<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_01_2333221</id>
	<title>UK Police Promise Not To Retain DNA Data, But Do Anyway</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1267471500000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:matthew@matthewwilkes.co.uk" rel="nofollow">redalien</a> writes <i>"In 2008 I <a href="http://www.circulartriangle.com/blog/?p=41">invited two policemen into my home</a> and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west\_midlands/6471051.stm">a murder investigation</a>, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation. I was never under any suspicion and could just as easily have said no. Almost a year after the investigation closed they have now confirmed that they've retained my samples and at my request have begun an investigation to see if there are sufficient 'exceptional circumstances' to remove them. I'm not the only one who was told samples would be removed, so if you've had such a promise from the police I recommend contacting their data protection registrar immediately."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>redalien writes " In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation , as they 'd promised it would only be used for that investigation .
I was never under any suspicion and could just as easily have said no .
Almost a year after the investigation closed they have now confirmed that they 've retained my samples and at my request have begun an investigation to see if there are sufficient 'exceptional circumstances ' to remove them .
I 'm not the only one who was told samples would be removed , so if you 've had such a promise from the police I recommend contacting their data protection registrar immediately .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>redalien writes "In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation.
I was never under any suspicion and could just as easily have said no.
Almost a year after the investigation closed they have now confirmed that they've retained my samples and at my request have begun an investigation to see if there are sufficient 'exceptional circumstances' to remove them.
I'm not the only one who was told samples would be removed, so if you've had such a promise from the police I recommend contacting their data protection registrar immediately.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31344898</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267629180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.</p></div><p>Insisting that your rights be respected is hardly the equivalent of being hostile.</p><p>You are exaggerating.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We had a policeman knock on our door a while back.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... We chatted for a while and he left.</p></div><p>What we're discussing here is what to do when you are taken away by the police.</p><p>You are discussing something else, entirely.</p><p>Nobody has suggested being hostile or even rude towards the police. Nobody has suggested doing something illegal or otherwise strange in any way. I have no idea why you're arguing like anybody did so.</p><p>Read and understand before replying, next time.</p><p>Have a nice day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.Insisting that your rights be respected is hardly the equivalent of being hostile.You are exaggerating.We had a policeman knock on our door a while back .
... We chatted for a while and he left.What we 're discussing here is what to do when you are taken away by the police.You are discussing something else , entirely.Nobody has suggested being hostile or even rude towards the police .
Nobody has suggested doing something illegal or otherwise strange in any way .
I have no idea why you 're arguing like anybody did so.Read and understand before replying , next time.Have a nice day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.Insisting that your rights be respected is hardly the equivalent of being hostile.You are exaggerating.We had a policeman knock on our door a while back.
... We chatted for a while and he left.What we're discussing here is what to do when you are taken away by the police.You are discussing something else, entirely.Nobody has suggested being hostile or even rude towards the police.
Nobody has suggested doing something illegal or otherwise strange in any way.
I have no idea why you're arguing like anybody did so.Read and understand before replying, next time.Have a nice day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31335688</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1267524600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to.</i> <br> <br>It seems different to me.  The video says don't ever talk, no matter what.  No good will come of it.  In the UK system, you lose rights if you don't talk.  That's different from the US.  So, you should talk in some cases in the UK, but never in the US system.<br> <br>The general idea of both systems is that whether you are guilty or innocent, you shouldn't talk in the US.  In the UK, you must talk if you are innocent to retain rights you would otherwise lose.  If you are guilty, there is nothing you gain by talking, so you should remain quiet.<br> <br> <i>The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police.</i> <br> <br>In the UK you directly benefit, in some circumstances, by volunteering information to the police.  So your premise is wrong, along with the advice and the conclusions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to .
It seems different to me .
The video says do n't ever talk , no matter what .
No good will come of it .
In the UK system , you lose rights if you do n't talk .
That 's different from the US .
So , you should talk in some cases in the UK , but never in the US system .
The general idea of both systems is that whether you are guilty or innocent , you should n't talk in the US .
In the UK , you must talk if you are innocent to retain rights you would otherwise lose .
If you are guilty , there is nothing you gain by talking , so you should remain quiet .
The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police .
In the UK you directly benefit , in some circumstances , by volunteering information to the police .
So your premise is wrong , along with the advice and the conclusions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to.
It seems different to me.
The video says don't ever talk, no matter what.
No good will come of it.
In the UK system, you lose rights if you don't talk.
That's different from the US.
So, you should talk in some cases in the UK, but never in the US system.
The general idea of both systems is that whether you are guilty or innocent, you shouldn't talk in the US.
In the UK, you must talk if you are innocent to retain rights you would otherwise lose.
If you are guilty, there is nothing you gain by talking, so you should remain quiet.
The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police.
In the UK you directly benefit, in some circumstances, by volunteering information to the police.
So your premise is wrong, along with the advice and the conclusions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327372</id>
	<title>govts  in disintegration; remember the Duke case</title>
	<author>harvey the nerd</author>
	<datestamp>1267520580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The local district attorney on the Duke rape sat on clear, exonerating DNA evidence that the psycho stripper erred or lied.  They had 6 or 7 DNA samples from her (and underwear) that failed to match any DNA of the falsely charged Duke kids.  Ooops, wrong team!<br>
<br>So why bother with the free DNA?<br>
<br>
Of course, the police and DA everywhere else will cluck their tongues and say this never could happen at their place.  Today, only a fool considers government and corporate reps as anything but potentially dangerous adversaries, and their promises as anything more valuable than glib promises printed on second hand toilet paper.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The local district attorney on the Duke rape sat on clear , exonerating DNA evidence that the psycho stripper erred or lied .
They had 6 or 7 DNA samples from her ( and underwear ) that failed to match any DNA of the falsely charged Duke kids .
Ooops , wrong team !
So why bother with the free DNA ?
Of course , the police and DA everywhere else will cluck their tongues and say this never could happen at their place .
Today , only a fool considers government and corporate reps as anything but potentially dangerous adversaries , and their promises as anything more valuable than glib promises printed on second hand toilet paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The local district attorney on the Duke rape sat on clear, exonerating DNA evidence that the psycho stripper erred or lied.
They had 6 or 7 DNA samples from her (and underwear) that failed to match any DNA of the falsely charged Duke kids.
Ooops, wrong team!
So why bother with the free DNA?
Of course, the police and DA everywhere else will cluck their tongues and say this never could happen at their place.
Today, only a fool considers government and corporate reps as anything but potentially dangerous adversaries, and their promises as anything more valuable than glib promises printed on second hand toilet paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327468</id>
	<title>European Court Ruling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267521960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this not relevant</p><p>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7764069.stm</p><p>?</p><p>Quote from the link:</p><p>The judges ruled the retention of the men's DNA "failed to strike a fair balance between<br>the competing public and private interests," and that the UK government "had overstepped<br>any acceptable margin of appreciation in this regard". The court also ruled "the retention in<br>question constituted a disproportionate interference with the applicants' right to respect for<br>private life and could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic society".</p><p>I'm sure there has been other similar cases as well.</p><p>I think the coppers are bluffing. Push them and see what happens.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this not relevanthttp : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7764069.stm ? Quote from the link : The judges ruled the retention of the men 's DNA " failed to strike a fair balance betweenthe competing public and private interests , " and that the UK government " had oversteppedany acceptable margin of appreciation in this regard " .
The court also ruled " the retention inquestion constituted a disproportionate interference with the applicants ' right to respect forprivate life and could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic society " .I 'm sure there has been other similar cases as well.I think the coppers are bluffing .
Push them and see what happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this not relevanthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7764069.stm?Quote from the link:The judges ruled the retention of the men's DNA "failed to strike a fair balance betweenthe competing public and private interests," and that the UK government "had oversteppedany acceptable margin of appreciation in this regard".
The court also ruled "the retention inquestion constituted a disproportionate interference with the applicants' right to respect forprivate life and could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic society".I'm sure there has been other similar cases as well.I think the coppers are bluffing.
Push them and see what happens.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329066</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267541460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's good to know that my country isn't the only one with dishonest, lying, theiving cops.</p><p>Yes, thieving -- they had this guy's DNA without his permission and outside the law. That's stealing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's good to know that my country is n't the only one with dishonest , lying , theiving cops.Yes , thieving -- they had this guy 's DNA without his permission and outside the law .
That 's stealing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's good to know that my country isn't the only one with dishonest, lying, theiving cops.Yes, thieving -- they had this guy's DNA without his permission and outside the law.
That's stealing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328124</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1267531440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I'm glad this is happening in good ol'England, not some European nanny-state, oppressive, Socialist country. I feel a lot safer.
</p><p>
We all know how those nasty commies want to control everything. Can't be too careful.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm glad this is happening in good ol'England , not some European nanny-state , oppressive , Socialist country .
I feel a lot safer .
We all know how those nasty commies want to control everything .
Ca n't be too careful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I'm glad this is happening in good ol'England, not some European nanny-state, oppressive, Socialist country.
I feel a lot safer.
We all know how those nasty commies want to control everything.
Can't be too careful.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328648</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267538520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The advice in the video is along the lines of 'confirm your details, ask for representation, nothing else', and your advice is 'confirm your details, ask for representation, nothing else'.</p><p>What's the difference here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The advice in the video is along the lines of 'confirm your details , ask for representation , nothing else ' , and your advice is 'confirm your details , ask for representation , nothing else'.What 's the difference here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The advice in the video is along the lines of 'confirm your details, ask for representation, nothing else', and your advice is 'confirm your details, ask for representation, nothing else'.What's the difference here?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327742</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1267526220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't take much comfort from the absence of security cameras.  There's no need for them if the police can just beat a confession out of anyone they don't like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't take much comfort from the absence of security cameras .
There 's no need for them if the police can just beat a confession out of anyone they do n't like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't take much comfort from the absence of security cameras.
There's no need for them if the police can just beat a confession out of anyone they don't like.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31333172</id>
	<title>Re:When will people learn...</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1267558680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the problem. The adversarial system has been taken WAY too far. The DA and police no longer even pretend to seek the truth or facts. They simply seek to convict for the most serious possible charge. Innocence is irrelevant. Reasonability is irrelevant. Given that, the less they have to hang a criminal charge on, the better.</p><p>It's quite a shame really. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the problem .
The adversarial system has been taken WAY too far .
The DA and police no longer even pretend to seek the truth or facts .
They simply seek to convict for the most serious possible charge .
Innocence is irrelevant .
Reasonability is irrelevant .
Given that , the less they have to hang a criminal charge on , the better.It 's quite a shame really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the problem.
The adversarial system has been taken WAY too far.
The DA and police no longer even pretend to seek the truth or facts.
They simply seek to convict for the most serious possible charge.
Innocence is irrelevant.
Reasonability is irrelevant.
Given that, the less they have to hang a criminal charge on, the better.It's quite a shame really. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327446</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328600</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1267538100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How curious; you say to ignore the advice in the video, and then repeat it word for word.

</p><p>If you actually want to add something, how about citing <a href="http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/06/public\_service\_1.html" title="samizdata.net">Nightjack's Survival Guide for Decent Folk</a> [samizdata.net] which adds some counter-strategies?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How curious ; you say to ignore the advice in the video , and then repeat it word for word .
If you actually want to add something , how about citing Nightjack 's Survival Guide for Decent Folk [ samizdata.net ] which adds some counter-strategies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How curious; you say to ignore the advice in the video, and then repeat it word for word.
If you actually want to add something, how about citing Nightjack's Survival Guide for Decent Folk [samizdata.net] which adds some counter-strategies?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329658</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267544400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>In a police investigation, everyone is a potential suspect.</i></p><p>I once saw a cogent comment here at slashdot: To a cop, there are only three kinds of people -- cops, cops' families, and suspects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a police investigation , everyone is a potential suspect.I once saw a cogent comment here at slashdot : To a cop , there are only three kinds of people -- cops , cops ' families , and suspects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a police investigation, everyone is a potential suspect.I once saw a cogent comment here at slashdot: To a cop, there are only three kinds of people -- cops, cops' families, and suspects.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327994</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267529760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bah, I own a pair of clippers and cut my own hair!</p><p>You can't be too paranoid these days<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah , I own a pair of clippers and cut my own hair ! You ca n't be too paranoid these days ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah, I own a pair of clippers and cut my own hair!You can't be too paranoid these days ;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328054</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1267530540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You weren't under caution. Everything changes after you're read your rights.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You were n't under caution .
Everything changes after you 're read your rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You weren't under caution.
Everything changes after you're read your rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</id>
	<title>Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267561920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its funny. Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years, and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK.</p><p>We have more Security Cameras than anyone. Our government wants to record every website, email and text number used. We are profiled beyond compare.. Even our internet private  is monitored..<br>1984<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>You have more chance of being free elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its funny .
Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years , and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK.We have more Security Cameras than anyone .
Our government wants to record every website , email and text number used .
We are profiled beyond compare.. Even our internet private is monitored..1984 : ) You have more chance of being free elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its funny.
Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years, and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK.We have more Security Cameras than anyone.
Our government wants to record every website, email and text number used.
We are profiled beyond compare.. Even our internet private  is monitored..1984 :)You have more chance of being free elsewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327348</id>
	<title>You did trust any UK governmental personel?</title>
	<author>garry\_g</author>
	<datestamp>1267563420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, but at the way the UK (as well as other countries around the globe) are evolving way beyond Orwell's '84, you didn't really believe them, did you? Honestly?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but at the way the UK ( as well as other countries around the globe ) are evolving way beyond Orwell 's '84 , you did n't really believe them , did you ?
Honestly ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but at the way the UK (as well as other countries around the globe) are evolving way beyond Orwell's '84, you didn't really believe them, did you?
Honestly?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327716</id>
	<title>Don't give a Sample</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267525560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How the hell could it "help with a murder investigation" to provide them with a sample of your DNA?</p><p>Presuming you are innocent, you are simply opening yourself up to a false positive match, either now or in sometime in the future.</p><p>You have everything to lose, and nothing whatsoever to gain.</p><p>In the case of a degraded DNA sample, it's possible to have the statical odds of you being a match for a sample in the range of 100,000 to 1. That doesn't seem so bad unless you consider that there might be 1,000,000 records on file. Statistically that's 10 database hits, and if you are the lucky one cold hit, combined with the apparent belief that juries find scientific evidence infallible, you could easily be convicted. It *has* happened before that the only evidence that links a suspect to a crime is a cold database hit.</p><p>Just don't give them a sample without a court order, ever.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How the hell could it " help with a murder investigation " to provide them with a sample of your DNA ? Presuming you are innocent , you are simply opening yourself up to a false positive match , either now or in sometime in the future.You have everything to lose , and nothing whatsoever to gain.In the case of a degraded DNA sample , it 's possible to have the statical odds of you being a match for a sample in the range of 100,000 to 1 .
That does n't seem so bad unless you consider that there might be 1,000,000 records on file .
Statistically that 's 10 database hits , and if you are the lucky one cold hit , combined with the apparent belief that juries find scientific evidence infallible , you could easily be convicted .
It * has * happened before that the only evidence that links a suspect to a crime is a cold database hit.Just do n't give them a sample without a court order , ever .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the hell could it "help with a murder investigation" to provide them with a sample of your DNA?Presuming you are innocent, you are simply opening yourself up to a false positive match, either now or in sometime in the future.You have everything to lose, and nothing whatsoever to gain.In the case of a degraded DNA sample, it's possible to have the statical odds of you being a match for a sample in the range of 100,000 to 1.
That doesn't seem so bad unless you consider that there might be 1,000,000 records on file.
Statistically that's 10 database hits, and if you are the lucky one cold hit, combined with the apparent belief that juries find scientific evidence infallible, you could easily be convicted.
It *has* happened before that the only evidence that links a suspect to a crime is a cold database hit.Just don't give them a sample without a court order, ever.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327774</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>cerberusss</author>
	<datestamp>1267526700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've got a couple of weird points and I'd like to reply since you normally have very good posts.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time.</p></div><p>Well, they like their job. What a strange  thing to assume they hate their job, and you feel like offering them some relief of their horrible job.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who don't take your sort of shit lightly.</p></div><p>Are you sure you're making it harder? He already touched the hood. He still wants to talk to you for some reason you don't know. What is your reason for talking to the officer?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've got a couple of weird points and I 'd like to reply since you normally have very good posts.I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time.Well , they like their job .
What a strange thing to assume they hate their job , and you feel like offering them some relief of their horrible job.And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who do n't take your sort of shit lightly.Are you sure you 're making it harder ?
He already touched the hood .
He still wants to talk to you for some reason you do n't know .
What is your reason for talking to the officer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've got a couple of weird points and I'd like to reply since you normally have very good posts.I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time.Well, they like their job.
What a strange  thing to assume they hate their job, and you feel like offering them some relief of their horrible job.And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who don't take your sort of shit lightly.Are you sure you're making it harder?
He already touched the hood.
He still wants to talk to you for some reason you don't know.
What is your reason for talking to the officer?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327574</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1267523700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, presumably the police having your DNA *on file* increases the likelihood that you'll be hauled in by them for other things, should there be a spurious match (say).  And regardless, if they're keeping personal information they promised not to keep then that's a serious moral issue regardless of the practical consequences - can people trust the police at their word?  Should they?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , presumably the police having your DNA * on file * increases the likelihood that you 'll be hauled in by them for other things , should there be a spurious match ( say ) .
And regardless , if they 're keeping personal information they promised not to keep then that 's a serious moral issue regardless of the practical consequences - can people trust the police at their word ?
Should they ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, presumably the police having your DNA *on file* increases the likelihood that you'll be hauled in by them for other things, should there be a spurious match (say).
