<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_12_1520226</id>
	<title>IBM Stops Disclosing US Headcount Data</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1268413080000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"ComputerWorld reports that <a href="http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9169678/IBM\_stops\_disclosing\_U.S.\_headcount\_data">IBM has stopped providing breakouts on US employees</a>, closing a door to data that provided insights into the bellwether company's employment shift. In its <a href="http://www.ibm.com/annualreport/2009/?sa\_campaign=message/leaf1/corp/news/annualreport">latest Annual Report</a>, Big Blue only provides its global headcount, and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past. The Rochester Institute of Technology's Ron Hira called the US workforce data critical for policymakers trying to understand the dynamics of offshoring. 'By hiding its offshoring, IBM is doing a disservice to America &mdash; through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers,' Hira said. Ironically, <a href="http://www.ibm.com/annualreport/2009/letter.shtml">CEO Sam Palmisano's Letter to Shareholders</a>, which accompanied the Annual Report, touts how IBM's Analytics and 'Smarter Planet' efforts are empowering US government decision-makers. Nondisclosure <a href="http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/microsoft-layoffs-add-more-fuel-h-1b-fire-284">domestically</a> and <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/08/10/03/149219/Facebook-Finds-Grass-Greener-In-Ireland">abroad</a> seems to be the new rule of thumb for Big Tech, sparking <a href="http://www.blackvoicenews.com/commentary/more-commentary/44104-jim-crow-in-silicon-valley-is-exposed.html">calls for government intervention</a>."</i> IBM laid off about 10,000 US workers last year, and 2,900 so far this year, according to the Alliance@IBM, a labor union.</htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " ComputerWorld reports that IBM has stopped providing breakouts on US employees , closing a door to data that provided insights into the bellwether company 's employment shift .
In its latest Annual Report , Big Blue only provides its global headcount , and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past .
The Rochester Institute of Technology 's Ron Hira called the US workforce data critical for policymakers trying to understand the dynamics of offshoring .
'By hiding its offshoring , IBM is doing a disservice to America    through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers, ' Hira said .
Ironically , CEO Sam Palmisano 's Letter to Shareholders , which accompanied the Annual Report , touts how IBM 's Analytics and 'Smarter Planet ' efforts are empowering US government decision-makers .
Nondisclosure domestically and abroad seems to be the new rule of thumb for Big Tech , sparking calls for government intervention .
" IBM laid off about 10,000 US workers last year , and 2,900 so far this year , according to the Alliance @ IBM , a labor union .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "ComputerWorld reports that IBM has stopped providing breakouts on US employees, closing a door to data that provided insights into the bellwether company's employment shift.
In its latest Annual Report, Big Blue only provides its global headcount, and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past.
The Rochester Institute of Technology's Ron Hira called the US workforce data critical for policymakers trying to understand the dynamics of offshoring.
'By hiding its offshoring, IBM is doing a disservice to America — through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers,' Hira said.
Ironically, CEO Sam Palmisano's Letter to Shareholders, which accompanied the Annual Report, touts how IBM's Analytics and 'Smarter Planet' efforts are empowering US government decision-makers.
Nondisclosure domestically and abroad seems to be the new rule of thumb for Big Tech, sparking calls for government intervention.
" IBM laid off about 10,000 US workers last year, and 2,900 so far this year, according to the Alliance@IBM, a labor union.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31460944</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>Profane MuthaFucka</author>
	<datestamp>1268410560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>..then why are you hiding it?</i></p><p>Because the sight of my tiny cock being stroked in public makes women vomit.</p><p>It's not illegal, and I've really got nothing to hide. Every person masturbates, correct?</p><p>But you will agree that it's obvious why I should be hiding it?</p><p>And there you have the disproof of your statement. It is indeed proper to hide things even if they're perfectly legal and biologically natural.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..then why are you hiding it ? Because the sight of my tiny cock being stroked in public makes women vomit.It 's not illegal , and I 've really got nothing to hide .
Every person masturbates , correct ? But you will agree that it 's obvious why I should be hiding it ? And there you have the disproof of your statement .
It is indeed proper to hide things even if they 're perfectly legal and biologically natural .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..then why are you hiding it?Because the sight of my tiny cock being stroked in public makes women vomit.It's not illegal, and I've really got nothing to hide.
Every person masturbates, correct?But you will agree that it's obvious why I should be hiding it?And there you have the disproof of your statement.
It is indeed proper to hide things even if they're perfectly legal and biologically natural.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31461816</id>
	<title>Hiding data from the government</title>
	<author>ChrisMaple</author>
	<datestamp>1268419080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The best thing any person or corporation can do is hide information from the government. Intrusive government requires information to operate, and every time you make that information more difficult or impossible to obtain, you add just a little more distance between yourself and tyranny.</p><p>C'mon people, wake up. If your employer didn't report what it paid you, how could an income tax be imposed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The best thing any person or corporation can do is hide information from the government .
Intrusive government requires information to operate , and every time you make that information more difficult or impossible to obtain , you add just a little more distance between yourself and tyranny.C'mon people , wake up .
If your employer did n't report what it paid you , how could an income tax be imposed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best thing any person or corporation can do is hide information from the government.
Intrusive government requires information to operate, and every time you make that information more difficult or impossible to obtain, you add just a little more distance between yourself and tyranny.C'mon people, wake up.
If your employer didn't report what it paid you, how could an income tax be imposed?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455322</id>
	<title>Re:Misleading signals?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268426580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have no idea how right you are. I'm a Kiwi living in Brasil and working for IBM. I've just been told, literally an hour ago that my position will most likely be offshored to the Philippines. Apparently they're expecting labour rates in Brasil to go up. It really is a pity how capital knows no borders but people unfortunately do. Of course I have absolutely no sympathy for the Brazilian government since they haven't managed to approve my permanent visa after 18 months of processing.</p><p>In the end I'm going to vote with my feet. Bad luck for Brasil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have no idea how right you are .
I 'm a Kiwi living in Brasil and working for IBM .
I 've just been told , literally an hour ago that my position will most likely be offshored to the Philippines .
Apparently they 're expecting labour rates in Brasil to go up .
It really is a pity how capital knows no borders but people unfortunately do .
Of course I have absolutely no sympathy for the Brazilian government since they have n't managed to approve my permanent visa after 18 months of processing.In the end I 'm going to vote with my feet .
Bad luck for Brasil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have no idea how right you are.
I'm a Kiwi living in Brasil and working for IBM.
I've just been told, literally an hour ago that my position will most likely be offshored to the Philippines.
Apparently they're expecting labour rates in Brasil to go up.
It really is a pity how capital knows no borders but people unfortunately do.
Of course I have absolutely no sympathy for the Brazilian government since they haven't managed to approve my permanent visa after 18 months of processing.In the end I'm going to vote with my feet.
Bad luck for Brasil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31461634</id>
	<title>Re:Thank you Slashdot</title>
	<author>soconn</author>
	<datestamp>1268417100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm another ex-IBMer (left of my own accord and glad to be out), a friend of mine at the lab was asked to lower an employees PBC rating as the yearly cull needed another target in their team, he refused as the employee was an ok performer... they insisted he change the rating to a 3 as they had already told the employee that he was to be put on 'a plan' (IBM code for go f\%ck yourself). He gained my respect and admiration that day when he said that he wouldn't do it and that the employee would likely have good grounds to start legal proceedings as this rating was out of the blue and unjustified and he was ready to quit over it. Suddenly the employee was welcomed back and all was forgiven. All three of us have left the company now (of our own accord) and are doing fine but my abiding memory of IBM is of a place with such low morals as to be almost non existent, HR are just Sam's hitmen and the execs have created a culture of fear and resentment... then they wonder why they struggle to innovate as a company.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm another ex-IBMer ( left of my own accord and glad to be out ) , a friend of mine at the lab was asked to lower an employees PBC rating as the yearly cull needed another target in their team , he refused as the employee was an ok performer... they insisted he change the rating to a 3 as they had already told the employee that he was to be put on 'a plan ' ( IBM code for go f \ % ck yourself ) .
He gained my respect and admiration that day when he said that he would n't do it and that the employee would likely have good grounds to start legal proceedings as this rating was out of the blue and unjustified and he was ready to quit over it .
Suddenly the employee was welcomed back and all was forgiven .
All three of us have left the company now ( of our own accord ) and are doing fine but my abiding memory of IBM is of a place with such low morals as to be almost non existent , HR are just Sam 's hitmen and the execs have created a culture of fear and resentment... then they wonder why they struggle to innovate as a company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm another ex-IBMer (left of my own accord and glad to be out), a friend of mine at the lab was asked to lower an employees PBC rating as the yearly cull needed another target in their team, he refused as the employee was an ok performer... they insisted he change the rating to a 3 as they had already told the employee that he was to be put on 'a plan' (IBM code for go f\%ck yourself).
He gained my respect and admiration that day when he said that he wouldn't do it and that the employee would likely have good grounds to start legal proceedings as this rating was out of the blue and unjustified and he was ready to quit over it.
Suddenly the employee was welcomed back and all was forgiven.
All three of us have left the company now (of our own accord) and are doing fine but my abiding memory of IBM is of a place with such low morals as to be almost non existent, HR are just Sam's hitmen and the execs have created a culture of fear and resentment... then they wonder why they struggle to innovate as a company.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453210</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1268417220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not saying you're wrong but when it comes to US Citizens losing their jobs, yes, the government has a problem with that.</p><p>I won't care to elaborate on why that is, but the fact that you seem surprised is a little confusing.  It shouldn't be surprising that a government has more of an interest in the health of the job market for its citizens over the job[less] rate of another countries population.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not saying you 're wrong but when it comes to US Citizens losing their jobs , yes , the government has a problem with that.I wo n't care to elaborate on why that is , but the fact that you seem surprised is a little confusing .
It should n't be surprising that a government has more of an interest in the health of the job market for its citizens over the job [ less ] rate of another countries population .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not saying you're wrong but when it comes to US Citizens losing their jobs, yes, the government has a problem with that.I won't care to elaborate on why that is, but the fact that you seem surprised is a little confusing.
It shouldn't be surprising that a government has more of an interest in the health of the job market for its citizens over the job[less] rate of another countries population.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454952</id>
	<title>Re:ibm was born in new york state</title>
	<author>CapsLockKey</author>
	<datestamp>1268425020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thank you sir for your well thought out and intriguing comments!<br> <br>
I'm so impressed.. I'd like to introduce you to my one of my twin daughters!<br> <br>

ShiftKey, honey? Please meet circletimessquare.  Bright fella.. but he needs your company..</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you sir for your well thought out and intriguing comments !
I 'm so impressed.. I 'd like to introduce you to my one of my twin daughters !
ShiftKey , honey ?
Please meet circletimessquare .
Bright fella.. but he needs your company. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you sir for your well thought out and intriguing comments!
I'm so impressed.. I'd like to introduce you to my one of my twin daughters!
ShiftKey, honey?
Please meet circletimessquare.
Bright fella.. but he needs your company..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</id>
	<title>Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're projected to have more Indian employees than American in the next year or two. We already have over 100k in India, and we're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.</p><p>Meanwhile, internal outsourcing has been an absolute mess. Our Indian-based helpdesks are reviled, both inside IBM and by our customers who use them. Indian technical resources are likewise extremely difficult to work with, and it has nothing to do with language or timezones - they refuse to speak up (from what we're told, "it's cultural", meaning don't make an issue of it or you'll get sent to sensitivity training). A solution can be completely wrong - as in, the contract says we were supposed to start work two months in the past or numbers literally don't add up, yet they won't question blatant errors, and won't respond if you question them. Apparently questioning someone else is deeply frowned upon, and makes them next to useless as anything but strict, brainless order takers. They have no initiative whatsoever, and seemingly no capability of independent creative thought. Maybe it's "cultural", maybe it's poor training - I don't know. I do know it's not working, but all executive management sees is that they cost a fraction to hire as western workers. You get what you pay for, and all that...</p><p>None of this applies to the many Indians I work with who are based in other geographies. But for whatever reason, Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're projected to have more Indian employees than American in the next year or two .
We already have over 100k in India , and we 're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.Meanwhile , internal outsourcing has been an absolute mess .
Our Indian-based helpdesks are reviled , both inside IBM and by our customers who use them .
Indian technical resources are likewise extremely difficult to work with , and it has nothing to do with language or timezones - they refuse to speak up ( from what we 're told , " it 's cultural " , meaning do n't make an issue of it or you 'll get sent to sensitivity training ) .
A solution can be completely wrong - as in , the contract says we were supposed to start work two months in the past or numbers literally do n't add up , yet they wo n't question blatant errors , and wo n't respond if you question them .
Apparently questioning someone else is deeply frowned upon , and makes them next to useless as anything but strict , brainless order takers .
They have no initiative whatsoever , and seemingly no capability of independent creative thought .
Maybe it 's " cultural " , maybe it 's poor training - I do n't know .
I do know it 's not working , but all executive management sees is that they cost a fraction to hire as western workers .
You get what you pay for , and all that...None of this applies to the many Indians I work with who are based in other geographies .
But for whatever reason , Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're projected to have more Indian employees than American in the next year or two.
We already have over 100k in India, and we're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.Meanwhile, internal outsourcing has been an absolute mess.
Our Indian-based helpdesks are reviled, both inside IBM and by our customers who use them.
Indian technical resources are likewise extremely difficult to work with, and it has nothing to do with language or timezones - they refuse to speak up (from what we're told, "it's cultural", meaning don't make an issue of it or you'll get sent to sensitivity training).
A solution can be completely wrong - as in, the contract says we were supposed to start work two months in the past or numbers literally don't add up, yet they won't question blatant errors, and won't respond if you question them.
Apparently questioning someone else is deeply frowned upon, and makes them next to useless as anything but strict, brainless order takers.
They have no initiative whatsoever, and seemingly no capability of independent creative thought.
Maybe it's "cultural", maybe it's poor training - I don't know.
I do know it's not working, but all executive management sees is that they cost a fraction to hire as western workers.
You get what you pay for, and all that...None of this applies to the many Indians I work with who are based in other geographies.
But for whatever reason, Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31585172</id>
	<title>IBM is leaving the building, the talent remains</title>
	<author>XiBMR</author>
	<datestamp>1269365100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The talented folks jettisoned by IBM are still here, still available, still paying taxes, still buying your products. Perhaps the right response is to engage them, not IBM. <a href="http://xibmr.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheres-my-consultant.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://xibmr.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheres-my-consultant.html</a> [blogspot.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The talented folks jettisoned by IBM are still here , still available , still paying taxes , still buying your products .
Perhaps the right response is to engage them , not IBM .
http : //xibmr.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheres-my-consultant.html [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The talented folks jettisoned by IBM are still here, still available, still paying taxes, still buying your products.
Perhaps the right response is to engage them, not IBM.
http://xibmr.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheres-my-consultant.html [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453598</id>
	<title>Re:Regulate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268418840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire. They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.</p></div><p>Maybe not. But companies which receive tax breaks for "creating jobs" should be required to publish employment stats.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire .
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.Maybe not .
But companies which receive tax breaks for " creating jobs " should be required to publish employment stats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.Maybe not.
But companies which receive tax breaks for "creating jobs" should be required to publish employment stats.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453820</id>
	<title>How Odd</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1268419800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Germany is pretty much one large union. And you would claim that Germany is made up of Lazy, corrupt ppl and it is an economic failure? Yeah. Right. Well, I certain understand why you went AC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany is pretty much one large union .
And you would claim that Germany is made up of Lazy , corrupt ppl and it is an economic failure ?
Yeah. Right .
Well , I certain understand why you went AC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany is pretty much one large union.
And you would claim that Germany is made up of Lazy, corrupt ppl and it is an economic failure?
Yeah. Right.
Well, I certain understand why you went AC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453538</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Amouth</author>
	<datestamp>1268418540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unions had their place in time and their need (the old coal mines)  but now days they have gotten way over done - i have seen more people hurt in modern times by unions than not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions had their place in time and their need ( the old coal mines ) but now days they have gotten way over done - i have seen more people hurt in modern times by unions than not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions had their place in time and their need (the old coal mines)  but now days they have gotten way over done - i have seen more people hurt in modern times by unions than not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31459122</id>
	<title>Re:No one cares until it's too late</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268399460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I started a business 4 years ago and now I make $500K annually. I would never have been able to or allowed to do that if I was part of a union. The downside to the union is that they prevent anyone from rising above the crowd. They stifle individualism and individualism has served me well. I could not function under a union system. Call it FOX News or however you want to trivialize the opinion.</p><p>"You're not a superstar, you're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire, and you're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate."</p><p>And you have just expressed the union mindset that is so foreign to me, I can't even wrap my mind around it. I won't be a billionaire, that's a strawman, but to say that someone won't start a business? I think that you are projecting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I started a business 4 years ago and now I make $ 500K annually .
I would never have been able to or allowed to do that if I was part of a union .
The downside to the union is that they prevent anyone from rising above the crowd .
They stifle individualism and individualism has served me well .
I could not function under a union system .
Call it FOX News or however you want to trivialize the opinion .
" You 're not a superstar , you 're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire , and you 're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate .
" And you have just expressed the union mindset that is so foreign to me , I ca n't even wrap my mind around it .
I wo n't be a billionaire , that 's a strawman , but to say that someone wo n't start a business ?
I think that you are projecting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started a business 4 years ago and now I make $500K annually.
I would never have been able to or allowed to do that if I was part of a union.
The downside to the union is that they prevent anyone from rising above the crowd.
They stifle individualism and individualism has served me well.
I could not function under a union system.
Call it FOX News or however you want to trivialize the opinion.
"You're not a superstar, you're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire, and you're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate.
"And you have just expressed the union mindset that is so foreign to me, I can't even wrap my mind around it.
I won't be a billionaire, that's a strawman, but to say that someone won't start a business?
I think that you are projecting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454366</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453742</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>jd2112</author>
	<datestamp>1268419440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?</p></div><p>When the unemployed band together and buy a few senators I'm sure we will see some action on this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens ? When the unemployed band together and buy a few senators I 'm sure we will see some action on this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?When the unemployed band together and buy a few senators I'm sure we will see some action on this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453512</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268418360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's get real. The poorest people in India aren't going to get those jobs.</p><p>You're right about the US hypocrisy over free trade, but I think if you examine your conscience you'll conclude that India isn't free from hypocrisy either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's get real .
The poorest people in India are n't going to get those jobs.You 're right about the US hypocrisy over free trade , but I think if you examine your conscience you 'll conclude that India is n't free from hypocrisy either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's get real.
The poorest people in India aren't going to get those jobs.You're right about the US hypocrisy over free trade, but I think if you examine your conscience you'll conclude that India isn't free from hypocrisy either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454062</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Duhavid</author>
	<datestamp>1268420880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that you are missing that that 50k/year ( times the number of employees being "released" ) is no longer being spend on economic activity here.  So, some other companies that used to get a fraction of that ( rent, bills, spending ) don't.  So, they lay off, and the circle tightens until the US is a junkyard.</p><p>Also, the reason there is a pay differential is because there is a cost differential to the workers.  The items these companies are selling, they are selling to Americans at higher prices.  Rent/mortgage costs are higher.  Food costs more.  And the worker is in no way completely to blame for this, the companies selling have much more control of parts of this at least.</p><p>I don't expect charity.  But perhaps a reduction in greedy short term thinking stupidity would be in order.</p><p>So, why should they pay 50k/year?  Because they are selling their goods and services here at first world prices.  That is why.  If they don't, they will not be able to sell here at those prices in the longer term because the support for that ( higher wages ) will not be there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that you are missing that that 50k/year ( times the number of employees being " released " ) is no longer being spend on economic activity here .
So , some other companies that used to get a fraction of that ( rent , bills , spending ) do n't .
So , they lay off , and the circle tightens until the US is a junkyard.Also , the reason there is a pay differential is because there is a cost differential to the workers .
The items these companies are selling , they are selling to Americans at higher prices .
Rent/mortgage costs are higher .
Food costs more .
And the worker is in no way completely to blame for this , the companies selling have much more control of parts of this at least.I do n't expect charity .
But perhaps a reduction in greedy short term thinking stupidity would be in order.So , why should they pay 50k/year ?
Because they are selling their goods and services here at first world prices .
That is why .
If they do n't , they will not be able to sell here at those prices in the longer term because the support for that ( higher wages ) will not be there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that you are missing that that 50k/year ( times the number of employees being "released" ) is no longer being spend on economic activity here.
So, some other companies that used to get a fraction of that ( rent, bills, spending ) don't.
So, they lay off, and the circle tightens until the US is a junkyard.Also, the reason there is a pay differential is because there is a cost differential to the workers.
The items these companies are selling, they are selling to Americans at higher prices.
Rent/mortgage costs are higher.
Food costs more.
And the worker is in no way completely to blame for this, the companies selling have much more control of parts of this at least.I don't expect charity.
But perhaps a reduction in greedy short term thinking stupidity would be in order.So, why should they pay 50k/year?
Because they are selling their goods and services here at first world prices.
That is why.
If they don't, they will not be able to sell here at those prices in the longer term because the support for that ( higher wages ) will not be there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</id>
	<title>Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your loss is OUR gain.  10,000 less American workers will probably translate into 100,000 Indian workers who will now be lifted out of poverty.  Why is it that Americans (especially on Slashdot) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism, but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your loss is OUR gain .
10,000 less American workers will probably translate into 100,000 Indian workers who will now be lifted out of poverty .
Why is it that Americans ( especially on Slashdot ) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism , but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your loss is OUR gain.
10,000 less American workers will probably translate into 100,000 Indian workers who will now be lifted out of poverty.
Why is it that Americans (especially on Slashdot) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism, but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453172</id>
	<title>land of the free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>except when it comes to information</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>except when it comes to information</tokentext>
<sentencetext>except when it comes to information</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455038</id>
	<title>Re:Unions</title>
	<author>Marxist Hacker 42</author>
	<datestamp>1268425380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll tell you what- we can ban unions if we can also ban certain businesses from our communities.  To bring this back on topic, I say the proper response is a 1000\% tariff on IBM mainframes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll tell you what- we can ban unions if we can also ban certain businesses from our communities .
To bring this back on topic , I say the proper response is a 1000 \ % tariff on IBM mainframes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll tell you what- we can ban unions if we can also ban certain businesses from our communities.
To bring this back on topic, I say the proper response is a 1000\% tariff on IBM mainframes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453276</id>
	<title>Dominance.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And so begins the American slide into irrelevance...  Hooray.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And so begins the American slide into irrelevance... Hooray .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And so begins the American slide into irrelevance...  Hooray.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453876</id>
	<title>Thank you Slashdot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a soon-to-be IBM ex-employee caught up in this latest round of layoffs (or "Resource Action" in IBM corporate lingo), I'm glad that IBM's total disregard for its own country's workforce is finally coming to light. IBM has been engaged in this behavior for years now, yet it has done such a good job burying the information so it gets little to no coverage by the media. In fact, according to a leaked management-level PPT posted on the Alliance@IBM site, IBM upper management is actively implementing a policy where even employees rated by their managers as solid contributors are artificially given lower ratings in subsequent years if their salary is deemed too high so that there is a pretext to push them out of the company and re-hire cheaper labor abroad. While I truly hope that the government would provide much needed intervention, I sincerely doubt any meaningful action will be taken. The best thing we can do is ensure as much media coverage as possible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a soon-to-be IBM ex-employee caught up in this latest round of layoffs ( or " Resource Action " in IBM corporate lingo ) , I 'm glad that IBM 's total disregard for its own country 's workforce is finally coming to light .
IBM has been engaged in this behavior for years now , yet it has done such a good job burying the information so it gets little to no coverage by the media .
In fact , according to a leaked management-level PPT posted on the Alliance @ IBM site , IBM upper management is actively implementing a policy where even employees rated by their managers as solid contributors are artificially given lower ratings in subsequent years if their salary is deemed too high so that there is a pretext to push them out of the company and re-hire cheaper labor abroad .
While I truly hope that the government would provide much needed intervention , I sincerely doubt any meaningful action will be taken .
The best thing we can do is ensure as much media coverage as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a soon-to-be IBM ex-employee caught up in this latest round of layoffs (or "Resource Action" in IBM corporate lingo), I'm glad that IBM's total disregard for its own country's workforce is finally coming to light.
IBM has been engaged in this behavior for years now, yet it has done such a good job burying the information so it gets little to no coverage by the media.
In fact, according to a leaked management-level PPT posted on the Alliance@IBM site, IBM upper management is actively implementing a policy where even employees rated by their managers as solid contributors are artificially given lower ratings in subsequent years if their salary is deemed too high so that there is a pretext to push them out of the company and re-hire cheaper labor abroad.
While I truly hope that the government would provide much needed intervention, I sincerely doubt any meaningful action will be taken.
The best thing we can do is ensure as much media coverage as possible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455314</id>
	<title>I wouldn't have  minded  it if IBM didn't lie.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268426520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a background in economics as well as IT and I understand how it helps you and in the long run helps us in the US. </p><p>I do have a problem with IBM <i>lying</i> and saying they moved to India because they were unable to find "qualified Americans". That is what IBM said in the Wall Street Journal a couple of years ago and I'm having a problem finding it. The same goes for Intel and any other company that uses the "can't find qualified Americans" excuse.</p><p>That's what is really pissing me off. It was a slap in the face and it made me waste precious time on a dead end career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a background in economics as well as IT and I understand how it helps you and in the long run helps us in the US .
I do have a problem with IBM lying and saying they moved to India because they were unable to find " qualified Americans " .
That is what IBM said in the Wall Street Journal a couple of years ago and I 'm having a problem finding it .
The same goes for Intel and any other company that uses the " ca n't find qualified Americans " excuse.That 's what is really pissing me off .
It was a slap in the face and it made me waste precious time on a dead end career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a background in economics as well as IT and I understand how it helps you and in the long run helps us in the US.
I do have a problem with IBM lying and saying they moved to India because they were unable to find "qualified Americans".
That is what IBM said in the Wall Street Journal a couple of years ago and I'm having a problem finding it.
The same goes for Intel and any other company that uses the "can't find qualified Americans" excuse.That's what is really pissing me off.
It was a slap in the face and it made me waste precious time on a dead end career.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31457660</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268392860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The funny thing is large IBM Customers, (I.E. Banks and financial institutions) have been outsourcing to India for a while.<br>IBM was seen as a kind of insurance policy where if there was a major problem with their code, they could log a High Severity Support Request with IBM, and get access to highly trained, highly skilled support.</p><p>In many cases, these outsourced Indians would EMAIL gigs of logs, complete code, and complete database tables, without encryption, without password protection, or any other care about user privacy, or system security.</p><p>What I find funny is that it may be entirely plausible that the same company that has been outsourced to write the code in the first place, may end up pilfering those very employees IBM has been picking up in India, to further reduce costs, and not pay the IBM tax.</p><p>Also, any savings derived from hiring Software Engineers in India will be lost by providing more Western middle management to supervise and manage these people.</p><p>I dont understand the Direction IBM is taking, and to be quite honest, I am glad that I am no longer a shareholder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The funny thing is large IBM Customers , ( I.E .
Banks and financial institutions ) have been outsourcing to India for a while.IBM was seen as a kind of insurance policy where if there was a major problem with their code , they could log a High Severity Support Request with IBM , and get access to highly trained , highly skilled support.In many cases , these outsourced Indians would EMAIL gigs of logs , complete code , and complete database tables , without encryption , without password protection , or any other care about user privacy , or system security.What I find funny is that it may be entirely plausible that the same company that has been outsourced to write the code in the first place , may end up pilfering those very employees IBM has been picking up in India , to further reduce costs , and not pay the IBM tax.Also , any savings derived from hiring Software Engineers in India will be lost by providing more Western middle management to supervise and manage these people.I dont understand the Direction IBM is taking , and to be quite honest , I am glad that I am no longer a shareholder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The funny thing is large IBM Customers, (I.E.
Banks and financial institutions) have been outsourcing to India for a while.IBM was seen as a kind of insurance policy where if there was a major problem with their code, they could log a High Severity Support Request with IBM, and get access to highly trained, highly skilled support.In many cases, these outsourced Indians would EMAIL gigs of logs, complete code, and complete database tables, without encryption, without password protection, or any other care about user privacy, or system security.What I find funny is that it may be entirely plausible that the same company that has been outsourced to write the code in the first place, may end up pilfering those very employees IBM has been picking up in India, to further reduce costs, and not pay the IBM tax.Also, any savings derived from hiring Software Engineers in India will be lost by providing more Western middle management to supervise and manage these people.I dont understand the Direction IBM is taking, and to be quite honest, I am glad that I am no longer a shareholder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454516</id>
	<title>Ron Hira is an attention whore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He has nothing of substance to say other than bang on some outsourcing drum that makes him look good. Kind of like Michelle Malkin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He has nothing of substance to say other than bang on some outsourcing drum that makes him look good .
Kind of like Michelle Malkin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He has nothing of substance to say other than bang on some outsourcing drum that makes him look good.
Kind of like Michelle Malkin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</id>
	<title>If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>Third Position</author>
	<datestamp>1268417160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...then why are you hiding it?</p><blockquote><div><p>Big Blue only provides its global headcount, and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past.</p></div></blockquote><p>Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.<br><i><br>Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.<br></i>--Thomas Jefferson</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...then why are you hiding it ? Big Blue only provides its global headcount , and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past.Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in , should n't be allowed to operate in those countries.Merchants have no country .
The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.--Thomas Jefferson</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...then why are you hiding it?Big Blue only provides its global headcount, and an IBM spokesman confirmed that disclosure of US headcount is a thing of the past.Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.--Thomas Jefferson
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</id>
	<title>Regulate</title>
	<author>homer\_s</author>
	<datestamp>1268417520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire. They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.<br> <br>

