<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_26_1824239</id>
	<title>Fixing Internet Censorship In Schools</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1269633480000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>jcatcw writes <i>"Schools and libraries are <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/15824/a\_simple\_fix\_for\_internet\_censorship\_in\_schools">hurting students by setting up heavy-handed Web filtering</a>. The problem goes back for years. A filter blocked the Web site of former House Majority Leader Richard Armey because it detected the word 'dick,' according to <a href="http://www.fepproject.org/policyreports/filters2.pdf">a 2001 study from the Brennan Center of Justice</a>.  The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites, says Craig Cunningham, a professor at National-Louis University.  He quoted from a <a href="http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309082749">National Research Council study</a>: 'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children. To protect them, one can install locks ... <em>[or] teach them to swim.</em>' Web filtering also leads to <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/15781/web\_filtering">inequities in education based on household income</a>. Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and, often, more enlightened parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries. Poorer students without home access don't have those opportunities."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>jcatcw writes " Schools and libraries are hurting students by setting up heavy-handed Web filtering .
The problem goes back for years .
A filter blocked the Web site of former House Majority Leader Richard Armey because it detected the word 'dick, ' according to a 2001 study from the Brennan Center of Justice .
The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society , and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites , says Craig Cunningham , a professor at National-Louis University .
He quoted from a National Research Council study : 'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children .
To protect them , one can install locks ... [ or ] teach them to swim .
' Web filtering also leads to inequities in education based on household income .
Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and , often , more enlightened parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries .
Poorer students without home access do n't have those opportunities .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>jcatcw writes "Schools and libraries are hurting students by setting up heavy-handed Web filtering.
The problem goes back for years.
A filter blocked the Web site of former House Majority Leader Richard Armey because it detected the word 'dick,' according to a 2001 study from the Brennan Center of Justice.
The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites, says Craig Cunningham, a professor at National-Louis University.
He quoted from a National Research Council study: 'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children.
To protect them, one can install locks ... [or] teach them to swim.
' Web filtering also leads to inequities in education based on household income.
Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and, often, more enlightened parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries.
Poorer students without home access don't have those opportunities.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631872</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>CopaceticOpus</author>
	<datestamp>1269595680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's simple enough, swimming pools and porn are both ways that the devil gets inside you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's simple enough , swimming pools and porn are both ways that the devil gets inside you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's simple enough, swimming pools and porn are both ways that the devil gets inside you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634452</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>severoon</author>
	<datestamp>1269608700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disagree with the humiliation path on drinking. I think you'll find humiliation is rarely a good way to raise children.
</p><p>Just give them booze periodically. They won't like it when they're really young. When they get older, let them have the occasional beer or glass of wine as if it were no big deal, which is pretty easy to do, because it's not. Make sure they understand that these drinks contain alcohol, and it's not good in large amounts like sugar, or other drugs like caffeine. But most of the attention should be on appreciation of the beverage.
</p><p>I don't know why we don't teach kids to taste food and drink and pay attention to the difference between what's good and bad. Then we wonder why all they eat is junk and HFCS. It's like if we didn't teach them how to read, and then we were all completely dumbfounded by how illiterate they were.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disagree with the humiliation path on drinking .
I think you 'll find humiliation is rarely a good way to raise children .
Just give them booze periodically .
They wo n't like it when they 're really young .
When they get older , let them have the occasional beer or glass of wine as if it were no big deal , which is pretty easy to do , because it 's not .
Make sure they understand that these drinks contain alcohol , and it 's not good in large amounts like sugar , or other drugs like caffeine .
But most of the attention should be on appreciation of the beverage .
I do n't know why we do n't teach kids to taste food and drink and pay attention to the difference between what 's good and bad .
Then we wonder why all they eat is junk and HFCS .
It 's like if we did n't teach them how to read , and then we were all completely dumbfounded by how illiterate they were .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disagree with the humiliation path on drinking.
I think you'll find humiliation is rarely a good way to raise children.
Just give them booze periodically.
They won't like it when they're really young.
When they get older, let them have the occasional beer or glass of wine as if it were no big deal, which is pretty easy to do, because it's not.
Make sure they understand that these drinks contain alcohol, and it's not good in large amounts like sugar, or other drugs like caffeine.
But most of the attention should be on appreciation of the beverage.
I don't know why we don't teach kids to taste food and drink and pay attention to the difference between what's good and bad.
Then we wonder why all they eat is junk and HFCS.
It's like if we didn't teach them how to read, and then we were all completely dumbfounded by how illiterate they were.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632722</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269598920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This would be in all caps if the filter didn't stop me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>WHY THE FUCK DOES YOUR SCHOOL KID NEED A CELL PHONE?!</p><p>Thats right, he/she doesn't, and thats how you block facebook on the phone.  Why the fuck are parents letting their children go to school with fucking phones?  They don't actually have any reason to  need to be that contactable.</p><blockquote><div><p>Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.</p></div></blockquote><p>So you just got out of school<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  let me how tell you how high I rank the opinion of a school kid telling me about how it should be for school kids<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  You might want to leave that part out next time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This would be in all caps if the filter did n't stop me ...WHY THE FUCK DOES YOUR SCHOOL KID NEED A CELL PHONE ?
! Thats right , he/she does n't , and thats how you block facebook on the phone .
Why the fuck are parents letting their children go to school with fucking phones ?
They do n't actually have any reason to need to be that contactable.Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.So you just got out of school ... let me how tell you how high I rank the opinion of a school kid telling me about how it should be for school kids ... You might want to leave that part out next time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This would be in all caps if the filter didn't stop me ...WHY THE FUCK DOES YOUR SCHOOL KID NEED A CELL PHONE?
!Thats right, he/she doesn't, and thats how you block facebook on the phone.
Why the fuck are parents letting their children go to school with fucking phones?
They don't actually have any reason to  need to be that contactable.Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.So you just got out of school ...  let me how tell you how high I rank the opinion of a school kid telling me about how it should be for school kids ...  You might want to leave that part out next time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631568</id>
	<title>The purpose is not to protect children...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...it is to protect teachers and adminstrators against religious zealots.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...it is to protect teachers and adminstrators against religious zealots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...it is to protect teachers and adminstrators against religious zealots.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631658</id>
	<title>Webfilters, a great motivator!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work, put a filter between them in the internet. They'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they're smart. And if they're too stupid to break out, think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid.</p><p>Everybody wins!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work , put a filter between them in the internet .
They 'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they 're smart .
And if they 're too stupid to break out , think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid.Everybody wins !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work, put a filter between them in the internet.
They'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they're smart.
And if they're too stupid to break out, think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid.Everybody wins!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631716</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose is not to protect children...</title>
	<author>Kingrames</author>
	<datestamp>1269594960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>En Taro Adun, Jesus!</htmltext>
<tokenext>En Taro Adun , Jesus !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>En Taro Adun, Jesus!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632410</id>
	<title>protection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269597780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reality is that we generally try to put some level of protection so that kids don't happen upon information that they aren't prepared to deal with until they've been taught.  Unfortunately, you can't teach anyone everything all at once.</p><p>We don't generally leave poisonous chemicals or boxes of matches laying around where uninformed kids will get to them. We've found that it's not practical to teach them all about the dangers of everything all at once, especially when they're too young to understand the dangers.  We protect them from some things for some period of time, until they're ready to handle the responsibility.</p><p>Information can be just as dangerous, when handed out without the proper training., I believe that some level of protection from some types of information on the internet is justified to protect those who haven't yet learned enough to use the information responsibly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reality is that we generally try to put some level of protection so that kids do n't happen upon information that they are n't prepared to deal with until they 've been taught .
Unfortunately , you ca n't teach anyone everything all at once.We do n't generally leave poisonous chemicals or boxes of matches laying around where uninformed kids will get to them .
We 've found that it 's not practical to teach them all about the dangers of everything all at once , especially when they 're too young to understand the dangers .
We protect them from some things for some period of time , until they 're ready to handle the responsibility.Information can be just as dangerous , when handed out without the proper training. , I believe that some level of protection from some types of information on the internet is justified to protect those who have n't yet learned enough to use the information responsibly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reality is that we generally try to put some level of protection so that kids don't happen upon information that they aren't prepared to deal with until they've been taught.
Unfortunately, you can't teach anyone everything all at once.We don't generally leave poisonous chemicals or boxes of matches laying around where uninformed kids will get to them.
We've found that it's not practical to teach them all about the dangers of everything all at once, especially when they're too young to understand the dangers.
We protect them from some things for some period of time, until they're ready to handle the responsibility.Information can be just as dangerous, when handed out without the proper training., I believe that some level of protection from some types of information on the internet is justified to protect those who haven't yet learned enough to use the information responsibly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632652</id>
	<title>Because it's obviously one or the other.</title>
	<author>adonoman</author>
	<datestamp>1269598620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext> It is possible to educate kids about dangers without leaving access to that "danger" uncontrolled.  Personally, I like to teach my kids to swim, AND lock the gate to the pool when it's unsupervised.  It keeps really young kids out (who haven't yet learned to swim), and it's a discouragement to elementary-age kids to help them "remember" the rules, and the older kids know where the key is.  I teach my kids not to talk to strangers, but that doesn't mean I'll leave my 4-year old alone in the mall (or playing on the internet).</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is possible to educate kids about dangers without leaving access to that " danger " uncontrolled .
Personally , I like to teach my kids to swim , AND lock the gate to the pool when it 's unsupervised .
It keeps really young kids out ( who have n't yet learned to swim ) , and it 's a discouragement to elementary-age kids to help them " remember " the rules , and the older kids know where the key is .
I teach my kids not to talk to strangers , but that does n't mean I 'll leave my 4-year old alone in the mall ( or playing on the internet ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It is possible to educate kids about dangers without leaving access to that "danger" uncontrolled.
Personally, I like to teach my kids to swim, AND lock the gate to the pool when it's unsupervised.
It keeps really young kids out (who haven't yet learned to swim), and it's a discouragement to elementary-age kids to help them "remember" the rules, and the older kids know where the key is.
I teach my kids not to talk to strangers, but that doesn't mean I'll leave my 4-year old alone in the mall (or playing on the internet).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632680</id>
	<title>Re:Critical thinking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269598740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about...we don't teach critical thinking skills for the following reasons:</p><p>1) The model of curriculum is based on what was done 60+ years ago.  At that time, people didn't get nearly as much schooling (not finishing high school was common).  Thus, in the limited time they had with kids, schools taught facts.</p><p>2) Critical thinking is harder.  People don't like things they're not good at.  Too much critical thinking makes kids dislike school (more than they already do) and tune the whole thing out.</p><p>That's a cop out, but the biggest issue with our school system is: schools are not really made to send kids to college.  40 years ago, only the best students went.  Those kids were able to make the jump from fact-based regurgitation (just as today's best kids are as well), so it wasn't a problem.  The rest don't make that jump well, and struggle in college, which requires critical thinking (as well as more self-discipline).</p><p>But still, the problem we have is that we send ALL our kids to the same high school, and then wonder why some of them really can't hack it.  Other countries (Japan, China) put higher standards for admission to high school, and thus you have a much better crowd.  This would likely be unacceptable to American society, which has decided that everyone can make it at the same level.  This is, of course, impossible at a sufficiently advanced level, so we decrease the level to the point where it becomes possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about...we do n't teach critical thinking skills for the following reasons : 1 ) The model of curriculum is based on what was done 60 + years ago .
At that time , people did n't get nearly as much schooling ( not finishing high school was common ) .
Thus , in the limited time they had with kids , schools taught facts.2 ) Critical thinking is harder .
People do n't like things they 're not good at .
Too much critical thinking makes kids dislike school ( more than they already do ) and tune the whole thing out.That 's a cop out , but the biggest issue with our school system is : schools are not really made to send kids to college .
40 years ago , only the best students went .
Those kids were able to make the jump from fact-based regurgitation ( just as today 's best kids are as well ) , so it was n't a problem .
The rest do n't make that jump well , and struggle in college , which requires critical thinking ( as well as more self-discipline ) .But still , the problem we have is that we send ALL our kids to the same high school , and then wonder why some of them really ca n't hack it .
Other countries ( Japan , China ) put higher standards for admission to high school , and thus you have a much better crowd .
This would likely be unacceptable to American society , which has decided that everyone can make it at the same level .
This is , of course , impossible at a sufficiently advanced level , so we decrease the level to the point where it becomes possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about...we don't teach critical thinking skills for the following reasons:1) The model of curriculum is based on what was done 60+ years ago.
At that time, people didn't get nearly as much schooling (not finishing high school was common).
Thus, in the limited time they had with kids, schools taught facts.2) Critical thinking is harder.
People don't like things they're not good at.
Too much critical thinking makes kids dislike school (more than they already do) and tune the whole thing out.That's a cop out, but the biggest issue with our school system is: schools are not really made to send kids to college.
40 years ago, only the best students went.
Those kids were able to make the jump from fact-based regurgitation (just as today's best kids are as well), so it wasn't a problem.
The rest don't make that jump well, and struggle in college, which requires critical thinking (as well as more self-discipline).But still, the problem we have is that we send ALL our kids to the same high school, and then wonder why some of them really can't hack it.
Other countries (Japan, China) put higher standards for admission to high school, and thus you have a much better crowd.
This would likely be unacceptable to American society, which has decided that everyone can make it at the same level.
This is, of course, impossible at a sufficiently advanced level, so we decrease the level to the point where it becomes possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631466</id>
	<title>but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269637140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>think.....of......the.......children.......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>think.....of......the.......children...... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>think.....of......the.......children.......</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31638906</id>
	<title>Filtering Until Children Are Capable of Swimming</title>
	<author>Smackintosh</author>
	<datestamp>1269699600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People these days have gone off the deep end in the search for 'equal rights for everyone'.....including children.  It's quite ridiculous.<br> <br>

The true purpose for filtering or keeping <b>anything</b> away from a child (sex, the internet, mobile phones, guns, the ability to drive, etc, etc, etc) is to protect them from hurting themselves until they are <b>mentally</b> and <b>physically</b> capable of handling those things, and making wise decisions regarding them.  The majority of these potentially life-altering and harmful subjects aren't things that children are able to adequately handle until they are likely 16-18 years old or even older.  Yet people keep trying to convince themselves that children <b>are</b> capable of dealing with these things properly....treat them like adults....and we end up with poor-decision making pre-teens that act like entitled 30 year olds.  <br> <br>

