<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_23_2210224</id>
	<title>Avoiding a Digital Dark Age</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1266925740000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>al0ha writes to recommend a worthwhile piece up at American Scientist on the <a href="http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/2010/3/avoiding-a-digital-dark-age">problems of archiving and data preservation</a> in an age where all data are stored digitally. <i>"It seems unavoidable that most of the data in our future will be digital, so it behooves us to understand how to manage and preserve digital data so we can avoid what some have called the 'digital dark age.' This is the idea &mdash; or fear! &mdash; that if we cannot learn to explicitly save our digital data, we will lose that data and, with it, the record that future generations might use to remember and understand us. ... Unlike the many venerable institutions that have for centuries refined their techniques for preserving analog data on clay, stone, ceramic or paper, we have no corresponding reservoir of historical wisdom to teach us how to save our digital data. That does not mean there is nothing to learn from the past, only that we must work a little harder to find it."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>al0ha writes to recommend a worthwhile piece up at American Scientist on the problems of archiving and data preservation in an age where all data are stored digitally .
" It seems unavoidable that most of the data in our future will be digital , so it behooves us to understand how to manage and preserve digital data so we can avoid what some have called the 'digital dark age .
' This is the idea    or fear !
   that if we can not learn to explicitly save our digital data , we will lose that data and , with it , the record that future generations might use to remember and understand us .
... Unlike the many venerable institutions that have for centuries refined their techniques for preserving analog data on clay , stone , ceramic or paper , we have no corresponding reservoir of historical wisdom to teach us how to save our digital data .
That does not mean there is nothing to learn from the past , only that we must work a little harder to find it .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>al0ha writes to recommend a worthwhile piece up at American Scientist on the problems of archiving and data preservation in an age where all data are stored digitally.
"It seems unavoidable that most of the data in our future will be digital, so it behooves us to understand how to manage and preserve digital data so we can avoid what some have called the 'digital dark age.
' This is the idea — or fear!
— that if we cannot learn to explicitly save our digital data, we will lose that data and, with it, the record that future generations might use to remember and understand us.
... Unlike the many venerable institutions that have for centuries refined their techniques for preserving analog data on clay, stone, ceramic or paper, we have no corresponding reservoir of historical wisdom to teach us how to save our digital data.
That does not mean there is nothing to learn from the past, only that we must work a little harder to find it.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253312</id>
	<title>Loss of all technical knowledge</title>
	<author>Punctuated\_Equilibri</author>
	<datestamp>1266931800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The bigger danger is there is some major event like a plague and not enough people are left to maintain a technical society.  Who would know how to make a microprocessor, or even refine gasoline?  Tan leather?  Grow crops?  We could be back to the stone age in a single generation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The bigger danger is there is some major event like a plague and not enough people are left to maintain a technical society .
Who would know how to make a microprocessor , or even refine gasoline ?
Tan leather ?
Grow crops ?
We could be back to the stone age in a single generation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bigger danger is there is some major event like a plague and not enough people are left to maintain a technical society.
Who would know how to make a microprocessor, or even refine gasoline?
Tan leather?
Grow crops?
We could be back to the stone age in a single generation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258322</id>
	<title>To much Data / Information</title>
	<author>Pec</author>
	<datestamp>1265120520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem nowadays is the excessive amount of data, there is so much that we have no information at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem nowadays is the excessive amount of data , there is so much that we have no information at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem nowadays is the excessive amount of data, there is so much that we have no information at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254354</id>
	<title>idea: opt-in mirror as you browse option,encrypted</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266937920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what of this idea: an opt in mirror as you browse option for web browsers<br>allowing anonymous mirroring via tarballs sent to a database and hashed.<br>some type of plugin could offer this so everything you browse is mirrored<br>automatically. there could be an option for the web browser's plugin to<br>also include this feature in the background, similar to how distributed<br>computing projects work, using a user set predefined amount of cpu time.<br>this could also be done through a screensaver, the plugin could work<br>through a fork of tor or something like it, where the plugin works in<br>such a way where the data is encrypted from the user and anonymized without the user or the collection bank at the end knowing who it came from, only hashes are generated and stored from each of the browser's anonymized submissions. the central databank for all this information could also work in such a way somehow offering torrents of hashed tarballs, allowing for further spread and storage of the data</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what of this idea : an opt in mirror as you browse option for web browsersallowing anonymous mirroring via tarballs sent to a database and hashed.some type of plugin could offer this so everything you browse is mirroredautomatically .
there could be an option for the web browser 's plugin toalso include this feature in the background , similar to how distributedcomputing projects work , using a user set predefined amount of cpu time.this could also be done through a screensaver , the plugin could workthrough a fork of tor or something like it , where the plugin works insuch a way where the data is encrypted from the user and anonymized without the user or the collection bank at the end knowing who it came from , only hashes are generated and stored from each of the browser 's anonymized submissions .
the central databank for all this information could also work in such a way somehow offering torrents of hashed tarballs , allowing for further spread and storage of the data</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what of this idea: an opt in mirror as you browse option for web browsersallowing anonymous mirroring via tarballs sent to a database and hashed.some type of plugin could offer this so everything you browse is mirroredautomatically.
there could be an option for the web browser's plugin toalso include this feature in the background, similar to how distributedcomputing projects work, using a user set predefined amount of cpu time.this could also be done through a screensaver, the plugin could workthrough a fork of tor or something like it, where the plugin works insuch a way where the data is encrypted from the user and anonymized without the user or the collection bank at the end knowing who it came from, only hashes are generated and stored from each of the browser's anonymized submissions.
the central databank for all this information could also work in such a way somehow offering torrents of hashed tarballs, allowing for further spread and storage of the data</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258054</id>
	<title>Google's Servers</title>
	<author>cenc</author>
	<datestamp>1265117880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>5,000 years from now people or aliens can just Google it.</p><p>I am only half joking. Google does (or is capable) doing what in some respect government offices use to do like the library of congress. The only problem is that it is not clear just how long Google keeps its data. Does it really not have a backup of what it crawled and cached  of any sort from say 2 years ago or 5 years ago somewhere in a bunker under a mountain?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>5,000 years from now people or aliens can just Google it.I am only half joking .
Google does ( or is capable ) doing what in some respect government offices use to do like the library of congress .
The only problem is that it is not clear just how long Google keeps its data .
Does it really not have a backup of what it crawled and cached of any sort from say 2 years ago or 5 years ago somewhere in a bunker under a mountain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5,000 years from now people or aliens can just Google it.I am only half joking.
Google does (or is capable) doing what in some respect government offices use to do like the library of congress.
The only problem is that it is not clear just how long Google keeps its data.
Does it really not have a backup of what it crawled and cached  of any sort from say 2 years ago or 5 years ago somewhere in a bunker under a mountain?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254274</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1266937380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like the method shown by the George Pal version of "The Time Machine".  (I think it was George Pal's - it's the one that debuted a young, red-haired Michael Doohan).  Little rings on a round table top.  You can't help but want to spin the first one you see.  Brilliant piece of UI design, I think, although difficult to accomplish without an opposable thumb (it's anthropocentric, of course - our robot overlords might not have the knack of spinning a ring on a table) but I doubt that's a problem if we limit our scope to homo sapiens.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the method shown by the George Pal version of " The Time Machine " .
( I think it was George Pal 's - it 's the one that debuted a young , red-haired Michael Doohan ) .
Little rings on a round table top .
You ca n't help but want to spin the first one you see .
Brilliant piece of UI design , I think , although difficult to accomplish without an opposable thumb ( it 's anthropocentric , of course - our robot overlords might not have the knack of spinning a ring on a table ) but I doubt that 's a problem if we limit our scope to homo sapiens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the method shown by the George Pal version of "The Time Machine".
(I think it was George Pal's - it's the one that debuted a young, red-haired Michael Doohan).
Little rings on a round table top.
You can't help but want to spin the first one you see.
Brilliant piece of UI design, I think, although difficult to accomplish without an opposable thumb (it's anthropocentric, of course - our robot overlords might not have the knack of spinning a ring on a table) but I doubt that's a problem if we limit our scope to homo sapiens.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255766</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266949020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recycle most of those when they're no longer needed. They're not exactly the kind of thing I'd expect people to keep around for millennia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recycle most of those when they 're no longer needed .
They 're not exactly the kind of thing I 'd expect people to keep around for millennia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recycle most of those when they're no longer needed.
They're not exactly the kind of thing I'd expect people to keep around for millennia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254364</id>
	<title>You people dissapoint me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266938040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This story was posted an hour and a half ago, and not a single one of you has made a snarky reference to Foundation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This story was posted an hour and a half ago , and not a single one of you has made a snarky reference to Foundation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This story was posted an hour and a half ago, and not a single one of you has made a snarky reference to Foundation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252966</id>
	<title>Perhaps the way we think..</title>
	<author>malkavian</author>
	<datestamp>1266930180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About storing data will change.  Historically, we've stored on paper, stone, or whatever could be inscribed.  The 'backups' for data has been more about attempting to 'inscribe' media with the digital info.<br>Perhaps we're entering an era where we'll be trying to keep information 'live' perpetually, with the internet the first attempt at having an active library (though there are currently lots of cracks for information to be lost).</p><p>Many of the laws that overly stymie information flow (DMCA etc.), I think, are just a knee jerk reaction in the way printing presses were suppressed, and controlled until everyone realised the benefits of having them opened up.</p><p>Still, having the long term offline stores is no bad thing..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About storing data will change .
Historically , we 've stored on paper , stone , or whatever could be inscribed .
The 'backups ' for data has been more about attempting to 'inscribe ' media with the digital info.Perhaps we 're entering an era where we 'll be trying to keep information 'live ' perpetually , with the internet the first attempt at having an active library ( though there are currently lots of cracks for information to be lost ) .Many of the laws that overly stymie information flow ( DMCA etc .
) , I think , are just a knee jerk reaction in the way printing presses were suppressed , and controlled until everyone realised the benefits of having them opened up.Still , having the long term offline stores is no bad thing. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About storing data will change.
Historically, we've stored on paper, stone, or whatever could be inscribed.
The 'backups' for data has been more about attempting to 'inscribe' media with the digital info.Perhaps we're entering an era where we'll be trying to keep information 'live' perpetually, with the internet the first attempt at having an active library (though there are currently lots of cracks for information to be lost).Many of the laws that overly stymie information flow (DMCA etc.
), I think, are just a knee jerk reaction in the way printing presses were suppressed, and controlled until everyone realised the benefits of having them opened up.Still, having the long term offline stores is no bad thing..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253840</id>
	<title>Don't worry</title>
	<author>GetTragic</author>
	<datestamp>1266934560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've committed the internet to memory</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've committed the internet to memory</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've committed the internet to memory</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Third Position</author>
	<datestamp>1266931440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Our landfills will provide all the info they need.</p></div><p>Well, I'm not entirely sure of that. If you pick up a stone or a paper with characters on it, you at least have an idea what it's purpose was. But 5000 years from now, how does someone interpret a shiny little disk? It might be a long, long time before someone is able to discern it's purpose, let along figure out how it's encoded and how to un-encode it. And that's even before getting a look at the language, and learning how to translate that.</p><p>That's one advantage of paper, stone and parchment - they don't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them.</p><p>I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a "written" language. But consider that it's taken us over 500 years to suspect these braids are a form of media, let alone learned to read it, and you can imagine what a future civilization might be confronting trying to figure out our digital media.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Our landfills will provide all the info they need.Well , I 'm not entirely sure of that .
If you pick up a stone or a paper with characters on it , you at least have an idea what it 's purpose was .
But 5000 years from now , how does someone interpret a shiny little disk ?
It might be a long , long time before someone is able to discern it 's purpose , let along figure out how it 's encoded and how to un-encode it .
And that 's even before getting a look at the language , and learning how to translate that.That 's one advantage of paper , stone and parchment - they do n't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them.I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a " written " language .
But consider that it 's taken us over 500 years to suspect these braids are a form of media , let alone learned to read it , and you can imagine what a future civilization might be confronting trying to figure out our digital media .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our landfills will provide all the info they need.Well, I'm not entirely sure of that.
If you pick up a stone or a paper with characters on it, you at least have an idea what it's purpose was.
But 5000 years from now, how does someone interpret a shiny little disk?
It might be a long, long time before someone is able to discern it's purpose, let along figure out how it's encoded and how to un-encode it.
And that's even before getting a look at the language, and learning how to translate that.That's one advantage of paper, stone and parchment - they don't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them.I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a "written" language.
But consider that it's taken us over 500 years to suspect these braids are a form of media, let alone learned to read it, and you can imagine what a future civilization might be confronting trying to figure out our digital media.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253756</id>
	<title>Anal Grannies, Weapons of Mass Destruction...</title>
	<author>DVD9</author>
	<datestamp>1266934080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gonzo, War on Terror, First Person Shooter...
<br>
<br>
It would indeed be a tragedy for civilization if such data were lost and the mind of the early 21st century American went unrecorded.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gonzo , War on Terror , First Person Shooter.. . It would indeed be a tragedy for civilization if such data were lost and the mind of the early 21st century American went unrecorded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gonzo, War on Terror, First Person Shooter...


It would indeed be a tragedy for civilization if such data were lost and the mind of the early 21st century American went unrecorded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253864</id>
	<title>Don't trust cloud computing.</title>
	<author>Lazarian</author>
	<datestamp>1266934680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you want to preserve your data, backup your data yourself, and keep it on its own storage medium. There seems to be a growing impetus where "cloud computing" and "thin clients" are envisioned to replace traditional architectures where data is stored and decoded by the individual who owns/created it. I'd rather store my data myself than ask permission to access it through the equivalent of a 1980's green screen dumb terminal from some corporation who's interests run contrary to mine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to preserve your data , backup your data yourself , and keep it on its own storage medium .
There seems to be a growing impetus where " cloud computing " and " thin clients " are envisioned to replace traditional architectures where data is stored and decoded by the individual who owns/created it .
I 'd rather store my data myself than ask permission to access it through the equivalent of a 1980 's green screen dumb terminal from some corporation who 's interests run contrary to mine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to preserve your data, backup your data yourself, and keep it on its own storage medium.
There seems to be a growing impetus where "cloud computing" and "thin clients" are envisioned to replace traditional architectures where data is stored and decoded by the individual who owns/created it.
I'd rather store my data myself than ask permission to access it through the equivalent of a 1980's green screen dumb terminal from some corporation who's interests run contrary to mine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256922</id>
	<title>Big Brother...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Big Brother will certainly enjoy this lack of history. It's much easier to fill an empty space than to replace an existing history.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Big Brother will certainly enjoy this lack of history .
It 's much easier to fill an empty space than to replace an existing history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Big Brother will certainly enjoy this lack of history.
It's much easier to fill an empty space than to replace an existing history.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31259810</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>jc42</author>
	<datestamp>1265128380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a "written" language.</i></p><p>Can you give some references for this?  I'm familiar with the Inca knotted-rope notation, but I've never read of any instances of it in Mayan areas.  I did a quick google check of "Mayan braided rope writing", which gets a few thousand hits, but none of them seem to actually talk about such a Mayan writing system.  They just use those words in different sentences, such as talking about braided-rope decorations in one paragraph and writing in another.  I also substituted "Inca" for "Mayan", and google's first page linked to descriptions of the familiar Inca notation.</p><p>Also, the Inca knot notation has been understood as some sort of notation all along; it's just that nobody knows how to decode it.  This was also true of Mayan writing, but it was finally cracked in the 1970s and 1980s with the help of native speakers of the modern Mayan languages (and there's a fair amount of scholarly research on the subject now).</p><p>So where can we read about Mayan knot notation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a " written " language.Can you give some references for this ?
I 'm familiar with the Inca knotted-rope notation , but I 've never read of any instances of it in Mayan areas .
I did a quick google check of " Mayan braided rope writing " , which gets a few thousand hits , but none of them seem to actually talk about such a Mayan writing system .
They just use those words in different sentences , such as talking about braided-rope decorations in one paragraph and writing in another .
I also substituted " Inca " for " Mayan " , and google 's first page linked to descriptions of the familiar Inca notation.Also , the Inca knot notation has been understood as some sort of notation all along ; it 's just that nobody knows how to decode it .
This was also true of Mayan writing , but it was finally cracked in the 1970s and 1980s with the help of native speakers of the modern Mayan languages ( and there 's a fair amount of scholarly research on the subject now ) .So where can we read about Mayan knot notation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have heard that some of the braided ropes left by Mayans might actually be a "written" language.Can you give some references for this?
I'm familiar with the Inca knotted-rope notation, but I've never read of any instances of it in Mayan areas.
I did a quick google check of "Mayan braided rope writing", which gets a few thousand hits, but none of them seem to actually talk about such a Mayan writing system.
They just use those words in different sentences, such as talking about braided-rope decorations in one paragraph and writing in another.
I also substituted "Inca" for "Mayan", and google's first page linked to descriptions of the familiar Inca notation.Also, the Inca knot notation has been understood as some sort of notation all along; it's just that nobody knows how to decode it.
This was also true of Mayan writing, but it was finally cracked in the 1970s and 1980s with the help of native speakers of the modern Mayan languages (and there's a fair amount of scholarly research on the subject now).So where can we read about Mayan knot notation?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258188</id>
	<title>Re:To forget is good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265119380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Vint Cerf talked about this kind of young chap who had problems understanding why only relevant information is not the relevant in future.

</p><p>Start watching this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnAKUMFvKw" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnAKUMFvKw</a> [youtube.com] from around 2:20 mark...

</p><p>"It took about an half hour to take librarians off the ceiling"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vint Cerf talked about this kind of young chap who had problems understanding why only relevant information is not the relevant in future .
Start watching this http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = oTnAKUMFvKw [ youtube.com ] from around 2 : 20 mark.. . " It took about an half hour to take librarians off the ceiling "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vint Cerf talked about this kind of young chap who had problems understanding why only relevant information is not the relevant in future.
Start watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnAKUMFvKw [youtube.com] from around 2:20 mark...

"It took about an half hour to take librarians off the ceiling"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254226</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>Bob Cat - NYMPHS</author>
	<datestamp>1266936840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I invite people to read more about your inaccurate statement. Copy paste much?</p><p><a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/CAMILEON/domesday/domesday.html" title="umich.edu">http://www.si.umich.edu/CAMILEON/domesday/domesday.html</a> [umich.edu]</p><p>It's a NEW Domeday, not a scan of the old one. Emulating old computers is not that hard. COPYRIGHT seems to ne the real problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I invite people to read more about your inaccurate statement .
Copy paste much ? http : //www.si.umich.edu/CAMILEON/domesday/domesday.html [ umich.edu ] It 's a NEW Domeday , not a scan of the old one .
Emulating old computers is not that hard .
COPYRIGHT seems to ne the real problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I invite people to read more about your inaccurate statement.
Copy paste much?http://www.si.umich.edu/CAMILEON/domesday/domesday.html [umich.edu]It's a NEW Domeday, not a scan of the old one.
Emulating old computers is not that hard.
COPYRIGHT seems to ne the real problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31259766</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Convector</author>
	<datestamp>1265128260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I recently came across a 3.5" floppy disk while rummaging though the home office.  I'm pretty sure it's no more than 12 years old. Curious as to what was on it, I discovered that none of my (working) computers had a floppy drive.  It looks like I lose.  Or I have to finally replace the power supply in the older machine that does have a floppy drive, but I'm far too lazy for that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I recently came across a 3.5 " floppy disk while rummaging though the home office .
I 'm pretty sure it 's no more than 12 years old .
Curious as to what was on it , I discovered that none of my ( working ) computers had a floppy drive .
It looks like I lose .
Or I have to finally replace the power supply in the older machine that does have a floppy drive , but I 'm far too lazy for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recently came across a 3.5" floppy disk while rummaging though the home office.
I'm pretty sure it's no more than 12 years old.
Curious as to what was on it, I discovered that none of my (working) computers had a floppy drive.
It looks like I lose.
Or I have to finally replace the power supply in the older machine that does have a floppy drive, but I'm far too lazy for that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254916</id>
	<title>I Can Still Play Bionic Commando On My C64</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266941700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can still play the copy of Bionic Commando I bought for my C64 20 some years ago, but the ability for me to legally play the copy of Bionic Commando Rearmed I bought two years ago is in jeopardy since the company folded and the software needs to phone home on install. They never released a patch to clear the DRM.

If a clearing of DRM on "dissolution" is not in the software license, then don't expect their to be one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can still play the copy of Bionic Commando I bought for my C64 20 some years ago , but the ability for me to legally play the copy of Bionic Commando Rearmed I bought two years ago is in jeopardy since the company folded and the software needs to phone home on install .
They never released a patch to clear the DRM .
If a clearing of DRM on " dissolution " is not in the software license , then do n't expect their to be one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can still play the copy of Bionic Commando I bought for my C64 20 some years ago, but the ability for me to legally play the copy of Bionic Commando Rearmed I bought two years ago is in jeopardy since the company folded and the software needs to phone home on install.
They never released a patch to clear the DRM.
If a clearing of DRM on "dissolution" is not in the software license, then don't expect their to be one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31271214</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1267108200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're mistaking "state of the art" with "common desktop" capabilities. In 1984, 400k floppies and 16 color graphics was mainstream for desktop computers. Hell-Linotype was already producing machines which were used to manipulate full color photographic images and John Lasseter, who would head Pixar (to be formed in two years) created the fully animated 3D computer short "Wally B" while at Lucasfilm. State of the art was quite a bit more advanced. That's not to say they didn't have challenges, however it is particularly short sighted of them to not transfer the data to new media as it became available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're mistaking " state of the art " with " common desktop " capabilities .
In 1984 , 400k floppies and 16 color graphics was mainstream for desktop computers .
Hell-Linotype was already producing machines which were used to manipulate full color photographic images and John Lasseter , who would head Pixar ( to be formed in two years ) created the fully animated 3D computer short " Wally B " while at Lucasfilm .
State of the art was quite a bit more advanced .
That 's not to say they did n't have challenges , however it is particularly short sighted of them to not transfer the data to new media as it became available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're mistaking "state of the art" with "common desktop" capabilities.
In 1984, 400k floppies and 16 color graphics was mainstream for desktop computers.
Hell-Linotype was already producing machines which were used to manipulate full color photographic images and John Lasseter, who would head Pixar (to be formed in two years) created the fully animated 3D computer short "Wally B" while at Lucasfilm.
State of the art was quite a bit more advanced.
That's not to say they didn't have challenges, however it is particularly short sighted of them to not transfer the data to new media as it became available.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254882</id>
	<title>Blast from the past</title>
	<author>aktzin</author>
	<datestamp>1266941460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I thought this sounded familiar.  I found a comment I wrote over 2 years ago for a similar story:


<a href="http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=207582&amp;cid=16922754" title="slashdot.org">http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=207582&amp;cid=16922754</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought this sounded familiar .
I found a comment I wrote over 2 years ago for a similar story : http : //slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 207582&amp;cid = 16922754 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought this sounded familiar.
I found a comment I wrote over 2 years ago for a similar story:


http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=207582&amp;cid=16922754 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257832</id>
	<title>This is hardly a problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265115420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Classic stupidization of society. What to do? How about organizing yourself? How about solving your own problems? How about thinking what data you really want to preserve and keep accessible until you die, and organize yourself accordingly? It doesn't have to be digital to be lost: NASA lost the Apollo 11 recordings even if they were in a really quirky and analog format, they could be read today, only they 'misplaced' them in their own terms.</p><p>Sheesh people. Build a ZFS array, OpenSolaris is out there, keep everything online 24/7 for 60 years until you no longer need them, let the next generation decide what to keep. If a disk dies, replace it promptly. Have backups. What more do you need besides getting off your ass?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Classic stupidization of society .
What to do ?
How about organizing yourself ?
How about solving your own problems ?
How about thinking what data you really want to preserve and keep accessible until you die , and organize yourself accordingly ?
It does n't have to be digital to be lost : NASA lost the Apollo 11 recordings even if they were in a really quirky and analog format , they could be read today , only they 'misplaced ' them in their own terms.Sheesh people .
Build a ZFS array , OpenSolaris is out there , keep everything online 24/7 for 60 years until you no longer need them , let the next generation decide what to keep .
If a disk dies , replace it promptly .
Have backups .
What more do you need besides getting off your ass ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Classic stupidization of society.
What to do?
How about organizing yourself?
How about solving your own problems?
How about thinking what data you really want to preserve and keep accessible until you die, and organize yourself accordingly?
It doesn't have to be digital to be lost: NASA lost the Apollo 11 recordings even if they were in a really quirky and analog format, they could be read today, only they 'misplaced' them in their own terms.Sheesh people.
Build a ZFS array, OpenSolaris is out there, keep everything online 24/7 for 60 years until you no longer need them, let the next generation decide what to keep.
If a disk dies, replace it promptly.
Have backups.
What more do you need besides getting off your ass?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253536</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>lgw</author>
	<datestamp>1266932880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Information "in the cloud" will disappear the moment you stop paying for it.  Corporate information in the cloud will come with a destruction date (as do paper corporate records in a storage facility, so no real difference there).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Information " in the cloud " will disappear the moment you stop paying for it .
Corporate information in the cloud will come with a destruction date ( as do paper corporate records in a storage facility , so no real difference there ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Information "in the cloud" will disappear the moment you stop paying for it.
Corporate information in the cloud will come with a destruction date (as do paper corporate records in a storage facility, so no real difference there).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254322</id>
	<title>Re:One Site to Archive Them All</title>
	<author>JoeMerchant</author>
	<datestamp>1266937680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They aren't archiving everything the way they used to... I've been trying to convince them to archive a couple of sites for 2 years now and they still haven't shown up.  I think they're allergic to Wordpress weblogs...</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are n't archiving everything the way they used to... I 've been trying to convince them to archive a couple of sites for 2 years now and they still have n't shown up .
I think they 're allergic to Wordpress weblogs.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They aren't archiving everything the way they used to... I've been trying to convince them to archive a couple of sites for 2 years now and they still haven't shown up.
I think they're allergic to Wordpress weblogs...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258736</id>
	<title>Lame sometimes</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1265123280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first part I laughed at was that he had forgotten to make a backup of the program he used to make and read the backups...<br>then I sort of forgot to read the rest,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>......wonder why....  : P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first part I laughed at was that he had forgotten to make a backup of the program he used to make and read the backups...then I sort of forgot to read the rest , ......wonder why.... : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first part I laughed at was that he had forgotten to make a backup of the program he used to make and read the backups...then I sort of forgot to read the rest, ......wonder why....  : P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254796</id>
	<title>Re:Self-correcting problem</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1266940920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are two problems with this:</p><p>1) Wanting gaps. What happens when knowledge lies on a shelf, unwanted and unused, for two decades and then someone needs it again?</p><p>2) Intentional destruction for political, economic, or personal gain. Lots of people would LOVE to recall every history rebook and make a few edits to "improve their accuracy".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are two problems with this : 1 ) Wanting gaps .
What happens when knowledge lies on a shelf , unwanted and unused , for two decades and then someone needs it again ? 2 ) Intentional destruction for political , economic , or personal gain .
Lots of people would LOVE to recall every history rebook and make a few edits to " improve their accuracy " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are two problems with this:1) Wanting gaps.
What happens when knowledge lies on a shelf, unwanted and unused, for two decades and then someone needs it again?2) Intentional destruction for political, economic, or personal gain.
Lots of people would LOVE to recall every history rebook and make a few edits to "improve their accuracy".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253462</id>
	<title>Re:The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266932580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?</p></div><p>Luckily, the strength of most DRM is shit. If it's so easy to crack today, imagine what the space-historians of tomorrow will be able to do with their positronic computers and whatnot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today , can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again ? Luckily , the strength of most DRM is shit .
If it 's so easy to crack today , imagine what the space-historians of tomorrow will be able to do with their positronic computers and whatnot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?Luckily, the strength of most DRM is shit.
If it's so easy to crack today, imagine what the space-historians of tomorrow will be able to do with their positronic computers and whatnot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255208</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>ildon</author>
	<datestamp>1266943980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have some<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.mp2 files from 15 years ago.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some .mp2 files from 15 years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some .mp2 files from 15 years ago.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255514</id>
	<title>Won't matter - there ain't no more do-overs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266946560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If human race is alive 5000 years from now it will be in either of the following scenarios,</p><p>
&nbsp; 1. we learned to live within means of this planet and most likely colonized other planets and solar systems, or<br>
&nbsp; 2. we failed and a few handful of surviving humans live on a world devoid of easily accessible resources (eg. copper, nickel, silver, oil, etc.)</p><p>In first scenario, most of today's knowledge would survive as an interesting history project(s). In the latter, today's knowledge will mean very little.</p><p>So yeah, there ain't going to be any future civilizations. This is IT! This is the only shot we have. It is too late to think of "do overs". The last do-over possibility happened before humans discovered industry and antibiotics propelling our population to what it is today.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If human race is alive 5000 years from now it will be in either of the following scenarios ,   1. we learned to live within means of this planet and most likely colonized other planets and solar systems , or   2. we failed and a few handful of surviving humans live on a world devoid of easily accessible resources ( eg .
copper , nickel , silver , oil , etc .
) In first scenario , most of today 's knowledge would survive as an interesting history project ( s ) .
In the latter , today 's knowledge will mean very little.So yeah , there ai n't going to be any future civilizations .
This is IT !
This is the only shot we have .
It is too late to think of " do overs " .
The last do-over possibility happened before humans discovered industry and antibiotics propelling our population to what it is today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If human race is alive 5000 years from now it will be in either of the following scenarios,
  1. we learned to live within means of this planet and most likely colonized other planets and solar systems, or
  2. we failed and a few handful of surviving humans live on a world devoid of easily accessible resources (eg.
copper, nickel, silver, oil, etc.
)In first scenario, most of today's knowledge would survive as an interesting history project(s).
In the latter, today's knowledge will mean very little.So yeah, there ain't going to be any future civilizations.
This is IT!
This is the only shot we have.
It is too late to think of "do overs".
The last do-over possibility happened before humans discovered industry and antibiotics propelling our population to what it is today.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255808</id>
	<title>Apple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266949440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apple is the Roman Catholic Church of the Digital Dark Age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apple is the Roman Catholic Church of the Digital Dark Age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apple is the Roman Catholic Church of the Digital Dark Age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256582</id>
	<title>Print it</title>
	<author>FaytLeingod</author>
	<datestamp>1265143560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My Wife is very suspicious of all technology so all our photo's, important Doc's  are printed
This helped alot when my hard drive crashed</htmltext>
<tokenext>My Wife is very suspicious of all technology so all our photo 's , important Doc 's are printed This helped alot when my hard drive crashed</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Wife is very suspicious of all technology so all our photo's, important Doc's  are printed
This helped alot when my hard drive crashed</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253562</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>lennier</author>
	<datestamp>1266933060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps because others were doing it. A number of independent projects tried to back up Geocities, and may have between them recovered most of the data.</p><p>* <a href="http://geociti.es/" title="geociti.es">http://geociti.es/</a> [geociti.es]<br>* <a href="http://reocities.com/" title="reocities.com">http://reocities.com/</a> [reocities.com]<br>* <a href="http://www.archiveteam.org/" title="archiveteam.org">http://www.archiveteam.org/</a> [archiveteam.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps because others were doing it .
A number of independent projects tried to back up Geocities , and may have between them recovered most of the data .
* http : //geociti.es/ [ geociti.es ] * http : //reocities.com/ [ reocities.com ] * http : //www.archiveteam.org/ [ archiveteam.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps because others were doing it.
A number of independent projects tried to back up Geocities, and may have between them recovered most of the data.
* http://geociti.es/ [geociti.es]* http://reocities.com/ [reocities.com]* http://www.archiveteam.org/ [archiveteam.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253518</id>
	<title>Re:The question remains</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266932820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>How much of it is really worth saving?</i> <br> <br>Pictures of my grandmother from the '20s? Priceless. Mostly useless to anyone but our family, but there ya go.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much of it is really worth saving ?
Pictures of my grandmother from the '20s ?
Priceless. Mostly useless to anyone but our family , but there ya go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much of it is really worth saving?
Pictures of my grandmother from the '20s?
Priceless. Mostly useless to anyone but our family, but there ya go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254734</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone learn from history anymore?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266940440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not your age. You are right. Excuse me, there's someone on my lawn...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not your age .
You are right .
Excuse me , there 's someone on my lawn.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not your age.
You are right.
Excuse me, there's someone on my lawn...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253414</id>
	<title>Um?</title>
	<author>drDugan</author>
	<datestamp>1266932280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is what counts for science nowadays?</p><p><a href="http://www.americanscientist.org/include/popup\_fullImage.aspx?key=vo50G9YwnF6SwlOk2usL5R9EyqRLsNX+YiPzweX/0ZsH0IeSOOXIBip7qwN2/ZRY" title="americanscientist.org">http://www.americanscientist.org/include/popup\_fullImage.aspx?key=vo50G9YwnF6SwlOk2usL5R9EyqRLsNX+YiPzweX/0ZsH0IeSOOXIBip7qwN2/ZRY</a> [americanscientist.org]</p><p>Look carefully at the 'digital encoding' of the "simple tone" sine wave.    ???  Really?  What encoder is that?<br>cf. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier\_Transform" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier\_Transform</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what counts for science nowadays ? http : //www.americanscientist.org/include/popup \ _fullImage.aspx ? key = vo50G9YwnF6SwlOk2usL5R9EyqRLsNX + YiPzweX/0ZsH0IeSOOXIBip7qwN2/ZRY [ americanscientist.org ] Look carefully at the 'digital encoding ' of the " simple tone " sine wave .
? ? ? Really ?
What encoder is that ? cf .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier \ _Transform [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what counts for science nowadays?http://www.americanscientist.org/include/popup\_fullImage.aspx?key=vo50G9YwnF6SwlOk2usL5R9EyqRLsNX+YiPzweX/0ZsH0IeSOOXIBip7qwN2/ZRY [americanscientist.org]Look carefully at the 'digital encoding' of the "simple tone" sine wave.
???  Really?
What encoder is that?cf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier\_Transform [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255422</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>elronxenu</author>
	<datestamp>1266945660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Because they forgot key parts of the process:
</p><ul>
<li> <b>Keep it simple</b> </li><li> <b>Make lots of copies which are readily available</b> </li><li> <b>Keep converting to new formats over the years</b> </li></ul><p>
The UK fouled up by inventing new proprietary storage formats which needed custom hardware and software to read and process the data. The laserdisc needed a special laserdisc player and a BBC Micro. The BBC who produced this were years ahead of their time and had to invent a lot of stuff. Unfortunately the rest of the world invented a lot of different stuff, which is what we use today.

</p><p>
And how many of these systems were produced? I don't know, but they cost 4000 pounds each which is a significant investment for a school and certainly the high price reduced the number of items which were sent into the community.

</p><p>
Even though we have extracted the data from the original formats (and also obtained improved images by re-mastering original video footage) it seems that one of the main impediments to putting this data online is <b>copyright</b> - the contents of the 1986 project won't be out of copyright until 2090!

</p><p>
The above two points come together with "keep converting to new formats". If your stuff is all proprietary, it may be hard to convert to new formats. If your stuff is copyrighted, you may be able to convert it but you can't distribute it, and widespread distribution is one of the requirements of effective data preservation.

</p><p>
The data which was produced in 1986 wasn't lost and won't be lost. People are working with it and upgrading it. However, you won't be able to see it, primarily due to the shortsightedness of the original project.

</p><p>
So loss of digital data is not so much a technical problem, more a social problem, of shortsightedness in creation, distribution and copyright.

</p><p>
Kinda like the BBC's lost videotapes of Monty Python (or was it Dr Who?)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... priceless recordings were allowed to degrade and become unusable, were thrown away, or were overwritten ("media re-used"). I don't mean to point the finger only at the BBC - NASA did it too. Lack of foresight, folks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they forgot key parts of the process : Keep it simple Make lots of copies which are readily available Keep converting to new formats over the years The UK fouled up by inventing new proprietary storage formats which needed custom hardware and software to read and process the data .
The laserdisc needed a special laserdisc player and a BBC Micro .
The BBC who produced this were years ahead of their time and had to invent a lot of stuff .
Unfortunately the rest of the world invented a lot of different stuff , which is what we use today .
And how many of these systems were produced ?
I do n't know , but they cost 4000 pounds each which is a significant investment for a school and certainly the high price reduced the number of items which were sent into the community .
Even though we have extracted the data from the original formats ( and also obtained improved images by re-mastering original video footage ) it seems that one of the main impediments to putting this data online is copyright - the contents of the 1986 project wo n't be out of copyright until 2090 !
The above two points come together with " keep converting to new formats " .
If your stuff is all proprietary , it may be hard to convert to new formats .
If your stuff is copyrighted , you may be able to convert it but you ca n't distribute it , and widespread distribution is one of the requirements of effective data preservation .
The data which was produced in 1986 was n't lost and wo n't be lost .
People are working with it and upgrading it .
However , you wo n't be able to see it , primarily due to the shortsightedness of the original project .
So loss of digital data is not so much a technical problem , more a social problem , of shortsightedness in creation , distribution and copyright .
Kinda like the BBC 's lost videotapes of Monty Python ( or was it Dr Who ?
) ... priceless recordings were allowed to degrade and become unusable , were thrown away , or were overwritten ( " media re-used " ) .
I do n't mean to point the finger only at the BBC - NASA did it too .
Lack of foresight , folks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Because they forgot key parts of the process:

 Keep it simple  Make lots of copies which are readily available  Keep converting to new formats over the years 
The UK fouled up by inventing new proprietary storage formats which needed custom hardware and software to read and process the data.
The laserdisc needed a special laserdisc player and a BBC Micro.
The BBC who produced this were years ahead of their time and had to invent a lot of stuff.
Unfortunately the rest of the world invented a lot of different stuff, which is what we use today.
And how many of these systems were produced?
I don't know, but they cost 4000 pounds each which is a significant investment for a school and certainly the high price reduced the number of items which were sent into the community.
Even though we have extracted the data from the original formats (and also obtained improved images by re-mastering original video footage) it seems that one of the main impediments to putting this data online is copyright - the contents of the 1986 project won't be out of copyright until 2090!
The above two points come together with "keep converting to new formats".
If your stuff is all proprietary, it may be hard to convert to new formats.
If your stuff is copyrighted, you may be able to convert it but you can't distribute it, and widespread distribution is one of the requirements of effective data preservation.
The data which was produced in 1986 wasn't lost and won't be lost.
People are working with it and upgrading it.
However, you won't be able to see it, primarily due to the shortsightedness of the original project.
So loss of digital data is not so much a technical problem, more a social problem, of shortsightedness in creation, distribution and copyright.
Kinda like the BBC's lost videotapes of Monty Python (or was it Dr Who?
) ... priceless recordings were allowed to degrade and become unusable, were thrown away, or were overwritten ("media re-used").
I don't mean to point the finger only at the BBC - NASA did it too.
Lack of foresight, folks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253356</id>
	<title>Re:The question remains</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266932040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We'll soon find out. If it ain't worth paying a tiny yearly fee to preserve a file on an off-site storage, it ain't worth saving.</p><p>The only problem is what happens when the off-site company goes bankrupt. New legislation needed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 'll soon find out .
If it ai n't worth paying a tiny yearly fee to preserve a file on an off-site storage , it ai n't worth saving.The only problem is what happens when the off-site company goes bankrupt .
New legislation needed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We'll soon find out.
If it ain't worth paying a tiny yearly fee to preserve a file on an off-site storage, it ain't worth saving.The only problem is what happens when the off-site company goes bankrupt.
New legislation needed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252976</id>
	<title>perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>Eravnrekaree</author>
	<datestamp>1266930240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is indeed a big problem. The problem was illustrated recently when Yahoo suddenly pulled the plug on Geocities, wiping out a vast cultural archive that went back to the early days of the internet, a lot of valuable information was lost as a result of that. Yahoo's blatant arrogance caused me to refuse to ever use any of their products again. Geocities was actually a fairly nice service, often people criticised it because of the ads, but how do you pay to continue to offer a free service. The loss of geocities was a perfect example of the need for a permenant store or online archive of information, personal websites and so on that can be maintained as a cultural legacy and informational resource.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is indeed a big problem .
The problem was illustrated recently when Yahoo suddenly pulled the plug on Geocities , wiping out a vast cultural archive that went back to the early days of the internet , a lot of valuable information was lost as a result of that .
Yahoo 's blatant arrogance caused me to refuse to ever use any of their products again .
Geocities was actually a fairly nice service , often people criticised it because of the ads , but how do you pay to continue to offer a free service .
The loss of geocities was a perfect example of the need for a permenant store or online archive of information , personal websites and so on that can be maintained as a cultural legacy and informational resource .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is indeed a big problem.
The problem was illustrated recently when Yahoo suddenly pulled the plug on Geocities, wiping out a vast cultural archive that went back to the early days of the internet, a lot of valuable information was lost as a result of that.
Yahoo's blatant arrogance caused me to refuse to ever use any of their products again.
Geocities was actually a fairly nice service, often people criticised it because of the ads, but how do you pay to continue to offer a free service.
The loss of geocities was a perfect example of the need for a permenant store or online archive of information, personal websites and so on that can be maintained as a cultural legacy and informational resource.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255446</id>
	<title>Re:ffs.. the "zomg how to preserve" story -again-!</title>
	<author>xactuary</author>
	<datestamp>1266945840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And that story had a comment just like yours linking to an even earlier story, and so on. Slashdotters LOVE recursion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And that story had a comment just like yours linking to an even earlier story , and so on .
Slashdotters LOVE recursion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that story had a comment just like yours linking to an even earlier story, and so on.
Slashdotters LOVE recursion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254654</id>
	<title>Global warming already lost the data</title>
	<author>Anti Cheat</author>
	<datestamp>1266939960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well according to that last round of climate data falsification there has already been a digital dark age. The claim is the original source data has already been digitally lost. So no one can prove their numbers wrong, we just have to take their word for it, even though these same people have been caught fudging data that can be proven and not victim of digital  dark age.

