<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_01_132219</id>
	<title>How Do You Get Users To Read Error Messages?</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1267452060000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A BOFH writes <i>"The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen.  Instead, they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.  Error logs help a lot, but they have their limits.  I've been toying with a few ideas, but I don't know if any of them will work and I was hoping my fellow Slashdotters could point me in the right direction.  For example, I was thinking about creating icons or logos to identify specific errors.  They might not remember that an error is about 'uninitialized data' but they might be more able to remember that they got the 'puppy error' if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.  Or for times when finding images is too time consuming, you could create simple logos from letters, numbers, symbols, colors, or shapes, so you could have the 'red 5' error or 'blue square' error (or any combination of those elements).  I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error. Unfortunately, haptic and olfactory feedback aren't readily available.  I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls. And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it. Does anyone else have experience with ideas like these?  Did it work?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>A BOFH writes " The longer I do desktop support , the more it becomes obvious that my users do n't read anything that appears on their screen .
Instead , they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens , they 're completely lost .
Error logs help a lot , but they have their limits .
I 've been toying with a few ideas , but I do n't know if any of them will work and I was hoping my fellow Slashdotters could point me in the right direction .
For example , I was thinking about creating icons or logos to identify specific errors .
They might not remember that an error is about 'uninitialized data ' but they might be more able to remember that they got the 'puppy error ' if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message .
Or for times when finding images is too time consuming , you could create simple logos from letters , numbers , symbols , colors , or shapes , so you could have the 'red 5 ' error or 'blue square ' error ( or any combination of those elements ) .
I 've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses , for example , playing a unique sound with the error .
Unfortunately , haptic and olfactory feedback are n't readily available .
I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls .
And if they forgot it anyhow , I could always help them reproduce it .
Does anyone else have experience with ideas like these ?
Did it work ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A BOFH writes "The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen.
Instead, they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.
Error logs help a lot, but they have their limits.
I've been toying with a few ideas, but I don't know if any of them will work and I was hoping my fellow Slashdotters could point me in the right direction.
For example, I was thinking about creating icons or logos to identify specific errors.
They might not remember that an error is about 'uninitialized data' but they might be more able to remember that they got the 'puppy error' if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.
Or for times when finding images is too time consuming, you could create simple logos from letters, numbers, symbols, colors, or shapes, so you could have the 'red 5' error or 'blue square' error (or any combination of those elements).
I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error.
Unfortunately, haptic and olfactory feedback aren't readily available.
I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls.
And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it.
Does anyone else have experience with ideas like these?
Did it work?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319952</id>
	<title>Extend from Error Message to (other) UI</title>
	<author>FordPrefect276709</author>
	<datestamp>1267473360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I very much fancy the idea with different icons for different error messages. It does improve the recognition of 'something special going on', as I can say from some pretty small samples where I could test that.</p><p>Two downsides remained:<br>a) Users DID (as they reported later) recognize a special message ('with that picture of a puppy') being presented. But they did not get the message at all (reading - understanding - correcting the problem wasn't improved)<br>b) The more different icons got involved, the more people just got confused. They just thought of the application as 'a little bit' funny</p><p>What got me better results is incorporating the error message into the actual working ui. Think of red boxes around fields that are not properly filled. Say if they break something while entering some customer data, let the whole customer data form turn angry-red or mildly-orange - or maybe just parts.</p><p>Highlight broken parts where they should go and fix something. They would only do it, if it got some value for them. If they are responsible for a customer telephone number to be correct, they'd care about a red phone number field. Otherwise they wouldn't.</p><p>If they want to go online with their wi-fi, they will care about a red wi-fi icon.</p><p>So my advice: Don't distract with (unrelated) icons, pictures or error messages as a whole. You already got their attention on the subject that matters to them. Tell them in an easy and intuitive pattern (traffic light color) if that's ok or not.</p><p>Always remember: They care about their work, not about the inner feelings of your app!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I very much fancy the idea with different icons for different error messages .
It does improve the recognition of 'something special going on ' , as I can say from some pretty small samples where I could test that.Two downsides remained : a ) Users DID ( as they reported later ) recognize a special message ( 'with that picture of a puppy ' ) being presented .
But they did not get the message at all ( reading - understanding - correcting the problem was n't improved ) b ) The more different icons got involved , the more people just got confused .
They just thought of the application as 'a little bit ' funnyWhat got me better results is incorporating the error message into the actual working ui .
Think of red boxes around fields that are not properly filled .
Say if they break something while entering some customer data , let the whole customer data form turn angry-red or mildly-orange - or maybe just parts.Highlight broken parts where they should go and fix something .
They would only do it , if it got some value for them .
If they are responsible for a customer telephone number to be correct , they 'd care about a red phone number field .
Otherwise they would n't.If they want to go online with their wi-fi , they will care about a red wi-fi icon.So my advice : Do n't distract with ( unrelated ) icons , pictures or error messages as a whole .
You already got their attention on the subject that matters to them .
Tell them in an easy and intuitive pattern ( traffic light color ) if that 's ok or not.Always remember : They care about their work , not about the inner feelings of your app !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I very much fancy the idea with different icons for different error messages.
It does improve the recognition of 'something special going on', as I can say from some pretty small samples where I could test that.Two downsides remained:a) Users DID (as they reported later) recognize a special message ('with that picture of a puppy') being presented.
But they did not get the message at all (reading - understanding - correcting the problem wasn't improved)b) The more different icons got involved, the more people just got confused.
They just thought of the application as 'a little bit' funnyWhat got me better results is incorporating the error message into the actual working ui.
Think of red boxes around fields that are not properly filled.
Say if they break something while entering some customer data, let the whole customer data form turn angry-red or mildly-orange - or maybe just parts.Highlight broken parts where they should go and fix something.
They would only do it, if it got some value for them.
If they are responsible for a customer telephone number to be correct, they'd care about a red phone number field.
Otherwise they wouldn't.If they want to go online with their wi-fi, they will care about a red wi-fi icon.So my advice: Don't distract with (unrelated) icons, pictures or error messages as a whole.
You already got their attention on the subject that matters to them.
Tell them in an easy and intuitive pattern (traffic light color) if that's ok or not.Always remember: They care about their work, not about the inner feelings of your app!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317092</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I strongly, strongly disagree with this.  The #1 problem with errors is being <i>too wordy</i>, because you get an immediate "tl;dr" response.  I'm a computer programmer, and in all honesty if I were faced with a wall of text like that I would probably just hit OK and hope it stopped bothering me.  Expecting ordinary computer users to actually read something like that is INSANE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I strongly , strongly disagree with this .
The # 1 problem with errors is being too wordy , because you get an immediate " tl ; dr " response .
I 'm a computer programmer , and in all honesty if I were faced with a wall of text like that I would probably just hit OK and hope it stopped bothering me .
Expecting ordinary computer users to actually read something like that is INSANE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I strongly, strongly disagree with this.
The #1 problem with errors is being too wordy, because you get an immediate "tl;dr" response.
I'm a computer programmer, and in all honesty if I were faced with a wall of text like that I would probably just hit OK and hope it stopped bothering me.
Expecting ordinary computer users to actually read something like that is INSANE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319822</id>
	<title>Make them solve a simple math problem.</title>
	<author>ameline</author>
	<datestamp>1267472880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make them correctly solve a simple math problem in order to enable the "OK" button.

My favorite is the captcha from the Moscow institute of physics and technology;
<a href="http://lib.mipt.ru/?spage=reg\_user" title="lib.mipt.ru">http://lib.mipt.ru/?spage=reg\_user</a> [lib.mipt.ru]

</p><p>You have to determine the total resistance of a very simple resistor network (a wheatstone bridge). Sounds easy, right? Better dust off your knowlege of Kirchoff's law.

</p><p>Several solutions can be found here; <a href="http://yaroslavvb.blogspot.com/2008/01/russian-captcha-revisited.html" title="blogspot.com">http://yaroslavvb.blogspot.com/2008/01/russian-captcha-revisited.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make them correctly solve a simple math problem in order to enable the " OK " button .
My favorite is the captcha from the Moscow institute of physics and technology ; http : //lib.mipt.ru/ ? spage = reg \ _user [ lib.mipt.ru ] You have to determine the total resistance of a very simple resistor network ( a wheatstone bridge ) .
Sounds easy , right ?
Better dust off your knowlege of Kirchoff 's law .
Several solutions can be found here ; http : //yaroslavvb.blogspot.com/2008/01/russian-captcha-revisited.html [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make them correctly solve a simple math problem in order to enable the "OK" button.
My favorite is the captcha from the Moscow institute of physics and technology;
http://lib.mipt.ru/?spage=reg\_user [lib.mipt.ru]

You have to determine the total resistance of a very simple resistor network (a wheatstone bridge).
Sounds easy, right?
Better dust off your knowlege of Kirchoff's law.
Several solutions can be found here; http://yaroslavvb.blogspot.com/2008/01/russian-captcha-revisited.html [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316004</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget, there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid. The former is just not knowing something, the latter is not wanting to know.</p><p>I'll let you guess which one is worse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget , there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid .
The former is just not knowing something , the latter is not wanting to know.I 'll let you guess which one is worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget, there is a big difference between ignorant and stupid.
The former is just not knowing something, the latter is not wanting to know.I'll let you guess which one is worse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31328168</id>
	<title>Re:Use Humor</title>
	<author>pinkushun</author>
	<datestamp>1267531920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great story, thoroughly enjoyed that one!  Let's see what's next.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great story , thoroughly enjoyed that one !
Let 's see what 's next .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great story, thoroughly enjoyed that one!
Let's see what's next.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316244</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>candl</author>
	<datestamp>1267459440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost."</p><p>Going along with this comments's logic and the quote from the original post, I've found that users can be trained to hit the print screen button when they get a message they don't care about.  We've got Printscreen 2000 installed all over the place, which makes it much closer to a one-click solution than the Windows default.  They get a screenshot and keep doing what they're doing.  I get the error message.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens , they 're completely lost .
" Going along with this comments 's logic and the quote from the original post , I 've found that users can be trained to hit the print screen button when they get a message they do n't care about .
We 've got Printscreen 2000 installed all over the place , which makes it much closer to a one-click solution than the Windows default .
They get a screenshot and keep doing what they 're doing .
I get the error message .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.
"Going along with this comments's logic and the quote from the original post, I've found that users can be trained to hit the print screen button when they get a message they don't care about.
We've got Printscreen 2000 installed all over the place, which makes it much closer to a one-click solution than the Windows default.
They get a screenshot and keep doing what they're doing.
I get the error message.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317050</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>token0</author>
	<datestamp>1267462440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They're going to see the scary number, click "Ignore error", retry and tell you that there was some error... something about 'technical support'...
If you ask them to retry and note the scary number, they won't understand the purpose.
Even if they read it, they'll only remember that their "file system is damaged", thinking about buying a new computer.
I'm serious, I had similar experiences.
Your approach may be good for more advanced users (who had contact with 'security permissions' and 'file systems'), but I believe it's not worth the effort to maintain such messages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're going to see the scary number , click " Ignore error " , retry and tell you that there was some error... something about 'technical support'.. . If you ask them to retry and note the scary number , they wo n't understand the purpose .
Even if they read it , they 'll only remember that their " file system is damaged " , thinking about buying a new computer .
I 'm serious , I had similar experiences .
Your approach may be good for more advanced users ( who had contact with 'security permissions ' and 'file systems ' ) , but I believe it 's not worth the effort to maintain such messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're going to see the scary number, click "Ignore error", retry and tell you that there was some error... something about 'technical support'...
If you ask them to retry and note the scary number, they won't understand the purpose.
Even if they read it, they'll only remember that their "file system is damaged", thinking about buying a new computer.
I'm serious, I had similar experiences.
Your approach may be good for more advanced users (who had contact with 'security permissions' and 'file systems'), but I believe it's not worth the effort to maintain such messages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321646</id>
	<title>Would you like crackers with that?</title>
	<author>unixguy43</author>
	<datestamp>1267436580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From my experience, users tend to ignore what the consider to be "normal" error messages.  Unless something strange and abnormal comes up, they generally will ignore the message.</p><p>Case in point- while managing a school computer lab, we decided to have some fun after listening to an all night marathon of Monty Python CD's containing, amongst others, the "cheese" sketch.  We had located the command codes to send signals to the network attached HP printer, allowing us to change the default display message on the printer.  Nobody noticed that the printer was out of paper, when it really was, but 5 people within 10 minutes noticed that the printer was "Out of Cheese" when there was really no problem with it.</p><p>Put any of the standard error codes on the panel, and nothing is noticed.  Tell a user something unbelievable and weird, and they'll pay attention to it.</p><p>Of course the puzzled look that users will give you when you tell them that the printer works much better without cheese is absolutely priceless too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From my experience , users tend to ignore what the consider to be " normal " error messages .
Unless something strange and abnormal comes up , they generally will ignore the message.Case in point- while managing a school computer lab , we decided to have some fun after listening to an all night marathon of Monty Python CD 's containing , amongst others , the " cheese " sketch .
We had located the command codes to send signals to the network attached HP printer , allowing us to change the default display message on the printer .
Nobody noticed that the printer was out of paper , when it really was , but 5 people within 10 minutes noticed that the printer was " Out of Cheese " when there was really no problem with it.Put any of the standard error codes on the panel , and nothing is noticed .
Tell a user something unbelievable and weird , and they 'll pay attention to it.Of course the puzzled look that users will give you when you tell them that the printer works much better without cheese is absolutely priceless too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From my experience, users tend to ignore what the consider to be "normal" error messages.
Unless something strange and abnormal comes up, they generally will ignore the message.Case in point- while managing a school computer lab, we decided to have some fun after listening to an all night marathon of Monty Python CD's containing, amongst others, the "cheese" sketch.
We had located the command codes to send signals to the network attached HP printer, allowing us to change the default display message on the printer.
Nobody noticed that the printer was out of paper, when it really was, but 5 people within 10 minutes noticed that the printer was "Out of Cheese" when there was really no problem with it.Put any of the standard error codes on the panel, and nothing is noticed.
Tell a user something unbelievable and weird, and they'll pay attention to it.Of course the puzzled look that users will give you when you tell them that the printer works much better without cheese is absolutely priceless too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322108</id>
	<title>Get them to read instructions in the first place?</title>
	<author>SoundGuyNoise</author>
	<datestamp>1267438260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The instructions on the website I support are spelled out in sequential steps:<br>
1. Enter info<br>
2. Click button A<br>
3. Repeat 1-2 as needed<br>
4. Click button B<br> <br>

Or when given a page of several items to fill out, why oh why do they always start at the bottom and wonder why it didn't work?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The instructions on the website I support are spelled out in sequential steps : 1 .
Enter info 2 .
Click button A 3 .
Repeat 1-2 as needed 4 .
Click button B Or when given a page of several items to fill out , why oh why do they always start at the bottom and wonder why it did n't work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The instructions on the website I support are spelled out in sequential steps:
1.
Enter info
2.
Click button A
3.
Repeat 1-2 as needed
4.
Click button B 

Or when given a page of several items to fill out, why oh why do they always start at the bottom and wonder why it didn't work?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319204</id>
	<title>PSR.exe on Windows 7</title>
	<author>jamesyouwish</author>
	<datestamp>1267470600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I your end users are running windows 7 check out psr.exe.  I records what they do with screen shots each step of the way.  Now if it could only tell me what PEBKAC is?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I your end users are running windows 7 check out psr.exe .
I records what they do with screen shots each step of the way .
Now if it could only tell me what PEBKAC is ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I your end users are running windows 7 check out psr.exe.
I records what they do with screen shots each step of the way.
Now if it could only tell me what PEBKAC is?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317992</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1267466040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's really the problem. You have to make some intelligent decisions about what's worthy of bugging the user about and what isn't. Obnoxious behaviors like MS' loud beep whenever it fails to do something just make users hate you for bothering them all the more. Worse it reinforces the sense that the programmers and engineers don't know what they're doing and that the software is crap.<br> <br>

Unless there's something that the user can do about it, there's no reason why the pop ups should annoy or harass them, simply make them show up until say 5 seconds after they show any signs of life at all via keyboard or mouse. Additionally there should be a convenient place to look for logs of such information like on *Nix often times you don't know that you should've read the message until after you've reflexively clicked it out of existence or sometimes a few days later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's really the problem .
You have to make some intelligent decisions about what 's worthy of bugging the user about and what is n't .
Obnoxious behaviors like MS ' loud beep whenever it fails to do something just make users hate you for bothering them all the more .
Worse it reinforces the sense that the programmers and engineers do n't know what they 're doing and that the software is crap .
Unless there 's something that the user can do about it , there 's no reason why the pop ups should annoy or harass them , simply make them show up until say 5 seconds after they show any signs of life at all via keyboard or mouse .
Additionally there should be a convenient place to look for logs of such information like on * Nix often times you do n't know that you should 've read the message until after you 've reflexively clicked it out of existence or sometimes a few days later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's really the problem.
You have to make some intelligent decisions about what's worthy of bugging the user about and what isn't.
Obnoxious behaviors like MS' loud beep whenever it fails to do something just make users hate you for bothering them all the more.
Worse it reinforces the sense that the programmers and engineers don't know what they're doing and that the software is crap.
Unless there's something that the user can do about it, there's no reason why the pop ups should annoy or harass them, simply make them show up until say 5 seconds after they show any signs of life at all via keyboard or mouse.
Additionally there should be a convenient place to look for logs of such information like on *Nix often times you don't know that you should've read the message until after you've reflexively clicked it out of existence or sometimes a few days later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315268</id>
	<title>Make others remember</title>
	<author>cerberusss</author>
	<datestamp>1267456080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error</p></div><p>You're going about this the wrong way. You don't make the user remember, you make <i>their colleagues</i> remember. Supply your users with a 5.1 sound system attached to their PC and when the user encounters an error, the speakers blast "HEY EVERYBODY, I'M WATCHING PORNO OVER HERE".</p><p>As I said, make it a memorable experience.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses , for example , playing a unique sound with the errorYou 're going about this the wrong way .
You do n't make the user remember , you make their colleagues remember .
Supply your users with a 5.1 sound system attached to their PC and when the user encounters an error , the speakers blast " HEY EVERYBODY , I 'M WATCHING PORNO OVER HERE " .As I said , make it a memorable experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the errorYou're going about this the wrong way.
You don't make the user remember, you make their colleagues remember.
Supply your users with a 5.1 sound system attached to their PC and when the user encounters an error, the speakers blast "HEY EVERYBODY, I'M WATCHING PORNO OVER HERE".As I said, make it a memorable experience.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316094</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>ArsenneLupin</author>
	<datestamp>1267458960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing.</p></div><p>It would have saved you some aggravation, if, in addition to displaying the message to the user, it would have logged in on the server. That way, you could have figured out what went on without relying on the user.</p><p>
Still doesn't excuse the luser of course.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net .
Our product needed that information for some processing.It would have saved you some aggravation , if , in addition to displaying the message to the user , it would have logged in on the server .
That way , you could have figured out what went on without relying on the user .
Still does n't excuse the luser of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.
Our product needed that information for some processing.It would have saved you some aggravation, if, in addition to displaying the message to the user, it would have logged in on the server.
That way, you could have figured out what went on without relying on the user.
Still doesn't excuse the luser of course.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31325528</id>
	<title>Good luck</title>
	<author>xenocide2</author>
	<datestamp>1267456680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We can't get developers to pay attention to compiler warnings, what makes you think users are going to fare better?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't get developers to pay attention to compiler warnings , what makes you think users are going to fare better ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't get developers to pay attention to compiler warnings, what makes you think users are going to fare better?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31327662</id>
	<title>try writing readable error messages</title>
	<author>mangodhamma</author>
	<datestamp>1267524960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's clear from scanning a good portion of the replies that the first obstacle is the utter contempt in which many Help Desk jockeys seem to hold the average user. Sorry guys (and it's always guys) but I bought a computer to do stuff with not to be a code monkey. When I get an error message like Error: No default for  Main.CNode at 13:1-13:29.(Id 219,[(Id 200,Id 249)])it's clear the intended audience was not me.

When I do get an error message in something that resembles English, I try to figure it out, I go read the FAQs, I try a forum or two, I thrash around and believe it or not I sometimes manage to sort out the problem.

You have had some sensible suggestions from slashdotters like snspdaard, codehog, geoffrey.landis and gestalt n pepper. Try putting the crude humor aside and pay attention. Believe it or not there are a few users out here who do know what a power cable is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's clear from scanning a good portion of the replies that the first obstacle is the utter contempt in which many Help Desk jockeys seem to hold the average user .
Sorry guys ( and it 's always guys ) but I bought a computer to do stuff with not to be a code monkey .
When I get an error message like Error : No default for Main.CNode at 13 : 1-13 : 29 .
( Id 219 , [ ( Id 200,Id 249 ) ] ) it 's clear the intended audience was not me .
When I do get an error message in something that resembles English , I try to figure it out , I go read the FAQs , I try a forum or two , I thrash around and believe it or not I sometimes manage to sort out the problem .
You have had some sensible suggestions from slashdotters like snspdaard , codehog , geoffrey.landis and gestalt n pepper .
Try putting the crude humor aside and pay attention .
Believe it or not there are a few users out here who do know what a power cable is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's clear from scanning a good portion of the replies that the first obstacle is the utter contempt in which many Help Desk jockeys seem to hold the average user.
Sorry guys (and it's always guys) but I bought a computer to do stuff with not to be a code monkey.
When I get an error message like Error: No default for  Main.CNode at 13:1-13:29.
(Id 219,[(Id 200,Id 249)])it's clear the intended audience was not me.
When I do get an error message in something that resembles English, I try to figure it out, I go read the FAQs, I try a forum or two, I thrash around and believe it or not I sometimes manage to sort out the problem.
You have had some sensible suggestions from slashdotters like snspdaard, codehog, geoffrey.landis and gestalt n pepper.
Try putting the crude humor aside and pay attention.
Believe it or not there are a few users out here who do know what a power cable is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315964</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1267458600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/" title="thinkgeek.com">My work shirt</a> [thinkgeek.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>My work shirt [ thinkgeek.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My work shirt [thinkgeek.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319220</id>
	<title>It depends on where your software is deployed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267470660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The best way that I've ever found to support users with error messages is to make sure that I can be aware of them as soon as they happen.  This was easy to implement in many corporate applications that I've built, as I simply built an error management object (in VB6...I'm old) that would log all error messages in one of three ways depending on the capability that the system was left in when the error happened. <br> <br>The first level was logging to a database table that was used by the application.  I had a separate application that would poll that table and alert me whenever an error record was added.  It blew the socks off users when I would call them within moments of the error telling them that I was working the issue. (BIG win for our IT department).  In cases where the database connection or capability was gone the error management object would send me an email with all of the appropriate information.  The last resort was creating a log file entry on the user's local drive.<br> <br>In all but the third level of managing errors I was empowered to be aware and proactive in my response to users and I didn't have to resort to the 'puppy error message'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The best way that I 've ever found to support users with error messages is to make sure that I can be aware of them as soon as they happen .
This was easy to implement in many corporate applications that I 've built , as I simply built an error management object ( in VB6...I 'm old ) that would log all error messages in one of three ways depending on the capability that the system was left in when the error happened .
The first level was logging to a database table that was used by the application .
I had a separate application that would poll that table and alert me whenever an error record was added .
It blew the socks off users when I would call them within moments of the error telling them that I was working the issue .
( BIG win for our IT department ) .
In cases where the database connection or capability was gone the error management object would send me an email with all of the appropriate information .
The last resort was creating a log file entry on the user 's local drive .
In all but the third level of managing errors I was empowered to be aware and proactive in my response to users and I did n't have to resort to the 'puppy error message' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best way that I've ever found to support users with error messages is to make sure that I can be aware of them as soon as they happen.
This was easy to implement in many corporate applications that I've built, as I simply built an error management object (in VB6...I'm old) that would log all error messages in one of three ways depending on the capability that the system was left in when the error happened.
The first level was logging to a database table that was used by the application.
I had a separate application that would poll that table and alert me whenever an error record was added.
It blew the socks off users when I would call them within moments of the error telling them that I was working the issue.
(BIG win for our IT department).
In cases where the database connection or capability was gone the error management object would send me an email with all of the appropriate information.
The last resort was creating a log file entry on the user's local drive.
In all but the third level of managing errors I was empowered to be aware and proactive in my response to users and I didn't have to resort to the 'puppy error message'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31330372</id>
	<title>Unique Sound?</title>
	<author>donak</author>
	<datestamp>1267547820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error."</i></p><p>Of course it would be possible:</p><p>"STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD, TOUCH NOTHING<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I'M WARNING YOU, THIS THING IS LOADED!"</p><p>should do the job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses , for example , playing a unique sound with the error .
" Of course it would be possible : " STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD , TOUCH NOTHING ... I 'M WARNING YOU , THIS THING IS LOADED !
" should do the job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I've even wondered if it would be possible to expand that to cover the other senses, for example, playing a unique sound with the error.
"Of course it would be possible:"STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD, TOUCH NOTHING ... I'M WARNING YOU, THIS THING IS LOADED!
"should do the job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317816</id>
	<title>Agreed, but 1-click is not the only thing needed</title>
	<author>einhverfr</author>
	<datestamp>1267465380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's face it.  Most of the desktop users this guy is supporting are not comfortable with computers.  They tone out technical jargon and are not going to remember something they can't understand.  The other part is that error messages should be understandable and in plain English, and the plain English meaning should be what you want to communicate.</p><p>For example, "uninitialized data" just isn't meaningful to most users.  Call it "Required input not provided."</p><p>On the other hand, "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" will be misunderstood as "You did something BAD and we're calling the cops to shut you down!"  For all my ranting against Microsoft, they did learn from this, probably because of so many people calling for tech support asking if the police were being summoned.  Now they say "this program has encountered a problem and needs to close."  Much more friendly on the tech support people.</p><p>In this spirit, the logos are not a bad idea.  However, getting understandable error messages should be an important goal also because the user may be more empowered to figure out what they did wrong if it is caused by them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's face it .
Most of the desktop users this guy is supporting are not comfortable with computers .
They tone out technical jargon and are not going to remember something they ca n't understand .
The other part is that error messages should be understandable and in plain English , and the plain English meaning should be what you want to communicate.For example , " uninitialized data " just is n't meaningful to most users .
Call it " Required input not provided .
" On the other hand , " This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down " will be misunderstood as " You did something BAD and we 're calling the cops to shut you down !
" For all my ranting against Microsoft , they did learn from this , probably because of so many people calling for tech support asking if the police were being summoned .
Now they say " this program has encountered a problem and needs to close .
" Much more friendly on the tech support people.In this spirit , the logos are not a bad idea .
However , getting understandable error messages should be an important goal also because the user may be more empowered to figure out what they did wrong if it is caused by them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's face it.
Most of the desktop users this guy is supporting are not comfortable with computers.
They tone out technical jargon and are not going to remember something they can't understand.
The other part is that error messages should be understandable and in plain English, and the plain English meaning should be what you want to communicate.For example, "uninitialized data" just isn't meaningful to most users.
Call it "Required input not provided.
"On the other hand, "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" will be misunderstood as "You did something BAD and we're calling the cops to shut you down!
"  For all my ranting against Microsoft, they did learn from this, probably because of so many people calling for tech support asking if the police were being summoned.
Now they say "this program has encountered a problem and needs to close.
"  Much more friendly on the tech support people.In this spirit, the logos are not a bad idea.
However, getting understandable error messages should be an important goal also because the user may be more empowered to figure out what they did wrong if it is caused by them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</id>
	<title>If clicking the OK box makes the error go away...</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not an error.  Errors prevent you from continuing.  The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem.  That is solved by the user clicking "OK".  <br> <br>
The entire way errors are handled is wrong.  I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not an error .
Errors prevent you from continuing .
The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there 's a problem .
That is solved by the user clicking " OK " .
The entire way errors are handled is wrong .
I do n't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it 's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not an error.
Errors prevent you from continuing.
The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem.
That is solved by the user clicking "OK".
The entire way errors are handled is wrong.
I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316590</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1267460880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Your drive is full. Do yo want me to
<br>[Delete C:/My Documents/Porn and try again] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just reformat the drive to make more room]

</p><p>
Unable to save file goat.se - unknown file type.
<br>
[Save as] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - pick the name of an existing file at random and overwrite it]
</p><p>
Warning: This will reformat your hard drive. Are you sure?
<br>[Yes] [No] [I don't read error messages - just do it]

</p><p>
Unable to connect to remote server
<br>[Retry] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just fake it by showing me random crap from my local filesystem]

</p><p>
Incomplete file transfer.
<br>
[Save] [Delete] [Retry] [Quit] [I don't read error messages - pick an option at random]

</p><p>
A file by that name already exists.
<br>[Overwrite] [Rename] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - hose my old file]

</p><p>
Your battery is low.
<br>
[Save and quit] [Quit without saving] [Suspend to disk] [I don't read error messages - never warn me again, EVER]

</p><p>
And the best one:
<br>
<b>New updates have been installed.
<br>[Reboot new] [Reboot later] [Reboot now even though I clicked on Reboot later]</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable .
If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed .
Your drive is full .
Do yo want me to [ Delete C : /My Documents/Porn and try again ] [ Cancel ] [ I do n't read error messages - just reformat the drive to make more room ] Unable to save file goat.se - unknown file type .
[ Save as ] [ Cancel ] [ I do n't read error messages - pick the name of an existing file at random and overwrite it ] Warning : This will reformat your hard drive .
Are you sure ?
[ Yes ] [ No ] [ I do n't read error messages - just do it ] Unable to connect to remote server [ Retry ] [ Cancel ] [ I do n't read error messages - just fake it by showing me random crap from my local filesystem ] Incomplete file transfer .
[ Save ] [ Delete ] [ Retry ] [ Quit ] [ I do n't read error messages - pick an option at random ] A file by that name already exists .
[ Overwrite ] [ Rename ] [ Cancel ] [ I do n't read error messages - hose my old file ] Your battery is low .
[ Save and quit ] [ Quit without saving ] [ Suspend to disk ] [ I do n't read error messages - never warn me again , EVER ] And the best one : New updates have been installed .
[ Reboot new ] [ Reboot later ] [ Reboot now even though I clicked on Reboot later ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.
If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.
Your drive is full.
Do yo want me to
[Delete C:/My Documents/Porn and try again] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just reformat the drive to make more room]


Unable to save file goat.se - unknown file type.
[Save as] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - pick the name of an existing file at random and overwrite it]

Warning: This will reformat your hard drive.
Are you sure?
[Yes] [No] [I don't read error messages - just do it]


Unable to connect to remote server
[Retry] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - just fake it by showing me random crap from my local filesystem]


Incomplete file transfer.
[Save] [Delete] [Retry] [Quit] [I don't read error messages - pick an option at random]


A file by that name already exists.
[Overwrite] [Rename] [Cancel] [I don't read error messages - hose my old file]


Your battery is low.
[Save and quit] [Quit without saving] [Suspend to disk] [I don't read error messages - never warn me again, EVER]


And the best one:

New updates have been installed.
[Reboot new] [Reboot later] [Reboot now even though I clicked on Reboot later]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320006</id>
	<title>Re:They have no vested interest in the outcome.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267473600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's not my problem if it works right or not.</i></p><p>It is if you don't get paid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not my problem if it works right or not.It is if you do n't get paid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not my problem if it works right or not.It is if you don't get paid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316012</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1267458720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div><p>Yup, I've several times toyed with the idea of using random labels and placements for the [Yes] [No] [Maybe] [Dismiss] [Fail] [Retry] [Abort] buttons on my user interfaces, just to make sure they don't clic on the lower-right button without reading anything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux errors are usually more useful , descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window , you have to be more careful .
; - ) Yup , I 've several times toyed with the idea of using random labels and placements for the [ Yes ] [ No ] [ Maybe ] [ Dismiss ] [ Fail ] [ Retry ] [ Abort ] buttons on my user interfaces , just to make sure they do n't clic on the lower-right button without reading anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.
;-)Yup, I've several times toyed with the idea of using random labels and placements for the [Yes] [No] [Maybe] [Dismiss] [Fail] [Retry] [Abort] buttons on my user interfaces, just to make sure they don't clic on the lower-right button without reading anything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323284</id>
	<title>Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef</title>
	<author>einhverfr</author>
	<datestamp>1267442640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your restaurant performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.  (Health department officials on their way....)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your restaurant performed an illegal operation and will be shut down .
( Health department officials on their way.... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your restaurant performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
(Health department officials on their way....)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321124</id>
	<title>Users Don't Follow Directions - NOT A Cop-Out</title>
	<author>Isarian</author>
	<datestamp>1267434780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a lot of respect for computer users who get thrown in with software that sports poorly written error messages and excessive numbers of confirmation-required dialogs, forcing them to learn to just "click past" to get their work done. I respect these people when they understand to call tech support and follow directions as they are clearly provided.</p><p>I have no respect for computer users who refuse to follow clearly provided directions and then blame tech support. True story:</p><p>Me: Okay, in this command prompt we opened up I need you to type "ipconfig", spelled like "India", "Papa", "Charlie"... then hit "Enter" on the keyboard.<br>Him: Okay, I typed that in but it just says "not recognized as a valid internal or external command"<br>Me: Can you read back to me what you typed in before hitting "Enter"?<br>Him, Angry: I don't get it, I typed "I" then a space, and then "Configure" just like you told me to!</p><p>Or...</p><p>Me: Okay, in the lower-left hand pane of the window there is a Log Pane that shows the error message I need to assist you. What does it say?<br>Him: I don't know what you're talking about, there's no error in the lower-right hand part of the screen!<br>Me: No sir, I need you to look in the lower-left hand part of the screen - what error does it say?<br>Him: I'm telling you, there's no message, it just won't connect!<br>Me: Okay, in that case can you just read off the last line of text in the lower-left hand corner of the screen?<br>Him: It says "Error, could not open SFTP connection on port 22, connection timed out..."</p><p>There are shitty tech support people out there who give vague directions and then get pissed at their users because they can't magically extrapolate details or directions. I despise these people because they give decent support techs a bad name. However, I submit we'd have a lot fewer pissed off/burnt out support techs if more computer users were able to follow basic directions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a lot of respect for computer users who get thrown in with software that sports poorly written error messages and excessive numbers of confirmation-required dialogs , forcing them to learn to just " click past " to get their work done .
I respect these people when they understand to call tech support and follow directions as they are clearly provided.I have no respect for computer users who refuse to follow clearly provided directions and then blame tech support .
True story : Me : Okay , in this command prompt we opened up I need you to type " ipconfig " , spelled like " India " , " Papa " , " Charlie " ... then hit " Enter " on the keyboard.Him : Okay , I typed that in but it just says " not recognized as a valid internal or external command " Me : Can you read back to me what you typed in before hitting " Enter " ? Him , Angry : I do n't get it , I typed " I " then a space , and then " Configure " just like you told me to ! Or...Me : Okay , in the lower-left hand pane of the window there is a Log Pane that shows the error message I need to assist you .
What does it say ? Him : I do n't know what you 're talking about , there 's no error in the lower-right hand part of the screen ! Me : No sir , I need you to look in the lower-left hand part of the screen - what error does it say ? Him : I 'm telling you , there 's no message , it just wo n't connect ! Me : Okay , in that case can you just read off the last line of text in the lower-left hand corner of the screen ? Him : It says " Error , could not open SFTP connection on port 22 , connection timed out... " There are shitty tech support people out there who give vague directions and then get pissed at their users because they ca n't magically extrapolate details or directions .
I despise these people because they give decent support techs a bad name .
However , I submit we 'd have a lot fewer pissed off/burnt out support techs if more computer users were able to follow basic directions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a lot of respect for computer users who get thrown in with software that sports poorly written error messages and excessive numbers of confirmation-required dialogs, forcing them to learn to just "click past" to get their work done.
I respect these people when they understand to call tech support and follow directions as they are clearly provided.I have no respect for computer users who refuse to follow clearly provided directions and then blame tech support.
True story:Me: Okay, in this command prompt we opened up I need you to type "ipconfig", spelled like "India", "Papa", "Charlie"... then hit "Enter" on the keyboard.Him: Okay, I typed that in but it just says "not recognized as a valid internal or external command"Me: Can you read back to me what you typed in before hitting "Enter"?Him, Angry: I don't get it, I typed "I" then a space, and then "Configure" just like you told me to!Or...Me: Okay, in the lower-left hand pane of the window there is a Log Pane that shows the error message I need to assist you.
What does it say?Him: I don't know what you're talking about, there's no error in the lower-right hand part of the screen!Me: No sir, I need you to look in the lower-left hand part of the screen - what error does it say?Him: I'm telling you, there's no message, it just won't connect!Me: Okay, in that case can you just read off the last line of text in the lower-left hand corner of the screen?Him: It says "Error, could not open SFTP connection on port 22, connection timed out..."There are shitty tech support people out there who give vague directions and then get pissed at their users because they can't magically extrapolate details or directions.
I despise these people because they give decent support techs a bad name.
However, I submit we'd have a lot fewer pissed off/burnt out support techs if more computer users were able to follow basic directions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318212</id>
	<title>Re:Make error messages that are useful</title>
	<author>Quirkz</author>
	<datestamp>1267466700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've suffered through something similar to your second case. There's a bulletin board software out there which doesn't support certain characters in the password. Such as the @ character. Thing is, it TAKES your password just fine. Then it throws out the characters it doesn't like. Your real password is what's left over. I don't even remember what it took to give me the intuitive leap to try typing the password without the @ to see what would happen, but then it let me log in and use the board. Think I reinstalled the software twice first, though. Talk about a waste of time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've suffered through something similar to your second case .
There 's a bulletin board software out there which does n't support certain characters in the password .
Such as the @ character .
Thing is , it TAKES your password just fine .
Then it throws out the characters it does n't like .
Your real password is what 's left over .
I do n't even remember what it took to give me the intuitive leap to try typing the password without the @ to see what would happen , but then it let me log in and use the board .
Think I reinstalled the software twice first , though .
Talk about a waste of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've suffered through something similar to your second case.
There's a bulletin board software out there which doesn't support certain characters in the password.
Such as the @ character.
Thing is, it TAKES your password just fine.
Then it throws out the characters it doesn't like.
Your real password is what's left over.
I don't even remember what it took to give me the intuitive leap to try typing the password without the @ to see what would happen, but then it let me log in and use the board.
Think I reinstalled the software twice first, though.
Talk about a waste of time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319082</id>
	<title>Some people refuse to read</title>
	<author>adipocere</author>
	<datestamp>1267470060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's that simple.  A core percentage of your users simply refuse to read what is in front of them.  They skim, they look for only the things they expect, and absolutely nothing else.  They're basically running the visual equivalent of an Expect script, responding to a prompt in a way which may or may not be appropriate.</p><p>I'll give an example.  I had a password reset program which, of course, required an email address specific to our users.  However, there was a possibility that users would use a different email address that wasn't valid.  No, I had no access to that list of addresses to match and verify, that was simply out.  Instructions were provided on the page as to which kinds of email addresses were allowed, and which were not.  Of course users ignore instructions, as we all know.  They see "email address" and they begin typing.  Instructions could be on the top, on the bottom, or right before that row -- it didn't matter.  This happened about 45\% of the time.  Okay, half of our users read directions, yay.</p><p>So I added something which would detect the wrong type, I could at least do that much, and tell them, via a nice, big Javascript window you had to click to make go away, that they used the wrong kind, and here is what the right kind looked like.  What kind of drastic reduction in errors did I see?</p><p>95\%?  No.<br>80\%?  Such an optimist!<br>50\%?  Ha!</p><p>Only thirty percent of my users, presented with a HEY IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE USING THE WRONG EMAIL ADDRESS HERE IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE kind of prompt, right in their face, changed their behavior.  It was big!  It was colored!  It covered the form until you made it go away. The rest kept doing it the wrong way.  Sometimes several times in a row (I watched the logs).  I could see them return a month later to reset their password, which they had forgotten, and make the same mistakes.  They will not remember more than a few minutes ago, they will not read instructions, and they will not respond to error messages.  They will not remember error messages they see.</p><p>Once you accept the existence of this core group and realize that you can do nothing to help them besides providing hopefully appropriate environmental prompts, the rest explains itself.  Do not waste time trying to solve the problems with this group.  If you carefully watch their behavior on other systems, they experience identical problems wherever they may go.  They exist in a perpetual struggle with computers, thrashing like a goldfish thrashing in a corner of an aquarium.  Feel sorry for them if you must, design around them if you can, but you cannot change their behavior for them, only provide a padded environment where they cannot hurt themselves too much and can hopefully mouth soft objects with rounded corners.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's that simple .
A core percentage of your users simply refuse to read what is in front of them .
They skim , they look for only the things they expect , and absolutely nothing else .
They 're basically running the visual equivalent of an Expect script , responding to a prompt in a way which may or may not be appropriate.I 'll give an example .
I had a password reset program which , of course , required an email address specific to our users .
However , there was a possibility that users would use a different email address that was n't valid .
No , I had no access to that list of addresses to match and verify , that was simply out .
Instructions were provided on the page as to which kinds of email addresses were allowed , and which were not .
Of course users ignore instructions , as we all know .
They see " email address " and they begin typing .
Instructions could be on the top , on the bottom , or right before that row -- it did n't matter .
This happened about 45 \ % of the time .
Okay , half of our users read directions , yay.So I added something which would detect the wrong type , I could at least do that much , and tell them , via a nice , big Javascript window you had to click to make go away , that they used the wrong kind , and here is what the right kind looked like .
What kind of drastic reduction in errors did I see ? 95 \ % ?
No.80 \ % ? Such an optimist ! 50 \ % ?
Ha ! Only thirty percent of my users , presented with a HEY IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE USING THE WRONG EMAIL ADDRESS HERE IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE kind of prompt , right in their face , changed their behavior .
It was big !
It was colored !
It covered the form until you made it go away .
The rest kept doing it the wrong way .
Sometimes several times in a row ( I watched the logs ) .
I could see them return a month later to reset their password , which they had forgotten , and make the same mistakes .
They will not remember more than a few minutes ago , they will not read instructions , and they will not respond to error messages .
They will not remember error messages they see.Once you accept the existence of this core group and realize that you can do nothing to help them besides providing hopefully appropriate environmental prompts , the rest explains itself .
Do not waste time trying to solve the problems with this group .
If you carefully watch their behavior on other systems , they experience identical problems wherever they may go .
They exist in a perpetual struggle with computers , thrashing like a goldfish thrashing in a corner of an aquarium .
Feel sorry for them if you must , design around them if you can , but you can not change their behavior for them , only provide a padded environment where they can not hurt themselves too much and can hopefully mouth soft objects with rounded corners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's that simple.
A core percentage of your users simply refuse to read what is in front of them.
They skim, they look for only the things they expect, and absolutely nothing else.
They're basically running the visual equivalent of an Expect script, responding to a prompt in a way which may or may not be appropriate.I'll give an example.
I had a password reset program which, of course, required an email address specific to our users.
However, there was a possibility that users would use a different email address that wasn't valid.
No, I had no access to that list of addresses to match and verify, that was simply out.
Instructions were provided on the page as to which kinds of email addresses were allowed, and which were not.
Of course users ignore instructions, as we all know.
They see "email address" and they begin typing.
Instructions could be on the top, on the bottom, or right before that row -- it didn't matter.
This happened about 45\% of the time.
Okay, half of our users read directions, yay.So I added something which would detect the wrong type, I could at least do that much, and tell them, via a nice, big Javascript window you had to click to make go away, that they used the wrong kind, and here is what the right kind looked like.
What kind of drastic reduction in errors did I see?95\%?
No.80\%?  Such an optimist!50\%?
Ha!Only thirty percent of my users, presented with a HEY IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE USING THE WRONG EMAIL ADDRESS HERE IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE kind of prompt, right in their face, changed their behavior.
It was big!
It was colored!
It covered the form until you made it go away.
The rest kept doing it the wrong way.
Sometimes several times in a row (I watched the logs).
I could see them return a month later to reset their password, which they had forgotten, and make the same mistakes.
They will not remember more than a few minutes ago, they will not read instructions, and they will not respond to error messages.
They will not remember error messages they see.Once you accept the existence of this core group and realize that you can do nothing to help them besides providing hopefully appropriate environmental prompts, the rest explains itself.
Do not waste time trying to solve the problems with this group.
If you carefully watch their behavior on other systems, they experience identical problems wherever they may go.
They exist in a perpetual struggle with computers, thrashing like a goldfish thrashing in a corner of an aquarium.
Feel sorry for them if you must, design around them if you can, but you cannot change their behavior for them, only provide a padded environment where they cannot hurt themselves too much and can hopefully mouth soft objects with rounded corners.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315472</id>
	<title>Don't try to change user behaviour.</title>
	<author>Rennt</author>
	<datestamp>1267456860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Take a deep breath and remember that if users were savy enough to read and understand error messages - well, what would they need you for? You are there to make their jobs easier, not the other way around.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a deep breath and remember that if users were savy enough to read and understand error messages - well , what would they need you for ?
You are there to make their jobs easier , not the other way around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a deep breath and remember that if users were savy enough to read and understand error messages - well, what would they need you for?
You are there to make their jobs easier, not the other way around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316576</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>mwadams</author>
	<datestamp>1267460820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmmm. I couldn't even be bothered to read your example error message, in a thread about error messages. I'm deeply unconvinced that any user will do so.

Someone else had the right answer above - eliminate as many error messages as possible, ignoring likely transient problems (like network outages) until they become critical, and log them somewhere that an admin (or better still, power user) can see and read them when necessary. Alerting the admin or power user via SMS or email is also a good plan. Logging to a database and including stuff like IP address, error class, code etc. such that you can query the results and look for patterns is also a good idea. Those patterns can be used to help you determine what are transient or hardware problems, and what are problems with your UX (and what are bugs!)

Essentially, admit defeat on the error messages, and try to solve a different problem; how do we stop our software getting the way of our user's objectives.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm .
I could n't even be bothered to read your example error message , in a thread about error messages .
I 'm deeply unconvinced that any user will do so .
Someone else had the right answer above - eliminate as many error messages as possible , ignoring likely transient problems ( like network outages ) until they become critical , and log them somewhere that an admin ( or better still , power user ) can see and read them when necessary .
Alerting the admin or power user via SMS or email is also a good plan .
Logging to a database and including stuff like IP address , error class , code etc .
such that you can query the results and look for patterns is also a good idea .
Those patterns can be used to help you determine what are transient or hardware problems , and what are problems with your UX ( and what are bugs !
) Essentially , admit defeat on the error messages , and try to solve a different problem ; how do we stop our software getting the way of our user 's objectives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm.
I couldn't even be bothered to read your example error message, in a thread about error messages.
I'm deeply unconvinced that any user will do so.
Someone else had the right answer above - eliminate as many error messages as possible, ignoring likely transient problems (like network outages) until they become critical, and log them somewhere that an admin (or better still, power user) can see and read them when necessary.
Alerting the admin or power user via SMS or email is also a good plan.
Logging to a database and including stuff like IP address, error class, code etc.
such that you can query the results and look for patterns is also a good idea.
Those patterns can be used to help you determine what are transient or hardware problems, and what are problems with your UX (and what are bugs!
)

Essentially, admit defeat on the error messages, and try to solve a different problem; how do we stop our software getting the way of our user's objectives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317352</id>
	<title>Solution: Install monitoring s/w</title>
	<author>managerialslime</author>
	<datestamp>1267463580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of my users are either overwhelmed with multiple distractions or uncomfortable with technology or both.  In any case, my team is responsible for figuring out what triggered error conditions and getting them fixed regardless of user cooperation or contribution.</p><p>When users do not give detailed and accurate information about an error condition and what they were doing prior to the error condition, there are some creative options available.</p><p>The CNET.com download site has any number of screen monitoring products (i.e e-Surveiller, The Best Keylogger, Shadow Keylogger, Local Keylogger Pro, etc.) for recording and monitoring PC activity.  These products not only record keystrokes, but also provide screenshots and/or video.</p><p>For my users, I always let them know before installing such software and let them know that any performance impact will only be until we identify the error conditions and the activities that triggered the error conditions.  (We also notified all employees in the employee handbook that we do this and also have the employees re-sign their understanding of this every year.)</p><p>By using these tools, we can reduce problem-solving time and associated user frustration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of my users are either overwhelmed with multiple distractions or uncomfortable with technology or both .
In any case , my team is responsible for figuring out what triggered error conditions and getting them fixed regardless of user cooperation or contribution.When users do not give detailed and accurate information about an error condition and what they were doing prior to the error condition , there are some creative options available.The CNET.com download site has any number of screen monitoring products ( i.e e-Surveiller , The Best Keylogger , Shadow Keylogger , Local Keylogger Pro , etc .
) for recording and monitoring PC activity .
These products not only record keystrokes , but also provide screenshots and/or video.For my users , I always let them know before installing such software and let them know that any performance impact will only be until we identify the error conditions and the activities that triggered the error conditions .
( We also notified all employees in the employee handbook that we do this and also have the employees re-sign their understanding of this every year .
) By using these tools , we can reduce problem-solving time and associated user frustration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of my users are either overwhelmed with multiple distractions or uncomfortable with technology or both.
In any case, my team is responsible for figuring out what triggered error conditions and getting them fixed regardless of user cooperation or contribution.When users do not give detailed and accurate information about an error condition and what they were doing prior to the error condition, there are some creative options available.The CNET.com download site has any number of screen monitoring products (i.e e-Surveiller, The Best Keylogger, Shadow Keylogger, Local Keylogger Pro, etc.
) for recording and monitoring PC activity.
These products not only record keystrokes, but also provide screenshots and/or video.For my users, I always let them know before installing such software and let them know that any performance impact will only be until we identify the error conditions and the activities that triggered the error conditions.
(We also notified all employees in the employee handbook that we do this and also have the employees re-sign their understanding of this every year.
)By using these tools, we can reduce problem-solving time and associated user frustration.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316446</id>
	<title>True Story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A user phones up the helpdesk...</p><p>User: I just got an error message on my screen<br>Helpdesk: OK, what does the error message say?<br>User: I don't know I just clicked Cancel and it went away<br>Helpdesk: ???!<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A user phones up the helpdesk...User : I just got an error message on my screenHelpdesk : OK , what does the error message say ? User : I do n't know I just clicked Cancel and it went awayHelpdesk : ? ? ? !
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>A user phones up the helpdesk...User: I just got an error message on my screenHelpdesk: OK, what does the error message say?User: I don't know I just clicked Cancel and it went awayHelpdesk: ???!
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317544</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Murphy says that if you make a system fool proof, they'll just make a better fool.  Also, I can tell from your astounding grasp of four letter explitives that you're highly educated and certainly not at all boorish and uncouth.  Perhaps you should crawl back under a rock, little end user, and not show your ignorance at the adult table where all the programmers are talking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Murphy says that if you make a system fool proof , they 'll just make a better fool .
Also , I can tell from your astounding grasp of four letter explitives that you 're highly educated and certainly not at all boorish and uncouth .
Perhaps you should crawl back under a rock , little end user , and not show your ignorance at the adult table where all the programmers are talking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Murphy says that if you make a system fool proof, they'll just make a better fool.
Also, I can tell from your astounding grasp of four letter explitives that you're highly educated and certainly not at all boorish and uncouth.
Perhaps you should crawl back under a rock, little end user, and not show your ignorance at the adult table where all the programmers are talking.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318690</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>Cid Highwind</author>
	<datestamp>1267468440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Q: How do you get users to read error messages?<br>

A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?
</i> <br>
(+5, agree completely)
<br> <br>
Attention tortured support techs at $evil\_vendor: You know why I don't read the error messages in your app?  Because the "Could not save calibration file because an unknown frobnitz DB error occurred.  (Ok/Cancel)" looks almost exactly like the "Are you sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server? (Ok/Cancel)" and "Are you really really sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server?  Data will be overwritten! (Ok/Cancel)" messages that pop up every five minutes during normal use.  Clicking "Ok" to those messages becomes a reflex after using your app for a week.  Now, by the time I notice something didn't work the totally uninformative error text is already gone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Q : How do you get users to read error messages ?
A : How do you write error messages that are worth reading ?
( + 5 , agree completely ) Attention tortured support techs at $ evil \ _vendor : You know why I do n't read the error messages in your app ?
Because the " Could not save calibration file because an unknown frobnitz DB error occurred .
( Ok/Cancel ) " looks almost exactly like the " Are you sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server ?
( Ok/Cancel ) " and " Are you really really sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server ?
Data will be overwritten !
( Ok/Cancel ) " messages that pop up every five minutes during normal use .
Clicking " Ok " to those messages becomes a reflex after using your app for a week .
Now , by the time I notice something did n't work the totally uninformative error text is already gone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Q: How do you get users to read error messages?
A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?
(+5, agree completely)
 
