<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_25_1331255</id>
	<title>De Icaza Says Microsoft Has Shot<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET Ecosystem In Foot</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1269530400000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"Microsoft has <a href="http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/37880-microsoft-has-shot-net-ecosystem-in-foot-de-icaza">shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot</a> because of the constant threat of patent infringement that it has cast on the system, Novell vice-president and Microsoft MVP Miguel de Icaza is quoted as telling the website Software Development Times recently."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that it has cast on the system , Novell vice-president and Microsoft MVP Miguel de Icaza is quoted as telling the website Software Development Times recently .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that it has cast on the system, Novell vice-president and Microsoft MVP Miguel de Icaza is quoted as telling the website Software Development Times recently.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612190</id>
	<title>Remind me</title>
	<author>BlortHorc</author>
	<datestamp>1269537060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do we care what this 'tard says anymore?</p><p>I mean, seriously, why?</p><p>I have heard nothing but idiocy come out of his mouth for years, yet somehow people seem to keep giving him the time of day.</p><p>De Icaza is known for just one thing these days: he hasn't got a fucking clue. Been so long since he had one, seems he says something even vaguely sane, e.g. ".Net is a trap for the unwary" and it is newsworthy.</p><p>I vote we all ignore this tool from here on in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we care what this 'tard says anymore ? I mean , seriously , why ? I have heard nothing but idiocy come out of his mouth for years , yet somehow people seem to keep giving him the time of day.De Icaza is known for just one thing these days : he has n't got a fucking clue .
Been so long since he had one , seems he says something even vaguely sane , e.g .
" .Net is a trap for the unwary " and it is newsworthy.I vote we all ignore this tool from here on in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we care what this 'tard says anymore?I mean, seriously, why?I have heard nothing but idiocy come out of his mouth for years, yet somehow people seem to keep giving him the time of day.De Icaza is known for just one thing these days: he hasn't got a fucking clue.
Been so long since he had one, seems he says something even vaguely sane, e.g.
".Net is a trap for the unwary" and it is newsworthy.I vote we all ignore this tool from here on in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611774</id>
	<title>That took guts to admit, Miguel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone else has been saying that forever, but to hear it from <em>you</em>.. I'm impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone else has been saying that forever , but to hear it from you.. I 'm impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone else has been saying that forever, but to hear it from you.. I'm impressed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611856</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's like no one here understands the self-fulfilling prophecy.  You're all just content to scream into the echo chamber, patting each other on the backs with the left hand while you jerk off on each other with the right.</p><p>This poor guy tried to do what he thought was the right thing, but he didn't realize that the abject and irrational hatred for all things Microsoft would stymie him, and all you people can do is talk about how smart you are for having your retarded opinions.</p><p>God you assburgers nerds suck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like no one here understands the self-fulfilling prophecy .
You 're all just content to scream into the echo chamber , patting each other on the backs with the left hand while you jerk off on each other with the right.This poor guy tried to do what he thought was the right thing , but he did n't realize that the abject and irrational hatred for all things Microsoft would stymie him , and all you people can do is talk about how smart you are for having your retarded opinions.God you assburgers nerds suck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like no one here understands the self-fulfilling prophecy.
You're all just content to scream into the echo chamber, patting each other on the backs with the left hand while you jerk off on each other with the right.This poor guy tried to do what he thought was the right thing, but he didn't realize that the abject and irrational hatred for all things Microsoft would stymie him, and all you people can do is talk about how smart you are for having your retarded opinions.God you assburgers nerds suck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611770</id>
	<title>.NET is a Marketing Term</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Miguel was enamored with a lot of the technology behind ".NET", and thought he could outsmart Microsoft, in a sense. He thought he would be pragmatic and non-religious about the technology and adopt it.</p><p>What he never realized, and is maybe now only starting to realize, is that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is a *marketing* term. It was brilliantly crafted by Microsoft's marketing people. As smart as their developers are and as cool as Miguel thought their engineering and technology is, their marketing is far and away better and more sophisticated.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is a brilliant marketing strategy. Miguel didn't realize that by using the '.NET' term so incessantly, he was basically ensuring that he would be in the position that he's in now.</p><p>Sure, there was C# and the CLR. That was probably 10\% of ".NET", which was a overarching strategy for the *Windows* ecosystem at the time that involved extending Windows into the Internet as much as possible, including "tieing" it into all sorts of Microsoft-oriented services that were MSN at the time.</p><p>Think about it. VisualStudio.NET. What the !@#$ does that mean? It's a branding term. Miguel showed his complete lack of understanding of marketing by using that term so regularly and continuously WRT Mono.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Miguel was enamored with a lot of the technology behind " .NET " , and thought he could outsmart Microsoft , in a sense .
He thought he would be pragmatic and non-religious about the technology and adopt it.What he never realized , and is maybe now only starting to realize , is that .NET is a * marketing * term .
It was brilliantly crafted by Microsoft 's marketing people .
As smart as their developers are and as cool as Miguel thought their engineering and technology is , their marketing is far and away better and more sophisticated .
.NET is a brilliant marketing strategy .
Miguel did n't realize that by using the '.NET ' term so incessantly , he was basically ensuring that he would be in the position that he 's in now.Sure , there was C # and the CLR .
That was probably 10 \ % of " .NET " , which was a overarching strategy for the * Windows * ecosystem at the time that involved extending Windows into the Internet as much as possible , including " tieing " it into all sorts of Microsoft-oriented services that were MSN at the time.Think about it .
VisualStudio.NET. What the !
@ # $ does that mean ?
It 's a branding term .
Miguel showed his complete lack of understanding of marketing by using that term so regularly and continuously WRT Mono .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Miguel was enamored with a lot of the technology behind ".NET", and thought he could outsmart Microsoft, in a sense.
He thought he would be pragmatic and non-religious about the technology and adopt it.What he never realized, and is maybe now only starting to realize, is that .NET is a *marketing* term.
It was brilliantly crafted by Microsoft's marketing people.
As smart as their developers are and as cool as Miguel thought their engineering and technology is, their marketing is far and away better and more sophisticated.
.NET is a brilliant marketing strategy.
Miguel didn't realize that by using the '.NET' term so incessantly, he was basically ensuring that he would be in the position that he's in now.Sure, there was C# and the CLR.
That was probably 10\% of ".NET", which was a overarching strategy for the *Windows* ecosystem at the time that involved extending Windows into the Internet as much as possible, including "tieing" it into all sorts of Microsoft-oriented services that were MSN at the time.Think about it.
VisualStudio.NET. What the !
@#$ does that mean?
It's a branding term.
Miguel showed his complete lack of understanding of marketing by using that term so regularly and continuously WRT Mono.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615288</id>
	<title>Re:He was a retard</title>
	<author>Spy der Mann</author>
	<datestamp>1269546780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hate this phrase. "Microsoft threatening Linux", as if Linux was an end and not a means.</p><p>It's not Linux per-se which is threatened by Microsoft, but Free Software as a whole. Linux just happens to be the greatest example of Free Software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate this phrase .
" Microsoft threatening Linux " , as if Linux was an end and not a means.It 's not Linux per-se which is threatened by Microsoft , but Free Software as a whole .
Linux just happens to be the greatest example of Free Software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate this phrase.
"Microsoft threatening Linux", as if Linux was an end and not a means.It's not Linux per-se which is threatened by Microsoft, but Free Software as a whole.
Linux just happens to be the greatest example of Free Software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612994</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Waffle Iron</author>
	<datestamp>1269539520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Net is a platform, not an ecosystem</p></div><p>Both terms are silly metaphors. I vote that any silly metaphors should always be related to automobiles, so that makes<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net a "drivetrain".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Net is a platform , not an ecosystemBoth terms are silly metaphors .
I vote that any silly metaphors should always be related to automobiles , so that makes .Net a " drivetrain " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Net is a platform, not an ecosystemBoth terms are silly metaphors.
I vote that any silly metaphors should always be related to automobiles, so that makes .Net a "drivetrain".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</id>
	<title>Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think we should make a pact to STOP using the word "ecosystem" when it refers to computer systems.</p><p>It's the most annoying marketing-speak since "blogosphere" (or "twitterverse")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we should make a pact to STOP using the word " ecosystem " when it refers to computer systems.It 's the most annoying marketing-speak since " blogosphere " ( or " twitterverse " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we should make a pact to STOP using the word "ecosystem" when it refers to computer systems.It's the most annoying marketing-speak since "blogosphere" (or "twitterverse")</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612634</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>hargettp</author>
	<datestamp>1269538500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I read the headline and the biggest "DUH!!" came out of my mouth.</p><p>Thank god I have a private office....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I read the headline and the biggest " DUH ! !
" came out of my mouth.Thank god I have a private office... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I read the headline and the biggest "DUH!!
" came out of my mouth.Thank god I have a private office....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612246</id>
	<title>Re:MS is a more aggressive business than SUN</title>
	<author>Chris Burke</author>
	<datestamp>1269537240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>All MS is interested in is the bottom line.</i></p><p>I'd say they're equally interested in maintaining their OS monopoly which provides the foundation of their bottom line.  Sure they are intimately linked, but they're not the same, because MS will make moves that might hurt their bottom line but cement their OS monopoly.  Because if they lost that, then the bottom would fall out of their bottom line.</p><p>For example by your quite reasonable logic, MS never would have allowed free and cross-platform<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET implementations in the first place.  But with Linux/Free Software becoming an increasing threat to their OS dominance, and the market in general becoming vaguely in favor of cross-platform solutions, it made sense to convince fools like Miguel to waste their time developing Mono by promising not to drop the patent hammer.  All the effort that could have gone into a real free and cross-platform<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET competitor was instead spent on something Microsoft can eliminate any time they want.</p><p>You're absolutely right Sun is a less aggressive competitor than MS, and less cunning too.  Sun actually wanted to create a cross-platform runtime, but failed.  MS never wanted to have a real cross-platform language, they only wanted to trick people into thinking they did so Linux developers would waste their time on Mono and application developers would code to MS' proprietary standard thinking they were coding something open and cross-platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All MS is interested in is the bottom line.I 'd say they 're equally interested in maintaining their OS monopoly which provides the foundation of their bottom line .
Sure they are intimately linked , but they 're not the same , because MS will make moves that might hurt their bottom line but cement their OS monopoly .
Because if they lost that , then the bottom would fall out of their bottom line.For example by your quite reasonable logic , MS never would have allowed free and cross-platform .NET implementations in the first place .
But with Linux/Free Software becoming an increasing threat to their OS dominance , and the market in general becoming vaguely in favor of cross-platform solutions , it made sense to convince fools like Miguel to waste their time developing Mono by promising not to drop the patent hammer .
All the effort that could have gone into a real free and cross-platform .NET competitor was instead spent on something Microsoft can eliminate any time they want.You 're absolutely right Sun is a less aggressive competitor than MS , and less cunning too .
Sun actually wanted to create a cross-platform runtime , but failed .
MS never wanted to have a real cross-platform language , they only wanted to trick people into thinking they did so Linux developers would waste their time on Mono and application developers would code to MS ' proprietary standard thinking they were coding something open and cross-platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All MS is interested in is the bottom line.I'd say they're equally interested in maintaining their OS monopoly which provides the foundation of their bottom line.
Sure they are intimately linked, but they're not the same, because MS will make moves that might hurt their bottom line but cement their OS monopoly.
Because if they lost that, then the bottom would fall out of their bottom line.For example by your quite reasonable logic, MS never would have allowed free and cross-platform .NET implementations in the first place.
But with Linux/Free Software becoming an increasing threat to their OS dominance, and the market in general becoming vaguely in favor of cross-platform solutions, it made sense to convince fools like Miguel to waste their time developing Mono by promising not to drop the patent hammer.
All the effort that could have gone into a real free and cross-platform .NET competitor was instead spent on something Microsoft can eliminate any time they want.You're absolutely right Sun is a less aggressive competitor than MS, and less cunning too.
Sun actually wanted to create a cross-platform runtime, but failed.
MS never wanted to have a real cross-platform language, they only wanted to trick people into thinking they did so Linux developers would waste their time on Mono and application developers would code to MS' proprietary standard thinking they were coding something open and cross-platform.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611530</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since? SINCE? Have you been screwing with the space-time continuum again? "Ecosystem" was around before Twitter first started.</p><p>I half agree, though.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net is a platform, not an ecosystem, although "ecosystem" can be a reasonable term (e.g. for an interaction of technologies in a computer-based environment).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since ?
SINCE ? Have you been screwing with the space-time continuum again ?
" Ecosystem " was around before Twitter first started.I half agree , though .
.Net is a platform , not an ecosystem , although " ecosystem " can be a reasonable term ( e.g .
for an interaction of technologies in a computer-based environment ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since?
SINCE? Have you been screwing with the space-time continuum again?
"Ecosystem" was around before Twitter first started.I half agree, though.
.Net is a platform, not an ecosystem, although "ecosystem" can be a reasonable term (e.g.
for an interaction of technologies in a computer-based environment).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613048</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269539700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand what you mean by Microsoft Tax? I can develop in C# without giving any money to MS (well, I spose I need a copy of Windows..you might be able to run the compiler under Wine?)</p><p>And C# is quite awesome, so many useful libraries allows you to create apps really quickly.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I'd recommend it if you ever need to do any desktop apps.</p><p>Just a C/C++ Noob's opinion.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand what you mean by Microsoft Tax ?
I can develop in C # without giving any money to MS ( well , I spose I need a copy of Windows..you might be able to run the compiler under Wine ?
) And C # is quite awesome , so many useful libraries allows you to create apps really quickly .
: ) I 'd recommend it if you ever need to do any desktop apps.Just a C/C + + Noob 's opinion .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand what you mean by Microsoft Tax?
I can develop in C# without giving any money to MS (well, I spose I need a copy of Windows..you might be able to run the compiler under Wine?
)And C# is quite awesome, so many useful libraries allows you to create apps really quickly.
:) I'd recommend it if you ever need to do any desktop apps.Just a C/C++ Noob's opinion.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611736</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree it is annoying, but I don't know of another term that describes the community of developers/product vendors, customers,  and integrators who use/support a technology. Do you have an alternative suggestion?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree it is annoying , but I do n't know of another term that describes the community of developers/product vendors , customers , and integrators who use/support a technology .
Do you have an alternative suggestion ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree it is annoying, but I don't know of another term that describes the community of developers/product vendors, customers,  and integrators who use/support a technology.
Do you have an alternative suggestion?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</id>
	<title>O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>"He also claimed that Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET."</i></p><p>Wikipedia? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Really, no.</p><p>(Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software. It ran at half the speed of the Java version.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" He also claimed that Facebook , Google , Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET. " Wikipedia ?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no .
Really , no .
( Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C # on Mono for a while , when Java was n't yet sufficiently free software .
It ran at half the speed of the Java version .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "He also claimed that Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET."Wikipedia?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
Really, no.
(Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software.
It ran at half the speed of the Java version.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612062</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It says "could have" - not that it would run well...  You can definitely build a house out of gelatin....</htmltext>
<tokenext>It says " could have " - not that it would run well... You can definitely build a house out of gelatin... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It says "could have" - not that it would run well...  You can definitely build a house out of gelatin....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613396</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1269540900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think Stallman ever said that Microsoft "shot itself in the foot".  Nothing that moderated comes out of his mouth in regards to open vs closed software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think Stallman ever said that Microsoft " shot itself in the foot " .
Nothing that moderated comes out of his mouth in regards to open vs closed software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think Stallman ever said that Microsoft "shot itself in the foot".
Nothing that moderated comes out of his mouth in regards to open vs closed software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31619098</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>JAlexoi</author>
	<datestamp>1269518580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does Mono have OIN behind it? I believe that Linux kernel has all OIN members behind the kernel. I have no idea how OIN handles Mono.<br>
Otherwise Mono might just disappear in a light puff of smoke.<br> <br>
BTW: Nice work on Mono on your part.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Mono have OIN behind it ?
I believe that Linux kernel has all OIN members behind the kernel .
I have no idea how OIN handles Mono .
Otherwise Mono might just disappear in a light puff of smoke .
BTW : Nice work on Mono on your part .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does Mono have OIN behind it?
I believe that Linux kernel has all OIN members behind the kernel.
I have no idea how OIN handles Mono.
Otherwise Mono might just disappear in a light puff of smoke.
BTW: Nice work on Mono on your part.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612942</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Dan667</author>
	<datestamp>1269539400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, but it has been long enough for de Icaza to totally forget that and think it was his own idea.  Now it totally makes sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but it has been long enough for de Icaza to totally forget that and think it was his own idea .
Now it totally makes sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but it has been long enough for de Icaza to totally forget that and think it was his own idea.
Now it totally makes sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612496</id>
	<title>Re:MS is a more aggressive business than SUN</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269538020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before you write something on the topic, it helps to learn at least a little bit on that topic.</p><p>(yeah, yeah, I must be new here etc).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If they allow free implementations of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET then as far as they see it they'll lose sales on their<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET compiler</p></div><p>For starters, there's no such thing as a ".NET compiler". There's a C# compiler which outputs bytecode (like javac), and then there's the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET VM which runs it by JIT-compiling it to native code (like HotSpot).</p><p>The other thing is that both C# compiler and the VM from Microsoft are free.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before you write something on the topic , it helps to learn at least a little bit on that topic .
( yeah , yeah , I must be new here etc ) .If they allow free implementations of .NET then as far as they see it they 'll lose sales on their .NET compilerFor starters , there 's no such thing as a " .NET compiler " .
There 's a C # compiler which outputs bytecode ( like javac ) , and then there 's the .NET VM which runs it by JIT-compiling it to native code ( like HotSpot ) .The other thing is that both C # compiler and the VM from Microsoft are free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before you write something on the topic, it helps to learn at least a little bit on that topic.
(yeah, yeah, I must be new here etc).If they allow free implementations of .NET then as far as they see it they'll lose sales on their .NET compilerFor starters, there's no such thing as a ".NET compiler".
There's a C# compiler which outputs bytecode (like javac), and then there's the .NET VM which runs it by JIT-compiling it to native code (like HotSpot).The other thing is that both C# compiler and the VM from Microsoft are free.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611472</id>
	<title>Re:Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1269534960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft hasn't shot/killed anything, they just stopped pulling the puppet strings and making the silly squeaky noises that made it look like it was alive in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft has n't shot/killed anything , they just stopped pulling the puppet strings and making the silly squeaky noises that made it look like it was alive in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft hasn't shot/killed anything, they just stopped pulling the puppet strings and making the silly squeaky noises that made it look like it was alive in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618004</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>Ralish</author>
	<datestamp>1269513060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Any other Australians here disturbed by how similar that was to our Prime Minister's vernacular?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any other Australians here disturbed by how similar that was to our Prime Minister 's vernacular ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any other Australians here disturbed by how similar that was to our Prime Minister's vernacular?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611416</id>
	<title>Just now?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has been a cloud hanging over the Mono project from the start.</p><p>They (the Mono project) has pursued a strategy of  ignoring the problem, hand waving over it, or rationalizing it away (hence this story's FUD tag). Now they're finally admitting it's a problem.</p><p>The smart ones among us have foreseen this as an issue for years now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been a cloud hanging over the Mono project from the start.They ( the Mono project ) has pursued a strategy of ignoring the problem , hand waving over it , or rationalizing it away ( hence this story 's FUD tag ) .
Now they 're finally admitting it 's a problem.The smart ones among us have foreseen this as an issue for years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been a cloud hanging over the Mono project from the start.They (the Mono project) has pursued a strategy of  ignoring the problem, hand waving over it, or rationalizing it away (hence this story's FUD tag).
Now they're finally admitting it's a problem.The smart ones among us have foreseen this as an issue for years now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614030</id>
	<title>Re:Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269542640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.net rocks.<br>De Ichsa sucks</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.net rocks.De Ichsa sucks</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.net rocks.De Ichsa sucks</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612570</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>ebuck</author>
	<datestamp>1269538320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, I always though that spat was especially ironic, considering Miguel's fanatical devotion to reimplementing Microsoft technologies in Linux.  Miguel is on the shakier ground, as he's a devotee of a group that has an incentive to marginalize him.  On the other hand, Stallman doesn't look externally for guidance; he has more control over his fate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I always though that spat was especially ironic , considering Miguel 's fanatical devotion to reimplementing Microsoft technologies in Linux .
Miguel is on the shakier ground , as he 's a devotee of a group that has an incentive to marginalize him .
On the other hand , Stallman does n't look externally for guidance ; he has more control over his fate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I always though that spat was especially ironic, considering Miguel's fanatical devotion to reimplementing Microsoft technologies in Linux.
