<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_20_233200</id>
	<title>Fingerprint Requirement For a Work-Study Job?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1266665580000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>BonesSB writes <i>"I'm a student at a university in Massachusetts, where I have a federal work-study position. Yesterday, I got an email from the office that is responsible for student run organizations (one of which I work for) saying that I need to go to their office and have my fingerprints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work. This raises huge privacy concerns for me, as it should for everybody else. I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper, getting the word out to students everywhere, and talking directly to the office regarding this. I got an email back with two very contradictory sentences: 'There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere. No one will have access to your fingerprints. The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it.' Does anybody else attend a school that requires something similar? This is an obvious slippery slope, and something I am not taking lightly. What else should I do?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>BonesSB writes " I 'm a student at a university in Massachusetts , where I have a federal work-study position .
Yesterday , I got an email from the office that is responsible for student run organizations ( one of which I work for ) saying that I need to go to their office and have my fingerprints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work .
This raises huge privacy concerns for me , as it should for everybody else .
I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper , getting the word out to students everywhere , and talking directly to the office regarding this .
I got an email back with two very contradictory sentences : 'There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere .
No one will have access to your fingerprints .
The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it .
' Does anybody else attend a school that requires something similar ?
This is an obvious slippery slope , and something I am not taking lightly .
What else should I do ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BonesSB writes "I'm a student at a university in Massachusetts, where I have a federal work-study position.
Yesterday, I got an email from the office that is responsible for student run organizations (one of which I work for) saying that I need to go to their office and have my fingerprints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.
This raises huge privacy concerns for me, as it should for everybody else.
I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper, getting the word out to students everywhere, and talking directly to the office regarding this.
I got an email back with two very contradictory sentences: 'There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere.
No one will have access to your fingerprints.
The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it.
' Does anybody else attend a school that requires something similar?
This is an obvious slippery slope, and something I am not taking lightly.
What else should I do?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214656</id>
	<title>Re:biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1266673020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I installed these at a client.
The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment, and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work.

The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner. You place your thumb on the device as you punch out. Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.</p></div><p>This fails the same way it fails in the movies: the buddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist and use your thumb to clock you out.  Joking aside, this is one of the few places where biometrics make for a good idea.  Unfortunately, thumb scanners are a bad idea.  Facial recognition during clock-in/out makes more sense, since a "fail" can be checked later by the boss.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors. Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site.</p></div><p>This fails the same way it fails in the movies: the baddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist instead of just swiping your card.  Now instead of just losing some files/equipment to the baddy, the company has also lost an employee to blood loss (or at least his thumb).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed these at a client .
The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment , and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work .
The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner .
You place your thumb on the device as you punch out .
Now buddy cant swipe out for you , and you cant defraud your employeer.This fails the same way it fails in the movies : the buddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist and use your thumb to clock you out .
Joking aside , this is one of the few places where biometrics make for a good idea .
Unfortunately , thumb scanners are a bad idea .
Facial recognition during clock-in/out makes more sense , since a " fail " can be checked later by the boss.They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors .
Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site.This fails the same way it fails in the movies : the baddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist instead of just swiping your card .
Now instead of just losing some files/equipment to the baddy , the company has also lost an employee to blood loss ( or at least his thumb ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed these at a client.
The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment, and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work.
The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner.
You place your thumb on the device as you punch out.
Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.This fails the same way it fails in the movies: the buddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist and use your thumb to clock you out.
Joking aside, this is one of the few places where biometrics make for a good idea.
Unfortunately, thumb scanners are a bad idea.
Facial recognition during clock-in/out makes more sense, since a "fail" can be checked later by the boss.They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors.
Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site.This fails the same way it fails in the movies: the baddy can cut off your thumb while you go to the dentist instead of just swiping your card.
Now instead of just losing some files/equipment to the baddy, the company has also lost an employee to blood loss (or at least his thumb).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</id>
	<title>You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its a time clock. Many jobs have them along with your address, phone number, date of birth, and social security number. Welcome to the working world. I could just as easily steal your fingerprints from your car door handle or the can you threw in the trash. After this fiasco don't expect the job offers to roll in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a time clock .
Many jobs have them along with your address , phone number , date of birth , and social security number .
Welcome to the working world .
I could just as easily steal your fingerprints from your car door handle or the can you threw in the trash .
After this fiasco do n't expect the job offers to roll in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a time clock.
Many jobs have them along with your address, phone number, date of birth, and social security number.
Welcome to the working world.
I could just as easily steal your fingerprints from your car door handle or the can you threw in the trash.
After this fiasco don't expect the job offers to roll in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215216</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>rafaelolg</author>
	<datestamp>1266678060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Although most of the Brazilians would agree with the action, the decision here in Brazil for the payback was made by politicians.
And It is no more a decision up to the politicians. There is a law in our constitution that establishes the rule of reciprocity.
At least we are also reciprocal to other countries that make severe requirements like Spain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although most of the Brazilians would agree with the action , the decision here in Brazil for the payback was made by politicians .
And It is no more a decision up to the politicians .
There is a law in our constitution that establishes the rule of reciprocity .
At least we are also reciprocal to other countries that make severe requirements like Spain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although most of the Brazilians would agree with the action, the decision here in Brazil for the payback was made by politicians.
And It is no more a decision up to the politicians.
There is a law in our constitution that establishes the rule of reciprocity.
At least we are also reciprocal to other countries that make severe requirements like Spain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215124</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>potat0man</author>
	<datestamp>1266677460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>being labeled a well-known whistle-blower isn't going to do you much justice when you're out looking for a job.</i>

<br> <br>
We need a +1 coward moderation.
<br> <br>
There are plenty of arguments about why this guy shouldn't be concerned about using his finger print to clock in and out, but being worried about being labeled as a honest man who fights for his principles isn't one of them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>being labeled a well-known whistle-blower is n't going to do you much justice when you 're out looking for a job .
We need a + 1 coward moderation .
There are plenty of arguments about why this guy should n't be concerned about using his finger print to clock in and out , but being worried about being labeled as a honest man who fights for his principles is n't one of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>being labeled a well-known whistle-blower isn't going to do you much justice when you're out looking for a job.
We need a +1 coward moderation.
There are plenty of arguments about why this guy shouldn't be concerned about using his finger print to clock in and out, but being worried about being labeled as a honest man who fights for his principles isn't one of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217692</id>
	<title>What's wrong with bioemetric data ?</title>
	<author>andr386</author>
	<datestamp>1266759540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't get it. You wouldn't object them taking a picture of you. Even though your face is unique, the length between your facial features are unique and can
help identify you as precisely as fingerprints. But when it comes to fingerprints one starts freaking out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....

They are legitimate reasons to be able to identify people. I think you are overeacting here.

The real issue of privacy lies with the databases containing that kind of data about you. Who can retrieve that informations, if it is retrieveable, and
cross-reference with other data about you. We need laws and standards, to make sure one can retains one's privacy as best as possible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't get it .
You would n't object them taking a picture of you .
Even though your face is unique , the length between your facial features are unique and can help identify you as precisely as fingerprints .
But when it comes to fingerprints one starts freaking out ... . They are legitimate reasons to be able to identify people .
I think you are overeacting here .
The real issue of privacy lies with the databases containing that kind of data about you .
Who can retrieve that informations , if it is retrieveable , and cross-reference with other data about you .
We need laws and standards , to make sure one can retains one 's privacy as best as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't get it.
You wouldn't object them taking a picture of you.
Even though your face is unique, the length between your facial features are unique and can
help identify you as precisely as fingerprints.
But when it comes to fingerprints one starts freaking out ....

They are legitimate reasons to be able to identify people.
I think you are overeacting here.
The real issue of privacy lies with the databases containing that kind of data about you.
Who can retrieve that informations, if it is retrieveable, and
cross-reference with other data about you.
We need laws and standards, to make sure one can retains one's privacy as best as possible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</id>
	<title>Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Fastolfe</author>
	<datestamp>1266669420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've used biometric scanners like this in the past.  Whatever it stores to recognize your fingerprint never leaves the machine.  I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it seems perfectly reasonable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used biometric scanners like this in the past .
Whatever it stores to recognize your fingerprint never leaves the machine .
I do n't know if that 's what 's going on here , but it seems perfectly reasonable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used biometric scanners like this in the past.
Whatever it stores to recognize your fingerprint never leaves the machine.
I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it seems perfectly reasonable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216408</id>
	<title>Re:Disney World</title>
	<author>MadCow42</author>
	<datestamp>1266690960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, and I was equally concerned with them using these at Disney World!  Thankfully they don't collect fingerprints from kids - maybe they're also concerned with the potential legal issues?</p><p>Hint - at least at Disney World you can decline.  You simply have to show picture ID.  Don't be a sheep - at least ask what your options are, how your privacy will be protected, and what THEIR liability is if there is a breach in that privacy.</p><p>MadCow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , and I was equally concerned with them using these at Disney World !
Thankfully they do n't collect fingerprints from kids - maybe they 're also concerned with the potential legal issues ? Hint - at least at Disney World you can decline .
You simply have to show picture ID .
Do n't be a sheep - at least ask what your options are , how your privacy will be protected , and what THEIR liability is if there is a breach in that privacy.MadCow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, and I was equally concerned with them using these at Disney World!
Thankfully they don't collect fingerprints from kids - maybe they're also concerned with the potential legal issues?Hint - at least at Disney World you can decline.
You simply have to show picture ID.
Don't be a sheep - at least ask what your options are, how your privacy will be protected, and what THEIR liability is if there is a breach in that privacy.MadCow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214370</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>  It's not a question of whether it's reasonable for them to do this, it's whether you should have to put up with it.
  People now have a desperate yearning to believe that things are normal and get on with their lives, so they post all sorts of reasons why this is reasonable and good.
  It doesn't sound reasonable and good to me - if nothing else it will lead to both sides being ready for the next step later.  The time hasn't come yet when this kind of thing will make your life intolerable.
  Will it lead to that?  You have to decide.
  If there's a way around this, or to screw the system so it doesn't work or the people doing it regret it, I'd use it.  I have yet to be fingerprinted, even by a totally safe system.  And anyone who reads<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. should know that there is no totally safe system, no matter how calm and reassuring that kool aid looks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not a question of whether it 's reasonable for them to do this , it 's whether you should have to put up with it .
People now have a desperate yearning to believe that things are normal and get on with their lives , so they post all sorts of reasons why this is reasonable and good .
It does n't sound reasonable and good to me - if nothing else it will lead to both sides being ready for the next step later .
The time has n't come yet when this kind of thing will make your life intolerable .
Will it lead to that ?
You have to decide .
If there 's a way around this , or to screw the system so it does n't work or the people doing it regret it , I 'd use it .
I have yet to be fingerprinted , even by a totally safe system .
And anyone who reads / .
should know that there is no totally safe system , no matter how calm and reassuring that kool aid looks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  It's not a question of whether it's reasonable for them to do this, it's whether you should have to put up with it.
People now have a desperate yearning to believe that things are normal and get on with their lives, so they post all sorts of reasons why this is reasonable and good.
It doesn't sound reasonable and good to me - if nothing else it will lead to both sides being ready for the next step later.
The time hasn't come yet when this kind of thing will make your life intolerable.
Will it lead to that?
You have to decide.
If there's a way around this, or to screw the system so it doesn't work or the people doing it regret it, I'd use it.
I have yet to be fingerprinted, even by a totally safe system.
And anyone who reads /.
should know that there is no totally safe system, no matter how calm and reassuring that kool aid looks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216510</id>
	<title>What a dumbass</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266692580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Grow the fuck up and pony up your fingerprints. Be glad you have a job, you twit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Grow the fuck up and pony up your fingerprints .
Be glad you have a job , you twit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Grow the fuck up and pony up your fingerprints.
Be glad you have a job, you twit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214498</id>
	<title>Re:For the fossils</title>
	<author>stox</author>
	<datestamp>1266671820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill.  I mean, I wanna, I<br>wanna kill.  Kill.  I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and<br>guts and veins in my teeth.  Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,<br>KILL, KILL."  And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and<br>he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down<br>yelling, "KILL, KILL."  And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,<br>sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I went up there , I said , " Shrink , I want to kill .
I mean , I wan na , Iwanna kill .
Kill. I wan na , I wan na see , I wan na see blood and gore andguts and veins in my teeth .
Eat dead burnt bodies .
I mean kill , Kill,KILL , KILL .
" And I started jumpin up and down yelling , " KILL , KILL , " andhe started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and downyelling , " KILL , KILL .
" And the sargent came over , pinned a medal on me,sent me down the hall , said , " You 're our boy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill.
I mean, I wanna, Iwanna kill.
Kill.  I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore andguts and veins in my teeth.
Eat dead burnt bodies.
I mean kill, Kill,KILL, KILL.
"  And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," andhe started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and downyelling, "KILL, KILL.
"  And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217930</id>
	<title>Fingerprint left everywhere</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266762720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give me a break.  Fingerprints are left everywhere all the time with full knowledge of every person that doesn't where gloves.  When applicable, they can and are lifted by law enforcement without need of search warrants.</p><p>In terms of use, applicant (non-criminal) fingerprints serve as a person's consent to release their criminal history record information, or lack of one.  Signature alone is not sufficient.  Sure, name-based searches can and are used, but fingerprints confirm the person's identity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give me a break .
Fingerprints are left everywhere all the time with full knowledge of every person that does n't where gloves .
When applicable , they can and are lifted by law enforcement without need of search warrants.In terms of use , applicant ( non-criminal ) fingerprints serve as a person 's consent to release their criminal history record information , or lack of one .
Signature alone is not sufficient .
Sure , name-based searches can and are used , but fingerprints confirm the person 's identity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give me a break.
Fingerprints are left everywhere all the time with full knowledge of every person that doesn't where gloves.
When applicable, they can and are lifted by law enforcement without need of search warrants.In terms of use, applicant (non-criminal) fingerprints serve as a person's consent to release their criminal history record information, or lack of one.
Signature alone is not sufficient.
Sure, name-based searches can and are used, but fingerprints confirm the person's identity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216336</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266689880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm.. I had a boss that I wouldn't have minded giving some semen samples once...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm.. I had a boss that I would n't have minded giving some semen samples once.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm.. I had a boss that I wouldn't have minded giving some semen samples once...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215638</id>
	<title>Re:As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1266682560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow. You win the prize for the most self-contradictory paragraph I have seen this month.<p><div class="quote"><p>As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... even though they are obviously easily defeated<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>
Just as obviously, neither your rights OR your time clock is protected if the system is "obviously easily defeated". And they are, of course.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
You win the prize for the most self-contradictory paragraph I have seen this month.As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue .
... even though they are obviously easily defeated .. . Just as obviously , neither your rights OR your time clock is protected if the system is " obviously easily defeated " .
And they are , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
You win the prize for the most self-contradictory paragraph I have seen this month.As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue.
... even though they are obviously easily defeated ...
Just as obviously, neither your rights OR your time clock is protected if the system is "obviously easily defeated".
And they are, of course.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214244</id>
	<title>Oh no!</title>
	<author>ChinggisK</author>
	<datestamp>1266670080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bet there was a <i>handle</i> on the door to their office too, wasn't there?  Now your fingerprints are all over the door handle too!  <i>It's a conspiracy!</i> <br> <br>
Seriously though, of course privacy is a huge issue these days, but worrying about your school stealing your fingerprints?  You're a little extra special paranoid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet there was a handle on the door to their office too , was n't there ?
Now your fingerprints are all over the door handle too !
It 's a conspiracy !
Seriously though , of course privacy is a huge issue these days , but worrying about your school stealing your fingerprints ?
You 're a little extra special paranoid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet there was a handle on the door to their office too, wasn't there?
Now your fingerprints are all over the door handle too!
It's a conspiracy!
Seriously though, of course privacy is a huge issue these days, but worrying about your school stealing your fingerprints?
You're a little extra special paranoid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214230</id>
	<title>Biometrics...</title>
	<author>TheQuantumShift</author>
	<datestamp>1266669960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Way of the future. Seems like a trap, but probably isn't. Your actual prints are not stored anywhere. There's no image they send off to the CSI guys to zoom and enhance. When you register a finger, the software scans an image (a very bad one) and translates it into an alphanumeric string which is stored in a database and associated with your user account. That's why it doesn't work as good as it seems like it should. Roll your finger on the sensor a little to the left and the string generated by the sensor is off by a character. No paycheck for you. Of course if they hand you an inkpad and a 3x5 card, you might want to question it more...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Way of the future .
Seems like a trap , but probably is n't .
Your actual prints are not stored anywhere .
There 's no image they send off to the CSI guys to zoom and enhance .
When you register a finger , the software scans an image ( a very bad one ) and translates it into an alphanumeric string which is stored in a database and associated with your user account .
That 's why it does n't work as good as it seems like it should .
Roll your finger on the sensor a little to the left and the string generated by the sensor is off by a character .
No paycheck for you .
Of course if they hand you an inkpad and a 3x5 card , you might want to question it more.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Way of the future.
Seems like a trap, but probably isn't.
Your actual prints are not stored anywhere.
There's no image they send off to the CSI guys to zoom and enhance.
When you register a finger, the software scans an image (a very bad one) and translates it into an alphanumeric string which is stored in a database and associated with your user account.
That's why it doesn't work as good as it seems like it should.
Roll your finger on the sensor a little to the left and the string generated by the sensor is off by a character.
No paycheck for you.
Of course if they hand you an inkpad and a 3x5 card, you might want to question it more...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217392</id>
	<title>PRivacy concerns?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266752820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What privacy concerns? All a fingerprint says is that you are you.<br>It won't tell them your sexual proclivities. Or if does then that is your fault.<br>It won't tell them your medical history, if does that is your health care providers fault.<br>etc...<br>Fact is that if you apply for a job where a background check is required, then you will most likely have to provide your finger prints.<br>From what I understand and my experience, most bonding companies require fingerprints too, if not all of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What privacy concerns ?
All a fingerprint says is that you are you.It wo n't tell them your sexual proclivities .
Or if does then that is your fault.It wo n't tell them your medical history , if does that is your health care providers fault.etc...Fact is that if you apply for a job where a background check is required , then you will most likely have to provide your finger prints.From what I understand and my experience , most bonding companies require fingerprints too , if not all of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What privacy concerns?
All a fingerprint says is that you are you.It won't tell them your sexual proclivities.
Or if does then that is your fault.It won't tell them your medical history, if does that is your health care providers fault.etc...Fact is that if you apply for a job where a background check is required, then you will most likely have to provide your finger prints.From what I understand and my experience, most bonding companies require fingerprints too, if not all of them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216244</id>
	<title>People are so paranoid</title>
	<author>itwasgreektome</author>
	<datestamp>1266689220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People are so paranoid nowadays.  Let's say everytime they fingerprinted you, they retained a copy, and submitted them to the Dept. of Justice to do a criminal check.  The only people that would have anything to worry about are criminals.

All they are doing is logging you, same as using a user name and password.  Just quicker.  And less foolable.

