<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_14_1757213</id>
	<title>What Aspects of Open Source Projects Do You Avoid?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1268596140000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>paulproteus writes <i>"I'm a Debian developer and a part-time contributor to a few smaller projects. I do a lot of free software-y and open source-y things. Sometimes, though, I <em>don't</em> do them. I figure some other Slashdotters might have similar hang-ups &mdash; we contribute to a project, but there are parts that we really dread thinking about. So I wrote <a href="https://openhatch.org/blog/2010/what-are-you-avoiding-working-on/">a post about having these hang-ups</a>, and I made a <a href="http://openhatch.org/+projects/">place on the web to share how others can help</a> your project. What are the parts that, in <em>your</em> projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>paulproteus writes " I 'm a Debian developer and a part-time contributor to a few smaller projects .
I do a lot of free software-y and open source-y things .
Sometimes , though , I do n't do them .
I figure some other Slashdotters might have similar hang-ups    we contribute to a project , but there are parts that we really dread thinking about .
So I wrote a post about having these hang-ups , and I made a place on the web to share how others can help your project .
What are the parts that , in your projects , you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>paulproteus writes "I'm a Debian developer and a part-time contributor to a few smaller projects.
I do a lot of free software-y and open source-y things.
Sometimes, though, I don't do them.
I figure some other Slashdotters might have similar hang-ups — we contribute to a project, but there are parts that we really dread thinking about.
So I wrote a post about having these hang-ups, and I made a place on the web to share how others can help your project.
What are the parts that, in your projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474102</id>
	<title>The GPL.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268600280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not want to be associated in any way with the crowing cocks like rms who push "software freedom" by restricting the ability of others to use code as they see fit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not want to be associated in any way with the crowing cocks like rms who push " software freedom " by restricting the ability of others to use code as they see fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not want to be associated in any way with the crowing cocks like rms who push "software freedom" by restricting the ability of others to use code as they see fit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475106</id>
	<title>support and testing for Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268564280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On a related note, the thing I really dread is support and testing for Windows. I have an open-source app I wrote that is cross-platform. I use it on Linux, but it also runs on Windows. Since I don't own a Windows machine and don't know anything about Windows, it makes it a real pain to test on Windows or reproduce bugs that only occur on Windows. Packaging for Windows is also a hassle. Of course there is wine, but testing in wine isn't the same thing as testing on a real Windows box. And even if I do succeed in reproducing a Windows-specific bug in wine, that doesn't mean that I understand enough about the Windows environment and APIs to be able to fix it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On a related note , the thing I really dread is support and testing for Windows .
I have an open-source app I wrote that is cross-platform .
I use it on Linux , but it also runs on Windows .
Since I do n't own a Windows machine and do n't know anything about Windows , it makes it a real pain to test on Windows or reproduce bugs that only occur on Windows .
Packaging for Windows is also a hassle .
Of course there is wine , but testing in wine is n't the same thing as testing on a real Windows box .
And even if I do succeed in reproducing a Windows-specific bug in wine , that does n't mean that I understand enough about the Windows environment and APIs to be able to fix it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a related note, the thing I really dread is support and testing for Windows.
I have an open-source app I wrote that is cross-platform.
I use it on Linux, but it also runs on Windows.
Since I don't own a Windows machine and don't know anything about Windows, it makes it a real pain to test on Windows or reproduce bugs that only occur on Windows.
Packaging for Windows is also a hassle.
Of course there is wine, but testing in wine isn't the same thing as testing on a real Windows box.
And even if I do succeed in reproducing a Windows-specific bug in wine, that doesn't mean that I understand enough about the Windows environment and APIs to be able to fix it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474912</id>
	<title>Two things</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268563080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For me it is anything to do with the website and re-writes. I really don't like re-doing something, whether I originally wrote it or someone else did. I'll improve and tweak existing code until the cows come home, but wiping out working code and re-writing it annoys me. For some reason some open source projects seem to feel the need to do a complete re-write every few releases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For me it is anything to do with the website and re-writes .
I really do n't like re-doing something , whether I originally wrote it or someone else did .
I 'll improve and tweak existing code until the cows come home , but wiping out working code and re-writing it annoys me .
For some reason some open source projects seem to feel the need to do a complete re-write every few releases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For me it is anything to do with the website and re-writes.
I really don't like re-doing something, whether I originally wrote it or someone else did.
I'll improve and tweak existing code until the cows come home, but wiping out working code and re-writing it annoys me.
For some reason some open source projects seem to feel the need to do a complete re-write every few releases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474710</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1268562000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right that most OSS developers don't want to deal with nagging simple questions, and frankly they shouldn't have to.  In a large enough project or distro channel, plenty of other people will be happy to answer the annoying repetitive questions for you.</p><p>But it's wrong to suggest that developers should avoid IRC entirely.  Unless you want your project to remain just a hobby, useful to no one but yourself and a few others, it's a good idea to listen to actual users every once in a while.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right that most OSS developers do n't want to deal with nagging simple questions , and frankly they should n't have to .
In a large enough project or distro channel , plenty of other people will be happy to answer the annoying repetitive questions for you.But it 's wrong to suggest that developers should avoid IRC entirely .
Unless you want your project to remain just a hobby , useful to no one but yourself and a few others , it 's a good idea to listen to actual users every once in a while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right that most OSS developers don't want to deal with nagging simple questions, and frankly they shouldn't have to.
In a large enough project or distro channel, plenty of other people will be happy to answer the annoying repetitive questions for you.But it's wrong to suggest that developers should avoid IRC entirely.
Unless you want your project to remain just a hobby, useful to no one but yourself and a few others, it's a good idea to listen to actual users every once in a while.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474170</id>
	<title>try this</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1268557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't bother with IRC. Insist on email instead.</p><p>Then train a bayesian classifier (bogofilter) to answer the questions for you.</p><p>You just have to remember Bayesian classifiers are good at yes/no classifications (e.g. spam/notspam), so I have several corpuses and test incoming emails serially against them, tagging with the ones which match. Then process the email according to the tag. FAQ should be fairly easy. Use a procmail rule to answer, "thanks for your question, please have a look here".<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't bother with IRC .
Insist on email instead.Then train a bayesian classifier ( bogofilter ) to answer the questions for you.You just have to remember Bayesian classifiers are good at yes/no classifications ( e.g .
spam/notspam ) , so I have several corpuses and test incoming emails serially against them , tagging with the ones which match .
Then process the email according to the tag .
FAQ should be fairly easy .
Use a procmail rule to answer , " thanks for your question , please have a look here " .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't bother with IRC.
Insist on email instead.Then train a bayesian classifier (bogofilter) to answer the questions for you.You just have to remember Bayesian classifiers are good at yes/no classifications (e.g.
spam/notspam), so I have several corpuses and test incoming emails serially against them, tagging with the ones which match.
Then process the email according to the tag.
FAQ should be fairly easy.
Use a procmail rule to answer, "thanks for your question, please have a look here".
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474888</id>
	<title>Documentation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268563020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody likes writing documentation......poor documentation is the most common critiscism of an IT project at completion.</p><p>I mean...it's open source so the users can just read the code right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody likes writing documentation......poor documentation is the most common critiscism of an IT project at completion.I mean...it 's open source so the users can just read the code right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody likes writing documentation......poor documentation is the most common critiscism of an IT project at completion.I mean...it's open source so the users can just read the code right?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474650</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>HungryHobo</author>
	<datestamp>1268561580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It surprises me a little in a way.<br>i find installing things using a package manager in linux far simpler than installing something in windows but they need to capitalise on that more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It surprises me a little in a way.i find installing things using a package manager in linux far simpler than installing something in windows but they need to capitalise on that more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It surprises me a little in a way.i find installing things using a package manager in linux far simpler than installing something in windows but they need to capitalise on that more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31492570</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>mr\_mischief</author>
	<datestamp>1268771100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So that's why <a href="http://www.flexerasoftware.com/products/installshield/editions.htm" title="flexerasoftware.com">InstallShield</a> [flexerasoftware.com], <a href="http://www.componentsource.com/products/wise-installation-studio/index.html" title="componentsource.com">Wise Installation Studio</a> [componentsource.com], and so many other installation systems are all over pretty much every Windows system! Thanks! I was starting to think that when a developer paid hundreds or thousands of dollars per seat for an installer system that meant it wasn't a standard part of the OS, but you've cleared that up for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So that 's why InstallShield [ flexerasoftware.com ] , Wise Installation Studio [ componentsource.com ] , and so many other installation systems are all over pretty much every Windows system !
Thanks ! I was starting to think that when a developer paid hundreds or thousands of dollars per seat for an installer system that meant it was n't a standard part of the OS , but you 've cleared that up for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So that's why InstallShield [flexerasoftware.com], Wise Installation Studio [componentsource.com], and so many other installation systems are all over pretty much every Windows system!
Thanks! I was starting to think that when a developer paid hundreds or thousands of dollars per seat for an installer system that meant it wasn't a standard part of the OS, but you've cleared that up for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475236</id>
	<title>Re:Trivia</title>
	<author>paulproteus</author>
	<datestamp>1268564940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HTTPS is a nicety for our users. End-to-end cryptography is a great thing; let's have more of it!</p><p>I happen to like alpine and text-mode email reading in general.</p><p>When you say this makes you wonder, do you just mean I'm clearly some sort of bizarro nutjob? (Nothing to wonder -- that one's probably true.) Or is there something specific you wonder? If so, say what it is, and I can possibly answer. (-:</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HTTPS is a nicety for our users .
End-to-end cryptography is a great thing ; let 's have more of it ! I happen to like alpine and text-mode email reading in general.When you say this makes you wonder , do you just mean I 'm clearly some sort of bizarro nutjob ?
( Nothing to wonder -- that one 's probably true .
) Or is there something specific you wonder ?
If so , say what it is , and I can possibly answer .
( - :</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HTTPS is a nicety for our users.
End-to-end cryptography is a great thing; let's have more of it!I happen to like alpine and text-mode email reading in general.When you say this makes you wonder, do you just mean I'm clearly some sort of bizarro nutjob?
(Nothing to wonder -- that one's probably true.
) Or is there something specific you wonder?
If so, say what it is, and I can possibly answer.
(-:</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31480726</id>
	<title>Re:The aspect of open source projects I avoid is</title>
	<author>nicks,nicks,nicks!</author>
	<datestamp>1268661180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...asking the main devs for help to START contributing. Like every one of them came into the world coding real life code in all the languages. Well, hello people, some people need a friendly welcome and less ego on part of you guys. KDE &gt; GNOME on that count.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...asking the main devs for help to START contributing .
Like every one of them came into the world coding real life code in all the languages .
Well , hello people , some people need a friendly welcome and less ego on part of you guys .
KDE &gt; GNOME on that count .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...asking the main devs for help to START contributing.
Like every one of them came into the world coding real life code in all the languages.
Well, hello people, some people need a friendly welcome and less ego on part of you guys.
KDE &gt; GNOME on that count.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474392</id>
	<title>OF COURSE you don't put GPL code on your projects</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268559540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>unless you want your project to become GPL. that's the rule. how hard is it to follow?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>unless you want your project to become GPL .
that 's the rule .
how hard is it to follow ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unless you want your project to become GPL.
that's the rule.
how hard is it to follow?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31487494</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268646420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linux isn't ready for the desktop. It's just almost ready. (ps. I'm a Linux user)</p><p>Why you might ask?</p><p>Well for starters, on the desktop you need a nice competitive GUI.<br>GNOME is stable and functional... but it's still stuck in 2004... it's a formidable opponent to Windows XP, but no match for Windows 7 or the current incarnation of OS X.<br>KDE is just awesome... but it's still a lot more buggy and a lot more unstable than GNOME, Windows and OS X.</p><p>Then come the incompatibility issues:</p><p>* Package management:<br>Yes multiple package managers and multiple repositories almost as many as distros mean freedom of choice... but couldn't we settle to a standard package format and directory structure so that developers that don't get their apps included in whatever distro's repo can just package for Linux rather than for Ubuntu 8.04, Ubuntu 9.10, Debian Lenny, OpenSuse 11.3, Fedora 12, Arch, Mandriva 2009 and still miss more obscure distros?</p><p>* Gui toolkit:<br>Why isn't there a single toolkit for building GUI Apps? Why do GNOME apps look ugly in KDE? At least KDE/Qt emulates the look of GNOME/Gtk quite well but it's not true vice-versa... But just as java uses native widgets when available why can't either toolkit use the other's widgets when the other is the dominating one on the platform?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux is n't ready for the desktop .
It 's just almost ready .
( ps. I 'm a Linux user ) Why you might ask ? Well for starters , on the desktop you need a nice competitive GUI.GNOME is stable and functional... but it 's still stuck in 2004... it 's a formidable opponent to Windows XP , but no match for Windows 7 or the current incarnation of OS X.KDE is just awesome... but it 's still a lot more buggy and a lot more unstable than GNOME , Windows and OS X.Then come the incompatibility issues : * Package management : Yes multiple package managers and multiple repositories almost as many as distros mean freedom of choice... but could n't we settle to a standard package format and directory structure so that developers that do n't get their apps included in whatever distro 's repo can just package for Linux rather than for Ubuntu 8.04 , Ubuntu 9.10 , Debian Lenny , OpenSuse 11.3 , Fedora 12 , Arch , Mandriva 2009 and still miss more obscure distros ?
* Gui toolkit : Why is n't there a single toolkit for building GUI Apps ?
Why do GNOME apps look ugly in KDE ?
At least KDE/Qt emulates the look of GNOME/Gtk quite well but it 's not true vice-versa... But just as java uses native widgets when available why ca n't either toolkit use the other 's widgets when the other is the dominating one on the platform ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux isn't ready for the desktop.
It's just almost ready.
(ps. I'm a Linux user)Why you might ask?Well for starters, on the desktop you need a nice competitive GUI.GNOME is stable and functional... but it's still stuck in 2004... it's a formidable opponent to Windows XP, but no match for Windows 7 or the current incarnation of OS X.KDE is just awesome... but it's still a lot more buggy and a lot more unstable than GNOME, Windows and OS X.Then come the incompatibility issues:* Package management:Yes multiple package managers and multiple repositories almost as many as distros mean freedom of choice... but couldn't we settle to a standard package format and directory structure so that developers that don't get their apps included in whatever distro's repo can just package for Linux rather than for Ubuntu 8.04, Ubuntu 9.10, Debian Lenny, OpenSuse 11.3, Fedora 12, Arch, Mandriva 2009 and still miss more obscure distros?
* Gui toolkit:Why isn't there a single toolkit for building GUI Apps?
Why do GNOME apps look ugly in KDE?
At least KDE/Qt emulates the look of GNOME/Gtk quite well but it's not true vice-versa... But just as java uses native widgets when available why can't either toolkit use the other's widgets when the other is the dominating one on the platform?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474468</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268560200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The solution is simple. All you have to do is also license your code under the GPL. Problem Solved. Also, the more GPL code there is, the better.</p><p>(The BSD License is okay, but I wouldn't put anything I made under it.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution is simple .
All you have to do is also license your code under the GPL .
Problem Solved .
Also , the more GPL code there is , the better .
( The BSD License is okay , but I would n't put anything I made under it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution is simple.
All you have to do is also license your code under the GPL.
Problem Solved.
Also, the more GPL code there is, the better.
(The BSD License is okay, but I wouldn't put anything I made under it.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31477606</id>
	<title>as a simple user, not involved in development</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268582700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can tell you what all open-source devs avoid:<br>1- documentation<br>2- usability<br>3- specs<br>4- testing<br>5- debugging<br>6- support</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can tell you what all open-source devs avoid : 1- documentation2- usability3- specs4- testing5- debugging6- support</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can tell you what all open-source devs avoid:1- documentation2- usability3- specs4- testing5- debugging6- support</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475984</id>
	<title>Re:From a user perspective</title>
	<author>Big Jojo</author>
	<datestamp>1268570880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation.</p></div></blockquote><p>

For the developers who can't write well, that's a Good Thing.

On the other hand<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the best developers *can* write well, and *do* spend time on that part of the system.  Since they realize well that a system which isn't (or can't be) explained effectively isn't very useful.

</p><p>I'm not talking about user documentation so much as big picture stuff and reference material.

The skills and processes used to write and improve user documentation, like the skills to develop and tune good user interfaces, are somewhat distinct from the ones involved in system design and architecture.  Npt completely<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but enough so that the folk who are good at any of those tend to be very aware of their personal deficiencies in the other areas.  Sometimes it's just a lack of sympathy (or empathy) with the different audiences.

