<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_01_2250248</id>
	<title>Newborns' Blood Used To Build Secret DNA Database</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1267447500000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Kanel notes a summary up at New Scientist of an investigation by a Texas newspaper revealing that Texas health officials had <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/02/ewen-callaway-reportertexas-he.html">secretly transferred hundreds of newborn babies' blood samples to the federal government</a> to build a DNA database. Here's the (long and detailed) <a href="http://www.texastribune.org/stories/2010/feb/22/dna-deception/">article in the Texas Tribune</a>. From New Scientist: <i>"The Texas Department of State Health Services routinely collected blood samples from newborns to screen for a variety of health conditions, before throwing the samples out. But beginning in 2002, the DSHS contracted Texas A&amp;M University to store blood samples for potential use in medical research. These accumulated at rate of 800,000 per year. The DSHS did not obtain permission from parents, who sued the DSHS, which settled in November 2009. Now the Tribune reveals that wasn't the end of the matter. As it turns out, between 2003 and 2007, the DSHS also gave 800 anonymized blood samples to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory to help create a national mitochondrial DNA database. This came to light after repeated open records requests filed by the Tribune turned up documents detailing the mtDNA program. Apparently, these samples were part of a larger program to build a national, perhaps international, DNA database that could be used to track down missing persons and solve cold cases."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kanel notes a summary up at New Scientist of an investigation by a Texas newspaper revealing that Texas health officials had secretly transferred hundreds of newborn babies ' blood samples to the federal government to build a DNA database .
Here 's the ( long and detailed ) article in the Texas Tribune .
From New Scientist : " The Texas Department of State Health Services routinely collected blood samples from newborns to screen for a variety of health conditions , before throwing the samples out .
But beginning in 2002 , the DSHS contracted Texas A&amp;M University to store blood samples for potential use in medical research .
These accumulated at rate of 800,000 per year .
The DSHS did not obtain permission from parents , who sued the DSHS , which settled in November 2009 .
Now the Tribune reveals that was n't the end of the matter .
As it turns out , between 2003 and 2007 , the DSHS also gave 800 anonymized blood samples to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory to help create a national mitochondrial DNA database .
This came to light after repeated open records requests filed by the Tribune turned up documents detailing the mtDNA program .
Apparently , these samples were part of a larger program to build a national , perhaps international , DNA database that could be used to track down missing persons and solve cold cases .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kanel notes a summary up at New Scientist of an investigation by a Texas newspaper revealing that Texas health officials had secretly transferred hundreds of newborn babies' blood samples to the federal government to build a DNA database.
Here's the (long and detailed) article in the Texas Tribune.
From New Scientist: "The Texas Department of State Health Services routinely collected blood samples from newborns to screen for a variety of health conditions, before throwing the samples out.
But beginning in 2002, the DSHS contracted Texas A&amp;M University to store blood samples for potential use in medical research.
These accumulated at rate of 800,000 per year.
The DSHS did not obtain permission from parents, who sued the DSHS, which settled in November 2009.
Now the Tribune reveals that wasn't the end of the matter.
As it turns out, between 2003 and 2007, the DSHS also gave 800 anonymized blood samples to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory to help create a national mitochondrial DNA database.
This came to light after repeated open records requests filed by the Tribune turned up documents detailing the mtDNA program.
Apparently, these samples were part of a larger program to build a national, perhaps international, DNA database that could be used to track down missing persons and solve cold cases.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325868</id>
	<title>Re:to remove some confusion:</title>
	<author>B1ackDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1267459560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was going to say something about the relative rates of drift in mitochondrial dna, but I think you've hit it spot on. I take it there aren't any microsatellites in mtDNA?<br> <br>

Anyway, for those interested, <a href="http://assets0.pubget.com/pdf/17784923.pdf" title="pubget.com">here's</a> [pubget.com] an interesting paper regarding a relatively variant region in mitochondrial dna, but for butterflies, rather than humans. Notice that even in butterflies (which have a generation per year), there are some variants which are present over a vast portion of the range of the species---definitely not useful for identifying individuals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to say something about the relative rates of drift in mitochondrial dna , but I think you 've hit it spot on .
I take it there are n't any microsatellites in mtDNA ?
Anyway , for those interested , here 's [ pubget.com ] an interesting paper regarding a relatively variant region in mitochondrial dna , but for butterflies , rather than humans .
Notice that even in butterflies ( which have a generation per year ) , there are some variants which are present over a vast portion of the range of the species---definitely not useful for identifying individuals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to say something about the relative rates of drift in mitochondrial dna, but I think you've hit it spot on.
I take it there aren't any microsatellites in mtDNA?
Anyway, for those interested, here's [pubget.com] an interesting paper regarding a relatively variant region in mitochondrial dna, but for butterflies, rather than humans.
Notice that even in butterflies (which have a generation per year), there are some variants which are present over a vast portion of the range of the species---definitely not useful for identifying individuals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326130</id>
	<title>A direct question</title>
	<author>LordZardoz</author>
	<datestamp>1267462200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have one question here.</p><p>1)  Do you believe that it is inappropriate for a democratically elected government to build, maintain, and use a DNA Database?  (If so, why?)<br>2)  Do you think this was intentionally covered up, or that no one thought it was important enough to warrant mentioning.</p><p>Outside of military projects, governments do not generally go out of thier way to keep secrets.  The vast majority of what any given government does is mundane and not especially important, surprising, or noteworthy.  So in all fairness, I do not think this database was made secret intentionally by some moustache twirling villain type hoping to oppress the citizens of Texas.</p><p>As for the first point, I am a bit torn on it.  If your willing to assume that the governments intentions for such a database are not inherently evil (ie:  lets identify all them jews and forieners so we can purge them later), I am not so sure I see a problem with it.  However, that only would apply as long as the government in question is using the database in a responsible fashion.  That means not selling the data, taking adequate measures to keep that data safe, and requiring a warrant before running a suspects DNA against the database.  If a criminal leaves DNA evidence at a crime scene, then I see no problem of having the means to run a check against it.</p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have one question here.1 ) Do you believe that it is inappropriate for a democratically elected government to build , maintain , and use a DNA Database ?
( If so , why ?
) 2 ) Do you think this was intentionally covered up , or that no one thought it was important enough to warrant mentioning.Outside of military projects , governments do not generally go out of thier way to keep secrets .
The vast majority of what any given government does is mundane and not especially important , surprising , or noteworthy .
So in all fairness , I do not think this database was made secret intentionally by some moustache twirling villain type hoping to oppress the citizens of Texas.As for the first point , I am a bit torn on it .
If your willing to assume that the governments intentions for such a database are not inherently evil ( ie : lets identify all them jews and forieners so we can purge them later ) , I am not so sure I see a problem with it .
However , that only would apply as long as the government in question is using the database in a responsible fashion .
That means not selling the data , taking adequate measures to keep that data safe , and requiring a warrant before running a suspects DNA against the database .
If a criminal leaves DNA evidence at a crime scene , then I see no problem of having the means to run a check against it.END COMMUNICATION</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have one question here.1)  Do you believe that it is inappropriate for a democratically elected government to build, maintain, and use a DNA Database?
(If so, why?
)2)  Do you think this was intentionally covered up, or that no one thought it was important enough to warrant mentioning.Outside of military projects, governments do not generally go out of thier way to keep secrets.
The vast majority of what any given government does is mundane and not especially important, surprising, or noteworthy.
So in all fairness, I do not think this database was made secret intentionally by some moustache twirling villain type hoping to oppress the citizens of Texas.As for the first point, I am a bit torn on it.
If your willing to assume that the governments intentions for such a database are not inherently evil (ie:  lets identify all them jews and forieners so we can purge them later), I am not so sure I see a problem with it.
However, that only would apply as long as the government in question is using the database in a responsible fashion.
That means not selling the data, taking adequate measures to keep that data safe, and requiring a warrant before running a suspects DNA against the database.
If a criminal leaves DNA evidence at a crime scene, then I see no problem of having the means to run a check against it.END COMMUNICATION</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329698</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Tuoqui</author>
	<datestamp>1267544640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".</p></div><p>I was thinking it might be more like 'You have the deadbeat gene, GTFO'</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Oh , sorry , your Genetic Rating ( tm ) says you probably wo n't live long enough to pay us back , ca n't help you with that new car " .I was thinking it might be more like 'You have the deadbeat gene , GTFO '</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".I was thinking it might be more like 'You have the deadbeat gene, GTFO'
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325158</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>zill</author>
	<datestamp>1267453500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them, and you have no property rights over it. </p></div><p>That's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis. If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it's a breach of contract.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital , it belongs to them , and you have no property rights over it .
That 's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis .
If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it 's a breach of contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them, and you have no property rights over it.
That's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis.
If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it's a breach of contract.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325572</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, you shit everyday, and it has plenty of your genetic material in it. If you want you lifetime's worth of shit back, just let me know where do you want it dumped. Is your basement fine with you, kind sir?</p><p>You're just silly. Genetic materials are given up routinely by you, unconsciously, wherever you go. If you don't like it that way, you'd have to die first. Same goes for the atoms in your body. I've got at least one oxygen atom that belonged to you, to Julia Roberts, and to Adolf Hitler in my body. Same goes for you. This whole expectation of yours, summarized as "it's mine, mine, mine" isn't worth much in light of the reality of things. If you insist in living in sterile conditions -- fine, but you pay for it with your own money please. The notion that you somehow own the IP rights to your genetic material is idiotic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , you shit everyday , and it has plenty of your genetic material in it .
If you want you lifetime 's worth of shit back , just let me know where do you want it dumped .
Is your basement fine with you , kind sir ? You 're just silly .
Genetic materials are given up routinely by you , unconsciously , wherever you go .
If you do n't like it that way , you 'd have to die first .
Same goes for the atoms in your body .
I 've got at least one oxygen atom that belonged to you , to Julia Roberts , and to Adolf Hitler in my body .
Same goes for you .
This whole expectation of yours , summarized as " it 's mine , mine , mine " is n't worth much in light of the reality of things .
If you insist in living in sterile conditions -- fine , but you pay for it with your own money please .
The notion that you somehow own the IP rights to your genetic material is idiotic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, you shit everyday, and it has plenty of your genetic material in it.
If you want you lifetime's worth of shit back, just let me know where do you want it dumped.
Is your basement fine with you, kind sir?You're just silly.
Genetic materials are given up routinely by you, unconsciously, wherever you go.
If you don't like it that way, you'd have to die first.
Same goes for the atoms in your body.
I've got at least one oxygen atom that belonged to you, to Julia Roberts, and to Adolf Hitler in my body.
Same goes for you.
This whole expectation of yours, summarized as "it's mine, mine, mine" isn't worth much in light of the reality of things.
If you insist in living in sterile conditions -- fine, but you pay for it with your own money please.
The notion that you somehow own the IP rights to your genetic material is idiotic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325134</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>apokruphos</author>
	<datestamp>1267453380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can think of a large number of people that need to go to prison, though I don't know that any of the people involved in this event are on that list.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can think of a large number of people that need to go to prison , though I do n't know that any of the people involved in this event are on that list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can think of a large number of people that need to go to prison, though I don't know that any of the people involved in this event are on that list.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326300</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267463880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights. And therefore the issue was...?</p></div><p>How do you reconcile that there was no issue of property rights with Monsanto patenting their corns DNA? Do my parents have a right to patent my DNA?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So there was no privacy issue , and no issue of property rights .
And therefore the issue was... ? How do you reconcile that there was no issue of property rights with Monsanto patenting their corns DNA ?
Do my parents have a right to patent my DNA ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights.
And therefore the issue was...?How do you reconcile that there was no issue of property rights with Monsanto patenting their corns DNA?
Do my parents have a right to patent my DNA?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329014</id>
	<title>Bloodspots != storage in a database</title>
	<author>wintercolby</author>
	<datestamp>1267541160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you'd RTFA (I know This Is Slashdot) you'd have read that:<p><div class="quote"><p>Until 2002, the cards were thrown out after a short storage period. But starting that year, the state health department began <b>storing blood spots indefinitely</b>, for &ldquo;research into causes of selected diseases.&rdquo;</p></div><p>
The disconcerting part that you mention is <b>last years news.</b>  They are now destroying the blood spots.  Nowhere in the article, and I scoured it, does it say that all the samples were entered into a database.  It does, however, say that the samples are being destroyed:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>While the agency is destroying more than 5 million baby blood spots collected before the new legislation took effect, she says, officials are not asking outside researchers &mdash; including those at the Armed Forces lab &mdash; to return the samples they were given. But they must destroy them when they are done with them.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 'd RTFA ( I know This Is Slashdot ) you 'd have read that : Until 2002 , the cards were thrown out after a short storage period .
But starting that year , the state health department began storing blood spots indefinitely , for    research into causes of selected diseases.    The disconcerting part that you mention is last years news .
They are now destroying the blood spots .
Nowhere in the article , and I scoured it , does it say that all the samples were entered into a database .
It does , however , say that the samples are being destroyed : While the agency is destroying more than 5 million baby blood spots collected before the new legislation took effect , she says , officials are not asking outside researchers    including those at the Armed Forces lab    to return the samples they were given .
But they must destroy them when they are done with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you'd RTFA (I know This Is Slashdot) you'd have read that:Until 2002, the cards were thrown out after a short storage period.
But starting that year, the state health department began storing blood spots indefinitely, for “research into causes of selected diseases.”
The disconcerting part that you mention is last years news.
They are now destroying the blood spots.
Nowhere in the article, and I scoured it, does it say that all the samples were entered into a database.
It does, however, say that the samples are being destroyed:While the agency is destroying more than 5 million baby blood spots collected before the new legislation took effect, she says, officials are not asking outside researchers — including those at the Armed Forces lab — to return the samples they were given.
But they must destroy them when they are done with them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329338</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1267542900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them</i> </p><p>
&nbsp; No. It "belongs" to the being it was taken from. The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It does not matter who sequenced it first. It does not matter whether it has unique properties. It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.</p><p>
&nbsp; No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.</p><p>
&nbsp; Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to, there are things that we - as human beings - won't give up. This is one of them.  History proves that.</p><p>
&nbsp; If those in power wish to [continue] to do so, they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have; they will eventually be replaced.</p><p>
&nbsp; Fools.</p><p>SB</p></div><p>Nonsense, by that logic then your parent's actually have a joint ownership of your DNA since it is a derative work. And so on and so on up the geneology. Listen, this is the 21st century you and I are pesants, only nobles, the wealthy, and celebs have rights. Your assertion of some sort of right, while noble, isn't the case. Justice belongs to those who can afford it and with government backed health industry, they can afford it, you and I cannot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital , it belongs to them   No .
It " belongs " to the being it was taken from .
The being it was taken from has first " copyright " / " patent " / " trademark " to it ( add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary , here )       It does not matter who sequenced it first .
It does not matter whether it has unique properties .
It does not matter who it was taken from , whether they consented to it , or not .
  No corporation , government , nor any other entity , can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to .
  Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to , there are things that we - as human beings - wo n't give up .
This is one of them .
History proves that .
  If those in power wish to [ continue ] to do so , they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have ; they will eventually be replaced .
  Fools.SBNonsense , by that logic then your parent 's actually have a joint ownership of your DNA since it is a derative work .
And so on and so on up the geneology .
Listen , this is the 21st century you and I are pesants , only nobles , the wealthy , and celebs have rights .
Your assertion of some sort of right , while noble , is n't the case .
Justice belongs to those who can afford it and with government backed health industry , they can afford it , you and I can not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them 
  No.
It "belongs" to the being it was taken from.
The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)
      It does not matter who sequenced it first.
It does not matter whether it has unique properties.
It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.
  No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.
  Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to, there are things that we - as human beings - won't give up.
This is one of them.
History proves that.
  If those in power wish to [continue] to do so, they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have; they will eventually be replaced.
  Fools.SBNonsense, by that logic then your parent's actually have a joint ownership of your DNA since it is a derative work.
And so on and so on up the geneology.
Listen, this is the 21st century you and I are pesants, only nobles, the wealthy, and celebs have rights.
Your assertion of some sort of right, while noble, isn't the case.
Justice belongs to those who can afford it and with government backed health industry, they can afford it, you and I cannot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326118</id>
	<title>HIPAA overrides that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, not *really* HIPAA <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_Insurance\_Portability\_and\_Accountability\_Act" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_Insurance\_Portability\_and\_Accountability\_Act</a> [wikipedia.org], just the clauses your health insurance and the doctors/hospitals added once HIPAA gave them a vehicle to require you to explicitly sign away your rights to your medical information.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , not * really * HIPAA http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health \ _Insurance \ _Portability \ _and \ _Accountability \ _Act [ wikipedia.org ] , just the clauses your health insurance and the doctors/hospitals added once HIPAA gave them a vehicle to require you to explicitly sign away your rights to your medical information .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, not *really* HIPAA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health\_Insurance\_Portability\_and\_Accountability\_Act [wikipedia.org], just the clauses your health insurance and the doctors/hospitals added once HIPAA gave them a vehicle to require you to explicitly sign away your rights to your medical information.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327530</id>
	<title>Ireland's been doing it for awhile</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267522980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least they haven't been keeping blood on every newborn since 1984 like Temple Street childerns hospital in Dublin....</p><p>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6968561.ece</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least they have n't been keeping blood on every newborn since 1984 like Temple Street childerns hospital in Dublin....http : //www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6968561.ece</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least they haven't been keeping blood on every newborn since 1984 like Temple Street childerns hospital in Dublin....http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6968561.ece</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329454</id>
	<title>Double Standard</title>
	<author>RealErmine</author>
	<datestamp>1267543560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh sure, if newborn blood were used to build anything else it wouldn't be an issue.  But throw in a secret government database and suddenly the hippies are up in arms.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh sure , if newborn blood were used to build anything else it would n't be an issue .
But throw in a secret government database and suddenly the hippies are up in arms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh sure, if newborn blood were used to build anything else it wouldn't be an issue.
But throw in a secret government database and suddenly the hippies are up in arms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325712</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>langelgjm</author>
	<datestamp>1267458240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>On the legal side, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore\_v.\_Regents\_of\_the\_University\_of\_California" title="wikipedia.org">Moore v. Regents of the University of California</a> [wikipedia.org] is one of the most important cases on this issue.
<br> <br>
As for your comment, you have an interesting political philosophy. Ideas like property and ownership are neither inherent nor immutable. Absent government, society, and laws, things like "property", "ownership" and "mine/yours" are pretty much defined by what you can physically control or prevent others from taking from you. So sure, you own your shit (figuratively and literally) as long as you can stop anyone else from taking it. State of nature and all that.
<br> <br>
Of course none of us are in the state of nature anymore, we all live in societies with governments and legal systems that define certain sets of property rights and interests. I don't claim to be up to date on ownership of tissue issues, just recall that case from a class I took a while ago. But my point is that you make a philosophical claim about the nature of property and base it on a relationship between a human and an object. But property is fundamentally social: it is about a relationship between a human and another human with respect to some object.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the legal side , Moore v. Regents of the University of California [ wikipedia.org ] is one of the most important cases on this issue .
As for your comment , you have an interesting political philosophy .
Ideas like property and ownership are neither inherent nor immutable .
Absent government , society , and laws , things like " property " , " ownership " and " mine/yours " are pretty much defined by what you can physically control or prevent others from taking from you .
So sure , you own your shit ( figuratively and literally ) as long as you can stop anyone else from taking it .
State of nature and all that .
Of course none of us are in the state of nature anymore , we all live in societies with governments and legal systems that define certain sets of property rights and interests .
I do n't claim to be up to date on ownership of tissue issues , just recall that case from a class I took a while ago .
But my point is that you make a philosophical claim about the nature of property and base it on a relationship between a human and an object .
But property is fundamentally social : it is about a relationship between a human and another human with respect to some object .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the legal side, Moore v. Regents of the University of California [wikipedia.org] is one of the most important cases on this issue.
As for your comment, you have an interesting political philosophy.
Ideas like property and ownership are neither inherent nor immutable.
Absent government, society, and laws, things like "property", "ownership" and "mine/yours" are pretty much defined by what you can physically control or prevent others from taking from you.
So sure, you own your shit (figuratively and literally) as long as you can stop anyone else from taking it.
State of nature and all that.
Of course none of us are in the state of nature anymore, we all live in societies with governments and legal systems that define certain sets of property rights and interests.
I don't claim to be up to date on ownership of tissue issues, just recall that case from a class I took a while ago.
But my point is that you make a philosophical claim about the nature of property and base it on a relationship between a human and an object.
But property is fundamentally social: it is about a relationship between a human and another human with respect to some object.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31365726</id>
	<title>govt dna databases</title>
	<author>seekertom</author>
	<datestamp>1267712220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>we DO NOT know everything about what value our dna may/may not have, but if the govt wants to collect it and place it into a database, especially if it is done surreptitiously, you can bet it isn't a good thing for us. if it was, they'd be looking for all the attaboys available from the open forum. the bigger problem is this... what kind of a world are we living in when we feel we can't trust our 'elected' govt to do right by us? figger this out, then fix it, and all this OTHER crap will become a non-issue! thanks fer lis'nin'  seekertom</htmltext>
<tokenext>we DO NOT know everything about what value our dna may/may not have , but if the govt wants to collect it and place it into a database , especially if it is done surreptitiously , you can bet it is n't a good thing for us .
if it was , they 'd be looking for all the attaboys available from the open forum .
the bigger problem is this... what kind of a world are we living in when we feel we ca n't trust our 'elected ' govt to do right by us ?
figger this out , then fix it , and all this OTHER crap will become a non-issue !
thanks fer lis'nin ' seekertom</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we DO NOT know everything about what value our dna may/may not have, but if the govt wants to collect it and place it into a database, especially if it is done surreptitiously, you can bet it isn't a good thing for us.
if it was, they'd be looking for all the attaboys available from the open forum.
the bigger problem is this... what kind of a world are we living in when we feel we can't trust our 'elected' govt to do right by us?
figger this out, then fix it, and all this OTHER crap will become a non-issue!
thanks fer lis'nin'  seekertom</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325348</id>
	<title>to remove some confusion:</title>
	<author>rritterson</author>
	<datestamp>1267454940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let me explain to you why this is not as scary and outrageous as it would first seem. The summary and article are very good ones, but don't provide enough context for a non-expert to understand how serious/non-serious it is:<br> <br>