And regardless, if they're keeping personal information they promised not to keep then that's a serious moral issue regardless of the practical consequences - can people trust the police at their word?
Should they?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329078</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267541520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forget it.  You gave it to them.  You aren't getting it back.  When you can threaten a few rinky-dink pensions, you have a plan.  Until then, you're not the highest bidder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget it .
You gave it to them .
You are n't getting it back .
When you can threaten a few rinky-dink pensions , you have a plan .
Until then , you 're not the highest bidder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget it.
You gave it to them.
You aren't getting it back.
When you can threaten a few rinky-dink pensions, you have a plan.
Until then, you're not the highest bidder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329040</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267541280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you got a citation for the UK having the most CCTV cameras?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you got a citation for the UK having the most CCTV cameras ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you got a citation for the UK having the most CCTV cameras?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327360</id>
	<title>hi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267563540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>www.niels-stensen-gymnasium.de</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>www.niels-stensen-gymnasium.de</tokentext>
<sentencetext>www.niels-stensen-gymnasium.de</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329378</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1267543080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's because an oral promise is worthless when the party making the promise has a huge incentive to break it. It's like all these telco's/cableco's in the U.S. right now objecting to net neutrality laws. Sure, they promise to maintain net neutrality--but the second the FCC or Congress wants to HOLD them to that promise with a law, suddenly they're up in arms. They know a law comes with actual penalties, whereas a promise can be later finessed away with spin into meaninglessness.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because an oral promise is worthless when the party making the promise has a huge incentive to break it .
It 's like all these telco 's/cableco 's in the U.S. right now objecting to net neutrality laws .
Sure , they promise to maintain net neutrality--but the second the FCC or Congress wants to HOLD them to that promise with a law , suddenly they 're up in arms .
They know a law comes with actual penalties , whereas a promise can be later finessed away with spin into meaninglessness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because an oral promise is worthless when the party making the promise has a huge incentive to break it.
It's like all these telco's/cableco's in the U.S. right now objecting to net neutrality laws.
Sure, they promise to maintain net neutrality--but the second the FCC or Congress wants to HOLD them to that promise with a law, suddenly they're up in arms.
They know a law comes with actual penalties, whereas a promise can be later finessed away with spin into meaninglessness.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31335008</id>
	<title>ahem...</title>
	<author>jDeepbeep</author>
	<datestamp>1267522320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If i'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me?</p></div><p>Exercising your rights does *not* make one a prick.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If i 'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me ? Exercising your rights does * not * make one a prick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If i'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me?Exercising your rights does *not* make one a prick.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31334870</id>
	<title>Re:its on record till your 100th birthday</title>
	<author>Cederic</author>
	<datestamp>1267521840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More insidious, is that although the police wont share their record of you with you, they will share it with a prospective partner that wants to know if you'll harm their children.</p><p>This means that ex-partner can make a clearly false accusation of rape, abuse or child abuse against you, the police realise she's full of shit and never pursue it, then a subsequent relationship break up because the police were obliged to reveal an accusation against you, that you weren't even aware of.</p><p>Currently only available in certain areas, but being rolled out across the country. And I fucking hate it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More insidious , is that although the police wont share their record of you with you , they will share it with a prospective partner that wants to know if you 'll harm their children.This means that ex-partner can make a clearly false accusation of rape , abuse or child abuse against you , the police realise she 's full of shit and never pursue it , then a subsequent relationship break up because the police were obliged to reveal an accusation against you , that you were n't even aware of.Currently only available in certain areas , but being rolled out across the country .
And I fucking hate it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More insidious, is that although the police wont share their record of you with you, they will share it with a prospective partner that wants to know if you'll harm their children.This means that ex-partner can make a clearly false accusation of rape, abuse or child abuse against you, the police realise she's full of shit and never pursue it, then a subsequent relationship break up because the police were obliged to reveal an accusation against you, that you weren't even aware of.Currently only available in certain areas, but being rolled out across the country.
And I fucking hate it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330846</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267549920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My barber doesn't know my name, SSN, drivers license number or anything else, and I pay in cash. She just gets some hair from some random guy off the street, one of many.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My barber does n't know my name , SSN , drivers license number or anything else , and I pay in cash .
She just gets some hair from some random guy off the street , one of many .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My barber doesn't know my name, SSN, drivers license number or anything else, and I pay in cash.
She just gets some hair from some random guy off the street, one of many.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327936</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>fred911</author>
	<datestamp>1267528980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.</p><p>
&nbsp; I didn't say to be hostile. Be extra, extra polite but don't waive your rights. Don't answer questions, don't authorize searches, don't listen to their threats, ask if you are under arrest or are being detained.</p><p>
&nbsp; Respond with "Good day Officer" or "Officer unfortunately I am unable to assist you further without my counsel, thank you for understanding."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police .
  I did n't say to be hostile .
Be extra , extra polite but do n't waive your rights .
Do n't answer questions , do n't authorize searches , do n't listen to their threats , ask if you are under arrest or are being detained .
  Respond with " Good day Officer " or " Officer unfortunately I am unable to assist you further without my counsel , thank you for understanding .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.
  I didn't say to be hostile.
Be extra, extra polite but don't waive your rights.
Don't answer questions, don't authorize searches, don't listen to their threats, ask if you are under arrest or are being detained.
  Respond with "Good day Officer" or "Officer unfortunately I am unable to assist you further without my counsel, thank you for understanding.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329502</id>
	<title>Re:When will people learn...</title>
	<author>Denial93</author>
	<datestamp>1267543740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And if that sounds boring to you, various things may be okay to say <i>after</i> your lawyer agrees to them. You don't need to suck down your cheekiness completely, just wait for it a couple hours. And if that pisses you off, try and estimate how many million man-years in sentences have already resulted from unnecessary talking to the police.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And if that sounds boring to you , various things may be okay to say after your lawyer agrees to them .
You do n't need to suck down your cheekiness completely , just wait for it a couple hours .
And if that pisses you off , try and estimate how many million man-years in sentences have already resulted from unnecessary talking to the police .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if that sounds boring to you, various things may be okay to say after your lawyer agrees to them.
You don't need to suck down your cheekiness completely, just wait for it a couple hours.
And if that pisses you off, try and estimate how many million man-years in sentences have already resulted from unnecessary talking to the police.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327446</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31331584</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267553040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The policeman was in such a rush to do his job that he stopped to talk to someone he didn't think was involved, and had a friendly chat? Must've been real important to find this vehicle similar to yours.</p><p>If you think fred's text was prickish, then you must be infuriated by the everyday behavior of people everywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The policeman was in such a rush to do his job that he stopped to talk to someone he did n't think was involved , and had a friendly chat ?
Must 've been real important to find this vehicle similar to yours.If you think fred 's text was prickish , then you must be infuriated by the everyday behavior of people everywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The policeman was in such a rush to do his job that he stopped to talk to someone he didn't think was involved, and had a friendly chat?
Must've been real important to find this vehicle similar to yours.If you think fred's text was prickish, then you must be infuriated by the everyday behavior of people everywhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327844</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>squizzar</author>
	<datestamp>1267527660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that some judgement is necessary.  The UK police are driven entirely by targets (rather than the interest of the community) which means that they are desperate for arrests.  If you are arrested for something then being a reasonable person, 'helping them out', 'making it easier for yourself' etc. (e.g. answering questions or making statements in the absence of legal counsel) is a way of them shoring up their case against you without some pesky lawyer stopping you from incriminating yourself.</p><p>Contrast this with people who have regular dealings with the police, and know the system and how to minimise what the police can do to them.  In an ideal world some common sense would be used (and apparently was once) and someone who has otherwise been an upstanding member of the community would not have the book thrown at them by the police, whilst someone who was a regular trouble maker would have a more determined effort to seek prosecution made.  This is not the case, and if you are cooperative etc. that just means that you are making it easier for them to add a couple of other charges.</p><p>Obviously if you have done nothing wrong (as the poster above) then help them out because they know a waste of time when they see it, and they've got those damn targets to meet.  But if you have done something, then it really is in your best interests to make sure that you only get prosecuted for what you have actually done, not for what you somehow admitted to when you were helpfully answering questions.  It's like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.  One is legal and nigh on encouraged, the other isn't.  Like tax, if a prosecution is inevitable, that doesn't mean you're going to go out and look for as much of it as possible does it?</p><p>It is a shame that this is the state of affairs, but the police are not around to use common sense these days.  I have friends who are police officers, who have been told that 'we've solved enough rape cases this month, we need to catch up on shoplifters'.  Because that's what the community they would serve wants - numbers that add up - not for perhaps some violent sexual assailant to be jailed, but for some kids who stole some sweets to be put through the grinder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that some judgement is necessary .
The UK police are driven entirely by targets ( rather than the interest of the community ) which means that they are desperate for arrests .
If you are arrested for something then being a reasonable person , 'helping them out ' , 'making it easier for yourself ' etc .
( e.g. answering questions or making statements in the absence of legal counsel ) is a way of them shoring up their case against you without some pesky lawyer stopping you from incriminating yourself.Contrast this with people who have regular dealings with the police , and know the system and how to minimise what the police can do to them .
In an ideal world some common sense would be used ( and apparently was once ) and someone who has otherwise been an upstanding member of the community would not have the book thrown at them by the police , whilst someone who was a regular trouble maker would have a more determined effort to seek prosecution made .
This is not the case , and if you are cooperative etc .
that just means that you are making it easier for them to add a couple of other charges.Obviously if you have done nothing wrong ( as the poster above ) then help them out because they know a waste of time when they see it , and they 've got those damn targets to meet .
But if you have done something , then it really is in your best interests to make sure that you only get prosecuted for what you have actually done , not for what you somehow admitted to when you were helpfully answering questions .
It 's like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance .
One is legal and nigh on encouraged , the other is n't .
Like tax , if a prosecution is inevitable , that does n't mean you 're going to go out and look for as much of it as possible does it ? It is a shame that this is the state of affairs , but the police are not around to use common sense these days .
I have friends who are police officers , who have been told that 'we 've solved enough rape cases this month , we need to catch up on shoplifters' .
Because that 's what the community they would serve wants - numbers that add up - not for perhaps some violent sexual assailant to be jailed , but for some kids who stole some sweets to be put through the grinder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that some judgement is necessary.
The UK police are driven entirely by targets (rather than the interest of the community) which means that they are desperate for arrests.
If you are arrested for something then being a reasonable person, 'helping them out', 'making it easier for yourself' etc.
(e.g. answering questions or making statements in the absence of legal counsel) is a way of them shoring up their case against you without some pesky lawyer stopping you from incriminating yourself.Contrast this with people who have regular dealings with the police, and know the system and how to minimise what the police can do to them.
In an ideal world some common sense would be used (and apparently was once) and someone who has otherwise been an upstanding member of the community would not have the book thrown at them by the police, whilst someone who was a regular trouble maker would have a more determined effort to seek prosecution made.
This is not the case, and if you are cooperative etc.
that just means that you are making it easier for them to add a couple of other charges.Obviously if you have done nothing wrong (as the poster above) then help them out because they know a waste of time when they see it, and they've got those damn targets to meet.
But if you have done something, then it really is in your best interests to make sure that you only get prosecuted for what you have actually done, not for what you somehow admitted to when you were helpfully answering questions.
It's like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.
One is legal and nigh on encouraged, the other isn't.
Like tax, if a prosecution is inevitable, that doesn't mean you're going to go out and look for as much of it as possible does it?It is a shame that this is the state of affairs, but the police are not around to use common sense these days.
I have friends who are police officers, who have been told that 'we've solved enough rape cases this month, we need to catch up on shoplifters'.
Because that's what the community they would serve wants - numbers that add up - not for perhaps some violent sexual assailant to be jailed, but for some kids who stole some sweets to be put through the grinder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327658</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>BlackBloq</author>
	<datestamp>1267524900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The barbers hairs would have sharp cut ends like that made by scissors and no follicle. So he/she would have to pluck one or get a loose one. Walk bye plucking?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The barbers hairs would have sharp cut ends like that made by scissors and no follicle .
So he/she would have to pluck one or get a loose one .
Walk bye plucking ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The barbers hairs would have sharp cut ends like that made by scissors and no follicle.
So he/she would have to pluck one or get a loose one.
Walk bye plucking?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327694</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>Cassini2</author>
	<datestamp>1267525320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Police are allowed to participate in a ruse to gain the trust of a suspect.
</p><p>Make no mistake.  <b>You were a suspect in a murder case, until cleared.</b>  In a police investigation, everyone is a potential suspect.  As such, be careful what you volunteer, because until proven otherwise, you are a suspect and can be lied to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Police are allowed to participate in a ruse to gain the trust of a suspect .
Make no mistake .
You were a suspect in a murder case , until cleared .
In a police investigation , everyone is a potential suspect .
As such , be careful what you volunteer , because until proven otherwise , you are a suspect and can be lied to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Police are allowed to participate in a ruse to gain the trust of a suspect.
Make no mistake.
You were a suspect in a murder case, until cleared.
In a police investigation, everyone is a potential suspect.
As such, be careful what you volunteer, because until proven otherwise, you are a suspect and can be lied to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31339084</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267539360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way."</p><p>That statement is very damning for your case.  If the police displayed the professionalism that you claim, then why would pissing them off make any difference?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police , you wo n't run into one that you 've pissed off along the way .
" That statement is very damning for your case .
If the police displayed the professionalism that you claim , then why would pissing them off make any difference ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.
"That statement is very damning for your case.
If the police displayed the professionalism that you claim, then why would pissing them off make any difference?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327220</id>
	<title>You believed them when the promised?</title>
	<author>nedlohs</author>
	<datestamp>1267561680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327870</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267528380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are an idiot.</p><p>Currently we are a discussion on what rights there are around storing DNA in the UK. This will eventually find a sensible balance. It probably won't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court. In the meantime, the issue is discussed freely in the media, Parliament, the Lords and in Europe. This is not the illusions of freedom. This is freedom in a modern, mature democracy.</p><p>If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in trouble with the police in your 'free' former Soviet country, I hope you have sufficient money / contacts to get out of trouble.</p><p>Indications of the slashdot 'freedom' idiot:</p><p>1) Wittering on about security cameras. There are two options here, either you're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras, or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.</p><p>2) Quoting 1984. A book that you've obviously never read nor have the faintest idea of the contents of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are an idiot.Currently we are a discussion on what rights there are around storing DNA in the UK .
This will eventually find a sensible balance .
It probably wo n't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court .
In the meantime , the issue is discussed freely in the media , Parliament , the Lords and in Europe .
This is not the illusions of freedom .
This is freedom in a modern , mature democracy.If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in trouble with the police in your 'free ' former Soviet country , I hope you have sufficient money / contacts to get out of trouble.Indications of the slashdot 'freedom ' idiot : 1 ) Wittering on about security cameras .
There are two options here , either you 're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras , or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.2 ) Quoting 1984 .
A book that you 've obviously never read nor have the faintest idea of the contents of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are an idiot.Currently we are a discussion on what rights there are around storing DNA in the UK.
This will eventually find a sensible balance.
It probably won't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court.
In the meantime, the issue is discussed freely in the media, Parliament, the Lords and in Europe.
This is not the illusions of freedom.
This is freedom in a modern, mature democracy.If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in trouble with the police in your 'free' former Soviet country, I hope you have sufficient money / contacts to get out of trouble.Indications of the slashdot 'freedom' idiot:1) Wittering on about security cameras.
There are two options here, either you're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras, or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.2) Quoting 1984.
A book that you've obviously never read nor have the faintest idea of the contents of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327234</id>
	<title>Condition for Non-Retention</title>
	<author>kandela</author>
	<datestamp>1267561860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Data should not be retained if the condition of obtaining it was that it would not be retained. Anything else is immoral, and <i>should</i> be illegal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Data should not be retained if the condition of obtaining it was that it would not be retained .
Anything else is immoral , and should be illegal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Data should not be retained if the condition of obtaining it was that it would not be retained.
Anything else is immoral, and should be illegal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327392</id>
	<title>I invite police officers into my home every week</title>
	<author>zx2c4</author>
	<datestamp>1267520940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...for a nice game of fingerprint practice...

"In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample"

I believe, good sir, that your problem begins there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...for a nice game of fingerprint practice.. . " In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample " I believe , good sir , that your problem begins there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...for a nice game of fingerprint practice...

"In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample"

I believe, good sir, that your problem begins there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328538</id>
	<title>Never voluntarily cooperate with police/government</title>
	<author>WCMI92</author>
	<datestamp>1267537620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a sterling example as to why.  You never deal with them without an attorney, and you never give up anything like a DNA sample consensually.</p><p>For the life of me I never have understood why people have willingly accepted a system where it is a crime for a citizen to lie to the government, but the government lying to citizens is accepted as routine.</p><p>This sort of behavior not only discourages co-operation with the police, it pretty much MANDATES it.  This is why police associations themselves should be against this sort of thing, in the end it's going to make their jobs even harder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a sterling example as to why .
You never deal with them without an attorney , and you never give up anything like a DNA sample consensually.For the life of me I never have understood why people have willingly accepted a system where it is a crime for a citizen to lie to the government , but the government lying to citizens is accepted as routine.This sort of behavior not only discourages co-operation with the police , it pretty much MANDATES it .
This is why police associations themselves should be against this sort of thing , in the end it 's going to make their jobs even harder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a sterling example as to why.
You never deal with them without an attorney, and you never give up anything like a DNA sample consensually.For the life of me I never have understood why people have willingly accepted a system where it is a crime for a citizen to lie to the government, but the government lying to citizens is accepted as routine.This sort of behavior not only discourages co-operation with the police, it pretty much MANDATES it.