Every business should be forced to hire in the locality where they make money. This should be done not only countrywide, but statewide, citywide and blockwide. <br> <br>

Forget about stupid things like 'comparative advantage' - we will follow Mao's great leap forward. That will create a lot of wealth.<br> <br>

<br> <br>

For the truly stupid, I'm being sarcastic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire .
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things .
Every business should be forced to hire in the locality where they make money .
This should be done not only countrywide , but statewide , citywide and blockwide .
Forget about stupid things like 'comparative advantage ' - we will follow Mao 's great leap forward .
That will create a lot of wealth .
For the truly stupid , I 'm being sarcastic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.
Every business should be forced to hire in the locality where they make money.
This should be done not only countrywide, but statewide, citywide and blockwide.
Forget about stupid things like 'comparative advantage' - we will follow Mao's great leap forward.
That will create a lot of wealth.
For the truly stupid, I'm being sarcastic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453386</id>
	<title>Uh..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Duh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Duh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Duh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454762</id>
	<title>Re:indeed, so what.</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1268424240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same?</p></div><p>Beause those other companies are probably not getting stimulus dollars, complements of the US taxpayer.</p><p>Those stimulus dollare are being paid by US tax payers because those dollars are supposed to help US taxpayers. What IBM does not want the US tax payers to know is: those dollars are actually going to India.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same ? Beause those other companies are probably not getting stimulus dollars , complements of the US taxpayer.Those stimulus dollare are being paid by US tax payers because those dollars are supposed to help US taxpayers .
What IBM does not want the US tax payers to know is : those dollars are actually going to India .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same?Beause those other companies are probably not getting stimulus dollars, complements of the US taxpayer.Those stimulus dollare are being paid by US tax payers because those dollars are supposed to help US taxpayers.
What IBM does not want the US tax payers to know is: those dollars are actually going to India.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454526</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Why is it that Americans (especially on Slashdot) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism, but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs?"</p><p>Because that's how Randroid libertarians operate? The operating model is "f*@# you, I've got mine."</p><p>Some are just coming to the realization that the unfettered globalist free market billionaires may not actually be operating in their interest!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Why is it that Americans ( especially on Slashdot ) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism , but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs ?
" Because that 's how Randroid libertarians operate ?
The operating model is " f * @ # you , I 've got mine .
" Some are just coming to the realization that the unfettered globalist free market billionaires may not actually be operating in their interest !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Why is it that Americans (especially on Slashdot) proclaim they love the free market and libertarianism, but then get all fucking communist when it affects THEIR jobs?
"Because that's how Randroid libertarians operate?
The operating model is "f*@# you, I've got mine.
"Some are just coming to the realization that the unfettered globalist free market billionaires may not actually be operating in their interest!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453818</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1268419800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'By hiding its offshoring, IBM is doing a disservice to America &mdash; through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers.'</p></div><p>To quote Dick Cheney, "So?"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'By hiding its offshoring , IBM is doing a disservice to America    through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers .
'To quote Dick Cheney , " So ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'By hiding its offshoring, IBM is doing a disservice to America — through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policy makers.
'To quote Dick Cheney, "So?
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454010</id>
	<title>ibm was born in new york state</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1268420640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>binghampton, to be exact</p><p>it used to be a major employer in hudson valley towns like kingston, poughkeepsie, fishkill, westchester, and new york city, and all the rust belt cities along the thruway corridor to buffalo</p><p>but this started shrinking as it went international, and accelerated as the political center of gravity within the company has shifted to bangalore. hey, it makes sense economically, and its good for india. but ibm has shafted its birthplace, and as someone from the area, so i say fuck them for the betrayal</p><p>as a historical major and influential employer, it has developed relationships with new york state and the feds for decades. therefore, the story of ibm is a shining burning example of how corporate money destroys my country</p><p>if you want to start your own ibm hate machine, and you should, start here:</p><p><a href="http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&amp;backgroundid=00434" title="niemanwatchdog.org">http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&amp;backgroundid=00434</a> [niemanwatchdog.org]</p><p>dear frothing at the mouth tea party morons:</p><p>stop listening to your demagogues who redirect your rightful anger at your government. the people robbing you blind are corporations, not your fellow poor citizens who just need healthcare. money influence in our government and our congress is destroying our nation. stop focusing your hate at your poor brothers and sisters. focus your righteous anger at the corrupting influence of corporate dollars that pay for the propaganda that fools you, all the while stabbing you in the back with a smile</p><p>stop hating your fellow man who just needs healthcare, your anger's direction is paid for by healthcare companies and their demagogues for hire</p><p>don't focus your anger on your government. focus your anger on the assholes in your government who are supposed to represent you but instead sell you out to the highest bidder. you need to reform government, not destroy it</p><p>and finally, focus your anger on the corporations themselves, who take away your job, defy your rights, and destroy your country with their special interests, all the while paying demagogue assholes to tell you that it is your poor neighbor who is to blame, because he needs healthcare and unemployment benefits, that they deny him</p><p>if this is too michael moore for you, recall that what motivated him to initially make films like roger and me was hatred for gm for destroying flint michigan. dear tea party right winger: you get poorer, and you get angrier, and they get richer, and they take your lifeblood out of this country. you want to talk patriotism? go ahead and hate michael moore for his left leaning beliefs if you want, but don't hate him because he fights for YOU: the future third world residents of the formerly great country known as the usa</p><p>know the real villain: corporations, not the government. the government is only the villain insofar as corporations have paid them to be</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>binghampton , to be exactit used to be a major employer in hudson valley towns like kingston , poughkeepsie , fishkill , westchester , and new york city , and all the rust belt cities along the thruway corridor to buffalobut this started shrinking as it went international , and accelerated as the political center of gravity within the company has shifted to bangalore .
hey , it makes sense economically , and its good for india .
but ibm has shafted its birthplace , and as someone from the area , so i say fuck them for the betrayalas a historical major and influential employer , it has developed relationships with new york state and the feds for decades .
therefore , the story of ibm is a shining burning example of how corporate money destroys my countryif you want to start your own ibm hate machine , and you should , start here : http : //www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm ? fuseaction = background.view&amp;backgroundid = 00434 [ niemanwatchdog.org ] dear frothing at the mouth tea party morons : stop listening to your demagogues who redirect your rightful anger at your government .
the people robbing you blind are corporations , not your fellow poor citizens who just need healthcare .
money influence in our government and our congress is destroying our nation .
stop focusing your hate at your poor brothers and sisters .
focus your righteous anger at the corrupting influence of corporate dollars that pay for the propaganda that fools you , all the while stabbing you in the back with a smilestop hating your fellow man who just needs healthcare , your anger 's direction is paid for by healthcare companies and their demagogues for hiredo n't focus your anger on your government .
focus your anger on the assholes in your government who are supposed to represent you but instead sell you out to the highest bidder .
you need to reform government , not destroy itand finally , focus your anger on the corporations themselves , who take away your job , defy your rights , and destroy your country with their special interests , all the while paying demagogue assholes to tell you that it is your poor neighbor who is to blame , because he needs healthcare and unemployment benefits , that they deny himif this is too michael moore for you , recall that what motivated him to initially make films like roger and me was hatred for gm for destroying flint michigan .
dear tea party right winger : you get poorer , and you get angrier , and they get richer , and they take your lifeblood out of this country .
you want to talk patriotism ?
go ahead and hate michael moore for his left leaning beliefs if you want , but do n't hate him because he fights for YOU : the future third world residents of the formerly great country known as the usaknow the real villain : corporations , not the government .
the government is only the villain insofar as corporations have paid them to be</tokentext>
<sentencetext>binghampton, to be exactit used to be a major employer in hudson valley towns like kingston, poughkeepsie, fishkill, westchester, and new york city, and all the rust belt cities along the thruway corridor to buffalobut this started shrinking as it went international, and accelerated as the political center of gravity within the company has shifted to bangalore.
hey, it makes sense economically, and its good for india.
but ibm has shafted its birthplace, and as someone from the area, so i say fuck them for the betrayalas a historical major and influential employer, it has developed relationships with new york state and the feds for decades.
therefore, the story of ibm is a shining burning example of how corporate money destroys my countryif you want to start your own ibm hate machine, and you should, start here:http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&amp;backgroundid=00434 [niemanwatchdog.org]dear frothing at the mouth tea party morons:stop listening to your demagogues who redirect your rightful anger at your government.
the people robbing you blind are corporations, not your fellow poor citizens who just need healthcare.
money influence in our government and our congress is destroying our nation.
stop focusing your hate at your poor brothers and sisters.
focus your righteous anger at the corrupting influence of corporate dollars that pay for the propaganda that fools you, all the while stabbing you in the back with a smilestop hating your fellow man who just needs healthcare, your anger's direction is paid for by healthcare companies and their demagogues for hiredon't focus your anger on your government.
focus your anger on the assholes in your government who are supposed to represent you but instead sell you out to the highest bidder.
you need to reform government, not destroy itand finally, focus your anger on the corporations themselves, who take away your job, defy your rights, and destroy your country with their special interests, all the while paying demagogue assholes to tell you that it is your poor neighbor who is to blame, because he needs healthcare and unemployment benefits, that they deny himif this is too michael moore for you, recall that what motivated him to initially make films like roger and me was hatred for gm for destroying flint michigan.
dear tea party right winger: you get poorer, and you get angrier, and they get richer, and they take your lifeblood out of this country.
you want to talk patriotism?
go ahead and hate michael moore for his left leaning beliefs if you want, but don't hate him because he fights for YOU: the future third world residents of the formerly great country known as the usaknow the real villain: corporations, not the government.
the government is only the villain insofar as corporations have paid them to be</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454090</id>
	<title>Hiding Large Numbers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268421000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a former IBM employee, I know that a lot of software development-related positions was offshored to India and Brazil. Those numbers IBM is hiding are big ones, for sure!</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a former IBM employee , I know that a lot of software development-related positions was offshored to India and Brazil .
Those numbers IBM is hiding are big ones , for sure !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a former IBM employee, I know that a lot of software development-related positions was offshored to India and Brazil.
Those numbers IBM is hiding are big ones, for sure!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454048</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Qzukk</author>
	<datestamp>1268420760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>now days they have gotten way over done</i></p><p>That's not the union's fault, its job is to negotiate for more.  It's management's job to negotiate for more on their side too.</p><p>The problem is that management long since abdicated its responsibility to negotiate properly.  This is half entitlement to a labor force (but if I say "no" everyone goes on strike<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;\_;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;\_;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;\_;), the other half is simply "we'll sign the contract then declare bankruptcy and throw it in the shredder".</p><p>Or to put it simply, if someone is upset about homeowners getting a bailout on the mortgage terms they should have known better than to sign, but they think that unions are evil for tricking management into signing their labor contract, that person is a hypocrite.  Legality and appropriateness aside, I hope that Obama's takeover of GM has stabbed this practice in the neck and hopefully from here on out management will think twice before signing over their company's future to the union.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>now days they have gotten way over doneThat 's not the union 's fault , its job is to negotiate for more .
It 's management 's job to negotiate for more on their side too.The problem is that management long since abdicated its responsibility to negotiate properly .
This is half entitlement to a labor force ( but if I say " no " everyone goes on strike ; \ _ ; ; \ _ ; ; \ _ ; ) , the other half is simply " we 'll sign the contract then declare bankruptcy and throw it in the shredder " .Or to put it simply , if someone is upset about homeowners getting a bailout on the mortgage terms they should have known better than to sign , but they think that unions are evil for tricking management into signing their labor contract , that person is a hypocrite .
Legality and appropriateness aside , I hope that Obama 's takeover of GM has stabbed this practice in the neck and hopefully from here on out management will think twice before signing over their company 's future to the union .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>now days they have gotten way over doneThat's not the union's fault, its job is to negotiate for more.
It's management's job to negotiate for more on their side too.The problem is that management long since abdicated its responsibility to negotiate properly.
This is half entitlement to a labor force (but if I say "no" everyone goes on strike ;\_; ;\_; ;\_;), the other half is simply "we'll sign the contract then declare bankruptcy and throw it in the shredder".Or to put it simply, if someone is upset about homeowners getting a bailout on the mortgage terms they should have known better than to sign, but they think that unions are evil for tricking management into signing their labor contract, that person is a hypocrite.
Legality and appropriateness aside, I hope that Obama's takeover of GM has stabbed this practice in the neck and hopefully from here on out management will think twice before signing over their company's future to the union.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</id>
	<title>Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268416860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries, exploit their resources to depletion, even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking, turning them upside down in every way, leave aside employment.</p><p>but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.</p><p>so basically, its 'america can trade with anyone, but noone can trade with america'. screw that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries , exploit their resources to depletion , even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking , turning them upside down in every way , leave aside employment.but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.so basically , its 'america can trade with anyone , but noone can trade with america' .
screw that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries, exploit their resources to depletion, even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking, turning them upside down in every way, leave aside employment.but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.so basically, its 'america can trade with anyone, but noone can trade with america'.
screw that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454030</id>
	<title>How about Security / Trade Secrets issue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know this is even stupid to mention, but -- naturally -- US Govt should drop IBM off of the vendor list, because they share source code with countries that leak like buckets shot with a shotgun (or are already on a Watch List for many reasons).</p><p>It should be a CAT I finding for DISA that cannot be mitigated.</p><p>Simple as that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this is even stupid to mention , but -- naturally -- US Govt should drop IBM off of the vendor list , because they share source code with countries that leak like buckets shot with a shotgun ( or are already on a Watch List for many reasons ) .It should be a CAT I finding for DISA that can not be mitigated.Simple as that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this is even stupid to mention, but -- naturally -- US Govt should drop IBM off of the vendor list, because they share source code with countries that leak like buckets shot with a shotgun (or are already on a Watch List for many reasons).It should be a CAT I finding for DISA that cannot be mitigated.Simple as that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31458582</id>
	<title>The free market will take care of it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268397240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As the price of seeds go up people will plant alternatives.</p><p>Its better than communism which is what you describe and having the government run things. The market is flawless and seeds from other plants can be used. Eventually consumers will be upset and ban Monsanto if it really is so bad. Let the market run things and problems will go away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As the price of seeds go up people will plant alternatives.Its better than communism which is what you describe and having the government run things .
The market is flawless and seeds from other plants can be used .
Eventually consumers will be upset and ban Monsanto if it really is so bad .
Let the market run things and problems will go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the price of seeds go up people will plant alternatives.Its better than communism which is what you describe and having the government run things.
The market is flawless and seeds from other plants can be used.
Eventually consumers will be upset and ban Monsanto if it really is so bad.
Let the market run things and problems will go away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453790</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, many DO love the FREE market.<br>
 We just do not like it rigged by nations fixing their money, AND having trade barriers,  AND dumping their goods, AND  subsidizing and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , many DO love the FREE market .
We just do not like it rigged by nations fixing their money , AND having trade barriers , AND dumping their goods , AND subsidizing and ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, many DO love the FREE market.
We just do not like it rigged by nations fixing their money, AND having trade barriers,  AND dumping their goods, AND  subsidizing and ....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453650</id>
	<title>Re:ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>can you explain your comment further? i'm curious why you say ibm's screwed the hudson valley and the special favors that new york state has given it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>can you explain your comment further ?
i 'm curious why you say ibm 's screwed the hudson valley and the special favors that new york state has given it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>can you explain your comment further?
i'm curious why you say ibm's screwed the hudson valley and the special favors that new york state has given it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454200</id>
	<title>Re:Desired conclusions come first</title>
	<author>raddan</author>
	<datestamp>1268421540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.</p></div><p>And, I think, this is the essence of a free market.  Free Marketeers don't (er, <em>shouldn't</em>) stipulate <em>why</em> people can choose not to purchase a product or service, just that they can.  If a number of people decide, collectively, to boycott IBM, that's about as "Free Market" as it gets.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One can be a libertarian and love the free market , but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.And , I think , this is the essence of a free market .
Free Marketeers do n't ( er , should n't ) stipulate why people can choose not to purchase a product or service , just that they can .
If a number of people decide , collectively , to boycott IBM , that 's about as " Free Market " as it gets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.And, I think, this is the essence of a free market.
Free Marketeers don't (er, shouldn't) stipulate why people can choose not to purchase a product or service, just that they can.
If a number of people decide, collectively, to boycott IBM, that's about as "Free Market" as it gets.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454680</id>
	<title>Re:Regulate</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1268423880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire. They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.</p></div><p>I don't know about *all* companies, but certainly those companies that do business with the US federal government and/or companies that get special favors, such as tax breaks and stimulus money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire .
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.I do n't know about * all * companies , but certainly those companies that do business with the US federal government and/or companies that get special favors , such as tax breaks and stimulus money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.
They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.I don't know about *all* companies, but certainly those companies that do business with the US federal government and/or companies that get special favors, such as tax breaks and stimulus money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454800</id>
	<title>Globalization and Capitalism for you not them</title>
	<author>geber22</author>
	<datestamp>1268424420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's funny how all these companies that are laying of U.S. workers talk about globalization.  As a shareholder in many companies, I wonder why they don't outsource the Executive jobs?  I mean why should I pay some U.S. CEO a billion dollars, when I can pay a similarly talented, if not more talented individual, from anywhere else in the world a million dollars to do the same job.