Attention tortured support techs at $evil\_vendor: You know why I don't read the error messages in your app?
Because the "Could not save calibration file because an unknown frobnitz DB error occurred.
(Ok/Cancel)" looks almost exactly like the "Are you sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server?
(Ok/Cancel)" and "Are you really really sure you want to save the new calibration file to the frobnitz server?
Data will be overwritten!
(Ok/Cancel)" messages that pop up every five minutes during normal use.
Clicking "Ok" to those messages becomes a reflex after using your app for a week.
Now, by the time I notice something didn't work the totally uninformative error text is already gone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316210</id>
	<title>There's nothing you can do</title>
	<author>motorhead</author>
	<datestamp>1267459380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's drink!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's drink !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's drink!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318024</id>
	<title>Require feedback...</title>
	<author>Xiver</author>
	<datestamp>1267466160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just require some feedback from the user.  Such as "Please enter any 15 digit prime number to continue:".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just require some feedback from the user .
Such as " Please enter any 15 digit prime number to continue : " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just require some feedback from the user.
Such as "Please enter any 15 digit prime number to continue:".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315560</id>
	<title>the solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Put the error message in a popup window with a background random pic from Sport Illustrated swimsuit edition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Put the error message in a popup window with a background random pic from Sport Illustrated swimsuit edition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put the error message in a popup window with a background random pic from Sport Illustrated swimsuit edition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315782</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>The MAZZTer</author>
	<datestamp>1267458060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sweet, as long as we're getting rid of errors lets get rid of bugs too!  Problem solved!</p><p>Seriously, there are those of us where a little error message can go a long way to help us figure out a problem without needing to call up Tech Support.  Not to mention if you just close a program every time there's a fatal error it's just going to look even worse than if you pop up an error message to notify the user there is a problem.</p><p>Getting rid of non-fatal error messages that don't stop an operation from completing--sure, though I wouldn't kill them completely, tuck them out of the way somewhere so a user like me who still cares can see them (example: IE/Chrome/Firefox info bars).  But anything that forces the action the user is trying to do to abort or kills the program needs to let the user know what's going on at least, even if it's "The operation could not be completed, call Tech Support for help." and more technical users know there's a log file they can check to try to fix it themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sweet , as long as we 're getting rid of errors lets get rid of bugs too !
Problem solved ! Seriously , there are those of us where a little error message can go a long way to help us figure out a problem without needing to call up Tech Support .
Not to mention if you just close a program every time there 's a fatal error it 's just going to look even worse than if you pop up an error message to notify the user there is a problem.Getting rid of non-fatal error messages that do n't stop an operation from completing--sure , though I would n't kill them completely , tuck them out of the way somewhere so a user like me who still cares can see them ( example : IE/Chrome/Firefox info bars ) .
But anything that forces the action the user is trying to do to abort or kills the program needs to let the user know what 's going on at least , even if it 's " The operation could not be completed , call Tech Support for help .
" and more technical users know there 's a log file they can check to try to fix it themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sweet, as long as we're getting rid of errors lets get rid of bugs too!
Problem solved!Seriously, there are those of us where a little error message can go a long way to help us figure out a problem without needing to call up Tech Support.
Not to mention if you just close a program every time there's a fatal error it's just going to look even worse than if you pop up an error message to notify the user there is a problem.Getting rid of non-fatal error messages that don't stop an operation from completing--sure, though I wouldn't kill them completely, tuck them out of the way somewhere so a user like me who still cares can see them (example: IE/Chrome/Firefox info bars).
But anything that forces the action the user is trying to do to abort or kills the program needs to let the user know what's going on at least, even if it's "The operation could not be completed, call Tech Support for help.
" and more technical users know there's a log file they can check to try to fix it themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315876</id>
	<title>Use Humor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay so this is technically a readme file, but it is still among the best technical documentation I've ever seen shipped with a piece of software. It came with the program "DV Rack", a video capture application written by Serious Magic...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Oh, good.... You're reading this file. You are indeed a wise person who takes<br>direction well. Blessings be upon you!</p><p>IMPORTANT!</p><p>WHAT NOT TO DO:<br>All the captured video clips in this folder (and any subfolders in it) must<br>remain unmodified and exactly where they are for DV Rack to fully and properly<br>function. You see, DV Rack has an internal Database that puts the clips here<br>and this Database bloody well expects them to still be here the next time it<br>comes around looking for them. Pay attention because this Database has a<br>personality much like the deity figure in some religions (say, Pan or Loki). It<br>is a singularly temperamental, unforgiving, and capricious Database Deity. It<br>knows how to Smite and, trust us, you don't want any smiting going on around<br>your clips. The only way to make the Database Deity cranky is to mess with the<br>clips it puts here in this one folder.</p><p>Editing, deleting, or renaming these clips will result in inexplicable, random,<br>and very likely BAD and NAUGHTY behavior on the part of DV Rack. No kidding,<br>this normally elegant and refined software will start acting like a petulant<br>three-year-old who is hours past nappy time and just had its ice cream taken<br>away. No one wants that! So PLEASE do not perform any of these actions on any<br>clips in this folder. However, if DV Rack is not running, you can use Windows<br>to copy of one or more clips in this folder to somewhere else on your hard<br>drive (outside the DV Rack folders). But don't even THINK about ever putting<br>them back here.</p><p>WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD:<br>The instant, easy, proper (and painless) way to get your clutches on these<br>clips is to first use the magic "Eject" button in the DVR. DV Rack will<br>graciously take the clips from the evil clutches of the Database and put them<br>next door, over in the "Ejected Clips" folder. Life is easy over there. No<br>rules. No consequences. No three-year-olds.</p><p>So remember, don't touch the clips unless they're in the "Ejected Clips" folder<br>or the "Garbage Clips" folder. If you do, don't come crying to us like a three-<br>year-old who just had its ice cream taken away. You have been warned...</p><p>The DV Rack Team Thanks You For Your Most Benevolent Cooperation</p></div><p>Unfortunately, Serious Magic was bought out by Adobe, who decided to write a more "corporate" version of this...and inflate the app size from 18MBytes to over 400.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay so this is technically a readme file , but it is still among the best technical documentation I 've ever seen shipped with a piece of software .
It came with the program " DV Rack " , a video capture application written by Serious Magic...Oh , good.... You 're reading this file .
You are indeed a wise person who takesdirection well .
Blessings be upon you ! IMPORTANT ! WHAT NOT TO DO : All the captured video clips in this folder ( and any subfolders in it ) mustremain unmodified and exactly where they are for DV Rack to fully and properlyfunction .
You see , DV Rack has an internal Database that puts the clips hereand this Database bloody well expects them to still be here the next time itcomes around looking for them .
Pay attention because this Database has apersonality much like the deity figure in some religions ( say , Pan or Loki ) .
Itis a singularly temperamental , unforgiving , and capricious Database Deity .
Itknows how to Smite and , trust us , you do n't want any smiting going on aroundyour clips .
The only way to make the Database Deity cranky is to mess with theclips it puts here in this one folder.Editing , deleting , or renaming these clips will result in inexplicable , random,and very likely BAD and NAUGHTY behavior on the part of DV Rack .
No kidding,this normally elegant and refined software will start acting like a petulantthree-year-old who is hours past nappy time and just had its ice cream takenaway .
No one wants that !
So PLEASE do not perform any of these actions on anyclips in this folder .
However , if DV Rack is not running , you can use Windowsto copy of one or more clips in this folder to somewhere else on your harddrive ( outside the DV Rack folders ) .
But do n't even THINK about ever puttingthem back here.WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD : The instant , easy , proper ( and painless ) way to get your clutches on theseclips is to first use the magic " Eject " button in the DVR .
DV Rack willgraciously take the clips from the evil clutches of the Database and put themnext door , over in the " Ejected Clips " folder .
Life is easy over there .
Norules. No consequences .
No three-year-olds.So remember , do n't touch the clips unless they 're in the " Ejected Clips " folderor the " Garbage Clips " folder .
If you do , do n't come crying to us like a three-year-old who just had its ice cream taken away .
You have been warned...The DV Rack Team Thanks You For Your Most Benevolent CooperationUnfortunately , Serious Magic was bought out by Adobe , who decided to write a more " corporate " version of this...and inflate the app size from 18MBytes to over 400 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay so this is technically a readme file, but it is still among the best technical documentation I've ever seen shipped with a piece of software.
It came with the program "DV Rack", a video capture application written by Serious Magic...Oh, good.... You're reading this file.
You are indeed a wise person who takesdirection well.
Blessings be upon you!IMPORTANT!WHAT NOT TO DO:All the captured video clips in this folder (and any subfolders in it) mustremain unmodified and exactly where they are for DV Rack to fully and properlyfunction.
You see, DV Rack has an internal Database that puts the clips hereand this Database bloody well expects them to still be here the next time itcomes around looking for them.
Pay attention because this Database has apersonality much like the deity figure in some religions (say, Pan or Loki).
Itis a singularly temperamental, unforgiving, and capricious Database Deity.
Itknows how to Smite and, trust us, you don't want any smiting going on aroundyour clips.
The only way to make the Database Deity cranky is to mess with theclips it puts here in this one folder.Editing, deleting, or renaming these clips will result in inexplicable, random,and very likely BAD and NAUGHTY behavior on the part of DV Rack.
No kidding,this normally elegant and refined software will start acting like a petulantthree-year-old who is hours past nappy time and just had its ice cream takenaway.
No one wants that!
So PLEASE do not perform any of these actions on anyclips in this folder.
However, if DV Rack is not running, you can use Windowsto copy of one or more clips in this folder to somewhere else on your harddrive (outside the DV Rack folders).
But don't even THINK about ever puttingthem back here.WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD:The instant, easy, proper (and painless) way to get your clutches on theseclips is to first use the magic "Eject" button in the DVR.
DV Rack willgraciously take the clips from the evil clutches of the Database and put themnext door, over in the "Ejected Clips" folder.
Life is easy over there.
Norules. No consequences.
No three-year-olds.So remember, don't touch the clips unless they're in the "Ejected Clips" folderor the "Garbage Clips" folder.
If you do, don't come crying to us like a three-year-old who just had its ice cream taken away.
You have been warned...The DV Rack Team Thanks You For Your Most Benevolent CooperationUnfortunately, Serious Magic was bought out by Adobe, who decided to write a more "corporate" version of this...and inflate the app size from 18MBytes to over 400.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316650</id>
	<title>Paperwork</title>
	<author>mmmmbeer</author>
	<datestamp>1267461000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If possible, force people to fill out paperwork when making a support request.  People hate paperwork, even if it's short and easy, so they will be willing to do a little actual thinking to avoid it.  If the paperwork asks them to copy the text of the error message, it may prompt the user to actually read the message.  Those users who can't even handle something that simple will hopefully ask someone more than half-capable, who will solve the problem without bothering you.  At the very least, you will hopefully get the text of the error message so you can read it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If possible , force people to fill out paperwork when making a support request .
People hate paperwork , even if it 's short and easy , so they will be willing to do a little actual thinking to avoid it .
If the paperwork asks them to copy the text of the error message , it may prompt the user to actually read the message .
Those users who ca n't even handle something that simple will hopefully ask someone more than half-capable , who will solve the problem without bothering you .
At the very least , you will hopefully get the text of the error message so you can read it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If possible, force people to fill out paperwork when making a support request.
People hate paperwork, even if it's short and easy, so they will be willing to do a little actual thinking to avoid it.
If the paperwork asks them to copy the text of the error message, it may prompt the user to actually read the message.
Those users who can't even handle something that simple will hopefully ask someone more than half-capable, who will solve the problem without bothering you.
At the very least, you will hopefully get the text of the error message so you can read it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319556</id>
	<title>Usability snob says...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267471920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are solving a wrong problem and about to confuse your poor users even more with with strange error message icons.<br>Instead of trying to force users to read incomprehensible techno bable, you should be designing your program so that it doesn't need to show error messages.</p><p>At the very least do not use simple modal dialogs and error messages that only describe the problem. Use error messages that do not prevent doing anything but disposing the message (i.e., modal dialog) and always describe a SOLUTION to the problem.</p><p>E.g., if the error is that a user tries to submit a form with a missing required field, you could just move focus back to where a value is missing, put a thick red border with a border title "REQUIRED FIELD"  around the widget in question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are solving a wrong problem and about to confuse your poor users even more with with strange error message icons.Instead of trying to force users to read incomprehensible techno bable , you should be designing your program so that it does n't need to show error messages.At the very least do not use simple modal dialogs and error messages that only describe the problem .
Use error messages that do not prevent doing anything but disposing the message ( i.e. , modal dialog ) and always describe a SOLUTION to the problem.E.g. , if the error is that a user tries to submit a form with a missing required field , you could just move focus back to where a value is missing , put a thick red border with a border title " REQUIRED FIELD " around the widget in question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are solving a wrong problem and about to confuse your poor users even more with with strange error message icons.Instead of trying to force users to read incomprehensible techno bable, you should be designing your program so that it doesn't need to show error messages.At the very least do not use simple modal dialogs and error messages that only describe the problem.
Use error messages that do not prevent doing anything but disposing the message (i.e., modal dialog) and always describe a SOLUTION to the problem.E.g., if the error is that a user tries to submit a form with a missing required field, you could just move focus back to where a value is missing, put a thick red border with a border title "REQUIRED FIELD"  around the widget in question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315464</id>
	<title>Get rid of the time rush that works are under as s</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1267456800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get rid of the time rush that works are under as some people may try to just get around the error so they don't have to wait on hold / go though all the level 1 stuff like reboot your system / and other stuff that do not get to what the error is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get rid of the time rush that works are under as some people may try to just get around the error so they do n't have to wait on hold / go though all the level 1 stuff like reboot your system / and other stuff that do not get to what the error is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get rid of the time rush that works are under as some people may try to just get around the error so they don't have to wait on hold / go though all the level 1 stuff like reboot your system / and other stuff that do not get to what the error is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316046</id>
	<title>Meaningful</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps if you used error messages that people accually understood.... Instead of:<br>The instruction at "0x52fa32b0" referenced memory at "0x45f2588727b". Memory could not be "written".</p><p>Which is pretty much the medical term for you have a broken leg. Great for the doctor but pretty meaningless for the patient.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps if you used error messages that people accually understood.... Instead of : The instruction at " 0x52fa32b0 " referenced memory at " 0x45f2588727b " .
Memory could not be " written " .Which is pretty much the medical term for you have a broken leg .
Great for the doctor but pretty meaningless for the patient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps if you used error messages that people accually understood.... Instead of:The instruction at "0x52fa32b0" referenced memory at "0x45f2588727b".
Memory could not be "written".Which is pretty much the medical term for you have a broken leg.
Great for the doctor but pretty meaningless for the patient.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318344</id>
	<title>25kV Electrodes in Chair</title>
	<author>EmagGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1267467180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When an error message pops up, they have 10 seconds to retype it into a dialog box, or they get 25kV in the arse.</p><p>After they retype it, they get 10kV anyway, just for being stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When an error message pops up , they have 10 seconds to retype it into a dialog box , or they get 25kV in the arse.After they retype it , they get 10kV anyway , just for being stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When an error message pops up, they have 10 seconds to retype it into a dialog box, or they get 25kV in the arse.After they retype it, they get 10kV anyway, just for being stupid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322162</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1267438560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.</p></div></blockquote><p>What's annoying is that when I have my web application produce an error backtrace that can easily be copied and pasted, people send me a 500K screen cap of their browser window... which doesn't show the entire backtrace, obviously.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs ( at least Office 97 ) you ca n't even copy and paste the error message text .
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.What 's annoying is that when I have my web application produce an error backtrace that can easily be copied and pasted , people send me a 500K screen cap of their browser window... which does n't show the entire backtrace , obviously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text.
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.What's annoying is that when I have my web application produce an error backtrace that can easily be copied and pasted, people send me a 500K screen cap of their browser window... which doesn't show the entire backtrace, obviously.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315946</id>
	<title>Here's a bad idea!</title>
	<author>stakovahflow</author>
	<datestamp>1267458540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about asking the user for his/her credit card information and a check box, which, if left unchecked, could allow the systems administrator access to use that card number for any number of online purchases, shipped to some random place in Central Africa? Hey, they can use your users' stupidity to buy well needed learning equipment, right!?</p><p>--Stak</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about asking the user for his/her credit card information and a check box , which , if left unchecked , could allow the systems administrator access to use that card number for any number of online purchases , shipped to some random place in Central Africa ?
Hey , they can use your users ' stupidity to buy well needed learning equipment , right !
? --Stak</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about asking the user for his/her credit card information and a check box, which, if left unchecked, could allow the systems administrator access to use that card number for any number of online purchases, shipped to some random place in Central Africa?
Hey, they can use your users' stupidity to buy well needed learning equipment, right!
?--Stak</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315552</id>
	<title>Their lips get tired</title>
	<author>spywhere</author>
	<datestamp>1267457160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was the alpha geek on a Help Desk at a multi-state corporation, and the CIO had worked with me as an engineer before getting the job. When people too (self-)important to call the Help Desk had a problem, they would call him directly. He would give them to me, and I would make sure they were kept happy and their issues got resolved.
<br> <br>
One day, after a vice-president had SCREAMED at him because they couldn't log on, he asked me what I had done to fix it.<br>I told him that their 'caps lock' had been on.<br>He asked, "Doesn't the Windows error message remind users to check that?"<br> <br>I told him, "His lips got tired before he read down that far."</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was the alpha geek on a Help Desk at a multi-state corporation , and the CIO had worked with me as an engineer before getting the job .
When people too ( self- ) important to call the Help Desk had a problem , they would call him directly .
He would give them to me , and I would make sure they were kept happy and their issues got resolved .
One day , after a vice-president had SCREAMED at him because they could n't log on , he asked me what I had done to fix it.I told him that their 'caps lock ' had been on.He asked , " Does n't the Windows error message remind users to check that ?
" I told him , " His lips got tired before he read down that far .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was the alpha geek on a Help Desk at a multi-state corporation, and the CIO had worked with me as an engineer before getting the job.
When people too (self-)important to call the Help Desk had a problem, they would call him directly.
He would give them to me, and I would make sure they were kept happy and their issues got resolved.
One day, after a vice-president had SCREAMED at him because they couldn't log on, he asked me what I had done to fix it.I told him that their 'caps lock' had been on.He asked, "Doesn't the Windows error message remind users to check that?
" I told him, "His lips got tired before he read down that far.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315998</id>
	<title>Why do most Slashdotters hate me?</title>
	<author>Doghouse Riley</author>
	<datestamp>1267458720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that cartoons to help the user deal with errors are great, just like many of the SD'ers on this thread.
<p>
Your friend,
</p><p>
Clippy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that cartoons to help the user deal with errors are great , just like many of the SD'ers on this thread .
Your friend , Clippy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that cartoons to help the user deal with errors are great, just like many of the SD'ers on this thread.
Your friend,

Clippy</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322664</id>
	<title>Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for</title>
	<author>Matheus</author>
	<datestamp>1267440420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is this modded "Funny"?  This is exactly right no matter how much we may not like it, although I would go as far as to say it is on a different topic.</p><p>TFA is referring more to internal users relaying to an internal team who has to fix internal problems.  Once you cross the barrier to the outside of the organization to someone who is paying you (usually a very large sum of money) then "Tech Support/IT" transforms into "Customer Service".  Customer Service means you need to do whatever you can to fix their problem while keeping them happy and interested in doing possibly more business with you.  Frustrating? Yes.  Essential to stay in business?  Equally if not more Yes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is this modded " Funny " ?
This is exactly right no matter how much we may not like it , although I would go as far as to say it is on a different topic.TFA is referring more to internal users relaying to an internal team who has to fix internal problems .
Once you cross the barrier to the outside of the organization to someone who is paying you ( usually a very large sum of money ) then " Tech Support/IT " transforms into " Customer Service " .
Customer Service means you need to do whatever you can to fix their problem while keeping them happy and interested in doing possibly more business with you .
Frustrating ? Yes .
Essential to stay in business ?
Equally if not more Yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is this modded "Funny"?
This is exactly right no matter how much we may not like it, although I would go as far as to say it is on a different topic.TFA is referring more to internal users relaying to an internal team who has to fix internal problems.
Once you cross the barrier to the outside of the organization to someone who is paying you (usually a very large sum of money) then "Tech Support/IT" transforms into "Customer Service".
Customer Service means you need to do whatever you can to fix their problem while keeping them happy and interested in doing possibly more business with you.
Frustrating? Yes.
Essential to stay in business?
Equally if not more Yes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316500</id>
	<title>Simple, really: A timeout.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267460400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I calculate the time to read the message (normal speed), and multiply it by the importance factor. (Warnings: x1.5, errors x2)<br>The dialog&rsquo;s closing button is counting this down. But not second by second, as this creates pressure which distracts from reading.</p><p>Also the big title of the window consists of the worst-case implication in case of ignoring it.</p><p>E.g. doing something that could result in a trojan/rootkit being installed, would look like this: &ldquo;DANGER! You could go to jail for this!&rdquo;</p><p>Also, to keep things fresh, one could randomize the whole layout and positioning of the dialog. But I don&rsquo;t think it&rsquo;s nessecary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I calculate the time to read the message ( normal speed ) , and multiply it by the importance factor .
( Warnings : x1.5 , errors x2 ) The dialog    s closing button is counting this down .
But not second by second , as this creates pressure which distracts from reading.Also the big title of the window consists of the worst-case implication in case of ignoring it.E.g .
doing something that could result in a trojan/rootkit being installed , would look like this :    DANGER !
You could go to jail for this !    Also , to keep things fresh , one could randomize the whole layout and positioning of the dialog .
But I don    t think it    s nessecary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I calculate the time to read the message (normal speed), and multiply it by the importance factor.
(Warnings: x1.5, errors x2)The dialog’s closing button is counting this down.
But not second by second, as this creates pressure which distracts from reading.Also the big title of the window consists of the worst-case implication in case of ignoring it.E.g.
doing something that could result in a trojan/rootkit being installed, would look like this: “DANGER!
You could go to jail for this!”Also, to keep things fresh, one could randomize the whole layout and positioning of the dialog.
But I don’t think it’s nessecary.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315838</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Your program should not allow errors.</p></div><p>I assume you're not a programmer. But regardless, most errors happen because something the programmer didn't anticipate happened. So I'd like your help now; I have a large application that might have errors in it (I don't know). Please identify anything that I didn't think could possibly happen. No need to look at the source code since these are unanticipated errors anyway.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your program should not allow errors.I assume you 're not a programmer .
But regardless , most errors happen because something the programmer did n't anticipate happened .
So I 'd like your help now ; I have a large application that might have errors in it ( I do n't know ) .
Please identify anything that I did n't think could possibly happen .
No need to look at the source code since these are unanticipated errors anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your program should not allow errors.I assume you're not a programmer.
But regardless, most errors happen because something the programmer didn't anticipate happened.
So I'd like your help now; I have a large application that might have errors in it (I don't know).
Please identify anything that I didn't think could possibly happen.
No need to look at the source code since these are unanticipated errors anyway.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316168</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>captainpanic</author>
	<datestamp>1267459200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>10 seconds is not enough to grab a coffee, but locking my pc for 10 seconds sure motivates me to get one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>10 seconds is not enough to grab a coffee , but locking my pc for 10 seconds sure motivates me to get one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>10 seconds is not enough to grab a coffee, but locking my pc for 10 seconds sure motivates me to get one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316508</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Sounds like their jobs are easily automated."<br><br>It could also be that only that part of their job may be easily automated. The other parts might not be.<br><br>In which case yes it would make sense to replace that part with a computer program.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Sounds like their jobs are easily automated .
" It could also be that only that part of their job may be easily automated .
The other parts might not be.In which case yes it would make sense to replace that part with a computer program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.
"It could also be that only that part of their job may be easily automated.
The other parts might not be.In which case yes it would make sense to replace that part with a computer program.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315850</id>
	<title>The BOFH's one-word answer</title>
	<author>idontgno</author>
	<datestamp>1267458300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/L/LART.html" title="catb.org">LART</a> [catb.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>LART [ catb.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LART [catb.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31337090</id>
	<title>My Two Cents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267530060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's an idea: let the user ignore the error, but you make it more noticeable over time. For example you could have some sort of a toolbar (people always ignore these) with the error message (or something along the lines of "Click here to report this error."). The user is free to ignore this message (and they will), so why don't you force it on them without blindly clicking on an OK button? Like, make the toolbar grow by 50\% every minute, or every time the ignorant user clicks somewhere else...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's an idea : let the user ignore the error , but you make it more noticeable over time .
For example you could have some sort of a toolbar ( people always ignore these ) with the error message ( or something along the lines of " Click here to report this error. " ) .
The user is free to ignore this message ( and they will ) , so why do n't you force it on them without blindly clicking on an OK button ?
Like , make the toolbar grow by 50 \ % every minute , or every time the ignorant user clicks somewhere else.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's an idea: let the user ignore the error, but you make it more noticeable over time.
For example you could have some sort of a toolbar (people always ignore these) with the error message (or something along the lines of "Click here to report this error.").
The user is free to ignore this message (and they will), so why don't you force it on them without blindly clicking on an OK button?
Like, make the toolbar grow by 50\% every minute, or every time the ignorant user clicks somewhere else...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316062</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1267458840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.</p></div></blockquote><p>So if you try to save in a nonexistent or read-only directory it should do what?  Just pretend it all worked and hope nobody notices?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.So if you try to save in a nonexistent or read-only directory it should do what ?
Just pretend it all worked and hope nobody notices ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.So if you try to save in a nonexistent or read-only directory it should do what?
Just pretend it all worked and hope nobody notices?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315602</id>
	<title>The way out of this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Again and again it seems that the best option would be to find out what a firm with staff lacking opposable thumbs and with an inability to read does to afford your fee. Then copy the business model using staff that can hold a fork and read at the same time. It would seem that the bar is not very high. Profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Again and again it seems that the best option would be to find out what a firm with staff lacking opposable thumbs and with an inability to read does to afford your fee .
Then copy the business model using staff that can hold a fork and read at the same time .
It would seem that the bar is not very high .
Profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Again and again it seems that the best option would be to find out what a firm with staff lacking opposable thumbs and with an inability to read does to afford your fee.
Then copy the business model using staff that can hold a fork and read at the same time.
It would seem that the bar is not very high.
Profit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316454</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Mangala</author>
	<datestamp>1267460220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a pretty strong stance to take... especially for someone who can't compose a single paragraph of text without numerous errors.

The fact is, we're human. It's often far more effecient to clean up after our mistakes than to spend significant extra time to hone our effort to perfection and hope there are no mistakes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a pretty strong stance to take... especially for someone who ca n't compose a single paragraph of text without numerous errors .
The fact is , we 're human .
It 's often far more effecient to clean up after our mistakes than to spend significant extra time to hone our effort to perfection and hope there are no mistakes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a pretty strong stance to take... especially for someone who can't compose a single paragraph of text without numerous errors.
The fact is, we're human.
It's often far more effecient to clean up after our mistakes than to spend significant extra time to hone our effort to perfection and hope there are no mistakes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317036</id>
	<title>Test them</title>
	<author>goffster</author>
	<datestamp>1267462380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After the dialog is dismissed, give them a multiple choice question<br>about what the error said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After the dialog is dismissed , give them a multiple choice questionabout what the error said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After the dialog is dismissed, give them a multiple choice questionabout what the error said.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320716</id>
	<title>Mappers vs Packers</title>
	<author>Oloryn</author>
	<datestamp>1267476540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info). Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information. I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction. IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer. Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset. Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).</p><p>Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message. Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down. Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem. Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem. This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Part of what you 're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers ( Google 'The Programmer 's Stone ' for more info ) .
Packers learn by collecting little packets of information , while mappers learn by making mental maps of information .
I do n't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it , but I 've found it to be a useful distinction .
IT types ( especially programmers ) tend to be mappers , while the user is typically a packer .
Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset .
Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information ( as you noted ) .Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable , your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message .
Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message , or writing the error message down .
Try to make it short , but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem .
Since they 're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow , give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem .
This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they 're not good at .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info).
Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information.
I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction.
IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer.
Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset.
Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message.
Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down.
Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem.
Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem.
This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320826</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267476900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has worked for Firefox extensions. The problem is that until there is some API on the OS, and programmers feel the need to update their code, nothing will change. Anyway, I find that the submitter's questions is for a special case of an often reviewed issue. His special case is that he apparently has control over the full app.</p><p>For the rest of the world, there is nothing we can really do, since you cannot control how Office or your OS shell shows messages, and your helpdesk will continue to get calls. Remember that error messages are unexpected, so the issue is you won't know when they pop up, and likely, the user will have no clue what app triggered it. I wish more apps would implement the dimming of the screen / modal dialog what keeps the user from hiding the error by mistake. Sortof like the Shutdown screen in windows. I'm sure an API for that would really be abused. There is a middle ground that the MacOS uses, where there is a sliding sheet animation with the dialog comming from the specific area that generated it... but it's an optional API.</p><p>Now, to answer the poster's question... How do you get users to read error messages? Simple. Get some memorable icon, like a bomb, a rabid dog, show flashing red colors for its background, animate the bomb a little bit. Free antiviruses do it a little bit, and scare the shit out of users with loud sounds too. Pretty effective, though repeated offenses eventually get ignored even if the problem is legit. Brevity is important. Cryptic Messages and dialogs are sometimes memorable. Eudora mail used to have one that started with "Excuse me, " and something about failing to send the email due to server problems, if I remember correctly.</p><p>However, this whole model I take from the book of spammer logic. They still DO get people to click on their remarkable windows, and continue to effectively sell v1agra and get people to read long enough to understand that 'the PC needs a repair; please click here for this free antivirus'.<br>Rather than be too unique, take a page from the mac book and add a plainly visible error number, like MacOS system 7 used to. Every time there was a crash, a one line error came up, and a positive number or small negative number were at one corner. You can even use colors and text animations for the number or its background. You can color the whole window if you'd like. This is non-standard windows API stuff, but hell, this old problem won't be fixed if we don't get off our ass thinking outside the box. Chrome and Quicktime (Safari until version 4) and Windows Media Player, and Office 2007 already crap on the GUI windowing guidelines that Windows 2000-XP users expect, so it's nothing if we ignore built in API's and make an open source nagware dialog library to standardize this into new products.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has worked for Firefox extensions .
The problem is that until there is some API on the OS , and programmers feel the need to update their code , nothing will change .
Anyway , I find that the submitter 's questions is for a special case of an often reviewed issue .
His special case is that he apparently has control over the full app.For the rest of the world , there is nothing we can really do , since you can not control how Office or your OS shell shows messages , and your helpdesk will continue to get calls .
Remember that error messages are unexpected , so the issue is you wo n't know when they pop up , and likely , the user will have no clue what app triggered it .
I wish more apps would implement the dimming of the screen / modal dialog what keeps the user from hiding the error by mistake .
Sortof like the Shutdown screen in windows .
I 'm sure an API for that would really be abused .
There is a middle ground that the MacOS uses , where there is a sliding sheet animation with the dialog comming from the specific area that generated it... but it 's an optional API.Now , to answer the poster 's question... How do you get users to read error messages ?
Simple. Get some memorable icon , like a bomb , a rabid dog , show flashing red colors for its background , animate the bomb a little bit .
Free antiviruses do it a little bit , and scare the shit out of users with loud sounds too .
Pretty effective , though repeated offenses eventually get ignored even if the problem is legit .
Brevity is important .
Cryptic Messages and dialogs are sometimes memorable .
Eudora mail used to have one that started with " Excuse me , " and something about failing to send the email due to server problems , if I remember correctly.However , this whole model I take from the book of spammer logic .
They still DO get people to click on their remarkable windows , and continue to effectively sell v1agra and get people to read long enough to understand that 'the PC needs a repair ; please click here for this free antivirus'.Rather than be too unique , take a page from the mac book and add a plainly visible error number , like MacOS system 7 used to .
Every time there was a crash , a one line error came up , and a positive number or small negative number were at one corner .
You can even use colors and text animations for the number or its background .
You can color the whole window if you 'd like .
This is non-standard windows API stuff , but hell , this old problem wo n't be fixed if we do n't get off our ass thinking outside the box .
Chrome and Quicktime ( Safari until version 4 ) and Windows Media Player , and Office 2007 already crap on the GUI windowing guidelines that Windows 2000-XP users expect , so it 's nothing if we ignore built in API 's and make an open source nagware dialog library to standardize this into new products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has worked for Firefox extensions.
The problem is that until there is some API on the OS, and programmers feel the need to update their code, nothing will change.
Anyway, I find that the submitter's questions is for a special case of an often reviewed issue.
His special case is that he apparently has control over the full app.For the rest of the world, there is nothing we can really do, since you cannot control how Office or your OS shell shows messages, and your helpdesk will continue to get calls.
Remember that error messages are unexpected, so the issue is you won't know when they pop up, and likely, the user will have no clue what app triggered it.
I wish more apps would implement the dimming of the screen / modal dialog what keeps the user from hiding the error by mistake.
Sortof like the Shutdown screen in windows.
I'm sure an API for that would really be abused.
There is a middle ground that the MacOS uses, where there is a sliding sheet animation with the dialog comming from the specific area that generated it... but it's an optional API.Now, to answer the poster's question... How do you get users to read error messages?
Simple. Get some memorable icon, like a bomb, a rabid dog, show flashing red colors for its background, animate the bomb a little bit.
Free antiviruses do it a little bit, and scare the shit out of users with loud sounds too.
Pretty effective, though repeated offenses eventually get ignored even if the problem is legit.
Brevity is important.
Cryptic Messages and dialogs are sometimes memorable.
Eudora mail used to have one that started with "Excuse me, " and something about failing to send the email due to server problems, if I remember correctly.However, this whole model I take from the book of spammer logic.
They still DO get people to click on their remarkable windows, and continue to effectively sell v1agra and get people to read long enough to understand that 'the PC needs a repair; please click here for this free antivirus'.Rather than be too unique, take a page from the mac book and add a plainly visible error number, like MacOS system 7 used to.
Every time there was a crash, a one line error came up, and a positive number or small negative number were at one corner.
You can even use colors and text animations for the number or its background.
You can color the whole window if you'd like.
This is non-standard windows API stuff, but hell, this old problem won't be fixed if we don't get off our ass thinking outside the box.
Chrome and Quicktime (Safari until version 4) and Windows Media Player, and Office 2007 already crap on the GUI windowing guidelines that Windows 2000-XP users expect, so it's nothing if we ignore built in API's and make an open source nagware dialog library to standardize this into new products.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316292</id>
	<title>Re:Error messages are for the programmers, not use</title>
	<author>troll8901</author>
	<datestamp>1267459560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>1. Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?</p></div><p>That's a good point.  Hey, <b>ip\_freely\_2000</b>, can't you force <i>all</i> the HP staff to use Netscape Navigator 2.0, and simply use HTML 2.0 in your programming?  Why were you trying to detect the User Agent ID?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>2. Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e. you) could diagnose the problem?</p></div><p>That's another good question.  YOU are the ISV.  You should tell HP, they should allow your software to contact your Internet servers - especially if your software deals with confidential data!  Your convenience should come before HP's need to protect data!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer. Is this startup you were working for still in business?</p></div><p>I agree with <b>cryfreedomlove</b>.  Your ISV must be so silly to comply with HP's wishes, it must have collapsed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value ? That 's a good point .
Hey , ip \ _freely \ _2000 , ca n't you force all the HP staff to use Netscape Navigator 2.0 , and simply use HTML 2.0 in your programming ?
Why were you trying to detect the User Agent ID ? 2 .
Why did n't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts ( i.e .
you ) could diagnose the problem ? That 's another good question .
YOU are the ISV .
You should tell HP , they should allow your software to contact your Internet servers - especially if your software deals with confidential data !
Your convenience should come before HP 's need to protect data ! It 's funny that you blame this problem on your customer .
Is this startup you were working for still in business ? I agree with cryfreedomlove .
Your ISV must be so silly to comply with HP 's wishes , it must have collapsed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?That's a good point.
Hey, ip\_freely\_2000, can't you force all the HP staff to use Netscape Navigator 2.0, and simply use HTML 2.0 in your programming?
Why were you trying to detect the User Agent ID?2.
Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e.
you) could diagnose the problem?That's another good question.
YOU are the ISV.
You should tell HP, they should allow your software to contact your Internet servers - especially if your software deals with confidential data!
Your convenience should come before HP's need to protect data!It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer.
Is this startup you were working for still in business?I agree with cryfreedomlove.
Your ISV must be so silly to comply with HP's wishes, it must have collapsed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315634</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</id>
	<title>Do away with them</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267456140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p><p>Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages. But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel. I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error <i>n</i>: there is no message for this error". Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example. If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo. This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.</p><p>I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it. Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.</p><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Now , if you 're talking about a programming language or programming environment , that 's different , but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages .
But even there , some efforts are lax and feebel .
I 've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n : there is no message for this error " .
Boundary conditions for common " errors " are handled poorly ; end of file , for example .
If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons , there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file , and Access returns an error in a big scary " stop " combo .
This should be there in a debug mode , but a user should n't see it -- and Access ' docs should be a lot more clear.I 'm not just talking about Microsoft , you 're all bad about it .
Well , not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing 's barely out of alpha are bad about it.With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable .
If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages.
But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel.
I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error".
Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example.
If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo.
This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it.
Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.
If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315660</id>
	<title>How about pressing the print screen(PrtScn) button</title>
	<author>TheSunborn</author>
	<datestamp>1267457580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about just asking the users to press the print screen(PrtScn) button and send the screenshot to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about just asking the users to press the print screen ( PrtScn ) button and send the screenshot to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about just asking the users to press the print screen(PrtScn) button and send the screenshot to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318542</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>UserCentered</author>
	<datestamp>1267467900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're on the right track here, but as was mentioned, this is basically impossible.  My first recommendation is to use the language of the user.  Tell them clearly what the problem is without resorting to technical jargon.  Allow for this jargon to be accessed by opening an advanced tab or some similar system.  Try to tell the user directly what they need to do to fix the problem (don't just tell them to contact their system administrator).  If they need to call someone try to give them the number.  Try listing any instructions in actionable bullet-points.  Simple to read lists are going to be much more likely to be read than a textbox full of code dump.

The puppy error idea might work.  I would love to hear more stories about success or failure here.

If are with a larger company, then talk to one of these departments for more ideas (or validation of your existing ideas):

Human Factors
User Experience
Usability

They specialize in working with problems like this, and if they have the time they should see this as an interesting problem in their domain (I know I do).</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're on the right track here , but as was mentioned , this is basically impossible .
My first recommendation is to use the language of the user .
Tell them clearly what the problem is without resorting to technical jargon .
Allow for this jargon to be accessed by opening an advanced tab or some similar system .
Try to tell the user directly what they need to do to fix the problem ( do n't just tell them to contact their system administrator ) .
If they need to call someone try to give them the number .
Try listing any instructions in actionable bullet-points .
Simple to read lists are going to be much more likely to be read than a textbox full of code dump .
The puppy error idea might work .
I would love to hear more stories about success or failure here .
If are with a larger company , then talk to one of these departments for more ideas ( or validation of your existing ideas ) : Human Factors User Experience Usability They specialize in working with problems like this , and if they have the time they should see this as an interesting problem in their domain ( I know I do ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're on the right track here, but as was mentioned, this is basically impossible.
My first recommendation is to use the language of the user.
Tell them clearly what the problem is without resorting to technical jargon.
Allow for this jargon to be accessed by opening an advanced tab or some similar system.
Try to tell the user directly what they need to do to fix the problem (don't just tell them to contact their system administrator).
If they need to call someone try to give them the number.
Try listing any instructions in actionable bullet-points.
Simple to read lists are going to be much more likely to be read than a textbox full of code dump.
The puppy error idea might work.
I would love to hear more stories about success or failure here.
If are with a larger company, then talk to one of these departments for more ideas (or validation of your existing ideas):

Human Factors
User Experience
Usability

They specialize in working with problems like this, and if they have the time they should see this as an interesting problem in their domain (I know I do).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317240</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>sorak</author>
	<datestamp>1267463100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p> they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.</p></div><p>Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.  Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div><p>But he'll hire them back when the program gives him a weird error.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens , they 're completely lost.Sounds like their jobs are easily automated .
Tell them if they do n't pay closer attention to error messages you 'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program .
; ) But he 'll hire them back when the program gives him a weird error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.
Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.
;)But he'll hire them back when the program gives him a weird error.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318214</id>
	<title>Haptic FTW</title>
	<author>J'raxis</author>
	<datestamp>1267466700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Unfortunately, haptic<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... feedback aren't readily available.</p></div></blockquote><p>Oh, to have a computer that would slap someone when they make a stupid error...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , haptic ... feedback are n't readily available.Oh , to have a computer that would slap someone when they make a stupid error.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, haptic ... feedback aren't readily available.Oh, to have a computer that would slap someone when they make a stupid error...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</id>
	<title>Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do yourself a favour and produce a one-click tool that collects all the info that you need (logfiles, version numbers, registry listings) and sends it to you.  If you can make it 0-click, even better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do yourself a favour and produce a one-click tool that collects all the info that you need ( logfiles , version numbers , registry listings ) and sends it to you .
If you can make it 0-click , even better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do yourself a favour and produce a one-click tool that collects all the info that you need (logfiles, version numbers, registry listings) and sends it to you.
If you can make it 0-click, even better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317388</id>
	<title>Focus on robustness</title>
	<author>Fastolfe</author>
	<datestamp>1267463700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends on the nature of the application.  But I'd start trying to make the application less reliant on error messages to begin with.</p><p>Some error messages reflect some external dependency that can't be satisfied.  Try to convert some of those error messages to "Please wait while I keep retrying, click here to cancel" messages, which then become "I'm still trying.  If you think something's broken, call the helpdesk at \_\_\_".  Don't interrupt the user with an error message, just try again for them.  Bonus points if your retry mechanism can fall back to different systems or systems in different regions.</p><p>Some types of error messages don't even need an error message, you just need to change the UI to highlight a mistake the user made.  Field validation errors, for instance, should just point out the broken fields and maybe add a blurb of text about what's a legal value there.</p><p>Some types of error messages can be worked around, or aren't really important in the grand scheme of things.  If the users probably aren't going to care that something didn't work, don't bother them about it.  Make the error easily discoverable if they need to investigate why their externally-hosted images didn't appear, but there's no reason this needs to be an error message popping up in their face.</p><p>All of these, plus the truly exceptional errors like crashes, should be logged to local disk, and also to a server on the network.  It should be possible for you to pull up all of the problems a user is having, when they call you, or even be proactive and notice a lot of people are having the same problems doing X.  You could even have monitoring in place that watched for clusters of the same errors, and send out pages to your technicians before users even have a chance to call you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on the nature of the application .
But I 'd start trying to make the application less reliant on error messages to begin with.Some error messages reflect some external dependency that ca n't be satisfied .
Try to convert some of those error messages to " Please wait while I keep retrying , click here to cancel " messages , which then become " I 'm still trying .
If you think something 's broken , call the helpdesk at \ _ \ _ \ _ " .
Do n't interrupt the user with an error message , just try again for them .
Bonus points if your retry mechanism can fall back to different systems or systems in different regions.Some types of error messages do n't even need an error message , you just need to change the UI to highlight a mistake the user made .
Field validation errors , for instance , should just point out the broken fields and maybe add a blurb of text about what 's a legal value there.Some types of error messages can be worked around , or are n't really important in the grand scheme of things .
If the users probably are n't going to care that something did n't work , do n't bother them about it .
Make the error easily discoverable if they need to investigate why their externally-hosted images did n't appear , but there 's no reason this needs to be an error message popping up in their face.All of these , plus the truly exceptional errors like crashes , should be logged to local disk , and also to a server on the network .
It should be possible for you to pull up all of the problems a user is having , when they call you , or even be proactive and notice a lot of people are having the same problems doing X. You could even have monitoring in place that watched for clusters of the same errors , and send out pages to your technicians before users even have a chance to call you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on the nature of the application.
But I'd start trying to make the application less reliant on error messages to begin with.Some error messages reflect some external dependency that can't be satisfied.
Try to convert some of those error messages to "Please wait while I keep retrying, click here to cancel" messages, which then become "I'm still trying.
If you think something's broken, call the helpdesk at \_\_\_".
Don't interrupt the user with an error message, just try again for them.
Bonus points if your retry mechanism can fall back to different systems or systems in different regions.Some types of error messages don't even need an error message, you just need to change the UI to highlight a mistake the user made.
Field validation errors, for instance, should just point out the broken fields and maybe add a blurb of text about what's a legal value there.Some types of error messages can be worked around, or aren't really important in the grand scheme of things.
If the users probably aren't going to care that something didn't work, don't bother them about it.
Make the error easily discoverable if they need to investigate why their externally-hosted images didn't appear, but there's no reason this needs to be an error message popping up in their face.All of these, plus the truly exceptional errors like crashes, should be logged to local disk, and also to a server on the network.
It should be possible for you to pull up all of the problems a user is having, when they call you, or even be proactive and notice a lot of people are having the same problems doing X.  You could even have monitoring in place that watched for clusters of the same errors, and send out pages to your technicians before users even have a chance to call you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322688</id>
	<title>logging...</title>
	<author>ZenDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1267440480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We have had this problem in the past. We implemented a BSOD style of system that would literally consume the entire space of the application being run to notify them of errors. No possible way they could miss it, they are not allowed to continue without restarting the application. In addition to the error message we would log basically a full stack trace to a central logging database along with a time stamp, user id, application name, etc. So a use reporting an issue would need only to read a quick id that showed on the error message and we could look it up in the database without having to pester the user for more information. This process seems to work well, and I think they key to get around the task asfixiation thing is to simply not allow them to continue with their session if it is a process breaking errors. For the most part, all other non-ciritical errors that arent affecting data or process are logged silently.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We have had this problem in the past .
We implemented a BSOD style of system that would literally consume the entire space of the application being run to notify them of errors .
No possible way they could miss it , they are not allowed to continue without restarting the application .
In addition to the error message we would log basically a full stack trace to a central logging database along with a time stamp , user id , application name , etc .
So a use reporting an issue would need only to read a quick id that showed on the error message and we could look it up in the database without having to pester the user for more information .
This process seems to work well , and I think they key to get around the task asfixiation thing is to simply not allow them to continue with their session if it is a process breaking errors .
For the most part , all other non-ciritical errors that arent affecting data or process are logged silently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have had this problem in the past.
We implemented a BSOD style of system that would literally consume the entire space of the application being run to notify them of errors.
No possible way they could miss it, they are not allowed to continue without restarting the application.
In addition to the error message we would log basically a full stack trace to a central logging database along with a time stamp, user id, application name, etc.
So a use reporting an issue would need only to read a quick id that showed on the error message and we could look it up in the database without having to pester the user for more information.
This process seems to work well, and I think they key to get around the task asfixiation thing is to simply not allow them to continue with their session if it is a process breaking errors.
For the most part, all other non-ciritical errors that arent affecting data or process are logged silently.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317872</id>
	<title>Opening for new errors</title>
	<author>Faffe</author>
	<datestamp>1267465560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Helpdesk? I have a red pegasus error in the error displaying software!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Helpdesk ?
I have a red pegasus error in the error displaying software !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Helpdesk?
I have a red pegasus error in the error displaying software!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</id>
	<title>I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>suso</author>
	<datestamp>1267456080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior. With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this.  Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior .
With Windows , I ca n't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they 've kinda been trained to do this .
Linux errors are usually more useful , descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window , you have to be more careful .
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior.
With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this.
Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.
;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318866</id>
	<title>Blame advertising</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1267469100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The human brain is excellent at filtering information.  I think advertising has trained us to turn our brains off to certain things, and we are oblivious to it.</p><p>I've seen this phenomenon in myself.  Some times when surfing the web with someone else looking over my shoulder, and that person mentions something that they see on the page, and I have to ask them where it is.  Often times it is an advertisement, and I read so much online that I just blocked it out.  Once I was reading an article that referred to an illustration, and I was frustrated because I couldn't find the illustration.  I figured something was wrong on the page.  So I decided to scan the page bottom-to-top, right-to-left (the opposite of natural reading order) and the illustration was there!  Right where it was supposed to be!  Right under an advertisement that I was ignoring.</p><p>Someone earlier posted an example with an error message bouncing around the screen.  I totally understand why the user missed it -- because many monitors display pointless messages like "No signal" instead of going to sleep.</p><p>People are inundated with useless, inappropriate information.  As a result, our brains filter out information we don't understand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The human brain is excellent at filtering information .
I think advertising has trained us to turn our brains off to certain things , and we are oblivious to it.I 've seen this phenomenon in myself .
Some times when surfing the web with someone else looking over my shoulder , and that person mentions something that they see on the page , and I have to ask them where it is .
Often times it is an advertisement , and I read so much online that I just blocked it out .
Once I was reading an article that referred to an illustration , and I was frustrated because I could n't find the illustration .
I figured something was wrong on the page .
So I decided to scan the page bottom-to-top , right-to-left ( the opposite of natural reading order ) and the illustration was there !
Right where it was supposed to be !
Right under an advertisement that I was ignoring.Someone earlier posted an example with an error message bouncing around the screen .
I totally understand why the user missed it -- because many monitors display pointless messages like " No signal " instead of going to sleep.People are inundated with useless , inappropriate information .
As a result , our brains filter out information we do n't understand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The human brain is excellent at filtering information.
I think advertising has trained us to turn our brains off to certain things, and we are oblivious to it.I've seen this phenomenon in myself.
Some times when surfing the web with someone else looking over my shoulder, and that person mentions something that they see on the page, and I have to ask them where it is.
Often times it is an advertisement, and I read so much online that I just blocked it out.
Once I was reading an article that referred to an illustration, and I was frustrated because I couldn't find the illustration.
I figured something was wrong on the page.
So I decided to scan the page bottom-to-top, right-to-left (the opposite of natural reading order) and the illustration was there!
Right where it was supposed to be!
Right under an advertisement that I was ignoring.Someone earlier posted an example with an error message bouncing around the screen.
I totally understand why the user missed it -- because many monitors display pointless messages like "No signal" instead of going to sleep.People are inundated with useless, inappropriate information.
As a result, our brains filter out information we don't understand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31342684</id>
	<title>Critical errors comes with...</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1267613820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>time delayed activation of confirm buttons and different color of dialog.</htmltext>
<tokenext>time delayed activation of confirm buttons and different color of dialog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>time delayed activation of confirm buttons and different color of dialog.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319076</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267470000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...</p></div><p>Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF <b>ASSHOLES</b> think that users should take responsibility for crashes??? Your software should not be crashing all over the place. You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.</p></div><p>Yeah, god damn GM! They should make the car fix itself when I drive it into the police station, not make me stall and get arrested! Those bastards!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...Excuse me , but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes ? ? ?
Your software should not be crashing all over the place .
You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.Yeah , god damn GM !
They should make the car fix itself when I drive it into the police station , not make me stall and get arrested !
Those bastards !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes???
Your software should not be crashing all over the place.
You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.Yeah, god damn GM!
They should make the car fix itself when I drive it into the police station, not make me stall and get arrested!
Those bastards!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31395862</id>
	<title>Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for</title>
	<author>Geminii</author>
	<datestamp>1267971180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"What's your time worth? Now how much of it do you waste calling us when you could have been back to work five seconds later if you'd just read what was right in front of you?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" What 's your time worth ?
Now how much of it do you waste calling us when you could have been back to work five seconds later if you 'd just read what was right in front of you ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"What's your time worth?
Now how much of it do you waste calling us when you could have been back to work five seconds later if you'd just read what was right in front of you?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316986</id>
	<title>Re:Not the users fault.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its a hell of alot easier for some users to read an error outloud, then to find a log file in some little hidden directory..... Ive been tutoring kids at my community college in office 07 and stuff like that.. I had a 25 year old the other day who did not have any clue on how to print.. PRINT.. USERS are STUPID (in general)  I had another one who was trying to install windows software on his mac.. saying the entire time.. it worked on my last computer why doest it work on this one.. CAUSE YOUR LAST COMPUTER WASNT A MAC RETARD!!!.. USERS ARE FUCKING STUPID.. its best not to even let them know a file system exsists... If we make the eintire world dummy proof then all we will have left are dummies, and i for one dont want my users getting stupider.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a hell of alot easier for some users to read an error outloud , then to find a log file in some little hidden directory..... Ive been tutoring kids at my community college in office 07 and stuff like that.. I had a 25 year old the other day who did not have any clue on how to print.. PRINT.. USERS are STUPID ( in general ) I had another one who was trying to install windows software on his mac.. saying the entire time.. it worked on my last computer why doest it work on this one.. CAUSE YOUR LAST COMPUTER WASNT A MAC RETARD ! ! ! . .
USERS ARE FUCKING STUPID.. its best not to even let them know a file system exsists... If we make the eintire world dummy proof then all we will have left are dummies , and i for one dont want my users getting stupider .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a hell of alot easier for some users to read an error outloud, then to find a log file in some little hidden directory..... Ive been tutoring kids at my community college in office 07 and stuff like that.. I had a 25 year old the other day who did not have any clue on how to print.. PRINT.. USERS are STUPID (in general)  I had another one who was trying to install windows software on his mac.. saying the entire time.. it worked on my last computer why doest it work on this one.. CAUSE YOUR LAST COMPUTER WASNT A MAC RETARD!!!..
USERS ARE FUCKING STUPID.. its best not to even let them know a file system exsists... If we make the eintire world dummy proof then all we will have left are dummies, and i for one dont want my users getting stupider.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315510</id>
	<title>Make them retype it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Add an input field on the error message that makes them type the text of the error (or the key bits, anyway) before they are allowed to dismess it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Add an input field on the error message that makes them type the text of the error ( or the key bits , anyway ) before they are allowed to dismess it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Add an input field on the error message that makes them type the text of the error (or the key bits, anyway) before they are allowed to dismess it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318198</id>
	<title>Copy the error message</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267466640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make them retype the error message, as with a capcha, those bastards!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make them retype the error message , as with a capcha , those bastards !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make them retype the error message, as with a capcha, those bastards!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316856</id>
	<title>Multiple Choice</title>
	<author>MaQleod</author>
	<datestamp>1267461780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Make them answer a multiple choice question based off of the error given, if they answer wrong, the error is displayed again, and again and again, until they pay attention and answer it right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Make them answer a multiple choice question based off of the error given , if they answer wrong , the error is displayed again , and again and again , until they pay attention and answer it right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make them answer a multiple choice question based off of the error given, if they answer wrong, the error is displayed again, and again and again, until they pay attention and answer it right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320082</id>
	<title>What we can learn from basic</title>
	<author>Leolo</author>
	<datestamp>1267473900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work with legacy systems written in Pro/5 BASIC.  Yes, pain.  But... if a user calls you up and says "Error 11 on line 31210" you can know pretty quickly what the problem was.  Because all our programs are structured in such a way that we know roughly what 31210 is doing.</p><p>I don't really handle the BASIC stuff (my part is in Perl and Javascript), but I've heard my associate dictating a new line of code over the phone. Basically a one-line patch, improvised on the spot.</p><p>I was very impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work with legacy systems written in Pro/5 BASIC .
Yes , pain .
But... if a user calls you up and says " Error 11 on line 31210 " you can know pretty quickly what the problem was .
Because all our programs are structured in such a way that we know roughly what 31210 is doing.I do n't really handle the BASIC stuff ( my part is in Perl and Javascript ) , but I 've heard my associate dictating a new line of code over the phone .
Basically a one-line patch , improvised on the spot.I was very impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work with legacy systems written in Pro/5 BASIC.
Yes, pain.
But... if a user calls you up and says "Error 11 on line 31210" you can know pretty quickly what the problem was.
Because all our programs are structured in such a way that we know roughly what 31210 is doing.I don't really handle the BASIC stuff (my part is in Perl and Javascript), but I've heard my associate dictating a new line of code over the phone.
Basically a one-line patch, improvised on the spot.I was very impressed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316204</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love haptic error feedback. Nothink like the "slap in the face" error, sure your users will remember it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love haptic error feedback .
Nothink like the " slap in the face " error , sure your users will remember it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love haptic error feedback.
Nothink like the "slap in the face" error, sure your users will remember it!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315912</id>
	<title>not gonna happen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Users have been conditioned to simply click away message boxes as quickly as possible and get on with their lives.</p><p>A Windows computer is constantly popping up boxes that get in your way.  Sometimes it's just to inform you that a wireless network was found...  Other times it's asking for confirmation for something...  Other times it's a warning...  Sometimes it's an error...</p><p>Folks don't evaluate what the message says, they just make it go away.</p><p>You can put all the puppies and red numbers and blue squares as you want...  They're still going to click it away just as quick as they can.</p><p>You could alleviate this to a certain degree by taking away their ability to clear the error message.  Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box.  They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need.  Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.</p><p>A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users have been conditioned to simply click away message boxes as quickly as possible and get on with their lives.A Windows computer is constantly popping up boxes that get in your way .
Sometimes it 's just to inform you that a wireless network was found... Other times it 's asking for confirmation for something... Other times it 's a warning... Sometimes it 's an error...Folks do n't evaluate what the message says , they just make it go away.You can put all the puppies and red numbers and blue squares as you want... They 're still going to click it away just as quick as they can.You could alleviate this to a certain degree by taking away their ability to clear the error message .
Put in an error code somewhere , along with a phone number for technical support , and no way to close the box .
They 'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need .
Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated , then you do n't need to rely on the user to do much of anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users have been conditioned to simply click away message boxes as quickly as possible and get on with their lives.A Windows computer is constantly popping up boxes that get in your way.
Sometimes it's just to inform you that a wireless network was found...  Other times it's asking for confirmation for something...  Other times it's a warning...  Sometimes it's an error...Folks don't evaluate what the message says, they just make it go away.You can put all the puppies and red numbers and blue squares as you want...  They're still going to click it away just as quick as they can.You could alleviate this to a certain degree by taking away their ability to clear the error message.
Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box.
They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need.
Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315648</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>SirTicksAlot</author>
	<datestamp>1267457520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sometimes Linux errors aren't <i>that</i> useful. Granted they are more useful than most Windows errors. <br>
<br>
I've started collecting some of the less "useful" ones just for fun. <a href="http://www.solar1.net/index.php?pid=5" title="solar1.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.solar1.net/index.php?pid=5</a> [solar1.net]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometimes Linux errors are n't that useful .
Granted they are more useful than most Windows errors .
I 've started collecting some of the less " useful " ones just for fun .
http : //www.solar1.net/index.php ? pid = 5 [ solar1.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometimes Linux errors aren't that useful.
Granted they are more useful than most Windows errors.
I've started collecting some of the less "useful" ones just for fun.
http://www.solar1.net/index.php?pid=5 [solar1.net]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323728</id>
	<title>The problem is in the design</title>
	<author>chadfactor</author>
	<datestamp>1267444800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason user's don't read the error messages is largely because, they don't mean anything to anyone but the person who wrote the application or environment. I have been a software developer for over 10 years, and I have difficulty understanding half the error messages I read on a daily basis.

Developers, majoritively, lack the understanding that the people who will see their error messages the most, have no idea what 'data' or 'uninitialized' even mean. Even if they do know that basic stuff, that doesn't mean to say they know how it relates to the specific application and what has gone wrong.

They will never remember what it said.

If you speak english as your only language and you read a sign containing 10 or 20 words in arabic.... are you going to remember what it said half an hour or a day later when you speak with your support guy ? I doubt it.

People ignore and fear what they don't understand.

