<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_09_1310210</id>
	<title>US Immigration Bill May Bring a National Biometric ID Card</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1268142960000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>schwit1 sends this quote from the Wall Street Journal:
<i>"Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill have settled on a way to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants: a national biometric identification card <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ\_hpp\_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird">all American workers would eventually be required to obtain</a>. Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal US workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker. ... A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand. It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said. The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>schwit1 sends this quote from the Wall Street Journal : " Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill have settled on a way to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants : a national biometric identification card all American workers would eventually be required to obtain .
Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate , all legal US workers , including citizens and immigrants , would be issued an ID card with embedded information , such as fingerprints , to tie the card to the worker .
... A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand .
It would be required of all workers , including teenagers , but would be phased in , with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs , the person said .
The card requirement also would be phased in among employers , beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>schwit1 sends this quote from the Wall Street Journal:
"Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill have settled on a way to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants: a national biometric identification card all American workers would eventually be required to obtain.
Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal US workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.
... A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand.
It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said.
The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413828</id>
	<title>Government Databases</title>
	<author>ericlj</author>
	<datestamp>1268150940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Think how many people would be unable to take jobs if just 1\% of the checks returned false negatives. Who wants to wait while the INS (or other agency) decides they might have made a mistake and will update the database in the next annual batch? I like to eat and I have to pay bills; I'd prefer to take the chance that someone will hire a few illegal aliens to this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think how many people would be unable to take jobs if just 1 \ % of the checks returned false negatives .
Who wants to wait while the INS ( or other agency ) decides they might have made a mistake and will update the database in the next annual batch ?
I like to eat and I have to pay bills ; I 'd prefer to take the chance that someone will hire a few illegal aliens to this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think how many people would be unable to take jobs if just 1\% of the checks returned false negatives.
Who wants to wait while the INS (or other agency) decides they might have made a mistake and will update the database in the next annual batch?
I like to eat and I have to pay bills; I'd prefer to take the chance that someone will hire a few illegal aliens to this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418326</id>
	<title>get ready!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268125860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just watch if this card becomes reality....  The card will be turned into the replacement for the social security card.  Accepted everywhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just watch if this card becomes reality.... The card will be turned into the replacement for the social security card .
Accepted everywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just watch if this card becomes reality....  The card will be turned into the replacement for the social security card.
Accepted everywhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413592</id>
	<title>Re:Tie this in to drivers license, and passport</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1268149860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Make it so this card also has my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... passport</p></div><p>Not going to work.  International treaties specify how passports work.  Some customs inspector in Zimbabwe can read and stamp your passport, but would have no idea what to do with a plastic card.</p><p>Also, if its electronic, you can erase stuff, and historically there is nothing arab nations customs inspectors like better than to harass people with Israeli stamps in their passports (and probably vice versa).  They will not be amused with the idea of erasable entries.  And of course, if you can intentionally erase entries, you can accidentally erase entries.  And if you can accidentally erase entries, it'll be mighty hard to prove anything was intentionally erased.  So whats the point of stamping an electronic passport anyway, since only non-crooks will bother?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Make it so this card also has my ... passportNot going to work .
International treaties specify how passports work .
Some customs inspector in Zimbabwe can read and stamp your passport , but would have no idea what to do with a plastic card.Also , if its electronic , you can erase stuff , and historically there is nothing arab nations customs inspectors like better than to harass people with Israeli stamps in their passports ( and probably vice versa ) .
They will not be amused with the idea of erasable entries .
And of course , if you can intentionally erase entries , you can accidentally erase entries .
And if you can accidentally erase entries , it 'll be mighty hard to prove anything was intentionally erased .
So whats the point of stamping an electronic passport anyway , since only non-crooks will bother ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make it so this card also has my ... passportNot going to work.
International treaties specify how passports work.
Some customs inspector in Zimbabwe can read and stamp your passport, but would have no idea what to do with a plastic card.Also, if its electronic, you can erase stuff, and historically there is nothing arab nations customs inspectors like better than to harass people with Israeli stamps in their passports (and probably vice versa).
They will not be amused with the idea of erasable entries.
And of course, if you can intentionally erase entries, you can accidentally erase entries.
And if you can accidentally erase entries, it'll be mighty hard to prove anything was intentionally erased.
So whats the point of stamping an electronic passport anyway, since only non-crooks will bother?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413782</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>macaddict</author>
	<datestamp>1268150760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A driver's license is proof you had training in operating a potentially dangerous piece of machinery around others. Which is why they have ticky boxes for things like "chauffeur" and "commercial" on it. You know, because it's about <i>driving</i>. I agree, it shouldn't be used for anything other than employment as a driver, traffic violations, and insurance purposes! In fact, it's a perfect example of how the "oh, this card will only be used for X" is so easily corrupted!</p><p>Want to know what hysteria is? It's the "OMG TEH MEXICANS ARE STEALIN' MAH JOB!". Nevermind that these 'patriot' xenophobes tend to be the same group that practically worship symbols like the Statue of Liberty, but don't even bother to learn the inscription she carries (I'll give you a hint: "Give me your tired, your poor...") Instead of radio-collaring everyone, why don't we concentrate on fixing the broken immigration system that keeps legal applicants in limbo for years, pushing some to come here illegally instead. Oh wait, that's going to take a lot of effort and won't appease the xenophobes, so let's just put a shiny band-aid on it to get re-elected. (And with all the immigration hysteria, the fools won't even notice that we've chipped away a little more of their freedom!) </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A driver 's license is proof you had training in operating a potentially dangerous piece of machinery around others .
Which is why they have ticky boxes for things like " chauffeur " and " commercial " on it .
You know , because it 's about driving .
I agree , it should n't be used for anything other than employment as a driver , traffic violations , and insurance purposes !
In fact , it 's a perfect example of how the " oh , this card will only be used for X " is so easily corrupted ! Want to know what hysteria is ?
It 's the " OMG TEH MEXICANS ARE STEALIN ' MAH JOB ! " .
Nevermind that these 'patriot ' xenophobes tend to be the same group that practically worship symbols like the Statue of Liberty , but do n't even bother to learn the inscription she carries ( I 'll give you a hint : " Give me your tired , your poor... " ) Instead of radio-collaring everyone , why do n't we concentrate on fixing the broken immigration system that keeps legal applicants in limbo for years , pushing some to come here illegally instead .
Oh wait , that 's going to take a lot of effort and wo n't appease the xenophobes , so let 's just put a shiny band-aid on it to get re-elected .
( And with all the immigration hysteria , the fools wo n't even notice that we 've chipped away a little more of their freedom !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A driver's license is proof you had training in operating a potentially dangerous piece of machinery around others.
Which is why they have ticky boxes for things like "chauffeur" and "commercial" on it.
You know, because it's about driving.
I agree, it shouldn't be used for anything other than employment as a driver, traffic violations, and insurance purposes!
In fact, it's a perfect example of how the "oh, this card will only be used for X" is so easily corrupted!Want to know what hysteria is?
It's the "OMG TEH MEXICANS ARE STEALIN' MAH JOB!".
Nevermind that these 'patriot' xenophobes tend to be the same group that practically worship symbols like the Statue of Liberty, but don't even bother to learn the inscription she carries (I'll give you a hint: "Give me your tired, your poor...") Instead of radio-collaring everyone, why don't we concentrate on fixing the broken immigration system that keeps legal applicants in limbo for years, pushing some to come here illegally instead.
Oh wait, that's going to take a lot of effort and won't appease the xenophobes, so let's just put a shiny band-aid on it to get re-elected.
(And with all the immigration hysteria, the fools won't even notice that we've chipped away a little more of their freedom!
) </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414660</id>
	<title>Re:Rather open the borders</title>
	<author>rcamans</author>
	<datestamp>1268154240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't usually say this, but I think you are correct on this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't usually say this , but I think you are correct on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't usually say this, but I think you are correct on this one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413658</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268150100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand why a national ID card is any worse than a state ID card or military ID.  Wouldn't it contain information that the Federal Government already has about me?</p><p>What's the big deal?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why a national ID card is any worse than a state ID card or military ID .
Would n't it contain information that the Federal Government already has about me ? What 's the big deal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why a national ID card is any worse than a state ID card or military ID.
Wouldn't it contain information that the Federal Government already has about me?What's the big deal?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270</id>
	<title>Just need to have serious fines for employers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The ID cards are not the problem.  The problem is consequences.<br><br>Today, it is cheaper to staff with undocumented workers and hope they don't get caught.  If ALL employers had to verify the ID of all of their employees and contractors or face serious fines and all contractors (including household help) were required to show a verifiable ID and anyone who fails to check or falsifies faced serious penalties, this problem would be hugely reduced overnight.<br><br>The real problem is that the big businesses (agriculture, meat packing, hospitality, commercial real-estate, etc..) want the cheap labor and won't let the problem be solved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The ID cards are not the problem .
The problem is consequences.Today , it is cheaper to staff with undocumented workers and hope they do n't get caught .
If ALL employers had to verify the ID of all of their employees and contractors or face serious fines and all contractors ( including household help ) were required to show a verifiable ID and anyone who fails to check or falsifies faced serious penalties , this problem would be hugely reduced overnight.The real problem is that the big businesses ( agriculture , meat packing , hospitality , commercial real-estate , etc.. ) want the cheap labor and wo n't let the problem be solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ID cards are not the problem.
The problem is consequences.Today, it is cheaper to staff with undocumented workers and hope they don't get caught.
If ALL employers had to verify the ID of all of their employees and contractors or face serious fines and all contractors (including household help) were required to show a verifiable ID and anyone who fails to check or falsifies faced serious penalties, this problem would be hugely reduced overnight.The real problem is that the big businesses (agriculture, meat packing, hospitality, commercial real-estate, etc..) want the cheap labor and won't let the problem be solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31421972</id>
	<title>is this a FIPS201 card, like HSPD-12 uses?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268145480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not the card, per se, that's as big a problem as the process through which one must establish one's identity.  They don't want Robert Illegal to whip on down to the federal ID card issuing facility and just sign the form saying, yep, I'm Bob, present his fake drivers license, etc.</p><p>So they'll impose a requirement for more complete authentication. But, oh yes, while we're doing that, why don't we take the opportunity to do a quick background check against the database, just to make sure that if you've got a warrant out, we can get you right then.  And, then, maybe we should identify potentially dangerous people who present a security threat, so we can flag them in the future.</p><p>the need for good id isn't the problem, it's the process for authenticating the first issuance, and even more, the creeping requirements beyond simple authentication that are the problem. The "while we've got you here..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not the card , per se , that 's as big a problem as the process through which one must establish one 's identity .
They do n't want Robert Illegal to whip on down to the federal ID card issuing facility and just sign the form saying , yep , I 'm Bob , present his fake drivers license , etc.So they 'll impose a requirement for more complete authentication .
But , oh yes , while we 're doing that , why do n't we take the opportunity to do a quick background check against the database , just to make sure that if you 've got a warrant out , we can get you right then .
And , then , maybe we should identify potentially dangerous people who present a security threat , so we can flag them in the future.the need for good id is n't the problem , it 's the process for authenticating the first issuance , and even more , the creeping requirements beyond simple authentication that are the problem .
The " while we 've got you here... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not the card, per se, that's as big a problem as the process through which one must establish one's identity.
They don't want Robert Illegal to whip on down to the federal ID card issuing facility and just sign the form saying, yep, I'm Bob, present his fake drivers license, etc.So they'll impose a requirement for more complete authentication.
But, oh yes, while we're doing that, why don't we take the opportunity to do a quick background check against the database, just to make sure that if you've got a warrant out, we can get you right then.
And, then, maybe we should identify potentially dangerous people who present a security threat, so we can flag them in the future.the need for good id isn't the problem, it's the process for authenticating the first issuance, and even more, the creeping requirements beyond simple authentication that are the problem.
The "while we've got you here..."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413294</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you're an irrational idiot that needs to brush up on their recent world history. There is a certain poem about "when they came for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....... " that personified an attitude a certain nation claimed was hysterical and emotional because they thought the person leading the charge was 'their deliverer'.</p><p>I find it very strange when people choose to ignore potential dangers of things like this. While they deserve what they get, I will continue to speak my mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you 're an irrational idiot that needs to brush up on their recent world history .
There is a certain poem about " when they came for ....... " that personified an attitude a certain nation claimed was hysterical and emotional because they thought the person leading the charge was 'their deliverer'.I find it very strange when people choose to ignore potential dangers of things like this .
While they deserve what they get , I will continue to speak my mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you're an irrational idiot that needs to brush up on their recent world history.
There is a certain poem about "when they came for ....... " that personified an attitude a certain nation claimed was hysterical and emotional because they thought the person leading the charge was 'their deliverer'.I find it very strange when people choose to ignore potential dangers of things like this.
While they deserve what they get, I will continue to speak my mind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414214</id>
	<title>What other commenters seem to be ignoring here...</title>
	<author>jenningsthecat</author>
	<datestamp>1268152500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...are the primary forces at work behind such legislation</p><p>Firstly, look past the rhetoric, posturing, and spurious justification, (the 'immigration problem'), and realize that this move simply concentrates more power in the hands of government. Governments always seek greater power, and that's just the nature of the beast. But insofar as we exercise our rights and our will, we hold the leash around this beast's neck. That leash is long overdue for a hard, sharp yanking.</p><p>Secondly, any popular support for this move will stem primarily from fear, some of it based in reality and some of it manufactured by politicians and corporate interests. Fear is a good tactician but a lousy strategist; it can get you out of a tight spot and save your life, but it's no way to RUN your life, it's no way to let OTHERS run your life, and it's no way to run a country. We need to be planning a future where we don't require such intrusive 'protections' as a matter of course, rather than perpetuating fear-based, ad-hoc reactions to a perpetual series of crises.</p><p>Just my two cents' worth...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...are the primary forces at work behind such legislationFirstly , look past the rhetoric , posturing , and spurious justification , ( the 'immigration problem ' ) , and realize that this move simply concentrates more power in the hands of government .
Governments always seek greater power , and that 's just the nature of the beast .
But insofar as we exercise our rights and our will , we hold the leash around this beast 's neck .
That leash is long overdue for a hard , sharp yanking.Secondly , any popular support for this move will stem primarily from fear , some of it based in reality and some of it manufactured by politicians and corporate interests .
Fear is a good tactician but a lousy strategist ; it can get you out of a tight spot and save your life , but it 's no way to RUN your life , it 's no way to let OTHERS run your life , and it 's no way to run a country .
We need to be planning a future where we do n't require such intrusive 'protections ' as a matter of course , rather than perpetuating fear-based , ad-hoc reactions to a perpetual series of crises.Just my two cents ' worth.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...are the primary forces at work behind such legislationFirstly, look past the rhetoric, posturing, and spurious justification, (the 'immigration problem'), and realize that this move simply concentrates more power in the hands of government.
Governments always seek greater power, and that's just the nature of the beast.
But insofar as we exercise our rights and our will, we hold the leash around this beast's neck.
That leash is long overdue for a hard, sharp yanking.Secondly, any popular support for this move will stem primarily from fear, some of it based in reality and some of it manufactured by politicians and corporate interests.
Fear is a good tactician but a lousy strategist; it can get you out of a tight spot and save your life, but it's no way to RUN your life, it's no way to let OTHERS run your life, and it's no way to run a country.
We need to be planning a future where we don't require such intrusive 'protections' as a matter of course, rather than perpetuating fear-based, ad-hoc reactions to a perpetual series of crises.Just my two cents' worth...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413064</id>
	<title>Guess where this card goes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I get a card like this, they will simply have to look for it in the local dump. I am not going to cooperate with this program.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I get a card like this , they will simply have to look for it in the local dump .
I am not going to cooperate with this program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I get a card like this, they will simply have to look for it in the local dump.
I am not going to cooperate with this program.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31420596</id>
	<title>And When E-Verify Fails?</title>
	<author>Stormy Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1268135880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every year, the Social Security administration accidentally declares several thousand people dead who are actually still alive.  Once this occurs, it can take years to get the mistake corrected.  Imagine if it was against the law for you to work in ANY job during this period.

During test runs of E-verify, 6.3\% of checks resulted in false positives (e.g. legal citizens where declared illegals).  In a country of 300 million, that comes to nearly 20 million law abiding citizens who would be unjustly banned from any form of employment.