Boohoo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>People are so paranoid nowadays .
Let 's say everytime they fingerprinted you , they retained a copy , and submitted them to the Dept .
of Justice to do a criminal check .
The only people that would have anything to worry about are criminals .
All they are doing is logging you , same as using a user name and password .
Just quicker .
And less foolable .
Boohoo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are so paranoid nowadays.
Let's say everytime they fingerprinted you, they retained a copy, and submitted them to the Dept.
of Justice to do a criminal check.
The only people that would have anything to worry about are criminals.
All they are doing is logging you, same as using a user name and password.
Just quicker.
And less foolable.
Boohoo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215724</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266683640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.  This is not a solution.  If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.  If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.</p></div><p>Get a grip. They aren't asking for the fingerprints (which they COULD if they wanted) they are asking the guy to show up and run his finger over a biometric scanner. As was already pointed out, they don't even take an image of your print, and as already pointed out they already know a hell of a lot about you including your SS# and more, and as already pointed out if they wanted your print they could get it from a thousand things you touch each day.</p><p>It sounds like the document was simply prepped by someone who either didn't understand, or didn't realize how many people don the tinfoil before getting out of bed.</p><p>But go ahead and raise a stink if you must, if you're persistent you can probably get them to change the paperwork to say "biometric identification" instead of "fingerprint", and if you push REALLY hard they might actually consult with a professor and change it to read that they need a "numerical hash" of your "biometric information".</p><p>There's plenty things out there to be paranoid of, this isn't one of them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer .
This is not a solution .
If we do n't fight it and win , it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight .
If we think this is a bad idea , it needs to be fought now while it 's still in its infancy.Get a grip .
They are n't asking for the fingerprints ( which they COULD if they wanted ) they are asking the guy to show up and run his finger over a biometric scanner .
As was already pointed out , they do n't even take an image of your print , and as already pointed out they already know a hell of a lot about you including your SS # and more , and as already pointed out if they wanted your print they could get it from a thousand things you touch each day.It sounds like the document was simply prepped by someone who either did n't understand , or did n't realize how many people don the tinfoil before getting out of bed.But go ahead and raise a stink if you must , if you 're persistent you can probably get them to change the paperwork to say " biometric identification " instead of " fingerprint " , and if you push REALLY hard they might actually consult with a professor and change it to read that they need a " numerical hash " of your " biometric information " .There 's plenty things out there to be paranoid of , this is n't one of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.
This is not a solution.
If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.
If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.Get a grip.
They aren't asking for the fingerprints (which they COULD if they wanted) they are asking the guy to show up and run his finger over a biometric scanner.
As was already pointed out, they don't even take an image of your print, and as already pointed out they already know a hell of a lot about you including your SS# and more, and as already pointed out if they wanted your print they could get it from a thousand things you touch each day.It sounds like the document was simply prepped by someone who either didn't understand, or didn't realize how many people don the tinfoil before getting out of bed.But go ahead and raise a stink if you must, if you're persistent you can probably get them to change the paperwork to say "biometric identification" instead of "fingerprint", and if you push REALLY hard they might actually consult with a professor and change it to read that they need a "numerical hash" of your "biometric information".There's plenty things out there to be paranoid of, this isn't one of them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214932</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266675840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is because americans do the same when foreign people visit USA, So brazilians got tired of that discrimination and in response gives the same treatmen that americans give to brazillians. Argentina took a different aproach, now Argentina charges a fee, for all the visitors whose country charges argentineans. Usa claims a 123 usd fee in order to request a visa, (that can be denied with no reason nor refound) so argentina charges americans a 123 usd fee. Think that as a way to make citizens of other countries how they threat to foreigns.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is because americans do the same when foreign people visit USA , So brazilians got tired of that discrimination and in response gives the same treatmen that americans give to brazillians .
Argentina took a different aproach , now Argentina charges a fee , for all the visitors whose country charges argentineans .
Usa claims a 123 usd fee in order to request a visa , ( that can be denied with no reason nor refound ) so argentina charges americans a 123 usd fee .
Think that as a way to make citizens of other countries how they threat to foreigns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is because americans do the same when foreign people visit USA, So brazilians got tired of that discrimination and in response gives the same treatmen that americans give to brazillians.
Argentina took a different aproach, now Argentina charges a fee, for all the visitors whose country charges argentineans.
Usa claims a 123 usd fee in order to request a visa, (that can be denied with no reason nor refound) so argentina charges americans a 123 usd fee.
Think that as a way to make citizens of other countries how they threat to foreigns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217654</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266758820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>My point being that we (US) treat others like crap for NO reason, we get shafted back.  I'm currently getting my 4th work visa in my 3rd country, and I really do think it ends up being a detriment to come from the US.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My point being that we ( US ) treat others like crap for NO reason , we get shafted back .
I 'm currently getting my 4th work visa in my 3rd country , and I really do think it ends up being a detriment to come from the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My point being that we (US) treat others like crap for NO reason, we get shafted back.
I'm currently getting my 4th work visa in my 3rd country, and I really do think it ends up being a detriment to come from the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216188</id>
	<title>Proper solution to this.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266688680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The proper solution to this sort of problem is to have a fingerprint scanner in the punch-in system, but make sure that the fingerprint is not stored there and certify the machine that way. Then, every employee gets a smartcard with their biometric data stored on it in encrypted form. The key to unlock the fingerprint is in the time punch device and is sent to the smart card to be used temporarily when the device needs to check the fingerprint. The smartcard does not send the fingerprint data to the time punch device, the time punch device sends its scan to the smartcard and the smartcard sends back a confirmation or denial that it's the same fingerprint along with a hash of the fingerprint data that can't be used to recreate the stored fingerprint data, but does verify that the fingerprint data on the card has not been changed. So, the employee carries a card with nothing but encoded garbage on it if someone steals it, the time punch device doesn't store the fingerprint. If they forget the smartcard, they just punch in a code and the time punch device snaps their picture and a supervisor can spend 10 seconds checking it later, and employees who forget their card too often get a reprimand or something. Alternatively, the scanner could be on the smartcard instead, but that would make the smartcards too expensive (of course, most vendors of systems like this will probably charge 50 times what the cards cost them anyway). There are a number of potential holes in this if used as an access system, but for a time punch system, it should be fine. Now, of course, the machine could secretly record the fingerprint data anyway, but we're assuming a world where the company you work for isn't in a sinister plot to accumulate peoples fingerprints, just our normal everyday world where someday the company behind the time punch system may co-operate in some police investigation and the police will take the opportunity to dump their entire fingerprint database into their own databases. Presumably if they guarantee that they're not collecting the info and actually have a system in place to enforce their guarantee, if it turns out that they're lying, they can be sued into oblivion and maybe face criminal charges (the second is not very likely for 'co-operating' with police, even if what they did was totally illegal, as we've seen) for obvious active malice rather than being able to get away with claiming it was just an accident.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The proper solution to this sort of problem is to have a fingerprint scanner in the punch-in system , but make sure that the fingerprint is not stored there and certify the machine that way .
Then , every employee gets a smartcard with their biometric data stored on it in encrypted form .
The key to unlock the fingerprint is in the time punch device and is sent to the smart card to be used temporarily when the device needs to check the fingerprint .
The smartcard does not send the fingerprint data to the time punch device , the time punch device sends its scan to the smartcard and the smartcard sends back a confirmation or denial that it 's the same fingerprint along with a hash of the fingerprint data that ca n't be used to recreate the stored fingerprint data , but does verify that the fingerprint data on the card has not been changed .
So , the employee carries a card with nothing but encoded garbage on it if someone steals it , the time punch device does n't store the fingerprint .
If they forget the smartcard , they just punch in a code and the time punch device snaps their picture and a supervisor can spend 10 seconds checking it later , and employees who forget their card too often get a reprimand or something .
Alternatively , the scanner could be on the smartcard instead , but that would make the smartcards too expensive ( of course , most vendors of systems like this will probably charge 50 times what the cards cost them anyway ) .
There are a number of potential holes in this if used as an access system , but for a time punch system , it should be fine .
Now , of course , the machine could secretly record the fingerprint data anyway , but we 're assuming a world where the company you work for is n't in a sinister plot to accumulate peoples fingerprints , just our normal everyday world where someday the company behind the time punch system may co-operate in some police investigation and the police will take the opportunity to dump their entire fingerprint database into their own databases .
Presumably if they guarantee that they 're not collecting the info and actually have a system in place to enforce their guarantee , if it turns out that they 're lying , they can be sued into oblivion and maybe face criminal charges ( the second is not very likely for 'co-operating ' with police , even if what they did was totally illegal , as we 've seen ) for obvious active malice rather than being able to get away with claiming it was just an accident .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proper solution to this sort of problem is to have a fingerprint scanner in the punch-in system, but make sure that the fingerprint is not stored there and certify the machine that way.
Then, every employee gets a smartcard with their biometric data stored on it in encrypted form.
The key to unlock the fingerprint is in the time punch device and is sent to the smart card to be used temporarily when the device needs to check the fingerprint.
The smartcard does not send the fingerprint data to the time punch device, the time punch device sends its scan to the smartcard and the smartcard sends back a confirmation or denial that it's the same fingerprint along with a hash of the fingerprint data that can't be used to recreate the stored fingerprint data, but does verify that the fingerprint data on the card has not been changed.
So, the employee carries a card with nothing but encoded garbage on it if someone steals it, the time punch device doesn't store the fingerprint.
If they forget the smartcard, they just punch in a code and the time punch device snaps their picture and a supervisor can spend 10 seconds checking it later, and employees who forget their card too often get a reprimand or something.
Alternatively, the scanner could be on the smartcard instead, but that would make the smartcards too expensive (of course, most vendors of systems like this will probably charge 50 times what the cards cost them anyway).
There are a number of potential holes in this if used as an access system, but for a time punch system, it should be fine.
Now, of course, the machine could secretly record the fingerprint data anyway, but we're assuming a world where the company you work for isn't in a sinister plot to accumulate peoples fingerprints, just our normal everyday world where someday the company behind the time punch system may co-operate in some police investigation and the police will take the opportunity to dump their entire fingerprint database into their own databases.
Presumably if they guarantee that they're not collecting the info and actually have a system in place to enforce their guarantee, if it turns out that they're lying, they can be sued into oblivion and maybe face criminal charges (the second is not very likely for 'co-operating' with police, even if what they did was totally illegal, as we've seen) for obvious active malice rather than being able to get away with claiming it was just an accident.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218144</id>
	<title>Take off your damned tinfoil hat...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266764700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sheesh.</p><p>Tho I'm of the mind that they should take fingerprints of anyone requesting any sort of license (drivers, marriage, heavy equipment, medical, etc, etc)....heck, I'd be OK with samples of blood taken at birth for DNA databases.</p><p>Allow law enforcement ot only use that stuff for comparison of crimes...will go a long way to catching folks faster.</p><p>And, if I were the employer, and you went crying to the local newspaper because I wanted your fingerprints for biometrics, and you were all whiney and crap like you are now, I'd rescind the officer and publicly acknowledge that you're a boat rocker in hopes no one else would bring you on as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sheesh.Tho I 'm of the mind that they should take fingerprints of anyone requesting any sort of license ( drivers , marriage , heavy equipment , medical , etc , etc ) ....heck , I 'd be OK with samples of blood taken at birth for DNA databases.Allow law enforcement ot only use that stuff for comparison of crimes...will go a long way to catching folks faster.And , if I were the employer , and you went crying to the local newspaper because I wanted your fingerprints for biometrics , and you were all whiney and crap like you are now , I 'd rescind the officer and publicly acknowledge that you 're a boat rocker in hopes no one else would bring you on as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sheesh.Tho I'm of the mind that they should take fingerprints of anyone requesting any sort of license (drivers, marriage, heavy equipment, medical, etc, etc)....heck, I'd be OK with samples of blood taken at birth for DNA databases.Allow law enforcement ot only use that stuff for comparison of crimes...will go a long way to catching folks faster.And, if I were the employer, and you went crying to the local newspaper because I wanted your fingerprints for biometrics, and you were all whiney and crap like you are now, I'd rescind the officer and publicly acknowledge that you're a boat rocker in hopes no one else would bring you on as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216254</id>
	<title>Your behavior makes no sense.</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1266689340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you contact a local news or student organization, do you think your potential employer will be happy? You've already decided you don't want this job by doing that. If you don't want the job, then what's the problem? Walk away. Nobody is making you do it. Making a big scene is childish.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you contact a local news or student organization , do you think your potential employer will be happy ?
You 've already decided you do n't want this job by doing that .
If you do n't want the job , then what 's the problem ?
Walk away .
Nobody is making you do it .
Making a big scene is childish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you contact a local news or student organization, do you think your potential employer will be happy?
You've already decided you don't want this job by doing that.
If you don't want the job, then what's the problem?
Walk away.
Nobody is making you do it.
Making a big scene is childish.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216870</id>
	<title>Get over it.</title>
	<author>Domini</author>
	<datestamp>1266784560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sheesh... this is the same as having public and private encryption keys. The private one is for you, the public one is... you guessed it, public, and cannot be used to reproduce or fake the private one. They only store enough data to verify your fingerprint again. VERIFICATION and IDENTIFICATION are two very different things. No privacy issue.</p><p>Move along, nothing to see here...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sheesh... this is the same as having public and private encryption keys .
The private one is for you , the public one is... you guessed it , public , and can not be used to reproduce or fake the private one .
They only store enough data to verify your fingerprint again .
VERIFICATION and IDENTIFICATION are two very different things .
No privacy issue.Move along , nothing to see here.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sheesh... this is the same as having public and private encryption keys.
The private one is for you, the public one is... you guessed it, public, and cannot be used to reproduce or fake the private one.
They only store enough data to verify your fingerprint again.
VERIFICATION and IDENTIFICATION are two very different things.
No privacy issue.Move along, nothing to see here...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214340</id>
	<title>No black helicopter over head = swipe your finger!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, this is jumping the gun a little. Now, I am doing some side work for a company that requires me to submit to a polygraph on request, and I had to have a full set of ID photos and turn in two fingerprint cards to be able to do this job ONE DAY A WEEK. You are being asked to sign in to a computer/time clock using the numerical value of the sum of the points of your finger. It is not like they asked you to provide them with copies of your fingerprints to keep on file to make sure you didn't touch your bosses prized [insert whatever the boss prizes]. Take a step back - there is no reason to become this upset over something so simple. I had to have my fingerprint scanned in when I &gt;WENT to school, because it was used for accessing the chemical cabinet in the bio-lab. Wow... what a rant... maybe I should have just summed it up with call Johnny Cochran...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , this is jumping the gun a little .
Now , I am doing some side work for a company that requires me to submit to a polygraph on request , and I had to have a full set of ID photos and turn in two fingerprint cards to be able to do this job ONE DAY A WEEK .
You are being asked to sign in to a computer/time clock using the numerical value of the sum of the points of your finger .
It is not like they asked you to provide them with copies of your fingerprints to keep on file to make sure you did n't touch your bosses prized [ insert whatever the boss prizes ] .
Take a step back - there is no reason to become this upset over something so simple .
I had to have my fingerprint scanned in when I &gt; WENT to school , because it was used for accessing the chemical cabinet in the bio-lab .
Wow... what a rant... maybe I should have just summed it up with call Johnny Cochran.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, this is jumping the gun a little.
Now, I am doing some side work for a company that requires me to submit to a polygraph on request, and I had to have a full set of ID photos and turn in two fingerprint cards to be able to do this job ONE DAY A WEEK.
You are being asked to sign in to a computer/time clock using the numerical value of the sum of the points of your finger.
It is not like they asked you to provide them with copies of your fingerprints to keep on file to make sure you didn't touch your bosses prized [insert whatever the boss prizes].
Take a step back - there is no reason to become this upset over something so simple.
I had to have my fingerprint scanned in when I &gt;WENT to school, because it was used for accessing the chemical cabinet in the bio-lab.
Wow... what a rant... maybe I should have just summed it up with call Johnny Cochran...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214638</id>
	<title>Shocked</title>
	<author>spire3661</author>
	<datestamp>1266672840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>at the wide acceptance of this on Slashdot. There is NO NEED for biometric passkeys. For all those parroting ' it only stores a hash' , is it really that far out of the realm of reality to think that at some point they can flip a software switch and you have fingerprint pictures?</htmltext>
<tokenext>at the wide acceptance of this on Slashdot .
There is NO NEED for biometric passkeys .
For all those parroting ' it only stores a hash ' , is it really that far out of the realm of reality to think that at some point they can flip a software switch and you have fingerprint pictures ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at the wide acceptance of this on Slashdot.
There is NO NEED for biometric passkeys.
For all those parroting ' it only stores a hash' , is it really that far out of the realm of reality to think that at some point they can flip a software switch and you have fingerprint pictures?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214378</id>
	<title>No big deal</title>
	<author>venkateshkumar99</author>
	<datestamp>1266670980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work on campus at my university at the food court.

We too require to scan our finger (right thumb) whenever we punch-in and punch-out. I guess this is a reasonable arrangement to thwart proxy punch-ins.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work on campus at my university at the food court .
We too require to scan our finger ( right thumb ) whenever we punch-in and punch-out .
I guess this is a reasonable arrangement to thwart proxy punch-ins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work on campus at my university at the food court.
We too require to scan our finger (right thumb) whenever we punch-in and punch-out.
I guess this is a reasonable arrangement to thwart proxy punch-ins.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216160</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>jeff4747</author>
	<datestamp>1266688260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How the heck did that get modded Insightful?</p><p>It's a fucking time clock.  Not a sinister plan to steal your identity.  It hashes one of your fingerprints and compares the hash to the one on file.</p><p>The SSN, photo ID, home address, telephone number, bank account number, family member names/addresses/phone numbers you already gave the employer would work much better for identity theft than the one-way hash of one of your fingerprints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How the heck did that get modded Insightful ? It 's a fucking time clock .
Not a sinister plan to steal your identity .
It hashes one of your fingerprints and compares the hash to the one on file.The SSN , photo ID , home address , telephone number , bank account number , family member names/addresses/phone numbers you already gave the employer would work much better for identity theft than the one-way hash of one of your fingerprints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the heck did that get modded Insightful?It's a fucking time clock.
Not a sinister plan to steal your identity.
It hashes one of your fingerprints and compares the hash to the one on file.The SSN, photo ID, home address, telephone number, bank account number, family member names/addresses/phone numbers you already gave the employer would work much better for identity theft than the one-way hash of one of your fingerprints.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215436</id>
	<title>A "slippery slope"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266680100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You read too much Slashdot. Just finish your fucking degree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You read too much Slashdot .
Just finish your fucking degree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You read too much Slashdot.
Just finish your fucking degree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214364</id>
	<title>Middle schools in England...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... require kids to give their fingerprints for lunch. Because a card or money is "too hard". Shyeah right. But this is modern times, so no complaints please. Oh, and the relevant privacy protection agency said the parents had no say in whether schools fingerprinted their kids, because this was ``something between the school and the pupil''. Who is the legal guardian of those pupils again?</p><p>Also, many, many countries now require people to submit fingerprints for the "biometric" part of the RFID passports. And maintain central databases of all citizens' fingerprints obtained that way, naturally. Did I mention that in most such countries all citizens already had to have an ID card or passport anyway? This goes way deeper than some stupid agency deploying a fingerprint reader to clock in and out of work. Biometrics are becoming endemic. Live with it, or bitch to your senators. Best start now, if it isn't already too late.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... require kids to give their fingerprints for lunch .
Because a card or money is " too hard " .
Shyeah right .
But this is modern times , so no complaints please .
Oh , and the relevant privacy protection agency said the parents had no say in whether schools fingerprinted their kids , because this was ` ` something between the school and the pupil'' .
Who is the legal guardian of those pupils again ? Also , many , many countries now require people to submit fingerprints for the " biometric " part of the RFID passports .
And maintain central databases of all citizens ' fingerprints obtained that way , naturally .
Did I mention that in most such countries all citizens already had to have an ID card or passport anyway ?
This goes way deeper than some stupid agency deploying a fingerprint reader to clock in and out of work .
Biometrics are becoming endemic .
Live with it , or bitch to your senators .
Best start now , if it is n't already too late .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... require kids to give their fingerprints for lunch.
Because a card or money is "too hard".
Shyeah right.
But this is modern times, so no complaints please.
Oh, and the relevant privacy protection agency said the parents had no say in whether schools fingerprinted their kids, because this was ``something between the school and the pupil''.
Who is the legal guardian of those pupils again?Also, many, many countries now require people to submit fingerprints for the "biometric" part of the RFID passports.
And maintain central databases of all citizens' fingerprints obtained that way, naturally.
Did I mention that in most such countries all citizens already had to have an ID card or passport anyway?
This goes way deeper than some stupid agency deploying a fingerprint reader to clock in and out of work.
Biometrics are becoming endemic.
Live with it, or bitch to your senators.
Best start now, if it isn't already too late.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31219200</id>
	<title>Ugh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266774720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Biometric access control is not an invasion of privacy.  Even if they also ran your prints through the FBI to check for a criminal record, that still wouldn't be an invasion of privacy.  Criminal records are not technically private, nor are court records for anyone over the age of 18 (in the US).  They aren't putting cameras in your house, recording your home telephone conversations, or reading your private e-mail account.  They aren't bugging your car, or forcing you to let them read mail sent to your house.

