<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_10_1449259</id>
	<title>EU Parliament Rejects ACTA In a 663 To 13 Vote</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1268234340000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"'The European Parliament defied the EU executive today (10 March), casting <a href="http://www.euractiv.com/en/health/meps-defy-commission-internet-piracy-agreement-news-326215">a vote against an agreement between the EU, the US</a> and other major powers on combating online piracy and threatening to take legal action at the European Court of Justice.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " 'The European Parliament defied the EU executive today ( 10 March ) , casting a vote against an agreement between the EU , the US and other major powers on combating online piracy and threatening to take legal action at the European Court of Justice .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "'The European Parliament defied the EU executive today (10 March), casting a vote against an agreement between the EU, the US and other major powers on combating online piracy and threatening to take legal action at the European Court of Justice.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</id>
	<title>Reality</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1268240040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Today, the US economy "manufactures" IP.  The vast factories that employ thousands of people have all moved to Mexico or China and they aren't coming back no matter what happens.  The WTO is going to see to that.</p><p>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?  Dream on.  You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.</p><p>The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.  A admirable goal and one that most people don't really see any problem with.  Which leads to sillyness like a software developer whose salary depends on the company's revenue from software sales freely downloading and redistributing movies.  Sure, it is easy and convenient, but best of all it is really cheap.  But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive?  I guess they could come up with a "new business model" that supports giving it all away for free.  But they probably aren't going to need as many developers...</p><p>Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.  This is going to cost a lot more money, money the government gets from taxes.  Pirates don't pay taxes on what they "try before buying".  So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away, the government's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away.  The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.</p><p>So what is going to happen?  Well, I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movement.  They could tax Internet connections.  They could crack down on piracy in all sorts of ways.  They could do both.  But no matter what, they aren't going to take the revenue loss lying down and are going to do something.  Probably something big because the appetite for tax revenue is just going to get a lot bigger over the next few years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Today , the US economy " manufactures " IP .
The vast factories that employ thousands of people have all moved to Mexico or China and they are n't coming back no matter what happens .
The WTO is going to see to that.Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US is n't going to be passed around for free ?
Dream on .
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays , ever .
A admirable goal and one that most people do n't really see any problem with .
Which leads to sillyness like a software developer whose salary depends on the company 's revenue from software sales freely downloading and redistributing movies .
Sure , it is easy and convenient , but best of all it is really cheap .
But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive ?
I guess they could come up with a " new business model " that supports giving it all away for free .
But they probably are n't going to need as many developers...Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone .
This is going to cost a lot more money , money the government gets from taxes .
Pirates do n't pay taxes on what they " try before buying " .
So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away , the government 's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away .
The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.So what is going to happen ?
Well , I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movement .
They could tax Internet connections .
They could crack down on piracy in all sorts of ways .
They could do both .
But no matter what , they are n't going to take the revenue loss lying down and are going to do something .
Probably something big because the appetite for tax revenue is just going to get a lot bigger over the next few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today, the US economy "manufactures" IP.
The vast factories that employ thousands of people have all moved to Mexico or China and they aren't coming back no matter what happens.
The WTO is going to see to that.Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?
Dream on.
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.
A admirable goal and one that most people don't really see any problem with.
Which leads to sillyness like a software developer whose salary depends on the company's revenue from software sales freely downloading and redistributing movies.
Sure, it is easy and convenient, but best of all it is really cheap.
But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive?
I guess they could come up with a "new business model" that supports giving it all away for free.
But they probably aren't going to need as many developers...Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.
This is going to cost a lot more money, money the government gets from taxes.
Pirates don't pay taxes on what they "try before buying".
So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away, the government's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away.
The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.So what is going to happen?
Well, I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movement.
They could tax Internet connections.
They could crack down on piracy in all sorts of ways.
They could do both.
But no matter what, they aren't going to take the revenue loss lying down and are going to do something.
Probably something big because the appetite for tax revenue is just going to get a lot bigger over the next few years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427690</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268243400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How dare you oppose the "Milk for Cute Babies and Kittens" act?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How dare you oppose the " Milk for Cute Babies and Kittens " act ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How dare you oppose the "Milk for Cute Babies and Kittens" act?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426992</id>
	<title>Not a rejection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are not rejecting the ACTA treaty - there is no final document to vote on yet. They have voted through a resolution demanding transparancy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are not rejecting the ACTA treaty - there is no final document to vote on yet .
They have voted through a resolution demanding transparancy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are not rejecting the ACTA treaty - there is no final document to vote on yet.
They have voted through a resolution demanding transparancy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429812</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268253540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And if for some unholy reason you want to listen to RIAA dreck, you can get all the free, legal RIAA music you want by plugging your FM radio into your computer's sound card and sampling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if for some unholy reason you want to listen to RIAA dreck , you can get all the free , legal RIAA music you want by plugging your FM radio into your computer 's sound card and sampling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if for some unholy reason you want to listen to RIAA dreck, you can get all the free, legal RIAA music you want by plugging your FM radio into your computer's sound card and sampling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426786</id>
	<title>It's more of a clash between EC and EP...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You may see it as a move against ACTA, but the unity behind the EP's recent motion comes from a procedural disagreement between EP (parliament) and EC (comission). In other words its not EP rejecting ACTA but EP denying EC right to negotiate such an act without EP's knowledge, participation and alike.<br>I'm sketching it roughly, it's much more layered, but it's definitely not a simple rejection of ACTA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You may see it as a move against ACTA , but the unity behind the EP 's recent motion comes from a procedural disagreement between EP ( parliament ) and EC ( comission ) .
In other words its not EP rejecting ACTA but EP denying EC right to negotiate such an act without EP 's knowledge , participation and alike.I 'm sketching it roughly , it 's much more layered , but it 's definitely not a simple rejection of ACTA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may see it as a move against ACTA, but the unity behind the EP's recent motion comes from a procedural disagreement between EP (parliament) and EC (comission).
In other words its not EP rejecting ACTA but EP denying EC right to negotiate such an act without EP's knowledge, participation and alike.I'm sketching it roughly, it's much more layered, but it's definitely not a simple rejection of ACTA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427814</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>klui</author>
	<datestamp>1268243880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Data is up now. The desenters are from the UK or Netherlands. That's not to say everyone from the UK/Netherlands voted no nor from the same group voted the same. For the most part, the EFD of which many are from the UK, most voted no or absent (from Italy).</p><p>It's ironic "EFD" stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Data is up now .
The desenters are from the UK or Netherlands .
That 's not to say everyone from the UK/Netherlands voted no nor from the same group voted the same .
For the most part , the EFD of which many are from the UK , most voted no or absent ( from Italy ) .It 's ironic " EFD " stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Data is up now.
The desenters are from the UK or Netherlands.
That's not to say everyone from the UK/Netherlands voted no nor from the same group voted the same.
For the most part, the EFD of which many are from the UK, most voted no or absent (from Italy).It's ironic "EFD" stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428196</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>yariv</author>
	<datestamp>1268245860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You do know the States (the north-east, at least) were founded by people escaping Britain for political (mainly religious) prosecution, right? They didn't fight where they couldn't win, they fled instead. So, you can't win if you'll always run, but sometimes you can't win anyway. You have to pick your battles. I don't really know how things are in the US (or Europe) right now, but there is a point at which you just leave to fight another battle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do know the States ( the north-east , at least ) were founded by people escaping Britain for political ( mainly religious ) prosecution , right ?
They did n't fight where they could n't win , they fled instead .
So , you ca n't win if you 'll always run , but sometimes you ca n't win anyway .
You have to pick your battles .
I do n't really know how things are in the US ( or Europe ) right now , but there is a point at which you just leave to fight another battle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do know the States (the north-east, at least) were founded by people escaping Britain for political (mainly religious) prosecution, right?
They didn't fight where they couldn't win, they fled instead.
So, you can't win if you'll always run, but sometimes you can't win anyway.
You have to pick your battles.
I don't really know how things are in the US (or Europe) right now, but there is a point at which you just leave to fight another battle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31435928</id>
	<title>No it didn't</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1268306280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bad summary : the EU parliament voted to make it mandatory for the negociations to be public and to provide it with some guidelines (approximately says : respect the current EU law). That's all. They can't refuse a thing they don't even know the content.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad summary : the EU parliament voted to make it mandatory for the negociations to be public and to provide it with some guidelines ( approximately says : respect the current EU law ) .
That 's all .
They ca n't refuse a thing they do n't even know the content .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad summary : the EU parliament voted to make it mandatory for the negociations to be public and to provide it with some guidelines (approximately says : respect the current EU law).
That's all.
They can't refuse a thing they don't even know the content.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428112</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1268245320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, it's those little European idiosyncrasies that make me crazy, like the extremely unusual measurement system. Who on Earth understands that?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , it 's those little European idiosyncrasies that make me crazy , like the extremely unusual measurement system .
Who on Earth understands that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, it's those little European idiosyncrasies that make me crazy, like the extremely unusual measurement system.
Who on Earth understands that?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427838</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The minority consisted of representatives of only two nations: 10 UK votes, 3 Netherlands votes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The minority consisted of representatives of only two nations : 10 UK votes , 3 Netherlands votes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The minority consisted of representatives of only two nations: 10 UK votes, 3 Netherlands votes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428090</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268245200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been fighting for about twenty-five years now, since I was old enough to vote.  It hasn't done much to stop my society from "going south."  Now, sure, I can spend the rest of my life tilting at windmills, but at a certain point I value the quality of life for myself and for my family enough to find a better place for us to live.</p><p>I don't know how old you are, but your post smacks of 20-something naive idealism.  I hate to break it to you, but you're fighting a battle that you can't win.  But, hey, have a go at it; I wish you the best of luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been fighting for about twenty-five years now , since I was old enough to vote .
It has n't done much to stop my society from " going south .
" Now , sure , I can spend the rest of my life tilting at windmills , but at a certain point I value the quality of life for myself and for my family enough to find a better place for us to live.I do n't know how old you are , but your post smacks of 20-something naive idealism .
I hate to break it to you , but you 're fighting a battle that you ca n't win .
But , hey , have a go at it ; I wish you the best of luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been fighting for about twenty-five years now, since I was old enough to vote.
It hasn't done much to stop my society from "going south.
"  Now, sure, I can spend the rest of my life tilting at windmills, but at a certain point I value the quality of life for myself and for my family enough to find a better place for us to live.I don't know how old you are, but your post smacks of 20-something naive idealism.
I hate to break it to you, but you're fighting a battle that you can't win.
But, hey, have a go at it; I wish you the best of luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426796</id>
	<title>Re:And that is why..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>have fun playing your non-violent games then!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>have fun playing your non-violent games then !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>have fun playing your non-violent games then!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426800</id>
	<title>RATM</title>
	<author>bazorg</author>
	<datestamp>1268239560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can imagine all the members of parliament singing that famous Chritsmas hit single by Rage against the Machine... but probably they didn't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can imagine all the members of parliament singing that famous Chritsmas hit single by Rage against the Machine... but probably they did n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can imagine all the members of parliament singing that famous Chritsmas hit single by Rage against the Machine... but probably they didn't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31462932</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268480580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's a quote attributed to Jess Unruh: "If you can't drink their booze, take their money, sleep with their women and then vote against 'em, you don't belong in politics."</p><p>That'd be a lot easier for politicians if the lobbyists didn't know who the politicians voted for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a quote attributed to Jess Unruh : " If you ca n't drink their booze , take their money , sleep with their women and then vote against 'em , you do n't belong in politics .
" That 'd be a lot easier for politicians if the lobbyists did n't know who the politicians voted for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a quote attributed to Jess Unruh: "If you can't drink their booze, take their money, sleep with their women and then vote against 'em, you don't belong in politics.
"That'd be a lot easier for politicians if the lobbyists didn't know who the politicians voted for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427964</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's nothing we can do.  Our politicians (and, yes, our media) are experts at eploiting the fears of the majority.  This majority is under-educated, is poorly informed, and has no true sense of history.  They can't see the writing on the wall.  They can't see that their rights are being rapidly eroded in the name of security.  They are being worked longer for less pay, and when they come home, they don't have any energy for anything beyond a couple of beers, some TV, and trying desperately to protect their limited worldview.</p><p>There's no outlet for the few of us who can see how our civil liberties are slipping away.  To the media, we're all crackpots.  Anything we say on the internet is instantly discarded because there are millions upon millions of people on the internet screaming at the top of their fingertips about their pet peeves and the issues that directly concern them.  Why should anyone pay attention to someone ranting on the internet?</p><p>The libertarians are trying, but even if they accomplish all their goals, they are going to screw us over with their pro-corporate laissez faire market views.  As far as I know, there are no major political movements pushing for increased individual liberty AND increased corporate regulation.</p><p>There's no outlet for us in the politcal arena.  The media makes fun of us.  The internet is useless for meaningful debate that results in real action.  Too few people read books anymore.  Where do we make ourselves heard?  What podium do we use?  Do we dare to practice civil disobedience and allow ourselves and our families to be destroyed? The Feds have over-criminalized everything.  Prosecutors no longer bother with demonstrating criminal intent.  Judges either have their hands tied or have lost all their humanity in dealing with the worst of our society on a daily basis.  The zero tolerance mentality dominates our law enforcement, and there is no longer any human compassion in our justice system. Hell, we're sending people to federal prison for 2 YEARS for importing crabs in plastic bags instead of cardboard boxes. I'm willing to sacrifice myself to make a political statement, but if I did so, my wife and children would suffer greatly.  I can't allow that.</p><p>I thought President Obama would help. I voted for him.  He was a constitutional law scholar, after all, and I thought that if anyone could defend our freedoms, it would be him.  But then he filled the Department of Justice with RIAA lawyers, and he put a judge on the Supreme Court who had previously issued a decision which stated that the state's interest in instilling a "respect for authority" in its citizens over-ruled citizens' freedom of speech. (I shit you not. This, in the land of Thomas Jefferson, Nathaniel Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, actually happened.)</p><p>So what option do we have besides violence?  That is no real option. I do NOT condone violence.  Why would it be okay for me to destroy someone else's life in an effort to stop the government from destroying mine?  Even if violence was an ethical solution, we have no means for it.  Have you ever been around our right wing militias?  They are a bunch of angry, self-congratulatory guys who like to play soldier.  Our military would snicker before backhanding them into non-existance. (The lessons of the Whiskey Rebellion should not be forgotten.) As far as I know, there are no left wing militias.  If there were, they would be labeled militant communists and would lose all support necessary for survival.</p><p>This country is gone.  The United States of America that we were promised as school children no longer exists.  This is no longer the land of the free.  To borrow from Leonard Cohen, "Everbody knows the dice are loaded.  Everybody knows the war is lost."</p><p>That's why, as soon as I can get the money together, I am moving my family somewhere else. I don't know where yet, but it sure as hell won't be Canada.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's nothing we can do .
Our politicians ( and , yes , our media ) are experts at eploiting the fears of the majority .
This majority is under-educated , is poorly informed , and has no true sense of history .
They ca n't see the writing on the wall .
They ca n't see that their rights are being rapidly eroded in the name of security .
They are being worked longer for less pay , and when they come home , they do n't have any energy for anything beyond a couple of beers , some TV , and trying desperately to protect their limited worldview.There 's no outlet for the few of us who can see how our civil liberties are slipping away .
To the media , we 're all crackpots .
Anything we say on the internet is instantly discarded because there are millions upon millions of people on the internet screaming at the top of their fingertips about their pet peeves and the issues that directly concern them .
Why should anyone pay attention to someone ranting on the internet ? The libertarians are trying , but even if they accomplish all their goals , they are going to screw us over with their pro-corporate laissez faire market views .
As far as I know , there are no major political movements pushing for increased individual liberty AND increased corporate regulation.There 's no outlet for us in the politcal arena .
The media makes fun of us .
The internet is useless for meaningful debate that results in real action .
Too few people read books anymore .
Where do we make ourselves heard ?
What podium do we use ?
Do we dare to practice civil disobedience and allow ourselves and our families to be destroyed ?
The Feds have over-criminalized everything .
Prosecutors no longer bother with demonstrating criminal intent .
Judges either have their hands tied or have lost all their humanity in dealing with the worst of our society on a daily basis .
The zero tolerance mentality dominates our law enforcement , and there is no longer any human compassion in our justice system .
Hell , we 're sending people to federal prison for 2 YEARS for importing crabs in plastic bags instead of cardboard boxes .
I 'm willing to sacrifice myself to make a political statement , but if I did so , my wife and children would suffer greatly .
I ca n't allow that.I thought President Obama would help .
I voted for him .
He was a constitutional law scholar , after all , and I thought that if anyone could defend our freedoms , it would be him .
But then he filled the Department of Justice with RIAA lawyers , and he put a judge on the Supreme Court who had previously issued a decision which stated that the state 's interest in instilling a " respect for authority " in its citizens over-ruled citizens ' freedom of speech .
( I shit you not .
This , in the land of Thomas Jefferson , Nathaniel Hale , and Benjamin Franklin , actually happened .
) So what option do we have besides violence ?
That is no real option .
I do NOT condone violence .
Why would it be okay for me to destroy someone else 's life in an effort to stop the government from destroying mine ?
Even if violence was an ethical solution , we have no means for it .
Have you ever been around our right wing militias ?
They are a bunch of angry , self-congratulatory guys who like to play soldier .
Our military would snicker before backhanding them into non-existance .
( The lessons of the Whiskey Rebellion should not be forgotten .
) As far as I know , there are no left wing militias .
If there were , they would be labeled militant communists and would lose all support necessary for survival.This country is gone .
The United States of America that we were promised as school children no longer exists .
This is no longer the land of the free .
To borrow from Leonard Cohen , " Everbody knows the dice are loaded .
Everybody knows the war is lost .
" That 's why , as soon as I can get the money together , I am moving my family somewhere else .
I do n't know where yet , but it sure as hell wo n't be Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's nothing we can do.
Our politicians (and, yes, our media) are experts at eploiting the fears of the majority.
This majority is under-educated, is poorly informed, and has no true sense of history.
They can't see the writing on the wall.
They can't see that their rights are being rapidly eroded in the name of security.
They are being worked longer for less pay, and when they come home, they don't have any energy for anything beyond a couple of beers, some TV, and trying desperately to protect their limited worldview.There's no outlet for the few of us who can see how our civil liberties are slipping away.
To the media, we're all crackpots.
Anything we say on the internet is instantly discarded because there are millions upon millions of people on the internet screaming at the top of their fingertips about their pet peeves and the issues that directly concern them.
Why should anyone pay attention to someone ranting on the internet?The libertarians are trying, but even if they accomplish all their goals, they are going to screw us over with their pro-corporate laissez faire market views.
As far as I know, there are no major political movements pushing for increased individual liberty AND increased corporate regulation.There's no outlet for us in the politcal arena.
The media makes fun of us.
The internet is useless for meaningful debate that results in real action.
Too few people read books anymore.
Where do we make ourselves heard?
What podium do we use?
Do we dare to practice civil disobedience and allow ourselves and our families to be destroyed?
The Feds have over-criminalized everything.
Prosecutors no longer bother with demonstrating criminal intent.
Judges either have their hands tied or have lost all their humanity in dealing with the worst of our society on a daily basis.
The zero tolerance mentality dominates our law enforcement, and there is no longer any human compassion in our justice system.
Hell, we're sending people to federal prison for 2 YEARS for importing crabs in plastic bags instead of cardboard boxes.
I'm willing to sacrifice myself to make a political statement, but if I did so, my wife and children would suffer greatly.
I can't allow that.I thought President Obama would help.
I voted for him.
He was a constitutional law scholar, after all, and I thought that if anyone could defend our freedoms, it would be him.
But then he filled the Department of Justice with RIAA lawyers, and he put a judge on the Supreme Court who had previously issued a decision which stated that the state's interest in instilling a "respect for authority" in its citizens over-ruled citizens' freedom of speech.
(I shit you not.
This, in the land of Thomas Jefferson, Nathaniel Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, actually happened.
)So what option do we have besides violence?
That is no real option.
I do NOT condone violence.
Why would it be okay for me to destroy someone else's life in an effort to stop the government from destroying mine?
Even if violence was an ethical solution, we have no means for it.
Have you ever been around our right wing militias?
They are a bunch of angry, self-congratulatory guys who like to play soldier.
Our military would snicker before backhanding them into non-existance.
(The lessons of the Whiskey Rebellion should not be forgotten.
) As far as I know, there are no left wing militias.
If there were, they would be labeled militant communists and would lose all support necessary for survival.This country is gone.
The United States of America that we were promised as school children no longer exists.
This is no longer the land of the free.
To borrow from Leonard Cohen, "Everbody knows the dice are loaded.
Everybody knows the war is lost.
"That's why, as soon as I can get the money together, I am moving my family somewhere else.
I don't know where yet, but it sure as hell won't be Canada.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429058</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268249940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you are confusing "Sales Tax" with "Income Tax" there buddy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you are confusing " Sales Tax " with " Income Tax " there buddy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you are confusing "Sales Tax" with "Income Tax" there buddy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31436032</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>sonicmerlin</author>
	<datestamp>1268308260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's not true, especially since the Treaty of Lisbon that went into effect December 1, 2009.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not true , especially since the Treaty of Lisbon that went into effect December 1 , 2009 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not true, especially since the Treaty of Lisbon that went into effect December 1, 2009.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428246</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not really convinced of your point. Imagine you make that great BBQ and one of the persons you invited is a vegan. But he spends his entire time bitching about how eating meat is evil.</p><p>Should he fight or should he go? There are lots of people who want exactly the opposite of what you want. Do you really want them to fight?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not really convinced of your point .
Imagine you make that great BBQ and one of the persons you invited is a vegan .
But he spends his entire time bitching about how eating meat is evil.Should he fight or should he go ?
There are lots of people who want exactly the opposite of what you want .
Do you really want them to fight ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not really convinced of your point.
Imagine you make that great BBQ and one of the persons you invited is a vegan.
But he spends his entire time bitching about how eating meat is evil.Should he fight or should he go?
There are lots of people who want exactly the opposite of what you want.
Do you really want them to fight?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31434198</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>rdnetto</author>
	<datestamp>1268238660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ironically, percentages are a metric concept.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically , percentages are a metric concept .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically, percentages are a metric concept.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31435758</id>
	<title>Call me a Godwinner' but...</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268303280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that.</p></div><p>Maybe the Council needs to be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling\_Act\_of\_1933" title="wikipedia.org">enabled</a> [wikipedia.org]?</p><p>Godwin was on to something.  Just like Hitler and the Naz... no, wait, that was the other thing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that.Maybe the Council needs to be enabled [ wikipedia.org ] ? Godwin was on to something .
Just like Hitler and the Naz... no , wait , that was the other thing ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that.Maybe the Council needs to be enabled [wikipedia.org]?Godwin was on to something.
Just like Hitler and the Naz... no, wait, that was the other thing ;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31436630</id>
	<title>Re:It's sad to see</title>
	<author>zsau</author>
	<datestamp>1268317140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it makes you feel any better, it's probably the US's fault on both sides. Which at least means that the US did do something good in Europe, even if they did a whole lot of crap in the US. Now let's just hope that the EU can keep to its senses in the long run. (Personally, I don't think there's much hope for any meganation, like the US or the EU. Once you get too big it's too easy to lose touch. I would prefer countries of five to ten million people, allied and with free trade and travel agreements, but not federated or confederated.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it makes you feel any better , it 's probably the US 's fault on both sides .
Which at least means that the US did do something good in Europe , even if they did a whole lot of crap in the US .
