<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_07_1331232</id>
	<title>Why Broadband In North America Is Not That Slow</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1267971840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"The Globe &amp; Mail has an article written in response to <a href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/pubrelease/broadband/">a recent study</a> done by the Berkman Center for Internet &amp; Society at Harvard about how far <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/canadas-broadband-lag/article1476525/">behind the rest of the world</a> the US and Canada are with regard to broadband internet. The refutation basically tears apart Harvard's analysis and shows <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/canada-and-broadband-when-behind-is-actually-ahead/article1491778/">why the US and Canada are actually far ahead of most European countries</a>. 'Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households. And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans, according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic. Further, business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world. Sadly, there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage. Instead, we see comparisons of advertised speeds and "price per advertised megabit," which are especially misleading. Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds. In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest. In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " The Globe &amp; Mail has an article written in response to a recent study done by the Berkman Center for Internet &amp; Society at Harvard about how far behind the rest of the world the US and Canada are with regard to broadband internet .
The refutation basically tears apart Harvard 's analysis and shows why the US and Canada are actually far ahead of most European countries .
'Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households .
And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans , according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic .
Further , business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world .
Sadly , there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage .
Instead , we see comparisons of advertised speeds and " price per advertised megabit , " which are especially misleading .
Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds .
In North America , this is largely a result of " network overhead , " and is quite modest .
In Europe , however , the variation is often dramatic .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "The Globe &amp; Mail has an article written in response to a recent study done by the Berkman Center for Internet &amp; Society at Harvard about how far behind the rest of the world the US and Canada are with regard to broadband internet.
The refutation basically tears apart Harvard's analysis and shows why the US and Canada are actually far ahead of most European countries.
'Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households.
And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans, according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic.
Further, business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world.
Sadly, there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage.
Instead, we see comparisons of advertised speeds and "price per advertised megabit," which are especially misleading.
Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds.
In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest.
In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395736</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1267970400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the same time, I live in NYC and can't get DSL, let alone FIOS.  Yes, there are metro ethernet providers, if you want to spend several hundred dollars a month for 10Mbps, and that's only available maybe sort-of in some places, if you're lucky.  The *only* option is cable, which... yes, it's true, if you want to lock yourself into a 3 year contract at $100/month, you can get 50Mbps down and 5Mbps up.
</p><p>Yeah, I know, lots of people in the US would give their left arm for a $100/month 50Mbps download pipe, but still, I'm not impressed.  It's one of the largest, richest, most influential cities in the world, and if I want an upload faster than 5Mbps, I have to spend at least $1,500/month.  Also, that $1,500/month connection will take at least 3-4 months from the order date until it gets turned on.  Seriously.
</p><p>Oh, and also that $100/month 50Mbps connection drops at least once a day, often enough requiring you to reboot the cable modem.  Yay!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the same time , I live in NYC and ca n't get DSL , let alone FIOS .
Yes , there are metro ethernet providers , if you want to spend several hundred dollars a month for 10Mbps , and that 's only available maybe sort-of in some places , if you 're lucky .
The * only * option is cable , which... yes , it 's true , if you want to lock yourself into a 3 year contract at $ 100/month , you can get 50Mbps down and 5Mbps up .
Yeah , I know , lots of people in the US would give their left arm for a $ 100/month 50Mbps download pipe , but still , I 'm not impressed .
It 's one of the largest , richest , most influential cities in the world , and if I want an upload faster than 5Mbps , I have to spend at least $ 1,500/month .
Also , that $ 1,500/month connection will take at least 3-4 months from the order date until it gets turned on .
Seriously . Oh , and also that $ 100/month 50Mbps connection drops at least once a day , often enough requiring you to reboot the cable modem .
Yay !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the same time, I live in NYC and can't get DSL, let alone FIOS.
Yes, there are metro ethernet providers, if you want to spend several hundred dollars a month for 10Mbps, and that's only available maybe sort-of in some places, if you're lucky.
The *only* option is cable, which... yes, it's true, if you want to lock yourself into a 3 year contract at $100/month, you can get 50Mbps down and 5Mbps up.
Yeah, I know, lots of people in the US would give their left arm for a $100/month 50Mbps download pipe, but still, I'm not impressed.
It's one of the largest, richest, most influential cities in the world, and if I want an upload faster than 5Mbps, I have to spend at least $1,500/month.
Also, that $1,500/month connection will take at least 3-4 months from the order date until it gets turned on.
Seriously.
Oh, and also that $100/month 50Mbps connection drops at least once a day, often enough requiring you to reboot the cable modem.
Yay!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31400220</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>RzUpAnmsCwrds</author>
	<datestamp>1268061300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can get 22/5 or 50/10 from Comcast today. I have 12/2 because it's cheaper and because I don't give a crap about downloading Fedora DVDs in 10 minutes instead of 30.</p><p>Pretty much every place I've lived in the US has had at least two providers - DSL and cable. Additionally there are wireless ISPs that are becoming competitive (using 802.16), both national and regional.</p><p>Comcast has not, to my knowledge, raised broadband rates. They have repeatedly increased bandwidth. I started in 2001 with 1.5/256k; now I have 12/2 for the same price.</p><p>We could compare costs, but you don't want to get into that game. I could just as easily point out the fact that you pay far more for electricity, gas, and most consumer goods.</p><p>I'm paying $25/mo right now for 12/2. 22/5 would run $45/mo. These are promotional rates; the normal rate for 22/5 is around $65/mo.</p><p>Qwest also offers 20/10 and 40/10 VDSL2 in my area, but they are more expensive than Comcast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can get 22/5 or 50/10 from Comcast today .
I have 12/2 because it 's cheaper and because I do n't give a crap about downloading Fedora DVDs in 10 minutes instead of 30.Pretty much every place I 've lived in the US has had at least two providers - DSL and cable .
Additionally there are wireless ISPs that are becoming competitive ( using 802.16 ) , both national and regional.Comcast has not , to my knowledge , raised broadband rates .
They have repeatedly increased bandwidth .
I started in 2001 with 1.5/256k ; now I have 12/2 for the same price.We could compare costs , but you do n't want to get into that game .
I could just as easily point out the fact that you pay far more for electricity , gas , and most consumer goods.I 'm paying $ 25/mo right now for 12/2 .
22/5 would run $ 45/mo .
These are promotional rates ; the normal rate for 22/5 is around $ 65/mo.Qwest also offers 20/10 and 40/10 VDSL2 in my area , but they are more expensive than Comcast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can get 22/5 or 50/10 from Comcast today.
I have 12/2 because it's cheaper and because I don't give a crap about downloading Fedora DVDs in 10 minutes instead of 30.Pretty much every place I've lived in the US has had at least two providers - DSL and cable.
Additionally there are wireless ISPs that are becoming competitive (using 802.16), both national and regional.Comcast has not, to my knowledge, raised broadband rates.
They have repeatedly increased bandwidth.
I started in 2001 with 1.5/256k; now I have 12/2 for the same price.We could compare costs, but you don't want to get into that game.
I could just as easily point out the fact that you pay far more for electricity, gas, and most consumer goods.I'm paying $25/mo right now for 12/2.
22/5 would run $45/mo.
These are promotional rates; the normal rate for 22/5 is around $65/mo.Qwest also offers 20/10 and 40/10 VDSL2 in my area, but they are more expensive than Comcast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391054</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>godrik</author>
	<datestamp>1267984440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe it is BS too.</p><p>But in france, on ADSL, the advertised bandwidth is the ATM bandwidth. So when Free Telecom advertise 20Mbps it is actually 16Mbps. And for trying to use this bandwidth for downloading... Debian ISO... over bittorrent, you actually get 16Mbps (ok perhaps 15.8 but who cares).</p><p>So yes, there is an overhead between usefull bandwidth and advertised bandwidth which is constant by technology and usually written in the fine lines. Moreover, 20Mbps (atm) is a de facto standard in France, we tend to think that anything slower is slow.</p><p>Whereas where I live now (Columbus, OH) people tend to say "Wow 6Mbps!!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it is BS too.But in france , on ADSL , the advertised bandwidth is the ATM bandwidth .
So when Free Telecom advertise 20Mbps it is actually 16Mbps .
And for trying to use this bandwidth for downloading... Debian ISO... over bittorrent , you actually get 16Mbps ( ok perhaps 15.8 but who cares ) .So yes , there is an overhead between usefull bandwidth and advertised bandwidth which is constant by technology and usually written in the fine lines .
Moreover , 20Mbps ( atm ) is a de facto standard in France , we tend to think that anything slower is slow.Whereas where I live now ( Columbus , OH ) people tend to say " Wow 6Mbps ! !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe it is BS too.But in france, on ADSL, the advertised bandwidth is the ATM bandwidth.
So when Free Telecom advertise 20Mbps it is actually 16Mbps.
And for trying to use this bandwidth for downloading... Debian ISO... over bittorrent, you actually get 16Mbps (ok perhaps 15.8 but who cares).So yes, there is an overhead between usefull bandwidth and advertised bandwidth which is constant by technology and usually written in the fine lines.
Moreover, 20Mbps (atm) is a de facto standard in France, we tend to think that anything slower is slow.Whereas where I live now (Columbus, OH) people tend to say "Wow 6Mbps!!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392420</id>
	<title>2 countries in NA?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267991520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>NA starts in Panama, and Canada has like no people 30 something million. This report does not work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NA starts in Panama , and Canada has like no people 30 something million .
This report does not work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NA starts in Panama, and Canada has like no people 30 something million.
This report does not work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390092</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267978980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not just size and population density.

</p><p>For example, consider a large North American city like New York. Very high population density, very wealthy, lots of demand. By your logic, broadband there should be cheap and fast, but it isn't (or not at Scandinavian levels anyway).

</p><p>(don't worry about moral superiority, this debate is really just frustration almost everywhere that we can't get the astonishing service they have in Sweden, argh)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not just size and population density .
For example , consider a large North American city like New York .
Very high population density , very wealthy , lots of demand .
By your logic , broadband there should be cheap and fast , but it is n't ( or not at Scandinavian levels anyway ) .
( do n't worry about moral superiority , this debate is really just frustration almost everywhere that we ca n't get the astonishing service they have in Sweden , argh )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not just size and population density.
For example, consider a large North American city like New York.
Very high population density, very wealthy, lots of demand.
By your logic, broadband there should be cheap and fast, but it isn't (or not at Scandinavian levels anyway).
(don't worry about moral superiority, this debate is really just frustration almost everywhere that we can't get the astonishing service they have in Sweden, argh)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394568</id>
	<title>Building infrastructure is difficult in the US</title>
	<author>urusan</author>
	<datestamp>1267961880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US is a massive country. It has a low population density. Geometrically it is roughly rectangular, but the skinny part of the rectangle is very wide, leading to a large area compared to its perimeter. Politically, there is a great deal of internal division but the smaller divisions are relatively weak. This is a horrible combination for building infrastructure.</p><p>The size, low population density, and geometry of the country mean that everything is spread out. Even worse, everything is spread out in all directions. Attaining coverage of a significant fraction of the population is a massive project and it should come as no surprise that new infrastructure technologies are slow to be implemented in this situation.</p><p>Politically, the internal divisions mean that not everyone gets on board with big projects, but the weakness of the smaller divisions mean that while they have the power to be obstructionist when they disagree, those divisions that agree are generally unable to take the initiative and build the infrastructure themselves.</p><p>All of these problems have been clearly visible in every major infrastructure project in the history of the US. The US highway system was a massive and expensive project and many local governments were obstructionist. Cell phones took far longer to catch on in the US because poor geographic coverage meant that cell phones were unreliable for a longer time. etc. Every time the system needs a major overhaul due to new technology a whole new infrastructure needs to be built, and the same problems apply.</p><p>These problems also harm other infrastructure proposals that have worked well in other countries. For instance, rail works well in countries like Japan but (re)building the rail infrastructure in the US would be a massive undertaking.</p><p>If you look at countries that have excellent infrastructure, you'll notice that they have the opposite attributes. Japan is a great example. They are a small country with a very high population density. 10\% of their population is even more densely packed into their capital city. Their nation has a very elongated shape. Even better, the center of the country is mountainous and nearly all of the population lives along their very long coastline, which means that when building infrastructure they can focus on that area. Although they are split into four islands, they are all close enough to be connected by bridges and tunnels. They have a very strong national government.</p><p>With all this taken into account, I find it highly unsurprising that the US is lagging in this area. The bottom line is that infrastructure will take longer to build and be more expensive to operate in the US than other countries because we have to build (and maintain) more of it to achieve the same effect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US is a massive country .
It has a low population density .
Geometrically it is roughly rectangular , but the skinny part of the rectangle is very wide , leading to a large area compared to its perimeter .
Politically , there is a great deal of internal division but the smaller divisions are relatively weak .
This is a horrible combination for building infrastructure.The size , low population density , and geometry of the country mean that everything is spread out .
Even worse , everything is spread out in all directions .
Attaining coverage of a significant fraction of the population is a massive project and it should come as no surprise that new infrastructure technologies are slow to be implemented in this situation.Politically , the internal divisions mean that not everyone gets on board with big projects , but the weakness of the smaller divisions mean that while they have the power to be obstructionist when they disagree , those divisions that agree are generally unable to take the initiative and build the infrastructure themselves.All of these problems have been clearly visible in every major infrastructure project in the history of the US .
The US highway system was a massive and expensive project and many local governments were obstructionist .
Cell phones took far longer to catch on in the US because poor geographic coverage meant that cell phones were unreliable for a longer time .
etc. Every time the system needs a major overhaul due to new technology a whole new infrastructure needs to be built , and the same problems apply.These problems also harm other infrastructure proposals that have worked well in other countries .
For instance , rail works well in countries like Japan but ( re ) building the rail infrastructure in the US would be a massive undertaking.If you look at countries that have excellent infrastructure , you 'll notice that they have the opposite attributes .
Japan is a great example .
They are a small country with a very high population density .
10 \ % of their population is even more densely packed into their capital city .
Their nation has a very elongated shape .
Even better , the center of the country is mountainous and nearly all of the population lives along their very long coastline , which means that when building infrastructure they can focus on that area .
Although they are split into four islands , they are all close enough to be connected by bridges and tunnels .
They have a very strong national government.With all this taken into account , I find it highly unsurprising that the US is lagging in this area .
The bottom line is that infrastructure will take longer to build and be more expensive to operate in the US than other countries because we have to build ( and maintain ) more of it to achieve the same effect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US is a massive country.
It has a low population density.
Geometrically it is roughly rectangular, but the skinny part of the rectangle is very wide, leading to a large area compared to its perimeter.
Politically, there is a great deal of internal division but the smaller divisions are relatively weak.
This is a horrible combination for building infrastructure.The size, low population density, and geometry of the country mean that everything is spread out.
Even worse, everything is spread out in all directions.
Attaining coverage of a significant fraction of the population is a massive project and it should come as no surprise that new infrastructure technologies are slow to be implemented in this situation.Politically, the internal divisions mean that not everyone gets on board with big projects, but the weakness of the smaller divisions mean that while they have the power to be obstructionist when they disagree, those divisions that agree are generally unable to take the initiative and build the infrastructure themselves.All of these problems have been clearly visible in every major infrastructure project in the history of the US.
The US highway system was a massive and expensive project and many local governments were obstructionist.
Cell phones took far longer to catch on in the US because poor geographic coverage meant that cell phones were unreliable for a longer time.
etc. Every time the system needs a major overhaul due to new technology a whole new infrastructure needs to be built, and the same problems apply.These problems also harm other infrastructure proposals that have worked well in other countries.
For instance, rail works well in countries like Japan but (re)building the rail infrastructure in the US would be a massive undertaking.If you look at countries that have excellent infrastructure, you'll notice that they have the opposite attributes.
Japan is a great example.
They are a small country with a very high population density.
10\% of their population is even more densely packed into their capital city.
Their nation has a very elongated shape.
Even better, the center of the country is mountainous and nearly all of the population lives along their very long coastline, which means that when building infrastructure they can focus on that area.
Although they are split into four islands, they are all close enough to be connected by bridges and tunnels.
They have a very strong national government.With all this taken into account, I find it highly unsurprising that the US is lagging in this area.
The bottom line is that infrastructure will take longer to build and be more expensive to operate in the US than other countries because we have to build (and maintain) more of it to achieve the same effect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391006</id>
	<title>Furthermore</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1267984140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you RTFM and look at the comments, a blogger notes that Bell Canada has a significant ownership stake in The Globe &amp; Mail which immediately takes any shred of impartiality out of the article.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you RTFM and look at the comments , a blogger notes that Bell Canada has a significant ownership stake in The Globe &amp; Mail which immediately takes any shred of impartiality out of the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you RTFM and look at the comments, a blogger notes that Bell Canada has a significant ownership stake in The Globe &amp; Mail which immediately takes any shred of impartiality out of the article.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390218</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>arcade</author>
	<datestamp>1267979640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Define broadband.</p><p>I would claim that anthing providing less than 10Mbit download and 2Mbit upload is bloody slow, these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Define broadband.I would claim that anthing providing less than 10Mbit download and 2Mbit upload is bloody slow , these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Define broadband.I would claim that anthing providing less than 10Mbit download and 2Mbit upload is bloody slow, these days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390104</id>
	<title>Let's follow the money...</title>
	<author>divisionbyzero</author>
	<datestamp>1267979100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Usually when a study comes to such dramatically different conclusions from a fairly respectable institution my alarm bells start ringing.  It usually smells like media manipulation.  So, let's see.  The Globe and Mail is owned by CTVGlobemedia which in turn is owned by among others Bell Canada.  Bell Canada (as well as the other former Bells) were excoriated by the Harvard report for being anti-competitive and providing poor value.  Hrm...  Nothing definitive but fairly fishy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Usually when a study comes to such dramatically different conclusions from a fairly respectable institution my alarm bells start ringing .
It usually smells like media manipulation .
So , let 's see .
The Globe and Mail is owned by CTVGlobemedia which in turn is owned by among others Bell Canada .
Bell Canada ( as well as the other former Bells ) were excoriated by the Harvard report for being anti-competitive and providing poor value .
Hrm... Nothing definitive but fairly fishy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Usually when a study comes to such dramatically different conclusions from a fairly respectable institution my alarm bells start ringing.
It usually smells like media manipulation.
So, let's see.
The Globe and Mail is owned by CTVGlobemedia which in turn is owned by among others Bell Canada.
Bell Canada (as well as the other former Bells) were excoriated by the Harvard report for being anti-competitive and providing poor value.
Hrm...  Nothing definitive but fairly fishy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389952</id>
	<title>Sooo... let's see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267978080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to live in the US from 1996 to 2008, and I lived in the freaking center of a major city.  In 1998 or so they started offering DSL, 768k SDSL, for like $80 per month.  That was concentric, which ended up becoming XO and canceling all their consumer accounts.  I switched to the excellent Speakeasy, but it was still more money for less speed at the time.  Later, the truly craptasic Verizon DSL showed up, which many people signed up for, since the advertising was heavy.  One of my friends have had that go on and off once a week or more until he finally got fed up and cancelled it.  Another one of my friends signed up for their DSL in order to set up a test web site for class, but then found out after the fact that they block port 80.  By the time I left, I had 3 or 6Mbit DSL for around $60 a month, but at least it actually gave that speed and had a static IP.  On the other hand, cable internet also arrived, and gives speeds "up to 12mbps" last I checked, but seems to vary drastically according to my friends who use it.  I had AT&amp;T 3G before I left, which with my company discount was $80 a month for 3Mbit, which even in the best coverage areas was usually 2Mbit max.  The upload speed was truly pathetic.  Around the time I left, Verizon started to offer their FIOS service, which isn't even available in the city I was in, but in the suburbs.  It could offer speeds "up to 30Mbps", but that would have cost more than whatever default speed they gave.</p><p>Now...  The DSL here, is like $5 a month for 14-16mbps.  100Mbps or 160Mbps fiber is about $40 a month.  1Gbps is available now for not much more.  21Mbit 3G (with 4.8Mbps upstream) that actually delivers that speed most of the time is about $50 a month.  40Mbps WiMax is also available for cheap, but the reception is not good.  In every case the bandwidth is better, they don't play games with port blocking/rate limiting and shit, and the price is cheaper.  In fact, I use my 3G router to download at least dozens of GB per month.</p><p>Also, nearly everything mentioned above is available almost anywhere in Japan.  I don't want to hear the excuse "oh that's because Japan is a small island."  We have as much empty space as the US to be sure.  As for people not being heavy users, there is a reason why the higher speeds are available.  I don't know the situation in Europe first-hand, but at least in Korea it's similar to here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to live in the US from 1996 to 2008 , and I lived in the freaking center of a major city .
In 1998 or so they started offering DSL , 768k SDSL , for like $ 80 per month .
That was concentric , which ended up becoming XO and canceling all their consumer accounts .
I switched to the excellent Speakeasy , but it was still more money for less speed at the time .
Later , the truly craptasic Verizon DSL showed up , which many people signed up for , since the advertising was heavy .
One of my friends have had that go on and off once a week or more until he finally got fed up and cancelled it .
Another one of my friends signed up for their DSL in order to set up a test web site for class , but then found out after the fact that they block port 80 .
By the time I left , I had 3 or 6Mbit DSL for around $ 60 a month , but at least it actually gave that speed and had a static IP .
On the other hand , cable internet also arrived , and gives speeds " up to 12mbps " last I checked , but seems to vary drastically according to my friends who use it .
I had AT&amp;T 3G before I left , which with my company discount was $ 80 a month for 3Mbit , which even in the best coverage areas was usually 2Mbit max .
The upload speed was truly pathetic .
Around the time I left , Verizon started to offer their FIOS service , which is n't even available in the city I was in , but in the suburbs .
It could offer speeds " up to 30Mbps " , but that would have cost more than whatever default speed they gave.Now... The DSL here , is like $ 5 a month for 14-16mbps .
100Mbps or 160Mbps fiber is about $ 40 a month .
1Gbps is available now for not much more .
21Mbit 3G ( with 4.8Mbps upstream ) that actually delivers that speed most of the time is about $ 50 a month .
40Mbps WiMax is also available for cheap , but the reception is not good .
In every case the bandwidth is better , they do n't play games with port blocking/rate limiting and shit , and the price is cheaper .
In fact , I use my 3G router to download at least dozens of GB per month.Also , nearly everything mentioned above is available almost anywhere in Japan .
I do n't want to hear the excuse " oh that 's because Japan is a small island .
" We have as much empty space as the US to be sure .
As for people not being heavy users , there is a reason why the higher speeds are available .
I do n't know the situation in Europe first-hand , but at least in Korea it 's similar to here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to live in the US from 1996 to 2008, and I lived in the freaking center of a major city.
In 1998 or so they started offering DSL, 768k SDSL, for like $80 per month.
That was concentric, which ended up becoming XO and canceling all their consumer accounts.
I switched to the excellent Speakeasy, but it was still more money for less speed at the time.
Later, the truly craptasic Verizon DSL showed up, which many people signed up for, since the advertising was heavy.
One of my friends have had that go on and off once a week or more until he finally got fed up and cancelled it.
Another one of my friends signed up for their DSL in order to set up a test web site for class, but then found out after the fact that they block port 80.
By the time I left, I had 3 or 6Mbit DSL for around $60 a month, but at least it actually gave that speed and had a static IP.
On the other hand, cable internet also arrived, and gives speeds "up to 12mbps" last I checked, but seems to vary drastically according to my friends who use it.
I had AT&amp;T 3G before I left, which with my company discount was $80 a month for 3Mbit, which even in the best coverage areas was usually 2Mbit max.
The upload speed was truly pathetic.
Around the time I left, Verizon started to offer their FIOS service, which isn't even available in the city I was in, but in the suburbs.
It could offer speeds "up to 30Mbps", but that would have cost more than whatever default speed they gave.Now...  The DSL here, is like $5 a month for 14-16mbps.
100Mbps or 160Mbps fiber is about $40 a month.
1Gbps is available now for not much more.
21Mbit 3G (with 4.8Mbps upstream) that actually delivers that speed most of the time is about $50 a month.
40Mbps WiMax is also available for cheap, but the reception is not good.
In every case the bandwidth is better, they don't play games with port blocking/rate limiting and shit, and the price is cheaper.
In fact, I use my 3G router to download at least dozens of GB per month.Also, nearly everything mentioned above is available almost anywhere in Japan.
I don't want to hear the excuse "oh that's because Japan is a small island.
"  We have as much empty space as the US to be sure.
As for people not being heavy users, there is a reason why the higher speeds are available.
I don't know the situation in Europe first-hand, but at least in Korea it's similar to here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390354</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1267980480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stuck inside? If something the winters were awesome as a kid. Snowboarding, playing in the snow, cute girls with red cheeks and all the crazy stuff we used to do  (and as a little vigilante throw snowballs at cars and run hiding<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:). Of course, when you got inside you could enjoy a game of Civilization. I would take all of that anytime over surfing or making sand castles on the beach as a kid, as these things I can do now as an adult.</p><p>And I still like winters, but just for other reasons - they're romantic time and nothing better than putting woolen socks on with a girl and enjoy the warmness together. Though excluding this year it's been way too warm for that, damn global warming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stuck inside ?
If something the winters were awesome as a kid .
Snowboarding , playing in the snow , cute girls with red cheeks and all the crazy stuff we used to do ( and as a little vigilante throw snowballs at cars and run hiding : ) .
Of course , when you got inside you could enjoy a game of Civilization .
I would take all of that anytime over surfing or making sand castles on the beach as a kid , as these things I can do now as an adult.And I still like winters , but just for other reasons - they 're romantic time and nothing better than putting woolen socks on with a girl and enjoy the warmness together .
Though excluding this year it 's been way too warm for that , damn global warming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stuck inside?
If something the winters were awesome as a kid.
Snowboarding, playing in the snow, cute girls with red cheeks and all the crazy stuff we used to do  (and as a little vigilante throw snowballs at cars and run hiding :).
Of course, when you got inside you could enjoy a game of Civilization.
I would take all of that anytime over surfing or making sand castles on the beach as a kid, as these things I can do now as an adult.And I still like winters, but just for other reasons - they're romantic time and nothing better than putting woolen socks on with a girl and enjoy the warmness together.
Though excluding this year it's been way too warm for that, damn global warming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391378</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>ljw1004</author>
	<datestamp>1267986240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have Qwest DSL. I have never got more than 75\% of the advertised speed, down or up. I have spent hours on the phone with their support. Their only answer is that "anything above 75\% is not actionable". I'm thinking about paying them only 75\% of my bill.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have Qwest DSL .
I have never got more than 75 \ % of the advertised speed , down or up .
I have spent hours on the phone with their support .
Their only answer is that " anything above 75 \ % is not actionable " .
I 'm thinking about paying them only 75 \ % of my bill .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have Qwest DSL.
I have never got more than 75\% of the advertised speed, down or up.
I have spent hours on the phone with their support.
Their only answer is that "anything above 75\% is not actionable".
I'm thinking about paying them only 75\% of my bill.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395166</id>
	<title>$99.99 for 50Mbps and 175GB Cap is good?</title>
	<author>Analog-X64</author>
	<datestamp>1267966380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Was this study conducted by  Rogers and Bell Canada? The two Monopoly's in Canada who provide internet?<br>
<br>
Current Rogers Packages (costs per month)<br>
<br>
$27.99 - 500 Kbps Download speed    256Kbps upload speed    2GB monthly Usage (Upload and download)<br>
<br>
$35.99 - 3 Mbps Download speed  256Kbps upload speed   25GB monthly usage (upload and download)<br>
<br>
$46.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed   512Kbps upload speed	  60GB monthly usage (upload and download)<br>
<br>
$59.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed   1Mbps upload speed   95GB monthly usage (upload and download)<br>
<br>
$69.99 - 25 Mbps	Download speed   1Mbps upload speed   125GB monthly usage (upload and download)<br>
<br>
$99.99 - 50 Mbps Download speed   2Mbps upload speed   175GB monthly usage (upload and download)<br>
<br>
Let me explain something to the un-initiated, those download speeds? are advertised as UP TO. <br>
So if you sign up for the $69.99 package and can only get 17Mbps and you call support, you are<br>
than told that is within the exceptable speed limit.<br>