As the summary indicates and RTFA seems to confirm, DSHS collected the samples for use in anonymous human medical research. This is done all of the time, as another poster commented (and gave the great example of HeLa cells). Typically, an oversight committee reviews a great many details about your research plan and ensures your collection methods are sufficiently anonymous, and your research is done in such a way as to avoid revealing the identity of the sample if at all possible. (Usually, users are separated from the database maintainers, and the users never even know the identities of the samples).<br> <br>

As one example, co-worker of mine receives nasal swabs of infected children in Nicaragua, under the auspices of WHO and CDC. He screens them using very expensive diagnostic assays that aren't viable in the clinic but are useful for basic research. His lab has discovered several new viruses in these samples that weren't previously discovered due to geographic bias in clinical cohorts (you sample the people most likely to be able to pay for the cure). He never knows the names of the children, just age, symptoms, and previous infections. He has to renew his certification to work with human samples once a year to ensure he knows all relevant legal and ethical regulations, and must update his research plan regularly, and receive annual approval from the oversight committee, even if he doesn't change anything. (And must stop all research if he procrastinates and certification lapses) However, without being able to use these samples, both basic research and clinically relevant research would be hampered. DSHS probably operates in the same way.<br> <br>

The issue here is that these samples were passed to the federal government and they used them to build a DNA database. People sued primarily because DNA is considered very personal information in this country and having the government track you using it is a current moral panic/boogeyman. (Partially warranted, partially not). In this case, however, they were using mitochondrial DNA, which is separate from your normal chromosomal DNA. Because sperm have no mitochrondia, all of your mitochondrial DNA is passed matrilineally (i.e. from mother to child-- sons cannot pass it on at all). Because you only have one copy, it does not undergo recombination during sperm/egg generation, and thus changes very very slowly. As a result, people like the National Geographic Society are using the information to trace human migration patterns throughout history using mitochondrial sequence information (google it). However, because it's so similar from person to person ---<b>it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA is</b>--- instead, it can tell where your mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother came from, i.e. your ethnicity. With enough samples it may even be able to tell whether you are a recent immigrant, a long term american, etc. This means that, using this database as a source, police may one day collect mtDNA from a crime scene and know they are looking for a person from Eastern Europe that is 1st-3rd generation american. That is, it can be used to narrow suspects, but can't be used to identify you directly.<br> <br>

So, in the end, the information (at least to me, as a molecular biologist) is relatively harmless and perhaps even good, in balance. However, given the serious objections people would likely have if they had known their information would be used in this way, the oversight committee should have required additional consent to use and collect this information for each person's sample they collected (and insured the people who gave consent gave informed consent). That would have avoided the mess entirely, and been more ethical.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me explain to you why this is not as scary and outrageous as it would first seem .
The summary and article are very good ones , but do n't provide enough context for a non-expert to understand how serious/non-serious it is : As the summary indicates and RTFA seems to confirm , DSHS collected the samples for use in anonymous human medical research .
This is done all of the time , as another poster commented ( and gave the great example of HeLa cells ) .
Typically , an oversight committee reviews a great many details about your research plan and ensures your collection methods are sufficiently anonymous , and your research is done in such a way as to avoid revealing the identity of the sample if at all possible .
( Usually , users are separated from the database maintainers , and the users never even know the identities of the samples ) .
As one example , co-worker of mine receives nasal swabs of infected children in Nicaragua , under the auspices of WHO and CDC .
He screens them using very expensive diagnostic assays that are n't viable in the clinic but are useful for basic research .
His lab has discovered several new viruses in these samples that were n't previously discovered due to geographic bias in clinical cohorts ( you sample the people most likely to be able to pay for the cure ) .
He never knows the names of the children , just age , symptoms , and previous infections .
He has to renew his certification to work with human samples once a year to ensure he knows all relevant legal and ethical regulations , and must update his research plan regularly , and receive annual approval from the oversight committee , even if he does n't change anything .
( And must stop all research if he procrastinates and certification lapses ) However , without being able to use these samples , both basic research and clinically relevant research would be hampered .
DSHS probably operates in the same way .
The issue here is that these samples were passed to the federal government and they used them to build a DNA database .
People sued primarily because DNA is considered very personal information in this country and having the government track you using it is a current moral panic/boogeyman .
( Partially warranted , partially not ) .
In this case , however , they were using mitochondrial DNA , which is separate from your normal chromosomal DNA .
Because sperm have no mitochrondia , all of your mitochondrial DNA is passed matrilineally ( i.e .
from mother to child-- sons can not pass it on at all ) .
Because you only have one copy , it does not undergo recombination during sperm/egg generation , and thus changes very very slowly .
As a result , people like the National Geographic Society are using the information to trace human migration patterns throughout history using mitochondrial sequence information ( google it ) .
However , because it 's so similar from person to person ---it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA is--- instead , it can tell where your mother 's mother 's mother 's mother 's mother 's mother came from , i.e .
your ethnicity .
With enough samples it may even be able to tell whether you are a recent immigrant , a long term american , etc .
This means that , using this database as a source , police may one day collect mtDNA from a crime scene and know they are looking for a person from Eastern Europe that is 1st-3rd generation american .
That is , it can be used to narrow suspects , but ca n't be used to identify you directly .
So , in the end , the information ( at least to me , as a molecular biologist ) is relatively harmless and perhaps even good , in balance .
However , given the serious objections people would likely have if they had known their information would be used in this way , the oversight committee should have required additional consent to use and collect this information for each person 's sample they collected ( and insured the people who gave consent gave informed consent ) .
That would have avoided the mess entirely , and been more ethical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me explain to you why this is not as scary and outrageous as it would first seem.
The summary and article are very good ones, but don't provide enough context for a non-expert to understand how serious/non-serious it is: 