I wonder if the tax man will believe me if I said it was a digital dark age so please take my word for those huge tax deductible donations I made.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well according to that last round of climate data falsification there has already been a digital dark age .
The claim is the original source data has already been digitally lost .
So no one can prove their numbers wrong , we just have to take their word for it , even though these same people have been caught fudging data that can be proven and not victim of digital dark age .
I wonder if the tax man will believe me if I said it was a digital dark age so please take my word for those huge tax deductible donations I made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well according to that last round of climate data falsification there has already been a digital dark age.
The claim is the original source data has already been digitally lost.
So no one can prove their numbers wrong, we just have to take their word for it, even though these same people have been caught fudging data that can be proven and not victim of digital  dark age.
I wonder if the tax man will believe me if I said it was a digital dark age so please take my word for those huge tax deductible donations I made.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31285798</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>zero0ne</author>
	<datestamp>1267203660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Somewhat exists already:</p><p><a href="http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs" title="allmydata.org" rel="nofollow">http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs</a> [allmydata.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somewhat exists already : http : //allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs [ allmydata.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somewhat exists already:http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs [allmydata.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256932</id>
	<title>Corollary: old media wiping</title>
	<author>LocalH</author>
	<datestamp>1265104620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in the old days, entertainment media was not seen as something worth preserving. Many media companies junked, trashed, or wiped content because they saw no need to preserve it for the future (or indeed were even contractually obligated to do so). As a result, there are hours upon hours, nay weeks upon weeks, of material that simply <b>does not exist anymore</b>. The story of the classic Doctor Who junkings comes to mind, where if a certain person had been stopped merely a year or so earlier, there would be many more existant stories on film than currently exist.</p><p>Nowadays, the problem is quite similar, although on a different scale. Many media organizations currently have excellent archival policies, such that even if material is not currently aired or sold, it is at least maintained in an archive somewhere. The problem lies with smaller-scale content (publically available and private), which doesn't demand the same archival treatment. Admittedly, a vast majority of this content is shit. However, for the benefit of future generations, we should strive to retain as much data as possible, and let them determine what is shit and what is worth keeping.</p><p>I'm all for letting future generations sift through my data. They'll mostly find crap, but if they see a few gems in there, all the better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in the old days , entertainment media was not seen as something worth preserving .
Many media companies junked , trashed , or wiped content because they saw no need to preserve it for the future ( or indeed were even contractually obligated to do so ) .
As a result , there are hours upon hours , nay weeks upon weeks , of material that simply does not exist anymore .
The story of the classic Doctor Who junkings comes to mind , where if a certain person had been stopped merely a year or so earlier , there would be many more existant stories on film than currently exist.Nowadays , the problem is quite similar , although on a different scale .
Many media organizations currently have excellent archival policies , such that even if material is not currently aired or sold , it is at least maintained in an archive somewhere .
The problem lies with smaller-scale content ( publically available and private ) , which does n't demand the same archival treatment .
Admittedly , a vast majority of this content is shit .
However , for the benefit of future generations , we should strive to retain as much data as possible , and let them determine what is shit and what is worth keeping.I 'm all for letting future generations sift through my data .
They 'll mostly find crap , but if they see a few gems in there , all the better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in the old days, entertainment media was not seen as something worth preserving.
Many media companies junked, trashed, or wiped content because they saw no need to preserve it for the future (or indeed were even contractually obligated to do so).
As a result, there are hours upon hours, nay weeks upon weeks, of material that simply does not exist anymore.
The story of the classic Doctor Who junkings comes to mind, where if a certain person had been stopped merely a year or so earlier, there would be many more existant stories on film than currently exist.Nowadays, the problem is quite similar, although on a different scale.
Many media organizations currently have excellent archival policies, such that even if material is not currently aired or sold, it is at least maintained in an archive somewhere.
The problem lies with smaller-scale content (publically available and private), which doesn't demand the same archival treatment.
Admittedly, a vast majority of this content is shit.
However, for the benefit of future generations, we should strive to retain as much data as possible, and let them determine what is shit and what is worth keeping.I'm all for letting future generations sift through my data.
They'll mostly find crap, but if they see a few gems in there, all the better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253524</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>jtownatpunk.net</author>
	<datestamp>1266932880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>/raises hand.</p><p>I still have the "utils" directory from my '286 even though the programs have been obsolete for a 'coon's age.  (A 'coon in captivity, that is.)  Every company I've worked at has had a "data refresh" plan of some sort where we move old archived data to new media.  And only one of those companies ever mined that data for a useful purpose.  The rest kept it "just in case".</p><p>I have a feeling the problem isn't going to be that we retain very little important information but that, of the vast mountain of crap we retain, a shocking small percentage will have any real value.  2 tons of chaff for every grain of wheat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>/raises hand.I still have the " utils " directory from my '286 even though the programs have been obsolete for a 'coon 's age .
( A 'coon in captivity , that is .
) Every company I 've worked at has had a " data refresh " plan of some sort where we move old archived data to new media .
And only one of those companies ever mined that data for a useful purpose .
The rest kept it " just in case " .I have a feeling the problem is n't going to be that we retain very little important information but that , of the vast mountain of crap we retain , a shocking small percentage will have any real value .
2 tons of chaff for every grain of wheat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>/raises hand.I still have the "utils" directory from my '286 even though the programs have been obsolete for a 'coon's age.
(A 'coon in captivity, that is.
)  Every company I've worked at has had a "data refresh" plan of some sort where we move old archived data to new media.
And only one of those companies ever mined that data for a useful purpose.
The rest kept it "just in case".I have a feeling the problem isn't going to be that we retain very little important information but that, of the vast mountain of crap we retain, a shocking small percentage will have any real value.
2 tons of chaff for every grain of wheat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253288</id>
	<title>Self-correcting problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266931740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we are generating data far, far faster than we can save.  We have for some time, and while trends for storage are catching up, we will always be able to generate more than we store, as a function of how computing and communications work.</p><p>So what to save?  The Director of the NLM had a unique insight on this exact question: [paraphrasing] "What is used, is saved."  Basically, its the utility of information, that information that people find useful and actually use is the best proxy for long term value.  The good thing is that all people are motivated to store and maintain the data they find useful, or their constituents or customers desire.  As long as people keep wanting data, it will be stored and available.</p><p>This is a very different situation to real-world archeology.  In the digital, connected world we can access data today once it's publicly available, evaluate it and use it if we want.  There is no dust that covers old data, it does not get buried...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we are generating data far , far faster than we can save .
We have for some time , and while trends for storage are catching up , we will always be able to generate more than we store , as a function of how computing and communications work.So what to save ?
The Director of the NLM had a unique insight on this exact question : [ paraphrasing ] " What is used , is saved .
" Basically , its the utility of information , that information that people find useful and actually use is the best proxy for long term value .
The good thing is that all people are motivated to store and maintain the data they find useful , or their constituents or customers desire .
As long as people keep wanting data , it will be stored and available.This is a very different situation to real-world archeology .
In the digital , connected world we can access data today once it 's publicly available , evaluate it and use it if we want .
There is no dust that covers old data , it does not get buried.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we are generating data far, far faster than we can save.
We have for some time, and while trends for storage are catching up, we will always be able to generate more than we store, as a function of how computing and communications work.So what to save?
The Director of the NLM had a unique insight on this exact question: [paraphrasing] "What is used, is saved.
"  Basically, its the utility of information, that information that people find useful and actually use is the best proxy for long term value.
The good thing is that all people are motivated to store and maintain the data they find useful, or their constituents or customers desire.
As long as people keep wanting data, it will be stored and available.This is a very different situation to real-world archeology.
In the digital, connected world we can access data today once it's publicly available, evaluate it and use it if we want.
There is no dust that covers old data, it does not get buried...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255212</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>Nimey</author>
	<datestamp>1266944040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, you must be a young'un.  Geoshitties was famous for having a tiny bandwidth cap, something on the order of 10MB per day (or week?) per account.  I'm sure the good folks at archive.org didn't want to be constantly DoSing peoples' webpages, so they didn't bother backing up that site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , you must be a young'un .
Geoshitties was famous for having a tiny bandwidth cap , something on the order of 10MB per day ( or week ?
) per account .
I 'm sure the good folks at archive.org did n't want to be constantly DoSing peoples ' webpages , so they did n't bother backing up that site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, you must be a young'un.
Geoshitties was famous for having a tiny bandwidth cap, something on the order of 10MB per day (or week?
) per account.
I'm sure the good folks at archive.org didn't want to be constantly DoSing peoples' webpages, so they didn't bother backing up that site.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253204</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>pookemon</author>
	<datestamp>1266931320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I still have all the floppies and HDD's from my Amiga (and the ones I've bothered to look at in the last couple of years do still work).  The question is more how many of us have files from 15 or 20 years ago that we want/need to read?  I undoubtably have assembler code on the Amiga, and my C code from my Mac development at UNI.  I might one day look at it and revisit the "good ol days" - which is exactly why I still have my Amiga tucked away in a box.  But I doubt it.<br> <br>
Of course I am probably in the excessively rare situation where code that I wrote 10+ years ago is still code that I work with.  Granted it was originally written in VB 4/5 and it's now written in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 2k8 - and that specific code is rarely modified - but i could probably go back and look at the original code if I wanted (I've certainly got enough copies of it lying around between backups to CD/DVD/Subversion/VSS HDD's etc.<br> <br>
But for now I will keep my copy of my UNI code on it's floppy secured to the filing cabinet with the Neodymium magnet I bought specifically for the purpose.  That way I'll know exactly where it is when I find a 15 year old Mac that'll read it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I still have all the floppies and HDD 's from my Amiga ( and the ones I 've bothered to look at in the last couple of years do still work ) .
The question is more how many of us have files from 15 or 20 years ago that we want/need to read ?
I undoubtably have assembler code on the Amiga , and my C code from my Mac development at UNI .
I might one day look at it and revisit the " good ol days " - which is exactly why I still have my Amiga tucked away in a box .
But I doubt it .
Of course I am probably in the excessively rare situation where code that I wrote 10 + years ago is still code that I work with .
Granted it was originally written in VB 4/5 and it 's now written in .NET 2k8 - and that specific code is rarely modified - but i could probably go back and look at the original code if I wanted ( I 've certainly got enough copies of it lying around between backups to CD/DVD/Subversion/VSS HDD 's etc .
But for now I will keep my copy of my UNI code on it 's floppy secured to the filing cabinet with the Neodymium magnet I bought specifically for the purpose .
That way I 'll know exactly where it is when I find a 15 year old Mac that 'll read it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still have all the floppies and HDD's from my Amiga (and the ones I've bothered to look at in the last couple of years do still work).
The question is more how many of us have files from 15 or 20 years ago that we want/need to read?
I undoubtably have assembler code on the Amiga, and my C code from my Mac development at UNI.
I might one day look at it and revisit the "good ol days" - which is exactly why I still have my Amiga tucked away in a box.
But I doubt it.
Of course I am probably in the excessively rare situation where code that I wrote 10+ years ago is still code that I work with.
Granted it was originally written in VB 4/5 and it's now written in .NET 2k8 - and that specific code is rarely modified - but i could probably go back and look at the original code if I wanted (I've certainly got enough copies of it lying around between backups to CD/DVD/Subversion/VSS HDD's etc.
But for now I will keep my copy of my UNI code on it's floppy secured to the filing cabinet with the Neodymium magnet I bought specifically for the purpose.
That way I'll know exactly where it is when I find a 15 year old Mac that'll read it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31266228</id>
	<title>Re:File formats vs physical media</title>
	<author>mattpalmer1086</author>
	<datestamp>1265112600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are right about the issue being file formats and physical media, but you are dead wrong about the risks.    You have to distinguish between rescuing something which is already obsolete vs. keeping something "alive" as you go along.</p><p>If you're talking about rescuing obsolete stuff, then it ranges from hard to impossible, mostly because it generally isn't economic to recreate older media readers.  For file formats, it's also expensive, but for some formats will be possible.</p><p>If you're talking about migrating information, then physical media is essentially irrelevant, and the process is a no-brainer (large volumes may pose problems, but they aren't media issues).  However, migrating unstructured information with complex content (e.g. documents with macros) to new formats is extremely hard (if not impossible), as each format has different capabilities.  It just isn't possible to transform the information losslessly.  Over time, this inevitably results in information loss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are right about the issue being file formats and physical media , but you are dead wrong about the risks .
You have to distinguish between rescuing something which is already obsolete vs. keeping something " alive " as you go along.If you 're talking about rescuing obsolete stuff , then it ranges from hard to impossible , mostly because it generally is n't economic to recreate older media readers .
For file formats , it 's also expensive , but for some formats will be possible.If you 're talking about migrating information , then physical media is essentially irrelevant , and the process is a no-brainer ( large volumes may pose problems , but they are n't media issues ) .
However , migrating unstructured information with complex content ( e.g .
documents with macros ) to new formats is extremely hard ( if not impossible ) , as each format has different capabilities .
It just is n't possible to transform the information losslessly .
Over time , this inevitably results in information loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are right about the issue being file formats and physical media, but you are dead wrong about the risks.
You have to distinguish between rescuing something which is already obsolete vs. keeping something "alive" as you go along.If you're talking about rescuing obsolete stuff, then it ranges from hard to impossible, mostly because it generally isn't economic to recreate older media readers.
For file formats, it's also expensive, but for some formats will be possible.If you're talking about migrating information, then physical media is essentially irrelevant, and the process is a no-brainer (large volumes may pose problems, but they aren't media issues).
However, migrating unstructured information with complex content (e.g.
documents with macros) to new formats is extremely hard (if not impossible), as each format has different capabilities.
It just isn't possible to transform the information losslessly.
Over time, this inevitably results in information loss.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253534</id>
	<title>Re:Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1266932880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>bad choice!  jpeg is lossy format, information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction!</p><p>you're like the guy in the India Jones movie who drinks from a fancy chalice, has the flesh and guts dissolve and burn from his bones:  "...he chose....poorly....."</p><p>really, if you value your work do a little research, maybe standard such as  "TIFF Revision 6.0 Final" or similar should be used, and perhaps with widely known and well documented lossless compression.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>bad choice !
jpeg is lossy format , information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction ! you 're like the guy in the India Jones movie who drinks from a fancy chalice , has the flesh and guts dissolve and burn from his bones : " ...he chose....poorly..... " really , if you value your work do a little research , maybe standard such as " TIFF Revision 6.0 Final " or similar should be used , and perhaps with widely known and well documented lossless compression .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>bad choice!
jpeg is lossy format, information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction!you're like the guy in the India Jones movie who drinks from a fancy chalice, has the flesh and guts dissolve and burn from his bones:  "...he chose....poorly....."really, if you value your work do a little research, maybe standard such as  "TIFF Revision 6.0 Final" or similar should be used, and perhaps with widely known and well documented lossless compression.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253458</id>
	<title>File formats vs physical media</title>
	<author>Chuq</author>
	<datestamp>1266932520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This topic involves two vastly different things:</p><p>- File formats - easy - just make sure everything is stored in an open format, or something so ubiquitous its as good as an open format (odt, txt, jpg, pdf, csv, ogg, etc) and it will be readable forever.</p><p>- Physical media - this is the risk - most new machines these days can't read 3 1/2" floppies, let alone anything older, but so long as you migrate contents of your old physical media onto new media formats - AND you have multiple copies of important stuff - that shouldn't be a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This topic involves two vastly different things : - File formats - easy - just make sure everything is stored in an open format , or something so ubiquitous its as good as an open format ( odt , txt , jpg , pdf , csv , ogg , etc ) and it will be readable forever.- Physical media - this is the risk - most new machines these days ca n't read 3 1/2 " floppies , let alone anything older , but so long as you migrate contents of your old physical media onto new media formats - AND you have multiple copies of important stuff - that should n't be a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This topic involves two vastly different things:- File formats - easy - just make sure everything is stored in an open format, or something so ubiquitous its as good as an open format (odt, txt, jpg, pdf, csv, ogg, etc) and it will be readable forever.- Physical media - this is the risk - most new machines these days can't read 3 1/2" floppies, let alone anything older, but so long as you migrate contents of your old physical media onto new media formats - AND you have multiple copies of important stuff - that shouldn't be a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255928</id>
	<title>like an odd sock</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1266950520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>this is the same shit story that keeps popping up on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. ever 6 months or so.<p>
typically kdawson posts it, what a tard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is the same shit story that keeps popping up on / .
ever 6 months or so .
typically kdawson posts it , what a tard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is the same shit story that keeps popping up on /.
ever 6 months or so.
typically kdawson posts it, what a tard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253444</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1266932460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>We can scan in the surface pits of the laser disk at high-enough resolution to decrypt the bit patterns - we no longer need the original readers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We can scan in the surface pits of the laser disk at high-enough resolution to decrypt the bit patterns - we no longer need the original readers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can scan in the surface pits of the laser disk at high-enough resolution to decrypt the bit patterns - we no longer need the original readers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253304</id>
	<title>Silicon Is the New Stone Tablet</title>
	<author>rebelscience</author>
	<datestamp>1266931800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forget CDs, DVDs, magnetic media, etc. All data should be stored in solid state devices. Google knows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget CDs , DVDs , magnetic media , etc .
All data should be stored in solid state devices .
Google knows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget CDs, DVDs, magnetic media, etc.
All data should be stored in solid state devices.
Google knows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</id>
	<title>The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266929880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone <em>copied</em> it.  Lots of copies.  Sometimes translated into another language and back, for example, a lot of Greek learning went into Arabic and came back out into Latin or Greek.

With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone copied it .
Lots of copies .
Sometimes translated into another language and back , for example , a lot of Greek learning went into Arabic and came back out into Latin or Greek .
With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today , can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone copied it.
Lots of copies.
Sometimes translated into another language and back, for example, a lot of Greek learning went into Arabic and came back out into Latin or Greek.
With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</id>
	<title>Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>presidenteloco</author>
	<datestamp>1266930600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that many people are failing to appreciate the longevity of information preservation<br>that cloud computing (more specifically, redundant, geographically distributed network storage) can bring.</p><p>If we get the protocols right, and insist on open standards for data interchange, we can obtain<br>properties such as:</p><p>Data bundles that know how to move themselves to more recently commissioned, and/or more<br>reliable hosts.</p><p>Data bundles that know how to check in with copies of themselves, to make sure there are enough of<br>them alive, and that they are adequately geographically distributed, at every given moment.<br>If not, then more baby copies of the same data would be produced and stored elsewhere automatically.</p><p>There are other issues to longevity of course, like maintenance of software that understands different<br>versions of data etc. Not trivial but very doable.</p><p>How long an individual disk or SSD or stone tablet lasts is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to<br>the prospects for information longevity, given the network, and new levels of automated distribution<br>that will take place on it going forward.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that many people are failing to appreciate the longevity of information preservationthat cloud computing ( more specifically , redundant , geographically distributed network storage ) can bring.If we get the protocols right , and insist on open standards for data interchange , we can obtainproperties such as : Data bundles that know how to move themselves to more recently commissioned , and/or morereliable hosts.Data bundles that know how to check in with copies of themselves , to make sure there are enough ofthem alive , and that they are adequately geographically distributed , at every given moment.If not , then more baby copies of the same data would be produced and stored elsewhere automatically.There are other issues to longevity of course , like maintenance of software that understands differentversions of data etc .
Not trivial but very doable.How long an individual disk or SSD or stone tablet lasts is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT tothe prospects for information longevity , given the network , and new levels of automated distributionthat will take place on it going forward .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that many people are failing to appreciate the longevity of information preservationthat cloud computing (more specifically, redundant, geographically distributed network storage) can bring.If we get the protocols right, and insist on open standards for data interchange, we can obtainproperties such as:Data bundles that know how to move themselves to more recently commissioned, and/or morereliable hosts.Data bundles that know how to check in with copies of themselves, to make sure there are enough ofthem alive, and that they are adequately geographically distributed, at every given moment.If not, then more baby copies of the same data would be produced and stored elsewhere automatically.There are other issues to longevity of course, like maintenance of software that understands differentversions of data etc.
Not trivial but very doable.How long an individual disk or SSD or stone tablet lasts is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT tothe prospects for information longevity, given the network, and new levels of automated distributionthat will take place on it going forward.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252910</id>
	<title>Quick...</title>
	<author>eegad</author>
	<datestamp>1266929940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everybody print out all their emails!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everybody print out all their emails ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everybody print out all their emails!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253058</id>
	<title>PLASTIC PUNCH CARDS</title>
	<author>Marxist Hacker 42</author>
	<datestamp>1266930660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Far outlasts stone, and if you did it right I'll bet you could get nearly 1Mbit per card without running into the problems of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lace\_card" title="wikipedia.org">Lace Cards</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Far outlasts stone , and if you did it right I 'll bet you could get nearly 1Mbit per card without running into the problems of Lace Cards [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Far outlasts stone, and if you did it right I'll bet you could get nearly 1Mbit per card without running into the problems of Lace Cards [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256418</id>
	<title>Re:Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1265141940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone that's collected 100,000s of pictures and verified them against CSVs, I can just say that this "bit flip" paranoia is in fact mostly paranoia. 99\% of the time it's a complete media or process failure like say a broken network connection or computer freezeup or whatever. And even on the few occasions it does happen it's often not very visible, and normally a single picture is not the big deal. It's losing the whole collection with all photos of some family member or event that is a disaster. If it was really such a big problem as some make it out to be, applications would randomly stop working all the time, as they're very sensitive to the smallest change. That just doesn't happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone that 's collected 100,000s of pictures and verified them against CSVs , I can just say that this " bit flip " paranoia is in fact mostly paranoia .
99 \ % of the time it 's a complete media or process failure like say a broken network connection or computer freezeup or whatever .
And even on the few occasions it does happen it 's often not very visible , and normally a single picture is not the big deal .
It 's losing the whole collection with all photos of some family member or event that is a disaster .
If it was really such a big problem as some make it out to be , applications would randomly stop working all the time , as they 're very sensitive to the smallest change .
That just does n't happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone that's collected 100,000s of pictures and verified them against CSVs, I can just say that this "bit flip" paranoia is in fact mostly paranoia.
99\% of the time it's a complete media or process failure like say a broken network connection or computer freezeup or whatever.
And even on the few occasions it does happen it's often not very visible, and normally a single picture is not the big deal.
It's losing the whole collection with all photos of some family member or event that is a disaster.
If it was really such a big problem as some make it out to be, applications would randomly stop working all the time, as they're very sensitive to the smallest change.
That just doesn't happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252924</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1266930000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>right on, and for that matter it is silly to say we don't have paper records any more.  We have even more of them than ever before.  Receipts, leases, mortgages, contracts, invoices, manifests, packing slips, explanation of benefits (EOB), licenses, warranties, guarantees, manuals....fuck, if anyone thinks digital age means less just order a single piece of software on Amazon and by the you take everything out of the box you'll have generated at least eight items on the list I just mentioned.  God damn!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>right on , and for that matter it is silly to say we do n't have paper records any more .
We have even more of them than ever before .
Receipts , leases , mortgages , contracts , invoices , manifests , packing slips , explanation of benefits ( EOB ) , licenses , warranties , guarantees , manuals....fuck , if anyone thinks digital age means less just order a single piece of software on Amazon and by the you take everything out of the box you 'll have generated at least eight items on the list I just mentioned .
God damn !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>right on, and for that matter it is silly to say we don't have paper records any more.
We have even more of them than ever before.
Receipts, leases, mortgages, contracts, invoices, manifests, packing slips, explanation of benefits (EOB), licenses, warranties, guarantees, manuals....fuck, if anyone thinks digital age means less just order a single piece of software on Amazon and by the you take everything out of the box you'll have generated at least eight items on the list I just mentioned.
God damn!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256908</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Ravenger</author>
	<datestamp>1265104380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to be a c64 artist back in the 80's and I've still got my artwork from that era. Most have been converted to modern file formats, but I still have some in the original Koala Painter format as well - That's files 24 years old. I also have some print-outs of basic programs from a few years before that.</p><p>I did lose some of my artwork over the years, but I managed to get nearly all of it back (bar a couple of my really early pictures) via the internet from various C64 archives or from individual users sending me files. In one case someone sent me one of my pictures I'd totally forgotten about. So archiving digital digital data in a usable format may be a concern, but without the internet I'd never have been able to retrieve my lost work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be a c64 artist back in the 80 's and I 've still got my artwork from that era .
Most have been converted to modern file formats , but I still have some in the original Koala Painter format as well - That 's files 24 years old .
I also have some print-outs of basic programs from a few years before that.I did lose some of my artwork over the years , but I managed to get nearly all of it back ( bar a couple of my really early pictures ) via the internet from various C64 archives or from individual users sending me files .
In one case someone sent me one of my pictures I 'd totally forgotten about .
So archiving digital digital data in a usable format may be a concern , but without the internet I 'd never have been able to retrieve my lost work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be a c64 artist back in the 80's and I've still got my artwork from that era.
Most have been converted to modern file formats, but I still have some in the original Koala Painter format as well - That's files 24 years old.
I also have some print-outs of basic programs from a few years before that.I did lose some of my artwork over the years, but I managed to get nearly all of it back (bar a couple of my really early pictures) via the internet from various C64 archives or from individual users sending me files.
In one case someone sent me one of my pictures I'd totally forgotten about.
So archiving digital digital data in a usable format may be a concern, but without the internet I'd never have been able to retrieve my lost work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256658</id>
	<title>Re:Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265101380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Should not any decent file system do it itrself?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should not any decent file system do it itrself ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should not any decent file system do it itrself?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</id>
	<title>The fight is lost</title>
	<author>MeNeXT</author>
	<datestamp>1266929640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today? 20 years? There was no DMCA back then, now just imagine the future....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today ?
20 years ?
There was no DMCA back then , now just imagine the future... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today?
20 years?
There was no DMCA back then, now just imagine the future....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</id>
	<title>Won't matter</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1266929400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our landfills will provide all the info they need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our landfills will provide all the info they need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our landfills will provide all the info they need.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253844</id>
	<title>Consumer demand will fix this.</title>
	<author>Seor Jojoba</author>
	<datestamp>1266934560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not worried.  We are pretty soon going to have a bunch of people that are heartbroken about their data from 10 years ago being lost.  The travel photos, the e-mailed love letters, the brilliant blog posts.  And these people will create demand for longer-term storage and data collection techniques we don't have now.  Why should it happen in the near future if it hasn't already?  Because we first needed a generation of people that use computers and the internet as the primary way of expressing their life.  Nobody was in that boat ten years ago.  Now anybody reading this is.  So consumer-grade "lifetime" storage options will enjoy a more prominent place on the market.  And if you can get some old data to stick around for a half century or more, the value of it bumps up to "time capsule" status.  Which means somebody might think to archive your mess of media around the time you die.  Maybe some younger cousin of yours will take care of it.  Heck, funeral parlors might offer data archival as a service 20 years from now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not worried .
We are pretty soon going to have a bunch of people that are heartbroken about their data from 10 years ago being lost .
The travel photos , the e-mailed love letters , the brilliant blog posts .
And these people will create demand for longer-term storage and data collection techniques we do n't have now .
Why should it happen in the near future if it has n't already ?
Because we first needed a generation of people that use computers and the internet as the primary way of expressing their life .
Nobody was in that boat ten years ago .
Now anybody reading this is .
So consumer-grade " lifetime " storage options will enjoy a more prominent place on the market .
And if you can get some old data to stick around for a half century or more , the value of it bumps up to " time capsule " status .
Which means somebody might think to archive your mess of media around the time you die .
Maybe some younger cousin of yours will take care of it .
Heck , funeral parlors might offer data archival as a service 20 years from now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not worried.
We are pretty soon going to have a bunch of people that are heartbroken about their data from 10 years ago being lost.
The travel photos, the e-mailed love letters, the brilliant blog posts.
And these people will create demand for longer-term storage and data collection techniques we don't have now.
Why should it happen in the near future if it hasn't already?
Because we first needed a generation of people that use computers and the internet as the primary way of expressing their life.
Nobody was in that boat ten years ago.
Now anybody reading this is.
So consumer-grade "lifetime" storage options will enjoy a more prominent place on the market.
And if you can get some old data to stick around for a half century or more, the value of it bumps up to "time capsule" status.
Which means somebody might think to archive your mess of media around the time you die.
Maybe some younger cousin of yours will take care of it.
Heck, funeral parlors might offer data archival as a service 20 years from now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256758</id>
	<title>Tyler's Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265102760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Always backup in hard copy."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Always backup in hard copy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Always backup in hard copy.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253130</id>
	<title>Not so hard</title>
	<author>T Murphy</author>
	<datestamp>1266931020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just put a massive data server in a spaceship and accelerate it near the speed of light. Data loss would be slowed enough that it would be negligible, and if we have to retrieve anything it should have a fast enough processor to respond to a request in a timely fashion and send off a pre-made copy of the needed data (as it may take too long to copy petabytes at near light speed).<br> <br>