You tell me thats better than $29.99 for 100Mbps Fiber in Japan?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Was this study conducted by Rogers and Bell Canada ?
The two Monopoly 's in Canada who provide internet ?
Current Rogers Packages ( costs per month ) $ 27.99 - 500 Kbps Download speed 256Kbps upload speed 2GB monthly Usage ( Upload and download ) $ 35.99 - 3 Mbps Download speed 256Kbps upload speed 25GB monthly usage ( upload and download ) $ 46.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed 512Kbps upload speed 60GB monthly usage ( upload and download ) $ 59.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed 1Mbps upload speed 95GB monthly usage ( upload and download ) $ 69.99 - 25 Mbps Download speed 1Mbps upload speed 125GB monthly usage ( upload and download ) $ 99.99 - 50 Mbps Download speed 2Mbps upload speed 175GB monthly usage ( upload and download ) Let me explain something to the un-initiated , those download speeds ?
are advertised as UP TO .
So if you sign up for the $ 69.99 package and can only get 17Mbps and you call support , you are than told that is within the exceptable speed limit .
You tell me thats better than $ 29.99 for 100Mbps Fiber in Japan ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was this study conducted by  Rogers and Bell Canada?
The two Monopoly's in Canada who provide internet?
Current Rogers Packages (costs per month)

$27.99 - 500 Kbps Download speed    256Kbps upload speed    2GB monthly Usage (Upload and download)

$35.99 - 3 Mbps Download speed  256Kbps upload speed   25GB monthly usage (upload and download)

$46.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed   512Kbps upload speed	  60GB monthly usage (upload and download)

$59.99 - 10 Mbps Download speed   1Mbps upload speed   95GB monthly usage (upload and download)

$69.99 - 25 Mbps	Download speed   1Mbps upload speed   125GB monthly usage (upload and download)

$99.99 - 50 Mbps Download speed   2Mbps upload speed   175GB monthly usage (upload and download)

Let me explain something to the un-initiated, those download speeds?
are advertised as UP TO.
So if you sign up for the $69.99 package and can only get 17Mbps and you call support, you are
than told that is within the exceptable speed limit.
You tell me thats better than $29.99 for 100Mbps Fiber in Japan?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390194</id>
	<title>It may suck now...</title>
	<author>masdog</author>
	<datestamp>1267979520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The state of broadband in North America may suck now, but it doesn't have to stay that way.</p><p>The Obama stimulus bill provided billions of dollars for broadband development in rural areas.  I don't know if any of that money is still available.  If it is, then we (collectively) should start forming Co-ops like the East Vermont Fiber Project that was featured on Slashdot a while back and start building out our own infrastructure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The state of broadband in North America may suck now , but it does n't have to stay that way.The Obama stimulus bill provided billions of dollars for broadband development in rural areas .
I do n't know if any of that money is still available .
If it is , then we ( collectively ) should start forming Co-ops like the East Vermont Fiber Project that was featured on Slashdot a while back and start building out our own infrastructure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The state of broadband in North America may suck now, but it doesn't have to stay that way.The Obama stimulus bill provided billions of dollars for broadband development in rural areas.
I don't know if any of that money is still available.
If it is, then we (collectively) should start forming Co-ops like the East Vermont Fiber Project that was featured on Slashdot a while back and start building out our own infrastructure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394500</id>
	<title>But why do we care?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267961460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is there this dire need for the US to be the first, the best, at everything? Some people act as though if they US is dominant in every facet we are screwed. I just don't see that. I mean the US is dominant, is #1m in many areas that, by definition, means all other countries are not. Well I've been to those other countries and I've got to say, I liked what I saw. I go to Canada often, I've been to Europe and in both cases I'd have no problem living there. They may not be #1 at everything, or even at anything, but they are nice modern places to live. They've got all the comforts I've come to demand and expect in the US and so on. Life seems good there, despite not being "the best".</p><p>So I fail to see what the problem is if the US isn't the best, the top at something. I'm ok with that. All I care about is are we good enough (good enough varies depending on what we are talking about). In the case of Internet, I'd say ya we are. We may not be the best but who cares?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is there this dire need for the US to be the first , the best , at everything ?
Some people act as though if they US is dominant in every facet we are screwed .
I just do n't see that .
I mean the US is dominant , is # 1m in many areas that , by definition , means all other countries are not .
Well I 've been to those other countries and I 've got to say , I liked what I saw .
I go to Canada often , I 've been to Europe and in both cases I 'd have no problem living there .
They may not be # 1 at everything , or even at anything , but they are nice modern places to live .
They 've got all the comforts I 've come to demand and expect in the US and so on .
Life seems good there , despite not being " the best " .So I fail to see what the problem is if the US is n't the best , the top at something .
I 'm ok with that .
All I care about is are we good enough ( good enough varies depending on what we are talking about ) .
In the case of Internet , I 'd say ya we are .
We may not be the best but who cares ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is there this dire need for the US to be the first, the best, at everything?
Some people act as though if they US is dominant in every facet we are screwed.
I just don't see that.
I mean the US is dominant, is #1m in many areas that, by definition, means all other countries are not.
Well I've been to those other countries and I've got to say, I liked what I saw.
I go to Canada often, I've been to Europe and in both cases I'd have no problem living there.
They may not be #1 at everything, or even at anything, but they are nice modern places to live.
They've got all the comforts I've come to demand and expect in the US and so on.
Life seems good there, despite not being "the best".So I fail to see what the problem is if the US isn't the best, the top at something.
I'm ok with that.
All I care about is are we good enough (good enough varies depending on what we are talking about).
In the case of Internet, I'd say ya we are.
We may not be the best but who cares?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391368</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267986180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>My girlfriends mother lives in Duisburg, her DSL is in terms of latency not terrible, but the actual downstream is frequently barely above DSL levels. I'm currently staying in Belgium and the ISP here cuts service down to 56K levels after 100Gb. I don't know what they're paying for it, but for a house of 9 students they're on 56K service for roughly 3 weeks a month.<br> <br>

Point being, what is "installed" and what is "usable" are two entirely different things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My girlfriends mother lives in Duisburg , her DSL is in terms of latency not terrible , but the actual downstream is frequently barely above DSL levels .
I 'm currently staying in Belgium and the ISP here cuts service down to 56K levels after 100Gb .
I do n't know what they 're paying for it , but for a house of 9 students they 're on 56K service for roughly 3 weeks a month .
Point being , what is " installed " and what is " usable " are two entirely different things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My girlfriends mother lives in Duisburg, her DSL is in terms of latency not terrible, but the actual downstream is frequently barely above DSL levels.
I'm currently staying in Belgium and the ISP here cuts service down to 56K levels after 100Gb.
I don't know what they're paying for it, but for a house of 9 students they're on 56K service for roughly 3 weeks a month.
Point being, what is "installed" and what is "usable" are two entirely different things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392638</id>
	<title>My experiences in Germany and SF Bay Area</title>
	<author>MyFirstNameIsPaul</author>
	<datestamp>1267993080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Bad Kreuznacnh, Germany, in 2004, my apartment building didn't even allow dial-up.  This was something I couldn't even imagine, but the stupid phone plug was not compatible with any of the modems I purchased at Dr. Best, and I later learned that the building code did not allow internet over the phone line.</p><p>When I left San Jose in 2002 there was only dial-up as an option in the two neighborhoods that I had lived in.  AT&amp;T had wired up much of the city, but the city council wasn't letting them conduct business.</p><p>RCN wired fiber up all over San Francisco, and how long was it before the city let them offer their services?</p><p>The problem in the U.S. isn't just the issue of the FCC's limiting competition, it's corrupt city councils and citizens too busy doing other things to care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Bad Kreuznacnh , Germany , in 2004 , my apartment building did n't even allow dial-up .
This was something I could n't even imagine , but the stupid phone plug was not compatible with any of the modems I purchased at Dr. Best , and I later learned that the building code did not allow internet over the phone line.When I left San Jose in 2002 there was only dial-up as an option in the two neighborhoods that I had lived in .
AT&amp;T had wired up much of the city , but the city council was n't letting them conduct business.RCN wired fiber up all over San Francisco , and how long was it before the city let them offer their services ? The problem in the U.S. is n't just the issue of the FCC 's limiting competition , it 's corrupt city councils and citizens too busy doing other things to care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Bad Kreuznacnh, Germany, in 2004, my apartment building didn't even allow dial-up.
This was something I couldn't even imagine, but the stupid phone plug was not compatible with any of the modems I purchased at Dr. Best, and I later learned that the building code did not allow internet over the phone line.When I left San Jose in 2002 there was only dial-up as an option in the two neighborhoods that I had lived in.
AT&amp;T had wired up much of the city, but the city council wasn't letting them conduct business.RCN wired fiber up all over San Francisco, and how long was it before the city let them offer their services?The problem in the U.S. isn't just the issue of the FCC's limiting competition, it's corrupt city councils and citizens too busy doing other things to care.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395394</id>
	<title>Re:It may suck now...</title>
	<author>able1234au</author>
	<datestamp>1267968240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The internet is the new economy.  Look at the value created by Google, Yahoo, Facebook, McAfee etc.<br> <br>

The internet "superhighway" needs the investment that the Freeways had post WWII.  The ROI will mean it pays for itself over and over.  It is similar to government investment in any infrastructure such as ports, airports etc.<br> <br>

And even better, the government just has to build the conditions for competition.  In the end the people will pay for it.  So whether you pay for it through tax dollars or directly to the companies, you will pay either way.  And the return on that payment will create jobs, opportunities, services and benefits we can't even imagine today.<br> <br>

The same return we saw with satellites.  Did anyone think GPS, mobile devices, live TV etc when the government was investing in getting to the Moon? Even if you go back as far as the settlement of the U.S., this was largely driven by governments, not companies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The internet is the new economy .
Look at the value created by Google , Yahoo , Facebook , McAfee etc .
The internet " superhighway " needs the investment that the Freeways had post WWII .
The ROI will mean it pays for itself over and over .
It is similar to government investment in any infrastructure such as ports , airports etc .
And even better , the government just has to build the conditions for competition .
In the end the people will pay for it .
So whether you pay for it through tax dollars or directly to the companies , you will pay either way .
And the return on that payment will create jobs , opportunities , services and benefits we ca n't even imagine today .
The same return we saw with satellites .
Did anyone think GPS , mobile devices , live TV etc when the government was investing in getting to the Moon ?
Even if you go back as far as the settlement of the U.S. , this was largely driven by governments , not companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The internet is the new economy.
Look at the value created by Google, Yahoo, Facebook, McAfee etc.
The internet "superhighway" needs the investment that the Freeways had post WWII.
The ROI will mean it pays for itself over and over.
It is similar to government investment in any infrastructure such as ports, airports etc.
And even better, the government just has to build the conditions for competition.
In the end the people will pay for it.
So whether you pay for it through tax dollars or directly to the companies, you will pay either way.
And the return on that payment will create jobs, opportunities, services and benefits we can't even imagine today.
The same return we saw with satellites.
Did anyone think GPS, mobile devices, live TV etc when the government was investing in getting to the Moon?
Even if you go back as far as the settlement of the U.S., this was largely driven by governments, not companies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392946</id>
	<title>Re:Message seems to be "Hey, we aren't last"</title>
	<author>JAlexoi</author>
	<datestamp>1267994940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There might be other issues. Take Italy as an example, they could build a good infra, but wherever they try to lay the damn cable, they stumble upon some x thousand year old settlement and down the drain goes the whole project. Ironically with all the references, the tel.co's don't crap money for these kind of projects. I bet Greece is has some similar problem, of the ancient past holding the future/progress back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There might be other issues .
Take Italy as an example , they could build a good infra , but wherever they try to lay the damn cable , they stumble upon some x thousand year old settlement and down the drain goes the whole project .
Ironically with all the references , the tel.co 's do n't crap money for these kind of projects .
I bet Greece is has some similar problem , of the ancient past holding the future/progress back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There might be other issues.
Take Italy as an example, they could build a good infra, but wherever they try to lay the damn cable, they stumble upon some x thousand year old settlement and down the drain goes the whole project.
Ironically with all the references, the tel.co's don't crap money for these kind of projects.
I bet Greece is has some similar problem, of the ancient past holding the future/progress back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392322</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1267990980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Texas, Grande's lowest speed service is <a href="http://www.grandecom.com/explore/internet/g\_force\_basic.php" title="grandecom.com">advertised as 384k/128k</a> [grandecom.com], yet speed tests and <a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/docsdiag/" title="ntlworld.com">docsdiag</a> [ntlworld.com] shows that it's really 450k/196k:

</p><p>QoS max downstream bandwidth         = 450000 bps
<br>
QoS max upstream bandwidth           = 196000 bps</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Texas , Grande 's lowest speed service is advertised as 384k/128k [ grandecom.com ] , yet speed tests and docsdiag [ ntlworld.com ] shows that it 's really 450k/196k : QoS max downstream bandwidth = 450000 bps QoS max upstream bandwidth = 196000 bps</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Texas, Grande's lowest speed service is advertised as 384k/128k [grandecom.com], yet speed tests and docsdiag [ntlworld.com] shows that it's really 450k/196k:

QoS max downstream bandwidth         = 450000 bps

QoS max upstream bandwidth           = 196000 bps</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</id>
	<title>This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267978260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The area of Sweden is about 450,000 square kilometers. The area of the state of California is about 425,000 square kilometers.
The number of <b>illegal immigrants</b> alone, in the US, is estimated at around 10-15 million, depending who you ask. The population of Sweden is about 9 million.
</p><p>
You can throw out all these comparisons of <i>broadband</i>, but when you get down to it, it turns out that <b>things are radically different over on this continent</b>. Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The area of Sweden is about 450,000 square kilometers .
The area of the state of California is about 425,000 square kilometers .
The number of illegal immigrants alone , in the US , is estimated at around 10-15 million , depending who you ask .
The population of Sweden is about 9 million .
You can throw out all these comparisons of broadband , but when you get down to it , it turns out that things are radically different over on this continent .
Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The area of Sweden is about 450,000 square kilometers.
The area of the state of California is about 425,000 square kilometers.
The number of illegal immigrants alone, in the US, is estimated at around 10-15 million, depending who you ask.
The population of Sweden is about 9 million.
You can throw out all these comparisons of broadband, but when you get down to it, it turns out that things are radically different over on this continent.
Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393562</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Nadaka</author>
	<datestamp>1267955700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US telecom companies were also granted billions of dollars by the US government to pay for a roll out of broadband infrastructure to nearly every American. Unfortunately non-compliance consequences were not specified, and the telecoms provided fat bonuses to shareholders instead of infrastructure investment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US telecom companies were also granted billions of dollars by the US government to pay for a roll out of broadband infrastructure to nearly every American .
Unfortunately non-compliance consequences were not specified , and the telecoms provided fat bonuses to shareholders instead of infrastructure investment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US telecom companies were also granted billions of dollars by the US government to pay for a roll out of broadband infrastructure to nearly every American.
Unfortunately non-compliance consequences were not specified, and the telecoms provided fat bonuses to shareholders instead of infrastructure investment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390262</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure what you want to point out with those numbers. What do illegal immigrants have to do with it? Yes, Sweden is only slightly larger than California - and has a fourth of the population. Does this make it easier or more difficult to reach higher broadband service levels in Sweden than in California?  The usual argument is that the US is so sparsely populated. Sweden of course has only about 2/3 of the population density of the US. But in the end, not only the general population density has to be factored in, but also how much the population is concentrated in certain areas... These kind of comparisons are really difficult to make. But surely just the area or the number of illegal immigrants are not really relevant...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior.</p></div><p>I thought he was talking about service quality, not moral?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure what you want to point out with those numbers .
What do illegal immigrants have to do with it ?
Yes , Sweden is only slightly larger than California - and has a fourth of the population .
Does this make it easier or more difficult to reach higher broadband service levels in Sweden than in California ?
The usual argument is that the US is so sparsely populated .
Sweden of course has only about 2/3 of the population density of the US .
But in the end , not only the general population density has to be factored in , but also how much the population is concentrated in certain areas... These kind of comparisons are really difficult to make .
But surely just the area or the number of illegal immigrants are not really relevant...Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior.I thought he was talking about service quality , not moral ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure what you want to point out with those numbers.
What do illegal immigrants have to do with it?
Yes, Sweden is only slightly larger than California - and has a fourth of the population.
Does this make it easier or more difficult to reach higher broadband service levels in Sweden than in California?
The usual argument is that the US is so sparsely populated.
Sweden of course has only about 2/3 of the population density of the US.
But in the end, not only the general population density has to be factored in, but also how much the population is concentrated in certain areas... These kind of comparisons are really difficult to make.
But surely just the area or the number of illegal immigrants are not really relevant...Just want to point that out before we start saying that one or the other is morally superior.I thought he was talking about service quality, not moral?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31408400</id>
	<title>Re:Missing the point; what is it?</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1268056440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US, and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or something</p></div></blockquote><p>Actually, I find it a very important point to make.  If the "100Mbps to the home for $20/month" internet service in Europe is only possible because nobody uses 0.1\% of it, then the "10Mbps for $30/month" in the US could be a better deal, really.</p><p>Personally, I've long held that it's not the SPEED of internet access that matters, within reason, but HOW CHEAP THE BASIC PLAN IS.  Great, 100Mbps for only $60/month...  What if grandma just needs to check her e-mail?  A $5/month dial-up plan is vast better for her, allowing a reasonable connection to the internet for the most people, for the least expense.  And sadly, it's always the fastest plans that are trumpeted, and we don't hear if there are similarly low-priced plans available in these other countries that are "beating" us...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US , and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or somethingActually , I find it a very important point to make .
If the " 100Mbps to the home for $ 20/month " internet service in Europe is only possible because nobody uses 0.1 \ % of it , then the " 10Mbps for $ 30/month " in the US could be a better deal , really.Personally , I 've long held that it 's not the SPEED of internet access that matters , within reason , but HOW CHEAP THE BASIC PLAN IS .
Great , 100Mbps for only $ 60/month... What if grandma just needs to check her e-mail ?
A $ 5/month dial-up plan is vast better for her , allowing a reasonable connection to the internet for the most people , for the least expense .
And sadly , it 's always the fastest plans that are trumpeted , and we do n't hear if there are similarly low-priced plans available in these other countries that are " beating " us.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US, and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or somethingActually, I find it a very important point to make.
If the "100Mbps to the home for $20/month" internet service in Europe is only possible because nobody uses 0.1\% of it, then the "10Mbps for $30/month" in the US could be a better deal, really.Personally, I've long held that it's not the SPEED of internet access that matters, within reason, but HOW CHEAP THE BASIC PLAN IS.
Great, 100Mbps for only $60/month...  What if grandma just needs to check her e-mail?
A $5/month dial-up plan is vast better for her, allowing a reasonable connection to the internet for the most people, for the least expense.
And sadly, it's always the fastest plans that are trumpeted, and we don't hear if there are similarly low-priced plans available in these other countries that are "beating" us...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390080</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1267978860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The area size really doesn't have anything to do with it. Population density does, but that <i>also</i> is almost half in the EU compared to US.</p><p>That combined with the fact that most of these companies aren't even multinationals, so they don't benefit from economics of scale or small taxes like the few major US ISP's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The area size really does n't have anything to do with it .
Population density does , but that also is almost half in the EU compared to US.That combined with the fact that most of these companies are n't even multinationals , so they do n't benefit from economics of scale or small taxes like the few major US ISP 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The area size really doesn't have anything to do with it.
Population density does, but that also is almost half in the EU compared to US.That combined with the fact that most of these companies aren't even multinationals, so they don't benefit from economics of scale or small taxes like the few major US ISP's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390416</id>
	<title>contrary to the article..</title>
	<author>EspressoFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1267980900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i thought asian countries such as japan and korea are the real pacesetters for broadband internet penetration/connectivity?</htmltext>
<tokenext>i thought asian countries such as japan and korea are the real pacesetters for broadband internet penetration/connectivity ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i thought asian countries such as japan and korea are the real pacesetters for broadband internet penetration/connectivity?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31400490</id>
	<title>In another related recent study...</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1268063100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Harvard thinks everyone that doesn't go to Harvard are idiots.</p><p>The idiots disagree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Harvard thinks everyone that does n't go to Harvard are idiots.The idiots disagree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Harvard thinks everyone that doesn't go to Harvard are idiots.The idiots disagree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395672</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1267969980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"'Would you like to avail the Comcast?' I don't even know what the F that means."</p><p>Consider yourself lucky.</p><p>Avail:</p><p>
&nbsp; to be of use or advantage : serve</p><p>I think The Comcast likes you.  Likes you very much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" 'Would you like to avail the Comcast ?
' I do n't even know what the F that means .
" Consider yourself lucky.Avail :   to be of use or advantage : serveI think The Comcast likes you .
Likes you very much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"'Would you like to avail the Comcast?
' I don't even know what the F that means.
"Consider yourself lucky.Avail:
  to be of use or advantage : serveI think The Comcast likes you.
Likes you very much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392278</id>
	<title>Missing the point; what is it?</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1267990740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is all a weird argument to make. Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US, and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or something, it is a strong demonstration of an important principle: government-enforced competition works.</p><p>As soon as the Bush gov't got into office, its FCC removed the line sharing mandate that allowed competition in the broadband market. Inversely, at the same time, the European Commission forced member countries to implement such competition. In France for instance it allowed a small company, Illiad, to innovate. While we had disastrously low penetration for Internet connectivity before 2002, the numbers shot up after that. They also introduced VoIP, free international calls, TV over IP, and so on. Another company started offering free WiFi to all its subscribers through any of its subscribers' "boxes", a feature that is now available on all ADSL providers. Every ADSL modem doubles as a WiFi router, and broadcasts a distinct ESSID for the "free wifi" network. You connect to the hotspot, log in with a user id / password, and you are then connected on a different VLAN than the owner's so you don't see what's happening on their home network, thankfully.</p><p>It might be that the situation in the US is not as bad as it's cracked out to be, but there's no doubt that it didn't have the same level of innovation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is all a weird argument to make .
Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US , and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or something , it is a strong demonstration of an important principle : government-enforced competition works.As soon as the Bush gov't got into office , its FCC removed the line sharing mandate that allowed competition in the broadband market .
Inversely , at the same time , the European Commission forced member countries to implement such competition .
In France for instance it allowed a small company , Illiad , to innovate .
While we had disastrously low penetration for Internet connectivity before 2002 , the numbers shot up after that .
They also introduced VoIP , free international calls , TV over IP , and so on .
Another company started offering free WiFi to all its subscribers through any of its subscribers ' " boxes " , a feature that is now available on all ADSL providers .
Every ADSL modem doubles as a WiFi router , and broadcasts a distinct ESSID for the " free wifi " network .
You connect to the hotspot , log in with a user id / password , and you are then connected on a different VLAN than the owner 's so you do n't see what 's happening on their home network , thankfully.It might be that the situation in the US is not as bad as it 's cracked out to be , but there 's no doubt that it did n't have the same level of innovation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is all a weird argument to make.
Broadband is much faster and cheaper in quite a few European countries than in the US, and while you can try to weasel your way out of it trying to paint it as unimportant or something, it is a strong demonstration of an important principle: government-enforced competition works.As soon as the Bush gov't got into office, its FCC removed the line sharing mandate that allowed competition in the broadband market.
Inversely, at the same time, the European Commission forced member countries to implement such competition.
In France for instance it allowed a small company, Illiad, to innovate.
While we had disastrously low penetration for Internet connectivity before 2002, the numbers shot up after that.
They also introduced VoIP, free international calls, TV over IP, and so on.
Another company started offering free WiFi to all its subscribers through any of its subscribers' "boxes", a feature that is now available on all ADSL providers.
Every ADSL modem doubles as a WiFi router, and broadcasts a distinct ESSID for the "free wifi" network.
You connect to the hotspot, log in with a user id / password, and you are then connected on a different VLAN than the owner's so you don't see what's happening on their home network, thankfully.It might be that the situation in the US is not as bad as it's cracked out to be, but there's no doubt that it didn't have the same level of innovation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393004</id>
	<title>The Boy Ain't Right</title>
	<author>b4upoo</author>
	<datestamp>1267995300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>        How much traffic the net carries is irrelevant. All that matters to the end user is the speed that he gets all the time. The US has slow speed net service and that is obvious to all. I'm on fiber optic cable and even that is a bit slow in my area at this time. It has never been fast by world standards and is worse than usual in my area right now. How about 100 megabyte per second service like they get in some places in Europe?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much traffic the net carries is irrelevant .
All that matters to the end user is the speed that he gets all the time .
The US has slow speed net service and that is obvious to all .
I 'm on fiber optic cable and even that is a bit slow in my area at this time .
It has never been fast by world standards and is worse than usual in my area right now .
How about 100 megabyte per second service like they get in some places in Europe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>        How much traffic the net carries is irrelevant.
All that matters to the end user is the speed that he gets all the time.
The US has slow speed net service and that is obvious to all.
I'm on fiber optic cable and even that is a bit slow in my area at this time.
It has never been fast by world standards and is worse than usual in my area right now.
How about 100 megabyte per second service like they get in some places in Europe?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</id>
	<title>Re:It may suck now...</title>
	<author>sunking2</author>
	<datestamp>1267980300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right, because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds. Nice waste of my tax dollars.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds .
Nice waste of my tax dollars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds.
Nice waste of my tax dollars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390194</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391936</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267989180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month. In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s).</p></div><p>I have AT&amp;T also. In fact, I have the service that's just one step up from what your parents have. We can call mine Level 2, and theirs Level 1. My bill is always $40/month. It never varies.</p><p>Your folks may wish to look into dslextreme.com. If I switched, I'd save about $10 a month, but I'm not dissatisfied with AT&amp;T.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $ 45/month .
In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s ) .I have AT&amp;T also .
In fact , I have the service that 's just one step up from what your parents have .
We can call mine Level 2 , and theirs Level 1 .
My bill is always $ 40/month .
It never varies.Your folks may wish to look into dslextreme.com .
If I switched , I 'd save about $ 10 a month , but I 'm not dissatisfied with AT&amp;T .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month.
In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s).I have AT&amp;T also.
In fact, I have the service that's just one step up from what your parents have.
We can call mine Level 2, and theirs Level 1.
My bill is always $40/month.
It never varies.Your folks may wish to look into dslextreme.com.
If I switched, I'd save about $10 a month, but I'm not dissatisfied with AT&amp;T.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390962</id>
	<title>Bullshit</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1267983960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are still areas of the US where you cannot get telephone service and eve some where you cannot get electricity so the article stating that internet speeds are not that slow is just plain - insert sneeze here - bullshit.  Japan has 1GB to the home and I'll wager that the Japanese are far more "connected" a society than we are.  I am also willing to bet that we pay substantially more for our service.  I am more apt to believe a Harvard study that is done with significantly less bias than the Globe &amp; Mail.  The Globe &amp; Mail certainly doesn't want to potentially piss off its advertising base whereas Harvard is more apt to get at the turth.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are still areas of the US where you can not get telephone service and eve some where you can not get electricity so the article stating that internet speeds are not that slow is just plain - insert sneeze here - bullshit .
Japan has 1GB to the home and I 'll wager that the Japanese are far more " connected " a society than we are .
I am also willing to bet that we pay substantially more for our service .
I am more apt to believe a Harvard study that is done with significantly less bias than the Globe &amp; Mail .
The Globe &amp; Mail certainly does n't want to potentially piss off its advertising base whereas Harvard is more apt to get at the turth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are still areas of the US where you cannot get telephone service and eve some where you cannot get electricity so the article stating that internet speeds are not that slow is just plain - insert sneeze here - bullshit.
Japan has 1GB to the home and I'll wager that the Japanese are far more "connected" a society than we are.
I am also willing to bet that we pay substantially more for our service.
I am more apt to believe a Harvard study that is done with significantly less bias than the Globe &amp; Mail.
The Globe &amp; Mail certainly doesn't want to potentially piss off its advertising base whereas Harvard is more apt to get at the turth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393938</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1267958400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Quite likely because the internet is shit on dial-up these days and you have to give up your whole day just to watch a couple videos on Youtube. So it really any surprise people don't use the internet when they don't have broadband? I guess if you're happy with falling behind the rest of the world and value the idiotic population (like birthers) enough to allow them to fall behind even more and grow then keep things as they are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quite likely because the internet is shit on dial-up these days and you have to give up your whole day just to watch a couple videos on Youtube .
So it really any surprise people do n't use the internet when they do n't have broadband ?
I guess if you 're happy with falling behind the rest of the world and value the idiotic population ( like birthers ) enough to allow them to fall behind even more and grow then keep things as they are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quite likely because the internet is shit on dial-up these days and you have to give up your whole day just to watch a couple videos on Youtube.
So it really any surprise people don't use the internet when they don't have broadband?
I guess if you're happy with falling behind the rest of the world and value the idiotic population (like birthers) enough to allow them to fall behind even more and grow then keep things as they are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394076</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>theantipop</author>
	<datestamp>1267959180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or if you haven't lost all sense of patience, you would realize you could "survive" on a 5mb connection.  Anyway, latency is a much bigger problem for me than bandwidth ever was past 2mb.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or if you have n't lost all sense of patience , you would realize you could " survive " on a 5mb connection .
Anyway , latency is a much bigger problem for me than bandwidth ever was past 2mb .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or if you haven't lost all sense of patience, you would realize you could "survive" on a 5mb connection.
Anyway, latency is a much bigger problem for me than bandwidth ever was past 2mb.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390802</id>
	<title>The Slashdot Paradigm</title>
	<author>RABarnes</author>
	<datestamp>1267983180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is clear that the premise of the posted article is false.  Broadband in the US is neither universally available nor of the quality of modernized countries.  The more basic problem is that Slashdot feels free to allow the post of the most absurd items at times - read it on Slashdot and you had better bring a load of salt with you - a grain will not do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is clear that the premise of the posted article is false .
Broadband in the US is neither universally available nor of the quality of modernized countries .
The more basic problem is that Slashdot feels free to allow the post of the most absurd items at times - read it on Slashdot and you had better bring a load of salt with you - a grain will not do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is clear that the premise of the posted article is false.
Broadband in the US is neither universally available nor of the quality of modernized countries.
The more basic problem is that Slashdot feels free to allow the post of the most absurd items at times - read it on Slashdot and you had better bring a load of salt with you - a grain will not do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390138</id>
	<title>One word: Politics.</title>
	<author>v(*\_*)vvvv</author>
	<datestamp>1267979220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In fact, Europe as a whole trails the United States severely in the deployment of next-generation broadband infrastructures. This performance gap is far less ambiguous, far more dramatic, far more accurately measured and far more meaningful than most of the measures of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>So infrastructure is where this article places meaning, but meaning is for the putter to place. I don't care about infrastructure. I care about the exact speeds I can get, and what options I have. I live in LA and they both suck.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>International comparisons almost always suffer from limited data and limited comparability, particularly comparisons of prices and speeds.</p></div><p>Bullshit. All this information is publicly available and advertised. Advertised speeds may be off, but this can be derived by looking into the infrastructure behind any service. I don't see anything limited about this information.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Regulation curtails economic freedom, which is why a very high standard of evidence is required to justify regulation.</p></div><p>Oh, how we would all love for this to be the case. Regulation is proportional to lobbying efforts, and the biases of those elected into public service. When has science ever played any role in politics?</p><p><b>If regulation was based on evidence, we would all be driving electric cars and weed would be legal.</b> </p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest. In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.</p></div><p>Bullshit. Any decrease in anything can be attributed to "overhead"!! And "quite modest" based on what?</p><p><b>Buying internet access is like buying a gallon of milk, and finding it to be half empty, or worse. No, its not half full, its half empty, and I want my gallon dammit!!!</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact , Europe as a whole trails the United States severely in the deployment of next-generation broadband infrastructures .
This performance gap is far less ambiguous , far more dramatic , far more accurately measured and far more meaningful than most of the measures of ...So infrastructure is where this article places meaning , but meaning is for the putter to place .
I do n't care about infrastructure .
I care about the exact speeds I can get , and what options I have .
I live in LA and they both suck.International comparisons almost always suffer from limited data and limited comparability , particularly comparisons of prices and speeds.Bullshit .
All this information is publicly available and advertised .
Advertised speeds may be off , but this can be derived by looking into the infrastructure behind any service .
I do n't see anything limited about this information.Regulation curtails economic freedom , which is why a very high standard of evidence is required to justify regulation.Oh , how we would all love for this to be the case .
Regulation is proportional to lobbying efforts , and the biases of those elected into public service .
When has science ever played any role in politics ? If regulation was based on evidence , we would all be driving electric cars and weed would be legal .
... In North America , this is largely a result of " network overhead , " and is quite modest .
In Europe , however , the variation is often dramatic.Bullshit .
Any decrease in anything can be attributed to " overhead " ! !
And " quite modest " based on what ? Buying internet access is like buying a gallon of milk , and finding it to be half empty , or worse .
No , its not half full , its half empty , and I want my gallon dammit ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact, Europe as a whole trails the United States severely in the deployment of next-generation broadband infrastructures.
This performance gap is far less ambiguous, far more dramatic, far more accurately measured and far more meaningful than most of the measures of ...So infrastructure is where this article places meaning, but meaning is for the putter to place.
I don't care about infrastructure.
I care about the exact speeds I can get, and what options I have.
I live in LA and they both suck.International comparisons almost always suffer from limited data and limited comparability, particularly comparisons of prices and speeds.Bullshit.
All this information is publicly available and advertised.
Advertised speeds may be off, but this can be derived by looking into the infrastructure behind any service.
I don't see anything limited about this information.Regulation curtails economic freedom, which is why a very high standard of evidence is required to justify regulation.Oh, how we would all love for this to be the case.
Regulation is proportional to lobbying efforts, and the biases of those elected into public service.
When has science ever played any role in politics?If regulation was based on evidence, we would all be driving electric cars and weed would be legal.
... In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest.
In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.Bullshit.
Any decrease in anything can be attributed to "overhead"!!
And "quite modest" based on what?Buying internet access is like buying a gallon of milk, and finding it to be half empty, or worse.
No, its not half full, its half empty, and I want my gallon dammit!!
!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389760</id>
	<title>No matter where you are, 'remote' = poor service</title>
	<author>Bearhouse</author>
	<datestamp>1267976820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder how much difference there really is between the various counties?<br>I've been in places in the Americas, Europe &amp; Asia where 'remote' could be as little as an hour's drive away from a big city.<br>Guess what?  No broadband, &amp; crappy cell coverage, (forget high bandwidth via cell).<br>Why? Normally simple economics.  Look at the cell maps; they all claim to cover '9x\%' of the population, conveniently forgetting that that's != to '9x' of the inhabitated surface.<br>Anyway, how much bandwidth do you really need?  Is it really a handicap if you cannot run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how much difference there really is between the various counties ? I 've been in places in the Americas , Europe &amp; Asia where 'remote ' could be as little as an hour 's drive away from a big city.Guess what ?
No broadband , &amp; crappy cell coverage , ( forget high bandwidth via cell ) .Why ?
Normally simple economics .
Look at the cell maps ; they all claim to cover '9x \ % ' of the population , conveniently forgetting that that 's ! = to '9x ' of the inhabitated surface.Anyway , how much bandwidth do you really need ?
Is it really a handicap if you can not run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how much difference there really is between the various counties?I've been in places in the Americas, Europe &amp; Asia where 'remote' could be as little as an hour's drive away from a big city.Guess what?
No broadband, &amp; crappy cell coverage, (forget high bandwidth via cell).Why?
Normally simple economics.
Look at the cell maps; they all claim to cover '9x\%' of the population, conveniently forgetting that that's != to '9x' of the inhabitated surface.Anyway, how much bandwidth do you really need?
Is it really a handicap if you cannot run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393896</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1267958100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, I'm on 3mbit/640kbit, you insensitive clod!</p><p>It's actually just barely enough for youtube HD streams.</p><p>I would say 1.5mbit/512kbit is the cutoff point. Below that, you have a severely degraded experience. Many sites won't work with less downstream bandwidth than that. Many games won't work with less upstream.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , I 'm on 3mbit/640kbit , you insensitive clod ! It 's actually just barely enough for youtube HD streams.I would say 1.5mbit/512kbit is the cutoff point .
Below that , you have a severely degraded experience .
Many sites wo n't work with less downstream bandwidth than that .
Many games wo n't work with less upstream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, I'm on 3mbit/640kbit, you insensitive clod!It's actually just barely enough for youtube HD streams.I would say 1.5mbit/512kbit is the cutoff point.
Below that, you have a severely degraded experience.
Many sites won't work with less downstream bandwidth than that.
Many games won't work with less upstream.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390350</id>
	<title>I'd like to know who paid...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267980480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...for this article, as:<br>"Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households." is NOT EVEN CLOSE to my experience with people in southern Ontario.</p><p>Nice how the article also quickly segues into businesses, which if they're of any size have, IME, had "broadband" for almost 2 decades and many even longer than that dependent upon what type of business they were in and number of locations, etc.  Hell, it was pretty much a necessity for businesses by the mid-90s.  Conversely there was NO residential broadband at all in my area until the last two years of the 90s, and then it was by a single regional monopoly carrier(cable) that has done nothing but raise rates while adding nearly zero value of the last decade.  Unfortunately once DSL started becoming widespread in the early 00s, it still offered me no alternative given the distance to the local CO, i.e. I'd be just about as well off with ISDN as DSL at that time.  Now matter have changed by DSL speeds are still lower than cable, leaving the only other option to wait around for Verizon to show up with fiber.</p><p>That said even with the availablity of some type of broadband in this residential area, I seriously doubt that it hit even 50\% penetration until 5y or so ago, and has, likely, continued a very tepid growth rate given what I can sniff out of the local network setup and other clues.</p><p>And going back to Ontario one of the areas I frequent, there are very LARGE areas which had ZERO alternative to dialup until a few years ago when an entrepreneurial spirit(teeny tiny local ISP) started offering wireless broadband in some of those areas, however the monthly costs, as expected, are HIGH, even for Canada.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...for this article , as : " Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households .
" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to my experience with people in southern Ontario.Nice how the article also quickly segues into businesses , which if they 're of any size have , IME , had " broadband " for almost 2 decades and many even longer than that dependent upon what type of business they were in and number of locations , etc .
Hell , it was pretty much a necessity for businesses by the mid-90s .
Conversely there was NO residential broadband at all in my area until the last two years of the 90s , and then it was by a single regional monopoly carrier ( cable ) that has done nothing but raise rates while adding nearly zero value of the last decade .
Unfortunately once DSL started becoming widespread in the early 00s , it still offered me no alternative given the distance to the local CO , i.e .
I 'd be just about as well off with ISDN as DSL at that time .
Now matter have changed by DSL speeds are still lower than cable , leaving the only other option to wait around for Verizon to show up with fiber.That said even with the availablity of some type of broadband in this residential area , I seriously doubt that it hit even 50 \ % penetration until 5y or so ago , and has , likely , continued a very tepid growth rate given what I can sniff out of the local network setup and other clues.And going back to Ontario one of the areas I frequent , there are very LARGE areas which had ZERO alternative to dialup until a few years ago when an entrepreneurial spirit ( teeny tiny local ISP ) started offering wireless broadband in some of those areas , however the monthly costs , as expected , are HIGH , even for Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...for this article, as:"Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households.
" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to my experience with people in southern Ontario.Nice how the article also quickly segues into businesses, which if they're of any size have, IME, had "broadband" for almost 2 decades and many even longer than that dependent upon what type of business they were in and number of locations, etc.
Hell, it was pretty much a necessity for businesses by the mid-90s.
Conversely there was NO residential broadband at all in my area until the last two years of the 90s, and then it was by a single regional monopoly carrier(cable) that has done nothing but raise rates while adding nearly zero value of the last decade.
Unfortunately once DSL started becoming widespread in the early 00s, it still offered me no alternative given the distance to the local CO, i.e.
I'd be just about as well off with ISDN as DSL at that time.
Now matter have changed by DSL speeds are still lower than cable, leaving the only other option to wait around for Verizon to show up with fiber.That said even with the availablity of some type of broadband in this residential area, I seriously doubt that it hit even 50\% penetration until 5y or so ago, and has, likely, continued a very tepid growth rate given what I can sniff out of the local network setup and other clues.And going back to Ontario one of the areas I frequent, there are very LARGE areas which had ZERO alternative to dialup until a few years ago when an entrepreneurial spirit(teeny tiny local ISP) started offering wireless broadband in some of those areas, however the monthly costs, as expected, are HIGH, even for Canada.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390204</id>
	<title>Message seems to be "Hey, we aren't last"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even the article itself says that compared to Europe, we trail only an "elite group" of (mostly northern) countries.</p><p>The problem with that, (if you're old enough to remember the sixties when the destruction of WW2 was recent enough to have much of Europe still like developing nations today where you couldn't trust the water), is that WE used to be the "elite".   That even some European countries have pulled way ahead when they used to be far behind is all the proof you want that we haven't done nearly as well as we could have.  (And as for Japan and South Korea pulling way ahead of us: both countries REALLY were developing nations when I was a kid.  People in shacks.  Widespread hunger.)</p><p>Secondly, it's not how well we're doing leveraging an old 1930's copper wire infrastructure that was paid off by 1960 by telephones, or what we're doing with a 1970's coax infrastructure paid off by 1990 by cable TV bills; it's how well we're doing at putting in a whole new infrastructure for the Internet itself - one that will wipe the other two away.</p><p>That is, where are we with fiber-to-the-home?  Ten years ago, it was reasonable to address voracious demand for the new service by piggybacking it on old infrastructures never designed for it, but were sitting there, already deployed.  That should have been matched by an aggressive build-out of the replacement infrastructure designed for the job.   It should be nearly done by now.</p><p>Alas, being able to send out TWO bills for the same infrastructure after dropping a few humming boxes on either end of the old wires, was far too lucrative to give up in favour of spending about 3 years of bills per house to run new lines, and government dropped the ball on regulating them to do that.</p><p>Whether just a few, or several, European countries are were just as sloppy, their regulators just as captured, as ours, does not mitigate the mistake; it just gives us some more company.  Big deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even the article itself says that compared to Europe , we trail only an " elite group " of ( mostly northern ) countries.The problem with that , ( if you 're old enough to remember the sixties when the destruction of WW2 was recent enough to have much of Europe still like developing nations today where you could n't trust the water ) , is that WE used to be the " elite " .
That even some European countries have pulled way ahead when they used to be far behind is all the proof you want that we have n't done nearly as well as we could have .
( And as for Japan and South Korea pulling way ahead of us : both countries REALLY were developing nations when I was a kid .
People in shacks .
Widespread hunger .
) Secondly , it 's not how well we 're doing leveraging an old 1930 's copper wire infrastructure that was paid off by 1960 by telephones , or what we 're doing with a 1970 's coax infrastructure paid off by 1990 by cable TV bills ; it 's how well we 're doing at putting in a whole new infrastructure for the Internet itself - one that will wipe the other two away.That is , where are we with fiber-to-the-home ?
Ten years ago , it was reasonable to address voracious demand for the new service by piggybacking it on old infrastructures never designed for it , but were sitting there , already deployed .
That should have been matched by an aggressive build-out of the replacement infrastructure designed for the job .
It should be nearly done by now.Alas , being able to send out TWO bills for the same infrastructure after dropping a few humming boxes on either end of the old wires , was far too lucrative to give up in favour of spending about 3 years of bills per house to run new lines , and government dropped the ball on regulating them to do that.Whether just a few , or several , European countries are were just as sloppy , their regulators just as captured , as ours , does not mitigate the mistake ; it just gives us some more company .
Big deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even the article itself says that compared to Europe, we trail only an "elite group" of (mostly northern) countries.The problem with that, (if you're old enough to remember the sixties when the destruction of WW2 was recent enough to have much of Europe still like developing nations today where you couldn't trust the water), is that WE used to be the "elite".
That even some European countries have pulled way ahead when they used to be far behind is all the proof you want that we haven't done nearly as well as we could have.
(And as for Japan and South Korea pulling way ahead of us: both countries REALLY were developing nations when I was a kid.
People in shacks.
Widespread hunger.
)Secondly, it's not how well we're doing leveraging an old 1930's copper wire infrastructure that was paid off by 1960 by telephones, or what we're doing with a 1970's coax infrastructure paid off by 1990 by cable TV bills; it's how well we're doing at putting in a whole new infrastructure for the Internet itself - one that will wipe the other two away.That is, where are we with fiber-to-the-home?
Ten years ago, it was reasonable to address voracious demand for the new service by piggybacking it on old infrastructures never designed for it, but were sitting there, already deployed.
That should have been matched by an aggressive build-out of the replacement infrastructure designed for the job.
It should be nearly done by now.Alas, being able to send out TWO bills for the same infrastructure after dropping a few humming boxes on either end of the old wires, was far too lucrative to give up in favour of spending about 3 years of bills per house to run new lines, and government dropped the ball on regulating them to do that.Whether just a few, or several, European countries are were just as sloppy, their regulators just as captured, as ours, does not mitigate the mistake; it just gives us some more company.
Big deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395980</id>
	<title>Re:It may suck now...</title>
	<author>toddestan</author>
	<datestamp>1267972020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, at least it would be building up infrastructure that would provide long term benefits for decades to come.  Sure beats buying people new cars and dishwashers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , at least it would be building up infrastructure that would provide long term benefits for decades to come .
Sure beats buying people new cars and dishwashers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, at least it would be building up infrastructure that would provide long term benefits for decades to come.
Sure beats buying people new cars and dishwashers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31396964</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>sonicmerlin</author>
	<datestamp>1267979520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a lie. The backhaul is extensive in America, and has received a great deal of investment from the telecoms.  Of course they price it out at monoplistic levels, but that's besides the point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a lie .
The backhaul is extensive in America , and has received a great deal of investment from the telecoms .
Of course they price it out at monoplistic levels , but that 's besides the point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a lie.
The backhaul is extensive in America, and has received a great deal of investment from the telecoms.
Of course they price it out at monoplistic levels, but that's besides the point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394296</id>
	<title>Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267960380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are some interesting points to raise regarding the EU vs the US.. The first is very obvious and that the US is a very different market to what exists in the EU. Having worked previously for a large international tier 1 we found that a large percentage of internet traffic would stay in the EU. There are several reasons for that but the biggest being that most of the languages that people speak natively are not english based. Secondly many of the 'big bandwidth sites' have local EU CDN presence. Having also spent huge amounts of time in North America the internet there seems to be much more of a mixed bag. Some providers have excellent interconnections to others while there are others which apparently refuse to peer together making connectivity between them dreadfully slow.. now I know that problem is not just isolated to the US but it seemed very apparent when browsing there, much more so than my experience of using the internet in Germany, France, Spain, UK, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, Austria... The classic statement of 'your isp is only as good as its slowest uplink'...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some interesting points to raise regarding the EU vs the US.. The first is very obvious and that the US is a very different market to what exists in the EU .
Having worked previously for a large international tier 1 we found that a large percentage of internet traffic would stay in the EU .
There are several reasons for that but the biggest being that most of the languages that people speak natively are not english based .
Secondly many of the 'big bandwidth sites ' have local EU CDN presence .
Having also spent huge amounts of time in North America the internet there seems to be much more of a mixed bag .
Some providers have excellent interconnections to others while there are others which apparently refuse to peer together making connectivity between them dreadfully slow.. now I know that problem is not just isolated to the US but it seemed very apparent when browsing there , much more so than my experience of using the internet in Germany , France , Spain , UK , Romania , Bulgaria , Italy , Austria... The classic statement of 'your isp is only as good as its slowest uplink'.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some interesting points to raise regarding the EU vs the US.. The first is very obvious and that the US is a very different market to what exists in the EU.
Having worked previously for a large international tier 1 we found that a large percentage of internet traffic would stay in the EU.
There are several reasons for that but the biggest being that most of the languages that people speak natively are not english based.
Secondly many of the 'big bandwidth sites' have local EU CDN presence.
Having also spent huge amounts of time in North America the internet there seems to be much more of a mixed bag.
Some providers have excellent interconnections to others while there are others which apparently refuse to peer together making connectivity between them dreadfully slow.. now I know that problem is not just isolated to the US but it seemed very apparent when browsing there, much more so than my experience of using the internet in Germany, France, Spain, UK, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, Austria... The classic statement of 'your isp is only as good as its slowest uplink'...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389886</id>
	<title>Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>the eric conspiracy</author>
	<datestamp>1267977600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The numbers for broadband penetration with active internet users in north america are 95+\%, and for businesses are over 98\%. That basically means everyone who actually uses the internet is on broadband.</p><p>At that point is there really much to discuss? Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The numbers for broadband penetration with active internet users in north america are 95 + \ % , and for businesses are over 98 \ % .
That basically means everyone who actually uses the internet is on broadband.At that point is there really much to discuss ?
Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The numbers for broadband penetration with active internet users in north america are 95+\%, and for businesses are over 98\%.
That basically means everyone who actually uses the internet is on broadband.At that point is there really much to discuss?
Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390208</id>
	<title>Typo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households...." <b>Is that US or Canadian dollars?</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households.... " Is that US or Canadian dollars ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Canada has a true broadband penetration rate of close to 70 per cent of households...." Is that US or Canadian dollars?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390676</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>jopsen</author>
	<datestamp>1267982400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The area size really doesn't have anything to do with it. Population density does, but that <i>also</i> is almost half in the EU compared to US.</p></div><p>Okay, maybe I'm not understanding you correctly... But population density is higher in EU than it is in the US... Just, check wikipedia...
<br>
Sweden have better broadband, because their government have created most of the infrastructure (the backbone)... Thus the natural monopoly is handled by an entity that cannot discriminate...<br>
Things are similar in Denmark, here major the larges telecommunication company have been forced to license it's lines to thirdparties at reasonable prices...<br>
So it's probably due to subsidization and regulation... In words that will scare Americans, it's good old fashion socialism...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The area size really does n't have anything to do with it .
Population density does , but that also is almost half in the EU compared to US.Okay , maybe I 'm not understanding you correctly... But population density is higher in EU than it is in the US... Just , check wikipedia.. . Sweden have better broadband , because their government have created most of the infrastructure ( the backbone ) ... Thus the natural monopoly is handled by an entity that can not discriminate.. . Things are similar in Denmark , here major the larges telecommunication company have been forced to license it 's lines to thirdparties at reasonable prices.. . So it 's probably due to subsidization and regulation... In words that will scare Americans , it 's good old fashion socialism... : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The area size really doesn't have anything to do with it.
Population density does, but that also is almost half in the EU compared to US.Okay, maybe I'm not understanding you correctly... But population density is higher in EU than it is in the US... Just, check wikipedia...