This is why police associations themselves should be against this sort of thing, in the end it's going to make their jobs even harder.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328074</id>
	<title>Heh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267530780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do you believe the cops? Just because they are cops?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do you believe the cops ?
Just because they are cops ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do you believe the cops?
Just because they are cops?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31331658</id>
	<title>Police will say anything</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267553340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Police are allowed to lie to you and in the US and, contrary to popular TV programming, don't always have to immediately read you your miranda rights (in fact will hold off doing so as long as possible).  This was in the UK, but the lesson is, if it's not criminally prosecutable for the police to lie in your country, they will lie to you.  Do not speak to the police, do not aid them in any way.  If they have a warrant (in the US, obviously) to search your property, object anyway, the warrant may later become invalid, but if you've invited them in because of it the search will stand.</p><p>Never believe what they say they are looking for.  The police in many countries are responsible for more abuse to the average citizen than most of the "criminals" they chase.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Police are allowed to lie to you and in the US and , contrary to popular TV programming , do n't always have to immediately read you your miranda rights ( in fact will hold off doing so as long as possible ) .
This was in the UK , but the lesson is , if it 's not criminally prosecutable for the police to lie in your country , they will lie to you .
Do not speak to the police , do not aid them in any way .
If they have a warrant ( in the US , obviously ) to search your property , object anyway , the warrant may later become invalid , but if you 've invited them in because of it the search will stand.Never believe what they say they are looking for .
The police in many countries are responsible for more abuse to the average citizen than most of the " criminals " they chase .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Police are allowed to lie to you and in the US and, contrary to popular TV programming, don't always have to immediately read you your miranda rights (in fact will hold off doing so as long as possible).
This was in the UK, but the lesson is, if it's not criminally prosecutable for the police to lie in your country, they will lie to you.
Do not speak to the police, do not aid them in any way.
If they have a warrant (in the US, obviously) to search your property, object anyway, the warrant may later become invalid, but if you've invited them in because of it the search will stand.Never believe what they say they are looking for.
The police in many countries are responsible for more abuse to the average citizen than most of the "criminals" they chase.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327782</id>
	<title>Monty Python</title>
	<author>caywen</author>
	<datestamp>1267526820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pity - Monty Python would have had a field day with this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pity - Monty Python would have had a field day with this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pity - Monty Python would have had a field day with this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328900</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1267540320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It probably won't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court.</i></p><p>No, it already was resolved, by European courts ruling the retention of DNA to be illegal. What's changed? Nothing.</p><p><i> In the meantime, the issue is discussed freely in the media, Parliament, the Lords and in Europe. </i></p><p>Oh that's okay then, it can be "discussed". What good does that do?</p><p>This is not an isolated case either - from <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8434713.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8434713.stm</a> [bbc.co.uk] , "The average removal rate is only 22\%, with six forces not removing any."</p><p>I have no idea if the OP's comparison to the country he lives in his valid, but I'll take the opinion of someone who's lived in both countries, over you.</p><p><i>There are two options here, either you're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras, or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.</i></p><p>If they're so useless, what's the point in having them? And evidence that they reduce crime by deterrence? And where do you get the idea that no one other than the OP disagrees with them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It probably wo n't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court.No , it already was resolved , by European courts ruling the retention of DNA to be illegal .
What 's changed ?
Nothing. In the meantime , the issue is discussed freely in the media , Parliament , the Lords and in Europe .
Oh that 's okay then , it can be " discussed " .
What good does that do ? This is not an isolated case either - from http : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8434713.stm [ bbc.co.uk ] , " The average removal rate is only 22 \ % , with six forces not removing any .
" I have no idea if the OP 's comparison to the country he lives in his valid , but I 'll take the opinion of someone who 's lived in both countries , over you.There are two options here , either you 're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras , or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.If they 're so useless , what 's the point in having them ?
And evidence that they reduce crime by deterrence ?
And where do you get the idea that no one other than the OP disagrees with them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It probably won't be resolved until someone has their improperly collected DNA used against them in a court.No, it already was resolved, by European courts ruling the retention of DNA to be illegal.
What's changed?
Nothing. In the meantime, the issue is discussed freely in the media, Parliament, the Lords and in Europe.
Oh that's okay then, it can be "discussed".
What good does that do?This is not an isolated case either - from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8434713.stm [bbc.co.uk] , "The average removal rate is only 22\%, with six forces not removing any.
"I have no idea if the OP's comparison to the country he lives in his valid, but I'll take the opinion of someone who's lived in both countries, over you.There are two options here, either you're so much cleverer than everyone else who has failed to spot / understand the potential problems with the cameras, or everybody else knows that they are so useless that their only use is to deter chavs.If they're so useless, what's the point in having them?
And evidence that they reduce crime by deterrence?
And where do you get the idea that no one other than the OP disagrees with them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327870</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327982</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>xous</author>
	<datestamp>1267529580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Once burned twice shy.

Operating on the assumption that cops are out to screw you might let a few criminals run free to be caught buy I feel my freedom is worth such a risk.

Should we do away with warrants, trials, and human rights simply because it's the most expedient method of insuring "criminals" are behind bars? I think not.

<p>"Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way."</p><p>You make it sound like they are doing this out of some sort of benevolence. We pay for our police service via our taxes. If they get pissy and refuse to do their job because we exercise our rights they should be fired if not imprisoned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once burned twice shy .
Operating on the assumption that cops are out to screw you might let a few criminals run free to be caught buy I feel my freedom is worth such a risk .
Should we do away with warrants , trials , and human rights simply because it 's the most expedient method of insuring " criminals " are behind bars ?
I think not .
" Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police , you wo n't run into one that you 've pissed off along the way .
" You make it sound like they are doing this out of some sort of benevolence .
We pay for our police service via our taxes .
If they get pissy and refuse to do their job because we exercise our rights they should be fired if not imprisoned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once burned twice shy.
Operating on the assumption that cops are out to screw you might let a few criminals run free to be caught buy I feel my freedom is worth such a risk.
Should we do away with warrants, trials, and human rights simply because it's the most expedient method of insuring "criminals" are behind bars?
I think not.
"Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.
"You make it sound like they are doing this out of some sort of benevolence.
We pay for our police service via our taxes.
If they get pissy and refuse to do their job because we exercise our rights they should be fired if not imprisoned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327572</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267523640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about you but I don't give my name and number to my barber. I also pay in cash only.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about you but I do n't give my name and number to my barber .
I also pay in cash only .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about you but I don't give my name and number to my barber.
I also pay in cash only.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329250</id>
	<title>Thank Goodness for the 5th Amendment in the US</title>
	<author>ChemGeek4501</author>
	<datestamp>1267542480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professor James Duane at Regents Law School has a very interesting video regarding the U.S. 5th Amendment and the right not to incriminate oneself.  It's on Google Video, "Don't Talk to Police" by James Duane.  The URL is pretty lengthy to cut/paste here - but I recommend it highly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professor James Duane at Regents Law School has a very interesting video regarding the U.S. 5th Amendment and the right not to incriminate oneself .
It 's on Google Video , " Do n't Talk to Police " by James Duane .
The URL is pretty lengthy to cut/paste here - but I recommend it highly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professor James Duane at Regents Law School has a very interesting video regarding the U.S. 5th Amendment and the right not to incriminate oneself.
It's on Google Video, "Don't Talk to Police" by James Duane.
The URL is pretty lengthy to cut/paste here - but I recommend it highly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327728</id>
	<title>ref no</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267525920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And when you do genuinely need the police's help. They just give you a reference number!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And when you do genuinely need the police 's help .
They just give you a reference number !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And when you do genuinely need the police's help.
They just give you a reference number!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327626</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267524300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you talk to the police without consul, (...) If so please provide consul. If not have a nice day!</p></div><p>It may be because of your insistance to have a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consul\_(representative)" title="wikipedia.org">Consul</a> [wikipedia.org] present rather than <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counsel" title="wikipedia.org">Counsel</a> [wikipedia.org]. Then again, if you don't know the difference not talking without one is most wise.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk to the police without consul , ( ... ) If so please provide consul .
If not have a nice day ! It may be because of your insistance to have a Consul [ wikipedia.org ] present rather than Counsel [ wikipedia.org ] .
Then again , if you do n't know the difference not talking without one is most wise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk to the police without consul, (...) If so please provide consul.
If not have a nice day!It may be because of your insistance to have a Consul [wikipedia.org] present rather than Counsel [wikipedia.org].
Then again, if you don't know the difference not talking without one is most wise.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327586</id>
	<title>How can someone be so stupid...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267523820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>.. and then come here and post on slashdot?  It's like telling a stranger- Here's my bank account and credit card details, along with all my passwords.  I trust you completely.  Another thing one must never do is give out personal passwords (like email, facebook) to a spouse.  No good can ever come of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>.. and then come here and post on slashdot ?
It 's like telling a stranger- Here 's my bank account and credit card details , along with all my passwords .
I trust you completely .
Another thing one must never do is give out personal passwords ( like email , facebook ) to a spouse .
No good can ever come of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. and then come here and post on slashdot?
It's like telling a stranger- Here's my bank account and credit card details, along with all my passwords.
I trust you completely.
Another thing one must never do is give out personal passwords (like email, facebook) to a spouse.
No good can ever come of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328804</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Calinous</author>
	<datestamp>1267539780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can benefit in some cases (maybe even the most of the cases), but you stand to lose (quite a lot) in some other cases.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The best move (although not the winning move) is to not volunteer anything, and have a legal representative nearby.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can benefit in some cases ( maybe even the most of the cases ) , but you stand to lose ( quite a lot ) in some other cases .
      The best move ( although not the winning move ) is to not volunteer anything , and have a legal representative nearby .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can benefit in some cases (maybe even the most of the cases), but you stand to lose (quite a lot) in some other cases.
      The best move (although not the winning move) is to not volunteer anything, and have a legal representative nearby.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327762</id>
	<title>British police</title>
	<author>dugeen</author>
	<datestamp>1267526520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>One good thing about the New Labour gleichshaltung is that British people have largely lost the trust in the police that they used to have. The way the police have behaved over DNA, and over the Stockwell killing, and the way they've treated anti-war demonstrators, have all had their effect. As Joe Orton pointed out, it's a far healthier society when people have a proper wariness of the police.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One good thing about the New Labour gleichshaltung is that British people have largely lost the trust in the police that they used to have .
The way the police have behaved over DNA , and over the Stockwell killing , and the way they 've treated anti-war demonstrators , have all had their effect .
As Joe Orton pointed out , it 's a far healthier society when people have a proper wariness of the police .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One good thing about the New Labour gleichshaltung is that British people have largely lost the trust in the police that they used to have.
The way the police have behaved over DNA, and over the Stockwell killing, and the way they've treated anti-war demonstrators, have all had their effect.
As Joe Orton pointed out, it's a far healthier society when people have a proper wariness of the police.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328676</id>
	<title>Re:its on record till your 100th birthday</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1267538760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&amp;searchEnacted=0&amp;extentMatchOnly=0&amp;confersPower=0&amp;blanketAmendment=0&amp;sortAlpha=0&amp;PageNumber=0&amp;NavFrom=0&amp;parentActiveTextDocId=1871554&amp;ActiveTextDocId=1871641&amp;filesize=50144" title="statutelaw.gov.uk">Section 64 PACE 1984</a> [statutelaw.gov.uk].</p><p>Note particularly paras 3, 3AA and 3AB.  The net effect is that they can retain the DNA, but can't use it in any new investigations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Section 64 PACE 1984 [ statutelaw.gov.uk ] .Note particularly paras 3 , 3AA and 3AB .
The net effect is that they can retain the DNA , but ca n't use it in any new investigations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Section 64 PACE 1984 [statutelaw.gov.uk].Note particularly paras 3, 3AA and 3AB.
The net effect is that they can retain the DNA, but can't use it in any new investigations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330516</id>
	<title>Re:England is not the same as UK</title>
	<author>Totenglocke</author>
	<datestamp>1267548420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>DNA samples, and profiles, are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in Scotland</p></div><p>Or at least that's what the public are told.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>DNA samples , and profiles , are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in ScotlandOr at least that 's what the public are told .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DNA samples, and profiles, are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in ScotlandOr at least that's what the public are told.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329874</id>
	<title>Re:Condition for Non-Retention</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267545480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Anything else is immoral, and should be illegal.<br></i><br>There's nothing immoral about smoking marijuana, but it's illegal. There's nothing illegal about adultery, but it's immoral. Since when has there been any connection between "legal" and "moral"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anything else is immoral , and should be illegal.There 's nothing immoral about smoking marijuana , but it 's illegal .
There 's nothing illegal about adultery , but it 's immoral .
Since when has there been any connection between " legal " and " moral " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anything else is immoral, and should be illegal.There's nothing immoral about smoking marijuana, but it's illegal.
There's nothing illegal about adultery, but it's immoral.
Since when has there been any connection between "legal" and "moral"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328274</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267533540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed. Almost everybody on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc. in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...</p></div><p>It probably wouldn't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not. The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they don't have the cooperation of their victims. I'm speaking universally here. The concept of "search warrants" for ANY country is a rather dubious legal claim when the authorities have so many excuses to disregard civil liberties.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed .
Almost everybody on / .
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites , backups , archived data , etc .
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...It probably would n't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not .
The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they do n't have the cooperation of their victims .
I 'm speaking universally here .
The concept of " search warrants " for ANY country is a rather dubious legal claim when the authorities have so many excuses to disregard civil liberties .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed.
Almost everybody on /.
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc.
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...It probably wouldn't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not.
The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they don't have the cooperation of their victims.
I'm speaking universally here.
The concept of "search warrants" for ANY country is a rather dubious legal claim when the authorities have so many excuses to disregard civil liberties.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327242</id>
	<title>Not you friend.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267561980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must understand despite what you have been led to believe the police are not your friend. They are a necessary evil. Never trust them or allow them into your home without a warrant. Limit your responses to them simple yes or no if you are forced to talk with them.</p><p>A policeman's job is to arrest people and put them in jail. They understand this quite well. You must as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must understand despite what you have been led to believe the police are not your friend .
They are a necessary evil .
Never trust them or allow them into your home without a warrant .
Limit your responses to them simple yes or no if you are forced to talk with them.A policeman 's job is to arrest people and put them in jail .
They understand this quite well .
You must as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must understand despite what you have been led to believe the police are not your friend.
They are a necessary evil.
Never trust them or allow them into your home without a warrant.
Limit your responses to them simple yes or no if you are forced to talk with them.A policeman's job is to arrest people and put them in jail.
They understand this quite well.
You must as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1267528560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>UK citizens: <b>Ignore the advice in this video. It is accurate for the US legal system, not the UK legal system.</b> <br> <br>I've watched the whole thing before, and there are so many items in the video that simply do not apply that the whole thing should be ignored. Hell, the very first frame you see is regarding the Fifth Amendment: <b>We don't have a constitution.</b> <br> <br>Do you want advice on how to deal with the police in the UK? Go to Citizen's Advice. The internet has some basics, but they're not comprehensive.<br>Do you want instructions on how to handle arrest? That's easy: Comply. Do nothing to resist. Listen to everything that is said. As soon as you're arrested, say nothing about the reason for your arrest. Not "I didn't do it!" not "It was that guy!" There will be time for this later, <b>after you've spoken to a solicitor</b>.<br> <br>Confirm personal details at the station, <b>nothing more</b>, and when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative. It's because you've not done this before, and want everything to be done right. Law is complex. Late at night (if required) this might be a phone call, but you can still request a solicitor to attend in person. Usually this will be the next day, which is good. Try and get some sleep; You can't go anywhere or do anything, and talking to anyone is a bad idea.<br> <br>IANAL, IANYL, this is not legal advice etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>UK citizens : Ignore the advice in this video .
It is accurate for the US legal system , not the UK legal system .
I 've watched the whole thing before , and there are so many items in the video that simply do not apply that the whole thing should be ignored .
Hell , the very first frame you see is regarding the Fifth Amendment : We do n't have a constitution .
Do you want advice on how to deal with the police in the UK ?
Go to Citizen 's Advice .
The internet has some basics , but they 're not comprehensive.Do you want instructions on how to handle arrest ?
That 's easy : Comply .
Do nothing to resist .
Listen to everything that is said .
As soon as you 're arrested , say nothing about the reason for your arrest .
Not " I did n't do it !
" not " It was that guy !
" There will be time for this later , after you 've spoken to a solicitor .
Confirm personal details at the station , nothing more , and when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative .
It 's because you 've not done this before , and want everything to be done right .
Law is complex .
Late at night ( if required ) this might be a phone call , but you can still request a solicitor to attend in person .
Usually this will be the next day , which is good .
Try and get some sleep ; You ca n't go anywhere or do anything , and talking to anyone is a bad idea .
IANAL , IANYL , this is not legal advice etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UK citizens: Ignore the advice in this video.
It is accurate for the US legal system, not the UK legal system.
I've watched the whole thing before, and there are so many items in the video that simply do not apply that the whole thing should be ignored.
Hell, the very first frame you see is regarding the Fifth Amendment: We don't have a constitution.
Do you want advice on how to deal with the police in the UK?
Go to Citizen's Advice.
The internet has some basics, but they're not comprehensive.Do you want instructions on how to handle arrest?
That's easy: Comply.
Do nothing to resist.
Listen to everything that is said.
As soon as you're arrested, say nothing about the reason for your arrest.
Not "I didn't do it!
" not "It was that guy!