Make useful error messages, and people will most likely not only remember what went wrong, they may know how to fix it themselves.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason user 's do n't read the error messages is largely because , they do n't mean anything to anyone but the person who wrote the application or environment .
I have been a software developer for over 10 years , and I have difficulty understanding half the error messages I read on a daily basis .
Developers , majoritively , lack the understanding that the people who will see their error messages the most , have no idea what 'data ' or 'uninitialized ' even mean .
Even if they do know that basic stuff , that does n't mean to say they know how it relates to the specific application and what has gone wrong .
They will never remember what it said .
If you speak english as your only language and you read a sign containing 10 or 20 words in arabic.... are you going to remember what it said half an hour or a day later when you speak with your support guy ?
I doubt it .
People ignore and fear what they do n't understand .
Make useful error messages , and people will most likely not only remember what went wrong , they may know how to fix it themselves .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason user's don't read the error messages is largely because, they don't mean anything to anyone but the person who wrote the application or environment.
I have been a software developer for over 10 years, and I have difficulty understanding half the error messages I read on a daily basis.
Developers, majoritively, lack the understanding that the people who will see their error messages the most, have no idea what 'data' or 'uninitialized' even mean.
Even if they do know that basic stuff, that doesn't mean to say they know how it relates to the specific application and what has gone wrong.
They will never remember what it said.
If you speak english as your only language and you read a sign containing 10 or 20 words in arabic.... are you going to remember what it said half an hour or a day later when you speak with your support guy ?
I doubt it.
People ignore and fear what they don't understand.
Make useful error messages, and people will most likely not only remember what went wrong, they may know how to fix it themselves.
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318858</id>
	<title>Not just users</title>
	<author>jbmartin6</author>
	<datestamp>1267469100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think this is the same problem that afflicts tech support staff who don't read any log files or error messages that you submit when opening a ticket.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this is the same problem that afflicts tech support staff who do n't read any log files or error messages that you submit when opening a ticket .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this is the same problem that afflicts tech support staff who don't read any log files or error messages that you submit when opening a ticket.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319172</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>anyGould</author>
	<datestamp>1267470480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error <i>n</i>: there is no message for this error".</p></div><p>This is the truly inexcusable error - you know what the error is (you gave it a number, didn't you?), but didn't bother to put in some text to tell the poor sap what went wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n : there is no message for this error " .This is the truly inexcusable error - you know what the error is ( you gave it a number , did n't you ?
) , but did n't bother to put in some text to tell the poor sap what went wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error".This is the truly inexcusable error - you know what the error is (you gave it a number, didn't you?
), but didn't bother to put in some text to tell the poor sap what went wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31325346</id>
	<title>Science</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should consider looking into books on improving memory. There are very simple techniques that make things easy to remember - like adding movement. E.g. an animation is easier to remember than an icon.</p><p>I'm not that much into memory techniques but say, nine different errors could be nine different animations with combinations of three animals combined with three objects - all interacting differently (dog, rabbit, crow, ball, cake, hat). A dog bites a ball, a rabbit eats a cake. A crow balances on a ball. A rabbit jumps on a hat, a dog burries a cake etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should consider looking into books on improving memory .
There are very simple techniques that make things easy to remember - like adding movement .
E.g. an animation is easier to remember than an icon.I 'm not that much into memory techniques but say , nine different errors could be nine different animations with combinations of three animals combined with three objects - all interacting differently ( dog , rabbit , crow , ball , cake , hat ) .
A dog bites a ball , a rabbit eats a cake .
A crow balances on a ball .
A rabbit jumps on a hat , a dog burries a cake etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should consider looking into books on improving memory.
There are very simple techniques that make things easy to remember - like adding movement.
E.g. an animation is easier to remember than an icon.I'm not that much into memory techniques but say, nine different errors could be nine different animations with combinations of three animals combined with three objects - all interacting differently (dog, rabbit, crow, ball, cake, hat).
A dog bites a ball, a rabbit eats a cake.
A crow balances on a ball.
A rabbit jumps on a hat, a dog burries a cake etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317586</id>
	<title>Ever tried.....</title>
	<author>Tanuki64</author>
	<datestamp>1267464420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>....opening a popup with naked women in it? Error message in a speech bubble? Should draw the attention of at least 50\% of all computer users.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D</htmltext>
<tokenext>....opening a popup with naked women in it ?
Error message in a speech bubble ?
Should draw the attention of at least 50 \ % of all computer users .
: -D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....opening a popup with naked women in it?
Error message in a speech bubble?
Should draw the attention of at least 50\% of all computer users.
:-D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317456</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>sorak</author>
	<datestamp>1267464000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior. With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this.  Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div><p>Windows error messages tend to be along the lines of</p><p><div class="quote"><p>OMG! COOKIES AND FORMS! SOMEBODY'S GOING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY AND EAT YOUR CHILDREN!!!11!!111!!!1<br>Click here if you do not wish to see this message again.</p></div><p> Linux error messages run the gamut, but many of them seem to be exceptions that really mean nothing until you google the exact message and find some page that can tell you that the "null address" error means you do not have the right version of whichever module the application was trying to reference.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior .
With Windows , I ca n't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they 've kinda been trained to do this .
Linux errors are usually more useful , descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window , you have to be more careful .
; - ) Windows error messages tend to be along the lines ofOMG !
COOKIES AND FORMS !
SOMEBODY 'S GOING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY AND EAT YOUR CHILDREN ! ! ! 11 ! ! 111 ! !
! 1Click here if you do not wish to see this message again .
Linux error messages run the gamut , but many of them seem to be exceptions that really mean nothing until you google the exact message and find some page that can tell you that the " null address " error means you do not have the right version of whichever module the application was trying to reference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've often described the action of quickly clicking on ok on whatever window pops up as the wack-a-mole behavior.
With Windows, I can't say I blame users for this behavior because the popups that come up are so frequent and so useless that they've kinda been trained to do this.
Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.
;-)Windows error messages tend to be along the lines ofOMG!
COOKIES AND FORMS!
SOMEBODY'S GOING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY AND EAT YOUR CHILDREN!!!11!!111!!
!1Click here if you do not wish to see this message again.
Linux error messages run the gamut, but many of them seem to be exceptions that really mean nothing until you google the exact message and find some page that can tell you that the "null address" error means you do not have the right version of whichever module the application was trying to reference.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316326</id>
	<title>is that the right question in this story?</title>
	<author>roman\_mir</author>
	<datestamp>1267459680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how do you get users to read?</p><p>Looks like for the software that you are maintaining the question is different: how do you train the users to do what they do without getting the errors?</p><p>I am working on a system that is very new to its users and some of the functionality is much too complex for them to understand intrinsically (actually it requires them to use some simplified form of a regular expression for searching of data they need.)  This wouldn't work for internet search for 99\% of population, so it's not done that way, but in a corporate setup, sometimes specialized functionality is needed.</p><p>So, I put in enough logging and monitored the users actually try to search for various items in real time.  It did 2 things for me: 1.  I called a user when I saw that he/she was trying to search for something, but they clearly misunderstood how to do it.  I called them and immediately explained what they needed, before they became frustrated and gave up or maybe worse, accepted the wrong results as if they were correct.</p><p>2.  I added these types of errors that I detected users doing to a manual page explaining how to use the search.</p><p>Now, obviously it is still a useless page if nobody reads it, but it is part of the manual and for power use of this application a little manual should be read, otherwise the user will not know what to do at all.</p><p>Logging + preventive work, calling them as you observe them trying to do something that will not actually generate an error (in my case) but give them incorrect/incomplete results, because what they do is not the correct way of using the application.</p><p>Later it became obvious that more functionality needed to be added - certain types of search are a bit too complex, so adding a screen with different types of searches being named and the appropriate search expression right there, to be used, instead of typing it by hand.</p><p>Just 'reading errors' may not really be the right question, why are these errors happening?  Are these system errors (runtime errors, network failures, something a user is not responsible for) or are these user generated errors (input errors, incorrect sequence of actions and such.)</p><p>For the first problem you will just have to do more logging and save information to check on it later, and provide users with very generic 'system error, please contact help desk' or some such.  For the second problem it maybe that you need to produce a manual and do training, some business software really cannot be used without training, it's not software for everyone to use at home, so it's not built for people with no knowledge of the business domain and processes in the first place.  As part of their jobs they probably are expected to understand how to use their software correctly and effectively.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how do you get users to read ? Looks like for the software that you are maintaining the question is different : how do you train the users to do what they do without getting the errors ? I am working on a system that is very new to its users and some of the functionality is much too complex for them to understand intrinsically ( actually it requires them to use some simplified form of a regular expression for searching of data they need .
) This would n't work for internet search for 99 \ % of population , so it 's not done that way , but in a corporate setup , sometimes specialized functionality is needed.So , I put in enough logging and monitored the users actually try to search for various items in real time .
It did 2 things for me : 1 .
I called a user when I saw that he/she was trying to search for something , but they clearly misunderstood how to do it .
I called them and immediately explained what they needed , before they became frustrated and gave up or maybe worse , accepted the wrong results as if they were correct.2 .
I added these types of errors that I detected users doing to a manual page explaining how to use the search.Now , obviously it is still a useless page if nobody reads it , but it is part of the manual and for power use of this application a little manual should be read , otherwise the user will not know what to do at all.Logging + preventive work , calling them as you observe them trying to do something that will not actually generate an error ( in my case ) but give them incorrect/incomplete results , because what they do is not the correct way of using the application.Later it became obvious that more functionality needed to be added - certain types of search are a bit too complex , so adding a screen with different types of searches being named and the appropriate search expression right there , to be used , instead of typing it by hand.Just 'reading errors ' may not really be the right question , why are these errors happening ?
Are these system errors ( runtime errors , network failures , something a user is not responsible for ) or are these user generated errors ( input errors , incorrect sequence of actions and such .
) For the first problem you will just have to do more logging and save information to check on it later , and provide users with very generic 'system error , please contact help desk ' or some such .
For the second problem it maybe that you need to produce a manual and do training , some business software really can not be used without training , it 's not software for everyone to use at home , so it 's not built for people with no knowledge of the business domain and processes in the first place .
As part of their jobs they probably are expected to understand how to use their software correctly and effectively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how do you get users to read?Looks like for the software that you are maintaining the question is different: how do you train the users to do what they do without getting the errors?I am working on a system that is very new to its users and some of the functionality is much too complex for them to understand intrinsically (actually it requires them to use some simplified form of a regular expression for searching of data they need.
)  This wouldn't work for internet search for 99\% of population, so it's not done that way, but in a corporate setup, sometimes specialized functionality is needed.So, I put in enough logging and monitored the users actually try to search for various items in real time.
It did 2 things for me: 1.
I called a user when I saw that he/she was trying to search for something, but they clearly misunderstood how to do it.
I called them and immediately explained what they needed, before they became frustrated and gave up or maybe worse, accepted the wrong results as if they were correct.2.
I added these types of errors that I detected users doing to a manual page explaining how to use the search.Now, obviously it is still a useless page if nobody reads it, but it is part of the manual and for power use of this application a little manual should be read, otherwise the user will not know what to do at all.Logging + preventive work, calling them as you observe them trying to do something that will not actually generate an error (in my case) but give them incorrect/incomplete results, because what they do is not the correct way of using the application.Later it became obvious that more functionality needed to be added - certain types of search are a bit too complex, so adding a screen with different types of searches being named and the appropriate search expression right there, to be used, instead of typing it by hand.Just 'reading errors' may not really be the right question, why are these errors happening?
Are these system errors (runtime errors, network failures, something a user is not responsible for) or are these user generated errors (input errors, incorrect sequence of actions and such.
)For the first problem you will just have to do more logging and save information to check on it later, and provide users with very generic 'system error, please contact help desk' or some such.
For the second problem it maybe that you need to produce a manual and do training, some business software really cannot be used without training, it's not software for everyone to use at home, so it's not built for people with no knowledge of the business domain and processes in the first place.
As part of their jobs they probably are expected to understand how to use their software correctly and effectively.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321486</id>
	<title>Re:not gonna happen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267436100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Training adults can help, if we help them read their screen to know where options are and what it is they can do. I am training some 50+ year old ladies as computer beginners. One of them is my mother.</p><p>There is WAY too much information displayed at any one time on any PC. The number one goal of everyone is to use a web browser from day 1 of computer learning. I veer them away from such an advanced task. For some reason they feel entitled to start by what our computer classes used to save for last. We can't really show them DOS and stop-all error messages that were so effective 20 years ago.</p><p>I do highlight that there are Windows, title bars (each for different tasks), menus, then toolbars, then tabs. Each one has a name and particular options. It MUST be read. Then, a browser app will have site header bitmaps, headings, javascript menus, side navigation bars, and finally, the data. If people don't get used to reading even their applications, then anything else popping up will be utterly forgotten in the sea of confusion that their muscle memory will be. You can't determine what every error message will be, but you can show people that certain words will relate to what they are doing, and those messages tend to refer to those words. The more they know before hand about those, the less they will need to call you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Training adults can help , if we help them read their screen to know where options are and what it is they can do .
I am training some 50 + year old ladies as computer beginners .
One of them is my mother.There is WAY too much information displayed at any one time on any PC .
The number one goal of everyone is to use a web browser from day 1 of computer learning .
I veer them away from such an advanced task .
For some reason they feel entitled to start by what our computer classes used to save for last .
We ca n't really show them DOS and stop-all error messages that were so effective 20 years ago.I do highlight that there are Windows , title bars ( each for different tasks ) , menus , then toolbars , then tabs .
Each one has a name and particular options .
It MUST be read .
Then , a browser app will have site header bitmaps , headings , javascript menus , side navigation bars , and finally , the data .
If people do n't get used to reading even their applications , then anything else popping up will be utterly forgotten in the sea of confusion that their muscle memory will be .
You ca n't determine what every error message will be , but you can show people that certain words will relate to what they are doing , and those messages tend to refer to those words .
The more they know before hand about those , the less they will need to call you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Training adults can help, if we help them read their screen to know where options are and what it is they can do.
I am training some 50+ year old ladies as computer beginners.
One of them is my mother.There is WAY too much information displayed at any one time on any PC.
The number one goal of everyone is to use a web browser from day 1 of computer learning.
I veer them away from such an advanced task.
For some reason they feel entitled to start by what our computer classes used to save for last.
We can't really show them DOS and stop-all error messages that were so effective 20 years ago.I do highlight that there are Windows, title bars (each for different tasks), menus, then toolbars, then tabs.
Each one has a name and particular options.
It MUST be read.
Then, a browser app will have site header bitmaps, headings, javascript menus, side navigation bars, and finally, the data.
If people don't get used to reading even their applications, then anything else popping up will be utterly forgotten in the sea of confusion that their muscle memory will be.
You can't determine what every error message will be, but you can show people that certain words will relate to what they are doing, and those messages tend to refer to those words.
The more they know before hand about those, the less they will need to call you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317348</id>
	<title>I have opposite problem</title>
	<author>Brett Buck</author>
	<datestamp>1267463580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whenever I have a problem, and call the IT department in our huge company, I can't get anyone to pay attention to the error message. I say "I got an error message saying xxxx". They say, "uh, yeah, that's great, we are going to re-image your machine".</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brett</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whenever I have a problem , and call the IT department in our huge company , I ca n't get anyone to pay attention to the error message .
I say " I got an error message saying xxxx " .
They say , " uh , yeah , that 's great , we are going to re-image your machine " .
        Brett</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whenever I have a problem, and call the IT department in our huge company, I can't get anyone to pay attention to the error message.
I say "I got an error message saying xxxx".
They say, "uh, yeah, that's great, we are going to re-image your machine".
        Brett</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316592</id>
	<title>Reading not a technical problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't a problem with computers or electronics, its a problem with that people cannot or don't READ what is in front of them. They lack any self-motivation to learn and as a result when something appears broken they assume it is. Basically everyone is such an idiot that if they hadn't been taught which end food goes in their bodies then they probably would all be dead by 3 years old.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't a problem with computers or electronics , its a problem with that people can not or do n't READ what is in front of them .
They lack any self-motivation to learn and as a result when something appears broken they assume it is .
Basically everyone is such an idiot that if they had n't been taught which end food goes in their bodies then they probably would all be dead by 3 years old .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't a problem with computers or electronics, its a problem with that people cannot or don't READ what is in front of them.
They lack any self-motivation to learn and as a result when something appears broken they assume it is.
Basically everyone is such an idiot that if they hadn't been taught which end food goes in their bodies then they probably would all be dead by 3 years old.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319858</id>
	<title>As a professional dev here is my words!</title>
	<author>el\_jake</author>
	<datestamp>1267473060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do not make code errors, should the impossible surface then:  <br> <br>
On Windows&gt; pop some reg's in HAL divide them with zero reg's and tada a blues screen will display nicely in front of the user it's a very clean and nice way to display error messages on Windows. The user will feel home..<br> <br>
On Linux&gt; impostor a module, call a stack send some nulls, voids whatever the core dumb's. All Linux users reads there daily core dumb's. So this is a fine place for error messages.<br> <br>
On Mac&gt; Show the beach ball in an infinite loop. Mac users don't know how to read error messages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not make code errors , should the impossible surface then : On Windows &gt; pop some reg 's in HAL divide them with zero reg 's and tada a blues screen will display nicely in front of the user it 's a very clean and nice way to display error messages on Windows .
The user will feel home. . On Linux &gt; impostor a module , call a stack send some nulls , voids whatever the core dumb 's .
All Linux users reads there daily core dumb 's .
So this is a fine place for error messages .
On Mac &gt; Show the beach ball in an infinite loop .
Mac users do n't know how to read error messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not make code errors, should the impossible surface then:   
On Windows&gt; pop some reg's in HAL divide them with zero reg's and tada a blues screen will display nicely in front of the user it's a very clean and nice way to display error messages on Windows.
The user will feel home.. 
On Linux&gt; impostor a module, call a stack send some nulls, voids whatever the core dumb's.
All Linux users reads there daily core dumb's.
So this is a fine place for error messages.
On Mac&gt; Show the beach ball in an infinite loop.
Mac users don't know how to read error messages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317560</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife once had a boss who told her entire department in a fit of rage that they could all be replaced by "three lines of code."</p><p>The funny part?  It was the graphic design department.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife once had a boss who told her entire department in a fit of rage that they could all be replaced by " three lines of code .
" The funny part ?
It was the graphic design department .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife once had a boss who told her entire department in a fit of rage that they could all be replaced by "three lines of code.
"The funny part?
It was the graphic design department.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319828</id>
	<title>Try Audio.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267472880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>10 years ago, I ran a few Linux print servers in an otherwise OS/2-only envirunment (yep, that was the banking world 10 years ago, IBM all the way).  As I couldn't access SSH from the OS/2 machines (they were too locked down to install additional software), and didn't always have access to a Linux box with a SSH client on it, I had resorted to use different beeps for relaying status messages.  The server would go beep-Beep-BEEEEP (melodic ascending beeps like C-E-G) for every successful job and meep-meep for every failed one.  So when folks called in, all I had to do was ask them to hold the phone against the server while someone else triggered the print job again.  The specific issues we had were reproducable, i.e. if a job failed with a meep-meep the first time, it would fail on all subsequent tries as well, and it had exactly one cause, so we knew where to look. If it would play the melody, but still wouldn't print, we knew it was something like paper jam, paper empty, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>10 years ago , I ran a few Linux print servers in an otherwise OS/2-only envirunment ( yep , that was the banking world 10 years ago , IBM all the way ) .
As I could n't access SSH from the OS/2 machines ( they were too locked down to install additional software ) , and did n't always have access to a Linux box with a SSH client on it , I had resorted to use different beeps for relaying status messages .
The server would go beep-Beep-BEEEEP ( melodic ascending beeps like C-E-G ) for every successful job and meep-meep for every failed one .
So when folks called in , all I had to do was ask them to hold the phone against the server while someone else triggered the print job again .
The specific issues we had were reproducable , i.e .
if a job failed with a meep-meep the first time , it would fail on all subsequent tries as well , and it had exactly one cause , so we knew where to look .
If it would play the melody , but still would n't print , we knew it was something like paper jam , paper empty , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>10 years ago, I ran a few Linux print servers in an otherwise OS/2-only envirunment (yep, that was the banking world 10 years ago, IBM all the way).
As I couldn't access SSH from the OS/2 machines (they were too locked down to install additional software), and didn't always have access to a Linux box with a SSH client on it, I had resorted to use different beeps for relaying status messages.
The server would go beep-Beep-BEEEEP (melodic ascending beeps like C-E-G) for every successful job and meep-meep for every failed one.
So when folks called in, all I had to do was ask them to hold the phone against the server while someone else triggered the print job again.
The specific issues we had were reproducable, i.e.
if a job failed with a meep-meep the first time, it would fail on all subsequent tries as well, and it had exactly one cause, so we knew where to look.
If it would play the melody, but still wouldn't print, we knew it was something like paper jam, paper empty, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323698</id>
	<title>Re:Error messages are for the programmers, not use</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267444620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe it was a "percentage of browsers visited this webpage" component.</p><p>Also, it's easy to bitch about such things in hindsight. It's also easy to \_imagine\_ getting permission to send log files automagically to the supplier, rather than \_actually\_ getting permission.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe it was a " percentage of browsers visited this webpage " component.Also , it 's easy to bitch about such things in hindsight .
It 's also easy to \ _imagine \ _ getting permission to send log files automagically to the supplier , rather than \ _actually \ _ getting permission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe it was a "percentage of browsers visited this webpage" component.Also, it's easy to bitch about such things in hindsight.
It's also easy to \_imagine\_ getting permission to send log files automagically to the supplier, rather than \_actually\_ getting permission.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315634</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323416</id>
	<title>boxes that you click away</title>
	<author>Mirar</author>
	<datestamp>1267443240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem seems to be the boxes that you click away. Everyone gets a million of those boxes every day, noone reads them and they are clicked away as fast as possible because you're busy and don't have time to read silly things.</p><p>So, maybe:</p><p>1) there should only be boxes that are important</p><p>or</p><p>2) the actually important messages should appear elsewhere, for instance on a part of the screen that stays there and doesn't have to be clicked away</p><p>The second solution would actually solve the tech support problem. "Read to me the red text in the bottom right of the screen", would be much easier to answer than "what was in one of the million boxes you clicked away earlier today that was actually important".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem seems to be the boxes that you click away .
Everyone gets a million of those boxes every day , noone reads them and they are clicked away as fast as possible because you 're busy and do n't have time to read silly things.So , maybe : 1 ) there should only be boxes that are importantor2 ) the actually important messages should appear elsewhere , for instance on a part of the screen that stays there and does n't have to be clicked awayThe second solution would actually solve the tech support problem .
" Read to me the red text in the bottom right of the screen " , would be much easier to answer than " what was in one of the million boxes you clicked away earlier today that was actually important " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem seems to be the boxes that you click away.
Everyone gets a million of those boxes every day, noone reads them and they are clicked away as fast as possible because you're busy and don't have time to read silly things.So, maybe:1) there should only be boxes that are importantor2) the actually important messages should appear elsewhere, for instance on a part of the screen that stays there and doesn't have to be clicked awayThe second solution would actually solve the tech support problem.
"Read to me the red text in the bottom right of the screen", would be much easier to answer than "what was in one of the million boxes you clicked away earlier today that was actually important".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315914</id>
	<title>Your may be thinking to much</title>
	<author>whitedsepdivine</author>
	<datestamp>1267458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I find there are really two scenarios: unknown error, or a known situation.   Displaying an error really should be a default error by security principle.   Let&rsquo;s say you have a login screen.  You would not want to have multiple errors: username does not exist, password is incorrect, and your account has been locked.  You give a hacker the information that they have a proper username, and that their next attempts are in vain.  By simply saying invalid credentials, you cover all cases.  Additionally if you have a know situation, of system being used improperly you should either thrown a security exception, or handle the situation.  You should create more of an information, or user manual on proper use and call it a day.

If you have a global application wide catch for unhandled exceptions, you can log information and decided if the user should be logged out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find there are really two scenarios : unknown error , or a known situation .
Displaying an error really should be a default error by security principle .
Let    s say you have a login screen .
You would not want to have multiple errors : username does not exist , password is incorrect , and your account has been locked .
You give a hacker the information that they have a proper username , and that their next attempts are in vain .
By simply saying invalid credentials , you cover all cases .
Additionally if you have a know situation , of system being used improperly you should either thrown a security exception , or handle the situation .
You should create more of an information , or user manual on proper use and call it a day .
If you have a global application wide catch for unhandled exceptions , you can log information and decided if the user should be logged out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find there are really two scenarios: unknown error, or a known situation.
Displaying an error really should be a default error by security principle.
Let’s say you have a login screen.
You would not want to have multiple errors: username does not exist, password is incorrect, and your account has been locked.
You give a hacker the information that they have a proper username, and that their next attempts are in vain.
By simply saying invalid credentials, you cover all cases.
Additionally if you have a know situation, of system being used improperly you should either thrown a security exception, or handle the situation.
You should create more of an information, or user manual on proper use and call it a day.
If you have a global application wide catch for unhandled exceptions, you can log information and decided if the user should be logged out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317546</id>
	<title>Worlds longest error message</title>
	<author>jacobsm</author>
	<datestamp>1267464240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has got to be z/OS's IDC3009I message where the combination's of return and reason codes go on for 5165 lines in the message manual.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has got to be z/OS 's IDC3009I message where the combination 's of return and reason codes go on for 5165 lines in the message manual .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has got to be z/OS's IDC3009I message where the combination's of return and reason codes go on for 5165 lines in the message manual.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321042</id>
	<title>Just in case nobody has said it....  porn</title>
	<author>SpacePunk</author>
	<datestamp>1267434540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, porn is the answer.  Users will pay attention to error messages if there are tits and ass in them, or bait n tackle for the ladies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , porn is the answer .
Users will pay attention to error messages if there are tits and ass in them , or bait n tackle for the ladies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, porn is the answer.
Users will pay attention to error messages if there are tits and ass in them, or bait n tackle for the ladies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322118</id>
	<title>Re:Guru Meditation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267438380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it was more than that. If a process wasn't doing anything, or you got an AmigaDOS error displayed at the top of the window, you just typed "WHY". It would then use the FAULT command to dig up the reason for error ###, or why the process was stuck. Ferinstance...</p><p>&gt;FORMAT DF0: NAME wombat<br>
&nbsp; ERROR 214, can't continue...<br>&gt;WHY<br>
&nbsp; ERROR 214, Disk is write-protected</p><p>Now, the Guru was actually a step backwards, as it displayed something like:<br>
&nbsp; Guru Meditation, C1000086 : 81000004 (in red)<br>with NO OS-level command to decipher it. Later, the Public Domain solved that with commands that you could just plop into your C: directory that would do this for you (see Fred Fish or AmiNet), if you didn't feel like flipping through your Abacus AmigaDOS Quick Ref. Guide.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it was more than that .
If a process was n't doing anything , or you got an AmigaDOS error displayed at the top of the window , you just typed " WHY " .
It would then use the FAULT command to dig up the reason for error # # # , or why the process was stuck .
Ferinstance... &gt; FORMAT DF0 : NAME wombat   ERROR 214 , ca n't continue... &gt; WHY   ERROR 214 , Disk is write-protectedNow , the Guru was actually a step backwards , as it displayed something like :   Guru Meditation , C1000086 : 81000004 ( in red ) with NO OS-level command to decipher it .
Later , the Public Domain solved that with commands that you could just plop into your C : directory that would do this for you ( see Fred Fish or AmiNet ) , if you did n't feel like flipping through your Abacus AmigaDOS Quick Ref .
Guide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it was more than that.
If a process wasn't doing anything, or you got an AmigaDOS error displayed at the top of the window, you just typed "WHY".
It would then use the FAULT command to dig up the reason for error ###, or why the process was stuck.
Ferinstance...&gt;FORMAT DF0: NAME wombat
  ERROR 214, can't continue...&gt;WHY
  ERROR 214, Disk is write-protectedNow, the Guru was actually a step backwards, as it displayed something like:
  Guru Meditation, C1000086 : 81000004 (in red)with NO OS-level command to decipher it.
Later, the Public Domain solved that with commands that you could just plop into your C: directory that would do this for you (see Fred Fish or AmiNet), if you didn't feel like flipping through your Abacus AmigaDOS Quick Ref.
Guide.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315806</id>
	<title>Don't tell what went wrong</title>
	<author>Erik Hensema</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"uninitialized data" is meaningless. It's something only a programmer would understand.</p><p>Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.</p><p>"No recipient address given. Please enter the the e-mail address of the recipient and try again".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" uninitialized data " is meaningless .
It 's something only a programmer would understand.Instead tell the user what * he * did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation .
" No recipient address given .
Please enter the the e-mail address of the recipient and try again " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"uninitialized data" is meaningless.
It's something only a programmer would understand.Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.
"No recipient address given.
Please enter the the e-mail address of the recipient and try again".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315654</id>
	<title>Your wasting your time</title>
	<author>onyxruby</author>
	<datestamp>1267457520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first thing you need to learn, that your slowly starting to learn, is that your user base can't be bothered. If they click a button and the error message goes away than they consider their problem gone. Unless they can no longer use their needed application, they will not both bother to call it in.</p><p>Look at the user experience for someone who does have to call it in. In many companies this means a call to a helpdesk in India, an aggravating set of phone menus and an unpleasant conversation. However if they just click the button, use task manager or reboot than they have 'solved' their problem themselves.</p><p>What you need to do is to adapt to your users instead of trying to get your users to adapt to you. Set up software on their computer that monitors for certain error codes. You can fairly easily set up different tools to look in the log files for certain events and than do something about it. That something could be as simple as a timestamp, taking a screenshot, recording all open applications and services and sending a notification to your helpdesk with the requisite log file.</p><p>Short of using something like another commentator said about disabling the users ability to do anything other than to report by using penalties, there isn't anything you can do get a user to report because the bottom line is that they can't be bothered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first thing you need to learn , that your slowly starting to learn , is that your user base ca n't be bothered .
If they click a button and the error message goes away than they consider their problem gone .
Unless they can no longer use their needed application , they will not both bother to call it in.Look at the user experience for someone who does have to call it in .
In many companies this means a call to a helpdesk in India , an aggravating set of phone menus and an unpleasant conversation .
However if they just click the button , use task manager or reboot than they have 'solved ' their problem themselves.What you need to do is to adapt to your users instead of trying to get your users to adapt to you .
Set up software on their computer that monitors for certain error codes .
You can fairly easily set up different tools to look in the log files for certain events and than do something about it .
That something could be as simple as a timestamp , taking a screenshot , recording all open applications and services and sending a notification to your helpdesk with the requisite log file.Short of using something like another commentator said about disabling the users ability to do anything other than to report by using penalties , there is n't anything you can do get a user to report because the bottom line is that they ca n't be bothered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first thing you need to learn, that your slowly starting to learn, is that your user base can't be bothered.
If they click a button and the error message goes away than they consider their problem gone.
Unless they can no longer use their needed application, they will not both bother to call it in.Look at the user experience for someone who does have to call it in.
In many companies this means a call to a helpdesk in India, an aggravating set of phone menus and an unpleasant conversation.
However if they just click the button, use task manager or reboot than they have 'solved' their problem themselves.What you need to do is to adapt to your users instead of trying to get your users to adapt to you.
Set up software on their computer that monitors for certain error codes.
You can fairly easily set up different tools to look in the log files for certain events and than do something about it.
That something could be as simple as a timestamp, taking a screenshot, recording all open applications and services and sending a notification to your helpdesk with the requisite log file.Short of using something like another commentator said about disabling the users ability to do anything other than to report by using penalties, there isn't anything you can do get a user to report because the bottom line is that they can't be bothered.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318536</id>
	<title>Make the process more interactive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267467900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Users are more likely to remember data that they interact with rather than receive passively.</p><p>1) When an error occurs, the error code is given by the first word on three different pages of the user manual which the user must look up and type them in. Now they're reading the manual! Code wheels from old Apple II games and Pantone color swatch books could also be used. To encourage users to write errors down, the process could be repeated at random intervals throughout the day.</p><p>2) Make up bingo cards filled with randomly selected error messages. Winning cards can be verified against the logs. Encourage victory shouts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users are more likely to remember data that they interact with rather than receive passively.1 ) When an error occurs , the error code is given by the first word on three different pages of the user manual which the user must look up and type them in .
Now they 're reading the manual !
Code wheels from old Apple II games and Pantone color swatch books could also be used .
To encourage users to write errors down , the process could be repeated at random intervals throughout the day.2 ) Make up bingo cards filled with randomly selected error messages .
Winning cards can be verified against the logs .
Encourage victory shouts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users are more likely to remember data that they interact with rather than receive passively.1) When an error occurs, the error code is given by the first word on three different pages of the user manual which the user must look up and type them in.
Now they're reading the manual!
Code wheels from old Apple II games and Pantone color swatch books could also be used.
To encourage users to write errors down, the process could be repeated at random intervals throughout the day.2) Make up bingo cards filled with randomly selected error messages.
Winning cards can be verified against the logs.
Encourage victory shouts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317620</id>
	<title>Getting Admins to read manuals...</title>
	<author>Fujisawa Sensei</author>
	<datestamp>1267464600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure how you get lusers to read error messages. But the best way to get Admins to RTFM is to disguise the manual as smut.  They will read every word trying to find it.</p><p>Getting them to follow the instructions they just read is yet another mystery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure how you get lusers to read error messages .
But the best way to get Admins to RTFM is to disguise the manual as smut .
They will read every word trying to find it.Getting them to follow the instructions they just read is yet another mystery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure how you get lusers to read error messages.
But the best way to get Admins to RTFM is to disguise the manual as smut.
They will read every word trying to find it.Getting them to follow the instructions they just read is yet another mystery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316602</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sir,<br>Congratulations.  You <i>Get It</i> like no other slashbot.  You can't possibly be a sysad with that sort of attitude.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sir,Congratulations .
You Get It like no other slashbot .
You ca n't possibly be a sysad with that sort of attitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sir,Congratulations.
You Get It like no other slashbot.
You can't possibly be a sysad with that sort of attitude.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316104</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>steveb3210</author>
	<datestamp>1267459020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.  Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/" title="thinkgeek.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/</a> [thinkgeek.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like their jobs are easily automated .
Tell them if they do n't pay closer attention to error messages you 'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program .
; ) http : //www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/ [ thinkgeek.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.
Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.
;) http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/ [thinkgeek.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318114</id>
	<title>Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267466400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side. Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract? No? Well, it's a lot. If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself.""</p><p>So, basically, it was "If you want to keep your fat support contract, don't bother trying to improve our ability to support ourselves."  Sounds like a stupid answer to me that isn't to their advantage, but, hey, they're paying the bills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Eventually , someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side .
Basically , he said " Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract ?
No ? Well , it 's a lot .
If I have any problems that do n't fix themselves in under five minutes , I 'm going to pick up the phone and call you .
I 'm paying you to support me if I have trouble , I should n't have to troubleshoot it myself .
" " So , basically , it was " If you want to keep your fat support contract , do n't bother trying to improve our ability to support ourselves .
" Sounds like a stupid answer to me that is n't to their advantage , but , hey , they 're paying the bills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side.
Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract?
No? Well, it's a lot.
If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you.
I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself.
""So, basically, it was "If you want to keep your fat support contract, don't bother trying to improve our ability to support ourselves.
"  Sounds like a stupid answer to me that isn't to their advantage, but, hey, they're paying the bills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322908</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1267441260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my IT department we had a word for people like you.</p><p>Dickheads who deserve to be fired for doing exactly the opposite of what their job is.</p><p>Your job<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... is to make the software work so they can use it.  Your job, is to translate what users tell you into something useful.  Your job, is to help the users get their jobs done.</p><p>The INSTANT you start doing ANYTHING to make them LESS efficient, even short term, your ass would be fired so fast you wouldn't realize it happened.</p><p>You don't deserve to have the job since you clearly aren't willing to do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my IT department we had a word for people like you.Dickheads who deserve to be fired for doing exactly the opposite of what their job is.Your job ... is to make the software work so they can use it .
Your job , is to translate what users tell you into something useful .
Your job , is to help the users get their jobs done.The INSTANT you start doing ANYTHING to make them LESS efficient , even short term , your ass would be fired so fast you would n't realize it happened.You do n't deserve to have the job since you clearly are n't willing to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my IT department we had a word for people like you.Dickheads who deserve to be fired for doing exactly the opposite of what their job is.Your job ... is to make the software work so they can use it.
Your job, is to translate what users tell you into something useful.
Your job, is to help the users get their jobs done.The INSTANT you start doing ANYTHING to make them LESS efficient, even short term, your ass would be fired so fast you wouldn't realize it happened.You don't deserve to have the job since you clearly aren't willing to do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315296</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316518</id>
	<title>Two phrases</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have been working in tech support as long as you say you should already be familiar with two specific phrases: "please show me / do what it was you were doing when the error came up" and "read me the exact error message you just got."  The rest of this is a waste of time.  If they want to be rude and Not do these two things you ask just inform them to write the error done the nex time they get it and backburner them until they do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have been working in tech support as long as you say you should already be familiar with two specific phrases : " please show me / do what it was you were doing when the error came up " and " read me the exact error message you just got .
" The rest of this is a waste of time .
If they want to be rude and Not do these two things you ask just inform them to write the error done the nex time they get it and backburner them until they do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have been working in tech support as long as you say you should already be familiar with two specific phrases: "please show me / do what it was you were doing when the error came up" and "read me the exact error message you just got.
"  The rest of this is a waste of time.
If they want to be rude and Not do these two things you ask just inform them to write the error done the nex time they get it and backburner them until they do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321460</id>
	<title>Best idea</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1267435980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Developers need to start making it so error messages don't go away until you reply to an question asking what caused the error to ensure they read it. If they fail at that then they should stick to pen and paper.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Developers need to start making it so error messages do n't go away until you reply to an question asking what caused the error to ensure they read it .
If they fail at that then they should stick to pen and paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Developers need to start making it so error messages don't go away until you reply to an question asking what caused the error to ensure they read it.
If they fail at that then they should stick to pen and paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31328746</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>zsau</author>
	<datestamp>1267539360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't read those stupid things, I just look at the number counting down and press "OK". The Firefox method seems incredibly stupid to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't read those stupid things , I just look at the number counting down and press " OK " .
The Firefox method seems incredibly stupid to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't read those stupid things, I just look at the number counting down and press "OK".
The Firefox method seems incredibly stupid to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319766</id>
	<title>Mappers vs Packers</title>
	<author>Oloryn</author>
	<datestamp>1267472640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info).  Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information.  I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction.  IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer.  Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset.  Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).</p><p>Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message.  Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down.  Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem.  Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a  problem.  This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Part of what you 're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers ( Google 'The Programmer 's Stone ' for more info ) .
Packers learn by collecting little packets of information , while mappers learn by making mental maps of information .
I do n't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it , but I 've found it to be a useful distinction .
IT types ( especially programmers ) tend to be mappers , while the user is typically a packer .
Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset .
Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information ( as you noted ) .Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable , your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message .
Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message , or writing the error message down .
Try to make it short , but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem .
Since they 're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow , give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a problem .
This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they 're not good at .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Part of what you're running into is the distinction between packers and mappers (Google 'The Programmer's Stone' for more info).
Packers learn by collecting little packets of information, while mappers learn by making mental maps of information.
I don't agree with all the directions the originator of the concept has taken it, but I've found it to be a useful distinction.
IT types (especially programmers) tend to be mappers, while the user is typically a packer.
Businesses tend to run on a Packer mindset.
Packers are typically much more comfortable with memorized procedures than with having to think about unfamiliar information(as you noted).Instead of trying to tweak error messages to make them memorable, your best bet might be to get management to promulgate a procedure to be followed when the user contacts support about an unfamiliar error message.
Make it include grabbing a screen shot of the error message, or writing the error message down.
Try to make it short, but sufficient to capture the typical information that you need to diagnose a problem.
Since they're good at memorizing a set of steps to follow, give them a memorizable set of steps to follow when they encounter a  problem.
This might be more successful than trying to push them into a mode of operation they're not good at.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31372788</id>
	<title>Simple SA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267813320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real issue, seems to me, is to convey some actual information in the error messages.  That is, something more than 'An error has occurred'.  That gives basically no "actionable" direction, but constitutes 80\%-90\% of the messages I troubleshoot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real issue , seems to me , is to convey some actual information in the error messages .
That is , something more than 'An error has occurred' .
That gives basically no " actionable " direction , but constitutes 80 \ % -90 \ % of the messages I troubleshoot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real issue, seems to me, is to convey some actual information in the error messages.
That is, something more than 'An error has occurred'.
That gives basically no "actionable" direction, but constitutes 80\%-90\% of the messages I troubleshoot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316308</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I came to the conclusions that most 'users' out there are actually afraid of computers to a fair degree, not understanding them (and really, not needing to either).  While everything works just fine, they're happy and content, and can do what they're paid to efficiently (or not, depending on the person).<br>When something breaks, unless a message is very, very gentle, it'll only worsen any mental blocks that may arise through the panic reflex (you say "memory error", and they have no idea how that affects them; is the computer about to burst into flames, is their whole work repository about to vanish, if they press a key, will it break more or fix things and so on).<br>Most of the work I put into error schemes is to keep them calm and make sure they're only told stuff that they'd be expected to understand, not what I'd be expected to understand (a small sub-note at the end, or a link to a secondary dialog with support info gives the tech stuff that'd scare them, but I'd understand).<br>All that goes towards keeping them focussed, and as you put, keeping things in 'main memory' for their mental task schedulers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I came to the conclusions that most 'users ' out there are actually afraid of computers to a fair degree , not understanding them ( and really , not needing to either ) .
While everything works just fine , they 're happy and content , and can do what they 're paid to efficiently ( or not , depending on the person ) .When something breaks , unless a message is very , very gentle , it 'll only worsen any mental blocks that may arise through the panic reflex ( you say " memory error " , and they have no idea how that affects them ; is the computer about to burst into flames , is their whole work repository about to vanish , if they press a key , will it break more or fix things and so on ) .Most of the work I put into error schemes is to keep them calm and make sure they 're only told stuff that they 'd be expected to understand , not what I 'd be expected to understand ( a small sub-note at the end , or a link to a secondary dialog with support info gives the tech stuff that 'd scare them , but I 'd understand ) .All that goes towards keeping them focussed , and as you put , keeping things in 'main memory ' for their mental task schedulers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I came to the conclusions that most 'users' out there are actually afraid of computers to a fair degree, not understanding them (and really, not needing to either).
While everything works just fine, they're happy and content, and can do what they're paid to efficiently (or not, depending on the person).When something breaks, unless a message is very, very gentle, it'll only worsen any mental blocks that may arise through the panic reflex (you say "memory error", and they have no idea how that affects them; is the computer about to burst into flames, is their whole work repository about to vanish, if they press a key, will it break more or fix things and so on).Most of the work I put into error schemes is to keep them calm and make sure they're only told stuff that they'd be expected to understand, not what I'd be expected to understand (a small sub-note at the end, or a link to a secondary dialog with support info gives the tech stuff that'd scare them, but I'd understand).All that goes towards keeping them focussed, and as you put, keeping things in 'main memory' for their mental task schedulers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31328152</id>
	<title>Two things...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267531740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>boobs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>boobs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>boobs</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317432</id>
	<title>Re:A good plot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267463880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWD\_\_SofA-A" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWD\_\_SofA-A</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = xWD \ _ \ _SofA-A [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWD\_\_SofA-A [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319486</id>
	<title>Haptic feedback</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1267471680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls. And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it.</p></div></blockquote><p>That is indeed a tempting thought. Maybe get one of <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/1/" title="penny-arcade.com">these</a> [penny-arcade.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls .
And if they forgot it anyhow , I could always help them reproduce it.That is indeed a tempting thought .
Maybe get one of these [ penny-arcade.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a swift kick in the balls.
And if they forgot it anyhow, I could always help them reproduce it.That is indeed a tempting thought.
Maybe get one of these [penny-arcade.com].
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323542</id>
	<title>Don't Ask - Look For Yourself</title>
	<author>Flere Imsaho</author>
	<datestamp>1267443840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't bother asking users to describe anything any more. I just remote in with UltraVNC and have a look myself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't bother asking users to describe anything any more .
I just remote in with UltraVNC and have a look myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't bother asking users to describe anything any more.
I just remote in with UltraVNC and have a look myself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315844</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>nedlohs</author>
	<datestamp>1267458240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The rest of us aren't perfect. Hence there are some bugs in the code that the user can trigger.</p><p>Sure we could hide them and not show error messages and let the user continue working oblivious to the fact that the data is never going to be saved because our database connection dropped and won't reconnect. I suspect our users will be less happy with that situation than getting an error message and calling support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The rest of us are n't perfect .
Hence there are some bugs in the code that the user can trigger.Sure we could hide them and not show error messages and let the user continue working oblivious to the fact that the data is never going to be saved because our database connection dropped and wo n't reconnect .
I suspect our users will be less happy with that situation than getting an error message and calling support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The rest of us aren't perfect.
Hence there are some bugs in the code that the user can trigger.Sure we could hide them and not show error messages and let the user continue working oblivious to the fact that the data is never going to be saved because our database connection dropped and won't reconnect.
I suspect our users will be less happy with that situation than getting an error message and calling support.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315776</id>
	<title>"Puppy error" is actually a good idea!</title>
	<author>wowbagger</author>
	<datestamp>1267458000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ALL people remember what is important to them, and do so by relating it to things they already understand. We software types can relate messages like "too few file descriptors" to things we understand - WE know what a "file descriptor" is. Imagine that the error message instead said something like "LO VCO UNLOCK", or "Wrong mode for DX window": while some of the people here might understand those messages, unless you are a radio guy they are meaningless, and you have nothing in your world experience to which to relate them. I'm sure many of you can add your own problem-domain specific errors here.</p><p>Adding error numbers: "Error -522: LO VCO UNLOCK" doesn't help - unless the number "-522" has some special meaning to you, you still won't be able to relate it to your world.</p><p>However, thinks like puppies, colors (save for those who are color blind), and simple shapes are things most people can relate to. So the idea of "[image of sad puppy] LO VCO UNLOCK" can resonate with users of all stripes.</p><p>I'd suggest that any such errors log the details, even across runs, and that there be a way to retrieve the error data and send it onward to you as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ALL people remember what is important to them , and do so by relating it to things they already understand .
We software types can relate messages like " too few file descriptors " to things we understand - WE know what a " file descriptor " is .
Imagine that the error message instead said something like " LO VCO UNLOCK " , or " Wrong mode for DX window " : while some of the people here might understand those messages , unless you are a radio guy they are meaningless , and you have nothing in your world experience to which to relate them .
I 'm sure many of you can add your own problem-domain specific errors here.Adding error numbers : " Error -522 : LO VCO UNLOCK " does n't help - unless the number " -522 " has some special meaning to you , you still wo n't be able to relate it to your world.However , thinks like puppies , colors ( save for those who are color blind ) , and simple shapes are things most people can relate to .
So the idea of " [ image of sad puppy ] LO VCO UNLOCK " can resonate with users of all stripes.I 'd suggest that any such errors log the details , even across runs , and that there be a way to retrieve the error data and send it onward to you as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ALL people remember what is important to them, and do so by relating it to things they already understand.
We software types can relate messages like "too few file descriptors" to things we understand - WE know what a "file descriptor" is.
Imagine that the error message instead said something like "LO VCO UNLOCK", or "Wrong mode for DX window": while some of the people here might understand those messages, unless you are a radio guy they are meaningless, and you have nothing in your world experience to which to relate them.
I'm sure many of you can add your own problem-domain specific errors here.Adding error numbers: "Error -522: LO VCO UNLOCK" doesn't help - unless the number "-522" has some special meaning to you, you still won't be able to relate it to your world.However, thinks like puppies, colors (save for those who are color blind), and simple shapes are things most people can relate to.
So the idea of "[image of sad puppy] LO VCO UNLOCK" can resonate with users of all stripes.I'd suggest that any such errors log the details, even across runs, and that there be a way to retrieve the error data and send it onward to you as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316502</id>
	<title>You can lead a horse to water</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1267460460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>but you can't make it to drink. So the best way would be to take over their PC. As long as there is no connection issue, then this is much faster and will save you a lot of time. If you use pc Anywhere or <a href="http://showmypc.com/" title="showmypc.com">http://showmypc.com/</a> [showmypc.com] or anything else will depend on your needs.</p><p>ShowMyPc has helped me a lot already. For occasional usage it is free. I you want your own server andadvertising, prices are available as well and not that expensive.</p><p>But again, Internet access should be available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but you ca n't make it to drink .
So the best way would be to take over their PC .
As long as there is no connection issue , then this is much faster and will save you a lot of time .
If you use pc Anywhere or http : //showmypc.com/ [ showmypc.com ] or anything else will depend on your needs.ShowMyPc has helped me a lot already .
For occasional usage it is free .
I you want your own server andadvertising , prices are available as well and not that expensive.But again , Internet access should be available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but you can't make it to drink.
So the best way would be to take over their PC.
As long as there is no connection issue, then this is much faster and will save you a lot of time.
If you use pc Anywhere or http://showmypc.com/ [showmypc.com] or anything else will depend on your needs.ShowMyPc has helped me a lot already.
For occasional usage it is free.
I you want your own server andadvertising, prices are available as well and not that expensive.But again, Internet access should be available.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31327096</id>
	<title>VIRUS DETECTED!</title>
	<author>martynd</author>
	<datestamp>1267472400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Clearly you just need to make it a popup resembling My Computer stating in massive bold capitals VIRUS DETECTED ON YOUR COMPUTER! TO REMOVE IT DO THE FOLLOWING:<br> <br>

Followed by your error message. Clearly this works for the malware industry, why shouldnt it work for legitimate folks like us?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly you just need to make it a popup resembling My Computer stating in massive bold capitals VIRUS DETECTED ON YOUR COMPUTER !
TO REMOVE IT DO THE FOLLOWING : Followed by your error message .
Clearly this works for the malware industry , why shouldnt it work for legitimate folks like us ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly you just need to make it a popup resembling My Computer stating in massive bold capitals VIRUS DETECTED ON YOUR COMPUTER!
TO REMOVE IT DO THE FOLLOWING: 

Followed by your error message.
Clearly this works for the malware industry, why shouldnt it work for legitimate folks like us?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315646</id>
	<title>Your solution :</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1267457520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny error messages. really funny. not 'microsoft' funny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny error messages .
really funny .
not 'microsoft ' funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny error messages.
really funny.
not 'microsoft' funny.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317716</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1267464900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me)</p></div><p>It can be formally proven that a computer application is equal to an equally complex and incomprehensible formal description. Though whether you're any closer to achieving what you wanted to do in the real world is highly questionable.</p><p>Anyway, there's fundamentally three different types of error messages. One is those where there's an external error condition where you need to inform or guide the user towards fixing it themselves, like say no network connection. Not much choice here, it's beyond your ability to fix.</p><p>The second type are those where you intentionally trap errors, even though you don't know exactly what they are like say a database call or RPC call or HTTP request, here people tend to give way too much information. 99.9\% of the time what you need to do is collect as much as possible in the background, pop up a dialog box asking them what they were doing and a "send report" or "don't send report" buttons. Users aren't interested in SQL errors or stack traces or whatever else you like to pop up while developing/testing it.</p><p>The third are the kind where you didn't expect it, no error catching except maybe very generic ones and most likely is caused by a bug. Long story short, if you knew about the bug you would have fixed it instead of writing a good error message for it so do that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal ( at least that 's what my functional programmer friends tell me ) It can be formally proven that a computer application is equal to an equally complex and incomprehensible formal description .
Though whether you 're any closer to achieving what you wanted to do in the real world is highly questionable.Anyway , there 's fundamentally three different types of error messages .
One is those where there 's an external error condition where you need to inform or guide the user towards fixing it themselves , like say no network connection .
Not much choice here , it 's beyond your ability to fix.The second type are those where you intentionally trap errors , even though you do n't know exactly what they are like say a database call or RPC call or HTTP request , here people tend to give way too much information .
99.9 \ % of the time what you need to do is collect as much as possible in the background , pop up a dialog box asking them what they were doing and a " send report " or " do n't send report " buttons .
Users are n't interested in SQL errors or stack traces or whatever else you like to pop up while developing/testing it.The third are the kind where you did n't expect it , no error catching except maybe very generic ones and most likely is caused by a bug .
Long story short , if you knew about the bug you would have fixed it instead of writing a good error message for it so do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me)It can be formally proven that a computer application is equal to an equally complex and incomprehensible formal description.
Though whether you're any closer to achieving what you wanted to do in the real world is highly questionable.Anyway, there's fundamentally three different types of error messages.
One is those where there's an external error condition where you need to inform or guide the user towards fixing it themselves, like say no network connection.
Not much choice here, it's beyond your ability to fix.The second type are those where you intentionally trap errors, even though you don't know exactly what they are like say a database call or RPC call or HTTP request, here people tend to give way too much information.
99.9\% of the time what you need to do is collect as much as possible in the background, pop up a dialog box asking them what they were doing and a "send report" or "don't send report" buttons.
Users aren't interested in SQL errors or stack traces or whatever else you like to pop up while developing/testing it.The third are the kind where you didn't expect it, no error catching except maybe very generic ones and most likely is caused by a bug.
Long story short, if you knew about the bug you would have fixed it instead of writing a good error message for it so do that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31369542</id>
	<title>Need legible error messages</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267794240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Getting users to read error messages requires (drum roll please!) ERROR MESSAGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING!   Shocking, I know, but most users have absolutely no idea what IRQL = 0x#$\%\%#@ means or why they should care.   On the other hand, an error message such as "USB Driver Failed; if this is the first time reboot, if not call the (no!) help desk" they might actually read the error message and respond.</p><p>I have a Comp Sci degree, and a Masters and almost a Ph.D. in Engineering - and where I work, I don't understand all of the error messages being generated...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting users to read error messages requires ( drum roll please !
) ERROR MESSAGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING !
Shocking , I know , but most users have absolutely no idea what IRQL = 0x # $ \ % \ % # @ means or why they should care .
On the other hand , an error message such as " USB Driver Failed ; if this is the first time reboot , if not call the ( no !
) help desk " they might actually read the error message and respond.I have a Comp Sci degree , and a Masters and almost a Ph.D. in Engineering - and where I work , I do n't understand all of the error messages being generated.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting users to read error messages requires (drum roll please!
) ERROR MESSAGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING!
Shocking, I know, but most users have absolutely no idea what IRQL = 0x#$\%\%#@ means or why they should care.
On the other hand, an error message such as "USB Driver Failed; if this is the first time reboot, if not call the (no!
) help desk" they might actually read the error message and respond.I have a Comp Sci degree, and a Masters and almost a Ph.D. in Engineering - and where I work, I don't understand all of the error messages being generated...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315982</id>
	<title>Why bother?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having used computers since  punch cards, the one thing that error messages have taught me is that they arcane, contain so little information why bother recalling them, the meaning of the message is in some large book that I don't have readily available or "It's not meant for the user to have."  So just call the help desk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having used computers since punch cards , the one thing that error messages have taught me is that they arcane , contain so little information why bother recalling them , the meaning of the message is in some large book that I do n't have readily available or " It 's not meant for the user to have .
" So just call the help desk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having used computers since  punch cards, the one thing that error messages have taught me is that they arcane, contain so little information why bother recalling them, the meaning of the message is in some large book that I don't have readily available or "It's not meant for the user to have.
"  So just call the help desk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317608</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>anegg</author>
	<datestamp>1267464480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cisco IOS: "show tech-support"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cisco IOS : " show tech-support "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cisco IOS: "show tech-support"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</id>
	<title>A good plot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development. Pull the users in with that and then get the error message across.
Ok, seriously, as a writer of error messages at times, I have found putting in 'interesting' wording works sometimes with some of the more intelligent users. Unfortunately, there will always be the ones that just want someone else to do their work.

I suggest that they be burned because they're witches.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development .
Pull the users in with that and then get the error message across .
Ok , seriously , as a writer of error messages at times , I have found putting in 'interesting ' wording works sometimes with some of the more intelligent users .
Unfortunately , there will always be the ones that just want someone else to do their work .
I suggest that they be burned because they 're witches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development.
Pull the users in with that and then get the error message across.
Ok, seriously, as a writer of error messages at times, I have found putting in 'interesting' wording works sometimes with some of the more intelligent users.
Unfortunately, there will always be the ones that just want someone else to do their work.
I suggest that they be burned because they're witches.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316064</id>
	<title>If you're depending on users to read error dialogs</title>
	<author>EXMSFT</author>
	<datestamp>1267458900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're dead in the water already. Users don't read dialogs. End of story. Where else in life besides the computer do humans get interstitial errors that pop up and disrupt what they're doing? Not in the car. Not on the phone. Not reading a book. Error dialogs shouldn't be treated as a problem you have with end users. They should be treated as a problem you have with developers. An inordinate amount of the time, users are presented with dialogs for problems that the software itself could and should resolve, and more importantly, the user can't resolve.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're dead in the water already .
Users do n't read dialogs .
End of story .
Where else in life besides the computer do humans get interstitial errors that pop up and disrupt what they 're doing ?
Not in the car .
Not on the phone .
Not reading a book .
Error dialogs should n't be treated as a problem you have with end users .
They should be treated as a problem you have with developers .
An inordinate amount of the time , users are presented with dialogs for problems that the software itself could and should resolve , and more importantly , the user ca n't resolve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're dead in the water already.
Users don't read dialogs.
End of story.
Where else in life besides the computer do humans get interstitial errors that pop up and disrupt what they're doing?
Not in the car.
Not on the phone.
Not reading a book.
Error dialogs shouldn't be treated as a problem you have with end users.
They should be treated as a problem you have with developers.
An inordinate amount of the time, users are presented with dialogs for problems that the software itself could and should resolve, and more importantly, the user can't resolve.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316586</id>
	<title>You don't "fix" stupid, you fire it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>ultimately you can't fix stupid.</i>

</p><p>You absolutely can.  It's very easy: discipline people and if they keep doing it, fire them.

