PRESS:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Hold onto your wallets, Congress is back in session for the next five weeks only, and included among items of unfinished business: trade with China, a hike in the minimum wage, Republican tax cuts, and a patients' bill of rights. Will anything get done, or will it be another showdown, or maybe even another shut down? Two senators tell us tonight what's ahead, Republican Tim Hutchinson of Arkansas and Democrat Dick Durbin of Illinois -- Bob. 
NOVAK:   Senator Durbin, as advertised, we'll get to the congressional session, but before we do I want you to take a little look at this piece of tape here. Now, Senator, does that guy in a red T-shirt running around like a mad man -- does he look like a president to you? 
DURBIN:   He looks like a candidate who is ahead in the polls. And I tell you what, as I was with Joe Lieberman last night in Peoria with a huge crowd at the operating engineers hall, they really feel that there's been a change since the convention. 
NOVAK:   But that's your idea of the way presidential 
DURBIN:   Well, frankly, let me tell you, I think the American people like to reach out and touch the man running for president, and if he has to wear a certain costume -- you know, I can tell you that George W. Bush was in Naperville over the Labor Day parade in short sleeves, too. That's just part of Labor Day. 
NOVAK:   OK, Senator Durbin, let me -- let's get to the -- this congressional session. There's a lot of talk in the papers about a $23 billion difference in funding for schools and other things -- you know, that's chicken feed. Let's be honest. President Clinton wants to pass all the elements of the Gore agenda, patients' bill of rights, prescription drugs as he wants them, otherwise he will veto everything, and he knows that Congress -- the Republican Congress won't give him everything he wants. He wants to shut down the government and humiliate the Republicans again. Isn't that correct? 
DURBIN:   No, that was a Gingrich strategy, the shutdown, that frankly we don't want to see repeated here in Washington. I don't think anybody does, not the Republicans today nor the Democrats either. And I think we have a chance to pass the remaining 11 appropriation bills, but then quite honestly, there have been a lot of things said about a lot of people on both sides of the aisle supporting things like prescription drug benefits and minimum-wage increases. And let's have a chance, let's do it. If we can end up these five weeks... 
NOVAK:   You don't want to shut down the government? 
DURBIN:   Absolutely not. 
NOVAK:   I thought the president did. All right, now... 
DURBIN:   No, no, not at all. 
NOVAK:   Now, I just want to show you the conciliatory attitude from the White House, Jack Lew, the House budget director, you know? 
DURBIN:   Yes, nice fellow. 
NOVAK:   He was quoted the other day in "The Washington Post" talking about the Republicans as quote -- "They left town talking about big tax cuts and they come back talking about how to get the minimum wage done" -- end quote. Sticking the knife in -- is that the way that the -- to get the cooperation from the Republicans, to rub their nose in the dirt? 
DURBIN:   Well, far be it from me to suggest CROSSFIRE doesn't serve the milk of human kindness here as part of the format, and you can imagine that a few days before the election we're going to have some rhetoric back and forth, but you know, I think most people understand if we are going to get these spending bills enacted, which is our responsibility, and try to enact some of these larger measures, we need bipartisan cooperation. Speaker Hastert says we're going to... 
NOVAK:   Do you think that helps, that kind of rhetoric helps? 
DURBIN:   Speaker Hastert says he is going to finally take the hold off of increasing the minimum wage after over two years, that's good news, I hope that happens. 
PRESS:   Senator Hutchinson, I want to come back to the campaign for just a second or two, because -- and -- I think -- I'm suggesting that one of the problems that Governor Bush may have in selling this prescription-drug plan is his record in Texas, not so much to do with seniors, as to do with kids. I'd like you to listen to a new ad that started today, run by the Democratic National Committee -- a little bit of it. 
NARRATOR:   George W. Bush says he has a plan for children's health care. But why hasn't he done it in Texas? Texas ranks 49th out of 50 in providing health coverage to kids. It's so bad a federal judge ruled Texas must take immediate corrective action. 
PRESS:   A federal judge said he left 1.5 million low-income kids behind in Texas, Senator. He has got a real credibility problem on health care, doesn't he? 
HUTCHINSON:   No, the ad is a great distortion. It's part of the $30 million that the DNC is spending to distort Governor Bush's record. The lawsuit that... 
PRESS:   Let's just start... 
HUTCHINSON:   The lawsuit that they refer to in the ad, that -- the decision the judge made -- was filed against Governor Richards when she was governor. So if they want to talk about health care, they ought to talk about the 3,000 Americans per day that have entering the ranks of the uninsured under the Clinton-Gore administration, the one million per year that have been added to the ranks of the uninsured while Al Gore has been vice president. That's what -- if we want to talk about health care records, it's an overall national problem, not a problem in the state of Texas. It's part of the distortion that the DNC is continuing to... 
PRESS:   But Senator...    ... the fact is -- you're correct, the lawsuit was filed in 1993 when Governor Richards was governor. But there was a consent decree, which this judge was talking about, that came in 1996 when George Bush was governor. And the Federal Judge didn't talk about Richards. He talked about this governor and said there were federal actions money available that this governor did not take advantage of. And as a result, 1.5 million low-income kids in Texas didn't get the health care they deserve. It's this governor. Why doesn't he take the responsibility for it? The record stinks, doesn't it? 
HUTCHINSON:   I don't think it stinks at all. And I think as the debate goes on, you're going to find that his record in Texas is very good. But once again, why don't we talk about the Gore record and the Clinton record on health care in this country, in which over a million a year have gone into the ranks of the uninsured? They promised they were going to solve the problem of children's health care. They promised they were going to solve the problem of the uninsured. And they were going to reduce the numbers. And the record under Clinton-Gore has been just the opposite. The situation has gotten worse and worse. 
PRESS:   I thought the Congress rejected that Clinton plan. 
HUTCHINSON:   Yeah, thank goodness. 
NOVAK:   OK, we're out of time. Thank you very much, Senator Hutchinson, Senator Durbin. 
DURBIN:   Thank you. 
NOVAK:   And Bill Press will be back with a debate we've agreed on in closing comments.