People want globalization and capitalism for others, and they want protectionism and socialism for themselves.    When they start outsourcing executive jobs and quit giving corporate America bailouts, I'll believe that everybody wants globalization and capitalism.

Furthermore as a U.S. taxpayer, I have no problem with IBM offshoring every single last one of their jobs, just don't come to my government asking for business when you do.  In fact feel free to move to these other countries that are so great for business, good riddance!</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's funny how all these companies that are laying of U.S. workers talk about globalization .
As a shareholder in many companies , I wonder why they do n't outsource the Executive jobs ?
I mean why should I pay some U.S. CEO a billion dollars , when I can pay a similarly talented , if not more talented individual , from anywhere else in the world a million dollars to do the same job .
People want globalization and capitalism for others , and they want protectionism and socialism for themselves .
When they start outsourcing executive jobs and quit giving corporate America bailouts , I 'll believe that everybody wants globalization and capitalism .
Furthermore as a U.S. taxpayer , I have no problem with IBM offshoring every single last one of their jobs , just do n't come to my government asking for business when you do .
In fact feel free to move to these other countries that are so great for business , good riddance !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's funny how all these companies that are laying of U.S. workers talk about globalization.
As a shareholder in many companies, I wonder why they don't outsource the Executive jobs?
I mean why should I pay some U.S. CEO a billion dollars, when I can pay a similarly talented, if not more talented individual, from anywhere else in the world a million dollars to do the same job.
People want globalization and capitalism for others, and they want protectionism and socialism for themselves.
When they start outsourcing executive jobs and quit giving corporate America bailouts, I'll believe that everybody wants globalization and capitalism.
Furthermore as a U.S. taxpayer, I have no problem with IBM offshoring every single last one of their jobs, just don't come to my government asking for business when you do.
In fact feel free to move to these other countries that are so great for business, good riddance!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455354</id>
	<title>Re:There are no American corporations.</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1268426640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to be pretty poor to not be able to tell the difference between living in the US and living in, say, Haiti.  If it were not this way, there would be no illegal immigration problem.  Right now, a person's standard of living increases about 100 times when the cross the border from Mexico to the US.  Even if all they do is sit on a street corner with a cup they will make more money in a day than the could make in rural Mexico in a month.  If they get a job as a undocumented worker paid less than minimum wage off the books they make in a day what they could get in a year in Mexico.</p><p>This is why the US has to be destroyed, utterly.  It is an offense to the entire world that their populations want to come here so badly that they will risk death, torture and slavery just to be in the US.  And between offshoring, WTO and unchecked immigration we are about 50\% of the way towards utter destruction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to be pretty poor to not be able to tell the difference between living in the US and living in , say , Haiti .
If it were not this way , there would be no illegal immigration problem .
Right now , a person 's standard of living increases about 100 times when the cross the border from Mexico to the US .
Even if all they do is sit on a street corner with a cup they will make more money in a day than the could make in rural Mexico in a month .
If they get a job as a undocumented worker paid less than minimum wage off the books they make in a day what they could get in a year in Mexico.This is why the US has to be destroyed , utterly .
It is an offense to the entire world that their populations want to come here so badly that they will risk death , torture and slavery just to be in the US .
And between offshoring , WTO and unchecked immigration we are about 50 \ % of the way towards utter destruction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to be pretty poor to not be able to tell the difference between living in the US and living in, say, Haiti.
If it were not this way, there would be no illegal immigration problem.
Right now, a person's standard of living increases about 100 times when the cross the border from Mexico to the US.
Even if all they do is sit on a street corner with a cup they will make more money in a day than the could make in rural Mexico in a month.
If they get a job as a undocumented worker paid less than minimum wage off the books they make in a day what they could get in a year in Mexico.This is why the US has to be destroyed, utterly.
It is an offense to the entire world that their populations want to come here so badly that they will risk death, torture and slavery just to be in the US.
And between offshoring, WTO and unchecked immigration we are about 50\% of the way towards utter destruction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453910</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>spiffmastercow</author>
	<datestamp>1268420220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not really.  It's going to move 20,000 or so Indians from East-Asia level poverty to US level poverty.  An improvement?  Maybe, but if India and China were able to get its quality and prices higher, it would benefit everyone.  You might think you're winning now, but just wait 20 years when you're trying to prevent IBM from going to another country because it can get workers for a marginally cheaper rate.  <br> <br>
The reality of the situation is that there's enough wealth in the world that everyone could have a decent standard of living, but corporatism forces all the money to the top, and then the rich hold onto the wealth, divvying out only enough to placate the masses.  Communism may be flawed, but I can definately get on board with the sentiment behind it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really .
It 's going to move 20,000 or so Indians from East-Asia level poverty to US level poverty .
An improvement ?
Maybe , but if India and China were able to get its quality and prices higher , it would benefit everyone .
You might think you 're winning now , but just wait 20 years when you 're trying to prevent IBM from going to another country because it can get workers for a marginally cheaper rate .
The reality of the situation is that there 's enough wealth in the world that everyone could have a decent standard of living , but corporatism forces all the money to the top , and then the rich hold onto the wealth , divvying out only enough to placate the masses .
Communism may be flawed , but I can definately get on board with the sentiment behind it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really.
It's going to move 20,000 or so Indians from East-Asia level poverty to US level poverty.
An improvement?
Maybe, but if India and China were able to get its quality and prices higher, it would benefit everyone.
You might think you're winning now, but just wait 20 years when you're trying to prevent IBM from going to another country because it can get workers for a marginally cheaper rate.
The reality of the situation is that there's enough wealth in the world that everyone could have a decent standard of living, but corporatism forces all the money to the top, and then the rich hold onto the wealth, divvying out only enough to placate the masses.
Communism may be flawed, but I can definately get on board with the sentiment behind it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455378</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268426700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also speaking as an IBMer, and can totally agree with this.</p><p>Indians working in IBM ***IN INDIA*** appear to be essentially useless without any ability to do anything on their own.  If you've not asked them to do something specific, they'll happily sit doing nothing for the 5.5 hours before you get into the office, instead of acting on their own initiative and doing something that needs doing (even when its obvious, e.g. a list of defects that need fixing, tests that need running etc).  Curiously, if they are brought on-shore they seem to be pretty good and do show some independent thought.  Maybe we only see the absolute 0.0001\% top of the class best sent over?  Perhaps when they are out of the Indian culture and somewhere like Europe, they have the balls to actually speak up?</p><p>There will however always be a place for IBMers in their home countries - this role will be to assign work and defects offshore, code review work coming in from off shore, send reviewed code back off shore and tel them to stop copy-pasting from Google, then go explain to the management why things are riddled with defects and behind schedule, then repeat until you are way over schedule and way over budget.  Then eventually when the shit really hits the fan, the on-shore technical people will be expected to snatch as much as possible from the jaws of defeat by pulling 70 hour weeks to make things work.</p><p>Oh and by the way I've been in IBM for under 4 years, I'm 27 and joined directly from uni and *even I* can see this is madness - this is not a comment from an old-school IBMer pining for the "old days"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also speaking as an IBMer , and can totally agree with this.Indians working in IBM * * * IN INDIA * * * appear to be essentially useless without any ability to do anything on their own .
If you 've not asked them to do something specific , they 'll happily sit doing nothing for the 5.5 hours before you get into the office , instead of acting on their own initiative and doing something that needs doing ( even when its obvious , e.g .
a list of defects that need fixing , tests that need running etc ) .
Curiously , if they are brought on-shore they seem to be pretty good and do show some independent thought .
Maybe we only see the absolute 0.0001 \ % top of the class best sent over ?
Perhaps when they are out of the Indian culture and somewhere like Europe , they have the balls to actually speak up ? There will however always be a place for IBMers in their home countries - this role will be to assign work and defects offshore , code review work coming in from off shore , send reviewed code back off shore and tel them to stop copy-pasting from Google , then go explain to the management why things are riddled with defects and behind schedule , then repeat until you are way over schedule and way over budget .
Then eventually when the shit really hits the fan , the on-shore technical people will be expected to snatch as much as possible from the jaws of defeat by pulling 70 hour weeks to make things work.Oh and by the way I 've been in IBM for under 4 years , I 'm 27 and joined directly from uni and * even I * can see this is madness - this is not a comment from an old-school IBMer pining for the " old days " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also speaking as an IBMer, and can totally agree with this.Indians working in IBM ***IN INDIA*** appear to be essentially useless without any ability to do anything on their own.
If you've not asked them to do something specific, they'll happily sit doing nothing for the 5.5 hours before you get into the office, instead of acting on their own initiative and doing something that needs doing (even when its obvious, e.g.
a list of defects that need fixing, tests that need running etc).
Curiously, if they are brought on-shore they seem to be pretty good and do show some independent thought.
Maybe we only see the absolute 0.0001\% top of the class best sent over?
Perhaps when they are out of the Indian culture and somewhere like Europe, they have the balls to actually speak up?There will however always be a place for IBMers in their home countries - this role will be to assign work and defects offshore, code review work coming in from off shore, send reviewed code back off shore and tel them to stop copy-pasting from Google, then go explain to the management why things are riddled with defects and behind schedule, then repeat until you are way over schedule and way over budget.
Then eventually when the shit really hits the fan, the on-shore technical people will be expected to snatch as much as possible from the jaws of defeat by pulling 70 hour weeks to make things work.Oh and by the way I've been in IBM for under 4 years, I'm 27 and joined directly from uni and *even I* can see this is madness - this is not a comment from an old-school IBMer pining for the "old days"!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453616</id>
	<title>Re:ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>Attack DAWWG</author>
	<datestamp>1268418960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>fuck ibm, treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas.</i> </p><p>You mean, allow it to spend unlimited funds in U.S. political campaigns?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>fuck ibm , treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas .
You mean , allow it to spend unlimited funds in U.S. political campaigns ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> fuck ibm, treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas.
You mean, allow it to spend unlimited funds in U.S. political campaigns?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453958</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?</p><p>Doesn't matter.</p><p>If present trends continue...</p><p>The Democrats will lose control of both houses in November.  After that...</p><p>If the Republicans were to get 67 seats in the Senate, they'd impeach Obama, refuse to seat Biden's choice for a new VP, impeach Biden, then install the new Republican Speaker of the House and have full government control.  But I don't think that's in the offing, because I don't think that by worst/best case predictions they could take 67 seats, and they wouldn't attempt impeachment with anything less than a lock.  If they had a like, they'd dig up charges, even if it was "running up too big a deficit" or "endangering the nation by permitting terrorists to have civil trials."</p><p>But far more likely...</p><p>The government will do next to nothing for 2011 and 2012 - not even the things that need to be done.  The Republicans will insist that everything be done in the most Conservative way possible, and Obama won't.  The Republicans will also "Go Nuclear" about the first time the Democrats block anything, and make the filibuster a thing of the past.  There will be no further extension of unemployment benefits.  There may well be a Supreme Court vacancy go unfilled for a year or more, since the Republicans won't confirm any Obama nominations even slightly left of Scalia or Thomas.</p><p>Back to "protect its citizens," there are "citizens" and there are "rabble."  "Citizens" have income, investments, and assets.  "Rabble" are granted nominal citizenship by the Constitution, but they don't pull their weight and are a drain on the nation.  Preventing any possibility of voting fraud is far more important than making sure that their voting rights are preserved.  The Republican party has always been vitally concerned for its "citizens."</p><p>Things are going to be really bad by 2012.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens ? Does n't matter.If present trends continue...The Democrats will lose control of both houses in November .
After that...If the Republicans were to get 67 seats in the Senate , they 'd impeach Obama , refuse to seat Biden 's choice for a new VP , impeach Biden , then install the new Republican Speaker of the House and have full government control .
But I do n't think that 's in the offing , because I do n't think that by worst/best case predictions they could take 67 seats , and they would n't attempt impeachment with anything less than a lock .
If they had a like , they 'd dig up charges , even if it was " running up too big a deficit " or " endangering the nation by permitting terrorists to have civil trials .
" But far more likely...The government will do next to nothing for 2011 and 2012 - not even the things that need to be done .
The Republicans will insist that everything be done in the most Conservative way possible , and Obama wo n't .
The Republicans will also " Go Nuclear " about the first time the Democrats block anything , and make the filibuster a thing of the past .
There will be no further extension of unemployment benefits .
There may well be a Supreme Court vacancy go unfilled for a year or more , since the Republicans wo n't confirm any Obama nominations even slightly left of Scalia or Thomas.Back to " protect its citizens , " there are " citizens " and there are " rabble .
" " Citizens " have income , investments , and assets .
" Rabble " are granted nominal citizenship by the Constitution , but they do n't pull their weight and are a drain on the nation .
Preventing any possibility of voting fraud is far more important than making sure that their voting rights are preserved .
The Republican party has always been vitally concerned for its " citizens .
" Things are going to be really bad by 2012 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?Doesn't matter.If present trends continue...The Democrats will lose control of both houses in November.
After that...If the Republicans were to get 67 seats in the Senate, they'd impeach Obama, refuse to seat Biden's choice for a new VP, impeach Biden, then install the new Republican Speaker of the House and have full government control.
But I don't think that's in the offing, because I don't think that by worst/best case predictions they could take 67 seats, and they wouldn't attempt impeachment with anything less than a lock.
If they had a like, they'd dig up charges, even if it was "running up too big a deficit" or "endangering the nation by permitting terrorists to have civil trials.
"But far more likely...The government will do next to nothing for 2011 and 2012 - not even the things that need to be done.
The Republicans will insist that everything be done in the most Conservative way possible, and Obama won't.
The Republicans will also "Go Nuclear" about the first time the Democrats block anything, and make the filibuster a thing of the past.
There will be no further extension of unemployment benefits.
There may well be a Supreme Court vacancy go unfilled for a year or more, since the Republicans won't confirm any Obama nominations even slightly left of Scalia or Thomas.Back to "protect its citizens," there are "citizens" and there are "rabble.
"  "Citizens" have income, investments, and assets.
"Rabble" are granted nominal citizenship by the Constitution, but they don't pull their weight and are a drain on the nation.
Preventing any possibility of voting fraud is far more important than making sure that their voting rights are preserved.
The Republican party has always been vitally concerned for its "citizens.
"Things are going to be really bad by 2012.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453118</id>
	<title>Unions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268416800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Although unions generally lead to sloth, corruption and economic failure, in this one narrow instance I must admit they are providing a useful service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Although unions generally lead to sloth , corruption and economic failure , in this one narrow instance I must admit they are providing a useful service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although unions generally lead to sloth, corruption and economic failure, in this one narrow instance I must admit they are providing a useful service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455530</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Tuoqui</author>
	<datestamp>1268427420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure with what money... their unemployment or welfare checks?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure with what money... their unemployment or welfare checks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure with what money... their unemployment or welfare checks?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453840</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>jdgeorge</author>
	<datestamp>1268419920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...then why are you hiding it?</p></div><p>IBM appears to be following the money. The seem to be employing more people in growth markets, fewer people in stagnating or declining markets, presumably to position themselves to do more business where the money is. Reporting only global numbers may make it more difficult for various governments to say "you're not employing enough of your people here to do business here".</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.</p></div><p>I don't see how reporting only global employment numbers is "against the national interests" of the US. If the US cared about this, they would pass a law requiring companies to report US employment numbers.</p><p>If what's needed to support national interests is not required by the government, then the government is the party who is doing something wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...then why are you hiding it ? IBM appears to be following the money .
The seem to be employing more people in growth markets , fewer people in stagnating or declining markets , presumably to position themselves to do more business where the money is .
Reporting only global numbers may make it more difficult for various governments to say " you 're not employing enough of your people here to do business here " .Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in , should n't be allowed to operate in those countries.I do n't see how reporting only global employment numbers is " against the national interests " of the US .
If the US cared about this , they would pass a law requiring companies to report US employment numbers.If what 's needed to support national interests is not required by the government , then the government is the party who is doing something wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...then why are you hiding it?IBM appears to be following the money.
The seem to be employing more people in growth markets, fewer people in stagnating or declining markets, presumably to position themselves to do more business where the money is.
Reporting only global numbers may make it more difficult for various governments to say "you're not employing enough of your people here to do business here".Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.I don't see how reporting only global employment numbers is "against the national interests" of the US.
If the US cared about this, they would pass a law requiring companies to report US employment numbers.If what's needed to support national interests is not required by the government, then the government is the party who is doing something wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453704</id>
	<title>Re:ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>diamondsw</author>
	<datestamp>1268419320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an IBMer, I can say the parent speaks the truth. Every time I see Sam Palmisano with another government official, my blood boils. That man has destroyed an excellent company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an IBMer , I can say the parent speaks the truth .
Every time I see Sam Palmisano with another government official , my blood boils .
That man has destroyed an excellent company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an IBMer, I can say the parent speaks the truth.
Every time I see Sam Palmisano with another government official, my blood boils.
That man has destroyed an excellent company.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454108</id>
	<title>Not fair for IBM to have it both ways</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1268421060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of posters are saying "IBM should be able to hire whoever" and "IBM should not have to give any information that IBM is not legally required to give."</p><p>Okay fine. But, if IBM wants to enjoy all the lavish benefits of being a US company, such as: stimulus money, tax breaks, and preferential treatment in obtaining government contracts; then shouldn't IBM actually be a US company?</p><p>IBM is saying "the US government should be especially kind to us, because we provide all these jobs for US citizens" and "helping IBM is a good value for US taxpayers because those tax dollars come back to help the US."</p><p>But, are those assertions true? Should the US taxpayers be forced to give IBM special treatment if those assertions are not true? And how do we really know what is, or is not, true; if IBM refuses to tell us?</p><p>Seems to me that if IBM wants special treatment from the US taxpayers, then IBM needs to tell the taxpayers what is really going on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of posters are saying " IBM should be able to hire whoever " and " IBM should not have to give any information that IBM is not legally required to give .
" Okay fine .
But , if IBM wants to enjoy all the lavish benefits of being a US company , such as : stimulus money , tax breaks , and preferential treatment in obtaining government contracts ; then should n't IBM actually be a US company ? IBM is saying " the US government should be especially kind to us , because we provide all these jobs for US citizens " and " helping IBM is a good value for US taxpayers because those tax dollars come back to help the US .
" But , are those assertions true ?
Should the US taxpayers be forced to give IBM special treatment if those assertions are not true ?
And how do we really know what is , or is not , true ; if IBM refuses to tell us ? Seems to me that if IBM wants special treatment from the US taxpayers , then IBM needs to tell the taxpayers what is really going on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of posters are saying "IBM should be able to hire whoever" and "IBM should not have to give any information that IBM is not legally required to give.
"Okay fine.
But, if IBM wants to enjoy all the lavish benefits of being a US company, such as: stimulus money, tax breaks, and preferential treatment in obtaining government contracts; then shouldn't IBM actually be a US company?IBM is saying "the US government should be especially kind to us, because we provide all these jobs for US citizens" and "helping IBM is a good value for US taxpayers because those tax dollars come back to help the US.
"But, are those assertions true?
Should the US taxpayers be forced to give IBM special treatment if those assertions are not true?
And how do we really know what is, or is not, true; if IBM refuses to tell us?Seems to me that if IBM wants special treatment from the US taxpayers, then IBM needs to tell the taxpayers what is really going on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453546</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source is also a driver</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1268418540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See. Evidence that open source won't eliminate software development jobs - as long as you live in a third-world country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See .
Evidence that open source wo n't eliminate software development jobs - as long as you live in a third-world country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See.
Evidence that open source won't eliminate software development jobs - as long as you live in a third-world country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31462618</id>
	<title>Re:Regulate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268474520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.</p></div><p>The general public aside, shouldn't <em>shareholders</em> be entitled to this information?<br>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.The general public aside , should n't shareholders be entitled to this information ?
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.The general public aside, shouldn't shareholders be entitled to this information?
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453364</id>
	<title>Should be law...</title>
	<author>Thinine</author>
	<datestamp>1268417820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>All companies, especially publicly held ones, should be forced to report their labor figures every quarter along with their financial information. Just like we should track capital flowing in and out of our country, we should be able to track jobs as well.