Miguel is on the shakier ground, as he's a devotee of a group that has an incentive to marginalize him.
On the other hand, Stallman doesn't look externally for guidance; he has more control over his fate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612686</id>
	<title>Re:So Miguel finally figured it out?</title>
	<author>g4b</author>
	<datestamp>1269538680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, Miguel just loses an ambition in every release-cycle, now he has lost one, but you can still get it back by editing some textfiles in his home-lobe. Don't forget to delete his temporal lobe after that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , Miguel just loses an ambition in every release-cycle , now he has lost one , but you can still get it back by editing some textfiles in his home-lobe .
Do n't forget to delete his temporal lobe after that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, Miguel just loses an ambition in every release-cycle, now he has lost one, but you can still get it back by editing some textfiles in his home-lobe.
Don't forget to delete his temporal lobe after that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31620668</id>
	<title>Hello</title>
	<author>Junior J. Junior III</author>
	<datestamp>1269527340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hello.  My name is Miguel de Icaza.  You killed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.  Prepare to die.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hello .
My name is Miguel de Icaza .
You killed .NET .
Prepare to die .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hello.
My name is Miguel de Icaza.
You killed .NET.
Prepare to die.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611740</id>
	<title>\SHIT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>(I always ]brin6 my</htmltext>
<tokenext>( I always ] brin6 my</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(I always ]brin6 my</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613492</id>
	<title>Re:Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269541140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No one gives a shit that uses<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.</p><p>No one does anything of importance and cares about Mono.  Unless your app was written to deal with the inadequacies of Mono its unlikely that any non-trivial app will work in Mono.  There is no concern by anyone with a non-trivial app about what Mono licensing issues might mean because Mono is incapable of running any app that matters.</p><p>Rant, whine, moan, talk out your ass, lie, cheat and steal to make it sound like MS is the reason Mono isn't taking off<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... won't make it so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... won't change the fact that Mono isn't even second best, its not even in the running, it didn't start the race.</p><p>Yes, this is a rant, I want Mono to be useful so I can use it, but licensing has never been the issue, its gotta actually work before the licensing issues are anything I could give a shit about.</p><p>Perhaps making the product actually work would get the project further than coming up with some political bullshit reasons for its utter and complete failure to provide any value.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No one gives a shit that uses .NET.No one does anything of importance and cares about Mono .
Unless your app was written to deal with the inadequacies of Mono its unlikely that any non-trivial app will work in Mono .
There is no concern by anyone with a non-trivial app about what Mono licensing issues might mean because Mono is incapable of running any app that matters.Rant , whine , moan , talk out your ass , lie , cheat and steal to make it sound like MS is the reason Mono is n't taking off ... wo n't make it so ... wo n't change the fact that Mono is n't even second best , its not even in the running , it did n't start the race.Yes , this is a rant , I want Mono to be useful so I can use it , but licensing has never been the issue , its got ta actually work before the licensing issues are anything I could give a shit about.Perhaps making the product actually work would get the project further than coming up with some political bullshit reasons for its utter and complete failure to provide any value .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one gives a shit that uses .NET.No one does anything of importance and cares about Mono.
Unless your app was written to deal with the inadequacies of Mono its unlikely that any non-trivial app will work in Mono.
There is no concern by anyone with a non-trivial app about what Mono licensing issues might mean because Mono is incapable of running any app that matters.Rant, whine, moan, talk out your ass, lie, cheat and steal to make it sound like MS is the reason Mono isn't taking off ... won't make it so ... won't change the fact that Mono isn't even second best, its not even in the running, it didn't start the race.Yes, this is a rant, I want Mono to be useful so I can use it, but licensing has never been the issue, its gotta actually work before the licensing issues are anything I could give a shit about.Perhaps making the product actually work would get the project further than coming up with some political bullshit reasons for its utter and complete failure to provide any value.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612616</id>
	<title>How about interested parties</title>
	<author>Viol8</author>
	<datestamp>1269538440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or even just users and suppliers. Why does they have to be a single catchy buzzword? Or are management types really so dumb they can only handle one word at a time?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or even just users and suppliers .
Why does they have to be a single catchy buzzword ?
Or are management types really so dumb they can only handle one word at a time ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or even just users and suppliers.
Why does they have to be a single catchy buzzword?
Or are management types really so dumb they can only handle one word at a time?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612136</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>While it may not always submit everything it creates to ECMA, Microsoft is committed to standards as a company, specifically and especially as they relate to developers, Watson said. "Innovation doesn't happen in standards bodies, and customer demand doesn't slow down for standards bodies."</p></div></blockquote><p>*cough    (Internet Explorer) *cough</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While it may not always submit everything it creates to ECMA , Microsoft is committed to standards as a company , specifically and especially as they relate to developers , Watson said .
" Innovation does n't happen in standards bodies , and customer demand does n't slow down for standards bodies .
" * cough ( Internet Explorer ) * cough</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it may not always submit everything it creates to ECMA, Microsoft is committed to standards as a company, specifically and especially as they relate to developers, Watson said.
"Innovation doesn't happen in standards bodies, and customer demand doesn't slow down for standards bodies.
"*cough    (Internet Explorer) *cough
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612716</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft needs to get a grip</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269538740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space. Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java, Ruby, Python, Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end. There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.</p></div><p>There were always alternatives to MS developer tools, going back over a decade. On DOS, Turbo Pascal was awesome. On early Windows versions, Delphi ate everyone's launch (VB was originally released by and large in response to Delphi). On the web, PHP and Java have been around before ASP, much less ASP.NET, got there.</p><p>That never stopped Microsoft from making a profit on selling developer tools, and from people buying them. There are various reasons for that, but one of them is that what we offer today is a single bundle that does it all well, and is easy to use. You obtain a Visual Studio DVD (or download the Express version), install from it, and you get a complete set of tools covering every aspect of development (including testing web server and database), all integrated together out of the box in a single IDE, and with a single cross-referenced documentation library.</p><p>Well, that, and then there are features that competitors just don't have, at least in some areas. For example, last I checked, Java had neither first-class functions (lambdas) nor anything analogous to LINQ (sequence comprehensions). WPF/XAML beats Swing on both power and ease of making good layouts any day. And so on. Though I'll grant you that it goes both ways, and Visual Studio editor is no match for e.g. Eclipse when it comes to the sheer number of refactoring operations available; or that there's no MS ORM offering that is as full-featured as Hibernate.</p><p>By the way, it's interesting that you've mentioned jQuery. Do you know that Microsoft is one of the biggest jQuery sponsors today, and that the framework will ship in Visual Studio 2010 (already shipped in betas), with full transparent integration out of the box - e.g. JS code completion &amp; debugging? In fact, if you create a new ASP.NET project from default template in VS2010, it'll have jQuery in it by default.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space .
Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java , Ruby , Python , Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end .
There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.There were always alternatives to MS developer tools , going back over a decade .
On DOS , Turbo Pascal was awesome .
On early Windows versions , Delphi ate everyone 's launch ( VB was originally released by and large in response to Delphi ) .
On the web , PHP and Java have been around before ASP , much less ASP.NET , got there.That never stopped Microsoft from making a profit on selling developer tools , and from people buying them .
There are various reasons for that , but one of them is that what we offer today is a single bundle that does it all well , and is easy to use .
You obtain a Visual Studio DVD ( or download the Express version ) , install from it , and you get a complete set of tools covering every aspect of development ( including testing web server and database ) , all integrated together out of the box in a single IDE , and with a single cross-referenced documentation library.Well , that , and then there are features that competitors just do n't have , at least in some areas .
For example , last I checked , Java had neither first-class functions ( lambdas ) nor anything analogous to LINQ ( sequence comprehensions ) .
WPF/XAML beats Swing on both power and ease of making good layouts any day .
And so on .
Though I 'll grant you that it goes both ways , and Visual Studio editor is no match for e.g .
Eclipse when it comes to the sheer number of refactoring operations available ; or that there 's no MS ORM offering that is as full-featured as Hibernate.By the way , it 's interesting that you 've mentioned jQuery .
Do you know that Microsoft is one of the biggest jQuery sponsors today , and that the framework will ship in Visual Studio 2010 ( already shipped in betas ) , with full transparent integration out of the box - e.g .
JS code completion &amp; debugging ?
In fact , if you create a new ASP.NET project from default template in VS2010 , it 'll have jQuery in it by default .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space.
Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java, Ruby, Python, Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end.
There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.There were always alternatives to MS developer tools, going back over a decade.
On DOS, Turbo Pascal was awesome.
On early Windows versions, Delphi ate everyone's launch (VB was originally released by and large in response to Delphi).
On the web, PHP and Java have been around before ASP, much less ASP.NET, got there.That never stopped Microsoft from making a profit on selling developer tools, and from people buying them.
There are various reasons for that, but one of them is that what we offer today is a single bundle that does it all well, and is easy to use.
You obtain a Visual Studio DVD (or download the Express version), install from it, and you get a complete set of tools covering every aspect of development (including testing web server and database), all integrated together out of the box in a single IDE, and with a single cross-referenced documentation library.Well, that, and then there are features that competitors just don't have, at least in some areas.
For example, last I checked, Java had neither first-class functions (lambdas) nor anything analogous to LINQ (sequence comprehensions).
WPF/XAML beats Swing on both power and ease of making good layouts any day.
And so on.
Though I'll grant you that it goes both ways, and Visual Studio editor is no match for e.g.
Eclipse when it comes to the sheer number of refactoring operations available; or that there's no MS ORM offering that is as full-featured as Hibernate.By the way, it's interesting that you've mentioned jQuery.
Do you know that Microsoft is one of the biggest jQuery sponsors today, and that the framework will ship in Visual Studio 2010 (already shipped in betas), with full transparent integration out of the box - e.g.
JS code completion &amp; debugging?
In fact, if you create a new ASP.NET project from default template in VS2010, it'll have jQuery in it by default.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611706</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>think\_nix</author>
	<datestamp>1269535680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Strange though how he is not listed under <a href="http://www.novell.com/company/bios/" title="novell.com">http://www.novell.com/company/bios/</a> [novell.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>I used to respect that company (NetWare 3.11, NDS, NetWare 5.0, GroupWise, ZenWorks, all top-notch tech, IMHO).</p><p>Now, a tad less.</p></div><p>Yeah just like when Mr. Hovsepian took his new seat as CEO he said he would do so much for linux and the linux community. A few months later Novell axe's a bunch of key KDE developers, and later on let go a bunch more of there development teams on SUSE / opensuse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Strange though how he is not listed under http : //www.novell.com/company/bios/ [ novell.com ] I used to respect that company ( NetWare 3.11 , NDS , NetWare 5.0 , GroupWise , ZenWorks , all top-notch tech , IMHO ) .Now , a tad less.Yeah just like when Mr. Hovsepian took his new seat as CEO he said he would do so much for linux and the linux community .
A few months later Novell axe 's a bunch of key KDE developers , and later on let go a bunch more of there development teams on SUSE / opensuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Strange though how he is not listed under http://www.novell.com/company/bios/ [novell.com] I used to respect that company (NetWare 3.11, NDS, NetWare 5.0, GroupWise, ZenWorks, all top-notch tech, IMHO).Now, a tad less.Yeah just like when Mr. Hovsepian took his new seat as CEO he said he would do so much for linux and the linux community.
A few months later Novell axe's a bunch of key KDE developers, and later on let go a bunch more of there development teams on SUSE / opensuse.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612146</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them."</p><p>In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward. "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with."</p></div><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr><i>::Incredibly slow facepalm::</i> </p><p>What the hell kind of rhetorical diversion that was?</p><p> <i>"I love air", de Icaza was quoted as saying. "Breathing oxygen is a wonderful thing. I couldn't get through a single day without oxygen."</i> </p><p> <i>In practice, oxygen only accounts for about 20\% of Earth's atmosphere, said author and consultant Ted Neward. "O2 just isn't something that the open source community wants to inhale frequently."</i> </p><p>Tip: Java isn't popular because people work on multiple JVMs (however small in their number they might be). The point de Icaza was making is that Java is popular because <em>there can be</em> multiple JVMs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations , the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [ Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer ] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them .
" In practice , the Java community only uses two or three JVMs ( IBM 's , JRockit , and OpenJDK from Sun ) , while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects , said author and consultant Ted Neward .
" Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with .
" : : Incredibly slow facepalm : : What the hell kind of rhetorical diversion that was ?
" I love air " , de Icaza was quoted as saying .
" Breathing oxygen is a wonderful thing .
I could n't get through a single day without oxygen .
" In practice , oxygen only accounts for about 20 \ % of Earth 's atmosphere , said author and consultant Ted Neward .
" O2 just is n't something that the open source community wants to inhale frequently .
" Tip : Java is n't popular because people work on multiple JVMs ( however small in their number they might be ) .
The point de Icaza was making is that Java is popular because there can be multiple JVMs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them.
"In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward.
"Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with.
" ::Incredibly slow facepalm:: What the hell kind of rhetorical diversion that was?
"I love air", de Icaza was quoted as saying.
"Breathing oxygen is a wonderful thing.
I couldn't get through a single day without oxygen.
"  In practice, oxygen only accounts for about 20\% of Earth's atmosphere, said author and consultant Ted Neward.
"O2 just isn't something that the open source community wants to inhale frequently.
" Tip: Java isn't popular because people work on multiple JVMs (however small in their number they might be).
The point de Icaza was making is that Java is popular because there can be multiple JVMs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615656</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>RightSaidFred99</author>
	<datestamp>1269547920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't know what you're talking about.  Platform choice is not nearly as important as architecture and coding efficiency.  I'm sure in your little world<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET isn't used for much of anything, but out in the real world it's used a for tons of corporate mission critical software as well as in other fields.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't know what you 're talking about .
Platform choice is not nearly as important as architecture and coding efficiency .
I 'm sure in your little world .NET is n't used for much of anything , but out in the real world it 's used a for tons of corporate mission critical software as well as in other fields .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't know what you're talking about.
Platform choice is not nearly as important as architecture and coding efficiency.
I'm sure in your little world .NET isn't used for much of anything, but out in the real world it's used a for tons of corporate mission critical software as well as in other fields.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614586</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>randomencounter</author>
	<datestamp>1269544560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is useless to hate a rabid dog, but it is dangerous to ignore that it is a rabid dog and will bite anyone who comes too close.</p><p>Microsoft is not to be loved or hated, but it is to be treated as a dangerous animal and kept in its place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is useless to hate a rabid dog , but it is dangerous to ignore that it is a rabid dog and will bite anyone who comes too close.Microsoft is not to be loved or hated , but it is to be treated as a dangerous animal and kept in its place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is useless to hate a rabid dog, but it is dangerous to ignore that it is a rabid dog and will bite anyone who comes too close.Microsoft is not to be loved or hated, but it is to be treated as a dangerous animal and kept in its place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611920</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>C# as a language is as close to C++ as Java.<br>And for a functional language that runs on Java platform try Scala (it's really nice). For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there's Groovy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>C # as a language is as close to C + + as Java.And for a functional language that runs on Java platform try Scala ( it 's really nice ) .
For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there 's Groovy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>C# as a language is as close to C++ as Java.And for a functional language that runs on Java platform try Scala (it's really nice).
For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there's Groovy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31624348</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269608940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damn you, Miguel! Why SQ-<strong>lite</strong>??!?!?<br>Why keep teasing like this still after more than 3 full years?<br>Dolly the clone is not amused.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn you , Miguel !
Why SQ-lite ? ? ! ? !
? Why keep teasing like this still after more than 3 full years ? Dolly the clone is not amused .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn you, Miguel!
Why SQ-lite??!?!
?Why keep teasing like this still after more than 3 full years?Dolly the clone is not amused.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31622586</id>
	<title>Ya think?</title>
	<author>Compaqt</author>
	<datestamp>1269545640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After years of free software advocates pointing out the dangers of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET clone Mono and consequent belittling by Microsoft apologists, Miguel finally comes to his senses. (This follows up on GNOME removing spatial browsing as a default in Nautilus.)</p><p>Well, better late than never.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After years of free software advocates pointing out the dangers of .NET clone Mono and consequent belittling by Microsoft apologists , Miguel finally comes to his senses .
( This follows up on GNOME removing spatial browsing as a default in Nautilus .
) Well , better late than never .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After years of free software advocates pointing out the dangers of .NET clone Mono and consequent belittling by Microsoft apologists, Miguel finally comes to his senses.
(This follows up on GNOME removing spatial browsing as a default in Nautilus.
)Well, better late than never.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613704</id>
	<title>Bingo</title>
	<author>abulafia</author>
	<datestamp>1269541740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a classic jilted lover, fretting that he couldn't change her evil ways.</p><p>The country song of Open Source.</p><p>But I mean, seriously, he was lashing out at anyone who pointed out that a promise from Microsoft, <i>even if sincere at the time</i>, is still only a promise until it no longer seems in their own interest. And now, more in anger than sorrow, he's learned his lesson.</p><p>I'm thinking he'll need to re-learn it at least once before he'll have earned a VP title. Business is almost never for the idealistic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a classic jilted lover , fretting that he could n't change her evil ways.The country song of Open Source.But I mean , seriously , he was lashing out at anyone who pointed out that a promise from Microsoft , even if sincere at the time , is still only a promise until it no longer seems in their own interest .
And now , more in anger than sorrow , he 's learned his lesson.I 'm thinking he 'll need to re-learn it at least once before he 'll have earned a VP title .
Business is almost never for the idealistic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a classic jilted lover, fretting that he couldn't change her evil ways.The country song of Open Source.But I mean, seriously, he was lashing out at anyone who pointed out that a promise from Microsoft, even if sincere at the time, is still only a promise until it no longer seems in their own interest.
And now, more in anger than sorrow, he's learned his lesson.I'm thinking he'll need to re-learn it at least once before he'll have earned a VP title.
Business is almost never for the idealistic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615816</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>weekendgeek</author>
	<datestamp>1269548520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds like win-win, outside the box, strategic imperative.  I think if we crunch the numbers, we'll find that, going forward, if we run this up the flagpole, most will salute.  Ping me if you need me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds like win-win , outside the box , strategic imperative .
I think if we crunch the numbers , we 'll find that , going forward , if we run this up the flagpole , most will salute .
Ping me if you need me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds like win-win, outside the box, strategic imperative.
I think if we crunch the numbers, we'll find that, going forward, if we run this up the flagpole, most will salute.
Ping me if you need me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611716</id>
	<title>So, Miguel</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1269535740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>can we get that diseased crap out of GNOME?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>can we get that diseased crap out of GNOME ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>can we get that diseased crap out of GNOME?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613264</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1269540480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>he's just getting tired of having to explain away the threats over and over again. I really don't think he's changed his love for Microsoft, he just wishes this audience wasn't so smart about knowing any Microsoft technology is a threat and Microsoft's constant patent related activities just fuel the 'threat' side of the arguments.<br><br>Microsoft hasn't changed its ways in over 20 years and I doubt Miguel has changed. He's pissed he can't win the discussions and Microsoft is making that difficult for him. That's how I see it.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>he 's just getting tired of having to explain away the threats over and over again .
I really do n't think he 's changed his love for Microsoft , he just wishes this audience was n't so smart about knowing any Microsoft technology is a threat and Microsoft 's constant patent related activities just fuel the 'threat ' side of the arguments.Microsoft has n't changed its ways in over 20 years and I doubt Miguel has changed .
He 's pissed he ca n't win the discussions and Microsoft is making that difficult for him .
That 's how I see it.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>he's just getting tired of having to explain away the threats over and over again.
I really don't think he's changed his love for Microsoft, he just wishes this audience wasn't so smart about knowing any Microsoft technology is a threat and Microsoft's constant patent related activities just fuel the 'threat' side of the arguments.Microsoft hasn't changed its ways in over 20 years and I doubt Miguel has changed.
He's pissed he can't win the discussions and Microsoft is making that difficult for him.
That's how I see it.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615666</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1269547980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Much of userspace is hidden behind the scenes and often not related to the desktop directly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Much of userspace is hidden behind the scenes and often not related to the desktop directly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Much of userspace is hidden behind the scenes and often not related to the desktop directly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614260</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611808</id>
	<title>Microsoft needs to get a grip</title>
	<author>MikeRT</author>
	<datestamp>1269535980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Put aside the fact that De Icaza is now eating his own words about the patent issue and look at the issue itself. Microsoft simply has not accepted how things have begun to change. Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space. Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java, Ruby, Python, Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end. There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.</p><p>Microsoft needs to realize that developers have options now and their threats are empty. Most developers would laugh at their attempts to control things now and simply say "have fun with that" as they switch to some pure open source approach or one built around a hybrid of open and closed source from various projects and vendors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Put aside the fact that De Icaza is now eating his own words about the patent issue and look at the issue itself .