" There will be time for this later, after you've spoken to a solicitor.
Confirm personal details at the station, nothing more, and when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative.
It's because you've not done this before, and want everything to be done right.
Law is complex.
Late at night (if required) this might be a phone call, but you can still request a solicitor to attend in person.
Usually this will be the next day, which is good.
Try and get some sleep; You can't go anywhere or do anything, and talking to anyone is a bad idea.
IANAL, IANYL, this is not legal advice etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31344908</id>
	<title>Re:You believed them when the promised?</title>
	<author>nedlohs</author>
	<datestamp>1267629240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because I live in the real world.</p><p>I don't get to choose who gets given guns (and the discretion to use lethal force).</p><p>Society has decided (since there is no outcry over it) that since lying helps them "solve" cases they can do it as they please.</p><p>Just like society has decided that it is OK for politicians to lie and doesn't expect them to actually do what they said they would - since they elect them again next time.</p><p>Ask 20 random people "should a police officer be allowed to lie to a terrorist suspect in order to get information from them? How about a murder suspect?" I suspect most will say "yes and yes". So here they are lying (about keeping the data) in order to get DNA information from a suspect.</p><p>And yes, he was a suspect, they were not trying to eliminate some of dozens of DNA samples they found at the scene. They were trying to find who did it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because I live in the real world.I do n't get to choose who gets given guns ( and the discretion to use lethal force ) .Society has decided ( since there is no outcry over it ) that since lying helps them " solve " cases they can do it as they please.Just like society has decided that it is OK for politicians to lie and does n't expect them to actually do what they said they would - since they elect them again next time.Ask 20 random people " should a police officer be allowed to lie to a terrorist suspect in order to get information from them ?
How about a murder suspect ?
" I suspect most will say " yes and yes " .
So here they are lying ( about keeping the data ) in order to get DNA information from a suspect.And yes , he was a suspect , they were not trying to eliminate some of dozens of DNA samples they found at the scene .
They were trying to find who did it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because I live in the real world.I don't get to choose who gets given guns (and the discretion to use lethal force).Society has decided (since there is no outcry over it) that since lying helps them "solve" cases they can do it as they please.Just like society has decided that it is OK for politicians to lie and doesn't expect them to actually do what they said they would - since they elect them again next time.Ask 20 random people "should a police officer be allowed to lie to a terrorist suspect in order to get information from them?
How about a murder suspect?
" I suspect most will say "yes and yes".
So here they are lying (about keeping the data) in order to get DNA information from a suspect.And yes, he was a suspect, they were not trying to eliminate some of dozens of DNA samples they found at the scene.
They were trying to find who did it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330296</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267547520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mostly good advice there, sir. But let me throw in a quick nugget on top of that.</p><p>Do not go asleep if you can help it.</p><p>Way way too many cops (and UK police too) seem to believe this urban legend about how only guilty people can sleep after being arrested.<br>Because they know the worst has already happened to them.<br>They think the innocent ones are constantly pacing and in fear, because they KNOW they don't belong there.</p><p>Do you really want to set the cop to thinking "Well, this guy is clearly guilty" ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mostly good advice there , sir .
But let me throw in a quick nugget on top of that.Do not go asleep if you can help it.Way way too many cops ( and UK police too ) seem to believe this urban legend about how only guilty people can sleep after being arrested.Because they know the worst has already happened to them.They think the innocent ones are constantly pacing and in fear , because they KNOW they do n't belong there.Do you really want to set the cop to thinking " Well , this guy is clearly guilty " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mostly good advice there, sir.
But let me throw in a quick nugget on top of that.Do not go asleep if you can help it.Way way too many cops (and UK police too) seem to believe this urban legend about how only guilty people can sleep after being arrested.Because they know the worst has already happened to them.They think the innocent ones are constantly pacing and in fear, because they KNOW they don't belong there.Do you really want to set the cop to thinking "Well, this guy is clearly guilty" ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330136</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>TheCarp</author>
	<datestamp>1267546740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually its quite easy to do exactly that....</p><p>You place severe criminal penalties on NOT doing it, and the technical people involved will not only figure out how to do it, they will figure out how to change their process from the ground up so that it can be done more easily.</p><p>There, problem solved.</p><p>I have given this issue some thought before and I think that this would be a ripe area for some activism. If I were asked for such a sample, I would happily agree, so long as the police department, and officers involved signed an agreement that they would be jointly and separately responsible for making sure that my samples and all data about those samples would be destroyed within a specific time period, or else severe penalties would be paid to me.</p><p>Secondly, I would want papers, by the DA, granting me immunity from being prosecuted for any crime other than the one at issue, from this particular evidence.</p><p>If they plan to destroy the samples, then they should have no problem making such an agreement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually its quite easy to do exactly that....You place severe criminal penalties on NOT doing it , and the technical people involved will not only figure out how to do it , they will figure out how to change their process from the ground up so that it can be done more easily.There , problem solved.I have given this issue some thought before and I think that this would be a ripe area for some activism .
If I were asked for such a sample , I would happily agree , so long as the police department , and officers involved signed an agreement that they would be jointly and separately responsible for making sure that my samples and all data about those samples would be destroyed within a specific time period , or else severe penalties would be paid to me.Secondly , I would want papers , by the DA , granting me immunity from being prosecuted for any crime other than the one at issue , from this particular evidence.If they plan to destroy the samples , then they should have no problem making such an agreement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually its quite easy to do exactly that....You place severe criminal penalties on NOT doing it, and the technical people involved will not only figure out how to do it, they will figure out how to change their process from the ground up so that it can be done more easily.There, problem solved.I have given this issue some thought before and I think that this would be a ripe area for some activism.
If I were asked for such a sample, I would happily agree, so long as the police department, and officers involved signed an agreement that they would be jointly and separately responsible for making sure that my samples and all data about those samples would be destroyed within a specific time period, or else severe penalties would be paid to me.Secondly, I would want papers, by the DA, granting me immunity from being prosecuted for any crime other than the one at issue, from this particular evidence.If they plan to destroy the samples, then they should have no problem making such an agreement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328050</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>jcr</author>
	<datestamp>1267530480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You said:  <i> Ignore the advice in this video. It is accurate for the US legal system, not the UK legal system.</i></p><p>and then you said:  <i>when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative.</i></p><p>Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to.  The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police.</p><p>-jcr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You said : Ignore the advice in this video .
It is accurate for the US legal system , not the UK legal system.and then you said : when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative.Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to .
The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police.-jcr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You said:   Ignore the advice in this video.
It is accurate for the US legal system, not the UK legal system.and then you said:  when asked state politely but firmly that you can not answer any questions regarding your arrest or enter an interview room until you have spoken to a professional legal representative.Which is exactly the same advice given in the video I linked to.
The key point is that you can not benefit from volunteering information to the police.-jcr</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328162</id>
	<title>England is not the same as UK</title>
	<author>augustw</author>
	<datestamp>1267531860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The headline is incorrect: it's not UK police, it's <b>English</b> Police who hold onto DNA. DNA samples, and profiles, are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in Scotland, which is a quite distinct legal jurisdiction from England.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The headline is incorrect : it 's not UK police , it 's English Police who hold onto DNA .
DNA samples , and profiles , are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in Scotland , which is a quite distinct legal jurisdiction from England .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The headline is incorrect: it's not UK police, it's English Police who hold onto DNA.
DNA samples, and profiles, are routinely destroyed at the end of the relevant enquiry in Scotland, which is a quite distinct legal jurisdiction from England.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327636</id>
	<title>DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267524540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, I'm not British, so I don't know if the have something equivalent to the 5th amendment, but DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE once they start questions about you or what you were doing or anything like that.  Don't justify yourself, don't argue with them, don't try to be their friends.  Just STFU.  And giving them DNA/fingerprints is like telling them your life story - it's not a good idea ever, voluntarily.</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I 'm not British , so I do n't know if the have something equivalent to the 5th amendment , but DO N'T TALK TO THE POLICE once they start questions about you or what you were doing or anything like that .
Do n't justify yourself , do n't argue with them , do n't try to be their friends .
Just STFU .
And giving them DNA/fingerprints is like telling them your life story - it 's not a good idea ever , voluntarily.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 6wXkI4t7nuc [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I'm not British, so I don't know if the have something equivalent to the 5th amendment, but DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE once they start questions about you or what you were doing or anything like that.
Don't justify yourself, don't argue with them, don't try to be their friends.
Just STFU.
And giving them DNA/fingerprints is like telling them your life story - it's not a good idea ever, voluntarily.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328712</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1267539120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Correction: it exists <em>if you believe in it hard enough</em>.  If you don't believe in it, children, then President Peter can't even wipe his arse with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Correction : it exists if you believe in it hard enough .
If you do n't believe in it , children , then President Peter ca n't even wipe his arse with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Correction: it exists if you believe in it hard enough.
If you don't believe in it, children, then President Peter can't even wipe his arse with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327770</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267526640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This isn't the first time the police have lied.</p></div><p>This is not Insightful, it is common knowledge. Just about every police force in the world; third world or developed, are almost always perpetually authoritarian in nature, and will lie, steel and cheat to back up their colleagues in collusion.</p><p>There are numerous interviews and psychological profiles that you have to pass in order to get into the police force (in Canada at least, and I presume places like Britain as well). If you are HONEST then you will likely end up like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank\_Serpico" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Serpico</a> [wikipedia.org] (NYPD) or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard\_Barlow" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Richard Barlow</a> [wikipedia.org] (of the CIA). They don't just let anybody in. You need to be despicable and have an aura of authority and leadership in your demeanor (or, at the very least, have an <i>average</i> enough IQ that you notice or stir shit when it happens). You need to be able to Think of the Children and the Public Safety when controlling people. Clearly not all police officers are corrupt. But chances are excellent that if they advanced in their careers they have gotten away with a LOT. It's a psychological fact that Leaders of Corporations tend to have psychopathic personalities (a fact that became well known by the documentary <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Corporation" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">The Corporation</a> [wikipedia.org]). The same appears to be true of police departments. Not to long ago I remember the head of the RCMP (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano\_Zaccardelli" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Giuliano Zaccardelli</a> [wikipedia.org]) was forced to resign because of NUMEROUS corruption related incidents. He later got a job with a UN agency. It's a nasty business, protecting the public, especially if you happen to be a member of the public. There are so many incidents of police corruption in high places that I can think of (the ones that have been reported by the media), I wish I had the heart to spend a few hours and describe them here. It's depressing. It amazes me that the "outstanding" and revered and overpaid members of society are (almost) always corrupt, immoral and incompetent.</p><p>Disclaimer: I am NOT a cop, but I have known cops (and wannabe-cops).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't the first time the police have lied.This is not Insightful , it is common knowledge .
Just about every police force in the world ; third world or developed , are almost always perpetually authoritarian in nature , and will lie , steel and cheat to back up their colleagues in collusion.There are numerous interviews and psychological profiles that you have to pass in order to get into the police force ( in Canada at least , and I presume places like Britain as well ) .
If you are HONEST then you will likely end up like Serpico [ wikipedia.org ] ( NYPD ) or Richard Barlow [ wikipedia.org ] ( of the CIA ) .
They do n't just let anybody in .
You need to be despicable and have an aura of authority and leadership in your demeanor ( or , at the very least , have an average enough IQ that you notice or stir shit when it happens ) .
You need to be able to Think of the Children and the Public Safety when controlling people .
Clearly not all police officers are corrupt .
But chances are excellent that if they advanced in their careers they have gotten away with a LOT .
It 's a psychological fact that Leaders of Corporations tend to have psychopathic personalities ( a fact that became well known by the documentary The Corporation [ wikipedia.org ] ) .
The same appears to be true of police departments .
Not to long ago I remember the head of the RCMP ( Giuliano Zaccardelli [ wikipedia.org ] ) was forced to resign because of NUMEROUS corruption related incidents .
He later got a job with a UN agency .
It 's a nasty business , protecting the public , especially if you happen to be a member of the public .
There are so many incidents of police corruption in high places that I can think of ( the ones that have been reported by the media ) , I wish I had the heart to spend a few hours and describe them here .
It 's depressing .
It amazes me that the " outstanding " and revered and overpaid members of society are ( almost ) always corrupt , immoral and incompetent.Disclaimer : I am NOT a cop , but I have known cops ( and wannabe-cops ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't the first time the police have lied.This is not Insightful, it is common knowledge.
Just about every police force in the world; third world or developed, are almost always perpetually authoritarian in nature, and will lie, steel and cheat to back up their colleagues in collusion.There are numerous interviews and psychological profiles that you have to pass in order to get into the police force (in Canada at least, and I presume places like Britain as well).
If you are HONEST then you will likely end up like Serpico [wikipedia.org] (NYPD) or Richard Barlow [wikipedia.org] (of the CIA).
They don't just let anybody in.
You need to be despicable and have an aura of authority and leadership in your demeanor (or, at the very least, have an average enough IQ that you notice or stir shit when it happens).
You need to be able to Think of the Children and the Public Safety when controlling people.
Clearly not all police officers are corrupt.
But chances are excellent that if they advanced in their careers they have gotten away with a LOT.
It's a psychological fact that Leaders of Corporations tend to have psychopathic personalities (a fact that became well known by the documentary The Corporation [wikipedia.org]).
The same appears to be true of police departments.
Not to long ago I remember the head of the RCMP (Giuliano Zaccardelli [wikipedia.org]) was forced to resign because of NUMEROUS corruption related incidents.
He later got a job with a UN agency.
It's a nasty business, protecting the public, especially if you happen to be a member of the public.
There are so many incidents of police corruption in high places that I can think of (the ones that have been reported by the media), I wish I had the heart to spend a few hours and describe them here.
It's depressing.
It amazes me that the "outstanding" and revered and overpaid members of society are (almost) always corrupt, immoral and incompetent.Disclaimer: I am NOT a cop, but I have known cops (and wannabe-cops).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31331452</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1267552560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the US, police are allowed to lie. They can take you in to the station for a polite chat, turn the tape recorder on, and <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2842/what-can-the-police-lie-about-while-conducting-an-interrogation" title="straightdope.com">lie on tape that they have a witness who swears that he saw you do it</a> [straightdope.com]. The only thing they can't do is threaten you with extrinsic, coercive consequences if you don't talk.</p><p>This is one of the reasons why you should <a href="http://lawiscool.com/2009/04/16/why-you-should-never-talk-to-the-police/" title="lawiscool.com">never talk to the police</a> [lawiscool.com] without a lawyer.</p><p>In the UK, the situation is slightly worse: Not only can the police lie to you, they can also tell you that you may face consequences at trial if you remain silent. However, as in the US, they cannot threaten you by saying they'll do something unless you answer. For full details, see <a href="http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/operational-policing/powers-pace-codes/pace-code-intro/" title="homeoffice.gov.uk">PACE Code C</a> [homeoffice.gov.uk], particularly section 11.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US , police are allowed to lie .
They can take you in to the station for a polite chat , turn the tape recorder on , and lie on tape that they have a witness who swears that he saw you do it [ straightdope.com ] .
The only thing they ca n't do is threaten you with extrinsic , coercive consequences if you do n't talk.This is one of the reasons why you should never talk to the police [ lawiscool.com ] without a lawyer.In the UK , the situation is slightly worse : Not only can the police lie to you , they can also tell you that you may face consequences at trial if you remain silent .
However , as in the US , they can not threaten you by saying they 'll do something unless you answer .
For full details , see PACE Code C [ homeoffice.gov.uk ] , particularly section 11 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US, police are allowed to lie.
They can take you in to the station for a polite chat, turn the tape recorder on, and lie on tape that they have a witness who swears that he saw you do it [straightdope.com].
The only thing they can't do is threaten you with extrinsic, coercive consequences if you don't talk.This is one of the reasons why you should never talk to the police [lawiscool.com] without a lawyer.In the UK, the situation is slightly worse: Not only can the police lie to you, they can also tell you that you may face consequences at trial if you remain silent.
However, as in the US, they cannot threaten you by saying they'll do something unless you answer.
For full details, see PACE Code C [homeoffice.gov.uk], particularly section 11.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327484</id>
	<title>Voluntarily, huh?</title>
	<author>MasterPatricko</author>
	<datestamp>1267522320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample</p></div><p>There's support groups for this kind of thing, don't keep it hidden all your life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sampleThere 's support groups for this kind of thing , do n't keep it hidden all your life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sampleThere's support groups for this kind of thing, don't keep it hidden all your life.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328300</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1267534020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We don't have a constitution.</p></div> </blockquote><p>A common misconception, but in fact we do - it just isn't collected into one tidy document like the US one.  In fact, parts of it aren't written down anywhere.</p><p>Nonetheless, it does exist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We do n't have a constitution .
A common misconception , but in fact we do - it just is n't collected into one tidy document like the US one .
In fact , parts of it are n't written down anywhere.Nonetheless , it does exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We don't have a constitution.
A common misconception, but in fact we do - it just isn't collected into one tidy document like the US one.
In fact, parts of it aren't written down anywhere.Nonetheless, it does exist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327824</id>
	<title>Of course you were under suspicion!</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1267527420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation. I was never under any suspicion...</p></div><p>Of course you were under suspicion - they just didn't have enough evidence to get a warrant to force you to give up your DNA so they bamboozled you into doing it voluntarily.  Of course they kept it on file, they were suspicous enough of you to request a DNA sample thus you are under permanent suspicion for the rest of your life and probably a ways beyond.</p><p>What you did was the equivalent of getting pulled over by a cop and when he looks in your car window and doesn't see anything to justify a search , instead of letting you go on your way, he asks you if he can go ahead and search your car anyway and you said yes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation , as they 'd promised it would only be used for that investigation .
