<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_25_2350236</id>
	<title>Can Ubuntu Save Online Banking?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269518460000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>CWmike writes with a pointer to this ComputerWorld mention of an interesting application of Live CDs, courtesy of Florida-based regional bank CNL: <i>"Recognizing that most consumers don't want to buy a separate computer for online banking, <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/15815/can\_ubuntu\_save\_online\_banking">CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu bootable 'live CD' discs in its branches and by mail</a>. The discs would boot up Linux, run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL's Web site. 'Everything you need to do will be sandboxed within that CD,' [CNL CIO Jay McLaughlin] says. That should protect customers from increasingly common drive-by downloads and other vectors for malicious code that may infect and lurk on PCs, waiting to steal the user account names, passwords and challenge questions normally required to access online banking."</i> (But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?)</htmltext>
<tokenext>CWmike writes with a pointer to this ComputerWorld mention of an interesting application of Live CDs , courtesy of Florida-based regional bank CNL : " Recognizing that most consumers do n't want to buy a separate computer for online banking , CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu bootable 'live CD ' discs in its branches and by mail .
The discs would boot up Linux , run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL 's Web site .
'Everything you need to do will be sandboxed within that CD, ' [ CNL CIO Jay McLaughlin ] says .
That should protect customers from increasingly common drive-by downloads and other vectors for malicious code that may infect and lurk on PCs , waiting to steal the user account names , passwords and challenge questions normally required to access online banking .
" ( But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CWmike writes with a pointer to this ComputerWorld mention of an interesting application of Live CDs, courtesy of Florida-based regional bank CNL: "Recognizing that most consumers don't want to buy a separate computer for online banking, CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu bootable 'live CD' discs in its branches and by mail.
The discs would boot up Linux, run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL's Web site.
'Everything you need to do will be sandboxed within that CD,' [CNL CIO Jay McLaughlin] says.
That should protect customers from increasingly common drive-by downloads and other vectors for malicious code that may infect and lurk on PCs, waiting to steal the user account names, passwords and challenge questions normally required to access online banking.
" (But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?
)</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620670</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS - CC sized card with on-board OS</title>
	<author>emkyooess</author>
	<datestamp>1269527340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean, like civilized Europe and WoW players have, but US banks still don't issue?  *sigh*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean , like civilized Europe and WoW players have , but US banks still do n't issue ?
* sigh *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean, like civilized Europe and WoW players have, but US banks still don't issue?
*sigh*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621880</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like a free way to get a lot of work on a whooooole lotta drivers reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally quick...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a free way to get a lot of work on a whooooole lotta drivers reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally quick.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a free way to get a lot of work on a whooooole lotta drivers reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally quick...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Jazz-Masta</author>
	<datestamp>1269523080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This seems like an overly complex way of ensuring security. And it's not like Ubuntu is 100\% secure - if there is a market for malware, it will be done. If, all of a sudden, all banking is done on Ubuntu and FF, I'm pretty sure they will find a way to attack that setup too.</p><p>It is inconvenient to have to drop everything you are doing, restart your computer and insert a disc and wait 5 minutes or so to load Ubuntu into memory just to check your online banking.</p><p>A simpler alternative would be to call a 1-800 number for your bank, have it authenticate against your verbal password and telephone #, and then issue a temporary password to you that will work for X minutes in Windows. It would probably only take 30 seconds to do it that way. Sounds complicated, right?  But any more complicated to the user than running a LiveCD?</p><p>Even easier would be to partner with VMWare and Ubuntu to issue a customized virtual machine that you could USE on Windows. Have it locked down so it can only visit one site, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This seems like an overly complex way of ensuring security .
And it 's not like Ubuntu is 100 \ % secure - if there is a market for malware , it will be done .
If , all of a sudden , all banking is done on Ubuntu and FF , I 'm pretty sure they will find a way to attack that setup too.It is inconvenient to have to drop everything you are doing , restart your computer and insert a disc and wait 5 minutes or so to load Ubuntu into memory just to check your online banking.A simpler alternative would be to call a 1-800 number for your bank , have it authenticate against your verbal password and telephone # , and then issue a temporary password to you that will work for X minutes in Windows .
It would probably only take 30 seconds to do it that way .
Sounds complicated , right ?
But any more complicated to the user than running a LiveCD ? Even easier would be to partner with VMWare and Ubuntu to issue a customized virtual machine that you could USE on Windows .
Have it locked down so it can only visit one site , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This seems like an overly complex way of ensuring security.
And it's not like Ubuntu is 100\% secure - if there is a market for malware, it will be done.
If, all of a sudden, all banking is done on Ubuntu and FF, I'm pretty sure they will find a way to attack that setup too.It is inconvenient to have to drop everything you are doing, restart your computer and insert a disc and wait 5 minutes or so to load Ubuntu into memory just to check your online banking.A simpler alternative would be to call a 1-800 number for your bank, have it authenticate against your verbal password and telephone #, and then issue a temporary password to you that will work for X minutes in Windows.
It would probably only take 30 seconds to do it that way.
Sounds complicated, right?
But any more complicated to the user than running a LiveCD?Even easier would be to partner with VMWare and Ubuntu to issue a customized virtual machine that you could USE on Windows.
Have it locked down so it can only visit one site, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621810</id>
	<title>Re:Why are banks wasting effort on things like thi</title>
	<author>VoltageX</author>
	<datestamp>1269536280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2622746.htm" title="abc.net.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2622746.htm</a> [abc.net.au]

Finally, something smart out of Australia!</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2622746.htm [ abc.net.au ] Finally , something smart out of Australia !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2622746.htm [abc.net.au]

Finally, something smart out of Australia!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621058</id>
	<title>Re:What about security patches?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269530160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They don't need to update it quarterly - only as often as serious exploits (those that can actually affect security - keeping in mind that the only app is the browser, and it is hardwired to browse the banks' website) appear. Doesn't have to be done on schedule, either - notify all customers who ever received a CD/USB stick by mail of a "security recall", or even just mail a new CD.</p><p>This can be enforced server-side, too - just patch the browser to send a custom UA string to the website which includes distro version in it, and redirect all clients with versions known to be insecure to a page that explains the problem, and directs them to visit their branch and pick up a new CD.</p><p>I actually like that idea a lot. I wouldn't use it, personally, but then I can keep my Win7 installation secure enough to not worry about such things. I do know many people who seem to get a trojan every month or two; for them, such a thing might actually be the only truly safe way to bank online.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't need to update it quarterly - only as often as serious exploits ( those that can actually affect security - keeping in mind that the only app is the browser , and it is hardwired to browse the banks ' website ) appear .
Does n't have to be done on schedule , either - notify all customers who ever received a CD/USB stick by mail of a " security recall " , or even just mail a new CD.This can be enforced server-side , too - just patch the browser to send a custom UA string to the website which includes distro version in it , and redirect all clients with versions known to be insecure to a page that explains the problem , and directs them to visit their branch and pick up a new CD.I actually like that idea a lot .
I would n't use it , personally , but then I can keep my Win7 installation secure enough to not worry about such things .
I do know many people who seem to get a trojan every month or two ; for them , such a thing might actually be the only truly safe way to bank online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't need to update it quarterly - only as often as serious exploits (those that can actually affect security - keeping in mind that the only app is the browser, and it is hardwired to browse the banks' website) appear.
Doesn't have to be done on schedule, either - notify all customers who ever received a CD/USB stick by mail of a "security recall", or even just mail a new CD.This can be enforced server-side, too - just patch the browser to send a custom UA string to the website which includes distro version in it, and redirect all clients with versions known to be insecure to a page that explains the problem, and directs them to visit their branch and pick up a new CD.I actually like that idea a lot.
I wouldn't use it, personally, but then I can keep my Win7 installation secure enough to not worry about such things.
I do know many people who seem to get a trojan every month or two; for them, such a thing might actually be the only truly safe way to bank online.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623380</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269599220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are no $49 netbooks, except if subsidized by a wireless contract.<br>The bank would not get that subsidy.</p><p>Checking the gateway site, $300 is the lowest real consumer price.<br>Granted, a bank could negotiate a lower price, but not much lower,<br>I don't expect the margins on netbooks are more than 10\%.</p><p>A low power ARM based netbook without a monitor could be a real possibility<br>at that price point or maybe $100 though.  Put it in a keyboard and let user<br>plug it into their monitor via a KVM.  May need to run a stripped down embedded<br>SE linux to fit on there, though.</p><p>I want a machine with no writeable NV memory for web - boot off a CD or<br>physically write-protected FLASH.  Could use it for web surfing and banking,<br>since it would be hack-proof as long as I reboot it before doing any banking.<br>I'd pay a few hundy for that; I may end up building it out of an old PC using<br>a live CD.</p><p>Does anyone know if SSD's are write-protectable somehow (physically) ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no $ 49 netbooks , except if subsidized by a wireless contract.The bank would not get that subsidy.Checking the gateway site , $ 300 is the lowest real consumer price.Granted , a bank could negotiate a lower price , but not much lower,I do n't expect the margins on netbooks are more than 10 \ % .A low power ARM based netbook without a monitor could be a real possibilityat that price point or maybe $ 100 though .
Put it in a keyboard and let userplug it into their monitor via a KVM .
May need to run a stripped down embeddedSE linux to fit on there , though.I want a machine with no writeable NV memory for web - boot off a CD orphysically write-protected FLASH .
Could use it for web surfing and banking,since it would be hack-proof as long as I reboot it before doing any banking.I 'd pay a few hundy for that ; I may end up building it out of an old PC usinga live CD.Does anyone know if SSD 's are write-protectable somehow ( physically ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no $49 netbooks, except if subsidized by a wireless contract.The bank would not get that subsidy.Checking the gateway site, $300 is the lowest real consumer price.Granted, a bank could negotiate a lower price, but not much lower,I don't expect the margins on netbooks are more than 10\%.A low power ARM based netbook without a monitor could be a real possibilityat that price point or maybe $100 though.
Put it in a keyboard and let userplug it into their monitor via a KVM.
May need to run a stripped down embeddedSE linux to fit on there, though.I want a machine with no writeable NV memory for web - boot off a CD orphysically write-protected FLASH.
Could use it for web surfing and banking,since it would be hack-proof as long as I reboot it before doing any banking.I'd pay a few hundy for that; I may end up building it out of an old PC usinga live CD.Does anyone know if SSD's are write-protectable somehow (physically) ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31628536</id>
	<title>I don't get it</title>
	<author>tsa</author>
	<datestamp>1269626400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't get the problem. Can somebody explain what this is really about? To me it really looks like a solution looking for a problem. Or are most banks outside the Netherlands still living in the early 2000's when you were required to use IE for their online stuff?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't get the problem .
Can somebody explain what this is really about ?
To me it really looks like a solution looking for a problem .
Or are most banks outside the Netherlands still living in the early 2000 's when you were required to use IE for their online stuff ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't get the problem.
Can somebody explain what this is really about?
To me it really looks like a solution looking for a problem.
Or are most banks outside the Netherlands still living in the early 2000's when you were required to use IE for their online stuff?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622558</id>
	<title>Unlikely to be hacked by the bank</title>
	<author>yikes88</author>
	<datestamp>1269545220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>XSS and CSRF attacks notwithstanding, the real problem is that it's casual web surfing and email that pose the risk of infection, so we're really talking about all the OTHER web use (i.e. everything that's not logging in to your bank or other high-target sites) that it would really benefit the average user to run the Live CD for.  Windows would be fine to use for banking sites if that's *ALL* you were ever use to it for.

For the above-average savvy, an Ubuntu/Fedora/whatever desktop install, fully patched and running, say, VirtualBox with 2 VMs, one for casual web surfing/email and one for online banking/etc. is about as good as one can do.  Bonus points for read-only guest disk images and FF/noscript.</htmltext>
<tokenext>XSS and CSRF attacks notwithstanding , the real problem is that it 's casual web surfing and email that pose the risk of infection , so we 're really talking about all the OTHER web use ( i.e .
everything that 's not logging in to your bank or other high-target sites ) that it would really benefit the average user to run the Live CD for .
Windows would be fine to use for banking sites if that 's * ALL * you were ever use to it for .
For the above-average savvy , an Ubuntu/Fedora/whatever desktop install , fully patched and running , say , VirtualBox with 2 VMs , one for casual web surfing/email and one for online banking/etc .
is about as good as one can do .
Bonus points for read-only guest disk images and FF/noscript .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>XSS and CSRF attacks notwithstanding, the real problem is that it's casual web surfing and email that pose the risk of infection, so we're really talking about all the OTHER web use (i.e.
everything that's not logging in to your bank or other high-target sites) that it would really benefit the average user to run the Live CD for.
Windows would be fine to use for banking sites if that's *ALL* you were ever use to it for.
For the above-average savvy, an Ubuntu/Fedora/whatever desktop install, fully patched and running, say, VirtualBox with 2 VMs, one for casual web surfing/email and one for online banking/etc.
is about as good as one can do.
Bonus points for read-only guest disk images and FF/noscript.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620700</id>
	<title>teknosapien</title>
	<author>teknosapien</author>
	<datestamp>1269527520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a great Idea</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a great Idea</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a great Idea</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621344</id>
	<title>Re:Alternative</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1269532500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how about:<br><a href="http://www.getpeek.com/" title="getpeek.com">http://www.getpeek.com/</a> [getpeek.com]</p><p>with a dedicated firmware specifically for accessing your bank?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how about : http : //www.getpeek.com/ [ getpeek.com ] with a dedicated firmware specifically for accessing your bank ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how about:http://www.getpeek.com/ [getpeek.com]with a dedicated firmware specifically for accessing your bank?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621054</id>
	<title>I just don't think this will work very well</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269530100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm afraid any usefulness is outweighed by the severe drawbacks.</p><p>See, there's this thing about computers, they're not all alike.   There are folks out there with old and I do mean old computers they use for whatever things they like, some of which don't even have DVD drives or USB.   Heck I'm surprised I'm not still running into folks using Commodore 64's or Atari ST's.</p><p>There are also folks using newer stuff, with who knows what inside.  Do you really think a bank wants to deal with the support issues that will arise from folks just plugging one in and people calling to complain that it just won't work?  Even if it's as simple as putting the disc in the other drive...yeah, that happens.  And what kind of bank would just say "that's up to you to live with!" instead of trying to fix it?  Not many.</p><p>The only way I could see this happening is if you have a default platform...which is something like the iPhone, a PSP, a Wii, a PS3 or an Xbox360.</p><p>I don't know how many of their customers would be interested in that option, but I doubt it's many.</p><p>However I don't know, maybe they know their customers better and are going to make it work.   Me, well, I'd rather have my money elsewhere.</p><p>Of course I don't do online banking either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm afraid any usefulness is outweighed by the severe drawbacks.See , there 's this thing about computers , they 're not all alike .
There are folks out there with old and I do mean old computers they use for whatever things they like , some of which do n't even have DVD drives or USB .
Heck I 'm surprised I 'm not still running into folks using Commodore 64 's or Atari ST 's.There are also folks using newer stuff , with who knows what inside .
Do you really think a bank wants to deal with the support issues that will arise from folks just plugging one in and people calling to complain that it just wo n't work ?
Even if it 's as simple as putting the disc in the other drive...yeah , that happens .
And what kind of bank would just say " that 's up to you to live with !
" instead of trying to fix it ?
Not many.The only way I could see this happening is if you have a default platform...which is something like the iPhone , a PSP , a Wii , a PS3 or an Xbox360.I do n't know how many of their customers would be interested in that option , but I doubt it 's many.However I do n't know , maybe they know their customers better and are going to make it work .
Me , well , I 'd rather have my money elsewhere.Of course I do n't do online banking either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm afraid any usefulness is outweighed by the severe drawbacks.See, there's this thing about computers, they're not all alike.
There are folks out there with old and I do mean old computers they use for whatever things they like, some of which don't even have DVD drives or USB.
Heck I'm surprised I'm not still running into folks using Commodore 64's or Atari ST's.There are also folks using newer stuff, with who knows what inside.
Do you really think a bank wants to deal with the support issues that will arise from folks just plugging one in and people calling to complain that it just won't work?
Even if it's as simple as putting the disc in the other drive...yeah, that happens.
And what kind of bank would just say "that's up to you to live with!
" instead of trying to fix it?
Not many.The only way I could see this happening is if you have a default platform...which is something like the iPhone, a PSP, a Wii, a PS3 or an Xbox360.I don't know how many of their customers would be interested in that option, but I doubt it's many.However I don't know, maybe they know their customers better and are going to make it work.
Me, well, I'd rather have my money elsewhere.Of course I don't do online banking either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620710</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>zonky</author>
	<datestamp>1269527580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The whole thing is worthless, as soon as you burn it to disk, because as soon as you do so, its now out of date - i.e, it subject to flaws. Or are you going to force the user to download all the patches everytime they run the thing? What if it needs a kernel upgrade/reboot? It'll never work?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole thing is worthless , as soon as you burn it to disk , because as soon as you do so , its now out of date - i.e , it subject to flaws .
Or are you going to force the user to download all the patches everytime they run the thing ?
What if it needs a kernel upgrade/reboot ?
It 'll never work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole thing is worthless, as soon as you burn it to disk, because as soon as you do so, its now out of date - i.e, it subject to flaws.
Or are you going to force the user to download all the patches everytime they run the thing?
What if it needs a kernel upgrade/reboot?
It'll never work?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620112</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269523740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Link to that $49 netbook?<br>Last I checked those kinds of prices on atom machine were subsidized and tied to a contract with a 3G provider.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Link to that $ 49 netbook ? Last I checked those kinds of prices on atom machine were subsidized and tied to a contract with a 3G provider .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Link to that $49 netbook?Last I checked those kinds of prices on atom machine were subsidized and tied to a contract with a 3G provider.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623108</id>
	<title>No it can't..</title>
	<author>SuperDre</author>
	<datestamp>1269596340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's really naive if you think this can 'save online banking', it's just as (un)safe as doing it via windows.. Even with this method a 'man in the middle' attach is possible.. And don't think Ubuntu/firefox is safe/secure.. There are just as many (even more) vulnerablities found as with windows (according to some security reports) but they don't have the effect as a vulnerability found in window, as the userbase is a lot LOT smaller..</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really naive if you think this can 'save online banking ' , it 's just as ( un ) safe as doing it via windows.. Even with this method a 'man in the middle ' attach is possible.. And do n't think Ubuntu/firefox is safe/secure.. There are just as many ( even more ) vulnerablities found as with windows ( according to some security reports ) but they do n't have the effect as a vulnerability found in window , as the userbase is a lot LOT smaller. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really naive if you think this can 'save online banking', it's just as (un)safe as doing it via windows.. Even with this method a 'man in the middle' attach is possible.. And don't think Ubuntu/firefox is safe/secure.. There are just as many (even more) vulnerablities found as with windows (according to some security reports) but they don't have the effect as a vulnerability found in window, as the userbase is a lot LOT smaller..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622884</id>
	<title>VMware ACE?</title>
	<author>\_Shad0w\_</author>
	<datestamp>1269635940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suspect VMware ACE is pretty much made for this sort of thing.  At least as far I can tell this was the kind of thing it was made for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect VMware ACE is pretty much made for this sort of thing .
At least as far I can tell this was the kind of thing it was made for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect VMware ACE is pretty much made for this sort of thing.
At least as far I can tell this was the kind of thing it was made for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620658</id>
	<title>This could work, if..</title>
	<author>deathguppie</author>
	<datestamp>1269527220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the banks simply created a custom disk for every customer, that included things like passwds, accounting software, etc.  It would not be such a pain and people would try it.  The feeling of security that the bank and the customer would get out of it would be worth it.</p><p>The only downside is that the disk itself could be stolen, but then so can your bank card or visa.  The other obvious problem is that people may think that the reason the disk is safe is because it's Ubuntu and just install it on disk, and then use it just as insecurely as they do windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the banks simply created a custom disk for every customer , that included things like passwds , accounting software , etc .
It would not be such a pain and people would try it .
The feeling of security that the bank and the customer would get out of it would be worth it.The only downside is that the disk itself could be stolen , but then so can your bank card or visa .
The other obvious problem is that people may think that the reason the disk is safe is because it 's Ubuntu and just install it on disk , and then use it just as insecurely as they do windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the banks simply created a custom disk for every customer, that included things like passwds, accounting software, etc.
It would not be such a pain and people would try it.
The feeling of security that the bank and the customer would get out of it would be worth it.The only downside is that the disk itself could be stolen, but then so can your bank card or visa.
The other obvious problem is that people may think that the reason the disk is safe is because it's Ubuntu and just install it on disk, and then use it just as insecurely as they do windows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31632836</id>
	<title>multitasking will not work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269599520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only issue I see is that often when I do Internet banking... I also have other documents open to assist in doing it properly. Like online/emailed bills from the cable, phone or credit card company.</p><p>Without this information available, I would find online banking far less convenient/usable. I may actually have to write things down.</p><p>I do think this is a good idea and I do believe customers will demand this and other sorts of security over time... as fraud hits them or someone they know.</p><p>Benjamin Quote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Those who give up linux for security deserve neither."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only issue I see is that often when I do Internet banking... I also have other documents open to assist in doing it properly .
Like online/emailed bills from the cable , phone or credit card company.Without this information available , I would find online banking far less convenient/usable .
I may actually have to write things down.I do think this is a good idea and I do believe customers will demand this and other sorts of security over time... as fraud hits them or someone they know.Benjamin Quote :         " Those who give up linux for security deserve neither .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only issue I see is that often when I do Internet banking... I also have other documents open to assist in doing it properly.
Like online/emailed bills from the cable, phone or credit card company.Without this information available, I would find online banking far less convenient/usable.
I may actually have to write things down.I do think this is a good idea and I do believe customers will demand this and other sorts of security over time... as fraud hits them or someone they know.Benjamin Quote:
        "Those who give up linux for security deserve neither.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620228</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS - CC sized card with on-board OS</title>
	<author>thms</author>
	<datestamp>1269524460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I have had in mind for a long is something <i>even more mobile</i> - a credit card sized micro computer with a number pad and a simple LCD display. Sortof like a calculator.</p><p>The OS on that has the <b>public key of the bank</b> and it has it's own private key for the owner (and the bank the corresponding public key). Thus it could use any medium to communicate with the bank, no matter how insecure. Maybe via a USB-dongle which you attach to the PC you are using. For online banking, you just go onto the bank site, <b>no login</b> there, and when asked for credentials you enter these on the card. Transactions get shown on the display of this unit, "You are about to transmit $349 to someShop.com, enter PIN" etc. As long as customers know to only trust their cards you could use the most malware infested PC in an internet caf&#233; and nothing would come of it. And even if some phisher convinces the hapless user that their card is broken and they have to enter the PIN on some phishing website, they still don't have the public key and thus can't do anything with it.</p><p>You could also use that in your grocery store, and prepare offline packages (with your public key) "pay $56 for this meal to the owner", enter your PIN and the waiter sticks the card somewhere it can communicate with your bank.</p><p> <b>Did I just solve online banking security?</b><nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I have had in mind for a long is something even more mobile - a credit card sized micro computer with a number pad and a simple LCD display .
Sortof like a calculator.The OS on that has the public key of the bank and it has it 's own private key for the owner ( and the bank the corresponding public key ) .
Thus it could use any medium to communicate with the bank , no matter how insecure .
Maybe via a USB-dongle which you attach to the PC you are using .
For online banking , you just go onto the bank site , no login there , and when asked for credentials you enter these on the card .
Transactions get shown on the display of this unit , " You are about to transmit $ 349 to someShop.com , enter PIN " etc .
As long as customers know to only trust their cards you could use the most malware infested PC in an internet caf   and nothing would come of it .
And even if some phisher convinces the hapless user that their card is broken and they have to enter the PIN on some phishing website , they still do n't have the public key and thus ca n't do anything with it.You could also use that in your grocery store , and prepare offline packages ( with your public key ) " pay $ 56 for this meal to the owner " , enter your PIN and the waiter sticks the card somewhere it can communicate with your bank .
Did I just solve online banking security ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I have had in mind for a long is something even more mobile - a credit card sized micro computer with a number pad and a simple LCD display.
Sortof like a calculator.The OS on that has the public key of the bank and it has it's own private key for the owner (and the bank the corresponding public key).
Thus it could use any medium to communicate with the bank, no matter how insecure.
Maybe via a USB-dongle which you attach to the PC you are using.
For online banking, you just go onto the bank site, no login there, and when asked for credentials you enter these on the card.
Transactions get shown on the display of this unit, "You are about to transmit $349 to someShop.com, enter PIN" etc.
As long as customers know to only trust their cards you could use the most malware infested PC in an internet café and nothing would come of it.
And even if some phisher convinces the hapless user that their card is broken and they have to enter the PIN on some phishing website, they still don't have the public key and thus can't do anything with it.You could also use that in your grocery store, and prepare offline packages (with your public key) "pay $56 for this meal to the owner", enter your PIN and the waiter sticks the card somewhere it can communicate with your bank.
Did I just solve online banking security?
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31628724</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>commando\_jim</author>
	<datestamp>1269627120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For those of you who are wondering if they missed some huge drop in netbook pricing like I was:

That $49 is the price as subsidized by a 2 year contract with Verizon wireless.  The cheapest non subsidized netbook on that list is the Lenovo IdeaPad S10-2 for $149.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For those of you who are wondering if they missed some huge drop in netbook pricing like I was : That $ 49 is the price as subsidized by a 2 year contract with Verizon wireless .
The cheapest non subsidized netbook on that list is the Lenovo IdeaPad S10-2 for $ 149 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those of you who are wondering if they missed some huge drop in netbook pricing like I was:

That $49 is the price as subsidized by a 2 year contract with Verizon wireless.
The cheapest non subsidized netbook on that list is the Lenovo IdeaPad S10-2 for $149.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620040</id>
	<title>What about security patches?</title>
	<author>GreyLurk</author>
	<datestamp>1269523440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So it sounds like some of the point of this is that it's on a static iso9660 filesystem, and so viruses/malware cannot be downloaded to it, but what about security upgrades?  With the news about webkit hacks today, and the Firefox security bugs recently, I'm not sure I'd trust my online banking to an unpatched OS from months ago.</p><p>I suppose a quarterly release by mail might alleviate some of the concern, but how much damage could a botnet owner do to a few million identical unpatched systems in 3 months?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So it sounds like some of the point of this is that it 's on a static iso9660 filesystem , and so viruses/malware can not be downloaded to it , but what about security upgrades ?
With the news about webkit hacks today , and the Firefox security bugs recently , I 'm not sure I 'd trust my online banking to an unpatched OS from months ago.I suppose a quarterly release by mail might alleviate some of the concern , but how much damage could a botnet owner do to a few million identical unpatched systems in 3 months ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it sounds like some of the point of this is that it's on a static iso9660 filesystem, and so viruses/malware cannot be downloaded to it, but what about security upgrades?
With the news about webkit hacks today, and the Firefox security bugs recently, I'm not sure I'd trust my online banking to an unpatched OS from months ago.I suppose a quarterly release by mail might alleviate some of the concern, but how much damage could a botnet owner do to a few million identical unpatched systems in 3 months?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621272</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1269532020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kernel upgrades are OPTIONAL upgrades.  The bank can run it's own update server, for that matter.  From the security viewpoint, a new kernel can actually be undesirable, sometimes.  I mean, it's wonderful if the new kernel enables new functionality, such as ext4, or some other fancy new file system.  But, the bank's netbook doesn't need ext4, because it's a single purpose appliance.  So, why upgrade the kernel?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kernel upgrades are OPTIONAL upgrades .
The bank can run it 's own update server , for that matter .
From the security viewpoint , a new kernel can actually be undesirable , sometimes .
I mean , it 's wonderful if the new kernel enables new functionality , such as ext4 , or some other fancy new file system .
But , the bank 's netbook does n't need ext4 , because it 's a single purpose appliance .
So , why upgrade the kernel ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kernel upgrades are OPTIONAL upgrades.
The bank can run it's own update server, for that matter.
From the security viewpoint, a new kernel can actually be undesirable, sometimes.
I mean, it's wonderful if the new kernel enables new functionality, such as ext4, or some other fancy new file system.
But, the bank's netbook doesn't need ext4, because it's a single purpose appliance.
So, why upgrade the kernel?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620122</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>tpstigers</author>
	<datestamp>1269523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, 98\% of the population will only shy away from something like this is they're told what the process actually is.  If they are told rather that it's their "Personal Online Banking Disc", and are then given instructions to walk them through the process, most people will happily buy into it.  Most people wouldn't hesitate to install an app for this purpose, so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , 98 \ % of the population will only shy away from something like this is they 're told what the process actually is .
If they are told rather that it 's their " Personal Online Banking Disc " , and are then given instructions to walk them through the process , most people will happily buy into it .
Most people would n't hesitate to install an app for this purpose , so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, 98\% of the population will only shy away from something like this is they're told what the process actually is.
If they are told rather that it's their "Personal Online Banking Disc", and are then given instructions to walk them through the process, most people will happily buy into it.
Most people wouldn't hesitate to install an app for this purpose, so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623060</id>
	<title>My bank uses my cellphone for authorization</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269595560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>My Dutch bank ING uses my cellphone for authorization of transactions or changes online. I can log in and view my account data with just a password, so that might get compromised, but for a transaction or for instance changing over to a new cellphone number, I need a transaction number that is being sms-ed to the cellphone.
<br>My other Dutch bank ABN/AMRO uses some kind of calculator thingy that provides a transaction number based on a value you receive from the banks webpage.
<br>The same ING bank also provides a very simple system where you have a sheet of paper with transaction numbers, and the webpage just asks you for your next TAN code.
<p>What do all these have in common? Right, <b>a separate transaction authorization outside the browser</b>. How hard is that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Dutch bank ING uses my cellphone for authorization of transactions or changes online .
I can log in and view my account data with just a password , so that might get compromised , but for a transaction or for instance changing over to a new cellphone number , I need a transaction number that is being sms-ed to the cellphone .
My other Dutch bank ABN/AMRO uses some kind of calculator thingy that provides a transaction number based on a value you receive from the banks webpage .
The same ING bank also provides a very simple system where you have a sheet of paper with transaction numbers , and the webpage just asks you for your next TAN code .
What do all these have in common ?
Right , a separate transaction authorization outside the browser .
How hard is that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Dutch bank ING uses my cellphone for authorization of transactions or changes online.
I can log in and view my account data with just a password, so that might get compromised, but for a transaction or for instance changing over to a new cellphone number, I need a transaction number that is being sms-ed to the cellphone.
My other Dutch bank ABN/AMRO uses some kind of calculator thingy that provides a transaction number based on a value you receive from the banks webpage.
The same ING bank also provides a very simple system where you have a sheet of paper with transaction numbers, and the webpage just asks you for your next TAN code.
What do all these have in common?
Right, a separate transaction authorization outside the browser.
How hard is that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621098</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS - CC sized card with on-board OS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269530460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about a USB smartcard reader and the ATM card they most likely already have?</p><p>RO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about a USB smartcard reader and the ATM card they most likely already have ? RO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about a USB smartcard reader and the ATM card they most likely already have?RO</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620566</id>
	<title>Unpatched Firefox for online banking? No thanks!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269526620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless they plan on sending you a new Live CD every time a new Firefox or Linux kernel security bug is patched, many users would be vulnerable to attacks within a few months of this CD being released. A smart phisher will eventually construct an effective "man in the middle" style style attack using whatever security holes are discovered, and the bank would probably take at least a week to develop, test, and ship new CD's that have the issue patched.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless they plan on sending you a new Live CD every time a new Firefox or Linux kernel security bug is patched , many users would be vulnerable to attacks within a few months of this CD being released .
A smart phisher will eventually construct an effective " man in the middle " style style attack using whatever security holes are discovered , and the bank would probably take at least a week to develop , test , and ship new CD 's that have the issue patched .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless they plan on sending you a new Live CD every time a new Firefox or Linux kernel security bug is patched, many users would be vulnerable to attacks within a few months of this CD being released.
A smart phisher will eventually construct an effective "man in the middle" style style attack using whatever security holes are discovered, and the bank would probably take at least a week to develop, test, and ship new CD's that have the issue patched.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</id>
	<title>Convenience?</title>
	<author>rschuetzler</author>
	<datestamp>1269522300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't the point of online banking that it is convenient? And easy? For me, booting from a Live CD may be a piece of cake, but for a lot of people, it's far from that.</p><p>Even if it is a great idea, 98\% of the population won't latch on to something like this, and the 2\% who might are probably already running linux</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't the point of online banking that it is convenient ?
And easy ?
For me , booting from a Live CD may be a piece of cake , but for a lot of people , it 's far from that.Even if it is a great idea , 98 \ % of the population wo n't latch on to something like this , and the 2 \ % who might are probably already running linux</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't the point of online banking that it is convenient?
And easy?
For me, booting from a Live CD may be a piece of cake, but for a lot of people, it's far from that.Even if it is a great idea, 98\% of the population won't latch on to something like this, and the 2\% who might are probably already running linux</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619834</id>
	<title>BIOS</title>
	<author>sourcerror</author>
	<datestamp>1269522240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about infecting the BIOS?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about infecting the BIOS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about infecting the BIOS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621084</id>
	<title>McAfee... theres your problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269530280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the article: <i>"I have the McAfee security suite loaded and do regular scans so accessing online banking should be protected. Right? "</i></p><p>Wrong. I've worked on MANY PCs that got infected with a virus and many of them had updated McAfee security suites that failed to detect the trojan/malware compared to 100\% free antivirus programs out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the article : " I have the McAfee security suite loaded and do regular scans so accessing online banking should be protected .
Right ? " Wrong .
I 've worked on MANY PCs that got infected with a virus and many of them had updated McAfee security suites that failed to detect the trojan/malware compared to 100 \ % free antivirus programs out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the article: "I have the McAfee security suite loaded and do regular scans so accessing online banking should be protected.
Right? "Wrong.
I've worked on MANY PCs that got infected with a virus and many of them had updated McAfee security suites that failed to detect the trojan/malware compared to 100\% free antivirus programs out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620768</id>
	<title>Security updates</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269528060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A static image of any desktop operating system with a modern browser will, in short order, become less secure than a Windows Vista or Windows 7 install with all of its security defaults (including Windows Update).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A static image of any desktop operating system with a modern browser will , in short order , become less secure than a Windows Vista or Windows 7 install with all of its security defaults ( including Windows Update ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A static image of any desktop operating system with a modern browser will, in short order, become less secure than a Windows Vista or Windows 7 install with all of its security defaults (including Windows Update).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620460</id>
	<title>Authenticator</title>
	<author>BinaryX01</author>
	<datestamp>1269525900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This might be a cheaper method by far, but wouldn't it make more sense to send your customers an authenticator (fast one time key to enter along with your user name and password). It would be far less technical than the live CD and filter out the majority of key loggers. I don't know how well the live CD idea would stop phishing attacks, most users will simply click on the link in the email to "confirm"  their account information rather than booting into the secure operating system only to find out that that there is no area of the site asking them to confirm all the information that was in the email.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This might be a cheaper method by far , but would n't it make more sense to send your customers an authenticator ( fast one time key to enter along with your user name and password ) .
It would be far less technical than the live CD and filter out the majority of key loggers .
I do n't know how well the live CD idea would stop phishing attacks , most users will simply click on the link in the email to " confirm " their account information rather than booting into the secure operating system only to find out that that there is no area of the site asking them to confirm all the information that was in the email .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This might be a cheaper method by far, but wouldn't it make more sense to send your customers an authenticator (fast one time key to enter along with your user name and password).
It would be far less technical than the live CD and filter out the majority of key loggers.
I don't know how well the live CD idea would stop phishing attacks, most users will simply click on the link in the email to "confirm"  their account information rather than booting into the secure operating system only to find out that that there is no area of the site asking them to confirm all the information that was in the email.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620606</id>
	<title>The disk is a token? and etc. vs et al.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269526860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could use token authentication and just allow the disk to keep a cookie that logs them in with minimal interaction (either nothing or a short password like their pin).</p><p>Also, just thought you might like to know... Et al. is short for et alii and translates literally as, "with others." etc. is short for et cetera and translates roughly as, "with other objects". There is a people/things distinction. So if the other stuff is people, "et al." and if the other stuff is things, "etc.".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could use token authentication and just allow the disk to keep a cookie that logs them in with minimal interaction ( either nothing or a short password like their pin ) .Also , just thought you might like to know... Et al .
is short for et alii and translates literally as , " with others .
" etc .
is short for et cetera and translates roughly as , " with other objects " .
There is a people/things distinction .
So if the other stuff is people , " et al .
" and if the other stuff is things , " etc .
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could use token authentication and just allow the disk to keep a cookie that logs them in with minimal interaction (either nothing or a short password like their pin).Also, just thought you might like to know... Et al.
is short for et alii and translates literally as, "with others.
" etc.
is short for et cetera and translates roughly as, "with other objects".
There is a people/things distinction.
So if the other stuff is people, "et al.
" and if the other stuff is things, "etc.
".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621816</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting, but what about users?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sharpie the username/password on the disc?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sharpie the username/password on the disc ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sharpie the username/password on the disc?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624968</id>
	<title>A great idea for games as well</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269612900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games companies should do this as well. Will make the PC more like a console.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games companies should do this as well .
Will make the PC more like a console .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games companies should do this as well.
Will make the PC more like a console.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620178</id>
	<title>This defeats the purpose of an OS</title>
	<author>mugurel</author>
	<datestamp>1269524100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if, after the banks discover this as a way to increase security, software companies start to use this approach to provide a dedicated environment to make their software run even better? We'll spend half our lives waiting for live-cd's to boot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if , after the banks discover this as a way to increase security , software companies start to use this approach to provide a dedicated environment to make their software run even better ?
We 'll spend half our lives waiting for live-cd 's to boot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if, after the banks discover this as a way to increase security, software companies start to use this approach to provide a dedicated environment to make their software run even better?
We'll spend half our lives waiting for live-cd's to boot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619854</id>
	<title>fp -- custom os distro for banking??</title>
	<author>8282now</author>
	<datestamp>1269522360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't a bad idea....</p><p>I do something like this for some of my clients that are concerned with security.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... that is unless I can convert them to Linux on a permanent basis<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't a bad idea....I do something like this for some of my clients that are concerned with security .
... that is unless I can convert them to Linux on a permanent basis : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't a bad idea....I do something like this for some of my clients that are concerned with security.
... that is unless I can convert them to Linux on a permanent basis :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31631794</id>
	<title>Re:It's also stupid</title>
	<author>DRACO-</author>
	<datestamp>1269595260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The credit card number generator has been compromised by man in the middle attacks.  Man in the middle intercepts your ssl connection, makes another connect himself to your bank, presents you the screen he gets. You see what looks like the bank, you enter your user/pass and generated number.  Man in the middle thief does the same and starts moving money.. gets a prompt for another code from the generator and spits that out at you to get another code.  You supply it, he enters it for his transaction.. Bye bye money.</p><p>Feel secure holding that number generator card now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The credit card number generator has been compromised by man in the middle attacks .
Man in the middle intercepts your ssl connection , makes another connect himself to your bank , presents you the screen he gets .
You see what looks like the bank , you enter your user/pass and generated number .
Man in the middle thief does the same and starts moving money.. gets a prompt for another code from the generator and spits that out at you to get another code .
You supply it , he enters it for his transaction.. Bye bye money.Feel secure holding that number generator card now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The credit card number generator has been compromised by man in the middle attacks.
Man in the middle intercepts your ssl connection, makes another connect himself to your bank, presents you the screen he gets.
You see what looks like the bank, you enter your user/pass and generated number.
Man in the middle thief does the same and starts moving money.. gets a prompt for another code from the generator and spits that out at you to get another code.
You supply it, he enters it for his transaction.. Bye bye money.Feel secure holding that number generator card now?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620958</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Space Guerilla</author>
	<datestamp>1269529200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When you give computers to the public they usually get abused.
In my experience computer lab, and library computers are more messed up than any computer I have at home.
<p>
But yes, assuming they treated them like you and me, I think it would be a great idea.
It would give us peace of mind, and decrease cyber crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you give computers to the public they usually get abused .
In my experience computer lab , and library computers are more messed up than any computer I have at home .
But yes , assuming they treated them like you and me , I think it would be a great idea .
It would give us peace of mind , and decrease cyber crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you give computers to the public they usually get abused.
In my experience computer lab, and library computers are more messed up than any computer I have at home.
But yes, assuming they treated them like you and me, I think it would be a great idea.
It would give us peace of mind, and decrease cyber crime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621166</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS - CC sized card with on-board OS</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1269531000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why not have peck create a custom version of their "email" device that can only interface with a specific bank?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why not have peck create a custom version of their " email " device that can only interface with a specific bank ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why not have peck create a custom version of their "email" device that can only interface with a specific bank?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621996</id>
	<title>Doctored Disks</title>
	<author>LtGordon</author>
	<datestamp>1269538200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?)</p></div><p>Frank Abagnale Jr, the famous con-man of Catch Me If You Can fame, was known to print deposit slips with his own account's number and randomly insert them into stacks of blank slips at the bank. The unsuspecting patron fills out the "compromised" slip and the money goes into the unintended account. It seems like somebody could fairly easily modify the disk image to include a keylogger/MITM, replace disks with compromised copies, and put them back into circulation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks ?
) Frank Abagnale Jr , the famous con-man of Catch Me If You Can fame , was known to print deposit slips with his own account 's number and randomly insert them into stacks of blank slips at the bank .
The unsuspecting patron fills out the " compromised " slip and the money goes into the unintended account .
It seems like somebody could fairly easily modify the disk image to include a keylogger/MITM , replace disks with compromised copies , and put them back into circulation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?
)Frank Abagnale Jr, the famous con-man of Catch Me If You Can fame, was known to print deposit slips with his own account's number and randomly insert them into stacks of blank slips at the bank.
The unsuspecting patron fills out the "compromised" slip and the money goes into the unintended account.
It seems like somebody could fairly easily modify the disk image to include a keylogger/MITM, replace disks with compromised copies, and put them back into circulation.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623142</id>
	<title>nice idea, but not new</title>
	<author>moronoxyd</author>
	<datestamp>1269596640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>German computer magazine c't started a very similar project called <a href="http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html" title="heise.de">http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html</a> [heise.de] (German) a few years ago. It's not set up for any one bank, obviously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>German computer magazine c't started a very similar project called http : //www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html [ heise.de ] ( German ) a few years ago .
It 's not set up for any one bank , obviously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>German computer magazine c't started a very similar project called http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html [heise.de] (German) a few years ago.
It's not set up for any one bank, obviously.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621106</id>
	<title>But I don't want a live CD!</title>
	<author>SmackTheIgnorant</author>
	<datestamp>1269530520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I need to do my banking via 3.5" floppy, as my 5.25" drive isn't working very well anymore, and I don't want to buy one of them newfangled compact-drive thingies... <p>
What can the bank do for me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I need to do my banking via 3.5 " floppy , as my 5.25 " drive is n't working very well anymore , and I do n't want to buy one of them newfangled compact-drive thingies.. . What can the bank do for me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I need to do my banking via 3.5" floppy, as my 5.25" drive isn't working very well anymore, and I don't want to buy one of them newfangled compact-drive thingies... 
What can the bank do for me?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622364</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269543240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the point is that with a huge number of dirty bot-infested windows machines out there transmitting financial information and passwords all over the world, we are not necessarily any more secure than we were with a paper-based system.  The "live-cd" concept, in my assessment, is definitely more secure than paper via mail.</p><p>Remember - there is no perfect security.  We can't make it perfect.  The moment we convince ourselves that our security is perfect, all is lost because only then will we stop looking for the infinite remaining vulnerabilities.</p><p>Oh, sorry.  I got so excited about refuting point 2 that I forgot about point 1.  Of course the user would screw it up.  Sorry to have bothered you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the point is that with a huge number of dirty bot-infested windows machines out there transmitting financial information and passwords all over the world , we are not necessarily any more secure than we were with a paper-based system .
The " live-cd " concept , in my assessment , is definitely more secure than paper via mail.Remember - there is no perfect security .
We ca n't make it perfect .
The moment we convince ourselves that our security is perfect , all is lost because only then will we stop looking for the infinite remaining vulnerabilities.Oh , sorry .
I got so excited about refuting point 2 that I forgot about point 1 .
Of course the user would screw it up .
Sorry to have bothered you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the point is that with a huge number of dirty bot-infested windows machines out there transmitting financial information and passwords all over the world, we are not necessarily any more secure than we were with a paper-based system.
The "live-cd" concept, in my assessment, is definitely more secure than paper via mail.Remember - there is no perfect security.
We can't make it perfect.
The moment we convince ourselves that our security is perfect, all is lost because only then will we stop looking for the infinite remaining vulnerabilities.Oh, sorry.
I got so excited about refuting point 2 that I forgot about point 1.
Of course the user would screw it up.
Sorry to have bothered you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31626348</id>
	<title>Re:FFS</title>
	<author>pak9rabid</author>
	<datestamp>1269618660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The device you're referring to is called a token, and they're not nearly as cheap as a mass-produced CD.<br> <br>

