<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_14_2219246</id>
	<title>SETI Is 50 Years Old; No Sign of ET</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1268568480000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>EagleHasLanded writes <i>"The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI">Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence</a> is 50 years old next month, and still no sign of intelligent alien life. <a href="http://cosmos.asu.edu/">Paul Davies</a> of the <a href="http://beyond.asu.edu/"> Beyond Center</a> (also <a href="http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/postdet.htm">Chairman of the SETI Post-Detection Taskgroup</a>) says it's <a href="http://failuremag.com/index.php/site/print/seti\_at\_50/"> time to re-think and expand the search</a> for ET."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>EagleHasLanded writes " The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence is 50 years old next month , and still no sign of intelligent alien life .
Paul Davies of the Beyond Center ( also Chairman of the SETI Post-Detection Taskgroup ) says it 's time to re-think and expand the search for ET .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EagleHasLanded writes "The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence is 50 years old next month, and still no sign of intelligent alien life.
Paul Davies of the  Beyond Center (also Chairman of the SETI Post-Detection Taskgroup) says it's  time to re-think and expand the search for ET.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476354</id>
	<title>Listening to the Heavens</title>
	<author>Kris Thalamus</author>
	<datestamp>1268573520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that any intelligent god that wasn't born on earth would be (by definition) an extraterrestrial intelligence, do any religious people expect SETI to one day contact one of the gods or find evidence for their existence?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that any intelligent god that was n't born on earth would be ( by definition ) an extraterrestrial intelligence , do any religious people expect SETI to one day contact one of the gods or find evidence for their existence ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that any intelligent god that wasn't born on earth would be (by definition) an extraterrestrial intelligence, do any religious people expect SETI to one day contact one of the gods or find evidence for their existence?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477404</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>aonic</author>
	<datestamp>1268580480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I moved to Taiwan, I found that there are trash cans next to every toilet, for that specific reason. Apparently a while ago their plumbing just couldn't handle toilet paper and the older generations still have the habit of trashing it.</p><p>It's really gross, but you don't need to leave this planet to find that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I moved to Taiwan , I found that there are trash cans next to every toilet , for that specific reason .
Apparently a while ago their plumbing just could n't handle toilet paper and the older generations still have the habit of trashing it.It 's really gross , but you do n't need to leave this planet to find that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I moved to Taiwan, I found that there are trash cans next to every toilet, for that specific reason.
Apparently a while ago their plumbing just couldn't handle toilet paper and the older generations still have the habit of trashing it.It's really gross, but you don't need to leave this planet to find that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476364</id>
	<title>Request Denied</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is this akin to having a Myspace/Facebook friend request ignored?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this akin to having a Myspace/Facebook friend request ignored ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this akin to having a Myspace/Facebook friend request ignored?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476524</id>
	<title>Sigh</title>
	<author>Junior J. Junior III</author>
	<datestamp>1268574600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the most, a SETI search could have detected intelligent, broadcasting in cleartext life at a range of 50 light years.  That's not terribly far.  And halve that if we're sending out a message and waiting on a return.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the most , a SETI search could have detected intelligent , broadcasting in cleartext life at a range of 50 light years .
That 's not terribly far .
And halve that if we 're sending out a message and waiting on a return .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the most, a SETI search could have detected intelligent, broadcasting in cleartext life at a range of 50 light years.
That's not terribly far.
And halve that if we're sending out a message and waiting on a return.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480346</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268657580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>barring special schemes designed to reduce intercept probability (generally used only by militaries), encrypted radio is easy to distinguish from noise. It looks just like any other use of digital radio; the only difference is that the contents appear random.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>barring special schemes designed to reduce intercept probability ( generally used only by militaries ) , encrypted radio is easy to distinguish from noise .
It looks just like any other use of digital radio ; the only difference is that the contents appear random .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>barring special schemes designed to reduce intercept probability (generally used only by militaries), encrypted radio is easy to distinguish from noise.
It looks just like any other use of digital radio; the only difference is that the contents appear random.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482872</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>hypergreatthing</author>
	<datestamp>1268672280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or better yet, did anyone stop and think that advanced civs don't use radio waves to communicate real time data? Maybe, just maybe, they found a way to implement quantum entanglement or some other form of exotic (to us) communication which allows distance to not be a factor?</p><p>because if there was a alien race which is so technologically more advanced than us that still uses radio waves as a form of communication, i'm not too sure i'd want to meet them.  They'd probably be as backwater and un-advanced as us.  Which would mean a tenancy to perform genocide as a form of preservation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or better yet , did anyone stop and think that advanced civs do n't use radio waves to communicate real time data ?
Maybe , just maybe , they found a way to implement quantum entanglement or some other form of exotic ( to us ) communication which allows distance to not be a factor ? because if there was a alien race which is so technologically more advanced than us that still uses radio waves as a form of communication , i 'm not too sure i 'd want to meet them .
They 'd probably be as backwater and un-advanced as us .
Which would mean a tenancy to perform genocide as a form of preservation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or better yet, did anyone stop and think that advanced civs don't use radio waves to communicate real time data?
Maybe, just maybe, they found a way to implement quantum entanglement or some other form of exotic (to us) communication which allows distance to not be a factor?because if there was a alien race which is so technologically more advanced than us that still uses radio waves as a form of communication, i'm not too sure i'd want to meet them.
They'd probably be as backwater and un-advanced as us.
Which would mean a tenancy to perform genocide as a form of preservation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477776</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1268584200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well if you're going to play the Deep Time card, then you're going to have to deal with the Fermi Paradox, which points out that any aliens out there have had plenty of time to drop by for a visit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well if you 're going to play the Deep Time card , then you 're going to have to deal with the Fermi Paradox , which points out that any aliens out there have had plenty of time to drop by for a visit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well if you're going to play the Deep Time card, then you're going to have to deal with the Fermi Paradox, which points out that any aliens out there have had plenty of time to drop by for a visit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477320</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268580000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?</p></div></blockquote><p>Or for a more pessimistic view, if the ETs are close enough to matter, the squabbles will get worse as all the sides try to get this new power to back them. Imagine every terrorist group in the world trying to convince ETs who don't know any better that their cause deserves military support. "We're not that 'God's Bloody Sword Of Conquest' group you may have heard about, at least not anymore, we're, umm, the Lemurian People! A whole race suffering under fierce secular liberal oppression! Could you drop an asteroid on Manchester for us? Thanks!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , honestly , if we know there is another alien life out there , that we could potentially communicate with , how many stupid squabbles would end ? Or for a more pessimistic view , if the ETs are close enough to matter , the squabbles will get worse as all the sides try to get this new power to back them .
Imagine every terrorist group in the world trying to convince ETs who do n't know any better that their cause deserves military support .
" We 're not that 'God 's Bloody Sword Of Conquest ' group you may have heard about , at least not anymore , we 're , umm , the Lemurian People !
A whole race suffering under fierce secular liberal oppression !
Could you drop an asteroid on Manchester for us ?
Thanks ! "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?Or for a more pessimistic view, if the ETs are close enough to matter, the squabbles will get worse as all the sides try to get this new power to back them.
Imagine every terrorist group in the world trying to convince ETs who don't know any better that their cause deserves military support.
"We're not that 'God's Bloody Sword Of Conquest' group you may have heard about, at least not anymore, we're, umm, the Lemurian People!
A whole race suffering under fierce secular liberal oppression!
Could you drop an asteroid on Manchester for us?
Thanks!"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478050</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh</title>
	<author>BlackHawk-666</author>
	<datestamp>1268586420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd be wrong.</p><p>You assume because they are detecting for 50 years they can only get signals from 50 light years away, but that is false.</p><p>A signal could have travelled for a thousand light years and still be detected if it travelled past a spot 50 light years out less than 50 years ago.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd be wrong.You assume because they are detecting for 50 years they can only get signals from 50 light years away , but that is false.A signal could have travelled for a thousand light years and still be detected if it travelled past a spot 50 light years out less than 50 years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd be wrong.You assume because they are detecting for 50 years they can only get signals from 50 light years away, but that is false.A signal could have travelled for a thousand light years and still be detected if it travelled past a spot 50 light years out less than 50 years ago.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480356</id>
	<title>Fermi paradox update</title>
	<author>migloo</author>
	<datestamp>1268657640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Three explanations at least to this "paradox":
<br>
Explanation 1<br>
Aliens are everywhere but shy enough to avoid being detected by ordinary idiots like us.
<br>
Explanation 2<br>
Evolution to a technological civilization is an extremely improbable accident. Vertebrates on earth have had enough equipment (say eyes and fingers) for hundred millions years to draw stuff on walls (which is the start of civilization) yet never "thought" of it until lately. It may well be the case that the accidental brain configuration that finally suggested that feat was absolutely improbable and normally never happens anywhere else.
<br>
Explanation 3<br>
When technology reaches a point near where we are now, it is unavoidably destructive of the species before it has time to escape its planet. We may be approaching the point where a single individual may spread disaster over the whole planet, volontarily or by error. <br>
This is the most likely explanation of the paradox in my opinion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Three explanations at least to this " paradox " : Explanation 1 Aliens are everywhere but shy enough to avoid being detected by ordinary idiots like us .
Explanation 2 Evolution to a technological civilization is an extremely improbable accident .
Vertebrates on earth have had enough equipment ( say eyes and fingers ) for hundred millions years to draw stuff on walls ( which is the start of civilization ) yet never " thought " of it until lately .
It may well be the case that the accidental brain configuration that finally suggested that feat was absolutely improbable and normally never happens anywhere else .
Explanation 3 When technology reaches a point near where we are now , it is unavoidably destructive of the species before it has time to escape its planet .
We may be approaching the point where a single individual may spread disaster over the whole planet , volontarily or by error .
This is the most likely explanation of the paradox in my opinion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three explanations at least to this "paradox":

Explanation 1
Aliens are everywhere but shy enough to avoid being detected by ordinary idiots like us.
Explanation 2
Evolution to a technological civilization is an extremely improbable accident.
Vertebrates on earth have had enough equipment (say eyes and fingers) for hundred millions years to draw stuff on walls (which is the start of civilization) yet never "thought" of it until lately.
It may well be the case that the accidental brain configuration that finally suggested that feat was absolutely improbable and normally never happens anywhere else.
Explanation 3
When technology reaches a point near where we are now, it is unavoidably destructive of the species before it has time to escape its planet.
We may be approaching the point where a single individual may spread disaster over the whole planet, volontarily or by error.
This is the most likely explanation of the paradox in my opinion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477704</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>SetupWeasel</author>
	<datestamp>1268583540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is foolish to assume that there is no other life in the universe. It is also foolish to assume it is only a matter of scanning the skies with a radio telescope to find it.</p><p>There are a lot of these "What if?", pie-in-the-sky arguments for SETI, but the hard truth is that it may be impossible for us to detect intelligent life with current instruments, and we have nothing we can do if we were to find that life.</p><p>I'd like someone to tell me the SETI endgame. Let's assume we can detect a signal. Then what? We can't communicate with them. We can't visit them. It wouldn't be likely that they are broadcasting information we could really use, and even if they were, it probably wouldn't be strong enough to decipher.</p><p>SETI is a foolish waste of money. People argue that it is like winning the lottery, and it is worth the cost to play. I say that the chances aren't significantly better paying a dollar for a number than they would be simply finding the winning number discarded in a gutter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is foolish to assume that there is no other life in the universe .
It is also foolish to assume it is only a matter of scanning the skies with a radio telescope to find it.There are a lot of these " What if ?
" , pie-in-the-sky arguments for SETI , but the hard truth is that it may be impossible for us to detect intelligent life with current instruments , and we have nothing we can do if we were to find that life.I 'd like someone to tell me the SETI endgame .
Let 's assume we can detect a signal .
Then what ?
We ca n't communicate with them .
We ca n't visit them .
It would n't be likely that they are broadcasting information we could really use , and even if they were , it probably would n't be strong enough to decipher.SETI is a foolish waste of money .
People argue that it is like winning the lottery , and it is worth the cost to play .
I say that the chances are n't significantly better paying a dollar for a number than they would be simply finding the winning number discarded in a gutter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is foolish to assume that there is no other life in the universe.
It is also foolish to assume it is only a matter of scanning the skies with a radio telescope to find it.There are a lot of these "What if?
", pie-in-the-sky arguments for SETI, but the hard truth is that it may be impossible for us to detect intelligent life with current instruments, and we have nothing we can do if we were to find that life.I'd like someone to tell me the SETI endgame.
Let's assume we can detect a signal.
Then what?
We can't communicate with them.
We can't visit them.
It wouldn't be likely that they are broadcasting information we could really use, and even if they were, it probably wouldn't be strong enough to decipher.SETI is a foolish waste of money.
People argue that it is like winning the lottery, and it is worth the cost to play.
I say that the chances aren't significantly better paying a dollar for a number than they would be simply finding the winning number discarded in a gutter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479276</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268646780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed totally.</p><p>And totally logical from one point of view.   Here i am an interstellar alien.  i got ships and technology and all kinds of neat stuff.<br>Do i go out in the universe and meet new people and help them along and give them stuff?  And be all like 'wow, other life exists! cool!'</p><p>Can you see US doing that?   Hell no, we're greedy!<br>We'll go out and take anything intresting that we can find from the universe, planet, or species.    When we find a new species what do we do...  Capture a dozen of them for study and potential exploitation as a resource.</p><p>Everything is either a threat or a resource to us.  And why wouldn't it be the same for any other species in the universe?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed totally.And totally logical from one point of view .
Here i am an interstellar alien .
i got ships and technology and all kinds of neat stuff.Do i go out in the universe and meet new people and help them along and give them stuff ?
And be all like 'wow , other life exists !
cool ! 'Can you see US doing that ?
Hell no , we 're greedy ! We 'll go out and take anything intresting that we can find from the universe , planet , or species .
When we find a new species what do we do... Capture a dozen of them for study and potential exploitation as a resource.Everything is either a threat or a resource to us .
And why would n't it be the same for any other species in the universe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed totally.And totally logical from one point of view.
Here i am an interstellar alien.
i got ships and technology and all kinds of neat stuff.Do i go out in the universe and meet new people and help them along and give them stuff?
And be all like 'wow, other life exists!
cool!'Can you see US doing that?
Hell no, we're greedy!We'll go out and take anything intresting that we can find from the universe, planet, or species.
When we find a new species what do we do...  Capture a dozen of them for study and potential exploitation as a resource.Everything is either a threat or a resource to us.
And why wouldn't it be the same for any other species in the universe?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</id>
	<title>After 50 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>50 years out of  13.75 &#177;0.17 billion years? People need to study <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2cmlhfdxuY&amp;feature=fvw" title="youtube.com">orders of magnitude</a> [youtube.com] before they get on SETI's case about not finding anything exciting. As with most scientific institutions of our day, the general populace/government's don't seem to care unless they see whizbangpops REAL-SOON-NOW.</htmltext>
<tokenext>50 years out of 13.75   0.17 billion years ?
People need to study orders of magnitude [ youtube.com ] before they get on SETI 's case about not finding anything exciting .
As with most scientific institutions of our day , the general populace/government 's do n't seem to care unless they see whizbangpops REAL-SOON-NOW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>50 years out of  13.75 ±0.17 billion years?
People need to study orders of magnitude [youtube.com] before they get on SETI's case about not finding anything exciting.
As with most scientific institutions of our day, the general populace/government's don't seem to care unless they see whizbangpops REAL-SOON-NOW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31485378</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268682120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><div class="quote"><p><b>"Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance. Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either. That'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions. They won't have to just be looking for us, they'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they're in that zone. Look too early or too late and we're invisible to them."</b> - by Todd Knarr (15451) on Sunday March 14, @07:44PM (#31476460) Homepage</p></div><p>Great point Todd: To add to it, I've heard that as we steadily begin to use more &amp; more satellite based communications, that "beam" transmission "downward/inward" into the Earth's atmosphere (vs. pell-mell outward), we'll be creating less &amp; less of a detectable "bubble" as you called it.</p><p>This made a LOT of sense to me, and might explain why there are no signs out there of "intelligent life" (what a 'wide-open term', lol, considering WE call ourselves that, &amp; yet we kill one another for shit like ca$h or power at the drop of a hat) out there... their "spheres of detection" are only there, for so long (probably passed us by before we were even in existence quite possibly)... I think you know WHERE I am going w/ this one (same place as you are really, just expanding on what you stated).</p><p>APK</p><p>P.S.=&gt; <b>Former "TEAM MICROSOFT" SETI member here</b> - I actually don't regret having done SETI for so long either (I started in 1999 on a PC, when it first opened to the public actually - took a break for a few years, &amp; went back iirc, circa 2004-2007 iirc again)...</p><p>I did it for years, @ the end for "TEAM MICROSOFT", &amp; I even got to #13 on their charts, &amp; then? Then, I moved onto other things (the more immediately beneficial distributed projects that deal in cancer protein folding (FOLDING @ HOME) etc./et al, over time)... why? More immediately useful data I felt actually - for the benefit of mankind. The main gain I felt SETI provided, was sort of a "STELLAR CARTOGRAPHER" type benefit (since no "E.T.'s" have actually ever been found, yet that is, via SETI), &amp; hopefully?? The data from SETI will help point our first star-travellers to Suns that MAY actually HARBOR what we call "intelligent life" (i.e., imo, technological civilizations).</p><p>Still, SETI was fun! I even used it as a "performance benchmark" @ one point, using the character-mode/DOS prompt/tty console model set into HIGH CPU PRIORITY &amp; the whole 9 yards. It actually acted as a "decent gauge" of processing power I felt, because as I moved onto more powerful systems over time? I definitely saw speed increases, confirming my purchases on being superior on this type of processing @ least, no less!</p><p>(Another nice thing was that SETI sent my name on some plaque in some exploration satellite off to some other distant place in the cosmos - I thought that was pretty cool also!)... apk</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Eventually we 'll be broadcasting so little that we wo n't be detectable at any reasonable distance .
Anybody inside that inner surface wo n't be able to see us either .
That 'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions .
They wo n't have to just be looking for us , they 'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they 're in that zone .
Look too early or too late and we 're invisible to them .
" - by Todd Knarr ( 15451 ) on Sunday March 14 , @ 07 : 44PM ( # 31476460 ) HomepageGreat point Todd : To add to it , I 've heard that as we steadily begin to use more &amp; more satellite based communications , that " beam " transmission " downward/inward " into the Earth 's atmosphere ( vs. pell-mell outward ) , we 'll be creating less &amp; less of a detectable " bubble " as you called it.This made a LOT of sense to me , and might explain why there are no signs out there of " intelligent life " ( what a 'wide-open term ' , lol , considering WE call ourselves that , &amp; yet we kill one another for shit like ca $ h or power at the drop of a hat ) out there... their " spheres of detection " are only there , for so long ( probably passed us by before we were even in existence quite possibly ) ... I think you know WHERE I am going w/ this one ( same place as you are really , just expanding on what you stated ) .APKP.S. = &gt; Former " TEAM MICROSOFT " SETI member here - I actually do n't regret having done SETI for so long either ( I started in 1999 on a PC , when it first opened to the public actually - took a break for a few years , &amp; went back iirc , circa 2004-2007 iirc again ) ...I did it for years , @ the end for " TEAM MICROSOFT " , &amp; I even got to # 13 on their charts , &amp; then ?
Then , I moved onto other things ( the more immediately beneficial distributed projects that deal in cancer protein folding ( FOLDING @ HOME ) etc./et al , over time ) ... why ? More immediately useful data I felt actually - for the benefit of mankind .
The main gain I felt SETI provided , was sort of a " STELLAR CARTOGRAPHER " type benefit ( since no " E.T .
's " have actually ever been found , yet that is , via SETI ) , &amp; hopefully ? ?
The data from SETI will help point our first star-travellers to Suns that MAY actually HARBOR what we call " intelligent life " ( i.e. , imo , technological civilizations ) .Still , SETI was fun !
I even used it as a " performance benchmark " @ one point , using the character-mode/DOS prompt/tty console model set into HIGH CPU PRIORITY &amp; the whole 9 yards .
It actually acted as a " decent gauge " of processing power I felt , because as I moved onto more powerful systems over time ?
I definitely saw speed increases , confirming my purchases on being superior on this type of processing @ least , no less !
( Another nice thing was that SETI sent my name on some plaque in some exploration satellite off to some other distant place in the cosmos - I thought that was pretty cool also ! ) .. .
apk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance.
Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either.
That'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions.
They won't have to just be looking for us, they'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they're in that zone.
Look too early or too late and we're invisible to them.
" - by Todd Knarr (15451) on Sunday March 14, @07:44PM (#31476460) HomepageGreat point Todd: To add to it, I've heard that as we steadily begin to use more &amp; more satellite based communications, that "beam" transmission "downward/inward" into the Earth's atmosphere (vs. pell-mell outward), we'll be creating less &amp; less of a detectable "bubble" as you called it.This made a LOT of sense to me, and might explain why there are no signs out there of "intelligent life" (what a 'wide-open term', lol, considering WE call ourselves that, &amp; yet we kill one another for shit like ca$h or power at the drop of a hat) out there... their "spheres of detection" are only there, for so long (probably passed us by before we were even in existence quite possibly)... I think you know WHERE I am going w/ this one (same place as you are really, just expanding on what you stated).APKP.S.=&gt; Former "TEAM MICROSOFT" SETI member here - I actually don't regret having done SETI for so long either (I started in 1999 on a PC, when it first opened to the public actually - took a break for a few years, &amp; went back iirc, circa 2004-2007 iirc again)...I did it for years, @ the end for "TEAM MICROSOFT", &amp; I even got to #13 on their charts, &amp; then?
Then, I moved onto other things (the more immediately beneficial distributed projects that deal in cancer protein folding (FOLDING @ HOME) etc./et al, over time)... why? More immediately useful data I felt actually - for the benefit of mankind.
The main gain I felt SETI provided, was sort of a "STELLAR CARTOGRAPHER" type benefit (since no "E.T.
's" have actually ever been found, yet that is, via SETI), &amp; hopefully??
The data from SETI will help point our first star-travellers to Suns that MAY actually HARBOR what we call "intelligent life" (i.e., imo, technological civilizations).Still, SETI was fun!
I even used it as a "performance benchmark" @ one point, using the character-mode/DOS prompt/tty console model set into HIGH CPU PRIORITY &amp; the whole 9 yards.
It actually acted as a "decent gauge" of processing power I felt, because as I moved onto more powerful systems over time?
I definitely saw speed increases, confirming my purchases on being superior on this type of processing @ least, no less!
(Another nice thing was that SETI sent my name on some plaque in some exploration satellite off to some other distant place in the cosmos - I thought that was pretty cool also!)...
apk
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476780</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268576220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've got a better idea.  Why don't we take the money we've been spending on SETI, and put it toward a research program that produces some information occasionally.<br><br>I'm not asking for information with proven immediate practical value.  Pure research can prove to be valuable later, in unanticipated ways.  I understand that.  But that's assuming that there's actual *research* going on.<br><br>Scientific research is constructed so that you find out *something*, even if it isn't what you'd hoped the answer would be.  That's the scientific method.  Even if your experiment fails, you *learn* something from it.  SETI, however, is not set up that way.  SETI is designed up to keep on promising, year after year, decade after decade, that maybe *next* year we'll find [the desired answer -- and there is only one result SETI is interested in finding].  No premise is tested and proven, disproven, or revised.  Ever.<br><br>Calling SETI science is intellectually dishonest.  SETI is politics, and a boondoggle.<br><br>(Granted, it's not a very BIG boondoggle, because it's not all that MUCH money.  But every penny of the money spent on it is wasted.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got a better idea .
