BEGALA:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We are coming to you live from the George Washington University in Foggy Bottom, Washington, D.C. You know, throughout CROSSFIRE's 20 years, one of our most frequent and most colorful guests has been Ohio Congressman James Traficant. 
NOVAK:   He is no longer in Congress. And after his sentencing next week, he may no longer be free. So here is our good-bye to a colorful guy who graced our set many times over the years. 
BEGALA:   Senator James Traficant joins us now from Youngstown, Ohio. Congressman, good to be with you. 
TRAFICANT:   How are you doing, George Washington? I've spoken over there. Tucker, good to see you. Tucker, I hope there's no Freudian slips, you know. I've had enough of that. So, behave yourself. 
CARLSON:   I bet you have. 
TRAFICANT:   That's another misrepresentation. 
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:   Let him finish now, Congressman, all right.    It's going to cost the Pentagon $650 million when we've already cut defense... 
TRAFICANT:   That's crap. Let me say this right here on CROSSFIRE. There's three things I may do. No. 1, go to the Democratic caucus and move to vacate their leadership and take them over by force myself. Now, second of all, Bob, if that doesn't work, I'll convene my own little caucus in a phone booth. Now, if that's not effective, I'll beg for some assignment from the Republicans. But I'm not going to let this stop me from voting for what I think is best for America. And I think we're too tied up with this party label. I didn't betray anybody. 
BEGALA:   Are you going to fight expulsion from the House? And if so, how?  
TRAFICANT:   Well, No. 1, there is a process that goes into this, Tucker or Paul or whoever the hell I'm speaking to here. 
BEGALA:   This is Paul. 
TRAFICANT:   Paul. But I know you are a big Clinton man, and I know that the DNC covered up an awful lot of that money that came from China. And I predict... 
BEGALA:   I'm just curious if you are going to fight expulsion and, if so, how? 
TRAFICANT:   I predict that they will eventually attack America. Believe me when I tell you that. 
BEGALA:   Are you going to fight expulsion from the House, Congressman? 
TRAFICANT:   Yes, I'm going to fight it and I have an opportunity to bring a defense. I think that the House members are very concerned, and I don't blame them. There's a lot of great members of Congress. But the truth of the matter is, Congress has become an advisory board. The people who run America are the treasury department, the IRS, the FBI and everybody is afraid to death of them. And I think an America that fears their government is not a good America for the future. And i think it's time to pass a flat 15- percent national sales tax, abolish the 16th Amendment, throw the IRS the hell out. It'll bring down costs, bring jobs back to America. Why should we born into... 
BEGALA:   I want to come back to the question of your expulsion. 
TRAFICANT:   I know that's what you want to do. But I'm the guest, you understand? 
CARLSON:   And, Congressman, I hope you'll promise right here and now to appear first on CROSSFIRE. We'll welcome you as the congressman from prison. 
TRAFICANT:   Well, No. 1, I'm not going to appear on CROSSFIRE again because you promised me 30 minutes. You lied to me just like a lot of these witnesses did. And, Tucker, you're all right with me. But, Paul... 
CARLSON:   We're part of the conspiracy too, Congressman. We sure appreciate having you on tonight. 
TRAFICANT:   ... you let that Chinese money in and endanger Americans. 
NOVAK:   I didn't call you any names. That wasn't... 
TRAFICANT:   You called me congressman, didn't you? 
NOVAK:   Oh, congressman... 
TRAFICANT:   That's not like you, Novak. 
BEGALA:   He started his career as a sheriff. He may well end it as an inmate. Representative James Traficant is our guest tonight in Youngstown, Ohio... 
TRAFICANT:   I don't like that comment. I don't like that comment at all. 
BEGALA:   Congressman, well, you have the perfect opportunity to respond to it. You've been convicted of 10 felonies. That's generally what we do with felons is we make them inmates, Congressman. 
TRAFICANT:   Yes, I know, but I'm not a felon yet until I'm sentenced. There's still an appeals process. And, quite frankly, everybody's jealous of me because I'm a fashion leader. 
CARLSON:   Let me ask you a question, your critics, you made reference to the 1983 case against you, the federal case against you, you were a sheriff in Youngstown, Ohio at the time. And one of your deputies testified at that time that you tried to get him to shoot you and make it look like a mob hit. Now, A, is that true; and, B is that an example of pre-trial theatrics of the kind your critics accuse you of engaging in now? 
TRAFICANT:   Well, if that were true -- let me ask you, if that were true, why didn't the government just go ahead and subpoena those people and bring them forward and use it? I don't want to get into the back old (ph) trial. They got beat. They got their ass kicked. They are very upset about it. They have a score to settle. And I'm going to face them again. And I'm just going to work with the speaker and work with both Democrat and Republican leaders. If the Democrats have a good idea, Bill, I'm going to support it. And if they don't, I'm going to tell them it sucks. That's the way it is. 
NOVAK:   All right. I'll have to beam myself up over that. Thank you very much. 
TRAFICANT:   Beam me up. I am not liked by the IRS. I am not liked by the FBI. I am not liked by the Treasury. I am not liked by the courts, and you know what? Quite frankly -- I don't give a damn. 
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:   So are you going to run again? 
CARLSON:   Well, that's a lot of enemies, and it raises the question, Mr. Traficant, and be honest here, what do you think the odds are... 
TRAFICANT:   What do you mean, be honest? I talk to you, and if you are going to talk to me, you're gonna be honest. What the hell are you saying be honest for? 
CARLSON:   I want you to be candid in response to the following question. 
TRAFICANT:   I've been candid enough, quite frankly. 
CARLSON:   What do you think the odd are that you'll wind up in an orange jumpsuit behind bars? You think you're going to go to jail? 
TRAFICANT:   Well, most of the TV and analysts say I have about a one in 20 million shot. 
CARLSON:   What do you think? 
TRAFICANT:   I'll tell you what I think. I think my shot is better than that, and all I know is this. I'm going to get in their face. I don't like them. I don't like what they've done to our country. I don't like how they scare people. I don't like how they intimidate people. Judges appointed to lifetime terms, scared to death of these people. These bureaucrats run America. And Congress better take America back for the American people. So I'm just a son of a truck driver and I'm going to try to kick their ass. That's candid as I can be. 
CARLSON:   Well, that is very candid. 
TRAFICANT:   That's candid. 
CARLSON:   And we wish you all the luck in your trial tomorrow, Congressman. Good luck. I hope you return to CROSSFIRE to tell us how it turns out. 
TRAFICANT:   Well, 10, 11 minutes isn't enough for me to return again. If you want me back, you better have me on for a half hour. 
CARLSON:   Call me at home, we'll talk about it. Thanks, Congressman. 
BEGALA:   ...congressman live from prison, any time he wants to come on CROSSFIRE, there's a home for you here, Jim. 
NOVAK:   I'll tell you what. He knows more about taxes and what's wrong with the tax system than you and all your leaders do. 
BEGALA:   Well, he'll be living off the taxpayers as he makes license plates the next few years. But we miss him. 
NOVAK:   Coming up, our viewers "Fireback" at former congressman Traficant and at us.