Microsoft simply has not accepted how things have begun to change .
Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space .
Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java , Ruby , Python , Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end .
There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.Microsoft needs to realize that developers have options now and their threats are empty .
Most developers would laugh at their attempts to control things now and simply say " have fun with that " as they switch to some pure open source approach or one built around a hybrid of open and closed source from various projects and vendors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put aside the fact that De Icaza is now eating his own words about the patent issue and look at the issue itself.
Microsoft simply has not accepted how things have begun to change.
Developers rarely need them the way that they used to need them in the business space.
Most large enterprise apps can now be entirely built in Java, Ruby, Python, Perl or PHP for the backend and JavaScript with a toolkit like jQuery or ExtJs for the front end.
There is not a single need for Microsoft in that whole space.Microsoft needs to realize that developers have options now and their threats are empty.
Most developers would laugh at their attempts to control things now and simply say "have fun with that" as they switch to some pure open source approach or one built around a hybrid of open and closed source from various projects and vendors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31626280</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>N1ckR</author>
	<datestamp>1269618420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is now the complete article available <a href="http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34183" title="sdtimes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34183</a> [sdtimes.com] which has far more text than the above [google cached] article.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is now the complete article available http : //www.sdtimes.com/link/34183 [ sdtimes.com ] which has far more text than the above [ google cached ] article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is now the complete article available http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34183 [sdtimes.com] which has far more text than the above [google cached] article.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614012</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269542580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about "community"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about " community " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about "community"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31652584</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1269789480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then try Haskell. It&rsquo;s the better F#, and THE functional language to learn and use.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then try Haskell .
It    s the better F # , and THE functional language to learn and use .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then try Haskell.
It’s the better F#, and THE functional language to learn and use.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613010</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>wmac</author>
	<datestamp>1269539640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was administrator in a university, a financial association and a bank. I HATE Netware. Specially terrible implementation, reliability and complexity of NDS.
<br> <br>
I was also a Netware network programmer in another company for 1.5 years and established a new TCP/IP based network software (under 3.11, 4.XX,5.00) for them. Again the API and Watcom C were headache.
<br> <br>
I remember nights when I worked until the morning to bring up the servers or clients or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... while my windows servers did not give me any problem during 5 years of my service in that bank. Linux and Unix servers were less headache after windows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was administrator in a university , a financial association and a bank .
I HATE Netware .
Specially terrible implementation , reliability and complexity of NDS .
I was also a Netware network programmer in another company for 1.5 years and established a new TCP/IP based network software ( under 3.11 , 4.XX,5.00 ) for them .
Again the API and Watcom C were headache .
I remember nights when I worked until the morning to bring up the servers or clients or ... or ... or ... while my windows servers did not give me any problem during 5 years of my service in that bank .
Linux and Unix servers were less headache after windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was administrator in a university, a financial association and a bank.
I HATE Netware.
Specially terrible implementation, reliability and complexity of NDS.
I was also a Netware network programmer in another company for 1.5 years and established a new TCP/IP based network software (under 3.11, 4.XX,5.00) for them.
Again the API and Watcom C were headache.
I remember nights when I worked until the morning to bring up the servers or clients or ... or ... or ... while my windows servers did not give me any problem during 5 years of my service in that bank.
Linux and Unix servers were less headache after windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614434</id>
	<title>So what happens to Mono now?</title>
	<author>DdJ</author>
	<datestamp>1269543900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are we going to see people back away from Mono?  Are we going to see <em>him</em> back away from Mono?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are we going to see people back away from Mono ?
Are we going to see him back away from Mono ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are we going to see people back away from Mono?
Are we going to see him back away from Mono?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615122</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269546120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft is committed to standards as a company, specifically and especially as they relate to developers, Watson said.</p></div><p>Can't.... breathe.... laughing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. hard...</p><p>gasp.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft is committed to standards as a company , specifically and especially as they relate to developers , Watson said.Ca n't.... breathe.... laughing ... too .. hard...gasp .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft is committed to standards as a company, specifically and especially as they relate to developers, Watson said.Can't.... breathe.... laughing ... too .. hard...gasp.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614260</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269543300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write.  He then rewrote it, emphasizing that simple words help communicate.  Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is, but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners, because his real message is hidden behind confusion.</p><p>Besides "ecosystem" I'd also like to nominate "userspace" for deletion.  How about just calling it the "desktop".  The stuff hidden behind the scenes can be called the "kernel"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write .
He then rewrote it , emphasizing that simple words help communicate .
Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is , but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners , because his real message is hidden behind confusion.Besides " ecosystem " I 'd also like to nominate " userspace " for deletion .
How about just calling it the " desktop " .
The stuff hidden behind the scenes can be called the " kernel "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write.
He then rewrote it, emphasizing that simple words help communicate.
Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is, but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners, because his real message is hidden behind confusion.Besides "ecosystem" I'd also like to nominate "userspace" for deletion.
How about just calling it the "desktop".
The stuff hidden behind the scenes can be called the "kernel"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614806</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>miguel</author>
	<datestamp>1269545160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rather, submit patches to replace System.Data with Sqlite-net and you have protection from Microsoft patents on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather , submit patches to replace System.Data with Sqlite-net and you have protection from Microsoft patents on .NET</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather, submit patches to replace System.Data with Sqlite-net and you have protection from Microsoft patents on .NET</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611962</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>Robert Zenz</author>
	<datestamp>1269536460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>No problem: sudo apt-get remove mono-runtime mono-complete</htmltext>
<tokenext>No problem : sudo apt-get remove mono-runtime mono-complete</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No problem: sudo apt-get remove mono-runtime mono-complete</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613498</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1269541200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless Icaza comes out and claims these statements, I'm kinda leaning toward them being bullshit and that's why the article was pulled.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless Icaza comes out and claims these statements , I 'm kinda leaning toward them being bullshit and that 's why the article was pulled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless Icaza comes out and claims these statements, I'm kinda leaning toward them being bullshit and that's why the article was pulled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611732</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?</i></p><p>Of course he is.</p><p>And we're allowed to roll our eyes and say "No shit, Sherlock! Welcome to five years ago!"</p><p>I mean sure he's slow on the uptake.  Sure it was pretty silly to dismiss the quite plain threat of Microsoft's patents with "Oh but they won't do that!"  But hey, at least the "but they won't do that!" turns into "gee, it's looking like that's exactly what they plan to do" eventually.</p><p>Doesn't mean I think he's any smarter than I did yesterday.  But sure he's allowed to change his mind, and that's a good thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now ? Of course he is.And we 're allowed to roll our eyes and say " No shit , Sherlock !
Welcome to five years ago !
" I mean sure he 's slow on the uptake .
Sure it was pretty silly to dismiss the quite plain threat of Microsoft 's patents with " Oh but they wo n't do that !
" But hey , at least the " but they wo n't do that !
" turns into " gee , it 's looking like that 's exactly what they plan to do " eventually.Does n't mean I think he 's any smarter than I did yesterday .
But sure he 's allowed to change his mind , and that 's a good thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?Of course he is.And we're allowed to roll our eyes and say "No shit, Sherlock!
Welcome to five years ago!
"I mean sure he's slow on the uptake.
Sure it was pretty silly to dismiss the quite plain threat of Microsoft's patents with "Oh but they won't do that!
"  But hey, at least the "but they won't do that!
" turns into "gee, it's looking like that's exactly what they plan to do" eventually.Doesn't mean I think he's any smarter than I did yesterday.
But sure he's allowed to change his mind, and that's a good thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</id>
	<title>Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>bigtomrodney</author>
	<datestamp>1269534420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a little rich for De Icaza to be coming out and saying this now. He's spent years shouting down anyone that warned him about the patent scenario with Microsoft's technologies and yet he continued to proselytise. He's worked away on Mono and Silverlight and made sure to get them included wherever he could.<br> <br>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a little rich for De Icaza to be coming out and saying this now .
He 's spent years shouting down anyone that warned him about the patent scenario with Microsoft 's technologies and yet he continued to proselytise .
He 's worked away on Mono and Silverlight and made sure to get them included wherever he could .
So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a little rich for De Icaza to be coming out and saying this now.
He's spent years shouting down anyone that warned him about the patent scenario with Microsoft's technologies and yet he continued to proselytise.
He's worked away on Mono and Silverlight and made sure to get them included wherever he could.
So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618236</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1269514140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could see there may be some problems...</p><p>The following packaegs will be REMOVED:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; f-spot libart2.0-cil libflickrnet2.2-cil libgconf2.0-cil libglade2.0-cil<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.2a-cil libgnome-keyring1.0-cil libgnome-vfs2.0-cil<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; libgnome2.24-cil libgnomepanel2.24-cil libgtk2.0-cil<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; libndesk-dbus1.0-cil tomboy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could see there may be some problems...The following packaegs will be REMOVED :     f-spot libart2.0-cil libflickrnet2.2-cil libgconf2.0-cil libglade2.0-cil     libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.2a-cil libgnome-keyring1.0-cil libgnome-vfs2.0-cil     libgnome2.24-cil libgnomepanel2.24-cil libgtk2.0-cil     libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil     libndesk-dbus1.0-cil tomboy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could see there may be some problems...The following packaegs will be REMOVED:
    f-spot libart2.0-cil libflickrnet2.2-cil libgconf2.0-cil libglade2.0-cil
    libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.2a-cil libgnome-keyring1.0-cil libgnome-vfs2.0-cil
    libgnome2.24-cil libgnomepanel2.24-cil libgtk2.0-cil
    libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil
    libndesk-dbus1.0-cil tomboy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612358</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>MrNemesis</author>
	<datestamp>1269537600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In definitely-not-related-news; Novell are in serious financial trouble, and hence the possibility of losing the faith-based patent amnesty/MAD Microsoft have with Novell.</p><p>Everyone else bitching about Mono has known about this possibility for years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In definitely-not-related-news ; Novell are in serious financial trouble , and hence the possibility of losing the faith-based patent amnesty/MAD Microsoft have with Novell.Everyone else bitching about Mono has known about this possibility for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In definitely-not-related-news; Novell are in serious financial trouble, and hence the possibility of losing the faith-based patent amnesty/MAD Microsoft have with Novell.Everyone else bitching about Mono has known about this possibility for years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613236</id>
	<title>.NET too tied to OS</title>
	<author>mugnyte</author>
	<datestamp>1269540420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Some of the strongest minds in computer science have built out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, and continue to do so.  There are some practicality gaps, but today the majority of the corporate world is powered by<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET devs, for better or worse.</p><p>
&nbsp; However, this many years into the platform, it's starting to show it's age.  From<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 1.0 applications, laden with crude pinvokes to Win32 API's, GDI+ silliness, messy ADO.NET integration, through 2.0, 3.5, 4.0, the "Enterprise" helper classes, the "Foundation Extensions", the integration of pseudo-SQL declarative syntax with LINQ, Entity Relation classes, Unity, security, contracts, plus all of the layers of ASP.NET tools<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... don't VS's forget code analysis, test suites, code coverage, profiling, generated documentation... there are many more but you get the point...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...all this is shaping up to be a very MS-centric view of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET universe.  Which is a mistake, De Icaza seems to imply. I wholeheartedly agree. While the computing world abandons PCs for most tasks (gaming, editing information aside) and info consumption is done via smaller devices, on a variety of hardware &amp; OS's, MS has bound<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET to their OS deployments - and there will be many other OS's talking in that space.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; This is Microsoft's biggest gamble with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET:  That as the OS lives or dies, so does this platform.  Really, it could be bigger than Windows.  If MS shipping a full (even licensed) 4.0+ framework for use on Linux &amp; Apple, it would inject a massive growth spurt in both those platforms but a huge and lasting foothold on the MS-based app development.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the strongest minds in computer science have built out .NET , and continue to do so .
There are some practicality gaps , but today the majority of the corporate world is powered by .NET devs , for better or worse .
  However , this many years into the platform , it 's starting to show it 's age .
From .NET 1.0 applications , laden with crude pinvokes to Win32 API 's , GDI + silliness , messy ADO.NET integration , through 2.0 , 3.5 , 4.0 , the " Enterprise " helper classes , the " Foundation Extensions " , the integration of pseudo-SQL declarative syntax with LINQ , Entity Relation classes , Unity , security , contracts , plus all of the layers of ASP.NET tools .... do n't VS 's forget code analysis , test suites , code coverage , profiling , generated documentation... there are many more but you get the point... ...all this is shaping up to be a very MS-centric view of the .NET universe .
Which is a mistake , De Icaza seems to imply .
I wholeheartedly agree .
While the computing world abandons PCs for most tasks ( gaming , editing information aside ) and info consumption is done via smaller devices , on a variety of hardware &amp; OS 's , MS has bound .NET to their OS deployments - and there will be many other OS 's talking in that space .
    This is Microsoft 's biggest gamble with .NET : That as the OS lives or dies , so does this platform .
Really , it could be bigger than Windows .
If MS shipping a full ( even licensed ) 4.0 + framework for use on Linux &amp; Apple , it would inject a massive growth spurt in both those platforms but a huge and lasting foothold on the MS-based app development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Some of the strongest minds in computer science have built out .NET, and continue to do so.
There are some practicality gaps, but today the majority of the corporate world is powered by .NET devs, for better or worse.
  However, this many years into the platform, it's starting to show it's age.
From .NET 1.0 applications, laden with crude pinvokes to Win32 API's, GDI+ silliness, messy ADO.NET integration, through 2.0, 3.5, 4.0, the "Enterprise" helper classes, the "Foundation Extensions", the integration of pseudo-SQL declarative syntax with LINQ, Entity Relation classes, Unity, security, contracts, plus all of the layers of ASP.NET tools .... don't VS's forget code analysis, test suites, code coverage, profiling, generated documentation... there are many more but you get the point... ...all this is shaping up to be a very MS-centric view of the .NET universe.
Which is a mistake, De Icaza seems to imply.
I wholeheartedly agree.
While the computing world abandons PCs for most tasks (gaming, editing information aside) and info consumption is done via smaller devices, on a variety of hardware &amp; OS's, MS has bound .NET to their OS deployments - and there will be many other OS's talking in that space.
    This is Microsoft's biggest gamble with .NET:  That as the OS lives or dies, so does this platform.
Really, it could be bigger than Windows.
If MS shipping a full (even licensed) 4.0+ framework for use on Linux &amp; Apple, it would inject a massive growth spurt in both those platforms but a huge and lasting foothold on the MS-based app development.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613766</id>
	<title>Bilski</title>
	<author>AlexBirch</author>
	<datestamp>1269541980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Could all of Microsoft's software patents be lost with Bilski? Then there wouldn't be any possibility for infringement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Could all of Microsoft 's software patents be lost with Bilski ?
Then there would n't be any possibility for infringement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could all of Microsoft's software patents be lost with Bilski?
Then there wouldn't be any possibility for infringement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31652556</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1269789360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you actually tried that? half of Gnome depends on it indirectly. You won&rsquo;t be left with something that you could call a Gnome system by removing it. (But I think that&rsquo;s a good thing. To remove Gnome, that is. ^^)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you actually tried that ?
half of Gnome depends on it indirectly .
You won    t be left with something that you could call a Gnome system by removing it .
( But I think that    s a good thing .
To remove Gnome , that is .
^ ^ )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you actually tried that?
half of Gnome depends on it indirectly.
You won’t be left with something that you could call a Gnome system by removing it.
(But I think that’s a good thing.
To remove Gnome, that is.
^^)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614078</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269542760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wikipedia is PHP not java.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wikipedia is PHP not java .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wikipedia is PHP not java.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612774</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>gtall</author>
	<datestamp>1269538920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about "infection"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about " infection " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about "infection"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614246</id>
	<title>.NET shoots itself</title>
	<author>Ancient\_Hacker</author>
	<datestamp>1269543240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you read closely, Microsoft admits that the reason Vista came out late is that they *tried* rewriting large parts of Windows in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, and cringed at the results.</p><p>So Microsoft has about $4 billion and 2.5 years of lessons in why<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is not the shining city on a hill of programming.</p><p>So it's no surprise that they're quietly burying it, as they have so many names and hot technologies du-jour.   Take a quick mental trip through the half-dozen Microsoft database connection technologies of yore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you read closely , Microsoft admits that the reason Vista came out late is that they * tried * rewriting large parts of Windows in .NET , and cringed at the results.So Microsoft has about $ 4 billion and 2.5 years of lessons in why .NET is not the shining city on a hill of programming.So it 's no surprise that they 're quietly burying it , as they have so many names and hot technologies du-jour .
Take a quick mental trip through the half-dozen Microsoft database connection technologies of yore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you read closely, Microsoft admits that the reason Vista came out late is that they *tried* rewriting large parts of Windows in .NET, and cringed at the results.So Microsoft has about $4 billion and 2.5 years of lessons in why .NET is not the shining city on a hill of programming.So it's no surprise that they're quietly burying it, as they have so many names and hot technologies du-jour.
Take a quick mental trip through the half-dozen Microsoft database connection technologies of yore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611492</id>
	<title>Never go with Microsoft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't do deals with them, don't do products for them, don't use their products. Everyone fucking knows that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't do deals with them , do n't do products for them , do n't use their products .
Everyone fucking knows that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't do deals with them, don't do products for them, don't use their products.
Everyone fucking knows that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618968</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269517920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So... Miguel, now is the time to stand up, be a man, and take on MS !  Call their bluff, call them out to put their patents on the table so that the rest of us can see them, then blow them away; shut them up !</p><p>Where's the passion now, Miguel ?    Give Balmer a little chair throwing match so the rest of us can watch....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So... Miguel , now is the time to stand up , be a man , and take on MS !
Call their bluff , call them out to put their patents on the table so that the rest of us can see them , then blow them away ; shut them up ! Where 's the passion now , Miguel ?
Give Balmer a little chair throwing match so the rest of us can watch... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So... Miguel, now is the time to stand up, be a man, and take on MS !
Call their bluff, call them out to put their patents on the table so that the rest of us can see them, then blow them away; shut them up !Where's the passion now, Miguel ?
Give Balmer a little chair throwing match so the rest of us can watch....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612602</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>arielCo</author>
	<datestamp>1269538380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <b>ecosystem</b> </p><p>Main Entry: ecosystem<br>
Pronunciation: \-sis-tm\<br>
Function: <i>noun</i> <br>
Date: 1935</p><p>
: the complex of a community of organisms and its environment functioning as an ecological unit
</p></div><p>I understood "ecosystem" in this context is not about the computer system but about the different programs, libraries and their developers. So the term would be quite applicable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>ecosystem Main Entry : ecosystem Pronunciation : \ -sis-tm \ Function : noun Date : 1935 : the complex of a community of organisms and its environment functioning as an ecological unit I understood " ecosystem " in this context is not about the computer system but about the different programs , libraries and their developers .
So the term would be quite applicable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ecosystem Main Entry: ecosystem
Pronunciation: \-sis-tm\
Function: noun 
Date: 1935
: the complex of a community of organisms and its environment functioning as an ecological unit
I understood "ecosystem" in this context is not about the computer system but about the different programs, libraries and their developers.
So the term would be quite applicable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613522</id>
	<title>Got any more obvious stories?</title>
	<author>harlows\_monkeys</author>
	<datestamp>1269541260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, a major author of free software thinks Microsoft could have done better by being more open. Why is this interesting?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , a major author of free software thinks Microsoft could have done better by being more open .
Why is this interesting ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, a major author of free software thinks Microsoft could have done better by being more open.
Why is this interesting?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612996</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269539580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*could* have been built with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. Read more carefully.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* could * have been built with .NET .
Read more carefully .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*could* have been built with .NET.
Read more carefully.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612294</id>
	<title>How can that be?</title>
	<author>Stumbles</author>
	<datestamp>1269537360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Miguel has been trying to convince everyone in the FOSS world this was not a problem at all especially in regards to Mono. So how come the change of mind now?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Miguel has been trying to convince everyone in the FOSS world this was not a problem at all especially in regards to Mono .
So how come the change of mind now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Miguel has been trying to convince everyone in the FOSS world this was not a problem at all especially in regards to Mono.
So how come the change of mind now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613558</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1269541380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Huh?  When did Stallman ever say that Microsoft "shot<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET in the foot" (paraphrased)?  I'm sure he said<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET was evil.  That Mono was equally evil.  But Miguel's quote does not, to my knowledge, echo a single damn thing Stallman has ever said.</p><p>Maybe you should try actually reading and comprehending the text of the quote, first, before you try and fit it into your own ideological mold?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Huh ?
When did Stallman ever say that Microsoft " shot .NET in the foot " ( paraphrased ) ?