Why do n't we take the money we 've been spending on SETI , and put it toward a research program that produces some information occasionally.I 'm not asking for information with proven immediate practical value .
Pure research can prove to be valuable later , in unanticipated ways .
I understand that .
But that 's assuming that there 's actual * research * going on.Scientific research is constructed so that you find out * something * , even if it is n't what you 'd hoped the answer would be .
That 's the scientific method .
Even if your experiment fails , you * learn * something from it .
SETI , however , is not set up that way .
SETI is designed up to keep on promising , year after year , decade after decade , that maybe * next * year we 'll find [ the desired answer -- and there is only one result SETI is interested in finding ] .
No premise is tested and proven , disproven , or revised .
Ever.Calling SETI science is intellectually dishonest .
SETI is politics , and a boondoggle .
( Granted , it 's not a very BIG boondoggle , because it 's not all that MUCH money .
But every penny of the money spent on it is wasted .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got a better idea.
Why don't we take the money we've been spending on SETI, and put it toward a research program that produces some information occasionally.I'm not asking for information with proven immediate practical value.
Pure research can prove to be valuable later, in unanticipated ways.
I understand that.
But that's assuming that there's actual *research* going on.Scientific research is constructed so that you find out *something*, even if it isn't what you'd hoped the answer would be.
That's the scientific method.
Even if your experiment fails, you *learn* something from it.
SETI, however, is not set up that way.
SETI is designed up to keep on promising, year after year, decade after decade, that maybe *next* year we'll find [the desired answer -- and there is only one result SETI is interested in finding].
No premise is tested and proven, disproven, or revised.
Ever.Calling SETI science is intellectually dishonest.
SETI is politics, and a boondoggle.
(Granted, it's not a very BIG boondoggle, because it's not all that MUCH money.
But every penny of the money spent on it is wasted.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481050</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268663280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?</p></div></blockquote><p>It comes from the same place that the idea of the malevolent alien comes from.  The human psyche... or more precisely it comes from humans anthropomorphizing something that's not only non-human, but completely alien (and more to the point, unknown).  It makes completely unwarranted assumptions about the motivations of alien life, and even something as reasonable as "competition over resources" turns into humor when it is looked at with a bit of detachment and taken to an extreme:  an interstellar bypass constructed by the Vogon fleet.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ? It comes from the same place that the idea of the malevolent alien comes from .
The human psyche... or more precisely it comes from humans anthropomorphizing something that 's not only non-human , but completely alien ( and more to the point , unknown ) .
It makes completely unwarranted assumptions about the motivations of alien life , and even something as reasonable as " competition over resources " turns into humor when it is looked at with a bit of detachment and taken to an extreme : an interstellar bypass constructed by the Vogon fleet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?It comes from the same place that the idea of the malevolent alien comes from.
The human psyche... or more precisely it comes from humans anthropomorphizing something that's not only non-human, but completely alien (and more to the point, unknown).
It makes completely unwarranted assumptions about the motivations of alien life, and even something as reasonable as "competition over resources" turns into humor when it is looked at with a bit of detachment and taken to an extreme:  an interstellar bypass constructed by the Vogon fleet.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477648</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1268583060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from? There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources. Among civilizations, it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization. We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.</p></div><p>Right. On Earth.</p><p>We base all our assumptions on what we know about 1) Humans and 2) Earth.</p><p>As soon as you go into space, that all changes. Or maybe it doesn't. But assuming it doesn't is a flawed way of going about it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources .
Among civilizations , it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization .
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.Right .
On Earth.We base all our assumptions on what we know about 1 ) Humans and 2 ) Earth.As soon as you go into space , that all changes .
Or maybe it does n't .
But assuming it does n't is a flawed way of going about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources.
Among civilizations, it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization.
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.Right.
On Earth.We base all our assumptions on what we know about 1) Humans and 2) Earth.As soon as you go into space, that all changes.
Or maybe it doesn't.
But assuming it doesn't is a flawed way of going about it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480776</id>
	<title>New movie about this</title>
	<author>Cloud K</author>
	<datestamp>1268661480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this b3ta entry applies pretty well here<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) (not my work, just happened across it) <a href="http://www.b3ta.com/board/9956971" title="b3ta.com">http://www.b3ta.com/board/9956971</a> [b3ta.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this b3ta entry applies pretty well here : ) ( not my work , just happened across it ) http : //www.b3ta.com/board/9956971 [ b3ta.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this b3ta entry applies pretty well here :) (not my work, just happened across it) http://www.b3ta.com/board/9956971 [b3ta.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477816</id>
	<title>Re:Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1268584620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty<br>&gt; pointless, and remote civilizations will never contact each other.</p><p>You assume they are short lived and impatient.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty &gt; pointless , and remote civilizations will never contact each other.You assume they are short lived and impatient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty&gt; pointless, and remote civilizations will never contact each other.You assume they are short lived and impatient.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476428</id>
	<title>So?</title>
	<author>mingbrasil</author>
	<datestamp>1268574000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If we can't even find Osama bin Laden, why do you think SETI would be able to lead us to ET?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we ca n't even find Osama bin Laden , why do you think SETI would be able to lead us to ET ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we can't even find Osama bin Laden, why do you think SETI would be able to lead us to ET?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480900</id>
	<title>SETI/Intelligent Design</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1268662320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>SETI and Intelligent Design are based on the same principle, that certain patterns of signal are signs of intelligence. The only difference is the media they are looking at signal in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>SETI and Intelligent Design are based on the same principle , that certain patterns of signal are signs of intelligence .
The only difference is the media they are looking at signal in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SETI and Intelligent Design are based on the same principle, that certain patterns of signal are signs of intelligence.
The only difference is the media they are looking at signal in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477006</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268577660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>They'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does.</i></p><p>No, SETI is looking for intentional beacons, not accidental leakage.</p><p>In your terms, our SETI-style space-time bubble is a very very very thin shell from the one (or was it two?) times we actually beamed out a signal.  Actually not a shell, because it was directional.  Interestingly the small handful of candidate signals fit this pattern.</p><p>Personally, I think until we're unafraid enough to light up a real beacon, any more advanced society won't pay us any attention.  We're panicky and prone to irrational behavior, which probably makes us uninteresting peers.  It seems none of us will live long enough to see humanity get over itself, though perhaps we can push it a bit in that direction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does.No , SETI is looking for intentional beacons , not accidental leakage.In your terms , our SETI-style space-time bubble is a very very very thin shell from the one ( or was it two ?
) times we actually beamed out a signal .
Actually not a shell , because it was directional .
Interestingly the small handful of candidate signals fit this pattern.Personally , I think until we 're unafraid enough to light up a real beacon , any more advanced society wo n't pay us any attention .
We 're panicky and prone to irrational behavior , which probably makes us uninteresting peers .
It seems none of us will live long enough to see humanity get over itself , though perhaps we can push it a bit in that direction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does.No, SETI is looking for intentional beacons, not accidental leakage.In your terms, our SETI-style space-time bubble is a very very very thin shell from the one (or was it two?
) times we actually beamed out a signal.
Actually not a shell, because it was directional.
Interestingly the small handful of candidate signals fit this pattern.Personally, I think until we're unafraid enough to light up a real beacon, any more advanced society won't pay us any attention.
We're panicky and prone to irrational behavior, which probably makes us uninteresting peers.
It seems none of us will live long enough to see humanity get over itself, though perhaps we can push it a bit in that direction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476420</id>
	<title>still looking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am 58 years old and still looking for signs of intelligent terrestrial  life.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am 58 years old and still looking for signs of intelligent terrestrial life.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am 58 years old and still looking for signs of intelligent terrestrial  life.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477742</id>
	<title>simple solution</title>
	<author>commodoresloat</author>
	<datestamp>1268583900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just download the aliens' public key and use PGP...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just download the aliens ' public key and use PGP.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just download the aliens' public key and use PGP...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>0xdeadbeef</author>
	<datestamp>1268574000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that)</i></p><p>Government spin? That's the primary purpose for which we should be looking.</p><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from? There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources. Among civilizations, it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization. We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>even just being afraid and try to " defend " ourselves from them ( sad , but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that ) Government spin ?
That 's the primary purpose for which we should be looking.Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources .
Among civilizations , it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization .
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that)Government spin?
That's the primary purpose for which we should be looking.Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources.
Among civilizations, it has always resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization.
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479076</id>
	<title>There's nothing out there...</title>
	<author>okmijnuhb</author>
	<datestamp>1268644320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We're all alone. <br>
It would be better for mankind to believe this, that way, he'll take better care of the planet and one another, and all species on earth, which should all be viewed as irreplaceable. <br>
It's time to scrap the deluded notion that we can destroy earth's habitability, and move to another place with all our cows, pigs, chickens,crops, etc.<br>
Get over it, and take care of Earth.<br>
Of course the folly of mankind and other species follows predictable patterns.<br>
We will slowly overpopulate, and destroy our ecosystem with toxins and radiation. <br>
I accept this as inevitable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're all alone .
It would be better for mankind to believe this , that way , he 'll take better care of the planet and one another , and all species on earth , which should all be viewed as irreplaceable .
It 's time to scrap the deluded notion that we can destroy earth 's habitability , and move to another place with all our cows , pigs , chickens,crops , etc .
Get over it , and take care of Earth .
Of course the folly of mankind and other species follows predictable patterns .
We will slowly overpopulate , and destroy our ecosystem with toxins and radiation .
I accept this as inevitable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're all alone.
It would be better for mankind to believe this, that way, he'll take better care of the planet and one another, and all species on earth, which should all be viewed as irreplaceable.
It's time to scrap the deluded notion that we can destroy earth's habitability, and move to another place with all our cows, pigs, chickens,crops, etc.
Get over it, and take care of Earth.
Of course the folly of mankind and other species follows predictable patterns.
We will slowly overpopulate, and destroy our ecosystem with toxins and radiation.
I accept this as inevitable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476788</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>afabbro</author>
	<datestamp>1268576220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think <b>your</b> expectations are too high.  Discovering that life exists elsewhere would change nothing.  If we discovered life close enough that we would <b>interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards</b>, then perhaps.  But the likeliest scenario is that we'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.</p><p>That is not going to change anything.</p><p>To take one admittedly flawed example - Marco Polo came back to 14th century Italy and told stories of an advanced civilization "far away" but close enough to reach out to.  Nothing changed.</p><p>At best, a SETI discovery will result in some ThinkGeek T-shirts of the signal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think your expectations are too high .
Discovering that life exists elsewhere would change nothing .
If we discovered life close enough that we would interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards , then perhaps .
But the likeliest scenario is that we 'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we 'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.That is not going to change anything.To take one admittedly flawed example - Marco Polo came back to 14th century Italy and told stories of an advanced civilization " far away " but close enough to reach out to .
Nothing changed.At best , a SETI discovery will result in some ThinkGeek T-shirts of the signal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think your expectations are too high.
Discovering that life exists elsewhere would change nothing.
If we discovered life close enough that we would interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards, then perhaps.
But the likeliest scenario is that we'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.That is not going to change anything.To take one admittedly flawed example - Marco Polo came back to 14th century Italy and told stories of an advanced civilization "far away" but close enough to reach out to.
Nothing changed.At best, a SETI discovery will result in some ThinkGeek T-shirts of the signal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476350</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SETI is a detector, not an emitter.</p><p>If you're worried about any possible aliens' intentions, then SETI is precisely the right approach. You'd want to know if something is coming our way, and get at least some idea of what it might be like.</p><p>It also seems unlikely we can affect our visibility much. On one hand, we're absolutely tiny compared to other things happening in the universe. Any amount of energy we could send into space for instance is a drop in the bucket compared to what the Sun outputs. Anything we emit is unlikely to be received unless somebody is already looking in our direction for some other, more visible reason. But, on the other hand, if somebody is really looking, and capable of getting here, they almost certainly can figure out there's something here, and there's no way we can become quiet enough to pretend there isn't.</p><p>At this point we can barely get off this rock. If anything shows up, they almost certainly vastly surpass us just from the fact that they can travel all the way here. So if there's anything to do about that the best plan would seem to be to try to figure out if anybody is coming, and if they are use that information to come up with a plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SETI is a detector , not an emitter.If you 're worried about any possible aliens ' intentions , then SETI is precisely the right approach .
You 'd want to know if something is coming our way , and get at least some idea of what it might be like.It also seems unlikely we can affect our visibility much .
On one hand , we 're absolutely tiny compared to other things happening in the universe .
Any amount of energy we could send into space for instance is a drop in the bucket compared to what the Sun outputs .
Anything we emit is unlikely to be received unless somebody is already looking in our direction for some other , more visible reason .
But , on the other hand , if somebody is really looking , and capable of getting here , they almost certainly can figure out there 's something here , and there 's no way we can become quiet enough to pretend there is n't.At this point we can barely get off this rock .
If anything shows up , they almost certainly vastly surpass us just from the fact that they can travel all the way here .
So if there 's anything to do about that the best plan would seem to be to try to figure out if anybody is coming , and if they are use that information to come up with a plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SETI is a detector, not an emitter.If you're worried about any possible aliens' intentions, then SETI is precisely the right approach.
You'd want to know if something is coming our way, and get at least some idea of what it might be like.It also seems unlikely we can affect our visibility much.
On one hand, we're absolutely tiny compared to other things happening in the universe.
Any amount of energy we could send into space for instance is a drop in the bucket compared to what the Sun outputs.
Anything we emit is unlikely to be received unless somebody is already looking in our direction for some other, more visible reason.
But, on the other hand, if somebody is really looking, and capable of getting here, they almost certainly can figure out there's something here, and there's no way we can become quiet enough to pretend there isn't.At this point we can barely get off this rock.
If anything shows up, they almost certainly vastly surpass us just from the fact that they can travel all the way here.
So if there's anything to do about that the best plan would seem to be to try to figure out if anybody is coming, and if they are use that information to come up with a plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480734</id>
	<title>Ask them to...</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1268661240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask them to pull their heads out of their asses, and they might hear something out there. I had a friend that worked for them a long time ago, and when they fight so hard all the time to get people to accept them instead of focusing on the problems of how to get<br>on board one of those missions to send up their own satellite, and make progress, that is where they miss all the good opportunities to evolve into a better more efficient fact finding organization.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask them to pull their heads out of their asses , and they might hear something out there .
I had a friend that worked for them a long time ago , and when they fight so hard all the time to get people to accept them instead of focusing on the problems of how to geton board one of those missions to send up their own satellite , and make progress , that is where they miss all the good opportunities to evolve into a better more efficient fact finding organization .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask them to pull their heads out of their asses, and they might hear something out there.
I had a friend that worked for them a long time ago, and when they fight so hard all the time to get people to accept them instead of focusing on the problems of how to geton board one of those missions to send up their own satellite, and make progress, that is where they miss all the good opportunities to evolve into a better more efficient fact finding organization.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477868</id>
	<title>What does "finding" mean?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268585100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Currently, there is a tiny minority of people that are absolutely sure that aliens exist since they're convinced that they've seen UFOs. So some have already "found" alien life. Now, I assume that by "finding", you mean that a relatively credible scientific source were to claim to have detected signals from an alien life form. However, only a fraction of the population will even understand what is meant by signals, if they aren't shown a received Alien TV broadcast or something similar. Consequently, general acceptance will depend on the credibility of whoever is making the claim and their ability to defend it when some relatively credible sources are likely to refute it (unless it's absolutely clear). Would "finding" thus mean making over 50 \% of the earth's population convinced that there is alien life? Or would it mean that once it's good enough to be included in science books? Acknowledged by heads of state?</p><p>I'm rather sure that even if a signal that would convince most slashdotters was detected, the acceptance would happen slowly among the rest of the population. Perhaps like general acceptance that the earth isn't flat happened over time. And even if everyone on earth accepted that we're not alone in the universe, what would we do about it? Start some intergalactic arms race just in case they're hostile? Consider contacting them? Or just carry on with life as usual since when most people have considered it plausible before without seeing a need to undertake any "just in case" actions?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Currently , there is a tiny minority of people that are absolutely sure that aliens exist since they 're convinced that they 've seen UFOs .
So some have already " found " alien life .
Now , I assume that by " finding " , you mean that a relatively credible scientific source were to claim to have detected signals from an alien life form .
However , only a fraction of the population will even understand what is meant by signals , if they are n't shown a received Alien TV broadcast or something similar .
Consequently , general acceptance will depend on the credibility of whoever is making the claim and their ability to defend it when some relatively credible sources are likely to refute it ( unless it 's absolutely clear ) .
Would " finding " thus mean making over 50 \ % of the earth 's population convinced that there is alien life ?
Or would it mean that once it 's good enough to be included in science books ?
Acknowledged by heads of state ? I 'm rather sure that even if a signal that would convince most slashdotters was detected , the acceptance would happen slowly among the rest of the population .
Perhaps like general acceptance that the earth is n't flat happened over time .
And even if everyone on earth accepted that we 're not alone in the universe , what would we do about it ?
Start some intergalactic arms race just in case they 're hostile ?
Consider contacting them ?
Or just carry on with life as usual since when most people have considered it plausible before without seeing a need to undertake any " just in case " actions ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Currently, there is a tiny minority of people that are absolutely sure that aliens exist since they're convinced that they've seen UFOs.
So some have already "found" alien life.
Now, I assume that by "finding", you mean that a relatively credible scientific source were to claim to have detected signals from an alien life form.
However, only a fraction of the population will even understand what is meant by signals, if they aren't shown a received Alien TV broadcast or something similar.
Consequently, general acceptance will depend on the credibility of whoever is making the claim and their ability to defend it when some relatively credible sources are likely to refute it (unless it's absolutely clear).
Would "finding" thus mean making over 50 \% of the earth's population convinced that there is alien life?
Or would it mean that once it's good enough to be included in science books?
Acknowledged by heads of state?I'm rather sure that even if a signal that would convince most slashdotters was detected, the acceptance would happen slowly among the rest of the population.
Perhaps like general acceptance that the earth isn't flat happened over time.
And even if everyone on earth accepted that we're not alone in the universe, what would we do about it?
Start some intergalactic arms race just in case they're hostile?
Consider contacting them?
Or just carry on with life as usual since when most people have considered it plausible before without seeing a need to undertake any "just in case" actions?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31485108</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268681040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cant speak for Hindu's, Muslims, or other religions but the Bible doesn't say anything about life on other planets.  Since the lack of evidence should never be used as evidence in and of itself, i would say the there are no conflicts between the Bible and extraterrestrial life.  At the same time, i would say that there currently is no rational reason (aside from personal preference) to believe that they do exist either.  In the end, if evidence is found that they exist, there really isnt any scriptural reason to deny it.  Then again religious people, and non-religious people, tend to hold to their personally preferred beliefs with much vigor.  Even if they are irrational.  Thats just human nature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I cant speak for Hindu 's , Muslims , or other religions but the Bible does n't say anything about life on other planets .
Since the lack of evidence should never be used as evidence in and of itself , i would say the there are no conflicts between the Bible and extraterrestrial life .
At the same time , i would say that there currently is no rational reason ( aside from personal preference ) to believe that they do exist either .
In the end , if evidence is found that they exist , there really isnt any scriptural reason to deny it .
Then again religious people , and non-religious people , tend to hold to their personally preferred beliefs with much vigor .
Even if they are irrational .
Thats just human nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cant speak for Hindu's, Muslims, or other religions but the Bible doesn't say anything about life on other planets.
Since the lack of evidence should never be used as evidence in and of itself, i would say the there are no conflicts between the Bible and extraterrestrial life.
At the same time, i would say that there currently is no rational reason (aside from personal preference) to believe that they do exist either.
In the end, if evidence is found that they exist, there really isnt any scriptural reason to deny it.
Then again religious people, and non-religious people, tend to hold to their personally preferred beliefs with much vigor.
Even if they are irrational.
Thats just human nature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476146</id>
	<title>Too short a window</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We are in far too short a window in cosmic terms.  A million years here, a million years there, adds up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are in far too short a window in cosmic terms .
A million years here , a million years there , adds up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are in far too short a window in cosmic terms.
A million years here, a million years there, adds up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476228</id>
	<title>Do we really want to find them?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously? We can't handle the various cultures we live in relative close proximity too, do we really need to bring other races here to see the embarrassment we call Earth?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously ?
We ca n't handle the various cultures we live in relative close proximity too , do we really need to bring other races here to see the embarrassment we call Earth ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously?
We can't handle the various cultures we live in relative close proximity too, do we really need to bring other races here to see the embarrassment we call Earth?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476214</id>
	<title>Here I am!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You were looking in the wrong place. I've been here on slashdot!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You were looking in the wrong place .
I 've been here on slashdot !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You were looking in the wrong place.
I've been here on slashdot!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477424</id>
	<title>stupid stupid stupid</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1268580780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the concept behind this is too arrogant and in its ultimate consequence, stupid.</p><p>it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we did, and have the same values as we do. ie, think mathematic is universal, and try to communicate over mathematical patterns and regular expressions that repeat themselves. even if they do, it is still extremely naive to expect the radio waves to reach here without losing their precise nature, or getting garbled due to innumerable sources of interference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the concept behind this is too arrogant and in its ultimate consequence , stupid.it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we did , and have the same values as we do .
ie , think mathematic is universal , and try to communicate over mathematical patterns and regular expressions that repeat themselves .
even if they do , it is still extremely naive to expect the radio waves to reach here without losing their precise nature , or getting garbled due to innumerable sources of interference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the concept behind this is too arrogant and in its ultimate consequence, stupid.it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we did, and have the same values as we do.
ie, think mathematic is universal, and try to communicate over mathematical patterns and regular expressions that repeat themselves.
even if they do, it is still extremely naive to expect the radio waves to reach here without losing their precise nature, or getting garbled due to innumerable sources of interference.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478230</id>
	<title>The Atomic beacon</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1268588640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our weapon of war is undoubtedly a beacon of intelligence. Sounds ironic, I know. But when you think about it, detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum. It also gives off a unique signature of the kind that doesn't, or could *never* happen naturally. It really takes a civilization to make and concentrate plutonium into a bomb.</p><p>Forget TV or radio transmissions. The true universe of intelligent language is THE BOMB! It all started with Trinity on July 16, 1945.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our weapon of war is undoubtedly a beacon of intelligence .
Sounds ironic , I know .
But when you think about it , detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum .
It also gives off a unique signature of the kind that does n't , or could * never * happen naturally .
It really takes a civilization to make and concentrate plutonium into a bomb.Forget TV or radio transmissions .
The true universe of intelligent language is THE BOMB !
It all started with Trinity on July 16 , 1945 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our weapon of war is undoubtedly a beacon of intelligence.
Sounds ironic, I know.