Personally, I'd rather use a fingerprint instead of having to carry keys or access cards.  Sure, someone could chop off your finger, but for the case of businesses or federal offices, you will still have some form of picture ID that you have to wear at all times, so it isn't as simple as just taking someone's thumb and voila, you have access.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Biometric access control is not an invasion of privacy .
Even if they also ran your prints through the FBI to check for a criminal record , that still would n't be an invasion of privacy .
Criminal records are not technically private , nor are court records for anyone over the age of 18 ( in the US ) .
They are n't putting cameras in your house , recording your home telephone conversations , or reading your private e-mail account .
They are n't bugging your car , or forcing you to let them read mail sent to your house .
Personally , I 'd rather use a fingerprint instead of having to carry keys or access cards .
Sure , someone could chop off your finger , but for the case of businesses or federal offices , you will still have some form of picture ID that you have to wear at all times , so it is n't as simple as just taking someone 's thumb and voila , you have access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biometric access control is not an invasion of privacy.
Even if they also ran your prints through the FBI to check for a criminal record, that still wouldn't be an invasion of privacy.
Criminal records are not technically private, nor are court records for anyone over the age of 18 (in the US).
They aren't putting cameras in your house, recording your home telephone conversations, or reading your private e-mail account.
They aren't bugging your car, or forcing you to let them read mail sent to your house.
Personally, I'd rather use a fingerprint instead of having to carry keys or access cards.
Sure, someone could chop off your finger, but for the case of businesses or federal offices, you will still have some form of picture ID that you have to wear at all times, so it isn't as simple as just taking someone's thumb and voila, you have access.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216218</id>
	<title>Its Only About Getting Sex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266688980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Admins, local, state and Federal, only care about getting the victum, uhh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... enrollee, to consent to sexual intercorse as a means of "payment."</p><p>If they can't get sex, they will take money.</p><p>If they can't get money, then they will cock-up some BS about National Security and that they are the real "Jack."</p><p>In all, it is just a scam.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Admins , local , state and Federal , only care about getting the victum , uhh ... enrollee , to consent to sexual intercorse as a means of " payment .
" If they ca n't get sex , they will take money.If they ca n't get money , then they will cock-up some BS about National Security and that they are the real " Jack .
" In all , it is just a scam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Admins, local, state and Federal, only care about getting the victum, uhh ... enrollee, to consent to sexual intercorse as a means of "payment.
"If they can't get sex, they will take money.If they can't get money, then they will cock-up some BS about National Security and that they are the real "Jack.
"In all, it is just a scam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</id>
	<title>It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>gerf</author>
	<datestamp>1266670200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently if you visit Brazil, Europeans and Brazilians go through one line.  Americans, we can all step over <i>here</i> to get fingerprinted, retina scanned, etc.
</p><p>Why?  We do it to them, so they do it back.  F.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently if you visit Brazil , Europeans and Brazilians go through one line .
Americans , we can all step over here to get fingerprinted , retina scanned , etc .
Why ? We do it to them , so they do it back .
F .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently if you visit Brazil, Europeans and Brazilians go through one line.
Americans, we can all step over here to get fingerprinted, retina scanned, etc.
Why?  We do it to them, so they do it back.
F.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</id>
	<title>Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>...when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA. Until then, there's nothing to be upset about.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA .
Until then , there 's nothing to be upset about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA.
Until then, there's nothing to be upset about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</id>
	<title>biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I installed these at a client.<br>The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment, and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work.</p><p>The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner. You place your thumb on the device as you punch out. Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.</p><p>They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors. Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed these at a client.The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment , and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work.The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner .
You place your thumb on the device as you punch out .
Now buddy cant swipe out for you , and you cant defraud your employeer.They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors .
Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed these at a client.The issue was the employees would take an afternoon off to go to an appointment, and get buddy to clock them out at the end of the day - The emplyoee would then get paid for an afternoon they didnt work.The time clocks have a fingerprint scanner.
You place your thumb on the device as you punch out.
Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.They also had biometric locks instead of prox cards on the doors.
Much more convieient then having to remember a card the few days when i was on site.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215662</id>
	<title>an issue regardless of "privacy"</title>
	<author>JimBobJoe</author>
	<datestamp>1266682920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The crux of concern may be called "privacy" but isn't necessarily privacy. I don't think that he is necessarily concerned with how much of the fingerprint is retained or if it can be released, blah blah blah.</p><p>The issue here is one of human dignity. He feels (as do many others) that fingerprinting is a violation of his sense of human dignity. That somehow using your fingerprint in this type of operation makes him feel less human, less respected, more like a criminal, what have you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The crux of concern may be called " privacy " but is n't necessarily privacy .
I do n't think that he is necessarily concerned with how much of the fingerprint is retained or if it can be released , blah blah blah.The issue here is one of human dignity .
He feels ( as do many others ) that fingerprinting is a violation of his sense of human dignity .
That somehow using your fingerprint in this type of operation makes him feel less human , less respected , more like a criminal , what have you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crux of concern may be called "privacy" but isn't necessarily privacy.
I don't think that he is necessarily concerned with how much of the fingerprint is retained or if it can be released, blah blah blah.The issue here is one of human dignity.
He feels (as do many others) that fingerprinting is a violation of his sense of human dignity.
That somehow using your fingerprint in this type of operation makes him feel less human, less respected, more like a criminal, what have you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215606</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>zach\_the\_lizard</author>
	<datestamp>1266682320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away?  Or is it that, after all, they are not so averse to all that theater?</p></div><p>How many major candidates at any level have campaigned to end security theater? Very few. Many of them latch on to it, because an imagined crisis helps them get votes. "Vote for me or those evil people will bomb us!" That line, in so many forms, has resulted in unimaginable evils becoming common and everyday occurrences.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away ?
Or is it that , after all , they are not so averse to all that theater ? How many major candidates at any level have campaigned to end security theater ?
Very few .
Many of them latch on to it , because an imagined crisis helps them get votes .
" Vote for me or those evil people will bomb us !
" That line , in so many forms , has resulted in unimaginable evils becoming common and everyday occurrences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away?
Or is it that, after all, they are not so averse to all that theater?How many major candidates at any level have campaigned to end security theater?
Very few.
Many of them latch on to it, because an imagined crisis helps them get votes.
"Vote for me or those evil people will bomb us!
" That line, in so many forms, has resulted in unimaginable evils becoming common and everyday occurrences.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216270</id>
	<title>Re:Contradictory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266689400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to laugh every time I read something like this. People complain about privacy all the time but walk around with a transmitter in their pocket 7x24 that will instantly give out your location to anyone with the right equipment. Ya I am talking about your cell phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to laugh every time I read something like this .
People complain about privacy all the time but walk around with a transmitter in their pocket 7x24 that will instantly give out your location to anyone with the right equipment .
Ya I am talking about your cell phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to laugh every time I read something like this.
People complain about privacy all the time but walk around with a transmitter in their pocket 7x24 that will instantly give out your location to anyone with the right equipment.
Ya I am talking about your cell phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215686</id>
	<title>Re:Pick your battles. Settle for knowing...</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1266683280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You can't change the world through indignation. You really have only three choices. First, be docile and do nothing at all. That's often a good option by the way. Second, make sure your concerns have been heard, even if they are dismissed. Or, third, be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing."</p><p>Well, four choices, if one includes the Joe Stack Option.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You ca n't change the world through indignation .
You really have only three choices .
First , be docile and do nothing at all .
That 's often a good option by the way .
Second , make sure your concerns have been heard , even if they are dismissed .
Or , third , be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing .
" Well , four choices , if one includes the Joe Stack Option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You can't change the world through indignation.
You really have only three choices.
First, be docile and do nothing at all.
That's often a good option by the way.
Second, make sure your concerns have been heard, even if they are dismissed.
Or, third, be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing.
"Well, four choices, if one includes the Joe Stack Option.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31222792</id>
	<title>Re:Disney World</title>
	<author>mackthespoon</author>
	<datestamp>1266752220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fingerprints are not required (as is confirmed on their website). When my son and I went there last summer we simply had to check in with the customer service the first day we arrived and then inform the gate attendants that we opted out of the fingerprinting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fingerprints are not required ( as is confirmed on their website ) .
When my son and I went there last summer we simply had to check in with the customer service the first day we arrived and then inform the gate attendants that we opted out of the fingerprinting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fingerprints are not required (as is confirmed on their website).
When my son and I went there last summer we simply had to check in with the customer service the first day we arrived and then inform the gate attendants that we opted out of the fingerprinting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31221652</id>
	<title>Re:As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>ameoba</author>
	<datestamp>1266745200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're talking about part-time work-study jobs for college students - don't you think that biometric timeclocks are a little overkill?  There's maybe a dozen employees, all part-time, performing menial clerical jobs, making nearly minimum wage, with 80\% of their wages getting subsidized through their financial aid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're talking about part-time work-study jobs for college students - do n't you think that biometric timeclocks are a little overkill ?
There 's maybe a dozen employees , all part-time , performing menial clerical jobs , making nearly minimum wage , with 80 \ % of their wages getting subsidized through their financial aid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're talking about part-time work-study jobs for college students - don't you think that biometric timeclocks are a little overkill?
There's maybe a dozen employees, all part-time, performing menial clerical jobs, making nearly minimum wage, with 80\% of their wages getting subsidized through their financial aid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214280</id>
	<title>I sign in</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I sign in with a sensor at the end of a foot long hole that only my huge wang can reach in and push.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sign in with a sensor at the end of a foot long hole that only my huge wang can reach in and push .
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sign in with a sensor at the end of a foot long hole that only my huge wang can reach in and push.
:D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214970</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266676080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If only we could do the same type things in other ways to people from other countries. I'd love to put up "no foriegner" signs in a few places like in Japan for example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If only we could do the same type things in other ways to people from other countries .
I 'd love to put up " no foriegner " signs in a few places like in Japan for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only we could do the same type things in other ways to people from other countries.
I'd love to put up "no foriegner" signs in a few places like in Japan for example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215388</id>
	<title>It would be illegal in many EU coutries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266679560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know this will surprise many slashdot readers but using your fingerprint as described by the poster for the purpose of clocking you in and out of work would be illegal in many countries accross Europe (with the possible exception of the UK). In France, for example, you can actually get fined by the data protection authority for doing so.</p><p>It's true that most of these devices don't store an image of your fingerprint but rather a "template" : a description of some special features of your fingerprint. But that doesn't change the problem.</p><p>Indeed, many data proctection authorities accross the EU consider that biometrics pose sevreall security and data protection issues and must therefore be used with caution. Fingerprint biometrics are of special concern, in particular when the biometric data (templates) are stored in a central database. The big problem with fingerprints is that we leave them everywhere, on all objects we touch. Someone can pick up your fingerprint and test it against the templates inside the database. (Sounds crazy or technically impossible ? It's much easier than you think : i've tested it myself, that's part of my job). There are other issues whith fingerprint biometrics that I won't detail here.</p><p>In the end data protection authorities in the EU consider that the use of a central fingerprint database is excessive if your only objective is only clocking people in and out. Instead, they encourage the use of a smartcard to store the biometric data : you show your finger to the biometric reader and it gets compared with the data stored in the smartcard. This solution offers the same benefits in terms of security but you keep control of your biometric data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this will surprise many slashdot readers but using your fingerprint as described by the poster for the purpose of clocking you in and out of work would be illegal in many countries accross Europe ( with the possible exception of the UK ) .
In France , for example , you can actually get fined by the data protection authority for doing so.It 's true that most of these devices do n't store an image of your fingerprint but rather a " template " : a description of some special features of your fingerprint .
But that does n't change the problem.Indeed , many data proctection authorities accross the EU consider that biometrics pose sevreall security and data protection issues and must therefore be used with caution .
Fingerprint biometrics are of special concern , in particular when the biometric data ( templates ) are stored in a central database .
The big problem with fingerprints is that we leave them everywhere , on all objects we touch .
Someone can pick up your fingerprint and test it against the templates inside the database .
( Sounds crazy or technically impossible ?
It 's much easier than you think : i 've tested it myself , that 's part of my job ) .
There are other issues whith fingerprint biometrics that I wo n't detail here.In the end data protection authorities in the EU consider that the use of a central fingerprint database is excessive if your only objective is only clocking people in and out .
Instead , they encourage the use of a smartcard to store the biometric data : you show your finger to the biometric reader and it gets compared with the data stored in the smartcard .
This solution offers the same benefits in terms of security but you keep control of your biometric data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this will surprise many slashdot readers but using your fingerprint as described by the poster for the purpose of clocking you in and out of work would be illegal in many countries accross Europe (with the possible exception of the UK).
In France, for example, you can actually get fined by the data protection authority for doing so.It's true that most of these devices don't store an image of your fingerprint but rather a "template" : a description of some special features of your fingerprint.
But that doesn't change the problem.Indeed, many data proctection authorities accross the EU consider that biometrics pose sevreall security and data protection issues and must therefore be used with caution.
Fingerprint biometrics are of special concern, in particular when the biometric data (templates) are stored in a central database.
The big problem with fingerprints is that we leave them everywhere, on all objects we touch.
Someone can pick up your fingerprint and test it against the templates inside the database.
(Sounds crazy or technically impossible ?
It's much easier than you think : i've tested it myself, that's part of my job).
There are other issues whith fingerprint biometrics that I won't detail here.In the end data protection authorities in the EU consider that the use of a central fingerprint database is excessive if your only objective is only clocking people in and out.
Instead, they encourage the use of a smartcard to store the biometric data : you show your finger to the biometric reader and it gets compared with the data stored in the smartcard.
This solution offers the same benefits in terms of security but you keep control of your biometric data.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217372</id>
	<title>Your government doesn't represent the people???</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1266752400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that what you're saying?</p><p>It's all suddenly a lot clearer...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that what you 're saying ? It 's all suddenly a lot clearer.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that what you're saying?It's all suddenly a lot clearer...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216052</id>
	<title>Come on</title>
	<author>Dun Kick The Noob</author>
	<datestamp>1266687300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its for authentication and tracking purposes. Its totally valid, if they want to install a fingerprint system to protect property which is obviously a valuable part of their organization. Its just a form of tracking and control no different from having you name and passwords. If privacy is what you want, get off the internet, and stop posting in forums, you have publicly given away your work, location and employee status.

Besides you dont need to remeber passwords, clock in, clock out card(which everybody can see what time u clock in and clock out).
And you obviously overeestimate the state of sophistication of current fingerprint recognition technology and their ability to record and transfer such informaiton
One afternoon in a data center alone with the urge to pee and the machine denying you EXIT will teach you that.

You want to oppose fingerprint , oppose on practical grounds, sweaty fingers, authentication failures, position errors....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its for authentication and tracking purposes .
Its totally valid , if they want to install a fingerprint system to protect property which is obviously a valuable part of their organization .
Its just a form of tracking and control no different from having you name and passwords .
If privacy is what you want , get off the internet , and stop posting in forums , you have publicly given away your work , location and employee status .
Besides you dont need to remeber passwords , clock in , clock out card ( which everybody can see what time u clock in and clock out ) .
And you obviously overeestimate the state of sophistication of current fingerprint recognition technology and their ability to record and transfer such informaiton One afternoon in a data center alone with the urge to pee and the machine denying you EXIT will teach you that .
You want to oppose fingerprint , oppose on practical grounds , sweaty fingers , authentication failures , position errors... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its for authentication and tracking purposes.
Its totally valid, if they want to install a fingerprint system to protect property which is obviously a valuable part of their organization.
Its just a form of tracking and control no different from having you name and passwords.
If privacy is what you want, get off the internet, and stop posting in forums, you have publicly given away your work, location and employee status.
Besides you dont need to remeber passwords, clock in, clock out card(which everybody can see what time u clock in and clock out).
And you obviously overeestimate the state of sophistication of current fingerprint recognition technology and their ability to record and transfer such informaiton
One afternoon in a data center alone with the urge to pee and the machine denying you EXIT will teach you that.
You want to oppose fingerprint , oppose on practical grounds, sweaty fingers, authentication failures, position errors....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215374</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>turbidostato</author>
	<datestamp>1266679380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It's our politicians, not the majority of our people"</p><p>It is precisely the majority of your people the ones that empowers your politicians.</p><p>"How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?""</p><p>How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away?  Or is it that, after all, they are not so averse to all that theater?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's our politicians , not the majority of our people " It is precisely the majority of your people the ones that empowers your politicians .
" How many average American citizens say , " Oh , I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us ?
" " How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away ?
Or is it that , after all , they are not so averse to all that theater ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's our politicians, not the majority of our people"It is precisely the majority of your people the ones that empowers your politicians.
"How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?
""How many average American citizens use their ballot power to have the thing go away?
Or is it that, after all, they are not so averse to all that theater?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216856</id>
	<title>Re:biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266784320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.</p></div><p>No, you're just less likely to get caught now because your employer is convinced that cheating is now impossible and takes whatever the time clock says as gospel.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now buddy cant swipe out for you , and you cant defraud your employeer.No , you 're just less likely to get caught now because your employer is convinced that cheating is now impossible and takes whatever the time clock says as gospel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Now buddy cant swipe out for you, and you cant defraud your employeer.No, you're just less likely to get caught now because your employer is convinced that cheating is now impossible and takes whatever the time clock says as gospel.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214584</id>
	<title>Go get a gun license</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a concealed pistol license.  That way your fingerprints will already be on record with the police and the FBI, and you won't be losing anything by being fingerprinted at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a concealed pistol license .
That way your fingerprints will already be on record with the police and the FBI , and you wo n't be losing anything by being fingerprinted at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a concealed pistol license.
That way your fingerprints will already be on record with the police and the FBI, and you won't be losing anything by being fingerprinted at work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215306</id>
	<title>Biometric identification</title>
	<author>brindafella</author>
	<datestamp>1266678900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>... university... I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.</p></div> </blockquote><p>There are numerous ways to implement biometric identification <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics</a> [wikipedia.org]. I don't need to look at the Wikipedia entry; I have personally had my data taken for systems using: eye scan, hand scan, and fingerprint.

</p><p>Some examples of biomerics:
<br>* I suspect that you have not been to a computer store recently, and seen many laptops have a fingerprint scanner as a security device. It's almost difficult to buy a laptop <i>without</i> such a system.
<br>* You're probably too young to have been interested in "The West Wing". In that show, a palm scanner is used for access to the secure briefing room.

</p><p>So, my advice is, "Get over it." These folk are making some place secure, and that's probably not a bad thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... university... I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work .
There are numerous ways to implement biometric identification http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics [ wikipedia.org ] .
I do n't need to look at the Wikipedia entry ; I have personally had my data taken for systems using : eye scan , hand scan , and fingerprint .
Some examples of biomerics : * I suspect that you have not been to a computer store recently , and seen many laptops have a fingerprint scanner as a security device .
It 's almost difficult to buy a laptop without such a system .
* You 're probably too young to have been interested in " The West Wing " .
In that show , a palm scanner is used for access to the secure briefing room .
So , my advice is , " Get over it .
" These folk are making some place secure , and that 's probably not a bad thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... university... I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.
There are numerous ways to implement biometric identification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics [wikipedia.org].
I don't need to look at the Wikipedia entry; I have personally had my data taken for systems using: eye scan, hand scan, and fingerprint.
Some examples of biomerics:
* I suspect that you have not been to a computer store recently, and seen many laptops have a fingerprint scanner as a security device.
It's almost difficult to buy a laptop without such a system.
* You're probably too young to have been interested in "The West Wing".
In that show, a palm scanner is used for access to the secure briefing room.
So, my advice is, "Get over it.
" These folk are making some place secure, and that's probably not a bad thing.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215270</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue</title>
	<author>KJSwartz</author>
	<datestamp>1266678540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have eight fingers - choose a finger with the least identifiable features (pinky finger, perhaps?).<br>Leave your thumbs for the Banks and the Mob.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have eight fingers - choose a finger with the least identifiable features ( pinky finger , perhaps ?
) .Leave your thumbs for the Banks and the Mob .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have eight fingers - choose a finger with the least identifiable features (pinky finger, perhaps?
).Leave your thumbs for the Banks and the Mob.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214326</id>
	<title>that nobody again!</title>
	<author>10am-bedtime</author>
	<datestamp>1266670560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Nobody can prevent war, famine and suffering.<br>
Nobody can save the economy.<br>
Nobody can brush your teeth for you.
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.anvari.org/fortune/Stefan\_Posthuma/393.html" title="anvari.org">Vote for Nobody!</a> [anvari.org]
</p><p>
Unfortunately, it's also true that "nobody has access to your fingerprints".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-O
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody can prevent war , famine and suffering .
Nobody can save the economy .
Nobody can brush your teeth for you .
Vote for Nobody !
[ anvari.org ] Unfortunately , it 's also true that " nobody has access to your fingerprints " .
: -O</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Nobody can prevent war, famine and suffering.
Nobody can save the economy.
Nobody can brush your teeth for you.
Vote for Nobody!
[anvari.org]

Unfortunately, it's also true that "nobody has access to your fingerprints".
:-O
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31219256</id>
	<title>Not Fingerprints, Fingerprint Geometry</title>
	<author>Dun Malg</author>
	<datestamp>1266775080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From what you've said, they're not actually taking your fingerprints. The machine they use for timekeeping uses biometrics, so you can't have a friend clock you in when you're not there. These machines don't keep an image of your fingerprint. When you "enroll" in the machine, your print is scanned and a vector map of certain aspects of your fingerprint is created. The geometry of this map is what identifies you. You certainly cannot reconstruct a fingerprint from the less than 100 byte map. It's like a hash value. Quit your worrying.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From what you 've said , they 're not actually taking your fingerprints .
The machine they use for timekeeping uses biometrics , so you ca n't have a friend clock you in when you 're not there .
These machines do n't keep an image of your fingerprint .
When you " enroll " in the machine , your print is scanned and a vector map of certain aspects of your fingerprint is created .
The geometry of this map is what identifies you .
You certainly can not reconstruct a fingerprint from the less than 100 byte map .
It 's like a hash value .
Quit your worrying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what you've said, they're not actually taking your fingerprints.
The machine they use for timekeeping uses biometrics, so you can't have a friend clock you in when you're not there.
These machines don't keep an image of your fingerprint.
When you "enroll" in the machine, your print is scanned and a vector map of certain aspects of your fingerprint is created.
The geometry of this map is what identifies you.
You certainly cannot reconstruct a fingerprint from the less than 100 byte map.
It's like a hash value.
Quit your worrying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216222</id>
	<title>Make up your own mind.</title>
	<author>dj e-rock</author>
	<datestamp>1266688980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look, a free market is what is good, pure, and true.

<br> <br>If you don't like the terms, don't apply or comply.  This has no bearing on anyone else.  In the end, it will work itself out.

<br> <br>If you make a stink but don't *really* do anything about it, it's an exercise in futility.  If you're hoping to do a work-study for an organization for which it would be a significant risk to employ a convicted felon (or comparable point of contention), perhaps you should look at alternative options.

<br> <br>There is no "right" to work.

