<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_10_019234</id>
	<title>Professors Banning Laptops In the Lecture Hall</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1268226840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/" rel="nofollow">Pickens</a> writes <i>"The Washington Post reports that professors have banned laptops from their classrooms at George Washington University, American University, the College of William and Mary, and the University of Virginia, among many others, <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/08/AR2010030804915.html">compelling students to take notes the way their parents did: on paper</a>. A generation ago, academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen, but during the past decade it has evolved into a powerful distraction as wireless Internet connections tempt students away from note-typing to e-mail, blogs, YouTube videos, sports scores, even online gaming. Even when used as glorified typewriters, laptops can turn students into <a href="//ask.slashdot.org/story/10/02/07/1842206/Pen-Still-Mightier-Than-the-Laptop-For-Notetaking">witless stenographers</a>, typing a lecture verbatim <a href="http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/more\_law\_profs\_bring\_down\_hammer\_banning\_laptop\_use\_in\_class/">without listening or understanding</a>. 'The breaking point for me was when I asked a student to comment on an issue, and he said, "Wait a minute, I want to open my computer,"' says David Goldfrank, a Georgetown history professor. 'And I told him, "I don't want to know what's in your computer. I want to know what's in your head."' Some students don't agree with the ban. A student wrote in the University of Denver's newspaper: 'The fact that some students misuse technology is no reason to ban it. After all, <a href="http://www.duclarion.com/opinions/du-professors-who-ban-laptops-anger-student-1.1169828">how many professors ban pens and notebooks</a> after noticing students doodling in the margins?'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pickens writes " The Washington Post reports that professors have banned laptops from their classrooms at George Washington University , American University , the College of William and Mary , and the University of Virginia , among many others , compelling students to take notes the way their parents did : on paper .
A generation ago , academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen , but during the past decade it has evolved into a powerful distraction as wireless Internet connections tempt students away from note-typing to e-mail , blogs , YouTube videos , sports scores , even online gaming .
Even when used as glorified typewriters , laptops can turn students into witless stenographers , typing a lecture verbatim without listening or understanding .
'The breaking point for me was when I asked a student to comment on an issue , and he said , " Wait a minute , I want to open my computer , " ' says David Goldfrank , a Georgetown history professor .
'And I told him , " I do n't want to know what 's in your computer .
I want to know what 's in your head .
" ' Some students do n't agree with the ban .
A student wrote in the University of Denver 's newspaper : 'The fact that some students misuse technology is no reason to ban it .
After all , how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins ?
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pickens writes "The Washington Post reports that professors have banned laptops from their classrooms at George Washington University, American University, the College of William and Mary, and the University of Virginia, among many others, compelling students to take notes the way their parents did: on paper.
A generation ago, academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen, but during the past decade it has evolved into a powerful distraction as wireless Internet connections tempt students away from note-typing to e-mail, blogs, YouTube videos, sports scores, even online gaming.
Even when used as glorified typewriters, laptops can turn students into witless stenographers, typing a lecture verbatim without listening or understanding.
'The breaking point for me was when I asked a student to comment on an issue, and he said, "Wait a minute, I want to open my computer,"' says David Goldfrank, a Georgetown history professor.
'And I told him, "I don't want to know what's in your computer.
I want to know what's in your head.
"' Some students don't agree with the ban.
A student wrote in the University of Denver's newspaper: 'The fact that some students misuse technology is no reason to ban it.
After all, how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins?
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429680</id>
	<title>Banning pens and notebooks not always a bad idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268252940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;. . . how many professors ban pens and notebooks . . .</p><p>Well, actually, when I was in college (when the planets crust was warm and dinosaurs roamed the earth) I did have a great Physics prof who discouraged note taking.  In fact I remember one incident where he asked everyone to put away their pen and paper, gave us a brief explanation and quickly erased what he had written so no one could write it down.  His point was that he wanted us to understand it, not memorize it or simply write it down.  I realize that everyone's different (except me, of course) and that some people learn or listen better by taking notes, or even by doodling (or knitting for that matter), but his point was well taken.  I'm guessing that keeping one's fingers or toes occupied may be helpful to some as an aid to concentration or processing.</p><p>The problem with computers in class is that there are too many mental distractions available.  I know for myself, given the excuse of note taking I would probably end up websurfing or working on another assignment or engaged in some activity that would cause me to be less attentive than is helpful.  But I'm sure that's just me.  Ideally we shouldn't need to take notes anyway, that's what textbooks (and mimeographs) are for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; .
. .
how many professors ban pens and notebooks .
. .Well , actually , when I was in college ( when the planets crust was warm and dinosaurs roamed the earth ) I did have a great Physics prof who discouraged note taking .
In fact I remember one incident where he asked everyone to put away their pen and paper , gave us a brief explanation and quickly erased what he had written so no one could write it down .
His point was that he wanted us to understand it , not memorize it or simply write it down .
I realize that everyone 's different ( except me , of course ) and that some people learn or listen better by taking notes , or even by doodling ( or knitting for that matter ) , but his point was well taken .
I 'm guessing that keeping one 's fingers or toes occupied may be helpful to some as an aid to concentration or processing.The problem with computers in class is that there are too many mental distractions available .
I know for myself , given the excuse of note taking I would probably end up websurfing or working on another assignment or engaged in some activity that would cause me to be less attentive than is helpful .
But I 'm sure that 's just me .
Ideally we should n't need to take notes anyway , that 's what textbooks ( and mimeographs ) are for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;.
. .
how many professors ban pens and notebooks .
. .Well, actually, when I was in college (when the planets crust was warm and dinosaurs roamed the earth) I did have a great Physics prof who discouraged note taking.
In fact I remember one incident where he asked everyone to put away their pen and paper, gave us a brief explanation and quickly erased what he had written so no one could write it down.
His point was that he wanted us to understand it, not memorize it or simply write it down.
I realize that everyone's different (except me, of course) and that some people learn or listen better by taking notes, or even by doodling (or knitting for that matter), but his point was well taken.
I'm guessing that keeping one's fingers or toes occupied may be helpful to some as an aid to concentration or processing.The problem with computers in class is that there are too many mental distractions available.
I know for myself, given the excuse of note taking I would probably end up websurfing or working on another assignment or engaged in some activity that would cause me to be less attentive than is helpful.
But I'm sure that's just me.
Ideally we shouldn't need to take notes anyway, that's what textbooks (and mimeographs) are for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429726</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Stevecrox</author>
	<datestamp>1268253060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think this can cut two ways, during the first two years of university I used a windows mobile phone with a Bluetooth keyboard. This solution worked beautifully because it was small, light and forced me to restructure my notes each evening and put them into a sane format (basically redoing the class). Switching to a laptop hurt me in someways because I didn't need to redo the notes, but then again I suddenly had access to Proteus and Maple (Computer engineering degree) and spent my time using those to improve them.<br> <br>
The downside is they provide a great distraction when your stuck with a dull lecturer. My business lecturers mostly covered case studies I had done for A-Level, read directly from powerpoint slides and took themselves enormously seriously over simple and obvious concepts. The ability to play Tron while they droned on and repeated themselves probably took a easy 70+\% grade down to ~65\%. The again I never fell asleep in their class.<br> <br>
What I think is daft in this article is the type of students they are complaining about would be the same no matter what the medium. Writing with a pen won't add magical qualities to the students that writing with a keyboard took away. <br> <br>
Lastly I don't know if the US is like the UK but a lot of kids do various University courses because they didn't know what else to do and school told them they were good at that subject. I've always thought unless you have a passion for the subject your never going to have any incentive to learn or study properly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this can cut two ways , during the first two years of university I used a windows mobile phone with a Bluetooth keyboard .
This solution worked beautifully because it was small , light and forced me to restructure my notes each evening and put them into a sane format ( basically redoing the class ) .
Switching to a laptop hurt me in someways because I did n't need to redo the notes , but then again I suddenly had access to Proteus and Maple ( Computer engineering degree ) and spent my time using those to improve them .
The downside is they provide a great distraction when your stuck with a dull lecturer .
My business lecturers mostly covered case studies I had done for A-Level , read directly from powerpoint slides and took themselves enormously seriously over simple and obvious concepts .
The ability to play Tron while they droned on and repeated themselves probably took a easy 70 + \ % grade down to ~ 65 \ % .
The again I never fell asleep in their class .
What I think is daft in this article is the type of students they are complaining about would be the same no matter what the medium .
Writing with a pen wo n't add magical qualities to the students that writing with a keyboard took away .
Lastly I do n't know if the US is like the UK but a lot of kids do various University courses because they did n't know what else to do and school told them they were good at that subject .
I 've always thought unless you have a passion for the subject your never going to have any incentive to learn or study properly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this can cut two ways, during the first two years of university I used a windows mobile phone with a Bluetooth keyboard.
This solution worked beautifully because it was small, light and forced me to restructure my notes each evening and put them into a sane format (basically redoing the class).
Switching to a laptop hurt me in someways because I didn't need to redo the notes, but then again I suddenly had access to Proteus and Maple (Computer engineering degree) and spent my time using those to improve them.
The downside is they provide a great distraction when your stuck with a dull lecturer.
My business lecturers mostly covered case studies I had done for A-Level, read directly from powerpoint slides and took themselves enormously seriously over simple and obvious concepts.
The ability to play Tron while they droned on and repeated themselves probably took a easy 70+\% grade down to ~65\%.
The again I never fell asleep in their class.
What I think is daft in this article is the type of students they are complaining about would be the same no matter what the medium.
Writing with a pen won't add magical qualities to the students that writing with a keyboard took away.
Lastly I don't know if the US is like the UK but a lot of kids do various University courses because they didn't know what else to do and school told them they were good at that subject.
I've always thought unless you have a passion for the subject your never going to have any incentive to learn or study properly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425458</id>
	<title>Dog years?</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A generation ago, academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen"</p><p>Are they talking about a canine university? A generation ago academia was debating the use of programmable calculators.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A generation ago , academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen " Are they talking about a canine university ?
A generation ago academia was debating the use of programmable calculators .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A generation ago, academia embraced the laptop as the most welcome classroom innovation since the ballpoint pen"Are they talking about a canine university?
A generation ago academia was debating the use of programmable calculators.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428650</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>mundanetechnomancer</author>
	<datestamp>1268248080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i am, i also take great notes on my laptop, and get some of the highest grades in this class</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i am , i also take great notes on my laptop , and get some of the highest grades in this class</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i am, i also take great notes on my laptop, and get some of the highest grades in this class</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435182</id>
	<title>Idiotic</title>
	<author>Andtalath</author>
	<datestamp>1268338440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's your own duty to perform in class, not your professors.<br>If someone can't focus enough in class with a laptop, they have made a poor choice on implement to help them study, but it doesn't mean that everyone should be punished for those actions.</p><p>Heck, it takes less effort to me to type then it does to write with pencil, I hardly ever use a pen but I type a whole lot, making it way easier for me to do it while doing other things.<br>I've carried on normal conversations while I chatted with people on the internet, no-one of them seemed to notice any lack of attention on my part.<br>With a pencil, I definitely can't talk, I can't look away and errors are annoying to correct.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's your own duty to perform in class , not your professors.If someone ca n't focus enough in class with a laptop , they have made a poor choice on implement to help them study , but it does n't mean that everyone should be punished for those actions.Heck , it takes less effort to me to type then it does to write with pencil , I hardly ever use a pen but I type a whole lot , making it way easier for me to do it while doing other things.I 've carried on normal conversations while I chatted with people on the internet , no-one of them seemed to notice any lack of attention on my part.With a pencil , I definitely ca n't talk , I ca n't look away and errors are annoying to correct .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's your own duty to perform in class, not your professors.If someone can't focus enough in class with a laptop, they have made a poor choice on implement to help them study, but it doesn't mean that everyone should be punished for those actions.Heck, it takes less effort to me to type then it does to write with pencil, I hardly ever use a pen but I type a whole lot, making it way easier for me to do it while doing other things.I've carried on normal conversations while I chatted with people on the internet, no-one of them seemed to notice any lack of attention on my part.With a pencil, I definitely can't talk, I can't look away and errors are annoying to correct.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31447394</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>blake182</author>
	<datestamp>1268316120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well, or at least enjoy playing the show, is an unresponsive crowd.</p></div><p>I'm in a crowd, and the one thing that really makes it hard to respond to a band is when they suck.

</p><p>I'm not the one paid to fix it. I guess we need to work together somehow. But I'm not sure how this is the crowd's fault.

</p><p>Off the top of my head if you sucked less, I'd respond more. No offense. Same with lectures. Same with product presentations. Same with meetings. Same with anything that you want me to participate in. The leader sets the tone.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well , or at least enjoy playing the show , is an unresponsive crowd.I 'm in a crowd , and the one thing that really makes it hard to respond to a band is when they suck .
I 'm not the one paid to fix it .
I guess we need to work together somehow .
But I 'm not sure how this is the crowd 's fault .
Off the top of my head if you sucked less , I 'd respond more .
No offense .
Same with lectures .
Same with product presentations .
Same with meetings .
Same with anything that you want me to participate in .
The leader sets the tone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well, or at least enjoy playing the show, is an unresponsive crowd.I'm in a crowd, and the one thing that really makes it hard to respond to a band is when they suck.
I'm not the one paid to fix it.
I guess we need to work together somehow.
But I'm not sure how this is the crowd's fault.
Off the top of my head if you sucked less, I'd respond more.
No offense.
Same with lectures.
Same with product presentations.
Same with meetings.
Same with anything that you want me to participate in.
The leader sets the tone.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31434618</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>DaFallus</author>
	<datestamp>1268243400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On a somewhat related note, just yesterday I noticed that the rooms in which my grad school classes are taught have a power strip tucked away at the front of each row (basically a long table with attached chairs on a swivel base), with the exception of the first three. At first I thought this was simply because of budgeting or laziness, but the more I think about it the more I wonder if it is to discourage people with laptops from sitting in the first three rows. Of course with iPhones and netbooks getting more than three hours of battery life it probably isn't as effective at dissuading Facebook and YouTube addicts from sitting up front, but I'm still intrigued as to whether or not this is the actual reason.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On a somewhat related note , just yesterday I noticed that the rooms in which my grad school classes are taught have a power strip tucked away at the front of each row ( basically a long table with attached chairs on a swivel base ) , with the exception of the first three .
At first I thought this was simply because of budgeting or laziness , but the more I think about it the more I wonder if it is to discourage people with laptops from sitting in the first three rows .
Of course with iPhones and netbooks getting more than three hours of battery life it probably is n't as effective at dissuading Facebook and YouTube addicts from sitting up front , but I 'm still intrigued as to whether or not this is the actual reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a somewhat related note, just yesterday I noticed that the rooms in which my grad school classes are taught have a power strip tucked away at the front of each row (basically a long table with attached chairs on a swivel base), with the exception of the first three.
At first I thought this was simply because of budgeting or laziness, but the more I think about it the more I wonder if it is to discourage people with laptops from sitting in the first three rows.
Of course with iPhones and netbooks getting more than three hours of battery life it probably isn't as effective at dissuading Facebook and YouTube addicts from sitting up front, but I'm still intrigued as to whether or not this is the actual reason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428258</id>
	<title>my ASU experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as a Student going to Arizona State using laptops, I will state my personal experiences:   I see a lot of people in the back of the class in my BIO 100 class doing facebook, myspace, youtube, mobsters, email, and even playing fps games like medal of honor, bioshock2, etc. On the other hand, I also see some people  continuously taking notes on a tablet pc, or even typing notes verbatim.  I see this more in say my Upper division classes.  I am guilty of all of these cases.  When I would youtube or email or do something other than take notes, my scores suffered.  However, on the other hand if I took notes verbatim or almost verbatim, I also retained more information.  It was a lot easier to score a grade of 84 or higher on a test, basically because I typed all the notes at least once by myself...somehow i retained more information.  In addition to note taking...for classes like programming...you can compile your concepts learned on the fly and see if it works or not...if not you can ask questions.</p><p>Anyway, its not a total fix, but to remedy this...have people with laptops sit in the back of the lecture hall.  No its not totally cool, but this way the slackers playing games or whatever will at least not be in the front of lectures distracting people.  Its just unfortunate for those people trying to do good in school using a laptop.  Since i stopped programming now...i just stopped bringing my laptop to school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as a Student going to Arizona State using laptops , I will state my personal experiences : I see a lot of people in the back of the class in my BIO 100 class doing facebook , myspace , youtube , mobsters , email , and even playing fps games like medal of honor , bioshock2 , etc .
On the other hand , I also see some people continuously taking notes on a tablet pc , or even typing notes verbatim .
I see this more in say my Upper division classes .
I am guilty of all of these cases .
When I would youtube or email or do something other than take notes , my scores suffered .
However , on the other hand if I took notes verbatim or almost verbatim , I also retained more information .
It was a lot easier to score a grade of 84 or higher on a test , basically because I typed all the notes at least once by myself...somehow i retained more information .
In addition to note taking...for classes like programming...you can compile your concepts learned on the fly and see if it works or not...if not you can ask questions.Anyway , its not a total fix , but to remedy this...have people with laptops sit in the back of the lecture hall .
No its not totally cool , but this way the slackers playing games or whatever will at least not be in the front of lectures distracting people .
Its just unfortunate for those people trying to do good in school using a laptop .
Since i stopped programming now...i just stopped bringing my laptop to school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as a Student going to Arizona State using laptops, I will state my personal experiences:   I see a lot of people in the back of the class in my BIO 100 class doing facebook, myspace, youtube, mobsters, email, and even playing fps games like medal of honor, bioshock2, etc.
On the other hand, I also see some people  continuously taking notes on a tablet pc, or even typing notes verbatim.
I see this more in say my Upper division classes.
I am guilty of all of these cases.
When I would youtube or email or do something other than take notes, my scores suffered.
However, on the other hand if I took notes verbatim or almost verbatim, I also retained more information.
It was a lot easier to score a grade of 84 or higher on a test, basically because I typed all the notes at least once by myself...somehow i retained more information.
In addition to note taking...for classes like programming...you can compile your concepts learned on the fly and see if it works or not...if not you can ask questions.Anyway, its not a total fix, but to remedy this...have people with laptops sit in the back of the lecture hall.
No its not totally cool, but this way the slackers playing games or whatever will at least not be in the front of lectures distracting people.
Its just unfortunate for those people trying to do good in school using a laptop.
Since i stopped programming now...i just stopped bringing my laptop to school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425468</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>dtl</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nah...</p><p>I'm giving the lecture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nah...I 'm giving the lecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nah...I'm giving the lecture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425932</id>
	<title>Why are you taking notes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268235720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why are you taking notes? It is distracting you from understanding the subject. Part of the services provided to you by university should be textbooks which cover exactly what was talked about during lecture and video recording of the whole lecture published on the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are you taking notes ?
It is distracting you from understanding the subject .
Part of the services provided to you by university should be textbooks which cover exactly what was talked about during lecture and video recording of the whole lecture published on the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are you taking notes?
It is distracting you from understanding the subject.
Part of the services provided to you by university should be textbooks which cover exactly what was talked about during lecture and video recording of the whole lecture published on the internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425956</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>thebagel</author>
	<datestamp>1268235780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Professors are not teachers.</p></div><p>I don't understand this mentality.  Professors ARE teachers.  They may not be kindergarten teachers, but the idea is the same - their job is to get ideas into your head.  If that means they have to try to make things more interesting, that shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, students should be paying attention.  However, if professors and lecturers truly want their students to be paying attention, they need to be giving them a reason to pay attention.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Professors are not teachers.I do n't understand this mentality .
Professors ARE teachers .
They may not be kindergarten teachers , but the idea is the same - their job is to get ideas into your head .
If that means they have to try to make things more interesting , that should n't be a problem .
Yes , students should be paying attention .
However , if professors and lecturers truly want their students to be paying attention , they need to be giving them a reason to pay attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professors are not teachers.I don't understand this mentality.
Professors ARE teachers.
They may not be kindergarten teachers, but the idea is the same - their job is to get ideas into your head.
If that means they have to try to make things more interesting, that shouldn't be a problem.
Yes, students should be paying attention.
However, if professors and lecturers truly want their students to be paying attention, they need to be giving them a reason to pay attention.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435900</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Nocterro</author>
	<datestamp>1268305740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's another thought: If you don't learn, it's not the professors problem. If I don't work hard, I don't get to bitch at my boss that my job wasn't interesting enough. I get fired.
<p>
University should be where kids meet the real world and start acting like adults, or fail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's another thought : If you do n't learn , it 's not the professors problem .
If I do n't work hard , I do n't get to bitch at my boss that my job was n't interesting enough .
I get fired .
University should be where kids meet the real world and start acting like adults , or fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's another thought: If you don't learn, it's not the professors problem.
If I don't work hard, I don't get to bitch at my boss that my job wasn't interesting enough.
I get fired.
University should be where kids meet the real world and start acting like adults, or fail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425682</id>
	<title>Getting Class Participation.</title>
	<author>Veretax</author>
	<datestamp>1268234160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was in one of those huge Macro Economics classes in College, and one of the great things the prof did was keep about 6-8 walkie talkies in class.  He'd keep one and then he'd pass a few out before class to any student who wanted one, and during the class he'd call back to walkie X and ask a question, or the person with the walkie might ping and he'd stop to let them ask a question.  I loved that about that class.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in one of those huge Macro Economics classes in College , and one of the great things the prof did was keep about 6-8 walkie talkies in class .
He 'd keep one and then he 'd pass a few out before class to any student who wanted one , and during the class he 'd call back to walkie X and ask a question , or the person with the walkie might ping and he 'd stop to let them ask a question .
I loved that about that class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in one of those huge Macro Economics classes in College, and one of the great things the prof did was keep about 6-8 walkie talkies in class.
He'd keep one and then he'd pass a few out before class to any student who wanted one, and during the class he'd call back to walkie X and ask a question, or the person with the walkie might ping and he'd stop to let them ask a question.
I loved that about that class.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</id>
	<title>good move</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268231100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a TA and I attended a math tutorial class as an observer earlier today. I was sitting in the last row. I saw one or two guys with laptop open, playing first-person shooting games.</p><p>When I attended university as a freshmen 8 years ago, laptops are still clunky and not easy to carry around like netbooks. So somewhat we were forced to take down notes by hand.</p><p>In practical lab classes like signal processing, in my day we had to manually copy the signal traces on analogue oscilloscope to the lab notebook. But now, with camera phones, its a matter of taking a snap.</p><p>I am not against new technology. But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a TA and I attended a math tutorial class as an observer earlier today .
I was sitting in the last row .
I saw one or two guys with laptop open , playing first-person shooting games.When I attended university as a freshmen 8 years ago , laptops are still clunky and not easy to carry around like netbooks .
So somewhat we were forced to take down notes by hand.In practical lab classes like signal processing , in my day we had to manually copy the signal traces on analogue oscilloscope to the lab notebook .
But now , with camera phones , its a matter of taking a snap.I am not against new technology .
But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a TA and I attended a math tutorial class as an observer earlier today.
I was sitting in the last row.
I saw one or two guys with laptop open, playing first-person shooting games.When I attended university as a freshmen 8 years ago, laptops are still clunky and not easy to carry around like netbooks.
So somewhat we were forced to take down notes by hand.In practical lab classes like signal processing, in my day we had to manually copy the signal traces on analogue oscilloscope to the lab notebook.
But now, with camera phones, its a matter of taking a snap.I am not against new technology.
But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31436162</id>
	<title>What about those that *need* this though</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268310420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work in HE, and we have some kids that *have* to use laptops - cause they're dys-something-or-other (thick as two short planks/brought up poorly).</p><p>Not only that but because the little angels also need to use certain background colours in Word etc, they're given these laptops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in HE , and we have some kids that * have * to use laptops - cause they 're dys-something-or-other ( thick as two short planks/brought up poorly ) .Not only that but because the little angels also need to use certain background colours in Word etc , they 're given these laptops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in HE, and we have some kids that *have* to use laptops - cause they're dys-something-or-other (thick as two short planks/brought up poorly).Not only that but because the little angels also need to use certain background colours in Word etc, they're given these laptops.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425200</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>precariousgray</author>
	<datestamp>1268231820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to mention it's also a creative endeavor of some sort, as opposed to mindless absorption of memes and various related drivel.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention it 's also a creative endeavor of some sort , as opposed to mindless absorption of memes and various related drivel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention it's also a creative endeavor of some sort, as opposed to mindless absorption of memes and various related drivel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427282</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>Paradigm\_Complex</author>
	<datestamp>1268241480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I actually have in the past with individual professors, and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policy</p></div><p>Consider yourself lucky that the lack of sane justification is sufficient to stop such nonsense wherever you go to school.  In my experience that's rarely in the case.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.</p></div><p>For what it's worth, I've found internet access to be quite helpful in class.  It's not unusual that I've forgotten something the professor assumes you've remembered.  This hits me particularly hard in the autumn after a summer away from academia.  When I can simply Google "taylor series" for a quick reminder and actually understand what's going on in class I benefit quite a lot more then just sitting there lost.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually have in the past with individual professors , and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policyConsider yourself lucky that the lack of sane justification is sufficient to stop such nonsense wherever you go to school .
In my experience that 's rarely in the case.I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.For what it 's worth , I 've found internet access to be quite helpful in class .
It 's not unusual that I 've forgotten something the professor assumes you 've remembered .
This hits me particularly hard in the autumn after a summer away from academia .
When I can simply Google " taylor series " for a quick reminder and actually understand what 's going on in class I benefit quite a lot more then just sitting there lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually have in the past with individual professors, and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policyConsider yourself lucky that the lack of sane justification is sufficient to stop such nonsense wherever you go to school.
In my experience that's rarely in the case.I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.For what it's worth, I've found internet access to be quite helpful in class.
It's not unusual that I've forgotten something the professor assumes you've remembered.
This hits me particularly hard in the autumn after a summer away from academia.
When I can simply Google "taylor series" for a quick reminder and actually understand what's going on in class I benefit quite a lot more then just sitting there lost.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps more importantly, doodling isn't nearly as distracting for those around you as video/gaming/whatever(and yes, I have seen "whatever" to include "porn").<br> <br>

Frankly, it isn't my problem what you are or aren't learning in class. It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off. If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn, though, you've just made it my problem.<br> <br>

When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner, and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images, their attention is going to suffer, whether they like it or not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps more importantly , doodling is n't nearly as distracting for those around you as video/gaming/whatever ( and yes , I have seen " whatever " to include " porn " ) .
Frankly , it is n't my problem what you are or are n't learning in class .
It 's either your money , in which case it is your problem ; or your parent 's money , in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off .
If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn , though , you 've just made it my problem .
When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner , and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images , their attention is going to suffer , whether they like it or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps more importantly, doodling isn't nearly as distracting for those around you as video/gaming/whatever(and yes, I have seen "whatever" to include "porn").
Frankly, it isn't my problem what you are or aren't learning in class.
It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off.
If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn, though, you've just made it my problem.
When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner, and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images, their attention is going to suffer, whether they like it or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31433870</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>PhasmatisApparatus</author>
	<datestamp>1268235240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unlike many of the people posting here, I am actually in classes in which people bring laptops, and use them to watch youtube, play WoW, and Facebook. However, I don't find myself distracted one bit. If you find that you cannot divert your gaze from the excess flashiness of someone's game of WoW, or the boring details of their Facebook friends, then you have bigger problems than your classmates. Also, why should the professor care if people are paying attention to him? It's their money. Oh yes it is, even with financial aid. Do you really think they are going to continue paying for your education when you start failing classes? I think not.<br>
Aside from those obvious points, there remains the many ways that laptops in class can help. For example, I've taken a laptop to one class in order to use wikipedia to fill in various details missed in the sporadic and rambling lectures of some professors. I download the powerpoint slides used by the professors so I don't have to strain my eyes trying to read badly-focused projected text from the back row (I sit in the back row to avoid distracting people, and I hate it when people look over my shoulder anyway).<br>
Luckily, the students still hold enough of a say at the university I am attending that such ridiculous measures would never fly. But if my professors DID demand that laptops be absent from the lectures, I would be one of the few to actually be affected. Those now playing MMORPGs and Facebook games would simply find another source of distraction - perhaps cellphones (remember those? I hear they have 3D networked games and Facebook now. Amazing.) Those distracted by the laptops of others will simply find some spot of dust on the wall to attract their attention, and still not learn anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unlike many of the people posting here , I am actually in classes in which people bring laptops , and use them to watch youtube , play WoW , and Facebook .
However , I do n't find myself distracted one bit .
If you find that you can not divert your gaze from the excess flashiness of someone 's game of WoW , or the boring details of their Facebook friends , then you have bigger problems than your classmates .
Also , why should the professor care if people are paying attention to him ?
It 's their money .
Oh yes it is , even with financial aid .
Do you really think they are going to continue paying for your education when you start failing classes ?
I think not .
Aside from those obvious points , there remains the many ways that laptops in class can help .
For example , I 've taken a laptop to one class in order to use wikipedia to fill in various details missed in the sporadic and rambling lectures of some professors .
I download the powerpoint slides used by the professors so I do n't have to strain my eyes trying to read badly-focused projected text from the back row ( I sit in the back row to avoid distracting people , and I hate it when people look over my shoulder anyway ) .
Luckily , the students still hold enough of a say at the university I am attending that such ridiculous measures would never fly .
But if my professors DID demand that laptops be absent from the lectures , I would be one of the few to actually be affected .
Those now playing MMORPGs and Facebook games would simply find another source of distraction - perhaps cellphones ( remember those ?
I hear they have 3D networked games and Facebook now .
Amazing. ) Those distracted by the laptops of others will simply find some spot of dust on the wall to attract their attention , and still not learn anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unlike many of the people posting here, I am actually in classes in which people bring laptops, and use them to watch youtube, play WoW, and Facebook.
However, I don't find myself distracted one bit.
If you find that you cannot divert your gaze from the excess flashiness of someone's game of WoW, or the boring details of their Facebook friends, then you have bigger problems than your classmates.
Also, why should the professor care if people are paying attention to him?
It's their money.
Oh yes it is, even with financial aid.
Do you really think they are going to continue paying for your education when you start failing classes?
I think not.
Aside from those obvious points, there remains the many ways that laptops in class can help.
For example, I've taken a laptop to one class in order to use wikipedia to fill in various details missed in the sporadic and rambling lectures of some professors.
I download the powerpoint slides used by the professors so I don't have to strain my eyes trying to read badly-focused projected text from the back row (I sit in the back row to avoid distracting people, and I hate it when people look over my shoulder anyway).
Luckily, the students still hold enough of a say at the university I am attending that such ridiculous measures would never fly.
But if my professors DID demand that laptops be absent from the lectures, I would be one of the few to actually be affected.
Those now playing MMORPGs and Facebook games would simply find another source of distraction - perhaps cellphones (remember those?
I hear they have 3D networked games and Facebook now.
Amazing.) Those distracted by the laptops of others will simply find some spot of dust on the wall to attract their attention, and still not learn anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426336</id>
	<title>"turn students into witless stenographers"</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1268237460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found that the lecturers can do that, laptops or no.  In my experience, not that I ever used laptops in lectures, what really turned me into a "witless stenographer" was when lecturers supplied sufficiently inadequate notes that I had to concentrate on writing down *everything they said* rather than understand the lecture.  If I'd instead concentrated on understanding the lecture and failed to grasp a concept I would have been left without a proper reference.  This is particularly the case when lecturers are not following a particular textbook closely (although - having paid for the tuition and exams why should I have to buy a book if it's prerequisite for those?) or when they choose to define "the syllabus" as "what I say in lectures is examinable" so there's no well-defined written guide to what's going to be in the tests you'll sit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found that the lecturers can do that , laptops or no .
In my experience , not that I ever used laptops in lectures , what really turned me into a " witless stenographer " was when lecturers supplied sufficiently inadequate notes that I had to concentrate on writing down * everything they said * rather than understand the lecture .
If I 'd instead concentrated on understanding the lecture and failed to grasp a concept I would have been left without a proper reference .
This is particularly the case when lecturers are not following a particular textbook closely ( although - having paid for the tuition and exams why should I have to buy a book if it 's prerequisite for those ?
) or when they choose to define " the syllabus " as " what I say in lectures is examinable " so there 's no well-defined written guide to what 's going to be in the tests you 'll sit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found that the lecturers can do that, laptops or no.
In my experience, not that I ever used laptops in lectures, what really turned me into a "witless stenographer" was when lecturers supplied sufficiently inadequate notes that I had to concentrate on writing down *everything they said* rather than understand the lecture.
If I'd instead concentrated on understanding the lecture and failed to grasp a concept I would have been left without a proper reference.
This is particularly the case when lecturers are not following a particular textbook closely (although - having paid for the tuition and exams why should I have to buy a book if it's prerequisite for those?
) or when they choose to define "the syllabus" as "what I say in lectures is examinable" so there's no well-defined written guide to what's going to be in the tests you'll sit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426220</id>
	<title>Re:Not your dime...</title>
	<author>godrik</author>
	<datestamp>1268236920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a student is not paying attention in my class, I just kick him out. Because he makes my job more difficult and I want to do my job well. I am not going to report him not being in class/lecture and in fact I just don't care who is here and who is not. But if you are in my lecture/class, you are working on it. Otherwise, go get a coffee, I might even pay for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a student is not paying attention in my class , I just kick him out .
Because he makes my job more difficult and I want to do my job well .
I am not going to report him not being in class/lecture and in fact I just do n't care who is here and who is not .
But if you are in my lecture/class , you are working on it .
Otherwise , go get a coffee , I might even pay for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a student is not paying attention in my class, I just kick him out.
Because he makes my job more difficult and I want to do my job well.
I am not going to report him not being in class/lecture and in fact I just don't care who is here and who is not.
But if you are in my lecture/class, you are working on it.
Otherwise, go get a coffee, I might even pay for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</id>
	<title>Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Alarindris</author>
	<datestamp>1268232060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well, or at least enjoy playing the show, is an unresponsive crowd.<br> <br>

I could be totally off base here, but I'm guessing that the prof's need feedback too.  If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops, the prof's have no idea if anyone is listening at all.  Obviously it's the students' money to burn etc. etc.  But it would probably make it hell to teach a class to essentially nobody.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well , or at least enjoy playing the show , is an unresponsive crowd .
I could be totally off base here , but I 'm guessing that the prof 's need feedback too .
If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops , the prof 's have no idea if anyone is listening at all .
Obviously it 's the students ' money to burn etc .
etc. But it would probably make it hell to teach a class to essentially nobody .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in a band and the one thing that really makes it hard to play well, or at least enjoy playing the show, is an unresponsive crowd.
I could be totally off base here, but I'm guessing that the prof's need feedback too.
If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops, the prof's have no idea if anyone is listening at all.
Obviously it's the students' money to burn etc.
etc.  But it would probably make it hell to teach a class to essentially nobody.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425576</id>
	<title>I never kept notes.</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1268233560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was in the university, I never kept notes. My effort in the class was 100\% on understanding the professor. My co-students kept notes frantically, and some of them were so good that they sold their notes to other students. The result was that I needed to study much less than the final exams than my co-students.</p><p>What is the point of taking notes? the material taught in the classroom is available in books and online. No student should keep notes; they all must pay attention to the teacher and participate in the class.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was in the university , I never kept notes .
My effort in the class was 100 \ % on understanding the professor .
My co-students kept notes frantically , and some of them were so good that they sold their notes to other students .
The result was that I needed to study much less than the final exams than my co-students.What is the point of taking notes ?
the material taught in the classroom is available in books and online .
No student should keep notes ; they all must pay attention to the teacher and participate in the class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was in the university, I never kept notes.
My effort in the class was 100\% on understanding the professor.
My co-students kept notes frantically, and some of them were so good that they sold their notes to other students.
The result was that I needed to study much less than the final exams than my co-students.What is the point of taking notes?
the material taught in the classroom is available in books and online.
No student should keep notes; they all must pay attention to the teacher and participate in the class.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425324</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1268232360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Doodling with pen and paper doesn't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.</p></div><p>Making paper planes out of the notes and throwing them at the lecturer does absorb the attention a lot. But at least it made Analytical Chemistry fun!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Doodling with pen and paper does n't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.Making paper planes out of the notes and throwing them at the lecturer does absorb the attention a lot .
But at least it made Analytical Chemistry fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doodling with pen and paper doesn't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.Making paper planes out of the notes and throwing them at the lecturer does absorb the attention a lot.
But at least it made Analytical Chemistry fun!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429024</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268249760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would typically agree with you, but there are some fairly common situations where I disagree- most prominently that comes to mind is discussion sections of classes, where the whole classes understanding of a subject is enhanced by each individuals contribution. Even in typical lectures, it is common for the lecturer to call on students and ask them questions, to keep the students engaged and also to gauge how well they are picking up the material. If the tuning out due to laptops becomes excessive, I can understand why the professor would become frustrated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would typically agree with you , but there are some fairly common situations where I disagree- most prominently that comes to mind is discussion sections of classes , where the whole classes understanding of a subject is enhanced by each individuals contribution .
Even in typical lectures , it is common for the lecturer to call on students and ask them questions , to keep the students engaged and also to gauge how well they are picking up the material .
If the tuning out due to laptops becomes excessive , I can understand why the professor would become frustrated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would typically agree with you, but there are some fairly common situations where I disagree- most prominently that comes to mind is discussion sections of classes, where the whole classes understanding of a subject is enhanced by each individuals contribution.
Even in typical lectures, it is common for the lecturer to call on students and ask them questions, to keep the students engaged and also to gauge how well they are picking up the material.
If the tuning out due to laptops becomes excessive, I can understand why the professor would become frustrated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427032</id>
	<title>I tottally agree with this</title>
	<author>anexkahn</author>
	<datestamp>1268240400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to take my laptop to class every day, but I found that in most classes it was merely a distraction.  The times I sat in the back row I could see everyone elses computers as well.  The majority of the time these people were also distracted.  The only classes of the ones that I took that really benefited were my programming classes, and even then, it wasn't every class period.

I know that for some their experiences will be different.  But so far in almost every instance, the people with computers were very distracted from what was going on in class.  And when you start watching a youtube video in class, it distracts the people sitting behind you too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to take my laptop to class every day , but I found that in most classes it was merely a distraction .
The times I sat in the back row I could see everyone elses computers as well .
The majority of the time these people were also distracted .
The only classes of the ones that I took that really benefited were my programming classes , and even then , it was n't every class period .
I know that for some their experiences will be different .
But so far in almost every instance , the people with computers were very distracted from what was going on in class .
And when you start watching a youtube video in class , it distracts the people sitting behind you too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to take my laptop to class every day, but I found that in most classes it was merely a distraction.
The times I sat in the back row I could see everyone elses computers as well.
The majority of the time these people were also distracted.
The only classes of the ones that I took that really benefited were my programming classes, and even then, it wasn't every class period.
I know that for some their experiences will be different.
But so far in almost every instance, the people with computers were very distracted from what was going on in class.
And when you start watching a youtube video in class, it distracts the people sitting behind you too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435748</id>
	<title>reverse the problem virtual university</title>
	<author>max847</author>
	<datestamp>1268303220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>why not just move the school lock stock and barrel into a virtual environment?  it would be a MUCH more effecient use of our tax dollers  and be a much more powerful learning tool than some dry monotone teacher
want to learn french  hop in a teleporter and pop over to a virtual france
want to study mars  take a shuttle and  walk on its virtual surface.
want to study shakespear  or a past president? pop into a time portal and go visit them.
you can even have a traditional university location with much more powerful learning tools that would be far too expensive or impossible  to aquire in a real school.

so is this a godd idea?  bad?  why?</htmltext>
<tokenext>why not just move the school lock stock and barrel into a virtual environment ?
it would be a MUCH more effecient use of our tax dollers and be a much more powerful learning tool than some dry monotone teacher want to learn french hop in a teleporter and pop over to a virtual france want to study mars take a shuttle and walk on its virtual surface .
want to study shakespear or a past president ?
pop into a time portal and go visit them .
you can even have a traditional university location with much more powerful learning tools that would be far too expensive or impossible to aquire in a real school .
so is this a godd idea ?
bad ? why ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why not just move the school lock stock and barrel into a virtual environment?
it would be a MUCH more effecient use of our tax dollers  and be a much more powerful learning tool than some dry monotone teacher
want to learn french  hop in a teleporter and pop over to a virtual france
want to study mars  take a shuttle and  walk on its virtual surface.
want to study shakespear  or a past president?
pop into a time portal and go visit them.
you can even have a traditional university location with much more powerful learning tools that would be far too expensive or impossible  to aquire in a real school.
so is this a godd idea?
bad?  why?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31480374</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268657820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a lecturer myself (and it would seem I'm not such a bad one), so I feel I can speak with some confidence on the matter. You are right that it's crucial to make lectures attractive and entertaining. The lecturer does indeed need to capture the attention of the students, and this is, indeed, a competition with the other distracting elements that are present in the room.</p><p>You are, however, wrong in two respects:</p><ol><li>It is not true that people give their undivided attention to one thing. Therefore, even the best presented, most attention-grabbing, most entertaining lecture would still result in less information being retained by the students if there are other powerful sources of distraction in the room. The need for well-presented lectures does not obviate the need to eliminate sources of distraction. </li><li>The <i>purpose</i> of the lecture is not to be distracting. It is to transmit information in a durable fashion. Being entertaining and capable of captivating the students' attention is a means to an end, and it is not true to say that both are independent: you effort of grabbing attention will come at a cost in how much you can present, or how deeply you can treat the subject (and vice-versa).  In contrast, the only purpose of a game is to entertain, and it appeals to much more low-level brain functions than a typical lecture would. Trying to compete for attention with a FPS game when explaining mathematical equations is a losing proposition, however good you may be at presenting your stuff. Similarly, an advertisement or even a political debate does <b>not</b> try to inform you of anything, quite the opposite: typically it will actually try to convince you of something in spite of objective facts. Capturing a person's attention for 50 seconds and leaving them with the subliminal feeling that "A is good" is a completely different game than trying to convey advanced scientific concepts.</li></ol><p>Finally, I would strongly argue that removing sources of distraction makes the environment seem <i>less</i> hostile to a student that is interesting in the material. I am biased by the fact that I teach only master's courses, and that those students are supposed to be interested in the material to begin with. But I have a strong conviction making the learning environment easier on the students (easier for learning, that is) makes it feel less hostile under any circumstances.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a lecturer myself ( and it would seem I 'm not such a bad one ) , so I feel I can speak with some confidence on the matter .
You are right that it 's crucial to make lectures attractive and entertaining .
The lecturer does indeed need to capture the attention of the students , and this is , indeed , a competition with the other distracting elements that are present in the room.You are , however , wrong in two respects : It is not true that people give their undivided attention to one thing .
Therefore , even the best presented , most attention-grabbing , most entertaining lecture would still result in less information being retained by the students if there are other powerful sources of distraction in the room .
The need for well-presented lectures does not obviate the need to eliminate sources of distraction .
The purpose of the lecture is not to be distracting .
It is to transmit information in a durable fashion .
Being entertaining and capable of captivating the students ' attention is a means to an end , and it is not true to say that both are independent : you effort of grabbing attention will come at a cost in how much you can present , or how deeply you can treat the subject ( and vice-versa ) .
In contrast , the only purpose of a game is to entertain , and it appeals to much more low-level brain functions than a typical lecture would .
Trying to compete for attention with a FPS game when explaining mathematical equations is a losing proposition , however good you may be at presenting your stuff .
Similarly , an advertisement or even a political debate does not try to inform you of anything , quite the opposite : typically it will actually try to convince you of something in spite of objective facts .
Capturing a person 's attention for 50 seconds and leaving them with the subliminal feeling that " A is good " is a completely different game than trying to convey advanced scientific concepts.Finally , I would strongly argue that removing sources of distraction makes the environment seem less hostile to a student that is interesting in the material .
I am biased by the fact that I teach only master 's courses , and that those students are supposed to be interested in the material to begin with .
But I have a strong conviction making the learning environment easier on the students ( easier for learning , that is ) makes it feel less hostile under any circumstances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a lecturer myself (and it would seem I'm not such a bad one), so I feel I can speak with some confidence on the matter.
You are right that it's crucial to make lectures attractive and entertaining.
The lecturer does indeed need to capture the attention of the students, and this is, indeed, a competition with the other distracting elements that are present in the room.You are, however, wrong in two respects:It is not true that people give their undivided attention to one thing.
Therefore, even the best presented, most attention-grabbing, most entertaining lecture would still result in less information being retained by the students if there are other powerful sources of distraction in the room.
The need for well-presented lectures does not obviate the need to eliminate sources of distraction.
The purpose of the lecture is not to be distracting.
It is to transmit information in a durable fashion.
Being entertaining and capable of captivating the students' attention is a means to an end, and it is not true to say that both are independent: you effort of grabbing attention will come at a cost in how much you can present, or how deeply you can treat the subject (and vice-versa).
In contrast, the only purpose of a game is to entertain, and it appeals to much more low-level brain functions than a typical lecture would.
Trying to compete for attention with a FPS game when explaining mathematical equations is a losing proposition, however good you may be at presenting your stuff.
Similarly, an advertisement or even a political debate does not try to inform you of anything, quite the opposite: typically it will actually try to convince you of something in spite of objective facts.
Capturing a person's attention for 50 seconds and leaving them with the subliminal feeling that "A is good" is a completely different game than trying to convey advanced scientific concepts.Finally, I would strongly argue that removing sources of distraction makes the environment seem less hostile to a student that is interesting in the material.
I am biased by the fact that I teach only master's courses, and that those students are supposed to be interested in the material to begin with.
But I have a strong conviction making the learning environment easier on the students (easier for learning, that is) makes it feel less hostile under any circumstances.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429650</id>
	<title>No need for a ban</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268252820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Laptop -&gt; Back rows, mandatory.<br>And everyone is happy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Laptop - &gt; Back rows , mandatory.And everyone is happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Laptop -&gt; Back rows, mandatory.And everyone is happy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425418</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>tophermeyer</author>
	<datestamp>1268232840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
<p><div class="quote"><p>Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.</p></div><p>With respect friend, I'm not sure when you went to college.  I graduated in 2006, "nannying" was exactly what was going on.  My school was filled with kids that had graduated high school but had no idea what they wanted to do with their lives, and had no interest in growing up and being responsible.  As a student that paid out a lot of money for the ability to attend those lectures, I expected that the other students in the room would show a little bit of respect to their peers.  If myspace or youtube is so important that a person just can't bear to tear yourself away and be an adult for 90 minutes, they shouldn't bother coming into class. Or they should have sought out a more ADD friendly higher education option (like online universities).</p><p>Few things bothered me more than having my professors slow down their lecture or the class conversation to accommodate someone that wasn't paying full attention.  Personally I found it disrespectful and selfish.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing how this is college , I 'm dumbfounded by the " nannying " going on here.With respect friend , I 'm not sure when you went to college .
I graduated in 2006 , " nannying " was exactly what was going on .
My school was filled with kids that had graduated high school but had no idea what they wanted to do with their lives , and had no interest in growing up and being responsible .
As a student that paid out a lot of money for the ability to attend those lectures , I expected that the other students in the room would show a little bit of respect to their peers .
If myspace or youtube is so important that a person just ca n't bear to tear yourself away and be an adult for 90 minutes , they should n't bother coming into class .
Or they should have sought out a more ADD friendly higher education option ( like online universities ) .Few things bothered me more than having my professors slow down their lecture or the class conversation to accommodate someone that was n't paying full attention .
Personally I found it disrespectful and selfish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.With respect friend, I'm not sure when you went to college.
I graduated in 2006, "nannying" was exactly what was going on.
My school was filled with kids that had graduated high school but had no idea what they wanted to do with their lives, and had no interest in growing up and being responsible.
As a student that paid out a lot of money for the ability to attend those lectures, I expected that the other students in the room would show a little bit of respect to their peers.
If myspace or youtube is so important that a person just can't bear to tear yourself away and be an adult for 90 minutes, they shouldn't bother coming into class.
Or they should have sought out a more ADD friendly higher education option (like online universities).Few things bothered me more than having my professors slow down their lecture or the class conversation to accommodate someone that wasn't paying full attention.
Personally I found it disrespectful and selfish.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31434780</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>mark-t</author>
	<datestamp>1268245860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off."</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
No.  A large amount of it is government funded in many cases.  Unless one is going to a private school, only a relatively small portion of the total cost of education is directly covered by the tuition fees that are paid by the student</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's either your money , in which case it is your problem ; or your parent 's money , in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off .
" No .
A large amount of it is government funded in many cases .
Unless one is going to a private school , only a relatively small portion of the total cost of education is directly covered by the tuition fees that are paid by the student</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off.
"