We've all known folk (or been folk!) who just want to write code.  When that's your mind-set, any user-facing feedback loop will be full of conflict, since the users rarely prioritize code like that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation .
For the developers who ca n't write well , that 's a Good Thing .
On the other hand ... the best developers * can * write well , and * do * spend time on that part of the system .
Since they realize well that a system which is n't ( or ca n't be ) explained effectively is n't very useful .
I 'm not talking about user documentation so much as big picture stuff and reference material .
The skills and processes used to write and improve user documentation , like the skills to develop and tune good user interfaces , are somewhat distinct from the ones involved in system design and architecture .
Npt completely ... but enough so that the folk who are good at any of those tend to be very aware of their personal deficiencies in the other areas .
Sometimes it 's just a lack of sympathy ( or empathy ) with the different audiences .
We 've all known folk ( or been folk !
) who just want to write code .
When that 's your mind-set , any user-facing feedback loop will be full of conflict , since the users rarely prioritize code like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation.
For the developers who can't write well, that's a Good Thing.
On the other hand ... the best developers *can* write well, and *do* spend time on that part of the system.
Since they realize well that a system which isn't (or can't be) explained effectively isn't very useful.
I'm not talking about user documentation so much as big picture stuff and reference material.
The skills and processes used to write and improve user documentation, like the skills to develop and tune good user interfaces, are somewhat distinct from the ones involved in system design and architecture.
Npt completely ... but enough so that the folk who are good at any of those tend to be very aware of their personal deficiencies in the other areas.
Sometimes it's just a lack of sympathy (or empathy) with the different audiences.
We've all known folk (or been folk!
) who just want to write code.
When that's your mind-set, any user-facing feedback loop will be full of conflict, since the users rarely prioritize code like that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474344</id>
	<title>License</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268559120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just copy the code<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just copy the code : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just copy the code :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474908</id>
	<title>Re:An advantage of Closed Source</title>
	<author>RAMMS+EIN</author>
	<datestamp>1268563080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>\%s/open source/volunteer-developed/ig</p><p>Also, paid developers do the tasks they are assigned, but that doesn't mean the tasks get done well. And if they are not assigned a task, paid developers will often not do it (if they did, they would be wasting money, after all).</p><p>So what you see in practice is that, for commercial development, when things get tight, everything besides coding gets dropped, and the code gets sloppy.</p><p>But you are right. Volunteer efforts usually end when the volunteers lose interest. That's usually before a complete solution has been implemented.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>\ % s/open source/volunteer-developed/igAlso , paid developers do the tasks they are assigned , but that does n't mean the tasks get done well .
And if they are not assigned a task , paid developers will often not do it ( if they did , they would be wasting money , after all ) .So what you see in practice is that , for commercial development , when things get tight , everything besides coding gets dropped , and the code gets sloppy.But you are right .
Volunteer efforts usually end when the volunteers lose interest .
That 's usually before a complete solution has been implemented .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>\%s/open source/volunteer-developed/igAlso, paid developers do the tasks they are assigned, but that doesn't mean the tasks get done well.
And if they are not assigned a task, paid developers will often not do it (if they did, they would be wasting money, after all).So what you see in practice is that, for commercial development, when things get tight, everything besides coding gets dropped, and the code gets sloppy.But you are right.
Volunteer efforts usually end when the volunteers lose interest.
That's usually before a complete solution has been implemented.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476160</id>
	<title>Hmm.</title>
	<author>mindstrm</author>
	<datestamp>1268572200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I avoid all the parts where anyone evangelizes any part of it being "open source" or has any sense of entitlement.</p><p>I'll work on my project, or contribute to someone else's if I feel the itch, and that's about it.   If I make my project open source, that's that.</p><p>I dislike OSS nazis who have this hippie "give back" attitude.  I've released  software. Some of it is open-source.  I couldn't give a rat's ass if anyone "gives back"  - I only expect that if you use the software *I*  wrote, you abide by the terms I released it under.... whatever those terms are.</p><p>I don't do a project for the sake of being open-source - I do it because it's interesting, and if I make it open-source, it's because I want to share.  I don't appreciate anyone reading any more than that into it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I avoid all the parts where anyone evangelizes any part of it being " open source " or has any sense of entitlement.I 'll work on my project , or contribute to someone else 's if I feel the itch , and that 's about it .
If I make my project open source , that 's that.I dislike OSS nazis who have this hippie " give back " attitude .
I 've released software .
Some of it is open-source .
I could n't give a rat 's ass if anyone " gives back " - I only expect that if you use the software * I * wrote , you abide by the terms I released it under.... whatever those terms are.I do n't do a project for the sake of being open-source - I do it because it 's interesting , and if I make it open-source , it 's because I want to share .
I do n't appreciate anyone reading any more than that into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I avoid all the parts where anyone evangelizes any part of it being "open source" or has any sense of entitlement.I'll work on my project, or contribute to someone else's if I feel the itch, and that's about it.
If I make my project open source, that's that.I dislike OSS nazis who have this hippie "give back" attitude.
I've released  software.
Some of it is open-source.
I couldn't give a rat's ass if anyone "gives back"  - I only expect that if you use the software *I*  wrote, you abide by the terms I released it under.... whatever those terms are.I don't do a project for the sake of being open-source - I do it because it's interesting, and if I make it open-source, it's because I want to share.
I don't appreciate anyone reading any more than that into it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268557440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey now, we cannot have it both ways.  If we want to push community support, that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over again, especially since a lot of concepts are lost on Windows and Mac OS users -- like the idea of a package manager.  Yes, it may seem like the most obvious question in the entire world, but I frequently get asked things like, "How do I install &lt;some really common package&gt;," and if we are unwilling to answer such basic question, people will just get scared (and subconsciously assume that "Linux is not ready for the desktop").<br> <br>

We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.  In fact, we should being doing it more often.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey now , we can not have it both ways .
If we want to push community support , that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over again , especially since a lot of concepts are lost on Windows and Mac OS users -- like the idea of a package manager .
Yes , it may seem like the most obvious question in the entire world , but I frequently get asked things like , " How do I install , " and if we are unwilling to answer such basic question , people will just get scared ( and subconsciously assume that " Linux is not ready for the desktop " ) .
We may find it annoying , but we absolutely should not avoid it .
In fact , we should being doing it more often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey now, we cannot have it both ways.
If we want to push community support, that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over again, especially since a lot of concepts are lost on Windows and Mac OS users -- like the idea of a package manager.
Yes, it may seem like the most obvious question in the entire world, but I frequently get asked things like, "How do I install ," and if we are unwilling to answer such basic question, people will just get scared (and subconsciously assume that "Linux is not ready for the desktop").
We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.
In fact, we should being doing it more often.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475566</id>
	<title>Open Source Nazis</title>
	<author>Niobe</author>
	<datestamp>1268567400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>What Aspects of Open Source Projects Do I Avoid?


The part where I get yelled at by a developer for filing a bug that I tried diagnose to the best of my ability but didn't mange to fix myself.


Because, as we know, you shouldn't even USE open source software unless you're willing to DEVELOP it as well. Pffft.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What Aspects of Open Source Projects Do I Avoid ?
The part where I get yelled at by a developer for filing a bug that I tried diagnose to the best of my ability but did n't mange to fix myself .
Because , as we know , you should n't even USE open source software unless you 're willing to DEVELOP it as well .
Pffft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What Aspects of Open Source Projects Do I Avoid?
The part where I get yelled at by a developer for filing a bug that I tried diagnose to the best of my ability but didn't mange to fix myself.
Because, as we know, you shouldn't even USE open source software unless you're willing to DEVELOP it as well.
Pffft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31509076</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>dsavage</author>
	<datestamp>1268843220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.  In fact, we should being doing it more often.</p></div><p>While your point is valid... as a sometimes "asker of novice questions," I can tell you that the only thing worse than not getting the answers you need, is being made to feel like crap for asking the question in the first place.  And if someone doesn't want to answer questions, that's usually what comes across, whether it's intended or not.
<br> <br>
Here's a real-life example that happened to a buddy of mine... (noob) "I'm on system (x) running (y) and I've tried (a), (b), and (c)... What do you think I should do?"  (a-hole guru) "Learn to troubleshoot."
<br> <br>
Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't help, I'm just saying that if they don't want to help, they shouldn't... sometimes it helps the open source movement more if some people just stick to whatever it is they do best, and leave the human interaction to those that actually like people.

That's just my $.02, feel free to disregard.
-D</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We may find it annoying , but we absolutely should not avoid it .
In fact , we should being doing it more often.While your point is valid... as a sometimes " asker of novice questions , " I can tell you that the only thing worse than not getting the answers you need , is being made to feel like crap for asking the question in the first place .
And if someone does n't want to answer questions , that 's usually what comes across , whether it 's intended or not .
Here 's a real-life example that happened to a buddy of mine... ( noob ) " I 'm on system ( x ) running ( y ) and I 've tried ( a ) , ( b ) , and ( c ) ... What do you think I should do ?
" ( a-hole guru ) " Learn to troubleshoot .
" Now , I 'm not saying that people should n't help , I 'm just saying that if they do n't want to help , they should n't... sometimes it helps the open source movement more if some people just stick to whatever it is they do best , and leave the human interaction to those that actually like people .
That 's just my $ .02 , feel free to disregard .
-D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.
In fact, we should being doing it more often.While your point is valid... as a sometimes "asker of novice questions," I can tell you that the only thing worse than not getting the answers you need, is being made to feel like crap for asking the question in the first place.
And if someone doesn't want to answer questions, that's usually what comes across, whether it's intended or not.
Here's a real-life example that happened to a buddy of mine... (noob) "I'm on system (x) running (y) and I've tried (a), (b), and (c)... What do you think I should do?
"  (a-hole guru) "Learn to troubleshoot.
"
 
Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't help, I'm just saying that if they don't want to help, they shouldn't... sometimes it helps the open source movement more if some people just stick to whatever it is they do best, and leave the human interaction to those that actually like people.
That's just my $.02, feel free to disregard.
-D
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476458</id>
	<title>That's obvious</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1268574180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The "not getting paid" part. All the rest of it, I'm down with!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " not getting paid " part .
All the rest of it , I 'm down with !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "not getting paid" part.
All the rest of it, I'm down with!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478474</id>
	<title>Re:Adding comments</title>
	<author>einhverfr</author>
	<datestamp>1268592480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I've picked up an open source project that doesn't have comments. There's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does, yet I'm supposed to be fixing it.</p></div></blockquote><p>If the code is a real mess, it is unlikely that comments telling you what it does will be of help.  I HATE seeing comments like:<br># now we save the user</p><p>or</p><p># Checking roles....</p><p>It's much better, if you think a comment is required to explain WHY a certain choice was made.  For example:</p><p># I am making the assumption here that the user is always an employee.  I think this is safe.  If not, we might need to revisit....</p><p>Of course, good API docs (what every function does, etc) is a different matter.  These can be in comments, POD, or the like.  These are often helpful for test case construction as well.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've picked up an open source project that does n't have comments .
There 's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does , yet I 'm supposed to be fixing it.If the code is a real mess , it is unlikely that comments telling you what it does will be of help .
I HATE seeing comments like : # now we save the useror # Checking roles....It 's much better , if you think a comment is required to explain WHY a certain choice was made .
For example : # I am making the assumption here that the user is always an employee .
I think this is safe .
If not , we might need to revisit....Of course , good API docs ( what every function does , etc ) is a different matter .
These can be in comments , POD , or the like .
These are often helpful for test case construction as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've picked up an open source project that doesn't have comments.
There's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does, yet I'm supposed to be fixing it.If the code is a real mess, it is unlikely that comments telling you what it does will be of help.
I HATE seeing comments like:# now we save the useror# Checking roles....It's much better, if you think a comment is required to explain WHY a certain choice was made.
For example:# I am making the assumption here that the user is always an employee.
I think this is safe.
If not, we might need to revisit....Of course, good API docs (what every function does, etc) is a different matter.
These can be in comments, POD, or the like.
These are often helpful for test case construction as well.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31481802</id>
	<title>Re:The BSD license</title>
	<author>mindstrm</author>
	<datestamp>1268667300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've thought about that angle... and there is one thing that sticks out as a potential legal puddle.</p><p>When I write some code from scratch, I can license it however I want, to whoever I want, in as many ways as I want. It's *MINE*.  If I make it an "OSS PROJECT" but require the submitters to assign copyright to me if they want me to keep things in my main project.... I retain that privilege.   I can't take away what I've already licensed.. but I still *OWN* the code, and can re-license it.</p><p>Now - with BSD licensed stuff - I can still basically own it... modify it however I want, take back any changes anyone publicly gives, and even though I must retain copyright for them, and can still own MY tree, including contributions others CHOOSE to make</p><p>With GPL... If I release it under GPL, and someone else releases a patch somewhere, but doesn't assign copyright to me,I no longer own the code.. and should I also be implmenting the same feature, and be dual-licensing it, a nasty battle could ensue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've thought about that angle... and there is one thing that sticks out as a potential legal puddle.When I write some code from scratch , I can license it however I want , to whoever I want , in as many ways as I want .
It 's * MINE * .
If I make it an " OSS PROJECT " but require the submitters to assign copyright to me if they want me to keep things in my main project.... I retain that privilege .
I ca n't take away what I 've already licensed.. but I still * OWN * the code , and can re-license it.Now - with BSD licensed stuff - I can still basically own it... modify it however I want , take back any changes anyone publicly gives , and even though I must retain copyright for them , and can still own MY tree , including contributions others CHOOSE to makeWith GPL... If I release it under GPL , and someone else releases a patch somewhere , but does n't assign copyright to me,I no longer own the code.. and should I also be implmenting the same feature , and be dual-licensing it , a nasty battle could ensue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've thought about that angle... and there is one thing that sticks out as a potential legal puddle.When I write some code from scratch, I can license it however I want, to whoever I want, in as many ways as I want.
It's *MINE*.
If I make it an "OSS PROJECT" but require the submitters to assign copyright to me if they want me to keep things in my main project.... I retain that privilege.
I can't take away what I've already licensed.. but I still *OWN* the code, and can re-license it.Now - with BSD licensed stuff - I can still basically own it... modify it however I want, take back any changes anyone publicly gives, and even though I must retain copyright for them, and can still own MY tree, including contributions others CHOOSE to makeWith GPL... If I release it under GPL, and someone else releases a patch somewhere, but doesn't assign copyright to me,I no longer own the code.. and should I also be implmenting the same feature, and be dual-licensing it, a nasty battle could ensue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475696</id>
	<title>Re:Unreproducible bugs</title>
	<author>SLi</author>
	<datestamp>1268568420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Finally, last but not least, circumstantially, crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people.  Don't know if they're more ornery so the tend to report more, or more creative so they tend to find more, but I do know they're a pain to deal with.</p></div><p>I think I'm one of these. Perhaps I do lots of weird things with my computer that nobody else does, but I don't think it's all explained by that. It's more like software hates me and somehow in a murphyesque way just breaks every chance it gets. Both in reproducible and unreproducible ways.</p><p>One day I realized that can be an advantage too, especially since I can usually debug the problems and when I can't, I can usually help the people who can (but can't reproduce it). If software tends to break in your hands no matter what you do, consider becoming a tester. I'm interested in testing too, but the way software seems to hate me is for me the big inspiration to my theoretical computer science major and focus on software verification. I've observed that software that has been proven correct (to some specification) tends to break at least slightly less often.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Finally , last but not least , circumstantially , crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people .
Do n't know if they 're more ornery so the tend to report more , or more creative so they tend to find more , but I do know they 're a pain to deal with.I think I 'm one of these .
Perhaps I do lots of weird things with my computer that nobody else does , but I do n't think it 's all explained by that .
It 's more like software hates me and somehow in a murphyesque way just breaks every chance it gets .
Both in reproducible and unreproducible ways.One day I realized that can be an advantage too , especially since I can usually debug the problems and when I ca n't , I can usually help the people who can ( but ca n't reproduce it ) .
If software tends to break in your hands no matter what you do , consider becoming a tester .
I 'm interested in testing too , but the way software seems to hate me is for me the big inspiration to my theoretical computer science major and focus on software verification .
I 've observed that software that has been proven correct ( to some specification ) tends to break at least slightly less often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Finally, last but not least, circumstantially, crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people.
Don't know if they're more ornery so the tend to report more, or more creative so they tend to find more, but I do know they're a pain to deal with.I think I'm one of these.
Perhaps I do lots of weird things with my computer that nobody else does, but I don't think it's all explained by that.
It's more like software hates me and somehow in a murphyesque way just breaks every chance it gets.
Both in reproducible and unreproducible ways.One day I realized that can be an advantage too, especially since I can usually debug the problems and when I can't, I can usually help the people who can (but can't reproduce it).
If software tends to break in your hands no matter what you do, consider becoming a tester.
I'm interested in testing too, but the way software seems to hate me is for me the big inspiration to my theoretical computer science major and focus on software verification.
I've observed that software that has been proven correct (to some specification) tends to break at least slightly less often.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474308</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1268558700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does "pro-freedom" mean in this context? I'm pro-freedom, too. Freedom to wear polka-dot pants to church. The GPL protects the freedom of <em>users</em>, where you want a license that protects the freedom of the developer. Unless you're just trolling (hard to tell) then you're still offtopic; we're talking about what programming tasks do you avoid, not what programming projects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does " pro-freedom " mean in this context ?
I 'm pro-freedom , too .
Freedom to wear polka-dot pants to church .
The GPL protects the freedom of users , where you want a license that protects the freedom of the developer .
Unless you 're just trolling ( hard to tell ) then you 're still offtopic ; we 're talking about what programming tasks do you avoid , not what programming projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does "pro-freedom" mean in this context?
I'm pro-freedom, too.
Freedom to wear polka-dot pants to church.
The GPL protects the freedom of users, where you want a license that protects the freedom of the developer.
Unless you're just trolling (hard to tell) then you're still offtopic; we're talking about what programming tasks do you avoid, not what programming projects.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476266</id>
	<title>Re:From a user perspective</title>
	<author>martin-boundary</author>
	<datestamp>1268572920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The value of documentation depends largely on the stage of the project.
Documenting too early is counterproductive and shouldn't be done.
<p>
What's too early? If the internals are very sketchy and fluid, and if
the interface (ie command line switches, menus, buttons and widgets) is
highly variable. Basically, while the programmers don't have a clear idea
of the right way to construct the project.
</p><p>
At some point, the interface stabilitizes, and the internal architecture
stabilizes, and the programmers know that they'll keep things like that for
a long time. It's at that point that documentation becomes valuable, and should
start to get done.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The value of documentation depends largely on the stage of the project .
Documenting too early is counterproductive and should n't be done .
What 's too early ?
If the internals are very sketchy and fluid , and if the interface ( ie command line switches , menus , buttons and widgets ) is highly variable .
Basically , while the programmers do n't have a clear idea of the right way to construct the project .
At some point , the interface stabilitizes , and the internal architecture stabilizes , and the programmers know that they 'll keep things like that for a long time .
It 's at that point that documentation becomes valuable , and should start to get done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The value of documentation depends largely on the stage of the project.
Documenting too early is counterproductive and shouldn't be done.
What's too early?
If the internals are very sketchy and fluid, and if
the interface (ie command line switches, menus, buttons and widgets) is
highly variable.
Basically, while the programmers don't have a clear idea
of the right way to construct the project.
At some point, the interface stabilitizes, and the internal architecture
stabilizes, and the programmers know that they'll keep things like that for
a long time.
It's at that point that documentation becomes valuable, and should
start to get done.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474452</id>
	<title>Re:An advantage of Closed Source</title>
	<author>nxtw</author>
	<datestamp>1268560080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>However most open source projects don't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the project</p></div></blockquote><p>Non-toy open source projects have significant corporate backing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>However most open source projects do n't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the projectNon-toy open source projects have significant corporate backing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However most open source projects don't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the projectNon-toy open source projects have significant corporate backing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474172</id>
	<title>real hackers don't dread</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahhh, can't resist...</p><p>Real hackers don't dread unpleasant tasks.
They write code that (perhaps write code that) does the unpleasant task for
them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahhh , ca n't resist...Real hackers do n't dread unpleasant tasks .
They write code that ( perhaps write code that ) does the unpleasant task for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahhh, can't resist...Real hackers don't dread unpleasant tasks.
They write code that (perhaps write code that) does the unpleasant task for
them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478268</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>LingNoi</author>
	<datestamp>1268589180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why exactly steer clear? The GPL enforcements don't kick in unless you attempt to redistribute your work. That doesn't include private changes between you and/or a client.</p><p>Your GPL responsibilities only kick in when you are allowing others to download your web based application scripts. It's the very reason the FSF came up with a new license the AGPL which forces someone that makes private changes to their copy of a project to release them if they're publically online.</p><p>This I could understand why you would avoid, however the standard GPL, that doesn't make much sense if you're only using GPL'd software between you and the client hiring you.</p><p>The only thing I could possibly think of is that you might somehow be required to give your client the same rights under the GPL that you had however it's pretty much a complete non-issue since php, perl, etc all come with the source included. Also since the goal is working on the client's website and it's one off stuff I doubt you or they care about that. It's never a situation i've ever heard about or run into.</p><blockquote><div><p>Simply: it spells nothing but trouble to me. Please do discuss, debate, don't just f***ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it "troll".</p></div></blockquote><p>Would you happen to be more clear about what trouble the GPL causes you because at the moment you haven't said anything to support your claims. I don't really understand what you expect us to debate on when you haven't said anything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why exactly steer clear ?
The GPL enforcements do n't kick in unless you attempt to redistribute your work .
That does n't include private changes between you and/or a client.Your GPL responsibilities only kick in when you are allowing others to download your web based application scripts .
It 's the very reason the FSF came up with a new license the AGPL which forces someone that makes private changes to their copy of a project to release them if they 're publically online.This I could understand why you would avoid , however the standard GPL , that does n't make much sense if you 're only using GPL 'd software between you and the client hiring you.The only thing I could possibly think of is that you might somehow be required to give your client the same rights under the GPL that you had however it 's pretty much a complete non-issue since php , perl , etc all come with the source included .
Also since the goal is working on the client 's website and it 's one off stuff I doubt you or they care about that .
It 's never a situation i 've ever heard about or run into.Simply : it spells nothing but trouble to me .
Please do discuss , debate , do n't just f * * * ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it " troll " .Would you happen to be more clear about what trouble the GPL causes you because at the moment you have n't said anything to support your claims .
I do n't really understand what you expect us to debate on when you have n't said anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why exactly steer clear?
The GPL enforcements don't kick in unless you attempt to redistribute your work.
That doesn't include private changes between you and/or a client.Your GPL responsibilities only kick in when you are allowing others to download your web based application scripts.
It's the very reason the FSF came up with a new license the AGPL which forces someone that makes private changes to their copy of a project to release them if they're publically online.This I could understand why you would avoid, however the standard GPL, that doesn't make much sense if you're only using GPL'd software between you and the client hiring you.The only thing I could possibly think of is that you might somehow be required to give your client the same rights under the GPL that you had however it's pretty much a complete non-issue since php, perl, etc all come with the source included.
Also since the goal is working on the client's website and it's one off stuff I doubt you or they care about that.
It's never a situation i've ever heard about or run into.Simply: it spells nothing but trouble to me.
Please do discuss, debate, don't just f***ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it "troll".Would you happen to be more clear about what trouble the GPL causes you because at the moment you haven't said anything to support your claims.
I don't really understand what you expect us to debate on when you haven't said anything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476422</id>
	<title>Re:Adding comments</title>
	<author>mjwalshe</author>
	<datestamp>1268573940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>having some at least some decently written documentation would help</htmltext>
<tokenext>having some at least some decently written documentation would help</tokentext>
<sentencetext>having some at least some decently written documentation would help</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474998</id>
	<title>Re:Security through obscurity</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1268563620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Any way you look at it, if both computers have the information of every unit, a hack can be made.  Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them.</p></div><p>Good luck using technical means to identify the guys using a passive protocol analyzer to watch the data.</p><p>To catch any collusion, maybe over a telephone or whatever, analyze player behavior to see if they make the correct decision too often, as if using "hidden" data.  Kind of like they do in Vegas.  But that's not "counter hacking" by "security professionals" or whatever, that's just common sense.  The really good cheaters will only cheat once per game at the most important moment... you'll never catch them, and if you do, they'll claim to be following a "hunch" or "guessing".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any way you look at it , if both computers have the information of every unit , a hack can be made .
Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them.Good luck using technical means to identify the guys using a passive protocol analyzer to watch the data.To catch any collusion , maybe over a telephone or whatever , analyze player behavior to see if they make the correct decision too often , as if using " hidden " data .
Kind of like they do in Vegas .
But that 's not " counter hacking " by " security professionals " or whatever , that 's just common sense .
The really good cheaters will only cheat once per game at the most important moment... you 'll never catch them , and if you do , they 'll claim to be following a " hunch " or " guessing " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any way you look at it, if both computers have the information of every unit, a hack can be made.
Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them.Good luck using technical means to identify the guys using a passive protocol analyzer to watch the data.To catch any collusion, maybe over a telephone or whatever, analyze player behavior to see if they make the correct decision too often, as if using "hidden" data.
Kind of like they do in Vegas.
But that's not "counter hacking" by "security professionals" or whatever, that's just common sense.
The really good cheaters will only cheat once per game at the most important moment... you'll never catch them, and if you do, they'll claim to be following a "hunch" or "guessing".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474642</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Planesdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1268561580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if we are unwilling to answer such basic question, people will just get scared (and subconsciously assume that "Linux is not ready for the desktop").</p></div><p>That's not an assumption, that's a conclusion.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if we are unwilling to answer such basic question , people will just get scared ( and subconsciously assume that " Linux is not ready for the desktop " ) .That 's not an assumption , that 's a conclusion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if we are unwilling to answer such basic question, people will just get scared (and subconsciously assume that "Linux is not ready for the desktop").That's not an assumption, that's a conclusion.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</id>
	<title>irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>nloop</author>
	<datestamp>1268600040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The obligatory annoying irc channel of people asking questions already answered via a web search.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The obligatory annoying irc channel of people asking questions already answered via a web search .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The obligatory annoying irc channel of people asking questions already answered via a web search.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474708</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268562000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might not know it, but there are things that can&rsquo;t be searched with a web search. For example if you don&rsquo;t know the words other people use to describe it in the first place. If it can&rsquo;t be put in words that simply. There are things only a human can recognize as something. Things that defy being put in query form.<br>So while you might be able to find them, that doesn&rsquo;t mean someone else can.<br>It&rsquo;s like answering the questions of Family Feud. Harder than it looks.</p><p>I only go to IRC if a web search doesn&rsquo;t turn up anything useful. Or if I have looked trough results for hours. Or in above case.<br>There is one problem with the answers on IRC: Nobody notes them and puts them in a FAQ or knowledge base (perhaps in wiki form).<br>I think that would make the whole thing much easier.</p><p>And I always end up answering tons of questions myself. For example when I enter #Gentoo, I often single-handedly juggle and answer all the questions. And they are honest and legitimate questions.</p><p>But maybe you just frequent different channels. Or avoid them with prejudice... which will then of course never change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might not know it , but there are things that can    t be searched with a web search .
For example if you don    t know the words other people use to describe it in the first place .
If it can    t be put in words that simply .
There are things only a human can recognize as something .
Things that defy being put in query form.So while you might be able to find them , that doesn    t mean someone else can.It    s like answering the questions of Family Feud .
Harder than it looks.I only go to IRC if a web search doesn    t turn up anything useful .
Or if I have looked trough results for hours .
Or in above case.There is one problem with the answers on IRC : Nobody notes them and puts them in a FAQ or knowledge base ( perhaps in wiki form ) .I think that would make the whole thing much easier.And I always end up answering tons of questions myself .
For example when I enter # Gentoo , I often single-handedly juggle and answer all the questions .
And they are honest and legitimate questions.But maybe you just frequent different channels .
Or avoid them with prejudice... which will then of course never change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might not know it, but there are things that can’t be searched with a web search.
For example if you don’t know the words other people use to describe it in the first place.
If it can’t be put in words that simply.
There are things only a human can recognize as something.
Things that defy being put in query form.So while you might be able to find them, that doesn’t mean someone else can.It’s like answering the questions of Family Feud.
Harder than it looks.I only go to IRC if a web search doesn’t turn up anything useful.
Or if I have looked trough results for hours.
Or in above case.There is one problem with the answers on IRC: Nobody notes them and puts them in a FAQ or knowledge base (perhaps in wiki form).I think that would make the whole thing much easier.And I always end up answering tons of questions myself.
For example when I enter #Gentoo, I often single-handedly juggle and answer all the questions.
And they are honest and legitimate questions.But maybe you just frequent different channels.
Or avoid them with prejudice... which will then of course never change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474282</id>
	<title>An advantage of Closed Source</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1268558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a real problem with Open Source Software... There is some parts about creating a program that just isn't fun.  When you are in a corporate environment you kinda have to go threw the drudge work to get your job done.  Now for large open source projects with a good corporate backing this isn't much of an issue as say the IBM Drone will be forced to get the job done in time.  However most open source projects don't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the project.  When fun stuff is over the project doesn't get completed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a real problem with Open Source Software... There is some parts about creating a program that just is n't fun .
When you are in a corporate environment you kinda have to go threw the drudge work to get your job done .
Now for large open source projects with a good corporate backing this is n't much of an issue as say the IBM Drone will be forced to get the job done in time .
However most open source projects do n't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the project .
When fun stuff is over the project does n't get completed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a real problem with Open Source Software... There is some parts about creating a program that just isn't fun.
When you are in a corporate environment you kinda have to go threw the drudge work to get your job done.
Now for large open source projects with a good corporate backing this isn't much of an issue as say the IBM Drone will be forced to get the job done in time.
However most open source projects don't have the corporate backing and is based only on the joy of the project.
When fun stuff is over the project doesn't get completed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478224</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1268588640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That and there are two factors involved in finding answers on the web.  The first, obviously, is using the right search terms.  I am usually pretty skilled at getting the information that I need rather quickly on the internet, but when confronted with a new piece of software/operating system where I don't even know what the thing is called that I am having problems with, it is hard to start.  I can't think of any concrete examples offhand because it has been awhile, but it is not unheard of.</p><p>Also, there are times when a search HAS been tried and extremely confusing or outright false information is provided.  In the world where long command line strings or large text configuration files exist, missing a / or replacing it with a \ can render your search-results impotent.  When you are just learning something and the top ten search results show answers that you are more confused by than your original question, more help may be needed.</p><p>I would THINK that logging into an IRC channel for help is more work than doing an actual search....so before automatically lambasting them for not UTFSE consider that there may be extraneous factors.</p><p>I think this may be a good time to mention determining WHY you are involved in the FOSS community.  Do you think Linux/FOSS are an awesome set of tools that you just like to explore, use, and help write....or do you gain satisfaction from knowing that you wrote/helped write a tool that a lot of users find helpful?  There isn't a correct answer to this question other than how you personally feel.  If you don't give a damn about plebes and their idiot questions, don't drag yourself into a forum/channel just to give new users a lot of grief and make them feel afraid to ask questions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That and there are two factors involved in finding answers on the web .
The first , obviously , is using the right search terms .
I am usually pretty skilled at getting the information that I need rather quickly on the internet , but when confronted with a new piece of software/operating system where I do n't even know what the thing is called that I am having problems with , it is hard to start .
I ca n't think of any concrete examples offhand because it has been awhile , but it is not unheard of.Also , there are times when a search HAS been tried and extremely confusing or outright false information is provided .
In the world where long command line strings or large text configuration files exist , missing a / or replacing it with a \ can render your search-results impotent .
When you are just learning something and the top ten search results show answers that you are more confused by than your original question , more help may be needed.I would THINK that logging into an IRC channel for help is more work than doing an actual search....so before automatically lambasting them for not UTFSE consider that there may be extraneous factors.I think this may be a good time to mention determining WHY you are involved in the FOSS community .
Do you think Linux/FOSS are an awesome set of tools that you just like to explore , use , and help write....or do you gain satisfaction from knowing that you wrote/helped write a tool that a lot of users find helpful ?
There is n't a correct answer to this question other than how you personally feel .
If you do n't give a damn about plebes and their idiot questions , do n't drag yourself into a forum/channel just to give new users a lot of grief and make them feel afraid to ask questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That and there are two factors involved in finding answers on the web.
The first, obviously, is using the right search terms.
I am usually pretty skilled at getting the information that I need rather quickly on the internet, but when confronted with a new piece of software/operating system where I don't even know what the thing is called that I am having problems with, it is hard to start.
I can't think of any concrete examples offhand because it has been awhile, but it is not unheard of.Also, there are times when a search HAS been tried and extremely confusing or outright false information is provided.
In the world where long command line strings or large text configuration files exist, missing a / or replacing it with a \ can render your search-results impotent.
When you are just learning something and the top ten search results show answers that you are more confused by than your original question, more help may be needed.I would THINK that logging into an IRC channel for help is more work than doing an actual search....so before automatically lambasting them for not UTFSE consider that there may be extraneous factors.I think this may be a good time to mention determining WHY you are involved in the FOSS community.
Do you think Linux/FOSS are an awesome set of tools that you just like to explore, use, and help write....or do you gain satisfaction from knowing that you wrote/helped write a tool that a lot of users find helpful?
There isn't a correct answer to this question other than how you personally feel.
If you don't give a damn about plebes and their idiot questions, don't drag yourself into a forum/channel just to give new users a lot of grief and make them feel afraid to ask questions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476884</id>
	<title>I contribute to Slashdot discussions...</title>
	<author>Alex Belits</author>
	<datestamp>1268576820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and I really dread arguing with religious people, free market advocates and American loyalists.</p><p>While it's important to constantly that those categories of people are completely morally bankrupt, stupid and plain evil, it's like diving with a snorkel into an enormous vat filled with decomposing brains. Can someone else do it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and I really dread arguing with religious people , free market advocates and American loyalists.While it 's important to constantly that those categories of people are completely morally bankrupt , stupid and plain evil , it 's like diving with a snorkel into an enormous vat filled with decomposing brains .
Can someone else do it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and I really dread arguing with religious people, free market advocates and American loyalists.While it's important to constantly that those categories of people are completely morally bankrupt, stupid and plain evil, it's like diving with a snorkel into an enormous vat filled with decomposing brains.
Can someone else do it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474362</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>aflag</author>
	<datestamp>1268559240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I avoid it for the trolls that want to tell you what you should or shouldn't ask.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I avoid it for the trolls that want to tell you what you should or should n't ask .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I avoid it for the trolls that want to tell you what you should or shouldn't ask.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31489612</id>
	<title>The arguments</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268656980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The pointless arguments over shit that doesn't really matter between Linux kernel contributors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The pointless arguments over shit that does n't really matter between Linux kernel contributors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The pointless arguments over shit that doesn't really matter between Linux kernel contributors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474092</id>
	<title>Getting slashdotted...</title>
	<author>kevin\_j\_morse</author>
	<datestamp>1268600220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... I try to avoid it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... I try to avoid it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... I try to avoid it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474388</id>
	<title>Re:The GPL.</title>
	<author>jedidiah</author>
	<datestamp>1268559540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are always at liberty to 'code as you see fit' so long as you don't try to sponge off of someone else and then ignore their wishes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are always at liberty to 'code as you see fit ' so long as you do n't try to sponge off of someone else and then ignore their wishes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are always at liberty to 'code as you see fit' so long as you don't try to sponge off of someone else and then ignore their wishes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474428</id>
	<title>We don't want your code, thanks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268559900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'll use BSD code, but I will never submit a line of code to such a project.</p></div><p>Thanks. That's basically how we want you to operate.</p><p>Given your zealous nature and your love for the GPL's utter destruction of freedom, we doubt your sensibility and basic reasoning skills. If you can't comprehend a simple concept like freedom, then I sure as hell don't think that you can properly comprehend anything relating to programming or software development.</p><p>Use our code all you want. It's the best code around, and much better than anything you could write.</p><p>We don't want your code, because it's shit. Keep it to yourself, please.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll use BSD code , but I will never submit a line of code to such a project.Thanks .
That 's basically how we want you to operate.Given your zealous nature and your love for the GPL 's utter destruction of freedom , we doubt your sensibility and basic reasoning skills .
If you ca n't comprehend a simple concept like freedom , then I sure as hell do n't think that you can properly comprehend anything relating to programming or software development.Use our code all you want .
It 's the best code around , and much better than anything you could write.We do n't want your code , because it 's shit .
Keep it to yourself , please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll use BSD code, but I will never submit a line of code to such a project.Thanks.
That's basically how we want you to operate.Given your zealous nature and your love for the GPL's utter destruction of freedom, we doubt your sensibility and basic reasoning skills.
If you can't comprehend a simple concept like freedom, then I sure as hell don't think that you can properly comprehend anything relating to programming or software development.Use our code all you want.
It's the best code around, and much better than anything you could write.We don't want your code, because it's shit.
Keep it to yourself, please.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474464</id>
	<title>Security through obscurity</title>
	<author>CrazyJim1</author>
	<datestamp>1268560140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some of my projects I have involve security through obscurity.  Obviously this gets hacked eventually, but making it Open Source would get it hacked immediately and harder.  I run a game of hack and counter hack in my projects like an escalating war.  If I'm lazy and want to release early, I may not put a lot of counter hacks in.  <br> <br>