<br> <br>Suck it up and deal with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , a free market is what is good , pure , and true .
If you do n't like the terms , do n't apply or comply .
This has no bearing on anyone else .
In the end , it will work itself out .
If you make a stink but do n't * really * do anything about it , it 's an exercise in futility .
If you 're hoping to do a work-study for an organization for which it would be a significant risk to employ a convicted felon ( or comparable point of contention ) , perhaps you should look at alternative options .
There is no " right " to work .
Suck it up and deal with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, a free market is what is good, pure, and true.
If you don't like the terms, don't apply or comply.
This has no bearing on anyone else.
In the end, it will work itself out.
If you make a stink but don't *really* do anything about it, it's an exercise in futility.
If you're hoping to do a work-study for an organization for which it would be a significant risk to employ a convicted felon (or comparable point of contention), perhaps you should look at alternative options.
There is no "right" to work.
Suck it up and deal with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215864</id>
	<title>just refuse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266685140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"a federal work-study position"</p><p>What if you just refuse? Can't the school find a position for you that won't involve fingerprint scanning?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" a federal work-study position " What if you just refuse ?
Ca n't the school find a position for you that wo n't involve fingerprint scanning ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"a federal work-study position"What if you just refuse?
Can't the school find a position for you that won't involve fingerprint scanning?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217554</id>
	<title>Serbia has biometric passports and ID cards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266756720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's so private about your fingerprint? I mean, it's *your* *private* finger, but... did you steal something and don't want to be caught? Or did you drink from a colleague's cup and are too embarassed to admit?</p><p>Serbia already has biometric passports and identity cards (changing every 5 years), makes fighting crime and person identification easier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's so private about your fingerprint ?
I mean , it 's * your * * private * finger , but... did you steal something and do n't want to be caught ?
Or did you drink from a colleague 's cup and are too embarassed to admit ? Serbia already has biometric passports and identity cards ( changing every 5 years ) , makes fighting crime and person identification easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's so private about your fingerprint?
I mean, it's *your* *private* finger, but... did you steal something and don't want to be caught?
Or did you drink from a colleague's cup and are too embarassed to admit?Serbia already has biometric passports and identity cards (changing every 5 years), makes fighting crime and person identification easier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214154</id>
	<title>find another job.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214528</id>
	<title>It's a non-issue</title>
	<author>galfridus73</author>
	<datestamp>1266672000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've used the same sort of device for my student assistants to clock in and out with. Your fingerprints are scanned, but not stored. A pattern is built for the computer to scan in the future when you use the timeclock - your print isn't there.
</p><p>
They're using biometrics because they're concerned about students logging each other in. That was my rationale (what are you going to do? Cut off your finger for your friend to clock you in?).
</p><p>
That said: Those scanners suck, especially with smaller fingers (my female employees had great trouble with that thing). I moved to a keypad-based device. It takes a touch more babysitting to keep everyone honest, but I leave it in a fairly public area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used the same sort of device for my student assistants to clock in and out with .
Your fingerprints are scanned , but not stored .
A pattern is built for the computer to scan in the future when you use the timeclock - your print is n't there .
They 're using biometrics because they 're concerned about students logging each other in .
That was my rationale ( what are you going to do ?
Cut off your finger for your friend to clock you in ? ) .
That said : Those scanners suck , especially with smaller fingers ( my female employees had great trouble with that thing ) .
I moved to a keypad-based device .
It takes a touch more babysitting to keep everyone honest , but I leave it in a fairly public area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used the same sort of device for my student assistants to clock in and out with.
Your fingerprints are scanned, but not stored.
A pattern is built for the computer to scan in the future when you use the timeclock - your print isn't there.
They're using biometrics because they're concerned about students logging each other in.
That was my rationale (what are you going to do?
Cut off your finger for your friend to clock you in?).
That said: Those scanners suck, especially with smaller fingers (my female employees had great trouble with that thing).
I moved to a keypad-based device.
It takes a touch more babysitting to keep everyone honest, but I leave it in a fairly public area.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214484</id>
	<title>You must resist!</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1266671760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gattaca! Gattaca!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gattaca !
Gattaca !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gattaca!
Gattaca!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31220688</id>
	<title>Is there a need for security?</title>
	<author>IshmaelDS</author>
	<datestamp>1266782100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your saying your doing work for a federal-work study program.  Are you doing anything with anything that is considered sensitive information?  If so I think there is a justified need for it, if not, seems alittle overkill though.  Have you asked why this requirement is being made?  From the way you worded the question it seems like you have been doing this for a bit and this new directive just came down.  Did anything change in the nature of what your doing?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your saying your doing work for a federal-work study program .
Are you doing anything with anything that is considered sensitive information ?
If so I think there is a justified need for it , if not , seems alittle overkill though .
Have you asked why this requirement is being made ?
From the way you worded the question it seems like you have been doing this for a bit and this new directive just came down .
Did anything change in the nature of what your doing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your saying your doing work for a federal-work study program.
Are you doing anything with anything that is considered sensitive information?
If so I think there is a justified need for it, if not, seems alittle overkill though.
Have you asked why this requirement is being made?
From the way you worded the question it seems like you have been doing this for a bit and this new directive just came down.
Did anything change in the nature of what your doing?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215860</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266685140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that depends.  is it a hot lady boss?  theres nothing to be upset about there either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that depends .
is it a hot lady boss ?
theres nothing to be upset about there either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that depends.
is it a hot lady boss?
theres nothing to be upset about there either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215326</id>
	<title>oh noes!</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1266679020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.</p></div><p>They aren't taking your finger prints.  They're registering you in their timeclock machine.  It's a relatively cheap, simple way to make sure real human beings are clocking in and out.</p><p>The simplest are just crappy fingerprint readers plugged into a PC running some software...  The nicer ones are stand-alone devices.</p><p>Generally speaking, they'll get you set up ahead of time...  But your name and employee number and whatever into the machine.  Then they hit some button and have you put your thumb on the machine - this registers your thumbprint to your information.  Generally it's just a thumbprint, not a full set of fingerprints.  Generally speaking, there's no way to get that print information out of the machine.  You might be able to load up the whole data file on another machine...  But they aren't going to send your prints off to the FBI or anything.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This raises huge privacy concerns for me</p></div><p>Because you, evidently, don't understand what's going on.</p><p>They don't want to track your every movement.  They aren't going to turn your prints over to the FBI.  This isn't some invasive policy.  They just want to make sure that it's <b>you</b> clocking in and out...  And not some buddy you gave your timecard to so he could cover for you showing up late to work.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>as it should for everybody else.</p></div><p>Yes, of course it should.  Because unfounded fear and paranoia are very useful things.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.They are n't taking your finger prints .
They 're registering you in their timeclock machine .
It 's a relatively cheap , simple way to make sure real human beings are clocking in and out.The simplest are just crappy fingerprint readers plugged into a PC running some software... The nicer ones are stand-alone devices.Generally speaking , they 'll get you set up ahead of time... But your name and employee number and whatever into the machine .
Then they hit some button and have you put your thumb on the machine - this registers your thumbprint to your information .
Generally it 's just a thumbprint , not a full set of fingerprints .
Generally speaking , there 's no way to get that print information out of the machine .
You might be able to load up the whole data file on another machine... But they are n't going to send your prints off to the FBI or anything.This raises huge privacy concerns for meBecause you , evidently , do n't understand what 's going on.They do n't want to track your every movement .
They are n't going to turn your prints over to the FBI .
This is n't some invasive policy .
They just want to make sure that it 's you clocking in and out... And not some buddy you gave your timecard to so he could cover for you showing up late to work.as it should for everybody else.Yes , of course it should .
Because unfounded fear and paranoia are very useful things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I need to go to their office and have my finger prints taken for the purposes of clocking in and out of work.They aren't taking your finger prints.
They're registering you in their timeclock machine.
It's a relatively cheap, simple way to make sure real human beings are clocking in and out.The simplest are just crappy fingerprint readers plugged into a PC running some software...  The nicer ones are stand-alone devices.Generally speaking, they'll get you set up ahead of time...  But your name and employee number and whatever into the machine.
Then they hit some button and have you put your thumb on the machine - this registers your thumbprint to your information.
Generally it's just a thumbprint, not a full set of fingerprints.
Generally speaking, there's no way to get that print information out of the machine.
You might be able to load up the whole data file on another machine...  But they aren't going to send your prints off to the FBI or anything.This raises huge privacy concerns for meBecause you, evidently, don't understand what's going on.They don't want to track your every movement.
They aren't going to turn your prints over to the FBI.
This isn't some invasive policy.
They just want to make sure that it's you clocking in and out...  And not some buddy you gave your timecard to so he could cover for you showing up late to work.as it should for everybody else.Yes, of course it should.
Because unfounded fear and paranoia are very useful things.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31305378</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267370280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's because Brazilians are filthy monkeys, and we need not trust such criminals in our society.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's because Brazilians are filthy monkeys , and we need not trust such criminals in our society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's because Brazilians are filthy monkeys, and we need not trust such criminals in our society.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215542</id>
	<title>You can forget going to Japan on a graduation trip</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266681660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST23858020071120</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.reuters.com/article/idUST23858020071120</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST23858020071120</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214346</id>
	<title>Pick your battles. Settle for knowing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...that the next time a pompous administrator says in public "nobody has complained about that," you know that he is lying. Settle for not just knucking under without saying anything at all. Settle for knowing, if you do know, that your complaint has reached someone who sets policy and that you're not just making things hard on a bunch of other ordinary workers whose job is to keep things running.</p><p>This is not nothing at all, but it's a small thing.</p><p>You can't change the world through indignation. You really have only three choices. First, be docile and do nothing at all. That's often a good option by the way. Second, make sure your concerns have been heard, even if they are dismissed. Or, third, be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing.</p><p>If you feel that spending a year or two toward the goal of getting the university to stop using fingerprinting gadgets for access to work-study jobs is worth it, and is what you want to do with that chunk of your life, you can probably achieve your goal. I dunno how. Work through the union if there is one? Start a union if there isn't one? Make appointments and personally talk to one administrator after another, calmly, until you figure out how to get the policy changed? Personally work out an actual proposal, including costs and benefits, for alternative security, so you're presenting them with something positive and their work all done for them, instead of just saying "don't do what you're doing?" Find a faculty committee that's interested in the question that you can swing to your side? I dunno.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...that the next time a pompous administrator says in public " nobody has complained about that , " you know that he is lying .
Settle for not just knucking under without saying anything at all .
Settle for knowing , if you do know , that your complaint has reached someone who sets policy and that you 're not just making things hard on a bunch of other ordinary workers whose job is to keep things running.This is not nothing at all , but it 's a small thing.You ca n't change the world through indignation .
You really have only three choices .
First , be docile and do nothing at all .
That 's often a good option by the way .
Second , make sure your concerns have been heard , even if they are dismissed .
Or , third , be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing.If you feel that spending a year or two toward the goal of getting the university to stop using fingerprinting gadgets for access to work-study jobs is worth it , and is what you want to do with that chunk of your life , you can probably achieve your goal .
I dunno how .
Work through the union if there is one ?
Start a union if there is n't one ?
Make appointments and personally talk to one administrator after another , calmly , until you figure out how to get the policy changed ?
Personally work out an actual proposal , including costs and benefits , for alternative security , so you 're presenting them with something positive and their work all done for them , instead of just saying " do n't do what you 're doing ?
" Find a faculty committee that 's interested in the question that you can swing to your side ?
I dunno .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...that the next time a pompous administrator says in public "nobody has complained about that," you know that he is lying.
Settle for not just knucking under without saying anything at all.
Settle for knowing, if you do know, that your complaint has reached someone who sets policy and that you're not just making things hard on a bunch of other ordinary workers whose job is to keep things running.This is not nothing at all, but it's a small thing.You can't change the world through indignation.
You really have only three choices.
First, be docile and do nothing at all.
That's often a good option by the way.
Second, make sure your concerns have been heard, even if they are dismissed.
Or, third, be prepared to devote at least a year or two of your life to the cause of fighting this thing.If you feel that spending a year or two toward the goal of getting the university to stop using fingerprinting gadgets for access to work-study jobs is worth it, and is what you want to do with that chunk of your life, you can probably achieve your goal.
I dunno how.
Work through the union if there is one?
Start a union if there isn't one?
Make appointments and personally talk to one administrator after another, calmly, until you figure out how to get the policy changed?
Personally work out an actual proposal, including costs and benefits, for alternative security, so you're presenting them with something positive and their work all done for them, instead of just saying "don't do what you're doing?
" Find a faculty committee that's interested in the question that you can swing to your side?
I dunno.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214178</id>
	<title>Welcome to the new world</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Same as the old one...  My wife's workplace has this system.  Works terribly but somehow it got past some CxO.  Not sure if the privacy issue is a big deal however.  You train the system in the system (if it's the same one).  The print doesn't go out to the big Gov.  <br> <br>
Not saying that they couldn't do that, but you do realize (being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter) that 'they' can get your fingerprints, DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days.<br> <br>
Hell, at least it's pretty unlikely to show up on Facebook.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Same as the old one... My wife 's workplace has this system .
Works terribly but somehow it got past some CxO .
Not sure if the privacy issue is a big deal however .
You train the system in the system ( if it 's the same one ) .
The print does n't go out to the big Gov .
Not saying that they could n't do that , but you do realize ( being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter ) that 'they ' can get your fingerprints , DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days .
Hell , at least it 's pretty unlikely to show up on Facebook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same as the old one...  My wife's workplace has this system.
Works terribly but somehow it got past some CxO.
Not sure if the privacy issue is a big deal however.
You train the system in the system (if it's the same one).
The print doesn't go out to the big Gov.
Not saying that they couldn't do that, but you do realize (being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter) that 'they' can get your fingerprints, DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days.
Hell, at least it's pretty unlikely to show up on Facebook.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214672</id>
	<title>Re:What else should I do?</title>
	<author>bunbuntheminilop</author>
	<datestamp>1266673200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They should tell them what it is and how it works. Clearly. In a little brochure. Does no one care about employee relations anymore?</htmltext>
<tokenext>They should tell them what it is and how it works .
Clearly. In a little brochure .
Does no one care about employee relations anymore ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should tell them what it is and how it works.
Clearly. In a little brochure.
Does no one care about employee relations anymore?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214390</id>
	<title>University &amp; Biometric ID</title>
	<author>SCSI-Wan</author>
	<datestamp>1266671100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My university uses palm scanners to identify students to allow them access to the campus gym.  To my understanding, instead of using an actual image, it generates a unique ID based on sample points within the palm image and then discards the original.  From that point forward it just compares the generated ID.  I guess, it can technically store an image, but the system would likely need to be modified (cracked) to function in a way the manufacturer did not intend.</p><p>If you have doubts about the storage, usage, or security of your information, you have the right to question the system.  A good question to ask yourself is "what could someone do with this information if it were abused or compromised?"  This may help put such situations into perspective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My university uses palm scanners to identify students to allow them access to the campus gym .
To my understanding , instead of using an actual image , it generates a unique ID based on sample points within the palm image and then discards the original .
From that point forward it just compares the generated ID .
I guess , it can technically store an image , but the system would likely need to be modified ( cracked ) to function in a way the manufacturer did not intend.If you have doubts about the storage , usage , or security of your information , you have the right to question the system .
A good question to ask yourself is " what could someone do with this information if it were abused or compromised ?
" This may help put such situations into perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university uses palm scanners to identify students to allow them access to the campus gym.
To my understanding, instead of using an actual image, it generates a unique ID based on sample points within the palm image and then discards the original.
From that point forward it just compares the generated ID.
I guess, it can technically store an image, but the system would likely need to be modified (cracked) to function in a way the manufacturer did not intend.If you have doubts about the storage, usage, or security of your information, you have the right to question the system.
A good question to ask yourself is "what could someone do with this information if it were abused or compromised?
"  This may help put such situations into perspective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217812</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266761040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like its time for the "well armed militia" to take on the inner enemy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like its time for the " well armed militia " to take on the inner enemy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like its time for the "well armed militia" to take on the inner enemy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216968</id>
	<title>Get a spare finger</title>
	<author>Qubit</author>
	<datestamp>1266743580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People are dying all the time. Heck, you might even be able to get away with something that isn't a finger, like a rubbery mold made from someone else's finger.</p><p>Get the finger-like tool, then use it to clock-in and clock-out. If you ever need to be AFO (that's Away From Office), just hand the finger-like tool to your buddy at work and take off. Of course, if your manager is actually a <em>human being</em> you can probably just talk to them and change around the hours you work in the day so you can get your appointments and other stuff done while also completing your work.</p><p>Also, in related news: (try to) Get a different job. Preferably one that doesn't make you give them biometric data, implant an RFID chip in your bicep, etc...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People are dying all the time .
Heck , you might even be able to get away with something that is n't a finger , like a rubbery mold made from someone else 's finger.Get the finger-like tool , then use it to clock-in and clock-out .
If you ever need to be AFO ( that 's Away From Office ) , just hand the finger-like tool to your buddy at work and take off .
Of course , if your manager is actually a human being you can probably just talk to them and change around the hours you work in the day so you can get your appointments and other stuff done while also completing your work.Also , in related news : ( try to ) Get a different job .
Preferably one that does n't make you give them biometric data , implant an RFID chip in your bicep , etc.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are dying all the time.
Heck, you might even be able to get away with something that isn't a finger, like a rubbery mold made from someone else's finger.Get the finger-like tool, then use it to clock-in and clock-out.
If you ever need to be AFO (that's Away From Office), just hand the finger-like tool to your buddy at work and take off.
Of course, if your manager is actually a human being you can probably just talk to them and change around the hours you work in the day so you can get your appointments and other stuff done while also completing your work.Also, in related news: (try to) Get a different job.
Preferably one that doesn't make you give them biometric data, implant an RFID chip in your bicep, etc...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217756</id>
	<title>I use a finger scanner at work to clock in and out</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266760380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at a retail store that requires that everyone sign in with their finger so that they can pay us. When they implemented the system it was deal with it or leave, we are now paid for exactly how long we have been working down to the minute and that suits me fine. The machine doesn't store an image of your finger just an encrypted value of some kind that your finger matches up to. There's no conspiracy to steal your identity or in anyway a privacy concern.</p><p>What I think you should do is, nothing. You have bigger problems than worrying about clocking in with your finger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at a retail store that requires that everyone sign in with their finger so that they can pay us .
When they implemented the system it was deal with it or leave , we are now paid for exactly how long we have been working down to the minute and that suits me fine .
The machine does n't store an image of your finger just an encrypted value of some kind that your finger matches up to .
There 's no conspiracy to steal your identity or in anyway a privacy concern.What I think you should do is , nothing .
You have bigger problems than worrying about clocking in with your finger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at a retail store that requires that everyone sign in with their finger so that they can pay us.
When they implemented the system it was deal with it or leave, we are now paid for exactly how long we have been working down to the minute and that suits me fine.
The machine doesn't store an image of your finger just an encrypted value of some kind that your finger matches up to.
There's no conspiracy to steal your identity or in anyway a privacy concern.What I think you should do is, nothing.
You have bigger problems than worrying about clocking in with your finger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218574</id>
	<title>Make them fire you</title>
	<author>Coppit</author>
	<datestamp>1266769200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They shouldn't need to have a fingerprint scan to measure hours worked, because they shouldn't be treating employees like liars. To the extent that there are liars on the payroll, that's their fault for hiring such people.</p><p>

I would refuse to do it on the grounds above, and wait for them to fire you. This forces them to decide whether you're more valuable than their stupid belief that you might lie about your hours. I'm sure you can get another job if they can't.</p><p>