And people think this is a GOOD idea?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every year , the Social Security administration accidentally declares several thousand people dead who are actually still alive .
Once this occurs , it can take years to get the mistake corrected .
Imagine if it was against the law for you to work in ANY job during this period .
During test runs of E-verify , 6.3 \ % of checks resulted in false positives ( e.g .
legal citizens where declared illegals ) .
In a country of 300 million , that comes to nearly 20 million law abiding citizens who would be unjustly banned from any form of employment .
And people think this is a GOOD idea ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every year, the Social Security administration accidentally declares several thousand people dead who are actually still alive.
Once this occurs, it can take years to get the mistake corrected.
Imagine if it was against the law for you to work in ANY job during this period.
During test runs of E-verify, 6.3\% of checks resulted in false positives (e.g.
legal citizens where declared illegals).
In a country of 300 million, that comes to nearly 20 million law abiding citizens who would be unjustly banned from any form of employment.
And people think this is a GOOD idea?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413406</id>
	<title>wouldn't work at all</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1268149080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>already we have millions of illegals with IDs because so many areas purposely are safe harbors for them, this is just one more thing on the list they will get</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>already we have millions of illegals with IDs because so many areas purposely are safe harbors for them , this is just one more thing on the list they will get</tokentext>
<sentencetext>already we have millions of illegals with IDs because so many areas purposely are safe harbors for them, this is just one more thing on the list they will get</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414238</id>
	<title>POOR IMPULSE CONTROL</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1268152560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I mean between your wars and your economy, I think I have a solution for you...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean between your wars and your economy , I think I have a solution for you.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean between your wars and your economy, I think I have a solution for you...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413224</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they're going to track us, I want to be able to track them. I demand full transparency in the government. Seems fair.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they 're going to track us , I want to be able to track them .
I demand full transparency in the government .
Seems fair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they're going to track us, I want to be able to track them.
I demand full transparency in the government.
Seems fair.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417252</id>
	<title>Re:The Plans...</title>
	<author>TheSync</author>
	<datestamp>1268164560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor can't move freely?</i></p><p>Indeed, arguments by economists show that the potential benefits to the economy as a whole from labor migration is far higher than potential benefits due to reduction of trade barriers.  Just as capital should be free to move where it is most productive, so should labor.</p><p>The greatest enemy of immigration is socialism.  Redistributionist policies make native populations wary of immigrants "who come just for the benefits", or at least it provides a logical support to latent racism.</p><p>If we reduce socialism at home, we remove this barrier to immigration.</p><p>Conversely, the greatest cause of unskilled migration is lack of economic freedom in the home country.  If developing countries adopted policies of higher levels of economic freedom, their economies would develop faster, and there would be less need for their workers to migrate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor ca n't move freely ? Indeed , arguments by economists show that the potential benefits to the economy as a whole from labor migration is far higher than potential benefits due to reduction of trade barriers .
Just as capital should be free to move where it is most productive , so should labor.The greatest enemy of immigration is socialism .
Redistributionist policies make native populations wary of immigrants " who come just for the benefits " , or at least it provides a logical support to latent racism.If we reduce socialism at home , we remove this barrier to immigration.Conversely , the greatest cause of unskilled migration is lack of economic freedom in the home country .
If developing countries adopted policies of higher levels of economic freedom , their economies would develop faster , and there would be less need for their workers to migrate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor can't move freely?Indeed, arguments by economists show that the potential benefits to the economy as a whole from labor migration is far higher than potential benefits due to reduction of trade barriers.
Just as capital should be free to move where it is most productive, so should labor.The greatest enemy of immigration is socialism.
Redistributionist policies make native populations wary of immigrants "who come just for the benefits", or at least it provides a logical support to latent racism.If we reduce socialism at home, we remove this barrier to immigration.Conversely, the greatest cause of unskilled migration is lack of economic freedom in the home country.
If developing countries adopted policies of higher levels of economic freedom, their economies would develop faster, and there would be less need for their workers to migrate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</id>
	<title>why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why do they talk about fascism, "papers please" and destruction of privacy and freedom?</p><p>it's just a damn national id card. do you drive? do you have a driver's license? same fucking thing. is the existence of your driver's license some sort of matrix-like conspiracy to utterly destro your individuality? no? then calm the fuck down</p><p>it's just a bizarre sort of rigid fear of the unknown, when if you have an actual functioning brain, there's no threat this card poses to anyone, anyhow</p><p>what a bunch of spastic hysterical idiots</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why do they talk about fascism , " papers please " and destruction of privacy and freedom ? it 's just a damn national id card .
do you drive ?
do you have a driver 's license ?
same fucking thing .
is the existence of your driver 's license some sort of matrix-like conspiracy to utterly destro your individuality ?
no ? then calm the fuck downit 's just a bizarre sort of rigid fear of the unknown , when if you have an actual functioning brain , there 's no threat this card poses to anyone , anyhowwhat a bunch of spastic hysterical idiots</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why do they talk about fascism, "papers please" and destruction of privacy and freedom?it's just a damn national id card.
do you drive?
do you have a driver's license?
same fucking thing.
is the existence of your driver's license some sort of matrix-like conspiracy to utterly destro your individuality?
no? then calm the fuck downit's just a bizarre sort of rigid fear of the unknown, when if you have an actual functioning brain, there's no threat this card poses to anyone, anyhowwhat a bunch of spastic hysterical idiots</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992</id>
	<title>Guilty until proven innocent.</title>
	<author>pavon</author>
	<datestamp>1268147340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is something that we need to harp on everytime the subject comes up. You cannot pass laws against illegal aliens to prevent them from working or participating in social programs, because we don't know who they are. You can only pass laws against <em>everyone</em> requiring them to prove they are a citizen. To require us to beg government approval before we can work or attend school, and hope there isn't a clerical error, or we never lose our papers at a bad time, or that the government won't someday extend this program to a larger scope.</p><p>There are no laws against illegal aliens, there are only laws stating that we are all assumed guilty of being illegal aliens until we prove ourselves innocent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is something that we need to harp on everytime the subject comes up .
You can not pass laws against illegal aliens to prevent them from working or participating in social programs , because we do n't know who they are .
You can only pass laws against everyone requiring them to prove they are a citizen .
To require us to beg government approval before we can work or attend school , and hope there is n't a clerical error , or we never lose our papers at a bad time , or that the government wo n't someday extend this program to a larger scope.There are no laws against illegal aliens , there are only laws stating that we are all assumed guilty of being illegal aliens until we prove ourselves innocent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is something that we need to harp on everytime the subject comes up.
You cannot pass laws against illegal aliens to prevent them from working or participating in social programs, because we don't know who they are.
You can only pass laws against everyone requiring them to prove they are a citizen.
To require us to beg government approval before we can work or attend school, and hope there isn't a clerical error, or we never lose our papers at a bad time, or that the government won't someday extend this program to a larger scope.There are no laws against illegal aliens, there are only laws stating that we are all assumed guilty of being illegal aliens until we prove ourselves innocent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414700</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268154360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting "Dey took our jerbs!",</p></div><p>Yes, *all* Americans say that. It is completely rational to use South Park episodes as a microscope into the psyche of the American citizen, which is absolutely identical for all of us, and forget the fact we're one of the most diverse populations in history.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, i.e. scrubbing toilets for low wages, then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work.</p></div><p>[citation needed]</p><p>Seriously- show me an actual instance where this was studied. Or is it just another meme peoplem trot out as an alternative to actual thought?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs, and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway.</p></div><p>A lot of high paying construction jobs have fallen to the illegals here amongst other things. It isn't just picking strawberries. You have no effing clue what you are talking about.</p><p>India? You mean computer jobs? Who even confuses that issue with illegal immigration? The border problem here in nearly unique in the world in terms of magnitude and the bullcrap politics. No other country in the *world* is ever attacked for *not* wanting a wide open border. The double standard is ludicrous.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I see it in my own country (Netherlands)</p></div><p>Netherlands?!?! Gee, have you guys prosecuted anyone for daring to criticize Islam this week? Oh, am I stereotyping? Sucks, doesn't it?</p><p>You guys have the Freedom Party, which is riding the back of anti-immigrant feelings, and you're going to take potshots at us? Are you frakking me?! Is the sound of your glass house shattering making your ears ring?</p><p>Geez, even the USA doesn't have a major Party devoted to the immigration issues. In fact, both the Dems and Reps have a basic pro-amnesty stance, although for very different reasons. It hardly ever comes up in elections, even here in Southern California. The economy has led to a lot of the illegals self-deporting (autodeporting?), so it's not even a big deal right now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting " Dey took our jerbs !
" ,Yes , * all * Americans say that .
It is completely rational to use South Park episodes as a microscope into the psyche of the American citizen , which is absolutely identical for all of us , and forget the fact we 're one of the most diverse populations in history.but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing , i.e .
scrubbing toilets for low wages , then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work .
[ citation needed ] Seriously- show me an actual instance where this was studied .
Or is it just another meme peoplem trot out as an alternative to actual thought ? Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs , and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway.A lot of high paying construction jobs have fallen to the illegals here amongst other things .
It is n't just picking strawberries .
You have no effing clue what you are talking about.India ?
You mean computer jobs ?
Who even confuses that issue with illegal immigration ?
The border problem here in nearly unique in the world in terms of magnitude and the bullcrap politics .
No other country in the * world * is ever attacked for * not * wanting a wide open border .
The double standard is ludicrous.I see it in my own country ( Netherlands ) Netherlands ? ! ? !
Gee , have you guys prosecuted anyone for daring to criticize Islam this week ?
Oh , am I stereotyping ?
Sucks , does n't it ? You guys have the Freedom Party , which is riding the back of anti-immigrant feelings , and you 're going to take potshots at us ?
Are you frakking me ? !
Is the sound of your glass house shattering making your ears ring ? Geez , even the USA does n't have a major Party devoted to the immigration issues .
In fact , both the Dems and Reps have a basic pro-amnesty stance , although for very different reasons .
It hardly ever comes up in elections , even here in Southern California .
The economy has led to a lot of the illegals self-deporting ( autodeporting ?
) , so it 's not even a big deal right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting "Dey took our jerbs!
",Yes, *all* Americans say that.
It is completely rational to use South Park episodes as a microscope into the psyche of the American citizen, which is absolutely identical for all of us, and forget the fact we're one of the most diverse populations in history.but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, i.e.
scrubbing toilets for low wages, then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work.
[citation needed]Seriously- show me an actual instance where this was studied.
Or is it just another meme peoplem trot out as an alternative to actual thought?Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs, and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway.A lot of high paying construction jobs have fallen to the illegals here amongst other things.
It isn't just picking strawberries.
You have no effing clue what you are talking about.India?
You mean computer jobs?
Who even confuses that issue with illegal immigration?
The border problem here in nearly unique in the world in terms of magnitude and the bullcrap politics.
No other country in the *world* is ever attacked for *not* wanting a wide open border.
The double standard is ludicrous.I see it in my own country (Netherlands)Netherlands?!?!
Gee, have you guys prosecuted anyone for daring to criticize Islam this week?
Oh, am I stereotyping?
Sucks, doesn't it?You guys have the Freedom Party, which is riding the back of anti-immigrant feelings, and you're going to take potshots at us?
Are you frakking me?!
Is the sound of your glass house shattering making your ears ring?Geez, even the USA doesn't have a major Party devoted to the immigration issues.
In fact, both the Dems and Reps have a basic pro-amnesty stance, although for very different reasons.
It hardly ever comes up in elections, even here in Southern California.
The economy has led to a lot of the illegals self-deporting (autodeporting?
), so it's not even a big deal right now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415588</id>
	<title>This is being planned internationally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268157420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The executive (the civil servants and police chiefs, the secret service etc.) are in discussions with the corporations all the time about new and innovative technologies to make their job easier.</p><p>If one nation is considering this option, then you can be sure that all of them are. This sort of discussion goes on behind the scenes internationally between those who need to carry out the work. Politicians only get involved if pushed to act, and then they drag their feet. In the UK Kellogg, Brown and Root were implementing vehicle registration recognition systems for the UK motorways way, back in the late eighties and early nineties, more than a decade before any politician bothered to discuss the subject in any significant detail (I suspect that most of them weren't even aware of the system).</p><p>In the future every move you make, every transaction you are party to, and each thought you express with be on record. You will be bland, unprovocative, accept the status quo, you will be watched, and you will obey.</p><p>Imprisonment in the community is here. ID cards, databases, CCTV and facial recognition have replaced the need for gulags. You're already under control right where you are, going about your daily business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The executive ( the civil servants and police chiefs , the secret service etc .
) are in discussions with the corporations all the time about new and innovative technologies to make their job easier.If one nation is considering this option , then you can be sure that all of them are .
This sort of discussion goes on behind the scenes internationally between those who need to carry out the work .
Politicians only get involved if pushed to act , and then they drag their feet .
In the UK Kellogg , Brown and Root were implementing vehicle registration recognition systems for the UK motorways way , back in the late eighties and early nineties , more than a decade before any politician bothered to discuss the subject in any significant detail ( I suspect that most of them were n't even aware of the system ) .In the future every move you make , every transaction you are party to , and each thought you express with be on record .
You will be bland , unprovocative , accept the status quo , you will be watched , and you will obey.Imprisonment in the community is here .
ID cards , databases , CCTV and facial recognition have replaced the need for gulags .
You 're already under control right where you are , going about your daily business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The executive (the civil servants and police chiefs, the secret service etc.
) are in discussions with the corporations all the time about new and innovative technologies to make their job easier.If one nation is considering this option, then you can be sure that all of them are.
This sort of discussion goes on behind the scenes internationally between those who need to carry out the work.
Politicians only get involved if pushed to act, and then they drag their feet.
In the UK Kellogg, Brown and Root were implementing vehicle registration recognition systems for the UK motorways way, back in the late eighties and early nineties, more than a decade before any politician bothered to discuss the subject in any significant detail (I suspect that most of them weren't even aware of the system).In the future every move you make, every transaction you are party to, and each thought you express with be on record.
You will be bland, unprovocative, accept the status quo, you will be watched, and you will obey.Imprisonment in the community is here.
ID cards, databases, CCTV and facial recognition have replaced the need for gulags.
You're already under control right where you are, going about your daily business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413300</id>
	<title>It's official</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1268148660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Federalism is officially a complete failure.</p><p>The day I am forced to get an unconstitutional "biometric ID card" in order not to have my job opportunities, directly subsidized by taxes, government-sponsored monopolies and other expropriated wealth, stolen by an illegal immigrant is the day that it's time to dissolve the federal government and revert it's duties back to states that have some semblance of fiscal responsibility and individual rights.</p><p>And I say this of course under the near-universal assumption (by now) that this, along with everything else the US government does, will do absolutely nothing to curb illegal immigration or salvage jobs or benefit Americans and instead will be used simply as another tool of inept government to punish the compliant and reward criminals and cheaters and traitor banks and businesses.</p><p>The US is no longer a functional government.  It can't regulate borders.  It dissolves them and signs them away in supranational treaties.  It can't regulate trade or abusive businesses.  It supports them and bails them out when they fail.  It can't win wars.  It can't even define "winning" in terms of the bullshit wars it now engages in.  It can't regulate reproduction or resource consumption or immigration or anything that actually affects the long term well-being of it's citizens.  All it can do at this point is make token bullshit infringements on the rights of anyone unlucky or stupid enough to get in it's way, accomplishing absolutely nothing save crippling debt increases in the process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Federalism is officially a complete failure.The day I am forced to get an unconstitutional " biometric ID card " in order not to have my job opportunities , directly subsidized by taxes , government-sponsored monopolies and other expropriated wealth , stolen by an illegal immigrant is the day that it 's time to dissolve the federal government and revert it 's duties back to states that have some semblance of fiscal responsibility and individual rights.And I say this of course under the near-universal assumption ( by now ) that this , along with everything else the US government does , will do absolutely nothing to curb illegal immigration or salvage jobs or benefit Americans and instead will be used simply as another tool of inept government to punish the compliant and reward criminals and cheaters and traitor banks and businesses.The US is no longer a functional government .
It ca n't regulate borders .
It dissolves them and signs them away in supranational treaties .
It ca n't regulate trade or abusive businesses .
It supports them and bails them out when they fail .
It ca n't win wars .
It ca n't even define " winning " in terms of the bullshit wars it now engages in .
It ca n't regulate reproduction or resource consumption or immigration or anything that actually affects the long term well-being of it 's citizens .
All it can do at this point is make token bullshit infringements on the rights of anyone unlucky or stupid enough to get in it 's way , accomplishing absolutely nothing save crippling debt increases in the process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Federalism is officially a complete failure.The day I am forced to get an unconstitutional "biometric ID card" in order not to have my job opportunities, directly subsidized by taxes, government-sponsored monopolies and other expropriated wealth, stolen by an illegal immigrant is the day that it's time to dissolve the federal government and revert it's duties back to states that have some semblance of fiscal responsibility and individual rights.And I say this of course under the near-universal assumption (by now) that this, along with everything else the US government does, will do absolutely nothing to curb illegal immigration or salvage jobs or benefit Americans and instead will be used simply as another tool of inept government to punish the compliant and reward criminals and cheaters and traitor banks and businesses.The US is no longer a functional government.
It can't regulate borders.
It dissolves them and signs them away in supranational treaties.
It can't regulate trade or abusive businesses.
It supports them and bails them out when they fail.
It can't win wars.
It can't even define "winning" in terms of the bullshit wars it now engages in.
It can't regulate reproduction or resource consumption or immigration or anything that actually affects the long term well-being of it's citizens.
All it can do at this point is make token bullshit infringements on the rights of anyone unlucky or stupid enough to get in it's way, accomplishing absolutely nothing save crippling debt increases in the process.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414326</id>
	<title>Who is Bill May?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268152980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Slashdot titles suck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot titles suck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot titles suck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412878</id>
	<title>Not with Obama</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find this hard to believe.  Obama already gets enough grief about not being right wing enough even though he's as right wing as Bush 2.  Patriot Act, torturing people to death, and all that.  The NRA went nuts since he's a socialist and guns and ammo started selling before his nonexistant gun ban.  If Obama tried this, the right wing would just completely shut down.  Look at how much they shut down the government already.  Doing this is pretty dangerous for any president even with the terrorist as a ready made excuse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find this hard to believe .
Obama already gets enough grief about not being right wing enough even though he 's as right wing as Bush 2 .
Patriot Act , torturing people to death , and all that .
The NRA went nuts since he 's a socialist and guns and ammo started selling before his nonexistant gun ban .
If Obama tried this , the right wing would just completely shut down .
Look at how much they shut down the government already .
Doing this is pretty dangerous for any president even with the terrorist as a ready made excuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find this hard to believe.
Obama already gets enough grief about not being right wing enough even though he's as right wing as Bush 2.
Patriot Act, torturing people to death, and all that.
The NRA went nuts since he's a socialist and guns and ammo started selling before his nonexistant gun ban.
If Obama tried this, the right wing would just completely shut down.
Look at how much they shut down the government already.
Doing this is pretty dangerous for any president even with the terrorist as a ready made excuse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418764</id>
	<title>The real solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268127600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real solution is not to go after the workers.  It's to go after those that employ illegal immigrants.  Give the owner of a company a month of hard jail time for each illegal he hires, (and maybe a fine too),  and you'll see this problem go away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real solution is not to go after the workers .
It 's to go after those that employ illegal immigrants .
Give the owner of a company a month of hard jail time for each illegal he hires , ( and maybe a fine too ) , and you 'll see this problem go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real solution is not to go after the workers.
It's to go after those that employ illegal immigrants.
Give the owner of a company a month of hard jail time for each illegal he hires, (and maybe a fine too),  and you'll see this problem go away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413934</id>
	<title>Just put it in your wallet and shut up.</title>
	<author>Nukenbar</author>
	<datestamp>1268151420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this really a big deal?  I just seems like an updated SSN card to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this really a big deal ?
I just seems like an updated SSN card to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this really a big deal?
I just seems like an updated SSN card to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31419674</id>
	<title>or, when you have a non-functional brain...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268131560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>when if you have an actual functioning brain, there's no threat this card poses to anyone, anyhow</p></div><p>I would like to posit that when you have an actual non-functioning brain, it may appear to you that it is functioning properly and its inability to see the threats posed by a national ID system may appear to be normal. TO YOU.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>when if you have an actual functioning brain , there 's no threat this card poses to anyone , anyhowI would like to posit that when you have an actual non-functioning brain , it may appear to you that it is functioning properly and its inability to see the threats posed by a national ID system may appear to be normal .
TO YOU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when if you have an actual functioning brain, there's no threat this card poses to anyone, anyhowI would like to posit that when you have an actual non-functioning brain, it may appear to you that it is functioning properly and its inability to see the threats posed by a national ID system may appear to be normal.
TO YOU.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413574</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Jimmy King</author>
	<datestamp>1268149800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just because something is already bad, we shouldn't try to keep it from getting worse?<br><br>As pointed out by others who have already replied to you, there are also some significant differences between your examples and this new id.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because something is already bad , we should n't try to keep it from getting worse ? As pointed out by others who have already replied to you , there are also some significant differences between your examples and this new id .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because something is already bad, we shouldn't try to keep it from getting worse?As pointed out by others who have already replied to you, there are also some significant differences between your examples and this new id.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415884</id>
	<title>Re:Tie this in to drivers license, and passport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268158620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am with you. Make sure to show full face and hair. I do not care what your God thinks, I need to see your face otherwise, how do I know it is you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am with you .
Make sure to show full face and hair .
I do not care what your God thinks , I need to see your face otherwise , how do I know it is you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am with you.
Make sure to show full face and hair.
I do not care what your God thinks, I need to see your face otherwise, how do I know it is you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413764</id>
	<title>Megadeth's Endgame</title>
	<author>Jimmy King</author>
	<datestamp>1268150700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, Dave's lyrics to the song Endgame sound more likely and less crazy by the day (and they weren't a very hard sell in the first place) although they were technically about a different document that this plan certainly ties directly into.<br><br>"A system of controlled movement, like a giant ant farm." is about fucking right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , Dave 's lyrics to the song Endgame sound more likely and less crazy by the day ( and they were n't a very hard sell in the first place ) although they were technically about a different document that this plan certainly ties directly into .
" A system of controlled movement , like a giant ant farm .
" is about fucking right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, Dave's lyrics to the song Endgame sound more likely and less crazy by the day (and they weren't a very hard sell in the first place) although they were technically about a different document that this plan certainly ties directly into.
"A system of controlled movement, like a giant ant farm.
" is about fucking right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413958</id>
	<title>Re:Another card? -- Yes, with biometric ID</title>
	<author>jacksdl</author>
	<datestamp>1268151480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why do we need another card? Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already.</p></div><p>
Did you miss the part about it being biometric?  This would seem to be the best tool to fight identity theft. <br> <br> Now for all of those slashdotters who will start fretting over the misuse of this card -- get over it.  You are not likely to find yourself in Dr. Richard Kimble's situation (unjustly convicted of murder and needing to hide from Tommy Lee Jones).  And as for the government having too much power, please note that these are the people who have our guns, tanks, drones and hydrogen bombs.  No, we shouldn't trust them -- we should watch them for any abuse of power and call them out when necessary.  But a system that insists we should maintain personal security through making personal identification more difficult is misguided.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we need another card ?
Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already .
Did you miss the part about it being biometric ?
This would seem to be the best tool to fight identity theft .
Now for all of those slashdotters who will start fretting over the misuse of this card -- get over it .
You are not likely to find yourself in Dr. Richard Kimble 's situation ( unjustly convicted of murder and needing to hide from Tommy Lee Jones ) .
And as for the government having too much power , please note that these are the people who have our guns , tanks , drones and hydrogen bombs .
No , we should n't trust them -- we should watch them for any abuse of power and call them out when necessary .
But a system that insists we should maintain personal security through making personal identification more difficult is misguided .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we need another card?
Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already.
Did you miss the part about it being biometric?
This would seem to be the best tool to fight identity theft.
Now for all of those slashdotters who will start fretting over the misuse of this card -- get over it.
You are not likely to find yourself in Dr. Richard Kimble's situation (unjustly convicted of murder and needing to hide from Tommy Lee Jones).
And as for the government having too much power, please note that these are the people who have our guns, tanks, drones and hydrogen bombs.
No, we shouldn't trust them -- we should watch them for any abuse of power and call them out when necessary.
But a system that insists we should maintain personal security through making personal identification more difficult is misguided.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413626</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>rfrenzob</author>
	<datestamp>1268149980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And what are the issuance requirements here? Drivers license? Social security card? Passport?</p><p>The last time I renewed my license, the DMV would not accept the passport as proof of citizenship. Birth certificate paired with social security card only, thank you very much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And what are the issuance requirements here ?
Drivers license ?
Social security card ?
Passport ? The last time I renewed my license , the DMV would not accept the passport as proof of citizenship .
Birth certificate paired with social security card only , thank you very much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what are the issuance requirements here?
Drivers license?
Social security card?
Passport?The last time I renewed my license, the DMV would not accept the passport as proof of citizenship.
Birth certificate paired with social security card only, thank you very much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413774</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>Mantis8</author>
	<datestamp>1268150700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Once this is in place nationwide for a while, then how long before we're all required to *upgrade* to those injectable capsules the size of a grain of rice???  Then the government can track us all like cattle...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once this is in place nationwide for a while , then how long before we 're all required to * upgrade * to those injectable capsules the size of a grain of rice ? ? ?
Then the government can track us all like cattle.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once this is in place nationwide for a while, then how long before we're all required to *upgrade* to those injectable capsules the size of a grain of rice???
Then the government can track us all like cattle...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413266</id>
	<title>Because Privacy is the New Green</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because kids need a cause.  They don't need to UNDERSTAND a cause, or to grasp implications and both sides of the issue, they just need something to wear on their sleeves, next to the patch promoting that super-cool underground indie band only they have ever heard of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because kids need a cause .
They do n't need to UNDERSTAND a cause , or to grasp implications and both sides of the issue , they just need something to wear on their sleeves , next to the patch promoting that super-cool underground indie band only they have ever heard of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because kids need a cause.
They don't need to UNDERSTAND a cause, or to grasp implications and both sides of the issue, they just need something to wear on their sleeves, next to the patch promoting that super-cool underground indie band only they have ever heard of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413434</id>
	<title>Permanent underclass?</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1268149200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs</p></div><p>Well, that's scary.  You could easily form a permanent underclass of never-employable again people with that plan.</p><p>There's no point to getting a card unless its more effective than a passport or drivers license or military ID, or my freaking passport would be good enough so we wouldn't need this new thing.  It took months to get my passport, including all kinds of hoops to jump thru for notarization and some special kind of birth certificate and other foolishness involving the local postmaster.  I assume this new thing will be worse, otherwise we wouldn't need it.  Its a safe assumption that in general, any time the govt does anything, its to make it worse for the middle class, and this specific situation seems to fit the mold.</p><p>For a upper middle class employed dude like myself, a couple months time and a couple thousand bucks is annoying but no big deal, similar to replacing a leaking roof and fixing the damage.  For dirt poor, unemployed, barely HS educated, how-mucha-month, joe six pack, he's screwed.  What if J6P needs to hire a lawyer to fix some paperwork, or needs to pay up front to get docs from various agencies to prove his existence?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but would be phased in , with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobsWell , that 's scary .
You could easily form a permanent underclass of never-employable again people with that plan.There 's no point to getting a card unless its more effective than a passport or drivers license or military ID , or my freaking passport would be good enough so we would n't need this new thing .
It took months to get my passport , including all kinds of hoops to jump thru for notarization and some special kind of birth certificate and other foolishness involving the local postmaster .
I assume this new thing will be worse , otherwise we would n't need it .
Its a safe assumption that in general , any time the govt does anything , its to make it worse for the middle class , and this specific situation seems to fit the mold.For a upper middle class employed dude like myself , a couple months time and a couple thousand bucks is annoying but no big deal , similar to replacing a leaking roof and fixing the damage .
For dirt poor , unemployed , barely HS educated , how-mucha-month , joe six pack , he 's screwed .
What if J6P needs to hire a lawyer to fix some paperwork , or needs to pay up front to get docs from various agencies to prove his existence ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobsWell, that's scary.
You could easily form a permanent underclass of never-employable again people with that plan.There's no point to getting a card unless its more effective than a passport or drivers license or military ID, or my freaking passport would be good enough so we wouldn't need this new thing.
It took months to get my passport, including all kinds of hoops to jump thru for notarization and some special kind of birth certificate and other foolishness involving the local postmaster.
I assume this new thing will be worse, otherwise we wouldn't need it.
Its a safe assumption that in general, any time the govt does anything, its to make it worse for the middle class, and this specific situation seems to fit the mold.For a upper middle class employed dude like myself, a couple months time and a couple thousand bucks is annoying but no big deal, similar to replacing a leaking roof and fixing the damage.
For dirt poor, unemployed, barely HS educated, how-mucha-month, joe six pack, he's screwed.
What if J6P needs to hire a lawyer to fix some paperwork, or needs to pay up front to get docs from various agencies to prove his existence?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415822</id>
	<title>Why does the US Government's solutions</title>
	<author>Kevin108</author>
	<datestamp>1268158440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>for dealing with criminals always result in penalizing law-abiding people?</htmltext>
<tokenext>for dealing with criminals always result in penalizing law-abiding people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for dealing with criminals always result in penalizing law-abiding people?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412908</id>
	<title>So...</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1268146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess this is where we learn whether Americans hate "big gummint" or mexicans more. Based on our performances during the wars on terror, drugs, crime, pedophiles, etc. I'm guessing that the answer will be "mexicans" hands down.<br> <br>