But when you think about it, detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum.
It also gives off a unique signature of the kind that doesn't, or could *never* happen naturally.
It really takes a civilization to make and concentrate plutonium into a bomb.Forget TV or radio transmissions.
The true universe of intelligent language is THE BOMB!
It all started with Trinity on July 16, 1945.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476398</id>
	<title>Re:Patience!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, I'm trying to find signs of intelligent life on the Earth, and I haven't been very successful either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I 'm trying to find signs of intelligent life on the Earth , and I have n't been very successful either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I'm trying to find signs of intelligent life on the Earth, and I haven't been very successful either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480342</id>
	<title>Missing word in the title :</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1268657580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>'yet'</htmltext>
<tokenext>'yet'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'yet'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</id>
	<title>The problem is time</title>
	<author>Todd Knarr</author>
	<datestamp>1268574240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem's basically one of time. Think about this: the first radio transmission on Earth was in 1866. That's 144 years ago. That means that any alien civilization more than 144 light-years away from Earth <i>can't see us</i> in the radio bands. They'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does. And that bubble isn't a sphere either, it'll eventually have an inside surface as well as an outer one. We're getting more and more efficient, wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions. Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance. Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either. That'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions. They won't have to just be looking for us, they'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they're in that zone. Look too early or too late and we're invisible to them.</p><p>And the same applies to us: we can look all we want, but if we're not in the radio-transmission zone for another species they'll be invisible to us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem 's basically one of time .
Think about this : the first radio transmission on Earth was in 1866 .
That 's 144 years ago .
That means that any alien civilization more than 144 light-years away from Earth ca n't see us in the radio bands .
They 'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does .
And that bubble is n't a sphere either , it 'll eventually have an inside surface as well as an outer one .
We 're getting more and more efficient , wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions .
Eventually we 'll be broadcasting so little that we wo n't be detectable at any reasonable distance .
Anybody inside that inner surface wo n't be able to see us either .
That 'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions .
They wo n't have to just be looking for us , they 'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they 're in that zone .
Look too early or too late and we 're invisible to them.And the same applies to us : we can look all we want , but if we 're not in the radio-transmission zone for another species they 'll be invisible to us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem's basically one of time.
Think about this: the first radio transmission on Earth was in 1866.
That's 144 years ago.
That means that any alien civilization more than 144 light-years away from Earth can't see us in the radio bands.
They'd have to be inside the bubble formed by our first radio transmissions to even have a chance of spotting us using the methods SETI does.
And that bubble isn't a sphere either, it'll eventually have an inside surface as well as an outer one.
We're getting more and more efficient, wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions.
Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance.
Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either.
That'll leave probably a 250-300 light-year thick zone moving steadily outwards that any race looking for us will have to be in to see us by looking for radio transmissions.
They won't have to just be looking for us, they'll have to be looking for us during the 3-century period when they're in that zone.
Look too early or too late and we're invisible to them.And the same applies to us: we can look all we want, but if we're not in the radio-transmission zone for another species they'll be invisible to us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476314</id>
	<title>Maybe...</title>
	<author>hargrand</author>
	<datestamp>1268573280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we listen in vain?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... we listen in vain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... we listen in vain?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481518</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>cpghost</author>
	<datestamp>1268666040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Did anyone think that, maybe, most hypothetical alien signals might encrypted?</p></div></blockquote><p>

Obviously, aliens' DRM is a lot more advanced than ours: even their signal is perfectly hidden from us humans who are too cheap to buy their premium licenses in the iAlienTV online shop on Alpha Centauri. They can't let us watch their programs for free and steal their commercials, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did anyone think that , maybe , most hypothetical alien signals might encrypted ?
Obviously , aliens ' DRM is a lot more advanced than ours : even their signal is perfectly hidden from us humans who are too cheap to buy their premium licenses in the iAlienTV online shop on Alpha Centauri .
They ca n't let us watch their programs for free and steal their commercials , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did anyone think that, maybe, most hypothetical alien signals might encrypted?
Obviously, aliens' DRM is a lot more advanced than ours: even their signal is perfectly hidden from us humans who are too cheap to buy their premium licenses in the iAlienTV online shop on Alpha Centauri.
They can't let us watch their programs for free and steal their commercials, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481916</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268667900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It would look random, but random noise originating from a single source would be as suspicious as an patterned signal from a single source.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would look random , but random noise originating from a single source would be as suspicious as an patterned signal from a single source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would look random, but random noise originating from a single source would be as suspicious as an patterned signal from a single source.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482726</id>
	<title>I would have been suprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268671680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would be surprised if they had found anything.  I highly doubt any species communicating across the interstellar expanse is still using radio waves.  How were we communicating only 200 Years ago?  Pony express? Steam Ship? Smoke signals?  Why must a civilization likely hundreds or thousands (let alone millions) of years ahead of us technologically use radio waves?  In my opinion our only real hope would be finding a society at a similar level of development (If you want a clue as to how likely this is imagine a 100Ly radius circle inside of a 50,000Ly circle, yeah) or an advanced society looking to contact a relatively new member to the "we don't live in mud huts and wooden shacks anymore" club (how much effort do we put into communicating with woodland animals).  I'm not saying we should stop, I think SETI could use more funds, but we just need to understand that our chances are about equal to winning the lottery, it'll happen eventually if we keep playing, but it might take a loooonnnnnngggg time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would be surprised if they had found anything .
I highly doubt any species communicating across the interstellar expanse is still using radio waves .
How were we communicating only 200 Years ago ?
Pony express ?
Steam Ship ?
Smoke signals ?
Why must a civilization likely hundreds or thousands ( let alone millions ) of years ahead of us technologically use radio waves ?
In my opinion our only real hope would be finding a society at a similar level of development ( If you want a clue as to how likely this is imagine a 100Ly radius circle inside of a 50,000Ly circle , yeah ) or an advanced society looking to contact a relatively new member to the " we do n't live in mud huts and wooden shacks anymore " club ( how much effort do we put into communicating with woodland animals ) .
I 'm not saying we should stop , I think SETI could use more funds , but we just need to understand that our chances are about equal to winning the lottery , it 'll happen eventually if we keep playing , but it might take a loooonnnnnngggg time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would be surprised if they had found anything.
I highly doubt any species communicating across the interstellar expanse is still using radio waves.
How were we communicating only 200 Years ago?
Pony express?
Steam Ship?
Smoke signals?
Why must a civilization likely hundreds or thousands (let alone millions) of years ahead of us technologically use radio waves?
In my opinion our only real hope would be finding a society at a similar level of development (If you want a clue as to how likely this is imagine a 100Ly radius circle inside of a 50,000Ly circle, yeah) or an advanced society looking to contact a relatively new member to the "we don't live in mud huts and wooden shacks anymore" club (how much effort do we put into communicating with woodland animals).
I'm not saying we should stop, I think SETI could use more funds, but we just need to understand that our chances are about equal to winning the lottery, it'll happen eventually if we keep playing, but it might take a loooonnnnnngggg time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478084</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>thePig</author>
	<datestamp>1268586720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By the same logic, even if you give them say 500 more years, we should not expect them to find anything since  500 out of 13.75 billion years is again nothing.<br>I am all for science, and even approve of SETI. But I am not sure whether this is the correct argument for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By the same logic , even if you give them say 500 more years , we should not expect them to find anything since 500 out of 13.75 billion years is again nothing.I am all for science , and even approve of SETI .
But I am not sure whether this is the correct argument for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By the same logic, even if you give them say 500 more years, we should not expect them to find anything since  500 out of 13.75 billion years is again nothing.I am all for science, and even approve of SETI.
But I am not sure whether this is the correct argument for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477796</id>
	<title>SETI is a waste of time, looking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268584440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>outside our world means we have given up on our world. Just enjoy your life, as technology is accelerating and soon we will move too fast and become a Black Hole which, by the way, are other civilizations enjoying the orgasm of technology and ending. The universe does not allow systems so knowledgeable that they can traverse space. A society powerful enough to travel would know all answers to everything instantly and that is its death knell. Its the Fermi paradox sorta. So looking for life is a belief system that is irrelevant like trying to beat our own lives. Might as well enjoy life, try to save the coral reefs.......</htmltext>
<tokenext>outside our world means we have given up on our world .
Just enjoy your life , as technology is accelerating and soon we will move too fast and become a Black Hole which , by the way , are other civilizations enjoying the orgasm of technology and ending .
The universe does not allow systems so knowledgeable that they can traverse space .
A society powerful enough to travel would know all answers to everything instantly and that is its death knell .
Its the Fermi paradox sorta .
So looking for life is a belief system that is irrelevant like trying to beat our own lives .
Might as well enjoy life , try to save the coral reefs...... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>outside our world means we have given up on our world.
Just enjoy your life, as technology is accelerating and soon we will move too fast and become a Black Hole which, by the way, are other civilizations enjoying the orgasm of technology and ending.
The universe does not allow systems so knowledgeable that they can traverse space.
A society powerful enough to travel would know all answers to everything instantly and that is its death knell.
Its the Fermi paradox sorta.
So looking for life is a belief system that is irrelevant like trying to beat our own lives.
Might as well enjoy life, try to save the coral reefs.......</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476946</id>
	<title>Re:We are the only ones</title>
	<author>jonadab</author>
	<datestamp>1268577240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; We are the First Ones.<br><br>No, actually, we're the Last Ones Standing.<br><br>See, humanity was the first race to develop time travel, in the late thirty-seventh century by your calendar, during the Third Great Intergalactic War.  We knew that if we didn't act it was only a matter of time before one of the other races would develop or get ahold of the technology and use it against us.  So we went ahead and sterilized the other races' homeworlds in the distant past, before they developed any significant technology.  War over.  We win.<br><br>Once the word of what we'd done started getting out to the civilians, there was hell to pay, of course.  But as far as I'm concerned there's no question.  I don't have to worry that my grandkids will be wiped out because a Xenthasi Accelerator generates a supernova and wipes out their home star system, or that some Rtulmrachan Overlord will drop a galaxy-sized black hole in their immediate neighborhood, or that the Uiola will tear down our whole local group and re-use the matter to build the Largest Entertainment Mall in the Universe.  We won.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; We are the First Ones.No , actually , we 're the Last Ones Standing.See , humanity was the first race to develop time travel , in the late thirty-seventh century by your calendar , during the Third Great Intergalactic War .
We knew that if we did n't act it was only a matter of time before one of the other races would develop or get ahold of the technology and use it against us .
So we went ahead and sterilized the other races ' homeworlds in the distant past , before they developed any significant technology .
War over .
We win.Once the word of what we 'd done started getting out to the civilians , there was hell to pay , of course .
But as far as I 'm concerned there 's no question .
I do n't have to worry that my grandkids will be wiped out because a Xenthasi Accelerator generates a supernova and wipes out their home star system , or that some Rtulmrachan Overlord will drop a galaxy-sized black hole in their immediate neighborhood , or that the Uiola will tear down our whole local group and re-use the matter to build the Largest Entertainment Mall in the Universe .
We won .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; We are the First Ones.No, actually, we're the Last Ones Standing.See, humanity was the first race to develop time travel, in the late thirty-seventh century by your calendar, during the Third Great Intergalactic War.
We knew that if we didn't act it was only a matter of time before one of the other races would develop or get ahold of the technology and use it against us.
So we went ahead and sterilized the other races' homeworlds in the distant past, before they developed any significant technology.
War over.
We win.Once the word of what we'd done started getting out to the civilians, there was hell to pay, of course.
But as far as I'm concerned there's no question.
I don't have to worry that my grandkids will be wiped out because a Xenthasi Accelerator generates a supernova and wipes out their home star system, or that some Rtulmrachan Overlord will drop a galaxy-sized black hole in their immediate neighborhood, or that the Uiola will tear down our whole local group and re-use the matter to build the Largest Entertainment Mall in the Universe.
We won.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477182</id>
	<title>Re:Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>Eravnrekaree</author>
	<datestamp>1268578860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There may be a civilisation out there that is creating an intentional high powered signal, but maybe not, for the same reasons we do not. That is, we are too afraid that we might open the pandoras box. There might be civilisations out there that, for instance, have global warming and other environmental problems, and knowing of another planet somewhere could inspire them to hostally take that planet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There may be a civilisation out there that is creating an intentional high powered signal , but maybe not , for the same reasons we do not .
That is , we are too afraid that we might open the pandoras box .
There might be civilisations out there that , for instance , have global warming and other environmental problems , and knowing of another planet somewhere could inspire them to hostally take that planet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There may be a civilisation out there that is creating an intentional high powered signal, but maybe not, for the same reasons we do not.
That is, we are too afraid that we might open the pandoras box.
There might be civilisations out there that, for instance, have global warming and other environmental problems, and knowing of another planet somewhere could inspire them to hostally take that planet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482108</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>muckracer</author>
	<datestamp>1268668740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; If we discovered life close enough that we would interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards, then perhaps. But the likeliest scenario is that we'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.</p><p>Why does it have to be postcard-style back-and-forth communication with, as you seem to imply, little actual content? It could be a continuous stream which, after the first initial contact/delay, would provide more than enough material and information to work with...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; If we discovered life close enough that we would interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards , then perhaps .
But the likeliest scenario is that we 'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we 'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.Why does it have to be postcard-style back-and-forth communication with , as you seem to imply , little actual content ?
It could be a continuous stream which , after the first initial contact/delay , would provide more than enough material and information to work with.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; If we discovered life close enough that we would interact with it beyond sending multi-year radio postcards, then perhaps.
But the likeliest scenario is that we'll pick up some stray signals from a civilization so far away that at best we'll be able to send messages and hope our children can read their responses.Why does it have to be postcard-style back-and-forth communication with, as you seem to imply, little actual content?
It could be a continuous stream which, after the first initial contact/delay, would provide more than enough material and information to work with...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476788</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480624</id>
	<title>Re:The Atomic beacon</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1268660460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; But when you think about it, detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a<br>&gt; tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum. It also gives off a<br>&gt; unique signature of the kind that doesn't, or could *never* happen naturally.</p><p>No, not really.  The "bomb" is pretty feeble by cosmic standards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; But when you think about it , detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a &gt; tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum .
It also gives off a &gt; unique signature of the kind that does n't , or could * never * happen naturally.No , not really .
The " bomb " is pretty feeble by cosmic standards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; But when you think about it, detonating vast amounts of plutonium releases a&gt; tremendous amount of energy all over the EM spectrum.
It also gives off a&gt; unique signature of the kind that doesn't, or could *never* happen naturally.No, not really.
The "bomb" is pretty feeble by cosmic standards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476588</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268575020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Maybe they don't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet, and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet?</p></div><p>We have had Korean homestay students who do exactly this and couldn't seem to fathom what was wrong with storing your shit and paper in a box.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they do n't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet , and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet ? We have had Korean homestay students who do exactly this and could n't seem to fathom what was wrong with storing your shit and paper in a box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they don't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet, and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet?We have had Korean homestay students who do exactly this and couldn't seem to fathom what was wrong with storing your shit and paper in a box.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476424</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand your ratio. I can detect the existence of stars even if I look just 1 second out of 13.7 billion years. Why not aliens?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand your ratio .
I can detect the existence of stars even if I look just 1 second out of 13.7 billion years .
Why not aliens ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand your ratio.
I can detect the existence of stars even if I look just 1 second out of 13.7 billion years.
Why not aliens?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476410</id>
	<title>they are doing it wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>do you really think that et will use radio waves to contact one planet to another no they will use something called quantum physics to communicate to each other instantly instead of years what i think we should do is to wait for the technology to come out and create a telescope using that technology</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>do you really think that et will use radio waves to contact one planet to another no they will use something called quantum physics to communicate to each other instantly instead of years what i think we should do is to wait for the technology to come out and create a telescope using that technology</tokentext>
<sentencetext>do you really think that et will use radio waves to contact one planet to another no they will use something called quantum physics to communicate to each other instantly instead of years what i think we should do is to wait for the technology to come out and create a telescope using that technology</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478308</id>
	<title>Re:The aliens aren't using radio...</title>
	<author>Lloyd\_Bryant</author>
	<datestamp>1268589660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They're using subspace communications, or ansible, or ultrawave.</p><p>or semaphore...</p></div><p>Not entirely sure why this was modded "Funny" - it's a very valid point.  Just because electromagnetic radiation is the best tool we have for long-range communications does not mean that other, more advanced civilizations aren't using something that we don't even know how to detect (Gravity wave telegraphy?  Quantum entanglement semaphores?).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're using subspace communications , or ansible , or ultrawave.or semaphore...Not entirely sure why this was modded " Funny " - it 's a very valid point .
Just because electromagnetic radiation is the best tool we have for long-range communications does not mean that other , more advanced civilizations are n't using something that we do n't even know how to detect ( Gravity wave telegraphy ?
Quantum entanglement semaphores ?
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're using subspace communications, or ansible, or ultrawave.or semaphore...Not entirely sure why this was modded "Funny" - it's a very valid point.
Just because electromagnetic radiation is the best tool we have for long-range communications does not mean that other, more advanced civilizations aren't using something that we don't even know how to detect (Gravity wave telegraphy?
Quantum entanglement semaphores?
).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478908</id>
	<title>Success!</title>
	<author>dazlari</author>
	<datestamp>1268685660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I, for one, welcome our undetectable, non-communicative, overlords.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I , for one , welcome our undetectable , non-communicative , overlords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, for one, welcome our undetectable, non-communicative, overlords.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479844</id>
	<title>What did SETI expect?</title>
	<author>Niubi</author>
	<datestamp>1268652360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If Aliens do exist, they've probably got some uber technology that lets them hide. Isn't there meant to be some kind of mountain where they live in the NW of the US? They'd have better luck with DubLi, really.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Aliens do exist , they 've probably got some uber technology that lets them hide .
Is n't there meant to be some kind of mountain where they live in the NW of the US ?
They 'd have better luck with DubLi , really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Aliens do exist, they've probably got some uber technology that lets them hide.
Isn't there meant to be some kind of mountain where they live in the NW of the US?
They'd have better luck with DubLi, really.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476674</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>vadim\_t</author>
	<datestamp>1268575560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from? There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources. Among civilizations, it has always<br>resulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization. We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.</p></div></blockquote><p>I think that if anything can show up here and say hi they probably don't need anything from us. Unless they come from Proxima Centauri they can probably find whatever they need much closer, and sending anything from here back wherever they came from is probably mind boggingly expensive in energy expenditures.</p><p>For instance take the lack of interest in mining asteroids or the moon. We probably could if we had a good reason to, but it's so expensive it's not worth it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources .
Among civilizations , it has alwaysresulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization .
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.I think that if anything can show up here and say hi they probably do n't need anything from us .
Unless they come from Proxima Centauri they can probably find whatever they need much closer , and sending anything from here back wherever they came from is probably mind boggingly expensive in energy expenditures.For instance take the lack of interest in mining asteroids or the moon .
We probably could if we had a good reason to , but it 's so expensive it 's not worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources.
Among civilizations, it has alwaysresulted in destruction or subjugation of the less technologically advanced civilization.
We need to be keeping our ears open and our mouths shut.I think that if anything can show up here and say hi they probably don't need anything from us.
Unless they come from Proxima Centauri they can probably find whatever they need much closer, and sending anything from here back wherever they came from is probably mind boggingly expensive in energy expenditures.For instance take the lack of interest in mining asteroids or the moon.
We probably could if we had a good reason to, but it's so expensive it's not worth it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31485436</id>
	<title>Re:Of course</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1268682300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reminds me of the old Greg Egan novel "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine\_(novel)" title="wikipedia.org">Quarantine</a> [wikipedia.org]," where the rest of the universe gets so tired of us poking around observing them and spamming them with garbage transmissions that they put a giant curtain around our entire solar system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reminds me of the old Greg Egan novel " Quarantine [ wikipedia.org ] , " where the rest of the universe gets so tired of us poking around observing them and spamming them with garbage transmissions that they put a giant curtain around our entire solar system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reminds me of the old Greg Egan novel "Quarantine [wikipedia.org]," where the rest of the universe gets so tired of us poking around observing them and spamming them with garbage transmissions that they put a giant curtain around our entire solar system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478384</id>
	<title>We've already found them...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268590920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The odds against SETI finding anything are (sorry!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)) astronomical. If the aliens are even 0.01\% of the universe's age younger than us, then they're still in their trees and completely undetectable. If the aliens are even 0.01\% of the universe's age older than us, then our entire observable universe is running as a screensaver on one of their computers, and the general consensus of humanity (though not, I note, of the average slashdot reader) is that we're been praying to them, in one form or another, for at least the past 5000 years. Finding aliens who's development is aligned to ours within even a million years would be like dropping lawn darts at two random points on the surface of the Earth, and discovering that they'd hit each other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The odds against SETI finding anything are ( sorry !
: ) ) astronomical .
If the aliens are even 0.01 \ % of the universe 's age younger than us , then they 're still in their trees and completely undetectable .
If the aliens are even 0.01 \ % of the universe 's age older than us , then our entire observable universe is running as a screensaver on one of their computers , and the general consensus of humanity ( though not , I note , of the average slashdot reader ) is that we 're been praying to them , in one form or another , for at least the past 5000 years .
Finding aliens who 's development is aligned to ours within even a million years would be like dropping lawn darts at two random points on the surface of the Earth , and discovering that they 'd hit each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The odds against SETI finding anything are (sorry!
:)) astronomical.
If the aliens are even 0.01\% of the universe's age younger than us, then they're still in their trees and completely undetectable.
If the aliens are even 0.01\% of the universe's age older than us, then our entire observable universe is running as a screensaver on one of their computers, and the general consensus of humanity (though not, I note, of the average slashdot reader) is that we're been praying to them, in one form or another, for at least the past 5000 years.
Finding aliens who's development is aligned to ours within even a million years would be like dropping lawn darts at two random points on the surface of the Earth, and discovering that they'd hit each other.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478542</id>
	<title>But Pandora had no Radio...</title>
	<author>freedom\_india</author>
	<datestamp>1268593380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and yet they somehow magically discovered it has intelligent Life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and yet they somehow magically discovered it has intelligent Life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and yet they somehow magically discovered it has intelligent Life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481212</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268664120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, because finding intelligent life on other continants totally united all of europ together as they set aside their petty differences to enter the larger world... nevermind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because finding intelligent life on other continants totally united all of europ together as they set aside their petty differences to enter the larger world... nevermind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because finding intelligent life on other continants totally united all of europ together as they set aside their petty differences to enter the larger world... nevermind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477072</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1268578020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point. The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization. Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).</i></p><p>Yeah! Like... uh... I can't think of anything.</p><p>You know what? I think one of the most accurate alien contact movies is District 9, in which contact with aliens changed... well, basically nothing at all.</p><p>(Also: what religions are incompatible with alien life? Out of curiosity? Islam perhaps?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point .
The mere \ _finding \ _ of an ET would be \ _dramatic \ _ for our civilization .
Think of all the things that would change ( not all religious ) .Yeah !
Like... uh... I ca n't think of anything.You know what ?
I think one of the most accurate alien contact movies is District 9 , in which contact with aliens changed... well , basically nothing at all .
( Also : what religions are incompatible with alien life ?