This should work out perfectly- by the time we have the technology to do this, today's worthwhile material should finally be coming out of copyright.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put a massive data server in a spaceship and accelerate it near the speed of light .
Data loss would be slowed enough that it would be negligible , and if we have to retrieve anything it should have a fast enough processor to respond to a request in a timely fashion and send off a pre-made copy of the needed data ( as it may take too long to copy petabytes at near light speed ) .
This should work out perfectly- by the time we have the technology to do this , today 's worthwhile material should finally be coming out of copyright .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put a massive data server in a spaceship and accelerate it near the speed of light.
Data loss would be slowed enough that it would be negligible, and if we have to retrieve anything it should have a fast enough processor to respond to a request in a timely fashion and send off a pre-made copy of the needed data (as it may take too long to copy petabytes at near light speed).
This should work out perfectly- by the time we have the technology to do this, today's worthwhile material should finally be coming out of copyright.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31268088</id>
	<title>Re:Great! Now I'll have to buy the White Album aga</title>
	<author>Lunzo</author>
	<datestamp>1265127180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg's big invention.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
<tt>Hallo, Welt!</tt></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg 's big invention .
Hallo , Welt !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg's big invention.
Hallo, Welt!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255518</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266946740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do.  I've got source code I wrote in microbee basic, old assignments from early highschool... you name it.  Takes up only an insignificant portion of my hard-drive and still reads fine in the emulator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do .
I 've got source code I wrote in microbee basic , old assignments from early highschool... you name it .
Takes up only an insignificant portion of my hard-drive and still reads fine in the emulator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do.
I've got source code I wrote in microbee basic, old assignments from early highschool... you name it.
Takes up only an insignificant portion of my hard-drive and still reads fine in the emulator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253578</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266933120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most likely because of the bandwidth limits. When I tried wgetting my Geocities page it failed about halfway through because I had gone over my allowed bandwidth for the time period(I had quite a few pictures on there).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most likely because of the bandwidth limits .
When I tried wgetting my Geocities page it failed about halfway through because I had gone over my allowed bandwidth for the time period ( I had quite a few pictures on there ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most likely because of the bandwidth limits.
When I tried wgetting my Geocities page it failed about halfway through because I had gone over my allowed bandwidth for the time period(I had quite a few pictures on there).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256608</id>
	<title>Future Generations</title>
	<author>TandooriC</author>
	<datestamp>1265143860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would really love to see the expression on their faces when they find that Rick Roll video.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would really love to see the expression on their faces when they find that Rick Roll video .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would really love to see the expression on their faces when they find that Rick Roll video.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254038</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>turbidostato</author>
	<datestamp>1266935640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"And what parts of those digital records would be *important* information? c'mon, you are talking about personal crap."</p><p>What do you think History is but a lot of "personal craps" tied together?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" And what parts of those digital records would be * important * information ?
c'mon , you are talking about personal crap .
" What do you think History is but a lot of " personal craps " tied together ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"And what parts of those digital records would be *important* information?
c'mon, you are talking about personal crap.
"What do you think History is but a lot of "personal craps" tied together?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253290</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254366</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>guspasho</author>
	<datestamp>1266938100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This assumes that the information age lasts forever. Technology continuously improves and human civilization survives without interruption. And most importantly, that information survives brief or even extended periods of irrelevance.</p><p>Basically, your answer to how to survive a digital dark age is to assume that one will never occur?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This assumes that the information age lasts forever .
Technology continuously improves and human civilization survives without interruption .
And most importantly , that information survives brief or even extended periods of irrelevance.Basically , your answer to how to survive a digital dark age is to assume that one will never occur ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This assumes that the information age lasts forever.
Technology continuously improves and human civilization survives without interruption.
And most importantly, that information survives brief or even extended periods of irrelevance.Basically, your answer to how to survive a digital dark age is to assume that one will never occur?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252968</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>NotQuiteReal</author>
	<datestamp>1266930180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have files from at least as far back as 1982 (Z80 source code). Of course they are not on their original media (which, might of been 8" floppies, I really don't recall.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have files from at least as far back as 1982 ( Z80 source code ) .
Of course they are not on their original media ( which , might of been 8 " floppies , I really do n't recall .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have files from at least as far back as 1982 (Z80 source code).
Of course they are not on their original media (which, might of been 8" floppies, I really don't recall.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253164</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>jaavaaguru</author>
	<datestamp>1266931140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean like archive.org? I actually went there recently to look at old Geocities, and was shocked that they don't have it all backed up there. Archive.org has pretty much everything else I've looked for. Any idea why geocities is not there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean like archive.org ?
I actually went there recently to look at old Geocities , and was shocked that they do n't have it all backed up there .
Archive.org has pretty much everything else I 've looked for .
Any idea why geocities is not there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean like archive.org?
I actually went there recently to look at old Geocities, and was shocked that they don't have it all backed up there.
Archive.org has pretty much everything else I've looked for.
Any idea why geocities is not there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</id>
	<title>924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266931440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Domesday Book was commisioned in December 1085 by King William (aka William the Conqueror, who invaded ngland in 1066).  The first  draft was completed in August 1086 and contained records for 13,418 settlements in the English counties south of the rivers Ribble and Tees (the border with Scotland at the time).   It is a detailed statement of lands held by he king and by his tenants  and of the resources that went with those lands.  It records which manors rightfully belonged to which estates, thus ending years of confusion resulting from the gradual and sometimes violent dispossession of the Anglo-Saxons by their Norman conquerors.</p><p>In 1986, at a cost of &pound;2.5 million, the UK compiled the contents of the Domesday Book into electronic form that was stored on laserdiscs.  The information stored on the laserdiscs, which is the equivalent of several  sets of encyclopedias, is now unreadable because the equipment needed  to read the discs is no longer available.  Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Domesday Book was commisioned in December 1085 by King William ( aka William the Conqueror , who invaded ngland in 1066 ) .
The first draft was completed in August 1086 and contained records for 13,418 settlements in the English counties south of the rivers Ribble and Tees ( the border with Scotland at the time ) .
It is a detailed statement of lands held by he king and by his tenants and of the resources that went with those lands .
It records which manors rightfully belonged to which estates , thus ending years of confusion resulting from the gradual and sometimes violent dispossession of the Anglo-Saxons by their Norman conquerors.In 1986 , at a cost of   2.5 million , the UK compiled the contents of the Domesday Book into electronic form that was stored on laserdiscs .
The information stored on the laserdiscs , which is the equivalent of several sets of encyclopedias , is now unreadable because the equipment needed to read the discs is no longer available .
Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Domesday Book was commisioned in December 1085 by King William (aka William the Conqueror, who invaded ngland in 1066).
The first  draft was completed in August 1086 and contained records for 13,418 settlements in the English counties south of the rivers Ribble and Tees (the border with Scotland at the time).
It is a detailed statement of lands held by he king and by his tenants  and of the resources that went with those lands.
It records which manors rightfully belonged to which estates, thus ending years of confusion resulting from the gradual and sometimes violent dispossession of the Anglo-Saxons by their Norman conquerors.In 1986, at a cost of £2.5 million, the UK compiled the contents of the Domesday Book into electronic form that was stored on laserdiscs.
The information stored on the laserdiscs, which is the equivalent of several  sets of encyclopedias, is now unreadable because the equipment needed  to read the discs is no longer available.
Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254452</id>
	<title>What software are you using for checksum?</title>
	<author>Hyperhaplo</author>
	<datestamp>1266938580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... and how are you storing the checksum information?</p><p>It would be nice to have checksum information, eg MD5, on *all* files in any OS (in the file metadata).. but given that this is not a critical requirement for today's desktop systems I don't see it happening any time soon.</p><p>What I'd like is to have all files hashed natively by the OS and have that information available when required.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... and how are you storing the checksum information ? It would be nice to have checksum information , eg MD5 , on * all * files in any OS ( in the file metadata ) .. but given that this is not a critical requirement for today 's desktop systems I do n't see it happening any time soon.What I 'd like is to have all files hashed natively by the OS and have that information available when required .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and how are you storing the checksum information?It would be nice to have checksum information, eg MD5, on *all* files in any OS (in the file metadata).. but given that this is not a critical requirement for today's desktop systems I don't see it happening any time soon.What I'd like is to have all files hashed natively by the OS and have that information available when required.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255628</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>Staniel</author>
	<datestamp>1266947760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I keep thinking about the parallels of this with the older digital media of hand-copied books. Computers are much better than humans at copying data exactly, but much worse at understanding data once a small part of it has been corrupted.</p><p>We don't have to trust one neurotic monk anymore, but it's still possible for small corruptions to leak in. I wonder which has better data integrity: paintings inside a dark, windless cave, or a bunch of computers yelling ON and OFF at each other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep thinking about the parallels of this with the older digital media of hand-copied books .
Computers are much better than humans at copying data exactly , but much worse at understanding data once a small part of it has been corrupted.We do n't have to trust one neurotic monk anymore , but it 's still possible for small corruptions to leak in .
I wonder which has better data integrity : paintings inside a dark , windless cave , or a bunch of computers yelling ON and OFF at each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep thinking about the parallels of this with the older digital media of hand-copied books.
Computers are much better than humans at copying data exactly, but much worse at understanding data once a small part of it has been corrupted.We don't have to trust one neurotic monk anymore, but it's still possible for small corruptions to leak in.
I wonder which has better data integrity: paintings inside a dark, windless cave, or a bunch of computers yelling ON and OFF at each other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31260578</id>
	<title>laserdisc players are still available</title>
	<author>vaporland</author>
	<datestamp>1265131980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>they are available on ebay, craigslist, etc. I have bought several and they work fine!</htmltext>
<tokenext>they are available on ebay , craigslist , etc .
I have bought several and they work fine !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they are available on ebay, craigslist, etc.
I have bought several and they work fine!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256078</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>dcollins</author>
	<datestamp>1266952140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"That's one advantage of paper, stone and parchment - they don't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them."</p><p>Written language is itself a technical infrastructure. Your Mayan ropes are an excellent example of that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" That 's one advantage of paper , stone and parchment - they do n't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them .
" Written language is itself a technical infrastructure .
Your Mayan ropes are an excellent example of that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"That's one advantage of paper, stone and parchment - they don't assume a technical infrastructure in order to use them.
"Written language is itself a technical infrastructure.
Your Mayan ropes are an excellent example of that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255786</id>
	<title>Re:To forget is good</title>
	<author>donleclaire</author>
	<datestamp>1266949260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>... but we all live in the future, all the time.</p></div><p>No, we all live in the present, all the time. 'The future' is just an idea in your mind, a mental projection.

Besides, the future isn't what it use to be<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... but we all live in the future , all the time.No , we all live in the present , all the time .
'The future ' is just an idea in your mind , a mental projection .
Besides , the future is n't what it use to be ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but we all live in the future, all the time.No, we all live in the present, all the time.
'The future' is just an idea in your mind, a mental projection.
Besides, the future isn't what it use to be ;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253806</id>
	<title>They will not care</title>
	<author>kikito</author>
	<datestamp>1266934320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The future generations will just not care about us. Just stop thinking about this already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The future generations will just not care about us .
Just stop thinking about this already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The future generations will just not care about us.
Just stop thinking about this already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253026</id>
	<title>To forget is good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266930540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMHO we'll find that our problem is that we drown in a sea of useless information because we can't find the islands of relevance. Trying to archive everything will only lead to failing to archive anything. On the other hand I doubt that we'll lose much important information despite failing at organized preservation attempts, because important information is copied all the time, which is the only way for information to survive quickly changing technologies and file formats anyway.</p><p>In a more philosophical light, I think that forgetting is good for us. It frees us from the constraints of our past and makes way for new ideas. Archives are backwards-facing, but we all live in the future, all the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO we 'll find that our problem is that we drown in a sea of useless information because we ca n't find the islands of relevance .
Trying to archive everything will only lead to failing to archive anything .
On the other hand I doubt that we 'll lose much important information despite failing at organized preservation attempts , because important information is copied all the time , which is the only way for information to survive quickly changing technologies and file formats anyway.In a more philosophical light , I think that forgetting is good for us .
It frees us from the constraints of our past and makes way for new ideas .
Archives are backwards-facing , but we all live in the future , all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO we'll find that our problem is that we drown in a sea of useless information because we can't find the islands of relevance.
Trying to archive everything will only lead to failing to archive anything.
On the other hand I doubt that we'll lose much important information despite failing at organized preservation attempts, because important information is copied all the time, which is the only way for information to survive quickly changing technologies and file formats anyway.In a more philosophical light, I think that forgetting is good for us.
It frees us from the constraints of our past and makes way for new ideas.
Archives are backwards-facing, but we all live in the future, all the time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254238</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>khellendros1984</author>
	<datestamp>1266936960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I still have a working Atari and a few dozen game cartridges, if those count...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I still have a working Atari and a few dozen game cartridges , if those count.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still have a working Atari and a few dozen game cartridges, if those count...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253366</id>
	<title>Burn them all</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1266932100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At how much Farenheit the digital records combust? Wont be so dark that ages, at least while the fire last.

</p><p>A century later, we will still will find buried snapshots of wikipedia on devices like <a href="http://thewikireader.com/index.html" title="thewikireader.com">WikiReader</a> [thewikireader.com].With paper books making copies is expensive,to one kind of device usually, and takes a lot of space. Digital records,in the other hand,could be put in a lot of ways, but what must be preserved is how to decode or interpret it (using open formats for it could help a bit there).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At how much Farenheit the digital records combust ?
Wont be so dark that ages , at least while the fire last .
A century later , we will still will find buried snapshots of wikipedia on devices like WikiReader [ thewikireader.com ] .With paper books making copies is expensive,to one kind of device usually , and takes a lot of space .
Digital records,in the other hand,could be put in a lot of ways , but what must be preserved is how to decode or interpret it ( using open formats for it could help a bit there ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At how much Farenheit the digital records combust?
Wont be so dark that ages, at least while the fire last.
A century later, we will still will find buried snapshots of wikipedia on devices like WikiReader [thewikireader.com].With paper books making copies is expensive,to one kind of device usually, and takes a lot of space.
Digital records,in the other hand,could be put in a lot of ways, but what must be preserved is how to decode or interpret it (using open formats for it could help a bit there).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255974</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>antdude</author>
	<datestamp>1266951180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://archive.org/" title="archive.org">http://archive.org/</a> [archive.org] has the copies of GeoCities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //archive.org/ [ archive.org ] has the copies of GeoCities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://archive.org/ [archive.org] has the copies of GeoCities.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255796</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Rennt</author>
	<datestamp>1266949320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I took the GP to mean all our non-biodegradable trash will still be here, even if our data isn't. 1000's of years from now they will be able to determine our diet, occupations and pastimes without the need for digital data.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I took the GP to mean all our non-biodegradable trash will still be here , even if our data is n't .
1000 's of years from now they will be able to determine our diet , occupations and pastimes without the need for digital data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I took the GP to mean all our non-biodegradable trash will still be here, even if our data isn't.
1000's of years from now they will be able to determine our diet, occupations and pastimes without the need for digital data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252880</id>
	<title>sadly lawyers are working tirelessly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266929760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to ensure this never happens.  This is the same reason why DVD's and Bluerays will never work in 100 years time.</p><p>DRM will destroy any record of our current culture, but looking around at the abyss, I really have to say its for the better.</p><p>But I already feel bad for the eventual people that will spend far too much time trying to recover "scary movie part 15" or some other 'gem' from our time.  But much like 'abandonware' and other areas of trying preserve machine code, lawyers will always race in to make sure all copies are lost forever.</p><p>Support things like SIMH while you still can!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to ensure this never happens .
This is the same reason why DVD 's and Bluerays will never work in 100 years time.DRM will destroy any record of our current culture , but looking around at the abyss , I really have to say its for the better.But I already feel bad for the eventual people that will spend far too much time trying to recover " scary movie part 15 " or some other 'gem ' from our time .
But much like 'abandonware ' and other areas of trying preserve machine code , lawyers will always race in to make sure all copies are lost forever.Support things like SIMH while you still can !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to ensure this never happens.
This is the same reason why DVD's and Bluerays will never work in 100 years time.DRM will destroy any record of our current culture, but looking around at the abyss, I really have to say its for the better.But I already feel bad for the eventual people that will spend far too much time trying to recover "scary movie part 15" or some other 'gem' from our time.
But much like 'abandonware' and other areas of trying preserve machine code, lawyers will always race in to make sure all copies are lost forever.Support things like SIMH while you still can!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253898</id>
	<title>Practical example : Classics emulation</title>
	<author>DrYak</author>
	<datestamp>1266934920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone copied  it. Lots of copies. {...} With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?</p></div><p>(And as another example of copies being important for preserving : Fritz Lang's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis\_(film)" title="wikipedia.org">Metropolis</a> [wikipedia.org] got recently another 30 minutes of its missing part recovered <i>from a copy</i> located in Argentina)</p><p>After a long enough time, virtually any DRM measure end-up being broken. What only matters is time, resources and some clever tricks (to avoid waiting until universe heat-death while bruteforcing a 4096bit key).<br>So DRM has only 2 direct effects :<br>- it annoys legitimate users everywhere with no practical reason.<br>- it forces the basement-dwelling teen with too much free time on their hand to wait until 2 weeks before official launch date, instead of 3 weeks before, because it took 1 week to the pirates to find a way to break the DRM.</p><p>This implies 2 results :<br>- That the 99.99\% of pirate users, will never ever interact with the DRM nor be affected by it in any way.<br>- The important part : DRM protected piece of data will get copied, eventually and a lot. Lots of copies will exist and virtually 99.99\% of these copies will be the "pirated" copies. Be it legal backup or unlicensed copies.</p><p>So in the end, the DRM-protected data will survive, only not the DRM version itself, but the DRM-free version as found on The Pirate Bay and similar. Case in point : Classics emulation.<br>Most of the companies which produced the game we played as children are now belly. Of the few remaining, few of them have kept the assets of their old production. Few of them are interested in doing anything with these old assets. The few who do, generally do modern re-imaging and re-interpretation, rather than re-issuing the old.</p><p>So in short, if you ever wanted to pull back some of your children memories out of the grave, don't count on the original companies.<br>Some time you can find still working vintage equipment and media - but these will eventually break.<br>Today, the biggest part of these oldies are available<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... as image of pirated disks. It's practically sure that, if in 2010 you want to play the same game as in 1985, you'd probably see a cracktro in the beginning.</p><p>All your Commodore C64, Amiga, etc. favourite games are currently best sourced from download site which contain warez copies that were carried over back from that era, while at the same time the companies went belly up and/or let their assets rot.</p><p>So, in 25 years, when most of the current media companies have either disappeared, or completely forgotten about today's media, your children's best way to find a copy of them to remember fond memories, would be finding a copy which will be the digital descendant of what's today on pirate bay.<br>Yes, **AA, today's EVIL pirate, might be tomorrow's heroic archivist.</p><p>In 25 years, when the current maker of</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone copied it .
Lots of copies .
{ ... } With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today , can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again ?
( And as another example of copies being important for preserving : Fritz Lang 's Metropolis [ wikipedia.org ] got recently another 30 minutes of its missing part recovered from a copy located in Argentina ) After a long enough time , virtually any DRM measure end-up being broken .
What only matters is time , resources and some clever tricks ( to avoid waiting until universe heat-death while bruteforcing a 4096bit key ) .So DRM has only 2 direct effects : - it annoys legitimate users everywhere with no practical reason.- it forces the basement-dwelling teen with too much free time on their hand to wait until 2 weeks before official launch date , instead of 3 weeks before , because it took 1 week to the pirates to find a way to break the DRM.This implies 2 results : - That the 99.99 \ % of pirate users , will never ever interact with the DRM nor be affected by it in any way.- The important part : DRM protected piece of data will get copied , eventually and a lot .
Lots of copies will exist and virtually 99.99 \ % of these copies will be the " pirated " copies .
Be it legal backup or unlicensed copies.So in the end , the DRM-protected data will survive , only not the DRM version itself , but the DRM-free version as found on The Pirate Bay and similar .
Case in point : Classics emulation.Most of the companies which produced the game we played as children are now belly .
Of the few remaining , few of them have kept the assets of their old production .
Few of them are interested in doing anything with these old assets .
The few who do , generally do modern re-imaging and re-interpretation , rather than re-issuing the old.So in short , if you ever wanted to pull back some of your children memories out of the grave , do n't count on the original companies.Some time you can find still working vintage equipment and media - but these will eventually break.Today , the biggest part of these oldies are available ... as image of pirated disks .
It 's practically sure that , if in 2010 you want to play the same game as in 1985 , you 'd probably see a cracktro in the beginning.All your Commodore C64 , Amiga , etc .
favourite games are currently best sourced from download site which contain warez copies that were carried over back from that era , while at the same time the companies went belly up and/or let their assets rot.So , in 25 years , when most of the current media companies have either disappeared , or completely forgotten about today 's media , your children 's best way to find a copy of them to remember fond memories , would be finding a copy which will be the digital descendant of what 's today on pirate bay.Yes , * * AA , today 's EVIL pirate , might be tomorrow 's heroic archivist.In 25 years , when the current maker of</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main way ancient writing reached us is because someone copied  it.
Lots of copies.
{...} With all the copy protection and encryption on our media today, can we ever copy the data and be able to decipher it again?
(And as another example of copies being important for preserving : Fritz Lang's Metropolis [wikipedia.org] got recently another 30 minutes of its missing part recovered from a copy located in Argentina)After a long enough time, virtually any DRM measure end-up being broken.
What only matters is time, resources and some clever tricks (to avoid waiting until universe heat-death while bruteforcing a 4096bit key).So DRM has only 2 direct effects :- it annoys legitimate users everywhere with no practical reason.- it forces the basement-dwelling teen with too much free time on their hand to wait until 2 weeks before official launch date, instead of 3 weeks before, because it took 1 week to the pirates to find a way to break the DRM.This implies 2 results :- That the 99.99\% of pirate users, will never ever interact with the DRM nor be affected by it in any way.- The important part : DRM protected piece of data will get copied, eventually and a lot.
Lots of copies will exist and virtually 99.99\% of these copies will be the "pirated" copies.
Be it legal backup or unlicensed copies.So in the end, the DRM-protected data will survive, only not the DRM version itself, but the DRM-free version as found on The Pirate Bay and similar.
Case in point : Classics emulation.Most of the companies which produced the game we played as children are now belly.
Of the few remaining, few of them have kept the assets of their old production.
Few of them are interested in doing anything with these old assets.
The few who do, generally do modern re-imaging and re-interpretation, rather than re-issuing the old.So in short, if you ever wanted to pull back some of your children memories out of the grave, don't count on the original companies.Some time you can find still working vintage equipment and media - but these will eventually break.Today, the biggest part of these oldies are available ... as image of pirated disks.
It's practically sure that, if in 2010 you want to play the same game as in 1985, you'd probably see a cracktro in the beginning.All your Commodore C64, Amiga, etc.
favourite games are currently best sourced from download site which contain warez copies that were carried over back from that era, while at the same time the companies went belly up and/or let their assets rot.So, in 25 years, when most of the current media companies have either disappeared, or completely forgotten about today's media, your children's best way to find a copy of them to remember fond memories, would be finding a copy which will be the digital descendant of what's today on pirate bay.Yes, **AA, today's EVIL pirate, might be tomorrow's heroic archivist.In 25 years, when the current maker of
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253376</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266932100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That reminds me just a little bit of Wall-E.
Here's to hoping it never comes to that.

I've spent plenty of time working in archives for a museum in Chicago and this is an interesting point that I've never really thought of.

Here I am spending hours a day archiving manuscripts and scanning letters and signatures into digital to have for the future and safe-keeping but who will upkeep it in the future.

Looking into it, this doesn't seem like that big of an issue.

Digital media is so easy to transfer and copy at such high speeds... Its almost a wonder how we manage to know so much about those before us. Especially the way they used to transfer information (in candle-lit monasteries on flimsy paper). The way things are now, the future will know way more about us than we will ever know about those before us.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That reminds me just a little bit of Wall-E . Here 's to hoping it never comes to that .
I 've spent plenty of time working in archives for a museum in Chicago and this is an interesting point that I 've never really thought of .
Here I am spending hours a day archiving manuscripts and scanning letters and signatures into digital to have for the future and safe-keeping but who will upkeep it in the future .
Looking into it , this does n't seem like that big of an issue .
Digital media is so easy to transfer and copy at such high speeds... Its almost a wonder how we manage to know so much about those before us .
Especially the way they used to transfer information ( in candle-lit monasteries on flimsy paper ) .
The way things are now , the future will know way more about us than we will ever know about those before us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That reminds me just a little bit of Wall-E.
Here's to hoping it never comes to that.
I've spent plenty of time working in archives for a museum in Chicago and this is an interesting point that I've never really thought of.
Here I am spending hours a day archiving manuscripts and scanning letters and signatures into digital to have for the future and safe-keeping but who will upkeep it in the future.
Looking into it, this doesn't seem like that big of an issue.
Digital media is so easy to transfer and copy at such high speeds... Its almost a wonder how we manage to know so much about those before us.
Especially the way they used to transfer information (in candle-lit monasteries on flimsy paper).
The way things are now, the future will know way more about us than we will ever know about those before us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254310</id>
	<title>Re:Self-correcting problem</title>
	<author>guspasho</author>
	<datestamp>1266937560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What we preserve based on our present biases may not be what interest future archeologists. It may skew their perception of us as well. Imagine if all they found of us was the porn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What we preserve based on our present biases may not be what interest future archeologists .
It may skew their perception of us as well .
Imagine if all they found of us was the porn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What we preserve based on our present biases may not be what interest future archeologists.
It may skew their perception of us as well.
Imagine if all they found of us was the porn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253624</id>
	<title>Ehhh... not so much.</title>
	<author>CODiNE</author>
	<datestamp>1266933360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Virtual machines really eliminate a lot of those concerns.  But what we really have to worry about is silent bit rot.  I've found a few old files of mine that are corrupted.  Not cool.  ZFS and drobos... I don't really see a good end-user ready backup system that verifies data integrity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Virtual machines really eliminate a lot of those concerns .
But what we really have to worry about is silent bit rot .
I 've found a few old files of mine that are corrupted .
Not cool .
ZFS and drobos... I do n't really see a good end-user ready backup system that verifies data integrity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Virtual machines really eliminate a lot of those concerns.
But what we really have to worry about is silent bit rot.
I've found a few old files of mine that are corrupted.
Not cool.
ZFS and drobos... I don't really see a good end-user ready backup system that verifies data integrity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252990</id>
	<title>Uncompressed</title>
	<author>Singularity42</author>
	<datestamp>1266930300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll have to go to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.wav (not FLAC)--just straight bits.  This does away with both copy-protection and compression.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll have to go to .wav ( not FLAC ) --just straight bits .
This does away with both copy-protection and compression .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll have to go to .wav (not FLAC)--just straight bits.
This does away with both copy-protection and compression.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254548</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>peragrin</author>
	<datestamp>1266939060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>my insurance, account statements, and tax forms are all in PDF's.</p><p>I do have some paper copies as proofs, but only a handful of actual paper is needed for most of that stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>my insurance , account statements , and tax forms are all in PDF 's.I do have some paper copies as proofs , but only a handful of actual paper is needed for most of that stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my insurance, account statements, and tax forms are all in PDF's.I do have some paper copies as proofs, but only a handful of actual paper is needed for most of that stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253290</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254444</id>
	<title>Re:Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>cpghost</author>
	<datestamp>1266938580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Instead of just putting checksums in your backups, why not add (block-level) reed-solomon error correcting codes? Like in parchive for files, and dvdisaster for whole DVD-R images...?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of just putting checksums in your backups , why not add ( block-level ) reed-solomon error correcting codes ?
Like in parchive for files , and dvdisaster for whole DVD-R images... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of just putting checksums in your backups, why not add (block-level) reed-solomon error correcting codes?
Like in parchive for files, and dvdisaster for whole DVD-R images...?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254288</id>
	<title>Making a hard problem harder</title>
	<author>MpVpRb</author>
	<datestamp>1266937440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Preserving digital data is inherently hard.