I was never under any suspicion...Of course you were under suspicion - they just did n't have enough evidence to get a warrant to force you to give up your DNA so they bamboozled you into doing it voluntarily .
Of course they kept it on file , they were suspicous enough of you to request a DNA sample thus you are under permanent suspicion for the rest of your life and probably a ways beyond.What you did was the equivalent of getting pulled over by a cop and when he looks in your car window and does n't see anything to justify a search , instead of letting you go on your way , he asks you if he can go ahead and search your car anyway and you said yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation.
I was never under any suspicion...Of course you were under suspicion - they just didn't have enough evidence to get a warrant to force you to give up your DNA so they bamboozled you into doing it voluntarily.
Of course they kept it on file, they were suspicous enough of you to request a DNA sample thus you are under permanent suspicion for the rest of your life and probably a ways beyond.What you did was the equivalent of getting pulled over by a cop and when he looks in your car window and doesn't see anything to justify a search , instead of letting you go on your way, he asks you if he can go ahead and search your car anyway and you said yes.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328044</id>
	<title>Where have you been?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267530420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where has the original OP [b]been[/b]? Stories about the "DNA Database" have been plastered all over the news and related sites such as The Register (UK) for months. Here's some examples;</p><p>[url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04/dna\_pioneer\_lambasts\_database/[/url]<br>[quote]"Currently, everybody arrested in England and Wales has to provide a DNA sample, and the government has been heavily criticised for retaining profiles of people not charged or found innocent. The European Court of Human Rights ruled against the policy of indefinite retention in late 2008."[/quote]</p><p>[url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/dna\_pnc/[/url]</p><p>[quote]Police will continue to retain the personal details of everyone they arrest, despite a human rights ruling meaning the DNA profiles they are linked to must be deleted."[/quote]</p><p>You can't be [b]that[/b] bothered about his DNA retention, after all you gave it up voluntarily without even being a suspect and without knowing the laws or what the police would do with it!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where has the original OP [ b ] been [ /b ] ?
Stories about the " DNA Database " have been plastered all over the news and related sites such as The Register ( UK ) for months .
Here 's some examples ; [ url ] http : //www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04/dna \ _pioneer \ _lambasts \ _database/ [ /url ] [ quote ] " Currently , everybody arrested in England and Wales has to provide a DNA sample , and the government has been heavily criticised for retaining profiles of people not charged or found innocent .
The European Court of Human Rights ruled against the policy of indefinite retention in late 2008 .
" [ /quote ] [ url ] http : //www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/dna \ _pnc/ [ /url ] [ quote ] Police will continue to retain the personal details of everyone they arrest , despite a human rights ruling meaning the DNA profiles they are linked to must be deleted .
" [ /quote ] You ca n't be [ b ] that [ /b ] bothered about his DNA retention , after all you gave it up voluntarily without even being a suspect and without knowing the laws or what the police would do with it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where has the original OP [b]been[/b]?
Stories about the "DNA Database" have been plastered all over the news and related sites such as The Register (UK) for months.
Here's some examples;[url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04/dna\_pioneer\_lambasts\_database/[/url][quote]"Currently, everybody arrested in England and Wales has to provide a DNA sample, and the government has been heavily criticised for retaining profiles of people not charged or found innocent.
The European Court of Human Rights ruled against the policy of indefinite retention in late 2008.
"[/quote][url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/dna\_pnc/[/url][quote]Police will continue to retain the personal details of everyone they arrest, despite a human rights ruling meaning the DNA profiles they are linked to must be deleted.
"[/quote]You can't be [b]that[/b] bothered about his DNA retention, after all you gave it up voluntarily without even being a suspect and without knowing the laws or what the police would do with it!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>jamesh</author>
	<datestamp>1267524600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you talk to the police without consul, during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot, not honest or friendly.</p></div><p>Bullshit. You just make it harder for them to do their job. Sure there are cops who are crooks, or just jerks, but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman. Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.</p><p>We had a policeman knock on our door a while back. There was a grassfire a few km down the road and a car vaguely fitting the description of our car parked in our driveway was seen leaving the scene. By the time he knocked on our door I assumed he had already put his hand on the bonnet etc to see if had been driven recently, and he even told us that our car didn't really match the description after all. We chatted for a while and he left. If i'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me?</p><p>I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time. You'd see the worst of people every day. You'd have to knock on doors at 3am and tell parents that they have one less living child. Every time you pull someone over you know that there is a slim chance that someone's going to pull a shotgun on you. And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who don't take your sort of shit lightly.</p><p>Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk to the police without consul , during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot , not honest or friendly.Bullshit .
You just make it harder for them to do their job .
Sure there are cops who are crooks , or just jerks , but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman .
Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.We had a policeman knock on our door a while back .
There was a grassfire a few km down the road and a car vaguely fitting the description of our car parked in our driveway was seen leaving the scene .
By the time he knocked on our door I assumed he had already put his hand on the bonnet etc to see if had been driven recently , and he even told us that our car did n't really match the description after all .
We chatted for a while and he left .
If i 'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me ? I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time .
You 'd see the worst of people every day .
You 'd have to knock on doors at 3am and tell parents that they have one less living child .
Every time you pull someone over you know that there is a slim chance that someone 's going to pull a shotgun on you .
And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who do n't take your sort of shit lightly.Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police , you wo n't run into one that you 've pissed off along the way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk to the police without consul, during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot, not honest or friendly.Bullshit.
You just make it harder for them to do their job.
Sure there are cops who are crooks, or just jerks, but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman.
Have a think about which dark corner of society would benefit if everyone starts being hostile towards the police.We had a policeman knock on our door a while back.
There was a grassfire a few km down the road and a car vaguely fitting the description of our car parked in our driveway was seen leaving the scene.
By the time he knocked on our door I assumed he had already put his hand on the bonnet etc to see if had been driven recently, and he even told us that our car didn't really match the description after all.
We chatted for a while and he left.
If i'd had behaved like a prick like you suggest what would it have gained me?I can only begin to guess at what a horrible job it must be most of the time.
You'd see the worst of people every day.
You'd have to knock on doors at 3am and tell parents that they have one less living child.
Every time you pull someone over you know that there is a slim chance that someone's going to pull a shotgun on you.
And if you make it hard for them to do their job then the only people left doing the job are the ones who don't take your sort of shit lightly.Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327838</id>
	<title>UK Police are driven by targets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267527600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>C'mon, this is the UK police we're talking about: nowadays they're driven by targets that come from the politicians and directly influence their bonuses and career prospects.</p><p>Targets have been set by the highest level of government to collect and keep as many DNA samples as possible for the DNA Database, so Bonuses and Promotions are at stake here. They don't give a damn about the citizens they are supposed to serve except as means to reach their targets, so they would tell you whatever you wanted to hear to get another point on their DNA samples target.</p><p>Count yourself lucky though: people's lifes have been ruined when they got "Cautions" (an admission of guilt, which requires no court involvement and goes into the Criminal Record) for being drunken and rowdy or for (lightly) discipling their own kids.</p><p>I've lived in 3 European countries by now and this is the only one where I don't trust the police (which is kinda sad since I'm from Portugal, a country where people look up to the UK as a better place)</p><p>Not that I blame the lowly copper: at the core of the current rot are the power hungry politicians and money driven high-level officers.</p><p>I guess that people are getting what they deserve around here: the British electorate keeps voting on the same two sets of visibly lying, deceitfull, sleazy and two-faced politicians (or not voting at all) - these guys are so exceptionally untrustworthy (at least compared with Dutch and Portuguese politicians) that they are caught cheating and lying so often it's not fun anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>C'mon , this is the UK police we 're talking about : nowadays they 're driven by targets that come from the politicians and directly influence their bonuses and career prospects.Targets have been set by the highest level of government to collect and keep as many DNA samples as possible for the DNA Database , so Bonuses and Promotions are at stake here .
They do n't give a damn about the citizens they are supposed to serve except as means to reach their targets , so they would tell you whatever you wanted to hear to get another point on their DNA samples target.Count yourself lucky though : people 's lifes have been ruined when they got " Cautions " ( an admission of guilt , which requires no court involvement and goes into the Criminal Record ) for being drunken and rowdy or for ( lightly ) discipling their own kids.I 've lived in 3 European countries by now and this is the only one where I do n't trust the police ( which is kinda sad since I 'm from Portugal , a country where people look up to the UK as a better place ) Not that I blame the lowly copper : at the core of the current rot are the power hungry politicians and money driven high-level officers.I guess that people are getting what they deserve around here : the British electorate keeps voting on the same two sets of visibly lying , deceitfull , sleazy and two-faced politicians ( or not voting at all ) - these guys are so exceptionally untrustworthy ( at least compared with Dutch and Portuguese politicians ) that they are caught cheating and lying so often it 's not fun anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>C'mon, this is the UK police we're talking about: nowadays they're driven by targets that come from the politicians and directly influence their bonuses and career prospects.Targets have been set by the highest level of government to collect and keep as many DNA samples as possible for the DNA Database, so Bonuses and Promotions are at stake here.
They don't give a damn about the citizens they are supposed to serve except as means to reach their targets, so they would tell you whatever you wanted to hear to get another point on their DNA samples target.Count yourself lucky though: people's lifes have been ruined when they got "Cautions" (an admission of guilt, which requires no court involvement and goes into the Criminal Record) for being drunken and rowdy or for (lightly) discipling their own kids.I've lived in 3 European countries by now and this is the only one where I don't trust the police (which is kinda sad since I'm from Portugal, a country where people look up to the UK as a better place)Not that I blame the lowly copper: at the core of the current rot are the power hungry politicians and money driven high-level officers.I guess that people are getting what they deserve around here: the British electorate keeps voting on the same two sets of visibly lying, deceitfull, sleazy and two-faced politicians (or not voting at all) - these guys are so exceptionally untrustworthy (at least compared with Dutch and Portuguese politicians) that they are caught cheating and lying so often it's not fun anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327506</id>
	<title>you guys should have rtfa this time.  It was good.</title>
	<author>delvsional</author>
	<datestamp>1267522680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
According to tfa:</p><p> <i>One of my parents' neighbours was found in a cupboard with a ~2 foot barbecue skewer stabbed through his chest. He'd been there for three days and was close to death.</i> </p><p>but the police eventually ruled:</p><p> <i>that he had accidentally stabbed himself with the skewer, and the investigation was closed.</i> </p><p>Jesus, did he shoot himself in the head twice too?  How in the hell do you accidentally stab yourself in the chest with a 2 foot barbecue skewer and then stuff yourself into a cupboard?</p><p>On another note, they asked <i>"We can destroy your samples after the investigation, or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future."</i> and you said "pretty much", that kind of leaves it open to interpretation doesn't it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to tfa : One of my parents ' neighbours was found in a cupboard with a ~ 2 foot barbecue skewer stabbed through his chest .
He 'd been there for three days and was close to death .
but the police eventually ruled : that he had accidentally stabbed himself with the skewer , and the investigation was closed .
Jesus , did he shoot himself in the head twice too ?
How in the hell do you accidentally stab yourself in the chest with a 2 foot barbecue skewer and then stuff yourself into a cupboard ? On another note , they asked " We can destroy your samples after the investigation , or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future .
" and you said " pretty much " , that kind of leaves it open to interpretation does n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
According to tfa: One of my parents' neighbours was found in a cupboard with a ~2 foot barbecue skewer stabbed through his chest.
He'd been there for three days and was close to death.
but the police eventually ruled: that he had accidentally stabbed himself with the skewer, and the investigation was closed.
Jesus, did he shoot himself in the head twice too?
How in the hell do you accidentally stab yourself in the chest with a 2 foot barbecue skewer and then stuff yourself into a cupboard?On another note, they asked "We can destroy your samples after the investigation, or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future.
" and you said "pretty much", that kind of leaves it open to interpretation doesn't it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329350</id>
	<title>Mission Creep</title>
	<author>M-RES</author>
	<datestamp>1267542960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is your classic case of mission creep.</p><p>The Police are no longer law enforcement officers, they're revenue collection agents - fact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is your classic case of mission creep.The Police are no longer law enforcement officers , they 're revenue collection agents - fact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is your classic case of mission creep.The Police are no longer law enforcement officers, they're revenue collection agents - fact.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31337300</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1267530720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not seeing the difference here.  You basically said, listen, comply, only give out name/address simple facts, and request a lawyer before answering anything beyond simple personal details.</p><p>Isn't that the same advice offered in the video for US citizens?  Basically, be polite, comply with arrest, and keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not seeing the difference here .
You basically said , listen , comply , only give out name/address simple facts , and request a lawyer before answering anything beyond simple personal details.Is n't that the same advice offered in the video for US citizens ?
Basically , be polite , comply with arrest , and keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not seeing the difference here.
You basically said, listen, comply, only give out name/address simple facts, and request a lawyer before answering anything beyond simple personal details.Isn't that the same advice offered in the video for US citizens?
Basically, be polite, comply with arrest, and keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327678</id>
	<title>Why to never talk to  the police...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267525140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never talk to the police.  Important link follows:</p><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never talk to the police .
Important link follows : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 6wXkI4t7nuc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never talk to the police.
Important link follows:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327618</id>
	<title>It's unfortunate, but</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1267524240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the police, the government, the powers that be in the UK have proven themselves time and time again to be completely untrustworthy.</p><p>Equally unfortunate is the British propensity to grit their teeth and bear it, (because they love to complain about something) rather than do something constructive to change their situation while they still can.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the police , the government , the powers that be in the UK have proven themselves time and time again to be completely untrustworthy.Equally unfortunate is the British propensity to grit their teeth and bear it , ( because they love to complain about something ) rather than do something constructive to change their situation while they still can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the police, the government, the powers that be in the UK have proven themselves time and time again to be completely untrustworthy.Equally unfortunate is the British propensity to grit their teeth and bear it, (because they love to complain about something) rather than do something constructive to change their situation while they still can.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327890</id>
	<title>Don't Talk To The Police</title>
	<author>rhook</author>
	<datestamp>1267528560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, nothing good ever comes from talking to the police or giving them anything that they don't have a warrant or court order for. Police are also allowed to lie, however if you lie to them you're guilty of a crime.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , nothing good ever comes from talking to the police or giving them anything that they do n't have a warrant or court order for .
Police are also allowed to lie , however if you lie to them you 're guilty of a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, nothing good ever comes from talking to the police or giving them anything that they don't have a warrant or court order for.
Police are also allowed to lie, however if you lie to them you're guilty of a crime.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328384</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267535100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>UK citizens: <b>I<br>
&nbsp; <b>We don't have a constitution.</b><br>
&nbsp;</b></p> </div><p>And you were doing so well up until you got to there</p><p>I've heard this repeated so many times that people think it is true.</p><p>Yes we do have a constitution.</p><p>We don't have a WRITTEN constitution.</p><p>Please try and get things right.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>UK citizens : I   We do n't have a constitution .
  And you were doing so well up until you got to thereI 've heard this repeated so many times that people think it is true.Yes we do have a constitution.We do n't have a WRITTEN constitution.Please try and get things right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UK citizens: I
  We don't have a constitution.
  And you were doing so well up until you got to thereI've heard this repeated so many times that people think it is true.Yes we do have a constitution.We don't have a WRITTEN constitution.Please try and get things right.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31342946</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>randyleepublic</author>
	<datestamp>1267616400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Double Bullshit.  The police have only themselves to blame for how hard their jobs are to do.  They are the one special interest group who could swing a big hammer at the legislature over all the ridiculous laws, but they haven't and they won't.  They are mostly the bullies who are just sane enough to see how to get away with it.  The TV show about the serial murderer cop was much truer than you realize.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Double Bullshit .
The police have only themselves to blame for how hard their jobs are to do .
They are the one special interest group who could swing a big hammer at the legislature over all the ridiculous laws , but they have n't and they wo n't .
They are mostly the bullies who are just sane enough to see how to get away with it .
The TV show about the serial murderer cop was much truer than you realize .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Double Bullshit.
The police have only themselves to blame for how hard their jobs are to do.
They are the one special interest group who could swing a big hammer at the legislature over all the ridiculous laws, but they haven't and they won't.
They are mostly the bullies who are just sane enough to see how to get away with it.
The TV show about the serial murderer cop was much truer than you realize.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</id>
	<title>Hairdressers</title>
	<author>rtb61</author>
	<datestamp>1267561800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I would think you would have more to fear from your barber and a possible black market in DNA traces, for investigative misdirection. Who else might become suspect, doctors, are hospitals removing all samples or are they being put on file as well. Even public transport might be considered an unsafe DNA dispersal risk location.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would think you would have more to fear from your barber and a possible black market in DNA traces , for investigative misdirection .
Who else might become suspect , doctors , are hospitals removing all samples or are they being put on file as well .
Even public transport might be considered an unsafe DNA dispersal risk location .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I would think you would have more to fear from your barber and a possible black market in DNA traces, for investigative misdirection.
Who else might become suspect, doctors, are hospitals removing all samples or are they being put on file as well.
Even public transport might be considered an unsafe DNA dispersal risk location.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328210</id>
	<title>ACAB</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267532460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>D'uh</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>D'uh</tokentext>
<sentencetext>D'uh</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328420</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267535640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you telling me you <i>just</i> realized this? As a basic rule of thumb, the bigger and more powerful the government, the less freedom. Without even getting out the calculator, all of the world superpowers are right off the freedom list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you telling me you just realized this ?
As a basic rule of thumb , the bigger and more powerful the government , the less freedom .
Without even getting out the calculator , all of the world superpowers are right off the freedom list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you telling me you just realized this?