Remember, the more you know...</htmltext>
<tokenext>All companies , especially publicly held ones , should be forced to report their labor figures every quarter along with their financial information .
Just like we should track capital flowing in and out of our country , we should be able to track jobs as well .
Remember , the more you know.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All companies, especially publicly held ones, should be forced to report their labor figures every quarter along with their financial information.
Just like we should track capital flowing in and out of our country, we should be able to track jobs as well.
Remember, the more you know...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455640</id>
	<title>Re:let me see</title>
	<author>drsquare</author>
	<datestamp>1268384700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If any American corporation is doing something you don't like in your country, it is YOUR government's fault for allowing it, and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power.</p></div></blockquote><p>Does this apply to governments installed by America in the first place?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If any American corporation is doing something you do n't like in your country , it is YOUR government 's fault for allowing it , and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power.Does this apply to governments installed by America in the first place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If any American corporation is doing something you don't like in your country, it is YOUR government's fault for allowing it, and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power.Does this apply to governments installed by America in the first place?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454198</id>
	<title>Corporations are mandated to do this.</title>
	<author>sackvillian</author>
	<datestamp>1268421540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's old news but it should be stressed that corporations are legally obligated toward their shareholders to maximize profits, and this leads to countless sad and ironic situations like this one.  Corporations are thus legally obligated to use lobbyists to bend laws, corporations are obligated to outsource jobs even if those are currently held by shareholders themselves, corporations are obligated to maximize externalities which usually wreaks havoc on the environment, etc.  Hell, assuming that releasing their headcounts would hurt their business (as it would!), they are basically legally obligated not to do so.</p><p>That is totally fucked up and backwards, plain and simple.  Like American drug laws, it seems inconceivable that any group of reasonable legislators would ever <i>design</i> this current system.  We have historical quirks and abuses to thanks for this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's old news but it should be stressed that corporations are legally obligated toward their shareholders to maximize profits , and this leads to countless sad and ironic situations like this one .
Corporations are thus legally obligated to use lobbyists to bend laws , corporations are obligated to outsource jobs even if those are currently held by shareholders themselves , corporations are obligated to maximize externalities which usually wreaks havoc on the environment , etc .
Hell , assuming that releasing their headcounts would hurt their business ( as it would !
) , they are basically legally obligated not to do so.That is totally fucked up and backwards , plain and simple .
Like American drug laws , it seems inconceivable that any group of reasonable legislators would ever design this current system .
We have historical quirks and abuses to thanks for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's old news but it should be stressed that corporations are legally obligated toward their shareholders to maximize profits, and this leads to countless sad and ironic situations like this one.
Corporations are thus legally obligated to use lobbyists to bend laws, corporations are obligated to outsource jobs even if those are currently held by shareholders themselves, corporations are obligated to maximize externalities which usually wreaks havoc on the environment, etc.
Hell, assuming that releasing their headcounts would hurt their business (as it would!
), they are basically legally obligated not to do so.That is totally fucked up and backwards, plain and simple.
Like American drug laws, it seems inconceivable that any group of reasonable legislators would ever design this current system.
We have historical quirks and abuses to thanks for this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454346</id>
	<title>I'll get laughed at for this but...</title>
	<author>Chineseyes</author>
	<datestamp>1268422380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is an easy solution to this, and it is easier said than done.  Stop working for multi-national corporations. Start your own business, work for smaller local businesses or universities, and only do business with other like-minded individuals.  Companies like IBM are able to do this only because the best and the brightest in the US allow them too.  This is especially true in the world of IT where the startup costs are so low that if every developer, syadmin, dba, etc decided they were going to start their own companies and do business with each other exclusively we could.  If IT ends up like manufacturing in 20 years we have no one to blame but ourselves we have way more power and formal education than factory workers ever had.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is an easy solution to this , and it is easier said than done .
Stop working for multi-national corporations .
Start your own business , work for smaller local businesses or universities , and only do business with other like-minded individuals .
Companies like IBM are able to do this only because the best and the brightest in the US allow them too .
This is especially true in the world of IT where the startup costs are so low that if every developer , syadmin , dba , etc decided they were going to start their own companies and do business with each other exclusively we could .
If IT ends up like manufacturing in 20 years we have no one to blame but ourselves we have way more power and formal education than factory workers ever had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is an easy solution to this, and it is easier said than done.
Stop working for multi-national corporations.
Start your own business, work for smaller local businesses or universities, and only do business with other like-minded individuals.
Companies like IBM are able to do this only because the best and the brightest in the US allow them too.
This is especially true in the world of IT where the startup costs are so low that if every developer, syadmin, dba, etc decided they were going to start their own companies and do business with each other exclusively we could.
If IT ends up like manufacturing in 20 years we have no one to blame but ourselves we have way more power and formal education than factory workers ever had.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453642</id>
	<title>floating point numbe minimum representable value</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1268419080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The headcount probably went below that on IBM computers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The headcount probably went below that on IBM computers : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The headcount probably went below that on IBM computers :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453566</id>
	<title>Why is IBM doing this culling?</title>
	<author>reporter</author>
	<datestamp>1268418660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>IBM is clearly trying to  hide its US headcount for the purpose of hiding its replacing American employees with foreign workers in other countries.
<p>
IBM is one of the few companies that remained consistently profitable during the worst recession since the Great Depression.  This profitability was accomplished by replacing high-wage Americans with low-wage foreigners in India, China, etc.  Seeing the writing on the wall, IBM management has decided to accelerate the reduction of the American workforce.
</p><p>
The shareholders love this strategy since it maximizes their return on investment.  The only problem is a political one:  Washington will retaliate against IBM if IBM drastically reduces its American workforce in favor of cheap overseas labor.  Hence, IBM has ceased reporting the size of the American workforce.
</p><p>
Dirty?  Disgusting?  Yes.  Good business strategy?  Yes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IBM is clearly trying to hide its US headcount for the purpose of hiding its replacing American employees with foreign workers in other countries .
IBM is one of the few companies that remained consistently profitable during the worst recession since the Great Depression .
This profitability was accomplished by replacing high-wage Americans with low-wage foreigners in India , China , etc .
Seeing the writing on the wall , IBM management has decided to accelerate the reduction of the American workforce .
The shareholders love this strategy since it maximizes their return on investment .
The only problem is a political one : Washington will retaliate against IBM if IBM drastically reduces its American workforce in favor of cheap overseas labor .
Hence , IBM has ceased reporting the size of the American workforce .
Dirty ? Disgusting ?
Yes. Good business strategy ?
Yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IBM is clearly trying to  hide its US headcount for the purpose of hiding its replacing American employees with foreign workers in other countries.
IBM is one of the few companies that remained consistently profitable during the worst recession since the Great Depression.
This profitability was accomplished by replacing high-wage Americans with low-wage foreigners in India, China, etc.
Seeing the writing on the wall, IBM management has decided to accelerate the reduction of the American workforce.
The shareholders love this strategy since it maximizes their return on investment.
The only problem is a political one:  Washington will retaliate against IBM if IBM drastically reduces its American workforce in favor of cheap overseas labor.
Hence, IBM has ceased reporting the size of the American workforce.
Dirty?  Disgusting?
Yes.  Good business strategy?
Yes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268418600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you surprised with real unemployment approaching 20\% that citizens of the U.S. might be just a little bit upset over a company shipping jobs overseas but then claiming to be a US company when bidding for U.S. government jobs and tax breaks?</p><p>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you surprised with real unemployment approaching 20 \ % that citizens of the U.S. might be just a little bit upset over a company shipping jobs overseas but then claiming to be a US company when bidding for U.S. government jobs and tax breaks ? What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you surprised with real unemployment approaching 20\% that citizens of the U.S. might be just a little bit upset over a company shipping jobs overseas but then claiming to be a US company when bidding for U.S. government jobs and tax breaks?What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31457796</id>
	<title>Service Company</title>
	<author>ViViDboarder</author>
	<datestamp>1268393460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You do realize that one of the biggest parts of IBM right now is it's Global Services branch and IBM operates as the worlds largest consulting firm in numbers of consultants?  Services need to be located where they operate.  There are a lot of opportunities for consulting in other countries so there are branches in those companies.
<br> <br>
There are also consulting branches in the USA.  You go where the client is.  It's not "outsourcing".  If there is a country with more need for consultants why would it be considered outsourcing that you operate with more consultants in that location?
<br> <br>
This is just silly.  They are likely hiding the numbers because people will freak out and feel "betrayed" that more and more employees are operating overseas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do realize that one of the biggest parts of IBM right now is it 's Global Services branch and IBM operates as the worlds largest consulting firm in numbers of consultants ?
Services need to be located where they operate .
There are a lot of opportunities for consulting in other countries so there are branches in those companies .
There are also consulting branches in the USA .
You go where the client is .
It 's not " outsourcing " .
If there is a country with more need for consultants why would it be considered outsourcing that you operate with more consultants in that location ?
This is just silly .
They are likely hiding the numbers because people will freak out and feel " betrayed " that more and more employees are operating overseas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do realize that one of the biggest parts of IBM right now is it's Global Services branch and IBM operates as the worlds largest consulting firm in numbers of consultants?
Services need to be located where they operate.
There are a lot of opportunities for consulting in other countries so there are branches in those companies.
There are also consulting branches in the USA.
You go where the client is.
It's not "outsourcing".
If there is a country with more need for consultants why would it be considered outsourcing that you operate with more consultants in that location?
This is just silly.
They are likely hiding the numbers because people will freak out and feel "betrayed" that more and more employees are operating overseas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454796</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268424360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Americans learn innovation.  Indians and Chinese learn rote copying.  I have had in the past to hire chinese staff.  Useless. Require micromanagement.  The US workers take the initiative, and are independent pretty quick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Americans learn innovation .
Indians and Chinese learn rote copying .
I have had in the past to hire chinese staff .
Useless. Require micromanagement .
The US workers take the initiative , and are independent pretty quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Americans learn innovation.
Indians and Chinese learn rote copying.
I have had in the past to hire chinese staff.
Useless. Require micromanagement.
The US workers take the initiative, and are independent pretty quick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454638</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No,  what you're seeing is a successful campaign to ruin unions.   I haven't seen anyone hurt by a union.  In fact, most of the civil benefits of working in the U.S. is due to union efforts.  Little things like 40-hour work week.    Paid vacation.  Healthcare.  Overtime.  These are all things unions got at great cost.   The boom of the 1950s and 60s is all due to the gains unions got for workers.</p><p>Assuming you're in I.T., think about the benefit of a union when you're working those nights and weekends without overtime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , what you 're seeing is a successful campaign to ruin unions .
I have n't seen anyone hurt by a union .
In fact , most of the civil benefits of working in the U.S. is due to union efforts .
Little things like 40-hour work week .
Paid vacation .
Healthcare. Overtime .
These are all things unions got at great cost .
The boom of the 1950s and 60s is all due to the gains unions got for workers.Assuming you 're in I.T. , think about the benefit of a union when you 're working those nights and weekends without overtime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No,  what you're seeing is a successful campaign to ruin unions.
I haven't seen anyone hurt by a union.
In fact, most of the civil benefits of working in the U.S. is due to union efforts.
Little things like 40-hour work week.
Paid vacation.
Healthcare.  Overtime.
These are all things unions got at great cost.
The boom of the 1950s and 60s is all due to the gains unions got for workers.Assuming you're in I.T., think about the benefit of a union when you're working those nights and weekends without overtime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456788</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source is also a driver</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268389440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find it fascinating how easy is to off shore work. Funny thing is that often control of business follows together with the profits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find it fascinating how easy is to off shore work .
Funny thing is that often control of business follows together with the profits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find it fascinating how easy is to off shore work.
Funny thing is that often control of business follows together with the profits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456144</id>
	<title>I give them 10 years.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268386860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IBM's 'Smarter Planet' BS is bullshit. I worked for them for several months as a contractor in a callcenter they're building and staffing with folks paid 33\% of what previous employees were doing the same jobs. They'd be able to do more with less if they didn't rely on cobol systems that were 30+ years old that can't intercommunicate at all, thus requiring manpower that they're now shifting from well-paid workers to people who are just glad to have a job that's not bagging groceries.</p><p>I was reminded of the fall of the Empire in Asimov's foundation. They talk about being at the height of their innovation but they've been rotting from the inside for decades.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IBM 's 'Smarter Planet ' BS is bullshit .
I worked for them for several months as a contractor in a callcenter they 're building and staffing with folks paid 33 \ % of what previous employees were doing the same jobs .
They 'd be able to do more with less if they did n't rely on cobol systems that were 30 + years old that ca n't intercommunicate at all , thus requiring manpower that they 're now shifting from well-paid workers to people who are just glad to have a job that 's not bagging groceries.I was reminded of the fall of the Empire in Asimov 's foundation .
They talk about being at the height of their innovation but they 've been rotting from the inside for decades .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IBM's 'Smarter Planet' BS is bullshit.
I worked for them for several months as a contractor in a callcenter they're building and staffing with folks paid 33\% of what previous employees were doing the same jobs.
They'd be able to do more with less if they didn't rely on cobol systems that were 30+ years old that can't intercommunicate at all, thus requiring manpower that they're now shifting from well-paid workers to people who are just glad to have a job that's not bagging groceries.I was reminded of the fall of the Empire in Asimov's foundation.
They talk about being at the height of their innovation but they've been rotting from the inside for decades.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453432</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>linhares</author>
	<datestamp>1268418060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.</p></div><p>So you support Iran's and NK's and China's blocking of youtube/twitter/google, etc?  If you don't, watch out for your double standards.  If you really think companies shouldn't be allowed to exist while annoying their governments, please go work for the gleat leader.  I hate IBM but I must say this; they're on their right not to disclose what isn't required.  </p><p>Principles (free market, free speech, etc) are only meaningful if you stand by them when they are inconvenient.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in , should n't be allowed to operate in those countries.So you support Iran 's and NK 's and China 's blocking of youtube/twitter/google , etc ?
If you do n't , watch out for your double standards .
If you really think companies should n't be allowed to exist while annoying their governments , please go work for the gleat leader .
I hate IBM but I must say this ; they 're on their right not to disclose what is n't required .
Principles ( free market , free speech , etc ) are only meaningful if you stand by them when they are inconvenient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Companies that operate contrary to the national interest of the countries they operate in, shouldn't be allowed to operate in those countries.So you support Iran's and NK's and China's blocking of youtube/twitter/google, etc?
If you don't, watch out for your double standards.
If you really think companies shouldn't be allowed to exist while annoying their governments, please go work for the gleat leader.
I hate IBM but I must say this; they're on their right not to disclose what isn't required.
Principles (free market, free speech, etc) are only meaningful if you stand by them when they are inconvenient.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454088</id>
	<title>Re:Regulate</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1268420940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.</p></div><p>Which is one reason corporations move overseas. Too much intrusion by the government. Foreign companies have the advantage in that when the US gov't starts sticking their nose in company business, they get told to f*ck off.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.</p></div><p>The Boeing (and other exporting companies) would shrink dramatically. Most of their products are sold overseas.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.Which is one reason corporations move overseas .
Too much intrusion by the government .
Foreign companies have the advantage in that when the US gov't starts sticking their nose in company business , they get told to f * ck off.They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.The Boeing ( and other exporting companies ) would shrink dramatically .
Most of their products are sold overseas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The govt should pass a new law that forces companies of all sizes to provide a breakdown of where they do business and where they hire.Which is one reason corporations move overseas.
Too much intrusion by the government.
Foreign companies have the advantage in that when the US gov't starts sticking their nose in company business, they get told to f*ck off.They should punish companies that do not hire where they make and sell things.The Boeing (and other exporting companies) would shrink dramatically.
Most of their products are sold overseas.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453670</id>
	<title>Policymakers</title>
	<author>darjen</author>
	<datestamp>1268419200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as if they ever understand what they are doing either way? what a laugh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as if they ever understand what they are doing either way ?
what a laugh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as if they ever understand what they are doing either way?
what a laugh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453240</id>
	<title>Misleading signals?</title>
	<author>Chris Burke</author>
	<datestamp>1268417340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think ceasing to disclose U.S. employment sends a very clear labor market signal:  The off-shoring will continue, probably at a rate much higher than you were thinking or are comfortable with.  What more does a policy maker really need to know than "IBM is shipping jobs over seas so fast they don't want to talk about it"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think ceasing to disclose U.S. employment sends a very clear labor market signal : The off-shoring will continue , probably at a rate much higher than you were thinking or are comfortable with .
What more does a policy maker really need to know than " IBM is shipping jobs over seas so fast they do n't want to talk about it " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think ceasing to disclose U.S. employment sends a very clear labor market signal:  The off-shoring will continue, probably at a rate much higher than you were thinking or are comfortable with.
What more does a policy maker really need to know than "IBM is shipping jobs over seas so fast they don't want to talk about it"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453174</id>
	<title>Re:Two can play that game...</title>
	<author>SargentDU</author>
	<datestamp>1268417100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With what desired result? Further closing of their shops in America? More unemployment for the US? You would really help the union then, not!</htmltext>
<tokenext>With what desired result ?
Further closing of their shops in America ?
More unemployment for the US ?
You would really help the union then , not !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With what desired result?
Further closing of their shops in America?
More unemployment for the US?
You would really help the union then, not!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</id>
	<title>ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's an indian company</p><p>its' time for the usa, and especially new york state, to stop granting ibm special favors. all ibm has done for new york is slowly kill the hudson valley technology employment sector, including entire cities. ibm has betrayed its birthplace</p><p>fuck ibm, treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas. because ibm most certainly treats the usa like that, while the usa still coddles and mollifies it, like a deluded lover. ibm's betrayal of the usa and especially the hudson valley is longstanding and obvious, and now it is just passive aggressive, like a cheating spouse who has gotten away with countless crimes and is now embarrassed at how thoroughly he has duped their spouse</p><p>its a charade. fuck ibm, ibm only deserves scorn and hostility, unless you're in bangalore</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's an indian companyits ' time for the usa , and especially new york state , to stop granting ibm special favors .
all ibm has done for new york is slowly kill the hudson valley technology employment sector , including entire cities .
ibm has betrayed its birthplacefuck ibm , treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas .
because ibm most certainly treats the usa like that , while the usa still coddles and mollifies it , like a deluded lover .
ibm 's betrayal of the usa and especially the hudson valley is longstanding and obvious , and now it is just passive aggressive , like a cheating spouse who has gotten away with countless crimes and is now embarrassed at how thoroughly he has duped their spouseits a charade .
fuck ibm , ibm only deserves scorn and hostility , unless you 're in bangalore</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's an indian companyits' time for the usa, and especially new york state, to stop granting ibm special favors.
all ibm has done for new york is slowly kill the hudson valley technology employment sector, including entire cities.
ibm has betrayed its birthplacefuck ibm, treat it like a foreign entity with questionable and dubious agendas.
because ibm most certainly treats the usa like that, while the usa still coddles and mollifies it, like a deluded lover.
ibm's betrayal of the usa and especially the hudson valley is longstanding and obvious, and now it is just passive aggressive, like a cheating spouse who has gotten away with countless crimes and is now embarrassed at how thoroughly he has duped their spouseits a charade.
fuck ibm, ibm only deserves scorn and hostility, unless you're in bangalore</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454460</id>
	<title>Re:let me see</title>
	<author>agrounds</author>
	<datestamp>1268422860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see that you have no problem throwing around gross generalizations, so I will toss a few of my own.</p><p>If any American corporation is doing something you don't like in your country, it is YOUR government's fault for allowing it, and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power.</p><p>"But wait!" you cry, as the sad realization of your own impotence in the face of a corrupt system that you cannot overthrow and fix no matter how much you might swear and yell and scream.  This system allowed it to happen.  You are the victim.  Right?</p><p>See how that works?</p><p>Yeah, it's the same shit for us too.  Life sucks all the way around, but don't act like you can sit there in your ivory tower and preach about the ills of the world.  We are all to blame equally for the mess we are in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see that you have no problem throwing around gross generalizations , so I will toss a few of my own.If any American corporation is doing something you do n't like in your country , it is YOUR government 's fault for allowing it , and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power .
" But wait !
" you cry , as the sad realization of your own impotence in the face of a corrupt system that you can not overthrow and fix no matter how much you might swear and yell and scream .
This system allowed it to happen .
You are the victim .
Right ? See how that works ? Yeah , it 's the same shit for us too .
Life sucks all the way around , but do n't act like you can sit there in your ivory tower and preach about the ills of the world .
We are all to blame equally for the mess we are in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see that you have no problem throwing around gross generalizations, so I will toss a few of my own.If any American corporation is doing something you don't like in your country, it is YOUR government's fault for allowing it, and ultimately YOURS for letting them stay in power.
"But wait!
" you cry, as the sad realization of your own impotence in the face of a corrupt system that you cannot overthrow and fix no matter how much you might swear and yell and scream.
This system allowed it to happen.
You are the victim.
Right?See how that works?Yeah, it's the same shit for us too.
Life sucks all the way around, but don't act like you can sit there in your ivory tower and preach about the ills of the world.
We are all to blame equally for the mess we are in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454244</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268421840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WTF are you posting about? US immigration, and trade, policies are way beyond lavishly generous, they are outright insane. I openly defy you to name another industrialized nation that is more generous.</p><p>For the most part, other nations complaining about US immigration and trade policies is like Al-Qaeda complaining about terrorism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF are you posting about ?
US immigration , and trade , policies are way beyond lavishly generous , they are outright insane .
I openly defy you to name another industrialized nation that is more generous.For the most part , other nations complaining about US immigration and trade policies is like Al-Qaeda complaining about terrorism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF are you posting about?
US immigration, and trade, policies are way beyond lavishly generous, they are outright insane.
I openly defy you to name another industrialized nation that is more generous.For the most part, other nations complaining about US immigration and trade policies is like Al-Qaeda complaining about terrorism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453264</id>
	<title>Open Source is also a driver</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run a small company. The reality is, off shoring especially with the Open Source market makes entirely too much sense from a business perspective. I can have 4 United States based people, and another 12 strategically located throughout the world. The cost of the 4 is the same as the 12. It is better for my customers, and frankly my pocket book. Also, to be honest Open Source expertise is easier to obtain off american shores.</p><p>The downside to the largest economy in the world is that it is also ridiculously expensive. Of course not as bad as western Europe but still...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run a small company .
The reality is , off shoring especially with the Open Source market makes entirely too much sense from a business perspective .
I can have 4 United States based people , and another 12 strategically located throughout the world .
The cost of the 4 is the same as the 12 .
It is better for my customers , and frankly my pocket book .
Also , to be honest Open Source expertise is easier to obtain off american shores.The downside to the largest economy in the world is that it is also ridiculously expensive .
Of course not as bad as western Europe but still.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run a small company.
The reality is, off shoring especially with the Open Source market makes entirely too much sense from a business perspective.
I can have 4 United States based people, and another 12 strategically located throughout the world.
The cost of the 4 is the same as the 12.
It is better for my customers, and frankly my pocket book.
Also, to be honest Open Source expertise is easier to obtain off american shores.The downside to the largest economy in the world is that it is also ridiculously expensive.
Of course not as bad as western Europe but still...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454470</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1268422920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real unemployment rate, which measures the number of people who are looking for jobs but can't find jobs, is <b>under 10\%.</b></p><p>Your claim that it is "approaching 20\%" is a lie.</p><p>And no, you can't just make up your own definitions of words. I know this is the Internet, but try to have some integrity, Maxo-Texas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real unemployment rate , which measures the number of people who are looking for jobs but ca n't find jobs , is under 10 \ % .Your claim that it is " approaching 20 \ % " is a lie.And no , you ca n't just make up your own definitions of words .
I know this is the Internet , but try to have some integrity , Maxo-Texas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real unemployment rate, which measures the number of people who are looking for jobs but can't find jobs, is under 10\%.Your claim that it is "approaching 20\%" is a lie.And no, you can't just make up your own definitions of words.
I know this is the Internet, but try to have some integrity, Maxo-Texas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453288</id>
	<title>Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1268417520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Labor at IBM is unionized? And these unions can't see any connection between unionized labor in the US, and IBM's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor? Hey, if you want to stop IBM from shipping jobs overseas, why don't you try unionizing all of their overseas employees?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Labor at IBM is unionized ?
And these unions ca n't see any connection between unionized labor in the US , and IBM 's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor ?
Hey , if you want to stop IBM from shipping jobs overseas , why do n't you try unionizing all of their overseas employees ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Labor at IBM is unionized?
And these unions can't see any connection between unionized labor in the US, and IBM's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor?
Hey, if you want to stop IBM from shipping jobs overseas, why don't you try unionizing all of their overseas employees?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454504</id>
	<title>Re:Unions</title>
	<author>larry bagina</author>
	<datestamp>1268423100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Great, now tell us why the majority of union workers are government employees.  What are the ravages of Big Government?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great , now tell us why the majority of union workers are government employees .
What are the ravages of Big Government ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great, now tell us why the majority of union workers are government employees.
What are the ravages of Big Government?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455394</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>PolygamousRanchKid </author>
	<datestamp>1268426760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> We already have over 100k in India,</p> </div><p>IBM's internal company cricket team is like totally going to trounce the competition!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>and we're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.</p></div><p>Yo, and in soccer (US), football (rest of the planet) as well!
</p><p>I guess IBM sees these sports as "growth potential."
</p><p>Maybe the world's governments need to investigate IBM's plan for world domination of sports.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We already have over 100k in India , IBM 's internal company cricket team is like totally going to trounce the competition ! and we 're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.Yo , and in soccer ( US ) , football ( rest of the planet ) as well !
I guess IBM sees these sports as " growth potential .
" Maybe the world 's governments need to investigate IBM 's plan for world domination of sports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> We already have over 100k in India, IBM's internal company cricket team is like totally going to trounce the competition!and we're ramping up in Argentina and Brazil.Yo, and in soccer (US), football (rest of the planet) as well!
I guess IBM sees these sports as "growth potential.
"
Maybe the world's governments need to investigate IBM's plan for world domination of sports.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454002</id>
	<title>Open Source is the real issue</title>
	<author>Orga</author>
	<datestamp>1268420580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cheap open source software gives developers from around the world competitiveness compared to American workers.  Without companies ability to demand higher prices for their closed-source they're unable to pay higher wages to their employees and to remain competitive in the market place must look at cutting labor costs since they can't charge more for their software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap open source software gives developers from around the world competitiveness compared to American workers .
Without companies ability to demand higher prices for their closed-source they 're unable to pay higher wages to their employees and to remain competitive in the market place must look at cutting labor costs since they ca n't charge more for their software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap open source software gives developers from around the world competitiveness compared to American workers.
Without companies ability to demand higher prices for their closed-source they're unable to pay higher wages to their employees and to remain competitive in the market place must look at cutting labor costs since they can't charge more for their software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453204</id>
	<title>Re:Two can play that game...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>US General Services Administration, for those of us not well-versed in government acronyms.</htmltext>
<tokenext>US General Services Administration , for those of us not well-versed in government acronyms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US General Services Administration, for those of us not well-versed in government acronyms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453690</id>
	<title>Re:Unions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unions also protect employees from the ravages of Corporate America.</p><p>You forget how badly employees were treated back before Unions.  Alot of the places that 'treat their employees just fine without unions.'  Started doing so, and continue to do so.. in order to keep the unions out, not because of some altruistic feelings for their employees.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions also protect employees from the ravages of Corporate America.You forget how badly employees were treated back before Unions .
Alot of the places that 'treat their employees just fine without unions .
' Started doing so , and continue to do so.. in order to keep the unions out , not because of some altruistic feelings for their employees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions also protect employees from the ravages of Corporate America.You forget how badly employees were treated back before Unions.
Alot of the places that 'treat their employees just fine without unions.
'  Started doing so, and continue to do so.. in order to keep the unions out, not because of some altruistic feelings for their employees.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31458564</id>
	<title>Re:Unions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268397180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For a time, I was a grocery bagger in New Mexico. I was forced to join the union - and I do mean forced - which extracted a small sum ($2.00 if I remember correctly) from my paycheck. I was paid New Mexico minimum wage, received no days off, and was told that being sick more than two days in a year was considered excessive by the unions. For the job I had I'm not saying that these stipulations were particularly egregious (nor dissimilar from standards everywhere in the country) but my $2.00 provided absolutely no benefit to me. At best I can conceptualize the union helping to raise the minimum wage, but for the unions to so strongly leverage the state government to require union membership is nothing short of a travesty. If enough people are willing to cross lines such that you feel the need to LEGALLY BAR THEM FROM PERFORMING A JOB WITHOUT PAYING YOU then it's obvious the cross you have chosen to carry doesn't have much sway in the hearts of the employable public.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For a time , I was a grocery bagger in New Mexico .
I was forced to join the union - and I do mean forced - which extracted a small sum ( $ 2.00 if I remember correctly ) from my paycheck .
I was paid New Mexico minimum wage , received no days off , and was told that being sick more than two days in a year was considered excessive by the unions .
For the job I had I 'm not saying that these stipulations were particularly egregious ( nor dissimilar from standards everywhere in the country ) but my $ 2.00 provided absolutely no benefit to me .
At best I can conceptualize the union helping to raise the minimum wage , but for the unions to so strongly leverage the state government to require union membership is nothing short of a travesty .
If enough people are willing to cross lines such that you feel the need to LEGALLY BAR THEM FROM PERFORMING A JOB WITHOUT PAYING YOU then it 's obvious the cross you have chosen to carry does n't have much sway in the hearts of the employable public .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For a time, I was a grocery bagger in New Mexico.
I was forced to join the union - and I do mean forced - which extracted a small sum ($2.00 if I remember correctly) from my paycheck.
I was paid New Mexico minimum wage, received no days off, and was told that being sick more than two days in a year was considered excessive by the unions.
For the job I had I'm not saying that these stipulations were particularly egregious (nor dissimilar from standards everywhere in the country) but my $2.00 provided absolutely no benefit to me.
At best I can conceptualize the union helping to raise the minimum wage, but for the unions to so strongly leverage the state government to require union membership is nothing short of a travesty.
If enough people are willing to cross lines such that you feel the need to LEGALLY BAR THEM FROM PERFORMING A JOB WITHOUT PAYING YOU then it's obvious the cross you have chosen to carry doesn't have much sway in the hearts of the employable public.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453806</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries, exploit their resources to depletion, even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking, turning them upside down in every way, leave aside employment.</p><p>but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.</p></div><p>I'm not sure why you think these things are mutually exclusive.  Just because I complain that my friends, family and I are being screwed, doesn't mean it doesn't bother me that people in other countries are being screwed as well(which also indirectly screws me, as it devalues my position).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries , exploit their resources to depletion , even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking , turning them upside down in every way , leave aside employment.but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.I 'm not sure why you think these things are mutually exclusive .
Just because I complain that my friends , family and I are being screwed , does n't mean it does n't bother me that people in other countries are being screwed as well ( which also indirectly screws me , as it devalues my position ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its not a problem when u.s. companies buy and fire workers in overseas countries, exploit their resources to depletion, even interfere in their laws and customs through lobbymaking, turning them upside down in every way, leave aside employment.but its a problem when americans lose jobs to whatever reason.I'm not sure why you think these things are mutually exclusive.
Just because I complain that my friends, family and I are being screwed, doesn't mean it doesn't bother me that people in other countries are being screwed as well(which also indirectly screws me, as it devalues my position).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456994</id>
	<title>Re:Numbers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268390160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the companies don't supply the numbers, the government can still compute them and do all the<br>analysis with it too. How, well all US based employees get a W2 from IBM which files this data<br>with the IRS and it has IBMs company/tax id. Thus, query the IRS database based on IBMs tax id,<br>and add up all the females vs. males. Based on the social secuirty #s one knows their ages, and<br>of course their address's as to where they work for the distibution of hiring across the US. The<br>company also has to file with the labor department to satisfy EEOC rules on ethnic backgrounds.<br>Whether this info is broken down by age, race and male/female to correlate with the IRS and<br>social security data is unknown. Thus, the information can be derived and published. The reason<br>IBM did this is recently ORACLE, MSoft, CISCO won a case in court and proved to the FTC that this<br>info would affect their corporate marketing/competition etc a trade secret. What it does it prevents a customer asking so how many US workers will be working on my contract and eliminates the negative image. Other competitors using US workers can't price the contract to compete with IBM cheap labor since they will have the advantage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the companies do n't supply the numbers , the government can still compute them and do all theanalysis with it too .
How , well all US based employees get a W2 from IBM which files this datawith the IRS and it has IBMs company/tax id .
Thus , query the IRS database based on IBMs tax id,and add up all the females vs. males. Based on the social secuirty # s one knows their ages , andof course their address 's as to where they work for the distibution of hiring across the US .
Thecompany also has to file with the labor department to satisfy EEOC rules on ethnic backgrounds.Whether this info is broken down by age , race and male/female to correlate with the IRS andsocial security data is unknown .
Thus , the information can be derived and published .
The reasonIBM did this is recently ORACLE , MSoft , CISCO won a case in court and proved to the FTC that thisinfo would affect their corporate marketing/competition etc a trade secret .
What it does it prevents a customer asking so how many US workers will be working on my contract and eliminates the negative image .
Other competitors using US workers ca n't price the contract to compete with IBM cheap labor since they will have the advantage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the companies don't supply the numbers, the government can still compute them and do all theanalysis with it too.
How, well all US based employees get a W2 from IBM which files this datawith the IRS and it has IBMs company/tax id.
Thus, query the IRS database based on IBMs tax id,and add up all the females vs. males. Based on the social secuirty #s one knows their ages, andof course their address's as to where they work for the distibution of hiring across the US.
Thecompany also has to file with the labor department to satisfy EEOC rules on ethnic backgrounds.Whether this info is broken down by age, race and male/female to correlate with the IRS andsocial security data is unknown.
Thus, the information can be derived and published.
The reasonIBM did this is recently ORACLE, MSoft, CISCO won a case in court and proved to the FTC that thisinfo would affect their corporate marketing/competition etc a trade secret.
What it does it prevents a customer asking so how many US workers will be working on my contract and eliminates the negative image.
Other competitors using US workers can't price the contract to compete with IBM cheap labor since they will have the advantage.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454032</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453136</id>
	<title>Two can play that game...</title>
	<author>MikeRT</author>
	<datestamp>1268416860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It would be trivial for those policy makers to order GSA to drop IBM from its vendor list...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be trivial for those policy makers to order GSA to drop IBM from its vendor list.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be trivial for those policy makers to order GSA to drop IBM from its vendor list...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31462624</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>tyroneking</author>
	<datestamp>1268474640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speaking as someone who works with teams in England, India, Poland, Switzerland, Germany and the US - I can tell you that 'speaking up' is definitely a trait stronger in England than anywhere else.<br>People in the England do it too much, India not enough, the Polish are about half way (they speak up, but about weird things). The Swiss are way more cynical than I thought, so they speak up like the British do - in a mildly sarcastic way (which never helps).<br>The US team, well they are strange, because they speak up only when they have prepared an exit plan - it's almost as if they have some sort of secret evil plan<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... perish the thought<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>In summary, everyone should be English.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speaking as someone who works with teams in England , India , Poland , Switzerland , Germany and the US - I can tell you that 'speaking up ' is definitely a trait stronger in England than anywhere else.People in the England do it too much , India not enough , the Polish are about half way ( they speak up , but about weird things ) .
The Swiss are way more cynical than I thought , so they speak up like the British do - in a mildly sarcastic way ( which never helps ) .The US team , well they are strange , because they speak up only when they have prepared an exit plan - it 's almost as if they have some sort of secret evil plan ... perish the thought ; ) In summary , everyone should be English .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speaking as someone who works with teams in England, India, Poland, Switzerland, Germany and the US - I can tell you that 'speaking up' is definitely a trait stronger in England than anywhere else.People in the England do it too much, India not enough, the Polish are about half way (they speak up, but about weird things).
The Swiss are way more cynical than I thought, so they speak up like the British do - in a mildly sarcastic way (which never helps).The US team, well they are strange, because they speak up only when they have prepared an exit plan - it's almost as if they have some sort of secret evil plan ... perish the thought ;)In summary, everyone should be English.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454032</id>
	<title>Numbers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>At the end of 2009 IBM employed 399,409 employees worldwide.  <br>
<br>
IBM U.S. labor force numbers.<br>
<br>
2009: 105,000<br>
2008: 115,000<br>
2007: 121,000<br>
2006: 127,000<br>
2005: 133,789<br>
<br>
Where IBM hired in 2009:<br>
<br>
Asia/Pacific: 13,376<br>
CEEMEA: 3,988<br>
Europe: 2,923<br>
India: 18,873<br>
Japan: 868<br>
Latin America: 7,112<br>
USA: 3,514<br>
Canada: 820<br>
<br>
Here are the detailed numbers from the IBM March 1st, 2010 layoffs (2,901 cut so far)<br>
<br>STG Technology Development:	24
<br>STG Sales Support:	80
<br>CIO Application and infrastructure:	 160
<br>Software Group WPLC:	50
<br>Software Group Information management:	99
<br>GBS Global Account:	98
<br>GTS Security Systems:	41
<br>ITD Transition, Quality &amp; Service Mgmt:	276
<br>ITD Application Hosting and Database:	158
<br>ITD Service Management Delivery:	66
<br>ITD Storage Management:	178
<br>ITD Distributed Server Management:	318
<br>ITD SSO (IDMM):	120
<br>GTS North America East IMT Region Maintenance &amp; Technical Support:	66
<br>Sales and Distribution Headquarters:	73
<br>ITD Complex Engagement Services:	34
<br>Tivoli:	51
<br>SWG Application &amp; Integration Middleware:	119
<br>ITD Shared Services, Security &amp; Risk Management:	216
<br>Sales and Distribution Global Sales:	57
<br>Human Resources Global Administration:	124
<br>STG Global markets:	12
<br>CIO Client Value Tranformation:	76
<br>Corporate Marketing &amp; Communications:	48
<br>CIO Operations &amp; Enterprise Portfolio Management:	8
<br>STG Software Development &amp; Lab services:	39
<br>GBS Financial Services:	24
<br>GBS AIS:	84
<br>GBS ASAA:	202
<br>Total cut so far:	2901
<br>

