CARVILLE:   Critics get paid to criticize. They get paid to sell newspapers. They get paid to write outrageous flowery sentences. They don't necessarily get paid to be right. Ever since last June, we've been waiting for something the Washington Post TV critic Tom Shales wrote about CROSSFIRE. Our quote of the day, quote, "That show," talking about us at CROSSFIRE, "despite a recent infusion of hype and overproduction, seems to be making a slow loop to the grave yard,"... 
SHALES:   Lope. 
CARVILLE:   ... "lope, slow lope to the graveyard." Thank you. Mr. Shales, welcome to graveyard. Along with him is Jim Miller. We're talking television, politics and more. 
CARLSON:   Now Tom Shales, you regret writing something... ... that ludicrous, don't you? 
SHALES:   Well, the lope is -- maybe lope was the wrong word. Meander, a sort of wandering meander to the graveyard. 
CARLSON:   Really. Because there's -- I... 
SHALES:   No, no, I'm -- I don't know when I wrote that. I'm not even sure I did. 
CARLSON:   No, no but honestly. I mean, this is the beauty of television criticism is you rarely have to face up to the people that you skewer, but now that you do, wondering if you'll apologize in the most abject possible way? 
SHALES:   Oh, God, no. But I'm sure it was taken out of context. That's what all of your political guests say, isn't it? 
CARLSON:   Yes, but it's a lie. 
SHALES:   What, a slow lope to the graveyard. I guess that was my impression at the time. I wasn't enamored of this idea of having -- and please, don't be offended -- a studio audience, but it seems to be working. And you know, when you got Jesse Ventura complaining about a lack of dignity, then anything goes. I mean, listen there is nothing to complain about with this show, I guess. 
CARVILLE:   Well, maybe Sam Fise (ph), our executive producer sitting up there. Would you give him any advice if there was something we could avoid the graveyard for a couple of years? 
SHALES:   No, more sex, I guess. 
CARVILLE:   We're all for tht. 
CARLSON:   Now, Jim, you were in politics for a long time. You'd put the guys you worked for on the show, wouldn't you? 
MILLER:   Yes, we had talked about that. It think it's a smart move. I also think if you look back, the people that have come on the show who have done a really good job, it stays with them forever. I mean, people remember it, you know, years and years later. Some of the people we talked to in the book, you know, who came on and hosted, or have been lampooned and they came on to ridicule the cast members, they say it got them a lot of psychic income and a lot of support throughout the... 
CARVILLE:   There was -- I saw somewhere -- I don't know if this true or not, but someone made the assertion that it was poll or survey taken and it said more young people got their politician information from "Saturday Night Live" than any other source. Is that... 
MILLER:   There's some people who said to us during the course of the book that they get their news form Weekend Update, which is... 
SHALES:   Well, yes... So does Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon gets his news from reading the jokes setups. He said he hadn't been reading newspapers up until then. 
CARLSON:   Now Tom Shales, you're on book tour, along with Jim Miller. Your book is going great. Apparently it's been on the New York Times best seller list. If not, should be. Great book. 
SHALES:   It is. 
CARLSON:   But your mad about being on a book tour, according to a piece you wrote for electronic media last week. Here's what you wrote. "How demeaning to have to suck up to a pea-brain publicist or agent or other gatekeeper to get an audience with some semi-talented geek whom fate has quixotically (ph) selected for stardom." And I'm wondering, if this doesn't play into the stereotype of television critics as kind of sad, angry, Walter Mitty type figures who are angry at the people they cover because they can't be among them. 
MILLER:   Well, that's a pretty accurate portrayal. 
SHALES:   No, I don't know. Who was I talking about? 
CARLSON:   You were talking about the people whose shows you went on to sell your book. 
SHALES:   No, I wasn't talking about all of them. 
CARLSON:   Who were you talking about specifically? Bill O'Reilly, is that who you were talking about? 
SHALES:   Yes, I think was a column about going on the O'Reilly Show. 
CARLSON:   What do you think of the O'Reilly Show? 
SHALES:   I don't know what that applause means. I hope it's applause for me for being brave enough to go on the show. 
CARVILLE:   Let me go back. I did a book tour -- in this much to what you said, quite frankly. I mean, I felt that way sometimes because it would be the same questions over and over. But that's out of necessity. Tell us, and they always ask authors on here, because you come on here and we give you a chance. I want both of you to tell us why -- what is it in this book that you think people will find interesting and fascinating. What is it that they'll learn? 
MILLER:   For me, it's the disparity of what people saw on camera and what was happening off camera. It really -- it's beyond the history of the show. It's cultural anthropology. It's about the sex, drugs, rock and roll in the '70s and then the way this show matured, and the way the country changed. And a lot of it, you know, was mirrored on "Saturday Night Live". But I couldn't believe how open people were with us, talking about, you know, all of their problems leading up to the time the show goes on, the ability to get their acts together for an hour and a half, and then you know, afterwards. 
CARVILLE:   Tom, you've been a brave guest. Tell us and tell the viewers out there what they'll find interesting and fascinating about this book above and beyond what Jim said. 
SHALES:   Well, it's a celebration of the show. It's a celebration of laughing at ourselves, and our political leaders.  And we can say it's very entertaining because the words are mostly other people's. They're all of the peole who have been on the show over the years and are still alive who we talked to. And I just think peole will have a damned good time with it. I'm still worried about that quote, though. I don't know what I was talking about. 
CARLSON:   Probably talking about Bill O'Reilly, I imagine. 
SHALES:   That must be it, that must be it. 
CARLSON:   OK, you don't have to apologize. Ladies and gentlemen, Tom Shales, Jim Miller... 
CARVILLE:   Thank you all very much. You're both very brave to come on this show. Thank you. 
CARLSON:   ... thank you both very much. Thank you.    Next from the political graveyard, "Fireback." Our viewers weigh in on the phony funeral in Minnesota and on Halloween and James Carville's costume -- is it permanent? We'll be right back. 
ANNOUNCER:   If you'd like to Fireback at Crossfire, e-mail us at Crossfire@CNN.com. Make sure to include your name and home town.