As a basic rule of thumb, the bigger and more powerful the government, the less freedom.
Without even getting out the calculator, all of the world superpowers are right off the freedom list.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328520</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267537260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds to me like you need a new Magna Carta, Part II</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds to me like you need a new Magna Carta , Part II</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds to me like you need a new Magna Carta, Part II</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327966</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267529460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sure there are cops who are crooks, or just jerks, but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman.</p></div><p>If you don't assume that all cops are crooks, then you leave yourself vulnerable to those who are.  It's not a nice situation, but that's the way it is.  The solution is for cops to get rid of the crooks from amongst their midst, and start earning back our trust.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure there are cops who are crooks , or just jerks , but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman.If you do n't assume that all cops are crooks , then you leave yourself vulnerable to those who are .
It 's not a nice situation , but that 's the way it is .
The solution is for cops to get rid of the crooks from amongst their midst , and start earning back our trust .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure there are cops who are crooks, or just jerks, but if you presume that they all are then you are no better than your make-believe stereotypical policeman.If you don't assume that all cops are crooks, then you leave yourself vulnerable to those who are.
It's not a nice situation, but that's the way it is.
The solution is for cops to get rid of the crooks from amongst their midst, and start earning back our trust.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327448</id>
	<title>WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267521780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> If you talk to the police without consul, during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot, not honest or friendly. They are not your friends. The do not have to tell you the truth. When asked to waive my rights by an officer of the law I respectfully tell them that I am unable to waive them without the advice of an attorney. That pisses them off and they usually start threatening  warrants and other harassment.</p><p>
&nbsp; "With respect for your position sir, I respectfully decline any more communication without an attorney present, and understand you have a job to do, please proceed with what you have to do. Am I under arrest or are you detaining me? If so please provide consul. If not have a nice day!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk to the police without consul , during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot , not honest or friendly .
They are not your friends .
The do not have to tell you the truth .
When asked to waive my rights by an officer of the law I respectfully tell them that I am unable to waive them without the advice of an attorney .
That pisses them off and they usually start threatening warrants and other harassment .
  " With respect for your position sir , I respectfully decline any more communication without an attorney present , and understand you have a job to do , please proceed with what you have to do .
Am I under arrest or are you detaining me ?
If so please provide consul .
If not have a nice day !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you talk to the police without consul, during an investigation you have waived your rights and demonstrated to the police that you are an idiot, not honest or friendly.
They are not your friends.
The do not have to tell you the truth.
When asked to waive my rights by an officer of the law I respectfully tell them that I am unable to waive them without the advice of an attorney.
That pisses them off and they usually start threatening  warrants and other harassment.
  "With respect for your position sir, I respectfully decline any more communication without an attorney present, and understand you have a job to do, please proceed with what you have to do.
Am I under arrest or are you detaining me?
If so please provide consul.
If not have a nice day!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31332524</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Hal\_Porter</author>
	<datestamp>1267556220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll never take me alive, Copper!</p><p>BLAM!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll never take me alive , Copper ! BLAM !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll never take me alive, Copper!BLAM!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330206</id>
	<title>OMG! Say it ain't So!</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1267547040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cops lie! Film at 11.</p><p>In other news, the sun rises in the east, all operating systems suck, and a popular household baby food contains rat poison. Tune in after "House, M.D." to find out which one!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cops lie !
Film at 11.In other news , the sun rises in the east , all operating systems suck , and a popular household baby food contains rat poison .
Tune in after " House , M.D .
" to find out which one !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cops lie!
Film at 11.In other news, the sun rises in the east, all operating systems suck, and a popular household baby food contains rat poison.
Tune in after "House, M.D.
" to find out which one!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328346</id>
	<title>You're lucky</title>
	<author>Vinegar Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1267534680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation."</p><p>If the cops had been screening for stupidity you'd be in a lot of trouble.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation , as they 'd promised it would only be used for that investigation .
" If the cops had been screening for stupidity you 'd be in a lot of trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In 2008 I invited two policemen into my home and voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample to help with a murder investigation, as they'd promised it would only be used for that investigation.
"If the cops had been screening for stupidity you'd be in a lot of trouble.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327424</id>
	<title>Do not cooperate with the police</title>
	<author>cerberusss</author>
	<datestamp>1267521420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, do not ever again help the police. Sure, follow their instructions when within the law. But helping the police does not help YOU at all and might seriously endanger yourself. If the samples were contaminated or mixed up, you could have found yourself in jail.</p><p>Watch the presentations by Professor James Duane of Stanford University:<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&amp;v=i8z7NC5sgik" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&amp;v=i8z7NC5sgik</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , do not ever again help the police .
Sure , follow their instructions when within the law .
But helping the police does not help YOU at all and might seriously endanger yourself .
If the samples were contaminated or mixed up , you could have found yourself in jail.Watch the presentations by Professor James Duane of Stanford University : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? gl = NL&amp;v = i8z7NC5sgik [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, do not ever again help the police.
Sure, follow their instructions when within the law.
But helping the police does not help YOU at all and might seriously endanger yourself.
If the samples were contaminated or mixed up, you could have found yourself in jail.Watch the presentations by Professor James Duane of Stanford University:http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&amp;v=i8z7NC5sgik [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328178</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267531980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Golden Rule #1 - NEVER help the UK Police, NEVER NEVER EVER talk / offer / assist the UK Police.  NEVER</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Golden Rule # 1 - NEVER help the UK Police , NEVER NEVER EVER talk / offer / assist the UK Police .
NEVER</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Golden Rule #1 - NEVER help the UK Police, NEVER NEVER EVER talk / offer / assist the UK Police.
NEVER</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329092</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267541580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the police knocked on your door informing you of a grass fire, saying your car vaguely matched the description and wanted a DNA sample, would you have given it to them? You  are not guilty, what are you afraid of?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the police knocked on your door informing you of a grass fire , saying your car vaguely matched the description and wanted a DNA sample , would you have given it to them ?
You are not guilty , what are you afraid of ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the police knocked on your door informing you of a grass fire, saying your car vaguely matched the description and wanted a DNA sample, would you have given it to them?
You  are not guilty, what are you afraid of?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328200</id>
	<title>Re:its on record till your 100th birthday</title>
	<author>augustw</author>
	<datestamp>1267532340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I've read through the regulations they work under. In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed, there is no example of a letter saying it can.</em></p><p>Only in England &amp; Wales; this is NOT he case in Scotland, where sampled DNA is removed from the database at the end of the relevant enquiry.</p><p>Scotland and England have different legal systems, criminal law, and police powers, and rules of evidence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I 've read through the regulations they work under .
In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed , there is no example of a letter saying it can.Only in England &amp; Wales ; this is NOT he case in Scotland , where sampled DNA is removed from the database at the end of the relevant enquiry.Scotland and England have different legal systems , criminal law , and police powers , and rules of evidence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I've read through the regulations they work under.
In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed, there is no example of a letter saying it can.Only in England &amp; Wales; this is NOT he case in Scotland, where sampled DNA is removed from the database at the end of the relevant enquiry.Scotland and England have different legal systems, criminal law, and police powers, and rules of evidence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329200</id>
	<title>Once the feds are alligned, i have no prob</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1267542240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once all the feds are properly sanctioned and set up to run a sort of shared interglobal database where everyone is fingerprinted, dna, and maybe sent their main form of id (passport?) I will let them have my info. Once we move to a global scale system that is properly monitored and controlled (by who, don't know) I will be able to trust my credentials with them, but when you have some stupid desk clerk in some small town sheriff dept. or city precinct, that has his own agenda, or they have some plans in using the info they have for ??? I wonder.</p><p>The difference between the 2 will be money, loads of it. The small precinct is needing money, the 500 billion dollar global project wont be. Who would be tempted to sell your info to someone...?<br>Who might mishandle the info in such a way as to screw up or make mistakes.<br>Trust me, the big project with all world leaders having their eyes watching, would have to be pretty rock solid, where as some<br>desk clerk that smudges your info because he dropped some coffee by mistake, well, you figure out the rest, ey!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once all the feds are properly sanctioned and set up to run a sort of shared interglobal database where everyone is fingerprinted , dna , and maybe sent their main form of id ( passport ?
) I will let them have my info .
Once we move to a global scale system that is properly monitored and controlled ( by who , do n't know ) I will be able to trust my credentials with them , but when you have some stupid desk clerk in some small town sheriff dept .
or city precinct , that has his own agenda , or they have some plans in using the info they have for ? ? ?
I wonder.The difference between the 2 will be money , loads of it .
The small precinct is needing money , the 500 billion dollar global project wont be .
Who would be tempted to sell your info to someone... ? Who might mishandle the info in such a way as to screw up or make mistakes.Trust me , the big project with all world leaders having their eyes watching , would have to be pretty rock solid , where as somedesk clerk that smudges your info because he dropped some coffee by mistake , well , you figure out the rest , ey !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once all the feds are properly sanctioned and set up to run a sort of shared interglobal database where everyone is fingerprinted, dna, and maybe sent their main form of id (passport?
) I will let them have my info.
Once we move to a global scale system that is properly monitored and controlled (by who, don't know) I will be able to trust my credentials with them, but when you have some stupid desk clerk in some small town sheriff dept.
or city precinct, that has his own agenda, or they have some plans in using the info they have for ???
I wonder.The difference between the 2 will be money, loads of it.
The small precinct is needing money, the 500 billion dollar global project wont be.
Who would be tempted to sell your info to someone...?Who might mishandle the info in such a way as to screw up or make mistakes.Trust me, the big project with all world leaders having their eyes watching, would have to be pretty rock solid, where as somedesk clerk that smudges your info because he dropped some coffee by mistake, well, you figure out the rest, ey!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327582</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267523760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed. Almost everybody on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc. in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed .
Almost everybody on / .
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites , backups , archived data , etc .
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed.
Almost everybody on /.
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc.
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327482</id>
	<title>its on record till your 100th birthday</title>
	<author>blackest\_k</author>
	<datestamp>1267522320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I've read through the regulations they work under. In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed, there is no example of a letter saying it can.</p><p>In the UK the police retain records of everyone even if you have never been arrested or charged with anything it is enough to be associated with someone with a criminal record for this to be recorded on your record. I believe they refer to these as non arrestable offenses. I say your record but its the polices record of you. Over time the Police are not forced to share what they have on you with other agencies but everything is kept on record for their use and they do have the option of clearing your record once you reach the age of 100.</p><p>Of course your Dna will not only identify you but close matches may suggest a brother or a son or other close relative may be worth investigating. There is no political will from either of the main parties to curb the current legislation they have both contributed to it. So you either live with it or leave and hope that there is no worldwide database created in your lifetime.</p><p>Rule number one where ever you are don't get involved with the Police if you can possibly avoid it.</p><p><a href="http://www.genewatch.org/sub-539482" title="genewatch.org">http://www.genewatch.org/sub-539482</a> [genewatch.org]<br><a href="http://www.runnymedetrust.org/events-conferences/econferences/ethnic-profiling-in-uk-law-enforcement/the-report/the-national-dna-database/the-national-dna-database-2.html" title="runnymedetrust.org">http://www.runnymedetrust.org/events-conferences/econferences/ethnic-profiling-in-uk-law-enforcement/the-report/the-national-dna-database/the-national-dna-database-2.html</a> [runnymedetrust.org]</p><p>The second link spells it out for you using big letters and crayon, yes you are on record and for all practical meanings of for the rest of your life.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The European Court of Human Rights</p><p>In December 2008, in the case of S. and Marper v. the UK, the Grand Chamber of European Court of Human Rights reached a unanimous judgment that the blanket retention of innocent people's DNA and fingerprints by the UK Government contravenes Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the right to privacy).</p><p>At the time of writing, the Government has yet to implement a response to the judgment. Its initial proposals to retain DNA records from innocent people for 6 or 12 years, depending on the offence for which they were arrested, were widely criticised. They have been replaced with an alternative 6 year retention time for innocent adults (3 years for under-16s), in the Crime and Security Bill 2009/10. However, both opposition parties regard these proposals as unacceptable.. The Government has also made a welcome proposal to destroy the original DNA samples (biological samples), which are currently stored by the commercial laboratories which analyse them, and which contain unlimited genetic information which is not needed for identification purposes.</p></div><p>I guess that this judgment may change things but currently there is no change and it  will remain that way until compelled to change. note the opposition fighting against the change it can be viewed as because the proposals are still draconian or more cynically to block any change in the current status quo.</p><p>Unless legislation does go through and so far it hasn't then any plea to the chief constable to get the dna record removed due to exceptional circumstances will fall on deaf ears because after all being innocent of any crime is hardly exceptional in that database.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I 've read through the regulations they work under .
In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed , there is no example of a letter saying it can.In the UK the police retain records of everyone even if you have never been arrested or charged with anything it is enough to be associated with someone with a criminal record for this to be recorded on your record .
I believe they refer to these as non arrestable offenses .
I say your record but its the polices record of you .
Over time the Police are not forced to share what they have on you with other agencies but everything is kept on record for their use and they do have the option of clearing your record once you reach the age of 100.Of course your Dna will not only identify you but close matches may suggest a brother or a son or other close relative may be worth investigating .
There is no political will from either of the main parties to curb the current legislation they have both contributed to it .
So you either live with it or leave and hope that there is no worldwide database created in your lifetime.Rule number one where ever you are do n't get involved with the Police if you can possibly avoid it.http : //www.genewatch.org/sub-539482 [ genewatch.org ] http : //www.runnymedetrust.org/events-conferences/econferences/ethnic-profiling-in-uk-law-enforcement/the-report/the-national-dna-database/the-national-dna-database-2.html [ runnymedetrust.org ] The second link spells it out for you using big letters and crayon , yes you are on record and for all practical meanings of for the rest of your life.The European Court of Human RightsIn December 2008 , in the case of S. and Marper v. the UK , the Grand Chamber of European Court of Human Rights reached a unanimous judgment that the blanket retention of innocent people 's DNA and fingerprints by the UK Government contravenes Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights ( the right to privacy ) .At the time of writing , the Government has yet to implement a response to the judgment .
Its initial proposals to retain DNA records from innocent people for 6 or 12 years , depending on the offence for which they were arrested , were widely criticised .
They have been replaced with an alternative 6 year retention time for innocent adults ( 3 years for under-16s ) , in the Crime and Security Bill 2009/10 .
However , both opposition parties regard these proposals as unacceptable.. The Government has also made a welcome proposal to destroy the original DNA samples ( biological samples ) , which are currently stored by the commercial laboratories which analyse them , and which contain unlimited genetic information which is not needed for identification purposes.I guess that this judgment may change things but currently there is no change and it will remain that way until compelled to change .
note the opposition fighting against the change it can be viewed as because the proposals are still draconian or more cynically to block any change in the current status quo.Unless legislation does go through and so far it has n't then any plea to the chief constable to get the dna record removed due to exceptional circumstances will fall on deaf ears because after all being innocent of any crime is hardly exceptional in that database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately the Police are under no obligation to remove the DNA from the database until your 100th birthday I've read through the regulations they work under.
In the appendix there are form letters for the chief constable to tell you that your dna can not be removed, there is no example of a letter saying it can.In the UK the police retain records of everyone even if you have never been arrested or charged with anything it is enough to be associated with someone with a criminal record for this to be recorded on your record.
I believe they refer to these as non arrestable offenses.
I say your record but its the polices record of you.
Over time the Police are not forced to share what they have on you with other agencies but everything is kept on record for their use and they do have the option of clearing your record once you reach the age of 100.Of course your Dna will not only identify you but close matches may suggest a brother or a son or other close relative may be worth investigating.
There is no political will from either of the main parties to curb the current legislation they have both contributed to it.
So you either live with it or leave and hope that there is no worldwide database created in your lifetime.Rule number one where ever you are don't get involved with the Police if you can possibly avoid it.http://www.genewatch.org/sub-539482 [genewatch.org]http://www.runnymedetrust.org/events-conferences/econferences/ethnic-profiling-in-uk-law-enforcement/the-report/the-national-dna-database/the-national-dna-database-2.html [runnymedetrust.org]The second link spells it out for you using big letters and crayon, yes you are on record and for all practical meanings of for the rest of your life.The European Court of Human RightsIn December 2008, in the case of S. and Marper v. the UK, the Grand Chamber of European Court of Human Rights reached a unanimous judgment that the blanket retention of innocent people's DNA and fingerprints by the UK Government contravenes Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (the right to privacy).At the time of writing, the Government has yet to implement a response to the judgment.
Its initial proposals to retain DNA records from innocent people for 6 or 12 years, depending on the offence for which they were arrested, were widely criticised.
They have been replaced with an alternative 6 year retention time for innocent adults (3 years for under-16s), in the Crime and Security Bill 2009/10.
However, both opposition parties regard these proposals as unacceptable.. The Government has also made a welcome proposal to destroy the original DNA samples (biological samples), which are currently stored by the commercial laboratories which analyse them, and which contain unlimited genetic information which is not needed for identification purposes.I guess that this judgment may change things but currently there is no change and it  will remain that way until compelled to change.
note the opposition fighting against the change it can be viewed as because the proposals are still draconian or more cynically to block any change in the current status quo.Unless legislation does go through and so far it hasn't then any plea to the chief constable to get the dna record removed due to exceptional circumstances will fall on deaf ears because after all being innocent of any crime is hardly exceptional in that database.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328118</id>
	<title>Re:Don't give a Sample</title>
	<author>Stray7Xi</author>
	<datestamp>1267531380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How the hell could it "help with a murder investigation" to provide them with a sample of your DNA?</p></div><p>If it happened in your home and your DNA is contaminating the crime scene.  They have multiple samples of DNA and would like to eliminate some.  I wouldn't want to trust the police with my DNA either, but if my wife was murdered in our bed (while I had an airtight alibi), it'd be a hard problem but I'd want a lawyer first.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How the hell could it " help with a murder investigation " to provide them with a sample of your DNA ? If it happened in your home and your DNA is contaminating the crime scene .