That said, I use a security badge every day I go in the office, and I'm sure that's logged... The difference is that they can easily deactivate my old badge and issue a new one. If their system is compromise, they can't issue you new thumbs. Plus there's the lop-off-the-thumbs incentive...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They should n't need to have a fingerprint scan to measure hours worked , because they should n't be treating employees like liars .
To the extent that there are liars on the payroll , that 's their fault for hiring such people .
I would refuse to do it on the grounds above , and wait for them to fire you .
This forces them to decide whether you 're more valuable than their stupid belief that you might lie about your hours .
I 'm sure you can get another job if they ca n't .
That said , I use a security badge every day I go in the office , and I 'm sure that 's logged... The difference is that they can easily deactivate my old badge and issue a new one .
If their system is compromise , they ca n't issue you new thumbs .
Plus there 's the lop-off-the-thumbs incentive.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They shouldn't need to have a fingerprint scan to measure hours worked, because they shouldn't be treating employees like liars.
To the extent that there are liars on the payroll, that's their fault for hiring such people.
I would refuse to do it on the grounds above, and wait for them to fire you.
This forces them to decide whether you're more valuable than their stupid belief that you might lie about your hours.
I'm sure you can get another job if they can't.
That said, I use a security badge every day I go in the office, and I'm sure that's logged... The difference is that they can easily deactivate my old badge and issue a new one.
If their system is compromise, they can't issue you new thumbs.
Plus there's the lop-off-the-thumbs incentive...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214704</id>
	<title>Re:Disney World</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266673500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to live in Tampa and had a year pass to Busch Gardens. That park also has finger print scanners however the employees do not make it obvious that using them is optional (If one refuses they will ask to see ID to be sure that the names on both the pass and ID match) but the vast majority of people just give over their fingerprints (as well as the fingerprints of their children). While I don't think that there is anything sinister about it, the more common practices like this become the less people will think about the implications of handing over personal data such as this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to live in Tampa and had a year pass to Busch Gardens .
That park also has finger print scanners however the employees do not make it obvious that using them is optional ( If one refuses they will ask to see ID to be sure that the names on both the pass and ID match ) but the vast majority of people just give over their fingerprints ( as well as the fingerprints of their children ) .
While I do n't think that there is anything sinister about it , the more common practices like this become the less people will think about the implications of handing over personal data such as this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to live in Tampa and had a year pass to Busch Gardens.
That park also has finger print scanners however the employees do not make it obvious that using them is optional (If one refuses they will ask to see ID to be sure that the names on both the pass and ID match) but the vast majority of people just give over their fingerprints (as well as the fingerprints of their children).
While I don't think that there is anything sinister about it, the more common practices like this become the less people will think about the implications of handing over personal data such as this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217448</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266753960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>^^^<br>Awesome. I like the Brazilian constitution<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>^ ^ ^ Awesome .
I like the Brazilian constitution : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>^^^Awesome.
I like the Brazilian constitution :D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217560</id>
	<title>What's the problem?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266756780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...I say that a lot. Saves the effort of thinking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about .
...I say that a lot .
Saves the effort of thinking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
...I say that a lot.
Saves the effort of thinking.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214624</id>
	<title>RFID in the anal cavity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so they can find out who takes the longest shit</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so they can find out who takes the longest shit</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so they can find out who takes the longest shit</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31219798</id>
	<title>This is normal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266777660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a normal procedure in US federal government work. If your parents ever took you to get your fingerprints taken at wal-mart by cops when you were a kid, the govenment already has them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a normal procedure in US federal government work .
If your parents ever took you to get your fingerprints taken at wal-mart by cops when you were a kid , the govenment already has them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a normal procedure in US federal government work.
If your parents ever took you to get your fingerprints taken at wal-mart by cops when you were a kid, the govenment already has them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215810</id>
	<title>WTF!</title>
	<author>the\_hellspawn</author>
	<datestamp>1266684600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What did you kill someone and rape the corpse? Who cares little girl. If you want the big 'G', then suck it up little girl! Grow up; because, you are about as much of a threat to a grape as the boy who won't break a grape in a food fight. Little idiots!</htmltext>
<tokenext>What did you kill someone and rape the corpse ?
Who cares little girl .
If you want the big 'G ' , then suck it up little girl !
Grow up ; because , you are about as much of a threat to a grape as the boy who wo n't break a grape in a food fight .
Little idiots !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What did you kill someone and rape the corpse?
Who cares little girl.
If you want the big 'G', then suck it up little girl!
Grow up; because, you are about as much of a threat to a grape as the boy who won't break a grape in a food fight.
Little idiots!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214272</id>
	<title>Re:It used to be worse</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1266670200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really.. you had to pledge loyalty to the mayor?  Is this in case of attack by a neighboring city-state?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really.. you had to pledge loyalty to the mayor ?
Is this in case of attack by a neighboring city-state ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really.. you had to pledge loyalty to the mayor?
Is this in case of attack by a neighboring city-state?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218002</id>
	<title>Re:As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1266763440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Fingerprint scanners are the best (In terms of ease of implementation) way<br>&gt; to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other...</p><p>No.  Competent supervision is the best way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other.  If their management is so incompetent that they need this to prevent such things they have problems a fingerprint machine won't solve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Fingerprint scanners are the best ( In terms of ease of implementation ) way &gt; to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other...No .
Competent supervision is the best way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other .
If their management is so incompetent that they need this to prevent such things they have problems a fingerprint machine wo n't solve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Fingerprint scanners are the best (In terms of ease of implementation) way&gt; to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other...No.
Competent supervision is the best way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other.
If their management is so incompetent that they need this to prevent such things they have problems a fingerprint machine won't solve.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216824</id>
	<title>Welcome to the real world</title>
	<author>cyberfringe</author>
	<datestamp>1266783840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I doubt this will come as a shock to most<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. readers, but having your fingerprints taken is quite common in the workplace.  Many employers will require this as part of a background  check.  If you work for a company with significant US federal contracts, you should expect it.  When you enter and leave certain countries, fingerprints are required (e.g., Japan).  Actually I am more comfortable with being identified by my fingerprints or retina than by my name or address or whatever other text data is found in all those zillions of databases that know about me.  Identity theft is so common but as far as I know it hasn't quite caught up to biometrics yet.  Seriously, this is no big deal because you can't really use fingerprint data to tell anything else about you.  Now if they want a mouth swap or hair samples then I would object!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt this will come as a shock to most / .
readers , but having your fingerprints taken is quite common in the workplace .
Many employers will require this as part of a background check .
If you work for a company with significant US federal contracts , you should expect it .
When you enter and leave certain countries , fingerprints are required ( e.g. , Japan ) .
Actually I am more comfortable with being identified by my fingerprints or retina than by my name or address or whatever other text data is found in all those zillions of databases that know about me .
Identity theft is so common but as far as I know it has n't quite caught up to biometrics yet .
Seriously , this is no big deal because you ca n't really use fingerprint data to tell anything else about you .
Now if they want a mouth swap or hair samples then I would object !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I doubt this will come as a shock to most /.
readers, but having your fingerprints taken is quite common in the workplace.
Many employers will require this as part of a background  check.
If you work for a company with significant US federal contracts, you should expect it.
When you enter and leave certain countries, fingerprints are required (e.g., Japan).
Actually I am more comfortable with being identified by my fingerprints or retina than by my name or address or whatever other text data is found in all those zillions of databases that know about me.
Identity theft is so common but as far as I know it hasn't quite caught up to biometrics yet.
Seriously, this is no big deal because you can't really use fingerprint data to tell anything else about you.
Now if they want a mouth swap or hair samples then I would object!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216204</id>
	<title>You are all missing the big picture here</title>
	<author>HellYeahAutomaton</author>
	<datestamp>1266688860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The big picture problem is that there is mistrust from employers to employees and employees with the outside world.</p><p>Companies have NO IDEA how to a) recognize talent b) recognize character and because of their failings in this regard they put up all of these countermeasures.<br>(Hire people smarter than you, but don't trust them an inch!)</p><p>Employers have an unconscionable amount of power and control over its employees and not taking a stand is the passive, safe, and lazy thing to do.</p><p>If you are playing along with the erosion of your liberties for an employer you may as well consider yourself an indentured servant or a slave and start answering everything with "Yess massah, anything you say massah"</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The big picture problem is that there is mistrust from employers to employees and employees with the outside world.Companies have NO IDEA how to a ) recognize talent b ) recognize character and because of their failings in this regard they put up all of these countermeasures .
( Hire people smarter than you , but do n't trust them an inch !
) Employers have an unconscionable amount of power and control over its employees and not taking a stand is the passive , safe , and lazy thing to do.If you are playing along with the erosion of your liberties for an employer you may as well consider yourself an indentured servant or a slave and start answering everything with " Yess massah , anything you say massah "  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The big picture problem is that there is mistrust from employers to employees and employees with the outside world.Companies have NO IDEA how to a) recognize talent b) recognize character and because of their failings in this regard they put up all of these countermeasures.
(Hire people smarter than you, but don't trust them an inch!
)Employers have an unconscionable amount of power and control over its employees and not taking a stand is the passive, safe, and lazy thing to do.If you are playing along with the erosion of your liberties for an employer you may as well consider yourself an indentured servant or a slave and start answering everything with "Yess massah, anything you say massah"
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214552</id>
	<title>They are right your fingerprint is not stored...</title>
	<author>Foo2rama</author>
	<datestamp>1266672120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your prints are not stored, a geometric design made from identifiable parts of your fingerprint are stored.<br> <br> <br>  Your making a big deal about nothing.  Besides as other people have pointed out I can grab your fingerprints from your car door, or from a soda can in your trash.  FYI your bank has your fingerprint, and odds are that your parents had your fingerprints taken at some point in your life as you are in college.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your prints are not stored , a geometric design made from identifiable parts of your fingerprint are stored .
Your making a big deal about nothing .
Besides as other people have pointed out I can grab your fingerprints from your car door , or from a soda can in your trash .
FYI your bank has your fingerprint , and odds are that your parents had your fingerprints taken at some point in your life as you are in college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your prints are not stored, a geometric design made from identifiable parts of your fingerprint are stored.
Your making a big deal about nothing.
Besides as other people have pointed out I can grab your fingerprints from your car door, or from a soda can in your trash.
FYI your bank has your fingerprint, and odds are that your parents had your fingerprints taken at some point in your life as you are in college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31222128</id>
	<title>Re:What else should I do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266748560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Work-study is a tax free position on campus under FAFSA designation. If this is system-wide for the school, this is a problem. I have work-study at UW-Whitewater and there is no such requirement for fingerprints on a time-clock. The system uses KRONOS to log time punches, which is sufficient enough for this kind of procedure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Work-study is a tax free position on campus under FAFSA designation .
If this is system-wide for the school , this is a problem .
I have work-study at UW-Whitewater and there is no such requirement for fingerprints on a time-clock .
The system uses KRONOS to log time punches , which is sufficient enough for this kind of procedure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Work-study is a tax free position on campus under FAFSA designation.
If this is system-wide for the school, this is a problem.
I have work-study at UW-Whitewater and there is no such requirement for fingerprints on a time-clock.
The system uses KRONOS to log time punches, which is sufficient enough for this kind of procedure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218188</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1266765120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When complaining about it, just using 'privacy' will not be enough. What you need to do is look at the price, look at the price of alternatives and see what the advantages/disadvantages are. And then come up with the system that will be more price efficient.</p><p>What you need to know is how much they think people abuse the current system, then ask how they came up with that number.</p><p>What most likely is, is that they noticed one or two people logging in for others, think that everybody does that and use everybody as a parameter. Also they assume that if they use this system, nobody will be able to cheat. So you are fighting with falsified numbers and decisions that are already take before any calculations are done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When complaining about it , just using 'privacy ' will not be enough .
What you need to do is look at the price , look at the price of alternatives and see what the advantages/disadvantages are .
And then come up with the system that will be more price efficient.What you need to know is how much they think people abuse the current system , then ask how they came up with that number.What most likely is , is that they noticed one or two people logging in for others , think that everybody does that and use everybody as a parameter .
Also they assume that if they use this system , nobody will be able to cheat .
So you are fighting with falsified numbers and decisions that are already take before any calculations are done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When complaining about it, just using 'privacy' will not be enough.
What you need to do is look at the price, look at the price of alternatives and see what the advantages/disadvantages are.
And then come up with the system that will be more price efficient.What you need to know is how much they think people abuse the current system, then ask how they came up with that number.What most likely is, is that they noticed one or two people logging in for others, think that everybody does that and use everybody as a parameter.
Also they assume that if they use this system, nobody will be able to cheat.
So you are fighting with falsified numbers and decisions that are already take before any calculations are done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31357980</id>
	<title>Not all biometric systems are privacy killers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267718520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which device they are using/plan to use?</p><p>Some access card readers with biometric capabilities read the fingerprint template (previously stored as enrollment process) from your card , so there is no privacy problems with all biometric systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which device they are using/plan to use ? Some access card readers with biometric capabilities read the fingerprint template ( previously stored as enrollment process ) from your card , so there is no privacy problems with all biometric systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which device they are using/plan to use?Some access card readers with biometric capabilities read the fingerprint template (previously stored as enrollment process) from your card , so there is no privacy problems with all biometric systems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217684</id>
	<title>Ok, really?</title>
	<author>shrtcircuit</author>
	<datestamp>1266759420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who cares?  It's not a DNA sample, or even a complete fingerprint, it's a machine that stores a few data points.  These have been in widespread use for well over a decade.<br><br>You're already identified as you, this is just way for you to prove it without them having to issue things that get lost, which I'm sure can be a big logistical issue for a University seeing as college students are irresponsible idiots most of the time.  I suppose they could give you a badge to swipe, but I would imagine they also have issues with students clocking their friends in and out (see previous "irresponsible idiots" statement), so this is a way to physically verify you were really there with as little administrative overhead as possible.<br><br>Be far more concerned with all the other information they have about you (like, your whole life), and how securely it's actually being stored.  Security breaches at colleges are rampant, and a few data points on a time clock are really the least of your worries if it got out.<br><br>How the hell did this get to &gt;430 replies over misplaced paranoia?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares ?
It 's not a DNA sample , or even a complete fingerprint , it 's a machine that stores a few data points .
These have been in widespread use for well over a decade.You 're already identified as you , this is just way for you to prove it without them having to issue things that get lost , which I 'm sure can be a big logistical issue for a University seeing as college students are irresponsible idiots most of the time .
I suppose they could give you a badge to swipe , but I would imagine they also have issues with students clocking their friends in and out ( see previous " irresponsible idiots " statement ) , so this is a way to physically verify you were really there with as little administrative overhead as possible.Be far more concerned with all the other information they have about you ( like , your whole life ) , and how securely it 's actually being stored .
Security breaches at colleges are rampant , and a few data points on a time clock are really the least of your worries if it got out.How the hell did this get to &gt; 430 replies over misplaced paranoia ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares?
It's not a DNA sample, or even a complete fingerprint, it's a machine that stores a few data points.
These have been in widespread use for well over a decade.You're already identified as you, this is just way for you to prove it without them having to issue things that get lost, which I'm sure can be a big logistical issue for a University seeing as college students are irresponsible idiots most of the time.
I suppose they could give you a badge to swipe, but I would imagine they also have issues with students clocking their friends in and out (see previous "irresponsible idiots" statement), so this is a way to physically verify you were really there with as little administrative overhead as possible.Be far more concerned with all the other information they have about you (like, your whole life), and how securely it's actually being stored.
Security breaches at colleges are rampant, and a few data points on a time clock are really the least of your worries if it got out.How the hell did this get to &gt;430 replies over misplaced paranoia?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214986</id>
	<title>From a grateful fossil</title>
	<author>A nonymous Coward</author>
	<datestamp>1266676200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exceptin' Alice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exceptin ' Alice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exceptin' Alice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215218</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266678120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>beats being a little bitch like you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>beats being a little bitch like you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>beats being a little bitch like you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215456</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266680460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Fingerprints and other information stored on one one "computer" can be accessed from other "computers" sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information.</p></div><p> Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet?  You do realize that a fingerprint biometric scanner doesn't actually STORE a fingerprint?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fingerprints and other information stored on one one " computer " can be accessed from other " computers " sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information .
Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet ?
You do realize that a fingerprint biometric scanner does n't actually STORE a fingerprint ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fingerprints and other information stored on one one "computer" can be accessed from other "computers" sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information.
Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet?
You do realize that a fingerprint biometric scanner doesn't actually STORE a fingerprint?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214714</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31220288</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1266780240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And not working for the employer is exactly how you fight it. The free market gives everyone the right to vote with their dollars, and we should exercise that right. If enough people oppose this the employer will back down. They're out there to help themselves, not hurt you, and if they realize that all of their new workers are people who can't find jobs anywhere else they'll rethink their policies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And not working for the employer is exactly how you fight it .
The free market gives everyone the right to vote with their dollars , and we should exercise that right .
If enough people oppose this the employer will back down .
They 're out there to help themselves , not hurt you , and if they realize that all of their new workers are people who ca n't find jobs anywhere else they 'll rethink their policies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And not working for the employer is exactly how you fight it.
The free market gives everyone the right to vote with their dollars, and we should exercise that right.
If enough people oppose this the employer will back down.
They're out there to help themselves, not hurt you, and if they realize that all of their new workers are people who can't find jobs anywhere else they'll rethink their policies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215466</id>
	<title>There ARE privacy concerns, but it's workable.</title>
	<author>avaspell</author>
	<datestamp>1266680640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, to those people who make the declaration "Don't be so paranoid, they can take your fingerprints from a door handle or a cup", I retort that you should then have no problem complying with a requirement from an employer/bank/whatever to take your DNA and keep it on file, because obviously they could just get it form a piece of hair or skin you leave around everywhere(welcome to  Gattica!). That argument is a batch of crap. The taking of fingerprints is absolutely an invasion of privacy for those who are concerned about malice or undesired use/supeona of the information. And the people making the argument that a hash or encoding of the fingerprint data makes it impossible to use as evidence doesn't understand that law enforcement, etc. can fairly easily obtain that hash, then get a second scan from you and compare the hashes in order to positively identify you.<br> <br>

All that being said, most fingerprint scanners used for timeclocks, door locks, etc. don't store the data with sufficient precision to use it as credible evidence that the scan was you. This is part of why they are both non-trivial and pretty easy to fake. It's precisely that dual, semi-contradictory nature of fingerprint scanners that make them so useful as a biometric access device. <br> <br>

Of course, you have no idea if the biometric scanners used by this university have that kind of precision, so it's probably best for both you and the university if they simply modify the policy to state that the precision of data the devices gather do not and shall not be able to qualify as proof of identity of in a court of law.<br> <br>

Then you're clear. Your biometric data at that point has the same significance as an ID badge. Any use of that data as evidence must be corroborated.<br> <br>

It might not have been such a good idea to contact a paper or other news outlet unless the university refused to clarify their agreement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , to those people who make the declaration " Do n't be so paranoid , they can take your fingerprints from a door handle or a cup " , I retort that you should then have no problem complying with a requirement from an employer/bank/whatever to take your DNA and keep it on file , because obviously they could just get it form a piece of hair or skin you leave around everywhere ( welcome to Gattica ! ) .
That argument is a batch of crap .
The taking of fingerprints is absolutely an invasion of privacy for those who are concerned about malice or undesired use/supeona of the information .
And the people making the argument that a hash or encoding of the fingerprint data makes it impossible to use as evidence does n't understand that law enforcement , etc .
can fairly easily obtain that hash , then get a second scan from you and compare the hashes in order to positively identify you .
All that being said , most fingerprint scanners used for timeclocks , door locks , etc .
do n't store the data with sufficient precision to use it as credible evidence that the scan was you .
This is part of why they are both non-trivial and pretty easy to fake .
It 's precisely that dual , semi-contradictory nature of fingerprint scanners that make them so useful as a biometric access device .
Of course , you have no idea if the biometric scanners used by this university have that kind of precision , so it 's probably best for both you and the university if they simply modify the policy to state that the precision of data the devices gather do not and shall not be able to qualify as proof of identity of in a court of law .
Then you 're clear .
Your biometric data at that point has the same significance as an ID badge .
Any use of that data as evidence must be corroborated .
It might not have been such a good idea to contact a paper or other news outlet unless the university refused to clarify their agreement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, to those people who make the declaration "Don't be so paranoid, they can take your fingerprints from a door handle or a cup", I retort that you should then have no problem complying with a requirement from an employer/bank/whatever to take your DNA and keep it on file, because obviously they could just get it form a piece of hair or skin you leave around everywhere(welcome to  Gattica!).
That argument is a batch of crap.
The taking of fingerprints is absolutely an invasion of privacy for those who are concerned about malice or undesired use/supeona of the information.
And the people making the argument that a hash or encoding of the fingerprint data makes it impossible to use as evidence doesn't understand that law enforcement, etc.
can fairly easily obtain that hash, then get a second scan from you and compare the hashes in order to positively identify you.
All that being said, most fingerprint scanners used for timeclocks, door locks, etc.
don't store the data with sufficient precision to use it as credible evidence that the scan was you.
This is part of why they are both non-trivial and pretty easy to fake.
It's precisely that dual, semi-contradictory nature of fingerprint scanners that make them so useful as a biometric access device.
Of course, you have no idea if the biometric scanners used by this university have that kind of precision, so it's probably best for both you and the university if they simply modify the policy to state that the precision of data the devices gather do not and shall not be able to qualify as proof of identity of in a court of law.
Then you're clear.
Your biometric data at that point has the same significance as an ID badge.
Any use of that data as evidence must be corroborated.
It might not have been such a good idea to contact a paper or other news outlet unless the university refused to clarify their agreement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215626</id>
	<title>fingerprint spoofing</title>
	<author>UESMark</author>
	<datestamp>1266682440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The methods for crafting a usable but false finger for the purpose of spoofing electronic fingerprint imaging systems are well documented, but the fun part comes when you do some additional google searching. <br>
<a href="http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49525/m1/1/sizes/xl/?q=fingerprint\%20card" title="unt.edu" rel="nofollow"> This is a link to Lee Harvey Oswald's ten card</a> [unt.edu]
<br>
Others are available.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The methods for crafting a usable but false finger for the purpose of spoofing electronic fingerprint imaging systems are well documented , but the fun part comes when you do some additional google searching .
This is a link to Lee Harvey Oswald 's ten card [ unt.edu ] Others are available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The methods for crafting a usable but false finger for the purpose of spoofing electronic fingerprint imaging systems are well documented, but the fun part comes when you do some additional google searching.
This is a link to Lee Harvey Oswald's ten card [unt.edu]

Others are available.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216324</id>
	<title>What do you do in your work-study?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266689700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok you left out the most pertinent information. What EXACTLY do you do for an organization and what organization is it that requested your fingerprints? If you are in a work-study position where you are working for the government then yeah you should be security checked.</p><p>Your question should reveal more about your job and less about how you got it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok you left out the most pertinent information .
What EXACTLY do you do for an organization and what organization is it that requested your fingerprints ?
If you are in a work-study position where you are working for the government then yeah you should be security checked.Your question should reveal more about your job and less about how you got it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok you left out the most pertinent information.
What EXACTLY do you do for an organization and what organization is it that requested your fingerprints?
If you are in a work-study position where you are working for the government then yeah you should be security checked.Your question should reveal more about your job and less about how you got it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214246</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Correct. It is best to bend over with plenty of lube to anything any employer or potential employer wants from you. Workers rights? Fsck that! They KILL jobs!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sarcasm</p><p>PS. I think it may be time for new unions to start to be formed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Correct .
It is best to bend over with plenty of lube to anything any employer or potential employer wants from you .
Workers rights ?
Fsck that !
They KILL jobs !
/sarcasmPS. I think it may be time for new unions to start to be formed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Correct.
It is best to bend over with plenty of lube to anything any employer or potential employer wants from you.
Workers rights?
Fsck that!
They KILL jobs!
/sarcasmPS. I think it may be time for new unions to start to be formed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215702</id>
	<title>Want a driver's license?</title>
	<author>uncqual</author>
	<datestamp>1266683460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In California, for a long time, you've needed to provide a <a href="http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/obtain\_dl.htm" title="ca.gov">thumbprint</a> [ca.gov] to get a driver's license.
<br> <br>
The time to worry about slippery slopes is when you're at the top, not hurtling down them as we are now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In California , for a long time , you 've needed to provide a thumbprint [ ca.gov ] to get a driver 's license .
The time to worry about slippery slopes is when you 're at the top , not hurtling down them as we are now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In California, for a long time, you've needed to provide a thumbprint [ca.gov] to get a driver's license.
The time to worry about slippery slopes is when you're at the top, not hurtling down them as we are now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</id>
	<title>I recommend...</title>
	<author>pak9rabid</author>
	<datestamp>1266670440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>...that you stop being such a whiney bitch.  So they want your fingerprints to ID you...so what?  What is it that you're worried about that they're going to do with them, other than use them internally for authentication purposes?<p><div class="quote"><p> I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper...</p></div><p>Are you for real?   Other than than the fact that they likely won't give a rats ass about this, you are treading on <i>very</i> thin ice.  I'm not sure what it is you're planning on doing after graduation, but being labeled a well-known whistle-blower isn't going to do you much justice when you're out looking for a job.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...that you stop being such a whiney bitch .
So they want your fingerprints to ID you...so what ?
What is it that you 're worried about that they 're going to do with them , other than use them internally for authentication purposes ?
I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper...Are you for real ?
Other than than the fact that they likely wo n't give a rats ass about this , you are treading on very thin ice .
I 'm not sure what it is you 're planning on doing after graduation , but being labeled a well-known whistle-blower is n't going to do you much justice when you 're out looking for a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...that you stop being such a whiney bitch.
So they want your fingerprints to ID you...so what?
What is it that you're worried about that they're going to do with them, other than use them internally for authentication purposes?
I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper...Are you for real?
Other than than the fact that they likely won't give a rats ass about this, you are treading on very thin ice.
I'm not sure what it is you're planning on doing after graduation, but being labeled a well-known whistle-blower isn't going to do you much justice when you're out looking for a job.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216718</id>
	<title>Re:What else should I do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Start looking for another job..</p></div><p>I  agree, you should quit if you are able to. If the school has a problem, this is probably not the right solution.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Start looking for another job..I agree , you should quit if you are able to .
If the school has a problem , this is probably not the right solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start looking for another job..I  agree, you should quit if you are able to.
If the school has a problem, this is probably not the right solution.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216866</id>
	<title>Fingerprints and privacy?</title>
	<author>brillow</author>
	<datestamp>1266784500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since when is your fingerprint (even an image of it) private information?  Is your hair color private?  Eye color?  What other publicly visible morphology is private?

If fingerprints are so private how come you don't wear gloves everywhere?  You're putting your fingerprints on everything!  Would you put your SSN on everything you touched?