As the summary indicates and RTFA seems to confirm, DSHS collected the samples for use in anonymous human medical research.
This is done all of the time, as another poster commented (and gave the great example of HeLa cells).
Typically, an oversight committee reviews a great many details about your research plan and ensures your collection methods are sufficiently anonymous, and your research is done in such a way as to avoid revealing the identity of the sample if at all possible.
(Usually, users are separated from the database maintainers, and the users never even know the identities of the samples).
As one example, co-worker of mine receives nasal swabs of infected children in Nicaragua, under the auspices of WHO and CDC.
He screens them using very expensive diagnostic assays that aren't viable in the clinic but are useful for basic research.
His lab has discovered several new viruses in these samples that weren't previously discovered due to geographic bias in clinical cohorts (you sample the people most likely to be able to pay for the cure).
He never knows the names of the children, just age, symptoms, and previous infections.
He has to renew his certification to work with human samples once a year to ensure he knows all relevant legal and ethical regulations, and must update his research plan regularly, and receive annual approval from the oversight committee, even if he doesn't change anything.
(And must stop all research if he procrastinates and certification lapses) However, without being able to use these samples, both basic research and clinically relevant research would be hampered.
DSHS probably operates in the same way.
The issue here is that these samples were passed to the federal government and they used them to build a DNA database.
People sued primarily because DNA is considered very personal information in this country and having the government track you using it is a current moral panic/boogeyman.
(Partially warranted, partially not).
In this case, however, they were using mitochondrial DNA, which is separate from your normal chromosomal DNA.
Because sperm have no mitochrondia, all of your mitochondrial DNA is passed matrilineally (i.e.
from mother to child-- sons cannot pass it on at all).
Because you only have one copy, it does not undergo recombination during sperm/egg generation, and thus changes very very slowly.
As a result, people like the National Geographic Society are using the information to trace human migration patterns throughout history using mitochondrial sequence information (google it).
However, because it's so similar from person to person ---it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA is--- instead, it can tell where your mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother came from, i.e.
your ethnicity.
With enough samples it may even be able to tell whether you are a recent immigrant, a long term american, etc.
This means that, using this database as a source, police may one day collect mtDNA from a crime scene and know they are looking for a person from Eastern Europe that is 1st-3rd generation american.
That is, it can be used to narrow suspects, but can't be used to identify you directly.
So, in the end, the information (at least to me, as a molecular biologist) is relatively harmless and perhaps even good, in balance.
However, given the serious objections people would likely have if they had known their information would be used in this way, the oversight committee should have required additional consent to use and collect this information for each person's sample they collected (and insured the people who gave consent gave informed consent).
That would have avoided the mess entirely, and been more ethical.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325666</id>
	<title>REPUBLICAN CLONE ARMY</title>
	<author>lonesome phreak</author>
	<datestamp>1267457940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's totally obvious. It's Texas, from where the GOP will launch their army of clones from.  They already have insurgents working in Oklahoma...I've met them in battle.</p><p>Hopefully we still have at least 10-15 years at the current level the Texas Legislature is funding the project on. My insiders tell me Haliburton is using off-shore stem cell research facilities to close the time gap, however.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's totally obvious .
It 's Texas , from where the GOP will launch their army of clones from .
They already have insurgents working in Oklahoma...I 've met them in battle.Hopefully we still have at least 10-15 years at the current level the Texas Legislature is funding the project on .
My insiders tell me Haliburton is using off-shore stem cell research facilities to close the time gap , however .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's totally obvious.
It's Texas, from where the GOP will launch their army of clones from.
They already have insurgents working in Oklahoma...I've met them in battle.Hopefully we still have at least 10-15 years at the current level the Texas Legislature is funding the project on.
My insiders tell me Haliburton is using off-shore stem cell research facilities to close the time gap, however.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325594</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Korbeau</author>
	<datestamp>1267457400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No. It "belongs" to the being it was taken from. The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It does not matter who sequenced it first. It does not matter whether it has unique properties. It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.</p><p>
&nbsp; No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.</p></div><p>Now if you could just stop flushing parts of yourself down the toilet everyday and dropping hairs everywhere that would help your point<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>You see yourself as your own owner?  I'm wondering what Heidegger would have thought of that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
It " belongs " to the being it was taken from .
The being it was taken from has first " copyright " / " patent " / " trademark " to it ( add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary , here )       It does not matter who sequenced it first .
It does not matter whether it has unique properties .
It does not matter who it was taken from , whether they consented to it , or not .
  No corporation , government , nor any other entity , can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.Now if you could just stop flushing parts of yourself down the toilet everyday and dropping hairs everywhere that would help your point ...You see yourself as your own owner ?
I 'm wondering what Heidegger would have thought of that .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
It "belongs" to the being it was taken from.
The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)
      It does not matter who sequenced it first.
It does not matter whether it has unique properties.
It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.
  No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.Now if you could just stop flushing parts of yourself down the toilet everyday and dropping hairs everywhere that would help your point ...You see yourself as your own owner?
I'm wondering what Heidegger would have thought of that ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31340152</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>anyGould</author>
	<datestamp>1267548480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?  I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.</p></div><p>I'm guessing the plan was to continue collecting info for 20 or 30 years, and use the information to catch adults at that point.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case ?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.I 'm guessing the plan was to continue collecting info for 20 or 30 years , and use the information to catch adults at that point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.I'm guessing the plan was to continue collecting info for 20 or 30 years, and use the information to catch adults at that point.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324934</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1267451700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would they need to solve it now? They'll save it when child is born and have it handy years later.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would they need to solve it now ?
They 'll save it when child is born and have it handy years later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would they need to solve it now?
They'll save it when child is born and have it handy years later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325156</id>
	<title>800,000 per year?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My, Texas is getting a bit crowded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My , Texas is getting a bit crowded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My, Texas is getting a bit crowded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326092</id>
	<title>Re:What's the purpose of the secret DNA database?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "Armed Forces DNA ID Lab" is only interested in DNA to identify missing in action military casualties.  They are still digging up Korean/Vietnam era remains and trying to ID them.  Every military member must (now) give a DNA sample (blood spots) on enlistment so they can be ID'd later on if the worst happens.  And yes, after you leave the military you can get the samples back (but not before then).</p><p>So chances are pretty high that this mtDNA idea was based on trying to get 'hits' on DNA they've already got from remains, and see if they could get any closer to solutions.</p><p>I don't know about the legality of what happened, nor will/can I comment on the motives of other agencies, but this group's focus is actually very narrow and rather astonishingly singleminded, even though most of the casualties were 35+ years ago.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " Armed Forces DNA ID Lab " is only interested in DNA to identify missing in action military casualties .
They are still digging up Korean/Vietnam era remains and trying to ID them .
Every military member must ( now ) give a DNA sample ( blood spots ) on enlistment so they can be ID 'd later on if the worst happens .
And yes , after you leave the military you can get the samples back ( but not before then ) .So chances are pretty high that this mtDNA idea was based on trying to get 'hits ' on DNA they 've already got from remains , and see if they could get any closer to solutions.I do n't know about the legality of what happened , nor will/can I comment on the motives of other agencies , but this group 's focus is actually very narrow and rather astonishingly singleminded , even though most of the casualties were 35 + years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "Armed Forces DNA ID Lab" is only interested in DNA to identify missing in action military casualties.
They are still digging up Korean/Vietnam era remains and trying to ID them.
Every military member must (now) give a DNA sample (blood spots) on enlistment so they can be ID'd later on if the worst happens.
And yes, after you leave the military you can get the samples back (but not before then).So chances are pretty high that this mtDNA idea was based on trying to get 'hits' on DNA they've already got from remains, and see if they could get any closer to solutions.I don't know about the legality of what happened, nor will/can I comment on the motives of other agencies, but this group's focus is actually very narrow and rather astonishingly singleminded, even though most of the casualties were 35+ years ago.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325300</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>budgenator</author>
	<datestamp>1267454580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no reason for them to even want to trace the samples to individuals at this point, the DNA is being analyzed to design a database. They need to know how to slice and dice the DNA to provide a statistically reasonable method of identifying individuals, so they need to find how to amplify segments so that they identify individuals, not species or ethnicities. The ultimate goal is to go into a court and be able to say that there is only a 1 in 6 billion chance that this DNA belongs to anybody else than this one person . Even is the identify can be determined it'll take a court order to do it, if we get to the point that the courts are that far into the government's thrall, we might as well bend over, put ours heads between our legs and kiss our asses goodbye.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no reason for them to even want to trace the samples to individuals at this point , the DNA is being analyzed to design a database .
They need to know how to slice and dice the DNA to provide a statistically reasonable method of identifying individuals , so they need to find how to amplify segments so that they identify individuals , not species or ethnicities .
The ultimate goal is to go into a court and be able to say that there is only a 1 in 6 billion chance that this DNA belongs to anybody else than this one person .
Even is the identify can be determined it 'll take a court order to do it , if we get to the point that the courts are that far into the government 's thrall , we might as well bend over , put ours heads between our legs and kiss our asses goodbye .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no reason for them to even want to trace the samples to individuals at this point, the DNA is being analyzed to design a database.
They need to know how to slice and dice the DNA to provide a statistically reasonable method of identifying individuals, so they need to find how to amplify segments so that they identify individuals, not species or ethnicities.
The ultimate goal is to go into a court and be able to say that there is only a 1 in 6 billion chance that this DNA belongs to anybody else than this one person .
Even is the identify can be determined it'll take a court order to do it, if we get to the point that the courts are that far into the government's thrall, we might as well bend over, put ours heads between our legs and kiss our asses goodbye.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</id>
	<title>Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>FlightTest</author>
	<datestamp>1267451640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because the TFA certainly doesn't.</p><p>How, exactly, are <i>anonymized</i> blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases, or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?  That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.</p><p>I'm not defending what was done, but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation.  Possibly a good idea, but the implementation (doing it without consent) is clearly wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the TFA certainly does n't.How , exactly , are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases , or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample ?
That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized , which there 's no way to know for sure.I 'm not defending what was done , but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation .
Possibly a good idea , but the implementation ( doing it without consent ) is clearly wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the TFA certainly doesn't.How, exactly, are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases, or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?
That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.I'm not defending what was done, but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation.
Possibly a good idea, but the implementation (doing it without consent) is clearly wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31332366</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267555860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're taking the long view.  The crimes haven't even happened yet, but someday they will, and some of them will end up cold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're taking the long view .
The crimes have n't even happened yet , but someday they will , and some of them will end up cold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're taking the long view.
The crimes haven't even happened yet, but someday they will, and some of them will end up cold.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325296</id>
	<title>they need to determine who's a fag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so we can have them cut off at birth and not have to hear shit about how they have "rights" as they fuck everyone over with their shit eating ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so we can have them cut off at birth and not have to hear shit about how they have " rights " as they fuck everyone over with their shit eating ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so we can have them cut off at birth and not have to hear shit about how they have "rights" as they fuck everyone over with their shit eating ways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326072</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1267461420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>That's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis. If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it's a breach of contract.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Sounds like you're describing how you'd like the law to be. The law <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore\_v.\_Regents\_of\_the\_University\_of\_California" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">just doesn't happen to be that way</a> [wikipedia.org].
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis .
If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it 's a breach of contract .
Sounds like you 're describing how you 'd like the law to be .
The law just does n't happen to be that way [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because I gave them explicit consent to use said tissue sample to facilitate my diagnosis.
If they use it for any other purpose without my consent then it's a breach of contract.
Sounds like you're describing how you'd like the law to be.
The law just doesn't happen to be that way [wikipedia.org].

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</id>
	<title>My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>greg\_barton</author>
	<datestamp>1267454160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't care what they did with her blood.</p><p>Not.  One.  Bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't care what they did with her blood.Not .
One. Bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't care what they did with her blood.Not.
One.  Bit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325758</id>
	<title>Immutable DNA is therefore OUT - QED</title>
	<author>scurvyj</author>
	<datestamp>1267458540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well DNA is now obviously too much of a threat to personal security to be allowed to continue on in this way.

As all forensic ID is made from Junk DNA, and it has already been demonstrated that Junk DNA can be edited, I forsee that people will be popping pills soon to re-write themselves.   Then some government will try and lean on that and the human rights issues will float to the fore and it will be on for young and old.

I can see parents changing their child's DNA when they pass puberty, as a service to them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well DNA is now obviously too much of a threat to personal security to be allowed to continue on in this way .
As all forensic ID is made from Junk DNA , and it has already been demonstrated that Junk DNA can be edited , I forsee that people will be popping pills soon to re-write themselves .
Then some government will try and lean on that and the human rights issues will float to the fore and it will be on for young and old .
I can see parents changing their child 's DNA when they pass puberty , as a service to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well DNA is now obviously too much of a threat to personal security to be allowed to continue on in this way.
As all forensic ID is made from Junk DNA, and it has already been demonstrated that Junk DNA can be edited, I forsee that people will be popping pills soon to re-write themselves.
Then some government will try and lean on that and the human rights issues will float to the fore and it will be on for young and old.
I can see parents changing their child's DNA when they pass puberty, as a service to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327660</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>ShakaUVM</author>
	<datestamp>1267524900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;So, how "should" we feel about this?</p><p>Well, I for one trust that the government will only use their secret DNA database in an ethical and prudent fashion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; So , how " should " we feel about this ? Well , I for one trust that the government will only use their secret DNA database in an ethical and prudent fashion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;So, how "should" we feel about this?Well, I for one trust that the government will only use their secret DNA database in an ethical and prudent fashion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325520</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh? And how do you know that they have not replaced her with a clone programmed to report on your cookie preferences?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh ?
And how do you know that they have not replaced her with a clone programmed to report on your cookie preferences ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh?
And how do you know that they have not replaced her with a clone programmed to report on your cookie preferences?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325444</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>magus\_melchior</author>
	<datestamp>1267455780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You didn't mention that the Lacks cancer cells were unusual in this way: they don't die under normal conditions, so they never needed to be preserved by freezing. That's why the hospital et al. saw so much value in them-- the cells may hold clues in terms of delaying or stopping human aging, a modern "Fountain of Youth", as it were.</p><p>The issue described in TFA, as often is the case when parents are involved, is <b>disclosure</b>. Most parents won't have that much of a problem with the practice you've described-- but hackles are raised if this sort of thing involving their children is done <i>without their knowledge or consent</i>.</p><p>And as a matter of fact, the Lacks family, for the most part, either was unhappy with the consequences of being a part of the research (too much publicity) or couldn't understand what was going on. <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123232331" title="npr.org" rel="nofollow">Here</a> [npr.org] is a <i>Fresh Air</i> interview of a freelancer who wrote a book on Henrietta Lacks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You did n't mention that the Lacks cancer cells were unusual in this way : they do n't die under normal conditions , so they never needed to be preserved by freezing .
That 's why the hospital et al .
saw so much value in them-- the cells may hold clues in terms of delaying or stopping human aging , a modern " Fountain of Youth " , as it were.The issue described in TFA , as often is the case when parents are involved , is disclosure .
Most parents wo n't have that much of a problem with the practice you 've described-- but hackles are raised if this sort of thing involving their children is done without their knowledge or consent.And as a matter of fact , the Lacks family , for the most part , either was unhappy with the consequences of being a part of the research ( too much publicity ) or could n't understand what was going on .
Here [ npr.org ] is a Fresh Air interview of a freelancer who wrote a book on Henrietta Lacks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You didn't mention that the Lacks cancer cells were unusual in this way: they don't die under normal conditions, so they never needed to be preserved by freezing.
That's why the hospital et al.
saw so much value in them-- the cells may hold clues in terms of delaying or stopping human aging, a modern "Fountain of Youth", as it were.The issue described in TFA, as often is the case when parents are involved, is disclosure.
Most parents won't have that much of a problem with the practice you've described-- but hackles are raised if this sort of thing involving their children is done without their knowledge or consent.And as a matter of fact, the Lacks family, for the most part, either was unhappy with the consequences of being a part of the research (too much publicity) or couldn't understand what was going on.
Here [npr.org] is a Fresh Air interview of a freelancer who wrote a book on Henrietta Lacks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325104</id>
	<title>What's the purpose of the secret DNA database?</title>
	<author>Taco Cowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1267453140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>* To identify races?<br>* To profile racial difference?<br>* To track individuals (and/or families), crime involvement, education level, whatnots?<br>* To look for certain special DNA strains?</p><p><b>BIG BROTHER</b> knows no bound, does it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* To identify races ?
* To profile racial difference ?
* To track individuals ( and/or families ) , crime involvement , education level , whatnots ?
* To look for certain special DNA strains ? BIG BROTHER knows no bound , does it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>* To identify races?
* To profile racial difference?
* To track individuals (and/or families), crime involvement, education level, whatnots?
* To look for certain special DNA strains?BIG BROTHER knows no bound, does it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325480</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>magus\_melchior</author>
	<datestamp>1267456200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(IANAL; I've talked to lawyers and generally have an idea of how courts work (thanks NYCL), but this is still not legal advice)</p><p>Since the samples were anonymized, it will be difficult (though not <i>impossible</i>) to pin a 4th Amendment penalty to this-- the courts often care about "actual damages", where someone was demonstrably harmed by some actions, and anonymizing the samples was as much a CYA move as it was to "protect" the newborns sampled.</p><p>A possible line of attack is that such actions taken without any consultation with the parents means that neither the parents nor the newborns had any expectation that this sort of data collection was happening-- i.e., the hospitals and government acted in exceedingly bad faith. Any actual lawyers on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. can probably punch a few holes in that argument legally or procedurally.</p><p>IMO, if I were a plaintiff, I'd demand the heads of the responsible department and hospitals, but given the general willingness to flee responsibility at any cost, I'd settle for a very, very stiff fine (7+ figures) + attorney's fees.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( IANAL ; I 've talked to lawyers and generally have an idea of how courts work ( thanks NYCL ) , but this is still not legal advice ) Since the samples were anonymized , it will be difficult ( though not impossible ) to pin a 4th Amendment penalty to this-- the courts often care about " actual damages " , where someone was demonstrably harmed by some actions , and anonymizing the samples was as much a CYA move as it was to " protect " the newborns sampled.A possible line of attack is that such actions taken without any consultation with the parents means that neither the parents nor the newborns had any expectation that this sort of data collection was happening-- i.e. , the hospitals and government acted in exceedingly bad faith .
Any actual lawyers on / .
can probably punch a few holes in that argument legally or procedurally.IMO , if I were a plaintiff , I 'd demand the heads of the responsible department and hospitals , but given the general willingness to flee responsibility at any cost , I 'd settle for a very , very stiff fine ( 7 + figures ) + attorney 's fees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(IANAL; I've talked to lawyers and generally have an idea of how courts work (thanks NYCL), but this is still not legal advice)Since the samples were anonymized, it will be difficult (though not impossible) to pin a 4th Amendment penalty to this-- the courts often care about "actual damages", where someone was demonstrably harmed by some actions, and anonymizing the samples was as much a CYA move as it was to "protect" the newborns sampled.A possible line of attack is that such actions taken without any consultation with the parents means that neither the parents nor the newborns had any expectation that this sort of data collection was happening-- i.e., the hospitals and government acted in exceedingly bad faith.
Any actual lawyers on /.
can probably punch a few holes in that argument legally or procedurally.IMO, if I were a plaintiff, I'd demand the heads of the responsible department and hospitals, but given the general willingness to flee responsibility at any cost, I'd settle for a very, very stiff fine (7+ figures) + attorney's fees.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325262</id>
	<title>Blah....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I haven't killed anybody, I don't care.  Isn't it better that the government knows who you are anyway?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't killed anybody , I do n't care .
Is n't it better that the government knows who you are anyway ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't killed anybody, I don't care.
Isn't it better that the government knows who you are anyway?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31336720</id>
	<title>BUILDING the database, not the actual database</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267528800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Say you were tasked with creating the software and hardware for a DNA database... How are you supposed to develope it, test it, etc without some actual DNA? And let's be realistic, such a thing needs to be really properly tested, so you can't just say "use your own". You need lots of samples.  My point here is that the summary was written by a paranoiac.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Say you were tasked with creating the software and hardware for a DNA database... How are you supposed to develope it , test it , etc without some actual DNA ?
And let 's be realistic , such a thing needs to be really properly tested , so you ca n't just say " use your own " .
You need lots of samples .
My point here is that the summary was written by a paranoiac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Say you were tasked with creating the software and hardware for a DNA database... How are you supposed to develope it, test it, etc without some actual DNA?
And let's be realistic, such a thing needs to be really properly tested, so you can't just say "use your own".
You need lots of samples.
My point here is that the summary was written by a paranoiac.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325700</id>
	<title>Re:What's the purpose of the secret DNA database?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You list 4 legitimate research paths, and then yell about big brother?</p><p>Could you at least try to mentions something SCAAAARY before invoking the boogyman?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You list 4 legitimate research paths , and then yell about big brother ? Could you at least try to mentions something SCAAAARY before invoking the boogyman ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You list 4 legitimate research paths, and then yell about big brother?Could you at least try to mentions something SCAAAARY before invoking the boogyman?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325420</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree completely.  I think you should go to prison.  The punishment this yields should include large amounts of ass rape.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree completely .
I think you should go to prison .
The punishment this yields should include large amounts of ass rape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree completely.
I think you should go to prison.
The punishment this yields should include large amounts of ass rape.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325996</id>
	<title>Re:What's the purpose of the secret DNA database?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Hitler had this technology, the Jews would no longer exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Hitler had this technology , the Jews would no longer exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Hitler had this technology, the Jews would no longer exist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31340174</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>VirtualJWN</author>
	<datestamp>1267548600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As mtDNA is passed only by the mother, it would be possible to "back track" a subject based on the mtDNA from the "newborn's mothers" hereditary line if you will.  Barring mutations, this could be an "Elementary my Dear Watson" moment for forensics. except, the researchers were "kind enough" to erase the names......Did they erase the barcodes too?

