NOVAK:   Two Pittsburgh area police departments are putting people in jail for being dirty mouths, for using bad language. Ever anxious to engage in the trivial, the American Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU, is going to court against the cops to protect dirty speech. Joining us from Fort Meyers, Florida, where we're interrupting his vacation and we thank him, is Vic Walczak, executive director of the ACLU's Pittsburgh chapter, and in New York is Mike Gallagher, nationally syndicated radio talk show host with the Salem Radio Network. Mr. Walczak, as I understand it, a woman was stopped in the Pittsburgh area. She mouthed off to cops, she was very nasty, and they took her to jail. What did she say to cause that, and what's wrong with saying you can't talk to a cop that way? 
WALCZAK:   Well, first of all, she wasn't exactly nasty. And let me give you quickly the facts of these two cases, which are fairly typical of what we've been seeing. In one case, a woman was stopped allegedly for running a stop sign. There is what is later recognized to be a computer error that says her license is suspended. They make her get out of the car, they put all her groceries on the street. She's trying to get home to her daughter who's sick, and she says just innocently, "man, am I having a BS day." That's the word she says. Boom, handcuffs, you're off to jail, charged with disorderly conduct, spent several hours in jail, has to hire a lawyer to beat the charges. Second case involves a young couple who are coming out of a grocery store. They start -- they step into the crosswalk, and a police car comes flying through the intersection. They have to jump back, and she yells, "it's a crosswalk," and then uses the street language for anal orifice. And the cop turns around, tracks him down in a parking lot and starts screaming at them, how dare these folks swear at him, how dare they call him this. Boom, they land in jail, they are charged with disorderly conduct. Again, all the charges are dismissed. Question is, do we want our nation's police officers, who have a lot to do in protecting us against crime and fighting against terrorism, do we want them playing miss manners? Do we want them being the naughty language police? And the answer is no. 
BEGALA:   Let me bring you into this -- I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Walczak -- but I want to bring Mr. Gallagher into this. Not much I like about George W. Bush, but here's one thing. He has a filthy mouth. And I like that in my politicians. He cussed me out personally once... 
GALLAGHER:   You deserved it.  
BEGALA:   ... and he was caught on tape one time using the very phrase about anal orifices -- I'm now not allowed to use this without getting fired. Let me play that tape for you. You take a listen. He was talking about a reporter for "The New York Times." Listen to our president. 
BUSH:   There's Adam Clymer, a major league  . 
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:   Yeah, big time. 
BEGALA:   The only thing I don't like about that is Cheney just said, "yeah, big time." He should have said, "damn straight, boss." 
GALLAGHER:   Yeah, right. Paul, what a cheap stunt to take a clip from President Bush that you guys on the left just rallied around and said, oh, look, he's got a dirty mouth just like us. I mean, first of all, in response to what -- I mean, in response to what Vic said, the ACLU never misses a chance. They are a cop- hating organization that salivates at the opportunity to go ripping into our nation's law enforcement community. I'm sure that they are foaming at the mouth over the heat that cops are taking right now over these celebrated video incidents. The fact is, no American could debate that as you walk through today's parks, or walk through the shopping mall, the language in America right now is filthy, is offensive, and for crying out loud, if a cop can't arrest some foul-mouth trash-talking punk from getting in their face and chewing him out... 
BEGALA:   You're talking about our president that way? Come on now. 
GALLAGHER:   ... for using poor language -- he wasn't talking to a cop. He was talking to you, he was talking to you, Paul, not a cop. 
NOVAK:   Mr. Walczak, you, working with a bunch of weenies as you do at the ACLU, probably don't have much experience with foul mouths. But I can understand what the cops go through, because I have to deal with Begala and Carville. And I'd like you to listen to a little -- just a little small selection of what I have to put up with. Would you listen? 
BEGALA:   We're going to kick a little right-wing ass. 
CARVILLE:   When these sons of bitches just knocked down two of our buildings. 