Now let 's just hope that the EU can keep to its senses in the long run .
( Personally , I do n't think there 's much hope for any meganation , like the US or the EU .
Once you get too big it 's too easy to lose touch .
I would prefer countries of five to ten million people , allied and with free trade and travel agreements , but not federated or confederated .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it makes you feel any better, it's probably the US's fault on both sides.
Which at least means that the US did do something good in Europe, even if they did a whole lot of crap in the US.
Now let's just hope that the EU can keep to its senses in the long run.
(Personally, I don't think there's much hope for any meganation, like the US or the EU.
Once you get too big it's too easy to lose touch.
I would prefer countries of five to ten million people, allied and with free trade and travel agreements, but not federated or confederated.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428528</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268247420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM</i></p><p>Like everyone who left their own country to come to the US because of changes in society they didn't like, where they came from?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they do n't like : you 're a loser , you 're a freeloader , and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMLike everyone who left their own country to come to the US because of changes in society they did n't like , where they came from ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMLike everyone who left their own country to come to the US because of changes in society they didn't like, where they came from?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428606</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Fred\_A</author>
	<datestamp>1268247900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard.</p></div><p>Voice of people being heard ? In our parliament ?</p><p>There has to be a catch somewhere...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard.Voice of people being heard ?
In our parliament ? There has to be a catch somewhere.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard.Voice of people being heard ?
In our parliament ?There has to be a catch somewhere...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427284</id>
	<title>Standing ovation...</title>
	<author>cbope</author>
	<datestamp>1268241480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another standing ovation here. Glad to see the MEP's using some of the power they gained in the Lisbon treaty. ACTA is far from over yet, but at least the MEP's are not letting the media companies steamroll them like the politicians in the US.</p><p>Citizens of the EU, let your MEP's know you support them in this and get your voices heard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another standing ovation here .
Glad to see the MEP 's using some of the power they gained in the Lisbon treaty .
ACTA is far from over yet , but at least the MEP 's are not letting the media companies steamroll them like the politicians in the US.Citizens of the EU , let your MEP 's know you support them in this and get your voices heard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another standing ovation here.
Glad to see the MEP's using some of the power they gained in the Lisbon treaty.
ACTA is far from over yet, but at least the MEP's are not letting the media companies steamroll them like the politicians in the US.Citizens of the EU, let your MEP's know you support them in this and get your voices heard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31435782</id>
	<title>What are you sad about?</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268303580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>[It's sad to see] how the world has changed in recent 150 years.</p></div><p>Why?  Because the mass centre of freedom has moved to somewhere different from where it was before (why is that bad...)?  Or because there's less freedom in the world?  Or because there's less freedom where <em>you</em> are?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ It 's sad to see ] how the world has changed in recent 150 years.Why ?
Because the mass centre of freedom has moved to somewhere different from where it was before ( why is that bad... ) ?
Or because there 's less freedom in the world ?
Or because there 's less freedom where you are ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[It's sad to see] how the world has changed in recent 150 years.Why?
Because the mass centre of freedom has moved to somewhere different from where it was before (why is that bad...)?
Or because there's less freedom in the world?
Or because there's less freedom where you are?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426708</id>
	<title>Better than rejected!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heh, this is a case where the inappropriately-effusive slashdot story is actually less exciting than the glum reality. This vote was a parliamentary resolution urging the European Commission to (among other things) fight the veil of secrecy that's kept ACTA out of the mainstream press for the most part. That's way cooler than "rejecting" some secret draft that we didn't know about anyway, and that would have been swiftly replaced with another secret draft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heh , this is a case where the inappropriately-effusive slashdot story is actually less exciting than the glum reality .
This vote was a parliamentary resolution urging the European Commission to ( among other things ) fight the veil of secrecy that 's kept ACTA out of the mainstream press for the most part .
That 's way cooler than " rejecting " some secret draft that we did n't know about anyway , and that would have been swiftly replaced with another secret draft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heh, this is a case where the inappropriately-effusive slashdot story is actually less exciting than the glum reality.
This vote was a parliamentary resolution urging the European Commission to (among other things) fight the veil of secrecy that's kept ACTA out of the mainstream press for the most part.
That's way cooler than "rejecting" some secret draft that we didn't know about anyway, and that would have been swiftly replaced with another secret draft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429220</id>
	<title>You're happy now, but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268250600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait until the EU balance of power shifts in the other direction and brings in EU wide ID with biometrics. There won't be a thing you will be able to do about it.</p><p>The EU is not a democratic organisation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait until the EU balance of power shifts in the other direction and brings in EU wide ID with biometrics .
There wo n't be a thing you will be able to do about it.The EU is not a democratic organisation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait until the EU balance of power shifts in the other direction and brings in EU wide ID with biometrics.
There won't be a thing you will be able to do about it.The EU is not a democratic organisation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426464</id>
	<title>Let me be the first</title>
	<author>calibre-not-output</author>
	<datestamp>1268238060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31435884</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>init100</author>
	<datestamp>1268305500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.</p></div><p>That was the case until the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. Before, the Commission and the Council of Ministers could largely ignore the Parliament in many questions, but the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the Parliament should have a say in pretty much all matters being decided on. So when the Commission and the Council of Ministers try to continue trampling on the Parliament, such as w.r.t. the ACTA, the Parliament is more than willing to exercise its newly acquired powers and make sure that they are not ignored, e.g. by blocking things as the ACTA, the SWIFT agreement, etc.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When in the EU something happens , all become aware of it only as a post factum , when it is too late to influence anything.That was the case until the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty .
Before , the Commission and the Council of Ministers could largely ignore the Parliament in many questions , but the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the Parliament should have a say in pretty much all matters being decided on .
So when the Commission and the Council of Ministers try to continue trampling on the Parliament , such as w.r.t .
the ACTA , the Parliament is more than willing to exercise its newly acquired powers and make sure that they are not ignored , e.g .
by blocking things as the ACTA , the SWIFT agreement , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.That was the case until the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.
Before, the Commission and the Council of Ministers could largely ignore the Parliament in many questions, but the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the Parliament should have a say in pretty much all matters being decided on.
So when the Commission and the Council of Ministers try to continue trampling on the Parliament, such as w.r.t.
the ACTA, the Parliament is more than willing to exercise its newly acquired powers and make sure that they are not ignored, e.g.
by blocking things as the ACTA, the SWIFT agreement, etc.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426842</id>
	<title>Re:And that is why..</title>
	<author>Ornlu</author>
	<datestamp>1268239740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yay Sheeple!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yay Sheeple !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yay Sheeple!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31443826</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268300640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great news for us<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great news for us : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great news for us :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427638</id>
	<title>Huzzah!</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1268243160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now if only the US corporate overlords^W^W politicians would follow suit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now if only the US corporate overlords ^ W ^ W politicians would follow suit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now if only the US corporate overlords^W^W politicians would follow suit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427874</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>roman\_mir</author>
	<datestamp>1268244120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, yeah, circletimessquare - the army of one.  How is it going at k5, haven't been there in years.</p><p>As to the point: someone born in society he/she does not like or into society that he/she finds intolerable should be able to leave and go somewhere else.  Sure, there is always possibility of fighting, but try and fight the religious right in Iran or the Saudi Arabia today, try and fight the Communist regime in China or better yet North Korea and you'll quickly find out how your life will end: swiftly and violently.  Not everyone is interested.  Looks like the US just maybe something like North Korea, only instead of one dictator you have a dictatorship shared between corporations and politicians the corporations set up to rule you.  Instead of a firing squad you just may end up in Gitmo (how is that Obak Rabama's promise on closing that place down working for you?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , yeah , circletimessquare - the army of one .
How is it going at k5 , have n't been there in years.As to the point : someone born in society he/she does not like or into society that he/she finds intolerable should be able to leave and go somewhere else .
Sure , there is always possibility of fighting , but try and fight the religious right in Iran or the Saudi Arabia today , try and fight the Communist regime in China or better yet North Korea and you 'll quickly find out how your life will end : swiftly and violently .
Not everyone is interested .
Looks like the US just maybe something like North Korea , only instead of one dictator you have a dictatorship shared between corporations and politicians the corporations set up to rule you .
Instead of a firing squad you just may end up in Gitmo ( how is that Obak Rabama 's promise on closing that place down working for you ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, yeah, circletimessquare - the army of one.
How is it going at k5, haven't been there in years.As to the point: someone born in society he/she does not like or into society that he/she finds intolerable should be able to leave and go somewhere else.
Sure, there is always possibility of fighting, but try and fight the religious right in Iran or the Saudi Arabia today, try and fight the Communist regime in China or better yet North Korea and you'll quickly find out how your life will end: swiftly and violently.
Not everyone is interested.
Looks like the US just maybe something like North Korea, only instead of one dictator you have a dictatorship shared between corporations and politicians the corporations set up to rule you.
Instead of a firing squad you just may end up in Gitmo (how is that Obak Rabama's promise on closing that place down working for you?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427936</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, you got it all backwards. You ignore the reality that there is no tax revenue loss due to piracy. And you miss the fact that health care costs will decrease under a public option not increase, relative to current US per-capita health costs. I don't consider you a troll, though some one else might, but rather a misguided person whose swallowing the traditional meme broadcast by authoritarians: be afraid, stay the course!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , you got it all backwards .
You ignore the reality that there is no tax revenue loss due to piracy .
And you miss the fact that health care costs will decrease under a public option not increase , relative to current US per-capita health costs .
I do n't consider you a troll , though some one else might , but rather a misguided person whose swallowing the traditional meme broadcast by authoritarians : be afraid , stay the course !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, you got it all backwards.
You ignore the reality that there is no tax revenue loss due to piracy.
And you miss the fact that health care costs will decrease under a public option not increase, relative to current US per-capita health costs.
I don't consider you a troll, though some one else might, but rather a misguided person whose swallowing the traditional meme broadcast by authoritarians: be afraid, stay the course!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427078</id>
	<title>Re:And that is why..</title>
	<author>BJ\_Covert\_Action</author>
	<datestamp>1268240640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hear <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Andorra</a> [wikipedia.org] and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Sweden</a> [wikipedia.org] are a bit better depending on what, specifically, you are looking for. Most of the German folk I've met have pretty major gripes about their government. However, I've never visited Andorra or Sweden...yet anyways.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear Andorra [ wikipedia.org ] and Sweden [ wikipedia.org ] are a bit better depending on what , specifically , you are looking for .
Most of the German folk I 've met have pretty major gripes about their government .
However , I 've never visited Andorra or Sweden...yet anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear Andorra [wikipedia.org] and Sweden [wikipedia.org] are a bit better depending on what, specifically, you are looking for.
Most of the German folk I've met have pretty major gripes about their government.
However, I've never visited Andorra or Sweden...yet anyways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31430418</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1268213040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In theory you're right.  In practice, this will get you crucified politically.  Here's my related post - as a summary, Jim Bunning did the exact thing you describe (trying to follow PayGo) and nearly all news coverage has been negative.  The trick here is, he isn't running for re-election so he doesn't care if he operates on principle instead of future votes.</p><p>The problem is whomever speaks first usually gets repeated, while updates and corrections get passed on more slowly, if at all.</p><p><a href="http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1577878&amp;cid=31430344" title="slashdot.org">http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1577878&amp;cid=31430344</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In theory you 're right .
In practice , this will get you crucified politically .
Here 's my related post - as a summary , Jim Bunning did the exact thing you describe ( trying to follow PayGo ) and nearly all news coverage has been negative .
The trick here is , he is n't running for re-election so he does n't care if he operates on principle instead of future votes.The problem is whomever speaks first usually gets repeated , while updates and corrections get passed on more slowly , if at all.http : //politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1577878&amp;cid = 31430344 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In theory you're right.
In practice, this will get you crucified politically.
Here's my related post - as a summary, Jim Bunning did the exact thing you describe (trying to follow PayGo) and nearly all news coverage has been negative.
The trick here is, he isn't running for re-election so he doesn't care if he operates on principle instead of future votes.The problem is whomever speaks first usually gets repeated, while updates and corrections get passed on more slowly, if at all.http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1577878&amp;cid=31430344 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427946</id>
	<title>Reality Check?</title>
	<author>chilvence</author>
	<datestamp>1268244540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Today, the US economy "manufactures" IP.</p></div><p>I hate to burst your bubble, but half of the 'IP' manufactured in the US be it music, television, or software probably isn't as much intrest in the international market as you would like to believe, outside of Europe and Australia. Even in other countries where it does strike an intrest, I have seen time and time again that it is distributed by extremely organised, entrenched and even socially accepted, high street located 'pirate' outlets, in nearly every country in SE Asia, the Middle East, probably India as well although I can't personally vouch for that. Most people in these places would balk at paying prices that the US Domestic market would, so as we have seen in China with the case of MS, they have had to lower the prices down to human levels just to be even taken seriously!</p><p>Really, the only places that would see more eye to eye with the US way is Europe and Australia, and thats probably more to do with cultural linkage than any actual moral solidarity. That is a fragile relationship though, and if the US decides to get stroppy and demand too much of those markets, when it hasn't even begun to find a good way to target the rest of the world with fairer prices, then it could all go tits up! The average person I could ask already sees US copyright/patents/DRM as a convoluted mess, and would resent having it forced upon them by any government that is supposed to be working in their intrests and not those a few bean counters in hollywood who have worked out how to prolong the gravy train!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Today , the US economy " manufactures " IP.I hate to burst your bubble , but half of the 'IP ' manufactured in the US be it music , television , or software probably is n't as much intrest in the international market as you would like to believe , outside of Europe and Australia .
Even in other countries where it does strike an intrest , I have seen time and time again that it is distributed by extremely organised , entrenched and even socially accepted , high street located 'pirate ' outlets , in nearly every country in SE Asia , the Middle East , probably India as well although I ca n't personally vouch for that .
Most people in these places would balk at paying prices that the US Domestic market would , so as we have seen in China with the case of MS , they have had to lower the prices down to human levels just to be even taken seriously ! Really , the only places that would see more eye to eye with the US way is Europe and Australia , and thats probably more to do with cultural linkage than any actual moral solidarity .
That is a fragile relationship though , and if the US decides to get stroppy and demand too much of those markets , when it has n't even begun to find a good way to target the rest of the world with fairer prices , then it could all go tits up !
The average person I could ask already sees US copyright/patents/DRM as a convoluted mess , and would resent having it forced upon them by any government that is supposed to be working in their intrests and not those a few bean counters in hollywood who have worked out how to prolong the gravy train !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today, the US economy "manufactures" IP.I hate to burst your bubble, but half of the 'IP' manufactured in the US be it music, television, or software probably isn't as much intrest in the international market as you would like to believe, outside of Europe and Australia.
Even in other countries where it does strike an intrest, I have seen time and time again that it is distributed by extremely organised, entrenched and even socially accepted, high street located 'pirate' outlets, in nearly every country in SE Asia, the Middle East, probably India as well although I can't personally vouch for that.
Most people in these places would balk at paying prices that the US Domestic market would, so as we have seen in China with the case of MS, they have had to lower the prices down to human levels just to be even taken seriously!Really, the only places that would see more eye to eye with the US way is Europe and Australia, and thats probably more to do with cultural linkage than any actual moral solidarity.
That is a fragile relationship though, and if the US decides to get stroppy and demand too much of those markets, when it hasn't even begun to find a good way to target the rest of the world with fairer prices, then it could all go tits up!
The average person I could ask already sees US copyright/patents/DRM as a convoluted mess, and would resent having it forced upon them by any government that is supposed to be working in their intrests and not those a few bean counters in hollywood who have worked out how to prolong the gravy train!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428712</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1268248440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.</p><p>Didn't you get the memo?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>War is peace .
Freedom is slavery .
Ignorance is strength.Did n't you get the memo ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.Didn't you get the memo?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427814</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</id>
	<title>And that is why..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am moving to Germany next month! seriously.</p><p>The sheep here just dont care what the government takes from them so long as it's "for the children".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am moving to Germany next month !
seriously.The sheep here just dont care what the government takes from them so long as it 's " for the children " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am moving to Germany next month!
seriously.The sheep here just dont care what the government takes from them so long as it's "for the children".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426782</id>
	<title>Re:And that is why..</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268239500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good luck with that. It&rsquo;s far from over. Our government (which is NOT the EU) still is very much for a totalitarian surveillance state. And the &ldquo;terrorists&rdquo; still are the excuse deus ex machina of law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck with that .
It    s far from over .
Our government ( which is NOT the EU ) still is very much for a totalitarian surveillance state .
And the    terrorists    still are the excuse deus ex machina of law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck with that.
It’s far from over.
Our government (which is NOT the EU) still is very much for a totalitarian surveillance state.
And the “terrorists” still are the excuse deus ex machina of law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433668</id>
	<title>Re:Additional Information</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1268233140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aren't the MEPs directly elected in elections?<br>I thought it was the council that was picked by the national governments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are n't the MEPs directly elected in elections ? I thought it was the council that was picked by the national governments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aren't the MEPs directly elected in elections?I thought it was the council that was picked by the national governments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427356</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free? Dream on. You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.</i></p><p>Yeah:</p><p>GDP (Nominal):<br>EU - US $14.51 trillion (2009 est.)<br>US - US $14.266 trillion (2009)</p><p>Population:<br>EU - 491,582,852 (July 2009 est.)<br>US - 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.)</p><p>Sorry buddy, the days are over when the US could unilaterally dictate it's whims to a fractured Europe.  The EU has already surpassed the US in size and economic power, and the odds are very good that trend will continue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US is n't going to be passed around for free ?
Dream on .
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.Yeah : GDP ( Nominal ) : EU - US $ 14.51 trillion ( 2009 est .
) US - US $ 14.266 trillion ( 2009 ) Population : EU - 491,582,852 ( July 2009 est .
) US - 307,212,123 ( July 2009 est .
) Sorry buddy , the days are over when the US could unilaterally dictate it 's whims to a fractured Europe .
The EU has already surpassed the US in size and economic power , and the odds are very good that trend will continue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?
Dream on.
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people.Yeah:GDP (Nominal):EU - US $14.51 trillion (2009 est.
)US - US $14.266 trillion (2009)Population:EU - 491,582,852 (July 2009 est.
)US - 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.
)Sorry buddy, the days are over when the US could unilaterally dictate it's whims to a fractured Europe.
The EU has already surpassed the US in size and economic power, and the odds are very good that trend will continue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428494</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>c</author>
	<datestamp>1268247360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Data isn't up yet though.</p><p>You mean this?</p><p><a href="http://votewatch.eu/cx\_vote\_details.php?order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;order=ASC&amp;last\_order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;id\_act=456&amp;vers=2" title="votewatch.eu">http://votewatch.eu/cx\_vote\_details.php?order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;order=ASC&amp;last\_order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;id\_act=456&amp;vers=2</a> [votewatch.eu]</p><p>So, against were all from a couple of groups in the UK and the Netherlands. Coincidence?</p><p>c.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Data is n't up yet though.You mean this ? http : //votewatch.eu/cx \ _vote \ _details.php ? order \ _by = euro \ _vot \ _valoare&amp;order = ASC&amp;last \ _order \ _by = euro \ _vot \ _valoare&amp;id \ _act = 456&amp;vers = 2 [ votewatch.eu ] So , against were all from a couple of groups in the UK and the Netherlands .
Coincidence ? c .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Data isn't up yet though.You mean this?http://votewatch.eu/cx\_vote\_details.php?order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;order=ASC&amp;last\_order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;id\_act=456&amp;vers=2 [votewatch.eu]So, against were all from a couple of groups in the UK and the Netherlands.
Coincidence?c.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428406</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268247000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if I just don't give a damn anymore? What if I've already realized that life is too short to spend fighting a war I'll never even put a dent in? What if I've already come to the conclusion that the best I can do is stay off the radar and as disconnected from the power pyramid as possible, and try to enjoy life the best I can?</p><p>I'm a good person. I don't lie, steal, or cheat, and I don't ask anything of anybody except plain old fashioned respect. You certainly can't say the same of the average voter. The voter WANTS something from other people, that's why he votes. The voter belives in controlling others through force. I don't. Does that make you angry?</p><p>You're not going to like this: I don't vote, and I'm proud of it. Damn proud of it. Proud that I don't participate in a process I consider immoral and unjust by default. Proud that I don't tell anyone how to behave, how to spend their money, or what ideals to believe in. That's your job. You're the one who wants something from me, not the other way around. You're the one at the voting booth.</p><p>As one who believes in the process of organized coercion, you must be fuming mad by now. I don't give a damn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if I just do n't give a damn anymore ?
What if I 've already realized that life is too short to spend fighting a war I 'll never even put a dent in ?
What if I 've already come to the conclusion that the best I can do is stay off the radar and as disconnected from the power pyramid as possible , and try to enjoy life the best I can ? I 'm a good person .
I do n't lie , steal , or cheat , and I do n't ask anything of anybody except plain old fashioned respect .
You certainly ca n't say the same of the average voter .
The voter WANTS something from other people , that 's why he votes .
The voter belives in controlling others through force .
I do n't .
Does that make you angry ? You 're not going to like this : I do n't vote , and I 'm proud of it .
Damn proud of it .
Proud that I do n't participate in a process I consider immoral and unjust by default .
Proud that I do n't tell anyone how to behave , how to spend their money , or what ideals to believe in .
That 's your job .
You 're the one who wants something from me , not the other way around .
You 're the one at the voting booth.As one who believes in the process of organized coercion , you must be fuming mad by now .
I do n't give a damn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if I just don't give a damn anymore?
What if I've already realized that life is too short to spend fighting a war I'll never even put a dent in?
What if I've already come to the conclusion that the best I can do is stay off the radar and as disconnected from the power pyramid as possible, and try to enjoy life the best I can?I'm a good person.
I don't lie, steal, or cheat, and I don't ask anything of anybody except plain old fashioned respect.
You certainly can't say the same of the average voter.
The voter WANTS something from other people, that's why he votes.
The voter belives in controlling others through force.
I don't.
Does that make you angry?You're not going to like this: I don't vote, and I'm proud of it.
Damn proud of it.
Proud that I don't participate in a process I consider immoral and unjust by default.
Proud that I don't tell anyone how to behave, how to spend their money, or what ideals to believe in.
That's your job.
You're the one who wants something from me, not the other way around.
You're the one at the voting booth.As one who believes in the process of organized coercion, you must be fuming mad by now.
I don't give a damn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31431246</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>LatencyKills</author>
	<datestamp>1268217000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The solution to that is to absolutely disallow unrelated legislation to be lumped together in the same bill, not anonymous voting.  I'd personally like to see bills limited to, say, 100,000 words, the length of a fair book.  Anything longer is insulting to the citizenry, and most should be well under 1000 words.  If what you want accomplished can't be done in a 1000 words, you're probably biting off more than you can chew (note: see health care legislation).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution to that is to absolutely disallow unrelated legislation to be lumped together in the same bill , not anonymous voting .
I 'd personally like to see bills limited to , say , 100,000 words , the length of a fair book .
Anything longer is insulting to the citizenry , and most should be well under 1000 words .
If what you want accomplished ca n't be done in a 1000 words , you 're probably biting off more than you can chew ( note : see health care legislation ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution to that is to absolutely disallow unrelated legislation to be lumped together in the same bill, not anonymous voting.
I'd personally like to see bills limited to, say, 100,000 words, the length of a fair book.
Anything longer is insulting to the citizenry, and most should be well under 1000 words.
If what you want accomplished can't be done in a 1000 words, you're probably biting off more than you can chew (note: see health care legislation).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433920</id>
	<title>Re:It's sad to see</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1268235660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years. U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Is is US ultra-nationalist propaganda, please stop spreading it.<br> <br>