The real-estate industry has used tokens before to limit access to MLS systems to only agents that are paying customers, in order to prevent agents from sharing accounts.  However, due to a high demand from their members, the MLS associations have started getting rid of these tokens (partly because they get to be a PITA to deal with, and the high costs associated with them).  I'd imagine online-banking-based tokens would end up suffering the same fate as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The device you 're referring to is called a token , and they 're not nearly as cheap as a mass-produced CD .
The real-estate industry has used tokens before to limit access to MLS systems to only agents that are paying customers , in order to prevent agents from sharing accounts .
However , due to a high demand from their members , the MLS associations have started getting rid of these tokens ( partly because they get to be a PITA to deal with , and the high costs associated with them ) .
I 'd imagine online-banking-based tokens would end up suffering the same fate as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The device you're referring to is called a token, and they're not nearly as cheap as a mass-produced CD.
The real-estate industry has used tokens before to limit access to MLS systems to only agents that are paying customers, in order to prevent agents from sharing accounts.
However, due to a high demand from their members, the MLS associations have started getting rid of these tokens (partly because they get to be a PITA to deal with, and the high costs associated with them).
I'd imagine online-banking-based tokens would end up suffering the same fate as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620792</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624916</id>
	<title>options</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269612600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out Rapport from Trusteer which secures the browser, malware or not. Also look at Safecentral which provides a secure sandbox within the browser. These are options unless of course your bank is providing out of band, transaction level authorization.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out Rapport from Trusteer which secures the browser , malware or not .
Also look at Safecentral which provides a secure sandbox within the browser .
These are options unless of course your bank is providing out of band , transaction level authorization .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out Rapport from Trusteer which secures the browser, malware or not.
Also look at Safecentral which provides a secure sandbox within the browser.
These are options unless of course your bank is providing out of band, transaction level authorization.
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621536</id>
	<title>Alternate uses for the disk</title>
	<author>Slack0ff</author>
	<datestamp>1269534180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wait til it's figured out by the masses that you can use these disks to view porn with out the wife being able to spot it in the history. Banking has never been so exciting!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait til it 's figured out by the masses that you can use these disks to view porn with out the wife being able to spot it in the history .
Banking has never been so exciting !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait til it's figured out by the masses that you can use these disks to view porn with out the wife being able to spot it in the history.
Banking has never been so exciting!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620218</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Sporkinum</author>
	<datestamp>1269524400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would be a subsidized price. You'd have to tack on a $60 a month data plan for at least 2 years in addition. A netbook with those specs is generally around $300.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would be a subsidized price .
You 'd have to tack on a $ 60 a month data plan for at least 2 years in addition .
A netbook with those specs is generally around $ 300 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would be a subsidized price.
You'd have to tack on a $60 a month data plan for at least 2 years in addition.
A netbook with those specs is generally around $300.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620974</id>
	<title>QEmu/VM solution ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269529320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why doesn't someone create a Linux distro w/ Firefox running instead of a window manager, cut out everything that isn't needed (except network/wifi) and package it as a QEmu/VM image?</p><p>Bootable from within Windows, so as not to scare the "I don't reboot" crowd, but still provide the security and convenience of Linux?</p><p>Seems a bit archaic to require someone to reboot just to access their online banking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does n't someone create a Linux distro w/ Firefox running instead of a window manager , cut out everything that is n't needed ( except network/wifi ) and package it as a QEmu/VM image ? Bootable from within Windows , so as not to scare the " I do n't reboot " crowd , but still provide the security and convenience of Linux ? Seems a bit archaic to require someone to reboot just to access their online banking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why doesn't someone create a Linux distro w/ Firefox running instead of a window manager, cut out everything that isn't needed (except network/wifi) and package it as a QEmu/VM image?Bootable from within Windows, so as not to scare the "I don't reboot" crowd, but still provide the security and convenience of Linux?Seems a bit archaic to require someone to reboot just to access their online banking.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31629264</id>
	<title>USB Fob</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269628800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many people have those gas station 'quick pay' fobs?<br>Ubuntu has a "Wubi" install, or boot into the usb drive directly.<br>Software is stored there (can be updated by the bank).</p><p>of course, I do all my banking in person as<br>I know too much and say 'no thanks' to on-line banking requests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many people have those gas station 'quick pay ' fobs ? Ubuntu has a " Wubi " install , or boot into the usb drive directly.Software is stored there ( can be updated by the bank ) .of course , I do all my banking in person asI know too much and say 'no thanks ' to on-line banking requests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many people have those gas station 'quick pay' fobs?Ubuntu has a "Wubi" install, or boot into the usb drive directly.Software is stored there (can be updated by the bank).of course, I do all my banking in person asI know too much and say 'no thanks' to on-line banking requests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620304</id>
	<title>Behavior change</title>
	<author>thesaurus</author>
	<datestamp>1269524940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If this works (and it is at least creative) it will have little to do with the security of linux or of a live CD. It will be in getting customers to change their online banking behavior, being willing to take an extra, obtrusive step, reducing convenience in the name of security. Which is quite the opposite direction that banking has been going for a while (ATMs, online banking, mobile banking).

