CARVILLE:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're coming to you live from the George Washington University in Foggy Bottom in beautiful downtown Washington, D.C. And coming to you live from New York since 1975, it's "Saturday Night Live." The show has made fun of every president from Gerald Ford to George W. Bush, and who's who of politicians have joked their way across the stage as guest hosts. A new book about the show "Live From New York: An Uncensored History of Saturday Live," has just been put out by the Washington Post TV critic Tom Shales and co-author Jim Miller. Now they're ready to step into the CROSSFIRE. 
CARLSON:   Hello. 
CARVILLE:   Mr. Shales, nice seeing you, sir. 
SHALES:   Nice to see you. 
CARVILLE:   You bet. 
CARLSON:   Now Tom Shales, I want to play quickly a clip from "Saturday Night Live" that everyone will recognize. This is "Saturday Night Live's" take on the 2000 presidential debates. 
GORE:   Rather than squander the surplus on a risky tax cut for the wealthy, I would put it in what I call a lock box. 
BUSH:   But I'll you this, don't mess with Texas. 
GORE:   The lock box would be doused only for Social Security and Medicare. It would have two different locks. 
BUSH:   Pass. 
GORE:   The lock box would also be camouflage. 
BUSH:   I'm not going to pronounce any other names tonight because I don't believe that's in our national interest. Strategery (ph). 
GORE:   Lock box. 
CARLSON:   Now that had -- that sketch had a bit effect on politics in real life. Apparently Gore staff had him watch it, and it kind of rattled him in the next debate. You know the story. My question to you is, politicians appear to take the show pretty seriously. Why? 
SHALES:   Well, because a lot of people watch it. There isn't that much political coverage on TV anymore. Ralph Nader complains in our book that, you know, to find out much about the campaigns, you have to watch satire shows and comedy shows. Or politicians say, have to go on these shows too. There is very little coverage, I think of the upcoming elections. I've noticed on TV there's a million ads, but not coverage. 
CARLSON:   Why would, if you were in control of a political candidate, why would you allow him to go on "Saturday Night Live?" 
SHALES:   Because then they look like good sports. I mean this tradition goes all the way back to Gerald Ford -- I'm losing my voice -- all of the way back to Gerald Ford, who was president when they started. And they picked on him mercilessly -- Chevy Chase, tumbling down stairs and things like that. And Gerald Ford embraced them and came on the show. And everybody said, "Gee, what a good sport Gerald Ford is." It worked for him, and it's worked for other presidents since. 
CARVILLE:   Now Jim, you've actually worked for politicians -- Senator Jackson and Senator Baker for both sides of the political aisle. To go back to one of the things that Tucker was saying, would you advise a politician today to -- say a John Kerry, who may -- John Edward -- say, they're thinking about running for president on the Democratic side. Would you advise them to go on Saturday Live? 
MILLER:   Absolutely. I mean, look at McCain last week. He came on. He was wearing jeans. He was very comfortable. People loved him. It gives you an opportunity to show your other side. I think most of the time, you're in, you know, suits and you're sitting there forced to do 20 second sound bites. You go on "Saturday Night Live", I mean like Giuliani did, you can really have fun. And people get to see this really comical side to you. And I think engenders people to you a lot. 
SHALES:   I wouldn't be surprised to see Gore on the show this year. 
CARVILLE:   Really? You think particularly for Gore, it would be kind of a helpful thing? 
SHAKES:   I think it would be a brilliant move, don't you? 
CARVILLE:   Let me show both of you, and then I want to get your reaction to something that Alec Baldwin said about "Saturday Night Live". 
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:   Leave that to someone else. 
CARVILLE:   "The show is less politically wicked than it used to be. Now they make fun of people, but they don't make fun of people that make a political statement at the same time. It doesn't seem to be as biting and satirical," whatever. "They should be having a field day with those two huge   whores (ph) that we have in there now, Cheney and Bush. God, you could just be cooking them and eating them every week," Alec Baldwin. Do you think the show has lost its bite or what? 
SHALES:   No. Their first goal is to be funny, not to bite anybody. And they're not trying to score any political points particularly. They're trying to be evenhanded. You know, was it meaner in the old days? I don't think so. I think they've always gone not for the jugular, but maybe just below. 
MILLER:   What they really do better than anybody else, is they brand politicians in a way that politicians can't brand themselves. When Phil Hartman did tht campaign stop at the McDonalds, when he was playing Clinton and he walked in and started eating everybody's hamburgers and drinking everybody's shakes and then the Secret Service said, "You know, Mrs. Clinton said we really aren't supposed to stop by fast food restaurants." "We really shouldn't tell her then." Clinton looks over and says, "There's a lot of things we're not going to tell Mrs. Clinton." That just like cemented an image of Clinton in the public's mind early on, that that's like toothpaste out of the tube. 
CARLSON:   Which was completely accurate, I mean, as it turned out. 
MILLER:   Well, he had that going for him. 
CARLSON:   OK. Well, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be back in a second. Still to come our "Fireback" segment. For some reason, one of our hosts reminds many viewers of a certain frightening holiday that's coming up tomorrow. Also, our "Quote of the Day." It's a cruel attack on one of cable televisions most respected and longest lived political shows. Who could possibly be so mean spirited ?  We'll answer that question. We'll be right back.