The bastion of US freedom, your constitution is based upon a document of British freedom, the Magna Carta written some 700 years earlier.

Europe has had a lot more freedom for a lot longer then the US. Brittan was a constitutional monarchy since 1688, limitations on the power of the crown in England were placed on it in 1215 by the Magna Carta. Europe started abolishing slavery in 1102 with the first complete abolition in Iceland in 1172. Most European states saw the separation of church and state long before the US, whilst you can drag up Nazism against Europe, we can drag up McCarthyism against America but in reality both are extreme and limited examples against the trend.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years .
U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy .
Is is US ultra-nationalist propaganda , please stop spreading it .
The bastion of US freedom , your constitution is based upon a document of British freedom , the Magna Carta written some 700 years earlier .
Europe has had a lot more freedom for a lot longer then the US .
Brittan was a constitutional monarchy since 1688 , limitations on the power of the crown in England were placed on it in 1215 by the Magna Carta .
Europe started abolishing slavery in 1102 with the first complete abolition in Iceland in 1172 .
Most European states saw the separation of church and state long before the US , whilst you can drag up Nazism against Europe , we can drag up McCarthyism against America but in reality both are extreme and limited examples against the trend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years.
U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy.
Is is US ultra-nationalist propaganda, please stop spreading it.
The bastion of US freedom, your constitution is based upon a document of British freedom, the Magna Carta written some 700 years earlier.
Europe has had a lot more freedom for a lot longer then the US.
Brittan was a constitutional monarchy since 1688, limitations on the power of the crown in England were placed on it in 1215 by the Magna Carta.
Europe started abolishing slavery in 1102 with the first complete abolition in Iceland in 1172.
Most European states saw the separation of church and state long before the US, whilst you can drag up Nazism against Europe, we can drag up McCarthyism against America but in reality both are extreme and limited examples against the trend.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427306</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Screw Creative Commons. If you're really serious, you'll make it kopimi.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Screw Creative Commons .
If you 're really serious , you 'll make it kopimi .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screw Creative Commons.
If you're really serious, you'll make it kopimi.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428670</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268248200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No offence meant and I get your point, but I must say that I find that reasoning quite amusing and ironic, given that your country was founded by people who were not exactly happy with the way things were in their native country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No offence meant and I get your point , but I must say that I find that reasoning quite amusing and ironic , given that your country was founded by people who were not exactly happy with the way things were in their native country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No offence meant and I get your point, but I must say that I find that reasoning quite amusing and ironic, given that your country was founded by people who were not exactly happy with the way things were in their native country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428358</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM</p></div><p>like the American founders?
<br> <br>
Abstract idea + harsh morality + personal responsibility = +5 <br>
So you gamed the moderator system. What did it get you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>look you spineless assholes : if your society is going south , stay there and fight for it .
... you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMlike the American founders ?
Abstract idea + harsh morality + personal responsibility = + 5 So you gamed the moderator system .
What did it get you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it.
... you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMlike the American founders?
Abstract idea + harsh morality + personal responsibility = +5 
So you gamed the moderator system.
What did it get you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</id>
	<title>Good.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good to know that the voice of the people is being heard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426604</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It isn't creative commons-licensed (yet), but you can get all of my music for free on last.fm:</p><p><a href="http://www.last.fm/music/pojut" title="www.last.fm" rel="nofollow">http://www.last.fm/music/pojut</a> [www.last.fm]</p><p>You can also grab a couple tracks from my website for free: <a href="http://www.livingwithanerd.com/Music" title="livingwithanerd.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.livingwithanerd.com/Music</a> [livingwithanerd.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is n't creative commons-licensed ( yet ) , but you can get all of my music for free on last.fm : http : //www.last.fm/music/pojut [ www.last.fm ] You can also grab a couple tracks from my website for free : http : //www.livingwithanerd.com/Music [ livingwithanerd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It isn't creative commons-licensed (yet), but you can get all of my music for free on last.fm:http://www.last.fm/music/pojut [www.last.fm]You can also grab a couple tracks from my website for free: http://www.livingwithanerd.com/Music [livingwithanerd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433940</id>
	<title>Re:your move, media corporations</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1268235840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <b>the</b> bertelsmann, <b>the</b> time warner, just fucking <b>the</b>, <b>the</b>, <b>the</b> you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits. WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE. <b>THE</b></p></div> </blockquote><p>


Given the locale of the subject matter, it seemed appropriate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the bertelsmann , the time warner , just fucking the , the , the you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits .
WE DO N'T NEED YOU ANYMORE .
THE Given the locale of the subject matter , it seemed appropriate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> the bertelsmann, the time warner, just fucking the, the, the you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits.
WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE.
THE 


Given the locale of the subject matter, it seemed appropriate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427064</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The alternative is politicians who can't be held responsible for their actions.<br> <br>