While we are at it, has the RED CROSS participated in such a study from blood donations?  The thought of that would be of much more effect to individuals if their genetic data were shared with medical insurers, or other organizations (for example gene screening for employers??)

Sounds like the Genie is out of the bottle on this one.

Punishment??? We are talking about the government here.  Only wrist slapping is allowed by the union, or a paid day off.

Here in the mid-west, we have a nasty little critter called the Asian Beetle.  This was and is intentionally released to presumably kill Aphids in cash crops.

Problem was the Aphids were tougher than the Beetles and contrary to the "Scientists" the Beetles were able to survive the winter and breed.

Now we bow to our "Asian masters" in the late summer and have to contend with swarms of these "natural predator less" very aggressive and stinking pests, which swarm and basically disrupt any outdoor activity between September and November. While Penn. State released them, apparently they are not accountable because they (Penn State) said it wasn't possible for "their" beetles to escape.  They (Penn State) blame the outbreak on a nameless Asian freighter which docked in New Orleans.

Well, hand it to Penn State, not only did they "educate" Bin Laden, they "bomb the midwest with beetles.  In both cases, no repercussions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As mtDNA is passed only by the mother , it would be possible to " back track " a subject based on the mtDNA from the " newborn 's mothers " hereditary line if you will .
Barring mutations , this could be an " Elementary my Dear Watson " moment for forensics .
except , the researchers were " kind enough " to erase the names......Did they erase the barcodes too ?
While we are at it , has the RED CROSS participated in such a study from blood donations ?
The thought of that would be of much more effect to individuals if their genetic data were shared with medical insurers , or other organizations ( for example gene screening for employers ? ?
) Sounds like the Genie is out of the bottle on this one .
Punishment ? ? ? We are talking about the government here .
Only wrist slapping is allowed by the union , or a paid day off .
Here in the mid-west , we have a nasty little critter called the Asian Beetle .
This was and is intentionally released to presumably kill Aphids in cash crops .
Problem was the Aphids were tougher than the Beetles and contrary to the " Scientists " the Beetles were able to survive the winter and breed .
Now we bow to our " Asian masters " in the late summer and have to contend with swarms of these " natural predator less " very aggressive and stinking pests , which swarm and basically disrupt any outdoor activity between September and November .
While Penn .
State released them , apparently they are not accountable because they ( Penn State ) said it was n't possible for " their " beetles to escape .
They ( Penn State ) blame the outbreak on a nameless Asian freighter which docked in New Orleans .
Well , hand it to Penn State , not only did they " educate " Bin Laden , they " bomb the midwest with beetles .
In both cases , no repercussions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As mtDNA is passed only by the mother, it would be possible to "back track" a subject based on the mtDNA from the "newborn's mothers" hereditary line if you will.
Barring mutations, this could be an "Elementary my Dear Watson" moment for forensics.
except, the researchers were "kind enough" to erase the names......Did they erase the barcodes too?
While we are at it, has the RED CROSS participated in such a study from blood donations?
The thought of that would be of much more effect to individuals if their genetic data were shared with medical insurers, or other organizations (for example gene screening for employers??
)

Sounds like the Genie is out of the bottle on this one.
Punishment??? We are talking about the government here.
Only wrist slapping is allowed by the union, or a paid day off.
Here in the mid-west, we have a nasty little critter called the Asian Beetle.
This was and is intentionally released to presumably kill Aphids in cash crops.
Problem was the Aphids were tougher than the Beetles and contrary to the "Scientists" the Beetles were able to survive the winter and breed.
Now we bow to our "Asian masters" in the late summer and have to contend with swarms of these "natural predator less" very aggressive and stinking pests, which swarm and basically disrupt any outdoor activity between September and November.
While Penn.
State released them, apparently they are not accountable because they (Penn State) said it wasn't possible for "their" beetles to escape.
They (Penn State) blame the outbreak on a nameless Asian freighter which docked in New Orleans.
Well, hand it to Penn State, not only did they "educate" Bin Laden, they "bomb the midwest with beetles.
In both cases, no repercussions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330046</id>
	<title>Best Headline</title>
	<author>Chelloveck</author>
	<datestamp>1267546380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow. That's got to be one of the greatest super-villain headlines of all time. It has a secret conspiracy and borderline mad science, with just a hint of human sacrifice. If only it ended with "... Which I'll Use To Rule The World!" and it'd have everything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
That 's got to be one of the greatest super-villain headlines of all time .
It has a secret conspiracy and borderline mad science , with just a hint of human sacrifice .
If only it ended with " ... Which I 'll Use To Rule The World !
" and it 'd have everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
That's got to be one of the greatest super-villain headlines of all time.
It has a secret conspiracy and borderline mad science, with just a hint of human sacrifice.
If only it ended with "... Which I'll Use To Rule The World!
" and it'd have everything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329288</id>
	<title>Correllation</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1267542720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Odd looking back I wonder if there is causation as a sudden surge of gene sequencing and DNA patents coming out of that. Nothing like getting a hold of someone's DNA and patenting, copyrighting, shit lets even trademark the sequencing data.</p><p>"I'm sorry sir but we cannot do your lab work, your dna is currently patented and copyrighted by (INSERT TEXAS BASES PATENT TROLL COMPANY OF THE WEEK HERE) so we cannot run any actual tests."</p><p>or which is now apparently a real issue being discussed at the U0M:</p><p>"Well we'd like to use your DNA for research but if your DNA has already ben patented or the sequencing data copyrighted it could jepordize the research... We need to pay some lawyers to do the research to make sure your DNA sequence is not already in a private database..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Odd looking back I wonder if there is causation as a sudden surge of gene sequencing and DNA patents coming out of that .
Nothing like getting a hold of someone 's DNA and patenting , copyrighting , shit lets even trademark the sequencing data .
" I 'm sorry sir but we can not do your lab work , your dna is currently patented and copyrighted by ( INSERT TEXAS BASES PATENT TROLL COMPANY OF THE WEEK HERE ) so we can not run any actual tests .
" or which is now apparently a real issue being discussed at the U0M : " Well we 'd like to use your DNA for research but if your DNA has already ben patented or the sequencing data copyrighted it could jepordize the research... We need to pay some lawyers to do the research to make sure your DNA sequence is not already in a private database... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Odd looking back I wonder if there is causation as a sudden surge of gene sequencing and DNA patents coming out of that.
Nothing like getting a hold of someone's DNA and patenting, copyrighting, shit lets even trademark the sequencing data.
"I'm sorry sir but we cannot do your lab work, your dna is currently patented and copyrighted by (INSERT TEXAS BASES PATENT TROLL COMPANY OF THE WEEK HERE) so we cannot run any actual tests.
"or which is now apparently a real issue being discussed at the U0M:"Well we'd like to use your DNA for research but if your DNA has already ben patented or the sequencing data copyrighted it could jepordize the research... We need to pay some lawyers to do the research to make sure your DNA sequence is not already in a private database..."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325050</id>
	<title>pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>UnknowingFool</author>
	<datestamp>1267452660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article brings up the specter of privacy violations without really explanation that the combination of the anonymized and mitochondrial DNA makes identification difficult.  In fact, the article makes it appear that mtDNA is somehow more definitive than nuclear DNA.  Yes, it was a violation of rights to collect and store the samples.</p><p>I'm wondering how 800 "anonymized" samples of mitochondrial DNA going to help solve any cold cases.  First it's mitochondrial DNA which is not as distinctive as nuclear DNA.  For humans, it links maternal parentage not individual characteristics.  Second, it's "anonymized" meaning that using them in identification later is unlikely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article brings up the specter of privacy violations without really explanation that the combination of the anonymized and mitochondrial DNA makes identification difficult .
In fact , the article makes it appear that mtDNA is somehow more definitive than nuclear DNA .
Yes , it was a violation of rights to collect and store the samples.I 'm wondering how 800 " anonymized " samples of mitochondrial DNA going to help solve any cold cases .
First it 's mitochondrial DNA which is not as distinctive as nuclear DNA .
For humans , it links maternal parentage not individual characteristics .
Second , it 's " anonymized " meaning that using them in identification later is unlikely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article brings up the specter of privacy violations without really explanation that the combination of the anonymized and mitochondrial DNA makes identification difficult.
In fact, the article makes it appear that mtDNA is somehow more definitive than nuclear DNA.
Yes, it was a violation of rights to collect and store the samples.I'm wondering how 800 "anonymized" samples of mitochondrial DNA going to help solve any cold cases.
First it's mitochondrial DNA which is not as distinctive as nuclear DNA.
For humans, it links maternal parentage not individual characteristics.
Second, it's "anonymized" meaning that using them in identification later is unlikely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325178</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1267453680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is actually not that unusual.<br>...<br>So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights.</p></div><p> <i>In the 1950s.</i><br>Using a 60 year old case as the basis for your argument is intellectually dishonest.<br>Times have changed since then. <i>Now</i> there are certainly privacy, property, and ethical issues.</p><p>With your logic, I could use the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee\_syphilis\_experiment" title="wikipedia.org">Tuskegee experiments</a> [wikipedia.org] as justification for clinical testing on human subjects without their informed consent. Or I could use the Tuskegee experiments as an example of unethical behavior becoming public and Congress stepping in to pass laws regulating experimentation on humans.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually not that unusual....So there was no privacy issue , and no issue of property rights .
In the 1950s.Using a 60 year old case as the basis for your argument is intellectually dishonest.Times have changed since then .
Now there are certainly privacy , property , and ethical issues.With your logic , I could use the Tuskegee experiments [ wikipedia.org ] as justification for clinical testing on human subjects without their informed consent .
Or I could use the Tuskegee experiments as an example of unethical behavior becoming public and Congress stepping in to pass laws regulating experimentation on humans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually not that unusual....So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights.
In the 1950s.Using a 60 year old case as the basis for your argument is intellectually dishonest.Times have changed since then.
Now there are certainly privacy, property, and ethical issues.With your logic, I could use the Tuskegee experiments [wikipedia.org] as justification for clinical testing on human subjects without their informed consent.
Or I could use the Tuskegee experiments as an example of unethical behavior becoming public and Congress stepping in to pass laws regulating experimentation on humans.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326344</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got two words for you, pardner.</p><p><i>Soylent Green.</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got two words for you , pardner.Soylent Green .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got two words for you, pardner.Soylent Green.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326904</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>besalope</author>
	<datestamp>1267470060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?  I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.</p></div><p>Mitochondrial DNA is different from the DNA everyone else knows about.  When the Egg is fertilized, the Mitochondria from the mother is contained inside the egg.  Thus, identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families.</p><p>Using Mitochondrial DNA, you can trace back and find some relatives (not all, but a fair amount).  The mtDNA database can scan mtDNA samples from crime scenes and compare the results against the newborn mtDNA to see if any of their family members had committed such crime, therefore narrowing the scope of the investigator's search be a large margin.</p><p>This is powerful tech, that is sadly going to be used in the wrong way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case ?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.Mitochondrial DNA is different from the DNA everyone else knows about .
When the Egg is fertilized , the Mitochondria from the mother is contained inside the egg .
Thus , identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families.Using Mitochondrial DNA , you can trace back and find some relatives ( not all , but a fair amount ) .
The mtDNA database can scan mtDNA samples from crime scenes and compare the results against the newborn mtDNA to see if any of their family members had committed such crime , therefore narrowing the scope of the investigator 's search be a large margin.This is powerful tech , that is sadly going to be used in the wrong way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.Mitochondrial DNA is different from the DNA everyone else knows about.
When the Egg is fertilized, the Mitochondria from the mother is contained inside the egg.
Thus, identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families.Using Mitochondrial DNA, you can trace back and find some relatives (not all, but a fair amount).
The mtDNA database can scan mtDNA samples from crime scenes and compare the results against the newborn mtDNA to see if any of their family members had committed such crime, therefore narrowing the scope of the investigator's search be a large margin.This is powerful tech, that is sadly going to be used in the wrong way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325118</id>
	<title>Wasn't this and X-File?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure Agent Mulder found these in an underground vault about ten years ago...</p><p>Figures it would take the liberal media this long to cover it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure Agent Mulder found these in an underground vault about ten years ago...Figures it would take the liberal media this long to cover it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure Agent Mulder found these in an underground vault about ten years ago...Figures it would take the liberal media this long to cover it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326448</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Tiger Smile</author>
	<datestamp>1267465380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If she dies, having been denied live saving care based on the data they have on her, would that make you care?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If she dies , having been denied live saving care based on the data they have on her , would that make you care ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If she dies, having been denied live saving care based on the data they have on her, would that make you care?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325808</id>
	<title>What could possibly go wrong?</title>
	<author>joe the fish</author>
	<datestamp>1267458840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The forward march of progress!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The forward march of progress !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The forward march of progress!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31333518</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>tresho</author>
	<datestamp>1267560000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><em>Thus, identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families.</em>  There have already been found exceptions to this statement.  See this:  <a href="http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/8/576" title="nejm.org" rel="nofollow">http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/8/576</a> [nejm.org]  A man with a severe mitochondrial disorder was found to have inherited his father's (not his mother's) mitochrondrial DNA, along with a new mutation unique to the patient which caused his disorder.  From that article: "paternal mtDNA inheritance may go unrecognized<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... because mitochondrial haplotypes are rarely investigated in diagnostic analyses."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thus , identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families .
There have already been found exceptions to this statement .
See this : http : //content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/8/576 [ nejm.org ] A man with a severe mitochondrial disorder was found to have inherited his father 's ( not his mother 's ) mitochrondrial DNA , along with a new mutation unique to the patient which caused his disorder .
From that article : " paternal mtDNA inheritance may go unrecognized ... because mitochondrial haplotypes are rarely investigated in diagnostic analyses .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thus, identical mitochondrial DNA will exist through the maternal hierarchy of families.
There have already been found exceptions to this statement.
See this:  http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/8/576 [nejm.org]  A man with a severe mitochondrial disorder was found to have inherited his father's (not his mother's) mitochrondrial DNA, along with a new mutation unique to the patient which caused his disorder.
From that article: "paternal mtDNA inheritance may go unrecognized ... because mitochondrial haplotypes are rarely investigated in diagnostic analyses.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325130</id>
	<title>Its called familial DNA matching.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you dont always need the DNA of the subject your trying to find. If you find someone who has similar DNA (ie a blood relative) then you have reduced your search down to a handful of people.</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA\_profiling#Familial\_searching</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you dont always need the DNA of the subject your trying to find .
If you find someone who has similar DNA ( ie a blood relative ) then you have reduced your search down to a handful of people.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA \ _profiling # Familial \ _searching</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you dont always need the DNA of the subject your trying to find.
If you find someone who has similar DNA (ie a blood relative) then you have reduced your search down to a handful of people.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA\_profiling#Familial\_searching</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327014</id>
	<title>kinda anonimous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267471320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>now I understand the shadowy look in the faces of all that people around the day my kid was born, why they left my wife bleed a few more minutes while collecting those samples, fortunately she is OK, I'm not sure but I felt I was being stolen something without knowing what it was, and the relief for having my kid delivered healthy and ok just made this suspicion just fade away in the prospect of the current happiness. but now I know what happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>now I understand the shadowy look in the faces of all that people around the day my kid was born , why they left my wife bleed a few more minutes while collecting those samples , fortunately she is OK , I 'm not sure but I felt I was being stolen something without knowing what it was , and the relief for having my kid delivered healthy and ok just made this suspicion just fade away in the prospect of the current happiness .
but now I know what happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>now I understand the shadowy look in the faces of all that people around the day my kid was born, why they left my wife bleed a few more minutes while collecting those samples, fortunately she is OK, I'm not sure but I felt I was being stolen something without knowing what it was, and the relief for having my kid delivered healthy and ok just made this suspicion just fade away in the prospect of the current happiness.
but now I know what happened.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327560</id>
	<title>PKU Registry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267523460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have had this for almost 30+ years in Sweden, called the PKU Registry. They take samples from every newborn to look for deceases, etc. After the initial test the databases is only allowed for scientific research and in case of disasters to identify victims.</p><p>You can however at any time ask for your sample to be destroyed if you have any privacy concerns.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have had this for almost 30 + years in Sweden , called the PKU Registry .
They take samples from every newborn to look for deceases , etc .
After the initial test the databases is only allowed for scientific research and in case of disasters to identify victims.You can however at any time ask for your sample to be destroyed if you have any privacy concerns .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have had this for almost 30+ years in Sweden, called the PKU Registry.
They take samples from every newborn to look for deceases, etc.
After the initial test the databases is only allowed for scientific research and in case of disasters to identify victims.You can however at any time ask for your sample to be destroyed if you have any privacy concerns.
   </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31328656</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Charliemopps</author>
	<datestamp>1267538520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My guess would be one of the first experiments the military would want to run would be to un-anonymize the samples.