</p><p>It'll probably only take one person before everyone else starts paying more attention.  In this economy, it's easy to find replacements (especially if the people in your company are really this stupid.)  Lots of folks out there looking for something better than Walmart or flippin' burgers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ultimately you ca n't fix stupid .
You absolutely can .
It 's very easy : discipline people and if they keep doing it , fire them .
It 'll probably only take one person before everyone else starts paying more attention .
In this economy , it 's easy to find replacements ( especially if the people in your company are really this stupid .
) Lots of folks out there looking for something better than Walmart or flippin ' burgers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ultimately you can't fix stupid.
You absolutely can.
It's very easy: discipline people and if they keep doing it, fire them.
It'll probably only take one person before everyone else starts paying more attention.
In this economy, it's easy to find replacements (especially if the people in your company are really this stupid.
)  Lots of folks out there looking for something better than Walmart or flippin' burgers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317038</id>
	<title>A "puppy error" ?  Turn in your BOFH title, pls</title>
	<author>axl917</author>
	<datestamp>1267462380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>/facepalm</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>/facepalm</tokentext>
<sentencetext>/facepalm</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318164</id>
	<title>Take advantage of their addictions</title>
	<author>Rival</author>
	<datestamp>1267466520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your idea has merit, but you need to extend the idea a little further.  Make your error dialogs look like this, and you will get more user participation than you can handle:</p><p>--------<br>INSERT CUTESY PICTURE HERE<br>A little lost $Animal\_Name has wandered onto your farm.  It needs help!  You can add it to your farm, but you need to tame it first.</p><p>To tame it, the magic words are $Magic\_Word\_1, $Magic\_Word\_2, and $Magic\_Word\_3.</p><p>When you are ready, click HERE to tame it and add it to your farm!<br>--------</p><p>You just have a simple lookup table for the $Animal\_Name and $Magic\_Word variables, and you've got all the info you need.  Of course, then you need to make some sort of ridiculous farm app, but that could be a further source of monetization!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your idea has merit , but you need to extend the idea a little further .
Make your error dialogs look like this , and you will get more user participation than you can handle : --------INSERT CUTESY PICTURE HEREA little lost $ Animal \ _Name has wandered onto your farm .
It needs help !
You can add it to your farm , but you need to tame it first.To tame it , the magic words are $ Magic \ _Word \ _1 , $ Magic \ _Word \ _2 , and $ Magic \ _Word \ _3.When you are ready , click HERE to tame it and add it to your farm ! --------You just have a simple lookup table for the $ Animal \ _Name and $ Magic \ _Word variables , and you 've got all the info you need .
Of course , then you need to make some sort of ridiculous farm app , but that could be a further source of monetization !
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your idea has merit, but you need to extend the idea a little further.
Make your error dialogs look like this, and you will get more user participation than you can handle:--------INSERT CUTESY PICTURE HEREA little lost $Animal\_Name has wandered onto your farm.
It needs help!
You can add it to your farm, but you need to tame it first.To tame it, the magic words are $Magic\_Word\_1, $Magic\_Word\_2, and $Magic\_Word\_3.When you are ready, click HERE to tame it and add it to your farm!--------You just have a simple lookup table for the $Animal\_Name and $Magic\_Word variables, and you've got all the info you need.
Of course, then you need to make some sort of ridiculous farm app, but that could be a further source of monetization!
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315716</id>
	<title>Simple,</title>
	<author>pacsloof</author>
	<datestamp>1267457820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Beat them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Beat them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Beat them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315886</id>
	<title>Splunk</title>
	<author>Tuki</author>
	<datestamp>1267458420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Install Splunk and read them on your own.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Install Splunk and read them on your own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Install Splunk and read them on your own.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316866</id>
	<title>everyone's joking so here's a serious reply</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>you can't as each popup is seen as something "in the way" of obtaining the user desired result, no matter what, even if the operation did by the user makes totally no sense in the given context.<br><br>one principle of design is not to allow the user to perform operations that cannot be completed. so for example if you're on a client/server application graying out each window during a disconnection will effectively tells the user that no operation could be done at the moment. couple that with a colorful status message like a "trying to reconnect" progress bar and now you're sure that the user won't try to retry the operations each time dismissing the "unable to connect" error popup without reading it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>you ca n't as each popup is seen as something " in the way " of obtaining the user desired result , no matter what , even if the operation did by the user makes totally no sense in the given context.one principle of design is not to allow the user to perform operations that can not be completed .
so for example if you 're on a client/server application graying out each window during a disconnection will effectively tells the user that no operation could be done at the moment .
couple that with a colorful status message like a " trying to reconnect " progress bar and now you 're sure that the user wo n't try to retry the operations each time dismissing the " unable to connect " error popup without reading it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can't as each popup is seen as something "in the way" of obtaining the user desired result, no matter what, even if the operation did by the user makes totally no sense in the given context.one principle of design is not to allow the user to perform operations that cannot be completed.
so for example if you're on a client/server application graying out each window during a disconnection will effectively tells the user that no operation could be done at the moment.
couple that with a colorful status message like a "trying to reconnect" progress bar and now you're sure that the user won't try to retry the operations each time dismissing the "unable to connect" error popup without reading it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31326478</id>
	<title>Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing!</title>
	<author>cia9*</author>
	<datestamp>1267465620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing! Poor interface design is the problem. This may not be sexy, but: Most error messages are not seen because they are competing for the user's (limited) attention. Common problems: Unexpected placement. Incomprehensible messages. Think like a user, or better yet, conduct usability testing. At @InterfaceGuru, over hundreds of usability tests, we ALWAYS ask users what they see "first." Every application is different, so testing is warranted above and beyond best practices. With all due respect to RFguy, society can only keep up with technology when we make it universally accessible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing !
Poor interface design is the problem .
This may not be sexy , but : Most error messages are not seen because they are competing for the user 's ( limited ) attention .
Common problems : Unexpected placement .
Incomprehensible messages .
Think like a user , or better yet , conduct usability testing .
At @ InterfaceGuru , over hundreds of usability tests , we ALWAYS ask users what they see " first .
" Every application is different , so testing is warranted above and beyond best practices .
With all due respect to RFguy , society can only keep up with technology when we make it universally accessible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop blaming users - conduct usability testing!
Poor interface design is the problem.
This may not be sexy, but: Most error messages are not seen because they are competing for the user's (limited) attention.
Common problems: Unexpected placement.
Incomprehensible messages.
Think like a user, or better yet, conduct usability testing.
At @InterfaceGuru, over hundreds of usability tests, we ALWAYS ask users what they see "first.
" Every application is different, so testing is warranted above and beyond best practices.
With all due respect to RFguy, society can only keep up with technology when we make it universally accessible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315186</id>
	<title>First Post</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>etc</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>etc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>etc</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316008</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I find it humorous that someone talks high and mighty about errors and development but his real world example is MS Access. Sorry guy, it just makes me chuckle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find it humorous that someone talks high and mighty about errors and development but his real world example is MS Access .
Sorry guy , it just makes me chuckle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find it humorous that someone talks high and mighty about errors and development but his real world example is MS Access.
Sorry guy, it just makes me chuckle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316378</id>
	<title>Re:choices</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unexpected date</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unexpected date</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unexpected date</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315426</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316350</id>
	<title>Re:FTFY</title>
	<author>Anonymous Crobar</author>
	<datestamp>1267459740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?</p></div><p>Release your product for Vista.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software ? Release your product for Vista .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?Release your product for Vista.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316248</id>
	<title>Users?</title>
	<author>OMA1981</author>
	<datestamp>1267459500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...I am still trying to find a way to get desktop support techs to read the error messages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...I am still trying to find a way to get desktop support techs to read the error messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I am still trying to find a way to get desktop support techs to read the error messages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319158</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>nickyj</author>
	<datestamp>1267470420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like an idea.</p><p>Make the error message do various things depending on the severity. Small error, make annoying noise. Big error, shuts down program. Huge error, force reboot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like an idea.Make the error message do various things depending on the severity .
Small error , make annoying noise .
Big error , shuts down program .
Huge error , force reboot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like an idea.Make the error message do various things depending on the severity.
Small error, make annoying noise.
Big error, shuts down program.
Huge error, force reboot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317054</id>
	<title>Users??</title>
	<author>Slash.Poop</author>
	<datestamp>1267462500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hell, I am an admin and I don't read error message.<br>
If the same thing pops up 2 or 3 times then I might read it.<br> <br>
TRUTH.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , I am an admin and I do n't read error message .
If the same thing pops up 2 or 3 times then I might read it .
TRUTH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, I am an admin and I don't read error message.
If the same thing pops up 2 or 3 times then I might read it.
TRUTH.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317440</id>
	<title>Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages useful?</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1267463880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine this scenario in a restaurant:</p><p>Your steak is burned on one side, but cold. There's a big pile of a yellow granular unidentified substance piled on top of it. Your waiter comes along and says, "Cook's oven not functioning correctly and unknown substance spilled on top." <i>OK?</i></p><p>In short, most error messages are crap. The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.</p><p>I can't tell you how many times, I see error messages like "Default zone not selected.: OK?" or "Type error on search processing object 23: OK?" Every time I see this crap, I want to bitch slap some lazy son of a bitch and ban all dialogs that only have the "OK" button as a response.</p><p>The CORRECT response to the first example above is something like. "Sorry, you need to select a default zone first. Shall I bring up the dialog that allows you do to this?: "Yes", "No", "Cancel"<br>The CORRECT response to the second example above is to fire the lazy system designer and/or programmer who couldn't be bothered to come up with an intelligent useful response to an error and because of their laziness, wasted thousands of hours of user time, just so they could take an early lunch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine this scenario in a restaurant : Your steak is burned on one side , but cold .
There 's a big pile of a yellow granular unidentified substance piled on top of it .
Your waiter comes along and says , " Cook 's oven not functioning correctly and unknown substance spilled on top .
" OK ? In short , most error messages are crap .
The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.I ca n't tell you how many times , I see error messages like " Default zone not selected .
: OK ?
" or " Type error on search processing object 23 : OK ?
" Every time I see this crap , I want to bitch slap some lazy son of a bitch and ban all dialogs that only have the " OK " button as a response.The CORRECT response to the first example above is something like .
" Sorry , you need to select a default zone first .
Shall I bring up the dialog that allows you do to this ?
: " Yes " , " No " , " Cancel " The CORRECT response to the second example above is to fire the lazy system designer and/or programmer who could n't be bothered to come up with an intelligent useful response to an error and because of their laziness , wasted thousands of hours of user time , just so they could take an early lunch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine this scenario in a restaurant:Your steak is burned on one side, but cold.
There's a big pile of a yellow granular unidentified substance piled on top of it.
Your waiter comes along and says, "Cook's oven not functioning correctly and unknown substance spilled on top.
" OK?In short, most error messages are crap.
The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.I can't tell you how many times, I see error messages like "Default zone not selected.
: OK?
" or "Type error on search processing object 23: OK?
" Every time I see this crap, I want to bitch slap some lazy son of a bitch and ban all dialogs that only have the "OK" button as a response.The CORRECT response to the first example above is something like.
"Sorry, you need to select a default zone first.
Shall I bring up the dialog that allows you do to this?
: "Yes", "No", "Cancel"The CORRECT response to the second example above is to fire the lazy system designer and/or programmer who couldn't be bothered to come up with an intelligent useful response to an error and because of their laziness, wasted thousands of hours of user time, just so they could take an early lunch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315908</id>
	<title>Outsource much?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, let me get this straight.  You have some buggy apps, probably with meaningless error messages that have no correlation to any corrective action that can be taken.  The official solution is to halt work immediately, call the help desk, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... wait?   As an added bonus, you disable Task Manager, so they can't just kill the process and re-launch.  So they get tired of waiting for the helpdesk and reboot instead.  Best of all, they get a coffee break, effectively mandated by the IT department.   The Bangalore Bargain Bin is looking better by the minute.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , let me get this straight .
You have some buggy apps , probably with meaningless error messages that have no correlation to any corrective action that can be taken .
The official solution is to halt work immediately , call the help desk , and ... wait ? As an added bonus , you disable Task Manager , so they ca n't just kill the process and re-launch .
So they get tired of waiting for the helpdesk and reboot instead .
Best of all , they get a coffee break , effectively mandated by the IT department .
The Bangalore Bargain Bin is looking better by the minute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, let me get this straight.
You have some buggy apps, probably with meaningless error messages that have no correlation to any corrective action that can be taken.
The official solution is to halt work immediately, call the help desk, and ... wait?   As an added bonus, you disable Task Manager, so they can't just kill the process and re-launch.
So they get tired of waiting for the helpdesk and reboot instead.
Best of all, they get a coffee break, effectively mandated by the IT department.
The Bangalore Bargain Bin is looking better by the minute.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315296</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318930</id>
	<title>Give up on that.</title>
	<author>v1</author>
	<datestamp>1267469340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously.  There's no point to expecting or attempting to educate, bribe, trick, or otherwise coerce users into remembering much less reading error messages.  Save everything to a log file.  Make it a running log file, not a "last error" log file, so when you do remote in after they've determined it's finally time to call you, you can see all the problems they've had recently and can fix their current issue, as well as all the other little problems they've been having and have failed to mention to you.</p><p>If your circumstances support it, have the errors automatically emailed to you, with as much relevant information as possible.</p><p>I like the "puppy error" idea though...  sometimes you get a user that's not technical but is actually willing to be a part of the solution instead of wallowing in the problem, and you may be able to teach them a few tricks (haha) based on memorable icons.  Like "when you see a red stop sign, you need to press the switch on the power strip and then press it again", or "the atomic cloud means you need to call me right away" or "when you see the briefcase you need to call your manager to come take a look" etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
There 's no point to expecting or attempting to educate , bribe , trick , or otherwise coerce users into remembering much less reading error messages .
Save everything to a log file .
Make it a running log file , not a " last error " log file , so when you do remote in after they 've determined it 's finally time to call you , you can see all the problems they 've had recently and can fix their current issue , as well as all the other little problems they 've been having and have failed to mention to you.If your circumstances support it , have the errors automatically emailed to you , with as much relevant information as possible.I like the " puppy error " idea though... sometimes you get a user that 's not technical but is actually willing to be a part of the solution instead of wallowing in the problem , and you may be able to teach them a few tricks ( haha ) based on memorable icons .
Like " when you see a red stop sign , you need to press the switch on the power strip and then press it again " , or " the atomic cloud means you need to call me right away " or " when you see the briefcase you need to call your manager to come take a look " etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
There's no point to expecting or attempting to educate, bribe, trick, or otherwise coerce users into remembering much less reading error messages.
Save everything to a log file.
Make it a running log file, not a "last error" log file, so when you do remote in after they've determined it's finally time to call you, you can see all the problems they've had recently and can fix their current issue, as well as all the other little problems they've been having and have failed to mention to you.If your circumstances support it, have the errors automatically emailed to you, with as much relevant information as possible.I like the "puppy error" idea though...  sometimes you get a user that's not technical but is actually willing to be a part of the solution instead of wallowing in the problem, and you may be able to teach them a few tricks (haha) based on memorable icons.
Like "when you see a red stop sign, you need to press the switch on the power strip and then press it again", or "the atomic cloud means you need to call me right away" or "when you see the briefcase you need to call your manager to come take a look" etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316418</id>
	<title>my mums learned</title>
	<author>ddfire</author>
	<datestamp>1267459980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i teached my mum how to read the f*** messages...
i just stand in front of the monitor and asked her to read the message, then i asked her to explain me the error, the first 10 times she read the message it was like "perss esc key to solve all problems in your life" and she answered i dosent understand, i make she reads the message like ten times until she reads it like a human and not like a robot.
now or she read and proccess the messages or she is to affraid to ask me...
any way, thats worked</htmltext>
<tokenext>i teached my mum how to read the f * * * messages.. . i just stand in front of the monitor and asked her to read the message , then i asked her to explain me the error , the first 10 times she read the message it was like " perss esc key to solve all problems in your life " and she answered i dosent understand , i make she reads the message like ten times until she reads it like a human and not like a robot .
now or she read and proccess the messages or she is to affraid to ask me.. . any way , thats worked</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i teached my mum how to read the f*** messages...
i just stand in front of the monitor and asked her to read the message, then i asked her to explain me the error, the first 10 times she read the message it was like "perss esc key to solve all problems in your life" and she answered i dosent understand, i make she reads the message like ten times until she reads it like a human and not like a robot.
now or she read and proccess the messages or she is to affraid to ask me...
any way, thats worked</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</id>
	<title>Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.</p></div><p>Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.  Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens , they 're completely lost.Sounds like their jobs are easily automated .
Tell them if they do n't pay closer attention to error messages you 'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> they memorize a series of buttons to press to get whatever result they want and if anything unexpected happens, they're completely lost.Sounds like their jobs are easily automated.
Tell them if they don't pay closer attention to error messages you'll inform their boss how to replace them with another computer program.
;)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315758</id>
	<title>The summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Didn't read it, but it had a stapler</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't read it , but it had a stapler</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't read it, but it had a stapler</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322288</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267438980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You want to bet the ball kicking idea won't work with female users? I'm not female, but I happen to know box-kicking hurts just as much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You want to bet the ball kicking idea wo n't work with female users ?
I 'm not female , but I happen to know box-kicking hurts just as much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want to bet the ball kicking idea won't work with female users?
I'm not female, but I happen to know box-kicking hurts just as much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322064</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267438140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.</p></div><p>okay, please tell me why did you not check the actual data the client was sending to your servers?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.okay , please tell me why did you not check the actual data the client was sending to your servers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.okay, please tell me why did you not check the actual data the client was sending to your servers?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316706</id>
	<title>you just need better messsages</title>
	<author>PJ6</author>
	<datestamp>1267461240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't insult users with pictures of puppies. They may have fear problems using computers (yes, I find this is still the case) but generally speaking, no matter how dumb they may seem using software, people usually know their jobs extremely well; consider it your duty to defer to end-users as experts of their own domains, whether or not they can express themselves in the language you expect. Work with their strengths, not their weaknesses. Tag all task-specific methods (DAO and up) with attributes containing descriptions that will be meaningful to those likely to invoke them. This will allow you to supply plain-English stack traces when something goes wrong, ones that are both recognizable and memorable to those who will read them. In addition, all (unexpected) exceptions should be automatically logged. You should know about and be working on the problem before the user calls, and generally speaking they should never have to call.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't insult users with pictures of puppies .
They may have fear problems using computers ( yes , I find this is still the case ) but generally speaking , no matter how dumb they may seem using software , people usually know their jobs extremely well ; consider it your duty to defer to end-users as experts of their own domains , whether or not they can express themselves in the language you expect .
Work with their strengths , not their weaknesses .
Tag all task-specific methods ( DAO and up ) with attributes containing descriptions that will be meaningful to those likely to invoke them .
This will allow you to supply plain-English stack traces when something goes wrong , ones that are both recognizable and memorable to those who will read them .
In addition , all ( unexpected ) exceptions should be automatically logged .
You should know about and be working on the problem before the user calls , and generally speaking they should never have to call .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't insult users with pictures of puppies.
They may have fear problems using computers (yes, I find this is still the case) but generally speaking, no matter how dumb they may seem using software, people usually know their jobs extremely well; consider it your duty to defer to end-users as experts of their own domains, whether or not they can express themselves in the language you expect.
Work with their strengths, not their weaknesses.
Tag all task-specific methods (DAO and up) with attributes containing descriptions that will be meaningful to those likely to invoke them.
This will allow you to supply plain-English stack traces when something goes wrong, ones that are both recognizable and memorable to those who will read them.
In addition, all (unexpected) exceptions should be automatically logged.
You should know about and be working on the problem before the user calls, and generally speaking they should never have to call.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31350484</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>Siker</author>
	<datestamp>1267611300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my experience that's far too long. Here's the message as seen by the user:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>...permissions and integrity of your filesystem.</p><p>[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]</p></div><p>The customer would then assume the software has destroyed their filesystem. They'd call and leave a screaming voicemail starting something like 'Someone needs to call me RIGHT NOW.'</p><p>Messages need to be ten words or less to have a fighting chance. And I'm talking about simple words. Even then, people will still call in. We recently had a customer call in wondering what to do about this error in our shipping software: "you have to specify a weight greater than 0 pounds."</p><p>Here's how to make error messages work: make them simple and actionable for the sake of the literate. For the rest, charge per incident for support and hire a lot of cheap labour.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience that 's far too long .
Here 's the message as seen by the user : ...permissions and integrity of your filesystem .
[ More information ] [ Retry ] [ Ignore Error ] The customer would then assume the software has destroyed their filesystem .
They 'd call and leave a screaming voicemail starting something like 'Someone needs to call me RIGHT NOW .
'Messages need to be ten words or less to have a fighting chance .
And I 'm talking about simple words .
Even then , people will still call in .
We recently had a customer call in wondering what to do about this error in our shipping software : " you have to specify a weight greater than 0 pounds .
" Here 's how to make error messages work : make them simple and actionable for the sake of the literate .
For the rest , charge per incident for support and hire a lot of cheap labour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience that's far too long.
Here's the message as seen by the user:...permissions and integrity of your filesystem.
[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]The customer would then assume the software has destroyed their filesystem.
They'd call and leave a screaming voicemail starting something like 'Someone needs to call me RIGHT NOW.
'Messages need to be ten words or less to have a fighting chance.
And I'm talking about simple words.
Even then, people will still call in.
We recently had a customer call in wondering what to do about this error in our shipping software: "you have to specify a weight greater than 0 pounds.
"Here's how to make error messages work: make them simple and actionable for the sake of the literate.
For the rest, charge per incident for support and hire a lot of cheap labour.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316430</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I once had a logging tool set up to produce a unique code for each individual error message, the code would be logged along with the error text.</p><p>My thinking was.. they give me the code and I can look up the error. Of course, no one bothered to do that.</p><p>So, I tried the automated "send error" function.</p><p>They didn't use it.. they'd rather phone you to let you know there was an error.</p><p>I like the puppy idea, if it's a web app, you could probably add a img src="puppy.png?CODE=LC103413" so that the error code shows up in the web server log.  (which you could use to trace it to the applications logging)</p><p>You'll probably need their IP, just change the icon every hour, puppy.png means error happened at 09:00:00<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... cricket 10:00:00<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. and so on, then all you'll need from them is the picture and the day it happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I once had a logging tool set up to produce a unique code for each individual error message , the code would be logged along with the error text.My thinking was.. they give me the code and I can look up the error .
Of course , no one bothered to do that.So , I tried the automated " send error " function.They did n't use it.. they 'd rather phone you to let you know there was an error.I like the puppy idea , if it 's a web app , you could probably add a img src = " puppy.png ? CODE = LC103413 " so that the error code shows up in the web server log .
( which you could use to trace it to the applications logging ) You 'll probably need their IP , just change the icon every hour , puppy.png means error happened at 09 : 00 : 00 ... cricket 10 : 00 : 00 .. and so on , then all you 'll need from them is the picture and the day it happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I once had a logging tool set up to produce a unique code for each individual error message, the code would be logged along with the error text.My thinking was.. they give me the code and I can look up the error.
Of course, no one bothered to do that.So, I tried the automated "send error" function.They didn't use it.. they'd rather phone you to let you know there was an error.I like the puppy idea, if it's a web app, you could probably add a img src="puppy.png?CODE=LC103413" so that the error code shows up in the web server log.
(which you could use to trace it to the applications logging)You'll probably need their IP, just change the icon every hour, puppy.png means error happened at 09:00:00 ... cricket 10:00:00 .. and so on, then all you'll need from them is the picture and the day it happened.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315698</id>
	<title>Tech support LOL</title>
	<author>Lost Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1267457700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many times when I ask a customer for the error message log, it will have the solution listed in the error log...<br>"Application whatzit cannot find the snapinfo lun, please rerun the whatzit configuration wizard"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many times when I ask a customer for the error message log , it will have the solution listed in the error log... " Application whatzit can not find the snapinfo lun , please rerun the whatzit configuration wizard "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many times when I ask a customer for the error message log, it will have the solution listed in the error log..."Application whatzit cannot find the snapinfo lun, please rerun the whatzit configuration wizard"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31331816</id>
	<title>Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for</title>
	<author>starcraftsicko</author>
	<datestamp>1267553940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a very reasonable response.  Parent should be modded insightful, not funny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a very reasonable response .
Parent should be modded insightful , not funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a very reasonable response.
Parent should be modded insightful, not funny.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316098</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>neurovish</author>
	<datestamp>1267458960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not an error.  Errors prevent you from continuing.  The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem.  That is solved by the user clicking "OK".</p><p>The entire way errors are handled is wrong.  I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.</p></div><p>WTH was this marked as troll?  It is true.  How many times have you compiled something and gotten a page of warning messages, scanned through thinking "warning, warning, warning, warning, blah, blah...no errors?  Sweet, it worked!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not an error .
Errors prevent you from continuing .
The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there 's a problem .
That is solved by the user clicking " OK " .The entire way errors are handled is wrong .
I do n't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it 's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.WTH was this marked as troll ?
It is true .
How many times have you compiled something and gotten a page of warning messages , scanned through thinking " warning , warning , warning , warning , blah , blah...no errors ?
Sweet , it worked !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not an error.
Errors prevent you from continuing.
The only thing approaching an error is the little box telling you there's a problem.
That is solved by the user clicking "OK".The entire way errors are handled is wrong.
I don't know what the solution is but I very much doubt it's a simple modification to the current fundamentally flawed system.WTH was this marked as troll?
It is true.
How many times have you compiled something and gotten a page of warning messages, scanned through thinking "warning, warning, warning, warning, blah, blah...no errors?
Sweet, it worked!
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315608</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></div><p>I get your point, but that's naive.</p><p>Users pointing your software to the wrong types of files, external harddrives being disconnected while in use, network connection being lost or simply "hard" hardware failure such as failing hard drive sectors or memory corrupted bits in memory are but a few examples that simply cannot be handled gracefully without making the user aware of the problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable .
If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed.I get your point , but that 's naive.Users pointing your software to the wrong types of files , external harddrives being disconnected while in use , network connection being lost or simply " hard " hardware failure such as failing hard drive sectors or memory corrupted bits in memory are but a few examples that simply can not be handled gracefully without making the user aware of the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.
If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.I get your point, but that's naive.Users pointing your software to the wrong types of files, external harddrives being disconnected while in use, network connection being lost or simply "hard" hardware failure such as failing hard drive sectors or memory corrupted bits in memory are but a few examples that simply cannot be handled gracefully without making the user aware of the problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316080</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, but this one is your company's fault.  Before anyone boarded a plane, you had access to server logs and could have run a protocol analyzer on some sessions where users recreated the problem.  I worked on international systems, where that "cross country flight" of yours would have been 21 hours to Hong Kong.  There was never an emergency support flight because we solved our problems remotely.  Thanks to a 13 hour time shift, we were HIGHLY motivated to make things foolproof.</p><p>Looking back at everything that happened in your story, it should now be obvious that the solution could have been found without showing up onsite.  Assuming your startup is still afloat, I'm sure that next time the problem will be solved much quicker as long as you have the veterans of "last time" in a position to help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but this one is your company 's fault .
Before anyone boarded a plane , you had access to server logs and could have run a protocol analyzer on some sessions where users recreated the problem .
I worked on international systems , where that " cross country flight " of yours would have been 21 hours to Hong Kong .
There was never an emergency support flight because we solved our problems remotely .
Thanks to a 13 hour time shift , we were HIGHLY motivated to make things foolproof.Looking back at everything that happened in your story , it should now be obvious that the solution could have been found without showing up onsite .
Assuming your startup is still afloat , I 'm sure that next time the problem will be solved much quicker as long as you have the veterans of " last time " in a position to help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but this one is your company's fault.
Before anyone boarded a plane, you had access to server logs and could have run a protocol analyzer on some sessions where users recreated the problem.
I worked on international systems, where that "cross country flight" of yours would have been 21 hours to Hong Kong.
There was never an emergency support flight because we solved our problems remotely.
Thanks to a 13 hour time shift, we were HIGHLY motivated to make things foolproof.Looking back at everything that happened in your story, it should now be obvious that the solution could have been found without showing up onsite.
Assuming your startup is still afloat, I'm sure that next time the problem will be solved much quicker as long as you have the veterans of "last time" in a position to help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316768</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1267461420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take<br>&gt; responsibility for crashes?</p><p>I assume he means that they should take responsibility for reporting crashes.</p><p>&gt; You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes<br>&gt; without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for<br>&gt; you.</p><p>And syslog's remote logging facility makes this easy.</p><p>Oh.  Wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Excuse me , but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take &gt; responsibility for crashes ? I assume he means that they should take responsibility for reporting crashes. &gt; You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes &gt; without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for &gt; you.And syslog 's remote logging facility makes this easy.Oh .
Wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take&gt; responsibility for crashes?I assume he means that they should take responsibility for reporting crashes.&gt; You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes&gt; without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for&gt; you.And syslog's remote logging facility makes this easy.Oh.
Wait...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316962</id>
	<title>Re:FTFY</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1267462200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Write it for OS/2.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Write it for OS/2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Write it for OS/2.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316016</id>
	<title>Easy  Relying on Users</title>
	<author>Xiozhiq</author>
	<datestamp>1267458720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Users, in the vast majority of occurrences, want to just get their job done. They don't care how the software works, and as long as it works, that's perfectly fine. When it inconveniences them, they just want the inconveniences to go away, not learn C++ from the ground up so they can pinpoint the error for you.</p><p>To that end, I have two suggestions based on the situation in which you find yourself.</p><p>First:</p><p>If you're supporting a program that you wrote / helped write, make the error message box more than 5 paragraphs of memory addresses and an OK button. Make the popup something that a user actually cares about, like "Oops, the program made a mistake. Please help us fix it by clicking submit below." Have a submit button that will automatically gather all (of the automatically gatherable) information for you, put it in a report, then allow users to add their own comments to let you know what they were trying to do. Always give them a way to skip a certain step, mentioning just how helpful their submission could be to finding the error and eliminating it forever, giving them more facebook time at work. If your process is slightly informative and makes the end-user feel valuable, they'll be more likely to help you. On a side-note, always send thank-you e-mails to users who report issues, even if it's an automated e-mail. Thank them for their invaluable help, because it's only due to users like them that the program can be improved. Stroke some ego.</p><p>Second:</p><p>If you're doing 'desktop support' in a general manner, where you need to fix errors caused by other programs, make it easy for users to report those as well. Put a pleasant-looking note (so they don't just trash it) on their monitors with clear instructions on how to take a screenshot and get it to you. Emphasize that helping you find the problem means it won't happen again when you find out why it happened. Users are lazy creatures, and the easier you make it on them, the more likely it is that they won't mind helping you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users , in the vast majority of occurrences , want to just get their job done .
They do n't care how the software works , and as long as it works , that 's perfectly fine .
When it inconveniences them , they just want the inconveniences to go away , not learn C + + from the ground up so they can pinpoint the error for you.To that end , I have two suggestions based on the situation in which you find yourself.First : If you 're supporting a program that you wrote / helped write , make the error message box more than 5 paragraphs of memory addresses and an OK button .
Make the popup something that a user actually cares about , like " Oops , the program made a mistake .
Please help us fix it by clicking submit below .
" Have a submit button that will automatically gather all ( of the automatically gatherable ) information for you , put it in a report , then allow users to add their own comments to let you know what they were trying to do .
Always give them a way to skip a certain step , mentioning just how helpful their submission could be to finding the error and eliminating it forever , giving them more facebook time at work .
If your process is slightly informative and makes the end-user feel valuable , they 'll be more likely to help you .
On a side-note , always send thank-you e-mails to users who report issues , even if it 's an automated e-mail .
Thank them for their invaluable help , because it 's only due to users like them that the program can be improved .
Stroke some ego.Second : If you 're doing 'desktop support ' in a general manner , where you need to fix errors caused by other programs , make it easy for users to report those as well .
Put a pleasant-looking note ( so they do n't just trash it ) on their monitors with clear instructions on how to take a screenshot and get it to you .
Emphasize that helping you find the problem means it wo n't happen again when you find out why it happened .
Users are lazy creatures , and the easier you make it on them , the more likely it is that they wo n't mind helping you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users, in the vast majority of occurrences, want to just get their job done.
They don't care how the software works, and as long as it works, that's perfectly fine.
When it inconveniences them, they just want the inconveniences to go away, not learn C++ from the ground up so they can pinpoint the error for you.To that end, I have two suggestions based on the situation in which you find yourself.First:If you're supporting a program that you wrote / helped write, make the error message box more than 5 paragraphs of memory addresses and an OK button.
Make the popup something that a user actually cares about, like "Oops, the program made a mistake.
Please help us fix it by clicking submit below.
" Have a submit button that will automatically gather all (of the automatically gatherable) information for you, put it in a report, then allow users to add their own comments to let you know what they were trying to do.
Always give them a way to skip a certain step, mentioning just how helpful their submission could be to finding the error and eliminating it forever, giving them more facebook time at work.
If your process is slightly informative and makes the end-user feel valuable, they'll be more likely to help you.
On a side-note, always send thank-you e-mails to users who report issues, even if it's an automated e-mail.
Thank them for their invaluable help, because it's only due to users like them that the program can be improved.
Stroke some ego.Second:If you're doing 'desktop support' in a general manner, where you need to fix errors caused by other programs, make it easy for users to report those as well.
Put a pleasant-looking note (so they don't just trash it) on their monitors with clear instructions on how to take a screenshot and get it to you.
Emphasize that helping you find the problem means it won't happen again when you find out why it happened.
Users are lazy creatures, and the easier you make it on them, the more likely it is that they won't mind helping you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316114</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The text of most standard Windows message dialogs can actually be copied to the clipboard by pressing Ctrl-C.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The text of most standard Windows message dialogs can actually be copied to the clipboard by pressing Ctrl-C .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The text of most standard Windows message dialogs can actually be copied to the clipboard by pressing Ctrl-C.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317656</id>
	<title>Bad idea :(</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1267464720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds.</p></div><p>It doesn't take 10 seconds to recognize "yeah, this is the same dialog as before"</p><p><div class="quote"><p>but ultimately you can't fix stupid.</p></div><p>It's not <em>all</em> stupid (only 99\%).  Sometimes it's "not well enough informed".  Say, in the firefox example.  Should I trust "Joe Random Add-On Developer"?  Yeah, sure*.  Forcing me to spend 10 seconds on a 3-second decision just annoys me.</p><p>* No, I shouldn't.  But I'm gonna'.  And all you people who run ad block plus and what have you, you haven't met with the developers and verified that they have the best intentions about your computer.  They <em>could</em> be evil, you know...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put a timer on the buttons that wo n't let them click it for 10 seconds.It does n't take 10 seconds to recognize " yeah , this is the same dialog as before " but ultimately you ca n't fix stupid.It 's not all stupid ( only 99 \ % ) .
Sometimes it 's " not well enough informed " .
Say , in the firefox example .
Should I trust " Joe Random Add-On Developer " ?
Yeah , sure * .
Forcing me to spend 10 seconds on a 3-second decision just annoys me .
* No , I should n't .
But I 'm gon na' .
And all you people who run ad block plus and what have you , you have n't met with the developers and verified that they have the best intentions about your computer .
They could be evil , you know.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds.It doesn't take 10 seconds to recognize "yeah, this is the same dialog as before"but ultimately you can't fix stupid.It's not all stupid (only 99\%).
Sometimes it's "not well enough informed".
Say, in the firefox example.
Should I trust "Joe Random Add-On Developer"?
Yeah, sure*.
Forcing me to spend 10 seconds on a 3-second decision just annoys me.
* No, I shouldn't.
But I'm gonna'.
And all you people who run ad block plus and what have you, you haven't met with the developers and verified that they have the best intentions about your computer.
They could be evil, you know...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317308</id>
	<title>Sending the log?</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1267463400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.</p></div><p>Except figure out how to upload the log file to the support system.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated , then you do n't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.Except figure out how to upload the log file to the support system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better solution would be to simply write a log of the error message when the box is generated, then you don't need to rely on the user to do much of anything.Except figure out how to upload the log file to the support system.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317192</id>
	<title>Re:A good plot</title>
	<author>Bossk-Office</author>
	<datestamp>1267462920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"The ones that just want someone else to do their work"</i><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I would suggest that IT support is not really the users' work, after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The ones that just want someone else to do their work " ... I would suggest that IT support is not really the users ' work , after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The ones that just want someone else to do their work" ... I would suggest that IT support is not really the users' work, after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320274</id>
	<title>Re:Don't tell what went wrong</title>
	<author>FireFury03</author>
	<datestamp>1267474740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"uninitialized data" is meaningless. It's something only a programmer would understand.</p><p>Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.</p></div><p>In the case of "uninitialised data", what *he* did wrong was probably buy some software written by a chimp.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" uninitialized data " is meaningless .
It 's something only a programmer would understand.Instead tell the user what * he * did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.In the case of " uninitialised data " , what * he * did wrong was probably buy some software written by a chimp .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"uninitialized data" is meaningless.
It's something only a programmer would understand.Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.In the case of "uninitialised data", what *he* did wrong was probably buy some software written by a chimp.
:)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315476</id>
	<title>Not the users fault.</title>
	<author>sunking2</author>
	<datestamp>1267456860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stop pushing the inadequacies of the program on the users. If you come across the error, then log it. Why are you relying on a person to sit there and read back to you something that could just as easily be written to a file that they could send to you or read directly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop pushing the inadequacies of the program on the users .
If you come across the error , then log it .
Why are you relying on a person to sit there and read back to you something that could just as easily be written to a file that they could send to you or read directly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop pushing the inadequacies of the program on the users.
If you come across the error, then log it.
Why are you relying on a person to sit there and read back to you something that could just as easily be written to a file that they could send to you or read directly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</id>
	<title>Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds... but ultimately you can't fix stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put a timer on the buttons that wo n't let them click it for 10 seconds... but ultimately you ca n't fix stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds... but ultimately you can't fix stupid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317278</id>
	<title>Lock down the system</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1267463280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do whatever is possible to make it IMpossible for users to install ANYTHING. Install pop-up blockers. That would be a start. And good luck with taking anything away from the end users, Glynn.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do whatever is possible to make it IMpossible for users to install ANYTHING .
Install pop-up blockers .
That would be a start .
And good luck with taking anything away from the end users , Glynn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do whatever is possible to make it IMpossible for users to install ANYTHING.
Install pop-up blockers.
That would be a start.
And good luck with taking anything away from the end users, Glynn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316318</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>steveb3210</author>
	<datestamp>1267459620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p></div><p>If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.If i 'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316344</id>
	<title>Very simple</title>
	<author>Ancient\_Hacker</author>
	<datestamp>1267459680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very simple.    Get a coding wiz to write a background app that hooks into the OS and whenever it sees a error dialog box pop up, it either captures the text or does a screen dump to a file.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very simple .
Get a coding wiz to write a background app that hooks into the OS and whenever it sees a error dialog box pop up , it either captures the text or does a screen dump to a file .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very simple.
Get a coding wiz to write a background app that hooks into the OS and whenever it sees a error dialog box pop up, it either captures the text or does a screen dump to a file.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320214</id>
	<title>Re:Don't tell what went wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267474560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.</p></div><p>
Or even better, in this case, prevent the error from ever happening in the first place. Have the "OK" button be greyed out until the recipient address is given. Color the text-field a non-intrusive hue of red. Display an alert sign next to it until the user has entered the address.</p><p>If the user clicks OK anyway, have a red, pulsing (graphically slick, of course) attention-drawing sign appear next to the field where the adress was supposed to be entered. Have it scroll into view. Hell, turn the whole screen red, then have a zoom effect which shrinks the red screen down to just the sign.
</p><p>
Modern computers have a ton of processing power and advanced graphics cards. Yet the best thing most programmers can think of is to pop up a dialog saying "Error - you did not X the Y" with an "OK" button.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead tell the user what * he * did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation .
Or even better , in this case , prevent the error from ever happening in the first place .
Have the " OK " button be greyed out until the recipient address is given .
Color the text-field a non-intrusive hue of red .
Display an alert sign next to it until the user has entered the address.If the user clicks OK anyway , have a red , pulsing ( graphically slick , of course ) attention-drawing sign appear next to the field where the adress was supposed to be entered .
Have it scroll into view .
Hell , turn the whole screen red , then have a zoom effect which shrinks the red screen down to just the sign .
Modern computers have a ton of processing power and advanced graphics cards .
Yet the best thing most programmers can think of is to pop up a dialog saying " Error - you did not X the Y " with an " OK " button .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead tell the user what *he* did wrong and tell him how to correct the situation.
Or even better, in this case, prevent the error from ever happening in the first place.
Have the "OK" button be greyed out until the recipient address is given.
Color the text-field a non-intrusive hue of red.
Display an alert sign next to it until the user has entered the address.If the user clicks OK anyway, have a red, pulsing (graphically slick, of course) attention-drawing sign appear next to the field where the adress was supposed to be entered.
Have it scroll into view.
Hell, turn the whole screen red, then have a zoom effect which shrinks the red screen down to just the sign.
Modern computers have a ton of processing power and advanced graphics cards.
Yet the best thing most programmers can think of is to pop up a dialog saying "Error - you did not X the Y" with an "OK" button.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323682</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267444500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should only be one button on severe error dialogs - "Take Test".  When clicked, the dialog box expands to include a multiple-choice question:</p><p>The above error message says:<br>( ) Your computer is on fire<br>( ) The network is down<br>( ) Your keyboard is unplugged<br>( ) The license server is down<br>( ) Windows has crashed</p><p>Then refuse to do anything until they get it right.  They'll <i>have</i> to read the message, and they'll have to understand it.</p><p>Right?</p><p>Okay, you're right, this won't work either.  Nothing to see here, move along...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should only be one button on severe error dialogs - " Take Test " .
When clicked , the dialog box expands to include a multiple-choice question : The above error message says : ( ) Your computer is on fire ( ) The network is down ( ) Your keyboard is unplugged ( ) The license server is down ( ) Windows has crashedThen refuse to do anything until they get it right .
They 'll have to read the message , and they 'll have to understand it.Right ? Okay , you 're right , this wo n't work either .
Nothing to see here , move along.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should only be one button on severe error dialogs - "Take Test".
When clicked, the dialog box expands to include a multiple-choice question:The above error message says:( ) Your computer is on fire( ) The network is down( ) Your keyboard is unplugged( ) The license server is down( ) Windows has crashedThen refuse to do anything until they get it right.
They'll have to read the message, and they'll have to understand it.Right?Okay, you're right, this won't work either.
Nothing to see here, move along...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315786</id>
	<title>Get rid of 1st line support.</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1267458060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get rid of first-line support and make it very, very difficult for them to get in contact with the troubleshooters and sysadmins.</p><p>No, I'm serious. That's the only way to get them to read the error messages: send them afloat by themselves, without the liferaft. They'll have to hold themselves afloat by their own sheer heft and willpower.</p><p>Even if they do manage to track down the higher level techs, the "don't talk to me, I'm busy" rule applies.</p><p>This way nobody actually gets 'blamed' for user stupidity but the user who breaks the computer, there are fewer user errors due to them actually paying attention and learning, and the sysadmins actually get work done.</p><p>More will get done and the users will have fewer actual errors. Support costs will be saved, and users won't begrudge those IT guys who do "nothing" all day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get rid of first-line support and make it very , very difficult for them to get in contact with the troubleshooters and sysadmins.No , I 'm serious .
That 's the only way to get them to read the error messages : send them afloat by themselves , without the liferaft .
They 'll have to hold themselves afloat by their own sheer heft and willpower.Even if they do manage to track down the higher level techs , the " do n't talk to me , I 'm busy " rule applies.This way nobody actually gets 'blamed ' for user stupidity but the user who breaks the computer , there are fewer user errors due to them actually paying attention and learning , and the sysadmins actually get work done.More will get done and the users will have fewer actual errors .
Support costs will be saved , and users wo n't begrudge those IT guys who do " nothing " all day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get rid of first-line support and make it very, very difficult for them to get in contact with the troubleshooters and sysadmins.No, I'm serious.
That's the only way to get them to read the error messages: send them afloat by themselves, without the liferaft.
They'll have to hold themselves afloat by their own sheer heft and willpower.Even if they do manage to track down the higher level techs, the "don't talk to me, I'm busy" rule applies.This way nobody actually gets 'blamed' for user stupidity but the user who breaks the computer, there are fewer user errors due to them actually paying attention and learning, and the sysadmins actually get work done.More will get done and the users will have fewer actual errors.
Support costs will be saved, and users won't begrudge those IT guys who do "nothing" all day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316784</id>
	<title>Stop fighting a losing battle...</title>
	<author>jbreiding</author>
	<datestamp>1267461540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stop trying to change the user, its much easier to change application. The application should be collecting evidence anytime an error is encountered. To make it easier on the user there should be some sort of builtin mechanism to collect this evidence. Software is built to make things easier and less complex for the user. The collection of this evidence could be triggered when any error occurs and then transmitted to the source developers when an error occurs. Think about microsoft error reporting. Be proactive and when an error occurs have a help desk incident created and contact the end user to solve the problem if it occurs multiple times. Help stop the user from hitting their thumbs with the error if they don't learn from the pain the first time. Its possible the end user could just get frustrated enough and blame the hammer. With the end result being the end user throwing away the hammer and going out to buy a new one. When they hit their thumb again they aren't going to think that they are doing something wrong, users never do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop trying to change the user , its much easier to change application .
The application should be collecting evidence anytime an error is encountered .
To make it easier on the user there should be some sort of builtin mechanism to collect this evidence .
Software is built to make things easier and less complex for the user .
The collection of this evidence could be triggered when any error occurs and then transmitted to the source developers when an error occurs .
Think about microsoft error reporting .
Be proactive and when an error occurs have a help desk incident created and contact the end user to solve the problem if it occurs multiple times .
Help stop the user from hitting their thumbs with the error if they do n't learn from the pain the first time .
Its possible the end user could just get frustrated enough and blame the hammer .
With the end result being the end user throwing away the hammer and going out to buy a new one .
When they hit their thumb again they are n't going to think that they are doing something wrong , users never do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop trying to change the user, its much easier to change application.
The application should be collecting evidence anytime an error is encountered.
To make it easier on the user there should be some sort of builtin mechanism to collect this evidence.
Software is built to make things easier and less complex for the user.
The collection of this evidence could be triggered when any error occurs and then transmitted to the source developers when an error occurs.
Think about microsoft error reporting.
Be proactive and when an error occurs have a help desk incident created and contact the end user to solve the problem if it occurs multiple times.
Help stop the user from hitting their thumbs with the error if they don't learn from the pain the first time.
Its possible the end user could just get frustrated enough and blame the hammer.
With the end result being the end user throwing away the hammer and going out to buy a new one.
When they hit their thumb again they aren't going to think that they are doing something wrong, users never do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320622</id>
	<title>They can't memorize what isn't consistent.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267476120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Implement a random number generator and design several styles of error messages with the buttons moved around. 10 buttons that say "this button doesn't do anything" "this button rapes your computer" and "this button is made of clowns" which are distributed in a random order should help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Implement a random number generator and design several styles of error messages with the buttons moved around .
10 buttons that say " this button does n't do anything " " this button rapes your computer " and " this button is made of clowns " which are distributed in a random order should help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Implement a random number generator and design several styles of error messages with the buttons moved around.
10 buttons that say "this button doesn't do anything" "this button rapes your computer" and "this button is made of clowns" which are distributed in a random order should help.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316654</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>LordAndrewSama</author>
	<datestamp>1267461000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>maybe make it a fun game, where the error message will only go away if clicked more than 10 seconds after it appeared, otherwise it just instantly pops up again somewhere else on the screen so they have to move the mouse, just like whack-a-mole.  Wonder how long it will take before people figure it out...</htmltext>
<tokenext>maybe make it a fun game , where the error message will only go away if clicked more than 10 seconds after it appeared , otherwise it just instantly pops up again somewhere else on the screen so they have to move the mouse , just like whack-a-mole .
Wonder how long it will take before people figure it out.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maybe make it a fun game, where the error message will only go away if clicked more than 10 seconds after it appeared, otherwise it just instantly pops up again somewhere else on the screen so they have to move the mouse, just like whack-a-mole.
Wonder how long it will take before people figure it out...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318258</id>
	<title>chicken and egg problem</title>
	<author>NotSoHeavyD3</author>
	<datestamp>1267466820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the reasons I'm thinking that people don't look at error messages is that alot of the time they're terrible. You know error 47719 and that's the end of it. (Or worse, the "Error Error" which is what I call it when a program or whatever tells you an error has occured and then nothing else.) So I'd expect alot of people don't look since it's often a waste of time. Then coders turn around and realize nobody gives a shit so they make the error reporting even less useful. (Sometime you run across an app that does a good job of reporting error, that's awesome when it occurs.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the reasons I 'm thinking that people do n't look at error messages is that alot of the time they 're terrible .
You know error 47719 and that 's the end of it .
( Or worse , the " Error Error " which is what I call it when a program or whatever tells you an error has occured and then nothing else .
) So I 'd expect alot of people do n't look since it 's often a waste of time .
Then coders turn around and realize nobody gives a shit so they make the error reporting even less useful .
( Sometime you run across an app that does a good job of reporting error , that 's awesome when it occurs .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the reasons I'm thinking that people don't look at error messages is that alot of the time they're terrible.
You know error 47719 and that's the end of it.
(Or worse, the "Error Error" which is what I call it when a program or whatever tells you an error has occured and then nothing else.
) So I'd expect alot of people don't look since it's often a waste of time.
Then coders turn around and realize nobody gives a shit so they make the error reporting even less useful.
(Sometime you run across an app that does a good job of reporting error, that's awesome when it occurs.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317324</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1267463460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've met professional people (two doctors and one lawyer) who believe that new software is often written by existing software programs. I guess they watch too much sci-fi. So yeah, your approach could work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've met professional people ( two doctors and one lawyer ) who believe that new software is often written by existing software programs .
I guess they watch too much sci-fi .
So yeah , your approach could work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've met professional people (two doctors and one lawyer) who believe that new software is often written by existing software programs.
I guess they watch too much sci-fi.
So yeah, your approach could work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316416</id>
	<title>Re:Their lips get tired</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This brings up a really good point. Rather than write code to tell the user about the caps lock - which just pops up more shit for people to learn to dismiss, they should treat the caps-lock as unlocked for them. Not sure if it's possible, but they could unlock it for the password, and relock it after - this takes care of all the strange keyboard variants where you may not know how to treat a keypress and "unlocked". Either way, it makes the problem just go away entirely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This brings up a really good point .
Rather than write code to tell the user about the caps lock - which just pops up more shit for people to learn to dismiss , they should treat the caps-lock as unlocked for them .
Not sure if it 's possible , but they could unlock it for the password , and relock it after - this takes care of all the strange keyboard variants where you may not know how to treat a keypress and " unlocked " .
Either way , it makes the problem just go away entirely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This brings up a really good point.
Rather than write code to tell the user about the caps lock - which just pops up more shit for people to learn to dismiss, they should treat the caps-lock as unlocked for them.
Not sure if it's possible, but they could unlock it for the password, and relock it after - this takes care of all the strange keyboard variants where you may not know how to treat a keypress and "unlocked".
Either way, it makes the problem just go away entirely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317564</id>
	<title>Boobies</title>
	<author>dbkluck</author>
	<datestamp>1267464360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How do you get users to read error messages?  Simple.  Put pictures of naked ladies on them.  How do you think Michelangelo got the common folk to be interested in looking at "art"?