Sure, there'll be some libertarians and civil libertarians who actually do prefer freedom, and some liberals(and, of course, hispanics) who don't actually hate mexicans; but the "God bless Joe Arpaio" crowd would submit to checkpoints and cavity searches in their own homes if they thought it would bring back "purity" and "real america"(how ironic...).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess this is where we learn whether Americans hate " big gummint " or mexicans more .
Based on our performances during the wars on terror , drugs , crime , pedophiles , etc .
I 'm guessing that the answer will be " mexicans " hands down .
Sure , there 'll be some libertarians and civil libertarians who actually do prefer freedom , and some liberals ( and , of course , hispanics ) who do n't actually hate mexicans ; but the " God bless Joe Arpaio " crowd would submit to checkpoints and cavity searches in their own homes if they thought it would bring back " purity " and " real america " ( how ironic... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess this is where we learn whether Americans hate "big gummint" or mexicans more.
Based on our performances during the wars on terror, drugs, crime, pedophiles, etc.
I'm guessing that the answer will be "mexicans" hands down.
Sure, there'll be some libertarians and civil libertarians who actually do prefer freedom, and some liberals(and, of course, hispanics) who don't actually hate mexicans; but the "God bless Joe Arpaio" crowd would submit to checkpoints and cavity searches in their own homes if they thought it would bring back "purity" and "real america"(how ironic...).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413330</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc. I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept "But this is a free country!" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.</p></div><p>I know it's a strange concept in some bits of the USA, but you can leave your house without immediately getting into a car.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>You don't need to carry anything when walking down the street, do you?</p><p>(Incidentally, an alternative to carrying those papers in the car is for the police to have access to the data on a database, like they do in the UK. Some police cars have forward-facing cameras with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-enforced\_ANPR\_in\_the\_UK" title="wikipedia.org">automatic number-plate recognition</a> [wikipedia.org] systems, which will do OCR on the plate, then check in a database for valid insurance and whether there are any outstanding reports on the car (e.g. that the car is stolen, or was used in a crime). If there are, the screen in the car alerts the driver.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver 's license , car registration , proof of insurance , etc .
I 'm pretty sure the cops are n't going to accept " But this is a free country !
" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.I know it 's a strange concept in some bits of the USA , but you can leave your house without immediately getting into a car .
; - ) You do n't need to carry anything when walking down the street , do you ?
( Incidentally , an alternative to carrying those papers in the car is for the police to have access to the data on a database , like they do in the UK .
Some police cars have forward-facing cameras with automatic number-plate recognition [ wikipedia.org ] systems , which will do OCR on the plate , then check in a database for valid insurance and whether there are any outstanding reports on the car ( e.g .
that the car is stolen , or was used in a crime ) .
If there are , the screen in the car alerts the driver .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc.
I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept "But this is a free country!
" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.I know it's a strange concept in some bits of the USA, but you can leave your house without immediately getting into a car.
;-)You don't need to carry anything when walking down the street, do you?
(Incidentally, an alternative to carrying those papers in the car is for the police to have access to the data on a database, like they do in the UK.
Some police cars have forward-facing cameras with automatic number-plate recognition [wikipedia.org] systems, which will do OCR on the plate, then check in a database for valid insurance and whether there are any outstanding reports on the car (e.g.
that the car is stolen, or was used in a crime).
If there are, the screen in the car alerts the driver.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414344</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>tibit</author>
	<datestamp>1268153040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>LOL. You'll only need this card when you apply for the job. You already need an ID for that, so what would be so different this time, besides the ID being trickier to forge?! You're just irrational, that's what it is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
You 'll only need this card when you apply for the job .
You already need an ID for that , so what would be so different this time , besides the ID being trickier to forge ? !
You 're just irrational , that 's what it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
You'll only need this card when you apply for the job.
You already need an ID for that, so what would be so different this time, besides the ID being trickier to forge?!
You're just irrational, that's what it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412882</id>
	<title>Block the foreign programmers.</title>
	<author>Singularity42</author>
	<datestamp>1268146920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are taking our jobs!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are taking our jobs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are taking our jobs!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413898</id>
	<title>Re:Rather open the borders</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268151300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>man cool out with the Fox News bullshit....Bush was the biggest asshole when it comes to taking away your privacy...you should dig quite a bit on that and you'd be sicked by what you find.  Where do people like you come off and say shit like Nazis and Soviets for a damn national id card...you already have one (SSNO)  We have birth certificates, SSNO, Drivers licenses, credit cards, facebook accounts, twitter accounts, blogs, slashdot accounts, passports...and your worried that 1 more is going to make us Nazis.  You should read more than just what you hear on Fox...Nazis weren't about national id cards...I think it had something more to do with Superior race, or hating the jews....I could be wrong...maybe WWII started from a national id card.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>man cool out with the Fox News bullshit....Bush was the biggest asshole when it comes to taking away your privacy...you should dig quite a bit on that and you 'd be sicked by what you find .
Where do people like you come off and say shit like Nazis and Soviets for a damn national id card...you already have one ( SSNO ) We have birth certificates , SSNO , Drivers licenses , credit cards , facebook accounts , twitter accounts , blogs , slashdot accounts , passports...and your worried that 1 more is going to make us Nazis .
You should read more than just what you hear on Fox...Nazis were n't about national id cards...I think it had something more to do with Superior race , or hating the jews....I could be wrong...maybe WWII started from a national id card .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>man cool out with the Fox News bullshit....Bush was the biggest asshole when it comes to taking away your privacy...you should dig quite a bit on that and you'd be sicked by what you find.
Where do people like you come off and say shit like Nazis and Soviets for a damn national id card...you already have one (SSNO)  We have birth certificates, SSNO, Drivers licenses, credit cards, facebook accounts, twitter accounts, blogs, slashdot accounts, passports...and your worried that 1 more is going to make us Nazis.
You should read more than just what you hear on Fox...Nazis weren't about national id cards...I think it had something more to do with Superior race, or hating the jews....I could be wrong...maybe WWII started from a national id card.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417168</id>
	<title>Re:666</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1268164200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, it is intended to serve the same purpose, namely as a requirement to engage in any sort of commerce.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , it is intended to serve the same purpose , namely as a requirement to engage in any sort of commerce .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, it is intended to serve the same purpose, namely as a requirement to engage in any sort of commerce.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413870</id>
	<title>Oh, A Bill</title>
	<author>Greyfox</author>
	<datestamp>1268151180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As if Congress could pass anything right now. If all that stands between us and a complete fascist state is their ineptitude, well I'm happy with that insurmountable mountain between that future and us. Not that the future their complete lack of leadership is going to bring us is any less bleak.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As if Congress could pass anything right now .
If all that stands between us and a complete fascist state is their ineptitude , well I 'm happy with that insurmountable mountain between that future and us .
Not that the future their complete lack of leadership is going to bring us is any less bleak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As if Congress could pass anything right now.
If all that stands between us and a complete fascist state is their ineptitude, well I'm happy with that insurmountable mountain between that future and us.
Not that the future their complete lack of leadership is going to bring us is any less bleak.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412892</id>
	<title>To you hackers out there....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this comes to pass, please hack it fast and make a <b>big</b> splash with it, like have a petite white chick go around as President Obama.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this comes to pass , please hack it fast and make a big splash with it , like have a petite white chick go around as President Obama .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this comes to pass, please hack it fast and make a big splash with it, like have a petite white chick go around as President Obama.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412848</id>
	<title>Ornlu</title>
	<author>Ornlu</author>
	<datestamp>1268146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Over my cold dead body.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Over my cold dead body .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Over my cold dead body.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414108</id>
	<title>I'll bite</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268152080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually it doesn't sound far off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually it does n't sound far off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually it doesn't sound far off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413914</id>
	<title>Re:Guilty until proven innocent.</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1268151360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can only pass laws against everyone requiring them to prove they are a citizen.</p></div><p>It's a consequence of the entitlement society we currently have. If you're going to make public resources available for consumption, then you need some sort of "laws against everyone" in order to keep a zillion non-citizen moochers from consuming the resources. In the past, when the US didn't have such a society, there were no illegal immigrants. I think it's no coincidence that the US transitioned from an open immigration society to a closed society in the 20s and 30s, when entitlements were first doled out.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can only pass laws against everyone requiring them to prove they are a citizen.It 's a consequence of the entitlement society we currently have .
If you 're going to make public resources available for consumption , then you need some sort of " laws against everyone " in order to keep a zillion non-citizen moochers from consuming the resources .
In the past , when the US did n't have such a society , there were no illegal immigrants .
I think it 's no coincidence that the US transitioned from an open immigration society to a closed society in the 20s and 30s , when entitlements were first doled out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can only pass laws against everyone requiring them to prove they are a citizen.It's a consequence of the entitlement society we currently have.
If you're going to make public resources available for consumption, then you need some sort of "laws against everyone" in order to keep a zillion non-citizen moochers from consuming the resources.
In the past, when the US didn't have such a society, there were no illegal immigrants.
I think it's no coincidence that the US transitioned from an open immigration society to a closed society in the 20s and 30s, when entitlements were first doled out.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413008</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1268147400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the cards have decent security features, there is at least a chance that they would make it a lot easier to blame the financial institution when they opened an account for someone using a fake card.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the cards have decent security features , there is at least a chance that they would make it a lot easier to blame the financial institution when they opened an account for someone using a fake card .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the cards have decent security features, there is at least a chance that they would make it a lot easier to blame the financial institution when they opened an account for someone using a fake card.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414680</id>
	<title>I can sum this up quite eloquently.</title>
	<author>moxley</author>
	<datestamp>1268154300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FUCK THAT!</p><p>(seriously...in addition to the obvious reasons why this is such an awful idea, there is going to be a very large population of people who will see this as "the mark of the beast.")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FUCK THAT !
( seriously...in addition to the obvious reasons why this is such an awful idea , there is going to be a very large population of people who will see this as " the mark of the beast .
" )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FUCK THAT!
(seriously...in addition to the obvious reasons why this is such an awful idea, there is going to be a very large population of people who will see this as "the mark of the beast.
")</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416716</id>
	<title>Re:Illegal work.</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1268162160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This becomes an excuse to require biometric logins for any computer capable of remote access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This becomes an excuse to require biometric logins for any computer capable of remote access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This becomes an excuse to require biometric logins for any computer capable of remote access.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31423246</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>LordLimecat</author>
	<datestamp>1268158560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Generally when that happens, you give them your SSN, they tell you to wait on the side of the road, they go and pull up your info, and then you both get on with life.  If the cop's being a stickler, he MAY give you a ticket for not having your license-- which is required to drive your car anyways.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Generally when that happens , you give them your SSN , they tell you to wait on the side of the road , they go and pull up your info , and then you both get on with life .
If the cop 's being a stickler , he MAY give you a ticket for not having your license-- which is required to drive your car anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generally when that happens, you give them your SSN, they tell you to wait on the side of the road, they go and pull up your info, and then you both get on with life.
If the cop's being a stickler, he MAY give you a ticket for not having your license-- which is required to drive your car anyways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31420468</id>
	<title>Re:Just need to have serious fines for employers</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1268135220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I googled, and found the fine to be up to 10,000 and 5 years in prison for employing, knowingly, illegal workers.  5 years in prison isn't insignificant. The problem is more likely that the employer didn't know (or claim to not know), and/or the illegal employee gave him counterfeit papers.</p><p>As an employer, how can you be certain?  If the person hands you a W2 from an old job, a valid looking ssn, what more should you do?  And if the employer can't be certain without going to extreme lengths and background checks, should they really be thrown in jail for 5 years?</p><p>I can understand the intent behind wanting a form of 100\% accurate identification, so that employers can be sure their employees are legal... but I think that it is missing the point entirely.  I would assume that a very large percent of the migrant work force is payed under the table, without any paper work at all.  Where there is demand, supply will come.</p><p>I'd much rather see some sort of temporary worker visa made available.  Having grown up around agriculture for the first half of my life, I can tell you that there are very few US citizens that would want to work in the fields.  I've done it (college summer job), and it is very hard minimum wage work.</p><p>But the hard work isn't even the primary issue.  The single biggest thing that people miss in this discussion is that agricultural work is entirely temporary.  When the harvest is ready, thousands upon thousands of migratory workers flood into central Washington State.  When the harvest is done, most of them move to another State with a different growing season, or head back home with their earnings.</p><p>How could you run a business if you needed 500 workers for 3 months each year without migratory labor?  The only temporary work that pays off if you want to be stationary, with a home, as a US citizen is something like Crab fishing in Alaska.  Big money, short time.  Minimum wage short time jobs do not pay off, and no US citizen with better options is going to travel around to get those temp harvest jobs.</p><p>If we successfully removed all illegal labor tomorrow, where would the workers come from?  Well I suppose you could point out that places like Detroit have 40\% unemployment among inner city males, mostly black males (I think thats the right figure, might be lower, but you get the point).  Why aren't all those unemployed people traveling across the country each growing season and taking the harvest jobs?  Because when they return home to Detroit with their summer earnings, that money doesn't buy much in America.  A Mexican worker returning home on the other hand...</p><p>It boils down to 2 choices:<br>1.  Temporary worker visas, and being able to tax those workers to pay for the social services they might use during their temporary stay, or<br>2.  Build a big wall, aggressively enforce laws, greatly increase business inspection, attempt to remove all illegal workers in other words.  The result would be that farmers would need to pay more to entice people to take the job, and our food costs would go up.</p><p>Either plan is basically sound in terms of the cause/effect.  Except that like the war on drugs shows, where there is demand, supply finds a way of creeping in.  Number 2 would be a losing battle imo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I googled , and found the fine to be up to 10,000 and 5 years in prison for employing , knowingly , illegal workers .
5 years in prison is n't insignificant .
The problem is more likely that the employer did n't know ( or claim to not know ) , and/or the illegal employee gave him counterfeit papers.As an employer , how can you be certain ?
If the person hands you a W2 from an old job , a valid looking ssn , what more should you do ?
And if the employer ca n't be certain without going to extreme lengths and background checks , should they really be thrown in jail for 5 years ? I can understand the intent behind wanting a form of 100 \ % accurate identification , so that employers can be sure their employees are legal... but I think that it is missing the point entirely .
I would assume that a very large percent of the migrant work force is payed under the table , without any paper work at all .
Where there is demand , supply will come.I 'd much rather see some sort of temporary worker visa made available .
Having grown up around agriculture for the first half of my life , I can tell you that there are very few US citizens that would want to work in the fields .
I 've done it ( college summer job ) , and it is very hard minimum wage work.But the hard work is n't even the primary issue .
The single biggest thing that people miss in this discussion is that agricultural work is entirely temporary .
When the harvest is ready , thousands upon thousands of migratory workers flood into central Washington State .
When the harvest is done , most of them move to another State with a different growing season , or head back home with their earnings.How could you run a business if you needed 500 workers for 3 months each year without migratory labor ?
The only temporary work that pays off if you want to be stationary , with a home , as a US citizen is something like Crab fishing in Alaska .
Big money , short time .
Minimum wage short time jobs do not pay off , and no US citizen with better options is going to travel around to get those temp harvest jobs.If we successfully removed all illegal labor tomorrow , where would the workers come from ?
Well I suppose you could point out that places like Detroit have 40 \ % unemployment among inner city males , mostly black males ( I think thats the right figure , might be lower , but you get the point ) .
Why are n't all those unemployed people traveling across the country each growing season and taking the harvest jobs ?
Because when they return home to Detroit with their summer earnings , that money does n't buy much in America .
A Mexican worker returning home on the other hand...It boils down to 2 choices : 1 .
Temporary worker visas , and being able to tax those workers to pay for the social services they might use during their temporary stay , or2 .
Build a big wall , aggressively enforce laws , greatly increase business inspection , attempt to remove all illegal workers in other words .
The result would be that farmers would need to pay more to entice people to take the job , and our food costs would go up.Either plan is basically sound in terms of the cause/effect .
Except that like the war on drugs shows , where there is demand , supply finds a way of creeping in .
Number 2 would be a losing battle imo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I googled, and found the fine to be up to 10,000 and 5 years in prison for employing, knowingly, illegal workers.
5 years in prison isn't insignificant.
The problem is more likely that the employer didn't know (or claim to not know), and/or the illegal employee gave him counterfeit papers.As an employer, how can you be certain?
If the person hands you a W2 from an old job, a valid looking ssn, what more should you do?
And if the employer can't be certain without going to extreme lengths and background checks, should they really be thrown in jail for 5 years?I can understand the intent behind wanting a form of 100\% accurate identification, so that employers can be sure their employees are legal... but I think that it is missing the point entirely.
I would assume that a very large percent of the migrant work force is payed under the table, without any paper work at all.
Where there is demand, supply will come.I'd much rather see some sort of temporary worker visa made available.
Having grown up around agriculture for the first half of my life, I can tell you that there are very few US citizens that would want to work in the fields.
I've done it (college summer job), and it is very hard minimum wage work.But the hard work isn't even the primary issue.
The single biggest thing that people miss in this discussion is that agricultural work is entirely temporary.
When the harvest is ready, thousands upon thousands of migratory workers flood into central Washington State.
When the harvest is done, most of them move to another State with a different growing season, or head back home with their earnings.How could you run a business if you needed 500 workers for 3 months each year without migratory labor?
The only temporary work that pays off if you want to be stationary, with a home, as a US citizen is something like Crab fishing in Alaska.
Big money, short time.
Minimum wage short time jobs do not pay off, and no US citizen with better options is going to travel around to get those temp harvest jobs.If we successfully removed all illegal labor tomorrow, where would the workers come from?
Well I suppose you could point out that places like Detroit have 40\% unemployment among inner city males, mostly black males (I think thats the right figure, might be lower, but you get the point).
Why aren't all those unemployed people traveling across the country each growing season and taking the harvest jobs?
Because when they return home to Detroit with their summer earnings, that money doesn't buy much in America.
A Mexican worker returning home on the other hand...It boils down to 2 choices:1.
Temporary worker visas, and being able to tax those workers to pay for the social services they might use during their temporary stay, or2.
Build a big wall, aggressively enforce laws, greatly increase business inspection, attempt to remove all illegal workers in other words.
The result would be that farmers would need to pay more to entice people to take the job, and our food costs would go up.Either plan is basically sound in terms of the cause/effect.
Except that like the war on drugs shows, where there is demand, supply finds a way of creeping in.
Number 2 would be a losing battle imo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413234</id>
	<title>Write your Congressman and Senator</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1268148360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, don't just stand there, do it.</p><p><a href="http://www.house.gov/" title="house.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.house.gov/</a> [house.gov]<br><a href="http://www.senate.gov/" title="senate.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.senate.gov/</a> [senate.gov]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , do n't just stand there , do it.http : //www.house.gov/ [ house.gov ] http : //www.senate.gov/ [ senate.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, don't just stand there, do it.http://www.house.gov/ [house.gov]http://www.senate.gov/ [senate.gov]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416054</id>
	<title>Re:Rather open the borders</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268159280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your analogy is seriously lacking, how is it worse than the Nazis and the Soviets? You can make quite an argument that this move is bad, but lets not Godwin the argument. Your government doesn't appear to be attempting to commit genocide just yet!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your analogy is seriously lacking , how is it worse than the Nazis and the Soviets ?
You can make quite an argument that this move is bad , but lets not Godwin the argument .
Your government does n't appear to be attempting to commit genocide just yet !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your analogy is seriously lacking, how is it worse than the Nazis and the Soviets?
You can make quite an argument that this move is bad, but lets not Godwin the argument.
Your government doesn't appear to be attempting to commit genocide just yet!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413518</id>
	<title>Re:Tie this in to drivers license, and passport</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1268149500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. Throw in a smart card chip, too. let me use it for banking transactions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Throw in a smart card chip , too .
let me use it for banking transactions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Throw in a smart card chip, too.
let me use it for banking transactions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31424062</id>
	<title>Ouch</title>
	<author>fuzzywig</author>
	<datestamp>1268214720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a brit, can I just remind you about all the stuff that was said by americans about our governments stupid bloody plans to make <i>us</i> use ID cards.
<p>
Same back to you<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a brit , can I just remind you about all the stuff that was said by americans about our governments stupid bloody plans to make us use ID cards .
Same back to you : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a brit, can I just remind you about all the stuff that was said by americans about our governments stupid bloody plans to make us use ID cards.
Same back to you :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414112</id>
	<title>Take it from a person who has to carry one...</title>
	<author>dejanc</author>
	<datestamp>1268152140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lived in USA for 6 years and the best thing there, in terms of citizen-government interaction, was that there was no mandatory ID cards. </p><p>Sure, an ID card is not that big of a deal at first. It's not much unlike a DL (which almost everyone carries around all the time anyway), and it's not like the police can't track you down all the time. </p><p>But this is what will happen:</p><ul>
<li>First they mandate you always have to carry it with you.</li><li>Then, the police implies you have to show it to anyone with a badge on demand.</li><li>Finally, they will randomly stop you and check your ID... without a right that you refuse it.</li></ul><p>Here in Serbia, quite literally, I can't even take a walk in the park anymore without a cop stopping me and asking for ID...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lived in USA for 6 years and the best thing there , in terms of citizen-government interaction , was that there was no mandatory ID cards .
Sure , an ID card is not that big of a deal at first .
It 's not much unlike a DL ( which almost everyone carries around all the time anyway ) , and it 's not like the police ca n't track you down all the time .
But this is what will happen : First they mandate you always have to carry it with you.Then , the police implies you have to show it to anyone with a badge on demand.Finally , they will randomly stop you and check your ID... without a right that you refuse it.Here in Serbia , quite literally , I ca n't even take a walk in the park anymore without a cop stopping me and asking for ID.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lived in USA for 6 years and the best thing there, in terms of citizen-government interaction, was that there was no mandatory ID cards.
Sure, an ID card is not that big of a deal at first.
It's not much unlike a DL (which almost everyone carries around all the time anyway), and it's not like the police can't track you down all the time.
But this is what will happen:
First they mandate you always have to carry it with you.Then, the police implies you have to show it to anyone with a badge on demand.Finally, they will randomly stop you and check your ID... without a right that you refuse it.Here in Serbia, quite literally, I can't even take a walk in the park anymore without a cop stopping me and asking for ID...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416480</id>
	<title>Re:Guilty until proven innocent.</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1268160900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the best argument I've seen. And as I recall, there is some SCOTUS decision that basically says you aren't required to prove or even admit who you are, unless you're a principle in a crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the best argument I 've seen .
And as I recall , there is some SCOTUS decision that basically says you are n't required to prove or even admit who you are , unless you 're a principle in a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the best argument I've seen.
And as I recall, there is some SCOTUS decision that basically says you aren't required to prove or even admit who you are, unless you're a principle in a crime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412954</id>
	<title>ID Card</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because that's exactly what we need, is to make employees at small businesses (remember, small businesses are important!  Every politician says so!) go to the DMV to get scanned.  You know, because the DMV moves people through so quickly...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because that 's exactly what we need , is to make employees at small businesses ( remember , small businesses are important !
Every politician says so !
) go to the DMV to get scanned .
You know , because the DMV moves people through so quickly.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because that's exactly what we need, is to make employees at small businesses (remember, small businesses are important!
Every politician says so!
) go to the DMV to get scanned.
You know, because the DMV moves people through so quickly...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413570</id>
	<title>Re:national ID</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1268149740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But it is an immigration bill.<br><br>Your new country is just coming to you, instead of you going to it.<br><br>The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave left you long ago..<br><br>Been a long journey but you're almost completely in the new country already.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>But it is an immigration bill.Your new country is just coming to you , instead of you going to it.The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave left you long ago..Been a long journey but you 're almost completely in the new country already .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But it is an immigration bill.Your new country is just coming to you, instead of you going to it.The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave left you long ago..Been a long journey but you're almost completely in the new country already.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978</id>
	<title>Rather open the borders</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and let in all the illegals than give those fucks in washington not only a national id card but one with biometric data.  Worse than the Nazis and Soviets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and let in all the illegals than give those fucks in washington not only a national id card but one with biometric data .
Worse than the Nazis and Soviets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and let in all the illegals than give those fucks in washington not only a national id card but one with biometric data.
Worse than the Nazis and Soviets.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414514</id>
	<title>Re:Instead of using crap like this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268153700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the main reasons why there are illegal immigrants in this country is because of the American factories in Central and South America.</p><p>Our companies go down there, turn their country into a worse shit-hole than it was previously, and the residents have no choice but to seek life elsewhere.</p><p>You have a very narrow view of global economics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the main reasons why there are illegal immigrants in this country is because of the American factories in Central and South America.Our companies go down there , turn their country into a worse shit-hole than it was previously , and the residents have no choice but to seek life elsewhere.You have a very narrow view of global economics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the main reasons why there are illegal immigrants in this country is because of the American factories in Central and South America.Our companies go down there, turn their country into a worse shit-hole than it was previously, and the residents have no choice but to seek life elsewhere.You have a very narrow view of global economics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415138</id>
	<title>Revelation 13:16</title>
	<author>operagost</author>
	<datestamp>1268155800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about the forehead?<blockquote><div><p> <tt>He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.</tt></p></div> </blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about the forehead ?
He also forced everyone , small and great , rich and poor , free and slave , to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead , so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark , which is the name of the beast or the number of his name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about the forehead?
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413978</id>
	<title>Re:Just need to have serious fines for employers</title>
	<author>digitig</author>
	<datestamp>1268151540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The real problem is that the big businesses (agriculture, meat packing, hospitality, commercial real-estate, etc..) want the cheap labor and won't let the problem be solved.</p></div><p>Or is it that Joe Public wants the cheap products and services that only cheap labor can provide, and won't let the problem be solved? It's just the free market in action.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem is that the big businesses ( agriculture , meat packing , hospitality , commercial real-estate , etc.. ) want the cheap labor and wo n't let the problem be solved.Or is it that Joe Public wants the cheap products and services that only cheap labor can provide , and wo n't let the problem be solved ?
It 's just the free market in action .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem is that the big businesses (agriculture, meat packing, hospitality, commercial real-estate, etc..) want the cheap labor and won't let the problem be solved.Or is it that Joe Public wants the cheap products and services that only cheap labor can provide, and won't let the problem be solved?
It's just the free market in action.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414198</id>
	<title>Re:Guilty until proven innocent.</title>
	<author>Nyrath the nearly wi</author>
	<datestamp>1268152440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>from The Notebooks of Lazarus Long by Robert Heinlein</p><blockquote><div><p>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID&rsquo;s, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>from The Notebooks of Lazarus Long by Robert HeinleinWhen a place gets crowded enough to require ID    s , social collapse is not far away .
It is time to go elsewhere .
The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>from The Notebooks of Lazarus Long by Robert HeinleinWhen a place gets crowded enough to require ID’s, social collapse is not far away.
It is time to go elsewhere.
The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413770</id>
	<title>Re:Start with lawmakers</title>
	<author>SecurityGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1268150700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Federal employees are already being issued biometric ID cards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Federal employees are already being issued biometric ID cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Federal employees are already being issued biometric ID cards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414686</id>
	<title>Illegal workers keep inflation in check</title>
	<author>ub3r n3u7r4l1st</author>
	<datestamp>1268154360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>because employers do not need to comply with costly labor laws.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>because employers do not need to comply with costly labor laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>because employers do not need to comply with costly labor laws.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124</id>
	<title>The Plans...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ok, so worker will be required to get it when they next change jobs, and the industries that will be forced to require this first are the ones which typically hire the most illegals. The industries that hire the most illegals are construction, food service, etc.  Those are also the industries where people are going to need to "change jobs" pretty soon, especially construction, due that sector having been hit the hardest by the economic issues.  Yet again, this is just another way to control the poorer workers, all the while making them feel like having to register body scans to get a job building houses is for their own good 'cause it'll keep "illegals" from getting the jobs or "terrorists" from blowing them up.<br> <br>How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor can't move freely?  How come I have to go through more trouble to get legal working status in another country than I do to invest in a foreign stock market?  Is it because the nation state is the new lord's estate and they want to keep me on the manor?  And to make sure we don't get any funny ideas, the Daddy Party tries to tell us we should hate our neighbors and do anything necessary to keep them out, fomenting racism and causing all sorts of animosity on both sides of the border, and the water, making sure that we're just as unwelcome abroad as they are here... screw this shit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , so worker will be required to get it when they next change jobs , and the industries that will be forced to require this first are the ones which typically hire the most illegals .
The industries that hire the most illegals are construction , food service , etc .
Those are also the industries where people are going to need to " change jobs " pretty soon , especially construction , due that sector having been hit the hardest by the economic issues .
Yet again , this is just another way to control the poorer workers , all the while making them feel like having to register body scans to get a job building houses is for their own good 'cause it 'll keep " illegals " from getting the jobs or " terrorists " from blowing them up .
How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor ca n't move freely ?
How come I have to go through more trouble to get legal working status in another country than I do to invest in a foreign stock market ?
Is it because the nation state is the new lord 's estate and they want to keep me on the manor ?
And to make sure we do n't get any funny ideas , the Daddy Party tries to tell us we should hate our neighbors and do anything necessary to keep them out , fomenting racism and causing all sorts of animosity on both sides of the border , and the water , making sure that we 're just as unwelcome abroad as they are here... screw this shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, so worker will be required to get it when they next change jobs, and the industries that will be forced to require this first are the ones which typically hire the most illegals.
The industries that hire the most illegals are construction, food service, etc.
Those are also the industries where people are going to need to "change jobs" pretty soon, especially construction, due that sector having been hit the hardest by the economic issues.
Yet again, this is just another way to control the poorer workers, all the while making them feel like having to register body scans to get a job building houses is for their own good 'cause it'll keep "illegals" from getting the jobs or "terrorists" from blowing them up.
How come its OK for capital to transfer across borders but labor can't move freely?
How come I have to go through more trouble to get legal working status in another country than I do to invest in a foreign stock market?
Is it because the nation state is the new lord's estate and they want to keep me on the manor?
And to make sure we don't get any funny ideas, the Daddy Party tries to tell us we should hate our neighbors and do anything necessary to keep them out, fomenting racism and causing all sorts of animosity on both sides of the border, and the water, making sure that we're just as unwelcome abroad as they are here... screw this shit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414778</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268154660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Remember kids, privacy != freedom</p></div><p> <i>Roe v Wade,</i> disagrees with you.</p><p>Substantive Due Process (derived from the Fourteenth Amendment) has routinely been held as emanating a constitutional right to privacy. The U.S. Constitution is a tenet of our freedom.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember kids , privacy ! = freedom Roe v Wade , disagrees with you.Substantive Due Process ( derived from the Fourteenth Amendment ) has routinely been held as emanating a constitutional right to privacy .
The U.S. Constitution is a tenet of our freedom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember kids, privacy != freedom Roe v Wade, disagrees with you.Substantive Due Process (derived from the Fourteenth Amendment) has routinely been held as emanating a constitutional right to privacy.
The U.S. Constitution is a tenet of our freedom.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414350</id>
	<title>What card ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268153100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>All the card I know of in the US can be falsified by any 15 year old kid wanting to drink. About the only one which are a tad bit more difficult are passport.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All the card I know of in the US can be falsified by any 15 year old kid wanting to drink .
About the only one which are a tad bit more difficult are passport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the card I know of in the US can be falsified by any 15 year old kid wanting to drink.
About the only one which are a tad bit more difficult are passport.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers. As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.</p><p>I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.</p><p>I bet it's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers .
As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it , I 'm not going to lose much sleep over it.I have to wonder , though , how many people who are going " oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack " would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.I bet it 's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers.
As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.I bet it's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415766</id>
	<title>... and a database</title>
	<author>GNUPublicLicense</author>
	<datestamp>1268158140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If those infos are matched on the "workers" database, ok, if not...

