<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_26_2240250</id>
	<title>Nvidia Drops Support For Its Open Source Driver</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269600600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"While Nvidia is not open-source friendly (despite <a href="http://www.opentheblob.com/">public outcries</a> over the years), they have traditionally supported the <a href="http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-nv/">xf86-video-nv driver</a> to provide basic mode setting support and other basic functionality. However, with the 'Fermi' and future products, even that open source support will cease to exist. Nvidia has announced they are <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=14714">dropping this open source support for future GPUs</a> and really ending it altogether. Nvidia's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver. Fortunately there is the <a href="http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/">Nouveau project</a> that provides a 2D and 3D video driver for Nvidia's hardware, but Nvidia fails to acknowledge it nor support their efforts in any form."</i>

<a href="http://newstechnica.com/" rel="nofollow">David Gerard</a> points out that <a href="http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/11/1556237/Nouveau-NVIDIA-Driver-To-Enter-Linux-2633-Kernel">Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33</a>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " While Nvidia is not open-source friendly ( despite public outcries over the years ) , they have traditionally supported the xf86-video-nv driver to provide basic mode setting support and other basic functionality .
However , with the 'Fermi ' and future products , even that open source support will cease to exist .
Nvidia has announced they are dropping this open source support for future GPUs and really ending it altogether .
Nvidia 's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver .
Fortunately there is the Nouveau project that provides a 2D and 3D video driver for Nvidia 's hardware , but Nvidia fails to acknowledge it nor support their efforts in any form .
" David Gerard points out that Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "While Nvidia is not open-source friendly (despite public outcries over the years), they have traditionally supported the xf86-video-nv driver to provide basic mode setting support and other basic functionality.
However, with the 'Fermi' and future products, even that open source support will cease to exist.
Nvidia has announced they are dropping this open source support for future GPUs and really ending it altogether.
Nvidia's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver.
Fortunately there is the Nouveau project that provides a 2D and 3D video driver for Nvidia's hardware, but Nvidia fails to acknowledge it nor support their efforts in any form.
"

David Gerard points out that Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634376</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Bruce Perens</author>
	<datestamp>1269608160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not interested in Quack. But flightgear works pretty well on the Intel card on my motherboard, with the Open Source driver. Marries two screens side-by-side on the same memory plane, too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not interested in Quack .
But flightgear works pretty well on the Intel card on my motherboard , with the Open Source driver .
Marries two screens side-by-side on the same memory plane , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not interested in Quack.
But flightgear works pretty well on the Intel card on my motherboard, with the Open Source driver.
Marries two screens side-by-side on the same memory plane, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638260</id>
	<title>Changing very rapidly</title>
	<author>fritsd</author>
	<datestamp>1269690780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have an AMD/ATI HD3200 (non-expensive on-motherboard graphics card) and I've been trying to follow and understand the development for the past year or so. My opinion is that it's changing very rapidly, that the (few?) developers working on it are working their collective asses off.
<br>
There's a hardware-news website which keeps a close tab on the developments called <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/" title="phoronix.com">http://www.phoronix.com</a> [phoronix.com] (also tracks NVIDIA developments; this article in particular might be interesting to NVIDIA owners: <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&amp;item=nouveau\_gallium3d\_first&amp;num=1" title="phoronix.com">Benchmarks Of Nouveau's Gallium3D OpenGL Driver</a> [phoronix.com]).
<br>
Also, you can follow the development of mesa at <a href="http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/" title="freedesktop.org">http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/</a> [freedesktop.org].
<br>
Current AMD status seems to be that for older ATI's (up to R500 series) there's a "normal" X driver (supporting KMS?) + "bleeding edge" newer, probably highly experimental <a href="http://www.x.org/wiki/GalliumStatus" title="x.org">Gallium3D</a> [x.org] r300g driver, and for the newer R600, R700 series there's only the normal X driver, with KMS, called xserver-xorg-video-ati. There's also an xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd but I think it's a bit less developed.
<br>
With the following "testing" and "unstable" stuff installed on Debian:
<ul> <li>
xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.12.6-1
</li><li>
libdrm2 2.4.18-2
</li><li>
libgl1-mesa-dri 7.7-4 (and the other mesa stuff)
</li><li>
linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 2.6.32-5
</li></ul><p>
I can play tremulous, urbanterror, and openarena normally, but nexuiz crashes the X server and the commercial ETQW and quake4 crashes missing some higher OpenGL functionality, so YMMV.
<br>
It is my opinion that this risky "develop everything anew" Gallium3D strategy will pay off, because the AMD/ATI, Intel, Nouveau and VMware teams can then bundle their efforts on the exciting higher-level "state tracker" layers (such as more recent OpenGL with GLSL for games, and OpenCL!, and maybe some kind of video acceleration or at least DCT also if they agree on which one) and only need to write modesetting and Gallium driver compiler stuff themselves.
<br>
But nobody can say for sure if all the temporary instabilities and incompatibilities will all be behind us at the end of 2010. It's good enough for me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an AMD/ATI HD3200 ( non-expensive on-motherboard graphics card ) and I 've been trying to follow and understand the development for the past year or so .
My opinion is that it 's changing very rapidly , that the ( few ?
) developers working on it are working their collective asses off .
There 's a hardware-news website which keeps a close tab on the developments called http : //www.phoronix.com [ phoronix.com ] ( also tracks NVIDIA developments ; this article in particular might be interesting to NVIDIA owners : Benchmarks Of Nouveau 's Gallium3D OpenGL Driver [ phoronix.com ] ) .
Also , you can follow the development of mesa at http : //cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/ [ freedesktop.org ] .
Current AMD status seems to be that for older ATI 's ( up to R500 series ) there 's a " normal " X driver ( supporting KMS ?
) + " bleeding edge " newer , probably highly experimental Gallium3D [ x.org ] r300g driver , and for the newer R600 , R700 series there 's only the normal X driver , with KMS , called xserver-xorg-video-ati .
There 's also an xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd but I think it 's a bit less developed .
With the following " testing " and " unstable " stuff installed on Debian : xserver-xorg-video-ati 1 : 6.12.6-1 libdrm2 2.4.18-2 libgl1-mesa-dri 7.7-4 ( and the other mesa stuff ) linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 2.6.32-5 I can play tremulous , urbanterror , and openarena normally , but nexuiz crashes the X server and the commercial ETQW and quake4 crashes missing some higher OpenGL functionality , so YMMV .
It is my opinion that this risky " develop everything anew " Gallium3D strategy will pay off , because the AMD/ATI , Intel , Nouveau and VMware teams can then bundle their efforts on the exciting higher-level " state tracker " layers ( such as more recent OpenGL with GLSL for games , and OpenCL ! , and maybe some kind of video acceleration or at least DCT also if they agree on which one ) and only need to write modesetting and Gallium driver compiler stuff themselves .
But nobody can say for sure if all the temporary instabilities and incompatibilities will all be behind us at the end of 2010 .
It 's good enough for me : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an AMD/ATI HD3200 (non-expensive on-motherboard graphics card) and I've been trying to follow and understand the development for the past year or so.
My opinion is that it's changing very rapidly, that the (few?
) developers working on it are working their collective asses off.
There's a hardware-news website which keeps a close tab on the developments called http://www.phoronix.com [phoronix.com] (also tracks NVIDIA developments; this article in particular might be interesting to NVIDIA owners: Benchmarks Of Nouveau's Gallium3D OpenGL Driver [phoronix.com]).
Also, you can follow the development of mesa at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/ [freedesktop.org].
Current AMD status seems to be that for older ATI's (up to R500 series) there's a "normal" X driver (supporting KMS?
) + "bleeding edge" newer, probably highly experimental Gallium3D [x.org] r300g driver, and for the newer R600, R700 series there's only the normal X driver, with KMS, called xserver-xorg-video-ati.
There's also an xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd but I think it's a bit less developed.
With the following "testing" and "unstable" stuff installed on Debian:
 
xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.12.6-1

libdrm2 2.4.18-2

libgl1-mesa-dri 7.7-4 (and the other mesa stuff)

linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 2.6.32-5

I can play tremulous, urbanterror, and openarena normally, but nexuiz crashes the X server and the commercial ETQW and quake4 crashes missing some higher OpenGL functionality, so YMMV.
It is my opinion that this risky "develop everything anew" Gallium3D strategy will pay off, because the AMD/ATI, Intel, Nouveau and VMware teams can then bundle their efforts on the exciting higher-level "state tracker" layers (such as more recent OpenGL with GLSL for games, and OpenCL!, and maybe some kind of video acceleration or at least DCT also if they agree on which one) and only need to write modesetting and Gallium driver compiler stuff themselves.
But nobody can say for sure if all the temporary instabilities and incompatibilities will all be behind us at the end of 2010.
It's good enough for me :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635720</id>
	<title>Naive question - not trolling</title>
	<author>spmkk</author>
	<datestamp>1269616320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know this is might be silly, and I swear I'm not trying to piss anybody off. I really do want to know (so please hold the snark): What exactly is this controversy about?<br>
<br>
When I buy computer hardware, I buy it so I can do the things it enables me to do. I'm not a hard-core gamer myself, but if I wanted to play a game that requires high-end performance from a video card, I would buy a high-end card so that I can play the game. I'm a developer and I like to tinker as much as the next guy, but if the manufacturer was kind enough to provide a software driver that's stable and delivers all the capabilities of the hardware into my hands, I can probably find better uses for my time than reinventing that wheel because I'm offended by their lack of transparency.<br>
<br>
There is a LOT of discussion here already. I'm just not sure what about. I admire the FOSS community for its adherence to principles. But seriously - what do you ACTUALLY lose from using the proprietary driver that nVidia has specifically developed for your operating system, which many people here seem to concede works perfectly well, and that is provided to you free of charge when you buy the video card? Is this ACTUALLY a problem, or is it a matter of principle? And if it's the latter, what exactly are you fighting for, and why is it a priority vs. all the other problems in the tech world that heaven knows need solving?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this is might be silly , and I swear I 'm not trying to piss anybody off .
I really do want to know ( so please hold the snark ) : What exactly is this controversy about ?
When I buy computer hardware , I buy it so I can do the things it enables me to do .
I 'm not a hard-core gamer myself , but if I wanted to play a game that requires high-end performance from a video card , I would buy a high-end card so that I can play the game .
I 'm a developer and I like to tinker as much as the next guy , but if the manufacturer was kind enough to provide a software driver that 's stable and delivers all the capabilities of the hardware into my hands , I can probably find better uses for my time than reinventing that wheel because I 'm offended by their lack of transparency .
There is a LOT of discussion here already .
I 'm just not sure what about .
I admire the FOSS community for its adherence to principles .
But seriously - what do you ACTUALLY lose from using the proprietary driver that nVidia has specifically developed for your operating system , which many people here seem to concede works perfectly well , and that is provided to you free of charge when you buy the video card ?
Is this ACTUALLY a problem , or is it a matter of principle ?
And if it 's the latter , what exactly are you fighting for , and why is it a priority vs. all the other problems in the tech world that heaven knows need solving ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this is might be silly, and I swear I'm not trying to piss anybody off.
I really do want to know (so please hold the snark): What exactly is this controversy about?
When I buy computer hardware, I buy it so I can do the things it enables me to do.
I'm not a hard-core gamer myself, but if I wanted to play a game that requires high-end performance from a video card, I would buy a high-end card so that I can play the game.
I'm a developer and I like to tinker as much as the next guy, but if the manufacturer was kind enough to provide a software driver that's stable and delivers all the capabilities of the hardware into my hands, I can probably find better uses for my time than reinventing that wheel because I'm offended by their lack of transparency.
There is a LOT of discussion here already.
I'm just not sure what about.
I admire the FOSS community for its adherence to principles.
But seriously - what do you ACTUALLY lose from using the proprietary driver that nVidia has specifically developed for your operating system, which many people here seem to concede works perfectly well, and that is provided to you free of charge when you buy the video card?
Is this ACTUALLY a problem, or is it a matter of principle?
And if it's the latter, what exactly are you fighting for, and why is it a priority vs. all the other problems in the tech world that heaven knows need solving?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633888</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmmz, I used to have Nvidia all the time, worked like a charm. But then I did what you said. Bought an hd4770... guess what. No drivers that were actually stable for half a year. Next time, it's nvidia for me again. And yes, with their drivers. It's fine to have freedom, but when freedom starts limiting your choice by saying you should never use 'closed' software, well... then they have completely missed their own point. imho though. Can't blame nvidia for this one. Their drivers work great, why look further. It's not that the opensource alternative in the specific case of videohardware will be better... Not by a long shot. At least at this point in time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmz , I used to have Nvidia all the time , worked like a charm .
But then I did what you said .
Bought an hd4770... guess what .
No drivers that were actually stable for half a year .
Next time , it 's nvidia for me again .
And yes , with their drivers .
It 's fine to have freedom , but when freedom starts limiting your choice by saying you should never use 'closed ' software , well... then they have completely missed their own point .
imho though .
Ca n't blame nvidia for this one .
Their drivers work great , why look further .
It 's not that the opensource alternative in the specific case of videohardware will be better... Not by a long shot .
At least at this point in time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmz, I used to have Nvidia all the time, worked like a charm.
But then I did what you said.
Bought an hd4770... guess what.
No drivers that were actually stable for half a year.
Next time, it's nvidia for me again.
And yes, with their drivers.
It's fine to have freedom, but when freedom starts limiting your choice by saying you should never use 'closed' software, well... then they have completely missed their own point.
imho though.
Can't blame nvidia for this one.
Their drivers work great, why look further.
It's not that the opensource alternative in the specific case of videohardware will be better... Not by a long shot.
At least at this point in time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633760</id>
	<title>First</title>
	<author>choongiri</author>
	<datestamp>1269604380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>...what? Sorry I can't read this. Why does my screen look all funny?</htmltext>
<tokenext>...what ?
Sorry I ca n't read this .
Why does my screen look all funny ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...what?
Sorry I can't read this.
Why does my screen look all funny?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634132</id>
	<title>Dear Nvidia - I've bought my last card from you</title>
	<author>rcpitt</author>
	<datestamp>1269606600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My workstation has 3 in it - and I have another 10+ sprinked around the house in various machine - and maybe anther 100+ at various customer locations.
<p>
ATI gets my business now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My workstation has 3 in it - and I have another 10 + sprinked around the house in various machine - and maybe anther 100 + at various customer locations .
ATI gets my business now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My workstation has 3 in it - and I have another 10+ sprinked around the house in various machine - and maybe anther 100+ at various customer locations.
ATI gets my business now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634842</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269611280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop)</p></div><p>That depends. I am using a two year old Acer laptop with a Nvidia 8600 MGT, which you can change if you bother to actually open the laptop (and if it's it out warranty). It uses an MXM Slot. Did not change cards though, "repaired" the card by baking it in the oven at 105  C for 30 Minutes (it actually works..).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( especially - because you ca n't change cards in a laptop ) That depends .
I am using a two year old Acer laptop with a Nvidia 8600 MGT , which you can change if you bother to actually open the laptop ( and if it 's it out warranty ) .
It uses an MXM Slot .
Did not change cards though , " repaired " the card by baking it in the oven at 105 C for 30 Minutes ( it actually works.. ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop)That depends.
I am using a two year old Acer laptop with a Nvidia 8600 MGT, which you can change if you bother to actually open the laptop (and if it's it out warranty).
It uses an MXM Slot.
Did not change cards though, "repaired" the card by baking it in the oven at 105  C for 30 Minutes (it actually works..).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633878</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>not every Linux gamer is an open source evangelist, there is a perfectly fine binary driver...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>not every Linux gamer is an open source evangelist , there is a perfectly fine binary driver.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not every Linux gamer is an open source evangelist, there is a perfectly fine binary driver...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636240</id>
	<title>Re:Open matters.....</title>
	<author>Jeek Elemental</author>
	<datestamp>1269620040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agree mostly with this, I bought amd cpu/mb and ati card last time to support their open source efforts and non-douchebag business (ill never touch intel).<br>Sadly tho it seems to be a choice between evil and incompetent, the catalyst drivers are completely random regarding functionality.<br>They cant even get the packaging straight.</p><p>If someone else starts making decent cpu/gpu with drivers that work its bye to amd/ati.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agree mostly with this , I bought amd cpu/mb and ati card last time to support their open source efforts and non-douchebag business ( ill never touch intel ) .Sadly tho it seems to be a choice between evil and incompetent , the catalyst drivers are completely random regarding functionality.They cant even get the packaging straight.If someone else starts making decent cpu/gpu with drivers that work its bye to amd/ati .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agree mostly with this, I bought amd cpu/mb and ati card last time to support their open source efforts and non-douchebag business (ill never touch intel).Sadly tho it seems to be a choice between evil and incompetent, the catalyst drivers are completely random regarding functionality.They cant even get the packaging straight.If someone else starts making decent cpu/gpu with drivers that work its bye to amd/ati.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>stoanhart</author>
	<datestamp>1269605700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't understand why people are upset about this. Linux isn't being treated any lesser here; in fact, this is the same strategy they have on Windows. If you stick an nVidia card into an XP machine with no drivers, you get VESA which you use to go to nvidia.com to download the real drivers. Sure, Vista/7 ships with drivers, and so could Linux if the GPL didn't prohibit it. Besides, Nouveau is better than nv, so the driver is redundant.
<br> <br>
This decision has no impact on games or on people using 3D software as the parent has suggested in his comment, since the nv driver had no 3D capability anyways. Development is continuing on nVidia's high quality 3D driver. There is no reason to vote with you wallet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why people are upset about this .
Linux is n't being treated any lesser here ; in fact , this is the same strategy they have on Windows .
If you stick an nVidia card into an XP machine with no drivers , you get VESA which you use to go to nvidia.com to download the real drivers .
Sure , Vista/7 ships with drivers , and so could Linux if the GPL did n't prohibit it .
Besides , Nouveau is better than nv , so the driver is redundant .
This decision has no impact on games or on people using 3D software as the parent has suggested in his comment , since the nv driver had no 3D capability anyways .
Development is continuing on nVidia 's high quality 3D driver .
There is no reason to vote with you wallet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why people are upset about this.
Linux isn't being treated any lesser here; in fact, this is the same strategy they have on Windows.
If you stick an nVidia card into an XP machine with no drivers, you get VESA which you use to go to nvidia.com to download the real drivers.
Sure, Vista/7 ships with drivers, and so could Linux if the GPL didn't prohibit it.
Besides, Nouveau is better than nv, so the driver is redundant.
This decision has no impact on games or on people using 3D software as the parent has suggested in his comment, since the nv driver had no 3D capability anyways.
Development is continuing on nVidia's high quality 3D driver.
There is no reason to vote with you wallet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31639646</id>
	<title>Can anyone say self-fulfilling prophecy?</title>
	<author>Compaqt</author>
	<datestamp>1269706680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. We're cancelling/impinging open source efforts for nVidia.<br>2. Open source geeks aren't buying nVidia.<br>3.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>4. Don't profit!<br>5. GOTO #1</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
We 're cancelling/impinging open source efforts for nVidia.2 .
Open source geeks are n't buying nVidia.3 .
...4. Do n't profit ! 5 .
GOTO # 1</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
We're cancelling/impinging open source efforts for nVidia.2.
Open source geeks aren't buying nVidia.3.
...4. Don't profit!5.
GOTO #1</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634526</id>
	<title>Re:Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>GreatBunzinni</author>
	<datestamp>1269609120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you considering graphics cards as gaming accessories or graphics cards as parallel math coprocessors for the medium-end number crunching on a budget market?  If you consider the latter then drivers for graphics card, which bring support for OpenCL, will make linux a worthwhile market segment.  Where do you find people crunching numbers?  Windows? OSX? No. <a href="http://www.top500.org/stats/list/34/os" title="top500.org">All the cool kids crunch numbers with linux.</a> [top500.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you considering graphics cards as gaming accessories or graphics cards as parallel math coprocessors for the medium-end number crunching on a budget market ?
If you consider the latter then drivers for graphics card , which bring support for OpenCL , will make linux a worthwhile market segment .
Where do you find people crunching numbers ?
Windows ? OSX ?
No. All the cool kids crunch numbers with linux .
[ top500.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you considering graphics cards as gaming accessories or graphics cards as parallel math coprocessors for the medium-end number crunching on a budget market?
If you consider the latter then drivers for graphics card, which bring support for OpenCL, will make linux a worthwhile market segment.
Where do you find people crunching numbers?
Windows? OSX?
No. All the cool kids crunch numbers with linux.
[top500.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636836</id>
	<title>Re:Dear Nvidia - I've bought my last card from you</title>
	<author>mdda</author>
	<datestamp>1269625140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed twenty times over.  My users are all using ATI cards.</p><p>Even though they're running 2D apps on Windows, the price difference between ATI and Nvidia was practically zero for the features I needed - and the fact that I have a strong 'open' bias gave ATI the order.</p><p>Nobody lost but Nvidia.  And even ATI may not realize that they made Windows sales because they freed their documents up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed twenty times over .
My users are all using ATI cards.Even though they 're running 2D apps on Windows , the price difference between ATI and Nvidia was practically zero for the features I needed - and the fact that I have a strong 'open ' bias gave ATI the order.Nobody lost but Nvidia .
And even ATI may not realize that they made Windows sales because they freed their documents up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed twenty times over.
My users are all using ATI cards.Even though they're running 2D apps on Windows, the price difference between ATI and Nvidia was practically zero for the features I needed - and the fact that I have a strong 'open' bias gave ATI the order.Nobody lost but Nvidia.
And even ATI may not realize that they made Windows sales because they freed their documents up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633930</id>
	<title>DON'T BUY FROM NVIDIA</title>
	<author>paxcoder</author>
	<datestamp>1269605280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>enemy of your freedom.</p><p>Next time I buy some graphics card, I'll do my homework first. Even Radon needs blobs in the kernel to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>enemy of your freedom.Next time I buy some graphics card , I 'll do my homework first .
Even Radon needs blobs in the kernel to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>enemy of your freedom.Next time I buy some graphics card, I'll do my homework first.
Even Radon needs blobs in the kernel to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634594</id>
	<title>everybody... almost</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269609600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everybody but RMS just runs the proprietary driver anyway...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everybody but RMS just runs the proprietary driver anyway.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everybody but RMS just runs the proprietary driver anyway...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633944</id>
	<title>Why isn't there a generic driver format?</title>
	<author>KPexEA</author>
	<datestamp>1269605400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why don't we have a generic driver format that is only compiled into machine code when it is installed? That way drivers would work across all operating systems and CPU configurations.
<br> <br>
Are the current OS / Driver interactions so different that having glue code compile along with them will not work in having an abstract interface?
<br> <br>
We certainly don't need buy-in from the OS guys to do this type of compiler/installer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't we have a generic driver format that is only compiled into machine code when it is installed ?
That way drivers would work across all operating systems and CPU configurations .
Are the current OS / Driver interactions so different that having glue code compile along with them will not work in having an abstract interface ?
We certainly do n't need buy-in from the OS guys to do this type of compiler/installer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't we have a generic driver format that is only compiled into machine code when it is installed?
That way drivers would work across all operating systems and CPU configurations.
Are the current OS / Driver interactions so different that having glue code compile along with them will not work in having an abstract interface?
We certainly don't need buy-in from the OS guys to do this type of compiler/installer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636448</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1269621660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>no ati provided crap drivers for linux. and in most cases the open driver worked better. when amd bought ati this has been inproving alot on the linux side. the open driver for older chipsets is fast as hell. and there closed driver is pretty close to nividas these days. and as for intels drivers they are utter crap there 3d modes are dirt slow in linux slower then the worst ati drivers. nivida still has the best linux drivers but with amd running things at ati now its getting better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>no ati provided crap drivers for linux .
and in most cases the open driver worked better .
when amd bought ati this has been inproving alot on the linux side .
the open driver for older chipsets is fast as hell .
and there closed driver is pretty close to nividas these days .
and as for intels drivers they are utter crap there 3d modes are dirt slow in linux slower then the worst ati drivers .
nivida still has the best linux drivers but with amd running things at ati now its getting better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no ati provided crap drivers for linux.
and in most cases the open driver worked better.
when amd bought ati this has been inproving alot on the linux side.
the open driver for older chipsets is fast as hell.
and there closed driver is pretty close to nividas these days.
and as for intels drivers they are utter crap there 3d modes are dirt slow in linux slower then the worst ati drivers.
nivida still has the best linux drivers but with amd running things at ati now its getting better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636424</id>
	<title>Advanced Cleanse Extreme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269621480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This one is the best, and I have tried many as I am a custom pc builder by trade.
<a href="http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/advanced-cleanse-extreme-review-find-the-facts-behind-advanced-cleanse-2051543.html" title="articlesbase.com" rel="nofollow">Advanced Cleanse Extreme</a> [articlesbase.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>This one is the best , and I have tried many as I am a custom pc builder by trade .
Advanced Cleanse Extreme [ articlesbase.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This one is the best, and I have tried many as I am a custom pc builder by trade.
Advanced Cleanse Extreme [articlesbase.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31642996</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1269687480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[citation-needed]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ citation-needed ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[citation-needed]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636414</id>
	<title>Why NV runs from open source</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269621300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To be efficient, their drivers, in obfuscated C (in the dim past) and with<br>misdirection (my take) they use the techniques in this US patent: 5,475,400,<br>apparently owned by the Evil Sim Empire, a/k/a Creative Labs.</p><p>Too bad Creative lost Danforth to the GC  position at (also litigious)<br>Rambus, or this would already be troll bait.</p><p>To avoid complications, this causes delays and obfuscatory<br>efforts.  (To paraphrase the Chairman, "Allex Cuisine) or,<br>for this "Let the sparks begin!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To be efficient , their drivers , in obfuscated C ( in the dim past ) and withmisdirection ( my take ) they use the techniques in this US patent : 5,475,400,apparently owned by the Evil Sim Empire , a/k/a Creative Labs.Too bad Creative lost Danforth to the GC position at ( also litigious ) Rambus , or this would already be troll bait.To avoid complications , this causes delays and obfuscatoryefforts .
( To paraphrase the Chairman , " Allex Cuisine ) or,for this " Let the sparks begin !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be efficient, their drivers, in obfuscated C (in the dim past) and withmisdirection (my take) they use the techniques in this US patent: 5,475,400,apparently owned by the Evil Sim Empire, a/k/a Creative Labs.Too bad Creative lost Danforth to the GC  position at (also litigious)Rambus, or this would already be troll bait.To avoid complications, this causes delays and obfuscatoryefforts.
(To paraphrase the Chairman, "Allex Cuisine) or,for this "Let the sparks begin!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636128</id>
	<title>Their latest driver is unusable anyway</title>
	<author>flyingfsck</author>
	<datestamp>1269619200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It wouldn't matter even if they dropped support for the proprietary one as well, since their latest driver is unusable anyway - at least on my Toshiba U500 laptop it is.  The damn thing crashes all the time, so I am still using the VESA driver.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would n't matter even if they dropped support for the proprietary one as well , since their latest driver is unusable anyway - at least on my Toshiba U500 laptop it is .
The damn thing crashes all the time , so I am still using the VESA driver .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wouldn't matter even if they dropped support for the proprietary one as well, since their latest driver is unusable anyway - at least on my Toshiba U500 laptop it is.
The damn thing crashes all the time, so I am still using the VESA driver.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635302</id>
	<title>Re:Why isn't there a generic driver format?</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1269613860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its called source code.  Which contains proprietary trade-secrets/licensed algorithms that Nvidia are not entitled to divulge?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its called source code .
Which contains proprietary trade-secrets/licensed algorithms that Nvidia are not entitled to divulge ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its called source code.
Which contains proprietary trade-secrets/licensed algorithms that Nvidia are not entitled to divulge?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633944</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634350</id>
	<title>So long, Nvidia and thanks for all the frames</title>
	<author>haruchai</author>
	<datestamp>1269608040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; but, going forward, it'll be either ATI or, (much less likely) Intel. I used to be a regular Matrox buyer, then ATI and my last 2 cards have<br>been Nvidia. But, since I'm a solid supporter of opensource and OSS-friendly companies, I bid thee adieu.</p><p>As a infrequent-to-moderate gamer, I don't need to have the latest greatest, power-sucking, screen-sizzling framerates and, in any case, ATI is neck-and-neck<br>anyhow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>  but , going forward , it 'll be either ATI or , ( much less likely ) Intel .
I used to be a regular Matrox buyer , then ATI and my last 2 cards havebeen Nvidia .
But , since I 'm a solid supporter of opensource and OSS-friendly companies , I bid thee adieu.As a infrequent-to-moderate gamer , I do n't need to have the latest greatest , power-sucking , screen-sizzling framerates and , in any case , ATI is neck-and-neckanyhow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
  but, going forward, it'll be either ATI or, (much less likely) Intel.
I used to be a regular Matrox buyer, then ATI and my last 2 cards havebeen Nvidia.
But, since I'm a solid supporter of opensource and OSS-friendly companies, I bid thee adieu.As a infrequent-to-moderate gamer, I don't need to have the latest greatest, power-sucking, screen-sizzling framerates and, in any case, ATI is neck-and-neckanyhow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635406</id>
	<title>How good is ATI's 3D open source driver?</title>
	<author>pyite69</author>
	<datestamp>1269614580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have been waiting in anticipation for ATI's driver to be usable.  I play Warcraft and use VDPAU so I will unfortunately have a tough time being an early adopter<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been waiting in anticipation for ATI 's driver to be usable .
I play Warcraft and use VDPAU so I will unfortunately have a tough time being an early adopter : (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been waiting in anticipation for ATI's driver to be usable.
I play Warcraft and use VDPAU so I will unfortunately have a tough time being an early adopter :(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633900</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL.  The only reason ATI and NVidia even have drivers for Linux is because of the workstation market.  With OS X essentially killing off what little Linux was ever used in academia and industry, it is only a matter of time before Nvidia and ATI drop all their Linux drivers, even if all 5 of you using Linux on your desktops stop buying their products.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
The only reason ATI and NVidia even have drivers for Linux is because of the workstation market .
With OS X essentially killing off what little Linux was ever used in academia and industry , it is only a matter of time before Nvidia and ATI drop all their Linux drivers , even if all 5 of you using Linux on your desktops stop buying their products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
The only reason ATI and NVidia even have drivers for Linux is because of the workstation market.
With OS X essentially killing off what little Linux was ever used in academia and industry, it is only a matter of time before Nvidia and ATI drop all their Linux drivers, even if all 5 of you using Linux on your desktops stop buying their products.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633864</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>JoeBuck</author>
	<datestamp>1269604980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How is that relevant?  Those dozens of users can use the proprietary Linux nVidia driver, which is not being discontinued, and has a lot of the same code in it as the Windows driver. The discontinued driver is an obsolete 2-D only hack; free software purists can use Nouveau, so who cares?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is that relevant ?
Those dozens of users can use the proprietary Linux nVidia driver , which is not being discontinued , and has a lot of the same code in it as the Windows driver .
The discontinued driver is an obsolete 2-D only hack ; free software purists can use Nouveau , so who cares ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is that relevant?