Out of curiosity ?
Islam perhaps ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point.
The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.
Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).Yeah!
Like... uh... I can't think of anything.You know what?
I think one of the most accurate alien contact movies is District 9, in which contact with aliens changed... well, basically nothing at all.
(Also: what religions are incompatible with alien life?
Out of curiosity?
Islam perhaps?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476282</id>
	<title>Of course</title>
	<author>Midnight Thunder</author>
	<datestamp>1268572980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks like ET's spam filter is working just fine<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like ET 's spam filter is working just fine ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like ET's spam filter is working just fine ;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480678</id>
	<title>THEY ARE LOOKING IN THE WRONG PLACES!!!</title>
	<author>Terminus32</author>
	<datestamp>1268660880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"<i>To search expectantly for a radio signal from an extraterrestrial source is probably as culture bound a presumption as to search the galaxy for a good Italian restaurant.</i>" - Terence McKenna

"<i>I once visited the world's largest radio telescope in Araceibo, Puerto Rico, and they search for extra- terrestrial life with this thing. It's so large a telescope it's basically a dish suspended in round valley. And underneath the dish there's pasture land, and white cattle, and Stropharia cubensis... It's like this amazing image of this instrument studying the centre of NGC-3622?, and yet a hundred feet from the main control booth is probably what they're looking for.</i>" - Terence McKenna</htmltext>
<tokenext>" To search expectantly for a radio signal from an extraterrestrial source is probably as culture bound a presumption as to search the galaxy for a good Italian restaurant .
" - Terence McKenna " I once visited the world 's largest radio telescope in Araceibo , Puerto Rico , and they search for extra- terrestrial life with this thing .
It 's so large a telescope it 's basically a dish suspended in round valley .
And underneath the dish there 's pasture land , and white cattle , and Stropharia cubensis... It 's like this amazing image of this instrument studying the centre of NGC-3622 ? , and yet a hundred feet from the main control booth is probably what they 're looking for .
" - Terence McKenna</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"To search expectantly for a radio signal from an extraterrestrial source is probably as culture bound a presumption as to search the galaxy for a good Italian restaurant.
" - Terence McKenna

"I once visited the world's largest radio telescope in Araceibo, Puerto Rico, and they search for extra- terrestrial life with this thing.
It's so large a telescope it's basically a dish suspended in round valley.
And underneath the dish there's pasture land, and white cattle, and Stropharia cubensis... It's like this amazing image of this instrument studying the centre of NGC-3622?, and yet a hundred feet from the main control booth is probably what they're looking for.
" - Terence McKenna</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476714</id>
	<title>Re:Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>HBoar</author>
	<datestamp>1268575800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?</p></div><p>As I understand it, an impossibly large one.  And it still wouldn't work. It just gets lost to the background noise of the universe at any real distance...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So how big of an antenna would it take for , lets say , a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet ? As I understand it , an impossibly large one .
And it still would n't work .
It just gets lost to the background noise of the universe at any real distance.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?As I understand it, an impossibly large one.
And it still wouldn't work.
It just gets lost to the background noise of the universe at any real distance...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477096</id>
	<title>Re:Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>tftp</author>
	<datestamp>1268578260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>So how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?</i>
</p><p>
Other people already commented on the physics of RF. But that could be dealt with - by building antenna arrays in space, for example.
</p><p>
A far tougher problem is the propagation delay. You could one day receive first feeble AM broadcasts from a planet 500 light years away, and the next day people from that planet show up in their FTL ships.
</p><p>
A more practical approach, if your civilization is really interested in monitoring other star systems, is to seed the galaxy with self-replicating probes that position themselves within target systems and wait for activity. If anything happens, they report back through FTL channels. Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty pointless, and remote civilizations will never contact each other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So how big of an antenna would it take for , lets say , a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet ?
Other people already commented on the physics of RF .
But that could be dealt with - by building antenna arrays in space , for example .
A far tougher problem is the propagation delay .
You could one day receive first feeble AM broadcasts from a planet 500 light years away , and the next day people from that planet show up in their FTL ships .
A more practical approach , if your civilization is really interested in monitoring other star systems , is to seed the galaxy with self-replicating probes that position themselves within target systems and wait for activity .
If anything happens , they report back through FTL channels .
Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty pointless , and remote civilizations will never contact each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> So how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?
Other people already commented on the physics of RF.
But that could be dealt with - by building antenna arrays in space, for example.
A far tougher problem is the propagation delay.
You could one day receive first feeble AM broadcasts from a planet 500 light years away, and the next day people from that planet show up in their FTL ships.
A more practical approach, if your civilization is really interested in monitoring other star systems, is to seed the galaxy with self-replicating probes that position themselves within target systems and wait for activity.
If anything happens, they report back through FTL channels.
Of course if FTL is really impossible then the whole idea is pretty pointless, and remote civilizations will never contact each other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</id>
	<title>I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1268573040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point.  The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.  Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).</p><p>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.  I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?</p><p>Right now, we only worry about ourselves because, well, that's all there is to worry about.  The prospect of learning from another civilization, or even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that) could be utterly revolutionary.</p><p>Then again, so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point .
The mere \ _finding \ _ of an ET would be \ _dramatic \ _ for our civilization .
Think of all the things that would change ( not all religious ) .If we can ever \ _prove \ _ we 're not alone out here , I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments .
I mean , honestly , if we know there is another alien life out there , that we could potentially communicate with , how many stupid squabbles would end ? Right now , we only worry about ourselves because , well , that 's all there is to worry about .
The prospect of learning from another civilization , or even just being afraid and try to " defend " ourselves from them ( sad , but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that ) could be utterly revolutionary.Then again , so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point.
The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.
Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.
I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?Right now, we only worry about ourselves because, well, that's all there is to worry about.
The prospect of learning from another civilization, or even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that) could be utterly revolutionary.Then again, so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476406</id>
	<title>Maybe intelligent life is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps the existence of intelligent life is just not compatible with the laws of physics in this universe.</p><p>After all, after billions of years there still isn't any on this planet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the existence of intelligent life is just not compatible with the laws of physics in this universe.After all , after billions of years there still is n't any on this planet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the existence of intelligent life is just not compatible with the laws of physics in this universe.After all, after billions of years there still isn't any on this planet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476370</id>
	<title>Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>Eravnrekaree</author>
	<datestamp>1268573640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Question, what kind of antenna would we need to build in order to detect a TV or FM radio transmitter on another planet with similar strength and radiation pattern as common commercial radio TV and Radio transmitters on this planet, if they were located on the other planet. What about other common transmissions of ours as well?</p><p>I think at some point that SETI assumed that a ET civilisation would eb generating a signal stronger than we normally produce in day to day activities and pointing it at this solar system. It could be that there may be lots of civilisations out there but simply none are doing that. S</p><p>So how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Question , what kind of antenna would we need to build in order to detect a TV or FM radio transmitter on another planet with similar strength and radiation pattern as common commercial radio TV and Radio transmitters on this planet , if they were located on the other planet .
What about other common transmissions of ours as well ? I think at some point that SETI assumed that a ET civilisation would eb generating a signal stronger than we normally produce in day to day activities and pointing it at this solar system .
It could be that there may be lots of civilisations out there but simply none are doing that .
SSo how big of an antenna would it take for , lets say , a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Question, what kind of antenna would we need to build in order to detect a TV or FM radio transmitter on another planet with similar strength and radiation pattern as common commercial radio TV and Radio transmitters on this planet, if they were located on the other planet.
What about other common transmissions of ours as well?I think at some point that SETI assumed that a ET civilisation would eb generating a signal stronger than we normally produce in day to day activities and pointing it at this solar system.
It could be that there may be lots of civilisations out there but simply none are doing that.
SSo how big of an antenna would it take for, lets say, a civilisation on a remote solar system planet to detect the day to day RF activity on this planet?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479128</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>okmijnuhb</author>
	<datestamp>1268644860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How many stupid squabbles would end? <br>
None.<br>
How many stupid squabbles would begin? <br>
As many as there are space creatures. <br>
You think mankind will stop being stupid just because he's discovered life beyond planet Earth?<br>
Based on reality, I can make a long list of stupid mankind scenarios.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many stupid squabbles would end ?
None . How many stupid squabbles would begin ?
As many as there are space creatures .
You think mankind will stop being stupid just because he 's discovered life beyond planet Earth ?
Based on reality , I can make a long list of stupid mankind scenarios .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many stupid squabbles would end?
None.
How many stupid squabbles would begin?
As many as there are space creatures.
You think mankind will stop being stupid just because he's discovered life beyond planet Earth?
Based on reality, I can make a long list of stupid mankind scenarios.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478178</id>
	<title>Re:Differing levels of civilization</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268588100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, it's going to take a while...</p><p>Let's say, humans evolved to the equivalent of modern form and on average no smarter or dumber... Was roughly what? 40,000 years ago?<br>And we had fire not long after that, if not at the start... (Previous hominids aren't all that dumb either.)<br>Then about 10,000 years ago humans figured out that with those marks you used to make pretty pictures, you could also put ideas into more abstract symbols. Then that way a lot of information could be passed down or delivered to others without having to remember it all. That was a pretty big jump.<br>Another big one was somewhere around 5,000 years ago when humans figured out certain pretty or interesting rocks would melt if you put them in a fire that was hot enough. And that the resulting materials could be made into different things. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a really big deal.<br>Then somewhere around 1,000 to 500 years ago (depending on if you ask the Chinese or Europeans) printing was invented. So the availability of knowledge made a huge leap.<br>Then just a little over 100 years ago, we figured out electricity had some uses...<br>Somewhere just over 60 years ago... the first solid-state transistor...</p><p>And it's really not terribly much more than that 50 year window that SETI has been active in which we have actually been able to produce the electronics that could produce and detect the kind of signal SETI is looking for.</p><p>If other intelligent life is out there and comparable to us in ability (able to alter environment) and capability (friable metals and other chemical resources available), then that really gives a 50,000 year window give or take a few to be certain we're alone in the neighborhood. Provided they'd want to talk to us of course, they might even be ahead in the game. SETI has only spent 1/1000th of the observation time required to find a detectable signal as produced by modern humans since evolving into existance. Only loooong term thinking (generation spanning) will give the project a fair shake at working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , it 's going to take a while...Let 's say , humans evolved to the equivalent of modern form and on average no smarter or dumber... Was roughly what ?
40,000 years ago ? And we had fire not long after that , if not at the start... ( Previous hominids are n't all that dumb either .
) Then about 10,000 years ago humans figured out that with those marks you used to make pretty pictures , you could also put ideas into more abstract symbols .
Then that way a lot of information could be passed down or delivered to others without having to remember it all .
That was a pretty big jump.Another big one was somewhere around 5,000 years ago when humans figured out certain pretty or interesting rocks would melt if you put them in a fire that was hot enough .
And that the resulting materials could be made into different things .
It does n't seem like much , but it 's a really big deal.Then somewhere around 1,000 to 500 years ago ( depending on if you ask the Chinese or Europeans ) printing was invented .
So the availability of knowledge made a huge leap.Then just a little over 100 years ago , we figured out electricity had some uses...Somewhere just over 60 years ago... the first solid-state transistor...And it 's really not terribly much more than that 50 year window that SETI has been active in which we have actually been able to produce the electronics that could produce and detect the kind of signal SETI is looking for.If other intelligent life is out there and comparable to us in ability ( able to alter environment ) and capability ( friable metals and other chemical resources available ) , then that really gives a 50,000 year window give or take a few to be certain we 're alone in the neighborhood .
Provided they 'd want to talk to us of course , they might even be ahead in the game .
SETI has only spent 1/1000th of the observation time required to find a detectable signal as produced by modern humans since evolving into existance .
Only loooong term thinking ( generation spanning ) will give the project a fair shake at working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, it's going to take a while...Let's say, humans evolved to the equivalent of modern form and on average no smarter or dumber... Was roughly what?
40,000 years ago?And we had fire not long after that, if not at the start... (Previous hominids aren't all that dumb either.
)Then about 10,000 years ago humans figured out that with those marks you used to make pretty pictures, you could also put ideas into more abstract symbols.
Then that way a lot of information could be passed down or delivered to others without having to remember it all.
That was a pretty big jump.Another big one was somewhere around 5,000 years ago when humans figured out certain pretty or interesting rocks would melt if you put them in a fire that was hot enough.
And that the resulting materials could be made into different things.
It doesn't seem like much, but it's a really big deal.Then somewhere around 1,000 to 500 years ago (depending on if you ask the Chinese or Europeans) printing was invented.
So the availability of knowledge made a huge leap.Then just a little over 100 years ago, we figured out electricity had some uses...Somewhere just over 60 years ago... the first solid-state transistor...And it's really not terribly much more than that 50 year window that SETI has been active in which we have actually been able to produce the electronics that could produce and detect the kind of signal SETI is looking for.If other intelligent life is out there and comparable to us in ability (able to alter environment) and capability (friable metals and other chemical resources available), then that really gives a 50,000 year window give or take a few to be certain we're alone in the neighborhood.
Provided they'd want to talk to us of course, they might even be ahead in the game.
SETI has only spent 1/1000th of the observation time required to find a detectable signal as produced by modern humans since evolving into existance.
Only loooong term thinking (generation spanning) will give the project a fair shake at working.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479664</id>
	<title>reasons for that can be many but...</title>
	<author>mhs1973</author>
	<datestamp>1268650620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...considering where we are, in relation to other inhabited patches of the universe, that is no surprise to me</htmltext>
<tokenext>...considering where we are , in relation to other inhabited patches of the universe , that is no surprise to me</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...considering where we are, in relation to other inhabited patches of the universe, that is no surprise to me</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476564</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268574900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But yet people are ready to declare global warming as truth with only 50 years of data....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But yet people are ready to declare global warming as truth with only 50 years of data... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But yet people are ready to declare global warming as truth with only 50 years of data....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482926</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1268672520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from? There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Unless there's something major we don't understand about the laws of physics, we're not going to be competing for the same resources.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources .
Unless there 's something major we do n't understand about the laws of physics , we 're not going to be competing for the same resources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?
There has never been mutual cooperation between civilizations or species competing for the same resources.
Unless there's something major we don't understand about the laws of physics, we're not going to be competing for the same resources.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476178</id>
	<title>Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's already hard enough to live on this planet without being irritated by terrestrial life.  What makes you think we'll find intellient life on other planets, if we can't even find it on our own?</p><p>Just remember the most irritating person you've ever come across?  What if we come in contact with aliens, only to find out they're even worse?  Maybe they don't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet, and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet?</p><p>I'm thinking that we should stay hidden.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's already hard enough to live on this planet without being irritated by terrestrial life .
What makes you think we 'll find intellient life on other planets , if we ca n't even find it on our own ? Just remember the most irritating person you 've ever come across ?
What if we come in contact with aliens , only to find out they 're even worse ?
Maybe they do n't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet , and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet ? I 'm thinking that we should stay hidden .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's already hard enough to live on this planet without being irritated by terrestrial life.
What makes you think we'll find intellient life on other planets, if we can't even find it on our own?Just remember the most irritating person you've ever come across?
What if we come in contact with aliens, only to find out they're even worse?
Maybe they don't have decent indoor plumbing on their planet, and put the used toilet paper in the trash cans instead of inside the toilet?I'm thinking that we should stay hidden.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31492992</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>goose-incarnated</author>
	<datestamp>1268734860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, we are basing these assumptions after observing every single "alive" thing on this planet, plants included, that destroy each other in order that their species succeeds. Thinking that a species from another planet is going to magically be different means ignoring what we know about every living creature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , we are basing these assumptions after observing every single " alive " thing on this planet , plants included , that destroy each other in order that their species succeeds .
Thinking that a species from another planet is going to magically be different means ignoring what we know about every living creature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, we are basing these assumptions after observing every single "alive" thing on this planet, plants included, that destroy each other in order that their species succeeds.
Thinking that a species from another planet is going to magically be different means ignoring what we know about every living creature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478490</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>digitalchinky</author>
	<datestamp>1268592660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about how SETI works. It doesn't matter whether the signal is encrypted or what kind of modulation it might be using - the search itself is simply to detect an energy lobe above the noise floor of the receive equipment. If you're pumping out 40 watts at 300MHz to talk to your buddy on the other side of the city over AM / FM / Whatever, you're going to need the same, or perhaps even a little more power, if you convert your analogue transmission to digital.</p><p>Just detecting a radio signal from deep space would be of tremendous interest all on its own.</p><p>I do wish SETI would give themselves a little more bandwidth to work with though. 1420MHz, the hydrogen line. That's pretty narrow.</p><p>Back when I was military, from time to time on a boring night watch I would occasionally swing the search dish away from the Clark belt and sit glued to the spectrum analyzer. DC to 80 GHz. I never found anything that wasn't "human" though I never really expected to anyway.</p><p>DNA was right, space is big. Even a 30 meter satellite dish pointed at a bird just 36,000 kilometers away, you move that bad boy by so much as a tenth of a degree and your signal goes to crap. A signal 'light years' away, now that's a pretty damn big haystack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about how SETI works .
It does n't matter whether the signal is encrypted or what kind of modulation it might be using - the search itself is simply to detect an energy lobe above the noise floor of the receive equipment .
If you 're pumping out 40 watts at 300MHz to talk to your buddy on the other side of the city over AM / FM / Whatever , you 're going to need the same , or perhaps even a little more power , if you convert your analogue transmission to digital.Just detecting a radio signal from deep space would be of tremendous interest all on its own.I do wish SETI would give themselves a little more bandwidth to work with though .
1420MHz , the hydrogen line .
That 's pretty narrow.Back when I was military , from time to time on a boring night watch I would occasionally swing the search dish away from the Clark belt and sit glued to the spectrum analyzer .
DC to 80 GHz .
I never found anything that was n't " human " though I never really expected to anyway.DNA was right , space is big .
Even a 30 meter satellite dish pointed at a bird just 36,000 kilometers away , you move that bad boy by so much as a tenth of a degree and your signal goes to crap .
A signal 'light years ' away , now that 's a pretty damn big haystack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about how SETI works.
It doesn't matter whether the signal is encrypted or what kind of modulation it might be using - the search itself is simply to detect an energy lobe above the noise floor of the receive equipment.
If you're pumping out 40 watts at 300MHz to talk to your buddy on the other side of the city over AM / FM / Whatever, you're going to need the same, or perhaps even a little more power, if you convert your analogue transmission to digital.Just detecting a radio signal from deep space would be of tremendous interest all on its own.I do wish SETI would give themselves a little more bandwidth to work with though.
1420MHz, the hydrogen line.
That's pretty narrow.Back when I was military, from time to time on a boring night watch I would occasionally swing the search dish away from the Clark belt and sit glued to the spectrum analyzer.
DC to 80 GHz.
I never found anything that wasn't "human" though I never really expected to anyway.DNA was right, space is big.
Even a 30 meter satellite dish pointed at a bird just 36,000 kilometers away, you move that bad boy by so much as a tenth of a degree and your signal goes to crap.
A signal 'light years' away, now that's a pretty damn big haystack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</id>
	<title>Encryption</title>
	<author>Fished</author>
	<datestamp>1268580300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did anyone think that, maybe, most hypothetical alien signals might <b>encrypted</b>?  I'm referring here not to signals deliberately sent, but to leakage, that sort of thing.  There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio.  Then they move on to digital radio, encryption, etc., at much lower power, and the chance of finding them (in the speed of light window) is lost.  The thing is that an encrypted data stream will look pretty close to random. So, your odds of picking it out of the noise are low.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did anyone think that , maybe , most hypothetical alien signals might encrypted ?
I 'm referring here not to signals deliberately sent , but to leakage , that sort of thing .
There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio .
Then they move on to digital radio , encryption , etc. , at much lower power , and the chance of finding them ( in the speed of light window ) is lost .
The thing is that an encrypted data stream will look pretty close to random .
So , your odds of picking it out of the noise are low .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did anyone think that, maybe, most hypothetical alien signals might encrypted?
I'm referring here not to signals deliberately sent, but to leakage, that sort of thing.
There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio.
Then they move on to digital radio, encryption, etc., at much lower power, and the chance of finding them (in the speed of light window) is lost.
The thing is that an encrypted data stream will look pretty close to random.
So, your odds of picking it out of the noise are low.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478138</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>SoUnDsLiKeWhEn</author>
	<datestamp>1268587500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>don't think Al Qaeda gives a fuck about ET</htmltext>
<tokenext>do n't think Al Qaeda gives a fuck about ET</tokentext>
<sentencetext>don't think Al Qaeda gives a fuck about ET</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476344</id>
	<title>The aliens aren't using radio...</title>
	<author>Rocky</author>
	<datestamp>1268573460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're using subspace communications, or ansible, or ultrawave.</p><p>or semaphore...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're using subspace communications , or ansible , or ultrawave.or semaphore.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're using subspace communications, or ansible, or ultrawave.or semaphore...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481548</id>
	<title>Re:Patience!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268666220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As I recall, the intent was to look for evidence of large scale broadcasts. But if we look at what has been done here on earth -- with the shift to optical and short-range wireless and a de-emphasis on analog TV, we should hardly be surprised. I suspect our radiated signature has become much quieter over the last 50 years -- so why should anyone else persist in doing something that we are phasing out ourselves?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As I recall , the intent was to look for evidence of large scale broadcasts .
But if we look at what has been done here on earth -- with the shift to optical and short-range wireless and a de-emphasis on analog TV , we should hardly be surprised .
I suspect our radiated signature has become much quieter over the last 50 years -- so why should anyone else persist in doing something that we are phasing out ourselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I recall, the intent was to look for evidence of large scale broadcasts.
But if we look at what has been done here on earth -- with the shift to optical and short-range wireless and a de-emphasis on analog TV, we should hardly be surprised.
I suspect our radiated signature has become much quieter over the last 50 years -- so why should anyone else persist in doing something that we are phasing out ourselves?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476288</id>
	<title>mod 0p</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>market. Therefore fucking percent of don't be afraid was what got me are just way over move forward, website. Mr. de today. It's about are She had taken Save Linux from a not anymore. It'S market. Therefore there are TROUBLED OS. NOW to use the GNAA my efforts were</htmltext>
<tokenext>market .
Therefore fucking percent of do n't be afraid was what got me are just way over move forward , website .
Mr. de today .
It 's about are She had taken Save Linux from a not anymore .
It 'S market .
Therefore there are TROUBLED OS .
NOW to use the GNAA my efforts were</tokentext>
<sentencetext>market.
Therefore fucking percent of don't be afraid was what got me are just way over move forward, website.
Mr. de today.
It's about are She had taken Save Linux from a not anymore.
It'S market.
Therefore there are TROUBLED OS.