400 millions people data is nothing for a custom made database with modern technologies (i.e. do *not* use an SQL engine).</htmltext>
<tokenext>If those infos are matched on the " workers " database , ok , if not.. . 400 millions people data is nothing for a custom made database with modern technologies ( i.e .
do * not * use an SQL engine ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If those infos are matched on the "workers" database, ok, if not...

400 millions people data is nothing for a custom made database with modern technologies (i.e.
do *not* use an SQL engine).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31424432</id>
	<title>Why not use tattoos instead?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268220600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could put a number on everyone's arm.  It's worked before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification\_in\_Nazi\_camps</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could put a number on everyone 's arm .
It 's worked before - http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification \ _in \ _Nazi \ _camps</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could put a number on everyone's arm.
It's worked before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification\_in\_Nazi\_camps</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31425548</id>
	<title>Re:666</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is this funny? This is a BRILLIANT idea to get the legislation stomped on - so many USAsians seem to believe in the 2nd coming, and they're all supposed to be against such "branding" by the beast - you've got a guaranteed rabid campaign force against this thing - USE IT !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is this funny ?
This is a BRILLIANT idea to get the legislation stomped on - so many USAsians seem to believe in the 2nd coming , and they 're all supposed to be against such " branding " by the beast - you 've got a guaranteed rabid campaign force against this thing - USE IT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is this funny?
This is a BRILLIANT idea to get the legislation stomped on - so many USAsians seem to believe in the 2nd coming, and they're all supposed to be against such "branding" by the beast - you've got a guaranteed rabid campaign force against this thing - USE IT !</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416362</id>
	<title>Halt! Papers please!</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1268160420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What exactly will this round of "Halt! Papers please!" solve?</p><p>Prospective employers are already required to provide a (Social Security or TIN card) AND (birth certificate OR proof of voter registration). Illegal <i>aliens</i> (the correct legal term; illegal aliens are not immigrants they are criminal trespassers) already cannot provide that information and yet they are here leaching off of society.   I know quite a few people who have immigrated or are immigrating <i>legally</i> and it's a royal pain in the butt for them, is usually a long process, prone to delays and huge legal expenses, while the people who are here illegally are living off of our backs (in many cases receiving welfare, "free"[sic] health care, etc.) and are pushing for amnesty. WTF? Our system is seriously broken and much like "pirated"[sic] Windows, entering illegally(read: invading) is often easier than immigrating (read: the legal way).</p><p>If I had my way, all illegal aliens who have been leaching off of our system would all be plunked down in the middle of the pacific in tiny rowboats and left to fend for themselves, especially the ones who come here and fly foreign flags and insist that forms be handed to them in languages other than American English.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What exactly will this round of " Halt !
Papers please !
" solve ? Prospective employers are already required to provide a ( Social Security or TIN card ) AND ( birth certificate OR proof of voter registration ) .
Illegal aliens ( the correct legal term ; illegal aliens are not immigrants they are criminal trespassers ) already can not provide that information and yet they are here leaching off of society .
I know quite a few people who have immigrated or are immigrating legally and it 's a royal pain in the butt for them , is usually a long process , prone to delays and huge legal expenses , while the people who are here illegally are living off of our backs ( in many cases receiving welfare , " free " [ sic ] health care , etc .
) and are pushing for amnesty .
WTF ? Our system is seriously broken and much like " pirated " [ sic ] Windows , entering illegally ( read : invading ) is often easier than immigrating ( read : the legal way ) .If I had my way , all illegal aliens who have been leaching off of our system would all be plunked down in the middle of the pacific in tiny rowboats and left to fend for themselves , especially the ones who come here and fly foreign flags and insist that forms be handed to them in languages other than American English .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What exactly will this round of "Halt!
Papers please!
" solve?Prospective employers are already required to provide a (Social Security or TIN card) AND (birth certificate OR proof of voter registration).
Illegal aliens (the correct legal term; illegal aliens are not immigrants they are criminal trespassers) already cannot provide that information and yet they are here leaching off of society.
I know quite a few people who have immigrated or are immigrating legally and it's a royal pain in the butt for them, is usually a long process, prone to delays and huge legal expenses, while the people who are here illegally are living off of our backs (in many cases receiving welfare, "free"[sic] health care, etc.
) and are pushing for amnesty.
WTF? Our system is seriously broken and much like "pirated"[sic] Windows, entering illegally(read: invading) is often easier than immigrating (read: the legal way).If I had my way, all illegal aliens who have been leaching off of our system would all be plunked down in the middle of the pacific in tiny rowboats and left to fend for themselves, especially the ones who come here and fly foreign flags and insist that forms be handed to them in languages other than American English.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418980</id>
	<title>Re:Bullshit</title>
	<author>Natales</author>
	<datestamp>1268128620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Denial is the most predictable of human responses. But rest assured: this is the sixth time we've done it. And we are getting exceedingly efficient at it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Denial is the most predictable of human responses .
But rest assured : this is the sixth time we 've done it .
And we are getting exceedingly efficient at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Denial is the most predictable of human responses.
But rest assured: this is the sixth time we've done it.
And we are getting exceedingly efficient at it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412902</id>
	<title>This ended so well in the UK...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They tried this in the UK, long story short, it costs millions and nobody has an ID card. It was also found to be completely impractical. I wish the US the best of luck with their scheme.</p><p>PS - What happens if you literally have no hands? Can you not work?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They tried this in the UK , long story short , it costs millions and nobody has an ID card .
It was also found to be completely impractical .
I wish the US the best of luck with their scheme.PS - What happens if you literally have no hands ?
Can you not work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They tried this in the UK, long story short, it costs millions and nobody has an ID card.
It was also found to be completely impractical.
I wish the US the best of luck with their scheme.PS - What happens if you literally have no hands?
Can you not work?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414304</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268152860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The unemployment for poor Americans over 30\%. If they where offered these jobs they would take it. The problem is that American citizens are and legal immigrants get legal protection and enforcement of worker rights so the employees can't get away with treating them like animals and paying them under the minimum wage without paying taxes. So they hire illegals instead.<br>This isn't about people not willing to do hard work. This is about employers not willing to follow the law.</p><p>Of course fixing the problem is easy, go after employers of illegals not the employees and the problem would be over fast. Especially if you aim high in the chain of command.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The unemployment for poor Americans over 30 \ % .
If they where offered these jobs they would take it .
The problem is that American citizens are and legal immigrants get legal protection and enforcement of worker rights so the employees ca n't get away with treating them like animals and paying them under the minimum wage without paying taxes .
So they hire illegals instead.This is n't about people not willing to do hard work .
This is about employers not willing to follow the law.Of course fixing the problem is easy , go after employers of illegals not the employees and the problem would be over fast .
Especially if you aim high in the chain of command .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The unemployment for poor Americans over 30\%.
If they where offered these jobs they would take it.
The problem is that American citizens are and legal immigrants get legal protection and enforcement of worker rights so the employees can't get away with treating them like animals and paying them under the minimum wage without paying taxes.
So they hire illegals instead.This isn't about people not willing to do hard work.
This is about employers not willing to follow the law.Of course fixing the problem is easy, go after employers of illegals not the employees and the problem would be over fast.
Especially if you aim high in the chain of command.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412844</id>
	<title>I like this idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see a problem with this. It doesn't infringe upon our rights at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see a problem with this .
It does n't infringe upon our rights at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see a problem with this.
It doesn't infringe upon our rights at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412830</id>
	<title>Papers Please!</title>
	<author>Nesman64</author>
	<datestamp>1268146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I must see your papers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I must see your papers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I must see your papers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414048</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1268151840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Remember kids, privacy != freedom</p></div><p>It's been well-established that a lack of privacy discourages people from peaceful assembly and accessing other tools necessary to the success of a democracy. When we have designated protest zones in cages tipped with razor wire and a hundred cameras covering every angle, and people being profiled by the FBI and investigated as potential subversives for doing this, it becomes clear that privacy, while not being the same as freedom, is essential to it. One cannot survive without the other.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember kids , privacy ! = freedomIt 's been well-established that a lack of privacy discourages people from peaceful assembly and accessing other tools necessary to the success of a democracy .
When we have designated protest zones in cages tipped with razor wire and a hundred cameras covering every angle , and people being profiled by the FBI and investigated as potential subversives for doing this , it becomes clear that privacy , while not being the same as freedom , is essential to it .
One can not survive without the other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember kids, privacy != freedomIt's been well-established that a lack of privacy discourages people from peaceful assembly and accessing other tools necessary to the success of a democracy.
When we have designated protest zones in cages tipped with razor wire and a hundred cameras covering every angle, and people being profiled by the FBI and investigated as potential subversives for doing this, it becomes clear that privacy, while not being the same as freedom, is essential to it.
One cannot survive without the other.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415082</id>
	<title>Re:Instead of using crap like this...</title>
	<author>Sloppy</author>
	<datestamp>1268155620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3. Lower/remove barriers to legal immigration.  If doing it legally were as easy/cheap/reliable as doing it illegally, then what's the incentive to do it illegally?  (The ability to not pay taxes or have big brother watching your life in the databases?  Sheesh, <em>anyone</em> can go underground, become a hobo, and take fruit-picking jobs for off-the-books cash.  You don't have to be an illegal immigrant to do that, but hardly anyone <em>wants</em> to.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3 .
Lower/remove barriers to legal immigration .
If doing it legally were as easy/cheap/reliable as doing it illegally , then what 's the incentive to do it illegally ?
( The ability to not pay taxes or have big brother watching your life in the databases ?
Sheesh , anyone can go underground , become a hobo , and take fruit-picking jobs for off-the-books cash .
You do n't have to be an illegal immigrant to do that , but hardly anyone wants to .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3.
Lower/remove barriers to legal immigration.
If doing it legally were as easy/cheap/reliable as doing it illegally, then what's the incentive to do it illegally?
(The ability to not pay taxes or have big brother watching your life in the databases?
Sheesh, anyone can go underground, become a hobo, and take fruit-picking jobs for off-the-books cash.
You don't have to be an illegal immigrant to do that, but hardly anyone wants to.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</id>
	<title>Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268149260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting "Dey took our jerbs!", but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, i.e. scrubbing toilets for low wages, then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work.</p><p>Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs, and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway. Those immigrants are greasing the wheels of the economy, doing jobs that nobody else wants to do.</p><p>I see it in my own country (Netherlands) where we have to ship in seasonal workers to harvest asparagus crops because they just can't get the local people to do the hard work.</p><p>It'll be interesting to see the effects of this plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting " Dey took our jerbs !
" , but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing , i.e .
scrubbing toilets for low wages , then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work.Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs , and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway .
Those immigrants are greasing the wheels of the economy , doing jobs that nobody else wants to do.I see it in my own country ( Netherlands ) where we have to ship in seasonal workers to harvest asparagus crops because they just ca n't get the local people to do the hard work.It 'll be interesting to see the effects of this plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's funny how a lot of Americans are shouting "Dey took our jerbs!
", but when you actually offer them the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, i.e.
scrubbing toilets for low wages, then suddenly they are too good for that kind of work.Illegal immigrants do not take away high-pay jobs, and those actual high pay jobs are routinely shipped off to India and alike anyway.
Those immigrants are greasing the wheels of the economy, doing jobs that nobody else wants to do.I see it in my own country (Netherlands) where we have to ship in seasonal workers to harvest asparagus crops because they just can't get the local people to do the hard work.It'll be interesting to see the effects of this plan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412854</id>
	<title>Bullshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ain't gonna happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ai n't gon na happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ain't gonna happen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415036</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>shipbrick</author>
	<datestamp>1268155440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"privacy != freedom"
<br> <br>
Perhaps, but privacy does allow for freedom.  If one has privacy then it doesn't matter what they are doing, even if they are doing something illegal, they are likely to not get caught and thus are "free" to do what they please (of course depending on the crime, but I'm thinking nonviolent, not affecting others, such as say drug use).
<br>
In Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 , the Supreme Court ruled that the 4th amendment included a person's "reasonable expectation of privacy". What 'reasonable' means, IANAL, but I think the SCOTUS was right that the founding fathers meant the fourth amendment as a kind of privacy.  I think that privacy is a strong driving force behind at least a few amendments within the bill the rights, and privacy in many respects is strongly interrelated with various aspects of freedom.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" privacy ! = freedom " Perhaps , but privacy does allow for freedom .
If one has privacy then it does n't matter what they are doing , even if they are doing something illegal , they are likely to not get caught and thus are " free " to do what they please ( of course depending on the crime , but I 'm thinking nonviolent , not affecting others , such as say drug use ) .
In Katz v. United States , 389 U.S. 347 , the Supreme Court ruled that the 4th amendment included a person 's " reasonable expectation of privacy " .
What 'reasonable ' means , IANAL , but I think the SCOTUS was right that the founding fathers meant the fourth amendment as a kind of privacy .
I think that privacy is a strong driving force behind at least a few amendments within the bill the rights , and privacy in many respects is strongly interrelated with various aspects of freedom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"privacy != freedom"
 
Perhaps, but privacy does allow for freedom.
If one has privacy then it doesn't matter what they are doing, even if they are doing something illegal, they are likely to not get caught and thus are "free" to do what they please (of course depending on the crime, but I'm thinking nonviolent, not affecting others, such as say drug use).
In Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 , the Supreme Court ruled that the 4th amendment included a person's "reasonable expectation of privacy".
What 'reasonable' means, IANAL, but I think the SCOTUS was right that the founding fathers meant the fourth amendment as a kind of privacy.
I think that privacy is a strong driving force behind at least a few amendments within the bill the rights, and privacy in many respects is strongly interrelated with various aspects of freedom.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413106</id>
	<title>For the union makes us strong...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Save me IWW! *runs off crying*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Save me IWW !
* runs off crying *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Save me IWW!
*runs off crying*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414678</id>
	<title>National ID or Bust</title>
	<author>CopaceticOpus</author>
	<datestamp>1268154300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The national ID card proposals have met a lot of resistance, so someone had a clever idea - let's tie it to a popular cause. It's a recession, so everyone wants their jobs protected, and they'll go for anything.</p><p>If this doesn't work, the next attempt will be an ID card to prove that you're not a sex offender. You know, to protect the children.</p><p>I'm curious what would happen if this program actually worked as intended. What do all the illegal immigrants who suddenly have no means of income do? Surrender to immigration or turn to crime?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The national ID card proposals have met a lot of resistance , so someone had a clever idea - let 's tie it to a popular cause .
It 's a recession , so everyone wants their jobs protected , and they 'll go for anything.If this does n't work , the next attempt will be an ID card to prove that you 're not a sex offender .
You know , to protect the children.I 'm curious what would happen if this program actually worked as intended .
What do all the illegal immigrants who suddenly have no means of income do ?
Surrender to immigration or turn to crime ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The national ID card proposals have met a lot of resistance, so someone had a clever idea - let's tie it to a popular cause.
It's a recession, so everyone wants their jobs protected, and they'll go for anything.If this doesn't work, the next attempt will be an ID card to prove that you're not a sex offender.
You know, to protect the children.I'm curious what would happen if this program actually worked as intended.
What do all the illegal immigrants who suddenly have no means of income do?
Surrender to immigration or turn to crime?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413116</id>
	<title>Not a fix</title>
	<author>Datamonstar</author>
	<datestamp>1268147760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the immigration system wasn't so fucked up to begin with we wouldn't be seeing this. Corruption in Mexico and on this side of the border is largely what causes the problems that this stupid card is supposed to fix. It will not fix them. Illegal aliens are nothing if not highly intelligent and resourceful. The U.S. government is nothing if not blundering and ill-managed. This will not fix the problem, but instead introduce new problems for those who didn't have them before. The cards will solve nothing. I have illegal immigrants in my family who work here and I would love to see an opportunity for them to be able to be able to stay and make a living, but not at this cost. I refuse to trade freedom for a slightly and increasingly lesser form of freedom. I will be putting the word out that the US has its balls trapped on the immigration issue and that people should not be quick to support something just to get what they think they want only later to discover that it's actually a pair of shackles. Technology is not magic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the immigration system was n't so fucked up to begin with we would n't be seeing this .
Corruption in Mexico and on this side of the border is largely what causes the problems that this stupid card is supposed to fix .
It will not fix them .
Illegal aliens are nothing if not highly intelligent and resourceful .
The U.S. government is nothing if not blundering and ill-managed .
This will not fix the problem , but instead introduce new problems for those who did n't have them before .
The cards will solve nothing .
I have illegal immigrants in my family who work here and I would love to see an opportunity for them to be able to be able to stay and make a living , but not at this cost .
I refuse to trade freedom for a slightly and increasingly lesser form of freedom .
I will be putting the word out that the US has its balls trapped on the immigration issue and that people should not be quick to support something just to get what they think they want only later to discover that it 's actually a pair of shackles .
Technology is not magic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the immigration system wasn't so fucked up to begin with we wouldn't be seeing this.
Corruption in Mexico and on this side of the border is largely what causes the problems that this stupid card is supposed to fix.
It will not fix them.
Illegal aliens are nothing if not highly intelligent and resourceful.
The U.S. government is nothing if not blundering and ill-managed.
This will not fix the problem, but instead introduce new problems for those who didn't have them before.
The cards will solve nothing.
I have illegal immigrants in my family who work here and I would love to see an opportunity for them to be able to be able to stay and make a living, but not at this cost.
I refuse to trade freedom for a slightly and increasingly lesser form of freedom.
I will be putting the word out that the US has its balls trapped on the immigration issue and that people should not be quick to support something just to get what they think they want only later to discover that it's actually a pair of shackles.
Technology is not magic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413250</id>
	<title>What's the point?</title>
	<author>macemoneta</author>
	<datestamp>1268148420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do they really think this card can't be duplicated / created illegally?  If it's actually too hard to make one, people will just steal the materials or bribe someone.  As is done today.  The only ones that will be impacted, as usual, are those attempting to follow the law, who get eaten alive by the bureaucracy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do they really think this card ca n't be duplicated / created illegally ?
If it 's actually too hard to make one , people will just steal the materials or bribe someone .
As is done today .
The only ones that will be impacted , as usual , are those attempting to follow the law , who get eaten alive by the bureaucracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do they really think this card can't be duplicated / created illegally?
If it's actually too hard to make one, people will just steal the materials or bribe someone.
As is done today.
The only ones that will be impacted, as usual, are those attempting to follow the law, who get eaten alive by the bureaucracy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415128</id>
	<title>Privacy != Secrecy</title>
	<author>denzacar</author>
	<datestamp>1268155740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you are thinking of is secrecy, not privacy.</p><p>You want your identity to be secret - you NEVER had that.<br>ID or no ID, every police officer in the world can stop you and request that you identify yourself. It is a routine and essential part of what police does.<br>Having an ID just means that once he checks it he has no further reason to detain you unless you are breaking the law.</p><p>Privacy on the other hand means that you don't have identify yourself to everyone else unless you want to.<br>It also means that you can call on countries laws for anything beyond simple ID check by a police officer. Things like 4th and 5th Amendment in the USA.</p><p>As for freedom...<br>It is not a IS or IS NOT thing. It is a concept. An idea.<br>You can be free while in chains and you can be a prisoner to an idea.</p><p>A piece of plastic with your name and description on it makes you no lees free or private than before.<br>And you were never secret.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you are thinking of is secrecy , not privacy.You want your identity to be secret - you NEVER had that.ID or no ID , every police officer in the world can stop you and request that you identify yourself .
It is a routine and essential part of what police does.Having an ID just means that once he checks it he has no further reason to detain you unless you are breaking the law.Privacy on the other hand means that you do n't have identify yourself to everyone else unless you want to.It also means that you can call on countries laws for anything beyond simple ID check by a police officer .
Things like 4th and 5th Amendment in the USA.As for freedom...It is not a IS or IS NOT thing .
It is a concept .
An idea.You can be free while in chains and you can be a prisoner to an idea.A piece of plastic with your name and description on it makes you no lees free or private than before.And you were never secret .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you are thinking of is secrecy, not privacy.You want your identity to be secret - you NEVER had that.ID or no ID, every police officer in the world can stop you and request that you identify yourself.
It is a routine and essential part of what police does.Having an ID just means that once he checks it he has no further reason to detain you unless you are breaking the law.Privacy on the other hand means that you don't have identify yourself to everyone else unless you want to.It also means that you can call on countries laws for anything beyond simple ID check by a police officer.
Things like 4th and 5th Amendment in the USA.As for freedom...It is not a IS or IS NOT thing.
It is a concept.
An idea.You can be free while in chains and you can be a prisoner to an idea.A piece of plastic with your name and description on it makes you no lees free or private than before.And you were never secret.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31423562</id>
	<title>If the UK can't, no way the US will</title>
	<author>gregconquest</author>
	<datestamp>1268164620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I personally think ID cards and pervasive CCTV monitoring would be a good thing IFF the data were fed directly into an independent, accredited agency which only released or confirmed data under strict guidelines.