No.
A large amount of it is government funded in many cases.
Unless one is going to a private school, only a relatively small portion of the total cost of education is directly covered by the tuition fees that are paid by the student
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431388</id>
	<title>Just like dealing with security</title>
	<author>tompaulco</author>
	<datestamp>1268217660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This sounds just like my company having to deal with security from multiple different clients who all believe security means different things. On the one hand, you have some colleges who want to ban laptops from classrooms. On the other hand, you have colleges which REQUIRE you to bring a laptop.<br>
Sore subject anyway, as I just had to part with $1000 for a laptop for my college bound stepson. He was disappointed that I didn't spring for the 6GB of memory on one model and just got the base 3 GB. I'm sorry, but my own laptop only has 2 GB of memory and I run multiple applications including OCR, and I never even use the 2 GB. There is no point throwing spare battery power away keeping 4 GB of memory alive that is never going to be used for anything. Of course this is from the generation of kids who go through a computer class in high school and come out knowing how to surf for porn and how to burn illegally downloaded music and games, but not know that Microsoft Word would be an example of a program to use for writing a document.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds just like my company having to deal with security from multiple different clients who all believe security means different things .
On the one hand , you have some colleges who want to ban laptops from classrooms .
On the other hand , you have colleges which REQUIRE you to bring a laptop .
Sore subject anyway , as I just had to part with $ 1000 for a laptop for my college bound stepson .
He was disappointed that I did n't spring for the 6GB of memory on one model and just got the base 3 GB .
I 'm sorry , but my own laptop only has 2 GB of memory and I run multiple applications including OCR , and I never even use the 2 GB .
There is no point throwing spare battery power away keeping 4 GB of memory alive that is never going to be used for anything .
Of course this is from the generation of kids who go through a computer class in high school and come out knowing how to surf for porn and how to burn illegally downloaded music and games , but not know that Microsoft Word would be an example of a program to use for writing a document .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds just like my company having to deal with security from multiple different clients who all believe security means different things.
On the one hand, you have some colleges who want to ban laptops from classrooms.
On the other hand, you have colleges which REQUIRE you to bring a laptop.
Sore subject anyway, as I just had to part with $1000 for a laptop for my college bound stepson.
He was disappointed that I didn't spring for the 6GB of memory on one model and just got the base 3 GB.
I'm sorry, but my own laptop only has 2 GB of memory and I run multiple applications including OCR, and I never even use the 2 GB.
There is no point throwing spare battery power away keeping 4 GB of memory alive that is never going to be used for anything.
Of course this is from the generation of kids who go through a computer class in high school and come out knowing how to surf for porn and how to burn illegally downloaded music and games, but not know that Microsoft Word would be an example of a program to use for writing a document.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425348</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Angostura</author>
	<datestamp>1268232480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's madness, I know. The idea that teachers might want to think about the best way to ensure that the information they are trying to impart is absorbed and retained by their students.</p><p>When I was a student, I found the best way to enjoy lectures was with my eyes closed, listening to  my Walkman. I didn't disturb anyone, so I have no idea why the lecturer took exception to my stance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's madness , I know .
The idea that teachers might want to think about the best way to ensure that the information they are trying to impart is absorbed and retained by their students.When I was a student , I found the best way to enjoy lectures was with my eyes closed , listening to my Walkman .
I did n't disturb anyone , so I have no idea why the lecturer took exception to my stance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's madness, I know.
The idea that teachers might want to think about the best way to ensure that the information they are trying to impart is absorbed and retained by their students.When I was a student, I found the best way to enjoy lectures was with my eyes closed, listening to  my Walkman.
I didn't disturb anyone, so I have no idea why the lecturer took exception to my stance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428124</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>pizzaandwine</author>
	<datestamp>1268245380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.</p> </div><p>Read this while sitting in class. Luckily I'm a TA who sits at the back of the room who wanders around giving the evil-eye to students putzing around on their laptops. (And high fives to the one who takes notes in vim with Markdown.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>These days , the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot .
Read this while sitting in class .
Luckily I 'm a TA who sits at the back of the room who wanders around giving the evil-eye to students putzing around on their laptops .
( And high fives to the one who takes notes in vim with Markdown .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext> These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.
Read this while sitting in class.
Luckily I'm a TA who sits at the back of the room who wanders around giving the evil-eye to students putzing around on their laptops.
(And high fives to the one who takes notes in vim with Markdown.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425334</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed. I have a few professors that have tried this stunt and I'll let them have it if their class is super-interesting, but if I'm ever bored or have to sit through material I already understand for an hour while I could be working, I lower their rating at the end.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
I have a few professors that have tried this stunt and I 'll let them have it if their class is super-interesting , but if I 'm ever bored or have to sit through material I already understand for an hour while I could be working , I lower their rating at the end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
I have a few professors that have tried this stunt and I'll let them have it if their class is super-interesting, but if I'm ever bored or have to sit through material I already understand for an hour while I could be working, I lower their rating at the end.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426106</id>
	<title>Re:another way to attack this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268236500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Totally agree. In every "hard" class I took, everyone paid attention and we covered much more material. The problem, of course, is failing dozens of student who expect the class to be easy but the solution is to have an early quiz worth 10\% of grade which is exceedingly difficult.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Totally agree .
In every " hard " class I took , everyone paid attention and we covered much more material .
The problem , of course , is failing dozens of student who expect the class to be easy but the solution is to have an early quiz worth 10 \ % of grade which is exceedingly difficult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Totally agree.
In every "hard" class I took, everyone paid attention and we covered much more material.
The problem, of course, is failing dozens of student who expect the class to be easy but the solution is to have an early quiz worth 10\% of grade which is exceedingly difficult.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426268</id>
	<title>One solution NEVER fits all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268237220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In other words, quit fucking banning things just because it doesn't work for you! Some people use their laptops for distractions. For others, it is the greatest tool ever for learning and retaining information. Just because some idiot pissed you off by not learning the material (that he's paying you to ignore) doesn't mean you need to ban EVERYONE from using such a fantastic tool.</p><p>One size NEVER fits all. I really wish people would quit trying to push all the square pegs into the round holes. It just doesn't work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words , quit fucking banning things just because it does n't work for you !
Some people use their laptops for distractions .
For others , it is the greatest tool ever for learning and retaining information .
Just because some idiot pissed you off by not learning the material ( that he 's paying you to ignore ) does n't mean you need to ban EVERYONE from using such a fantastic tool.One size NEVER fits all .
I really wish people would quit trying to push all the square pegs into the round holes .
It just does n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other words, quit fucking banning things just because it doesn't work for you!
Some people use their laptops for distractions.
For others, it is the greatest tool ever for learning and retaining information.
Just because some idiot pissed you off by not learning the material (that he's paying you to ignore) doesn't mean you need to ban EVERYONE from using such a fantastic tool.One size NEVER fits all.
I really wish people would quit trying to push all the square pegs into the round holes.
It just doesn't work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425482</id>
	<title>Speaking as an old coot...</title>
	<author>IANAAC</author>
	<datestamp>1268233140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I first went to college, the only place you could find any type of computer was in the lab, so taking notes by hand in a spiral-bound was the only option.
<p>
I went back to school 20 years later to get another degree, Tried taking notes on a laptop and went back to simple handwritten notes. Here's why: I found that I retained much more when I went back over my handwritten notes, then reorganized them on my laptop.  Yes, it was more time-consuming, but I was effectively going over all the information twice and reinforcing what was taught. I was also keeping up my handwriting skills, something I believe is sorely lacking in today's youth.
</p><p>
I wonder how many students today just enter their notes on a laptop and forget about them until finals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I first went to college , the only place you could find any type of computer was in the lab , so taking notes by hand in a spiral-bound was the only option .
I went back to school 20 years later to get another degree , Tried taking notes on a laptop and went back to simple handwritten notes .
Here 's why : I found that I retained much more when I went back over my handwritten notes , then reorganized them on my laptop .
Yes , it was more time-consuming , but I was effectively going over all the information twice and reinforcing what was taught .
I was also keeping up my handwriting skills , something I believe is sorely lacking in today 's youth .
I wonder how many students today just enter their notes on a laptop and forget about them until finals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I first went to college, the only place you could find any type of computer was in the lab, so taking notes by hand in a spiral-bound was the only option.
I went back to school 20 years later to get another degree, Tried taking notes on a laptop and went back to simple handwritten notes.
Here's why: I found that I retained much more when I went back over my handwritten notes, then reorganized them on my laptop.
Yes, it was more time-consuming, but I was effectively going over all the information twice and reinforcing what was taught.
I was also keeping up my handwriting skills, something I believe is sorely lacking in today's youth.
I wonder how many students today just enter their notes on a laptop and forget about them until finals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31430708</id>
	<title>If students aren't learning</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268214420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The test should make it obvious.</p><p>Don't punish all the students because some of them slack off.</p><p>They learn, or they fail.  or they adapt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The test should make it obvious.Do n't punish all the students because some of them slack off.They learn , or they fail .
or they adapt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The test should make it obvious.Don't punish all the students because some of them slack off.They learn, or they fail.
or they adapt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427052</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a lot easier for me to kick you out of my class. My class, my rules. Don't like it? Drop the class and find some other instructor who will cater to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a lot easier for me to kick you out of my class .
My class , my rules .
Do n't like it ?
Drop the class and find some other instructor who will cater to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a lot easier for me to kick you out of my class.
My class, my rules.
Don't like it?
Drop the class and find some other instructor who will cater to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425654</id>
	<title>They are right</title>
	<author>gweihir</author>
	<datestamp>1268233980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Taking notes on paper in real-time was the most valuable learning method during my studies. It forces you to understand what the lecturer is explaining, because you are typically to slow to copy verbatim, you you have to accurately summarize. Yes, it is stressful, but it is effort well spent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Taking notes on paper in real-time was the most valuable learning method during my studies .
It forces you to understand what the lecturer is explaining , because you are typically to slow to copy verbatim , you you have to accurately summarize .
Yes , it is stressful , but it is effort well spent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Taking notes on paper in real-time was the most valuable learning method during my studies.
It forces you to understand what the lecturer is explaining, because you are typically to slow to copy verbatim, you you have to accurately summarize.
Yes, it is stressful, but it is effort well spent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428212</id>
	<title>Try letting the students fail!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268245920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really?  While I understand the Professors' arguments regarding the distractions, there's an easy to fix the problem.  FAIL THE STUDENTS!  If they don't pass a course because they couldn't take notes on their computers or retain knowledge, then don't pass the student.  Period.  If the student can't pass the course, then he/she might think again when accessing Facebook while in class.  And, who knows, the student may learn a little personal responsibility after the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time repeating the same class.  And if not, so what? Sounds like a new revenue stream for the school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
While I understand the Professors ' arguments regarding the distractions , there 's an easy to fix the problem .
FAIL THE STUDENTS !
If they do n't pass a course because they could n't take notes on their computers or retain knowledge , then do n't pass the student .
Period. If the student ca n't pass the course , then he/she might think again when accessing Facebook while in class .
And , who knows , the student may learn a little personal responsibility after the 2nd , 3rd or 4th time repeating the same class .
And if not , so what ?
Sounds like a new revenue stream for the school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
While I understand the Professors' arguments regarding the distractions, there's an easy to fix the problem.
FAIL THE STUDENTS!
If they don't pass a course because they couldn't take notes on their computers or retain knowledge, then don't pass the student.
Period.  If the student can't pass the course, then he/she might think again when accessing Facebook while in class.
And, who knows, the student may learn a little personal responsibility after the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time repeating the same class.
And if not, so what?
Sounds like a new revenue stream for the school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428756</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>Basement\_Cat</author>
	<datestamp>1268248560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm sure being confrontational about bringing your toy to class will build a career for you. Sales, maybe, or even college administration.

Bottom line -- in higher ed, what the instructor says, goes. Students don't dictate terms; they adapt or get the hell out.

I'll do my best to deliver worthwhile content in an engaging manner, challenge you to think and learn, and assess your progress fairly. if you can't keep your end of the bargain without relying on a search engine for your knowledge...well, good luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure being confrontational about bringing your toy to class will build a career for you .
Sales , maybe , or even college administration .
Bottom line -- in higher ed , what the instructor says , goes .
Students do n't dictate terms ; they adapt or get the hell out .
I 'll do my best to deliver worthwhile content in an engaging manner , challenge you to think and learn , and assess your progress fairly .
if you ca n't keep your end of the bargain without relying on a search engine for your knowledge...well , good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure being confrontational about bringing your toy to class will build a career for you.
Sales, maybe, or even college administration.
Bottom line -- in higher ed, what the instructor says, goes.
Students don't dictate terms; they adapt or get the hell out.
I'll do my best to deliver worthwhile content in an engaging manner, challenge you to think and learn, and assess your progress fairly.
if you can't keep your end of the bargain without relying on a search engine for your knowledge...well, good luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425514</id>
	<title>Re:Not your dime...</title>
	<author>jo42</author>
	<datestamp>1268233260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the kids want to piss away their parents money going to college and end up working at Taco Bell as a career, then I agree, they should have that freedom of choice. I mean, how else is the Idiocracy going to create itself?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the kids want to piss away their parents money going to college and end up working at Taco Bell as a career , then I agree , they should have that freedom of choice .
I mean , how else is the Idiocracy going to create itself ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the kids want to piss away their parents money going to college and end up working at Taco Bell as a career, then I agree, they should have that freedom of choice.
I mean, how else is the Idiocracy going to create itself?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>gsslay</author>
	<datestamp>1268232960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>College students are not kindergarten kids.  Professors are not teachers.</p><p>College learning isn't fun and games, before a five minute nap and a carton of OJ.  If the students are so attention-deficit that they have difficult maintaining concentration on anything that isn't presented like a shopping channel, then perhaps they should go play and leave the college learning to the grown-ups.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>College students are not kindergarten kids .
Professors are not teachers.College learning is n't fun and games , before a five minute nap and a carton of OJ .
If the students are so attention-deficit that they have difficult maintaining concentration on anything that is n't presented like a shopping channel , then perhaps they should go play and leave the college learning to the grown-ups .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>College students are not kindergarten kids.
Professors are not teachers.College learning isn't fun and games, before a five minute nap and a carton of OJ.
If the students are so attention-deficit that they have difficult maintaining concentration on anything that isn't presented like a shopping channel, then perhaps they should go play and leave the college learning to the grown-ups.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425768</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>bigdavex</author>
	<datestamp>1268234760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's. That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'. The lecturer doesn't (or shouldn't) take personal interest in how you understand, they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord. If you just type everything up and learn later on, that's your business.</p></div></blockquote><p>My opinion is that a lecture is an innefficient way to transfer knowledge and frankly I don't understand why we do so much of it.  If the students are passive, then the lecture is like a book or movie but with added logistics, cost, and wasted time.  The professor in the article wants to run a class.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How someone learns is their own business , not the lecturer 's .
That 's why it 's a lecture and not a 'class' .
The lecturer does n't ( or should n't ) take personal interest in how you understand , they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord .
If you just type everything up and learn later on , that 's your business.My opinion is that a lecture is an innefficient way to transfer knowledge and frankly I do n't understand why we do so much of it .
If the students are passive , then the lecture is like a book or movie but with added logistics , cost , and wasted time .
The professor in the article wants to run a class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's.
That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'.
The lecturer doesn't (or shouldn't) take personal interest in how you understand, they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord.
If you just type everything up and learn later on, that's your business.My opinion is that a lecture is an innefficient way to transfer knowledge and frankly I don't understand why we do so much of it.
If the students are passive, then the lecture is like a book or movie but with added logistics, cost, and wasted time.
The professor in the article wants to run a class.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31432116</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1268221140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem I kept running into is, how do you make diagrams and equations in an efficient manner on a computer?  Computers seem to fall short in providing a fast and efficient way to draw diagrams.  There is only so much time to take down the information, and note taking programs don't do well with adding sketches to text.</p><p>I can't think of a class that I had that didn't benefit from having diagrams, except maybe history, though the need for rough maps might arise.  Even English benefits from diagrams.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem I kept running into is , how do you make diagrams and equations in an efficient manner on a computer ?
Computers seem to fall short in providing a fast and efficient way to draw diagrams .
There is only so much time to take down the information , and note taking programs do n't do well with adding sketches to text.I ca n't think of a class that I had that did n't benefit from having diagrams , except maybe history , though the need for rough maps might arise .
Even English benefits from diagrams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem I kept running into is, how do you make diagrams and equations in an efficient manner on a computer?
Computers seem to fall short in providing a fast and efficient way to draw diagrams.
There is only so much time to take down the information, and note taking programs don't do well with adding sketches to text.I can't think of a class that I had that didn't benefit from having diagrams, except maybe history, though the need for rough maps might arise.
Even English benefits from diagrams.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425608</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>onionman</author>
	<datestamp>1268233740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tell my students that they can do whatever they like <b>provided it doesn't distract others</b>.  I also don't take attendance because my students are adults and they can decide for themselves if they want to attend or not.  Normally, there's a pretty high correlation between participation and final grade, but having been a student who skipped every (non-test) class meeting of Freshman Psych and still got an 'A', I'm not about to penalize students who have a better use for their time.</p><p>So, why waste your time surfing in my class when you can do it from a much more comfortable location?</p><p>Here's a hint for the rest of you who do attend class and take notes: don't write down every damn thing!  Especially when a course is based from a textbook, or the notes are on-line, you should use the class time to interact with the professor.  Learn <b>during</b> class.  When the professor puts something on the board that you don't understand, don't just blindly copy it down; ask the professor to explain it.  A good professor will be happy to have the interaction and will take the time to answer you.  (Granted, this is much more difficult in one of those giant lecture hall settings, but you should avoid those classes anyway.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tell my students that they can do whatever they like provided it does n't distract others .
I also do n't take attendance because my students are adults and they can decide for themselves if they want to attend or not .
Normally , there 's a pretty high correlation between participation and final grade , but having been a student who skipped every ( non-test ) class meeting of Freshman Psych and still got an 'A ' , I 'm not about to penalize students who have a better use for their time.So , why waste your time surfing in my class when you can do it from a much more comfortable location ? Here 's a hint for the rest of you who do attend class and take notes : do n't write down every damn thing !
Especially when a course is based from a textbook , or the notes are on-line , you should use the class time to interact with the professor .
Learn during class .
When the professor puts something on the board that you do n't understand , do n't just blindly copy it down ; ask the professor to explain it .
A good professor will be happy to have the interaction and will take the time to answer you .
( Granted , this is much more difficult in one of those giant lecture hall settings , but you should avoid those classes anyway .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tell my students that they can do whatever they like provided it doesn't distract others.
I also don't take attendance because my students are adults and they can decide for themselves if they want to attend or not.
Normally, there's a pretty high correlation between participation and final grade, but having been a student who skipped every (non-test) class meeting of Freshman Psych and still got an 'A', I'm not about to penalize students who have a better use for their time.So, why waste your time surfing in my class when you can do it from a much more comfortable location?Here's a hint for the rest of you who do attend class and take notes: don't write down every damn thing!
Especially when a course is based from a textbook, or the notes are on-line, you should use the class time to interact with the professor.
Learn during class.
When the professor puts something on the board that you don't understand, don't just blindly copy it down; ask the professor to explain it.
A good professor will be happy to have the interaction and will take the time to answer you.
(Granted, this is much more difficult in one of those giant lecture hall settings, but you should avoid those classes anyway.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425922</id>
	<title>Banning Pens and Notebooks?</title>
	<author>NReitzel</author>
	<datestamp>1268235660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my first lecture for a quantum physics course at UIUC in 1970, the professor - who had a most quaint German accent - walked in and told us that we were not permitted to take notes.  More to the point, he stated, "Der vill be no note taking in dis class.  You vill listen vit your minds and not vit your notebooks."</p><p>So, how many?  At least one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my first lecture for a quantum physics course at UIUC in 1970 , the professor - who had a most quaint German accent - walked in and told us that we were not permitted to take notes .
More to the point , he stated , " Der vill be no note taking in dis class .
You vill listen vit your minds and not vit your notebooks .
" So , how many ?
At least one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my first lecture for a quantum physics course at UIUC in 1970, the professor - who had a most quaint German accent - walked in and told us that we were not permitted to take notes.
More to the point, he stated, "Der vill be no note taking in dis class.
You vill listen vit your minds and not vit your notebooks.
"So, how many?
At least one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425764</id>
	<title>Old vs. New way of thinking</title>
	<author>Spy der Mann</author>
	<datestamp>1268234760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Writing here because stupid webpage doesn't let me comment.</p><p>Banning laptops is the old way of thinking: The student sits, and accepts everything the teacher spits. But we live in the information age. When we go visit a website, we're not just reading the information. Heck, i came from slashdot to comment in here.  Questioning is part of the learning process. Using laptops to gather new information or to store the class info is mandatory. Later the student can organize his notes.</p><p>Heck, why doesn't the teacher give the students some study material and dedicate the class for Q&amp;A? But no, the teacher must feel important and above the students so that they listen to all his babbling. Perhaps we should go back to the ancient Greece and realize  that the old geniuses didn't put their students in a classroom to sit down and jot down everything he said. The teachers asked their student questions and made them think.</p><p>Now about games: Sometimes the class is being too tedious. If the student is bored, is it the student's fault? No, it's the teacher's fault. Why not let the student refresh his mind a little so he can feel better and then improve his learning? When a student starts doodling in the the notebooks, the teacher should take note and try to make his class more amusing. Obviously he's not making the students THINK and UNDERSTAND. Their mind is getting tired, and their brains are screaming "GET ME OUT OF HERE!". So they resort to doodling.</p><p>The traditional education system SUCKS. Feynman said it years ago and showed us clear examples to justify his statements. Stop making the students memorize a bunch of facts and start making them THINK. Then you won't "need" to ban laptops.</p><p>It's so curious how today's education system turns kids into sheep: "Obey. Sit down. Listen. Do not question. You're nobody to question the professors. Get a job. Go up in the corporate ladder. That's the way things should be". And yet, it is people who question the system and do things THEIR way that are often above others and end up becoming millionaires. Like Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Mark Zuckerberg, or Kevin Rose. Did they became rich because they obeyed their professors and did things the way they were supposed to be done? No. They questioned. They innovated. They found new ways to do things.</p><p>I remember the anecdote where Gauss didn't pay attention to one class when in school, and the teacher made him do the sum of 1 + 2 +<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... 100 and couldn't go home before finishing. Well, he thought about it (100 + 1 + 99 + 2 +<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... etc) and came up with the formula: (N*N+1)/2. In 5 minutes he finished the "punishment" and told the teacher that if he wanted to confirm it, it was his (the teacher's) job. So the teacher ended up doing the punishment, while the kid was free to go home and play with his friends.</p><p>The world is always ran by the smarter people, those who know how not to get swayed by others' opinions and learn to move other people in their favor. If the students complain about the laptop situation but do nothing to solve it, they've already given away their freedom to the people "in charge". So, maybe the teachers will scare you into expelling you from school. SO FUCKING WHAT? You don't need school to get rich. Most of the people who became rich didn't do so because of school (starting with the school loans, by the way). You just need to think about a good business model (and even the old corporate dinosaurs like the RIAA fail at this) and put it into action.</p><p>Remember, the teachers are not the bosses, and you're not supposed to be the employee. For instance, the teachers are paid to give YOU a service. If their service is defective, it is THEM, not YOU, who should be replaced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Writing here because stupid webpage does n't let me comment.Banning laptops is the old way of thinking : The student sits , and accepts everything the teacher spits .
But we live in the information age .
When we go visit a website , we 're not just reading the information .
Heck , i came from slashdot to comment in here .
Questioning is part of the learning process .
Using laptops to gather new information or to store the class info is mandatory .
Later the student can organize his notes.Heck , why does n't the teacher give the students some study material and dedicate the class for Q&amp;A ?
But no , the teacher must feel important and above the students so that they listen to all his babbling .
Perhaps we should go back to the ancient Greece and realize that the old geniuses did n't put their students in a classroom to sit down and jot down everything he said .
The teachers asked their student questions and made them think.Now about games : Sometimes the class is being too tedious .
If the student is bored , is it the student 's fault ?
No , it 's the teacher 's fault .
Why not let the student refresh his mind a little so he can feel better and then improve his learning ?
When a student starts doodling in the the notebooks , the teacher should take note and try to make his class more amusing .
Obviously he 's not making the students THINK and UNDERSTAND .
Their mind is getting tired , and their brains are screaming " GET ME OUT OF HERE ! " .
So they resort to doodling.The traditional education system SUCKS .
Feynman said it years ago and showed us clear examples to justify his statements .
Stop making the students memorize a bunch of facts and start making them THINK .
Then you wo n't " need " to ban laptops.It 's so curious how today 's education system turns kids into sheep : " Obey .
Sit down .
Listen. Do not question .
You 're nobody to question the professors .
Get a job .
Go up in the corporate ladder .
That 's the way things should be " .
And yet , it is people who question the system and do things THEIR way that are often above others and end up becoming millionaires .
Like Thomas Edison , Henry Ford , Mark Zuckerberg , or Kevin Rose .
Did they became rich because they obeyed their professors and did things the way they were supposed to be done ?
No. They questioned .
They innovated .
They found new ways to do things.I remember the anecdote where Gauss did n't pay attention to one class when in school , and the teacher made him do the sum of 1 + 2 + .... 100 and could n't go home before finishing .
Well , he thought about it ( 100 + 1 + 99 + 2 + ... etc ) and came up with the formula : ( N * N + 1 ) /2 .
In 5 minutes he finished the " punishment " and told the teacher that if he wanted to confirm it , it was his ( the teacher 's ) job .
So the teacher ended up doing the punishment , while the kid was free to go home and play with his friends.The world is always ran by the smarter people , those who know how not to get swayed by others ' opinions and learn to move other people in their favor .
If the students complain about the laptop situation but do nothing to solve it , they 've already given away their freedom to the people " in charge " .
So , maybe the teachers will scare you into expelling you from school .
SO FUCKING WHAT ?
You do n't need school to get rich .
Most of the people who became rich did n't do so because of school ( starting with the school loans , by the way ) .
You just need to think about a good business model ( and even the old corporate dinosaurs like the RIAA fail at this ) and put it into action.Remember , the teachers are not the bosses , and you 're not supposed to be the employee .
For instance , the teachers are paid to give YOU a service .
If their service is defective , it is THEM , not YOU , who should be replaced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Writing here because stupid webpage doesn't let me comment.Banning laptops is the old way of thinking: The student sits, and accepts everything the teacher spits.
But we live in the information age.
When we go visit a website, we're not just reading the information.
Heck, i came from slashdot to comment in here.
Questioning is part of the learning process.
Using laptops to gather new information or to store the class info is mandatory.
Later the student can organize his notes.Heck, why doesn't the teacher give the students some study material and dedicate the class for Q&amp;A?
But no, the teacher must feel important and above the students so that they listen to all his babbling.
Perhaps we should go back to the ancient Greece and realize  that the old geniuses didn't put their students in a classroom to sit down and jot down everything he said.
The teachers asked their student questions and made them think.Now about games: Sometimes the class is being too tedious.
If the student is bored, is it the student's fault?
No, it's the teacher's fault.
Why not let the student refresh his mind a little so he can feel better and then improve his learning?
When a student starts doodling in the the notebooks, the teacher should take note and try to make his class more amusing.
Obviously he's not making the students THINK and UNDERSTAND.
Their mind is getting tired, and their brains are screaming "GET ME OUT OF HERE!".
So they resort to doodling.The traditional education system SUCKS.
Feynman said it years ago and showed us clear examples to justify his statements.
Stop making the students memorize a bunch of facts and start making them THINK.
Then you won't "need" to ban laptops.It's so curious how today's education system turns kids into sheep: "Obey.
Sit down.
Listen. Do not question.
You're nobody to question the professors.
Get a job.
Go up in the corporate ladder.
That's the way things should be".
And yet, it is people who question the system and do things THEIR way that are often above others and end up becoming millionaires.
Like Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Mark Zuckerberg, or Kevin Rose.
Did they became rich because they obeyed their professors and did things the way they were supposed to be done?
No. They questioned.
They innovated.
They found new ways to do things.I remember the anecdote where Gauss didn't pay attention to one class when in school, and the teacher made him do the sum of 1 + 2 + .... 100 and couldn't go home before finishing.
Well, he thought about it (100 + 1 + 99 + 2 + ... etc) and came up with the formula: (N*N+1)/2.
In 5 minutes he finished the "punishment" and told the teacher that if he wanted to confirm it, it was his (the teacher's) job.
So the teacher ended up doing the punishment, while the kid was free to go home and play with his friends.The world is always ran by the smarter people, those who know how not to get swayed by others' opinions and learn to move other people in their favor.
If the students complain about the laptop situation but do nothing to solve it, they've already given away their freedom to the people "in charge".
So, maybe the teachers will scare you into expelling you from school.
SO FUCKING WHAT?
You don't need school to get rich.
Most of the people who became rich didn't do so because of school (starting with the school loans, by the way).
You just need to think about a good business model (and even the old corporate dinosaurs like the RIAA fail at this) and put it into action.Remember, the teachers are not the bosses, and you're not supposed to be the employee.
For instance, the teachers are paid to give YOU a service.
If their service is defective, it is THEM, not YOU, who should be replaced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431230</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Rick17JJ</author>
	<datestamp>1268216940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am also someone who could never write fast enough to keep up with what the instructor was saying.  Besides that, I also found that the note taking process prevented me from fully paying attention to the lecture.  It felt awkward seeing everyone around me constantly scribbling frantically, while I just sat there doing nothing. But for me, it clearly was a choice between paying attention and taking good notes. Of course, if the instructor in any way hinted that something might be on the test, I always wrote that down.<br><br>If most of what was being said was also in the assigned reading material in the textbook, why should I have to write everything down? Despite taking only very limited notes, I managed get an A in most of my classes at the Junior College.  However, I was never one of those students who do that without studying much.<br><br>At a Junior College in the late 1980s, I once asked permission to record a lecture. The instructor said OK.  However, part way through the lecture, the instructor made several pro-gun comments in a small class consisting partially of gun smithing students.  It then occurred to him, that I had just recorded what he had said and that I was not a gun smithing student, or even a gun enthusiast myself. So he demanded that I immediately erase the entire tape. He expressed concern about the college administrators hearing what he had said.  That was the last time I ever dared to try to record a lecture.<br><br>I did not think he said anything unreasonable, even though I did not agree with everything that he said. At the time, I felt he was entitled to his opinion and that he presented his thoughts well enough to at least make me consider what he had said. Even if I had disagreed more strongly, I still would not have shared the comments from the tape.<br><br>By the way, when I first took some college classes back in the early 1970s we also occasionally used slide rules, because pocket calculators did not exist. Of course cell phone and laptop computers did not exist yet either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am also someone who could never write fast enough to keep up with what the instructor was saying .
Besides that , I also found that the note taking process prevented me from fully paying attention to the lecture .
It felt awkward seeing everyone around me constantly scribbling frantically , while I just sat there doing nothing .
But for me , it clearly was a choice between paying attention and taking good notes .
Of course , if the instructor in any way hinted that something might be on the test , I always wrote that down.If most of what was being said was also in the assigned reading material in the textbook , why should I have to write everything down ?
Despite taking only very limited notes , I managed get an A in most of my classes at the Junior College .
However , I was never one of those students who do that without studying much.At a Junior College in the late 1980s , I once asked permission to record a lecture .
The instructor said OK. However , part way through the lecture , the instructor made several pro-gun comments in a small class consisting partially of gun smithing students .
It then occurred to him , that I had just recorded what he had said and that I was not a gun smithing student , or even a gun enthusiast myself .
So he demanded that I immediately erase the entire tape .
He expressed concern about the college administrators hearing what he had said .
That was the last time I ever dared to try to record a lecture.I did not think he said anything unreasonable , even though I did not agree with everything that he said .
At the time , I felt he was entitled to his opinion and that he presented his thoughts well enough to at least make me consider what he had said .
Even if I had disagreed more strongly , I still would not have shared the comments from the tape.By the way , when I first took some college classes back in the early 1970s we also occasionally used slide rules , because pocket calculators did not exist .
Of course cell phone and laptop computers did not exist yet either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am also someone who could never write fast enough to keep up with what the instructor was saying.
Besides that, I also found that the note taking process prevented me from fully paying attention to the lecture.
It felt awkward seeing everyone around me constantly scribbling frantically, while I just sat there doing nothing.
But for me, it clearly was a choice between paying attention and taking good notes.
Of course, if the instructor in any way hinted that something might be on the test, I always wrote that down.If most of what was being said was also in the assigned reading material in the textbook, why should I have to write everything down?
Despite taking only very limited notes, I managed get an A in most of my classes at the Junior College.
However, I was never one of those students who do that without studying much.At a Junior College in the late 1980s, I once asked permission to record a lecture.
The instructor said OK.  However, part way through the lecture, the instructor made several pro-gun comments in a small class consisting partially of gun smithing students.
It then occurred to him, that I had just recorded what he had said and that I was not a gun smithing student, or even a gun enthusiast myself.
So he demanded that I immediately erase the entire tape.
He expressed concern about the college administrators hearing what he had said.
That was the last time I ever dared to try to record a lecture.I did not think he said anything unreasonable, even though I did not agree with everything that he said.
At the time, I felt he was entitled to his opinion and that he presented his thoughts well enough to at least make me consider what he had said.
Even if I had disagreed more strongly, I still would not have shared the comments from the tape.By the way, when I first took some college classes back in the early 1970s we also occasionally used slide rules, because pocket calculators did not exist.
Of course cell phone and laptop computers did not exist yet either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431310</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1268217300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Humans in general are easily distracted, no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you're working in.</i> </p><p>And it is impossible to be more distracting while presenting information - which is often boring - than a competing medium whose sole purpose is "mindless" distraction.  If it's so easy, please tell us all how to make integration more "interesting" than a YouTube video of a drunken cat.  Twit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Humans in general are easily distracted , no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you 're working in .
And it is impossible to be more distracting while presenting information - which is often boring - than a competing medium whose sole purpose is " mindless " distraction .
If it 's so easy , please tell us all how to make integration more " interesting " than a YouTube video of a drunken cat .
Twit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Humans in general are easily distracted, no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you're working in.
And it is impossible to be more distracting while presenting information - which is often boring - than a competing medium whose sole purpose is "mindless" distraction.
If it's so easy, please tell us all how to make integration more "interesting" than a YouTube video of a drunken cat.
Twit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427674</id>
	<title>Re: And one I make</title>
	<author>ThousandStars</author>
	<datestamp>1268243340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a "GAT" (meaning I teach an independent class) at the University of Arizona and ban laptops in my class for this reason and others, as <a href="http://jseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distraction-hardly-a-surprise/" title="jseliger.com">explained here</a> [jseliger.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a " GAT " ( meaning I teach an independent class ) at the University of Arizona and ban laptops in my class for this reason and others , as explained here [ jseliger.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a "GAT" (meaning I teach an independent class) at the University of Arizona and ban laptops in my class for this reason and others, as explained here [jseliger.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</id>
	<title>Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>illumnatLA</author>
	<datestamp>1268235300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>20-some years ago, I started my bachelor's degree at Ohio University.  I ended up in Los Angeles working in the film &amp; TV business as an editor where they really don't care if you have a degree or not.<br> <br>

Fast forward to now... Economy crash, writers' strike, production slow down... so I decide use that as an opportunity to return to college to finally finish a bachelor's degree in Visual Effects.<br> <br>

The classes are held in computer labs and because the systems are used for many different kinds of classes including web design and as generic open labs, they are connected to the internet.<br> <br>

There is <i>nothing</i> as annoying and distracting as someone sitting there working on their Farmville while the instructor is lecturing or while we are supposedly critiquing each others work.  It leads to the instructor having to go over simple concepts multiple times due to students not paying attention which really pisses me off as it's wasting my time &amp; money... Mommy &amp; daddy aren't paying for my college classes... <i>I am</i>.  We have a limited amount of time as it is... I want to get my money's worth by getting in as many concepts as possible--nott going over the same thing over and over and over because some idiot was tending to his crops.<br> <br>

 Now chances are, these idiots who aren't paying attention in class would've found ways to not pay attention in class back in the pre-WiFi internet days, but for the most part, they would've been less distracting to other students who did want to pay attention. (They'd be doodling in a notebook or just sleeping.)  If they were doing something that was distracting to other students, it would be much easier for an instructor to monitor and deal with... 'Take those headphones off,' 'stop talking back there,' etc.<br> <br>

These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.<br> <br>

The point I'm eventually getting around to making is that these sorts of distractions that having full internet access in the classroom causes is unfair to the students who <i>do</i> want to pay attention.<br> <br>

I really don't give a shit if someone wants to waste their time and (parents') money by not paying attention in the classroom... but I get royally pissed when it wastes my time and my money.<br> <br>

Personally, if I was teaching I would have a policy in place where first time caught on the internet during a lecture or critique would get a warning, second time... auto fail.<br> <br>

But... I digress...</htmltext>
<tokenext>20-some years ago , I started my bachelor 's degree at Ohio University .
I ended up in Los Angeles working in the film &amp; TV business as an editor where they really do n't care if you have a degree or not .
Fast forward to now... Economy crash , writers ' strike , production slow down... so I decide use that as an opportunity to return to college to finally finish a bachelor 's degree in Visual Effects .
The classes are held in computer labs and because the systems are used for many different kinds of classes including web design and as generic open labs , they are connected to the internet .
There is nothing as annoying and distracting as someone sitting there working on their Farmville while the instructor is lecturing or while we are supposedly critiquing each others work .
It leads to the instructor having to go over simple concepts multiple times due to students not paying attention which really pisses me off as it 's wasting my time &amp; money... Mommy &amp; daddy are n't paying for my college classes... I am .
We have a limited amount of time as it is... I want to get my money 's worth by getting in as many concepts as possible--nott going over the same thing over and over and over because some idiot was tending to his crops .
Now chances are , these idiots who are n't paying attention in class would 've found ways to not pay attention in class back in the pre-WiFi internet days , but for the most part , they would 've been less distracting to other students who did want to pay attention .
( They 'd be doodling in a notebook or just sleeping .
) If they were doing something that was distracting to other students , it would be much easier for an instructor to monitor and deal with... 'Take those headphones off, ' 'stop talking back there, ' etc .
These days , the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot .
The point I 'm eventually getting around to making is that these sorts of distractions that having full internet access in the classroom causes is unfair to the students who do want to pay attention .
I really do n't give a shit if someone wants to waste their time and ( parents ' ) money by not paying attention in the classroom... but I get royally pissed when it wastes my time and my money .
Personally , if I was teaching I would have a policy in place where first time caught on the internet during a lecture or critique would get a warning , second time... auto fail .
But... I digress.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>20-some years ago, I started my bachelor's degree at Ohio University.
I ended up in Los Angeles working in the film &amp; TV business as an editor where they really don't care if you have a degree or not.
Fast forward to now... Economy crash, writers' strike, production slow down... so I decide use that as an opportunity to return to college to finally finish a bachelor's degree in Visual Effects.
The classes are held in computer labs and because the systems are used for many different kinds of classes including web design and as generic open labs, they are connected to the internet.
There is nothing as annoying and distracting as someone sitting there working on their Farmville while the instructor is lecturing or while we are supposedly critiquing each others work.
It leads to the instructor having to go over simple concepts multiple times due to students not paying attention which really pisses me off as it's wasting my time &amp; money... Mommy &amp; daddy aren't paying for my college classes... I am.
We have a limited amount of time as it is... I want to get my money's worth by getting in as many concepts as possible--nott going over the same thing over and over and over because some idiot was tending to his crops.
Now chances are, these idiots who aren't paying attention in class would've found ways to not pay attention in class back in the pre-WiFi internet days, but for the most part, they would've been less distracting to other students who did want to pay attention.
(They'd be doodling in a notebook or just sleeping.
)  If they were doing something that was distracting to other students, it would be much easier for an instructor to monitor and deal with... 'Take those headphones off,' 'stop talking back there,' etc.
These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.
The point I'm eventually getting around to making is that these sorts of distractions that having full internet access in the classroom causes is unfair to the students who do want to pay attention.
I really don't give a shit if someone wants to waste their time and (parents') money by not paying attention in the classroom... but I get royally pissed when it wastes my time and my money.
Personally, if I was teaching I would have a policy in place where first time caught on the internet during a lecture or critique would get a warning, second time... auto fail.
But... I digress...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427698</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>supercrisp</author>
	<datestamp>1268243400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was discussing the problems of being tired, distracted etc. with some students this semester when one of them volunteered that she'd done the math, and each class session cost her about $70. That made some eyes wide. I didn't, however, notice much of an impact on class sessions after that day.....</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was discussing the problems of being tired , distracted etc .
with some students this semester when one of them volunteered that she 'd done the math , and each class session cost her about $ 70 .
That made some eyes wide .
I did n't , however , notice much of an impact on class sessions after that day.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was discussing the problems of being tired, distracted etc.
with some students this semester when one of them volunteered that she'd done the math, and each class session cost her about $70.
That made some eyes wide.
I didn't, however, notice much of an impact on class sessions after that day.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429994</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Rich0</author>
	<datestamp>1268254200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would be fine, if the professor wasn't required to pass most of the class, which means they either need to water down the material for the benefit of those who can't be bothered to pay attention, or keep going over it, wasting MY time.</p><p>I'm fine with just leaving each to his own - as long as laptop displays do not contain animations/movement of any kind beyond scrolling, mouse cursors, etc, and as long as the quality of my own education isn't brought down to everybody else's level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would be fine , if the professor was n't required to pass most of the class , which means they either need to water down the material for the benefit of those who ca n't be bothered to pay attention , or keep going over it , wasting MY time.I 'm fine with just leaving each to his own - as long as laptop displays do not contain animations/movement of any kind beyond scrolling , mouse cursors , etc , and as long as the quality of my own education is n't brought down to everybody else 's level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would be fine, if the professor wasn't required to pass most of the class, which means they either need to water down the material for the benefit of those who can't be bothered to pay attention, or keep going over it, wasting MY time.I'm fine with just leaving each to his own - as long as laptop displays do not contain animations/movement of any kind beyond scrolling, mouse cursors, etc, and as long as the quality of my own education isn't brought down to everybody else's level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427008</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425798</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268234940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dear Prof, your class and you suck. The only reason I'm here is because it's a requirement for the university.</p><p>If you really wanted us to learn the concepts, you'd hand out the notes and then engage us with theory.</p><p>If it's mostly memorization, then I can replace your entire class with a reference book or a calculator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dear Prof , your class and you suck .
The only reason I 'm here is because it 's a requirement for the university.If you really wanted us to learn the concepts , you 'd hand out the notes and then engage us with theory.If it 's mostly memorization , then I can replace your entire class with a reference book or a calculator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dear Prof, your class and you suck.
The only reason I'm here is because it's a requirement for the university.If you really wanted us to learn the concepts, you'd hand out the notes and then engage us with theory.If it's mostly memorization, then I can replace your entire class with a reference book or a calculator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429232</id>
	<title>Ban teaching by powerpoint before you ban laptops</title>
	<author>jdbuz</author>
	<datestamp>1268250660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been out of academia since '95 but back then professors wrote on the board (with the occasional overhead graph) and students wrote on paper. My girlfriend recently went back to school and almost every class is taught by powerpoint presentation which nearly begs the students to bring in their laptops. If you want to ban the laptop then ban the lazy practice of teaching by powerpoint.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been out of academia since '95 but back then professors wrote on the board ( with the occasional overhead graph ) and students wrote on paper .
My girlfriend recently went back to school and almost every class is taught by powerpoint presentation which nearly begs the students to bring in their laptops .
If you want to ban the laptop then ban the lazy practice of teaching by powerpoint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been out of academia since '95 but back then professors wrote on the board (with the occasional overhead graph) and students wrote on paper.
My girlfriend recently went back to school and almost every class is taught by powerpoint presentation which nearly begs the students to bring in their laptops.
If you want to ban the laptop then ban the lazy practice of teaching by powerpoint.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428600</id>
	<title>surfing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268247840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surfing the web in class not only destroys any chance of you learning anything in class, it distracts everyone around you.</p><p>3.8/4.0  never brought my macbook to class</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surfing the web in class not only destroys any chance of you learning anything in class , it distracts everyone around you.3.8/4.0 never brought my macbook to class</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surfing the web in class not only destroys any chance of you learning anything in class, it distracts everyone around you.3.8/4.0  never brought my macbook to class</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426050</id>
	<title>Another prof's take on this</title>
	<author>bradley13</author>
	<datestamp>1268236200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm also a prof, and here's my take on it... I give lectures in a couple of different majors. The CS students all bring their laptops, the business students never do, and there are some some classes in between.

</p><p>First off, I do not require attendance. In fact, I usually explicitly say: "if you want to read your email, play games, etc, please do not come to class". If you're in my class, I want you there because you intend to pay attention to the lecture.

</p><p>Alarindris (in an earlier post) made a really good point: to make a lecture interesting, you need to be able to interact with the class. If everyone is heads down in their laptops, and asking them a question causes them to look up with an expression of "huh? what's going on?" - well, there is just no way to make the lecture work. Over the years, I have had a couple of groups like this - it is really, really awful.

</p><p>Regarding note-taking: I have never seen a student take notes on a computer. Mostly they load up the slides I've provided (which contain some, but not nearly all of the content). What goes up on the board is developed interactively with the class, and inevitably involves pictures and diagrams - there is just no reasonable way to take notes like that on the computer.

</p><p>A few students complain that I don't provide complete material to download - thus making note taking unnecessary. These are the same students who expect to be handed an "A" on the final, without actually having to study or do anything difficult. The point of a lecture is for the professor to ensure that the students understand a topic. The material presented changes based on feedback from the class. "Is that clear, or do we need another example here?" If another example, or an alternative explanation is needed, you make one up on the spot. You go faster or slower, show more or less detail, use fewer or more examples based on the students' comprehension of what you are talking about.

</p><p>If you find yourself talking to the tops of everyone's heads, you have no source of feedback. Did they understand? Are they even listening? One poster on this thread said that it's the prof's own fault if the students aren't interested. The other side is: if the students don't give any feedback, the lecture is guaranteed to be boring - because there is no way to tailor the presentation to the audience.

</p><p>If you have a really horrible prof (yes, I know some of those), don't take the class. If you have to take the class, save yourself the boredom and don't go to lectures. If attendance is required, life's a bitch, deal with it. Consider it practice for those really exciting business meetings you'll be attending throughout your professional life: if you don't pay attention when the boss is talking, you'll be walking.