Why is it that in this country, a business can own a DNA sequence by doing nothing more than "Discovering it", but a the person that is born of that sequence has no inherent birthright to it.

Seriously, if there was ever something that should be covered by an open source license, it's DNA.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess would be one of the first experiments the military would want to run would be to un-anonymize the samples .
Why is it that in this country , a business can own a DNA sequence by doing nothing more than " Discovering it " , but a the person that is born of that sequence has no inherent birthright to it .
Seriously , if there was ever something that should be covered by an open source license , it 's DNA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess would be one of the first experiments the military would want to run would be to un-anonymize the samples.
Why is it that in this country, a business can own a DNA sequence by doing nothing more than "Discovering it", but a the person that is born of that sequence has no inherent birthright to it.
Seriously, if there was ever something that should be covered by an open source license, it's DNA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325476</id>
	<title>Why are YOU worried?</title>
	<author>HumanEmulator</author>
	<datestamp>1267456140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If your DNA has nothing to hide, you should have nothing to fear. [/sarcasm]</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your DNA has nothing to hide , you should have nothing to fear .
[ /sarcasm ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your DNA has nothing to hide, you should have nothing to fear.
[/sarcasm]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325258</id>
	<title>\you Fail it..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">reciprocating posts on Us3neDt are</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>reciprocating posts on Us3neDt are [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>reciprocating posts on Us3neDt are [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325452</id>
	<title>Screening for Powers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Maybe TPTB are trying to screen for those with special abilities (we know who we are) and try to weed them out or mark them for future use when they are adults to be recruited.</p><p>Praise YHWH, we know how wins in the end and it's not evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics [ wikipedia.org ] Maybe TPTB are trying to screen for those with special abilities ( we know who we are ) and try to weed them out or mark them for future use when they are adults to be recruited.Praise YHWH , we know how wins in the end and it 's not evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics [wikipedia.org]Maybe TPTB are trying to screen for those with special abilities (we know who we are) and try to weed them out or mark them for future use when they are adults to be recruited.Praise YHWH, we know how wins in the end and it's not evil.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31331782</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>BJ\_Covert\_Action</author>
	<datestamp>1267553820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".</p></div><p>
Fuck it. If that's the case you might as well just steal the damn car and go out with a bang.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Oh , sorry , your Genetic Rating ( tm ) says you probably wo n't live long enough to pay us back , ca n't help you with that new car " .
Fuck it .
If that 's the case you might as well just steal the damn car and go out with a bang .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".
Fuck it.
If that's the case you might as well just steal the damn car and go out with a bang.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326024</id>
	<title>DNA cannot be anonymous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's time that we as a society faced the fact that there is no such thing as an anonymous DNA sample. Your DNA sequence is a unique identifier; period. There is no way to guarantee that your DNA can never be traced back to you; in fact, if anything, the guarantee should be that, given enough time, it can be traced back to you.</p><p>There is also no way to prevent someone from surreptitiously getting access to your DNA. You are constantly shedding skin and hair. You're not going to be able to stop leaving a trail of DNA behind you any more than you could keep from leaving footprints in the mud.</p><p>The cost of sequencing DNA has been decreasing 9-fold every 18 months. Currently, you can sequence an entire human genome for less than $10,000. Within the next year, it will be possible to sequence a human genome for $1000. 5 years after that, it will cost $1. At that point, anyone who wants to will be able to amass an enormous database of sequences.</p><p>We should take it as a given that in a reasonably short period of time, our DNA sequence will never be private or anonymous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's time that we as a society faced the fact that there is no such thing as an anonymous DNA sample .
Your DNA sequence is a unique identifier ; period .
There is no way to guarantee that your DNA can never be traced back to you ; in fact , if anything , the guarantee should be that , given enough time , it can be traced back to you.There is also no way to prevent someone from surreptitiously getting access to your DNA .
You are constantly shedding skin and hair .
You 're not going to be able to stop leaving a trail of DNA behind you any more than you could keep from leaving footprints in the mud.The cost of sequencing DNA has been decreasing 9-fold every 18 months .
Currently , you can sequence an entire human genome for less than $ 10,000 .
Within the next year , it will be possible to sequence a human genome for $ 1000 .
5 years after that , it will cost $ 1 .
At that point , anyone who wants to will be able to amass an enormous database of sequences.We should take it as a given that in a reasonably short period of time , our DNA sequence will never be private or anonymous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's time that we as a society faced the fact that there is no such thing as an anonymous DNA sample.
Your DNA sequence is a unique identifier; period.
There is no way to guarantee that your DNA can never be traced back to you; in fact, if anything, the guarantee should be that, given enough time, it can be traced back to you.There is also no way to prevent someone from surreptitiously getting access to your DNA.
You are constantly shedding skin and hair.
You're not going to be able to stop leaving a trail of DNA behind you any more than you could keep from leaving footprints in the mud.The cost of sequencing DNA has been decreasing 9-fold every 18 months.
Currently, you can sequence an entire human genome for less than $10,000.
Within the next year, it will be possible to sequence a human genome for $1000.
5 years after that, it will cost $1.
At that point, anyone who wants to will be able to amass an enormous database of sequences.We should take it as a given that in a reasonably short period of time, our DNA sequence will never be private or anonymous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325014</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267452300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aside from property rights, there's also an implied right to medical confidentiality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Aside from property rights , there 's also an implied right to medical confidentiality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aside from property rights, there's also an implied right to medical confidentiality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325248</id>
	<title>Madness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So is Icke right, are there lizards or not?</p><p>This story smells like lizards all over it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So is Icke right , are there lizards or not ? This story smells like lizards all over it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So is Icke right, are there lizards or not?This story smells like lizards all over it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325564</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>demonlapin</author>
	<datestamp>1267457220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The lack of consent is troubling.  However, one of the early problems with DNA was the statistical validity - whatever technique you use, you have to have some idea of the variability that's present in the population before you can draw a conclusion about the likelihood of a match.  It might very well have been useful to have 800 samples of mtDNA from a random selection of people.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The lack of consent is troubling .
However , one of the early problems with DNA was the statistical validity - whatever technique you use , you have to have some idea of the variability that 's present in the population before you can draw a conclusion about the likelihood of a match .
It might very well have been useful to have 800 samples of mtDNA from a random selection of people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The lack of consent is troubling.
However, one of the early problems with DNA was the statistical validity - whatever technique you use, you have to have some idea of the variability that's present in the population before you can draw a conclusion about the likelihood of a match.
It might very well have been useful to have 800 samples of mtDNA from a random selection of people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325694</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>bertoelcon</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.</p></div><p>What if you take a shit and someone uses it to study diet habits in a certain area? Would you be ok if the waste treatment facility just signed it over or would you want the researchers to contact every residence/business/etc on the sewage line and have them consent to it? Should they contact every person who could have used used the toilets that are connected to the study?</p><p>Tl;dr You can't have explicit control of everything about you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No corporation , government , nor any other entity , can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.What if you take a shit and someone uses it to study diet habits in a certain area ?
Would you be ok if the waste treatment facility just signed it over or would you want the researchers to contact every residence/business/etc on the sewage line and have them consent to it ?
Should they contact every person who could have used used the toilets that are connected to the study ? Tl ; dr You ca n't have explicit control of everything about you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.What if you take a shit and someone uses it to study diet habits in a certain area?
Would you be ok if the waste treatment facility just signed it over or would you want the researchers to contact every residence/business/etc on the sewage line and have them consent to it?
Should they contact every person who could have used used the toilets that are connected to the study?Tl;dr You can't have explicit control of everything about you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325184</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>mveloso</author>
	<datestamp>1267453800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it's not as straight-forward as you think. There are a few people who have successfully asserted rights to their blood chemistry, etc. The NYT did an article on it a while back, which I can't find.</p><p>The medical profession doesn't like this, because it complicates their finances. Your line is what they tell the public, because it benefits the medical community.</p><p>Your blood chemistry, etc is your property, if you want it to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's not as straight-forward as you think .
There are a few people who have successfully asserted rights to their blood chemistry , etc .
The NYT did an article on it a while back , which I ca n't find.The medical profession does n't like this , because it complicates their finances .
Your line is what they tell the public , because it benefits the medical community.Your blood chemistry , etc is your property , if you want it to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's not as straight-forward as you think.
There are a few people who have successfully asserted rights to their blood chemistry, etc.
The NYT did an article on it a while back, which I can't find.The medical profession doesn't like this, because it complicates their finances.
Your line is what they tell the public, because it benefits the medical community.Your blood chemistry, etc is your property, if you want it to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329848</id>
	<title>That reminds me</title>
	<author>NotSoHeavyD3</author>
	<datestamp>1267545300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was going to write something about welcoming our new infantile overlords but then I remembered about the US Congress.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to write something about welcoming our new infantile overlords but then I remembered about the US Congress .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to write something about welcoming our new infantile overlords but then I remembered about the US Congress.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325670</id>
	<title>I guarantee you</title>
	<author>BitHive</author>
	<datestamp>1267457940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the baby had been born with a gun, this wouldn't have happened.  Those permissive parents were asking for it by giving birth in an elitist hospital.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the baby had been born with a gun , this would n't have happened .
Those permissive parents were asking for it by giving birth in an elitist hospital .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the baby had been born with a gun, this wouldn't have happened.
Those permissive parents were asking for it by giving birth in an elitist hospital.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327410</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267521180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, in my opinion, either a court must decide to destroy all samples, or the public must interpret a couple of amendments, and burn the storage place down to the ground.</p><p>Unfortunately the first group is bought by terrorists (parts of the government). And the second group is a herd of cattle caught in their own consumption.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , in my opinion , either a court must decide to destroy all samples , or the public must interpret a couple of amendments , and burn the storage place down to the ground.Unfortunately the first group is bought by terrorists ( parts of the government ) .
And the second group is a herd of cattle caught in their own consumption .
: /</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, in my opinion, either a court must decide to destroy all samples, or the public must interpret a couple of amendments, and burn the storage place down to the ground.Unfortunately the first group is bought by terrorists (parts of the government).
And the second group is a herd of cattle caught in their own consumption.
:/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325116</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Michael Woodhams</author>
	<datestamp>1267453260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm reading between the lines here, but this is an educated guess.</p><p>They want a large random sample of mitochondrial DNA, possibly with racial information attached to each sample. Then when they get DNA from a crime scene, they'll be able to answer questions such as "How common is this mitochondrial genotype?" and "What race was the person who left this DNA, and how certain can we be of the answer?"</p><p>Mitochondrial DNA is much easier to obtain, especially from degraded samples, than nuclear DNA, but it is not nearly so useful in identifying individuals. It looks to me like they're trying to research how much less useful it is.</p><p>While they deserve to be in big trouble over this and heads should roll, I don't think it is anything which would have been objectionable had they obtained permission first. It isn't as if it is "This is little baby Anne Onemus Coward's DNA, 23 years from now when she secretly puts up posters criticizing the President are put up we'll be able to identify her from DNA residues on them and know whose door to break down at 2 am."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm reading between the lines here , but this is an educated guess.They want a large random sample of mitochondrial DNA , possibly with racial information attached to each sample .
Then when they get DNA from a crime scene , they 'll be able to answer questions such as " How common is this mitochondrial genotype ?
" and " What race was the person who left this DNA , and how certain can we be of the answer ?
" Mitochondrial DNA is much easier to obtain , especially from degraded samples , than nuclear DNA , but it is not nearly so useful in identifying individuals .
It looks to me like they 're trying to research how much less useful it is.While they deserve to be in big trouble over this and heads should roll , I do n't think it is anything which would have been objectionable had they obtained permission first .
It is n't as if it is " This is little baby Anne Onemus Coward 's DNA , 23 years from now when she secretly puts up posters criticizing the President are put up we 'll be able to identify her from DNA residues on them and know whose door to break down at 2 am .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm reading between the lines here, but this is an educated guess.They want a large random sample of mitochondrial DNA, possibly with racial information attached to each sample.
Then when they get DNA from a crime scene, they'll be able to answer questions such as "How common is this mitochondrial genotype?
" and "What race was the person who left this DNA, and how certain can we be of the answer?
"Mitochondrial DNA is much easier to obtain, especially from degraded samples, than nuclear DNA, but it is not nearly so useful in identifying individuals.
It looks to me like they're trying to research how much less useful it is.While they deserve to be in big trouble over this and heads should roll, I don't think it is anything which would have been objectionable had they obtained permission first.
It isn't as if it is "This is little baby Anne Onemus Coward's DNA, 23 years from now when she secretly puts up posters criticizing the President are put up we'll be able to identify her from DNA residues on them and know whose door to break down at 2 am.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>pla</author>
	<datestamp>1267452840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>How, exactly, are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases,
or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?</i> <br>
<br>
TFA actually refers to <b>two separate</b> programs.<br>
<br>
The first, and more chilling of the two, Texas hospitals have sent <b>all</b> newborn blood samples for
entry into a DNA database since 2003.  The second part, which came to light only because of the suit by parents over the first point,
involves 800 anonymous samples for an mtDNA database.  <i>That</i> part sounds reasonably innocuous
(if still lacking in prior consent).<br>
<br>
<br>
So, how "should" we feel about this?  We should feel pretty damned pissed, and each and every one of us
should flood our states, towns, and local hospitals with FOIA requests about possible variants of similar
programs in our own areas.  We <i>should</i> also (but of course won't) riot in the streets demanding the immediate destruction
of this database and all samples taken, as well as a goddamned constitutional amendment explicitly granting
us "genetic privacy" rights from both government <b>and</b> private (aka commercial) entities.<br>
<br>
Instead, this will just fade from view without anyone really noticing or caring, and will expand until it contains each
and every human in the country (and eventually, on the planet).  And we'll <i>still</i> fail
to stop illegal immigration or terrorist attacks, but you can bet your last penny it'll affect your ability
to get loans and various types of insurance.<br>
<br>
"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".</htmltext>
<tokenext>How , exactly , are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases , or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample ?
TFA actually refers to two separate programs .
The first , and more chilling of the two , Texas hospitals have sent all newborn blood samples for entry into a DNA database since 2003 .
The second part , which came to light only because of the suit by parents over the first point , involves 800 anonymous samples for an mtDNA database .
That part sounds reasonably innocuous ( if still lacking in prior consent ) .
So , how " should " we feel about this ?
We should feel pretty damned pissed , and each and every one of us should flood our states , towns , and local hospitals with FOIA requests about possible variants of similar programs in our own areas .
We should also ( but of course wo n't ) riot in the streets demanding the immediate destruction of this database and all samples taken , as well as a goddamned constitutional amendment explicitly granting us " genetic privacy " rights from both government and private ( aka commercial ) entities .
Instead , this will just fade from view without anyone really noticing or caring , and will expand until it contains each and every human in the country ( and eventually , on the planet ) .
And we 'll still fail to stop illegal immigration or terrorist attacks , but you can bet your last penny it 'll affect your ability to get loans and various types of insurance .
" Oh , sorry , your Genetic Rating ( tm ) says you probably wo n't live long enough to pay us back , ca n't help you with that new car " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How, exactly, are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases,
or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?
TFA actually refers to two separate programs.
The first, and more chilling of the two, Texas hospitals have sent all newborn blood samples for
entry into a DNA database since 2003.
The second part, which came to light only because of the suit by parents over the first point,
involves 800 anonymous samples for an mtDNA database.
That part sounds reasonably innocuous
(if still lacking in prior consent).
So, how "should" we feel about this?
We should feel pretty damned pissed, and each and every one of us
should flood our states, towns, and local hospitals with FOIA requests about possible variants of similar
programs in our own areas.
We should also (but of course won't) riot in the streets demanding the immediate destruction
of this database and all samples taken, as well as a goddamned constitutional amendment explicitly granting
us "genetic privacy" rights from both government and private (aka commercial) entities.
Instead, this will just fade from view without anyone really noticing or caring, and will expand until it contains each
and every human in the country (and eventually, on the planet).
And we'll still fail
to stop illegal immigration or terrorist attacks, but you can bet your last penny it'll affect your ability
to get loans and various types of insurance.
"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330546</id>
	<title>Midwifes and home birth</title>
	<author>Conzar</author>
	<datestamp>1267548540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is just another reason to have your baby at home with a midwife.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just another reason to have your baby at home with a midwife .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just another reason to have your baby at home with a midwife.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325292</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>dazlari</author>
	<datestamp>1267454520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can't you see, "Cold Case" is being used as a euphemism for Vampire!! They keep them under the hospitals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't you see , " Cold Case " is being used as a euphemism for Vampire ! !
They keep them under the hospitals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't you see, "Cold Case" is being used as a euphemism for Vampire!!
They keep them under the hospitals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329178</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267542000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More importantly, a law has already been broken and the newborn is the victim. HIPPA forbids sharing these data. Someone should go to prison for this egregious assault on the civil rights of Americans.</p><p>Don't give me that "civil liberties" crap; they're not just liberties, they're RIGHTS. And Texas is violating them. Texas, hypocritically and ironically claiming to be the state most individualistic. What a crock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More importantly , a law has already been broken and the newborn is the victim .
HIPPA forbids sharing these data .
Someone should go to prison for this egregious assault on the civil rights of Americans.Do n't give me that " civil liberties " crap ; they 're not just liberties , they 're RIGHTS .
And Texas is violating them .
Texas , hypocritically and ironically claiming to be the state most individualistic .
What a crock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More importantly, a law has already been broken and the newborn is the victim.
HIPPA forbids sharing these data.
Someone should go to prison for this egregious assault on the civil rights of Americans.Don't give me that "civil liberties" crap; they're not just liberties, they're RIGHTS.
And Texas is violating them.
Texas, hypocritically and ironically claiming to be the state most individualistic.
What a crock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327302</id>
	<title>Begs the question</title>
	<author>shivamib</author>
	<datestamp>1267562880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Which begs the question...<br><br>&lt;b&gt;How is babby formed?&lt;/b&gt;</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which begs the question...How is babby formed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which begs the question...How is babby formed?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324882</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267451460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>mtDNA can be used to identify maternal lineage.  So the baby's mtDNA, if maternally related to the criminal, can be used to find the right family at least.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>mtDNA can be used to identify maternal lineage .
So the baby 's mtDNA , if maternally related to the criminal , can be used to find the right family at least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mtDNA can be used to identify maternal lineage.
So the baby's mtDNA, if maternally related to the criminal, can be used to find the right family at least.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330244</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1267547280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't you know you're supposed to be outraged that this genetic "property" of hers was somehow "stolen"?
<p>
Actually, I see a parallel here.  I wonder how many of the people upset by this are the same ones who say that breaking copyright to download music isn't stealing, because nothing is actually taken...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you know you 're supposed to be outraged that this genetic " property " of hers was somehow " stolen " ?
Actually , I see a parallel here .
I wonder how many of the people upset by this are the same ones who say that breaking copyright to download music is n't stealing , because nothing is actually taken.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you know you're supposed to be outraged that this genetic "property" of hers was somehow "stolen"?
Actually, I see a parallel here.
I wonder how many of the people upset by this are the same ones who say that breaking copyright to download music isn't stealing, because nothing is actually taken...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325058</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>rm999</author>
	<datestamp>1267452780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A headline about hospital workers stealing the blood of babies is much scarier than "database of fingerprints secretly kept by Texas A&amp;M researchers", even if the privacy implications are far more benign.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A headline about hospital workers stealing the blood of babies is much scarier than " database of fingerprints secretly kept by Texas A&amp;M researchers " , even if the privacy implications are far more benign .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A headline about hospital workers stealing the blood of babies is much scarier than "database of fingerprints secretly kept by Texas A&amp;M researchers", even if the privacy implications are far more benign.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31328582</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1267537980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Assuming they are irretrievably anonymized is the rub, but there is also the question of what demographic data is linked to the numbered samples.  Various entities might still find such a database useful.  23andMe.com already offers genealogical search trees among their population.  Norwegian-American paternal, Old New England (strong Maine concentration) maternal here and even with matches no closer than 4th cousin, my matches among their rather small population are invariably either Scandinavian or have a New England (strong Maine concentration) background.  Fuzzy, but information nonetheless.  The larger and more detailed the database, the more it can shed light on a sample collected at a crime scene.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming they are irretrievably anonymized is the rub , but there is also the question of what demographic data is linked to the numbered samples .
Various entities might still find such a database useful .
23andMe.com already offers genealogical search trees among their population .
Norwegian-American paternal , Old New England ( strong Maine concentration ) maternal here and even with matches no closer than 4th cousin , my matches among their rather small population are invariably either Scandinavian or have a New England ( strong Maine concentration ) background .
Fuzzy , but information nonetheless .
The larger and more detailed the database , the more it can shed light on a sample collected at a crime scene .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming they are irretrievably anonymized is the rub, but there is also the question of what demographic data is linked to the numbered samples.
Various entities might still find such a database useful.
23andMe.com already offers genealogical search trees among their population.
Norwegian-American paternal, Old New England (strong Maine concentration) maternal here and even with matches no closer than 4th cousin, my matches among their rather small population are invariably either Scandinavian or have a New England (strong Maine concentration) background.
Fuzzy, but information nonetheless.
The larger and more detailed the database, the more it can shed light on a sample collected at a crime scene.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31328628</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>wintercolby</author>
	<datestamp>1267538340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Alright, I guess now is the time to get my DNA sequenced and buy the copyright from the sequencer, next I'll register it as a trademark, and file for a US patent.  My only worry is that the USPO will site my mom and dad as prior art.  I'll be alright in any event, once it's digitized as then it will be protected by the DMCA!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Alright , I guess now is the time to get my DNA sequenced and buy the copyright from the sequencer , next I 'll register it as a trademark , and file for a US patent .
My only worry is that the USPO will site my mom and dad as prior art .
I 'll be alright in any event , once it 's digitized as then it will be protected by the DMCA !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alright, I guess now is the time to get my DNA sequenced and buy the copyright from the sequencer, next I'll register it as a trademark, and file for a US patent.
My only worry is that the USPO will site my mom and dad as prior art.
I'll be alright in any event, once it's digitized as then it will be protected by the DMCA!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326328</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This would me the issue. Let's see if parts of your body fall into "person, houses, papers, and effects"? But then again I'm not a member of the highest court in the land, where they judge slavery is okay, and any celebrated options.</p><p>Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.</p><p>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This would me the issue .
Let 's see if parts of your body fall into " person , houses , papers , and effects " ?
But then again I 'm not a member of the highest court in the land , where they judge slavery is okay , and any celebrated options.Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure .
Ratified 12/15/1791.The right of the people to be secure in their persons , houses , papers , and effects , against unreasonable searches and seizures , shall not be violated , and no Warrants shall issue , but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation , and particularly describing the place to be searched , and the persons or things to be seized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This would me the issue.
Let's see if parts of your body fall into "person, houses, papers, and effects"?
But then again I'm not a member of the highest court in the land, where they judge slavery is okay, and any celebrated options.Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure.
Ratified 12/15/1791.The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325002</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1267452180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.</p></div><p>Bingo.  Even if they THINK they anonymized the samples, it doesn't mean they did a particularly good job of it.<br>The imdb+netflix fiasco should be proof to anyone that privacy lives in a pandora's box - once you let even a piece of it out, all you are left with is hope that it won't get exploited.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized , which there 's no way to know for sure.Bingo .
Even if they THINK they anonymized the samples , it does n't mean they did a particularly good job of it.The imdb + netflix fiasco should be proof to anyone that privacy lives in a pandora 's box - once you let even a piece of it out , all you are left with is hope that it wo n't get exploited .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.Bingo.
Even if they THINK they anonymized the samples, it doesn't mean they did a particularly good job of it.The imdb+netflix fiasco should be proof to anyone that privacy lives in a pandora's box - once you let even a piece of it out, all you are left with is hope that it won't get exploited.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31346868</id>
	<title>US also got my fingerprints</title>
	<author>Fastfwd</author>
	<datestamp>1267637640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm Canadian and was traveling from Canada to Costa-Rica with a stop at a US airport without an international zone. I had to do the whole US customs thing and they took both my picture and fingerprints. Which means that now the US govt has my fingerprints while the Canadian govt does not. We were never warned that this would happen and most people won't cancel a vacation just to prevent the US from fingerprinting them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm Canadian and was traveling from Canada to Costa-Rica with a stop at a US airport without an international zone .
I had to do the whole US customs thing and they took both my picture and fingerprints .
Which means that now the US govt has my fingerprints while the Canadian govt does not .
We were never warned that this would happen and most people wo n't cancel a vacation just to prevent the US from fingerprinting them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm Canadian and was traveling from Canada to Costa-Rica with a stop at a US airport without an international zone.
I had to do the whole US customs thing and they took both my picture and fingerprints.
Which means that now the US govt has my fingerprints while the Canadian govt does not.
We were never warned that this would happen and most people won't cancel a vacation just to prevent the US from fingerprinting them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324862</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>ak\_hepcat</author>
	<datestamp>1267451340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, we pardon it.</p><p>But only because you haven't figured out that parents pass their genes on to their children, and that prior samples might be matched against 'new blood'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , we pardon it.But only because you have n't figured out that parents pass their genes on to their children , and that prior samples might be matched against 'new blood'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, we pardon it.But only because you haven't figured out that parents pass their genes on to their children, and that prior samples might be matched against 'new blood'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329382</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1267543080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because the TFA certainly doesn't.</p><p>How, exactly, are <i>anonymized</i> blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases, or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?  That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.</p><p>I'm not defending what was done, but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation.  Possibly a good idea, but the implementation (doing it without consent) is clearly wrong.</p></div><p>Simple you can copyright the private database and it's contents preventing people form using said data unless they license the data. YOu can also patent the gene sequences so your derived gene therapy. Nothing like having the cure for cancer in YOUR dna but some other company can patent YOUR dna and profit while you, the original DNA provider gets nothing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the TFA certainly does n't.How , exactly , are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases , or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample ?
That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized , which there 's no way to know for sure.I 'm not defending what was done , but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation .
Possibly a good idea , but the implementation ( doing it without consent ) is clearly wrong.Simple you can copyright the private database and it 's contents preventing people form using said data unless they license the data .
YOu can also patent the gene sequences so your derived gene therapy .
Nothing like having the cure for cancer in YOUR dna but some other company can patent YOUR dna and profit while you , the original DNA provider gets nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the TFA certainly doesn't.How, exactly, are anonymized blood samples going to used to track down missing persons or solve cold cases, or do anything else that hinges on tying a person to that blood sample?
That is assuming you believe the samples were actually anonymized, which there's no way to know for sure.I'm not defending what was done, but the only real use I can see would be statistical evaluation.
Possibly a good idea, but the implementation (doing it without consent) is clearly wrong.Simple you can copyright the private database and it's contents preventing people form using said data unless they license the data.
YOu can also patent the gene sequences so your derived gene therapy.
Nothing like having the cure for cancer in YOUR dna but some other company can patent YOUR dna and profit while you, the original DNA provider gets nothing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326340</id>
	<title>Re:to remove some confusion:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA is</p></div><p>Yeah, and if one of these kids has the same mitochondrial DNA as a sample found at a crime scene, they can be pretty sure to find themselves a suspect on that baby's mother's side of the family.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA isYeah , and if one of these kids has the same mitochondrial DNA as a sample found at a crime scene , they can be pretty sure to find themselves a suspect on that baby 's mother 's side of the family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it is unlikely to be able to be traced directly back to you or identify you the way your chromosomal DNA isYeah, and if one of these kids has the same mitochondrial DNA as a sample found at a crime scene, they can be pretty sure to find themselves a suspect on that baby's mother's side of the family.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31335084</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267522560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>because if you did there would be nothing you could do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>because if you did there would be nothing you could do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>because if you did there would be nothing you could do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325114</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>DebateG</author>
	<datestamp>1267453200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From reading the projects on the <a href="http://www.dna.gov/research/mitochondrial\_research/" title="dna.gov">DNA Initiative's</a> [dna.gov] website, it seems that they need mitochondrial DNA samples as test samples to develop various forensic techniques.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From reading the projects on the DNA Initiative 's [ dna.gov ] website , it seems that they need mitochondrial DNA samples as test samples to develop various forensic techniques .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From reading the projects on the DNA Initiative's [dna.gov] website, it seems that they need mitochondrial DNA samples as test samples to develop various forensic techniques.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326068</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>querent23</author>
	<datestamp>1267461360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"We own this."

