CARLSON:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Despite Al Gore's barking today, President Bush remains focused on getting Congress and the U.N. to hold Iraq and Saddam Hussein to account. Does this mean the U.S. is headed for war? In the CROSSFIRE tonight, Ohio Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman, let me show you that Vice President Gore brought up something that was brought up here on CROSSFIRE some time ago in his speech today concerning the timing of this. I want to show you what he said and then I have a question for you, sir. 
GORE:   Now the timing of this sudden burst of urgency to immediately take up this new cause as America's new top priority, displacing our former top priority, the war against Osama bin Laden, was explained by -- innocently, I believe -- by the White House chief of staff in his now well-known statement, and I quote, "From an advertising point of view, you don't launch a new product line until after labor day." 
CARVILLE:   This is what I have asked again and again. What is the piece of information that we have right now that we didn't have, say, in January that makes this thing so imperative of why we can't do it next January? What is the one piece of information that has come to our attention that says, we got to act this time? 
PENCE:   That's a fair question, James, and I don't know the answer to that. It might be a little bit above my pay grade. But what I'll tell you is I truly believe, and I believe this president believes and his national security team has accepted, that the next step in the war on terrorism is to confront Saddam Hussein and his regime once and for all. And let me say, with all due respect to the former vice president, this president's character was tested on September 11. And the American people, Republicans, Democrats and independents, saw that character in full display and found it not wanting. And the very suggestion that this president would send American fighting men and women into harm's way for some political advantage I think is deeply offensive. 
CARVILLE:   Well, actually, Abraham Lincoln did and his character was tested. He demanded his generals fight wars before the election of 1864 so he would win. So what I'm saying is... 
PENCE:   But, James, they were in a war at the time. 
CARVILLE:   But it's a natural -- it's a natural thing...    We're really in a war right now against al Qaeda. And we know that al Qaeda has global reach. We know they can strike us. They already did. But what people are saying is, and perhaps a little skepticism, is really what is -- why now? And no one can answer. Well, gee, we did a -- yeah and every American, every Democrat, one, I think, supports the war against al Qaeda. And that is -- and I think the vice president's point was a very good one. We've got to finish the job we got at hand here before we start taking up other things. So... 
CARLSON:   Congressman Kucinich, let me ask you this. Critics of the idea of war have said from the beginning, this war against Iraq would incite Muslims in the region to hate the United States, it would cause chaos throughout the gulf region. We learned today, however, that Saudi Arabia, Jordan,   formerly Qatar, are all on board with the president. Now what do they know that you don't know that's led them to support Bush's plans for Iraq whereas you don't? 
KUCINICH:   Well, first of all, I'll say that the United States should participate with the international community. And that may or may not meet with agreement with the rest of the region. You know the United States should not work unilaterally. Now that's the first principle here. 
CARLSON:   They're not. I mean, Israel and the four countries I've mentioned, Turkey... 
KUCINICH:   And there are states in the Gulf who rely on the United States for various types of aid. That's a matter of fact. 
CARLSON:   Is it blackmail? 
KUCINICH:   I wouldn't use the world blackmail. I would say that the United States has the ability to persuade many nations in the world because of its power. At the same time, we have to be careful of the direction we take it. And I'm saying, let's not take the world towards war. Let's find a way to resolve this matter in Iraq, to getting U.N. inspectors in there, and find out if they have weapons of mass destruction. If they have any weapons, let's destroy them. Let's bring Iraq back in the world community. 
PENCE:   You were in Congress at the time more than I have been on here 20 months. But isn't that what we've been doing since 1991? Saddam Hussein understands force or the threat of force. 
KUCINICH:   What we're doing here is we're changing the subject of a serious election that people were focused on losing their 401Ks, losing their investment in the stock market. Markets tanking today. Losing -- you know not having health insurance. Not having... 
CARLSON:   Democratic   to Republican issues. 
KUCINICH:   What I'm saying is that people were focused on those economic issues and that could have had an impact on the elections. Now all of a sudden we're talking about war. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman, we'll give you a chance before we break, because a lot has been going on. Just offer us an observation on what he said. 
PENCE:   Well, once again, I believe that the next logical step in the war on terrorism is to confront Saddam Hussein once and for all. And, James, to suggest that there is no evidence -- I'll grant Dennis the point that we don't have proof. We're not beyond a reasonable doubt that Saddam Hussein and his regime has been behind a decades- long war of revenge against the United States of America using surrogate terrorist organizations to kill Americans and to kill Jews.  We don't have proof of that, but there is an enormous amount of evidence to suggest that at the very core, world wide terrorism are the resources and the intelligence and the malevolence that is Saddam Hussein. 
CARLSON:   Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it... 
KUCINICH:   Where is -- you don't have proof. How can you go to war against a nation? 
CARLSON:   Congressman, thanks. Congressman Kucinich -- thank you both very much for joining us. Coming up soon, how about some broccoli bits with your potato chips? We'll   on the latest trends in the food business, including the ludicrous notion that government can prevent people from becoming fat. Later, the lingering question from TV's big night. Can the Bush administration possibly win as many Emmys as "The West Wing?" And next, a politician who has a tough act to follow. He gets a new fashion accessory and our quote of the day. We'll be right back.