Those dozens of users can use the proprietary Linux nVidia driver, which is not being discontinued, and has a lot of the same code in it as the Windows driver.
The discontinued driver is an obsolete 2-D only hack; free software purists can use Nouveau, so who cares?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633928</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1269605280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops (especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop) and other computers that I purchase. This only confirms that decision. I'm not a gamer, but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days.</p></div><p>Alas, the only other real competitor is intel... and if you've ever been "blessed" by using one of their integrated chipsets on a laptop, you'll probably look a lot kinder on your dental visits.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops ( especially - because you ca n't change cards in a laptop ) and other computers that I purchase .
This only confirms that decision .
I 'm not a gamer , but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days.Alas , the only other real competitor is intel... and if you 've ever been " blessed " by using one of their integrated chipsets on a laptop , you 'll probably look a lot kinder on your dental visits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops (especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop) and other computers that I purchase.
This only confirms that decision.
I'm not a gamer, but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days.Alas, the only other real competitor is intel... and if you've ever been "blessed" by using one of their integrated chipsets on a laptop, you'll probably look a lot kinder on your dental visits.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633918</id>
	<title>nVidia also ran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is nVidia turning into an "also-ran"?  I'm not stating, I'm asking.  The reason they are "protecting" their drivers is because it "contains" proprietary secrets.  If I'm not mistaken Ati is kicking their ass right now so is their strategy paying off for them?  nVidia spent a lot of money promoting themselves in game title screens while arguably Ati just went out and built better hardware.  Perhaps nVidia needs to refocus on "technical" advances instead of "marketing" ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is nVidia turning into an " also-ran " ?
I 'm not stating , I 'm asking .
The reason they are " protecting " their drivers is because it " contains " proprietary secrets .
If I 'm not mistaken Ati is kicking their ass right now so is their strategy paying off for them ?
nVidia spent a lot of money promoting themselves in game title screens while arguably Ati just went out and built better hardware .
Perhaps nVidia needs to refocus on " technical " advances instead of " marketing " ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is nVidia turning into an "also-ran"?
I'm not stating, I'm asking.
The reason they are "protecting" their drivers is because it "contains" proprietary secrets.
If I'm not mistaken Ati is kicking their ass right now so is their strategy paying off for them?
nVidia spent a lot of money promoting themselves in game title screens while arguably Ati just went out and built better hardware.
Perhaps nVidia needs to refocus on "technical" advances instead of "marketing" ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634140</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>frist</author>
	<datestamp>1269606720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They do and so they developed Linux drivers for those dozens of users. They're just not open-sourcing them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They do and so they developed Linux drivers for those dozens of users .
They 're just not open-sourcing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They do and so they developed Linux drivers for those dozens of users.
They're just not open-sourcing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31641610</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>bingoUV</author>
	<datestamp>1269719580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here is a <a href="http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Metaphysics\_Identity.html" title="importance...osophy.com" rel="nofollow">link</a> [importance...osophy.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is a link [ importance...osophy.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is a link [importance...osophy.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638192</id>
	<title>Re:Why isn't there a generic driver format?</title>
	<author>RichiH</author>
	<datestamp>1269689820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why don't we have a generic driver format</p></div><p>We do. It's called VESA.</p><p>Sure, it would be nice if everything was as interchangeable (to some extent) as the CPU, RAM and HDD. But if you stop and think about it, pretty much everything else needs custom drivers geared towards whatever chip is running it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't we have a generic driver formatWe do .
It 's called VESA.Sure , it would be nice if everything was as interchangeable ( to some extent ) as the CPU , RAM and HDD .
But if you stop and think about it , pretty much everything else needs custom drivers geared towards whatever chip is running it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't we have a generic driver formatWe do.
It's called VESA.Sure, it would be nice if everything was as interchangeable (to some extent) as the CPU, RAM and HDD.
But if you stop and think about it, pretty much everything else needs custom drivers geared towards whatever chip is running it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633944</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637556</id>
	<title>Re:So what happens to HPC with NVIDIA cards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269722280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The status is the same as it ever was. The nv driver never supported anything but basic modesetting. Any other uses of Nvidia hardware have always been, and continue to be, supported by the BLOB.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The status is the same as it ever was .
The nv driver never supported anything but basic modesetting .
Any other uses of Nvidia hardware have always been , and continue to be , supported by the BLOB .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The status is the same as it ever was.
The nv driver never supported anything but basic modesetting.
Any other uses of Nvidia hardware have always been, and continue to be, supported by the BLOB.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634108</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269606420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then you might as well use the closed source driver. This does not change their position on that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then you might as well use the closed source driver .
This does not change their position on that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then you might as well use the closed source driver.
This does not change their position on that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634480</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Ant P.</author>
	<datestamp>1269608880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Neither of those are an either-or situation.</p><p>Intel has the joke known as GMA500 - as well supported as a winmodem, and about as useful in this day and age compared to nVidia's Ion chips; AMD has its own people contributing to xf86-video-ati, which is good enough to do actual gaming on now. It's not as fast as fglrx, but then it doesn't leak 10MB of RAM per second either.</p><p>The closest you'd get to what you're describing is Via. Their binary drivers are worthless on any OS, and they've been screwing FOSS devs around for so long with vapourware announcements of documentation that nobody really noticed when it finally showed up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Neither of those are an either-or situation.Intel has the joke known as GMA500 - as well supported as a winmodem , and about as useful in this day and age compared to nVidia 's Ion chips ; AMD has its own people contributing to xf86-video-ati , which is good enough to do actual gaming on now .
It 's not as fast as fglrx , but then it does n't leak 10MB of RAM per second either.The closest you 'd get to what you 're describing is Via .
Their binary drivers are worthless on any OS , and they 've been screwing FOSS devs around for so long with vapourware announcements of documentation that nobody really noticed when it finally showed up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neither of those are an either-or situation.Intel has the joke known as GMA500 - as well supported as a winmodem, and about as useful in this day and age compared to nVidia's Ion chips; AMD has its own people contributing to xf86-video-ati, which is good enough to do actual gaming on now.
It's not as fast as fglrx, but then it doesn't leak 10MB of RAM per second either.The closest you'd get to what you're describing is Via.
Their binary drivers are worthless on any OS, and they've been screwing FOSS devs around for so long with vapourware announcements of documentation that nobody really noticed when it finally showed up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633952</id>
	<title>Slow news day?</title>
	<author>ChunderDownunder</author>
	<datestamp>1269605460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As nouveau reaches maturity, nvidia is simply putting the 'nv' driver out of its misery.</p><p>Were nvidia to discontinue its binary driver, now that would be news but it isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As nouveau reaches maturity , nvidia is simply putting the 'nv ' driver out of its misery.Were nvidia to discontinue its binary driver , now that would be news but it is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As nouveau reaches maturity, nvidia is simply putting the 'nv' driver out of its misery.Were nvidia to discontinue its binary driver, now that would be news but it isn't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634258</id>
	<title>Re:Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>Arker</author>
	<datestamp>1269607380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is no time or cost because no one wants them to write a free driver. Others are more than willing to write and maintain the driver for them for free. All they need to do to have their hardware properly supported is quit obfuscating the necessary communication protocols used to access the more advanced functions of the cards.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no time or cost because no one wants them to write a free driver .
Others are more than willing to write and maintain the driver for them for free .
All they need to do to have their hardware properly supported is quit obfuscating the necessary communication protocols used to access the more advanced functions of the cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no time or cost because no one wants them to write a free driver.
Others are more than willing to write and maintain the driver for them for free.
All they need to do to have their hardware properly supported is quit obfuscating the necessary communication protocols used to access the more advanced functions of the cards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638824</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>GigaplexNZ</author>
	<datestamp>1269698760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You meant "buy <b>ATI</b> video cards".</p></div><p>Just bought a 5670 recently to replace a dying NVIDIA card.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...the open source one runs smooth as a baby's cheek. Granted, 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases...</p></div><p>Even bleeding edge trunk doesn't have anything remotely close to 2D let alone 3D for 5000 series cards.
<br> <br>
Yes, I knew about the state of the drivers before I bought the card. Luckily, I have Intel graphics for when I want to play with Linux, and it works beautifully. I agree with the original sentiment, buy <b>Intel</b> video hardware.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You meant " buy ATI video cards " .Just bought a 5670 recently to replace a dying NVIDIA card .
...the open source one runs smooth as a baby 's cheek .
Granted , 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases...Even bleeding edge trunk does n't have anything remotely close to 2D let alone 3D for 5000 series cards .
Yes , I knew about the state of the drivers before I bought the card .
Luckily , I have Intel graphics for when I want to play with Linux , and it works beautifully .
I agree with the original sentiment , buy Intel video hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You meant "buy ATI video cards".Just bought a 5670 recently to replace a dying NVIDIA card.
...the open source one runs smooth as a baby's cheek.
Granted, 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases...Even bleeding edge trunk doesn't have anything remotely close to 2D let alone 3D for 5000 series cards.
Yes, I knew about the state of the drivers before I bought the card.
Luckily, I have Intel graphics for when I want to play with Linux, and it works beautifully.
I agree with the original sentiment, buy Intel video hardware.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635344</id>
	<title>So use the proprietary driver</title>
	<author>d\_jedi</author>
	<datestamp>1269614160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem solved.. with only the fanatical FSF zealots still up in arms..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem solved.. with only the fanatical FSF zealots still up in arms. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem solved.. with only the fanatical FSF zealots still up in arms..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635248</id>
	<title>Re:No surprise</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1269613620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nvidia has supported FreeBSD both 32 and 64 bit for years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nvidia has supported FreeBSD both 32 and 64 bit for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nvidia has supported FreeBSD both 32 and 64 bit for years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634034</id>
	<title>rasterizing is on it's way out anyway</title>
	<author>B.Stolk</author>
	<datestamp>1269605940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, it's a good thing that rasterizing is on its way out anyway.<br>Scanlined triangles is not the way to go forward. It is slow at high polycounts. O(N).<br>With high enough polygon counts, raytracing is actually faster, and you can do that on your multicore or Cell SPUs.<br>There is no more need for shader hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , it 's a good thing that rasterizing is on its way out anyway.Scanlined triangles is not the way to go forward .
It is slow at high polycounts .
O ( N ) .With high enough polygon counts , raytracing is actually faster , and you can do that on your multicore or Cell SPUs.There is no more need for shader hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, it's a good thing that rasterizing is on its way out anyway.Scanlined triangles is not the way to go forward.
It is slow at high polycounts.
O(N).With high enough polygon counts, raytracing is actually faster, and you can do that on your multicore or Cell SPUs.There is no more need for shader hardware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635544</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1269615300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If i wanted stable 2d support, why would I buy ANY 3d accelerator?  Just buy intel onboard?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If i wanted stable 2d support , why would I buy ANY 3d accelerator ?
Just buy intel onboard ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If i wanted stable 2d support, why would I buy ANY 3d accelerator?
Just buy intel onboard?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634592</id>
	<title>Everyone wins, kinda</title>
	<author>ezekiel683</author>
	<datestamp>1269609540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its been stated before in interviews with NVIDIA developers that their drivers do share a common code base between all platforms. And as much as i would like to see their own 100\% open source driver, I do understand there is likely licensing issues that prohibits that, as well as competitive concerns in releasing the source.<br>Mostly however I hope they keep their promise of 'not helping but nor hindering' the Nouveau project (I mean obviously more on the nor hindering part) Plus I how they would be of any gain by trying to hinder? other than causing a bad relations shit storm amongst the already divided opinions.<br>As for Noveau, it seems from my own and other experiences from Arch Linux forums that its as good as if not better than the xorg-nv driver anyway.<br>Seems they win mostly by not having to spend any development time on it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its been stated before in interviews with NVIDIA developers that their drivers do share a common code base between all platforms .
And as much as i would like to see their own 100 \ % open source driver , I do understand there is likely licensing issues that prohibits that , as well as competitive concerns in releasing the source.Mostly however I hope they keep their promise of 'not helping but nor hindering ' the Nouveau project ( I mean obviously more on the nor hindering part ) Plus I how they would be of any gain by trying to hinder ?
other than causing a bad relations shit storm amongst the already divided opinions.As for Noveau , it seems from my own and other experiences from Arch Linux forums that its as good as if not better than the xorg-nv driver anyway.Seems they win mostly by not having to spend any development time on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its been stated before in interviews with NVIDIA developers that their drivers do share a common code base between all platforms.
And as much as i would like to see their own 100\% open source driver, I do understand there is likely licensing issues that prohibits that, as well as competitive concerns in releasing the source.Mostly however I hope they keep their promise of 'not helping but nor hindering' the Nouveau project (I mean obviously more on the nor hindering part) Plus I how they would be of any gain by trying to hinder?
other than causing a bad relations shit storm amongst the already divided opinions.As for Noveau, it seems from my own and other experiences from Arch Linux forums that its as good as if not better than the xorg-nv driver anyway.Seems they win mostly by not having to spend any development time on it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31639084</id>
	<title>So long as they supply support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269701280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For things like FreeBSD or even more 'out there' stuff like Hiku or GNU/Hurd - fine.</p><p>Considering it took them years to support FreeeBSD 7 and 64 bit - I guess I don't need to worry about voting with my dollars and buying their products in the future.</p><p>And at some point I'll have to start stocking up on the GPUs that can do things like hash cracking.  *sigh*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For things like FreeBSD or even more 'out there ' stuff like Hiku or GNU/Hurd - fine.Considering it took them years to support FreeeBSD 7 and 64 bit - I guess I do n't need to worry about voting with my dollars and buying their products in the future.And at some point I 'll have to start stocking up on the GPUs that can do things like hash cracking .
* sigh *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For things like FreeBSD or even more 'out there' stuff like Hiku or GNU/Hurd - fine.Considering it took them years to support FreeeBSD 7 and 64 bit - I guess I don't need to worry about voting with my dollars and buying their products in the future.And at some point I'll have to start stocking up on the GPUs that can do things like hash cracking.
*sigh*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31669146</id>
	<title>Proprietary driver will still be supported</title>
	<author>apexwm</author>
	<datestamp>1269957420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For years I've purchased nVidia cards because of their support for Unix/Linux.  Yes there is Noveau (the full open source and integrated driver), however the full nVidia proprietary driver gives excellent performance and it's rock solid.  I didn't even know that nVidia had an open source driver of their own.  As others stated, there is no need to worry since nVidia will continue to support their proprietary driver.  Yes, it's proprietary, but unfortunately we have no other choice when it comes to solid performance.  Hopefully someday they might release the code for their proprietary driver and convert it to open source, but I'm guessing that's unlikely.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For years I 've purchased nVidia cards because of their support for Unix/Linux .
Yes there is Noveau ( the full open source and integrated driver ) , however the full nVidia proprietary driver gives excellent performance and it 's rock solid .
I did n't even know that nVidia had an open source driver of their own .
As others stated , there is no need to worry since nVidia will continue to support their proprietary driver .
Yes , it 's proprietary , but unfortunately we have no other choice when it comes to solid performance .
Hopefully someday they might release the code for their proprietary driver and convert it to open source , but I 'm guessing that 's unlikely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For years I've purchased nVidia cards because of their support for Unix/Linux.
Yes there is Noveau (the full open source and integrated driver), however the full nVidia proprietary driver gives excellent performance and it's rock solid.
I didn't even know that nVidia had an open source driver of their own.
As others stated, there is no need to worry since nVidia will continue to support their proprietary driver.
Yes, it's proprietary, but unfortunately we have no other choice when it comes to solid performance.
Hopefully someday they might release the code for their proprietary driver and convert it to open source, but I'm guessing that's unlikely.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634084</id>
	<title>ok, Im confused</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does nVidia have a proprietary driver for their video card for Linux? Or is it just the Open Source one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does nVidia have a proprietary driver for their video card for Linux ?
Or is it just the Open Source one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does nVidia have a proprietary driver for their video card for Linux?
Or is it just the Open Source one?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638172</id>
	<title>Because Linux is not Windows?</title>
	<author>RichiH</author>
	<datestamp>1269689520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why should I go through all that? Windows does things one way, Linux another.</p><p>apt-get/aptitude is my one-stop solution for all software installation/upgrade/removal and, sometimes, downgrade.</p><p>Same as the Linux kernel is my one-stop solution for all drivers. Everything, that is, besides 3D drivers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should I go through all that ?
Windows does things one way , Linux another.apt-get/aptitude is my one-stop solution for all software installation/upgrade/removal and , sometimes , downgrade.Same as the Linux kernel is my one-stop solution for all drivers .
Everything , that is , besides 3D drivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why should I go through all that?
Windows does things one way, Linux another.apt-get/aptitude is my one-stop solution for all software installation/upgrade/removal and, sometimes, downgrade.Same as the Linux kernel is my one-stop solution for all drivers.
Everything, that is, besides 3D drivers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637222</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>marsu\_k</author>
	<datestamp>1269629340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or you could simply change your distribution. "pacman -S nvidia" has always worked for me in Arch. I'm willing to bet this applies to many other distributions as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you could simply change your distribution .
" pacman -S nvidia " has always worked for me in Arch .
I 'm willing to bet this applies to many other distributions as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you could simply change your distribution.
"pacman -S nvidia" has always worked for me in Arch.
I'm willing to bet this applies to many other distributions as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633754</id>
	<title>Huh?</title>
	<author>msauve</author>
	<datestamp>1269604380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Nvidia's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver.</p></div></blockquote><p>What does that mean? Is the "X.Org VESA driver" now a web browser?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nvidia 's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver.What does that mean ?
Is the " X.Org VESA driver " now a web browser ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nvidia's recommendation is to just use the generic X.Org VESA driver to navigate their way to nvidia.com so that they can install the proprietary driver.What does that mean?
Is the "X.Org VESA driver" now a web browser?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31640440</id>
	<title>Unlike ATI...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269711840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nVidia is not in DIRE need of MUCH better Xorg drivers.  Oh the joys I've had with a nb + 4850 + linux in the year that I've owned it... never another ATI product again...</p><p>The Windows drivers aren't quite as good as nVidia's are either.  There a couple apps/games that have problem in VERY specific areas, probably some corner case that ATI's driver crew handled poorly.  Likely because recently, they ONLY seem to be chasing the latest and greatest apps/games an, apparently, saying to hell with anything older than a few months.  It's the ONLY product that I've EVER owned where I've looked out for new drivers EVERY month hoping for fixes, whereas with other hw I've tended to go quite some time between driver updates and then only when a problem occurred which was, generally, fixed by the time of the latest driver...</p><p>GTX480 here I come.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nVidia is not in DIRE need of MUCH better Xorg drivers .
Oh the joys I 've had with a nb + 4850 + linux in the year that I 've owned it... never another ATI product again...The Windows drivers are n't quite as good as nVidia 's are either .
There a couple apps/games that have problem in VERY specific areas , probably some corner case that ATI 's driver crew handled poorly .
Likely because recently , they ONLY seem to be chasing the latest and greatest apps/games an , apparently , saying to hell with anything older than a few months .
It 's the ONLY product that I 've EVER owned where I 've looked out for new drivers EVERY month hoping for fixes , whereas with other hw I 've tended to go quite some time between driver updates and then only when a problem occurred which was , generally , fixed by the time of the latest driver...GTX480 here I come .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nVidia is not in DIRE need of MUCH better Xorg drivers.
Oh the joys I've had with a nb + 4850 + linux in the year that I've owned it... never another ATI product again...The Windows drivers aren't quite as good as nVidia's are either.
There a couple apps/games that have problem in VERY specific areas, probably some corner case that ATI's driver crew handled poorly.
Likely because recently, they ONLY seem to be chasing the latest and greatest apps/games an, apparently, saying to hell with anything older than a few months.
It's the ONLY product that I've EVER owned where I've looked out for new drivers EVERY month hoping for fixes, whereas with other hw I've tended to go quite some time between driver updates and then only when a problem occurred which was, generally, fixed by the time of the latest driver...GTX480 here I come.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card. Let us know how you get on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card .
Let us know how you get on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card.
Let us know how you get on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634204</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1269607080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop</p></div></blockquote><p>Actually you can, it "just" requires that the laptop uses <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MXM" title="wikipedia.org">MXM</a> [wikipedia.org] modules. Granted, MXM modules aren't exactly easy to find, and there aren't that many notebook models using them, but you <b>can</b> in fact swap graphics adapters in laptops.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>especially - because you ca n't change cards in a laptopActually you can , it " just " requires that the laptop uses MXM [ wikipedia.org ] modules .
Granted , MXM modules are n't exactly easy to find , and there are n't that many notebook models using them , but you can in fact swap graphics adapters in laptops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>especially - because you can't change cards in a laptopActually you can, it "just" requires that the laptop uses MXM [wikipedia.org] modules.
Granted, MXM modules aren't exactly easy to find, and there aren't that many notebook models using them, but you can in fact swap graphics adapters in laptops.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634456</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269608760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, AMD has released many programming specifications and sponsors the Free <i>radeonhd</i> drivers. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics\_hardware\_and\_FOSS#ATI.2FAMD" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics\_hardware\_and\_FOSS#ATI.2FAMD</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , AMD has released many programming specifications and sponsors the Free radeonhd drivers .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics \ _hardware \ _and \ _FOSS # ATI.2FAMD [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, AMD has released many programming specifications and sponsors the Free radeonhd drivers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics\_hardware\_and\_FOSS#ATI.2FAMD [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31654548</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269856560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GPL does not prohibit shipping proprietary drivers, nVidia prohibits it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPL does not prohibit shipping proprietary drivers , nVidia prohibits it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPL does not prohibit shipping proprietary drivers, nVidia prohibits it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634806</id>
	<title>Who cares?</title>
	<author>assert(0)</author>
	<datestamp>1269611040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DirectX being proprietary and Wine unable to Not Emulate it, might you not as well go with nvidias blob and OpenGL? At least the screensavers look good. Well, some of them.