"I am this."</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We own this .
" " I am this .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We own this.
"

"I am this.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325902</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who. Cares. What. *You*. Want. There's a pretty good chance that in a few decades *she* will care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who .
Cares. What .
* You * . Want .
There 's a pretty good chance that in a few decades * she * will care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who.
Cares. What.
*You*. Want.
There's a pretty good chance that in a few decades *she* will care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329634</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Tuoqui</author>
	<datestamp>1267544340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone remember the incident with AOL and its 'Anonymized' search/traffic data? Yeah they were able to take that shit and pin it down to individual users. You dont think 'anonymized' DNA samples couldnt have the same occur?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone remember the incident with AOL and its 'Anonymized ' search/traffic data ?
Yeah they were able to take that shit and pin it down to individual users .
You dont think 'anonymized ' DNA samples couldnt have the same occur ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone remember the incident with AOL and its 'Anonymized' search/traffic data?
Yeah they were able to take that shit and pin it down to individual users.
You dont think 'anonymized' DNA samples couldnt have the same occur?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>shadowbearer</author>
	<datestamp>1267454280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them</i></p><p>
&nbsp; No. It "belongs" to the being it was taken from. The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It does not matter who sequenced it first. It does not matter whether it has unique properties. It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.</p><p>
&nbsp; No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.</p><p>
&nbsp; Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to, there are things that we - as human beings - won't give up. This is one of them.  History proves that.</p><p>
&nbsp; If those in power wish to [continue] to do so, they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have; they will eventually be replaced.</p><p>
&nbsp; Fools.</p><p>SB</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital , it belongs to them   No .
It " belongs " to the being it was taken from .
The being it was taken from has first " copyright " / " patent " / " trademark " to it ( add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary , here )       It does not matter who sequenced it first .
It does not matter whether it has unique properties .
It does not matter who it was taken from , whether they consented to it , or not .
  No corporation , government , nor any other entity , can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to .
  Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to , there are things that we - as human beings - wo n't give up .
This is one of them .
History proves that .
  If those in power wish to [ continue ] to do so , they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have ; they will eventually be replaced .
  Fools.SB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them
  No.
It "belongs" to the being it was taken from.
The being it was taken from has first "copyright"/"patent"/"trademark" to it (add whatever terms the lawyers feel necessary, here)
      It does not matter who sequenced it first.
It does not matter whether it has unique properties.
It does not matter who it was taken from, whether they consented to it, or not.
  No corporation, government, nor any other entity, can own anything about me that I do not give explicitly give them rights to.
  Legislators can pontificate as much as they want to, there are things that we - as human beings - won't give up.
This is one of them.
History proves that.
  If those in power wish to [continue] to do so, they will suffer the same fate as their predecessors have; they will eventually be replaced.
  Fools.SB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326606</id>
	<title>We are not property. Children are not property.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267466880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is YOUR genetic information. It is you soul possession upon entering this world. Then they take it from you. If they had asked it would not have seemed just the theft<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... theft from a new born baby. How morally bankrupt is that? Had they just had the common sense to ask, most people would have said yes. Most people will help a homeless person and curse a thief. Learn the difference or expect people to laugh when your possessions are stolen, even though you might have been willing to give them away. Removal of choice or forcing someone on a person is unAmerican. It goes against most of what the country was founded yo uphold. Try to remember, there is no legal document that gives your fundamental rights in this country. You're thinking the Constitution does right? Nope. Not a chance. The Constitution expressly does not give you any of the right in it, or any others. I helps to explain that you were born or created with those right and the Constitution can only reaffirm those rights. Your right explained by the Constitution, but those are not the limits. It clearly violates the spirit, if not the law, of the Constitution while showing amazing disrespect for children and parents alike. I can't this of this as somehow a friendly thing. Since they did not crow on the news about it and clearly went to zero effort to make it known. This shows the height of their shame in what looks like the worst unimaginable theft of something so personal. How much that most dampen the mood of what would have been the happiest moment for so many, when they discover their child's very identity was taken without being told. We are not property. They don't own us. Our children are not their play things. Our children are not their property. I resent being treated that way. I resent children being treated that way.</p><p>Obama is fired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is YOUR genetic information .
It is you soul possession upon entering this world .
Then they take it from you .
If they had asked it would not have seemed just the theft ... theft from a new born baby .
How morally bankrupt is that ?
Had they just had the common sense to ask , most people would have said yes .
Most people will help a homeless person and curse a thief .
Learn the difference or expect people to laugh when your possessions are stolen , even though you might have been willing to give them away .
Removal of choice or forcing someone on a person is unAmerican .
It goes against most of what the country was founded yo uphold .
Try to remember , there is no legal document that gives your fundamental rights in this country .
You 're thinking the Constitution does right ?
Nope. Not a chance .
The Constitution expressly does not give you any of the right in it , or any others .
I helps to explain that you were born or created with those right and the Constitution can only reaffirm those rights .
Your right explained by the Constitution , but those are not the limits .
It clearly violates the spirit , if not the law , of the Constitution while showing amazing disrespect for children and parents alike .
I ca n't this of this as somehow a friendly thing .
Since they did not crow on the news about it and clearly went to zero effort to make it known .
This shows the height of their shame in what looks like the worst unimaginable theft of something so personal .
How much that most dampen the mood of what would have been the happiest moment for so many , when they discover their child 's very identity was taken without being told .
We are not property .
They do n't own us .
Our children are not their play things .
Our children are not their property .
I resent being treated that way .
I resent children being treated that way.Obama is fired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is YOUR genetic information.
It is you soul possession upon entering this world.
Then they take it from you.
If they had asked it would not have seemed just the theft ... theft from a new born baby.
How morally bankrupt is that?
Had they just had the common sense to ask, most people would have said yes.
Most people will help a homeless person and curse a thief.
Learn the difference or expect people to laugh when your possessions are stolen, even though you might have been willing to give them away.
Removal of choice or forcing someone on a person is unAmerican.
It goes against most of what the country was founded yo uphold.
Try to remember, there is no legal document that gives your fundamental rights in this country.
You're thinking the Constitution does right?
Nope. Not a chance.
The Constitution expressly does not give you any of the right in it, or any others.
I helps to explain that you were born or created with those right and the Constitution can only reaffirm those rights.
Your right explained by the Constitution, but those are not the limits.
It clearly violates the spirit, if not the law, of the Constitution while showing amazing disrespect for children and parents alike.
I can't this of this as somehow a friendly thing.
Since they did not crow on the news about it and clearly went to zero effort to make it known.
This shows the height of their shame in what looks like the worst unimaginable theft of something so personal.
How much that most dampen the mood of what would have been the happiest moment for so many, when they discover their child's very identity was taken without being told.
We are not property.
They don't own us.
Our children are not their play things.
Our children are not their property.
I resent being treated that way.
I resent children being treated that way.Obama is fired.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325486</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>freedom\_india</author>
	<datestamp>1267456260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nope. Will NEVER happen.<br>Why?<br>1) Its Texas.<br>2) The officials were helping the Govt. commit a crime. You can't convict a Govt.<br>3) Even if everything goes OK, the state dept will cite official secrets as a reason to get the case thrown out.</p><p>Tell me how many officials have been convicted so far in:<br>1) Public prosecutors firing<br>2) CIA agent outing.<br>3) Katrina failures<br>4) Gitmo tortures</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nope .
Will NEVER happen.Why ? 1 ) Its Texas.2 ) The officials were helping the Govt .
commit a crime .
You ca n't convict a Govt.3 ) Even if everything goes OK , the state dept will cite official secrets as a reason to get the case thrown out.Tell me how many officials have been convicted so far in : 1 ) Public prosecutors firing2 ) CIA agent outing.3 ) Katrina failures4 ) Gitmo tortures</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nope.
Will NEVER happen.Why?1) Its Texas.2) The officials were helping the Govt.
commit a crime.
You can't convict a Govt.3) Even if everything goes OK, the state dept will cite official secrets as a reason to get the case thrown out.Tell me how many officials have been convicted so far in:1) Public prosecutors firing2) CIA agent outing.3) Katrina failures4) Gitmo tortures</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</id>
	<title>IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267452420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone else agree or disagree?</p><p>Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else agree or disagree ? Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else agree or disagree?Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325426</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>DeadboltX</author>
	<datestamp>1267455660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".</p></div><p>
If someone won't live long enough to pay back a loan, isn't that a good reason to deny someone a loan?
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Oh , sorry , your Genetic Rating ( tm ) says you probably wo n't live long enough to pay us back , ca n't help you with that new car " .
If someone wo n't live long enough to pay back a loan , is n't that a good reason to deny someone a loan ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Oh, sorry, your Genetic Rating (tm) says you probably won't live long enough to pay us back, can't help you with that new car".
If someone won't live long enough to pay back a loan, isn't that a good reason to deny someone a loan?