</p><p>All of which is a long way of saying: laptops in lectures are really pretty useless for the students. I wouldn't bother to ban them - too much fuss - but I can and do ban any sort of distracting activities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm also a prof , and here 's my take on it... I give lectures in a couple of different majors .
The CS students all bring their laptops , the business students never do , and there are some some classes in between .
First off , I do not require attendance .
In fact , I usually explicitly say : " if you want to read your email , play games , etc , please do not come to class " .
If you 're in my class , I want you there because you intend to pay attention to the lecture .
Alarindris ( in an earlier post ) made a really good point : to make a lecture interesting , you need to be able to interact with the class .
If everyone is heads down in their laptops , and asking them a question causes them to look up with an expression of " huh ?
what 's going on ?
" - well , there is just no way to make the lecture work .
Over the years , I have had a couple of groups like this - it is really , really awful .
Regarding note-taking : I have never seen a student take notes on a computer .
Mostly they load up the slides I 've provided ( which contain some , but not nearly all of the content ) .
What goes up on the board is developed interactively with the class , and inevitably involves pictures and diagrams - there is just no reasonable way to take notes like that on the computer .
A few students complain that I do n't provide complete material to download - thus making note taking unnecessary .
These are the same students who expect to be handed an " A " on the final , without actually having to study or do anything difficult .
The point of a lecture is for the professor to ensure that the students understand a topic .
The material presented changes based on feedback from the class .
" Is that clear , or do we need another example here ?
" If another example , or an alternative explanation is needed , you make one up on the spot .
You go faster or slower , show more or less detail , use fewer or more examples based on the students ' comprehension of what you are talking about .
If you find yourself talking to the tops of everyone 's heads , you have no source of feedback .
Did they understand ?
Are they even listening ?
One poster on this thread said that it 's the prof 's own fault if the students are n't interested .
The other side is : if the students do n't give any feedback , the lecture is guaranteed to be boring - because there is no way to tailor the presentation to the audience .
If you have a really horrible prof ( yes , I know some of those ) , do n't take the class .
If you have to take the class , save yourself the boredom and do n't go to lectures .
If attendance is required , life 's a bitch , deal with it .
Consider it practice for those really exciting business meetings you 'll be attending throughout your professional life : if you do n't pay attention when the boss is talking , you 'll be walking .
All of which is a long way of saying : laptops in lectures are really pretty useless for the students .
I would n't bother to ban them - too much fuss - but I can and do ban any sort of distracting activities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm also a prof, and here's my take on it... I give lectures in a couple of different majors.
The CS students all bring their laptops, the business students never do, and there are some some classes in between.
First off, I do not require attendance.
In fact, I usually explicitly say: "if you want to read your email, play games, etc, please do not come to class".
If you're in my class, I want you there because you intend to pay attention to the lecture.
Alarindris (in an earlier post) made a really good point: to make a lecture interesting, you need to be able to interact with the class.
If everyone is heads down in their laptops, and asking them a question causes them to look up with an expression of "huh?
what's going on?
" - well, there is just no way to make the lecture work.
Over the years, I have had a couple of groups like this - it is really, really awful.
Regarding note-taking: I have never seen a student take notes on a computer.
Mostly they load up the slides I've provided (which contain some, but not nearly all of the content).
What goes up on the board is developed interactively with the class, and inevitably involves pictures and diagrams - there is just no reasonable way to take notes like that on the computer.
A few students complain that I don't provide complete material to download - thus making note taking unnecessary.
These are the same students who expect to be handed an "A" on the final, without actually having to study or do anything difficult.
The point of a lecture is for the professor to ensure that the students understand a topic.
The material presented changes based on feedback from the class.
"Is that clear, or do we need another example here?
" If another example, or an alternative explanation is needed, you make one up on the spot.
You go faster or slower, show more or less detail, use fewer or more examples based on the students' comprehension of what you are talking about.
If you find yourself talking to the tops of everyone's heads, you have no source of feedback.
Did they understand?
Are they even listening?
One poster on this thread said that it's the prof's own fault if the students aren't interested.
The other side is: if the students don't give any feedback, the lecture is guaranteed to be boring - because there is no way to tailor the presentation to the audience.
If you have a really horrible prof (yes, I know some of those), don't take the class.
If you have to take the class, save yourself the boredom and don't go to lectures.
If attendance is required, life's a bitch, deal with it.
Consider it practice for those really exciting business meetings you'll be attending throughout your professional life: if you don't pay attention when the boss is talking, you'll be walking.
All of which is a long way of saying: laptops in lectures are really pretty useless for the students.
I wouldn't bother to ban them - too much fuss - but I can and do ban any sort of distracting activities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425464</id>
	<title>Needless to say...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The college works for ME as I'm paying (even if it's via loan) and the professor isn't. If a professor/teacher told me I could not use a computer to take notes I'd tell him/her to kiss my ass and prepare to explain himself to every superior above him that I yell at. Stress is a bitch and I may not be able to directly create "change" but I sure can make him/her pay for that decision with uncomfortable moments.</p><p>Then again, I'm 40 so maybe I'm not the type of student that is the problem?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The college works for ME as I 'm paying ( even if it 's via loan ) and the professor is n't .
If a professor/teacher told me I could not use a computer to take notes I 'd tell him/her to kiss my ass and prepare to explain himself to every superior above him that I yell at .
Stress is a bitch and I may not be able to directly create " change " but I sure can make him/her pay for that decision with uncomfortable moments.Then again , I 'm 40 so maybe I 'm not the type of student that is the problem ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The college works for ME as I'm paying (even if it's via loan) and the professor isn't.
If a professor/teacher told me I could not use a computer to take notes I'd tell him/her to kiss my ass and prepare to explain himself to every superior above him that I yell at.
Stress is a bitch and I may not be able to directly create "change" but I sure can make him/her pay for that decision with uncomfortable moments.Then again, I'm 40 so maybe I'm not the type of student that is the problem?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428422</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>illumnatLA</author>
	<datestamp>1268247060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nope... University professors aren't babysitters, nor should they have to be.  <br> <br>

The problem is when flashing graphics from internet surfing and so forth distract other students from being able to pay full attention.  The human eye is naturally drawn to motion and the flashing graphics on computer screens will cause others to be distracted by it... especially if it's accompanied by the *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* of someone harvesting their damn crops.
<br> <br>
This <i>is not</i> about how laptops effect university professors.  It <b> <i>is</i> </b> about how inappropriate usage laptops and internet in the classroom effects fellow students.<br> <br>

If another student is causing distraction in the classroom be it talking during a lecture or playing games or surfing the internet during the lecture, they are taking away from my classroom experience.  <i>I am paying for my own classroom experience</i> not Mommy &amp; Daddy.  You take away what I am paying for with your inability to pay attention to something for a couple of hours and you are stealing from me. <br> <br>

<i>I am in college to learn</i>.  It is not an extension of high school.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nope... University professors are n't babysitters , nor should they have to be .
The problem is when flashing graphics from internet surfing and so forth distract other students from being able to pay full attention .
The human eye is naturally drawn to motion and the flashing graphics on computer screens will cause others to be distracted by it... especially if it 's accompanied by the * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * * click * of someone harvesting their damn crops .
This is not about how laptops effect university professors .
It is about how inappropriate usage laptops and internet in the classroom effects fellow students .
If another student is causing distraction in the classroom be it talking during a lecture or playing games or surfing the internet during the lecture , they are taking away from my classroom experience .
I am paying for my own classroom experience not Mommy &amp; Daddy .
You take away what I am paying for with your inability to pay attention to something for a couple of hours and you are stealing from me .
I am in college to learn .
It is not an extension of high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nope... University professors aren't babysitters, nor should they have to be.
The problem is when flashing graphics from internet surfing and so forth distract other students from being able to pay full attention.
The human eye is naturally drawn to motion and the flashing graphics on computer screens will cause others to be distracted by it... especially if it's accompanied by the *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* of someone harvesting their damn crops.
This is not about how laptops effect university professors.
It  is  about how inappropriate usage laptops and internet in the classroom effects fellow students.
If another student is causing distraction in the classroom be it talking during a lecture or playing games or surfing the internet during the lecture, they are taking away from my classroom experience.
I am paying for my own classroom experience not Mommy &amp; Daddy.
You take away what I am paying for with your inability to pay attention to something for a couple of hours and you are stealing from me.
I am in college to learn.
It is not an extension of high school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427008</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427952</id>
	<title>Sounds like the problem isn't laptops...</title>
	<author>soulhakr</author>
	<datestamp>1268244540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like the problem isn't laptops, the problem is wireless network access - that's the only thing which distinguishes a laptop from a notepad as a note-taking device.<br>Why not just jam wireless network (including 3g and cellphone) cellphone signals during lecture periods as they do in some restaurants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like the problem is n't laptops , the problem is wireless network access - that 's the only thing which distinguishes a laptop from a notepad as a note-taking device.Why not just jam wireless network ( including 3g and cellphone ) cellphone signals during lecture periods as they do in some restaurants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like the problem isn't laptops, the problem is wireless network access - that's the only thing which distinguishes a laptop from a notepad as a note-taking device.Why not just jam wireless network (including 3g and cellphone) cellphone signals during lecture periods as they do in some restaurants.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427048</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a laptop as entertainment user I whole-heartedly agree. Which is why if I choose to use my laptop I take back row seats so as not to distract people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a laptop as entertainment user I whole-heartedly agree .
Which is why if I choose to use my laptop I take back row seats so as not to distract people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a laptop as entertainment user I whole-heartedly agree.
Which is why if I choose to use my laptop I take back row seats so as not to distract people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426602</id>
	<title>Turnabout</title>
	<author>DaveAtFraud</author>
	<datestamp>1268238540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with getting rid of laptops for taking notes as long as the prof isn't just reading his or her Power Point slides.  This is especially true if the Power Point presentation is just the canned set of slides provided by the author of the textbook.  I'm looking for the prof to provide "added value" by emphasizing what's really important and providing connectivity beyond what's in the book.</p><p>If all I'm getting in a class is a rehash of the textbook, I don't need the prof or the class and can save my tuition by just reading the book.</p><p>Cheers,<br>Dave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with getting rid of laptops for taking notes as long as the prof is n't just reading his or her Power Point slides .
This is especially true if the Power Point presentation is just the canned set of slides provided by the author of the textbook .
I 'm looking for the prof to provide " added value " by emphasizing what 's really important and providing connectivity beyond what 's in the book.If all I 'm getting in a class is a rehash of the textbook , I do n't need the prof or the class and can save my tuition by just reading the book.Cheers,Dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with getting rid of laptops for taking notes as long as the prof isn't just reading his or her Power Point slides.
This is especially true if the Power Point presentation is just the canned set of slides provided by the author of the textbook.
I'm looking for the prof to provide "added value" by emphasizing what's really important and providing connectivity beyond what's in the book.If all I'm getting in a class is a rehash of the textbook, I don't need the prof or the class and can save my tuition by just reading the book.Cheers,Dave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425488</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268233200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom!</i></p><p>That's what grades are for. The guys playing FPSs today would have been reading LOTR or Playboy in class back in my day. The only one that's being hurt is the student who isn't paying attention, whether it's an FPS or titties. It's no skin off my nose if the guy next to me flunks the class, in fact that's one less competetitor for a job after graduation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom ! That 's what grades are for .
The guys playing FPSs today would have been reading LOTR or Playboy in class back in my day .
The only one that 's being hurt is the student who is n't paying attention , whether it 's an FPS or titties .
It 's no skin off my nose if the guy next to me flunks the class , in fact that 's one less competetitor for a job after graduation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But technology that hinders the education.. should be kept outside classroom!That's what grades are for.
The guys playing FPSs today would have been reading LOTR or Playboy in class back in my day.
The only one that's being hurt is the student who isn't paying attention, whether it's an FPS or titties.
It's no skin off my nose if the guy next to me flunks the class, in fact that's one less competetitor for a job after graduation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31434716</id>
	<title>Get them out of the classroom.</title>
	<author>X.mpls</author>
	<datestamp>1268245140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>90\% of the people I see with laptops aren't using them in any academic capacity.  Some people get caught in this mentality that they're somehow learning even though they're on Facebook or slashdot while in lecture -- I do laugh when I see people googling or "wikipedia-ing" an event or concept that has been referenced by the professor.  However, these people are distracting to other people (in what clearly is already an unexciting class) by bright flashes and the incessant pitter-patter of acrylic.

The response, "it's nobody's choice but the students" is problematic because they are frequently disturbing other people.  If it weren't for rules about using cell phones in libraries, I wouldn't be able to study in the quiet anywhere.  The line has to be drawn once people push a privilege too far.  Students have gone too far.

I used to bring my laptop to class freshmen year until I caught myself frequenting websites instead of paying attention.  I am not opposed to disabled students using laptops.  I am opposed to the masses who use their laptops to occupy themselves while they trick themselves into thinking they're upholding their duty as students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>90 \ % of the people I see with laptops are n't using them in any academic capacity .
Some people get caught in this mentality that they 're somehow learning even though they 're on Facebook or slashdot while in lecture -- I do laugh when I see people googling or " wikipedia-ing " an event or concept that has been referenced by the professor .
However , these people are distracting to other people ( in what clearly is already an unexciting class ) by bright flashes and the incessant pitter-patter of acrylic .
The response , " it 's nobody 's choice but the students " is problematic because they are frequently disturbing other people .
If it were n't for rules about using cell phones in libraries , I would n't be able to study in the quiet anywhere .
The line has to be drawn once people push a privilege too far .
Students have gone too far .
I used to bring my laptop to class freshmen year until I caught myself frequenting websites instead of paying attention .
I am not opposed to disabled students using laptops .
I am opposed to the masses who use their laptops to occupy themselves while they trick themselves into thinking they 're upholding their duty as students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>90\% of the people I see with laptops aren't using them in any academic capacity.
Some people get caught in this mentality that they're somehow learning even though they're on Facebook or slashdot while in lecture -- I do laugh when I see people googling or "wikipedia-ing" an event or concept that has been referenced by the professor.
However, these people are distracting to other people (in what clearly is already an unexciting class) by bright flashes and the incessant pitter-patter of acrylic.
The response, "it's nobody's choice but the students" is problematic because they are frequently disturbing other people.
If it weren't for rules about using cell phones in libraries, I wouldn't be able to study in the quiet anywhere.
The line has to be drawn once people push a privilege too far.
Students have gone too far.
I used to bring my laptop to class freshmen year until I caught myself frequenting websites instead of paying attention.
I am not opposed to disabled students using laptops.
I am opposed to the masses who use their laptops to occupy themselves while they trick themselves into thinking they're upholding their duty as students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425952</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>penguin\_dance</author>
	<datestamp>1268235780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they're going to demand that I take pen and paper notes, then I demand the professor actually TEACH the class instead of subbing it to a graduate student while s/he works on his/her pet project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they 're going to demand that I take pen and paper notes , then I demand the professor actually TEACH the class instead of subbing it to a graduate student while s/he works on his/her pet project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they're going to demand that I take pen and paper notes, then I demand the professor actually TEACH the class instead of subbing it to a graduate student while s/he works on his/her pet project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429118</id>
	<title>Re:Note taking isn't stenography</title>
	<author>skroops</author>
	<datestamp>1268250240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always thought that degree programs should start with or at least offer a note-taking seminar or something.  I've never been able to take good notes and would love to be taught how to.  I just don't take them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always thought that degree programs should start with or at least offer a note-taking seminar or something .
I 've never been able to take good notes and would love to be taught how to .
I just do n't take them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always thought that degree programs should start with or at least offer a note-taking seminar or something.
I've never been able to take good notes and would love to be taught how to.
I just don't take them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</id>
	<title>Laptop notes</title>
	<author>LikwidCirkel</author>
	<datestamp>1268231460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Laptop/tablet note taking has drastically reduced my paper load and improved the quality of my notes.  If I were in any of these schools, I would take this issue as far as I possibly could.. I actually have in the past with individual professors, and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policy.

That said, I have a big problem with students playing games in class where I can see their screen.  I've told people in the past, that if they're going to play games, at least sit in the friggin back row so no one else can see.

Disruption is, and has always been a problem, but banning laptops is not the answer.  I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Laptop/tablet note taking has drastically reduced my paper load and improved the quality of my notes .
If I were in any of these schools , I would take this issue as far as I possibly could.. I actually have in the past with individual professors , and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policy .
That said , I have a big problem with students playing games in class where I can see their screen .
I 've told people in the past , that if they 're going to play games , at least sit in the friggin back row so no one else can see .
Disruption is , and has always been a problem , but banning laptops is not the answer .
I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Laptop/tablet note taking has drastically reduced my paper load and improved the quality of my notes.
If I were in any of these schools, I would take this issue as far as I possibly could.. I actually have in the past with individual professors, and I always came out the victor because there is simply no sane justification for such a policy.
That said, I have a big problem with students playing games in class where I can see their screen.
I've told people in the past, that if they're going to play games, at least sit in the friggin back row so no one else can see.
Disruption is, and has always been a problem, but banning laptops is not the answer.
I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.. that helps just a bit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31432338</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>VoiceInTheDesert</author>
	<datestamp>1268222340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the prof isn't getting the attention of the students, he isn't making them do so. Make the class harder/more interesting and people will pay attention or fail.
<br>
<br>
Banning the laptops is a powertrip and nothing more. The profs have all the control in the world over how easy the class is to pass.
<br>
<br>
Personally, I've gone to classes of 400 students that ban laptops and take attendance but are boring and easy to pass. So I'm forced to sit in a room and listen for 90 min while the prof drones on and I can't use my laptop to do something more productive and I can't skip class because I'll get marked off points for doing so.
<br>
<br>
Make the class interesting and challenging and the kids will pay attention, simple as that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the prof is n't getting the attention of the students , he is n't making them do so .
Make the class harder/more interesting and people will pay attention or fail .
Banning the laptops is a powertrip and nothing more .
The profs have all the control in the world over how easy the class is to pass .
Personally , I 've gone to classes of 400 students that ban laptops and take attendance but are boring and easy to pass .
So I 'm forced to sit in a room and listen for 90 min while the prof drones on and I ca n't use my laptop to do something more productive and I ca n't skip class because I 'll get marked off points for doing so .
Make the class interesting and challenging and the kids will pay attention , simple as that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the prof isn't getting the attention of the students, he isn't making them do so.
Make the class harder/more interesting and people will pay attention or fail.
Banning the laptops is a powertrip and nothing more.
The profs have all the control in the world over how easy the class is to pass.
Personally, I've gone to classes of 400 students that ban laptops and take attendance but are boring and easy to pass.
So I'm forced to sit in a room and listen for 90 min while the prof drones on and I can't use my laptop to do something more productive and I can't skip class because I'll get marked off points for doing so.
Make the class interesting and challenging and the kids will pay attention, simple as that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31434956</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>net28573</author>
	<datestamp>1268248320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>it's pointless to ban laptops because a more annoying distraction will come from the alternative method of taking notes that people will have to readjust themselves to.
         Instead of people being able to put headphones on to allow other students to listen while they play, peoples phones will be binging more than ever after this due to common features a lot of phones have today which in most ways replicate what a laptop can do except for the useful keyboard which allows you to take notes efficiently.

i would rather not have my phone use banned due to some idios forgetting to set their phones on vibrate/silent/off.

a laptop is a necessary evill. at least it has a keyboard. most peoples keyboard typing is way faster than their writing, and less tiring.

this is comparible to the problem highschools have with internet filtering and the new proxys that replace the ones the tech guys blocked. its a never ending cycle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's pointless to ban laptops because a more annoying distraction will come from the alternative method of taking notes that people will have to readjust themselves to .
Instead of people being able to put headphones on to allow other students to listen while they play , peoples phones will be binging more than ever after this due to common features a lot of phones have today which in most ways replicate what a laptop can do except for the useful keyboard which allows you to take notes efficiently .
i would rather not have my phone use banned due to some idios forgetting to set their phones on vibrate/silent/off .
a laptop is a necessary evill .
at least it has a keyboard .
most peoples keyboard typing is way faster than their writing , and less tiring .
this is comparible to the problem highschools have with internet filtering and the new proxys that replace the ones the tech guys blocked .
its a never ending cycle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's pointless to ban laptops because a more annoying distraction will come from the alternative method of taking notes that people will have to readjust themselves to.
Instead of people being able to put headphones on to allow other students to listen while they play, peoples phones will be binging more than ever after this due to common features a lot of phones have today which in most ways replicate what a laptop can do except for the useful keyboard which allows you to take notes efficiently.
i would rather not have my phone use banned due to some idios forgetting to set their phones on vibrate/silent/off.
a laptop is a necessary evill.
at least it has a keyboard.
most peoples keyboard typing is way faster than their writing, and less tiring.
this is comparible to the problem highschools have with internet filtering and the new proxys that replace the ones the tech guys blocked.
its a never ending cycle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426942</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Frequency Domain</author>
	<datestamp>1268240100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a professor wanted students to interact, they would be handing out notes, instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them.</p></div><p>Quite the opposite, in fact.  I hand out algorithms and code snippets, but I don't use powerpoint or hand out my notes.  I want my students to think about what's being presented in front of them, and have the tactile lock-in of taking notes.  I also try to get the class involved by pausing in the middle and asking where they would go from there, to get them to engage their brains in the process rather than being passive receptacles.  I've had numerous students who started the class by complaining about the lack of powerpoint slides come back later and tell me they retained far more of the material than from their other powerpoint-based courses.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a professor wanted students to interact , they would be handing out notes , instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them.Quite the opposite , in fact .
I hand out algorithms and code snippets , but I do n't use powerpoint or hand out my notes .
I want my students to think about what 's being presented in front of them , and have the tactile lock-in of taking notes .
I also try to get the class involved by pausing in the middle and asking where they would go from there , to get them to engage their brains in the process rather than being passive receptacles .
I 've had numerous students who started the class by complaining about the lack of powerpoint slides come back later and tell me they retained far more of the material than from their other powerpoint-based courses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a professor wanted students to interact, they would be handing out notes, instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them.Quite the opposite, in fact.
I hand out algorithms and code snippets, but I don't use powerpoint or hand out my notes.
I want my students to think about what's being presented in front of them, and have the tactile lock-in of taking notes.
I also try to get the class involved by pausing in the middle and asking where they would go from there, to get them to engage their brains in the process rather than being passive receptacles.
I've had numerous students who started the class by complaining about the lack of powerpoint slides come back later and tell me they retained far more of the material than from their other powerpoint-based courses.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427370</id>
	<title>No problem</title>
	<author>eosp</author>
	<datestamp>1268241900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No problem for me. Even though I am a computer science student, I take notes on paper. Then I transcribe it into my personal wiki, getting twice the exposure to the material.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No problem for me .
Even though I am a computer science student , I take notes on paper .
Then I transcribe it into my personal wiki , getting twice the exposure to the material .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No problem for me.
Even though I am a computer science student, I take notes on paper.
Then I transcribe it into my personal wiki, getting twice the exposure to the material.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429276</id>
	<title>Luddites are alive and well.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268250960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No wonder the US is doing so badly when it comes to qualified university graduates.</p><p>I say let them use computers, play games and even fail if they so wish. One thing I would agree on is that it does tend to distract other students and hampers interactivity.</p><p>I took notes at university not because I EVER looked at it again, but more that I would interact better with the material at the time. It made me think and understand it better.</p><p>What about note-taking on a handwriting-recognition type tablet computer?</p><p>I would not have minded to have a lighter backpack at university...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No wonder the US is doing so badly when it comes to qualified university graduates.I say let them use computers , play games and even fail if they so wish .
One thing I would agree on is that it does tend to distract other students and hampers interactivity.I took notes at university not because I EVER looked at it again , but more that I would interact better with the material at the time .
It made me think and understand it better.What about note-taking on a handwriting-recognition type tablet computer ? I would not have minded to have a lighter backpack at university.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No wonder the US is doing so badly when it comes to qualified university graduates.I say let them use computers, play games and even fail if they so wish.
One thing I would agree on is that it does tend to distract other students and hampers interactivity.I took notes at university not because I EVER looked at it again, but more that I would interact better with the material at the time.
It made me think and understand it better.What about note-taking on a handwriting-recognition type tablet computer?I would not have minded to have a lighter backpack at university...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426400</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268237760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about you stop looking at other people's screens and start paying attention to your own damn self. Listen to the lecture, be the first to respond that you know what's going on (so the teacher will move on), and mind your own business.</p><p>I am a sort of person that can't learn unless I'm fidgeting with something. The best way for me to do that and learn concepts is to do something mind-numbing during the lecture like play Collapse on my cell phone. I play the game to occupy certain parts of my brain while the rest of it is open to listen to the lecture. It looks like I'm not paying attention at all, but in reality I'm learning quite well. I'll often have to pause my game to ask or answer a question. It works for me.</p><p>It is NEVER appropriate to ban things just because they are not working for you. For others, they may be very important to the learning process. Of course some people are just fucking around, but that's where minding your own business comes into play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about you stop looking at other people 's screens and start paying attention to your own damn self .
Listen to the lecture , be the first to respond that you know what 's going on ( so the teacher will move on ) , and mind your own business.I am a sort of person that ca n't learn unless I 'm fidgeting with something .
The best way for me to do that and learn concepts is to do something mind-numbing during the lecture like play Collapse on my cell phone .
I play the game to occupy certain parts of my brain while the rest of it is open to listen to the lecture .
It looks like I 'm not paying attention at all , but in reality I 'm learning quite well .
I 'll often have to pause my game to ask or answer a question .
It works for me.It is NEVER appropriate to ban things just because they are not working for you .
For others , they may be very important to the learning process .
Of course some people are just fucking around , but that 's where minding your own business comes into play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about you stop looking at other people's screens and start paying attention to your own damn self.
Listen to the lecture, be the first to respond that you know what's going on (so the teacher will move on), and mind your own business.I am a sort of person that can't learn unless I'm fidgeting with something.
The best way for me to do that and learn concepts is to do something mind-numbing during the lecture like play Collapse on my cell phone.
I play the game to occupy certain parts of my brain while the rest of it is open to listen to the lecture.
It looks like I'm not paying attention at all, but in reality I'm learning quite well.
I'll often have to pause my game to ask or answer a question.
It works for me.It is NEVER appropriate to ban things just because they are not working for you.
For others, they may be very important to the learning process.
Of course some people are just fucking around, but that's where minding your own business comes into play.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425562</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>MichaelDelving</author>
	<datestamp>1268233440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ha.  Had the most monotone professor, world renowned in his particularly dry and boring field, but he put the Ben Stein teacher drone to shame.</p><p>There were apocryphal-seeming stories of students falling asleep in upper-level grad classes of his.  Only seeming, because they sound unlikely, unless you ever took one of his classes.</p><p>Case 1: 3 or 4 students, one fell asleep, and at end of lecture prof shushed students, and turned out lights and crept out, leaving him asleep.  Case 2: single student made it to lecture, fell asleep, professor kept teaching.  Sounds unlikely, but I have on good authority (passersby).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha .
Had the most monotone professor , world renowned in his particularly dry and boring field , but he put the Ben Stein teacher drone to shame.There were apocryphal-seeming stories of students falling asleep in upper-level grad classes of his .
Only seeming , because they sound unlikely , unless you ever took one of his classes.Case 1 : 3 or 4 students , one fell asleep , and at end of lecture prof shushed students , and turned out lights and crept out , leaving him asleep .
Case 2 : single student made it to lecture , fell asleep , professor kept teaching .
Sounds unlikely , but I have on good authority ( passersby ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha.
Had the most monotone professor, world renowned in his particularly dry and boring field, but he put the Ben Stein teacher drone to shame.There were apocryphal-seeming stories of students falling asleep in upper-level grad classes of his.
Only seeming, because they sound unlikely, unless you ever took one of his classes.Case 1: 3 or 4 students, one fell asleep, and at end of lecture prof shushed students, and turned out lights and crept out, leaving him asleep.
Case 2: single student made it to lecture, fell asleep, professor kept teaching.
Sounds unlikely, but I have on good authority (passersby).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426346</id>
	<title>Easy</title>
	<author>misfit815</author>
	<datestamp>1268237520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see what all the discussion's about - this should be the teacher's call. If they don't want laptops in their classroom, I don't care how good your counter-argument is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see what all the discussion 's about - this should be the teacher 's call .
If they do n't want laptops in their classroom , I do n't care how good your counter-argument is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see what all the discussion's about - this should be the teacher's call.
If they don't want laptops in their classroom, I don't care how good your counter-argument is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425220</id>
	<title>Re:First Post</title>
	<author>blai</author>
	<datestamp>1268231940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are expelled.<br>
<br>Regards, Prof. Dumbledore</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are expelled .
Regards , Prof. Dumbledore</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are expelled.
Regards, Prof. Dumbledore</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426178</id>
	<title>Fail</title>
	<author>GerryHattrick</author>
	<datestamp>1268236800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you give the sort of 'lecture' where notes on a laptop (or even in pencil) are an adequate result, you don't deserve your Chair.  A proper lecture motivates, enthuses, explains, gives insights into creativity - no notes can ever do justice to that.  So: no laptops please, nor... lecturers backs turned while they fill space with impenetrable garbled equations.  You can get that stuff in your own time from standard references.  On the topic, I want(ed) to know what makes that particular Professor tick.  The best of them used eye-contact - to a girl at the top-back of the lecture-theater: "do you like being alone?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you give the sort of 'lecture ' where notes on a laptop ( or even in pencil ) are an adequate result , you do n't deserve your Chair .
A proper lecture motivates , enthuses , explains , gives insights into creativity - no notes can ever do justice to that .
So : no laptops please , nor... lecturers backs turned while they fill space with impenetrable garbled equations .
You can get that stuff in your own time from standard references .
On the topic , I want ( ed ) to know what makes that particular Professor tick .
The best of them used eye-contact - to a girl at the top-back of the lecture-theater : " do you like being alone ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you give the sort of 'lecture' where notes on a laptop (or even in pencil) are an adequate result, you don't deserve your Chair.
A proper lecture motivates, enthuses, explains, gives insights into creativity - no notes can ever do justice to that.
So: no laptops please, nor... lecturers backs turned while they fill space with impenetrable garbled equations.
You can get that stuff in your own time from standard references.
On the topic, I want(ed) to know what makes that particular Professor tick.
The best of them used eye-contact - to a girl at the top-back of the lecture-theater: "do you like being alone?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425904</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>chill</author>
	<datestamp>1268235540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>it's a lesson in motion, partially elastic colisions and pendular motion.</p></div><p>And you chose monkeys over jiggling boobies for this?  Your class obviously needs a few more coeds.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's a lesson in motion , partially elastic colisions and pendular motion.And you chose monkeys over jiggling boobies for this ?
Your class obviously needs a few more coeds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's a lesson in motion, partially elastic colisions and pendular motion.And you chose monkeys over jiggling boobies for this?
Your class obviously needs a few more coeds.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427056</id>
	<title>in my day</title>
	<author>proxy318</author>
	<datestamp>1268240520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was in college, the best way I found to take notes was when the professor would hand out printouts of his slides, with some details left out. then i could just fill in the blanks, and wouldn't have to write so much that I couldn't really think about what was being said, but still ended up with complete notes. If this could be done on some sort of tablet, they they'd probably have some serious power. also, students who don't want to pay attention won't learn, will always find a way to waste time, and that's their problem. if they're not distracting other students, then I don't really see it as the professor's problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was in college , the best way I found to take notes was when the professor would hand out printouts of his slides , with some details left out .
then i could just fill in the blanks , and would n't have to write so much that I could n't really think about what was being said , but still ended up with complete notes .
If this could be done on some sort of tablet , they they 'd probably have some serious power .
also , students who do n't want to pay attention wo n't learn , will always find a way to waste time , and that 's their problem .
if they 're not distracting other students , then I do n't really see it as the professor 's problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was in college, the best way I found to take notes was when the professor would hand out printouts of his slides, with some details left out.
then i could just fill in the blanks, and wouldn't have to write so much that I couldn't really think about what was being said, but still ended up with complete notes.
If this could be done on some sort of tablet, they they'd probably have some serious power.
also, students who don't want to pay attention won't learn, will always find a way to waste time, and that's their problem.
if they're not distracting other students, then I don't really see it as the professor's problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31438812</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>mackyrae</author>
	<datestamp>1268327040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the teacher doesn't make it any *more* fun to learn, what good's it going to do? Fine, instead of zoning out staring at my laptop, I'll zone out staring at that funny bit of plaster in the corner or looking out the window.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the teacher does n't make it any * more * fun to learn , what good 's it going to do ?
Fine , instead of zoning out staring at my laptop , I 'll zone out staring at that funny bit of plaster in the corner or looking out the window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the teacher doesn't make it any *more* fun to learn, what good's it going to do?
Fine, instead of zoning out staring at my laptop, I'll zone out staring at that funny bit of plaster in the corner or looking out the window.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426726</id>
	<title>Absolutely</title>
	<author>pavon</author>
	<datestamp>1268239200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But part of the problem is that some professors try to cram so much information into such a small class period, that you don't have any time to wrap your head around what is being said in class. Mindless stenography is really your only survival option, especially when the prof is covering information that is not in the book. If they don't want students to act this way then:</p><p>Professors need to:<br>* Set realistic goals for what can be covered in a lecture, realizing that not everyone learns a the same pace.<br>* Provide comprehensive lecture notes for anything that is not in the book, and post them in advance of the lecture.</p><p>Students need to:<br>* Read the book and/or notes in advance.<br>* Focus on understanding what the professor is saying in class.<br>* Limit note-taking to annotating the provided lecture notes.</p><p>Even then, there are some subjects where you really won't understand the subject until you dig in and start applying what you have learned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But part of the problem is that some professors try to cram so much information into such a small class period , that you do n't have any time to wrap your head around what is being said in class .
Mindless stenography is really your only survival option , especially when the prof is covering information that is not in the book .
If they do n't want students to act this way then : Professors need to : * Set realistic goals for what can be covered in a lecture , realizing that not everyone learns a the same pace .
* Provide comprehensive lecture notes for anything that is not in the book , and post them in advance of the lecture.Students need to : * Read the book and/or notes in advance .
* Focus on understanding what the professor is saying in class .
* Limit note-taking to annotating the provided lecture notes.Even then , there are some subjects where you really wo n't understand the subject until you dig in and start applying what you have learned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But part of the problem is that some professors try to cram so much information into such a small class period, that you don't have any time to wrap your head around what is being said in class.
Mindless stenography is really your only survival option, especially when the prof is covering information that is not in the book.
If they don't want students to act this way then:Professors need to:* Set realistic goals for what can be covered in a lecture, realizing that not everyone learns a the same pace.
* Provide comprehensive lecture notes for anything that is not in the book, and post them in advance of the lecture.Students need to:* Read the book and/or notes in advance.
* Focus on understanding what the professor is saying in class.
* Limit note-taking to annotating the provided lecture notes.Even then, there are some subjects where you really won't understand the subject until you dig in and start applying what you have learned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428812</id>
	<title>Lack of basic consideration ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268248800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a professor, I always wonder why do these student even bother coming to class.</p><p>There are no attendance  requirements; all necessary information<br>about midterms, homework, and the final is posted on a website.  I list<br>the topics I cover each day so students could read (glance at) the relevant<br>sections of the book rather than attending lectures.</p><p>And yet, in the lowest level courses, I always have a fair number of students<br>not paying attention and disrupting the classroom.</p><p>I never paid any attention in my undergrad classes, so I understand the<br>impulse well.  But I had enough consideration for other students<br>to skip the class!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a professor , I always wonder why do these student even bother coming to class.There are no attendance requirements ; all necessary informationabout midterms , homework , and the final is posted on a website .
I listthe topics I cover each day so students could read ( glance at ) the relevantsections of the book rather than attending lectures.And yet , in the lowest level courses , I always have a fair number of studentsnot paying attention and disrupting the classroom.I never paid any attention in my undergrad classes , so I understand theimpulse well .
But I had enough consideration for other studentsto skip the class !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a professor, I always wonder why do these student even bother coming to class.There are no attendance  requirements; all necessary informationabout midterms, homework, and the final is posted on a website.
I listthe topics I cover each day so students could read (glance at) the relevantsections of the book rather than attending lectures.And yet, in the lowest level courses, I always have a fair number of studentsnot paying attention and disrupting the classroom.I never paid any attention in my undergrad classes, so I understand theimpulse well.
But I had enough consideration for other studentsto skip the class!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427390</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268242020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you find things you're learning in college "boring", maybe you took the wrong classes...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you find things you 're learning in college " boring " , maybe you took the wrong classes.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you find things you're learning in college "boring", maybe you took the wrong classes...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426188</id>
	<title>Just Deal With It</title>
	<author>rshol</author>
	<datestamp>1268236800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Computers, cell phones and other network connected devices are a fact of life.  They will be come more ubiquitous and more integrated into our lives than they are now.  Academia needs to adapt and learn to deal with them not ban them.  If students can't discipline themselves to pay attention in class despite the distraction, they deserve to fail.  If instructors can't motivate their students to learn despite the distraction, they do not deserve to teach.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Computers , cell phones and other network connected devices are a fact of life .
They will be come more ubiquitous and more integrated into our lives than they are now .
Academia needs to adapt and learn to deal with them not ban them .
If students ca n't discipline themselves to pay attention in class despite the distraction , they deserve to fail .
If instructors ca n't motivate their students to learn despite the distraction , they do not deserve to teach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computers, cell phones and other network connected devices are a fact of life.
They will be come more ubiquitous and more integrated into our lives than they are now.
Academia needs to adapt and learn to deal with them not ban them.
If students can't discipline themselves to pay attention in class despite the distraction, they deserve to fail.
If instructors can't motivate their students to learn despite the distraction, they do not deserve to teach.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429006</id>
	<title>So?</title>
	<author>dragoneye1589</author>
	<datestamp>1268249700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm failing to see how this is news.  Many courses of mine do not allow laptops.  I even had classes that required you to sit in the front row if you wanted to use your laptop.  For me I have had classes that I only attended because of the rare occasion something useful came up and entertained myself with my laptop most of the time instead, otherwise all my notes are pen and paper.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm failing to see how this is news .
Many courses of mine do not allow laptops .
I even had classes that required you to sit in the front row if you wanted to use your laptop .
For me I have had classes that I only attended because of the rare occasion something useful came up and entertained myself with my laptop most of the time instead , otherwise all my notes are pen and paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm failing to see how this is news.
Many courses of mine do not allow laptops.
I even had classes that required you to sit in the front row if you wanted to use your laptop.
For me I have had classes that I only attended because of the rare occasion something useful came up and entertained myself with my laptop most of the time instead, otherwise all my notes are pen and paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426722</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>tophermeyer</author>
	<datestamp>1268239140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves.</p> </div><p>My thought is that these people also de-value the degree and the reputation of the school, thereby making my degree less impressive regardless of how hard I worked or how successful I was.  This kind of student behavior might be expected or tolerated by County Community College, but for a school like GWU this behavior damages their reputation.  </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves .
My thought is that these people also de-value the degree and the reputation of the school , thereby making my degree less impressive regardless of how hard I worked or how successful I was .
This kind of student behavior might be expected or tolerated by County Community College , but for a school like GWU this behavior damages their reputation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves.
My thought is that these people also de-value the degree and the reputation of the school, thereby making my degree less impressive regardless of how hard I worked or how successful I was.
This kind of student behavior might be expected or tolerated by County Community College, but for a school like GWU this behavior damages their reputation.  
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</id>
	<title>False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268230560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doodling with pen and paper doesn't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Doodling with pen and paper does n't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doodling with pen and paper doesn't absorb the attention to the same degree as playing Facebook games and chatting with friends via IM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427482</id>
	<title>Notes from my Father: 4.0 top of med school class.</title>
	<author>2obvious4u</author>
	<datestamp>1268242560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The most successful person I've ever known, my father, told me the secret to good grades in school.  He would take a tape recorder to class and record the lecture, then after class he would go home and transcribe the notes.  He was amazed how much he would miss during the lecture.  The other students in his class would complain at test time that the professor never covered the material, but my father always had the answers.  There were there in his transcriptions.<br>
<br>
When I went to college I attempted this method, but I didn't have the stamina.  I ended up with a B/C average when I graduated, but I had a lot of fun.  I'm not making seven figures like he does, hell I'm not even earning six figures yet.  So was having no social life worth the seven figure salary?  Definitely, but how to you train yourself to have that level of self discipline?<br>
<br>
The reason transcribing works so well is that during the lecture you miss a large percentage of the material to distractions, then on top of that you only remember a fraction of that.  By transcribing the lecture you get exposed at least once to 100\% of the material covered, then you can re-enforce what you've covered later when you review the transcripts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The most successful person I 've ever known , my father , told me the secret to good grades in school .
He would take a tape recorder to class and record the lecture , then after class he would go home and transcribe the notes .
He was amazed how much he would miss during the lecture .
The other students in his class would complain at test time that the professor never covered the material , but my father always had the answers .
There were there in his transcriptions .
When I went to college I attempted this method , but I did n't have the stamina .
I ended up with a B/C average when I graduated , but I had a lot of fun .
I 'm not making seven figures like he does , hell I 'm not even earning six figures yet .
So was having no social life worth the seven figure salary ?
Definitely , but how to you train yourself to have that level of self discipline ?
The reason transcribing works so well is that during the lecture you miss a large percentage of the material to distractions , then on top of that you only remember a fraction of that .
By transcribing the lecture you get exposed at least once to 100 \ % of the material covered , then you can re-enforce what you 've covered later when you review the transcripts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The most successful person I've ever known, my father, told me the secret to good grades in school.
He would take a tape recorder to class and record the lecture, then after class he would go home and transcribe the notes.
He was amazed how much he would miss during the lecture.
The other students in his class would complain at test time that the professor never covered the material, but my father always had the answers.
There were there in his transcriptions.
When I went to college I attempted this method, but I didn't have the stamina.
I ended up with a B/C average when I graduated, but I had a lot of fun.
I'm not making seven figures like he does, hell I'm not even earning six figures yet.
So was having no social life worth the seven figure salary?
Definitely, but how to you train yourself to have that level of self discipline?
The reason transcribing works so well is that during the lecture you miss a large percentage of the material to distractions, then on top of that you only remember a fraction of that.
By transcribing the lecture you get exposed at least once to 100\% of the material covered, then you can re-enforce what you've covered later when you review the transcripts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425746</id>
	<title>Learn by intraction</title>
	<author>realsilly</author>
	<datestamp>1268234580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem or problems with laptops is that they are distracting.  Even if someone is truely typing notes and doing it in a way that summarizes the lecture, for other people sitting near, seeing a display screen or hearing clicking can be vastly distracting.</p><p>While it is true, people learn in different ways, people need to be able to learn with out a monitor in their face.  I fear one reason that students are opposed to this is simply because they don't know how to write using pen and paper.  It has been stated in past Slashdot articles that the art of writing is dying.  The thing about writing that people don't get today is that because we write slower than we listen, we force ourselves to remember what the professors said.  If we miss what was stated, we asked for the statement to be revistied or repeated, thus adding to the natural way people learn and comprehend.</p><p>Some other posted suggested that the professor give the students the notes, well I almost spit my coffee out when I read that.  Does not every class have a book that goes with it?  I know I had a book for each class I took in college.  Students are already expected to read before coming to class, and I suspect the majority of students rarely crack the books before the lessons, but rather only to cram for the exams.</p><p>College isn't about making your life easy.  It is a place for higher education.  It is a place for one to challenge themselves to learn and take in all this wonderful new information.  Classroom discussions with professors are the ones students most remember and are very informative when people get involved.  The purpose these professors have in mind is for students to interact more.  Teaching isn't about spewing out a bunch of notest to students it is about exciting them and teaching them and prompting them to think outside of the box and explore the subject matter at hand.</p><p>Close those notebooks and listen.  You'll be amazed at how much more you'll comprehend and take in, I promise....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem or problems with laptops is that they are distracting .
Even if someone is truely typing notes and doing it in a way that summarizes the lecture , for other people sitting near , seeing a display screen or hearing clicking can be vastly distracting.While it is true , people learn in different ways , people need to be able to learn with out a monitor in their face .
I fear one reason that students are opposed to this is simply because they do n't know how to write using pen and paper .
It has been stated in past Slashdot articles that the art of writing is dying .
The thing about writing that people do n't get today is that because we write slower than we listen , we force ourselves to remember what the professors said .
If we miss what was stated , we asked for the statement to be revistied or repeated , thus adding to the natural way people learn and comprehend.Some other posted suggested that the professor give the students the notes , well I almost spit my coffee out when I read that .
Does not every class have a book that goes with it ?
I know I had a book for each class I took in college .
Students are already expected to read before coming to class , and I suspect the majority of students rarely crack the books before the lessons , but rather only to cram for the exams.College is n't about making your life easy .
It is a place for higher education .
It is a place for one to challenge themselves to learn and take in all this wonderful new information .
Classroom discussions with professors are the ones students most remember and are very informative when people get involved .
The purpose these professors have in mind is for students to interact more .
Teaching is n't about spewing out a bunch of notest to students it is about exciting them and teaching them and prompting them to think outside of the box and explore the subject matter at hand.Close those notebooks and listen .
You 'll be amazed at how much more you 'll comprehend and take in , I promise... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem or problems with laptops is that they are distracting.
Even if someone is truely typing notes and doing it in a way that summarizes the lecture, for other people sitting near, seeing a display screen or hearing clicking can be vastly distracting.While it is true, people learn in different ways, people need to be able to learn with out a monitor in their face.
I fear one reason that students are opposed to this is simply because they don't know how to write using pen and paper.
It has been stated in past Slashdot articles that the art of writing is dying.
The thing about writing that people don't get today is that because we write slower than we listen, we force ourselves to remember what the professors said.
If we miss what was stated, we asked for the statement to be revistied or repeated, thus adding to the natural way people learn and comprehend.Some other posted suggested that the professor give the students the notes, well I almost spit my coffee out when I read that.
Does not every class have a book that goes with it?
I know I had a book for each class I took in college.
Students are already expected to read before coming to class, and I suspect the majority of students rarely crack the books before the lessons, but rather only to cram for the exams.College isn't about making your life easy.
It is a place for higher education.
It is a place for one to challenge themselves to learn and take in all this wonderful new information.
Classroom discussions with professors are the ones students most remember and are very informative when people get involved.
The purpose these professors have in mind is for students to interact more.
Teaching isn't about spewing out a bunch of notest to students it is about exciting them and teaching them and prompting them to think outside of the box and explore the subject matter at hand.Close those notebooks and listen.
You'll be amazed at how much more you'll comprehend and take in, I promise....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426024</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268236140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's. That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'"</i></p><p>Exactly. Not learning by playing games during a lecture is functionally the same as not showing up at all. So what's next, the banning of "not showing up"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How someone learns is their own business , not the lecturer 's .
That 's why it 's a lecture and not a 'class ' " Exactly .
Not learning by playing games during a lecture is functionally the same as not showing up at all .
So what 's next , the banning of " not showing up " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's.
That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'"Exactly.
Not learning by playing games during a lecture is functionally the same as not showing up at all.
So what's next, the banning of "not showing up"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Sarten-X</author>
	<datestamp>1268235060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It'd be nice if maturity worked that way, but it doesn't. Humans in general are easily distracted, no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you're working in. Everything is a competition for attention. Whether it's a sales pitch, a lecture, or a political debate, the presenter with the most substance AND the most interesting delivery will come out the victor. Sure, it's possible for a student to force himself to pay attention, but that will just make the class seem like a hostile environment, no less than draconian rules and bullying do the same for elementary school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'd be nice if maturity worked that way , but it does n't .
Humans in general are easily distracted , no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you 're working in .
Everything is a competition for attention .
Whether it 's a sales pitch , a lecture , or a political debate , the presenter with the most substance AND the most interesting delivery will come out the victor .
Sure , it 's possible for a student to force himself to pay attention , but that will just make the class seem like a hostile environment , no less than draconian rules and bullying do the same for elementary school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'd be nice if maturity worked that way, but it doesn't.
Humans in general are easily distracted, no matter how mature they are or what kind of media you're working in.
Everything is a competition for attention.
Whether it's a sales pitch, a lecture, or a political debate, the presenter with the most substance AND the most interesting delivery will come out the victor.
Sure, it's possible for a student to force himself to pay attention, but that will just make the class seem like a hostile environment, no less than draconian rules and bullying do the same for elementary school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428120</id>
	<title>Silence</title>
	<author>Jeremy Erwin</author>
	<datestamp>1268245380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most laptops also create quite a bit of noise. Ditch the fan and switch to an SSD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most laptops also create quite a bit of noise .
Ditch the fan and switch to an SSD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most laptops also create quite a bit of noise.
Ditch the fan and switch to an SSD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425410</id>
	<title>Respect</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm first time poster, long time reader, basicially i'm 22, went through the last years of high school and got good enough marks to do something like dentistry in university(in aus). Anyway, i didn't do that. I emplore people to learn in their own way, but if the quote comes out "oh, let me check my laptop" thats just wrong. Sure, you may have touch typed your notes etc. but its not in your head. Get real, everyone really.... i mean lectures and students. You teachers grew up in a different environment, your teaching in something different. Learn it, dont ban it. Students, your dealing with old farts, just entertain them, hold a pen to a piece of paper.<br>JESUS (oh wait, cross that) NON-OFFENSIVE TERM; please just try to be nice to each other, what harm could come? an old teacher? just use the damn notebook (not laptop/notebook), please them. Is it that damn hard?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm first time poster , long time reader , basicially i 'm 22 , went through the last years of high school and got good enough marks to do something like dentistry in university ( in aus ) .
Anyway , i did n't do that .
I emplore people to learn in their own way , but if the quote comes out " oh , let me check my laptop " thats just wrong .
Sure , you may have touch typed your notes etc .
but its not in your head .
Get real , everyone really.... i mean lectures and students .
You teachers grew up in a different environment , your teaching in something different .
Learn it , dont ban it .
Students , your dealing with old farts , just entertain them , hold a pen to a piece of paper.JESUS ( oh wait , cross that ) NON-OFFENSIVE TERM ; please just try to be nice to each other , what harm could come ?
an old teacher ?
just use the damn notebook ( not laptop/notebook ) , please them .
Is it that damn hard ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm first time poster, long time reader, basicially i'm 22, went through the last years of high school and got good enough marks to do something like dentistry in university(in aus).
Anyway, i didn't do that.
I emplore people to learn in their own way, but if the quote comes out "oh, let me check my laptop" thats just wrong.
Sure, you may have touch typed your notes etc.
but its not in your head.
Get real, everyone really.... i mean lectures and students.
You teachers grew up in a different environment, your teaching in something different.
Learn it, dont ban it.
Students, your dealing with old farts, just entertain them, hold a pen to a piece of paper.JESUS (oh wait, cross that) NON-OFFENSIVE TERM; please just try to be nice to each other, what harm could come?
an old teacher?
just use the damn notebook (not laptop/notebook), please them.
Is it that damn hard?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428476</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Gkeeper80</author>
	<datestamp>1268247240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, students who really aren't paying any attention are likely to fail courses and quickly fall below enrollment standards, so there's already a fail-safe here.</p><p>On the other hand, restricting access to technology is a draconian measure that can have unintended consequences (many outlined throughout this discussion).</p><p>The reality is, schools don't want students to fail out.  There are plenty of altruistic and selfish reasons for this, but it's in their best interest for their students to succeed.  There's no reason that schools can't inform students about the dangers of distractions during class time without setting up new rules.</p><p>Professors who enact bans, rather than working to improve their teaching style are doing a disservice to their students, schools, and subject areas.  The college experience should be more broad that simply "learn what I tell you about this subject" and part of that lesson should be helping to find your personal learning style.  As adults, students also have the option to make up their own minds about what information is useful, accurate, or ignorable.  Professors should be doing their best to explain why their information is worthy of attention and acceptance.</p><p>Let the natural incentive structure demonstrate which learning methods work best and more power to the students who can play video games in class while still mastering the material.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , students who really are n't paying any attention are likely to fail courses and quickly fall below enrollment standards , so there 's already a fail-safe here.On the other hand , restricting access to technology is a draconian measure that can have unintended consequences ( many outlined throughout this discussion ) .The reality is , schools do n't want students to fail out .
There are plenty of altruistic and selfish reasons for this , but it 's in their best interest for their students to succeed .
There 's no reason that schools ca n't inform students about the dangers of distractions during class time without setting up new rules.Professors who enact bans , rather than working to improve their teaching style are doing a disservice to their students , schools , and subject areas .
The college experience should be more broad that simply " learn what I tell you about this subject " and part of that lesson should be helping to find your personal learning style .
As adults , students also have the option to make up their own minds about what information is useful , accurate , or ignorable .
Professors should be doing their best to explain why their information is worthy of attention and acceptance.Let the natural incentive structure demonstrate which learning methods work best and more power to the students who can play video games in class while still mastering the material .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, students who really aren't paying any attention are likely to fail courses and quickly fall below enrollment standards, so there's already a fail-safe here.On the other hand, restricting access to technology is a draconian measure that can have unintended consequences (many outlined throughout this discussion).The reality is, schools don't want students to fail out.
There are plenty of altruistic and selfish reasons for this, but it's in their best interest for their students to succeed.
There's no reason that schools can't inform students about the dangers of distractions during class time without setting up new rules.Professors who enact bans, rather than working to improve their teaching style are doing a disservice to their students, schools, and subject areas.
The college experience should be more broad that simply "learn what I tell you about this subject" and part of that lesson should be helping to find your personal learning style.
As adults, students also have the option to make up their own minds about what information is useful, accurate, or ignorable.
Professors should be doing their best to explain why their information is worthy of attention and acceptance.Let the natural incentive structure demonstrate which learning methods work best and more power to the students who can play video games in class while still mastering the material.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428290</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a bit of a paradox that you say you're studying "Visual Effects", yet ragging on youth who are engrossing themselves with the indirect products of said effects. All so you can go back and help PRODUCE more of those effects!</p><p>Fucking hypocrite.</p><p>Those same kids whom you have a problem with will come up with bigger and better effects, right there under your nose.</p><p>But, then again, you ARE getting old, so...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a bit of a paradox that you say you 're studying " Visual Effects " , yet ragging on youth who are engrossing themselves with the indirect products of said effects .
All so you can go back and help PRODUCE more of those effects ! Fucking hypocrite.Those same kids whom you have a problem with will come up with bigger and better effects , right there under your nose.But , then again , you ARE getting old , so.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a bit of a paradox that you say you're studying "Visual Effects", yet ragging on youth who are engrossing themselves with the indirect products of said effects.
All so you can go back and help PRODUCE more of those effects!Fucking hypocrite.Those same kids whom you have a problem with will come up with bigger and better effects, right there under your nose.But, then again, you ARE getting old, so...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425368</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>bwalling</author>
	<datestamp>1268232540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on. On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.</p></div></blockquote><p>I've been going back to school to get a Master's at night.  It's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops.  While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I don't have any video playing on a screen in front of me, it's not always possible.  I have to leave work to get to class, so I can't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots.<br> <br>From a purely anecdotal perspective, I'd say 60-70\% of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment, not note taking.  At the very least, I'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The way I see it , unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \ _other \ _ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on .
On the other hand , if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise ( intended or not ) and it is distracting the professor or other students , then I see a problem.I 've been going back to school to get a Master 's at night .
It 's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops .
While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I do n't have any video playing on a screen in front of me , it 's not always possible .
I have to leave work to get to class , so I ca n't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots .
From a purely anecdotal perspective , I 'd say 60-70 \ % of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment , not note taking .
At the very least , I 'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on.
On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.I've been going back to school to get a Master's at night.
It's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops.
While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I don't have any video playing on a screen in front of me, it's not always possible.
I have to leave work to get to class, so I can't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots.
From a purely anecdotal perspective, I'd say 60-70\% of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment, not note taking.
At the very least, I'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425354</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Greymane</author>
	<datestamp>1268232480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, professors are graded on the success of their students. If they perceive that the laptop/cell phone is preventing the students from learning, it is in their best interest to block their use during class. Also, why would you be attending class, only to ignore what is being discussed?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , professors are graded on the success of their students .
If they perceive that the laptop/cell phone is preventing the students from learning , it is in their best interest to block their use during class .
Also , why would you be attending class , only to ignore what is being discussed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, professors are graded on the success of their students.
If they perceive that the laptop/cell phone is preventing the students from learning, it is in their best interest to block their use during class.
Also, why would you be attending class, only to ignore what is being discussed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425650</id>
	<title>Note taking isn't stenography</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see a lot of people commenting on how fast they need to type/write in order to take notes.  I find this a little odd, because if you're taking down more information than you can easily handwrite, you're probably not taking notes properly in the first place.
<br>  <br> 
The point of taking notes is to compress the information into a salient outline structure and then insert only the most important information.  Just copying, verbatim, what a professor says isn't, in any real sense, "note taking".  Note taking implies that you're selectively recording the parts of what the professor is saying that are most important.  Just copying down everything is something else entirely, and is dreadfully inefficient, first because you can easily get the jist of what someone says without recording their exact wording, and second because it makes reviewing the notes mostly a waste of time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a lot of people commenting on how fast they need to type/write in order to take notes .
I find this a little odd , because if you 're taking down more information than you can easily handwrite , you 're probably not taking notes properly in the first place .
The point of taking notes is to compress the information into a salient outline structure and then insert only the most important information .
Just copying , verbatim , what a professor says is n't , in any real sense , " note taking " .
Note taking implies that you 're selectively recording the parts of what the professor is saying that are most important .
Just copying down everything is something else entirely , and is dreadfully inefficient , first because you can easily get the jist of what someone says without recording their exact wording , and second because it makes reviewing the notes mostly a waste of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a lot of people commenting on how fast they need to type/write in order to take notes.
I find this a little odd, because if you're taking down more information than you can easily handwrite, you're probably not taking notes properly in the first place.
The point of taking notes is to compress the information into a salient outline structure and then insert only the most important information.
Just copying, verbatim, what a professor says isn't, in any real sense, "note taking".
Note taking implies that you're selectively recording the parts of what the professor is saying that are most important.
Just copying down everything is something else entirely, and is dreadfully inefficient, first because you can easily get the jist of what someone says without recording their exact wording, and second because it makes reviewing the notes mostly a waste of time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425752</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Garwulf</author>
	<datestamp>1268234640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to put too fine a point on it, but...</p><p>1. A lecture IS a type of class.</p><p>2. The best teaching professors are the ones who take a personal interest in the success of their students.</p><p>So, while you are correct that your own learning style is your own business, complaining about a professor actually being good is a bit on the stupid side - particularly when they're trying to keep students from proverbially shooting themselves in the foot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to put too fine a point on it , but...1 .
A lecture IS a type of class.2 .
The best teaching professors are the ones who take a personal interest in the success of their students.So , while you are correct that your own learning style is your own business , complaining about a professor actually being good is a bit on the stupid side - particularly when they 're trying to keep students from proverbially shooting themselves in the foot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to put too fine a point on it, but...1.
A lecture IS a type of class.2.
The best teaching professors are the ones who take a personal interest in the success of their students.So, while you are correct that your own learning style is your own business, complaining about a professor actually being good is a bit on the stupid side - particularly when they're trying to keep students from proverbially shooting themselves in the foot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425420</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1268232840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree.</p><p>Most lecture halls I've ever been in were setup stadium style, this makes it very easy to see the board and the professor.  Even if the person sitting "directly" in front of me (usually off to the side a tad) was playing WoW, it's still very easy to see the professor.</p><p>If this was a classroom where the open laptop partially obscures my view, I'd probably fully agree with you as it's always in your direct view.  However, being off in a peripheral makes it quite easy to ignore.</p><p>I've been in classrooms in the past 10 years with other students playing games and I was able to see their screen quite easily.  As long as I wasn't already distracted mentally, I never had an issue paying attention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see what you 're saying , but I have to disagree.Most lecture halls I 've ever been in were setup stadium style , this makes it very easy to see the board and the professor .
Even if the person sitting " directly " in front of me ( usually off to the side a tad ) was playing WoW , it 's still very easy to see the professor.If this was a classroom where the open laptop partially obscures my view , I 'd probably fully agree with you as it 's always in your direct view .
However , being off in a peripheral makes it quite easy to ignore.I 've been in classrooms in the past 10 years with other students playing games and I was able to see their screen quite easily .
As long as I was n't already distracted mentally , I never had an issue paying attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree.Most lecture halls I've ever been in were setup stadium style, this makes it very easy to see the board and the professor.
Even if the person sitting "directly" in front of me (usually off to the side a tad) was playing WoW, it's still very easy to see the professor.If this was a classroom where the open laptop partially obscures my view, I'd probably fully agree with you as it's always in your direct view.
However, being off in a peripheral makes it quite easy to ignore.I've been in classrooms in the past 10 years with other students playing games and I was able to see their screen quite easily.
As long as I wasn't already distracted mentally, I never had an issue paying attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426204</id>
	<title>I agree with it</title>
	<author>MistrBlank</author>
	<datestamp>1268236860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a prof that forbid us from writing in class too.  He used slides and provided the slides to everyone that attended class.</p><p>But he also interacted with students and made them involved with the lectures at every step.  It was his style of teaching that facilitated this.  Some profs don't care what you do as a student because it's your own time you waste, and that's fine too.  But if a prof doesn't want you doing something in their classroom, that's their perogative.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a prof that forbid us from writing in class too .
He used slides and provided the slides to everyone that attended class.But he also interacted with students and made them involved with the lectures at every step .
It was his style of teaching that facilitated this .
Some profs do n't care what you do as a student because it 's your own time you waste , and that 's fine too .
But if a prof does n't want you doing something in their classroom , that 's their perogative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a prof that forbid us from writing in class too.
He used slides and provided the slides to everyone that attended class.But he also interacted with students and made them involved with the lectures at every step.
It was his style of teaching that facilitated this.
Some profs don't care what you do as a student because it's your own time you waste, and that's fine too.
But if a prof doesn't want you doing something in their classroom, that's their perogative.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>kainewynd2</author>
	<datestamp>1268233680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I completely agree.  So far the comments here are very much what I would expect.  'Let everyone learn in their own style,' 'The Professor is an egotistical twit,' 'It's the teacher's fault for not being enthralling enough,' etc.</p><p>When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN.  They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful.  That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.</p><p>Given the option of learning about international trade routes during the 18th century or playing Unreal with my slacker friends back in the dorm and it would have been an easy choice.  The kicker here is that I *loved* the class, but hated that part, regardless of how important it was to the overall class.</p><p>Allowing me the option to fully tune out would have been a mistake, regardless of how much of a blessing it would have been at the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I completely agree .
So far the comments here are very much what I would expect .
'Let everyone learn in their own style, ' 'The Professor is an egotistical twit, ' 'It 's the teacher 's fault for not being enthralling enough, ' etc.When it comes down to it , this is n't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN .
They are boring as hell , but incredibly useful .
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Given the option of learning about international trade routes during the 18th century or playing Unreal with my slacker friends back in the dorm and it would have been an easy choice .
The kicker here is that I * loved * the class , but hated that part , regardless of how important it was to the overall class.Allowing me the option to fully tune out would have been a mistake , regardless of how much of a blessing it would have been at the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I completely agree.
So far the comments here are very much what I would expect.
'Let everyone learn in their own style,' 'The Professor is an egotistical twit,' 'It's the teacher's fault for not being enthralling enough,' etc.When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN.
They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful.
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Given the option of learning about international trade routes during the 18th century or playing Unreal with my slacker friends back in the dorm and it would have been an easy choice.
The kicker here is that I *loved* the class, but hated that part, regardless of how important it was to the overall class.Allowing me the option to fully tune out would have been a mistake, regardless of how much of a blessing it would have been at the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31462592</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268473980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Here's a thought: Instead of banning distractions, be the distraction yourself. For centuries, teachers have been competing with distractions, including daydreamers and sleepers. Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with. Instead, make your lectures interesting. Vary the tone of your voice, provide practical examples, and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk. Yes, you're a professor. Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas. No, they are not paying to just hear your voice.</i> </p><p>This is exactly the crap that drove me out of teaching.</p><p>It was in the 1960s. Up until that time, kids went to school as I did -- to learn, or else.</p><p>By the time I was doing my student teaching, the philosophy had become, "If the student fails, it's the teacher's fault."</p><p>Teaching was no longer enough -- you had to be a friend, counselor, shrink and everything else that was lacking in a student's life. No parental discipline -- your problem. Kid doesn't give a damn -- your problem. Kid had no breakfast -- your fault.</p><p>You can lead a horse to water,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a thought : Instead of banning distractions , be the distraction yourself .
For centuries , teachers have been competing with distractions , including daydreamers and sleepers .
Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with .
Instead , make your lectures interesting .
Vary the tone of your voice , provide practical examples , and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk .
Yes , you 're a professor .
Yes , students are paying to hear your ideas .
No , they are not paying to just hear your voice .
This is exactly the crap that drove me out of teaching.It was in the 1960s .
Up until that time , kids went to school as I did -- to learn , or else.By the time I was doing my student teaching , the philosophy had become , " If the student fails , it 's the teacher 's fault .
" Teaching was no longer enough -- you had to be a friend , counselor , shrink and everything else that was lacking in a student 's life .
No parental discipline -- your problem .
Kid does n't give a damn -- your problem .
Kid had no breakfast -- your fault.You can lead a horse to water , ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a thought: Instead of banning distractions, be the distraction yourself.
For centuries, teachers have been competing with distractions, including daydreamers and sleepers.
Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with.
Instead, make your lectures interesting.
Vary the tone of your voice, provide practical examples, and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk.
Yes, you're a professor.
Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas.
No, they are not paying to just hear your voice.
This is exactly the crap that drove me out of teaching.It was in the 1960s.
Up until that time, kids went to school as I did -- to learn, or else.By the time I was doing my student teaching, the philosophy had become, "If the student fails, it's the teacher's fault.
"Teaching was no longer enough -- you had to be a friend, counselor, shrink and everything else that was lacking in a student's life.
No parental discipline -- your problem.
Kid doesn't give a damn -- your problem.
Kid had no breakfast -- your fault.You can lead a horse to water, ....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426676</id>
	<title>That's not the half of it</title>
	<author>JesseHathaway</author>
	<datestamp>1268238960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Current college student here.