It's bad for our society's present and future.  Everyone else ends up paying for it (literally and figuratively). It needs to end.</htmltext>
<tokenext>People these days have gone off the deep end in the search for 'equal rights for everyone'.....including children .
It 's quite ridiculous .
The true purpose for filtering or keeping anything away from a child ( sex , the internet , mobile phones , guns , the ability to drive , etc , etc , etc ) is to protect them from hurting themselves until they are mentally and physically capable of handling those things , and making wise decisions regarding them .
The majority of these potentially life-altering and harmful subjects are n't things that children are able to adequately handle until they are likely 16-18 years old or even older .
Yet people keep trying to convince themselves that children are capable of dealing with these things properly....treat them like adults....and we end up with poor-decision making pre-teens that act like entitled 30 year olds .
It 's bad for our society 's present and future .
Everyone else ends up paying for it ( literally and figuratively ) .
It needs to end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People these days have gone off the deep end in the search for 'equal rights for everyone'.....including children.
It's quite ridiculous.
The true purpose for filtering or keeping anything away from a child (sex, the internet, mobile phones, guns, the ability to drive, etc, etc, etc) is to protect them from hurting themselves until they are mentally and physically capable of handling those things, and making wise decisions regarding them.
The majority of these potentially life-altering and harmful subjects aren't things that children are able to adequately handle until they are likely 16-18 years old or even older.
Yet people keep trying to convince themselves that children are capable of dealing with these things properly....treat them like adults....and we end up with poor-decision making pre-teens that act like entitled 30 year olds.
It's bad for our society's present and future.
Everyone else ends up paying for it (literally and figuratively).
It needs to end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31643934</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>mrjohnson</author>
	<datestamp>1269697380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Research, when it was necessary at all, was done at the library or at home."</p><p>That's the problem, they're talking about "inequities in household income." This is about those kids who have no home computer. And the library is filtered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Research , when it was necessary at all , was done at the library or at home .
" That 's the problem , they 're talking about " inequities in household income .
" This is about those kids who have no home computer .
And the library is filtered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Research, when it was necessary at all, was done at the library or at home.
"That's the problem, they're talking about "inequities in household income.
" This is about those kids who have no home computer.
And the library is filtered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633172</id>
	<title>Re:So what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269600960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Things are always going to be somewhat unfair so we shouldn't ever try to make them more fair."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Things are always going to be somewhat unfair so we should n't ever try to make them more fair .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Things are always going to be somewhat unfair so we shouldn't ever try to make them more fair.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31635894</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269617520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor, I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools.</p> </div><p>I agree, for a different reason. The Internet can indeed be a dangerous place (identity theft, etc.), but the existence of pornography - which is usually the target of Web filtering - is not one of them. Not only is it futile in this day and age to try to block kids from accessing porn, but I'm *still* waiting for someone to tell me why it's so imperative to do so in the first place.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor , I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools .
I agree , for a different reason .
The Internet can indeed be a dangerous place ( identity theft , etc .
) , but the existence of pornography - which is usually the target of Web filtering - is not one of them .
Not only is it futile in this day and age to try to block kids from accessing porn , but I 'm * still * waiting for someone to tell me why it 's so imperative to do so in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor, I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools.
I agree, for a different reason.
The Internet can indeed be a dangerous place (identity theft, etc.
), but the existence of pornography - which is usually the target of Web filtering - is not one of them.
Not only is it futile in this day and age to try to block kids from accessing porn, but I'm *still* waiting for someone to tell me why it's so imperative to do so in the first place.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632296</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269597300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CIPA?? Wow!! That is one very *poor* choice of words!</p><p>http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cipa</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CIPA ? ?
Wow ! ! That is one very * poor * choice of words ! http : //en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cipa</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CIPA??
Wow!! That is one very *poor* choice of words!http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cipa</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31636238</id>
	<title>Re:So what?</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1269620040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fact that people die every day doesn't prevent us from building and staffing hospitals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that people die every day does n't prevent us from building and staffing hospitals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that people die every day doesn't prevent us from building and staffing hospitals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631524</id>
	<title>Right...</title>
	<author>Pojut</author>
	<datestamp>1269594180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...because denying knowledge is such a great idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...because denying knowledge is such a great idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...because denying knowledge is such a great idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632964</id>
	<title>Consider Computer Science</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269600060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm an undergrad student in computer science.</p><p>90\% of the time when I have a coding problem or error that I have to fix, I google it to try to find solutions or people with similar problems. The same thing applies whenever something goes wrong with a computer program/application/game/driver that I'm using.</p><p>Hell, most professors will tell you that the goal isn't to teach you how to do everything from scratch, the goal is to teach you how to use what's already there (a.k.a. google it and steal/use other people's code).</p><p>Doing stuff like that would be almost impossible behind a typical High School filter. The net was basically unusable for anything except specifically approved sites that the teachers told you to go to.</p><p>I think preparing students for their future studies/the real world is a much better goal than stopping them from using youtube.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an undergrad student in computer science.90 \ % of the time when I have a coding problem or error that I have to fix , I google it to try to find solutions or people with similar problems .
The same thing applies whenever something goes wrong with a computer program/application/game/driver that I 'm using.Hell , most professors will tell you that the goal is n't to teach you how to do everything from scratch , the goal is to teach you how to use what 's already there ( a.k.a .
google it and steal/use other people 's code ) .Doing stuff like that would be almost impossible behind a typical High School filter .
The net was basically unusable for anything except specifically approved sites that the teachers told you to go to.I think preparing students for their future studies/the real world is a much better goal than stopping them from using youtube .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an undergrad student in computer science.90\% of the time when I have a coding problem or error that I have to fix, I google it to try to find solutions or people with similar problems.
The same thing applies whenever something goes wrong with a computer program/application/game/driver that I'm using.Hell, most professors will tell you that the goal isn't to teach you how to do everything from scratch, the goal is to teach you how to use what's already there (a.k.a.
google it and steal/use other people's code).Doing stuff like that would be almost impossible behind a typical High School filter.
The net was basically unusable for anything except specifically approved sites that the teachers told you to go to.I think preparing students for their future studies/the real world is a much better goal than stopping them from using youtube.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633336</id>
	<title>Re:an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>Merc248</author>
	<datestamp>1269601980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep.</p><p>When I was working at a private high school for a while, our whole department agreed that there really shouldn't be any filter, because it only really encourages two things:</p><p>1.) It encourages kids to try to break the filter (actually, this can be a good thing if you're wanting to hire some student TA's)<br>2.) It discourages responsible web browsing.</p><p>But yes, we also knew that our jobs would be in jeopardy if we never had the filter in place... so we had a Barracuda web filter that we administered.</p><p>(Thankfully, there's a school in Seattle called "Seattle Academy", which is actually quite radical when it comes to its policy with technology in the school: there's free wifi for everyone and there's no filter.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep.When I was working at a private high school for a while , our whole department agreed that there really should n't be any filter , because it only really encourages two things : 1 .
) It encourages kids to try to break the filter ( actually , this can be a good thing if you 're wanting to hire some student TA 's ) 2 .
) It discourages responsible web browsing.But yes , we also knew that our jobs would be in jeopardy if we never had the filter in place... so we had a Barracuda web filter that we administered .
( Thankfully , there 's a school in Seattle called " Seattle Academy " , which is actually quite radical when it comes to its policy with technology in the school : there 's free wifi for everyone and there 's no filter .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.When I was working at a private high school for a while, our whole department agreed that there really shouldn't be any filter, because it only really encourages two things:1.
) It encourages kids to try to break the filter (actually, this can be a good thing if you're wanting to hire some student TA's)2.
) It discourages responsible web browsing.But yes, we also knew that our jobs would be in jeopardy if we never had the filter in place... so we had a Barracuda web filter that we administered.
(Thankfully, there's a school in Seattle called "Seattle Academy", which is actually quite radical when it comes to its policy with technology in the school: there's free wifi for everyone and there's no filter.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632572</id>
	<title>Some laws says that libraries must trun off on req</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1269598380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some laws says that libraries must trun it off request.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some laws says that libraries must trun it off request .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some laws says that libraries must trun it off request.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631940</id>
	<title>Re:So much slips past the filters...</title>
	<author>Sponge Bath</author>
	<datestamp>1269595860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Do a search for "yiff"...</i></p><p>Geoffrey Chaucer:<br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...That yiff that god that hevene and erthe made<br>
Wolde haue a love For beaute and goodness<br>
And womanhede and trouthe and semelynesse<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do a search for " yiff " ...Geoffrey Chaucer : ...That yiff that god that hevene and erthe made Wolde haue a love For beaute and goodness And womanhede and trouthe and semelynesse .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Do a search for "yiff"...Geoffrey Chaucer: ...That yiff that god that hevene and erthe made
Wolde haue a love For beaute and goodness
And womanhede and trouthe and semelynesse ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632326</id>
	<title>Re:an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269597360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you don't.  I helped run the network for a school a while back.  We didn't filter anything.  We logged everything using a proxy.  We simply made it very well known to the students that anything they surfed would be logged.  We never had any issues.  This was even the school for "bad kids"</p><p>We had a couple of the "bad hackers" from the highschool.  We made them (with supervision) in charge of keeping the linux machines in the computer lab running.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you do n't .
I helped run the network for a school a while back .
We did n't filter anything .
We logged everything using a proxy .
We simply made it very well known to the students that anything they surfed would be logged .
We never had any issues .
This was even the school for " bad kids " We had a couple of the " bad hackers " from the highschool .
We made them ( with supervision ) in charge of keeping the linux machines in the computer lab running .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you don't.
I helped run the network for a school a while back.
We didn't filter anything.
We logged everything using a proxy.
We simply made it very well known to the students that anything they surfed would be logged.
We never had any issues.
This was even the school for "bad kids"We had a couple of the "bad hackers" from the highschool.
We made them (with supervision) in charge of keeping the linux machines in the computer lab running.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632036</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose is not to protect children...</title>
	<author>twidarkling</author>
	<datestamp>1269596280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Zug Zug!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Zug Zug !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Zug Zug!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634334</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1269607860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was in high school, we just used SSH to bypass the various firewalls and filters the school had in place.  That is how we got our first lesson in freedom and democracy:  you need to actively work to protect it from those in power.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was in high school , we just used SSH to bypass the various firewalls and filters the school had in place .
That is how we got our first lesson in freedom and democracy : you need to actively work to protect it from those in power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was in high school, we just used SSH to bypass the various firewalls and filters the school had in place.
That is how we got our first lesson in freedom and democracy:  you need to actively work to protect it from those in power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631744</id>
	<title>Facts?</title>
	<author>blueg3</author>
	<datestamp>1269595080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like how a blog post that simply states, without evidence, that web filters lead to income-based educational inequalities is simply asserted in TFS as a fact. Also how TFS chooses to copy text directly from said blog post without using quotation marks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like how a blog post that simply states , without evidence , that web filters lead to income-based educational inequalities is simply asserted in TFS as a fact .
Also how TFS chooses to copy text directly from said blog post without using quotation marks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like how a blog post that simply states, without evidence, that web filters lead to income-based educational inequalities is simply asserted in TFS as a fact.
Also how TFS chooses to copy text directly from said blog post without using quotation marks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632012</id>
	<title>But we have..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269596100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teach children to think? No! We have a book and computers to do that for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Teach children to think ?
No ! We have a book and computers to do that for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teach children to think?
No! We have a book and computers to do that for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31636896</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Zerth</author>
	<datestamp>1269625560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teaching kids that searching for things with multiple meanings might bring up inappropriate material and how to add words to your search to prevent getting those results.</p><p>Relying solely on technical means gets things like legitimate words "richard" or "stardock" or "scunthorpe" blocked, either because filter companies hire people that can't write decent regexps or because humans dislike censorship and slang around it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Teaching kids that searching for things with multiple meanings might bring up inappropriate material and how to add words to your search to prevent getting those results.Relying solely on technical means gets things like legitimate words " richard " or " stardock " or " scunthorpe " blocked , either because filter companies hire people that ca n't write decent regexps or because humans dislike censorship and slang around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teaching kids that searching for things with multiple meanings might bring up inappropriate material and how to add words to your search to prevent getting those results.Relying solely on technical means gets things like legitimate words "richard" or "stardock" or "scunthorpe" blocked, either because filter companies hire people that can't write decent regexps or because humans dislike censorship and slang around it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633362</id>
	<title>Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269602100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>My school censorship is, to say the least, strange. It will happily show whatever thumbnails Google Images with safe search off comes up with, Fail Blog - rather "un-educational" and Youtube, but block sites such as slashdot and even php.net. Really don't know what is evil about that site.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My school censorship is , to say the least , strange .
It will happily show whatever thumbnails Google Images with safe search off comes up with , Fail Blog - rather " un-educational " and Youtube , but block sites such as slashdot and even php.net .
Really do n't know what is evil about that site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My school censorship is, to say the least, strange.
It will happily show whatever thumbnails Google Images with safe search off comes up with, Fail Blog - rather "un-educational" and Youtube, but block sites such as slashdot and even php.net.
Really don't know what is evil about that site.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632894</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269599760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are so many more reasons for the filters other than just stopping Johnny form looking at porn.  There are bandwidth issues, security issues, privacy issues, just off the top of my head.  Just think of last week when the NCAA tourney started if streaming video was not filtered the Internet would have been unusable for real educational purposes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are so many more reasons for the filters other than just stopping Johnny form looking at porn .
There are bandwidth issues , security issues , privacy issues , just off the top of my head .
Just think of last week when the NCAA tourney started if streaming video was not filtered the Internet would have been unusable for real educational purposes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are so many more reasons for the filters other than just stopping Johnny form looking at porn.
There are bandwidth issues, security issues, privacy issues, just off the top of my head.
Just think of last week when the NCAA tourney started if streaming video was not filtered the Internet would have been unusable for real educational purposes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632148</id>
	<title>Re:Webfilters, a great motivator!</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1269596640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes please. We need less how-is-babby-formed.</p><p>"You must be this smart to ride."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes please .
We need less how-is-babby-formed .
" You must be this smart to ride .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes please.
We need less how-is-babby-formed.
"You must be this smart to ride.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631766</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Amouth</author>
	<datestamp>1269595140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>use a wireless air card</p></div><p>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some muds</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some muds</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some muds
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31648404</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>a11ikat</author>
	<datestamp>1269800100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Finally!  The original item and scads of accompanying replies vindicates my belief that much of what appears on the web (not just in slashdot) is based on ignorance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Finally !
The original item and scads of accompanying replies vindicates my belief that much of what appears on the web ( not just in slashdot ) is based on ignorance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Finally!
The original item and scads of accompanying replies vindicates my belief that much of what appears on the web (not just in slashdot) is based on ignorance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</id>
	<title>bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Simulant</author>
	<datestamp>1269594300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children. To protect them, one can install locks<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... [or] teach them to swim.'</p> </div><p>   I'm tired &amp; slow today... someone please explain this analogy with respect to internet porn (which is the context from which the quote was taken).  The possibilities seem endless.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children .
To protect them , one can install locks ... [ or ] teach them to swim .
' I 'm tired &amp; slow today... someone please explain this analogy with respect to internet porn ( which is the context from which the quote was taken ) .
The possibilities seem endless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Swimming pools can be dangerous for children.
To protect them, one can install locks ... [or] teach them to swim.
'    I'm tired &amp; slow today... someone please explain this analogy with respect to internet porn (which is the context from which the quote was taken).
The possibilities seem endless.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631938</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269595860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>YouTube to me is one of the poster children for good/bad Internet.  I suspect that it's widely filtered, and there is age-inappropriate and certainly time-wasting content, but the amount of good and sometimes very good content on YouTube is huge.  If you're studying a piece of music, there are probably multiple interpretation of that piece there.  I would have really liked to have been able to use some of the chess lessons on YouTube.  The list is endless.</p><p>When I asked the school district why it was blocked the best that they could come up with was that comments aren't filtered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>YouTube to me is one of the poster children for good/bad Internet .
I suspect that it 's widely filtered , and there is age-inappropriate and certainly time-wasting content , but the amount of good and sometimes very good content on YouTube is huge .
If you 're studying a piece of music , there are probably multiple interpretation of that piece there .
I would have really liked to have been able to use some of the chess lessons on YouTube .
The list is endless.When I asked the school district why it was blocked the best that they could come up with was that comments are n't filtered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>YouTube to me is one of the poster children for good/bad Internet.
I suspect that it's widely filtered, and there is age-inappropriate and certainly time-wasting content, but the amount of good and sometimes very good content on YouTube is huge.
If you're studying a piece of music, there are probably multiple interpretation of that piece there.
I would have really liked to have been able to use some of the chess lessons on YouTube.
The list is endless.When I asked the school district why it was blocked the best that they could come up with was that comments aren't filtered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31644416</id>
	<title>Re:Filters? What filters?</title>
	<author>LowG1974</author>
	<datestamp>1269702900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, most web filters also block dynamic IP services such as no-ip.com or dyndns. Now, if you pay an extra $5-10 for a statis IP from your home ISP...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , most web filters also block dynamic IP services such as no-ip.com or dyndns .
Now , if you pay an extra $ 5-10 for a statis IP from your home ISP.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, most web filters also block dynamic IP services such as no-ip.com or dyndns.
Now, if you pay an extra $5-10 for a statis IP from your home ISP...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31638274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633046</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>trickofperspective</author>
	<datestamp>1269600360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just about to make the same point.  And it's not just public schools -- the Catholic school system in Philadelphia also participates in E-Rate, for example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just about to make the same point .
And it 's not just public schools -- the Catholic school system in Philadelphia also participates in E-Rate , for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just about to make the same point.
And it's not just public schools -- the Catholic school system in Philadelphia also participates in E-Rate, for example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634518</id>
	<title>I'm against censorship for my kids</title>
	<author>hessian</author>
	<datestamp>1269609120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please make sure my kids can see all the anal porn, racism, bomb-making instructions and meth recipes possible. Thanks!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please make sure my kids can see all the anal porn , racism , bomb-making instructions and meth recipes possible .
Thanks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please make sure my kids can see all the anal porn, racism, bomb-making instructions and meth recipes possible.
Thanks!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633686</id>
	<title>Browser Extensions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269603960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Browser Extensions such as Deepnet (http://deepnet.us) are one tool students can use to battle internet censorship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_vSu15E26Ms&amp;feature=player\_embedded</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Browser Extensions such as Deepnet ( http : //deepnet.us ) are one tool students can use to battle internet censorship .
http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = \ _vSu15E26Ms&amp;feature = player \ _embedded</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Browser Extensions such as Deepnet (http://deepnet.us) are one tool students can use to battle internet censorship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_vSu15E26Ms&amp;feature=player\_embedded</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31636202</id>
	<title>Re:Critical thinking</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1269619800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...until they leave school, at which you have no contact with them, and thus no means of control. What was your point again?</p><p>Critical thinking isn't taught because there's a limited time we have these kids to force-feed them all the knowledge we deem necessary in the real world, and some kids have a lot of trouble with it (they take up a lot of time). We expect them to develop critical thinking from real life, from their parents, from their friends, and eventually from their lovers, their co-workers, their college room mate. Basically, from one of the thousands of people they will have contact with over their lives. It's all but a statistical certainty that they'll have their opinions challenged at some point, and for most, it will happen while they're in school, if not before.</p><p>If you challenge a person based on X topic-you're-heavily-interested-in, it's very possible they may not have thought too much about it, and they may not be aware of a controversy surrounding it. That, in no way, implies they are not capable of critical thinking, only that nobody has ever alerted them to the issue (or they've repressed the feelings of unease). There are typically other issues, perhaps only private matters, where they've had an argument in which they've had to critically think.</p><p>Basically, your "unthinking, uncritical people" are a myth, a figment of the paranoid used, ironically, as an instrument of control (to spread such paranoia).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...until they leave school , at which you have no contact with them , and thus no means of control .
What was your point again ? Critical thinking is n't taught because there 's a limited time we have these kids to force-feed them all the knowledge we deem necessary in the real world , and some kids have a lot of trouble with it ( they take up a lot of time ) .
We expect them to develop critical thinking from real life , from their parents , from their friends , and eventually from their lovers , their co-workers , their college room mate .
Basically , from one of the thousands of people they will have contact with over their lives .
It 's all but a statistical certainty that they 'll have their opinions challenged at some point , and for most , it will happen while they 're in school , if not before.If you challenge a person based on X topic-you 're-heavily-interested-in , it 's very possible they may not have thought too much about it , and they may not be aware of a controversy surrounding it .
That , in no way , implies they are not capable of critical thinking , only that nobody has ever alerted them to the issue ( or they 've repressed the feelings of unease ) .
There are typically other issues , perhaps only private matters , where they 've had an argument in which they 've had to critically think.Basically , your " unthinking , uncritical people " are a myth , a figment of the paranoid used , ironically , as an instrument of control ( to spread such paranoia ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...until they leave school, at which you have no contact with them, and thus no means of control.
What was your point again?Critical thinking isn't taught because there's a limited time we have these kids to force-feed them all the knowledge we deem necessary in the real world, and some kids have a lot of trouble with it (they take up a lot of time).
We expect them to develop critical thinking from real life, from their parents, from their friends, and eventually from their lovers, their co-workers, their college room mate.
Basically, from one of the thousands of people they will have contact with over their lives.
It's all but a statistical certainty that they'll have their opinions challenged at some point, and for most, it will happen while they're in school, if not before.If you challenge a person based on X topic-you're-heavily-interested-in, it's very possible they may not have thought too much about it, and they may not be aware of a controversy surrounding it.
That, in no way, implies they are not capable of critical thinking, only that nobody has ever alerted them to the issue (or they've repressed the feelings of unease).
