CARVILLE:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. The Democrats' big party is under way here in Boston. Right now, they're taking care of little things like the roll call, delegate credentials and the convention rules. The real fun starts tonight, when delegates hear speeches by Al Gore, former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. In the CROSSFIRE today are my dear friend and annoyingly -- annoying Congressman Rahm Emanuel, who is a Democrat from the great city of Chicago and a former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton, along with one of the few Republicans in town, Texas Congressman Henry Bonilla. 
NOVAK:   Congressman Emanuel, I want you to come out on the level, in the open, and say what Democrats have been telling me privately for years. 
EMANUEL:   Bob, shove it. 
NOVAK:   No, no.    No, no. We have got to be polite. We have got to be polite. That Teresa Heinz Kerry is a disaster waiting to happen, a train wreck waiting to happen and everybody is afraid to say anything because she's worth $1 billion and her husband is afraid of her, too. Is that correct? 
EMANUEL:   Wrong.  It's that simple. No, Teresa, I think she adds a real freshness and people actually warm to her because of actually her freshness. And I think the best thing in politics is to be not political at all. And she comes off exactly like that, like she speaks her mind. And I think she's a real asset, and has proven to be. 
NOVAK:   Well, a lot -- a lot of Democrats I have talked to say that, boy, the person they really like is Elizabeth Edwards. She is motherly. She's nice. And this woman is scary. Do you think it would look good for her to lie about what she said in public? She used the words un-American and she said, I never said it, because nobody has ever contradicted the billion-dollar babe. 
EMANUEL:   Two things real quickly. One, I don't know a one of us who haven't been in public service who would not have the courage to say what she said and didn't say it and bit our tongue to a reporter, but we did. And, No. 2, this election is not about Teresa Heinz. It's about the agenda and the plan that her husband is going to lay out. And he is going to lay out one that deals with ending the wage and benefit recession that Americans are experiencing right now. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman Bonilla, you're from -- represent a good bit of San Antonio and Bexar County which is very, very pro-military, a lot of retired military bases there. 
BONILLA:   You're familiar with it? 
CARVILLE:   Yes, sir. And I know you have a very good record when it comes to the U.S. military. How does it make you feel as pro-military Republican when the GAO issues a report and says the military is running $12.3 billion short. The Navy and Air Force have canceled training exercise. The Air Force can't afford the cost of body armor for them in combat areas. The Army is asking the Marines to help cover its contract with Halliburton. And the report found -- and I quote -- "We believe the deferral of these activities could result in a bow wave effect on the United States military." It must be killing your constituents, who a lot of them are good Republicans, to see this, the most anti-military administration in my lifetime. They have just almost completely wrecked the military. 
BONILLA:   Well, maybe you didn't hear. Just a few days ago, we approved a bill in the House of Representatives with the Senate that is going to take care of a lot of these things. I was in Iraq myself during the holiday season.    And we saw some of the shortfalls. But we're taking care of that. And, again, we are doing it in a bipartisan way, frankly. 
CARVILLE:   Why are we not trying to fill up a $12.3 billion hole when we have got kids out there that don't have -- why wasn't the planning for this war in this administration, why was Dumbs-feld sitting there rejecting people that said all this was going to happen? That's what military people are asking us right now. 
BONILLA:   Everybody likes to be a Monday-morning quarter. And we're treading new water. In the history of our country, we have never had the challenges that we now face with terrorism. And, quite frankly, we're a tasting a little bit of hell now, just like Israel has tasted for generations, just like Africans have tasted with a lot of the mass murder going on there, South America, dictatorships. Now we're facing a little bit of that now. And, quite frankly, for a lot of people to stand up and say, hey, I could have, should have done it a different way, you ought to be ashamed of yourself if you're trying to second guess    I think we're doing the best we can. 
EMANUEL:   There's nothing Monday-morning quarterback about having a plan to secure the peace. Everybody knew about it before the war. Nobody wanted to listen about it. 
BONILLA:   ... trying to act like if Kerry was in office that all the problems would be solved, I mean, hello. 
NOVAK:   Congressman Emanuel, the word it out. And I heard it from the Kerry people myself, not going to bash Bush. We're not going to be nasty. And so one of the speakers tonight was wandering around the FleetCenter this morning -- I saw her. And listen to one of the things she said. Let's listen to it. 
CLINTON:   I am so excited about replacing this administration. I think that the Bush-Cheney presidency has been bad for America and bad for the world. I cannot wait to see them leave the White House -- the sooner the better. I wish we could move the inauguration up a few months. 
NOVAK:   Isn't that just a pathetic example of not having anything to say positive? I just can't wait until they get out, like a little kid, do you think that is going to be a helpful speech tonight? 
BONILLA:   I hope she's measuring for the drapes already, because when you start to that you got it in a bag, they must mean you're in trouble. 
CARVILLE:   Rahm Emanuel. 