I know the counter argument that releasing a project will let it become secure.  But there are some things which simply cannot be made more secure.  An example of this would be Starcraft 1 which transfers the data between both clients so you can't prevent the map hack.  Any way you look at it, if both computers have the information of every unit, a hack can be made.  Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them.  But if the information of the counter hacks was made public, hackers would work around them and not be identified and banned.<br> <br>

So there are times when you want your code secretive instead of publishing to Open Source.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of my projects I have involve security through obscurity .
Obviously this gets hacked eventually , but making it Open Source would get it hacked immediately and harder .
I run a game of hack and counter hack in my projects like an escalating war .
If I 'm lazy and want to release early , I may not put a lot of counter hacks in .
I know the counter argument that releasing a project will let it become secure .
But there are some things which simply can not be made more secure .
An example of this would be Starcraft 1 which transfers the data between both clients so you ca n't prevent the map hack .
Any way you look at it , if both computers have the information of every unit , a hack can be made .
Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them .
But if the information of the counter hacks was made public , hackers would work around them and not be identified and banned .
So there are times when you want your code secretive instead of publishing to Open Source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of my projects I have involve security through obscurity.
Obviously this gets hacked eventually, but making it Open Source would get it hacked immediately and harder.
I run a game of hack and counter hack in my projects like an escalating war.
If I'm lazy and want to release early, I may not put a lot of counter hacks in.
I know the counter argument that releasing a project will let it become secure.
But there are some things which simply cannot be made more secure.
An example of this would be Starcraft 1 which transfers the data between both clients so you can't prevent the map hack.
Any way you look at it, if both computers have the information of every unit, a hack can be made.
Now you can have counter hacks by security professionals to identify hackers and ban them.
But if the information of the counter hacks was made public, hackers would work around them and not be identified and banned.
So there are times when you want your code secretive instead of publishing to Open Source.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474828</id>
	<title>Evangelism.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268562720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But I avoid that for everything.</p><p>Like preaching close-minded people, who think that they are much more open-minded than you just because they oppose what they perceive as the majority opinion. When they are really religiously locked on the exact opposite view, even sometimes imitating the opposite.</p><p>Or in short: People that don&rsquo;t think for themselves and people that try to force their reality upon me.</p><p>Two examples would be<br>1) Those that completely and totally avoid putting anything closed-source on their system, even if they only have disadvantages because of it, and even if in the long run, it would help them getting free from closed source. In the case of (graphics) drivers, much more people would use Linux, if they could use all their hardware like on Windows. Which would force other companies to support Linux more. Which would strengthen open source as a whole, and also put more pressure on the still closed drivers, who now would be the worse working ones.<br>2) The Gnome team, who think they know better than me, what I want to do with my system and how I want to do it, and therefore only include options they think I should use. They even remove options that they don&rsquo;t want me to use. Only cattle, fanboys and themselves can stand that in the long run. Since others will run into differences. A good programmer also allows options that he does not like. Because he cares for his users. That&rsquo;s why they are options. He can still make his choice the default. (Yes, KDE4 also fell for this a bit. And Apple practically invented it.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But I avoid that for everything.Like preaching close-minded people , who think that they are much more open-minded than you just because they oppose what they perceive as the majority opinion .
When they are really religiously locked on the exact opposite view , even sometimes imitating the opposite.Or in short : People that don    t think for themselves and people that try to force their reality upon me.Two examples would be1 ) Those that completely and totally avoid putting anything closed-source on their system , even if they only have disadvantages because of it , and even if in the long run , it would help them getting free from closed source .
In the case of ( graphics ) drivers , much more people would use Linux , if they could use all their hardware like on Windows .
Which would force other companies to support Linux more .
Which would strengthen open source as a whole , and also put more pressure on the still closed drivers , who now would be the worse working ones.2 ) The Gnome team , who think they know better than me , what I want to do with my system and how I want to do it , and therefore only include options they think I should use .
They even remove options that they don    t want me to use .
Only cattle , fanboys and themselves can stand that in the long run .
Since others will run into differences .
A good programmer also allows options that he does not like .
Because he cares for his users .
That    s why they are options .
He can still make his choice the default .
( Yes , KDE4 also fell for this a bit .
And Apple practically invented it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I avoid that for everything.Like preaching close-minded people, who think that they are much more open-minded than you just because they oppose what they perceive as the majority opinion.
When they are really religiously locked on the exact opposite view, even sometimes imitating the opposite.Or in short: People that don’t think for themselves and people that try to force their reality upon me.Two examples would be1) Those that completely and totally avoid putting anything closed-source on their system, even if they only have disadvantages because of it, and even if in the long run, it would help them getting free from closed source.
In the case of (graphics) drivers, much more people would use Linux, if they could use all their hardware like on Windows.
Which would force other companies to support Linux more.
Which would strengthen open source as a whole, and also put more pressure on the still closed drivers, who now would be the worse working ones.2) The Gnome team, who think they know better than me, what I want to do with my system and how I want to do it, and therefore only include options they think I should use.
They even remove options that they don’t want me to use.
Only cattle, fanboys and themselves can stand that in the long run.
Since others will run into differences.
A good programmer also allows options that he does not like.
Because he cares for his users.
That’s why they are options.
He can still make his choice the default.
(Yes, KDE4 also fell for this a bit.
And Apple practically invented it.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476506</id>
	<title>The aspect of open source projects I avoid is</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1268574540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>contributing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>contributing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>contributing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474982</id>
	<title>Duh...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268563560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I avoid the part where nobody pays me.</p><p>(unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to get paid for writing open source software at all, so as you can guess, I don't actually write any).</p><p>Ever Anon, Anonymous Coward<br>PS - the captcha word was 'normal'. I think not<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I avoid the part where nobody pays me .
( unfortunately , I have n't figured out how to get paid for writing open source software at all , so as you can guess , I do n't actually write any ) .Ever Anon , Anonymous CowardPS - the captcha word was 'normal' .
I think not : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I avoid the part where nobody pays me.
(unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to get paid for writing open source software at all, so as you can guess, I don't actually write any).Ever Anon, Anonymous CowardPS - the captcha word was 'normal'.
I think not :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476390</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>JeremyGNJ</author>
	<datestamp>1268573760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yea, those Windows and MAC users are so dumb.  They expect installing an application should be a standard part of the OS and easy!  <br> <br>

Instead, they will have to learn that you are better off if you choose between several different package managers with various subtle differences.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yea , those Windows and MAC users are so dumb .
They expect installing an application should be a standard part of the OS and easy !
Instead , they will have to learn that you are better off if you choose between several different package managers with various subtle differences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yea, those Windows and MAC users are so dumb.
They expect installing an application should be a standard part of the OS and easy!
Instead, they will have to learn that you are better off if you choose between several different package managers with various subtle differences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474082</id>
	<title>public relations</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1268600100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as I don't have to make freindly with the natives, the headhunters, and the unwashed masses, I'm happy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as I do n't have to make freindly with the natives , the headhunters , and the unwashed masses , I 'm happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as I don't have to make freindly with the natives, the headhunters, and the unwashed masses, I'm happy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474486</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>ZackSchil</author>
	<datestamp>1268560320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "app store" concept might help a lot in this regard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " app store " concept might help a lot in this regard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "app store" concept might help a lot in this regard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474230</id>
	<title>GPL is not troublesome</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1268558160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The GPL is not troublesome when it comes to developing web based applications, unless you really want to charge royalties or forbid your users from modifying the source code (legally, that is); it does not sound like either is the case for you.  On the other hand, the GPL prevents others from engaging in those same activities with your code -- if that is an issue for you, I would be very interested in knowing why (why would you want to leave open the option of others collecting royalties on your code if you yourself do not seek them?).<br> <br>