Which is worse: politicians that can be cowed by the media, or politicians who aren't answerable to the media at all?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The alternative is politicians who ca n't be held responsible for their actions .
Which is worse : politicians that can be cowed by the media , or politicians who are n't answerable to the media at all ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The alternative is politicians who can't be held responsible for their actions.
Which is worse: politicians that can be cowed by the media, or politicians who aren't answerable to the media at all?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426728</id>
	<title>they do have power.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1268239200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>since lisbon treaty last year, Eu parliament has the power. they canceled the swift agreement with usa that allowed cia, nsa to gather info about swift users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>since lisbon treaty last year , Eu parliament has the power .
they canceled the swift agreement with usa that allowed cia , nsa to gather info about swift users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>since lisbon treaty last year, Eu parliament has the power.
they canceled the swift agreement with usa that allowed cia, nsa to gather info about swift users.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428274</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US has three hundred million people. Not "nearly half a billion". The ones with actually half a billion people, that's the European Union.  And that's precisely why it matters. Even the EU's total GDP is quite a bit larger, though per person its worse, it still means the EU as a whole can't be ignored or just overruled / pressured into submission, even by the other world powers.</p><p>As for taxes and companies collapsing due to a communist economy or whatever you're trying to outline here and the pressure for the government to tax other things to compensate, that's not even remotely what would happen. Pirate parties mostly just want to go back to sane copyright and patents as they used to be. A monopoly on reproduction is granted for a short duration during which artists and companies can make a profit, after that, things belong to the public - because, in fact, the public can't have an interest in letting itself be exploited endlessly by rights it itself grants.And no criminalizing of non-commercial uses or sharing. That does not mean nobody gets paid by any means. This is simply how it used to be, in fact, before the most recent times... but these days, it seems to make you a communist pirate who destroys the economy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US has three hundred million people .
Not " nearly half a billion " .
The ones with actually half a billion people , that 's the European Union .
And that 's precisely why it matters .
Even the EU 's total GDP is quite a bit larger , though per person its worse , it still means the EU as a whole ca n't be ignored or just overruled / pressured into submission , even by the other world powers.As for taxes and companies collapsing due to a communist economy or whatever you 're trying to outline here and the pressure for the government to tax other things to compensate , that 's not even remotely what would happen .
Pirate parties mostly just want to go back to sane copyright and patents as they used to be .
A monopoly on reproduction is granted for a short duration during which artists and companies can make a profit , after that , things belong to the public - because , in fact , the public ca n't have an interest in letting itself be exploited endlessly by rights it itself grants.And no criminalizing of non-commercial uses or sharing .
That does not mean nobody gets paid by any means .
This is simply how it used to be , in fact , before the most recent times... but these days , it seems to make you a communist pirate who destroys the economy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US has three hundred million people.
Not "nearly half a billion".
The ones with actually half a billion people, that's the European Union.
And that's precisely why it matters.
Even the EU's total GDP is quite a bit larger, though per person its worse, it still means the EU as a whole can't be ignored or just overruled / pressured into submission, even by the other world powers.As for taxes and companies collapsing due to a communist economy or whatever you're trying to outline here and the pressure for the government to tax other things to compensate, that's not even remotely what would happen.
Pirate parties mostly just want to go back to sane copyright and patents as they used to be.
A monopoly on reproduction is granted for a short duration during which artists and companies can make a profit, after that, things belong to the public - because, in fact, the public can't have an interest in letting itself be exploited endlessly by rights it itself grants.And no criminalizing of non-commercial uses or sharing.
That does not mean nobody gets paid by any means.
This is simply how it used to be, in fact, before the most recent times... but these days, it seems to make you a communist pirate who destroys the economy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429518</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Husgaard</author>
	<datestamp>1268252160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><em>When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.</em></p></div> </blockquote><p>
Usually this is the case, as almost nobody is interested in EU-politics. But ACTA has become an exception.
</p><p>
Please see this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trarJtxixM8" title="youtube.com">short speech</a> [youtube.com] from Christian Engstr&#246;m from the Pirate Party in the EU-Parliament debate about this resolution. He welcomes the attention the EU got in the general public although it is because people are upset.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When in the EU something happens , all become aware of it only as a post factum , when it is too late to influence anything .
Usually this is the case , as almost nobody is interested in EU-politics .
But ACTA has become an exception .
Please see this short speech [ youtube.com ] from Christian Engstr   m from the Pirate Party in the EU-Parliament debate about this resolution .
He welcomes the attention the EU got in the general public although it is because people are upset .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.
Usually this is the case, as almost nobody is interested in EU-politics.
But ACTA has become an exception.
Please see this short speech [youtube.com] from Christian Engström from the Pirate Party in the EU-Parliament debate about this resolution.
He welcomes the attention the EU got in the general public although it is because people are upset.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428298</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Always running away is an ignorant strategy. Then again, always standing your ground is also an ignorant strategy. Sometimes it's just smarter to pack up and move to somewhere else than staying where you are. Acting like that's always the wrong choice just means you're operating on guts rather than brains. You're welcome to call me a spineless coward, that's yet another thing I'm not afraid of, appearing not to be a macho internet tough guy. If you want to see me defending my convictions, try breaking into my house at night. Fight or flight. Never forget those are the two options, other than death.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Always running away is an ignorant strategy .
Then again , always standing your ground is also an ignorant strategy .
Sometimes it 's just smarter to pack up and move to somewhere else than staying where you are .
Acting like that 's always the wrong choice just means you 're operating on guts rather than brains .
You 're welcome to call me a spineless coward , that 's yet another thing I 'm not afraid of , appearing not to be a macho internet tough guy .
If you want to see me defending my convictions , try breaking into my house at night .
Fight or flight .
Never forget those are the two options , other than death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always running away is an ignorant strategy.
Then again, always standing your ground is also an ignorant strategy.
Sometimes it's just smarter to pack up and move to somewhere else than staying where you are.
Acting like that's always the wrong choice just means you're operating on guts rather than brains.
You're welcome to call me a spineless coward, that's yet another thing I'm not afraid of, appearing not to be a macho internet tough guy.
If you want to see me defending my convictions, try breaking into my house at night.
Fight or flight.
Never forget those are the two options, other than death.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428462</id>
	<title>Re:your move, media corporations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268247240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It all boils down to this, the medium through which data/media is spread to the population, first artists travelled to spread their art and gain money, after that came the records, in various formats, along with television and radio, easily controlled market, after that the internet appeared, through the pipes anyone had access to  anything, the record companies, televisions and radios became redundant, media that you can copy over and over is here to stay, they have to adapt or disappear, if the mistake called prohibition should have taught them anything is that if they'll keep pushing, we'll go underground and wait for them to disappear. The US and other ACTA adhering countries are doing nothing more than feeding them rope, and it's not a lifeline.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It all boils down to this , the medium through which data/media is spread to the population , first artists travelled to spread their art and gain money , after that came the records , in various formats , along with television and radio , easily controlled market , after that the internet appeared , through the pipes anyone had access to anything , the record companies , televisions and radios became redundant , media that you can copy over and over is here to stay , they have to adapt or disappear , if the mistake called prohibition should have taught them anything is that if they 'll keep pushing , we 'll go underground and wait for them to disappear .
The US and other ACTA adhering countries are doing nothing more than feeding them rope , and it 's not a lifeline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It all boils down to this, the medium through which data/media is spread to the population, first artists travelled to spread their art and gain money, after that came the records, in various formats, along with television and radio, easily controlled market, after that the internet appeared, through the pipes anyone had access to  anything, the record companies, televisions and radios became redundant, media that you can copy over and over is here to stay, they have to adapt or disappear, if the mistake called prohibition should have taught them anything is that if they'll keep pushing, we'll go underground and wait for them to disappear.
The US and other ACTA adhering countries are doing nothing more than feeding them rope, and it's not a lifeline.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426954</id>
	<title>Germany?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like Germany very much, but it's not a destination I'd recommend *specifically* for avoiding stupid (IT) regulation.</p><p>Before you pack up your wagon, google around a bit for the recent (~2 years) data laws passed in Germany. As a brief taste, it's apparently ok for the government to install spyware on their citizens' computers, but not okay for citizens to use network snooping (aka diagnostics) software.</p><p>Not than anywhere else is really a lot better. (Except maybe Iceland, soon?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like Germany very much , but it 's not a destination I 'd recommend * specifically * for avoiding stupid ( IT ) regulation.Before you pack up your wagon , google around a bit for the recent ( ~ 2 years ) data laws passed in Germany .
As a brief taste , it 's apparently ok for the government to install spyware on their citizens ' computers , but not okay for citizens to use network snooping ( aka diagnostics ) software.Not than anywhere else is really a lot better .
( Except maybe Iceland , soon ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like Germany very much, but it's not a destination I'd recommend *specifically* for avoiding stupid (IT) regulation.Before you pack up your wagon, google around a bit for the recent (~2 years) data laws passed in Germany.
As a brief taste, it's apparently ok for the government to install spyware on their citizens' computers, but not okay for citizens to use network snooping (aka diagnostics) software.Not than anywhere else is really a lot better.
(Except maybe Iceland, soon?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426556</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>K. S. Kyosuke</author>
	<datestamp>1268238360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least until the European Commission finally ends this travesty called "Democracy in the EU"...</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least until the European Commission finally ends this travesty called " Democracy in the EU " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least until the European Commission finally ends this travesty called "Democracy in the EU"...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429160</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1268250360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
If it were just corporations vs. pirates, I wouldn't worry about it.  However, it's a matter of what corporations are allowed to do to fight piracy, and how it affects innocent people, and the harshness of punishments for pirates.  If corporations have the power to shut down my internet access, that's bad, particularly if they can do so without due process.  If corporations have the power to conduct searches and discovery without judicial oversight, again, that's bad.  As a general historical rule, if power can be abused it will be, and corporations have none of the accountability (however slender) that governments have.
</p><p>
If health care reform is done right in the US, it will reduce national health-care costs.  Every developed country besides the US has some form of universal health care, they all pay a lot less for health care than the US per capita, and most of them have better public health numbers.  Being a patriotic citizen, I reject any claim that the US is somehow uniquely unable to do something every other developed country has done, and so I expect health care costs in the US to go down over time, while the general quality of care goes up.
</p><p>
Moreover, pirates don't pay taxes on what they don't buy, but they do pay taxes on what they do buy.  If I spend $50 on a game, I get taxed on that $50.  If somebody else pirates it and spends $50 on something else, they get taxed on that.  There is no tax problem.
</p><p>
To understand what's going on, you have to realize that large corporations can be remarkably lacking in insight.  Many of them are focusing on piracy rather than sales.  They don't have a financial problem with too many pirates, although they might well have one with too few sales.  Apple has shown that, given a convenient way to buy music at a reasonable price, a very large number of people will do that rather than pirate it.  Instead, corporations are sticking to an outdated business model (which corporations are very good at doing; check what happens in periods of technological change), and trying to push through draconian laws rather than adapt (and perhaps push for more reasonable changes in the laws).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it were just corporations vs. pirates , I would n't worry about it .
However , it 's a matter of what corporations are allowed to do to fight piracy , and how it affects innocent people , and the harshness of punishments for pirates .
If corporations have the power to shut down my internet access , that 's bad , particularly if they can do so without due process .
If corporations have the power to conduct searches and discovery without judicial oversight , again , that 's bad .
As a general historical rule , if power can be abused it will be , and corporations have none of the accountability ( however slender ) that governments have .
If health care reform is done right in the US , it will reduce national health-care costs .
Every developed country besides the US has some form of universal health care , they all pay a lot less for health care than the US per capita , and most of them have better public health numbers .
Being a patriotic citizen , I reject any claim that the US is somehow uniquely unable to do something every other developed country has done , and so I expect health care costs in the US to go down over time , while the general quality of care goes up .
Moreover , pirates do n't pay taxes on what they do n't buy , but they do pay taxes on what they do buy .
If I spend $ 50 on a game , I get taxed on that $ 50 .
If somebody else pirates it and spends $ 50 on something else , they get taxed on that .
There is no tax problem .
To understand what 's going on , you have to realize that large corporations can be remarkably lacking in insight .
Many of them are focusing on piracy rather than sales .
They do n't have a financial problem with too many pirates , although they might well have one with too few sales .
Apple has shown that , given a convenient way to buy music at a reasonable price , a very large number of people will do that rather than pirate it .
Instead , corporations are sticking to an outdated business model ( which corporations are very good at doing ; check what happens in periods of technological change ) , and trying to push through draconian laws rather than adapt ( and perhaps push for more reasonable changes in the laws ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
If it were just corporations vs. pirates, I wouldn't worry about it.
However, it's a matter of what corporations are allowed to do to fight piracy, and how it affects innocent people, and the harshness of punishments for pirates.
If corporations have the power to shut down my internet access, that's bad, particularly if they can do so without due process.
If corporations have the power to conduct searches and discovery without judicial oversight, again, that's bad.
As a general historical rule, if power can be abused it will be, and corporations have none of the accountability (however slender) that governments have.
If health care reform is done right in the US, it will reduce national health-care costs.
Every developed country besides the US has some form of universal health care, they all pay a lot less for health care than the US per capita, and most of them have better public health numbers.
Being a patriotic citizen, I reject any claim that the US is somehow uniquely unable to do something every other developed country has done, and so I expect health care costs in the US to go down over time, while the general quality of care goes up.
Moreover, pirates don't pay taxes on what they don't buy, but they do pay taxes on what they do buy.
If I spend $50 on a game, I get taxed on that $50.
If somebody else pirates it and spends $50 on something else, they get taxed on that.
There is no tax problem.
To understand what's going on, you have to realize that large corporations can be remarkably lacking in insight.
Many of them are focusing on piracy rather than sales.
They don't have a financial problem with too many pirates, although they might well have one with too few sales.
Apple has shown that, given a convenient way to buy music at a reasonable price, a very large number of people will do that rather than pirate it.
Instead, corporations are sticking to an outdated business model (which corporations are very good at doing; check what happens in periods of technological change), and trying to push through draconian laws rather than adapt (and perhaps push for more reasonable changes in the laws).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428362</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it. fleeing means that you don't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions, and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictions</p></div><p>Can you tell that to Christians living in Afghanistan with a straight face?</p><p>Staying and fighting is only meaningful if there is any possibility that you may actually win. In longer term, if one is willing to sacrifice oneself for the good of the others (which is <em>not</em> something that should be demanded or expected from everyone!), it still only makes sense if the sacrifice has any chance of buying victory.</p><p>And this is only possible if there are sufficiently many people fighting alongside you, or if there is a good chance to recruit more to your cause. If, instead, the supermajority is fiercely opposed (or even just decidedly neutral) with respect to the cause you're fighting for, the war is already lost. Trying to fight it would be purely masochistic, with pain and struggle for both oneself and others for no purpose at all.</p><p>Even if the fight is possible to win in the end - just very hard - as noted above, it is neither feasible nor moral to require every single person to ruin their life for the sake of such a fight, even for the cause that is just.</p><p>Which is the case in the American society today, I cannot tell; this is something for Americans themselves to figure out. But you alone are not a judge, either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>look you spineless assholes : if your society is going south , stay there and fight for it .
fleeing means that you do n't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions , and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictionsCan you tell that to Christians living in Afghanistan with a straight face ? Staying and fighting is only meaningful if there is any possibility that you may actually win .
In longer term , if one is willing to sacrifice oneself for the good of the others ( which is not something that should be demanded or expected from everyone !
) , it still only makes sense if the sacrifice has any chance of buying victory.And this is only possible if there are sufficiently many people fighting alongside you , or if there is a good chance to recruit more to your cause .
If , instead , the supermajority is fiercely opposed ( or even just decidedly neutral ) with respect to the cause you 're fighting for , the war is already lost .
Trying to fight it would be purely masochistic , with pain and struggle for both oneself and others for no purpose at all.Even if the fight is possible to win in the end - just very hard - as noted above , it is neither feasible nor moral to require every single person to ruin their life for the sake of such a fight , even for the cause that is just.Which is the case in the American society today , I can not tell ; this is something for Americans themselves to figure out .
But you alone are not a judge , either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it.
fleeing means that you don't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions, and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictionsCan you tell that to Christians living in Afghanistan with a straight face?Staying and fighting is only meaningful if there is any possibility that you may actually win.
In longer term, if one is willing to sacrifice oneself for the good of the others (which is not something that should be demanded or expected from everyone!
), it still only makes sense if the sacrifice has any chance of buying victory.And this is only possible if there are sufficiently many people fighting alongside you, or if there is a good chance to recruit more to your cause.
If, instead, the supermajority is fiercely opposed (or even just decidedly neutral) with respect to the cause you're fighting for, the war is already lost.
Trying to fight it would be purely masochistic, with pain and struggle for both oneself and others for no purpose at all.Even if the fight is possible to win in the end - just very hard - as noted above, it is neither feasible nor moral to require every single person to ruin their life for the sake of such a fight, even for the cause that is just.Which is the case in the American society today, I cannot tell; this is something for Americans themselves to figure out.
But you alone are not a judge, either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31430494</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268213340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracy</i></p><p>Didn't that line come from Star Wars: Episode I?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracyDid n't that line come from Star Wars : Episode I ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracyDidn't that line come from Star Wars: Episode I?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428238</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Jaysyn</author>
	<datestamp>1268246100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does this include draft dodgers during a crooked, needless war?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this include draft dodgers during a crooked , needless war ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this include draft dodgers during a crooked, needless war?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31432582</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1268224200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The problem is that the *AAs are facing a battle against time.As time goes by, internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware. In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.It's a battle they are (eventually) going to lose to sanity. ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap. They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching, though, so they basically shot themselves in the foot.I await the day 50 y</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that the * AAs are facing a battle against time.As time goes by , internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware .
In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.It 's a battle they are ( eventually ) going to lose to sanity .
ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap .
They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching , though , so they basically shot themselves in the foot.I await the day 50 y</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that the *AAs are facing a battle against time.As time goes by, internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware.
In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.It's a battle they are (eventually) going to lose to sanity.
ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap.
They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching, though, so they basically shot themselves in the foot.I await the day 50 y
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428054</id>
	<title>What does that say about ACTA?</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1268245080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>663 vs 13.</p><p>Remember, the EU parlament is not the US congress. It's not "two parties and a handful of independents". You literally have ALL possible flavors of political opinions represented in there. No matter how you look at it, with the various parties in the parlament, this means that parties from all over the political spectrum voted AGAINST it. From Conservative to Liberal, from Socialist to Libertarian, from left to right, up to down and in to out. That's a result you would expect for votes held on topics that no sane person could shoot down, like, say, "Do we want to give ourselves more money?" And even there I'm not so convinced it would be this clean cut, given that there are actually a few in there that take the whole deal serious.</p><p>Sure, a few of those 663 votes will be votes against the council and their "we decide, you shut up" stance towards the parlament, and given the chance to give them the finger, a few MoPs certainly took the opportunity. But my guess is for such a reaction, ACTA is too important. This ain't the decision on the mandatory size of eggs or the shade of green a cucumber has to have to be a grade A. We're talking about a treaty that would affect every single EU citizen, and of course every single EU corporation that even remotely deals with copyright. I doubt many would use just this vote to show their digital 4 to the council.</p><p>So what this vote shows us is that pretty much ALL parlament is against the treaty. No matter what party. No matter what political position. No matter their opinion on other issues. They ALL consider it bad enough to object that this is dealt with behind closed curtains.</p><p>So my question would be, why was the council and the negotiators for it? No matter what political party you belong to, you pretty much had to be against it... at least if your political point of view was the deciding factor, not the one of the person slipping greens in your pockets...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>663 vs 13.Remember , the EU parlament is not the US congress .
It 's not " two parties and a handful of independents " .
You literally have ALL possible flavors of political opinions represented in there .
No matter how you look at it , with the various parties in the parlament , this means that parties from all over the political spectrum voted AGAINST it .
From Conservative to Liberal , from Socialist to Libertarian , from left to right , up to down and in to out .
That 's a result you would expect for votes held on topics that no sane person could shoot down , like , say , " Do we want to give ourselves more money ?
" And even there I 'm not so convinced it would be this clean cut , given that there are actually a few in there that take the whole deal serious.Sure , a few of those 663 votes will be votes against the council and their " we decide , you shut up " stance towards the parlament , and given the chance to give them the finger , a few MoPs certainly took the opportunity .
But my guess is for such a reaction , ACTA is too important .
This ai n't the decision on the mandatory size of eggs or the shade of green a cucumber has to have to be a grade A. We 're talking about a treaty that would affect every single EU citizen , and of course every single EU corporation that even remotely deals with copyright .
I doubt many would use just this vote to show their digital 4 to the council.So what this vote shows us is that pretty much ALL parlament is against the treaty .
No matter what party .
No matter what political position .
No matter their opinion on other issues .
They ALL consider it bad enough to object that this is dealt with behind closed curtains.So my question would be , why was the council and the negotiators for it ?
No matter what political party you belong to , you pretty much had to be against it... at least if your political point of view was the deciding factor , not the one of the person slipping greens in your pockets.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>663 vs 13.Remember, the EU parlament is not the US congress.
It's not "two parties and a handful of independents".
You literally have ALL possible flavors of political opinions represented in there.
No matter how you look at it, with the various parties in the parlament, this means that parties from all over the political spectrum voted AGAINST it.
From Conservative to Liberal, from Socialist to Libertarian, from left to right, up to down and in to out.
That's a result you would expect for votes held on topics that no sane person could shoot down, like, say, "Do we want to give ourselves more money?
" And even there I'm not so convinced it would be this clean cut, given that there are actually a few in there that take the whole deal serious.Sure, a few of those 663 votes will be votes against the council and their "we decide, you shut up" stance towards the parlament, and given the chance to give them the finger, a few MoPs certainly took the opportunity.
But my guess is for such a reaction, ACTA is too important.
This ain't the decision on the mandatory size of eggs or the shade of green a cucumber has to have to be a grade A. We're talking about a treaty that would affect every single EU citizen, and of course every single EU corporation that even remotely deals with copyright.
I doubt many would use just this vote to show their digital 4 to the council.So what this vote shows us is that pretty much ALL parlament is against the treaty.
No matter what party.
No matter what political position.
No matter their opinion on other issues.
They ALL consider it bad enough to object that this is dealt with behind closed curtains.So my question would be, why was the council and the negotiators for it?
No matter what political party you belong to, you pretty much had to be against it... at least if your political point of view was the deciding factor, not the one of the person slipping greens in your pockets...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427262</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>another option is to prevent sneaking unrelated crap on top of new bills</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>another option is to prevent sneaking unrelated crap on top of new bills</tokentext>
<sentencetext>another option is to prevent sneaking unrelated crap on top of new bills</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433830</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1268234820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>. You end up with 'flags for orphans' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines.</p></div></blockquote><p>

That is why you need to only allow one issue per vote, yes it creates more work and more bureaucracy but it virtually eliminates the practice of the Consumer Rape bill being passed with the Candy for Orphans bill.<br> <br>

Anonymous votes only makes it easier for politicians to take bribes as their names will not be recorded against anti-consumer or anti-public votes completely eliminating accountability. This would actually help laws/treaties like ACTA to be passed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.
You end up with 'flags for orphans ' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines .
That is why you need to only allow one issue per vote , yes it creates more work and more bureaucracy but it virtually eliminates the practice of the Consumer Rape bill being passed with the Candy for Orphans bill .
Anonymous votes only makes it easier for politicians to take bribes as their names will not be recorded against anti-consumer or anti-public votes completely eliminating accountability .
This would actually help laws/treaties like ACTA to be passed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.
You end up with 'flags for orphans' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines.
That is why you need to only allow one issue per vote, yes it creates more work and more bureaucracy but it virtually eliminates the practice of the Consumer Rape bill being passed with the Candy for Orphans bill.
Anonymous votes only makes it easier for politicians to take bribes as their names will not be recorded against anti-consumer or anti-public votes completely eliminating accountability.
This would actually help laws/treaties like ACTA to be passed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428064</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Xelios</author>
	<datestamp>1268245140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For most countries you'd be right. Countries where peaceful opposition and democratic process still mean something. But some countries are just beyond saving at this point, anything short of open revolt by a large percentage of the population isn't going to make one bit of difference in the face of the lobbying and corruption that's crept in over the years. Good luck getting that started. Taking the fight to the man without millions of people marching behind you is just going to net you a swift trip to prison. <br> <br>