There are typically other issues, perhaps only private matters, where they've had an argument in which they've had to critically think.Basically, your "unthinking, uncritical people" are a myth, a figment of the paranoid used, ironically, as an instrument of control (to spread such paranoia).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632504</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269598080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or pay higher taxes so schools don't have to have restrictive funding. So...that will never happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or pay higher taxes so schools do n't have to have restrictive funding .
So...that will never happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or pay higher taxes so schools don't have to have restrictive funding.
So...that will never happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31639146</id>
	<title>Re:an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>Petaris</author>
	<datestamp>1269702000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this was in the US and was a public K-12 and you didn't at least filter Porn and Child Porn then you were in violation of CIPA.  There would have been consequences including but not limited to loosing E-RATE funding, possibly federal and state funding, lawsuits, possibly having the state take over the school, etc.  If this was a private school you would have lost some of your funding.  Not sure if a proxy qualifies as a filter as, even though your logged which isn't a requirement, does not block those two mandatory categories.</p><p>The reasons for blocking other things are ad-ware/malware/spyware/viruses(virii?), cyber bullying, porn being posted on non-porn sites (forums, blogs, other social media), child predators, law suits because of over protective parents (or parents looking to make a quick buck off of the school), the list goes on and on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this was in the US and was a public K-12 and you did n't at least filter Porn and Child Porn then you were in violation of CIPA .
There would have been consequences including but not limited to loosing E-RATE funding , possibly federal and state funding , lawsuits , possibly having the state take over the school , etc .
If this was a private school you would have lost some of your funding .
Not sure if a proxy qualifies as a filter as , even though your logged which is n't a requirement , does not block those two mandatory categories.The reasons for blocking other things are ad-ware/malware/spyware/viruses ( virii ?
) , cyber bullying , porn being posted on non-porn sites ( forums , blogs , other social media ) , child predators , law suits because of over protective parents ( or parents looking to make a quick buck off of the school ) , the list goes on and on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this was in the US and was a public K-12 and you didn't at least filter Porn and Child Porn then you were in violation of CIPA.
There would have been consequences including but not limited to loosing E-RATE funding, possibly federal and state funding, lawsuits, possibly having the state take over the school, etc.
If this was a private school you would have lost some of your funding.
Not sure if a proxy qualifies as a filter as, even though your logged which isn't a requirement, does not block those two mandatory categories.The reasons for blocking other things are ad-ware/malware/spyware/viruses(virii?
), cyber bullying, porn being posted on non-porn sites (forums, blogs, other social media), child predators, law suits because of over protective parents (or parents looking to make a quick buck off of the school), the list goes on and on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31635374</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>gillbates</author>
	<datestamp>1269614340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
You forgot step 6) Get counseling for the teenage girls who develop self-esteem issues because their bodies don't look anything like the ones in the porn the HS boys are looking at.
</p><p>
Sure, the boys will get punished.  But it's going to recur, every year, as a new class of students inevitably has a few who will look up objectionable content.  And let's not forget the contingent of society who just doesn't care about breaking the rules.  There's no reason kids should be subject to mandated, publicly funded sexual harassment in the name of free inquiry.
</p><p>
There's little point in making the internet wide open in schools when most kids already have unfiltered internet in their homes anyway.  The only thing it does is publicly subsidize the bad apples who want to make trouble.  Those genuinely curious, who have the ability and desire to learn and think critically, are going to get the information anyway.  But most people are not like geeks - if they weren't taught it, they don't know it.  As far as these folks are concerned, the only use for the internet IS porn, email, and filesharing.  They could care less about "Dick" Cheney or breast cancer research.  Turning off the internet filters isn't going to make them any smarter.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgot step 6 ) Get counseling for the teenage girls who develop self-esteem issues because their bodies do n't look anything like the ones in the porn the HS boys are looking at .
Sure , the boys will get punished .
But it 's going to recur , every year , as a new class of students inevitably has a few who will look up objectionable content .
And let 's not forget the contingent of society who just does n't care about breaking the rules .
There 's no reason kids should be subject to mandated , publicly funded sexual harassment in the name of free inquiry .
There 's little point in making the internet wide open in schools when most kids already have unfiltered internet in their homes anyway .
The only thing it does is publicly subsidize the bad apples who want to make trouble .
Those genuinely curious , who have the ability and desire to learn and think critically , are going to get the information anyway .
But most people are not like geeks - if they were n't taught it , they do n't know it .
As far as these folks are concerned , the only use for the internet IS porn , email , and filesharing .
They could care less about " Dick " Cheney or breast cancer research .
Turning off the internet filters is n't going to make them any smarter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
You forgot step 6) Get counseling for the teenage girls who develop self-esteem issues because their bodies don't look anything like the ones in the porn the HS boys are looking at.
Sure, the boys will get punished.
But it's going to recur, every year, as a new class of students inevitably has a few who will look up objectionable content.
And let's not forget the contingent of society who just doesn't care about breaking the rules.
There's no reason kids should be subject to mandated, publicly funded sexual harassment in the name of free inquiry.
There's little point in making the internet wide open in schools when most kids already have unfiltered internet in their homes anyway.
The only thing it does is publicly subsidize the bad apples who want to make trouble.
Those genuinely curious, who have the ability and desire to learn and think critically, are going to get the information anyway.
But most people are not like geeks - if they weren't taught it, they don't know it.
As far as these folks are concerned, the only use for the internet IS porn, email, and filesharing.
They could care less about "Dick" Cheney or breast cancer research.
Turning off the internet filters isn't going to make them any smarter.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632202</id>
	<title>STDs are really nasty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269596820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My mother used to teach Biology at 6th form level (~16-18 year olds.) STDs are really important parts of the syllabus and she found that it was impossible for her students to research the topic on the internet in her college because of proxy filtering. Whilst porn is not appropriate in schools, it is clear that "sex" doesn't mean porn.</p><p>Caveats:<br>1. I am an anonomous coward</p><p>2. I have read only half the summary and not the article (normal here no?)</p><p>3. Long time lurker; Never bothered to post before</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My mother used to teach Biology at 6th form level ( ~ 16-18 year olds .
) STDs are really important parts of the syllabus and she found that it was impossible for her students to research the topic on the internet in her college because of proxy filtering .
Whilst porn is not appropriate in schools , it is clear that " sex " does n't mean porn.Caveats : 1 .
I am an anonomous coward2 .
I have read only half the summary and not the article ( normal here no ? ) 3 .
Long time lurker ; Never bothered to post before</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mother used to teach Biology at 6th form level (~16-18 year olds.
) STDs are really important parts of the syllabus and she found that it was impossible for her students to research the topic on the internet in her college because of proxy filtering.
Whilst porn is not appropriate in schools, it is clear that "sex" doesn't mean porn.Caveats:1.
I am an anonomous coward2.
I have read only half the summary and not the article (normal here no?)3.
Long time lurker; Never bothered to post before</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31644184</id>
	<title>Enlightened parents, huh?</title>
	<author>Trogre</author>
	<datestamp>1269700260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and, often, more <b>liberal</b> parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries.</i></p><p>FTFY</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and , often , more liberal parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries.FTFY</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Students from more affluent areas have access to the Internet at home and, often, more liberal parents who can let them access information blocked in schools and libraries.FTFY</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633882</id>
	<title>To True</title>
	<author>HJED</author>
	<datestamp>1269605040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to agree, Internet censorship rarely works in practise. One place where it has become extremely stupid is at public schools in NSW, Australia which block everything apart from Wikipedia, Google and a few websites they haven't got round to blocking yet (but if you go to them, it is almost guaranteed to be blocked with in the week).  Blocked sites include yahoo, bing, AOL, askjeves, altavista and any Google website that is not www.google.com.au (the au and the www are required).</p><p>This basically makes it impossible to do research on a topic unless Wikipedia has detailed information on in, or unless no one else in the state has researched it recently (it's a black list not a white list). Also interestingly all of slashdot apart from the politics sub-domain is unblocked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree , Internet censorship rarely works in practise .
One place where it has become extremely stupid is at public schools in NSW , Australia which block everything apart from Wikipedia , Google and a few websites they have n't got round to blocking yet ( but if you go to them , it is almost guaranteed to be blocked with in the week ) .
Blocked sites include yahoo , bing , AOL , askjeves , altavista and any Google website that is not www.google.com.au ( the au and the www are required ) .This basically makes it impossible to do research on a topic unless Wikipedia has detailed information on in , or unless no one else in the state has researched it recently ( it 's a black list not a white list ) .
Also interestingly all of slashdot apart from the politics sub-domain is unblocked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree, Internet censorship rarely works in practise.
One place where it has become extremely stupid is at public schools in NSW, Australia which block everything apart from Wikipedia, Google and a few websites they haven't got round to blocking yet (but if you go to them, it is almost guaranteed to be blocked with in the week).
Blocked sites include yahoo, bing, AOL, askjeves, altavista and any Google website that is not www.google.com.au (the au and the www are required).This basically makes it impossible to do research on a topic unless Wikipedia has detailed information on in, or unless no one else in the state has researched it recently (it's a black list not a white list).
Also interestingly all of slashdot apart from the politics sub-domain is unblocked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631778</id>
	<title>So what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269595200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kids in poorer homes probably miss out on a lot of opportunities.   Are you going to legislate that away too ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kids in poorer homes probably miss out on a lot of opportunities .
Are you going to legislate that away too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kids in poorer homes probably miss out on a lot of opportunities.
Are you going to legislate that away too ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633896</id>
	<title>Obligatory</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1269605100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dick Armey? Who's his wife, Vagina Coastguard?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dick Armey ?
Who 's his wife , Vagina Coastguard ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dick Armey?
Who's his wife, Vagina Coastguard?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633264</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269601500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like your idea. Unfortunately it will never work for a myriad of reasons, one of the top being that people simply aren't that sensible when you put them into large bureaucratic groups (schools being a prime example of that).<br> <br>This is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., so, I haven't read the article but the gist I get from the summary is 'If we do not allow kids to be exposed to pornography then we are doing them a disservice!"--- I couldn't disagree more. Are children going to be exposed to pornography and all sorts of questionable content online? Of course. No filters will ever prevent that from happening 100\%. But to say that we need to figure out a system of exposing them to that is ridiculous. I am only in my mid 20s and I remember extremely well the sex ed type classes in my schools and they did not even remotely help the situation at all. They didn't tell a single student in that class anything they hadn't already heard, but they presented it in such a way as to make it taboo and thus more desirable.<br> <br>I am certain most people would heavily disagree with my logic, but I am convinced that many kids, myself included, were reverse coerced and tempted by the pathetic restraints that the schools tried to indoctrinate us against, like drugs. Putting the perception into society that if you smoked pot you would become a loser and go crazy, or if you did a line of coke you would be addicted for life, etc made me want to try them when I realized my friends' older brothers did those things and seemed to be having a great time without going crazy or becoming drug addicts.<br> <br>The other end of the extreme pendulum is telling kids about the fun times they can have on drugs, but the dangers of trouble with the law, etc. So, my summary to this is this: The public education system is in a lose/lose situation because it is a flawed establishment from the get go. Trying to patch up the endless amount of holes overlooks the fact that the foundation is completely flawed.<br> <br>Look up a guy named John Taylor Gatto. He has some fascinating books on the topic. 'The Six Lesson Schoolteacher' is a paper that opened my eyes to concepts I had experienced but didn't fully comprehend.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like your idea .
Unfortunately it will never work for a myriad of reasons , one of the top being that people simply are n't that sensible when you put them into large bureaucratic groups ( schools being a prime example of that ) .
This is /. , so , I have n't read the article but the gist I get from the summary is 'If we do not allow kids to be exposed to pornography then we are doing them a disservice !
" --- I could n't disagree more .
Are children going to be exposed to pornography and all sorts of questionable content online ?
Of course .
No filters will ever prevent that from happening 100 \ % .
But to say that we need to figure out a system of exposing them to that is ridiculous .
I am only in my mid 20s and I remember extremely well the sex ed type classes in my schools and they did not even remotely help the situation at all .
They did n't tell a single student in that class anything they had n't already heard , but they presented it in such a way as to make it taboo and thus more desirable .
I am certain most people would heavily disagree with my logic , but I am convinced that many kids , myself included , were reverse coerced and tempted by the pathetic restraints that the schools tried to indoctrinate us against , like drugs .
Putting the perception into society that if you smoked pot you would become a loser and go crazy , or if you did a line of coke you would be addicted for life , etc made me want to try them when I realized my friends ' older brothers did those things and seemed to be having a great time without going crazy or becoming drug addicts .
The other end of the extreme pendulum is telling kids about the fun times they can have on drugs , but the dangers of trouble with the law , etc .
So , my summary to this is this : The public education system is in a lose/lose situation because it is a flawed establishment from the get go .
Trying to patch up the endless amount of holes overlooks the fact that the foundation is completely flawed .
Look up a guy named John Taylor Gatto .
He has some fascinating books on the topic .
'The Six Lesson Schoolteacher ' is a paper that opened my eyes to concepts I had experienced but did n't fully comprehend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like your idea.
Unfortunately it will never work for a myriad of reasons, one of the top being that people simply aren't that sensible when you put them into large bureaucratic groups (schools being a prime example of that).
This is /., so, I haven't read the article but the gist I get from the summary is 'If we do not allow kids to be exposed to pornography then we are doing them a disservice!
"--- I couldn't disagree more.
Are children going to be exposed to pornography and all sorts of questionable content online?
Of course.
No filters will ever prevent that from happening 100\%.
But to say that we need to figure out a system of exposing them to that is ridiculous.
I am only in my mid 20s and I remember extremely well the sex ed type classes in my schools and they did not even remotely help the situation at all.
They didn't tell a single student in that class anything they hadn't already heard, but they presented it in such a way as to make it taboo and thus more desirable.
I am certain most people would heavily disagree with my logic, but I am convinced that many kids, myself included, were reverse coerced and tempted by the pathetic restraints that the schools tried to indoctrinate us against, like drugs.
Putting the perception into society that if you smoked pot you would become a loser and go crazy, or if you did a line of coke you would be addicted for life, etc made me want to try them when I realized my friends' older brothers did those things and seemed to be having a great time without going crazy or becoming drug addicts.
The other end of the extreme pendulum is telling kids about the fun times they can have on drugs, but the dangers of trouble with the law, etc.
So, my summary to this is this: The public education system is in a lose/lose situation because it is a flawed establishment from the get go.
Trying to patch up the endless amount of holes overlooks the fact that the foundation is completely flawed.
Look up a guy named John Taylor Gatto.
He has some fascinating books on the topic.
'The Six Lesson Schoolteacher' is a paper that opened my eyes to concepts I had experienced but didn't fully comprehend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634672</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1269610140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teach people how to get their studies done, even with access to loads of porn, swimming pools full of hot chicks, and computer games, and you will have much more successful people later, <strong>IN REAL LIFE</strong>!!</p><p>Besides: How can a human with a working brain think that the word &ldquo;dick&rdquo; is bad for children?<br>There was a study by the respected German scientist Prof. Dr. Kurt Starke, that examines the relation between pornography and the development of the youth, which does not find anything negative. On the contrary: Feelings of guilt and bans create a climate, that is harmful to growing up. About the current &ldquo;youth protection laws&rdquo; he says that: &ldquo;From the point of view of sexology and youth science, and in consideration of the analysis in the present expert report, the respective [laws] are not only useless and in practice unenforceable, but latent or actually harmful for the youth. Dangers for the youth, from which the ban of &ldquo;simple pornography&rdquo; could protect, are scientifically unverifiable.&rdquo;<br>And further &ldquo;The prevalent criminal law constitutes a deep invasion of the sexual self-determination, which it&rsquo;s actually supposed to protect, not only in its dimension of damage but also in the protection of its development.&rdquo;<br>[Manually translated from German; <a href="http://www.presseportal.de/showbin.htx?id=144167&amp;type=document&amp;action=download&amp;attname=Prof-Dr-Starke\_Studie\_Pornographie.pdf" title="presseportal.de">source</a> [presseportal.de]; <a href="http://11k2.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/pornografie-und-die-jugendschutz-luge/" title="wordpress.com">via</a> [wordpress.com]]</p><p>But the current episode of South Park also says it very well: <a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1402/" title="southparkstudios.com">http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1402/</a> [southparkstudios.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Teach people how to get their studies done , even with access to loads of porn , swimming pools full of hot chicks , and computer games , and you will have much more successful people later , IN REAL LIFE !
! Besides : How can a human with a working brain think that the word    dick    is bad for children ? There was a study by the respected German scientist Prof. Dr. Kurt Starke , that examines the relation between pornography and the development of the youth , which does not find anything negative .
On the contrary : Feelings of guilt and bans create a climate , that is harmful to growing up .
About the current    youth protection laws    he says that :    From the point of view of sexology and youth science , and in consideration of the analysis in the present expert report , the respective [ laws ] are not only useless and in practice unenforceable , but latent or actually harmful for the youth .
Dangers for the youth , from which the ban of    simple pornography    could protect , are scientifically unverifiable.    And further    The prevalent criminal law constitutes a deep invasion of the sexual self-determination , which it    s actually supposed to protect , not only in its dimension of damage but also in the protection of its development.    [ Manually translated from German ; source [ presseportal.de ] ; via [ wordpress.com ] ] But the current episode of South Park also says it very well : http : //www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1402/ [ southparkstudios.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teach people how to get their studies done, even with access to loads of porn, swimming pools full of hot chicks, and computer games, and you will have much more successful people later, IN REAL LIFE!
!Besides: How can a human with a working brain think that the word “dick” is bad for children?There was a study by the respected German scientist Prof. Dr. Kurt Starke, that examines the relation between pornography and the development of the youth, which does not find anything negative.
On the contrary: Feelings of guilt and bans create a climate, that is harmful to growing up.
About the current “youth protection laws” he says that: “From the point of view of sexology and youth science, and in consideration of the analysis in the present expert report, the respective [laws] are not only useless and in practice unenforceable, but latent or actually harmful for the youth.
Dangers for the youth, from which the ban of “simple pornography” could protect, are scientifically unverifiable.”And further “The prevalent criminal law constitutes a deep invasion of the sexual self-determination, which it’s actually supposed to protect, not only in its dimension of damage but also in the protection of its development.”[Manually translated from German; source [presseportal.de]; via [wordpress.com]]But the current episode of South Park also says it very well: http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1402/ [southparkstudios.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633104</id>
	<title>Re:but</title>
	<author>ObsessiveMathsFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1269600600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this debate is over. Nothing more to discuss people; move along!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this debate is over .
Nothing more to discuss people ; move along !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this debate is over.
Nothing more to discuss people; move along!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632454</id>
	<title>You can't teach that in shcool.</title>
	<author>mosb1000</author>
	<datestamp>1269597900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Children don't learn critical thinking in school because critical thinking can't be learned in a controlled environment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Children do n't learn critical thinking in school because critical thinking ca n't be learned in a controlled environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children don't learn critical thinking in school because critical thinking can't be learned in a controlled environment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633872</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>plaxion</author>
	<datestamp>1269604980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you obviously have no experience with schools.</p><p>I work for several school districts and we have all of that except for the part of leaving it wide open and it's still a major problem. Also, it's hard enough to keep up with the numerous cases where they intentionally got around the filters, now you want every one of them to have unfettered access?</p><p>Basically what will happen is that every kid in the school will end up breaking the AUP too many times. What do you propose we do then, pull the plug on the router? Why not just do that first and save the enormous cost of your experiment with futility?</p><p>Listen, I'm no prude. Personally, my viewpoint is that Timmy can surf for pr0n all he wants, but he needs to learn to do it at home, just like when he grows up and goes into the workforce. Also, the rule for schools is "no pr0n" and the filters are just a way for us to automate saying "no, that's against the rules" without having to pay for an adult to be over every kids shoulder at all times telling them what they can and can't click on ahead of time. So there you go, we're teaching and not stifling after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope you do n't take this the wrong way , but you obviously have no experience with schools.I work for several school districts and we have all of that except for the part of leaving it wide open and it 's still a major problem .
Also , it 's hard enough to keep up with the numerous cases where they intentionally got around the filters , now you want every one of them to have unfettered access ? Basically what will happen is that every kid in the school will end up breaking the AUP too many times .
What do you propose we do then , pull the plug on the router ?
Why not just do that first and save the enormous cost of your experiment with futility ? Listen , I 'm no prude .
Personally , my viewpoint is that Timmy can surf for pr0n all he wants , but he needs to learn to do it at home , just like when he grows up and goes into the workforce .
Also , the rule for schools is " no pr0n " and the filters are just a way for us to automate saying " no , that 's against the rules " without having to pay for an adult to be over every kids shoulder at all times telling them what they can and ca n't click on ahead of time .
So there you go , we 're teaching and not stifling after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you obviously have no experience with schools.I work for several school districts and we have all of that except for the part of leaving it wide open and it's still a major problem.
Also, it's hard enough to keep up with the numerous cases where they intentionally got around the filters, now you want every one of them to have unfettered access?Basically what will happen is that every kid in the school will end up breaking the AUP too many times.
What do you propose we do then, pull the plug on the router?
Why not just do that first and save the enormous cost of your experiment with futility?Listen, I'm no prude.
Personally, my viewpoint is that Timmy can surf for pr0n all he wants, but he needs to learn to do it at home, just like when he grows up and goes into the workforce.
Also, the rule for schools is "no pr0n" and the filters are just a way for us to automate saying "no, that's against the rules" without having to pay for an adult to be over every kids shoulder at all times telling them what they can and can't click on ahead of time.
So there you go, we're teaching and not stifling after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31645758</id>
	<title>Re:an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269807720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I helped run the network for a school a while back. We didn't filter anything.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p> This was even the school for "bad kids"</p></div><p>Newsflash for you, Einstein. The "Bad" kids aren't the ones who go whining to the teachers when they see someone downloading 4chan in the library, it's the "good" kids.</p><p>Frankly you dodged a bullet- you are admitting to knowingly exposing young children to Rape, Child Porn, Beastiality, Snuff flicks, Communism, and Al Qaeda. The wrong parent gets a hold of that info &amp; you're not just looking for a new job, you're looking at jail time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I helped run the network for a school a while back .
We did n't filter anything .
This was even the school for " bad kids " Newsflash for you , Einstein .
The " Bad " kids are n't the ones who go whining to the teachers when they see someone downloading 4chan in the library , it 's the " good " kids.Frankly you dodged a bullet- you are admitting to knowingly exposing young children to Rape , Child Porn , Beastiality , Snuff flicks , Communism , and Al Qaeda .
The wrong parent gets a hold of that info &amp; you 're not just looking for a new job , you 're looking at jail time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I helped run the network for a school a while back.
We didn't filter anything.
This was even the school for "bad kids"Newsflash for you, Einstein.
The "Bad" kids aren't the ones who go whining to the teachers when they see someone downloading 4chan in the library, it's the "good" kids.Frankly you dodged a bullet- you are admitting to knowingly exposing young children to Rape, Child Porn, Beastiality, Snuff flicks, Communism, and Al Qaeda.
The wrong parent gets a hold of that info &amp; you're not just looking for a new job, you're looking at jail time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31635592</id>
	<title>Re:Webfilters, a great motivator!</title>
	<author>halcyon1234</author>
	<datestamp>1269615540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work, put a filter between them in the internet. They'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they're smart. And if they're too stupid to break out, think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid.</p></div></blockquote><p>
hehe. Funny, but painfully true. The smart ones get around the filters without blinking. And they're also a boon for the teachers whose jobs are impeded by these systems. I know some teachers <a href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Bessy-Keeps-You-Safe.aspx" title="thedailywtf.com">who have been through it</a> [thedailywtf.com]. (yes, yes, shameless self promotion =) )
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work , put a filter between them in the internet .
They 'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they 're smart .
And if they 're too stupid to break out , think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid .
hehe. Funny , but painfully true .
The smart ones get around the filters without blinking .
And they 're also a boon for the teachers whose jobs are impeded by these systems .
I know some teachers who have been through it [ thedailywtf.com ] .
( yes , yes , shameless self promotion = ) )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you really want a kid to learn how computers work, put a filter between them in the internet.
They'll figure out a way to circumvent it if they're smart.
And if they're too stupid to break out, think of it as a your-kid filter for the internet and not an internet filter for your kid.
hehe. Funny, but painfully true.
The smart ones get around the filters without blinking.
And they're also a boon for the teachers whose jobs are impeded by these systems.
I know some teachers who have been through it [thedailywtf.com].
(yes, yes, shameless self promotion =) )