Also, the mere fact that the university does this, and no one cares, indicated that, well, no one cares.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when is your fingerprint ( even an image of it ) private information ?
Is your hair color private ?
Eye color ?
What other publicly visible morphology is private ?
If fingerprints are so private how come you do n't wear gloves everywhere ?
You 're putting your fingerprints on everything !
Would you put your SSN on everything you touched ?
Also , the mere fact that the university does this , and no one cares , indicated that , well , no one cares .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when is your fingerprint (even an image of it) private information?
Is your hair color private?
Eye color?
What other publicly visible morphology is private?
If fingerprints are so private how come you don't wear gloves everywhere?
You're putting your fingerprints on everything!
Would you put your SSN on everything you touched?
Also, the mere fact that the university does this, and no one cares, indicated that, well, no one cares.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214594</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>EightBits</author>
	<datestamp>1266672480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Understood, Mr. Hawke.  However, there is no reason to make it easy as a matter of policy.  If it is made illegal to use fingerprints, then while you may still be able to get my prints, I can also catch you in the act.  This, of course, adds risk to the equation for you.  Merely making this illegal will be enough to deter many employers from attempting it.  It will also make people who want protection more likely to try to find out who's doing this.</p><p>And I agree with some other posters that this isn't really a concern.  I personally don't care if the government has my prints.  But the OP and posters who think you shouldn't work for that employer because of this probably *DO* think it is a problem.  They are the ones who should be fighting it, not running from it.  History has shown that governments and corporations tend to be predatory.  We all know if you run from a predator, it will chase you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Understood , Mr. Hawke. However , there is no reason to make it easy as a matter of policy .
If it is made illegal to use fingerprints , then while you may still be able to get my prints , I can also catch you in the act .
This , of course , adds risk to the equation for you .
Merely making this illegal will be enough to deter many employers from attempting it .
It will also make people who want protection more likely to try to find out who 's doing this.And I agree with some other posters that this is n't really a concern .
I personally do n't care if the government has my prints .
But the OP and posters who think you should n't work for that employer because of this probably * DO * think it is a problem .
They are the ones who should be fighting it , not running from it .
History has shown that governments and corporations tend to be predatory .
We all know if you run from a predator , it will chase you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Understood, Mr. Hawke.  However, there is no reason to make it easy as a matter of policy.
If it is made illegal to use fingerprints, then while you may still be able to get my prints, I can also catch you in the act.
This, of course, adds risk to the equation for you.
Merely making this illegal will be enough to deter many employers from attempting it.
It will also make people who want protection more likely to try to find out who's doing this.And I agree with some other posters that this isn't really a concern.
I personally don't care if the government has my prints.
But the OP and posters who think you shouldn't work for that employer because of this probably *DO* think it is a problem.
They are the ones who should be fighting it, not running from it.
History has shown that governments and corporations tend to be predatory.
We all know if you run from a predator, it will chase you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215726</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>kenj0418</author>
	<datestamp>1266683700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.  This is not a solution.  If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.  If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.</p></div><p>1) Not working there IS how we fight it (if we are so inclined).<br>2) I don't get what the freak-out about your employer having your finger prints is about.  If it was DNA I'm with you - since that reveals personal details I might not want an employer to have.  Fingerprints reveal.... how many fingers I have.  Other than that its just another way to identify that I'm me and not someone pretending to be me.<br>3) This is NOT in its infancy.  Most employees at any brokerage company (and probably many other financial companies) are required to be fingerprinted.  This was the case when I was hired by a mutual fund, 15 years ago, and I'm pretty sure it was a rule that had already been around for a while.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer .
This is not a solution .
If we do n't fight it and win , it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight .
If we think this is a bad idea , it needs to be fought now while it 's still in its infancy.1 ) Not working there IS how we fight it ( if we are so inclined ) .2 ) I do n't get what the freak-out about your employer having your finger prints is about .
If it was DNA I 'm with you - since that reveals personal details I might not want an employer to have .
Fingerprints reveal.... how many fingers I have .
Other than that its just another way to identify that I 'm me and not someone pretending to be me.3 ) This is NOT in its infancy .
Most employees at any brokerage company ( and probably many other financial companies ) are required to be fingerprinted .
This was the case when I was hired by a mutual fund , 15 years ago , and I 'm pretty sure it was a rule that had already been around for a while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.
This is not a solution.
If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.
If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.1) Not working there IS how we fight it (if we are so inclined).2) I don't get what the freak-out about your employer having your finger prints is about.
If it was DNA I'm with you - since that reveals personal details I might not want an employer to have.
Fingerprints reveal.... how many fingers I have.
Other than that its just another way to identify that I'm me and not someone pretending to be me.3) This is NOT in its infancy.
Most employees at any brokerage company (and probably many other financial companies) are required to be fingerprinted.
This was the case when I was hired by a mutual fund, 15 years ago, and I'm pretty sure it was a rule that had already been around for a while.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214256</id>
	<title>fingerprints</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1266670140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Temp companies are doing this as well.  Which to me is a good reason to establish property rights for privacy.  In that case, you would be the sole non-transferable owner of your fingerprint scan among other data and have sole discretion over what is done with it.  They would upon your consent store one single copy of the scan on the device which if copied or otherwise removed for other uses without your consent would now have legal consequences.  The beauty of the concept is that you could also establish similar rights for the contents of mail and internet connections which could possibly address the net neutrality issue as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Temp companies are doing this as well .
Which to me is a good reason to establish property rights for privacy .
In that case , you would be the sole non-transferable owner of your fingerprint scan among other data and have sole discretion over what is done with it .
They would upon your consent store one single copy of the scan on the device which if copied or otherwise removed for other uses without your consent would now have legal consequences .
The beauty of the concept is that you could also establish similar rights for the contents of mail and internet connections which could possibly address the net neutrality issue as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Temp companies are doing this as well.
Which to me is a good reason to establish property rights for privacy.
In that case, you would be the sole non-transferable owner of your fingerprint scan among other data and have sole discretion over what is done with it.
They would upon your consent store one single copy of the scan on the device which if copied or otherwise removed for other uses without your consent would now have legal consequences.
The beauty of the concept is that you could also establish similar rights for the contents of mail and internet connections which could possibly address the net neutrality issue as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214538</id>
	<title>Get used to it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fingerprints and a full background check are becoming required for more and more jobs. The state of Florida fingerprints everyone that handles state funds, works with children, or is in a profession that requires licensing (like doctors and nurses). While geek jobs may be among the last to fall, do not be surprised (especially if you are a government employee or contractor) if you have to give up a real set of your prints someday. So, this set of prints that will remain internal to the biometric machine would be a nice way to get used to the intrusion!</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fingerprints and a full background check are becoming required for more and more jobs .
The state of Florida fingerprints everyone that handles state funds , works with children , or is in a profession that requires licensing ( like doctors and nurses ) .
While geek jobs may be among the last to fall , do not be surprised ( especially if you are a government employee or contractor ) if you have to give up a real set of your prints someday .
So , this set of prints that will remain internal to the biometric machine would be a nice way to get used to the intrusion !
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fingerprints and a full background check are becoming required for more and more jobs.
The state of Florida fingerprints everyone that handles state funds, works with children, or is in a profession that requires licensing (like doctors and nurses).
While geek jobs may be among the last to fall, do not be surprised (especially if you are a government employee or contractor) if you have to give up a real set of your prints someday.
So, this set of prints that will remain internal to the biometric machine would be a nice way to get used to the intrusion!
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217642</id>
	<title>so? it's only a fingerprint profile</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266758640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>at first they came for my fingerprint, and i said who cares?<br>then they came for my iris/retina, and i said who cares?<br>then they came for my colon map, and i said that stings a little.<br>then they came for my dna, and i said wait a minute... but they said it is now the law.</p><p>then they said 'your library book on social-something is overdue, you filthy communist hippy'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>at first they came for my fingerprint , and i said who cares ? then they came for my iris/retina , and i said who cares ? then they came for my colon map , and i said that stings a little.then they came for my dna , and i said wait a minute... but they said it is now the law.then they said 'your library book on social-something is overdue , you filthy communist hippy'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at first they came for my fingerprint, and i said who cares?then they came for my iris/retina, and i said who cares?then they came for my colon map, and i said that stings a little.then they came for my dna, and i said wait a minute... but they said it is now the law.then they said 'your library book on social-something is overdue, you filthy communist hippy'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214604</id>
	<title>Re:For the fossils</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I never thought I'd be considered a fossil at the age of twenty-four.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I never thought I 'd be considered a fossil at the age of twenty-four .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I never thought I'd be considered a fossil at the age of twenty-four.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217108</id>
	<title>Re:Contradictory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266746400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>try actually working for the Federal Government as a student, you get to submit your 10 card to the FBI as a part of your background check... or how bout a coop at a Nuke Power Plant, yet another NRC background check with fingerprints... guess I am screwed!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>try actually working for the Federal Government as a student , you get to submit your 10 card to the FBI as a part of your background check... or how bout a coop at a Nuke Power Plant , yet another NRC background check with fingerprints... guess I am screwed !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>try actually working for the Federal Government as a student, you get to submit your 10 card to the FBI as a part of your background check... or how bout a coop at a Nuke Power Plant, yet another NRC background check with fingerprints... guess I am screwed!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216492</id>
	<title>How funny would it be...</title>
	<author>cjjjer</author>
	<datestamp>1266692400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Searching for the user name BonesSB came up with these two hits, both have to do with pot.  I know that this is a long stretch but lots of people reuse the same user name for multiple sites.  If it is the same user it would make sense that they would be worried about privacy based on the following links.<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=381456&amp;f=221" title="hipforums.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=381456&amp;f=221</a> [hipforums.com] <br> <a href="http://cannabis.com/viewProfile.php?user=Bonessb" title="cannabis.com" rel="nofollow">http://cannabis.com/viewProfile.php?user=Bonessb</a> [cannabis.com] <br> <br>Just saying...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Searching for the user name BonesSB came up with these two hits , both have to do with pot .
I know that this is a long stretch but lots of people reuse the same user name for multiple sites .
If it is the same user it would make sense that they would be worried about privacy based on the following links .
http : //www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php ? t = 381456&amp;f = 221 [ hipforums.com ] http : //cannabis.com/viewProfile.php ? user = Bonessb [ cannabis.com ] Just saying.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Searching for the user name BonesSB came up with these two hits, both have to do with pot.
I know that this is a long stretch but lots of people reuse the same user name for multiple sites.
If it is the same user it would make sense that they would be worried about privacy based on the following links.
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=381456&amp;f=221 [hipforums.com]  http://cannabis.com/viewProfile.php?user=Bonessb [cannabis.com]  Just saying...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214548</id>
	<title>Re:No contradiction.</title>
	<author>Protocol16</author>
	<datestamp>1266672060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yup, exactly correct.

Scanners will store a "hashed" version of your fingerprint based off of an algorithm. It just stores the "fingerprint" as a random string of data.

The more secure versions store the hash on a Smart Card, which you have to authenticate against. The DoD uses this type of system on their ID cards for Contractors, Civilians and Military personnel.

If you're worried about how bad this situation is, you need to watch a specific myth busters episode: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo</a> [youtube.com]

Nothing to worry about, no privacy being broken, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , exactly correct .
Scanners will store a " hashed " version of your fingerprint based off of an algorithm .
It just stores the " fingerprint " as a random string of data .
The more secure versions store the hash on a Smart Card , which you have to authenticate against .
The DoD uses this type of system on their ID cards for Contractors , Civilians and Military personnel .
If you 're worried about how bad this situation is , you need to watch a specific myth busters episode : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = LA4Xx5Noxyo [ youtube.com ] Nothing to worry about , no privacy being broken , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, exactly correct.
Scanners will store a "hashed" version of your fingerprint based off of an algorithm.
It just stores the "fingerprint" as a random string of data.
The more secure versions store the hash on a Smart Card, which you have to authenticate against.
The DoD uses this type of system on their ID cards for Contractors, Civilians and Military personnel.
If you're worried about how bad this situation is, you need to watch a specific myth busters episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo [youtube.com]

Nothing to worry about, no privacy being broken, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216096</id>
	<title>Re:Modern Fingerprint Scanners dont keep prints</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266687540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You seem to be missing the point. This isn't about "stealing" your finger print, this is about having your finger print on file somewhere with your name attached to a certain sequence that can identify you. Yeah, someone could steal your finger print from a piece of trash and put it in their data base, but no one is going around stealing the finger prints of random people. Should someone "find" your finger print they could then take that finger print that would normally be anonymous and check various companies' finger print data bases in order to identify you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You seem to be missing the point .
This is n't about " stealing " your finger print , this is about having your finger print on file somewhere with your name attached to a certain sequence that can identify you .
Yeah , someone could steal your finger print from a piece of trash and put it in their data base , but no one is going around stealing the finger prints of random people .
Should someone " find " your finger print they could then take that finger print that would normally be anonymous and check various companies ' finger print data bases in order to identify you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You seem to be missing the point.
This isn't about "stealing" your finger print, this is about having your finger print on file somewhere with your name attached to a certain sequence that can identify you.
Yeah, someone could steal your finger print from a piece of trash and put it in their data base, but no one is going around stealing the finger prints of random people.
Should someone "find" your finger print they could then take that finger print that would normally be anonymous and check various companies' finger print data bases in order to identify you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214424</id>
	<title>Leave your thumb behind</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266671340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our university requires students to leave their left thumb as the enter the building. They can pick it up as they leave. We only storage it temporarily, and do not make copies of them.</p><p>--dmg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our university requires students to leave their left thumb as the enter the building .
They can pick it up as they leave .
We only storage it temporarily , and do not make copies of them.--dmg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our university requires students to leave their left thumb as the enter the building.
They can pick it up as they leave.
We only storage it temporarily, and do not make copies of them.--dmg</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215790</id>
	<title>Secure biometric login</title>
	<author>wizardofawk</author>
	<datestamp>1266684420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not the image anyway. They store the relative positions of specific details of your print. 2 minutes on Google would have told you this.</p></div><p>Unfortunately this is pretty much the same thing in terms of actual security (see <a href="http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Publications/Fingerprint/FengJain\_FMModel\_ICB09.pdf" title="msu.edu" rel="nofollow">http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Publications/Fingerprint/FengJain\_FMModel\_ICB09.pdf</a> [msu.edu])</p><p>FYI my professor happens to make exactly what you are looking for. In a nutshell, we create a non-invertible biometric template. You can think of it as a kind of "fingerprint hash". If the server is ever compromised there is no way to recover the fingerprint. Plus it's managed like a public key infrastructure, so you can actually revoke it if it's lost / stolen. Here are some of the papers he's written on this technology:</p><p>
<a href="http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/Scheirer-Boult-bipartite-ICB2009.pdf" title="uccs.edu" rel="nofollow">http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/Scheirer-Boult-bipartite-ICB2009.pdf</a> [uccs.edu] <br>
<a href="http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/biocrypt-scheirer-boult-biosymp2008.pdf" title="uccs.edu" rel="nofollow">http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/biocrypt-scheirer-boult-biosymp2008.pdf</a> [uccs.edu]
</p><p>The company he runs has already created a secure biometric login system which uses these secure "biotopes" to automatically log time tracker entries (basically a secure biometric punchcard system). If you have any questions, please contact my professor:</p><p>
Dr. Terry Boult &lt; tboult AT vast.uccs.edu &gt;
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not the image anyway .
They store the relative positions of specific details of your print .
2 minutes on Google would have told you this.Unfortunately this is pretty much the same thing in terms of actual security ( see http : //biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Publications/Fingerprint/FengJain \ _FMModel \ _ICB09.pdf [ msu.edu ] ) FYI my professor happens to make exactly what you are looking for .
In a nutshell , we create a non-invertible biometric template .
You can think of it as a kind of " fingerprint hash " .
If the server is ever compromised there is no way to recover the fingerprint .
Plus it 's managed like a public key infrastructure , so you can actually revoke it if it 's lost / stolen .
Here are some of the papers he 's written on this technology : http : //vast.uccs.edu/ ~ tboult/PAPERS/Scheirer-Boult-bipartite-ICB2009.pdf [ uccs.edu ] http : //vast.uccs.edu/ ~ tboult/PAPERS/biocrypt-scheirer-boult-biosymp2008.pdf [ uccs.edu ] The company he runs has already created a secure biometric login system which uses these secure " biotopes " to automatically log time tracker entries ( basically a secure biometric punchcard system ) .
If you have any questions , please contact my professor : Dr. Terry Boult</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not the image anyway.
They store the relative positions of specific details of your print.
2 minutes on Google would have told you this.Unfortunately this is pretty much the same thing in terms of actual security (see http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Publications/Fingerprint/FengJain\_FMModel\_ICB09.pdf [msu.edu])FYI my professor happens to make exactly what you are looking for.
In a nutshell, we create a non-invertible biometric template.
You can think of it as a kind of "fingerprint hash".
If the server is ever compromised there is no way to recover the fingerprint.
Plus it's managed like a public key infrastructure, so you can actually revoke it if it's lost / stolen.
Here are some of the papers he's written on this technology:
http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/Scheirer-Boult-bipartite-ICB2009.pdf [uccs.edu] 
http://vast.uccs.edu/~tboult/PAPERS/biocrypt-scheirer-boult-biosymp2008.pdf [uccs.edu]
The company he runs has already created a secure biometric login system which uses these secure "biotopes" to automatically log time tracker entries (basically a secure biometric punchcard system).
If you have any questions, please contact my professor:
Dr. Terry Boult 