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</id>
	<title>not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267451460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually not that unusual. Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them, and you have no property rights over it. For an extreme case, check out the story of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta\_Lacks" title="wikipedia.org">Henrietta Lacks</a> [wikipedia.org], who died of cancer in 1951. They took cells from her tumor, kept them alive indefinitely, and commercialized them. Her relatives didn't know about any of this until decades later.</p><p>
As TFA notes, these blood samples were anonymized, and mitochondrial DNA cannot be traced back to individuals.
</p><p>
So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights. And therefore the issue was...?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually not that unusual .
Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital , it belongs to them , and you have no property rights over it .
For an extreme case , check out the story of Henrietta Lacks [ wikipedia.org ] , who died of cancer in 1951 .
They took cells from her tumor , kept them alive indefinitely , and commercialized them .
Her relatives did n't know about any of this until decades later .
As TFA notes , these blood samples were anonymized , and mitochondrial DNA can not be traced back to individuals .
So there was no privacy issue , and no issue of property rights .
And therefore the issue was... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually not that unusual.
Typically if they take a tissue sample from you at the hospital, it belongs to them, and you have no property rights over it.
For an extreme case, check out the story of Henrietta Lacks [wikipedia.org], who died of cancer in 1951.
They took cells from her tumor, kept them alive indefinitely, and commercialized them.
Her relatives didn't know about any of this until decades later.
As TFA notes, these blood samples were anonymized, and mitochondrial DNA cannot be traced back to individuals.
So there was no privacy issue, and no issue of property rights.
And therefore the issue was...?
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326282</id>
	<title>My wife was right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267463640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We ran into this same survey in 2005, we read the form and it was an immediate NO WAY.  The nurse said it was a "legal requirement."  My wife's BS detector hit 10 at that point and told them it wasn't happening in this lifetime.</p><p>Needless to say, we got a birth certificate despite the refusal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We ran into this same survey in 2005 , we read the form and it was an immediate NO WAY .
The nurse said it was a " legal requirement .
" My wife 's BS detector hit 10 at that point and told them it was n't happening in this lifetime.Needless to say , we got a birth certificate despite the refusal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We ran into this same survey in 2005, we read the form and it was an immediate NO WAY.
The nurse said it was a "legal requirement.
"  My wife's BS detector hit 10 at that point and told them it wasn't happening in this lifetime.Needless to say, we got a birth certificate despite the refusal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325462</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How convenient that you can't find this mysterious article that supposedly validates your claim. Provide a citation or you're essentially a liar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How convenient that you ca n't find this mysterious article that supposedly validates your claim .
Provide a citation or you 're essentially a liar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How convenient that you can't find this mysterious article that supposedly validates your claim.
Provide a citation or you're essentially a liar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325184</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325244</id>
	<title>2001?</title>
	<author>whipnet</author>
	<datestamp>1267454220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My son was born in Houston in late 2001.  I don't get warm fuzzy feelings from this article.

*</htmltext>
<tokenext>My son was born in Houston in late 2001 .
I do n't get warm fuzzy feelings from this article .
*</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My son was born in Houston in late 2001.
I don't get warm fuzzy feelings from this article.
*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329088</id>
	<title>Re:What's the purpose of the secret DNA database?</title>
	<author>spiralpath</author>
	<datestamp>1267541580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kind of an aside, but identifying races and profiling racial differences are not legitimate research paths.  Race has long been determined to be a social construct, not a biological fact.  Modern physical anthropology has much better language and approaches to genetic differences between groups of people.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of an aside , but identifying races and profiling racial differences are not legitimate research paths .
Race has long been determined to be a social construct , not a biological fact .
Modern physical anthropology has much better language and approaches to genetic differences between groups of people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of an aside, but identifying races and profiling racial differences are not legitimate research paths.
Race has long been determined to be a social construct, not a biological fact.
Modern physical anthropology has much better language and approaches to genetic differences between groups of people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31327396</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267520940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No need to throw in bullshit fantasy words like &ldquo;copyright/trademarks/patents&rdquo; in there.<br>It&rsquo;s a physical object. The word is: <strong>OW</strong>.<strong>NER</strong>.<strong>SHIP</strong>.</p><p>You own your body. That is perhaps the single most foundational law of all laws ever written. (Countless laws use it as a base. E.g. all basic rights!)</p><p>So you own your blood sample. plain and simple. If they take it away from you, even as a baby, without your agreement, that is theft. Plain and simple. And a huge invasion of privacy too. Perhaps even bodily harm.<br>Of course as a baby, your parents are your legal representatives.</p><p>But about the rest of your comment: <strong>I completely and wholeheartedly agree!</strong></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No need to throw in bullshit fantasy words like    copyright/trademarks/patents    in there.It    s a physical object .
The word is : OW.NER.SHIP.You own your body .
That is perhaps the single most foundational law of all laws ever written .
( Countless laws use it as a base .
E.g. all basic rights !
) So you own your blood sample .
plain and simple .
If they take it away from you , even as a baby , without your agreement , that is theft .
Plain and simple .
And a huge invasion of privacy too .
Perhaps even bodily harm.Of course as a baby , your parents are your legal representatives.But about the rest of your comment : I completely and wholeheartedly agree !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No need to throw in bullshit fantasy words like “copyright/trademarks/patents” in there.It’s a physical object.
The word is: OW.NER.SHIP.You own your body.
That is perhaps the single most foundational law of all laws ever written.
(Countless laws use it as a base.
E.g. all basic rights!
)So you own your blood sample.
plain and simple.
If they take it away from you, even as a baby, without your agreement, that is theft.
Plain and simple.
And a huge invasion of privacy too.
Perhaps even bodily harm.Of course as a baby, your parents are your legal representatives.But about the rest of your comment: I completely and wholeheartedly agree!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325598</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>because of such things called familial matches.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>because of such things called familial matches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>because of such things called familial matches.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325146</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>zoloto</author>
	<datestamp>1267453440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because this is the exact response the government wants? Because once they tiptoe their way to a quick win to a full on DNA database it'll be too late? Because other examples of what some people call government encroaching on our rights is like microsoft's feature creep, all unnecessary and without merit?

I'm all about what seems like a good idea on paper but you throw the government into the mix and this just begs to be taken advantage of.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because this is the exact response the government wants ?
Because once they tiptoe their way to a quick win to a full on DNA database it 'll be too late ?
Because other examples of what some people call government encroaching on our rights is like microsoft 's feature creep , all unnecessary and without merit ?
I 'm all about what seems like a good idea on paper but you throw the government into the mix and this just begs to be taken advantage of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because this is the exact response the government wants?
Because once they tiptoe their way to a quick win to a full on DNA database it'll be too late?
Because other examples of what some people call government encroaching on our rights is like microsoft's feature creep, all unnecessary and without merit?
I'm all about what seems like a good idea on paper but you throw the government into the mix and this just begs to be taken advantage of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325506</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>Anachragnome</author>
	<datestamp>1267456440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Prison. Yes, sir.</p><p>In addition, I think that since we are talking criminal action here, we should also take DNA samples from the perpetrators of this heinous crime and see if there is some genetic correlation between the people involved and the crimes they committed, then use this data to weed out such miscreants from society before they can do any more damage.</p><p>Especially in Texas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Prison .
Yes , sir.In addition , I think that since we are talking criminal action here , we should also take DNA samples from the perpetrators of this heinous crime and see if there is some genetic correlation between the people involved and the crimes they committed , then use this data to weed out such miscreants from society before they can do any more damage.Especially in Texas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Prison.
Yes, sir.In addition, I think that since we are talking criminal action here, we should also take DNA samples from the perpetrators of this heinous crime and see if there is some genetic correlation between the people involved and the crimes they committed, then use this data to weed out such miscreants from society before they can do any more damage.Especially in Texas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325122</id>
	<title>Henrietta Lacks</title>
	<author>MillionthMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1267453320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Her family should get a royalty every time a cancer cell makes another unauthorized copy of her DNA.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Her family should get a royalty every time a cancer cell makes another unauthorized copy of her DNA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Her family should get a royalty every time a cancer cell makes another unauthorized copy of her DNA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330178</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267546920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moreover, seldom are medical data truly anonymized.   True anonymization makes it impossible, for example, to track disease progression --- say I have an MRI of head with a tumor.  If in six months another image is taken and both are truly anonymized I don't know that they belong together.</p><p>The other piece that is missing form most of the comments on this "story" is any mention of HIPAA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moreover , seldom are medical data truly anonymized .
True anonymization makes it impossible , for example , to track disease progression --- say I have an MRI of head with a tumor .
If in six months another image is taken and both are truly anonymized I do n't know that they belong together.The other piece that is missing form most of the comments on this " story " is any mention of HIPAA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moreover, seldom are medical data truly anonymized.
True anonymization makes it impossible, for example, to track disease progression --- say I have an MRI of head with a tumor.
If in six months another image is taken and both are truly anonymized I don't know that they belong together.The other piece that is missing form most of the comments on this "story" is any mention of HIPAA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</id>
	<title>pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267451100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?  I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But , how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case ?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, how is a blood sample from somebody born in 2003 going to solve a cold case?
I guess a seven year old is prone to murder.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325136</id>
	<title>wow, it sounds just like this dream I had...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...where aliens cross-bred with humans, and they had green acid blood, and there were bees, and Indians, and snow, and...well, whatever, but I bet all the X-Files movies pop up on cable in the next few weeks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...where aliens cross-bred with humans , and they had green acid blood , and there were bees , and Indians , and snow , and...well , whatever , but I bet all the X-Files movies pop up on cable in the next few weeks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...where aliens cross-bred with humans, and they had green acid blood, and there were bees, and Indians, and snow, and...well, whatever, but I bet all the X-Files movies pop up on cable in the next few weeks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326182</id>
	<title>DNA plus national healthcare....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not going to get into the ethical part of whether or not the government has a right to my DNA (I hear a women screaming in the back of my mind something about "my body, my choice!" but that is part of the ethical part of the argument) MY problem is if we give the gov our dna and they find a gene that say makes you more likely to get cancer, are you going to be denied coverage. OK OK I KNOW I have heard our politicians telling us that we will never be not covered because of preexisting conditions BUT Social Security started out OPTIONAL and we have all seen how our "Progressive tax" has grown to more than just the ORIGINAL 1\% it started as and there are PLENTY of other examples of the growth of government away from our founding principles.....</p><p>I also question "Of the 17 enumerated powers given to Congress in the US Constitution (that they all SWORE to uphold and DEFEND) which one gives them the Right to manage my PERSONAL health care?"</p><p>NOTE: When I say "our" "the Government" etc. I am referring to the USA where TFA is referring and this is taking place. I am also referring to the CURRENT debate (or lack of debate) on health care (the House and Senate bills that are VERY different and cost far more than we can afford... see  http://www.usdebtclock.org/ )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not going to get into the ethical part of whether or not the government has a right to my DNA ( I hear a women screaming in the back of my mind something about " my body , my choice !
" but that is part of the ethical part of the argument ) MY problem is if we give the gov our dna and they find a gene that say makes you more likely to get cancer , are you going to be denied coverage .
OK OK I KNOW I have heard our politicians telling us that we will never be not covered because of preexisting conditions BUT Social Security started out OPTIONAL and we have all seen how our " Progressive tax " has grown to more than just the ORIGINAL 1 \ % it started as and there are PLENTY of other examples of the growth of government away from our founding principles.....I also question " Of the 17 enumerated powers given to Congress in the US Constitution ( that they all SWORE to uphold and DEFEND ) which one gives them the Right to manage my PERSONAL health care ?
" NOTE : When I say " our " " the Government " etc .
I am referring to the USA where TFA is referring and this is taking place .
I am also referring to the CURRENT debate ( or lack of debate ) on health care ( the House and Senate bills that are VERY different and cost far more than we can afford... see http : //www.usdebtclock.org/ )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not going to get into the ethical part of whether or not the government has a right to my DNA (I hear a women screaming in the back of my mind something about "my body, my choice!
" but that is part of the ethical part of the argument) MY problem is if we give the gov our dna and they find a gene that say makes you more likely to get cancer, are you going to be denied coverage.
OK OK I KNOW I have heard our politicians telling us that we will never be not covered because of preexisting conditions BUT Social Security started out OPTIONAL and we have all seen how our "Progressive tax" has grown to more than just the ORIGINAL 1\% it started as and there are PLENTY of other examples of the growth of government away from our founding principles.....I also question "Of the 17 enumerated powers given to Congress in the US Constitution (that they all SWORE to uphold and DEFEND) which one gives them the Right to manage my PERSONAL health care?
"NOTE: When I say "our" "the Government" etc.
I am referring to the USA where TFA is referring and this is taking place.
I am also referring to the CURRENT debate (or lack of debate) on health care (the House and Senate bills that are VERY different and cost far more than we can afford... see  http://www.usdebtclock.org/ )</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326466</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>haruchai</author>
	<datestamp>1267465500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was the 1950's, in America and Henrietta was black - she didn't have any rights but the right to die. Although, I admit, many were treated badly back in those days, including lower-class Caucasians</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was the 1950 's , in America and Henrietta was black - she did n't have any rights but the right to die .
Although , I admit , many were treated badly back in those days , including lower-class Caucasians</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was the 1950's, in America and Henrietta was black - she didn't have any rights but the right to die.
Although, I admit, many were treated badly back in those days, including lower-class Caucasians</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330216</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1267547100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll play devil's advocate here: what is it about your genetic code that makes it your property? We leave bits and pieces of ourselves all over, all the time.  Free for anyone to pick up and use, without our knowledge or consent and  with no expectation of either privacy or compensation for our genetic "property".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll play devil 's advocate here : what is it about your genetic code that makes it your property ?
We leave bits and pieces of ourselves all over , all the time .
Free for anyone to pick up and use , without our knowledge or consent and with no expectation of either privacy or compensation for our genetic " property " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll play devil's advocate here: what is it about your genetic code that makes it your property?
We leave bits and pieces of ourselves all over, all the time.
Free for anyone to pick up and use, without our knowledge or consent and  with no expectation of either privacy or compensation for our genetic "property".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326086</id>
	<title>The X-Files Come Alive!</title>
	<author>RobinEggs</author>
	<datestamp>1267461660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, didn't anyone in the entire state of Texas watch the Fox Network between 1992 and 2001? Don't they realize people think DNA databasing represents a a conspiracy at work, or at best a gross invasion of privacy?<br> <br>
Benign or not, such actions require some notice and some collaboration. I'm sure many, many parents would gladly help the program if were they asked openly and satisfied of the limitations on using their child's sample.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , did n't anyone in the entire state of Texas watch the Fox Network between 1992 and 2001 ?
Do n't they realize people think DNA databasing represents a a conspiracy at work , or at best a gross invasion of privacy ?
Benign or not , such actions require some notice and some collaboration .
I 'm sure many , many parents would gladly help the program if were they asked openly and satisfied of the limitations on using their child 's sample .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, didn't anyone in the entire state of Texas watch the Fox Network between 1992 and 2001?
Don't they realize people think DNA databasing represents a a conspiracy at work, or at best a gross invasion of privacy?
Benign or not, such actions require some notice and some collaboration.
I'm sure many, many parents would gladly help the program if were they asked openly and satisfied of the limitations on using their child's sample.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325112</id>
	<title>DNA testing of newborns is widespread</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CNN reported last month that DNA samples from newborns are taken in <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/04/baby.dna.government/?hpt=C1" title="cnn.com" rel="nofollow">several states</a> [cnn.com] without parent consent or notification. In Florida, they are stored indefinitely. Many states give the samples to researchers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CNN reported last month that DNA samples from newborns are taken in several states [ cnn.com ] without parent consent or notification .
In Florida , they are stored indefinitely .
Many states give the samples to researchers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CNN reported last month that DNA samples from newborns are taken in several states [cnn.com] without parent consent or notification.
In Florida, they are stored indefinitely.
Many states give the samples to researchers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325194</id>
	<title>Organ transplants</title>
	<author>happyfeet2000</author>
	<datestamp>1267453860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Beside the obvious total control aspects, the elite needs to know who is a good fit for organ transplant.