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31643618</id>
	<title>The lawsuit is in the post</title>
	<author>rathaven</author>
	<datestamp>1269693960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
This is missing the point.<br> <br>  Schools apply filtering, not only to protect children but also to protect themselves as organisations.  If you have no filtering then all it takes is a overzealous parent and a lawyer or journalist.  The school's reputation is sullied affecting intake of students, funding and in all likelihood the long term viability of the school without being put into special measures and having control taken from the governing body running them. <br> <br> Schools pay &pound;000's to filter traffic because the consequences of not doing it are worse for the school and therefore the students that they do manage to educate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is missing the point .
Schools apply filtering , not only to protect children but also to protect themselves as organisations .
If you have no filtering then all it takes is a overzealous parent and a lawyer or journalist .
The school 's reputation is sullied affecting intake of students , funding and in all likelihood the long term viability of the school without being put into special measures and having control taken from the governing body running them .
Schools pay   000 's to filter traffic because the consequences of not doing it are worse for the school and therefore the students that they do manage to educate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
This is missing the point.
Schools apply filtering, not only to protect children but also to protect themselves as organisations.
If you have no filtering then all it takes is a overzealous parent and a lawyer or journalist.
The school's reputation is sullied affecting intake of students, funding and in all likelihood the long term viability of the school without being put into special measures and having control taken from the governing body running them.
Schools pay £000's to filter traffic because the consequences of not doing it are worse for the school and therefore the students that they do manage to educate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632526</id>
	<title>Missing the point.</title>
	<author>Mekkah</author>
	<datestamp>1269598140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Guys, seriously?  Everyone agrees filtering can be bad and blocks good/legit websites!  But think about it from the administrations perspective.  You see schools getting sued all the time and teachers getting fired for mentioning different religions, sex, drugs, evolution in Texas.  The problem isn't that there isn't a need for the hard filtering, we need to prevent these dumb as shit lawsuits from going anywhere and let teachers teach.
<br> <br>Parents, take responsibility for your dumbass kid and spank his 17 year old ass when he looks at porn at school, don't complain that he was able to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Guys , seriously ?
Everyone agrees filtering can be bad and blocks good/legit websites !
But think about it from the administrations perspective .
You see schools getting sued all the time and teachers getting fired for mentioning different religions , sex , drugs , evolution in Texas .
The problem is n't that there is n't a need for the hard filtering , we need to prevent these dumb as shit lawsuits from going anywhere and let teachers teach .
Parents , take responsibility for your dumbass kid and spank his 17 year old ass when he looks at porn at school , do n't complain that he was able to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guys, seriously?
Everyone agrees filtering can be bad and blocks good/legit websites!
But think about it from the administrations perspective.
You see schools getting sued all the time and teachers getting fired for mentioning different religions, sex, drugs, evolution in Texas.
The problem isn't that there isn't a need for the hard filtering, we need to prevent these dumb as shit lawsuits from going anywhere and let teachers teach.
Parents, take responsibility for your dumbass kid and spank his 17 year old ass when he looks at porn at school, don't complain that he was able to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31638454</id>
	<title>Re:Right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269693720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously noone involved in this study actually talked to anyone who works in a school IT department. You lock them down as tight as humanly possible unless you want to be fixing computers all day and getting nothing else done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously noone involved in this study actually talked to anyone who works in a school IT department .
You lock them down as tight as humanly possible unless you want to be fixing computers all day and getting nothing else done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously noone involved in this study actually talked to anyone who works in a school IT department.
You lock them down as tight as humanly possible unless you want to be fixing computers all day and getting nothing else done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</id>
	<title>No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1269594780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No single solution will be perfect in a "for the children" argument.</p><p>Here is what I would do/suggest.</p><p>1) Make a sensible AUP for school computers.  No Porn, etc.</p><p>2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP. (No cops, no expulsions.  Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.)</p><p>3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student.</p><p>4) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.</p><p>5) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters, or under direct supervision (read: someone watching over your shoulder) in addition to normal punishment.</p><p>Don't coddle.  Don't expell.  Don't freak out.  Just teach the kids what is and isn't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.</p><p>Yes, this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time.  Big f'in deal.  For me the net wasn't around and I saw good ol' VHS tapes.  It happens whether you threaten death as a punishment or cookies as a reward.  It will still happen.</p><p>But in my opinion.  School is there to learn, not stifle.  Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.</p><p>Sadly, probably won't happen because little miss perfect's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No single solution will be perfect in a " for the children " argument.Here is what I would do/suggest.1 ) Make a sensible AUP for school computers .
No Porn , etc.2 ) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP .
( No cops , no expulsions .
Detention sure , suspension/parental notification , if you have to .
) 3 ) Leave the net \ _wide open \ _ for each student.4 ) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.5 ) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters , or under direct supervision ( read : someone watching over your shoulder ) in addition to normal punishment.Do n't coddle .
Do n't expell .
Do n't freak out .
Just teach the kids what is and is n't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.Yes , this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time .
Big f'in deal .
For me the net was n't around and I saw good ol ' VHS tapes .
It happens whether you threaten death as a punishment or cookies as a reward .
It will still happen.But in my opinion .
School is there to learn , not stifle .
Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.Sadly , probably wo n't happen because little miss perfect 's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No single solution will be perfect in a "for the children" argument.Here is what I would do/suggest.1) Make a sensible AUP for school computers.
No Porn, etc.2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP.
(No cops, no expulsions.
Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.
)3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student.4) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.5) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters, or under direct supervision (read: someone watching over your shoulder) in addition to normal punishment.Don't coddle.
Don't expell.
Don't freak out.
Just teach the kids what is and isn't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.Yes, this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time.
Big f'in deal.
For me the net wasn't around and I saw good ol' VHS tapes.
It happens whether you threaten death as a punishment or cookies as a reward.
It will still happen.But in my opinion.
School is there to learn, not stifle.
Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.Sadly, probably won't happen because little miss perfect's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631980</id>
	<title>Internet Filtering is a false promise</title>
	<author>mcspoo</author>
	<datestamp>1269596040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Internet filtering is a false promise. It provides a false sense of security: no one will be able to look at naked women and Goats.cx with filtering on. Its a business function completely based upon a false premise. <br>
Many tools exist that even kids can understand to bypass filtering. For example, Circumventor. Totally simple way to bypass lots of security filters. URL obfuscation. Sites exist to HELP you obfuscate URLs.<br>
In the vein of the article... assuming you MUST use filtering (and many libraries must in order to get state/federal funding... ) its entirely correct: the decision on what is obscene and what is not should not be made by a system admin or more specifically, by a software developer who may exist in a completely different community with entirely different views on what is obscene and what is not.<br>
Oh, and I <b>AM</b> thinking of the children. I don't want my kids growing up to be afraid of swear words, naked people, or other obscenities, and retreating from society to hide in a Pakistan cave...
Technology cannot cure society ills. At least not until we can effectively erase free will and turn everyone into automatons...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Internet filtering is a false promise .
It provides a false sense of security : no one will be able to look at naked women and Goats.cx with filtering on .
Its a business function completely based upon a false premise .
Many tools exist that even kids can understand to bypass filtering .
For example , Circumventor .
Totally simple way to bypass lots of security filters .
URL obfuscation .
Sites exist to HELP you obfuscate URLs .
In the vein of the article... assuming you MUST use filtering ( and many libraries must in order to get state/federal funding... ) its entirely correct : the decision on what is obscene and what is not should not be made by a system admin or more specifically , by a software developer who may exist in a completely different community with entirely different views on what is obscene and what is not .
Oh , and I AM thinking of the children .
I do n't want my kids growing up to be afraid of swear words , naked people , or other obscenities , and retreating from society to hide in a Pakistan cave.. . Technology can not cure society ills .
At least not until we can effectively erase free will and turn everyone into automatons.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Internet filtering is a false promise.
It provides a false sense of security: no one will be able to look at naked women and Goats.cx with filtering on.
Its a business function completely based upon a false premise.
Many tools exist that even kids can understand to bypass filtering.
For example, Circumventor.
Totally simple way to bypass lots of security filters.
URL obfuscation.
Sites exist to HELP you obfuscate URLs.
In the vein of the article... assuming you MUST use filtering (and many libraries must in order to get state/federal funding... ) its entirely correct: the decision on what is obscene and what is not should not be made by a system admin or more specifically, by a software developer who may exist in a completely different community with entirely different views on what is obscene and what is not.
Oh, and I AM thinking of the children.
I don't want my kids growing up to be afraid of swear words, naked people, or other obscenities, and retreating from society to hide in a Pakistan cave...
Technology cannot cure society ills.
At least not until we can effectively erase free will and turn everyone into automatons...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633454</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269602580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Finally someone who actually knows what the real deal is... sadly, your post is so far down the page, hardly anyone will see it, modded up or not.</p><p>Thanks for at least showing up and throwing it out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Finally someone who actually knows what the real deal is... sadly , your post is so far down the page , hardly anyone will see it , modded up or not.Thanks for at least showing up and throwing it out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Finally someone who actually knows what the real deal is... sadly, your post is so far down the page, hardly anyone will see it, modded up or not.Thanks for at least showing up and throwing it out there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633684</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1269603960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP. (No cops, no expulsions. Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.)</i> </p><p>Parental notification is essential.</p><p>Parents will go nuclear when they discover that you have been covering up for their kids when were caught surfing for porn.</p><p>Nothing can be so bad that someone else calling the cops won't make worse. You do not have the luxury of ignoring state and federal law.</p><p>3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student. </p><p>It isn't going to happen. Not in the public school. Not in the evangelical Protestant or Catholic private school. Not in any school under the supervision of a state board of education. Not in any school receiving federal funding.</p><p><i>Yes, this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time. Big f'in deal. For me the net wasn't around and I saw good ol' VHS tapes</i> </p><p>Sold over or under the counter?</p><p> There has always been a world of difference between porn as a mass-market product and the truly hardcore stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 ) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP .
( No cops , no expulsions .
Detention sure , suspension/parental notification , if you have to .
) Parental notification is essential.Parents will go nuclear when they discover that you have been covering up for their kids when were caught surfing for porn.Nothing can be so bad that someone else calling the cops wo n't make worse .
You do not have the luxury of ignoring state and federal law.3 ) Leave the net \ _wide open \ _ for each student .
It is n't going to happen .
Not in the public school .
Not in the evangelical Protestant or Catholic private school .
Not in any school under the supervision of a state board of education .
Not in any school receiving federal funding.Yes , this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time .
Big f'in deal .
For me the net was n't around and I saw good ol ' VHS tapes Sold over or under the counter ?
There has always been a world of difference between porn as a mass-market product and the truly hardcore stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP.
(No cops, no expulsions.
Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.
) Parental notification is essential.Parents will go nuclear when they discover that you have been covering up for their kids when were caught surfing for porn.Nothing can be so bad that someone else calling the cops won't make worse.
You do not have the luxury of ignoring state and federal law.3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student.
It isn't going to happen.
Not in the public school.
Not in the evangelical Protestant or Catholic private school.
Not in any school under the supervision of a state board of education.
Not in any school receiving federal funding.Yes, this means kids might get exposed to hardcore porn from time to time.
Big f'in deal.
For me the net wasn't around and I saw good ol' VHS tapes Sold over or under the counter?
There has always been a world of difference between porn as a mass-market product and the truly hardcore stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632076</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>edmicman</author>
	<datestamp>1269596400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Haha when I drink I don't get stupid, I get AWESOME!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Haha when I drink I do n't get stupid , I get AWESOME !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haha when I drink I don't get stupid, I get AWESOME!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634274</id>
	<title>I've never been bothered by the filters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at a rural k12 school district. I would have to say I have an ecclectic internet pattern and Ive only run into a blocked page a handful of times. I have to say I ejoy the filtered internet as I dont see ads or get distracted by the other parts of the internet.</p><p>I've never hit a blocked political, wikipedia, religous, or academic page. Social networking, and video services are blocked but thats more of a bandwidth issue than censorship. It really comes down to CiPA which says no porn for children. This is not inconsistent with a bunch of other laws on the books (ie, 18 to buy a playboy? i mean come on thats tame compared to the stuff on the net).</p><p>It really comes down to this; angry repressed white folk dont like the idea of children viewing naked human bodies. I think, they think, everyone will go plum crazy and fuck like rabitts in the street. if a majority of young people get exposed to their sexuality at a early age. This will cause them to be viewed as prudes, and will seriously impact their getten any.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at a rural k12 school district .
I would have to say I have an ecclectic internet pattern and Ive only run into a blocked page a handful of times .
I have to say I ejoy the filtered internet as I dont see ads or get distracted by the other parts of the internet.I 've never hit a blocked political , wikipedia , religous , or academic page .
Social networking , and video services are blocked but thats more of a bandwidth issue than censorship .
It really comes down to CiPA which says no porn for children .
This is not inconsistent with a bunch of other laws on the books ( ie , 18 to buy a playboy ?
i mean come on thats tame compared to the stuff on the net ) .It really comes down to this ; angry repressed white folk dont like the idea of children viewing naked human bodies .
I think , they think , everyone will go plum crazy and fuck like rabitts in the street .
if a majority of young people get exposed to their sexuality at a early age .
This will cause them to be viewed as prudes , and will seriously impact their getten any .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at a rural k12 school district.
I would have to say I have an ecclectic internet pattern and Ive only run into a blocked page a handful of times.
I have to say I ejoy the filtered internet as I dont see ads or get distracted by the other parts of the internet.I've never hit a blocked political, wikipedia, religous, or academic page.
Social networking, and video services are blocked but thats more of a bandwidth issue than censorship.
It really comes down to CiPA which says no porn for children.
This is not inconsistent with a bunch of other laws on the books (ie, 18 to buy a playboy?
i mean come on thats tame compared to the stuff on the net).It really comes down to this; angry repressed white folk dont like the idea of children viewing naked human bodies.
I think, they think, everyone will go plum crazy and fuck like rabitts in the street.
if a majority of young people get exposed to their sexuality at a early age.
This will cause them to be viewed as prudes, and will seriously impact their getten any.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634364</id>
	<title>The pool analogy is flawed</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1269608100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if you DO teach the kids to swim, that doesn't necessarily mean its safe to allow young kids to swim without supervision.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if you DO teach the kids to swim , that does n't necessarily mean its safe to allow young kids to swim without supervision .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if you DO teach the kids to swim, that doesn't necessarily mean its safe to allow young kids to swim without supervision.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631824</id>
	<title>We live in a world that promotes the Nanny state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269595380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i> The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites, says Craig Cunningham, a professor at National-Louis University.</i>