However:

A national ID doesn't have a prayer of being implemented in America anytime soon. The UK can't even pull this off, and those "apathetes" let their government watch them everywhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I personally think ID cards and pervasive CCTV monitoring would be a good thing IFF the data were fed directly into an independent , accredited agency which only released or confirmed data under strict guidelines .
However : A national ID does n't have a prayer of being implemented in America anytime soon .
The UK ca n't even pull this off , and those " apathetes " let their government watch them everywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I personally think ID cards and pervasive CCTV monitoring would be a good thing IFF the data were fed directly into an independent, accredited agency which only released or confirmed data under strict guidelines.
However:

A national ID doesn't have a prayer of being implemented in America anytime soon.
The UK can't even pull this off, and those "apathetes" let their government watch them everywhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416160</id>
	<title>It is the efficiency which is eroding liberties</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268159640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While there are all those other bits of paper it is more difficult to keep tabs on you. Once there is a single card for all purposes, it becomes essential to have one, and simple to track you down.</p><p>No, it is not the same as having all the other "papers".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While there are all those other bits of paper it is more difficult to keep tabs on you .
Once there is a single card for all purposes , it becomes essential to have one , and simple to track you down.No , it is not the same as having all the other " papers " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While there are all those other bits of paper it is more difficult to keep tabs on you.
Once there is a single card for all purposes, it becomes essential to have one, and simple to track you down.No, it is not the same as having all the other "papers".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414062</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1268151960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>i.e. scrubbing toilets for <b>low wages</b></p> </div><p>I outlined in bold what's wrong with this example. The job you mention is not competitive. Why would someone work that hard for so little when there's easier work for more money? Offer a higher salary. The "too good for that kind of work" excuse only matters, if the job is competitive with other US jobs. People may be stupid economically, but they're not that stupid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>i.e .
scrubbing toilets for low wages I outlined in bold what 's wrong with this example .
The job you mention is not competitive .
Why would someone work that hard for so little when there 's easier work for more money ?
Offer a higher salary .
The " too good for that kind of work " excuse only matters , if the job is competitive with other US jobs .
People may be stupid economically , but they 're not that stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i.e.
scrubbing toilets for low wages I outlined in bold what's wrong with this example.
The job you mention is not competitive.
Why would someone work that hard for so little when there's easier work for more money?
Offer a higher salary.
The "too good for that kind of work" excuse only matters, if the job is competitive with other US jobs.
People may be stupid economically, but they're not that stupid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412974</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Implement socialism<br>2. Immigration subsequently becomes a problem<br>3. Implement national biometric identification card<br>4. Slide into a police state.<br>5. ?<br>6. Profit for the inner party.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Implement socialism2 .
Immigration subsequently becomes a problem3 .
Implement national biometric identification card4 .
Slide into a police state.5 .
? 6. Profit for the inner party .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Implement socialism2.
Immigration subsequently becomes a problem3.
Implement national biometric identification card4.
Slide into a police state.5.
?6. Profit for the inner party.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415064</id>
	<title>Re:Rather open the borders</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268155560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this kinda stuff is worse than the Nazis or the Soviets, why hasn't armed revolution taken place?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this kinda stuff is worse than the Nazis or the Soviets , why has n't armed revolution taken place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this kinda stuff is worse than the Nazis or the Soviets, why hasn't armed revolution taken place?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412960</id>
	<title>Start with lawmakers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fine, congressmen should get the cards first.  If they still like the idea after 6 years, let them try and foist it on the rest of us.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fine , congressmen should get the cards first .
If they still like the idea after 6 years , let them try and foist it on the rest of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fine, congressmen should get the cards first.
If they still like the idea after 6 years, let them try and foist it on the rest of us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413308</id>
	<title>How do you authenticate?</title>
	<author>Churla</author>
	<datestamp>1268148720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, if employees would have to get them when they got new jobs would this be something done in the field or something someone would have to go to an office to pick up?  If the latter than exactly how much do you think immigrant workers who cross the border to work in the fields will stop by a government office to register?</p><p>If it's the former what stops anybody from creating a second indentity for themselves by simply getting a job, saying they have no ID, and getting a card?   Or stops someone who is here from mexico (many of whom don't have birth certificates they could find or any documentation) from simply creating identities ad hoc?</p><p>Also, for the sake of comic relief, can we call it a Multipass?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , if employees would have to get them when they got new jobs would this be something done in the field or something someone would have to go to an office to pick up ?
If the latter than exactly how much do you think immigrant workers who cross the border to work in the fields will stop by a government office to register ? If it 's the former what stops anybody from creating a second indentity for themselves by simply getting a job , saying they have no ID , and getting a card ?
Or stops someone who is here from mexico ( many of whom do n't have birth certificates they could find or any documentation ) from simply creating identities ad hoc ? Also , for the sake of comic relief , can we call it a Multipass ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, if employees would have to get them when they got new jobs would this be something done in the field or something someone would have to go to an office to pick up?
If the latter than exactly how much do you think immigrant workers who cross the border to work in the fields will stop by a government office to register?If it's the former what stops anybody from creating a second indentity for themselves by simply getting a job, saying they have no ID, and getting a card?
Or stops someone who is here from mexico (many of whom don't have birth certificates they could find or any documentation) from simply creating identities ad hoc?Also, for the sake of comic relief, can we call it a Multipass?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</id>
	<title>Another card?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why do we need another card? Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we need another card ?
Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we need another card?
Seems to me that identity thieves have enough things to use already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414534</id>
	<title>Doesn't solve the enforcement problem...</title>
	<author>Urban Garlic</author>
	<datestamp>1268153760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with illegal immigration isn't a lack of legislation -- as you might perhaps guess from the name, <b>illegal</b> immigration is <b>already illegal</b>.</p><p>There is <b>already</b> a card you're supposed to have in order to be employed in the US -- it's the Social Security card, which your employer needs to see in order to do payroll deductions.</p><p>Illegal immigration is a problem because existing laws are not enforced.  I think they should start there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with illegal immigration is n't a lack of legislation -- as you might perhaps guess from the name , illegal immigration is already illegal.There is already a card you 're supposed to have in order to be employed in the US -- it 's the Social Security card , which your employer needs to see in order to do payroll deductions.Illegal immigration is a problem because existing laws are not enforced .
I think they should start there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with illegal immigration isn't a lack of legislation -- as you might perhaps guess from the name, illegal immigration is already illegal.There is already a card you're supposed to have in order to be employed in the US -- it's the Social Security card, which your employer needs to see in order to do payroll deductions.Illegal immigration is a problem because existing laws are not enforced.
I think they should start there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415486</id>
	<title>Re:national ID</title>
	<author>kramerd</author>
	<datestamp>1268157000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We already have national ID cards, but currently they are optional. Go to your local DMV and ask for a personal identification card (useful if you don't drive but still wish to purchase age restricted items or sometimes to use a credit card). On a more obvious example, passports.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We already have national ID cards , but currently they are optional .
Go to your local DMV and ask for a personal identification card ( useful if you do n't drive but still wish to purchase age restricted items or sometimes to use a credit card ) .
On a more obvious example , passports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We already have national ID cards, but currently they are optional.
Go to your local DMV and ask for a personal identification card (useful if you don't drive but still wish to purchase age restricted items or sometimes to use a credit card).
On a more obvious example, passports.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414202</id>
	<title>Your Rights Online?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268152440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about "Your Rights In Real Life"?  Not like they will require using one of these cards to log on to the internet.</p><p>Oops, don't want to give them any bright ideas...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about " Your Rights In Real Life " ?
Not like they will require using one of these cards to log on to the internet.Oops , do n't want to give them any bright ideas.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about "Your Rights In Real Life"?
Not like they will require using one of these cards to log on to the internet.Oops, don't want to give them any bright ideas...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31426576</id>
	<title>silly USAians</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268238420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We'll have something like this in Brazil in a few years, hopefully it will replace the miriad of national-wide ID documents we now have... you merrikans are paranoid about this, it's so silly... go take a picture of that flying saucer flying over your backyard...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 'll have something like this in Brazil in a few years , hopefully it will replace the miriad of national-wide ID documents we now have... you merrikans are paranoid about this , it 's so silly... go take a picture of that flying saucer flying over your backyard.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We'll have something like this in Brazil in a few years, hopefully it will replace the miriad of national-wide ID documents we now have... you merrikans are paranoid about this, it's so silly... go take a picture of that flying saucer flying over your backyard...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413790</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268150760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what the fuck is a roadblock and why would I stop for it? you don't need to carry any of those things if you leave your house and take public transit or walk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what the fuck is a roadblock and why would I stop for it ?
you do n't need to carry any of those things if you leave your house and take public transit or walk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what the fuck is a roadblock and why would I stop for it?
you don't need to carry any of those things if you leave your house and take public transit or walk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413158</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>langelgjm</author>
	<datestamp>1268147940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The difference is that requiring you to have a driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance helps ME if you hit me with your car. And you're entirely free to walk around or take public transportation without any kind of identification whatsoever. That's not the case in many other countries. In the US, you are only required to have (and carry) a driver's license if you want to drive. Unless there's some law I'm unaware of that requires everyone to learn how to drive, which there isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference is that requiring you to have a driver 's license , registration , and proof of insurance helps ME if you hit me with your car .
And you 're entirely free to walk around or take public transportation without any kind of identification whatsoever .
That 's not the case in many other countries .
In the US , you are only required to have ( and carry ) a driver 's license if you want to drive .
Unless there 's some law I 'm unaware of that requires everyone to learn how to drive , which there is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference is that requiring you to have a driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance helps ME if you hit me with your car.
And you're entirely free to walk around or take public transportation without any kind of identification whatsoever.
That's not the case in many other countries.
In the US, you are only required to have (and carry) a driver's license if you want to drive.
Unless there's some law I'm unaware of that requires everyone to learn how to drive, which there isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414888</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268155020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, they try to support this successful traditional American industry.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , they try to support this successful traditional American industry .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, they try to support this successful traditional American industry.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416046</id>
	<title>the terrist have nothing on US pols</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268159220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away.</i></p></div></blockquote><p> --Robert A. Heinlein</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID 's , social collapse is not far away .
--Robert A. Heinlein</tokentext>
<sentencetext> When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away.
--Robert A. Heinlein
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416372</id>
	<title>Re:666</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1268160420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not a bad idea actually. I hereby officially point out that this is just the next step in the beast's plan to place a mark upon each person according to the prophesy. We must drive Satan and his minions from our government right now! We can start with Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.).</p><p>Cast the devil out! Do not listen to them for they are the minions of the prince of lies!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not a bad idea actually .
I hereby officially point out that this is just the next step in the beast 's plan to place a mark upon each person according to the prophesy .
We must drive Satan and his minions from our government right now !
We can start with Sens .
Chuck Schumer ( D. , N.Y. ) and Lindsey Graham ( R. , S.C. ) .Cast the devil out !
Do not listen to them for they are the minions of the prince of lies !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not a bad idea actually.
I hereby officially point out that this is just the next step in the beast's plan to place a mark upon each person according to the prophesy.
We must drive Satan and his minions from our government right now!
We can start with Sens.
Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.).Cast the devil out!
Do not listen to them for they are the minions of the prince of lies!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416888</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>Gilmoure</author>
	<datestamp>1268163000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://blog.djapoc.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1260579325379\_thumb.jpg" title="djapoc.com">Multipass!</a> [djapoc.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Multipass !
[ djapoc.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Multipass!
[djapoc.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418358</id>
	<title>Are fingerprints actually unique?</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1268125980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can anyone point to a scientific study which shows that an individuals fingerprints are unique to that individual? It is commonly accepted that each individual's fingerprints are unique to that individual. However, when I looked into it, I discovered that this was a claim made by some in the late 1800s, which gradually came to be accepted as true. As far as I can tell no one ever did any detailed research to actually determine if it was true. <br>
To make matters worse, when some studies have been done of how reliably experts can identify someone from fingerprints they have discovered that the vast majority of fingerprint experts (in a relatively small sample size) will fail to identify a set of fingerprint samples as belonging to the same person two times in a row. <br>
For that matter has anyone done a study of other proposed biometric identification to show that it is unique in ways that do not vary over an individual's lifetime? <br>
Understand, it is not that I believe that fingerprints are not unique (or other means of biometric identification), it is just that I think it would be wise to actually study the question rather than just assume it to be so, as all of the information I have been able to find seems to indicate is the current case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can anyone point to a scientific study which shows that an individuals fingerprints are unique to that individual ?
It is commonly accepted that each individual 's fingerprints are unique to that individual .
However , when I looked into it , I discovered that this was a claim made by some in the late 1800s , which gradually came to be accepted as true .
As far as I can tell no one ever did any detailed research to actually determine if it was true .
To make matters worse , when some studies have been done of how reliably experts can identify someone from fingerprints they have discovered that the vast majority of fingerprint experts ( in a relatively small sample size ) will fail to identify a set of fingerprint samples as belonging to the same person two times in a row .
For that matter has anyone done a study of other proposed biometric identification to show that it is unique in ways that do not vary over an individual 's lifetime ?
Understand , it is not that I believe that fingerprints are not unique ( or other means of biometric identification ) , it is just that I think it would be wise to actually study the question rather than just assume it to be so , as all of the information I have been able to find seems to indicate is the current case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can anyone point to a scientific study which shows that an individuals fingerprints are unique to that individual?
It is commonly accepted that each individual's fingerprints are unique to that individual.
However, when I looked into it, I discovered that this was a claim made by some in the late 1800s, which gradually came to be accepted as true.
As far as I can tell no one ever did any detailed research to actually determine if it was true.
To make matters worse, when some studies have been done of how reliably experts can identify someone from fingerprints they have discovered that the vast majority of fingerprint experts (in a relatively small sample size) will fail to identify a set of fingerprint samples as belonging to the same person two times in a row.
For that matter has anyone done a study of other proposed biometric identification to show that it is unique in ways that do not vary over an individual's lifetime?
Understand, it is not that I believe that fingerprints are not unique (or other means of biometric identification), it is just that I think it would be wise to actually study the question rather than just assume it to be so, as all of the information I have been able to find seems to indicate is the current case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413328</id>
	<title>Re:Meh</title>
	<author>BrianRoach</author>
	<datestamp>1268148780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A social security card is not required.  It <i>can</i> be used as a "List C" document for the I9 form.</p><p><a href="http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background\_2.htm" title="about.com">http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background\_2.htm</a> [about.com]</p><p>I simply use my passport since it's a "List A" document. Which begs the question<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... why is it that we need something more than that? Like this new thing is going to be "unforgeable" ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A social security card is not required .
It can be used as a " List C " document for the I9 form.http : //jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background \ _2.htm [ about.com ] I simply use my passport since it 's a " List A " document .
Which begs the question ... why is it that we need something more than that ?
Like this new thing is going to be " unforgeable " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A social security card is not required.
It can be used as a "List C" document for the I9 form.http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background\_2.htm [about.com]I simply use my passport since it's a "List A" document.
Which begs the question ... why is it that we need something more than that?
Like this new thing is going to be "unforgeable" ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413890</id>
	<title>Similar to what happens in the Netherlands</title>
	<author>vikingpower</author>
	<datestamp>1268151300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the Netherlands, having your fingerprints taken when applying for a new passport became obligatory last year. The government pretended that this was necessary in order to fight terrorism, although the measure is way more severre than what the European Union requires governments to do. There were and still are some civil rights organizations protesting against this security craze.</p><p>A very unfortunate side effect of this became visible at the latest elections. People were required to bring a passport along with their voter's registration card. 200,000 voters, a significant percentage of the country's registered voters, didnot have such an ID, for various reasons ( poverty, ignorance, laxism, protest ). Thus, they were excluded from the most fundamental mechanism underlying a democracy: voting.</p><p>Americans, beware !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the Netherlands , having your fingerprints taken when applying for a new passport became obligatory last year .
The government pretended that this was necessary in order to fight terrorism , although the measure is way more severre than what the European Union requires governments to do .
There were and still are some civil rights organizations protesting against this security craze.A very unfortunate side effect of this became visible at the latest elections .
People were required to bring a passport along with their voter 's registration card .
200,000 voters , a significant percentage of the country 's registered voters , didnot have such an ID , for various reasons ( poverty , ignorance , laxism , protest ) .
Thus , they were excluded from the most fundamental mechanism underlying a democracy : voting.Americans , beware !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the Netherlands, having your fingerprints taken when applying for a new passport became obligatory last year.
The government pretended that this was necessary in order to fight terrorism, although the measure is way more severre than what the European Union requires governments to do.
There were and still are some civil rights organizations protesting against this security craze.A very unfortunate side effect of this became visible at the latest elections.
People were required to bring a passport along with their voter's registration card.
200,000 voters, a significant percentage of the country's registered voters, didnot have such an ID, for various reasons ( poverty, ignorance, laxism, protest ).
Thus, they were excluded from the most fundamental mechanism underlying a democracy: voting.Americans, beware !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222</id>
	<title>Instead of using crap like this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of using crap like this to stop illegals, do this instead:<br>1.Do whatever is necessary to ensure legal American workers can get (and will try to get) the jobs that illegals are currently taking. Tie this work to unemployment benefits (i.e. if you are currently out of work and receiving any kind of government unemployment benefits you have to take these jobs. Possibly the government over there could do what the government here in Australia did and introduce "work for the dole" (which is where you work at the jobs like fruit picking that would otherwise be taken by illegals in the American system but instead of being paid by the employer out of their pockets, the government pays what they would have paid you in unemployment/dole payments)</p><p>2.Encourage American companies to build factories and other things in Central America where the illegals come from (if a Mexican has a good job in Mexico, they have a lot less reason to try to come to America and work for almost no pay because any job that pays anything decent wont take the risk of hiring people without proper paperwork)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of using crap like this to stop illegals , do this instead : 1.Do whatever is necessary to ensure legal American workers can get ( and will try to get ) the jobs that illegals are currently taking .
Tie this work to unemployment benefits ( i.e .
if you are currently out of work and receiving any kind of government unemployment benefits you have to take these jobs .
Possibly the government over there could do what the government here in Australia did and introduce " work for the dole " ( which is where you work at the jobs like fruit picking that would otherwise be taken by illegals in the American system but instead of being paid by the employer out of their pockets , the government pays what they would have paid you in unemployment/dole payments ) 2.Encourage American companies to build factories and other things in Central America where the illegals come from ( if a Mexican has a good job in Mexico , they have a lot less reason to try to come to America and work for almost no pay because any job that pays anything decent wont take the risk of hiring people without proper paperwork )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of using crap like this to stop illegals, do this instead:1.Do whatever is necessary to ensure legal American workers can get (and will try to get) the jobs that illegals are currently taking.
Tie this work to unemployment benefits (i.e.
if you are currently out of work and receiving any kind of government unemployment benefits you have to take these jobs.
Possibly the government over there could do what the government here in Australia did and introduce "work for the dole" (which is where you work at the jobs like fruit picking that would otherwise be taken by illegals in the American system but instead of being paid by the employer out of their pockets, the government pays what they would have paid you in unemployment/dole payments)2.Encourage American companies to build factories and other things in Central America where the illegals come from (if a Mexican has a good job in Mexico, they have a lot less reason to try to come to America and work for almost no pay because any job that pays anything decent wont take the risk of hiring people without proper paperwork)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413380</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers. As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.</p><p>I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.</p><p>I bet it's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess.</p></div><p>BZZZT! Wrong, thanks for playing!</p><p>Um, which part of the 2nd Amendment authorizes ANY government to pass ANY law restricting ANY citizen from "carrying" (bearing) arms, concealed or not?</p><p>You've been brainwashed so badly, that you actually think that GOVERNMENT "allows" us to "legally" carry a weapon. Instead, the 2nd Amendment RESTRICTS Government from PREVENTING us from carrying a weapon ("concealed" or not).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers .
As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it , I 'm not going to lose much sleep over it.I have to wonder , though , how many people who are going " oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack " would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.I bet it 's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess.BZZZT !
Wrong , thanks for playing ! Um , which part of the 2nd Amendment authorizes ANY government to pass ANY law restricting ANY citizen from " carrying " ( bearing ) arms , concealed or not ? You 've been brainwashed so badly , that you actually think that GOVERNMENT " allows " us to " legally " carry a weapon .
Instead , the 2nd Amendment RESTRICTS Government from PREVENTING us from carrying a weapon ( " concealed " or not ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This at least makes sense considering how much harm illegal immigration does to American blue collar workers.
As long as I can go out in public without it and buy goods without it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.I bet it's A LOT more than most slashdotters would guess.BZZZT!
Wrong, thanks for playing!Um, which part of the 2nd Amendment authorizes ANY government to pass ANY law restricting ANY citizen from "carrying" (bearing) arms, concealed or not?You've been brainwashed so badly, that you actually think that GOVERNMENT "allows" us to "legally" carry a weapon.
Instead, the 2nd Amendment RESTRICTS Government from PREVENTING us from carrying a weapon ("concealed" or not).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416156</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268159640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're wrong.  I saw this in France in the 90s, jobs dried up and the French suddenly wanted the low paying jobs that the folks from Northern Africa had immigrated for and had been working.  People won't stay in those jobs if something better comes along, that's true for nearly anyone, but the mythic refusal of Americans to do certain jobs is BS.  They might demand actual minimum wage to do them, or even a buck more if the job really sucks (and berry picking does suck), but they will do them.</p><p>If you maintain Americans refuse those jobs, then show some data, as far as I know, no credible data has ever existed.</p><p>Also, in the Pacific North West illegals do often take high paying construction jobs, the ones that pay 15-22 bucks an hour plus overtime, so it's not all about toilette scrubbing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're wrong .
I saw this in France in the 90s , jobs dried up and the French suddenly wanted the low paying jobs that the folks from Northern Africa had immigrated for and had been working .
People wo n't stay in those jobs if something better comes along , that 's true for nearly anyone , but the mythic refusal of Americans to do certain jobs is BS .
They might demand actual minimum wage to do them , or even a buck more if the job really sucks ( and berry picking does suck ) , but they will do them.If you maintain Americans refuse those jobs , then show some data , as far as I know , no credible data has ever existed.Also , in the Pacific North West illegals do often take high paying construction jobs , the ones that pay 15-22 bucks an hour plus overtime , so it 's not all about toilette scrubbing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're wrong.
I saw this in France in the 90s, jobs dried up and the French suddenly wanted the low paying jobs that the folks from Northern Africa had immigrated for and had been working.
People won't stay in those jobs if something better comes along, that's true for nearly anyone, but the mythic refusal of Americans to do certain jobs is BS.
They might demand actual minimum wage to do them, or even a buck more if the job really sucks (and berry picking does suck), but they will do them.If you maintain Americans refuse those jobs, then show some data, as far as I know, no credible data has ever existed.Also, in the Pacific North West illegals do often take high paying construction jobs, the ones that pay 15-22 bucks an hour plus overtime, so it's not all about toilette scrubbing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412932</id>
	<title>hate to point this out</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meet the new boss (administration), same as the old boss</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meet the new boss ( administration ) , same as the old boss</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meet the new boss (administration), same as the old boss</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416506</id>
	<title>Re:national ID</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1268161080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This is a National ID card. Call it what it is and be done with it, don't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill.</i></p><p>Several states already have laws on their books preventing their executive branches from servicing a National ID card.  A few years ago they called it "REAL ID".</p><p>e.g. <a href="http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2007/hb0685.html" title="state.nh.us">New Hampshire</a> [state.nh.us].  Folks interested in these issues ought to <a href="http://freestateproject.org/" title="freestateproject.org">come out</a> [freestateproject.org] and lend a hand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a National ID card .
Call it what it is and be done with it , do n't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill.Several states already have laws on their books preventing their executive branches from servicing a National ID card .
A few years ago they called it " REAL ID " .e.g .
New Hampshire [ state.nh.us ] .
Folks interested in these issues ought to come out [ freestateproject.org ] and lend a hand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a National ID card.
Call it what it is and be done with it, don't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill.Several states already have laws on their books preventing their executive branches from servicing a National ID card.
A few years ago they called it "REAL ID".e.g.
New Hampshire [state.nh.us].
Folks interested in these issues ought to come out [freestateproject.org] and lend a hand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413840</id>
	<title>Re:Instead of using crap like this...</title>
	<author>tibit</author>
	<datestamp>1268151000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>American companies should be building factories and 'other things' here in the U.S. There's more than enough residents to fill those jobs. It's only due to the corporate nutjobs that we've lost national manufacturing. Those people firmly believe in manna from heaven -- namely, that if you somehow make things cheaper abroad, that you'll still have now-jobless customers with money to pay for those cheaper things. This fantasy can only work for so long. While it works, it of course generates nice 'returns' for the shareholders. But the economic buffer has been spent now. The real reason for our economical crisis is our humongous international trade deficit. That's what made banks lend to non creditworthy customers. A mere 30-40 years ago, people had jobs and could save money and afford sane mortgages. As less and less people had any real economic stability to speak of, due to loss of manufacturing jobs, they banks were losing them as creditworthy customers. But banks live on lending profits! As it is, shareholders demand churn and profits, thus banks resorted to fantasy-backed loans -- otherwise their loan portfolios would shrink alarmingly. And here we are.