Why do you feel that the GPL spells trouble?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The GPL is not troublesome when it comes to developing web based applications , unless you really want to charge royalties or forbid your users from modifying the source code ( legally , that is ) ; it does not sound like either is the case for you .
On the other hand , the GPL prevents others from engaging in those same activities with your code -- if that is an issue for you , I would be very interested in knowing why ( why would you want to leave open the option of others collecting royalties on your code if you yourself do not seek them ? ) .
Why do you feel that the GPL spells trouble ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GPL is not troublesome when it comes to developing web based applications, unless you really want to charge royalties or forbid your users from modifying the source code (legally, that is); it does not sound like either is the case for you.
On the other hand, the GPL prevents others from engaging in those same activities with your code -- if that is an issue for you, I would be very interested in knowing why (why would you want to leave open the option of others collecting royalties on your code if you yourself do not seek them?).
Why do you feel that the GPL spells trouble?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474086</id>
	<title>Adding comments</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268600100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've picked up an open source project that doesn't have comments. There's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does, yet I'm supposed to be fixing it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've picked up an open source project that does n't have comments .
There 's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does , yet I 'm supposed to be fixing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've picked up an open source project that doesn't have comments.
There's major chunks of it that the code is such a mess that I have no idea what it does, yet I'm supposed to be fixing it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475960</id>
	<title>I try to avoid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268570700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RMS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RMS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RMS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474280</id>
	<title>From a user perspective</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1268558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the answer is obvious - what most developers avoid like the plague is documentation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474062</id>
	<title>Ego</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268599920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Especially when someone full of themselves buys the domain name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially when someone full of themselves buys the domain name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially when someone full of themselves buys the domain name.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31477490</id>
	<title>Project Names !</title>
	<author>spudgun</author>
	<datestamp>1268581620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Project Names</p><p>Lightning = Calendar ?</p><p>Funambol = syncml ?</p><p>Duckling ?</p><p>Squid = Proxy Server</p><p>Gnome</p><p>Filezilla</p><p>Great Fun Names , but a bit hard to Explain to Management or Customers !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Project NamesLightning = Calendar ? Funambol = syncml ? Duckling ? Squid = Proxy ServerGnomeFilezillaGreat Fun Names , but a bit hard to Explain to Management or Customers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Project NamesLightning = Calendar ?Funambol = syncml ?Duckling ?Squid = Proxy ServerGnomeFilezillaGreat Fun Names , but a bit hard to Explain to Management or Customers !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31484028</id>
	<title>Re:Adding comments</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1268677080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this day and age, where searching is so easy, you certainly would not want to make it easier. *rolling eyes*</p><p>The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed. Furthermore, comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.</p><p>The all too common position that well written code is its own best documentation also poorly assumes all developers have at least the original author's skill set. Additionally, many coders seem to believe they write excellent code when in fact they don't. Even worse, some coders come up with truly bazaar coding styles which makes it down right painful to read and comprehend. This combination of factors often takes finding and/or maintaining relevant code long and tedious.</p><p>Never underestimate the stupidity of a smart person. I can't stress this enough.</p><p>At the end of the day, its extremely difficult for comments to ever pose a problem so long as they are properly maintained. About the only time I've seen comments that were horrible is when they insist on constantly intermixing comments and code on the same line (example: code comment code comment code comment), especially when it spans many, many lines. Aside from that, comments can provide incite into why a direction was taken, or a road left untraveled, what the developer was thinking, why code may have been duplicated or other code wasn't re-used, explain a general approach, etc. Some of this may seem obvious once you visit the code, but I can't tell you how many times developers go to "optimize" or simply change "obvious" code only to find out the "obvious" reasons for the code were not obvious at all and they had far reaching implementation implications.</p><p>The primary problem I find with comments are they are not properly maintained. For developers which do provide comments, comments should be viewed as on equal footing with code. If the comments are wrong, they should be marked as a bug and fixed, or deleted. If accurate comments prove troublesome for you, you likely need to be using a different editor.</p><p>Remember, at the end of the day, most developers are still human and comments can serve an important function outside of terse, useless grave stones within code, for other humans.</p><p>The vast majority of coders who I've seen which hate comments have been lazy and simply don't want to write comments, or worse, have an over inflated since of their skills. Just write the comments you believe others will find helpful and properly maintain them. Those who come after will thank you. And if they are confused by accurate comments, then they are likely very poor coders anyways - so code alone isn't going to help them.</p><p><tt><br># Checking roles....</tt></p><p><tt># now we save the user<br></tt></p><p>You forget that the above may have started out as:<br><tt><br>void foo() {<br># Checking roles....<br># now we save the user<br>}<br></tt></p><p>Many coders like to stub things in and develop in an iterative fashion. So at some point, the comments you find useless may have actually been more important than the code you're now sneering at.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this day and age , where searching is so easy , you certainly would not want to make it easier .
* rolling eyes * The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed .
Furthermore , comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.The all too common position that well written code is its own best documentation also poorly assumes all developers have at least the original author 's skill set .
Additionally , many coders seem to believe they write excellent code when in fact they do n't .
Even worse , some coders come up with truly bazaar coding styles which makes it down right painful to read and comprehend .
This combination of factors often takes finding and/or maintaining relevant code long and tedious.Never underestimate the stupidity of a smart person .
I ca n't stress this enough.At the end of the day , its extremely difficult for comments to ever pose a problem so long as they are properly maintained .
About the only time I 've seen comments that were horrible is when they insist on constantly intermixing comments and code on the same line ( example : code comment code comment code comment ) , especially when it spans many , many lines .
Aside from that , comments can provide incite into why a direction was taken , or a road left untraveled , what the developer was thinking , why code may have been duplicated or other code was n't re-used , explain a general approach , etc .
Some of this may seem obvious once you visit the code , but I ca n't tell you how many times developers go to " optimize " or simply change " obvious " code only to find out the " obvious " reasons for the code were not obvious at all and they had far reaching implementation implications.The primary problem I find with comments are they are not properly maintained .
For developers which do provide comments , comments should be viewed as on equal footing with code .
If the comments are wrong , they should be marked as a bug and fixed , or deleted .
If accurate comments prove troublesome for you , you likely need to be using a different editor.Remember , at the end of the day , most developers are still human and comments can serve an important function outside of terse , useless grave stones within code , for other humans.The vast majority of coders who I 've seen which hate comments have been lazy and simply do n't want to write comments , or worse , have an over inflated since of their skills .
Just write the comments you believe others will find helpful and properly maintain them .
Those who come after will thank you .
And if they are confused by accurate comments , then they are likely very poor coders anyways - so code alone is n't going to help them. # Checking roles.... # now we save the userYou forget that the above may have started out as : void foo ( ) { # Checking roles.... # now we save the user } Many coders like to stub things in and develop in an iterative fashion .
So at some point , the comments you find useless may have actually been more important than the code you 're now sneering at .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this day and age, where searching is so easy, you certainly would not want to make it easier.
*rolling eyes*The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed.
Furthermore, comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.The all too common position that well written code is its own best documentation also poorly assumes all developers have at least the original author's skill set.
Additionally, many coders seem to believe they write excellent code when in fact they don't.
Even worse, some coders come up with truly bazaar coding styles which makes it down right painful to read and comprehend.
This combination of factors often takes finding and/or maintaining relevant code long and tedious.Never underestimate the stupidity of a smart person.
I can't stress this enough.At the end of the day, its extremely difficult for comments to ever pose a problem so long as they are properly maintained.
About the only time I've seen comments that were horrible is when they insist on constantly intermixing comments and code on the same line (example: code comment code comment code comment), especially when it spans many, many lines.
Aside from that, comments can provide incite into why a direction was taken, or a road left untraveled, what the developer was thinking, why code may have been duplicated or other code wasn't re-used, explain a general approach, etc.
Some of this may seem obvious once you visit the code, but I can't tell you how many times developers go to "optimize" or simply change "obvious" code only to find out the "obvious" reasons for the code were not obvious at all and they had far reaching implementation implications.The primary problem I find with comments are they are not properly maintained.
For developers which do provide comments, comments should be viewed as on equal footing with code.
If the comments are wrong, they should be marked as a bug and fixed, or deleted.
If accurate comments prove troublesome for you, you likely need to be using a different editor.Remember, at the end of the day, most developers are still human and comments can serve an important function outside of terse, useless grave stones within code, for other humans.The vast majority of coders who I've seen which hate comments have been lazy and simply don't want to write comments, or worse, have an over inflated since of their skills.
Just write the comments you believe others will find helpful and properly maintain them.
Those who come after will thank you.
And if they are confused by accurate comments, then they are likely very poor coders anyways - so code alone isn't going to help them.# Checking roles....# now we save the userYou forget that the above may have started out as:void foo() {# Checking roles....# now we save the user}Many coders like to stub things in and develop in an iterative fashion.
So at some point, the comments you find useless may have actually been more important than the code you're now sneering at.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474214</id>
	<title>Re:The BSD license</title>
	<author>carlhaagen</author>
	<datestamp>1268557980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Morals differ. It's a bit like the discussion regarding free speech, where lots of people say "oh I'm all for free speech, alright, AS LONG AS IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING NICE". That's what free speech is for; to allow even the uncomfortable topics to get their breath of air in the public debate in order to illuminate, understand and handle them. Either you accept this, and thus being for free speech, or you don't, and then you're simply not for free speech AT ALL. I have the same perspective of free, and freedom; either you're for freedom, or you're not for freedom at all as is the case with the GPL license ("oh I'm for freedom, alright, AS LONG AS ONLY THOSE I WANT WILL BENEFIT FROM IT").  GPL doesn't extend full freedom to the developers of the software, only to the end-users, and by that definition GPL is not freedom at all. PERIOD.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Morals differ .
It 's a bit like the discussion regarding free speech , where lots of people say " oh I 'm all for free speech , alright , AS LONG AS IT 'S ABOUT SOMETHING NICE " .
That 's what free speech is for ; to allow even the uncomfortable topics to get their breath of air in the public debate in order to illuminate , understand and handle them .
Either you accept this , and thus being for free speech , or you do n't , and then you 're simply not for free speech AT ALL .
I have the same perspective of free , and freedom ; either you 're for freedom , or you 're not for freedom at all as is the case with the GPL license ( " oh I 'm for freedom , alright , AS LONG AS ONLY THOSE I WANT WILL BENEFIT FROM IT " ) .
GPL does n't extend full freedom to the developers of the software , only to the end-users , and by that definition GPL is not freedom at all .
PERIOD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Morals differ.
It's a bit like the discussion regarding free speech, where lots of people say "oh I'm all for free speech, alright, AS LONG AS IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING NICE".
That's what free speech is for; to allow even the uncomfortable topics to get their breath of air in the public debate in order to illuminate, understand and handle them.
Either you accept this, and thus being for free speech, or you don't, and then you're simply not for free speech AT ALL.
I have the same perspective of free, and freedom; either you're for freedom, or you're not for freedom at all as is the case with the GPL license ("oh I'm for freedom, alright, AS LONG AS ONLY THOSE I WANT WILL BENEFIT FROM IT").
GPL doesn't extend full freedom to the developers of the software, only to the end-users, and by that definition GPL is not freedom at all.
PERIOD.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478388</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268590980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The GPL terms don't kick in until those 1000 users attempt to re-distribute the code themselves.</p><p>So lets assume by "steal" you mean 1000 users take the code, make modifications and then try to sell their copy without source. Now doing so doesn't diminish my enjoyment of said project however it does have negative consequences for the project which will eventually diminish my enjoyment of the project.</p><p>Firstly, those 1000 users who distributed their closed source versions haven't given the source to their users. That means the upstream project is loosing potential bug reports, contributors, etc. It also means they might get bombarded by complaints from users who downloaded the stolen version.</p><p>Also there is the issue that the BSD doesn't deal with patents in the slightest. Someone could contribute patented code to your project then sue you for violating the patents. That's something the GPL 3, Microsoft's open source license, and many other's cover. That fact that BSD doesn't do this makes it a stupid license to use.</p><p>I'm sure there are many other examples, however I'm done wasting time on yet another uninformed BSD user posting as AC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The GPL terms do n't kick in until those 1000 users attempt to re-distribute the code themselves.So lets assume by " steal " you mean 1000 users take the code , make modifications and then try to sell their copy without source .
Now doing so does n't diminish my enjoyment of said project however it does have negative consequences for the project which will eventually diminish my enjoyment of the project.Firstly , those 1000 users who distributed their closed source versions have n't given the source to their users .
That means the upstream project is loosing potential bug reports , contributors , etc .
It also means they might get bombarded by complaints from users who downloaded the stolen version.Also there is the issue that the BSD does n't deal with patents in the slightest .
Someone could contribute patented code to your project then sue you for violating the patents .
That 's something the GPL 3 , Microsoft 's open source license , and many other 's cover .
That fact that BSD does n't do this makes it a stupid license to use.I 'm sure there are many other examples , however I 'm done wasting time on yet another uninformed BSD user posting as AC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GPL terms don't kick in until those 1000 users attempt to re-distribute the code themselves.So lets assume by "steal" you mean 1000 users take the code, make modifications and then try to sell their copy without source.
Now doing so doesn't diminish my enjoyment of said project however it does have negative consequences for the project which will eventually diminish my enjoyment of the project.Firstly, those 1000 users who distributed their closed source versions haven't given the source to their users.
That means the upstream project is loosing potential bug reports, contributors, etc.
It also means they might get bombarded by complaints from users who downloaded the stolen version.Also there is the issue that the BSD doesn't deal with patents in the slightest.
Someone could contribute patented code to your project then sue you for violating the patents.
That's something the GPL 3, Microsoft's open source license, and many other's cover.
That fact that BSD doesn't do this makes it a stupid license to use.I'm sure there are many other examples, however I'm done wasting time on yet another uninformed BSD user posting as AC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474472</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474288</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1268558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Going off on not wanting to be called a troll without explaining <i>why</i> GPL is so troublesome to you doesn't help the discussion that you're supposedly trying to have here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Going off on not wanting to be called a troll without explaining why GPL is so troublesome to you does n't help the discussion that you 're supposedly trying to have here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Going off on not wanting to be called a troll without explaining why GPL is so troublesome to you doesn't help the discussion that you're supposedly trying to have here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474304</id>
	<title>Re:Ego</title>
	<author>WrongSizeGlass</author>
	<datestamp>1268558700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I try to avoid the rabid advocates who seem to think (or at least they project) that using <i>anything</i> that isn't open source is some kind of affront to the entire open source movement. <br> <br>
Sorry guys 'n gals, but sometimes I need something <i>now</i> and can't wait for it to be included, supported or fixed in an open source solution. My clients aren't patient and don't really care about the necessity for creating an equal playing field for all software developers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I try to avoid the rabid advocates who seem to think ( or at least they project ) that using anything that is n't open source is some kind of affront to the entire open source movement .
Sorry guys 'n gals , but sometimes I need something now and ca n't wait for it to be included , supported or fixed in an open source solution .
My clients are n't patient and do n't really care about the necessity for creating an equal playing field for all software developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I try to avoid the rabid advocates who seem to think (or at least they project) that using anything that isn't open source is some kind of affront to the entire open source movement.
Sorry guys 'n gals, but sometimes I need something now and can't wait for it to be included, supported or fixed in an open source solution.
My clients aren't patient and don't really care about the necessity for creating an equal playing field for all software developers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474612</id>
	<title>Re:Trivia</title>
	<author>nicc777</author>
	<datestamp>1268561280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you paid for it, you might as well use it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you paid for it , you might as well use it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you paid for it, you might as well use it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474140</id>
	<title>The BSD license</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268557380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I refuse to allow my work to be turned into a proprietary codebase which won't allow me to copy it freely in turn.  Fight fir with fire.  I'll use BSD code, but I will never submit a line of code to such a project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I refuse to allow my work to be turned into a proprietary codebase which wo n't allow me to copy it freely in turn .
Fight fir with fire .
I 'll use BSD code , but I will never submit a line of code to such a project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I refuse to allow my work to be turned into a proprietary codebase which won't allow me to copy it freely in turn.
Fight fir with fire.
I'll use BSD code, but I will never submit a line of code to such a project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474168</id>
	<title>Trivia</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1268557560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm struck by two small things that  make me wonder.  First, you seem to be using HTTPS for pages that don't need it; not an optimal config. Second, the first project you discuss is a text mode email client!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm struck by two small things that make me wonder .
First , you seem to be using HTTPS for pages that do n't need it ; not an optimal config .
Second , the first project you discuss is a text mode email client !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm struck by two small things that  make me wonder.
First, you seem to be using HTTPS for pages that don't need it; not an optimal config.
Second, the first project you discuss is a text mode email client!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</id>
	<title>Unreproducible bugs</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1268558820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What are the parts that, in your projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?</p></div><p>How about unreproducible bugs?</p><p>I hate the whole situation.</p><p>The bug reports; "Uh, I got an error or something when I tried to run it" "OK, what was the error" "I don't know" "So how do you know theres a problem?"</p><p>Failing to reproduce the error.  This ties in with the "prove a negative" problem.  When to give up?  Just document what I'm doing and hope for the best, I guess.</p><p>Problems that are probably specification failures but you can't prove it.  Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something, but no one is entirely certain what.  Even funnier when there isn't really a spec, just kind of a goal.  Best of all, when two groups make opposing policy decisions and want you to consider each other's design to be a bug.</p><p>When to close out the hopeless bug.  Well, it doesn't hurt anything to keep it open.  But bean counters like easily counted beans, like how many open bugs.  Will I insult the submitter by closing it?  Some 3rd party weirdos like to get involved at that stage, "I'm morally superior to you because I never give up on a bug like you did, ha ha ha" while the reality of the situation is they merely have more spare time, a poor self image, and a desire to very publicly display it.  aka the "ticket ss" "I am morally superior and I say we will have order here!  Order!  Achtung!"</p><p>Finally, last but not least, circumstantially, crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people.  Don't know if they're more ornery so the tend to report more, or more creative so they tend to find more, but I do know they're a pain to deal with.</p><p>Other than that, its not so bad.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What are the parts that , in your projects , you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you ? How about unreproducible bugs ? I hate the whole situation.The bug reports ; " Uh , I got an error or something when I tried to run it " " OK , what was the error " " I do n't know " " So how do you know theres a problem ?
" Failing to reproduce the error .
This ties in with the " prove a negative " problem .
When to give up ?
Just document what I 'm doing and hope for the best , I guess.Problems that are probably specification failures but you ca n't prove it .
Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something , but no one is entirely certain what .
Even funnier when there is n't really a spec , just kind of a goal .
Best of all , when two groups make opposing policy decisions and want you to consider each other 's design to be a bug.When to close out the hopeless bug .
Well , it does n't hurt anything to keep it open .
But bean counters like easily counted beans , like how many open bugs .
Will I insult the submitter by closing it ?
Some 3rd party weirdos like to get involved at that stage , " I 'm morally superior to you because I never give up on a bug like you did , ha ha ha " while the reality of the situation is they merely have more spare time , a poor self image , and a desire to very publicly display it .
aka the " ticket ss " " I am morally superior and I say we will have order here !
Order ! Achtung !
" Finally , last but not least , circumstantially , crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people .
Do n't know if they 're more ornery so the tend to report more , or more creative so they tend to find more , but I do know they 're a pain to deal with.Other than that , its not so bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are the parts that, in your projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?How about unreproducible bugs?I hate the whole situation.The bug reports; "Uh, I got an error or something when I tried to run it" "OK, what was the error" "I don't know" "So how do you know theres a problem?
"Failing to reproduce the error.
This ties in with the "prove a negative" problem.
When to give up?
Just document what I'm doing and hope for the best, I guess.Problems that are probably specification failures but you can't prove it.
Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something, but no one is entirely certain what.
Even funnier when there isn't really a spec, just kind of a goal.
Best of all, when two groups make opposing policy decisions and want you to consider each other's design to be a bug.When to close out the hopeless bug.
Well, it doesn't hurt anything to keep it open.
But bean counters like easily counted beans, like how many open bugs.
Will I insult the submitter by closing it?
Some 3rd party weirdos like to get involved at that stage, "I'm morally superior to you because I never give up on a bug like you did, ha ha ha" while the reality of the situation is they merely have more spare time, a poor self image, and a desire to very publicly display it.
aka the "ticket ss" "I am morally superior and I say we will have order here!
Order!  Achtung!
"Finally, last but not least, circumstantially, crazy/insane people seem to encounter more unreproducible bugs than typical people.
Don't know if they're more ornery so the tend to report more, or more creative so they tend to find more, but I do know they're a pain to deal with.Other than that, its not so bad.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31479542</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268649480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had a 300k and a 500k UID. I don't use them because I forgot the logins a long time ago. Maybe you men should cut the crap with this obsession with UID size--among <i>other</i> sizes. Having a high UID does not mean you're new to slashdot or I.T. nor does it invalidate your opinions and comments.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a 300k and a 500k UID .
I do n't use them because I forgot the logins a long time ago .
Maybe you men should cut the crap with this obsession with UID size--among other sizes .
Having a high UID does not mean you 're new to slashdot or I.T .
nor does it invalidate your opinions and comments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a 300k and a 500k UID.
I don't use them because I forgot the logins a long time ago.
Maybe you men should cut the crap with this obsession with UID size--among other sizes.
Having a high UID does not mean you're new to slashdot or I.T.
nor does it invalidate your opinions and comments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474154</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>mikael\_j</author>
	<datestamp>1268557440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget the obligatory #projectname-help channel where any questions are answered with some variation on "RTFM" even though the project documentation is a standard README file, a CHANGELOG file, some GPL info and an uncommented listing of the various classes and functions that's seemingly intended for those actually developing the software (and which is practically useless to the end user even when the end user is another developer since knowing there a Foo class, a Bar class and Frongle class doesn't really help when you're trying to figure out how to use the library/app in a safe and sane way).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget the obligatory # projectname-help channel where any questions are answered with some variation on " RTFM " even though the project documentation is a standard README file , a CHANGELOG file , some GPL info and an uncommented listing of the various classes and functions that 's seemingly intended for those actually developing the software ( and which is practically useless to the end user even when the end user is another developer since knowing there a Foo class , a Bar class and Frongle class does n't really help when you 're trying to figure out how to use the library/app in a safe and sane way ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget the obligatory #projectname-help channel where any questions are answered with some variation on "RTFM" even though the project documentation is a standard README file, a CHANGELOG file, some GPL info and an uncommented listing of the various classes and functions that's seemingly intended for those actually developing the software (and which is practically useless to the end user even when the end user is another developer since knowing there a Foo class, a Bar class and Frongle class doesn't really help when you're trying to figure out how to use the library/app in a safe and sane way).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478030</id>
	<title>RTFM</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1268586180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hey now, we cannot have it both ways.  If we want to push community support, that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over again</p></div><p>We do answer again and again. We've got it down to a fine art. A single answer: RTFM!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey now , we can not have it both ways .
If we want to push community support , that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over againWe do answer again and again .
We 've got it down to a fine art .
A single answer : RTFM !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey now, we cannot have it both ways.
If we want to push community support, that means that we have to be ready to answer the same novice questions over and over againWe do answer again and again.
We've got it down to a fine art.
A single answer: RTFM!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31490008</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1268659200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You completely missed my point, put words in my mouth (where did I say they were "dumb?"), and you are mischaracterizing libre operating systems.  Nobody has to choose between different package managers, except if they want to try out different distros -- each distro is, really, a different operating system, albeit one that is very similar to the other distros.  If you install Fedora, as an example, you only ever use rpm as the package manager, and you get friendly tools like PackageKit to help you manage your software with rpm as the back end.<br> <br>