Sweden have better broadband, because their government have created most of the infrastructure (the backbone)... Thus the natural monopoly is handled by an entity that cannot discriminate...
Things are similar in Denmark, here major the larges telecommunication company have been forced to license it's lines to thirdparties at reasonable prices...
So it's probably due to subsidization and regulation... In words that will scare Americans, it's good old fashion socialism... :)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394322</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267960500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But hey, some here might sound like it&rsquo;s a fight about who has the biggest dick. But actually, we&rsquo;re with you, and hope you all get great bandwidth without caps. After all, it raises our torrent speed too!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But hey , some here might sound like it    s a fight about who has the biggest dick .
But actually , we    re with you , and hope you all get great bandwidth without caps .
After all , it raises our torrent speed too !
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But hey, some here might sound like it’s a fight about who has the biggest dick.
But actually, we’re with you, and hope you all get great bandwidth without caps.
After all, it raises our torrent speed too!
:D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391376</id>
	<title>Re:It may suck now...</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1267986180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, I don't think it's that important to fix but it seems like a very classic example of the US belief that free competition will always be superior, no matter how dysfunctional the market is. Oddly enough the phone system is one example where they finally invoked anti-trust, but all they did was create a bunch of mini-monopolies instead of one mega-monopoly. If an American reads that, they tend to think "ah, so they prop up unsuccessful businesses" but that's not what's happening.</p><p>For example, here the big telco (Telenor) has been forced to rent out their end user copper lines against a regulated fee so there's competition on the Internet service, other companies must rent/dig lines to the phone central, provide the DSL modems, customer support, control their own over-subscription, set their own policies with regards to IP addresses, servers, SLAs and so on. Other things can be instead of stimulus bills there can be prize money for users connected to the broadband network, not quite so many possibilities to cheat there. A consumer protection agency which makes sure that you actually get what they advertise, not just in a formal linguistic sense but in practical reality. For example you see very little of the word "unlimited" here, and "up to" means "what you'll normally get, but not guaranteed".</p><p>Another is health care, doesn't matter how dysfunctional that market is as long as the government isn't touching it. Or Microsoft's monopoly, at least the EU has tried to fight both the media player and browser monopoly though they're not doing too well against that giant. Just to take one mini-example, all the different cell phones had different chargers and they were grossly overcharging for the proprietary connector and used it as lock-in to keep you with the same brand. EU mandated a standard, and so it's a standard and you can now change phones all you like and use your old chargers. It's about generating competition through regulation, not destroying it. Of course you can do that too, but we have known very long that Soviet-style economy doesn't work, despite what the Americans think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I do n't think it 's that important to fix but it seems like a very classic example of the US belief that free competition will always be superior , no matter how dysfunctional the market is .
Oddly enough the phone system is one example where they finally invoked anti-trust , but all they did was create a bunch of mini-monopolies instead of one mega-monopoly .
If an American reads that , they tend to think " ah , so they prop up unsuccessful businesses " but that 's not what 's happening.For example , here the big telco ( Telenor ) has been forced to rent out their end user copper lines against a regulated fee so there 's competition on the Internet service , other companies must rent/dig lines to the phone central , provide the DSL modems , customer support , control their own over-subscription , set their own policies with regards to IP addresses , servers , SLAs and so on .
Other things can be instead of stimulus bills there can be prize money for users connected to the broadband network , not quite so many possibilities to cheat there .
A consumer protection agency which makes sure that you actually get what they advertise , not just in a formal linguistic sense but in practical reality .
For example you see very little of the word " unlimited " here , and " up to " means " what you 'll normally get , but not guaranteed " .Another is health care , does n't matter how dysfunctional that market is as long as the government is n't touching it .
Or Microsoft 's monopoly , at least the EU has tried to fight both the media player and browser monopoly though they 're not doing too well against that giant .
Just to take one mini-example , all the different cell phones had different chargers and they were grossly overcharging for the proprietary connector and used it as lock-in to keep you with the same brand .
EU mandated a standard , and so it 's a standard and you can now change phones all you like and use your old chargers .
It 's about generating competition through regulation , not destroying it .
Of course you can do that too , but we have known very long that Soviet-style economy does n't work , despite what the Americans think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I don't think it's that important to fix but it seems like a very classic example of the US belief that free competition will always be superior, no matter how dysfunctional the market is.
Oddly enough the phone system is one example where they finally invoked anti-trust, but all they did was create a bunch of mini-monopolies instead of one mega-monopoly.
If an American reads that, they tend to think "ah, so they prop up unsuccessful businesses" but that's not what's happening.For example, here the big telco (Telenor) has been forced to rent out their end user copper lines against a regulated fee so there's competition on the Internet service, other companies must rent/dig lines to the phone central, provide the DSL modems, customer support, control their own over-subscription, set their own policies with regards to IP addresses, servers, SLAs and so on.
Other things can be instead of stimulus bills there can be prize money for users connected to the broadband network, not quite so many possibilities to cheat there.
A consumer protection agency which makes sure that you actually get what they advertise, not just in a formal linguistic sense but in practical reality.
For example you see very little of the word "unlimited" here, and "up to" means "what you'll normally get, but not guaranteed".Another is health care, doesn't matter how dysfunctional that market is as long as the government isn't touching it.
Or Microsoft's monopoly, at least the EU has tried to fight both the media player and browser monopoly though they're not doing too well against that giant.
Just to take one mini-example, all the different cell phones had different chargers and they were grossly overcharging for the proprietary connector and used it as lock-in to keep you with the same brand.
EU mandated a standard, and so it's a standard and you can now change phones all you like and use your old chargers.
It's about generating competition through regulation, not destroying it.
Of course you can do that too, but we have known very long that Soviet-style economy doesn't work, despite what the Americans think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390744</id>
	<title>France, average of 3.2 Mbps ? LOL ... must be MB!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267982820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If akamai is not coping with French geeks starving for bandwidth and only deliverying an average of 3.2Mbps, it does not means that the internet access is 3.2Mbps here in France.</p><p>FYI, I got an average of 80Mb/s, 40Mb/s and less than 2ms to most french sites  (Mo =&gt; MB for those who likes 10MB/s).</p><p>ping to french hosted ping to google.com is about 12ms,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.uk is about 20ms and slashdot is about 130ms.<br>But ping to akamai.com is about 50ms and the same for lemonde.fr (a akamai customer) 40ms.</p><p>The only conclusion for me is : akamai is slow<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>By the way, I pay less than 30&euro; per month (unlimited bandwith, unlimited call to most countries, free wifi to millions of AP, more than 150 of TV chan, IPv6, tivo like boxe provided, etc).</p><p>If Bell want canadian citizens to think Canada is the best country for broadband, it is up to them. European, Korean &amp; Japanese knows where is the reality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If akamai is not coping with French geeks starving for bandwidth and only deliverying an average of 3.2Mbps , it does not means that the internet access is 3.2Mbps here in France.FYI , I got an average of 80Mb/s , 40Mb/s and less than 2ms to most french sites ( Mo = &gt; MB for those who likes 10MB/s ) .ping to french hosted ping to google.com is about 12ms , .uk is about 20ms and slashdot is about 130ms.But ping to akamai.com is about 50ms and the same for lemonde.fr ( a akamai customer ) 40ms.The only conclusion for me is : akamai is slow ; - ) By the way , I pay less than 30    per month ( unlimited bandwith , unlimited call to most countries , free wifi to millions of AP , more than 150 of TV chan , IPv6 , tivo like boxe provided , etc ) .If Bell want canadian citizens to think Canada is the best country for broadband , it is up to them .
European , Korean &amp; Japanese knows where is the reality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If akamai is not coping with French geeks starving for bandwidth and only deliverying an average of 3.2Mbps, it does not means that the internet access is 3.2Mbps here in France.FYI, I got an average of 80Mb/s, 40Mb/s and less than 2ms to most french sites  (Mo =&gt; MB for those who likes 10MB/s).ping to french hosted ping to google.com is about 12ms, .uk is about 20ms and slashdot is about 130ms.But ping to akamai.com is about 50ms and the same for lemonde.fr (a akamai customer) 40ms.The only conclusion for me is : akamai is slow ;-)By the way, I pay less than 30€ per month (unlimited bandwith, unlimited call to most countries, free wifi to millions of AP, more than 150 of TV chan, IPv6, tivo like boxe provided, etc).If Bell want canadian citizens to think Canada is the best country for broadband, it is up to them.
European, Korean &amp; Japanese knows where is the reality.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392602</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267992780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that the internet is very slow and very expensive in Canada.  The best internet is on the West Coast (closer you get to Asia...), and the East coast is downright pathetic.  I'm here on a 5/1 line that costs 80 dollars a month (with 400GB cap mind you).  Pathetic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that the internet is very slow and very expensive in Canada .
The best internet is on the West Coast ( closer you get to Asia... ) , and the East coast is downright pathetic .
I 'm here on a 5/1 line that costs 80 dollars a month ( with 400GB cap mind you ) .
Pathetic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that the internet is very slow and very expensive in Canada.
The best internet is on the West Coast (closer you get to Asia...), and the East coast is downright pathetic.
I'm here on a 5/1 line that costs 80 dollars a month (with 400GB cap mind you).
Pathetic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31397592</id>
	<title>Re:But why do we care?</title>
	<author>sonicmerlin</author>
	<datestamp>1267986300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're right.  Why bother being the first to the moon?  Who cares about being the first to construct a coast-to-coast interstate system?  Who cares about being the technological leader, or economic leader, or military leader, or any such things.  Oh and we had better stop acting like we're the best and most important in all the various trade negotiations.  And we had better be willing to give up our image of being the best for all those foreign geniuses who are fed up with their own countries and normally come to America to look for better lives.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right .
Why bother being the first to the moon ?
Who cares about being the first to construct a coast-to-coast interstate system ?
Who cares about being the technological leader , or economic leader , or military leader , or any such things .
Oh and we had better stop acting like we 're the best and most important in all the various trade negotiations .
And we had better be willing to give up our image of being the best for all those foreign geniuses who are fed up with their own countries and normally come to America to look for better lives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right.
Why bother being the first to the moon?
Who cares about being the first to construct a coast-to-coast interstate system?
Who cares about being the technological leader, or economic leader, or military leader, or any such things.
Oh and we had better stop acting like we're the best and most important in all the various trade negotiations.
And we had better be willing to give up our image of being the best for all those foreign geniuses who are fed up with their own countries and normally come to America to look for better lives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394664</id>
	<title>Re:No matter where you are, 'remote' = poor servic</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1267962600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's something I've always liked to ask people when it comes to Internet coverages in somewhere like, say, Japan. They talk about what you get in Tokyo, how amazing the net service is in an apartment building. Gee, there's good service available where there's a lot of people in a city of a lot of people. Ok fine, how is it in Ikuno? That's a little town of about 5000 up in the mountains. How's the broadband up there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's something I 've always liked to ask people when it comes to Internet coverages in somewhere like , say , Japan .
They talk about what you get in Tokyo , how amazing the net service is in an apartment building .
Gee , there 's good service available where there 's a lot of people in a city of a lot of people .
Ok fine , how is it in Ikuno ?
That 's a little town of about 5000 up in the mountains .
How 's the broadband up there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's something I've always liked to ask people when it comes to Internet coverages in somewhere like, say, Japan.
They talk about what you get in Tokyo, how amazing the net service is in an apartment building.
Gee, there's good service available where there's a lot of people in a city of a lot of people.
Ok fine, how is it in Ikuno?
That's a little town of about 5000 up in the mountains.
How's the broadband up there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390074</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267978800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Verizon FIOS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Verizon FIOS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Verizon FIOS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390456</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267981140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SLC, UT comcast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SLC , UT comcast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SLC, UT comcast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392032</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>cpicon92</author>
	<datestamp>1267989600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in Westchester County, New York, and my ISP is Verizon. I pay $60 a month for 25mbps up/down. I've tested both using a bunch of speed test websites and apparently that's actually what I get. Admittedly it's not as cheap as in Europe, but one must account for the huge infrastructure costs that come with providing fiber-to-the-home in sprawling suburbs. On top of all this I use my internet extensively and have never been capped, and never been reported to the **AA for torrenting, either. Whenever goes down they've always fixed it within 24 hours (even when a branch knocks the cable down right in front of my house).
So, the answer to your final question is more or less "yes," there are places in the US with decent home internet.