See, the US is one of those countries. So cut your losses, take your lessons learned, make a better life for you and your family elsewhere and make sure the same doesn't happen there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For most countries you 'd be right .
Countries where peaceful opposition and democratic process still mean something .
But some countries are just beyond saving at this point , anything short of open revolt by a large percentage of the population is n't going to make one bit of difference in the face of the lobbying and corruption that 's crept in over the years .
Good luck getting that started .
Taking the fight to the man without millions of people marching behind you is just going to net you a swift trip to prison .
See , the US is one of those countries .
So cut your losses , take your lessons learned , make a better life for you and your family elsewhere and make sure the same does n't happen there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For most countries you'd be right.
Countries where peaceful opposition and democratic process still mean something.
But some countries are just beyond saving at this point, anything short of open revolt by a large percentage of the population isn't going to make one bit of difference in the face of the lobbying and corruption that's crept in over the years.
Good luck getting that started.
Taking the fight to the man without millions of people marching behind you is just going to net you a swift trip to prison.
See, the US is one of those countries.
So cut your losses, take your lessons learned, make a better life for you and your family elsewhere and make sure the same doesn't happen there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31430142</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268211660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?</i></p><p>Since there are very few who will benefit financially from that IP, how are you going to keep the hordes of unemployed parents from picking up their pitchforks and fighting like farmers? Why should anyone not in the entertainment business (and even most in the business) give two shits?</p><p>This crap, especially the fucktardedly long copyright lengths, hurts creativity. If patents lasted as long as copyrights, technology would grind to a halt, which is what you're seeing with culture today. How many remakes of hendrix songs do you hear? How many old TV shows are they making movies of now? Not to mention old comic books like Spider Man and Superman. They don't create new stuff because they don't have to -- there is no longer incentive for creativity, so they don't, just rehashing stuff in their own vaults. If your band was allowed to record a Hendrix song without paying royalties, the reocrd companies would have to find a new guy as talented as Hendrix. If you could rework Spider Man into something new and different without being sued, creative endeavors would be helped, not hindered.</p><p>If copyrights lasted 20 years, why would anybody pirate new stuff when the old, free stuff was truly free?</p><p><i>The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.</i></p><p>Total unprovable bullshit. In fact, study after study has proven the exact opposite -- that music pirates spend more on music than non-pirates. The reason is THEY LOVE MUSIC. But keep spouting that MAFIAA lie and people believe it, but it is patently untrue, and studies back this up.</p><p><i>But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive?</i></p><p>Have you ever heard of Id software or Apogee software? Duke Nukem and Doom were freely given away, and if they weren't I would posit that nobody would have ever heard of them. If your (pardon me) ignorant paradigm is correct, then how does Cory Doctorow get on the New York Times best seller list when all his books are posted free, in dozens of formats, on his own web site? Read <i>Little Brother</i> and you'll have the answer.</p><p><i>Well, I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movement</i></p><p>The question is, since so few Americans have any financial stake in IP, how is the government going to collect any taxes when nobody has a job because they stupidly hammered out those free trade agreements that allow American jobs to be shipped overseas?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US is n't going to be passed around for free ? Since there are very few who will benefit financially from that IP , how are you going to keep the hordes of unemployed parents from picking up their pitchforks and fighting like farmers ?
Why should anyone not in the entertainment business ( and even most in the business ) give two shits ? This crap , especially the fucktardedly long copyright lengths , hurts creativity .
If patents lasted as long as copyrights , technology would grind to a halt , which is what you 're seeing with culture today .
How many remakes of hendrix songs do you hear ?
How many old TV shows are they making movies of now ?
Not to mention old comic books like Spider Man and Superman .
They do n't create new stuff because they do n't have to -- there is no longer incentive for creativity , so they do n't , just rehashing stuff in their own vaults .
If your band was allowed to record a Hendrix song without paying royalties , the reocrd companies would have to find a new guy as talented as Hendrix .
If you could rework Spider Man into something new and different without being sued , creative endeavors would be helped , not hindered.If copyrights lasted 20 years , why would anybody pirate new stuff when the old , free stuff was truly free ? The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays , ever.Total unprovable bullshit .
In fact , study after study has proven the exact opposite -- that music pirates spend more on music than non-pirates .
The reason is THEY LOVE MUSIC .
But keep spouting that MAFIAA lie and people believe it , but it is patently untrue , and studies back this up.But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive ? Have you ever heard of Id software or Apogee software ?
Duke Nukem and Doom were freely given away , and if they were n't I would posit that nobody would have ever heard of them .
If your ( pardon me ) ignorant paradigm is correct , then how does Cory Doctorow get on the New York Times best seller list when all his books are posted free , in dozens of formats , on his own web site ?
Read Little Brother and you 'll have the answer.Well , I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movementThe question is , since so few Americans have any financial stake in IP , how is the government going to collect any taxes when nobody has a job because they stupidly hammered out those free trade agreements that allow American jobs to be shipped overseas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?Since there are very few who will benefit financially from that IP, how are you going to keep the hordes of unemployed parents from picking up their pitchforks and fighting like farmers?
Why should anyone not in the entertainment business (and even most in the business) give two shits?This crap, especially the fucktardedly long copyright lengths, hurts creativity.
If patents lasted as long as copyrights, technology would grind to a halt, which is what you're seeing with culture today.
How many remakes of hendrix songs do you hear?
How many old TV shows are they making movies of now?
Not to mention old comic books like Spider Man and Superman.
They don't create new stuff because they don't have to -- there is no longer incentive for creativity, so they don't, just rehashing stuff in their own vaults.
If your band was allowed to record a Hendrix song without paying royalties, the reocrd companies would have to find a new guy as talented as Hendrix.
If you could rework Spider Man into something new and different without being sued, creative endeavors would be helped, not hindered.If copyrights lasted 20 years, why would anybody pirate new stuff when the old, free stuff was truly free?The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.Total unprovable bullshit.
In fact, study after study has proven the exact opposite -- that music pirates spend more on music than non-pirates.
The reason is THEY LOVE MUSIC.
But keep spouting that MAFIAA lie and people believe it, but it is patently untrue, and studies back this up.But when the software is passed around for free as well will the company survive?Have you ever heard of Id software or Apogee software?
Duke Nukem and Doom were freely given away, and if they weren't I would posit that nobody would have ever heard of them.
If your (pardon me) ignorant paradigm is correct, then how does Cory Doctorow get on the New York Times best seller list when all his books are posted free, in dozens of formats, on his own web site?
Read Little Brother and you'll have the answer.Well, I would start figuring out how the US government is going to continue to get the same tax revenue in the face of a massive piracy movementThe question is, since so few Americans have any financial stake in IP, how is the government going to collect any taxes when nobody has a job because they stupidly hammered out those free trade agreements that allow American jobs to be shipped overseas?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427364</id>
	<title>Re:And that is why..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a German living in Germany I advise you to choose a different country. We're on a steep down-hill path when it comes to freedom. (Again, some might say)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a German living in Germany I advise you to choose a different country .
We 're on a steep down-hill path when it comes to freedom .
( Again , some might say )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a German living in Germany I advise you to choose a different country.
We're on a steep down-hill path when it comes to freedom.
(Again, some might say)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426834</id>
	<title>It's sad to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years. U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years .
U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...how the world has changed in recent 150 years.
U.S. corporations push draconian laws and European countries are praised for standing up to protect freedoms and privacy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428424</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>JockTroll</author>
	<datestamp>1268247060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's nowhere you can move. If you don't stand your ground, soon the whole world will be one happy, corporate, business-friendly, IP-protecting place.</p><p>So, the soap box didn't work because Big Money has bigger boxes. The mail box didn't work either, because trash cans are so convenient when it comes to throw away that useless protest letters from some poor schmuck whose vote doesn't matter anyway. The ballot box will not avail anybody, because the industry has EVERYBODY in its pockets. Forget the jury box, the laws have been bought and paid for.</p><p>All that remains is the ammo box. Are you ready to use it? Are you prepared to kill in the name of digital freedom? Can you look a man in the eye and tell him "I'm sorry, but I must end your life in order to keep the Internet free"?</p><p>If you can't, stay home and learn to love your masters.</p><p>If you can, join the growing numbers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's nowhere you can move .
If you do n't stand your ground , soon the whole world will be one happy , corporate , business-friendly , IP-protecting place.So , the soap box did n't work because Big Money has bigger boxes .
The mail box did n't work either , because trash cans are so convenient when it comes to throw away that useless protest letters from some poor schmuck whose vote does n't matter anyway .
The ballot box will not avail anybody , because the industry has EVERYBODY in its pockets .
Forget the jury box , the laws have been bought and paid for.All that remains is the ammo box .
Are you ready to use it ?
Are you prepared to kill in the name of digital freedom ?
Can you look a man in the eye and tell him " I 'm sorry , but I must end your life in order to keep the Internet free " ? If you ca n't , stay home and learn to love your masters.If you can , join the growing numbers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's nowhere you can move.
If you don't stand your ground, soon the whole world will be one happy, corporate, business-friendly, IP-protecting place.So, the soap box didn't work because Big Money has bigger boxes.
The mail box didn't work either, because trash cans are so convenient when it comes to throw away that useless protest letters from some poor schmuck whose vote doesn't matter anyway.
The ballot box will not avail anybody, because the industry has EVERYBODY in its pockets.
Forget the jury box, the laws have been bought and paid for.All that remains is the ammo box.
Are you ready to use it?
Are you prepared to kill in the name of digital freedom?
Can you look a man in the eye and tell him "I'm sorry, but I must end your life in order to keep the Internet free"?If you can't, stay home and learn to love your masters.If you can, join the growing numbers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426820</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.votewatch.eu/" title="votewatch.eu">http://www.votewatch.eu/</a> [votewatch.eu]</p><p>Data isn't up yet though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.votewatch.eu/ [ votewatch.eu ] Data is n't up yet though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.votewatch.eu/ [votewatch.eu]Data isn't up yet though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426858</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can see how they voted here: http://votewatch.eu/ (the voting of today won't be online before tomorrow, thursday). It shouldn't be hard to reference this to their earlier votes and draw conclusions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can see how they voted here : http : //votewatch.eu/ ( the voting of today wo n't be online before tomorrow , thursday ) .
It should n't be hard to reference this to their earlier votes and draw conclusions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can see how they voted here: http://votewatch.eu/ (the voting of today won't be online before tomorrow, thursday).
It shouldn't be hard to reference this to their earlier votes and draw conclusions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426466</id>
	<title>The 13 votes</title>
	<author>metlin</author>
	<datestamp>1268238060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd be curious to see the political/national/corporate affiliations of the 13 that voted for it. Maybe publish the details, to let people know how these folks were *cough* looking out for their "interests".</p><p>I'm always surprised when a minority votes <b>for</b> something that most unequivocally consider at the very least bad, if not downright evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd be curious to see the political/national/corporate affiliations of the 13 that voted for it .
Maybe publish the details , to let people know how these folks were * cough * looking out for their " interests " .I 'm always surprised when a minority votes for something that most unequivocally consider at the very least bad , if not downright evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd be curious to see the political/national/corporate affiliations of the 13 that voted for it.
Maybe publish the details, to let people know how these folks were *cough* looking out for their "interests".I'm always surprised when a minority votes for something that most unequivocally consider at the very least bad, if not downright evil.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31431450</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268217960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"all of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for."</p><p>Yeh thats been going well, with the Patriot act and DMCA and copyright and "Free speech zones"<br>hasnt it?</p><p>Besides who cares about the opinion of someone who only uses capitals to shout.</p><p>Finally finished your movle eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" all of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for .
" Yeh thats been going well , with the Patriot act and DMCA and copyright and " Free speech zones " hasnt it ? Besides who cares about the opinion of someone who only uses capitals to shout.Finally finished your movle eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"all of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for.
"Yeh thats been going well, with the Patriot act and DMCA and copyright and "Free speech zones"hasnt it?Besides who cares about the opinion of someone who only uses capitals to shout.Finally finished your movle eh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427462</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>rgviza</author>
	<datestamp>1268242440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup... When it comes to creating bigger government and collecting the taxes to pay for it, NOTHING will escape notice, especially piracy. By pirating software you are also dodging the IRS. That makes it a government problem instead of a simple loss of revenue for a company.</p><p>You are dodging sales tax and reducing the income tax paid by the company who you are stealing the software from, since their incoming money is shorted. You are also causing one of the merchants that sells the product to lose revenue, reducing their income taxes paid.</p><p>That's three separate taxes you are dodging on your own and others' behalf.</p><p>The argument "Well I wouldn't have bought it anyway" won't work because you have the software, and didn't pay your taxes on it. If the government decided to prosecute you they could probably argue for tax evasion and copyright violation charges.</p><p>Disclaimer: I am not pro big government or pro taxes, I'm just telling it like it is with regard to how the IRS and the government views piracy. There is this factor working against pirates, as well as the software lobby. The software lobby will get what it wants because of the illegality of copyright violation and loss of tax revenue, the more important factor being the loss of taxes. Stopping tax abuse is at the top of the administrations agenda right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup... When it comes to creating bigger government and collecting the taxes to pay for it , NOTHING will escape notice , especially piracy .
By pirating software you are also dodging the IRS .
That makes it a government problem instead of a simple loss of revenue for a company.You are dodging sales tax and reducing the income tax paid by the company who you are stealing the software from , since their incoming money is shorted .
You are also causing one of the merchants that sells the product to lose revenue , reducing their income taxes paid.That 's three separate taxes you are dodging on your own and others ' behalf.The argument " Well I would n't have bought it anyway " wo n't work because you have the software , and did n't pay your taxes on it .
If the government decided to prosecute you they could probably argue for tax evasion and copyright violation charges.Disclaimer : I am not pro big government or pro taxes , I 'm just telling it like it is with regard to how the IRS and the government views piracy .
There is this factor working against pirates , as well as the software lobby .
The software lobby will get what it wants because of the illegality of copyright violation and loss of tax revenue , the more important factor being the loss of taxes .
Stopping tax abuse is at the top of the administrations agenda right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup... When it comes to creating bigger government and collecting the taxes to pay for it, NOTHING will escape notice, especially piracy.
By pirating software you are also dodging the IRS.
That makes it a government problem instead of a simple loss of revenue for a company.You are dodging sales tax and reducing the income tax paid by the company who you are stealing the software from, since their incoming money is shorted.
You are also causing one of the merchants that sells the product to lose revenue, reducing their income taxes paid.That's three separate taxes you are dodging on your own and others' behalf.The argument "Well I wouldn't have bought it anyway" won't work because you have the software, and didn't pay your taxes on it.
If the government decided to prosecute you they could probably argue for tax evasion and copyright violation charges.Disclaimer: I am not pro big government or pro taxes, I'm just telling it like it is with regard to how the IRS and the government views piracy.
There is this factor working against pirates, as well as the software lobby.
The software lobby will get what it wants because of the illegality of copyright violation and loss of tax revenue, the more important factor being the loss of taxes.
Stopping tax abuse is at the top of the administrations agenda right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31431256</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268217060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wasn't America founded as a direct result of fleeing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was n't America founded as a direct result of fleeing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wasn't America founded as a direct result of fleeing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426614</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Ltap</author>
	<datestamp>1268238600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably half-and-half people who were paid off/influenced to vote no matter what, and people who simply thought ACTA was a good idea. In other words, less than 1\%.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably half-and-half people who were paid off/influenced to vote no matter what , and people who simply thought ACTA was a good idea .
In other words , less than 1 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably half-and-half people who were paid off/influenced to vote no matter what, and people who simply thought ACTA was a good idea.
In other words, less than 1\%.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429758</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268253240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meh, 99\% of it is "I'm going to sit on my ass and whine out toothless threats to get e-attention for my e-drama!" Sensationalistic BS tossed out at the slightest provocation, either from an overinflated sense of self-importance or just trolling for lulz, the result is the same. IME the ones who get TRULY upset don't usually say anything; they just act.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meh , 99 \ % of it is " I 'm going to sit on my ass and whine out toothless threats to get e-attention for my e-drama !
" Sensationalistic BS tossed out at the slightest provocation , either from an overinflated sense of self-importance or just trolling for lulz , the result is the same .
IME the ones who get TRULY upset do n't usually say anything ; they just act .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meh, 99\% of it is "I'm going to sit on my ass and whine out toothless threats to get e-attention for my e-drama!
" Sensationalistic BS tossed out at the slightest provocation, either from an overinflated sense of self-importance or just trolling for lulz, the result is the same.
IME the ones who get TRULY upset don't usually say anything; they just act.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428036</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>amorsen</author>
	<datestamp>1268245020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's ironic "EFD" stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy.</p></div><p>I think it's unlikely that they actually want secrecy. I'm not particularly fond of right-wing groups like the UK Independence Party, but it would be a bit out of character for them to support agreements such as ACTA. The likelihood of them being paid off by the copyright lobby as others suggested is very low too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's ironic " EFD " stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy.I think it 's unlikely that they actually want secrecy .
I 'm not particularly fond of right-wing groups like the UK Independence Party , but it would be a bit out of character for them to support agreements such as ACTA .
The likelihood of them being paid off by the copyright lobby as others suggested is very low too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's ironic "EFD" stands for Europe of Freedom and Democracy and these guys want secrecy.I think it's unlikely that they actually want secrecy.
I'm not particularly fond of right-wing groups like the UK Independence Party, but it would be a bit out of character for them to support agreements such as ACTA.
The likelihood of them being paid off by the copyright lobby as others suggested is very low too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427814</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427418</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268242080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks.</p></div><p>So... just a normal Wednesday for you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks.So... just a normal Wednesday for you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to celebrate by getting shitfaced drunk and downloading some Creative Commons-licensed music from P2P networks.So... just a normal Wednesday for you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427898</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes - here are the votes</title>
	<author>Mister Whirly</author>
	<datestamp>1268244300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't understand. So they all voted against David Bowie's song "Rebel Rebel"? Why? It is a good song...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand .
So they all voted against David Bowie 's song " Rebel Rebel " ?
Why ? It is a good song.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand.
So they all voted against David Bowie's song "Rebel Rebel"?
Why? It is a good song...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31445586</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268306940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The pirate community has a lot more links to corporate US than it's apparent, according to this blurb:

<a href="http://2and2.blogs.experienceproject.com/274581.html" title="experienceproject.com" rel="nofollow">http://2and2.blogs.experienceproject.com/274581.html</a> [experienceproject.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The pirate community has a lot more links to corporate US than it 's apparent , according to this blurb : http : //2and2.blogs.experienceproject.com/274581.html [ experienceproject.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The pirate community has a lot more links to corporate US than it's apparent, according to this blurb:

http://2and2.blogs.experienceproject.com/274581.html [experienceproject.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427230</id>
	<title>The sane people...</title>
	<author>Eggplant62</author>
	<datestamp>1268241300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... in the rest of the world rejoiced. Thank you, EU.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... in the rest of the world rejoiced .
Thank you , EU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... in the rest of the world rejoiced.
Thank you, EU.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426784</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Except that the EU parliament has no real power (much like the British House of Lords).</p></div><p>Well, the parliament is needed to pass laws. That is some power...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that the EU parliament has no real power ( much like the British House of Lords ) .Well , the parliament is needed to pass laws .
That is some power.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that the EU parliament has no real power (much like the British House of Lords).Well, the parliament is needed to pass laws.
That is some power...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427826</id>
	<title>Vote with your feet</title>
	<author>SteveFoerster</author>
	<datestamp>1268243940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With the obvious exceptions of Native Americans and those whose ancestors were brought here against their will, the U.S. was built largely by those who came here seeking a better life.  If it was okay for them to come here for that reason, it's okay for me to go somewhere else for the same reason.</p><p>I'm one of three hundred million people in the U.S.  My odds that my fighting for freedom here will make a positive difference in my life are worse than my odds of winning the lottery.  Meanwhile, the odds that emigrating will make a positive difference in my life improve all the time.  So no thanks, you can keep your macho bullshit.  In this case it's better to be happy than right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With the obvious exceptions of Native Americans and those whose ancestors were brought here against their will , the U.S. was built largely by those who came here seeking a better life .
If it was okay for them to come here for that reason , it 's okay for me to go somewhere else for the same reason.I 'm one of three hundred million people in the U.S. My odds that my fighting for freedom here will make a positive difference in my life are worse than my odds of winning the lottery .
Meanwhile , the odds that emigrating will make a positive difference in my life improve all the time .
So no thanks , you can keep your macho bullshit .
In this case it 's better to be happy than right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the obvious exceptions of Native Americans and those whose ancestors were brought here against their will, the U.S. was built largely by those who came here seeking a better life.
If it was okay for them to come here for that reason, it's okay for me to go somewhere else for the same reason.I'm one of three hundred million people in the U.S.  My odds that my fighting for freedom here will make a positive difference in my life are worse than my odds of winning the lottery.
Meanwhile, the odds that emigrating will make a positive difference in my life improve all the time.
So no thanks, you can keep your macho bullshit.
In this case it's better to be happy than right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427790</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes - here are the votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268243820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here are the people that voted against:</p><p>1 Charalampos ANGOURAKIS  GUE-NGL  Greece  Rebel Rebel<br>2 Mario BORGHEZIO  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>3 Andrew Henry William BRONS  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel<br>4 Philippe de VILLIERS  EFD  France  Rebel Rebel<br>5 Diane DODDS  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel<br>6 Lorenzo FONTANA  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>7 Nick GRIFFIN  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel<br>8 Vital MOREIRA  S&amp;D  Portugal  Rebel Rebel<br>9 Maurice PONGA  PPE  France  Rebel Rebel<br>10 Fiorello PROVERA  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>11 Oreste ROSSI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>12 Matteo SALVINI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>13 Giancarlo SCOTTA'  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>14 Francesco Enrico SPERONI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel<br>15 Georgios TOUSSAS  GUE-NGL  Greece  Rebel Rebel<br>16 Kyriacos TRIANTAPHYLLIDES  GUE-NGL  Cyprus  Rebel Rebel</p><p>Source: http://www.votewatch.eu/cx\_vote\_details.php?order\_by=euro\_parlamentar\_id&amp;order=DESC&amp;last\_order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;id\_act=456&amp;vers=2</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here are the people that voted against : 1 Charalampos ANGOURAKIS GUE-NGL Greece Rebel Rebel2 Mario BORGHEZIO EFD Italy Rebel Rebel3 Andrew Henry William BRONS NI United Kingdom Independent Rebel4 Philippe de VILLIERS EFD France Rebel Rebel5 Diane DODDS NI United Kingdom Independent Rebel6 Lorenzo FONTANA EFD Italy Rebel Rebel7 Nick GRIFFIN NI United Kingdom Independent Rebel8 Vital MOREIRA S&amp;D Portugal Rebel Rebel9 Maurice PONGA PPE France Rebel Rebel10 Fiorello PROVERA EFD Italy Rebel Rebel11 Oreste ROSSI EFD Italy Rebel Rebel12 Matteo SALVINI EFD Italy Rebel Rebel13 Giancarlo SCOTTA ' EFD Italy Rebel Rebel14 Francesco Enrico SPERONI EFD Italy Rebel Rebel15 Georgios TOUSSAS GUE-NGL Greece Rebel Rebel16 Kyriacos TRIANTAPHYLLIDES GUE-NGL Cyprus Rebel RebelSource : http : //www.votewatch.eu/cx \ _vote \ _details.php ? order \ _by = euro \ _parlamentar \ _id&amp;order = DESC&amp;last \ _order \ _by = euro \ _vot \ _valoare&amp;id \ _act = 456&amp;vers = 2</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here are the people that voted against:1 Charalampos ANGOURAKIS  GUE-NGL  Greece  Rebel Rebel2 Mario BORGHEZIO  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel3 Andrew Henry William BRONS  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel4 Philippe de VILLIERS  EFD  France  Rebel Rebel5 Diane DODDS  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel6 Lorenzo FONTANA  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel7 Nick GRIFFIN  NI  United Kingdom  Independent Rebel8 Vital MOREIRA  S&amp;D  Portugal  Rebel Rebel9 Maurice PONGA  PPE  France  Rebel Rebel10 Fiorello PROVERA  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel11 Oreste ROSSI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel12 Matteo SALVINI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel13 Giancarlo SCOTTA'  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel14 Francesco Enrico SPERONI  EFD  Italy  Rebel Rebel15 Georgios TOUSSAS  GUE-NGL  Greece  Rebel Rebel16 Kyriacos TRIANTAPHYLLIDES  GUE-NGL  Cyprus  Rebel RebelSource: http://www.votewatch.eu/cx\_vote\_details.php?order\_by=euro\_parlamentar\_id&amp;order=DESC&amp;last\_order\_by=euro\_vot\_valoare&amp;id\_act=456&amp;vers=2</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427018</id>
	<title>your move, media corporations</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1268240340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it seems that even with all your paid for government whores, you can't legislate against technological progress</p><p>maybe you should consider your only option: death. fucking parasites</p><p>creators: you have a choice too. you can sign a ridiculous stifling agreement with some lawyer assholes where they get the lions share of your creative effort, or you can self-distribute</p><p>the downside is it's totally free, the upside is it's totally free. this is not communist thinking, this is in fact a solid capitalist model: think of your digitized creative output as advertising, the same solid capitalist business model as good old FM radio or broadcast television... give it away for free, reap the side benefits. you get fabulous exposure, free advertising, and permanent presence and community building with fans. then you can tour, or show only in movie houses, or a number of other ancillary revenue streams available to you, capitalizing on your exposure</p><p>you are your own entrepreneur, with your own creative output. no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an office: you rise and fall on the sheer affinity of fans to your output. this is, in fact, capitalism at its finest. for those who say the internet is destroying the capitalism as represented by traditional media corporations: no, that's an oligopoly. monopolies and oligopolies, in fact, are a greater threat to healthy capitalism than communist thinking. free over the internet is capitalism at its finest, not communism</p><p>creators: make money the honest way, rather than making a deal with the devil that the internet has pretty much destroyed now as a viable avenue for you. help us destroy the financial parasites on our culture, who are attempting to warp our freedoms to grandfather their unnecessary existence into our societies</p><p>die bertelsmann, die time warner, just fucking die, die, die you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits. WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE. DIE</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it seems that even with all your paid for government whores , you ca n't legislate against technological progressmaybe you should consider your only option : death .
fucking parasitescreators : you have a choice too .
you can sign a ridiculous stifling agreement with some lawyer assholes where they get the lions share of your creative effort , or you can self-distributethe downside is it 's totally free , the upside is it 's totally free .
this is not communist thinking , this is in fact a solid capitalist model : think of your digitized creative output as advertising , the same solid capitalist business model as good old FM radio or broadcast television... give it away for free , reap the side benefits .
you get fabulous exposure , free advertising , and permanent presence and community building with fans .
then you can tour , or show only in movie houses , or a number of other ancillary revenue streams available to you , capitalizing on your exposureyou are your own entrepreneur , with your own creative output .
no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an office : you rise and fall on the sheer affinity of fans to your output .
this is , in fact , capitalism at its finest .
for those who say the internet is destroying the capitalism as represented by traditional media corporations : no , that 's an oligopoly .
monopolies and oligopolies , in fact , are a greater threat to healthy capitalism than communist thinking .
free over the internet is capitalism at its finest , not communismcreators : make money the honest way , rather than making a deal with the devil that the internet has pretty much destroyed now as a viable avenue for you .
help us destroy the financial parasites on our culture , who are attempting to warp our freedoms to grandfather their unnecessary existence into our societiesdie bertelsmann , die time warner , just fucking die , die , die you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits .
WE DO N'T NEED YOU ANYMORE .
DIE</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it seems that even with all your paid for government whores, you can't legislate against technological progressmaybe you should consider your only option: death.
fucking parasitescreators: you have a choice too.
you can sign a ridiculous stifling agreement with some lawyer assholes where they get the lions share of your creative effort, or you can self-distributethe downside is it's totally free, the upside is it's totally free.
this is not communist thinking, this is in fact a solid capitalist model: think of your digitized creative output as advertising, the same solid capitalist business model as good old FM radio or broadcast television... give it away for free, reap the side benefits.
you get fabulous exposure, free advertising, and permanent presence and community building with fans.
then you can tour, or show only in movie houses, or a number of other ancillary revenue streams available to you, capitalizing on your exposureyou are your own entrepreneur, with your own creative output.
no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an office: you rise and fall on the sheer affinity of fans to your output.
this is, in fact, capitalism at its finest.
for those who say the internet is destroying the capitalism as represented by traditional media corporations: no, that's an oligopoly.
monopolies and oligopolies, in fact, are a greater threat to healthy capitalism than communist thinking.
free over the internet is capitalism at its finest, not communismcreators: make money the honest way, rather than making a deal with the devil that the internet has pretty much destroyed now as a viable avenue for you.
help us destroy the financial parasites on our culture, who are attempting to warp our freedoms to grandfather their unnecessary existence into our societiesdie bertelsmann, die time warner, just fucking die, die, die you useless rotten pile of lawyers and suits.
WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE.
DIE</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31431198</id>
	<title>That meme is derived from an older meme</title>
	<author>FoolishOwl</author>
	<datestamp>1268216760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a meme that people migrate TO the United States, to escape tyranny. Why wouldn't it make sense to migrate FROM the United States, to escape tyranny?</p><p>I'm generally of the opinion that it's best to stay and struggle "in the belly of the beast," but, there's a counterargument that worries me. In order to survive here -- to earn a living, especially -- I have to contribute to enterprises that I despise. What if, despite my best efforts and intentions, those negative contributions overwhelm any positive contributions I can make? In that case, wouldn't it be better to pick up and leave for somewhere that the balance is better?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a meme that people migrate TO the United States , to escape tyranny .
Why would n't it make sense to migrate FROM the United States , to escape tyranny ? I 'm generally of the opinion that it 's best to stay and struggle " in the belly of the beast , " but , there 's a counterargument that worries me .
In order to survive here -- to earn a living , especially -- I have to contribute to enterprises that I despise .
What if , despite my best efforts and intentions , those negative contributions overwhelm any positive contributions I can make ?
In that case , would n't it be better to pick up and leave for somewhere that the balance is better ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a meme that people migrate TO the United States, to escape tyranny.
Why wouldn't it make sense to migrate FROM the United States, to escape tyranny?I'm generally of the opinion that it's best to stay and struggle "in the belly of the beast," but, there's a counterargument that worries me.
In order to survive here -- to earn a living, especially -- I have to contribute to enterprises that I despise.
What if, despite my best efforts and intentions, those negative contributions overwhelm any positive contributions I can make?
In that case, wouldn't it be better to pick up and leave for somewhere that the balance is better?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426964</id>
	<title>ACTA "Rejected"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe its spoon was too big.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe its spoon was too big .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe its spoon was too big.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428892</id>
	<title>Re:your move, media corporations</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1268249220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to Karma hell for this, but let me fix a few things for you:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>creators: you have a choice too...ridiculous stifling agreement...or you can self-distribute</p></div><p>Creators, you can take that pile of advance cash sitting there on the table. Yes, those are stacks of $100 bills, and of course we can get you a duffel bag to put them in. Then again, you could always walk out with your "principles" and forego the chance to share your art with untold millions of future adoring fans. You don't have the capitol to market or get airplay, so you'll simply wallow in obscurity for entire career, requiring you to get a day job to make rent each month.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>you are your own entrepreneur, with your own creative output. no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an office</p></div><p>Most musicians can't tell the right and left sides of a ledger apart, and really have no desire to do so. That's why they're called artists, and not entrepreneurs, business people, or venture capitalists. Every hour a competent business person spends managing your career is 4-10 frustrating hours an artist would spend away from creating. Hell, I'm an engineer and I'm pretty good at finance and accounting, but my finance person does the same job in less than half the time it used to take me. I couldn't even guess the hours it would take to write a creative musical work from scratch (and I know a little music, too).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>creators: make money the honest way</p></div><p>Careful there, bub.  Art is a luxury or an entertainment. Ever notice how lots of people do music for fun, but almost nobody does accounting as a hobby? To be good enough to get paid as a creative artist you've got to make a lot of people happy. It is insanely hard, and the opportunity to jump into the mainstream (including an income that lets you lose your day job) is a hard one to turn down. Bootstrapping in a mature, multinational industry - even in the internet age - is very, very hard.</p><p>I don't like the system, but asking an up-an-coming artist to try and buck it is asking quite a lot.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to Karma hell for this , but let me fix a few things for you : creators : you have a choice too...ridiculous stifling agreement...or you can self-distributeCreators , you can take that pile of advance cash sitting there on the table .
Yes , those are stacks of $ 100 bills , and of course we can get you a duffel bag to put them in .
Then again , you could always walk out with your " principles " and forego the chance to share your art with untold millions of future adoring fans .
You do n't have the capitol to market or get airplay , so you 'll simply wallow in obscurity for entire career , requiring you to get a day job to make rent each month.you are your own entrepreneur , with your own creative output .
no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an officeMost musicians ca n't tell the right and left sides of a ledger apart , and really have no desire to do so .
That 's why they 're called artists , and not entrepreneurs , business people , or venture capitalists .
Every hour a competent business person spends managing your career is 4-10 frustrating hours an artist would spend away from creating .
Hell , I 'm an engineer and I 'm pretty good at finance and accounting , but my finance person does the same job in less than half the time it used to take me .
I could n't even guess the hours it would take to write a creative musical work from scratch ( and I know a little music , too ) .creators : make money the honest wayCareful there , bub .
Art is a luxury or an entertainment .
Ever notice how lots of people do music for fun , but almost nobody does accounting as a hobby ?
To be good enough to get paid as a creative artist you 've got to make a lot of people happy .
It is insanely hard , and the opportunity to jump into the mainstream ( including an income that lets you lose your day job ) is a hard one to turn down .
Bootstrapping in a mature , multinational industry - even in the internet age - is very , very hard.I do n't like the system , but asking an up-an-coming artist to try and buck it is asking quite a lot .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to Karma hell for this, but let me fix a few things for you:creators: you have a choice too...ridiculous stifling agreement...or you can self-distributeCreators, you can take that pile of advance cash sitting there on the table.
Yes, those are stacks of $100 bills, and of course we can get you a duffel bag to put them in.
Then again, you could always walk out with your "principles" and forego the chance to share your art with untold millions of future adoring fans.
You don't have the capitol to market or get airplay, so you'll simply wallow in obscurity for entire career, requiring you to get a day job to make rent each month.you are your own entrepreneur, with your own creative output.
no more is your fate decided by some asshole in a suit in an officeMost musicians can't tell the right and left sides of a ledger apart, and really have no desire to do so.
That's why they're called artists, and not entrepreneurs, business people, or venture capitalists.
Every hour a competent business person spends managing your career is 4-10 frustrating hours an artist would spend away from creating.
Hell, I'm an engineer and I'm pretty good at finance and accounting, but my finance person does the same job in less than half the time it used to take me.
I couldn't even guess the hours it would take to write a creative musical work from scratch (and I know a little music, too).creators: make money the honest wayCareful there, bub.
Art is a luxury or an entertainment.
Ever notice how lots of people do music for fun, but almost nobody does accounting as a hobby?
To be good enough to get paid as a creative artist you've got to make a lot of people happy.
It is insanely hard, and the opportunity to jump into the mainstream (including an income that lets you lose your day job) is a hard one to turn down.
Bootstrapping in a mature, multinational industry - even in the internet age - is very, very hard.I don't like the system, but asking an up-an-coming artist to try and buck it is asking quite a lot.
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427344</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Vanderhoth</author>
	<datestamp>1268241780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's nothing wrong with voting against a piece of legislation if you can point out, "Yeah sure this bill says everyone should give flowers to baby orphan whales, but I'm voting against the part that says we kill the parents."</p><p>Unfortunately, the issue is normally, at least in Canada, one government party will come up with a bill that is really beneficial to the public then hid something mildly devious in it. If the other parties in the government vote against it the first will come back with, "you see how evil the other parties are!!!". Sometimes forcing other parties to vote against a piece of legislation is a tactic to take to the polls for an election.</p><p>That being said if you can justify to the public why you voted against something all you have to do is say if they amend XYZ then I'll vote for it. Of course this brings up another issue where the parties not in power don't what the party in power to do something good, because then they get credit for it and it counts against the opposition parties during the next election...</p><p>Why does politics have to be so complicated? Why can't all politicians just do what they're elected to do and serve the people?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's nothing wrong with voting against a piece of legislation if you can point out , " Yeah sure this bill says everyone should give flowers to baby orphan whales , but I 'm voting against the part that says we kill the parents .
" Unfortunately , the issue is normally , at least in Canada , one government party will come up with a bill that is really beneficial to the public then hid something mildly devious in it .
If the other parties in the government vote against it the first will come back with , " you see how evil the other parties are ! ! ! " .
Sometimes forcing other parties to vote against a piece of legislation is a tactic to take to the polls for an election.That being said if you can justify to the public why you voted against something all you have to do is say if they amend XYZ then I 'll vote for it .
Of course this brings up another issue where the parties not in power do n't what the party in power to do something good , because then they get credit for it and it counts against the opposition parties during the next election...Why does politics have to be so complicated ?
Why ca n't all politicians just do what they 're elected to do and serve the people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's nothing wrong with voting against a piece of legislation if you can point out, "Yeah sure this bill says everyone should give flowers to baby orphan whales, but I'm voting against the part that says we kill the parents.
"Unfortunately, the issue is normally, at least in Canada, one government party will come up with a bill that is really beneficial to the public then hid something mildly devious in it.
If the other parties in the government vote against it the first will come back with, "you see how evil the other parties are!!!".
Sometimes forcing other parties to vote against a piece of legislation is a tactic to take to the polls for an election.That being said if you can justify to the public why you voted against something all you have to do is say if they amend XYZ then I'll vote for it.
Of course this brings up another issue where the parties not in power don't what the party in power to do something good, because then they get credit for it and it counts against the opposition parties during the next election...Why does politics have to be so complicated?
Why can't all politicians just do what they're elected to do and serve the people?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428326</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is democracy that you are talking about, if only a part of the votes were for bush and he won, then especially the losers have no right to complain, it's democracy at work, democracy they support. As for those that don't vote or say that they'll leave for Canada, well, they're doing something about it. Not voting when you have no other option is your right too, oh yeah, in the US you have what? two major political parties? if that's democracy, then you don't have any choice, no choice, no freedom.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is democracy that you are talking about , if only a part of the votes were for bush and he won , then especially the losers have no right to complain , it 's democracy at work , democracy they support .
As for those that do n't vote or say that they 'll leave for Canada , well , they 're doing something about it .
Not voting when you have no other option is your right too , oh yeah , in the US you have what ?
two major political parties ?
if that 's democracy , then you do n't have any choice , no choice , no freedom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is democracy that you are talking about, if only a part of the votes were for bush and he won, then especially the losers have no right to complain, it's democracy at work, democracy they support.
As for those that don't vote or say that they'll leave for Canada, well, they're doing something about it.
Not voting when you have no other option is your right too, oh yeah, in the US you have what?
two major political parties?
if that's democracy, then you don't have any choice, no choice, no freedom.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429468</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268251860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or it could just be that you realize that you are beyond hope of having $400 billion in your pocket that you can dump on the government in lobbying efforts, and that the golden rule ("he who has the gold makes the rules") applies in your country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or it could just be that you realize that you are beyond hope of having $ 400 billion in your pocket that you can dump on the government in lobbying efforts , and that the golden rule ( " he who has the gold makes the rules " ) applies in your country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or it could just be that you realize that you are beyond hope of having $400 billion in your pocket that you can dump on the government in lobbying efforts, and that the golden rule ("he who has the gold makes the rules") applies in your country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426550</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except that the EU parliament has no real power (much like the British House of Lords). All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that the EU parliament has no real power ( much like the British House of Lords ) .
All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that the EU parliament has no real power (much like the British House of Lords).
All real power in the EU is held by the bureaucracy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31430140</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268211660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Which is worse: politicians that can be cowed by the media, or politicians who aren't answerable to the media at all?</p></div><p>Ooooh, let me try to answer that one!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... err....<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... errr......<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... think<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p><p>I got it! Politicians who can be cowed by the media are the worst by <b>far</b>.<br>Why?</p><p>Well I don't know about you, but I didn't elect the media, and the media didn't elect the politicians.<br>Politicians need to be answerable to the people that elected them. And it would be damn good if for a change they were not answerable at all to anything else!<br>Imagine that... not answerable to pressure groups, to lobbyists, to the media. Only answerable to your actual constituents.<br>Hell, politicians might actually start to govern again.</p><p>Give me a politician who is not answerable to media any day. And then let's cheer him. A politician with a spine! Hurray!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is worse : politicians that can be cowed by the media , or politicians who are n't answerable to the media at all ? Ooooh , let me try to answer that one !
... err.... ... errr...... .... think ....I got it !
Politicians who can be cowed by the media are the worst by far.Why ? Well I do n't know about you , but I did n't elect the media , and the media did n't elect the politicians.Politicians need to be answerable to the people that elected them .
And it would be damn good if for a change they were not answerable at all to anything else ! Imagine that... not answerable to pressure groups , to lobbyists , to the media .
Only answerable to your actual constituents.Hell , politicians might actually start to govern again.Give me a politician who is not answerable to media any day .
And then let 's cheer him .
A politician with a spine !
Hurray !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is worse: politicians that can be cowed by the media, or politicians who aren't answerable to the media at all?Ooooh, let me try to answer that one!
... err.... ... errr...... .... think ....I got it!
Politicians who can be cowed by the media are the worst by far.Why?Well I don't know about you, but I didn't elect the media, and the media didn't elect the politicians.Politicians need to be answerable to the people that elected them.
And it would be damn good if for a change they were not answerable at all to anything else!Imagine that... not answerable to pressure groups, to lobbyists, to the media.
Only answerable to your actual constituents.Hell, politicians might actually start to govern again.Give me a politician who is not answerable to media any day.
And then let's cheer him.
A politician with a spine!
Hurray!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31447654</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>falconwolf</author>
	<datestamp>1268318400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free? Dream on. You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion people</i></p><p>The European population is more than <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe\_population" title="wikipedia.org">830 million</a> [wikipedia.org] whereas the US's is estimated at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Population" title="wikipedia.org">309 million</a> [wikipedia.org].  The census being done will likely raise the number but it's still less than half of Europe's population.  Well maybe you meant something else...  According to the <a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html" title="cia.gov">CIA</a> [cia.gov] the EU has the largest exports, China is second, and Germany alone is third.  The US shows up behind Germany at number 4.</p><p>If that's not what you mean then what do you mean?  Quite simply both the EU and China have bigger markets.  About the only thing the US has going for it is IP and productivity.</p><p><i>Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.</i></p><p>I doubt it but I hope Obamacare is stopped.  I'm feeling sorrier and sorrier I voted for him.</p><p>