The problem that I was pointing out was that most Windows and Mac OS users simply have no concept of a package manager.  The closest Windows gets is MSI, which is only really used by a handful of vendors, and which most users are not really aware of (yes, hidden in the "control panel," at least back in the days of XP, there is a program that allows you to uninstall the programs on your system -- roughly half of what a package manager does in Linux distros).  Mac OS has fink, which is only used by a minority of particularly technical users.  The fact of the matter is, most Windows and Mac OS users have been conditioned to think that software installation involves either obtaining a disc of some sort, or going to a website to download an installer program.  Looking at a repository is not even a concept for them, and no matter how friendly package managers become, that initial hurdle is a serious problem when it comes to the adoption of libre operating systems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You completely missed my point , put words in my mouth ( where did I say they were " dumb ?
" ) , and you are mischaracterizing libre operating systems .
Nobody has to choose between different package managers , except if they want to try out different distros -- each distro is , really , a different operating system , albeit one that is very similar to the other distros .
If you install Fedora , as an example , you only ever use rpm as the package manager , and you get friendly tools like PackageKit to help you manage your software with rpm as the back end .
The problem that I was pointing out was that most Windows and Mac OS users simply have no concept of a package manager .
The closest Windows gets is MSI , which is only really used by a handful of vendors , and which most users are not really aware of ( yes , hidden in the " control panel , " at least back in the days of XP , there is a program that allows you to uninstall the programs on your system -- roughly half of what a package manager does in Linux distros ) .
Mac OS has fink , which is only used by a minority of particularly technical users .
The fact of the matter is , most Windows and Mac OS users have been conditioned to think that software installation involves either obtaining a disc of some sort , or going to a website to download an installer program .
Looking at a repository is not even a concept for them , and no matter how friendly package managers become , that initial hurdle is a serious problem when it comes to the adoption of libre operating systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You completely missed my point, put words in my mouth (where did I say they were "dumb?
"), and you are mischaracterizing libre operating systems.
Nobody has to choose between different package managers, except if they want to try out different distros -- each distro is, really, a different operating system, albeit one that is very similar to the other distros.
If you install Fedora, as an example, you only ever use rpm as the package manager, and you get friendly tools like PackageKit to help you manage your software with rpm as the back end.
The problem that I was pointing out was that most Windows and Mac OS users simply have no concept of a package manager.
The closest Windows gets is MSI, which is only really used by a handful of vendors, and which most users are not really aware of (yes, hidden in the "control panel," at least back in the days of XP, there is a program that allows you to uninstall the programs on your system -- roughly half of what a package manager does in Linux distros).
Mac OS has fink, which is only used by a minority of particularly technical users.
The fact of the matter is, most Windows and Mac OS users have been conditioned to think that software installation involves either obtaining a disc of some sort, or going to a website to download an installer program.
Looking at a repository is not even a concept for them, and no matter how friendly package managers become, that initial hurdle is a serious problem when it comes to the adoption of libre operating systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474472</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268560200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what you are saying is that you object to people stealing your imaginary property?</p><p>How does them stealing it diminish your enjoyment of it?</p><p>If 1000 people steal your code, do you have 1000 less code?</p><p>etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what you are saying is that you object to people stealing your imaginary property ? How does them stealing it diminish your enjoyment of it ? If 1000 people steal your code , do you have 1000 less code ? etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what you are saying is that you object to people stealing your imaginary property?How does them stealing it diminish your enjoyment of it?If 1000 people steal your code, do you have 1000 less code?etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474156</id>
	<title>Re:The GPL.</title>
	<author>carlhaagen</author>
	<datestamp>1268557500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems my own post was a bit late. I, too, steer well clear of GPL, in favor of f.e. BSD and zlib.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems my own post was a bit late .
I , too , steer well clear of GPL , in favor of f.e .
BSD and zlib .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems my own post was a bit late.
I, too, steer well clear of GPL, in favor of f.e.
BSD and zlib.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474242</id>
	<title>Re:Ego</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268558220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real question is "Why does MIT even have a fucking waitlist if they haven't used it for the past three years?".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real question is " Why does MIT even have a fucking waitlist if they have n't used it for the past three years ?
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real question is "Why does MIT even have a fucking waitlist if they haven't used it for the past three years?
".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478434</id>
	<title>My most hated</title>
	<author>BillX</author>
	<datestamp>1268591520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends on the size of the project. I haven't worked on any large-scale projects, so I can only really give a perspective from one-man itchscratch programs to those with a dev team of 3 or so... my least favorite parts:</p><p>1) Documentation<br>I write it, and try to make it informative, but...people don't read it. Certainly some do, but there is that percentage who quit reading (and start emailing you questions that are answered in the friendly manual) because the documentation is too technical, and that other percentage who quit reading at the 3rd page because it isn't technical enough. And you also have to assume some minimum level of proficiency for you user/implementor, which is just a guess at best (and the skill level of the userbase may change dramatically as the project progresses or it gains popularity/promotion in specific circles, think "featured on AOL News"). You can't really include an entire semester of CS101 in your documentation. Not even to mention all the users that cry at you because they speak a language you don't, and you haven't provided a Turkish/etc. version.</p><p>Which leads into...<br>2) Tech Support<br>I don't just mean the emails from users who didn't/couldn't RTFM (you can use the delete button for this, at the expense of disgruntled users publicly slamming your project/self/lineage), but the gruntwork of providing support infrastructure. Somebody's gotta keep on top of the spammers in the forums and wiki you set up. Somebody's got to keep up with the patches / security advisories on them, and clean up the mess when they get hacked. Somebody's got to staff the IRC channel, if applicable.</p><p>3) PR<br>Of course, if you don't stop coding and start pumping the project, nobody's going to know about it. Who is a great coder, excellent technical writer AND a people person? Or marketing person, for that matter. This might well be my least favorite task.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on the size of the project .
I have n't worked on any large-scale projects , so I can only really give a perspective from one-man itchscratch programs to those with a dev team of 3 or so... my least favorite parts : 1 ) DocumentationI write it , and try to make it informative , but...people do n't read it .
Certainly some do , but there is that percentage who quit reading ( and start emailing you questions that are answered in the friendly manual ) because the documentation is too technical , and that other percentage who quit reading at the 3rd page because it is n't technical enough .
And you also have to assume some minimum level of proficiency for you user/implementor , which is just a guess at best ( and the skill level of the userbase may change dramatically as the project progresses or it gains popularity/promotion in specific circles , think " featured on AOL News " ) .
You ca n't really include an entire semester of CS101 in your documentation .
Not even to mention all the users that cry at you because they speak a language you do n't , and you have n't provided a Turkish/etc .
version.Which leads into...2 ) Tech SupportI do n't just mean the emails from users who did n't/could n't RTFM ( you can use the delete button for this , at the expense of disgruntled users publicly slamming your project/self/lineage ) , but the gruntwork of providing support infrastructure .
Somebody 's got ta keep on top of the spammers in the forums and wiki you set up .
Somebody 's got to keep up with the patches / security advisories on them , and clean up the mess when they get hacked .
Somebody 's got to staff the IRC channel , if applicable.3 ) PROf course , if you do n't stop coding and start pumping the project , nobody 's going to know about it .
Who is a great coder , excellent technical writer AND a people person ?
Or marketing person , for that matter .
This might well be my least favorite task .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on the size of the project.
I haven't worked on any large-scale projects, so I can only really give a perspective from one-man itchscratch programs to those with a dev team of 3 or so... my least favorite parts:1) DocumentationI write it, and try to make it informative, but...people don't read it.
Certainly some do, but there is that percentage who quit reading (and start emailing you questions that are answered in the friendly manual) because the documentation is too technical, and that other percentage who quit reading at the 3rd page because it isn't technical enough.
And you also have to assume some minimum level of proficiency for you user/implementor, which is just a guess at best (and the skill level of the userbase may change dramatically as the project progresses or it gains popularity/promotion in specific circles, think "featured on AOL News").
You can't really include an entire semester of CS101 in your documentation.
Not even to mention all the users that cry at you because they speak a language you don't, and you haven't provided a Turkish/etc.
version.Which leads into...2) Tech SupportI don't just mean the emails from users who didn't/couldn't RTFM (you can use the delete button for this, at the expense of disgruntled users publicly slamming your project/self/lineage), but the gruntwork of providing support infrastructure.
Somebody's gotta keep on top of the spammers in the forums and wiki you set up.
Somebody's got to keep up with the patches / security advisories on them, and clean up the mess when they get hacked.
Somebody's got to staff the IRC channel, if applicable.3) PROf course, if you don't stop coding and start pumping the project, nobody's going to know about it.
Who is a great coder, excellent technical writer AND a people person?
Or marketing person, for that matter.
This might well be my least favorite task.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474654</id>
	<title>Outsourcing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268561640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This site is going to reveal certain kinds of project coding that generally disliked and thus understaffed. These sections could be hired out to coders and students in places like India, and really anywhere a student needs to make a little extra to cover rent or beer fund. Something like set up a little donation service to offer a gratuity for dealing with unloved gruntwork.</p><p>Could also offer a swap. Senior coders can offer to mentor students willing to push through these sections.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This site is going to reveal certain kinds of project coding that generally disliked and thus understaffed .
These sections could be hired out to coders and students in places like India , and really anywhere a student needs to make a little extra to cover rent or beer fund .
Something like set up a little donation service to offer a gratuity for dealing with unloved gruntwork.Could also offer a swap .
Senior coders can offer to mentor students willing to push through these sections .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This site is going to reveal certain kinds of project coding that generally disliked and thus understaffed.
These sections could be hired out to coders and students in places like India, and really anywhere a student needs to make a little extra to cover rent or beer fund.
Something like set up a little donation service to offer a gratuity for dealing with unloved gruntwork.Could also offer a swap.
Senior coders can offer to mentor students willing to push through these sections.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31486056</id>
	<title>Re:RTFM</title>
	<author>smi.james.th</author>
	<datestamp>1268684580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Fine Manual isn't always that good, though, and it's not always that easy to find in the first place.  I've got a fair amount of experience with *nix and "man " sometimes even confuses me... "I just want to know what the  option does!!!" or "What the config file is called!!!"  A lot of people I know weren't even aware that such a thing as "man" existed, and when I've told them about it, a lot have said similar things to what I've just expressed, often man pages are very technical and don't answer obvious questions.  (Obvious to my mind anyway...)
<br> <br>
I'd be willing to bet that a lot of new users wouldn't be able to get that far.  I've had experience recently of a friend who is new on linux calling me just about every week to come to fix something that he doesn't know how to do, he's not a stupid chap, but it seems as though a lot of things that were obvious to me just weren't to him.  F/LOSS is sort of lacking in the documentation front, just in my experience...</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Fine Manual is n't always that good , though , and it 's not always that easy to find in the first place .
I 've got a fair amount of experience with * nix and " man " sometimes even confuses me... " I just want to know what the option does ! ! !
" or " What the config file is called ! ! !
" A lot of people I know were n't even aware that such a thing as " man " existed , and when I 've told them about it , a lot have said similar things to what I 've just expressed , often man pages are very technical and do n't answer obvious questions .
( Obvious to my mind anyway... ) I 'd be willing to bet that a lot of new users would n't be able to get that far .
I 've had experience recently of a friend who is new on linux calling me just about every week to come to fix something that he does n't know how to do , he 's not a stupid chap , but it seems as though a lot of things that were obvious to me just were n't to him .
F/LOSS is sort of lacking in the documentation front , just in my experience.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Fine Manual isn't always that good, though, and it's not always that easy to find in the first place.
I've got a fair amount of experience with *nix and "man " sometimes even confuses me... "I just want to know what the  option does!!!
" or "What the config file is called!!!
"  A lot of people I know weren't even aware that such a thing as "man" existed, and when I've told them about it, a lot have said similar things to what I've just expressed, often man pages are very technical and don't answer obvious questions.
(Obvious to my mind anyway...)
 