3D is so 2000. What we need is fast 2D. Wayland and nouveau may be the future. xf86-video-nv never was.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DirectX being proprietary and Wine unable to Not Emulate it , might you not as well go with nvidias blob and OpenGL ?
At least the screensavers look good .
Well , some of them .
3D is so 2000 .
What we need is fast 2D .
Wayland and nouveau may be the future .
xf86-video-nv never was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DirectX being proprietary and Wine unable to Not Emulate it, might you not as well go with nvidias blob and OpenGL?
At least the screensavers look good.
Well, some of them.
3D is so 2000.
What we need is fast 2D.
Wayland and nouveau may be the future.
xf86-video-nv never was.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633828</id>
	<title>This isn't a big deal</title>
	<author>JoeBuck</author>
	<datestamp>1269604860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>By this point, Nouveau beats the old nVidia open-source driver, so everyone would want to run either Nouveau or the proprietary nVidia driver.  There's no real reason to support the obsolete, limited xf86-video-nv any more (though it's not going away).</htmltext>
<tokenext>By this point , Nouveau beats the old nVidia open-source driver , so everyone would want to run either Nouveau or the proprietary nVidia driver .
There 's no real reason to support the obsolete , limited xf86-video-nv any more ( though it 's not going away ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By this point, Nouveau beats the old nVidia open-source driver, so everyone would want to run either Nouveau or the proprietary nVidia driver.
There's no real reason to support the obsolete, limited xf86-video-nv any more (though it's not going away).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637464</id>
	<title>Re:Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1269720420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> Where do you find people crunching numbers? Windows? OSX?</p></div> </blockquote><p>I don't know how top500 gets their information, but I know quite a few scientists that use OSX for number crunching. As a matter a fact, I know some that use windows too. But the Mac Pros do it faster and with style<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
</p><p>In fact as I write this another group of scientists that aren't affiliated with us, are working in the same hangar and they appear to be using nothing but Macs. So I think there's enough anecdotal evidence to say yes OS X is being used for very serious number crunching.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where do you find people crunching numbers ?
Windows ? OSX ?
I do n't know how top500 gets their information , but I know quite a few scientists that use OSX for number crunching .
As a matter a fact , I know some that use windows too .
But the Mac Pros do it faster and with style ; ) In fact as I write this another group of scientists that are n't affiliated with us , are working in the same hangar and they appear to be using nothing but Macs .
So I think there 's enough anecdotal evidence to say yes OS X is being used for very serious number crunching .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Where do you find people crunching numbers?
Windows? OSX?
I don't know how top500 gets their information, but I know quite a few scientists that use OSX for number crunching.
As a matter a fact, I know some that use windows too.
But the Mac Pros do it faster and with style ;)
In fact as I write this another group of scientists that aren't affiliated with us, are working in the same hangar and they appear to be using nothing but Macs.
So I think there's enough anecdotal evidence to say yes OS X is being used for very serious number crunching.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634106</id>
	<title>Re:Open matters.....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have real problems here. For everyone that's use a accelerated GPU to gaming and not for serious GPU programming, I can't see big issues here. But if you needs a really good GPU programming environment, then the only ones thats offers are NVIDIA. For example, ATI Radeon driver / GLSL compiler are very buggy. And in all platforms, not just in Linux. Are pretty easy to see messages from compiler that's means nothing. Something like your C compiler telling you "sintax error", but without line number and what's happening. I've not tested Nouveau for this job, but I really think will not work properly. Sincerely, I dislike binary blobs too, but I'm afraid professional GPU programmers will not have any other option. That's are really bad. If you dislike Linux and prefers FreeBSD or OpenSolaris for any reason? You have the driver, but not CUDA support. And if you have a Mac? Bugs in driver from NVIDIA will pretty stop you playing. NVIDIA really do a very good job on hardware, but the software are pretty targeted only to Windows platform. I don't know others here, but I'll not be comfortable with a Windows powered rendering station. Not to do really hard job ( render geo and medical data, for example ).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have real problems here .
For everyone that 's use a accelerated GPU to gaming and not for serious GPU programming , I ca n't see big issues here .
But if you needs a really good GPU programming environment , then the only ones thats offers are NVIDIA .
For example , ATI Radeon driver / GLSL compiler are very buggy .
And in all platforms , not just in Linux .
Are pretty easy to see messages from compiler that 's means nothing .
Something like your C compiler telling you " sintax error " , but without line number and what 's happening .
I 've not tested Nouveau for this job , but I really think will not work properly .
Sincerely , I dislike binary blobs too , but I 'm afraid professional GPU programmers will not have any other option .
That 's are really bad .
If you dislike Linux and prefers FreeBSD or OpenSolaris for any reason ?
You have the driver , but not CUDA support .
And if you have a Mac ?
Bugs in driver from NVIDIA will pretty stop you playing .
NVIDIA really do a very good job on hardware , but the software are pretty targeted only to Windows platform .
I do n't know others here , but I 'll not be comfortable with a Windows powered rendering station .
Not to do really hard job ( render geo and medical data , for example ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have real problems here.
For everyone that's use a accelerated GPU to gaming and not for serious GPU programming, I can't see big issues here.
But if you needs a really good GPU programming environment, then the only ones thats offers are NVIDIA.
For example, ATI Radeon driver / GLSL compiler are very buggy.
And in all platforms, not just in Linux.
Are pretty easy to see messages from compiler that's means nothing.
Something like your C compiler telling you "sintax error", but without line number and what's happening.
I've not tested Nouveau for this job, but I really think will not work properly.
Sincerely, I dislike binary blobs too, but I'm afraid professional GPU programmers will not have any other option.
That's are really bad.
If you dislike Linux and prefers FreeBSD or OpenSolaris for any reason?
You have the driver, but not CUDA support.
And if you have a Mac?
Bugs in driver from NVIDIA will pretty stop you playing.
NVIDIA really do a very good job on hardware, but the software are pretty targeted only to Windows platform.
I don't know others here, but I'll not be comfortable with a Windows powered rendering station.
Not to do really hard job ( render geo and medical data, for example ).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634032</id>
	<title>punish with your wallet</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1269605940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They screwed me with the nvlddmkm driver.  I won't patronize them.  The open source community should do the same.  They will only change their f***** behavior when it hurts ecnomically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They screwed me with the nvlddmkm driver .
I wo n't patronize them .
The open source community should do the same .
They will only change their f * * * * * behavior when it hurts ecnomically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They screwed me with the nvlddmkm driver.
I won't patronize them.
The open source community should do the same.
They will only change their f***** behavior when it hurts ecnomically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635692</id>
	<title>Re:How good is ATI's 3D open source driver?</title>
	<author>owlstead</author>
	<datestamp>1269616200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last checked 3 months ago, at that time it ****** balls, can't call it anything different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last checked 3 months ago , at that time it * * * * * * balls , ca n't call it anything different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last checked 3 months ago, at that time it ****** balls, can't call it anything different.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637824</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269683760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A legally-binding decision not to sue is a legally binding decision not to sue</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Got a link?
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A legally-binding decision not to sue is a legally binding decision not to sue Got a link ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A legally-binding decision not to sue is a legally binding decision not to sue