And banks are still with heads in the sand, nothing has changed here. Just dig a bit and see how many foreclosed/bank owned real estate there is. Banks keep it for months or years, largely under wraps. The banks are now actually taking the free market elements out of the real estate market -- the properties are still over-valued, because the supply is somewhat constrained by the banks. If all REO properties suddenly appeared on the market, there would be a further 50\% drop in house prices. Of course it would make the housing affordable to many, but those with existing mortgages would be left upside down. Being "upside down" by itself is not a problem as long as you can stay in the same place. The workforce in the U.S. is too mobile to stay in a house for long, so they'd end up screwed even further.</htmltext>
<tokenext>American companies should be building factories and 'other things ' here in the U.S. There 's more than enough residents to fill those jobs .
It 's only due to the corporate nutjobs that we 've lost national manufacturing .
Those people firmly believe in manna from heaven -- namely , that if you somehow make things cheaper abroad , that you 'll still have now-jobless customers with money to pay for those cheaper things .
This fantasy can only work for so long .
While it works , it of course generates nice 'returns ' for the shareholders .
But the economic buffer has been spent now .
The real reason for our economical crisis is our humongous international trade deficit .
That 's what made banks lend to non creditworthy customers .
A mere 30-40 years ago , people had jobs and could save money and afford sane mortgages .
As less and less people had any real economic stability to speak of , due to loss of manufacturing jobs , they banks were losing them as creditworthy customers .
But banks live on lending profits !
As it is , shareholders demand churn and profits , thus banks resorted to fantasy-backed loans -- otherwise their loan portfolios would shrink alarmingly .
And here we are .
And banks are still with heads in the sand , nothing has changed here .
Just dig a bit and see how many foreclosed/bank owned real estate there is .
Banks keep it for months or years , largely under wraps .
The banks are now actually taking the free market elements out of the real estate market -- the properties are still over-valued , because the supply is somewhat constrained by the banks .
If all REO properties suddenly appeared on the market , there would be a further 50 \ % drop in house prices .
Of course it would make the housing affordable to many , but those with existing mortgages would be left upside down .
Being " upside down " by itself is not a problem as long as you can stay in the same place .
The workforce in the U.S. is too mobile to stay in a house for long , so they 'd end up screwed even further .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>American companies should be building factories and 'other things' here in the U.S. There's more than enough residents to fill those jobs.
It's only due to the corporate nutjobs that we've lost national manufacturing.
Those people firmly believe in manna from heaven -- namely, that if you somehow make things cheaper abroad, that you'll still have now-jobless customers with money to pay for those cheaper things.
This fantasy can only work for so long.
While it works, it of course generates nice 'returns' for the shareholders.
But the economic buffer has been spent now.
The real reason for our economical crisis is our humongous international trade deficit.
That's what made banks lend to non creditworthy customers.
A mere 30-40 years ago, people had jobs and could save money and afford sane mortgages.
As less and less people had any real economic stability to speak of, due to loss of manufacturing jobs, they banks were losing them as creditworthy customers.
But banks live on lending profits!
As it is, shareholders demand churn and profits, thus banks resorted to fantasy-backed loans -- otherwise their loan portfolios would shrink alarmingly.
And here we are.
And banks are still with heads in the sand, nothing has changed here.
Just dig a bit and see how many foreclosed/bank owned real estate there is.
Banks keep it for months or years, largely under wraps.
The banks are now actually taking the free market elements out of the real estate market -- the properties are still over-valued, because the supply is somewhat constrained by the banks.
If all REO properties suddenly appeared on the market, there would be a further 50\% drop in house prices.
Of course it would make the housing affordable to many, but those with existing mortgages would be left upside down.
Being "upside down" by itself is not a problem as long as you can stay in the same place.
The workforce in the U.S. is too mobile to stay in a house for long, so they'd end up screwed even further.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414030</id>
	<title>Right to work?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268151780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A similar issue came up, in my mind anyways, a year or two ago with another bill. The bill would have required that all employers use the national Employee Eligibility Verification System (the name was something like that), and it was immediately obvious that such a requirement could result in errors or be abused to prevent American citizens from getting jobs. The EEVS already exists and is voluntarily used by employers, so there's history. There's no signs of abuse, but errors have happened.</p><p>So the question I wondered about is, "Do we have a right to work?" It certainly seems we do, if not explicitly, then by things such as free association and the statement of all people having the right to "the pursuit of happiness", a.k.a. the pursuit of property.</p><p>Is there a lawyer in the house? Have there been cases that inform or set precedent on the concept of a right to work?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A similar issue came up , in my mind anyways , a year or two ago with another bill .
The bill would have required that all employers use the national Employee Eligibility Verification System ( the name was something like that ) , and it was immediately obvious that such a requirement could result in errors or be abused to prevent American citizens from getting jobs .
The EEVS already exists and is voluntarily used by employers , so there 's history .
There 's no signs of abuse , but errors have happened.So the question I wondered about is , " Do we have a right to work ?
" It certainly seems we do , if not explicitly , then by things such as free association and the statement of all people having the right to " the pursuit of happiness " , a.k.a .
the pursuit of property.Is there a lawyer in the house ?
Have there been cases that inform or set precedent on the concept of a right to work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A similar issue came up, in my mind anyways, a year or two ago with another bill.
The bill would have required that all employers use the national Employee Eligibility Verification System (the name was something like that), and it was immediately obvious that such a requirement could result in errors or be abused to prevent American citizens from getting jobs.
The EEVS already exists and is voluntarily used by employers, so there's history.
There's no signs of abuse, but errors have happened.So the question I wondered about is, "Do we have a right to work?
" It certainly seems we do, if not explicitly, then by things such as free association and the statement of all people having the right to "the pursuit of happiness", a.k.a.
the pursuit of property.Is there a lawyer in the house?
Have there been cases that inform or set precedent on the concept of a right to work?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413586</id>
	<title>DaveGillam</title>
	<author>DaveGillam</author>
	<datestamp>1268149860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bypassing all the arguments for and against this plan, I notice an interesting detail in the article.  It applies to employers and employees (form W2) only.  It apparently does not apply to business owners or freelancers (form 1099).  So all the independent people (lawnkeepers, housekeepers, pool cleaners, handymen, freelancing programmers, etc) won't be affected by this either way, at least at first.  They'd have to expand it to apply to everyone asking for any kind of service (hospitals, unemployment, banks, groceries) to have it affect 100\% of the population.  So if you want to avoid this card as long as possible, just start your own service business, or convince your employer to convert you to a form 1099 contractor, instead of a form W2 employee.  You'll have to work out the pay scale to afford your vacations, insurance, and other perks, but that's workable.  Also, if a lot of people become their own bosses, they technically always will have a job (their own business), so the unemployment lines would diminish.  Theoretically.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bypassing all the arguments for and against this plan , I notice an interesting detail in the article .
It applies to employers and employees ( form W2 ) only .
It apparently does not apply to business owners or freelancers ( form 1099 ) .
So all the independent people ( lawnkeepers , housekeepers , pool cleaners , handymen , freelancing programmers , etc ) wo n't be affected by this either way , at least at first .
They 'd have to expand it to apply to everyone asking for any kind of service ( hospitals , unemployment , banks , groceries ) to have it affect 100 \ % of the population .
So if you want to avoid this card as long as possible , just start your own service business , or convince your employer to convert you to a form 1099 contractor , instead of a form W2 employee .
You 'll have to work out the pay scale to afford your vacations , insurance , and other perks , but that 's workable .
Also , if a lot of people become their own bosses , they technically always will have a job ( their own business ) , so the unemployment lines would diminish .
Theoretically. ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bypassing all the arguments for and against this plan, I notice an interesting detail in the article.
It applies to employers and employees (form W2) only.
It apparently does not apply to business owners or freelancers (form 1099).
So all the independent people (lawnkeepers, housekeepers, pool cleaners, handymen, freelancing programmers, etc) won't be affected by this either way, at least at first.
They'd have to expand it to apply to everyone asking for any kind of service (hospitals, unemployment, banks, groceries) to have it affect 100\% of the population.
So if you want to avoid this card as long as possible, just start your own service business, or convince your employer to convert you to a form 1099 contractor, instead of a form W2 employee.
You'll have to work out the pay scale to afford your vacations, insurance, and other perks, but that's workable.
Also, if a lot of people become their own bosses, they technically always will have a job (their own business), so the unemployment lines would diminish.
Theoretically. ;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413572</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>vxice</author>
	<datestamp>1268149740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Biometrics are much more secure than your average card.  Really what do you need to get a drivers license?  A birth certificate and proof of residency, magazine subscription and cable bill, which are all easily forged especially given any more time than a week.  Now with biometrics there is a lot of research into aliveness detection, you can't simply put a disconnected finger onto the scanner but who would want to since your future employer will hopefully be watching over the process similar affect for most other spoofs.  However this will not come cheap "Mr. Schumer said employers would be able to buy a scanner to check the IDs for as much as $800."  Now that seems a bit light for anything with the amount of security you will want for this project.  You would have to have plenty of new hires to make this worth your while especially since it will be reducing your access to cheap labor in an artificially inflated labor market, what else do you think minimum wages are and who the hell tries to raise a family on one?  Combine with that the fact that instead of being in many different databases this will all be in one which will be hard to crack but the more valuable information you have the more worthwhile it will be to someone.  Now I do like the idea of biometrics and am studying the field for my major and it is not the systems that are the problem but the people running them that cause the real threat.  So do this, stop screwing over the rest of the world and demand fair trade policies, require that if you want to import you have to observe U.S. labor standards, hold minimum wage at present levels until it means absolutely nothing allowing people to work cheap jobs if they really need the money so lower unemployment and more output since jobs that weren't worth hiring for at inflated labor prices now become economical and suddenly there is less reason to import except where there is real competitive advantage and wages will go up relatively world wide along with productivity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Biometrics are much more secure than your average card .
Really what do you need to get a drivers license ?
A birth certificate and proof of residency , magazine subscription and cable bill , which are all easily forged especially given any more time than a week .
Now with biometrics there is a lot of research into aliveness detection , you ca n't simply put a disconnected finger onto the scanner but who would want to since your future employer will hopefully be watching over the process similar affect for most other spoofs .
However this will not come cheap " Mr. Schumer said employers would be able to buy a scanner to check the IDs for as much as $ 800 .
" Now that seems a bit light for anything with the amount of security you will want for this project .
You would have to have plenty of new hires to make this worth your while especially since it will be reducing your access to cheap labor in an artificially inflated labor market , what else do you think minimum wages are and who the hell tries to raise a family on one ?
Combine with that the fact that instead of being in many different databases this will all be in one which will be hard to crack but the more valuable information you have the more worthwhile it will be to someone .
Now I do like the idea of biometrics and am studying the field for my major and it is not the systems that are the problem but the people running them that cause the real threat .
So do this , stop screwing over the rest of the world and demand fair trade policies , require that if you want to import you have to observe U.S. labor standards , hold minimum wage at present levels until it means absolutely nothing allowing people to work cheap jobs if they really need the money so lower unemployment and more output since jobs that were n't worth hiring for at inflated labor prices now become economical and suddenly there is less reason to import except where there is real competitive advantage and wages will go up relatively world wide along with productivity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biometrics are much more secure than your average card.
Really what do you need to get a drivers license?
A birth certificate and proof of residency, magazine subscription and cable bill, which are all easily forged especially given any more time than a week.
Now with biometrics there is a lot of research into aliveness detection, you can't simply put a disconnected finger onto the scanner but who would want to since your future employer will hopefully be watching over the process similar affect for most other spoofs.
However this will not come cheap "Mr. Schumer said employers would be able to buy a scanner to check the IDs for as much as $800.
"  Now that seems a bit light for anything with the amount of security you will want for this project.
You would have to have plenty of new hires to make this worth your while especially since it will be reducing your access to cheap labor in an artificially inflated labor market, what else do you think minimum wages are and who the hell tries to raise a family on one?
Combine with that the fact that instead of being in many different databases this will all be in one which will be hard to crack but the more valuable information you have the more worthwhile it will be to someone.
Now I do like the idea of biometrics and am studying the field for my major and it is not the systems that are the problem but the people running them that cause the real threat.
So do this, stop screwing over the rest of the world and demand fair trade policies, require that if you want to import you have to observe U.S. labor standards, hold minimum wage at present levels until it means absolutely nothing allowing people to work cheap jobs if they really need the money so lower unemployment and more output since jobs that weren't worth hiring for at inflated labor prices now become economical and suddenly there is less reason to import except where there is real competitive advantage and wages will go up relatively world wide along with productivity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413092</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>Ornlu</author>
	<datestamp>1268147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The ACLU's already been campaigning against it for years: <a href="http://www.aclu.org/pizza/" title="aclu.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.aclu.org/pizza/</a> [aclu.org]

Yes, the potential privacy violations are astounding.  Yes, a national ID is a terrible idea.  Yes, it's unconstitutional.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The ACLU 's already been campaigning against it for years : http : //www.aclu.org/pizza/ [ aclu.org ] Yes , the potential privacy violations are astounding .
Yes , a national ID is a terrible idea .
Yes , it 's unconstitutional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ACLU's already been campaigning against it for years: http://www.aclu.org/pizza/ [aclu.org]

Yes, the potential privacy violations are astounding.
Yes, a national ID is a terrible idea.
Yes, it's unconstitutional.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413956</id>
	<title>TWIC?</title>
	<author>geethree</author>
	<datestamp>1268151480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't we already have a version of this with the "Transportation Worker Identification Credential" (TWIC)?<br>http://www.tsa.gov/what\_we\_do/layers/twic/index.shtm</p><p>It has everything this ID card asks for, including the fingerprints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't we already have a version of this with the " Transportation Worker Identification Credential " ( TWIC ) ? http : //www.tsa.gov/what \ _we \ _do/layers/twic/index.shtmIt has everything this ID card asks for , including the fingerprints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't we already have a version of this with the "Transportation Worker Identification Credential" (TWIC)?http://www.tsa.gov/what\_we\_do/layers/twic/index.shtmIt has everything this ID card asks for, including the fingerprints.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413278</id>
	<title>Only One Problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The potential for good like scanning my card at any doctor's office or hospital and thus being done with my check in, or scanning my card at the DMV and thus being done with my check in or... will never happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The potential for good like scanning my card at any doctor 's office or hospital and thus being done with my check in , or scanning my card at the DMV and thus being done with my check in or... will never happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The potential for good like scanning my card at any doctor's office or hospital and thus being done with my check in, or scanning my card at the DMV and thus being done with my check in or... will never happen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414078</id>
	<title>Innocent until proven guilty, I think</title>
	<author>boyfaceddog</author>
	<datestamp>1268151960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Correct me if I'm wrong but there is some, oh let's call them "constitutional" issues with this.
First, entering the country illegally is a "crime".
Second, hiring someone who has entered the country illegally is also a "crime".
Third, being a citizen of the U.S.A. is not (so far) a crime and neither is looking for work.
So if the Feds want me to PROVE I'M INNOCENT OF A CRIME in order to get a job, that would be a violation of my constitutional rights.

Won't Be Done.

Nothing to see here. Move along, citizen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Correct me if I 'm wrong but there is some , oh let 's call them " constitutional " issues with this .
First , entering the country illegally is a " crime " .
Second , hiring someone who has entered the country illegally is also a " crime " .
Third , being a citizen of the U.S.A. is not ( so far ) a crime and neither is looking for work .
So if the Feds want me to PROVE I 'M INNOCENT OF A CRIME in order to get a job , that would be a violation of my constitutional rights .
Wo n't Be Done .
Nothing to see here .
Move along , citizen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Correct me if I'm wrong but there is some, oh let's call them "constitutional" issues with this.
First, entering the country illegally is a "crime".
Second, hiring someone who has entered the country illegally is also a "crime".
Third, being a citizen of the U.S.A. is not (so far) a crime and neither is looking for work.
So if the Feds want me to PROVE I'M INNOCENT OF A CRIME in order to get a job, that would be a violation of my constitutional rights.
Won't Be Done.
Nothing to see here.
Move along, citizen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414650</id>
	<title>Re:The Plans...</title>
	<author>tibit</author>
	<datestamp>1268154180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm, if you want to change immigration laws to allow aliens to work in the U.S.A. without restrictions, talk to your rep/senator about.
It's an issue that's wholly separate from the biometric ID. You can be for alien/immigrant workers and for biometric ID. Those
are not mutually exclusive. Right now such ID would be used to enforce immigration/employment laws. Change the latter, and the ID
still can stay.