Added bonus:  Easy to describe the errors.  Like your "puppy error," but more fun.  "Hello, tech support?  Yeah, I've got the blond chick in the shower... Oh, okay, just check to make sure the network cable's plugged in, got it."</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you get users to read error messages ?
Simple. Put pictures of naked ladies on them .
How do you think Michelangelo got the common folk to be interested in looking at " art " ?
Added bonus : Easy to describe the errors .
Like your " puppy error , " but more fun .
" Hello , tech support ?
Yeah , I 've got the blond chick in the shower... Oh , okay , just check to make sure the network cable 's plugged in , got it .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you get users to read error messages?
Simple.  Put pictures of naked ladies on them.
How do you think Michelangelo got the common folk to be interested in looking at "art"?
Added bonus:  Easy to describe the errors.
Like your "puppy error," but more fun.
"Hello, tech support?
Yeah, I've got the blond chick in the shower... Oh, okay, just check to make sure the network cable's plugged in, got it.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315262</id>
	<title>Better picture idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Guarantee they'll learn quickly to avoid the goatsea error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Guarantee they 'll learn quickly to avoid the goatsea error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guarantee they'll learn quickly to avoid the goatsea error.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316230</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are correct to ignore the error most of the time. Errors like that are worthless when ignoring them "seems to work". Obviously many folks will try their best to make things work an all browsers, but if you're going to take that route, don't throw errors. Either it works or it doesn't, but don't show an error and then do your best with what you've got. If you need information, it should not be possible to proceed without it and the error should be there plain as day. Pop-ups are not OK, they can be dismissed and then you're back to what exactly? Then on the phone, you ask "what does it say on the screen?".</p><p>Anything that can be dismissed will be dismissed and the user will think they took care of that problem - I made it go away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are correct to ignore the error most of the time .
Errors like that are worthless when ignoring them " seems to work " .
Obviously many folks will try their best to make things work an all browsers , but if you 're going to take that route , do n't throw errors .
Either it works or it does n't , but do n't show an error and then do your best with what you 've got .
If you need information , it should not be possible to proceed without it and the error should be there plain as day .
Pop-ups are not OK , they can be dismissed and then you 're back to what exactly ?
Then on the phone , you ask " what does it say on the screen ?
" .Anything that can be dismissed will be dismissed and the user will think they took care of that problem - I made it go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are correct to ignore the error most of the time.
Errors like that are worthless when ignoring them "seems to work".
Obviously many folks will try their best to make things work an all browsers, but if you're going to take that route, don't throw errors.
Either it works or it doesn't, but don't show an error and then do your best with what you've got.
If you need information, it should not be possible to proceed without it and the error should be there plain as day.
Pop-ups are not OK, they can be dismissed and then you're back to what exactly?
Then on the phone, you ask "what does it say on the screen?
".Anything that can be dismissed will be dismissed and the user will think they took care of that problem - I made it go away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319684</id>
	<title>well..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267472340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One way I've seen, which I thought was particularly good, gave an error message. In order to move past the error screen the person had to call the support company for a passcode to close it. This way, the support company had a full history of 'incidents', could ensure the end user didn't proceed after a meltdown, and knew what error code was being given at what time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One way I 've seen , which I thought was particularly good , gave an error message .
In order to move past the error screen the person had to call the support company for a passcode to close it .
This way , the support company had a full history of 'incidents ' , could ensure the end user did n't proceed after a meltdown , and knew what error code was being given at what time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One way I've seen, which I thought was particularly good, gave an error message.
In order to move past the error screen the person had to call the support company for a passcode to close it.
This way, the support company had a full history of 'incidents', could ensure the end user didn't proceed after a meltdown, and knew what error code was being given at what time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322692</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1267440480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... how do you do away with the error that occurs when the user deletes the data file your application requires to work?</p><p>You're naive at best, ignorant at worst, and don't really understand the source of many 'error messages'.</p><p>Most errors occur because<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... something unexpected happened, and the message is there to let every know so it can be fixed.</p><p>Please show me the bug free code you've written that needs no error messages and no, trivial 'hello world' type crap doesn't count.</p><p>What do you do in the word processor when a file can be saved do to permissions?  Nothing?   Get root and change the permissions cause clearly the user shouldn't see an error?</p><p>Go back to your CS class professor, you don't get the real world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ... how do you do away with the error that occurs when the user deletes the data file your application requires to work ? You 're naive at best , ignorant at worst , and do n't really understand the source of many 'error messages'.Most errors occur because ... something unexpected happened , and the message is there to let every know so it can be fixed.Please show me the bug free code you 've written that needs no error messages and no , trivial 'hello world ' type crap does n't count.What do you do in the word processor when a file can be saved do to permissions ?
Nothing ? Get root and change the permissions cause clearly the user should n't see an error ? Go back to your CS class professor , you do n't get the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really ... how do you do away with the error that occurs when the user deletes the data file your application requires to work?You're naive at best, ignorant at worst, and don't really understand the source of many 'error messages'.Most errors occur because ... something unexpected happened, and the message is there to let every know so it can be fixed.Please show me the bug free code you've written that needs no error messages and no, trivial 'hello world' type crap doesn't count.What do you do in the word processor when a file can be saved do to permissions?
Nothing?   Get root and change the permissions cause clearly the user shouldn't see an error?Go back to your CS class professor, you don't get the real world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315426</id>
	<title>choices</title>
	<author>TheSHAD0W</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What error does the "women's underwear" icon stand for?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What error does the " women 's underwear " icon stand for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What error does the "women's underwear" icon stand for?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315450</id>
	<title>Anything but sounds, and error logging</title>
	<author>Wrexs0ul</author>
	<datestamp>1267456680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been down that road. It's a good idea until you have a hundred people calling-in trying to hum the error to you. What's worse is you can't debug because they're tone-deaf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Seriously though, it sounds like you want a system that can record the error for your debugging purposes later-on without the user needing to remember a number of color. Why not just log the error in a system file, or better yet have it send a quick message to a central logger/email that you can check? Then you can be as technical with the data as needed and know the entirety of a problem before they call for a blue square.</p><p>Also, for self-debugging make sure you keep reported errors to simple, broad categories, ie: blue = file error, yellow = network error, etc.. The barrier for calling you with errors is when a phone call is less effort than thinking for themselves, and while there'll always be a group who aren't capable of the latter there'll be an equal number who can associate yellow with "unplugged network cable". This applies to sending people to help files as well, they won't look if it's easier to call you so it's a wasted popup.</p><p>Hope this helps,</p><p>-Matt</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been down that road .
It 's a good idea until you have a hundred people calling-in trying to hum the error to you .
What 's worse is you ca n't debug because they 're tone-deaf : ) Seriously though , it sounds like you want a system that can record the error for your debugging purposes later-on without the user needing to remember a number of color .
Why not just log the error in a system file , or better yet have it send a quick message to a central logger/email that you can check ?
Then you can be as technical with the data as needed and know the entirety of a problem before they call for a blue square.Also , for self-debugging make sure you keep reported errors to simple , broad categories , ie : blue = file error , yellow = network error , etc.. The barrier for calling you with errors is when a phone call is less effort than thinking for themselves , and while there 'll always be a group who are n't capable of the latter there 'll be an equal number who can associate yellow with " unplugged network cable " .
This applies to sending people to help files as well , they wo n't look if it 's easier to call you so it 's a wasted popup.Hope this helps,-Matt</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been down that road.
It's a good idea until you have a hundred people calling-in trying to hum the error to you.
What's worse is you can't debug because they're tone-deaf :)Seriously though, it sounds like you want a system that can record the error for your debugging purposes later-on without the user needing to remember a number of color.
Why not just log the error in a system file, or better yet have it send a quick message to a central logger/email that you can check?
Then you can be as technical with the data as needed and know the entirety of a problem before they call for a blue square.Also, for self-debugging make sure you keep reported errors to simple, broad categories, ie: blue = file error, yellow = network error, etc.. The barrier for calling you with errors is when a phone call is less effort than thinking for themselves, and while there'll always be a group who aren't capable of the latter there'll be an equal number who can associate yellow with "unplugged network cable".
This applies to sending people to help files as well, they won't look if it's easier to call you so it's a wasted popup.Hope this helps,-Matt</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323608</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1267444140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do. At first, I thought it was them being lazy. However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task.</i> </p><p>The task in progress is what has their supervisors breathing down their neck to complete.</p><p>That is why you are on one side of the help desk and they are on the other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What they want is to pick up the phone , make a call , and have someone tell them what to do .
At first , I thought it was them being lazy .
However , I now think it is closer to why programmers do n't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task .
The task in progress is what has their supervisors breathing down their neck to complete.That is why you are on one side of the help desk and they are on the other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do.
At first, I thought it was them being lazy.
However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task.
The task in progress is what has their supervisors breathing down their neck to complete.That is why you are on one side of the help desk and they are on the other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321160</id>
	<title>How Do You Get Users To Read Error Messages?</title>
	<author>Genwil</author>
	<datestamp>1267434960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most people have no clue what most error messages say to them, so they can't possibly remember what they say. Making sure error messages say something a regular person can understand will make it more likely they will read, and remember the messages. It's just like asking someone to remember names in their mother tongue or a completely different language: it's way easier for people to remember names from their own language.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people have no clue what most error messages say to them , so they ca n't possibly remember what they say .
Making sure error messages say something a regular person can understand will make it more likely they will read , and remember the messages .
It 's just like asking someone to remember names in their mother tongue or a completely different language : it 's way easier for people to remember names from their own language .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people have no clue what most error messages say to them, so they can't possibly remember what they say.
Making sure error messages say something a regular person can understand will make it more likely they will read, and remember the messages.
It's just like asking someone to remember names in their mother tongue or a completely different language: it's way easier for people to remember names from their own language.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315710</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should ask my wife...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should ask my wife.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should ask my wife...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315984</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Apatharch</author>
	<datestamp>1267458660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?</p></div></blockquote><p>Then the job should be done by an AI, and you should train for a job that can't be so economically automated.  It's not like this issue hasn't come up before with the advent of robotic assembly lines and, well, any kind of automation technology ever.</p><blockquote><div><p>Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).</p></div></blockquote><p>We're not just talking about general ignorance/stupidity here; we're talking about someone's ability to do their job.  If they lack that ability then they should be trained further or replaced.  It's that simple.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI ?
What should happen to you then ? Then the job should be done by an AI , and you should train for a job that ca n't be so economically automated .
It 's not like this issue has n't come up before with the advent of robotic assembly lines and , well , any kind of automation technology ever.Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it 's OK to mistreat them ( see the electroshock proponents above ) .We 're not just talking about general ignorance/stupidity here ; we 're talking about someone 's ability to do their job .
If they lack that ability then they should be trained further or replaced .
It 's that simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI?
What should happen to you then?Then the job should be done by an AI, and you should train for a job that can't be so economically automated.
It's not like this issue hasn't come up before with the advent of robotic assembly lines and, well, any kind of automation technology ever.Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).We're not just talking about general ignorance/stupidity here; we're talking about someone's ability to do their job.
If they lack that ability then they should be trained further or replaced.
It's that simple.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315680</id>
	<title>Yeah, That'll Work</title>
	<author>RobotRunAmok</author>
	<datestamp>1267457640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because the bosses are hanging on every word and observation that the Help Desk Guy shares with them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the bosses are hanging on every word and observation that the Help Desk Guy shares with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the bosses are hanging on every word and observation that the Help Desk Guy shares with them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323690</id>
	<title>Re:Make others remember</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267444560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hm, naaah, it'd lose its impact when eight or nine sets of speakers are blasting it at once as errors pop up.  Not to mention that the people who actually ARE watching pr0n would just get lost in the shuffle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hm , naaah , it 'd lose its impact when eight or nine sets of speakers are blasting it at once as errors pop up .
Not to mention that the people who actually ARE watching pr0n would just get lost in the shuffle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hm, naaah, it'd lose its impact when eight or nine sets of speakers are blasting it at once as errors pop up.
Not to mention that the people who actually ARE watching pr0n would just get lost in the shuffle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315268</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31340320</id>
	<title>Re:Their lips get tired</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267549980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, at the risk of sounding stupid, I don't get it. What does "their lips get tired" mean? Tired of what?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , at the risk of sounding stupid , I do n't get it .
What does " their lips get tired " mean ?
Tired of what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, at the risk of sounding stupid, I don't get it.
What does "their lips get tired" mean?
Tired of what?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316154</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?</p></div><p>Become Electrical/Computer Engineers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI ?
What should happen to you then ? Become Electrical/Computer Engineers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI?
What should happen to you then?Become Electrical/Computer Engineers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316998</id>
	<title>Fix the problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i think users would start to pay attention if the program gave the user a way to fix it and not just an error code that wants to send information back to the main server. if you really gave the user an easy way to fix the error, many more people would try to fix the problem. where it stand now, is its just an annoyence to most people when all they want to do is use the email (which they may have a hard time even using that haha) thats how i feel at least.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i think users would start to pay attention if the program gave the user a way to fix it and not just an error code that wants to send information back to the main server .
if you really gave the user an easy way to fix the error , many more people would try to fix the problem .
where it stand now , is its just an annoyence to most people when all they want to do is use the email ( which they may have a hard time even using that haha ) thats how i feel at least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i think users would start to pay attention if the program gave the user a way to fix it and not just an error code that wants to send information back to the main server.
if you really gave the user an easy way to fix the error, many more people would try to fix the problem.
where it stand now, is its just an annoyence to most people when all they want to do is use the email (which they may have a hard time even using that haha) thats how i feel at least.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315296</id>
	<title>Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>We have found that the only way to make users take responsibility for errors is to give them a penalty for forcing the error to go away. For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.

Of course, this all depends on the type of users you are dealing with, as more technically adept users wouldnt accept this kind of system, but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes and making sure the IT department is aware of them in order to fix the issue before it gets too hard to manage, these are the only steps that worked. Now, all of our end users are aware that if they ignore errors, they are going to suffer for it themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We have found that the only way to make users take responsibility for errors is to give them a penalty for forcing the error to go away .
For starters , where possible , the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away , and if they reboot to get rid of it ( Task Manager is disabled on all client PC 's ) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes .
Of course , this all depends on the type of users you are dealing with , as more technically adept users wouldnt accept this kind of system , but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes and making sure the IT department is aware of them in order to fix the issue before it gets too hard to manage , these are the only steps that worked .
Now , all of our end users are aware that if they ignore errors , they are going to suffer for it themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have found that the only way to make users take responsibility for errors is to give them a penalty for forcing the error to go away.
For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.
Of course, this all depends on the type of users you are dealing with, as more technically adept users wouldnt accept this kind of system, but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes and making sure the IT department is aware of them in order to fix the issue before it gets too hard to manage, these are the only steps that worked.
Now, all of our end users are aware that if they ignore errors, they are going to suffer for it themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320110</id>
	<title>Are we moving toward 'iconerate' users?</title>
	<author>Japher</author>
	<datestamp>1267474020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read a book some time ago in which most people were 'iconerate' as opposed to being fully literate. It meant that they could recognize specific icons and symbols and understand them, but that user interfaces has become so sophisticated that understanding beyond that wasn't needed.</p><p>While this isn't exactly the idea you've described, there is more than a passing similarity. Users fly through messages and menus quickly because they know what to expect. They remember that blue thing with the W on it starts word, and the green one with the X starts excel. The problem with using this kind of system with error messages is that unless you're using it to capture very common errors, the users will never get to the point where they can immediately associate the icon with a specific problem. And if the users see the error often enough to achieve that level of understanding then they probably know how to deal with it themselves. Which, come to think of it, may not be bad if they could come to associate an icon with specific recovery steps. but it's not going to help you with the complex issues which is where the helpdesk really needs it.</p><p>The puppy error idea may work in the short term, but soon I think that the novelty will wear off and they'll all blur into "some cartooish icon" in the user's mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read a book some time ago in which most people were 'iconerate ' as opposed to being fully literate .
It meant that they could recognize specific icons and symbols and understand them , but that user interfaces has become so sophisticated that understanding beyond that was n't needed.While this is n't exactly the idea you 've described , there is more than a passing similarity .
Users fly through messages and menus quickly because they know what to expect .
They remember that blue thing with the W on it starts word , and the green one with the X starts excel .
The problem with using this kind of system with error messages is that unless you 're using it to capture very common errors , the users will never get to the point where they can immediately associate the icon with a specific problem .
And if the users see the error often enough to achieve that level of understanding then they probably know how to deal with it themselves .
Which , come to think of it , may not be bad if they could come to associate an icon with specific recovery steps .
but it 's not going to help you with the complex issues which is where the helpdesk really needs it.The puppy error idea may work in the short term , but soon I think that the novelty will wear off and they 'll all blur into " some cartooish icon " in the user 's mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read a book some time ago in which most people were 'iconerate' as opposed to being fully literate.
It meant that they could recognize specific icons and symbols and understand them, but that user interfaces has become so sophisticated that understanding beyond that wasn't needed.While this isn't exactly the idea you've described, there is more than a passing similarity.
Users fly through messages and menus quickly because they know what to expect.
They remember that blue thing with the W on it starts word, and the green one with the X starts excel.
The problem with using this kind of system with error messages is that unless you're using it to capture very common errors, the users will never get to the point where they can immediately associate the icon with a specific problem.
And if the users see the error often enough to achieve that level of understanding then they probably know how to deal with it themselves.
Which, come to think of it, may not be bad if they could come to associate an icon with specific recovery steps.
but it's not going to help you with the complex issues which is where the helpdesk really needs it.The puppy error idea may work in the short term, but soon I think that the novelty will wear off and they'll all blur into "some cartooish icon" in the user's mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319958</id>
	<title>The "my users are idiots" cop-out</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1267473360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) The fact that your software produces errors means that your software has a problem you need to fix. I distinguish between resource failures (file not found) and full on errors (attempted to access null object, for instance). Files not being found is normally outside your control. Dereferencing a null pointer is completely your fault. The fact that the user doesn't understand your message is not the user's fault. The user does not, nor should, give a shit what a "null pointer" is. By the time the error is displayed on the screen, you have already failed.</p><p>2) Depending on users to accurately report complex error conditions is an exercise in futility. Humans do not work that way. Assuming that they do, then accusing them of being stupid when they don't, makes <i>you</i> the moron. If you need to know error details, log them, and give the user a way to send you the report -- even better, send the report automatically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) The fact that your software produces errors means that your software has a problem you need to fix .
I distinguish between resource failures ( file not found ) and full on errors ( attempted to access null object , for instance ) .
Files not being found is normally outside your control .
Dereferencing a null pointer is completely your fault .
The fact that the user does n't understand your message is not the user 's fault .
The user does not , nor should , give a shit what a " null pointer " is .
By the time the error is displayed on the screen , you have already failed.2 ) Depending on users to accurately report complex error conditions is an exercise in futility .
Humans do not work that way .
Assuming that they do , then accusing them of being stupid when they do n't , makes you the moron .
If you need to know error details , log them , and give the user a way to send you the report -- even better , send the report automatically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) The fact that your software produces errors means that your software has a problem you need to fix.
I distinguish between resource failures (file not found) and full on errors (attempted to access null object, for instance).
Files not being found is normally outside your control.
Dereferencing a null pointer is completely your fault.
The fact that the user doesn't understand your message is not the user's fault.
The user does not, nor should, give a shit what a "null pointer" is.
By the time the error is displayed on the screen, you have already failed.2) Depending on users to accurately report complex error conditions is an exercise in futility.
Humans do not work that way.
Assuming that they do, then accusing them of being stupid when they don't, makes you the moron.
If you need to know error details, log them, and give the user a way to send you the report -- even better, send the report automatically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319884</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Ksevio</author>
	<datestamp>1267473120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've had problems with users ignoring the errors that tell them exactly what they need to do to fix the problem.  In one case, the user needs to set the directory path to a program (usually can find it in the registry, but sometimes it's installed wrong).  They will copy the message that says where to set it and send it to me.  I'll then respond with just about the exact same message and the problem will be solved.  This isn't something that's so much an error, but part of the setup process the user skipped over.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had problems with users ignoring the errors that tell them exactly what they need to do to fix the problem .
In one case , the user needs to set the directory path to a program ( usually can find it in the registry , but sometimes it 's installed wrong ) .
They will copy the message that says where to set it and send it to me .
I 'll then respond with just about the exact same message and the problem will be solved .
This is n't something that 's so much an error , but part of the setup process the user skipped over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had problems with users ignoring the errors that tell them exactly what they need to do to fix the problem.
In one case, the user needs to set the directory path to a program (usually can find it in the registry, but sometimes it's installed wrong).
They will copy the message that says where to set it and send it to me.
I'll then respond with just about the exact same message and the problem will be solved.
This isn't something that's so much an error, but part of the setup process the user skipped over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318514</id>
	<title>Re:Their lips get tired</title>
	<author>mzs</author>
	<datestamp>1267467780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if your chosen password is in fact all caps? Is that a stupid error message then?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if your chosen password is in fact all caps ?
Is that a stupid error message then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if your chosen password is in fact all caps?
Is that a stupid error message then?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31324212</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267447200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Users don't read error messages because:<br>1) Error messages don't tell them what is wrong with their systems.<br>2) Error messages don't tell them what to do to fix things.</p><p>The problem is a business issue:<br>1) Software Developers simply don't care.<br>2) Project managers don't need to care since they only need to get a working product of some kind through QA.<br>3) Marketing doesn't think good user interaction will help sell the product.</p><p>The only people who care about error messages and user interaction in general, have no authority on a project -- Service technicians; UI designers; technical publications people. If these support people get too pushy, the developer team will have the marketing team go to the Project Manager with a request to fire whomever is asking uncomfortable questions.</p><p>The question is a great one, but the answer is pretty much a joke. bottom line: If Engineering  wanted good error messages; their software would have good error messages.</p><p>sc</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users do n't read error messages because : 1 ) Error messages do n't tell them what is wrong with their systems.2 ) Error messages do n't tell them what to do to fix things.The problem is a business issue : 1 ) Software Developers simply do n't care.2 ) Project managers do n't need to care since they only need to get a working product of some kind through QA.3 ) Marketing does n't think good user interaction will help sell the product.The only people who care about error messages and user interaction in general , have no authority on a project -- Service technicians ; UI designers ; technical publications people .
If these support people get too pushy , the developer team will have the marketing team go to the Project Manager with a request to fire whomever is asking uncomfortable questions.The question is a great one , but the answer is pretty much a joke .
bottom line : If Engineering wanted good error messages ; their software would have good error messages.sc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users don't read error messages because:1) Error messages don't tell them what is wrong with their systems.2) Error messages don't tell them what to do to fix things.The problem is a business issue:1) Software Developers simply don't care.2) Project managers don't need to care since they only need to get a working product of some kind through QA.3) Marketing doesn't think good user interaction will help sell the product.The only people who care about error messages and user interaction in general, have no authority on a project -- Service technicians; UI designers; technical publications people.
If these support people get too pushy, the developer team will have the marketing team go to the Project Manager with a request to fire whomever is asking uncomfortable questions.The question is a great one, but the answer is pretty much a joke.
bottom line: If Engineering  wanted good error messages; their software would have good error messages.sc</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315820</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sir, are wrong. Stupid people will not get any better if they are not informed. Tell them at every chance you get to read a book or take the ham sandwich out of their mouth while they watch American Idol and replace it with motivation. If this is best done verbally, so be it. We must stop the seemingly never ending tide of stupidity or Idiocracy will be come the standard. Time to evolve past these people and leave them in the dust.</p><p>The other option is to have a licensing/fine process for reproduction, which should help to cure the extra spending on public services..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sir , are wrong .
Stupid people will not get any better if they are not informed .
Tell them at every chance you get to read a book or take the ham sandwich out of their mouth while they watch American Idol and replace it with motivation .
If this is best done verbally , so be it .
We must stop the seemingly never ending tide of stupidity or Idiocracy will be come the standard .
Time to evolve past these people and leave them in the dust.The other option is to have a licensing/fine process for reproduction , which should help to cure the extra spending on public services. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sir, are wrong.
Stupid people will not get any better if they are not informed.
Tell them at every chance you get to read a book or take the ham sandwich out of their mouth while they watch American Idol and replace it with motivation.
If this is best done verbally, so be it.
We must stop the seemingly never ending tide of stupidity or Idiocracy will be come the standard.
Time to evolve past these people and leave them in the dust.The other option is to have a licensing/fine process for reproduction, which should help to cure the extra spending on public services..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</id>
	<title>Explaining error messges is what support is for.</title>
	<author>Gribflex</author>
	<datestamp>1267457820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a lengthy discussion with some of our field engineers, and a few of our customers, about a year ago about how they use the documentation to troubleshoot problems. My main goal was to see if there was something that we could do to get customers to read the docs more (and call support less).</p><p>Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side. Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract? No? Well, it's a lot. If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a lengthy discussion with some of our field engineers , and a few of our customers , about a year ago about how they use the documentation to troubleshoot problems .
My main goal was to see if there was something that we could do to get customers to read the docs more ( and call support less ) .Eventually , someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side .
Basically , he said " Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract ?
No ? Well , it 's a lot .
If I have any problems that do n't fix themselves in under five minutes , I 'm going to pick up the phone and call you .
I 'm paying you to support me if I have trouble , I should n't have to troubleshoot it myself .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a lengthy discussion with some of our field engineers, and a few of our customers, about a year ago about how they use the documentation to troubleshoot problems.
My main goal was to see if there was something that we could do to get customers to read the docs more (and call support less).Eventually, someone cut to the heart of the issue from there side.
Basically, he said "Do you know how much I pay each year for my support contract?
No? Well, it's a lot.
If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you.
I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315622</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p></div><p>I agree: errors should not be allowed.  That's why, when the user does something dumb, instead of allowing an error to occur, you should display a message on the screen alerting the user to the problem and informing them of how to fix it, so that an error doesn't occur.</p><p>Come on, seriously?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.I agree : errors should not be allowed .
That 's why , when the user does something dumb , instead of allowing an error to occur , you should display a message on the screen alerting the user to the problem and informing them of how to fix it , so that an error does n't occur.Come on , seriously ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.I agree: errors should not be allowed.
That's why, when the user does something dumb, instead of allowing an error to occur, you should display a message on the screen alerting the user to the problem and informing them of how to fix it, so that an error doesn't occur.Come on, seriously?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317332</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267463460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do.</i></p> </div><p>Which is fine and understandable. Annoying at times, but fine and understandable. What <i>isn't</i> fine, however, is how often they then call asking for support <i>after</i> dismissing the error message.<br>

It's when people say <i>"The program crashed and there was an error message, so I dismissed it and restarted. What went wrong?"</i> And they have no idea what was in the error message, and don't seem to get that they sorta help me troubleshoot what the problem might have been.</p><p>On the flip-side, I've known some users who will actually pass on the error message. Whether by email, screenshot, post-in-note or even just leaving it on the screen and asking if I could have a look.<br>
They may not be interested in how it works or what actually went wrong, but at least they realise that those annoying little messages might actually help a techie get them up and working faster.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What they want is to pick up the phone , make a call , and have someone tell them what to do .
Which is fine and understandable .
Annoying at times , but fine and understandable .
What is n't fine , however , is how often they then call asking for support after dismissing the error message .
It 's when people say " The program crashed and there was an error message , so I dismissed it and restarted .
What went wrong ?
" And they have no idea what was in the error message , and do n't seem to get that they sorta help me troubleshoot what the problem might have been.On the flip-side , I 've known some users who will actually pass on the error message .
Whether by email , screenshot , post-in-note or even just leaving it on the screen and asking if I could have a look .
They may not be interested in how it works or what actually went wrong , but at least they realise that those annoying little messages might actually help a techie get them up and working faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do.
Which is fine and understandable.
Annoying at times, but fine and understandable.
What isn't fine, however, is how often they then call asking for support after dismissing the error message.
It's when people say "The program crashed and there was an error message, so I dismissed it and restarted.
What went wrong?
" And they have no idea what was in the error message, and don't seem to get that they sorta help me troubleshoot what the problem might have been.On the flip-side, I've known some users who will actually pass on the error message.
Whether by email, screenshot, post-in-note or even just leaving it on the screen and asking if I could have a look.
They may not be interested in how it works or what actually went wrong, but at least they realise that those annoying little messages might actually help a techie get them up and working faster.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318718</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267468500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The order of the buttons doesn't "change from window to window".<br>"OK" is always on the left if you are using KDE and on the right if using Gnome.</p><p>Of course lots of users mix and match but then again getting those users to read error messages is not an issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The order of the buttons does n't " change from window to window " .
" OK " is always on the left if you are using KDE and on the right if using Gnome.Of course lots of users mix and match but then again getting those users to read error messages is not an issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The order of the buttons doesn't "change from window to window".
"OK" is always on the left if you are using KDE and on the right if using Gnome.Of course lots of users mix and match but then again getting those users to read error messages is not an issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319940</id>
	<title>Use Preattentive Attributes?</title>
	<author>KeithConover</author>
	<datestamp>1267473360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the goal is simply to have users remember the error message, there is some science on learnability and memorability.</p><p>See <a href="http://ed-informatics.org/2009/12/28/computers-in-the-ed-1/" title="ed-informatics.org" rel="nofollow">http://ed-informatics.org/2009/12/28/computers-in-the-ed-1/</a> [ed-informatics.org]</p><p>First of all, if you read about evolutionary psychology, say, the works of Merlin Donald, you will realize that people are designed to remember stories and not numbers, so you could have each error message tell a different story.</p><p>See <a href="http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/07/computers-in-the-ed-5/" title="ed-informatics.org" rel="nofollow">http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/07/computers-in-the-ed-5/</a> [ed-informatics.org]</p><p>Or, you could reference the work of Colin Ware, and design error messages that have icons that use preattentive attributes.</p><p>See <a href="http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/25/computers-in-the-ed-8" title="ed-informatics.org" rel="nofollow">http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/25/computers-in-the-ed-8</a> [ed-informatics.org]</p><p>and</p><p><a href="http://ed-informatics.org/2010/02/11/computers-in-the-ed-9/" title="ed-informatics.org" rel="nofollow">http://ed-informatics.org/2010/02/11/computers-in-the-ed-9/</a> [ed-informatics.org]</p><p>While this tends to answer what you asked, which is to help users remember error messages, some of the other proposed solutions already posted may actually help solve your problem better (debug logs, etc.).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the goal is simply to have users remember the error message , there is some science on learnability and memorability.See http : //ed-informatics.org/2009/12/28/computers-in-the-ed-1/ [ ed-informatics.org ] First of all , if you read about evolutionary psychology , say , the works of Merlin Donald , you will realize that people are designed to remember stories and not numbers , so you could have each error message tell a different story.See http : //ed-informatics.org/2010/01/07/computers-in-the-ed-5/ [ ed-informatics.org ] Or , you could reference the work of Colin Ware , and design error messages that have icons that use preattentive attributes.See http : //ed-informatics.org/2010/01/25/computers-in-the-ed-8 [ ed-informatics.org ] andhttp : //ed-informatics.org/2010/02/11/computers-in-the-ed-9/ [ ed-informatics.org ] While this tends to answer what you asked , which is to help users remember error messages , some of the other proposed solutions already posted may actually help solve your problem better ( debug logs , etc .
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the goal is simply to have users remember the error message, there is some science on learnability and memorability.See http://ed-informatics.org/2009/12/28/computers-in-the-ed-1/ [ed-informatics.org]First of all, if you read about evolutionary psychology, say, the works of Merlin Donald, you will realize that people are designed to remember stories and not numbers, so you could have each error message tell a different story.See http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/07/computers-in-the-ed-5/ [ed-informatics.org]Or, you could reference the work of Colin Ware, and design error messages that have icons that use preattentive attributes.See http://ed-informatics.org/2010/01/25/computers-in-the-ed-8 [ed-informatics.org]andhttp://ed-informatics.org/2010/02/11/computers-in-the-ed-9/ [ed-informatics.org]While this tends to answer what you asked, which is to help users remember error messages, some of the other proposed solutions already posted may actually help solve your problem better (debug logs, etc.
).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315816</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Haha... what industry do you work in?<br>Try again Mr. perfect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Haha... what industry do you work in ? Try again Mr. perfect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haha... what industry do you work in?Try again Mr. perfect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315958</id>
	<title>Two things.....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In your SIX hour support call, did anyone ask if there were any error messages?</p><p>The software was poorly designed if something that simple broke it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In your SIX hour support call , did anyone ask if there were any error messages ? The software was poorly designed if something that simple broke it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In your SIX hour support call, did anyone ask if there were any error messages?The software was poorly designed if something that simple broke it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315618</id>
	<title>Screen Shot?</title>
	<author>Fear13ss</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity.  Yet 99\% of them are completely comfortable capturing screen images of items they are unsure of.  I suggest installing a simple to use print screen utility.  My personal favorite for ease of use is FastStone Capture, which would require licensing, but it allows them to quickly capture part or all of the screen and attach it to an email in a few simple clicks.  Since the error itself is almost more valuable then the log data, it could be relatively easy to justify the cost.  It also may be beneficial to any users that update business processes or other documentation with screenshots.

Hope that helps, and good luck.  I'll be keeping an eye on the thread to see if anyone else has any great suggestions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have roughly 50 users I support , of varying technical capacity .
Yet 99 \ % of them are completely comfortable capturing screen images of items they are unsure of .
I suggest installing a simple to use print screen utility .
My personal favorite for ease of use is FastStone Capture , which would require licensing , but it allows them to quickly capture part or all of the screen and attach it to an email in a few simple clicks .
Since the error itself is almost more valuable then the log data , it could be relatively easy to justify the cost .
It also may be beneficial to any users that update business processes or other documentation with screenshots .
Hope that helps , and good luck .
I 'll be keeping an eye on the thread to see if anyone else has any great suggestions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity.
Yet 99\% of them are completely comfortable capturing screen images of items they are unsure of.
I suggest installing a simple to use print screen utility.
My personal favorite for ease of use is FastStone Capture, which would require licensing, but it allows them to quickly capture part or all of the screen and attach it to an email in a few simple clicks.
Since the error itself is almost more valuable then the log data, it could be relatively easy to justify the cost.
It also may be beneficial to any users that update business processes or other documentation with screenshots.
Hope that helps, and good luck.
I'll be keeping an eye on the thread to see if anyone else has any great suggestions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315514</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p><p>...</p><p>If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></div><p>So how should you deal with (for example) the user entering an invalid invoice or order code that you have to check against the back-end servers? Guess which one they *really* meant?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors....If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed.So how should you deal with ( for example ) the user entering an invalid invoice or order code that you have to check against the back-end servers ?
Guess which one they * really * meant ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors....If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.So how should you deal with (for example) the user entering an invalid invoice or order code that you have to check against the back-end servers?
Guess which one they *really* meant?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316338</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>ArsenneLupin</author>
	<datestamp>1267459680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A, the subtle difference between a non-fatal and a fatal error...</htmltext>
<tokenext>A , the subtle difference between a non-fatal and a fatal error.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A, the subtle difference between a non-fatal and a fatal error...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316386</id>
	<title>Make a better interface</title>
	<author>eples</author>
	<datestamp>1267459860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You could always make the software easier to use.<br>
Your description sounds like the errors are because the user "didn't do something right". <br> <br>Why not accommodate the thought and usage patterns of your users instead of forcing them to memorize a cryptic list of "things to click on to get this thing to work".</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could always make the software easier to use .
Your description sounds like the errors are because the user " did n't do something right " .
Why not accommodate the thought and usage patterns of your users instead of forcing them to memorize a cryptic list of " things to click on to get this thing to work " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could always make the software easier to use.
Your description sounds like the errors are because the user "didn't do something right".
Why not accommodate the thought and usage patterns of your users instead of forcing them to memorize a cryptic list of "things to click on to get this thing to work".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316708</id>
	<title>Consider that some of us are exclusively verbal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I was thinking about creating icons or logos</p></div><p>Remember that there are some people (like me) who are exclusively verbal, and for us, icons rarely provide any information.</p><p>I often do not "get" what an icon is supposed to be a picture of, and when I do occasionally recognize an icon, it is often far too generic for me to relate it to a task.  (For example, I can recognize a screen-and-keyboard icon, but I have no ability to map that into a meaningful function.)  I think the only icon I have ever "gotten" has been a question-mark-in-a-circle to represent "click this if you have a question".</p><p>Just remember that some of us just automatically skip over all icons, and focus only on words.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking about creating icons or logosRemember that there are some people ( like me ) who are exclusively verbal , and for us , icons rarely provide any information.I often do not " get " what an icon is supposed to be a picture of , and when I do occasionally recognize an icon , it is often far too generic for me to relate it to a task .
( For example , I can recognize a screen-and-keyboard icon , but I have no ability to map that into a meaningful function .
) I think the only icon I have ever " gotten " has been a question-mark-in-a-circle to represent " click this if you have a question " .Just remember that some of us just automatically skip over all icons , and focus only on words .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking about creating icons or logosRemember that there are some people (like me) who are exclusively verbal, and for us, icons rarely provide any information.I often do not "get" what an icon is supposed to be a picture of, and when I do occasionally recognize an icon, it is often far too generic for me to relate it to a task.
(For example, I can recognize a screen-and-keyboard icon, but I have no ability to map that into a meaningful function.
)  I think the only icon I have ever "gotten" has been a question-mark-in-a-circle to represent "click this if you have a question".Just remember that some of us just automatically skip over all icons, and focus only on words.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317212</id>
	<title>Cut &amp; Paste.</title>
	<author>Hasai</author>
	<datestamp>1267463040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When one of our more, ah, "intellectually challenged" personnel call the help desk, the first thing I have my people do is have the employee do a screen capture and send it to the help desk. Email if it's not the problem, print if it is.<br>If the employee just plowed through the message without recording it, our SOP is "Reboot. Give us a call when you have a screen capture for us; otherwise we can't troubleshoot your problem."</p><p>Possible programming approach: Have the program itself do the screen capture and email. Package the logs with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When one of our more , ah , " intellectually challenged " personnel call the help desk , the first thing I have my people do is have the employee do a screen capture and send it to the help desk .
Email if it 's not the problem , print if it is.If the employee just plowed through the message without recording it , our SOP is " Reboot .
Give us a call when you have a screen capture for us ; otherwise we ca n't troubleshoot your problem .
" Possible programming approach : Have the program itself do the screen capture and email .
Package the logs with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When one of our more, ah, "intellectually challenged" personnel call the help desk, the first thing I have my people do is have the employee do a screen capture and send it to the help desk.
Email if it's not the problem, print if it is.If the employee just plowed through the message without recording it, our SOP is "Reboot.
Give us a call when you have a screen capture for us; otherwise we can't troubleshoot your problem.
"Possible programming approach: Have the program itself do the screen capture and email.
Package the logs with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320400</id>
	<title>Re:Use Humor</title>
	<author>mvdwege</author>
	<datestamp>1267475160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only is this condescending as all get out, it is also a sign of lousy software. If the developers can't be arsed to implement decent exception handling, and expect me to jump through hoops to get at my own data, they're lazy bastards.</p><p>It is shit like this that makes me hate doing end user support. Last time I had to fix an issue with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pst files not being synced across a Terminal Server cluster. I mentioned to the user "I'm going to try to copy the files manually. That <em>ought</em> to work, and on a *nix machine that practically always works, but my experience on Windows is that programmers sometimes have stupid assumptions about files, so I can't promise anything.". The user, our CEO, understood and said, "sure, go ahead, I'm glad you're at least trying."</p><p>But it's a crying shame when I as a sysadmin can't trust basic filesystem operations. And shit like the DV Rack programmers are pulling up above is <em>not</em> helping.</p><p>If I ever get my hands on a developer who pulls a stunt like that, I'll put his head on a stake, pour encourager les autres.</p><p>
Mart</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only is this condescending as all get out , it is also a sign of lousy software .
If the developers ca n't be arsed to implement decent exception handling , and expect me to jump through hoops to get at my own data , they 're lazy bastards.It is shit like this that makes me hate doing end user support .
Last time I had to fix an issue with .pst files not being synced across a Terminal Server cluster .
I mentioned to the user " I 'm going to try to copy the files manually .
That ought to work , and on a * nix machine that practically always works , but my experience on Windows is that programmers sometimes have stupid assumptions about files , so I ca n't promise anything. " .
The user , our CEO , understood and said , " sure , go ahead , I 'm glad you 're at least trying .
" But it 's a crying shame when I as a sysadmin ca n't trust basic filesystem operations .
And shit like the DV Rack programmers are pulling up above is not helping.If I ever get my hands on a developer who pulls a stunt like that , I 'll put his head on a stake , pour encourager les autres .
Mart</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only is this condescending as all get out, it is also a sign of lousy software.
If the developers can't be arsed to implement decent exception handling, and expect me to jump through hoops to get at my own data, they're lazy bastards.It is shit like this that makes me hate doing end user support.
Last time I had to fix an issue with .pst files not being synced across a Terminal Server cluster.
I mentioned to the user "I'm going to try to copy the files manually.
That ought to work, and on a *nix machine that practically always works, but my experience on Windows is that programmers sometimes have stupid assumptions about files, so I can't promise anything.".
The user, our CEO, understood and said, "sure, go ahead, I'm glad you're at least trying.
"But it's a crying shame when I as a sysadmin can't trust basic filesystem operations.
And shit like the DV Rack programmers are pulling up above is not helping.If I ever get my hands on a developer who pulls a stunt like that, I'll put his head on a stake, pour encourager les autres.
Mart</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318010</id>
	<title>A lifetime of intelectual frustration awaits</title>
	<author>ronbo142</author>
	<datestamp>1267466100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Basicly I break down users into three groups. I have no sientific facts to back up my claims.

Group 1 Power Users smart enough to figure 99\% of his or her computer problems and actually read the error messages. This group is maybe 20\% of the group. This group typically performs 80\% of the work for the organization
Group 2 Users can read but are just to darn lazy or too epethetic to try so they just open tickets with the help desk in the hopes that you have time to come to the rescue.. This group comprized 60\% of the group This group contributes about 15\% of the overall effort to the organization.
Group 3 Should not be allowed to have a computer and really should be cut as dead weight but because we are a social welfare state these users just go through life and collect a pay check and provide very little maybe 5\%.

In a perfect world we would be able to just shoot group 2 and 3.

Ronbo</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basicly I break down users into three groups .
I have no sientific facts to back up my claims .
Group 1 Power Users smart enough to figure 99 \ % of his or her computer problems and actually read the error messages .
This group is maybe 20 \ % of the group .
This group typically performs 80 \ % of the work for the organization Group 2 Users can read but are just to darn lazy or too epethetic to try so they just open tickets with the help desk in the hopes that you have time to come to the rescue.. This group comprized 60 \ % of the group This group contributes about 15 \ % of the overall effort to the organization .
Group 3 Should not be allowed to have a computer and really should be cut as dead weight but because we are a social welfare state these users just go through life and collect a pay check and provide very little maybe 5 \ % .
In a perfect world we would be able to just shoot group 2 and 3 .
Ronbo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basicly I break down users into three groups.
I have no sientific facts to back up my claims.
Group 1 Power Users smart enough to figure 99\% of his or her computer problems and actually read the error messages.
This group is maybe 20\% of the group.
This group typically performs 80\% of the work for the organization
Group 2 Users can read but are just to darn lazy or too epethetic to try so they just open tickets with the help desk in the hopes that you have time to come to the rescue.. This group comprized 60\% of the group This group contributes about 15\% of the overall effort to the organization.
Group 3 Should not be allowed to have a computer and really should be cut as dead weight but because we are a social welfare state these users just go through life and collect a pay check and provide very little maybe 5\%.
In a perfect world we would be able to just shoot group 2 and 3.
Ronbo</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320616</id>
	<title>Error text copy/paste</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267476120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A little off topic, but I try to include the EXACT text of error messages for the hard working tech support dweebs.  I find it frustrating when the text not only cannot be captured by normal means, but often not even by my Scraper tool.  Help us help you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A little off topic , but I try to include the EXACT text of error messages for the hard working tech support dweebs .
I find it frustrating when the text not only can not be captured by normal means , but often not even by my Scraper tool .
Help us help you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A little off topic, but I try to include the EXACT text of error messages for the hard working tech support dweebs.
I find it frustrating when the text not only cannot be captured by normal means, but often not even by my Scraper tool.
Help us help you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316026</id>
	<title>"Made to Stick" supports the 'puppy picture' idea</title>
	<author>david.emery</author>
	<datestamp>1267458780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our boss picked this book, "Made to Stick" (http://www.amazon.com/Made-Stick-Ideas-Survive-Others/dp/1400064287 ) as this year's reading assignment.  There are some interesting ideas in here that support things like "the sad puppy picture error".</p><p>But a big part of the problem that I've seen is the irrelevance of error messages to the recipient.  The Blue Screen of Death in theory contains useful information to the developer, but is completely meaningless to the user.  Error reporting (whether it's exceptions tossed by a module or alerts presented to the user) should be based on a clear model of the user/caller's world.  "A603 Load Module Does Not Exist*" is a lot less useful than "Cannot locate program to run".</p><p>(* If you're old enough to recognize the source of this error message, reply below.  First one to get it right gets a prize...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our boss picked this book , " Made to Stick " ( http : //www.amazon.com/Made-Stick-Ideas-Survive-Others/dp/1400064287 ) as this year 's reading assignment .
There are some interesting ideas in here that support things like " the sad puppy picture error " .But a big part of the problem that I 've seen is the irrelevance of error messages to the recipient .
The Blue Screen of Death in theory contains useful information to the developer , but is completely meaningless to the user .
Error reporting ( whether it 's exceptions tossed by a module or alerts presented to the user ) should be based on a clear model of the user/caller 's world .
" A603 Load Module Does Not Exist * " is a lot less useful than " Can not locate program to run " .
( * If you 're old enough to recognize the source of this error message , reply below .
First one to get it right gets a prize... : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our boss picked this book, "Made to Stick" (http://www.amazon.com/Made-Stick-Ideas-Survive-Others/dp/1400064287 ) as this year's reading assignment.
There are some interesting ideas in here that support things like "the sad puppy picture error".But a big part of the problem that I've seen is the irrelevance of error messages to the recipient.
The Blue Screen of Death in theory contains useful information to the developer, but is completely meaningless to the user.
Error reporting (whether it's exceptions tossed by a module or alerts presented to the user) should be based on a clear model of the user/caller's world.
"A603 Load Module Does Not Exist*" is a lot less useful than "Cannot locate program to run".
(* If you're old enough to recognize the source of this error message, reply below.
First one to get it right gets a prize... :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319932</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>windex82</author>
	<datestamp>1267473360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When this type of discussion comes up I have this little analogy I like to use...</p><p>Office Worker : Computer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:: Carpenter : Hammer</p><p>What would you do if you hired a carpenter that didn't know how to use their hammer?  Or tried to use the hammer for everything? Or could use the hammer but despite seeing the claw end every time they used it were completely oblivious as to its use.  I think the much larger problem is that people refuse to or have been so dumbed down that they cannot comprehend what they see, hear and read even if they take the time to actually see, hear or read something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When this type of discussion comes up I have this little analogy I like to use...Office Worker : Computer : : Carpenter : HammerWhat would you do if you hired a carpenter that did n't know how to use their hammer ?
Or tried to use the hammer for everything ?
Or could use the hammer but despite seeing the claw end every time they used it were completely oblivious as to its use .
I think the much larger problem is that people refuse to or have been so dumbed down that they can not comprehend what they see , hear and read even if they take the time to actually see , hear or read something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When this type of discussion comes up I have this little analogy I like to use...Office Worker : Computer :: Carpenter : HammerWhat would you do if you hired a carpenter that didn't know how to use their hammer?
Or tried to use the hammer for everything?
Or could use the hammer but despite seeing the claw end every time they used it were completely oblivious as to its use.
I think the much larger problem is that people refuse to or have been so dumbed down that they cannot comprehend what they see, hear and read even if they take the time to actually see, hear or read something.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315504</id>
	<title>Guru Meditation</title>
	<author>mrybczyn</author>
	<datestamp>1267456980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amiga had this right.  Use a little humor with your messages, it may diffuse the anger and get some sympathy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amiga had this right .
Use a little humor with your messages , it may diffuse the anger and get some sympathy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amiga had this right.
Use a little humor with your messages, it may diffuse the anger and get some sympathy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317008</id>
	<title>Boobs</title>
	<author>allcoolnameswheretak</author>
	<datestamp>1267462320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Put an animated gif of shaking boobs over the error message. 100\% guaranteed read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Put an animated gif of shaking boobs over the error message .
100 \ % guaranteed read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put an animated gif of shaking boobs over the error message.
100\% guaranteed read.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316224</id>
	<title>Actually they just don't care</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was trying to explain to my wife (who was pretty sciency, seems less so now) why I hated the way science/history are taught in school. I said they go on and on about the 'great minds' that history was kind to like Edison, but don't even mention people like Nikola Tesla. She proved my point by asking 'who?' I said Tesla, the guy Edison stole many of his inventions from and the father of AC power without which we couldn't have our nationwide power system. I start to explain why AC facilitates high voltage power lines (transformers) and why HVPLs are important (low power loss per distance) she stopped me and said don't explain it too me.</p><p>And she wonders why I can't remember everything she says. While basically telling me tldl (listen).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was trying to explain to my wife ( who was pretty sciency , seems less so now ) why I hated the way science/history are taught in school .
I said they go on and on about the 'great minds ' that history was kind to like Edison , but do n't even mention people like Nikola Tesla .
She proved my point by asking 'who ?
' I said Tesla , the guy Edison stole many of his inventions from and the father of AC power without which we could n't have our nationwide power system .
I start to explain why AC facilitates high voltage power lines ( transformers ) and why HVPLs are important ( low power loss per distance ) she stopped me and said do n't explain it too me.And she wonders why I ca n't remember everything she says .
While basically telling me tldl ( listen ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was trying to explain to my wife (who was pretty sciency, seems less so now) why I hated the way science/history are taught in school.
I said they go on and on about the 'great minds' that history was kind to like Edison, but don't even mention people like Nikola Tesla.
She proved my point by asking 'who?
' I said Tesla, the guy Edison stole many of his inventions from and the father of AC power without which we couldn't have our nationwide power system.
I start to explain why AC facilitates high voltage power lines (transformers) and why HVPLs are important (low power loss per distance) she stopped me and said don't explain it too me.And she wonders why I can't remember everything she says.
While basically telling me tldl (listen).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317160</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>Errol backfiring</author>
	<datestamp>1267462800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Doesn't help. I had a user who claimed that "the program hung". When I asked if he had got an error message, he said NO. The logs, however, showed that he clicked 12 error messages away in the past minute. So the user's reply to a wait timer is also "it's hanging, you fix!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't help .
I had a user who claimed that " the program hung " .
When I asked if he had got an error message , he said NO .
The logs , however , showed that he clicked 12 error messages away in the past minute .
So the user 's reply to a wait timer is also " it 's hanging , you fix !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't help.
I had a user who claimed that "the program hung".
When I asked if he had got an error message, he said NO.
The logs, however, showed that he clicked 12 error messages away in the past minute.
So the user's reply to a wait timer is also "it's hanging, you fix!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31326216</id>
	<title>Do not pander to ignorance.</title>
	<author>RFguy</author>
	<datestamp>1267462980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Society should be expected to keep up with current terminology and technology.
I don't think we should pander to them by making it stupidly simple.
Although the idea of an error message opening the lolcatz page is hilarious/
"Do you see cute kittens with terrible grammar"
"yes, ooozy boozy kwittens"
"Ok your problem is x"

Idiocracy here we come.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Society should be expected to keep up with current terminology and technology .
I do n't think we should pander to them by making it stupidly simple .
Although the idea of an error message opening the lolcatz page is hilarious/ " Do you see cute kittens with terrible grammar " " yes , ooozy boozy kwittens " " Ok your problem is x " Idiocracy here we come .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Society should be expected to keep up with current terminology and technology.
I don't think we should pander to them by making it stupidly simple.
Although the idea of an error message opening the lolcatz page is hilarious/
"Do you see cute kittens with terrible grammar"
"yes, ooozy boozy kwittens"
"Ok your problem is x"