Which then begs the question, what about mobile banking?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this works ( and it is at least creative ) it will have little to do with the security of linux or of a live CD .
It will be in getting customers to change their online banking behavior , being willing to take an extra , obtrusive step , reducing convenience in the name of security .
Which is quite the opposite direction that banking has been going for a while ( ATMs , online banking , mobile banking ) .
Which then begs the question , what about mobile banking ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this works (and it is at least creative) it will have little to do with the security of linux or of a live CD.
It will be in getting customers to change their online banking behavior, being willing to take an extra, obtrusive step, reducing convenience in the name of security.
Which is quite the opposite direction that banking has been going for a while (ATMs, online banking, mobile banking).
Which then begs the question, what about mobile banking?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620386</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269525540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, yah know what? Convenience isn't a right. There is no constitutional amendment, clause, or condition guaranteeing you convenience. Convenience is earned. You earn convenience by being diligent. Are you interested enough in your own self-preservation to bother browsing the web in a secure way? Then you get convenience. Are you the other 80\% who insist on throwing yourself off a cliff and expecting others to plunge to their possible death just to save you? Then you don't get convenience. You get a rubber suit and a leash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , yah know what ?
Convenience is n't a right .
There is no constitutional amendment , clause , or condition guaranteeing you convenience .
Convenience is earned .
You earn convenience by being diligent .
Are you interested enough in your own self-preservation to bother browsing the web in a secure way ?
Then you get convenience .
Are you the other 80 \ % who insist on throwing yourself off a cliff and expecting others to plunge to their possible death just to save you ?
Then you do n't get convenience .
You get a rubber suit and a leash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, yah know what?
Convenience isn't a right.
There is no constitutional amendment, clause, or condition guaranteeing you convenience.
Convenience is earned.
You earn convenience by being diligent.
Are you interested enough in your own self-preservation to bother browsing the web in a secure way?
Then you get convenience.
Are you the other 80\% who insist on throwing yourself off a cliff and expecting others to plunge to their possible death just to save you?
Then you don't get convenience.
You get a rubber suit and a leash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620054</id>
	<title>Utah does this...</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1269523500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lots of Utah state government employees who work from home (for example, people who do data entry for Dept. of Workforce Services). It's worked pretty well, bypasses a lot of problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of Utah state government employees who work from home ( for example , people who do data entry for Dept .
of Workforce Services ) .
It 's worked pretty well , bypasses a lot of problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of Utah state government employees who work from home (for example, people who do data entry for Dept.
of Workforce Services).
It's worked pretty well, bypasses a lot of problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621840</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would it be unlocked enough to allow you to connect it to your home wifi network? Or would it use 3G?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it be unlocked enough to allow you to connect it to your home wifi network ?
Or would it use 3G ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would it be unlocked enough to allow you to connect it to your home wifi network?
Or would it use 3G?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620452</id>
	<title>Brillant!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269525840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's a great idea.
</p><p>Especially since the technology for building your own pre-owned version of Ubuntu, writing it to a CD-ROM and then printing a bank logo on it is very complicated and expensive and thus completely out of reach of all but the most well funded banks and governments, so we won't ever see anyone tampering with this process.
</p><p>Simply brillant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a great idea .
Especially since the technology for building your own pre-owned version of Ubuntu , writing it to a CD-ROM and then printing a bank logo on it is very complicated and expensive and thus completely out of reach of all but the most well funded banks and governments , so we wo n't ever see anyone tampering with this process .
Simply brillant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a great idea.
Especially since the technology for building your own pre-owned version of Ubuntu, writing it to a CD-ROM and then printing a bank logo on it is very complicated and expensive and thus completely out of reach of all but the most well funded banks and governments, so we won't ever see anyone tampering with this process.
Simply brillant.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621696</id>
	<title>s/someone/Ballmer</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1269535080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>heh</htmltext>
<tokenext>heh</tokentext>
<sentencetext>heh</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269523200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD.</p><p>Don't mod me funny, I'm serious. Like maybe a $100 little book running Linux, automatically set to keep itself up to date to eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars in cybercrime. The banks would own it, maybe even lease it to you for a $2 banking fee for having an online account with them. When you don't need it anymore or switch banks, you give it back to them and they would wipe the BIOS and system and reuse it.</p><p>In fact, they could probably even make the netbook cheaper by not including a hard drive. Just boot from USB or CD, maybe even a small USB traveldrive installed internally inside the case itself. The USB ports could be removed or completely disabled, no CDROM drive included, no HDD, etc. It becomes more or less a dumb terminal whose only purpose is to connect to the bank on boot. And, in addition, sandboxed to not allow any other applications to run besides the required startup items.</p><p>Just checked and it looks like Gateway sells a $49 netbook, found it on CNETs list of netbooks when I sorted by lowest price. And, that's *consumer* price, if the banks bought in bulk they'd even be cheaper than that. If they banks told them they didn't want USB ports (except the internal one), no harddrives, etc. then it would even be cheaper. I bet they could get them for $25 or so apiece in bulk for say 1000 units. That's not much cost to essentially eliminate the wholesale highway robbery of people's accounts that's been going on. The savings would be pretty enormous. Offset that with a small lease fee like I suggested above and its a win/win for everyone involved. Not to mention it would help Gateway out of its slump.</p><p>Gateway LT2016u (Verizon Wireless) Specs: Intel Atom N270 / 1.6 GHz, 1 GB, 160 GB, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, 10.1 in TFT active matrix, 3 lbs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD.Do n't mod me funny , I 'm serious .
Like maybe a $ 100 little book running Linux , automatically set to keep itself up to date to eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars in cybercrime .
The banks would own it , maybe even lease it to you for a $ 2 banking fee for having an online account with them .
When you do n't need it anymore or switch banks , you give it back to them and they would wipe the BIOS and system and reuse it.In fact , they could probably even make the netbook cheaper by not including a hard drive .
Just boot from USB or CD , maybe even a small USB traveldrive installed internally inside the case itself .
The USB ports could be removed or completely disabled , no CDROM drive included , no HDD , etc .
It becomes more or less a dumb terminal whose only purpose is to connect to the bank on boot .
And , in addition , sandboxed to not allow any other applications to run besides the required startup items.Just checked and it looks like Gateway sells a $ 49 netbook , found it on CNETs list of netbooks when I sorted by lowest price .
And , that 's * consumer * price , if the banks bought in bulk they 'd even be cheaper than that .
If they banks told them they did n't want USB ports ( except the internal one ) , no harddrives , etc .
then it would even be cheaper .
I bet they could get them for $ 25 or so apiece in bulk for say 1000 units .
That 's not much cost to essentially eliminate the wholesale highway robbery of people 's accounts that 's been going on .
The savings would be pretty enormous .
Offset that with a small lease fee like I suggested above and its a win/win for everyone involved .
Not to mention it would help Gateway out of its slump.Gateway LT2016u ( Verizon Wireless ) Specs : Intel Atom N270 / 1.6 GHz , 1 GB , 160 GB , Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition , 10.1 in TFT active matrix , 3 lbs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD.Don't mod me funny, I'm serious.
Like maybe a $100 little book running Linux, automatically set to keep itself up to date to eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars in cybercrime.
The banks would own it, maybe even lease it to you for a $2 banking fee for having an online account with them.
When you don't need it anymore or switch banks, you give it back to them and they would wipe the BIOS and system and reuse it.In fact, they could probably even make the netbook cheaper by not including a hard drive.
Just boot from USB or CD, maybe even a small USB traveldrive installed internally inside the case itself.
The USB ports could be removed or completely disabled, no CDROM drive included, no HDD, etc.
It becomes more or less a dumb terminal whose only purpose is to connect to the bank on boot.
And, in addition, sandboxed to not allow any other applications to run besides the required startup items.Just checked and it looks like Gateway sells a $49 netbook, found it on CNETs list of netbooks when I sorted by lowest price.
And, that's *consumer* price, if the banks bought in bulk they'd even be cheaper than that.
If they banks told them they didn't want USB ports (except the internal one), no harddrives, etc.
then it would even be cheaper.
I bet they could get them for $25 or so apiece in bulk for say 1000 units.
That's not much cost to essentially eliminate the wholesale highway robbery of people's accounts that's been going on.
The savings would be pretty enormous.
Offset that with a small lease fee like I suggested above and its a win/win for everyone involved.
Not to mention it would help Gateway out of its slump.Gateway LT2016u (Verizon Wireless) Specs: Intel Atom N270 / 1.6 GHz, 1 GB, 160 GB, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, 10.1 in TFT active matrix, 3 lbs</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620730</id>
	<title>I do the same thing with Knoppix.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269527700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't do much banking, but when I do I use a Knoppix disk to log on my account. I do the same thing for buying anything online.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't do much banking , but when I do I use a Knoppix disk to log on my account .
I do the same thing for buying anything online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't do much banking, but when I do I use a Knoppix disk to log on my account.
I do the same thing for buying anything online.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622822</id>
	<title>Poor customers</title>
	<author>Kaitnieks</author>
	<datestamp>1269635220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Too bad their network won't work because of missing drivers for wifi card as it usually happens on Ubuntu. Maybe the fact that internet won't work for customers is the ultimate security feature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad their network wo n't work because of missing drivers for wifi card as it usually happens on Ubuntu .
Maybe the fact that internet wo n't work for customers is the ultimate security feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad their network won't work because of missing drivers for wifi card as it usually happens on Ubuntu.
Maybe the fact that internet won't work for customers is the ultimate security feature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623128</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>brusk</author>
	<datestamp>1269596520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the parent meant that when you open a CD account the bank sends you a netbook.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the parent meant that when you open a CD account the bank sends you a netbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the parent meant that when you open a CD account the bank sends you a netbook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31625106</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269613680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not just do what my bank does, and hand out a calculator sized device that you insert your bank card into and enter your pin. The web site generates a unique number that you also enter into the 'calculator', and it uses the combination of card, pin, and web site number to generate a response number that you enter back into the web site.</p><p>my bank requires me to do this on login, and whenever I transfer money between accounts. It's a bit of a pain when I'm travelling, but I'd far rather carry round my 'calculator' than an entire netbook!</p><p>https://www.abnamro.nl/en/logon/identification.007</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just do what my bank does , and hand out a calculator sized device that you insert your bank card into and enter your pin .
The web site generates a unique number that you also enter into the 'calculator ' , and it uses the combination of card , pin , and web site number to generate a response number that you enter back into the web site.my bank requires me to do this on login , and whenever I transfer money between accounts .
It 's a bit of a pain when I 'm travelling , but I 'd far rather carry round my 'calculator ' than an entire netbook ! https : //www.abnamro.nl/en/logon/identification.007</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just do what my bank does, and hand out a calculator sized device that you insert your bank card into and enter your pin.
The web site generates a unique number that you also enter into the 'calculator', and it uses the combination of card, pin, and web site number to generate a response number that you enter back into the web site.my bank requires me to do this on login, and whenever I transfer money between accounts.
It's a bit of a pain when I'm travelling, but I'd far rather carry round my 'calculator' than an entire netbook!https://www.abnamro.nl/en/logon/identification.007</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621212</id>
	<title>Ubuntu Ubuntu Ubuntu...</title>
	<author>supersloshy</author>
	<datestamp>1269531360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is Ubuntu so synonymous with Linux? Don't people know there are alternatives, or are they all too "geeky" for normal users? I've tried lots of Linux distributions and they're all very nice and usable. Couldn't they base this on Debian, or Fedora, or even just make their own distribution? Basing it on Ubuntu would only add unnecessary bloat; just give people something like <a href="http://partedmagic.com/" title="partedmagic.com" rel="nofollow">Parted Magic</a> [partedmagic.com] or D@mn Small Linux (or something similar with maybe a more appropriate name for banks) and don't reinvent the wheel. "Can Ubuntu save online baking?" why not "can Linux save online banking"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is Ubuntu so synonymous with Linux ?
Do n't people know there are alternatives , or are they all too " geeky " for normal users ?
I 've tried lots of Linux distributions and they 're all very nice and usable .
Could n't they base this on Debian , or Fedora , or even just make their own distribution ?
Basing it on Ubuntu would only add unnecessary bloat ; just give people something like Parted Magic [ partedmagic.com ] or D @ mn Small Linux ( or something similar with maybe a more appropriate name for banks ) and do n't reinvent the wheel .
" Can Ubuntu save online baking ?
" why not " can Linux save online banking " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is Ubuntu so synonymous with Linux?
Don't people know there are alternatives, or are they all too "geeky" for normal users?
I've tried lots of Linux distributions and they're all very nice and usable.
Couldn't they base this on Debian, or Fedora, or even just make their own distribution?
Basing it on Ubuntu would only add unnecessary bloat; just give people something like Parted Magic [partedmagic.com] or D@mn Small Linux (or something similar with maybe a more appropriate name for banks) and don't reinvent the wheel.
"Can Ubuntu save online baking?
" why not "can Linux save online banking"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619830</id>
	<title>Reply</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269522180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>(But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?)</em></p><p>What do you mean, like a disk that would boot Microsoft Windows instead?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks ?
) What do you mean , like a disk that would boot Microsoft Windows instead ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(But what if someone slips in a stack of doctored disks?
)What do you mean, like a disk that would boot Microsoft Windows instead?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621080</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269530280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of a $50 piece of hardware give out those RSA keyfobs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of a $ 50 piece of hardware give out those RSA keyfobs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of a $50 piece of hardware give out those RSA keyfobs</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31636492</id>
	<title>Whatever Happened To..</title>
	<author>cavebison</author>
	<datestamp>1269622200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The concept of biometrics? Don't most notebooks nowadays have a fingerprint scanner? Why aren't the banks (or any such site) using that? It's such a common thing now, at least for laptops. It should at least be an option. I don't mean the provided PC s/ware which manages your passwords, I mean something like a Flash(?) app which communicates your swipe directly to the site.</p><p>Or did biometrics become redundant since the swipe data can still be phished anyway? So for Web stuff it's really no more protection than a typed password?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The concept of biometrics ?
Do n't most notebooks nowadays have a fingerprint scanner ?
Why are n't the banks ( or any such site ) using that ?
It 's such a common thing now , at least for laptops .
It should at least be an option .
I do n't mean the provided PC s/ware which manages your passwords , I mean something like a Flash ( ?
) app which communicates your swipe directly to the site.Or did biometrics become redundant since the swipe data can still be phished anyway ?
So for Web stuff it 's really no more protection than a typed password ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The concept of biometrics?
Don't most notebooks nowadays have a fingerprint scanner?
Why aren't the banks (or any such site) using that?
It's such a common thing now, at least for laptops.
It should at least be an option.
I don't mean the provided PC s/ware which manages your passwords, I mean something like a Flash(?
) app which communicates your swipe directly to the site.Or did biometrics become redundant since the swipe data can still be phished anyway?
So for Web stuff it's really no more protection than a typed password?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621988</id>
	<title>Who the heck is CPL?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269538140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From time to time an article in Slashdot makes me wonder If anyone knows the rules for reporting.  This article is about CPL whomever that is and where ever they are located.  This may be totally meaningless if CPL turns out to be Citrul Pulp Lendin in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.  They would only need to produce 150 CD's to blanket their clients.  The fact that the author doesn't bother to identify them means that where ever the author lives they are popular and well known.</p><p>I am now curious as to who and where they are.   Please drop a post with a proper name and or location.  And remember if I was too stupid to know where they are I'll be too stupid to get your flames - so save em.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From time to time an article in Slashdot makes me wonder If anyone knows the rules for reporting .
This article is about CPL whomever that is and where ever they are located .
This may be totally meaningless if CPL turns out to be Citrul Pulp Lendin in Ft. Lauderdale , Florida .
They would only need to produce 150 CD 's to blanket their clients .
The fact that the author does n't bother to identify them means that where ever the author lives they are popular and well known.I am now curious as to who and where they are .
Please drop a post with a proper name and or location .
And remember if I was too stupid to know where they are I 'll be too stupid to get your flames - so save em .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From time to time an article in Slashdot makes me wonder If anyone knows the rules for reporting.
This article is about CPL whomever that is and where ever they are located.
This may be totally meaningless if CPL turns out to be Citrul Pulp Lendin in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
They would only need to produce 150 CD's to blanket their clients.
The fact that the author doesn't bother to identify them means that where ever the author lives they are popular and well known.I am now curious as to who and where they are.
Please drop a post with a proper name and or location.
And remember if I was too stupid to know where they are I'll be too stupid to get your flames - so save em.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31625688</id>
	<title>Software gets old fast</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269616320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd be worried about people having old versions of the software.  The live CD can't be updated, so if Ubuntu or FF became susceptible to a DNS attack, or Man in the middle, or SSL hack, the customer would forever have this flawed version.  Average Joe user probably would hold onto the first disk they received for a long long time.   Even if the bank kept sending them a new one every month most people would probably get confused and lose a few of them (I know I have problems keeping my bank statements in order).</p><p>And as somebody else already pointed out, a good social scammer will send out bogus CDs labeled "New Improved Security Version" that really contains a Trojan.</p><p>The netbook idea has merit.  A dedicated and cheap machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd be worried about people having old versions of the software .
The live CD ca n't be updated , so if Ubuntu or FF became susceptible to a DNS attack , or Man in the middle , or SSL hack , the customer would forever have this flawed version .
Average Joe user probably would hold onto the first disk they received for a long long time .
Even if the bank kept sending them a new one every month most people would probably get confused and lose a few of them ( I know I have problems keeping my bank statements in order ) .And as somebody else already pointed out , a good social scammer will send out bogus CDs labeled " New Improved Security Version " that really contains a Trojan.The netbook idea has merit .
A dedicated and cheap machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd be worried about people having old versions of the software.
The live CD can't be updated, so if Ubuntu or FF became susceptible to a DNS attack, or Man in the middle, or SSL hack, the customer would forever have this flawed version.
Average Joe user probably would hold onto the first disk they received for a long long time.
Even if the bank kept sending them a new one every month most people would probably get confused and lose a few of them (I know I have problems keeping my bank statements in order).And as somebody else already pointed out, a good social scammer will send out bogus CDs labeled "New Improved Security Version" that really contains a Trojan.The netbook idea has merit.
A dedicated and cheap machine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620400</id>
	<title>That was my first thought, but.</title>
	<author>dreamchaser</author>
	<datestamp>1269525600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was my first thought, but I'm also old enough to remember having to drive to the bank and wait in line.  It's far more convenient to reboot with a CD in your PC than it is to go to even an ATM machine.  With the proper marketing this could go a long way towards reducing online fraud.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was my first thought , but I 'm also old enough to remember having to drive to the bank and wait in line .
It 's far more convenient to reboot with a CD in your PC than it is to go to even an ATM machine .
With the proper marketing this could go a long way towards reducing online fraud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was my first thought, but I'm also old enough to remember having to drive to the bank and wait in line.
It's far more convenient to reboot with a CD in your PC than it is to go to even an ATM machine.
With the proper marketing this could go a long way towards reducing online fraud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622628</id>
	<title>No thanks, one lost customer</title>
	<author>pmontra</author>
	<datestamp>1269546060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I won't reboot my computer each time I have to connect to my bank. I'd move my money to another bank with a more convenient online banking instead.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wo n't reboot my computer each time I have to connect to my bank .
I 'd move my money to another bank with a more convenient online banking instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I won't reboot my computer each time I have to connect to my bank.
I'd move my money to another bank with a more convenient online banking instead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624388</id>
	<title>Tiny Core Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269609240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would be much better. Boots instantly and uses vesa driver by default.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would be much better .
Boots instantly and uses vesa driver by default .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would be much better.
Boots instantly and uses vesa driver by default.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620492</id>
	<title>Meanwhile....back at the ranch</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1269526200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft has cut a deal with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China\_Construction\_Bank" title="wikipedia.org">China Construction Bank,</a> [wikipedia.org] the second largest bank in the world [by market capitalization.]</p><p> <i>Microsoft China on March 23 inked a MoU with China Construction Bank, the nation's biggest real estate and mortgage lender, on strategic cooperation.</i></p><p><i>Under the MoU, both sides will build a new generation online banking IE browser on the base of Windows Internet Explorer. In addition, they will jointly solve problems regarding to certificate management, browser safety monitor system allocation, multi-language version and etc. The new generation USB Key will own non-clink consumer installment function.</i></p><p><i>CCB expects to top China's online banking market and the cooperation with Microsoft will help improve its online banking service further, said Fan Yifei, vice president of the bank. Microsoft will continue boosting China's online banking market, pointed out Simon L. K. Leung, chairman and president of the company for the Greater China region.</i></p><p><i> Actually, it is not the first time for the Chinese bank to cooperate with Microsoft. In order to promote online banking software, Microsoft cooperated with a list of commercial banks in China before the launch of Windows 7 and CCB is one of the latter.</i> </p><p> <a href="http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/cichf\_microsoft-ccb-to-build-special-ie-browser-868036.html" title="tradingmarkets.com">Microsoft, CCB to Build Special IE Browser</a> [tradingmarkets.com] </p><p>CCB has 16,000 domestic branches, and has expanded overseas to Singapore, Frankfurt, Johannesburg, Tokyo and Seoul. In June 2009, CCB opened its New York Branch and a wholly-owned subsidiary in London.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft has cut a deal with China Construction Bank , [ wikipedia.org ] the second largest bank in the world [ by market capitalization .
] Microsoft China on March 23 inked a MoU with China Construction Bank , the nation 's biggest real estate and mortgage lender , on strategic cooperation.Under the MoU , both sides will build a new generation online banking IE browser on the base of Windows Internet Explorer .
In addition , they will jointly solve problems regarding to certificate management , browser safety monitor system allocation , multi-language version and etc .
The new generation USB Key will own non-clink consumer installment function.CCB expects to top China 's online banking market and the cooperation with Microsoft will help improve its online banking service further , said Fan Yifei , vice president of the bank .
Microsoft will continue boosting China 's online banking market , pointed out Simon L. K. Leung , chairman and president of the company for the Greater China region .
Actually , it is not the first time for the Chinese bank to cooperate with Microsoft .
In order to promote online banking software , Microsoft cooperated with a list of commercial banks in China before the launch of Windows 7 and CCB is one of the latter .
Microsoft , CCB to Build Special IE Browser [ tradingmarkets.com ] CCB has 16,000 domestic branches , and has expanded overseas to Singapore , Frankfurt , Johannesburg , Tokyo and Seoul .
In June 2009 , CCB opened its New York Branch and a wholly-owned subsidiary in London .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft has cut a deal with China Construction Bank, [wikipedia.org] the second largest bank in the world [by market capitalization.
] Microsoft China on March 23 inked a MoU with China Construction Bank, the nation's biggest real estate and mortgage lender, on strategic cooperation.Under the MoU, both sides will build a new generation online banking IE browser on the base of Windows Internet Explorer.
In addition, they will jointly solve problems regarding to certificate management, browser safety monitor system allocation, multi-language version and etc.
The new generation USB Key will own non-clink consumer installment function.CCB expects to top China's online banking market and the cooperation with Microsoft will help improve its online banking service further, said Fan Yifei, vice president of the bank.
Microsoft will continue boosting China's online banking market, pointed out Simon L. K. Leung, chairman and president of the company for the Greater China region.
Actually, it is not the first time for the Chinese bank to cooperate with Microsoft.
In order to promote online banking software, Microsoft cooperated with a list of commercial banks in China before the launch of Windows 7 and CCB is one of the latter.
Microsoft, CCB to Build Special IE Browser [tradingmarkets.com] CCB has 16,000 domestic branches, and has expanded overseas to Singapore, Frankfurt, Johannesburg, Tokyo and Seoul.
In June 2009, CCB opened its New York Branch and a wholly-owned subsidiary in London.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621332</id>
	<title>In addition to the usual security measures...</title>
	<author>hyades1</author>
	<datestamp>1269532440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...I copy/paste a bank URL from one of several saved text files.  I copy/paste my password from the right spot in one of several other text files.  Same thing for account number with a couple of added things I'm not going to discuss. </p><p> I suppose something that could do screen captures (without showing up in a program called Process Explorer) could still take down my pants.  I'm not too worried, though. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...I copy/paste a bank URL from one of several saved text files .
I copy/paste my password from the right spot in one of several other text files .
Same thing for account number with a couple of added things I 'm not going to discuss .
I suppose something that could do screen captures ( without showing up in a program called Process Explorer ) could still take down my pants .
I 'm not too worried , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...I copy/paste a bank URL from one of several saved text files.
I copy/paste my password from the right spot in one of several other text files.
Same thing for account number with a couple of added things I'm not going to discuss.
I suppose something that could do screen captures (without showing up in a program called Process Explorer) could still take down my pants.
I'm not too worried, though. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620716</id>
	<title>Re:VMWare alternative</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269527580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The guest is not safe from the host. I have no idea where people get this idea, but it is stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The guest is not safe from the host .
I have no idea where people get this idea , but it is stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guest is not safe from the host.
I have no idea where people get this idea, but it is stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620796</id>
	<title>Re:VMWare alternative</title>
	<author>ashridah</author>
	<datestamp>1269528180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While a nice idea, initially, this doesn't actually solve the problem.</p><p>A Virtual Machine may be unable to penetrate the Host, but the same is *not* true of the Host being able to penetrate the VM. If someone has system level access on the host, and they know the bank uses the VM to start up a "safe" environment, they can just patch the vmd/vhd on disk, on the fly as it's being read, in memory, or attack the VM's memory itself, etc. This, while technically complex, is not really a difficult one to overcome.</p><p>Realistically, the only way to guarantee saftey while banking is to guarantee that the entire stack is legitimate from the ground up. A bootable USB key is okay, but then, what if the user accidentally leaves it plugged in (worm checks for, finds, and then patches usb key to install itself into environment)<br>Read-only media provides a reasonable solution, but then, there goes the user's ability to safely save stuff (tax reports, expense records, whatever)</p><p>Sadly, this looks like it'll be one of those painful conveinence vs security tradeoffs that're probably just going to remain something that insurance and bank fees deal with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While a nice idea , initially , this does n't actually solve the problem.A Virtual Machine may be unable to penetrate the Host , but the same is * not * true of the Host being able to penetrate the VM .
If someone has system level access on the host , and they know the bank uses the VM to start up a " safe " environment , they can just patch the vmd/vhd on disk , on the fly as it 's being read , in memory , or attack the VM 's memory itself , etc .
This , while technically complex , is not really a difficult one to overcome.Realistically , the only way to guarantee saftey while banking is to guarantee that the entire stack is legitimate from the ground up .
A bootable USB key is okay , but then , what if the user accidentally leaves it plugged in ( worm checks for , finds , and then patches usb key to install itself into environment ) Read-only media provides a reasonable solution , but then , there goes the user 's ability to safely save stuff ( tax reports , expense records , whatever ) Sadly , this looks like it 'll be one of those painful conveinence vs security tradeoffs that 're probably just going to remain something that insurance and bank fees deal with : (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While a nice idea, initially, this doesn't actually solve the problem.A Virtual Machine may be unable to penetrate the Host, but the same is *not* true of the Host being able to penetrate the VM.
If someone has system level access on the host, and they know the bank uses the VM to start up a "safe" environment, they can just patch the vmd/vhd on disk, on the fly as it's being read, in memory, or attack the VM's memory itself, etc.
This, while technically complex, is not really a difficult one to overcome.Realistically, the only way to guarantee saftey while banking is to guarantee that the entire stack is legitimate from the ground up.
A bootable USB key is okay, but then, what if the user accidentally leaves it plugged in (worm checks for, finds, and then patches usb key to install itself into environment)Read-only media provides a reasonable solution, but then, there goes the user's ability to safely save stuff (tax reports, expense records, whatever)Sadly, this looks like it'll be one of those painful conveinence vs security tradeoffs that're probably just going to remain something that insurance and bank fees deal with :(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622126</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269539460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They could put tellers in banks.</p><p>Don't mod me funny, I'm serious.  Genuine human beings. Ones that recognize the banks clients and look out for their best intests. Pay these "tellers" a livable wage and perhaps give them some potential for personal and career growth.  Offset that with a small service fee and its a win/win for everyone involved. Not to mention it would help the economy out of its slump</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They could put tellers in banks.Do n't mod me funny , I 'm serious .
Genuine human beings .
Ones that recognize the banks clients and look out for their best intests .
Pay these " tellers " a livable wage and perhaps give them some potential for personal and career growth .
Offset that with a small service fee and its a win/win for everyone involved .
Not to mention it would help the economy out of its slump</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They could put tellers in banks.Don't mod me funny, I'm serious.
Genuine human beings.
Ones that recognize the banks clients and look out for their best intests.
Pay these "tellers" a livable wage and perhaps give them some potential for personal and career growth.
Offset that with a small service fee and its a win/win for everyone involved.
Not to mention it would help the economy out of its slump</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621250</id>
	<title>Re:Brillant!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269531720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the volume of people owned by fake discs would be how many orders of magnitude smaller than the number owned with our current system, especially since it involves not only creating and distributing physical media (with non-zero cost!), but may also potentially involve sneaking said media into an area with security cameras or falsifying the media as mailed from the bank?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the volume of people owned by fake discs would be how many orders of magnitude smaller than the number owned with our current system , especially since it involves not only creating and distributing physical media ( with non-zero cost !
) , but may also potentially involve sneaking said media into an area with security cameras or falsifying the media as mailed from the bank ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the volume of people owned by fake discs would be how many orders of magnitude smaller than the number owned with our current system, especially since it involves not only creating and distributing physical media (with non-zero cost!
), but may also potentially involve sneaking said media into an area with security cameras or falsifying the media as mailed from the bank?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624222</id>
	<title>The other side of the connection</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1269607920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I looked at my small town bank's online offering, and the amateurish site looks like it was probably done by the bank manager's brother-in-law over a weekend between six-packs, using the finest swiss-cheese Microsoft has to offer.  I'll be sticking with dead trees for now.<br> <br>I love tech, but committing to all-electronic financial transactions with no actual paper just feels like it could go very, very wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I looked at my small town bank 's online offering , and the amateurish site looks like it was probably done by the bank manager 's brother-in-law over a weekend between six-packs , using the finest swiss-cheese Microsoft has to offer .
I 'll be sticking with dead trees for now .
I love tech , but committing to all-electronic financial transactions with no actual paper just feels like it could go very , very wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I looked at my small town bank's online offering, and the amateurish site looks like it was probably done by the bank manager's brother-in-law over a weekend between six-packs, using the finest swiss-cheese Microsoft has to offer.
I'll be sticking with dead trees for now.
I love tech, but committing to all-electronic financial transactions with no actual paper just feels like it could go very, very wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620138</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1269523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD."</p><p>How many netbooks actually come with an optical drive?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD .
" How many netbooks actually come with an optical drive ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"They could ship you a free NetBook w/ CD.
"How many netbooks actually come with an optical drive?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620124</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Temporary password is pointless, if the PC is infected it could use the bank website after you login for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Temporary password is pointless , if the PC is infected it could use the bank website after you login for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Temporary password is pointless, if the PC is infected it could use the bank website after you login for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620722</id>
	<title>Virtual Machine?</title>
	<author>dspratomo</author>
	<datestamp>1269527700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Better yet, is it possible to create a cd with virtual machine or emulator that could be bootable OR just run from windows automatically? and run a minimal linux/BSD distro, directly to a web browser, to the banks' website.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Better yet , is it possible to create a cd with virtual machine or emulator that could be bootable OR just run from windows automatically ?
and run a minimal linux/BSD distro , directly to a web browser , to the banks ' website .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better yet, is it possible to create a cd with virtual machine or emulator that could be bootable OR just run from windows automatically?
and run a minimal linux/BSD distro, directly to a web browser, to the banks' website.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31626390</id>
	<title>It Would Work Great.....</title>
	<author>RobDude</author>
	<datestamp>1269618780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right up until someone actually tried to use it.</p><p>Then you've got bank staff trying to step 'Grandma RobDude' through downloading the windows driver for her wireless card, installing ndiswrapper, and then you still have to explain to her that, since her wireless card isn't 'good', at best, even with all the hacking, she can't enable any encryption on her wifi.</p><p>Which pretty much defeats the whole, 'it would be more secure' angle.</p><p>And for the record; I'm not trolling.  I'm a computer programmer, reasonably tech savvy, and I've tried to install two different versions of Ubuntu in the last two years.  Both resulted in multiple pages on the Ubuntu forums and ultimately ended with 'Well, ummmm, buy something new!'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right up until someone actually tried to use it.Then you 've got bank staff trying to step 'Grandma RobDude ' through downloading the windows driver for her wireless card , installing ndiswrapper , and then you still have to explain to her that , since her wireless card is n't 'good ' , at best , even with all the hacking , she ca n't enable any encryption on her wifi.Which pretty much defeats the whole , 'it would be more secure ' angle.And for the record ; I 'm not trolling .
I 'm a computer programmer , reasonably tech savvy , and I 've tried to install two different versions of Ubuntu in the last two years .
Both resulted in multiple pages on the Ubuntu forums and ultimately ended with 'Well , ummmm , buy something new !
' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right up until someone actually tried to use it.Then you've got bank staff trying to step 'Grandma RobDude' through downloading the windows driver for her wireless card, installing ndiswrapper, and then you still have to explain to her that, since her wireless card isn't 'good', at best, even with all the hacking, she can't enable any encryption on her wifi.Which pretty much defeats the whole, 'it would be more secure' angle.And for the record; I'm not trolling.
I'm a computer programmer, reasonably tech savvy, and I've tried to install two different versions of Ubuntu in the last two years.
Both resulted in multiple pages on the Ubuntu forums and ultimately ended with 'Well, ummmm, buy something new!
'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620204</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The LT2016u is $149 after $100 mail in rebate and only with a 2 year Verizon subscription. That's actually expensive.</p><p>For a price point around $100 without cross financing, you'd have to look at ARM netbooks with 800x480 screens. That would be sufficient for online banking, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The LT2016u is $ 149 after $ 100 mail in rebate and only with a 2 year Verizon subscription .
That 's actually expensive.For a price point around $ 100 without cross financing , you 'd have to look at ARM netbooks with 800x480 screens .
That would be sufficient for online banking , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The LT2016u is $149 after $100 mail in rebate and only with a 2 year Verizon subscription.
That's actually expensive.For a price point around $100 without cross financing, you'd have to look at ARM netbooks with 800x480 screens.
That would be sufficient for online banking, of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621260</id>
	<title>Atari cartridge</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1269531840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People 'got' the idea of a cartridge - you had a home appliance, that did a number of interesting things, based on physical actions you took.  Nowadays with any modern OS, there's so much background crap, nobody really knows what their computer does.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People 'got ' the idea of a cartridge - you had a home appliance , that did a number of interesting things , based on physical actions you took .
Nowadays with any modern OS , there 's so much background crap , nobody really knows what their computer does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People 'got' the idea of a cartridge - you had a home appliance, that did a number of interesting things, based on physical actions you took.
Nowadays with any modern OS, there's so much background crap, nobody really knows what their computer does.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622870</id>
	<title>Re:Answers to Common Questions</title>
	<author>cheros</author>
	<datestamp>1269635880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're solving the wrong problem.  It's a good way to reduce the trojan impact on banking, but authentication and authorisation are not adequately covered so you'd still need extra gear, and this solution is not very portable.</p><p>There are <a href="http://houppermans.com/syblog/five-questions-for-your-internet-bank.html" title="houppermans.com">5 questions to answer</a> [houppermans.com] for Internet banking, and with the right technology the OS can become almost immaterial.</p><p>But let's look at the positive side.  At least someone is getting beyond "it's your problem and our gadget covers *our* risk adequately".  That is worth encouraging.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're solving the wrong problem .
It 's a good way to reduce the trojan impact on banking , but authentication and authorisation are not adequately covered so you 'd still need extra gear , and this solution is not very portable.There are 5 questions to answer [ houppermans.com ] for Internet banking , and with the right technology the OS can become almost immaterial.But let 's look at the positive side .
At least someone is getting beyond " it 's your problem and our gadget covers * our * risk adequately " .
That is worth encouraging .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're solving the wrong problem.
It's a good way to reduce the trojan impact on banking, but authentication and authorisation are not adequately covered so you'd still need extra gear, and this solution is not very portable.There are 5 questions to answer [houppermans.com] for Internet banking, and with the right technology the OS can become almost immaterial.But let's look at the positive side.
At least someone is getting beyond "it's your problem and our gadget covers *our* risk adequately".
That is worth encouraging.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620282</id>
	<title>Online banking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when does online banking need saving?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when does online banking need saving ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when does online banking need saving?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620148</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269523920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just some practical problems:</p><p>
&nbsp; * What keyboard layout do I have? Man, I just want to send my mate $10!<br>
&nbsp; * What the was that automatically generated secure WPA2-PSK code?!<br>
&nbsp; * It hasn't remembered my username, it knew my username before! Gack, the rent is already overdue!</p><p>And I guess people would rather complain to their bank about these issues then help resolve them, participating in the friendly Ubuntu community. Of course they shouldn't have to and most probably won't, but we probably won't see any bank fixing bugs on Launchpad either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just some practical problems :   * What keyboard layout do I have ?
Man , I just want to send my mate $ 10 !
  * What the was that automatically generated secure WPA2-PSK code ? !
  * It has n't remembered my username , it knew my username before !
Gack , the rent is already overdue ! And I guess people would rather complain to their bank about these issues then help resolve them , participating in the friendly Ubuntu community .
Of course they should n't have to and most probably wo n't , but we probably wo n't see any bank fixing bugs on Launchpad either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just some practical problems:
  * What keyboard layout do I have?
Man, I just want to send my mate $10!
  * What the was that automatically generated secure WPA2-PSK code?!
  * It hasn't remembered my username, it knew my username before!
Gack, the rent is already overdue!And I guess people would rather complain to their bank about these issues then help resolve them, participating in the friendly Ubuntu community.
Of course they shouldn't have to and most probably won't, but we probably won't see any bank fixing bugs on Launchpad either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622064</id>
	<title>Online banking *IS* already saved...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269538860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In some Europeans countries online banking *IS* already saved by providing users a physical device, a "security token" / "challenge thinggy".</p><p>You want to make a wire transfer to a new bank account number (one that you've never wired money to previously)?  Well, you're sorry-out-of-luck unless you *ENTER THE BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER IN THE CRYPTOGRAPHIC DEVICE* and send the generated number back to the bank.</p><p>There is *NOTHING* that can break that as long as the user knows that it must enter the bank account number where he plans to send money to: and the user *can* be educated to do that.</p><p>Heck, next gen cryptographic device could have a "click here then enter recipient bank account number" button to make the intent even clearer (it is sure clear to me and lowlifes have it in the arse for I know how the thing works and there's no way I'll be deceived in entering a bank account number in the token that is not the one I plan to wire money to).</p><p>The day it becomes really a problem, such cryptographic device with a huge button "CLICK THIS BUTTON THEN ENTER BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER OF THE PERSON YOU WANT TO SEND MONEY TO (AND ***NOT*** ANY OTHER NUMBER)" will become common place.</p><p>And lowlifes will have a *very* hard time around that one: because the bank won't make any transfer to an account number which hasn't been entered in the cryptographic device (they can verify that, it's the whole point of these challenge/response cryptographic devices).</p><p>I hope they enjoy their lowlife while their scheme work.</p><p>The counter is here and it shall get widespread.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In some Europeans countries online banking * IS * already saved by providing users a physical device , a " security token " / " challenge thinggy " .You want to make a wire transfer to a new bank account number ( one that you 've never wired money to previously ) ?
Well , you 're sorry-out-of-luck unless you * ENTER THE BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER IN THE CRYPTOGRAPHIC DEVICE * and send the generated number back to the bank.There is * NOTHING * that can break that as long as the user knows that it must enter the bank account number where he plans to send money to : and the user * can * be educated to do that.Heck , next gen cryptographic device could have a " click here then enter recipient bank account number " button to make the intent even clearer ( it is sure clear to me and lowlifes have it in the arse for I know how the thing works and there 's no way I 'll be deceived in entering a bank account number in the token that is not the one I plan to wire money to ) .The day it becomes really a problem , such cryptographic device with a huge button " CLICK THIS BUTTON THEN ENTER BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER OF THE PERSON YOU WANT TO SEND MONEY TO ( AND * * * NOT * * * ANY OTHER NUMBER ) " will become common place.And lowlifes will have a * very * hard time around that one : because the bank wo n't make any transfer to an account number which has n't been entered in the cryptographic device ( they can verify that , it 's the whole point of these challenge/response cryptographic devices ) .I hope they enjoy their lowlife while their scheme work.The counter is here and it shall get widespread .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In some Europeans countries online banking *IS* already saved by providing users a physical device, a "security token" / "challenge thinggy".You want to make a wire transfer to a new bank account number (one that you've never wired money to previously)?
Well, you're sorry-out-of-luck unless you *ENTER THE BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER IN THE CRYPTOGRAPHIC DEVICE* and send the generated number back to the bank.There is *NOTHING* that can break that as long as the user knows that it must enter the bank account number where he plans to send money to: and the user *can* be educated to do that.Heck, next gen cryptographic device could have a "click here then enter recipient bank account number" button to make the intent even clearer (it is sure clear to me and lowlifes have it in the arse for I know how the thing works and there's no way I'll be deceived in entering a bank account number in the token that is not the one I plan to wire money to).The day it becomes really a problem, such cryptographic device with a huge button "CLICK THIS BUTTON THEN ENTER BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER OF THE PERSON YOU WANT TO SEND MONEY TO (AND ***NOT*** ANY OTHER NUMBER)" will become common place.And lowlifes will have a *very* hard time around that one: because the bank won't make any transfer to an account number which hasn't been entered in the cryptographic device (they can verify that, it's the whole point of these challenge/response cryptographic devices).I hope they enjoy their lowlife while their scheme work.The counter is here and it shall get widespread.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620314</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269525000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh god, why? Talk about over-engineering and waste of money and resources.</p><p>Just send an SMS for any operation over X dollars and send the netbooks to some poor kids.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh god , why ?
Talk about over-engineering and waste of money and resources.Just send an SMS for any operation over X dollars and send the netbooks to some poor kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh god, why?
Talk about over-engineering and waste of money and resources.Just send an SMS for any operation over X dollars and send the netbooks to some poor kids.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620406</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>anarche</author>
	<datestamp>1269525660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OnLine banking user: "Wha? Hey, come back with my netbook you freak!"</p><p>OnLine banking user2: "No officer, there doesn't seem to be anything missing, but my door has been broken down, and my netbook moved..."</p><p>Seriously, good way to make people easy targets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OnLine banking user : " Wha ?
Hey , come back with my netbook you freak !
" OnLine banking user2 : " No officer , there does n't seem to be anything missing , but my door has been broken down , and my netbook moved... " Seriously , good way to make people easy targets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OnLine banking user: "Wha?
Hey, come back with my netbook you freak!
"OnLine banking user2: "No officer, there doesn't seem to be anything missing, but my door has been broken down, and my netbook moved..."Seriously, good way to make people easy targets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31625586</id>
	<title>Re:FFS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269615960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anon because I moderated.</p><p>I think the downside to this is in the cost.  We use tokens here to authenticate vpn connections and we pay about $50 each.  They last a few years, but it's still more expensive than having a cd pressed.</p><p>Granted, we're probably being shafted by Checkpoint on the price, but unless a bank wants to engineer these, I think any supplier will see fifty cents worth of plastic and lcd as a premium-markup opportunity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anon because I moderated.I think the downside to this is in the cost .
We use tokens here to authenticate vpn connections and we pay about $ 50 each .
They last a few years , but it 's still more expensive than having a cd pressed.Granted , we 're probably being shafted by Checkpoint on the price , but unless a bank wants to engineer these , I think any supplier will see fifty cents worth of plastic and lcd as a premium-markup opportunity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anon because I moderated.I think the downside to this is in the cost.
We use tokens here to authenticate vpn connections and we pay about $50 each.
They last a few years, but it's still more expensive than having a cd pressed.Granted, we're probably being shafted by Checkpoint on the price, but unless a bank wants to engineer these, I think any supplier will see fifty cents worth of plastic and lcd as a premium-markup opportunity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620792</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620832</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting, but what about users?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269528420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you are still using a bank that provides only static username/password authentication, you and your bank are completely unconscious.<br> <br>