In my experience, the "distraction" argument comes up a lot from professors banning laptops, but an argument comes up just as frequently.  Professors who ban laptops in their classrooms ioften argue that they present an unfair advantage for students who don't have laptops.  I like use my laptop for taking notes, as I can keep my notes highly organized and keep up with the lecture's pace.  My top typing speed is around 100 WPM with 99\% accuracy, so typing makes things very easy.  I avoid the stenographer pitfall, as I like to leave myself notes about what the professor is talking about and rephrase concepts.

I actually had a professor deny my accommodation request, on the grounds that, on the first day of class, I was taking notes and had been chuckling softly (I think I might have made 3 soft chuckles, tops.  How she heard me from the other side of the room, I don't know) about the irony of a British priest writing to the Brits about how horrible the Colonial Spaniards were to the Native Americans.  She assumed that I had been talking online or something and was laughing about that.

I tried to argue my case, but eventually decided just to conform and accede to her demands.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Current college student here .
In my experience , the " distraction " argument comes up a lot from professors banning laptops , but an argument comes up just as frequently .
Professors who ban laptops in their classrooms ioften argue that they present an unfair advantage for students who do n't have laptops .
I like use my laptop for taking notes , as I can keep my notes highly organized and keep up with the lecture 's pace .
My top typing speed is around 100 WPM with 99 \ % accuracy , so typing makes things very easy .
I avoid the stenographer pitfall , as I like to leave myself notes about what the professor is talking about and rephrase concepts .
I actually had a professor deny my accommodation request , on the grounds that , on the first day of class , I was taking notes and had been chuckling softly ( I think I might have made 3 soft chuckles , tops .
How she heard me from the other side of the room , I do n't know ) about the irony of a British priest writing to the Brits about how horrible the Colonial Spaniards were to the Native Americans .
She assumed that I had been talking online or something and was laughing about that .
I tried to argue my case , but eventually decided just to conform and accede to her demands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Current college student here.
In my experience, the "distraction" argument comes up a lot from professors banning laptops, but an argument comes up just as frequently.
Professors who ban laptops in their classrooms ioften argue that they present an unfair advantage for students who don't have laptops.
I like use my laptop for taking notes, as I can keep my notes highly organized and keep up with the lecture's pace.
My top typing speed is around 100 WPM with 99\% accuracy, so typing makes things very easy.
I avoid the stenographer pitfall, as I like to leave myself notes about what the professor is talking about and rephrase concepts.
I actually had a professor deny my accommodation request, on the grounds that, on the first day of class, I was taking notes and had been chuckling softly (I think I might have made 3 soft chuckles, tops.
How she heard me from the other side of the room, I don't know) about the irony of a British priest writing to the Brits about how horrible the Colonial Spaniards were to the Native Americans.
She assumed that I had been talking online or something and was laughing about that.
I tried to argue my case, but eventually decided just to conform and accede to her demands.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31465410</id>
	<title>Re:What's next? Burkas?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268509200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why on earth was this modded flamebait?</p><p>That's one of the primary arguments *for* Burkas by those who support the tradition, and for those who don't it's a prime example of moral paternalism gone awry.</p><p>It's a compelling parallel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why on earth was this modded flamebait ? That 's one of the primary arguments * for * Burkas by those who support the tradition , and for those who do n't it 's a prime example of moral paternalism gone awry.It 's a compelling parallel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why on earth was this modded flamebait?That's one of the primary arguments *for* Burkas by those who support the tradition, and for those who don't it's a prime example of moral paternalism gone awry.It's a compelling parallel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435902</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>goose-incarnated</author>
	<datestamp>1268305740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I disagree - for the same reason that flashing banner ads get blocked within my browser even though they don't cover the material. Just because some flashing screen is not actually blocking your view of the board doesn't mean that it isn't distracting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree - for the same reason that flashing banner ads get blocked within my browser even though they do n't cover the material .
Just because some flashing screen is not actually blocking your view of the board does n't mean that it is n't distracting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree - for the same reason that flashing banner ads get blocked within my browser even though they don't cover the material.
Just because some flashing screen is not actually blocking your view of the board doesn't mean that it isn't distracting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427100</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Paradigm\_Complex</author>
	<datestamp>1268240760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've been going back to school to get a Master's at night. It's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops. While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I don't have any video playing on a screen in front of me, it's not always possible. I have to leave work to get to class, so I can't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots.<br> <br>
From a purely anecdotal perspective, I'd say 60-70\% of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment, not note taking. At the very least, I'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.</p></div><p>So explain to the professor your situation.  You have a difficult time focusing with laptops in front of you, and you can't get to class early enough to guarantee yourself a seat in the front row because of work.  Request that a seat in the front row be reserved for you.  If you honestly expect the professor would consider allocating seats for all the laptop users, surely s/he'd be willing to do so for just you.<br> <br>

Don't take out your frustration over your own learning problems on others.  Many of us learn better with laptops.  Even by your own admission, 30~40\% of the laptop users in class aren't using the laptop for entertainment.  Just because we're a minority doesn't mean we should be forced to sit in the back of the bus^H^H^Hroom.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been going back to school to get a Master 's at night .
It 's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops .
While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I do n't have any video playing on a screen in front of me , it 's not always possible .
I have to leave work to get to class , so I ca n't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots .
From a purely anecdotal perspective , I 'd say 60-70 \ % of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment , not note taking .
At the very least , I 'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.So explain to the professor your situation .
You have a difficult time focusing with laptops in front of you , and you ca n't get to class early enough to guarantee yourself a seat in the front row because of work .
Request that a seat in the front row be reserved for you .
If you honestly expect the professor would consider allocating seats for all the laptop users , surely s/he 'd be willing to do so for just you .
Do n't take out your frustration over your own learning problems on others .
Many of us learn better with laptops .
Even by your own admission , 30 ~ 40 \ % of the laptop users in class are n't using the laptop for entertainment .
Just because we 're a minority does n't mean we should be forced to sit in the back of the bus ^ H ^ H ^ Hroom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been going back to school to get a Master's at night.
It's pretty annoying that the classroom is full of kids watching TV or movies on their laptops.
While I do what I can to sit near the front so that I don't have any video playing on a screen in front of me, it's not always possible.
I have to leave work to get to class, so I can't just show up early enough to get in front of the TV watching idiots.
From a purely anecdotal perspective, I'd say 60-70\% of laptops in the college classroom are being used for entertainment, not note taking.
At the very least, I'd like to see them confined to the back few rows of the room.So explain to the professor your situation.
You have a difficult time focusing with laptops in front of you, and you can't get to class early enough to guarantee yourself a seat in the front row because of work.
Request that a seat in the front row be reserved for you.
If you honestly expect the professor would consider allocating seats for all the laptop users, surely s/he'd be willing to do so for just you.
Don't take out your frustration over your own learning problems on others.
Many of us learn better with laptops.
Even by your own admission, 30~40\% of the laptop users in class aren't using the laptop for entertainment.
Just because we're a minority doesn't mean we should be forced to sit in the back of the bus^H^H^Hroom.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425604</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Herkum01</author>
	<datestamp>1268233740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a professor wanted students to interact, they would be handing out notes, instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a professor wanted students to interact , they would be handing out notes , instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a professor wanted students to interact, they would be handing out notes, instead of requiring everyone to focus on writing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427260</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Provided the sound is turned off and the keyboards aren't too clacky, there actually is a solution for not distracting others with your screen content. 3M (and perhaps others) sell these things called <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=screen+privacy+filter" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">screen privacy filters.</a> [google.com] Why not make having one of those attached as a prerequisite for allowing any laptops into the lecture room?</p><p>I think if professors were really worried about students only being a stenographer (which is actually easy enough to do even when writing, especially when the material is presented too fast), they would pause the lecture at key moments and do impromptu quizzing of a random selection of students or a short Q&amp;A before moving to the next section. Doing that would definitely get students to pay attention. (I think the only reason this isn't done is because the people running institutions are more concerned with how long classes take and getting people through a course in a given time period, rather than how well they learn the material they're supposed to know once they recieve their diploma. Not to mention that there are some profs also teach only on the clock, and to them wrapping up a lesson is more important than how well students are doing.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Provided the sound is turned off and the keyboards are n't too clacky , there actually is a solution for not distracting others with your screen content .
3M ( and perhaps others ) sell these things called screen privacy filters .
[ google.com ] Why not make having one of those attached as a prerequisite for allowing any laptops into the lecture room ? I think if professors were really worried about students only being a stenographer ( which is actually easy enough to do even when writing , especially when the material is presented too fast ) , they would pause the lecture at key moments and do impromptu quizzing of a random selection of students or a short Q&amp;A before moving to the next section .
Doing that would definitely get students to pay attention .
( I think the only reason this is n't done is because the people running institutions are more concerned with how long classes take and getting people through a course in a given time period , rather than how well they learn the material they 're supposed to know once they recieve their diploma .
Not to mention that there are some profs also teach only on the clock , and to them wrapping up a lesson is more important than how well students are doing .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Provided the sound is turned off and the keyboards aren't too clacky, there actually is a solution for not distracting others with your screen content.
3M (and perhaps others) sell these things called screen privacy filters.
[google.com] Why not make having one of those attached as a prerequisite for allowing any laptops into the lecture room?I think if professors were really worried about students only being a stenographer (which is actually easy enough to do even when writing, especially when the material is presented too fast), they would pause the lecture at key moments and do impromptu quizzing of a random selection of students or a short Q&amp;A before moving to the next section.
Doing that would definitely get students to pay attention.
(I think the only reason this isn't done is because the people running institutions are more concerned with how long classes take and getting people through a course in a given time period, rather than how well they learn the material they're supposed to know once they recieve their diploma.
Not to mention that there are some profs also teach only on the clock, and to them wrapping up a lesson is more important than how well students are doing.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425286</id>
	<title>What's next? Burkas?</title>
	<author>popo</author>
	<datestamp>1268232240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I speak for all the men here, when I say that there's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...</p><p>If the school is going to exercise severe administrative paternalism and attempt to remove all of life's distractions from the classroom,  will they be forcing female students to wear burkas next?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I speak for all the men here , when I say that there 's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...If the school is going to exercise severe administrative paternalism and attempt to remove all of life 's distractions from the classroom , will they be forcing female students to wear burkas next ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I speak for all the men here, when I say that there's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...If the school is going to exercise severe administrative paternalism and attempt to remove all of life's distractions from the classroom,  will they be forcing female students to wear burkas next?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425216</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>theIsovist</author>
	<datestamp>1268231940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Also, the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use.  I have many a drawing of monkeys attached to strings, in trees being shot by a hunter at X angle below.  it's a lesson in motion, partially elastic colisions and pendular motion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use .
I have many a drawing of monkeys attached to strings , in trees being shot by a hunter at X angle below .
it 's a lesson in motion , partially elastic colisions and pendular motion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use.
I have many a drawing of monkeys attached to strings, in trees being shot by a hunter at X angle below.
it's a lesson in motion, partially elastic colisions and pendular motion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31434912</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>net28573</author>
	<datestamp>1268247720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn, though, you've just made it my problem."

it depends on your definition of the phrase
"substantially distracting". if by that you mean someone playing a video on high volume without headphones, then i agree. but unless there is an auditory distraction I don't see a reason why it would be distracting because The people who really don't give a shit and are displaying on their screen anything thats distracting will normally be sitting in the back. i think this would dismiss your primate metaphor.

(please comment if you think im wrong i love feedback)</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn , though , you 've just made it my problem .
" it depends on your definition of the phrase " substantially distracting " .
if by that you mean someone playing a video on high volume without headphones , then i agree .
but unless there is an auditory distraction I do n't see a reason why it would be distracting because The people who really do n't give a shit and are displaying on their screen anything thats distracting will normally be sitting in the back .
i think this would dismiss your primate metaphor .
( please comment if you think im wrong i love feedback )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If you are going to be doing substantially distracting things in the same class where I am trying to learn, though, you've just made it my problem.
"

it depends on your definition of the phrase
"substantially distracting".
if by that you mean someone playing a video on high volume without headphones, then i agree.
but unless there is an auditory distraction I don't see a reason why it would be distracting because The people who really don't give a shit and are displaying on their screen anything thats distracting will normally be sitting in the back.
i think this would dismiss your primate metaphor.
(please comment if you think im wrong i love feedback)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425544</id>
	<title>Really? Really.</title>
	<author>TaggartAleslayer</author>
	<datestamp>1268233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People do realize they are paying for this, right? I mean. I pay you to teach me. I am not required to learn. In fact, I can fail entirely and have absolutely no return on my monetary investment.</p><p>I am going through my collegiate rounds as we speak. I hit it a dozen years into the workforce, but I am actually attending Virginia colleges, as it so happens. If my school bans laptops, only the laptop banned will own... wait a minute.</p><p>Actually, no, just screw them. Yeah. It's about professors not actually teaching well enough to pass the class. Professors in minor colleges are actually rated by how many people pass. Heard of a sliding, curved, or otherwise skewed grade?</p><p>The curve is so bent over now that it resembles a circle, and these professors are still not rating well. They are not teaching or adapting well either.</p><p>Let's just blame the laptop. Accuse the paying students and ignore the fact that the entire system is broken. Sounds good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People do realize they are paying for this , right ?
I mean .
I pay you to teach me .
I am not required to learn .
In fact , I can fail entirely and have absolutely no return on my monetary investment.I am going through my collegiate rounds as we speak .
I hit it a dozen years into the workforce , but I am actually attending Virginia colleges , as it so happens .
If my school bans laptops , only the laptop banned will own... wait a minute.Actually , no , just screw them .
Yeah. It 's about professors not actually teaching well enough to pass the class .
Professors in minor colleges are actually rated by how many people pass .
Heard of a sliding , curved , or otherwise skewed grade ? The curve is so bent over now that it resembles a circle , and these professors are still not rating well .
They are not teaching or adapting well either.Let 's just blame the laptop .
Accuse the paying students and ignore the fact that the entire system is broken .
Sounds good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People do realize they are paying for this, right?
I mean.
I pay you to teach me.
I am not required to learn.
In fact, I can fail entirely and have absolutely no return on my monetary investment.I am going through my collegiate rounds as we speak.
I hit it a dozen years into the workforce, but I am actually attending Virginia colleges, as it so happens.
If my school bans laptops, only the laptop banned will own... wait a minute.Actually, no, just screw them.
Yeah. It's about professors not actually teaching well enough to pass the class.
Professors in minor colleges are actually rated by how many people pass.
Heard of a sliding, curved, or otherwise skewed grade?The curve is so bent over now that it resembles a circle, and these professors are still not rating well.
They are not teaching or adapting well either.Let's just blame the laptop.
Accuse the paying students and ignore the fact that the entire system is broken.
Sounds good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>scross</author>
	<datestamp>1268230980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bet there's someone in a lecture reading this right now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet there 's someone in a lecture reading this right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet there's someone in a lecture reading this right now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429060</id>
	<title>Re:Professors need to stop reading just from the b</title>
	<author>skroops</author>
	<datestamp>1268250000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"4. People who are real good test takers that don't need to pay attention to what the Professor says."
<br>
Can you expand on this?  I don't pay need to pay attention to what the professor says and I do well on tests, but I always thought that was because I'm a self-motivated learner.  I've never taken a test where I did good on it because of anything other than knowing the material.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" 4 .
People who are real good test takers that do n't need to pay attention to what the Professor says .
" Can you expand on this ?
I do n't pay need to pay attention to what the professor says and I do well on tests , but I always thought that was because I 'm a self-motivated learner .
I 've never taken a test where I did good on it because of anything other than knowing the material .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"4.
People who are real good test takers that don't need to pay attention to what the Professor says.
"

Can you expand on this?
I don't pay need to pay attention to what the professor says and I do well on tests, but I always thought that was because I'm a self-motivated learner.
I've never taken a test where I did good on it because of anything other than knowing the material.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31430988</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268215740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a professor, and I agree with you 100\%. I consider lectures like a performance - I try to make it entertaining, but I also have to deliver the content. There are days when I know I really nail it, and other days when I'm just going through the motions. The class can make or break a good lecture.</p><p>Looking at students, making eye contact, is important. When I see someone who is so involved with their computer that they are completely disconnected from the class, it does distract me. If I get on their case about it, that takes away from class time. If I don't, they will continue to be a distraction. Either way, I'm not able to give the class my full attention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a professor , and I agree with you 100 \ % .
I consider lectures like a performance - I try to make it entertaining , but I also have to deliver the content .
There are days when I know I really nail it , and other days when I 'm just going through the motions .
The class can make or break a good lecture.Looking at students , making eye contact , is important .
When I see someone who is so involved with their computer that they are completely disconnected from the class , it does distract me .
If I get on their case about it , that takes away from class time .
If I do n't , they will continue to be a distraction .
Either way , I 'm not able to give the class my full attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a professor, and I agree with you 100\%.
I consider lectures like a performance - I try to make it entertaining, but I also have to deliver the content.
There are days when I know I really nail it, and other days when I'm just going through the motions.
The class can make or break a good lecture.Looking at students, making eye contact, is important.
When I see someone who is so involved with their computer that they are completely disconnected from the class, it does distract me.
If I get on their case about it, that takes away from class time.
If I don't, they will continue to be a distraction.
Either way, I'm not able to give the class my full attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426314</id>
	<title>Paper is just as bad!</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268237400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you write, you don&rsquo;t listen. If you listen, you don&rsquo;t write. Simple as that.</p><p>I HATED &ldquo;teachers&rdquo; who gave us the homework of just copying book pages by hand to &ldquo;learn&rdquo; them. I couldn&rsquo;t remember a word of what was written on them.</p><p>I specifically avoided taking any notes, as much as possible. And only wrote down formulas, or basic laws. (In a graph, like a mind map, but without the stupid limitations.)<br>If I didn&rsquo;t understand everything, I pressed pause, and went back a minute.</p><p>Oh, did I mention, that the lectures themselves were only half of where the learning took place, and watching it on video a second time at home filled in the blanks that made the whole lecture useful and stick in the first place?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you write , you don    t listen .
If you listen , you don    t write .
Simple as that.I HATED    teachers    who gave us the homework of just copying book pages by hand to    learn    them .
I couldn    t remember a word of what was written on them.I specifically avoided taking any notes , as much as possible .
And only wrote down formulas , or basic laws .
( In a graph , like a mind map , but without the stupid limitations .
) If I didn    t understand everything , I pressed pause , and went back a minute.Oh , did I mention , that the lectures themselves were only half of where the learning took place , and watching it on video a second time at home filled in the blanks that made the whole lecture useful and stick in the first place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you write, you don’t listen.
If you listen, you don’t write.
Simple as that.I HATED “teachers” who gave us the homework of just copying book pages by hand to “learn” them.
I couldn’t remember a word of what was written on them.I specifically avoided taking any notes, as much as possible.
And only wrote down formulas, or basic laws.
(In a graph, like a mind map, but without the stupid limitations.
)If I didn’t understand everything, I pressed pause, and went back a minute.Oh, did I mention, that the lectures themselves were only half of where the learning took place, and watching it on video a second time at home filled in the blanks that made the whole lecture useful and stick in the first place?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429810</id>
	<title>Re:Bring the noise</title>
	<author>Rich0</author>
	<datestamp>1268253540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, when I've been on flights listening to my mp3 player and then used the mp3 player the next day I've nearly blasted my eardrums out since the volume had been left REALLY LOUD.  It didn't seem so loud on the plane since the whole cabin was filled with the sound of air molecules bouncing off the fuselage.</p><p>If you can hear a typical laptop keyboard while in cruise then you have some REALLY interesting hearing...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , when I 've been on flights listening to my mp3 player and then used the mp3 player the next day I 've nearly blasted my eardrums out since the volume had been left REALLY LOUD .
It did n't seem so loud on the plane since the whole cabin was filled with the sound of air molecules bouncing off the fuselage.If you can hear a typical laptop keyboard while in cruise then you have some REALLY interesting hearing.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, when I've been on flights listening to my mp3 player and then used the mp3 player the next day I've nearly blasted my eardrums out since the volume had been left REALLY LOUD.
It didn't seem so loud on the plane since the whole cabin was filled with the sound of air molecules bouncing off the fuselage.If you can hear a typical laptop keyboard while in cruise then you have some REALLY interesting hearing...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428592</id>
	<title>Then and now</title>
	<author>spaceyhackerlady</author>
	<datestamp>1268247780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was a grad student (late '90s) laptops were big and clunky and expensive enough that they weren't effective classroom
tools, and nobody used them.

</p><p>I didn't go back to school for a career change, BTW. I went back to school because
I was bored with the work I was doing, and felt I had reached a career plateau that would make it difficult
to do anything really interesting without some more letters after my name.
I wanted a timeout from the rat race. I wanted to do something interesting.

</p><p>I'm taking a night school course now, ground school for my pilot's license (yes, it's interesting). The course setup is high-tech, with
all lectures being delivered with a laptop and overhead projector. We still use the whiteboards for diagrams and discussions,
and nobody uses a laptop for notes. How do you do navigation problems on a laptop? You get out your charts, your ruler,
your protractor and your E6-B.

</p><p>...laura</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was a grad student ( late '90s ) laptops were big and clunky and expensive enough that they were n't effective classroom tools , and nobody used them .
I did n't go back to school for a career change , BTW .
I went back to school because I was bored with the work I was doing , and felt I had reached a career plateau that would make it difficult to do anything really interesting without some more letters after my name .
I wanted a timeout from the rat race .
I wanted to do something interesting .
I 'm taking a night school course now , ground school for my pilot 's license ( yes , it 's interesting ) .
The course setup is high-tech , with all lectures being delivered with a laptop and overhead projector .
We still use the whiteboards for diagrams and discussions , and nobody uses a laptop for notes .
How do you do navigation problems on a laptop ?
You get out your charts , your ruler , your protractor and your E6-B .
...laura</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was a grad student (late '90s) laptops were big and clunky and expensive enough that they weren't effective classroom
tools, and nobody used them.
I didn't go back to school for a career change, BTW.
I went back to school because
I was bored with the work I was doing, and felt I had reached a career plateau that would make it difficult
to do anything really interesting without some more letters after my name.
I wanted a timeout from the rat race.
I wanted to do something interesting.
I'm taking a night school course now, ground school for my pilot's license (yes, it's interesting).
The course setup is high-tech, with
all lectures being delivered with a laptop and overhead projector.
We still use the whiteboards for diagrams and discussions,
and nobody uses a laptop for notes.
How do you do navigation problems on a laptop?
You get out your charts, your ruler,
your protractor and your E6-B.
...laura</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427464</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268242440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"And besides whose paying the tuition?"</p><p>Tuition is only part of how universities are funded.  If you're at a public university, the taxpayer is footing a big chunk, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" And besides whose paying the tuition ?
" Tuition is only part of how universities are funded .
If you 're at a public university , the taxpayer is footing a big chunk , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"And besides whose paying the tuition?
"Tuition is only part of how universities are funded.
If you're at a public university, the taxpayer is footing a big chunk, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425728</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268234460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We had a rule in one of my programming classes that if you brought a laptop, you had to sit in the back row to use it.</p><p>Which I think was a good idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We had a rule in one of my programming classes that if you brought a laptop , you had to sit in the back row to use it.Which I think was a good idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We had a rule in one of my programming classes that if you brought a laptop, you had to sit in the back row to use it.Which I think was a good idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31433200</id>
	<title>Last Time I Checked</title>
	<author>OrwellianLurker</author>
	<datestamp>1268228760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I pay to go to college. My GPA is close to 4.0. In my economics class, my professor follows rules established by fellow professors that dictate the banning of laptops in class. I can type faster than I can write, I can search for things related to our discussion, I can look up my professor's power points, etc. It's so stupid that I'm limited because they don't want us to "waste our time." The students that want to waste their time shouldn't be bothered. If they fail, that's their fault. Don't handicap me because some jackass can't pay attention. College is reminding me more and more of public school with this crap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I pay to go to college .
My GPA is close to 4.0 .
In my economics class , my professor follows rules established by fellow professors that dictate the banning of laptops in class .
I can type faster than I can write , I can search for things related to our discussion , I can look up my professor 's power points , etc .
It 's so stupid that I 'm limited because they do n't want us to " waste our time .
" The students that want to waste their time should n't be bothered .
If they fail , that 's their fault .
Do n't handicap me because some jackass ca n't pay attention .
College is reminding me more and more of public school with this crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I pay to go to college.
My GPA is close to 4.0.
In my economics class, my professor follows rules established by fellow professors that dictate the banning of laptops in class.
I can type faster than I can write, I can search for things related to our discussion, I can look up my professor's power points, etc.
It's so stupid that I'm limited because they don't want us to "waste our time.
" The students that want to waste their time shouldn't be bothered.
If they fail, that's their fault.
Don't handicap me because some jackass can't pay attention.
College is reminding me more and more of public school with this crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425806</id>
	<title>How about something like livescribe?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268234940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A pen that acts like a computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A pen that acts like a computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A pen that acts like a computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31462712</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268476380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>make the class seem like a hostile environment</i> </p><p>What a crock of PC horseshit. The "hostile environment", if any, comes from the slugs wearing pants and skirts in the classroom seats, who dare you to teach them anything.</p><p>You should be well beyond Sesame Street-style instruction well before you even get to high school, much less college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>make the class seem like a hostile environment What a crock of PC horseshit .
The " hostile environment " , if any , comes from the slugs wearing pants and skirts in the classroom seats , who dare you to teach them anything.You should be well beyond Sesame Street-style instruction well before you even get to high school , much less college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>make the class seem like a hostile environment What a crock of PC horseshit.
The "hostile environment", if any, comes from the slugs wearing pants and skirts in the classroom seats, who dare you to teach them anything.You should be well beyond Sesame Street-style instruction well before you even get to high school, much less college.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428942</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Pentium100</author>
	<datestamp>1268249400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.</p></div><p>I bought a portable reel to reel tape recorder for this purpose. It runs on its battery longer than my laptop (laptop; ~3h when new, 30min now; tape recorder: ~10h), I can use it without taking it out of my bag and the tapes are cheaper (per minute) than microcassette and hole 3-6 hours per side, meaning that i do not have to flip the tape in the middle of the lecture (what would be if I used a C-90 cassette).</p><p>On my paper notebook I write the start of the lecture (lecture, date, tape no., track no., tape counter) and then write the topics (what the lecturer was talking about).</p><p>All in all, this is much better than trying to write what the lecturer says because then i either write every second or every third word or write everything but cannot decipher it afterward.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder ( lots of students then used tape ) , but a notebook ban would n't bother me , I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.I bought a portable reel to reel tape recorder for this purpose .
It runs on its battery longer than my laptop ( laptop ; ~ 3h when new , 30min now ; tape recorder : ~ 10h ) , I can use it without taking it out of my bag and the tapes are cheaper ( per minute ) than microcassette and hole 3-6 hours per side , meaning that i do not have to flip the tape in the middle of the lecture ( what would be if I used a C-90 cassette ) .On my paper notebook I write the start of the lecture ( lecture , date , tape no. , track no. , tape counter ) and then write the topics ( what the lecturer was talking about ) .All in all , this is much better than trying to write what the lecturer says because then i either write every second or every third word or write everything but can not decipher it afterward .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.I bought a portable reel to reel tape recorder for this purpose.
It runs on its battery longer than my laptop (laptop; ~3h when new, 30min now; tape recorder: ~10h), I can use it without taking it out of my bag and the tapes are cheaper (per minute) than microcassette and hole 3-6 hours per side, meaning that i do not have to flip the tape in the middle of the lecture (what would be if I used a C-90 cassette).On my paper notebook I write the start of the lecture (lecture, date, tape no., track no., tape counter) and then write the topics (what the lecturer was talking about).All in all, this is much better than trying to write what the lecturer says because then i either write every second or every third word or write everything but cannot decipher it afterward.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425794</id>
	<title>In the UK...</title>
	<author>cr42yr1ch</author>
	<datestamp>1268234880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It was very rare for a student to be using a laptop in a lecture or class during my undergrad (at Cambridge in the UK, finished last year). The vast majority of students own a laptop, you would just not consider bringing it to your lectures!