</p><p>Not only do you need to preserve the bits, but you also need to preserve the knowledge about what the bits mean.

</p><p>So...instead of addressing this issue as important, the content owners have decided to add another layer...

</p><p>Now, they encrypt the data, to prevent copying.

</p><p>This makes the problem A LOT HARDER!

</p><p>The content owners are the ones to blame if we lose entire decades of art and culture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Preserving digital data is inherently hard .
Not only do you need to preserve the bits , but you also need to preserve the knowledge about what the bits mean .
So...instead of addressing this issue as important , the content owners have decided to add another layer.. . Now , they encrypt the data , to prevent copying .
This makes the problem A LOT HARDER !
The content owners are the ones to blame if we lose entire decades of art and culture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Preserving digital data is inherently hard.
Not only do you need to preserve the bits, but you also need to preserve the knowledge about what the bits mean.
So...instead of addressing this issue as important, the content owners have decided to add another layer...

Now, they encrypt the data, to prevent copying.
This makes the problem A LOT HARDER!
The content owners are the ones to blame if we lose entire decades of art and culture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256740</id>
	<title>Re:Old Sierra Games</title>
	<author>TandooriC</author>
	<datestamp>1265102400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>With the fast pcs nowadays you could only finish QFG 4 with a thief and you can't complete the initiation in QFG3 with a fighter.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With the fast pcs nowadays you could only finish QFG 4 with a thief and you ca n't complete the initiation in QFG3 with a fighter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the fast pcs nowadays you could only finish QFG 4 with a thief and you can't complete the initiation in QFG3 with a fighter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256674</id>
	<title>Re:sadly lawyers are working tirelessly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265101560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, look at the upside, at least future generations will never be subject to the punishment of listening to Britney Spears CDs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , look at the upside , at least future generations will never be subject to the punishment of listening to Britney Spears CDs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, look at the upside, at least future generations will never be subject to the punishment of listening to Britney Spears CDs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254646</id>
	<title>Re:Um?</title>
	<author>Pence128</author>
	<datestamp>1266939900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Pulse-Code Modulation</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pulse-Code Modulation [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pulse-Code Modulation [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252978</id>
	<title>ffs.. the "zomg how to preserve" story -again-!?</title>
	<author>Animaether</author>
	<datestamp>1266930240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, Slashdot.. until there's a revolutionary insight into this matter.. quick posting these stories ad nauseum.</p><p>For further commentary, see previous stories... here's one.. it's from september 2009 and -nothing has changed-.</p><p><a href="http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/1646251/Archiving-Digital-Artwork-For-Museum-Purchase" title="slashdot.org">http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/1646251/Archiving-Digital-Artwork-For-Museum-Purchase</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , Slashdot.. until there 's a revolutionary insight into this matter.. quick posting these stories ad nauseum.For further commentary , see previous stories... here 's one.. it 's from september 2009 and -nothing has changed-.http : //ask.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/1646251/Archiving-Digital-Artwork-For-Museum-Purchase [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, Slashdot.. until there's a revolutionary insight into this matter.. quick posting these stories ad nauseum.For further commentary, see previous stories... here's one.. it's from september 2009 and -nothing has changed-.http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/1646251/Archiving-Digital-Artwork-For-Museum-Purchase [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254376</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>CharlyFoxtrot</author>
	<datestamp>1266938160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not about the texts. Archaeologists <a href="http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/books/bid1369.htm" title="arizona.edu">learn</a> [arizona.edu] a lot <a href="http://www.learnnc.org/lp/pages/1003" title="learnnc.org">from trash</a> [learnnc.org] :</p><p>"The unusable or unwanted remnants of everyday life end up in the garbage. By studying what people have thrown away, archaeologists can learn a great deal about a culture. This is true not only of prehistoric peoples who left no written record about their lives, but also of people today. Archaeologist Bill Rathje studies the garbage of Americans. He has learned many things about the relationships of human behavior and trash disposal, information useful in studying people of the past and the present. Rathje has found that people will often tell an interviewer what they believe is appropriate behavior, but their garbage tells another story. For instance, people frequently say they eat lots of fruits and vegetables, yet their garbage shows they do not. Another example is that people say they recycle more than they actually do (Rathje 1984, p. 27)."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not about the texts .
Archaeologists learn [ arizona.edu ] a lot from trash [ learnnc.org ] : " The unusable or unwanted remnants of everyday life end up in the garbage .
By studying what people have thrown away , archaeologists can learn a great deal about a culture .
This is true not only of prehistoric peoples who left no written record about their lives , but also of people today .
Archaeologist Bill Rathje studies the garbage of Americans .
He has learned many things about the relationships of human behavior and trash disposal , information useful in studying people of the past and the present .
Rathje has found that people will often tell an interviewer what they believe is appropriate behavior , but their garbage tells another story .
For instance , people frequently say they eat lots of fruits and vegetables , yet their garbage shows they do not .
Another example is that people say they recycle more than they actually do ( Rathje 1984 , p .
27 ) . "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not about the texts.
Archaeologists learn [arizona.edu] a lot from trash [learnnc.org] :"The unusable or unwanted remnants of everyday life end up in the garbage.
By studying what people have thrown away, archaeologists can learn a great deal about a culture.
This is true not only of prehistoric peoples who left no written record about their lives, but also of people today.
Archaeologist Bill Rathje studies the garbage of Americans.
He has learned many things about the relationships of human behavior and trash disposal, information useful in studying people of the past and the present.
Rathje has found that people will often tell an interviewer what they believe is appropriate behavior, but their garbage tells another story.
For instance, people frequently say they eat lots of fruits and vegetables, yet their garbage shows they do not.
Another example is that people say they recycle more than they actually do (Rathje 1984, p.
27)."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254540</id>
	<title>Re:The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>agrif</author>
	<datestamp>1266939060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure where I heard this idea, but it bears repeating:</p><p>Future historians will <em>hate</em> us, with a passion, because we encrypt even the most banal things. We encrypt movies, for God's sake! Where's the justification in that? We're robbing the future of our culture, even from things like movies with talking hamsters!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure where I heard this idea , but it bears repeating : Future historians will hate us , with a passion , because we encrypt even the most banal things .
We encrypt movies , for God 's sake !
Where 's the justification in that ?
We 're robbing the future of our culture , even from things like movies with talking hamsters !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure where I heard this idea, but it bears repeating:Future historians will hate us, with a passion, because we encrypt even the most banal things.
We encrypt movies, for God's sake!
Where's the justification in that?
We're robbing the future of our culture, even from things like movies with talking hamsters!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253768</id>
	<title>VERY interesting topic</title>
	<author>adosch</author>
	<datestamp>1266934140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is something that I've seriously taken a look into on the personal side of things.  I look at all the digital data I've collected (and lost due to a drive failure, virus, corruption, disaster, ect.) over the years and it really makes your head go foggy.  I only hit this realization putting together a wedding anniversary party for my parent's together in the last few months.  My parents brought over bucket loads of photos and keepsakes that I have to rummage through for an overhead slideshow.  On top of them being (thankfully) highly organized with their personal keepsakes, it far superseeds what I have for my own family.  My wife and I went back and we literally have a 'digital divide' in the last decade for any tangible photos.  Most of our memorable moments were done with a digital camera, which is great, but we have SO many dribblets of photos here and there on this burnt CD or that external storage device, ALL of which can get lost much easier, broken or misplaced FOREVER than a big ass, heavy rubbermade toat of pictures my parents have (negative included, I might add).
</p><p>So I ask myself, what if my copy of my copy of my copy is corrupt?  I'm screwed.  What if I have something in an unsupported format that I can't find any support for?  I'm screwed.  What if I have a photo at 320x240 resolution and I want to make a 8x10 photo of it and put it on my wall?  I'm screwed.  We've successfully stove-piped ourselves for a high rate of non-reproduction of our valued items along with a staggering rate for failure on the mediums we've chosen for them.</p><p>I've come to the conclusion that tangible is becoming an obsolete word when it comes to <i>anything</i> I like anymore:  music, movies, photography, books, news, conversations, ect.  I don't think there is a way getting around it that I can see.  </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is something that I 've seriously taken a look into on the personal side of things .
I look at all the digital data I 've collected ( and lost due to a drive failure , virus , corruption , disaster , ect .
) over the years and it really makes your head go foggy .
I only hit this realization putting together a wedding anniversary party for my parent 's together in the last few months .
My parents brought over bucket loads of photos and keepsakes that I have to rummage through for an overhead slideshow .
On top of them being ( thankfully ) highly organized with their personal keepsakes , it far superseeds what I have for my own family .
My wife and I went back and we literally have a 'digital divide ' in the last decade for any tangible photos .
Most of our memorable moments were done with a digital camera , which is great , but we have SO many dribblets of photos here and there on this burnt CD or that external storage device , ALL of which can get lost much easier , broken or misplaced FOREVER than a big ass , heavy rubbermade toat of pictures my parents have ( negative included , I might add ) .
So I ask myself , what if my copy of my copy of my copy is corrupt ?
I 'm screwed .
What if I have something in an unsupported format that I ca n't find any support for ?
I 'm screwed .
What if I have a photo at 320x240 resolution and I want to make a 8x10 photo of it and put it on my wall ?
I 'm screwed .
We 've successfully stove-piped ourselves for a high rate of non-reproduction of our valued items along with a staggering rate for failure on the mediums we 've chosen for them.I 've come to the conclusion that tangible is becoming an obsolete word when it comes to anything I like anymore : music , movies , photography , books , news , conversations , ect .
I do n't think there is a way getting around it that I can see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is something that I've seriously taken a look into on the personal side of things.
I look at all the digital data I've collected (and lost due to a drive failure, virus, corruption, disaster, ect.
) over the years and it really makes your head go foggy.
I only hit this realization putting together a wedding anniversary party for my parent's together in the last few months.
My parents brought over bucket loads of photos and keepsakes that I have to rummage through for an overhead slideshow.
On top of them being (thankfully) highly organized with their personal keepsakes, it far superseeds what I have for my own family.
My wife and I went back and we literally have a 'digital divide' in the last decade for any tangible photos.
Most of our memorable moments were done with a digital camera, which is great, but we have SO many dribblets of photos here and there on this burnt CD or that external storage device, ALL of which can get lost much easier, broken or misplaced FOREVER than a big ass, heavy rubbermade toat of pictures my parents have (negative included, I might add).
So I ask myself, what if my copy of my copy of my copy is corrupt?
I'm screwed.
What if I have something in an unsupported format that I can't find any support for?
I'm screwed.
What if I have a photo at 320x240 resolution and I want to make a 8x10 photo of it and put it on my wall?
I'm screwed.
We've successfully stove-piped ourselves for a high rate of non-reproduction of our valued items along with a staggering rate for failure on the mediums we've chosen for them.I've come to the conclusion that tangible is becoming an obsolete word when it comes to anything I like anymore:  music, movies, photography, books, news, conversations, ect.
I don't think there is a way getting around it that I can see.  </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31261400</id>
	<title>It's not just a technical problem</title>
	<author>CoffeePlease</author>
	<datestamp>1265135160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's a legal and social issue as well.  Unlike something written on paper, works on the web are prone to disappear when payments to the service involved stop.

<a href="http://thedesignspace.net/MT2archives/000743.html" title="thedesignspace.net" rel="nofollow">Proposal: Advance Directives for our digital legacies</a> [thedesignspace.net]</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a legal and social issue as well .
Unlike something written on paper , works on the web are prone to disappear when payments to the service involved stop .
Proposal : Advance Directives for our digital legacies [ thedesignspace.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a legal and social issue as well.
Unlike something written on paper, works on the web are prone to disappear when payments to the service involved stop.
Proposal: Advance Directives for our digital legacies [thedesignspace.net]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253448</id>
	<title>Best way to avoid a dark age...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266932460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Best way to avoid a dark age: prevent a fundamentalist cult from exercising its fantasies of domination / cultural supression.</p><p>Includes: Christianity, Islam, Scientific Materialism, among others (these happen to be the most successful to date).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Best way to avoid a dark age : prevent a fundamentalist cult from exercising its fantasies of domination / cultural supression.Includes : Christianity , Islam , Scientific Materialism , among others ( these happen to be the most successful to date ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Best way to avoid a dark age: prevent a fundamentalist cult from exercising its fantasies of domination / cultural supression.Includes: Christianity, Islam, Scientific Materialism, among others (these happen to be the most successful to date).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255214</id>
	<title>Re:Self-correcting problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266944040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep.  People used to lose all of their information instantly.  Now we save it for a while before we lose it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
People used to lose all of their information instantly .
Now we save it for a while before we lose it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
People used to lose all of their information instantly.
Now we save it for a while before we lose it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255814</id>
	<title>It's called a backup.</title>
	<author>he-sk</author>
	<datestamp>1266949500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That, and wide-spread usage of open standards and free software, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That , and wide-spread usage of open standards and free software , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That, and wide-spread usage of open standards and free software, of course.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253194</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266931260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I still have my programs from the C64 era and I can still run them, thanks to emulation. Most games from that time still exist only due to crackers who removed the copy protection which would otherwise be a challenge for emulators.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I still have my programs from the C64 era and I can still run them , thanks to emulation .
Most games from that time still exist only due to crackers who removed the copy protection which would otherwise be a challenge for emulators .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still have my programs from the C64 era and I can still run them, thanks to emulation.
Most games from that time still exist only due to crackers who removed the copy protection which would otherwise be a challenge for emulators.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252996</id>
	<title>Re:Does anyone learn from history anymore?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266930300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>History is like software, it needs maintainers or it's doomed to disappear in the next version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>History is like software , it needs maintainers or it 's doomed to disappear in the next version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>History is like software, it needs maintainers or it's doomed to disappear in the next version.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255238</id>
	<title>This is a real problem</title>
	<author>ParanoiaBOTS</author>
	<datestamp>1266944160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As someone who has done quite a bit of work in the genealogy line of software development I know what a problem this can be.  The best alternatives we have currently for storing digital media last 
<br>
There is however a company out there that is working on a project they call the "Millenium disc" apparently it can hold roughly as much data as a CD but it has an expected life of ~1000 years.  It works by meshing the ideas of hieroglyphics and a traditional CD. This was an idea that was presented at the Family History Technology conference at BYU a few years back. I am not sure where the project is now, or even if it is still alive.  But either way, we need a way to come up with a long term storage solution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has done quite a bit of work in the genealogy line of software development I know what a problem this can be .
The best alternatives we have currently for storing digital media last There is however a company out there that is working on a project they call the " Millenium disc " apparently it can hold roughly as much data as a CD but it has an expected life of ~ 1000 years .
It works by meshing the ideas of hieroglyphics and a traditional CD .
This was an idea that was presented at the Family History Technology conference at BYU a few years back .
I am not sure where the project is now , or even if it is still alive .
But either way , we need a way to come up with a long term storage solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has done quite a bit of work in the genealogy line of software development I know what a problem this can be.
The best alternatives we have currently for storing digital media last 

There is however a company out there that is working on a project they call the "Millenium disc" apparently it can hold roughly as much data as a CD but it has an expected life of ~1000 years.
It works by meshing the ideas of hieroglyphics and a traditional CD.
This was an idea that was presented at the Family History Technology conference at BYU a few years back.
I am not sure where the project is now, or even if it is still alive.
But either way, we need a way to come up with a long term storage solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254248</id>
	<title>there's not enough stone...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266937080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...to chisel all my ascii porn</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...to chisel all my ascii porn</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...to chisel all my ascii porn</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252902</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266929880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But what my digital pictures of my family? It's kinda cool to dust off the old photo albums and check out my family history. Plus I can't imagine how P.Oed my Mom would be if I lost all the family pics (digitized from slides before the slides fade away to nothing).</p><p>Every time I upgrade hw or sw, no matter how careful I am, I seem to lose a file or two. I've taken to planting a couple of cheap NAS at my friends place and we all share the cost and benefits of off-site storage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But what my digital pictures of my family ?
It 's kinda cool to dust off the old photo albums and check out my family history .
Plus I ca n't imagine how P.Oed my Mom would be if I lost all the family pics ( digitized from slides before the slides fade away to nothing ) .Every time I upgrade hw or sw , no matter how careful I am , I seem to lose a file or two .
I 've taken to planting a couple of cheap NAS at my friends place and we all share the cost and benefits of off-site storage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But what my digital pictures of my family?
It's kinda cool to dust off the old photo albums and check out my family history.
Plus I can't imagine how P.Oed my Mom would be if I lost all the family pics (digitized from slides before the slides fade away to nothing).Every time I upgrade hw or sw, no matter how careful I am, I seem to lose a file or two.
I've taken to planting a couple of cheap NAS at my friends place and we all share the cost and benefits of off-site storage.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257830</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>Going\_Digital</author>
	<datestamp>1265115420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh please you haven't a clue have you.

In 1984 when the Domesday project was conceived there were no standards for mass storage devices, CD-ROM was nothing more than an idea without any standards. But here is the point that you are missing at the core of the BBC Domesday project were thousands of photographs showing life in Britain in the '80s. There was no system that could handle the data required to hold thousands of digital pictures, not to mention the fact that no computers had the graphics capability to display digital pictures.

It is all well and good for you to criticise what was done then now that you have the benefit of hindsight and can see how technology has progressed now but here are some of the problems. If the project were to be re-run today with the benefit of technologies such as JPEG picture compression and storage technology like DVD-ROM it would still be a struggle to fit all the video, pictures and data on to a single DVD. Back in 1984 a 400k floppy disk was state of the art as was 16 colour graphics.

LV-ROM was a new technology developed by Philips that offered a viable solution by offering a hybrid system that was able to overlay video frames and computer data and it was a technology that philips expected to be a successful standard. However philips not having the luxury of time travel could not see that people would prefer the CD-ROM format due to it's small size and that computers were now able to store images digitally making CD-ROM the format of choice.