Idiocracy here we come.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31326066</id>
	<title>Basic user here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A someone who is just barely more informed about computers than his fellows, I know that seeing an error message with a lot of numbers and "technobabble" words just causes me to space it all out.  A simple code such as you suggest would be VERY helpful in allowing me to note and report the error message.</p><p>One thought:  you might want to avoid using actual colors in case any of your people are color blind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A someone who is just barely more informed about computers than his fellows , I know that seeing an error message with a lot of numbers and " technobabble " words just causes me to space it all out .
A simple code such as you suggest would be VERY helpful in allowing me to note and report the error message.One thought : you might want to avoid using actual colors in case any of your people are color blind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A someone who is just barely more informed about computers than his fellows, I know that seeing an error message with a lot of numbers and "technobabble" words just causes me to space it all out.
A simple code such as you suggest would be VERY helpful in allowing me to note and report the error message.One thought:  you might want to avoid using actual colors in case any of your people are color blind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321154</id>
	<title>On stackoverflow...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267434900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The question was also asked on stackoverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2356698/how-to-get-users-to-read-error-messages with some interesting comments over there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question was also asked on stackoverflow : http : //stackoverflow.com/questions/2356698/how-to-get-users-to-read-error-messages with some interesting comments over there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question was also asked on stackoverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2356698/how-to-get-users-to-read-error-messages with some interesting comments over there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317064</id>
	<title>TL;DR</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Please note this error number: #1234.  You will need it if you contact technical support.</p><p>The program was unable to update the application preferences file. That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).</p><p>File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.</p><p>You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved.  If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes.  If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.</p><p>[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]</p></div></div><p>tl,dr</p><p>Seriously. You might  as well make "Ignore error" the default.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Please note this error number : # 1234 .
You will need it if you contact technical support.The program was unable to update the application preferences file .
That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed ( choose " More Information " for details ) .File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes ; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time ; or when the computer 's file system is damaged.You can check for these kinds of problems ( chose " More help " for instructions ) then choose " Retry " to see if the problem is solved .
If you choose " Ignore Error " the program will continue without saving any preference changes .
If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings , permissions and integrity of your filesystem .
[ More information ] [ Retry ] [ Ignore Error ] tl,drSeriously .
You might as well make " Ignore error " the default .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please note this error number: #1234.
You will need it if you contact technical support.The program was unable to update the application preferences file.
That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved.
If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes.
If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.
[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]tl,drSeriously.
You might  as well make "Ignore error" the default.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31331220</id>
	<title>Re:FTFY</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267551660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has already been done.  The software is called Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has already been done .
The software is called Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has already been done.
The software is called Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</id>
	<title>Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>snspdaarf</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have been wondering about this for 30 years. End users are not interested in learning how the computer software works, except for how it lets them do their job. On-screen messages, manuals, fax-back systems, wiki pages, they don't care. What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do. At first, I thought it was them being lazy. However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task. The user has a mental model built up of their task, and they don't want to risk losing it while they search for information on an error. Making a phone call, and having someone else walk them through the problem solving means they can maintain their task in "main memory". For them, it is more efficient.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been wondering about this for 30 years .
End users are not interested in learning how the computer software works , except for how it lets them do their job .
On-screen messages , manuals , fax-back systems , wiki pages , they do n't care .
What they want is to pick up the phone , make a call , and have someone tell them what to do .
At first , I thought it was them being lazy .
However , I now think it is closer to why programmers do n't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task .
The user has a mental model built up of their task , and they do n't want to risk losing it while they search for information on an error .
Making a phone call , and having someone else walk them through the problem solving means they can maintain their task in " main memory " .
For them , it is more efficient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been wondering about this for 30 years.
End users are not interested in learning how the computer software works, except for how it lets them do their job.
On-screen messages, manuals, fax-back systems, wiki pages, they don't care.
What they want is to pick up the phone, make a call, and have someone tell them what to do.
At first, I thought it was them being lazy.
However, I now think it is closer to why programmers don't like to be interrupted in the middle of a task.
The user has a mental model built up of their task, and they don't want to risk losing it while they search for information on an error.
Making a phone call, and having someone else walk them through the problem solving means they can maintain their task in "main memory".
For them, it is more efficient.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</id>
	<title>Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1267459020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Q: How do you get users to read error messages?</p><p>A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?</p><p>Commentary: Users do not read error messages because they are mystified by them. To mystify them <em>willfully</em> only increases their resistance.</p><p>The first job is to create error messages that actually help the user. Users are conditioned by the generally crappy state of error messages to ignore them.  If you provide helpful error messages then the users that *can* be helped can be trained to read them.  It's operant conditioning -- like giving a rat a food pellet for successfully navigating a maze.</p><p>The very first thing you should do with error messages is pull them all together into some kind of document.  This document should have (1) an unambiguous ID for the error; (2) a description of *what* happened ; (2) a description or at least a guess for *why* it happened; (3a) the impact of the error on the user (3b) how the user can recover from the error; (3c) what the programmer can do to avoid this; (4) what the user needs to do in the future.</p><p>Note that 3b also implies that *you* should consider how the program is apt to behave after the error message is displayed so you can offer the user sensible choices.  For example, if the program fails to write the application preferences file on exiting, it makes sense to give the user both retry and cancel options, rather than sending him into a pointless loop that requires him to shoot the process down.</p><p>Then you write an error message that tells the user roughly what happened, what the impact on him may be, what he needs to do to get out of the corner he's painted himself into, and what he can do in the future.  This should always include an unique message identifier for your use.</p><p>Example:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Please note this error number: #1234.  You will need it if you contact technical support.</p><p>The program was unable to update the application preferences file. That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).</p><p>File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.</p><p>You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved.  If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes.  If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.</p><p>[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]</p></div><p>Now if this sounds like a pain in the ass, it *is*.   But it's a much better approach than trying to trick users into reading a piece-of-shit error message like "File operation failed" for a condition like that described.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Q : How do you get users to read error messages ? A : How do you write error messages that are worth reading ? Commentary : Users do not read error messages because they are mystified by them .
To mystify them willfully only increases their resistance.The first job is to create error messages that actually help the user .
Users are conditioned by the generally crappy state of error messages to ignore them .
If you provide helpful error messages then the users that * can * be helped can be trained to read them .
It 's operant conditioning -- like giving a rat a food pellet for successfully navigating a maze.The very first thing you should do with error messages is pull them all together into some kind of document .
This document should have ( 1 ) an unambiguous ID for the error ; ( 2 ) a description of * what * happened ; ( 2 ) a description or at least a guess for * why * it happened ; ( 3a ) the impact of the error on the user ( 3b ) how the user can recover from the error ; ( 3c ) what the programmer can do to avoid this ; ( 4 ) what the user needs to do in the future.Note that 3b also implies that * you * should consider how the program is apt to behave after the error message is displayed so you can offer the user sensible choices .
For example , if the program fails to write the application preferences file on exiting , it makes sense to give the user both retry and cancel options , rather than sending him into a pointless loop that requires him to shoot the process down.Then you write an error message that tells the user roughly what happened , what the impact on him may be , what he needs to do to get out of the corner he 's painted himself into , and what he can do in the future .
This should always include an unique message identifier for your use.Example : Please note this error number : # 1234 .
You will need it if you contact technical support.The program was unable to update the application preferences file .
That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed ( choose " More Information " for details ) .File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes ; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time ; or when the computer 's file system is damaged.You can check for these kinds of problems ( chose " More help " for instructions ) then choose " Retry " to see if the problem is solved .
If you choose " Ignore Error " the program will continue without saving any preference changes .
If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings , permissions and integrity of your filesystem .
[ More information ] [ Retry ] [ Ignore Error ] Now if this sounds like a pain in the ass , it * is * .
But it 's a much better approach than trying to trick users into reading a piece-of-shit error message like " File operation failed " for a condition like that described .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Q: How do you get users to read error messages?A: How do you write error messages that are worth reading?Commentary: Users do not read error messages because they are mystified by them.
To mystify them willfully only increases their resistance.The first job is to create error messages that actually help the user.
Users are conditioned by the generally crappy state of error messages to ignore them.
If you provide helpful error messages then the users that *can* be helped can be trained to read them.
It's operant conditioning -- like giving a rat a food pellet for successfully navigating a maze.The very first thing you should do with error messages is pull them all together into some kind of document.
This document should have (1) an unambiguous ID for the error; (2) a description of *what* happened ; (2) a description or at least a guess for *why* it happened; (3a) the impact of the error on the user (3b) how the user can recover from the error; (3c) what the programmer can do to avoid this; (4) what the user needs to do in the future.Note that 3b also implies that *you* should consider how the program is apt to behave after the error message is displayed so you can offer the user sensible choices.
For example, if the program fails to write the application preferences file on exiting, it makes sense to give the user both retry and cancel options, rather than sending him into a pointless loop that requires him to shoot the process down.Then you write an error message that tells the user roughly what happened, what the impact on him may be, what he needs to do to get out of the corner he's painted himself into, and what he can do in the future.
This should always include an unique message identifier for your use.Example:Please note this error number: #1234.
You will need it if you contact technical support.The program was unable to update the application preferences file.
That is the file that stores the settings you have chosen for things like preferred document styles and last document viewed (choose "More Information" for details).File updates can fail when the security permissions on the preferences file or directory ave been set to prevent changes; when more than one program is editing the preferences file at the same time; or when the computer's file system is damaged.You can check for these kinds of problems (chose "More help" for instructions) then choose "Retry" to see if the problem is solved.
If you choose "Ignore Error" the program will continue without saving any preference changes.
If this error persists it is recommended that you check the security settings, permissions and integrity of your filesystem.
[More information] [Retry] [Ignore Error]Now if this sounds like a pain in the ass, it *is*.
But it's a much better approach than trying to trick users into reading a piece-of-shit error message like "File operation failed" for a condition like that described.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317580</id>
	<title>Reboot then re-image</title>
	<author>friedpo</author>
	<datestamp>1267464420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I trained all of my users to do screenshots when possible, because if they don't, the machine gets re-imaged. It's kind of like a shock collar for a dog.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I trained all of my users to do screenshots when possible , because if they do n't , the machine gets re-imaged .
It 's kind of like a shock collar for a dog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I trained all of my users to do screenshots when possible, because if they don't, the machine gets re-imaged.
It's kind of like a shock collar for a dog.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319200</id>
	<title>In vs, u can...</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1267470600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the messagebox, you are able to associate an icon picture to the message, and also in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net that has been drastically been advanced.<br>I agree that a puppy picture for some users would signal a more recognizable error message, however, going through the whole catalogue of the animal kingdom, I do not find enough species to cover all possible errors I could propagate in a software app.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the messagebox , you are able to associate an icon picture to the message , and also in .net that has been drastically been advanced.I agree that a puppy picture for some users would signal a more recognizable error message , however , going through the whole catalogue of the animal kingdom , I do not find enough species to cover all possible errors I could propagate in a software app .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the messagebox, you are able to associate an icon picture to the message, and also in .net that has been drastically been advanced.I agree that a puppy picture for some users would signal a more recognizable error message, however, going through the whole catalogue of the animal kingdom, I do not find enough species to cover all possible errors I could propagate in a software app.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320116</id>
	<title>Re:Dr. Zen's answer</title>
	<author>ericfitz</author>
	<datestamp>1267474020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The above message is the first one I saw on the entire post that is worth reading.  What the OP doesn't get is that he's asking the wrong question.</p><p>Your users aren't programmers.  They don't care about "General file i/o error reading drive 0".  WFT does that mean to your mom?</p><p>First, you need to think about AVOIDANCE.  You can't write to the file?  Couldn't you figure that out at the time the user opened the document, and tell the user unobtrusively that they can't edit?  For example, Microsoft Word attempts to detect whether a file is writable at open.  If not (for example, due to permissions or sharing), then Word will open the document in "Read-Only" mode and disable editing functionality.  You have to "save as" successfully before it will enable editing.</p><p>Next, all of your error messages must be actionable.  Users will forgive badly worded error messages that tell them how to fix the problem.  They will ignore error messages that don't tell them how to resolve the problem, and might even get annoyed if you keep "nagging" them.</p><p>Think about the error condition from the user's point of view.  Does your program's average user have any prayer of solving the problem themselves?  If not, then your action is "call support":   "Serious error #1234 has occurred.  Please contact EXAMPLECOMPANY tech support to resolve this error at 555-1212 or techsupport@example.com [Email] [Exit Program]"</p><p>If the user is likely to be able to solve the problem themself, then present them with instructions on how to do so:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Error #1234 has occurred.  You will need this code if you call tech support.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This error occurs when you put a coffee cup on your CD-ROM tray instead of the program CD.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To resolve this problem, please put the program CD into your CD-ROM drive and close the drive, then restart the program."</p><p>The user action is the key to getting your users to fix their own problems.  But be aware of who your user is, it's easy to present instructions which your users will be unable to complete:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Error 0xDEADBEEF occurred in module obtuse.c<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "This occurs because the memory value at location 0x80123456 should have been 0xA2, but was actually 0xA9.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "To fix this problem, please attach a software debugger such as GDB to this process and change the memory value to 0xA9.  Then modify initializememory.cfg to set the value correctly on startup.  The man page for initializememory.cfg can be found on www.somerandomdudessiteinlatinamerica.biz".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The above message is the first one I saw on the entire post that is worth reading .
What the OP does n't get is that he 's asking the wrong question.Your users are n't programmers .
They do n't care about " General file i/o error reading drive 0 " .
WFT does that mean to your mom ? First , you need to think about AVOIDANCE .
You ca n't write to the file ?
Could n't you figure that out at the time the user opened the document , and tell the user unobtrusively that they ca n't edit ?
For example , Microsoft Word attempts to detect whether a file is writable at open .
If not ( for example , due to permissions or sharing ) , then Word will open the document in " Read-Only " mode and disable editing functionality .
You have to " save as " successfully before it will enable editing.Next , all of your error messages must be actionable .
Users will forgive badly worded error messages that tell them how to fix the problem .
They will ignore error messages that do n't tell them how to resolve the problem , and might even get annoyed if you keep " nagging " them.Think about the error condition from the user 's point of view .
Does your program 's average user have any prayer of solving the problem themselves ?
If not , then your action is " call support " : " Serious error # 1234 has occurred .
Please contact EXAMPLECOMPANY tech support to resolve this error at 555-1212 or techsupport @ example.com [ Email ] [ Exit Program ] " If the user is likely to be able to solve the problem themself , then present them with instructions on how to do so :           " Error # 1234 has occurred .
You will need this code if you call tech support .
          This error occurs when you put a coffee cup on your CD-ROM tray instead of the program CD .
          To resolve this problem , please put the program CD into your CD-ROM drive and close the drive , then restart the program .
" The user action is the key to getting your users to fix their own problems .
But be aware of who your user is , it 's easy to present instructions which your users will be unable to complete :         " Error 0xDEADBEEF occurred in module obtuse.c         " This occurs because the memory value at location 0x80123456 should have been 0xA2 , but was actually 0xA9 .
        " To fix this problem , please attach a software debugger such as GDB to this process and change the memory value to 0xA9 .
Then modify initializememory.cfg to set the value correctly on startup .
The man page for initializememory.cfg can be found on www.somerandomdudessiteinlatinamerica.biz " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The above message is the first one I saw on the entire post that is worth reading.
What the OP doesn't get is that he's asking the wrong question.Your users aren't programmers.
They don't care about "General file i/o error reading drive 0".
WFT does that mean to your mom?First, you need to think about AVOIDANCE.
You can't write to the file?
Couldn't you figure that out at the time the user opened the document, and tell the user unobtrusively that they can't edit?
For example, Microsoft Word attempts to detect whether a file is writable at open.
If not (for example, due to permissions or sharing), then Word will open the document in "Read-Only" mode and disable editing functionality.
You have to "save as" successfully before it will enable editing.Next, all of your error messages must be actionable.
Users will forgive badly worded error messages that tell them how to fix the problem.
They will ignore error messages that don't tell them how to resolve the problem, and might even get annoyed if you keep "nagging" them.Think about the error condition from the user's point of view.
Does your program's average user have any prayer of solving the problem themselves?
If not, then your action is "call support":   "Serious error #1234 has occurred.
Please contact EXAMPLECOMPANY tech support to resolve this error at 555-1212 or techsupport@example.com [Email] [Exit Program]"If the user is likely to be able to solve the problem themself, then present them with instructions on how to do so:
          "Error #1234 has occurred.
You will need this code if you call tech support.
          This error occurs when you put a coffee cup on your CD-ROM tray instead of the program CD.
          To resolve this problem, please put the program CD into your CD-ROM drive and close the drive, then restart the program.
"The user action is the key to getting your users to fix their own problems.
But be aware of who your user is, it's easy to present instructions which your users will be unable to complete:
        "Error 0xDEADBEEF occurred in module obtuse.c
        "This occurs because the memory value at location 0x80123456 should have been 0xA2, but was actually 0xA9.
        "To fix this problem, please attach a software debugger such as GDB to this process and change the memory value to 0xA9.
Then modify initializememory.cfg to set the value correctly on startup.
The man page for initializememory.cfg can be found on www.somerandomdudessiteinlatinamerica.biz".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320436</id>
	<title>Shop floor interface</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1267475340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I developed one some years ago. After noticing that the users of the legacy app didn't, or couldn't[1] read the text error messages, I used a series of background colors for the new web app that indicated the general type of error and what should be done about it. The application itself was somewhat checklist based in that it would step the operator through the requisite procedures needed to remedy a situation. The colors, and some appropriate iconography[2] would indicate whether the operator was stepping through the normal operating path or handing an exception.
</p><p>[1] The original text-based app would present a cryptic error message to the operator along with our on-call pager number. All that was necessary was that the operator contact us and read the message back. Most fixes could then be handled remotely in a few minutes. One night, when I was on call, I received a message from a shop floor manager to the effect that the system was down and I needed to drive down and fix it. I asked him to read me the message on the screen with the idea that it might be something I could fix on line (sitting in my PJs) in a few minutes. At this point, he became quite irate, insisting that there was no message, other than the pager number and for me to get my ass down to the factory. An hour or so later (with production stopped), when I showed up, there was the message (fixable on line in about 5 minutes). But no manager in sight. When I asked one of the employees what the problem was with his boss reading the message to me  over the phone, he informed me that this guy was functionally illiterate. He could figure out the pager number to call me, but not read the text.
</p><p>[2]All error pages included an animated graphic of a character sitting at a screen/keyboard, repeatedly bashing his head on the keyboard. It became obvious to (even untrained) users that somehow, something was f*cked up and they were now in some sort of exception handling mode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I developed one some years ago .
After noticing that the users of the legacy app did n't , or could n't [ 1 ] read the text error messages , I used a series of background colors for the new web app that indicated the general type of error and what should be done about it .
The application itself was somewhat checklist based in that it would step the operator through the requisite procedures needed to remedy a situation .
The colors , and some appropriate iconography [ 2 ] would indicate whether the operator was stepping through the normal operating path or handing an exception .
[ 1 ] The original text-based app would present a cryptic error message to the operator along with our on-call pager number .
All that was necessary was that the operator contact us and read the message back .
Most fixes could then be handled remotely in a few minutes .
One night , when I was on call , I received a message from a shop floor manager to the effect that the system was down and I needed to drive down and fix it .
I asked him to read me the message on the screen with the idea that it might be something I could fix on line ( sitting in my PJs ) in a few minutes .
At this point , he became quite irate , insisting that there was no message , other than the pager number and for me to get my ass down to the factory .
An hour or so later ( with production stopped ) , when I showed up , there was the message ( fixable on line in about 5 minutes ) .
But no manager in sight .
When I asked one of the employees what the problem was with his boss reading the message to me over the phone , he informed me that this guy was functionally illiterate .
He could figure out the pager number to call me , but not read the text .
[ 2 ] All error pages included an animated graphic of a character sitting at a screen/keyboard , repeatedly bashing his head on the keyboard .
It became obvious to ( even untrained ) users that somehow , something was f * cked up and they were now in some sort of exception handling mode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I developed one some years ago.
After noticing that the users of the legacy app didn't, or couldn't[1] read the text error messages, I used a series of background colors for the new web app that indicated the general type of error and what should be done about it.
The application itself was somewhat checklist based in that it would step the operator through the requisite procedures needed to remedy a situation.
The colors, and some appropriate iconography[2] would indicate whether the operator was stepping through the normal operating path or handing an exception.
[1] The original text-based app would present a cryptic error message to the operator along with our on-call pager number.
All that was necessary was that the operator contact us and read the message back.
Most fixes could then be handled remotely in a few minutes.
One night, when I was on call, I received a message from a shop floor manager to the effect that the system was down and I needed to drive down and fix it.
I asked him to read me the message on the screen with the idea that it might be something I could fix on line (sitting in my PJs) in a few minutes.
At this point, he became quite irate, insisting that there was no message, other than the pager number and for me to get my ass down to the factory.
An hour or so later (with production stopped), when I showed up, there was the message (fixable on line in about 5 minutes).
But no manager in sight.
When I asked one of the employees what the problem was with his boss reading the message to me  over the phone, he informed me that this guy was functionally illiterate.
He could figure out the pager number to call me, but not read the text.
[2]All error pages included an animated graphic of a character sitting at a screen/keyboard, repeatedly bashing his head on the keyboard.
It became obvious to (even untrained) users that somehow, something was f*cked up and they were now in some sort of exception handling mode.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318468</id>
	<title>Nothing.</title>
	<author>Yaos</author>
	<datestamp>1267467660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is nothing you can do, you could be standing next to them telling them exactly what to click on while guiding their hand and they still would be unable to follow any directions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is nothing you can do , you could be standing next to them telling them exactly what to click on while guiding their hand and they still would be unable to follow any directions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is nothing you can do, you could be standing next to them telling them exactly what to click on while guiding their hand and they still would be unable to follow any directions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315898</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We could be their pets.  We'd get to eat and sleep most of the day.  Get a new toy every now and then.  Walked daily, when we can bark at the other humans.  Plus we could lick our own balls whenever we want.</p><p>Sounds awesome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We could be their pets .
We 'd get to eat and sleep most of the day .
Get a new toy every now and then .
Walked daily , when we can bark at the other humans .
Plus we could lick our own balls whenever we want.Sounds awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We could be their pets.
We'd get to eat and sleep most of the day.
Get a new toy every now and then.
Walked daily, when we can bark at the other humans.
Plus we could lick our own balls whenever we want.Sounds awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316530</id>
	<title>Not such a bad idea but...</title>
	<author>gravis777</author>
	<datestamp>1267460520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couple of things. In my experience, if its a single error, that pops up fairly frequently and the user can reproduce it, they will give you the error message. If not, then you can follow their steps to reproduce the error message. If they can't remember the error, can't get it to pop up, then tell the user that you are not creating a ticket at that time, and for them to call back when the error appears, and then you can remote assist them.</p><p>If users are rapidly clicking through error messages, then either something such as your login script is generating errors on their computer, or they got spyware.</p><p>In the end of the day, I think creating custom error messages is going to be more trouble than its worth - just play some tough love and mention that you cannot help them if they cannot tell you what the problem is. This may frustrate them at first, but it won't take long at all before attitude changes. Otherwise, they are wasting their time and yours while you "investigate the situation".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Couple of things .
In my experience , if its a single error , that pops up fairly frequently and the user can reproduce it , they will give you the error message .
If not , then you can follow their steps to reproduce the error message .
If they ca n't remember the error , ca n't get it to pop up , then tell the user that you are not creating a ticket at that time , and for them to call back when the error appears , and then you can remote assist them.If users are rapidly clicking through error messages , then either something such as your login script is generating errors on their computer , or they got spyware.In the end of the day , I think creating custom error messages is going to be more trouble than its worth - just play some tough love and mention that you can not help them if they can not tell you what the problem is .
This may frustrate them at first , but it wo n't take long at all before attitude changes .
Otherwise , they are wasting their time and yours while you " investigate the situation " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couple of things.
In my experience, if its a single error, that pops up fairly frequently and the user can reproduce it, they will give you the error message.
If not, then you can follow their steps to reproduce the error message.
If they can't remember the error, can't get it to pop up, then tell the user that you are not creating a ticket at that time, and for them to call back when the error appears, and then you can remote assist them.If users are rapidly clicking through error messages, then either something such as your login script is generating errors on their computer, or they got spyware.In the end of the day, I think creating custom error messages is going to be more trouble than its worth - just play some tough love and mention that you cannot help them if they cannot tell you what the problem is.
This may frustrate them at first, but it won't take long at all before attitude changes.
Otherwise, they are wasting their time and yours while you "investigate the situation".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318556</id>
	<title>Dancing Pigs / Bunnies</title>
	<author>Halotron1</author>
	<datestamp>1267467900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like a variant of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing\_pigs" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">dancing pigs problem</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>They will completely ignore every error message and try to find a way to get what they want.</p><p>I try to keep the error messages as simple as possible, and then have the system email out an error message.<br>If your company isn't gigantic it can work well, then when you get a call just check the email to see what the full message was.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a variant of the dancing pigs problem [ wikipedia.org ] They will completely ignore every error message and try to find a way to get what they want.I try to keep the error messages as simple as possible , and then have the system email out an error message.If your company is n't gigantic it can work well , then when you get a call just check the email to see what the full message was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a variant of the dancing pigs problem [wikipedia.org]They will completely ignore every error message and try to find a way to get what they want.I try to keep the error messages as simple as possible, and then have the system email out an error message.If your company isn't gigantic it can work well, then when you get a call just check the email to see what the full message was.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317666</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, speaking through my experience in help desk support, I assume that users do not tell you about the error messages in the screen because they "think" if don't tell you, then you'll "run" to help him... I mean, they think that if they tell you "my computer is doing something weird and there is NO ERROR MESSAGE" you'll prioritize his/her case and go immediately to solve it.</p><p>I'm working in another department now, I quit from help desk hahaha... and these guys here do that, they lie to help desk in order to have them solve the problem faster.</p><p>hope this helps!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , speaking through my experience in help desk support , I assume that users do not tell you about the error messages in the screen because they " think " if do n't tell you , then you 'll " run " to help him... I mean , they think that if they tell you " my computer is doing something weird and there is NO ERROR MESSAGE " you 'll prioritize his/her case and go immediately to solve it.I 'm working in another department now , I quit from help desk hahaha... and these guys here do that , they lie to help desk in order to have them solve the problem faster.hope this helps !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, speaking through my experience in help desk support, I assume that users do not tell you about the error messages in the screen because they "think" if don't tell you, then you'll "run" to help him... I mean, they think that if they tell you "my computer is doing something weird and there is NO ERROR MESSAGE" you'll prioritize his/her case and go immediately to solve it.I'm working in another department now, I quit from help desk hahaha... and these guys here do that, they lie to help desk in order to have them solve the problem faster.hope this helps!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p></div><p>So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in?  Or when the network resource it requires is not available?  Shuffle its feet and hem and haw and hope the user won't notice?</p><p>Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing.  That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me) but let me ask you:  when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard?  No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?</p><p>Never, right?  That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users.  We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire."</p><p>On another note, I like the ball-kicking idea, but my users are mostly female, so it won't work.  Recently I've had a bunch of complaints about missing hardware because they are clicking through the dialog that detects that hardware is missing, and then complaining when the main UI comes up and tells them there is no hardware connected.  They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up, a phenomenon that has gotten much worse in the past few years.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in ?
Or when the network resource it requires is not available ?
Shuffle its feet and hem and haw and hope the user wo n't notice ? Anyone who says " there should be no errors " does n't know how the word " error " is used in computing .
That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal ( at least that 's what my functional programmer friends tell me ) but let me ask you : when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard ?
No idiot lights , no oil pressure gauge , no fuel gauge , nothing but a speedometer ? Never , right ?
That 's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements , and we need to communicate that state to users .
We call those communications " error messages " in the software world , and they cover everything from " out of memory " to " printer on fire .
" On another note , I like the ball-kicking idea , but my users are mostly female , so it wo n't work .
Recently I 've had a bunch of complaints about missing hardware because they are clicking through the dialog that detects that hardware is missing , and then complaining when the main UI comes up and tells them there is no hardware connected .
They never remember they 've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up , a phenomenon that has gotten much worse in the past few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in?
Or when the network resource it requires is not available?
Shuffle its feet and hem and haw and hope the user won't notice?Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing.
That there should be no BUGS may be a formally realizable goal (at least that's what my functional programmer friends tell me) but let me ask you:  when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard?
No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?Never, right?
That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users.
We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire.
"On another note, I like the ball-kicking idea, but my users are mostly female, so it won't work.
Recently I've had a bunch of complaints about missing hardware because they are clicking through the dialog that detects that hardware is missing, and then complaining when the main UI comes up and tells them there is no hardware connected.
They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up, a phenomenon that has gotten much worse in the past few years.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316068</id>
	<title>Don't make software with error messages.</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1267458900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try to make the UI in a way where it is difficult or near impossible for them to make user level errors which would popup an error message... And save error messages for things such as bad or corrupted install or lack of network connection (when the application is actually broken)</p><p>Giving Users error messages will only give you headaches.   As they will give you wrong messages, or not at all, or panic when they get one. Go with logging if the problem is persistent then quit the app.  Yes it takes more work... However if you though of the condition that could create an error message if you put a bit more though you may be able to get the UI so it doen't need to give an error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try to make the UI in a way where it is difficult or near impossible for them to make user level errors which would popup an error message... And save error messages for things such as bad or corrupted install or lack of network connection ( when the application is actually broken ) Giving Users error messages will only give you headaches .
As they will give you wrong messages , or not at all , or panic when they get one .
Go with logging if the problem is persistent then quit the app .
Yes it takes more work... However if you though of the condition that could create an error message if you put a bit more though you may be able to get the UI so it doe n't need to give an error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try to make the UI in a way where it is difficult or near impossible for them to make user level errors which would popup an error message... And save error messages for things such as bad or corrupted install or lack of network connection (when the application is actually broken)Giving Users error messages will only give you headaches.
As they will give you wrong messages, or not at all, or panic when they get one.
Go with logging if the problem is persistent then quit the app.
Yes it takes more work... However if you though of the condition that could create an error message if you put a bit more though you may be able to get the UI so it doen't need to give an error.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315712</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see you've never dealt with software that interacted with other software, or networks, or external services, or external drives that might be disconnected...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see you 've never dealt with software that interacted with other software , or networks , or external services , or external drives that might be disconnected.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see you've never dealt with software that interacted with other software, or networks, or external services, or external drives that might be disconnected...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315762</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Jenming</author>
	<datestamp>1267457940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not really sure what you accomplish by disabling the software for 15 minutes. It sounds to me that if the person ignores your error message they get a 15 minute break.</p><p>One thing IT people often forget is that their job is to make the other employee's jobs easier and more productive. This means solving problems without getting in the way of the work that actually makes the company money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not really sure what you accomplish by disabling the software for 15 minutes .
It sounds to me that if the person ignores your error message they get a 15 minute break.One thing IT people often forget is that their job is to make the other employee 's jobs easier and more productive .
This means solving problems without getting in the way of the work that actually makes the company money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not really sure what you accomplish by disabling the software for 15 minutes.
It sounds to me that if the person ignores your error message they get a 15 minute break.One thing IT people often forget is that their job is to make the other employee's jobs easier and more productive.
This means solving problems without getting in the way of the work that actually makes the company money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315296</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316198</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>iangoldby</author>
	<datestamp>1267459320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a support call once where the customer was 'interpreting' the error message I needed to know about. It wasn't exactly a long message - just one short line, but I didn't recognise the message from what he was telling me. Even when I asked him to read it to me verbatim, he still insisted on 'interpreting' it. Eventually I was reduced to asking him to spell it out to me. He clearly thought I was an imbercile, but I finally found out what was on the screen in front of him. It was nothing even remotely related to what he had been telling me; suddenly everything made sense and I immediately had all of the information I needed to provide a fix.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a support call once where the customer was 'interpreting ' the error message I needed to know about .
It was n't exactly a long message - just one short line , but I did n't recognise the message from what he was telling me .
Even when I asked him to read it to me verbatim , he still insisted on 'interpreting ' it .
Eventually I was reduced to asking him to spell it out to me .
He clearly thought I was an imbercile , but I finally found out what was on the screen in front of him .
It was nothing even remotely related to what he had been telling me ; suddenly everything made sense and I immediately had all of the information I needed to provide a fix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a support call once where the customer was 'interpreting' the error message I needed to know about.
It wasn't exactly a long message - just one short line, but I didn't recognise the message from what he was telling me.
Even when I asked him to read it to me verbatim, he still insisted on 'interpreting' it.
Eventually I was reduced to asking him to spell it out to me.
He clearly thought I was an imbercile, but I finally found out what was on the screen in front of him.
It was nothing even remotely related to what he had been telling me; suddenly everything made sense and I immediately had all of the information I needed to provide a fix.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315682</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>Geoffrey.landis</author>
	<datestamp>1267457640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You were walking the user through the process , and you never asked them what 's on the screen ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315410</id>
	<title>FTFY</title>
	<author>jalefkowit</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dear Slashdot,</p><p>I am filled with a black, unutterable contempt for the troglodytic users of my application. Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dear Slashdot,I am filled with a black , unutterable contempt for the troglodytic users of my application .
Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dear Slashdot,I am filled with a black, unutterable contempt for the troglodytic users of my application.
Can you suggest ways to translate this contempt into software?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316264</id>
	<title>Don't use "OK/Cancel"</title>
	<author>mfnickster</author>
	<datestamp>1267459500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As many others have pointed out, users have become conditioned to just click "OK" to proceed, even when that's not the best course of action.</p><p>Put buttons on the dialog that make the user think about the answer:</p><p>"I agree/Disagree"<br>"Save in this directory/Choose another location"<br>"Cancel import/Search for file"<br>"Continue with errors/Ignore bad data"</p><p>Of course, this assumes you have some control over the messages. If you're trying to get them to read messages from some third party, well...make it more painful when they don't!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As many others have pointed out , users have become conditioned to just click " OK " to proceed , even when that 's not the best course of action.Put buttons on the dialog that make the user think about the answer : " I agree/Disagree " " Save in this directory/Choose another location " " Cancel import/Search for file " " Continue with errors/Ignore bad data " Of course , this assumes you have some control over the messages .
If you 're trying to get them to read messages from some third party , well...make it more painful when they do n't !
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many others have pointed out, users have become conditioned to just click "OK" to proceed, even when that's not the best course of action.Put buttons on the dialog that make the user think about the answer:"I agree/Disagree""Save in this directory/Choose another location""Cancel import/Search for file""Continue with errors/Ignore bad data"Of course, this assumes you have some control over the messages.
If you're trying to get them to read messages from some third party, well...make it more painful when they don't!
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315574</id>
	<title>Make error messages that are useful</title>
	<author>Geoffrey.landis</author>
	<datestamp>1267457280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Number one answer would be to make error messages that are actually useful.</p><p>Here's an error I got recently.  It's a pretty common error in our SAP* system: "Error Code: -1 Error Desciption: Code: K/101.  Error occurred in derivation rule.  See long text."  (Please note that there <i>is</i> no long text.)</p><p>Here's another recent error message I encountered.  Is this helpful?<br><i>You have either entered an invalid Member ID, an invalid PIN, or your User Account is locked.  Please validate that you are entering the correct member ID and PIN and try to log in again. "</i><br>Translation: when you did the mandatory password change (required every 90 days), you entered a password that contained the } character.  Although the rules say you must include symbol characters, we didn't mean <i>that</i> symbol character.</p><p>And dozens of other equally useless ones.</p><p>--<br>*"SAP" is not actually an acronym.  It is the word used to describe the customers who have been persuaded to buy this software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Number one answer would be to make error messages that are actually useful.Here 's an error I got recently .
It 's a pretty common error in our SAP * system : " Error Code : -1 Error Desciption : Code : K/101 .
Error occurred in derivation rule .
See long text .
" ( Please note that there is no long text .
) Here 's another recent error message I encountered .
Is this helpful ? You have either entered an invalid Member ID , an invalid PIN , or your User Account is locked .
Please validate that you are entering the correct member ID and PIN and try to log in again .
" Translation : when you did the mandatory password change ( required every 90 days ) , you entered a password that contained the } character .
Although the rules say you must include symbol characters , we did n't mean that symbol character.And dozens of other equally useless ones.-- * " SAP " is not actually an acronym .
It is the word used to describe the customers who have been persuaded to buy this software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Number one answer would be to make error messages that are actually useful.Here's an error I got recently.
It's a pretty common error in our SAP* system: "Error Code: -1 Error Desciption: Code: K/101.
Error occurred in derivation rule.
See long text.
"  (Please note that there is no long text.
)Here's another recent error message I encountered.
Is this helpful?You have either entered an invalid Member ID, an invalid PIN, or your User Account is locked.
Please validate that you are entering the correct member ID and PIN and try to log in again.
"Translation: when you did the mandatory password change (required every 90 days), you entered a password that contained the } character.
Although the rules say you must include symbol characters, we didn't mean that symbol character.And dozens of other equally useless ones.--*"SAP" is not actually an acronym.
It is the word used to describe the customers who have been persuaded to buy this software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31326240</id>
	<title>One of my experiences</title>
	<author>QuestorTapes</author>
	<datestamp>1267463220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Application from hell. Client was almost ready to accept delivery of an application from another firm. Application was to distribute procedure documents created by central office.</p><p>Client forgot to develop and application to generate the procedure documents.</p><p>We had to slap together a tool to do this in less than 1/100 the time used to design the original application.</p><p>Did I mention it needed to support rich text, linked documents incremental translation and editing for the overseas offices?</p><p>Duct taped together several programs (Word, Access, Excel, others), users had to follow instructions and prompts. But, users don't -read- instructions or prompts.</p><p>One guy on my team wrote a custom messagebox. Anywhere any code called Windows MessageBox, it logged to a flat file:</p><p>
&nbsp; - the calling function and context<br>
&nbsp; - the exact title of the message<br>
&nbsp; - the exact text of the message body<br>
&nbsp; - the exact selection the user made</p><p>Tech support could view the flat file, read backwards, and see exactly what the user did, then walk them through doing it correctly.</p><p>Still a pain, but a manageable one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Application from hell .
Client was almost ready to accept delivery of an application from another firm .
Application was to distribute procedure documents created by central office.Client forgot to develop and application to generate the procedure documents.We had to slap together a tool to do this in less than 1/100 the time used to design the original application.Did I mention it needed to support rich text , linked documents incremental translation and editing for the overseas offices ? Duct taped together several programs ( Word , Access , Excel , others ) , users had to follow instructions and prompts .
But , users do n't -read- instructions or prompts.One guy on my team wrote a custom messagebox .
Anywhere any code called Windows MessageBox , it logged to a flat file :   - the calling function and context   - the exact title of the message   - the exact text of the message body   - the exact selection the user madeTech support could view the flat file , read backwards , and see exactly what the user did , then walk them through doing it correctly.Still a pain , but a manageable one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Application from hell.
Client was almost ready to accept delivery of an application from another firm.
Application was to distribute procedure documents created by central office.Client forgot to develop and application to generate the procedure documents.We had to slap together a tool to do this in less than 1/100 the time used to design the original application.Did I mention it needed to support rich text, linked documents incremental translation and editing for the overseas offices?Duct taped together several programs (Word, Access, Excel, others), users had to follow instructions and prompts.
But, users don't -read- instructions or prompts.One guy on my team wrote a custom messagebox.
Anywhere any code called Windows MessageBox, it logged to a flat file:
  - the calling function and context
  - the exact title of the message
  - the exact text of the message body
  - the exact selection the user madeTech support could view the flat file, read backwards, and see exactly what the user did, then walk them through doing it correctly.Still a pain, but a manageable one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315666</id>
	<title>Sweets!</title>
	<author>Hauke</author>
	<datestamp>1267457580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found, that promising sweets, say a tiny pack of gummibears, for any new error, that has not been seen before motivated everyone.<br>Simply ask them to make screenshots to prove that it is a new error and you are of.</p><p>Think about it. Finding Bugs this way makes fun and is totally worth the packet of sweets.<br>This really works!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found , that promising sweets , say a tiny pack of gummibears , for any new error , that has not been seen before motivated everyone.Simply ask them to make screenshots to prove that it is a new error and you are of.Think about it .
Finding Bugs this way makes fun and is totally worth the packet of sweets.This really works !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found, that promising sweets, say a tiny pack of gummibears, for any new error, that has not been seen before motivated everyone.Simply ask them to make screenshots to prove that it is a new error and you are of.Think about it.
Finding Bugs this way makes fun and is totally worth the packet of sweets.This really works!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318070</id>
	<title>Re:Explaining error messges is what support is for</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1267466280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you. I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself."</p></div></blockquote><p>Someone bumps your car and damages it, then drives off.  You call the cops and they ask you for the make, color and license plate.</p><p>Does that constitute expecting you to catch the criminal yourself?</p><p>I don't give a rat's ass how much you're paying for a support contract - it doesn't come bundled with magic, and you only get telepathy on the super gold plus plan.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have any problems that do n't fix themselves in under five minutes , I 'm going to pick up the phone and call you .
I 'm paying you to support me if I have trouble , I should n't have to troubleshoot it myself .
" Someone bumps your car and damages it , then drives off .
You call the cops and they ask you for the make , color and license plate.Does that constitute expecting you to catch the criminal yourself ? I do n't give a rat 's ass how much you 're paying for a support contract - it does n't come bundled with magic , and you only get telepathy on the super gold plus plan .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have any problems that don't fix themselves in under five minutes, I'm going to pick up the phone and call you.
I'm paying you to support me if I have trouble, I shouldn't have to troubleshoot it myself.
"Someone bumps your car and damages it, then drives off.
You call the cops and they ask you for the make, color and license plate.Does that constitute expecting you to catch the criminal yourself?I don't give a rat's ass how much you're paying for a support contract - it doesn't come bundled with magic, and you only get telepathy on the super gold plus plan.
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316878</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Xugumad</author>
	<datestamp>1267461840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We don't have issues with users reading or not reading internal error messages. We display a summary just in case, but generally what the user sees amounts to "It broke. E-mail us".</p><p>However, we do need users to read messages about input validation. For example, a user recently called us to say they couldn't rename something (to the same name as something at already existed, where names are required to be unique), and why was there a yellow box at the top of their screen (the warning message about the name collision). Or about access issues (we made the mistake of making user homepages unique URLs, and spend 6 months with users trying to log into each other's homepages and then complaining, despite the 256x256 home button in the middle of the error page, that it wouldn't let them see the page).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do n't have issues with users reading or not reading internal error messages .
We display a summary just in case , but generally what the user sees amounts to " It broke .
E-mail us " .However , we do need users to read messages about input validation .
For example , a user recently called us to say they could n't rename something ( to the same name as something at already existed , where names are required to be unique ) , and why was there a yellow box at the top of their screen ( the warning message about the name collision ) .
Or about access issues ( we made the mistake of making user homepages unique URLs , and spend 6 months with users trying to log into each other 's homepages and then complaining , despite the 256x256 home button in the middle of the error page , that it would n't let them see the page ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We don't have issues with users reading or not reading internal error messages.
We display a summary just in case, but generally what the user sees amounts to "It broke.
E-mail us".However, we do need users to read messages about input validation.
For example, a user recently called us to say they couldn't rename something (to the same name as something at already existed, where names are required to be unique), and why was there a yellow box at the top of their screen (the warning message about the name collision).
Or about access issues (we made the mistake of making user homepages unique URLs, and spend 6 months with users trying to log into each other's homepages and then complaining, despite the 256x256 home button in the middle of the error page, that it wouldn't let them see the page).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315872</id>
	<title>Good Name for a Rock Band</title>
	<author>jimbolauski</author>
	<datestamp>1267458360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unprovoked Genital Damage!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unprovoked Genital Damage !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unprovoked Genital Damage!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316702</id>
	<title>"Olfactory Feedback"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh man, olfactory feedback! I wonder what a UAC dialogue would smell like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh man , olfactory feedback !
I wonder what a UAC dialogue would smell like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh man, olfactory feedback!
I wonder what a UAC dialogue would smell like.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31324364</id>
	<title>Re:Not the users fault.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267448160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly - log all errors, let the user know there was a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly - log all errors , let the user know there was a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly - log all errors, let the user know there was a problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320036</id>
	<title>Do you even need the error messages?</title>
	<author>idontusenumbers</author>
	<datestamp>1267473660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most error messages can be dealt with programatically on the developer's side. If a file isn't found, maybe the program should try to find it. If there's a required text box, indicate so on the text box instead of alerting the user when they click the okay button, maybe even making the okay button disabled until text has been entered and (this is important) including a tool tip on the okay button indicating why it is disabled.

I've clicked past many dialog boxes without reading them and wished that I could 'undo' or 'go back' to see what they said again.

Try to replace the dialog with a better method of informing the user.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most error messages can be dealt with programatically on the developer 's side .
If a file is n't found , maybe the program should try to find it .
If there 's a required text box , indicate so on the text box instead of alerting the user when they click the okay button , maybe even making the okay button disabled until text has been entered and ( this is important ) including a tool tip on the okay button indicating why it is disabled .
I 've clicked past many dialog boxes without reading them and wished that I could 'undo ' or 'go back ' to see what they said again .
Try to replace the dialog with a better method of informing the user .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most error messages can be dealt with programatically on the developer's side.
If a file isn't found, maybe the program should try to find it.
If there's a required text box, indicate so on the text box instead of alerting the user when they click the okay button, maybe even making the okay button disabled until text has been entered and (this is important) including a tool tip on the okay button indicating why it is disabled.
I've clicked past many dialog boxes without reading them and wished that I could 'undo' or 'go back' to see what they said again.
Try to replace the dialog with a better method of informing the user.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317506</id>
	<title>Cluebat, AKA the LART</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1267464120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You need a policy along the lines that if you want it fixed, you provide the error message.  If people are too dim to copy-paste or make a screenshot then it's time to recycle them for pet food.</p><p>But you'll need buy-in from management to get anywhere with that, so good luck.  A particular red flag is if you start hearing emotive language like "well if you don't want to help...". - in that case get out while you can, before the whining retards gang up on you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You need a policy along the lines that if you want it fixed , you provide the error message .
If people are too dim to copy-paste or make a screenshot then it 's time to recycle them for pet food.But you 'll need buy-in from management to get anywhere with that , so good luck .
A particular red flag is if you start hearing emotive language like " well if you do n't want to help... " .
- in that case get out while you can , before the whining retards gang up on you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need a policy along the lines that if you want it fixed, you provide the error message.
If people are too dim to copy-paste or make a screenshot then it's time to recycle them for pet food.But you'll need buy-in from management to get anywhere with that, so good luck.
A particular red flag is if you start hearing emotive language like "well if you don't want to help...".
- in that case get out while you can, before the whining retards gang up on you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31395850</id>
	<title>Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef</title>
	<author>Geminii</author>
	<datestamp>1267971060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, the use of "Yes" "No" and "Cancel" should be BANNED from dialogue boxes. Make the buttons actually say what they are going to do.
</p><p>
[Yes, you are absolutely right!] [What? That's stupid!] [No comment] [More info, please]
</p><p>
Additionally, in a corporate environment, why not make in-house app errors load part of their text from an external database that the Helpdesk can modify? (For example, the error can have a short, unchanging alphanumeric code string as an index, followed by a 255-character field.) After all, it's the Helpdesk that the user will be calling 99\% of the time, so they've got the most invested in coming up with and tweaking text which will make the user NOT call them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , the use of " Yes " " No " and " Cancel " should be BANNED from dialogue boxes .
Make the buttons actually say what they are going to do .
[ Yes , you are absolutely right !
] [ What ?
That 's stupid !
] [ No comment ] [ More info , please ] Additionally , in a corporate environment , why not make in-house app errors load part of their text from an external database that the Helpdesk can modify ?
( For example , the error can have a short , unchanging alphanumeric code string as an index , followed by a 255-character field .
) After all , it 's the Helpdesk that the user will be calling 99 \ % of the time , so they 've got the most invested in coming up with and tweaking text which will make the user NOT call them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, the use of "Yes" "No" and "Cancel" should be BANNED from dialogue boxes.
Make the buttons actually say what they are going to do.
[Yes, you are absolutely right!
] [What?
That's stupid!
] [No comment] [More info, please]

Additionally, in a corporate environment, why not make in-house app errors load part of their text from an external database that the Helpdesk can modify?
(For example, the error can have a short, unchanging alphanumeric code string as an index, followed by a 255-character field.
) After all, it's the Helpdesk that the user will be calling 99\% of the time, so they've got the most invested in coming up with and tweaking text which will make the user NOT call them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31342782</id>
	<title>If users are ignoring your error messages...</title>
	<author>Kagetsuki</author>
	<datestamp>1267614840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If users are ignoring your error messages then you have too many error messages. Users train themselves to ignore error messages because they see the same errors or types of errors over and over. Particularly popup errors will annoy the crap out of the average user to the point that if any popup error shows up they'll just OK them out of frustration or spite. If the user didn't fill out a field that is necessary for example, DON'T pop up a message indicating they didn't fill out field X, instead turn the label of field X red or something like that. It's the difference between saying to a user "you forgot this" with a simple indication and getting up into their face and saying "you are an idiot" with an generic error message popup. The fact that you have users calling you so much because of error messages to begin with is concerning; that is indicative to me that your users are fighting with your software or it is not intuitive enough or it is buggy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If users are ignoring your error messages then you have too many error messages .
Users train themselves to ignore error messages because they see the same errors or types of errors over and over .
Particularly popup errors will annoy the crap out of the average user to the point that if any popup error shows up they 'll just OK them out of frustration or spite .
If the user did n't fill out a field that is necessary for example , DO N'T pop up a message indicating they did n't fill out field X , instead turn the label of field X red or something like that .
It 's the difference between saying to a user " you forgot this " with a simple indication and getting up into their face and saying " you are an idiot " with an generic error message popup .
The fact that you have users calling you so much because of error messages to begin with is concerning ; that is indicative to me that your users are fighting with your software or it is not intuitive enough or it is buggy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If users are ignoring your error messages then you have too many error messages.
Users train themselves to ignore error messages because they see the same errors or types of errors over and over.
Particularly popup errors will annoy the crap out of the average user to the point that if any popup error shows up they'll just OK them out of frustration or spite.
If the user didn't fill out a field that is necessary for example, DON'T pop up a message indicating they didn't fill out field X, instead turn the label of field X red or something like that.
It's the difference between saying to a user "you forgot this" with a simple indication and getting up into their face and saying "you are an idiot" with an generic error message popup.
The fact that you have users calling you so much because of error messages to begin with is concerning; that is indicative to me that your users are fighting with your software or it is not intuitive enough or it is buggy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316158</id>
	<title>Dear Slashdot...</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1267459140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...I am an IT person who, with our crappy commercial software and half baked open source or in-house solutions, has a user base that no longer reads the endless, incomprehensible, tiny font hobbled, hex code laden error messages with which they are continuously pummeled. When my users complain, I treat them like dirt on open forums where they can see the general attitude of IT folks toward people who just want a tool to do their job, and suggest they go back to preschool or that the computer deliver electric shocks. I ignore the simple possibility that the users have simply become immune to the endless errors and bugs, and I instead whimper like a crack whore jonesing for another fix. My question is this: is it too late to salvage my life?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.</p></div><p>An IT guy tried something similar where I work many years ago. All the investigators ever found was the remains of one of his shoes in a drainage ditch several states away, and the word "Croatoan" carved in a nearby tree.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...I am an IT person who , with our crappy commercial software and half baked open source or in-house solutions , has a user base that no longer reads the endless , incomprehensible , tiny font hobbled , hex code laden error messages with which they are continuously pummeled .
When my users complain , I treat them like dirt on open forums where they can see the general attitude of IT folks toward people who just want a tool to do their job , and suggest they go back to preschool or that the computer deliver electric shocks .
I ignore the simple possibility that the users have simply become immune to the endless errors and bugs , and I instead whimper like a crack whore jonesing for another fix .
My question is this : is it too late to salvage my life ? For starters , where possible , the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away , and if they reboot to get rid of it ( Task Manager is disabled on all client PC 's ) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.An IT guy tried something similar where I work many years ago .
All the investigators ever found was the remains of one of his shoes in a drainage ditch several states away , and the word " Croatoan " carved in a nearby tree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I am an IT person who, with our crappy commercial software and half baked open source or in-house solutions, has a user base that no longer reads the endless, incomprehensible, tiny font hobbled, hex code laden error messages with which they are continuously pummeled.
When my users complain, I treat them like dirt on open forums where they can see the general attitude of IT folks toward people who just want a tool to do their job, and suggest they go back to preschool or that the computer deliver electric shocks.
I ignore the simple possibility that the users have simply become immune to the endless errors and bugs, and I instead whimper like a crack whore jonesing for another fix.
My question is this: is it too late to salvage my life?For starters, where possible, the error wont actually close for them unless we enter an admin password to make it go away, and if they reboot to get rid of it (Task Manager is disabled on all client PC's) the machine will not open the application that crashed for 15 minutes.An IT guy tried something similar where I work many years ago.
All the investigators ever found was the remains of one of his shoes in a drainage ditch several states away, and the word "Croatoan" carved in a nearby tree.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316130</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1267459080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I really hope humans get that option. Most of the other possibilities are rather crap.<br><br>The other not so crap option is of course most humans become the "posthumans".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I really hope humans get that option .
Most of the other possibilities are rather crap.The other not so crap option is of course most humans become the " posthumans " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really hope humans get that option.
Most of the other possibilities are rather crap.The other not so crap option is of course most humans become the "posthumans".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316272</id>
	<title>Looking at the problem wrong.</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1267459500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Users want to keep doing whatever it is they are trying to do.  If an unexpected popup displays, they click through it as quickly as possible. This isn't out of malice, but simply because they want to get their task finished.  The quickest way to get it finished is to get this annoying message out of the way.
<p>
When you accept that, you actually open up a few more options.
</p><ul>
<li>What is your message really saying?  If it's more than a sentence, you're doing it wrong. Convey the point in as little text as possible, as clearly as possible - don't say "error code 10" because they won't remember it.  Say "printer offline".   Make the phrasing of different messages far enough separated so that even when someone tells you that they received a message like "printer purple monkey dishwasher", you still know what it means.</li>
<li>Use non-modal overlay notifications like firefox does to tell you that something wants to be installed.  They stay there until the user actually sees them but they don't get in the way.</li>
<li>Is the error serious? Why aren't you capturing it systematically and submitting to a central destination?</li>
<li>Should the error block the user from proceeding? If it's that serious why don't you shut down the application? If it's not that serious, re-think it, which leads into...</li>
<li>Do you have too many errors to capture systematically? Then why are you displaying all of them? Does the user really need to know about them?</li>
</ul><p>
That last point is key.  Do not waste the user's time telling them something they don't need to care about.  We have only ourselves to blame - for years we have been thrusting annoying, pointless, and confusing messages into the generations of software developers popping annoying messages into the user's face -- effectively training them to ignore the messages.  Many of those messages are things that users do not need to know or care about - so don't slow them down with the information.
</p><p>
Finally, keep in mind that users aren't necessarily looking at the screen.  I can't count how many times I''ve seen people staring at their keyboards and continue typing blithely while a message is displayed and input is being ignored.  Usually this leads to one of two things:  a) user sees their typing is lost, gets annoyed, and clicks through the stupid message preventing them for working, or b) user hits the Enter or space key in the course of their typing, and dismisses the message without ever realizing it was there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users want to keep doing whatever it is they are trying to do .
If an unexpected popup displays , they click through it as quickly as possible .
This is n't out of malice , but simply because they want to get their task finished .
The quickest way to get it finished is to get this annoying message out of the way .
When you accept that , you actually open up a few more options .
What is your message really saying ?
If it 's more than a sentence , you 're doing it wrong .
Convey the point in as little text as possible , as clearly as possible - do n't say " error code 10 " because they wo n't remember it .
Say " printer offline " .
Make the phrasing of different messages far enough separated so that even when someone tells you that they received a message like " printer purple monkey dishwasher " , you still know what it means .
Use non-modal overlay notifications like firefox does to tell you that something wants to be installed .
They stay there until the user actually sees them but they do n't get in the way .
Is the error serious ?
Why are n't you capturing it systematically and submitting to a central destination ?
Should the error block the user from proceeding ?
If it 's that serious why do n't you shut down the application ?
If it 's not that serious , re-think it , which leads into.. . Do you have too many errors to capture systematically ?
Then why are you displaying all of them ?
Does the user really need to know about them ?
That last point is key .
Do not waste the user 's time telling them something they do n't need to care about .
We have only ourselves to blame - for years we have been thrusting annoying , pointless , and confusing messages into the generations of software developers popping annoying messages into the user 's face -- effectively training them to ignore the messages .
Many of those messages are things that users do not need to know or care about - so do n't slow them down with the information .
Finally , keep in mind that users are n't necessarily looking at the screen .
I ca n't count how many times I ' 've seen people staring at their keyboards and continue typing blithely while a message is displayed and input is being ignored .
Usually this leads to one of two things : a ) user sees their typing is lost , gets annoyed , and clicks through the stupid message preventing them for working , or b ) user hits the Enter or space key in the course of their typing , and dismisses the message without ever realizing it was there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users want to keep doing whatever it is they are trying to do.
If an unexpected popup displays, they click through it as quickly as possible.
This isn't out of malice, but simply because they want to get their task finished.
The quickest way to get it finished is to get this annoying message out of the way.
When you accept that, you actually open up a few more options.
What is your message really saying?
If it's more than a sentence, you're doing it wrong.
Convey the point in as little text as possible, as clearly as possible - don't say "error code 10" because they won't remember it.
Say "printer offline".
Make the phrasing of different messages far enough separated so that even when someone tells you that they received a message like "printer purple monkey dishwasher", you still know what it means.
Use non-modal overlay notifications like firefox does to tell you that something wants to be installed.
They stay there until the user actually sees them but they don't get in the way.
Is the error serious?
Why aren't you capturing it systematically and submitting to a central destination?
Should the error block the user from proceeding?
If it's that serious why don't you shut down the application?
If it's not that serious, re-think it, which leads into...
Do you have too many errors to capture systematically?
Then why are you displaying all of them?
Does the user really need to know about them?
That last point is key.
Do not waste the user's time telling them something they don't need to care about.
We have only ourselves to blame - for years we have been thrusting annoying, pointless, and confusing messages into the generations of software developers popping annoying messages into the user's face -- effectively training them to ignore the messages.
Many of those messages are things that users do not need to know or care about - so don't slow them down with the information.
Finally, keep in mind that users aren't necessarily looking at the screen.
I can't count how many times I''ve seen people staring at their keyboards and continue typing blithely while a message is displayed and input is being ignored.
Usually this leads to one of two things:  a) user sees their typing is lost, gets annoyed, and clicks through the stupid message preventing them for working, or b) user hits the Enter or space key in the course of their typing, and dismisses the message without ever realizing it was there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316240</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>radtea</author>
	<datestamp>1267459440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?</p></div><p>Users are not reliable sources of information.  Anyone who has ever worked in support will tell you that asking a user what is on the screen is an almost pointless activity.</p><p>About 30\% of the time they will tell you the truth in terms that are meaningful, like "There is a dialog that says xyz".</p><p>50\% of the time they will tell you <b>something</b>, but it will be couched in terms that are meaningless or misleading.  Users have a different conceptual universe than developers, and often give reports that are honest in their own terms but so figurative and metaphorical as to be useless for practical debugging.</p><p>The remaining 20\% of the time users will tell you something that is flat-out false, claiming there is no error dialog on the screen when there is, or reading off an error string that does not exist (or is clearly marked as from a different application!) and so on.  They will claim the application will not start when it does, or tell you it is still running after it has crashed.</p><p>So asking users what is on the screen is something support people always do, but they never expect to get accurate information back because much of the time they don't.  In the case at hand, certain types of error dialog rapidly become invisible to users, and they will deny ever having seen them despite log files that clearly show they clicked on the OK button.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You were walking the user through the process , and you never asked them what 's on the screen ? Users are not reliable sources of information .
Anyone who has ever worked in support will tell you that asking a user what is on the screen is an almost pointless activity.About 30 \ % of the time they will tell you the truth in terms that are meaningful , like " There is a dialog that says xyz " .50 \ % of the time they will tell you something , but it will be couched in terms that are meaningless or misleading .
Users have a different conceptual universe than developers , and often give reports that are honest in their own terms but so figurative and metaphorical as to be useless for practical debugging.The remaining 20 \ % of the time users will tell you something that is flat-out false , claiming there is no error dialog on the screen when there is , or reading off an error string that does not exist ( or is clearly marked as from a different application !
) and so on .
They will claim the application will not start when it does , or tell you it is still running after it has crashed.So asking users what is on the screen is something support people always do , but they never expect to get accurate information back because much of the time they do n't .
In the case at hand , certain types of error dialog rapidly become invisible to users , and they will deny ever having seen them despite log files that clearly show they clicked on the OK button .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You were walking the user through the process, and you never asked them what's on the screen?Users are not reliable sources of information.
Anyone who has ever worked in support will tell you that asking a user what is on the screen is an almost pointless activity.About 30\% of the time they will tell you the truth in terms that are meaningful, like "There is a dialog that says xyz".50\% of the time they will tell you something, but it will be couched in terms that are meaningless or misleading.
Users have a different conceptual universe than developers, and often give reports that are honest in their own terms but so figurative and metaphorical as to be useless for practical debugging.The remaining 20\% of the time users will tell you something that is flat-out false, claiming there is no error dialog on the screen when there is, or reading off an error string that does not exist (or is clearly marked as from a different application!
) and so on.
They will claim the application will not start when it does, or tell you it is still running after it has crashed.So asking users what is on the screen is something support people always do, but they never expect to get accurate information back because much of the time they don't.
In the case at hand, certain types of error dialog rapidly become invisible to users, and they will deny ever having seen them despite log files that clearly show they clicked on the OK button.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315928</id>
	<title>Users are not the enemy</title>
	<author>jason.sweet</author>
	<datestamp>1267458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen.</p></div><p>Error dialogs are like the sign at MacDonald's that says you have to pay for extra ketchup packets - nobody reads them.  If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that you don't even read them unless you are working an issue.  Bright colors and cute picture are a waste of time - no one will see them.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a kick in the balls.</p></div><p>That's a terrible plan.  If using your product is painful, then the user will find an alternative.
<br>
It's already been said, but it bears repeating.  Automatic crash dumps are the only way you are going to get reliable information.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The longer I do desktop support , the more it becomes obvious that my users do n't read anything that appears on their screen.Error dialogs are like the sign at MacDonald 's that says you have to pay for extra ketchup packets - nobody reads them .
If you are honest with yourself , you will admit that you do n't even read them unless you are working an issue .
Bright colors and cute picture are a waste of time - no one will see them.I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a kick in the balls.That 's a terrible plan .
If using your product is painful , then the user will find an alternative .
It 's already been said , but it bears repeating .
Automatic crash dumps are the only way you are going to get reliable information .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The longer I do desktop support, the more it becomes obvious that my users don't read anything that appears on their screen.Error dialogs are like the sign at MacDonald's that says you have to pay for extra ketchup packets - nobody reads them.
If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that you don't even read them unless you are working an issue.
Bright colors and cute picture are a waste of time - no one will see them.I like to think that my users would remember the error that caused them to get a kick in the balls.That's a terrible plan.
If using your product is painful, then the user will find an alternative.
It's already been said, but it bears repeating.
Automatic crash dumps are the only way you are going to get reliable information.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315388</id>
	<title>Put the error in the form of a Joke</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Worker Drones love to open attachments and read jokes.  Use this to your advantage and profit.</p><p>captcha: formats</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Worker Drones love to open attachments and read jokes .
Use this to your advantage and profit.captcha : formats</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Worker Drones love to open attachments and read jokes.
Use this to your advantage and profit.captcha: formats</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31321448</id>
	<title>Re:A good plot</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1267435920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development.</p> </div><p>Clue:  It was Mr Raid, in the Server Room, with the Disk Error.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development .
Clue : It was Mr Raid , in the Server Room , with the Disk Error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The error message has to have a good plot and some character development.
Clue:  It was Mr Raid, in the Server Room, with the Disk Error.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31327174</id>
	<title>Re:Use Humor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267560600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>tl;dr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>tl ; dr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tl;dr</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316258</id>
	<title>DO NOT STEAL FOCUS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I type away frenetically on a mail when all of a sudden a window pops up, takes focus, gets the space bar and disappears.</p><p>Now what the #&pound;$ did it say? I will never know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I type away frenetically on a mail when all of a sudden a window pops up , takes focus , gets the space bar and disappears.Now what the #   $ did it say ?
I will never know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I type away frenetically on a mail when all of a sudden a window pops up, takes focus, gets the space bar and disappears.Now what the #£$ did it say?
I will never know.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316356</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the only haves would be the "creatives", while the rest would either starve to death or survive on handouts depending on the political climate of the social group one happen to be "member" of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the only haves would be the " creatives " , while the rest would either starve to death or survive on handouts depending on the political climate of the social group one happen to be " member " of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the only haves would be the "creatives", while the rest would either starve to death or survive on handouts depending on the political climate of the social group one happen to be "member" of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315402</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "one-click send me the info option" is definitely the best solution.</p><p>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " one-click send me the info option " is definitely the best solution.What is annoying is that in many Windows programs ( at least Office 97 ) you ca n't even copy and paste the error message text .
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "one-click send me the info option" is definitely the best solution.What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text.
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316726</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whenever I hear one person telling another person "how to use a computer" and a popup of any sort (including firewall, antivirus, and software update popups) comes up, they are always told to "ignore it and just close the stupid things". I've had so many problems <i>in my own family</i> along the lines of:</p><p>Mom: "Ryan something is wrong on the laptop!"<br>Me: "Alright, what is it?"<br>Mom: "[program x] isn't working, I keep clicking it and clicking it but nothing happens!"<br>Me: "Let me take a look at it." *double-clicks program icon and a popup appears about allowing it through our firewall*<br>Me: "Mom, what did you do when this pops up?"<br>Mom: "Oh, I just close it... is that a problem?"<br>Me: *sigh* "You have to read these things, mom! What they say is very important sometimes." *clicks allow button*<br>Me: "There, it'll work now."<br>Mom: "Thanks! Computers are so annoying..."</p><p>I've been trying to get her to use Ubuntu for years, which would help mostly, but she's stuck on Vista. I hope they get (another) virus so they'll <i>want</i> to switch<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whenever I hear one person telling another person " how to use a computer " and a popup of any sort ( including firewall , antivirus , and software update popups ) comes up , they are always told to " ignore it and just close the stupid things " .
I 've had so many problems in my own family along the lines of : Mom : " Ryan something is wrong on the laptop !
" Me : " Alright , what is it ?
" Mom : " [ program x ] is n't working , I keep clicking it and clicking it but nothing happens !
" Me : " Let me take a look at it .
" * double-clicks program icon and a popup appears about allowing it through our firewall * Me : " Mom , what did you do when this pops up ?
" Mom : " Oh , I just close it... is that a problem ?
" Me : * sigh * " You have to read these things , mom !
What they say is very important sometimes .
" * clicks allow button * Me : " There , it 'll work now .
" Mom : " Thanks !
Computers are so annoying... " I 've been trying to get her to use Ubuntu for years , which would help mostly , but she 's stuck on Vista .
I hope they get ( another ) virus so they 'll want to switch ; ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whenever I hear one person telling another person "how to use a computer" and a popup of any sort (including firewall, antivirus, and software update popups) comes up, they are always told to "ignore it and just close the stupid things".
I've had so many problems in my own family along the lines of:Mom: "Ryan something is wrong on the laptop!
"Me: "Alright, what is it?
"Mom: "[program x] isn't working, I keep clicking it and clicking it but nothing happens!
"Me: "Let me take a look at it.
" *double-clicks program icon and a popup appears about allowing it through our firewall*Me: "Mom, what did you do when this pops up?
"Mom: "Oh, I just close it... is that a problem?
"Me: *sigh* "You have to read these things, mom!
What they say is very important sometimes.
" *clicks allow button*Me: "There, it'll work now.
"Mom: "Thanks!
Computers are so annoying..."I've been trying to get her to use Ubuntu for years, which would help mostly, but she's stuck on Vista.
I hope they get (another) virus so they'll want to switch ;).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318846</id>
	<title>Google!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267469040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just add a "google it!" button. That's what I always do with errors. I usually have to type them, though. For some reason you can never, EVER copy and paste from an error box, and that's so very annoying, especially when you have a nice long generic one with 2 hex codes. ARGH</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just add a " google it !
" button .
That 's what I always do with errors .
I usually have to type them , though .
For some reason you can never , EVER copy and paste from an error box , and that 's so very annoying , especially when you have a nice long generic one with 2 hex codes .
ARGH</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just add a "google it!
" button.
That's what I always do with errors.
I usually have to type them, though.
For some reason you can never, EVER copy and paste from an error box, and that's so very annoying, especially when you have a nice long generic one with 2 hex codes.
ARGH</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316450</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>motorhead</author>
	<datestamp>1267460160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wipe the drive - that'll fix 'em!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wipe the drive - that 'll fix 'em !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wipe the drive - that'll fix 'em!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323808</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>ckarras</author>
	<datestamp>1267445220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like the IDE (Eclipse, Visual Studio...) way:
- group all errors into a list
- double-click on a error takes user to the screen/field that causes the error
- fields causing errors are highlighted
- when possible, a "autofix" icon next to the error can be clicked to see a list of suggested fixes. Clicking on a suggestion applies the fix (similar to Resharper)