Now, time for me to complain about Europe. I'm not European, but I have relatives in France, and I lived there for a year. I've never had a good experience with the internet there. While I was living there I had DSL from "Wanadoo" that went about 50kb/s and claimed to be 20mb/s, it went down if you tried to torrent something and you'd have to restart their special router (to be fair, that was in the country). I also visit relatives in Tours, France frequently, where they have cable internet from Numericable, the internet almost always goes down at some point when I'm there (which is usually only for a week, mind you), and once it took them 4 days to fix it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Westchester County , New York , and my ISP is Verizon .
I pay $ 60 a month for 25mbps up/down .
I 've tested both using a bunch of speed test websites and apparently that 's actually what I get .
Admittedly it 's not as cheap as in Europe , but one must account for the huge infrastructure costs that come with providing fiber-to-the-home in sprawling suburbs .
On top of all this I use my internet extensively and have never been capped , and never been reported to the * * AA for torrenting , either .
Whenever goes down they 've always fixed it within 24 hours ( even when a branch knocks the cable down right in front of my house ) .
So , the answer to your final question is more or less " yes , " there are places in the US with decent home internet .
Now , time for me to complain about Europe .
I 'm not European , but I have relatives in France , and I lived there for a year .
I 've never had a good experience with the internet there .
While I was living there I had DSL from " Wanadoo " that went about 50kb/s and claimed to be 20mb/s , it went down if you tried to torrent something and you 'd have to restart their special router ( to be fair , that was in the country ) .
I also visit relatives in Tours , France frequently , where they have cable internet from Numericable , the internet almost always goes down at some point when I 'm there ( which is usually only for a week , mind you ) , and once it took them 4 days to fix it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Westchester County, New York, and my ISP is Verizon.
I pay $60 a month for 25mbps up/down.
I've tested both using a bunch of speed test websites and apparently that's actually what I get.
Admittedly it's not as cheap as in Europe, but one must account for the huge infrastructure costs that come with providing fiber-to-the-home in sprawling suburbs.
On top of all this I use my internet extensively and have never been capped, and never been reported to the **AA for torrenting, either.
Whenever goes down they've always fixed it within 24 hours (even when a branch knocks the cable down right in front of my house).
So, the answer to your final question is more or less "yes," there are places in the US with decent home internet.
Now, time for me to complain about Europe.
I'm not European, but I have relatives in France, and I lived there for a year.
I've never had a good experience with the internet there.
While I was living there I had DSL from "Wanadoo" that went about 50kb/s and claimed to be 20mb/s, it went down if you tried to torrent something and you'd have to restart their special router (to be fair, that was in the country).
I also visit relatives in Tours, France frequently, where they have cable internet from Numericable, the internet almost always goes down at some point when I'm there (which is usually only for a week, mind you), and once it took them 4 days to fix it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390146</id>
	<title>This article does not match my experience</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1267979220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nor, I suspect, that of many other slashdotters.</p><p>I expect this to be rapidly crowdsourced into the dust.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nor , I suspect , that of many other slashdotters.I expect this to be rapidly crowdsourced into the dust .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nor, I suspect, that of many other slashdotters.I expect this to be rapidly crowdsourced into the dust.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391782</id>
	<title>Re:Let's follow the money...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267988280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very true...  and I would love to see more competition in Canada.  I have been involved with broadband in Canada since 1995.</p><p>However, in Canada (NOT the US), almost anyone can get cable internet with a true 7-10 Mbit/sec download for around $45 or less per month.  DSL penetration and speeds are decent too and cases like the ones you read here in the US (512Kbit/sec down 128 up) are rare.   DSL rates are bumping up to true 25 Mbit/sec in most urban areas without an increase in fees.   We've had excellent access since the late 90's and fees have gone down, not up.  The networks have low latency and excellent QoS from the access points out to the border gateways.</p><p>Cable is leapfrogging rates as well and word is that 100 Mbit/sec is the next level.   DSL providers have similar plans.</p><p>Where Canada is deficient is in coverage is our large rural areas.  Access is limited to satellite and small player wireless (Canopy on either unregulated or some regulated frequencies).  Speed, quality, coverage, reliability is all very iffy and cost is high compared to urban access.  The providers load up their towers to the max: at 4 am you can get 7 Mbit/sec but at 8 pm you are lucky to get 48 K and error rates are high.</p><p>High speed wireless via the cellular system is spotty and expensive.  It is seldom possible to get the advertised data rate (21 Mbit/sec).</p><p>Individual rural counties and municipalities are putting broadband planning into effect but the planning is very dependent on local politics.  No overall plan exists to extend broadband to the rural areas.</p><p>I found the Harvard report to be very useful and mostly true but I did wonder about promise versus delivery on many of the European plans.  There is no denying that if the Harvard study numbers are true, then the technological advantage that Canadians have enjoyed for so long is mostly gone.</p><p>The CRTCs efforts to provide more competition with better penetration and prices look more like ham-fisted meddling than visionary planning.   The Federal government and the regulatory bodies are out of sync with much confusion as to policy direction (witness the recent approval of a foreign owned cell provider in direct violation of  ownership requirements).  Canada needs a cohesive, far-sighted plan from the Feds to move access speed and coverage forward.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very true... and I would love to see more competition in Canada .
I have been involved with broadband in Canada since 1995.However , in Canada ( NOT the US ) , almost anyone can get cable internet with a true 7-10 Mbit/sec download for around $ 45 or less per month .
DSL penetration and speeds are decent too and cases like the ones you read here in the US ( 512Kbit/sec down 128 up ) are rare .
DSL rates are bumping up to true 25 Mbit/sec in most urban areas without an increase in fees .
We 've had excellent access since the late 90 's and fees have gone down , not up .
The networks have low latency and excellent QoS from the access points out to the border gateways.Cable is leapfrogging rates as well and word is that 100 Mbit/sec is the next level .
DSL providers have similar plans.Where Canada is deficient is in coverage is our large rural areas .
Access is limited to satellite and small player wireless ( Canopy on either unregulated or some regulated frequencies ) .
Speed , quality , coverage , reliability is all very iffy and cost is high compared to urban access .
The providers load up their towers to the max : at 4 am you can get 7 Mbit/sec but at 8 pm you are lucky to get 48 K and error rates are high.High speed wireless via the cellular system is spotty and expensive .
It is seldom possible to get the advertised data rate ( 21 Mbit/sec ) .Individual rural counties and municipalities are putting broadband planning into effect but the planning is very dependent on local politics .
No overall plan exists to extend broadband to the rural areas.I found the Harvard report to be very useful and mostly true but I did wonder about promise versus delivery on many of the European plans .
There is no denying that if the Harvard study numbers are true , then the technological advantage that Canadians have enjoyed for so long is mostly gone.The CRTCs efforts to provide more competition with better penetration and prices look more like ham-fisted meddling than visionary planning .
The Federal government and the regulatory bodies are out of sync with much confusion as to policy direction ( witness the recent approval of a foreign owned cell provider in direct violation of ownership requirements ) .
Canada needs a cohesive , far-sighted plan from the Feds to move access speed and coverage forward .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very true...  and I would love to see more competition in Canada.
I have been involved with broadband in Canada since 1995.However, in Canada (NOT the US), almost anyone can get cable internet with a true 7-10 Mbit/sec download for around $45 or less per month.
DSL penetration and speeds are decent too and cases like the ones you read here in the US (512Kbit/sec down 128 up) are rare.
DSL rates are bumping up to true 25 Mbit/sec in most urban areas without an increase in fees.
We've had excellent access since the late 90's and fees have gone down, not up.
The networks have low latency and excellent QoS from the access points out to the border gateways.Cable is leapfrogging rates as well and word is that 100 Mbit/sec is the next level.
DSL providers have similar plans.Where Canada is deficient is in coverage is our large rural areas.
Access is limited to satellite and small player wireless (Canopy on either unregulated or some regulated frequencies).
Speed, quality, coverage, reliability is all very iffy and cost is high compared to urban access.
The providers load up their towers to the max: at 4 am you can get 7 Mbit/sec but at 8 pm you are lucky to get 48 K and error rates are high.High speed wireless via the cellular system is spotty and expensive.
It is seldom possible to get the advertised data rate (21 Mbit/sec).Individual rural counties and municipalities are putting broadband planning into effect but the planning is very dependent on local politics.
No overall plan exists to extend broadband to the rural areas.I found the Harvard report to be very useful and mostly true but I did wonder about promise versus delivery on many of the European plans.
There is no denying that if the Harvard study numbers are true, then the technological advantage that Canadians have enjoyed for so long is mostly gone.The CRTCs efforts to provide more competition with better penetration and prices look more like ham-fisted meddling than visionary planning.
The Federal government and the regulatory bodies are out of sync with much confusion as to policy direction (witness the recent approval of a foreign owned cell provider in direct violation of  ownership requirements).
Canada needs a cohesive, far-sighted plan from the Feds to move access speed and coverage forward.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395302</id>
	<title>This just in</title>
	<author>OrwellianLurker</author>
	<datestamp>1267967580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The USA has states larger than European countries.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The USA has states larger than European countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The USA has states larger than European countries.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394806</id>
	<title>Re:No matter where you are, 'remote' = poor servic</title>
	<author>Jazzbunny</author>
	<datestamp>1267963680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Meanwhile in Finland you can have <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/14/2229231/-1Mb-Broadband-Access-Becomes-Legal-Right-In-Finland" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">broadband connection</a> [slashdot.org] even if you live in a cave and cellphone works <a href="http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni\_map.pl?cc=fi&amp;net=te" title="gsmworld.com" rel="nofollow">everywhere.</a> [gsmworld.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile in Finland you can have broadband connection [ slashdot.org ] even if you live in a cave and cellphone works everywhere .
[ gsmworld.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile in Finland you can have broadband connection [slashdot.org] even if you live in a cave and cellphone works everywhere.
[gsmworld.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31398094</id>
	<title>Re:Numbers, numbers....</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1268079720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In Germany you expect at least five seconds of downtime per day. Why? Because Germany is about 95\% DSL with a mandatory disconnect after 24 hours. It also means that your actual connection speed depends on your distance to the DSLAM, which can lead to funny situations like us paying for 6 Mbit/s (the slowest plan) and being just twenty meters too far away, only getting 3 Mbit/s.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Germany you expect at least five seconds of downtime per day .
Why ? Because Germany is about 95 \ % DSL with a mandatory disconnect after 24 hours .
It also means that your actual connection speed depends on your distance to the DSLAM , which can lead to funny situations like us paying for 6 Mbit/s ( the slowest plan ) and being just twenty meters too far away , only getting 3 Mbit/s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Germany you expect at least five seconds of downtime per day.
Why? Because Germany is about 95\% DSL with a mandatory disconnect after 24 hours.
It also means that your actual connection speed depends on your distance to the DSLAM, which can lead to funny situations like us paying for 6 Mbit/s (the slowest plan) and being just twenty meters too far away, only getting 3 Mbit/s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391472</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>piltdownman84</author>
	<datestamp>1267986720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps. We actually get 1Mbps down.</p></div><p>

I have Shaw in Western Canada and its much of the same. I have a 15 Mbps speed, but I get speedtest results of around 2.  Where it gets really corrupt is that when I downgraded to a 7.5 Mbps plan<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... because I was only getting 2<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... my speedtest results were cut in half to just over 1 Mbps. Meaning their advertised rates aren't even their real upper limits.   This should be criminal.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in San Francisco , where Comcast advertises 8Mbps .
We actually get 1Mbps down .
I have Shaw in Western Canada and its much of the same .
I have a 15 Mbps speed , but I get speedtest results of around 2 .
Where it gets really corrupt is that when I downgraded to a 7.5 Mbps plan ... because I was only getting 2 ... my speedtest results were cut in half to just over 1 Mbps .
Meaning their advertised rates are n't even their real upper limits .
This should be criminal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps.
We actually get 1Mbps down.
I have Shaw in Western Canada and its much of the same.
I have a 15 Mbps speed, but I get speedtest results of around 2.
Where it gets really corrupt is that when I downgraded to a 7.5 Mbps plan ... because I was only getting 2 ... my speedtest results were cut in half to just over 1 Mbps.
Meaning their advertised rates aren't even their real upper limits.
This should be criminal.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390786</id>
	<title>Punditry != Analysis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267983060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>And now, I will tear apart the analysis that tears apart the Harvard analysis!<br> <br>

<i> Economists with extensive practical experience of telecommunications regulation have already rebutted the Berkman Center report that harshly assessed Canadian broadband performance, but it is also worth pointing out how much room for interpretation there is in broadband comparisons.</i> <br> <br>

Let me back up this point by just letting you know the research was refuted and not bother pointing out anyone who's refuted it.<br> <br>

<i>Residential broadband subscriptions, however, are taken at the household level, not at the individual level. And big businesses often connect several hundred employees with one &ldquo;line.&rdquo; The United States and Canada have 2.6 individuals per household, compared with 2.2 in Germany and some other European countries. Thus, if North American household sizes fell to German levels, and all households subscribed to broadband, the United Statse and Canada would have an additional seven lines per 100 persons...  Thus there could well be more employees &ldquo;connected&rdquo; in North America, although there might be fewer connections. </i> <br> <br>

So, wait, you're saying that there's more internet penetration in North America because in NA there are more people able to check their e-mail from work?<br> <br>

<i>And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans, according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic. Further, business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world. Sadly, there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage.</i> <br> <br>

In fact, there's so little effort to measure internet usage that I can just spout this line and pretend it's true without anyone having to refute it!<br> <br>

<i>Real-world speed testing efforts, while not perfect, tell a dramatically different story from comparisons of advertised speeds. Using real-world data on the amount of time taken to deliver files to end users from its global network of servers, Akamai Technologies reports that the average download speed for Canada was 4.2 megabits a second, against 3.2 Mbps for France, whereas the OECD finds that the average advertised speed from French ISPs was a staggering 51 Mbps.</i> <br> <br>

Ah, but were they testing from home servers, or from work, which is where most people check their email in Canada?<br> <br>

<i>Fifty-Mbps speeds (and their prices) are representative of user experience only where advanced fibre and cable networks are widely on offer. Although parts of France have developed impressively in this regard, such networks are accessible to at most 25 per cent of households, and the take-up of high-speed services is very low. </i> <br> <br>

As opposed to the, what, 2\% of North American households that get that kind of speed?<br> <br>

<i>Canada is likely soon to have a proportion substantially higher than France's of homes served by advanced fibre and cable networks that can deliver such speeds, thanks in part to the ubiquity of cable networks that are less costly to upgrade.</i> <br> <br>

Also, next year the Cubs will win the pennant.  It's gonna be the year!  They've been building such a strong team!<br> <br>

<i>Robert Crandall from the Brookings Institution has shown that in recent years, the capital intensity of the wireline operations of the incumbent North American phone companies has significantly exceeded that of their European counterparts. In 2008, Telus's wireline capital expenditures were about 25 per cent of its corresponding revenue, nearly double the ratio for many European incumbents. Likewise, the Wireless Intelligence database shows that between 2004 and 2009, the capital intensity of wireless operators has been 50 per cent higher in North America than in Western Europe.</i> <br> <br>

How do we know that North Americans get better internet?  Because they spend more money on it!  Or do they?<br> <br>

