CARLSON:   Welcome back. The Emmy awards have come and gone. "Friends," "West Wing," NBC and HBO were the big winners. But is the viewing public still the big loser?  Joining us from Los Angeles to talk about the vast wasteland is newly   CROSSFIRE culture editor, Mo Rocca, who, in his day job, is a correspondent for "The Daily Show" on Comedy Central. 
CARVILLE:   Hey, Mo. 
ROCCA:   How are you doing? 
CARVILLE:   The way they've done so many damn Iraq shows here, I might call you Mo Iraqa (ph). 
ROCCA:   Well, that sounds great. 
CARVILLE:   You like that? Mo Iraqa (ph), the man who   on everything. You were at the Emmys last night. What was it like? What happened? And I understand your show was nominated and they stiffed you. 
ROCCA:   Well, that's right. But, you know what, Californians really relaxed me. I had a mud bath this morning. I'm feeling really great. So I'm not really upset about it. No, it was a very star-studded heady exciting affair. At one point I was standing behind Beau Bridges at a water fountain. So that was exciting. And then later on, on the way to the governor's ball, I bumped into Dr. Phil's wife and she smiled at me. It was very exciting. 
CARVILLE:   You had a banner night. 
ROCCA:   Yes, and I didn't meet any of the "Friends." The "Friends" were using a separate water fountain. 
CARLSON:   Now, Mo, the other big television event of the weekend, of course, was the Miss America pageant, something we've been talking about on CROSSFIRE. I'm wondering -- it seems a little outdated. I'm wondering if Miss America ought to just drop the pretense, go all nude and strive for pay-per-view? 
MOCCA:   Look, let's pull back here for a minute. This was a big year for Miss America. And I think it's absolutely appropriate that Erika Harold, the winner, is from Illinois, the land of Lincoln. Because it's Lincoln who said, in the Lincoln-Douglas debates, that a house divided against itself cannot stand. And I think after the whole scandal with the two Miss North Carolinas that was an incident that really threatened to tear that organization asunder. And it's really -- the event has moved through that and it's stronger now. And I think Erika Harold is a great role model. 
CARLSON:   It's funny, I didn't catch the president strains of American history in the program. How do you think the swimsuit competition went? 
ROCCA:   The fitness competition, you mean? 
CARLSON:   Yes, the fitness competition. 
ROCCA:   So let's move into the 21st century now, please, thank you. I think it was great. I think it was great. And I think the aria from Carmen was terrific that Ms. Harold -- or Miss America, I should say -- delivered. And I think she's going to be a credit to Harvard Law School. Her platform is anti-bullying, so I think that's going to resonate with a lot of victims that are at Harvard Law. 
CARVILLE:   I can tell you, Mo, we have now plowed new ground here in CROSSFIRE. We've compared the Miss America Pageant with the civil war. So nobody tell us we're not deep into American history, right? 
ROCCA:   Right, right. And, you know Lincoln was a great man, but he was very untelegenic. And I think that what Ms. Harold can bring to the table is something that's going to be a lot more friendly. 
CARVILLE:   I guarantee you, I bet if she ever wears a hat it's better looking than that damn stove pipe he had. 
ROCCA:   Right. Right. Right. 
CARLSON:   Now speaking of viewer TV ready, TV friendly, "The American Candidate"... 
ROCCA:   Wonderful. 
CARLSON:   ... a show that will field an actual presidential candidate. Wondering if this might not be the in that Al Gore has been looking for to resurrect his political career? 
ROCCA:   Listen, it could well be. Listen, message to you folks inside the beltway, this show is a great idea. They're going to field over 100 candidates over a two-year period through the most democratic   democratic medium, which is television. Viewers will be able to decide. Now, it's not a perfect system because there is a problem. And it's called the Constitution, which mandates candidates have to be at least 35 years old. I'm afraid that the show might skew too old for the demographic, the desirable demographic if everyone is 35 and older. I mean we all know it's very difficult to find 35-year-olds with acceptable midriffs. So it might not play that well. 
CARLSON:   But isn't there another problem? 
CARVILLE:   Will there be a fitness competition element to this thing? 
ROCCA:   I think there should be. Health is very important. Look what's happening with Vice President Cheney, with all due respect. If he had been put through the fitness competition, we might not be so worried. 
CARVILLE:   Maybe we ought to insist he come aboard in a bathing suit. 
CARLSON:   Wait a second, Mo. The last time a candidate for president was chosen on a television show, you had Ross Perot, which was obviously a dangerous and kind of scary thing. Do you think it's possible we could get another Ross Perot-type character out of this? 
ROCCA:   I think what we'll get a much better looking Ross Perot, which I think -- I'm not saying that Ross Perot is not a good looking man. I mean, you know... 
CARVILLE:   If you like that ear thing. 
ROCCA:   I'm sorry, what's that? Right. Right. 
CARVILLE:   He's got an ear thing, doesn't he? 
ROCCA:   No, it's a nice character trait. No, Calvin Coolidge had big ears, I think. If I remember that. 
CARVILLE:   But don't you think the country is looking for, as opposed to a better looking Ross Perot, a more saner Ross Perot? 
ROCCA:   Well, no. I think it's great. A mental health competition would be great. 
CARLSON:   And very quickly, Mo, we're out of time. But tell us really quick, Senator Fred Thompson of Tennessee is moving back to Hollywood. He is going to be on "Law & Order." Do you think he'll be influential there or in the Senate? 
ROCCA:   Look, I loved Fred Thomson in "In the Line of Fire." I loved him in the Senate Finance Committee and I'm going to love him in "Law & Order." I think if you're going to have a sitting Tennessee senator on "Law & Order," you're going to want Fred Thompson. Because Bill Frist is a good man, a great surgeon, but he just does not have the acting chops. Yeah. He should be a doctor. He should not play one on TV. 
CARLSON:   Amen. Mo Rocca, CROSSFIRE cultural correspondent. 
CARVILLE:   Thank you, Mo. You're the best. 
CARLSON:   Next, in our fireback segment, defenders of Miss America and obesity speak out with one voice. We'll be right back.