The missing part to make this a realistic option would be frameworks that make this easy to implement for "business applications"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the IDE ( Eclipse , Visual Studio... ) way : - group all errors into a list - double-click on a error takes user to the screen/field that causes the error - fields causing errors are highlighted - when possible , a " autofix " icon next to the error can be clicked to see a list of suggested fixes .
Clicking on a suggestion applies the fix ( similar to Resharper ) The missing part to make this a realistic option would be frameworks that make this easy to implement for " business applications "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the IDE (Eclipse, Visual Studio...) way:
- group all errors into a list
- double-click on a error takes user to the screen/field that causes the error
- fields causing errors are highlighted
- when possible, a "autofix" icon next to the error can be clicked to see a list of suggested fixes.
Clicking on a suggestion applies the fix (similar to Resharper)

The missing part to make this a realistic option would be frameworks that make this easy to implement for "business applications"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322016</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267437960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that they're wasting their own time by skipping through the error messages. That wasted 15 minutes on their part is small compared to the total amount of time they're probably wasted because they just click whatever gets them to the next screen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that they 're wasting their own time by skipping through the error messages .
That wasted 15 minutes on their part is small compared to the total amount of time they 're probably wasted because they just click whatever gets them to the next screen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that they're wasting their own time by skipping through the error messages.
That wasted 15 minutes on their part is small compared to the total amount of time they're probably wasted because they just click whatever gets them to the next screen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315762</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320462</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>FireFury03</author>
	<datestamp>1267475460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users.  We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire."</p></div><p>Error messages don't just apply to hardware problems in any case - the idea that you can make software free from user-error messages whilst still making it usable is just downright silly.</p><p>Lets take an email application for example.  How do you send an email when the user has forgotten to enter the recipient's address?  Some options spring to mind:</p><p>You could grey out the "send" button until all the required data is filled in - this eliminates the need for an error message because it prevents the "sending with a blank recipient" condition ever occurring.  But the cost is high - you're now relying on the user to figure out for themselves why the "send" button can't be pressed, instead of allowing them to press it and then informing them why it doesn't make sense by displaying an error message.</p><p>Another option is to convert the whole thing into a step-by-step wizard, whereby they *have* to complete each step before moving onto the next.  But this means that the user has to adjust their workflow to conform to the software.  For example, I frequently don't enter the recipient's address until after I have read the message body (I probably needed to look up the address and didn't want to break my train of thought that led me to write the message in the first place).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements , and we need to communicate that state to users .
We call those communications " error messages " in the software world , and they cover everything from " out of memory " to " printer on fire .
" Error messages do n't just apply to hardware problems in any case - the idea that you can make software free from user-error messages whilst still making it usable is just downright silly.Lets take an email application for example .
How do you send an email when the user has forgotten to enter the recipient 's address ?
Some options spring to mind : You could grey out the " send " button until all the required data is filled in - this eliminates the need for an error message because it prevents the " sending with a blank recipient " condition ever occurring .
But the cost is high - you 're now relying on the user to figure out for themselves why the " send " button ca n't be pressed , instead of allowing them to press it and then informing them why it does n't make sense by displaying an error message.Another option is to convert the whole thing into a step-by-step wizard , whereby they * have * to complete each step before moving onto the next .
But this means that the user has to adjust their workflow to conform to the software .
For example , I frequently do n't enter the recipient 's address until after I have read the message body ( I probably needed to look up the address and did n't want to break my train of thought that led me to write the message in the first place ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because all machines have a physical component whose state is sometimes unable to fulfill user requirements, and we need to communicate that state to users.
We call those communications "error messages" in the software world, and they cover everything from "out of memory" to "printer on fire.
"Error messages don't just apply to hardware problems in any case - the idea that you can make software free from user-error messages whilst still making it usable is just downright silly.Lets take an email application for example.
How do you send an email when the user has forgotten to enter the recipient's address?
Some options spring to mind:You could grey out the "send" button until all the required data is filled in - this eliminates the need for an error message because it prevents the "sending with a blank recipient" condition ever occurring.
But the cost is high - you're now relying on the user to figure out for themselves why the "send" button can't be pressed, instead of allowing them to press it and then informing them why it doesn't make sense by displaying an error message.Another option is to convert the whole thing into a step-by-step wizard, whereby they *have* to complete each step before moving onto the next.
But this means that the user has to adjust their workflow to conform to the software.
For example, I frequently don't enter the recipient's address until after I have read the message body (I probably needed to look up the address and didn't want to break my train of thought that led me to write the message in the first place).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316314</id>
	<title>The puppy idea is close.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But people will not remember if they saw a puppy or a kitten. You have to show them something they cannot forget.</p><p>"Ok, so when the error came up, did you see goatse or tubgirl?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But people will not remember if they saw a puppy or a kitten .
You have to show them something they can not forget .
" Ok , so when the error came up , did you see goatse or tubgirl ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But people will not remember if they saw a puppy or a kitten.
You have to show them something they cannot forget.
"Ok, so when the error came up, did you see goatse or tubgirl?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316362</id>
	<title>or Validation Code.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267459740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wrote the registration software for a student run job fair. Spelled out on the first page are a few ground rules "We cannot accept credit cards" etc.</p><p>Every single semester we'd get some rep that "never saw that" or claimed we "changed the rules".</p><p>The final iteration that seemed to work was a 2 - 5 digit, randomly generated 'validation codes' that was in the 2nd and 4th paragraphs.</p><p>We'd often get the HR rep that would e-mail us:<br>"Did you read the instructions?"<br>"Yes"<br>"Everything you need is in the instructions."</p><p>Occasionally get we'd get some irate HR rep:<br>"You e-mailed me that they were in the instructions. I can't find them anywhere. We have to register now."<br>(and this is where you play dumb)<br>"Oh, I'm so sorry. They should be in the instructions. It may be a software bug. Could you please read the instructions to us".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...... "Your first validation code is: 23984. Payment methods are Check or Cash. No credit cards are accepted."<br>"Do you have any more questions". (Although usually you'd just get a click after they hit the words "Your validation code is".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wrote the registration software for a student run job fair .
Spelled out on the first page are a few ground rules " We can not accept credit cards " etc.Every single semester we 'd get some rep that " never saw that " or claimed we " changed the rules " .The final iteration that seemed to work was a 2 - 5 digit , randomly generated 'validation codes ' that was in the 2nd and 4th paragraphs.We 'd often get the HR rep that would e-mail us : " Did you read the instructions ?
" " Yes " " Everything you need is in the instructions .
" Occasionally get we 'd get some irate HR rep : " You e-mailed me that they were in the instructions .
I ca n't find them anywhere .
We have to register now .
" ( and this is where you play dumb ) " Oh , I 'm so sorry .
They should be in the instructions .
It may be a software bug .
Could you please read the instructions to us " .
...... " Your first validation code is : 23984 .
Payment methods are Check or Cash .
No credit cards are accepted .
" " Do you have any more questions " .
( Although usually you 'd just get a click after they hit the words " Your validation code is " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wrote the registration software for a student run job fair.
Spelled out on the first page are a few ground rules "We cannot accept credit cards" etc.Every single semester we'd get some rep that "never saw that" or claimed we "changed the rules".The final iteration that seemed to work was a 2 - 5 digit, randomly generated 'validation codes' that was in the 2nd and 4th paragraphs.We'd often get the HR rep that would e-mail us:"Did you read the instructions?
""Yes""Everything you need is in the instructions.
"Occasionally get we'd get some irate HR rep:"You e-mailed me that they were in the instructions.
I can't find them anywhere.
We have to register now.
"(and this is where you play dumb)"Oh, I'm so sorry.
They should be in the instructions.
It may be a software bug.
Could you please read the instructions to us".
...... "Your first validation code is: 23984.
Payment methods are Check or Cash.
No credit cards are accepted.
""Do you have any more questions".
(Although usually you'd just get a click after they hit the words "Your validation code is".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31331038</id>
	<title>Screen clutter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267550700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because of the online popup revolution of the early 2000s, people have become numb to the sight of error messages. People have formed the habit of immediately closing any window that pops up into their view. They may catch the first part of the message, but most of it is lost to them. They'll close the error message and then not understand why things aren't working correctly.</p><p>This leads me to my bigger pet peeve about those who PARTIALLY read error messages, but don't read the rest out to you. For example, someone may call me and say "I receive an error message while opening my email.. It says could not receive, yadda yadda yadda, and it keeps popping up every time I open my email."</p><p>"..... ok, could you read it to me exactly?"</p><p>"oh, I already closed it."</p><p>ARGH!</p><p>As far as not reading error messages is concerned though, the worst (I have found) are those messages that appear in Internet Explorer on the pale yellow bar. The messages that tell you a popup has been blocked, that you need to download the ActiveX, etc.. Trying to get people to focus their eyes on that bar is like trying to get them to stare at the sun. They just can't do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because of the online popup revolution of the early 2000s , people have become numb to the sight of error messages .
People have formed the habit of immediately closing any window that pops up into their view .
They may catch the first part of the message , but most of it is lost to them .
They 'll close the error message and then not understand why things are n't working correctly.This leads me to my bigger pet peeve about those who PARTIALLY read error messages , but do n't read the rest out to you .
For example , someone may call me and say " I receive an error message while opening my email.. It says could not receive , yadda yadda yadda , and it keeps popping up every time I open my email. " " .... .
ok , could you read it to me exactly ?
" " oh , I already closed it .
" ARGH ! As far as not reading error messages is concerned though , the worst ( I have found ) are those messages that appear in Internet Explorer on the pale yellow bar .
The messages that tell you a popup has been blocked , that you need to download the ActiveX , etc.. Trying to get people to focus their eyes on that bar is like trying to get them to stare at the sun .
They just ca n't do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because of the online popup revolution of the early 2000s, people have become numb to the sight of error messages.
People have formed the habit of immediately closing any window that pops up into their view.
They may catch the first part of the message, but most of it is lost to them.
They'll close the error message and then not understand why things aren't working correctly.This leads me to my bigger pet peeve about those who PARTIALLY read error messages, but don't read the rest out to you.
For example, someone may call me and say "I receive an error message while opening my email.. It says could not receive, yadda yadda yadda, and it keeps popping up every time I open my email."".....
ok, could you read it to me exactly?
""oh, I already closed it.
"ARGH!As far as not reading error messages is concerned though, the worst (I have found) are those messages that appear in Internet Explorer on the pale yellow bar.
The messages that tell you a popup has been blocked, that you need to download the ActiveX, etc.. Trying to get people to focus their eyes on that bar is like trying to get them to stare at the sun.
They just can't do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316558</id>
	<title>You can't make them read...</title>
	<author>mhkohne</author>
	<datestamp>1267460760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing you can do will get the users to read the message. NOTHING. The best you can do is to make sure that the error will live in a log somewhere (with timestamps and perhaps screen shots if possible) so that you can figure out what they are talking about.</p><p>There's simply no way to force people to pay attention to error messages on the screen - they are focused on doing something, and the error dialog is in the way, so they dismiss it as fast as possible. Then they complain that it's not working.</p><p>There's just no way around it - they won't read, they don't read, and they can't be made to read. Give up trying to make them read, and instead find a way to get information in the absence of user assistance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing you can do will get the users to read the message .
NOTHING. The best you can do is to make sure that the error will live in a log somewhere ( with timestamps and perhaps screen shots if possible ) so that you can figure out what they are talking about.There 's simply no way to force people to pay attention to error messages on the screen - they are focused on doing something , and the error dialog is in the way , so they dismiss it as fast as possible .
Then they complain that it 's not working.There 's just no way around it - they wo n't read , they do n't read , and they ca n't be made to read .
Give up trying to make them read , and instead find a way to get information in the absence of user assistance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing you can do will get the users to read the message.
NOTHING. The best you can do is to make sure that the error will live in a log somewhere (with timestamps and perhaps screen shots if possible) so that you can figure out what they are talking about.There's simply no way to force people to pay attention to error messages on the screen - they are focused on doing something, and the error dialog is in the way, so they dismiss it as fast as possible.
Then they complain that it's not working.There's just no way around it - they won't read, they don't read, and they can't be made to read.
Give up trying to make them read, and instead find a way to get information in the absence of user assistance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315628</id>
	<title>Distill them</title>
	<author>cgenman</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a game designer, and sometime game UI designer, I feel your pain.</p><p>The best way to get people to read your error messages is to have very few of them.  People just tune them out.  If you're tossing up error messages for things like synchronizing to network shares before the user really needs to, or connecting to 3rd party tools that the individual tool can handle the error for, cut those.  They'll get to those errors later anyway, or the problem will be fixed by then.  The only error messages should happen when it is impossible to do what the user asked.</p><p>The ones that you do have should be 7 words or less, and should be both meaningful and in plain english (even for engineers).  "Uninitialized Data" is technobabble, and "It Didn't Work" doesn't tell you anything.  "Couldn't connect to the mail server" is much better, as it tells the user exactly what was wrong, but within a small enough space that by glancing at the textbox the user has already read it.</p><p>Icons are most likely going to confuse your users unless they directly relate to the error at hand.  "Warning: Trojan Detected [panda kicking a soccer ball]" might be cute, but if people are already confused they're going to have a hard time remembering even the soccer ball.  The conflict of visual imagery just muddies the water.  Throw a needle on the screen, and everybody will remember in a panic that the error had a needle up there, but not what the text said.  If that snippet of information is not enough to work from, you'll need to find a different solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a game designer , and sometime game UI designer , I feel your pain.The best way to get people to read your error messages is to have very few of them .
People just tune them out .
If you 're tossing up error messages for things like synchronizing to network shares before the user really needs to , or connecting to 3rd party tools that the individual tool can handle the error for , cut those .
They 'll get to those errors later anyway , or the problem will be fixed by then .
The only error messages should happen when it is impossible to do what the user asked.The ones that you do have should be 7 words or less , and should be both meaningful and in plain english ( even for engineers ) .
" Uninitialized Data " is technobabble , and " It Did n't Work " does n't tell you anything .
" Could n't connect to the mail server " is much better , as it tells the user exactly what was wrong , but within a small enough space that by glancing at the textbox the user has already read it.Icons are most likely going to confuse your users unless they directly relate to the error at hand .
" Warning : Trojan Detected [ panda kicking a soccer ball ] " might be cute , but if people are already confused they 're going to have a hard time remembering even the soccer ball .
The conflict of visual imagery just muddies the water .
Throw a needle on the screen , and everybody will remember in a panic that the error had a needle up there , but not what the text said .
If that snippet of information is not enough to work from , you 'll need to find a different solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a game designer, and sometime game UI designer, I feel your pain.The best way to get people to read your error messages is to have very few of them.
People just tune them out.
If you're tossing up error messages for things like synchronizing to network shares before the user really needs to, or connecting to 3rd party tools that the individual tool can handle the error for, cut those.
They'll get to those errors later anyway, or the problem will be fixed by then.
The only error messages should happen when it is impossible to do what the user asked.The ones that you do have should be 7 words or less, and should be both meaningful and in plain english (even for engineers).
"Uninitialized Data" is technobabble, and "It Didn't Work" doesn't tell you anything.
"Couldn't connect to the mail server" is much better, as it tells the user exactly what was wrong, but within a small enough space that by glancing at the textbox the user has already read it.Icons are most likely going to confuse your users unless they directly relate to the error at hand.
"Warning: Trojan Detected [panda kicking a soccer ball]" might be cute, but if people are already confused they're going to have a hard time remembering even the soccer ball.
The conflict of visual imagery just muddies the water.
Throw a needle on the screen, and everybody will remember in a panic that the error had a needle up there, but not what the text said.
If that snippet of information is not enough to work from, you'll need to find a different solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315224</id>
	<title>careful</title>
	<author>JayRott</author>
	<datestamp>1267455900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do like the ball-kicking error idea, but be careful which one you use. Windows can be testy and the last thing you need unprovoked genital damage when you are trying to fix a workstation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do like the ball-kicking error idea , but be careful which one you use .
Windows can be testy and the last thing you need unprovoked genital damage when you are trying to fix a workstation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do like the ball-kicking error idea, but be careful which one you use.
Windows can be testy and the last thing you need unprovoked genital damage when you are trying to fix a workstation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322636</id>
	<title>Re:Make others remember</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1267440300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The proper phrase was 'HEY EVERYBODY, I'm LOOKING AT GAY PORNO'</p><p>And yes, its happened to me in a meeting on the laptop.</p><p>Fortunately, it was after clicking on a link sent to me by the boss asking for a way to block that particular URL at the proxies.</p><p>Interestingly enough, I could still feel my face turning red when it came out of the speakers even though everyone there knew what was going on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The proper phrase was 'HEY EVERYBODY , I 'm LOOKING AT GAY PORNO'And yes , its happened to me in a meeting on the laptop.Fortunately , it was after clicking on a link sent to me by the boss asking for a way to block that particular URL at the proxies.Interestingly enough , I could still feel my face turning red when it came out of the speakers even though everyone there knew what was going on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proper phrase was 'HEY EVERYBODY, I'm LOOKING AT GAY PORNO'And yes, its happened to me in a meeting on the laptop.Fortunately, it was after clicking on a link sent to me by the boss asking for a way to block that particular URL at the proxies.Interestingly enough, I could still feel my face turning red when it came out of the speakers even though everyone there knew what was going on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315268</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31346028</id>
	<title>First Question..</title>
	<author>MercTech</author>
	<datestamp>1267633920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, try asking "Are you the person that received the problem?"</p><p>Ask who found the problem....</p><p>I have trouble counting how many times I've had an error in a program, read the error code, knew what the problem was and a few potential fixes but didn't have admin so I could fix it myself.  I let the supervisor know there is a problem and have a clueless supervisor jump in and give IT a load of crap and be unable to even read the message on the screen.  I guess the words there were not in his crossword puzzle dictionary.</p><p>Remember, a trained manager can manage anything even if they don't understand it just like a trained teacher can teach anything even if they don't understand it.  (If you believe this I have shares in a big bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.)</p><p>As to not reading error messages... try poking one spot on your skin over and over... the spot becomes numb.  MS Windows give out so many irrelevant popups that you have to click through that it becomes second nature to "close the damned window that is covering up what you are doing".</p><p>I really enjoy having the error log in Windows 7.  It allows me to go back and see what irrelevant errors popped up while I was doing something else.  i.e. "X application cannot connect" errors that come up when you do not have an internet connection.  (peeve - programs that insist on trying to phone home when you are working in standalone)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , try asking " Are you the person that received the problem ?
" Ask who found the problem....I have trouble counting how many times I 've had an error in a program , read the error code , knew what the problem was and a few potential fixes but did n't have admin so I could fix it myself .
I let the supervisor know there is a problem and have a clueless supervisor jump in and give IT a load of crap and be unable to even read the message on the screen .
I guess the words there were not in his crossword puzzle dictionary.Remember , a trained manager can manage anything even if they do n't understand it just like a trained teacher can teach anything even if they do n't understand it .
( If you believe this I have shares in a big bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in .
) As to not reading error messages... try poking one spot on your skin over and over... the spot becomes numb .
MS Windows give out so many irrelevant popups that you have to click through that it becomes second nature to " close the damned window that is covering up what you are doing " .I really enjoy having the error log in Windows 7 .
It allows me to go back and see what irrelevant errors popped up while I was doing something else .
i.e. " X application can not connect " errors that come up when you do not have an internet connection .
( peeve - programs that insist on trying to phone home when you are working in standalone )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, try asking "Are you the person that received the problem?
"Ask who found the problem....I have trouble counting how many times I've had an error in a program, read the error code, knew what the problem was and a few potential fixes but didn't have admin so I could fix it myself.
I let the supervisor know there is a problem and have a clueless supervisor jump in and give IT a load of crap and be unable to even read the message on the screen.
I guess the words there were not in his crossword puzzle dictionary.Remember, a trained manager can manage anything even if they don't understand it just like a trained teacher can teach anything even if they don't understand it.
(If you believe this I have shares in a big bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
)As to not reading error messages... try poking one spot on your skin over and over... the spot becomes numb.
MS Windows give out so many irrelevant popups that you have to click through that it becomes second nature to "close the damned window that is covering up what you are doing".I really enjoy having the error log in Windows 7.
It allows me to go back and see what irrelevant errors popped up while I was doing something else.
i.e. "X application cannot connect" errors that come up when you do not have an internet connection.
(peeve - programs that insist on trying to phone home when you are working in standalone)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317222</id>
	<title>Because error messages never make sense!</title>
	<author>adric22</author>
	<datestamp>1267463040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The main reason most users don't bother reading error messages is because they aren't used to having messages that are informative.  PC LOAD LETTER is an excellent example, but in many cases with products the error messages may even be clear, but they aren't accurate.  How many times have we seen a program give an error message about "insufficient memory" or something to that effect.  So the user (if they read it) believes that they need a RAM upgrade in their computer.  After you research the message, you find out that it really has nothing to do with memory and was in fact some totally unrelated problem.   If programmers spent more time creating accurate error messages, maybe people would read them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The main reason most users do n't bother reading error messages is because they are n't used to having messages that are informative .
PC LOAD LETTER is an excellent example , but in many cases with products the error messages may even be clear , but they are n't accurate .
How many times have we seen a program give an error message about " insufficient memory " or something to that effect .
So the user ( if they read it ) believes that they need a RAM upgrade in their computer .
After you research the message , you find out that it really has nothing to do with memory and was in fact some totally unrelated problem .
If programmers spent more time creating accurate error messages , maybe people would read them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main reason most users don't bother reading error messages is because they aren't used to having messages that are informative.
PC LOAD LETTER is an excellent example, but in many cases with products the error messages may even be clear, but they aren't accurate.
How many times have we seen a program give an error message about "insufficient memory" or something to that effect.
So the user (if they read it) believes that they need a RAM upgrade in their computer.
After you research the message, you find out that it really has nothing to do with memory and was in fact some totally unrelated problem.
If programmers spent more time creating accurate error messages, maybe people would read them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319816</id>
	<title>Wow I just realisez what made me good at computers</title>
	<author>Lazypete</author>
	<datestamp>1267472820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just realized that what made me soo good with computer.. you know the kind of guy that get called by his whole familly, and even the families of friends<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... is that I know how to read an error message....</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just realized that what made me soo good with computer.. you know the kind of guy that get called by his whole familly , and even the families of friends ... is that I know how to read an error message... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just realized that what made me soo good with computer.. you know the kind of guy that get called by his whole familly, and even the families of friends ... is that I know how to read an error message....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322830</id>
	<title>Re:Screen Shot?</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1267441020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity. Yet 99\% of them are</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
So, everybody's competent except the one with multiple personality disorder?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have roughly 50 users I support , of varying technical capacity .
Yet 99 \ % of them are So , everybody 's competent except the one with multiple personality disorder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have roughly 50 users I support, of varying technical capacity.
Yet 99\% of them are

So, everybody's competent except the one with multiple personality disorder?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316956</id>
	<title>Don't rely on users at all</title>
	<author>thadmiller</author>
	<datestamp>1267462140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you can manage it, don't rely on users at all.</p><p>This won't work for everyone, but as a medium sized company with its internal software being a web-service, we have the system email errors to ourselves (developers).  Perhaps it's a waste of bandwidth and my mailbox, but the benefits outweigh the cost - dramatically.</p><p>Doing this, you have the error message within your grasps, and rarely have to rely on users to tell you what they did wrong.  It also gives use the ability to quickly recognize any bugs that make it into the system.  Of course it's not 100\% foolproof, but it has REALLY helped us, since you absolutely cannot count on the user to do the right thing, read the right thing, or pay attention to anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you can manage it , do n't rely on users at all.This wo n't work for everyone , but as a medium sized company with its internal software being a web-service , we have the system email errors to ourselves ( developers ) .
Perhaps it 's a waste of bandwidth and my mailbox , but the benefits outweigh the cost - dramatically.Doing this , you have the error message within your grasps , and rarely have to rely on users to tell you what they did wrong .
It also gives use the ability to quickly recognize any bugs that make it into the system .
Of course it 's not 100 \ % foolproof , but it has REALLY helped us , since you absolutely can not count on the user to do the right thing , read the right thing , or pay attention to anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you can manage it, don't rely on users at all.This won't work for everyone, but as a medium sized company with its internal software being a web-service, we have the system email errors to ourselves (developers).
Perhaps it's a waste of bandwidth and my mailbox, but the benefits outweigh the cost - dramatically.Doing this, you have the error message within your grasps, and rarely have to rely on users to tell you what they did wrong.
It also gives use the ability to quickly recognize any bugs that make it into the system.
Of course it's not 100\% foolproof, but it has REALLY helped us, since you absolutely cannot count on the user to do the right thing, read the right thing, or pay attention to anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316306</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>sribe</author>
	<datestamp>1267459620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...</p></div><p>Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF <b>ASSHOLES</b> think that users should take responsibility for crashes??? Your software should not be crashing all over the place. You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...Excuse me , but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes ? ? ?
Your software should not be crashing all over the place .
You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...but after trying for literally YEARS to make users take responsibility for crashes...Excuse me, but WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF ASSHOLES think that users should take responsibility for crashes???
Your software should not be crashing all over the place.
You should devise some automated way to gather information about crashes without requiring the poor users of your piece of shit to do your job for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315296</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316036</id>
	<title>how to get users to read error messages</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>add a captia type feature into the error message. so that the user has to read the error then answer a question before the window will go away...</p><p>but this assumes that you want them to read it. not so much to understand it.<br>then again, this will just get them to read the error just enough until they know where the answer to the captia is, and answer that to get the window to go away.</p><p>so in the end we are back to square 1</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>add a captia type feature into the error message .
so that the user has to read the error then answer a question before the window will go away...but this assumes that you want them to read it .
not so much to understand it.then again , this will just get them to read the error just enough until they know where the answer to the captia is , and answer that to get the window to go away.so in the end we are back to square 1</tokentext>
<sentencetext>add a captia type feature into the error message.
so that the user has to read the error then answer a question before the window will go away...but this assumes that you want them to read it.
not so much to understand it.then again, this will just get them to read the error just enough until they know where the answer to the captia is, and answer that to get the window to go away.so in the end we are back to square 1</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317676</id>
	<title>Users don't even read error messages in bold red</title>
	<author>supenguin</author>
	<datestamp>1267464780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work at an e-commerce company and we added a feature to indicate to our support team if they were looking at information about someone's account &amp; there was an issue.  Initially, the information about potential issues was the same font as the rest of the page but it was in bold.</p><p>After a week, the manager said no one was paying attention to the errors. Change it to be a bigger font and bright red. So we did. Things were fine for a week. Then the manager came back "people are ignoring the error." These messages were inside h1 HTML tags, bright red, and CSS styled to be huge. 18 or 24 point font on a page where most everything else was 12 point, if I recall correctly.  We had did just about everything except for putting it in a BLINK tag. We do have some standards, you know!</p><p>The manager came up with what she thought was a good solution: randomly change the color, position and size of the warning messages. We told her no way, just train your people better.  I haven't checked back to see what they ended up doing after I stopped working there.</p><p>Shorter story that proves the point: I had a family member complain their email wasn't working any more. I went over &amp; told them hit the button to get new email. An error pops up that they have an invalid password. I told them it means that you have the wrong password, call tech support because there's nothing I can do about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work at an e-commerce company and we added a feature to indicate to our support team if they were looking at information about someone 's account &amp; there was an issue .
Initially , the information about potential issues was the same font as the rest of the page but it was in bold.After a week , the manager said no one was paying attention to the errors .
Change it to be a bigger font and bright red .
So we did .
Things were fine for a week .
Then the manager came back " people are ignoring the error .
" These messages were inside h1 HTML tags , bright red , and CSS styled to be huge .
18 or 24 point font on a page where most everything else was 12 point , if I recall correctly .
We had did just about everything except for putting it in a BLINK tag .
We do have some standards , you know ! The manager came up with what she thought was a good solution : randomly change the color , position and size of the warning messages .
We told her no way , just train your people better .
I have n't checked back to see what they ended up doing after I stopped working there.Shorter story that proves the point : I had a family member complain their email was n't working any more .
I went over &amp; told them hit the button to get new email .
An error pops up that they have an invalid password .
I told them it means that you have the wrong password , call tech support because there 's nothing I can do about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work at an e-commerce company and we added a feature to indicate to our support team if they were looking at information about someone's account &amp; there was an issue.
Initially, the information about potential issues was the same font as the rest of the page but it was in bold.After a week, the manager said no one was paying attention to the errors.
Change it to be a bigger font and bright red.
So we did.
Things were fine for a week.
Then the manager came back "people are ignoring the error.
" These messages were inside h1 HTML tags, bright red, and CSS styled to be huge.
18 or 24 point font on a page where most everything else was 12 point, if I recall correctly.
We had did just about everything except for putting it in a BLINK tag.
We do have some standards, you know!The manager came up with what she thought was a good solution: randomly change the color, position and size of the warning messages.
We told her no way, just train your people better.
I haven't checked back to see what they ended up doing after I stopped working there.Shorter story that proves the point: I had a family member complain their email wasn't working any more.
I went over &amp; told them hit the button to get new email.
An error pops up that they have an invalid password.
I told them it means that you have the wrong password, call tech support because there's nothing I can do about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315692</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You cant fix stupid...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You cant fix stupid.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You cant fix stupid...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320118</id>
	<title>Eeeeeeeeema!</title>
	<author>SEWilco</author>
	<datestamp>1267474020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had a longer comment, but it got lost when I got the screaming yellow unicorn error.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a longer comment , but it got lost when I got the screaming yellow unicorn error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a longer comment, but it got lost when I got the screaming yellow unicorn error.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316124</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>renoX</author>
	<datestamp>1267459080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p><p>Very funny. When are you writting a wordprocessor (not a toy say one which use ODF) or a webbrowser?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Very funny .
When are you writting a wordprocessor ( not a toy say one which use ODF ) or a webbrowser ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Very funny.
When are you writting a wordprocessor (not a toy say one which use ODF) or a webbrowser?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317568</id>
	<title>a way of Partition Magic and my own advice</title>
	<author>azh</author>
	<datestamp>1267464360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the DOS version of good old Partition Magic OK button was grayed out until the user typed OK in a text box. This was done in some important dialogs, like one for full format of the partition. Also you may try to set a delay and prohibit to close dialog box till its end.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the DOS version of good old Partition Magic OK button was grayed out until the user typed OK in a text box .
This was done in some important dialogs , like one for full format of the partition .
Also you may try to set a delay and prohibit to close dialog box till its end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the DOS version of good old Partition Magic OK button was grayed out until the user typed OK in a text box.
This was done in some important dialogs, like one for full format of the partition.
Also you may try to set a delay and prohibit to close dialog box till its end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315266</id>
	<title>Full screen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>with super big text, and a timer to keep it on the screen for a certain amount of time. I don't think they'd miss that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>with super big text , and a timer to keep it on the screen for a certain amount of time .
I do n't think they 'd miss that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>with super big text, and a timer to keep it on the screen for a certain amount of time.
I don't think they'd miss that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31327990</id>
	<title>Scorn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267529700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First I want to get out of the way the fact that interface design in Windows(tm) is the most godawful shitty mess I've ever seen. Finishing an action with no error should not pop up a dialog saying "Your action finished correctly". Ridiculous and annoying, and trains everyone to quickly click on everything because 99\% of that idiot boxes are unimportant and they are really an impediment to work: nothing bad has happened but they are not progressing unless they click there fast. That's rational behavior on everyone's part. Heck, those stupid dialogs could go even further and pop up every 20 seconds for no reason at all. That has to stop. When an important one pops up, they have clicked something before they realize they should have called me.</p><p>So I understand that and I'm not hard on the smart people. Now, on to the idiots. Scorn. That works every time. It works on small people because their stupid world is big about how others act around them. Their minds (for lack of a better word) are highly trained on small, petty feelings like shame and that's where you should hit. Scorn them, calmly, dispassionately, (not with irony! they don't get it!) as if you are talking to a disappointing animal (you are, but they think they are pretty smart, and don't see that coming until after you are gone). Say something along the lines of 'don't waste my time again' or 'call me only if you can still read the message' or, if you are grumpier than the usual me and it's been several times of this, just walk away without even opening your mouth and let them chase you and email inane drivel to your boss. Nothing will happen to you, and they learn something sometimes.</p><p>I don't know if my opinion seems far fetched or not, but I can get away with it at my workplace, and it's great. Of course they fear me, some resent me and I get no appreciation from the idiots. But they call rarely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First I want to get out of the way the fact that interface design in Windows ( tm ) is the most godawful shitty mess I 've ever seen .
Finishing an action with no error should not pop up a dialog saying " Your action finished correctly " .
Ridiculous and annoying , and trains everyone to quickly click on everything because 99 \ % of that idiot boxes are unimportant and they are really an impediment to work : nothing bad has happened but they are not progressing unless they click there fast .
That 's rational behavior on everyone 's part .
Heck , those stupid dialogs could go even further and pop up every 20 seconds for no reason at all .
That has to stop .
When an important one pops up , they have clicked something before they realize they should have called me.So I understand that and I 'm not hard on the smart people .
Now , on to the idiots .
Scorn. That works every time .
It works on small people because their stupid world is big about how others act around them .
Their minds ( for lack of a better word ) are highly trained on small , petty feelings like shame and that 's where you should hit .
Scorn them , calmly , dispassionately , ( not with irony !
they do n't get it !
) as if you are talking to a disappointing animal ( you are , but they think they are pretty smart , and do n't see that coming until after you are gone ) .
Say something along the lines of 'do n't waste my time again ' or 'call me only if you can still read the message ' or , if you are grumpier than the usual me and it 's been several times of this , just walk away without even opening your mouth and let them chase you and email inane drivel to your boss .
Nothing will happen to you , and they learn something sometimes.I do n't know if my opinion seems far fetched or not , but I can get away with it at my workplace , and it 's great .
Of course they fear me , some resent me and I get no appreciation from the idiots .
But they call rarely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First I want to get out of the way the fact that interface design in Windows(tm) is the most godawful shitty mess I've ever seen.
Finishing an action with no error should not pop up a dialog saying "Your action finished correctly".
Ridiculous and annoying, and trains everyone to quickly click on everything because 99\% of that idiot boxes are unimportant and they are really an impediment to work: nothing bad has happened but they are not progressing unless they click there fast.
That's rational behavior on everyone's part.
Heck, those stupid dialogs could go even further and pop up every 20 seconds for no reason at all.
That has to stop.
When an important one pops up, they have clicked something before they realize they should have called me.So I understand that and I'm not hard on the smart people.
Now, on to the idiots.
Scorn. That works every time.
It works on small people because their stupid world is big about how others act around them.
Their minds (for lack of a better word) are highly trained on small, petty feelings like shame and that's where you should hit.
Scorn them, calmly, dispassionately, (not with irony!
they don't get it!
) as if you are talking to a disappointing animal (you are, but they think they are pretty smart, and don't see that coming until after you are gone).
Say something along the lines of 'don't waste my time again' or 'call me only if you can still read the message' or, if you are grumpier than the usual me and it's been several times of this, just walk away without even opening your mouth and let them chase you and email inane drivel to your boss.
Nothing will happen to you, and they learn something sometimes.I don't know if my opinion seems far fetched or not, but I can get away with it at my workplace, and it's great.
Of course they fear me, some resent me and I get no appreciation from the idiots.
But they call rarely.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318984</id>
	<title>Re:A good plot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267469520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you say in the first chapter that there is an Exception, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must be thrown.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you say in the first chapter that there is an Exception , in the second or third chapter it absolutely must be thrown .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you say in the first chapter that there is an Exception, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must be thrown.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316234</id>
	<title>Make errors understandable</title>
	<author>DJRumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1267459440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most errors spew garbage about Exception and Null Pointer, and No Resume, etc etc ad-nauseum. That will get an immediate non-response from an end user. Most importantly, you need something that a typical end user can understand. The technical error can always be logged elsewhere, but the information as presented to the end user can't be overly complex, overly long, or confusing (Keep It Simple Stupid). I can't stress that enough.</p><p>If all else fails, you can randomize the 'chime' that's played for an error to grab their attention, as well as utilizing full screen errors to hide what their working on.</p><p>You can also consider non-standard response dialogues/buttons that actually require them to read the button.</p><p>We used non-standard modal dialog boxes, odd colors, plain text errors and consequences, and non-standard buttons to good result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most errors spew garbage about Exception and Null Pointer , and No Resume , etc etc ad-nauseum .
That will get an immediate non-response from an end user .
Most importantly , you need something that a typical end user can understand .
The technical error can always be logged elsewhere , but the information as presented to the end user ca n't be overly complex , overly long , or confusing ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) .
I ca n't stress that enough.If all else fails , you can randomize the 'chime ' that 's played for an error to grab their attention , as well as utilizing full screen errors to hide what their working on.You can also consider non-standard response dialogues/buttons that actually require them to read the button.We used non-standard modal dialog boxes , odd colors , plain text errors and consequences , and non-standard buttons to good result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most errors spew garbage about Exception and Null Pointer, and No Resume, etc etc ad-nauseum.
That will get an immediate non-response from an end user.
Most importantly, you need something that a typical end user can understand.
The technical error can always be logged elsewhere, but the information as presented to the end user can't be overly complex, overly long, or confusing (Keep It Simple Stupid).
I can't stress that enough.If all else fails, you can randomize the 'chime' that's played for an error to grab their attention, as well as utilizing full screen errors to hide what their working on.You can also consider non-standard response dialogues/buttons that actually require them to read the button.We used non-standard modal dialog boxes, odd colors, plain text errors and consequences, and non-standard buttons to good result.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31444286</id>
	<title>Re:"Made to Stick" supports the 'puppy picture' id</title>
	<author>david.emery</author>
	<datestamp>1268302020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No winners.  Xerox/SDS Sigma series error message if you mistyped the name of an executable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No winners .
Xerox/SDS Sigma series error message if you mistyped the name of an executable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No winners.
Xerox/SDS Sigma series error message if you mistyped the name of an executable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316948</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>xOneca</author>
	<datestamp>1267462140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can't do anything. Lusers won't read it.
<p>
For a luser, a message is:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>An error, warning, information, confirmation, request. Irrelevant and ignorable until something goes wrong.</p></div><p>And if something goes wrong, they will pay attention only if rand() == 0.476384.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't do anything .
Lusers wo n't read it .
For a luser , a message is : An error , warning , information , confirmation , request .
Irrelevant and ignorable until something goes wrong.And if something goes wrong , they will pay attention only if rand ( ) = = 0.476384 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't do anything.
Lusers won't read it.
For a luser, a message is:An error, warning, information, confirmation, request.
Irrelevant and ignorable until something goes wrong.And if something goes wrong, they will pay attention only if rand() == 0.476384.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31329438</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267543500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gosh, I hate that. Those warnings are there for a reason. If you truly feel they do not apply to your program, then disable those warnings in your Makefile or equivalent. Or actually fix them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gosh , I hate that .
Those warnings are there for a reason .
If you truly feel they do not apply to your program , then disable those warnings in your Makefile or equivalent .
Or actually fix them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gosh, I hate that.
Those warnings are there for a reason.
If you truly feel they do not apply to your program, then disable those warnings in your Makefile or equivalent.
Or actually fix them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317526</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></div><p> <b>Error:</b> Your document cannot be saved. <i>You filled up your disk, again, idiot!</i></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable .
If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed .
Error : Your document can not be saved .
You filled up your disk , again , idiot !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.
If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.
Error: Your document cannot be saved.
You filled up your disk, again, idiot!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318476</id>
	<title>They don't want to read</title>
	<author>LuminaireX</author>
	<datestamp>1267467660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're calling you because they want you to come fix it, personally. They don't want to do anything on their own, even if it's as simple as following verbal instructions over the phone. Users don't want to read an error to you. They either want to continue what they were working on before they were stopped unexpectedly, or continue researching kitten videos on Youtube.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're calling you because they want you to come fix it , personally .
They do n't want to do anything on their own , even if it 's as simple as following verbal instructions over the phone .
Users do n't want to read an error to you .
They either want to continue what they were working on before they were stopped unexpectedly , or continue researching kitten videos on Youtube .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're calling you because they want you to come fix it, personally.
They don't want to do anything on their own, even if it's as simple as following verbal instructions over the phone.
Users don't want to read an error to you.
They either want to continue what they were working on before they were stopped unexpectedly, or continue researching kitten videos on Youtube.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31323224</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>Static</author>
	<datestamp>1267442460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, a lot of (non-IT) workers just want to get their work done and an enforced 15-minute break is unwelcome and unnerving. Especially when it's because they demonstrably did something stupid.</p><p>I agree that IT's job is as you say, but it's not a one-way street. For end-users who won't take responsibility for their mistakes, it is unreasonable for IT accomodate that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , a lot of ( non-IT ) workers just want to get their work done and an enforced 15-minute break is unwelcome and unnerving .
Especially when it 's because they demonstrably did something stupid.I agree that IT 's job is as you say , but it 's not a one-way street .
For end-users who wo n't take responsibility for their mistakes , it is unreasonable for IT accomodate that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, a lot of (non-IT) workers just want to get their work done and an enforced 15-minute break is unwelcome and unnerving.
Especially when it's because they demonstrably did something stupid.I agree that IT's job is as you say, but it's not a one-way street.
For end-users who won't take responsibility for their mistakes, it is unreasonable for IT accomodate that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315762</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318056</id>
	<title>Re:Fixed Penalty</title>
	<author>boxxertrumps</author>
	<datestamp>1267466220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The kind of assholes that think that contractors should report structural defects on their job site to the foreman and that chem students should report spills to the professor. And if someone found a strangely colored rash on their skin, these assholes think they should tell a doctor.</p><p>LAST I CHECKED, people were responsible for getting their job done, and keeping their tools and workspace maintained properly. If they can't pay attention to their workspace long enough to make a note of a problem they are having, then they really don't deserve to stay employed. If they failed to do that as a contractor or chem student, they would definitely be out on their ear, why should office work be any different?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The kind of assholes that think that contractors should report structural defects on their job site to the foreman and that chem students should report spills to the professor .
And if someone found a strangely colored rash on their skin , these assholes think they should tell a doctor.LAST I CHECKED , people were responsible for getting their job done , and keeping their tools and workspace maintained properly .
If they ca n't pay attention to their workspace long enough to make a note of a problem they are having , then they really do n't deserve to stay employed .
If they failed to do that as a contractor or chem student , they would definitely be out on their ear , why should office work be any different ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The kind of assholes that think that contractors should report structural defects on their job site to the foreman and that chem students should report spills to the professor.
And if someone found a strangely colored rash on their skin, these assholes think they should tell a doctor.LAST I CHECKED, people were responsible for getting their job done, and keeping their tools and workspace maintained properly.
If they can't pay attention to their workspace long enough to make a note of a problem they are having, then they really don't deserve to stay employed.
If they failed to do that as a contractor or chem student, they would definitely be out on their ear, why should office work be any different?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317814</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>Mark4ST</author>
	<datestamp>1267465380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds [like Firefox's plugin install method]</p></div><p>That's kinda neat.  I thought it was allowing time for Firefox to download the plugin or somesuch.   Had me fooled, to their credit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put a timer on the buttons that wo n't let them click it for 10 seconds [ like Firefox 's plugin install method ] That 's kinda neat .
I thought it was allowing time for Firefox to download the plugin or somesuch .
Had me fooled , to their credit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put a timer on the buttons that won't let them click it for 10 seconds [like Firefox's plugin install method]That's kinda neat.
I thought it was allowing time for Firefox to download the plugin or somesuch.
Had me fooled, to their credit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315488</id>
	<title>They have no vested interest in the outcome.</title>
	<author>maillemaker</author>
	<datestamp>1267456920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.</p><p>Every day the first thing it does is pop up a dialog box that says something like, "Only run this if you trust it".</p><p>I just hit OK.</p><p>It's not my problem if it works right or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.Every day the first thing it does is pop up a dialog box that says something like , " Only run this if you trust it " .I just hit OK.It 's not my problem if it works right or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every day I have to fire up a Microsoft Access database program to clock in.Every day the first thing it does is pop up a dialog box that says something like, "Only run this if you trust it".I just hit OK.It's not my problem if it works right or not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315634</id>
	<title>Error messages are for the programmers, not users</title>
	<author>cryfreedomlove</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product. One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work. At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem. At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out. HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing. Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned. "Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it." We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon.

All because the customer ignored an error message.</p></div><p>I have two questions for you:<br>1. Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?<br>2. Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e. you) could diagnose the problem?<br> <br>It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer.  Is this startup you were working for still in business?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the late 90 's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product .
One day , about six months after they had become a customer , we get a call saying our product does not work .
At the end of a SIX HOUR support call , I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem .
At 7 : 00 AM that morning I arrive , and at about 7 : 03 AM had the problem figured out .
HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net .
Our product needed that information for some processing .
Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed , not once in the previous day 's support call did this get mentioned .
" Oh , that happens all the time , it happens with all sorts of applications , so we just ignore it .
" We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon .
All because the customer ignored an error message.I have two questions for you : 1 .
Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value ? 2 .
Why did n't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts ( i.e .
you ) could diagnose the problem ?
It 's funny that you blame this problem on your customer .
Is this startup you were working for still in business ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product.
One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work.
At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem.
At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out.
HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.
Our product needed that information for some processing.
Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned.
"Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it.
" We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon.
All because the customer ignored an error message.I have two questions for you:1.
Why does your application care about the browser ID string so much that it is unusable when there is an unexpected value?2.
Why didn't your application phone home with the higher error levels so the application experts (i.e.
you) could diagnose the problem?
It's funny that you blame this problem on your customer.
Is this startup you were working for still in business?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319606</id>
	<title>It's not the users job, it's yours.</title>
	<author>bill\_kress</author>
	<datestamp>1267472100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The user should see nothing, or as little as possible.  If your program can adapt to the error without the users input, it should (as an example, using relative paths to ensure that if your program is moved it doesn't break).</p><p>If it needs further input, it should ask for it directly (this file seems to have moved--where is it now?)</p><p>If it's an unexpected exception, always append as much of your state as you can to a log and restart.  Never clear this log.  If you cannot start, offer the user the ability to send you his log in a Very Short Dialog.  Make it trivial to send, a single button-press if possible.</p><p>Don't expect them to read a dialog and implement a solution for you.  If you know enough about what's going on in the dialog to have them fix it, fix it for them.  If you don't, don't have them guess, have them contact you (assuming it's internal company support).</p><p>Whenever you solve a problem, be sure to incorporate it back into your program so you don't see that problem again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The user should see nothing , or as little as possible .
If your program can adapt to the error without the users input , it should ( as an example , using relative paths to ensure that if your program is moved it does n't break ) .If it needs further input , it should ask for it directly ( this file seems to have moved--where is it now ?
) If it 's an unexpected exception , always append as much of your state as you can to a log and restart .
Never clear this log .
If you can not start , offer the user the ability to send you his log in a Very Short Dialog .
Make it trivial to send , a single button-press if possible.Do n't expect them to read a dialog and implement a solution for you .
If you know enough about what 's going on in the dialog to have them fix it , fix it for them .
If you do n't , do n't have them guess , have them contact you ( assuming it 's internal company support ) .Whenever you solve a problem , be sure to incorporate it back into your program so you do n't see that problem again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The user should see nothing, or as little as possible.
If your program can adapt to the error without the users input, it should (as an example, using relative paths to ensure that if your program is moved it doesn't break).If it needs further input, it should ask for it directly (this file seems to have moved--where is it now?
)If it's an unexpected exception, always append as much of your state as you can to a log and restart.
Never clear this log.
If you cannot start, offer the user the ability to send you his log in a Very Short Dialog.
Make it trivial to send, a single button-press if possible.Don't expect them to read a dialog and implement a solution for you.
If you know enough about what's going on in the dialog to have them fix it, fix it for them.
If you don't, don't have them guess, have them contact you (assuming it's internal company support).Whenever you solve a problem, be sure to incorporate it back into your program so you don't see that problem again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315798</id>
	<title>Re:Full screen</title>
	<author>Snarf You</author>
	<datestamp>1267458060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Make sure to use an 80x50 text screen mode (with a monospaced font), a background color of #000080, and a foreground color of #FFFFFF.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Make sure to use an 80x50 text screen mode ( with a monospaced font ) , a background color of # 000080 , and a foreground color of # FFFFFF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make sure to use an 80x50 text screen mode (with a monospaced font), a background color of #000080, and a foreground color of #FFFFFF.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315496</id>
	<title>a risk based approach</title>
	<author>ThaReetLad</author>
	<datestamp>1267456980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a risk based approach is required, so that users know that occasionally a message box will appear that will have serious negative consequences if they fail to take the correct action.</p><p>For example "If you don't turn around right now I'm going to smack you over the head with a baseball bat" [OK]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a risk based approach is required , so that users know that occasionally a message box will appear that will have serious negative consequences if they fail to take the correct action.For example " If you do n't turn around right now I 'm going to smack you over the head with a baseball bat " [ OK ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a risk based approach is required, so that users know that occasionally a message box will appear that will have serious negative consequences if they fail to take the correct action.For example "If you don't turn around right now I'm going to smack you over the head with a baseball bat" [OK]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31328262</id>
	<title>Haptic feedback?</title>
	<author>RichiH</author>
	<datestamp>1267533420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget. I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick (tm). And yes, you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget .
I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick ( tm ) .
And yes , you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe I can interest you in my newest USB gadget.
I decided to go with the mnemonic CrotchBrick (tm).
And yes, you can trigger it remotely and repeatedly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318376</id>
	<title>Re:not gonna happen</title>
	<author>Dynedain</author>
	<datestamp>1267467300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box. They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need. Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.</p></div></blockquote><p>Any one who actually implements this horrible idea deserves one of the deeper rings of hell.</p><p>If I was the end user, I would be <strong>livid</strong> if I was locked out of continuing to use my machine, and there would be one of 2 actions.</p><ol><li>If you lock up the app, I'm just going to kill -9 or ctrl+alt+del.</li><li>If you lock up the machine, I'm just going to cut power and reboot</li></ol><p>Neither one of these is desirable for a simple state error message, which is why it's a horrible idea. If your crappy program brings my entire computer to its knees because of an error message, don't be surprised when I start looking for alternatives real quick.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put in an error code somewhere , along with a phone number for technical support , and no way to close the box .
They 'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need .
Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.Any one who actually implements this horrible idea deserves one of the deeper rings of hell.If I was the end user , I would be livid if I was locked out of continuing to use my machine , and there would be one of 2 actions.If you lock up the app , I 'm just going to kill -9 or ctrl + alt + del.If you lock up the machine , I 'm just going to cut power and rebootNeither one of these is desirable for a simple state error message , which is why it 's a horrible idea .
If your crappy program brings my entire computer to its knees because of an error message , do n't be surprised when I start looking for alternatives real quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put in an error code somewhere, along with a phone number for technical support, and no way to close the box.
They'll call you and you can have them read off whatever you need.
Then you can tell them whatever bizarre combination of keys will actually close the box.Any one who actually implements this horrible idea deserves one of the deeper rings of hell.If I was the end user, I would be livid if I was locked out of continuing to use my machine, and there would be one of 2 actions.If you lock up the app, I'm just going to kill -9 or ctrl+alt+del.If you lock up the machine, I'm just going to cut power and rebootNeither one of these is desirable for a simple state error message, which is why it's a horrible idea.
If your crappy program brings my entire computer to its knees because of an error message, don't be surprised when I start looking for alternatives real quick.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317684</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1267464840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div><p>That's the best argument <b>for</b> ui inconsistency I've heard in a long time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>Hail Linux!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux errors are usually more useful , descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window , you have to be more careful .
; - ) That 's the best argument for ui inconsistency I 've heard in a long time ; - ) Hail Linux !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux errors are usually more useful, descriptive and since the order of the buttons change from window to window, you have to be more careful.
;-)That's the best argument for ui inconsistency I've heard in a long time ;-)Hail Linux!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318022</id>
	<title>Re:choices</title>
	<author>maxwell demon</author>
	<datestamp>1267466160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insufficient privileges.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insufficient privileges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insufficient privileges.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315426</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315954</id>
	<title>Moral blackmail</title>
	<author>itsdapead</author>
	<datestamp>1267458540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> but they might be more able to remember that they got the "puppy error" if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.</p></div><p>And a gun.
</p><p> <i>Make a note of this error message and take it to the help desk <b>or we shoot this puppy!</b> </i>

</p><p>Another option is physical violence: when you start to explain something to them and they whip out the note pad and start to write things down, a steel rule across the knuckles accompanied by a polite reminder that <i>this isn't f***ing French dictation - look at what I'm f***ing well showing you on that big square glass thing!</i>.