I 'm sure he said .NET was evil .
That Mono was equally evil .
But Miguel 's quote does not , to my knowledge , echo a single damn thing Stallman has ever said.Maybe you should try actually reading and comprehending the text of the quote , first , before you try and fit it into your own ideological mold ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Huh?
When did Stallman ever say that Microsoft "shot .NET in the foot" (paraphrased)?
I'm sure he said .NET was evil.
That Mono was equally evil.
But Miguel's quote does not, to my knowledge, echo a single damn thing Stallman has ever said.Maybe you should try actually reading and comprehending the text of the quote, first, before you try and fit it into your own ideological mold?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612210</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're looking for a free language like F#, just learn OCaml, which is another ML variant and pretty awesome.  You're not hooked up to the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET framework, which you could consider a good or a bad thing.  And you can do JIT or AOT compilation, which is pretty slick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're looking for a free language like F # , just learn OCaml , which is another ML variant and pretty awesome .
You 're not hooked up to the .NET framework , which you could consider a good or a bad thing .
And you can do JIT or AOT compilation , which is pretty slick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're looking for a free language like F#, just learn OCaml, which is another ML variant and pretty awesome.
You're not hooked up to the .NET framework, which you could consider a good or a bad thing.
And you can do JIT or AOT compilation, which is pretty slick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612636</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1269538500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there's Groovy.</p></div></blockquote><p>You can use Python or Ruby themselves with <a href="http://www.jython.org/" title="jython.org">Jython</a> [jython.org] or <a href="http://www.jruby.org/" title="jruby.org">JRuby</a> [jruby.org], respectively.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there 's Groovy.You can use Python or Ruby themselves with Jython [ jython.org ] or JRuby [ jruby.org ] , respectively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For a Python/Ruby style scripting language there's Groovy.You can use Python or Ruby themselves with Jython [jython.org] or JRuby [jruby.org], respectively.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31621114</id>
	<title>At Slashdot up is down and Java is healthy</title>
	<author>judeancodersfront</author>
	<datestamp>1269530580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My local B&amp;N sure has a lot of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net books for a platform that is limping along.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My local B&amp;N sure has a lot of .net books for a platform that is limping along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My local B&amp;N sure has a lot of .net books for a platform that is limping along.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31616448</id>
	<title>Re:so what, Miguel?</title>
	<author>garyebickford</author>
	<datestamp>1269550620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Snakes bite, buddy, that's why we don't play with them.</p></div><p>Yes, and some very big snakes 'embrace and extend' (wrap themselves around you and squeeze until your ribs break and your guts come out your eyes) before they bite.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Snakes bite , buddy , that 's why we do n't play with them.Yes , and some very big snakes 'embrace and extend ' ( wrap themselves around you and squeeze until your ribs break and your guts come out your eyes ) before they bite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Snakes bite, buddy, that's why we don't play with them.Yes, and some very big snakes 'embrace and extend' (wrap themselves around you and squeeze until your ribs break and your guts come out your eyes) before they bite.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31621180</id>
	<title>But what about the Web 2.0 Cloudiverse?</title>
	<author>judeancodersfront</author>
	<datestamp>1269531120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Will it also synergize market driven realities? Or will it cause partial irrelevance?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will it also synergize market driven realities ?
Or will it cause partial irrelevance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will it also synergize market driven realities?
Or will it cause partial irrelevance?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31620222</id>
	<title>The Open Specification Promise is shite</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269524460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Microsoft has also made some of its associated intellectual property, including XAML and its ASP.NET AJAX library, available under its Open Specification Promise or open-source licenses.<br>The OSP is an irrevocable promise by Microsoft to not assert its intellectual property rights for covered technologies.</i></p><p>One change I'd like to see, make it a promise by Microsoft not only not to assert its "IP" rights but also not to transfer their "IP" rights to patent trolls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft has also made some of its associated intellectual property , including XAML and its ASP.NET AJAX library , available under its Open Specification Promise or open-source licenses.The OSP is an irrevocable promise by Microsoft to not assert its intellectual property rights for covered technologies.One change I 'd like to see , make it a promise by Microsoft not only not to assert its " IP " rights but also not to transfer their " IP " rights to patent trolls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft has also made some of its associated intellectual property, including XAML and its ASP.NET AJAX library, available under its Open Specification Promise or open-source licenses.The OSP is an irrevocable promise by Microsoft to not assert its intellectual property rights for covered technologies.One change I'd like to see, make it a promise by Microsoft not only not to assert its "IP" rights but also not to transfer their "IP" rights to patent trolls.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612474</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then you are gay,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then you are gay,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then you are gay,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614618</id>
	<title>I provided some context</title>
	<author>miguel</author>
	<datestamp>1269544620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I provided some context to the SD times article on my blog today:</p><p><a href="http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Mar-25.html" title="tirania.org">http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Mar-25.html</a> [tirania.org]</p><p>Miguel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I provided some context to the SD times article on my blog today : http : //tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Mar-25.html [ tirania.org ] Miguel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I provided some context to the SD times article on my blog today:http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Mar-25.html [tirania.org]Miguel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614698</id>
	<title>Re:.NET is a Marketing Term</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1269544860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't realize? All he had to do was take his fingers out of his ears. He was willfully ignorant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't realize ?
All he had to do was take his fingers out of his ears .
He was willfully ignorant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't realize?
All he had to do was take his fingers out of his ears.
He was willfully ignorant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611818</id>
	<title>Not Shit Dumbass</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Im pissed that the entire free software community didn't make this point already.  YOU MEAN MICROSOFT IS LITIGIOUS WITH PATENTS??????? NO WAYS?!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sarcam</p><p>Seriously Miguel, I know you said Microsoft changed and all but it just proves you are either ignorant or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.....  Naw your just ignorant ive tried disagreeing with you.</p><p>Fucknob.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Im pissed that the entire free software community did n't make this point already .
YOU MEAN MICROSOFT IS LITIGIOUS WITH PATENTS ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
NO WAYS ? !
/sarcamSeriously Miguel , I know you said Microsoft changed and all but it just proves you are either ignorant or ..... Naw your just ignorant ive tried disagreeing with you.Fucknob .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Im pissed that the entire free software community didn't make this point already.
YOU MEAN MICROSOFT IS LITIGIOUS WITH PATENTS???????
NO WAYS?!
/sarcamSeriously Miguel, I know you said Microsoft changed and all but it just proves you are either ignorant or .....  Naw your just ignorant ive tried disagreeing with you.Fucknob.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31622648</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269546300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On the top of bully business practices MSFT killed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net by implementing it poorly:</p><p><b><br>IIS 7.0 loan.aspx(90 years): 171 milliseconds<br>G-WAN 1.0.6 loan.c(90 years): 1 millisecond<br></b></p><p>G-WAN (full) ANSI-C scripts are 171 TIMES faster than C#.</p><p>And, if you add to this the Web server response time, then on the 1-1,000 concurrency range G-WAN processes 800,000 times more loans(90 years) than IIS 7.0.</p><p>G-WAN's footprint is 100 KB. Compare this to the 1GB needed by IIS+ASP.Net.</p><p>No need to find other reasons about why<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net does not rule the Web.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On the top of bully business practices MSFT killed .Net by implementing it poorly : IIS 7.0 loan.aspx ( 90 years ) : 171 millisecondsG-WAN 1.0.6 loan.c ( 90 years ) : 1 millisecondG-WAN ( full ) ANSI-C scripts are 171 TIMES faster than C # .And , if you add to this the Web server response time , then on the 1-1,000 concurrency range G-WAN processes 800,000 times more loans ( 90 years ) than IIS 7.0.G-WAN 's footprint is 100 KB .
Compare this to the 1GB needed by IIS + ASP.Net.No need to find other reasons about why .Net does not rule the Web .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the top of bully business practices MSFT killed .Net by implementing it poorly:IIS 7.0 loan.aspx(90 years): 171 millisecondsG-WAN 1.0.6 loan.c(90 years): 1 millisecondG-WAN (full) ANSI-C scripts are 171 TIMES faster than C#.And, if you add to this the Web server response time, then on the 1-1,000 concurrency range G-WAN processes 800,000 times more loans(90 years) than IIS 7.0.G-WAN's footprint is 100 KB.
Compare this to the 1GB needed by IIS+ASP.Net.No need to find other reasons about why .Net does not rule the Web.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</id>
	<title>The harm is done</title>
	<author>Windwraith</author>
	<datestamp>1269536580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He already pushed Mono into a lot of parts of Gnome...harm is already done De Icaza, you had to realize before pushing it into one of the most widely used Linux desktop enviroments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He already pushed Mono into a lot of parts of Gnome...harm is already done De Icaza , you had to realize before pushing it into one of the most widely used Linux desktop enviroments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He already pushed Mono into a lot of parts of Gnome...harm is already done De Icaza, you had to realize before pushing it into one of the most widely used Linux desktop enviroments.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612332</id>
	<title>Re:What were you expecting Miguel?</title>
	<author>Enderandrew</author>
	<datestamp>1269537540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Novell paid for patent protection, so Novell shipping Mono is fairly safe. The problem is Ubuntu shipping Mono without patent protection, or Red Hat for that matter.</p><p>As for Microsoft playing nice, I doubt that is their motivation, but the EU is basically demanding that Microsoft work on interopability.</p><p>The Microsoft/Novell deal really does make sense for both parties. Novell doesn't have to worry about patent lawsuits. They get to go to existing Microsoft shops and tell them that Novell is the best Linux flavor to integrate into existing Microsoft environments.</p><p>Microsoft gets to hold FUD over Red Hat's head saying "if you run Red Hat, you may get sued!" For customers who might consider a Linux migration, Microsoft doesn't lose them as customers. For one, they're less likely to move over 100\% to a full Red Hat/Linux environment when Microsoft can tell them to shift only a few systems to Linux with Novell/SLES and interoperate with existing Microsoft products. Even better, they buy the Linux licenses through Microsoft and maintain the client/vendor relationship.</p><p>So long as it appeases the EU, and it remains mutually beneficial to both sides, Microsoft will play nice with Novell.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Novell paid for patent protection , so Novell shipping Mono is fairly safe .
The problem is Ubuntu shipping Mono without patent protection , or Red Hat for that matter.As for Microsoft playing nice , I doubt that is their motivation , but the EU is basically demanding that Microsoft work on interopability.The Microsoft/Novell deal really does make sense for both parties .
Novell does n't have to worry about patent lawsuits .
They get to go to existing Microsoft shops and tell them that Novell is the best Linux flavor to integrate into existing Microsoft environments.Microsoft gets to hold FUD over Red Hat 's head saying " if you run Red Hat , you may get sued !
" For customers who might consider a Linux migration , Microsoft does n't lose them as customers .
For one , they 're less likely to move over 100 \ % to a full Red Hat/Linux environment when Microsoft can tell them to shift only a few systems to Linux with Novell/SLES and interoperate with existing Microsoft products .
Even better , they buy the Linux licenses through Microsoft and maintain the client/vendor relationship.So long as it appeases the EU , and it remains mutually beneficial to both sides , Microsoft will play nice with Novell .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Novell paid for patent protection, so Novell shipping Mono is fairly safe.
The problem is Ubuntu shipping Mono without patent protection, or Red Hat for that matter.As for Microsoft playing nice, I doubt that is their motivation, but the EU is basically demanding that Microsoft work on interopability.The Microsoft/Novell deal really does make sense for both parties.
Novell doesn't have to worry about patent lawsuits.
They get to go to existing Microsoft shops and tell them that Novell is the best Linux flavor to integrate into existing Microsoft environments.Microsoft gets to hold FUD over Red Hat's head saying "if you run Red Hat, you may get sued!
" For customers who might consider a Linux migration, Microsoft doesn't lose them as customers.
For one, they're less likely to move over 100\% to a full Red Hat/Linux environment when Microsoft can tell them to shift only a few systems to Linux with Novell/SLES and interoperate with existing Microsoft products.
Even better, they buy the Linux licenses through Microsoft and maintain the client/vendor relationship.So long as it appeases the EU, and it remains mutually beneficial to both sides, Microsoft will play nice with Novell.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613338</id>
	<title>Re:That took guts to admit, Miguel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269540720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well the fact the paper disappeared except for a cache suggests he (or a superior) had a change of heart. I want to see his response to this thread.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well the fact the paper disappeared except for a cache suggests he ( or a superior ) had a change of heart .
I want to see his response to this thread .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well the fact the paper disappeared except for a cache suggests he (or a superior) had a change of heart.
I want to see his response to this thread.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614978</id>
	<title>Miguel's revelation</title>
	<author>Tranquility2G</author>
	<datestamp>1269545640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think Miguel just opened a Window, looked towards the Vista, and finally took notice of the tiny patent lawyers infesting his garden.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think Miguel just opened a Window , looked towards the Vista , and finally took notice of the tiny patent lawyers infesting his garden .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think Miguel just opened a Window, looked towards the Vista, and finally took notice of the tiny patent lawyers infesting his garden.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614046</id>
	<title>Re:I RTFM'ed aaaaandd....</title>
	<author>ShadowRangerRIT</author>
	<datestamp>1269542700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod parent informative. There is a big difference between "My support of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET was a mistake" and "Microsoft has limited a promising technology with vague patent threats".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent informative .
There is a big difference between " My support of .NET was a mistake " and " Microsoft has limited a promising technology with vague patent threats " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent informative.
There is a big difference between "My support of .NET was a mistake" and "Microsoft has limited a promising technology with vague patent threats".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612572</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>chdig</author>
	<datestamp>1269538320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, it was this quote that made me question whether de Icaza has any clue at all.<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET was released first in 2002.  Wikipedia was released in 2001, Google in the 90's.  As for Ruby on Rails -- don't you need Ruby first in order to build a framework on Ruby (incidentally, Microsoft got into IronRuby in 2007)?  Facebook, meanwhile, was a classic example of a commercial website done on the cheap, and at the time it was started, LAMP was about the only practical option.  Your average group of kids with an idea in college aren't going to go out and buy Window servers, software, and very pricey MSSQL licences.<br> <br>
Really, why would anyone bother listening to what this de Icaza guy has to say, when he spouts off nonsense like this?</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it was this quote that made me question whether de Icaza has any clue at all .
.NET was released first in 2002 .
Wikipedia was released in 2001 , Google in the 90 's .
As for Ruby on Rails -- do n't you need Ruby first in order to build a framework on Ruby ( incidentally , Microsoft got into IronRuby in 2007 ) ?
Facebook , meanwhile , was a classic example of a commercial website done on the cheap , and at the time it was started , LAMP was about the only practical option .
Your average group of kids with an idea in college are n't going to go out and buy Window servers , software , and very pricey MSSQL licences .
Really , why would anyone bother listening to what this de Icaza guy has to say , when he spouts off nonsense like this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it was this quote that made me question whether de Icaza has any clue at all.
.NET was released first in 2002.
Wikipedia was released in 2001, Google in the 90's.
As for Ruby on Rails -- don't you need Ruby first in order to build a framework on Ruby (incidentally, Microsoft got into IronRuby in 2007)?
Facebook, meanwhile, was a classic example of a commercial website done on the cheap, and at the time it was started, LAMP was about the only practical option.
Your average group of kids with an idea in college aren't going to go out and buy Window servers, software, and very pricey MSSQL licences.
Really, why would anyone bother listening to what this de Icaza guy has to say, when he spouts off nonsense like this?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613586</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269541440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic. Well, most voices on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. called him the same thing. He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start. You can't have half-measures.</p></div><p>Stallman is brilliant, but I think he was wrong in this instance, and de Icaza was originally right, but is now wrong.</p><p>.NET has taken over Windows development, and it's by no mean slowing down or stagnant.  Windows development dominates.  Microsoft hurting development of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net for non-windows platform isn't shooting itself in the foot, it's by design, in order to keep windows applications working in windows only, so people don't decide to switch.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When Stallman said the same thing , de Icaza called him a fanatic .
Well , most voices on / .
called him the same thing .
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start .
You ca n't have half-measures.Stallman is brilliant , but I think he was wrong in this instance , and de Icaza was originally right , but is now wrong..NET has taken over Windows development , and it 's by no mean slowing down or stagnant .
Windows development dominates .
Microsoft hurting development of .Net for non-windows platform is n't shooting itself in the foot , it 's by design , in order to keep windows applications working in windows only , so people do n't decide to switch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic.
Well, most voices on /.
called him the same thing.
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start.
You can't have half-measures.Stallman is brilliant, but I think he was wrong in this instance, and de Icaza was originally right, but is now wrong..NET has taken over Windows development, and it's by no mean slowing down or stagnant.
Windows development dominates.
Microsoft hurting development of .Net for non-windows platform isn't shooting itself in the foot, it's by design, in order to keep windows applications working in windows only, so people don't decide to switch.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612198</id>
	<title>Creating his own problem</title>
	<author>Enderandrew</author>
	<datestamp>1269537120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For the record, I'm not one of those guys up in arms that Novell is trying to create interoperability with Microsoft systems. I think this is a good move to help companies transition to Linux.</p><p>Novell's work on Mono, Moonlight, OOXML support in OpenOffice, Samba, OpenChange, etc. is a good thing.</p><p>That being said, there have been tons of worried detractors citing possible patent problems with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.</p><p>De Icaza told everyone not to worry about them, and started shoving Mono into every app he could, ignoring those concerns constantly. Isn't a bit late to start listening to those concerns after you shipped products with Mono in them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For the record , I 'm not one of those guys up in arms that Novell is trying to create interoperability with Microsoft systems .
I think this is a good move to help companies transition to Linux.Novell 's work on Mono , Moonlight , OOXML support in OpenOffice , Samba , OpenChange , etc .
is a good thing.That being said , there have been tons of worried detractors citing possible patent problems with .NET.De Icaza told everyone not to worry about them , and started shoving Mono into every app he could , ignoring those concerns constantly .
Is n't a bit late to start listening to those concerns after you shipped products with Mono in them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the record, I'm not one of those guys up in arms that Novell is trying to create interoperability with Microsoft systems.
I think this is a good move to help companies transition to Linux.Novell's work on Mono, Moonlight, OOXML support in OpenOffice, Samba, OpenChange, etc.
is a good thing.That being said, there have been tons of worried detractors citing possible patent problems with .NET.De Icaza told everyone not to worry about them, and started shoving Mono into every app he could, ignoring those concerns constantly.
Isn't a bit late to start listening to those concerns after you shipped products with Mono in them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</id>
	<title>De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to respect that company (NetWare 3.11, NDS, NetWare 5.0, GroupWise, ZenWorks, all top-notch tech, IMHO).</p><p>Now, a tad less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to respect that company ( NetWare 3.11 , NDS , NetWare 5.0 , GroupWise , ZenWorks , all top-notch tech , IMHO ) .Now , a tad less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to respect that company (NetWare 3.11, NDS, NetWare 5.0, GroupWise, ZenWorks, all top-notch tech, IMHO).Now, a tad less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613494</id>
	<title>Hey Miguel</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1269541140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you really are finally on the road to Damascus, be sure to snap some pics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you really are finally on the road to Damascus , be sure to snap some pics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you really are finally on the road to Damascus, be sure to snap some pics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611282</id>
	<title>fanboi disappointment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Poor Miguel.  Another Microsoft dream dies for him.  But that won't stop him from trying to ram all things Redmond down Linux user's throats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Poor Miguel .
Another Microsoft dream dies for him .
But that wo n't stop him from trying to ram all things Redmond down Linux user 's throats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Poor Miguel.
Another Microsoft dream dies for him.
But that won't stop him from trying to ram all things Redmond down Linux user's throats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614756</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>quantaman</author>
	<datestamp>1269544980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward. "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with."</p></div><p>gcj, ecj, GNU Classpath, Kaffe, Jikes, etc.</p><p>Now many of these merged, and much of the development has stopped altogether since Sun went GPL, but it's pretty misleading to claim "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with." Before Java was open-sourced there were many free JVMs in active development, they didn't have the entire API implemented and debugged, but I was able to run Eclipse on a free software stack before OpenJDK.</p><p>Now most of these projects are no longer really developed since the developers went onto OpenJDK, because it is GPL and the standard, but there was a pretty impressive development effort before then.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In practice , the Java community only uses two or three JVMs ( IBM 's , JRockit , and OpenJDK from Sun ) , while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects , said author and consultant Ted Neward .
" Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with .
" gcj , ecj , GNU Classpath , Kaffe , Jikes , etc.Now many of these merged , and much of the development has stopped altogether since Sun went GPL , but it 's pretty misleading to claim " Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with .