EMANUEL:   Well, first of all, as we all know, and you and I have run for office, four months is a long time in politics. But I would rather be us than you, because the fact of the matter is... 
NOVAK:   Let's talk about Hillary. 
EMANUEL:   I am going to talk about that. Is that this administration -- there is nothing negative when you lay out choices in politics. And this administration has got us in an endless occupation and in a jobless economy. And the entire four days are going to say, here's our plan for moving America forward and for laying out -- and to tell you the truth, I don't think there's anything negative of saying that we are going to end what we've witnessed, this rendezvous with mediocrity that's come out of this administration. 
NOVAK:   Rahm, she didn't even say that. All she said is, I just can't wait to let them get out. Isn't that a silly thing?    Isn't that silly? 
EMANUEL:   Bob, I will get you the transcript from tonight and you will see, it will be a positive speech. Don't worry about what she caught her on that little clip from this afternoon. Don't worry about it. 
NOVAK:   I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. 
CARVILLE:   He's so ginned up with hatred for Senator Clinton and Mrs. Heinz Kerry. 
NOVAK:   I don't hate anybody except you, James. 
EMANUEL:   But you know what? What you said about Teresa Heinz, I would just like to note, is what people also said about Hillary Clinton. She will be a drag on Bill Clinton in 19 -- it's what people all said. People are going to elect on whether you have an agenda and a plan for moving their lives forward, not whether you have a spouse that you like or don't like. And Teresa Heinz is a fresh, honest person. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman Bonilla, you are a fiscal conservative. And I know you have many fiscal conservatives in your district. And yet you have watched your administration, this Republican administration, preside over the biggest explosion in domestic spending since the Great Society. You've watched a $5.6 trillion surplus dissipate, turn into a deficit as far as the eyes can see. How do you explain to your fellow fiscal conservatives back in Bexar County in South Texas how this administration has so lost its bearings, it has been become fiscally irresponsible and it has not taken care of the military? This must be causing a great deal of consternation and pain among your Republican supporters in your district, sir? 
BONILLA:   Well, maybe that's why I have won most of my elections by over 20 points over the years. 
CARVILLE:   No, I know that you are. 
BONILLA:   But, nonetheless, we do have a plan now to try to cut the -- eliminate the deficit within a five-year period. Our bills this year, we're trying to approve less money than last year. So the fiscal conservative issue is 
CARVILLE:   Name me three programs that you all are cutting, that you all are doing away with. Eliminate three programs that this president has said, you know what, this is inefficient and we're going to do away with it. 
BONILLA:   Well, most importantly, we're cutting the dollars. And there's a bill that I'm in charge of myself on agriculture that's $67 million less than last year. The year before, it was almost $200 million less than the year before. So we are making some progress.    And the people back home are talking about how this is a positive thing. 
EMANUEL:   This is after $3 trillion of additional debt. And now they're figuring out how to cut $67 million.    I appreciate the effort. 
NOVAK:   I want to talk about the Democratic Convention. James doesn't want to talk about the Democratic Convention. And I don't blame him.    But one of the speakers tonight looking to the future with Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. And we don't have Walter Mondale, but we do have Al Gore. And I'm going to give you a sample of Al Gore's oratory earlier in the year. 
GORE:   Those are the feelings that were betrayed by this president!    He betrayed this country! He played on our fears! 
NOVAK:   Now, I want to ask you a question, Rahm, and I want you to surprise me by giving me a yes-or-no answer.    Would you like to see Al Gore repeat that performance tonight at the FleetCenter? 
EMANUEL:   I would like to see it just toned down just a notch. 
NOVAK:   A big notch. 
EMANUEL:   No, let me tell you. Let me say this. The fact is, this president, after 9/11, had carte blanche, Democratic, Republican, independent, every American and the world. And he spent it. And that's why we're the most isolated leader -- superpower in the world today. 
CARVILLE:   What made Al Gore a more popular vice president than Dick Cheney? What qualities did he have that Cheney doesn't have? 
NOVAK:   Hey, I like Dick Cheney better. 
BONILLA:   Maybe we could roll that tape again and maybe we can see the picture more clearly. 
CARVILLE:   Congressman, but why was he more popular? Why was he more popular than Dick Cheney? I'm just wondering. What qualities did Al Gore have that the American people, in their infinite wisdom saw, gave him higher ratings, higher approval than Dick Cheney gets? 
NOVAK:   You think that's a message that appeals to America? 
CARVILLE:   I'm just trying to find out, Bob. I'm trying to get some expertise here from you guys. 
BONILLA:   James, he lost the election in 2000. 
CARVILLE:   No, he won the election. He actually won it. 
EMANUEL:   We know for a fact that America -- as I said, and the American people know when I say we need allies in this war on terror. 
CARVILLE:   We have got to take a break. Next, in "Rapid Fire" is Jerry Springer a good poster boy for the Democratic Party? And in Iraq, it's a weapon that strikes fear across many party lines. Wolf Blitzer has details after this break.