<i>So it is that in Ca</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>And now , I will tear apart the analysis that tears apart the Harvard analysis !
Economists with extensive practical experience of telecommunications regulation have already rebutted the Berkman Center report that harshly assessed Canadian broadband performance , but it is also worth pointing out how much room for interpretation there is in broadband comparisons .
Let me back up this point by just letting you know the research was refuted and not bother pointing out anyone who 's refuted it .
Residential broadband subscriptions , however , are taken at the household level , not at the individual level .
And big businesses often connect several hundred employees with one    line.    The United States and Canada have 2.6 individuals per household , compared with 2.2 in Germany and some other European countries .
Thus , if North American household sizes fell to German levels , and all households subscribed to broadband , the United Statse and Canada would have an additional seven lines per 100 persons... Thus there could well be more employees    connected    in North America , although there might be fewer connections .
So , wait , you 're saying that there 's more internet penetration in North America because in NA there are more people able to check their e-mail from work ?
And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans , according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic .
Further , business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world .
Sadly , there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage .
In fact , there 's so little effort to measure internet usage that I can just spout this line and pretend it 's true without anyone having to refute it !
Real-world speed testing efforts , while not perfect , tell a dramatically different story from comparisons of advertised speeds .
Using real-world data on the amount of time taken to deliver files to end users from its global network of servers , Akamai Technologies reports that the average download speed for Canada was 4.2 megabits a second , against 3.2 Mbps for France , whereas the OECD finds that the average advertised speed from French ISPs was a staggering 51 Mbps .
Ah , but were they testing from home servers , or from work , which is where most people check their email in Canada ?
Fifty-Mbps speeds ( and their prices ) are representative of user experience only where advanced fibre and cable networks are widely on offer .
Although parts of France have developed impressively in this regard , such networks are accessible to at most 25 per cent of households , and the take-up of high-speed services is very low .
As opposed to the , what , 2 \ % of North American households that get that kind of speed ?
Canada is likely soon to have a proportion substantially higher than France 's of homes served by advanced fibre and cable networks that can deliver such speeds , thanks in part to the ubiquity of cable networks that are less costly to upgrade .
Also , next year the Cubs will win the pennant .
It 's gon na be the year !
They 've been building such a strong team !
Robert Crandall from the Brookings Institution has shown that in recent years , the capital intensity of the wireline operations of the incumbent North American phone companies has significantly exceeded that of their European counterparts .
In 2008 , Telus 's wireline capital expenditures were about 25 per cent of its corresponding revenue , nearly double the ratio for many European incumbents .
Likewise , the Wireless Intelligence database shows that between 2004 and 2009 , the capital intensity of wireless operators has been 50 per cent higher in North America than in Western Europe .
How do we know that North Americans get better internet ?
Because they spend more money on it !
Or do they ?
So it is that in Ca</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And now, I will tear apart the analysis that tears apart the Harvard analysis!
Economists with extensive practical experience of telecommunications regulation have already rebutted the Berkman Center report that harshly assessed Canadian broadband performance, but it is also worth pointing out how much room for interpretation there is in broadband comparisons.
Let me back up this point by just letting you know the research was refuted and not bother pointing out anyone who's refuted it.
Residential broadband subscriptions, however, are taken at the household level, not at the individual level.
And big businesses often connect several hundred employees with one “line.” The United States and Canada have 2.6 individuals per household, compared with 2.2 in Germany and some other European countries.
Thus, if North American household sizes fell to German levels, and all households subscribed to broadband, the United Statse and Canada would have an additional seven lines per 100 persons...  Thus there could well be more employees “connected” in North America, although there might be fewer connections.
So, wait, you're saying that there's more internet penetration in North America because in NA there are more people able to check their e-mail from work?
And North Americans use the Internet somewhat more intensively than do Europeans, according to Cisco Systems data on Internet traffic.
Further, business Internet traffic in North America appears to be at levels substantially higher than elsewhere in the world.
Sadly, there is little systematic effort by international agencies to measure the intensity of Internet usage.
In fact, there's so little effort to measure internet usage that I can just spout this line and pretend it's true without anyone having to refute it!
Real-world speed testing efforts, while not perfect, tell a dramatically different story from comparisons of advertised speeds.
Using real-world data on the amount of time taken to deliver files to end users from its global network of servers, Akamai Technologies reports that the average download speed for Canada was 4.2 megabits a second, against 3.2 Mbps for France, whereas the OECD finds that the average advertised speed from French ISPs was a staggering 51 Mbps.
Ah, but were they testing from home servers, or from work, which is where most people check their email in Canada?
Fifty-Mbps speeds (and their prices) are representative of user experience only where advanced fibre and cable networks are widely on offer.
Although parts of France have developed impressively in this regard, such networks are accessible to at most 25 per cent of households, and the take-up of high-speed services is very low.
As opposed to the, what, 2\% of North American households that get that kind of speed?
Canada is likely soon to have a proportion substantially higher than France's of homes served by advanced fibre and cable networks that can deliver such speeds, thanks in part to the ubiquity of cable networks that are less costly to upgrade.
Also, next year the Cubs will win the pennant.
It's gonna be the year!
They've been building such a strong team!
Robert Crandall from the Brookings Institution has shown that in recent years, the capital intensity of the wireline operations of the incumbent North American phone companies has significantly exceeded that of their European counterparts.
In 2008, Telus's wireline capital expenditures were about 25 per cent of its corresponding revenue, nearly double the ratio for many European incumbents.
Likewise, the Wireless Intelligence database shows that between 2004 and 2009, the capital intensity of wireless operators has been 50 per cent higher in North America than in Western Europe.
How do we know that North Americans get better internet?
Because they spend more money on it!
Or do they?
So it is that in Ca</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392984</id>
	<title>Re:BS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267995180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><div><p> I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps. We actually get 1Mbps down. If you want the full 6Mbps, you have to live some place like San Mateo County, where they don't have insane oversubscription.</p></div></div><p>I too live in San Francisco and with the standard Comcast High Speed Internet package, I consistently get around 19 Mbps down and 4 Mbps up. I recently moved apartments and the speed has been consistent at both locations. If you're only getting 1Mbps, I would get someone out to look at it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in San Francisco , where Comcast advertises 8Mbps .
We actually get 1Mbps down .
If you want the full 6Mbps , you have to live some place like San Mateo County , where they do n't have insane oversubscription.I too live in San Francisco and with the standard Comcast High Speed Internet package , I consistently get around 19 Mbps down and 4 Mbps up .
I recently moved apartments and the speed has been consistent at both locations .
If you 're only getting 1Mbps , I would get someone out to look at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps.
We actually get 1Mbps down.
If you want the full 6Mbps, you have to live some place like San Mateo County, where they don't have insane oversubscription.I too live in San Francisco and with the standard Comcast High Speed Internet package, I consistently get around 19 Mbps down and 4 Mbps up.
I recently moved apartments and the speed has been consistent at both locations.
If you're only getting 1Mbps, I would get someone out to look at it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391278</id>
	<title>Re:Let's follow the money...</title>
	<author>Mashiki</author>
	<datestamp>1267985460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good point.  Despite that I like the G&amp;M to read, this is atypical BS from Bell.  I'd like to happily remind people that around 54\% of Canada's population(about 17m) lives between Windsor and Montreal, and are within 100mi of the US border.  Bell itself is a terrible company, right along with the cable providers(Rogers, Videotron, Cogeco, etc) in Canada.</p><p>I love my 60gb cap.  I really do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good point .
Despite that I like the G&amp;M to read , this is atypical BS from Bell .
I 'd like to happily remind people that around 54 \ % of Canada 's population ( about 17m ) lives between Windsor and Montreal , and are within 100mi of the US border .
Bell itself is a terrible company , right along with the cable providers ( Rogers , Videotron , Cogeco , etc ) in Canada.I love my 60gb cap .
I really do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good point.
Despite that I like the G&amp;M to read, this is atypical BS from Bell.
I'd like to happily remind people that around 54\% of Canada's population(about 17m) lives between Windsor and Montreal, and are within 100mi of the US border.
Bell itself is a terrible company, right along with the cable providers(Rogers, Videotron, Cogeco, etc) in Canada.I love my 60gb cap.
I really do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389526</id>
	<title>Right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267975440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Checklist:</p><p>[ ] Can I get 1 Gb/s to home in Canada? (I can in my home town Stockholm)<br>[ ] Is the true broadbrand penetration 98+\% like in most of the Europe?<br>[ ] Is the quality of line actually such that you get angry when the line goes down for a few minutes once per every 1-3 years?</p><p>Seeing all the complaints here on slashdot too, I really don't think it's the same. Often times I am even surprised how you put up with it.</p><p>Hell, even in the beginning of 2000 the competition was so bad that features that usually only came with business lines were offered to tech-savvy home users. Needed static ip's or a block of 32 or larger ip's? Ask for it and they gave.</p><p>I also seriously doubt North Americans using Internet more intensively. Even if I personally dislike it, P2P is pretty damn rampant and that takes  a lot of bandwidth. Also everyone uses YouTube and other high bandwidth sites (which obviously have local datacenters because of the demand)</p><p>What comes to business lines, I think they are quite equivalent to each other. Premium, fail-proof lines cost in both NA and EU. But as the home-lines in EU are reliable and theres no bullshit terms to deny such, a lot of businesses who directly aren't working on the Internet use those.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Checklist : [ ] Can I get 1 Gb/s to home in Canada ?
( I can in my home town Stockholm ) [ ] Is the true broadbrand penetration 98 + \ % like in most of the Europe ?
[ ] Is the quality of line actually such that you get angry when the line goes down for a few minutes once per every 1-3 years ? Seeing all the complaints here on slashdot too , I really do n't think it 's the same .
Often times I am even surprised how you put up with it.Hell , even in the beginning of 2000 the competition was so bad that features that usually only came with business lines were offered to tech-savvy home users .
Needed static ip 's or a block of 32 or larger ip 's ?
Ask for it and they gave.I also seriously doubt North Americans using Internet more intensively .
Even if I personally dislike it , P2P is pretty damn rampant and that takes a lot of bandwidth .
Also everyone uses YouTube and other high bandwidth sites ( which obviously have local datacenters because of the demand ) What comes to business lines , I think they are quite equivalent to each other .
Premium , fail-proof lines cost in both NA and EU .
But as the home-lines in EU are reliable and theres no bullshit terms to deny such , a lot of businesses who directly are n't working on the Internet use those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Checklist:[ ] Can I get 1 Gb/s to home in Canada?
(I can in my home town Stockholm)[ ] Is the true broadbrand penetration 98+\% like in most of the Europe?
[ ] Is the quality of line actually such that you get angry when the line goes down for a few minutes once per every 1-3 years?Seeing all the complaints here on slashdot too, I really don't think it's the same.
Often times I am even surprised how you put up with it.Hell, even in the beginning of 2000 the competition was so bad that features that usually only came with business lines were offered to tech-savvy home users.
Needed static ip's or a block of 32 or larger ip's?
Ask for it and they gave.I also seriously doubt North Americans using Internet more intensively.
Even if I personally dislike it, P2P is pretty damn rampant and that takes  a lot of bandwidth.
Also everyone uses YouTube and other high bandwidth sites (which obviously have local datacenters because of the demand)What comes to business lines, I think they are quite equivalent to each other.
Premium, fail-proof lines cost in both NA and EU.
But as the home-lines in EU are reliable and theres no bullshit terms to deny such, a lot of businesses who directly aren't working on the Internet use those.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392298</id>
	<title>agenda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267990920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is some bullshit to make people feel like our tax dollars aren't well spent on rural broadband projects and getting fast, internet access to everyone equally. The plain and simple truth is, Swedes can get 100mbit fiber for less than what I pay for 3mb or less DSL and a phone line. And even that took 15 years to get to me. Oh btw, Verizon, what did you do with those billions of dollars we gave you back in the 90's to lay fiber every where? Oh that's right. You shoved it up your ass and paid people like this to write articles about how the internet "isn't so bad" here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is some bullshit to make people feel like our tax dollars are n't well spent on rural broadband projects and getting fast , internet access to everyone equally .
The plain and simple truth is , Swedes can get 100mbit fiber for less than what I pay for 3mb or less DSL and a phone line .
And even that took 15 years to get to me .
Oh btw , Verizon , what did you do with those billions of dollars we gave you back in the 90 's to lay fiber every where ?
Oh that 's right .
You shoved it up your ass and paid people like this to write articles about how the internet " is n't so bad " here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is some bullshit to make people feel like our tax dollars aren't well spent on rural broadband projects and getting fast, internet access to everyone equally.
The plain and simple truth is, Swedes can get 100mbit fiber for less than what I pay for 3mb or less DSL and a phone line.
And even that took 15 years to get to me.
Oh btw, Verizon, what did you do with those billions of dollars we gave you back in the 90's to lay fiber every where?
Oh that's right.
You shoved it up your ass and paid people like this to write articles about how the internet "isn't so bad" here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389870</id>
	<title>It is my fault, I am pulling the average down.</title>
	<author>ScubaForLife</author>
	<datestamp>1267977480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live less than 20 miles from the center of a major metropolitan area and cannot get broadband, none, no option.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live less than 20 miles from the center of a major metropolitan area and can not get broadband , none , no option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live less than 20 miles from the center of a major metropolitan area and cannot get broadband, none, no option.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391254</id>
	<title>The article has some problems</title>
	<author>I\_Voter</author>
	<datestamp>1267985400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This isn't a detailed critique, I don't have the data or the time for that. However the article talks about a different family size in Germany, &amp; some other EU nations (2.2 individuals per household) versus (2.6 individuals per household) in the U.S. &amp; Canada. The article implies that this changes the lines per person somewhat. Disregarding the fact that Germany is an extreme  case, in the U.S. at least, family size increases at lower income levels, and lower income levels probably equate with lower internet use.  I think the article's argument is very weak.<br> <br>