<br>Source: <a href="http://www.endicottalliance.org/" title="endicottalliance.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.endicottalliance.org/</a> [endicottalliance.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>At the end of 2009 IBM employed 399,409 employees worldwide .
IBM U.S. labor force numbers .
2009 : 105,000 2008 : 115,000 2007 : 121,000 2006 : 127,000 2005 : 133,789 Where IBM hired in 2009 : Asia/Pacific : 13,376 CEEMEA : 3,988 Europe : 2,923 India : 18,873 Japan : 868 Latin America : 7,112 USA : 3,514 Canada : 820 Here are the detailed numbers from the IBM March 1st , 2010 layoffs ( 2,901 cut so far ) STG Technology Development : 24 STG Sales Support : 80 CIO Application and infrastructure : 160 Software Group WPLC : 50 Software Group Information management : 99 GBS Global Account : 98 GTS Security Systems : 41 ITD Transition , Quality &amp; Service Mgmt : 276 ITD Application Hosting and Database : 158 ITD Service Management Delivery : 66 ITD Storage Management : 178 ITD Distributed Server Management : 318 ITD SSO ( IDMM ) : 120 GTS North America East IMT Region Maintenance &amp; Technical Support : 66 Sales and Distribution Headquarters : 73 ITD Complex Engagement Services : 34 Tivoli : 51 SWG Application &amp; Integration Middleware : 119 ITD Shared Services , Security &amp; Risk Management : 216 Sales and Distribution Global Sales : 57 Human Resources Global Administration : 124 STG Global markets : 12 CIO Client Value Tranformation : 76 Corporate Marketing &amp; Communications : 48 CIO Operations &amp; Enterprise Portfolio Management : 8 STG Software Development &amp; Lab services : 39 GBS Financial Services : 24 GBS AIS : 84 GBS ASAA : 202 Total cut so far : 2901 Source : http : //www.endicottalliance.org/ [ endicottalliance.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the end of 2009 IBM employed 399,409 employees worldwide.
IBM U.S. labor force numbers.
2009: 105,000
2008: 115,000
2007: 121,000
2006: 127,000
2005: 133,789