The minimal level of safety any bank should offer these days is seeded password, and even that is seriously weak in the long run. Demand 2FA authentication. Write letters, complain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are still using a bank that provides only static username/password authentication , you and your bank are completely unconscious .
The minimal level of safety any bank should offer these days is seeded password , and even that is seriously weak in the long run .
Demand 2FA authentication .
Write letters , complain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are still using a bank that provides only static username/password authentication, you and your bank are completely unconscious.
The minimal level of safety any bank should offer these days is seeded password, and even that is seriously weak in the long run.
Demand 2FA authentication.
Write letters, complain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31632612</id>
	<title>Re:The disk is a token? and etc. vs et al.</title>
	<author>Nalgas D. Lemur</author>
	<datestamp>1269598500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, just thought you might like to know... Et al. is short for et alii and translates literally as, "with others." etc. is short for et cetera and translates roughly as, "with other objects". There is a people/things distinction. So if the other stuff is people, "et al." and if the other stuff is things, "etc.".</p></div><p>It's probably more accurate to say "and" instead of "with" (which is where the ampersand came from; if you look at it, you can sort of see how it came from smooshing an e and t together, and you'll occasionally see "&amp;c" as an abbreviation for "et cetera", usually in older documents), but yeah, that's a good distinction to at least be aware of (and which I sadly forget about and am not in the habit of using "et al." consistently).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , just thought you might like to know... Et al .
is short for et alii and translates literally as , " with others .
" etc .
is short for et cetera and translates roughly as , " with other objects " .
There is a people/things distinction .
So if the other stuff is people , " et al .
" and if the other stuff is things , " etc .
" .It 's probably more accurate to say " and " instead of " with " ( which is where the ampersand came from ; if you look at it , you can sort of see how it came from smooshing an e and t together , and you 'll occasionally see " &amp;c " as an abbreviation for " et cetera " , usually in older documents ) , but yeah , that 's a good distinction to at least be aware of ( and which I sadly forget about and am not in the habit of using " et al .
" consistently ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, just thought you might like to know... Et al.
is short for et alii and translates literally as, "with others.
" etc.
is short for et cetera and translates roughly as, "with other objects".
There is a people/things distinction.
So if the other stuff is people, "et al.
" and if the other stuff is things, "etc.
".It's probably more accurate to say "and" instead of "with" (which is where the ampersand came from; if you look at it, you can sort of see how it came from smooshing an e and t together, and you'll occasionally see "&amp;c" as an abbreviation for "et cetera", usually in older documents), but yeah, that's a good distinction to at least be aware of (and which I sadly forget about and am not in the habit of using "et al.
" consistently).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620936</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>failedlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1269529020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like where your argument is headed, but I think there is a much simpler way to do this without ever having to call a telephone. It will still use the much less complicated CD method and will make an extra source of revenue for the bank. What is it?</p><p>Only one login-in per CD - you can only use the CD once and then CD expires. You need to keep these CDs secure and when you want to log in and you're out of CDs - you only have to order more CDs.</p><p>Since the CD has a custom build OS, it should be set at a reasonable price to account for the fact an OS is on the CD. $20 wouldn't be a bad deal. And you don't have to worry about remembering tricky passwords or key phrases.</p><p>You just might have to work a few more hours to make up for this convenience. But for any items of convenience, when do we not spend money?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like where your argument is headed , but I think there is a much simpler way to do this without ever having to call a telephone .
It will still use the much less complicated CD method and will make an extra source of revenue for the bank .
What is it ? Only one login-in per CD - you can only use the CD once and then CD expires .
You need to keep these CDs secure and when you want to log in and you 're out of CDs - you only have to order more CDs.Since the CD has a custom build OS , it should be set at a reasonable price to account for the fact an OS is on the CD .
$ 20 would n't be a bad deal .
And you do n't have to worry about remembering tricky passwords or key phrases.You just might have to work a few more hours to make up for this convenience .
But for any items of convenience , when do we not spend money ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like where your argument is headed, but I think there is a much simpler way to do this without ever having to call a telephone.
It will still use the much less complicated CD method and will make an extra source of revenue for the bank.
What is it?Only one login-in per CD - you can only use the CD once and then CD expires.
You need to keep these CDs secure and when you want to log in and you're out of CDs - you only have to order more CDs.Since the CD has a custom build OS, it should be set at a reasonable price to account for the fact an OS is on the CD.
$20 wouldn't be a bad deal.
And you don't have to worry about remembering tricky passwords or key phrases.You just might have to work a few more hours to make up for this convenience.
But for any items of convenience, when do we not spend money?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31653464</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>initialE</author>
	<datestamp>1269799500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah but the wireless. Isn't wireless support still abysmal in Linux? Your desktop PC may manage to connect using your livecd. Maybe not so your notebook, netbook, or desktop with only wireless networking. And imagine having to hack your wireless every time you boot up into online banking - the settings are never saved anywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but the wireless .
Is n't wireless support still abysmal in Linux ?
Your desktop PC may manage to connect using your livecd .
Maybe not so your notebook , netbook , or desktop with only wireless networking .
And imagine having to hack your wireless every time you boot up into online banking - the settings are never saved anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but the wireless.
Isn't wireless support still abysmal in Linux?
Your desktop PC may manage to connect using your livecd.
Maybe not so your notebook, netbook, or desktop with only wireless networking.
And imagine having to hack your wireless every time you boot up into online banking - the settings are never saved anywhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624638</id>
	<title>What about processing your banking data?</title>
	<author>Bearhouse</author>
	<datestamp>1269611040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Regarding the 'reboot' arguement, I guess that if you're smart enough to be using your PC to do online banking, then you should be smart enough to figure out how to reboot from a live CD.</p><p>My main point tho; Many people using online banking, via their PCs, also use their banking data; ranges from simply reconciling stuff in Excel to complete software packages...<br>Would the liveCD provide access to USB or other storage, (thus risking compromising security), for this?<br>Would I be able to logon to my account to retrieve data, using my 'normal' system, but then only make transfers using the liveCD?<br>Sounds complex...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Regarding the 'reboot ' arguement , I guess that if you 're smart enough to be using your PC to do online banking , then you should be smart enough to figure out how to reboot from a live CD.My main point tho ; Many people using online banking , via their PCs , also use their banking data ; ranges from simply reconciling stuff in Excel to complete software packages...Would the liveCD provide access to USB or other storage , ( thus risking compromising security ) , for this ? Would I be able to logon to my account to retrieve data , using my 'normal ' system , but then only make transfers using the liveCD ? Sounds complex.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Regarding the 'reboot' arguement, I guess that if you're smart enough to be using your PC to do online banking, then you should be smart enough to figure out how to reboot from a live CD.My main point tho; Many people using online banking, via their PCs, also use their banking data; ranges from simply reconciling stuff in Excel to complete software packages...Would the liveCD provide access to USB or other storage, (thus risking compromising security), for this?Would I be able to logon to my account to retrieve data, using my 'normal' system, but then only make transfers using the liveCD?Sounds complex...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621908</id>
	<title>Worst Idea Ever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you kidding me?  Can someone tell me what's wrong with simply typing in your bank's url and signing in securely.  Am I missing something?  Is the RSA security used by banks not secure enough or something?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you kidding me ?
Can someone tell me what 's wrong with simply typing in your bank 's url and signing in securely .
Am I missing something ?
Is the RSA security used by banks not secure enough or something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you kidding me?
Can someone tell me what's wrong with simply typing in your bank's url and signing in securely.
Am I missing something?
Is the RSA security used by banks not secure enough or something?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620618</id>
	<title>Short answer:</title>
	<author>Narcocide</author>
	<datestamp>1269526920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No.  Pick Debian.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Pick Debian .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Pick Debian.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621418</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>cosm</author>
	<datestamp>1269533340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Heres the <a href="http://shop.verizonwireless.com/?id=Gateway+LT2016u+Netbook&amp;vendorid=ONLINEMEDIA&amp;index.html&amp;cid=BAC-prodrsch" title="verizonwireless.com"> link</a> [verizonwireless.com]. Thats with a 2 year contract. So naturally its cost is subsidized through the carrier bullshit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Heres the link [ verizonwireless.com ] .
Thats with a 2 year contract .
So naturally its cost is subsidized through the carrier bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heres the  link [verizonwireless.com].
Thats with a 2 year contract.
So naturally its cost is subsidized through the carrier bullshit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621634</id>
	<title>3. Profit</title>
	<author>DavidD\_CA</author>
	<datestamp>1269534660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Get one of this bank's distribution CDs as if I were a customer.</p><p>2. Create an identical copy of it, right down to the packaging, and snail mail it to random old people in Florida.  This version, of course, does what I want with their personal data.</p><p>3. Profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Get one of this bank 's distribution CDs as if I were a customer.2 .
Create an identical copy of it , right down to the packaging , and snail mail it to random old people in Florida .
This version , of course , does what I want with their personal data.3 .
Profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Get one of this bank's distribution CDs as if I were a customer.2.
Create an identical copy of it, right down to the packaging, and snail mail it to random old people in Florida.
This version, of course, does what I want with their personal data.3.
Profit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623216</id>
	<title>WiFi login</title>
	<author>brusk</author>
	<datestamp>1269597360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The biggest extra hassle for me would be the need to log in to my wireless network. I have a long random string as my router's WPA2 password, and would need to type the whole damn thing in every time I booted this thing up, since the CD would have no way of remembering it. Or make the network less secure by choosing a simpler password.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The biggest extra hassle for me would be the need to log in to my wireless network .
I have a long random string as my router 's WPA2 password , and would need to type the whole damn thing in every time I booted this thing up , since the CD would have no way of remembering it .
Or make the network less secure by choosing a simpler password .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The biggest extra hassle for me would be the need to log in to my wireless network.
I have a long random string as my router's WPA2 password, and would need to type the whole damn thing in every time I booted this thing up, since the CD would have no way of remembering it.
Or make the network less secure by choosing a simpler password.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622776</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1269634680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Most people wouldn't hesitate to install an app for this purpose, so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly.</p></div></blockquote><p>

So in other words this will do nothing to help with fraud. Idiot user #333430 will still use the First Morons Bank application published by TheftSoft, not by the bank.<br> <br>

Two factor authentication is the only way to help, as you said as long as the somnabulant users are being told "it's for your own protection" and walked through it they will comply. Most Australian banks already require you to put in a code the bank SMS's you for all external transactions above a certain limit (A$300 for me) NOTE: Here the sender pays for the SMS and we cant fathom why you'd do it the other way around, such a system is clearly designed for abuse. If you don't have a phone or don't like this system you can get a Factor2 RSA token.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people would n't hesitate to install an app for this purpose , so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly .
So in other words this will do nothing to help with fraud .
Idiot user # 333430 will still use the First Morons Bank application published by TheftSoft , not by the bank .
Two factor authentication is the only way to help , as you said as long as the somnabulant users are being told " it 's for your own protection " and walked through it they will comply .
Most Australian banks already require you to put in a code the bank SMS 's you for all external transactions above a certain limit ( A $ 300 for me ) NOTE : Here the sender pays for the SMS and we cant fathom why you 'd do it the other way around , such a system is clearly designed for abuse .
If you do n't have a phone or do n't like this system you can get a Factor2 RSA token .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people wouldn't hesitate to install an app for this purpose, so the Live CD just needs to be marketed properly.
So in other words this will do nothing to help with fraud.
Idiot user #333430 will still use the First Morons Bank application published by TheftSoft, not by the bank.
Two factor authentication is the only way to help, as you said as long as the somnabulant users are being told "it's for your own protection" and walked through it they will comply.
Most Australian banks already require you to put in a code the bank SMS's you for all external transactions above a certain limit (A$300 for me) NOTE: Here the sender pays for the SMS and we cant fathom why you'd do it the other way around, such a system is clearly designed for abuse.
If you don't have a phone or don't like this system you can get a Factor2 RSA token.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624288</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269608400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem being a good fraction of that percentage won't bother with the Live CD, when they can just log in to their internet banking site as standard from Windows.  For this to work 100\% effectively the users would need to be taught the actual risk somehow, to stop them from logging into the bank from their Windows maleware PC, when the can't be bothered to use the disk.  From a risk perspective there's no happy in-between where they can use the disk when it's convinient, or forget about it if they get lazy.</p><p>The obvious solution is to then lock Live CD users out of the standard web-accessible portal, but if done on a per-user-account basis this then creates the problem of how the user gets access from a friends house, work, etc where he can't actually use the Live CD for whatever reason.</p><p>Client side hardware issues asside, a Live CD made by the bank seems like a very good answer to a security problem.  However the task of implimenting this effectively in a live Joe-Sixpack environment is another issue all together, where cost might outweigh the actual benifit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem being a good fraction of that percentage wo n't bother with the Live CD , when they can just log in to their internet banking site as standard from Windows .
For this to work 100 \ % effectively the users would need to be taught the actual risk somehow , to stop them from logging into the bank from their Windows maleware PC , when the ca n't be bothered to use the disk .
From a risk perspective there 's no happy in-between where they can use the disk when it 's convinient , or forget about it if they get lazy.The obvious solution is to then lock Live CD users out of the standard web-accessible portal , but if done on a per-user-account basis this then creates the problem of how the user gets access from a friends house , work , etc where he ca n't actually use the Live CD for whatever reason.Client side hardware issues asside , a Live CD made by the bank seems like a very good answer to a security problem .
However the task of implimenting this effectively in a live Joe-Sixpack environment is another issue all together , where cost might outweigh the actual benifit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem being a good fraction of that percentage won't bother with the Live CD, when they can just log in to their internet banking site as standard from Windows.
For this to work 100\% effectively the users would need to be taught the actual risk somehow, to stop them from logging into the bank from their Windows maleware PC, when the can't be bothered to use the disk.
From a risk perspective there's no happy in-between where they can use the disk when it's convinient, or forget about it if they get lazy.The obvious solution is to then lock Live CD users out of the standard web-accessible portal, but if done on a per-user-account basis this then creates the problem of how the user gets access from a friends house, work, etc where he can't actually use the Live CD for whatever reason.Client side hardware issues asside, a Live CD made by the bank seems like a very good answer to a security problem.
However the task of implimenting this effectively in a live Joe-Sixpack environment is another issue all together, where cost might outweigh the actual benifit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621168</id>
	<title>Why are banks wasting effort on things like this?</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1269531060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are solutions out there for this, all of which will be secure even if someone deliberatly set up a system with the goal of capturing bank account info (such as hacker messing with machines at an internet cafe):<br>Little calculator type devices where you enter transaction details and it gives you a 1-time-use code that goes into the online bank form<br>One-time-use codes sent by SMS or snail mail (or by picking them up directly from the bank)<br>Keyfobs that display codes you enter into your online bank form<br>USB keypads where you enter your ATM PIN (possibly inserting your chip enabled card into it also), the data encrypted by the keypad and sent to your PC via USB that then sends it on to the bank.</p><p>One of the best systems I have seen is PassWindow which doesn't require extra hardware.<br><a href="http://www.passwindow.com/" title="passwindow.com">http://www.passwindow.com/</a> [passwindow.com] (no I have no connection to these guys, I just really like their product and think its far more secure than the methods most banks are trying like challenge questions, pictorial passwords/challenges whilst not having the extra costs of PIN pads, keyfobs or calculator devices. Its more reliable than the one-time use codes (SMSs may not always make it through, people may accidentally erase the SMS and loose the codes, people may misplace the physical letter with the codes on it, whatever)</p><p>And it can work on essentially any device with a full web browser that can display images including mobile phones, games consoles, internet kiosk terminals, locked down corporate PCs</p><p>All of these solutions (with the exception of the USB pin pad) do not require any installation or use of software which mean they can be used for internet cafes/kiosks, locked down corporate PCs or anywhere else where internet access is available but using "unauthorized" software or hardware is not permitted.</p><p>This "live CD" solution will only work in situations where the end user is able to run whatever software they like (and where the PC has an optical drive). And it assumes that the "live CD" has drivers for all the hardware in the PC its being used on (given the state of linux wireless, I doubt its even possible, especially if you need support for WEP, WPA etc)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are solutions out there for this , all of which will be secure even if someone deliberatly set up a system with the goal of capturing bank account info ( such as hacker messing with machines at an internet cafe ) : Little calculator type devices where you enter transaction details and it gives you a 1-time-use code that goes into the online bank formOne-time-use codes sent by SMS or snail mail ( or by picking them up directly from the bank ) Keyfobs that display codes you enter into your online bank formUSB keypads where you enter your ATM PIN ( possibly inserting your chip enabled card into it also ) , the data encrypted by the keypad and sent to your PC via USB that then sends it on to the bank.One of the best systems I have seen is PassWindow which does n't require extra hardware.http : //www.passwindow.com/ [ passwindow.com ] ( no I have no connection to these guys , I just really like their product and think its far more secure than the methods most banks are trying like challenge questions , pictorial passwords/challenges whilst not having the extra costs of PIN pads , keyfobs or calculator devices .
Its more reliable than the one-time use codes ( SMSs may not always make it through , people may accidentally erase the SMS and loose the codes , people may misplace the physical letter with the codes on it , whatever ) And it can work on essentially any device with a full web browser that can display images including mobile phones , games consoles , internet kiosk terminals , locked down corporate PCsAll of these solutions ( with the exception of the USB pin pad ) do not require any installation or use of software which mean they can be used for internet cafes/kiosks , locked down corporate PCs or anywhere else where internet access is available but using " unauthorized " software or hardware is not permitted.This " live CD " solution will only work in situations where the end user is able to run whatever software they like ( and where the PC has an optical drive ) .
And it assumes that the " live CD " has drivers for all the hardware in the PC its being used on ( given the state of linux wireless , I doubt its even possible , especially if you need support for WEP , WPA etc )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are solutions out there for this, all of which will be secure even if someone deliberatly set up a system with the goal of capturing bank account info (such as hacker messing with machines at an internet cafe):Little calculator type devices where you enter transaction details and it gives you a 1-time-use code that goes into the online bank formOne-time-use codes sent by SMS or snail mail (or by picking them up directly from the bank)Keyfobs that display codes you enter into your online bank formUSB keypads where you enter your ATM PIN (possibly inserting your chip enabled card into it also), the data encrypted by the keypad and sent to your PC via USB that then sends it on to the bank.One of the best systems I have seen is PassWindow which doesn't require extra hardware.http://www.passwindow.com/ [passwindow.com] (no I have no connection to these guys, I just really like their product and think its far more secure than the methods most banks are trying like challenge questions, pictorial passwords/challenges whilst not having the extra costs of PIN pads, keyfobs or calculator devices.
Its more reliable than the one-time use codes (SMSs may not always make it through, people may accidentally erase the SMS and loose the codes, people may misplace the physical letter with the codes on it, whatever)And it can work on essentially any device with a full web browser that can display images including mobile phones, games consoles, internet kiosk terminals, locked down corporate PCsAll of these solutions (with the exception of the USB pin pad) do not require any installation or use of software which mean they can be used for internet cafes/kiosks, locked down corporate PCs or anywhere else where internet access is available but using "unauthorized" software or hardware is not permitted.This "live CD" solution will only work in situations where the end user is able to run whatever software they like (and where the PC has an optical drive).
And it assumes that the "live CD" has drivers for all the hardware in the PC its being used on (given the state of linux wireless, I doubt its even possible, especially if you need support for WEP, WPA etc)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620946</id>
	<title>Did something similar in the past</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1269529080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I made something like this in the past just as a proof of concept with openSUSE 11.1 and the use of SUSE Studio.Was not to hard to make and with a bit of effort could be done much better.</p><p>Boots into GUI with Opera as GUI. It was just a proof of concept, because will you trust the following?<br><a href="http://susestudio.com/download/cc685f51db4edb37a6fd7bfc80185da1/houghis\_bank.i686-0.0.5.oem.tar.gz" title="susestudio.com">Disk Image for e.g. USB stick</a> [susestudio.com]<br><a href="http://susestudio.com/download/7c7ccb1788320e761a886611221f7466/houghis\_bank.i686-0.0.5.vmx.tar.gz" title="susestudio.com">WMware Image</a> [susestudio.com]<br><a href="http://susestudio.com/download/1c8b0f118c79801c5d5e2f47fbbdee32/houghis\_bank.i686-0.0.5.iso" title="susestudio.com">Life CD Image</a> [susestudio.com]</p><p>So trust might be one reason not to use it. Another reason is that unless you run VMware, it is pretty inconvenient to reboot your PC to do banking. People who will use this, will most likely already be aware of what security is and thus not really need it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I made something like this in the past just as a proof of concept with openSUSE 11.1 and the use of SUSE Studio.Was not to hard to make and with a bit of effort could be done much better.Boots into GUI with Opera as GUI .
It was just a proof of concept , because will you trust the following ? Disk Image for e.g .
USB stick [ susestudio.com ] WMware Image [ susestudio.com ] Life CD Image [ susestudio.com ] So trust might be one reason not to use it .
Another reason is that unless you run VMware , it is pretty inconvenient to reboot your PC to do banking .
People who will use this , will most likely already be aware of what security is and thus not really need it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I made something like this in the past just as a proof of concept with openSUSE 11.1 and the use of SUSE Studio.Was not to hard to make and with a bit of effort could be done much better.Boots into GUI with Opera as GUI.
It was just a proof of concept, because will you trust the following?Disk Image for e.g.
USB stick [susestudio.com]WMware Image [susestudio.com]Life CD Image [susestudio.com]So trust might be one reason not to use it.
Another reason is that unless you run VMware, it is pretty inconvenient to reboot your PC to do banking.
People who will use this, will most likely already be aware of what security is and thus not really need it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621658</id>
	<title>Re:It's also stupid</title>
	<author>cbreak</author>
	<datestamp>1269534840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you think that two factor authentication protects you from being key logged then you're mistaken. There are troyans that can compromise World of Warcraft accounts that are protected by RSA Authenticator tokens like those that bank use in real time. For banks, they can do even more: They can redirect payments you perform online to an other destination, and use the codes as you enter them.

