TRAFICANT:   Unbelievable. Schools without prayer. Schools without God. And what really frosts my pumpkin, experts around the country say, to solve the problem Congress should give them more money. Beam me up! Schools do not need more money, schools can use God. 
AL:   He started his career as a sheriff, he may well end it as an inmate. Representative James Traficant is our guest tonight... 
TRAFICANT:   I don't like that comment. 
AL:   Congressman, you'll have an opportunity to respond. You've been convicted of 10 felonies, that is generally what we do with felons, is we make them inmates, congressman.  
TRAFICANT:   I'm not a felon until I'm sentenced, there's still an appeal process, and quite frankly everybody's jealous of me because I'm a fashion leader. Let's tell it like it is. 
AL:   Let me ask you a few specifics, though. Before the break you said that there were no eyewitnesses against you, and in fact there were a totally of 55 witnesses, many of them former staffers of yours... 
TRAFICANT:   Listen to this. 
AL:   Let me give you a few. Just a minute. Alan Sinclair, who is your administrative counsel, who testified under oath that he paid you $2,500 a month in kick-backs, a woman named Grace Kohulic (ph), your former assistant, testified you received thousands of dollars in cash, and she opened those envelopes in your office. A man named George Busela (ph) , a former aide of yours, testified under oath that you made him work at taxpayers expense on your farm, on and on and on. They had you cold. I just don't want you let you tell our audience that there is no case against you. 
TRAFICANT:   Listen to this, I have a tape that says Mr Busela was involved in a $2,500 bribe, that's why he had immunity and he lied. Alan Sinclair worked for me for 13 months, bought a $300,000 house, two brand new cars, and spent $60,000 on media advertising and said he was going bankrupt and owed his partner half a million dollars. Tony Bukey, it was his third plea agreement trying to bring his brother back and I have tapes on every one of them. None of the tapes were allowed to be brought in.    Let me make this statement. Since 1996 they said they investigated me, they had no one wear a body mike to me, they had no wire tap on my phone, they had no electronic surveillance of me. 
CARLSON:   I'm glad you brought that up, congressman. 
TRAFICANT:   They had no FBI or IRS investigator take the stand. They were scare to death. The truth of the matter is -- listen carefully -- they put together a paper trail. And if you would read and see and listen to the tape of one of the witnesses, a woman who said Jim, if I wasn't a party to the action that was taken and I saw their paper trail, if I was on the jury I'd find you guilty too. They brought in paper without corroboration. 
CARLSON:   There is in fact electronic evidence of your, if not in this trial, and certainly of your broader attitudes. 
TRAFICANT:   Where's the electronic evidence? 
CARLSON:   I'll tell you exactly where. 
TRAFICANT:   Wait a minute. Who am I speaking to? 
CARLSON:   Tucker Carlson.  
TRAFICANT:   Tucker who -- tell me the electronic evidence. 
CARLSON:   I shall. It came from the FBI, from the trial in the 1980s, and it appeared in a piece by Dave Grant of "The New Republic," there was a tape recording of a conversation between you and a Youngstown mob boss. You were discussing -- you were sheriff at the time, you were discussing your allegiance to the Mafia, and you were saying look, if any sheriff's deputy crossed the Mafia -- here's the quote from your lips. They'll F-ing come up swimming in the Mahoning River. In other words, I'll have them murdered. You said that on FBI tapes. 
TRAFICANT:   What I did in 1983 is convicted, and that is another thing they tried to do. They brought in from Chicago archives my 1983 trial to investigate and see what my style was. The judge cut me off and stopped nine witnesses from testifying... 
CARLSON:   But Congressman, you were caught bragging about -- bragging about your willingness to murder a sheriff's deputy. 
TRAFICANT:   That has nothing to do with it. What was said in that trial that never came out is they had a false confession that I proved and was acquitted. And that's the reason they've been after me. 
CARLSON:   But you still bragged about murder. Did you or did you not brag about murder? 
TRAFICANT:   No, I didn't brag about murder. And I think you're trying to take things that are abstract where a guy was trying to win a Sheriff's position in a mob infested town, and since I was elected sheriff this has become sort of like a church social around here, I'm very proud of my record as sheriff, the crime rate dropped every year. 
CARLSON:   I bet it did, you scared them. 
TRAFICANT:   No wire tap. They didn't find one person, Paul and Tucker, in 15 years. It went back 15 years to a transaction I had, trying to find one person that I paid cash and bought something for cash. Now let's get off it. There's no electronic evidence. There's nobody wearing -- no wire taps on my phone, no body mikes. Now if you believe that, I have some swamp land for you in Florida and I have this to say to you at George Washington, a great university, beam me up here. 
AL:   Congressman, that's one of your tag lines and your famous lines for it, and it's entertaining. But in your closing argument to the jury, you said this, "if you believe I'm guilty, you come out and just say it. I'll accept it like a man." Is that what you're doing tonight? 
TRAFICANT:   You know what? That jury was predisposed. And there's an ongoing investigation into all matters of this case, and I think when it's over, there's going to be some revelations. They didn't need a prosecutor in this case. I was basically convicted by a judge. 
CARLSON:   They did. And we're almost out of time. I just want to ask you one last question in the 20 seconds we have. Are you afraid of going to prison? Do you fear the prospect? 
TRAFICANT:   No, I'm not afraid of going to prison. I'll say this. The only thing Americans should fear is a Chinese missile. And America should fear a one-sided policy in the Mideast. I'm a friend of Israel. I'm not an anti-Semite, but I did bring John  . He wasn't Ivan the Terrible. No one would even look into that case because it was sensitive. Let me tell you, if somebody would have looked into the sensitivity in Germany in the late '30s, you may not have had a Holocaust. I'm not ashamed of what I've done. I've been targeted. And get your best hold. Jim Traficant is still fighting. And you know what? I may be on the ballot if they sentence me in Ohio, and I could be the first member of Congress elected from jail and I plan to try. 
CARLSON:   And, Congressman, I hope you'll promise right here and now to appear first on CROSSFIRE. We'll welcome you as the congressman from prison. 
TRAFICANT:   Well, No. 1, I'm not going to appear on CROSSFIRE again because you promised me 30 minutes. You lied to me just like a lot of these witnesses did. And, Tucker, you're all right with me. But, Paul... 
CARLSON:   We're part of the conspiracy too, Congressman. We sure appreciate having you on tonight. 
TRAFICANT:   ... you've got that Chinese money. You let that Chinese money in and endanger America. 
AL:   And the Israelis and Janet Reno and it's all a conspiracy. 
CARLSON:   Congressman Jim Traficant from Youngstown, thanks very much. 
TRAFICANT:   Thank you very much. 
CARLSON:   Next in our CROSSFIRE "News Alert," the latest on the battle between Liza Minnelli and her widowed stepmother. Before we hit that high note, consider hint No. 2 for our "Quote of the Day." It doesn't come from Bono, but from someone who could almost pass for his long-lost twin. We'll explain. We'll be right back.