Got a link?

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634082</id>
	<title>News to me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know what the hell you people are talking about, but nVidia was and is supported extrememly well under linux by their own driver package you can get right off the website. Yes they have to compile code on your machine most of the time but I've found it to be stable and reliable for all the nvidia boards I've used. And it's opengl support appears great too.. running WoW under Wine for example is a killer example of what it can do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know what the hell you people are talking about , but nVidia was and is supported extrememly well under linux by their own driver package you can get right off the website .
Yes they have to compile code on your machine most of the time but I 've found it to be stable and reliable for all the nvidia boards I 've used .
And it 's opengl support appears great too.. running WoW under Wine for example is a killer example of what it can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know what the hell you people are talking about, but nVidia was and is supported extrememly well under linux by their own driver package you can get right off the website.
Yes they have to compile code on your machine most of the time but I've found it to be stable and reliable for all the nvidia boards I've used.
And it's opengl support appears great too.. running WoW under Wine for example is a killer example of what it can do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634754</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1269610740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You meant "buy <b>ATI</b> video cards". All the complains about their drivers being buggy, unstable pieces of crap that can't even display a full-screen video without causing a kernel panic? the propietary driver, the open source one runs smooth as a baby's cheek. Granted, 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases (I believe the last cards they support are the 3x00 series), but support *is* coming and meanwhile, 2D performance is flawless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You meant " buy ATI video cards " .
All the complains about their drivers being buggy , unstable pieces of crap that ca n't even display a full-screen video without causing a kernel panic ?
the propietary driver , the open source one runs smooth as a baby 's cheek .
Granted , 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases ( I believe the last cards they support are the 3x00 series ) , but support * is * coming and meanwhile , 2D performance is flawless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You meant "buy ATI video cards".
All the complains about their drivers being buggy, unstable pieces of crap that can't even display a full-screen video without causing a kernel panic?
the propietary driver, the open source one runs smooth as a baby's cheek.
Granted, 3D acceleration support is kinda outdated if you only follow the stable releases (I believe the last cards they support are the 3x00 series), but support *is* coming and meanwhile, 2D performance is flawless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634236</id>
	<title>mod D0wn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>than this BSD box, rival distribu#tion, of open-source. NetBSD posts on at times. From hype - BSD's grandstanders, the everything else</htmltext>
<tokenext>than this BSD box , rival distribu # tion , of open-source .
NetBSD posts on at times .
From hype - BSD 's grandstanders , the everything else</tokentext>
<sentencetext>than this BSD box, rival distribu#tion, of open-source.
NetBSD posts on at times.
From hype - BSD's grandstanders, the everything else</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633752</id>
	<title>So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269604380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is this a surprise?<br>This is about as newsworthy as mono being a patent minefield and a bad idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this a surprise ? This is about as newsworthy as mono being a patent minefield and a bad idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this a surprise?This is about as newsworthy as mono being a patent minefield and a bad idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634012</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only people who insist on having an open-source driver will have problems with this move. People who still appreciate a free, stable, 3D-accelerating driver, albeit a closed-source version, have nothing to worry about. I can't believe you've been modded insightful, since your statement in no way highlights the differences between these two perspectives, which are the only reason why this article even matters. The article does not in any way state that nVidia will stop providing drivers to support 3D rendering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only people who insist on having an open-source driver will have problems with this move .
People who still appreciate a free , stable , 3D-accelerating driver , albeit a closed-source version , have nothing to worry about .
I ca n't believe you 've been modded insightful , since your statement in no way highlights the differences between these two perspectives , which are the only reason why this article even matters .
The article does not in any way state that nVidia will stop providing drivers to support 3D rendering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only people who insist on having an open-source driver will have problems with this move.
People who still appreciate a free, stable, 3D-accelerating driver, albeit a closed-source version, have nothing to worry about.
I can't believe you've been modded insightful, since your statement in no way highlights the differences between these two perspectives, which are the only reason why this article even matters.
The article does not in any way state that nVidia will stop providing drivers to support 3D rendering.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634158</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1269606780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have just one question: Why? If it's a choice between Catalyst (AMD's binary driver) and nVidia's binary driver, I'd take nVidia any day of the week on any platform. The two reasons I have a HD5850 in this machine is that a) It's a helluva fast card at a decent price for what it is and b) AMD has been opening their specifications and is building an open driver. Right now though my experience is that the binary driver under Windows is still buggy - far buggier than nVidia, and so far there's no 2D/3D acceleration with the open source drivers under Linux (for this series, r100-r700 has varying degrees of support) but I knew that before I purchased it. The driver is really the last reason I'd want to ditch nVidia, sure they are 100\% closed source but being what it is it's very good. Not perfect or anything, but the competition certainly isn't either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have just one question : Why ?
If it 's a choice between Catalyst ( AMD 's binary driver ) and nVidia 's binary driver , I 'd take nVidia any day of the week on any platform .
The two reasons I have a HD5850 in this machine is that a ) It 's a helluva fast card at a decent price for what it is and b ) AMD has been opening their specifications and is building an open driver .
Right now though my experience is that the binary driver under Windows is still buggy - far buggier than nVidia , and so far there 's no 2D/3D acceleration with the open source drivers under Linux ( for this series , r100-r700 has varying degrees of support ) but I knew that before I purchased it .
The driver is really the last reason I 'd want to ditch nVidia , sure they are 100 \ % closed source but being what it is it 's very good .
Not perfect or anything , but the competition certainly is n't either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have just one question: Why?
If it's a choice between Catalyst (AMD's binary driver) and nVidia's binary driver, I'd take nVidia any day of the week on any platform.
The two reasons I have a HD5850 in this machine is that a) It's a helluva fast card at a decent price for what it is and b) AMD has been opening their specifications and is building an open driver.
Right now though my experience is that the binary driver under Windows is still buggy - far buggier than nVidia, and so far there's no 2D/3D acceleration with the open source drivers under Linux (for this series, r100-r700 has varying degrees of support) but I knew that before I purchased it.
The driver is really the last reason I'd want to ditch nVidia, sure they are 100\% closed source but being what it is it's very good.
Not perfect or anything, but the competition certainly isn't either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31640418</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269711720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can so legally do this. As a "turn key" box, this case is explicitly covered by the nvidia's binary blob license. SuSE linux comes with it out of the box. <br> <br>
Note that company  are *using* a binary blob nvidia/ati drivers on windows/mac.
<br> <br>
And how exactly can you provide a opengl api system wide that doesn't replace the default mesa ones?
<br> <br>
And stupid claims that calling a library function makes it a derivative product is about Disney as you can get with copyright (aka tainting, yes we got legal advice).
<br> <br>
For the record my friends company just upgraded an animation office to Linux with a full 3d tool set without any issues. All using Nvida.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can so legally do this .
As a " turn key " box , this case is explicitly covered by the nvidia 's binary blob license .
SuSE linux comes with it out of the box .
Note that company are * using * a binary blob nvidia/ati drivers on windows/mac .
And how exactly can you provide a opengl api system wide that does n't replace the default mesa ones ?
And stupid claims that calling a library function makes it a derivative product is about Disney as you can get with copyright ( aka tainting , yes we got legal advice ) .
For the record my friends company just upgraded an animation office to Linux with a full 3d tool set without any issues .
All using Nvida .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can so legally do this.
As a "turn key" box, this case is explicitly covered by the nvidia's binary blob license.
SuSE linux comes with it out of the box.
Note that company  are *using* a binary blob nvidia/ati drivers on windows/mac.
And how exactly can you provide a opengl api system wide that doesn't replace the default mesa ones?
And stupid claims that calling a library function makes it a derivative product is about Disney as you can get with copyright (aka tainting, yes we got legal advice).
For the record my friends company just upgraded an animation office to Linux with a full 3d tool set without any issues.
All using Nvida.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</id>
	<title>Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does Nvidia not know there are literally <i>dozens</i> of Linux users out there clamoring for a stable, high-end gaming environment?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Nvidia not know there are literally dozens of Linux users out there clamoring for a stable , high-end gaming environment ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does Nvidia not know there are literally dozens of Linux users out there clamoring for a stable, high-end gaming environment?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635516</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1269615180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Compiz will run on intel.  You're not in the 3d card market.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Compiz will run on intel .
You 're not in the 3d card market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Compiz will run on intel.
You're not in the 3d card market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633824</id>
	<title>Non-issue really.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use an Nvidia video card with the Nouveau driver on my desktop. Sure, it's not as fast as Nvidia's closed source driver but it works well for me. Fedora 13 will have a Nouveau release with <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news\_item&amp;px=Nzk4MQ" title="phoronix.com" rel="nofollow">out of the box 3D acceleration</a> [phoronix.com] and <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NouveauDisplayPort" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">DisplayPort support</a> [fedoraproject.org] too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use an Nvidia video card with the Nouveau driver on my desktop .
Sure , it 's not as fast as Nvidia 's closed source driver but it works well for me .
Fedora 13 will have a Nouveau release with out of the box 3D acceleration [ phoronix.com ] and DisplayPort support [ fedoraproject.org ] too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use an Nvidia video card with the Nouveau driver on my desktop.
Sure, it's not as fast as Nvidia's closed source driver but it works well for me.
Fedora 13 will have a Nouveau release with out of the box 3D acceleration [phoronix.com] and DisplayPort support [fedoraproject.org] too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635060</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1269612600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know at least 200 CGI artists whose IT department would love to switch to Linux and use economically affordable but quite powerful NVidia cards, and a desktop vendor who lost the sale because they couldn't legally pre-install the NVidia drivers nor rely on the NVidia setups to remain stable. The NVidia installer moves aside OpenGL libraries and replaces them: any software updates that accidentally include fresh OpenGL libraries break the NVidia setup.</p><p>They're testing ATI based video cards right now to try and close the deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know at least 200 CGI artists whose IT department would love to switch to Linux and use economically affordable but quite powerful NVidia cards , and a desktop vendor who lost the sale because they could n't legally pre-install the NVidia drivers nor rely on the NVidia setups to remain stable .
The NVidia installer moves aside OpenGL libraries and replaces them : any software updates that accidentally include fresh OpenGL libraries break the NVidia setup.They 're testing ATI based video cards right now to try and close the deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know at least 200 CGI artists whose IT department would love to switch to Linux and use economically affordable but quite powerful NVidia cards, and a desktop vendor who lost the sale because they couldn't legally pre-install the NVidia drivers nor rely on the NVidia setups to remain stable.
The NVidia installer moves aside OpenGL libraries and replaces them: any software updates that accidentally include fresh OpenGL libraries break the NVidia setup.They're testing ATI based video cards right now to try and close the deal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634124</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, right. You can't change the graphics card in a laptop, because many laptops actually use low profile PCI-Express graphics cards...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , right .
You ca n't change the graphics card in a laptop , because many laptops actually use low profile PCI-Express graphics cards.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, right.
You can't change the graphics card in a laptop, because many laptops actually use low profile PCI-Express graphics cards...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633860</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nvidia is so far the only company that managed to provide a high-quality proprietary Linux driver for their hardware.<br>Others either provide high-quality open source drivers (ex: Intel) or crappy proprietary drivers (AMD/ATI).</p><p>So dozens or not, Nvidia is doing fine as far as Linux-using gamers are concerned. Developers, on the other hand, could use a less hostile stance on documentation and vendor support of open drivers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nvidia is so far the only company that managed to provide a high-quality proprietary Linux driver for their hardware.Others either provide high-quality open source drivers ( ex : Intel ) or crappy proprietary drivers ( AMD/ATI ) .So dozens or not , Nvidia is doing fine as far as Linux-using gamers are concerned .
Developers , on the other hand , could use a less hostile stance on documentation and vendor support of open drivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nvidia is so far the only company that managed to provide a high-quality proprietary Linux driver for their hardware.Others either provide high-quality open source drivers (ex: Intel) or crappy proprietary drivers (AMD/ATI).So dozens or not, Nvidia is doing fine as far as Linux-using gamers are concerned.
Developers, on the other hand, could use a less hostile stance on documentation and vendor support of open drivers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634002</id>
	<title>Corporate culture shows itself sooner or later.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1269605760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and voila. companies may go against their corporate culture in accordance with the needs of the times, but in the long run, they cant avoid showing themselves for what they are. like microsoft blowing with the china-censorship issue and negating all the positive pr they and bill gates tried to do in the last years, nvidia also showed its own nature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and voila .
companies may go against their corporate culture in accordance with the needs of the times , but in the long run , they cant avoid showing themselves for what they are .
like microsoft blowing with the china-censorship issue and negating all the positive pr they and bill gates tried to do in the last years , nvidia also showed its own nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and voila.
companies may go against their corporate culture in accordance with the needs of the times, but in the long run, they cant avoid showing themselves for what they are.
like microsoft blowing with the china-censorship issue and negating all the positive pr they and bill gates tried to do in the last years, nvidia also showed its own nature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635074</id>
	<title>OK, goodbye then.</title>
	<author>SEWilco</author>
	<datestamp>1269612600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see my newest laptop has one of their chips.  Apparently my next ones won't.  Goodbye.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see my newest laptop has one of their chips .
Apparently my next ones wo n't .
Goodbye .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see my newest laptop has one of their chips.
Apparently my next ones won't.
Goodbye.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635538</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>TheGratefulNet</author>
	<datestamp>1269615300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually like nvidia cards.  one big reason (admittedly for windows) is that they include a pretty useful RGB color slider calibration screen, used to correctly set white point and sort of set gamma.  its free, it works and its fast.  yes, its windows only but on laptops (cough) I sometimes do run windows as a dual boot.</p><p>ATI has nothing like this (yet, they would be wise to).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually like nvidia cards .
one big reason ( admittedly for windows ) is that they include a pretty useful RGB color slider calibration screen , used to correctly set white point and sort of set gamma .
its free , it works and its fast .
yes , its windows only but on laptops ( cough ) I sometimes do run windows as a dual boot.ATI has nothing like this ( yet , they would be wise to ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually like nvidia cards.
one big reason (admittedly for windows) is that they include a pretty useful RGB color slider calibration screen, used to correctly set white point and sort of set gamma.
its free, it works and its fast.
yes, its windows only but on laptops (cough) I sometimes do run windows as a dual boot.ATI has nothing like this (yet, they would be wise to).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634202</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There may not be a lot of Linux gamers, there are a *lot* of science/engineering people using (or wanting to use) GPUs to do general purpose computation.  GPGPU a hot topic in some of those communities, and some organizations are spending research money on finding ways to use them.  Looking at the CUDA forums on NVIDIA's site, I see:</p><ul><li>1729 topics under "CUDA on Windows XP" + "CUDA on Vista"</li><li>1689 topics under "CUDA on Linux"</li><li>295 topics under "CUDA on Mac OS X"</li></ul><p>So I really don't think NVIDIA is going to stop providing Linux drivers any time soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There may not be a lot of Linux gamers , there are a * lot * of science/engineering people using ( or wanting to use ) GPUs to do general purpose computation .
GPGPU a hot topic in some of those communities , and some organizations are spending research money on finding ways to use them .
Looking at the CUDA forums on NVIDIA 's site , I see : 1729 topics under " CUDA on Windows XP " + " CUDA on Vista " 1689 topics under " CUDA on Linux " 295 topics under " CUDA on Mac OS X " So I really do n't think NVIDIA is going to stop providing Linux drivers any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There may not be a lot of Linux gamers, there are a *lot* of science/engineering people using (or wanting to use) GPUs to do general purpose computation.
GPGPU a hot topic in some of those communities, and some organizations are spending research money on finding ways to use them.
Looking at the CUDA forums on NVIDIA's site, I see:1729 topics under "CUDA on Windows XP" + "CUDA on Vista"1689 topics under "CUDA on Linux"295 topics under "CUDA on Mac OS X"So I really don't think NVIDIA is going to stop providing Linux drivers any time soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634568</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1269609480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IANAL, but the Mono business has been cleared up (unless there are non-Microsoft patents lurking somewhere).</p><p>A legally-binding decision not to sue <b>is a legally binding decision not to sue</b>.  No respectable judge would even agree to hear the case unless you decided to rip off some bit of code that Microsoft didn't release.</p><p>Mono is safe.  Stop spreading this BS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IANAL , but the Mono business has been cleared up ( unless there are non-Microsoft patents lurking somewhere ) .A legally-binding decision not to sue is a legally binding decision not to sue .
No respectable judge would even agree to hear the case unless you decided to rip off some bit of code that Microsoft did n't release.Mono is safe .
Stop spreading this BS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IANAL, but the Mono business has been cleared up (unless there are non-Microsoft patents lurking somewhere).A legally-binding decision not to sue is a legally binding decision not to sue.
No respectable judge would even agree to hear the case unless you decided to rip off some bit of code that Microsoft didn't release.Mono is safe.
Stop spreading this BS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635118</id>
	<title>and this is a problem because....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269612840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>?  seriously, most open source software on a linux box is not supported by any huge corporation to any great level of detail.  the driver will still be there, it will still work in VESA mode.  to get the best performance you have always had to install the binary driver.  the binary driver, that nvidia have compiled most of will be far easier for them to provide proper support for, as they won't have to deal with idiots compiling it on their overclocked gentoo box with -o9 and then blaming nvidia support/hardware when it crashes and or won't compile.
<p>
if there is a market for a competitive open source friendly (hell, open source hardware) 3d video card, someone will make it.  currently, it does not appear to economically viable to be both open source and competitive, in the 3d hardware world.
</p><p>
Until then, the binary driver will still exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>?
seriously , most open source software on a linux box is not supported by any huge corporation to any great level of detail .
the driver will still be there , it will still work in VESA mode .
to get the best performance you have always had to install the binary driver .
the binary driver , that nvidia have compiled most of will be far easier for them to provide proper support for , as they wo n't have to deal with idiots compiling it on their overclocked gentoo box with -o9 and then blaming nvidia support/hardware when it crashes and or wo n't compile .
if there is a market for a competitive open source friendly ( hell , open source hardware ) 3d video card , someone will make it .
currently , it does not appear to economically viable to be both open source and competitive , in the 3d hardware world .
Until then , the binary driver will still exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>?
seriously, most open source software on a linux box is not supported by any huge corporation to any great level of detail.
the driver will still be there, it will still work in VESA mode.
to get the best performance you have always had to install the binary driver.
the binary driver, that nvidia have compiled most of will be far easier for them to provide proper support for, as they won't have to deal with idiots compiling it on their overclocked gentoo box with -o9 and then blaming nvidia support/hardware when it crashes and or won't compile.
if there is a market for a competitive open source friendly (hell, open source hardware) 3d video card, someone will make it.
currently, it does not appear to economically viable to be both open source and competitive, in the 3d hardware world.
Until then, the binary driver will still exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636714</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>TheSpoom</author>
	<datestamp>1269624180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sure, Vista/7 ships with drivers, and so could Linux if the GPL didn't prohibit it.</p></div><p>What part of the GPL prohibits shipping a completely separately licensed binary with it?  Ubuntu's graphics are more encumbered than the GPL and yet they ship on the CD.</p><p>Now, <i>nVidia's</i> license, that's a more likely reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , Vista/7 ships with drivers , and so could Linux if the GPL did n't prohibit it.What part of the GPL prohibits shipping a completely separately licensed binary with it ?
Ubuntu 's graphics are more encumbered than the GPL and yet they ship on the CD.Now , nVidia 's license , that 's a more likely reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, Vista/7 ships with drivers, and so could Linux if the GPL didn't prohibit it.What part of the GPL prohibits shipping a completely separately licensed binary with it?
Ubuntu's graphics are more encumbered than the GPL and yet they ship on the CD.Now, nVidia's license, that's a more likely reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636476</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1269622020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>nivida is not drooping linux support i think you guys are getting confused. what they are doing is drooping support for the community driver. in other words they are not going to support 2 diffrent linux drivers anymore. as for your laptop comment ati is working on external cards fr laptops a feature they call xgp. so in the next few years your consern of not being able to upgrade the video are going to change. but i agree if you buy a laptop make shure you buy one with a qualty card or you will regret it later unless you dont buy it for gaming wich most laptop owners do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>nivida is not drooping linux support i think you guys are getting confused .
what they are doing is drooping support for the community driver .
in other words they are not going to support 2 diffrent linux drivers anymore .
as for your laptop comment ati is working on external cards fr laptops a feature they call xgp .
so in the next few years your consern of not being able to upgrade the video are going to change .
but i agree if you buy a laptop make shure you buy one with a qualty card or you will regret it later unless you dont buy it for gaming wich most laptop owners do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nivida is not drooping linux support i think you guys are getting confused.
what they are doing is drooping support for the community driver.
in other words they are not going to support 2 diffrent linux drivers anymore.
as for your laptop comment ati is working on external cards fr laptops a feature they call xgp.
so in the next few years your consern of not being able to upgrade the video are going to change.
but i agree if you buy a laptop make shure you buy one with a qualty card or you will regret it later unless you dont buy it for gaming wich most laptop owners do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634454</id>
	<title>Re:Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>tbf</author>
	<datestamp>1269608700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, Linux users might be multiplicators: Many of them are technology affine and therefore their family and friends might ask them for hardware recommendations. So if the Linux user only uses Intel or ATI (s)he'll hardly recommend nVidia cards to their family and friends, not? So probably nVidia managment needs to go back to business school and learn the maths.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , Linux users might be multiplicators : Many of them are technology affine and therefore their family and friends might ask them for hardware recommendations .
So if the Linux user only uses Intel or ATI ( s ) he 'll hardly recommend nVidia cards to their family and friends , not ?
So probably nVidia managment needs to go back to business school and learn the maths .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, Linux users might be multiplicators: Many of them are technology affine and therefore their family and friends might ask them for hardware recommendations.
So if the Linux user only uses Intel or ATI (s)he'll hardly recommend nVidia cards to their family and friends, not?
So probably nVidia managment needs to go back to business school and learn the maths.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635646</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269615840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The people affected by this are those who prefer a feature limited open source driver over a proprietary one.  I highly doubt a closed source game is high on their list of priorities.  That said, it gets <a href="http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-4500MHD-GMA-X4500MHD.9883.0.html" title="notebookcheck.net" rel="nofollow">17 fps</a> [notebookcheck.net].<br> <br>