NOW to use the GNAA my efforts were</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478136</id>
	<title>Weak</title>
	<author>BlackHawk-666</author>
	<datestamp>1268587500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me we're unlikely to find aliens and they are unlikely to find us. The distances between us and possible life are extreme and there's a whole universe of stars, black holes, radiation clouds, and other forms of interference in the way.</p><p>Are you seriously counting on those old AM/FM radio transmissions making a direct line through space-time to a planet 140 billion light years away? Let's look at what can go wrong. Assume the Earth has a bunch of weak transmitters which occasionally fire information into space - this will already be a weak version of a weak signal since it's gone through our atmosphere, clouds, etc.</p><p>1. This signal is subject to inverse-square law. By the time it's left our own solar system the signal is infinitesimal.<br>2. The earth itself will obscure more than 50\% of all the signals as it rotates.<br>3. Signals will be shot straight into our sun or pass close enough to either bend into it's gravity or have it's course dramatically altered.<br>4. There's billions of other suns which will do the same thing as it passes by.<br>5. Signals will slowly approach chaos, and be in-detectable from background radiation.<br>6. Their receivers will be expecting more powerful signals and our will pass "under the radar".</p><p>There's likely a million other ways for a signal which is designed to bounce off our atmosphere to become lost in space as it tries to make it from here...to there, whereever there is. Don't expect contact any time soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me we 're unlikely to find aliens and they are unlikely to find us .
The distances between us and possible life are extreme and there 's a whole universe of stars , black holes , radiation clouds , and other forms of interference in the way.Are you seriously counting on those old AM/FM radio transmissions making a direct line through space-time to a planet 140 billion light years away ?
Let 's look at what can go wrong .
Assume the Earth has a bunch of weak transmitters which occasionally fire information into space - this will already be a weak version of a weak signal since it 's gone through our atmosphere , clouds , etc.1 .
This signal is subject to inverse-square law .
By the time it 's left our own solar system the signal is infinitesimal.2 .
The earth itself will obscure more than 50 \ % of all the signals as it rotates.3 .
Signals will be shot straight into our sun or pass close enough to either bend into it 's gravity or have it 's course dramatically altered.4 .
There 's billions of other suns which will do the same thing as it passes by.5 .
Signals will slowly approach chaos , and be in-detectable from background radiation.6 .
Their receivers will be expecting more powerful signals and our will pass " under the radar " .There 's likely a million other ways for a signal which is designed to bounce off our atmosphere to become lost in space as it tries to make it from here...to there , whereever there is .
Do n't expect contact any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me we're unlikely to find aliens and they are unlikely to find us.
The distances between us and possible life are extreme and there's a whole universe of stars, black holes, radiation clouds, and other forms of interference in the way.Are you seriously counting on those old AM/FM radio transmissions making a direct line through space-time to a planet 140 billion light years away?
Let's look at what can go wrong.
Assume the Earth has a bunch of weak transmitters which occasionally fire information into space - this will already be a weak version of a weak signal since it's gone through our atmosphere, clouds, etc.1.
This signal is subject to inverse-square law.
By the time it's left our own solar system the signal is infinitesimal.2.
The earth itself will obscure more than 50\% of all the signals as it rotates.3.
Signals will be shot straight into our sun or pass close enough to either bend into it's gravity or have it's course dramatically altered.4.
There's billions of other suns which will do the same thing as it passes by.5.
Signals will slowly approach chaos, and be in-detectable from background radiation.6.
Their receivers will be expecting more powerful signals and our will pass "under the radar".There's likely a million other ways for a signal which is designed to bounce off our atmosphere to become lost in space as it tries to make it from here...to there, whereever there is.
Don't expect contact any time soon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478214</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1268588520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All because you don't know how to use the three shells.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All because you do n't know how to use the three shells .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All because you don't know how to use the three shells.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476274</id>
	<title>Obligatory Bill Hicks...</title>
	<author>Foobar of Borg</author>
	<datestamp>1268572920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But what if the ET's are just a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_1MuT\_KSOo4" title="youtube.com">bunch of hillbillies?</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>But what if the ET 's are just a bunch of hillbillies ?
[ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But what if the ET's are just a bunch of hillbillies?
[youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476378</id>
	<title>earth like planets</title>
	<author>agwis</author>
	<datestamp>1268573700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm too lazy to look up the links, or the names of the projects, but I understand within the next few years focus is being placed on locating earth like planets (close to our same size, orbiting a similar star at roughly the same distance we are ours, etc.). I just assumed when I read about this the first time that SETI would be very interested and excited to be given locations of planets that actually have a decent chance of supporting life (as we know it) rather than just randomly focusing on a particular area. This should be exciting times for SETI and their followers but I'm surprised there isn't any mention of it in the interview.</p><p>I hope SETI is going to be all over this as locations of earth like planets are announced and that that is what Paul Davies means by "time to re-think and expand the search for ET"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm too lazy to look up the links , or the names of the projects , but I understand within the next few years focus is being placed on locating earth like planets ( close to our same size , orbiting a similar star at roughly the same distance we are ours , etc. ) .
I just assumed when I read about this the first time that SETI would be very interested and excited to be given locations of planets that actually have a decent chance of supporting life ( as we know it ) rather than just randomly focusing on a particular area .
This should be exciting times for SETI and their followers but I 'm surprised there is n't any mention of it in the interview.I hope SETI is going to be all over this as locations of earth like planets are announced and that that is what Paul Davies means by " time to re-think and expand the search for ET " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm too lazy to look up the links, or the names of the projects, but I understand within the next few years focus is being placed on locating earth like planets (close to our same size, orbiting a similar star at roughly the same distance we are ours, etc.).
I just assumed when I read about this the first time that SETI would be very interested and excited to be given locations of planets that actually have a decent chance of supporting life (as we know it) rather than just randomly focusing on a particular area.
This should be exciting times for SETI and their followers but I'm surprised there isn't any mention of it in the interview.I hope SETI is going to be all over this as locations of earth like planets are announced and that that is what Paul Davies means by "time to re-think and expand the search for ET"!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479868</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1268652660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And <em>I</em> think that anything that <em>does</em> show up here would do so for a purpose, and most likely <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker\_(Saberhagen)" title="wikipedia.org">one that we really wouldn't like</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I think that anything that does show up here would do so for a purpose , and most likely one that we really would n't like [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I think that anything that does show up here would do so for a purpose, and most likely one that we really wouldn't like [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477130</id>
	<title>Evidence is here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268578500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The evidence for a foreign intelligence is here on earth. This evidence is overwhelming. Yes, there is no "hard evidence", but still: Everyone who has done deep *scientific* investigation of the UFO phenomenon won't deny the fact that there is a foreign intelligence on earth.</p><p>Documents</p><ul><li> <a href="http://www.bluebookarchive.org/browse.aspx?Tab=3" title="bluebookarchive.org" rel="nofollow">Project Sign</a> [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1947&ndash;1949)</li><li>'Flying Saucer' Working Party <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20a.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 1</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20b.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 2</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20c.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 3</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20d.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 4</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20e.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 5</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20F.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">part 6</a> [nickpope.net] (GB, 1950&ndash;1951)</li><li> <a href="http://www.bluebookarchive.org/" title="bluebookarchive.org" rel="nofollow">Project Blue Book</a> [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1951&ndash;1969)</li><li> <a href="http://www.ncas.org/condon/index.html" title="ncas.org" rel="nofollow">Condon Report</a> [ncas.org] (USA, 1969)</li><li> <a href="http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml" title="hessdalen.org" rel="nofollow">Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report</a> [hessdalen.org] (N, 1983)</li><li> <a href="http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse\_18\_2\_teodorani.pdf" title="scientific...ration.org" rel="nofollow">Project EMBLA: A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon</a> [scientific...ration.org]. (I, 2004)</li><li> <a href="http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UnidentifiedAerialPhenomenauapInTheUkAirDefenceRegion.htm" title="www.mod.uk" rel="nofollow">Project Condign</a> [www.mod.uk] (GB, 1996&ndash;2000)</li><li> <a href="http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse\_12\_2\_sturrock.pdf" title="scientific...ration.org" rel="nofollow">Sturrock Panel Report</a> [scientific...ration.org] (USA, 1997; PDF file; 572kB)</li><li>COMETA Report <a href="http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA\_part1.pdf" title="ufoevidence.org" rel="nofollow">part 1</a> [ufoevidence.org] / <a href="http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA\_part2.pdf" title="ufoevidence.org" rel="nofollow">part 2</a> [ufoevidence.org] (F, 1999)</li><li>Video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z97WBLxVMww" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">Press conference Disclosure Project&ldquo;</a> [youtube.com] (USA, 2001)</li><li>Video: <a href="http://de.truveo.com/ufo-pressekonferenz-12-november-2007-national/id/3355967271" title="truveo.com" rel="nofollow">Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Ph&#228;nomens&ldquo;</a> [truveo.com] (USA, 2007)</li></ul><p>If you haven't read those papers, please don't assert to know that UFOs (as in "foreign intelligence") don't exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The evidence for a foreign intelligence is here on earth .
This evidence is overwhelming .
Yes , there is no " hard evidence " , but still : Everyone who has done deep * scientific * investigation of the UFO phenomenon wo n't deny the fact that there is a foreign intelligence on earth.Documents Project Sign [ bluebookarchive.org ] ( USA , 1947    1949 ) 'Flying Saucer ' Working Party part 1 [ nickpope.net ] , part 2 [ nickpope.net ] , part 3 [ nickpope.net ] , part 4 [ nickpope.net ] , part 5 [ nickpope.net ] , part 6 [ nickpope.net ] ( GB , 1950    1951 ) Project Blue Book [ bluebookarchive.org ] ( USA , 1951    1969 ) Condon Report [ ncas.org ] ( USA , 1969 ) Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report [ hessdalen.org ] ( N , 1983 ) Project EMBLA : A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon [ scientific...ration.org ] .
( I , 2004 ) Project Condign [ www.mod.uk ] ( GB , 1996    2000 ) Sturrock Panel Report [ scientific...ration.org ] ( USA , 1997 ; PDF file ; 572kB ) COMETA Report part 1 [ ufoevidence.org ] / part 2 [ ufoevidence.org ] ( F , 1999 ) Video : Press conference Disclosure Project    [ youtube.com ] ( USA , 2001 ) Video : Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Ph   nomens    [ truveo.com ] ( USA , 2007 ) If you have n't read those papers , please do n't assert to know that UFOs ( as in " foreign intelligence " ) do n't exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The evidence for a foreign intelligence is here on earth.
This evidence is overwhelming.
Yes, there is no "hard evidence", but still: Everyone who has done deep *scientific* investigation of the UFO phenomenon won't deny the fact that there is a foreign intelligence on earth.Documents Project Sign [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1947–1949)'Flying Saucer' Working Party part 1 [nickpope.net], part 2 [nickpope.net], part 3 [nickpope.net], part 4 [nickpope.net], part 5 [nickpope.net], part 6 [nickpope.net] (GB, 1950–1951) Project Blue Book [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1951–1969) Condon Report [ncas.org] (USA, 1969) Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report [hessdalen.org] (N, 1983) Project EMBLA: A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon [scientific...ration.org].
(I, 2004) Project Condign [www.mod.uk] (GB, 1996–2000) Sturrock Panel Report [scientific...ration.org] (USA, 1997; PDF file; 572kB)COMETA Report part 1 [ufoevidence.org] / part 2 [ufoevidence.org] (F, 1999)Video: Press conference Disclosure Project“ [youtube.com] (USA, 2001)Video: Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Phänomens“ [truveo.com] (USA, 2007)If you haven't read those papers, please don't assert to know that UFOs (as in "foreign intelligence") don't exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31487530</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268646600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We're getting more and more efficient, wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions. Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance. Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either.</p></div></blockquote><p>You're forgetting about radar.  There are some very powerful radars out there and some are aimed outwards.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're getting more and more efficient , wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions .
Eventually we 'll be broadcasting so little that we wo n't be detectable at any reasonable distance .
Anybody inside that inner surface wo n't be able to see us either.You 're forgetting about radar .
There are some very powerful radars out there and some are aimed outwards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're getting more and more efficient, wasting less and less power beaming radio waves off in all directions.
Eventually we'll be broadcasting so little that we won't be detectable at any reasonable distance.
Anybody inside that inner surface won't be able to see us either.You're forgetting about radar.
There are some very powerful radars out there and some are aimed outwards.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477688</id>
	<title>SETI publications</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268583480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is it that when I go to the SETI scientific publications page (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=327), the only person with recent publications (in the last four years) hasn't produced scientific publications recently (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=555).</p><p>Most of the people on this page (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=327) have scientific publications from years ago.</p><p>What has SETI contributed to the scientific community for the last five years? 50 years?</p><p>And what has it contributed to interstellar diplomacy?</p><p>While I think it's great that people like Paul Allen who are passionate about SETI support it, I would be dismayed if SETI is supported by the public through taxes, much like I am horrified that moneysinks like wars and bridges-to-nowhere are constantly funded by the public.</p><p>A side question: the NIH grant award rate is something like 10\% (of submissions get funding). Do 10\% of all contractors who submit applications for contracts receive awards from the government? more, less? Is the review process as rigorous for these applications?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is it that when I go to the SETI scientific publications page ( http : //www.seti.org/Page.aspx ? pid = 327 ) , the only person with recent publications ( in the last four years ) has n't produced scientific publications recently ( http : //www.seti.org/Page.aspx ? pid = 555 ) .Most of the people on this page ( http : //www.seti.org/Page.aspx ? pid = 327 ) have scientific publications from years ago.What has SETI contributed to the scientific community for the last five years ?
50 years ? And what has it contributed to interstellar diplomacy ? While I think it 's great that people like Paul Allen who are passionate about SETI support it , I would be dismayed if SETI is supported by the public through taxes , much like I am horrified that moneysinks like wars and bridges-to-nowhere are constantly funded by the public.A side question : the NIH grant award rate is something like 10 \ % ( of submissions get funding ) .
Do 10 \ % of all contractors who submit applications for contracts receive awards from the government ?
more , less ?
Is the review process as rigorous for these applications ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is it that when I go to the SETI scientific publications page (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=327), the only person with recent publications (in the last four years) hasn't produced scientific publications recently (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=555).Most of the people on this page (http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=327) have scientific publications from years ago.What has SETI contributed to the scientific community for the last five years?
50 years?And what has it contributed to interstellar diplomacy?While I think it's great that people like Paul Allen who are passionate about SETI support it, I would be dismayed if SETI is supported by the public through taxes, much like I am horrified that moneysinks like wars and bridges-to-nowhere are constantly funded by the public.A side question: the NIH grant award rate is something like 10\% (of submissions get funding).
Do 10\% of all contractors who submit applications for contracts receive awards from the government?
more, less?
Is the review process as rigorous for these applications?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480320</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268657280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't matter.  Advanced technology will allow aliens (and fairly soon - and by that I mean in the next hundred years or so - humanity as well) to look at planets on the other side of the galaxy and use spectroscopy to see which ones have oxygen.  Oxygen isn't stable, it's a clear indication of life.  That doesn't mean life always creates oxygen, but if there *is* oxygen, *something* must be refreshing the supply.  That said, oxygen (among other similarly unstable elements) have been present on our planet for billions of years.  If there are advanced aliens in this galaxy, they've already cataloged our planet as "potentially containing life" since before we evolved.  They've *also* had enough time to get here.  I'm not saying aliens walk among us, but it's a pretty interesting thought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't matter .
Advanced technology will allow aliens ( and fairly soon - and by that I mean in the next hundred years or so - humanity as well ) to look at planets on the other side of the galaxy and use spectroscopy to see which ones have oxygen .
Oxygen is n't stable , it 's a clear indication of life .
That does n't mean life always creates oxygen , but if there * is * oxygen , * something * must be refreshing the supply .
That said , oxygen ( among other similarly unstable elements ) have been present on our planet for billions of years .
If there are advanced aliens in this galaxy , they 've already cataloged our planet as " potentially containing life " since before we evolved .
They 've * also * had enough time to get here .
I 'm not saying aliens walk among us , but it 's a pretty interesting thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't matter.
Advanced technology will allow aliens (and fairly soon - and by that I mean in the next hundred years or so - humanity as well) to look at planets on the other side of the galaxy and use spectroscopy to see which ones have oxygen.
Oxygen isn't stable, it's a clear indication of life.
That doesn't mean life always creates oxygen, but if there *is* oxygen, *something* must be refreshing the supply.
That said, oxygen (among other similarly unstable elements) have been present on our planet for billions of years.
If there are advanced aliens in this galaxy, they've already cataloged our planet as "potentially containing life" since before we evolved.
They've *also* had enough time to get here.
I'm not saying aliens walk among us, but it's a pretty interesting thought.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476362</id>
	<title>Differing levels of civilization</title>
	<author>ezratrumpet</author>
	<datestamp>1268573580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>We generally view the Stone Age tribes still lingering in the world as worthy of monitoring from a distance. Perhaps we occasionally intervening with some sort of sustenance or relief if it won't really mess them up, but all in all, we leave them alone rather than turn their world upside down.<br> <br>With that in mind, how would a civilization sufficiently advanced to travel here from Alpha Centauri view our civilization? <br> <br>"Mostly harmless."<br> <br>"We'll give them a little longer. When they manage to visit the rest of the neighborhood - maybe when they're able to travel to another planet in their little solar system - we'll say hello. As long as we use short words and simple sentences, we might be able to help them understand speed-of-light travel."<br> <br>"Okay. But if they start shooting those cute little firecrackers at us, I'm throwing a marble [read: black hole] into the middle of their little planet."</htmltext>
<tokenext>We generally view the Stone Age tribes still lingering in the world as worthy of monitoring from a distance .
Perhaps we occasionally intervening with some sort of sustenance or relief if it wo n't really mess them up , but all in all , we leave them alone rather than turn their world upside down .
With that in mind , how would a civilization sufficiently advanced to travel here from Alpha Centauri view our civilization ?
" Mostly harmless .
" " We 'll give them a little longer .
When they manage to visit the rest of the neighborhood - maybe when they 're able to travel to another planet in their little solar system - we 'll say hello .
As long as we use short words and simple sentences , we might be able to help them understand speed-of-light travel .
" " Okay .
But if they start shooting those cute little firecrackers at us , I 'm throwing a marble [ read : black hole ] into the middle of their little planet .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We generally view the Stone Age tribes still lingering in the world as worthy of monitoring from a distance.
Perhaps we occasionally intervening with some sort of sustenance or relief if it won't really mess them up, but all in all, we leave them alone rather than turn their world upside down.
With that in mind, how would a civilization sufficiently advanced to travel here from Alpha Centauri view our civilization?
"Mostly harmless.
" "We'll give them a little longer.
When they manage to visit the rest of the neighborhood - maybe when they're able to travel to another planet in their little solar system - we'll say hello.
As long as we use short words and simple sentences, we might be able to help them understand speed-of-light travel.
" "Okay.
But if they start shooting those cute little firecrackers at us, I'm throwing a marble [read: black hole] into the middle of their little planet.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478312</id>
	<title>Failmath is Fail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268589720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come on people. Consider that some of our nearest possible galactic neighbors are on the order of 26 light years away, With radio communication, that means that the signal will get there in about 26 years. Assuming that Einstein was right, and nothing can go faster than C, it would take the same amount of time for any signal from the receiving planet to return.</p><p>Assuming normal radio transmission levels through space, the signal would be SERIOUSLY weak by the time it got there, or reached us coming back. SETI covers like 1\% of the sky with their equipment at any given time. The probability is, even if there IS intelligent life in abundance out there, we're just not well enough equipped and haven't been at it long enough to see any results.</p><p>The 'Fermi Paradox' is tough to swallow. Something as generalized as "If it was there we would've seen it" is hard to take as any science-based theory. For being such a smart guy, Fermi dropped the ball on that one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on people .
Consider that some of our nearest possible galactic neighbors are on the order of 26 light years away , With radio communication , that means that the signal will get there in about 26 years .
Assuming that Einstein was right , and nothing can go faster than C , it would take the same amount of time for any signal from the receiving planet to return.Assuming normal radio transmission levels through space , the signal would be SERIOUSLY weak by the time it got there , or reached us coming back .
SETI covers like 1 \ % of the sky with their equipment at any given time .
The probability is , even if there IS intelligent life in abundance out there , we 're just not well enough equipped and have n't been at it long enough to see any results.The 'Fermi Paradox ' is tough to swallow .
Something as generalized as " If it was there we would 've seen it " is hard to take as any science-based theory .
For being such a smart guy , Fermi dropped the ball on that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on people.
Consider that some of our nearest possible galactic neighbors are on the order of 26 light years away, With radio communication, that means that the signal will get there in about 26 years.
Assuming that Einstein was right, and nothing can go faster than C, it would take the same amount of time for any signal from the receiving planet to return.Assuming normal radio transmission levels through space, the signal would be SERIOUSLY weak by the time it got there, or reached us coming back.
SETI covers like 1\% of the sky with their equipment at any given time.
The probability is, even if there IS intelligent life in abundance out there, we're just not well enough equipped and haven't been at it long enough to see any results.The 'Fermi Paradox' is tough to swallow.
Something as generalized as "If it was there we would've seen it" is hard to take as any science-based theory.
For being such a smart guy, Fermi dropped the ball on that one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478578</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>nscott89</author>
	<datestamp>1268593860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't all alien communication appear encrypted anyways? I mean, it's not like we are going to understand it. That's not the point of the SETI project. The point is to find ANY signal that appears to be the result of intelligent, technological life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't all alien communication appear encrypted anyways ?
I mean , it 's not like we are going to understand it .
That 's not the point of the SETI project .
The point is to find ANY signal that appears to be the result of intelligent , technological life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't all alien communication appear encrypted anyways?
I mean, it's not like we are going to understand it.
That's not the point of the SETI project.
The point is to find ANY signal that appears to be the result of intelligent, technological life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477788</id>
	<title>Not encryption, but efficient transmission.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1268584320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio. </i>
</p><p>
Most modern forms of radio communication look like noise unless you know what to look for.  Nobody uses big "carriers" any more.
In analog TV, 80\% of the energy went into the video carrier, which was easy to detect but conveyed no information beyond "I'm here, and you can tune to this."  That's history.  I made this point to some SETI people about fifteen years ago, and now, with analog transmission much reduced, it's clear that looking for carriers is probably futile.  If somebody within a few light years was putting out a big carrier, we'd have noticed by now.
</p><p>
Of course, the pessimistic view is that technological civilizations have a lifespan of maybe 100 to 300 years between first radio transmission and collapse due to resource exhaustion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio .
Most modern forms of radio communication look like noise unless you know what to look for .
Nobody uses big " carriers " any more .
In analog TV , 80 \ % of the energy went into the video carrier , which was easy to detect but conveyed no information beyond " I 'm here , and you can tune to this .
" That 's history .
I made this point to some SETI people about fifteen years ago , and now , with analog transmission much reduced , it 's clear that looking for carriers is probably futile .
If somebody within a few light years was putting out a big carrier , we 'd have noticed by now .
Of course , the pessimistic view is that technological civilizations have a lifespan of maybe 100 to 300 years between first radio transmission and collapse due to resource exhaustion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
There may be a relatively short window in which any civilization uses unencrypted radio.
Most modern forms of radio communication look like noise unless you know what to look for.
Nobody uses big "carriers" any more.
In analog TV, 80\% of the energy went into the video carrier, which was easy to detect but conveyed no information beyond "I'm here, and you can tune to this.
"  That's history.
I made this point to some SETI people about fifteen years ago, and now, with analog transmission much reduced, it's clear that looking for carriers is probably futile.
If somebody within a few light years was putting out a big carrier, we'd have noticed by now.