</p><p>Alternatively, a full <i>Clockwork Orange</i> rig with eyelid hooks and head clamps can encourage users to actually notice that things are happening on the screen when they're typing. Ludiwg Van is optional.

</p><p>The real problem is if you're dealing with older, trained touch-typists who've been subjected to techniques not a million miles from the above to <i>stop</i> them looking at their work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but they might be more able to remember that they got the " puppy error " if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.And a gun .
Make a note of this error message and take it to the help desk or we shoot this puppy !
Another option is physical violence : when you start to explain something to them and they whip out the note pad and start to write things down , a steel rule across the knuckles accompanied by a polite reminder that this is n't f * * * ing French dictation - look at what I 'm f * * * ing well showing you on that big square glass thing ! .
Alternatively , a full Clockwork Orange rig with eyelid hooks and head clamps can encourage users to actually notice that things are happening on the screen when they 're typing .
Ludiwg Van is optional .
The real problem is if you 're dealing with older , trained touch-typists who 've been subjected to techniques not a million miles from the above to stop them looking at their work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> but they might be more able to remember that they got the "puppy error" if I showed a puppy picture next to the error message.And a gun.
Make a note of this error message and take it to the help desk or we shoot this puppy!
Another option is physical violence: when you start to explain something to them and they whip out the note pad and start to write things down, a steel rule across the knuckles accompanied by a polite reminder that this isn't f***ing French dictation - look at what I'm f***ing well showing you on that big square glass thing!.
Alternatively, a full Clockwork Orange rig with eyelid hooks and head clamps can encourage users to actually notice that things are happening on the screen when they're typing.
Ludiwg Van is optional.
The real problem is if you're dealing with older, trained touch-typists who've been subjected to techniques not a million miles from the above to stop them looking at their work.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315780</id>
	<title>mcgrew for Software Emperor!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p><p>Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages. But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel. I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error <i>n</i>: there is no message for this error". Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example. If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo. This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.</p><p>I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it. Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.</p><p>With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable. If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.</p></div><p>Yes, exactly, Praise Jesus!</p><p>Many of those "messages" to the user have absolutely no meaning to them. When I see things like "Error in Foobar::method; 0x2383FFAA, trace<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..." and the program chugs along without a problem or shuts down and restarts.</p><p>I think just how useless to the user it is. Users have gotten trained to ignore them because they have no meaning to them. </p><p>Or the other things programmers do is that they have an information message box for every little piss ant activity. I don't need to see a message box if the file has been successfully saved!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Now , if you 're talking about a programming language or programming environment , that 's different , but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages .
But even there , some efforts are lax and feebel .
I 've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n : there is no message for this error " .
Boundary conditions for common " errors " are handled poorly ; end of file , for example .
If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons , there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file , and Access returns an error in a big scary " stop " combo .
This should be there in a debug mode , but a user should n't see it -- and Access ' docs should be a lot more clear.I 'm not just talking about Microsoft , you 're all bad about it .
Well , not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing 's barely out of alpha are bad about it.With a graphics program or word processor , for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable .
If your users are getting errors , your program is poorly designed.Yes , exactly , Praise Jesus ! Many of those " messages " to the user have absolutely no meaning to them .
When I see things like " Error in Foobar : : method ; 0x2383FFAA , trace ... " and the program chugs along without a problem or shuts down and restarts.I think just how useless to the user it is .
Users have gotten trained to ignore them because they have no meaning to them .
Or the other things programmers do is that they have an information message box for every little piss ant activity .
I do n't need to see a message box if the file has been successfully saved !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.Now, if you're talking about a programming language or programming environment, that's different, but someone writing a program using your compiler/interpreter would be expected to read and understand the messages.
But even there, some efforts are lax and feebel.
I've gotten errors in MS Access that say error n: there is no message for this error".
Boundary conditions for common "errors" are handled poorly; end of file, for example.
If you make your own next/previous buttons to replace the puny little almost invisible Access buttons, there is no easy way to determming the beginning of the file, and Access returns an error in a big scary "stop" combo.
This should be there in a debug mode, but a user shouldn't see it -- and Access' docs should be a lot more clear.I'm not just talking about Microsoft, you're all bad about it.
Well, not you -- your PHBs who want it shipped yesterday when the damned thing's barely out of alpha are bad about it.With a graphics program or word processor, for an end user to see an error message is inexcusable.
If your users are getting errors, your program is poorly designed.Yes, exactly, Praise Jesus!Many of those "messages" to the user have absolutely no meaning to them.
When I see things like "Error in Foobar::method; 0x2383FFAA, trace ..." and the program chugs along without a problem or shuts down and restarts.I think just how useless to the user it is.
Users have gotten trained to ignore them because they have no meaning to them.
Or the other things programmers do is that they have an information message box for every little piss ant activity.
I don't need to see a message box if the file has been successfully saved!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315874</id>
	<title>You don't.  You prevent the situation.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't.  You take a closer look at the function provided to the user, and make very very sure to remove confusion, to accomodate the user's mental modal and workflow, and remove all spurious complexity that tunnel-visioned software engineers extravagantly tend to spray on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't .
You take a closer look at the function provided to the user , and make very very sure to remove confusion , to accomodate the user 's mental modal and workflow , and remove all spurious complexity that tunnel-visioned software engineers extravagantly tend to spray on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't.
You take a closer look at the function provided to the user, and make very very sure to remove confusion, to accomodate the user's mental modal and workflow, and remove all spurious complexity that tunnel-visioned software engineers extravagantly tend to spray on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318336</id>
	<title>Less Error Messages</title>
	<author>Carl.E.Pierre</author>
	<datestamp>1267467180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the error popups were not so frequent and identical, people might actually care when one shows up.

This of course means having stuff that breaks less...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the error popups were not so frequent and identical , people might actually care when one shows up .
This of course means having stuff that breaks less.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the error popups were not so frequent and identical, people might actually care when one shows up.
This of course means having stuff that breaks less...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320576</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>amplt1337</author>
	<datestamp>1267475880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them</i><br>Actually, I think that no one is qualified to operate an automobile who doesn't have at least a decent understanding of how most of the major systems work.  Not to mention of the physics involved in the motion of automobiles.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...but then again, I expect more of people than they usually deliver.  It might be why I'm so dissatisfied with most of humanity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive themActually , I think that no one is qualified to operate an automobile who does n't have at least a decent understanding of how most of the major systems work .
Not to mention of the physics involved in the motion of automobiles .
...but then again , I expect more of people than they usually deliver .
It might be why I 'm so dissatisfied with most of humanity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive themActually, I think that no one is qualified to operate an automobile who doesn't have at least a decent understanding of how most of the major systems work.
Not to mention of the physics involved in the motion of automobiles.
...but then again, I expect more of people than they usually deliver.
It might be why I'm so dissatisfied with most of humanity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317336</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>Savage-Rabbit</author>
	<datestamp>1267463520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text. Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.</p></div><p>What I love the most about Windows, and especially Windows Server, is the error messages that sometimes just tell you something like "Windows encountered an error while executing your task". You get no error code, there is nothing in the logs and you are left sitting there wondering which of dozens if not hundreds of things that could have gone wrong while, say... trying to activate remote administration for an IIS server, did go wrong. The least you can do, as a developer, is print what diagnostic info you can get along your exception when it ends up in your catch-all clause into the system log to give the user at least a clue of what went wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs ( at least Office 97 ) you ca n't even copy and paste the error message text .
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.What I love the most about Windows , and especially Windows Server , is the error messages that sometimes just tell you something like " Windows encountered an error while executing your task " .
You get no error code , there is nothing in the logs and you are left sitting there wondering which of dozens if not hundreds of things that could have gone wrong while , say... trying to activate remote administration for an IIS server , did go wrong .
The least you can do , as a developer , is print what diagnostic info you can get along your exception when it ends up in your catch-all clause into the system log to give the user at least a clue of what went wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is annoying is that in many Windows programs (at least Office 97) you can't even copy and paste the error message text.
Your only option is to do a screen capture of the window.What I love the most about Windows, and especially Windows Server, is the error messages that sometimes just tell you something like "Windows encountered an error while executing your task".
You get no error code, there is nothing in the logs and you are left sitting there wondering which of dozens if not hundreds of things that could have gone wrong while, say... trying to activate remote administration for an IIS server, did go wrong.
The least you can do, as a developer, is print what diagnostic info you can get along your exception when it ends up in your catch-all clause into the system log to give the user at least a clue of what went wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31332778</id>
	<title>Here's how I approach it</title>
	<author>Atrox666</author>
	<datestamp>1267557120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've used pictures before and they do work for a lot of people.<br>The approach I generally use is to think of an error message like spam. To the user it is spam..they just want to accomplish their task and most don't like the computer at all. This message is just an annoyance. So you approach it like a spammer. 1) you can scare them into reading it. I would send out a critical virus update with the title "ACTION IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID SERVICE INTERRUPTION" You do run the risk of the boy who cried wolf so use it sparingly. Much like spam the caps lock is cruise control to awesome. 2) Hook it to something they want. Give a away some new mouse pads or something for early response.<br>3) Fake authority: Have a director sign off on it and send out a message people would never read if it came from you. 4)You could try promising them a larger penis but that might be NSFW</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used pictures before and they do work for a lot of people.The approach I generally use is to think of an error message like spam .
To the user it is spam..they just want to accomplish their task and most do n't like the computer at all .
This message is just an annoyance .
So you approach it like a spammer .
1 ) you can scare them into reading it .
I would send out a critical virus update with the title " ACTION IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID SERVICE INTERRUPTION " You do run the risk of the boy who cried wolf so use it sparingly .
Much like spam the caps lock is cruise control to awesome .
2 ) Hook it to something they want .
Give a away some new mouse pads or something for early response.3 ) Fake authority : Have a director sign off on it and send out a message people would never read if it came from you .
4 ) You could try promising them a larger penis but that might be NSFW</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used pictures before and they do work for a lot of people.The approach I generally use is to think of an error message like spam.
To the user it is spam..they just want to accomplish their task and most don't like the computer at all.
This message is just an annoyance.
So you approach it like a spammer.
1) you can scare them into reading it.
I would send out a critical virus update with the title "ACTION IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID SERVICE INTERRUPTION" You do run the risk of the boy who cried wolf so use it sparingly.
Much like spam the caps lock is cruise control to awesome.
2) Hook it to something they want.
Give a away some new mouse pads or something for early response.3) Fake authority: Have a director sign off on it and send out a message people would never read if it came from you.
4)You could try promising them a larger penis but that might be NSFW</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31319944</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267473360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When the "/" button is clicked, disable the "0" button.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When the " / " button is clicked , disable the " 0 " button .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When the "/" button is clicked, disable the "0" button.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318252</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267466820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends on what your goal is.</p><p>If your goal is to get the user to remember what the error was when they call you, then yes a memorable image instead of text would be very helpful.  If you could make it move, make noise or otherwise attract attention even better.  Also if you could make the error box persist for some small period of time -- say 3-5 seconds regardless of button click that would also help.</p><p>Most users don't read error messages because the message really isn't aimed at them.  Even if they were to read it, they would not be likely to understand its meaning.</p><p>I think it is a very good idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on what your goal is.If your goal is to get the user to remember what the error was when they call you , then yes a memorable image instead of text would be very helpful .
If you could make it move , make noise or otherwise attract attention even better .
Also if you could make the error box persist for some small period of time -- say 3-5 seconds regardless of button click that would also help.Most users do n't read error messages because the message really is n't aimed at them .
Even if they were to read it , they would not be likely to understand its meaning.I think it is a very good idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on what your goal is.If your goal is to get the user to remember what the error was when they call you, then yes a memorable image instead of text would be very helpful.
If you could make it move, make noise or otherwise attract attention even better.
Also if you could make the error box persist for some small period of time -- say 3-5 seconds regardless of button click that would also help.Most users don't read error messages because the message really isn't aimed at them.
Even if they were to read it, they would not be likely to understand its meaning.I think it is a very good idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</id>
	<title>This is a sore subject with me because it's true..</title>
	<author>ip\_freely\_2000</author>
	<datestamp>1267456380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product. One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work. At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem. At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out. HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net. Our product needed that information for some processing. Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned. "Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it." We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon.

All because the customer ignored an error message.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the late 90 's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product .
One day , about six months after they had become a customer , we get a call saying our product does not work .
At the end of a SIX HOUR support call , I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem .
At 7 : 00 AM that morning I arrive , and at about 7 : 03 AM had the problem figured out .
HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net .
Our product needed that information for some processing .
Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed , not once in the previous day 's support call did this get mentioned .
" Oh , that happens all the time , it happens with all sorts of applications , so we just ignore it .
" We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon .
All because the customer ignored an error message .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the late 90's our startup had HP as a customer for a new on-line product.
One day, about six months after they had become a customer, we get a call saying our product does not work.
At the end of a SIX HOUR support call, I got on a plane for a cross-country flight because we just could not duplicate or figure out the problem.
At 7:00 AM that morning I arrive, and at about 7:03 AM had the problem figured out.
HP had recently made a change to their nework removing the browser ID string when employees were surfing the net.
Our product needed that information for some processing.
Even though the error message was CLEARLY being displayed, not once in the previous day's support call did this get mentioned.
"Oh, that happens all the time, it happens with all sorts of applications, so we just ignore it.
" We had a fix in place by 10 AM and I was back on a cross country flight that afternoon.
All because the customer ignored an error message.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320904</id>
	<title>Re:Make error messages that are useful</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267434000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What *really* bothers me is that, not only do I know what that first one means, I know how to fix it....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What * really * bothers me is that , not only do I know what that first one means , I know how to fix it... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What *really* bothers me is that, not only do I know what that first one means, I know how to fix it....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316174</id>
	<title>There's only one way:</title>
	<author>XB-70</author>
	<datestamp>1267459260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like to start with Green Eggs and Ham and work up. Eventually, they stop mouthing the words and are able to read whole sentences. Put lots of pictures in the error messages so that they can be sure to understand. Maybe add  a 'treat door' in their cubicle. When they click on an error message, they get a candy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like to start with Green Eggs and Ham and work up .
Eventually , they stop mouthing the words and are able to read whole sentences .
Put lots of pictures in the error messages so that they can be sure to understand .
Maybe add a 'treat door ' in their cubicle .
When they click on an error message , they get a candy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like to start with Green Eggs and Ham and work up.
Eventually, they stop mouthing the words and are able to read whole sentences.
Put lots of pictures in the error messages so that they can be sure to understand.
Maybe add  a 'treat door' in their cubicle.
When they click on an error message, they get a candy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320534</id>
	<title>Re:If clicking the OK box makes the error go away.</title>
	<author>geekboybt</author>
	<datestamp>1267475700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, haven't we essentially solved this in the web world now? Nobody uses javascript:alert("ERROR: 45322626") anymore. Now, we take the user to where the problem can be fixed, or provide them a link directly to it. If it's a form validation problem, the fields with errors can light up and highlight the problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , have n't we essentially solved this in the web world now ?
Nobody uses javascript : alert ( " ERROR : 45322626 " ) anymore .
Now , we take the user to where the problem can be fixed , or provide them a link directly to it .
If it 's a form validation problem , the fields with errors can light up and highlight the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, haven't we essentially solved this in the web world now?
Nobody uses javascript:alert("ERROR: 45322626") anymore.
Now, we take the user to where the problem can be fixed, or provide them a link directly to it.
If it's a form validation problem, the fields with errors can light up and highlight the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318794</id>
	<title>Re:A good plot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267468860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But that's not their work. Their work is the things they were trying to do with the computer as a tool before getting interrupted. That's the thing. To you, a computer may be the center of what you do. To them, it's just a tool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But that 's not their work .
Their work is the things they were trying to do with the computer as a tool before getting interrupted .
That 's the thing .
To you , a computer may be the center of what you do .
To them , it 's just a tool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But that's not their work.
Their work is the things they were trying to do with the computer as a tool before getting interrupted.
That's the thing.
To you, a computer may be the center of what you do.
To them, it's just a tool.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316540</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I often click through error messages for the reason snapdaart stated (Save your sanity, give up now), I am busy doing my own work. I used to carefully read error messages, but they didn't mean anything to me, an end user. My suggestion is to write clear and meaningful error messages with steps on how to correct the situation. Some programs write clear error messages, such as "Out of paper," or "Paper jam." Actually, no other clearly written messages come to mind.</p><p>In addition, I hate error messages that do not go away. For example, the "memory error at @##$\%\% - string of meaningless letters and numbers" message in Windows; once you hit OK, the message keeps re-appearing. I have to reboot the computer and I have to reboot during the second after I hit OK and before the next error message appears. Who thought that was a good idea?</p><p>We computer users are fast learners. We have learned that error messages are useless, meaningless, and most of time, dismissable. We have learned to ignore them for our sanity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I often click through error messages for the reason snapdaart stated ( Save your sanity , give up now ) , I am busy doing my own work .
I used to carefully read error messages , but they did n't mean anything to me , an end user .
My suggestion is to write clear and meaningful error messages with steps on how to correct the situation .
Some programs write clear error messages , such as " Out of paper , " or " Paper jam .
" Actually , no other clearly written messages come to mind.In addition , I hate error messages that do not go away .
For example , the " memory error at @ # # $ \ % \ % - string of meaningless letters and numbers " message in Windows ; once you hit OK , the message keeps re-appearing .
I have to reboot the computer and I have to reboot during the second after I hit OK and before the next error message appears .
Who thought that was a good idea ? We computer users are fast learners .
We have learned that error messages are useless , meaningless , and most of time , dismissable .
We have learned to ignore them for our sanity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I often click through error messages for the reason snapdaart stated (Save your sanity, give up now), I am busy doing my own work.
I used to carefully read error messages, but they didn't mean anything to me, an end user.
My suggestion is to write clear and meaningful error messages with steps on how to correct the situation.
Some programs write clear error messages, such as "Out of paper," or "Paper jam.
" Actually, no other clearly written messages come to mind.In addition, I hate error messages that do not go away.
For example, the "memory error at @##$\%\% - string of meaningless letters and numbers" message in Windows; once you hit OK, the message keeps re-appearing.
I have to reboot the computer and I have to reboot during the second after I hit OK and before the next error message appears.
Who thought that was a good idea?We computer users are fast learners.
We have learned that error messages are useless, meaningless, and most of time, dismissable.
We have learned to ignore them for our sanity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317122</id>
	<title>make the read for comprehension</title>
	<author>fuzzylollipop</author>
	<datestamp>1267462740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>make the buttons dependent on them actually reading the message and having to answer a question that shows they read the text to get to the next screen. Then they have to click the correct button to get past the alert. Be sure and move the button around position wise so they don't just click the rightmost button everytime.</htmltext>
<tokenext>make the buttons dependent on them actually reading the message and having to answer a question that shows they read the text to get to the next screen .
Then they have to click the correct button to get past the alert .
Be sure and move the button around position wise so they do n't just click the rightmost button everytime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>make the buttons dependent on them actually reading the message and having to answer a question that shows they read the text to get to the next screen.
Then they have to click the correct button to get past the alert.
Be sure and move the button around position wise so they don't just click the rightmost button everytime.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320130</id>
	<title>Re:Make others remember</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267474080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In college... I remember having a fake browser icon that randomly took over the computer and displayed a fake desktop with porn in a browser window with LOUD sounds (which nobody noticed the 1st browsers couldn't play sounds on a webpage like that.)</p><p>I stuck it in the computer lab. It was a riot! It was all I could do to not bust out laughing.</p><p>Some people knew how to reboot; others tried to cover the speakers and turn off the monitor... Some would loudly defend themselves to others saying it wasn't me! I didn't do it! It must be that guy! he was on here last!<br>Often the IT kid would go over (often asked by the victim) and by that time the app stopped and everything was back to normal.  They'd open the app to repeat it-- and it never did it for them it just opened netscape. Took a while until they figured it out. The trick was having it be 1/20 or so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In college... I remember having a fake browser icon that randomly took over the computer and displayed a fake desktop with porn in a browser window with LOUD sounds ( which nobody noticed the 1st browsers could n't play sounds on a webpage like that .
) I stuck it in the computer lab .
It was a riot !
It was all I could do to not bust out laughing.Some people knew how to reboot ; others tried to cover the speakers and turn off the monitor... Some would loudly defend themselves to others saying it was n't me !
I did n't do it !
It must be that guy !
he was on here last ! Often the IT kid would go over ( often asked by the victim ) and by that time the app stopped and everything was back to normal .
They 'd open the app to repeat it-- and it never did it for them it just opened netscape .
Took a while until they figured it out .
The trick was having it be 1/20 or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In college... I remember having a fake browser icon that randomly took over the computer and displayed a fake desktop with porn in a browser window with LOUD sounds (which nobody noticed the 1st browsers couldn't play sounds on a webpage like that.
)I stuck it in the computer lab.
It was a riot!
It was all I could do to not bust out laughing.Some people knew how to reboot; others tried to cover the speakers and turn off the monitor... Some would loudly defend themselves to others saying it wasn't me!
I didn't do it!
It must be that guy!
he was on here last!Often the IT kid would go over (often asked by the victim) and by that time the app stopped and everything was back to normal.
They'd open the app to repeat it-- and it never did it for them it just opened netscape.
Took a while until they figured it out.
The trick was having it be 1/20 or so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315268</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316566</id>
	<title>Re:Save your sanity, give up now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267460760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No kidding.</p><p>I'm an end user, not a programmer.  When the stuff I work on breaks, I get called and someone gives a vague description of what they want me to think they were doing when things broke and a demand that things be fixed -- and that's often a lot more expensive and time consuming that recompiling.  The error messages my equipment sends to the user: the machine stops, maybe makes a grinding noise or some other weird sound and hopefully shuts off before the smoke escapes.  My equipment can't send me an email, can't keep a log file - except for metal shavings and other forensics.  And some keyboard puncher whose equipment can send them an email, can keep a log file, wants me to keep track of their error messages for their project for them so they can troubleshoot it better?  WTF?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No kidding.I 'm an end user , not a programmer .
When the stuff I work on breaks , I get called and someone gives a vague description of what they want me to think they were doing when things broke and a demand that things be fixed -- and that 's often a lot more expensive and time consuming that recompiling .
The error messages my equipment sends to the user : the machine stops , maybe makes a grinding noise or some other weird sound and hopefully shuts off before the smoke escapes .
My equipment ca n't send me an email , ca n't keep a log file - except for metal shavings and other forensics .
And some keyboard puncher whose equipment can send them an email , can keep a log file , wants me to keep track of their error messages for their project for them so they can troubleshoot it better ?
WTF ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No kidding.I'm an end user, not a programmer.
When the stuff I work on breaks, I get called and someone gives a vague description of what they want me to think they were doing when things broke and a demand that things be fixed -- and that's often a lot more expensive and time consuming that recompiling.
The error messages my equipment sends to the user: the machine stops, maybe makes a grinding noise or some other weird sound and hopefully shuts off before the smoke escapes.
My equipment can't send me an email, can't keep a log file - except for metal shavings and other forensics.
And some keyboard puncher whose equipment can send them an email, can keep a log file, wants me to keep track of their error messages for their project for them so they can troubleshoot it better?
WTF?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317534</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Captain Spam</author>
	<datestamp>1267464240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>There should be no errors. Period. Your program should not allow errors.</p></div><p>If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.</p></div><p>Well, obviously, <i>your program should not allow errors</i>.  Ergo, the interface should, in that case, be a slider that represents the entire range of real numbers, including decimals, positive and negative, except zero.  Duh.</p><p>What's that, you say?  You're working with complex numbers?  Well, geez, make the slider include the complex plane, too!  Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be no errors .
Period. Your program should not allow errors.If i 'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.Well , obviously , your program should not allow errors .
Ergo , the interface should , in that case , be a slider that represents the entire range of real numbers , including decimals , positive and negative , except zero .
Duh.What 's that , you say ?
You 're working with complex numbers ?
Well , geez , make the slider include the complex plane , too !
Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be no errors.
Period. Your program should not allow errors.If i'm writing a calculator and the user types/clicks 4 / 0 - tell me what behavior is appropriate.Well, obviously, your program should not allow errors.
Ergo, the interface should, in that case, be a slider that represents the entire range of real numbers, including decimals, positive and negative, except zero.
Duh.What's that, you say?
You're working with complex numbers?
Well, geez, make the slider include the complex plane, too!
Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316460</id>
	<title>Full Screen Stop</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1267460220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have had similar problems, and have found that</p><p>- a full screen fatal error message and</p><p>- a stop of all activity</p><p>is necessary to get most people to pay attention to an error message. Otherwise, people will ignore even the most dire warnings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have had similar problems , and have found that- a full screen fatal error message and- a stop of all activityis necessary to get most people to pay attention to an error message .
Otherwise , people will ignore even the most dire warnings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have had similar problems, and have found that- a full screen fatal error message and- a stop of all activityis necessary to get most people to pay attention to an error message.
Otherwise, people will ignore even the most dire warnings.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318014</id>
	<title>Social Engineering...</title>
	<author>bwcbwc</author>
	<datestamp>1267466100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Take a hint from spam and malware writers. Instead of putting up a boring error message, put up big flashing letters that say "YOU ARE THE 1,000,000th user of this system. Click here to claim your prize!!!"<br><br>Another option is to make your error boxes "unclickable" like that old prank software that would move the message box every time you moved over the "No" button, so you were forced to click "Yes". Make the "OK" button unclickable for your error messages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a hint from spam and malware writers .
Instead of putting up a boring error message , put up big flashing letters that say " YOU ARE THE 1,000,000th user of this system .
Click here to claim your prize ! ! !
" Another option is to make your error boxes " unclickable " like that old prank software that would move the message box every time you moved over the " No " button , so you were forced to click " Yes " .
Make the " OK " button unclickable for your error messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a hint from spam and malware writers.
Instead of putting up a boring error message, put up big flashing letters that say "YOU ARE THE 1,000,000th user of this system.
Click here to claim your prize!!!
"Another option is to make your error boxes "unclickable" like that old prank software that would move the message box every time you moved over the "No" button, so you were forced to click "Yes".
Make the "OK" button unclickable for your error messages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315772</id>
	<title>Require User Intervention</title>
	<author>ArhcAngel</author>
	<datestamp>1267458000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make your error messages interactive. Hide a code in the message itself and make it so the user must find the code and key it in to continue. Perhaps let the code be written out numbers (one, two, three) spattered throughout the message in random locations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make your error messages interactive .
Hide a code in the message itself and make it so the user must find the code and key it in to continue .
Perhaps let the code be written out numbers ( one , two , three ) spattered throughout the message in random locations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make your error messages interactive.
Hide a code in the message itself and make it so the user must find the code and key it in to continue.
Perhaps let the code be written out numbers (one, two, three) spattered throughout the message in random locations.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315500</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI? What should happen to you then?<br><br>I hope the AIs or "Posthumans" keep us around as well-cared-for pets because they are fond of us (or think we're cute). I doubt that enslaving and mistreating the first few AIs is going to help improve the odds of that scenario happening.<br><br>Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).<br><br>I'm personally guilty of treating ignorant/stupid people badly every now and then. But I suggest that it's not something one should aspire to do, and it's something that you have to fight against.<br><br>Many people think they're very intelligent. But high intelligence is overrated.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI ?
What should happen to you then ? I hope the AIs or " Posthumans " keep us around as well-cared-for pets because they are fond of us ( or think we 're cute ) .
I doubt that enslaving and mistreating the first few AIs is going to help improve the odds of that scenario happening.Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it 's OK to mistreat them ( see the electroshock proponents above ) .I 'm personally guilty of treating ignorant/stupid people badly every now and then .
But I suggest that it 's not something one should aspire to do , and it 's something that you have to fight against.Many people think they 're very intelligent .
But high intelligence is overrated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if eventually any job you can do can be done better and more cheaply by an AI?
What should happen to you then?I hope the AIs or "Posthumans" keep us around as well-cared-for pets because they are fond of us (or think we're cute).
I doubt that enslaving and mistreating the first few AIs is going to help improve the odds of that scenario happening.Or setting a precedent that just because some people are stupid/ignorant it's OK to mistreat them (see the electroshock proponents above).I'm personally guilty of treating ignorant/stupid people badly every now and then.
But I suggest that it's not something one should aspire to do, and it's something that you have to fight against.Many people think they're very intelligent.
But high intelligence is overrated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315746</id>
	<title>Re:This is a sore subject with me because it's tru</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267457940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like *you* have a problem communicating with these people by not making it dead obvious that you need to know about anything that they encounter during the process.<br> <br>Ultimately, end users don't know what's important and what isn't. You need to point this out to them with no question of what you need to know.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like * you * have a problem communicating with these people by not making it dead obvious that you need to know about anything that they encounter during the process .
Ultimately , end users do n't know what 's important and what is n't .
You need to point this out to them with no question of what you need to know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like *you* have a problem communicating with these people by not making it dead obvious that you need to know about anything that they encounter during the process.
Ultimately, end users don't know what's important and what isn't.
You need to point this out to them with no question of what you need to know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316896</id>
	<title>You don't.</title>
	<author>VinylPusher</author>
	<datestamp>1267461900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Users will<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/not/ read error messages. Office workers are the worst for this.</p><p>We use a horrible bespoke system which I've somehow managed to end up supporting. Most of the error messages which pop up are cryptic, internally specific, standard Delphi error messages. That's if we even get to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/see/ an error. Sometimes the app just silently fails and you have to know that clicking on another action button will allow you to switch away from the failed task.</p><p>If you want users to act appropriately in an error situation, it's best to (and this is in order of preference, highest first): -</p><p>1) Not end up in an error situation.<br>2) Make it very difficult for users to create an error situation.<br>3) Inline-highlight any user entry which may cause an error situation, before the commit a task. Potentially with a little tooltip<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/warning/ (not a blocking error dialog!).<br>4) Suggest alternate values for user-input where they have entered an erroneous value. At least provide an example.<br>5) Show a very context-specific message which explains the error. Provide a link to the help text.</p><p>The main idea is to avoid interrupting the user's train of thought whilst they are (trying) to use your software. If every error results in a 'blah blah blah, click OK to continue' dialog, it pisses people off.</p><p>Users see errors as the fault of the software first. I suppose what we're talking about here is interface etiquette. You shouldn't insult users or make them feel stupid. The best example I can think of is in Google's "did you mean<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....?" interaction. It doesn't get more elegant than that.</p><p>If you absolutely must interrupt the user's workflow due to an uncorrectible error, tell them exactly what happened, suggest how it can be fixed and make the thing easy to read. Tall, narrow window is easier to read than wide, short window full of error text. Highlight very clearly the steps the user needs to take to get rid of your error message and continue on with their work. Most likely, this is the only text they will read. How many times have you heard "how do I get rid of this?" or "something came up on the screen and I don't know what to do"?</p><p>OK, granted, some people are still so blind/dumb that they won't take any notice. Those people will either call their tech, or at least nudge someone in the same office 'who knows a bit about computer stuff' to come over and take a look.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Users will /not/ read error messages .
Office workers are the worst for this.We use a horrible bespoke system which I 've somehow managed to end up supporting .
Most of the error messages which pop up are cryptic , internally specific , standard Delphi error messages .
That 's if we even get to /see/ an error .
Sometimes the app just silently fails and you have to know that clicking on another action button will allow you to switch away from the failed task.If you want users to act appropriately in an error situation , it 's best to ( and this is in order of preference , highest first ) : -1 ) Not end up in an error situation.2 ) Make it very difficult for users to create an error situation.3 ) Inline-highlight any user entry which may cause an error situation , before the commit a task .
Potentially with a little tooltip /warning/ ( not a blocking error dialog !
) .4 ) Suggest alternate values for user-input where they have entered an erroneous value .
At least provide an example.5 ) Show a very context-specific message which explains the error .
Provide a link to the help text.The main idea is to avoid interrupting the user 's train of thought whilst they are ( trying ) to use your software .
If every error results in a 'blah blah blah , click OK to continue ' dialog , it pisses people off.Users see errors as the fault of the software first .
I suppose what we 're talking about here is interface etiquette .
You should n't insult users or make them feel stupid .
The best example I can think of is in Google 's " did you mean .... ?
" interaction .
It does n't get more elegant than that.If you absolutely must interrupt the user 's workflow due to an uncorrectible error , tell them exactly what happened , suggest how it can be fixed and make the thing easy to read .
Tall , narrow window is easier to read than wide , short window full of error text .
Highlight very clearly the steps the user needs to take to get rid of your error message and continue on with their work .
Most likely , this is the only text they will read .
How many times have you heard " how do I get rid of this ?
" or " something came up on the screen and I do n't know what to do " ? OK , granted , some people are still so blind/dumb that they wo n't take any notice .
Those people will either call their tech , or at least nudge someone in the same office 'who knows a bit about computer stuff ' to come over and take a look .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Users will /not/ read error messages.
Office workers are the worst for this.We use a horrible bespoke system which I've somehow managed to end up supporting.
Most of the error messages which pop up are cryptic, internally specific, standard Delphi error messages.
That's if we even get to /see/ an error.
Sometimes the app just silently fails and you have to know that clicking on another action button will allow you to switch away from the failed task.If you want users to act appropriately in an error situation, it's best to (and this is in order of preference, highest first): -1) Not end up in an error situation.2) Make it very difficult for users to create an error situation.3) Inline-highlight any user entry which may cause an error situation, before the commit a task.
Potentially with a little tooltip /warning/ (not a blocking error dialog!
).4) Suggest alternate values for user-input where they have entered an erroneous value.
At least provide an example.5) Show a very context-specific message which explains the error.
Provide a link to the help text.The main idea is to avoid interrupting the user's train of thought whilst they are (trying) to use your software.
If every error results in a 'blah blah blah, click OK to continue' dialog, it pisses people off.Users see errors as the fault of the software first.
I suppose what we're talking about here is interface etiquette.
You shouldn't insult users or make them feel stupid.
The best example I can think of is in Google's "did you mean ....?
" interaction.
It doesn't get more elegant than that.If you absolutely must interrupt the user's workflow due to an uncorrectible error, tell them exactly what happened, suggest how it can be fixed and make the thing easy to read.
Tall, narrow window is easier to read than wide, short window full of error text.
Highlight very clearly the steps the user needs to take to get rid of your error message and continue on with their work.
Most likely, this is the only text they will read.
How many times have you heard "how do I get rid of this?
" or "something came up on the screen and I don't know what to do"?OK, granted, some people are still so blind/dumb that they won't take any notice.
Those people will either call their tech, or at least nudge someone in the same office 'who knows a bit about computer stuff' to come over and take a look.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315866</id>
	<title>Imagine you're an auto mechanic</title>
	<author>chrysrobyn</author>
	<datestamp>1267458300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine you're Click and Clack.  Someone calls you up and tries to reproduce a sound.  As if by magic, you can deduce the problem, how difficult and expensive the solution is, and who's qualified to perform the work.  Now imagine you have full control over every sound the engine makes and can in fact make error sounds to make this job easier.</p><p>It seems to me that you have two choices for volume ("Was it quiet? Was it loud?"), a few tone questions ("Was it high pitched, low pitched or somewhere in between") and even a few frequency ones ("Was it intermittant?  Fast or slow? Was it constant?").  I'm sure that, if you have more variables than that, you can toss in a few more permutations.  Just make sure they're easy to pick out.</p><p>Also, force the error message not to be dismissed in less than two full minutes with your phone number on the screen.</p><p>Of course, having every error message drop some key logs into a database you can query might be a good idea too.  Then you can post-process it with a few scripts and <i>call them</i> with the solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine you 're Click and Clack .
Someone calls you up and tries to reproduce a sound .
As if by magic , you can deduce the problem , how difficult and expensive the solution is , and who 's qualified to perform the work .
Now imagine you have full control over every sound the engine makes and can in fact make error sounds to make this job easier.It seems to me that you have two choices for volume ( " Was it quiet ?
Was it loud ?
" ) , a few tone questions ( " Was it high pitched , low pitched or somewhere in between " ) and even a few frequency ones ( " Was it intermittant ?
Fast or slow ?
Was it constant ? " ) .
I 'm sure that , if you have more variables than that , you can toss in a few more permutations .
Just make sure they 're easy to pick out.Also , force the error message not to be dismissed in less than two full minutes with your phone number on the screen.Of course , having every error message drop some key logs into a database you can query might be a good idea too .
Then you can post-process it with a few scripts and call them with the solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine you're Click and Clack.
Someone calls you up and tries to reproduce a sound.
As if by magic, you can deduce the problem, how difficult and expensive the solution is, and who's qualified to perform the work.
Now imagine you have full control over every sound the engine makes and can in fact make error sounds to make this job easier.It seems to me that you have two choices for volume ("Was it quiet?
Was it loud?
"), a few tone questions ("Was it high pitched, low pitched or somewhere in between") and even a few frequency ones ("Was it intermittant?
Fast or slow?
Was it constant?").
I'm sure that, if you have more variables than that, you can toss in a few more permutations.
Just make sure they're easy to pick out.Also, force the error message not to be dismissed in less than two full minutes with your phone number on the screen.Of course, having every error message drop some key logs into a database you can query might be a good idea too.
Then you can post-process it with a few scripts and call them with the solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316372</id>
	<title>suggestions</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1267459800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1- do away with error messages. Have suggestions instead, like "You need to initialize a data file to do that", with whatever file initialization menu you have<br>2- automate error messages: have a very easy way to send the error log to the help desk, so that at least you don't have to re-walk the user through the whole error<br>3- have a good UI that actually helps users to avoid mistakes<br>4- show them how helpful error messages are, saving them time and the humiliation of having to call support.<br>5- bill for support<br>6- train your users to handle error messages at the same time you train them to use apps<br>7- belabor that point during support calls: don't solve the problem for them, show them how they can solve it by themselves</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1- do away with error messages .
Have suggestions instead , like " You need to initialize a data file to do that " , with whatever file initialization menu you have2- automate error messages : have a very easy way to send the error log to the help desk , so that at least you do n't have to re-walk the user through the whole error3- have a good UI that actually helps users to avoid mistakes4- show them how helpful error messages are , saving them time and the humiliation of having to call support.5- bill for support6- train your users to handle error messages at the same time you train them to use apps7- belabor that point during support calls : do n't solve the problem for them , show them how they can solve it by themselves</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1- do away with error messages.
Have suggestions instead, like "You need to initialize a data file to do that", with whatever file initialization menu you have2- automate error messages: have a very easy way to send the error log to the help desk, so that at least you don't have to re-walk the user through the whole error3- have a good UI that actually helps users to avoid mistakes4- show them how helpful error messages are, saving them time and the humiliation of having to call support.5- bill for support6- train your users to handle error messages at the same time you train them to use apps7- belabor that point during support calls: don't solve the problem for them, show them how they can solve it by themselves</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31333822</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267561140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah yes, the ever practical solution to all the problems of the world: be perfect.</p><p>Hey it works for Ayn Rand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah yes , the ever practical solution to all the problems of the world : be perfect.Hey it works for Ayn Rand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah yes, the ever practical solution to all the problems of the world: be perfect.Hey it works for Ayn Rand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318350</id>
	<title>Re:Do away with them</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1267467180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in?</i></p><p>Obviously there are going to be cases where a user wil have to be informed of something, but there are simply too many error messages, which is why users ignore them. In the case of the unplugged LAN or scanner, a message "looking for network..." or "looking for scanner..." should suffice, and the user shouldn't have to click "ok" although a "cancel operation" button should be available. It should wait intil the user plugs the damned thing in or clicks cancel, and if he plugs it in the box should disappear and the program should just keep humming along.</p><p><i>let me ask you: when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard? No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?</i></p><p>The gas and temperature guages are nothing like error messages; the light that says your brakes aren't working is. But cars have mechanical parts that wear out or break, software doesn't.</p><p><i>Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing.</i></p><p>You can't expect your non-programming users to know that, and should never have the word "error" in an <i>indicational</i> message unless it is a programming language you're writing. You should strive to eliminate or at least minimize these messages. You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them, why do you expect end-users to know about programming concepts? The user of a word processor shouldn't have to know anything exept how to write and how to use that particular tool for writing.</p><p><i>They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes up</i></p><p>Again, there are <b>way too damned many dialog boxes.</b> If these were rare, users would read them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in ? Obviously there are going to be cases where a user wil have to be informed of something , but there are simply too many error messages , which is why users ignore them .
In the case of the unplugged LAN or scanner , a message " looking for network... " or " looking for scanner... " should suffice , and the user should n't have to click " ok " although a " cancel operation " button should be available .
It should wait intil the user plugs the damned thing in or clicks cancel , and if he plugs it in the box should disappear and the program should just keep humming along.let me ask you : when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard ?
No idiot lights , no oil pressure gauge , no fuel gauge , nothing but a speedometer ? The gas and temperature guages are nothing like error messages ; the light that says your brakes are n't working is .
But cars have mechanical parts that wear out or break , software does n't.Anyone who says " there should be no errors " does n't know how the word " error " is used in computing.You ca n't expect your non-programming users to know that , and should never have the word " error " in an indicational message unless it is a programming language you 're writing .
You should strive to eliminate or at least minimize these messages .
You do n't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them , why do you expect end-users to know about programming concepts ?
The user of a word processor should n't have to know anything exept how to write and how to use that particular tool for writing.They never remember they 've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes upAgain , there are way too damned many dialog boxes .
If these were rare , users would read them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what is a program supposed to do when the hardware it talks to fails or is not plugged in?Obviously there are going to be cases where a user wil have to be informed of something, but there are simply too many error messages, which is why users ignore them.
In the case of the unplugged LAN or scanner, a message "looking for network..." or "looking for scanner..." should suffice, and the user shouldn't have to click "ok" although a "cancel operation" button should be available.
It should wait intil the user plugs the damned thing in or clicks cancel, and if he plugs it in the box should disappear and the program should just keep humming along.let me ask you: when was the last time you drove a car that had no error notifications on the dashboard?
No idiot lights, no oil pressure gauge, no fuel gauge, nothing but a speedometer?The gas and temperature guages are nothing like error messages; the light that says your brakes aren't working is.
But cars have mechanical parts that wear out or break, software doesn't.Anyone who says "there should be no errors" doesn't know how the word "error" is used in computing.You can't expect your non-programming users to know that, and should never have the word "error" in an indicational message unless it is a programming language you're writing.
You should strive to eliminate or at least minimize these messages.
You don't expect a driver to be an automotive engineer or to know anything about cars except how to drive them, why do you expect end-users to know about programming concepts?
The user of a word processor shouldn't have to know anything exept how to write and how to use that particular tool for writing.They never remember they've clicked through because they are so used to simply clicking OK on any dialog that comes upAgain, there are way too damned many dialog boxes.
If these were rare, users would read them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315198</id>
	<title>Electric Shock</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Using Bluetooth to activate a transmitter in the seats of our users, we've had a 671\% increase in efficiency when helping our users due to increased "awareness" of error messages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Using Bluetooth to activate a transmitter in the seats of our users , we 've had a 671 \ % increase in efficiency when helping our users due to increased " awareness " of error messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using Bluetooth to activate a transmitter in the seats of our users, we've had a 671\% increase in efficiency when helping our users due to increased "awareness" of error messages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315638</id>
	<title>Re:choices</title>
	<author>tsergiu</author>
	<datestamp>1267457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My firstborn</htmltext>
<tokenext>My firstborn</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My firstborn</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315426</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31342358</id>
	<title>Re:Not the users fault.</title>
	<author>KiwiSurfer</author>
	<datestamp>1267611360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if the tech support can't access the log file? Say, for example, the user forgot to connect his machine to the network. In that case the tech support would be unable to access the user's machine to read the log! At the end of the day the user (like it or not) has to take responsibility for doing their bit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if the tech support ca n't access the log file ?
Say , for example , the user forgot to connect his machine to the network .
In that case the tech support would be unable to access the user 's machine to read the log !
At the end of the day the user ( like it or not ) has to take responsibility for doing their bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if the tech support can't access the log file?
Say, for example, the user forgot to connect his machine to the network.
In that case the tech support would be unable to access the user's machine to read the log!
At the end of the day the user (like it or not) has to take responsibility for doing their bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316506</id>
	<title>Why not just send the error directly to ...</title>
	<author>lorg</author>
	<datestamp>1267460460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it might get slightly better results then just showing ye old wacky error message I predict you'll get the "the what now icon in the corner? I didn't see any icon in the corner" respons. If you can implement something like this to alter the error messages why not just have it send the error message directly to the helpdesk "[user] has experienced the following error<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. blahblah" and a full (or as full as you wish) report enclosed. Problem is helpdesk might get utterly flooded and stop reading the error messages or just pipe them all of to dev/nul.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it might get slightly better results then just showing ye old wacky error message I predict you 'll get the " the what now icon in the corner ?
I did n't see any icon in the corner " respons .
If you can implement something like this to alter the error messages why not just have it send the error message directly to the helpdesk " [ user ] has experienced the following error .. blahblah " and a full ( or as full as you wish ) report enclosed .
Problem is helpdesk might get utterly flooded and stop reading the error messages or just pipe them all of to dev/nul .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it might get slightly better results then just showing ye old wacky error message I predict you'll get the "the what now icon in the corner?
I didn't see any icon in the corner" respons.
If you can implement something like this to alter the error messages why not just have it send the error message directly to the helpdesk "[user] has experienced the following error .. blahblah" and a full (or as full as you wish) report enclosed.
Problem is helpdesk might get utterly flooded and stop reading the error messages or just pipe them all of to dev/nul.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315404</id>
	<title>Users are too impatient to read</title>
	<author>TUOggy</author>
	<datestamp>1267456560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People will never read their error messages.  You can make the windows as irritating as possible by forcing them to wait 3 seconds before they can press OK, but they'll just sit there and rapidly click on the grayed out OK button until it becomes available.  If you really want to see the text of an error message, force a screenshot when an error occurs.  Then you can see not only what the error was, but also how much other crap they're doing that they're not supposed to be doing.  Between that and the logs, you should be good.
<p>
Or you could have them enter a unique code before allowing the OK button to be pressed.  That way they have to call TS to get the code.  That would guarantee that you would get the message.  The problem is that you would get so many extra calls that you wouldn't be able to do anything else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People will never read their error messages .
You can make the windows as irritating as possible by forcing them to wait 3 seconds before they can press OK , but they 'll just sit there and rapidly click on the grayed out OK button until it becomes available .
If you really want to see the text of an error message , force a screenshot when an error occurs .
Then you can see not only what the error was , but also how much other crap they 're doing that they 're not supposed to be doing .
Between that and the logs , you should be good .
Or you could have them enter a unique code before allowing the OK button to be pressed .
That way they have to call TS to get the code .
That would guarantee that you would get the message .
The problem is that you would get so many extra calls that you would n't be able to do anything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People will never read their error messages.
You can make the windows as irritating as possible by forcing them to wait 3 seconds before they can press OK, but they'll just sit there and rapidly click on the grayed out OK button until it becomes available.
If you really want to see the text of an error message, force a screenshot when an error occurs.
Then you can see not only what the error was, but also how much other crap they're doing that they're not supposed to be doing.
Between that and the logs, you should be good.
Or you could have them enter a unique code before allowing the OK button to be pressed.
That way they have to call TS to get the code.
That would guarantee that you would get the message.
The problem is that you would get so many extra calls that you wouldn't be able to do anything else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316728</id>
	<title>Re:Waste of time.</title>
	<author>mordejai</author>
	<datestamp>1267461300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I couldn't agree more. And yes, 0-click is the only way to make sure you get the information.</p><p>When I worked for Verizon, I implemented and maintained a critical provisioning web application.<br>Whenever an error occurred, it sent an email containing the full stack trace, the server answering the request, the exact input leading to the error, the application user, etc.<br>So, if we got an email from a user saying "the app is broken, boo!", we had all the information we needed to reproduce and fix the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't agree more .
And yes , 0-click is the only way to make sure you get the information.When I worked for Verizon , I implemented and maintained a critical provisioning web application.Whenever an error occurred , it sent an email containing the full stack trace , the server answering the request , the exact input leading to the error , the application user , etc.So , if we got an email from a user saying " the app is broken , boo !
" , we had all the information we needed to reproduce and fix the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't agree more.
And yes, 0-click is the only way to make sure you get the information.When I worked for Verizon, I implemented and maintained a critical provisioning web application.Whenever an error occurred, it sent an email containing the full stack trace, the server answering the request, the exact input leading to the error, the application user, etc.So, if we got an email from a user saying "the app is broken, boo!
", we had all the information we needed to reproduce and fix the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31318978</id>
	<title>Good luck</title>
	<author>taustin</author>
	<datestamp>1267469520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have occasionally gotten my users to call me before clearing out the error message on the screen. But these day, I don't bother, because most of my users literally cannot read the error message off the screen while on the phone with me. Because "that's computer stuff, and I don't know anything about that."</p><p>Lord, how I wish I were exaggerating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have occasionally gotten my users to call me before clearing out the error message on the screen .
But these day , I do n't bother , because most of my users literally can not read the error message off the screen while on the phone with me .
Because " that 's computer stuff , and I do n't know anything about that .
" Lord , how I wish I were exaggerating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have occasionally gotten my users to call me before clearing out the error message on the screen.
But these day, I don't bother, because most of my users literally cannot read the error message off the screen while on the phone with me.
Because "that's computer stuff, and I don't know anything about that.
"Lord, how I wish I were exaggerating.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316582</id>
	<title>Re:Automation</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267460820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pff. Two lines of Perl should suffice.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pff .
Two lines of Perl should suffice .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pff.
Two lines of Perl should suffice.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322344</id>
	<title>Re:FTFY</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267439100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Emacs or Vi<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Emacs or Vi : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Emacs or Vi :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322120</id>
	<title>Re:I call it wack-a-mole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267438440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The order of the buttons changing isn't on purpose, but rather a lack of a formalized design guide.</p><p>I think Linux users are just a little more likely to have encountered one of these other blind users in their travels, and refuse to be one themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The order of the buttons changing is n't on purpose , but rather a lack of a formalized design guide.I think Linux users are just a little more likely to have encountered one of these other blind users in their travels , and refuse to be one themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The order of the buttons changing isn't on purpose, but rather a lack of a formalized design guide.I think Linux users are just a little more likely to have encountered one of these other blind users in their travels, and refuse to be one themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315936</id>
	<title>Simple solution</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1267458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't produce an error message and expect the users to remember it.  1.)  Write all error to log file.  2.)  Keep a running log file of recent activity, so when there is an error you can see what led up to it.  3.)  Present a simple messages.  Worst case should be something like:  "An error has occured, contact Engineering staff for support."  </p><p>I try to design my apps so that users cannot progress to the next stage unless all the required fields are filled in, correctly.  I also put a colored frowny face on some error messages -- the user <i>might</i> remember the color, which is a clue to the cause -- however, don't rely on that.  Rely on the logs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't produce an error message and expect the users to remember it .
1. ) Write all error to log file .
2. ) Keep a running log file of recent activity , so when there is an error you can see what led up to it .
3. ) Present a simple messages .
Worst case should be something like : " An error has occured , contact Engineering staff for support .
" I try to design my apps so that users can not progress to the next stage unless all the required fields are filled in , correctly .
I also put a colored frowny face on some error messages -- the user might remember the color , which is a clue to the cause -- however , do n't rely on that .
Rely on the logs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't produce an error message and expect the users to remember it.
1.)  Write all error to log file.
2.)  Keep a running log file of recent activity, so when there is an error you can see what led up to it.
3.)  Present a simple messages.
Worst case should be something like:  "An error has occured, contact Engineering staff for support.
"  I try to design my apps so that users cannot progress to the next stage unless all the required fields are filled in, correctly.
I also put a colored frowny face on some error messages -- the user might remember the color, which is a clue to the cause -- however, don't rely on that.
Rely on the logs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31316916</id>
	<title>Learn a thing from spam and scareware</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1267462020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone reads those. Everyone. You could flash people with strobe lights and not get more attention than scareware and spam gets. So why not copy their behaviour?</p><p>Scare the user into reading your error message. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you close his bank account and make his monitor explode if he does not read carefully what you want to tell him and follow the orders.</p><p>It seems to work...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone reads those .
Everyone. You could flash people with strobe lights and not get more attention than scareware and spam gets .
So why not copy their behaviour ? Scare the user into reading your error message .
Tell him in no uncertain terms that you close his bank account and make his monitor explode if he does not read carefully what you want to tell him and follow the orders.It seems to work.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone reads those.
Everyone. You could flash people with strobe lights and not get more attention than scareware and spam gets.
So why not copy their behaviour?Scare the user into reading your error message.
Tell him in no uncertain terms that you close his bank account and make his monitor explode if he does not read carefully what you want to tell him and follow the orders.It seems to work...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31320954</id>
	<title>My Favorite?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267434120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hate it when someone calls their computer a 'cpu'. A CPU!!! That's like calling
your car an engine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate it when someone calls their computer a 'cpu' .
A CPU ! ! !
That 's like calling your car an engine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate it when someone calls their computer a 'cpu'.
A CPU!!!
That's like calling
your car an engine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31322292</id>
	<title>Re:Oh, I dunno, try making the error messages usef</title>
	<author>rdavidson3</author>
	<datestamp>1267438980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.</p></div><p>Since we're spreading blame, then don't forget the lazy QA department for not testing that, and the lazy BA for not writing sufficient specs, or the data architect who thinks that a CustomerID should only be an INT.  <br> <br>

I believe that the root of these issues arises from poor specs that the developer and QA consume to produce code / unit tests that ultimately fail in the end product.  I've worked for many companies throughout my career and almost every time this issue occurs it can be pointed to the BA producing the original spec.  Most times the BA is over worked / inexperienced and management isn't interested in spending more time on the front of projects to get things done right, or the end users don't want to invest time in working with the BA to get things right.  I've seen it all.<br> <br>

Lots of blame to go around, just don't pile it on the developers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.Since we 're spreading blame , then do n't forget the lazy QA department for not testing that , and the lazy BA for not writing sufficient specs , or the data architect who thinks that a CustomerID should only be an INT .
I believe that the root of these issues arises from poor specs that the developer and QA consume to produce code / unit tests that ultimately fail in the end product .
I 've worked for many companies throughout my career and almost every time this issue occurs it can be pointed to the BA producing the original spec .
Most times the BA is over worked / inexperienced and management is n't interested in spending more time on the front of projects to get things done right , or the end users do n't want to invest time in working with the BA to get things right .
I 've seen it all .
Lots of blame to go around , just do n't pile it on the developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The blame lies with LAZY system designers and LAZY developers.Since we're spreading blame, then don't forget the lazy QA department for not testing that, and the lazy BA for not writing sufficient specs, or the data architect who thinks that a CustomerID should only be an INT.
I believe that the root of these issues arises from poor specs that the developer and QA consume to produce code / unit tests that ultimately fail in the end product.
I've worked for many companies throughout my career and almost every time this issue occurs it can be pointed to the BA producing the original spec.
Most times the BA is over worked / inexperienced and management isn't interested in spending more time on the front of projects to get things done right, or the end users don't want to invest time in working with the BA to get things right.
I've seen it all.
Lots of blame to go around, just don't pile it on the developers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31317494</id>
	<title>Re:Firefox plugin install method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267464120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; but ultimately you can't fix stupid.</p><p>Damned straight. If you make stupidity painless, all you do is encourage stupidity. Unfortunately in cases like this the poor helpdesk geek is the one experiencing most of the pain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; but ultimately you ca n't fix stupid.Damned straight .
If you make stupidity painless , all you do is encourage stupidity .
Unfortunately in cases like this the poor helpdesk geek is the one experiencing most of the pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; but ultimately you can't fix stupid.Damned straight.
If you make stupidity painless, all you do is encourage stupidity.
Unfortunately in cases like this the poor helpdesk geek is the one experiencing most of the pain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_132219.31315220</parent>
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