Where IBM hired in 2009:

Asia/Pacific: 13,376
CEEMEA: 3,988
Europe: 2,923
India: 18,873
Japan: 868
Latin America: 7,112
USA: 3,514
Canada: 820

Here are the detailed numbers from the IBM March 1st, 2010 layoffs (2,901 cut so far)
STG Technology Development:	24
STG Sales Support:	80
CIO Application and infrastructure:	 160
Software Group WPLC:	50
Software Group Information management:	99
GBS Global Account:	98
GTS Security Systems:	41
ITD Transition, Quality &amp; Service Mgmt:	276
ITD Application Hosting and Database:	158
ITD Service Management Delivery:	66
ITD Storage Management:	178
ITD Distributed Server Management:	318
ITD SSO (IDMM):	120
GTS North America East IMT Region Maintenance &amp; Technical Support:	66
Sales and Distribution Headquarters:	73
ITD Complex Engagement Services:	34
Tivoli:	51
SWG Application &amp; Integration Middleware:	119
ITD Shared Services, Security &amp; Risk Management:	216
Sales and Distribution Global Sales:	57
Human Resources Global Administration:	124
STG Global markets:	12
CIO Client Value Tranformation:	76
Corporate Marketing &amp; Communications:	48
CIO Operations &amp; Enterprise Portfolio Management:	8
STG Software Development &amp; Lab services:	39
GBS Financial Services:	24
GBS AIS:	84
GBS ASAA:	202
Total cut so far:	2901


Source: http://www.endicottalliance.org/ [endicottalliance.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31457282</id>
	<title>Re:Numbers</title>
	<author>FriendlyPrimate</author>
	<datestamp>1268391300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The rumors flying around (which have been the only way to know about upcoming RA's, and which have been quite accurate) are that an executive decision has been made to reduce the U.S. workforce to 70,000.
<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, this number also includes new low-paying jobs, like the call-center jobs in Dubuque, Iowa.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The rumors flying around ( which have been the only way to know about upcoming RA 's , and which have been quite accurate ) are that an executive decision has been made to reduce the U.S. workforce to 70,000 .
Unfortunately , this number also includes new low-paying jobs , like the call-center jobs in Dubuque , Iowa .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The rumors flying around (which have been the only way to know about upcoming RA's, and which have been quite accurate) are that an executive decision has been made to reduce the U.S. workforce to 70,000.
Unfortunately, this number also includes new low-paying jobs, like the call-center jobs in Dubuque, Iowa.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454032</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31479504</id>
	<title>Re:Why is IBM doing this culling?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268649000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HI - did you ever see that "Road to xxx" film - there is a scene where Bob Hope says - there's Mr IBM - I'm a Business Machine"<br>--- nothing changes and yes - they and a load of other companies in the US and UK have discovered that there are loads of cheap resource in India and China to a lesser extent<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...... have you seen IBM's Indian headcount figures ? compare to US<nobr> <wbr></nobr>........</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HI - did you ever see that " Road to xxx " film - there is a scene where Bob Hope says - there 's Mr IBM - I 'm a Business Machine " --- nothing changes and yes - they and a load of other companies in the US and UK have discovered that there are loads of cheap resource in India and China to a lesser extent ...... have you seen IBM 's Indian headcount figures ?
compare to US ....... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HI - did you ever see that "Road to xxx" film - there is a scene where Bob Hope says - there's Mr IBM - I'm a Business Machine"--- nothing changes and yes - they and a load of other companies in the US and UK have discovered that there are loads of cheap resource in India and China to a lesser extent ...... have you seen IBM's Indian headcount figures ?
compare to US ........</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453566</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453826</id>
	<title>Re:Regulate</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1268419860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What was the last law the government passed that was in the interest of the social economics of the population and not to the benefit of corporations?</p><p>I think you are mistaking who is working for who. Presidents and Senators don't make money helping you or me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What was the last law the government passed that was in the interest of the social economics of the population and not to the benefit of corporations ? I think you are mistaking who is working for who .
Presidents and Senators do n't make money helping you or me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What was the last law the government passed that was in the interest of the social economics of the population and not to the benefit of corporations?I think you are mistaking who is working for who.
Presidents and Senators don't make money helping you or me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454276</id>
	<title>Re:let me see</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1268422020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an American, I apologize on behalf of those of us (who are a minority, I believe) who don't agree with the way our government doesn't regulate businesses, and has allowed this place to turn into a fascist/corporatist state.  Personally, I'd like to see our country operate a lot more like Switzerland: keep to ourselves, don't get involved in foreign conflicts, and make quality products and sell them.</p><p>I'm sure a lot of Americans would like to do something about it, but with a two-party political system where both parties are in the pockets of the corporations, and most of the populace too stupid to care or vote for 3rd parties, there's not much we can do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an American , I apologize on behalf of those of us ( who are a minority , I believe ) who do n't agree with the way our government does n't regulate businesses , and has allowed this place to turn into a fascist/corporatist state .
Personally , I 'd like to see our country operate a lot more like Switzerland : keep to ourselves , do n't get involved in foreign conflicts , and make quality products and sell them.I 'm sure a lot of Americans would like to do something about it , but with a two-party political system where both parties are in the pockets of the corporations , and most of the populace too stupid to care or vote for 3rd parties , there 's not much we can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an American, I apologize on behalf of those of us (who are a minority, I believe) who don't agree with the way our government doesn't regulate businesses, and has allowed this place to turn into a fascist/corporatist state.
Personally, I'd like to see our country operate a lot more like Switzerland: keep to ourselves, don't get involved in foreign conflicts, and make quality products and sell them.I'm sure a lot of Americans would like to do something about it, but with a two-party political system where both parties are in the pockets of the corporations, and most of the populace too stupid to care or vote for 3rd parties, there's not much we can do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454614</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indians working in India are uniformly terrible. Thats why IBM is hiring more Indians in India. Racist much?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indians working in India are uniformly terrible .
Thats why IBM is hiring more Indians in India .
Racist much ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indians working in India are uniformly terrible.
Thats why IBM is hiring more Indians in India.
Racist much?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454272</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>Dragonslicer</author>
	<datestamp>1268422020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The best interests of a nation and not annoying the government are not necessarily the same thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The best interests of a nation and not annoying the government are not necessarily the same thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best interests of a nation and not annoying the government are not necessarily the same thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453892</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Third Position</author>
	<datestamp>1268420160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Labor at IBM is unionized?</p> </div><p>No, actually it isn't. The union mentioned in the article has been trying for the last 10 years or so, mostly unsuccessfully.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Labor at IBM is unionized ?
No , actually it is n't .
The union mentioned in the article has been trying for the last 10 years or so , mostly unsuccessfully .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Labor at IBM is unionized?
No, actually it isn't.
The union mentioned in the article has been trying for the last 10 years or so, mostly unsuccessfully.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454366</id>
	<title>No one cares until it's too late</title>
	<author>ErichTheRed</author>
	<datestamp>1268422440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honestly, I have mixed feelings about this. IBM is a huge tech giant, similar to Oracle or maybe even HP. They produce rock-stable, less-than-exciting products that run the back end of most businesses. Microsott is even heading this direction. The problem is, when you get that huge and have shareholders/executives constantly demanding lower costs, eventually the offshoring lever gets pulled. It's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process, but do you really think they can be stopped?</p><p>I'd call myself left of center, and would support measures to at least discourage companies from moving jobs offshore. This wouldn't be appropriate in most cases, but when you have 300 million people competing against a huge labor pool that costs 90\% less, the stabilizers need to be kicked on. However, I know it's not realistic. Why? Most IT people I know are incredibly conservative/Libertarian/Ayn Rand followers. Mention a union, professional organization, or other stabilizer to these people, and most go off into a Fox News-style tirade about socialism or how unions are evil and corrupt.</p><p>If our own profession doesn't stand up for itself, we can't expect anyone else to. (My opinion: People need to get out of this "rugged individualism/entrepreneurial" fantasy that they seem to have. You're not a superstar, you're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire, and you're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate. It just isn't a realistic dream to base your life around. But that's my opinion.)</p><p>Another problem is this - the computing and IT workforce has still not decided on a direction. Do we want to be a profession? If so, then we need to start standardizing education of new members, and do a better job at defining fundamentals of development, systems engineering, etc. Do we want to be a skilled trade? If so, then we need to set up an apprenticeship-style training system that gives new recruits a decent broad background, consider a union ^Ubargaining unit ^U^Upolitical influence committee and think about a real career ladder that doesn't end at age 40. Or, do we want to be a branch of traditional engineering? That's almost like a profession - and I'm all for the idea of people being responsible for their work like PEs are.</p><p>I would definintely go for the traditional-engineering or profession route, but there's another problem. Skill sets in IT vary wildly. I've worked with absolute geniuses and...umm...less-than-geniuses. It drives me nuts when less-than-geniuses get hired as contractors for triple my salary and I wind up having to tell them how to solve something. Since there's no set way to validate skills, people can fake their way through interviews and wind up on staff causing havoc while they learn. Same goes in reverse...someone who's really smart but bad at selling themselves can wind up not getting a job, or a much lower salary than they're entitled to.</p><p>Anyway, back to the offshoring problem. Everyone's still in love with cheap goods and cheap labor, and hasn't learned much from the recent economic downturn. People are still spending way too much, even though the contraction in the credit markets has helped a lot. So we have a choice - either cut back the spending so we don't have to demand raises of our already-high salaries, or find some way to differentiate ourselves. That's never going to happen - too many IT problems get buried by lower-level managers before the decision makers ever see them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , I have mixed feelings about this .
IBM is a huge tech giant , similar to Oracle or maybe even HP .
They produce rock-stable , less-than-exciting products that run the back end of most businesses .
Microsott is even heading this direction .
The problem is , when you get that huge and have shareholders/executives constantly demanding lower costs , eventually the offshoring lever gets pulled .
It 's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process , but do you really think they can be stopped ? I 'd call myself left of center , and would support measures to at least discourage companies from moving jobs offshore .
This would n't be appropriate in most cases , but when you have 300 million people competing against a huge labor pool that costs 90 \ % less , the stabilizers need to be kicked on .
However , I know it 's not realistic .
Why ? Most IT people I know are incredibly conservative/Libertarian/Ayn Rand followers .
Mention a union , professional organization , or other stabilizer to these people , and most go off into a Fox News-style tirade about socialism or how unions are evil and corrupt.If our own profession does n't stand up for itself , we ca n't expect anyone else to .
( My opinion : People need to get out of this " rugged individualism/entrepreneurial " fantasy that they seem to have .
You 're not a superstar , you 're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire , and you 're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate .
It just is n't a realistic dream to base your life around .
But that 's my opinion .
) Another problem is this - the computing and IT workforce has still not decided on a direction .
Do we want to be a profession ?
If so , then we need to start standardizing education of new members , and do a better job at defining fundamentals of development , systems engineering , etc .
Do we want to be a skilled trade ?
If so , then we need to set up an apprenticeship-style training system that gives new recruits a decent broad background , consider a union ^ Ubargaining unit ^ U ^ Upolitical influence committee and think about a real career ladder that does n't end at age 40 .
Or , do we want to be a branch of traditional engineering ?
That 's almost like a profession - and I 'm all for the idea of people being responsible for their work like PEs are.I would definintely go for the traditional-engineering or profession route , but there 's another problem .
Skill sets in IT vary wildly .
I 've worked with absolute geniuses and...umm...less-than-geniuses .
It drives me nuts when less-than-geniuses get hired as contractors for triple my salary and I wind up having to tell them how to solve something .
Since there 's no set way to validate skills , people can fake their way through interviews and wind up on staff causing havoc while they learn .
Same goes in reverse...someone who 's really smart but bad at selling themselves can wind up not getting a job , or a much lower salary than they 're entitled to.Anyway , back to the offshoring problem .
Everyone 's still in love with cheap goods and cheap labor , and has n't learned much from the recent economic downturn .
People are still spending way too much , even though the contraction in the credit markets has helped a lot .
So we have a choice - either cut back the spending so we do n't have to demand raises of our already-high salaries , or find some way to differentiate ourselves .
That 's never going to happen - too many IT problems get buried by lower-level managers before the decision makers ever see them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, I have mixed feelings about this.
IBM is a huge tech giant, similar to Oracle or maybe even HP.
They produce rock-stable, less-than-exciting products that run the back end of most businesses.
Microsott is even heading this direction.
The problem is, when you get that huge and have shareholders/executives constantly demanding lower costs, eventually the offshoring lever gets pulled.
It's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process, but do you really think they can be stopped?I'd call myself left of center, and would support measures to at least discourage companies from moving jobs offshore.
This wouldn't be appropriate in most cases, but when you have 300 million people competing against a huge labor pool that costs 90\% less, the stabilizers need to be kicked on.
However, I know it's not realistic.
Why? Most IT people I know are incredibly conservative/Libertarian/Ayn Rand followers.
Mention a union, professional organization, or other stabilizer to these people, and most go off into a Fox News-style tirade about socialism or how unions are evil and corrupt.If our own profession doesn't stand up for itself, we can't expect anyone else to.
(My opinion: People need to get out of this "rugged individualism/entrepreneurial" fantasy that they seem to have.
You're not a superstar, you're not going to start a business and become an overnight billionaire, and you're never going to be one of the outsized celebrities or business tycoons that you celebrate.
It just isn't a realistic dream to base your life around.
But that's my opinion.
)Another problem is this - the computing and IT workforce has still not decided on a direction.
Do we want to be a profession?
If so, then we need to start standardizing education of new members, and do a better job at defining fundamentals of development, systems engineering, etc.
Do we want to be a skilled trade?
If so, then we need to set up an apprenticeship-style training system that gives new recruits a decent broad background, consider a union ^Ubargaining unit ^U^Upolitical influence committee and think about a real career ladder that doesn't end at age 40.
Or, do we want to be a branch of traditional engineering?
That's almost like a profession - and I'm all for the idea of people being responsible for their work like PEs are.I would definintely go for the traditional-engineering or profession route, but there's another problem.
Skill sets in IT vary wildly.
I've worked with absolute geniuses and...umm...less-than-geniuses.
It drives me nuts when less-than-geniuses get hired as contractors for triple my salary and I wind up having to tell them how to solve something.
Since there's no set way to validate skills, people can fake their way through interviews and wind up on staff causing havoc while they learn.
Same goes in reverse...someone who's really smart but bad at selling themselves can wind up not getting a job, or a much lower salary than they're entitled to.Anyway, back to the offshoring problem.
Everyone's still in love with cheap goods and cheap labor, and hasn't learned much from the recent economic downturn.
People are still spending way too much, even though the contraction in the credit markets has helped a lot.
So we have a choice - either cut back the spending so we don't have to demand raises of our already-high salaries, or find some way to differentiate ourselves.
That's never going to happen - too many IT problems get buried by lower-level managers before the decision makers ever see them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453662</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1268419140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"And these unions can't see any connection between unionized labor in the US, and IBM's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor?"</p><p>I don't know what connection the unions see, but I don't see one.</p><p>Do you really believe that IBM's labor savings are limited to the difference between union and non-union jobs in the US?</p><p>Is off-shoring limited to US companies who have unionized workers?</p><p>IBM, like many other companies in the US today, wants the cheapest labor they can get. It's not about unions, it's about greed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" And these unions ca n't see any connection between unionized labor in the US , and IBM 's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor ?
" I do n't know what connection the unions see , but I do n't see one.Do you really believe that IBM 's labor savings are limited to the difference between union and non-union jobs in the US ? Is off-shoring limited to US companies who have unionized workers ? IBM , like many other companies in the US today , wants the cheapest labor they can get .
It 's not about unions , it 's about greed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"And these unions can't see any connection between unionized labor in the US, and IBM's preference to offshore labor to places without unionized labor?
"I don't know what connection the unions see, but I don't see one.Do you really believe that IBM's labor savings are limited to the difference between union and non-union jobs in the US?Is off-shoring limited to US companies who have unionized workers?IBM, like many other companies in the US today, wants the cheapest labor they can get.
It's not about unions, it's about greed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454442</id>
	<title>Hobson's Choice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268422800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So America must become Third World, or lose all our jobs to the Third World and become itself Third World anyway?  Whatever have we done to deserve such an evil ruling elite?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So America must become Third World , or lose all our jobs to the Third World and become itself Third World anyway ?
Whatever have we done to deserve such an evil ruling elite ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So America must become Third World, or lose all our jobs to the Third World and become itself Third World anyway?
Whatever have we done to deserve such an evil ruling elite?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455522</id>
	<title>The US Government has the data...</title>
	<author>turb</author>
	<datestamp>1268427360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this data is so critical, it's not like the US government doesn't have it. How do you know this?</p><p>You know those things called W-2 tax forms? Remember<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the US government gets a copy of those which has the employer ID on it. The data is there.</p><p>So if the US government would like a nice break down of all employers and employees<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. there ya go. Crunch away on the IRS data base.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this data is so critical , it 's not like the US government does n't have it .
How do you know this ? You know those things called W-2 tax forms ?
Remember ... the US government gets a copy of those which has the employer ID on it .
The data is there.So if the US government would like a nice break down of all employers and employees .. there ya go .
Crunch away on the IRS data base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this data is so critical, it's not like the US government doesn't have it.
How do you know this?You know those things called W-2 tax forms?
Remember ... the US government gets a copy of those which has the employer ID on it.
The data is there.So if the US government would like a nice break down of all employers and employees .. there ya go.
Crunch away on the IRS data base.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454554</id>
	<title>Atlanta layoffs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buddy of mine who's a 16-year vet of the Atlanta IBM office just got his layoff notice.  Last day is March 31.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buddy of mine who 's a 16-year vet of the Atlanta IBM office just got his layoff notice .
Last day is March 31 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buddy of mine who's a 16-year vet of the Atlanta IBM office just got his layoff notice.
Last day is March 31.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31462486</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268471880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They have no initiative whatsoever [...]<br>But for whatever reason, Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers.</p></div><p>Posting as anonymous IBMer...<br>Experience has taught me to handle Indians as human computer. Make sure the instructions don't have any syntax or logic errors. If there is, the execution will halt to error message (=email sent, eding with: "please advice" or "please do the needful") and nothing happends until you have fixed the error.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They have no initiative whatsoever [ ... ] But for whatever reason , Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers.Posting as anonymous IBMer...Experience has taught me to handle Indians as human computer .
Make sure the instructions do n't have any syntax or logic errors .
If there is , the execution will halt to error message ( = email sent , eding with : " please advice " or " please do the needful " ) and nothing happends until you have fixed the error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have no initiative whatsoever [...]But for whatever reason, Indians in India are just extremely poor replacements for western workers.Posting as anonymous IBMer...Experience has taught me to handle Indians as human computer.
Make sure the instructions don't have any syntax or logic errors.
If there is, the execution will halt to error message (=email sent, eding with: "please advice" or "please do the needful") and nothing happends until you have fixed the error.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454018</id>
	<title>IRS Data?</title>
	<author>drinkmorejava</author>
	<datestamp>1268420700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't we have an organization in the US called the Internal Revenue Service that receives tax forms from IBM for every employee and contractor? Sounds like a pretty good data source to me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't we have an organization in the US called the Internal Revenue Service that receives tax forms from IBM for every employee and contractor ?
Sounds like a pretty good data source to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't we have an organization in the US called the Internal Revenue Service that receives tax forms from IBM for every employee and contractor?
Sounds like a pretty good data source to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454564</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's purely down to investment to profits.  As long as the US government allows the visa for work and the off-shoring of jobs, this will continue.  Think back to Clinton's NAFTA, etc.  We've been steadily losing jobs since the 90's.  They've opened a can of worms and have yet to figure out how to manage.</p><p>The rest of the world sees us as isolationist if you take the jobs and go pure American only.  It's a two-edged sword.  Can't have it both ways.  American workers will have to compete but ultimately the cry to standardize the world on one monetary system, same pay rate (try to figure that out with so many varying economies and cheap labor rules), etc.</p><p>It will get much worse before it gets any better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's purely down to investment to profits .
As long as the US government allows the visa for work and the off-shoring of jobs , this will continue .
Think back to Clinton 's NAFTA , etc .
We 've been steadily losing jobs since the 90 's .
They 've opened a can of worms and have yet to figure out how to manage.The rest of the world sees us as isolationist if you take the jobs and go pure American only .
It 's a two-edged sword .
Ca n't have it both ways .
American workers will have to compete but ultimately the cry to standardize the world on one monetary system , same pay rate ( try to figure that out with so many varying economies and cheap labor rules ) , etc.It will get much worse before it gets any better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's purely down to investment to profits.
As long as the US government allows the visa for work and the off-shoring of jobs, this will continue.
Think back to Clinton's NAFTA, etc.
We've been steadily losing jobs since the 90's.
They've opened a can of worms and have yet to figure out how to manage.The rest of the world sees us as isolationist if you take the jobs and go pure American only.
It's a two-edged sword.
Can't have it both ways.
American workers will have to compete but ultimately the cry to standardize the world on one monetary system, same pay rate (try to figure that out with so many varying economies and cheap labor rules), etc.It will get much worse before it gets any better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455406</id>
	<title>Re:No one cares until it's too late</title>
	<author>TheSync</author>
	<datestamp>1268426820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process, but do you really think they can be stopped?</i></p><p>The big differences in unemployment around the world have far more to do with local labor regulation than global competition.   Kids coming out of college in France can't get jobs, but it has nothing to do with offshoring.</p><p>Global free trade in services allows American workers to take on more productive roles, which is good for the economy and leads to further job growth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process , but do you really think they can be stopped ? The big differences in unemployment around the world have far more to do with local labor regulation than global competition .
Kids coming out of college in France ca n't get jobs , but it has nothing to do with offshoring.Global free trade in services allows American workers to take on more productive roles , which is good for the economy and leads to further job growth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's awful that these large companies are contributing to unemployment in the process, but do you really think they can be stopped?The big differences in unemployment around the world have far more to do with local labor regulation than global competition.
Kids coming out of college in France can't get jobs, but it has nothing to do with offshoring.Global free trade in services allows American workers to take on more productive roles, which is good for the economy and leads to further job growth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454366</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454740</id>
	<title>Re:let me see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268424120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monsanto are criminals pure and simple. Their seeds pollute other farmer's fields and kill off other plants. Cargill is no better. Turkey should ban Monsanto and ride them out of the country on a rail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monsanto are criminals pure and simple .
Their seeds pollute other farmer 's fields and kill off other plants .
Cargill is no better .
Turkey should ban Monsanto and ride them out of the country on a rail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monsanto are criminals pure and simple.
Their seeds pollute other farmer's fields and kill off other plants.
Cargill is no better.
Turkey should ban Monsanto and ride them out of the country on a rail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453634</id>
	<title>The "I" stands for...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did anyone expect anything else from "International Business Machines"? They are not "American Business Machines".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did anyone expect anything else from " International Business Machines " ?
They are not " American Business Machines " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did anyone expect anything else from "International Business Machines"?
They are not "American Business Machines".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453874</id>
	<title>Re:Wait a minute...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Damn straight!  And those banking regulations about having enough capital to back liabilities had their place back in the days after the depression, but they certainly aren't needed in these modern times of economic strength!  They just hold back progress.  I've known more banks delivering sub-par performance in more regulated economies than banking clients being helped by those regulations.  Well, until the last couple of years.  But those were unusual and unpredictable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn straight !
And those banking regulations about having enough capital to back liabilities had their place back in the days after the depression , but they certainly are n't needed in these modern times of economic strength !
They just hold back progress .
I 've known more banks delivering sub-par performance in more regulated economies than banking clients being helped by those regulations .
Well , until the last couple of years .
But those were unusual and unpredictable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn straight!
And those banking regulations about having enough capital to back liabilities had their place back in the days after the depression, but they certainly aren't needed in these modern times of economic strength!
They just hold back progress.
I've known more banks delivering sub-par performance in more regulated economies than banking clients being helped by those regulations.
Well, until the last couple of years.
But those were unusual and unpredictable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453860</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1268420040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But why should IBM be given special favors, like stimulus money, from the US taxpayers, when IBM is not really a US company? Less than 30\% of IBM employees were born in the USA.</p><p>How is that US-tax-payer-provided stimulus money benefiting the US tax payers, if all that money is going offhsore?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But why should IBM be given special favors , like stimulus money , from the US taxpayers , when IBM is not really a US company ?
Less than 30 \ % of IBM employees were born in the USA.How is that US-tax-payer-provided stimulus money benefiting the US tax payers , if all that money is going offhsore ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But why should IBM be given special favors, like stimulus money, from the US taxpayers, when IBM is not really a US company?
Less than 30\% of IBM employees were born in the USA.How is that US-tax-payer-provided stimulus money benefiting the US tax payers, if all that money is going offhsore?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456448</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>scamper\_22</author>
	<datestamp>1268388060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll bite<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>I agree with what your perception, but the reasons are a bit obscure.</p><p>1.  Many Asians are coming from poverty or much poorer positions.  What this means is you don't say anything to screw up your job.  You're easily replaceable by any of the other billion people.</p><p>2.  Since IT is viewed as a way out of poverty, lots of people pursue it.  In the Western World, who went into engineering or computer science? Probably your people with a passion for the work.  In India, you have near a 1 billion people just looking around for a good job.  They're going into it for a job.  It's got little to do with being Indian... and more to do with the sheer numbers of Indians going into the field.  The top Indians are just as good as the top western people.  The problem is the top indians are hard to see in an ocean of indians just trying to work.  Not to mention, historically the top indians left to go to better parts of the world.  This is changing now.</p><p>3.  Management loves Indian workers.  I've been in the field long enough to know that management really doesn't care about quality or good design or new ideas.  Good managers who actually lead the company to better and more innovative products and services are few and far between.  Most are just there playing the work place political game... the same as most workers are just there for the job.  So yes, it is better to have an Indian worker who might be an idiot, but does all the things right.  He never says no.  He'll forgo quality in favor of bug counts and making the bean counters happy.</p><p>Away you go, companies love outsourcing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bite : ) I agree with what your perception , but the reasons are a bit obscure.1 .
Many Asians are coming from poverty or much poorer positions .
What this means is you do n't say anything to screw up your job .
You 're easily replaceable by any of the other billion people.2 .
Since IT is viewed as a way out of poverty , lots of people pursue it .
In the Western World , who went into engineering or computer science ?
Probably your people with a passion for the work .
In India , you have near a 1 billion people just looking around for a good job .
They 're going into it for a job .
It 's got little to do with being Indian... and more to do with the sheer numbers of Indians going into the field .
The top Indians are just as good as the top western people .
The problem is the top indians are hard to see in an ocean of indians just trying to work .
Not to mention , historically the top indians left to go to better parts of the world .
This is changing now.3 .
Management loves Indian workers .
I 've been in the field long enough to know that management really does n't care about quality or good design or new ideas .
Good managers who actually lead the company to better and more innovative products and services are few and far between .
Most are just there playing the work place political game... the same as most workers are just there for the job .
So yes , it is better to have an Indian worker who might be an idiot , but does all the things right .
He never says no .
He 'll forgo quality in favor of bug counts and making the bean counters happy.Away you go , companies love outsourcing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bite :)I agree with what your perception, but the reasons are a bit obscure.1.
Many Asians are coming from poverty or much poorer positions.
What this means is you don't say anything to screw up your job.
You're easily replaceable by any of the other billion people.2.
Since IT is viewed as a way out of poverty, lots of people pursue it.
In the Western World, who went into engineering or computer science?
Probably your people with a passion for the work.
In India, you have near a 1 billion people just looking around for a good job.
They're going into it for a job.
It's got little to do with being Indian... and more to do with the sheer numbers of Indians going into the field.
The top Indians are just as good as the top western people.
The problem is the top indians are hard to see in an ocean of indians just trying to work.
Not to mention, historically the top indians left to go to better parts of the world.
This is changing now.3.
Management loves Indian workers.
I've been in the field long enough to know that management really doesn't care about quality or good design or new ideas.
Good managers who actually lead the company to better and more innovative products and services are few and far between.
Most are just there playing the work place political game... the same as most workers are just there for the job.
So yes, it is better to have an Indian worker who might be an idiot, but does all the things right.
He never says no.
He'll forgo quality in favor of bug counts and making the bean counters happy.Away you go, companies love outsourcing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454572</id>
	<title>Get it from the IRS?</title>
	<author>ChronosWS</author>
	<datestamp>1268423400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>All those employees who file their taxes with IBM's EID, compare to historical growth rates and IBMs hiring trends versus the current state of the economy, and I bet you could estimate it well enough for public policy purposes.  Anyone want to start a data-mining operation contracting to the government to find this information for them?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>All those employees who file their taxes with IBM 's EID , compare to historical growth rates and IBMs hiring trends versus the current state of the economy , and I bet you could estimate it well enough for public policy purposes .
Anyone want to start a data-mining operation contracting to the government to find this information for them ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All those employees who file their taxes with IBM's EID, compare to historical growth rates and IBMs hiring trends versus the current state of the economy, and I bet you could estimate it well enough for public policy purposes.
Anyone want to start a data-mining operation contracting to the government to find this information for them?
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453898</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>mrclisdue</author>
	<datestamp>1268420160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not so sure the op is "flaming" as much as expressing an impulsive response, with *attitude*.</p><p>It's neither well nor tactfully stated, but I can certainly empathize because it's one of the first thoughts that popped into my head.</p><p>And as a Canadian with many, many days spent in the US, I can unequivocally say that I *love* the USA (for whatever that means, and whatever it's worth.)</p><p>cheers,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not so sure the op is " flaming " as much as expressing an impulsive response , with * attitude * .It 's neither well nor tactfully stated , but I can certainly empathize because it 's one of the first thoughts that popped into my head.And as a Canadian with many , many days spent in the US , I can unequivocally say that I * love * the USA ( for whatever that means , and whatever it 's worth .
) cheers,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not so sure the op is "flaming" as much as expressing an impulsive response, with *attitude*.It's neither well nor tactfully stated, but I can certainly empathize because it's one of the first thoughts that popped into my head.And as a Canadian with many, many days spent in the US, I can unequivocally say that I *love* the USA (for whatever that means, and whatever it's worth.
)cheers,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453884</id>
	<title>Good Thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good thing they go by their acronym anyways.  Now they can be "Indian Business Machine" and don't have to spend a dime updating their logo!  How convenient.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good thing they go by their acronym anyways .
Now they can be " Indian Business Machine " and do n't have to spend a dime updating their logo !
How convenient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good thing they go by their acronym anyways.
Now they can be "Indian Business Machine" and don't have to spend a dime updating their logo!
How convenient.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31455124</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268425680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because everyone knows how shitty the quality of work performed by Indians is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because everyone knows how shitty the quality of work performed by Indians is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because everyone knows how shitty the quality of work performed by Indians is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453748</id>
	<title>There are no American corporations.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are only <i>money</i> corporations. Those who run multinational organizations care nothing about whether their money comes from China, India, the USA or Mars. They have no loyalty to the USA or its people, and as the government and people of India and China will soon discover, they have no loyalty to them either. The wealthy can live anywhere. It's all one world to them. Only the sets and the local operating environments change.</p><p>The poor of the world have no enemy but the wealthy. Loyalty to "country" or political affiliation is just a con for the rubes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are only money corporations .
Those who run multinational organizations care nothing about whether their money comes from China , India , the USA or Mars .
They have no loyalty to the USA or its people , and as the government and people of India and China will soon discover , they have no loyalty to them either .
The wealthy can live anywhere .
It 's all one world to them .
Only the sets and the local operating environments change.The poor of the world have no enemy but the wealthy .
Loyalty to " country " or political affiliation is just a con for the rubes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are only money corporations.
Those who run multinational organizations care nothing about whether their money comes from China, India, the USA or Mars.
They have no loyalty to the USA or its people, and as the government and people of India and China will soon discover, they have no loyalty to them either.
The wealthy can live anywhere.
It's all one world to them.
Only the sets and the local operating environments change.The poor of the world have no enemy but the wealthy.
Loyalty to "country" or political affiliation is just a con for the rubes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454548</id>
	<title>Re:Unions</title>
	<author>thatisscary</author>
	<datestamp>1268423280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>And you forgot how racist the Unions were. That the AFL was only integrated in 1935, by federal decree  -- as a sop by Roosevelt, to help win over the previously Republican Blacks (remember Lincoln was a Republican and the south was staunchly Democrat). and all the "official" Railroad unions were closed to blacks -- except the porter's union which was all black.