For real security, you need a secure platform. Like a system that is read only, special purpose and therefore slim, and offering at most a tiny attack vector. Much like a Boot CD containing a Linux system that boots into a browser that is hardcoded to the bank's web page. That is useful security, and not just a band aid like two-factor authentication.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think that two factor authentication protects you from being key logged then you 're mistaken .
There are troyans that can compromise World of Warcraft accounts that are protected by RSA Authenticator tokens like those that bank use in real time .
For banks , they can do even more : They can redirect payments you perform online to an other destination , and use the codes as you enter them .
For real security , you need a secure platform .
Like a system that is read only , special purpose and therefore slim , and offering at most a tiny attack vector .
Much like a Boot CD containing a Linux system that boots into a browser that is hardcoded to the bank 's web page .
That is useful security , and not just a band aid like two-factor authentication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think that two factor authentication protects you from being key logged then you're mistaken.
There are troyans that can compromise World of Warcraft accounts that are protected by RSA Authenticator tokens like those that bank use in real time.
For banks, they can do even more: They can redirect payments you perform online to an other destination, and use the codes as you enter them.
For real security, you need a secure platform.
Like a system that is read only, special purpose and therefore slim, and offering at most a tiny attack vector.
Much like a Boot CD containing a Linux system that boots into a browser that is hardcoded to the bank's web page.
That is useful security, and not just a band aid like two-factor authentication.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620942</id>
	<title>How about a banking program...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269529020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that the user can run and it to provide a safe banking experience.</p><p>It would be a re-branded Virtualbox, modified to not look like a VM. The guest OS would be a slim linux install that:<br>-- Resets each time it is rebooted / restarted<br>-- Is locked down<br>-- can only go to the bank's website (or a list of known banking websites)<br>-- Is set up in kiosk mode (URL bar showing)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that the user can run and it to provide a safe banking experience.It would be a re-branded Virtualbox , modified to not look like a VM .
The guest OS would be a slim linux install that : -- Resets each time it is rebooted / restarted-- Is locked down-- can only go to the bank 's website ( or a list of known banking websites ) -- Is set up in kiosk mode ( URL bar showing )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that the user can run and it to provide a safe banking experience.It would be a re-branded Virtualbox, modified to not look like a VM.
The guest OS would be a slim linux install that:-- Resets each time it is rebooted / restarted-- Is locked down-- can only go to the bank's website (or a list of known banking websites)-- Is set up in kiosk mode (URL bar showing)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622704</id>
	<title>That woulnd't work in Italy</title>
	<author>VincenzoRomano</author>
	<datestamp>1269547140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a number of e-banking systems don't work with Firefox, Safari and even Opera.<br>
Problems range from stuff to be weirdly displayed to missing buttons and menus.<br>
You actually need IE, possibly version 6 or maybe 7.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a number of e-banking systems do n't work with Firefox , Safari and even Opera .
Problems range from stuff to be weirdly displayed to missing buttons and menus .
You actually need IE , possibly version 6 or maybe 7 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a number of e-banking systems don't work with Firefox, Safari and even Opera.
Problems range from stuff to be weirdly displayed to missing buttons and menus.
You actually need IE, possibly version 6 or maybe 7.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621232</id>
	<title>Uh, What about downloading transactions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269531600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of the postings do not seem to be taking into account (appropriate pun)  this key feature of online banking.  Typically,  bank-type financial institutions offer the ability to download the customer's account transactions to Quicken, M$ Money (isn't that  a bit redundant?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) or (in my case) a CSV file for spreadsheet input.  I have been doing that for years (only with Linux for the last 3-4 years now once it and OpenOffice matured sufficiently), and would not do online banking if I could not do that.  I have passed up a few that compete with my current bank solely on that  basis, and almost left them when SunTrust took them over and about screwed up the download-to-CSV feature at first.  They got their act together in time to keep my businesss (but still do not offer as fully-featured a transaction format as the "dinky" bank they took over - grrr...).</p><p>I suppose the transactions could be downloaded to the Windoze partition, and then processed under Windows (if using Quicken/MS Money) after rebooting, or downloading to a USB drive and, transferring the drive to the Windoze PC, if using a dedicated "UBankto PC".</p><p>Hmmm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... another attack vector?</p><p>RO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the postings do not seem to be taking into account ( appropriate pun ) this key feature of online banking .
Typically , bank-type financial institutions offer the ability to download the customer 's account transactions to Quicken , M $ Money ( is n't that a bit redundant ?
; - ) or ( in my case ) a CSV file for spreadsheet input .
I have been doing that for years ( only with Linux for the last 3-4 years now once it and OpenOffice matured sufficiently ) , and would not do online banking if I could not do that .
I have passed up a few that compete with my current bank solely on that basis , and almost left them when SunTrust took them over and about screwed up the download-to-CSV feature at first .
They got their act together in time to keep my businesss ( but still do not offer as fully-featured a transaction format as the " dinky " bank they took over - grrr... ) .I suppose the transactions could be downloaded to the Windoze partition , and then processed under Windows ( if using Quicken/MS Money ) after rebooting , or downloading to a USB drive and , transferring the drive to the Windoze PC , if using a dedicated " UBankto PC " .Hmmm ... another attack vector ? RO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the postings do not seem to be taking into account (appropriate pun)  this key feature of online banking.
Typically,  bank-type financial institutions offer the ability to download the customer's account transactions to Quicken, M$ Money (isn't that  a bit redundant?
;-) or (in my case) a CSV file for spreadsheet input.
I have been doing that for years (only with Linux for the last 3-4 years now once it and OpenOffice matured sufficiently), and would not do online banking if I could not do that.
I have passed up a few that compete with my current bank solely on that  basis, and almost left them when SunTrust took them over and about screwed up the download-to-CSV feature at first.
They got their act together in time to keep my businesss (but still do not offer as fully-featured a transaction format as the "dinky" bank they took over - grrr...).I suppose the transactions could be downloaded to the Windoze partition, and then processed under Windows (if using Quicken/MS Money) after rebooting, or downloading to a USB drive and, transferring the drive to the Windoze PC, if using a dedicated "UBankto PC".Hmmm ... another attack vector?RO</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621188</id>
	<title>Wont work on my iPhone</title>
	<author>droopycom</author>
	<datestamp>1269531180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First how are they going to support all their customers PCs configurations ?</p><p>I mean, it was hard enough to get my PCI wifi card to work with linux. (Well, maybe they can work with those wifi chip company to finally open their specs...)</p><p>And some already mentioned that some people dont even have a CD drive anymore ? So they should probably think about USB...</p><p>In any case, I will still want to do my banking on my smartphone, so not even a usb thinkgy will help... but I might trust a dedicated signed app on a (non-jailbroken) iphone a little more than just safari. Oops... behold the power of the closed system like the iphone!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First how are they going to support all their customers PCs configurations ? I mean , it was hard enough to get my PCI wifi card to work with linux .
( Well , maybe they can work with those wifi chip company to finally open their specs... ) And some already mentioned that some people dont even have a CD drive anymore ?
So they should probably think about USB...In any case , I will still want to do my banking on my smartphone , so not even a usb thinkgy will help... but I might trust a dedicated signed app on a ( non-jailbroken ) iphone a little more than just safari .
Oops... behold the power of the closed system like the iphone !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First how are they going to support all their customers PCs configurations ?I mean, it was hard enough to get my PCI wifi card to work with linux.
(Well, maybe they can work with those wifi chip company to finally open their specs...)And some already mentioned that some people dont even have a CD drive anymore ?
So they should probably think about USB...In any case, I will still want to do my banking on my smartphone, so not even a usb thinkgy will help... but I might trust a dedicated signed app on a (non-jailbroken) iphone a little more than just safari.
Oops... behold the power of the closed system like the iphone!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623068</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Rockoon</author>
	<datestamp>1269595680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you do online banking more than twice a month? I pick twice a month presuming that you do manually initiated online bill paying.<br>
<br>
For people that ebank twice a month, I don't think booting from a CD is going to be a pain in the ass at all. If you online bank more than that, then by definition you are under increased exposer and thus dealing with more inconveniences for the same level of protection is a given.<br>
<br>
I have a linux partition specifically for online banking (I'm a once-per-month guy.) Now that this article mentioned it.. a Live CD would be an even better choice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you do online banking more than twice a month ?
I pick twice a month presuming that you do manually initiated online bill paying .
For people that ebank twice a month , I do n't think booting from a CD is going to be a pain in the ass at all .
If you online bank more than that , then by definition you are under increased exposer and thus dealing with more inconveniences for the same level of protection is a given .
I have a linux partition specifically for online banking ( I 'm a once-per-month guy .
) Now that this article mentioned it.. a Live CD would be an even better choice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you do online banking more than twice a month?
I pick twice a month presuming that you do manually initiated online bill paying.
For people that ebank twice a month, I don't think booting from a CD is going to be a pain in the ass at all.
If you online bank more than that, then by definition you are under increased exposer and thus dealing with more inconveniences for the same level of protection is a given.
I have a linux partition specifically for online banking (I'm a once-per-month guy.
) Now that this article mentioned it.. a Live CD would be an even better choice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620522</id>
	<title>Security updates / patches</title>
	<author>poor\_boi</author>
	<datestamp>1269526380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about OS and application security updates?  It's kind of hard to patch a read-only CDROM<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about OS and application security updates ?
It 's kind of hard to patch a read-only CDROM : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about OS and application security updates?
It's kind of hard to patch a read-only CDROM :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621198</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>Stradenko</author>
	<datestamp>1269531300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows."</p><p>Wait...what?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows .
" Wait...what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows.
"Wait...what?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620622</id>
	<title>Trusted computing</title>
	<author>drolli</author>
	<datestamp>1269526920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this would be a reasonable use for a trusted computing platform. It is ironic that the big companies discredited the method by not protecting the user and his rights but getting wet dreams about doing drm (and then fucking it up even for the people willing to live with it).</p><p>Seriously. Booting from a CD without an additional authentication mechanism does not solve the problem. Ii is just a fix to the fact that on nowadays computers, the way which code gets installed in the system is still an pretty undefined one. We have heard of malware flashing viruses or hiding in firmware. How many users would recognize it (or could - that is given rise by hidin the diagnostic screen with a non-informative advertisement of the manufacturer) if the computer does not boot from a cd but first from the hd and then the CD? Especially if the user normally does not see linux booting.</p><p>Moreover, putting users in an unknown environment usually increases their susceptibility to social attacks, also because they already have the feeling that they are "doing a lot". During all my live as administrator i always ezperienced that users like snakeoil. The more curious and unknown it is, the higher their feeling of security. People ask me: Do you use Linux because its *more secure* than windows, which makes me laugh. While i appreciate the better control on linux (using it since 1995 and as my only desktop operating system at home since 2000) and believe that you *could harden* it more than you could, for example windows 98, i am not sure if a hardened version of windows xp (not that MS would allow everybody to do something like that; and i dont consider windows vista or windows 7, because they are out too short) would be less secure. Most of the security of linux was tested in a server-setting, and many features on the desktops are implemented with a high fundamental security cost. So if i would be a criminal, knowing that the ditributed CD is probably not updated as often as it should be, i would probably try to social engineer attacks on "how to open an excel file in the linux distributed by then bank", congratulating that this is perfectly save because its not windows. Opening an excel file is not normal you say? I say it is. Many people keep their financial data in spreadsheets. Knowing the exact version and the fact that the user will be even more helpless than usual and that Linux will not write on the harddrive (no logs!) you probably get him to click on anything.</p><p>So, yes i believe there may be an good effect in the beginning. Until the method becomes widespread. And then it will even be more nasty, with users getting rid of all responsibility.</p><p>I have another suggestion. In indonesia i have seen that the cheapest Nokia phones sell for about 30 Euro. They have GSM, a CPU (enough for signing a document of a kb i guess) and a display and a smartcard interface. if you want to have it secure, give these to customers some hw like that (in one shape or the other - if you like you can also make a low-cost version without battery and gsm to use usb for transfer and power) with a firmware doing a token and signing the transaction displayed - upon the user pressing the button on the token. Let the users use the PC, then let the transfer confirm on the mobile and they can use safely practically everywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this would be a reasonable use for a trusted computing platform .
It is ironic that the big companies discredited the method by not protecting the user and his rights but getting wet dreams about doing drm ( and then fucking it up even for the people willing to live with it ) .Seriously .
Booting from a CD without an additional authentication mechanism does not solve the problem .
Ii is just a fix to the fact that on nowadays computers , the way which code gets installed in the system is still an pretty undefined one .
We have heard of malware flashing viruses or hiding in firmware .
How many users would recognize it ( or could - that is given rise by hidin the diagnostic screen with a non-informative advertisement of the manufacturer ) if the computer does not boot from a cd but first from the hd and then the CD ?
Especially if the user normally does not see linux booting.Moreover , putting users in an unknown environment usually increases their susceptibility to social attacks , also because they already have the feeling that they are " doing a lot " .
During all my live as administrator i always ezperienced that users like snakeoil .
The more curious and unknown it is , the higher their feeling of security .
People ask me : Do you use Linux because its * more secure * than windows , which makes me laugh .
While i appreciate the better control on linux ( using it since 1995 and as my only desktop operating system at home since 2000 ) and believe that you * could harden * it more than you could , for example windows 98 , i am not sure if a hardened version of windows xp ( not that MS would allow everybody to do something like that ; and i dont consider windows vista or windows 7 , because they are out too short ) would be less secure .
Most of the security of linux was tested in a server-setting , and many features on the desktops are implemented with a high fundamental security cost .
So if i would be a criminal , knowing that the ditributed CD is probably not updated as often as it should be , i would probably try to social engineer attacks on " how to open an excel file in the linux distributed by then bank " , congratulating that this is perfectly save because its not windows .
Opening an excel file is not normal you say ?
I say it is .
Many people keep their financial data in spreadsheets .
Knowing the exact version and the fact that the user will be even more helpless than usual and that Linux will not write on the harddrive ( no logs !
) you probably get him to click on anything.So , yes i believe there may be an good effect in the beginning .
Until the method becomes widespread .
And then it will even be more nasty , with users getting rid of all responsibility.I have another suggestion .
In indonesia i have seen that the cheapest Nokia phones sell for about 30 Euro .
They have GSM , a CPU ( enough for signing a document of a kb i guess ) and a display and a smartcard interface .
if you want to have it secure , give these to customers some hw like that ( in one shape or the other - if you like you can also make a low-cost version without battery and gsm to use usb for transfer and power ) with a firmware doing a token and signing the transaction displayed - upon the user pressing the button on the token .
Let the users use the PC , then let the transfer confirm on the mobile and they can use safely practically everywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this would be a reasonable use for a trusted computing platform.
It is ironic that the big companies discredited the method by not protecting the user and his rights but getting wet dreams about doing drm (and then fucking it up even for the people willing to live with it).Seriously.
Booting from a CD without an additional authentication mechanism does not solve the problem.
Ii is just a fix to the fact that on nowadays computers, the way which code gets installed in the system is still an pretty undefined one.
We have heard of malware flashing viruses or hiding in firmware.
How many users would recognize it (or could - that is given rise by hidin the diagnostic screen with a non-informative advertisement of the manufacturer) if the computer does not boot from a cd but first from the hd and then the CD?
Especially if the user normally does not see linux booting.Moreover, putting users in an unknown environment usually increases their susceptibility to social attacks, also because they already have the feeling that they are "doing a lot".
During all my live as administrator i always ezperienced that users like snakeoil.
The more curious and unknown it is, the higher their feeling of security.
People ask me: Do you use Linux because its *more secure* than windows, which makes me laugh.
While i appreciate the better control on linux (using it since 1995 and as my only desktop operating system at home since 2000) and believe that you *could harden* it more than you could, for example windows 98, i am not sure if a hardened version of windows xp (not that MS would allow everybody to do something like that; and i dont consider windows vista or windows 7, because they are out too short) would be less secure.
Most of the security of linux was tested in a server-setting, and many features on the desktops are implemented with a high fundamental security cost.
So if i would be a criminal, knowing that the ditributed CD is probably not updated as often as it should be, i would probably try to social engineer attacks on "how to open an excel file in the linux distributed by then bank", congratulating that this is perfectly save because its not windows.
Opening an excel file is not normal you say?
I say it is.
Many people keep their financial data in spreadsheets.
Knowing the exact version and the fact that the user will be even more helpless than usual and that Linux will not write on the harddrive (no logs!
) you probably get him to click on anything.So, yes i believe there may be an good effect in the beginning.
Until the method becomes widespread.
And then it will even be more nasty, with users getting rid of all responsibility.I have another suggestion.
In indonesia i have seen that the cheapest Nokia phones sell for about 30 Euro.
They have GSM, a CPU (enough for signing a document of a kb i guess) and a display and a smartcard interface.
if you want to have it secure, give these to customers some hw like that (in one shape or the other - if you like you can also make a low-cost version without battery and gsm to use usb for transfer and power) with a firmware doing a token and signing the transaction displayed - upon the user pressing the button on the token.
Let the users use the PC, then let the transfer confirm on the mobile and they can use safely practically everywhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620792</id>
	<title>FFS</title>
	<author>foo fighter</author>
	<datestamp>1269528180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are going to go to the expense of creating and distributing physical media, just implement two-factor authentication.</p><p>SECURITY NERD RAGE! RAUGH!</p><p>In my opinion, pressing a little button on your bank-branded, credit card-sized PIN generator (such as the ones I have from Bank of America and PayPal/eBay) you keep in your wallet next to your credit cards and ID is waaaay easier than trying to remember what bullshit answer I gave to yet another off the wall "security" question. It's clearly much more secure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are going to go to the expense of creating and distributing physical media , just implement two-factor authentication.SECURITY NERD RAGE !
RAUGH ! In my opinion , pressing a little button on your bank-branded , credit card-sized PIN generator ( such as the ones I have from Bank of America and PayPal/eBay ) you keep in your wallet next to your credit cards and ID is waaaay easier than trying to remember what bullshit answer I gave to yet another off the wall " security " question .
It 's clearly much more secure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are going to go to the expense of creating and distributing physical media, just implement two-factor authentication.SECURITY NERD RAGE!
RAUGH!In my opinion, pressing a little button on your bank-branded, credit card-sized PIN generator (such as the ones I have from Bank of America and PayPal/eBay) you keep in your wallet next to your credit cards and ID is waaaay easier than trying to remember what bullshit answer I gave to yet another off the wall "security" question.
It's clearly much more secure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622658</id>
	<title>And how do you patch it?</title>
	<author>poppycock</author>
	<datestamp>1269546480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Am I missing something, or is this the stupidest idea on slashdot all year long?</p><p>How do they propose to patch the software? Or are they going to distribute perfect software on the first try?</p><p>I realize of course that you can't persist the malware (leaving aside the possibility of modifications to the firware of various peripherals or a 'Deep Door' style attack), but that's hardly all that matters. And even still, you could achieve the results better by using a VM with automatic disk-undo.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I missing something , or is this the stupidest idea on slashdot all year long ? How do they propose to patch the software ?
Or are they going to distribute perfect software on the first try ? I realize of course that you ca n't persist the malware ( leaving aside the possibility of modifications to the firware of various peripherals or a 'Deep Door ' style attack ) , but that 's hardly all that matters .
And even still , you could achieve the results better by using a VM with automatic disk-undo .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I missing something, or is this the stupidest idea on slashdot all year long?How do they propose to patch the software?
Or are they going to distribute perfect software on the first try?I realize of course that you can't persist the malware (leaving aside the possibility of modifications to the firware of various peripherals or a 'Deep Door' style attack), but that's hardly all that matters.
And even still, you could achieve the results better by using a VM with automatic disk-undo.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620632</id>
	<title>Alternative</title>
	<author>maugle</author>
	<datestamp>1269526980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or just do your online banking from your smart phone.  Sure, it might have come pre-infected with a botnet, but it still probably doesn't have a keylogger running.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or just do your online banking from your smart phone .
Sure , it might have come pre-infected with a botnet , but it still probably does n't have a keylogger running .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or just do your online banking from your smart phone.
Sure, it might have come pre-infected with a botnet, but it still probably doesn't have a keylogger running.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624232</id>
	<title>Or will online banking save Ubuntu? :)</title>
	<author>toby</author>
	<datestamp>1269608040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But seriously -- the vulnerability of services like online banking is a huge elephant in the room where Windows is concerned. ("Let's take the cruddiest, most exploited modern operating system you can find, install it on 97\% of PCs with no choice, and don't tell anybody they can't trust it to keep anything private." What could possibly go wrong?)</p><p>There is no way that your average PC owner can keep Windows free of malware for very long. This must be snowballing into a massive future class action.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But seriously -- the vulnerability of services like online banking is a huge elephant in the room where Windows is concerned .
( " Let 's take the cruddiest , most exploited modern operating system you can find , install it on 97 \ % of PCs with no choice , and do n't tell anybody they ca n't trust it to keep anything private .
" What could possibly go wrong ?
) There is no way that your average PC owner can keep Windows free of malware for very long .
This must be snowballing into a massive future class action .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But seriously -- the vulnerability of services like online banking is a huge elephant in the room where Windows is concerned.
("Let's take the cruddiest, most exploited modern operating system you can find, install it on 97\% of PCs with no choice, and don't tell anybody they can't trust it to keep anything private.
" What could possibly go wrong?
)There is no way that your average PC owner can keep Windows free of malware for very long.
This must be snowballing into a massive future class action.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622790</id>
	<title>Wait for Android?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269634800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know Android is still maturing, but Android is a sandboxed userland for Linux, maybe they should wait a while and make an Android app, and an Android bootable CD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know Android is still maturing , but Android is a sandboxed userland for Linux , maybe they should wait a while and make an Android app , and an Android bootable CD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know Android is still maturing, but Android is a sandboxed userland for Linux, maybe they should wait a while and make an Android app, and an Android bootable CD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31634076</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269606180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>2.  What?  This thing is just to be used for banking, even if criminals find a vulnerability in the LiveCD how are they going to exploit it?  It'd have to involve some sort of a man-in-the-middle attack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 .
What ? This thing is just to be used for banking , even if criminals find a vulnerability in the LiveCD how are they going to exploit it ?
It 'd have to involve some sort of a man-in-the-middle attack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2.
What?  This thing is just to be used for banking, even if criminals find a vulnerability in the LiveCD how are they going to exploit it?
It'd have to involve some sort of a man-in-the-middle attack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621270</id>
	<title>It's also stupid</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1269531960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only thing this protects against is spyware running on the computer being used to access the site. Ok, fine. However that doesn't help for phishing e-mails or any of the other ways to get info. Also, as noted, it would be easy for someone to replace the CDs with ones that have spyware built in. What is really needed? Two factor authentication. Just get an authenticator token and you've stopped nearly all of these threats.</p><p>My bank has this. I've got a little credit card sized thing with a display on it. It gives me a 6-digit number to log in with when I push the button. A new number is also required to do anything really important like add a new place to pay bills to, transfer money to an account that isn't mine or change information on the account. So, even if I was on a spywared system and accessed my account, and that spyware could allow the person remotely to take control so that they could use the session, they STILL couldn't get any money out of my account.</p><p>That is useful security. This CD idea is more security theater. It might give the illusion of security, but really you haven't helped anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only thing this protects against is spyware running on the computer being used to access the site .
Ok , fine .
However that does n't help for phishing e-mails or any of the other ways to get info .
Also , as noted , it would be easy for someone to replace the CDs with ones that have spyware built in .
What is really needed ?
Two factor authentication .
Just get an authenticator token and you 've stopped nearly all of these threats.My bank has this .
I 've got a little credit card sized thing with a display on it .
It gives me a 6-digit number to log in with when I push the button .
A new number is also required to do anything really important like add a new place to pay bills to , transfer money to an account that is n't mine or change information on the account .
So , even if I was on a spywared system and accessed my account , and that spyware could allow the person remotely to take control so that they could use the session , they STILL could n't get any money out of my account.That is useful security .
This CD idea is more security theater .
It might give the illusion of security , but really you have n't helped anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only thing this protects against is spyware running on the computer being used to access the site.
Ok, fine.
However that doesn't help for phishing e-mails or any of the other ways to get info.
Also, as noted, it would be easy for someone to replace the CDs with ones that have spyware built in.
What is really needed?
Two factor authentication.
Just get an authenticator token and you've stopped nearly all of these threats.My bank has this.
I've got a little credit card sized thing with a display on it.
It gives me a 6-digit number to log in with when I push the button.
A new number is also required to do anything really important like add a new place to pay bills to, transfer money to an account that isn't mine or change information on the account.
So, even if I was on a spywared system and accessed my account, and that spyware could allow the person remotely to take control so that they could use the session, they STILL couldn't get any money out of my account.That is useful security.
This CD idea is more security theater.
It might give the illusion of security, but really you haven't helped anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621214</id>
	<title>Short Answer</title>
	<author>dmomo</author>
	<datestamp>1269531420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No.</p><p>Slightly less short:<br>Save online banking from what? Security, schmecurity.  Online banking is here to stay.</p><p>A better question:<br>Can Ubuntu save US FROM the problems of online banking?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No.Slightly less short : Save online banking from what ?
Security , schmecurity .
Online banking is here to stay.A better question : Can Ubuntu save US FROM the problems of online banking ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.Slightly less short:Save online banking from what?
Security, schmecurity.
Online banking is here to stay.A better question:Can Ubuntu save US FROM the problems of online banking?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620144</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>chronosan</author>
	<datestamp>1269523860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The whole point of a Live CD is that the software isn't really soft. A VM could be hacked, since the code is in changeable memory and is executed in an environment that can't be guaranteed to be secure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole point of a Live CD is that the software is n't really soft .
A VM could be hacked , since the code is in changeable memory and is executed in an environment that ca n't be guaranteed to be secure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole point of a Live CD is that the software isn't really soft.
A VM could be hacked, since the code is in changeable memory and is executed in an environment that can't be guaranteed to be secure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619846</id>
	<title>Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269522300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.</p><p>INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.<br>You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.</p><p>CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER<br>Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat</p><p>HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.</p><p>FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.</p><p>MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.<br>Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigger's most</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger !
If handled properly , your apeman will give years of valuable , if reluctant , service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model .
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration , i.e .
chained together .
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it , and do n't even think about taking that chain off , ever .
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them .
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud .
House niggers work best as standalone units , but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape .
At this stage , your nigger can also be given a name .
Most owners use the same names over and over , since niggers become confused by too much data .
Rufus , Rastus , Remus , Toby , Carslisle , Carlton , Hey-You ! -Yes-you ! , Yeller , Blackstar , and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger .
If your nigger is a ho , it should be called Latrelle , L'Tanya , or Jemima .
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke .
Pearl , Blossom , and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes .
These names go straight over your nigger 's head , by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error , your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords .
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - " muh dick " being the most popular .
However , others make barking , yelping , yapping noises and appear to be in some pain , so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger 's tongue .
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least , you wo n't hear it complaining anywhere near as much .
Niggers have nothing interesting to say , anyway .
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons ( yours , mine , and that of women , not the nigger 's ) .
This is strongly recommended , and frankly , it 's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars .
Make sure , however , that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through .
The rule of thumb is , four niggers per square yard of cage .
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers .
You can site a nigger cage anywhere , even on soft ground .
Do n't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage .
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they 're not about to now .
In any case , your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape .
As long as the free food holds out , your nigger is living better than it did in Africa , so it will stay put .
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage , as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken , corn bread , and watermelon .
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly does n't deserve it .
Instead , feed it on porridge with salt , and creek water .
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields , other niggers , etc .
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat , but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day .
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer , since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives .
He reports he does n't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result .
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work , since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained .
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton .
You really would .
Coffee beans ?
Do n't ask .
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very , very averse to work of any kind .
The nigger 's most</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger!
If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model.
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e.
chained together.
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever.
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them.
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud.
House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape.
At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name.
Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data.
Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger.
If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima.
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke.
Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes.
These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords.
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular.
However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue.
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much.
Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway.
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's).
This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars.
Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through.
The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage.
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers.
You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground.
Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage.
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now.
In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape.
As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put.
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon.
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it.
Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water.
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc.
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day.
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives.
He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result.
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained.
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton.
You really would.
Coffee beans?
Don't ask.
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind.
The nigger's most</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624682</id>
	<title>BIOS settings to enable booting from a CD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269611280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For many PCs you will have to change BIOS settings to boot from a CD. It may be too complex and inconvenient for an average user</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For many PCs you will have to change BIOS settings to boot from a CD .
It may be too complex and inconvenient for an average user</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For many PCs you will have to change BIOS settings to boot from a CD.
It may be too complex and inconvenient for an average user</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620168</id>
	<title>mailing them out is no good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bad guys will start mailing out hacked Ubuntu CDs.</p><p>Or swap the pile of CDs down at the bank, that's even easier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad guys will start mailing out hacked Ubuntu CDs.Or swap the pile of CDs down at the bank , that 's even easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad guys will start mailing out hacked Ubuntu CDs.Or swap the pile of CDs down at the bank, that's even easier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621000</id>
	<title>Quicken?</title>
	<author>jesseck</author>
	<datestamp>1269529560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about users with Quicken or Microsoft Money?  Or even GnuCash?  With a live CD, I can't store my financial software on that CD.  And making the Live OS capable of writing the downloaded transactions to a computer is more trouble than most users will want.  LiveCD is a great idea for *looking* at stuff, but it won't accomplish much else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about users with Quicken or Microsoft Money ?
Or even GnuCash ?
With a live CD , I ca n't store my financial software on that CD .
And making the Live OS capable of writing the downloaded transactions to a computer is more trouble than most users will want .
LiveCD is a great idea for * looking * at stuff , but it wo n't accomplish much else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about users with Quicken or Microsoft Money?
Or even GnuCash?
With a live CD, I can't store my financial software on that CD.
And making the Live OS capable of writing the downloaded transactions to a computer is more trouble than most users will want.
LiveCD is a great idea for *looking* at stuff, but it won't accomplish much else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622580</id>
	<title>What bout two-factor authentication?</title>
	<author>shitzu</author>
	<datestamp>1269545580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use a national ID card which is a smart card. This is called two-factor authentication. You got to have something (a key) and know something (a pin) to do anything. If i use a cardreader with an external pinpad, it is very hard for malware to sign any traffic or bank orders with this card. If you do not have an ID card already in your pocket, it should be quite feasible to a bank to use its own smartcards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use a national ID card which is a smart card .
This is called two-factor authentication .
You got to have something ( a key ) and know something ( a pin ) to do anything .
If i use a cardreader with an external pinpad , it is very hard for malware to sign any traffic or bank orders with this card .
If you do not have an ID card already in your pocket , it should be quite feasible to a bank to use its own smartcards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use a national ID card which is a smart card.
This is called two-factor authentication.
You got to have something (a key) and know something (a pin) to do anything.
If i use a cardreader with an external pinpad, it is very hard for malware to sign any traffic or bank orders with this card.
If you do not have an ID card already in your pocket, it should be quite feasible to a bank to use its own smartcards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31639340</id>
	<title>Real story</title>
	<author>carbuncofeliz</author>
	<datestamp>1269704040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tha's what happened to me a week ago: I logged in my bank's account just to find out how poor I am when not only appeared my 3 accounts but 14 more to which I am not related at all.</p><p>I use linux exclusively and also I update the system every week.</p><p>Of course I call my bank to aware them but nobody could explain me what the error was and why did it happen.</p><p>Quite strange...isn't it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tha 's what happened to me a week ago : I logged in my bank 's account just to find out how poor I am when not only appeared my 3 accounts but 14 more to which I am not related at all.I use linux exclusively and also I update the system every week.Of course I call my bank to aware them but nobody could explain me what the error was and why did it happen.Quite strange...is n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tha's what happened to me a week ago: I logged in my bank's account just to find out how poor I am when not only appeared my 3 accounts but 14 more to which I am not related at all.I use linux exclusively and also I update the system every week.Of course I call my bank to aware them but nobody could explain me what the error was and why did it happen.Quite strange...isn't it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620334</id>
	<title>Boot live cd!!  OK!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269525120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about you guys but I actually work in "THE WILD"...what I want to know is who is going to show all of these people how to boot to a CD...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;&gt;\  WOW!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about you guys but I actually work in " THE WILD " ...what I want to know is who is going to show all of these people how to boot to a CD... ; &gt; \ WOW ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about you guys but I actually work in "THE WILD"...what I want to know is who is going to show all of these people how to boot to a CD... ;&gt;\  WOW!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619866</id>
	<title>Interesting, but what about users?</title>
	<author>ricebowl</author>
	<datestamp>1269522420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The majority of users I have contact with resent having to enter passwords/user-verification <em>at all</em>. With banks they do, often at least, appreciate the value of the process. But they <em>still</em> take every opportunity to minimise the process, so what're these users to do when they can't have Firefox (et al) save their username/passwords?</p><p>Personally, I'm thinking they'll go back to using Windows, which can't be reasonably prevented by the institution, without cutting off a large user-base. Still, a nice -and, to me, novel- idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The majority of users I have contact with resent having to enter passwords/user-verification at all .
With banks they do , often at least , appreciate the value of the process .
But they still take every opportunity to minimise the process , so what 're these users to do when they ca n't have Firefox ( et al ) save their username/passwords ? Personally , I 'm thinking they 'll go back to using Windows , which ca n't be reasonably prevented by the institution , without cutting off a large user-base .
Still , a nice -and , to me , novel- idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The majority of users I have contact with resent having to enter passwords/user-verification at all.
With banks they do, often at least, appreciate the value of the process.
But they still take every opportunity to minimise the process, so what're these users to do when they can't have Firefox (et al) save their username/passwords?Personally, I'm thinking they'll go back to using Windows, which can't be reasonably prevented by the institution, without cutting off a large user-base.
Still, a nice -and, to me, novel- idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31626120</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>owlstead</author>
	<datestamp>1269617880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that <b>integrates</b> with their daily workflow. This runs completely against that goal, since the customer would have to reboot their computer (which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others) just to check their balances. Completely unacceptable.</p></div><p>Ok, you should certainly be modded up for that comment. I cannot see this work for my normal bank transactions. I *can* see this work for special bank transactions where security is really required, like accessing an account with large amounts of money, changing the way it is invested etc.. It would be an in between of handing out / buying a special device for that reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that integrates with their daily workflow .
This runs completely against that goal , since the customer would have to reboot their computer ( which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others ) just to check their balances .
Completely unacceptable.Ok , you should certainly be modded up for that comment .
I can not see this work for my normal bank transactions .
I * can * see this work for special bank transactions where security is really required , like accessing an account with large amounts of money , changing the way it is invested etc.. It would be an in between of handing out / buying a special device for that reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that integrates with their daily workflow.
This runs completely against that goal, since the customer would have to reboot their computer (which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others) just to check their balances.
Completely unacceptable.Ok, you should certainly be modded up for that comment.
I cannot see this work for my normal bank transactions.
I *can* see this work for special bank transactions where security is really required, like accessing an account with large amounts of money, changing the way it is invested etc.. It would be an in between of handing out / buying a special device for that reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622968</id>
	<title>can ubuntu save banking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269594120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>NO.</p><p>this idea is an EPIC FAIL.</p><p>keystrokes can still be captured, DNS requests redirected and discs faked.</p><p>if people stopped beating off for 5 seconds because it mentions linux, they might see it's a shit idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NO.this idea is an EPIC FAIL.keystrokes can still be captured , DNS requests redirected and discs faked.if people stopped beating off for 5 seconds because it mentions linux , they might see it 's a shit idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NO.this idea is an EPIC FAIL.keystrokes can still be captured, DNS requests redirected and discs faked.if people stopped beating off for 5 seconds because it mentions linux, they might see it's a shit idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621334</id>
	<title>DNS Poisoning anyone?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269532440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A really good idea, in so long as you can trust the DNS results that are coming back from your ISP for the pre-configured website that the live CD is pointing to.</p><p>A probable attack vector - Spoof the login page of the  website, use all too prevalent DNS poisoning methods available against a few select ISPs that are centered around wealthy suburbs, and just wait a while.</p><p>Sure, the article describes using two-factor out-of-band authentication, but even if you only get the initial username/password, that's 50\% of what you need to drain a bank account dry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A really good idea , in so long as you can trust the DNS results that are coming back from your ISP for the pre-configured website that the live CD is pointing to.A probable attack vector - Spoof the login page of the website , use all too prevalent DNS poisoning methods available against a few select ISPs that are centered around wealthy suburbs , and just wait a while.Sure , the article describes using two-factor out-of-band authentication , but even if you only get the initial username/password , that 's 50 \ % of what you need to drain a bank account dry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A really good idea, in so long as you can trust the DNS results that are coming back from your ISP for the pre-configured website that the live CD is pointing to.A probable attack vector - Spoof the login page of the  website, use all too prevalent DNS poisoning methods available against a few select ISPs that are centered around wealthy suburbs, and just wait a while.Sure, the article describes using two-factor out-of-band authentication, but even if you only get the initial username/password, that's 50\% of what you need to drain a bank account dry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624658</id>
	<title>"Never bank on Windows"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269611160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Always use Mac or Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Always use Mac or Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always use Mac or Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</id>
	<title>Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>In theory it is a fantastic idea to promote security and virtually prevent problems.  In reality, here is what you face:

1. User inertia to do this because it removes some of the convenience of online banking.  Maybe Joe and Jane Smith who would be using this would be less savvy than your average computer user and still find a way to bungle things up despite this being totally sandboxed.

2. The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL's distro and systematically look for a weakness.  A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows.


It might work if, you have a system where you must be a customer of the bank and the distro you download comes with a unique certificate tied to your identity.  But the reality of online banking is that it is an inherrent security risk.  But even then, it is not quite perfect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In theory it is a fantastic idea to promote security and virtually prevent problems .
In reality , here is what you face : 1 .
User inertia to do this because it removes some of the convenience of online banking .
Maybe Joe and Jane Smith who would be using this would be less savvy than your average computer user and still find a way to bungle things up despite this being totally sandboxed .
2. The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL 's distro and systematically look for a weakness .
A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows .
It might work if , you have a system where you must be a customer of the bank and the distro you download comes with a unique certificate tied to your identity .
But the reality of online banking is that it is an inherrent security risk .
But even then , it is not quite perfect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In theory it is a fantastic idea to promote security and virtually prevent problems.
In reality, here is what you face:

1.
User inertia to do this because it removes some of the convenience of online banking.
Maybe Joe and Jane Smith who would be using this would be less savvy than your average computer user and still find a way to bungle things up despite this being totally sandboxed.
2. The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL's distro and systematically look for a weakness.
A weakness with Linux is generally in order of magnitudes harder to find than Windows.
It might work if, you have a system where you must be a customer of the bank and the distro you download comes with a unique certificate tied to your identity.
But the reality of online banking is that it is an inherrent security risk.
But even then, it is not quite perfect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621068</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269530220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL's distro and systematically look for a weakness.</p></div><p>As opposed to Windows or even OS X?..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL 's distro and systematically look for a weakness.As opposed to Windows or even OS X ? . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that this is openly downloadable - Criminal networks can now simply obtain CNL's distro and systematically look for a weakness.As opposed to Windows or even OS X?..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624200</id>
	<title>Cat got my tongue</title>
	<author>toxickitty</author>
	<datestamp>1269607740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a terrible idea really and reading through most of the comments I haven't seen anyone mention it. What if you release bootable CD and 3 months or even a year later, there's some vunrablity in the software on that CD? Update it? Um nope? Have fun issuing a whole bunch of new CDs when you find a problem with it. Cause we really need to throw more stuff in the garbage dump?</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a terrible idea really and reading through most of the comments I have n't seen anyone mention it .
What if you release bootable CD and 3 months or even a year later , there 's some vunrablity in the software on that CD ?
Update it ?
Um nope ?
Have fun issuing a whole bunch of new CDs when you find a problem with it .
Cause we really need to throw more stuff in the garbage dump ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a terrible idea really and reading through most of the comments I haven't seen anyone mention it.
What if you release bootable CD and 3 months or even a year later, there's some vunrablity in the software on that CD?
Update it?
Um nope?
Have fun issuing a whole bunch of new CDs when you find a problem with it.
Cause we really need to throw more stuff in the garbage dump?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620196</id>
	<title>VMWare alternative</title>
	<author>oldhack</author>
	<datestamp>1269524280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Similarly, you could build an customized VMWare image and package it with free VMWare player offering.
</p><p>
But you'd need a Windows license if you want a Windows image.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Similarly , you could build an customized VMWare image and package it with free VMWare player offering .
But you 'd need a Windows license if you want a Windows image .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Similarly, you could build an customized VMWare image and package it with free VMWare player offering.
But you'd need a Windows license if you want a Windows image.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620102</id>
	<title>Why Ubuntu?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269523680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely if its a one shot thing, a customer version of webconverger or maybe slitaz?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely if its a one shot thing , a customer version of webconverger or maybe slitaz ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely if its a one shot thing, a customer version of webconverger or maybe slitaz?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623232</id>
	<title>Chrome OS</title>
	<author>badpazzword</author>
	<datestamp>1269597600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like what they really want is Chrome OS, then. (When it'll be out, that is.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like what they really want is Chrome OS , then .
( When it 'll be out , that is .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like what they really want is Chrome OS, then.
(When it'll be out, that is.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622862</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>DeBaas</author>
	<datestamp>1269635760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Been in favour of of that for some time now: <a href="http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1403461&amp;cid=29754057&amp;art\_pos=28" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1403461&amp;cid=29754057&amp;art\_pos=28</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>They could add extra security such as make sure Firefox will only go to pre-configured ip-adresses</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Been in favour of of that for some time now : http : //slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1403461&amp;cid = 29754057&amp;art \ _pos = 28 [ slashdot.org ] They could add extra security such as make sure Firefox will only go to pre-configured ip-adresses</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Been in favour of of that for some time now: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1403461&amp;cid=29754057&amp;art\_pos=28 [slashdot.org]They could add extra security such as make sure Firefox will only go to pre-configured ip-adresses</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620250</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention that many people don't have CD players in their computers anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention that many people do n't have CD players in their computers anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention that many people don't have CD players in their computers anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620126</id>
	<title>Wrong problem</title>
	<author>Un pobre guey</author>
	<datestamp>1269523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem isn't online banking <em>per se</em>, it is the ease with which even savvy users can be duped into fraudulent online transactions. The solution must be much more general. Also, if every place we need to do a secure online transaction requires the booting up of a LiveCD or similar, gods help us. To say the least, that is not a scalable or generalizable solution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is n't online banking per se , it is the ease with which even savvy users can be duped into fraudulent online transactions .
The solution must be much more general .
Also , if every place we need to do a secure online transaction requires the booting up of a LiveCD or similar , gods help us .
To say the least , that is not a scalable or generalizable solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem isn't online banking per se, it is the ease with which even savvy users can be duped into fraudulent online transactions.
The solution must be much more general.
Also, if every place we need to do a secure online transaction requires the booting up of a LiveCD or similar, gods help us.
To say the least, that is not a scalable or generalizable solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620288</id>
	<title>Great idea!</title>
	<author>CoolGopher</author>
	<datestamp>1269524820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I was into phishing I'd build such a CD (pre-set to my spoofed bank site of course) right away and mass-mail it out to everyone with instructions on how to use it. Pick a big bank and you should get enough hits to make it worthwhile the CD printing cost!</p><p>Or, how about let's not do this? Technical "solution", social problem. Good luck...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I was into phishing I 'd build such a CD ( pre-set to my spoofed bank site of course ) right away and mass-mail it out to everyone with instructions on how to use it .
Pick a big bank and you should get enough hits to make it worthwhile the CD printing cost ! Or , how about let 's not do this ?
Technical " solution " , social problem .
Good luck.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I was into phishing I'd build such a CD (pre-set to my spoofed bank site of course) right away and mass-mail it out to everyone with instructions on how to use it.
Pick a big bank and you should get enough hits to make it worthwhile the CD printing cost!Or, how about let's not do this?
Technical "solution", social problem.
Good luck...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31629028</id>
	<title>Can Ubuntu Save Online Banking?</title>
	<author>the old rang</author>
	<datestamp>1269628020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This kind of thinking is exactly the reason why Identity Thefts biggest source of names and information, is the Banking/Finance business. All the reasons others have mentioned, and thousands more, are why so many stories are not told, about how many hundreds of MILLIONS of names have been taken, world wide (Just one hit can get 100,000 in seconds... let alone just sitting there for days)...

