PRESS:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Even before news of Linda Chavez's troubles with an illegal immigrant surfaced, organized labor had determined to fight her nomination as labor secretary. They say she is their enemy because of her opposition to affirmative action and the minimum wage. Do those policy positions make her a bad choice for labor or should labor unions have any say at all in her selection after backing Al Gore? We debate the new nominee for labor secretary tonight with two former secretaries: Republican Lynn Martin, of President Bush's Cabinet; she's in West Palm Beach, Florida; and Robert Reich, labor secretary for President Clinton joins us from Boston; he's also the author of the new book, "The Future of Success" -- Bob. 
NOVAK:   Robert Reich, the AFL-CIO President John Sweeney has called the nomination of Linda Chavez an insult to American working men and women. And what he is objecting to, as I can see it, mostly, is that she is opposed to racial quotas. Now, this was -- and to a big increase in minimum wage. This was the position of the man who appointed her -- who got elected -- President of the United States George W. Bush. Can you explain to me, why he should put in a labor secretary who is opposed to his positions?  
REICH:   Bob, undoubtedly, the threshold that a Cabinet appointment has to meet, with regard to their positions, the objections -- the people can level against their positions, is not the same as the threshold for, let's say, a Supreme Court Justice, who's going to be in there forever. A president should be entitled to put into his Cabinet people who share his points of view, but, at the same time, there is a legitimate question that can be raised and should be raised about whether one of these people -- whether it's John Ashcroft or it is Linda Chavez, is going to genuinely enforce the laws that he or she has under his or her domain. Now, in terms of minimum wage or Glass Ceiling or affirmative action or a bunch of other labor laws, Linda Chavez has been very public about her opposition in principle to lot of these things. George W. Bush didn't say he didn't want a minimum wage, didn't like a minimum wage increase, he didn't say he thinks that there is no Glass Ceiling, and that's what I understand Linda Chavez said. He really did not campaign against labor laws. 
NOVAK:   Well, he did campaign against racial quotas, but moving on from there, Mr. Secretary; they're dredging up many of the things that Mrs. Chavez has said over the years in her syndicated columns, and I just wonder if that's fair. What would you think of confirming a -- somebody for secretary of labor who had said: "Stalin's economic organization was remarkably successful" or: "Stalin converted Russian surplus farm capacity to efficient industrial capacity." Would you say that somebody who was that injudicious in his comments should not be confirmed in... 
REICH:   I would say that any president that put that person up is going to have a lot of political problems -- is opening himself up for political trouble. But -- but I -- I never said anything like that like. In fact, like Lynn Martin, I was distinguished in my particular confirmation by having 100 Senators -- all of the Senate vote in favor of me. 
NOVAK:   Didn't you say the things I just quoted? 
REICH:   No, no, no. If I did, you were quoting way out of context. I am not a communist. I am not a socialist. I am, at worse, a liberal. 
PRESS:   Those of us who write columns know that our words -- all of us -- the words will come back to haunt us. 
REICH:   It's interesting. In my confirmation hearing, there came out a big volume of Reich quotes and Reich publications that we have to worry about, and I -- really, in preparation to that confirmation, I had to prepare all kinds of responses to all these quotes, and I finally got through it, and somebody brought out Reich quotes, volume two. 
MARTIN:   I missed that on the "bestseller" list, but I promise to read it.  
PRESS:   Well, I want to go back to "Chavez, volume one" and let's ask you about a couple of issues; number one, the minimum wage. I mean, she is an open -- even though Senate and House Democrats and Republicans last year agreed to raise minimum wage -- it never happened; it got bottled up in committees, but both parties agreed to do it. She's been an active vocal opponent of the minimum wage, and she blamed it on -- and here's the quote I want you to listen to: those guys, namely Robert Reich as secretary of labor. She said the blame should be laid on "those folks at the Clinton labor department who seemed to think wage policy should follow Karl Marx's dictum from each, according to his abilities to each, according to his needs." Do you really agree with her that minimum wage is a Marxist idea, and that Bob Reich is a Marxist? 
MARTIN:   I think you're just going to go on for a long time, Bill, and I'm enjoying this. 
PRESS:   I was wound up. 
MARTIN:   Let me suggest a number of things here. I hope we don't get to a time where we can't approve of people who write; and writing, you know, does sometimes -- you say things that later on -- I'm sure I said things at age 10 and 12 someone could dig up and thank God didn't. Two things about the minimum wage. One, it's my understanding that she does not support ending the minimum wage, but would, for instance, wonder what happens if you are in a different kind of economy and there's an area with very high unemployment . These are legitimate questions but that doesn't preclude the fact that she would enforce the law. I think we all know that that's what you must do. But the second part here, and I suspect the more important part, the minimum wage, in my view, is one of these issues that people drag up once in a while that doesn't have the relevance to the new economy it once had. Minimum wage is not a living wage. What we have to concentrate more on, is making sure people can make enough money, having the kind of training they need to succeed. 
PRESS:   I'm jumping in just because we are almost out of time. I want to jump in, quickly, to one other issue. 
REICH:   I have to respond to that. I have enormous respect for Lynn Martin in every other way, but I just have to say, the minimum wage means something to ten million people who are now getting by on $10,800 a year, and that minimum ought to be increased, Lynn... 
MARTIN:   It used to be the Restaurant Association against it, the Labor Union's for it, but what we are looking at is... 
NOVAK:   Madam Secretary, we are going to have to live with no time being left; thank you very much, Lynn Martin. Thank you Robert Reich. And Secretary Press and I will be back with closing comments.