As far as I know this is universal across the UK.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was very rare for a student to be using a laptop in a lecture or class during my undergrad ( at Cambridge in the UK , finished last year ) .
The vast majority of students own a laptop , you would just not consider bringing it to your lectures !
As far as I know this is universal across the UK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was very rare for a student to be using a laptop in a lecture or class during my undergrad (at Cambridge in the UK, finished last year).
The vast majority of students own a laptop, you would just not consider bringing it to your lectures!
As far as I know this is universal across the UK.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425292</id>
	<title>Jumping to solutions</title>
	<author>meburke</author>
	<datestamp>1268232240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds like another case of "jumping to solutions" and not identifying the actual problem. (You would think lecturers who were actually concerned about this problem would know better.)</p><p>What problem are they trying to solve? Is the use of a laptop necessary and sufficient to cause a student's wandering attention? Are pencils and paper better for some reason? (And, Hey!, there may be a neurological support for that reason.) Pencil and paper notes take a different type of organizing skill; does it make sense to dump students into a situation where they are required to learn a new skill along with the content? Is the lecture format the optimum way to be teaching?</p><p>I ask the last question because I've taken some programs such as "Money and You" <a href="http://www.excellerated.com/index.php/45" title="excellerated.com">http://www.excellerated.com/index.php/45</a> [excellerated.com], "Powerful Presentations" <a href="http://www.thepowerfulpresentations.com/index.php?option=com\_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=47&amp;Itemid=70" title="thepowerfu...ations.com">http://www.thepowerfulpresentations.com/index.php?option=com\_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=47&amp;Itemid=70</a> [thepowerfu...ations.com], and "The Accounting Game" <a href="http://www.theaccountinggame.com/" title="theaccountinggame.com">http://www.theaccountinggame.com/</a> [theaccountinggame.com] and 25 years later I can still reproduce the whole body of knowledge as if it was yesterday. (These programs were spun off from the Burklyn Business School. One of the best programs in the USA today may be the "Supercamp" program for teens. which teaches valuable study and life skills. <a href="http://www.supercamp.com/" title="supercamp.com">http://www.supercamp.com/</a> [supercamp.com] ) These are only programs I know about; what else may be available?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds like another case of " jumping to solutions " and not identifying the actual problem .
( You would think lecturers who were actually concerned about this problem would know better .
) What problem are they trying to solve ?
Is the use of a laptop necessary and sufficient to cause a student 's wandering attention ?
Are pencils and paper better for some reason ?
( And , Hey ! , there may be a neurological support for that reason .
) Pencil and paper notes take a different type of organizing skill ; does it make sense to dump students into a situation where they are required to learn a new skill along with the content ?
Is the lecture format the optimum way to be teaching ? I ask the last question because I 've taken some programs such as " Money and You " http : //www.excellerated.com/index.php/45 [ excellerated.com ] , " Powerful Presentations " http : //www.thepowerfulpresentations.com/index.php ? option = com \ _content&amp;task = view&amp;id = 47&amp;Itemid = 70 [ thepowerfu...ations.com ] , and " The Accounting Game " http : //www.theaccountinggame.com/ [ theaccountinggame.com ] and 25 years later I can still reproduce the whole body of knowledge as if it was yesterday .
( These programs were spun off from the Burklyn Business School .
One of the best programs in the USA today may be the " Supercamp " program for teens .
which teaches valuable study and life skills .
http : //www.supercamp.com/ [ supercamp.com ] ) These are only programs I know about ; what else may be available ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds like another case of "jumping to solutions" and not identifying the actual problem.
(You would think lecturers who were actually concerned about this problem would know better.
)What problem are they trying to solve?
Is the use of a laptop necessary and sufficient to cause a student's wandering attention?
Are pencils and paper better for some reason?
(And, Hey!, there may be a neurological support for that reason.
) Pencil and paper notes take a different type of organizing skill; does it make sense to dump students into a situation where they are required to learn a new skill along with the content?
Is the lecture format the optimum way to be teaching?I ask the last question because I've taken some programs such as "Money and You" http://www.excellerated.com/index.php/45 [excellerated.com], "Powerful Presentations" http://www.thepowerfulpresentations.com/index.php?option=com\_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=47&amp;Itemid=70 [thepowerfu...ations.com], and "The Accounting Game" http://www.theaccountinggame.com/ [theaccountinggame.com] and 25 years later I can still reproduce the whole body of knowledge as if it was yesterday.
(These programs were spun off from the Burklyn Business School.
One of the best programs in the USA today may be the "Supercamp" program for teens.
which teaches valuable study and life skills.
http://www.supercamp.com/ [supercamp.com] ) These are only programs I know about; what else may be available?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425300</id>
	<title>Hey you in the second row ...</title>
	<author>rlp</author>
	<datestamp>1268232240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, you with the red shirt.  Stop reading slashdot and pay attention to the lecture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , you with the red shirt .
Stop reading slashdot and pay attention to the lecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, you with the red shirt.
Stop reading slashdot and pay attention to the lecture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427488</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268242560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup, hi =]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , hi = ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, hi =]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425872</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Vanderhoth</author>
	<datestamp>1268235360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.</p></div><p>I think I heard that same argument in a discussion about people being able to drive and text at the same time. Sure they may get away with it indefinitely, but they're still likely to be in or cause a crash.</p><p>Same thing here. you might get away with playing Facebook games indefinitely, but you're more likely to or cause someone else to miss an import point</p><p>Back in my university days, not so long ago, this was a huge issue for me; I never brought my laptop to class. I found it very distracting when I was sitting behind someone playing WoW and had a very hard time focusing on what was going on. So I started getting to classes earlier so I could sit in the front row. It made seeing the overhead screens harder, but I was able to pay better attention. I feel vindicated because the people who thought they could multitask were always coming to me for notes and/or help, which I decided when and to whom I gave it to.</p><p>Score: Computer Science Degree for me, MacDonald's for multitaskers</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.I think I heard that same argument in a discussion about people being able to drive and text at the same time .
Sure they may get away with it indefinitely , but they 're still likely to be in or cause a crash.Same thing here .
you might get away with playing Facebook games indefinitely , but you 're more likely to or cause someone else to miss an import pointBack in my university days , not so long ago , this was a huge issue for me ; I never brought my laptop to class .
I found it very distracting when I was sitting behind someone playing WoW and had a very hard time focusing on what was going on .
So I started getting to classes earlier so I could sit in the front row .
It made seeing the overhead screens harder , but I was able to pay better attention .
I feel vindicated because the people who thought they could multitask were always coming to me for notes and/or help , which I decided when and to whom I gave it to.Score : Computer Science Degree for me , MacDonald 's for multitaskers</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.I think I heard that same argument in a discussion about people being able to drive and text at the same time.
Sure they may get away with it indefinitely, but they're still likely to be in or cause a crash.Same thing here.
you might get away with playing Facebook games indefinitely, but you're more likely to or cause someone else to miss an import pointBack in my university days, not so long ago, this was a huge issue for me; I never brought my laptop to class.
I found it very distracting when I was sitting behind someone playing WoW and had a very hard time focusing on what was going on.
So I started getting to classes earlier so I could sit in the front row.
It made seeing the overhead screens harder, but I was able to pay better attention.
I feel vindicated because the people who thought they could multitask were always coming to me for notes and/or help, which I decided when and to whom I gave it to.Score: Computer Science Degree for me, MacDonald's for multitaskers
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425460</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>kainewynd2</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on. On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.</p></div><p>[disclaimer]: <i>I am one of those Liberal Arts and Sciences IT people Slashdot is so thrilled to ridicule.  Be prepared for a different angle!</i>[/disclaimer]</p><p>I wasn't in college all that long ago (HOLY SHIT IT'S BEEN 10 YEARS!), but during that time the initial laptop-boom was kicking off and building-wide wireless was becoming a reality.  I was a fool who had a desktop in my room sitting on an actual desk where I sat and wrote things.  With my fingers.  At a desk.  Typing.  With headphones.</p><p>Now there were other people--hereafter referred to as Tools--who brought their laptops to class.  These Tools would pop open their machines and make the pretense of typing away at some notes, but invariably they would forget to mute the audio during their first class and you'd hear the tell-tale AIM message received sound.</p><p>It was determined pretty quickly that laptops were not allowed out during a lecture or discussion class and I was happy for it.  It is incredibly distracting when you're actively involved in a discussion or listening to a lecture that is mind-numbingly boring and there is the possibility that the person sitting next to you is not only ignoring the lesson, but having so much more fun than you.  It sucks.</p><p>Given that I was in charge of all first and second tier IT at the university during that time--those levels of IT were, and still are, entirely student managed and operated--I banned laptops from training sessions and, unless running a graveyard shift at the Helpdesk, from the Helpdesk as well.  Not only did comprehension go up--yes, even amongst the Computer Science majors--but customer service levels went to all-time highs and there was no more accidental cross contamination off virused machines because someone stupidly plugged their laptop into our segregated "Virus" VLAN.</p><p>So... I'm all for it, having seen the effects on fifty people myself.  Kick the laptops out of the classroom... but don't expect to teach CAD or anything similar in that scenario unless you're in a lab.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The way I see it , unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \ _other \ _ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on .
On the other hand , if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise ( intended or not ) and it is distracting the professor or other students , then I see a problem .
[ disclaimer ] : I am one of those Liberal Arts and Sciences IT people Slashdot is so thrilled to ridicule .
Be prepared for a different angle !
[ /disclaimer ] I was n't in college all that long ago ( HOLY SHIT IT 'S BEEN 10 YEARS !
) , but during that time the initial laptop-boom was kicking off and building-wide wireless was becoming a reality .
I was a fool who had a desktop in my room sitting on an actual desk where I sat and wrote things .
With my fingers .
At a desk .
Typing. With headphones.Now there were other people--hereafter referred to as Tools--who brought their laptops to class .
These Tools would pop open their machines and make the pretense of typing away at some notes , but invariably they would forget to mute the audio during their first class and you 'd hear the tell-tale AIM message received sound.It was determined pretty quickly that laptops were not allowed out during a lecture or discussion class and I was happy for it .
It is incredibly distracting when you 're actively involved in a discussion or listening to a lecture that is mind-numbingly boring and there is the possibility that the person sitting next to you is not only ignoring the lesson , but having so much more fun than you .
It sucks.Given that I was in charge of all first and second tier IT at the university during that time--those levels of IT were , and still are , entirely student managed and operated--I banned laptops from training sessions and , unless running a graveyard shift at the Helpdesk , from the Helpdesk as well .
Not only did comprehension go up--yes , even amongst the Computer Science majors--but customer service levels went to all-time highs and there was no more accidental cross contamination off virused machines because someone stupidly plugged their laptop into our segregated " Virus " VLAN.So... I 'm all for it , having seen the effects on fifty people myself .
Kick the laptops out of the classroom... but do n't expect to teach CAD or anything similar in that scenario unless you 're in a lab .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on.
On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.
[disclaimer]: I am one of those Liberal Arts and Sciences IT people Slashdot is so thrilled to ridicule.
Be prepared for a different angle!
[/disclaimer]I wasn't in college all that long ago (HOLY SHIT IT'S BEEN 10 YEARS!
), but during that time the initial laptop-boom was kicking off and building-wide wireless was becoming a reality.
I was a fool who had a desktop in my room sitting on an actual desk where I sat and wrote things.
With my fingers.
At a desk.
Typing.  With headphones.Now there were other people--hereafter referred to as Tools--who brought their laptops to class.
These Tools would pop open their machines and make the pretense of typing away at some notes, but invariably they would forget to mute the audio during their first class and you'd hear the tell-tale AIM message received sound.It was determined pretty quickly that laptops were not allowed out during a lecture or discussion class and I was happy for it.
It is incredibly distracting when you're actively involved in a discussion or listening to a lecture that is mind-numbingly boring and there is the possibility that the person sitting next to you is not only ignoring the lesson, but having so much more fun than you.
It sucks.Given that I was in charge of all first and second tier IT at the university during that time--those levels of IT were, and still are, entirely student managed and operated--I banned laptops from training sessions and, unless running a graveyard shift at the Helpdesk, from the Helpdesk as well.
Not only did comprehension go up--yes, even amongst the Computer Science majors--but customer service levels went to all-time highs and there was no more accidental cross contamination off virused machines because someone stupidly plugged their laptop into our segregated "Virus" VLAN.So... I'm all for it, having seen the effects on fifty people myself.
Kick the laptops out of the classroom... but don't expect to teach CAD or anything similar in that scenario unless you're in a lab.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell, when I was in college you could SMOKE in class, and they never banned slide rules. I never took notes myself; I can't scribble as fast as the professor can talk, can't read my own scribbling later, and taking notes took my attention away from what the teacher was saying.</p><p>If there were diagrams on the blackboard, I'd scribble those down after class, unless they were replicated in the textbook, and if the teacher said "write this down" then I'd write it down.</p><p>The instructor's role is to better explain what's in the textbook, and discuss things that weren't in the book. If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.</p><p>Do professors still party with their students at after school functions? In a lot of ways you guys have it better than I did, but in a lot of other was we had it better. College was some of the best times of my life. Especially the Mississippi River Festival. Maybe I'll journal about that, it was awesome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , when I was in college you could SMOKE in class , and they never banned slide rules .
I never took notes myself ; I ca n't scribble as fast as the professor can talk , ca n't read my own scribbling later , and taking notes took my attention away from what the teacher was saying.If there were diagrams on the blackboard , I 'd scribble those down after class , unless they were replicated in the textbook , and if the teacher said " write this down " then I 'd write it down.The instructor 's role is to better explain what 's in the textbook , and discuss things that were n't in the book .
If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder ( lots of students then used tape ) , but a notebook ban would n't bother me , I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.Do professors still party with their students at after school functions ?
In a lot of ways you guys have it better than I did , but in a lot of other was we had it better .
College was some of the best times of my life .
Especially the Mississippi River Festival .
Maybe I 'll journal about that , it was awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, when I was in college you could SMOKE in class, and they never banned slide rules.
I never took notes myself; I can't scribble as fast as the professor can talk, can't read my own scribbling later, and taking notes took my attention away from what the teacher was saying.If there were diagrams on the blackboard, I'd scribble those down after class, unless they were replicated in the textbook, and if the teacher said "write this down" then I'd write it down.The instructor's role is to better explain what's in the textbook, and discuss things that weren't in the book.
If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.Do professors still party with their students at after school functions?
In a lot of ways you guys have it better than I did, but in a lot of other was we had it better.
College was some of the best times of my life.
Especially the Mississippi River Festival.
Maybe I'll journal about that, it was awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425632</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Bazman</author>
	<datestamp>1268233860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're doing none of that. They are paying to get a degree. Some don't even seem to understand that paying their fees isn't sufficient to get a degree, and that they have to do work as well. Really.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're doing none of that .
They are paying to get a degree .
Some do n't even seem to understand that paying their fees is n't sufficient to get a degree , and that they have to do work as well .
Really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're doing none of that.
They are paying to get a degree.
Some don't even seem to understand that paying their fees isn't sufficient to get a degree, and that they have to do work as well.
Really.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425498</id>
	<title>Professors need to stop reading just from the book</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professors need to stop reading just from the book and make the Lectures more then just show to get part of the grade. I see students playing games as a few things.</p><p>1. Just killing time as they know the Professor is just a read from a book guy.</p><p>2. Need to be there for grade but the Professor talks about stuff that is not even on the test.</p><p>3. Filler class that they just take but is not part of over all school plan</p><p>4. People who are real good test takers that don't need to pay attention to what the Professor says.</p><p>5. People who cheat on tests to get by.</p><p>6. People who just get by on passing grades.</p><p>7. People on sports teams who can't fail a class (aka there on the sports team so Professor you better pass them or we will pass you out)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professors need to stop reading just from the book and make the Lectures more then just show to get part of the grade .
I see students playing games as a few things.1 .
Just killing time as they know the Professor is just a read from a book guy.2 .
Need to be there for grade but the Professor talks about stuff that is not even on the test.3 .
Filler class that they just take but is not part of over all school plan4 .
People who are real good test takers that do n't need to pay attention to what the Professor says.5 .
People who cheat on tests to get by.6 .
People who just get by on passing grades.7 .
People on sports teams who ca n't fail a class ( aka there on the sports team so Professor you better pass them or we will pass you out )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professors need to stop reading just from the book and make the Lectures more then just show to get part of the grade.
I see students playing games as a few things.1.
Just killing time as they know the Professor is just a read from a book guy.2.
Need to be there for grade but the Professor talks about stuff that is not even on the test.3.
Filler class that they just take but is not part of over all school plan4.
People who are real good test takers that don't need to pay attention to what the Professor says.5.
People who cheat on tests to get by.6.
People who just get by on passing grades.7.
People on sports teams who can't fail a class (aka there on the sports team so Professor you better pass them or we will pass you out)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425392</id>
	<title>Pen and paper?</title>
	<author>jbernardo</author>
	<datestamp>1268232720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't write with pen or pencil at a decent speed, if I want to be able to read it afterwards. My handwriting is awful, always was, and no matter how much I tried to improve it always remained awful and slow. On the other hand, I am a decent, fast typist. That is why I bring my notebook to all meetings, or to any course I attend (did you think you'd stop studying after leaving college?). I can imagine what would be if I was suddenly forced to use a inferior solution just because someone abused the efficient one.
</p><p>
In which century are these teachers living, btw?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't write with pen or pencil at a decent speed , if I want to be able to read it afterwards .
My handwriting is awful , always was , and no matter how much I tried to improve it always remained awful and slow .
On the other hand , I am a decent , fast typist .
That is why I bring my notebook to all meetings , or to any course I attend ( did you think you 'd stop studying after leaving college ? ) .
I can imagine what would be if I was suddenly forced to use a inferior solution just because someone abused the efficient one .
In which century are these teachers living , btw ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't write with pen or pencil at a decent speed, if I want to be able to read it afterwards.
My handwriting is awful, always was, and no matter how much I tried to improve it always remained awful and slow.
On the other hand, I am a decent, fast typist.
That is why I bring my notebook to all meetings, or to any course I attend (did you think you'd stop studying after leaving college?).
I can imagine what would be if I was suddenly forced to use a inferior solution just because someone abused the efficient one.
In which century are these teachers living, btw?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428906</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268249280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Easier said then done.  A professor is a professor not an entertainer or a two hour motivational speaker.  You have to cover specific material when you teach and the reality of it is, some of it is not entertaining.  Even if/when professors have gone out of their way to attempt to entertain students, I have seen students playing games or facebooking - if its between listening to some stranger speak about some foreign concepts or interacting with our social network on things the student is familiar with then there is little competition.  I have noticed that performance of students does suffer when they are playing games in class - its not unexpected as it happens in grade school, high school, etc.  we can argue that they are losing out, but good professors that try hard to teach their students also suffer as other students are distracted and they have difficulty realizing why students aren't performing well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Easier said then done .
A professor is a professor not an entertainer or a two hour motivational speaker .
You have to cover specific material when you teach and the reality of it is , some of it is not entertaining .
Even if/when professors have gone out of their way to attempt to entertain students , I have seen students playing games or facebooking - if its between listening to some stranger speak about some foreign concepts or interacting with our social network on things the student is familiar with then there is little competition .
I have noticed that performance of students does suffer when they are playing games in class - its not unexpected as it happens in grade school , high school , etc .
we can argue that they are losing out , but good professors that try hard to teach their students also suffer as other students are distracted and they have difficulty realizing why students are n't performing well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Easier said then done.
A professor is a professor not an entertainer or a two hour motivational speaker.
You have to cover specific material when you teach and the reality of it is, some of it is not entertaining.
Even if/when professors have gone out of their way to attempt to entertain students, I have seen students playing games or facebooking - if its between listening to some stranger speak about some foreign concepts or interacting with our social network on things the student is familiar with then there is little competition.
I have noticed that performance of students does suffer when they are playing games in class - its not unexpected as it happens in grade school, high school, etc.
we can argue that they are losing out, but good professors that try hard to teach their students also suffer as other students are distracted and they have difficulty realizing why students aren't performing well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</id>
	<title>None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268231520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I ran into this issue at my school and had a few professors get frustrated by students with laptops. However we talked about it in class and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves. And besides whose paying the tuition? This would be one thing if this was High school but not college.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ran into this issue at my school and had a few professors get frustrated by students with laptops .
However we talked about it in class and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves .
And besides whose paying the tuition ?
This would be one thing if this was High school but not college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I ran into this issue at my school and had a few professors get frustrated by students with laptops.
However we talked about it in class and came to the determination that the people who are using laptops to screw around are only hurting them selves.
And besides whose paying the tuition?
This would be one thing if this was High school but not college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425656</id>
	<title>Re:What's next? Burkas?</title>
	<author>Curmudgeonlyoldbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1268233980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or horse blinkers / blinders...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or horse blinkers / blinders.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or horse blinkers / blinders...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426542</id>
	<title>A better way to handle it</title>
	<author>sulfur</author>
	<datestamp>1268238300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of my professors had a better way to handle this issue - he required all laptop-users to sit in the back of the classroom. This would still allow students to use laptops in class if they want. However, it would move them sufficiently far away so that other students are not distracted by the clickety-clacking and seeing laptop-users playing games or surfing the web (the same distracting effect as if someone in front of you in a movie theater uses a cell phone).
</p><p>I firmly believe that pen and paper is still a much better way to take notes and learn in class, but I wouldn't prevent students from using laptops as supposedly they pay the same tuition as everyone else. Even if some students doesn't actively listen to the lecture, it is their choice and it's not an excuse to ban them from attending lectures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of my professors had a better way to handle this issue - he required all laptop-users to sit in the back of the classroom .
This would still allow students to use laptops in class if they want .
However , it would move them sufficiently far away so that other students are not distracted by the clickety-clacking and seeing laptop-users playing games or surfing the web ( the same distracting effect as if someone in front of you in a movie theater uses a cell phone ) .
I firmly believe that pen and paper is still a much better way to take notes and learn in class , but I would n't prevent students from using laptops as supposedly they pay the same tuition as everyone else .
Even if some students does n't actively listen to the lecture , it is their choice and it 's not an excuse to ban them from attending lectures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of my professors had a better way to handle this issue - he required all laptop-users to sit in the back of the classroom.
This would still allow students to use laptops in class if they want.
However, it would move them sufficiently far away so that other students are not distracted by the clickety-clacking and seeing laptop-users playing games or surfing the web (the same distracting effect as if someone in front of you in a movie theater uses a cell phone).
I firmly believe that pen and paper is still a much better way to take notes and learn in class, but I wouldn't prevent students from using laptops as supposedly they pay the same tuition as everyone else.
Even if some students doesn't actively listen to the lecture, it is their choice and it's not an excuse to ban them from attending lectures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426690</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should be no lectures in a mathematics/comp-sci class.  It sounds useless to me...I had lectures/labs with a circuits class...I went to the lecture twice until I obtained copies of notes from a friend who attended the class a couple of years earlier...They were exactly the same.  I couldn't understand why we were paying this lecturer?  Why didn't they just publish his notes and sell that instead?  It would have saved a lot of people time in school.  He would actually show up 10 minutes early and begin writing the notes so I could never keep up and still have my notes legible.  Not having a discussion section for the class was absurd.  There was no book for the class.  I wish more students would explain his/her classroom experiences with his/her parents/school administration.  I'm not sure how everyone else fared in school, but my experience left me feeling cheated out of a bunch of money.  I received a degree which got me a job (no help from the school on this) but I feel a lot of it was done by myself.  What I did pay for was a joke for the most part...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no lectures in a mathematics/comp-sci class .
It sounds useless to me...I had lectures/labs with a circuits class...I went to the lecture twice until I obtained copies of notes from a friend who attended the class a couple of years earlier...They were exactly the same .
I could n't understand why we were paying this lecturer ?
Why did n't they just publish his notes and sell that instead ?
It would have saved a lot of people time in school .
He would actually show up 10 minutes early and begin writing the notes so I could never keep up and still have my notes legible .
Not having a discussion section for the class was absurd .
There was no book for the class .
I wish more students would explain his/her classroom experiences with his/her parents/school administration .
I 'm not sure how everyone else fared in school , but my experience left me feeling cheated out of a bunch of money .
I received a degree which got me a job ( no help from the school on this ) but I feel a lot of it was done by myself .
What I did pay for was a joke for the most part.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no lectures in a mathematics/comp-sci class.
It sounds useless to me...I had lectures/labs with a circuits class...I went to the lecture twice until I obtained copies of notes from a friend who attended the class a couple of years earlier...They were exactly the same.
I couldn't understand why we were paying this lecturer?
Why didn't they just publish his notes and sell that instead?
It would have saved a lot of people time in school.
He would actually show up 10 minutes early and begin writing the notes so I could never keep up and still have my notes legible.
Not having a discussion section for the class was absurd.
There was no book for the class.
I wish more students would explain his/her classroom experiences with his/her parents/school administration.
I'm not sure how everyone else fared in school, but my experience left me feeling cheated out of a bunch of money.
I received a degree which got me a job (no help from the school on this) but I feel a lot of it was done by myself.
What I did pay for was a joke for the most part...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426342</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268237460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod parent up.  Unless you are a large group of students in a large lecture hall, the class room environment works best when there is interaction between the professor and students.  The professor tailors his or her lecture based on questions and feedback from the students during class, since groups of students vary in which topics they find easy or difficult.</p><p>The classroom experience works best when it's thought of as an active interaction between the teacher and the learner, rather than a passive interaction like watching TV.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up .
Unless you are a large group of students in a large lecture hall , the class room environment works best when there is interaction between the professor and students .
The professor tailors his or her lecture based on questions and feedback from the students during class , since groups of students vary in which topics they find easy or difficult.The classroom experience works best when it 's thought of as an active interaction between the teacher and the learner , rather than a passive interaction like watching TV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up.
Unless you are a large group of students in a large lecture hall, the class room environment works best when there is interaction between the professor and students.
The professor tailors his or her lecture based on questions and feedback from the students during class, since groups of students vary in which topics they find easy or difficult.The classroom experience works best when it's thought of as an active interaction between the teacher and the learner, rather than a passive interaction like watching TV.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427730</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>supercrisp</author>
	<datestamp>1268243520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use my cellphone to snap pix of the whiteboard or chalkboard after class so that students don't have to remember lists and diagrams. I also try to get classes (on some days, when it's appropriate) to help generate those lists and diagrams. So I'd much rather the attention be on creating and thinking rather than the note-taking. I try to do as much of that as I can for them, but of course that means some folks just zone out, thinking that my measly "screengrabs" will somehow take the place of applying brain to problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use my cellphone to snap pix of the whiteboard or chalkboard after class so that students do n't have to remember lists and diagrams .
I also try to get classes ( on some days , when it 's appropriate ) to help generate those lists and diagrams .
So I 'd much rather the attention be on creating and thinking rather than the note-taking .
I try to do as much of that as I can for them , but of course that means some folks just zone out , thinking that my measly " screengrabs " will somehow take the place of applying brain to problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use my cellphone to snap pix of the whiteboard or chalkboard after class so that students don't have to remember lists and diagrams.
I also try to get classes (on some days, when it's appropriate) to help generate those lists and diagrams.
So I'd much rather the attention be on creating and thinking rather than the note-taking.
I try to do as much of that as I can for them, but of course that means some folks just zone out, thinking that my measly "screengrabs" will somehow take the place of applying brain to problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425176</id>
	<title>New hardware opportunity?</title>
	<author>Errol backfiring</author>
	<datestamp>1268231700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe the manufacturers should add an extra digitizer to the notebooks for doodling or just add this feature to a bigger touchpad. Off course, a doodle application and a touchscreen would do the trick as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe the manufacturers should add an extra digitizer to the notebooks for doodling or just add this feature to a bigger touchpad .
Off course , a doodle application and a touchscreen would do the trick as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe the manufacturers should add an extra digitizer to the notebooks for doodling or just add this feature to a bigger touchpad.
Off course, a doodle application and a touchscreen would do the trick as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</id>
	<title>Wait....</title>
	<author>DavidR1991</author>
	<datestamp>1268230920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's. That's why it's a <b>lecture</b> and not a 'class'. The lecturer doesn't (or shouldn't) take personal interest in how you understand, they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord. If you just type everything up and learn later on, that's your business. </p><p>I have this issue with some mathematics of comp-sci classes at the moment. I'm OK at maths, but I find I can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time. So I do something kind of similar to the "mindless stenography" - in the lecture at least. What I do outside of the lecture is what counts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How someone learns is their own business , not the lecturer 's .
That 's why it 's a lecture and not a 'class' .
The lecturer does n't ( or should n't ) take personal interest in how you understand , they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord .
If you just type everything up and learn later on , that 's your business .
I have this issue with some mathematics of comp-sci classes at the moment .
I 'm OK at maths , but I find I ca n't really use what I 've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I 've tried out [ whatever technique/method we 're learning ] on my own in my own time .
So I do something kind of similar to the " mindless stenography " - in the lecture at least .
What I do outside of the lecture is what counts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How someone learns is their own business, not the lecturer's.
That's why it's a lecture and not a 'class'.
The lecturer doesn't (or shouldn't) take personal interest in how you understand, they expect you to absorb and understand of your own accord.
If you just type everything up and learn later on, that's your business.
I have this issue with some mathematics of comp-sci classes at the moment.
I'm OK at maths, but I find I can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time.
So I do something kind of similar to the "mindless stenography" - in the lecture at least.
What I do outside of the lecture is what counts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425666</id>
	<title>Dull lectures</title>
	<author>Scutter</author>
	<datestamp>1268234040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, if your students aren't paying attention in the class, maybe the problem is your inability to engage them in an interesting lecture.  In other words, maybe YOU'RE the problem.  Maybe you need to get down out of your ivory tower and learn how to teach.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , if your students are n't paying attention in the class , maybe the problem is your inability to engage them in an interesting lecture .
In other words , maybe YOU 'RE the problem .
Maybe you need to get down out of your ivory tower and learn how to teach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, if your students aren't paying attention in the class, maybe the problem is your inability to engage them in an interesting lecture.
In other words, maybe YOU'RE the problem.
Maybe you need to get down out of your ivory tower and learn how to teach.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427900</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>Vanderhoth</author>
	<datestamp>1268244360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN. They are <b>boring</b> as hell, but incredibly useful. That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.</p></div><p>Wow, did you pick the wrong area of education. Sure sometimes you have to do stuff you don't like, but there is almost always a way to make things more interesting.</p><p>As an example in my first year of CS I didn't really find linear algebra, discrete mathematics, algorithms or calculus as intense as playing WoW, but I was able to make it interesting by learning how to apply what I was learning to a homemade graphics engine... Okay, discrete mathematics wasn't fun, but it is useful.</p><p>Maybe I'm an oddity, but my interest extend outside CS so when I was given chances to take courses like Accounting, Management, Chemistry, Philosophy, Political Science, etc... I was ecstatic.</p><p>High school is boring, you're forced to take the same generic classes as everyone else that may or may not apply to your interest or hopeful profession. University is where you get to make your own choices, you choose what to be educated in and you choose the electives that can be outside your choosen field that interest you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When it comes down to it , this is n't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN .
They are boring as hell , but incredibly useful .
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Wow , did you pick the wrong area of education .
Sure sometimes you have to do stuff you do n't like , but there is almost always a way to make things more interesting.As an example in my first year of CS I did n't really find linear algebra , discrete mathematics , algorithms or calculus as intense as playing WoW , but I was able to make it interesting by learning how to apply what I was learning to a homemade graphics engine... Okay , discrete mathematics was n't fun , but it is useful.Maybe I 'm an oddity , but my interest extend outside CS so when I was given chances to take courses like Accounting , Management , Chemistry , Philosophy , Political Science , etc... I was ecstatic.High school is boring , you 're forced to take the same generic classes as everyone else that may or may not apply to your interest or hopeful profession .
University is where you get to make your own choices , you choose what to be educated in and you choose the electives that can be outside your choosen field that interest you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN.
They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful.
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Wow, did you pick the wrong area of education.
Sure sometimes you have to do stuff you don't like, but there is almost always a way to make things more interesting.As an example in my first year of CS I didn't really find linear algebra, discrete mathematics, algorithms or calculus as intense as playing WoW, but I was able to make it interesting by learning how to apply what I was learning to a homemade graphics engine... Okay, discrete mathematics wasn't fun, but it is useful.Maybe I'm an oddity, but my interest extend outside CS so when I was given chances to take courses like Accounting, Management, Chemistry, Philosophy, Political Science, etc... I was ecstatic.High school is boring, you're forced to take the same generic classes as everyone else that may or may not apply to your interest or hopeful profession.
University is where you get to make your own choices, you choose what to be educated in and you choose the electives that can be outside your choosen field that interest you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427060</id>
	<title>Re:Not your dime...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given the amount of subsidies pushed into higher education, especially for public universities, it's likely that the TA does have a financial stake in the students not goofing off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given the amount of subsidies pushed into higher education , especially for public universities , it 's likely that the TA does have a financial stake in the students not goofing off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given the amount of subsidies pushed into higher education, especially for public universities, it's likely that the TA does have a financial stake in the students not goofing off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31432118</id>
	<title>More than one side to the argument</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268221140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At my very first lecture at the university my lecturer (he wasn't a professor) said to the class: "The traditional lecture with notetaking is the worlds most inefficient Xerox machine". In that class we were 250+ students. Of course he had a point. It is stupid that 250 people write down exactly what he has written on a blackboard or a slide.</p><p>We were instead given/sold printouts of all the slides in the course, and notetaking was just that, notes in the margin to clarify the slide for you. Most of the time, I didn't need to make any notes. On the second year I started as an teaching assistant in that class and it was a pleasure to teach. This was the pre-laptop era and the students were really involved in the discussions and problem solving.</p><p>I would find it hard to teach if the student paid more attention to their laptop than to the teacher or the class. Notetaking is one thing but during my university years I found that I personally learned most when i listened to the lecturer, asked questions and tried to be an active part of the class. Writing too extensive notes or doing something else prevents me from that.</p><p>The argument that several posters have reiterated, "they only hurt themselves" is not true in my eyes. As a teacher I find that teaching 10 people is different from teaching 100. So if you have a full hall with hundreds of students I would hold the lecture in one way. But if only 10 or 20\% are actually "there" I would hold it in a slightly different manner.</p><p>The bottom line is: if you don't want to be there, don't! No one is forcing you (well most of the time at least, counting attendance is stupid IMHO). If you want to study the course at your own pace in private, do so. Leave the lectures to those that WANT to be there and learn, not only from the professor/lecturer, but also the fellow students that are actively being a part of that very lecture.</p><p>If you want to play with your computer, do it somewhere else. I can think of hundreds of places I would rather be, fooling around with my computer, than in a lecture hall during class.</p><p>Those of you that take extensive notes on the laptop and can refrain from using the computer for other purposes during class, continue if that works for you. As long as you don't disturb the other students. But I would urge you to try to take less notes and think more of what you are writing down. Using a pencil will, for most people, do so as you usually cannot write as quick as with a keyboard and must therefore selectively choose what to write down, sorting the information on the way.</p><p>Also, written notes sometimes must be re-written "cleanly", that repetition is a good way of learning.</p><p>There is more than one way to do it, but too many put too much faith in the laptops today (and others are to weakminded to resist their other uses).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At my very first lecture at the university my lecturer ( he was n't a professor ) said to the class : " The traditional lecture with notetaking is the worlds most inefficient Xerox machine " .
In that class we were 250 + students .
Of course he had a point .
It is stupid that 250 people write down exactly what he has written on a blackboard or a slide.We were instead given/sold printouts of all the slides in the course , and notetaking was just that , notes in the margin to clarify the slide for you .
Most of the time , I did n't need to make any notes .
On the second year I started as an teaching assistant in that class and it was a pleasure to teach .
This was the pre-laptop era and the students were really involved in the discussions and problem solving.I would find it hard to teach if the student paid more attention to their laptop than to the teacher or the class .
Notetaking is one thing but during my university years I found that I personally learned most when i listened to the lecturer , asked questions and tried to be an active part of the class .
Writing too extensive notes or doing something else prevents me from that.The argument that several posters have reiterated , " they only hurt themselves " is not true in my eyes .
As a teacher I find that teaching 10 people is different from teaching 100 .
So if you have a full hall with hundreds of students I would hold the lecture in one way .
But if only 10 or 20 \ % are actually " there " I would hold it in a slightly different manner.The bottom line is : if you do n't want to be there , do n't !
No one is forcing you ( well most of the time at least , counting attendance is stupid IMHO ) .
If you want to study the course at your own pace in private , do so .
Leave the lectures to those that WANT to be there and learn , not only from the professor/lecturer , but also the fellow students that are actively being a part of that very lecture.If you want to play with your computer , do it somewhere else .
I can think of hundreds of places I would rather be , fooling around with my computer , than in a lecture hall during class.Those of you that take extensive notes on the laptop and can refrain from using the computer for other purposes during class , continue if that works for you .
As long as you do n't disturb the other students .
But I would urge you to try to take less notes and think more of what you are writing down .
Using a pencil will , for most people , do so as you usually can not write as quick as with a keyboard and must therefore selectively choose what to write down , sorting the information on the way.Also , written notes sometimes must be re-written " cleanly " , that repetition is a good way of learning.There is more than one way to do it , but too many put too much faith in the laptops today ( and others are to weakminded to resist their other uses ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my very first lecture at the university my lecturer (he wasn't a professor) said to the class: "The traditional lecture with notetaking is the worlds most inefficient Xerox machine".
In that class we were 250+ students.
Of course he had a point.
It is stupid that 250 people write down exactly what he has written on a blackboard or a slide.We were instead given/sold printouts of all the slides in the course, and notetaking was just that, notes in the margin to clarify the slide for you.
Most of the time, I didn't need to make any notes.
On the second year I started as an teaching assistant in that class and it was a pleasure to teach.
This was the pre-laptop era and the students were really involved in the discussions and problem solving.I would find it hard to teach if the student paid more attention to their laptop than to the teacher or the class.
Notetaking is one thing but during my university years I found that I personally learned most when i listened to the lecturer, asked questions and tried to be an active part of the class.
Writing too extensive notes or doing something else prevents me from that.The argument that several posters have reiterated, "they only hurt themselves" is not true in my eyes.
As a teacher I find that teaching 10 people is different from teaching 100.
So if you have a full hall with hundreds of students I would hold the lecture in one way.
But if only 10 or 20\% are actually "there" I would hold it in a slightly different manner.The bottom line is: if you don't want to be there, don't!
No one is forcing you (well most of the time at least, counting attendance is stupid IMHO).
If you want to study the course at your own pace in private, do so.
Leave the lectures to those that WANT to be there and learn, not only from the professor/lecturer, but also the fellow students that are actively being a part of that very lecture.If you want to play with your computer, do it somewhere else.
I can think of hundreds of places I would rather be, fooling around with my computer, than in a lecture hall during class.Those of you that take extensive notes on the laptop and can refrain from using the computer for other purposes during class, continue if that works for you.
As long as you don't disturb the other students.
But I would urge you to try to take less notes and think more of what you are writing down.
Using a pencil will, for most people, do so as you usually cannot write as quick as with a keyboard and must therefore selectively choose what to write down, sorting the information on the way.Also, written notes sometimes must be re-written "cleanly", that repetition is a good way of learning.There is more than one way to do it, but too many put too much faith in the laptops today (and others are to weakminded to resist their other uses).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428300</id>
	<title>Yes professor...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One word: Adidas<br>All<br>Day<br>I<br>Dream<br>About<br>Sex</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One word : AdidasAllDayIDreamAboutSex</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One word: AdidasAllDayIDreamAboutSex</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425208</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>DeadPixels</author>
	<datestamp>1268231880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly! You can ban laptops if you want, but it isn't going to make students pay attention if they don't feel like it. As long as they aren't distracting other students, I don't see a problem; they're paying to be there and if they want to use a laptop, that's their business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly !
You can ban laptops if you want , but it is n't going to make students pay attention if they do n't feel like it .
As long as they are n't distracting other students , I do n't see a problem ; they 're paying to be there and if they want to use a laptop , that 's their business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly!
You can ban laptops if you want, but it isn't going to make students pay attention if they don't feel like it.
As long as they aren't distracting other students, I don't see a problem; they're paying to be there and if they want to use a laptop, that's their business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425054</id>
	<title>First Post</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268230560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426172</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Asclepius99</author>
	<datestamp>1268236740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've had a lecture set up in stadium style seating where the guy in front of my enjoyed playing video games instead of paying attention to the lecture.  Having bright flashing colors and motion slightly down and to the right of your field of vision is a bit of a distraction.  Now it didn't go as far as stopping me from taking notes and I still got an A.  So it certainly wasn't a situation where it affected me a great but it was slightly annoying.  Not sure if I ban laptops entirely because of it, I guess that would depend on how many student complaints I'd received about it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had a lecture set up in stadium style seating where the guy in front of my enjoyed playing video games instead of paying attention to the lecture .
Having bright flashing colors and motion slightly down and to the right of your field of vision is a bit of a distraction .
Now it did n't go as far as stopping me from taking notes and I still got an A. So it certainly was n't a situation where it affected me a great but it was slightly annoying .
Not sure if I ban laptops entirely because of it , I guess that would depend on how many student complaints I 'd received about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had a lecture set up in stadium style seating where the guy in front of my enjoyed playing video games instead of paying attention to the lecture.
Having bright flashing colors and motion slightly down and to the right of your field of vision is a bit of a distraction.
Now it didn't go as far as stopping me from taking notes and I still got an A.  So it certainly wasn't a situation where it affected me a great but it was slightly annoying.
Not sure if I ban laptops entirely because of it, I guess that would depend on how many student complaints I'd received about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425264</id>
	<title>i agree</title>
	<author>emkyooess</author>
	<datestamp>1268232120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of my faculty lately have said, "You can bring a laptop if you ask me explicit permission and you vet your notes past me for a few weeks'."  AKA, he wants to make sure they're actually using it for that purpose for the first couple weeks.</p><p>Classes I've been in with open-laptops policy have been terrible -- I can't pay attention to the lecture because (a) all the clicking/keying around me but, more importantly, seeing (and sometimes even hearing) what they're doing.  It certainly is NOT related to the class in any way.  I'd see maybe one out of a dozen actually using the laptop in a decent way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of my faculty lately have said , " You can bring a laptop if you ask me explicit permission and you vet your notes past me for a few weeks' .
" AKA , he wants to make sure they 're actually using it for that purpose for the first couple weeks.Classes I 've been in with open-laptops policy have been terrible -- I ca n't pay attention to the lecture because ( a ) all the clicking/keying around me but , more importantly , seeing ( and sometimes even hearing ) what they 're doing .
It certainly is NOT related to the class in any way .
I 'd see maybe one out of a dozen actually using the laptop in a decent way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of my faculty lately have said, "You can bring a laptop if you ask me explicit permission and you vet your notes past me for a few weeks'.
"  AKA, he wants to make sure they're actually using it for that purpose for the first couple weeks.Classes I've been in with open-laptops policy have been terrible -- I can't pay attention to the lecture because (a) all the clicking/keying around me but, more importantly, seeing (and sometimes even hearing) what they're doing.
It certainly is NOT related to the class in any way.
I'd see maybe one out of a dozen actually using the laptop in a decent way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31451632</id>
	<title>Re:Note taking isn't stenography</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268409420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are those of us who need to include a wider context for the "most important information" in our notes. What may seem odd to you (the need to type fast to take notes) works for others (i.e. people who need more than an outline to make sense of the material presented in class). The point made over and over in these replies is that different people have different learning styles. There is no ONE correct way to take notes. But unfortunately many people think there is and they criticize those that are different.</p><p>Embrace diversity and let people learn using the style they choose. Isn't "diversity of ideas" what universities are supposed to be all about? Practice what you preach, higher ed. institutions! Leave us steno note takers be!!! Reserve the back of the room for those students who can multitask with games. Live and let live. Are the stenographers performing poorly on the tests? Are the gamers performing poorly on the tests? Let test measurements and grades be the way to control student behavior. If what the student is doing isn't working, it should reflect in their grades. Then they will be motivated to change or leave.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are those of us who need to include a wider context for the " most important information " in our notes .
What may seem odd to you ( the need to type fast to take notes ) works for others ( i.e .
people who need more than an outline to make sense of the material presented in class ) .
The point made over and over in these replies is that different people have different learning styles .
There is no ONE correct way to take notes .
But unfortunately many people think there is and they criticize those that are different.Embrace diversity and let people learn using the style they choose .
Is n't " diversity of ideas " what universities are supposed to be all about ?
Practice what you preach , higher ed .
institutions ! Leave us steno note takers be ! ! !
Reserve the back of the room for those students who can multitask with games .
Live and let live .
Are the stenographers performing poorly on the tests ?
Are the gamers performing poorly on the tests ?
Let test measurements and grades be the way to control student behavior .
If what the student is doing is n't working , it should reflect in their grades .
Then they will be motivated to change or leave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are those of us who need to include a wider context for the "most important information" in our notes.
What may seem odd to you (the need to type fast to take notes) works for others (i.e.
people who need more than an outline to make sense of the material presented in class).
The point made over and over in these replies is that different people have different learning styles.
There is no ONE correct way to take notes.
But unfortunately many people think there is and they criticize those that are different.Embrace diversity and let people learn using the style they choose.
Isn't "diversity of ideas" what universities are supposed to be all about?
Practice what you preach, higher ed.
institutions! Leave us steno note takers be!!!
Reserve the back of the room for those students who can multitask with games.
Live and let live.
Are the stenographers performing poorly on the tests?
Are the gamers performing poorly on the tests?
Let test measurements and grades be the way to control student behavior.
If what the student is doing isn't working, it should reflect in their grades.
Then they will be motivated to change or leave.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427278</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268241480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How the hell did this get modded "insightful"?</p><p>The real world IS a "hostile environment".  It doesn't adapt to you, you adapt to it.  That's just part of being a functioning adult.  College is about your last opportunity to learn how to do this while the stakes are still low (i.e., you're not going to lose your job, go hungry, wind up in jail, etc).</p><p>Yes, humans are by nature easily distracted, just as humans by nature crap on the ground.  We learn to override our innate self-centered tendencies as we grow up.  Yes, you can become spiteful as a consequence, but that is purely YOUR CHOICE.  If you choose to be grumpy about the fact that I and other instructors expect you to pay attention, you'll wind up losing out on amazing opportunities.  Meanwhile, those students who aren't running around with a gigantic sense of entitlement are going to succeed in life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How the hell did this get modded " insightful " ? The real world IS a " hostile environment " .
It does n't adapt to you , you adapt to it .
That 's just part of being a functioning adult .
College is about your last opportunity to learn how to do this while the stakes are still low ( i.e. , you 're not going to lose your job , go hungry , wind up in jail , etc ) .Yes , humans are by nature easily distracted , just as humans by nature crap on the ground .
We learn to override our innate self-centered tendencies as we grow up .
Yes , you can become spiteful as a consequence , but that is purely YOUR CHOICE .
If you choose to be grumpy about the fact that I and other instructors expect you to pay attention , you 'll wind up losing out on amazing opportunities .
Meanwhile , those students who are n't running around with a gigantic sense of entitlement are going to succeed in life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the hell did this get modded "insightful"?The real world IS a "hostile environment".
It doesn't adapt to you, you adapt to it.
That's just part of being a functioning adult.
College is about your last opportunity to learn how to do this while the stakes are still low (i.e., you're not going to lose your job, go hungry, wind up in jail, etc).Yes, humans are by nature easily distracted, just as humans by nature crap on the ground.
We learn to override our innate self-centered tendencies as we grow up.
Yes, you can become spiteful as a consequence, but that is purely YOUR CHOICE.
If you choose to be grumpy about the fact that I and other instructors expect you to pay attention, you'll wind up losing out on amazing opportunities.
Meanwhile, those students who aren't running around with a gigantic sense of entitlement are going to succeed in life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427844</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away, then so what? All that means is you can't give an interesting lecture.</p></div><p>Then why even go to the lecture in the first place if you feel that way?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away , then so what ?
All that means is you ca n't give an interesting lecture.Then why even go to the lecture in the first place if you feel that way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away, then so what?
All that means is you can't give an interesting lecture.Then why even go to the lecture in the first place if you feel that way?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427008</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426756</id>
	<title>Re:Wait....</title>
	<author>Atraxen</author>
	<datestamp>1268239380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you recall ever being given a blurb in a syllabus that strongly suggests that the optimal approach to learning in a class is to:<br>- read the materials before class (even a cursory read will do)<br>- come to class to gain connections, context, and detail for the more subtle points<br>- study after class to do the 'heavy lifting' of mastering the details?<br>Following that approach may help you with the "can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time" issue.</p><p>It's a lecture, and not a class, because with large dining halls, a fleet of academic/social/athletic buses, computer labs that require constant updating, etc., most campus administrations have moved to larger-sized intro-level courses and reserve the good instructor:student ratios for higher level courses (where the effort will support their discipline's students) rather than using scarce resources on intro/gen-ed classes.  That's why it's a 'lecture', and not a 'class'.  However, most of your profs have made a major commitment to educating (take hard science faculty - they choose beginning salaries in the $40k-50k range, rather than $120k+).  Trying to maximize your learning gains IS the prof's business, actually (in the business/career sense), along with using the rest of their hours to contribute to the field.</p><p>The good (and still energetic) faculty try to offset these large-sized classes by using approaches that try to build back in some of the in-the-moment feedback from a small-class setting - both for the students and themselves.  e.g. That's one of the things we're trying to do when we have you use those 'clickers'.  For many of us, it's the reason for online homework systems - not because we're lazy, as we're often portrayed, but because we see the same common mistakes over and over and these systems do an improvingly-passing job of giving feedback as you're learning.  We try to spur on classroom interaction.  Are we always successful?  Nope - and the still-energetic faculty also have to overcome the difficulty of learning this trade (teaching the highest-level classes) IN ADDITION to being a top-tier participant in their field.  (Those who can, do, those who can try to do everything well at the expense of a life and sleep, teach.)</p><p>Why do I keep referring to 'energetic' faculty?  Because, as time goes on it's simply too draining to fight the room full of 50/130 students staring at their screens.  Seeing solitaire cards (or worse...) reflected back throughout the room.  And not interacting/participating/responding to your efforts to reclaim the small-class opportunities for them.  You see, those students on their laptops, the ones tuned-out, the ones 'showing up' in body, but not caring about the class - they're the control rods in a reactor.  And by inserting them in the classroom, it has the same effect - it kills any amplification you get from having many minds in a room together, and reduces the classroom into a YouTube video - but there's now actual YouTube videos in the room that have skateboarding dogs, and stoichiometry can't compete with that for many people.</p><p>So, it's a negative feedback loop - you complain that the class is pointless, so you entertain yourself instead.  Blunting any efforts on the part of the prof to improve the experience for yourself and those around you, and make it NOT pointless.  The prof burns more hours/energy trying to overcome this.  Finally, many simply give up and give over-rehearsed slides/monologues to the large classes, and save their energy for the 10 person majors-only class that really digs in with you, and feeds off of one another to construct a deeper knowledge of the material than any of them had from the textbook alone.</p><p>Yeah, feel free to roll your eyes at this - to say that no (or not enough) profs try as hard as I'm claiming.  Whatever - you can pick it apart point-by-point, and we can have a running text battle for weeks!  The big idea is: this is the view p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you recall ever being given a blurb in a syllabus that strongly suggests that the optimal approach to learning in a class is to : - read the materials before class ( even a cursory read will do ) - come to class to gain connections , context , and detail for the more subtle points- study after class to do the 'heavy lifting ' of mastering the details ? Following that approach may help you with the " ca n't really use what I 've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I 've tried out [ whatever technique/method we 're learning ] on my own in my own time " issue.It 's a lecture , and not a class , because with large dining halls , a fleet of academic/social/athletic buses , computer labs that require constant updating , etc. , most campus administrations have moved to larger-sized intro-level courses and reserve the good instructor : student ratios for higher level courses ( where the effort will support their discipline 's students ) rather than using scarce resources on intro/gen-ed classes .
That 's why it 's a 'lecture ' , and not a 'class' .
However , most of your profs have made a major commitment to educating ( take hard science faculty - they choose beginning salaries in the $ 40k-50k range , rather than $ 120k + ) .
Trying to maximize your learning gains IS the prof 's business , actually ( in the business/career sense ) , along with using the rest of their hours to contribute to the field.The good ( and still energetic ) faculty try to offset these large-sized classes by using approaches that try to build back in some of the in-the-moment feedback from a small-class setting - both for the students and themselves .
e.g. That 's one of the things we 're trying to do when we have you use those 'clickers' .
For many of us , it 's the reason for online homework systems - not because we 're lazy , as we 're often portrayed , but because we see the same common mistakes over and over and these systems do an improvingly-passing job of giving feedback as you 're learning .
We try to spur on classroom interaction .
Are we always successful ?
Nope - and the still-energetic faculty also have to overcome the difficulty of learning this trade ( teaching the highest-level classes ) IN ADDITION to being a top-tier participant in their field .
( Those who can , do , those who can try to do everything well at the expense of a life and sleep , teach .
) Why do I keep referring to 'energetic ' faculty ?
Because , as time goes on it 's simply too draining to fight the room full of 50/130 students staring at their screens .
Seeing solitaire cards ( or worse... ) reflected back throughout the room .
And not interacting/participating/responding to your efforts to reclaim the small-class opportunities for them .
You see , those students on their laptops , the ones tuned-out , the ones 'showing up ' in body , but not caring about the class - they 're the control rods in a reactor .
And by inserting them in the classroom , it has the same effect - it kills any amplification you get from having many minds in a room together , and reduces the classroom into a YouTube video - but there 's now actual YouTube videos in the room that have skateboarding dogs , and stoichiometry ca n't compete with that for many people.So , it 's a negative feedback loop - you complain that the class is pointless , so you entertain yourself instead .
Blunting any efforts on the part of the prof to improve the experience for yourself and those around you , and make it NOT pointless .
The prof burns more hours/energy trying to overcome this .
Finally , many simply give up and give over-rehearsed slides/monologues to the large classes , and save their energy for the 10 person majors-only class that really digs in with you , and feeds off of one another to construct a deeper knowledge of the material than any of them had from the textbook alone.Yeah , feel free to roll your eyes at this - to say that no ( or not enough ) profs try as hard as I 'm claiming .
Whatever - you can pick it apart point-by-point , and we can have a running text battle for weeks !
The big idea is : this is the view p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you recall ever being given a blurb in a syllabus that strongly suggests that the optimal approach to learning in a class is to:- read the materials before class (even a cursory read will do)- come to class to gain connections, context, and detail for the more subtle points- study after class to do the 'heavy lifting' of mastering the details?Following that approach may help you with the "can't really use what I've been taught or contribute to discussion/examples until I've tried out [whatever technique/method we're learning] on my own in my own time" issue.It's a lecture, and not a class, because with large dining halls, a fleet of academic/social/athletic buses, computer labs that require constant updating, etc., most campus administrations have moved to larger-sized intro-level courses and reserve the good instructor:student ratios for higher level courses (where the effort will support their discipline's students) rather than using scarce resources on intro/gen-ed classes.
That's why it's a 'lecture', and not a 'class'.
However, most of your profs have made a major commitment to educating (take hard science faculty - they choose beginning salaries in the $40k-50k range, rather than $120k+).
Trying to maximize your learning gains IS the prof's business, actually (in the business/career sense), along with using the rest of their hours to contribute to the field.The good (and still energetic) faculty try to offset these large-sized classes by using approaches that try to build back in some of the in-the-moment feedback from a small-class setting - both for the students and themselves.
e.g. That's one of the things we're trying to do when we have you use those 'clickers'.
For many of us, it's the reason for online homework systems - not because we're lazy, as we're often portrayed, but because we see the same common mistakes over and over and these systems do an improvingly-passing job of giving feedback as you're learning.
We try to spur on classroom interaction.
Are we always successful?
Nope - and the still-energetic faculty also have to overcome the difficulty of learning this trade (teaching the highest-level classes) IN ADDITION to being a top-tier participant in their field.
(Those who can, do, those who can try to do everything well at the expense of a life and sleep, teach.
)Why do I keep referring to 'energetic' faculty?
Because, as time goes on it's simply too draining to fight the room full of 50/130 students staring at their screens.
Seeing solitaire cards (or worse...) reflected back throughout the room.
And not interacting/participating/responding to your efforts to reclaim the small-class opportunities for them.
You see, those students on their laptops, the ones tuned-out, the ones 'showing up' in body, but not caring about the class - they're the control rods in a reactor.
And by inserting them in the classroom, it has the same effect - it kills any amplification you get from having many minds in a room together, and reduces the classroom into a YouTube video - but there's now actual YouTube videos in the room that have skateboarding dogs, and stoichiometry can't compete with that for many people.So, it's a negative feedback loop - you complain that the class is pointless, so you entertain yourself instead.
Blunting any efforts on the part of the prof to improve the experience for yourself and those around you, and make it NOT pointless.
The prof burns more hours/energy trying to overcome this.
Finally, many simply give up and give over-rehearsed slides/monologues to the large classes, and save their energy for the 10 person majors-only class that really digs in with you, and feeds off of one another to construct a deeper knowledge of the material than any of them had from the textbook alone.Yeah, feel free to roll your eyes at this - to say that no (or not enough) profs try as hard as I'm claiming.
Whatever - you can pick it apart point-by-point, and we can have a running text battle for weeks!
The big idea is: this is the view p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428924</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Tibor the Hun</author>
	<datestamp>1268249340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't want to sound insensitive but being a Master at night is only advantageous over the Master at day, or even a full Masters, only in Transylvania.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want to sound insensitive but being a Master at night is only advantageous over the Master at day , or even a full Masters , only in Transylvania .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want to sound insensitive but being a Master at night is only advantageous over the Master at day, or even a full Masters, only in Transylvania.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425078</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>dwarfsoft</author>
	<datestamp>1268230680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, he should have gone with a car analogy instead...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , he should have gone with a car analogy instead.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, he should have gone with a car analogy instead...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425364</id>
	<title>Writing by hand aids memory....</title>
	<author>aapold</author>
	<datestamp>1268232540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least for me it does.