Falcon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US is n't going to be passed around for free ?
Dream on .
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion peopleThe European population is more than 830 million [ wikipedia.org ] whereas the US 's is estimated at 309 million [ wikipedia.org ] .
The census being done will likely raise the number but it 's still less than half of Europe 's population .
Well maybe you meant something else... According to the CIA [ cia.gov ] the EU has the largest exports , China is second , and Germany alone is third .
The US shows up behind Germany at number 4.If that 's not what you mean then what do you mean ?
Quite simply both the EU and China have bigger markets .
About the only thing the US has going for it is IP and productivity.Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.I doubt it but I hope Obamacare is stopped .
I 'm feeling sorrier and sorrier I voted for him .
Falcon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really believe that anything the EU does is going to prevent the US from rather forcibly letting the world know that the IP manuactured in the US isn't going to be passed around for free?
Dream on.
You are talking about a huge economy that is responsible for the well-being of nearly a half a billion peopleThe European population is more than 830 million [wikipedia.org] whereas the US's is estimated at 309 million [wikipedia.org].
The census being done will likely raise the number but it's still less than half of Europe's population.
Well maybe you meant something else...  According to the CIA [cia.gov] the EU has the largest exports, China is second, and Germany alone is third.
The US shows up behind Germany at number 4.If that's not what you mean then what do you mean?
Quite simply both the EU and China have bigger markets.
About the only thing the US has going for it is IP and productivity.Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.I doubt it but I hope Obamacare is stopped.
I'm feeling sorrier and sorrier I voted for him.
Falcon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427752</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>twidarkling</author>
	<datestamp>1268243700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rather than votes being anonymous, legislation should be single-issue bills. One topic, and one topic only. If a rider isn't directly necessary to implementation of a bill, it shouldn't be on there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather than votes being anonymous , legislation should be single-issue bills .
One topic , and one topic only .
If a rider is n't directly necessary to implementation of a bill , it should n't be on there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather than votes being anonymous, legislation should be single-issue bills.
One topic, and one topic only.
If a rider isn't directly necessary to implementation of a bill, it shouldn't be on there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428060</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1268245080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Don't worry, the bunch of corrupt motherfuckers called the European Commission will override the Parliament and do whatever the fuck they wanted to in the beginning. They did so many times in the past, so why not? It's not like the Parliament was democratically elected and not the Commission, is it?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't worry , the bunch of corrupt motherfuckers called the European Commission will override the Parliament and do whatever the fuck they wanted to in the beginning .
They did so many times in the past , so why not ?
It 's not like the Parliament was democratically elected and not the Commission , is it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Don't worry, the bunch of corrupt motherfuckers called the European Commission will override the Parliament and do whatever the fuck they wanted to in the beginning.
They did so many times in the past, so why not?
It's not like the Parliament was democratically elected and not the Commission, is it?
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31436320</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>eyendall</author>
	<datestamp>1268313060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you are confusing politicians with people. The majority of "people"  i.e. voters are ignorant or stupid and wouldn't know what ACTA was if it bit them. Politicians do what they do for a variety of reasons; "the voice of the people",  whatever that is, being a very minor one. Self-interest a more convincing one. Wanting to be a politician is prima facia evidence of unsuitability for elected office.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you are confusing politicians with people .
The majority of " people " i.e .
voters are ignorant or stupid and would n't know what ACTA was if it bit them .
Politicians do what they do for a variety of reasons ; " the voice of the people " , whatever that is , being a very minor one .
Self-interest a more convincing one .
Wanting to be a politician is prima facia evidence of unsuitability for elected office .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you are confusing politicians with people.
The majority of "people"  i.e.
voters are ignorant or stupid and wouldn't know what ACTA was if it bit them.
Politicians do what they do for a variety of reasons; "the voice of the people",  whatever that is, being a very minor one.
Self-interest a more convincing one.
Wanting to be a politician is prima facia evidence of unsuitability for elected office.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427702</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone. This is going to cost a lot more money, money the government gets from taxes. Pirates don't pay taxes on what they "try before buying". So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away, the government's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away. The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.</p></div><p>Pirates that don't spend their money on software are likely to spend it on other things, so the US government is not losing any noticable amount of taxation on this in the end -- unless you're claiming the pirates invest everything they save.  But I can't think of a time that someone told me, "Yeah I downloaded this software, and I put the $50 it's not costing me straight into my retirement funds."</p><p>Sorry, but I don't buy it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone .
This is going to cost a lot more money , money the government gets from taxes .
Pirates do n't pay taxes on what they " try before buying " .
So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away , the government 's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away .
The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.Pirates that do n't spend their money on software are likely to spend it on other things , so the US government is not losing any noticable amount of taxation on this in the end -- unless you 're claiming the pirates invest everything they save .
But I ca n't think of a time that someone told me , " Yeah I downloaded this software , and I put the $ 50 it 's not costing me straight into my retirement funds .
" Sorry , but I do n't buy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably the biggest thing that people are missing is the US is poised to take on a huge new madate to pretty much supply health care to everyone.
This is going to cost a lot more money, money the government gets from taxes.
Pirates don't pay taxes on what they "try before buying".
So regardless of how the media companies figure out a new business model that can just give everything away, the government's share of the sales taxes and income taxes goes away.
The US government is no longer in a position to ignore this loss of tax revenue.Pirates that don't spend their money on software are likely to spend it on other things, so the US government is not losing any noticable amount of taxation on this in the end -- unless you're claiming the pirates invest everything they save.
But I can't think of a time that someone told me, "Yeah I downloaded this software, and I put the $50 it's not costing me straight into my retirement funds.
"Sorry, but I don't buy it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427626</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>c6gunner</author>
	<datestamp>1268243100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a rhetorical point rather than a statement of fact.  When Bush was elected, I noticed a distinct dearth or "liberal" refugees swarming over the border.  Nor did the situation change upon his reelection.  While one or two rare individuals may actually follow up on such statements, the vast majority will not.  It's the equivalent of a young child threatening to run away from home; a cry for attention rather than a serious plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a rhetorical point rather than a statement of fact .
When Bush was elected , I noticed a distinct dearth or " liberal " refugees swarming over the border .
Nor did the situation change upon his reelection .
While one or two rare individuals may actually follow up on such statements , the vast majority will not .
It 's the equivalent of a young child threatening to run away from home ; a cry for attention rather than a serious plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a rhetorical point rather than a statement of fact.
When Bush was elected, I noticed a distinct dearth or "liberal" refugees swarming over the border.
Nor did the situation change upon his reelection.
While one or two rare individuals may actually follow up on such statements, the vast majority will not.
It's the equivalent of a young child threatening to run away from home; a cry for attention rather than a serious plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428176</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268245800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And you're delusional.  You seem to believe in the old saying "one person can make a difference".</p><p>They can't.  UNLESS you're that special, magical one in 10,000,000 who's in a ridiculously high position of power, or closely know and can influence someone who is.  Call it a hunch, you're not.  The odds are so astronomically AGAINST you being that one, that fighting for it is an exercise in futility.</p><p>AND, even if you ARE that one in 10,000,000, there's still a good chance you will accomplish nothing of worth.  How much magically better is the USA because of Obama again?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And you 're delusional .
You seem to believe in the old saying " one person can make a difference " .They ca n't .
UNLESS you 're that special , magical one in 10,000,000 who 's in a ridiculously high position of power , or closely know and can influence someone who is .
Call it a hunch , you 're not .
The odds are so astronomically AGAINST you being that one , that fighting for it is an exercise in futility.AND , even if you ARE that one in 10,000,000 , there 's still a good chance you will accomplish nothing of worth .
How much magically better is the USA because of Obama again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you're delusional.
You seem to believe in the old saying "one person can make a difference".They can't.
UNLESS you're that special, magical one in 10,000,000 who's in a ridiculously high position of power, or closely know and can influence someone who is.
Call it a hunch, you're not.
The odds are so astronomically AGAINST you being that one, that fighting for it is an exercise in futility.AND, even if you ARE that one in 10,000,000, there's still a good chance you will accomplish nothing of worth.
How much magically better is the USA because of Obama again?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426706</id>
	<title>Ouch.</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1268239080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>That has got to sting.<br> <br>

Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That has got to sting .
Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That has got to sting.
Most genocides had higher approval ratings than that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427224</id>
	<title>Obama's Administration officially looks stupid!</title>
	<author>paulsnx2</author>
	<datestamp>1268241300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We were told that ACTA had to remain secret for "National Security Reasons".   We were told it had to remain secret or other countries would walk away from the table.</p><p>But the truth is that most of Europe will walk away if there is no disclosure.   And none of the countries that have supported secrecy have threatened to leave the talks.  And the US hasn't even claimed to take a position (though we all know that is a lie).</p><p>And to top it all off, despite all the leaks so far, we do not have a single terrorist organization that has been able to leverage the revealed all-so-dangerous-information commit any terrorist act.</p><p>At least, as long as you don't consider Michael Geist a terrorist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We were told that ACTA had to remain secret for " National Security Reasons " .
We were told it had to remain secret or other countries would walk away from the table.But the truth is that most of Europe will walk away if there is no disclosure .
And none of the countries that have supported secrecy have threatened to leave the talks .
And the US has n't even claimed to take a position ( though we all know that is a lie ) .And to top it all off , despite all the leaks so far , we do not have a single terrorist organization that has been able to leverage the revealed all-so-dangerous-information commit any terrorist act.At least , as long as you do n't consider Michael Geist a terrorist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We were told that ACTA had to remain secret for "National Security Reasons".
We were told it had to remain secret or other countries would walk away from the table.But the truth is that most of Europe will walk away if there is no disclosure.
And none of the countries that have supported secrecy have threatened to leave the talks.
And the US hasn't even claimed to take a position (though we all know that is a lie).And to top it all off, despite all the leaks so far, we do not have a single terrorist organization that has been able to leverage the revealed all-so-dangerous-information commit any terrorist act.At least, as long as you don't consider Michael Geist a terrorist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426698</id>
	<title>"Compromise" coming next</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268239020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA and experience, this proposal will be back in a "compromise" version, but since the EU Parliament won't be involved in drafting it, it will likely just sound like a compromise. Happened plenty of times before.</p><p>Don't rejoice just yet - keep up the pressure, so any pretend compromise will fail again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA and experience , this proposal will be back in a " compromise " version , but since the EU Parliament wo n't be involved in drafting it , it will likely just sound like a compromise .
Happened plenty of times before.Do n't rejoice just yet - keep up the pressure , so any pretend compromise will fail again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA and experience, this proposal will be back in a "compromise" version, but since the EU Parliament won't be involved in drafting it, it will likely just sound like a compromise.
Happened plenty of times before.Don't rejoice just yet - keep up the pressure, so any pretend compromise will fail again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427970</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>brainiac ghost1991</author>
	<datestamp>1268244720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Though I disagree with them, their policy is to vote no on everything that goes through the european parliament!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though I disagree with them , their policy is to vote no on everything that goes through the european parliament !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though I disagree with them, their policy is to vote no on everything that goes through the european parliament!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427814</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427862</id>
	<title>Re:Obama's Administration officially looks stupid!</title>
	<author>wvmarle</author>
	<datestamp>1268244120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If an international agreement has to remain secret, then it is bad for the general people. No doubt about that. If it is good for the public, why keep it secret in the first place? When the agreement comes in force, it has to be published to be of any use in the first place. ACTA is about forcing other countries to make laws around it - that can only be done if it is public. Laws, by nature, have to be public,
</p><p>There can be no other reason for such an agreement to be drafted in secret than that it is against the wishes of the general public. And possibly against the legislatures of many of the countries involved. So no matter how you turn it, it makes Obama with his promises of an open government look more than just stupid. It makes him look Bush.
</p><p>Now I am aware of the US having secret laws/regulation (especially regarding air traffic). It makes me wonder how to go about people breaking those laws. Because on one hand, a basic legal principle is that "ignorance of the law is no defense". But what if that law is secret? Can you not argue that it is impossible to know about it? And that in effect such a law doesn't exist for you as you can not know about it for the very fact that it is secret?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If an international agreement has to remain secret , then it is bad for the general people .
No doubt about that .
If it is good for the public , why keep it secret in the first place ?
When the agreement comes in force , it has to be published to be of any use in the first place .
ACTA is about forcing other countries to make laws around it - that can only be done if it is public .
Laws , by nature , have to be public , There can be no other reason for such an agreement to be drafted in secret than that it is against the wishes of the general public .
And possibly against the legislatures of many of the countries involved .
So no matter how you turn it , it makes Obama with his promises of an open government look more than just stupid .
It makes him look Bush .
Now I am aware of the US having secret laws/regulation ( especially regarding air traffic ) .
It makes me wonder how to go about people breaking those laws .
Because on one hand , a basic legal principle is that " ignorance of the law is no defense " .
But what if that law is secret ?
Can you not argue that it is impossible to know about it ?
And that in effect such a law does n't exist for you as you can not know about it for the very fact that it is secret ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If an international agreement has to remain secret, then it is bad for the general people.
No doubt about that.
If it is good for the public, why keep it secret in the first place?
When the agreement comes in force, it has to be published to be of any use in the first place.
ACTA is about forcing other countries to make laws around it - that can only be done if it is public.
Laws, by nature, have to be public,
There can be no other reason for such an agreement to be drafted in secret than that it is against the wishes of the general public.
And possibly against the legislatures of many of the countries involved.
So no matter how you turn it, it makes Obama with his promises of an open government look more than just stupid.
It makes him look Bush.
Now I am aware of the US having secret laws/regulation (especially regarding air traffic).
It makes me wonder how to go about people breaking those laws.
Because on one hand, a basic legal principle is that "ignorance of the law is no defense".
But what if that law is secret?
Can you not argue that it is impossible to know about it?
And that in effect such a law doesn't exist for you as you can not know about it for the very fact that it is secret?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31459632</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>seekertom</author>
	<datestamp>1268401620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the way you set up your argument about conditions in Afganistan, you are right, but... possibly, the solution is to combat whatever 'evil' you are against with something less-than meaninglessly tossing your life under the bus. for example, here in America, if someone thinks ob is a jerk that needs to be 'early-retired', he needn't drive to dc with a truckload of tnt... that'll only end in disaster for all involved... and also, is rather illegal! however, to start a web campaign to enlighten all recipients of actual activities ob is involved in, might just accomplish something... we must all try to refrain from bouncing off the end-stops of life, and try to seek the path most likely to succeed. (maybe a decent sig???) thanks fer lis'nin'  seekertom</htmltext>
<tokenext>the way you set up your argument about conditions in Afganistan , you are right , but... possibly , the solution is to combat whatever 'evil ' you are against with something less-than meaninglessly tossing your life under the bus .
for example , here in America , if someone thinks ob is a jerk that needs to be 'early-retired ' , he need n't drive to dc with a truckload of tnt... that 'll only end in disaster for all involved... and also , is rather illegal !
however , to start a web campaign to enlighten all recipients of actual activities ob is involved in , might just accomplish something... we must all try to refrain from bouncing off the end-stops of life , and try to seek the path most likely to succeed .
( maybe a decent sig ? ? ?
) thanks fer lis'nin ' seekertom</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the way you set up your argument about conditions in Afganistan, you are right, but... possibly, the solution is to combat whatever 'evil' you are against with something less-than meaninglessly tossing your life under the bus.
for example, here in America, if someone thinks ob is a jerk that needs to be 'early-retired', he needn't drive to dc with a truckload of tnt... that'll only end in disaster for all involved... and also, is rather illegal!
however, to start a web campaign to enlighten all recipients of actual activities ob is involved in, might just accomplish something... we must all try to refrain from bouncing off the end-stops of life, and try to seek the path most likely to succeed.
(maybe a decent sig???
) thanks fer lis'nin'  seekertom</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429748</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>Ihmhi</author>
	<datestamp>1268253180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that the *AAs are facing a battle against time.</p><p>As time goes by, internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware. In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.</p><p>It's a battle they are (eventually) going to lose to sanity. ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap. They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching, though, so they basically shot themselves in the foot.</p><p>I await the day 50 years from now when I can laugh about all of this, and weep about the same exact shit happening with some other medium, i.e. "Are neuro-interactive hologames making our education pavilions more violent?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that the * AAs are facing a battle against time.As time goes by , internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware .
In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.It 's a battle they are ( eventually ) going to lose to sanity .
ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap .
They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching , though , so they basically shot themselves in the foot.I await the day 50 years from now when I can laugh about all of this , and weep about the same exact shit happening with some other medium , i.e .
" Are neuro-interactive hologames making our education pavilions more violent ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that the *AAs are facing a battle against time.As time goes by, internet connections are going to improve and the citizenry is going to become more aware.
In 4 years all of those 14 year olds today using Limewire will be 18 and eligible to vote in many countries.It's a battle they are (eventually) going to lose to sanity.
ACTA was probably going to be a stopgap.
They tried to do it too big and have it too far-reaching, though, so they basically shot themselves in the foot.I await the day 50 years from now when I can laugh about all of this, and weep about the same exact shit happening with some other medium, i.e.
"Are neuro-interactive hologames making our education pavilions more violent?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433708</id>
	<title>Not just about the secrecy</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1268233500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This vote and resolution wasnt just "we want to see ACTA negotiations carried out in the open", there was also a fairly strong push against plans for mandatory 3-strikes laws and against the push by big media companies to make ISPs and network providers the "copyright cops" for the big media companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This vote and resolution wasnt just " we want to see ACTA negotiations carried out in the open " , there was also a fairly strong push against plans for mandatory 3-strikes laws and against the push by big media companies to make ISPs and network providers the " copyright cops " for the big media companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This vote and resolution wasnt just "we want to see ACTA negotiations carried out in the open", there was also a fairly strong push against plans for mandatory 3-strikes laws and against the push by big media companies to make ISPs and network providers the "copyright cops" for the big media companies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427292</id>
	<title>Don't forget to thank them!</title>
	<author>ConfusedVorlon</author>
	<datestamp>1268241540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>rather than always writing to complain / object. How about some letters of support.</p><p>I'm guessing MEPs don't get many - and they may notice and remember them.</p><p><a href="http://www.writetothem.com/" title="writetothem.com">http://www.writetothem.com/</a> [writetothem.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>rather than always writing to complain / object .
How about some letters of support.I 'm guessing MEPs do n't get many - and they may notice and remember them.http : //www.writetothem.com/ [ writetothem.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>rather than always writing to complain / object.
How about some letters of support.I'm guessing MEPs don't get many - and they may notice and remember them.http://www.writetothem.com/ [writetothem.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427066</id>
	<title>Re:Good.</title>
	<author>ThePhilips</author>
	<datestamp>1268240580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> They'll just slice it and pass it piece by piece through all the possible loopholes, avoiding any vote by elected officials.