And no, I don't remember how badly most workers were treated by their employers, since my grandfather was kept out of the Shoemaker's union, and had to start his own shoemaking business.  Perhaps you can enlighten me with some concrete story of employer evil.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And you forgot how racist the Unions were .
That the AFL was only integrated in 1935 , by federal decree -- as a sop by Roosevelt , to help win over the previously Republican Blacks ( remember Lincoln was a Republican and the south was staunchly Democrat ) .
and all the " official " Railroad unions were closed to blacks -- except the porter 's union which was all black .
And no , I do n't remember how badly most workers were treated by their employers , since my grandfather was kept out of the Shoemaker 's union , and had to start his own shoemaking business .
Perhaps you can enlighten me with some concrete story of employer evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you forgot how racist the Unions were.
That the AFL was only integrated in 1935, by federal decree  -- as a sop by Roosevelt, to help win over the previously Republican Blacks (remember Lincoln was a Republican and the south was staunchly Democrat).
and all the "official" Railroad unions were closed to blacks -- except the porter's union which was all black.
And no, I don't remember how badly most workers were treated by their employers, since my grandfather was kept out of the Shoemaker's union, and had to start his own shoemaking business.
Perhaps you can enlighten me with some concrete story of employer evil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454042</id>
	<title>Re:Desired conclusions come first</title>
	<author>cartzworth</author>
	<datestamp>1268420760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would leave things up to investors to take care of getting full disclosure here; the information was out there and they chose to restrict it.  Could it be argued that it is material information that should be disclosed?  We already have laws about that...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would leave things up to investors to take care of getting full disclosure here ; the information was out there and they chose to restrict it .
Could it be argued that it is material information that should be disclosed ?
We already have laws about that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would leave things up to investors to take care of getting full disclosure here; the information was out there and they chose to restrict it.
Could it be argued that it is material information that should be disclosed?
We already have laws about that...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453334</id>
	<title>indeed, so what.</title>
	<author>Hansele</author>
	<datestamp>1268417700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same?  All releasing that info does is make them a lightning rod for criticism by politicians who need someone to bash, especially while the anti-business party is in power.