However, I'm happy to take notes on my tablet, and it works equally well for that (better, even).

I imagine this would be a natural use of an iPad as well....</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least for me it does .
However , I 'm happy to take notes on my tablet , and it works equally well for that ( better , even ) .
I imagine this would be a natural use of an iPad as well... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least for me it does.
However, I'm happy to take notes on my tablet, and it works equally well for that (better, even).
I imagine this would be a natural use of an iPad as well....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31430644</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>newcastlejon</author>
	<datestamp>1268214060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>And besides whose paying the tuition?</i> </p><p>I see you're not an English major!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div><p>Or, indeed, an English student. Because here if you come from a poorer family the state will pay your tuition fees*. I was one of these lucky folks; without the state I'd probably be just another spanner-jockey by now.</p><p>Someone asked earlier why lecturers take a register, well among other reasons it's to let the student finance peeps know if you're wasting their money. Sure it has nothing to do with banning laptops, which just seems asinine (I'm not an Eng Lang/Lit student btw, so don't bother)</p><p>My point is that it isn't necessarily <i>your</i> money you're wasting, but even if it is one of these facebook-surfing miscreants is taking up a seat that could have gone to someone who would make better use of it</p><p>*Up until recently, anyway. Now it seems wholly state-funded higher education has been replaced by a system of loans paid back after graduation and limited state subsidies. I suppose it had to happen eventually, but you can bet your bottom dollar - is that how you say it? - that if things were as before and students wasted time in class they <i>would</i> be told to buck up their ideas.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And besides whose paying the tuition ?
I see you 're not an English major !
; ) Or , indeed , an English student .
Because here if you come from a poorer family the state will pay your tuition fees * .
I was one of these lucky folks ; without the state I 'd probably be just another spanner-jockey by now.Someone asked earlier why lecturers take a register , well among other reasons it 's to let the student finance peeps know if you 're wasting their money .
Sure it has nothing to do with banning laptops , which just seems asinine ( I 'm not an Eng Lang/Lit student btw , so do n't bother ) My point is that it is n't necessarily your money you 're wasting , but even if it is one of these facebook-surfing miscreants is taking up a seat that could have gone to someone who would make better use of it * Up until recently , anyway .
Now it seems wholly state-funded higher education has been replaced by a system of loans paid back after graduation and limited state subsidies .
I suppose it had to happen eventually , but you can bet your bottom dollar - is that how you say it ?
- that if things were as before and students wasted time in class they would be told to buck up their ideas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And besides whose paying the tuition?
I see you're not an English major!
;)Or, indeed, an English student.
Because here if you come from a poorer family the state will pay your tuition fees*.
I was one of these lucky folks; without the state I'd probably be just another spanner-jockey by now.Someone asked earlier why lecturers take a register, well among other reasons it's to let the student finance peeps know if you're wasting their money.
Sure it has nothing to do with banning laptops, which just seems asinine (I'm not an Eng Lang/Lit student btw, so don't bother)My point is that it isn't necessarily your money you're wasting, but even if it is one of these facebook-surfing miscreants is taking up a seat that could have gone to someone who would make better use of it*Up until recently, anyway.
Now it seems wholly state-funded higher education has been replaced by a system of loans paid back after graduation and limited state subsidies.
I suppose it had to happen eventually, but you can bet your bottom dollar - is that how you say it?
- that if things were as before and students wasted time in class they would be told to buck up their ideas.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427986</id>
	<title>A novel idea: be a better student</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Professors ARE teachers. [...] their job is to get ideas into your head.</p></div><p>I don't understand this mentality. Supposedly, students are at university voluntarily because they <i>want</i> to learn. It is their job to learn. It is the professor's job to <i>help</i> them to learn, by clarifying the material in the textbook, by illustrating connections not obvious in the course material, by explaining details glossed over in the text.</p><p>University is not about mandatory warehousing of children. It is supposed to be about adults wanting to learn.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Professors ARE teachers .
[ ... ] their job is to get ideas into your head.I do n't understand this mentality .
Supposedly , students are at university voluntarily because they want to learn .
It is their job to learn .
It is the professor 's job to help them to learn , by clarifying the material in the textbook , by illustrating connections not obvious in the course material , by explaining details glossed over in the text.University is not about mandatory warehousing of children .
It is supposed to be about adults wanting to learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Professors ARE teachers.
[...] their job is to get ideas into your head.I don't understand this mentality.
Supposedly, students are at university voluntarily because they want to learn.
It is their job to learn.
It is the professor's job to help them to learn, by clarifying the material in the textbook, by illustrating connections not obvious in the course material, by explaining details glossed over in the text.University is not about mandatory warehousing of children.
It is supposed to be about adults wanting to learn.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427944</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a professor, I can confirm this. My lectures suffer when the "crowd" is unresponsive. Even when I give "pure" lectures when I'm not asking for active feedback, I still use a lot of passive interaction in the form of head nodding or expression to gauge how well the material is going over. With no feedback, I can't tell if everyone has got it and they are bored, no one got it, or just no one is listening. Do I need to explain further or just plow ahead? Personally, I hate lectures that just drone on like a prepared script and that is what this kind of reaction inspires. At that point you are only one step away from the room full of tape recorders recording the teachers recorded lecture in Real Genius (of course there at least the students had some recording). I really don't think most students realize how much just being engaged can affect the quality of their education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a professor , I can confirm this .
My lectures suffer when the " crowd " is unresponsive .
Even when I give " pure " lectures when I 'm not asking for active feedback , I still use a lot of passive interaction in the form of head nodding or expression to gauge how well the material is going over .
With no feedback , I ca n't tell if everyone has got it and they are bored , no one got it , or just no one is listening .
Do I need to explain further or just plow ahead ?
Personally , I hate lectures that just drone on like a prepared script and that is what this kind of reaction inspires .
At that point you are only one step away from the room full of tape recorders recording the teachers recorded lecture in Real Genius ( of course there at least the students had some recording ) .
I really do n't think most students realize how much just being engaged can affect the quality of their education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a professor, I can confirm this.
My lectures suffer when the "crowd" is unresponsive.
Even when I give "pure" lectures when I'm not asking for active feedback, I still use a lot of passive interaction in the form of head nodding or expression to gauge how well the material is going over.
With no feedback, I can't tell if everyone has got it and they are bored, no one got it, or just no one is listening.
Do I need to explain further or just plow ahead?
Personally, I hate lectures that just drone on like a prepared script and that is what this kind of reaction inspires.
At that point you are only one step away from the room full of tape recorders recording the teachers recorded lecture in Real Genius (of course there at least the students had some recording).
I really don't think most students realize how much just being engaged can affect the quality of their education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425430</id>
	<title>I agree</title>
	<author>koan</author>
	<datestamp>1268232840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm older and going back to school with a laptop taking notes in class was not working for me, I was easily distracted by either the program I was using, some technical issue, or fighting for the one power socket in the room and in the end I found I had poor recall and reviewing notes on the computer was, frankly, a drag.<br>Switching to paper kept me engaged, no technical issues, easy on my eyes to review, and the information stayed with me longer.<br>Not sure how it is for younger folks but paper note taking works best for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm older and going back to school with a laptop taking notes in class was not working for me , I was easily distracted by either the program I was using , some technical issue , or fighting for the one power socket in the room and in the end I found I had poor recall and reviewing notes on the computer was , frankly , a drag.Switching to paper kept me engaged , no technical issues , easy on my eyes to review , and the information stayed with me longer.Not sure how it is for younger folks but paper note taking works best for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm older and going back to school with a laptop taking notes in class was not working for me, I was easily distracted by either the program I was using, some technical issue, or fighting for the one power socket in the room and in the end I found I had poor recall and reviewing notes on the computer was, frankly, a drag.Switching to paper kept me engaged, no technical issues, easy on my eyes to review, and the information stayed with me longer.Not sure how it is for younger folks but paper note taking works best for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426284</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268237280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>And besides whose paying the tuition?</i></p><p>I see you're not an English major!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>(Yes, I've made that mistake too. I just thought it was funny. When you did, not when I did.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And besides whose paying the tuition ? I see you 're not an English major !
; ) ( Yes , I 've made that mistake too .
I just thought it was funny .
When you did , not when I did .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And besides whose paying the tuition?I see you're not an English major!
;)(Yes, I've made that mistake too.
I just thought it was funny.
When you did, not when I did.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425388</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>psulonen</author>
	<datestamp>1268232720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Problem is, many professors have no training as lecturers or teachers, and may not even have much talent for it. They may nevertheless be extremely good at what they do, and have extremely relevant and important things to say.<br> <br>

The course that most changed the way I think about stuff was by a prof who looked like he crawled straight out of some dusty archive, and he drone on in tedious monotone about it. The subject was just about the most boring imaginable as well. I had to struggle to stay awake for the first couple of lectures. Then I picked up on the substance of what he was saying, and it turned out it was some of the most insightful stuff I've ever come across, in any medium.<br> <br>

Conversely, there was another lecturer who was fascinating, funny, dazzling, and exciting, but never had anything to say that wasn't either trivial, wrong, or easily available in basic literature. <br> <br>

Is it fair to expect that professors are also great teachers? Personally, I don't think so. It would be a great bonus, but some profs just aren't cut out for it -- yet they may well be the ones with the deepest knowledge about their subject.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem is , many professors have no training as lecturers or teachers , and may not even have much talent for it .
They may nevertheless be extremely good at what they do , and have extremely relevant and important things to say .
The course that most changed the way I think about stuff was by a prof who looked like he crawled straight out of some dusty archive , and he drone on in tedious monotone about it .
The subject was just about the most boring imaginable as well .
I had to struggle to stay awake for the first couple of lectures .
Then I picked up on the substance of what he was saying , and it turned out it was some of the most insightful stuff I 've ever come across , in any medium .
Conversely , there was another lecturer who was fascinating , funny , dazzling , and exciting , but never had anything to say that was n't either trivial , wrong , or easily available in basic literature .
Is it fair to expect that professors are also great teachers ?
Personally , I do n't think so .
It would be a great bonus , but some profs just are n't cut out for it -- yet they may well be the ones with the deepest knowledge about their subject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem is, many professors have no training as lecturers or teachers, and may not even have much talent for it.
They may nevertheless be extremely good at what they do, and have extremely relevant and important things to say.
The course that most changed the way I think about stuff was by a prof who looked like he crawled straight out of some dusty archive, and he drone on in tedious monotone about it.
The subject was just about the most boring imaginable as well.
I had to struggle to stay awake for the first couple of lectures.
Then I picked up on the substance of what he was saying, and it turned out it was some of the most insightful stuff I've ever come across, in any medium.
Conversely, there was another lecturer who was fascinating, funny, dazzling, and exciting, but never had anything to say that wasn't either trivial, wrong, or easily available in basic literature.
Is it fair to expect that professors are also great teachers?
Personally, I don't think so.
It would be a great bonus, but some profs just aren't cut out for it -- yet they may well be the ones with the deepest knowledge about their subject.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425944</id>
	<title>Preparation for the real world.</title>
	<author>tarlss</author>
	<datestamp>1268235720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry guys, computerized learning is here to stay. Just because you've encountered an old problem in a new format (students being distracted) doesn't mean that 'technology is bad'!

Seriously, when these kids graduate they'll be using computers to take notes all day, no matter what sort of job they're doing. Heck, even mechanics take notes on their laptop pads of parts they need to order, diagrams, etc.

In the real world, people are going to have to learn how to deal with distraction as well, be it from the neighbors cubicle, or heaven forbid, the outside world actually intruding. This teacher is some kind of primadonna, upset about losing an audience he didn't have in the first place.

If you can't compete World of Warcraft or facebook, what does that say about you as a lecturer? What does this say about you as a student? Face it- throughout life you're always going to have some asshole frittering away his time while you do work, there's always going to be kids being distracting, and your boss is going to suck up an inordinate amount of time sending you stupid chain emails- learn to deal with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry guys , computerized learning is here to stay .
Just because you 've encountered an old problem in a new format ( students being distracted ) does n't mean that 'technology is bad ' !
Seriously , when these kids graduate they 'll be using computers to take notes all day , no matter what sort of job they 're doing .
Heck , even mechanics take notes on their laptop pads of parts they need to order , diagrams , etc .
In the real world , people are going to have to learn how to deal with distraction as well , be it from the neighbors cubicle , or heaven forbid , the outside world actually intruding .
This teacher is some kind of primadonna , upset about losing an audience he did n't have in the first place .
If you ca n't compete World of Warcraft or facebook , what does that say about you as a lecturer ?
What does this say about you as a student ?
Face it- throughout life you 're always going to have some asshole frittering away his time while you do work , there 's always going to be kids being distracting , and your boss is going to suck up an inordinate amount of time sending you stupid chain emails- learn to deal with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry guys, computerized learning is here to stay.
Just because you've encountered an old problem in a new format (students being distracted) doesn't mean that 'technology is bad'!
Seriously, when these kids graduate they'll be using computers to take notes all day, no matter what sort of job they're doing.
Heck, even mechanics take notes on their laptop pads of parts they need to order, diagrams, etc.
In the real world, people are going to have to learn how to deal with distraction as well, be it from the neighbors cubicle, or heaven forbid, the outside world actually intruding.
This teacher is some kind of primadonna, upset about losing an audience he didn't have in the first place.
If you can't compete World of Warcraft or facebook, what does that say about you as a lecturer?
What does this say about you as a student?
Face it- throughout life you're always going to have some asshole frittering away his time while you do work, there's always going to be kids being distracting, and your boss is going to suck up an inordinate amount of time sending you stupid chain emails- learn to deal with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425670</id>
	<title>The students are adults.</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1268234040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they flunk because they watch porn instead of paying attention that's their choice.  If they watch porn during lectures and don't flunk, what the hell were the lectures for?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they flunk because they watch porn instead of paying attention that 's their choice .
If they watch porn during lectures and do n't flunk , what the hell were the lectures for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they flunk because they watch porn instead of paying attention that's their choice.
If they watch porn during lectures and don't flunk, what the hell were the lectures for?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425466</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>ElectricTurtle</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Technology does not hinder education, people hinder themselves. Tools are amoral. The have no character, no conscience. Those people you observed were not the captives of their computers, forced to play games. They chose to do that, and they are adults, responsible for their decisions and their outcomes. It is not up to professors to save people from themselves. Laptops improved my efficacy in both high school and college, if their use diminished others' efficacy, it is up to those people to restrain themselves, rather than indirectly causing my own efficacy to be reduced. If they fail from a lazy and deficient character, they have punished themselves. There is no need to punish or restrain others without problems for the mistakes of those with problems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Technology does not hinder education , people hinder themselves .
Tools are amoral .
The have no character , no conscience .
Those people you observed were not the captives of their computers , forced to play games .
They chose to do that , and they are adults , responsible for their decisions and their outcomes .
It is not up to professors to save people from themselves .
Laptops improved my efficacy in both high school and college , if their use diminished others ' efficacy , it is up to those people to restrain themselves , rather than indirectly causing my own efficacy to be reduced .
If they fail from a lazy and deficient character , they have punished themselves .
There is no need to punish or restrain others without problems for the mistakes of those with problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technology does not hinder education, people hinder themselves.
Tools are amoral.
The have no character, no conscience.
Those people you observed were not the captives of their computers, forced to play games.
They chose to do that, and they are adults, responsible for their decisions and their outcomes.
It is not up to professors to save people from themselves.
Laptops improved my efficacy in both high school and college, if their use diminished others' efficacy, it is up to those people to restrain themselves, rather than indirectly causing my own efficacy to be reduced.
If they fail from a lazy and deficient character, they have punished themselves.
There is no need to punish or restrain others without problems for the mistakes of those with problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425930</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1268235720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I could be totally off base here, but I'm guessing that the prof's need feedback too. If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops, the prof's have no idea if anyone is listening at all.</p></div></blockquote><p>From my experience as an instructor in the Navy, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.  You watch the students, and their body language as well as their facial expressions, to see whether they are "getting it" or not.  Teaching, especially good teaching, is an interactive process.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I could be totally off base here , but I 'm guessing that the prof 's need feedback too .
If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops , the prof 's have no idea if anyone is listening at all.From my experience as an instructor in the Navy , you 've pretty much hit the nail on the head here .
You watch the students , and their body language as well as their facial expressions , to see whether they are " getting it " or not .
Teaching , especially good teaching , is an interactive process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could be totally off base here, but I'm guessing that the prof's need feedback too.
If they see every face in the classroom looking emotionless at their laptops, the prof's have no idea if anyone is listening at all.From my experience as an instructor in the Navy, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here.
You watch the students, and their body language as well as their facial expressions, to see whether they are "getting it" or not.
Teaching, especially good teaching, is an interactive process.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</id>
	<title>This is College</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1268230920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.</p><p>The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on.  On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing how this is college , I 'm dumbfounded by the " nannying " going on here.The way I see it , unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \ _other \ _ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on .
On the other hand , if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise ( intended or not ) and it is distracting the professor or other students , then I see a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.The way I see it, unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students then they are nothing more than another medium to take notes on.
On the other hand, if I happen to have a laptop that makes a lot of noise (intended or not) and it is distracting the professor or other students, then I see a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425316</id>
	<title>No banning allowed here</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1268232360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;After all, how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins?'<br>I have to agree here, it is not because someone misuses a technology that you have to ban it, tell that to those stupid<br>bastards over at FIAA thinking anything torrent is pirated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; After all , how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins ?
'I have to agree here , it is not because someone misuses a technology that you have to ban it , tell that to those stupidbastards over at FIAA thinking anything torrent is pirated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;After all, how many professors ban pens and notebooks after noticing students doodling in the margins?
'I have to agree here, it is not because someone misuses a technology that you have to ban it, tell that to those stupidbastards over at FIAA thinking anything torrent is pirated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427716</id>
	<title>I use an abacus you insensitive clod!</title>
	<author>NoBozo99</author>
	<datestamp>1268243520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Move along nothing here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Move along nothing here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Move along nothing here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31433374</id>
	<title>Re:Another prof's take on this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268230200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Regarding note-taking: I have never seen a student take notes on a computer.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes, you have.  You just didn't notice it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Regarding note-taking : I have never seen a student take notes on a computer.Yes , you have .
You just did n't notice it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Regarding note-taking: I have never seen a student take notes on a computer.Yes, you have.
You just didn't notice it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426594</id>
	<title>My question is...</title>
	<author>JoeDuncan</author>
	<datestamp>1268238540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are going to sit through a lecture playing games, creeping your neighbour on facebook, watching porn or just generally wasting time and attention - why go to class in the first place?!?!? </p><p>
At that point, you're not getting anything out of it, and would probably enjoy doing what your doing *even more* somewhere else - I mean a lecture hall has to be one of the most uncomfortable places to consume pr0n I can imagine...</p><p>Besides, this is university, it's not like the prof *actually cares* whether you are there or not, but you are probably distracting other students.</p><p>When I was in undergrad, if I didn't want to go to a lecture - here's a novel idea - *I didn't go*!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are going to sit through a lecture playing games , creeping your neighbour on facebook , watching porn or just generally wasting time and attention - why go to class in the first place ? ! ? ! ?
At that point , you 're not getting anything out of it , and would probably enjoy doing what your doing * even more * somewhere else - I mean a lecture hall has to be one of the most uncomfortable places to consume pr0n I can imagine...Besides , this is university , it 's not like the prof * actually cares * whether you are there or not , but you are probably distracting other students.When I was in undergrad , if I did n't want to go to a lecture - here 's a novel idea - * I did n't go * !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are going to sit through a lecture playing games, creeping your neighbour on facebook, watching porn or just generally wasting time and attention - why go to class in the first place?!?!?
At that point, you're not getting anything out of it, and would probably enjoy doing what your doing *even more* somewhere else - I mean a lecture hall has to be one of the most uncomfortable places to consume pr0n I can imagine...Besides, this is university, it's not like the prof *actually cares* whether you are there or not, but you are probably distracting other students.When I was in undergrad, if I didn't want to go to a lecture - here's a novel idea - *I didn't go*!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427704</id>
	<title>My Take on the Situation</title>
	<author>WarpedCore</author>
	<datestamp>1268243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it's a double standard... the universities say, "Sure, we'll move to and encourage a digital infrastructure for class notes, grades, discussions, bulletins, scheduling, academic affairs, housing, food services... etc." and offer wifi across campus.. give you meager discounts off of laptops for school... yet the instant a professor feels insecure about being heard in a lecture hall of 500... they get turned off.
<p>
I don't buy the keyboard clicking argument... students come to class sick... hack everywhere, they talk obnoxiously... professors won't excuse students and expect others to deal with it, but the INSTANT a laptop is pulled out, it becomes an issue.
</p><p>
I understand that there is a place for laptops. Particularly, I don't find them useful in math classes (unless there is web-based testing or information that supplements it). Writing examples, understanding how the problem is setup and solved flow better when you're practicing them on paper (as you're expected to do the same thing for exams). It's impossible (at least for me) to translate complex board work to a keyboard in a particular order (and with graphical examples) without writing them by hand.
</p><p>
I've taken online calculus and regular pen/paper calculus). I was lucky that the professor scanned problem examples and solutions written out in order to make things easier. Just, there is no reason for them in math classes, in my personal experience/opinion.
</p><p>
English, History, Philosophy, Economics... Biology... just anything with straight up concepts (even with involvement of math) feels necessary in order to obtain information. It's learning preference... some people listen, others write, some type. It's harder for me to try to listen to a professor explain while trying to make my writing legible enough to read later. I consciously have to be an art student to doodle legible characters while trying to grasp concepts. Professors can't really gauge the students natural ability to absorb and retain information... Are they going to supply Adderall at the door to lecture halls.
</p><p>
I had at least one professor take time out of his lecture to "assume" what I've been doing on my laptop, point me out to the class, try to embarrass me, and physically threaten me by walking up to my face and call me "deaf" and "insubordinate" because I had a laptop open. No, I am not failing the class after the incident and no one mentioned it again. It's just insecurity and lack of professionalism... that universities NEEDS with pushing responsibility of students (rising tuition, other costs... bloated or spiraling budgets resulting in student activity cuts.. furlough days).
</p><p>
Nah, the university won't turn wifi off in lecture halls or at least block facebook or anything considered distracting (I guess that goes against university Prime Directive to expand knowledge)...  but they'll sure as hell create an area in their IT department to serve up letters to have students cough up money for file sharing.
</p><p>
Laptop bans are stupid. I understand cell phones simply because they are communications appliances.. sure, people can wreck into utility polls at 80mph while getting maybe... 90WPM saying, "I haz good time last night 
Just all in all.. universities need to re-evaluate other factors than the assumption of a student's attention span that might be sinking the ship.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's a double standard... the universities say , " Sure , we 'll move to and encourage a digital infrastructure for class notes , grades , discussions , bulletins , scheduling , academic affairs , housing , food services.. .
etc. " and offer wifi across campus.. give you meager discounts off of laptops for school... yet the instant a professor feels insecure about being heard in a lecture hall of 500... they get turned off .
I do n't buy the keyboard clicking argument... students come to class sick... hack everywhere , they talk obnoxiously... professors wo n't excuse students and expect others to deal with it , but the INSTANT a laptop is pulled out , it becomes an issue .
I understand that there is a place for laptops .
Particularly , I do n't find them useful in math classes ( unless there is web-based testing or information that supplements it ) .
Writing examples , understanding how the problem is setup and solved flow better when you 're practicing them on paper ( as you 're expected to do the same thing for exams ) .
It 's impossible ( at least for me ) to translate complex board work to a keyboard in a particular order ( and with graphical examples ) without writing them by hand .
I 've taken online calculus and regular pen/paper calculus ) .
I was lucky that the professor scanned problem examples and solutions written out in order to make things easier .
Just , there is no reason for them in math classes , in my personal experience/opinion .
English , History , Philosophy , Economics... Biology... just anything with straight up concepts ( even with involvement of math ) feels necessary in order to obtain information .
It 's learning preference... some people listen , others write , some type .
It 's harder for me to try to listen to a professor explain while trying to make my writing legible enough to read later .
I consciously have to be an art student to doodle legible characters while trying to grasp concepts .
Professors ca n't really gauge the students natural ability to absorb and retain information... Are they going to supply Adderall at the door to lecture halls .
I had at least one professor take time out of his lecture to " assume " what I 've been doing on my laptop , point me out to the class , try to embarrass me , and physically threaten me by walking up to my face and call me " deaf " and " insubordinate " because I had a laptop open .
No , I am not failing the class after the incident and no one mentioned it again .
It 's just insecurity and lack of professionalism... that universities NEEDS with pushing responsibility of students ( rising tuition , other costs... bloated or spiraling budgets resulting in student activity cuts.. furlough days ) .
Nah , the university wo n't turn wifi off in lecture halls or at least block facebook or anything considered distracting ( I guess that goes against university Prime Directive to expand knowledge ) ... but they 'll sure as hell create an area in their IT department to serve up letters to have students cough up money for file sharing .
Laptop bans are stupid .
I understand cell phones simply because they are communications appliances.. sure , people can wreck into utility polls at 80mph while getting maybe... 90WPM saying , " I haz good time last night Just all in all.. universities need to re-evaluate other factors than the assumption of a student 's attention span that might be sinking the ship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's a double standard... the universities say, "Sure, we'll move to and encourage a digital infrastructure for class notes, grades, discussions, bulletins, scheduling, academic affairs, housing, food services...
etc." and offer wifi across campus.. give you meager discounts off of laptops for school... yet the instant a professor feels insecure about being heard in a lecture hall of 500... they get turned off.
I don't buy the keyboard clicking argument... students come to class sick... hack everywhere, they talk obnoxiously... professors won't excuse students and expect others to deal with it, but the INSTANT a laptop is pulled out, it becomes an issue.
I understand that there is a place for laptops.
Particularly, I don't find them useful in math classes (unless there is web-based testing or information that supplements it).
Writing examples, understanding how the problem is setup and solved flow better when you're practicing them on paper (as you're expected to do the same thing for exams).
It's impossible (at least for me) to translate complex board work to a keyboard in a particular order (and with graphical examples) without writing them by hand.
I've taken online calculus and regular pen/paper calculus).
I was lucky that the professor scanned problem examples and solutions written out in order to make things easier.
Just, there is no reason for them in math classes, in my personal experience/opinion.
English, History, Philosophy, Economics... Biology... just anything with straight up concepts (even with involvement of math) feels necessary in order to obtain information.
It's learning preference... some people listen, others write, some type.
It's harder for me to try to listen to a professor explain while trying to make my writing legible enough to read later.
I consciously have to be an art student to doodle legible characters while trying to grasp concepts.
Professors can't really gauge the students natural ability to absorb and retain information... Are they going to supply Adderall at the door to lecture halls.
I had at least one professor take time out of his lecture to "assume" what I've been doing on my laptop, point me out to the class, try to embarrass me, and physically threaten me by walking up to my face and call me "deaf" and "insubordinate" because I had a laptop open.
No, I am not failing the class after the incident and no one mentioned it again.
It's just insecurity and lack of professionalism... that universities NEEDS with pushing responsibility of students (rising tuition, other costs... bloated or spiraling budgets resulting in student activity cuts.. furlough days).
Nah, the university won't turn wifi off in lecture halls or at least block facebook or anything considered distracting (I guess that goes against university Prime Directive to expand knowledge)...  but they'll sure as hell create an area in their IT department to serve up letters to have students cough up money for file sharing.
Laptop bans are stupid.
I understand cell phones simply because they are communications appliances.. sure, people can wreck into utility polls at 80mph while getting maybe... 90WPM saying, "I haz good time last night 
Just all in all.. universities need to re-evaluate other factors than the assumption of a student's attention span that might be sinking the ship.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425694</id>
	<title>I have a suggestion</title>
	<author>Ricken</author>
	<datestamp>1268234280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why don't they just make sure the students can't get a wireless connection in the class rooms? Shouldn't be too hard, I heard there are wallpapers that can do that these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't they just make sure the students ca n't get a wireless connection in the class rooms ?
Should n't be too hard , I heard there are wallpapers that can do that these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't they just make sure the students can't get a wireless connection in the class rooms?
Shouldn't be too hard, I heard there are wallpapers that can do that these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31430506</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>newcastlejon</author>
	<datestamp>1268213400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN.  They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful.  That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.</p></div><p>Speak for yourself! In high school I sat there bored because I was forced to learn about subjects that had neither practical nor any interest at all, I came to university and chose a subject that I found interesting. Calculus may have been dry and mechanics may have been (still is) difficult but they're both still interesting. If anything, the only part so far that has bored me has been the 'Professional Development' BS that businesses want us to learn: seems like everyone has to have the same "we're all special" wishy-washy, touchy-feely PHB mindset.</p><p>My attitude is if you don't find it interesting then why are you studying it? If you're doing a degree simply because you want a well-paid job out of it then you can just fuck off to the Business/Law school with the rest of them*. Art students may be a bit flakey, but at least they're there because they enjoy the subject.</p><p>*My apologies to people who are actually interested in law, but you seem to be surrounded by utter cocks and it's hard to tell you apart. (Even if you aren't wearing Ug boots or a body warmer/plaid combo)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>//</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When it comes down to it , this is n't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN .
They are boring as hell , but incredibly useful .
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Speak for yourself !
In high school I sat there bored because I was forced to learn about subjects that had neither practical nor any interest at all , I came to university and chose a subject that I found interesting .
Calculus may have been dry and mechanics may have been ( still is ) difficult but they 're both still interesting .
If anything , the only part so far that has bored me has been the 'Professional Development ' BS that businesses want us to learn : seems like everyone has to have the same " we 're all special " wishy-washy , touchy-feely PHB mindset.My attitude is if you do n't find it interesting then why are you studying it ?
If you 're doing a degree simply because you want a well-paid job out of it then you can just fuck off to the Business/Law school with the rest of them * .
Art students may be a bit flakey , but at least they 're there because they enjoy the subject .
* My apologies to people who are actually interested in law , but you seem to be surrounded by utter cocks and it 's hard to tell you apart .
( Even if you are n't wearing Ug boots or a body warmer/plaid combo ) //</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When it comes down to it, this isn't high school anymore and many of the topics you learn in college are NOT FUN TO LEARN.
They are boring as hell, but incredibly useful.
That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.Speak for yourself!
In high school I sat there bored because I was forced to learn about subjects that had neither practical nor any interest at all, I came to university and chose a subject that I found interesting.
Calculus may have been dry and mechanics may have been (still is) difficult but they're both still interesting.
If anything, the only part so far that has bored me has been the 'Professional Development' BS that businesses want us to learn: seems like everyone has to have the same "we're all special" wishy-washy, touchy-feely PHB mindset.My attitude is if you don't find it interesting then why are you studying it?
If you're doing a degree simply because you want a well-paid job out of it then you can just fuck off to the Business/Law school with the rest of them*.
Art students may be a bit flakey, but at least they're there because they enjoy the subject.
*My apologies to people who are actually interested in law, but you seem to be surrounded by utter cocks and it's hard to tell you apart.
(Even if you aren't wearing Ug boots or a body warmer/plaid combo) //
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31440300</id>
	<title>Ban The Brain</title>
	<author>jman.org</author>
	<datestamp>1268332080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As an approach to solving a problem, this one uses a sledgehammer where a scalpel would be more effective.
<br> <br>
Want to keep students from surfing/twittering/ewe-tubing/etc. while in class?  DISABLE THEIR WIFI.  It would cost a few bucks to shield the classrooms, but easily doable.
<br> <br>
Worried about students "typing a lecture verbatim"?  Surely at least one professor out there is old enough to remember shorthand.
<br> <br>
This is the same old, tired story, blaming the tool for its use.  The true problem is the worker-bee/lazy oaf cycle that human generations always go through.  We're in the former now.  We'll be back on track in a bit.
<br> <br>
Which is NOT to say, of course that ALL students are lazy!  It's just the general pattern of the generational cycle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As an approach to solving a problem , this one uses a sledgehammer where a scalpel would be more effective .
Want to keep students from surfing/twittering/ewe-tubing/etc .
while in class ?
DISABLE THEIR WIFI .
It would cost a few bucks to shield the classrooms , but easily doable .
Worried about students " typing a lecture verbatim " ?
Surely at least one professor out there is old enough to remember shorthand .
This is the same old , tired story , blaming the tool for its use .
The true problem is the worker-bee/lazy oaf cycle that human generations always go through .
We 're in the former now .
We 'll be back on track in a bit .
Which is NOT to say , of course that ALL students are lazy !
It 's just the general pattern of the generational cycle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an approach to solving a problem, this one uses a sledgehammer where a scalpel would be more effective.
Want to keep students from surfing/twittering/ewe-tubing/etc.
while in class?
DISABLE THEIR WIFI.
It would cost a few bucks to shield the classrooms, but easily doable.
Worried about students "typing a lecture verbatim"?
Surely at least one professor out there is old enough to remember shorthand.
This is the same old, tired story, blaming the tool for its use.
The true problem is the worker-bee/lazy oaf cycle that human generations always go through.
We're in the former now.
We'll be back on track in a bit.
Which is NOT to say, of course that ALL students are lazy!
It's just the general pattern of the generational cycle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425540</id>
	<title>Stupid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is stupid right from the basic premise, and probably the entirely wrong reaction to what is probably just crappy teaching / lectures.</p><p>What do students need to be good with later? Where is all the knowledge? Paper or a computer?</p><p>Learning doesn't equal "writing down" stuff. Writing things down can be done very mechanically. You need to challenge people to understand things, and question the correctness of their understanding, in order to teach. No, that also doesn't specifically mean asking a question, but more like giving them problems, the approach to these problems, and then similar problems to solve. Better yet, try to do it in a way that makes using a computer efficient and right and as illustrative as possible, and as EFFICIENT as possible (simulate actual business settings), and you might have an involved audience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is stupid right from the basic premise , and probably the entirely wrong reaction to what is probably just crappy teaching / lectures.What do students need to be good with later ?
Where is all the knowledge ?
Paper or a computer ? Learning does n't equal " writing down " stuff .
Writing things down can be done very mechanically .
You need to challenge people to understand things , and question the correctness of their understanding , in order to teach .
No , that also does n't specifically mean asking a question , but more like giving them problems , the approach to these problems , and then similar problems to solve .
Better yet , try to do it in a way that makes using a computer efficient and right and as illustrative as possible , and as EFFICIENT as possible ( simulate actual business settings ) , and you might have an involved audience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is stupid right from the basic premise, and probably the entirely wrong reaction to what is probably just crappy teaching / lectures.What do students need to be good with later?
Where is all the knowledge?
Paper or a computer?Learning doesn't equal "writing down" stuff.
Writing things down can be done very mechanically.
You need to challenge people to understand things, and question the correctness of their understanding, in order to teach.
No, that also doesn't specifically mean asking a question, but more like giving them problems, the approach to these problems, and then similar problems to solve.
Better yet, try to do it in a way that makes using a computer efficient and right and as illustrative as possible, and as EFFICIENT as possible (simulate actual business settings), and you might have an involved audience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425158</id>
	<title>Loop-hole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268231460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would simply record the lecture and then transcribe it later on.  Ha ha ha ha!  That'll show them!</p><p>Oh wait....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would simply record the lecture and then transcribe it later on .
Ha ha ha ha !
That 'll show them ! Oh wait... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would simply record the lecture and then transcribe it later on.
Ha ha ha ha!
That'll show them!Oh wait....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426088</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268236440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sit up front.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sit up front .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sit up front.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426074</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1268236380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas.</i></p><p>They're not paying to hear the professors' ideas, they're paying to obtain the professors' knowledge and insight. The ideas are for research, not education..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , students are paying to hear your ideas.They 're not paying to hear the professors ' ideas , they 're paying to obtain the professors ' knowledge and insight .
The ideas are for research , not education. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas.They're not paying to hear the professors' ideas, they're paying to obtain the professors' knowledge and insight.
The ideas are for research, not education..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427144</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off."</p><p>Or: I've been told that the majority of my students are fully paid through financial aid. (i.e., Loans that come due at some arbitrarily far point in the future.) Changes the dynamic a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's either your money , in which case it is your problem ; or your parent 's money , in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off .
" Or : I 've been told that the majority of my students are fully paid through financial aid .
( i.e. , Loans that come due at some arbitrarily far point in the future .
) Changes the dynamic a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's either your money, in which case it is your problem; or your parent's money, in which case they can always scream at you or cut you off.
"Or: I've been told that the majority of my students are fully paid through financial aid.
(i.e., Loans that come due at some arbitrarily far point in the future.
) Changes the dynamic a lot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425620</id>
	<title>What is this? High School?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not the professor's job to make sure I pay attention in class. It's my dime. If I don't pay attention, and fail - it's my fault. I should have been paying attention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not the professor 's job to make sure I pay attention in class .
It 's my dime .
If I do n't pay attention , and fail - it 's my fault .
I should have been paying attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not the professor's job to make sure I pay attention in class.
It's my dime.
If I don't pay attention, and fail - it's my fault.
I should have been paying attention.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427710</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What ever happened to personal accountability? If someone is tapping their pencil on their desk and it's annoying the crap out of you, you'd ask them to stop. If someone is distracting you with whatever shiny application you happen to see on their screen, SAY SOMETHING. Make them aware that their behavior is disruptive. Complaining about a situation without taking any action, or wishing someone else would take care of it is just contributing. Either take action or quit whining.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ever happened to personal accountability ?
If someone is tapping their pencil on their desk and it 's annoying the crap out of you , you 'd ask them to stop .
If someone is distracting you with whatever shiny application you happen to see on their screen , SAY SOMETHING .
Make them aware that their behavior is disruptive .
Complaining about a situation without taking any action , or wishing someone else would take care of it is just contributing .
Either take action or quit whining .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What ever happened to personal accountability?
If someone is tapping their pencil on their desk and it's annoying the crap out of you, you'd ask them to stop.
If someone is distracting you with whatever shiny application you happen to see on their screen, SAY SOMETHING.
Make them aware that their behavior is disruptive.
Complaining about a situation without taking any action, or wishing someone else would take care of it is just contributing.
Either take action or quit whining.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426002</id>
	<title>my take is...</title>
	<author>Xenious</author>
	<datestamp>1268236020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For high school, sure limit what they can use.  For college, dang man STFU.  These "kids" are actually adults paying to be in your class.  Let them take notes however they want.  If they surf or game instead of note taking then that is their loss and will reflect their grades.  I suspect these are not core classes and more like requirements or electives that the students don't really want to be in to begin with.</p><p>I'm still not sure why all these professors want to act like draconian high school teachers.  What are they going to give some detention next and have them bang chalk dust out of erasers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For high school , sure limit what they can use .
For college , dang man STFU .
These " kids " are actually adults paying to be in your class .
Let them take notes however they want .
If they surf or game instead of note taking then that is their loss and will reflect their grades .
I suspect these are not core classes and more like requirements or electives that the students do n't really want to be in to begin with.I 'm still not sure why all these professors want to act like draconian high school teachers .
What are they going to give some detention next and have them bang chalk dust out of erasers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For high school, sure limit what they can use.
For college, dang man STFU.
These "kids" are actually adults paying to be in your class.
Let them take notes however they want.
If they surf or game instead of note taking then that is their loss and will reflect their grades.
I suspect these are not core classes and more like requirements or electives that the students don't really want to be in to begin with.I'm still not sure why all these professors want to act like draconian high school teachers.
What are they going to give some detention next and have them bang chalk dust out of erasers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425574</id>
	<title>Not everyone learns the same!</title>
	<author>Drethon</author>
	<datestamp>1268233500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now I know that not everyone will agree with this because I don't think there are that many people that learn like me (feel free to surprise me).<br>
<br>
I don't learn everything by just sitting and paying attention to the professor.  I tried this at the beginning of college and just managed to fry my brain (that or the 5 class, 18 credit hour semesters, yuck).  Over time I found that I learned best by picking up the major points during class and reading the books on those points later to help solidify the important points.<br>
<br>
I actually do this by playing computer games while I'm in class.  The computer games prevent me from completely zoning out but leave enough concentration left to pick up the major points.<br>
<br>
I am a Computer Engineer with a 3.35 GPA in my BSE and a 4.0 with one class and a Thesis left in my graduate studies.  Since college I've worked for six years now developing DO-178 level B embedded avionics software fairly successfully.<br>
<br>
Computer games in class seem to benefit me.  If any professor told me I couldn't take my laptop to class I'd tell them I'll be taking another class...<br>
<br>
Just my bent $0.02</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now I know that not everyone will agree with this because I do n't think there are that many people that learn like me ( feel free to surprise me ) .
I do n't learn everything by just sitting and paying attention to the professor .
I tried this at the beginning of college and just managed to fry my brain ( that or the 5 class , 18 credit hour semesters , yuck ) .
Over time I found that I learned best by picking up the major points during class and reading the books on those points later to help solidify the important points .
I actually do this by playing computer games while I 'm in class .
The computer games prevent me from completely zoning out but leave enough concentration left to pick up the major points .
I am a Computer Engineer with a 3.35 GPA in my BSE and a 4.0 with one class and a Thesis left in my graduate studies .
Since college I 've worked for six years now developing DO-178 level B embedded avionics software fairly successfully .
Computer games in class seem to benefit me .
If any professor told me I could n't take my laptop to class I 'd tell them I 'll be taking another class.. . Just my bent $ 0.02</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now I know that not everyone will agree with this because I don't think there are that many people that learn like me (feel free to surprise me).
I don't learn everything by just sitting and paying attention to the professor.
I tried this at the beginning of college and just managed to fry my brain (that or the 5 class, 18 credit hour semesters, yuck).
Over time I found that I learned best by picking up the major points during class and reading the books on those points later to help solidify the important points.
I actually do this by playing computer games while I'm in class.
The computer games prevent me from completely zoning out but leave enough concentration left to pick up the major points.
I am a Computer Engineer with a 3.35 GPA in my BSE and a 4.0 with one class and a Thesis left in my graduate studies.
Since college I've worked for six years now developing DO-178 level B embedded avionics software fairly successfully.
Computer games in class seem to benefit me.
If any professor told me I couldn't take my laptop to class I'd tell them I'll be taking another class...

Just my bent $0.02</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426770</id>
	<title>Liek ther eparents did?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1268239440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you mean, with a laptop?<br>I know someone in 85 that used one of those TRS typing things for notes.</p><p>Here's a link... wow, a blast from the past. Also, I seem to have gotten old some how.<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80\_Model\_100\_line" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80\_Model\_100\_line</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>of course, it's application was severely limited. This is why I just bought my notes from across the street.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you mean , with a laptop ? I know someone in 85 that used one of those TRS typing things for notes.Here 's a link... wow , a blast from the past .
Also , I seem to have gotten old some how.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80 \ _Model \ _100 \ _line [ wikipedia.org ] of course , it 's application was severely limited .
This is why I just bought my notes from across the street .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you mean, with a laptop?I know someone in 85 that used one of those TRS typing things for notes.Here's a link... wow, a blast from the past.
Also, I seem to have gotten old some how.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80\_Model\_100\_line [wikipedia.org]of course, it's application was severely limited.
This is why I just bought my notes from across the street.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31436792</id>
	<title>this doesn't need a subject but one is required</title>
	<author>dgposey</author>
	<datestamp>1268318640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a recent comp sci grad and I went the entire time through college taking notes with pen and paper, as did everybody else at my college.  I pulled out my laptop once in a comp sci class and got strange looks...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a recent comp sci grad and I went the entire time through college taking notes with pen and paper , as did everybody else at my college .
I pulled out my laptop once in a comp sci class and got strange looks.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a recent comp sci grad and I went the entire time through college taking notes with pen and paper, as did everybody else at my college.
I pulled out my laptop once in a comp sci class and got strange looks...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425322</id>
	<title>Simple economics</title>
	<author>pays-vert</author>
	<datestamp>1268232360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The vast majority of students are not "paying for their education".  Either the state or their parents are.  And these paying customers (not the students) generally want value for money, meaning they want to see students come out of the sausage factory with something worthwhile to show for it.

Colleges respond to their customers, by finding ways to make students learn.  Hence, banning laptops in class (which based on my experience is eminently sensible and can easily be worked around for those students who genuinely need them).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The vast majority of students are not " paying for their education " .
Either the state or their parents are .
And these paying customers ( not the students ) generally want value for money , meaning they want to see students come out of the sausage factory with something worthwhile to show for it .
Colleges respond to their customers , by finding ways to make students learn .
Hence , banning laptops in class ( which based on my experience is eminently sensible and can easily be worked around for those students who genuinely need them ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vast majority of students are not "paying for their education".
Either the state or their parents are.
And these paying customers (not the students) generally want value for money, meaning they want to see students come out of the sausage factory with something worthwhile to show for it.
Colleges respond to their customers, by finding ways to make students learn.
Hence, banning laptops in class (which based on my experience is eminently sensible and can easily be worked around for those students who genuinely need them).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435334</id>
	<title>The best profession since dictator</title>
	<author>Modern Primate</author>
	<datestamp>1268340540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Being a professor is one of the few professions where you get to charge someone for something and then act like you're the boss.  They seem to forget that they are being paid by the student.  If the student chooses to sit in the room and ignore the professor, it's the student's (or the parents') money that's being wasted, not the professor's.  Imagine hiring a plumber who insisted on this level of authority.