I'd be willing to bet that a lot of new users wouldn't be able to get that far.
I've had experience recently of a friend who is new on linux calling me just about every week to come to fix something that he doesn't know how to do, he's not a stupid chap, but it seems as though a lot of things that were obvious to me just weren't to him.
F/LOSS is sort of lacking in the documentation front, just in my experience...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31479784</id>
	<title>Also true from a programmer's perspective</title>
	<author>GreatBunzinni</author>
	<datestamp>1268651940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run a couple of small FLOSS projects and I have to confess that producing documentation is by far the most painful task that I need to accomplish.  It basically demands that you put down in writing something which, as you've just spent a considerable slice of time which may amount to years writing it, to your own eyes is so blindingly obvious to use that you shouldn't be wasting your time writing about it.  Adding to that, it's frustrating to document code because as the source code is easily accessible anyone can just fire up a text editor and read it.</p><p>To make matters worse, sometimes you are forced to rewrite a portion of your code.  When you do that, if you already have some documentation written then you are forced to go back, find any reference to that particular behaviour and rewrite it to reflect your changes.  And pray to God that you don't have to yet again rewrite everything all over again (or write a new copy of the docs) to reflect a minor version.  Tools like Doxygen do help mitigate this problem but they are only good enough to handle code references, and they do that at expense of filling the project with long winded comments which, if you happen to use an editor which doesn't support code folding all that well, make up reading and writing code a bit needlessly complicated.</p><p>Ignoring some other nasty aspects of writing/maintaining a documentation, at least to me documentation boils down to wasting your time.  It's a task which doesn't have any noticeable positive feedback and it always feels like you are completely wasting your time with fluff tasks.  After all, if you've written an excellent documentation then your users will simply read it and go on with their lives while you never get to hear about it.</p><p>But although that's my personal view regarding producing documentation I also understand the need for it.  It's extremely important to provide (and also have available) a decent documentation.  Without it your users (and sometimes even you) are left disoriented and forced to waste time with basic things.  But that won't make the job of generating it any more enjoyable than it already is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run a couple of small FLOSS projects and I have to confess that producing documentation is by far the most painful task that I need to accomplish .
It basically demands that you put down in writing something which , as you 've just spent a considerable slice of time which may amount to years writing it , to your own eyes is so blindingly obvious to use that you should n't be wasting your time writing about it .
Adding to that , it 's frustrating to document code because as the source code is easily accessible anyone can just fire up a text editor and read it.To make matters worse , sometimes you are forced to rewrite a portion of your code .
When you do that , if you already have some documentation written then you are forced to go back , find any reference to that particular behaviour and rewrite it to reflect your changes .
And pray to God that you do n't have to yet again rewrite everything all over again ( or write a new copy of the docs ) to reflect a minor version .
Tools like Doxygen do help mitigate this problem but they are only good enough to handle code references , and they do that at expense of filling the project with long winded comments which , if you happen to use an editor which does n't support code folding all that well , make up reading and writing code a bit needlessly complicated.Ignoring some other nasty aspects of writing/maintaining a documentation , at least to me documentation boils down to wasting your time .
It 's a task which does n't have any noticeable positive feedback and it always feels like you are completely wasting your time with fluff tasks .
After all , if you 've written an excellent documentation then your users will simply read it and go on with their lives while you never get to hear about it.But although that 's my personal view regarding producing documentation I also understand the need for it .
It 's extremely important to provide ( and also have available ) a decent documentation .
Without it your users ( and sometimes even you ) are left disoriented and forced to waste time with basic things .
But that wo n't make the job of generating it any more enjoyable than it already is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run a couple of small FLOSS projects and I have to confess that producing documentation is by far the most painful task that I need to accomplish.
It basically demands that you put down in writing something which, as you've just spent a considerable slice of time which may amount to years writing it, to your own eyes is so blindingly obvious to use that you shouldn't be wasting your time writing about it.
Adding to that, it's frustrating to document code because as the source code is easily accessible anyone can just fire up a text editor and read it.To make matters worse, sometimes you are forced to rewrite a portion of your code.
When you do that, if you already have some documentation written then you are forced to go back, find any reference to that particular behaviour and rewrite it to reflect your changes.
And pray to God that you don't have to yet again rewrite everything all over again (or write a new copy of the docs) to reflect a minor version.
Tools like Doxygen do help mitigate this problem but they are only good enough to handle code references, and they do that at expense of filling the project with long winded comments which, if you happen to use an editor which doesn't support code folding all that well, make up reading and writing code a bit needlessly complicated.Ignoring some other nasty aspects of writing/maintaining a documentation, at least to me documentation boils down to wasting your time.
It's a task which doesn't have any noticeable positive feedback and it always feels like you are completely wasting your time with fluff tasks.
After all, if you've written an excellent documentation then your users will simply read it and go on with their lives while you never get to hear about it.But although that's my personal view regarding producing documentation I also understand the need for it.
It's extremely important to provide (and also have available) a decent documentation.
Without it your users (and sometimes even you) are left disoriented and forced to waste time with basic things.
But that won't make the job of generating it any more enjoyable than it already is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478038</id>
	<title>...and the answer is:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268586300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Getting them to build successfully after first downloading the source.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting them to build successfully after first downloading the source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting them to build successfully after first downloading the source.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474668</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1268561760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not necessarily "we", though, slightly more knowledgeable newbies work just as well. In fact that's how large communities tend to operate in the long run, CmdrTaco doesn't go on spreading Slashdot's standards of netiquette to the ~1.5m UID newbies, it's the ~1m UIDs who do so who were in turn trained by us 900k'ers, which we learnt from the 700k'ers and so on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not necessarily " we " , though , slightly more knowledgeable newbies work just as well .
In fact that 's how large communities tend to operate in the long run , CmdrTaco does n't go on spreading Slashdot 's standards of netiquette to the ~ 1.5m UID newbies , it 's the ~ 1m UIDs who do so who were in turn trained by us 900k'ers , which we learnt from the 700k'ers and so on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not necessarily "we", though, slightly more knowledgeable newbies work just as well.
In fact that's how large communities tend to operate in the long run, CmdrTaco doesn't go on spreading Slashdot's standards of netiquette to the ~1.5m UID newbies, it's the ~1m UIDs who do so who were in turn trained by us 900k'ers, which we learnt from the 700k'ers and so on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31476466</id>
	<title>Sorry, to say i've avoided Open Source entirely</title>
	<author>physburn</author>
	<datestamp>1268574240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>  I like downloading and using free software, but i liked my time to be payed for. So
in 27 years of programming (since age 12), i've never writing anything to be open sourced.
This is very ungratful of me, but i can't see me becoming less greedy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like downloading and using free software , but i liked my time to be payed for .
So in 27 years of programming ( since age 12 ) , i 've never writing anything to be open sourced .
This is very ungratful of me , but i ca n't see me becoming less greedy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  I like downloading and using free software, but i liked my time to be payed for.
So
in 27 years of programming (since age 12), i've never writing anything to be open sourced.
This is very ungratful of me, but i can't see me becoming less greedy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474812</id>
	<title>Re:OF COURSE you don't put GPL code on your projec</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268562600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very hard, apparently.</p><p>Lets say I'm developing a webapp for a client.  Standard LAMP stack, and the frontend uses ExtJS.</p><p>I'm giving my client sourcecode, and they in turn are running the webapp publically.</p><p>Since I'm giving them sourcecode, does MySQL's GPL license require me to license it as GPL, even though my client is not going to redistribute it?<br>What about ExtJS's sourcecode that is also GPL? The only thing it links to is other javascript on the site, all of which is of course sent out in sourcecode format as theres no other way to do it. But does the 'linking clause' stop at javascript interaction, or does anything I use XMLHTTPRequests to access  count as linking? If it does then my client would need to release sourcecode, which ExtJS's site seems to imply is the case. But if that is true it would become illegal to use GPLed javascript to do ajax requests to any public API that isn't GPL.</p><p>This is all asusming a public webapp. What if its an inhouse tool? Does that remove the requirements of redistribution?</p><p>I won't even get into the gray area that is TiVo, but if the GPL wasn't "hard to follow" they wouldn't have had to rewrite it to clarify Stallman's stance of some issues that came up. Which as a GPLv2 project, you may or may not agree with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very hard , apparently.Lets say I 'm developing a webapp for a client .
Standard LAMP stack , and the frontend uses ExtJS.I 'm giving my client sourcecode , and they in turn are running the webapp publically.Since I 'm giving them sourcecode , does MySQL 's GPL license require me to license it as GPL , even though my client is not going to redistribute it ? What about ExtJS 's sourcecode that is also GPL ?
The only thing it links to is other javascript on the site , all of which is of course sent out in sourcecode format as theres no other way to do it .
But does the 'linking clause ' stop at javascript interaction , or does anything I use XMLHTTPRequests to access count as linking ?
If it does then my client would need to release sourcecode , which ExtJS 's site seems to imply is the case .
But if that is true it would become illegal to use GPLed javascript to do ajax requests to any public API that is n't GPL.This is all asusming a public webapp .
What if its an inhouse tool ?
Does that remove the requirements of redistribution ? I wo n't even get into the gray area that is TiVo , but if the GPL was n't " hard to follow " they would n't have had to rewrite it to clarify Stallman 's stance of some issues that came up .
Which as a GPLv2 project , you may or may not agree with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very hard, apparently.Lets say I'm developing a webapp for a client.
Standard LAMP stack, and the frontend uses ExtJS.I'm giving my client sourcecode, and they in turn are running the webapp publically.Since I'm giving them sourcecode, does MySQL's GPL license require me to license it as GPL, even though my client is not going to redistribute it?What about ExtJS's sourcecode that is also GPL?
The only thing it links to is other javascript on the site, all of which is of course sent out in sourcecode format as theres no other way to do it.
But does the 'linking clause' stop at javascript interaction, or does anything I use XMLHTTPRequests to access  count as linking?
If it does then my client would need to release sourcecode, which ExtJS's site seems to imply is the case.
But if that is true it would become illegal to use GPLed javascript to do ajax requests to any public API that isn't GPL.This is all asusming a public webapp.
What if its an inhouse tool?
Does that remove the requirements of redistribution?I won't even get into the gray area that is TiVo, but if the GPL wasn't "hard to follow" they wouldn't have had to rewrite it to clarify Stallman's stance of some issues that came up.
Which as a GPLv2 project, you may or may not agree with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474396</id>
	<title>Re:Thanks for Slashdotting me</title>
	<author>c0d3g33k</author>
	<datestamp>1268559600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Thanks for <b>visiting my blog as I requested when I submitted my Ask Slashdot question</b></p> </div><p>There, fixed that for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for visiting my blog as I requested when I submitted my Ask Slashdot question There , fixed that for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for visiting my blog as I requested when I submitted my Ask Slashdot question There, fixed that for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474326</id>
	<title>Re:Thanks for Slashdotting me</title>
	<author>multipart/mixed</author>
	<datestamp>1268558880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you make your stew without beef, do not complain that it is not filling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you make your stew without beef , do not complain that it is not filling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you make your stew without beef, do not complain that it is not filling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474212</id>
	<title>Someone avoided performance optimizations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268557920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Someone avoided performance optimizations on openhatch.org<br>If you have tough time deciding if you should do those, ask slashdot - that will clear up things!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone avoided performance optimizations on openhatch.orgIf you have tough time deciding if you should do those , ask slashdot - that will clear up things !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone avoided performance optimizations on openhatch.orgIf you have tough time deciding if you should do those, ask slashdot - that will clear up things!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474302</id>
	<title>avoiding reality altogether</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268558640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as in avoiding the source code of life.</p><p>never a better time to consult with/trust in your creators, providing more than enough of everything for everybody since/until forever, without any distracting personal gain motives, using an unlimited supply of way user friendly newclear power. the 'code' of which is freely (as in total freedom forever) available to all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as in avoiding the source code of life.never a better time to consult with/trust in your creators , providing more than enough of everything for everybody since/until forever , without any distracting personal gain motives , using an unlimited supply of way user friendly newclear power .
the 'code ' of which is freely ( as in total freedom forever ) available to all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as in avoiding the source code of life.never a better time to consult with/trust in your creators, providing more than enough of everything for everybody since/until forever, without any distracting personal gain motives, using an unlimited supply of way user friendly newclear power.
the 'code' of which is freely (as in total freedom forever) available to all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474848</id>
	<title>Re:real hackers don't dread</title>
	<author>CODiNE</author>
	<datestamp>1268562780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Beautiful Code - Chapter 28 "Automated Debugging"</p><p>Why aren't we all using that eh? Incredible stuff, data-mining CVS commits and nailing the exact line that causes the bugs.</p><p>Beautiful Code indeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Beautiful Code - Chapter 28 " Automated Debugging " Why are n't we all using that eh ?
Incredible stuff , data-mining CVS commits and nailing the exact line that causes the bugs.Beautiful Code indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Beautiful Code - Chapter 28 "Automated Debugging"Why aren't we all using that eh?
Incredible stuff, data-mining CVS commits and nailing the exact line that causes the bugs.Beautiful Code indeed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474166</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268557560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thank you, finally someone else that views GPL as troublesome. BSD liscense is the way to go.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you , finally someone else that views GPL as troublesome .
BSD liscense is the way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you, finally someone else that views GPL as troublesome.
BSD liscense is the way to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475178</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Snaller</author>
	<datestamp>1268564580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could make documentation....</p><p>One of the reasons I avoid all this open source stuff is that most of it is badly documented, and quite often there is an almost hostile tone towards people "Just learn unix you scrubs" - no thank you.<br>If you want your stuff to be used by a lot make simple instructions and a userfriendly interface - if you just make it for your self feel free to ignore this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could make documentation....One of the reasons I avoid all this open source stuff is that most of it is badly documented , and quite often there is an almost hostile tone towards people " Just learn unix you scrubs " - no thank you.If you want your stuff to be used by a lot make simple instructions and a userfriendly interface - if you just make it for your self feel free to ignore this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could make documentation....One of the reasons I avoid all this open source stuff is that most of it is badly documented, and quite often there is an almost hostile tone towards people "Just learn unix you scrubs" - no thank you.If you want your stuff to be used by a lot make simple instructions and a userfriendly interface - if you just make it for your self feel free to ignore this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474624</id>
	<title>Redirects and aggressive caching</title>
	<author>paulproteus</author>
	<datestamp>1268561400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can all read the links now, thanks to Coral cache for the blog post, and memcached on our server.</p><p>Whee!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can all read the links now , thanks to Coral cache for the blog post , and memcached on our server.Whee !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can all read the links now, thanks to Coral cache for the blog post, and memcached on our server.Whee!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31477786</id>
	<title>Re:From a user perspective</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1268584320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too true.</p><p>Hey! Unemployed tech writer here! Anybody got something juicy for me to work on? I particularly enjoy API references and programming guides.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too true.Hey !
Unemployed tech writer here !
Anybody got something juicy for me to work on ?
I particularly enjoy API references and programming guides .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too true.Hey!
Unemployed tech writer here!
Anybody got something juicy for me to work on?
I particularly enjoy API references and programming guides.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31479816</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Waccoon</author>
	<datestamp>1268652180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"How do I install <b>(something not included with my distro)</b>"</p></div><p>Compiling software is not for the faint of heart.</p><p>What the open source community needs to understand is that distributing source code, because binaries are EVIL, isn't the ideal way to appeal to the casual market.  Distros can't include and support everything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" How do I install ( something not included with my distro ) " Compiling software is not for the faint of heart.What the open source community needs to understand is that distributing source code , because binaries are EVIL , is n't the ideal way to appeal to the casual market .
Distros ca n't include and support everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How do I install (something not included with my distro)"Compiling software is not for the faint of heart.What the open source community needs to understand is that distributing source code, because binaries are EVIL, isn't the ideal way to appeal to the casual market.
Distros can't include and support everything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475312</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268565480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.  In fact, we should being doing it more often.</p></div><p>This is why I pine for the days when USENET newsgroups were the place to ask questions and receive solid answers. The plethora of forum software and the rapid growth of SPAM on USENET really killed the single best means of communication.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We may find it annoying , but we absolutely should not avoid it .
In fact , we should being doing it more often.This is why I pine for the days when USENET newsgroups were the place to ask questions and receive solid answers .
The plethora of forum software and the rapid growth of SPAM on USENET really killed the single best means of communication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We may find it annoying, but we absolutely should not avoid it.
In fact, we should being doing it more often.This is why I pine for the days when USENET newsgroups were the place to ask questions and receive solid answers.
The plethora of forum software and the rapid growth of SPAM on USENET really killed the single best means of communication.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31489618</id>
	<title>Packaging</title>
	<author>RAMMS+EIN</author>
	<datestamp>1268656980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's interesting that nobody else seems to have said it yet, but here goes:</p><p>What I avoid when working on open source projects is packaging. I'll do design. I'll write documentation. I'll write the code. I'll find and fix bugs. I'll communicate with users. I'll make it as easy as I know how to to get the program working on your system.</p><p>But I avoid making a package for any one particular system.</p><p>It would probably greatly improve how easy it is to get started with a particular program, but I still can't seem to get myself to do it. Whenever I create a package, it always feels like I'm taking sides, like the platform I'm making a package for is somehow more favored by me than other platforms. And the few times I have created packages, they have not been included in any of the canonical repositories. So nowadays, I pretty much don't bother anymore.</p><p>Even though I think that, <a href="http://inglorion.net/software/detach/" title="inglorion.net">detach</a> [inglorion.net], in particular, would really make a great addition to every Unix-like operating system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's interesting that nobody else seems to have said it yet , but here goes : What I avoid when working on open source projects is packaging .
I 'll do design .
I 'll write documentation .
I 'll write the code .
I 'll find and fix bugs .
I 'll communicate with users .
I 'll make it as easy as I know how to to get the program working on your system.But I avoid making a package for any one particular system.It would probably greatly improve how easy it is to get started with a particular program , but I still ca n't seem to get myself to do it .
Whenever I create a package , it always feels like I 'm taking sides , like the platform I 'm making a package for is somehow more favored by me than other platforms .
And the few times I have created packages , they have not been included in any of the canonical repositories .
So nowadays , I pretty much do n't bother anymore.Even though I think that , detach [ inglorion.net ] , in particular , would really make a great addition to every Unix-like operating system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's interesting that nobody else seems to have said it yet, but here goes:What I avoid when working on open source projects is packaging.
I'll do design.
I'll write documentation.
I'll write the code.
I'll find and fix bugs.
I'll communicate with users.
I'll make it as easy as I know how to to get the program working on your system.But I avoid making a package for any one particular system.It would probably greatly improve how easy it is to get started with a particular program, but I still can't seem to get myself to do it.
Whenever I create a package, it always feels like I'm taking sides, like the platform I'm making a package for is somehow more favored by me than other platforms.
And the few times I have created packages, they have not been included in any of the canonical repositories.
So nowadays, I pretty much don't bother anymore.Even though I think that, detach [inglorion.net], in particular, would really make a great addition to every Unix-like operating system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474652</id>
	<title>Re:Trivia</title>
	<author>bipbop</author>
	<datestamp>1268561580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What exactly is it about a text mode email client that "makes you wonder"?  What do you wonder?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What exactly is it about a text mode email client that " makes you wonder " ?
What do you wonder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What exactly is it about a text mode email client that "makes you wonder"?
What do you wonder?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31488500</id>
	<title>Re:Adding comments</title>
	<author>einhverfr</author>
	<datestamp>1268650680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed. Furthermore, comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.</p></div></blockquote><p>I never said comments were not needed.  I said comments were not needed to say what the code was doing.  There is a tremendous difference.  Comments are not to explain code.  They are to explain thought processes to other programmers.</p><p>Basically there are two kinds of legitimate comments IMO.  The first is essentially inline documentation.  Using a POD example:</p><p>=item exec\_mapped\_procedure({procname =&gt; $procedure\_name, args =&gt; {$key1 =&gt; $value1,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...}, order\_by =&gt; $field\_name})</p><p>This method maps the calling argument to stored procedure argument names according to the following convention: all named arguments starting with obj\_ are mapped to object properties with the same name (minus the obj\_ prefix).  This is then passed to exec\_raw\_procedure which actually does the main work (see below).  The procname argument defines the name of the procedure called, order\_by sets the column ordering, and args provides named arguments mapped according to a similar convention for mapping object properties, except that arg\_ is the prefix.</p><p>The return type is a list of hashrefs of the returned database results.</p><p>=cut</p><p>Such is clearly legitimate.  It allows test cases to be written, gives folks an idea of when to call the function and what it is supposed to do etc.  As far as the code is concerned it is a comment but it is really part of inline documentation.</p><p>As for the other type of comments, I think that comments should be addressed to the programmer and say something useful which isn't necessarily immediately apparent from the code.  "# Creating the user" isn't helpful.  "# This is bad, raising error" can be pretty good.</p><p>I also think programmers should initial their comments.  If you see two comments:<br># This is bad, raising error --DS<br># Not necessarily.  Should we really raise an error here? --JR</p><p>That can be incredibly helpful.  Reading over it quickly you can note there is some disagreement over what this is supposed to do.</p><p>Even:</p><p># I wish I could find a better way to write this</p><p>or</p><p># Bah, this is hopelessly broken</p><p>tell the programmer something which is USEFUL in evaluating what the code does.  They are hence good comments.</p><p>In short I think comments should be addressed to other programmers, telling them something beyond what the code does.  "Here's how to use this API" is one such thing:  It provides a common point of expectation and makes it less likely that a change will break lots of things because folks are depending on corner-case behavior (or even bugs in the API).</p><p>As for your point about starting the function as a set of comments, that's fine.  The comments that are addressed to oneself rather than other programmers should be deleted after.  The comments actually telling something to other programmers should definitely be left there.</p><p>In short, I am firmly in the camp which says "comments should tell you why, not how" with the exception of inline documentation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed .
Furthermore , comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.I never said comments were not needed .
I said comments were not needed to say what the code was doing .
There is a tremendous difference .
Comments are not to explain code .
They are to explain thought processes to other programmers.Basically there are two kinds of legitimate comments IMO .
The first is essentially inline documentation .
Using a POD example : = item exec \ _mapped \ _procedure ( { procname = &gt; $ procedure \ _name , args = &gt; { $ key1 = &gt; $ value1 , ... } , order \ _by = &gt; $ field \ _name } ) This method maps the calling argument to stored procedure argument names according to the following convention : all named arguments starting with obj \ _ are mapped to object properties with the same name ( minus the obj \ _ prefix ) .