BTW, see how far you'll go in chatting with your rep/senator about allowing unrestricted alien labor. LOL.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , if you want to change immigration laws to allow aliens to work in the U.S.A. without restrictions , talk to your rep/senator about .
It 's an issue that 's wholly separate from the biometric ID .
You can be for alien/immigrant workers and for biometric ID .
Those are not mutually exclusive .
Right now such ID would be used to enforce immigration/employment laws .
Change the latter , and the ID still can stay .
BTW , see how far you 'll go in chatting with your rep/senator about allowing unrestricted alien labor .
LOL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, if you want to change immigration laws to allow aliens to work in the U.S.A. without restrictions, talk to your rep/senator about.
It's an issue that's wholly separate from the biometric ID.
You can be for alien/immigrant workers and for biometric ID.
Those
are not mutually exclusive.
Right now such ID would be used to enforce immigration/employment laws.
Change the latter, and the ID
still can stay.
BTW, see how far you'll go in chatting with your rep/senator about allowing unrestricted alien labor.
LOL.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416674</id>
	<title>Re:Papers please!</title>
	<author>grahamd0</author>
	<datestamp>1268161980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Remember kids, privacy != freedom</p></div><p>Yes, however !privacy == !freedom</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember kids , privacy ! = freedomYes , however ! privacy = = ! freedom</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember kids, privacy != freedomYes, however !privacy == !freedom
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415820</id>
	<title>Congress First</title>
	<author>pu'u\_bear</author>
	<datestamp>1268158380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would be much more, okay, slightly less paranoid about things like this with one change.  Any legislation like this applies to the members of government FIRST.  You want a single biometric ID for all workers, after you, Senator.  Don't think we need warrants for wiretaps, fine, we will just install this nice little device on all your phones, and the transcripts can go straight to wikileaks.  Have a problem with "government run health care"?  Fine, we will just take away your health plan (it's government run after all).  Good luck finding insurance now, Mr. Old White guy with a bad heart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would be much more , okay , slightly less paranoid about things like this with one change .
Any legislation like this applies to the members of government FIRST .
You want a single biometric ID for all workers , after you , Senator .
Do n't think we need warrants for wiretaps , fine , we will just install this nice little device on all your phones , and the transcripts can go straight to wikileaks .
Have a problem with " government run health care " ?
Fine , we will just take away your health plan ( it 's government run after all ) .
Good luck finding insurance now , Mr. Old White guy with a bad heart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would be much more, okay, slightly less paranoid about things like this with one change.
Any legislation like this applies to the members of government FIRST.
You want a single biometric ID for all workers, after you, Senator.
Don't think we need warrants for wiretaps, fine, we will just install this nice little device on all your phones, and the transcripts can go straight to wikileaks.
Have a problem with "government run health care"?
Fine, we will just take away your health plan (it's government run after all).
Good luck finding insurance now, Mr. Old White guy with a bad heart.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413192</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Zumbs</author>
	<datestamp>1268148120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A drivers licence is a permit to drive a car. So, if you want to drive a car, you should be able to produce your permit when asked. If you walk out the door, and go on a stroll, there should be no reason to be able to produce a drivers licence. The issue here is that you need a card holding a large quantity of very private information on you, just to take a job. Furthermore, this information will have to be gathered into a big database, which suggests that it could be misused by whatever authorities can gain access to it. And once the database is there, the authorities will try to get access to it, with or without a warrent. Not to mention future employers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A drivers licence is a permit to drive a car .
So , if you want to drive a car , you should be able to produce your permit when asked .
If you walk out the door , and go on a stroll , there should be no reason to be able to produce a drivers licence .
The issue here is that you need a card holding a large quantity of very private information on you , just to take a job .
Furthermore , this information will have to be gathered into a big database , which suggests that it could be misused by whatever authorities can gain access to it .
And once the database is there , the authorities will try to get access to it , with or without a warrent .
Not to mention future employers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A drivers licence is a permit to drive a car.
So, if you want to drive a car, you should be able to produce your permit when asked.
If you walk out the door, and go on a stroll, there should be no reason to be able to produce a drivers licence.
The issue here is that you need a card holding a large quantity of very private information on you, just to take a job.
Furthermore, this information will have to be gathered into a big database, which suggests that it could be misused by whatever authorities can gain access to it.
And once the database is there, the authorities will try to get access to it, with or without a warrent.
Not to mention future employers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418700</id>
	<title>Re:Meh</title>
	<author>Mr. Slippery</author>
	<datestamp>1268127420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required' for employment</p></div></blockquote><p>No, it's not. A Social Security card is one of several documents that can be presented to prove work eligibility. <a href="http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf" title="uscis.gov" rel="nofollow">A passport, a birth certificate, or several other documents</a> [uscis.gov] can used with the I-9 form.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required ' for employmentNo , it 's not .
A Social Security card is one of several documents that can be presented to prove work eligibility .
A passport , a birth certificate , or several other documents [ uscis.gov ] can used with the I-9 form .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required' for employmentNo, it's not.
A Social Security card is one of several documents that can be presented to prove work eligibility.
A passport, a birth certificate, or several other documents [uscis.gov] can used with the I-9 form.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413284</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>Ogive17</author>
	<datestamp>1268148540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it's because this is perceived as the "next step" in data mining about the nation's citizens.  Sure they know your name, SSN, age and address now.  Soon they'll have all fingerprints on file and possibly other biometric data.  Why do they need it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's because this is perceived as the " next step " in data mining about the nation 's citizens .
Sure they know your name , SSN , age and address now .
Soon they 'll have all fingerprints on file and possibly other biometric data .
Why do they need it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's because this is perceived as the "next step" in data mining about the nation's citizens.
Sure they know your name, SSN, age and address now.
Soon they'll have all fingerprints on file and possibly other biometric data.
Why do they need it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880</id>
	<title>national ID</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1268146920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a National ID card.  Call it what it is and be done with it, don't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a National ID card .
Call it what it is and be done with it , do n't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a National ID card.
Call it what it is and be done with it, don't try to hide it as part of an immigration bill.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416602</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1268161680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That just means they would have to start paying what the work is worth to an American. It's not that Americans won't scrub toilets, it's just that they won't scrub toilets on the second shift for minimum wage and zero benefits. It's not that Americans won't pick fruit, they just won't do it for 10 hours a day while living in a shanty for minimum wage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That just means they would have to start paying what the work is worth to an American .
It 's not that Americans wo n't scrub toilets , it 's just that they wo n't scrub toilets on the second shift for minimum wage and zero benefits .
It 's not that Americans wo n't pick fruit , they just wo n't do it for 10 hours a day while living in a shanty for minimum wage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That just means they would have to start paying what the work is worth to an American.
It's not that Americans won't scrub toilets, it's just that they won't scrub toilets on the second shift for minimum wage and zero benefits.
It's not that Americans won't pick fruit, they just won't do it for 10 hours a day while living in a shanty for minimum wage.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904</id>
	<title>Tie this in to drivers license, and passport</title>
	<author>furby076</author>
	<datestamp>1268146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Make it so this card also has my drivers license, and passport (I assume it already has my social security since it's for work) and I am all for it.  I am tired of having to to worry which ID i need to have on me.  Drivers license (all the time), then passport when I fly (god help me if I forget this one), and now this?<br> <br>

Gov't - stop making life cumbersome.  With technology we can get everything we want, on a drivers license sized ID card.  It shouldn't be that hard.<br> <br>

Oh - and don't forget the most important thing...the persons picture.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Make it so this card also has my drivers license , and passport ( I assume it already has my social security since it 's for work ) and I am all for it .
I am tired of having to to worry which ID i need to have on me .
Drivers license ( all the time ) , then passport when I fly ( god help me if I forget this one ) , and now this ?
Gov't - stop making life cumbersome .
With technology we can get everything we want , on a drivers license sized ID card .
It should n't be that hard .
Oh - and do n't forget the most important thing...the persons picture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make it so this card also has my drivers license, and passport (I assume it already has my social security since it's for work) and I am all for it.
I am tired of having to to worry which ID i need to have on me.
Drivers license (all the time), then passport when I fly (god help me if I forget this one), and now this?
Gov't - stop making life cumbersome.
With technology we can get everything we want, on a drivers license sized ID card.
It shouldn't be that hard.
Oh - and don't forget the most important thing...the persons picture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413558</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>macs4all</author>
	<datestamp>1268149680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>why do they talk about fascism, "papers please" and destruction of privacy and freedom?</p></div><p>Because "they", unlike you, have actually READ the history of other nations.
<br> <br>
First they came for the Communists... [isurvived.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>why do they talk about fascism , " papers please " and destruction of privacy and freedom ? Because " they " , unlike you , have actually READ the history of other nations .
First they came for the Communists... [ isurvived.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why do they talk about fascism, "papers please" and destruction of privacy and freedom?Because "they", unlike you, have actually READ the history of other nations.
First they came for the Communists... [isurvived.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31419176</id>
	<title>OK with the concept, but ..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268129460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.. there should be no central biometrics database.  If they can encode your bio data on the card, and then slam a PIN code over it to stop unauthorised access, or just store a serial number and a hash in a central DB (to check for forgeries) that would be far better.  No risk of insider threat or "accidental" use (that's the political version of blatant abuse), no guilty before proven innocent crap - just an improvement on ID, provided the issue process is worth something.</p><p>Oh, and where possible no RFID (or at least with shielding).  I'd much rather have a 3D barcode behind IR transparent plastic - the readers are cheaper too - but I'm not sure if that can hold enough data.</p><p>If you need an example of how NOT to do it, look at the UK..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. there should be no central biometrics database .
If they can encode your bio data on the card , and then slam a PIN code over it to stop unauthorised access , or just store a serial number and a hash in a central DB ( to check for forgeries ) that would be far better .
No risk of insider threat or " accidental " use ( that 's the political version of blatant abuse ) , no guilty before proven innocent crap - just an improvement on ID , provided the issue process is worth something.Oh , and where possible no RFID ( or at least with shielding ) .
I 'd much rather have a 3D barcode behind IR transparent plastic - the readers are cheaper too - but I 'm not sure if that can hold enough data.If you need an example of how NOT to do it , look at the UK. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. there should be no central biometrics database.
If they can encode your bio data on the card, and then slam a PIN code over it to stop unauthorised access, or just store a serial number and a hash in a central DB (to check for forgeries) that would be far better.
No risk of insider threat or "accidental" use (that's the political version of blatant abuse), no guilty before proven innocent crap - just an improvement on ID, provided the issue process is worth something.Oh, and where possible no RFID (or at least with shielding).
I'd much rather have a 3D barcode behind IR transparent plastic - the readers are cheaper too - but I'm not sure if that can hold enough data.If you need an example of how NOT to do it, look at the UK..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414718</id>
	<title>I have one of these..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268154420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a national ID... it is called a passport and I show it to my employer when starting a new job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a national ID... it is called a passport and I show it to my employer when starting a new job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a national ID... it is called a passport and I show it to my employer when starting a new job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417096</id>
	<title>GATTACA on-a-card</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268163900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And don't worry about welcoming your new corporate overlords. It's already been done (free corporate electoral spending, food-libel laws, corporations as individuals... etc.)</p><p>So, stop wasting their time - and get back to work (or back into the alley) !</p><p>The powers-that-be wish you a sensible day.</p><p>Thank you.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:&gt;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And do n't worry about welcoming your new corporate overlords .
It 's already been done ( free corporate electoral spending , food-libel laws , corporations as individuals.. .
etc. ) So , stop wasting their time - and get back to work ( or back into the alley ) ! The powers-that-be wish you a sensible day.Thank you .
: &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And don't worry about welcoming your new corporate overlords.
It's already been done (free corporate electoral spending, food-libel laws, corporations as individuals...
etc.)So, stop wasting their time - and get back to work (or back into the alley) !The powers-that-be wish you a sensible day.Thank you.
:&gt;</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890</id>
	<title>Meh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268146920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who wants to bet that employers will just have a paper form to check off that they looked at your card rendering all the bio stuff useless?<br> <br>

The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required' for employment, although I lost mine when I was a kid and have never shown it to any of my employers.  <br> <br>I tell them I forgot it and they never ask again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who wants to bet that employers will just have a paper form to check off that they looked at your card rendering all the bio stuff useless ?
The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required ' for employment , although I lost mine when I was a kid and have never shown it to any of my employers .
I tell them I forgot it and they never ask again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who wants to bet that employers will just have a paper form to check off that they looked at your card rendering all the bio stuff useless?
The only reason I mention that is because a social security card is also 'required' for employment, although I lost mine when I was a kid and have never shown it to any of my employers.
I tell them I forgot it and they never ask again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</id>
	<title>For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For those of you who are going to draw analogies to Soviet Russia, etc. and complain that this somehow violates our rights and so on: just think of all the "papers" we ALREADY have to carry in this country. A lot of fuss was made in anti-Soviet propoganda about the papers the Russians had to carry around, but try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc. I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept "But this is a free country!" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.</p><p>There are privacy concerns here, but not civil liberties ones (well, no more than are raised by all the other "papers").</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For those of you who are going to draw analogies to Soviet Russia , etc .
and complain that this somehow violates our rights and so on : just think of all the " papers " we ALREADY have to carry in this country .
A lot of fuss was made in anti-Soviet propoganda about the papers the Russians had to carry around , but try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver 's license , car registration , proof of insurance , etc .
I 'm pretty sure the cops are n't going to accept " But this is a free country !
" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.There are privacy concerns here , but not civil liberties ones ( well , no more than are raised by all the other " papers " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those of you who are going to draw analogies to Soviet Russia, etc.
and complain that this somehow violates our rights and so on: just think of all the "papers" we ALREADY have to carry in this country.
A lot of fuss was made in anti-Soviet propoganda about the papers the Russians had to carry around, but try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc.
I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept "But this is a free country!
" in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.There are privacy concerns here, but not civil liberties ones (well, no more than are raised by all the other "papers").</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416530</id>
	<title>Re:Instead of using crap like this...</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1268161200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before item 2 can work, you'll have to force all U.S. outsourcing to apply U.S. standards for labor practices and pay rates to foreign factories. Otherwise, potential illegals still get 10 times more pay and better working conditions by crossing the border.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before item 2 can work , you 'll have to force all U.S. outsourcing to apply U.S. standards for labor practices and pay rates to foreign factories .
Otherwise , potential illegals still get 10 times more pay and better working conditions by crossing the border .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before item 2 can work, you'll have to force all U.S. outsourcing to apply U.S. standards for labor practices and pay rates to foreign factories.
Otherwise, potential illegals still get 10 times more pay and better working conditions by crossing the border.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414000</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>zzsmirkzz</author>
	<datestamp>1268151660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>scrubbing toilets for low wages</p></div><p>
Nice argument you got there, got any data to back it up? How about separating ideas for a starter. The problem with your argument is that they are not just offering jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, they are offering them jobs that illegal immigrants are doing for the <i>same pay</i> the illegal immigrants are willing to work for. This typically is at or below minimum wage (with a trade-off of 0 taxes). The problem with this is that illegal immigrants don't have bargaining power to negotiate better wages (because they are illegal), so they race each other to the bottom. This artificially reduces the value of these positions to the point where no legal worker would feel that the pay is fair for the work and they refuse the job. Not because they don't want to do the work but because the pay is too low. It's like asking a Sr Level Programmer to work for $8/hr and arguing that Americans don't want the job when they say no.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>scrubbing toilets for low wages Nice argument you got there , got any data to back it up ?
How about separating ideas for a starter .
The problem with your argument is that they are not just offering jobs that illegal immigrants are doing , they are offering them jobs that illegal immigrants are doing for the same pay the illegal immigrants are willing to work for .
This typically is at or below minimum wage ( with a trade-off of 0 taxes ) .
The problem with this is that illegal immigrants do n't have bargaining power to negotiate better wages ( because they are illegal ) , so they race each other to the bottom .
This artificially reduces the value of these positions to the point where no legal worker would feel that the pay is fair for the work and they refuse the job .
Not because they do n't want to do the work but because the pay is too low .
It 's like asking a Sr Level Programmer to work for $ 8/hr and arguing that Americans do n't want the job when they say no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>scrubbing toilets for low wages
Nice argument you got there, got any data to back it up?
How about separating ideas for a starter.
The problem with your argument is that they are not just offering jobs that illegal immigrants are doing, they are offering them jobs that illegal immigrants are doing for the same pay the illegal immigrants are willing to work for.
This typically is at or below minimum wage (with a trade-off of 0 taxes).
The problem with this is that illegal immigrants don't have bargaining power to negotiate better wages (because they are illegal), so they race each other to the bottom.
This artificially reduces the value of these positions to the point where no legal worker would feel that the pay is fair for the work and they refuse the job.
Not because they don't want to do the work but because the pay is too low.
It's like asking a Sr Level Programmer to work for $8/hr and arguing that Americans don't want the job when they say no.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414530</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268153760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If an officer of the law requires you to show ID and you don't have any, you go to jail.</p><p>It is the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If an officer of the law requires you to show ID and you do n't have any , you go to jail.It is the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If an officer of the law requires you to show ID and you don't have any, you go to jail.It is the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413462</id>
	<title>Re:national ID</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268149260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems so.
<br> <br>
Then again, I fail to see the problem with it. Most countries have a national id card... what's so terrible about it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems so .
Then again , I fail to see the problem with it .
Most countries have a national id card... what 's so terrible about it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems so.
Then again, I fail to see the problem with it.
Most countries have a national id card... what's so terrible about it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416636</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>icebrain</author>
	<datestamp>1268161860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.</p></div><p>Go ask residents of Alaska or Vermont.  Anyone legal to purchase and own a firearm can carry it, open or concealed, without any kind of license.  I'd hardly say there's outrage about it in those states.</p><p>And really, it's <i>open</i> carry that tends to freak people out.  It's legal in 47 of 50 states to carry concealed (the process varies by state), but only around half of them allow open carry (of which some allow open carry unlicensed, others require the license for open or concealed).  There's only one state that allows open carry only.  There was strong implication in <i>Heller</i> that carrying arms was covered under the 2nd, and mention was made that concealed carry could be prohibited because it was thought repugnant in the past and often prohibited.  But, given that the recent trend is overwhemlingly towards <i>concealed</i> carry, both legally and in practice, I expect that a future ruling would say states must allow some form of carry, it must be shall-issue (ie, not at the arbitrary whim of an official), and can't prohibit concealed carry if they do not allow open.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to wonder , though , how many people who are going " oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack " would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.Go ask residents of Alaska or Vermont .
Anyone legal to purchase and own a firearm can carry it , open or concealed , without any kind of license .
I 'd hardly say there 's outrage about it in those states.And really , it 's open carry that tends to freak people out .
It 's legal in 47 of 50 states to carry concealed ( the process varies by state ) , but only around half of them allow open carry ( of which some allow open carry unlicensed , others require the license for open or concealed ) .
There 's only one state that allows open carry only .
There was strong implication in Heller that carrying arms was covered under the 2nd , and mention was made that concealed carry could be prohibited because it was thought repugnant in the past and often prohibited .
But , given that the recent trend is overwhemlingly towards concealed carry , both legally and in practice , I expect that a future ruling would say states must allow some form of carry , it must be shall-issue ( ie , not at the arbitrary whim of an official ) , and ca n't prohibit concealed carry if they do not allow open .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to wonder, though, how many people who are going "oh noes... mah freedum iz under attack" would get upset if a state government suddenly abolished its concealed carry license laws and declared that any adult who can legally carry a weapon is entitled to concealed carry.Go ask residents of Alaska or Vermont.
Anyone legal to purchase and own a firearm can carry it, open or concealed, without any kind of license.
I'd hardly say there's outrage about it in those states.And really, it's open carry that tends to freak people out.
It's legal in 47 of 50 states to carry concealed (the process varies by state), but only around half of them allow open carry (of which some allow open carry unlicensed, others require the license for open or concealed).
There's only one state that allows open carry only.
There was strong implication in Heller that carrying arms was covered under the 2nd, and mention was made that concealed carry could be prohibited because it was thought repugnant in the past and often prohibited.
But, given that the recent trend is overwhemlingly towards concealed carry, both legally and in practice, I expect that a future ruling would say states must allow some form of carry, it must be shall-issue (ie, not at the arbitrary whim of an official), and can't prohibit concealed carry if they do not allow open.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417022</id>
	<title>DRM analogy</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1268163540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Illegal immigrants will have beautifully forged cardsto use just long enough to gain entry or employ, while law-abidiing US citizens asked for their cards by the autorities (read: anyone not white) will be brutalized by a half-complete system built on the cheap and populated with error-riddled data input by ambivilent and clueless mouth-breathers with a guaranteed employment gig.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Illegal immigrants will have beautifully forged cardsto use just long enough to gain entry or employ , while law-abidiing US citizens asked for their cards by the autorities ( read : anyone not white ) will be brutalized by a half-complete system built on the cheap and populated with error-riddled data input by ambivilent and clueless mouth-breathers with a guaranteed employment gig .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Illegal immigrants will have beautifully forged cardsto use just long enough to gain entry or employ, while law-abidiing US citizens asked for their cards by the autorities (read: anyone not white) will be brutalized by a half-complete system built on the cheap and populated with error-riddled data input by ambivilent and clueless mouth-breathers with a guaranteed employment gig.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856</id>
	<title>Papers please!</title>
	<author>Pojut</author>
	<datestamp>1268146800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously though...this idea would likely work just as it is being advertised, but the privacy implications of this are astounding.  Then again, we only have the illusion of privacy at this point here in the US, so we may as well stop fooling ourselves....</p><p>Remember kids, privacy != freedom</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously though...this idea would likely work just as it is being advertised , but the privacy implications of this are astounding .
Then again , we only have the illusion of privacy at this point here in the US , so we may as well stop fooling ourselves....Remember kids , privacy ! = freedom</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously though...this idea would likely work just as it is being advertised, but the privacy implications of this are astounding.
Then again, we only have the illusion of privacy at this point here in the US, so we may as well stop fooling ourselves....Remember kids, privacy != freedom</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414884</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268155020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't you guys have the Freedom Party winning seats? You really wanna wade swinging away the anti-immigrant sentiment fray, Dutch-boy?</p><p>Explain to me exactly why US citizens are the only ones in the world who have to sit back and take the consequences of *illegal* immigration? Why are we required to have an open border, especially by commenters from the EU who live in places with their own immigration furors? It's actually a *bigger* issue in Holland.</p><p>Look at the post a bit below this that basically says "Illegal immigrants took over your industry? Go back to college, loser!" How about the companies that exploit the illegal immigrants so they can pay sub-minimum wages and not worry about all the overhead that a legal citizen requires? Why no hate for them?</p><p>It's a great thing to have a permanent underclass that can't even call the cops if someone commits a crime against them? Are are you YET ANOTHER MORON who thinks being against illegal immigration is the exact same thing as being against *ALL* immigration because you have to real arguemnts?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you guys have the Freedom Party winning seats ?
You really wan na wade swinging away the anti-immigrant sentiment fray , Dutch-boy ? Explain to me exactly why US citizens are the only ones in the world who have to sit back and take the consequences of * illegal * immigration ?
Why are we required to have an open border , especially by commenters from the EU who live in places with their own immigration furors ?
It 's actually a * bigger * issue in Holland.Look at the post a bit below this that basically says " Illegal immigrants took over your industry ?
Go back to college , loser !
" How about the companies that exploit the illegal immigrants so they can pay sub-minimum wages and not worry about all the overhead that a legal citizen requires ?
Why no hate for them ? It 's a great thing to have a permanent underclass that ca n't even call the cops if someone commits a crime against them ?
Are are you YET ANOTHER MORON who thinks being against illegal immigration is the exact same thing as being against * ALL * immigration because you have to real arguemnts ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you guys have the Freedom Party winning seats?
You really wanna wade swinging away the anti-immigrant sentiment fray, Dutch-boy?Explain to me exactly why US citizens are the only ones in the world who have to sit back and take the consequences of *illegal* immigration?
Why are we required to have an open border, especially by commenters from the EU who live in places with their own immigration furors?
It's actually a *bigger* issue in Holland.Look at the post a bit below this that basically says "Illegal immigrants took over your industry?
Go back to college, loser!
" How about the companies that exploit the illegal immigrants so they can pay sub-minimum wages and not worry about all the overhead that a legal citizen requires?
Why no hate for them?It's a great thing to have a permanent underclass that can't even call the cops if someone commits a crime against them?
Are are you YET ANOTHER MORON who thinks being against illegal immigration is the exact same thing as being against *ALL* immigration because you have to real arguemnts?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415690</id>
	<title>Re:Illegal work.</title>
	<author>bkr1\_2k</author>
	<datestamp>1268157840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're getting paid for your "virtual work", whatever that means, then you have supplied employment information required by the feds, or you are being paid as an "independent contractor" and are expected to provide income information on your taxes in April.</p><p>The problem is this won't make any damn difference in the status quo.  People will fake or steal these the same way the fake or steal SS cards and the other documents are very easy to get legally.  Hell, up until the mid 90s (I'm not sure exactly when this changed) you could get a social security number legally as a tourist for purposes of opening a bank account.  Tourist visas last for months so it's an easy justification to say it's unsafe to carry lots of cash while you're a tourist so you want to have it in a bank.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're getting paid for your " virtual work " , whatever that means , then you have supplied employment information required by the feds , or you are being paid as an " independent contractor " and are expected to provide income information on your taxes in April.The problem is this wo n't make any damn difference in the status quo .
People will fake or steal these the same way the fake or steal SS cards and the other documents are very easy to get legally .
Hell , up until the mid 90s ( I 'm not sure exactly when this changed ) you could get a social security number legally as a tourist for purposes of opening a bank account .
Tourist visas last for months so it 's an easy justification to say it 's unsafe to carry lots of cash while you 're a tourist so you want to have it in a bank .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're getting paid for your "virtual work", whatever that means, then you have supplied employment information required by the feds, or you are being paid as an "independent contractor" and are expected to provide income information on your taxes in April.The problem is this won't make any damn difference in the status quo.
People will fake or steal these the same way the fake or steal SS cards and the other documents are very easy to get legally.
Hell, up until the mid 90s (I'm not sure exactly when this changed) you could get a social security number legally as a tourist for purposes of opening a bank account.
Tourist visas last for months so it's an easy justification to say it's unsafe to carry lots of cash while you're a tourist so you want to have it in a bank.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414838</id>
	<title>We need a guest worker program.</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1268154900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most European countries have such programs and by most accounts they work fine. There is nothing wrong with wanting to control the flow of people (and goods) across your borders. It is necessary.

We don't need and shouldn't allow an unlimited/unknown number of people to enter our country. Some will be criminals. Most will be economic refugees. Our economy needs some unskilled laborers but we ought to be able to devise a way to give our own citizens the incentive to take work they deem is beneath them while giving businesses incentives to hire citizens. The penalties for hiring illegal migrants are already in place. They need to be enforced.