Banking for many years only kept 'physical' security as a standards...\

Although changing sloooooowly... they are paying millions to have 'security' but blow it with this kind of thinking.

Want to imagine how many bank computers use 'USB' and have not figured out that is what 'thumb drives' use...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This kind of thinking is exactly the reason why Identity Thefts biggest source of names and information , is the Banking/Finance business .
All the reasons others have mentioned , and thousands more , are why so many stories are not told , about how many hundreds of MILLIONS of names have been taken , world wide ( Just one hit can get 100,000 in seconds... let alone just sitting there for days ) .. . Banking for many years only kept 'physical ' security as a standards... \ Although changing sloooooowly... they are paying millions to have 'security ' but blow it with this kind of thinking .
Want to imagine how many bank computers use 'USB ' and have not figured out that is what 'thumb drives ' use.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This kind of thinking is exactly the reason why Identity Thefts biggest source of names and information, is the Banking/Finance business.
All the reasons others have mentioned, and thousands more, are why so many stories are not told, about how many hundreds of MILLIONS of names have been taken, world wide (Just one hit can get 100,000 in seconds... let alone just sitting there for days)...

Banking for many years only kept 'physical' security as a standards...\

Although changing sloooooowly... they are paying millions to have 'security' but blow it with this kind of thinking.
Want to imagine how many bank computers use 'USB' and have not figured out that is what 'thumb drives' use...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621764</id>
	<title>Still Vulnerable</title>
	<author>leachlife4</author>
	<datestamp>1269535680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This will still leave you vulnerable to DNS/ARP spoofing, for example if someone is on your wireless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This will still leave you vulnerable to DNS/ARP spoofing , for example if someone is on your wireless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This will still leave you vulnerable to DNS/ARP spoofing, for example if someone is on your wireless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619838</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269522240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uhhhm VMware player anyone?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uhhhm VMware player anyone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uhhhm VMware player anyone?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620828</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1269528420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Banking would be more secure if passwords could be anything.</p><p>The odds of someone hacking my slashdot account are less than the odds of them hacking my bank account. Probably billions of times less likely.</p><p>Because after all, a 6-8 character password beginning with a Capital letter that has at least 2 lowercase letters and 2 numbers only has so many possible combinations. Slashdot, on the other hand, has ridiculously long allowable passwords, and you can splatter any amount of numbers and symbols in there with other stuff.</p><p>4 digit PIN numbers are an even bigger laugh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Banking would be more secure if passwords could be anything.The odds of someone hacking my slashdot account are less than the odds of them hacking my bank account .
Probably billions of times less likely.Because after all , a 6-8 character password beginning with a Capital letter that has at least 2 lowercase letters and 2 numbers only has so many possible combinations .
Slashdot , on the other hand , has ridiculously long allowable passwords , and you can splatter any amount of numbers and symbols in there with other stuff.4 digit PIN numbers are an even bigger laugh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Banking would be more secure if passwords could be anything.The odds of someone hacking my slashdot account are less than the odds of them hacking my bank account.
Probably billions of times less likely.Because after all, a 6-8 character password beginning with a Capital letter that has at least 2 lowercase letters and 2 numbers only has so many possible combinations.
Slashdot, on the other hand, has ridiculously long allowable passwords, and you can splatter any amount of numbers and symbols in there with other stuff.4 digit PIN numbers are an even bigger laugh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31624320</id>
	<title>quicken download would not work</title>
	<author>nsteussy</author>
	<datestamp>1269608700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a great idea.  Unfortunately for me, much of what I do with 'online banking' is download activity into my Quicken register.  That would not be compatible.

duke out</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a great idea .
Unfortunately for me , much of what I do with 'online banking ' is download activity into my Quicken register .
That would not be compatible .
duke out</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a great idea.
Unfortunately for me, much of what I do with 'online banking' is download activity into my Quicken register.
That would not be compatible.
duke out</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622292</id>
	<title>Re:Theory vs. Reality</title>
	<author>astar</author>
	<datestamp>1269542100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i am not much of a security expert.  here is how i see it.  I control very little.  everything can and eventually will be owned.  for instance, how much physical security do you really have for your electronics?  is your bank above board?  (my bank is extremely financially stressed, so it is interesting to speculate on all sorts of dimensions.) Consider your HMO.  (A long time ago I heard quotes from malpractice attorneys that it was common for medical records to be doctored.  oops, i did not intend the pun.)</p><p>so one of the problems with the comments is that the cd or netbook is from the bank.</p><p>my contribution to the discussion is that i need a system that securely logs everything.</p><p>I will observe that I had some security issues in 2009 and spent thousands of dollars attempting to improve things.  It really did not do enough good.  but i suppose as the threat environment becomes worse and worse, there will be some money to be made.  pooh, at this point, i figure the anti-virus stuff is pretty much a scam, but they make money.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i am not much of a security expert .
here is how i see it .
I control very little .
everything can and eventually will be owned .
for instance , how much physical security do you really have for your electronics ?
is your bank above board ?
( my bank is extremely financially stressed , so it is interesting to speculate on all sorts of dimensions .
) Consider your HMO .
( A long time ago I heard quotes from malpractice attorneys that it was common for medical records to be doctored .
oops , i did not intend the pun .
) so one of the problems with the comments is that the cd or netbook is from the bank.my contribution to the discussion is that i need a system that securely logs everything.I will observe that I had some security issues in 2009 and spent thousands of dollars attempting to improve things .
It really did not do enough good .
but i suppose as the threat environment becomes worse and worse , there will be some money to be made .
pooh , at this point , i figure the anti-virus stuff is pretty much a scam , but they make money .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>i am not much of a security expert.
here is how i see it.
I control very little.
everything can and eventually will be owned.
for instance, how much physical security do you really have for your electronics?
is your bank above board?
(my bank is extremely financially stressed, so it is interesting to speculate on all sorts of dimensions.
) Consider your HMO.
(A long time ago I heard quotes from malpractice attorneys that it was common for medical records to be doctored.
oops, i did not intend the pun.
)so one of the problems with the comments is that the cd or netbook is from the bank.my contribution to the discussion is that i need a system that securely logs everything.I will observe that I had some security issues in 2009 and spent thousands of dollars attempting to improve things.
It really did not do enough good.
but i suppose as the threat environment becomes worse and worse, there will be some money to be made.
pooh, at this point, i figure the anti-virus stuff is pretty much a scam, but they make money.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619880</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>sourcerror</author>
	<datestamp>1269522480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's more convenient than standing in lines. People who have burnt themselves are likely to try it. All you need is fast booting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's more convenient than standing in lines .
People who have burnt themselves are likely to try it .
All you need is fast booting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's more convenient than standing in lines.
People who have burnt themselves are likely to try it.
All you need is fast booting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622562</id>
	<title>A better option</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269545220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just press the "Format Drive and install" button.  Then everything runs just a little bit faster, and you can give the disk to a friend (so they can press the same button, and pass it on further).  If you are in Florida and the tenth person to get it and can't find anyone else local to give it to, send it to a cousin an another state, and let them press the "Format drive and install" button (and pass it on further).  Saves the pesky problem of security and whatnot.  "Hey, the computer runs so much faster now" or "why doesn't my computer crash or freeze anymore" or "why don't I get viruses anymore" might be some of the troubling questions people ask after pressing the "Format Drive and install" button, but we'll get to that problem later on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just press the " Format Drive and install " button .
Then everything runs just a little bit faster , and you can give the disk to a friend ( so they can press the same button , and pass it on further ) .
If you are in Florida and the tenth person to get it and ca n't find anyone else local to give it to , send it to a cousin an another state , and let them press the " Format drive and install " button ( and pass it on further ) .
Saves the pesky problem of security and whatnot .
" Hey , the computer runs so much faster now " or " why does n't my computer crash or freeze anymore " or " why do n't I get viruses anymore " might be some of the troubling questions people ask after pressing the " Format Drive and install " button , but we 'll get to that problem later on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just press the "Format Drive and install" button.
Then everything runs just a little bit faster, and you can give the disk to a friend (so they can press the same button, and pass it on further).
If you are in Florida and the tenth person to get it and can't find anyone else local to give it to, send it to a cousin an another state, and let them press the "Format drive and install" button (and pass it on further).
Saves the pesky problem of security and whatnot.
"Hey, the computer runs so much faster now" or "why doesn't my computer crash or freeze anymore" or "why don't I get viruses anymore" might be some of the troubling questions people ask after pressing the "Format Drive and install" button, but we'll get to that problem later on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620062</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269523500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the vmware host is infected the guest is not safe. A virtual machine is useless for security from the host.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the vmware host is infected the guest is not safe .
A virtual machine is useless for security from the host .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the vmware host is infected the guest is not safe.
A virtual machine is useless for security from the host.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620834</id>
	<title>No.</title>
	<author>MrCrassic</author>
	<datestamp>1269528420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's the chief reason why Live CD's probably won't work:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu Linux bootable "live CD" discs in its branches and by mail. The discs would boot up Linux, run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL Bank's Web site.</p></div><p>The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that <b>integrates</b> with their daily workflow. This runs completely against that goal, since the customer would have to reboot their computer (which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others) just to check their balances. Completely unacceptable.</p><p>The approach that I think is more practical (along with others here) is virtual PC access. It would be killer if each online banking customer got a small, special-purpose Linux-based virtual PC that can only be controlled by their own Java clients and can only access their regular online banking web site. Of course, it would probably have to be on a completely isolated network to be more effective. That would be both isolated enough and practical enough to be a secure alternative to the way we bank online today, though I'm sure this is hardly trivial to implement...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's the chief reason why Live CD 's probably wo n't work : CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu Linux bootable " live CD " discs in its branches and by mail .
The discs would boot up Linux , run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL Bank 's Web site.The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that integrates with their daily workflow .
This runs completely against that goal , since the customer would have to reboot their computer ( which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others ) just to check their balances .
Completely unacceptable.The approach that I think is more practical ( along with others here ) is virtual PC access .
It would be killer if each online banking customer got a small , special-purpose Linux-based virtual PC that can only be controlled by their own Java clients and can only access their regular online banking web site .
Of course , it would probably have to be on a completely isolated network to be more effective .
That would be both isolated enough and practical enough to be a secure alternative to the way we bank online today , though I 'm sure this is hardly trivial to implement.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's the chief reason why Live CD's probably won't work:CNL is seriously considering making available free Ubuntu Linux bootable "live CD" discs in its branches and by mail.
The discs would boot up Linux, run Firefox and be configured to go directly to CNL Bank's Web site.The entire purpose of online banking is to allow its subscribers to conduct their usual transactions in a way that integrates with their daily workflow.
This runs completely against that goal, since the customer would have to reboot their computer (which is an impractical solution in some situations and an impossible one in others) just to check their balances.
Completely unacceptable.The approach that I think is more practical (along with others here) is virtual PC access.
It would be killer if each online banking customer got a small, special-purpose Linux-based virtual PC that can only be controlled by their own Java clients and can only access their regular online banking web site.
Of course, it would probably have to be on a completely isolated network to be more effective.
That would be both isolated enough and practical enough to be a secure alternative to the way we bank online today, though I'm sure this is hardly trivial to implement...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620326</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Gerzel</author>
	<datestamp>1269525060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly, except here in this example the books are subsidized and tied to a contract with a bank.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , except here in this example the books are subsidized and tied to a contract with a bank .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, except here in this example the books are subsidized and tied to a contract with a bank.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620130</id>
	<title>Re:What about security patches?</title>
	<author>WD</author>
	<datestamp>1269523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the only site you are visiting is the bank, I'd say the chances of getting compromised by a drive-by attack are greatly reduced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the only site you are visiting is the bank , I 'd say the chances of getting compromised by a drive-by attack are greatly reduced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the only site you are visiting is the bank, I'd say the chances of getting compromised by a drive-by attack are greatly reduced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622310</id>
	<title>problem shifting...</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1269542460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This simply shifts the security problem from a typical Windows box to a linux distribution - that being on read-only media will remain static in terms of its vulnerability to future exploits.
<p>
Will it be more secure?  Maybe... for some period of time.  Long term, they're just moving the problem of keeping an end user's PC secure to repeatedly shipping physical media.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This simply shifts the security problem from a typical Windows box to a linux distribution - that being on read-only media will remain static in terms of its vulnerability to future exploits .
Will it be more secure ?
Maybe... for some period of time .
Long term , they 're just moving the problem of keeping an end user 's PC secure to repeatedly shipping physical media .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This simply shifts the security problem from a typical Windows box to a linux distribution - that being on read-only media will remain static in terms of its vulnerability to future exploits.
Will it be more secure?
Maybe... for some period of time.
Long term, they're just moving the problem of keeping an end user's PC secure to repeatedly shipping physical media.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620924</id>
	<title>So...</title>
	<author>mordejai</author>
	<datestamp>1269528900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Should I shut down my Ubuntu and boot Ubuntu instead?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should I shut down my Ubuntu and boot Ubuntu instead ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should I shut down my Ubuntu and boot Ubuntu instead?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620246</id>
	<title>This has been done before...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See <a href="http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html" title="heise.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html</a> [heise.de]<br>(in German. Babelfished translation here:<a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&amp;prev=\_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;layout=1&amp;eotf=1&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.heise.de\%2Fct\%2Fprojekte\%2FSicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&amp;prev=\_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;layout=1&amp;eotf=1&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.heise.de\%2Fct\%2Fprojekte\%2FSicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en</a> [google.com])</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See http : //www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html [ heise.de ] ( in German .
Babelfished translation here : http : //translate.google.com/translate ? js = y&amp;prev = \ _t&amp;hl = en&amp;ie = UTF-8&amp;layout = 1&amp;eotf = 1&amp;u = http \ % 3A \ % 2F \ % 2Fwww.heise.de \ % 2Fct \ % 2Fprojekte \ % 2FSicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html&amp;sl = de&amp;tl = en [ google.com ] )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/Sicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html [heise.de](in German.
Babelfished translation here:http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&amp;prev=\_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;layout=1&amp;eotf=1&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.heise.de\%2Fct\%2Fprojekte\%2FSicheres-Online-Banking-mit-Bankix-284099.html&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en [google.com])</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622764</id>
	<title>Answers to Common Questions</title>
	<author>el chief</author>
	<datestamp>1269634620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Q &amp; A

1. What is the point?

- Many business owners have had their bank accounts wiped out (via wire xfer). They do not get deposit insurance (it's only for individuals)

2. Why Linux and not something else?

- Linux is free. OSX is a good alternative, but it ain't free.

3. Why CD and not USB?

- CD is read only. Just a little extra precaution

4. Why not use those little FOBs that show a different password every 30 seconds? (Two factor auth)

- Cause you can get around those. Trojan can create Firefox plugin. Rewrite bank website homepage so you put in account number and password on homepage (instead of split over multiple pages). Trojan transmits this to its master, then logs you into bank. I've even seen trojans that will rewrite your bank account balance info so you don't know your money is gone til it's too late.

5. Why can't I run linux in a virtual machine in windows?

- Key loggers

6. But the LiveCD won't always be up to date

- True. But we're talking about using Linux and Firefox to browse only your bank's website. And your bank should send you a new disk every 3 months or so.

7. What about Windows PE off a CD?

- I guess. But I'd feel safer with Linux.

8. What else?

- DNS poisoning might be a problem. You might want to consider an old school dial up connection directly to your bank
- Make sure you close your browser immediately after logging out of your bank session
- If your BIOS gets rootkitted, you are SOL</htmltext>
<tokenext>Q &amp; A 1 .
What is the point ?
- Many business owners have had their bank accounts wiped out ( via wire xfer ) .
They do not get deposit insurance ( it 's only for individuals ) 2 .
Why Linux and not something else ?
- Linux is free .
OSX is a good alternative , but it ai n't free .
3. Why CD and not USB ?
- CD is read only .
Just a little extra precaution 4 .
Why not use those little FOBs that show a different password every 30 seconds ?
( Two factor auth ) - Cause you can get around those .
Trojan can create Firefox plugin .
Rewrite bank website homepage so you put in account number and password on homepage ( instead of split over multiple pages ) .
Trojan transmits this to its master , then logs you into bank .
I 've even seen trojans that will rewrite your bank account balance info so you do n't know your money is gone til it 's too late .
5. Why ca n't I run linux in a virtual machine in windows ?
- Key loggers 6 .
But the LiveCD wo n't always be up to date - True .
But we 're talking about using Linux and Firefox to browse only your bank 's website .
And your bank should send you a new disk every 3 months or so .
7. What about Windows PE off a CD ?
- I guess .
But I 'd feel safer with Linux .
8. What else ?
- DNS poisoning might be a problem .
You might want to consider an old school dial up connection directly to your bank - Make sure you close your browser immediately after logging out of your bank session - If your BIOS gets rootkitted , you are SOL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Q &amp; A

1.
What is the point?
- Many business owners have had their bank accounts wiped out (via wire xfer).
They do not get deposit insurance (it's only for individuals)

2.
Why Linux and not something else?
- Linux is free.
OSX is a good alternative, but it ain't free.
3. Why CD and not USB?
- CD is read only.
Just a little extra precaution

4.
Why not use those little FOBs that show a different password every 30 seconds?
(Two factor auth)

- Cause you can get around those.
Trojan can create Firefox plugin.
Rewrite bank website homepage so you put in account number and password on homepage (instead of split over multiple pages).
Trojan transmits this to its master, then logs you into bank.
I've even seen trojans that will rewrite your bank account balance info so you don't know your money is gone til it's too late.
5. Why can't I run linux in a virtual machine in windows?
- Key loggers

6.
But the LiveCD won't always be up to date

- True.
But we're talking about using Linux and Firefox to browse only your bank's website.
And your bank should send you a new disk every 3 months or so.
7. What about Windows PE off a CD?
- I guess.
But I'd feel safer with Linux.
8. What else?
- DNS poisoning might be a problem.
You might want to consider an old school dial up connection directly to your bank
- Make sure you close your browser immediately after logging out of your bank session
- If your BIOS gets rootkitted, you are SOL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619934</id>
	<title>Re:Convenience?</title>
	<author>HeavyD14</author>
	<datestamp>1269522840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think its a question of difficulty. It would be a total pain in the rear if I had to reboot every time I wanted to get on my bank's website. Or do I keep a dedicated bank terminal ready to got at any instant?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think its a question of difficulty .
It would be a total pain in the rear if I had to reboot every time I wanted to get on my bank 's website .
Or do I keep a dedicated bank terminal ready to got at any instant ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think its a question of difficulty.
It would be a total pain in the rear if I had to reboot every time I wanted to get on my bank's website.
Or do I keep a dedicated bank terminal ready to got at any instant?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622930</id>
	<title>the power of objects, physical</title>
	<author>Onymous Coward</author>
	<datestamp>1269636600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And folks were incredulous of the feasibility of banks handing out even just web certificates...</p><p>I guess once you've hurdled the barrier of handing someone an object, there's a lot of opportunity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And folks were incredulous of the feasibility of banks handing out even just web certificates...I guess once you 've hurdled the barrier of handing someone an object , there 's a lot of opportunity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And folks were incredulous of the feasibility of banks handing out even just web certificates...I guess once you've hurdled the barrier of handing someone an object, there's a lot of opportunity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31622172</id>
	<title>Re:BIOS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269540180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The $49 price is only valid when you sign a new service contract with Verizon. Ergo, the $25 netbook idea is going to be much harder than you propose.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The $ 49 price is only valid when you sign a new service contract with Verizon .
Ergo , the $ 25 netbook idea is going to be much harder than you propose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The $49 price is only valid when you sign a new service contract with Verizon.
Ergo, the $25 netbook idea is going to be much harder than you propose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619984</parent>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619934
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31623068
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619880
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620400
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620148
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620386
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620250
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619968
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620144
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620062
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620124
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620936
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621270
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31631794
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621658
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620716
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620796
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31626348
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31625586
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31619866
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31620606
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31632612
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_2350236.31621816
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