" Before Java was open-sourced there were many free JVMs in active development , they did n't have the entire API implemented and debugged , but I was able to run Eclipse on a free software stack before OpenJDK.Now most of these projects are no longer really developed since the developers went onto OpenJDK , because it is GPL and the standard , but there was a pretty impressive development effort before then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward.
"Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with.
"gcj, ecj, GNU Classpath, Kaffe, Jikes, etc.Now many of these merged, and much of the development has stopped altogether since Sun went GPL, but it's pretty misleading to claim "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with.
" Before Java was open-sourced there were many free JVMs in active development, they didn't have the entire API implemented and debugged, but I was able to run Eclipse on a free software stack before OpenJDK.Now most of these projects are no longer really developed since the developers went onto OpenJDK, because it is GPL and the standard, but there was a pretty impressive development effort before then.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615268</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1269546660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>But sure he's allowed to change his mind</i></p><p>He's a woman?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But sure he 's allowed to change his mindHe 's a woman ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But sure he's allowed to change his mindHe's a woman?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611732</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611132</id>
	<title>Pwahahahaha</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31620536</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>RPG Master</author>
	<datestamp>1269526440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was... amazing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was... amazing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was... amazing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this?  Most of us could have told him that with seconds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this ?
Most of us could have told him that with seconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this?
Most of us could have told him that with seconds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611922</id>
	<title>May this serve as a lesson...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269536340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>May this serve as a lesson for the next "de Icaza would-be": if you *ever* think of jumping boat "because this time M$ is going to play nice, really" and then you have the entire FOSS warning you that you're just being delusional, then instead of wasting your time and looking like an uber-fool years later, go work for a company that does *really* provide open software, under a real Open Source license.  You don't like Google's Chrome browser?  Fork them.  Go work on SRWare Iron (a fork of Chromium).</p><p>Why is Java present in every single Blu-Ray player on this planet (it's part of the Blu-Ray spec)?  Why is Java present in the wallet of entire countries' citizens (national ID SmartCard and/or national healthcare SmartCard)?  Why is Java huge in the cellphone market (in everything besides the iPhone)?  Why is Java powering a huge part of Google (GMail, GWT, Android, etc.), FedEx, Walmart, Twitter, eBay?</p><p>Because Java f*cking rocks and really *is* cross-platform.</p><p>Java is the biggest language success story of these last 20 years and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net is just a cheap imitation of the JVM.  Remember that one of the thing that makes Java so great is the inherent security of the JVM.  If you have two neurons, would you trust M$ to come up with something that could be secure?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net is a toy for Mom &amp; Dad's Microsoft-shop.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>May this serve as a lesson for the next " de Icaza would-be " : if you * ever * think of jumping boat " because this time M $ is going to play nice , really " and then you have the entire FOSS warning you that you 're just being delusional , then instead of wasting your time and looking like an uber-fool years later , go work for a company that does * really * provide open software , under a real Open Source license .
You do n't like Google 's Chrome browser ?
Fork them .
Go work on SRWare Iron ( a fork of Chromium ) .Why is Java present in every single Blu-Ray player on this planet ( it 's part of the Blu-Ray spec ) ?
Why is Java present in the wallet of entire countries ' citizens ( national ID SmartCard and/or national healthcare SmartCard ) ?
Why is Java huge in the cellphone market ( in everything besides the iPhone ) ?
Why is Java powering a huge part of Google ( GMail , GWT , Android , etc .
) , FedEx , Walmart , Twitter , eBay ? Because Java f * cking rocks and really * is * cross-platform.Java is the biggest language success story of these last 20 years and .Net is just a cheap imitation of the JVM .
Remember that one of the thing that makes Java so great is the inherent security of the JVM .
If you have two neurons , would you trust M $ to come up with something that could be secure ?
.Net is a toy for Mom &amp; Dad 's Microsoft-shop .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>May this serve as a lesson for the next "de Icaza would-be": if you *ever* think of jumping boat "because this time M$ is going to play nice, really" and then you have the entire FOSS warning you that you're just being delusional, then instead of wasting your time and looking like an uber-fool years later, go work for a company that does *really* provide open software, under a real Open Source license.
You don't like Google's Chrome browser?
Fork them.
Go work on SRWare Iron (a fork of Chromium).Why is Java present in every single Blu-Ray player on this planet (it's part of the Blu-Ray spec)?
Why is Java present in the wallet of entire countries' citizens (national ID SmartCard and/or national healthcare SmartCard)?
Why is Java huge in the cellphone market (in everything besides the iPhone)?
Why is Java powering a huge part of Google (GMail, GWT, Android, etc.
), FedEx, Walmart, Twitter, eBay?Because Java f*cking rocks and really *is* cross-platform.Java is the biggest language success story of these last 20 years and .Net is just a cheap imitation of the JVM.
Remember that one of the thing that makes Java so great is the inherent security of the JVM.
If you have two neurons, would you trust M$ to come up with something that could be secure?
.Net is a toy for Mom &amp; Dad's Microsoft-shop.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613074</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1269539820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?</i></p><p>After he apologizes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now ? After he apologizes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So is he allowed to be surprised or angry now?After he apologizes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</id>
	<title>C# and F#</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1269535740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe the biggest lamentation I have is regarding C#.  I keep on hearing how it's a wonderful improvement on C++, which is my bread-and-butter language.  But I'm just not willing to invest time in a language that requires paying a Microsoft tax one way or another.</p><p>Similarly for F# (I have a deep love for functional programming).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe the biggest lamentation I have is regarding C # .
I keep on hearing how it 's a wonderful improvement on C + + , which is my bread-and-butter language .
But I 'm just not willing to invest time in a language that requires paying a Microsoft tax one way or another.Similarly for F # ( I have a deep love for functional programming ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe the biggest lamentation I have is regarding C#.
I keep on hearing how it's a wonderful improvement on C++, which is my bread-and-butter language.
But I'm just not willing to invest time in a language that requires paying a Microsoft tax one way or another.Similarly for F# (I have a deep love for functional programming).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611334</id>
	<title>Here's the original cached version</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:O6bmbLpdB1gJ:www.sdtimes.com/DOES\_WINDOWS\_COST\_MICROSOFT\_OPPORTUNITIES\_/By\_David\_Worthington/About\_NET\_and\_WINDOWS/34203+http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34203&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk" title="74.125.153.132" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:O6bmbLpdB1gJ:www.sdtimes.com/DOES\_WINDOWS\_COST\_MICROSOFT\_OPPORTUNITIES\_/By\_David\_Worthington/About\_NET\_and\_WINDOWS/34203+http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34203&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk</a> [74.125.153.132]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //74.125.153.132/search ? q = cache : O6bmbLpdB1gJ : www.sdtimes.com/DOES \ _WINDOWS \ _COST \ _MICROSOFT \ _OPPORTUNITIES \ _/By \ _David \ _Worthington/About \ _NET \ _and \ _WINDOWS/34203 + http : //www.sdtimes.com/link/34203&amp;cd = 1&amp;hl = en&amp;ct = clnk [ 74.125.153.132 ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:O6bmbLpdB1gJ:www.sdtimes.com/DOES\_WINDOWS\_COST\_MICROSOFT\_OPPORTUNITIES\_/By\_David\_Worthington/About\_NET\_and\_WINDOWS/34203+http://www.sdtimes.com/link/34203&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk [74.125.153.132]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</id>
	<title>You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm afraid your commitment to excellence has not synergised with market driven realities of the mission critical holistic buzzwordverse. Buck up your ideas sonny and buy into the knowledge base on a going forward basis or you'll soon suffer negative organic growth in your wetware core vocal services vis-a-vis next generation corporate employment opportunity scenarios!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm afraid your commitment to excellence has not synergised with market driven realities of the mission critical holistic buzzwordverse .
Buck up your ideas sonny and buy into the knowledge base on a going forward basis or you 'll soon suffer negative organic growth in your wetware core vocal services vis-a-vis next generation corporate employment opportunity scenarios !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm afraid your commitment to excellence has not synergised with market driven realities of the mission critical holistic buzzwordverse.
Buck up your ideas sonny and buy into the knowledge base on a going forward basis or you'll soon suffer negative organic growth in your wetware core vocal services vis-a-vis next generation corporate employment opportunity scenarios!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612938</id>
	<title>Mono etc</title>
	<author>16K Ram Pack</author>
	<datestamp>1269539340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The idea that MS has shot<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net in the foot because of people who use Mono is just hyperbole. I'd guess that 99.999\% of people using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net do so on Windows.</p><p>Despite being a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net developer, I'd choose Python or Java if I had to do a project on Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea that MS has shot .net in the foot because of people who use Mono is just hyperbole .
I 'd guess that 99.999 \ % of people using .net do so on Windows.Despite being a .net developer , I 'd choose Python or Java if I had to do a project on Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea that MS has shot .net in the foot because of people who use Mono is just hyperbole.
I'd guess that 99.999\% of people using .net do so on Windows.Despite being a .net developer, I'd choose Python or Java if I had to do a project on Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611466</id>
	<title>What were you expecting Miguel?</title>
	<author>viraltus</author>
	<datestamp>1269534900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fair play from Micro$oft towards the free open source movement? Stop playing with monkeys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fair play from Micro $ oft towards the free open source movement ?
Stop playing with monkeys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fair play from Micro$oft towards the free open source movement?
Stop playing with monkeys.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612166</id>
	<title>so what, Miguel?</title>
	<author>Trailer Trash</author>
	<datestamp>1269537000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Snakes bite, buddy, that's why we don't play with them.</p><p>I don't know why you keep thinking that Microsoft wants some sort of "ecosystem".  They want control, but they're always willing to use a useful idiot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Snakes bite , buddy , that 's why we do n't play with them.I do n't know why you keep thinking that Microsoft wants some sort of " ecosystem " .
They want control , but they 're always willing to use a useful idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Snakes bite, buddy, that's why we don't play with them.I don't know why you keep thinking that Microsoft wants some sort of "ecosystem".
They want control, but they're always willing to use a useful idiot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269535740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic. Well, most voices on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. called him the same thing. He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start. You can't have half-measures.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When Stallman said the same thing , de Icaza called him a fanatic .
Well , most voices on / .
called him the same thing .
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start .
You ca n't have half-measures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic.
Well, most voices on /.
called him the same thing.
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start.
You can't have half-measures.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31623400</id>
	<title>Have you considered 'leaving' the .Net ecosystem?</title>
	<author>Qbertino</author>
	<datestamp>1269599460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that you've always been enthusiastic about the technical aspects and ideas of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net and have managed to build an impressive re-implementation of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net in FOSS, have you considered dropping the focus on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net compliance?</p><p>After all, MS governance of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net ecosystem is laking, as you say. And from what you say it sounds very much like I'd expect it to be: That following<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net everywhere it goes is more trouble than it's worth. On top of that, from what I can tell Mono has gained solid traction in the development world all by itself and on its own merit.</p><p>This all together with the solid marketing the mono project does all by itself I can't shake the notion that by now de-prioritizing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net compliance in Mono would actually give Mono adoption a boost.</p><p>What is your take on this?</p><p>(And, btw., thanks for the Mono toolkit. I've actually gotten curious about C# all because of it and the Monodevelop IDE.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that you 've always been enthusiastic about the technical aspects and ideas of .Net and have managed to build an impressive re-implementation of .Net in FOSS , have you considered dropping the focus on .Net compliance ? After all , MS governance of the .Net ecosystem is laking , as you say .
And from what you say it sounds very much like I 'd expect it to be : That following .Net everywhere it goes is more trouble than it 's worth .
On top of that , from what I can tell Mono has gained solid traction in the development world all by itself and on its own merit.This all together with the solid marketing the mono project does all by itself I ca n't shake the notion that by now de-prioritizing .Net compliance in Mono would actually give Mono adoption a boost.What is your take on this ?
( And , btw. , thanks for the Mono toolkit .
I 've actually gotten curious about C # all because of it and the Monodevelop IDE .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that you've always been enthusiastic about the technical aspects and ideas of .Net and have managed to build an impressive re-implementation of .Net in FOSS, have you considered dropping the focus on .Net compliance?After all, MS governance of the .Net ecosystem is laking, as you say.
And from what you say it sounds very much like I'd expect it to be: That following .Net everywhere it goes is more trouble than it's worth.
On top of that, from what I can tell Mono has gained solid traction in the development world all by itself and on its own merit.This all together with the solid marketing the mono project does all by itself I can't shake the notion that by now de-prioritizing .Net compliance in Mono would actually give Mono adoption a boost.What is your take on this?
(And, btw., thanks for the Mono toolkit.
I've actually gotten curious about C# all because of it and the Monodevelop IDE.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618720</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269516600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And to make sure it never comes creeping back in: <a href="http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/" title="thechases.com" rel="nofollow">mononono</a> [thechases.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And to make sure it never comes creeping back in : mononono [ thechases.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And to make sure it never comes creeping back in: mononono [thechases.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31622430</id>
	<title>Hard to say if I made the right decision</title>
	<author>Douglas Goodall</author>
	<datestamp>1269544020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a software engineer that primarily writes transportable code and hardware drivers. I disliked learning software only frameworks because they are artificial and change too often. chips are more stable. From the outset<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. The idea that the software engineers could not be trusted to write unmanaged code was insulting and arrogant on Microsoft's and Intel's part. The licensing restrictions on the example cli runtime told me early that we would have trouble staying transportable with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. ECMA was a joke from the start and I had trouble understanding why people couldn't see it. The idea that Visual Basic was the best langauge for writing Windows programs said a lot about WIndows as a platform. I wrote the Mono people about my concerns and they did not respond. I wrote the DotGnu people about my concerns, and they didn't respond either. In the end, I just didn't bother to learn<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET because the versions came too fast and I couldn't afford to buy the reference documentation every time the changed the framework. In my mind, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot first, then released<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. They just kept their foot wrapped in ductape all this time and didn't mention they were bleeding. It was dead from the start, but the body took a while to stop moving. This is my opinion, and I stand by it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a software engineer that primarily writes transportable code and hardware drivers .
I disliked learning software only frameworks because they are artificial and change too often .
chips are more stable .
From the outset .NET made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end .
The idea that the software engineers could not be trusted to write unmanaged code was insulting and arrogant on Microsoft 's and Intel 's part .
The licensing restrictions on the example cli runtime told me early that we would have trouble staying transportable with .NET .
ECMA was a joke from the start and I had trouble understanding why people could n't see it .
The idea that Visual Basic was the best langauge for writing Windows programs said a lot about WIndows as a platform .
I wrote the Mono people about my concerns and they did not respond .
I wrote the DotGnu people about my concerns , and they did n't respond either .
In the end , I just did n't bother to learn .NET because the versions came too fast and I could n't afford to buy the reference documentation every time the changed the framework .
In my mind , Microsoft shot themselves in the foot first , then released .NET .
They just kept their foot wrapped in ductape all this time and did n't mention they were bleeding .
It was dead from the start , but the body took a while to stop moving .
This is my opinion , and I stand by it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a software engineer that primarily writes transportable code and hardware drivers.
I disliked learning software only frameworks because they are artificial and change too often.
chips are more stable.
From the outset .NET made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.
The idea that the software engineers could not be trusted to write unmanaged code was insulting and arrogant on Microsoft's and Intel's part.
The licensing restrictions on the example cli runtime told me early that we would have trouble staying transportable with .NET.
ECMA was a joke from the start and I had trouble understanding why people couldn't see it.
The idea that Visual Basic was the best langauge for writing Windows programs said a lot about WIndows as a platform.
I wrote the Mono people about my concerns and they did not respond.
I wrote the DotGnu people about my concerns, and they didn't respond either.
In the end, I just didn't bother to learn .NET because the versions came too fast and I couldn't afford to buy the reference documentation every time the changed the framework.
In my mind, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot first, then released .NET.
They just kept their foot wrapped in ductape all this time and didn't mention they were bleeding.
It was dead from the start, but the body took a while to stop moving.
This is my opinion, and I stand by it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31625354</id>
	<title>Re:What were you expecting Miguel?</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1269614820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft's path through history is littered with the bodies of businesses that partnered with them, each one with a dagger in it's back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft 's path through history is littered with the bodies of businesses that partnered with them , each one with a dagger in it 's back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft's path through history is littered with the bodies of businesses that partnered with them, each one with a dagger in it's back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613122</id>
	<title>I RTFM'ed aaaaandd....</title>
	<author>CODiNE</author>
	<datestamp>1269540000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He doesn't go as far as say he's given up or that he's been wrong all along.  All he said is that they shot themselves in the foot and LIMITED the spread of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net by threatening people with patent litigation.</p><p>It really looks like he's saying "It could have been so much more" rather than "I have today truly awoken!"</p><p>So until we have a more solid quote from him that supports the idea of retracting on previous statements... the bubbly should be put back on the rack.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He does n't go as far as say he 's given up or that he 's been wrong all along .
All he said is that they shot themselves in the foot and LIMITED the spread of .Net by threatening people with patent litigation.It really looks like he 's saying " It could have been so much more " rather than " I have today truly awoken !
" So until we have a more solid quote from him that supports the idea of retracting on previous statements... the bubbly should be put back on the rack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He doesn't go as far as say he's given up or that he's been wrong all along.
All he said is that they shot themselves in the foot and LIMITED the spread of .Net by threatening people with patent litigation.It really looks like he's saying "It could have been so much more" rather than "I have today truly awoken!
"So until we have a more solid quote from him that supports the idea of retracting on previous statements... the bubbly should be put back on the rack.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612392</id>
	<title>Re:The harm is done</title>
	<author>Svartalf</author>
	<datestamp>1269537660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it can be undone.  Either with Vala, or re-writes to C++ or Java.  Seriously.  It's not wholly too late to undo this mess he's made of things for us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it can be undone .
Either with Vala , or re-writes to C + + or Java .
Seriously. It 's not wholly too late to undo this mess he 's made of things for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it can be undone.
Either with Vala, or re-writes to C++ or Java.
Seriously.  It's not wholly too late to undo this mess he's made of things for us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612254</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last time I checked, Google has been running on Linux from day 1.</p><p>Facebook is developed in PHP, hence their new HipHop project.</p><p>Wikipedia has always run on Linux, like Google, before Mono was really up and running.</p><p>I find it hard to believe any of these were developed using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I checked , Google has been running on Linux from day 1.Facebook is developed in PHP , hence their new HipHop project.Wikipedia has always run on Linux , like Google , before Mono was really up and running.I find it hard to believe any of these were developed using .NET .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I checked, Google has been running on Linux from day 1.Facebook is developed in PHP, hence their new HipHop project.Wikipedia has always run on Linux, like Google, before Mono was really up and running.I find it hard to believe any of these were developed using .NET.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612416</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269537720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" freely available, but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.</p></div><p>Rotor isn't open source, though. It's "shared source", meaning that you can look at the code, but you can't hack on it and redistribute the result. It's more of a reference implementation for study.</p><p>It's not full-featured, either. It doesn't have the complete set of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET class libraries, for example; only the basic stuff (what was in Ecma CLI spec, I believe).</p><p>Oh, and it's Windows-only (the first release, which corresponded to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 1.1 IIRC, was for Windows and FreeBSD).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed " Rotor " freely available , but it has had little or no uptake , Neward noted.Rotor is n't open source , though .
It 's " shared source " , meaning that you can look at the code , but you ca n't hack on it and redistribute the result .
It 's more of a reference implementation for study.It 's not full-featured , either .
It does n't have the complete set of .NET class libraries , for example ; only the basic stuff ( what was in Ecma CLI spec , I believe ) .Oh , and it 's Windows-only ( the first release , which corresponded to .NET 1.1 IIRC , was for Windows and FreeBSD ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" freely available, but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.Rotor isn't open source, though.
It's "shared source", meaning that you can look at the code, but you can't hack on it and redistribute the result.
It's more of a reference implementation for study.It's not full-featured, either.
It doesn't have the complete set of .NET class libraries, for example; only the basic stuff (what was in Ecma CLI spec, I believe).Oh, and it's Windows-only (the first release, which corresponded to .NET 1.1 IIRC, was for Windows and FreeBSD).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613734</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1269541860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Wikipedia? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Really, no.</i></p><p>Why not?</p><p>You have to actually produce reasons here, not just type AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. After you've come up with a couple of compelling reasons, then you can move on to the all-caps laughing.</p><p><i>(Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software. It ran at half the speed of the Java version.)</i></p><p>Ok... is this relevant to anything at all? "Mono sucks." Yes, we all already knew that. But Mono isn't the only<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net runtime... which does nothing to address De Icaza's point above.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wikipedia ?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no .
Really , no.Why not ? You have to actually produce reasons here , not just type AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .
After you 've come up with a couple of compelling reasons , then you can move on to the all-caps laughing .
( Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C # on Mono for a while , when Java was n't yet sufficiently free software .