</p><p> <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/25/teachers-leave-boy-stranded-tree-school-policy/" title="foxnews.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/25/teachers-leave-boy-stranded-tree-school-policy/</a> [foxnews.com]

</p><p>That is a story about a 5 year old being stranded in a tree.  The teachers "watched from afar" because of a school policy.  A passerby stopped to help, and now faces possible legal action.  That example happens to from the UK, but there is plenty of the same sort of thing going on in the US.  We are being conditioned to not to do anything without the approval and assistance of the government.

</p><p>The Nanny state would not like it if people could think critically all on their own without the government there to make sure they don't hurt themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society , and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites , says Craig Cunningham , a professor at National-Louis University .
http : //www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/25/teachers-leave-boy-stranded-tree-school-policy/ [ foxnews.com ] That is a story about a 5 year old being stranded in a tree .
The teachers " watched from afar " because of a school policy .
A passerby stopped to help , and now faces possible legal action .
That example happens to from the UK , but there is plenty of the same sort of thing going on in the US .
We are being conditioned to not to do anything without the approval and assistance of the government .
The Nanny state would not like it if people could think critically all on their own without the government there to make sure they do n't hurt themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking and showing students controversial Web sites, says Craig Cunningham, a professor at National-Louis University.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03/25/teachers-leave-boy-stranded-tree-school-policy/ [foxnews.com]

That is a story about a 5 year old being stranded in a tree.
The teachers "watched from afar" because of a school policy.
A passerby stopped to help, and now faces possible legal action.
That example happens to from the UK, but there is plenty of the same sort of thing going on in the US.
We are being conditioned to not to do anything without the approval and assistance of the government.
The Nanny state would not like it if people could think critically all on their own without the government there to make sure they don't hurt themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631670</id>
	<title>Critical thinking</title>
	<author>Dracos</author>
	<datestamp>1269594720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Children aren't taught critical thinking because they might grow up to be... critical thinkers.</p><p>Unthinking, uncritical people are easier to control and/or coerce to your will.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Children are n't taught critical thinking because they might grow up to be... critical thinkers.Unthinking , uncritical people are easier to control and/or coerce to your will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children aren't taught critical thinking because they might grow up to be... critical thinkers.Unthinking, uncritical people are easier to control and/or coerce to your will.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632970</id>
	<title>Re:Critical thinking</title>
	<author>stimpleton</author>
	<datestamp>1269600120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Under Pol Pot, in the killing Fields of Cambodia, intellectuals were put in camps or executed.  Ironic, that today, many first world govts  desire dumbed down masses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Under Pol Pot , in the killing Fields of Cambodia , intellectuals were put in camps or executed .
Ironic , that today , many first world govts desire dumbed down masses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Under Pol Pot, in the killing Fields of Cambodia, intellectuals were put in camps or executed.
Ironic, that today, many first world govts  desire dumbed down masses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631476</id>
	<title>Think of the...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Swimming pools can be dangerous for children. To protect them, one can install locks<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... [or] teach them to swim.'</p></div></blockquote><p>Won't somebody think of the lock makers!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Swimming pools can be dangerous for children .
To protect them , one can install locks ... [ or ] teach them to swim .
'Wo n't somebody think of the lock makers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Swimming pools can be dangerous for children.
To protect them, one can install locks ... [or] teach them to swim.
'Won't somebody think of the lock makers!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632760</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269599100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters</p></div> </blockquote><p>When I was in school, the only filters were in the teacher's lounge next to the coffee maker. But we did have access to the net; it was hanging from a basketball goal.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters When I was in school , the only filters were in the teacher 's lounge next to the coffee maker .
But we did have access to the net ; it was hanging from a basketball goal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters When I was in school, the only filters were in the teacher's lounge next to the coffee maker.
But we did have access to the net; it was hanging from a basketball goal.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631820</id>
	<title>Legalities</title>
	<author>squ3lch</author>
	<datestamp>1269595380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It may be all about lawsuits.  If some precious snowflake sees another looking at some illicit site at school and tells his parents, the school would almost certainly face legal repercussions because it was "preventable" on some level.  Block 'em all and you don't have to deal with that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It may be all about lawsuits .
If some precious snowflake sees another looking at some illicit site at school and tells his parents , the school would almost certainly face legal repercussions because it was " preventable " on some level .
Block 'em all and you do n't have to deal with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It may be all about lawsuits.
If some precious snowflake sees another looking at some illicit site at school and tells his parents, the school would almost certainly face legal repercussions because it was "preventable" on some level.
Block 'em all and you don't have to deal with that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633042</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>SheeEttin</author>
	<datestamp>1269600360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.</p></div></blockquote><p>You don't even know how ridiculous the blocklists are. I once tried to show my physics teacher the XKCD comic "<a href="http://www.xkcd.com/123/" title="xkcd.com">Centrifugal Force</a> [xkcd.com]", but xkcd.com was blocked for "sexuality".<br>
Oh, and the time I ran the site for the Journalism class? For whatever reason, random files (like icons--I remember a gear icon in particular) would get blocked. I eventually went to IT and asked them to unblock the domain. Few days later, one of the techs shows up, "What's the problem?" "Random pages getting blocked. Here's an example." "Oh, can you print out that page? We'll take care of it." "Sure." Later, no change. I go back, and it turns out they whitelisted <i>that one icon</i>, even though I said several times to whitelist the whole domain. (Seriously, what could go up that's objectionably? We moderated all comments...)<br>
And YouTube. They blacklisted www.youtube.com... but <i>specifically whitelisted youtube.com</i>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.You do n't even know how ridiculous the blocklists are .
I once tried to show my physics teacher the XKCD comic " Centrifugal Force [ xkcd.com ] " , but xkcd.com was blocked for " sexuality " .
Oh , and the time I ran the site for the Journalism class ?
For whatever reason , random files ( like icons--I remember a gear icon in particular ) would get blocked .
I eventually went to IT and asked them to unblock the domain .
Few days later , one of the techs shows up , " What 's the problem ?
" " Random pages getting blocked .
Here 's an example .
" " Oh , can you print out that page ?
We 'll take care of it .
" " Sure .
" Later , no change .
I go back , and it turns out they whitelisted that one icon , even though I said several times to whitelist the whole domain .
( Seriously , what could go up that 's objectionably ?
We moderated all comments... ) And YouTube .
They blacklisted www.youtube.com... but specifically whitelisted youtube.com .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever.You don't even know how ridiculous the blocklists are.
I once tried to show my physics teacher the XKCD comic "Centrifugal Force [xkcd.com]", but xkcd.com was blocked for "sexuality".
Oh, and the time I ran the site for the Journalism class?
For whatever reason, random files (like icons--I remember a gear icon in particular) would get blocked.
I eventually went to IT and asked them to unblock the domain.
Few days later, one of the techs shows up, "What's the problem?
" "Random pages getting blocked.
Here's an example.
" "Oh, can you print out that page?
We'll take care of it.
" "Sure.
" Later, no change.
I go back, and it turns out they whitelisted that one icon, even though I said several times to whitelist the whole domain.
(Seriously, what could go up that's objectionably?
We moderated all comments...)
And YouTube.
They blacklisted www.youtube.com... but specifically whitelisted youtube.com.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632634</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose is not to protect children...</title>
	<author>stimpleton</author>
	<datestamp>1269598560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is unfortunately become true. I repeat here a quote from a early child teacher at a pre-school center on the glass walls: "It is for the protection of the staff".</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is unfortunately become true .
I repeat here a quote from a early child teacher at a pre-school center on the glass walls : " It is for the protection of the staff " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is unfortunately become true.
I repeat here a quote from a early child teacher at a pre-school center on the glass walls: "It is for the protection of the staff".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632662</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1269598680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>use a wireless air card</p></div><p>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some muds</p></div><p>Dear lord.  I remember Winsock-Trumpet, Gopher, and PINE.  Porn wasn't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text.  And YOU feel old...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some mudsDear lord .
I remember Winsock-Trumpet , Gopher , and PINE .
Porn was n't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text .
And YOU feel old.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some mudsDear lord.
I remember Winsock-Trumpet, Gopher, and PINE.
Porn wasn't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text.
And YOU feel old...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634228</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose is not to protect children...</title>
	<author>BlakJak-ZL1VMF</author>
	<datestamp>1269607260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bah I was going to mod this one up, but NoScript broke it.<br>I expect the filtering is mainly an arse-covering exercise on the part of the Library/School/Etc so they can at least claim to be making 'reasonable efforts' to protect the kids from Internet Nasties.<br>Agree it's probably the wrong approach, but you can understand why this is a problem in America (the land of litigation)...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah I was going to mod this one up , but NoScript broke it.I expect the filtering is mainly an arse-covering exercise on the part of the Library/School/Etc so they can at least claim to be making 'reasonable efforts ' to protect the kids from Internet Nasties.Agree it 's probably the wrong approach , but you can understand why this is a problem in America ( the land of litigation ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah I was going to mod this one up, but NoScript broke it.I expect the filtering is mainly an arse-covering exercise on the part of the Library/School/Etc so they can at least claim to be making 'reasonable efforts' to protect the kids from Internet Nasties.Agree it's probably the wrong approach, but you can understand why this is a problem in America (the land of litigation)...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631846</id>
	<title>Bwahahahahhahahah!</title>
	<author>joshamania</author>
	<datestamp>1269595560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking..."</p><p>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society , and that means teaching critical thinking... " BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The purpose of schools should be to teach students to live in a democratic society, and that means teaching critical thinking..."BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633832</id>
	<title>now this is EVIL</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>where is Sergey the pious when you need him the most?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>where is Sergey the pious when you need him the most ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>where is Sergey the pious when you need him the most?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633728</id>
	<title>Why filter?</title>
	<author>weisepet</author>
	<datestamp>1269604260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a classroom teacher I have run into the filters at my school and have felt frustration as to what I was being filtered from let alone the more restrictive student access.  I have discussed this issue with several of our IT people and there are several good reasons to filter:

1. Inappropriate Material - While many people focus on the porn issues this is not the main reason for filtering in our district; rather it it to help the teachers from having to monitor all the computer activity all the time and to keep the focus on teaching and learning.  While many appropriate sites do get blocked and people claim censorship; if it is an appropriate site it can be put on the white list in under 24 hours for all students to access and teachers can use a bypass code on the student computer for that site until it is.  If districts don't have a system like this in place perhaps they need to look at the quality of IT people that they higher.  From what I have noticed the best and brightest IT people don't always go into a school system. The average school just doesn't pay what industry pays.