BEGALA:     fired my ass at MSNBC. 
CARVILLE:   If there is a completely neutral person, I don't want to know the son of a bitch. 
BEGALA:   Bush is going to sign a strong Democratic bill, and that makes you look like a schmuck, doesn't it? 
NOVAK:   Isn't that the decline of values in language that is under -- that is poisoning America? 
WALCZAK:   Look, nor the ACLU nor I necessarily condones profane speech. I'm trying to raise children, and I'm working to discourage them from using it. But it's different than when you pass a law that says that the police can throw you in jail simply because you utter a profanity. And a couple of points that Mike makes -- one, the ACLU does not hate the police. I've personally represented more than 20 police officers. When police officers' rights are violated, including their free speech rights, the ACLU is the first to come to their aid. 
GALLAGHER:   Well, then, if you're represented 20 police officers, how many people have you represented who have sued the police? I bet it's a lot more than that. 
WALCZAK:   It is a lot more than that, to be honest. 
BEGALA:   Let me get you back on the point of -- I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Walczak. Let me get back to the point of cursing. I disagree with Mr. Walczak on this, though, Mike Gallagher. He said nobody condones cursing -- you're looking at him. I condone it. I think it's great. 
GALLAGHER:   I know. You guys... 
BEGALA:   Let me suggest this. If there are teenagers watching, I'm encouraging you to take up cursing. Here's why. It won't kill you like cigarettes. Kids want to rebel, OK? Cursing doesn't kill you like cigarettes; it doesn't rot your brain like drugs and alcohol; it doesn't scar you permanently like tattoos; it doesn't hurt like a body piercing, and it pisses off grown-ups. So, kids, start cussing today. It's the most acceptable form of youthful rebellion. 
GALLAGHER:   Nice. As a parent of teenagers, I would point out, and I would implore every teenager in America who may be watching this, as a parent of a couple of twin boys who are 19, don't listen to Begala. He learned at the knee of the master. We all know that the leftists like Clinton and Carville and Begala and the ACLU... 
BEGALA:     Clinton, believe me. 
GALLAGHER:   ... they're a bunch of trash talkers who don't mind dirty words. Do the right thing, kids. Refrain from the nasty language and don't listen to this Begala. He's an evil influence. 
BEGALA:   Or President George W. Bush, who...  
NOVAK:   I don't want to be on his side, but wouldn't you say that if he cursed, that would be the least sinful thing that Bill Clinton ever did? 
GALLAGHER:   Thank you. Exactly. I wish that's all he was doing, Bob, was cursing. Unfortunately, he was chasing people around with cigars. 
BEGALA:   Well, Mike, if I can be serious here -- let me be serious here for a minute, though. 
NOVAK:   You want to be serious? 
BEGALA:   I'm a Catholic, and I actually checked the St. Augustin's "Summa Theologica" on this, and in his homily on the fire of purgatory, St. Augustin, no lesser authority said that, in fact, cursing is only a venial sin, not a mortal sin. It's a minor offense, because he said evil deeds are much worse than evil words. Wasn't St. Augustin right? 
GALLAGHER:   Oh, you are pulling out all the stops, Paul. But come on, admit it, when you walk through the mall -- today I was in McDonald's with my wife. I don't miss the McDonald's stops too often, as you can tell. And here's a couple of 21-year-old women, young ladies. Every filthy F word, GD -- I'm with my wife. Come on, Paul, you know how embarrassing that is. We need to clean up language, and if the cops need to start arresting people, amen, brother. 
BEGALA:   All right. Mike Gallagher gets the last word on this one tonight, and   dirty word. Good for you. You kept it clean. And Vic Walczak from the ACLU. Thank you both very much for a fun debate. Next on CROSSFIRE -- your chance to fire back at us, and one of our viewers is comparing what Bill Clinton did to what Bush and Cheney did. Stay with us.