Nah, I'm just too paranoid today.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Beside the obvious total control aspects , the elite needs to know who is a good fit for organ transplant .
Nah , I 'm just too paranoid today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Beside the obvious total control aspects, the elite needs to know who is a good fit for organ transplant.
Nah, I'm just too paranoid today.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326428</id>
	<title>Obama's term is Bush's 3rd term.</title>
	<author>Tiger Smile</author>
	<datestamp>1267465140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insane. The Federal government has almost not jurisdiction within a state and over the people. The 4th amendment saw to that. How can I feel safe in my person when someone is violating the rights of newborn babies? I voted for Obama, and I Hoped to see Change. Haven't see fuck all. I gave him a break, but the idea of wanting to take over the Internet based on the most obvious lies is amazing. And Rahm wants to send all 18 year olds into the army. Read his book. It's scary. I loved him during the campaign and I love that he was not McCain. However after all that I've seen he has done nothing useful. Bailouts, GM, Stimulus, Wars, Wiretapping, internet take over, the Morthers act, Patriot act renewal, and taking DNA from children to store so that Insurance companies can deny our kids benefits or something? Insane. It's not just impolite it's without any dignity or respect for the people. Some poor dump idiot asked what the problem was. Idiot. They took something from people's kids and didn't ask. New born babies. Few things are as helpless and innocent. Welcome to the world the greatest nation on the planet where you will have your right's molested withing minutes. Such respect for the individual. Such respect for the constitution. The paragon of virtue. The President and Congress ONLY have ONE job, uphold the Constitution. How can they do that while spiting on it with crap like this. Amazing.</p><p>If you are not burning mad with white hot hate at the moment, you don't have kids, or you are the kind of person who likes or puts up with abuse. In any case if you are not pissed I feel deeply sorry for you. You really don't know what's going on it you are not mad about this. Really.</p><p>Both parties are losers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insane .
The Federal government has almost not jurisdiction within a state and over the people .
The 4th amendment saw to that .
How can I feel safe in my person when someone is violating the rights of newborn babies ?
I voted for Obama , and I Hoped to see Change .
Have n't see fuck all .
I gave him a break , but the idea of wanting to take over the Internet based on the most obvious lies is amazing .
And Rahm wants to send all 18 year olds into the army .
Read his book .
It 's scary .
I loved him during the campaign and I love that he was not McCain .
However after all that I 've seen he has done nothing useful .
Bailouts , GM , Stimulus , Wars , Wiretapping , internet take over , the Morthers act , Patriot act renewal , and taking DNA from children to store so that Insurance companies can deny our kids benefits or something ?
Insane. It 's not just impolite it 's without any dignity or respect for the people .
Some poor dump idiot asked what the problem was .
Idiot. They took something from people 's kids and did n't ask .
New born babies .
Few things are as helpless and innocent .
Welcome to the world the greatest nation on the planet where you will have your right 's molested withing minutes .
Such respect for the individual .
Such respect for the constitution .
The paragon of virtue .
The President and Congress ONLY have ONE job , uphold the Constitution .
How can they do that while spiting on it with crap like this .
Amazing.If you are not burning mad with white hot hate at the moment , you do n't have kids , or you are the kind of person who likes or puts up with abuse .
In any case if you are not pissed I feel deeply sorry for you .
You really do n't know what 's going on it you are not mad about this .
Really.Both parties are losers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insane.
The Federal government has almost not jurisdiction within a state and over the people.
The 4th amendment saw to that.
How can I feel safe in my person when someone is violating the rights of newborn babies?
I voted for Obama, and I Hoped to see Change.
Haven't see fuck all.
I gave him a break, but the idea of wanting to take over the Internet based on the most obvious lies is amazing.
And Rahm wants to send all 18 year olds into the army.
Read his book.
It's scary.
I loved him during the campaign and I love that he was not McCain.
However after all that I've seen he has done nothing useful.
Bailouts, GM, Stimulus, Wars, Wiretapping, internet take over, the Morthers act, Patriot act renewal, and taking DNA from children to store so that Insurance companies can deny our kids benefits or something?
Insane. It's not just impolite it's without any dignity or respect for the people.
Some poor dump idiot asked what the problem was.
Idiot. They took something from people's kids and didn't ask.
New born babies.
Few things are as helpless and innocent.
Welcome to the world the greatest nation on the planet where you will have your right's molested withing minutes.
Such respect for the individual.
Such respect for the constitution.
The paragon of virtue.
The President and Congress ONLY have ONE job, uphold the Constitution.
How can they do that while spiting on it with crap like this.
Amazing.If you are not burning mad with white hot hate at the moment, you don't have kids, or you are the kind of person who likes or puts up with abuse.
In any case if you are not pissed I feel deeply sorry for you.
You really don't know what's going on it you are not mad about this.
Really.Both parties are losers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324986</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267452120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably, "anonymized" to them really means that only the person's name was erased. Yet, as most slashdotters know, there are other ways to track a person from other information. For example, the name may be gone, but if the hospital and birth date are yet in the database, it narrows down considerably the number of people being searched. And, as we all know, the db probably will be abused at some time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably , " anonymized " to them really means that only the person 's name was erased .
Yet , as most slashdotters know , there are other ways to track a person from other information .
For example , the name may be gone , but if the hospital and birth date are yet in the database , it narrows down considerably the number of people being searched .
And , as we all know , the db probably will be abused at some time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably, "anonymized" to them really means that only the person's name was erased.
Yet, as most slashdotters know, there are other ways to track a person from other information.
For example, the name may be gone, but if the hospital and birth date are yet in the database, it narrows down considerably the number of people being searched.
And, as we all know, the db probably will be abused at some time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329516</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267543800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because you get a match based on family links. There are plenty of examples of it here in the UK where someones relative gets arrested on a minor offence such as drink driving and this leads the police to a offender who left their DNA at a crime scene but weren't on the database or found via traditional methods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because you get a match based on family links .
There are plenty of examples of it here in the UK where someones relative gets arrested on a minor offence such as drink driving and this leads the police to a offender who left their DNA at a crime scene but were n't on the database or found via traditional methods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because you get a match based on family links.
There are plenty of examples of it here in the UK where someones relative gets arrested on a minor offence such as drink driving and this leads the police to a offender who left their DNA at a crime scene but weren't on the database or found via traditional methods.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325524</id>
	<title>Re:My daughter was born in Texas in 2007</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't care what they did with her blood.</p><p>Not.  One.  Bit.</p></div><p>I hope she feels the same way as you in 18 years.....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't care what they did with her blood.Not .
One. Bit.I hope she feels the same way as you in 18 years.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't care what they did with her blood.Not.
One.  Bit.I hope she feels the same way as you in 18 years.....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326674</id>
	<title>Re:Someone enlighten me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267467480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually this is done in the clinical laboratories all the time. I work in a hospital lab as a medical technologist and we frequently use patient samples for things other than the initial testing that they were collected for. For example, in a recent study we collected samples from cardiac markers(Troponin, Myoglobin, CK-MB), transferred off some of the plasma/serum into other plastic tubes, assigned it a random sequence number, wrote the result on the plastic tube and froze it.</p><p>There is NOTHING to ID the original patient on it. There is no consent gathered from the patients either.</p><p>Even on a smaller scale, your samples drawn might be used to validate a new internal test procedure, or used as control for other assays (such as fetal stains where normal male blood is preferred for the negative controls and dilutions),</p><p>I've worked in multiple laboratories and this is standard procedure for new method/new reagent/new analyzer validations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually this is done in the clinical laboratories all the time .
I work in a hospital lab as a medical technologist and we frequently use patient samples for things other than the initial testing that they were collected for .
For example , in a recent study we collected samples from cardiac markers ( Troponin , Myoglobin , CK-MB ) , transferred off some of the plasma/serum into other plastic tubes , assigned it a random sequence number , wrote the result on the plastic tube and froze it.There is NOTHING to ID the original patient on it .
There is no consent gathered from the patients either.Even on a smaller scale , your samples drawn might be used to validate a new internal test procedure , or used as control for other assays ( such as fetal stains where normal male blood is preferred for the negative controls and dilutions ) ,I 've worked in multiple laboratories and this is standard procedure for new method/new reagent/new analyzer validations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually this is done in the clinical laboratories all the time.
I work in a hospital lab as a medical technologist and we frequently use patient samples for things other than the initial testing that they were collected for.
For example, in a recent study we collected samples from cardiac markers(Troponin, Myoglobin, CK-MB), transferred off some of the plasma/serum into other plastic tubes, assigned it a random sequence number, wrote the result on the plastic tube and froze it.There is NOTHING to ID the original patient on it.
There is no consent gathered from the patients either.Even on a smaller scale, your samples drawn might be used to validate a new internal test procedure, or used as control for other assays (such as fetal stains where normal male blood is preferred for the negative controls and dilutions),I've worked in multiple laboratories and this is standard procedure for new method/new reagent/new analyzer validations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31330228</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1267547160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anyone else agree or disagree?</p></div><p>Yes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else agree or disagree ? Yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else agree or disagree?Yes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31329128</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267541820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just make your own bread if you care that much. It's not hard, and is much cheaper to boot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just make your own bread if you care that much .
It 's not hard , and is much cheaper to boot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just make your own bread if you care that much.
It's not hard, and is much cheaper to boot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325582</id>
	<title>Re:not unusual, no privacy or property issue</title>
	<author>Macrat</author>
	<datestamp>1267457340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>
Times have changed since then.</p></div><p>Have they changed? Or is it just more mainstream? </p><p>The food industry experiments on you all the time just for profit. Go try to find bread in the store that doesn't have chemically altered high fructose corn syrup in it.</p><p>Not to mention the doctors becoming drug pushers for the drug companies.</p><p>The list goes on. All without your consent.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Times have changed since then.Have they changed ?
Or is it just more mainstream ?
The food industry experiments on you all the time just for profit .
Go try to find bread in the store that does n't have chemically altered high fructose corn syrup in it.Not to mention the doctors becoming drug pushers for the drug companies.The list goes on .
All without your consent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Times have changed since then.Have they changed?
Or is it just more mainstream?
The food industry experiments on you all the time just for profit.
Go try to find bread in the store that doesn't have chemically altered high fructose corn syrup in it.Not to mention the doctors becoming drug pushers for the drug companies.The list goes on.
All without your consent.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31326294</id>
	<title>Re:pardon my ignorance</title>
	<author>AmigaMMC</author>
	<datestamp>1267463820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The seven year old might not be a murder today but he could commit a murder 10 years from now and the government, I guess, would still have the DNA sample.<p>Considering how many innocent people have gone to jail or death row for murders they didn't commit, I'm not sure I'm entirely against the idea of collecting DNA samples.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The seven year old might not be a murder today but he could commit a murder 10 years from now and the government , I guess , would still have the DNA sample.Considering how many innocent people have gone to jail or death row for murders they did n't commit , I 'm not sure I 'm entirely against the idea of collecting DNA samples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The seven year old might not be a murder today but he could commit a murder 10 years from now and the government, I guess, would still have the DNA sample.Considering how many innocent people have gone to jail or death row for murders they didn't commit, I'm not sure I'm entirely against the idea of collecting DNA samples.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31324824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325144</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>rec9140</author>
	<datestamp>1267453440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;Anyone else agree or disagree?<br>&gt;Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?</p><p>Some thing far more terminal, painful, and with extreme prejudice, and being Texas I think the residents are probably well equipped to handle it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Anyone else agree or disagree ? &gt; Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield ? Some thing far more terminal , painful , and with extreme prejudice , and being Texas I think the residents are probably well equipped to handle it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;Anyone else agree or disagree?&gt;Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?Some thing far more terminal, painful, and with extreme prejudice, and being Texas I think the residents are probably well equipped to handle it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325504</id>
	<title>Re:IMHO a few people need to go to prison.</title>
	<author>BitterOak</author>
	<datestamp>1267456440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anyone else agree or disagree?</p><p>Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?</p></div><p>And that's precisely what this program is supposed to accomplish.  As the article says, they are hoping it will help solve some cold cases.  That would be great, but that doesn't mean there aren't privacy issues involved.  Should this DNA be used in civil suits, for instance?  And what if it is sold to insurance companies?  Simply putting more people in jail doesn't necessarily justify the means.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else agree or disagree ? Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield ? And that 's precisely what this program is supposed to accomplish .
As the article says , they are hoping it will help solve some cold cases .
That would be great , but that does n't mean there are n't privacy issues involved .
Should this DNA be used in civil suits , for instance ?
And what if it is sold to insurance companies ?
Simply putting more people in jail does n't necessarily justify the means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else agree or disagree?Discuss... what kind of punishment should this yield?And that's precisely what this program is supposed to accomplish.
As the article says, they are hoping it will help solve some cold cases.
That would be great, but that doesn't mean there aren't privacy issues involved.
Should this DNA be used in civil suits, for instance?
And what if it is sold to insurance companies?
Simply putting more people in jail doesn't necessarily justify the means.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_2250248.31325034</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_7</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_59</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_66</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_49</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_60</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_2250248_56</id>
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