2. Bandwidth - Streaming media is taking up more and more of our school's bandwidth.  There are so many great things for student's and teacher to use but adding more high speed bandwidth is not anywhere close in cost to what you pay in your home. Our district has been falling behind in keeping up with the demand for only 3 years and to catch-up it is going to cost $10,000 - $30,000 a dedicated fiber line is not cheap.  (If this price seems high let me know so I can call 'BS' on out tech department and to tell them to stop being lazy)</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a classroom teacher I have run into the filters at my school and have felt frustration as to what I was being filtered from let alone the more restrictive student access .
I have discussed this issue with several of our IT people and there are several good reasons to filter : 1 .
Inappropriate Material - While many people focus on the porn issues this is not the main reason for filtering in our district ; rather it it to help the teachers from having to monitor all the computer activity all the time and to keep the focus on teaching and learning .
While many appropriate sites do get blocked and people claim censorship ; if it is an appropriate site it can be put on the white list in under 24 hours for all students to access and teachers can use a bypass code on the student computer for that site until it is .
If districts do n't have a system like this in place perhaps they need to look at the quality of IT people that they higher .
From what I have noticed the best and brightest IT people do n't always go into a school system .
The average school just does n't pay what industry pays .
2. Bandwidth - Streaming media is taking up more and more of our school 's bandwidth .
There are so many great things for student 's and teacher to use but adding more high speed bandwidth is not anywhere close in cost to what you pay in your home .
Our district has been falling behind in keeping up with the demand for only 3 years and to catch-up it is going to cost $ 10,000 - $ 30,000 a dedicated fiber line is not cheap .
( If this price seems high let me know so I can call 'BS ' on out tech department and to tell them to stop being lazy )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a classroom teacher I have run into the filters at my school and have felt frustration as to what I was being filtered from let alone the more restrictive student access.
I have discussed this issue with several of our IT people and there are several good reasons to filter:

1.
Inappropriate Material - While many people focus on the porn issues this is not the main reason for filtering in our district; rather it it to help the teachers from having to monitor all the computer activity all the time and to keep the focus on teaching and learning.
While many appropriate sites do get blocked and people claim censorship; if it is an appropriate site it can be put on the white list in under 24 hours for all students to access and teachers can use a bypass code on the student computer for that site until it is.
If districts don't have a system like this in place perhaps they need to look at the quality of IT people that they higher.
From what I have noticed the best and brightest IT people don't always go into a school system.
The average school just doesn't pay what industry pays.
2. Bandwidth - Streaming media is taking up more and more of our school's bandwidth.
There are so many great things for student's and teacher to use but adding more high speed bandwidth is not anywhere close in cost to what you pay in your home.
Our district has been falling behind in keeping up with the demand for only 3 years and to catch-up it is going to cost $10,000 - $30,000 a dedicated fiber line is not cheap.
(If this price seems high let me know so I can call 'BS' on out tech department and to tell them to stop being lazy)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632782</id>
	<title>Much can be learned from censorship leaders...</title>
	<author>dragisha</author>
	<datestamp>1269599160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... Chinese! Or Chavez as his timezone is closer and he can adopt his schedule for some webex work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... Chinese ! Or Chavez as his timezone is closer and he can adopt his schedule for some webex work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... Chinese! Or Chavez as his timezone is closer and he can adopt his schedule for some webex work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632600</id>
	<title>Dick Cheney?</title>
	<author>Nemyst</author>
	<datestamp>1269598440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Poor guy. Not only did he serve under Bush, he's also the single most filtered guy on the Internet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Poor guy .
Not only did he serve under Bush , he 's also the single most filtered guy on the Internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Poor guy.
Not only did he serve under Bush, he's also the single most filtered guy on the Internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634174</id>
	<title>I gotcha affluent areas righ 'cheer!</title>
	<author>LowG1974</author>
	<datestamp>1269606960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Students from more affluent areas have... often, more enlightened parents... Poorer students without home access don't have those opportunities.</p></div><p>WTF?!?!?! Poor families are less enlightened, as a rule? So poor equals dumb, and rich equals smart. Huh. Yeah. That totally makes sense. Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton must have been the smartest kids in school!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Students from more affluent areas have... often , more enlightened parents... Poorer students without home access do n't have those opportunities.WTF ? ! ? ! ? !
Poor families are less enlightened , as a rule ?
So poor equals dumb , and rich equals smart .
Huh. Yeah .
That totally makes sense .
Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton must have been the smartest kids in school !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Students from more affluent areas have... often, more enlightened parents... Poorer students without home access don't have those opportunities.WTF?!?!?!
Poor families are less enlightened, as a rule?
So poor equals dumb, and rich equals smart.
Huh. Yeah.
That totally makes sense.
Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton must have been the smartest kids in school!
!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31636750</id>
	<title>Re:an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>RJFerret</author>
	<datestamp>1269624480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ironically I was having dinner with a friend who is a librarian earlier tonight.</p><p>She works at one of the larger libraries around here, which accepts no federal funds and as such does NOT have any filters on any of their systems, nor keeps records of what people check out.  (The federal funds relates to the later, I don't know about the former.)</p><p>Parents are shocked when they learn they have no filters.</p><p>I remember John Gilmore's quote, "The net treats censorship like damage and routes around it."  While China is trying to prove that not true, teenagers otoh, treat filters like challenges and defeat them.</p><p>Either way, if a staff member sees something inappropriate for a public forum (with little kids possibly around), they obviously tell the patron to not show it and the kids completely understand.</p><p>Teens are often far more mature than adults--perhaps especially teens who frequent libraries.</p><p>I know I'm talking about public libraries instead of schools, but schools would be the last place I'd want promoting ignorance or inhibiting access to knowledge--THAT would be something worth suing over imo.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically I was having dinner with a friend who is a librarian earlier tonight.She works at one of the larger libraries around here , which accepts no federal funds and as such does NOT have any filters on any of their systems , nor keeps records of what people check out .
( The federal funds relates to the later , I do n't know about the former .
) Parents are shocked when they learn they have no filters.I remember John Gilmore 's quote , " The net treats censorship like damage and routes around it .
" While China is trying to prove that not true , teenagers otoh , treat filters like challenges and defeat them.Either way , if a staff member sees something inappropriate for a public forum ( with little kids possibly around ) , they obviously tell the patron to not show it and the kids completely understand.Teens are often far more mature than adults--perhaps especially teens who frequent libraries.I know I 'm talking about public libraries instead of schools , but schools would be the last place I 'd want promoting ignorance or inhibiting access to knowledge--THAT would be something worth suing over imo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically I was having dinner with a friend who is a librarian earlier tonight.She works at one of the larger libraries around here, which accepts no federal funds and as such does NOT have any filters on any of their systems, nor keeps records of what people check out.
(The federal funds relates to the later, I don't know about the former.
)Parents are shocked when they learn they have no filters.I remember John Gilmore's quote, "The net treats censorship like damage and routes around it.
"  While China is trying to prove that not true, teenagers otoh, treat filters like challenges and defeat them.Either way, if a staff member sees something inappropriate for a public forum (with little kids possibly around), they obviously tell the patron to not show it and the kids completely understand.Teens are often far more mature than adults--perhaps especially teens who frequent libraries.I know I'm talking about public libraries instead of schools, but schools would be the last place I'd want promoting ignorance or inhibiting access to knowledge--THAT would be something worth suing over imo.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631616</id>
	<title>an excellent argument...</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1269594540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...from someone who doesn't work for a school district, nor will be crucified by the politicians, school board (who are politicians), parents, and news media when little johnny pulls up something "objectionable".</p><p>actually people loose their actual careers over this kinda stuff.... you have to at least *try* to filter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...from someone who does n't work for a school district , nor will be crucified by the politicians , school board ( who are politicians ) , parents , and news media when little johnny pulls up something " objectionable " .actually people loose their actual careers over this kinda stuff.... you have to at least * try * to filter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...from someone who doesn't work for a school district, nor will be crucified by the politicians, school board (who are politicians), parents, and news media when little johnny pulls up something "objectionable".actually people loose their actual careers over this kinda stuff.... you have to at least *try* to filter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</id>
	<title>It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many kids I know nowadays have a phone with web access enabled. Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones? </p><p>Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many kids I know nowadays have a phone with web access enabled .
Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones ?
Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many kids I know nowadays have a phone with web access enabled.
Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones?
Heck when I was in high school I had a teacher use a wireless air card to get onto youtube since the district tech staff were blocking so many websites for no reason whatsoever. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631842</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1269595560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Different analogy: In the US, kids today are not allowed to even taste alcohol until they move out of their parents homes and into college dorms, upon which time most immediately start engaging in binge drinking because they have never learned what their limits are with respect to alcohol. Societies wherein children regularly imbibe wine with their parents during meals have far fewer problems with alcoholism. Want to really education your child? Take him/her out and get them totally puking drunk just once, then videotape them (and don't go easy on them). Show them the video as soon as they sober up. They'll learn how stupid they look after drinking, and they'll probably never touch whatever they got puking drunk on again (our instincts are to stay away from anything that makes us throw up).<br> <br>
With regards to the internet, they will inevitably see inappropriate content at some point; they need to learn how to deal with it without making a big deal out of it. While I could happily have lived my life without ever having seen Goatse guy or tubgirl, at some point students will be turned loose onto the internet with only their self-discipline for control. Better they learn how to control themselves then try to keep them locked in a tower; eventually, they are going to get out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Different analogy : In the US , kids today are not allowed to even taste alcohol until they move out of their parents homes and into college dorms , upon which time most immediately start engaging in binge drinking because they have never learned what their limits are with respect to alcohol .
Societies wherein children regularly imbibe wine with their parents during meals have far fewer problems with alcoholism .
Want to really education your child ?
Take him/her out and get them totally puking drunk just once , then videotape them ( and do n't go easy on them ) .
Show them the video as soon as they sober up .
They 'll learn how stupid they look after drinking , and they 'll probably never touch whatever they got puking drunk on again ( our instincts are to stay away from anything that makes us throw up ) .
With regards to the internet , they will inevitably see inappropriate content at some point ; they need to learn how to deal with it without making a big deal out of it .
While I could happily have lived my life without ever having seen Goatse guy or tubgirl , at some point students will be turned loose onto the internet with only their self-discipline for control .
Better they learn how to control themselves then try to keep them locked in a tower ; eventually , they are going to get out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Different analogy: In the US, kids today are not allowed to even taste alcohol until they move out of their parents homes and into college dorms, upon which time most immediately start engaging in binge drinking because they have never learned what their limits are with respect to alcohol.
Societies wherein children regularly imbibe wine with their parents during meals have far fewer problems with alcoholism.
Want to really education your child?
Take him/her out and get them totally puking drunk just once, then videotape them (and don't go easy on them).
Show them the video as soon as they sober up.
They'll learn how stupid they look after drinking, and they'll probably never touch whatever they got puking drunk on again (our instincts are to stay away from anything that makes us throw up).
With regards to the internet, they will inevitably see inappropriate content at some point; they need to learn how to deal with it without making a big deal out of it.
While I could happily have lived my life without ever having seen Goatse guy or tubgirl, at some point students will be turned loose onto the internet with only their self-discipline for control.
Better they learn how to control themselves then try to keep them locked in a tower; eventually, they are going to get out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31634632</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269609840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh my God! You really want to educate our children? Not in this country! NEVER!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh my God !
You really want to educate our children ?
Not in this country !
NEVER !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh my God!
You really want to educate our children?
Not in this country!
NEVER!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633050</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269600360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having been through K-12 later than you, we did have research time.  Almost every time we had a large project (science fair, English papers beyond what book we were reading in class -- say on Shakespeare rather than "Romeo and Juliet", etc) we generally had computer time, either in the library or the computer lab.  This is because they couldn't expect low-income children to use the internet at home, or the ~57 volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica, located right above the other encyclopedias.
<br> <br>
However, library was open extended hours to accommodate students, and there was also a nearby public library (which also has filtering) which had even longer hours.  I'm not sure why we had class time...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having been through K-12 later than you , we did have research time .
Almost every time we had a large project ( science fair , English papers beyond what book we were reading in class -- say on Shakespeare rather than " Romeo and Juliet " , etc ) we generally had computer time , either in the library or the computer lab .
This is because they could n't expect low-income children to use the internet at home , or the ~ 57 volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica , located right above the other encyclopedias .
However , library was open extended hours to accommodate students , and there was also a nearby public library ( which also has filtering ) which had even longer hours .
I 'm not sure why we had class time.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having been through K-12 later than you, we did have research time.
Almost every time we had a large project (science fair, English papers beyond what book we were reading in class -- say on Shakespeare rather than "Romeo and Juliet", etc) we generally had computer time, either in the library or the computer lab.
This is because they couldn't expect low-income children to use the internet at home, or the ~57 volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica, located right above the other encyclopedias.
However, library was open extended hours to accommodate students, and there was also a nearby public library (which also has filtering) which had even longer hours.
I'm not sure why we had class time...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31638274</id>
	<title>Filters? What filters?</title>
	<author>Eggbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1269691200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is what proxies are for. Set one up on a dynamic IP and they have no way to block it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what proxies are for .
Set one up on a dynamic IP and they have no way to block it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what proxies are for.
Set one up on a dynamic IP and they have no way to block it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632934</id>
	<title>OpenDNS seems like a good solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269599940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found OpenDNS works really well, and has enough setting levels that an appropriate one can be chosen by each school or district.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found OpenDNS works really well , and has enough setting levels that an appropriate one can be chosen by each school or district .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found OpenDNS works really well, and has enough setting levels that an appropriate one can be chosen by each school or district.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633274</id>
	<title>Re:CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1269601560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility"</p><p>I prefer this method as well, but I also know that there is no such thing as "personal responsibility" any longer. Blame Parents, Blame Teachers, Blame the Superintendent Office, Blame Liberals, Blame Right Wing Religious Nuts.</p><p>Sue!</p><p>Doing nothing has its problems as does doing something. And I'm not sure which is actually worse (given the status quo).</p><p>As long as there is a lawyer around, and money to be had, and someone to take offense at something, there is going to be problems. And, if you've been in Educational Technology, you'll know I am completely accurate.</p><p>One of the things CIPA does, is require certain baseline filtering, which lawyers cannot sue the district over. It is set by law, protecting the districts from random lawsuits by people who want to promote their own agenda.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility " I prefer this method as well , but I also know that there is no such thing as " personal responsibility " any longer .
Blame Parents , Blame Teachers , Blame the Superintendent Office , Blame Liberals , Blame Right Wing Religious Nuts.Sue ! Doing nothing has its problems as does doing something .
And I 'm not sure which is actually worse ( given the status quo ) .As long as there is a lawyer around , and money to be had , and someone to take offense at something , there is going to be problems .
And , if you 've been in Educational Technology , you 'll know I am completely accurate.One of the things CIPA does , is require certain baseline filtering , which lawyers can not sue the district over .
It is set by law , protecting the districts from random lawsuits by people who want to promote their own agenda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility"I prefer this method as well, but I also know that there is no such thing as "personal responsibility" any longer.
Blame Parents, Blame Teachers, Blame the Superintendent Office, Blame Liberals, Blame Right Wing Religious Nuts.Sue!Doing nothing has its problems as does doing something.
And I'm not sure which is actually worse (given the status quo).As long as there is a lawyer around, and money to be had, and someone to take offense at something, there is going to be problems.
And, if you've been in Educational Technology, you'll know I am completely accurate.One of the things CIPA does, is require certain baseline filtering, which lawyers cannot sue the district over.
It is set by law, protecting the districts from random lawsuits by people who want to promote their own agenda.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31654874</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>rdnetto</author>
	<datestamp>1269861300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's common to be given class time to work on assignments, which often involve research. I was fortunate that my school had a fairly reasonable policy (i.e. no porn or social media) but some of the schools out there have incredibly restrictive ones which do block research. The worst I've heard of blocked anything with the word death, which caused problems when they were studying the Bubonic Plague.<br>I reckon a reasonable content filter could be justified, but whether or not they go overboard seems to be entirely dependent on the administration, which is problematic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's common to be given class time to work on assignments , which often involve research .
I was fortunate that my school had a fairly reasonable policy ( i.e .
no porn or social media ) but some of the schools out there have incredibly restrictive ones which do block research .
The worst I 've heard of blocked anything with the word death , which caused problems when they were studying the Bubonic Plague.I reckon a reasonable content filter could be justified , but whether or not they go overboard seems to be entirely dependent on the administration , which is problematic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's common to be given class time to work on assignments, which often involve research.
I was fortunate that my school had a fairly reasonable policy (i.e.
no porn or social media) but some of the schools out there have incredibly restrictive ones which do block research.
The worst I've heard of blocked anything with the word death, which caused problems when they were studying the Bubonic Plague.I reckon a reasonable content filter could be justified, but whether or not they go overboard seems to be entirely dependent on the administration, which is problematic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633072</id>
	<title>Why? Bandwidth!</title>
	<author>munrom</author>
	<datestamp>1269600420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones?</p></div><p>As a sysadmin at a Aus School, I block any non educational sites that appears in the top 50 bandwidth usage for the month. Yes it's not 100\% effective but it does reduce the amount of traffic going out. Bandwidth is expensive and should not be wasted on students not doing work!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones ? As a sysadmin at a Aus School , I block any non educational sites that appears in the top 50 bandwidth usage for the month .
Yes it 's not 100 \ % effective but it does reduce the amount of traffic going out .
Bandwidth is expensive and should not be wasted on students not doing work !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why bother trying to block facebook when they can just simply browse over their cell phones?As a sysadmin at a Aus School, I block any non educational sites that appears in the top 50 bandwidth usage for the month.
Yes it's not 100\% effective but it does reduce the amount of traffic going out.
Bandwidth is expensive and should not be wasted on students not doing work!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633794</id>
	<title>Re:So what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269604740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631622</id>
	<title>So much slips past the filters...</title>
	<author>TheMiddleRoad</author>
	<datestamp>1269594540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do a search for "yiff" or "yiffing" on a filtered computer or search engine.  It'll glide ride past to some pretty amazing stuff.  Also try going to rangarig.net on a filtered computer.  You'll be stunned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do a search for " yiff " or " yiffing " on a filtered computer or search engine .
It 'll glide ride past to some pretty amazing stuff .
Also try going to rangarig.net on a filtered computer .
You 'll be stunned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do a search for "yiff" or "yiffing" on a filtered computer or search engine.
It'll glide ride past to some pretty amazing stuff.
Also try going to rangarig.net on a filtered computer.
You'll be stunned.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632404</id>
	<title>Re:Webfilters, a great motivator!</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269597720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because you and a couple other people who are above the mildly retarded rating figured out how easy it was to get around a few filters doesn't mean the majority of the students will.</p><p>Heres a better idea, how about teaching your kid that occasionally he/she has to follow the fucking rules, like it or not rather than going along and letting them think they should get their way all the freaking time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because you and a couple other people who are above the mildly retarded rating figured out how easy it was to get around a few filters does n't mean the majority of the students will.Heres a better idea , how about teaching your kid that occasionally he/she has to follow the fucking rules , like it or not rather than going along and letting them think they should get their way all the freaking time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because you and a couple other people who are above the mildly retarded rating figured out how easy it was to get around a few filters doesn't mean the majority of the students will.Heres a better idea, how about teaching your kid that occasionally he/she has to follow the fucking rules, like it or not rather than going along and letting them think they should get their way all the freaking time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31639636</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Chelloveck</author>
	<datestamp>1269706620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>use a wireless air card</p></div></blockquote><p>Thanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some muds</p></div></blockquote><p>Dear lord. I remember Winsock-Trumpet, Gopher, and PINE. Porn wasn't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text. And YOU feel old...</p></div></blockquote><p>Bah. Kids. When <i>I</i> was in high school, our one computer lab loaded the machines from cassette tape. The front office rented time on a mainframe and accessed it via an actual impact-printing teletype machine. And the only way to get porn was to draw boobies on pictures in the yearbook.</p><p>Now <i>get off my lawn!</i> </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some mudsDear lord .
I remember Winsock-Trumpet , Gopher , and PINE .
Porn was n't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text .
And YOU feel old...Bah .
Kids. When I was in high school , our one computer lab loaded the machines from cassette tape .
The front office rented time on a mainframe and accessed it via an actual impact-printing teletype machine .
And the only way to get porn was to draw boobies on pictures in the yearbook.Now get off my lawn !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use a wireless air cardThanks... that made me feel old.. i remember high school and the filters - i also remember setting up my own proxies so i could log into some mudsDear lord.
I remember Winsock-Trumpet, Gopher, and PINE.
Porn wasn't much of an issue as the internet was nearly entirely text.
And YOU feel old...Bah.
Kids. When I was in high school, our one computer lab loaded the machines from cassette tape.
The front office rented time on a mainframe and accessed it via an actual impact-printing teletype machine.
And the only way to get porn was to draw boobies on pictures in the yearbook.Now get off my lawn! 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632318</id>
	<title>Ugh...  Can't kids surf porn at home with their pa</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269597360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about just leaving the libraries and schools for learning reading, writing and arithmetic and letting the parents determine how their kids are raised socially?<br>LEAVE THE FILTERING IN PLACE!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about just leaving the libraries and schools for learning reading , writing and arithmetic and letting the parents determine how their kids are raised socially ? LEAVE THE FILTERING IN PLACE ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about just leaving the libraries and schools for learning reading, writing and arithmetic and letting the parents determine how their kids are raised socially?LEAVE THE FILTERING IN PLACE!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31638540</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>jayman5070</author>
	<datestamp>1269694740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if someone has already hit on this.