The BBC did the best they could with the technology they had at the time, sadly the technology moved in a different direction and left them behind. If the BBC deserve any criticism it would be that they made some mistakes along the way that have prevented this resource from being converted. The main mistake is that they were liberal with their legal approach and did not get every contributor to sign away entitlement to everything including their brain cells so now it is a legal problem that the BBC can not fix with todays modern copyright laws. The second is they lost the film slides of the photos so the only source for the pictures is now a second or third generation video frame.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh please you have n't a clue have you .
In 1984 when the Domesday project was conceived there were no standards for mass storage devices , CD-ROM was nothing more than an idea without any standards .
But here is the point that you are missing at the core of the BBC Domesday project were thousands of photographs showing life in Britain in the '80s .
There was no system that could handle the data required to hold thousands of digital pictures , not to mention the fact that no computers had the graphics capability to display digital pictures .
It is all well and good for you to criticise what was done then now that you have the benefit of hindsight and can see how technology has progressed now but here are some of the problems .
If the project were to be re-run today with the benefit of technologies such as JPEG picture compression and storage technology like DVD-ROM it would still be a struggle to fit all the video , pictures and data on to a single DVD .
Back in 1984 a 400k floppy disk was state of the art as was 16 colour graphics .
LV-ROM was a new technology developed by Philips that offered a viable solution by offering a hybrid system that was able to overlay video frames and computer data and it was a technology that philips expected to be a successful standard .
However philips not having the luxury of time travel could not see that people would prefer the CD-ROM format due to it 's small size and that computers were now able to store images digitally making CD-ROM the format of choice .
The BBC did the best they could with the technology they had at the time , sadly the technology moved in a different direction and left them behind .
If the BBC deserve any criticism it would be that they made some mistakes along the way that have prevented this resource from being converted .
The main mistake is that they were liberal with their legal approach and did not get every contributor to sign away entitlement to everything including their brain cells so now it is a legal problem that the BBC can not fix with todays modern copyright laws .
The second is they lost the film slides of the photos so the only source for the pictures is now a second or third generation video frame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh please you haven't a clue have you.
In 1984 when the Domesday project was conceived there were no standards for mass storage devices, CD-ROM was nothing more than an idea without any standards.
But here is the point that you are missing at the core of the BBC Domesday project were thousands of photographs showing life in Britain in the '80s.
There was no system that could handle the data required to hold thousands of digital pictures, not to mention the fact that no computers had the graphics capability to display digital pictures.
It is all well and good for you to criticise what was done then now that you have the benefit of hindsight and can see how technology has progressed now but here are some of the problems.
If the project were to be re-run today with the benefit of technologies such as JPEG picture compression and storage technology like DVD-ROM it would still be a struggle to fit all the video, pictures and data on to a single DVD.
Back in 1984 a 400k floppy disk was state of the art as was 16 colour graphics.
LV-ROM was a new technology developed by Philips that offered a viable solution by offering a hybrid system that was able to overlay video frames and computer data and it was a technology that philips expected to be a successful standard.
However philips not having the luxury of time travel could not see that people would prefer the CD-ROM format due to it's small size and that computers were now able to store images digitally making CD-ROM the format of choice.
The BBC did the best they could with the technology they had at the time, sadly the technology moved in a different direction and left them behind.
If the BBC deserve any criticism it would be that they made some mistakes along the way that have prevented this resource from being converted.
The main mistake is that they were liberal with their legal approach and did not get every contributor to sign away entitlement to everything including their brain cells so now it is a legal problem that the BBC can not fix with todays modern copyright laws.
The second is they lost the film slides of the photos so the only source for the pictures is now a second or third generation video frame.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253032</id>
	<title>Open software, open standards</title>
	<author>gwern</author>
	<datestamp>1266930600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Movable Type is a dead end. In the long run, the utility of all non-Free software approaches zero. All non-Free software is a dead end."</p><p><a href="http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0" title="diveintomark.org" rel="nofollow">http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0</a> [diveintomark.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Movable Type is a dead end .
In the long run , the utility of all non-Free software approaches zero .
All non-Free software is a dead end .
" http : //diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0 [ diveintomark.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Movable Type is a dead end.
In the long run, the utility of all non-Free software approaches zero.
All non-Free software is a dead end.
"http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0 [diveintomark.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258302</id>
	<title>Re:The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>quanticle</author>
	<datestamp>1265120400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that no form of copy protection in use today has lasted more than a couple of years before being broken, I'd say that copy protection won't be much of an obstacle to future generations.  Remember, they'll have hardware that's beyond our current capabilities by a few orders of magnitude.  Cracking copy protection should not be a technical problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that no form of copy protection in use today has lasted more than a couple of years before being broken , I 'd say that copy protection wo n't be much of an obstacle to future generations .
Remember , they 'll have hardware that 's beyond our current capabilities by a few orders of magnitude .
Cracking copy protection should not be a technical problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that no form of copy protection in use today has lasted more than a couple of years before being broken, I'd say that copy protection won't be much of an obstacle to future generations.
Remember, they'll have hardware that's beyond our current capabilities by a few orders of magnitude.
Cracking copy protection should not be a technical problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258048</id>
	<title>Re:ffs.. the "zomg how to preserve" story -again-!</title>
	<author>xded</author>
	<datestamp>1265117820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Still, in previous stories I didn't find any reference to <a href="http://www.ollydbg.de/Paperbak/index.html" title="ollydbg.de" rel="nofollow">PaperBack</a> [ollydbg.de].</p><p>It just lacks a textual description of the matrix format to attach at your centuries-lasting data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Still , in previous stories I did n't find any reference to PaperBack [ ollydbg.de ] .It just lacks a textual description of the matrix format to attach at your centuries-lasting data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Still, in previous stories I didn't find any reference to PaperBack [ollydbg.de].It just lacks a textual description of the matrix format to attach at your centuries-lasting data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254334</id>
	<title>Microfilm lasts 500 years...</title>
	<author>BlueScreenOfTOM</author>
	<datestamp>1266937800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last I checked, Microfilm (and Microfiche) was guaranteed to last 500 years by Kodak.  Unlike JPEGs, you can read Microfilm with a magnifying glass, and speaking from experience both writing and reading, the quality isn't bad.  It's also not horrendously expensive once you have the writer (I believe a Kodak i9600 Series Archive Writer sells for somewhere around 35-40k, depending on the model you get).
<br>
<br>
I wouldn't fool myself into thinking Microfilm is some magic solution to our digital storage problems, but it does go to show that there are ways we can save really important data.  Given current technology, we could make something similar to Microfilm that didn't require professional development...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last I checked , Microfilm ( and Microfiche ) was guaranteed to last 500 years by Kodak .
Unlike JPEGs , you can read Microfilm with a magnifying glass , and speaking from experience both writing and reading , the quality is n't bad .
It 's also not horrendously expensive once you have the writer ( I believe a Kodak i9600 Series Archive Writer sells for somewhere around 35-40k , depending on the model you get ) .
I would n't fool myself into thinking Microfilm is some magic solution to our digital storage problems , but it does go to show that there are ways we can save really important data .
Given current technology , we could make something similar to Microfilm that did n't require professional development.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last I checked, Microfilm (and Microfiche) was guaranteed to last 500 years by Kodak.
Unlike JPEGs, you can read Microfilm with a magnifying glass, and speaking from experience both writing and reading, the quality isn't bad.
It's also not horrendously expensive once you have the writer (I believe a Kodak i9600 Series Archive Writer sells for somewhere around 35-40k, depending on the model you get).
I wouldn't fool myself into thinking Microfilm is some magic solution to our digital storage problems, but it does go to show that there are ways we can save really important data.
Given current technology, we could make something similar to Microfilm that didn't require professional development...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31262176</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>carvalhao</author>
	<datestamp>1265138100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually most of it was backed up <a href="http://www.geocities.ws/" title="geocities.ws">http://www.geocities.ws/</a> [geocities.ws]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually most of it was backed up http : //www.geocities.ws/ [ geocities.ws ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually most of it was backed up http://www.geocities.ws/ [geocities.ws]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255152</id>
	<title>I know, I know!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266943560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know the answer to this one!  Put librarians in charge of IT!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know the answer to this one !
Put librarians in charge of IT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know the answer to this one!
Put librarians in charge of IT!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253382</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Kenshin</author>
	<datestamp>1266932100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not much of note. A few old websites I made, a few 3D renders (can't find the models, though.) I didn't produce much worth holding onto back then.</p><p>But pretty much all my stuff from 10~12 years back until now stays on my hard disk, and moves from new disk to new disk as I upgrade. All of my music and photos are managed by library apps, and I have automatic backups at least weekly. (Backing up is more convenient now, since I recently moved to a Mac and have Time Machine set to do it when I plug in my external drive.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not much of note .
A few old websites I made , a few 3D renders ( ca n't find the models , though .
) I did n't produce much worth holding onto back then.But pretty much all my stuff from 10 ~ 12 years back until now stays on my hard disk , and moves from new disk to new disk as I upgrade .
All of my music and photos are managed by library apps , and I have automatic backups at least weekly .
( Backing up is more convenient now , since I recently moved to a Mac and have Time Machine set to do it when I plug in my external drive .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not much of note.
A few old websites I made, a few 3D renders (can't find the models, though.
) I didn't produce much worth holding onto back then.But pretty much all my stuff from 10~12 years back until now stays on my hard disk, and moves from new disk to new disk as I upgrade.
All of my music and photos are managed by library apps, and I have automatic backups at least weekly.
(Backing up is more convenient now, since I recently moved to a Mac and have Time Machine set to do it when I plug in my external drive.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31258898</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>sgage</author>
	<datestamp>1265124120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today? 20 years? There was no DMCA back then, now just imagine the future...."</p><p>I do. In fact, I have some files going back to my CP/M days - very early 80's. They got transferred along the way to every computer I have owned, and are now sitting on my 250 G drive in my current computer, and also backed up on an external HD. (I finally had a scare that convinced me to have a more or less formal backup regimen.)</p><p>I can read the old WordStar and WordPerfect files, no problem. Even some old SuperCalc spreadsheets.</p><p>In all that time, the files were never really "backed up", they were just live on my current system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today ?
20 years ?
There was no DMCA back then , now just imagine the future.... " I do .
In fact , I have some files going back to my CP/M days - very early 80 's .
They got transferred along the way to every computer I have owned , and are now sitting on my 250 G drive in my current computer , and also backed up on an external HD .
( I finally had a scare that convinced me to have a more or less formal backup regimen .
) I can read the old WordStar and WordPerfect files , no problem .
Even some old SuperCalc spreadsheets.In all that time , the files were never really " backed up " , they were just live on my current system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How many of you have digital files from 15 years ago that you can read today?
20 years?
There was no DMCA back then, now just imagine the future...."I do.
In fact, I have some files going back to my CP/M days - very early 80's.
They got transferred along the way to every computer I have owned, and are now sitting on my 250 G drive in my current computer, and also backed up on an external HD.
(I finally had a scare that convinced me to have a more or less formal backup regimen.
)I can read the old WordStar and WordPerfect files, no problem.
Even some old SuperCalc spreadsheets.In all that time, the files were never really "backed up", they were just live on my current system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254358</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>JoeMerchant</author>
	<datestamp>1266938040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, what could go wrong...<br> <br>

Cloud is nice, and I have been very appreciative of Yahoo and Google archiving my e-mail for the last 10+ years without losing any (as opposed to my local copies), but a massive redundant system is no guarantee of future service in the face of bankruptcy, war, etc.<br> <br>

The post Roman era dark age was brought about by the collapse of society - the next time we manage to do that (and, in geologic time, it's coming soon), it's going to be quite the mess.  At least there wasn't much difference between the Romans and the Barbarians, just picture today's world with no organized energy (electricity, oil, etc) distribution systems...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , what could go wrong.. . Cloud is nice , and I have been very appreciative of Yahoo and Google archiving my e-mail for the last 10 + years without losing any ( as opposed to my local copies ) , but a massive redundant system is no guarantee of future service in the face of bankruptcy , war , etc .
The post Roman era dark age was brought about by the collapse of society - the next time we manage to do that ( and , in geologic time , it 's coming soon ) , it 's going to be quite the mess .
At least there was n't much difference between the Romans and the Barbarians , just picture today 's world with no organized energy ( electricity , oil , etc ) distribution systems.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, what could go wrong... 

Cloud is nice, and I have been very appreciative of Yahoo and Google archiving my e-mail for the last 10+ years without losing any (as opposed to my local copies), but a massive redundant system is no guarantee of future service in the face of bankruptcy, war, etc.
The post Roman era dark age was brought about by the collapse of society - the next time we manage to do that (and, in geologic time, it's coming soon), it's going to be quite the mess.
At least there wasn't much difference between the Romans and the Barbarians, just picture today's world with no organized energy (electricity, oil, etc) distribution systems...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255922</id>
	<title>Online Gaming History</title>
	<author>Tickenest</author>
	<datestamp>1266950520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's by no means the most important topic out there (and there's a personal plug here, of course), but online gaming communities have thrived for well over a decade (even longer for some forms) but most of that information has been lost and forgotten.  I decided about a year and a half ago to post my old demos of my days playing QuakeWorld Team Fortress (QWTF) on YouTube, a little out of vanity, a little out of preservation, and also because there just wasn't any real footage of QWTF on YouTube.

After I got done with my old demos, I decided to start posting other demos that were publicly available on the internet.  Some old players found my site and made their own contributions, but I was saddened that a lot of guys would say that they lost their old demos on a hard drive crash or something.

Again, not the most important stuff ever, but I think QWTF was a pretty significant part of gaming history because it pretty much defined class-based multiplayer FPS (or at least popularized it), and, as far as I know, there isn't any sort of archive like mine anywhere else.

If you're interested, <a href="http://qwtf.digitaljedi.com/" title="digitaljedi.com">http://qwtf.digitaljedi.com/</a> [digitaljedi.com] or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/Tickenest" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/user/Tickenest</a> [youtube.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's by no means the most important topic out there ( and there 's a personal plug here , of course ) , but online gaming communities have thrived for well over a decade ( even longer for some forms ) but most of that information has been lost and forgotten .
I decided about a year and a half ago to post my old demos of my days playing QuakeWorld Team Fortress ( QWTF ) on YouTube , a little out of vanity , a little out of preservation , and also because there just was n't any real footage of QWTF on YouTube .
After I got done with my old demos , I decided to start posting other demos that were publicly available on the internet .
Some old players found my site and made their own contributions , but I was saddened that a lot of guys would say that they lost their old demos on a hard drive crash or something .
Again , not the most important stuff ever , but I think QWTF was a pretty significant part of gaming history because it pretty much defined class-based multiplayer FPS ( or at least popularized it ) , and , as far as I know , there is n't any sort of archive like mine anywhere else .
If you 're interested , http : //qwtf.digitaljedi.com/ [ digitaljedi.com ] or http : //www.youtube.com/user/Tickenest [ youtube.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's by no means the most important topic out there (and there's a personal plug here, of course), but online gaming communities have thrived for well over a decade (even longer for some forms) but most of that information has been lost and forgotten.
I decided about a year and a half ago to post my old demos of my days playing QuakeWorld Team Fortress (QWTF) on YouTube, a little out of vanity, a little out of preservation, and also because there just wasn't any real footage of QWTF on YouTube.
After I got done with my old demos, I decided to start posting other demos that were publicly available on the internet.
Some old players found my site and made their own contributions, but I was saddened that a lot of guys would say that they lost their old demos on a hard drive crash or something.
Again, not the most important stuff ever, but I think QWTF was a pretty significant part of gaming history because it pretty much defined class-based multiplayer FPS (or at least popularized it), and, as far as I know, there isn't any sort of archive like mine anywhere else.
If you're interested, http://qwtf.digitaljedi.com/ [digitaljedi.com] or http://www.youtube.com/user/Tickenest [youtube.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31265862</id>
	<title>You need a paper briquette maker</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1265110560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And a fireplace or wood burning stove.</p><p>Junk mail is great. Free heating.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And a fireplace or wood burning stove.Junk mail is great .
Free heating .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>And a fireplace or wood burning stove.Junk mail is great.
Free heating.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253290</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>iggymanz</author>
	<datestamp>1266931740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And what parts of those digital records would be *important* information?    c'mon, you are talking about personal crap.  Important records (birth certificate, medical records, academic records, insurance, account statements) will be on paper</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And what parts of those digital records would be * important * information ?
c'mon , you are talking about personal crap .
Important records ( birth certificate , medical records , academic records , insurance , account statements ) will be on paper</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what parts of those digital records would be *important* information?
c'mon, you are talking about personal crap.
Important records (birth certificate, medical records, academic records, insurance, account statements) will be on paper</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254694</id>
	<title>This is a longstanding problem</title>
	<author>mikein08</author>
	<datestamp>1266940200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And it's a big one.  I've spent the better part
of 30 years working administrative applications in
IT.  Every time you change from, say, one
accounting system to another, the problem of how
to preserve and be able to look at meaningfully
old data become significant.  Yes, you can have
backup takes and disks running out your ears:
but you also have to have the formats for this
data, you have to have all the progrmas which
accessed and massaged this data, you probably
have to have the OS these programs ran on, and
you have to have the compiler(s) used in the
old system.  Sounds pretty daunting, doesn't it.
Or you can convert all the old data from old
system(s) to new one.  Do you know how much
resources management will allot to that?

But all of a sudden, someone has written an
article about it, so it's a hot topic again.
Sigh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... there's nothing new<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

MK</htmltext>
<tokenext>And it 's a big one .
I 've spent the better part of 30 years working administrative applications in IT .
Every time you change from , say , one accounting system to another , the problem of how to preserve and be able to look at meaningfully old data become significant .
Yes , you can have backup takes and disks running out your ears : but you also have to have the formats for this data , you have to have all the progrmas which accessed and massaged this data , you probably have to have the OS these programs ran on , and you have to have the compiler ( s ) used in the old system .
Sounds pretty daunting , does n't it .
Or you can convert all the old data from old system ( s ) to new one .
Do you know how much resources management will allot to that ?
But all of a sudden , someone has written an article about it , so it 's a hot topic again .
Sigh ... there 's nothing new .. . MK</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it's a big one.
I've spent the better part
of 30 years working administrative applications in
IT.
Every time you change from, say, one
accounting system to another, the problem of how
to preserve and be able to look at meaningfully
old data become significant.
Yes, you can have
backup takes and disks running out your ears:
but you also have to have the formats for this
data, you have to have all the progrmas which
accessed and massaged this data, you probably
have to have the OS these programs ran on, and
you have to have the compiler(s) used in the
old system.
Sounds pretty daunting, doesn't it.
Or you can convert all the old data from old
system(s) to new one.
Do you know how much
resources management will allot to that?
But all of a sudden, someone has written an
article about it, so it's a hot topic again.
Sigh ... there's nothing new ...

MK</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254036</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Redlazer</author>
	<datestamp>1266935640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I agree to some extent, an advanced culture is advanced not just with it's technology, but also in the way it thinks.
<p>
I would suspect that, in the future, our ability to understand and figure things out will be far higher than it is today. Especially since the question of what a DVD is for is clear - not just to us now, but I would imagine even to someone who had no preconceived notion would be able to piece together the clues into what it might have been used for.
</p><p>
A reflective on one side, perfectly round disc? Looking at it under a microscope would no doubt show the presence of the "peaks and valleys" of digital data, and I think it would shortly fall into place.
</p><p>
Of course, a thought experiment such as this is nearly impossible to do, as I don't know anyone intelligent enough that also has never experience optical storage.
</p><p>
It's just that, as time passes, and our perspective of the world zooms out (coinciding with our understanding of the world), it becomes much easier to see how things are connected together. In the above example, part of the trouble with the Mayan civ is that we know so little about them and their world. It is not that they were complicated, or smarter than us, or were able to figure out things better than us (Yes, I'll see you all in 2013); the real issue is that we do not know enough about their fundamental culture in order to deduce what they were using things for. Certainly, using rope as a form of writing is an incredibly unusual way to write.
</p><p>
However, time marches on, and someone figured it out. Just like they will in the future.
</p><p>
In a way, it would be interesting if, in the future, someone did confusingly stumble across a shattered DVD, and, having analysed the data, finds a young man's porn collection, relentlessly locked down with encryption, it takes an unusually long 15 seconds to decrypt, and his reward is just the disclaimer:
</p><p>
"If you're reading this, I'm probably dead."
</p><p>
The researcher can't help but be gripped by the strange coincidences that must have lined up to bring this to him here.
</p><p>
Sorry, sometimes I like to write fiction.
</p><p>
-Red
</p><p>
PS. Certainly, the obvious counter to my thoughts is the human ability to look at ONLY either the forest or the trees - certainly, I've missed the "Tree" part of the "forest" when learning and figuring things out in the past, and will continue to in the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I agree to some extent , an advanced culture is advanced not just with it 's technology , but also in the way it thinks .
I would suspect that , in the future , our ability to understand and figure things out will be far higher than it is today .
Especially since the question of what a DVD is for is clear - not just to us now , but I would imagine even to someone who had no preconceived notion would be able to piece together the clues into what it might have been used for .
A reflective on one side , perfectly round disc ?
Looking at it under a microscope would no doubt show the presence of the " peaks and valleys " of digital data , and I think it would shortly fall into place .
Of course , a thought experiment such as this is nearly impossible to do , as I do n't know anyone intelligent enough that also has never experience optical storage .
It 's just that , as time passes , and our perspective of the world zooms out ( coinciding with our understanding of the world ) , it becomes much easier to see how things are connected together .
In the above example , part of the trouble with the Mayan civ is that we know so little about them and their world .
It is not that they were complicated , or smarter than us , or were able to figure out things better than us ( Yes , I 'll see you all in 2013 ) ; the real issue is that we do not know enough about their fundamental culture in order to deduce what they were using things for .
Certainly , using rope as a form of writing is an incredibly unusual way to write .
However , time marches on , and someone figured it out .
Just like they will in the future .
In a way , it would be interesting if , in the future , someone did confusingly stumble across a shattered DVD , and , having analysed the data , finds a young man 's porn collection , relentlessly locked down with encryption , it takes an unusually long 15 seconds to decrypt , and his reward is just the disclaimer : " If you 're reading this , I 'm probably dead .
" The researcher ca n't help but be gripped by the strange coincidences that must have lined up to bring this to him here .
Sorry , sometimes I like to write fiction .
-Red PS .
Certainly , the obvious counter to my thoughts is the human ability to look at ONLY either the forest or the trees - certainly , I 've missed the " Tree " part of the " forest " when learning and figuring things out in the past , and will continue to in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I agree to some extent, an advanced culture is advanced not just with it's technology, but also in the way it thinks.
I would suspect that, in the future, our ability to understand and figure things out will be far higher than it is today.
Especially since the question of what a DVD is for is clear - not just to us now, but I would imagine even to someone who had no preconceived notion would be able to piece together the clues into what it might have been used for.
A reflective on one side, perfectly round disc?
Looking at it under a microscope would no doubt show the presence of the "peaks and valleys" of digital data, and I think it would shortly fall into place.
Of course, a thought experiment such as this is nearly impossible to do, as I don't know anyone intelligent enough that also has never experience optical storage.
It's just that, as time passes, and our perspective of the world zooms out (coinciding with our understanding of the world), it becomes much easier to see how things are connected together.
In the above example, part of the trouble with the Mayan civ is that we know so little about them and their world.
It is not that they were complicated, or smarter than us, or were able to figure out things better than us (Yes, I'll see you all in 2013); the real issue is that we do not know enough about their fundamental culture in order to deduce what they were using things for.
Certainly, using rope as a form of writing is an incredibly unusual way to write.
However, time marches on, and someone figured it out.
Just like they will in the future.
In a way, it would be interesting if, in the future, someone did confusingly stumble across a shattered DVD, and, having analysed the data, finds a young man's porn collection, relentlessly locked down with encryption, it takes an unusually long 15 seconds to decrypt, and his reward is just the disclaimer:

"If you're reading this, I'm probably dead.
"

The researcher can't help but be gripped by the strange coincidences that must have lined up to bring this to him here.
Sorry, sometimes I like to write fiction.
-Red

