ANNOUNCER:   CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the 
CROSSFIRE:   Can any Democrat beat George W. Bush? 
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN  , PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:   I believe if we nominate a candidate like myself... 
ANNOUNCER:   The president's mother says, they're a pretty sorry group. What will the voters think? Today on CROSSFIRE.    Live from the George Washington University. 
CARLSON:   Welcome. I'm Tucker Carlson on the right. Today, we're talking about the Democratic Party's oversized and underwhelming crowd of increasingly desperate presidential candidates. 
CARVILLE:   I'm James Carville on the left. And if you really want to see a presidential candidate whose chances get smaller every with passing day, check out who is running on the Republican ticket. We'll get to the presidential race right after the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." If you want to know why the Bush administration is having such a hard time finding Saddam Hussein's supposed weapons of mass destruction, read Bob Drogin's piece in this week "New Republic" magazine. Drogin's 3,900-word article looks closely at the possible weapons, germs and chemical, aluminum tubes and whatever the Bush administration claimed Iraq had and shows how postwar inspections have debunked the claims. Drogin writes that, when CIA's top weapons searcher David Kay was asked directly if U.N. sanctions had stymied Saddam's ability to produce weapons of mass destruction, Kay replied -- quote -- "I think, by and large, that's close to where we are now" -- unquote. In short, the only smoking guns found in Iraq point to the Bush administration's inability to tell the truth. 
CARLSON:   Look, I think -- and I've said on this show -- that I think it's a big deal that quantities of WMD have not been found in Iraq. But the idea that the Bush administration was the only group who believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction is a lie. As you know, there was bipartisan agreement that he had these weapons. And if it turns out Bush was wrong, everyone was wrong. 
CARVILLE:   No. But the problem is, is, no one went to war over it. And you think something, but before you go to war and put the credibility of the United States on the line and the American lives on the line in this occupation we have, Tucker, you ought to more than think that they might have them. There have to be some degree 
CARLSON:   There was no debate about it. There was no disagreement. 
CARVILLE:   People just thought it. You're putting people's lives, you're putting our prestige on the line. 
CARLSON:   OK. Careful readers of "The New York Times" have been worried for some time about the state of columnist Paul Krugman's grip on reality. Week after week, Krugman fulminates against the Bush administration, growing angrier and angrier, until his hatred threatens to blossom into insanity. Well, today it finally happened. Krugman begins with a defense of Mahathir Mohamad, the Malaysian prime minister who declared last week that -- quote -- "The Jews run this world by proxy." According to Krugman, anti-Semitic statements like this are in fact America's fault, the result of -- quote -- "America's war in Iraq and its unconditional support of Ariel Sharon," the prime minister of Israel. The column gets crazier from there. It winds up this way. Again -- quote -- "Donald Rumsfeld has gone a long way toward confirming the Muslim world's worst fears." Huh? Donald Rumsfeld somehow convinced the Islamic world that 9/11 was an Israeli plot, that Jews secretly control the world? Apparently, that's the point of the column. Apparently, Paul Krugman badly needs a long vacation. We hope he gets it very soon. 
CARVILLE:   I find this amazing, because I actually have Mr. Krugman's column here. And let me see what he says about it. I'm quoting Krugman. "Indeed, these remarks were inexcusable" -- unquote. 
CARLSON:   No, no, but keep going, James, to the part where he's explains that he's playing to his domestic constituency and he was forced to this by the Bush administration. 
CARVILLE:   Let me repeat to you.    The first sentence of the second paragraph: "Indeed, these remarks were inexcusable" -- unquote. 
CARLSON:   James, you're missing it.    He's blaming Donald Rumsfeld for Malaysian anti- Semitism. It's insane. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman Zach Wamp is a Republican from Tennessee. He's a leader of the compassionate conservative wing of the Republican Party and a fighter for tolerance, a man who embodies all the principles of modern conservatism. Now he's reaching out to gay Americans in an Associated Press article, calling homosexuality -- quote -- "a sin" -- quote -- "a sickness" and -- quote -- "unnatural." He calls for homosexuals to change their behavior and change their ways. Congressman Wamp, there is someone who is sick. And it's not homosexuals. It's you and the vast number of people in your political party who agree with you and tolerate this stupidity and bigotry. 
CARLSON:   Really? Because, actually, I think the bigotry is coming from you. Zach Wamp gets those views from the New Testament. He is a believing Christian. Those are his religious beliefs. He's not condemning gays. 
CARVILLE:   He's not condemning, no. 
CARLSON:   So why are you attacking the man's religious beliefs?  
CARVILLE:   He says they're unnatural, that they live in sin. I'm telling you... 
CARLSON:   You may not agree. 
CARVILLE:   If your religious views -- if your religious views say that you call people unnatural, that they're sinful, that they don't have that -- I'm sorry. You can't hide under that. 
CARLSON:   No, no, no, wait a second, James. Wait a second. Wait a second. 
CARVILLE:   I don't believe in that at all. 
CARLSON:   Wait a second. I know you don't believe it. And I may not believe it either. But the fact is, a lot of Americans and a lot of evangelical Christians believe that homosexual acts are wrong. You're not a bigot for believing that. 
CARVILLE:   Again, he's 
CARLSON:   That's outrageous. 
CARVILLE:   I'm telling you, when you tell people what they do is unnatural, I'm telling you that that's not the way to reach out to people. 
CARLSON:   It may not be. You may be right. 
CARVILLE:   It's not the way that America ought to be. 
CARLSON:   Well, that -- you may be right. But it doesn't mean he is a bigot. 
CARVILLE:   No. I understand that he's the hero of modern conservatism. 
CARLSON:   Not a hero. It's his religious beliefs, which I respect and you don't.    Well, CBS Entertainment today announced that it will be airing a two-part miniseries based on the life of former President Bill Clinton. Called "The Clintons," the program will not touch on the extended economic recovery that shadowed the Clinton administration. In fact, it won't even mention the economy or Mr. Clinton's role in restoring it. Instead, the show will focus on Clinton's personal foibles, his attitudes about women, the abusive way he treated subordinates, his complicated marriage. Incidentally, the actress who plays Hillary Clinton in the series is none other than Newt Gingrich's wife. 
CARVILLE:   I'm just one of these people that believe that you ought to see something before you attack it. 
CARLSON:   I knew you were going to -- I knew you were going to say -- I knew you were going to -- I knew you were going to that. 
CARVILLE:   It's just a flaw of mine. You always attack something you haven't seen. It's like people that attack books they haven't read. After you see... 
CARLSON:   You are so predictable, James. Look... 
CARVILLE:   I agree. I think that, before you attack something, you ought to read it. Before you attack a movie 
CARLSON:   "The New York Times," "The New York Times," as you know...    You're not defending it, James. 
CARVILLE:   You should read Krugman's column before you attack it. 
CARLSON:   Unfortunately, I read it three times. And I think it's insane. 
CARVILLE:   Quote: "Indeed, these remarks were inexcusable" 
CARLSON:   There we go. I'm sorry to have to interrupt Paul Krugman for some reality. The race for president may or may not go through the state of Iowa, but it certainly is heating up. Will any of the Democrats find a way to convince the public they can do a better job running the country than the current president, George Bush? We'll debate it. We'll be right back.