It ran at half the speed of the Java version. ) Ok.. .
is this relevant to anything at all ?
" Mono sucks .
" Yes , we all already knew that .
But Mono is n't the only .net runtime... which does nothing to address De Icaza 's point above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wikipedia?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
Really, no.Why not?You have to actually produce reasons here, not just type AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
After you've come up with a couple of compelling reasons, then you can move on to the all-caps laughing.
(Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software.
It ran at half the speed of the Java version.)Ok...
is this relevant to anything at all?
"Mono sucks.
" Yes, we all already knew that.
But Mono isn't the only .net runtime... which does nothing to address De Icaza's point above.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613146</id>
	<title>Re:Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>melikamp</author>
	<datestamp>1269540060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Net.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Net .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Net.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614908</id>
	<title>How can anyone that bright</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1269545460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>still be so clueless?</p><blockquote><div><p>The Novell vice-president was quoted as saying: "Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them."</p></div> </blockquote><p>OK, the Java world is blossoming.  So that means Sun is doing great, does it?</p><p>Microsoft's relationship toward the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET world is not driven by altruism.  It's driven by the need to lock the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET users into as much of Microsoft's product stack as possible.</p><p>Microsoft wanted to do to Java what it did to Netscape.  Microsoft created a whole "Internet Explorer ecosystem" and as soon as it had most of the world locked in it stopped investing and bled that ecosystem dry. It only started moving again when users began to jump ship.</p><p>Microsoft's product strategy has always amounted to this: make it is to buy in, and hard to get out.  That somebody working for Novell of all places doesn't understand that is a bit shocking.  Microsoft took away Novell's bread and butter in the late 80s and early 90s essentially by making the case that you could have clerks run your servers rather than highly trained sysadmins.</p><p>This is not a "Microsoft is evil" rant.  Microsoft does what most businesses try to do: maximize profits by evading competition.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>still be so clueless ? The Novell vice-president was quoted as saying : " Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations , the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [ Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer ] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them .
" OK , the Java world is blossoming .
So that means Sun is doing great , does it ? Microsoft 's relationship toward the .NET world is not driven by altruism .
It 's driven by the need to lock the .NET users into as much of Microsoft 's product stack as possible.Microsoft wanted to do to Java what it did to Netscape .
Microsoft created a whole " Internet Explorer ecosystem " and as soon as it had most of the world locked in it stopped investing and bled that ecosystem dry .
It only started moving again when users began to jump ship.Microsoft 's product strategy has always amounted to this : make it is to buy in , and hard to get out .
That somebody working for Novell of all places does n't understand that is a bit shocking .
Microsoft took away Novell 's bread and butter in the late 80s and early 90s essentially by making the case that you could have clerks run your servers rather than highly trained sysadmins.This is not a " Microsoft is evil " rant .
Microsoft does what most businesses try to do : maximize profits by evading competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>still be so clueless?The Novell vice-president was quoted as saying: "Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them.
" OK, the Java world is blossoming.
So that means Sun is doing great, does it?Microsoft's relationship toward the .NET world is not driven by altruism.
It's driven by the need to lock the .NET users into as much of Microsoft's product stack as possible.Microsoft wanted to do to Java what it did to Netscape.
Microsoft created a whole "Internet Explorer ecosystem" and as soon as it had most of the world locked in it stopped investing and bled that ecosystem dry.
It only started moving again when users began to jump ship.Microsoft's product strategy has always amounted to this: make it is to buy in, and hard to get out.
That somebody working for Novell of all places doesn't understand that is a bit shocking.
Microsoft took away Novell's bread and butter in the late 80s and early 90s essentially by making the case that you could have clerks run your servers rather than highly trained sysadmins.This is not a "Microsoft is evil" rant.
Microsoft does what most businesses try to do: maximize profits by evading competition.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612756</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269538860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Neward is wrong Rotor was "freely available" but under the license "look, but do not touch", and explicitly prohibits commercial use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Neward is wrong Rotor was " freely available " but under the license " look , but do not touch " , and explicitly prohibits commercial use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neward is wrong Rotor was "freely available" but under the license "look, but do not touch", and explicitly prohibits commercial use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612278</id>
	<title>Re:The harm is done</title>
	<author>roqetman</author>
	<datestamp>1269537360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's only used it a couple of small applications that can be replaced if necessary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's only used it a couple of small applications that can be replaced if necessary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's only used it a couple of small applications that can be replaced if necessary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615076</id>
	<title>How did he not see this coming?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1269546000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many many people pointed out that Microsoft was going to see Mono as nothing more than an opportunity to legitimize<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, and do everything they could to lock people in to the "real"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET platform... legally, socially, and technically.</p><p>And this is what has, in fact, happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many many people pointed out that Microsoft was going to see Mono as nothing more than an opportunity to legitimize .NET , and do everything they could to lock people in to the " real " .NET platform... legally , socially , and technically.And this is what has , in fact , happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many many people pointed out that Microsoft was going to see Mono as nothing more than an opportunity to legitimize .NET, and do everything they could to lock people in to the "real" .NET platform... legally, socially, and technically.And this is what has, in fact, happened.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31621278</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269532020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out D.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out D .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out D.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613608</id>
	<title>What could have been...</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1269541500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, de Icaza claimed.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is true in the trivial sense that anything any computer can do can be done on any platform that allows control of the same I/O facilities and supports at least one Turing-complete language.</p><p>OTOH, I don't see that any substantial argument has been made that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET would have been an attractive platform for any of these things instead of their actual platforms if Microsoft had done things differently.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Facebook , Google , Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET , de Icaza claimed.This is true in the trivial sense that anything any computer can do can be done on any platform that allows control of the same I/O facilities and supports at least one Turing-complete language.OTOH , I do n't see that any substantial argument has been made that .NET would have been an attractive platform for any of these things instead of their actual platforms if Microsoft had done things differently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET, de Icaza claimed.This is true in the trivial sense that anything any computer can do can be done on any platform that allows control of the same I/O facilities and supports at least one Turing-complete language.OTOH, I don't see that any substantial argument has been made that .NET would have been an attractive platform for any of these things instead of their actual platforms if Microsoft had done things differently.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31619580</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>Xaduurv</author>
	<datestamp>1269520980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pointy haired boss, is that you? (dilbert)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pointy haired boss , is that you ?
( dilbert )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pointy haired boss, is that you?
(dilbert)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613994</id>
	<title>You shot Mono in the foot, Migul.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1269542520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How typical, fall back on the stereotypical Linux/GPer reason your product failed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Microsoft is hurting us.</p><p>What a fucking cop out, if thats your excuse just shut the hell up and quit.</p><p>My company has an agreement with MS, I am in no way concerned for MS patent violations, I'm licensed, its not a concern.</p><p>I STILL WON'T USE MONO BECAUSE ITS CRAP.  I'd much rather not have to deal with Windows servers and use Mono<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but Windows and the MS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET implementation actually work.  Mono doesn't even come close for anything larger than Hello World.  And to be honest, I bet Hello World crashes half the time.</p><p>The GC is non-compacting so long running apps still require you to do memory management<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... defeating the primary purpose of using the CLR for most people.  Might as well use native C, it doesn't take 8 weeks to get the runtime to compile if you take that route at least.</p><p>Mono considers a framework or api supported when they've got stubs in for all the public methods<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... even if those stubs do nothing more than throw a NotImplemented exception<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I realize you have obviously considerably lower standards for your code and projects Migul, but fucking NotImplemented exceptions means its not fucking finished.</p><p>Its got bug reports that have sat around for years to get minor patches such as the tiny little patch to get the SerialPort class to work on OS X<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the entire patch file is less than 20 lines or so, probably 3-5 actual lines changed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... just change poll to mono\_poll to deal with the fact that OSX doesn't have a poll the mono likes.  No one bothers to commit it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... so SerialPort is still broken in OS X<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>You know why people aren't using your craptastic pile of code<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... IT WORKS PROPERLY LESS OFTEN THAN IT BREAKS.</p><p>Stop pointing the finger and use it to fix your crappy code base, the bullshit excuses your throwing out aren't doing you any good.</p><p>Make your framework and runtime actually work, stop trying to beat VisualStudio, its not going to happen, they have more resources, just as high of quality talent, and a WHOLE lot more motivation than you do.  You won't win.  Put your efforts into something actually useful to the project rather than producing another half ass unfinished buggy application.  The damn thing doesn't even handle focus correctly if you click in the text window from another application while in debug mode for fucks sake.</p><p>When you use Mono, if you were going to report everybug you noticed, you'd spend a week reporting bugs before you even got to the point of running something.  THATS why you aren't going anywhere.</p><p>No one anywhere who is considering Mono is worried about the patents, and thats not whats stopping them from using it.  You might want to get some perspective<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... your daughter is an ugly unreliable bitch and everyone else other than you knows it.  You won't marrier her off until you make her at least as desirable as the other women.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How typical , fall back on the stereotypical Linux/GPer reason your product failed ... Microsoft is hurting us.What a fucking cop out , if thats your excuse just shut the hell up and quit.My company has an agreement with MS , I am in no way concerned for MS patent violations , I 'm licensed , its not a concern.I STILL WO N'T USE MONO BECAUSE ITS CRAP .
I 'd much rather not have to deal with Windows servers and use Mono ... but Windows and the MS .NET implementation actually work .
Mono does n't even come close for anything larger than Hello World .
And to be honest , I bet Hello World crashes half the time.The GC is non-compacting so long running apps still require you to do memory management ... defeating the primary purpose of using the CLR for most people .
Might as well use native C , it does n't take 8 weeks to get the runtime to compile if you take that route at least.Mono considers a framework or api supported when they 've got stubs in for all the public methods ... even if those stubs do nothing more than throw a NotImplemented exception ... I realize you have obviously considerably lower standards for your code and projects Migul , but fucking NotImplemented exceptions means its not fucking finished.Its got bug reports that have sat around for years to get minor patches such as the tiny little patch to get the SerialPort class to work on OS X ... the entire patch file is less than 20 lines or so , probably 3-5 actual lines changed ... just change poll to mono \ _poll to deal with the fact that OSX does n't have a poll the mono likes .
No one bothers to commit it ... so SerialPort is still broken in OS X ...You know why people are n't using your craptastic pile of code .... IT WORKS PROPERLY LESS OFTEN THAN IT BREAKS.Stop pointing the finger and use it to fix your crappy code base , the bullshit excuses your throwing out are n't doing you any good.Make your framework and runtime actually work , stop trying to beat VisualStudio , its not going to happen , they have more resources , just as high of quality talent , and a WHOLE lot more motivation than you do .
You wo n't win .
Put your efforts into something actually useful to the project rather than producing another half ass unfinished buggy application .
The damn thing does n't even handle focus correctly if you click in the text window from another application while in debug mode for fucks sake.When you use Mono , if you were going to report everybug you noticed , you 'd spend a week reporting bugs before you even got to the point of running something .
THATS why you are n't going anywhere.No one anywhere who is considering Mono is worried about the patents , and thats not whats stopping them from using it .
You might want to get some perspective ... your daughter is an ugly unreliable bitch and everyone else other than you knows it .
You wo n't marrier her off until you make her at least as desirable as the other women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How typical, fall back on the stereotypical Linux/GPer reason your product failed ... Microsoft is hurting us.What a fucking cop out, if thats your excuse just shut the hell up and quit.My company has an agreement with MS, I am in no way concerned for MS patent violations, I'm licensed, its not a concern.I STILL WON'T USE MONO BECAUSE ITS CRAP.
I'd much rather not have to deal with Windows servers and use Mono ... but Windows and the MS .NET implementation actually work.
Mono doesn't even come close for anything larger than Hello World.
And to be honest, I bet Hello World crashes half the time.The GC is non-compacting so long running apps still require you to do memory management ... defeating the primary purpose of using the CLR for most people.
Might as well use native C, it doesn't take 8 weeks to get the runtime to compile if you take that route at least.Mono considers a framework or api supported when they've got stubs in for all the public methods ... even if those stubs do nothing more than throw a NotImplemented exception ... I realize you have obviously considerably lower standards for your code and projects Migul, but fucking NotImplemented exceptions means its not fucking finished.Its got bug reports that have sat around for years to get minor patches such as the tiny little patch to get the SerialPort class to work on OS X ... the entire patch file is less than 20 lines or so, probably 3-5 actual lines changed ... just change poll to mono\_poll to deal with the fact that OSX doesn't have a poll the mono likes.
No one bothers to commit it ... so SerialPort is still broken in OS X ...You know why people aren't using your craptastic pile of code .... IT WORKS PROPERLY LESS OFTEN THAN IT BREAKS.Stop pointing the finger and use it to fix your crappy code base, the bullshit excuses your throwing out aren't doing you any good.Make your framework and runtime actually work, stop trying to beat VisualStudio, its not going to happen, they have more resources, just as high of quality talent, and a WHOLE lot more motivation than you do.
You won't win.
Put your efforts into something actually useful to the project rather than producing another half ass unfinished buggy application.
The damn thing doesn't even handle focus correctly if you click in the text window from another application while in debug mode for fucks sake.When you use Mono, if you were going to report everybug you noticed, you'd spend a week reporting bugs before you even got to the point of running something.
THATS why you aren't going anywhere.No one anywhere who is considering Mono is worried about the patents, and thats not whats stopping them from using it.
You might want to get some perspective ... your daughter is an ugly unreliable bitch and everyone else other than you knows it.
You won't marrier her off until you make her at least as desirable as the other women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615798</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>croftj</author>
	<datestamp>1269548460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sir, by your style of writing I see that you will make (if you are not already) a superior Enterprise Java programmer! Good luck in your endeavors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sir , by your style of writing I see that you will make ( if you are not already ) a superior Enterprise Java programmer !
Good luck in your endeavors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sir, by your style of writing I see that you will make (if you are not already) a superior Enterprise Java programmer!
Good luck in your endeavors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612180</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1269537060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Novell bought Ximian back in 2003.  Ximian people became Novell people, and the two founders got senior posts at Novell.  Quite a few of Novell's Linux offerings are based on Ximian products.  Their Go-OO.org thing is based on Ximian's OpenOffice, for example.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Novell bought Ximian back in 2003 .
Ximian people became Novell people , and the two founders got senior posts at Novell .
Quite a few of Novell 's Linux offerings are based on Ximian products .
Their Go-OO.org thing is based on Ximian 's OpenOffice , for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Novell bought Ximian back in 2003.
Ximian people became Novell people, and the two founders got senior posts at Novell.
Quite a few of Novell's Linux offerings are based on Ximian products.
Their Go-OO.org thing is based on Ximian's OpenOffice, for example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612960</id>
	<title>.NET now on new Windows Mobile Platform</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269539400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just in,  Microsoft's new Mobile Platform is set to dominate the Market with its new "modified, lawyer protected"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET subroutines embedded in their "NEW" programming platform to be announced in the upcoming days.  (may, or may not be currently compatible with any or all previously created software and may charge you a fee on the number breaths taken while holding the device)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just in , Microsoft 's new Mobile Platform is set to dominate the Market with its new " modified , lawyer protected " .NET subroutines embedded in their " NEW " programming platform to be announced in the upcoming days .
( may , or may not be currently compatible with any or all previously created software and may charge you a fee on the number breaths taken while holding the device )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just in,  Microsoft's new Mobile Platform is set to dominate the Market with its new "modified, lawyer protected" .NET subroutines embedded in their "NEW" programming platform to be announced in the upcoming days.
(may, or may not be currently compatible with any or all previously created software and may charge you a fee on the number breaths taken while holding the device)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611500</id>
	<title>Re:Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1269535020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does that mean "gimp" is going to be ported to ".NET"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does that mean " gimp " is going to be ported to " .NET " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does that mean "gimp" is going to be ported to ".NET"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611292</id>
	<title>He was a retard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>for assuming (and advocating to others) that Microsoft won't threaten Linux.</htmltext>
<tokenext>for assuming ( and advocating to others ) that Microsoft wo n't threaten Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for assuming (and advocating to others) that Microsoft won't threaten Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612296</id>
	<title>Re:The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>rtyhurst</author>
	<datestamp>1269537360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I *speet* upon de Icaza and his vile prostitution to Microsoft!</p><p>*hork*</p><p>*ptoooooooie!*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I * speet * upon de Icaza and his vile prostitution to Microsoft ! * hork * * ptoooooooie !
*</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I *speet* upon de Icaza and his vile prostitution to Microsoft!*hork**ptoooooooie!
*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613592</id>
	<title>Re:The harm is done</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1269541440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What harm has been done?  Did you not read the article?  He (if these are real quotes) basically said that Microsoft could have a lot more people using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET if they took greater steps to address the patent fears.  He never said anything about harm done to anything other than Microsoft own efforts.  Projecting your own beliefs much?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What harm has been done ?
Did you not read the article ?
He ( if these are real quotes ) basically said that Microsoft could have a lot more people using .NET if they took greater steps to address the patent fears .
He never said anything about harm done to anything other than Microsoft own efforts .
Projecting your own beliefs much ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What harm has been done?
Did you not read the article?
He (if these are real quotes) basically said that Microsoft could have a lot more people using .NET if they took greater steps to address the patent fears.
He never said anything about harm done to anything other than Microsoft own efforts.
Projecting your own beliefs much?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611524</id>
	<title>Well --</title>
	<author>dwiget001</author>
	<datestamp>1269535140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>-- as if nothing like this was ever anticipated or expected.</p><p>Whoosh!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>-- as if nothing like this was ever anticipated or expected.Whoosh !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-- as if nothing like this was ever anticipated or expected.Whoosh!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611444</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Be careful or you'll summon the fail whale!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Be careful or you 'll summon the fail whale !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Be careful or you'll summon the fail whale!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611258</id>
	<title>So Miguel finally figured it out?</title>
	<author>OzPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1269534360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is hope for him yet!</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is hope for him yet !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is hope for him yet!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612440</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see why Wikipedia couldn't have been built with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.  It's mostly database-driven; you could write the front end in pretty much anything.  It's not an especially complex bit of software, the value is in the content.  People have written wikis in all sorts of languages and even something as slow as Ruby scales well enough in most cases to keep the bottleneck in the I/O.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see why Wikipedia could n't have been built with .NET .
It 's mostly database-driven ; you could write the front end in pretty much anything .
It 's not an especially complex bit of software , the value is in the content .
People have written wikis in all sorts of languages and even something as slow as Ruby scales well enough in most cases to keep the bottleneck in the I/O .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see why Wikipedia couldn't have been built with .NET.
It's mostly database-driven; you could write the front end in pretty much anything.
It's not an especially complex bit of software, the value is in the content.
People have written wikis in all sorts of languages and even something as slow as Ruby scales well enough in most cases to keep the bottleneck in the I/O.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611244</id>
	<title>Not very persuasive...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft has shot the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET ecosystem in the foot</p></div><p>A head shot would have been clearer. We all know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET limps already.<br>
Or is this just the usual Microsoft wobbling instead of making an actual decision?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the footA head shot would have been clearer .
We all know .NET limps already .
Or is this just the usual Microsoft wobbling instead of making an actual decision ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the footA head shot would have been clearer.
We all know .NET limps already.
Or is this just the usual Microsoft wobbling instead of making an actual decision?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31621196</id>
	<title>Nuking Gnome from orbit is the only answer</title>
	<author>judeancodersfront</author>
	<datestamp>1269531300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the only way to know for sure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the only way to know for sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the only way to know for sure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618444</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>WeatherGod</author>
	<datestamp>1269514980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This got modded insightful?

The reason why wikipedia could never be built using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is not technical.  Of course one could have used<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET to build a wiki-like system.  The reason why wikipedia would never have used<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is because of their stance on using 100\% FOSS from the bottom up.  Wikipedia would never touch<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET with a 10 foot pole due to all of the legal questions around it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This got modded insightful ?
The reason why wikipedia could never be built using .NET is not technical .
Of course one could have used .NET to build a wiki-like system .
The reason why wikipedia would never have used .NET is because of their stance on using 100 \ % FOSS from the bottom up .
Wikipedia would never touch .NET with a 10 foot pole due to all of the legal questions around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This got modded insightful?
The reason why wikipedia could never be built using .NET is not technical.
Of course one could have used .NET to build a wiki-like system.
The reason why wikipedia would never have used .NET is because of their stance on using 100\% FOSS from the bottom up.
Wikipedia would never touch .NET with a 10 foot pole due to all of the legal questions around it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611728</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing (or Moron)- Speak!</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1269535740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given the number of incompatible platforms that qualify as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net, I would say it is an ecosystem. Between Mono, Windows<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net, and the various versions of Silverlight, calling it a 'platform' is somewhat disingenuous. I'd be fine with it, if I could just run my the code wherever I want. But you can't do that, because Microsoft has decided that multiple implementations are a better idea than one cross-platform one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given the number of incompatible platforms that qualify as .Net , I would say it is an ecosystem .