Of course, the pessimistic view is that technological civilizations have a lifespan of maybe 100 to 300 years between first radio transmission and collapse due to resource exhaustion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479794</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1268652000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would asume alien life is looking for and aware of inteligent life. Next it would asume that they have studies us AND understood what we are about. Half of the time we don't even know these things ourselves.</p><p>And I would think that any form of life would be interesting. If we find some sort of bacteria on Mars, we will be extremely interested. I am sure that anybody interested in exploring the universe will be interested in us.</p><p>It could well be that they are just not interested in exploring the universe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would asume alien life is looking for and aware of inteligent life .
Next it would asume that they have studies us AND understood what we are about .
Half of the time we do n't even know these things ourselves.And I would think that any form of life would be interesting .
If we find some sort of bacteria on Mars , we will be extremely interested .
I am sure that anybody interested in exploring the universe will be interested in us.It could well be that they are just not interested in exploring the universe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would asume alien life is looking for and aware of inteligent life.
Next it would asume that they have studies us AND understood what we are about.
Half of the time we don't even know these things ourselves.And I would think that any form of life would be interesting.
If we find some sort of bacteria on Mars, we will be extremely interested.
I am sure that anybody interested in exploring the universe will be interested in us.It could well be that they are just not interested in exploring the universe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481222</id>
	<title>Or aliens are already here, but we can't see them.</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1268664180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps their technology is so advanced, they we can't see them. Perhaps they have figured out all the physics mysteries we haven't figured out yet, and those physics allow mechanisms for communication that we cannot comprehend yet. Perhaps aliens were here in the past and left.</p><p>There are so many possibilities...ruling out the existence of alien intelligent life because we only have searched for 50 years and found nothing it's shortsighted at best.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps their technology is so advanced , they we ca n't see them .
Perhaps they have figured out all the physics mysteries we have n't figured out yet , and those physics allow mechanisms for communication that we can not comprehend yet .
Perhaps aliens were here in the past and left.There are so many possibilities...ruling out the existence of alien intelligent life because we only have searched for 50 years and found nothing it 's shortsighted at best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps their technology is so advanced, they we can't see them.
Perhaps they have figured out all the physics mysteries we haven't figured out yet, and those physics allow mechanisms for communication that we cannot comprehend yet.
Perhaps aliens were here in the past and left.There are so many possibilities...ruling out the existence of alien intelligent life because we only have searched for 50 years and found nothing it's shortsighted at best.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482918</id>
	<title>Why is a negative result considered a failure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268672520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SETI started out with the question "Is there extra-terrestrial intelligence?"  not "Where is the extra-terrestrial intelligence that must be out there?".   So why to people persist in calling what they've managed so far a "failure"?</p><p>What they have shown is that there are no alien intelligences within about 50 light years...or at least none that want to talk to us.   That's a useful piece of information.   Finding that out is a successful outcome - not a failure.</p><p>A failure would be that none of their equipment worked - or that they kept coming up with false alarms or that we found there were aliens out there after all and SETI failed to find them.  None of those things have happened - so as far as we can tell, SETI is a success...albeit a boring one.  Science proceeds as much by veryifying the mundane facts that we kinda already suspect as it does by revolutionary things like evolution, quantum theory and relativity.   Is it a failure of meteorology that we now have solid mathematical proof that you can't reliably predict the weather for more than a few days ahead?  Was it a failure of biology to discover that the virus responsible for the common cold mutates so fast that we can't cure it?  No!  These things were successful outcomes of a search for the truth.</p><p>Same deal with SETI.  They are doing good work - and if they finally conclude that we are the only intelligent life in the galaxy, that would be a profound and interesting outcome.   We should continue to give them whatever support they need for at least the next 50 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SETI started out with the question " Is there extra-terrestrial intelligence ?
" not " Where is the extra-terrestrial intelligence that must be out there ? " .
So why to people persist in calling what they 've managed so far a " failure " ? What they have shown is that there are no alien intelligences within about 50 light years...or at least none that want to talk to us .
That 's a useful piece of information .
Finding that out is a successful outcome - not a failure.A failure would be that none of their equipment worked - or that they kept coming up with false alarms or that we found there were aliens out there after all and SETI failed to find them .
None of those things have happened - so as far as we can tell , SETI is a success...albeit a boring one .
Science proceeds as much by veryifying the mundane facts that we kinda already suspect as it does by revolutionary things like evolution , quantum theory and relativity .
Is it a failure of meteorology that we now have solid mathematical proof that you ca n't reliably predict the weather for more than a few days ahead ?
Was it a failure of biology to discover that the virus responsible for the common cold mutates so fast that we ca n't cure it ?
No ! These things were successful outcomes of a search for the truth.Same deal with SETI .
They are doing good work - and if they finally conclude that we are the only intelligent life in the galaxy , that would be a profound and interesting outcome .
We should continue to give them whatever support they need for at least the next 50 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SETI started out with the question "Is there extra-terrestrial intelligence?
"  not "Where is the extra-terrestrial intelligence that must be out there?".
So why to people persist in calling what they've managed so far a "failure"?What they have shown is that there are no alien intelligences within about 50 light years...or at least none that want to talk to us.
That's a useful piece of information.
Finding that out is a successful outcome - not a failure.A failure would be that none of their equipment worked - or that they kept coming up with false alarms or that we found there were aliens out there after all and SETI failed to find them.
None of those things have happened - so as far as we can tell, SETI is a success...albeit a boring one.
Science proceeds as much by veryifying the mundane facts that we kinda already suspect as it does by revolutionary things like evolution, quantum theory and relativity.
Is it a failure of meteorology that we now have solid mathematical proof that you can't reliably predict the weather for more than a few days ahead?
Was it a failure of biology to discover that the virus responsible for the common cold mutates so fast that we can't cure it?
No!  These things were successful outcomes of a search for the truth.Same deal with SETI.
They are doing good work - and if they finally conclude that we are the only intelligent life in the galaxy, that would be a profound and interesting outcome.
We should continue to give them whatever support they need for at least the next 50 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479908</id>
	<title>scary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268653080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMHO it is scary to think that we are alone in the entire universe</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO it is scary to think that we are alone in the entire universe</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO it is scary to think that we are alone in the entire universe</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478002</id>
	<title>Look for short lived temporal phenomenon</title>
	<author>wisebabo</author>
	<datestamp>1268586000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next time there is a REALLY unusual cosmic event (supernova within one's own galaxy, collision of two black holes), cast your net a little wider and train your telescopes on a region of the sky surrounding the event.  Any advanced civilization will know that lots of other astronomers will be pointing their telescopes in their general direction and, if they choose to make their presence known, will send signals in a direction opposite (to them) of the event.  There should be a better chance for them to be noticed.</p><p>As for the Fermi paradox, another solution is that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE, ALL AROUND US, in the form of nano-machines.  Very soon, as our technology and becomes capable of discovering them, they will have to leave or announce themselves.  Or they will decide that we did not pass the test and clear off the planet for the next candidate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next time there is a REALLY unusual cosmic event ( supernova within one 's own galaxy , collision of two black holes ) , cast your net a little wider and train your telescopes on a region of the sky surrounding the event .
Any advanced civilization will know that lots of other astronomers will be pointing their telescopes in their general direction and , if they choose to make their presence known , will send signals in a direction opposite ( to them ) of the event .
There should be a better chance for them to be noticed.As for the Fermi paradox , another solution is that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE , ALL AROUND US , in the form of nano-machines .
Very soon , as our technology and becomes capable of discovering them , they will have to leave or announce themselves .
Or they will decide that we did not pass the test and clear off the planet for the next candidate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next time there is a REALLY unusual cosmic event (supernova within one's own galaxy, collision of two black holes), cast your net a little wider and train your telescopes on a region of the sky surrounding the event.
Any advanced civilization will know that lots of other astronomers will be pointing their telescopes in their general direction and, if they choose to make their presence known, will send signals in a direction opposite (to them) of the event.
There should be a better chance for them to be noticed.As for the Fermi paradox, another solution is that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE, ALL AROUND US, in the form of nano-machines.
Very soon, as our technology and becomes capable of discovering them, they will have to leave or announce themselves.
Or they will decide that we did not pass the test and clear off the planet for the next candidate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480964</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268662680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?</p></div><p>Let me see...none?  Why would they?  So many people's fertile imaginations have been stimulated with this idea, that it's easy to \_imagine\_ wars ending here.  But what about our reality on earth would change?  Would we suddenly find more energy/resources?  No.  Would our level of wisdom about how to live change?  No.  Would people's ingrained tendencies to be religious disappear?  Probably not.  Due to distances, we wouldn't even be able to communicate with the alien civilization in real-time.</p><p>Yes, such a finding would change the priorities of astronomers, and give astrobiologists their first reason to continue working, but nothing for the common man would change.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , honestly , if we know there is another alien life out there , that we could potentially communicate with , how many stupid squabbles would end ? Let me see...none ?
Why would they ?
So many people 's fertile imaginations have been stimulated with this idea , that it 's easy to \ _imagine \ _ wars ending here .
But what about our reality on earth would change ?
Would we suddenly find more energy/resources ?
No. Would our level of wisdom about how to live change ?
No. Would people 's ingrained tendencies to be religious disappear ?
Probably not .
Due to distances , we would n't even be able to communicate with the alien civilization in real-time.Yes , such a finding would change the priorities of astronomers , and give astrobiologists their first reason to continue working , but nothing for the common man would change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?Let me see...none?
Why would they?
So many people's fertile imaginations have been stimulated with this idea, that it's easy to \_imagine\_ wars ending here.
But what about our reality on earth would change?
Would we suddenly find more energy/resources?
No.  Would our level of wisdom about how to live change?
No.  Would people's ingrained tendencies to be religious disappear?
Probably not.
Due to distances, we wouldn't even be able to communicate with the alien civilization in real-time.Yes, such a finding would change the priorities of astronomers, and give astrobiologists their first reason to continue working, but nothing for the common man would change.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477092</id>
	<title>Re:We are the only ones</title>
	<author>IICV</author>
	<datestamp>1268578260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first ones in 15 billion years, over the entirety of the universe? Not bloody likely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first ones in 15 billion years , over the entirety of the universe ?
Not bloody likely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first ones in 15 billion years, over the entirety of the universe?
Not bloody likely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477184</id>
	<title>We already know there is intelligent life....</title>
	<author>3seas</author>
	<datestamp>1268578920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>....out there as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient\_astronaut\_theories" title="wikipedia.org">Ancient astronauts</a> [wikipedia.org] where Ezekiel the even documents his encounter.</p><p>There are plenty of people who have seen technology in use far more advanced than what we can make, even today.</p><p>The real question is not whether there is such life out there but why have we not found them or why are they hiding?</p><p>Given the amount of stars it is estimated that we should have been able to find quite a few differ intelligent life forms or evidence of such. Its actually a puzzelment why we haven't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>....out there as the Ancient astronauts [ wikipedia.org ] where Ezekiel the even documents his encounter.There are plenty of people who have seen technology in use far more advanced than what we can make , even today.The real question is not whether there is such life out there but why have we not found them or why are they hiding ? Given the amount of stars it is estimated that we should have been able to find quite a few differ intelligent life forms or evidence of such .
Its actually a puzzelment why we have n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....out there as the Ancient astronauts [wikipedia.org] where Ezekiel the even documents his encounter.There are plenty of people who have seen technology in use far more advanced than what we can make, even today.The real question is not whether there is such life out there but why have we not found them or why are they hiding?Given the amount of stars it is estimated that we should have been able to find quite a few differ intelligent life forms or evidence of such.
Its actually a puzzelment why we haven't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478150</id>
	<title>not worth it...</title>
	<author>Eth1csGrad1ent</author>
	<datestamp>1268587740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So that image burn on my old 17" Samsung CRT was all for nothing ???   Damn.. what a waste!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So that image burn on my old 17 " Samsung CRT was all for nothing ? ? ?
Damn.. what a waste !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So that image burn on my old 17" Samsung CRT was all for nothing ???
Damn.. what a waste!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478848</id>
	<title>Re:We are the only ones</title>
	<author>avilliers</author>
	<datestamp>1268684700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place. We are the First Ones.</p></div><p>I realize Slashdot loves the ET thing, but who modding the parent as a troll?  Really?  For suggesting we're alone and tosssing in a sci-fi cliche?</p><p>Beyond that, I don't even think it's a ridiculous suggestion on the merits.  Life itself seems to have risen quickly, but it did take life a long time for any intelligence to appear on Earth--billions of years with life, but no technology and no intelligence.  That certainly suggests it's not inevitable.  It might really be a one in a billion fluke--we don't know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place .
We are the First Ones.I realize Slashdot loves the ET thing , but who modding the parent as a troll ?
Really ? For suggesting we 're alone and tosssing in a sci-fi cliche ? Beyond that , I do n't even think it 's a ridiculous suggestion on the merits .
Life itself seems to have risen quickly , but it did take life a long time for any intelligence to appear on Earth--billions of years with life , but no technology and no intelligence .
That certainly suggests it 's not inevitable .
It might really be a one in a billion fluke--we do n't know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place.
We are the First Ones.I realize Slashdot loves the ET thing, but who modding the parent as a troll?
Really?  For suggesting we're alone and tosssing in a sci-fi cliche?Beyond that, I don't even think it's a ridiculous suggestion on the merits.
Life itself seems to have risen quickly, but it did take life a long time for any intelligence to appear on Earth--billions of years with life, but no technology and no intelligence.
That certainly suggests it's not inevitable.
It might really be a one in a billion fluke--we don't know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476242</id>
	<title>It's like violence</title>
	<author>oldhack</author>
	<datestamp>1268572680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
"... says it's  time to re-think and expand the search for ET."
</p><p>
SETI obviously is not using enough XML. What you need is...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ... says it 's time to re-think and expand the search for ET .
" SETI obviously is not using enough XML .
What you need is.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
"... says it's  time to re-think and expand the search for ET.
"

SETI obviously is not using enough XML.
What you need is...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478036</id>
	<title>Re:After 50 years?</title>
	<author>telomerewhythere</author>
	<datestamp>1268586300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But would not an intelligent ET have continuous (or near continuous) pinging?  OTOH, if ET is anything like Humanity, maybe they're hiding too...</htmltext>
<tokenext>But would not an intelligent ET have continuous ( or near continuous ) pinging ?
OTOH , if ET is anything like Humanity , maybe they 're hiding too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But would not an intelligent ET have continuous (or near continuous) pinging?
OTOH, if ET is anything like Humanity, maybe they're hiding too...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478942</id>
	<title>Re:Think of the dangers, though.</title>
	<author>OrangeCatholic</author>
	<datestamp>1268686020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;What if we come in contact with aliens, only to find out they're even worse?</p><p>This was the point of the TV show Roswell.</p><p><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0201391/" title="imdb.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0201391/</a> [imdb.com]</p><p>Also Battlestar Galactica, if I'm following it properly (never easy).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; What if we come in contact with aliens , only to find out they 're even worse ? This was the point of the TV show Roswell.http : //www.imdb.com/title/tt0201391/ [ imdb.com ] Also Battlestar Galactica , if I 'm following it properly ( never easy ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;What if we come in contact with aliens, only to find out they're even worse?This was the point of the TV show Roswell.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0201391/ [imdb.com]Also Battlestar Galactica, if I'm following it properly (never easy).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31491456</id>
	<title>Get Over Yourselves</title>
	<author>DynaSoar</author>
	<datestamp>1268669220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get over the human-centric thinking such as displayed in TFA, or your result criteria will be so restricted that you'd never find anything other than your selves.</p><p>SETI is searching for intelligent life on stellar systems other than this one. So why is an arbitrary number of revolutions of one planet around its star, presented as a number in an arbitrary number base (in this case, base ten; and not truly arbitrary since it is used because it matches the number of manual digits on the hands on the beings doing the searching), significant? It's not.</p><p>Nor is it directly relevant to SETI. It's the kind of thinking that makes "50 years" significant that restricts the thinking that will make it possible to detect extra-terrestrial intelligence. Once that thinking understands why it has to specifically give up concepts like "50" and "years" when thinking about this subject, it will begin to make itself able to expand its thinking outside the restrictions of its own nature and able to think in terms of all possible natures.</p><p>Consider beings with fluid bodies similar to amoeba. They will have no set number of digits, and so may use different number bases for different measures. "50" and the thinking that understands such numbers ceases to mean anything. And consider that rather than counting stellar revolutions, they instead measure time according to a variable standard, with "years" ceasing to be useful as a concept. And consider that beings 'out there' discovered very early the chaotic nature of most physical phenomena, and so when presenting numbers relating to dimensions or numbers of variables that best describes something, they give a non-integer number. Given just these few differences, it may not be possible to decode any signal relating numerical data, and it's certainly unlikely that any who maintain a "50 years" mentality would agree that the decoding is meaningful. That point may not pertain to SETI researchers, but may petain to the far larger number of scientists that must agree with the presented information in order for it to be considered accepted as scientifically accurate and a true signal indicating intelligence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get over the human-centric thinking such as displayed in TFA , or your result criteria will be so restricted that you 'd never find anything other than your selves.SETI is searching for intelligent life on stellar systems other than this one .
So why is an arbitrary number of revolutions of one planet around its star , presented as a number in an arbitrary number base ( in this case , base ten ; and not truly arbitrary since it is used because it matches the number of manual digits on the hands on the beings doing the searching ) , significant ?
It 's not.Nor is it directly relevant to SETI .
It 's the kind of thinking that makes " 50 years " significant that restricts the thinking that will make it possible to detect extra-terrestrial intelligence .
Once that thinking understands why it has to specifically give up concepts like " 50 " and " years " when thinking about this subject , it will begin to make itself able to expand its thinking outside the restrictions of its own nature and able to think in terms of all possible natures.Consider beings with fluid bodies similar to amoeba .
They will have no set number of digits , and so may use different number bases for different measures .
" 50 " and the thinking that understands such numbers ceases to mean anything .
And consider that rather than counting stellar revolutions , they instead measure time according to a variable standard , with " years " ceasing to be useful as a concept .
And consider that beings 'out there ' discovered very early the chaotic nature of most physical phenomena , and so when presenting numbers relating to dimensions or numbers of variables that best describes something , they give a non-integer number .
Given just these few differences , it may not be possible to decode any signal relating numerical data , and it 's certainly unlikely that any who maintain a " 50 years " mentality would agree that the decoding is meaningful .
That point may not pertain to SETI researchers , but may petain to the far larger number of scientists that must agree with the presented information in order for it to be considered accepted as scientifically accurate and a true signal indicating intelligence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get over the human-centric thinking such as displayed in TFA, or your result criteria will be so restricted that you'd never find anything other than your selves.SETI is searching for intelligent life on stellar systems other than this one.
So why is an arbitrary number of revolutions of one planet around its star, presented as a number in an arbitrary number base (in this case, base ten; and not truly arbitrary since it is used because it matches the number of manual digits on the hands on the beings doing the searching), significant?
It's not.Nor is it directly relevant to SETI.
It's the kind of thinking that makes "50 years" significant that restricts the thinking that will make it possible to detect extra-terrestrial intelligence.
Once that thinking understands why it has to specifically give up concepts like "50" and "years" when thinking about this subject, it will begin to make itself able to expand its thinking outside the restrictions of its own nature and able to think in terms of all possible natures.Consider beings with fluid bodies similar to amoeba.
They will have no set number of digits, and so may use different number bases for different measures.
"50" and the thinking that understands such numbers ceases to mean anything.
And consider that rather than counting stellar revolutions, they instead measure time according to a variable standard, with "years" ceasing to be useful as a concept.
And consider that beings 'out there' discovered very early the chaotic nature of most physical phenomena, and so when presenting numbers relating to dimensions or numbers of variables that best describes something, they give a non-integer number.
Given just these few differences, it may not be possible to decode any signal relating numerical data, and it's certainly unlikely that any who maintain a "50 years" mentality would agree that the decoding is meaningful.
That point may not pertain to SETI researchers, but may petain to the far larger number of scientists that must agree with the presented information in order for it to be considered accepted as scientifically accurate and a true signal indicating intelligence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476504</id>
	<title>Re:Antenna not big enough?</title>
	<author>Vellmont</author>
	<datestamp>1268574540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's a calculator someone cooked up that might be able to answer the question.</p><p><a href="http://www.satsig.net/seticalc.htm" title="satsig.net">http://www.satsig.net/seticalc.htm</a> [satsig.net]</p><p>If you run with the default numbers (Aerocibo sized receiver+transmitter) the range is around 23 light years.  The real numbers are going to be a bit different however, since our transmissions are usually not directional, but the transmit power is also higher.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a calculator someone cooked up that might be able to answer the question.http : //www.satsig.net/seticalc.htm [ satsig.net ] If you run with the default numbers ( Aerocibo sized receiver + transmitter ) the range is around 23 light years .
The real numbers are going to be a bit different however , since our transmissions are usually not directional , but the transmit power is also higher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a calculator someone cooked up that might be able to answer the question.http://www.satsig.net/seticalc.htm [satsig.net]If you run with the default numbers (Aerocibo sized receiver+transmitter) the range is around 23 light years.
The real numbers are going to be a bit different however, since our transmissions are usually not directional, but the transmit power is also higher.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477408</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh</title>
	<author>shermo</author>
	<datestamp>1268580540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes! That's why whenever I look at the sky I can only see 133 stars.</p><p><a href="http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html" title="atlasoftheuniverse.com">http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html</a> [atlasoftheuniverse.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes !
That 's why whenever I look at the sky I can only see 133 stars.http : //www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html [ atlasoftheuniverse.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes!
That's why whenever I look at the sky I can only see 133 stars.http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html [atlasoftheuniverse.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480396</id>
	<title>Re:Patience!</title>
	<author>Haxamanish</author>
	<datestamp>1268658060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, when you're done with that stuff, you're ready to understand all of <a href="http://www.timecube.com/" title="timecube.com">this</a> [timecube.com]..</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , when you 're done with that stuff , you 're ready to understand all of this [ timecube.com ] . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, when you're done with that stuff, you're ready to understand all of this [timecube.com]..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477562</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>Ricken</author>
	<datestamp>1268582400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if we blow up the sun? Would that send them a clear enough message?<br>
<a href="http://www.bash.org/?744067" title="bash.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bash.org/?744067</a> [bash.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if we blow up the sun ?
Would that send them a clear enough message ?
http : //www.bash.org/ ? 744067 [ bash.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if we blow up the sun?