</p><p> When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.
<br> When in the EU nothing happens<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well, you see such news. IOW, any news from Brussels can be safely ignored, "real business" there <i>happens</i> behind closed doors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll just slice it and pass it piece by piece through all the possible loopholes , avoiding any vote by elected officials .
When in the EU something happens , all become aware of it only as a post factum , when it is too late to influence anything .
When in the EU nothing happens ... well , you see such news .
IOW , any news from Brussels can be safely ignored , " real business " there happens behind closed doors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> They'll just slice it and pass it piece by piece through all the possible loopholes, avoiding any vote by elected officials.
When in the EU something happens, all become aware of it only as a post factum, when it is too late to influence anything.
When in the EU nothing happens ... well, you see such news.
IOW, any news from Brussels can be safely ignored, "real business" there happens behind closed doors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427636</id>
	<title>Will cost a little more</title>
	<author>klui</author>
	<datestamp>1268243160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The corporations have bought the American government. They just need to spend a little more to buy Europe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The corporations have bought the American government .
They just need to spend a little more to buy Europe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The corporations have bought the American government.
They just need to spend a little more to buy Europe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428286</id>
	<title>We are all europeans now</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1268246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nomatter who are we from in actuality, there is one single parliament standing against the evil being spewed through acta in lieu of democracy.</p><p>americans and europeans, japanese and indians alike, we should all gather behind support for the European Parliament. u.s. senate may be letting its citizens down. british parliament may be sold long ago. japanese parliament may not care. currently Eu parliament is the only assembly that is speaking for the rights and freedoms of the people. until this crisis is over, we are all europeans, and should fight alongside them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nomatter who are we from in actuality , there is one single parliament standing against the evil being spewed through acta in lieu of democracy.americans and europeans , japanese and indians alike , we should all gather behind support for the European Parliament .
u.s. senate may be letting its citizens down .
british parliament may be sold long ago .
japanese parliament may not care .
currently Eu parliament is the only assembly that is speaking for the rights and freedoms of the people .
until this crisis is over , we are all europeans , and should fight alongside them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nomatter who are we from in actuality, there is one single parliament standing against the evil being spewed through acta in lieu of democracy.americans and europeans, japanese and indians alike, we should all gather behind support for the European Parliament.
u.s. senate may be letting its citizens down.
british parliament may be sold long ago.
japanese parliament may not care.
currently Eu parliament is the only assembly that is speaking for the rights and freedoms of the people.
until this crisis is over, we are all europeans, and should fight alongside them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427404</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1268242020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't get your hopes up, in the Metric system 98\% isn't a majority.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't get your hopes up , in the Metric system 98 \ % is n't a majority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't get your hopes up, in the Metric system 98\% isn't a majority.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>abigsmurf</author>
	<datestamp>1268239920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally I think there's a lot to be said about keeping these votes anonymous. You end up with 'flags for orphans' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I think there 's a lot to be said about keeping these votes anonymous .
You end up with 'flags for orphans ' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I think there's a lot to be said about keeping these votes anonymous.
You end up with 'flags for orphans' situations where a piece of draconian legislation gets snuck in a popular bill and people are too scared to vote against it for fear of seeing their name in negative headlines.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428488</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>the eric conspiracy</author>
	<datestamp>1268247300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not until the EU represents some actual form of unity, like having common armed forces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not until the EU represents some actual form of unity , like having common armed forces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not until the EU represents some actual form of unity, like having common armed forces.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428620</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>mewsenews</author>
	<datestamp>1268247900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>we need fighters who will fight for their home, not freeloading whiners</p></div></blockquote><p>As a Canadian, we don't want your countrymen that continually threaten to migrate. We want the ones that actually do it. Actions will always speak louder than words.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>we need fighters who will fight for their home , not freeloading whinersAs a Canadian , we do n't want your countrymen that continually threaten to migrate .
We want the ones that actually do it .
Actions will always speak louder than words .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we need fighters who will fight for their home, not freeloading whinersAs a Canadian, we don't want your countrymen that continually threaten to migrate.
We want the ones that actually do it.
Actions will always speak louder than words.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428180</id>
	<title>We cant just stop and wait.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1268245800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we have to push forward. EFF and other organizations need to give a big push wherever they can, and also support Euparl's decision.</p><p>It is high chance that lobbyists will swarm Brussels and try to deceive the parliamentarians with innumerable excuses, ranging from terorrism to 'intellectual property rights'. Euparl members have always been steadfast in their 'for the people' stance and are much well informed than any other parliamentarian in the world, however, its always best to take no chances.</p><p>EFF, Geist, whomever can, should push forward with a strong publicity effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we have to push forward .
EFF and other organizations need to give a big push wherever they can , and also support Euparl 's decision.It is high chance that lobbyists will swarm Brussels and try to deceive the parliamentarians with innumerable excuses , ranging from terorrism to 'intellectual property rights' .
Euparl members have always been steadfast in their 'for the people ' stance and are much well informed than any other parliamentarian in the world , however , its always best to take no chances.EFF , Geist , whomever can , should push forward with a strong publicity effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we have to push forward.
EFF and other organizations need to give a big push wherever they can, and also support Euparl's decision.It is high chance that lobbyists will swarm Brussels and try to deceive the parliamentarians with innumerable excuses, ranging from terorrism to 'intellectual property rights'.
Euparl members have always been steadfast in their 'for the people' stance and are much well informed than any other parliamentarian in the world, however, its always best to take no chances.EFF, Geist, whomever can, should push forward with a strong publicity effort.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31433300</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Cederic</author>
	<datestamp>1268229600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.</p> </div><p>Interesting. Is that why the Pirate Party in Sweden specifically doesn't want abolition of copyright. Or why the Pirate Party in the UK also wants to retain a period of copyright, during which content creators can commercially exploit their works?</p><p>Is this why people that use P2P networks to share music buy more CDs than people that don't?</p><p>The basic facts are pretty clear: the 'pirate community' (such as it is; I've identified two candidates above) firmly believes that people should be fairly rewarded for their work. This involves payment.</p><p>So the US wont lose all that tax revenue, they wont need to engage in a trade war, and they wont struggle to fund health care. Hell, every other country manages it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays , ever .
Interesting. Is that why the Pirate Party in Sweden specifically does n't want abolition of copyright .
Or why the Pirate Party in the UK also wants to retain a period of copyright , during which content creators can commercially exploit their works ? Is this why people that use P2P networks to share music buy more CDs than people that do n't ? The basic facts are pretty clear : the 'pirate community ' ( such as it is ; I 've identified two candidates above ) firmly believes that people should be fairly rewarded for their work .
This involves payment.So the US wont lose all that tax revenue , they wont need to engage in a trade war , and they wont struggle to fund health care .
Hell , every other country manages it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The goal of the pirate community is simple - nobody pays, ever.
Interesting. Is that why the Pirate Party in Sweden specifically doesn't want abolition of copyright.
Or why the Pirate Party in the UK also wants to retain a period of copyright, during which content creators can commercially exploit their works?Is this why people that use P2P networks to share music buy more CDs than people that don't?The basic facts are pretty clear: the 'pirate community' (such as it is; I've identified two candidates above) firmly believes that people should be fairly rewarded for their work.
This involves payment.So the US wont lose all that tax revenue, they wont need to engage in a trade war, and they wont struggle to fund health care.
Hell, every other country manages it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429432</id>
	<title>Re:i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268251740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM"</p><p>As someone who \_did\_ leave the USA in 2001 to live Brazil, imho you are not making much sense. A USA expatriate can vote, contribute money to a cause and/or candidates, sign online petitions, send letters to congressman,etc. I've done that and more. How much of that have you done yourself while living in the USA?</p><p>I may not be able to attend demonstrations, but imho its just a hey day for the police anyways and doesn't work.</p><p>My own personal thoughts have me wondering: and what has been the effect? I contributed to Obama and voted for him and a democratic controlled congress, yet we are still in 2 wars, gitmo is still open, we are exagerating the threat Iran poses much like bush, Israel / Palestinian peace talks continue to be hopeless, banks got bailed out but still don't lend, etc etc. My only consolation is that mccain and the republicans would most certainly have been worse from my point of view.</p><p>At least in the northeast of Brazil I can ignore politics because there are no wars and given the geography they are unikely, positive current accounts, the lula government has improved the lives of pretty much everybody, and when all else fails, I can get drunk on the beach year round<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) .</p><p>Lastly, imho its misplaced to call me a "freeloader" when I run a USA-based online business in the USA and pay \_lots\_ of taxes.</p><p>Peace!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they do n't like : you 're a loser , you 're a freeloader , and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM " As someone who \ _did \ _ leave the USA in 2001 to live Brazil , imho you are not making much sense .
A USA expatriate can vote , contribute money to a cause and/or candidates , sign online petitions , send letters to congressman,etc .
I 've done that and more .
How much of that have you done yourself while living in the USA ? I may not be able to attend demonstrations , but imho its just a hey day for the police anyways and does n't work.My own personal thoughts have me wondering : and what has been the effect ?
I contributed to Obama and voted for him and a democratic controlled congress , yet we are still in 2 wars , gitmo is still open , we are exagerating the threat Iran poses much like bush , Israel / Palestinian peace talks continue to be hopeless , banks got bailed out but still do n't lend , etc etc .
My only consolation is that mccain and the republicans would most certainly have been worse from my point of view.At least in the northeast of Brazil I can ignore politics because there are no wars and given the geography they are unikely , positive current accounts , the lula government has improved the lives of pretty much everybody , and when all else fails , I can get drunk on the beach year round : - ) .Lastly , imho its misplaced to call me a " freeloader " when I run a USA-based online business in the USA and pay \ _lots \ _ of taxes.Peace !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM"As someone who \_did\_ leave the USA in 2001 to live Brazil, imho you are not making much sense.
A USA expatriate can vote, contribute money to a cause and/or candidates, sign online petitions, send letters to congressman,etc.
I've done that and more.
How much of that have you done yourself while living in the USA?I may not be able to attend demonstrations, but imho its just a hey day for the police anyways and doesn't work.My own personal thoughts have me wondering: and what has been the effect?
I contributed to Obama and voted for him and a democratic controlled congress, yet we are still in 2 wars, gitmo is still open, we are exagerating the threat Iran poses much like bush, Israel / Palestinian peace talks continue to be hopeless, banks got bailed out but still don't lend, etc etc.
My only consolation is that mccain and the republicans would most certainly have been worse from my point of view.At least in the northeast of Brazil I can ignore politics because there are no wars and given the geography they are unikely, positive current accounts, the lula government has improved the lives of pretty much everybody, and when all else fails, I can get drunk on the beach year round :-) .Lastly, imho its misplaced to call me a "freeloader" when I run a USA-based online business in the USA and pay \_lots\_ of taxes.Peace!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31432596</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>http</author>
	<datestamp>1268224260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's the BIG problem:  orthogonal riders in legislation.  Every time I read about one of those, I have to remind myself that there's a secret back room deal involved in both pieces.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's the BIG problem : orthogonal riders in legislation .
Every time I read about one of those , I have to remind myself that there 's a secret back room deal involved in both pieces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's the BIG problem:  orthogonal riders in legislation.
Every time I read about one of those, I have to remind myself that there's a secret back room deal involved in both pieces.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428190</id>
	<title>Re:The 13 votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268245860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about the EU rules but here in France it's unconstitutional to pass an unrelated piece of legislation inside a popular law. The "conseil constitutionnel" has already striked out such laws in the past.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the EU rules but here in France it 's unconstitutional to pass an unrelated piece of legislation inside a popular law .
The " conseil constitutionnel " has already striked out such laws in the past .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the EU rules but here in France it's unconstitutional to pass an unrelated piece of legislation inside a popular law.
The "conseil constitutionnel" has already striked out such laws in the past.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31429138</id>
	<title>Unnecessary controversy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268250300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wish they wouldn't bundle piracy and counterfeiting together.  There are some good measures that almost everyone could agree on and that should be taken against counterfeiting, which by the way, has been rising quickly since the global economic downturn.<p>
Bundling it with a bunch of piracy crap just bring unnecessary controversy.  They seem like two different things to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish they would n't bundle piracy and counterfeiting together .
There are some good measures that almost everyone could agree on and that should be taken against counterfeiting , which by the way , has been rising quickly since the global economic downturn .
Bundling it with a bunch of piracy crap just bring unnecessary controversy .
They seem like two different things to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish they wouldn't bundle piracy and counterfeiting together.
There are some good measures that almost everyone could agree on and that should be taken against counterfeiting, which by the way, has been rising quickly since the global economic downturn.
Bundling it with a bunch of piracy crap just bring unnecessary controversy.
They seem like two different things to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427570</id>
	<title>Thank You EU!</title>
	<author>Nethemas the Great</author>
	<datestamp>1268242800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Once again I'd like to thank the EU for saving the citizens of the U.S. from our corporate led government.  If you're ever in the area, beers are on me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once again I 'd like to thank the EU for saving the citizens of the U.S. from our corporate led government .
If you 're ever in the area , beers are on me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once again I'd like to thank the EU for saving the citizens of the U.S. from our corporate led government.
If you're ever in the area, beers are on me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427618</id>
	<title>Dumbest post I've read in a long, long time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268243040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you have any comprehension of how a democracy works? Don't you understand the role of elected officials is?</p><p>Members of the EU Parliament represent the people that have voted for them and the people should be able to scrutinize every action of theirs. Especially how they vote since they do so on behalf of the people that voted them in.</p><p>If any one of them is orphaned, headlines will give them what they want: Attention. Negative headlines even more so. Journalists will want to ask them about it and consequently they will get an opportunity to explain why they voted the way they did. Then people that agree with them, will know better whom to vote for in the next elections. And if it was a bad thing, well, then the consequence will be precisely what it should be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have any comprehension of how a democracy works ?
Do n't you understand the role of elected officials is ? Members of the EU Parliament represent the people that have voted for them and the people should be able to scrutinize every action of theirs .
Especially how they vote since they do so on behalf of the people that voted them in.If any one of them is orphaned , headlines will give them what they want : Attention .
Negative headlines even more so .
Journalists will want to ask them about it and consequently they will get an opportunity to explain why they voted the way they did .
Then people that agree with them , will know better whom to vote for in the next elections .
And if it was a bad thing , well , then the consequence will be precisely what it should be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have any comprehension of how a democracy works?
Don't you understand the role of elected officials is?Members of the EU Parliament represent the people that have voted for them and the people should be able to scrutinize every action of theirs.
Especially how they vote since they do so on behalf of the people that voted them in.If any one of them is orphaned, headlines will give them what they want: Attention.
Negative headlines even more so.
Journalists will want to ask them about it and consequently they will get an opportunity to explain why they voted the way they did.
Then people that agree with them, will know better whom to vote for in the next elections.
And if it was a bad thing, well, then the consequence will be precisely what it should be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31428230</id>
	<title>Additional Information</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget one thing: Lobbying hasn't fully started on the European Parliament, since it didn't have much power unil the beginning of the year. And, the members of the parliament are very eager right now to show their enforced powers (probably they're really pissed, too, because of their past insignificance and the democratic deficits of the pre-Lissabon EU). This certainly leads to an initial tendency towards non-constructive voting behaviors. And: Members of the European Parliament are not elected directly, they're chosen by their national partys, and as they formerly didn't have any power many idealists or idiots were send there. Now, the parliament is attractive also for people that seek power, and they usually won't be so liberal about shit. Don't expect things to be that clearly citizen-friendly in a couple of years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget one thing : Lobbying has n't fully started on the European Parliament , since it did n't have much power unil the beginning of the year .
And , the members of the parliament are very eager right now to show their enforced powers ( probably they 're really pissed , too , because of their past insignificance and the democratic deficits of the pre-Lissabon EU ) .
This certainly leads to an initial tendency towards non-constructive voting behaviors .
And : Members of the European Parliament are not elected directly , they 're chosen by their national partys , and as they formerly did n't have any power many idealists or idiots were send there .
Now , the parliament is attractive also for people that seek power , and they usually wo n't be so liberal about shit .
Do n't expect things to be that clearly citizen-friendly in a couple of years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget one thing: Lobbying hasn't fully started on the European Parliament, since it didn't have much power unil the beginning of the year.
And, the members of the parliament are very eager right now to show their enforced powers (probably they're really pissed, too, because of their past insignificance and the democratic deficits of the pre-Lissabon EU).
This certainly leads to an initial tendency towards non-constructive voting behaviors.
And: Members of the European Parliament are not elected directly, they're chosen by their national partys, and as they formerly didn't have any power many idealists or idiots were send there.
Now, the parliament is attractive also for people that seek power, and they usually won't be so liberal about shit.
Don't expect things to be that clearly citizen-friendly in a couple of years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427866</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>crazycrazy</author>
	<datestamp>1268244120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are LOTS of reasons to hate ACTA and for me, none of them are piracy related! <br> <br>

Claiming a copyright treaty negotiation must be secret for National Security reasons is just plain wrong.<br> <br>

Bypassing any legislative power to regulate copyrights is wrong.  Using Executive branch treaty negotiations and only giving the legislature a yes/no vote on complex rights and freedom related issues is a very dangerous precedent.<br> <br>

Granting corporations, and or corporate representatives access to the negotiations which ordinary citizens are not is a terrible way to live up to government "of the people, by the people, for the people." <br> <br>

If these negotiations were simply to accomplish what you imply, then why must they be secret, and why are legislatures being intentionally bypassed?</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are LOTS of reasons to hate ACTA and for me , none of them are piracy related !
Claiming a copyright treaty negotiation must be secret for National Security reasons is just plain wrong .
Bypassing any legislative power to regulate copyrights is wrong .
Using Executive branch treaty negotiations and only giving the legislature a yes/no vote on complex rights and freedom related issues is a very dangerous precedent .
Granting corporations , and or corporate representatives access to the negotiations which ordinary citizens are not is a terrible way to live up to government " of the people , by the people , for the people .
" If these negotiations were simply to accomplish what you imply , then why must they be secret , and why are legislatures being intentionally bypassed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are LOTS of reasons to hate ACTA and for me, none of them are piracy related!
Claiming a copyright treaty negotiation must be secret for National Security reasons is just plain wrong.
Bypassing any legislative power to regulate copyrights is wrong.
Using Executive branch treaty negotiations and only giving the legislature a yes/no vote on complex rights and freedom related issues is a very dangerous precedent.
Granting corporations, and or corporate representatives access to the negotiations which ordinary citizens are not is a terrible way to live up to government "of the people, by the people, for the people.
"  

If these negotiations were simply to accomplish what you imply, then why must they be secret, and why are legislatures being intentionally bypassed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427136</id>
	<title>i'm sick of this meme</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1268240880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"i'm going to run to canada if bush is elected! boo hoo!"</p><p>look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it. fleeing means that you don't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions, and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictions</p><p>all of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for. what, you think you fight for something once and it stays that way forever? no, every day is a fight against constant assaults against your freedoms, and this is the way it is, FOREVER, IN EVERY SOCIETY. this is the reality you live in, so grow a fucking backbone, stand your fucking ground, and fight the fucking assholes who infect your society</p><p>to anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM</p><p>we need fighters who will fight for their home, not freeloading whiners</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" i 'm going to run to canada if bush is elected !
boo hoo !
" look you spineless assholes : if your society is going south , stay there and fight for it .
fleeing means that you do n't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions , and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictionsall of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for .
what , you think you fight for something once and it stays that way forever ?
no , every day is a fight against constant assaults against your freedoms , and this is the way it is , FOREVER , IN EVERY SOCIETY .
this is the reality you live in , so grow a fucking backbone , stand your fucking ground , and fight the fucking assholes who infect your societyto anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they do n't like : you 're a loser , you 're a freeloader , and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMwe need fighters who will fight for their home , not freeloading whiners</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"i'm going to run to canada if bush is elected!
boo hoo!
"look you spineless assholes: if your society is going south, stay there and fight for it.
fleeing means that you don't hold much stock in the strength of your own convictions, and instead parasitically depend on someone else to fight for your convictionsall of your freedoms you hold dear must constantly be protected and fought for.
what, you think you fight for something once and it stays that way forever?
no, every day is a fight against constant assaults against your freedoms, and this is the way it is, FOREVER, IN EVERY SOCIETY.
this is the reality you live in, so grow a fucking backbone, stand your fucking ground, and fight the fucking assholes who infect your societyto anyone who threatens to flee the usa because of changes in society they don't like: you're a loser, you're a freeloader, and you ARE PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEMwe need fighters who will fight for their home, not freeloading whiners</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426688</id>
	<title>663:13 !?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can we please, please, please have name and party affiliation of the 13? Thank you very much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we please , please , please have name and party affiliation of the 13 ?
Thank you very much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we please, please, please have name and party affiliation of the 13?
Thank you very much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426752</id>
	<title>Not really...</title>
	<author>teslar</author>
	<datestamp>1268239380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't want to bring the mood down, but this is just a good summary of a bad article. The parliament did <b>not</b> vote <i>against</i> ACTA per se, they voted <i>in favour</i> of resolution <a href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&amp;reference=P7-RC-2010-0154&amp;language=EN" title="europa.eu">RC-B7-0154/2010</a> [europa.eu]. Much better summary is the <a href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopress\_page/026-70281-067-03-11-903-20100309IPR70280-08-03-2010-2010-false/default\_en.htm" title="europa.eu">press release</a> [europa.eu] from the parliament itself.</p><p>In brief, they are mostly pissed off about the secrecy of the negotiations and lack of transparency. The resolution calls on the negotiations being made accessible to the public and the MEPs in a timely manner. So it's not against ACTA, it's against how negotiations are conducted. However, the resolution does also call out against the 3-strike rule and personal searches at EU borders. Regarding warrantless searches, they merely want a "clarification" of clauses that would allow such things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want to bring the mood down , but this is just a good summary of a bad article .
The parliament did not vote against ACTA per se , they voted in favour of resolution RC-B7-0154/2010 [ europa.eu ] .
Much better summary is the press release [ europa.eu ] from the parliament itself.In brief , they are mostly pissed off about the secrecy of the negotiations and lack of transparency .
The resolution calls on the negotiations being made accessible to the public and the MEPs in a timely manner .
So it 's not against ACTA , it 's against how negotiations are conducted .
However , the resolution does also call out against the 3-strike rule and personal searches at EU borders .
Regarding warrantless searches , they merely want a " clarification " of clauses that would allow such things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want to bring the mood down, but this is just a good summary of a bad article.
The parliament did not vote against ACTA per se, they voted in favour of resolution RC-B7-0154/2010 [europa.eu].
Much better summary is the press release [europa.eu] from the parliament itself.In brief, they are mostly pissed off about the secrecy of the negotiations and lack of transparency.
The resolution calls on the negotiations being made accessible to the public and the MEPs in a timely manner.
So it's not against ACTA, it's against how negotiations are conducted.
However, the resolution does also call out against the 3-strike rule and personal searches at EU borders.
Regarding warrantless searches, they merely want a "clarification" of clauses that would allow such things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427318</id>
	<title>One word</title>
	<author>TechForensics</author>
	<datestamp>1268241660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hallelujah.</p><p>Of course this is in Europe.  Can it happen in the US?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hallelujah.Of course this is in Europe .
Can it happen in the US ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hallelujah.Of course this is in Europe.
Can it happen in the US?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31427304</id>
	<title>Re:Reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The second they start taxing an internet connection for the purposes of the piracy, the media companies put themselves at risk of making the same mistake they made in Canada. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1025\_3-5121479.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The second they start taxing an internet connection for the purposes of the piracy , the media companies put themselves at risk of making the same mistake they made in Canada .
http : //news.cnet.com/2100-1025 \ _3-5121479.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The second they start taxing an internet connection for the purposes of the piracy, the media companies put themselves at risk of making the same mistake they made in Canada.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1025\_3-5121479.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_1449259.31426934</parent>
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