One other observation: The article's complaints about broadband connectivity to employees, due to larger business size in the U.S.- seems reasonable to me. Most complaints on slashdot and elsewhere are from consumers and small businesses.  Of course I don't know how you would measure the bandwidth of Google with it's uTube.  That would seem to be a third category of bandwidth, neither household consumer or business employee.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't a detailed critique , I do n't have the data or the time for that .
However the article talks about a different family size in Germany , &amp; some other EU nations ( 2.2 individuals per household ) versus ( 2.6 individuals per household ) in the U.S. &amp; Canada .
The article implies that this changes the lines per person somewhat .
Disregarding the fact that Germany is an extreme case , in the U.S. at least , family size increases at lower income levels , and lower income levels probably equate with lower internet use .
I think the article 's argument is very weak .
One other observation : The article 's complaints about broadband connectivity to employees , due to larger business size in the U.S.- seems reasonable to me .
Most complaints on slashdot and elsewhere are from consumers and small businesses .
Of course I do n't know how you would measure the bandwidth of Google with it 's uTube .
That would seem to be a third category of bandwidth , neither household consumer or business employee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't a detailed critique, I don't have the data or the time for that.
However the article talks about a different family size in Germany, &amp; some other EU nations (2.2 individuals per household) versus (2.6 individuals per household) in the U.S. &amp; Canada.
The article implies that this changes the lines per person somewhat.
Disregarding the fact that Germany is an extreme  case, in the U.S. at least, family size increases at lower income levels, and lower income levels probably equate with lower internet use.
I think the article's argument is very weak.
One other observation: The article's complaints about broadband connectivity to employees, due to larger business size in the U.S.- seems reasonable to me.
Most complaints on slashdot and elsewhere are from consumers and small businesses.
Of course I don't know how you would measure the bandwidth of Google with it's uTube.
That would seem to be a third category of bandwidth, neither household consumer or business employee.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390776</id>
	<title>BAD ARTICLE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267983000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OH GEE i can go one gigabit for one hour BOY THAT WAS FAST<br>people that up articles like this should be shot<br>pissed on and have there gene's removed form humanity</p><p>YOUR attempt at obfuscation has FAILED</p><p>got it EPIC FAIL<br>caps , throttles , user based billing<br>all make highspeed USELESS today</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OH GEE i can go one gigabit for one hour BOY THAT WAS FASTpeople that up articles like this should be shotpissed on and have there gene 's removed form humanityYOUR attempt at obfuscation has FAILEDgot it EPIC FAILcaps , throttles , user based billingall make highspeed USELESS today</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OH GEE i can go one gigabit for one hour BOY THAT WAS FASTpeople that up articles like this should be shotpissed on and have there gene's removed form humanityYOUR attempt at obfuscation has FAILEDgot it EPIC FAILcaps , throttles , user based billingall make highspeed USELESS today</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391034</id>
	<title>make -j128</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267984260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Right, because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds. Nice waste of my tax dollars.</p></div><p>A lot of things tend to be needed in any country. You don't drop one to work on "more important" matters. You can solve problems in parallel you know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds .
Nice waste of my tax dollars.A lot of things tend to be needed in any country .
You do n't drop one to work on " more important " matters .
You can solve problems in parallel you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because of all the things ailing this country we need to tackle internet speeds.
Nice waste of my tax dollars.A lot of things tend to be needed in any country.
You don't drop one to work on "more important" matters.
You can solve problems in parallel you know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389916</id>
	<title>BS</title>
	<author>Tiro</author>
	<datestamp>1267977780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><i>Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds. In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest. In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.</i></p></div></blockquote><p> I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps. We actually get 1Mbps down. If you want the full 6Mbps, you have to live some place like San Mateo County, where they don't have insane oversubscription.</p><p>The Comcast drone I chatted with online asked me: "Would you like to avail the Comcast?" I don't even know what the F that means.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds .
In North America , this is largely a result of " network overhead , " and is quite modest .
In Europe , however , the variation is often dramatic .
I live in San Francisco , where Comcast advertises 8Mbps .
We actually get 1Mbps down .
If you want the full 6Mbps , you have to live some place like San Mateo County , where they do n't have insane oversubscription.The Comcast drone I chatted with online asked me : " Would you like to avail the Comcast ?
" I do n't even know what the F that means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds.
In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest.
In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.
I live in San Francisco, where Comcast advertises 8Mbps.
We actually get 1Mbps down.
If you want the full 6Mbps, you have to live some place like San Mateo County, where they don't have insane oversubscription.The Comcast drone I chatted with online asked me: "Would you like to avail the Comcast?
" I don't even know what the F that means.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393616</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267956180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services.</p><p>You're overlooking the fact that a lot (maybe even the majority) of Sweden's internet traffic is to the same servers as US internet traffic.</p><p>Backbone bandwidth is cheap and plentiful, because it's a competitive market. The issues are with the last mile, where there's little or no competition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services.You 're overlooking the fact that a lot ( maybe even the majority ) of Sweden 's internet traffic is to the same servers as US internet traffic.Backbone bandwidth is cheap and plentiful , because it 's a competitive market .
The issues are with the last mile , where there 's little or no competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services.You're overlooking the fact that a lot (maybe even the majority) of Sweden's internet traffic is to the same servers as US internet traffic.Backbone bandwidth is cheap and plentiful, because it's a competitive market.
The issues are with the last mile, where there's little or no competition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391522</id>
	<title>For what it's worth...</title>
	<author>Neoprofin</author>
	<datestamp>1267986900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having lived in various parts of Europe for the past year (albeit probably not in the finest of establishments) my biggest comment to this would be that it's understandable that almost all of the Euro comments here are coming from Sweden. I'm currently living in Belgium where all of the ISP are capped to the extent that everyone in the house is on a 56K quality connection for three weeks a month because it's provided by their landlord and they refuse to pay more. In Germany my experience was more familiar, uncapped but service varies greatly between what people are trying to get and what they actually have access to. By contrast I was in Bulgaria for two months and our internet access was frequently wireless only, shared access point between God knows how many customers but I guess it's still broadband!<br> <br>
Sweden would do well you enjoy their connectivity, because it's not the same story everywhere else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having lived in various parts of Europe for the past year ( albeit probably not in the finest of establishments ) my biggest comment to this would be that it 's understandable that almost all of the Euro comments here are coming from Sweden .
I 'm currently living in Belgium where all of the ISP are capped to the extent that everyone in the house is on a 56K quality connection for three weeks a month because it 's provided by their landlord and they refuse to pay more .
In Germany my experience was more familiar , uncapped but service varies greatly between what people are trying to get and what they actually have access to .
By contrast I was in Bulgaria for two months and our internet access was frequently wireless only , shared access point between God knows how many customers but I guess it 's still broadband !
Sweden would do well you enjoy their connectivity , because it 's not the same story everywhere else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having lived in various parts of Europe for the past year (albeit probably not in the finest of establishments) my biggest comment to this would be that it's understandable that almost all of the Euro comments here are coming from Sweden.
I'm currently living in Belgium where all of the ISP are capped to the extent that everyone in the house is on a 56K quality connection for three weeks a month because it's provided by their landlord and they refuse to pay more.
In Germany my experience was more familiar, uncapped but service varies greatly between what people are trying to get and what they actually have access to.
By contrast I was in Bulgaria for two months and our internet access was frequently wireless only, shared access point between God knows how many customers but I guess it's still broadband!
Sweden would do well you enjoy their connectivity, because it's not the same story everywhere else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390222</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Also, when you have free time in California you can enjoy the sun, hit the beach, surf the ocean, or whatever else it is that young, happy people do outside. But what are you going to do when you're stuck inside during the long, cold Scandinavian winter? Before the Internet, Scandinavian kids used to get so bored, and thus angry, that they would do crazy stuff like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayhem\_(band)" title="wikipedia.org">this</a> [wikipedia.org]. Now fast Internet access makes life bearable in the inhospitable north. Of course everyone wants it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , when you have free time in California you can enjoy the sun , hit the beach , surf the ocean , or whatever else it is that young , happy people do outside .
But what are you going to do when you 're stuck inside during the long , cold Scandinavian winter ?
Before the Internet , Scandinavian kids used to get so bored , and thus angry , that they would do crazy stuff like this [ wikipedia.org ] .
Now fast Internet access makes life bearable in the inhospitable north .
Of course everyone wants it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, when you have free time in California you can enjoy the sun, hit the beach, surf the ocean, or whatever else it is that young, happy people do outside.
But what are you going to do when you're stuck inside during the long, cold Scandinavian winter?
Before the Internet, Scandinavian kids used to get so bored, and thus angry, that they would do crazy stuff like this [wikipedia.org].
Now fast Internet access makes life bearable in the inhospitable north.
Of course everyone wants it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391922</id>
	<title>Broadband is that slow</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267989120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did anyone read the reports?  I appreciate the links, but broadband access in the US and Canada sucks. The problem is that broadband in Europe is more focused on upgradability, mobility and a co-operative competition than the broadband in the US.  AT&amp;T and other US companies providing broadband services have engaged in illegal business practices that in Europe would get them fined.  In addition the United States faces competition between various network systems that are incompatible.  Canada does a better job of providing compatible wired communications and a crap job of providing wireless communications.  Providers in the US are so busy trying to screw each other and the consumer over to put a couple more bucks in their pockets that, well, it makes the US look a lot like a street vendor selling fake Rolexes in the world of broadband technology.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did anyone read the reports ?
I appreciate the links , but broadband access in the US and Canada sucks .
The problem is that broadband in Europe is more focused on upgradability , mobility and a co-operative competition than the broadband in the US .
AT&amp;T and other US companies providing broadband services have engaged in illegal business practices that in Europe would get them fined .
In addition the United States faces competition between various network systems that are incompatible .
Canada does a better job of providing compatible wired communications and a crap job of providing wireless communications .
Providers in the US are so busy trying to screw each other and the consumer over to put a couple more bucks in their pockets that , well , it makes the US look a lot like a street vendor selling fake Rolexes in the world of broadband technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did anyone read the reports?
I appreciate the links, but broadband access in the US and Canada sucks.
The problem is that broadband in Europe is more focused on upgradability, mobility and a co-operative competition than the broadband in the US.
AT&amp;T and other US companies providing broadband services have engaged in illegal business practices that in Europe would get them fined.
In addition the United States faces competition between various network systems that are incompatible.
Canada does a better job of providing compatible wired communications and a crap job of providing wireless communications.
Providers in the US are so busy trying to screw each other and the consumer over to put a couple more bucks in their pockets that, well, it makes the US look a lot like a street vendor selling fake Rolexes in the world of broadband technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390198</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1267979520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lumping Canada and the US together doesn't work.  Canada is WAY ahead of the US in terms of broadband penetration, always has been, and will likely continue to maintain the lead over the next decade.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lumping Canada and the US together does n't work .
Canada is WAY ahead of the US in terms of broadband penetration , always has been , and will likely continue to maintain the lead over the next decade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lumping Canada and the US together doesn't work.
Canada is WAY ahead of the US in terms of broadband penetration, always has been, and will likely continue to maintain the lead over the next decade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389990</id>
	<title>What a load of... chessnuts.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267978320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fail to see how internet speed relates to internet usage, after all there's still quite a few americans intensively surfing on analog modems.
Must sure take a long time to load slashdot with that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how internet speed relates to internet usage , after all there 's still quite a few americans intensively surfing on analog modems .
Must sure take a long time to load slashdot with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how internet speed relates to internet usage, after all there's still quite a few americans intensively surfing on analog modems.
Must sure take a long time to load slashdot with that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390224</id>
	<title>Flawed comparison</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In France I had 3+ Mbit/s unlimited internet + unlimited nationwide calling for free, for 30E in 2006.<br>Right now, basically, in Washington DC, my ISP just upped my 1Mbit/s service price from $20/month to $35/month, at the end of the initial 1 year subscription period.<br>And I can't seem to find cheaper...<br>Yes, I can have 40Mbit/s or faster for $45+ dollars  / month or TriplePlay or similar crap, but:<br>- I use net for Skype, e-mail, watching some online videos on new sites. I don't need 50Mbit/s for that<br>- I don't need 200+ HD channels, I'm fine with on-the air TVs<br>- I use my cell phone for calling, no home phone please</p><p>Fiber optic internet penetration may be higher than in Europe but you can get it only coupled to tons of crap that personally I don't need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In France I had 3 + Mbit/s unlimited internet + unlimited nationwide calling for free , for 30E in 2006.Right now , basically , in Washington DC , my ISP just upped my 1Mbit/s service price from $ 20/month to $ 35/month , at the end of the initial 1 year subscription period.And I ca n't seem to find cheaper...Yes , I can have 40Mbit/s or faster for $ 45 + dollars / month or TriplePlay or similar crap , but : - I use net for Skype , e-mail , watching some online videos on new sites .
I do n't need 50Mbit/s for that- I do n't need 200 + HD channels , I 'm fine with on-the air TVs- I use my cell phone for calling , no home phone pleaseFiber optic internet penetration may be higher than in Europe but you can get it only coupled to tons of crap that personally I do n't need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In France I had 3+ Mbit/s unlimited internet + unlimited nationwide calling for free, for 30E in 2006.Right now, basically, in Washington DC, my ISP just upped my 1Mbit/s service price from $20/month to $35/month, at the end of the initial 1 year subscription period.And I can't seem to find cheaper...Yes, I can have 40Mbit/s or faster for $45+ dollars  / month or TriplePlay or similar crap, but:- I use net for Skype, e-mail, watching some online videos on new sites.
I don't need 50Mbit/s for that- I don't need 200+ HD channels, I'm fine with on-the air TVs- I use my cell phone for calling, no home phone pleaseFiber optic internet penetration may be higher than in Europe but you can get it only coupled to tons of crap that personally I don't need.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389734</id>
	<title>Ever-more proof that Europe is a Potemkin Village!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267976700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet another bullshit statistic Euro-socialists like to throw in our faces bites the dust!  (<a href="http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28798.msg536019#msg536019" title="freetalklive.com" rel="nofollow"> <b>Click here for some others</b><nobr> <wbr></nobr></a> [freetalklive.com]...)  USA isn't perfect, but it's still one of the freest economies in the world.</p><p>Socialism / liberal democracy in Europe is a failure, as it is all over the world.  Any European countries that are doing OK are wealthy not because of socialism, but in spite of it, and at the cost of a massive demographic collapse.  You can't reject the immutable laws of economics, which all point to free market capitalism as the ideal, any more than you can reject the laws of physics!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet another bullshit statistic Euro-socialists like to throw in our faces bites the dust !
( Click here for some others [ freetalklive.com ] ... ) USA is n't perfect , but it 's still one of the freest economies in the world.Socialism / liberal democracy in Europe is a failure , as it is all over the world .
Any European countries that are doing OK are wealthy not because of socialism , but in spite of it , and at the cost of a massive demographic collapse .
You ca n't reject the immutable laws of economics , which all point to free market capitalism as the ideal , any more than you can reject the laws of physics !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet another bullshit statistic Euro-socialists like to throw in our faces bites the dust!
( Click here for some others  [freetalklive.com]...)  USA isn't perfect, but it's still one of the freest economies in the world.Socialism / liberal democracy in Europe is a failure, as it is all over the world.
Any European countries that are doing OK are wealthy not because of socialism, but in spite of it, and at the cost of a massive demographic collapse.
You can't reject the immutable laws of economics, which all point to free market capitalism as the ideal, any more than you can reject the laws of physics!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393032</id>
	<title>Re:Punditry != Analysis</title>
	<author>JAlexoi</author>
	<datestamp>1267995480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ironically to the whole report, I can get a FttP for USD$30!!!!! Full speed, both ways. In fact, I have a Ethernet cable coming up from the basement, since all communications are over FttB, except DSL obviously.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically to the whole report , I can get a FttP for USD $ 30 ! ! ! ! !
Full speed , both ways .
In fact , I have a Ethernet cable coming up from the basement , since all communications are over FttB , except DSL obviously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically to the whole report, I can get a FttP for USD$30!!!!!
Full speed, both ways.
In fact, I have a Ethernet cable coming up from the basement, since all communications are over FttB, except DSL obviously.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392296</id>
	<title>Awesome!</title>
	<author>jon3k</author>
	<datestamp>1267990860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You've got 1Gb/s fiber and you still get the same lousy 5mb/s from every website just like the rest of the world.  Congratulations on building out a fiber infrastructure at today's costs 10 years before you need it!</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've got 1Gb/s fiber and you still get the same lousy 5mb/s from every website just like the rest of the world .
Congratulations on building out a fiber infrastructure at today 's costs 10 years before you need it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've got 1Gb/s fiber and you still get the same lousy 5mb/s from every website just like the rest of the world.
Congratulations on building out a fiber infrastructure at today's costs 10 years before you need it!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31396686</id>
	<title>Are Europeans spending too much on bandwidth?</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1267977000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you see somebody like a Germany plunging from 80+ million now to barely 50 million by 2100, every claim of European cultural superiority must be taken with a grain of salt.  How much of a socially superior state can you really have, when birth rates are so low that the population is going to go puff into a demographic bomb over the next century as birth rates on that side of the pond continue to plummet.  It baffles the mind that Europeans, for everything they do in terms of social services, have not figured out how to make babies.  If Europeans have created the perfect state, why is it that no one ever there has kids?  And, what kind of Europe is there going to be when 25\% of it is radically Islamic?  Viewed in that context, Europe right now is just tech host for someday having 100TB / sec calls to prayer some decades from now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you see somebody like a Germany plunging from 80 + million now to barely 50 million by 2100 , every claim of European cultural superiority must be taken with a grain of salt .
How much of a socially superior state can you really have , when birth rates are so low that the population is going to go puff into a demographic bomb over the next century as birth rates on that side of the pond continue to plummet .
It baffles the mind that Europeans , for everything they do in terms of social services , have not figured out how to make babies .
If Europeans have created the perfect state , why is it that no one ever there has kids ?
And , what kind of Europe is there going to be when 25 \ % of it is radically Islamic ?
Viewed in that context , Europe right now is just tech host for someday having 100TB / sec calls to prayer some decades from now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you see somebody like a Germany plunging from 80+ million now to barely 50 million by 2100, every claim of European cultural superiority must be taken with a grain of salt.
How much of a socially superior state can you really have, when birth rates are so low that the population is going to go puff into a demographic bomb over the next century as birth rates on that side of the pond continue to plummet.
It baffles the mind that Europeans, for everything they do in terms of social services, have not figured out how to make babies.
If Europeans have created the perfect state, why is it that no one ever there has kids?
And, what kind of Europe is there going to be when 25\% of it is radically Islamic?
Viewed in that context, Europe right now is just tech host for someday having 100TB / sec calls to prayer some decades from now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390624</id>
	<title>Weasel words are bullshit</title>
	<author>dingen</author>
	<datestamp>1267982100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Instead, we see comparisons of advertised speeds and "price per advertised megabit," which are especially misleading. Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds. In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest. In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.</p></div><p>What a weasily way to make it sound like internet connections in the US are not so bad. The reason why advertised speeds aren't so different from actual speeds in the US, is because the offer is extremely low. If you have an advertised 3 Mbit connection in the US and in reality you get 2 Mbit, that's only a 1 Mbit difference. But if you have a line for the same monthly fee in Europe, advertised as 20 Mbit and you actually get 12 Mbit, there's suddenly a whopping 8 Mbit difference. So according to these folks, the 20 Mbit line is a lot worse than the 3 Mbit line.</p><p>Lies, damn lies and statistics, right.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead , we see comparisons of advertised speeds and " price per advertised megabit , " which are especially misleading .
Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds .
In North America , this is largely a result of " network overhead , " and is quite modest .
In Europe , however , the variation is often dramatic.What a weasily way to make it sound like internet connections in the US are not so bad .
The reason why advertised speeds are n't so different from actual speeds in the US , is because the offer is extremely low .
If you have an advertised 3 Mbit connection in the US and in reality you get 2 Mbit , that 's only a 1 Mbit difference .
But if you have a line for the same monthly fee in Europe , advertised as 20 Mbit and you actually get 12 Mbit , there 's suddenly a whopping 8 Mbit difference .
So according to these folks , the 20 Mbit line is a lot worse than the 3 Mbit line.Lies , damn lies and statistics , right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead, we see comparisons of advertised speeds and "price per advertised megabit," which are especially misleading.
Advertised broadband speeds vary from actual speeds.
In North America, this is largely a result of "network overhead," and is quite modest.
In Europe, however, the variation is often dramatic.What a weasily way to make it sound like internet connections in the US are not so bad.
The reason why advertised speeds aren't so different from actual speeds in the US, is because the offer is extremely low.
If you have an advertised 3 Mbit connection in the US and in reality you get 2 Mbit, that's only a 1 Mbit difference.
But if you have a line for the same monthly fee in Europe, advertised as 20 Mbit and you actually get 12 Mbit, there's suddenly a whopping 8 Mbit difference.
So according to these folks, the 20 Mbit line is a lot worse than the 3 Mbit line.Lies, damn lies and statistics, right.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393858</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1267957920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They're already running fiber across the US to connect up each coast and everyone's running cables across the ocean which is logically the most expensive thing to do.
<br> <br>
Huge chunks of fiber are already running over some of the most rural areas but they're just not connecting up those people in between coasts. It's not like they have to run cable from New York to Kansas to give someone in Kansas broadband.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're already running fiber across the US to connect up each coast and everyone 's running cables across the ocean which is logically the most expensive thing to do .
Huge chunks of fiber are already running over some of the most rural areas but they 're just not connecting up those people in between coasts .
It 's not like they have to run cable from New York to Kansas to give someone in Kansas broadband .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're already running fiber across the US to connect up each coast and everyone's running cables across the ocean which is logically the most expensive thing to do.
Huge chunks of fiber are already running over some of the most rural areas but they're just not connecting up those people in between coasts.
It's not like they have to run cable from New York to Kansas to give someone in Kansas broadband.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31394758</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>rHBa</author>
	<datestamp>1267963140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>-1 Troll!?!<br>
<br>
I'm sorry I don't have any mod points to correct the obvious jealousy that caused your -1.<p><div class="quote"><p>Before the Internet, Scandinavian kids used to get so bored, and thus angry, that they would do crazy stuff like this</p></div><p>
And since the internet American kids still do stuff like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackass\_(TV\_series)" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">this</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>-1 Troll ! ? !
I 'm sorry I do n't have any mod points to correct the obvious jealousy that caused your -1.Before the Internet , Scandinavian kids used to get so bored , and thus angry , that they would do crazy stuff like this And since the internet American kids still do stuff like this [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-1 Troll!?!
I'm sorry I don't have any mod points to correct the obvious jealousy that caused your -1.Before the Internet, Scandinavian kids used to get so bored, and thus angry, that they would do crazy stuff like this
And since the internet American kids still do stuff like this [wikipedia.org].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390600</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>roman\_mir</author>
	<datestamp>1267981980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see yours and I raise you my anecdote.  I am actually in Germany, Baden Baden right now, lived here for a few months, came from Toronto.  We live on sort of a mountain here though, and it's a nice place and all, but I cannot get anything except one single DSL provider, don't want to mention their name, but they are THE telecom in this country.  Can't get cable, satellite would still only allow me the downstream.  I got mobile actually, but again, where we are it doesn't work well, it works better downtown.</p><p>I don't know, maybe it's Baden, but it feels like I am back in 1995 on a dialup.  Download is better than upload, it could reach 120KB, but upload is crazy, takes almost 5 minutes to upload a meg.</p><p>Now back in Toronto I was on cable, that was so much better, however they have their own problems, try doing any P2P and they throttle your ass down and there are monthly limits that hit unexpectedly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see yours and I raise you my anecdote .
I am actually in Germany , Baden Baden right now , lived here for a few months , came from Toronto .
We live on sort of a mountain here though , and it 's a nice place and all , but I can not get anything except one single DSL provider , do n't want to mention their name , but they are THE telecom in this country .
Ca n't get cable , satellite would still only allow me the downstream .
I got mobile actually , but again , where we are it does n't work well , it works better downtown.I do n't know , maybe it 's Baden , but it feels like I am back in 1995 on a dialup .
Download is better than upload , it could reach 120KB , but upload is crazy , takes almost 5 minutes to upload a meg.Now back in Toronto I was on cable , that was so much better , however they have their own problems , try doing any P2P and they throttle your ass down and there are monthly limits that hit unexpectedly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see yours and I raise you my anecdote.
I am actually in Germany, Baden Baden right now, lived here for a few months, came from Toronto.
We live on sort of a mountain here though, and it's a nice place and all, but I cannot get anything except one single DSL provider, don't want to mention their name, but they are THE telecom in this country.
Can't get cable, satellite would still only allow me the downstream.
I got mobile actually, but again, where we are it doesn't work well, it works better downtown.I don't know, maybe it's Baden, but it feels like I am back in 1995 on a dialup.
Download is better than upload, it could reach 120KB, but upload is crazy, takes almost 5 minutes to upload a meg.Now back in Toronto I was on cable, that was so much better, however they have their own problems, try doing any P2P and they throttle your ass down and there are monthly limits that hit unexpectedly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392240</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>jon3k</author>
	<datestamp>1267990620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can get 100mb/s DOCSIS 3.0 cable in New York and there are dozens of metro-ethernet providers.  You can get fiber from Verizon FiOS in many major markets.  The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services.
<br> <br>
We have dramatically different engineering challenges than European nations.  Comparing the two is impossible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can get 100mb/s DOCSIS 3.0 cable in New York and there are dozens of metro-ethernet providers .
You can get fiber from Verizon FiOS in many major markets .
The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services .
We have dramatically different engineering challenges than European nations .
Comparing the two is impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can get 100mb/s DOCSIS 3.0 cable in New York and there are dozens of metro-ethernet providers.
You can get fiber from Verizon FiOS in many major markets.
The problem is hauling this traffic via large fiber optic cables across a land mass the size of North America dramatically increases the cost per node to deploy services.
We have dramatically different engineering challenges than European nations.
Comparing the two is impossible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389804</id>
	<title>Time</title>
	<author>Tteddo</author>
	<datestamp>1267977120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone else noticed that this was posted in the future?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone else noticed that this was posted in the future ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone else noticed that this was posted in the future?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393638</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267956300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I beg your pardon, but which provider has 32Mbit/s for 29.90?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I beg your pardon , but which provider has 32Mbit/s for 29.90 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I beg your pardon, but which provider has 32Mbit/s for 29.90?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390686</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267982460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But what are you going to do when you're stuck inside during the long, cold Scandinavian winter?</p></div><p>Two words.
<br> <br>
unisex sauna.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But what are you going to do when you 're stuck inside during the long , cold Scandinavian winter ? Two words .
unisex sauna .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But what are you going to do when you're stuck inside during the long, cold Scandinavian winter?Two words.
unisex sauna.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390778</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>jedidiah</author>
	<datestamp>1267983060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would argue that most people won't know what to do with all of that (10m/2m). What they need is a certain RELIABLE level somewhere considerably beneath that. They need less overhyped speed and more reliability.</p><p>Athough "web based television" could certainly drive more demand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would argue that most people wo n't know what to do with all of that ( 10m/2m ) .
What they need is a certain RELIABLE level somewhere considerably beneath that .
They need less overhyped speed and more reliability.Athough " web based television " could certainly drive more demand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would argue that most people won't know what to do with all of that (10m/2m).
What they need is a certain RELIABLE level somewhere considerably beneath that.
They need less overhyped speed and more reliability.Athough "web based television" could certainly drive more demand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31428076</id>
	<title>Re:Ever-more proof that Europe is a Potemkin Villa</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268245200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Economics is just a completely arbitrary, man-made system of resource allocation.</p></div><p>To a socialist, maybe - just as sciences like geology and cosmology have no sway with a young earth creationist.  But to a capitalist, on the other hand, <a href="http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html" title="aynrandlexicon.com" rel="nofollow">reason is the basis of all knowledge!</a> [aynrandlexicon.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure, America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish.</p></div><p>Europe and America are not sentient organisms with a functional capacity to reason.  They are abstractions for millions of human beings, each of whom has an autonomous capacity to think, act, and experience consequences of one's actions.  A vague abstraction cannot own resources - those resources have been created (or homesteaded / brought into the human economy), sold, bought, transformed, etc by specific individual human beings!</p><p>In a rational (and therefore free) society, people <a href="http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf" title="isil.org" rel="nofollow">own themselves</a> [isil.org] and the consequences of their actions (aka "capital").  No one may "decide" how to allocate their minds, bodies, and fruits of their labor except them!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>By the way, there's no such thing as a free market, capitalism can't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything.</p></div><p>You couldn't be more wrong.  The correlation between absence of government intervention and economic freedom is almost a truism, especially when you accurately define "government" as any institution that violates Natural Rights, no matter if it's a modern parliament or a Somali warlord.</p><p>The more government you have, the less freedom and less economic growth.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Economics is just a completely arbitrary , man-made system of resource allocation.To a socialist , maybe - just as sciences like geology and cosmology have no sway with a young earth creationist .