Between Mono , Windows .Net , and the various versions of Silverlight , calling it a 'platform ' is somewhat disingenuous .
I 'd be fine with it , if I could just run my the code wherever I want .
But you ca n't do that , because Microsoft has decided that multiple implementations are a better idea than one cross-platform one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given the number of incompatible platforms that qualify as .Net, I would say it is an ecosystem.
Between Mono, Windows .Net, and the various versions of Silverlight, calling it a 'platform' is somewhat disingenuous.
I'd be fine with it, if I could just run my the code wherever I want.
But you can't do that, because Microsoft has decided that multiple implementations are a better idea than one cross-platform one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612846</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>wall0159</author>
	<datestamp>1269539040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Without wanting to sound like a fanboi, Stallman is \_usually\_ right (I can't think of anything I've heard him say that, on reflection, I haven't agreed with). Unfortunately, he's also a fairly eccentric person, and people don't generally seem to respect the ideas of those that seem different.</p><p>I hope future generations come to recognise his wisdom...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without wanting to sound like a fanboi , Stallman is \ _usually \ _ right ( I ca n't think of anything I 've heard him say that , on reflection , I have n't agreed with ) .
Unfortunately , he 's also a fairly eccentric person , and people do n't generally seem to respect the ideas of those that seem different.I hope future generations come to recognise his wisdom.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without wanting to sound like a fanboi, Stallman is \_usually\_ right (I can't think of anything I've heard him say that, on reflection, I haven't agreed with).
Unfortunately, he's also a fairly eccentric person, and people don't generally seem to respect the ideas of those that seem different.I hope future generations come to recognise his wisdom...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615996</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269549180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic. Well, most voices on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. called him the same thing. He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start. You can't have half-measures.</p></div><p>Yes, but you can halve half-measures to get quarter-measures.  Which, of course, is twenty five scent measures which should be enough perfume to overpower the stench of any patent laden technology.  Then again, I may have been sniffing around too hard for a bad pun, and NO amount of perfume can cover THAT up.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When Stallman said the same thing , de Icaza called him a fanatic .
Well , most voices on / .
called him the same thing .
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start .
You ca n't have half-measures.Yes , but you can halve half-measures to get quarter-measures .
Which , of course , is twenty five scent measures which should be enough perfume to overpower the stench of any patent laden technology .
Then again , I may have been sniffing around too hard for a bad pun , and NO amount of perfume can cover THAT up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When Stallman said the same thing, de Icaza called him a fanatic.
Well, most voices on /.
called him the same thing.
He was right then like he was right with his movement from the start.
You can't have half-measures.Yes, but you can halve half-measures to get quarter-measures.
Which, of course, is twenty five scent measures which should be enough perfume to overpower the stench of any patent laden technology.
Then again, I may have been sniffing around too hard for a bad pun, and NO amount of perfume can cover THAT up.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613170</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1269540180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>from what I've seen of his comments, he most likely has only admitted that Microsoft is making it difficult for him to continue pushing Microsoft software to the open source crowds. I ran across an OpenGL forum where they were discussing OpenGL vs Microsoft DirectX/Direct3D and once again, people brought up MS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net and Mono and therefore the patent issues and Miguel got involved in the discussion. His best rebuttal was to say that as long as you stick with the ECMA implementations you're ok. Ofcourse, others said that without the frameworks which Windows developers are constantly enticed to use and are using, what is the purpose of using any of what's left.<br><br>What really surprises me is how Miguel just does not get it that Microsoft is a business and as such they must protect their profits and their standard business method for doing that is to make sure EVERYTHING they do has a way to protect the Windows platform. They do not make software for other platforms and any ability to run on another platform threatens their profits from Windows. Which BTW is where they get over 80\% of their profits and the rest is tied to Windows. So you will NEVER get something from Microsoft which has much value off of Windows or else they will have ways to limit its value. They have never been platform agnostic and never will be. It's all about Windows baby so if you care about competition and platform choice, you can never pick a Microsoft technology. IMO<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>from what I 've seen of his comments , he most likely has only admitted that Microsoft is making it difficult for him to continue pushing Microsoft software to the open source crowds .
I ran across an OpenGL forum where they were discussing OpenGL vs Microsoft DirectX/Direct3D and once again , people brought up MS .Net and Mono and therefore the patent issues and Miguel got involved in the discussion .
His best rebuttal was to say that as long as you stick with the ECMA implementations you 're ok. Ofcourse , others said that without the frameworks which Windows developers are constantly enticed to use and are using , what is the purpose of using any of what 's left.What really surprises me is how Miguel just does not get it that Microsoft is a business and as such they must protect their profits and their standard business method for doing that is to make sure EVERYTHING they do has a way to protect the Windows platform .
They do not make software for other platforms and any ability to run on another platform threatens their profits from Windows .
Which BTW is where they get over 80 \ % of their profits and the rest is tied to Windows .
So you will NEVER get something from Microsoft which has much value off of Windows or else they will have ways to limit its value .
They have never been platform agnostic and never will be .
It 's all about Windows baby so if you care about competition and platform choice , you can never pick a Microsoft technology .
IMOLoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>from what I've seen of his comments, he most likely has only admitted that Microsoft is making it difficult for him to continue pushing Microsoft software to the open source crowds.
I ran across an OpenGL forum where they were discussing OpenGL vs Microsoft DirectX/Direct3D and once again, people brought up MS .Net and Mono and therefore the patent issues and Miguel got involved in the discussion.
His best rebuttal was to say that as long as you stick with the ECMA implementations you're ok. Ofcourse, others said that without the frameworks which Windows developers are constantly enticed to use and are using, what is the purpose of using any of what's left.What really surprises me is how Miguel just does not get it that Microsoft is a business and as such they must protect their profits and their standard business method for doing that is to make sure EVERYTHING they do has a way to protect the Windows platform.
They do not make software for other platforms and any ability to run on another platform threatens their profits from Windows.
Which BTW is where they get over 80\% of their profits and the rest is tied to Windows.
So you will NEVER get something from Microsoft which has much value off of Windows or else they will have ways to limit its value.
They have never been platform agnostic and never will be.
It's all about Windows baby so if you care about competition and platform choice, you can never pick a Microsoft technology.
IMOLoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612646</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>natet</author>
	<datestamp>1269538500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most of us did tell him that years ago.  He refused to listen.  Better late than never, I guess.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of us did tell him that years ago .
He refused to listen .
Better late than never , I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of us did tell him that years ago.
He refused to listen.
Better late than never, I guess.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612748</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269538800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My guess? None. He knew it from the beginning, he's just not being bribed enough as of late.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess ?
None. He knew it from the beginning , he 's just not being bribed enough as of late .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess?
None. He knew it from the beginning, he's just not being bribed enough as of late.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612076</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>ink</author>
	<datestamp>1269536760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a Java and C++ developer, I'm jealous of several language features found in C# -- especially properties.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Java and C + + developer , I 'm jealous of several language features found in C # -- especially properties .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Java and C++ developer, I'm jealous of several language features found in C# -- especially properties.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613464</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1269541080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why lose respect for Novell or their spokesperson sharing his honest opinion?  It's well-known that Microsoft stifles creativity with their legal team constantly hovering over the users &amp; programmers.  Well... unless.....<br>.</p><p>Unless you're an Appl(bkspc)(bkspc)(bkspc)..... Microsoft fanboy.  I met one yesterday at the FOX News chat room.  He said and I quote, "Microsoft is an amazing company.  They make the best products, best services, and best connectivity.  They may be a little slow to innovate, but they always arrive with the most-advanced unit - like Xbox 360."</p><p>First I told him that X360 is a fine product, but I like my N64, PS1/PS2, and Wii better.  (He then called Wii inferior 480i crap, and Nintendo games lousy with poor plot.)   -  Second, I told him my 20+ years of experience with Microsoft (windows 3 to 7) tells me the exact opposite of his opinion, and that's why I used alternatives like Commodore, GEOS, Amiga, and Macintosh during the 80s and 90s until I finally caved to the inevitable facts (windows is defacto standard with &gt;90\% uptake).  BUT I still consider MS to be inferior overall and use alternative programs where possible.      -  He called me a right-brained, female Progressive, said open-source "Firefox is shit", Linux is crap, hopes my sex life with Steve Jobs &amp; Apple is be great, and told me to leave the room.</p><p>No I'm not exaggerating.</p><p><b>Anyway   </b>   other than these types of persons, most technically-minded people acknowledge that Microsoft produces second- or third-rate products that are buggy, insecure (IE8 still has years-old holes), and stifled by legal teams that make RIAA look friendly.</p><p>IMHO.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why lose respect for Novell or their spokesperson sharing his honest opinion ?
It 's well-known that Microsoft stifles creativity with their legal team constantly hovering over the users &amp; programmers .
Well... unless......Unless you 're an Appl ( bkspc ) ( bkspc ) ( bkspc ) ..... Microsoft fanboy .
I met one yesterday at the FOX News chat room .
He said and I quote , " Microsoft is an amazing company .
They make the best products , best services , and best connectivity .
They may be a little slow to innovate , but they always arrive with the most-advanced unit - like Xbox 360 .
" First I told him that X360 is a fine product , but I like my N64 , PS1/PS2 , and Wii better .
( He then called Wii inferior 480i crap , and Nintendo games lousy with poor plot .
) - Second , I told him my 20 + years of experience with Microsoft ( windows 3 to 7 ) tells me the exact opposite of his opinion , and that 's why I used alternatives like Commodore , GEOS , Amiga , and Macintosh during the 80s and 90s until I finally caved to the inevitable facts ( windows is defacto standard with &gt; 90 \ % uptake ) .
BUT I still consider MS to be inferior overall and use alternative programs where possible .
- He called me a right-brained , female Progressive , said open-source " Firefox is shit " , Linux is crap , hopes my sex life with Steve Jobs &amp; Apple is be great , and told me to leave the room.No I 'm not exaggerating.Anyway other than these types of persons , most technically-minded people acknowledge that Microsoft produces second- or third-rate products that are buggy , insecure ( IE8 still has years-old holes ) , and stifled by legal teams that make RIAA look friendly.IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why lose respect for Novell or their spokesperson sharing his honest opinion?
It's well-known that Microsoft stifles creativity with their legal team constantly hovering over the users &amp; programmers.
Well... unless......Unless you're an Appl(bkspc)(bkspc)(bkspc)..... Microsoft fanboy.
I met one yesterday at the FOX News chat room.
He said and I quote, "Microsoft is an amazing company.
They make the best products, best services, and best connectivity.
They may be a little slow to innovate, but they always arrive with the most-advanced unit - like Xbox 360.
"First I told him that X360 is a fine product, but I like my N64, PS1/PS2, and Wii better.
(He then called Wii inferior 480i crap, and Nintendo games lousy with poor plot.
)   -  Second, I told him my 20+ years of experience with Microsoft (windows 3 to 7) tells me the exact opposite of his opinion, and that's why I used alternatives like Commodore, GEOS, Amiga, and Macintosh during the 80s and 90s until I finally caved to the inevitable facts (windows is defacto standard with &gt;90\% uptake).
BUT I still consider MS to be inferior overall and use alternative programs where possible.
-  He called me a right-brained, female Progressive, said open-source "Firefox is shit", Linux is crap, hopes my sex life with Steve Jobs &amp; Apple is be great, and told me to leave the room.No I'm not exaggerating.Anyway      other than these types of persons, most technically-minded people acknowledge that Microsoft produces second- or third-rate products that are buggy, insecure (IE8 still has years-old holes), and stifled by legal teams that make RIAA look friendly.IMHO.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612856</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269539100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>could have been built</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>could have been built</tokentext>
<sentencetext>could have been built</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614456</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>David Gerard</author>
	<datestamp>1269544080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, no, no I don't - his statement is self-evidently blitheringly stupid. But I will note that Microsoft use MediaWiki (the original PHP horror) internally, rather than a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , no , no I do n't - his statement is self-evidently blitheringly stupid .
But I will note that Microsoft use MediaWiki ( the original PHP horror ) internally , rather than a .NET thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, no, no I don't - his statement is self-evidently blitheringly stupid.
But I will note that Microsoft use MediaWiki (the original PHP horror) internally, rather than a .NET thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611506</id>
	<title>Oh Noes!</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1269535080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sky in Miguel de Icaza's world just turned blue!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sky in Miguel de Icaza 's world just turned blue !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sky in Miguel de Icaza's world just turned blue!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614728</id>
	<title>Re:The harm is done</title>
	<author>caseih</author>
	<datestamp>1269544920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No not really.  Mono isn't used by any core parts of Gnome and the things that are based on mono (fspot, etc), are based on things (C# and the CLR) that are either in the EMCA spec, or have nothing to do with Microsoft at all (GTK#).  So Gnome is not in danger.  I agree that C# apps should be removed from the standard distribution and replaced with apps written in C, C++, Python, etc, and that is already happening.  Tomboy has pretty much been replace with gnote.</p><p>But in general I cannot agree that harm has been done to Gnome.</p><p>The real harm De Icaza has caused is in the other parts of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET he implemented, such as winforms, the web application serving parts, and Moonlight.  Any developer who buys into those has suddenly adopted a huge liability risk.  At the same time De Icaza has helped push proprietary technology lock-in with the false promise that it will remain accessible on non-Windows platforms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No not really .
Mono is n't used by any core parts of Gnome and the things that are based on mono ( fspot , etc ) , are based on things ( C # and the CLR ) that are either in the EMCA spec , or have nothing to do with Microsoft at all ( GTK # ) .
So Gnome is not in danger .
I agree that C # apps should be removed from the standard distribution and replaced with apps written in C , C + + , Python , etc , and that is already happening .
Tomboy has pretty much been replace with gnote.But in general I can not agree that harm has been done to Gnome.The real harm De Icaza has caused is in the other parts of .NET he implemented , such as winforms , the web application serving parts , and Moonlight .
Any developer who buys into those has suddenly adopted a huge liability risk .
At the same time De Icaza has helped push proprietary technology lock-in with the false promise that it will remain accessible on non-Windows platforms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No not really.
Mono isn't used by any core parts of Gnome and the things that are based on mono (fspot, etc), are based on things (C# and the CLR) that are either in the EMCA spec, or have nothing to do with Microsoft at all (GTK#).
So Gnome is not in danger.
I agree that C# apps should be removed from the standard distribution and replaced with apps written in C, C++, Python, etc, and that is already happening.
Tomboy has pretty much been replace with gnote.But in general I cannot agree that harm has been done to Gnome.The real harm De Icaza has caused is in the other parts of .NET he implemented, such as winforms, the web application serving parts, and Moonlight.
Any developer who buys into those has suddenly adopted a huge liability risk.
At the same time De Icaza has helped push proprietary technology lock-in with the false promise that it will remain accessible on non-Windows platforms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614282</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269543420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus\_Microsoft\_Hatred\_Is\_a\_Disease\_" title="osnews.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus\_Microsoft\_Hatred\_Is\_a\_Disease\_</a> [osnews.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus \ _Microsoft \ _Hatred \ _Is \ _a \ _Disease \ _ [ osnews.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus\_Microsoft\_Hatred\_Is\_a\_Disease\_ [osnews.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31617868</id>
	<title>delphi was cool, VB predates it by a lot</title>
	<author>curri</author>
	<datestamp>1269512520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Delphi was a cool tool, but VB was already entrenched when Delphi came out, which is (at least partly) why Delphi never became popular; Delphi was a response to VB, not the other way around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Delphi was a cool tool , but VB was already entrenched when Delphi came out , which is ( at least partly ) why Delphi never became popular ; Delphi was a response to VB , not the other way around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Delphi was a cool tool, but VB was already entrenched when Delphi came out, which is (at least partly) why Delphi never became popular; Delphi was a response to VB, not the other way around.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613598</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1269541440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this? Most of us could have told him that with seconds.</p></div></blockquote><p>Most of us did tell him that, repeatedly, right here on Slashdot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this ?
Most of us could have told him that with seconds.Most of us did tell him that , repeatedly , right here on Slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It took how many years for Miguel de Icaza to realize this?
Most of us could have told him that with seconds.Most of us did tell him that, repeatedly, right here on Slashdot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31622824</id>
	<title>Re:De Icaza is Novell veep?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269635220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fun to see that only IRRELEVANT comments are not censored.</p><p>Shlashdot is actually CENSORING guys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fun to see that only IRRELEVANT comments are not censored.Shlashdot is actually CENSORING guys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fun to see that only IRRELEVANT comments are not censored.Shlashdot is actually CENSORING guys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614758</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>miguel</author>
	<datestamp>1269544980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are mixing two different things.</p><p>Microsoft claims that they have patents had a chilling effect on Mono adoption.</p><p>That does not mean that I do not stand 100\% by our position in the Mono project regarding patents.   To begin with, we think it is a bullshit argument, since everything you use is infringing on someone else's patents (Microsoft included).</p><p>Microsoft like any other corporation will do a cost/benefit analysis of suing someone over patents.   So far the kernel has been a juicier target than Mono has.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are mixing two different things.Microsoft claims that they have patents had a chilling effect on Mono adoption.That does not mean that I do not stand 100 \ % by our position in the Mono project regarding patents .
To begin with , we think it is a bullshit argument , since everything you use is infringing on someone else 's patents ( Microsoft included ) .Microsoft like any other corporation will do a cost/benefit analysis of suing someone over patents .
So far the kernel has been a juicier target than Mono has .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are mixing two different things.Microsoft claims that they have patents had a chilling effect on Mono adoption.That does not mean that I do not stand 100\% by our position in the Mono project regarding patents.
To begin with, we think it is a bullshit argument, since everything you use is infringing on someone else's patents (Microsoft included).Microsoft like any other corporation will do a cost/benefit analysis of suing someone over patents.
So far the kernel has been a juicier target than Mono has.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611678</id>
	<title>MS is a more aggressive business than SUN</title>
	<author>Viol8</author>
	<datestamp>1269535620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All MS is interested in is the bottom line. If they allow free implementations of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET then as far as they see it they'll lose sales on their<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET compiler and whats more may even lose Windows sales if people port their<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET apps to a-n-other platform.</p><p>I'm not saying they're right but thats probably the way their short term thinking marketing and legal dept see it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All MS is interested in is the bottom line .
If they allow free implementations of .NET then as far as they see it they 'll lose sales on their .NET compiler and whats more may even lose Windows sales if people port their .NET apps to a-n-other platform.I 'm not saying they 're right but thats probably the way their short term thinking marketing and legal dept see it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All MS is interested in is the bottom line.
If they allow free implementations of .NET then as far as they see it they'll lose sales on their .NET compiler and whats more may even lose Windows sales if people port their .NET apps to a-n-other platform.I'm not saying they're right but thats probably the way their short term thinking marketing and legal dept see it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31630226</id>
	<title>Re:You need to engage with the frameworks</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1269632100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write. He then rewrote it, emphasizing that simple words help communicate. Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is, but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners, because his real message is hidden behind confusion.</p></div><p>And your mistake is thinking that that was not the intent of management-speak. The standard way for a less-than-competent manager to protect his/her job is to obfuscate like crazy, because then they can't be held responsible for anything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write .
He then rewrote it , emphasizing that simple words help communicate .
Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is , but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners , because his real message is hidden behind confusion.And your mistake is thinking that that was not the intent of management-speak .
The standard way for a less-than-competent manager to protect his/her job is to obfuscate like crazy , because then they ca n't be held responsible for anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recall in Freshman Composition my professor used a similar example of how NOT to write.
He then rewrote it, emphasizing that simple words help communicate.
Multi-syllablic words merely indicate the speaker is trying to SOUND smarter than he really is, but communicates next to nothing to his readers or listeners, because his real message is hidden behind confusion.And your mistake is thinking that that was not the intent of management-speak.
The standard way for a less-than-competent manager to protect his/her job is to obfuscate like crazy, because then they can't be held responsible for anything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614260</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615454</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>paxcoder</author>
	<datestamp>1269547260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He said out of gnome. The above things also remove for example Tomboy, which is a part of the "gnome" package, so it gets removed too (not gdm, but the dummy package for gnome). A workaround is to install Gnote which is the same thing accept done without<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET (which also meets "gnome's" dependencies). But why do we have to - why not have Gnote instead in the first place?</p><p>(another<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET app is F-Spot, but if it's required, I'm guessing it can be replaced by GIMP - but don't take my word for it)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He said out of gnome .