This is then passed to exec \ _raw \ _procedure which actually does the main work ( see below ) .
The procname argument defines the name of the procedure called , order \ _by sets the column ordering , and args provides named arguments mapped according to a similar convention for mapping object properties , except that arg \ _ is the prefix.The return type is a list of hashrefs of the returned database results. = cutSuch is clearly legitimate .
It allows test cases to be written , gives folks an idea of when to call the function and what it is supposed to do etc .
As far as the code is concerned it is a comment but it is really part of inline documentation.As for the other type of comments , I think that comments should be addressed to the programmer and say something useful which is n't necessarily immediately apparent from the code .
" # Creating the user " is n't helpful .
" # This is bad , raising error " can be pretty good.I also think programmers should initial their comments .
If you see two comments : # This is bad , raising error --DS # Not necessarily .
Should we really raise an error here ?
--JRThat can be incredibly helpful .
Reading over it quickly you can note there is some disagreement over what this is supposed to do.Even : # I wish I could find a better way to write thisor # Bah , this is hopelessly brokentell the programmer something which is USEFUL in evaluating what the code does .
They are hence good comments.In short I think comments should be addressed to other programmers , telling them something beyond what the code does .
" Here 's how to use this API " is one such thing : It provides a common point of expectation and makes it less likely that a change will break lots of things because folks are depending on corner-case behavior ( or even bugs in the API ) .As for your point about starting the function as a set of comments , that 's fine .
The comments that are addressed to oneself rather than other programmers should be deleted after .
The comments actually telling something to other programmers should definitely be left there.In short , I am firmly in the camp which says " comments should tell you why , not how " with the exception of inline documentation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The mark of a poor developer is one who says comments are not needed.
Furthermore, comments make for good content to improve searchability and often allows coders to think something through before they actually code it up.I never said comments were not needed.
I said comments were not needed to say what the code was doing.
There is a tremendous difference.
Comments are not to explain code.
They are to explain thought processes to other programmers.Basically there are two kinds of legitimate comments IMO.
The first is essentially inline documentation.
Using a POD example:=item exec\_mapped\_procedure({procname =&gt; $procedure\_name, args =&gt; {$key1 =&gt; $value1, ...}, order\_by =&gt; $field\_name})This method maps the calling argument to stored procedure argument names according to the following convention: all named arguments starting with obj\_ are mapped to object properties with the same name (minus the obj\_ prefix).
This is then passed to exec\_raw\_procedure which actually does the main work (see below).
The procname argument defines the name of the procedure called, order\_by sets the column ordering, and args provides named arguments mapped according to a similar convention for mapping object properties, except that arg\_ is the prefix.The return type is a list of hashrefs of the returned database results.=cutSuch is clearly legitimate.
It allows test cases to be written, gives folks an idea of when to call the function and what it is supposed to do etc.
As far as the code is concerned it is a comment but it is really part of inline documentation.As for the other type of comments, I think that comments should be addressed to the programmer and say something useful which isn't necessarily immediately apparent from the code.
"# Creating the user" isn't helpful.
"# This is bad, raising error" can be pretty good.I also think programmers should initial their comments.
If you see two comments:# This is bad, raising error --DS# Not necessarily.
Should we really raise an error here?
--JRThat can be incredibly helpful.
Reading over it quickly you can note there is some disagreement over what this is supposed to do.Even:# I wish I could find a better way to write thisor# Bah, this is hopelessly brokentell the programmer something which is USEFUL in evaluating what the code does.
They are hence good comments.In short I think comments should be addressed to other programmers, telling them something beyond what the code does.
"Here's how to use this API" is one such thing:  It provides a common point of expectation and makes it less likely that a change will break lots of things because folks are depending on corner-case behavior (or even bugs in the API).As for your point about starting the function as a set of comments, that's fine.
The comments that are addressed to oneself rather than other programmers should be deleted after.
The comments actually telling something to other programmers should definitely be left there.In short, I am firmly in the camp which says "comments should tell you why, not how" with the exception of inline documentation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31484028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31477464</id>
	<title>Re:The BSD license</title>
	<author>istartedi</author>
	<datestamp>1268581140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If somebody took your BSD code, added nothing to
it, and resold it, they didn't steal from you.
At least, that's what a BSD opponent would have to
agree, in order to avoid being a hypocrit.  In general,
Free Software advocates don't believe information
can be "stolen", so surely you can't be suggesting
that your BSD code was stolen in this case.</p><p>What if they took your BSD code, added "something" to
it, and resold it?  Are you suggesting that you have
a right to "something"?  On what basis do you lay claim
to "something" since it's their work, not yours?</p><p>Finally, even though I strongly prefer BSD to GPL, I've contributed
to GPL.  I don't believe in allowing ideology to become
a brick wall between me and other programmers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If somebody took your BSD code , added nothing to it , and resold it , they did n't steal from you .
At least , that 's what a BSD opponent would have to agree , in order to avoid being a hypocrit .
In general , Free Software advocates do n't believe information can be " stolen " , so surely you ca n't be suggesting that your BSD code was stolen in this case.What if they took your BSD code , added " something " to it , and resold it ?
Are you suggesting that you have a right to " something " ?
On what basis do you lay claim to " something " since it 's their work , not yours ? Finally , even though I strongly prefer BSD to GPL , I 've contributed to GPL .
I do n't believe in allowing ideology to become a brick wall between me and other programmers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If somebody took your BSD code, added nothing to
it, and resold it, they didn't steal from you.
At least, that's what a BSD opponent would have to
agree, in order to avoid being a hypocrit.
In general,
Free Software advocates don't believe information
can be "stolen", so surely you can't be suggesting
that your BSD code was stolen in this case.What if they took your BSD code, added "something" to
it, and resold it?
Are you suggesting that you have
a right to "something"?
On what basis do you lay claim
to "something" since it's their work, not yours?Finally, even though I strongly prefer BSD to GPL, I've contributed
to GPL.
I don't believe in allowing ideology to become
a brick wall between me and other programmers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474234</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>vadim\_t</author>
	<datestamp>1268558160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I steer clear of the BSD licenses when contributing.</p><p>For precisely the same reason you like it: there are no strings attached. Which means you can have my stuff without having to give anything back. I consider that such an arrangement effectively makes me an unpaid employee of your company, so I won't contribute anything significant under such terms.</p><p>I contribute under the GPL/AGPL because in such a case I do get something back: either somebody else's code, or money, if somebody wants a different license.</p><p>For the same reason, I preferentially use GPL licensed code. I might want to send a patch some day, but contributing something takes effort. I need to cleanup my code, figure out where to send it, perhaps discuss it on the mailing list with the project, and so on. That's quite a lot of boring work, so I expect to get something out of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I steer clear of the BSD licenses when contributing.For precisely the same reason you like it : there are no strings attached .
Which means you can have my stuff without having to give anything back .
I consider that such an arrangement effectively makes me an unpaid employee of your company , so I wo n't contribute anything significant under such terms.I contribute under the GPL/AGPL because in such a case I do get something back : either somebody else 's code , or money , if somebody wants a different license.For the same reason , I preferentially use GPL licensed code .
I might want to send a patch some day , but contributing something takes effort .
I need to cleanup my code , figure out where to send it , perhaps discuss it on the mailing list with the project , and so on .
That 's quite a lot of boring work , so I expect to get something out of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I steer clear of the BSD licenses when contributing.For precisely the same reason you like it: there are no strings attached.
Which means you can have my stuff without having to give anything back.
I consider that such an arrangement effectively makes me an unpaid employee of your company, so I won't contribute anything significant under such terms.I contribute under the GPL/AGPL because in such a case I do get something back: either somebody else's code, or money, if somebody wants a different license.For the same reason, I preferentially use GPL licensed code.
I might want to send a patch some day, but contributing something takes effort.
I need to cleanup my code, figure out where to send it, perhaps discuss it on the mailing list with the project, and so on.
That's quite a lot of boring work, so I expect to get something out of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474176</id>
	<title>Re:One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>MessedRocker</author>
	<datestamp>1268557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find that the effectiveness of a software license is directly proportional to the amount of money the coder has to spend on legal fees. Maybe I don't have enough experience here, but free-software coders don't strike me as particularly wealthy.</p><p>(This statement is not an endorsement of software license violation, which is considered copyright infringement and not just contract violation.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find that the effectiveness of a software license is directly proportional to the amount of money the coder has to spend on legal fees .
Maybe I do n't have enough experience here , but free-software coders do n't strike me as particularly wealthy .
( This statement is not an endorsement of software license violation , which is considered copyright infringement and not just contract violation .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find that the effectiveness of a software license is directly proportional to the amount of money the coder has to spend on legal fees.
Maybe I don't have enough experience here, but free-software coders don't strike me as particularly wealthy.
(This statement is not an endorsement of software license violation, which is considered copyright infringement and not just contract violation.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474942</id>
	<title>Documentation and comments.</title>
	<author>jacksonj04</author>
	<datestamp>1268563260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish I had a dollar for every time an OSS project spat out something like "ERROR: 0947445" with no mention anywhere of what aforementioned error code meant or how to fix it, then upon further dredging through a hundred uncommented lines of code to find out what was going on it turns out that the root cause was that I hadn't installed some-package-to-do-something-2.4-beta (which should have been a prerequisite, but isn't).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish I had a dollar for every time an OSS project spat out something like " ERROR : 0947445 " with no mention anywhere of what aforementioned error code meant or how to fix it , then upon further dredging through a hundred uncommented lines of code to find out what was going on it turns out that the root cause was that I had n't installed some-package-to-do-something-2.4-beta ( which should have been a prerequisite , but is n't ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish I had a dollar for every time an OSS project spat out something like "ERROR: 0947445" with no mention anywhere of what aforementioned error code meant or how to fix it, then upon further dredging through a hundred uncommented lines of code to find out what was going on it turns out that the root cause was that I hadn't installed some-package-to-do-something-2.4-beta (which should have been a prerequisite, but isn't).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474300</id>
	<title>Thanks for Slashdotting me</title>
	<author>paulproteus</author>
	<datestamp>1268558640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Working on fixing the site...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Working on fixing the site.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Working on fixing the site...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474800</id>
	<title>Re:irc.freenode.net</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1268562540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>people asking questions already answered via a web search.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Oh, it's much worse than that -- this one's actually dim enough to be using Palin-speak!</p><blockquote><div><p>free software-y and open source-y things</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>people asking questions already answered via a web search .
Oh , it 's much worse than that -- this one 's actually dim enough to be using Palin-speak ! free software-y and open source-y things</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people asking questions already answered via a web search.
Oh, it's much worse than that -- this one's actually dim enough to be using Palin-speak!free software-y and open source-y things
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31478534</id>
	<title>Re:Unreproducible bugs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268593260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about when you get idiots who say my web app is "caught in a loop" when what they really mean is they can't stop from clicking on a link in the app and keep on re-clicking on it before the page is even loaded.  Yes I'm talking about you Doug!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about when you get idiots who say my web app is " caught in a loop " when what they really mean is they ca n't stop from clicking on a link in the app and keep on re-clicking on it before the page is even loaded .
Yes I 'm talking about you Doug !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about when you get idiots who say my web app is "caught in a loop" when what they really mean is they can't stop from clicking on a link in the app and keep on re-clicking on it before the page is even loaded.
Yes I'm talking about you Doug!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31486082</id>
	<title>As a user</title>
	<author>FiloEleven</author>
	<datestamp>1268684640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The thing that keeps me away from using many open source projects is the installation process.  This was true when I used Windows and remains true since I switched to OS X.  Far too many cool-sounding projects require me to go to 3 or 4 different sites, find the correct libraries for my platform, install them, then download the project I'm actually interested in and hope it finds them or even go through the hassle of compiling it myself.</p><p>For people heavily into system management this isn't a big deal, but my focus is on actually <em>using</em> the product, and I want the same instant gratification I get when I buy commercial software--double-click and go.  If an installer for my platform isn't available it's no dealbreaker, but <em>please</em> make sure that your documentation on the installation process is good.  More than once I have gotten 3/4 of the way through the process I mentioned above only to have something fail due to a missing library or whatever after carefully following the instructions outlined by the project's site.  Other times, the "instructions" consist of "you will need to get X, Y, and Z before compiling this.  Here's the source," with nothing else to tell you what goes where or how to build it.</p><p>End users should not be doing the packaging work of the project developers for them.  That doesn't fly in a commercial environment, which is what free software is competing against.  If you want more users, make sure they can easily get your software running on their system.</p><p>I realize this submission asked about contributors, but the overwhelming lack of focus given to the installation process makes me think that it's an aspect being avoided, or at least poorly handled, by the majority of developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing that keeps me away from using many open source projects is the installation process .
This was true when I used Windows and remains true since I switched to OS X. Far too many cool-sounding projects require me to go to 3 or 4 different sites , find the correct libraries for my platform , install them , then download the project I 'm actually interested in and hope it finds them or even go through the hassle of compiling it myself.For people heavily into system management this is n't a big deal , but my focus is on actually using the product , and I want the same instant gratification I get when I buy commercial software--double-click and go .
If an installer for my platform is n't available it 's no dealbreaker , but please make sure that your documentation on the installation process is good .
More than once I have gotten 3/4 of the way through the process I mentioned above only to have something fail due to a missing library or whatever after carefully following the instructions outlined by the project 's site .
Other times , the " instructions " consist of " you will need to get X , Y , and Z before compiling this .
Here 's the source , " with nothing else to tell you what goes where or how to build it.End users should not be doing the packaging work of the project developers for them .
That does n't fly in a commercial environment , which is what free software is competing against .
If you want more users , make sure they can easily get your software running on their system.I realize this submission asked about contributors , but the overwhelming lack of focus given to the installation process makes me think that it 's an aspect being avoided , or at least poorly handled , by the majority of developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing that keeps me away from using many open source projects is the installation process.
This was true when I used Windows and remains true since I switched to OS X.  Far too many cool-sounding projects require me to go to 3 or 4 different sites, find the correct libraries for my platform, install them, then download the project I'm actually interested in and hope it finds them or even go through the hassle of compiling it myself.For people heavily into system management this isn't a big deal, but my focus is on actually using the product, and I want the same instant gratification I get when I buy commercial software--double-click and go.
If an installer for my platform isn't available it's no dealbreaker, but please make sure that your documentation on the installation process is good.
More than once I have gotten 3/4 of the way through the process I mentioned above only to have something fail due to a missing library or whatever after carefully following the instructions outlined by the project's site.
Other times, the "instructions" consist of "you will need to get X, Y, and Z before compiling this.
Here's the source," with nothing else to tell you what goes where or how to build it.End users should not be doing the packaging work of the project developers for them.
That doesn't fly in a commercial environment, which is what free software is competing against.
If you want more users, make sure they can easily get your software running on their system.I realize this submission asked about contributors, but the overwhelming lack of focus given to the installation process makes me think that it's an aspect being avoided, or at least poorly handled, by the majority of developers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474946</id>
	<title>Re:Unreproducible bugs</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1268563320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just want to comment on that even if the bug isn't reproducible, it can be very real and very annoying. For example, an application I worked with had random cases of "things stop working". Restart services and the problem is gone - for a while. Increase memory and it's gone for a while longer. Turns out that finally, when they dug it out it was a issue with the caching system that'd not evict and insert properly under some race condition.</p><p>Another was a strange case of things going read only, but whenever an administrator tried to look at the problem it was gone. Well, finally we found out - through luck more than anything, that somebody was holding the wrong lock and it came from a completely different module. The only reason we caught it was because this particular lock was accidentally held for weeks rather than normally minutes so we could work it out with support.</p><p>P.S. I've found the usual MO is to ask for the impossible, like please provide an SQL trace of the problem - that happens randomly and you'll kill everything by trying to log everyone - then when you can't provide one close it because they have insufficient information from the customer. Still I can sort of understand - I have had mystery bugs that have come, gone and never come back. Don't worry too much unless the customer keeps reporting new incidents. If so, help me help you - if you got decent logging capability built in you should tell me what to turn on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just want to comment on that even if the bug is n't reproducible , it can be very real and very annoying .
For example , an application I worked with had random cases of " things stop working " .
Restart services and the problem is gone - for a while .
Increase memory and it 's gone for a while longer .
Turns out that finally , when they dug it out it was a issue with the caching system that 'd not evict and insert properly under some race condition.Another was a strange case of things going read only , but whenever an administrator tried to look at the problem it was gone .
Well , finally we found out - through luck more than anything , that somebody was holding the wrong lock and it came from a completely different module .
The only reason we caught it was because this particular lock was accidentally held for weeks rather than normally minutes so we could work it out with support.P.S .
I 've found the usual MO is to ask for the impossible , like please provide an SQL trace of the problem - that happens randomly and you 'll kill everything by trying to log everyone - then when you ca n't provide one close it because they have insufficient information from the customer .
Still I can sort of understand - I have had mystery bugs that have come , gone and never come back .
Do n't worry too much unless the customer keeps reporting new incidents .
If so , help me help you - if you got decent logging capability built in you should tell me what to turn on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just want to comment on that even if the bug isn't reproducible, it can be very real and very annoying.
For example, an application I worked with had random cases of "things stop working".
Restart services and the problem is gone - for a while.
Increase memory and it's gone for a while longer.
Turns out that finally, when they dug it out it was a issue with the caching system that'd not evict and insert properly under some race condition.Another was a strange case of things going read only, but whenever an administrator tried to look at the problem it was gone.
Well, finally we found out - through luck more than anything, that somebody was holding the wrong lock and it came from a completely different module.
The only reason we caught it was because this particular lock was accidentally held for weeks rather than normally minutes so we could work it out with support.P.S.
I've found the usual MO is to ask for the impossible, like please provide an SQL trace of the problem - that happens randomly and you'll kill everything by trying to log everyone - then when you can't provide one close it because they have insufficient information from the customer.
Still I can sort of understand - I have had mystery bugs that have come, gone and never come back.
Don't worry too much unless the customer keeps reporting new incidents.
If so, help me help you - if you got decent logging capability built in you should tell me what to turn on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31479416</id>
	<title>My two bits</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268648040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't like developers who use the "it's open source so it's better!" argument for everything. I've been a Linux-only person for quite some time, but I honestly think that if I hear the term "open source" used a weapon one more time, I'm going to puke.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't like developers who use the " it 's open source so it 's better !
" argument for everything .
I 've been a Linux-only person for quite some time , but I honestly think that if I hear the term " open source " used a weapon one more time , I 'm going to puke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't like developers who use the "it's open source so it's better!
" argument for everything.
I've been a Linux-only person for quite some time, but I honestly think that if I hear the term "open source" used a weapon one more time, I'm going to puke.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475334</id>
	<title>Re:Unreproducible bugs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268565600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>What are the parts that, in your projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?</p></div><p>How about unreproducible bugs?</p><p>I hate the whole situation.</p><p>The bug reports; "Uh, I got an error or something when I tried to run it" "OK, what was the error" "I don't know" "So how do you know theres a problem?"</p><p>Failing to reproduce the error.  This ties in with the "prove a negative" problem.  When to give up?  Just document what I'm doing and hope for the best, I guess.</p><p>Problems that are probably specification failures but you can't prove it.  Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something, but no one is entirely certain what.</p><p>Now you know how they feel at Toyota<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What are the parts that , in your projects , you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you ? How about unreproducible bugs ? I hate the whole situation.The bug reports ; " Uh , I got an error or something when I tried to run it " " OK , what was the error " " I do n't know " " So how do you know theres a problem ?
" Failing to reproduce the error .
This ties in with the " prove a negative " problem .
When to give up ?
Just document what I 'm doing and hope for the best , I guess.Problems that are probably specification failures but you ca n't prove it .
Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something , but no one is entirely certain what.Now you know how they feel at Toyota : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are the parts that, in your projects, you would be relieved if someone else looked at for you?How about unreproducible bugs?I hate the whole situation.The bug reports; "Uh, I got an error or something when I tried to run it" "OK, what was the error" "I don't know" "So how do you know theres a problem?
"Failing to reproduce the error.
This ties in with the "prove a negative" problem.
When to give up?
Just document what I'm doing and hope for the best, I guess.Problems that are probably specification failures but you can't prove it.
Closely tied to mystery black boxes that do something, but no one is entirely certain what.Now you know how they feel at Toyota :)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31477160</id>
	<title>Re:I try to avoid</title>
	<author>u17</author>
	<datestamp>1268578740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know, these quadratic means are truly awful to work with!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know , these quadratic means are truly awful to work with !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know, these quadratic means are truly awful to work with!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31475960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_1757213.31474126</id>
	<title>One thing I don't do is troublesome licenses</title>
	<author>carlhaagen</author>
	<datestamp>1268557260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In developing (I work with a company doing \_mostly\_ web-based applications; perl, php, asp, all that gibberish) I steer clear of projects and software with a troublesome license. I am very pro-open source, I am very pro-freedom, and I am very pro-FREE FOR NON-COMMERCIAL USE, so don't get the wrong idea, but I mainly steer clear of anything GPL when it comes to the point of including GPLd software in the projects I work with. Simply: it spells nothing but trouble to me. Please do discuss, debate, don't just f***ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it "troll".</htmltext>
<tokenext>In developing ( I work with a company doing \ _mostly \ _ web-based applications ; perl , php , asp , all that gibberish ) I steer clear of projects and software with a troublesome license .
I am very pro-open source , I am very pro-freedom , and I am very pro-FREE FOR NON-COMMERCIAL USE , so do n't get the wrong idea , but I mainly steer clear of anything GPL when it comes to the point of including GPLd software in the projects I work with .
Simply : it spells nothing but trouble to me .
Please do discuss , debate , do n't just f * * * ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it " troll " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In developing (I work with a company doing \_mostly\_ web-based applications; perl, php, asp, all that gibberish) I steer clear of projects and software with a troublesome license.
I am very pro-open source, I am very pro-freedom, and I am very pro-FREE FOR NON-COMMERCIAL USE, so don't get the wrong idea, but I mainly steer clear of anything GPL when it comes to the point of including GPLd software in the projects I work with.
Simply: it spells nothing but trouble to me.
Please do discuss, debate, don't just f***ing go all nazi gpl/linux/grandma on this by modding it "troll".</sentencetext>
</comment>
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