PS.
Certainly, the obvious counter to my thoughts is the human ability to look at ONLY either the forest or the trees - certainly, I've missed the "Tree" part of the "forest" when learning and figuring things out in the past, and will continue to in the future.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31266050</id>
	<title>Digital encoding onto the longest lasting medium</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1265111640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paper.</p><p><a href="http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/" title="twibright.com">http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/</a> [twibright.com]</p><p>Stone ain't a medium, it's a hard.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paper.http : //ronja.twibright.com/optar/ [ twibright.com ] Stone ai n't a medium , it 's a hard .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paper.http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/ [twibright.com]Stone ain't a medium, it's a hard.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254440</id>
	<title>Re:Self-correcting problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266938520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've said it correctly.  Important stuff will get copied and transfered, of course we'll loose some things but the argument of a dark age in knowledge is plain idiotic.</p><p>Hell they print more books now than the entire history of man kind, we're talking about data on a level that would be impractical to save in any other manner so lets get over the fear of it and embrace the future already.</p><p>Besides, I'm sure in a million years they will find all they need to know about human anatomy and mating habits from thrown away hard drives alone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've said it correctly .
Important stuff will get copied and transfered , of course we 'll loose some things but the argument of a dark age in knowledge is plain idiotic.Hell they print more books now than the entire history of man kind , we 're talking about data on a level that would be impractical to save in any other manner so lets get over the fear of it and embrace the future already.Besides , I 'm sure in a million years they will find all they need to know about human anatomy and mating habits from thrown away hard drives alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've said it correctly.
Important stuff will get copied and transfered, of course we'll loose some things but the argument of a dark age in knowledge is plain idiotic.Hell they print more books now than the entire history of man kind, we're talking about data on a level that would be impractical to save in any other manner so lets get over the fear of it and embrace the future already.Besides, I'm sure in a million years they will find all they need to know about human anatomy and mating habits from thrown away hard drives alone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253244</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266931500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do.  while only 12 years I have tax forms from 1998 in PDF format that open just fine.  I efiled those taxes too.</p><p>Of course I worried about that 8 years ago, and switched all my files out of excel wnd word formats to text, rtf, and at the time OpenOffice.  Now they are in ODF.  Since ODF and PDF formats are easy to ready by many programmers, and thus open.  Emails are stored in mbox.  All of it is stored in multiple locations, with encryption(and decryption software) used as needed.</p><p>I moved all my data because i was tired of being tied to any one platform.  I can access everything i have electronically on all three platforms now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do .
while only 12 years I have tax forms from 1998 in PDF format that open just fine .
I efiled those taxes too.Of course I worried about that 8 years ago , and switched all my files out of excel wnd word formats to text , rtf , and at the time OpenOffice .
Now they are in ODF .
Since ODF and PDF formats are easy to ready by many programmers , and thus open .
Emails are stored in mbox .
All of it is stored in multiple locations , with encryption ( and decryption software ) used as needed.I moved all my data because i was tired of being tied to any one platform .
I can access everything i have electronically on all three platforms now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do.
while only 12 years I have tax forms from 1998 in PDF format that open just fine.
I efiled those taxes too.Of course I worried about that 8 years ago, and switched all my files out of excel wnd word formats to text, rtf, and at the time OpenOffice.
Now they are in ODF.
Since ODF and PDF formats are easy to ready by many programmers, and thus open.
Emails are stored in mbox.
All of it is stored in multiple locations, with encryption(and decryption software) used as needed.I moved all my data because i was tired of being tied to any one platform.
I can access everything i have electronically on all three platforms now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253018</id>
	<title>One Site to Archive Them All</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266930480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://archive.org/" title="archive.org">http://archive.org/</a> [archive.org]</p><p>They've already got a copy of your Geocities sites from the first Digital Dark Age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //archive.org/ [ archive.org ] They 've already got a copy of your Geocities sites from the first Digital Dark Age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://archive.org/ [archive.org]They've already got a copy of your Geocities sites from the first Digital Dark Age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257442</id>
	<title>Re:Forecast: Cloudy forever</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1265110680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The most problematic obstacle to data preservation, IMHO is the current legal and copyright system : A lot of copyrighted data is worth saving, but it raises a lot of problem when it comes to distribute backups of these. Right now, some data created before WWII are still protected by copyrights and saving/distribute them might be illegal, but their copyright holders might also not care for it.<br> <br>
This is a serious legal problem. We might lose a lot of the 20th century data because of unadapted copyright laws.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The most problematic obstacle to data preservation , IMHO is the current legal and copyright system : A lot of copyrighted data is worth saving , but it raises a lot of problem when it comes to distribute backups of these .
Right now , some data created before WWII are still protected by copyrights and saving/distribute them might be illegal , but their copyright holders might also not care for it .
This is a serious legal problem .
We might lose a lot of the 20th century data because of unadapted copyright laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The most problematic obstacle to data preservation, IMHO is the current legal and copyright system : A lot of copyrighted data is worth saving, but it raises a lot of problem when it comes to distribute backups of these.
Right now, some data created before WWII are still protected by copyrights and saving/distribute them might be illegal, but their copyright holders might also not care for it.
This is a serious legal problem.
We might lose a lot of the 20th century data because of unadapted copyright laws.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254306</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>Tibia1</author>
	<datestamp>1266937560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember when I first started recording guitar when I was younger. Now all of the old records just serve to showcase how bad I was, while it still serves for some good comparison, making my new recordings look better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember when I first started recording guitar when I was younger .
Now all of the old records just serve to showcase how bad I was , while it still serves for some good comparison , making my new recordings look better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember when I first started recording guitar when I was younger.
Now all of the old records just serve to showcase how bad I was, while it still serves for some good comparison, making my new recordings look better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253082</id>
	<title>Great!  Now I'll have to buy the White Album again</title>
	<author>BluBrick</author>
	<datestamp>1266930780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We will naturally make multiple copies of everything we consider important, continually transcribing important data onto the latest generation data storage media.  (Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg's big invention.)  Unfortunately, that's not necessarily what will be considered important many generations into the future.  </p><p>I have every confidence that, far into the future, we will have or be able to develop the capability to read any media we preserve today.  The problem then becomes how to determine what data we should should preserve now rather than how to preserve it.  What do we know now that will be important and useful to someone 10^n years from today?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We will naturally make multiple copies of everything we consider important , continually transcribing important data onto the latest generation data storage media .
( Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg 's big invention .
) Unfortunately , that 's not necessarily what will be considered important many generations into the future .
I have every confidence that , far into the future , we will have or be able to develop the capability to read any media we preserve today .
The problem then becomes how to determine what data we should should preserve now rather than how to preserve it .
What do we know now that will be important and useful to someone 10 ^ n years from today ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We will naturally make multiple copies of everything we consider important, continually transcribing important data onto the latest generation data storage media.
(Consider what was the very first publication printed on Gutenberg's big invention.
)  Unfortunately, that's not necessarily what will be considered important many generations into the future.
I have every confidence that, far into the future, we will have or be able to develop the capability to read any media we preserve today.
The problem then becomes how to determine what data we should should preserve now rather than how to preserve it.
What do we know now that will be important and useful to someone 10^n years from today?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255788</id>
	<title>Re:Won't matter</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1266949260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>...It might be a long, long time before someone is able to discern it's purpose...</i></p><p>More likely they'll be studying the perfectly preserved 2,000 year old Twinkie...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...It might be a long , long time before someone is able to discern it 's purpose...More likely they 'll be studying the perfectly preserved 2,000 year old Twinkie.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...It might be a long, long time before someone is able to discern it's purpose...More likely they'll be studying the perfectly preserved 2,000 year old Twinkie...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253888</id>
	<title>Re:The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266934860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The DMCA does have archival exemptions and it doesn't apply to everything.   We don't know what the popular songs were in the 1600s that street musicians played but we still know a remarkable amount and there are family histories and such that fill in a lot of those gaps.   Plus the data that is covered by the DMCA is usually owned by an entity that has a vested interest in making it playable to paying customers.   It's funny, you can get blu-rays with old movies on them but you might have a really hard time playing super8 films your grandfather made of your mom or dad 40 years ago.</p><p>It's startling how quickly things can change in technology,  my wife and I have a VHS recorder somewhere in the basement or garage but we've not used it this century...  The media for storing data,  the formats the data is in,  those are some hard problems on the  generational time scale.  I just did an exercise a couple months ago, copying some CDRs I made in 1993 (from data what was on floppies before that, probably spanning back to the early 1983 or so)  on to newer media.   For reasons I don't know,  I used 6 or 7 different DOS based archivers to save space,  some of which are completely dead and gone (but the compressed really well in 1993...)   I scoured the web to find copies,  then I had to figure out how to make some DOS software work,  then I had to figure out how to actually get the data in to my DOS virtual machine (no networking in DOS and I have long since forgotten how to make a CD-ROM work in DOS...)  and one of those programs happened to do enough exotic crap that it just wouldn't run in Win2000...  This was only 17 years and fortunately I'm the one that assembled the data and I gradually started to remember all the stuff as I recovered it,  someone else might not have figured it all out.   The CDR will worked fine though.</p><p>Even with opensource stuff there is a half life,  I had xiafs based Linux disks at that time, that's long been yanked out of the kernel.   GIFs might not be readable in 15 years,  it's completely possible.  You might laugh but take ZIP, it has to be one of the most ubiquitous formats for data out there,  it won't work with files over 4GB in size and files that big are becoming remarkably common...  So xar or tar or something else starts to generally replace ZIP.  Fast forward 10 more years and you could have some challenges compiling unzip and then using it on your files.</p><p>I think the best thing is to have  a policy of sorts of going back every 5 years and keeping your data living.   The media grows so it's not hard to store it, that's cheap,  but the formats and everything need to be updated along the way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The DMCA does have archival exemptions and it does n't apply to everything .
We do n't know what the popular songs were in the 1600s that street musicians played but we still know a remarkable amount and there are family histories and such that fill in a lot of those gaps .
Plus the data that is covered by the DMCA is usually owned by an entity that has a vested interest in making it playable to paying customers .
It 's funny , you can get blu-rays with old movies on them but you might have a really hard time playing super8 films your grandfather made of your mom or dad 40 years ago.It 's startling how quickly things can change in technology , my wife and I have a VHS recorder somewhere in the basement or garage but we 've not used it this century... The media for storing data , the formats the data is in , those are some hard problems on the generational time scale .
I just did an exercise a couple months ago , copying some CDRs I made in 1993 ( from data what was on floppies before that , probably spanning back to the early 1983 or so ) on to newer media .
For reasons I do n't know , I used 6 or 7 different DOS based archivers to save space , some of which are completely dead and gone ( but the compressed really well in 1993... ) I scoured the web to find copies , then I had to figure out how to make some DOS software work , then I had to figure out how to actually get the data in to my DOS virtual machine ( no networking in DOS and I have long since forgotten how to make a CD-ROM work in DOS... ) and one of those programs happened to do enough exotic crap that it just would n't run in Win2000... This was only 17 years and fortunately I 'm the one that assembled the data and I gradually started to remember all the stuff as I recovered it , someone else might not have figured it all out .
The CDR will worked fine though.Even with opensource stuff there is a half life , I had xiafs based Linux disks at that time , that 's long been yanked out of the kernel .
GIFs might not be readable in 15 years , it 's completely possible .
You might laugh but take ZIP , it has to be one of the most ubiquitous formats for data out there , it wo n't work with files over 4GB in size and files that big are becoming remarkably common... So xar or tar or something else starts to generally replace ZIP .
Fast forward 10 more years and you could have some challenges compiling unzip and then using it on your files.I think the best thing is to have a policy of sorts of going back every 5 years and keeping your data living .
The media grows so it 's not hard to store it , that 's cheap , but the formats and everything need to be updated along the way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The DMCA does have archival exemptions and it doesn't apply to everything.
We don't know what the popular songs were in the 1600s that street musicians played but we still know a remarkable amount and there are family histories and such that fill in a lot of those gaps.
Plus the data that is covered by the DMCA is usually owned by an entity that has a vested interest in making it playable to paying customers.
It's funny, you can get blu-rays with old movies on them but you might have a really hard time playing super8 films your grandfather made of your mom or dad 40 years ago.It's startling how quickly things can change in technology,  my wife and I have a VHS recorder somewhere in the basement or garage but we've not used it this century...  The media for storing data,  the formats the data is in,  those are some hard problems on the  generational time scale.
I just did an exercise a couple months ago, copying some CDRs I made in 1993 (from data what was on floppies before that, probably spanning back to the early 1983 or so)  on to newer media.
For reasons I don't know,  I used 6 or 7 different DOS based archivers to save space,  some of which are completely dead and gone (but the compressed really well in 1993...)   I scoured the web to find copies,  then I had to figure out how to make some DOS software work,  then I had to figure out how to actually get the data in to my DOS virtual machine (no networking in DOS and I have long since forgotten how to make a CD-ROM work in DOS...)  and one of those programs happened to do enough exotic crap that it just wouldn't run in Win2000...  This was only 17 years and fortunately I'm the one that assembled the data and I gradually started to remember all the stuff as I recovered it,  someone else might not have figured it all out.
The CDR will worked fine though.Even with opensource stuff there is a half life,  I had xiafs based Linux disks at that time, that's long been yanked out of the kernel.
GIFs might not be readable in 15 years,  it's completely possible.
You might laugh but take ZIP, it has to be one of the most ubiquitous formats for data out there,  it won't work with files over 4GB in size and files that big are becoming remarkably common...  So xar or tar or something else starts to generally replace ZIP.
Fast forward 10 more years and you could have some challenges compiling unzip and then using it on your files.I think the best thing is to have  a policy of sorts of going back every 5 years and keeping your data living.
The media grows so it's not hard to store it, that's cheap,  but the formats and everything need to be updated along the way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254294</id>
	<title>"We need copies. Lots of copies."</title>
	<author>sfled</author>
	<datestamp>1266937500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously. Many copies. Multiple, ad-nauseum uber redundancy. And, so what about that DRM crap? Is it \_that\_ important to preserve pop music? If so, when did DRM ever stop us? Burn a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray and then RIP it, upload the thing. Put it on a hardened RAID, what...ever.</p><p>True, technology is an ever more complex cycle. I guess we should try to get the info/code down to lowest common denominator. Text? If so, what language? Boggles the mind..but if the unthinkable happens then maybe we can assist the great minds millenia hence rediscover what we did. What we did right, and how to avoid what we did wrong.</p><p>So I repeat, whatever the content is, tech records can be fragile. To paraphrase, "We need copies. Lots of copies."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
Many copies .
Multiple , ad-nauseum uber redundancy .
And , so what about that DRM crap ?
Is it \ _that \ _ important to preserve pop music ?
If so , when did DRM ever stop us ?
Burn a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray and then RIP it , upload the thing .
Put it on a hardened RAID , what...ever.True , technology is an ever more complex cycle .
I guess we should try to get the info/code down to lowest common denominator .
Text ? If so , what language ?
Boggles the mind..but if the unthinkable happens then maybe we can assist the great minds millenia hence rediscover what we did .
What we did right , and how to avoid what we did wrong.So I repeat , whatever the content is , tech records can be fragile .
To paraphrase , " We need copies .
Lots of copies .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
Many copies.
Multiple, ad-nauseum uber redundancy.
And, so what about that DRM crap?
Is it \_that\_ important to preserve pop music?
If so, when did DRM ever stop us?
Burn a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray and then RIP it, upload the thing.
Put it on a hardened RAID, what...ever.True, technology is an ever more complex cycle.
I guess we should try to get the info/code down to lowest common denominator.
Text? If so, what language?
Boggles the mind..but if the unthinkable happens then maybe we can assist the great minds millenia hence rediscover what we did.
What we did right, and how to avoid what we did wrong.So I repeat, whatever the content is, tech records can be fragile.
To paraphrase, "We need copies.
Lots of copies.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253354</id>
	<title>It's more than just web pages.</title>
	<author>OrionSeven</author>
	<datestamp>1266932040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Archives.org isn't enough. The digital problem is more than just web sites. Every state records legal files with various methods, platforms and formats. Tiff's, JPEG's, WAV's, PDF's and more are the real heart of this issue along with web sites.</p><p>The Washington State Digital Archives (http://digitalarchives.wa.gov/) is already taking on this issue and has been for five years. Hopefully, more than just a few state will get serious about this issue.</p><p>We may have already lost files from 15 years ago, but that doesn't mean we have to loose files from this year.</p><p>(Full disclosure, I work for there.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Archives.org is n't enough .
The digital problem is more than just web sites .
Every state records legal files with various methods , platforms and formats .
Tiff 's , JPEG 's , WAV 's , PDF 's and more are the real heart of this issue along with web sites.The Washington State Digital Archives ( http : //digitalarchives.wa.gov/ ) is already taking on this issue and has been for five years .
Hopefully , more than just a few state will get serious about this issue.We may have already lost files from 15 years ago , but that does n't mean we have to loose files from this year .
( Full disclosure , I work for there .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Archives.org isn't enough.
The digital problem is more than just web sites.
Every state records legal files with various methods, platforms and formats.
Tiff's, JPEG's, WAV's, PDF's and more are the real heart of this issue along with web sites.The Washington State Digital Archives (http://digitalarchives.wa.gov/) is already taking on this issue and has been for five years.
Hopefully, more than just a few state will get serious about this issue.We may have already lost files from 15 years ago, but that doesn't mean we have to loose files from this year.
(Full disclosure, I work for there.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254574</id>
	<title>Re:924 Years and nothing has changed</title>
	<author>QuantumG</author>
	<datestamp>1266939300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years.</p></div><p>Sweet, got an url?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years.Sweet , got an url ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile the original book is still readable after more than 900 years.Sweet, got an url?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253378</id>
	<title>Cranberry DiamonDisc: 1000 years</title>
	<author>Bleek II</author>
	<datestamp>1266932100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Cranberry DiamonDisc is a 1000 year option already on the market. They aren't cheap but they should come down in price if they're able to get a enough costumers to bring the supply up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Cranberry DiamonDisc is a 1000 year option already on the market .
They are n't cheap but they should come down in price if they 're able to get a enough costumers to bring the supply up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Cranberry DiamonDisc is a 1000 year option already on the market.
They aren't cheap but they should come down in price if they're able to get a enough costumers to bring the supply up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257620</id>
	<title>Solution might be keep making backups + VM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265113020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I started using computers I had 1 5"1/4 floppy drive, when I got a 3"1/2 drive I made backups of my old floppies, then I got a HD, then a ZIP drive, archived all my floppy and HD inf on ZIP disks, at the same time as I kept getting bigger HD, I kept a backup of my old HD on the new one including backups of my ZIP drives, cds/dvds. It's true today I have ~6TB of data where ~1/3 of them are backups (of backups of backups), and I got those 6TB backuped as well, but I still can get my 25 years old floppies! Virtual Machines &amp; emulation should also ensure being able to access/use those informations, it may require in the future to run emulators through emulators....<br>Only problem I see: in case of strong EMP/solar flare, all the word's data may be destroyed (would optical media be destroyed as well like when you put them in the microwave?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I started using computers I had 1 5 " 1/4 floppy drive , when I got a 3 " 1/2 drive I made backups of my old floppies , then I got a HD , then a ZIP drive , archived all my floppy and HD inf on ZIP disks , at the same time as I kept getting bigger HD , I kept a backup of my old HD on the new one including backups of my ZIP drives , cds/dvds .
It 's true today I have ~ 6TB of data where ~ 1/3 of them are backups ( of backups of backups ) , and I got those 6TB backuped as well , but I still can get my 25 years old floppies !
Virtual Machines &amp; emulation should also ensure being able to access/use those informations , it may require in the future to run emulators through emulators....Only problem I see : in case of strong EMP/solar flare , all the word 's data may be destroyed ( would optical media be destroyed as well like when you put them in the microwave ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I started using computers I had 1 5"1/4 floppy drive, when I got a 3"1/2 drive I made backups of my old floppies, then I got a HD, then a ZIP drive, archived all my floppy and HD inf on ZIP disks, at the same time as I kept getting bigger HD, I kept a backup of my old HD on the new one including backups of my ZIP drives, cds/dvds.
It's true today I have ~6TB of data where ~1/3 of them are backups (of backups of backups), and I got those 6TB backuped as well, but I still can get my 25 years old floppies!
Virtual Machines &amp; emulation should also ensure being able to access/use those informations, it may require in the future to run emulators through emulators....Only problem I see: in case of strong EMP/solar flare, all the word's data may be destroyed (would optical media be destroyed as well like when you put them in the microwave?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256784</id>
	<title>This is old news</title>
	<author>rfc1394</author>
	<datestamp>1265103000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tried posting the following reply on the website the original article appeared on, but their comment system kept having an error so I'll post it here and expand upon what I would have said.</p><p>There is nothing new here; the problems of electronic data deteriorating or becoming unreadable because of proprietary lock in of various closed-source applications is well-known going back more than 20 years that I'm aware of, and certainly a lot longer than that.  The use of wire recorders, player piano rolls, 78-RPM records, phonorecords now, 8-track tapes, laserdiscs, 8" floppies, 5 1/4" floppies, Jazz discs, Zip discs, and now 3 1/2 inch floppies, (and lots of other media I know I've forgotten) are all now obsolete storage media, some of which may have data which can no-longer be retrieved because the hardware and/or software to read them is unavailable, lost or forgotten.</p><p>RMS on Digital PDP minicomputers running RSX and RSTS and VAX machines and OS .  ISAM and PAM on Univac VS/9 OS on 90/60<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/70 and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/80.  VSAM on IBM mainframes (except the few places continuing to run z-System). The Control Data Cyber systems and their data file formats.  Gould, Goodyear, Harris and RCA mainframes.  All of these are basically obsolete, most if not all are gone, and data stored on media from those systems, if developed by a proprietary application, is probably, for all intents and purposes, lost forever even if the data is still present.  The media may have deteriorated, and the systems to read them are essentially nonexistent.</p><p>Mechanisms for regular conversion as technology changes have to be provided for.  This, however, requires that as the older media ages, that there be budget and personnel available to provide the conversion while both old and new media types are available.  As the case of NASA cited in the article (an employee scrounged equipment and tapes on her own in order to keep the data alive until a means to retrieve it could be found), sometimes either or both may not be available.</p><p>Libraries have mentioned how their resources are stretched thin as it is, they may not have the funds or trained personnel to export old data to new media.  And at the rate media keep changing this is happening more and more frequently.  30 years ago is 1980, 250K 8" disks are still in use.  The 5 1/4" 360K disc is popular because of MS DOS machines.  20 years ago is 1990, and then, the 5 1/4 was still and 3 1/2 inch floppies were becoming popular, 15 years ago a reasonable medium for high-capacity storage were 100-meg zip disks.   Now I don't even have a 5 1/4" drive, my computer still has a 3 1/2 but I don't have any floppies or use them, because I have a 4 gb jump drive I wear on a lanyard around my neck, and cost ten bucks.</p><p>We've gone to digital storage because it's orders of magnitude cheaper than analog.  I've pointed out in previous articles that with a digital camera and 4GB SD cards, I can take thousands of pictures at an effective cost per picture that effectively rounds to zero.  A single photo might take 1/2 to 1 meg, which means, without changing media, I can take upwards of 3,500 photos.  Net cost is $10 when the media is bought; nothing more unless I print an image.  When I take pictures, I don't take one, I take 3, or 5, or 20 because the extra pictures are essentially free and I can delete the ones I don't want later.  When I was using 35MM film, each photo, with film and developing, was about 30c.  A couple hundred pictures would set you back over US$50.  Today, for $50 I can take more than 20,000 images.