As long as it's not something that makes noise or is otherwise obtrusive to the other students, the professor should have nothing to say about it.  Ultimately this is just an ego trip on the part of the professor.  Nothing more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a professor is one of the few professions where you get to charge someone for something and then act like you 're the boss .
They seem to forget that they are being paid by the student .
If the student chooses to sit in the room and ignore the professor , it 's the student 's ( or the parents ' ) money that 's being wasted , not the professor 's .
Imagine hiring a plumber who insisted on this level of authority .
As long as it 's not something that makes noise or is otherwise obtrusive to the other students , the professor should have nothing to say about it .
Ultimately this is just an ego trip on the part of the professor .
Nothing more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a professor is one of the few professions where you get to charge someone for something and then act like you're the boss.
They seem to forget that they are being paid by the student.
If the student chooses to sit in the room and ignore the professor, it's the student's (or the parents') money that's being wasted, not the professor's.
Imagine hiring a plumber who insisted on this level of authority.
As long as it's not something that makes noise or is otherwise obtrusive to the other students, the professor should have nothing to say about it.
Ultimately this is just an ego trip on the part of the professor.
Nothing more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431044</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268215980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, that's me. Then again, I'm a lecturer...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , that 's me .
Then again , I 'm a lecturer.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, that's me.
Then again, I'm a lecturer...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427154</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>BrokenHalo</author>
	<datestamp>1268240940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In most science degree courses, you can pretty much guarantee that the student with the laptop open is the student who isn't paying attention to the lecturer. The old pen/pencil and paper technique is much faster and more efficient for rapid note-taking where any kind of symbols or diagrammatic content are prevalent.<br> <br>
Most of my fellow students were well aware of this, but occasionally there would be some dick trying to show off. My profs were on the whole fairly laid-back about this, occasionally letting slip the odd choice remark about Facebook, or pausing to say "you got all that?". After all, it wasn't their problem if the student failed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In most science degree courses , you can pretty much guarantee that the student with the laptop open is the student who is n't paying attention to the lecturer .
The old pen/pencil and paper technique is much faster and more efficient for rapid note-taking where any kind of symbols or diagrammatic content are prevalent .
Most of my fellow students were well aware of this , but occasionally there would be some dick trying to show off .
My profs were on the whole fairly laid-back about this , occasionally letting slip the odd choice remark about Facebook , or pausing to say " you got all that ? " .
After all , it was n't their problem if the student failed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most science degree courses, you can pretty much guarantee that the student with the laptop open is the student who isn't paying attention to the lecturer.
The old pen/pencil and paper technique is much faster and more efficient for rapid note-taking where any kind of symbols or diagrammatic content are prevalent.
Most of my fellow students were well aware of this, but occasionally there would be some dick trying to show off.
My profs were on the whole fairly laid-back about this, occasionally letting slip the odd choice remark about Facebook, or pausing to say "you got all that?".
After all, it wasn't their problem if the student failed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425470</id>
	<title>Most clases don't adapt well to laptop notes</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1268233080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are very few affordable programs that are worth anything for writing down things like mathematical equations, chemical reactions, physical diagrams, electrical circuits, etc.  I tried taking notes on my laptop one year in undergrad and found that the only class where that was the least bit useful was history, but even there it was debatable.  The smart student knows that pen-and-paper notes are cheaper, lighter, more flexible, and never run out of batteries.<br> <br>
That said, the professors would probably be just as well to let the students figure this out the hard way.  I've never been in a class where it mattered how many people the professor flunked based on poor test scores.  And then later on those students will be writing in online forums about how foolish it was for them to try to take notes on their laptop...</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are very few affordable programs that are worth anything for writing down things like mathematical equations , chemical reactions , physical diagrams , electrical circuits , etc .
I tried taking notes on my laptop one year in undergrad and found that the only class where that was the least bit useful was history , but even there it was debatable .
The smart student knows that pen-and-paper notes are cheaper , lighter , more flexible , and never run out of batteries .
That said , the professors would probably be just as well to let the students figure this out the hard way .
I 've never been in a class where it mattered how many people the professor flunked based on poor test scores .
And then later on those students will be writing in online forums about how foolish it was for them to try to take notes on their laptop.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are very few affordable programs that are worth anything for writing down things like mathematical equations, chemical reactions, physical diagrams, electrical circuits, etc.
I tried taking notes on my laptop one year in undergrad and found that the only class where that was the least bit useful was history, but even there it was debatable.
The smart student knows that pen-and-paper notes are cheaper, lighter, more flexible, and never run out of batteries.
That said, the professors would probably be just as well to let the students figure this out the hard way.
I've never been in a class where it mattered how many people the professor flunked based on poor test scores.
And then later on those students will be writing in online forums about how foolish it was for them to try to take notes on their laptop...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426118</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>godrik</author>
	<datestamp>1268236560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are right. Students vary a lot from one year to the other (at least in France). And they may need details or more time to get it on different aspects every year. As a lecturer, you need to understand from the audience by watching their reaction. And I think it would be more difficult with students writing on laptops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are right .
Students vary a lot from one year to the other ( at least in France ) .
And they may need details or more time to get it on different aspects every year .
As a lecturer , you need to understand from the audience by watching their reaction .
And I think it would be more difficult with students writing on laptops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are right.
Students vary a lot from one year to the other (at least in France).
And they may need details or more time to get it on different aspects every year.
As a lecturer, you need to understand from the audience by watching their reaction.
And I think it would be more difficult with students writing on laptops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426026</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268236140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem isn't so much that lectures are boring as it is that many professors (especially the ones who do lecture hall size classes) give completely pointless and/or irrelevant lectures which have nothing to do with what you're going to be tested on.</p><p>I have a history professor right now who does nothing but ramble on and on about all the papers he's written and all the time he's spent digging through old books. Meanwhile, the actual subject matter of the course (American Foreign Policy) gets ignored. I had the first exam in that class a week ago, and all of the questions were taken directly from the book.</p><p>Around a third of the people who attend those lectures (many don't even bother) have laptops out and are on Facebook, on Twitter, or in a few cases using the wifi to host Starcraft games.</p><p>The moral to this is that if you want students to pay attention to your lecture, you have to make it relevant to what they're going to be tested on. Otherwise, you might as well not even bother.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is n't so much that lectures are boring as it is that many professors ( especially the ones who do lecture hall size classes ) give completely pointless and/or irrelevant lectures which have nothing to do with what you 're going to be tested on.I have a history professor right now who does nothing but ramble on and on about all the papers he 's written and all the time he 's spent digging through old books .
Meanwhile , the actual subject matter of the course ( American Foreign Policy ) gets ignored .
I had the first exam in that class a week ago , and all of the questions were taken directly from the book.Around a third of the people who attend those lectures ( many do n't even bother ) have laptops out and are on Facebook , on Twitter , or in a few cases using the wifi to host Starcraft games.The moral to this is that if you want students to pay attention to your lecture , you have to make it relevant to what they 're going to be tested on .
Otherwise , you might as well not even bother .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem isn't so much that lectures are boring as it is that many professors (especially the ones who do lecture hall size classes) give completely pointless and/or irrelevant lectures which have nothing to do with what you're going to be tested on.I have a history professor right now who does nothing but ramble on and on about all the papers he's written and all the time he's spent digging through old books.
Meanwhile, the actual subject matter of the course (American Foreign Policy) gets ignored.
I had the first exam in that class a week ago, and all of the questions were taken directly from the book.Around a third of the people who attend those lectures (many don't even bother) have laptops out and are on Facebook, on Twitter, or in a few cases using the wifi to host Starcraft games.The moral to this is that if you want students to pay attention to your lecture, you have to make it relevant to what they're going to be tested on.
Otherwise, you might as well not even bother.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427640</id>
	<title>For a (slightly) more developed take:</title>
	<author>ThousandStars</author>
	<datestamp>1268243160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>See my post, <a href="http://jseliger.com/2008/12/28/laptops-students-distraction-hardly-a-surprise/" title="jseliger.com">Students, Laptops, and Distraction: Hardly a Surprise</a> [jseliger.com], in which I link to a bunch of articles dealing with some of the research and ideas behind technological distraction (and how it differs from doodling in the margins). I'm a grad student in English at the University of Arizona consequently have to face the laptop/no laptop issue in writing classes and decided on the "no laptop" side, as explained at the link.

<p>(A quick rebuttal of the predictable hit-n-run commenters: this doesn't mean I think every professor/teacher should ban laptops or that laptops are bad in other circumstances. I know that <em>you</em> don't misuse your laptop, and that such a policy is unfair to have the majority behavior dictate rules affecting the minority like you, but I talk about that stuff at the link.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See my post , Students , Laptops , and Distraction : Hardly a Surprise [ jseliger.com ] , in which I link to a bunch of articles dealing with some of the research and ideas behind technological distraction ( and how it differs from doodling in the margins ) .
I 'm a grad student in English at the University of Arizona consequently have to face the laptop/no laptop issue in writing classes and decided on the " no laptop " side , as explained at the link .
( A quick rebuttal of the predictable hit-n-run commenters : this does n't mean I think every professor/teacher should ban laptops or that laptops are bad in other circumstances .
I know that you do n't misuse your laptop , and that such a policy is unfair to have the majority behavior dictate rules affecting the minority like you , but I talk about that stuff at the link .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See my post, Students, Laptops, and Distraction: Hardly a Surprise [jseliger.com], in which I link to a bunch of articles dealing with some of the research and ideas behind technological distraction (and how it differs from doodling in the margins).
I'm a grad student in English at the University of Arizona consequently have to face the laptop/no laptop issue in writing classes and decided on the "no laptop" side, as explained at the link.
(A quick rebuttal of the predictable hit-n-run commenters: this doesn't mean I think every professor/teacher should ban laptops or that laptops are bad in other circumstances.
I know that you don't misuse your laptop, and that such a policy is unfair to have the majority behavior dictate rules affecting the minority like you, but I talk about that stuff at the link.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31435574</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>unitron</author>
	<datestamp>1268300580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What brand and model number is this portable reel to reel tape recorder of which you speak?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What brand and model number is this portable reel to reel tape recorder of which you speak ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What brand and model number is this portable reel to reel tape recorder of which you speak?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428942</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427576</id>
	<title>News Flash</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268242800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The really real world is a hostile environment, get used to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The really real world is a hostile environment , get used to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The really real world is a hostile environment, get used to it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427916</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree.  I am a college professor and I (and I believe most professors) consider teaching as part of my job and not just lecturing to an empty class.  I want my students to learn and I go to lengths to try to present the material in a way they will remember.  With that said, we also tend to put more responsibility on the student to learn and take the initiative than at the HS level.  However, professors do feel like they're putting on a show when they lecture to just keep the students looking at them.  Nothing is more disheartening to teach a class where the students won't respond no matter what you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
I am a college professor and I ( and I believe most professors ) consider teaching as part of my job and not just lecturing to an empty class .
I want my students to learn and I go to lengths to try to present the material in a way they will remember .
With that said , we also tend to put more responsibility on the student to learn and take the initiative than at the HS level .
However , professors do feel like they 're putting on a show when they lecture to just keep the students looking at them .
Nothing is more disheartening to teach a class where the students wo n't respond no matter what you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
I am a college professor and I (and I believe most professors) consider teaching as part of my job and not just lecturing to an empty class.
I want my students to learn and I go to lengths to try to present the material in a way they will remember.
With that said, we also tend to put more responsibility on the student to learn and take the initiative than at the HS level.
However, professors do feel like they're putting on a show when they lecture to just keep the students looking at them.
Nothing is more disheartening to teach a class where the students won't respond no matter what you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429100</id>
	<title>A Calma do prof. Luiz Mauro</title>
	<author>johnrpenner</author>
	<datestamp>1268250180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is what they do with cellphones in class now...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwv8rXb3ha0" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwv8rXb3ha0</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is what they do with cellphones in class now... ; - ) http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = hwv8rXb3ha0 [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is what they do with cellphones in class now... ;-)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwv8rXb3ha0 [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429202</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268250540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This.</p><p>I'm a first year student at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/" title="rit.edu" rel="nofollow">RIT</a> [rit.edu]. Of course it would be completely absurd to ban laptops in a school like this, but here's my thought on the matter: if you want to screw yourself out of your education, do it. Yay, more job opportunities for me. A fellow named Darwin called it "natural selection."</p><p>I spent the entire "Cyber Self Defense" (in other words, cyberbullshit) class first quarter playing SuperTux on my netbook-from-before-the-netbook-era. Pulled off an A in the class simply because I gave the politically correct answers to all the test questions (thankfully they didn't try to talk about copyright law, the DMCA, what have you), shat out a paper with a ridiculously oversimplified topic, and in general made it look like I was participating. In reality, I didn't give two shits about the class, and I already knew the stuff. The kicker was attendance credit, which we were told would make or break our grade.</p><p>The point is, did I master the material so that I might be better prepared for future classes? Yup. So as long as I'm not being disruptive to others, who is being harmed here? I'm an adult, and should be trusted to make judgments as to whether a certain behavior will be dangerous to my academic success or not. If I consistently make the wrong decision, I should deal with the consequences for it: trouble getting a co-op/first job, disfavor in selection processes for future elective classes, et cetera.</p><p>At the same time, all three of my math classes thus far have seen the extensive use of my computer for note-taking purposes. In classes where I need to learn, it's my right hand; in classes I don't need to pay attention to, it keeps me from dozing off (sometimes, at least).</p><p>As a professor... if a student was disrupting the class for others, I'd ask them to leave the class, and after three or four episodes I'd probably fail them for the course. But if they're only hurting themselves, who am I to stop them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This.I 'm a first year student at RIT [ rit.edu ] .
Of course it would be completely absurd to ban laptops in a school like this , but here 's my thought on the matter : if you want to screw yourself out of your education , do it .
Yay , more job opportunities for me .
A fellow named Darwin called it " natural selection .
" I spent the entire " Cyber Self Defense " ( in other words , cyberbullshit ) class first quarter playing SuperTux on my netbook-from-before-the-netbook-era .
Pulled off an A in the class simply because I gave the politically correct answers to all the test questions ( thankfully they did n't try to talk about copyright law , the DMCA , what have you ) , shat out a paper with a ridiculously oversimplified topic , and in general made it look like I was participating .
In reality , I did n't give two shits about the class , and I already knew the stuff .
The kicker was attendance credit , which we were told would make or break our grade.The point is , did I master the material so that I might be better prepared for future classes ?
Yup. So as long as I 'm not being disruptive to others , who is being harmed here ?
I 'm an adult , and should be trusted to make judgments as to whether a certain behavior will be dangerous to my academic success or not .
If I consistently make the wrong decision , I should deal with the consequences for it : trouble getting a co-op/first job , disfavor in selection processes for future elective classes , et cetera.At the same time , all three of my math classes thus far have seen the extensive use of my computer for note-taking purposes .
In classes where I need to learn , it 's my right hand ; in classes I do n't need to pay attention to , it keeps me from dozing off ( sometimes , at least ) .As a professor... if a student was disrupting the class for others , I 'd ask them to leave the class , and after three or four episodes I 'd probably fail them for the course .
But if they 're only hurting themselves , who am I to stop them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This.I'm a first year student at RIT [rit.edu].
Of course it would be completely absurd to ban laptops in a school like this, but here's my thought on the matter: if you want to screw yourself out of your education, do it.
Yay, more job opportunities for me.
A fellow named Darwin called it "natural selection.
"I spent the entire "Cyber Self Defense" (in other words, cyberbullshit) class first quarter playing SuperTux on my netbook-from-before-the-netbook-era.
Pulled off an A in the class simply because I gave the politically correct answers to all the test questions (thankfully they didn't try to talk about copyright law, the DMCA, what have you), shat out a paper with a ridiculously oversimplified topic, and in general made it look like I was participating.
In reality, I didn't give two shits about the class, and I already knew the stuff.
The kicker was attendance credit, which we were told would make or break our grade.The point is, did I master the material so that I might be better prepared for future classes?
Yup. So as long as I'm not being disruptive to others, who is being harmed here?
I'm an adult, and should be trusted to make judgments as to whether a certain behavior will be dangerous to my academic success or not.
If I consistently make the wrong decision, I should deal with the consequences for it: trouble getting a co-op/first job, disfavor in selection processes for future elective classes, et cetera.At the same time, all three of my math classes thus far have seen the extensive use of my computer for note-taking purposes.
In classes where I need to learn, it's my right hand; in classes I don't need to pay attention to, it keeps me from dozing off (sometimes, at least).As a professor... if a student was disrupting the class for others, I'd ask them to leave the class, and after three or four episodes I'd probably fail them for the course.
But if they're only hurting themselves, who am I to stop them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31453888</id>
	<title>Re:Note taking isn't stenography</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1268420100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Note-taking is an archaic remnant from when there were no textbooks or other easily accessible material to study from. Taking notes was the only way to ensure that stuff sticked. Having the freedom to fully concentrate on the presentation is always more effective than taking notes, which will likely be less useful than reading the relative parts of the textbook or the professor's material (if he provides them of course)<br>If the course is slow-paced then it may not make much difference however. Plus some people say they need to take notes to stay awake.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note-taking is an archaic remnant from when there were no textbooks or other easily accessible material to study from .
Taking notes was the only way to ensure that stuff sticked .
Having the freedom to fully concentrate on the presentation is always more effective than taking notes , which will likely be less useful than reading the relative parts of the textbook or the professor 's material ( if he provides them of course ) If the course is slow-paced then it may not make much difference however .
Plus some people say they need to take notes to stay awake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note-taking is an archaic remnant from when there were no textbooks or other easily accessible material to study from.
Taking notes was the only way to ensure that stuff sticked.
Having the freedom to fully concentrate on the presentation is always more effective than taking notes, which will likely be less useful than reading the relative parts of the textbook or the professor's material (if he provides them of course)If the course is slow-paced then it may not make much difference however.
Plus some people say they need to take notes to stay awake.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425332</id>
	<title>No problem</title>
	<author>kiehlster</author>
	<datestamp>1268232420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My Laptop purchase was delayed so long because of Chinese labor shortages that I won't have a laptop until the end of the regular college school year.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My Laptop purchase was delayed so long because of Chinese labor shortages that I wo n't have a laptop until the end of the regular college school year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Laptop purchase was delayed so long because of Chinese labor shortages that I won't have a laptop until the end of the regular college school year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426104</id>
	<title>There is no motivation to be a better teacher</title>
	<author>bingbong</author>
	<datestamp>1268236500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is professors aren't hired for their teaching ability, or even their English as a First Language skills.</p><p>Profs are hired because of the potential for additional funding through research. Many pawn off the actual teaching to their life bonded serfs (PhD students).</p><p>When I was a grad student my prof (and a lot of others) saw the lectures as a distraction to their "real work" (research).</p><p>Furthermore, given that profs are 'evaluated' by their schools by the number of papers published (and in what journals) and the amount of funding they can bring in, there is little to no motivation to teach.</p><p>Thankfully, there are a few out there who love teaching, but the rest, it's a necessary evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , the reality of the situation is professors are n't hired for their teaching ability , or even their English as a First Language skills.Profs are hired because of the potential for additional funding through research .
Many pawn off the actual teaching to their life bonded serfs ( PhD students ) .When I was a grad student my prof ( and a lot of others ) saw the lectures as a distraction to their " real work " ( research ) .Furthermore , given that profs are 'evaluated ' by their schools by the number of papers published ( and in what journals ) and the amount of funding they can bring in , there is little to no motivation to teach.Thankfully , there are a few out there who love teaching , but the rest , it 's a necessary evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is professors aren't hired for their teaching ability, or even their English as a First Language skills.Profs are hired because of the potential for additional funding through research.
Many pawn off the actual teaching to their life bonded serfs (PhD students).When I was a grad student my prof (and a lot of others) saw the lectures as a distraction to their "real work" (research).Furthermore, given that profs are 'evaluated' by their schools by the number of papers published (and in what journals) and the amount of funding they can bring in, there is little to no motivation to teach.Thankfully, there are a few out there who love teaching, but the rest, it's a necessary evil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429282</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268250960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Worse yet, it's the professor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Worse yet , it 's the professor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Worse yet, it's the professor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425494</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Ihmhi</author>
	<datestamp>1268233200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well on the one hand, you are paying good money to learn at their institution. It shouldn't be their damn business whether or not you even show up to class, much less use a laptop to take your notes.</p><p>On the other hand, if, say, a large percentage of their students didn't graduate, I'm sure that they would have a bit of difficulty filling their roles in the following years as well as raising money for new facilities and whatnot.</p><p>It's a very fine balancing act between the students' need for freedom and the school's need to, well, survive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well on the one hand , you are paying good money to learn at their institution .
It should n't be their damn business whether or not you even show up to class , much less use a laptop to take your notes.On the other hand , if , say , a large percentage of their students did n't graduate , I 'm sure that they would have a bit of difficulty filling their roles in the following years as well as raising money for new facilities and whatnot.It 's a very fine balancing act between the students ' need for freedom and the school 's need to , well , survive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well on the one hand, you are paying good money to learn at their institution.
It shouldn't be their damn business whether or not you even show up to class, much less use a laptop to take your notes.On the other hand, if, say, a large percentage of their students didn't graduate, I'm sure that they would have a bit of difficulty filling their roles in the following years as well as raising money for new facilities and whatnot.It's a very fine balancing act between the students' need for freedom and the school's need to, well, survive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425480</id>
	<title>Witless stenographer</title>
	<author>The Fun Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1268233140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bah. I used pen and paper back before the invention of the laptop computer, and I was still a witless stenographer.</p><p>With bad handwriting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah .
I used pen and paper back before the invention of the laptop computer , and I was still a witless stenographer.With bad handwriting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah.
I used pen and paper back before the invention of the laptop computer, and I was still a witless stenographer.With bad handwriting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427008</id>
	<title>Re:Ban laptops or jam the Wi-Fi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.</p><p>So? University professors are not babysitter, nor parents. as long as they aren't actively distracting the class room you shouldn't care.</p><p>If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away, then so what? All that means is you can't give an interesting lecture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These days , the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.So ?
University professors are not babysitter , nor parents .
as long as they are n't actively distracting the class room you should n't care.If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away , then so what ?
All that means is you ca n't give an interesting lecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These days, the instructor has a bunch of laptop lids pointed in their direction and the students could be doing anything from dutifully taking notes to running their virtual mob to reading Slashdot.So?
University professors are not babysitter, nor parents.
as long as they aren't actively distracting the class room you shouldn't care.If I want to show up to class and listen t music while you blather away, then so what?
All that means is you can't give an interesting lecture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426252</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>godrik</author>
	<datestamp>1268237100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess it is also important to understand how professors are hired. They are hired by heir expertise and not by their taching skills. In fact they never have been taught how to teach.</p><p>By the way, I think at this age a student should be able to overcome the boreness of a teaching to understand what's behind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess it is also important to understand how professors are hired .
They are hired by heir expertise and not by their taching skills .
In fact they never have been taught how to teach.By the way , I think at this age a student should be able to overcome the boreness of a teaching to understand what 's behind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess it is also important to understand how professors are hired.
They are hired by heir expertise and not by their taching skills.
In fact they never have been taught how to teach.By the way, I think at this age a student should be able to overcome the boreness of a teaching to understand what's behind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428986</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268249580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with the whole situation is much more than "nannying," its a fundamental issue with how certain classes are taught. My laptop/cell phone use in class inevitably has a very clear cause-and-effect structure. If I'm in a class that I feel obligated to go to, because of attendance taking or required quizes or "this material isn't in the book!" but the class is still horribly boring, I'll end up trying to tune out the crap and then participate when it's useful; I end up playing tetris in my matlab class mor often than not.</p><p>On the other hand, when the professor takes away the need/ability to screw around on computers by actually changing the content and presentation of lectures, then this is a null argument. For example, in a film class that I'm currently taking, my laptop is indispensable for the wikipedia entries on movies mentioned, for taking quick notes, and for the ability to take notes in the dark (while a movie is playing.) Also, this class is structured in a way that everyone in the class is always engaged.</p><p>Banning laptops is a stopgap to the larger issue of inefficient classes and lectures, just like banning graphing calculators on tests (oh no you can put notes on the calculator! we can't have that!). Make lectures engaging, focus tests on understanding and application as opposed to rote memorization, and problem solved. I've been in classes where it's been done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with the whole situation is much more than " nannying , " its a fundamental issue with how certain classes are taught .
My laptop/cell phone use in class inevitably has a very clear cause-and-effect structure .
If I 'm in a class that I feel obligated to go to , because of attendance taking or required quizes or " this material is n't in the book !
" but the class is still horribly boring , I 'll end up trying to tune out the crap and then participate when it 's useful ; I end up playing tetris in my matlab class mor often than not.On the other hand , when the professor takes away the need/ability to screw around on computers by actually changing the content and presentation of lectures , then this is a null argument .
For example , in a film class that I 'm currently taking , my laptop is indispensable for the wikipedia entries on movies mentioned , for taking quick notes , and for the ability to take notes in the dark ( while a movie is playing .
) Also , this class is structured in a way that everyone in the class is always engaged.Banning laptops is a stopgap to the larger issue of inefficient classes and lectures , just like banning graphing calculators on tests ( oh no you can put notes on the calculator !
we ca n't have that ! ) .
Make lectures engaging , focus tests on understanding and application as opposed to rote memorization , and problem solved .
I 've been in classes where it 's been done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with the whole situation is much more than "nannying," its a fundamental issue with how certain classes are taught.
My laptop/cell phone use in class inevitably has a very clear cause-and-effect structure.
If I'm in a class that I feel obligated to go to, because of attendance taking or required quizes or "this material isn't in the book!
" but the class is still horribly boring, I'll end up trying to tune out the crap and then participate when it's useful; I end up playing tetris in my matlab class mor often than not.On the other hand, when the professor takes away the need/ability to screw around on computers by actually changing the content and presentation of lectures, then this is a null argument.
For example, in a film class that I'm currently taking, my laptop is indispensable for the wikipedia entries on movies mentioned, for taking quick notes, and for the ability to take notes in the dark (while a movie is playing.
) Also, this class is structured in a way that everyone in the class is always engaged.Banning laptops is a stopgap to the larger issue of inefficient classes and lectures, just like banning graphing calculators on tests (oh no you can put notes on the calculator!
we can't have that!).
Make lectures engaging, focus tests on understanding and application as opposed to rote memorization, and problem solved.
I've been in classes where it's been done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426816</id>
	<title>As a recent W&amp;M grad...</title>
	<author>cartzworth</author>
	<datestamp>1268239560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had a limited number of professors who banned laptops in their classrooms.  Typically it was only the insecure professors who sucked pedagogically who resorted to such bans.  If you have a stimulating lecturer on a worthwhile topic, the issue of attention solves itself.  Ultimately, it's only the student who suffers anyway.  Sort of the old "you can lead a horse to water..." type deal, just involving technology as an inhibitor to learning which is only a distraction because of lack of inherent attention/motivation in the student.  <br> <br> Laptops are no more distracting than elaborate doodling, fidgeting, or sleeping students.<br> <br>Disclaimer: I totally fucked around on my laptop in classes I didn't care about (General Education Requirements!) or with professors who sucked.  However, it's also nice to be able to lookup something you don't understand or is tangential but interesting...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a limited number of professors who banned laptops in their classrooms .
Typically it was only the insecure professors who sucked pedagogically who resorted to such bans .
If you have a stimulating lecturer on a worthwhile topic , the issue of attention solves itself .
Ultimately , it 's only the student who suffers anyway .
Sort of the old " you can lead a horse to water... " type deal , just involving technology as an inhibitor to learning which is only a distraction because of lack of inherent attention/motivation in the student .
Laptops are no more distracting than elaborate doodling , fidgeting , or sleeping students .
Disclaimer : I totally fucked around on my laptop in classes I did n't care about ( General Education Requirements !
) or with professors who sucked .
However , it 's also nice to be able to lookup something you do n't understand or is tangential but interesting.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a limited number of professors who banned laptops in their classrooms.
Typically it was only the insecure professors who sucked pedagogically who resorted to such bans.
If you have a stimulating lecturer on a worthwhile topic, the issue of attention solves itself.
Ultimately, it's only the student who suffers anyway.
Sort of the old "you can lead a horse to water..." type deal, just involving technology as an inhibitor to learning which is only a distraction because of lack of inherent attention/motivation in the student.
Laptops are no more distracting than elaborate doodling, fidgeting, or sleeping students.
Disclaimer: I totally fucked around on my laptop in classes I didn't care about (General Education Requirements!
) or with professors who sucked.
However, it's also nice to be able to lookup something you don't understand or is tangential but interesting...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426510</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The instructor's role is to better explain what's in the textbook, and discuss things that weren't in the book. If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.</p><p>I call BS on that.</p><p>The professor is there to teach you.  The books, notes and other aids are to help you if you failed to understand it when he taught it.  If you are there to learn from the book then why waste the money on classes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The instructor 's role is to better explain what 's in the textbook , and discuss things that were n't in the book .
If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder ( lots of students then used tape ) , but a notebook ban would n't bother me , I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.I call BS on that.The professor is there to teach you .
The books , notes and other aids are to help you if you failed to understand it when he taught it .
If you are there to learn from the book then why waste the money on classes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The instructor's role is to better explain what's in the textbook, and discuss things that weren't in the book.
If I was in school today I might use a notebook as a speech recorder (lots of students then used tape), but a notebook ban wouldn't bother me, I can record on my phone as easily as on a notebook.I call BS on that.The professor is there to teach you.
The books, notes and other aids are to help you if you failed to understand it when he taught it.
If you are there to learn from the book then why waste the money on classes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425356</id>
	<title>another way to attack this</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1268232480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If students are able to not pay attention, and still do well (enough) in classes, then make the classes more difficult.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If students are able to not pay attention , and still do well ( enough ) in classes , then make the classes more difficult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If students are able to not pay attention, and still do well (enough) in classes, then make the classes more difficult.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425162</id>
	<title>This is the Professor's Ego</title>
	<author>RobotRunAmok</author>
	<datestamp>1268231520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll never find a more self-absorbed cast (or more accurately, caste) of characters than you will in a University Faculty Lounge.  Is it any wonder more and more of them can't abide the notion their students find what's happening in Farmville more riveting than what's happening in their lecture hall?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll never find a more self-absorbed cast ( or more accurately , caste ) of characters than you will in a University Faculty Lounge .
Is it any wonder more and more of them ca n't abide the notion their students find what 's happening in Farmville more riveting than what 's happening in their lecture hall ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll never find a more self-absorbed cast (or more accurately, caste) of characters than you will in a University Faculty Lounge.
Is it any wonder more and more of them can't abide the notion their students find what's happening in Farmville more riveting than what's happening in their lecture hall?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425436</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>jandersen</author>
	<datestamp>1268232900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.</p></div><p>One of the purposes of a university is to teach students. The teaching part is important; otherwise you could just sit in the library, but teaching is (or ought to be) an interation between the teacher and students, where the teacher can respond to questions and clarify points is necessary; teaching is something the class takes part in. You can argue that the students are old enough to decide whether they want to listen; but if they don't want to take part, they can go somewhere else and play games. If the majority of a large class are not interested in taking part and just waste their time, they not only contribute to making the room cramped, they also produce an culture of "don't listen to the grey man down there" - both of which hurt everybody's ability to learn.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing how this is college , I 'm dumbfounded by the " nannying " going on here.One of the purposes of a university is to teach students .
The teaching part is important ; otherwise you could just sit in the library , but teaching is ( or ought to be ) an interation between the teacher and students , where the teacher can respond to questions and clarify points is necessary ; teaching is something the class takes part in .
You can argue that the students are old enough to decide whether they want to listen ; but if they do n't want to take part , they can go somewhere else and play games .
If the majority of a large class are not interested in taking part and just waste their time , they not only contribute to making the room cramped , they also produce an culture of " do n't listen to the grey man down there " - both of which hurt everybody 's ability to learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seeing how this is college, I'm dumbfounded by the "nannying" going on here.One of the purposes of a university is to teach students.
The teaching part is important; otherwise you could just sit in the library, but teaching is (or ought to be) an interation between the teacher and students, where the teacher can respond to questions and clarify points is necessary; teaching is something the class takes part in.
You can argue that the students are old enough to decide whether they want to listen; but if they don't want to take part, they can go somewhere else and play games.
If the majority of a large class are not interested in taking part and just waste their time, they not only contribute to making the room cramped, they also produce an culture of "don't listen to the grey man down there" - both of which hurt everybody's ability to learn.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31451496</id>
	<title>Distractions?</title>
	<author>Explodicle</author>
	<datestamp>1268408760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had ADHD my entire life. While I was in college (not too long ago, people had laptops) know what I did? Showed up on time and sat near the front. It's amazing how easy it is to avoid distraction when the professor is right there, with no laptops in between you.</p><p>I'm sure plenty of people have an excuse as to why they can't sit near the front or why that's not good enough, but it comes down to taking personal responsibility for your own education and saving the excuses for the professional world.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had ADHD my entire life .
While I was in college ( not too long ago , people had laptops ) know what I did ?
Showed up on time and sat near the front .
It 's amazing how easy it is to avoid distraction when the professor is right there , with no laptops in between you.I 'm sure plenty of people have an excuse as to why they ca n't sit near the front or why that 's not good enough , but it comes down to taking personal responsibility for your own education and saving the excuses for the professional world .
: -P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had ADHD my entire life.
While I was in college (not too long ago, people had laptops) know what I did?
Showed up on time and sat near the front.
It's amazing how easy it is to avoid distraction when the professor is right there, with no laptops in between you.I'm sure plenty of people have an excuse as to why they can't sit near the front or why that's not good enough, but it comes down to taking personal responsibility for your own education and saving the excuses for the professional world.
:-P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431870</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>vertinox</author>
	<datestamp>1268219760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Score: Computer Science Degree for me, MacDonald's for multitaskers</i></p><p>Sadly, I've worked for a few fortune 500 it desks that demanded things that were impossible to do unless you were ADD.</p><p>And no you can't stay more than 60 hours a week uncomped because they were already sued for that... So they specifically said to do things while you were doing other things when someone objected to the lack of time to complete said objectives.</p><p>Considering they laid off half their workforce... And fired anyone for the most inconsequential thing.</p><p>I'm glad I resigned... Anyways.</p><p>Just saying there are a few major companies out there that not only suggest multi-tasking... But demand it in writing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Score : Computer Science Degree for me , MacDonald 's for multitaskersSadly , I 've worked for a few fortune 500 it desks that demanded things that were impossible to do unless you were ADD.And no you ca n't stay more than 60 hours a week uncomped because they were already sued for that... So they specifically said to do things while you were doing other things when someone objected to the lack of time to complete said objectives.Considering they laid off half their workforce... And fired anyone for the most inconsequential thing.I 'm glad I resigned... Anyways.Just saying there are a few major companies out there that not only suggest multi-tasking... But demand it in writing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Score: Computer Science Degree for me, MacDonald's for multitaskersSadly, I've worked for a few fortune 500 it desks that demanded things that were impossible to do unless you were ADD.And no you can't stay more than 60 hours a week uncomped because they were already sued for that... So they specifically said to do things while you were doing other things when someone objected to the lack of time to complete said objectives.Considering they laid off half their workforce... And fired anyone for the most inconsequential thing.I'm glad I resigned... Anyways.Just saying there are a few major companies out there that not only suggest multi-tasking... But demand it in writing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425662</id>
	<title>Stop whining.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268234040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The comments here are pretty appalling.</p><p>The professor's job is to educate his students.  Not entertain them.  By and large, he is accountable to the parents, who pay hefty tuition and expect in return that their children will come out of college having actually learned something.  For the flip side of this issue, try talking to a professor about just how hard it is to get students to pay attention nowadays, and to take personal responsibility for their scholarship.</p><p>The professors are also accountable to their institutions.  Their meager livelihoods depend on successfully imparting knowledge and understanding to an increasingly under-prepared and distracted student body.  They have to put up with unfair job reviews and pin-headed bureaucrats, just like software developers do.  And they live in fear of having their careers destroyed by anonymous slander on teacher review websites.  Since the tenure system is now largely history, most professors are effectively temporary contractors, like software engineers.  The big difference is that software engineers earn decent money when they have a job; professors, for the most part, do not.  So signing up for a life of teaching is a commitment to a life of frustration, fear, and poverty.  Is it any wonder there are so many questionable teachers out there?</p><p>So I have an alternate proposal for you.  How about acknowledging the fact that learning is hard work, frequently tedious, and the last thing students need is a computer on their desks to distract them during lectures?  How about admitting that you do actually take frequent breaks to check Facebook, email, CNN, or whatever during class?  How about facing the fact that the human brain is physically incapable of multi-tasking, and every little distraction significantly degrades your ability to absorb information?</p><p>Children, pay attention.  Someone paid to send you to college.  You chose freely to walk into that lecture hall.  Now you owe your professor the courtesy and respect to pay attention to his lecture without dicking around on your laptop computer.  It is the professor's job to determine the manner of instruction in his classroom.  If he deems, quite reasonably, that students will be more engaged and focused by taking notes using pen and paper, then you, as students, should respectfully comply.  If you have a disability that prevents you from taking notes by hand, surely you can discuss it with the teacher and obtain an exception.  If you disagree with the policy, don't take the class.  And if the class is required and you still feel that strongly about it, by all means vote with your feet and your tuition money by choosing another college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The comments here are pretty appalling.The professor 's job is to educate his students .
Not entertain them .
By and large , he is accountable to the parents , who pay hefty tuition and expect in return that their children will come out of college having actually learned something .
For the flip side of this issue , try talking to a professor about just how hard it is to get students to pay attention nowadays , and to take personal responsibility for their scholarship.The professors are also accountable to their institutions .
Their meager livelihoods depend on successfully imparting knowledge and understanding to an increasingly under-prepared and distracted student body .
They have to put up with unfair job reviews and pin-headed bureaucrats , just like software developers do .
And they live in fear of having their careers destroyed by anonymous slander on teacher review websites .
Since the tenure system is now largely history , most professors are effectively temporary contractors , like software engineers .
The big difference is that software engineers earn decent money when they have a job ; professors , for the most part , do not .
So signing up for a life of teaching is a commitment to a life of frustration , fear , and poverty .
Is it any wonder there are so many questionable teachers out there ? So I have an alternate proposal for you .
How about acknowledging the fact that learning is hard work , frequently tedious , and the last thing students need is a computer on their desks to distract them during lectures ?
How about admitting that you do actually take frequent breaks to check Facebook , email , CNN , or whatever during class ?
How about facing the fact that the human brain is physically incapable of multi-tasking , and every little distraction significantly degrades your ability to absorb information ? Children , pay attention .
Someone paid to send you to college .
You chose freely to walk into that lecture hall .
Now you owe your professor the courtesy and respect to pay attention to his lecture without dicking around on your laptop computer .
It is the professor 's job to determine the manner of instruction in his classroom .
If he deems , quite reasonably , that students will be more engaged and focused by taking notes using pen and paper , then you , as students , should respectfully comply .
If you have a disability that prevents you from taking notes by hand , surely you can discuss it with the teacher and obtain an exception .
If you disagree with the policy , do n't take the class .
And if the class is required and you still feel that strongly about it , by all means vote with your feet and your tuition money by choosing another college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The comments here are pretty appalling.The professor's job is to educate his students.
Not entertain them.
By and large, he is accountable to the parents, who pay hefty tuition and expect in return that their children will come out of college having actually learned something.
For the flip side of this issue, try talking to a professor about just how hard it is to get students to pay attention nowadays, and to take personal responsibility for their scholarship.The professors are also accountable to their institutions.
Their meager livelihoods depend on successfully imparting knowledge and understanding to an increasingly under-prepared and distracted student body.
They have to put up with unfair job reviews and pin-headed bureaucrats, just like software developers do.
And they live in fear of having their careers destroyed by anonymous slander on teacher review websites.
Since the tenure system is now largely history, most professors are effectively temporary contractors, like software engineers.
The big difference is that software engineers earn decent money when they have a job; professors, for the most part, do not.
So signing up for a life of teaching is a commitment to a life of frustration, fear, and poverty.
Is it any wonder there are so many questionable teachers out there?So I have an alternate proposal for you.
How about acknowledging the fact that learning is hard work, frequently tedious, and the last thing students need is a computer on their desks to distract them during lectures?
How about admitting that you do actually take frequent breaks to check Facebook, email, CNN, or whatever during class?
How about facing the fact that the human brain is physically incapable of multi-tasking, and every little distraction significantly degrades your ability to absorb information?Children, pay attention.
Someone paid to send you to college.
You chose freely to walk into that lecture hall.
Now you owe your professor the courtesy and respect to pay attention to his lecture without dicking around on your laptop computer.
It is the professor's job to determine the manner of instruction in his classroom.
If he deems, quite reasonably, that students will be more engaged and focused by taking notes using pen and paper, then you, as students, should respectfully comply.
If you have a disability that prevents you from taking notes by hand, surely you can discuss it with the teacher and obtain an exception.
If you disagree with the policy, don't take the class.
And if the class is required and you still feel that strongly about it, by all means vote with your feet and your tuition money by choosing another college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425522</id>
	<title>Re:What's next? Burkas?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think I speak for all the men here, when I say that there's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...</p></div><p>I'm a Mac user, you insensitive clod!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I speak for all the men here , when I say that there 's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...I 'm a Mac user , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I speak for all the men here, when I say that there's nothing more distracting on Earth than a beautiful 19 year old girl in a tank top and a short skirt...I'm a Mac user, you insensitive clod!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31437478</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268323440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I bet there's someone in a lecture reading this right now.</p></div><p>Yep<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>If 75\% of the courses I'm forced to take weren't completely useless and total bull shit (Human Communication Disorders?  I'm a Computer Science major...) I would gladly pay attention.  I do very well and learn what I find interesting, which is what I'm studying, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay attention to every detail the professor spits out in my History of Japan class.</p><p>Liberal education requirements force students to take courses in fields they have no interest in whatsoever.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet there 's someone in a lecture reading this right now.Yep : ) If 75 \ % of the courses I 'm forced to take were n't completely useless and total bull shit ( Human Communication Disorders ?
I 'm a Computer Science major... ) I would gladly pay attention .
I do very well and learn what I find interesting , which is what I 'm studying , but I 'm sorry , I 'm not going to pay attention to every detail the professor spits out in my History of Japan class.Liberal education requirements force students to take courses in fields they have no interest in whatsoever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet there's someone in a lecture reading this right now.Yep :)If 75\% of the courses I'm forced to take weren't completely useless and total bull shit (Human Communication Disorders?
I'm a Computer Science major...) I would gladly pay attention.
I do very well and learn what I find interesting, which is what I'm studying, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay attention to every detail the professor spits out in my History of Japan class.Liberal education requirements force students to take courses in fields they have no interest in whatsoever.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426376</id>
	<title>Note taking vs comprehension</title>
	<author>ehud42</author>
	<datestamp>1268237640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The summary implies that students comprehend the lectures better when taking notes with a pen &amp; paper vs using laptops as glorified typewriters. I strongly disagree - actually it largely depends on the professor's teaching ability. I recall frantically transcribing notes during lectures so fast I was barely keeping up - any attempt to pause and comprehend would set me back so far that I would never catch up. With a laptop I might have had a fighting chance to keep up - I have always been able to type much faster then I can write.</p><p>I wasn't alone - in one infamous math lecture, after scribing a couple pages of some proof or such thing the prof realized he made a mistake and started over. A collective and frustrated sigh arose from the class along with the collective sound of hundreds of pages of paper being torn out of notebooks and crumpled. No one had caught the mistake - why? Because they were all frantically transcribing and not comprehending. Comprehension was for later when you would review the notes.</p><p>If your students are not comprehending anything in your class - you are either boring, moving too fast or diving too deep into details that are overwhelming and confusing. In any case, no technology no matter how primitive or advanced is going to help your students during class - however, advanced note taking might help them capture enough information to be able to learn on their own while doing the assignments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The summary implies that students comprehend the lectures better when taking notes with a pen &amp; paper vs using laptops as glorified typewriters .
I strongly disagree - actually it largely depends on the professor 's teaching ability .
I recall frantically transcribing notes during lectures so fast I was barely keeping up - any attempt to pause and comprehend would set me back so far that I would never catch up .
With a laptop I might have had a fighting chance to keep up - I have always been able to type much faster then I can write.I was n't alone - in one infamous math lecture , after scribing a couple pages of some proof or such thing the prof realized he made a mistake and started over .
A collective and frustrated sigh arose from the class along with the collective sound of hundreds of pages of paper being torn out of notebooks and crumpled .
No one had caught the mistake - why ?
Because they were all frantically transcribing and not comprehending .
Comprehension was for later when you would review the notes.If your students are not comprehending anything in your class - you are either boring , moving too fast or diving too deep into details that are overwhelming and confusing .
In any case , no technology no matter how primitive or advanced is going to help your students during class - however , advanced note taking might help them capture enough information to be able to learn on their own while doing the assignments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The summary implies that students comprehend the lectures better when taking notes with a pen &amp; paper vs using laptops as glorified typewriters.
I strongly disagree - actually it largely depends on the professor's teaching ability.
I recall frantically transcribing notes during lectures so fast I was barely keeping up - any attempt to pause and comprehend would set me back so far that I would never catch up.
With a laptop I might have had a fighting chance to keep up - I have always been able to type much faster then I can write.I wasn't alone - in one infamous math lecture, after scribing a couple pages of some proof or such thing the prof realized he made a mistake and started over.
A collective and frustrated sigh arose from the class along with the collective sound of hundreds of pages of paper being torn out of notebooks and crumpled.
No one had caught the mistake - why?
Because they were all frantically transcribing and not comprehending.
Comprehension was for later when you would review the notes.If your students are not comprehending anything in your class - you are either boring, moving too fast or diving too deep into details that are overwhelming and confusing.
In any case, no technology no matter how primitive or advanced is going to help your students during class - however, advanced note taking might help them capture enough information to be able to learn on their own while doing the assignments.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425250</id>
	<title>Not your dime...</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1268232060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whose education are those kids who are playing games during class, hurting?</p><p>Yours?</p><p>Another students?</p><p>Who is paying for those kids to sit in the classroom?</p><p>You?</p><p>The professor?</p><p>It's his money and his time.  If he isn't being a distraction and hindering the education of the other students, then you really have no say, at all.</p><p>Would he get a better education if he wasn't playing games in class?  Debatable.  He could just as easily waste time doodling, texting on his cell, sleeping, or just plain bunking the class to do what he wants.</p><p>While you \_think\_ he should be doing something else.  It's his (or his parents) dime.  Not yours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whose education are those kids who are playing games during class , hurting ? Yours ? Another students ? Who is paying for those kids to sit in the classroom ? You ? The professor ? It 's his money and his time .
If he is n't being a distraction and hindering the education of the other students , then you really have no say , at all.Would he get a better education if he was n't playing games in class ?
Debatable. He could just as easily waste time doodling , texting on his cell , sleeping , or just plain bunking the class to do what he wants.While you \ _think \ _ he should be doing something else .
It 's his ( or his parents ) dime .
Not yours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whose education are those kids who are playing games during class, hurting?Yours?Another students?Who is paying for those kids to sit in the classroom?You?The professor?It's his money and his time.
If he isn't being a distraction and hindering the education of the other students, then you really have no say, at all.Would he get a better education if he wasn't playing games in class?
Debatable.  He could just as easily waste time doodling, texting on his cell, sleeping, or just plain bunking the class to do what he wants.While you \_think\_ he should be doing something else.
It's his (or his parents) dime.
Not yours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31445406</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>frdmfghtr</author>
	<datestamp>1268306220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner, and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images, their attention is going to suffer, whether they like it or not.</p></div></blockquote><p>Too true...in all my college classes, I found that I was able to pay attention to the lecture better when I sat in the front two rows.  Wen I was in back, I was distracted by the littlest of things...that student over there fiddling with her phone, that student over there who brought a three-course meal to class.  The downside was that I didn't know who was in class with me half the time, because they sat behind me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner , and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images , their attention is going to suffer , whether they like it or not.Too true...in all my college classes , I found that I was able to pay attention to the lecture better when I sat in the front two rows .
Wen I was in back , I was distracted by the littlest of things...that student over there fiddling with her phone , that student over there who brought a three-course meal to class .
The downside was that I did n't know who was in class with me half the time , because they sat behind me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you take a primate whose visual system has been shaped by millenia of evolution in an environment where every movement in the corner of your eye is either dinner or about to make you dinner, and put them a few rows back in a class full of screens showing moving images, their attention is going to suffer, whether they like it or not.Too true...in all my college classes, I found that I was able to pay attention to the lecture better when I sat in the front two rows.
Wen I was in back, I was distracted by the littlest of things...that student over there fiddling with her phone, that student over there who brought a three-course meal to class.
The downside was that I didn't know who was in class with me half the time, because they sat behind me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425218</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>starcraftsicko</author>
	<datestamp>1268231940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless you are in the back row, your WoW or YouTube or Facebook (or Slashdot) are a visual distraction to \_others\_ even with ear buds or if muted.   The "nannying" happens because you (or a meaningful number of your classmates) can't keep themselves from providing this distraction.  You (they?) simply can't stop.  Even now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you are in the back row , your WoW or YouTube or Facebook ( or Slashdot ) are a visual distraction to \ _others \ _ even with ear buds or if muted .
The " nannying " happens because you ( or a meaningful number of your classmates ) ca n't keep themselves from providing this distraction .
You ( they ?
) simply ca n't stop .
Even now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you are in the back row, your WoW or YouTube or Facebook (or Slashdot) are a visual distraction to \_others\_ even with ear buds or if muted.
The "nannying" happens because you (or a meaningful number of your classmates) can't keep themselves from providing this distraction.
You (they?
) simply can't stop.
Even now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425546</id>
	<title>Once Again, Depends on the Student...</title>
	<author>bwohlgemuth</author>
	<datestamp>1268233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Had a laptop for my BS and MBA, online doing all sorts of crap.

Still graduated with a 3.8+ GPA.