Personally, I had a pain of a time finding a laptop with h264 hardware acceleration, a screen that would actually benefit from 1080p, and open-source friendly hardware.  But I did that so stuff like this wouldn't affect me, and accepted that I'd have a <a href="http://xkcd.com/606/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">time lag</a> [xkcd.com] with games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The people affected by this are those who prefer a feature limited open source driver over a proprietary one .
I highly doubt a closed source game is high on their list of priorities .
That said , it gets 17 fps [ notebookcheck.net ] .
Personally , I had a pain of a time finding a laptop with h264 hardware acceleration , a screen that would actually benefit from 1080p , and open-source friendly hardware .
But I did that so stuff like this would n't affect me , and accepted that I 'd have a time lag [ xkcd.com ] with games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The people affected by this are those who prefer a feature limited open source driver over a proprietary one.
I highly doubt a closed source game is high on their list of priorities.
That said, it gets 17 fps [notebookcheck.net].
Personally, I had a pain of a time finding a laptop with h264 hardware acceleration, a screen that would actually benefit from 1080p, and open-source friendly hardware.
But I did that so stuff like this wouldn't affect me, and accepted that I'd have a time lag [xkcd.com] with games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633986</id>
	<title>Already out.</title>
	<author>Tubal-Cain</author>
	<datestamp>1269605700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>David Gerard points out that Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33.</p></div><p>Tubal-Cain points out that the use of past tense on "going" was <a href="http://kernel.org/" title="kernel.org" rel="nofollow">unnecessary</a> [kernel.org].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>David Gerard points out that Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33.Tubal-Cain points out that the use of past tense on " going " was unnecessary [ kernel.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>David Gerard points out that Nouveau is going into Linux 2.6.33.Tubal-Cain points out that the use of past tense on "going" was unnecessary [kernel.org].
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634054</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1269606060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With respect, Nvidia is not the problem, software patents are the problem.<br>Nvidia just happens to contain a few people that have already been burnt that way and don't want to release anything that could be used as evidence by a patent troll.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With respect , Nvidia is not the problem , software patents are the problem.Nvidia just happens to contain a few people that have already been burnt that way and do n't want to release anything that could be used as evidence by a patent troll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With respect, Nvidia is not the problem, software patents are the problem.Nvidia just happens to contain a few people that have already been burnt that way and don't want to release anything that could be used as evidence by a patent troll.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637552</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>caroboom</author>
	<datestamp>1269722160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ok, there is a lot of misconceptions here about the obsoleteness of nv.

The nouveau driver is based on 2 main information sources: 1) studying what the nvidia driver does, and 2) deobfuscating things the nv driver does.

The last thing has been very helpful in getting the newer cards to do modesetting for example. Usually nouveau could bring the card up just a few days after some quirck was added to nv to bring up the screen. Now, this info source is dropped. Reading mmiotraces from the blob can tell you similar things, but are a lot more difficult to make sense of and only 2-3 people can do this currently.

This will affect nouveau development, and may actually be a move by NVIDIA to hinder nouveau development (pure speculation this).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , there is a lot of misconceptions here about the obsoleteness of nv .
The nouveau driver is based on 2 main information sources : 1 ) studying what the nvidia driver does , and 2 ) deobfuscating things the nv driver does .
The last thing has been very helpful in getting the newer cards to do modesetting for example .
Usually nouveau could bring the card up just a few days after some quirck was added to nv to bring up the screen .
Now , this info source is dropped .
Reading mmiotraces from the blob can tell you similar things , but are a lot more difficult to make sense of and only 2-3 people can do this currently .
This will affect nouveau development , and may actually be a move by NVIDIA to hinder nouveau development ( pure speculation this ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, there is a lot of misconceptions here about the obsoleteness of nv.
The nouveau driver is based on 2 main information sources: 1) studying what the nvidia driver does, and 2) deobfuscating things the nv driver does.
The last thing has been very helpful in getting the newer cards to do modesetting for example.
Usually nouveau could bring the card up just a few days after some quirck was added to nv to bring up the screen.
Now, this info source is dropped.
Reading mmiotraces from the blob can tell you similar things, but are a lot more difficult to make sense of and only 2-3 people can do this currently.
This will affect nouveau development, and may actually be a move by NVIDIA to hinder nouveau development (pure speculation this).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636316</id>
	<title>Re:Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269620640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Honest question - is it really worth their time (and costs) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux?</p></div></blockquote><p>

How much time does it take to publish the source code of their currently closed binary blob? Nobody asks them to write a <i>different</i> driver that they could open-source, as that would be silly.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honest question - is it really worth their time ( and costs ) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux ?
How much time does it take to publish the source code of their currently closed binary blob ?
Nobody asks them to write a different driver that they could open-source , as that would be silly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honest question - is it really worth their time (and costs) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux?
How much time does it take to publish the source code of their currently closed binary blob?
Nobody asks them to write a different driver that they could open-source, as that would be silly.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635280</id>
	<title>what would danny say</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269613740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ah oh bob saget!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ah oh bob saget ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ah oh bob saget!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634450</id>
	<title>Re:Huh?</title>
	<author>vman1992</author>
	<datestamp>1269608640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was working on a machine that uses that card.
www.dvdinabox.com</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was working on a machine that uses that card .
www.dvdinabox.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was working on a machine that uses that card.
www.dvdinabox.com</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636866</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>LingNoi</author>
	<datestamp>1269625380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So let me get this straight. ATI cards are still crap on linux (like they've always been) yet somehow the open source 3D support is coming soon.</p><p>So I could buy an Nvidia card which has great proprietary driver support for linux games or switch to the open source nouveau driver which has 3D too, or I could buy an ATI card which won't work with anything.. ummm.. this is a difficult decision...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So let me get this straight .
ATI cards are still crap on linux ( like they 've always been ) yet somehow the open source 3D support is coming soon.So I could buy an Nvidia card which has great proprietary driver support for linux games or switch to the open source nouveau driver which has 3D too , or I could buy an ATI card which wo n't work with anything.. ummm.. this is a difficult decision.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So let me get this straight.
ATI cards are still crap on linux (like they've always been) yet somehow the open source 3D support is coming soon.So I could buy an Nvidia card which has great proprietary driver support for linux games or switch to the open source nouveau driver which has 3D too, or I could buy an ATI card which won't work with anything.. ummm.. this is a difficult decision...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638886</id>
	<title>ati chips but diamond media sucks</title>
	<author>stoneturn</author>
	<datestamp>1269699360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For several years, I have been buying ati chips on hardware from various vendors but the field seems to be shrinking.
Recently I got a 4350 card from diamond media at frys and while trying to get
a rebate filed realized that their customer support is non existent.

I will continue with ati but diamond wont get any further business from me. I know
they are quaking in their boots but it seems a lot of customers agree.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For several years , I have been buying ati chips on hardware from various vendors but the field seems to be shrinking .
Recently I got a 4350 card from diamond media at frys and while trying to get a rebate filed realized that their customer support is non existent .
I will continue with ati but diamond wont get any further business from me .
I know they are quaking in their boots but it seems a lot of customers agree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For several years, I have been buying ati chips on hardware from various vendors but the field seems to be shrinking.
Recently I got a 4350 card from diamond media at frys and while trying to get
a rebate filed realized that their customer support is non existent.
I will continue with ati but diamond wont get any further business from me.
I know
they are quaking in their boots but it seems a lot of customers agree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31642516</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>squiggleslash</author>
	<datestamp>1269683640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Sure: <a href="https://www.wtgnh.com/wtgnh/support/chain.jpg" title="wtgnh.com" rel="nofollow">Here's a link</a> [wtgnh.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure : Here 's a link [ wtgnh.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Sure: Here's a link [wtgnh.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633846</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1269604920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Given the design decisions that went into Fermi, one could be forgiven for thinking that Nvidia are completely unaware that there are <i>any</i> users on any platform looking for a gaming environment...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given the design decisions that went into Fermi , one could be forgiven for thinking that Nvidia are completely unaware that there are any users on any platform looking for a gaming environment.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given the design decisions that went into Fermi, one could be forgiven for thinking that Nvidia are completely unaware that there are any users on any platform looking for a gaming environment...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637948</id>
	<title>You could've expected that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269686340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>it's been a long time coming, you could say... they didn't really put that much effort into it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's been a long time coming , you could say... they did n't really put that much effort into it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's been a long time coming, you could say... they didn't really put that much effort into it...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634440</id>
	<title>I've been impressed with nvidia myself..</title>
	<author>nawcom</author>
	<datestamp>1269608580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Them not just providing closed source Linux drivers for x86 32/64, but also covering closed source drivers (that work well!) for x86 32 bit support for Solaris and FreeBSD. Apple actually writes the I/O Kit drivers for NVIDIA cards for their OS and they are known to be a little behind. It would be nice for NVIDIA themselves to cover it but whatever.
<p>As the open source whore that I am I've still preferred NVIDIA, though them suddenly dropping unix based OS support other than Linux will suck horribly. All in all I've just found them to be a great example of a company who wants to keep their technology closed up yet goes the extra mile in keeping their hardware compatible and "controllable" with many different software. Of course other BSD support would be sweet but FreeBSD support is more than enough to stay ahead of other hardware vendors who keep their shit closed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Them not just providing closed source Linux drivers for x86 32/64 , but also covering closed source drivers ( that work well !
) for x86 32 bit support for Solaris and FreeBSD .
Apple actually writes the I/O Kit drivers for NVIDIA cards for their OS and they are known to be a little behind .
It would be nice for NVIDIA themselves to cover it but whatever .
As the open source whore that I am I 've still preferred NVIDIA , though them suddenly dropping unix based OS support other than Linux will suck horribly .
All in all I 've just found them to be a great example of a company who wants to keep their technology closed up yet goes the extra mile in keeping their hardware compatible and " controllable " with many different software .
Of course other BSD support would be sweet but FreeBSD support is more than enough to stay ahead of other hardware vendors who keep their shit closed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Them not just providing closed source Linux drivers for x86 32/64, but also covering closed source drivers (that work well!
) for x86 32 bit support for Solaris and FreeBSD.
Apple actually writes the I/O Kit drivers for NVIDIA cards for their OS and they are known to be a little behind.
It would be nice for NVIDIA themselves to cover it but whatever.
As the open source whore that I am I've still preferred NVIDIA, though them suddenly dropping unix based OS support other than Linux will suck horribly.
All in all I've just found them to be a great example of a company who wants to keep their technology closed up yet goes the extra mile in keeping their hardware compatible and "controllable" with many different software.
Of course other BSD support would be sweet but FreeBSD support is more than enough to stay ahead of other hardware vendors who keep their shit closed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635438</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>martin-boundary</author>
	<datestamp>1269614760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I don't understand why people are upset about this. Linux isn't being treated
  any lesser here; in fact, this is the same strategy they have on Windows.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
The windows strategy blows. I don't want to go to some obscure hardware site
to get a vital driver. I want my distro to package the correct driver, and I want to install or remove it in two clicks with my package manager.
</p><p>
By switching to the crappy windows way, Nvidia is directly forcing the Linux community to degrade their usability. This is far from the only reason, but you can see why this would make people upset. Since the Windows community doesn't have high quality packaging, they don't know what they're missing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why people are upset about this .
Linux is n't being treated any lesser here ; in fact , this is the same strategy they have on Windows .
The windows strategy blows .
I do n't want to go to some obscure hardware site to get a vital driver .
I want my distro to package the correct driver , and I want to install or remove it in two clicks with my package manager .
By switching to the crappy windows way , Nvidia is directly forcing the Linux community to degrade their usability .
This is far from the only reason , but you can see why this would make people upset .
Since the Windows community does n't have high quality packaging , they do n't know what they 're missing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why people are upset about this.
Linux isn't being treated
  any lesser here; in fact, this is the same strategy they have on Windows.
The windows strategy blows.
I don't want to go to some obscure hardware site
to get a vital driver.
I want my distro to package the correct driver, and I want to install or remove it in two clicks with my package manager.
By switching to the crappy windows way, Nvidia is directly forcing the Linux community to degrade their usability.
This is far from the only reason, but you can see why this would make people upset.
Since the Windows community doesn't have high quality packaging, they don't know what they're missing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634640</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269609900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Accelerated graphics are needed for more applications than just video games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Accelerated graphics are needed for more applications than just video games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Accelerated graphics are needed for more applications than just video games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635194</id>
	<title>what are they thinking?</title>
	<author>ncmathsadist</author>
	<datestamp>1269613140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Our institution buys a lot of laptops each year and recommends the purchase specs of hundreds.  We are an OS-neutral environment.  I guess NVIDIA has no regard for us.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Our institution buys a lot of laptops each year and recommends the purchase specs of hundreds .
We are an OS-neutral environment .
I guess NVIDIA has no regard for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our institution buys a lot of laptops each year and recommends the purchase specs of hundreds.
We are an OS-neutral environment.
I guess NVIDIA has no regard for us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633836</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does this have to do with them stopping development on an open source driver?</p><p>They will still provide their closed source driver which is better for a "high-end gaming environment" anyway (as long as you have no issues with your entire system not being 100\% free/beer/etc).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does this have to do with them stopping development on an open source driver ? They will still provide their closed source driver which is better for a " high-end gaming environment " anyway ( as long as you have no issues with your entire system not being 100 \ % free/beer/etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does this have to do with them stopping development on an open source driver?They will still provide their closed source driver which is better for a "high-end gaming environment" anyway (as long as you have no issues with your entire system not being 100\% free/beer/etc).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633994</id>
	<title>No surprise</title>
	<author>mrsam</author>
	<datestamp>1269605760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If someone was actually surprised by this, they haven't been paying attention.