</p><p>But my sister still has an older digital camera that uses Smartmedia,  She has to be careful to copy her images to hard disc when she uses it because you basically can't buy smartmedia any more and even when you could, the maximum size was 128 meg. Her photos were in the 150K size range so she can still take more than 500 photos on a 64M chip, and also the cost is effectively zero. </p><p>And for current media it's still near-zero per image.  I bought a 1 te</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried posting the following reply on the website the original article appeared on , but their comment system kept having an error so I 'll post it here and expand upon what I would have said.There is nothing new here ; the problems of electronic data deteriorating or becoming unreadable because of proprietary lock in of various closed-source applications is well-known going back more than 20 years that I 'm aware of , and certainly a lot longer than that .
The use of wire recorders , player piano rolls , 78-RPM records , phonorecords now , 8-track tapes , laserdiscs , 8 " floppies , 5 1/4 " floppies , Jazz discs , Zip discs , and now 3 1/2 inch floppies , ( and lots of other media I know I 've forgotten ) are all now obsolete storage media , some of which may have data which can no-longer be retrieved because the hardware and/or software to read them is unavailable , lost or forgotten.RMS on Digital PDP minicomputers running RSX and RSTS and VAX machines and OS .
ISAM and PAM on Univac VS/9 OS on 90/60 /70 and /80 .
VSAM on IBM mainframes ( except the few places continuing to run z-System ) .
The Control Data Cyber systems and their data file formats .
Gould , Goodyear , Harris and RCA mainframes .
All of these are basically obsolete , most if not all are gone , and data stored on media from those systems , if developed by a proprietary application , is probably , for all intents and purposes , lost forever even if the data is still present .
The media may have deteriorated , and the systems to read them are essentially nonexistent.Mechanisms for regular conversion as technology changes have to be provided for .
This , however , requires that as the older media ages , that there be budget and personnel available to provide the conversion while both old and new media types are available .
As the case of NASA cited in the article ( an employee scrounged equipment and tapes on her own in order to keep the data alive until a means to retrieve it could be found ) , sometimes either or both may not be available.Libraries have mentioned how their resources are stretched thin as it is , they may not have the funds or trained personnel to export old data to new media .
And at the rate media keep changing this is happening more and more frequently .
30 years ago is 1980 , 250K 8 " disks are still in use .
The 5 1/4 " 360K disc is popular because of MS DOS machines .
20 years ago is 1990 , and then , the 5 1/4 was still and 3 1/2 inch floppies were becoming popular , 15 years ago a reasonable medium for high-capacity storage were 100-meg zip disks .
Now I do n't even have a 5 1/4 " drive , my computer still has a 3 1/2 but I do n't have any floppies or use them , because I have a 4 gb jump drive I wear on a lanyard around my neck , and cost ten bucks.We 've gone to digital storage because it 's orders of magnitude cheaper than analog .
I 've pointed out in previous articles that with a digital camera and 4GB SD cards , I can take thousands of pictures at an effective cost per picture that effectively rounds to zero .
A single photo might take 1/2 to 1 meg , which means , without changing media , I can take upwards of 3,500 photos .
Net cost is $ 10 when the media is bought ; nothing more unless I print an image .
When I take pictures , I do n't take one , I take 3 , or 5 , or 20 because the extra pictures are essentially free and I can delete the ones I do n't want later .
When I was using 35MM film , each photo , with film and developing , was about 30c .
A couple hundred pictures would set you back over US $ 50 .
Today , for $ 50 I can take more than 20,000 images .
But my sister still has an older digital camera that uses Smartmedia , She has to be careful to copy her images to hard disc when she uses it because you basically ca n't buy smartmedia any more and even when you could , the maximum size was 128 meg .
Her photos were in the 150K size range so she can still take more than 500 photos on a 64M chip , and also the cost is effectively zero .
And for current media it 's still near-zero per image .
I bought a 1 te</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried posting the following reply on the website the original article appeared on, but their comment system kept having an error so I'll post it here and expand upon what I would have said.There is nothing new here; the problems of electronic data deteriorating or becoming unreadable because of proprietary lock in of various closed-source applications is well-known going back more than 20 years that I'm aware of, and certainly a lot longer than that.
The use of wire recorders, player piano rolls, 78-RPM records, phonorecords now, 8-track tapes, laserdiscs, 8" floppies, 5 1/4" floppies, Jazz discs, Zip discs, and now 3 1/2 inch floppies, (and lots of other media I know I've forgotten) are all now obsolete storage media, some of which may have data which can no-longer be retrieved because the hardware and/or software to read them is unavailable, lost or forgotten.RMS on Digital PDP minicomputers running RSX and RSTS and VAX machines and OS .
ISAM and PAM on Univac VS/9 OS on 90/60 /70 and /80.
VSAM on IBM mainframes (except the few places continuing to run z-System).
The Control Data Cyber systems and their data file formats.
Gould, Goodyear, Harris and RCA mainframes.
All of these are basically obsolete, most if not all are gone, and data stored on media from those systems, if developed by a proprietary application, is probably, for all intents and purposes, lost forever even if the data is still present.
The media may have deteriorated, and the systems to read them are essentially nonexistent.Mechanisms for regular conversion as technology changes have to be provided for.
This, however, requires that as the older media ages, that there be budget and personnel available to provide the conversion while both old and new media types are available.
As the case of NASA cited in the article (an employee scrounged equipment and tapes on her own in order to keep the data alive until a means to retrieve it could be found), sometimes either or both may not be available.Libraries have mentioned how their resources are stretched thin as it is, they may not have the funds or trained personnel to export old data to new media.
And at the rate media keep changing this is happening more and more frequently.
30 years ago is 1980, 250K 8" disks are still in use.
The 5 1/4" 360K disc is popular because of MS DOS machines.
20 years ago is 1990, and then, the 5 1/4 was still and 3 1/2 inch floppies were becoming popular, 15 years ago a reasonable medium for high-capacity storage were 100-meg zip disks.
Now I don't even have a 5 1/4" drive, my computer still has a 3 1/2 but I don't have any floppies or use them, because I have a 4 gb jump drive I wear on a lanyard around my neck, and cost ten bucks.We've gone to digital storage because it's orders of magnitude cheaper than analog.
I've pointed out in previous articles that with a digital camera and 4GB SD cards, I can take thousands of pictures at an effective cost per picture that effectively rounds to zero.
A single photo might take 1/2 to 1 meg, which means, without changing media, I can take upwards of 3,500 photos.
Net cost is $10 when the media is bought; nothing more unless I print an image.
When I take pictures, I don't take one, I take 3, or 5, or 20 because the extra pictures are essentially free and I can delete the ones I don't want later.
When I was using 35MM film, each photo, with film and developing, was about 30c.
A couple hundred pictures would set you back over US$50.
Today, for $50 I can take more than 20,000 images.
But my sister still has an older digital camera that uses Smartmedia,  She has to be careful to copy her images to hard disc when she uses it because you basically can't buy smartmedia any more and even when you could, the maximum size was 128 meg.
Her photos were in the 150K size range so she can still take more than 500 photos on a 64M chip, and also the cost is effectively zero.
And for current media it's still near-zero per image.
I bought a 1 te</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254606</id>
	<title>Re:The Middle Ages didn't have the DMCA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266939660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The producers are making lots of copies themselves.  Not everything will survive.  The library of Alexandria is a good example of great intentions, lots of care, and insane loss.  It will happen again and again, and yet enough will ooze out of the cracks to inform the future generations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The producers are making lots of copies themselves .
Not everything will survive .
The library of Alexandria is a good example of great intentions , lots of care , and insane loss .
It will happen again and again , and yet enough will ooze out of the cracks to inform the future generations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The producers are making lots of copies themselves.
Not everything will survive.
The library of Alexandria is a good example of great intentions, lots of care, and insane loss.
It will happen again and again, and yet enough will ooze out of the cracks to inform the future generations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254064</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Locklin</author>
	<datestamp>1266935820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly. It's not a technological problem it's a legal problem. The institutions that preserve printed material (mostly libraries) would be happy to help preserve digital information -if it was possible. Unfortunately nearly all digital content cannot be copied legally, and thus cannot be effectively archived by libraries. It takes a team of lawyers to do what archive.org does with web pages, and forget anything multimedia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
It 's not a technological problem it 's a legal problem .
The institutions that preserve printed material ( mostly libraries ) would be happy to help preserve digital information -if it was possible .
Unfortunately nearly all digital content can not be copied legally , and thus can not be effectively archived by libraries .
It takes a team of lawyers to do what archive.org does with web pages , and forget anything multimedia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
It's not a technological problem it's a legal problem.
The institutions that preserve printed material (mostly libraries) would be happy to help preserve digital information -if it was possible.
Unfortunately nearly all digital content cannot be copied legally, and thus cannot be effectively archived by libraries.
It takes a team of lawyers to do what archive.org does with web pages, and forget anything multimedia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255328</id>
	<title>So who's curating their own pr0n archive? Anyone?</title>
	<author>Dr. Spork</author>
	<datestamp>1266944820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that some intrepid information preservationists on slashdot are doing their best to preserve a copious volume of our pr0n for future historians! You just know that it what they'll all want to study!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that some intrepid information preservationists on slashdot are doing their best to preserve a copious volume of our pr0n for future historians !
You just know that it what they 'll all want to study !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that some intrepid information preservationists on slashdot are doing their best to preserve a copious volume of our pr0n for future historians!
You just know that it what they'll all want to study!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31255398</id>
	<title>Speaking as a historian focused 1950-1990 Western</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266945420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Significant amounts of data have been lost due to:<br># Loss of physical mechanisms to retrieve data from media<br># Programs and Operating Systems that will not retrieve and convert for use stored data<br># Inability to convert documents as they were produced, used, read and received into a modern or permanent archival format (what, it lost the Italics / Umlauts)</p><p>But the main problems are:<br># Good records keeping policy not applied to data bases / electronic data<br># Good records keeping policy not applied to electronically generated documents<br># A general decline in the quality of filing and records keeping policy with the computerisation of many office correspondence tasks and with the decline in pay and skill levels for white collar menial labour employees.</p><p>At the heart of the problem is a general decline in the quality of filing from about 1965 onwards.  As far as I can tell from documentary records, the increase in office duplication technology encouraged this as records no longer became difficult to copy individual items, but became roneo'd and xerox'd pieces of disposable paper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Significant amounts of data have been lost due to : # Loss of physical mechanisms to retrieve data from media # Programs and Operating Systems that will not retrieve and convert for use stored data # Inability to convert documents as they were produced , used , read and received into a modern or permanent archival format ( what , it lost the Italics / Umlauts ) But the main problems are : # Good records keeping policy not applied to data bases / electronic data # Good records keeping policy not applied to electronically generated documents # A general decline in the quality of filing and records keeping policy with the computerisation of many office correspondence tasks and with the decline in pay and skill levels for white collar menial labour employees.At the heart of the problem is a general decline in the quality of filing from about 1965 onwards .
As far as I can tell from documentary records , the increase in office duplication technology encouraged this as records no longer became difficult to copy individual items , but became roneo 'd and xerox 'd pieces of disposable paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Significant amounts of data have been lost due to:# Loss of physical mechanisms to retrieve data from media# Programs and Operating Systems that will not retrieve and convert for use stored data# Inability to convert documents as they were produced, used, read and received into a modern or permanent archival format (what, it lost the Italics / Umlauts)But the main problems are:# Good records keeping policy not applied to data bases / electronic data# Good records keeping policy not applied to electronically generated documents# A general decline in the quality of filing and records keeping policy with the computerisation of many office correspondence tasks and with the decline in pay and skill levels for white collar menial labour employees.At the heart of the problem is a general decline in the quality of filing from about 1965 onwards.
As far as I can tell from documentary records, the increase in office duplication technology encouraged this as records no longer became difficult to copy individual items, but became roneo'd and xerox'd pieces of disposable paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31257230</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>RMH101</author>
	<datestamp>1265108340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hear a sound: as if a million [BLINK] tags and "Under Construction" animated gifs were extinguished at the same time</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear a sound : as if a million [ BLINK ] tags and " Under Construction " animated gifs were extinguished at the same time</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear a sound: as if a million [BLINK] tags and "Under Construction" animated gifs were extinguished at the same time</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253282</id>
	<title>Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266931680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my own quest to preserve my digital photos, I've created multiple backups on hard disk including a remote backup which gets updated every few months. I use different disks created by different manufacturers and buy new disks every couple of years (but do not throw away old copies).</p><p>I've recently come across another aspect that isn't addressed by the article. Data that is in use in an online copy can be modified (including corrupted).There is no point in copying/propagating data if the data you are copying is damaged.  Typically this has happened when I've tried DAM software like Lightroom which will modify the original file despite claiming to be non-destructive  I have no proof that photos were re-encoded or quality was reduced but I do know original files were altered, and I want an original unaltered file preserved</p><p>Most people when they backup files do very little verification to ensure the files they are copying today are the same files that were created 5 or 10 years ago. They rely too much on backup software to do this for them, with no attention paid to what's happened to the data between copies. To keep this under control I've started putting checksums on all my photo files, which I check when I create a fresh copy.</p><p>Of course where my photos are captured in a proprietary format I copy to an open or at least well documented format (typically jpg, sometimes also tif). This is done as soon as I transfer the photos, which are not removed from the camera card until i have 2 additional copies. So I shouldn't have the same issues that the author had assuming jpg can still be read throughout my lifetime.</p><p>--<br>Sammy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my own quest to preserve my digital photos , I 've created multiple backups on hard disk including a remote backup which gets updated every few months .
I use different disks created by different manufacturers and buy new disks every couple of years ( but do not throw away old copies ) .I 've recently come across another aspect that is n't addressed by the article .
Data that is in use in an online copy can be modified ( including corrupted ) .There is no point in copying/propagating data if the data you are copying is damaged .
Typically this has happened when I 've tried DAM software like Lightroom which will modify the original file despite claiming to be non-destructive I have no proof that photos were re-encoded or quality was reduced but I do know original files were altered , and I want an original unaltered file preservedMost people when they backup files do very little verification to ensure the files they are copying today are the same files that were created 5 or 10 years ago .
They rely too much on backup software to do this for them , with no attention paid to what 's happened to the data between copies .
To keep this under control I 've started putting checksums on all my photo files , which I check when I create a fresh copy.Of course where my photos are captured in a proprietary format I copy to an open or at least well documented format ( typically jpg , sometimes also tif ) .
This is done as soon as I transfer the photos , which are not removed from the camera card until i have 2 additional copies .
So I should n't have the same issues that the author had assuming jpg can still be read throughout my lifetime.--Sammy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my own quest to preserve my digital photos, I've created multiple backups on hard disk including a remote backup which gets updated every few months.
I use different disks created by different manufacturers and buy new disks every couple of years (but do not throw away old copies).I've recently come across another aspect that isn't addressed by the article.
Data that is in use in an online copy can be modified (including corrupted).There is no point in copying/propagating data if the data you are copying is damaged.
Typically this has happened when I've tried DAM software like Lightroom which will modify the original file despite claiming to be non-destructive  I have no proof that photos were re-encoded or quality was reduced but I do know original files were altered, and I want an original unaltered file preservedMost people when they backup files do very little verification to ensure the files they are copying today are the same files that were created 5 or 10 years ago.
They rely too much on backup software to do this for them, with no attention paid to what's happened to the data between copies.
To keep this under control I've started putting checksums on all my photo files, which I check when I create a fresh copy.Of course where my photos are captured in a proprietary format I copy to an open or at least well documented format (typically jpg, sometimes also tif).
This is done as soon as I transfer the photos, which are not removed from the camera card until i have 2 additional copies.
So I shouldn't have the same issues that the author had assuming jpg can still be read throughout my lifetime.--Sammy</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252842</id>
	<title>The question remains</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266929580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much of it is really worth saving? Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much of it is really worth saving ?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much of it is really worth saving?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253532</id>
	<title>Terrorism is our savior!</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1266932880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With all the pushing by law enforcement for permanent archiving of everybody's web use the problem will solve itself!</p><p>Rah! Rah! for terrosists - they hate our freedom but they <a href="http://livingwithanerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/TerroristsHateFreedom.gif" title="livingwithanerd.com">have saved our culture from fading from history!</a> [livingwithanerd.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With all the pushing by law enforcement for permanent archiving of everybody 's web use the problem will solve itself ! Rah !
Rah ! for terrosists - they hate our freedom but they have saved our culture from fading from history !
[ livingwithanerd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With all the pushing by law enforcement for permanent archiving of everybody's web use the problem will solve itself!Rah!
Rah! for terrosists - they hate our freedom but they have saved our culture from fading from history!
[livingwithanerd.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253728</id>
	<title>Old Sierra Games</title>
	<author>AnotherAnonymousUser</author>
	<datestamp>1266933960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anyone who remembers some of the old Sierra games knew how they occasionally had glitches or bugs that would cause the game to crash completely. Though Sierra would sometimes drag their asses about support, at one point or another the fans would patch the games themselves and publish the unofficial patch to the web. Quest For Glory IV was a perfect example of this; a fantastic game, but it had a few very memorable glitches that would cause the game to crash. The problem was that these fan patches were most often hosted on Geocities or Angelfire sites, most of which have since vanished from the world, leaving the games unplayable, unable to be completed, and unfixed hosts to whatever problems plagued them at the time of their publishing. Something that would have been a "popular" fix even just a few years ago is now irretrievable; forums point to dead links, users have long-since abandoned the posts, and the files themselves are nowhere to be found because of the death of the hosts. Obviously it's minor in the grand scheme of the history of the nation, but it *is* a good indicator of just how much can be culled within a very short period of time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone who remembers some of the old Sierra games knew how they occasionally had glitches or bugs that would cause the game to crash completely .
Though Sierra would sometimes drag their asses about support , at one point or another the fans would patch the games themselves and publish the unofficial patch to the web .
Quest For Glory IV was a perfect example of this ; a fantastic game , but it had a few very memorable glitches that would cause the game to crash .
The problem was that these fan patches were most often hosted on Geocities or Angelfire sites , most of which have since vanished from the world , leaving the games unplayable , unable to be completed , and unfixed hosts to whatever problems plagued them at the time of their publishing .
Something that would have been a " popular " fix even just a few years ago is now irretrievable ; forums point to dead links , users have long-since abandoned the posts , and the files themselves are nowhere to be found because of the death of the hosts .
Obviously it 's minor in the grand scheme of the history of the nation , but it * is * a good indicator of just how much can be culled within a very short period of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone who remembers some of the old Sierra games knew how they occasionally had glitches or bugs that would cause the game to crash completely.
Though Sierra would sometimes drag their asses about support, at one point or another the fans would patch the games themselves and publish the unofficial patch to the web.
Quest For Glory IV was a perfect example of this; a fantastic game, but it had a few very memorable glitches that would cause the game to crash.
The problem was that these fan patches were most often hosted on Geocities or Angelfire sites, most of which have since vanished from the world, leaving the games unplayable, unable to be completed, and unfixed hosts to whatever problems plagued them at the time of their publishing.
Something that would have been a "popular" fix even just a few years ago is now irretrievable; forums point to dead links, users have long-since abandoned the posts, and the files themselves are nowhere to be found because of the death of the hosts.
Obviously it's minor in the grand scheme of the history of the nation, but it *is* a good indicator of just how much can be culled within a very short period of time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252912</id>
	<title>Does anyone learn from history anymore?</title>
	<author>mrbene</author>
	<datestamp>1266929940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it - but these days, it seems that there's more and more effort put into actively avoiding learning from history.
</p><p>Or maybe I've just hit that age when The Kids ought to get off My Lawn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it - but these days , it seems that there 's more and more effort put into actively avoiding learning from history .
Or maybe I 've just hit that age when The Kids ought to get off My Lawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it - but these days, it seems that there's more and more effort put into actively avoiding learning from history.
Or maybe I've just hit that age when The Kids ought to get off My Lawn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254244</id>
	<title>Sponsored by?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266937020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Was this article sponsored by HP, Epson, Canon, Lexmark, and Xerox perchance?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was this article sponsored by HP , Epson , Canon , Lexmark , and Xerox perchance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was this article sponsored by HP, Epson, Canon, Lexmark, and Xerox perchance?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253302</id>
	<title>Re:The fight is lost</title>
	<author>Synthaxx</author>
	<datestamp>1266931740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Atari ST disks are all archived on my raid5 with backups.</p><p>And guess which ones made the cut, it's not the ones with codewheels and junky color swatches. It's the ones with the catchy introtunes and the scroller texts that read "elite" or "automation".<br>The guys liberating these media are gonna be remebered for a damn long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Atari ST disks are all archived on my raid5 with backups.And guess which ones made the cut , it 's not the ones with codewheels and junky color swatches .
It 's the ones with the catchy introtunes and the scroller texts that read " elite " or " automation " .The guys liberating these media are gon na be remebered for a damn long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Atari ST disks are all archived on my raid5 with backups.And guess which ones made the cut, it's not the ones with codewheels and junky color swatches.
It's the ones with the catchy introtunes and the scroller texts that read "elite" or "automation".The guys liberating these media are gonna be remebered for a damn long time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31261272</id>
	<title>Re:The question remains</title>
	<author>Foobar of Borg</author>
	<datestamp>1265134680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How much of it is really worth saving? Except <b>The Goatse image</b> and a good RickRoll video I mean...</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Yes, I can just see it now.  An archeologist 5000 years from now uncovers an ancient CD-R perfectly preserved in an old, discarded refrigerator.  After years of painstaking study, he finally figures out how to decode the information.  He uses his specially created device to read the disk and places the first picture on his display.</p><p>A split second later, the other researchers at the university are treated to a blood-curdling scream of "My Eyes! My beautiful eyes!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much of it is really worth saving ?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean.. . Yes , I can just see it now .
An archeologist 5000 years from now uncovers an ancient CD-R perfectly preserved in an old , discarded refrigerator .
After years of painstaking study , he finally figures out how to decode the information .
He uses his specially created device to read the disk and places the first picture on his display.A split second later , the other researchers at the university are treated to a blood-curdling scream of " My Eyes !
My beautiful eyes !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much of it is really worth saving?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...
Yes, I can just see it now.
An archeologist 5000 years from now uncovers an ancient CD-R perfectly preserved in an old, discarded refrigerator.
After years of painstaking study, he finally figures out how to decode the information.
He uses his specially created device to read the disk and places the first picture on his display.A split second later, the other researchers at the university are treated to a blood-curdling scream of "My Eyes!
My beautiful eyes!
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31256632</id>
	<title>Re:perfect example: Geocities</title>
	<author>burningcpu</author>
	<datestamp>1265144280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh boy, this got me interested in my old geocities site that I hacked together in I was ~10. I just saw it at archive.org. This is like a checklist of crap that noobs put on geocities. <br>

I had a repeating animated GIF of a spinning playboy bunny that I made with some shaddy program I downloaded off of cnet.com<br> <br>
The main page played low rider midi and there were least 3 frames going on. Top, left, right. <br> <br>
My clan's name was AFKMFERS, which was obvious code for ass kicking mother fuckers, and I had an animated GIF of it spinning around<br> <br>
Some lame guestbook full of spam<br> <br>
Under Construction signs<br> <br>

All that is left at archive.org is the carcass, some badly lain frames and broken images. If you really must see, and you have a morbid imagination, here you go. <br> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/3381/" title="geocities.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/3381/</a> [geocities.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh boy , this got me interested in my old geocities site that I hacked together in I was ~ 10 .
I just saw it at archive.org .
This is like a checklist of crap that noobs put on geocities .
I had a repeating animated GIF of a spinning playboy bunny that I made with some shaddy program I downloaded off of cnet.com The main page played low rider midi and there were least 3 frames going on .
Top , left , right .
My clan 's name was AFKMFERS , which was obvious code for ass kicking mother fuckers , and I had an animated GIF of it spinning around Some lame guestbook full of spam Under Construction signs All that is left at archive.org is the carcass , some badly lain frames and broken images .
If you really must see , and you have a morbid imagination , here you go .
http : //www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/3381/ [ geocities.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh boy, this got me interested in my old geocities site that I hacked together in I was ~10.
I just saw it at archive.org.
This is like a checklist of crap that noobs put on geocities.
I had a repeating animated GIF of a spinning playboy bunny that I made with some shaddy program I downloaded off of cnet.com 
The main page played low rider midi and there were least 3 frames going on.
Top, left, right.
My clan's name was AFKMFERS, which was obvious code for ass kicking mother fuckers, and I had an animated GIF of it spinning around 
Some lame guestbook full of spam 
Under Construction signs 

All that is left at archive.org is the carcass, some badly lain frames and broken images.
If you really must see, and you have a morbid imagination, here you go.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/3381/ [geocities.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254268</id>
	<title>Re:Lots of other things to consider</title>
	<author>swillden</author>
	<datestamp>1266937320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>bad choice! jpeg is lossy format, information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction!</p></div><p>That's the SECOND bad choice!

</p><p>The FIRST bad choice is taking digital photos!  They're inherently limited approximations of the actual scene; numerous issues with optics, internal filters, sensors and digital post-processing lose tremendous amounts of information.

</p><p>Actually the ZEROTH bad choice is taking photos at all!  Film has its own problems, and not only that, any single-lens image capture device automatically discards all depth information!

</p><p>Seriously, the tiny amount of information discarded by JPEGs is negligible in nearly all cases.  And I speak from the perspective of an advanced amateur photographer who shoots everything in RAW to ensure that I have every possible bit of information available for me to use in post-processing (a big part of which is the process of deliberately discarding information that I don't <i>want</i> in the image).

</p><p>If the JPEG looks good enough on your screen that it shows what you care to see and it's what you want to keep, by all means keep it.  Bothering yourself about putting everything into an "archival, lossless" format will just bloat your image store and perhaps make the whole thing too bothersome to worry about.

</p><p>If you're going to put a lot of effort into image preservation, what's more important is to focus on preserving the contextual information that NEVER WAS capture by the camera.  Dates, locations, people, events... that contextual data will add a lot more value to future users of the data than what gets discarded during JPEG compression.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>bad choice !
jpeg is lossy format , information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction ! That 's the SECOND bad choice !
The FIRST bad choice is taking digital photos !
They 're inherently limited approximations of the actual scene ; numerous issues with optics , internal filters , sensors and digital post-processing lose tremendous amounts of information .
Actually the ZEROTH bad choice is taking photos at all !
Film has its own problems , and not only that , any single-lens image capture device automatically discards all depth information !
Seriously , the tiny amount of information discarded by JPEGs is negligible in nearly all cases .
And I speak from the perspective of an advanced amateur photographer who shoots everything in RAW to ensure that I have every possible bit of information available for me to use in post-processing ( a big part of which is the process of deliberately discarding information that I do n't want in the image ) .
If the JPEG looks good enough on your screen that it shows what you care to see and it 's what you want to keep , by all means keep it .
Bothering yourself about putting everything into an " archival , lossless " format will just bloat your image store and perhaps make the whole thing too bothersome to worry about .
If you 're going to put a lot of effort into image preservation , what 's more important is to focus on preserving the contextual information that NEVER WAS capture by the camera .
Dates , locations , people , events... that contextual data will add a lot more value to future users of the data than what gets discarded during JPEG compression .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>bad choice!
jpeg is lossy format, information is deliberately dropped to make an approximate reproduction!That's the SECOND bad choice!
The FIRST bad choice is taking digital photos!
They're inherently limited approximations of the actual scene; numerous issues with optics, internal filters, sensors and digital post-processing lose tremendous amounts of information.
Actually the ZEROTH bad choice is taking photos at all!
Film has its own problems, and not only that, any single-lens image capture device automatically discards all depth information!
Seriously, the tiny amount of information discarded by JPEGs is negligible in nearly all cases.
And I speak from the perspective of an advanced amateur photographer who shoots everything in RAW to ensure that I have every possible bit of information available for me to use in post-processing (a big part of which is the process of deliberately discarding information that I don't want in the image).
If the JPEG looks good enough on your screen that it shows what you care to see and it's what you want to keep, by all means keep it.
Bothering yourself about putting everything into an "archival, lossless" format will just bloat your image store and perhaps make the whole thing too bothersome to worry about.
If you're going to put a lot of effort into image preservation, what's more important is to focus on preserving the contextual information that NEVER WAS capture by the camera.
Dates, locations, people, events... that contextual data will add a lot more value to future users of the data than what gets discarded during JPEG compression.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31253534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31254432</id>
	<title>Re:The question remains</title>
	<author>CharlyFoxtrot</author>
	<datestamp>1266938520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How much of it is really worth saving? Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...</p></div><p>And do we want to save everything ? We've never been as close as we are now to a society with perfect recall, we'd be nearly there now if it wasn't for copyrights. What happens to culture when things don't get to fade away and be rediscovered or reinvented in a different form, a perpetual remix culture ? Interesting times.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much of it is really worth saving ?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...And do we want to save everything ?
We 've never been as close as we are now to a society with perfect recall , we 'd be nearly there now if it was n't for copyrights .
What happens to culture when things do n't get to fade away and be rediscovered or reinvented in a different form , a perpetual remix culture ?
Interesting times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much of it is really worth saving?
Except The Goatse image and a good RickRoll video I mean...And do we want to save everything ?
We've never been as close as we are now to a society with perfect recall, we'd be nearly there now if it wasn't for copyrights.
What happens to culture when things don't get to fade away and be rediscovered or reinvented in a different form, a perpetual remix culture ?
Interesting times.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_23_2210224.31252842</parent>
</comment>
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