As always, it depends on the student.  I could see how a bunch of teenagers would be easily distracted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Had a laptop for my BS and MBA , online doing all sorts of crap .
Still graduated with a 3.8 + GPA .
As always , it depends on the student .
I could see how a bunch of teenagers would be easily distracted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Had a laptop for my BS and MBA, online doing all sorts of crap.
Still graduated with a 3.8+ GPA.
As always, it depends on the student.
I could see how a bunch of teenagers would be easily distracted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427094</id>
	<title>Re:Not your dime...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, yes, very good.</p><p>Back in reality, doing that is simply being a dick, regardless of whether it's currently distracting anyone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , yes , very good.Back in reality , doing that is simply being a dick , regardless of whether it 's currently distracting anyone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, yes, very good.Back in reality, doing that is simply being a dick, regardless of whether it's currently distracting anyone else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425170</id>
	<title>Other students</title>
	<author>Rtmm</author>
	<datestamp>1268231580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>My biggest problem with those who come to lectures just to play games/chat on facebook or what have you, is that they are distracting other students. Its fine if you don't want to learn, just don't come to class. Other students paid money to come to class and generally don't want to be distracted by someone playing counterstike or watching youtube all class.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My biggest problem with those who come to lectures just to play games/chat on facebook or what have you , is that they are distracting other students .
Its fine if you do n't want to learn , just do n't come to class .
Other students paid money to come to class and generally do n't want to be distracted by someone playing counterstike or watching youtube all class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My biggest problem with those who come to lectures just to play games/chat on facebook or what have you, is that they are distracting other students.
Its fine if you don't want to learn, just don't come to class.
Other students paid money to come to class and generally don't want to be distracted by someone playing counterstike or watching youtube all class.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428320</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I took most of my notes in college using a PDA with a fold-out keyboard.  This was nice because I could fit them both in my pockets, and PDAs are not nearly so entertaining as laptops are.  I could get my notes down then review them later from a coffee shop or wherever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I took most of my notes in college using a PDA with a fold-out keyboard .
This was nice because I could fit them both in my pockets , and PDAs are not nearly so entertaining as laptops are .
I could get my notes down then review them later from a coffee shop or wherever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I took most of my notes in college using a PDA with a fold-out keyboard.
This was nice because I could fit them both in my pockets, and PDAs are not nearly so entertaining as laptops are.
I could get my notes down then review them later from a coffee shop or wherever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</id>
	<title>A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268231280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's a thought: Instead of banning distractions, be the distraction yourself. For centuries, teachers have been competing with distractions, including daydreamers and sleepers. Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with. Instead, make your lectures interesting. Vary the tone of your voice, provide practical examples, and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk. Yes, you're a professor. Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas. No, they are not paying to just hear your voice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a thought : Instead of banning distractions , be the distraction yourself .
For centuries , teachers have been competing with distractions , including daydreamers and sleepers .
Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with .
Instead , make your lectures interesting .
Vary the tone of your voice , provide practical examples , and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk .
Yes , you 're a professor .
Yes , students are paying to hear your ideas .
No , they are not paying to just hear your voice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a thought: Instead of banning distractions, be the distraction yourself.
For centuries, teachers have been competing with distractions, including daydreamers and sleepers.
Laptops and the Internet are just more things to compete with.
Instead, make your lectures interesting.
Vary the tone of your voice, provide practical examples, and stay away from the temptation to just stand there and talk.
Yes, you're a professor.
Yes, students are paying to hear your ideas.
No, they are not paying to just hear your voice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31442664</id>
	<title>Boredom Training</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268340600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I found that being bored to tears by professors while they ramble on about the intricacies of NP completeness was good training for sitting in boring meetings while other people ramble on about cost savings and increased revenue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I found that being bored to tears by professors while they ramble on about the intricacies of NP completeness was good training for sitting in boring meetings while other people ramble on about cost savings and increased revenue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found that being bored to tears by professors while they ramble on about the intricacies of NP completeness was good training for sitting in boring meetings while other people ramble on about cost savings and increased revenue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425556</id>
	<title>Give them all the notes in advance</title>
	<author>NoNeeeed</author>
	<datestamp>1268233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what all the good lecturers on my course did.  Before each lecture (and in some cases before the entire course) you got copies of all the notes, at least in digital form.  At a minimum that was the content of the slides, at best it also included lots of additional information.</p><p>That way you could spend your time listening to the lecturer, joining in discussions, asking questions etc.  You actually had time to absorb the information.  It made lectures far more productive, rather than just being an exercise in note taking,</p><p>If you needed to take additional notes you could add them to the notes you had been given.</p><p>It had the added benefit that if you couldn't get to a lecture for whatever reason you had a minimum useful set of notes.  No need to crib notes from someone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what all the good lecturers on my course did .
Before each lecture ( and in some cases before the entire course ) you got copies of all the notes , at least in digital form .
At a minimum that was the content of the slides , at best it also included lots of additional information.That way you could spend your time listening to the lecturer , joining in discussions , asking questions etc .
You actually had time to absorb the information .
It made lectures far more productive , rather than just being an exercise in note taking,If you needed to take additional notes you could add them to the notes you had been given.It had the added benefit that if you could n't get to a lecture for whatever reason you had a minimum useful set of notes .
No need to crib notes from someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what all the good lecturers on my course did.
Before each lecture (and in some cases before the entire course) you got copies of all the notes, at least in digital form.
At a minimum that was the content of the slides, at best it also included lots of additional information.That way you could spend your time listening to the lecturer, joining in discussions, asking questions etc.
You actually had time to absorb the information.
It made lectures far more productive, rather than just being an exercise in note taking,If you needed to take additional notes you could add them to the notes you had been given.It had the added benefit that if you couldn't get to a lecture for whatever reason you had a minimum useful set of notes.
No need to crib notes from someone else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425360</id>
	<title>Yeah</title>
	<author>Broken scope</author>
	<datestamp>1268232480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your lecture is boring, you are boring, you can't seem to focus on the important points and ramble, you talk about how we should focus our energy (you say that you usually find your energy centered just above your sternum), and you publicly harangue anyone who has a learning disability and actually needs their laptop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your lecture is boring , you are boring , you ca n't seem to focus on the important points and ramble , you talk about how we should focus our energy ( you say that you usually find your energy centered just above your sternum ) , and you publicly harangue anyone who has a learning disability and actually needs their laptop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your lecture is boring, you are boring, you can't seem to focus on the important points and ramble, you talk about how we should focus our energy (you say that you usually find your energy centered just above your sternum), and you publicly harangue anyone who has a learning disability and actually needs their laptop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425716</id>
	<title>his classroom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268234400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>his rules.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>his rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>his rules.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428240</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268246100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a college professor and I don't have a problem with laptops in the classroom. However, I would not work at a school where I was not allowed to ban the laptops if I felt they were a distraction to my ability to teach. From the professor's perspective, I don't want laptops in my classroom is a sane policy whether you or I like it or not.</p><p>On a side note, surprisingly enough I have had to ask a few students to not surf porno sites during class. I have nothing against porno but thinking that surfing porn sites during class is acceptable is just plan odd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a college professor and I do n't have a problem with laptops in the classroom .
However , I would not work at a school where I was not allowed to ban the laptops if I felt they were a distraction to my ability to teach .
From the professor 's perspective , I do n't want laptops in my classroom is a sane policy whether you or I like it or not.On a side note , surprisingly enough I have had to ask a few students to not surf porno sites during class .
I have nothing against porno but thinking that surfing porn sites during class is acceptable is just plan odd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a college professor and I don't have a problem with laptops in the classroom.
However, I would not work at a school where I was not allowed to ban the laptops if I felt they were a distraction to my ability to teach.
From the professor's perspective, I don't want laptops in my classroom is a sane policy whether you or I like it or not.On a side note, surprisingly enough I have had to ask a few students to not surf porno sites during class.
I have nothing against porno but thinking that surfing porn sites during class is acceptable is just plan odd.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426854</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>BrokenHalo</author>
	<datestamp>1268239740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Also, the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use.</i> <br> <br>
The doodles can be entirely irrelevant but still useful. I remember scoring a few bonus marks in exams by way of having remembered doodles on my notes as visual cues.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use .
The doodles can be entirely irrelevant but still useful .
I remember scoring a few bonus marks in exams by way of having remembered doodles on my notes as visual cues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, the doodles may also be related to what is actually being taught and may be of use.
The doodles can be entirely irrelevant but still useful.
I remember scoring a few bonus marks in exams by way of having remembered doodles on my notes as visual cues.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425280</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>ElectricTurtle</author>
	<datestamp>1268232180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your falsification depends on the accuracy of your personal bias. You feel that because when you doodle your attention is less absorbed than when you play Facebook games or use IM, therefore all people must share this experience equally. This is a highly irrational conceit, and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your falsification depends on the accuracy of your personal bias .
You feel that because when you doodle your attention is less absorbed than when you play Facebook games or use IM , therefore all people must share this experience equally .
This is a highly irrational conceit , and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your falsification depends on the accuracy of your personal bias.
You feel that because when you doodle your attention is less absorbed than when you play Facebook games or use IM, therefore all people must share this experience equally.
This is a highly irrational conceit, and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425384</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>vvaduva</author>
	<datestamp>1268232660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But I want to plant my fields, feed my chickens and kill a few mobsters really really bad!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But I want to plant my fields , feed my chickens and kill a few mobsters really really bad !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I want to plant my fields, feed my chickens and kill a few mobsters really really bad!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31432382</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1268222760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The profs should hire spokesmodels to read the lectures? I think that's what you mean. Or did you mean they should use Penn and Teller?<br>
HEH</htmltext>
<tokenext>The profs should hire spokesmodels to read the lectures ?
I think that 's what you mean .
Or did you mean they should use Penn and Teller ?
HEH</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The profs should hire spokesmodels to read the lectures?
I think that's what you mean.
Or did you mean they should use Penn and Teller?
HEH</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425874</id>
	<title>Recent Graduate</title>
	<author>Saerko</author>
	<datestamp>1268235420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I graduated a little under a year ago, and I used a laptop in every class from undergrad through grad school. My friends and I would use our time in the class to either take notes or look up relevant articles on the material via Google Scholar or my school's online library. We got A's in almost every class, and were consistently touted as the most productive and engaged students, because our access to material online allowed us to form better questions and support informed debate through key statistics and quotes.

Technology can really, really improve class performance, especially laptops. I think the bigger thing is to stop requiring attendance at classes people pay out of pocket for, and to stop making classes just rote dumps of the material.

For example, I had a Pharmacology professor who posted all of his lecture powerpoints online, complete with audio so we could listen to the "lecture" on our own time. We were given case studies and problem sets each week, and the purpose of class was to come in and discuss the cases and problems to make sure we understood the material. Class often got out early, and everyone loved that professor.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I graduated a little under a year ago , and I used a laptop in every class from undergrad through grad school .
My friends and I would use our time in the class to either take notes or look up relevant articles on the material via Google Scholar or my school 's online library .
We got A 's in almost every class , and were consistently touted as the most productive and engaged students , because our access to material online allowed us to form better questions and support informed debate through key statistics and quotes .
Technology can really , really improve class performance , especially laptops .
I think the bigger thing is to stop requiring attendance at classes people pay out of pocket for , and to stop making classes just rote dumps of the material .
For example , I had a Pharmacology professor who posted all of his lecture powerpoints online , complete with audio so we could listen to the " lecture " on our own time .
We were given case studies and problem sets each week , and the purpose of class was to come in and discuss the cases and problems to make sure we understood the material .
Class often got out early , and everyone loved that professor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I graduated a little under a year ago, and I used a laptop in every class from undergrad through grad school.
My friends and I would use our time in the class to either take notes or look up relevant articles on the material via Google Scholar or my school's online library.
We got A's in almost every class, and were consistently touted as the most productive and engaged students, because our access to material online allowed us to form better questions and support informed debate through key statistics and quotes.
Technology can really, really improve class performance, especially laptops.
I think the bigger thing is to stop requiring attendance at classes people pay out of pocket for, and to stop making classes just rote dumps of the material.
For example, I had a Pharmacology professor who posted all of his lecture powerpoints online, complete with audio so we could listen to the "lecture" on our own time.
We were given case studies and problem sets each week, and the purpose of class was to come in and discuss the cases and problems to make sure we understood the material.
Class often got out early, and everyone loved that professor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425370</id>
	<title>I can't write!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, i don't get it. I sit down by a lesson, can't bring my laptop with me, can't use my iPhone? ?</p><p>The only thing I'm allowed to bring is a piece of paper and a pen with real ink? What was the use of that pen again? Stick it to my left ear?</p><p>Can't follow Facebook, send tweets, SMS, IMs, emails, buy phone applications before they are all removed from store, watch youTube videos, powerpoints of this and three more lessons, read RSS and news, update my system and a couple other VMware ones, one underneath and two remote, add some chapters to the school script, complete a project plan and set up the email to the Venture Capitalists for my new startup?</p><p>And, by the way, who is that babbling guy with big '80s glasses behind that desk? Can we have a little quiet please, we're trying to do some work here!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , i do n't get it .
I sit down by a lesson , ca n't bring my laptop with me , ca n't use my iPhone ?
? The only thing I 'm allowed to bring is a piece of paper and a pen with real ink ?
What was the use of that pen again ?
Stick it to my left ear ? Ca n't follow Facebook , send tweets , SMS , IMs , emails , buy phone applications before they are all removed from store , watch youTube videos , powerpoints of this and three more lessons , read RSS and news , update my system and a couple other VMware ones , one underneath and two remote , add some chapters to the school script , complete a project plan and set up the email to the Venture Capitalists for my new startup ? And , by the way , who is that babbling guy with big '80s glasses behind that desk ?
Can we have a little quiet please , we 're trying to do some work here !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, i don't get it.
I sit down by a lesson, can't bring my laptop with me, can't use my iPhone?
?The only thing I'm allowed to bring is a piece of paper and a pen with real ink?
What was the use of that pen again?
Stick it to my left ear?Can't follow Facebook, send tweets, SMS, IMs, emails, buy phone applications before they are all removed from store, watch youTube videos, powerpoints of this and three more lessons, read RSS and news, update my system and a couple other VMware ones, one underneath and two remote, add some chapters to the school script, complete a project plan and set up the email to the Venture Capitalists for my new startup?And, by the way, who is that babbling guy with big '80s glasses behind that desk?
Can we have a little quiet please, we're trying to do some work here!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427992</id>
	<title>how many professors ban pens and notebooks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268244780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Socrates</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well ... Socrates</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well ... Socrates</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425338</id>
	<title>Re:This is College</title>
	<author>gsslay</author>
	<datestamp>1268232420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ students</p></div><p>I think we can take it as read that that's exactly what happens.  It's very hard to concentrate on a lecture when all around you resembles a gaming internet cafe.  And that also applies to whoever is trying to deliver the lecture.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \ _other \ _ studentsI think we can take it as read that that 's exactly what happens .
It 's very hard to concentrate on a lecture when all around you resembles a gaming internet cafe .
And that also applies to whoever is trying to deliver the lecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unless laptops as a whole are distracting to \_other\_ studentsI think we can take it as read that that's exactly what happens.
It's very hard to concentrate on a lecture when all around you resembles a gaming internet cafe.
And that also applies to whoever is trying to deliver the lecture.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425634</id>
	<title>Not all people learn the same.</title>
	<author>RaigetheFury</author>
	<datestamp>1268233860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People learn very differently and retain information differently. My parents are a great example. My father can read a book and recite passages and facts about the entire book. My mother on the other hand has to read the book, mark references, and look back at her notes before she's ready to "recall" facts.</p><p>College is no different. Just because someone has to take notes and study doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them or that they are stupid. It's how they learn.</p><p>A laptop is a much more efficient and "readable" note taking device. Ever take notes that you can't read for the life of you because you're trying to keep up with the professor? My laptop saved my ass as it also let me record the lecture. I actually proved that an answer on a test I took was correct according to his lecture example.</p><p>I think the issue at hand is that students are doing other things on their laptops. Unfortunately that's the students responsibility. In college if that student needs a parent to watch over them then they shouldn't be in college. Period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People learn very differently and retain information differently .
My parents are a great example .
My father can read a book and recite passages and facts about the entire book .
My mother on the other hand has to read the book , mark references , and look back at her notes before she 's ready to " recall " facts.College is no different .
Just because someone has to take notes and study does n't mean there is anything wrong with them or that they are stupid .
It 's how they learn.A laptop is a much more efficient and " readable " note taking device .
Ever take notes that you ca n't read for the life of you because you 're trying to keep up with the professor ?
My laptop saved my ass as it also let me record the lecture .
I actually proved that an answer on a test I took was correct according to his lecture example.I think the issue at hand is that students are doing other things on their laptops .
Unfortunately that 's the students responsibility .
In college if that student needs a parent to watch over them then they should n't be in college .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People learn very differently and retain information differently.
My parents are a great example.
My father can read a book and recite passages and facts about the entire book.
My mother on the other hand has to read the book, mark references, and look back at her notes before she's ready to "recall" facts.College is no different.
Just because someone has to take notes and study doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them or that they are stupid.
It's how they learn.A laptop is a much more efficient and "readable" note taking device.
Ever take notes that you can't read for the life of you because you're trying to keep up with the professor?
My laptop saved my ass as it also let me record the lecture.
I actually proved that an answer on a test I took was correct according to his lecture example.I think the issue at hand is that students are doing other things on their laptops.
Unfortunately that's the students responsibility.
In college if that student needs a parent to watch over them then they shouldn't be in college.
Period.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427046</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268240460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well said, man.  The larger problem is that the upcoming generations have to be 'entertained' to pay attention, instead of just being able to focus and learn presented information.  They are under constant media bombardment, and this is partially the result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well said , man .
The larger problem is that the upcoming generations have to be 'entertained ' to pay attention , instead of just being able to focus and learn presented information .
They are under constant media bombardment , and this is partially the result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well said, man.
The larger problem is that the upcoming generations have to be 'entertained' to pay attention, instead of just being able to focus and learn presented information.
They are under constant media bombardment, and this is partially the result.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429448</id>
	<title>education is all backwards</title>
	<author>TRRosen</author>
	<datestamp>1268251860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you noticed that education is the only business where the customer is always wrong.</p><p>Professors are paid by the students but the professors tell the students how to act.</p><p>Employees (profs) park right in front of the building and the customers (students) park in the next zip code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you noticed that education is the only business where the customer is always wrong.Professors are paid by the students but the professors tell the students how to act.Employees ( profs ) park right in front of the building and the customers ( students ) park in the next zip code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you noticed that education is the only business where the customer is always wrong.Professors are paid by the students but the professors tell the students how to act.Employees (profs) park right in front of the building and the customers (students) park in the next zip code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425486</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you discuss in class how laptop use may damage your mastery of spelling and grammar?</p><p>Just wondering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you discuss in class how laptop use may damage your mastery of spelling and grammar ? Just wondering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you discuss in class how laptop use may damage your mastery of spelling and grammar?Just wondering.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425950</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268235780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You haven't been in a college recently, I suspect.  College students are far too often children in many ways and professors are expected to cajole and amuse them into doing whatever is currently the low expectation for courses.   Professors that don't do that can have serious problems keeping their jobs.   Expecting students to do more than a couple of hours a week of work outside the class is far too demanding.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have n't been in a college recently , I suspect .
College students are far too often children in many ways and professors are expected to cajole and amuse them into doing whatever is currently the low expectation for courses .
Professors that do n't do that can have serious problems keeping their jobs .
Expecting students to do more than a couple of hours a week of work outside the class is far too demanding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You haven't been in a college recently, I suspect.
College students are far too often children in many ways and professors are expected to cajole and amuse them into doing whatever is currently the low expectation for courses.
Professors that don't do that can have serious problems keeping their jobs.
Expecting students to do more than a couple of hours a week of work outside the class is far too demanding.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425884</id>
	<title>Using ONLY iPad or Tablet PC?</title>
	<author>zix619</author>
	<datestamp>1268235480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps a way to go is to permit only using slate machines, ex iPad or Table PCs. This way, you have the power of digital media and at the same time, it's much harder to play games or social networking in the class? Just an idea!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps a way to go is to permit only using slate machines , ex iPad or Table PCs .
This way , you have the power of digital media and at the same time , it 's much harder to play games or social networking in the class ?
Just an idea !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps a way to go is to permit only using slate machines, ex iPad or Table PCs.
This way, you have the power of digital media and at the same time, it's much harder to play games or social networking in the class?
Just an idea!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31430606</id>
	<title>Re:good move</title>
	<author>Doctor Faustus</author>
	<datestamp>1268213880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.</i><br>No, that distraction keeps you at only half-asleep, vs. all the way asleep.</p><p>Games are a bad idea, though, unless they're turn-based.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.No , that distraction keeps you at only half-asleep , vs. all the way asleep.Games are a bad idea , though , unless they 're turn-based .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That coupled with the fact that most of the time you are half asleep and would die for something else to do and allowing a distraction like a laptop or even a cell phone becomes a really horrible idea.No, that distraction keeps you at only half-asleep, vs. all the way asleep.Games are a bad idea, though, unless they're turn-based.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425658</id>
	<title>Dysgraphia</title>
	<author>spottedkangaroo</author>
	<datestamp>1268233980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about anyone else, but when I was an undergrad, I was a solid C- student.  Part of this was my complete inability to take notes in any meaningful way.

<p> The ability to bring my laptop to class to take notes has changed me to an A+ student.  I now have an exact and perfect 4.0 GPA with only two classes left on my masters degree.  For me, the biggest difference has been really complete notes.  Not only do I find that the notes help later, but I find I'm able to concentrate about 4000\% better than I used to when I didn't have anything to focus on.

</p><p> For me and other dysgraphia sufferers (and if you're wondering tests are a serious problem still, but fortunately I test really fast so I just take lots of breaks); I'd expect an exception.  And if I didn't get one, I'd head right the fuck down to the Disability Student Resource Center to get them to force the professor to be less of a fucking douchebag.

</p><p> Yes, I do see some students reading random web pages and playing games during a lecture, but I fail to see how this is a problem for the university since they'll just end up taking the class again to refill the slot with the W/I (withdraw incomplete) in it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about anyone else , but when I was an undergrad , I was a solid C- student .
Part of this was my complete inability to take notes in any meaningful way .
The ability to bring my laptop to class to take notes has changed me to an A + student .
I now have an exact and perfect 4.0 GPA with only two classes left on my masters degree .
For me , the biggest difference has been really complete notes .
Not only do I find that the notes help later , but I find I 'm able to concentrate about 4000 \ % better than I used to when I did n't have anything to focus on .
For me and other dysgraphia sufferers ( and if you 're wondering tests are a serious problem still , but fortunately I test really fast so I just take lots of breaks ) ; I 'd expect an exception .
And if I did n't get one , I 'd head right the fuck down to the Disability Student Resource Center to get them to force the professor to be less of a fucking douchebag .
Yes , I do see some students reading random web pages and playing games during a lecture , but I fail to see how this is a problem for the university since they 'll just end up taking the class again to refill the slot with the W/I ( withdraw incomplete ) in it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about anyone else, but when I was an undergrad, I was a solid C- student.
Part of this was my complete inability to take notes in any meaningful way.
The ability to bring my laptop to class to take notes has changed me to an A+ student.
I now have an exact and perfect 4.0 GPA with only two classes left on my masters degree.
For me, the biggest difference has been really complete notes.
Not only do I find that the notes help later, but I find I'm able to concentrate about 4000\% better than I used to when I didn't have anything to focus on.
For me and other dysgraphia sufferers (and if you're wondering tests are a serious problem still, but fortunately I test really fast so I just take lots of breaks); I'd expect an exception.
And if I didn't get one, I'd head right the fuck down to the Disability Student Resource Center to get them to force the professor to be less of a fucking douchebag.
Yes, I do see some students reading random web pages and playing games during a lecture, but I fail to see how this is a problem for the university since they'll just end up taking the class again to refill the slot with the W/I (withdraw incomplete) in it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31453750</id>
	<title>Re:another way to attack this</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1268419500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meh. I've had classes that were so incoherent that students had no choice but to switch off when the professor proceeded to write obscure things on the board at lightning speed purely for self-satisfaction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meh .
I 've had classes that were so incoherent that students had no choice but to switch off when the professor proceeded to write obscure things on the board at lightning speed purely for self-satisfaction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meh.
I've had classes that were so incoherent that students had no choice but to switch off when the professor proceeded to write obscure things on the board at lightning speed purely for self-satisfaction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426544</id>
	<title>Re:Prof's need feedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this case, there is evidence that the professor needs more interactive classroom discussions.  I went through aerospace engineering and even in this field there was not near enough classroom interactions.  Everyone would leave class and look over example problems/homework and try to piece together information from the book and from the notes to figure out what was going on.  I don't remember a single case in college where a student went to the board and the class worked together through discussion to logically solve the problem.  This always happened outside of class without the professor there to point us in the right direction.  There was the occasional office visit conveniently timed along other scheduled classes...I guess that what $30k a year gets you...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this case , there is evidence that the professor needs more interactive classroom discussions .
I went through aerospace engineering and even in this field there was not near enough classroom interactions .
Everyone would leave class and look over example problems/homework and try to piece together information from the book and from the notes to figure out what was going on .
I do n't remember a single case in college where a student went to the board and the class worked together through discussion to logically solve the problem .
This always happened outside of class without the professor there to point us in the right direction .
There was the occasional office visit conveniently timed along other scheduled classes...I guess that what $ 30k a year gets you.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this case, there is evidence that the professor needs more interactive classroom discussions.
I went through aerospace engineering and even in this field there was not near enough classroom interactions.
Everyone would leave class and look over example problems/homework and try to piece together information from the book and from the notes to figure out what was going on.
I don't remember a single case in college where a student went to the board and the class worked together through discussion to logically solve the problem.
This always happened outside of class without the professor there to point us in the right direction.
There was the occasional office visit conveniently timed along other scheduled classes...I guess that what $30k a year gets you...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425248</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31431808</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268219460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, even more simple than having wi-fi blockers is simply to give the profs the opportunity to turn the routers in their room off for the class period, or even put in a request to the IT department that the access is scheduled to shut off during class time (you can do that with many routers). While it wouldn't completely cut out on distractions, it would greatly reduce them. I've ran into a class where everything more advanced than a digital watch was forbidden, and another class where the professor didn't mind if we were IM'ing other students because  in our specific case it was inevitably about the class and inevitably either contributed to discussion or answered a question that a student would have otherwise asked the professor.</p><p>That said, almost every day I had a class where I'd have to climb up four stories of stairs (the elevator was in a restricted part of the building, and therefore reserved for people w/ disabilities) so my laptop was just too heavy to haul around like that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , even more simple than having wi-fi blockers is simply to give the profs the opportunity to turn the routers in their room off for the class period , or even put in a request to the IT department that the access is scheduled to shut off during class time ( you can do that with many routers ) .
While it would n't completely cut out on distractions , it would greatly reduce them .
I 've ran into a class where everything more advanced than a digital watch was forbidden , and another class where the professor did n't mind if we were IM'ing other students because in our specific case it was inevitably about the class and inevitably either contributed to discussion or answered a question that a student would have otherwise asked the professor.That said , almost every day I had a class where I 'd have to climb up four stories of stairs ( the elevator was in a restricted part of the building , and therefore reserved for people w/ disabilities ) so my laptop was just too heavy to haul around like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, even more simple than having wi-fi blockers is simply to give the profs the opportunity to turn the routers in their room off for the class period, or even put in a request to the IT department that the access is scheduled to shut off during class time (you can do that with many routers).
While it wouldn't completely cut out on distractions, it would greatly reduce them.
I've ran into a class where everything more advanced than a digital watch was forbidden, and another class where the professor didn't mind if we were IM'ing other students because  in our specific case it was inevitably about the class and inevitably either contributed to discussion or answered a question that a student would have otherwise asked the professor.That said, almost every day I had a class where I'd have to climb up four stories of stairs (the elevator was in a restricted part of the building, and therefore reserved for people w/ disabilities) so my laptop was just too heavy to haul around like that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31453612</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1268418900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good for you. I've had lecturers that were boring and drab, and did nothing other than copy a textbook to the board. And ones who were apparently highy respected and certainly had insightful things to say, but they were things that were irrelevant to the subject matter and totally inapropriate for a freshman course who had yet to learn the basics.<br>After all, that's what most lectures are intended for, at least the mass-attended ones. If you can't convey the subject in an interesting manner any better than a textbook, you lecture is entirely superfluous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good for you .
I 've had lecturers that were boring and drab , and did nothing other than copy a textbook to the board .
And ones who were apparently highy respected and certainly had insightful things to say , but they were things that were irrelevant to the subject matter and totally inapropriate for a freshman course who had yet to learn the basics.After all , that 's what most lectures are intended for , at least the mass-attended ones .
If you ca n't convey the subject in an interesting manner any better than a textbook , you lecture is entirely superfluous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good for you.
I've had lecturers that were boring and drab, and did nothing other than copy a textbook to the board.
And ones who were apparently highy respected and certainly had insightful things to say, but they were things that were irrelevant to the subject matter and totally inapropriate for a freshman course who had yet to learn the basics.After all, that's what most lectures are intended for, at least the mass-attended ones.
If you can't convey the subject in an interesting manner any better than a textbook, you lecture is entirely superfluous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31429940</id>
	<title>Re:another way to attack this</title>
	<author>Rich0</author>
	<datestamp>1268253960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A recent Frontline actually dealt with this issue.</p><p>There is a lot of politics involved in grading.  A professor can't simply fail half their class if they aren't paying attention.  Some subjects are hard to learn even if you're 100\% focused on the class, even with a good professor.</p><p>The interviewed professors felt that they were compelled to simplify the material so that the class could pass tests, which lowers the quality of the educational experience.  That lowers the value of the degree for anybody who actually was paying in class as well.</p><p>Personally I'm fine with letting people use laptops all they want in class, but I'd have a hard rule on no distracting imagines on the laptop, which includes anything involving on-screen motion.  As somebody else pointed out, human brains are hard-wired to detect motion - most people just aren't mentally capable of ignoring it and I'm not sure they should be required to.  I'd also set policy that classes are to cover a set curriculum and if some can't keep up that is too bad for them.</p><p>However, you'll never see this happen, because like most modern institutions colleges are designed to maximize income and self-perpetuate, and you don't accomplish that normally by kicking people out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A recent Frontline actually dealt with this issue.There is a lot of politics involved in grading .
A professor ca n't simply fail half their class if they are n't paying attention .
Some subjects are hard to learn even if you 're 100 \ % focused on the class , even with a good professor.The interviewed professors felt that they were compelled to simplify the material so that the class could pass tests , which lowers the quality of the educational experience .
That lowers the value of the degree for anybody who actually was paying in class as well.Personally I 'm fine with letting people use laptops all they want in class , but I 'd have a hard rule on no distracting imagines on the laptop , which includes anything involving on-screen motion .
As somebody else pointed out , human brains are hard-wired to detect motion - most people just are n't mentally capable of ignoring it and I 'm not sure they should be required to .
I 'd also set policy that classes are to cover a set curriculum and if some ca n't keep up that is too bad for them.However , you 'll never see this happen , because like most modern institutions colleges are designed to maximize income and self-perpetuate , and you do n't accomplish that normally by kicking people out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A recent Frontline actually dealt with this issue.There is a lot of politics involved in grading.
A professor can't simply fail half their class if they aren't paying attention.
Some subjects are hard to learn even if you're 100\% focused on the class, even with a good professor.The interviewed professors felt that they were compelled to simplify the material so that the class could pass tests, which lowers the quality of the educational experience.
That lowers the value of the degree for anybody who actually was paying in class as well.Personally I'm fine with letting people use laptops all they want in class, but I'd have a hard rule on no distracting imagines on the laptop, which includes anything involving on-screen motion.
As somebody else pointed out, human brains are hard-wired to detect motion - most people just aren't mentally capable of ignoring it and I'm not sure they should be required to.
I'd also set policy that classes are to cover a set curriculum and if some can't keep up that is too bad for them.However, you'll never see this happen, because like most modern institutions colleges are designed to maximize income and self-perpetuate, and you don't accomplish that normally by kicking people out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425518</id>
	<title>Re:None of there Buisness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>And besides whose paying the tuition?</p></div></blockquote><p>Your parents.  And the government. Judging by your language skills, it's been substantially wasted.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And besides whose paying the tuition ? Your parents .
And the government .
Judging by your language skills , it 's been substantially wasted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And besides whose paying the tuition?Your parents.
And the government.
Judging by your language skills, it's been substantially wasted.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425668</id>
	<title>I always thought...</title>
	<author>KDEWolf</author>
	<datestamp>1268234040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...that laptops and notebooks were the same thing.

Damn, I feel young at 23. =)</htmltext>
<tokenext>...that laptops and notebooks were the same thing .
Damn , I feel young at 23 .
= )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...that laptops and notebooks were the same thing.
Damn, I feel young at 23.
=)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425256</id>
	<title>Not engaging the class?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268232120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not flaming, but if my students are not listening, interacting and retaining, then it's a sure sign to me that I'm not being interesting and effective.<br>Look in the mirror guys, instead of shooting the tech messenger again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not flaming , but if my students are not listening , interacting and retaining , then it 's a sure sign to me that I 'm not being interesting and effective.Look in the mirror guys , instead of shooting the tech messenger again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not flaming, but if my students are not listening, interacting and retaining, then it's a sure sign to me that I'm not being interesting and effective.Look in the mirror guys, instead of shooting the tech messenger again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425812</id>
	<title>Big Picture</title>
	<author>Drasham</author>
	<datestamp>1268235000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that many people are losing sight of the bigger picture. <br> <br>
That being that the sudents are the paying customers, and barring negatively impacting other students (paying customers) why/how can the school dictate how a student (paying customer) utilizes the offered service?<br> <br>
While I do understand that there are always those that can/will be a distraction to others, those cases should be a case by case basis.<br> <br>
If it's someone's choice to goof off during class, that will be reflected in their work while those who are paying attention will do well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that many people are losing sight of the bigger picture .
That being that the sudents are the paying customers , and barring negatively impacting other students ( paying customers ) why/how can the school dictate how a student ( paying customer ) utilizes the offered service ?
While I do understand that there are always those that can/will be a distraction to others , those cases should be a case by case basis .
If it 's someone 's choice to goof off during class , that will be reflected in their work while those who are paying attention will do well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that many people are losing sight of the bigger picture.
That being that the sudents are the paying customers, and barring negatively impacting other students (paying customers) why/how can the school dictate how a student (paying customer) utilizes the offered service?
While I do understand that there are always those that can/will be a distraction to others, those cases should be a case by case basis.
If it's someone's choice to goof off during class, that will be reflected in their work while those who are paying attention will do well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427108</id>
	<title>good for the professors</title>
	<author>shop S Mart</author>
	<datestamp>1268240760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good for the teachers, it's their classroom so if they don't want computers it's their call and it's not like they don't tell the students on the first day of class what their policies are either verbally or in the syllabus.  You don't like their rules drop the class and add a new one.
Or do what one of my profs did and make all laptop users sit in the front row so when she's wandering around lecturing it's easy for her to see what the students are up to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good for the teachers , it 's their classroom so if they do n't want computers it 's their call and it 's not like they do n't tell the students on the first day of class what their policies are either verbally or in the syllabus .
You do n't like their rules drop the class and add a new one .
Or do what one of my profs did and make all laptop users sit in the front row so when she 's wandering around lecturing it 's easy for her to see what the students are up to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good for the teachers, it's their classroom so if they don't want computers it's their call and it's not like they don't tell the students on the first day of class what their policies are either verbally or in the syllabus.
You don't like their rules drop the class and add a new one.
Or do what one of my profs did and make all laptop users sit in the front row so when she's wandering around lecturing it's easy for her to see what the students are up to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425720</id>
	<title>Personally</title>
	<author>MBGMorden</author>
	<datestamp>1268234400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was on the tail end of the laptop phenomenon.  I was in Clemson from 1999 to 2003, and I think as of 2001 they required all incoming Freshmen to have a laptop (I was required as I wasn't a freshman, but I ended up getting one anyways, though I used it rarely compared to my desktop).  Only class I ever ended up carrying the thing to was a history class that I took as a senior that required laptops - all tests and such were done in-class, on the laptop, and electronically submitted.</p><p>And you know what?  I'll admit I goofed off a lot in that class.  Surfing the web, looking around on eBay, doing whatever.  My grades didn't really suffer - the class was pretty easy and I still got an A, but I don't think my experience was enhanced at all by having the laptop around.  I can only imagine that the last 7 years have increased the number of "random stuff to do on the internet" even farther.</p><p>While banning laptops entirely might be a bit far to go, I can honestly say that I don't think that the original value of laptops as stated is what they were cracked up to be.  Honestly though, in the classes I did best in, I naturally didn't have the laptop, but I also took very, very few notes.  What I found is that if I was taking notes, I wasn't really paying attention to the professor - I was writing the whole time.  And I was MOSTLY writing stuff that was in the text book anyways.  I found that I just did plain better if I put my pen down, truly paid attention to the lecturer (just sit there and listen), and then went back and skimmed over the text later.  I probably should have employed a voice recorder, but never did bother.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was on the tail end of the laptop phenomenon .
I was in Clemson from 1999 to 2003 , and I think as of 2001 they required all incoming Freshmen to have a laptop ( I was required as I was n't a freshman , but I ended up getting one anyways , though I used it rarely compared to my desktop ) .
Only class I ever ended up carrying the thing to was a history class that I took as a senior that required laptops - all tests and such were done in-class , on the laptop , and electronically submitted.And you know what ?
I 'll admit I goofed off a lot in that class .
Surfing the web , looking around on eBay , doing whatever .
My grades did n't really suffer - the class was pretty easy and I still got an A , but I do n't think my experience was enhanced at all by having the laptop around .
I can only imagine that the last 7 years have increased the number of " random stuff to do on the internet " even farther.While banning laptops entirely might be a bit far to go , I can honestly say that I do n't think that the original value of laptops as stated is what they were cracked up to be .
Honestly though , in the classes I did best in , I naturally did n't have the laptop , but I also took very , very few notes .
What I found is that if I was taking notes , I was n't really paying attention to the professor - I was writing the whole time .
And I was MOSTLY writing stuff that was in the text book anyways .
I found that I just did plain better if I put my pen down , truly paid attention to the lecturer ( just sit there and listen ) , and then went back and skimmed over the text later .
I probably should have employed a voice recorder , but never did bother .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was on the tail end of the laptop phenomenon.
I was in Clemson from 1999 to 2003, and I think as of 2001 they required all incoming Freshmen to have a laptop (I was required as I wasn't a freshman, but I ended up getting one anyways, though I used it rarely compared to my desktop).
Only class I ever ended up carrying the thing to was a history class that I took as a senior that required laptops - all tests and such were done in-class, on the laptop, and electronically submitted.And you know what?
I'll admit I goofed off a lot in that class.
Surfing the web, looking around on eBay, doing whatever.
My grades didn't really suffer - the class was pretty easy and I still got an A, but I don't think my experience was enhanced at all by having the laptop around.
I can only imagine that the last 7 years have increased the number of "random stuff to do on the internet" even farther.While banning laptops entirely might be a bit far to go, I can honestly say that I don't think that the original value of laptops as stated is what they were cracked up to be.
Honestly though, in the classes I did best in, I naturally didn't have the laptop, but I also took very, very few notes.
What I found is that if I was taking notes, I wasn't really paying attention to the professor - I was writing the whole time.
And I was MOSTLY writing stuff that was in the text book anyways.
I found that I just did plain better if I put my pen down, truly paid attention to the lecturer (just sit there and listen), and then went back and skimmed over the text later.
I probably should have employed a voice recorder, but never did bother.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425926</id>
	<title>Re:A novel idea: be a better teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268235720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>oh please. every human likes an engaging speaker. sure they don't need to do parlor tricks or balance on a unicycle while juggling chainsaws and still trying to teach, but having passion and a ph.d. level of understanding for a subject is what makes a good speaker. I had plenty of classes with not only very foreign (accented) but very boring teachers- the combination of which was unbearable and unintelligable as well as useless. I dropped several of those classes, and my education suffered. I'm of the opinion you should not be in a teaching position if you're not the least bit understandable or even remotely good at teaching. The problem is, you get your Ph.D. and suddenly you're expected to be a good teacher. Having a Ph.D doesn't make you a good teacher, it just makes you smart. Universities must must must filter the bad teachers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>oh please .
every human likes an engaging speaker .
sure they do n't need to do parlor tricks or balance on a unicycle while juggling chainsaws and still trying to teach , but having passion and a ph.d. level of understanding for a subject is what makes a good speaker .
I had plenty of classes with not only very foreign ( accented ) but very boring teachers- the combination of which was unbearable and unintelligable as well as useless .
I dropped several of those classes , and my education suffered .
I 'm of the opinion you should not be in a teaching position if you 're not the least bit understandable or even remotely good at teaching .
The problem is , you get your Ph.D. and suddenly you 're expected to be a good teacher .
Having a Ph.D does n't make you a good teacher , it just makes you smart .
Universities must must must filter the bad teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oh please.
every human likes an engaging speaker.
sure they don't need to do parlor tricks or balance on a unicycle while juggling chainsaws and still trying to teach, but having passion and a ph.d. level of understanding for a subject is what makes a good speaker.
I had plenty of classes with not only very foreign (accented) but very boring teachers- the combination of which was unbearable and unintelligable as well as useless.
I dropped several of those classes, and my education suffered.
I'm of the opinion you should not be in a teaching position if you're not the least bit understandable or even remotely good at teaching.
The problem is, you get your Ph.D. and suddenly you're expected to be a good teacher.
Having a Ph.D doesn't make you a good teacher, it just makes you smart.
Universities must must must filter the bad teachers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427164</id>
	<title>Incorrectly assigning blame</title>
	<author>Admodieus</author>
	<datestamp>1268241000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a current college student, I use my laptop (OneNote ftw) often for note taking. However, during a really boring class, even I'll start surfing the web. I notice a lot of students playing games, watching movies, doing online shopping, etc.<br> <br>

However, instead of just banning laptops, there's a lot that the professors and university can do to make students want to pay attention. First off, Powerpoint has ruined the university lecture. Most textbooks will come with companion slidesets for each chapter, so often a professor will just throw those up on the board and reiterate the same content TO THE WORD that is in the chapter. You're basically paying whatever your university's undergraduate or credit rate is for an audiobook of that textbook.<br> <br>

Also, a lot of professors these days come unprepared for lecture, especially because they feel like they can just use the textbook powerpoint as a crutch if the need arises. I can't tell you how many classes I've sat in over the past year where the professor is teaching material out of order or not relevant to the current reading or homeworks. <br> <br>

Lastly, many professors have become incredibly boring and prone to ramble about personal anecdotes. I just had a server technology class where the professor droned on every class about some single incident in his own experience that wasn't even related to servers half the time. He also spent a good amount of time talking about the Toyota issue. Why would I want to pay attention to that?<br> <br>

If the university wants to ban laptops in classrooms, they should look inward and reevaluate their own faculty first. If they still want to ban technology in the classroom, extend that to the professor as well - I'd gladly pay attention to see how many of these professors and doctors can't swim without their beloved Powerpoint.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a current college student , I use my laptop ( OneNote ftw ) often for note taking .
However , during a really boring class , even I 'll start surfing the web .
I notice a lot of students playing games , watching movies , doing online shopping , etc .
However , instead of just banning laptops , there 's a lot that the professors and university can do to make students want to pay attention .
First off , Powerpoint has ruined the university lecture .
Most textbooks will come with companion slidesets for each chapter , so often a professor will just throw those up on the board and reiterate the same content TO THE WORD that is in the chapter .
You 're basically paying whatever your university 's undergraduate or credit rate is for an audiobook of that textbook .
Also , a lot of professors these days come unprepared for lecture , especially because they feel like they can just use the textbook powerpoint as a crutch if the need arises .
I ca n't tell you how many classes I 've sat in over the past year where the professor is teaching material out of order or not relevant to the current reading or homeworks .
Lastly , many professors have become incredibly boring and prone to ramble about personal anecdotes .
I just had a server technology class where the professor droned on every class about some single incident in his own experience that was n't even related to servers half the time .
He also spent a good amount of time talking about the Toyota issue .
Why would I want to pay attention to that ?
If the university wants to ban laptops in classrooms , they should look inward and reevaluate their own faculty first .
If they still want to ban technology in the classroom , extend that to the professor as well - I 'd gladly pay attention to see how many of these professors and doctors ca n't swim without their beloved Powerpoint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a current college student, I use my laptop (OneNote ftw) often for note taking.
However, during a really boring class, even I'll start surfing the web.
I notice a lot of students playing games, watching movies, doing online shopping, etc.
However, instead of just banning laptops, there's a lot that the professors and university can do to make students want to pay attention.
First off, Powerpoint has ruined the university lecture.
Most textbooks will come with companion slidesets for each chapter, so often a professor will just throw those up on the board and reiterate the same content TO THE WORD that is in the chapter.
You're basically paying whatever your university's undergraduate or credit rate is for an audiobook of that textbook.
Also, a lot of professors these days come unprepared for lecture, especially because they feel like they can just use the textbook powerpoint as a crutch if the need arises.
I can't tell you how many classes I've sat in over the past year where the professor is teaching material out of order or not relevant to the current reading or homeworks.
Lastly, many professors have become incredibly boring and prone to ramble about personal anecdotes.
I just had a server technology class where the professor droned on every class about some single incident in his own experience that wasn't even related to servers half the time.
He also spent a good amount of time talking about the Toyota issue.
Why would I want to pay attention to that?
If the university wants to ban laptops in classrooms, they should look inward and reevaluate their own faculty first.
If they still want to ban technology in the classroom, extend that to the professor as well - I'd gladly pay attention to see how many of these professors and doctors can't swim without their beloved Powerpoint.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31428464</id>
	<title>Re:another way to attack this</title>
	<author>TeethWhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1268247240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If students are able to not pay attention, and still do well (enough) in classes, then make the classes more difficult.</p></div><p>
Two words:  grade inflation.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If students are able to not pay attention , and still do well ( enough ) in classes , then make the classes more difficult .
Two words : grade inflation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If students are able to not pay attention, and still do well (enough) in classes, then make the classes more difficult.
Two words:  grade inflation.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427242</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop notes</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1268241300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres."<br> <br>

That is exactly what came to mind when I saw this article:  the problem is not the laptops, it is that fact that they are constantly connected to the Internet.  Just request that WiFi be disabled in the lecture halls, and suddenly laptops are not a distraction, but a note-taking tool with the potential to do a lot more than pen and paper could.<br> <br>

Yes, a determined student could find a way around this, but if students are determined to not pay attention, the problem is much deeper than laptops...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres .
" That is exactly what came to mind when I saw this article : the problem is not the laptops , it is that fact that they are constantly connected to the Internet .
Just request that WiFi be disabled in the lecture halls , and suddenly laptops are not a distraction , but a note-taking tool with the potential to do a lot more than pen and paper could .
Yes , a determined student could find a way around this , but if students are determined to not pay attention , the problem is much deeper than laptops.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I could handle blocking wi-fi in lecture theatres.
" 

That is exactly what came to mind when I saw this article:  the problem is not the laptops, it is that fact that they are constantly connected to the Internet.
Just request that WiFi be disabled in the lecture halls, and suddenly laptops are not a distraction, but a note-taking tool with the potential to do a lot more than pen and paper could.
Yes, a determined student could find a way around this, but if students are determined to not pay attention, the problem is much deeper than laptops...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425266</id>
	<title>How about typewriters? Would this guy be banned?</title>
	<author>Morris Thorpe</author>
	<datestamp>1268232120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My favorite is the "ding" at the end.<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L29BCQFfqVo" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L29BCQFfqVo</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My favorite is the " ding " at the end.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = L29BCQFfqVo [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My favorite is the "ding" at the end.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L29BCQFfqVo [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31427118</id>
	<title>Re:False analogy.</title>
	<author>kainewynd2</author>
	<datestamp>1268240820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is a highly irrational conceit, and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.</p></div><p>Or apparently how awesome you are.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p><p>NOTE: This post (mine) is total flamebait... any suggestions to the contrary would just be incorrect...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a highly irrational conceit , and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.Or apparently how awesome you are .
: DNOTE : This post ( mine ) is total flamebait... any suggestions to the contrary would just be incorrect... : p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a highly irrational conceit, and does not take into account the different degrees with which different people are able to multitask and/or focus.Or apparently how awesome you are.
:DNOTE: This post (mine) is total flamebait... any suggestions to the contrary would just be incorrect... :p
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425280</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426160</id>
	<title>Witless stenographers ?</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1268236740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have been studying without a single laptop in the classroom and I can confirm that for a witless stenographer a laptop is completely useless. Pen and papers work the same quite fine. There is a solution to remove this behavior, some of my teachers adopted it : to provide each student with a copy of the class ! Usually we note one these copies little details and focus more on the understanding of the matter being taught. <br> <br>
It was not widely popular however because teachers who were poor speakers and bad explainers usually ended up with no student in the room as the copy provided them with the complete class.<br> <br>
Teachers, don't be like the **AA : computers and internet change the way to do things. Don't fight the change, embrace it !</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been studying without a single laptop in the classroom and I can confirm that for a witless stenographer a laptop is completely useless .
Pen and papers work the same quite fine .
There is a solution to remove this behavior , some of my teachers adopted it : to provide each student with a copy of the class !
Usually we note one these copies little details and focus more on the understanding of the matter being taught .
It was not widely popular however because teachers who were poor speakers and bad explainers usually ended up with no student in the room as the copy provided them with the complete class .
Teachers , do n't be like the * * AA : computers and internet change the way to do things .
Do n't fight the change , embrace it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been studying without a single laptop in the classroom and I can confirm that for a witless stenographer a laptop is completely useless.
Pen and papers work the same quite fine.
There is a solution to remove this behavior, some of my teachers adopted it : to provide each student with a copy of the class !
Usually we note one these copies little details and focus more on the understanding of the matter being taught.
It was not widely popular however because teachers who were poor speakers and bad explainers usually ended up with no student in the room as the copy provided them with the complete class.
Teachers, don't be like the **AA : computers and internet change the way to do things.
Don't fight the change, embrace it !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31426114</id>
	<title>Bring the noise</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1268236560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ever sat next to someone on a plane who was clackity-clacking away on their keyboard for the entire flight? Well, multiply that by about 30-50 times and you'll get an idea of just how annoying a classroom full of people taking notes on the laptops can be. I wouldn't care if people used laptops, if it wasn't so fucking noisy. If they want to keep laptops in the classroom, fine, but they should require students to use some sort of quiet keyboard. The last class I was in, I just wanted to pull my hair out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever sat next to someone on a plane who was clackity-clacking away on their keyboard for the entire flight ?
Well , multiply that by about 30-50 times and you 'll get an idea of just how annoying a classroom full of people taking notes on the laptops can be .
I would n't care if people used laptops , if it was n't so fucking noisy .
If they want to keep laptops in the classroom , fine , but they should require students to use some sort of quiet keyboard .
The last class I was in , I just wanted to pull my hair out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever sat next to someone on a plane who was clackity-clacking away on their keyboard for the entire flight?
Well, multiply that by about 30-50 times and you'll get an idea of just how annoying a classroom full of people taking notes on the laptops can be.
I wouldn't care if people used laptops, if it wasn't so fucking noisy.
If they want to keep laptops in the classroom, fine, but they should require students to use some sort of quiet keyboard.
The last class I was in, I just wanted to pull my hair out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_10_019234.31425098</parent>
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