The above things also remove for example Tomboy , which is a part of the " gnome " package , so it gets removed too ( not gdm , but the dummy package for gnome ) .
A workaround is to install Gnote which is the same thing accept done without .NET ( which also meets " gnome 's " dependencies ) .
But why do we have to - why not have Gnote instead in the first place ?
( another .NET app is F-Spot , but if it 's required , I 'm guessing it can be replaced by GIMP - but do n't take my word for it )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He said out of gnome.
The above things also remove for example Tomboy, which is a part of the "gnome" package, so it gets removed too (not gdm, but the dummy package for gnome).
A workaround is to install Gnote which is the same thing accept done without .NET (which also meets "gnome's" dependencies).
But why do we have to - why not have Gnote instead in the first place?
(another .NET app is F-Spot, but if it's required, I'm guessing it can be replaced by GIMP - but don't take my word for it)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612490</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269537960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>C# as a language is as close to C++ as Java.
</p></div><p>As a C++ Development Consultant, no it isn't.<br>

The C++ template mechanism alone is turing-complete.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>C # as a language is as close to C + + as Java .
As a C + + Development Consultant , no it is n't .
The C + + template mechanism alone is turing-complete .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>C# as a language is as close to C++ as Java.
As a C++ Development Consultant, no it isn't.
The C++ template mechanism alone is turing-complete.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614914</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>SuperMoco</author>
	<datestamp>1269545460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He was right, but still, he is a fanatic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He was right , but still , he is a fanatic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He was right, but still, he is a fanatic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612048</id>
	<title>Re:So, Miguel</title>
	<author>ink</author>
	<datestamp>1269536700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because Microsoft is taking its dotNet patent ball and going home with it, doesn't mean that Mono is fundamentally flawed.  Take the Mono bindings for dbus and Gnome-Do as an example.  The code is very easy to understand and very powerful.  Hopefully Mono will now be freed from having to track Microsoft's API hell, and it can truly blossom as an open-source software stack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because Microsoft is taking its dotNet patent ball and going home with it , does n't mean that Mono is fundamentally flawed .
Take the Mono bindings for dbus and Gnome-Do as an example .
The code is very easy to understand and very powerful .
Hopefully Mono will now be freed from having to track Microsoft 's API hell , and it can truly blossom as an open-source software stack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because Microsoft is taking its dotNet patent ball and going home with it, doesn't mean that Mono is fundamentally flawed.
Take the Mono bindings for dbus and Gnome-Do as an example.
The code is very easy to understand and very powerful.
Hopefully Mono will now be freed from having to track Microsoft's API hell, and it can truly blossom as an open-source software stack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613166</id>
	<title>Re:C# and F#</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269540180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do you need F# for?  Just use ML if you like that kind of functional programming language.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you need F # for ?
Just use ML if you like that kind of functional programming language .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you need F# for?
Just use ML if you like that kind of functional programming language.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612446</id>
	<title>Re:O rly.</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1269537840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software. It ran at half the speed of the Java version.</p></div><p>Mono runtime (both JIT and GC) sucks, to be honest - compared to both Sun JVM, and MS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET VM. Any<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET vs Java performance comparison that uses Mono is thus flawed from the get go.</p><p>It's faster than Python, though, I'll grant them that...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C # on Mono for a while , when Java was n't yet sufficiently free software .
It ran at half the speed of the Java version.Mono runtime ( both JIT and GC ) sucks , to be honest - compared to both Sun JVM , and MS .NET VM .
Any .NET vs Java performance comparison that uses Mono is thus flawed from the get go.It 's faster than Python , though , I 'll grant them that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although the WMF Lucene search implementation was done in C# on Mono for a while, when Java wasn't yet sufficiently free software.
It ran at half the speed of the Java version.Mono runtime (both JIT and GC) sucks, to be honest - compared to both Sun JVM, and MS .NET VM.
Any .NET vs Java performance comparison that uses Mono is thus flawed from the get go.It's faster than Python, though, I'll grant them that...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614630</id>
	<title>So leave MS. Mono is cooler than .Net, way cooler.</title>
	<author>Qbertino</author>
	<datestamp>1269544620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mono is cool and Miguel should right away take the consequences of his late insight on to this issue and publicly announce that compliance with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net is not Monos prime goal anymore. As far as I can tell there are more usefull tools and programms built with Mono than with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Not (Unity 3D comes to mind). He could walk away from all-out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net compliance right now and MS would be the looser on this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mono is cool and Miguel should right away take the consequences of his late insight on to this issue and publicly announce that compliance with .Net is not Monos prime goal anymore .
As far as I can tell there are more usefull tools and programms built with Mono than with .Not ( Unity 3D comes to mind ) .
He could walk away from all-out .Net compliance right now and MS would be the looser on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mono is cool and Miguel should right away take the consequences of his late insight on to this issue and publicly announce that compliance with .Net is not Monos prime goal anymore.
As far as I can tell there are more usefull tools and programms built with Mono than with .Not (Unity 3D comes to mind).
He could walk away from all-out .Net compliance right now and MS would be the looser on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615646</id>
	<title>No Santa Claus</title>
	<author>roman\_mir</author>
	<datestamp>1269547920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel kind of bad for Miguel, he sounds like a kid, who just realized that there is no Santa Claus.  It's sad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel kind of bad for Miguel , he sounds like a kid , who just realized that there is no Santa Claus .
It 's sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel kind of bad for Miguel, he sounds like a kid, who just realized that there is no Santa Claus.
It's sad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613076</id>
	<title>Mono culture</title>
	<author>VGPowerlord</author>
	<datestamp>1269539820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, in other words, Microsoft is encouraging a monoculture rather than a <a href="http://www.mono-project.com/" title="mono-project.com">Mono</a> [mono-project.com] culture?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , in other words , Microsoft is encouraging a monoculture rather than a Mono [ mono-project.com ] culture ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, in other words, Microsoft is encouraging a monoculture rather than a Mono [mono-project.com] culture?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611382</id>
	<title>The original SD Times article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269534660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Taken from Google Cache: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:LPFDjfqGMRMJ:www.sdtimes.com/link/34203+Does+Windows+cost+Microsoft+opportunities&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us</p><p>Does Windows cost Microsoft opportunities?<br>By David Worthington</p><p>March 17, 2010 &mdash;<br>The evolution of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET Framework has won new users to the platform, and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft&rsquo;s stewardship has often been off-target.</p><p>Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza, who said<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft, and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform.</p><p>"Microsoft has shot the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem," he said. "Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them."</p><p>In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward. "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with."</p><p>Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) specification to ECMA International, which ratified it in 2001. Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET evolved.</p><p>Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3A1C93FA-7462-47D0-8E56-8DD34C6292F0&amp;displaylang=en" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">freely available</a> [microsoft.com], but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.</p><p>However, Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft, and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET due to Microsoft's statements about open-source software, de Icaza said.</p><p>"[Microsoft] would still be the No. 1 stack, but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform," he added.</p><p>Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, de Icaza claimed. "All of those are failed opportunities. Even if the cross-language story was great, the Web integration fantastic, the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted, people flocked elsewhere."</p><p>"To say that Google could have used<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is to undervalue both Google and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines," said Larry O'Brien, an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET column for SD Times. ".NET creates value from a fantastic IDE, great mainstream languages, and well-executed technologies like Silverlight, LINQ and the DLR [Dynamic Language Runtime]."</p><p>Despite the criticisms, customers are "making bets on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET" all the time, said Brandon Watson, director of product management for Microsoft's development platforms. "The fact that we didn't get Google&mdash;I'll cry a little, but not a lot. I'm not certain that Google wouldn't have taken a bet on philosophy, wanting to beat us."</p><p>Further, developers can build languages on top of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 4.0's dynamic language runtime, which supports both Python and Ruby, Watson said. But it's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification, such as the DLR, that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI's adoption.</p><p>Microsoft's submission to ECMA has remained at a "core level," de Icaza claimed. "I</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Taken from Google Cache : http : //74.125.93.132/search ? q = cache : LPFDjfqGMRMJ : www.sdtimes.com/link/34203 + Does + Windows + cost + Microsoft + opportunities&amp;cd = 1&amp;hl = en&amp;ct = clnk&amp;gl = usDoes Windows cost Microsoft opportunities ? By David WorthingtonMarch 17 , 2010    The evolution of the .NET Framework has won new users to the platform , and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft    s stewardship has often been off-target.Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza , who said .NET 's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft , and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform .
" Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem , " he said .
" Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations , the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [ Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer ] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them .
" In practice , the Java community only uses two or three JVMs ( IBM 's , JRockit , and OpenJDK from Sun ) , while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects , said author and consultant Ted Neward .
" Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with .
" Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure ( CLI ) specification to ECMA International , which ratified it in 2001 .
Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as .NET evolved.Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed " Rotor " freely available [ microsoft.com ] , but it has had little or no uptake , Neward noted.However , Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft , and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of .NET due to Microsoft 's statements about open-source software , de Icaza said .
" [ Microsoft ] would still be the No .
1 stack , but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform , " he added.Facebook , Google , Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET , de Icaza claimed .
" All of those are failed opportunities .
Even if the cross-language story was great , the Web integration fantastic , the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted , people flocked elsewhere .
" " To say that Google could have used .NET is to undervalue both Google and .NET .
Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines , " said Larry O'Brien , an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp; .NET column for SD Times .
" .NET creates value from a fantastic IDE , great mainstream languages , and well-executed technologies like Silverlight , LINQ and the DLR [ Dynamic Language Runtime ] .
" Despite the criticisms , customers are " making bets on .NET " all the time , said Brandon Watson , director of product management for Microsoft 's development platforms .
" The fact that we did n't get Google    I 'll cry a little , but not a lot .
I 'm not certain that Google would n't have taken a bet on philosophy , wanting to beat us .
" Further , developers can build languages on top of .NET 4.0 's dynamic language runtime , which supports both Python and Ruby , Watson said .
But it 's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification , such as the DLR , that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI 's adoption.Microsoft 's submission to ECMA has remained at a " core level , " de Icaza claimed .
" I</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Taken from Google Cache: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:LPFDjfqGMRMJ:www.sdtimes.com/link/34203+Does+Windows+cost+Microsoft+opportunities&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=usDoes Windows cost Microsoft opportunities?By David WorthingtonMarch 17, 2010 —The evolution of the .NET Framework has won new users to the platform, and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft’s stewardship has often been off-target.Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza, who said .NET's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft, and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform.
"Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem," he said.
"Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them.
"In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward.
"Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with.
"Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) specification to ECMA International, which ratified it in 2001.
Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as .NET evolved.Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" freely available [microsoft.com], but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.However, Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft, and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of .NET due to Microsoft's statements about open-source software, de Icaza said.
"[Microsoft] would still be the No.
1 stack, but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform," he added.Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET, de Icaza claimed.
"All of those are failed opportunities.
Even if the cross-language story was great, the Web integration fantastic, the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted, people flocked elsewhere.
""To say that Google could have used .NET is to undervalue both Google and .NET.
Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines," said Larry O'Brien, an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp; .NET column for SD Times.
".NET creates value from a fantastic IDE, great mainstream languages, and well-executed technologies like Silverlight, LINQ and the DLR [Dynamic Language Runtime].
"Despite the criticisms, customers are "making bets on .NET" all the time, said Brandon Watson, director of product management for Microsoft's development platforms.
"The fact that we didn't get Google—I'll cry a little, but not a lot.
I'm not certain that Google wouldn't have taken a bet on philosophy, wanting to beat us.
"Further, developers can build languages on top of .NET 4.0's dynamic language runtime, which supports both Python and Ruby, Watson said.
But it's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification, such as the DLR, that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI's adoption.Microsoft's submission to ECMA has remained at a "core level," de Icaza claimed.
"I</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31616574</id>
	<title>Re:Wah wah wah</title>
	<author>Penguinisto</author>
	<datestamp>1269507840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, err, you're building all of this, and trying to attract developers... on the basis of: <i>well, maybe they won't sue us because everyone is a crook and Microsoft probably won't see a benefit in suing you for using it, so...</i>?</p><p>I can't be the only one thinking 'WTF' here.</p><p>Seriously, Miguel - you need something better than that.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>/P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , err , you 're building all of this , and trying to attract developers... on the basis of : well , maybe they wo n't sue us because everyone is a crook and Microsoft probably wo n't see a benefit in suing you for using it , so... ? I ca n't be the only one thinking 'WTF ' here.Seriously , Miguel - you need something better than that .
/P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, err, you're building all of this, and trying to attract developers... on the basis of: well, maybe they won't sue us because everyone is a crook and Microsoft probably won't see a benefit in suing you for using it, so...?I can't be the only one thinking 'WTF' here.Seriously, Miguel - you need something better than that.
/P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614062</id>
	<title>Re:The harm is done</title>
	<author>Issarlk</author>
	<datestamp>1269542700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>So that mean Gnome will disapear? I fail to see the problem here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So that mean Gnome will disapear ?
I fail to see the problem here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So that mean Gnome will disapear?
I fail to see the problem here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31631914</id>
	<title>I have said it a million times before:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269595860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for i in range(1000000):<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; print "Python! It rocks! Open Source! Cross platform!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for i in range ( 1000000 ) :       print " Python !
It rocks !
Open Source !
Cross platform !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for i in range(1000000):
      print "Python!
It rocks!
Open Source!
Cross platform!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615396</id>
	<title>Gone, but not forgotten...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269547140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The original SD times article came up in searches, then disappeared.  Then it was supposed to be in Google cache, but that disappeared too.  I found it on Slate, but it might go away soon too, so I made a copy and present it here (just in case some web censor decides to bellyache and make the article go away somewhere else).  Behold:<br>Does Windows cost Microsoft opportunities? - SD Times: Software Development News<br>Does Windows cost Microsoft opportunities?<br>By David Worthington<br>March 17, 2010 &mdash;<br>The evolution of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET Framework has won new users to the platform, and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft&rsquo;s stewardship has often been off-target.<br>Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza, who said<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft, and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform.<br>"Microsoft has shot the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem," he said.<br>"Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them."<br>In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward. "Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with."<br>Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) specification to ECMA International, which ratified it in 2001. Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET evolved.<br>Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" freely available, but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.<br>However, Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft, and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET due to Microsoft's statements about open-source software, de Icaza said.<br>"[Microsoft] would still be the No. 1 stack, but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform," he added.<br>Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, de Icaza claimed. "All of those are failed opportunities. Even if the cross-language story was great, the Web integration fantastic, the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted, people flocked elsewhere."<br>"To say that Google could have used<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is to undervalue both Google and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines," said Larry O'Brien, an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET column for SD Times. ".NET creates value from a fantastic IDE, great mainstream languages, and well-executed technologies like Silverlight, LINQ and the DLR [Dynamic Language Runtime]."<br>Despite the criticisms, customers are "making bets on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET" all the time, said Brandon Watson, director of product management for Microsoft's development platforms. "The fact that we didn't get Google&mdash;I'll cry a little, but not a lot. I'm not certain that Google wouldn't have taken a bet on philosophy, wanting to beat us."<br>Further, developers can build languages on top of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 4.0's dynamic language runtime, which supports both Python and Ruby, Watson said. But it's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification, such as the DLR, that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI's adoption.<br>Microsoft's s</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The original SD times article came up in searches , then disappeared .
Then it was supposed to be in Google cache , but that disappeared too .
I found it on Slate , but it might go away soon too , so I made a copy and present it here ( just in case some web censor decides to bellyache and make the article go away somewhere else ) .
Behold : Does Windows cost Microsoft opportunities ?
- SD Times : Software Development NewsDoes Windows cost Microsoft opportunities ? By David WorthingtonMarch 17 , 2010    The evolution of the .NET Framework has won new users to the platform , and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft    s stewardship has often been off-target.Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza , who said .NET 's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft , and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform .
" Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem , " he said .
" Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations , the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [ Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer ] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them .
" In practice , the Java community only uses two or three JVMs ( IBM 's , JRockit , and OpenJDK from Sun ) , while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects , said author and consultant Ted Neward .
" Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with .
" Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure ( CLI ) specification to ECMA International , which ratified it in 2001 .
Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as .NET evolved.Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed " Rotor " freely available , but it has had little or no uptake , Neward noted.However , Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft , and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of .NET due to Microsoft 's statements about open-source software , de Icaza said .
" [ Microsoft ] would still be the No .
1 stack , but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform , " he added.Facebook , Google , Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET , de Icaza claimed .
" All of those are failed opportunities .
Even if the cross-language story was great , the Web integration fantastic , the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted , people flocked elsewhere .
" " To say that Google could have used .NET is to undervalue both Google and .NET .
Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines , " said Larry O'Brien , an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp; .NET column for SD Times .
" .NET creates value from a fantastic IDE , great mainstream languages , and well-executed technologies like Silverlight , LINQ and the DLR [ Dynamic Language Runtime ] .
" Despite the criticisms , customers are " making bets on .NET " all the time , said Brandon Watson , director of product management for Microsoft 's development platforms .
" The fact that we did n't get Google    I 'll cry a little , but not a lot .
I 'm not certain that Google would n't have taken a bet on philosophy , wanting to beat us .
" Further , developers can build languages on top of .NET 4.0 's dynamic language runtime , which supports both Python and Ruby , Watson said .
But it 's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification , such as the DLR , that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI 's adoption.Microsoft 's s</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The original SD times article came up in searches, then disappeared.
Then it was supposed to be in Google cache, but that disappeared too.
I found it on Slate, but it might go away soon too, so I made a copy and present it here (just in case some web censor decides to bellyache and make the article go away somewhere else).
Behold:Does Windows cost Microsoft opportunities?
- SD Times: Software Development NewsDoes Windows cost Microsoft opportunities?By David WorthingtonMarch 17, 2010 —The evolution of the .NET Framework has won new users to the platform, and drawn its share of criticism from those who think Microsoft’s stewardship has often been off-target.Among the critics is Novell vice president Miguel de Icaza, who said .NET's focus on Windows has come at the expense of opportunities for Microsoft, and its desire to guard its intellectual property is an impediment on the platform.
"Microsoft has shot the .NET ecosystem in the foot because of the constant threat of patent infringement that they have cast on the ecosystem," he said.
"Unlike the Java world that is blossoming with dozens of vibrant Java Virtual Machine implementations, the .NET world has suffered by this meme spread by [Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer] that they would come after people that do not license patents from them.
"In practice, the Java community only uses two or three JVMs (IBM's, JRockit, and OpenJDK from Sun), while others are research efforts or smaller-scale open-source projects, said author and consultant Ted Neward.
"Virtual machines are not something the open-source community seems to want to experiment with.
"Microsoft submitted the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) specification to ECMA International, which ratified it in 2001.
Microsoft built technologies on top of the specification as .NET evolved.Microsoft has made an open-source CLI implementation codenamed "Rotor" freely available, but it has had little or no uptake, Neward noted.However, Mono remains the only implementer of the ECMA CLI specification outside of Microsoft, and that is a testament to the legal uncertainty surrounding some aspects of .NET due to Microsoft's statements about open-source software, de Icaza said.
"[Microsoft] would still be the No.
1 stack, but it would have encouraged an ecosystem that would have innovated extensively around their platform," he added.Facebook, Google, Ruby on Rails and Wikipedia could have been built using .NET, de Icaza claimed.
"All of those are failed opportunities.
Even if the cross-language story was great, the Web integration fantastic, the architecture was the right one to fit whatever flavor of a platform you wanted, people flocked elsewhere.
""To say that Google could have used .NET is to undervalue both Google and .NET.
Google creates value from things like distributed MapReduce and a brand-new system-level programming with concurrent coroutines," said Larry O'Brien, an independent analyst and consultant who writes the Windows &amp; .NET column for SD Times.
".NET creates value from a fantastic IDE, great mainstream languages, and well-executed technologies like Silverlight, LINQ and the DLR [Dynamic Language Runtime].
"Despite the criticisms, customers are "making bets on .NET" all the time, said Brandon Watson, director of product management for Microsoft's development platforms.
"The fact that we didn't get Google—I'll cry a little, but not a lot.
I'm not certain that Google wouldn't have taken a bet on philosophy, wanting to beat us.
"Further, developers can build languages on top of .NET 4.0's dynamic language runtime, which supports both Python and Ruby, Watson said.
But it's the addition of new technologies on top of the ECMA specification, such as the DLR, that de Icaza believes impedes the CLI's adoption.Microsoft's s</sentencetext>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618236
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31652556
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31618720
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31615454
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614806
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31624348
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612048
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614282
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_25_1331255.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611770
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31614698
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_25_1331255.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31611774
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31613338
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_25_1331255.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_25_1331255.31612294
</commentlist>
</conversation>