They have multiple samples of DNA and would like to eliminate some .
I would n't want to trust the police with my DNA either , but if my wife was murdered in our bed ( while I had an airtight alibi ) , it 'd be a hard problem but I 'd want a lawyer first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the hell could it "help with a murder investigation" to provide them with a sample of your DNA?If it happened in your home and your DNA is contaminating the crime scene.
They have multiple samples of DNA and would like to eliminate some.
I wouldn't want to trust the police with my DNA either, but if my wife was murdered in our bed (while I had an airtight alibi), it'd be a hard problem but I'd want a lawyer first.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328704</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1267539060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed. Almost everybody on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc. in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...</p></div><p>It probably wouldn't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not. The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they don't have the cooperation of their victims.</p></div><p>While you're likely right about them finding DNA from other means, if that means is sifting through his garbage then it could matter to the guy if he was actually not guilty. All they can do with "found evidence" such as this is use it to justify bringing in the guy officially and getting a further sample from him at that point if there is a positive match. If there's no positive match, they can't very well store it against his identity because they have no conclusive evidence at that point that it's actually his DNA.</p><p>Of course, that doesn't preclude them from following him around until he commits what could be classed as a petty crime (driving offence or something - even a spurious dangerous driving offence which has zero merit would probably be enough) and bringing him in for official sampling at that point, which I guess are the "other round-about means" you mentioned.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed .
Almost everybody on / .
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites , backups , archived data , etc .
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...It probably would n't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not .
The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they do n't have the cooperation of their victims.While you 're likely right about them finding DNA from other means , if that means is sifting through his garbage then it could matter to the guy if he was actually not guilty .
All they can do with " found evidence " such as this is use it to justify bringing in the guy officially and getting a further sample from him at that point if there is a positive match .
If there 's no positive match , they ca n't very well store it against his identity because they have no conclusive evidence at that point that it 's actually his DNA.Of course , that does n't preclude them from following him around until he commits what could be classed as a petty crime ( driving offence or something - even a spurious dangerous driving offence which has zero merit would probably be enough ) and bringing him in for official sampling at that point , which I guess are the " other round-about means " you mentioned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He could have spotted the lie just as soon as they promised him the samples would be removed.
Almost everybody on /.
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc.
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...It probably wouldn't have mattered whether he volunteered his DNA or not.
The police generally just tend to sift through peoples garbage or get their samples from other round-about means if they don't have the cooperation of their victims.While you're likely right about them finding DNA from other means, if that means is sifting through his garbage then it could matter to the guy if he was actually not guilty.
All they can do with "found evidence" such as this is use it to justify bringing in the guy officially and getting a further sample from him at that point if there is a positive match.
If there's no positive match, they can't very well store it against his identity because they have no conclusive evidence at that point that it's actually his DNA.Of course, that doesn't preclude them from following him around until he commits what could be classed as a petty crime (driving offence or something - even a spurious dangerous driving offence which has zero merit would probably be enough) and bringing him in for official sampling at that point, which I guess are the "other round-about means" you mentioned.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328476</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>MoonBuggy</author>
	<datestamp>1267536600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Out of interest, is it in the UK or the US that this applies?</p><p>In either case, are there limits on how much they can mislead you? I assume that questions like "Are you lying to me?" or even "Are you permitted to lie to me?" would be about as useful as the apocryphal drug dealer favourite of "You're not a cop, are you?", but what about "Am I being treated as a suspect?". I would imagine that there are rules, as there are for informing people when they're being arrested and why (although we've lost a few of them recently too...), and it'd be interesting to know what the submitter might've been able to do to protect himself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Out of interest , is it in the UK or the US that this applies ? In either case , are there limits on how much they can mislead you ?
I assume that questions like " Are you lying to me ?
" or even " Are you permitted to lie to me ?
" would be about as useful as the apocryphal drug dealer favourite of " You 're not a cop , are you ?
" , but what about " Am I being treated as a suspect ? " .
I would imagine that there are rules , as there are for informing people when they 're being arrested and why ( although we 've lost a few of them recently too... ) , and it 'd be interesting to know what the submitter might 've been able to do to protect himself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Out of interest, is it in the UK or the US that this applies?In either case, are there limits on how much they can mislead you?
I assume that questions like "Are you lying to me?
" or even "Are you permitted to lie to me?
" would be about as useful as the apocryphal drug dealer favourite of "You're not a cop, are you?
", but what about "Am I being treated as a suspect?".
I would imagine that there are rules, as there are for informing people when they're being arrested and why (although we've lost a few of them recently too...), and it'd be interesting to know what the submitter might've been able to do to protect himself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327952</id>
	<title>TFA: "What if I want to commit a serious crime?"</title>
	<author>evilandi</author>
	<datestamp>1267529280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TFA: "Me:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... What if I want to commit a serious crime in the future?"</p><p>And he wonders why the police want to keep tabs on him?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA : " Me : ... What if I want to commit a serious crime in the future ?
" And he wonders why the police want to keep tabs on him ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA: "Me: ... What if I want to commit a serious crime in the future?
"And he wonders why the police want to keep tabs on him?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327472</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267522080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Its funny. Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years, and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK.</p></div> </blockquote><p>You may want to wait till that former Soviet country has the same surveillance budget as the UK, and then compare.</p><p>I'm not necessarily saying it'll be worse mind you. Some former CCCP members suffered enough that they know what they need to avoid. They have no delusions of how corruption follows unchecked power. No "it can't happen here" mentality. Yet. But give it a little longer to achieve economic parity, and get another generation away from the Troubles, and then make a fair comparison.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its funny .
Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years , and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK .
You may want to wait till that former Soviet country has the same surveillance budget as the UK , and then compare.I 'm not necessarily saying it 'll be worse mind you .
Some former CCCP members suffered enough that they know what they need to avoid .
They have no delusions of how corruption follows unchecked power .
No " it ca n't happen here " mentality .
Yet. But give it a little longer to achieve economic parity , and get another generation away from the Troubles , and then make a fair comparison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its funny.
Im a Brit living abroad in a former soviet Country for the last two years, and the more I see the more I realise how big our illusion of freedom is in the UK.
You may want to wait till that former Soviet country has the same surveillance budget as the UK, and then compare.I'm not necessarily saying it'll be worse mind you.
Some former CCCP members suffered enough that they know what they need to avoid.
They have no delusions of how corruption follows unchecked power.
No "it can't happen here" mentality.
Yet. But give it a little longer to achieve economic parity, and get another generation away from the Troubles, and then make a fair comparison.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31331380</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>IndustrialComplex</author>
	<datestamp>1267552260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Almost everybody on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc. in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...</i></p><p>Hell I don't even really run a real backup system  (Just a few HDs sitting in a closet) but the other day I came across files that I thought were long since lost from 10 years ago when I was curious before formatting and reusing a HDD.  Data is amazingly persistent, we just know not to rely on that fact.</p><p>It is also amazingly viral, as data gets handed around to third parties, or simply just copied over from one system to the next.</p><p>It is the viral aspect that I imagine would bother me the most.  Even if I went into their data centers, burned it to the ground, as well as their off-site backup locations, I can't be sure that it hasn't been copied and sent to a third party the instant they received it.</p><p>And that third party?  Who the hell knows who THEY sent it to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Almost everybody on / .
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites , backups , archived data , etc .
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...Hell I do n't even really run a real backup system ( Just a few HDs sitting in a closet ) but the other day I came across files that I thought were long since lost from 10 years ago when I was curious before formatting and reusing a HDD .
Data is amazingly persistent , we just know not to rely on that fact.It is also amazingly viral , as data gets handed around to third parties , or simply just copied over from one system to the next.It is the viral aspect that I imagine would bother me the most .
Even if I went into their data centers , burned it to the ground , as well as their off-site backup locations , I ca n't be sure that it has n't been copied and sent to a third party the instant they received it.And that third party ?
Who the hell knows who THEY sent it to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Almost everybody on /.
knows that it is almost impossible to delete data from fail-over sites, backups, archived data, etc.
in a way that one can guarantee that all traces of the data has really been destroyed everywhere...Hell I don't even really run a real backup system  (Just a few HDs sitting in a closet) but the other day I came across files that I thought were long since lost from 10 years ago when I was curious before formatting and reusing a HDD.
Data is amazingly persistent, we just know not to rely on that fact.It is also amazingly viral, as data gets handed around to third parties, or simply just copied over from one system to the next.It is the viral aspect that I imagine would bother me the most.
Even if I went into their data centers, burned it to the ground, as well as their off-site backup locations, I can't be sure that it hasn't been copied and sent to a third party the instant they received it.And that third party?
Who the hell knows who THEY sent it to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328686</id>
	<title>Re:NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267538880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We do have a constitution, it's just not codified in a single document.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do have a constitution , it 's just not codified in a single document .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do have a constitution, it's just not codified in a single document.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330808</id>
	<title>Looks like it started out ok, but then.. WTF?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267549680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Policeman 1: We can destroy your samples after the investigation, or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future.<br> <br>
Me: What&rsquo;s in it for me?</p></div></blockquote><p>
This is an absolutely perfect way to frame the conversation, and I mean that in the widest scope possible.  We're not just talking about DNA here; this is how every single interaction with government should go.</p><p>
But then something went horribly wrong.  The government agents <em>didn't answer that question</em>, and then</p><blockquote><div><p>So, that nice bit of banter out of the way, they took my samples and left.</p></div></blockquote><p>
WTF?  At this point, the government is acting in bad faith toward its citizen (you), you know this is happening, and apparently you accepted.  After that, details like them failing to destroy the DNA seem so unimportant and trivial.  Didn't you pretty much expect them to be the Bad Guys?  Wasn't the premise of the transaction that they did not need to have any sort of good will or treat you with any respect?  How can you get upset with them about breaking a promise, <em>after</em> that?
</p><p>
We <em>can't</em> reasonably have policies down at the detail levels, of government acting in the interests of citizens, if the premise of government power isn't that everything it does is supposed to have serving the public as its rationale.  The government should <em>always</em> have a damn good, painfully obvious and satisfying answer to the question, "What's in it for me?"  That's not something you can gloss over.  Any time they don't have an answer to that, citizens need to do something about that.  I don't just mean say no to their request for DNA (but of course you should do that).  I mean that something ought to be set in motion so that the cops never ask anyone for their DNA again.  Your MP should be working on that, right now.  Forget the DNA; your government needs a fundamentally new mission for the cops.
</p><p>
But anyway, you consented to evil government.  That's not just a cynical prejudice against government, but something that was demonstrated with undeniable proof to you, right there in that room on that day, when there was no answer to the "What's in it for me?" question.  That was <strong>long</strong> before they broke their word and kept the DNA.  That they kept the DNA is pretty much irrelevant.  You have much bigger problems than that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Policeman 1 : We can destroy your samples after the investigation , or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future .
Me : What    s in it for me ?
This is an absolutely perfect way to frame the conversation , and I mean that in the widest scope possible .
We 're not just talking about DNA here ; this is how every single interaction with government should go .
But then something went horribly wrong .
The government agents did n't answer that question , and thenSo , that nice bit of banter out of the way , they took my samples and left .
WTF ? At this point , the government is acting in bad faith toward its citizen ( you ) , you know this is happening , and apparently you accepted .
After that , details like them failing to destroy the DNA seem so unimportant and trivial .
Did n't you pretty much expect them to be the Bad Guys ?
Was n't the premise of the transaction that they did not need to have any sort of good will or treat you with any respect ?
How can you get upset with them about breaking a promise , after that ?
We ca n't reasonably have policies down at the detail levels , of government acting in the interests of citizens , if the premise of government power is n't that everything it does is supposed to have serving the public as its rationale .
The government should always have a damn good , painfully obvious and satisfying answer to the question , " What 's in it for me ?
" That 's not something you can gloss over .
Any time they do n't have an answer to that , citizens need to do something about that .
I do n't just mean say no to their request for DNA ( but of course you should do that ) .
I mean that something ought to be set in motion so that the cops never ask anyone for their DNA again .
Your MP should be working on that , right now .
Forget the DNA ; your government needs a fundamentally new mission for the cops .
But anyway , you consented to evil government .
That 's not just a cynical prejudice against government , but something that was demonstrated with undeniable proof to you , right there in that room on that day , when there was no answer to the " What 's in it for me ?
" question .
That was long before they broke their word and kept the DNA .
That they kept the DNA is pretty much irrelevant .
You have much bigger problems than that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Policeman 1: We can destroy your samples after the investigation, or we can keep them on the database so we can use them again in future.
Me: What’s in it for me?
This is an absolutely perfect way to frame the conversation, and I mean that in the widest scope possible.
We're not just talking about DNA here; this is how every single interaction with government should go.
But then something went horribly wrong.
The government agents didn't answer that question, and thenSo, that nice bit of banter out of the way, they took my samples and left.
WTF?  At this point, the government is acting in bad faith toward its citizen (you), you know this is happening, and apparently you accepted.
After that, details like them failing to destroy the DNA seem so unimportant and trivial.
Didn't you pretty much expect them to be the Bad Guys?
Wasn't the premise of the transaction that they did not need to have any sort of good will or treat you with any respect?
How can you get upset with them about breaking a promise, after that?
We can't reasonably have policies down at the detail levels, of government acting in the interests of citizens, if the premise of government power isn't that everything it does is supposed to have serving the public as its rationale.
The government should always have a damn good, painfully obvious and satisfying answer to the question, "What's in it for me?
"  That's not something you can gloss over.
Any time they don't have an answer to that, citizens need to do something about that.
I don't just mean say no to their request for DNA (but of course you should do that).
I mean that something ought to be set in motion so that the cops never ask anyone for their DNA again.
Your MP should be working on that, right now.
Forget the DNA; your government needs a fundamentally new mission for the cops.
But anyway, you consented to evil government.
That's not just a cynical prejudice against government, but something that was demonstrated with undeniable proof to you, right there in that room on that day, when there was no answer to the "What's in it for me?
" question.
That was long before they broke their word and kept the DNA.
That they kept the DNA is pretty much irrelevant.
You have much bigger problems than that.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</id>
	<title>Not the first</title>
	<author>GigaplexNZ</author>
	<datestamp>1267561620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This isn't the first time the police have lied.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't the first time the police have lied .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't the first time the police have lied.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31333268</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>http</author>
	<datestamp>1267559040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bullshit on your bullshit.  I do not want to make their job hard.  I want to make it as hard as possible to investigate me, because if I haven't done what they're looking into, investigating me is the opposite of their job.<br>

If the police are investigating me as a suspect, they're wasting my tax dollars and yours, because I didn't do it.  It's a matter of fiscal responsibility to my fellow citizens.  If I'm a witness, one poorly chosen word can let them think my fuzzy description of a flurry of activity is really a bumbled alibi, leading to more wasted resources.  If I didn't do it and I didn't see anything to do with it, talking to me is something they should do on their lunch break.<br>

Nobody's saying be hostile to the police.  Just recognize that if you're an honest citizen, talking to them is usually wasteful, and if you're a suspect, talking to them without a lawyer present is sure to find you trouble.  As has been noted elsewhere in this thread, in their eyes, suspects are Fair Game, and there's no real way to know if you're a suspect or not.  They're totally willing and able to say, "You're not a suspect" to a suspect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit on your bullshit .
I do not want to make their job hard .
I want to make it as hard as possible to investigate me , because if I have n't done what they 're looking into , investigating me is the opposite of their job .
If the police are investigating me as a suspect , they 're wasting my tax dollars and yours , because I did n't do it .
It 's a matter of fiscal responsibility to my fellow citizens .
If I 'm a witness , one poorly chosen word can let them think my fuzzy description of a flurry of activity is really a bumbled alibi , leading to more wasted resources .
If I did n't do it and I did n't see anything to do with it , talking to me is something they should do on their lunch break .
Nobody 's saying be hostile to the police .
Just recognize that if you 're an honest citizen , talking to them is usually wasteful , and if you 're a suspect , talking to them without a lawyer present is sure to find you trouble .
As has been noted elsewhere in this thread , in their eyes , suspects are Fair Game , and there 's no real way to know if you 're a suspect or not .
They 're totally willing and able to say , " You 're not a suspect " to a suspect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit on your bullshit.
I do not want to make their job hard.
I want to make it as hard as possible to investigate me, because if I haven't done what they're looking into, investigating me is the opposite of their job.
If the police are investigating me as a suspect, they're wasting my tax dollars and yours, because I didn't do it.
It's a matter of fiscal responsibility to my fellow citizens.
If I'm a witness, one poorly chosen word can let them think my fuzzy description of a flurry of activity is really a bumbled alibi, leading to more wasted resources.
If I didn't do it and I didn't see anything to do with it, talking to me is something they should do on their lunch break.
Nobody's saying be hostile to the police.
Just recognize that if you're an honest citizen, talking to them is usually wasteful, and if you're a suspect, talking to them without a lawyer present is sure to find you trouble.
As has been noted elsewhere in this thread, in their eyes, suspects are Fair Game, and there's no real way to know if you're a suspect or not.