Although Nvidia has been providing a non-free binary blob driver for Linux, I've always gotten the impression that it was mostly an afterthought. It took them forever to produce a 64 bit version of their binary blob, long after Linux on x86\_64 became commonplace. And, of course, they never, AFAIK, built anything for non-x86 Linux platforms.

This is just Nvidia's death spiral. Their future looks rather bleak. Both Intel and AMD have their own GPUs, now. Pretty much every motherboard now has onboard video which, for nearly everyone is perfectly adequate. The market for add-on video cards has no future.

Intel offers excellent free drivers, which are already bundled in most distros. I no longer buy new hardware as often as I used to, but when I do, for desktop use I always look for Intel chipsets. I know that accelerated 3D video will work out of the box, on my distro.

AMD -- eh, not that much, but they're working on it, from where I'm sitting.

So, Nvidia is odd man's out. They always had a 'tude towards Linux. I won't miss them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone was actually surprised by this , they have n't been paying attention .
Although Nvidia has been providing a non-free binary blob driver for Linux , I 've always gotten the impression that it was mostly an afterthought .
It took them forever to produce a 64 bit version of their binary blob , long after Linux on x86 \ _64 became commonplace .
And , of course , they never , AFAIK , built anything for non-x86 Linux platforms .
This is just Nvidia 's death spiral .
Their future looks rather bleak .
Both Intel and AMD have their own GPUs , now .
Pretty much every motherboard now has onboard video which , for nearly everyone is perfectly adequate .
The market for add-on video cards has no future .
Intel offers excellent free drivers , which are already bundled in most distros .
I no longer buy new hardware as often as I used to , but when I do , for desktop use I always look for Intel chipsets .
I know that accelerated 3D video will work out of the box , on my distro .
AMD -- eh , not that much , but they 're working on it , from where I 'm sitting .
So , Nvidia is odd man 's out .
They always had a 'tude towards Linux .
I wo n't miss them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone was actually surprised by this, they haven't been paying attention.
Although Nvidia has been providing a non-free binary blob driver for Linux, I've always gotten the impression that it was mostly an afterthought.
It took them forever to produce a 64 bit version of their binary blob, long after Linux on x86\_64 became commonplace.
And, of course, they never, AFAIK, built anything for non-x86 Linux platforms.
This is just Nvidia's death spiral.
Their future looks rather bleak.
Both Intel and AMD have their own GPUs, now.
Pretty much every motherboard now has onboard video which, for nearly everyone is perfectly adequate.
The market for add-on video cards has no future.
Intel offers excellent free drivers, which are already bundled in most distros.
I no longer buy new hardware as often as I used to, but when I do, for desktop use I always look for Intel chipsets.
I know that accelerated 3D video will work out of the box, on my distro.
AMD -- eh, not that much, but they're working on it, from where I'm sitting.
So, Nvidia is odd man's out.
They always had a 'tude towards Linux.
I won't miss them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634506</id>
	<title>Re:Huh?</title>
	<author>einhverfr</author>
	<datestamp>1269609060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What does that mean? Is the "X.Org VESA driver" now a web browser?</p></div></blockquote><p>Only if it is installed as part of EMACS.....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What does that mean ?
Is the " X.Org VESA driver " now a web browser ? Only if it is installed as part of EMACS.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does that mean?
Is the "X.Org VESA driver" now a web browser?Only if it is installed as part of EMACS.....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638272</id>
	<title>Re:Naive question - not trolling</title>
	<author>fritsd</author>
	<datestamp>1269691140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If there's only a closed-source driver, then it will stop working for newer versions of your operating system when the manufacturer decides it's not cost-effective (i.e. because they want to sell you a newer model graphics card).
<br>
On the other hand, if there's (also) an open source driver, then it will stop working for newer versions of open-source operating systems when nobody capable in the world can be bothered to port it to the newer version of the OS anymore (for closed-source OS such as MS Windows I think it depends on both Microsoft and the manufacturer but I'm not sure).</htmltext>
<tokenext>If there 's only a closed-source driver , then it will stop working for newer versions of your operating system when the manufacturer decides it 's not cost-effective ( i.e .
because they want to sell you a newer model graphics card ) .
On the other hand , if there 's ( also ) an open source driver , then it will stop working for newer versions of open-source operating systems when nobody capable in the world can be bothered to port it to the newer version of the OS anymore ( for closed-source OS such as MS Windows I think it depends on both Microsoft and the manufacturer but I 'm not sure ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If there's only a closed-source driver, then it will stop working for newer versions of your operating system when the manufacturer decides it's not cost-effective (i.e.
because they want to sell you a newer model graphics card).
On the other hand, if there's (also) an open source driver, then it will stop working for newer versions of open-source operating systems when nobody capable in the world can be bothered to port it to the newer version of the OS anymore (for closed-source OS such as MS Windows I think it depends on both Microsoft and the manufacturer but I'm not sure).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637878</id>
	<title>Nice move for the EU</title>
	<author>Schoenlepel</author>
	<datestamp>1269684720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If a vendor wishes to provide a computer hardware product, full specifications and programming manuals should be made available. The documentation should be extensive enough so a driver can be programmed which uses said hardware completely.<br><br>The product may only be sold if all documentation is available.<br><br>This would make sure other operating systems, besides the popular ones, can get driver support for all hardware available. That should level the playing field a bit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a vendor wishes to provide a computer hardware product , full specifications and programming manuals should be made available .
The documentation should be extensive enough so a driver can be programmed which uses said hardware completely.The product may only be sold if all documentation is available.This would make sure other operating systems , besides the popular ones , can get driver support for all hardware available .
That should level the playing field a bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a vendor wishes to provide a computer hardware product, full specifications and programming manuals should be made available.
The documentation should be extensive enough so a driver can be programmed which uses said hardware completely.The product may only be sold if all documentation is available.This would make sure other operating systems, besides the popular ones, can get driver support for all hardware available.
That should level the playing field a bit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633838</id>
	<title>Re:Huh?</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1269604860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Television Advertisement: "So use your computer to go to [PRODUCT WEBSITE] today!"<br>msauve: "What does this mean?  Is my "computer" now a web browser?"</p><p>PROTIP:  Substituting idiocy for pedantry doesn't make you look cool.  Not even on slashdot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Television Advertisement : " So use your computer to go to [ PRODUCT WEBSITE ] today !
" msauve : " What does this mean ?
Is my " computer " now a web browser ?
" PROTIP : Substituting idiocy for pedantry does n't make you look cool .
Not even on slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Television Advertisement: "So use your computer to go to [PRODUCT WEBSITE] today!
"msauve: "What does this mean?
Is my "computer" now a web browser?
"PROTIP:  Substituting idiocy for pedantry doesn't make you look cool.
Not even on slashdot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31639386</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1269704400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forget Quake 4, try Quake 3. It's a painful experience on all but the lowest settings.</p><p>Comparably, a Pentium 66MHz with 8Mb of RAM could play Quake roughly as acceptably.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget Quake 4 , try Quake 3 .
It 's a painful experience on all but the lowest settings.Comparably , a Pentium 66MHz with 8Mb of RAM could play Quake roughly as acceptably .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget Quake 4, try Quake 3.
It's a painful experience on all but the lowest settings.Comparably, a Pentium 66MHz with 8Mb of RAM could play Quake roughly as acceptably.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634066</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Prien715</author>
	<datestamp>1269606120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work somewhere that exclusively supported 3D on Linux with nVidia cards (we didn't release on Windows).</p><p>The drivers and the hardware are simply better on Linux than the competition.  If you're trying to develop serious 3D applications on Linux, it's still the way to go.  As someone else pointed out, it's not like nVidia's drivers are open source on Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work somewhere that exclusively supported 3D on Linux with nVidia cards ( we did n't release on Windows ) .The drivers and the hardware are simply better on Linux than the competition .
If you 're trying to develop serious 3D applications on Linux , it 's still the way to go .
As someone else pointed out , it 's not like nVidia 's drivers are open source on Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work somewhere that exclusively supported 3D on Linux with nVidia cards (we didn't release on Windows).The drivers and the hardware are simply better on Linux than the competition.
If you're trying to develop serious 3D applications on Linux, it's still the way to go.
As someone else pointed out, it's not like nVidia's drivers are open source on Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633796</id>
	<title>Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Bruce Perens</author>
	<datestamp>1269604740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops (especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop) and other computers that I purchase. This only confirms that decision. I'm not a gamer, but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops ( especially - because you ca n't change cards in a laptop ) and other computers that I purchase .
This only confirms that decision .
I 'm not a gamer , but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've made it a habit to avoid nVidia chips in the laptops (especially - because you can't change cards in a laptop) and other computers that I purchase.
This only confirms that decision.
I'm not a gamer, but obviously lots of software uses 3D hardware these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634636</id>
	<title>Re:nVidia also ran?</title>
	<author>gmueckl</author>
	<datestamp>1269609840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nVidia is still far from becoming unimportant, even with them having basically botched their new generation of chips. Besides the obviously huge game market, there is a maket for business and research applications that rely on GPGPU power. And this is a market that is flat-out dominated by CUDA. My guess is that a lot of desktop workstations are bought with nVidia cards because of the sheer possibility to run GPU accelerated code, no matter if it (a) ever implemented and (b) actually implemented in CUDA. I'm extrapolating from my work environment here.</p><p>I don't know if nVidia has the money to make a solid comeback with a (massivly) revised/improved Fermi chip that they will desperately need to jump ahead of AMD once more. Even if not, they won't just vanish from the face of the earth. At worst, they have made themselves only second to AMD and still way ahead of Intel when considering product capabilities. Intel caters to a mass market of business machines with low end 3D requirements, which is a high volume market with much simpler and cheaper chips, leaving plenty of room for higher graphics performance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nVidia is still far from becoming unimportant , even with them having basically botched their new generation of chips .
Besides the obviously huge game market , there is a maket for business and research applications that rely on GPGPU power .
And this is a market that is flat-out dominated by CUDA .
My guess is that a lot of desktop workstations are bought with nVidia cards because of the sheer possibility to run GPU accelerated code , no matter if it ( a ) ever implemented and ( b ) actually implemented in CUDA .
I 'm extrapolating from my work environment here.I do n't know if nVidia has the money to make a solid comeback with a ( massivly ) revised/improved Fermi chip that they will desperately need to jump ahead of AMD once more .
Even if not , they wo n't just vanish from the face of the earth .
At worst , they have made themselves only second to AMD and still way ahead of Intel when considering product capabilities .
Intel caters to a mass market of business machines with low end 3D requirements , which is a high volume market with much simpler and cheaper chips , leaving plenty of room for higher graphics performance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nVidia is still far from becoming unimportant, even with them having basically botched their new generation of chips.
Besides the obviously huge game market, there is a maket for business and research applications that rely on GPGPU power.
And this is a market that is flat-out dominated by CUDA.
My guess is that a lot of desktop workstations are bought with nVidia cards because of the sheer possibility to run GPU accelerated code, no matter if it (a) ever implemented and (b) actually implemented in CUDA.
I'm extrapolating from my work environment here.I don't know if nVidia has the money to make a solid comeback with a (massivly) revised/improved Fermi chip that they will desperately need to jump ahead of AMD once more.
Even if not, they won't just vanish from the face of the earth.
At worst, they have made themselves only second to AMD and still way ahead of Intel when considering product capabilities.
Intel caters to a mass market of business machines with low end 3D requirements, which is a high volume market with much simpler and cheaper chips, leaving plenty of room for higher graphics performance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634042</id>
	<title>Is It Worth nVidia's Time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honest question - is it really worth their time (and costs) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux?</p><p>Has anyone quantified the sales to show that Linux is a worthwhile market segment?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honest question - is it really worth their time ( and costs ) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux ? Has anyone quantified the sales to show that Linux is a worthwhile market segment ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honest question - is it really worth their time (and costs) to write open-sourced drivers for Linux?Has anyone quantified the sales to show that Linux is a worthwhile market segment?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634878</id>
	<title>Re:Be sure to vote with your wallet</title>
	<author>Alex Belits</author>
	<datestamp>1269611580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The difference is:</p><p>1 It's very unlikely that Nvidia refuses to provide developer support or keeps their hardware interface documentation from other OS vendors -- some Microsoft and Apple developers, I am sure, have access to Nvidia specifications and drivers sources for their platforms.</p><p>2. Linux distributions can't distribute Nvidia proprietary drivers for Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference is : 1 It 's very unlikely that Nvidia refuses to provide developer support or keeps their hardware interface documentation from other OS vendors -- some Microsoft and Apple developers , I am sure , have access to Nvidia specifications and drivers sources for their platforms.2 .
Linux distributions ca n't distribute Nvidia proprietary drivers for Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference is:1 It's very unlikely that Nvidia refuses to provide developer support or keeps their hardware interface documentation from other OS vendors -- some Microsoft and Apple developers, I am sure, have access to Nvidia specifications and drivers sources for their platforms.2.
Linux distributions can't distribute Nvidia proprietary drivers for Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638016</id>
	<title>Re:This isn't a big deal</title>
	<author>Seth Kriticos</author>
	<datestamp>1269687360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was wondering about that too. Mainstream Linux distros are currently switching to Nouveau. The nv drivers are becoming obsolete as we speak of, so no big loss.</p><p>As for the other posters around bitching about the basic NVidia attitude not to help the OSS drivers.. well, I'll be buying a competitive graphics card (AMD or Intel) if they have up to date specs and usable drivers. Though ATI is supporting OSS now, the drivers are still far from usable and Intel just isn't that for into contemporary graphics hardware yet (though they have a good driver dev team).</p><p>The proprietary drivers of NVidia generally do a nice job, so for a lack of choices, I'll stick to that for a little while longer (and hope the Nouveau drivers get a reasonable feature set soon to switch).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was wondering about that too .
Mainstream Linux distros are currently switching to Nouveau .
The nv drivers are becoming obsolete as we speak of , so no big loss.As for the other posters around bitching about the basic NVidia attitude not to help the OSS drivers.. well , I 'll be buying a competitive graphics card ( AMD or Intel ) if they have up to date specs and usable drivers .
Though ATI is supporting OSS now , the drivers are still far from usable and Intel just is n't that for into contemporary graphics hardware yet ( though they have a good driver dev team ) .The proprietary drivers of NVidia generally do a nice job , so for a lack of choices , I 'll stick to that for a little while longer ( and hope the Nouveau drivers get a reasonable feature set soon to switch ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was wondering about that too.
Mainstream Linux distros are currently switching to Nouveau.
The nv drivers are becoming obsolete as we speak of, so no big loss.As for the other posters around bitching about the basic NVidia attitude not to help the OSS drivers.. well, I'll be buying a competitive graphics card (AMD or Intel) if they have up to date specs and usable drivers.
Though ATI is supporting OSS now, the drivers are still far from usable and Intel just isn't that for into contemporary graphics hardware yet (though they have a good driver dev team).The proprietary drivers of NVidia generally do a nice job, so for a lack of choices, I'll stick to that for a little while longer (and hope the Nouveau drivers get a reasonable feature set soon to switch).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637834</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>hardcampa</author>
	<datestamp>1269683880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card. Let us know how you get on.</p></div><p>Lol Quake 4. You realise that's a 5 year old game. Take something like Crysis or Bad Company 2 instead.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card .
Let us know how you get on.Lol Quake 4 .
You realise that 's a 5 year old game .
Take something like Crysis or Bad Company 2 instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try playing Quake 4 on an Intel Video card.
Let us know how you get on.Lol Quake 4.
You realise that's a 5 year old game.
Take something like Crysis or Bad Company 2 instead.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635422</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269614700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Mono is safe. Stop spreading this BS.</i>
<p>
Microsoft has a history of trying to sell Linux-relevant patents to trolls and of using third-party proxies to attack Linux.
</p><p>
Microsoft has not changed its hostility towards Linux or open formats. Mono MAY be safe, but don't use it for infrastructure projects. Don't encourage the use of Microsoft-sponsored formats or protocols.
</p><p>
Mono is best used as a solely Windows compatibility tool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mono is safe .
Stop spreading this BS .
Microsoft has a history of trying to sell Linux-relevant patents to trolls and of using third-party proxies to attack Linux .
Microsoft has not changed its hostility towards Linux or open formats .
Mono MAY be safe , but do n't use it for infrastructure projects .
Do n't encourage the use of Microsoft-sponsored formats or protocols .
Mono is best used as a solely Windows compatibility tool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mono is safe.
Stop spreading this BS.
Microsoft has a history of trying to sell Linux-relevant patents to trolls and of using third-party proxies to attack Linux.
Microsoft has not changed its hostility towards Linux or open formats.
Mono MAY be safe, but don't use it for infrastructure projects.
Don't encourage the use of Microsoft-sponsored formats or protocols.
Mono is best used as a solely Windows compatibility tool.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637896</id>
	<title>Re:Open matters.....</title>
	<author>emanem</author>
	<datestamp>1269685260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always bought nVidia HW for Linux because I was playing (WoW/Quake4/DooM3) and wanted good 3D drivers.<br>
When SC2 will be out probably I'll play through wine, but this time I'll document myself and prolly buy AMD.<br>
My 2 cents,<br>
Ciao!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always bought nVidia HW for Linux because I was playing ( WoW/Quake4/DooM3 ) and wanted good 3D drivers .
When SC2 will be out probably I 'll play through wine , but this time I 'll document myself and prolly buy AMD .
My 2 cents , Ciao !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always bought nVidia HW for Linux because I was playing (WoW/Quake4/DooM3) and wanted good 3D drivers.
When SC2 will be out probably I'll play through wine, but this time I'll document myself and prolly buy AMD.
My 2 cents,
Ciao!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634120</id>
	<title>ATI / AMD WIN's!!!</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1269606480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ATI / AMD WIN's!!!</p><p>not only do they have good on board video they also have open drivers as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ATI / AMD WIN 's ! !
! not only do they have good on board video they also have open drivers as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ATI / AMD WIN's!!
!not only do they have good on board video they also have open drivers as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638140</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>RichiH</author>
	<datestamp>1269688920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did they consider using Debian along with the very well documented and reliable method to create local<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb files? They should maybe pin the kernel, but other than that...</p><p>Lookie here: <a href="http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers" title="debian.org">http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers</a> [debian.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did they consider using Debian along with the very well documented and reliable method to create local .deb files ?
They should maybe pin the kernel , but other than that...Lookie here : http : //wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers [ debian.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did they consider using Debian along with the very well documented and reliable method to create local .deb files?
They should maybe pin the kernel, but other than that...Lookie here: http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers [debian.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31638762</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>GigaplexNZ</author>
	<datestamp>1269698100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What, to explain that a legally binding decision actually is legally binding? In all seriousness, <a href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-issues-patent-promise-dispels-mono-concerns.ars" title="arstechnica.com">here's</a> [arstechnica.com] a link that states such a legally binding commitment exists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What , to explain that a legally binding decision actually is legally binding ?
In all seriousness , here 's [ arstechnica.com ] a link that states such a legally binding commitment exists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What, to explain that a legally binding decision actually is legally binding?
In all seriousness, here's [arstechnica.com] a link that states such a legally binding commitment exists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634596</id>
	<title>Re:nVidia also ran?</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1269609600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe nVidia is following the path SGI did?</p><p>Work hard, become top dog, and then sit on your haunches licking your nuts while your formerly-inferior competition whips by you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe nVidia is following the path SGI did ? Work hard , become top dog , and then sit on your haunches licking your nuts while your formerly-inferior competition whips by you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe nVidia is following the path SGI did?Work hard, become top dog, and then sit on your haunches licking your nuts while your formerly-inferior competition whips by you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634074</id>
	<title>So what happens to HPC with NVIDIA cards?</title>
	<author>ClickOnThis</author>
	<datestamp>1269606180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Video support in X.org is one thing, but NVIDIA cards are also used for high-performance computing via the CUDA environment.  OpenCL (a potential alternative to CUDA) is mentioned as being part of Nouveau, but CUDA is a well-established solution.</p><p>So what's the status now of HPC with NVIDIA cards?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Video support in X.org is one thing , but NVIDIA cards are also used for high-performance computing via the CUDA environment .
OpenCL ( a potential alternative to CUDA ) is mentioned as being part of Nouveau , but CUDA is a well-established solution.So what 's the status now of HPC with NVIDIA cards ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Video support in X.org is one thing, but NVIDIA cards are also used for high-performance computing via the CUDA environment.
OpenCL (a potential alternative to CUDA) is mentioned as being part of Nouveau, but CUDA is a well-established solution.So what's the status now of HPC with NVIDIA cards?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31636672</id>
	<title>Re:This isn't a big deal</title>
	<author>sean4u</author>
	<datestamp>1269623880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But doesn't this mean that those of us who bought our nVidia video cards more than (video hardware shelf life) years ago are going to have to put up with less-than-stellar video drivers? I use an ATI Mobility (that always reminded me of little electric carts for very old people) X1300 on Ubuntu and it has been a bloodbath. ATI no longer support it in their proprietary driver (which was good when it worked), so for a while the laptop I do all my work on (it never leaves my desk, battery died, lid hinge gone, but hey, Core2Duo, 2 Monitors, input devices on USB, it's good enough) was trailing behind all the other machines here. 3D games are becoming a distant memory now that I don't have the proprietary driver. The ati driver is great for work, but doesn't seem to cut the mustard for play at all.</p><p>After the X1300, I tried to make sure than any new PCs that we bought which needed better video adapters came with nVidia equipment. Will the same thing now happen to nVidia users on slightly older kit?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But does n't this mean that those of us who bought our nVidia video cards more than ( video hardware shelf life ) years ago are going to have to put up with less-than-stellar video drivers ?
I use an ATI Mobility ( that always reminded me of little electric carts for very old people ) X1300 on Ubuntu and it has been a bloodbath .
ATI no longer support it in their proprietary driver ( which was good when it worked ) , so for a while the laptop I do all my work on ( it never leaves my desk , battery died , lid hinge gone , but hey , Core2Duo , 2 Monitors , input devices on USB , it 's good enough ) was trailing behind all the other machines here .
3D games are becoming a distant memory now that I do n't have the proprietary driver .
The ati driver is great for work , but does n't seem to cut the mustard for play at all.After the X1300 , I tried to make sure than any new PCs that we bought which needed better video adapters came with nVidia equipment .
Will the same thing now happen to nVidia users on slightly older kit ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But doesn't this mean that those of us who bought our nVidia video cards more than (video hardware shelf life) years ago are going to have to put up with less-than-stellar video drivers?
I use an ATI Mobility (that always reminded me of little electric carts for very old people) X1300 on Ubuntu and it has been a bloodbath.
ATI no longer support it in their proprietary driver (which was good when it worked), so for a while the laptop I do all my work on (it never leaves my desk, battery died, lid hinge gone, but hey, Core2Duo, 2 Monitors, input devices on USB, it's good enough) was trailing behind all the other machines here.
3D games are becoming a distant memory now that I don't have the proprietary driver.
The ati driver is great for work, but doesn't seem to cut the mustard for play at all.After the X1300, I tried to make sure than any new PCs that we bought which needed better video adapters came with nVidia equipment.
Will the same thing now happen to nVidia users on slightly older kit?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634540</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1269609180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You got into the very convenient classic management mind trick of the self-fulfilling prophecy.</p><p>Why are there only so little Linux gamers? BECAUSE there is so little graphics support from the vendors.</p><p>The thing is, that graphics card vendors can support Linux without there being any games for it. But game developers can&rsquo;t create games that can compete in the market for Linux without proper graphics drivers.</p><p>Yes, they can use OpenGL. But that does still not help much, if the driver doesn&rsquo;t support it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You got into the very convenient classic management mind trick of the self-fulfilling prophecy.Why are there only so little Linux gamers ?
BECAUSE there is so little graphics support from the vendors.The thing is , that graphics card vendors can support Linux without there being any games for it .
But game developers can    t create games that can compete in the market for Linux without proper graphics drivers.Yes , they can use OpenGL .
But that does still not help much , if the driver doesn    t support it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You got into the very convenient classic management mind trick of the self-fulfilling prophecy.Why are there only so little Linux gamers?
BECAUSE there is so little graphics support from the vendors.The thing is, that graphics card vendors can support Linux without there being any games for it.
But game developers can’t create games that can compete in the market for Linux without proper graphics drivers.Yes, they can use OpenGL.
But that does still not help much, if the driver doesn’t support it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634774</id>
	<title>Thank You Nvidia</title>
	<author>NullProg</author>
	<datestamp>1269610860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I for one appreciate the great binary only drivers you provide me on my Linux systems.</p><p>I don't care that you keep your math algorithms private in your quest to be better than ATI and Intel.<br>Just remember, I choose your product over the others because of your support of Linux.</p><p>Keep up the good work</p><p>Enjoy,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I for one appreciate the great binary only drivers you provide me on my Linux systems.I do n't care that you keep your math algorithms private in your quest to be better than ATI and Intel.Just remember , I choose your product over the others because of your support of Linux.Keep up the good workEnjoy,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I for one appreciate the great binary only drivers you provide me on my Linux systems.I don't care that you keep your math algorithms private in your quest to be better than ATI and Intel.Just remember, I choose your product over the others because of your support of Linux.Keep up the good workEnjoy,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633982</id>
	<title>FUCK NVIDIA NEVER BUYING AGAIN</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your ship is sunk, once the 8+ core intel chips come out you'll be history.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your ship is sunk , once the 8 + core intel chips come out you 'll be history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your ship is sunk, once the 8+ core intel chips come out you'll be history.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633922</id>
	<title>Open matters.....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the past, I've made it a point to buy nvidia cards, because of it's Linux support, even though that support wasn't Free as in Freedom. They are a for profit company, who supported a binary driver for my favourite GNU/Linux OS. (I am in favour of the whole for profit idea, but believe there is a place for open source software in it, like Red Hat.) However, since ATI was bought by AMD, and are putting out a truly free driver for their cards, I will buy exclusively ATI cards in the future.</p><p>Open matters when I vote with my wallet. This will cost them my business at the very least.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the past , I 've made it a point to buy nvidia cards , because of it 's Linux support , even though that support was n't Free as in Freedom .
They are a for profit company , who supported a binary driver for my favourite GNU/Linux OS .
( I am in favour of the whole for profit idea , but believe there is a place for open source software in it , like Red Hat .
) However , since ATI was bought by AMD , and are putting out a truly free driver for their cards , I will buy exclusively ATI cards in the future.Open matters when I vote with my wallet .
This will cost them my business at the very least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the past, I've made it a point to buy nvidia cards, because of it's Linux support, even though that support wasn't Free as in Freedom.
They are a for profit company, who supported a binary driver for my favourite GNU/Linux OS.
(I am in favour of the whole for profit idea, but believe there is a place for open source software in it, like Red Hat.
) However, since ATI was bought by AMD, and are putting out a truly free driver for their cards, I will buy exclusively ATI cards in the future.Open matters when I vote with my wallet.
This will cost them my business at the very least.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31654792</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Finite9</author>
	<datestamp>1269860280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I get tired of people constantly evading or failing to compare BOTH OSS drivers and proprietary drivers!
<br>
<br>
"ATI graphics driver sucks", "Nvidia rules"
<br>
<br>
PROPRIETARY<br>
-----------<br>
Nvidia rules<br>
ATI sucks<br>
<br>
OPEN SOURCE<br>
------------<br>
Nvidia sucks<br>
ATI rules<br>
Intel Excellent, shame about underpowered hardware<br>
<br>
Before you all go slagging off ATI, just remember that there is no longer any need to use their proprietary driver! As the OSS driver is really good.  Intel has a great open source driver.  The laggard is nvidia because you can only use their own proprietary driver and it uses 10\% cpu even wen idling compared to oss nv driver.  We can also vote with our wallets and buy ATI cards and use the oss driver.  If performance is absolutely paramount, and 2fps is a deal maker or breaker, then you probably need nvidia with their driver, but for desktop use/casual to semi-serious gaming, ati has it all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I get tired of people constantly evading or failing to compare BOTH OSS drivers and proprietary drivers !
" ATI graphics driver sucks " , " Nvidia rules " PROPRIETARY ----------- Nvidia rules ATI sucks OPEN SOURCE ------------ Nvidia sucks ATI rules Intel Excellent , shame about underpowered hardware Before you all go slagging off ATI , just remember that there is no longer any need to use their proprietary driver !
As the OSS driver is really good .
Intel has a great open source driver .
The laggard is nvidia because you can only use their own proprietary driver and it uses 10 \ % cpu even wen idling compared to oss nv driver .
We can also vote with our wallets and buy ATI cards and use the oss driver .
If performance is absolutely paramount , and 2fps is a deal maker or breaker , then you probably need nvidia with their driver , but for desktop use/casual to semi-serious gaming , ati has it all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I get tired of people constantly evading or failing to compare BOTH OSS drivers and proprietary drivers!
"ATI graphics driver sucks", "Nvidia rules"