I am the tech manager for a public school and it is a requirement for us to filter Internet access or we lose some federal funding.  Having said that, I agree with rotide, be reasonable, have a good AUP, enforce the AUP, be reasonable.

I'm not heavy handed with the filtering, when I first installed the filter I used broad, generic terms and then opened things up as teachers made requests.  Sure, students can get around it with proxies but if they get caught, they get a detention up to a suspension.


And we keep a detailed log so when miss perfect's perfect mother does come in and accuse the school doing wrong we can (and we did) prove that the student was accessing the porn somewhere else.  That was a good day.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read all the responses so I apologize if someone has already hit on this .
I am the tech manager for a public school and it is a requirement for us to filter Internet access or we lose some federal funding .
Having said that , I agree with rotide , be reasonable , have a good AUP , enforce the AUP , be reasonable .
I 'm not heavy handed with the filtering , when I first installed the filter I used broad , generic terms and then opened things up as teachers made requests .
Sure , students can get around it with proxies but if they get caught , they get a detention up to a suspension .
And we keep a detailed log so when miss perfect 's perfect mother does come in and accuse the school doing wrong we can ( and we did ) prove that the student was accessing the porn somewhere else .
That was a good day .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if someone has already hit on this.
I am the tech manager for a public school and it is a requirement for us to filter Internet access or we lose some federal funding.
Having said that, I agree with rotide, be reasonable, have a good AUP, enforce the AUP, be reasonable.
I'm not heavy handed with the filtering, when I first installed the filter I used broad, generic terms and then opened things up as teachers made requests.
Sure, students can get around it with proxies but if they get caught, they get a detention up to a suspension.
And we keep a detailed log so when miss perfect's perfect mother does come in and accuse the school doing wrong we can (and we did) prove that the student was accessing the porn somewhere else.
That was a good day.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632658</id>
	<title>Re:No answer will be perfect</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269598620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>1) Make a sensible AUP for school computers. No Porn, etc.</p></div></blockquote><p>Uhm, already done<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... everywhere<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and it pretty much limits access to school computers to school related purposes.</p><blockquote><div><p>2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP. (No cops, no expulsions. Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.)</p></div></blockquote><p>And since parents don't actually punish their kids anymore<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what do you do when no 'sensible' punishment works?</p><blockquote><div><p>3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student.</p></div></blockquote><p>No this is retarded, no student needs to get everywhere.  The computers at school are there to facilitate progress in school.  Not for you to checkout slashdot or the latest news from Valve.  Its not your computer, its not your network, its not playtime for little Billy while mommy and daddy go to work.  Its school for learning, and contrary to popular belief, just dicking around on the Internet really doesn't result in a whole lot of learning for 99.999999\% of the population.  Geeks are unique in that respect, what applies to geeks doesn't apply to 99.9999999999999999999\% of the school students of any age.</p><blockquote><div><p>4) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.</p></div></blockquote><p>And tomorrow you'll be in here ranting about privacy of the students and how its wrong that they get logged and how it can be used for bad things blah blah blah</p><blockquote><div><p>5) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters, or under direct supervision (read: someone watching over your shoulder) in addition to normal punishment.</p></div></blockquote><p>WTF, stop being such a fucking pussy.  They break the rules, their done.  You know why they keep breaking the rules?  You keep letting them.  They break them, you say 'no!' and thats the end of it, so they have no real reason to not do anything.  You're trying to treat school students as responsible mature adults when in reality you can't treat most adults that way, the idea of trying to do it on children is just retarded and I'd be willing to bet comes from someone with no children, probably just fresh out of school.</p><blockquote><div><p>Don't coddle. Don't expell. Don't freak out. Just teach the kids what is and isn't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.</p></div></blockquote><p>They aren't going to learn from you because even when you sit down to write a post on slashdot you get confused in your own post about punishing them or not.  You can't expect them to learn what to do when you haven't even figured it out yet.</p><blockquote><div><p>But in my opinion. School is there to learn, not stifle. Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes, school is there to learn, but most of the learning isn't about what you can read in a book its about growing up and learning to be a responsible productive member of society.  You're going to forget the other 95\% of what you learn at the party after graduation.  You need to come about with the ability to solve problems where you DON'T know the answer and you need to be able to function in the real world.  Knowing when Columbus discovered America is irrelevant to everyone except about 8 archeologist who would have learned that even if they never heard of him in grade school.</p><p>If you think the point of school is to come out with a bunch of information stored in your brain that you've memorized from books than you have gotten the raw end of the deal in your education and I'm afraid you've utterly missed the point of it, I'm sorry for you.</p><blockquote><div><p>Sadly, probably won't happen because little miss perfect's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer.</p></div></blockquote><p>Which wouldn't have been an issue if you weren't so busy trying to please the students and instead acted like a responsible adult and kept them focused on the task at hand rather than letting them wonder randomly around the Internet as they see fit and then giving them a slap on the wrist when they do what they aren't supposed to do<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... like every child since the beginning of time has done to test the bounds it can get by with.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Make a sensible AUP for school computers .
No Porn , etc.Uhm , already done ... everywhere ... and it pretty much limits access to school computers to school related purposes.2 ) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP .
( No cops , no expulsions .
Detention sure , suspension/parental notification , if you have to .
) And since parents do n't actually punish their kids anymore ... what do you do when no 'sensible ' punishment works ? 3 ) Leave the net \ _wide open \ _ for each student.No this is retarded , no student needs to get everywhere .
The computers at school are there to facilitate progress in school .
Not for you to checkout slashdot or the latest news from Valve .
Its not your computer , its not your network , its not playtime for little Billy while mommy and daddy go to work .
Its school for learning , and contrary to popular belief , just dicking around on the Internet really does n't result in a whole lot of learning for 99.999999 \ % of the population .
Geeks are unique in that respect , what applies to geeks does n't apply to 99.9999999999999999999 \ % of the school students of any age.4 ) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.And tomorrow you 'll be in here ranting about privacy of the students and how its wrong that they get logged and how it can be used for bad things blah blah blah5 ) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters , or under direct supervision ( read : someone watching over your shoulder ) in addition to normal punishment.WTF , stop being such a fucking pussy .
They break the rules , their done .
You know why they keep breaking the rules ?
You keep letting them .
They break them , you say 'no !
' and thats the end of it , so they have no real reason to not do anything .
You 're trying to treat school students as responsible mature adults when in reality you ca n't treat most adults that way , the idea of trying to do it on children is just retarded and I 'd be willing to bet comes from someone with no children , probably just fresh out of school.Do n't coddle .
Do n't expell .
Do n't freak out .
Just teach the kids what is and is n't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.They are n't going to learn from you because even when you sit down to write a post on slashdot you get confused in your own post about punishing them or not .
You ca n't expect them to learn what to do when you have n't even figured it out yet.But in my opinion .
School is there to learn , not stifle .
Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.Yes , school is there to learn , but most of the learning is n't about what you can read in a book its about growing up and learning to be a responsible productive member of society .
You 're going to forget the other 95 \ % of what you learn at the party after graduation .
You need to come about with the ability to solve problems where you DO N'T know the answer and you need to be able to function in the real world .
Knowing when Columbus discovered America is irrelevant to everyone except about 8 archeologist who would have learned that even if they never heard of him in grade school.If you think the point of school is to come out with a bunch of information stored in your brain that you 've memorized from books than you have gotten the raw end of the deal in your education and I 'm afraid you 've utterly missed the point of it , I 'm sorry for you.Sadly , probably wo n't happen because little miss perfect 's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer.Which would n't have been an issue if you were n't so busy trying to please the students and instead acted like a responsible adult and kept them focused on the task at hand rather than letting them wonder randomly around the Internet as they see fit and then giving them a slap on the wrist when they do what they are n't supposed to do ... like every child since the beginning of time has done to test the bounds it can get by with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Make a sensible AUP for school computers.
No Porn, etc.Uhm, already done ... everywhere ... and it pretty much limits access to school computers to school related purposes.2) Have sensible punishments for breaking the AUP.
(No cops, no expulsions.
Detention sure, suspension/parental notification, if you have to.
)And since parents don't actually punish their kids anymore ... what do you do when no 'sensible' punishment works?3) Leave the net \_wide open\_ for each student.No this is retarded, no student needs to get everywhere.
The computers at school are there to facilitate progress in school.
Not for you to checkout slashdot or the latest news from Valve.
Its not your computer, its not your network, its not playtime for little Billy while mommy and daddy go to work.
Its school for learning, and contrary to popular belief, just dicking around on the Internet really doesn't result in a whole lot of learning for 99.999999\% of the population.
Geeks are unique in that respect, what applies to geeks doesn't apply to 99.9999999999999999999\% of the school students of any age.4) Log all activity so that in the event it is suspected a student broke the AUP you can verify the infringement took place and apply a sensible punishment.And tomorrow you'll be in here ranting about privacy of the students and how its wrong that they get logged and how it can be used for bad things blah blah blah5) Break the AUP too many times and you can only use school computers under strict filters, or under direct supervision (read: someone watching over your shoulder) in addition to normal punishment.WTF, stop being such a fucking pussy.
They break the rules, their done.
You know why they keep breaking the rules?
You keep letting them.
They break them, you say 'no!
' and thats the end of it, so they have no real reason to not do anything.
You're trying to treat school students as responsible mature adults when in reality you can't treat most adults that way, the idea of trying to do it on children is just retarded and I'd be willing to bet comes from someone with no children, probably just fresh out of school.Don't coddle.
Don't expell.
Don't freak out.
Just teach the kids what is and isn't acceptable and let them learn how to deal with rules and sensible punishments.They aren't going to learn from you because even when you sit down to write a post on slashdot you get confused in your own post about punishing them or not.
You can't expect them to learn what to do when you haven't even figured it out yet.But in my opinion.
School is there to learn, not stifle.
Teach and use the full brunt of the tools we have to do it.Yes, school is there to learn, but most of the learning isn't about what you can read in a book its about growing up and learning to be a responsible productive member of society.
You're going to forget the other 95\% of what you learn at the party after graduation.
You need to come about with the ability to solve problems where you DON'T know the answer and you need to be able to function in the real world.
Knowing when Columbus discovered America is irrelevant to everyone except about 8 archeologist who would have learned that even if they never heard of him in grade school.If you think the point of school is to come out with a bunch of information stored in your brain that you've memorized from books than you have gotten the raw end of the deal in your education and I'm afraid you've utterly missed the point of it, I'm sorry for you.Sadly, probably won't happen because little miss perfect's perfect mother will sue the school because her daughter heard that another student might have seen a naked picture on a school computer.Which wouldn't have been an issue if you weren't so busy trying to please the students and instead acted like a responsible adult and kept them focused on the task at hand rather than letting them wonder randomly around the Internet as they see fit and then giving them a slap on the wrist when they do what they aren't supposed to do ... like every child since the beginning of time has done to test the bounds it can get by with.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631594</id>
	<title>My local swimming pool...</title>
	<author>Angostura</author>
	<datestamp>1269594480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't let children under 8 enter the pool without an adult accompanying them. and staying close by. Seems a fair enough analogy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't let children under 8 enter the pool without an adult accompanying them .
and staying close by .
Seems a fair enough analogy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't let children under 8 enter the pool without an adult accompanying them.
and staying close by.
Seems a fair enough analogy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631898</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Simulant</author>
	<datestamp>1269595800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"The analogy is that the internet is like a pool. It can be dangerous for your children, so you should either keep them out of it, or teach them how to survive inside it."</p></div><p>  Sorry,  I'm still not getting the analogy.   Is he trying to say that it's just a matter of telling our children,  "No, you shouldn't go to pr0ntube.com during class."?    Even if that works for most, it wouldn't for a some, and school internet censorship is as much about preventing classroom disruption as it is about "protecting the children".
</p><p>
   Not that I'm for censorship... but I can't fault anyone for trying to block gonzo porn on school networks.
It seems to me that allowing teachers to temporarily bypass the filters as needed is the best compromise.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The analogy is that the internet is like a pool .
It can be dangerous for your children , so you should either keep them out of it , or teach them how to survive inside it .
" Sorry , I 'm still not getting the analogy .
Is he trying to say that it 's just a matter of telling our children , " No , you should n't go to pr0ntube.com during class. " ?
Even if that works for most , it would n't for a some , and school internet censorship is as much about preventing classroom disruption as it is about " protecting the children " .
Not that I 'm for censorship... but I ca n't fault anyone for trying to block gonzo porn on school networks .
It seems to me that allowing teachers to temporarily bypass the filters as needed is the best compromise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The analogy is that the internet is like a pool.
It can be dangerous for your children, so you should either keep them out of it, or teach them how to survive inside it.
"  Sorry,  I'm still not getting the analogy.
Is he trying to say that it's just a matter of telling our children,  "No, you shouldn't go to pr0ntube.com during class."?
Even if that works for most, it wouldn't for a some, and school internet censorship is as much about preventing classroom disruption as it is about "protecting the children".
Not that I'm for censorship... but I can't fault anyone for trying to block gonzo porn on school networks.
It seems to me that allowing teachers to temporarily bypass the filters as needed is the best compromise.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31645842</id>
	<title>Re:I disagree with your premise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269809460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Basically, the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers.</p></div><p>Sounds good. From this point on all women must cover their nakedness- anything visible beyond the eyes or hands is obscene and must be blocked from viewing by the students. the same is true of any clothing that clings or shows any shape of the female body.</p><p>Oh, you meant under the definition that <i>your</i> church uses. How convenient.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically , the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers.Sounds good .
From this point on all women must cover their nakedness- anything visible beyond the eyes or hands is obscene and must be blocked from viewing by the students .
the same is true of any clothing that clings or shows any shape of the female body.Oh , you meant under the definition that your church uses .
How convenient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Basically, the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers.Sounds good.
From this point on all women must cover their nakedness- anything visible beyond the eyes or hands is obscene and must be blocked from viewing by the students.
the same is true of any clothing that clings or shows any shape of the female body.Oh, you meant under the definition that your church uses.
How convenient.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632500</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269598080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks... that made me feel old.. I remember high school and internet nowhere to be found.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks... that made me feel old.. I remember high school and internet nowhere to be found .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks... that made me feel old.. I remember high school and internet nowhere to be found.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632514</id>
	<title>Liabilities</title>
	<author>drumcat</author>
	<datestamp>1269598140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let's be honest.  Filtering is about not getting sued.  Kids go home and see way worse.  Then they come back to school with that URL, and they would leave it on a screen for all to see.  I know; I did it.  Stupid, 8-bit gifs of boobies, because I could.  If the wrong person sees that, someone gets in trouble.  If a parent hears though that whitehouse.com is available without a reasonable measure of protection, all holy hell fire and brimstone is comin' down on your terrorist school for those boobies.