Would that send them a clear enough message?
http://www.bash.org/?744067 [bash.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31492348</id>
	<title>50 years no signs</title>
	<author>ps2os2</author>
	<datestamp>1268680080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sigh... I have been running SETI on my computers for at least 15 years.<br>For the last 4 months their servers have been so unreliable I am guessing even if life was found SETI would not know about it.<br>I am guessing that they run MS servers as UPTIME is not in their vocabulary.<br>Worthwhile project but any work done will be down the tubes because of their ability to keep their servers up and running (reliably)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sigh... I have been running SETI on my computers for at least 15 years.For the last 4 months their servers have been so unreliable I am guessing even if life was found SETI would not know about it.I am guessing that they run MS servers as UPTIME is not in their vocabulary.Worthwhile project but any work done will be down the tubes because of their ability to keep their servers up and running ( reliably )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sigh... I have been running SETI on my computers for at least 15 years.For the last 4 months their servers have been so unreliable I am guessing even if life was found SETI would not know about it.I am guessing that they run MS servers as UPTIME is not in their vocabulary.Worthwhile project but any work done will be down the tubes because of their ability to keep their servers up and running (reliably)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478522</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Kitkoan</author>
	<datestamp>1268593080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point.  The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.  Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).</p><p>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.  I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?</p><p>Right now, we only worry about ourselves because, well, that's all there is to worry about.  The prospect of learning from another civilization, or even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that) could be utterly revolutionary.</p><p>Then again, so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling.</p></div><p>Only problem is, you seem to believe that people would treat aliens as friendly equals. History shows that it won't be anywhere as clean and simple as that. You do mention that we might just be afraid and try to 'defend' ourselves from them.</p><p>The biggest problem from the start is humanity as a species only got to the level we have not because we are kind to each other and learned from each other, but because we kill any and everything we fear. Humans have been traced to the rise of mammals and at the time surviving with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Megafauna" title="wikipedia.org">mega-fauna</a> [wikipedia.org]. While some mega-fauna do survive, most of them are gone and the majority being the ones that would kill humans. Some died of natural selection, but the common belief is that most are gone because we killed them. Fear of the unknown causes people to panic and panic leads to violence. We started near the lower ranks of the food chain. Now we have no equal at the top of the chain.</p><p>This show of history is also not limited to humans verse animals that cannot be reasoned with. We have the <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic\_burn2.htm" title="religioustolerance.org"> burning times where people killed 'evil witches'</a> [religioustolerance.org], slavery of different people (black slavery is the most commonly thought of, but others like Herbrew slaves to the Egyptions, ect...), KKK killing minorities, acts of genocide, other acts/groups of racism/religious intolerance, ect...</p><p>Now lets take a whole species that in theory can be communicated with, might be a threat, and is truely unknown in abilities. Combine this with an inability to truly understand their underlying motives to interact with us and see how people act. History makes me lean toward one hell of a mob-like answer.</p><p>Then again, always a chance I'm wrong and it can become a wonderful and peaceful outcome. You never know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point .
The mere \ _finding \ _ of an ET would be \ _dramatic \ _ for our civilization .
Think of all the things that would change ( not all religious ) .If we can ever \ _prove \ _ we 're not alone out here , I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments .
I mean , honestly , if we know there is another alien life out there , that we could potentially communicate with , how many stupid squabbles would end ? Right now , we only worry about ourselves because , well , that 's all there is to worry about .
The prospect of learning from another civilization , or even just being afraid and try to " defend " ourselves from them ( sad , but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that ) could be utterly revolutionary.Then again , so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling.Only problem is , you seem to believe that people would treat aliens as friendly equals .
History shows that it wo n't be anywhere as clean and simple as that .
You do mention that we might just be afraid and try to 'defend ' ourselves from them.The biggest problem from the start is humanity as a species only got to the level we have not because we are kind to each other and learned from each other , but because we kill any and everything we fear .
Humans have been traced to the rise of mammals and at the time surviving with the mega-fauna [ wikipedia.org ] .
While some mega-fauna do survive , most of them are gone and the majority being the ones that would kill humans .
Some died of natural selection , but the common belief is that most are gone because we killed them .
Fear of the unknown causes people to panic and panic leads to violence .
We started near the lower ranks of the food chain .
Now we have no equal at the top of the chain.This show of history is also not limited to humans verse animals that can not be reasoned with .
We have the burning times where people killed 'evil witches ' [ religioustolerance.org ] , slavery of different people ( black slavery is the most commonly thought of , but others like Herbrew slaves to the Egyptions , ect... ) , KKK killing minorities , acts of genocide , other acts/groups of racism/religious intolerance , ect...Now lets take a whole species that in theory can be communicated with , might be a threat , and is truely unknown in abilities .
Combine this with an inability to truly understand their underlying motives to interact with us and see how people act .
History makes me lean toward one hell of a mob-like answer.Then again , always a chance I 'm wrong and it can become a wonderful and peaceful outcome .
You never know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see lots of posts that seem to miss the point.
The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.
Think of all the things that would change (not all religious).If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.
I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end?Right now, we only worry about ourselves because, well, that's all there is to worry about.
The prospect of learning from another civilization, or even just being afraid and try to "defend" ourselves from them (sad, but you never know what spin governments would put on a finding like that) could be utterly revolutionary.Then again, so many people would dis-believe due to religious and/or conspiratorial reasons would probably be mind boggling.Only problem is, you seem to believe that people would treat aliens as friendly equals.
History shows that it won't be anywhere as clean and simple as that.
You do mention that we might just be afraid and try to 'defend' ourselves from them.The biggest problem from the start is humanity as a species only got to the level we have not because we are kind to each other and learned from each other, but because we kill any and everything we fear.
Humans have been traced to the rise of mammals and at the time surviving with the mega-fauna [wikipedia.org].
While some mega-fauna do survive, most of them are gone and the majority being the ones that would kill humans.
Some died of natural selection, but the common belief is that most are gone because we killed them.
Fear of the unknown causes people to panic and panic leads to violence.
We started near the lower ranks of the food chain.
Now we have no equal at the top of the chain.This show of history is also not limited to humans verse animals that cannot be reasoned with.
We have the  burning times where people killed 'evil witches' [religioustolerance.org], slavery of different people (black slavery is the most commonly thought of, but others like Herbrew slaves to the Egyptions, ect...), KKK killing minorities, acts of genocide, other acts/groups of racism/religious intolerance, ect...Now lets take a whole species that in theory can be communicated with, might be a threat, and is truely unknown in abilities.
Combine this with an inability to truly understand their underlying motives to interact with us and see how people act.
History makes me lean toward one hell of a mob-like answer.Then again, always a chance I'm wrong and it can become a wonderful and peaceful outcome.
You never know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477652</id>
	<title>Re:Patience!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268583060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out the site for Project Camelot. Actually go to their You Tube account and you will find an extensive amount of interviews that are mind-blowing. I spent about 2 weeks watching every single interview. It was fascinating. Also look into the Disclosure Project. Another good source for understanding the truth about ETs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out the site for Project Camelot .
Actually go to their You Tube account and you will find an extensive amount of interviews that are mind-blowing .
I spent about 2 weeks watching every single interview .
It was fascinating .
Also look into the Disclosure Project .
Another good source for understanding the truth about ETs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out the site for Project Camelot.
Actually go to their You Tube account and you will find an extensive amount of interviews that are mind-blowing.
I spent about 2 weeks watching every single interview.
It was fascinating.
Also look into the Disclosure Project.
Another good source for understanding the truth about ETs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476446</id>
	<title>God and angels</title>
	<author>Trivial Solutions</author>
	<datestamp>1268574120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>E. T. ?  Yawn.  E.T.'s been around for millinium.</htmltext>
<tokenext>E. T. ?
Yawn. E.T .
's been around for millinium .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>E. T. ?
Yawn.  E.T.
's been around for millinium.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479522</id>
	<title>Time to rethink and expand the search?</title>
	<author>Clueless Nick</author>
	<datestamp>1268649180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Search for Extraterrestrial Idiocy.  It will work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Search for Extraterrestrial Idiocy .
It will work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Search for Extraterrestrial Idiocy.
It will work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482378</id>
	<title>In other news...</title>
	<author>darkvizier</author>
	<datestamp>1268670180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Life on Earth is now 4.8 Billion years old and no one's found us yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Life on Earth is now 4.8 Billion years old and no one 's found us yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Life on Earth is now 4.8 Billion years old and no one's found us yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480400</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>bkeahl</author>
	<datestamp>1268658120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As much as I'd like for the discovery of life "out there" directly improving our lives, I'm afraid we can't underestimate human-kind's ability to be short-sighted.  Think of every petty dictator who would like to have an "in" with the technology of an advanced alien civilization.  You know, how many soldiers could one man with a "phaser" kill?<br> <br>
Yeah, I know, a big stretch from an intergalactic hello to actual physical contact.  But, I can see the mad dash by would-be-world-dictators to get plans for the new ultimate weapon in return for being the "Governor" of a new colonial planet of the alien culture.<br> <br>
I don't by the expansion of consciousness argument.  If we're going to have an enlightened view of sharing our universe with aliens we'll need to end our squabbles so we don't sound like savages when we communicate with them.

Your concern about needing to "defend" ourselves against aliens would probably be our first response.  Actually, it's probably a legitimate function of government to initiate steps to protect us from an attack, wherever it comes from. Just so long as neither they or us accidentally misunderstand a "hello" for a "you're momma's ugly and dresses you funny"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).

Interestingly, many Christian Conservatives I know are comfortable with the idea of life "out there".  Those who are more versed in the Bible have pointed out that certain language in Genesis (I think) would leave one to infer there are other planets with life on them.  Just so long as they aren't red with pointed ears and a spade tail things ought to go swimmingly with them!</htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I 'd like for the discovery of life " out there " directly improving our lives , I 'm afraid we ca n't underestimate human-kind 's ability to be short-sighted .
Think of every petty dictator who would like to have an " in " with the technology of an advanced alien civilization .
You know , how many soldiers could one man with a " phaser " kill ?
Yeah , I know , a big stretch from an intergalactic hello to actual physical contact .
But , I can see the mad dash by would-be-world-dictators to get plans for the new ultimate weapon in return for being the " Governor " of a new colonial planet of the alien culture .
I do n't by the expansion of consciousness argument .
If we 're going to have an enlightened view of sharing our universe with aliens we 'll need to end our squabbles so we do n't sound like savages when we communicate with them .
Your concern about needing to " defend " ourselves against aliens would probably be our first response .
Actually , it 's probably a legitimate function of government to initiate steps to protect us from an attack , wherever it comes from .
Just so long as neither they or us accidentally misunderstand a " hello " for a " you 're momma 's ugly and dresses you funny " : ) .
Interestingly , many Christian Conservatives I know are comfortable with the idea of life " out there " .
Those who are more versed in the Bible have pointed out that certain language in Genesis ( I think ) would leave one to infer there are other planets with life on them .
Just so long as they are n't red with pointed ears and a spade tail things ought to go swimmingly with them !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I'd like for the discovery of life "out there" directly improving our lives, I'm afraid we can't underestimate human-kind's ability to be short-sighted.
Think of every petty dictator who would like to have an "in" with the technology of an advanced alien civilization.
You know, how many soldiers could one man with a "phaser" kill?
Yeah, I know, a big stretch from an intergalactic hello to actual physical contact.
But, I can see the mad dash by would-be-world-dictators to get plans for the new ultimate weapon in return for being the "Governor" of a new colonial planet of the alien culture.
I don't by the expansion of consciousness argument.
If we're going to have an enlightened view of sharing our universe with aliens we'll need to end our squabbles so we don't sound like savages when we communicate with them.
Your concern about needing to "defend" ourselves against aliens would probably be our first response.
Actually, it's probably a legitimate function of government to initiate steps to protect us from an attack, wherever it comes from.
Just so long as neither they or us accidentally misunderstand a "hello" for a "you're momma's ugly and dresses you funny" :).
Interestingly, many Christian Conservatives I know are comfortable with the idea of life "out there".
Those who are more versed in the Bible have pointed out that certain language in Genesis (I think) would leave one to infer there are other planets with life on them.
Just so long as they aren't red with pointed ears and a spade tail things ought to go swimmingly with them!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476284</id>
	<title>We are the only ones</title>
	<author>zaax</author>
	<datestamp>1268572980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place. We are the First Ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place .
We are the First Ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look how difficult it was to get here in the first place.
We are the First Ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477060</id>
	<title>Evidence is here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268577960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is already enough evidence for a foreign intelligence, <i>here on earth</i>. Yes, it is no so-called "hard evidence", but in its entirety the evidences are just overwhelming.</p><p>You want to see it? There you go:</p><p>But before you say that all UFOs can or could be explained as natural phenomenons or secret aircrafts or any other explanation besides a foreign intelligence, you really should <b>read</b> these documents. I don't know anybody who has read them and still says "UFOs (as in "foreign intelligence") are not real". Every person who did deep scientific investigation into the UFO phenomenon comes to the conclusion that there must be a foreign intelligence behind some of the mass of UFO cases.</p><p>Documents:</p><ul><li> <a href="http://www.bluebookarchive.org/browse.aspx?Tab=3" title="bluebookarchive.org" rel="nofollow">Project Sign</a> [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1947&ndash;1949)</li><li>'Flying Saucer' Working Party <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20a.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 1</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20b.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 2</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20c.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 3</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20d.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 4</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20e.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 5</a> [nickpope.net], <a href="http://www.nickpope.net/images/ufo\%20report\%20F.jpg" title="nickpope.net" rel="nofollow">Part 6</a> [nickpope.net] (GB, 1950&ndash;1951)</li><li> <a href="http://www.bluebookarchive.org/" title="bluebookarchive.org" rel="nofollow">Project Blue Book</a> [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1951&ndash;1969)</li><li> <a href="http://www.ncas.org/condon/index.html" title="ncas.org" rel="nofollow">Condon Report</a> [ncas.org] (USA, 1969)</li><li> <a href="http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml" title="hessdalen.org" rel="nofollow">Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report</a> [hessdalen.org] (N, 1983)</li><li> <a href="http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse\_18\_2\_teodorani.pdf" title="scientific...ration.org" rel="nofollow">Project EMBLA: A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon</a> [scientific...ration.org]. (I, 2004)</li><li> <a href="http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UnidentifiedAerialPhenomenauapInTheUkAirDefenceRegion.htm" title="www.mod.uk" rel="nofollow">Project Condign</a> [www.mod.uk] (GB, 1996&ndash;2000)</li><li> <a href="http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse\_12\_2\_sturrock.pdf" title="scientific...ration.org" rel="nofollow">Sturrock Panel Report</a> [scientific...ration.org] (USA, 1997; PDF-Datei; 572kB)</li><li>COMETA Report <a href="http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA\_part1.pdf" title="ufoevidence.org" rel="nofollow">Part 1</a> [ufoevidence.org] / <a href="http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA\_part2.pdf" title="ufoevidence.org" rel="nofollow">Part 2</a> [ufoevidence.org] (F, 1999)</li><li>Video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z97WBLxVMww" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">Press conference Disclosure Project&ldquo;</a> [youtube.com] (USA, 2001)</li><li>Video: <a href="http://de.truveo.com/ufo-pressekonferenz-12-november-2007-national/id/3355967271" title="truveo.com" rel="nofollow">Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Ph&#228;nomens&ldquo;</a> [truveo.com] (USA, 2007)</li></ul><p>Archives and data bases</p><ul><li> <a href="http://www.roswellfiles.com/" title="roswellfiles.com" rel="nofollow">The Roswell Files</a> [roswellfiles.com] - page about Roswell with some government documents</li><li> <a href="http://www.ufoevidence.org/" title="ufoevidence.org" rel="nofollow">UFO Evidence</a> [ufoevidence.org] - Collection of documents and articles</li><li> <a href="http://www.prufospolicedatabase.co.uk/" title="prufospoli...base.co.uk" rel="nofollow">The Prufos Police Database</a> [prufospoli...base.co.uk] - database with UFO sightings of british police officers</li><li> <a href="http://community.theblackvault.com/articles/category/UFO-Phenomena" title="theblackvault.com" rel="nofollow">The Black Vault/UFOs</a> [theblackvault.com] &ndash; collection with the help of  <a href="/wikipedia/de/wiki/Freedom\_of\_Information\_Act" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">FOIA</a> [slashdot.org] documents</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is already enough evidence for a foreign intelligence , here on earth .
Yes , it is no so-called " hard evidence " , but in its entirety the evidences are just overwhelming.You want to see it ?
There you go : But before you say that all UFOs can or could be explained as natural phenomenons or secret aircrafts or any other explanation besides a foreign intelligence , you really should read these documents .
I do n't know anybody who has read them and still says " UFOs ( as in " foreign intelligence " ) are not real " .
Every person who did deep scientific investigation into the UFO phenomenon comes to the conclusion that there must be a foreign intelligence behind some of the mass of UFO cases.Documents : Project Sign [ bluebookarchive.org ] ( USA , 1947    1949 ) 'Flying Saucer ' Working Party Part 1 [ nickpope.net ] , Part 2 [ nickpope.net ] , Part 3 [ nickpope.net ] , Part 4 [ nickpope.net ] , Part 5 [ nickpope.net ] , Part 6 [ nickpope.net ] ( GB , 1950    1951 ) Project Blue Book [ bluebookarchive.org ] ( USA , 1951    1969 ) Condon Report [ ncas.org ] ( USA , 1969 ) Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report [ hessdalen.org ] ( N , 1983 ) Project EMBLA : A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon [ scientific...ration.org ] .
( I , 2004 ) Project Condign [ www.mod.uk ] ( GB , 1996    2000 ) Sturrock Panel Report [ scientific...ration.org ] ( USA , 1997 ; PDF-Datei ; 572kB ) COMETA Report Part 1 [ ufoevidence.org ] / Part 2 [ ufoevidence.org ] ( F , 1999 ) Video : Press conference Disclosure Project    [ youtube.com ] ( USA , 2001 ) Video : Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Ph   nomens    [ truveo.com ] ( USA , 2007 ) Archives and data bases The Roswell Files [ roswellfiles.com ] - page about Roswell with some government documents UFO Evidence [ ufoevidence.org ] - Collection of documents and articles The Prufos Police Database [ prufospoli...base.co.uk ] - database with UFO sightings of british police officers The Black Vault/UFOs [ theblackvault.com ]    collection with the help of FOIA [ slashdot.org ] documents</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is already enough evidence for a foreign intelligence, here on earth.
Yes, it is no so-called "hard evidence", but in its entirety the evidences are just overwhelming.You want to see it?
There you go:But before you say that all UFOs can or could be explained as natural phenomenons or secret aircrafts or any other explanation besides a foreign intelligence, you really should read these documents.
I don't know anybody who has read them and still says "UFOs (as in "foreign intelligence") are not real".
Every person who did deep scientific investigation into the UFO phenomenon comes to the conclusion that there must be a foreign intelligence behind some of the mass of UFO cases.Documents: Project Sign [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1947–1949)'Flying Saucer' Working Party Part 1 [nickpope.net], Part 2 [nickpope.net], Part 3 [nickpope.net], Part 4 [nickpope.net], Part 5 [nickpope.net], Part 6 [nickpope.net] (GB, 1950–1951) Project Blue Book [bluebookarchive.org] (USA, 1951–1969) Condon Report [ncas.org] (USA, 1969) Project Hessdalen 1984 - Final Technical Report [hessdalen.org] (N, 1983) Project EMBLA: A Long-Term Scientific Survey of the Hessdalen Phenomenon [scientific...ration.org].
(I, 2004) Project Condign [www.mod.uk] (GB, 1996–2000) Sturrock Panel Report [scientific...ration.org] (USA, 1997; PDF-Datei; 572kB)COMETA Report Part 1 [ufoevidence.org] / Part 2 [ufoevidence.org] (F, 1999)Video: Press conference Disclosure Project“ [youtube.com] (USA, 2001)Video: Press conference Neue Untersuchung des UFO Phänomens“ [truveo.com] (USA, 2007)Archives and data bases The Roswell Files [roswellfiles.com] - page about Roswell with some government documents UFO Evidence [ufoevidence.org] - Collection of documents and articles The Prufos Police Database [prufospoli...base.co.uk] - database with UFO sightings of british police officers The Black Vault/UFOs [theblackvault.com] – collection with the help of  FOIA [slashdot.org] documents</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481640</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>cpghost</author>
	<datestamp>1268666640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?</p></div></blockquote><p>

And where does the idea of a hostile alien come from? Maybe we can divide Humanity in three camps: those who believe aliens are hostile until proven otherwise, those who believe aliens to be friendly until proven otherwise, and those who don't believe aliens exist -- and won't believe it even if they saw them (quoth Comical Ali: "there are no US tanks in Baghdad!" -- oh, and where those tanks actually friendly or hostile? Hmmm...).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from ?
And where does the idea of a hostile alien come from ?
Maybe we can divide Humanity in three camps : those who believe aliens are hostile until proven otherwise , those who believe aliens to be friendly until proven otherwise , and those who do n't believe aliens exist -- and wo n't believe it even if they saw them ( quoth Comical Ali : " there are no US tanks in Baghdad !
" -- oh , and where those tanks actually friendly or hostile ?
Hmmm... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does this idea of the peaceful alien come from?
And where does the idea of a hostile alien come from?
Maybe we can divide Humanity in three camps: those who believe aliens are hostile until proven otherwise, those who believe aliens to be friendly until proven otherwise, and those who don't believe aliens exist -- and won't believe it even if they saw them (quoth Comical Ali: "there are no US tanks in Baghdad!
" -- oh, and where those tanks actually friendly or hostile?
Hmmm...).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477176</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>jonadab</author>
	<datestamp>1268578800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization<br><br>On the contrary, it would have no practical impact at all.  Zilch.<br><br>Bear in mind, even if we knew for certain that there were intelligent and technologically advanced aliens in a certain star system, there is ZERO chance we'd be able to communicate with them to any significant extent.  With a multi-year communication lag, we wouldn't be able to communicate meaningfully with them even if they spoke English and used the same kinds of communications technology we do -- all of which is ridiculously unlikely in the uttermost extreme, even by comic-book standards.<br><br>There would be arguments, but there are arguments about extra-terrestrial life now.  No change there.<br><br>&gt; I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.<br><br>Don't be so naive.  Human nature does not change just because some additional information is thrown into the mix.  Look at everything we've already learned over the last couple of millennia, and yet human nature is just the same as it always was.  When Columbus publicized the existence of what we now call America, did the attitudes of European governments change dramatically?  The only real change was *which* land they wanted to fight over, and even that very small change only happened because the newly discovered land was reachable, which an alien planet wouldn't be.<br><br>But this is really neither here nor there anyway, because we're not talking about a research program that has the potential to actually find anything out.  We're talking about SETI, a program that listens to the radio waves coming from stars.  If there were any intelligible or demonstrably-non-natural radio signals coming from the stars, they would have been noticed anyway, without SETI.  There aren't any.  But SETI keeps listening anyway, because SETI is not interested in *finding* anything.<br><br>I'll say that again, because it bears repeating:  SETI is not intended to *find* anything.  The program is not scientifically but politically motivated.  They don't intend to find anything.  They just want to keep stringing people along, promising that maybe *next* year the program will do something of value.  But it won't.  Ever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The mere \ _finding \ _ of an ET would be \ _dramatic \ _ for our civilizationOn the contrary , it would have no practical impact at all .
Zilch.Bear in mind , even if we knew for certain that there were intelligent and technologically advanced aliens in a certain star system , there is ZERO chance we 'd be able to communicate with them to any significant extent .
With a multi-year communication lag , we would n't be able to communicate meaningfully with them even if they spoke English and used the same kinds of communications technology we do -- all of which is ridiculously unlikely in the uttermost extreme , even by comic-book standards.There would be arguments , but there are arguments about extra-terrestrial life now .