But to a capitalist , on the other hand , reason is the basis of all knowledge !
[ aynrandlexicon.com ] Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure , America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish.Europe and America are not sentient organisms with a functional capacity to reason .
They are abstractions for millions of human beings , each of whom has an autonomous capacity to think , act , and experience consequences of one 's actions .
A vague abstraction can not own resources - those resources have been created ( or homesteaded / brought into the human economy ) , sold , bought , transformed , etc by specific individual human beings ! In a rational ( and therefore free ) society , people own themselves [ isil.org ] and the consequences of their actions ( aka " capital " ) .
No one may " decide " how to allocate their minds , bodies , and fruits of their labor except them ! By the way , there 's no such thing as a free market , capitalism ca n't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything.You could n't be more wrong .
The correlation between absence of government intervention and economic freedom is almost a truism , especially when you accurately define " government " as any institution that violates Natural Rights , no matter if it 's a modern parliament or a Somali warlord.The more government you have , the less freedom and less economic growth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Economics is just a completely arbitrary, man-made system of resource allocation.To a socialist, maybe - just as sciences like geology and cosmology have no sway with a young earth creationist.
But to a capitalist, on the other hand, reason is the basis of all knowledge!
[aynrandlexicon.com] Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure, America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish.Europe and America are not sentient organisms with a functional capacity to reason.
They are abstractions for millions of human beings, each of whom has an autonomous capacity to think, act, and experience consequences of one's actions.
A vague abstraction cannot own resources - those resources have been created (or homesteaded / brought into the human economy), sold, bought, transformed, etc by specific individual human beings!In a rational (and therefore free) society, people own themselves [isil.org] and the consequences of their actions (aka "capital").
No one may "decide" how to allocate their minds, bodies, and fruits of their labor except them!By the way, there's no such thing as a free market, capitalism can't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything.You couldn't be more wrong.
The correlation between absence of government intervention and economic freedom is almost a truism, especially when you accurately define "government" as any institution that violates Natural Rights, no matter if it's a modern parliament or a Somali warlord.The more government you have, the less freedom and less economic growth.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391032</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391032</id>
	<title>Re:Ever-more proof that Europe is a Potemkin Villa</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267984260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Free market capitalism, or economics in general, is not a natural law of the universe like physics or maths. Economics is just a completely arbitrary, man-made system of resource allocation.</p><p>Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure, America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish. By the way, there's no such thing as a free market, capitalism can't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Free market capitalism , or economics in general , is not a natural law of the universe like physics or maths .
Economics is just a completely arbitrary , man-made system of resource allocation.Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure , America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish .
By the way , there 's no such thing as a free market , capitalism ca n't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free market capitalism, or economics in general, is not a natural law of the universe like physics or maths.
Economics is just a completely arbitrary, man-made system of resource allocation.Europe decides to allocate its resources to communications infrastructure, America decides to allocate its resources to a few rich people to do with as they wish.
By the way, there's no such thing as a free market, capitalism can't exist without strong government intervention in damn near everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390476</id>
	<title>Numbers, numbers....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267981200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article sites some numbers, but... what do they actually say? Nothing. You can state a whole list of numbers, but the actual user experience is what counts. Here in EU, I haven't had a single minute of internet downtime for the last 2 full years. Not a single minute. However, my American friends complain quite often about internet downtime, while they pay absurdly large prices. For comparison: I pay &euro;39,99/month for 20MBps (practically it's around 13 MBps) internet, telephone and digital TV (state-funded channels in full HD) in one single package. I wonder if you can get something like that in the US (&euro;40 is about 50 USD). And yet another thing: we have wifi almost everywhere, even in trains (for free!). It's just a matter of time before they'll put wifi in subways and buses. Are these services available in the US? I wonder.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article sites some numbers , but... what do they actually say ?
Nothing. You can state a whole list of numbers , but the actual user experience is what counts .
Here in EU , I have n't had a single minute of internet downtime for the last 2 full years .
Not a single minute .
However , my American friends complain quite often about internet downtime , while they pay absurdly large prices .
For comparison : I pay    39,99/month for 20MBps ( practically it 's around 13 MBps ) internet , telephone and digital TV ( state-funded channels in full HD ) in one single package .
I wonder if you can get something like that in the US (    40 is about 50 USD ) .
And yet another thing : we have wifi almost everywhere , even in trains ( for free ! ) .
It 's just a matter of time before they 'll put wifi in subways and buses .
Are these services available in the US ?
I wonder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article sites some numbers, but... what do they actually say?
Nothing. You can state a whole list of numbers, but the actual user experience is what counts.
Here in EU, I haven't had a single minute of internet downtime for the last 2 full years.
Not a single minute.
However, my American friends complain quite often about internet downtime, while they pay absurdly large prices.
For comparison: I pay €39,99/month for 20MBps (practically it's around 13 MBps) internet, telephone and digital TV (state-funded channels in full HD) in one single package.
I wonder if you can get something like that in the US (€40 is about 50 USD).
And yet another thing: we have wifi almost everywhere, even in trains (for free!).
It's just a matter of time before they'll put wifi in subways and buses.
Are these services available in the US?
I wonder.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393778</id>
	<title>Re:No matter where you are, 'remote' = poor servic</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267957320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You really should be moded higher.<br><i>Anyway, how much bandwidth do you really need? Is it really a handicap if you cannot run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat?</i><br>Is so true.  I see all these people 'I get 40mbs, well I get 60, well I get 100'<br>Why?<br>Of the last 4 US cities I've lived in they've all had at least 10mbs which is enough to stream DVD quality live.  So really the only thing I'm 'missing' out on living in the US is real time HDTV over the internet?<br>I think Slashdot needs to realize there are better ways to rank a country then the amount of gigabytes you can download per day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You really should be moded higher.Anyway , how much bandwidth do you really need ?
Is it really a handicap if you can not run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat ? Is so true .
I see all these people 'I get 40mbs , well I get 60 , well I get 100'Why ? Of the last 4 US cities I 've lived in they 've all had at least 10mbs which is enough to stream DVD quality live .
So really the only thing I 'm 'missing ' out on living in the US is real time HDTV over the internet ? I think Slashdot needs to realize there are better ways to rank a country then the amount of gigabytes you can download per day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You really should be moded higher.Anyway, how much bandwidth do you really need?
Is it really a handicap if you cannot run a call/data centre from some remote mountain or desert retreat?Is so true.
I see all these people 'I get 40mbs, well I get 60, well I get 100'Why?Of the last 4 US cities I've lived in they've all had at least 10mbs which is enough to stream DVD quality live.
So really the only thing I'm 'missing' out on living in the US is real time HDTV over the internet?I think Slashdot needs to realize there are better ways to rank a country then the amount of gigabytes you can download per day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390876</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>blackraven14250</author>
	<datestamp>1267983480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every place in the US has two wired options maximum: 1 DSL and 1 cable. Technically, you can get more options on DSL. However, if Verizon is the local TelCo, any other companies pay to "rent" lines from Verizon, and almost always are more expensive for the speed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every place in the US has two wired options maximum : 1 DSL and 1 cable .
Technically , you can get more options on DSL .
However , if Verizon is the local TelCo , any other companies pay to " rent " lines from Verizon , and almost always are more expensive for the speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every place in the US has two wired options maximum: 1 DSL and 1 cable.
Technically, you can get more options on DSL.
However, if Verizon is the local TelCo, any other companies pay to "rent" lines from Verizon, and almost always are more expensive for the speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391168</id>
	<title>they call it astroturfing</title>
	<author>currently\_awake</author>
	<datestamp>1267985040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>when some big company comes out with something that's obviously wrong, it's usually paid advertising.
the sad thing is they actually think we're too stupid to see it.  The sadder thing is for many average CEO's they're right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>when some big company comes out with something that 's obviously wrong , it 's usually paid advertising .
the sad thing is they actually think we 're too stupid to see it .
The sadder thing is for many average CEO 's they 're right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when some big company comes out with something that's obviously wrong, it's usually paid advertising.
the sad thing is they actually think we're too stupid to see it.
The sadder thing is for many average CEO's they're right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392066</id>
	<title>Re:Ever-more proof that Europe is a Potemkin Villa</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267989780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The immutable laws of economics? Really? Is that like the immutable law of Homo Oeconomicus that utterly failed to predict the result of certain money sharing experiments? Or the immutable laws that prevented economists the world over from figuring out why people walk (or even run!) up escalators? Or the immutable laws that completely failed to force banks like Bear Stearns to act in their own best long-term interest?</p><p>I don't know whether to laugh at your blind faith in economics, or cry at your ignorance of reality. After all, people like you vote for my representatives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The immutable laws of economics ?
Really ? Is that like the immutable law of Homo Oeconomicus that utterly failed to predict the result of certain money sharing experiments ?
Or the immutable laws that prevented economists the world over from figuring out why people walk ( or even run !
) up escalators ?
Or the immutable laws that completely failed to force banks like Bear Stearns to act in their own best long-term interest ? I do n't know whether to laugh at your blind faith in economics , or cry at your ignorance of reality .
After all , people like you vote for my representatives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The immutable laws of economics?
Really? Is that like the immutable law of Homo Oeconomicus that utterly failed to predict the result of certain money sharing experiments?
Or the immutable laws that prevented economists the world over from figuring out why people walk (or even run!
) up escalators?
Or the immutable laws that completely failed to force banks like Bear Stearns to act in their own best long-term interest?I don't know whether to laugh at your blind faith in economics, or cry at your ignorance of reality.
After all, people like you vote for my representatives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390466</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>bemymonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1267981140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which cable provider are you on in Germany? I'm looking to get away from 1&amp;1, and 30&euro; a month for a realistic 1.8Mbit/s of upload speed sounds pretty good to me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Do they offer VoIP?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which cable provider are you on in Germany ?
I 'm looking to get away from 1&amp;1 , and 30    a month for a realistic 1.8Mbit/s of upload speed sounds pretty good to me : ) Do they offer VoIP ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which cable provider are you on in Germany?
I'm looking to get away from 1&amp;1, and 30€ a month for a realistic 1.8Mbit/s of upload speed sounds pretty good to me :)Do they offer VoIP?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31398232</id>
	<title>Re:Punditry != Analysis</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1268081280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>These comments point out that the market for broadband services cannot ever resemble a textbook "perfectly competitive" market with multitudes of suppliers.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Especially funny if you're from Germany. I could choose between half a dozen DSL providers with a number of resellers and four mobile providers, each of which have spawned various sub-brands, all of which are competing against each other and their mother companies. And, in theory, cable. But hey, that might mean paying money for TV channels, which is just weird. Competition over here is pretty fierce.<br>
<br>
Granted, my area is too rural for comprehensive 3G cover (with only one network offering HSDPA in the area) and it's unlikely any DSL provider is going to give me decent speed due to the distance to the nearest DSLAM. But I can easily switch if I find that one of them has the better package and due to competition remaining fierce they tend to come up with new things from time to time. Integrated telephone and mobile flatrates are already common (and data flatrates are the default); some providers are now bundling video-on-demand offerings.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>These comments point out that the market for broadband services can not ever resemble a textbook " perfectly competitive " market with multitudes of suppliers .
Especially funny if you 're from Germany .
I could choose between half a dozen DSL providers with a number of resellers and four mobile providers , each of which have spawned various sub-brands , all of which are competing against each other and their mother companies .
And , in theory , cable .
But hey , that might mean paying money for TV channels , which is just weird .
Competition over here is pretty fierce .
Granted , my area is too rural for comprehensive 3G cover ( with only one network offering HSDPA in the area ) and it 's unlikely any DSL provider is going to give me decent speed due to the distance to the nearest DSLAM .
But I can easily switch if I find that one of them has the better package and due to competition remaining fierce they tend to come up with new things from time to time .
Integrated telephone and mobile flatrates are already common ( and data flatrates are the default ) ; some providers are now bundling video-on-demand offerings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These comments point out that the market for broadband services cannot ever resemble a textbook "perfectly competitive" market with multitudes of suppliers.
Especially funny if you're from Germany.
I could choose between half a dozen DSL providers with a number of resellers and four mobile providers, each of which have spawned various sub-brands, all of which are competing against each other and their mother companies.
And, in theory, cable.
But hey, that might mean paying money for TV channels, which is just weird.
Competition over here is pretty fierce.
Granted, my area is too rural for comprehensive 3G cover (with only one network offering HSDPA in the area) and it's unlikely any DSL provider is going to give me decent speed due to the distance to the nearest DSLAM.
But I can easily switch if I find that one of them has the better package and due to competition remaining fierce they tend to come up with new things from time to time.
Integrated telephone and mobile flatrates are already common (and data flatrates are the default); some providers are now bundling video-on-demand offerings.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395598</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone really care anymore?</title>
	<author>OFnow</author>
	<datestamp>1267969560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>At that point is there really much to discuss? Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband.</p></div><p>Lots of people within an hour of San Francisco have zero or 1 supplier capable of 1MBit/s.<br>Prices are outrageous and there is no competition.  Only the US Govt could count 1MegaBit/s as<br>broadband, and yes, they do count even lower speeds as broadband.</p><p>I luck out as the outrageous Comcast price does get decent data rates some of the time, and<br>only goes down for 10 minutes per month, approximately.  ADSL speeds here at home are approximately<br>128KBit/s down (impressive, what?  Forget it.).  And I'm just a 20 minute drive from my door<br>to the city of San Francisco, not in the middle of Montana.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At that point is there really much to discuss ?
Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband.Lots of people within an hour of San Francisco have zero or 1 supplier capable of 1MBit/s.Prices are outrageous and there is no competition .
Only the US Govt could count 1MegaBit/s asbroadband , and yes , they do count even lower speeds as broadband.I luck out as the outrageous Comcast price does get decent data rates some of the time , andonly goes down for 10 minutes per month , approximately .
ADSL speeds here at home are approximately128KBit/s down ( impressive , what ?
Forget it. ) .
And I 'm just a 20 minute drive from my doorto the city of San Francisco , not in the middle of Montana .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At that point is there really much to discuss?
Everyone who actually uses the internet in any significant fashion is on broadband.Lots of people within an hour of San Francisco have zero or 1 supplier capable of 1MBit/s.Prices are outrageous and there is no competition.
Only the US Govt could count 1MegaBit/s asbroadband, and yes, they do count even lower speeds as broadband.I luck out as the outrageous Comcast price does get decent data rates some of the time, andonly goes down for 10 minutes per month, approximately.
ADSL speeds here at home are approximately128KBit/s down (impressive, what?
Forget it.).
And I'm just a 20 minute drive from my doorto the city of San Francisco, not in the middle of Montana.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391422</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>nxtw</author>
	<datestamp>1267986540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>They pay more then i do, they only have one choice for broadband (SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed. And i don't mean 'stated', i mean actual.<br>They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month.</p></div></blockquote><p>AT&amp;T hasn't had prices like that for years.</p><p>Nowadays 6.0/768 is $40-45/mo.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They pay more then i do , they only have one choice for broadband ( SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T ) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed .
And i do n't mean 'stated ' , i mean actual.They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $ 45/month.AT&amp;T has n't had prices like that for years.Nowadays 6.0/768 is $ 40-45/mo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They pay more then i do, they only have one choice for broadband (SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed.
And i don't mean 'stated', i mean actual.They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month.AT&amp;T hasn't had prices like that for years.Nowadays 6.0/768 is $40-45/mo.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389934</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267977960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>My Parents live in the US (Missouri), i live in Germany.<br>
They pay more then i do, they only have one choice for broadband (SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed. And i don't mean 'stated', i mean actual.<br>
They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month. In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s).<br>
<br>
My brother lives in mountain view (near google) and used to live in menlo park. On both occasions he had only two choices (dsl and cable form one provider each).<br>
Each was horribly slow and very expensive. And this is in the F*ING HEART OF SILICON VALLY!!!. At least now in mountain view he gets free google wifi (which he uses exclusively, thank you google!).<br>
<br>
In Germany i have 8 different DSL providers, all tying to outbid each other (this is in a small rural town with maybe like 5000 inhabitants). Unfortunately with DSL the max they can provide is 16Mbit/s over twisted pair, that's why i went with cable, which for the speed is just as cheap and way cheaper then anything i ever saw in the US. Sure i heard of things like 'Fiber to the premises' but in the areas my parents, my brothers and i lived it was never even considered, and in the last 10 years the price of 'broadband' was actually raised 2x. Each time my parents would cancel or threaten to cancel to get the 'new user' prices again which would be what they payed before. But it's not really much of a choice, if they want broad band they have to pay what AT&amp;T asks.<br>
<br>
This article is either total BS or somehow every place i know in the US has been miraculously spared of any type of competition leaving horrible service, horrible speeds for extravagant prices.<br>
Does anybody in the US have something like 32Mbit/s (uncapped)  $40/moth? If so, where do you live and what is your ISP?</htmltext>
<tokenext>My Parents live in the US ( Missouri ) , i live in Germany .
They pay more then i do , they only have one choice for broadband ( SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T ) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed .
And i do n't mean 'stated ' , i mean actual .
They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $ 45/month .
In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s ) .
My brother lives in mountain view ( near google ) and used to live in menlo park .
On both occasions he had only two choices ( dsl and cable form one provider each ) .
Each was horribly slow and very expensive .
And this is in the F * ING HEART OF SILICON VALLY ! ! ! .
At least now in mountain view he gets free google wifi ( which he uses exclusively , thank you google ! ) .
In Germany i have 8 different DSL providers , all tying to outbid each other ( this is in a small rural town with maybe like 5000 inhabitants ) .
Unfortunately with DSL the max they can provide is 16Mbit/s over twisted pair , that 's why i went with cable , which for the speed is just as cheap and way cheaper then anything i ever saw in the US .
Sure i heard of things like 'Fiber to the premises ' but in the areas my parents , my brothers and i lived it was never even considered , and in the last 10 years the price of 'broadband ' was actually raised 2x .
Each time my parents would cancel or threaten to cancel to get the 'new user ' prices again which would be what they payed before .
But it 's not really much of a choice , if they want broad band they have to pay what AT&amp;T asks .
This article is either total BS or somehow every place i know in the US has been miraculously spared of any type of competition leaving horrible service , horrible speeds for extravagant prices .
Does anybody in the US have something like 32Mbit/s ( uncapped ) $ 40/moth ?
If so , where do you live and what is your ISP ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Parents live in the US (Missouri), i live in Germany.
They pay more then i do, they only have one choice for broadband (SBC Global which is now AT&amp;T) and their download speed is slower then my upload speed.
And i don't mean 'stated', i mean actual.
They have 768kbit/s down stated and they do get that but they pay around $45/month.
In Germany i pay 29.90 euro for 32Mbit/s stated of which i actually get 3.9MByte/s sustained so 31.2Mbit/s actual and 2Mbit/s upstream stated of which i get like 220kbyte/s so 1.8Mbit/s).
My brother lives in mountain view (near google) and used to live in menlo park.
On both occasions he had only two choices (dsl and cable form one provider each).
Each was horribly slow and very expensive.
And this is in the F*ING HEART OF SILICON VALLY!!!.
At least now in mountain view he gets free google wifi (which he uses exclusively, thank you google!).
In Germany i have 8 different DSL providers, all tying to outbid each other (this is in a small rural town with maybe like 5000 inhabitants).
Unfortunately with DSL the max they can provide is 16Mbit/s over twisted pair, that's why i went with cable, which for the speed is just as cheap and way cheaper then anything i ever saw in the US.
Sure i heard of things like 'Fiber to the premises' but in the areas my parents, my brothers and i lived it was never even considered, and in the last 10 years the price of 'broadband' was actually raised 2x.
Each time my parents would cancel or threaten to cancel to get the 'new user' prices again which would be what they payed before.
But it's not really much of a choice, if they want broad band they have to pay what AT&amp;T asks.
This article is either total BS or somehow every place i know in the US has been miraculously spared of any type of competition leaving horrible service, horrible speeds for extravagant prices.
Does anybody in the US have something like 32Mbit/s (uncapped)  $40/moth?
If so, where do you live and what is your ISP?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31393484</id>
	<title>Sux to be you</title>
	<author>ozphobia</author>
	<datestamp>1267955280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in good old Australia we are held hostage to a legacy single infrastructure provider to the premise.  This means artificially high ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ costs.  Even if another provider builds a DSLAM in the exchange, the rental on the physical copper is a killer.  Entry here (256Kbps/64Kbps with 2GB of bandwidth) is AU$30, on an often congested backhaul.</p><p>With the provider only now getting 100Mbps connections, with cable being upgraded to 30Mbps and for 200GB, counting up and down it is AU$179 a month.</p><p>Other providers are out there, but we are crippled by the last mile provider, who I might add has the worst call centre in a third world country, and books appointments between either 7am-12am or 12am-5pm blocks, and even then doesn't phone or turn up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in good old Australia we are held hostage to a legacy single infrastructure provider to the premise .
This means artificially high ADSL , ADSL2 and ADSL2 + costs .
Even if another provider builds a DSLAM in the exchange , the rental on the physical copper is a killer .
Entry here ( 256Kbps/64Kbps with 2GB of bandwidth ) is AU $ 30 , on an often congested backhaul.With the provider only now getting 100Mbps connections , with cable being upgraded to 30Mbps and for 200GB , counting up and down it is AU $ 179 a month.Other providers are out there , but we are crippled by the last mile provider , who I might add has the worst call centre in a third world country , and books appointments between either 7am-12am or 12am-5pm blocks , and even then does n't phone or turn up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in good old Australia we are held hostage to a legacy single infrastructure provider to the premise.
This means artificially high ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ costs.
Even if another provider builds a DSLAM in the exchange, the rental on the physical copper is a killer.
Entry here (256Kbps/64Kbps with 2GB of bandwidth) is AU$30, on an often congested backhaul.With the provider only now getting 100Mbps connections, with cable being upgraded to 30Mbps and for 200GB, counting up and down it is AU$179 a month.Other providers are out there, but we are crippled by the last mile provider, who I might add has the worst call centre in a third world country, and books appointments between either 7am-12am or 12am-5pm blocks, and even then doesn't phone or turn up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31391636</id>
	<title>Re:Let's follow the money...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267987500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah yes, but you left out the myriad connections between Harvard, the Berkman Center, and the Stonecutters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah yes , but you left out the myriad connections between Harvard , the Berkman Center , and the Stonecutters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah yes, but you left out the myriad connections between Harvard, the Berkman Center, and the Stonecutters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389868</id>
	<title>Re:Right</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1267977420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, why isn't there a tag on the story, "Horseshit"?  That's what it is, nothing more, and nothing less.</p><p>*takes deep breath*<br>Ahhhh, I love the smell of horseshit in the morning!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , why is n't there a tag on the story , " Horseshit " ?
That 's what it is , nothing more , and nothing less .
* takes deep breath * Ahhhh , I love the smell of horseshit in the morning !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, why isn't there a tag on the story, "Horseshit"?
That's what it is, nothing more, and nothing less.
*takes deep breath*Ahhhh, I love the smell of horseshit in the morning!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390120</id>
	<title>Re:This is just a reminder.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267979100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know your post was intended to pre-empt the stupid comments that will quite possibly come up, but still, I get the impression that the study was intended to look at overall quality of service. At the end of the day customers care much more about the service they receive than the relative ease or difficulty of bringing that service to them. The argument is a fair one to make when talking about <em>why</em> the US and Canada are (or aren't) lacking in broadband tech, but it's irrelevant if the question is simply "Are they lacking or not?".</p><p>I have to say, 70\% penetration sounds pretty dire, whether or not that cost the industry 5x more than getting 95\%+ in the UK. Comparing advertised speeds rather than actual speeds, on the other hand, <em>does</em> sound like a severe weakness of the study and certainly deserves to be looked into.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know your post was intended to pre-empt the stupid comments that will quite possibly come up , but still , I get the impression that the study was intended to look at overall quality of service .
At the end of the day customers care much more about the service they receive than the relative ease or difficulty of bringing that service to them .
The argument is a fair one to make when talking about why the US and Canada are ( or are n't ) lacking in broadband tech , but it 's irrelevant if the question is simply " Are they lacking or not ?
" .I have to say , 70 \ % penetration sounds pretty dire , whether or not that cost the industry 5x more than getting 95 \ % + in the UK .
Comparing advertised speeds rather than actual speeds , on the other hand , does sound like a severe weakness of the study and certainly deserves to be looked into .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know your post was intended to pre-empt the stupid comments that will quite possibly come up, but still, I get the impression that the study was intended to look at overall quality of service.
At the end of the day customers care much more about the service they receive than the relative ease or difficulty of bringing that service to them.
The argument is a fair one to make when talking about why the US and Canada are (or aren't) lacking in broadband tech, but it's irrelevant if the question is simply "Are they lacking or not?
".I have to say, 70\% penetration sounds pretty dire, whether or not that cost the industry 5x more than getting 95\%+ in the UK.
Comparing advertised speeds rather than actual speeds, on the other hand, does sound like a severe weakness of the study and certainly deserves to be looked into.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31389984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31392640</id>
	<title>Re:It may suck now...</title>
	<author>IICV</author>
	<datestamp>1267993080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, because in a country the size of the United States, the government can only focus on one thing at a time ever. And because spending federal tax money is the only way to improve Internet speeds, instead of you know maybe encouraging the development of local municipal ISPs or perhaps more stringently regulating the existent telecom companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because in a country the size of the United States , the government can only focus on one thing at a time ever .
And because spending federal tax money is the only way to improve Internet speeds , instead of you know maybe encouraging the development of local municipal ISPs or perhaps more stringently regulating the existent telecom companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because in a country the size of the United States, the government can only focus on one thing at a time ever.
And because spending federal tax money is the only way to improve Internet speeds, instead of you know maybe encouraging the development of local municipal ISPs or perhaps more stringently regulating the existent telecom companies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31390322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_07_1331232.31395378</id>
	<title>BS!</title>
	<author>chucklebutte</author>
	<datestamp>1267968180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh yeah so fast here... Tell that to my "6Meg" DSL line that if I download anything from any source, FTP, HTTP, Torrent, Usenet, P2P through IM's any form of data I wish to download will bring my home network to such a snails pace that it will trash every other pc on the network and will not allow any forms of traffic to get through that is internet related (shares and printer work flawlessly though). Its so frustrating my ISP swears everything is working fine and they are not throttling anyone, but if I look at my dsl modem logs when I begin a download I get ATM congested warnings and then my connection tanks. Whats the best part is when I do download im lucky to top 300kbps, ever.... Where is my 6meg down? Why am I paying nearly 75 bucks a month for 2x ISDN speed? Why am I forced to upgrade my internal network to 1Gbps and N wireless when 54g and 100Mbps suited my needs just fine? And why after I buy new crap I still suffer from problems??? Curse you ISP blaming my working hardware, forcing me to buy new hardware, only to be left with the same results!!!</p><p>Whats even more frustrating is where I live there is only 1 ISP (Damn foothills!!!) But the town of which I am in the county of only has 2 ISP's ATT and Comcrap... NA major problem is lack of competition. ATT laid fiber down nearly 30 years ago! They dont care if it gets used or not, they wont drop a dime on it and why? Cause no one has many choices either you get one evil or the other and they both offer slow speeds or false high speeds and either way in the end you get over charged and you get an inferior product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh yeah so fast here... Tell that to my " 6Meg " DSL line that if I download anything from any source , FTP , HTTP , Torrent , Usenet , P2P through IM 's any form of data I wish to download will bring my home network to such a snails pace that it will trash every other pc on the network and will not allow any forms of traffic to get through that is internet related ( shares and printer work flawlessly though ) .
Its so frustrating my ISP swears everything is working fine and they are not throttling anyone , but if I look at my dsl modem logs when I begin a download I get ATM congested warnings and then my connection tanks .
Whats the best part is when I do download im lucky to top 300kbps , ever.... Where is my 6meg down ?
Why am I paying nearly 75 bucks a month for 2x ISDN speed ?
Why am I forced to upgrade my internal network to 1Gbps and N wireless when 54g and 100Mbps suited my needs just fine ?
And why after I buy new crap I still suffer from problems ? ? ?
Curse you ISP blaming my working hardware , forcing me to buy new hardware , only to be left with the same results ! !
! Whats even more frustrating is where I live there is only 1 ISP ( Damn foothills ! ! !
) But the town of which I am in the county of only has 2 ISP 's ATT and Comcrap... NA major problem is lack of competition .
ATT laid fiber down nearly 30 years ago !
They dont care if it gets used or not , they wont drop a dime on it and why ?
Cause no one has many choices either you get one evil or the other and they both offer slow speeds or false high speeds and either way in the end you get over charged and you get an inferior product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh yeah so fast here... Tell that to my "6Meg" DSL line that if I download anything from any source, FTP, HTTP, Torrent, Usenet, P2P through IM's any form of data I wish to download will bring my home network to such a snails pace that it will trash every other pc on the network and will not allow any forms of traffic to get through that is internet related (shares and printer work flawlessly though).
Its so frustrating my ISP swears everything is working fine and they are not throttling anyone, but if I look at my dsl modem logs when I begin a download I get ATM congested warnings and then my connection tanks.
Whats the best part is when I do download im lucky to top 300kbps, ever.... Where is my 6meg down?
Why am I paying nearly 75 bucks a month for 2x ISDN speed?
Why am I forced to upgrade my internal network to 1Gbps and N wireless when 54g and 100Mbps suited my needs just fine?
And why after I buy new crap I still suffer from problems???
Curse you ISP blaming my working hardware, forcing me to buy new hardware, only to be left with the same results!!
!Whats even more frustrating is where I live there is only 1 ISP (Damn foothills!!!
) But the town of which I am in the county of only has 2 ISP's ATT and Comcrap... NA major problem is lack of competition.
ATT laid fiber down nearly 30 years ago!
They dont care if it gets used or not, they wont drop a dime on it and why?
Cause no one has many choices either you get one evil or the other and they both offer slow speeds or false high speeds and either way in the end you get over charged and you get an inferior product.</sentencetext>
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