But don't forget; you can't unsee goatse.  You sure you want a 9 year old going there?  I'm all for freedoms, but let's just be a little careful.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's be honest .
Filtering is about not getting sued .
Kids go home and see way worse .
Then they come back to school with that URL , and they would leave it on a screen for all to see .
I know ; I did it .
Stupid , 8-bit gifs of boobies , because I could .
If the wrong person sees that , someone gets in trouble .
If a parent hears though that whitehouse.com is available without a reasonable measure of protection , all holy hell fire and brimstone is comin ' down on your terrorist school for those boobies .
But do n't forget ; you ca n't unsee goatse .
You sure you want a 9 year old going there ?
I 'm all for freedoms , but let 's just be a little careful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's be honest.
Filtering is about not getting sued.
Kids go home and see way worse.
Then they come back to school with that URL, and they would leave it on a screen for all to see.
I know; I did it.
Stupid, 8-bit gifs of boobies, because I could.
If the wrong person sees that, someone gets in trouble.
If a parent hears though that whitehouse.com is available without a reasonable measure of protection, all holy hell fire and brimstone is comin' down on your terrorist school for those boobies.
But don't forget; you can't unsee goatse.
You sure you want a 9 year old going there?
I'm all for freedoms, but let's just be a little careful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632006</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>AldoRaine</author>
	<datestamp>1269596100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the school district was found to be allowing students to access Youtube videos that were "obscene" or "harmful to minors", they could be out a ton of money.   They filter for CIPA compliance, and they realize it won't stop every proxy students have in their arsenal.  It covers their ass and saves them money - that's the only reason.  Content filtering can get pretty expensive, and without CIPA I imagine more districts might adopt unrestricted access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the school district was found to be allowing students to access Youtube videos that were " obscene " or " harmful to minors " , they could be out a ton of money .
They filter for CIPA compliance , and they realize it wo n't stop every proxy students have in their arsenal .
It covers their ass and saves them money - that 's the only reason .
Content filtering can get pretty expensive , and without CIPA I imagine more districts might adopt unrestricted access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the school district was found to be allowing students to access Youtube videos that were "obscene" or "harmful to minors", they could be out a ton of money.
They filter for CIPA compliance, and they realize it won't stop every proxy students have in their arsenal.
It covers their ass and saves them money - that's the only reason.
Content filtering can get pretty expensive, and without CIPA I imagine more districts might adopt unrestricted access.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632332</id>
	<title>How appropriate...</title>
	<author>vonsneerderhooten</author>
	<datestamp>1269597420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That I just finished reading <a href="http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Bessy-Keeps-You-Safe.aspx" title="thedailywtf.com" rel="nofollow">this</a> [thedailywtf.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>That I just finished reading this [ thedailywtf.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That I just finished reading this [thedailywtf.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632700</id>
	<title>Dear morons, not everything is censorship.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269598860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stop fucking calling it that.</p><p>There is a time and place for everything, and random browsing of whatever you want is not something that you do at school.</p><p>If you think keeping students focused on school work and not dicking off reading slashdot, digg, or screwing with facebook is censorship then you are, in fact, a freaking moron.</p><p>Stop calling everything censorship just because you don't get your way.</p><p>There was a time when saying something was censored meant something, now it just means some douche bag on the Internet could spout his mouth off or do whatever he/she wanted to someone else.</p><p>When you run into someones house and call them a cock sucking faggot and then you get your ass beat by him and his boyfriend, you didn't get censored, you get your ass beat for being a fucking moron, and thats exactly what this is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop fucking calling it that.There is a time and place for everything , and random browsing of whatever you want is not something that you do at school.If you think keeping students focused on school work and not dicking off reading slashdot , digg , or screwing with facebook is censorship then you are , in fact , a freaking moron.Stop calling everything censorship just because you do n't get your way.There was a time when saying something was censored meant something , now it just means some douche bag on the Internet could spout his mouth off or do whatever he/she wanted to someone else.When you run into someones house and call them a cock sucking faggot and then you get your ass beat by him and his boyfriend , you did n't get censored , you get your ass beat for being a fucking moron , and thats exactly what this is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop fucking calling it that.There is a time and place for everything, and random browsing of whatever you want is not something that you do at school.If you think keeping students focused on school work and not dicking off reading slashdot, digg, or screwing with facebook is censorship then you are, in fact, a freaking moron.Stop calling everything censorship just because you don't get your way.There was a time when saying something was censored meant something, now it just means some douche bag on the Internet could spout his mouth off or do whatever he/she wanted to someone else.When you run into someones house and call them a cock sucking faggot and then you get your ass beat by him and his boyfriend, you didn't get censored, you get your ass beat for being a fucking moron, and thats exactly what this is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31636080</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1269618900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where's BadAnalogyGuy? I hear he's an expert in such matters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where 's BadAnalogyGuy ?
I hear he 's an expert in such matters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where's BadAnalogyGuy?
I hear he's an expert in such matters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631636</id>
	<title>I disagree with your premise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree with your premise.</p><p>Schools definitely need highly restrictive filters since any inappropriate content displayed on school computers is unacceptable. Basically, the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree with your premise.Schools definitely need highly restrictive filters since any inappropriate content displayed on school computers is unacceptable .
Basically , the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree with your premise.Schools definitely need highly restrictive filters since any inappropriate content displayed on school computers is unacceptable.
Basically, the filter set needs to satisfy the most restrictive church going mothers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Alaren</author>
	<datestamp>1269594600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The analogy is that the internet is like a pool.  It can be dangerous for your children, so you should either keep them out of it, or teach them how to survive inside it.

</p><p>While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor, I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools.

</p><p>I use the internet for research all the time--where there are gaps in my knowledge of home maintenance or repair, for example, or if I am just curious about the etymology of a word.  In law school I used the internet for legal research.  The internet is a fabulous tool for research.

</p><p>However, I don't remember doing any research in school, ever.  Class time was instruction time.  Research, when it was necessary at all, was done at the library or at home.  Learning research skills is something that can be done without a computer.  Those skills can then be generalized to the computer.

</p><p>While I think students should be learning something about computers, and computer research, at school, I doubt that filters actually hamper those lessons much.  Filters undoubtedly do hamper the ability to get results, but that is not the point of doing research in a K-12 environment.  So while I am not a fan of filters, I doubt that they pose nearly the problem that certain people think they pose.  Rather, they provide a good opportunity to shout "censorship" which is a great way to draw attention to oneself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The analogy is that the internet is like a pool .
It can be dangerous for your children , so you should either keep them out of it , or teach them how to survive inside it .
While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor , I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools .
I use the internet for research all the time--where there are gaps in my knowledge of home maintenance or repair , for example , or if I am just curious about the etymology of a word .
In law school I used the internet for legal research .
The internet is a fabulous tool for research .
However , I do n't remember doing any research in school , ever .
Class time was instruction time .
Research , when it was necessary at all , was done at the library or at home .
Learning research skills is something that can be done without a computer .
Those skills can then be generalized to the computer .
While I think students should be learning something about computers , and computer research , at school , I doubt that filters actually hamper those lessons much .
Filters undoubtedly do hamper the ability to get results , but that is not the point of doing research in a K-12 environment .
So while I am not a fan of filters , I doubt that they pose nearly the problem that certain people think they pose .
Rather , they provide a good opportunity to shout " censorship " which is a great way to draw attention to oneself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The analogy is that the internet is like a pool.
It can be dangerous for your children, so you should either keep them out of it, or teach them how to survive inside it.
While I am in general agreement with the lock your pool/teach the kids to swim metaphor, I have to wonder if it distracts us from more important questions regarding internet usage in schools.
I use the internet for research all the time--where there are gaps in my knowledge of home maintenance or repair, for example, or if I am just curious about the etymology of a word.
In law school I used the internet for legal research.
The internet is a fabulous tool for research.
However, I don't remember doing any research in school, ever.
Class time was instruction time.
Research, when it was necessary at all, was done at the library or at home.
Learning research skills is something that can be done without a computer.
Those skills can then be generalized to the computer.
While I think students should be learning something about computers, and computer research, at school, I doubt that filters actually hamper those lessons much.
Filters undoubtedly do hamper the ability to get results, but that is not the point of doing research in a K-12 environment.
So while I am not a fan of filters, I doubt that they pose nearly the problem that certain people think they pose.
Rather, they provide a good opportunity to shout "censorship" which is a great way to draw attention to oneself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632604</id>
	<title>Keeps me from doing my job</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269598440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So I actually work in a school as an Americorps VISTA. My job is to help expand our after-school programs and find grants and opportunities for our kids. The webfilter at my work is maniacal and idiotic.</p><p>It blocked me from researching gang prevention programs simply because it had the word "Gang" in it. For ages, it kept me from accessing google docs, for so called "productivity reasons" I can only assume that the webfilter was designed to keep those using it from actually being productive. I can get access to blocked websites, but I have to wait weeks as our Central IT office processes my HAND WRITTEN PAPER REQUEST FORM to gain access.</p><p>It keeps our teachers from accessing YouTube, which would otherwise allow them to show footage from documentaries and videos relating to politics, nature, science and anything else useful.</p><p>The children at our school (preK-8) only use the computers in our computer lab, where they are under constant surveillance, so why bother with the webfilter? They can be easily controlled and monitored by the teachers themselves, and so the filter only keeps people like me from being able to do their job at the office.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So I actually work in a school as an Americorps VISTA .
My job is to help expand our after-school programs and find grants and opportunities for our kids .
The webfilter at my work is maniacal and idiotic.It blocked me from researching gang prevention programs simply because it had the word " Gang " in it .
For ages , it kept me from accessing google docs , for so called " productivity reasons " I can only assume that the webfilter was designed to keep those using it from actually being productive .
I can get access to blocked websites , but I have to wait weeks as our Central IT office processes my HAND WRITTEN PAPER REQUEST FORM to gain access.It keeps our teachers from accessing YouTube , which would otherwise allow them to show footage from documentaries and videos relating to politics , nature , science and anything else useful.The children at our school ( preK-8 ) only use the computers in our computer lab , where they are under constant surveillance , so why bother with the webfilter ?
They can be easily controlled and monitored by the teachers themselves , and so the filter only keeps people like me from being able to do their job at the office .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I actually work in a school as an Americorps VISTA.
My job is to help expand our after-school programs and find grants and opportunities for our kids.
The webfilter at my work is maniacal and idiotic.It blocked me from researching gang prevention programs simply because it had the word "Gang" in it.
For ages, it kept me from accessing google docs, for so called "productivity reasons" I can only assume that the webfilter was designed to keep those using it from actually being productive.
I can get access to blocked websites, but I have to wait weeks as our Central IT office processes my HAND WRITTEN PAPER REQUEST FORM to gain access.It keeps our teachers from accessing YouTube, which would otherwise allow them to show footage from documentaries and videos relating to politics, nature, science and anything else useful.The children at our school (preK-8) only use the computers in our computer lab, where they are under constant surveillance, so why bother with the webfilter?
They can be easily controlled and monitored by the teachers themselves, and so the filter only keeps people like me from being able to do their job at the office.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631952</id>
	<title>So...  go around them?</title>
	<author>digitalsolo</author>
	<datestamp>1269595920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm, I just learned to be sneaky enough to get admin access to the network at school, and relevant passwords to bypass the filters.  Perhaps they're really just teaching the students how to be sneaky?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , I just learned to be sneaky enough to get admin access to the network at school , and relevant passwords to bypass the filters .
Perhaps they 're really just teaching the students how to be sneaky ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, I just learned to be sneaky enough to get admin access to the network at school, and relevant passwords to bypass the filters.
Perhaps they're really just teaching the students how to be sneaky?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633370</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269602100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK so you keep the little assholes from looking at 2 girls, 1 cup in school, but as they've been hearing about it everywhere, they just look at it at home. Their parents are in the living room talking about how the Rev Bubba tol dem dat de world is flat an dat Adam and Eve were real people.  Besides who cares what the kids are doing anyway.</p><p>Alcohol? Never? At home? Huh?<br>I was born in 1942 and we used to drink "Sneaky Pete" while "Playing Hooky", why does anybody think this is new?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK so you keep the little assholes from looking at 2 girls , 1 cup in school , but as they 've been hearing about it everywhere , they just look at it at home .
Their parents are in the living room talking about how the Rev Bubba tol dem dat de world is flat an dat Adam and Eve were real people .
Besides who cares what the kids are doing anyway.Alcohol ?
Never ? At home ?
Huh ? I was born in 1942 and we used to drink " Sneaky Pete " while " Playing Hooky " , why does anybody think this is new ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK so you keep the little assholes from looking at 2 girls, 1 cup in school, but as they've been hearing about it everywhere, they just look at it at home.
Their parents are in the living room talking about how the Rev Bubba tol dem dat de world is flat an dat Adam and Eve were real people.
Besides who cares what the kids are doing anyway.Alcohol?
Never? At home?
Huh?I was born in 1942 and we used to drink "Sneaky Pete" while "Playing Hooky", why does anybody think this is new?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633988</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269605700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Won't somebody think of the lock makers!</p></div><p>TURK AR JABS!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wo n't somebody think of the lock makers ! TURK AR JABS !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Won't somebody think of the lock makers!TURK AR JABS!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632438</id>
	<title>Um, actually...</title>
	<author>rickb928</author>
	<datestamp>1269597840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Swimming pools can be dangerous for children. To protect them, one can install locks<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... [or] teach them to swim."</p><p>If you fill one swimming pool with chlorinated water, and another with beer, which one will the kids want to be around?  And what will they do when they get there?</p><p>On the other hand, you need lifeguards at both, until the kids are sufficiently mature to not drown so easily.  Which will happen much later at the beer pool.  You'll need a curfew and age limits.</p><p>So much for analogy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Swimming pools can be dangerous for children .
To protect them , one can install locks ... [ or ] teach them to swim .
" If you fill one swimming pool with chlorinated water , and another with beer , which one will the kids want to be around ?
And what will they do when they get there ? On the other hand , you need lifeguards at both , until the kids are sufficiently mature to not drown so easily .
Which will happen much later at the beer pool .
You 'll need a curfew and age limits.So much for analogy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Swimming pools can be dangerous for children.
To protect them, one can install locks ... [or] teach them to swim.
"If you fill one swimming pool with chlorinated water, and another with beer, which one will the kids want to be around?
And what will they do when they get there?On the other hand, you need lifeguards at both, until the kids are sufficiently mature to not drown so easily.
Which will happen much later at the beer pool.
You'll need a curfew and age limits.So much for analogy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31635848</id>
	<title>Re:bad analogy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269617220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a student, I would disagree; I recall doing a large amount of research at school. Additionally, several extracurriculars which rely on research use school computers, and people are frustrated by the filter when attempting to do legitimate research. People are not as concerned about the censorship, but rather the impediment of useful work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a student , I would disagree ; I recall doing a large amount of research at school .
Additionally , several extracurriculars which rely on research use school computers , and people are frustrated by the filter when attempting to do legitimate research .
People are not as concerned about the censorship , but rather the impediment of useful work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a student, I would disagree; I recall doing a large amount of research at school.
Additionally, several extracurriculars which rely on research use school computers, and people are frustrated by the filter when attempting to do legitimate research.
People are not as concerned about the censorship, but rather the impediment of useful work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632218</id>
	<title>From Second Hand Experience...</title>
	<author>gers0667</author>
	<datestamp>1269596880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife is an Art teacher and runs in to this problem all of the time.  She tries to show her students famous works of art, the easiest way being through Google Image Search.  Of course, this doesn't work, since you could possibly get something bad.  For now, she uses Bing's image search, but it's only a matter of time before this is killed, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife is an Art teacher and runs in to this problem all of the time .
She tries to show her students famous works of art , the easiest way being through Google Image Search .
Of course , this does n't work , since you could possibly get something bad .
For now , she uses Bing 's image search , but it 's only a matter of time before this is killed , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife is an Art teacher and runs in to this problem all of the time.
She tries to show her students famous works of art, the easiest way being through Google Image Search.
Of course, this doesn't work, since you could possibly get something bad.
For now, she uses Bing's image search, but it's only a matter of time before this is killed, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31632910</id>
	<title>Re:It's completely pointless.</title>
	<author>stimpleton</author>
	<datestamp>1269599820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Shheeet! When I was In school computers were in central Govt depts only. And our teacher had Naturist Magazines on his desk. <i>Thats</i> how things have changed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shheeet !
When I was In school computers were in central Govt depts only .
And our teacher had Naturist Magazines on his desk .
Thats how things have changed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shheeet!
When I was In school computers were in central Govt depts only.
And our teacher had Naturist Magazines on his desk.
Thats how things have changed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31633328</id>
	<title>Re:So what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269601920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A better question would be "why did they legislate in something that would deliberately disadvantage poorer kids?".</p><p>It'd be simple to revoke, or ensure never arose in the first place - if only couldn't-give-a-shit attitudes like your one weren't so prevalent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A better question would be " why did they legislate in something that would deliberately disadvantage poorer kids ?
" .It 'd be simple to revoke , or ensure never arose in the first place - if only could n't-give-a-shit attitudes like your one were n't so prevalent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better question would be "why did they legislate in something that would deliberately disadvantage poorer kids?
".It'd be simple to revoke, or ensure never arose in the first place - if only couldn't-give-a-shit attitudes like your one weren't so prevalent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_1824239.31631722</id>
	<title>CIPA Compliance</title>
	<author>ohchaos</author>
	<datestamp>1269594960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In order to receive Federal E-Rate discounts, public schools are required to have filtering mechanisms in place that meet the standards set by the Children's Internet Protection Act.</p><p>I've administered K12 networks with internet access for over 15 years (both pre-CIPA, and post CIPA)...  I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility, especially with high school students.  Usually a couple times a semester a student would make a bad choice, and would be made an example of.... which would usually keep the rest of the students on the straight and narrow.</p><p>But for now, CIPA is the law of the land, so if you want free choice and thinking on your school's internet connection, contact your senator and congressman, because local admins really have no choice in this matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In order to receive Federal E-Rate discounts , public schools are required to have filtering mechanisms in place that meet the standards set by the Children 's Internet Protection Act.I 've administered K12 networks with internet access for over 15 years ( both pre-CIPA , and post CIPA ) ... I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility , especially with high school students .
Usually a couple times a semester a student would make a bad choice , and would be made an example of.... which would usually keep the rest of the students on the straight and narrow.But for now , CIPA is the law of the land , so if you want free choice and thinking on your school 's internet connection , contact your senator and congressman , because local admins really have no choice in this matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In order to receive Federal E-Rate discounts, public schools are required to have filtering mechanisms in place that meet the standards set by the Children's Internet Protection Act.I've administered K12 networks with internet access for over 15 years (both pre-CIPA, and post CIPA)...  I personally preferred not having to filter and teaching personal responsibility, especially with high school students.
Usually a couple times a semester a student would make a bad choice, and would be made an example of.... which would usually keep the rest of the students on the straight and narrow.But for now, CIPA is the law of the land, so if you want free choice and thinking on your school's internet connection, contact your senator and congressman, because local admins really have no choice in this matter.</sentencetext>
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