PROPRIETARY
-----------
Nvidia rules
ATI sucks

OPEN SOURCE
------------
Nvidia sucks
ATI rules
Intel Excellent, shame about underpowered hardware

Before you all go slagging off ATI, just remember that there is no longer any need to use their proprietary driver!
As the OSS driver is really good.
Intel has a great open source driver.
The laggard is nvidia because you can only use their own proprietary driver and it uses 10\% cpu even wen idling compared to oss nv driver.
We can also vote with our wallets and buy ATI cards and use the oss driver.
If performance is absolutely paramount, and 2fps is a deal maker or breaker, then you probably need nvidia with their driver, but for desktop use/casual to semi-serious gaming, ati has it all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31633860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634186</id>
	<title>Re:So what happens to HPC with NVIDIA cards?</title>
	<author>Dragoniz3r</author>
	<datestamp>1269607020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Same as it always has been. The driver they discontinued never supported it anyways. You must be thinking of their proprietary driver (you know... the one that actually supports 3D)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Same as it always has been .
The driver they discontinued never supported it anyways .
You must be thinking of their proprietary driver ( you know... the one that actually supports 3D )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same as it always has been.
The driver they discontinued never supported it anyways.
You must be thinking of their proprietary driver (you know... the one that actually supports 3D)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31637058</id>
	<title>Re:Bad move....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269627180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why don't they use the distribution packages? That's what they exist for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't they use the distribution packages ?
That 's what they exist for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't they use the distribution packages?
That's what they exist for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31635060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634114</id>
	<title>Re:So buy intel video cards</title>
	<author>PixelSlut</author>
	<datestamp>1269606480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try playing Quake 4 on nvidia Fermi using VESA and let me know how you get on.

Seriously, for many people out there Quake 4 is just not a reasonable measure of a video chip.  I don't play Quake 4 on my Linux machine.  If I want to play video games I go fire up the PS3 or plug a monitor into my Windows box and turn it on.

I do basically everything else in Linux now.  I don't need insane graphics to do it.  I need something good enough to run mutter or compiz, and ideally I'd love to have something with KMS support.  That's really about it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try playing Quake 4 on nvidia Fermi using VESA and let me know how you get on .
Seriously , for many people out there Quake 4 is just not a reasonable measure of a video chip .
I do n't play Quake 4 on my Linux machine .
If I want to play video games I go fire up the PS3 or plug a monitor into my Windows box and turn it on .
I do basically everything else in Linux now .
I do n't need insane graphics to do it .
I need something good enough to run mutter or compiz , and ideally I 'd love to have something with KMS support .
That 's really about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try playing Quake 4 on nvidia Fermi using VESA and let me know how you get on.
Seriously, for many people out there Quake 4 is just not a reasonable measure of a video chip.
I don't play Quake 4 on my Linux machine.
If I want to play video games I go fire up the PS3 or plug a monitor into my Windows box and turn it on.
I do basically everything else in Linux now.
I don't need insane graphics to do it.
I need something good enough to run mutter or compiz, and ideally I'd love to have something with KMS support.
That's really about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2240250.31634004</parent>
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