CARLSON:   Welcome back. In the last five years, nearly one billion federal dollars have gone to producing anti-drug advertising. Or have they simply gone up in smoke? The new drug czar calls the ads ineffective and wants millions more to do it right. Your tax dollars on drugs, we're debating it with Robert Weiner, a former spokesman for the White House Drug Policy Office, and Colonel Bob Maginnis of the Family Research Council. Mr. Weiner, you threw out some statistics a moment ago. And without offending you, like many Clinton era statistics, you know, they're open to debate. So let me throw some back at you. I think the same study you were citing, a different part of it, the long-term trends in drug use shows this. I'm going to throw you two numbers. In 1992, the year the Clinton people took office, 33 percent of American high school seniors had smoked pot. When the Clinton people left in 2000, the number was up to 49 percent. 32 percent in 1992, 49 percent in 2000. This is not a victory over marijuana use. This is a major failure. 
WEINER:   There are conflicting numbers. And you're right about that. And from the 12 to 17-year-olds went down 34 percent in the last three years. And cocaine use has gone down by 67 percent in the last 15 years. It's a huge victory when you consider all you have to do is look on street corners. Crime is way down at record lows. The American people are justifiably happy about crime being down. And we can all take pride, parents, teachers, coaches, religious leaders, business leaders, law enforcement, foreign policy people who are helping to stop supplies in Peru and Bolivia, which used to be huge and now they're not. Colombia is trying. Everybody's working together as a team effort. And there's a lot more work to do. There's no question about it. You will have statistical anomalies, but I want to get back to the ads. When people say they haven't been tested, this was the most scientific program, social program in the history of the federal government. And the testing was done from every stage of it. And they were tested. Now if the drug czar isn't testing now, get back to it. Get back to doing the kind of testing we did. 
AL:   In fact, let me tell you what the drug czar said. Colonel Maginnis, in our first segment, you said that Mr. Walters has been a consistent critic of these ads. And I was surprised to hear that, because I want to show you an interview he did with CNN's Paula Zahn three months ago, praising these ads. Here's -- look at what he was saying just three months ago.    We know these ads will work, and that this message will have a great effect on people's thinking about drug use, and their thinking about talking to young people more directly, and forcefully about drug use. So while we think this will change behavior in the coming months. 
MAGINNIS:   No, well I worked with General McCaffrey in uniform, Paul. So I -- and I have a great deal of respect for the general. You know... 
WEINER:   I do too, by the way. 
MAGINNIS:   It's a mutual admiration club there, Bob. 
AL:   Why didn't Bush keep him, by the way? 
MAGINNIS:   I can't answer that. You need to ask the president if he'll talk too to you, Paul. I don't know if he would. 
AL:   He's not my best friend. 
MAGINNIS:   The -- you know, I am concerned that, you know, that seems to be inconsistent. However, John, during testimony, said he's opposed to it. And when he gets this report, this report was not his report. And rightfully so. You know, the Clinton administration put into process an evaluation system. This is what they got. National Institute of Drug Abuse said you're going to do a scientific accountability program, and you're going to have to live with it. Well, they're living with it. And what they're doing, they're saying look, we're going to go out and we're going to find out what's broken. We're going to try to fix it. If the kids that are 12 to 17 aren't turning off on drugs, then we made a mistake. Let's go back and refit that, and try to fix the system. So you know, it's unfortunate. 
WEINER:   They're not asking kids 12 to 17 what they think about the ads. When they ask them about the frying pan ad, they liked it. I was in a briefing at ONDCP a year ago. And I raised that point... 
AL:   Which is the Drug Czar's office, right. 
WEINER:   ...yes. And the answer was mumbo jumbo in terms of why they aren't asking the kids themselves what they think of the ads. 
CARLSON:   Wait, Mr. Weiner, very quickly, I mean, do you really believe that running these ads, many of which, frankly, kids laugh at. They laughed at them when I was in high school. They laugh at them now. Is this really the best way to spend a billion dollars on the inside drug market? 
WEINER:   First of all, it's $195 million a year. Are you going to tell McDonald's, by the way, that shouldn't advertise or anybody else? Advertising works in America. 
CARLSON:     aren't McDonald's. There's a major difference. 
WEINER:   People are paying for your show, I think. And so, I think advertising works in America. 
CARLSON:   Big bucks, too.    But it hasn't worked here. 
WEINER:   It's less than one percent of the budget. And what's happening here is a fight over that minuscule piece of the dollar. There's a fight by the prevention side and the treatment side. They all want to get at the advertising little bit of money. But this is the biggest bang for the buck that we can do. It's less than 1 percent. And it's making a difference. 
AL:   That is going to have to be the last word. Robert Weiner, the former spokesman for the National Drug Czar's Office and Colonel Bob Maginnis of the Family Research Office, thank you very much for joining us both. When we come back, one of our viewers has fired back a thought about one of Tucker's nightmares. We'll get into that in a bit. And then, the very next segment, the Republican fundraiser and chief is going for the record books, while the party uses September 11 as a fundraising tool. We have some comments and lots of zeros. Join us back here in a minute.