No change there. &gt; I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.Do n't be so naive .
Human nature does not change just because some additional information is thrown into the mix .
Look at everything we 've already learned over the last couple of millennia , and yet human nature is just the same as it always was .
When Columbus publicized the existence of what we now call America , did the attitudes of European governments change dramatically ?
The only real change was * which * land they wanted to fight over , and even that very small change only happened because the newly discovered land was reachable , which an alien planet would n't be.But this is really neither here nor there anyway , because we 're not talking about a research program that has the potential to actually find anything out .
We 're talking about SETI , a program that listens to the radio waves coming from stars .
If there were any intelligible or demonstrably-non-natural radio signals coming from the stars , they would have been noticed anyway , without SETI .
There are n't any .
But SETI keeps listening anyway , because SETI is not interested in * finding * anything.I 'll say that again , because it bears repeating : SETI is not intended to * find * anything .
The program is not scientifically but politically motivated .
They do n't intend to find anything .
They just want to keep stringing people along , promising that maybe * next * year the program will do something of value .
But it wo n't .
Ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilizationOn the contrary, it would have no practical impact at all.
Zilch.Bear in mind, even if we knew for certain that there were intelligent and technologically advanced aliens in a certain star system, there is ZERO chance we'd be able to communicate with them to any significant extent.
With a multi-year communication lag, we wouldn't be able to communicate meaningfully with them even if they spoke English and used the same kinds of communications technology we do -- all of which is ridiculously unlikely in the uttermost extreme, even by comic-book standards.There would be arguments, but there are arguments about extra-terrestrial life now.
No change there.&gt; I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.Don't be so naive.
Human nature does not change just because some additional information is thrown into the mix.
Look at everything we've already learned over the last couple of millennia, and yet human nature is just the same as it always was.
When Columbus publicized the existence of what we now call America, did the attitudes of European governments change dramatically?
The only real change was *which* land they wanted to fight over, and even that very small change only happened because the newly discovered land was reachable, which an alien planet wouldn't be.But this is really neither here nor there anyway, because we're not talking about a research program that has the potential to actually find anything out.
We're talking about SETI, a program that listens to the radio waves coming from stars.
If there were any intelligible or demonstrably-non-natural radio signals coming from the stars, they would have been noticed anyway, without SETI.
There aren't any.
But SETI keeps listening anyway, because SETI is not interested in *finding* anything.I'll say that again, because it bears repeating:  SETI is not intended to *find* anything.
The program is not scientifically but politically motivated.
They don't intend to find anything.
They just want to keep stringing people along, promising that maybe *next* year the program will do something of value.
But it won't.
Ever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31482360</id>
	<title>Just do som simple math</title>
	<author>juasko</author>
	<datestamp>1268670120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Find out the probability of evolution to start. Life to begin from life less matter. Then subtract that with the estimated amount of planets or moons that could sustain life forms.

The result is that the probability of finding life in our wast universe is none. Our Univese is too small.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Find out the probability of evolution to start .
Life to begin from life less matter .
Then subtract that with the estimated amount of planets or moons that could sustain life forms .
The result is that the probability of finding life in our wast universe is none .
Our Univese is too small .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Find out the probability of evolution to start.
Life to begin from life less matter.
Then subtract that with the estimated amount of planets or moons that could sustain life forms.
The result is that the probability of finding life in our wast universe is none.
Our Univese is too small.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481302</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268664600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An encrypted signal would be indistinguishable from an unencrypted one in an unfamiliar format. It would still be detectably modulated. Seti isn't trying to find signals they can understand they're trying to find signals that are artaficial (and an electrical engineer can explain better how you do that but i'm fairly certain it can be done).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An encrypted signal would be indistinguishable from an unencrypted one in an unfamiliar format .
It would still be detectably modulated .
Seti is n't trying to find signals they can understand they 're trying to find signals that are artaficial ( and an electrical engineer can explain better how you do that but i 'm fairly certain it can be done ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An encrypted signal would be indistinguishable from an unencrypted one in an unfamiliar format.
It would still be detectably modulated.
Seti isn't trying to find signals they can understand they're trying to find signals that are artaficial (and an electrical engineer can explain better how you do that but i'm fairly certain it can be done).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476158</id>
	<title>Patience!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth.  Give it some time, people.  And try to become civilized yourselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth .
Give it some time , people .
And try to become civilized yourselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth.
Give it some time, people.
And try to become civilized yourselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476302</id>
	<title>Earth?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268573100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd settle for some signs of intelligent life here on Earth! Deciding not to destroy the planet we depend on would be a great start. So would refraining from killing people for believing in a different fairy tale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd settle for some signs of intelligent life here on Earth !
Deciding not to destroy the planet we depend on would be a great start .
So would refraining from killing people for believing in a different fairy tale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd settle for some signs of intelligent life here on Earth!
Deciding not to destroy the planet we depend on would be a great start.
So would refraining from killing people for believing in a different fairy tale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31485106</id>
	<title>Re:stupid stupid stupid</title>
	<author>BeanThere</author>
	<datestamp>1268681040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we did</p></div><p>No, it assumes (hopes) that at least one civilization might have. They're not trying to find every single civilization out there; the goal is just to find *one* right now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we didNo , it assumes ( hopes ) that at least one civilization might have .
They 're not trying to find every single civilization out there ; the goal is just to find * one * right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it assumes that any civilization should develop technology in the way we didNo, it assumes (hopes) that at least one civilization might have.
They're not trying to find every single civilization out there; the goal is just to find *one* right now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31477424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476874</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268576760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments. <b>I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end</b></p> </div><p>Maybe you could give us some examples?<br>Signs of alien life aren't going to create more potable water, create peace in the middle east, settle the falkan islands dispute, or stabilize oil prices.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we can ever \ _prove \ _ we 're not alone out here , I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments .
I mean , honestly , if we know there is another alien life out there , that we could potentially communicate with , how many stupid squabbles would end Maybe you could give us some examples ? Signs of alien life are n't going to create more potable water , create peace in the middle east , settle the falkan islands dispute , or stabilize oil prices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.
I mean, honestly, if we know there is another alien life out there, that we could potentially communicate with, how many stupid squabbles would end Maybe you could give us some examples?Signs of alien life aren't going to create more potable water, create peace in the middle east, settle the falkan islands dispute, or stabilize oil prices.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479012</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>OrangeCatholic</author>
	<datestamp>1268643600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization. Think of all the things that would change (not all religious)....how many stupid squabbles would end?</p><p>It already happened.  It's called Climate Change.</p><p>You think there aren't people who want to kill ET?  You should watch Avatar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The mere \ _finding \ _ of an ET would be \ _dramatic \ _ for our civilization .
Think of all the things that would change ( not all religious ) ....how many stupid squabbles would end ? It already happened .
It 's called Climate Change.You think there are n't people who want to kill ET ?
You should watch Avatar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;The mere \_finding\_ of an ET would be \_dramatic\_ for our civilization.
Think of all the things that would change (not all religious)....how many stupid squabbles would end?It already happened.
It's called Climate Change.You think there aren't people who want to kill ET?
You should watch Avatar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476634</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>Gerafix</author>
	<datestamp>1268575260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, being optimistic is nice once in a while but you're taking it pretty far. Do you honestly believe the average Homo sapien gives a damn about whether or not we are on the only habitable planet? Seriously. Think about it for a second. Most people care about one thing. Money and sex. Okay, two things, money, sex, and ruthless efficiency. Okay, three things, money, sex, ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. Well anyway I'm quite certain most people would waive off the discovery like it was news of a bit of bad weather and go down to the local strip mall for another pair of $300 sun glasses and complain about the price of gas for their SUV with their bimbo friends over a $10 cup of coffee.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , being optimistic is nice once in a while but you 're taking it pretty far .
Do you honestly believe the average Homo sapien gives a damn about whether or not we are on the only habitable planet ?
Seriously. Think about it for a second .
Most people care about one thing .
Money and sex .
Okay , two things , money , sex , and ruthless efficiency .
Okay , three things , money , sex , ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope .
Well anyway I 'm quite certain most people would waive off the discovery like it was news of a bit of bad weather and go down to the local strip mall for another pair of $ 300 sun glasses and complain about the price of gas for their SUV with their bimbo friends over a $ 10 cup of coffee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, being optimistic is nice once in a while but you're taking it pretty far.
Do you honestly believe the average Homo sapien gives a damn about whether or not we are on the only habitable planet?
Seriously. Think about it for a second.
Most people care about one thing.
Money and sex.
Okay, two things, money, sex, and ruthless efficiency.
Okay, three things, money, sex, ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
Well anyway I'm quite certain most people would waive off the discovery like it was news of a bit of bad weather and go down to the local strip mall for another pair of $300 sun glasses and complain about the price of gas for their SUV with their bimbo friends over a $10 cup of coffee.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476166</id>
	<title>Fermi Paradox anyone??</title>
	<author>Mr804</author>
	<datestamp>1268572200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi\_paradox" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi\_paradox</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi \ _paradox [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi\_paradox [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476256</id>
	<title>maybe they're smarter than we are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe any civilization that's made it through the industrial and electronic ages and all the social, military, population, and environmental upheavals that come along with it, has learned that you don't, like, broadcast your presence information to everyone in the friggin' universe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe any civilization that 's made it through the industrial and electronic ages and all the social , military , population , and environmental upheavals that come along with it , has learned that you do n't , like , broadcast your presence information to everyone in the friggin ' universe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe any civilization that's made it through the industrial and electronic ages and all the social, military, population, and environmental upheavals that come along with it, has learned that you don't, like, broadcast your presence information to everyone in the friggin' universe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476968</id>
	<title>Re:Listening to the Heavens</title>
	<author>tftp</author>
	<datestamp>1268577420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Given that any intelligent god that wasn't born on earth would be (by definition) an extraterrestrial intelligence<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</i>
</p><p>
A god may be[1] an ET, but not every ET has to be a god.
</p><p>
[1] Some gods are postulated to reside on Earth or inside Earth, see Greek gods for example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that any intelligent god that was n't born on earth would be ( by definition ) an extraterrestrial intelligence .. . A god may be [ 1 ] an ET , but not every ET has to be a god .
[ 1 ] Some gods are postulated to reside on Earth or inside Earth , see Greek gods for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Given that any intelligent god that wasn't born on earth would be (by definition) an extraterrestrial intelligence ...

A god may be[1] an ET, but not every ET has to be a god.
[1] Some gods are postulated to reside on Earth or inside Earth, see Greek gods for example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31484942</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>BeanThere</author>
	<datestamp>1268680440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.</p></div><p>Government, schmoverment --- what would be far more exciting is the potential it would have to dramatically change our species' direction for private individuals and companies and explorers etc.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we can ever \ _prove \ _ we 're not alone out here , I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.Government , schmoverment --- what would be far more exciting is the potential it would have to dramatically change our species ' direction for private individuals and companies and explorers etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we can ever \_prove\_ we're not alone out here, I honestly believe it could sway the attitudes and priorities of many governments.Government, schmoverment --- what would be far more exciting is the potential it would have to dramatically change our species' direction for private individuals and companies and explorers etc.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31481176</id>
	<title>Re:I think expectations are too high...</title>
	<author>dgriff</author>
	<datestamp>1268663820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The prospect of learning from another civilization [...] could be utterly revolutionary.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Would the people who first decoded that incoming stream of useful information have the right to patent any resulting inventions? Who would own the copyright on the alien messages?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The prospect of learning from another civilization [ ... ] could be utterly revolutionary .
Would the people who first decoded that incoming stream of useful information have the right to patent any resulting inventions ?
Who would own the copyright on the alien messages ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The prospect of learning from another civilization [...] could be utterly revolutionary.
Would the people who first decoded that incoming stream of useful information have the right to patent any resulting inventions?
Who would own the copyright on the alien messages?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478100</id>
	<title>Quote Charleton Heston @ the beginning of a film:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268586960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><div class="quote"><p><b>"We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth. Give it some time, people. And try to become civilized yourselves."</b> - by Foobar of Borg (690622) on Sunday March 14, @07:10PM (#31476158)</p></div><p>"You who are reading me now are a different breed - I hope, a better one. I leave the 20th century with no regrets. Seen from out here, everything seems different: Time bends, space is boundless... it squashes a man's ego - I feel lonely... That's about it! <b>Tell me though:  Does man, that 'marvel of the universe', that 'glorious paradox' who sent me to the stars, still make war against his brother? Keep his, neighbor's children starving??"</b> - The late, great Charleton Heston as 'Colonel George Taylor' (from "The Planet of the Apes")</p><p>Well, you can all answer that, for me... because, sometimes? I seriously wonder.</p><p>APK</p><p>P.S.=&gt; I tell you right now, that were I aware of us, &amp; because of that awareness + having actually STUDIED us first (&amp; knew how WE are to our own selves even (warring for profit only, killing one another, &amp; far more/worse))? I'd hide! That, or, IF not tell our governments this:</p><p>"YOU stay down there, in your galactic 'tamany hall district' you psychotic lunatics &amp; don't you DARE spread your mental poison out here where OUR children play... should you disregard this, you earth will be reduced to a burned out cinder! Until you change, IF you ever change? You stay put, or else (but, my guess is you'll end yourselves, before that ever occurs)"</p><p>(Sometimes, I wonder if THAT is what the biblical tale of "Adam &amp; Eve" is really, all about - we WE as a species kicked out of a "galactic garden of Eden", because we're SO "f'd up" at such a deep genetic/nature type level, that's irreversible, that we were banned out? Think about it...)</p><p>Now, also:</p><p>Due to satellite communications beaming "downward/inward" (vs. outward as we have been doing for a couple centuries now (soon to stop soon probably IF my ideas are correct)) Well - you only "hear" civilizations like ours, for a LIMITED TIMEFRAME anyhow (those that use radio that is).</p><p>I say that, because "loud" outbound radio transmissions eventually cease due to things like satellites &amp; closed circuits, &amp; go "inward/planetbound" (vs. constantly outwardly radiating sends as we have been doing), &amp; then?</p><p>THEN, you "sent your soul through the invisible" &amp; no longer can be "seen/heard" anymore by others in the cosmos... apk</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth .
Give it some time , people .
And try to become civilized yourselves .
" - by Foobar of Borg ( 690622 ) on Sunday March 14 , @ 07 : 10PM ( # 31476158 ) " You who are reading me now are a different breed - I hope , a better one .
I leave the 20th century with no regrets .
Seen from out here , everything seems different : Time bends , space is boundless... it squashes a man 's ego - I feel lonely... That 's about it !
Tell me though : Does man , that 'marvel of the universe ' , that 'glorious paradox ' who sent me to the stars , still make war against his brother ?
Keep his , neighbor 's children starving ? ?
" - The late , great Charleton Heston as 'Colonel George Taylor ' ( from " The Planet of the Apes " ) Well , you can all answer that , for me... because , sometimes ?
I seriously wonder.APKP.S. = &gt; I tell you right now , that were I aware of us , &amp; because of that awareness + having actually STUDIED us first ( &amp; knew how WE are to our own selves even ( warring for profit only , killing one another , &amp; far more/worse ) ) ?
I 'd hide !
That , or , IF not tell our governments this : " YOU stay down there , in your galactic 'tamany hall district ' you psychotic lunatics &amp; do n't you DARE spread your mental poison out here where OUR children play... should you disregard this , you earth will be reduced to a burned out cinder !
Until you change , IF you ever change ?
You stay put , or else ( but , my guess is you 'll end yourselves , before that ever occurs ) " ( Sometimes , I wonder if THAT is what the biblical tale of " Adam &amp; Eve " is really , all about - we WE as a species kicked out of a " galactic garden of Eden " , because we 're SO " f 'd up " at such a deep genetic/nature type level , that 's irreversible , that we were banned out ?
Think about it... ) Now , also : Due to satellite communications beaming " downward/inward " ( vs. outward as we have been doing for a couple centuries now ( soon to stop soon probably IF my ideas are correct ) ) Well - you only " hear " civilizations like ours , for a LIMITED TIMEFRAME anyhow ( those that use radio that is ) .I say that , because " loud " outbound radio transmissions eventually cease due to things like satellites &amp; closed circuits , &amp; go " inward/planetbound " ( vs. constantly outwardly radiating sends as we have been doing ) , &amp; then ? THEN , you " sent your soul through the invisible " &amp; no longer can be " seen/heard " anymore by others in the cosmos... apk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We are trying to find signs of intelligent life off the Earth.
Give it some time, people.
And try to become civilized yourselves.
" - by Foobar of Borg (690622) on Sunday March 14, @07:10PM (#31476158)"You who are reading me now are a different breed - I hope, a better one.
I leave the 20th century with no regrets.
Seen from out here, everything seems different: Time bends, space is boundless... it squashes a man's ego - I feel lonely... That's about it!
Tell me though:  Does man, that 'marvel of the universe', that 'glorious paradox' who sent me to the stars, still make war against his brother?
Keep his, neighbor's children starving??
" - The late, great Charleton Heston as 'Colonel George Taylor' (from "The Planet of the Apes")Well, you can all answer that, for me... because, sometimes?
I seriously wonder.APKP.S.=&gt; I tell you right now, that were I aware of us, &amp; because of that awareness + having actually STUDIED us first (&amp; knew how WE are to our own selves even (warring for profit only, killing one another, &amp; far more/worse))?
I'd hide!
That, or, IF not tell our governments this:"YOU stay down there, in your galactic 'tamany hall district' you psychotic lunatics &amp; don't you DARE spread your mental poison out here where OUR children play... should you disregard this, you earth will be reduced to a burned out cinder!
Until you change, IF you ever change?
You stay put, or else (but, my guess is you'll end yourselves, before that ever occurs)"(Sometimes, I wonder if THAT is what the biblical tale of "Adam &amp; Eve" is really, all about - we WE as a species kicked out of a "galactic garden of Eden", because we're SO "f'd up" at such a deep genetic/nature type level, that's irreversible, that we were banned out?
Think about it...)Now, also:Due to satellite communications beaming "downward/inward" (vs. outward as we have been doing for a couple centuries now (soon to stop soon probably IF my ideas are correct)) Well - you only "hear" civilizations like ours, for a LIMITED TIMEFRAME anyhow (those that use radio that is).I say that, because "loud" outbound radio transmissions eventually cease due to things like satellites &amp; closed circuits, &amp; go "inward/planetbound" (vs. constantly outwardly radiating sends as we have been doing), &amp; then?THEN, you "sent your soul through the invisible" &amp; no longer can be "seen/heard" anymore by others in the cosmos... apk
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31479280</id>
	<title>Re:Too short a window</title>
	<author>davaguco</author>
	<datestamp>1268646780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think if I were an advanced civilisation I would use neutrinos to communicate, at the very least (or possibly some other thing we haven't discovered yet). Very easy to get these light particles across a galaxy without them being stopped by other matter or energy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think if I were an advanced civilisation I would use neutrinos to communicate , at the very least ( or possibly some other thing we have n't discovered yet ) .
Very easy to get these light particles across a galaxy without them being stopped by other matter or energy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think if I were an advanced civilisation I would use neutrinos to communicate, at the very least (or possibly some other thing we haven't discovered yet).
Very easy to get these light particles across a galaxy without them being stopped by other matter or energy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31480158</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is time</title>
	<author>digitalchinky</author>
	<datestamp>1268655660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We are getting more 'noisy' not less.</p><p>Radar, been around for a tad over 100 years now in various forms. These days the world is bathed in it. Not only that, but near on every Radar spills radiation out in to space with a narrow high energy lobe, generally in the kilowatt range, some higher, some lower. Most of this is unintentional, but some of it is done on purpose.</p><p>For sure we are figuring out better ways to pack information in to limited amounts of spectrum, but, and this point seems to escape most people, this efficiency in conveying information does not mean we are using less radiated power to achieve the end goal. That analogue television station that was pumping out a megawatt still needs to pump out about the same amount of power for its digital transmission to maintain the same coverage area.</p><p>The Clark belt, littered with geo-stationary satellites. Every functional satellite has many (many) thousands of signals present on each transponder - just about every single one of those signals also has a corresponding uplink. This is done using a very narrow beam width, a pencil beam if you will. Uplink power is generally anywhere from milliwatts through to kilowatts. A lot of that signal spills past the satellite. This isn't going away any time soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are getting more 'noisy ' not less.Radar , been around for a tad over 100 years now in various forms .
These days the world is bathed in it .
Not only that , but near on every Radar spills radiation out in to space with a narrow high energy lobe , generally in the kilowatt range , some higher , some lower .
Most of this is unintentional , but some of it is done on purpose.For sure we are figuring out better ways to pack information in to limited amounts of spectrum , but , and this point seems to escape most people , this efficiency in conveying information does not mean we are using less radiated power to achieve the end goal .
That analogue television station that was pumping out a megawatt still needs to pump out about the same amount of power for its digital transmission to maintain the same coverage area.The Clark belt , littered with geo-stationary satellites .
Every functional satellite has many ( many ) thousands of signals present on each transponder - just about every single one of those signals also has a corresponding uplink .
This is done using a very narrow beam width , a pencil beam if you will .
Uplink power is generally anywhere from milliwatts through to kilowatts .
A lot of that signal spills past the satellite .
This is n't going away any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are getting more 'noisy' not less.Radar, been around for a tad over 100 years now in various forms.
These days the world is bathed in it.
Not only that, but near on every Radar spills radiation out in to space with a narrow high energy lobe, generally in the kilowatt range, some higher, some lower.
Most of this is unintentional, but some of it is done on purpose.For sure we are figuring out better ways to pack information in to limited amounts of spectrum, but, and this point seems to escape most people, this efficiency in conveying information does not mean we are using less radiated power to achieve the end goal.
That analogue television station that was pumping out a megawatt still needs to pump out about the same amount of power for its digital transmission to maintain the same coverage area.The Clark belt, littered with geo-stationary satellites.
Every functional satellite has many (many) thousands of signals present on each transponder - just about every single one of those signals also has a corresponding uplink.
This is done using a very narrow beam width, a pencil beam if you will.
Uplink power is generally anywhere from milliwatts through to kilowatts.
A lot of that signal spills past the satellite.
This isn't going away any time soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31478216</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268588520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think you understand.</p><p>The range at which SETI can detect signals from other civilisations has nothing to do with the 50-year mark.</p><p>If someone 1500 lightyears away sent a message from their homeworld 1475 years ago that was powerful enough to reach us, we would have hopefully been able to detect it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think you understand.The range at which SETI can detect signals from other civilisations has nothing to do with the 50-year mark.If someone 1500 lightyears away sent a message from their homeworld 1475 years ago that was powerful enough to reach us , we would have hopefully been able to detect it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think you understand.The range at which SETI can detect signals from other civilisations has nothing to do with the 50-year mark.If someone 1500 lightyears away sent a message from their homeworld 1475 years ago that was powerful enough to reach us, we would have hopefully been able to detect it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_2219246.31476276</id>
	<title>Fast reading</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268572920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damn I thought the title said YETI is 50 years old;no sign of IT.</p><p>I need new contacts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn I thought the title said YETI is 50 years old ; no sign of IT.I need new contacts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn I thought the title said YETI is 50 years old;no sign of IT.I need new contacts.</sentencetext>
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