They're totally willing and able to say, "You're not a suspect" to a suspect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328092</id>
	<title>Re:WAIVE NOTHING..EVER..EVER!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267531140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.</p></div><p>I would never seek the assistance of the police. In doing so, you allow yourself to become a criminal instead of a victim.</p><p>I site for reference a ton of cases reported and unreported of people defending their homes from burglary, vandalism, threat, etc. calling the police, and being arrested themselves rather than the perpetrators.<br>Never call the police, never help the police, never speak to them. They are the enemy. They do their "job" to get a paycheque, which has nothing to do with keeping you safe, contrary to what you may be lead to believe.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police , you wo n't run into one that you 've pissed off along the way.I would never seek the assistance of the police .
In doing so , you allow yourself to become a criminal instead of a victim.I site for reference a ton of cases reported and unreported of people defending their homes from burglary , vandalism , threat , etc .
calling the police , and being arrested themselves rather than the perpetrators.Never call the police , never help the police , never speak to them .
They are the enemy .
They do their " job " to get a paycheque , which has nothing to do with keeping you safe , contrary to what you may be lead to believe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hopefully if you ever need the assistance of the police, you won't run into one that you've pissed off along the way.I would never seek the assistance of the police.
In doing so, you allow yourself to become a criminal instead of a victim.I site for reference a ton of cases reported and unreported of people defending their homes from burglary, vandalism, threat, etc.
calling the police, and being arrested themselves rather than the perpetrators.Never call the police, never help the police, never speak to them.
They are the enemy.
They do their "job" to get a paycheque, which has nothing to do with keeping you safe, contrary to what you may be lead to believe.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31330946</id>
	<title>Re:UK Police are driven by targets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267550340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dutch politicians are absolutely NOT trustworthy, I have no idea where you got the idea they are. I know what I'm talking about: I'm Dutch by birth and habitat and have always had a keen interest in politics. They lie, cheat, deceive, misrepresent, twist, turn, ignore, steal, rape, pillage and whatever else you can imagine as much as any other politician. They have no moral fiber or backbone. The only thing of interest to them is the results in the next elections. Promises made are null and void within minutes of them being made. They are repulsive and sickening. I have always been an advocate of corporal punishment for misbehaving politicians, but somehow they don't deem it necessary. Yet, in their own words: "why object if you have nothing to hide?"</p><p>I might be biased by the brainless electoral propaganda that has been spewed over us the past month, where the shape and colour of the mouth is more important than the words that come out of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dutch politicians are absolutely NOT trustworthy , I have no idea where you got the idea they are .
I know what I 'm talking about : I 'm Dutch by birth and habitat and have always had a keen interest in politics .
They lie , cheat , deceive , misrepresent , twist , turn , ignore , steal , rape , pillage and whatever else you can imagine as much as any other politician .
They have no moral fiber or backbone .
The only thing of interest to them is the results in the next elections .
Promises made are null and void within minutes of them being made .
They are repulsive and sickening .
I have always been an advocate of corporal punishment for misbehaving politicians , but somehow they do n't deem it necessary .
Yet , in their own words : " why object if you have nothing to hide ?
" I might be biased by the brainless electoral propaganda that has been spewed over us the past month , where the shape and colour of the mouth is more important than the words that come out of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dutch politicians are absolutely NOT trustworthy, I have no idea where you got the idea they are.
I know what I'm talking about: I'm Dutch by birth and habitat and have always had a keen interest in politics.
They lie, cheat, deceive, misrepresent, twist, turn, ignore, steal, rape, pillage and whatever else you can imagine as much as any other politician.
They have no moral fiber or backbone.
The only thing of interest to them is the results in the next elections.
Promises made are null and void within minutes of them being made.
They are repulsive and sickening.
I have always been an advocate of corporal punishment for misbehaving politicians, but somehow they don't deem it necessary.
Yet, in their own words: "why object if you have nothing to hide?
"I might be biased by the brainless electoral propaganda that has been spewed over us the past month, where the shape and colour of the mouth is more important than the words that come out of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327446</id>
	<title>When will people learn...</title>
	<author>Fallen Kell</author>
	<datestamp>1267521780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The police in an investigation can and will only ever help the prosecution. They are not going to help the defense of anyone. The only person who will do that is you and your lawyer. Even if you have proof that you were not the person, if the local DA or Magistrate or whatever it is in your country decides to have charges brought against you, whatever you said, did, provided, etc., will be used against you. Even if you are simply saying something like that you were not in the area at that time, you don't know if the police already have a witness that said they saw you, and as such, unless you have real "proof", you are simply "lying", and thus they will think even more so that you are the guilty party. I know people think that they should "help" the police in many of these cases, but the best thing you can do is say, "I am sorry, but I will not talk to you without a lawyer", and leave it at that. All you can do is get yourself in trouble.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The police in an investigation can and will only ever help the prosecution .
They are not going to help the defense of anyone .
The only person who will do that is you and your lawyer .
Even if you have proof that you were not the person , if the local DA or Magistrate or whatever it is in your country decides to have charges brought against you , whatever you said , did , provided , etc. , will be used against you .
Even if you are simply saying something like that you were not in the area at that time , you do n't know if the police already have a witness that said they saw you , and as such , unless you have real " proof " , you are simply " lying " , and thus they will think even more so that you are the guilty party .
I know people think that they should " help " the police in many of these cases , but the best thing you can do is say , " I am sorry , but I will not talk to you without a lawyer " , and leave it at that .
All you can do is get yourself in trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The police in an investigation can and will only ever help the prosecution.
They are not going to help the defense of anyone.
The only person who will do that is you and your lawyer.
Even if you have proof that you were not the person, if the local DA or Magistrate or whatever it is in your country decides to have charges brought against you, whatever you said, did, provided, etc., will be used against you.
Even if you are simply saying something like that you were not in the area at that time, you don't know if the police already have a witness that said they saw you, and as such, unless you have real "proof", you are simply "lying", and thus they will think even more so that you are the guilty party.
I know people think that they should "help" the police in many of these cases, but the best thing you can do is say, "I am sorry, but I will not talk to you without a lawyer", and leave it at that.
All you can do is get yourself in trouble.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31332740</id>
	<title>Compulsory DNA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267556940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not just get everyone's DNA at birth and be done with? If it results in one less murder per year then it is worth doing. Why would anyone except a criminal worry about the police having their DNA?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just get everyone 's DNA at birth and be done with ?
If it results in one less murder per year then it is worth doing .
Why would anyone except a criminal worry about the police having their DNA ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just get everyone's DNA at birth and be done with?
If it results in one less murder per year then it is worth doing.
Why would anyone except a criminal worry about the police having their DNA?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327422</id>
	<title>Re:You believed them when the promised?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1267521360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He may have been naive when he did that, but if UK police force is not up to his expectations with that regard, the blame is still with the police, and that's where things should be fixed.</p><p>If you don't trust policemen in your country, same logic applies. Why do you give guns (and the discretion to use lethal force) to people who aren't trusted with much more mundane things?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He may have been naive when he did that , but if UK police force is not up to his expectations with that regard , the blame is still with the police , and that 's where things should be fixed.If you do n't trust policemen in your country , same logic applies .
Why do you give guns ( and the discretion to use lethal force ) to people who are n't trusted with much more mundane things ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He may have been naive when he did that, but if UK police force is not up to his expectations with that regard, the blame is still with the police, and that's where things should be fixed.If you don't trust policemen in your country, same logic applies.
Why do you give guns (and the discretion to use lethal force) to people who aren't trusted with much more mundane things?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327340</id>
	<title>Re:You believed them when the promised?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267563360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just replace <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik" title="youtube.com">"don't talk to the police"</a> [youtube.com] with "don't provide DNA/etc voluntarily to the police."  You don't gain anything by talking to the police nor providing genetic evidence without a proper warrant.  Different reasons same good advice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just replace " do n't talk to the police " [ youtube.com ] with " do n't provide DNA/etc voluntarily to the police .
" You do n't gain anything by talking to the police nor providing genetic evidence without a proper warrant .
Different reasons same good advice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just replace "don't talk to the police" [youtube.com] with "don't provide DNA/etc voluntarily to the police.
"  You don't gain anything by talking to the police nor providing genetic evidence without a proper warrant.
Different reasons same good advice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31329290</id>
	<title>Re:you guys should have rtfa this time. It was goo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267542720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless I miss my guess, I'd say that the fellow being "close to death" when they found him means that he was actually still alive.  In other words, they asked him what happened...</p><p>Though the circumstances are still quite suspicious I verily agree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless I miss my guess , I 'd say that the fellow being " close to death " when they found him means that he was actually still alive .
In other words , they asked him what happened...Though the circumstances are still quite suspicious I verily agree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless I miss my guess, I'd say that the fellow being "close to death" when they found him means that he was actually still alive.
In other words, they asked him what happened...Though the circumstances are still quite suspicious I verily agree.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327720</id>
	<title>Re:Hairdressers</title>
	<author>ArsenneLupin</author>
	<datestamp>1267525680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Around here, some hairdressers are so busy that you need an appointment. So you need to at least give first name.<p>
And possibly also a number, just in case they need to call you back if they have to move your appointment for whatever reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Around here , some hairdressers are so busy that you need an appointment .
So you need to at least give first name .
And possibly also a number , just in case they need to call you back if they have to move your appointment for whatever reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Around here, some hairdressers are so busy that you need an appointment.
So you need to at least give first name.
And possibly also a number, just in case they need to call you back if they have to move your appointment for whatever reason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328784</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1267539660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lying to the police is a serious crime in the UK, and can get you years in prison, even if you are innocent of any other crime. It's a shame it's not a two way thing. (And before anyone points it out, this wouldn't include undercover cases - by cases a police officer makes himself known as such, and lies to the public.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lying to the police is a serious crime in the UK , and can get you years in prison , even if you are innocent of any other crime .
It 's a shame it 's not a two way thing .
( And before anyone points it out , this would n't include undercover cases - by cases a police officer makes himself known as such , and lies to the public .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lying to the police is a serious crime in the UK, and can get you years in prison, even if you are innocent of any other crime.
It's a shame it's not a two way thing.
(And before anyone points it out, this wouldn't include undercover cases - by cases a police officer makes himself known as such, and lies to the public.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327916</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>evilbessie</author>
	<datestamp>1267528740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>In other news the pope continues to shit in the woods and bears are catholic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other news the pope continues to shit in the woods and bears are catholic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other news the pope continues to shit in the woods and bears are catholic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328662</id>
	<title>Re:You believed them when the promised?</title>
	<author>jisatsusha</author>
	<datestamp>1267538580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Small clarification, but the vast majority of police in the uk do not carry guns. When arms are involved, specialised armed response teams are called. The uk is fairly unique in that respect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Small clarification , but the vast majority of police in the uk do not carry guns .
When arms are involved , specialised armed response teams are called .
The uk is fairly unique in that respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small clarification, but the vast majority of police in the uk do not carry guns.
When arms are involved, specialised armed response teams are called.
The uk is fairly unique in that respect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328760</id>
	<title>Re:Freedom is a lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267539420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So your defense of all those camera's is that people already know the problems with them and that they are a clever ruse to deter criminals?</p><p>You may value your practical freedom, but you seem to have no concept of the abstract idea.</p><p>It's okay to put in a system design to spy on me because it isn't very effective?  What happens if it become more effective?  Do you take them down?  Do you get upset?  How would you know?</p><p>Your right that we do not live in "old school soviet russia", but do not pretend that your government isn't trying for the exact same thing.  They are just taking a soft approach.</p><p>Frankly, I'd prefer the government to be heavy handed in this regard so that people like you do not lull yourselves into happy dreams while the government systematically removes all our chances of resistance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So your defense of all those camera 's is that people already know the problems with them and that they are a clever ruse to deter criminals ? You may value your practical freedom , but you seem to have no concept of the abstract idea.It 's okay to put in a system design to spy on me because it is n't very effective ?
What happens if it become more effective ?
Do you take them down ?
Do you get upset ?
How would you know ? Your right that we do not live in " old school soviet russia " , but do not pretend that your government is n't trying for the exact same thing .
They are just taking a soft approach.Frankly , I 'd prefer the government to be heavy handed in this regard so that people like you do not lull yourselves into happy dreams while the government systematically removes all our chances of resistance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So your defense of all those camera's is that people already know the problems with them and that they are a clever ruse to deter criminals?You may value your practical freedom, but you seem to have no concept of the abstract idea.It's okay to put in a system design to spy on me because it isn't very effective?
What happens if it become more effective?
Do you take them down?
Do you get upset?
How would you know?Your right that we do not live in "old school soviet russia", but do not pretend that your government isn't trying for the exact same thing.
They are just taking a soft approach.Frankly, I'd prefer the government to be heavy handed in this regard so that people like you do not lull yourselves into happy dreams while the government systematically removes all our chances of resistance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327870</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31331982</id>
	<title>I wonder</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1267554600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is having them retain DNA a bad thing?</p><p>They can't use it to follow you. It in no way implies and admission of guilt, and in the US it may not be used if it is considered self incrimenation. Of course that does not apply to DNA left at the scene, only to the use of DNA you voluntarily gave.</p><p>They aren't searching your property for a crime. In fact they can't use it of itself to show you committed a crime.</p><p>In fact, I don't see how the arguments for privacy, and illegal search and seizure even apply to having DNA on file.</p><p>Is there even a chilling effect on freedoms? I can't think of anything I have not done because my fingerprints are on a file.</p><p>Please try to maintain some semblance of rational when replying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is having them retain DNA a bad thing ? They ca n't use it to follow you .
It in no way implies and admission of guilt , and in the US it may not be used if it is considered self incrimenation .
Of course that does not apply to DNA left at the scene , only to the use of DNA you voluntarily gave.They are n't searching your property for a crime .
In fact they ca n't use it of itself to show you committed a crime.In fact , I do n't see how the arguments for privacy , and illegal search and seizure even apply to having DNA on file.Is there even a chilling effect on freedoms ?
I ca n't think of anything I have not done because my fingerprints are on a file.Please try to maintain some semblance of rational when replying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is having them retain DNA a bad thing?They can't use it to follow you.
It in no way implies and admission of guilt, and in the US it may not be used if it is considered self incrimenation.
Of course that does not apply to DNA left at the scene, only to the use of DNA you voluntarily gave.They aren't searching your property for a crime.
In fact they can't use it of itself to show you committed a crime.In fact, I don't see how the arguments for privacy, and illegal search and seizure even apply to having DNA on file.Is there even a chilling effect on freedoms?
I can't think of anything I have not done because my fingerprints are on a file.Please try to maintain some semblance of rational when replying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328488</id>
	<title>It's worse than that - Wales isn't England either</title>
	<author>feepcreature</author>
	<datestamp>1267536660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>it's not UK police, it's English Police</p></div></blockquote><p>If we're being picky, it should probably be all the police forces in England and Wales. There are quite a few of them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not UK police , it 's English PoliceIf we 're being picky , it should probably be all the police forces in England and Wales .
There are quite a few of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not UK police, it's English PoliceIf we're being picky, it should probably be all the police forces in England and Wales.
There are quite a few of them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327874</id>
	<title>voluntarily gave them a DNA and fingerprint sample</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267528380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would you do that? You know that you didn't do it, don't you? You could save them the price of analyzing your DNA by not giving a sample, and apparently there are other benefits of not participating in mass screenings...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would you do that ?
You know that you did n't do it , do n't you ?
You could save them the price of analyzing your DNA by not giving a sample , and apparently there are other benefits of not participating in mass screenings.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would you do that?
You know that you didn't do it, don't you?
You could save them the price of analyzing your DNA by not giving a sample, and apparently there are other benefits of not participating in mass screenings...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31328428</id>
	<title>Re:Not the first</title>
	<author>MoonBuggy</author>
	<datestamp>1267535760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fair point, but there's still a significant difference between "Your data still exists on a backup tape which is currently in storage, half way through it's five-year retention period" and "Your data still exists in a live, searchable database".</p><p>I'd consider the former to be a reasonable, but imperfect, effort to comply with the spirit of their promise. The latter, however, is a knowing and outright lie, for which the police should (due to the inherent imbalance of power) be more severely punished than an equivalent 'guy on the street'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fair point , but there 's still a significant difference between " Your data still exists on a backup tape which is currently in storage , half way through it 's five-year retention period " and " Your data still exists in a live , searchable database " .I 'd consider the former to be a reasonable , but imperfect , effort to comply with the spirit of their promise .
The latter , however , is a knowing and outright lie , for which the police should ( due to the inherent imbalance of power ) be more severely punished than an equivalent 'guy on the street' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fair point, but there's still a significant difference between "Your data still exists on a backup tape which is currently in storage, half way through it's five-year retention period" and "Your data still exists in a live, searchable database".I'd consider the former to be a reasonable, but imperfect, effort to comply with the spirit of their promise.
The latter, however, is a knowing and outright lie, for which the police should (due to the inherent imbalance of power) be more severely punished than an equivalent 'guy on the street'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327238</id>
	<title>NEVER talk to the police.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267561920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc" title="youtube.com">Watch and learn</a> [youtube.com].</p><p>-jcr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Watch and learn [ youtube.com ] .-jcr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watch and learn [youtube.com].-jcr</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31334970</id>
	<title>Re:Don't give a Sample</title>
	<author>Cederic</author>
	<datestamp>1267522200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just don't give them a sample without a court order, ever.</p></div><p>No court order needed. They just need to arrest you.</p><p>Yeah, I think that's fucked up too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just do n't give them a sample without a court order , ever.No court order needed .
They just need to arrest you.Yeah , I think that 's fucked up too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just don't give them a sample without a court order, ever.No court order needed.
They just need to arrest you.Yeah, I think that's fucked up too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2333221.31327716</parent>
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