Personally I'd be glad to see the prices for a weekly lawn mowing go up. I see lawns in my neighborhood being mowed after weeks of drought when there has been zero growth. Cheap labor leads to waste! Yes it does!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most European countries have such programs and by most accounts they work fine .
There is nothing wrong with wanting to control the flow of people ( and goods ) across your borders .
It is necessary .
We do n't need and should n't allow an unlimited/unknown number of people to enter our country .
Some will be criminals .
Most will be economic refugees .
Our economy needs some unskilled laborers but we ought to be able to devise a way to give our own citizens the incentive to take work they deem is beneath them while giving businesses incentives to hire citizens .
The penalties for hiring illegal migrants are already in place .
They need to be enforced .
Personally I 'd be glad to see the prices for a weekly lawn mowing go up .
I see lawns in my neighborhood being mowed after weeks of drought when there has been zero growth .
Cheap labor leads to waste !
Yes it does !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most European countries have such programs and by most accounts they work fine.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to control the flow of people (and goods) across your borders.
It is necessary.
We don't need and shouldn't allow an unlimited/unknown number of people to enter our country.
Some will be criminals.
Most will be economic refugees.
Our economy needs some unskilled laborers but we ought to be able to devise a way to give our own citizens the incentive to take work they deem is beneath them while giving businesses incentives to hire citizens.
The penalties for hiring illegal migrants are already in place.
They need to be enforced.
Personally I'd be glad to see the prices for a weekly lawn mowing go up.
I see lawns in my neighborhood being mowed after weeks of drought when there has been zero growth.
Cheap labor leads to waste!
Yes it does!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414894</id>
	<title>Catch 22 results</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268155080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Worker: I would like a job<br>employer: you need an ID card<br>Worker to state: I need an ID card to work<br>State: ID card cost $100<br>Worker: I don't have any money which is why I need to work<br>State worker: sorry I'm just doing my job<br>Worker: turns to illegal employer that pays cash under the table<br>Worker goes to get ID, gets flagged because of his last visit.<br>Worker gets investigated and sent to jail for tax evasion<br>employer gets arrested for tax evasion<br>one less employee, one less employer, no change in employment.<br>jails fill up, taxes get higher, economy falls apart<br>revolution and the a-hole that created this law gets tared and feathered by the worker and employer.. I hope...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Worker : I would like a jobemployer : you need an ID cardWorker to state : I need an ID card to workState : ID card cost $ 100Worker : I do n't have any money which is why I need to workState worker : sorry I 'm just doing my jobWorker : turns to illegal employer that pays cash under the tableWorker goes to get ID , gets flagged because of his last visit.Worker gets investigated and sent to jail for tax evasionemployer gets arrested for tax evasionone less employee , one less employer , no change in employment.jails fill up , taxes get higher , economy falls apartrevolution and the a-hole that created this law gets tared and feathered by the worker and employer.. I hope.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Worker: I would like a jobemployer: you need an ID cardWorker to state: I need an ID card to workState: ID card cost $100Worker: I don't have any money which is why I need to workState worker: sorry I'm just doing my jobWorker: turns to illegal employer that pays cash under the tableWorker goes to get ID, gets flagged because of his last visit.Worker gets investigated and sent to jail for tax evasionemployer gets arrested for tax evasionone less employee, one less employer, no change in employment.jails fill up, taxes get higher, economy falls apartrevolution and the a-hole that created this law gets tared and feathered by the worker and employer.. I hope...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415330</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>dcollins</author>
	<datestamp>1268156460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc. I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept 'But this is a free country!' in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock."</p><p>Car Analogy: Null. I live in New York.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver 's license , car registration , proof of insurance , etc .
I 'm pretty sure the cops are n't going to accept 'But this is a free country !
' in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock .
" Car Analogy : Null .
I live in New York .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance, etc.
I'm pretty sure the cops aren't going to accept 'But this is a free country!
' in lieu of these if you get stopped at a roadblock.
"Car Analogy: Null.
I live in New York.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417138</id>
	<title>Typical response</title>
	<author>rickb928</author>
	<datestamp>1268164080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Figures.  To solve the illegal immigration problem, punish/suspect/subject the LEGAL CITIZENS of the U.S.</p><p>What a load.</p><p>- Our Congress doesn't dare solve this problem.  No special interest group will let them.<br>- Business doesn't want it solved.  Cheap and compliant labor is good for them.<br>- Politicians don't want to offend new voters, legal or not.<br>- Unions see illegals as potential new members.</p><p>Meanwhile:</p><p>- Citizens struggle to find even the lowest-paying jobs.  It's hard to compete with less.<br>- Work is going to illegals that never did before.  Who cleaned toilets in Maine before illegals came?<br>- Existing laws are ignored by federal authorities.<br>- Some municipalities actually PROMOTE illegal immigration.  A slap in the face of the citizens that pay taxes directly to these conspirators and law-breakers.<br>- The southern border is as easy to walk across as Times Square.  Only the terrible stupid or unlucky get caught.<br>- All proposals to secure the southern border are diminished and neutered so as to become useless.<br>- Employers pay minimal service to eVerify, etc, and largely are permitted to skate off of any violations.<br>- We see just enough enforcement action to give ICE a plausible story that they are actually effective.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  They are impotent, and deliberately so.<br>- We even prosecute those agents that are effective, and actively thwart local and state authorities that make an effort to deal with the problem.  We put effective agents in JAIL.</p><p>I'm not hopeful.  This transcends party politics.  Republicans and Democrats alike are complicit in this.  No Administration since Reagan has made even a marginal effort.  And Reagan failed.  We cannot tolerate this in the long run, and really have only the four boxes to use.</p><p>And you know what I'm talking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Figures .
To solve the illegal immigration problem , punish/suspect/subject the LEGAL CITIZENS of the U.S.What a load.- Our Congress does n't dare solve this problem .
No special interest group will let them.- Business does n't want it solved .
Cheap and compliant labor is good for them.- Politicians do n't want to offend new voters , legal or not.- Unions see illegals as potential new members.Meanwhile : - Citizens struggle to find even the lowest-paying jobs .
It 's hard to compete with less.- Work is going to illegals that never did before .
Who cleaned toilets in Maine before illegals came ? - Existing laws are ignored by federal authorities.- Some municipalities actually PROMOTE illegal immigration .
A slap in the face of the citizens that pay taxes directly to these conspirators and law-breakers.- The southern border is as easy to walk across as Times Square .
Only the terrible stupid or unlucky get caught.- All proposals to secure the southern border are diminished and neutered so as to become useless.- Employers pay minimal service to eVerify , etc , and largely are permitted to skate off of any violations.- We see just enough enforcement action to give ICE a plausible story that they are actually effective .
Nothing could be further from the truth .
They are impotent , and deliberately so.- We even prosecute those agents that are effective , and actively thwart local and state authorities that make an effort to deal with the problem .
We put effective agents in JAIL.I 'm not hopeful .
This transcends party politics .
Republicans and Democrats alike are complicit in this .
No Administration since Reagan has made even a marginal effort .
And Reagan failed .
We can not tolerate this in the long run , and really have only the four boxes to use.And you know what I 'm talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Figures.
To solve the illegal immigration problem, punish/suspect/subject the LEGAL CITIZENS of the U.S.What a load.- Our Congress doesn't dare solve this problem.
No special interest group will let them.- Business doesn't want it solved.
Cheap and compliant labor is good for them.- Politicians don't want to offend new voters, legal or not.- Unions see illegals as potential new members.Meanwhile:- Citizens struggle to find even the lowest-paying jobs.
It's hard to compete with less.- Work is going to illegals that never did before.
Who cleaned toilets in Maine before illegals came?- Existing laws are ignored by federal authorities.- Some municipalities actually PROMOTE illegal immigration.
A slap in the face of the citizens that pay taxes directly to these conspirators and law-breakers.- The southern border is as easy to walk across as Times Square.
Only the terrible stupid or unlucky get caught.- All proposals to secure the southern border are diminished and neutered so as to become useless.- Employers pay minimal service to eVerify, etc, and largely are permitted to skate off of any violations.- We see just enough enforcement action to give ICE a plausible story that they are actually effective.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
They are impotent, and deliberately so.- We even prosecute those agents that are effective, and actively thwart local and state authorities that make an effort to deal with the problem.
We put effective agents in JAIL.I'm not hopeful.
This transcends party politics.
Republicans and Democrats alike are complicit in this.
No Administration since Reagan has made even a marginal effort.
And Reagan failed.
We cannot tolerate this in the long run, and really have only the four boxes to use.And you know what I'm talking about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418454</id>
	<title>We should actually..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268126460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Deport every illegal beaner, bring every one of the troops home to secure the border, and keep it secure this way. I hate congress and the president and their fucking excuses for everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Deport every illegal beaner , bring every one of the troops home to secure the border , and keep it secure this way .
I hate congress and the president and their fucking excuses for everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Deport every illegal beaner, bring every one of the troops home to secure the border, and keep it secure this way.
I hate congress and the president and their fucking excuses for everything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416426</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1268160600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There are privacy concerns here, but not civil liberties ones (well, no more than are raised by all the other "papers").</i></p><p>Congrats, you win the <a href="http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-common-practice.html" title="nizkor.org">Appeal to Common Practice</a> [nizkor.org] logical fallacy award!</p><p>Any government action that impedes an individual's natural rights without preventing harm to others is immoral.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are privacy concerns here , but not civil liberties ones ( well , no more than are raised by all the other " papers " ) .Congrats , you win the Appeal to Common Practice [ nizkor.org ] logical fallacy award ! Any government action that impedes an individual 's natural rights without preventing harm to others is immoral .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are privacy concerns here, but not civil liberties ones (well, no more than are raised by all the other "papers").Congrats, you win the Appeal to Common Practice [nizkor.org] logical fallacy award!Any government action that impedes an individual's natural rights without preventing harm to others is immoral.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413348</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>Malc</author>
	<datestamp>1268148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't have a car.  I don't carry ID.  I'm not doing anything wrong, so why should I have to prove who I am?  Why should it be easier for the police to exercise power and control over people?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have a car .
I do n't carry ID .
I 'm not doing anything wrong , so why should I have to prove who I am ?
Why should it be easier for the police to exercise power and control over people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have a car.
I don't carry ID.
I'm not doing anything wrong, so why should I have to prove who I am?
Why should it be easier for the police to exercise power and control over people?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413118</id>
	<title>Working for money or having money</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268147760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So the people who have money can keep their privacy and freedom whereas the people who do the actual work must get an ID card? When will average Americans realize that they're not in the same boat as rich Americans but in the same boat as other working people, including foreign workers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So the people who have money can keep their privacy and freedom whereas the people who do the actual work must get an ID card ?
When will average Americans realize that they 're not in the same boat as rich Americans but in the same boat as other working people , including foreign workers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the people who have money can keep their privacy and freedom whereas the people who do the actual work must get an ID card?
When will average Americans realize that they're not in the same boat as rich Americans but in the same boat as other working people, including foreign workers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418074</id>
	<title>Re:For those who are going to complain</title>
	<author>snowgirl</author>
	<datestamp>1268168100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance...</p></div><p>You only need all of that if you're operating a vehicle, because operating a vehicle is a privilege.</p><p>I can walk out my house right now without any of that, and if a cop stops me while walking around or taking a bus, he cannot legitimately haul me into jail for failing to have any of it.</p><p>Oddly enough, in Washington state, with a motorcycle, you do not have to have proof of insurance, or even insurance at all.  You also do not have to have your vehicle registration on you, as your bike's license plate is sufficient for them to look up the information, and validate it.  And usually, they don't even care about your driver's license, as long as you can remember your DL number.</p><p>Literally, I could be going 80mph down a 60mph zone on my motorcycle, be stopped by a cop, and receive a ticket without showing one single piece of paper to him.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver 's license , car registration , proof of insurance...You only need all of that if you 're operating a vehicle , because operating a vehicle is a privilege.I can walk out my house right now without any of that , and if a cop stops me while walking around or taking a bus , he can not legitimately haul me into jail for failing to have any of it.Oddly enough , in Washington state , with a motorcycle , you do not have to have proof of insurance , or even insurance at all .
You also do not have to have your vehicle registration on you , as your bike 's license plate is sufficient for them to look up the information , and validate it .
And usually , they do n't even care about your driver 's license , as long as you can remember your DL number.Literally , I could be going 80mph down a 60mph zone on my motorcycle , be stopped by a cop , and receive a ticket without showing one single piece of paper to him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...try leaving your house some time in the U.S. without your driver's license, car registration, proof of insurance...You only need all of that if you're operating a vehicle, because operating a vehicle is a privilege.I can walk out my house right now without any of that, and if a cop stops me while walking around or taking a bus, he cannot legitimately haul me into jail for failing to have any of it.Oddly enough, in Washington state, with a motorcycle, you do not have to have proof of insurance, or even insurance at all.
You also do not have to have your vehicle registration on you, as your bike's license plate is sufficient for them to look up the information, and validate it.
And usually, they don't even care about your driver's license, as long as you can remember your DL number.Literally, I could be going 80mph down a 60mph zone on my motorcycle, be stopped by a cop, and receive a ticket without showing one single piece of paper to him.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413358</id>
	<title>F'em</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268148900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuck the State!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuck the State !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuck the State!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415444</id>
	<title>Passport?</title>
	<author>BradMajors</author>
	<datestamp>1268156820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What is wrong with using a Passport?  Passports will contain the same biometric information as these ID cards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What is wrong with using a Passport ?
Passports will contain the same biometric information as these ID cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is wrong with using a Passport?
Passports will contain the same biometric information as these ID cards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413850</id>
	<title>Never happen</title>
	<author>Anonymous Codger</author>
	<datestamp>1268151060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Between the libertarian right, the religious crazies who will conflate this with the "mark of the beast", and the lefties who don't trust law enforcement, this will never get through Congress. If it ever came to a vote, the uproar in the intertubes and talk radio would be deafening and the tea party loonies would all die of apoplexy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Between the libertarian right , the religious crazies who will conflate this with the " mark of the beast " , and the lefties who do n't trust law enforcement , this will never get through Congress .
If it ever came to a vote , the uproar in the intertubes and talk radio would be deafening and the tea party loonies would all die of apoplexy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Between the libertarian right, the religious crazies who will conflate this with the "mark of the beast", and the lefties who don't trust law enforcement, this will never get through Congress.
If it ever came to a vote, the uproar in the intertubes and talk radio would be deafening and the tea party loonies would all die of apoplexy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413010</id>
	<title>Branded like cattle...</title>
	<author>stakovahflow</author>
	<datestamp>1268147400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have always wanted to be branded like cattle. Thankfully, our government wants this to be the case, as well. And they make it sound like a good thing? I think not...</p><p>Good luck with the revolution!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have always wanted to be branded like cattle .
Thankfully , our government wants this to be the case , as well .
And they make it sound like a good thing ?
I think not...Good luck with the revolution !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have always wanted to be branded like cattle.
Thankfully, our government wants this to be the case, as well.
And they make it sound like a good thing?
I think not...Good luck with the revolution!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414596</id>
	<title>This was foretold</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268154000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RE:  person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand.</p><p>REVELATION 13:16<br>"And he causeth all<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... to receive a mark in their right hand or foreheads, that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.....<br>it is the number of a man and his number is 666."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RE : person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand.REVELATION 13 : 16 " And he causeth all ... to receive a mark in their right hand or foreheads , that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark , or the name of the beast , or the number of his name.....it is the number of a man and his number is 666 .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RE:  person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand.REVELATION 13:16"And he causeth all ... to receive a mark in their right hand or foreheads, that no man might buy or sell save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.....it is the number of a man and his number is 666.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31423364</id>
	<title>A Friend of Mine</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268160420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A friend of mine is not in the system. Never been officially employed, never been arrested/convicted, never had a license or ID-- nothing. The hospital he was born in had a fire, which resulted in a loss of ALL records. He has his birth certificate, but there is little or no record of him in the system. Guess what? He sells drugs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend of mine is not in the system .
Never been officially employed , never been arrested/convicted , never had a license or ID-- nothing .
The hospital he was born in had a fire , which resulted in a loss of ALL records .
He has his birth certificate , but there is little or no record of him in the system .
Guess what ?
He sells drugs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend of mine is not in the system.
Never been officially employed, never been arrested/convicted, never had a license or ID-- nothing.
The hospital he was born in had a fire, which resulted in a loss of ALL records.
He has his birth certificate, but there is little or no record of him in the system.
Guess what?
He sells drugs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413874</id>
	<title>Re:Greasing the wheels</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1268151180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r3qyw" title="bbc.co.uk">The Day the Immigrants Left</a> [bbc.co.uk] <br> <br>An asparagus farm was featured on this program. I can't say I'm surprised at your comment; It looked like back-breaking work. I couldn't believe that the group who worked in a restaurant gave up, though; Two didn't even turn up for work on the last day, and the third worked the morning <b>until the busiest time for the restaurant</b> and then walked out. He was the only guy front-of-house because the rest of the English people who were going the job for the show feigned illness.<br> <br>I'm fairly sure that the folks who whinged like pansies are roughly as infamous over here as <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx0-dN3giY0" title="youtube.com">this guy</a> [youtube.com] is in the US.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Day the Immigrants Left [ bbc.co.uk ] An asparagus farm was featured on this program .
I ca n't say I 'm surprised at your comment ; It looked like back-breaking work .
I could n't believe that the group who worked in a restaurant gave up , though ; Two did n't even turn up for work on the last day , and the third worked the morning until the busiest time for the restaurant and then walked out .
He was the only guy front-of-house because the rest of the English people who were going the job for the show feigned illness .
I 'm fairly sure that the folks who whinged like pansies are roughly as infamous over here as this guy [ youtube.com ] is in the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Day the Immigrants Left [bbc.co.uk]  An asparagus farm was featured on this program.
I can't say I'm surprised at your comment; It looked like back-breaking work.
I couldn't believe that the group who worked in a restaurant gave up, though; Two didn't even turn up for work on the last day, and the third worked the morning until the busiest time for the restaurant and then walked out.
He was the only guy front-of-house because the rest of the English people who were going the job for the show feigned illness.
I'm fairly sure that the folks who whinged like pansies are roughly as infamous over here as this guy [youtube.com] is in the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413458</id>
	<title>Re:why are people so emotional about this?</title>
	<author>ElSupreme</author>
	<datestamp>1268149260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But a drivers license is an OPTION. You don't need to drive. I went a good 4 years on my own without a car. Sure I lied to my employer (worked shitty hourly retail job while in college)about my ability to drive in when it was raining. But I lived for 1 year very close to school, and abotu 8 miles from work. Then I lived for 2 years about 2 miles from work and 12 miles from school, and finally I lived a year 9 miles from work and 10 miles from school. And sure I bummed some rides with friends every now and then but I also biked (or walked) 12 months doing all of this.<br>
<br>
Social Security they give me (hopefully) money when I retire. Sounds fair.<br>
<br>
This is just supposed to stop mexicans from working in the US. And well they will continue to work here despite the ID card because they alread do it illegially. It isn't like the employers are getting duped, they just want plausible deniability by having a fake SSN, they know they are hireing illegials. They will do the same with the id card. Just a different number.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But a drivers license is an OPTION .
You do n't need to drive .
I went a good 4 years on my own without a car .
Sure I lied to my employer ( worked shitty hourly retail job while in college ) about my ability to drive in when it was raining .
But I lived for 1 year very close to school , and abotu 8 miles from work .
Then I lived for 2 years about 2 miles from work and 12 miles from school , and finally I lived a year 9 miles from work and 10 miles from school .
And sure I bummed some rides with friends every now and then but I also biked ( or walked ) 12 months doing all of this .
Social Security they give me ( hopefully ) money when I retire .
Sounds fair .
This is just supposed to stop mexicans from working in the US .
And well they will continue to work here despite the ID card because they alread do it illegially .
It is n't like the employers are getting duped , they just want plausible deniability by having a fake SSN , they know they are hireing illegials .
They will do the same with the id card .
Just a different number .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But a drivers license is an OPTION.
You don't need to drive.
I went a good 4 years on my own without a car.
Sure I lied to my employer (worked shitty hourly retail job while in college)about my ability to drive in when it was raining.
But I lived for 1 year very close to school, and abotu 8 miles from work.
Then I lived for 2 years about 2 miles from work and 12 miles from school, and finally I lived a year 9 miles from work and 10 miles from school.
And sure I bummed some rides with friends every now and then but I also biked (or walked) 12 months doing all of this.
Social Security they give me (hopefully) money when I retire.
Sounds fair.
This is just supposed to stop mexicans from working in the US.
And well they will continue to work here despite the ID card because they alread do it illegially.
It isn't like the employers are getting duped, they just want plausible deniability by having a fake SSN, they know they are hireing illegials.
They will do the same with the id card.
Just a different number.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412976</id>
	<title>Re:Another card?</title>
	<author>Jurily</author>
	<datestamp>1268147280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps because the existing cards don't cover and weren't designed for this particular application, and using the driver's licence would be stupid?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps because the existing cards do n't cover and were n't designed for this particular application , and using the driver 's licence would be stupid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps because the existing cards don't cover and weren't designed for this particular application, and using the driver's licence would be stupid?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034</id>
	<title>666</title>
	<author>Ixtol</author>
	<datestamp>1268147520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>How long before people claim this as the mark of the Beast?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How long before people claim this as the mark of the Beast ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long before people claim this as the mark of the Beast?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962</id>
	<title>Illegal work.</title>
	<author>Ostracus</author>
	<datestamp>1268147220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand. It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said. The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor.""</p><p>What about virtual companies and telecommuters were the notion of "illegal worker" doesn't really exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand .
It would be required of all workers , including teenagers , but would be phased in , with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs , the person said .
The card requirement also would be phased in among employers , beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor .
" " What about virtual companies and telecommuters were the notion of " illegal worker " does n't really exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A person familiar with the legislative planning said the biometric data would likely be either fingerprints or a scan of the veins in the top of the hand.
It would be required of all workers, including teenagers, but would be phased in, with current workers needing to obtain the card only when they next changed jobs, the person said.
The card requirement also would be phased in among employers, beginning with industries that typically rely on illegal-immigrant labor.
""What about virtual companies and telecommuters were the notion of "illegal worker" doesn't really exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_61</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416530
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414700
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31420468
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414884
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416602
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415064
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414000
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413626
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413774
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414062
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415082
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_68</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414514
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413462
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413574
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_73</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413348
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414344
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418700
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415036
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416480
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412854
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418980
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413592
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413092
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_65</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412974
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414778
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416674
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_72</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413572
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415690
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416372
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413570
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_71</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413518
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416888
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_62</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413790
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413406
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413558
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413008
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_63</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413284
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_54</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416506
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413192
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416160
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_77</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415486
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_70</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416426
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413898
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31423246
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414350
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416054
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_60</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413874
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417252
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416636
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414108
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414198
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_69</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417168
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413458
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_76</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413914
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_59</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413958
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414650
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414048
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415128
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_75</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412976
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_66</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413782
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412960
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413770
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418074
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413158
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414530
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413266
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413328
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_67</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414304
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_58</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413658
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413294
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_74</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413380
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_57</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416716
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413224
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_64</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416156
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413978
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415884
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414660
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414888
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413840
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31425548
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_09_1310210_56</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31419674
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412848
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413088
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413294
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413284
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413458
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413266
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413782
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413348
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414344
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31419674
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413558
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417138
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413034
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31425548
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414108
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416372
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417168
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414686
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413270
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413978
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31420468
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413010
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414112
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412836
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413774
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413626
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414888
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413572
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416888
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412974
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414350
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413958
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412976
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413008
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413066
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416636
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413380
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414838
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414680
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413434
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412844
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412902
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412882
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412962
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416716
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415690
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412908
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412932
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412978
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413898
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414660
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415064
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416054
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412970
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413192
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413790
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413574
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418074
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413158
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414530
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413330
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31423246
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416160
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415330
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416426
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412856
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415036
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416674
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414778
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413406
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413092
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413224
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413658
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414048
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415128
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412880
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416506
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413462
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415486
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413570
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412960
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413770
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412904
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413592
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415884
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413518
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413300
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412890
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413328
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418700
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413124
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414650
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31417252
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413064
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413222
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413840
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414514
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416530
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31415082
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412992
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414198
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416480
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413914
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412878
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413460
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416156
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414000
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414700
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31416602
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414062
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414304
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31414884
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31413874
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412854
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31418980
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_09_1310210.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_09_1310210.31412830
</commentlist>
</conversation>