	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215894</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266685440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remember getting fingerprinted when I was in grammar school back in the 70s and my wife does as well. I have yet to hear any stories at all about how that was detrimental to anyone's lives. I got fingerprinted again when I got my license, and again when I joined the military.</p><p>I believe BonesSB is suffering from a bad case of paranoia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember getting fingerprinted when I was in grammar school back in the 70s and my wife does as well .
I have yet to hear any stories at all about how that was detrimental to anyone 's lives .
I got fingerprinted again when I got my license , and again when I joined the military.I believe BonesSB is suffering from a bad case of paranoia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember getting fingerprinted when I was in grammar school back in the 70s and my wife does as well.
I have yet to hear any stories at all about how that was detrimental to anyone's lives.
I got fingerprinted again when I got my license, and again when I joined the military.I believe BonesSB is suffering from a bad case of paranoia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215232</id>
	<title>Re:Contradictory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266678180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am on federal work study right now and I have not had to submit my fingerprints for anything. You have a few options.</p><p>Accept that this is the way they track work study hours.</p><p>If you can afford it and the privacy concerns are too compelling, decline the work and let them know why in a formal letter. It may go directly to the waste bin but at least you made your reasons known.</p><p>Lastly, you can try to change the policy. Contact your student senate for some backing as they're the most likely to listen, although not the most likely to have power to change it. A couple of suggestions: Switch from bio-informatics scanning methods to plain old bar code badges, RFID chips or paper timecards.</p><p>My school does work study timecards on paper. It's probably the most likely to be abused, but it is convenient for everyone. I'd be more than happy to use an RFID token or bar code badge for clocking in and out. Wouldn't work very well for my specific job, considering I work from home, but in theory I would accept either.</p><p>Your ability to change the policy by force is pretty limited. Employment rights(especially regarding privacy) vary by state when it comes to work study. You could try to contact your local department of labor but it's unlikely they will give you anything other than a headache.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am on federal work study right now and I have not had to submit my fingerprints for anything .
You have a few options.Accept that this is the way they track work study hours.If you can afford it and the privacy concerns are too compelling , decline the work and let them know why in a formal letter .
It may go directly to the waste bin but at least you made your reasons known.Lastly , you can try to change the policy .
Contact your student senate for some backing as they 're the most likely to listen , although not the most likely to have power to change it .
A couple of suggestions : Switch from bio-informatics scanning methods to plain old bar code badges , RFID chips or paper timecards.My school does work study timecards on paper .
It 's probably the most likely to be abused , but it is convenient for everyone .
I 'd be more than happy to use an RFID token or bar code badge for clocking in and out .
Would n't work very well for my specific job , considering I work from home , but in theory I would accept either.Your ability to change the policy by force is pretty limited .
Employment rights ( especially regarding privacy ) vary by state when it comes to work study .
You could try to contact your local department of labor but it 's unlikely they will give you anything other than a headache .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am on federal work study right now and I have not had to submit my fingerprints for anything.
You have a few options.Accept that this is the way they track work study hours.If you can afford it and the privacy concerns are too compelling, decline the work and let them know why in a formal letter.
It may go directly to the waste bin but at least you made your reasons known.Lastly, you can try to change the policy.
Contact your student senate for some backing as they're the most likely to listen, although not the most likely to have power to change it.
A couple of suggestions: Switch from bio-informatics scanning methods to plain old bar code badges, RFID chips or paper timecards.My school does work study timecards on paper.
It's probably the most likely to be abused, but it is convenient for everyone.
I'd be more than happy to use an RFID token or bar code badge for clocking in and out.
Wouldn't work very well for my specific job, considering I work from home, but in theory I would accept either.Your ability to change the policy by force is pretty limited.
Employment rights(especially regarding privacy) vary by state when it comes to work study.
You could try to contact your local department of labor but it's unlikely they will give you anything other than a headache.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214410</id>
	<title>Suck up and deal</title>
	<author>AssTard</author>
	<datestamp>1266671220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Serious, you leave your fingerprints everywhere you go.  You have no right to privacy on them.
Get a fucking grip.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Serious , you leave your fingerprints everywhere you go .
You have no right to privacy on them .
Get a fucking grip .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Serious, you leave your fingerprints everywhere you go.
You have no right to privacy on them.
Get a fucking grip.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215428</id>
	<title>Yes and no</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266679920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On the one hand (pun intended), I understand that if your employer has access control, everyone need to submit to it, otherwise it doesn't make much sense. Ditto if they use one system to record 'attendance', they won't set up a different system for students. That's part of the work experience you're getting, and submitting to it as a student is no worse than having to submit to it as a regular worker. Fingerprint scanners are very convenient for everyone: no card to lose, code to forget, no possibility of cheating...</p><p>On the other hand, yes, it's a bit scary, especially since you've got to assume that any data collected is neither safe nor secure, and will end up is with the worst possible people. Don't be swayed by the argument that the system only stores verification points: if the system is effective, this representation of your prints is as good as the real thing (otherwise the system is useless).</p><p>I'm not sure having a hissy fit about it is any use, and it WILL hurt you with future employers. If it's that important to you, find another employer. And check beforehand, next time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On the one hand ( pun intended ) , I understand that if your employer has access control , everyone need to submit to it , otherwise it does n't make much sense .
Ditto if they use one system to record 'attendance ' , they wo n't set up a different system for students .
That 's part of the work experience you 're getting , and submitting to it as a student is no worse than having to submit to it as a regular worker .
Fingerprint scanners are very convenient for everyone : no card to lose , code to forget , no possibility of cheating...On the other hand , yes , it 's a bit scary , especially since you 've got to assume that any data collected is neither safe nor secure , and will end up is with the worst possible people .
Do n't be swayed by the argument that the system only stores verification points : if the system is effective , this representation of your prints is as good as the real thing ( otherwise the system is useless ) .I 'm not sure having a hissy fit about it is any use , and it WILL hurt you with future employers .
If it 's that important to you , find another employer .
And check beforehand , next time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the one hand (pun intended), I understand that if your employer has access control, everyone need to submit to it, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.
Ditto if they use one system to record 'attendance', they won't set up a different system for students.
That's part of the work experience you're getting, and submitting to it as a student is no worse than having to submit to it as a regular worker.
Fingerprint scanners are very convenient for everyone: no card to lose, code to forget, no possibility of cheating...On the other hand, yes, it's a bit scary, especially since you've got to assume that any data collected is neither safe nor secure, and will end up is with the worst possible people.
Don't be swayed by the argument that the system only stores verification points: if the system is effective, this representation of your prints is as good as the real thing (otherwise the system is useless).I'm not sure having a hissy fit about it is any use, and it WILL hurt you with future employers.
If it's that important to you, find another employer.
And check beforehand, next time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215902</id>
	<title>Comes with jobs, sometimes..</title>
	<author>therealobsideus</author>
	<datestamp>1266685560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A lot of companies use integrated suites of hardware/software for timekeeping purposes - a prime example would be Kronos.  It does help lower costs on average, but I must say I hate the software part of it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of companies use integrated suites of hardware/software for timekeeping purposes - a prime example would be Kronos .
It does help lower costs on average , but I must say I hate the software part of it : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of companies use integrated suites of hardware/software for timekeeping purposes - a prime example would be Kronos.
It does help lower costs on average, but I must say I hate the software part of it :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218322</id>
	<title>Nichol Draper</title>
	<author>nicholdraper</author>
	<datestamp>1266766620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nichol Draper, yes I post under my real name, my finger prints are on file in California.  My mother had a day care center and I was finger printed and put on file when I was a teenager.  My name, address and phone number are in the phone book.  My name is in the patent database on two patents.  My wedding certificate in online in California.  Code I've written is on numerous sites and registered in the Library of Congress.  I could go on and on.  Google me and you will find even more links including my web site.  This life's about getting noticed.  If you are afraid of getting your finger prints into a private database, something is wrong with you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nichol Draper , yes I post under my real name , my finger prints are on file in California .
My mother had a day care center and I was finger printed and put on file when I was a teenager .
My name , address and phone number are in the phone book .
My name is in the patent database on two patents .
My wedding certificate in online in California .
Code I 've written is on numerous sites and registered in the Library of Congress .
I could go on and on .
Google me and you will find even more links including my web site .
This life 's about getting noticed .
If you are afraid of getting your finger prints into a private database , something is wrong with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nichol Draper, yes I post under my real name, my finger prints are on file in California.
My mother had a day care center and I was finger printed and put on file when I was a teenager.
My name, address and phone number are in the phone book.
My name is in the patent database on two patents.
My wedding certificate in online in California.
Code I've written is on numerous sites and registered in the Library of Congress.
I could go on and on.
Google me and you will find even more links including my web site.
This life's about getting noticed.
If you are afraid of getting your finger prints into a private database, something is wrong with you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218900</id>
	<title>Easy solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266772440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just give them the finger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just give them the finger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just give them the finger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214262</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Indiana Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1266670140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Biometric time clocks can be surprisingly <a href="http://www.chinavasion.com/product\_info.php/pName/fingerprint-time-attendance-access-system-with-data-recording/" title="chinavasion.com" rel="nofollow">cheap</a> [chinavasion.com]. Mind you, you probably get what you pay for...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Biometric time clocks can be surprisingly cheap [ chinavasion.com ] .
Mind you , you probably get what you pay for.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biometric time clocks can be surprisingly cheap [chinavasion.com].
Mind you, you probably get what you pay for...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215506</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Nazlfrag</author>
	<datestamp>1266681240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not Brazils problem if your government doesn't represent the will of the people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not Brazils problem if your government does n't represent the will of the people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not Brazils problem if your government doesn't represent the will of the people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214714</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266673620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow!  Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet?</p><p>These days there are these things called "computers" that store information and share it with other "computers" on a thing called a "network".  In fact, there is an international network of computers called "The InterWeb".  Fingerprints and other information stored on one one "computer" can be accessed from other "computers" sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information.</p><p>As of yet, no one has bothered networking my door handle or the can I threw in the trash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow !
Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet ? These days there are these things called " computers " that store information and share it with other " computers " on a thing called a " network " .
In fact , there is an international network of computers called " The InterWeb " .
Fingerprints and other information stored on one one " computer " can be accessed from other " computers " sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information.As of yet , no one has bothered networking my door handle or the can I threw in the trash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow!
Are you an idiot or only playing one on the internet?These days there are these things called "computers" that store information and share it with other "computers" on a thing called a "network".
In fact, there is an international network of computers called "The InterWeb".
Fingerprints and other information stored on one one "computer" can be accessed from other "computers" sometimes without the knowledge or permission in charge of the information.As of yet, no one has bothered networking my door handle or the can I threw in the trash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214208</id>
	<title>It used to be worse</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1266669780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was in High School (loooong before most of you were born) I got a part-time job as "page" at the city library (I put books back on the shelf). In order to get it I had to get a physical, be fingerprinted, and sign a loyalty oath. At least <i>you</i> didn't have to turn and cough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was in High School ( loooong before most of you were born ) I got a part-time job as " page " at the city library ( I put books back on the shelf ) .
In order to get it I had to get a physical , be fingerprinted , and sign a loyalty oath .
At least you did n't have to turn and cough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was in High School (loooong before most of you were born) I got a part-time job as "page" at the city library (I put books back on the shelf).
In order to get it I had to get a physical, be fingerprinted, and sign a loyalty oath.
At least you didn't have to turn and cough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214172</id>
	<title>No contradiction.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I checked into these before. The scanner records a description of your fingerprint, not the image. The description is used to match. It's a form of message digestion.</p><p>Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence. Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement, making them a hard sell as a biometric time card.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I checked into these before .
The scanner records a description of your fingerprint , not the image .
The description is used to match .
It 's a form of message digestion.Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence .
Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement , making them a hard sell as a biometric time card .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I checked into these before.
The scanner records a description of your fingerprint, not the image.
The description is used to match.
It's a form of message digestion.Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence.
Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement, making them a hard sell as a biometric time card.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214700</id>
	<title>Re:Disney World</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266673440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When my girlfriend and I were at Disney World, we assumed it was for the reason of tracking pedophiles or other predators that enter the park (unofficially, of course)...</p><p>Even if that isn't the reason, it would be easy for the police to provide finger prints of known pedophiles in the area after a kid is snatched to see if he entered the park.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When my girlfriend and I were at Disney World , we assumed it was for the reason of tracking pedophiles or other predators that enter the park ( unofficially , of course ) ...Even if that is n't the reason , it would be easy for the police to provide finger prints of known pedophiles in the area after a kid is snatched to see if he entered the park .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When my girlfriend and I were at Disney World, we assumed it was for the reason of tracking pedophiles or other predators that enter the park (unofficially, of course)...Even if that isn't the reason, it would be easy for the police to provide finger prints of known pedophiles in the area after a kid is snatched to see if he entered the park.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217024</id>
	<title>it depend how they do it</title>
	<author>mellon85</author>
	<datestamp>1266744660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the company which i work for, we have biometrical recognition to go in certain place of the building. But there are no privacy concern, only the hash of the fingerprint is stored, and it is in my badge. They don't have any useful data at all, just an SHA256 of an approximation of my finger. So it all depend on how they do it</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the company which i work for , we have biometrical recognition to go in certain place of the building .
But there are no privacy concern , only the hash of the fingerprint is stored , and it is in my badge .
They do n't have any useful data at all , just an SHA256 of an approximation of my finger .
So it all depend on how they do it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the company which i work for, we have biometrical recognition to go in certain place of the building.
But there are no privacy concern, only the hash of the fingerprint is stored, and it is in my badge.
They don't have any useful data at all, just an SHA256 of an approximation of my finger.
So it all depend on how they do it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214738</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266673860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whistle blowers at least expose problems.  This guy's just cyring about nonsense.<br>It would actually be awesome for him to go ahead and make a stink, at least people will know who to hire.  I surely don't want to work with this guy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whistle blowers at least expose problems .
This guy 's just cyring about nonsense.It would actually be awesome for him to go ahead and make a stink , at least people will know who to hire .
I surely do n't want to work with this guy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whistle blowers at least expose problems.
This guy's just cyring about nonsense.It would actually be awesome for him to go ahead and make a stink, at least people will know who to hire.
I surely don't want to work with this guy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</id>
	<title>For the fossils</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a<br>study in black and white of my fingerprints.  And the only reason I'm<br>singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar<br>situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a<br>situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into<br>the shrink wherever you are<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get<br>anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And friends , somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder , is astudy in black and white of my fingerprints .
And the only reason I'msinging you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similarsituation , or you may be in a similar situation , and if your in asituation like that there 's only one thing you can do and that 's walk intothe shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say " Shrink , You can getanything you want , at Alice 's restaurant .
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is astudy in black and white of my fingerprints.
And the only reason I'msinging you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similarsituation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in asituation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk intothe shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can getanything you want, at Alice's restaurant.
".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214182</id>
	<title>Disney World</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At Disney World, they require finger prints when you enter the park if you want to be able to re-enter or switch to another park (if you have a ticket that allows that).  At least the government doesn't directly get them, but who knows what they're doing with them or how long they keep them.  (This was several years ago; I don't know if it's changed.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At Disney World , they require finger prints when you enter the park if you want to be able to re-enter or switch to another park ( if you have a ticket that allows that ) .
At least the government does n't directly get them , but who knows what they 're doing with them or how long they keep them .
( This was several years ago ; I do n't know if it 's changed .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At Disney World, they require finger prints when you enter the park if you want to be able to re-enter or switch to another park (if you have a ticket that allows that).
At least the government doesn't directly get them, but who knows what they're doing with them or how long they keep them.
(This was several years ago; I don't know if it's changed.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218150</id>
	<title>Re:As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1266764760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where I work they had the brilliant idea to do fingerprints for this as well. My ideas where first the famous "Myth Busters" show where they showed this won't work. Next I could see that what would happen would be that managers instead of checking if people were actually there, would start believing the machine that the person was there.</p><p>So I come in at 09:00 and leave at 09:01 and come back at 16:59 to log out at 17:00. Manager sees that I was there.</p><p>Staff not attending is a social problem. Don't solve it with a technical solution.</p><p>Luckily for now they have halted the project. I am sure they will pick it up again in April or so.</p><p>And one question I had was never answered: "So you want a trail of how much extra time people do, which can be used in court, even though at this moment you decide not to pay those extra hours?" As I live in Belgium, the moment they fire me and this system is in place AND I want to  screw them, I can just ask for all those extra hours from the moment I started working there (not from when they started measuring) and they will have to pay me AND pay all the taxes on top of that as well. A quick calculation of 1 hour extra per day: 200 hours or a bit over 1 month per year.</p><p>For them that will be 1 month x 3 per year (double pay and all the extra's on top), or somewhere a So if I work there 4 years they would have a cost of 1 year extra or 25\%. Now there are several hundred people working with us in Belgium.</p><p>And this even goes for all people who leave the company. So would you REALLY want such a thing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where I work they had the brilliant idea to do fingerprints for this as well .
My ideas where first the famous " Myth Busters " show where they showed this wo n't work .
Next I could see that what would happen would be that managers instead of checking if people were actually there , would start believing the machine that the person was there.So I come in at 09 : 00 and leave at 09 : 01 and come back at 16 : 59 to log out at 17 : 00 .
Manager sees that I was there.Staff not attending is a social problem .
Do n't solve it with a technical solution.Luckily for now they have halted the project .
I am sure they will pick it up again in April or so.And one question I had was never answered : " So you want a trail of how much extra time people do , which can be used in court , even though at this moment you decide not to pay those extra hours ?
" As I live in Belgium , the moment they fire me and this system is in place AND I want to screw them , I can just ask for all those extra hours from the moment I started working there ( not from when they started measuring ) and they will have to pay me AND pay all the taxes on top of that as well .
A quick calculation of 1 hour extra per day : 200 hours or a bit over 1 month per year.For them that will be 1 month x 3 per year ( double pay and all the extra 's on top ) , or somewhere a So if I work there 4 years they would have a cost of 1 year extra or 25 \ % .
Now there are several hundred people working with us in Belgium.And this even goes for all people who leave the company .
So would you REALLY want such a thing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where I work they had the brilliant idea to do fingerprints for this as well.
My ideas where first the famous "Myth Busters" show where they showed this won't work.
Next I could see that what would happen would be that managers instead of checking if people were actually there, would start believing the machine that the person was there.So I come in at 09:00 and leave at 09:01 and come back at 16:59 to log out at 17:00.
Manager sees that I was there.Staff not attending is a social problem.
Don't solve it with a technical solution.Luckily for now they have halted the project.
I am sure they will pick it up again in April or so.And one question I had was never answered: "So you want a trail of how much extra time people do, which can be used in court, even though at this moment you decide not to pay those extra hours?
" As I live in Belgium, the moment they fire me and this system is in place AND I want to  screw them, I can just ask for all those extra hours from the moment I started working there (not from when they started measuring) and they will have to pay me AND pay all the taxes on top of that as well.
A quick calculation of 1 hour extra per day: 200 hours or a bit over 1 month per year.For them that will be 1 month x 3 per year (double pay and all the extra's on top), or somewhere a So if I work there 4 years they would have a cost of 1 year extra or 25\%.
Now there are several hundred people working with us in Belgium.And this even goes for all people who leave the company.
So would you REALLY want such a thing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214620</id>
	<title>Re:Pick your battles. Settle for knowing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In our company we have several (maintenance) positions which require you to travel to the US, Japan and other fingerprint-taking countries. And I kid you not, our HR dept. has difficulties finding staff because of that.</p><p>Now this may be a part of our business culture, but you are not the only privacy conscious human being on this planet. Choose wisely!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In our company we have several ( maintenance ) positions which require you to travel to the US , Japan and other fingerprint-taking countries .
And I kid you not , our HR dept .
has difficulties finding staff because of that.Now this may be a part of our business culture , but you are not the only privacy conscious human being on this planet .
Choose wisely !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In our company we have several (maintenance) positions which require you to travel to the US, Japan and other fingerprint-taking countries.
And I kid you not, our HR dept.
has difficulties finding staff because of that.Now this may be a part of our business culture, but you are not the only privacy conscious human being on this planet.
Choose wisely!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215832</id>
	<title>Easier to steal fingerprint than ID card</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266684900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Understand the matching algorithms.  Cast fingerprint.  Work til buddy spoofs your fingerprint [gloves?].  Make biometric scanners a cost prohibitive option and policy will follow.  It'll be fun.  Intermittently punch IT/boss out early, etc.  Distribute what you learn, but be quiet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Understand the matching algorithms .
Cast fingerprint .
Work til buddy spoofs your fingerprint [ gloves ? ] .
Make biometric scanners a cost prohibitive option and policy will follow .
It 'll be fun .
Intermittently punch IT/boss out early , etc .
Distribute what you learn , but be quiet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Understand the matching algorithms.
Cast fingerprint.
Work til buddy spoofs your fingerprint [gloves?].
Make biometric scanners a cost prohibitive option and policy will follow.
It'll be fun.
Intermittently punch IT/boss out early, etc.
Distribute what you learn, but be quiet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215740</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1266683880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Are you for real?</p></div><p>Right. This is a university. Find a tenured professor with an ax to grind who sits on the right committees, then set him loose on this like any sensible person would.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you for real ? Right .
This is a university .
Find a tenured professor with an ax to grind who sits on the right committees , then set him loose on this like any sensible person would .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you for real?Right.
This is a university.
Find a tenured professor with an ax to grind who sits on the right committees, then set him loose on this like any sensible person would.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217682</id>
	<title>Re:Acid</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1266759420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How did this get moderated up?  A weak alkali is much better at removing fingerprints and much less painful than an acid.  I didn't have fingerprints for much of the last two years of studying chemistry at school as a result.  My fingerprints are still quite faint; it took the scanners at the US border four attempts to register mine.  I had to press really hard to get it to admit that I existed at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How did this get moderated up ?
A weak alkali is much better at removing fingerprints and much less painful than an acid .
I did n't have fingerprints for much of the last two years of studying chemistry at school as a result .
My fingerprints are still quite faint ; it took the scanners at the US border four attempts to register mine .
I had to press really hard to get it to admit that I existed at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did this get moderated up?
A weak alkali is much better at removing fingerprints and much less painful than an acid.
I didn't have fingerprints for much of the last two years of studying chemistry at school as a result.
My fingerprints are still quite faint; it took the scanners at the US border four attempts to register mine.
I had to press really hard to get it to admit that I existed at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214282</id>
	<title>When did they first tell you about this ?</title>
	<author>Alain Williams</author>
	<datestamp>1266670320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Was it before you committed to the job ? If it was after - then it is a change to your contract, why do you need to accept it ? Unless it is a change in the law in which case you need to bend over and let yourself be shafted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Was it before you committed to the job ?
If it was after - then it is a change to your contract , why do you need to accept it ?
Unless it is a change in the law in which case you need to bend over and let yourself be shafted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was it before you committed to the job ?
If it was after - then it is a change to your contract, why do you need to accept it ?
Unless it is a change in the law in which case you need to bend over and let yourself be shafted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215340</id>
	<title>YAWN-"I'm contacting newspapers" WTF?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266679080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Deal with it. It's a Federal job and use of fingerprints/biometric info is widespread.  If you apply for a full time job with the Fed you will be fingerprinted and GASP undergo a background check.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Deal with it .
It 's a Federal job and use of fingerprints/biometric info is widespread .
If you apply for a full time job with the Fed you will be fingerprinted and GASP undergo a background check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Deal with it.
It's a Federal job and use of fingerprints/biometric info is widespread.
If you apply for a full time job with the Fed you will be fingerprinted and GASP undergo a background check.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31222202</id>
	<title>Key Word "Federal"</title>
	<author>stewbacca</author>
	<datestamp>1266749040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to supply your fingerprints for all federal jobs. Your choice is to get a non-federal work-study job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to supply your fingerprints for all federal jobs .
Your choice is to get a non-federal work-study job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to supply your fingerprints for all federal jobs.
Your choice is to get a non-federal work-study job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214972</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266676080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My boss is a hot chick, so no problem!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My boss is a hot chick , so no problem !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My boss is a hot chick, so no problem!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31221346</id>
	<title>Don't see the problem in that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266743100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to the US last year on a work and travel program...I worked at an indoor theme park on a famous resort, and I had to have my index finger scanned plus type in my password...to get punched in and out...now...if I had to do that for a theme park...what's wrong with you doing that for tech-related work?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to the US last year on a work and travel program...I worked at an indoor theme park on a famous resort , and I had to have my index finger scanned plus type in my password...to get punched in and out...now...if I had to do that for a theme park...what 's wrong with you doing that for tech-related work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to the US last year on a work and travel program...I worked at an indoor theme park on a famous resort, and I had to have my index finger scanned plus type in my password...to get punched in and out...now...if I had to do that for a theme park...what's wrong with you doing that for tech-related work?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214328</id>
	<title>Do yourself a HUGE favor</title>
	<author>mother\_reincarnated</author>
	<datestamp>1266670560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper, getting the word out to students everywhere"</p><p>Do yourself a favor and hold off on that.  All I can think of while reading your submission is one of those tea baggers holding up a sign that reads "MORAN."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper , getting the word out to students everywhere " Do yourself a favor and hold off on that .
All I can think of while reading your submission is one of those tea baggers holding up a sign that reads " MORAN .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" I am in the process of contacting the local newspaper, getting the word out to students everywhere"Do yourself a favor and hold off on that.
All I can think of while reading your submission is one of those tea baggers holding up a sign that reads "MORAN.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217450</id>
	<title>biometrics is a very weak security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266754020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Biometric data is a weak security, because it cannot be changed.<br>My datacenter uses thumb fingerprint to allow 24-hours access.<br>I tried this: took my thumb fingerprint, printed it on a printer,<br>then put this paper to the datacenter thumb scanner - it let me in.<br>I heard there are more advanced thumb scanners, where<br>paper printed fingerprints would not work,<br>but then people can make "real" fingerprints from an eraser.</p><p>Anyway - anyone can obtain your fingerprints from any object you<br>touched, and then make a an entrance pass from it.<br>Fingerprints is a weak security and should not be used<br>for anything serious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Biometric data is a weak security , because it can not be changed.My datacenter uses thumb fingerprint to allow 24-hours access.I tried this : took my thumb fingerprint , printed it on a printer,then put this paper to the datacenter thumb scanner - it let me in.I heard there are more advanced thumb scanners , wherepaper printed fingerprints would not work,but then people can make " real " fingerprints from an eraser.Anyway - anyone can obtain your fingerprints from any object youtouched , and then make a an entrance pass from it.Fingerprints is a weak security and should not be usedfor anything serious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biometric data is a weak security, because it cannot be changed.My datacenter uses thumb fingerprint to allow 24-hours access.I tried this: took my thumb fingerprint, printed it on a printer,then put this paper to the datacenter thumb scanner - it let me in.I heard there are more advanced thumb scanners, wherepaper printed fingerprints would not work,but then people can make "real" fingerprints from an eraser.Anyway - anyone can obtain your fingerprints from any object youtouched, and then make a an entrance pass from it.Fingerprints is a weak security and should not be usedfor anything serious.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</id>
	<title>Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.  This is not a solution.  If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.  If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer .
This is not a solution .
If we do n't fight it and win , it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight .
If we think this is a bad idea , it needs to be fought now while it 's still in its infancy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.
This is not a solution.
If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.
If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215350</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Macfox</author>
	<datestamp>1266679140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask if the unit is FIPS 201 certified. If it is then you can be certain that no reproducible image leaves the unit. There's no more identifying data than a password or PIN that leaves the unit.</p><p>There are cheaper units on the market that centrally process the finger print image to speed up matching, which is open to abuse.</p><p>Disclaimer: I previously worked for a fingerprint / time-clock manufacture that produced FIPS compliant devices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask if the unit is FIPS 201 certified .
If it is then you can be certain that no reproducible image leaves the unit .
There 's no more identifying data than a password or PIN that leaves the unit.There are cheaper units on the market that centrally process the finger print image to speed up matching , which is open to abuse.Disclaimer : I previously worked for a fingerprint / time-clock manufacture that produced FIPS compliant devices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask if the unit is FIPS 201 certified.
If it is then you can be certain that no reproducible image leaves the unit.
There's no more identifying data than a password or PIN that leaves the unit.There are cheaper units on the market that centrally process the finger print image to speed up matching, which is open to abuse.Disclaimer: I previously worked for a fingerprint / time-clock manufacture that produced FIPS compliant devices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215510</id>
	<title>Finger print</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266681240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have a finger Print time clock at work.  It reads one finger.<br>Take a deep breath.<br>Now let it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have a finger Print time clock at work .
It reads one finger.Take a deep breath.Now let it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have a finger Print time clock at work.
It reads one finger.Take a deep breath.Now let it out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215866</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>PTBarnum</author>
	<datestamp>1266685200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess you better not apply for a job at the King County Medical Examiners Office.  The head of that office paid his employees for sperm samples,</p><p><a href="http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Reports-says-laws-were-broken-in-ME-Office-83308672.html" title="king5.com">http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Reports-says-laws-were-broken-in-ME-Office-83308672.html</a> [king5.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess you better not apply for a job at the King County Medical Examiners Office .
The head of that office paid his employees for sperm samples,http : //www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Reports-says-laws-were-broken-in-ME-Office-83308672.html [ king5.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess you better not apply for a job at the King County Medical Examiners Office.
The head of that office paid his employees for sperm samples,http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Reports-says-laws-were-broken-in-ME-Office-83308672.html [king5.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214406</id>
	<title>I understand</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266671160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I understand your reasoning for being concerned.  However, sometimes there are certain things that we must do in the modern workplace to maintain/continue/engage employment.

