NOVAK:   Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're talking about Howard Dean's prospects of remaining the Democratic front-runner. In the CROSSFIRE now is Congressman James Moran, Democrat of Virginia. And he has endorsed Dr. Dean. 
BEGALA:   Congressman Moran, good to see you again. Thank you for joining us. 
MORAN:   Good to see you. Thank you. 
BEGALA:   A moment ago, your colleague, fellow Democrat, Congressman Anthony Weiner, supporting Wesley Clark, said one of the big issues for him is electability. He says his guy can beat President Bush and your guy can't. And, indeed, let's take a look at a poll that was conducted recently in New Hampshire, the state where, of course, Governor Dean is winning. 
MORAN:   Is leading. 
BEGALA:   Overwhelmingly. 
MORAN:   Right. 
BEGALA:   And his campaign's strong and, frankly, has campaigned brilliantly. 
MORAN:   Right. 
BEGALA:   Despite all that exposure, look at this poll. 
MORAN:   I was just in New Hampshire last week. 
BEGALA:   Well, President Bush is pounding him in New Hampshire, 57 to 30. Bush crushes Dean. This is a state that was basically a tossup against Al Gore. Bush carried by 7,000 votes. What gives? 
MORAN:   Well, I think it's early to be focusing on the general election. And we're talking about different issues right now. Howard Dean is going to take every issue to George Bush. That's why he's running. I do think that the problem with his opponents is, they're not taking the issues to George Bush. They're trying to undermine Howard Dean. And they'd be far better served, both in the Democratic primary and as candidates, individually and collectively, if they would do what Howard Dean is doing, which is raising the issue that this Medicare bill is a horrible bill for our sickest and oldest seniors. These tax cuts have put our -- the next generation into $12 trillion of debt they'll never get out of, and that the going to war was done under false pretenses. That's what the Democrats need to be focusing on, not trying to find distinctions between themselves and Howard Dean. The distinction ought to be between themselves and George Bush. 
NOVAK:   Congressman...    Congressman, I want you to listen to a fellow Democrat who puts the question of electability in a little stronger terms than Congressman Weiner did. And that's Joe Lieberman, the senator from Connecticut who is running for president. And let's listen to what he said just about a half-hour ago on "INSIDE POLITICS." 
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN  , PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:   Some of the things that -- people in New Hampshire are worried that some of the things that Howard Dean has said are going to be turned right back on him by George W. Bush and Karl Rove and make him unelectable. 
NOVAK:   And what Joe is saying that the things like, he doesn't think we're safer with Saddam Hussein captured; he doesn't know whether Osama bin Laden is guilty; he doesn't know whether his brother is alive or dead. There's just a lot of peculiar things that Dean has said. Doesn't that bother you? 
MORAN:   I could find peculiar things that every human being I know has said, including you, Bob.    You know, that's -- I don't think that's the issue. The issue is, who is going to pick up the mantle and stand for the principles that we believe in as Democrats? And Joe is an example. I like Joe. Joe is a good friend. And I think he's a good Democrat. I think he'd be a better Democrat if he focused on distinguishing himself from George Bush, instead of from Howard Dean. Joe was one of the earliest supporters, really of the Iraq war among Democrats. And I think a lot of Democrats were influenced by Joe's support. And I think Joe ought to be focusing on the things that he was disappointed in, in terms of George Bush's leadership with the Iraq war.  
BEGALA:   Well, one of the issues you mentioned before when we said what issues is Dean going to take to President Bush. You mentioned Medicare first. But let me ask you about that. It's emerged as an issue in the primaries. In 1995, I remember well -- and certainly you do -- you helped the Democrats in Congress. You bitterly opposed a Republican plan that would have cut $270 billion from Medicare. 
MORAN:   That's right. 
BEGALA:   Yet your candidate, Howard Dean, in 1995 told his hometown paper he fully subscribes -- his words, not mine -- to the notion of the Republican Medicare cuts and that he applauded them. Wasn't he wrong about Medicare? Weren't you right then and wasn't he wrong then? 
MORAN:   Well, it's sometimes, where you sit is where you stand. And he was a governor of a state that was fiscally conservative. He was a fiscally conservative governor. And he felt that there are better ways of delivering health care. But he felt that everybody needs to have access to a health care system. So you have to put that in the context that he was struggling to get universal health care for all of the residents of Vermont. And he achieved that objective. He wasn't opposing the Medicare program 
BEGALA:   But, as a great defender of Medicare, you're not troubled by the fact that he sided, frankly, with the Republicans and Speaker Gingrich against you and President Clinton and Democrats in the biggest fight of -- one of the biggest fights of the whole Clinton presidency? 
MORAN:   You know, I think that sometimes, people's views evolve. The fact is that he was a -- he was a governor and he recognized that there were some ways to -- I think he was addressing the Medicaid program, frankly, more than the Medicare program. 
NOVAK:   Jim Moran, I tried to get Congressman Weiner to inform me about some things. 
MORAN:   Yes. 
NOVAK:   And, frankly, he failed. I want you to do a better job. 
MORAN:   Set me up. 
NOVAK:   No. Howard Dean, on December 1, said, we've got to stop having the campaigns running this country based on abortion, guns, God, and gays. And a lot of people have commented that Howard may be the most secular candidate they've ever seen. He doesn't like to mention God. And then, on December 27, two days after Christmas, there was a miracle.    He said, interviewed by, I think -- I won't say who interviewed him. He said, "I think religion is important and spiritual values are very important, which what this election is really about." Is this -- was this a religious experience, like Saint Paul? 
MORAN:   Well, you're very clever in setting up this argument. But you know at least as well as I do that the people who are most spiritual don't talk about their religion or their spirituality. They live it. I think he lives it. 
NOVAK:   He's a spiritual person? 
MORAN:   I think do think he's a spiritual person. I do. 
NOVAK:   I was told he switched from Episcopalian to Congregationalist because the parking spaces were better. Is that true? 
MORAN:   Well, you were told wrong. It's not -- you know, sometimes, we don't get accurate information. That's not -- but he doesn't talk about his religion.    But I think he's lived a spiritual life. And that's why he's in public service, instead of making a lot more money as a doctor. 
BEGALA:   Well, briefly, let me ask you -- we're almost out of time. 
MORAN:   Yes. 
BEGALA:   You're a member of Democratic Leadership Council. 
MORAN:   Yes. 
BEGALA:   Was Governor Dean wrong when he called it the Republican wing of the Democratic Party?  
MORAN:   It's the more moderate wing of the...    Good question. I think that the DLC has been reticent about showing the kinds of differences, stark differences, between George Bush's leadership and -- and the traditional core of the Democratic Party. They have been trying to move the Democratic Party to the middle. I think they've been successful. I think a lot of their ideas are very good. And I think, when Howard Dean is president, he's going to adopt a lot of the ideas of the Democratic Leadership Council. And they're all going to 
BEGALA:   Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, thank you for joining us right after the New Year's holiday. 
NOVAK:   Well done. 
MORAN:   See you, Paul. 
BEGALA:   Now, just ahead, my buddy James Carville made "The Washington Post"'s out list? Now we'll show you who is taking his -- James's place on the in list in Washington when we come back. Stay with us.