IBM needs to do whatever they have to to survive and compete.  If the US has made it difficult, the natural response is to shift resources elsewhere.  If the govt. seriously wanted to get businesses to come back here instead of fleeing, they'd get rid of corporate taxes.  All of a sudden the US would be a tax haven for business, jobs would come here as businesses relocated to the US, and we the consumers would not get stuck subsidizing corporate taxes.  After all, if the govt makes it more expensive to do business here, a corporation must either 1) move to a better tax climate, or 2) pass along the costs in their pricing.  All the additional jobs would raise lots of money in payroll taxes, social security and medicare would be better funded due to the increase in jobs, and the US would be much more competitive in the world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same ?
All releasing that info does is make them a lightning rod for criticism by politicians who need someone to bash , especially while the anti-business party is in power .
IBM needs to do whatever they have to to survive and compete .
If the US has made it difficult , the natural response is to shift resources elsewhere .
If the govt .
seriously wanted to get businesses to come back here instead of fleeing , they 'd get rid of corporate taxes .
All of a sudden the US would be a tax haven for business , jobs would come here as businesses relocated to the US , and we the consumers would not get stuck subsidizing corporate taxes .
After all , if the govt makes it more expensive to do business here , a corporation must either 1 ) move to a better tax climate , or 2 ) pass along the costs in their pricing .
All the additional jobs would raise lots of money in payroll taxes , social security and medicare would be better funded due to the increase in jobs , and the US would be much more competitive in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why should they release their headcount unless other companies do the same?
All releasing that info does is make them a lightning rod for criticism by politicians who need someone to bash, especially while the anti-business party is in power.
IBM needs to do whatever they have to to survive and compete.
If the US has made it difficult, the natural response is to shift resources elsewhere.
If the govt.
seriously wanted to get businesses to come back here instead of fleeing, they'd get rid of corporate taxes.
All of a sudden the US would be a tax haven for business, jobs would come here as businesses relocated to the US, and we the consumers would not get stuck subsidizing corporate taxes.
After all, if the govt makes it more expensive to do business here, a corporation must either 1) move to a better tax climate, or 2) pass along the costs in their pricing.
All the additional jobs would raise lots of money in payroll taxes, social security and medicare would be better funded due to the increase in jobs, and the US would be much more competitive in the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453434</id>
	<title>Desired conclusions come first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268418060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Generally, people do not arrive at conclusions through logical means. Certainty is a feeling, not the end result of logic. People start with the conclusions they want to arrive at, then work backwards to create a chain of rationalizations leading there.</p><p>But we did not elect our politicians to further India's interests. We did not elect them to further IBM's. We elected them to further our interests. That being said, it would be hypocritical to proclaim a love of free markets and libertarianism, while supporting protectionist policies and government intervention. Hypocritical in the extreme. However, this would not make them communists, it is much more accurate to call them hypocritical protectionists.</p><p>What would NOT be hypocritical would be to call for a citizen lead and enforced boycott of IBM. One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors. However, I think you will find that most libertarians want license to do whatever they please, rather than desiring true freedom, which takes work, and principles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Generally , people do not arrive at conclusions through logical means .
Certainty is a feeling , not the end result of logic .
People start with the conclusions they want to arrive at , then work backwards to create a chain of rationalizations leading there.But we did not elect our politicians to further India 's interests .
We did not elect them to further IBM 's .
We elected them to further our interests .
That being said , it would be hypocritical to proclaim a love of free markets and libertarianism , while supporting protectionist policies and government intervention .
Hypocritical in the extreme .
However , this would not make them communists , it is much more accurate to call them hypocritical protectionists.What would NOT be hypocritical would be to call for a citizen lead and enforced boycott of IBM .
One can be a libertarian and love the free market , but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors .
However , I think you will find that most libertarians want license to do whatever they please , rather than desiring true freedom , which takes work , and principles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generally, people do not arrive at conclusions through logical means.
Certainty is a feeling, not the end result of logic.
People start with the conclusions they want to arrive at, then work backwards to create a chain of rationalizations leading there.But we did not elect our politicians to further India's interests.
We did not elect them to further IBM's.
We elected them to further our interests.
That being said, it would be hypocritical to proclaim a love of free markets and libertarianism, while supporting protectionist policies and government intervention.
Hypocritical in the extreme.
However, this would not make them communists, it is much more accurate to call them hypocritical protectionists.What would NOT be hypocritical would be to call for a citizen lead and enforced boycott of IBM.
One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.
However, I think you will find that most libertarians want license to do whatever they please, rather than desiring true freedom, which takes work, and principles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456406</id>
	<title>Transparency desired</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268387940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would like there to be transparency w/a company receiving US taxpayer $ from the stimulus package.  Reference this news:  http://www.physorg.com/news182250392.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like there to be transparency w/a company receiving US taxpayer $ from the stimulus package .
Reference this news : http : //www.physorg.com/news182250392.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like there to be transparency w/a company receiving US taxpayer $ from the stimulus package.
Reference this news:  http://www.physorg.com/news182250392.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454646</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1268423760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indians with any talent get the hell out of India. You will never get good employees by outsourcing to India, because good employees won't accept a lifestyle of disease, pollution, and waist-high piles of garbage everywhere while earning $5/hour.</p><p>Want to hire talented Indians? Look for them in Europe or North America.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indians with any talent get the hell out of India .
You will never get good employees by outsourcing to India , because good employees wo n't accept a lifestyle of disease , pollution , and waist-high piles of garbage everywhere while earning $ 5/hour.Want to hire talented Indians ?
Look for them in Europe or North America .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indians with any talent get the hell out of India.
You will never get good employees by outsourcing to India, because good employees won't accept a lifestyle of disease, pollution, and waist-high piles of garbage everywhere while earning $5/hour.Want to hire talented Indians?
Look for them in Europe or North America.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454076</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm fighting the same issue also....no backbone, and they will yes you to death, even if they know what you are saying is wrong!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm fighting the same issue also....no backbone , and they will yes you to death , even if they know what you are saying is wrong !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm fighting the same issue also....no backbone, and they will yes you to death, even if they know what you are saying is wrong!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31459992</id>
	<title>I was an IBMer</title>
	<author>cj9er</author>
	<datestamp>1268403960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are without a doubt, the worst tech (if not the worst overall) company out there. Mis-managed and without a care for the US worker. I'm not surprised they would do this, I'm sure the pressure on them from outside influences, including the US gov't, was making their green-lined pockets "feel" lighter. I was outsourced to IBM so I didn't have much choice at the time. They offshored 85\% of my team to Argentina, and at that point I left. Never buy an IBM product if you can help it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are without a doubt , the worst tech ( if not the worst overall ) company out there .
Mis-managed and without a care for the US worker .
I 'm not surprised they would do this , I 'm sure the pressure on them from outside influences , including the US gov't , was making their green-lined pockets " feel " lighter .
I was outsourced to IBM so I did n't have much choice at the time .
They offshored 85 \ % of my team to Argentina , and at that point I left .
Never buy an IBM product if you can help it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are without a doubt, the worst tech (if not the worst overall) company out there.
Mis-managed and without a care for the US worker.
I'm not surprised they would do this, I'm sure the pressure on them from outside influences, including the US gov't, was making their green-lined pockets "feel" lighter.
I was outsourced to IBM so I didn't have much choice at the time.
They offshored 85\% of my team to Argentina, and at that point I left.
Never buy an IBM product if you can help it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454656</id>
	<title>Re:Desired conclusions come first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268423760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.</i></p><p>The cognitive dissonance in this statement is astonishing.  One can love the free market, but get angry when a free actor in that maket takes improves its efficiency?  This is absolutely hypocrisy of the worst sort.</p><p>In a true lasseiz faire capitalist society, you live by your skills and their relevance.  I look at the typical slashdotter and all I see are people who have obsolete skills whining about forcing companies to spend billions employing them for no reason.  Getting together to boycott IBM is exactly the kind of pseudo-statist bullshit that has destroyed American productivity for decades.  Frankly, if I were IBM and you folks were to organize a union or a boycott, I'd simply fire <b>every</b> american worker and move all the jobs elsewhere.  The people in places like China and India are willing to do what it takes to have a job, and it is well past time for the whiny precious snowflakes in the United States to do the same.  Yes, this may mean taking a pay cut, and yes it may also mean giving up your health care and other benefits, but in a truly free market if you want a job and a living, IBM has NO obligation to provide it to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One can be a libertarian and love the free market , but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.The cognitive dissonance in this statement is astonishing .
One can love the free market , but get angry when a free actor in that maket takes improves its efficiency ?
This is absolutely hypocrisy of the worst sort.In a true lasseiz faire capitalist society , you live by your skills and their relevance .
I look at the typical slashdotter and all I see are people who have obsolete skills whining about forcing companies to spend billions employing them for no reason .
Getting together to boycott IBM is exactly the kind of pseudo-statist bullshit that has destroyed American productivity for decades .
Frankly , if I were IBM and you folks were to organize a union or a boycott , I 'd simply fire every american worker and move all the jobs elsewhere .
The people in places like China and India are willing to do what it takes to have a job , and it is well past time for the whiny precious snowflakes in the United States to do the same .
Yes , this may mean taking a pay cut , and yes it may also mean giving up your health care and other benefits , but in a truly free market if you want a job and a living , IBM has NO obligation to provide it to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One can be a libertarian and love the free market, but still not want to do business with companies that screw over your friends and neighbors.The cognitive dissonance in this statement is astonishing.
One can love the free market, but get angry when a free actor in that maket takes improves its efficiency?
This is absolutely hypocrisy of the worst sort.In a true lasseiz faire capitalist society, you live by your skills and their relevance.
I look at the typical slashdotter and all I see are people who have obsolete skills whining about forcing companies to spend billions employing them for no reason.
Getting together to boycott IBM is exactly the kind of pseudo-statist bullshit that has destroyed American productivity for decades.
Frankly, if I were IBM and you folks were to organize a union or a boycott, I'd simply fire every american worker and move all the jobs elsewhere.
The people in places like China and India are willing to do what it takes to have a job, and it is well past time for the whiny precious snowflakes in the United States to do the same.
Yes, this may mean taking a pay cut, and yes it may also mean giving up your health care and other benefits, but in a truly free market if you want a job and a living, IBM has NO obligation to provide it to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453592</id>
	<title>Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268418780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why should IBM pay,say 50K/year for a US programmer when it can get the same for 10K in India. Salaries are another expense the company must keep as low as possible.<br>IBM's purpose is to make money for its shareholders, which btw I presume are mostly US citizens- not charity. Welcome to Capitalism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should IBM pay,say 50K/year for a US programmer when it can get the same for 10K in India .
Salaries are another expense the company must keep as low as possible.IBM 's purpose is to make money for its shareholders , which btw I presume are mostly US citizens- not charity .
Welcome to Capitalism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why should IBM pay,say 50K/year for a US programmer when it can get the same for 10K in India.
Salaries are another expense the company must keep as low as possible.IBM's purpose is to make money for its shareholders, which btw I presume are mostly US citizens- not charity.
Welcome to Capitalism.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453956</id>
	<title>let me see</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1268420400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we here in turkey are surprised that noone can use any seeds but monsanto's, an american company's today. even the seeds farmers had been keeping for generations have been banned, through bought out laws. and how it takes filthy underhanded measures to kill competition through any means possible, to the extent of going the way of modifying its own seeds to kill out any plant from the same species not genetically modified by monsanto.</p><p><a href="http://www.impactlab.com/2009/12/14/a-global-horror-story-how-monsanto-owns-and-manipulates-the-worlds-food-supply/" title="impactlab.com">http://www.impactlab.com/2009/12/14/a-global-horror-story-how-monsanto-owns-and-manipulates-the-worlds-food-supply/</a> [impactlab.com]</p><p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=monsanto+horror&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&amp;client=firefox-a" title="google.com">http://www.google.com/search?q=monsanto+horror&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&amp;client=firefox-a</a> [google.com]</p><p>in a sidenote, some states in usa also have banned monsanto seeds, because they found out what monsanto was doing.</p><p>all because you americans have adopted a stupid, beyond logic approach to 'unregulated' business, and ended up not only being a bitch of your own corporations yourselves, but also making them a major problem plaguing the entire world.</p><p>well excuse me, but, you people in u.s. have no right to complain over ANYthing. in the end, this was the political ideology you adopted (hands off businesses so they can screw everyone, everything), and those were the people you voted for.</p><p>in your terms 'you get what you pay for'. enjoy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we here in turkey are surprised that noone can use any seeds but monsanto 's , an american company 's today .
even the seeds farmers had been keeping for generations have been banned , through bought out laws .
and how it takes filthy underhanded measures to kill competition through any means possible , to the extent of going the way of modifying its own seeds to kill out any plant from the same species not genetically modified by monsanto.http : //www.impactlab.com/2009/12/14/a-global-horror-story-how-monsanto-owns-and-manipulates-the-worlds-food-supply/ [ impactlab.com ] http : //www.google.com/search ? q = monsanto + horror&amp;ie = utf-8&amp;oe = utf-8&amp;aq = t&amp;rls = org.mozilla : en-GB : official&amp;client = firefox-a [ google.com ] in a sidenote , some states in usa also have banned monsanto seeds , because they found out what monsanto was doing.all because you americans have adopted a stupid , beyond logic approach to 'unregulated ' business , and ended up not only being a bitch of your own corporations yourselves , but also making them a major problem plaguing the entire world.well excuse me , but , you people in u.s. have no right to complain over ANYthing .
in the end , this was the political ideology you adopted ( hands off businesses so they can screw everyone , everything ) , and those were the people you voted for.in your terms 'you get what you pay for' .
enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we here in turkey are surprised that noone can use any seeds but monsanto's, an american company's today.
even the seeds farmers had been keeping for generations have been banned, through bought out laws.
and how it takes filthy underhanded measures to kill competition through any means possible, to the extent of going the way of modifying its own seeds to kill out any plant from the same species not genetically modified by monsanto.http://www.impactlab.com/2009/12/14/a-global-horror-story-how-monsanto-owns-and-manipulates-the-worlds-food-supply/ [impactlab.com]http://www.google.com/search?q=monsanto+horror&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&amp;client=firefox-a [google.com]in a sidenote, some states in usa also have banned monsanto seeds, because they found out what monsanto was doing.all because you americans have adopted a stupid, beyond logic approach to 'unregulated' business, and ended up not only being a bitch of your own corporations yourselves, but also making them a major problem plaguing the entire world.well excuse me, but, you people in u.s. have no right to complain over ANYthing.
in the end, this was the political ideology you adopted (hands off businesses so they can screw everyone, everything), and those were the people you voted for.in your terms 'you get what you pay for'.
enjoy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453852</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It IS a problem when these companies continue to suckle on the taxpayers teat for both civilian and military contracts. Most of us understand that with a global economy, there will be jobs that move to countries with lower cost workforces. The real issue is that companies that hide this movement from the people, knowing full well that sales will be impacted negatively from the country that is losing the jobs. When the country is your biggest customer is also the biggest loser of jobs, you would WANT to obfuscate that data. This would be true for any company in any country.</p><p>This reminds me of Tata Group and when they outsource jobs from &lsquo;highly&rsquo; paid Indian call center workers to lower paid workers in Indonesia and the Philippines. The exploitation of resources is a huge issue, but more often than not there is a government that is more than willing to sacrifice the locals for profits. This happened when Britain was exploiting the colonies. If the people really want to throw off the yoke of oppression, they first need to look to the corrupt governments that are allowing this to happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It IS a problem when these companies continue to suckle on the taxpayers teat for both civilian and military contracts .
Most of us understand that with a global economy , there will be jobs that move to countries with lower cost workforces .
The real issue is that companies that hide this movement from the people , knowing full well that sales will be impacted negatively from the country that is losing the jobs .
When the country is your biggest customer is also the biggest loser of jobs , you would WANT to obfuscate that data .
This would be true for any company in any country.This reminds me of Tata Group and when they outsource jobs from    highly    paid Indian call center workers to lower paid workers in Indonesia and the Philippines .
The exploitation of resources is a huge issue , but more often than not there is a government that is more than willing to sacrifice the locals for profits .
This happened when Britain was exploiting the colonies .
If the people really want to throw off the yoke of oppression , they first need to look to the corrupt governments that are allowing this to happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It IS a problem when these companies continue to suckle on the taxpayers teat for both civilian and military contracts.
Most of us understand that with a global economy, there will be jobs that move to countries with lower cost workforces.
The real issue is that companies that hide this movement from the people, knowing full well that sales will be impacted negatively from the country that is losing the jobs.
When the country is your biggest customer is also the biggest loser of jobs, you would WANT to obfuscate that data.
This would be true for any company in any country.This reminds me of Tata Group and when they outsource jobs from ‘highly’ paid Indian call center workers to lower paid workers in Indonesia and the Philippines.
The exploitation of resources is a huge issue, but more often than not there is a government that is more than willing to sacrifice the locals for profits.
This happened when Britain was exploiting the colonies.
If the people really want to throw off the yoke of oppression, they first need to look to the corrupt governments that are allowing this to happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453520</id>
	<title>Re:ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>Amouth</author>
	<datestamp>1268418360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i personaly think NO company should be given special favors.   sorry i know that when a data center or a manufacturing plant is being built that it will bring jobs to a community BUT having communities fight over them by giving tax breaks or cheap land is just wrong - if nothing your stealing jobs from another community.  And it isn't fair at all to the smaller or mid sized companies that can't offer 1,000 jobs but rather 50.. the smaller ones end up paying a higher premium and there for it is harder to compete with the larger ones.</p><p>This scratch my back and i'll scratch yours shit has to stop or it will be the downfall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i personaly think NO company should be given special favors .
sorry i know that when a data center or a manufacturing plant is being built that it will bring jobs to a community BUT having communities fight over them by giving tax breaks or cheap land is just wrong - if nothing your stealing jobs from another community .
And it is n't fair at all to the smaller or mid sized companies that ca n't offer 1,000 jobs but rather 50.. the smaller ones end up paying a higher premium and there for it is harder to compete with the larger ones.This scratch my back and i 'll scratch yours shit has to stop or it will be the downfall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i personaly think NO company should be given special favors.
sorry i know that when a data center or a manufacturing plant is being built that it will bring jobs to a community BUT having communities fight over them by giving tax breaks or cheap land is just wrong - if nothing your stealing jobs from another community.
And it isn't fair at all to the smaller or mid sized companies that can't offer 1,000 jobs but rather 50.. the smaller ones end up paying a higher premium and there for it is harder to compete with the larger ones.This scratch my back and i'll scratch yours shit has to stop or it will be the downfall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453878</id>
	<title>Re:Wow. Offshoring...</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1268420100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?</p></div><p>
So, I take it you are in favor of fully recreating the Great Depression by enacting protectionist laws?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens ?
So , I take it you are in favor of fully recreating the Great Depression by enacting protectionist laws ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What level of unemployment should we reach in the united states before the government can act to protect its citizens?
So, I take it you are in favor of fully recreating the Great Depression by enacting protectionist laws?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453648</id>
	<title>IRS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268419140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If one hand in our hopelessly inefficient government knew what the other hand was doing, they wouldn't even have to ask IBM for these numbers, they could just use tax information from the IRS.</p><p>This is a non-story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If one hand in our hopelessly inefficient government knew what the other hand was doing , they would n't even have to ask IBM for these numbers , they could just use tax information from the IRS.This is a non-story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If one hand in our hopelessly inefficient government knew what the other hand was doing, they wouldn't even have to ask IBM for these numbers, they could just use tax information from the IRS.This is a non-story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454014</id>
	<title>Re:ibm isn't an american company anymore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268420640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>look at the ceo's message always brags about multi-culturism. IBM is no longer an american company.

Worked for them for a couple of years only to loose my job, to agents who flew in from india on visa's who had absolutely no clue what they were doing. the whole shop/management got converted over into india and everyone in our office got fired..they work em for cheap, u get what u pay for , but no one cares about quality anymore just profit..which aggrevates alot of employees if i recall there was even a shooting over this a last year i believe

other companies are doing the same thing, i find it discusting that during these hard times, which such high unemployment where people need the jobs to feed their families, their being taken away, its time for government to do something and tax those companies that take jobs away during hardship times. however since the whole country is run by a corperation its hard to say if anything will get done.</htmltext>
<tokenext>look at the ceo 's message always brags about multi-culturism .
IBM is no longer an american company .
Worked for them for a couple of years only to loose my job , to agents who flew in from india on visa 's who had absolutely no clue what they were doing .
the whole shop/management got converted over into india and everyone in our office got fired..they work em for cheap , u get what u pay for , but no one cares about quality anymore just profit..which aggrevates alot of employees if i recall there was even a shooting over this a last year i believe other companies are doing the same thing , i find it discusting that during these hard times , which such high unemployment where people need the jobs to feed their families , their being taken away , its time for government to do something and tax those companies that take jobs away during hardship times .
however since the whole country is run by a corperation its hard to say if anything will get done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>look at the ceo's message always brags about multi-culturism.
IBM is no longer an american company.
Worked for them for a couple of years only to loose my job, to agents who flew in from india on visa's who had absolutely no clue what they were doing.
the whole shop/management got converted over into india and everyone in our office got fired..they work em for cheap, u get what u pay for , but no one cares about quality anymore just profit..which aggrevates alot of employees if i recall there was even a shooting over this a last year i believe

other companies are doing the same thing, i find it discusting that during these hard times, which such high unemployment where people need the jobs to feed their families, their being taken away, its time for government to do something and tax those companies that take jobs away during hardship times.
however since the whole country is run by a corperation its hard to say if anything will get done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31458996</id>
	<title>Re:ibm was born in new york state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268398920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't hate my poor brother. I just don't want the government telling me when I can and cannot get healthcare. I want that to be a decision I make along with my doctor and my family.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't hate my poor brother .
I just do n't want the government telling me when I can and can not get healthcare .
I want that to be a decision I make along with my doctor and my family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't hate my poor brother.
I just don't want the government telling me when I can and cannot get healthcare.
I want that to be a decision I make along with my doctor and my family.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453362</id>
	<title>Re:If you have nothing to hide...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268417820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're not hiding anything, they're just not telling people information for free anymore.</p><p>Last I knew companies weren't legal or socially obligated to disclose this kind of info.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're not hiding anything , they 're just not telling people information for free anymore.Last I knew companies were n't legal or socially obligated to disclose this kind of info .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're not hiding anything, they're just not telling people information for free anymore.Last I knew companies weren't legal or socially obligated to disclose this kind of info.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31463332</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as an IBMer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268488740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No I disagree. All of the Indians I have worked with in Canada have been terrible software developers. They completely lack creativity and can do nothing other than paste code together from websites and ask for help on forums. Maybe Nth generation ones are fine, but the smelly curry mongers who come here fresh off the boat, and even their kids, are down right terrible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No I disagree .
All of the Indians I have worked with in Canada have been terrible software developers .
They completely lack creativity and can do nothing other than paste code together from websites and ask for help on forums .
Maybe Nth generation ones are fine , but the smelly curry mongers who come here fresh off the boat , and even their kids , are down right terrible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No I disagree.
All of the Indians I have worked with in Canada have been terrible software developers.
They completely lack creativity and can do nothing other than paste code together from websites and ask for help on forums.
Maybe Nth generation ones are fine, but the smelly curry mongers who come here fresh off the boat, and even their kids, are down right terrible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31454646</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453784</id>
	<title>They tirrrkk errrr JERRRBBSS!!</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1268419620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = brj2UkUPjCI [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31461716</id>
	<title>Re:There are no American corporations.</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1268418000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Behind every great fortune there is a crime." --Honore de Balzac</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Behind every great fortune there is a crime .
" --Honore de Balzac</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Behind every great fortune there is a crime.
" --Honore de Balzac</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31456276</id>
	<title>Re:Umm, so what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268387460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Complete twaddle.  Do you really think that these jobs are going to the hundreds of thousands of Indians surviving on less than a dollar a day?  They'll be going to the rich English speaking Indian middle class who could afford to go to university.  You never know, but, some of those American workers may have pulled themselves out of (American levels of) poverty by getting their IT qualifications and career.  It's too easy to say America rich, India poor and therefore this always justifies outsourcing American jobs.</p><p>No, I'm not American.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Complete twaddle .
Do you really think that these jobs are going to the hundreds of thousands of Indians surviving on less than a dollar a day ?
They 'll be going to the rich English speaking Indian middle class who could afford to go to university .
You never know , but , some of those American workers may have pulled themselves out of ( American levels of ) poverty by getting their IT qualifications and career .
It 's too easy to say America rich , India poor and therefore this always justifies outsourcing American jobs.No , I 'm not American .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Complete twaddle.
Do you really think that these jobs are going to the hundreds of thousands of Indians surviving on less than a dollar a day?
They'll be going to the rich English speaking Indian middle class who could afford to go to university.
You never know, but, some of those American workers may have pulled themselves out of (American levels of) poverty by getting their IT qualifications and career.
It's too easy to say America rich, India poor and therefore this always justifies outsourcing American jobs.No, I'm not American.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_12_1520226.31453228</id>
	<title>Good</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1268417280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stop with the federal and state contract with IBM. And when they give up the data, then it is time for contracts to be tied to the nations monetary difference if the nation fixes their money. In particular, since a lot of IBM hardware is made in China, then we should determine the true difference on their money, and then their contracts should be adjusted accordingly. So, if it is determined that money should be 1 to 1 with Yuan to Dollar, rather than the currently fixed 7 to 1, then the contract needs to be less 1/7 of the bottom of another contract to win.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop with the federal and state contract with IBM .
And when they give up the data , then it is time for contracts to be tied to the nations monetary difference if the nation fixes their money .
In particular , since a lot of IBM hardware is made in China , then we should determine the true difference on their money , and then their contracts should be adjusted accordingly .
So , if it is determined that money should be 1 to 1 with Yuan to Dollar , rather than the currently fixed 7 to 1 , then the contract needs to be less 1/7 of the bottom of another contract to win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop with the federal and state contract with IBM.
And when they give up the data, then it is time for contracts to be tied to the nations monetary difference if the nation fixes their money.
In particular, since a lot of IBM hardware is made in China, then we should determine the true difference on their money, and then their contracts should be adjusted accordingly.
So, if it is determined that money should be 1 to 1 with Yuan to Dollar, rather than the currently fixed 7 to 1, then the contract needs to be less 1/7 of the bottom of another contract to win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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