Sometimes that means giving up something like your fingerprint.

However, I would recommend that you ask student services and/or your student rights council as to how this information is going to be used or disseminated and if your biometric information will be deleted upon you leaving your work/study position.

But be assured -- this type of information is not uncommon in corporate situations.  Biometrics as an additional authentication mechanism besides passwords (one time or otherwise) are not uncommon.  I've had OTP passwords/Secure Certificates/Biometrics all on one card many times in the workforce.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I understand your reasoning for being concerned .
However , sometimes there are certain things that we must do in the modern workplace to maintain/continue/engage employment .
Sometimes that means giving up something like your fingerprint .
However , I would recommend that you ask student services and/or your student rights council as to how this information is going to be used or disseminated and if your biometric information will be deleted upon you leaving your work/study position .
But be assured -- this type of information is not uncommon in corporate situations .
Biometrics as an additional authentication mechanism besides passwords ( one time or otherwise ) are not uncommon .
I 've had OTP passwords/Secure Certificates/Biometrics all on one card many times in the workforce .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I understand your reasoning for being concerned.
However, sometimes there are certain things that we must do in the modern workplace to maintain/continue/engage employment.
Sometimes that means giving up something like your fingerprint.
However, I would recommend that you ask student services and/or your student rights council as to how this information is going to be used or disseminated and if your biometric information will be deleted upon you leaving your work/study position.
But be assured -- this type of information is not uncommon in corporate situations.
Biometrics as an additional authentication mechanism besides passwords (one time or otherwise) are not uncommon.
I've had OTP passwords/Secure Certificates/Biometrics all on one card many times in the workforce.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216830</id>
	<title>hash</title>
	<author>GregNorc</author>
	<datestamp>1266783960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Systems like this generally don't store an actual image of your fingerprint, just a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash\_function" title="wikipedia.org">hash</a> [wikipedia.org]. Not out of any sense of social justice, just because a hash takes less storage space than an image of your fingerprint.</p><p>So some scenarios you might be imagining might actually be out of the question. For example: no one is going to break into the database, steal your fingerprint, and frame you for a crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Systems like this generally do n't store an actual image of your fingerprint , just a hash [ wikipedia.org ] .
Not out of any sense of social justice , just because a hash takes less storage space than an image of your fingerprint.So some scenarios you might be imagining might actually be out of the question .
For example : no one is going to break into the database , steal your fingerprint , and frame you for a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Systems like this generally don't store an actual image of your fingerprint, just a hash [wikipedia.org].
Not out of any sense of social justice, just because a hash takes less storage space than an image of your fingerprint.So some scenarios you might be imagining might actually be out of the question.
For example: no one is going to break into the database, steal your fingerprint, and frame you for a crime.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214156</id>
	<title>What University</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to get the word out, give out the name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to get the word out , give out the name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to get the word out, give out the name.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216460</id>
	<title>Re:No contradiction.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266691920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence. Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement, making them a hard sell as a biometric time card.</p></div><p>Having worked on biometrics projects (like US Visit), I partially concur. Access control print scanners usually do not provide enough resolution for legal (read criminal justice) uses. Criminal and government systems must have input image resolutions of at least 500 pixels per inch (ppi). Many systems are now 1000 ppi. However, you can easily buy scanners of this quality and use them without having to share the data with anyone.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence .
Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement , making them a hard sell as a biometric time card.Having worked on biometrics projects ( like US Visit ) , I partially concur .
Access control print scanners usually do not provide enough resolution for legal ( read criminal justice ) uses .
Criminal and government systems must have input image resolutions of at least 500 pixels per inch ( ppi ) .
Many systems are now 1000 ppi .
However , you can easily buy scanners of this quality and use them without having to share the data with anyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most scanners of this type do not even record enough detail to qualify as evidence.
Those that do must have their data shared with law enforcement, making them a hard sell as a biometric time card.Having worked on biometrics projects (like US Visit), I partially concur.
Access control print scanners usually do not provide enough resolution for legal (read criminal justice) uses.
Criminal and government systems must have input image resolutions of at least 500 pixels per inch (ppi).
Many systems are now 1000 ppi.
However, you can easily buy scanners of this quality and use them without having to share the data with anyone.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214142</id>
	<title>Contradictory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can think of a better way to write that:</p><blockquote><div><p>Hey look, what's that behind you? It's much more interesting than any contradictions you might see in the following. There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere. No one will have access to your fingerprints. The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it. If you're still reading this, damn.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can think of a better way to write that : Hey look , what 's that behind you ?
It 's much more interesting than any contradictions you might see in the following .
There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere .
No one will have access to your fingerprints .
The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it .
If you 're still reading this , damn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can think of a better way to write that:Hey look, what's that behind you?
It's much more interesting than any contradictions you might see in the following.
There will be no image of your fingerprints anywhere.
No one will have access to your fingerprints.
The machine is storing your prints as a means of identifying who you are when you touch it.
If you're still reading this, damn.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218270</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266766140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second this several areas of the location I work at use FIPS 201 fingerprint scanners. (We will be moving to palm scanners in the future due to maintenance issues with the fingerprint readers sensor pads fouling.)  These units never store an "Image" what is stored is a hash of a subset of patterns in the fingerprint. These units were used from time reporting and access control to the "access restricted" areas.<br>What has probably happened here is someone not familiar with the technical working of the device just used the simple straight forward language of needing your fingerprints. What they need what amounts to the signature of the your fingerprints NOT an image of them. These are very common devices and DO NOT CAPTURE AN IMAGE IN ANYWAY!!!! you are probably getting all bent out of shape over nothing.</p><p>Also note that for some jobs that are security sensitive a fingerprint "work card" is required these tend to be jobs working in care/education of children, care of the elderly, most medical professions, handling large amounts of currency, or any form of law enforcement. There are others in this list but this should give you a good idea of them. In these cases most often here is the states this card is filed with the county offices or state professional license board.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second this several areas of the location I work at use FIPS 201 fingerprint scanners .
( We will be moving to palm scanners in the future due to maintenance issues with the fingerprint readers sensor pads fouling .
) These units never store an " Image " what is stored is a hash of a subset of patterns in the fingerprint .
These units were used from time reporting and access control to the " access restricted " areas.What has probably happened here is someone not familiar with the technical working of the device just used the simple straight forward language of needing your fingerprints .
What they need what amounts to the signature of the your fingerprints NOT an image of them .
These are very common devices and DO NOT CAPTURE AN IMAGE IN ANYWAY ! ! ! !
you are probably getting all bent out of shape over nothing.Also note that for some jobs that are security sensitive a fingerprint " work card " is required these tend to be jobs working in care/education of children , care of the elderly , most medical professions , handling large amounts of currency , or any form of law enforcement .
There are others in this list but this should give you a good idea of them .
In these cases most often here is the states this card is filed with the county offices or state professional license board .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second this several areas of the location I work at use FIPS 201 fingerprint scanners.
(We will be moving to palm scanners in the future due to maintenance issues with the fingerprint readers sensor pads fouling.
)  These units never store an "Image" what is stored is a hash of a subset of patterns in the fingerprint.
These units were used from time reporting and access control to the "access restricted" areas.What has probably happened here is someone not familiar with the technical working of the device just used the simple straight forward language of needing your fingerprints.
What they need what amounts to the signature of the your fingerprints NOT an image of them.
These are very common devices and DO NOT CAPTURE AN IMAGE IN ANYWAY!!!!
you are probably getting all bent out of shape over nothing.Also note that for some jobs that are security sensitive a fingerprint "work card" is required these tend to be jobs working in care/education of children, care of the elderly, most medical professions, handling large amounts of currency, or any form of law enforcement.
There are others in this list but this should give you a good idea of them.
In these cases most often here is the states this card is filed with the county offices or state professional license board.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215146</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266677640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded - let's hope there's a hiring boom in the getting-the-word-out-about-privacy-concerns industry....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded - let 's hope there 's a hiring boom in the getting-the-word-out-about-privacy-concerns industry... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded - let's hope there's a hiring boom in the getting-the-word-out-about-privacy-concerns industry....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215612</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>carp3\_noct3m</author>
	<datestamp>1266682320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the issue is not the technology at hand, but rather the privacy implications of it. What should really be looked into is the privacy policy of the work-place. If it is one of those "We will try to protect your data but can not be help responsible and may share it with third-parties without your consent" situations I would never agree. This is the problem with personal information today, the sharing of information that is your info to other people without proper consent or notification. If someone has a warrant it is not a problem, other than that, I want to know that nobody else will ever obtain this type of data. I have been fingerprinted exactly three times in my life, of which I was still hesitant but had little choice. These were, joining the military, applying for security clearance, and when I got my concealed weapon permit. But at the same time, I am the guy that doesnt have facebook or myspace or twatter and I like to keep my personal info personal, so call me paranoid if you want.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the issue is not the technology at hand , but rather the privacy implications of it .
What should really be looked into is the privacy policy of the work-place .
If it is one of those " We will try to protect your data but can not be help responsible and may share it with third-parties without your consent " situations I would never agree .
This is the problem with personal information today , the sharing of information that is your info to other people without proper consent or notification .
If someone has a warrant it is not a problem , other than that , I want to know that nobody else will ever obtain this type of data .
I have been fingerprinted exactly three times in my life , of which I was still hesitant but had little choice .
These were , joining the military , applying for security clearance , and when I got my concealed weapon permit .
But at the same time , I am the guy that doesnt have facebook or myspace or twatter and I like to keep my personal info personal , so call me paranoid if you want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the issue is not the technology at hand, but rather the privacy implications of it.
What should really be looked into is the privacy policy of the work-place.
If it is one of those "We will try to protect your data but can not be help responsible and may share it with third-parties without your consent" situations I would never agree.
This is the problem with personal information today, the sharing of information that is your info to other people without proper consent or notification.
If someone has a warrant it is not a problem, other than that, I want to know that nobody else will ever obtain this type of data.
I have been fingerprinted exactly three times in my life, of which I was still hesitant but had little choice.
These were, joining the military, applying for security clearance, and when I got my concealed weapon permit.
But at the same time, I am the guy that doesnt have facebook or myspace or twatter and I like to keep my personal info personal, so call me paranoid if you want.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217064</id>
	<title>my take</title>
	<author>Nyder</author>
	<datestamp>1266745560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with finger printing, is it's used mostly for identifying criminals.</p><p>So ya, I might not want to give some "federal work study" my fingerprints because they aren't the most trust worthy of peeps, imo.</p><p>Wonder how many "criminals" or maybe students with expired visas they "catch" this way?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with finger printing , is it 's used mostly for identifying criminals.So ya , I might not want to give some " federal work study " my fingerprints because they are n't the most trust worthy of peeps , imo.Wonder how many " criminals " or maybe students with expired visas they " catch " this way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with finger printing, is it's used mostly for identifying criminals.So ya, I might not want to give some "federal work study" my fingerprints because they aren't the most trust worthy of peeps, imo.Wonder how many "criminals" or maybe students with expired visas they "catch" this way?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215082</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Rayonic</author>
	<datestamp>1266677100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Apparently if you visit Brazil, Europeans and Brazilians go through one line.  Americans, we can all step over <i>here</i> to get fingerprinted, retina scanned, etc.</p><p>Why?  We do it to them, so they do it back.  F.</p></div><p>Of course it backfires, since the American-only line tends to be shorter.  So even with the additional data gathering, they get through faster.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently if you visit Brazil , Europeans and Brazilians go through one line .
Americans , we can all step over here to get fingerprinted , retina scanned , etc.Why ?
We do it to them , so they do it back .
F.Of course it backfires , since the American-only line tends to be shorter .
So even with the additional data gathering , they get through faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently if you visit Brazil, Europeans and Brazilians go through one line.
Americans, we can all step over here to get fingerprinted, retina scanned, etc.Why?
We do it to them, so they do it back.
F.Of course it backfires, since the American-only line tends to be shorter.
So even with the additional data gathering, they get through faster.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266682500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, that is right. This is due to Brazilian Constitution, which says that all diplomacy must be reciprocal. E.g., for every country which demands a visa from Brazilian people, Brazil demands a visa for their people to get in Brazil. If the government, the Federal Police or the airport authority decides to do any different, they will get sued.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , that is right .
This is due to Brazilian Constitution , which says that all diplomacy must be reciprocal .
E.g. , for every country which demands a visa from Brazilian people , Brazil demands a visa for their people to get in Brazil .
If the government , the Federal Police or the airport authority decides to do any different , they will get sued .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, that is right.
This is due to Brazilian Constitution, which says that all diplomacy must be reciprocal.
E.g., for every country which demands a visa from Brazilian people, Brazil demands a visa for their people to get in Brazil.
If the government, the Federal Police or the airport authority decides to do any different, they will get sued.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214698</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Mystra\_x64</author>
	<datestamp>1266673440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>However it doesn't mean someone should make it easier for you to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>However it does n't mean someone should make it easier for you to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However it doesn't mean someone should make it easier for you to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31220236</id>
	<title>mcdonalds is hiring</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266779940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>haven't had a job before eh? seriously, welcome to the work force. employers can require you to do all sorts of things. it's perfectly legal because you are not required to work for them. there are some restrictions to that of course but fingerprinting, drug tests, background checks, etc are all well within the limits.</p><p>so yeah, mcdonalds is hiring, and they don't require fingerprinting. there is almost certainly a local branch in your town. that, or suck it up and enjoy your federally funded student do-nothing-and-get-paid job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>have n't had a job before eh ?
seriously , welcome to the work force .
employers can require you to do all sorts of things .
it 's perfectly legal because you are not required to work for them .
there are some restrictions to that of course but fingerprinting , drug tests , background checks , etc are all well within the limits.so yeah , mcdonalds is hiring , and they do n't require fingerprinting .
there is almost certainly a local branch in your town .
that , or suck it up and enjoy your federally funded student do-nothing-and-get-paid job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>haven't had a job before eh?
seriously, welcome to the work force.
employers can require you to do all sorts of things.
it's perfectly legal because you are not required to work for them.
there are some restrictions to that of course but fingerprinting, drug tests, background checks, etc are all well within the limits.so yeah, mcdonalds is hiring, and they don't require fingerprinting.
there is almost certainly a local branch in your town.
that, or suck it up and enjoy your federally funded student do-nothing-and-get-paid job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214706</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1266673560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA...</p></div></blockquote><p>Then just hand him/her your keyboard.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA...Then just hand him/her your keyboard .
     </tokentext>
<sentencetext>when your boss starts asking to personally take samples of your reproductive DNA...Then just hand him/her your keyboard.
     
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215918</id>
	<title>Re:Middle schools in England...</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1266685800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Because a card or money is "too hard". </i> <br> <br>
Or more likely, more easily stolen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because a card or money is " too hard " .
Or more likely , more easily stolen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because a card or money is "too hard".
Or more likely, more easily stolen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214364</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215970</id>
	<title>Re:Modern Fingerprint Scanners dont keep prints</title>
	<author>synaptik</author>
	<datestamp>1266686400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that. Not a copy of your fingerprint itself.</p> </div><p>That's a superfluous distinction.   *Everything* stored in a computer is a 'numeric value'.  Once in computer memory, a 100x100 image of your fingerprint is indistinguishable from a 10,000 bit number (assuming 1 bit per pixel, for sake of argument.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that .
Not a copy of your fingerprint itself .
That 's a superfluous distinction .
* Everything * stored in a computer is a 'numeric value' .
Once in computer memory , a 100x100 image of your fingerprint is indistinguishable from a 10,000 bit number ( assuming 1 bit per pixel , for sake of argument .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that.
Not a copy of your fingerprint itself.
That's a superfluous distinction.
*Everything* stored in a computer is a 'numeric value'.
Once in computer memory, a 100x100 image of your fingerprint is indistinguishable from a 10,000 bit number (assuming 1 bit per pixel, for sake of argument.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214510</id>
	<title>Re:For the fossils</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266671940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill.  I mean, I wanna, I<br>
wanna kill.  Kill.  I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and<br>
guts and veins in my teeth.  Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,<br>
KILL! KILL!"  And I started jumpin' up and down yelling, "KILL! KILL!" and<br>
he started jumpin' up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down<br>
yelling, "KILL! KILL!"  And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,<br>
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."</htmltext>
<tokenext>And I went up there , I said , " Shrink , I want to kill .
I mean , I wan na , I wan na kill .
Kill. I wan na , I wan na see , I wan na see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth .
Eat dead burnt bodies .
I mean kill , Kill , KILL !
KILL ! " And I started jumpin ' up and down yelling , " KILL !
KILL ! " and he started jumpin ' up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling , " KILL !
KILL ! " And the sargent came over , pinned a medal on me , sent me down the hall , said , " You 're our boy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill.
I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill.
Kill.  I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth.
Eat dead burnt bodies.
I mean kill, Kill,
KILL!
KILL!"  And I started jumpin' up and down yelling, "KILL!
KILL!" and
he started jumpin' up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL!
KILL!"  And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215348</id>
	<title>I was wrong - it's still happening!</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1266679140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to Wikipedia, "Loyalty oaths are still required by the California Constitution for all officials and employees of the government of California".</p><p>Unbelievable!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to Wikipedia , " Loyalty oaths are still required by the California Constitution for all officials and employees of the government of California " .Unbelievable !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to Wikipedia, "Loyalty oaths are still required by the California Constitution for all officials and employees of the government of California".Unbelievable!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214930</id>
	<title>Re:No big deal</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1266675840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For hygiene reasons, you should take your own fingerprint in ink (at home), scan it into your computer, and print it out with a laser printer.  Cut that into a little loop that you can put over a glove and tape it together.  When you arrive at work, put on one of those finger-condoms, put the fingerprint loop over it, and scan that.</p><p>That way you won't have to worry about how many people touched that thing without washing their hands (and after going to the rest room) since the last time the device was cleaned.  As an added bonus, if Mythbusters are to be believed, there's a good chance that you'll get a <em>better</em> read off the paper than your hand...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For hygiene reasons , you should take your own fingerprint in ink ( at home ) , scan it into your computer , and print it out with a laser printer .
Cut that into a little loop that you can put over a glove and tape it together .
When you arrive at work , put on one of those finger-condoms , put the fingerprint loop over it , and scan that.That way you wo n't have to worry about how many people touched that thing without washing their hands ( and after going to the rest room ) since the last time the device was cleaned .
As an added bonus , if Mythbusters are to be believed , there 's a good chance that you 'll get a better read off the paper than your hand.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For hygiene reasons, you should take your own fingerprint in ink (at home), scan it into your computer, and print it out with a laser printer.
Cut that into a little loop that you can put over a glove and tape it together.
When you arrive at work, put on one of those finger-condoms, put the fingerprint loop over it, and scan that.That way you won't have to worry about how many people touched that thing without washing their hands (and after going to the rest room) since the last time the device was cleaned.
As an added bonus, if Mythbusters are to be believed, there's a good chance that you'll get a better read off the paper than your hand...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215994</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266686700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My recommendation is that pak9rabid go fuck him/her-self.</p><p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=998565&amp;rec=1&amp;srcabs=667622#" title="ssrn.com" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=998565&amp;rec=1&amp;srcabs=667622#</a> [ssrn.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My recommendation is that pak9rabid go fuck him/her-self.http : //papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ? abstract \ _id = 998565&amp;rec = 1&amp;srcabs = 667622 # [ ssrn.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My recommendation is that pak9rabid go fuck him/her-self.http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=998565&amp;rec=1&amp;srcabs=667622# [ssrn.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214626</id>
	<title>Re:I recommend...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is the system is one that uses a identifier that cannot be changed. In a badge based system, if the badge is lost or there is clerical error when entering data then order a new badge. How does one obtain new fingerprints?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is the system is one that uses a identifier that can not be changed .
In a badge based system , if the badge is lost or there is clerical error when entering data then order a new badge .
How does one obtain new fingerprints ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is the system is one that uses a identifier that cannot be changed.
In a badge based system, if the badge is lost or there is clerical error when entering data then order a new badge.
How does one obtain new fingerprints?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216036</id>
	<title>The government already has them</title>
	<author>Bruha</author>
	<datestamp>1266687120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Along with your DNA the government at one time when you were a child would of had you fingerprinted as part of those "Find your kidnapped baby' scares.</p><p>Get over it, us military folks have our DNA, teeth scans, and fingerprints all taken on joining.  It's a federal job.  If you dont like it go get another work study, they'll want a piss test probably.  Worried about losing urine??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Along with your DNA the government at one time when you were a child would of had you fingerprinted as part of those " Find your kidnapped baby ' scares.Get over it , us military folks have our DNA , teeth scans , and fingerprints all taken on joining .
It 's a federal job .
If you dont like it go get another work study , they 'll want a piss test probably .
Worried about losing urine ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Along with your DNA the government at one time when you were a child would of had you fingerprinted as part of those "Find your kidnapped baby' scares.Get over it, us military folks have our DNA, teeth scans, and fingerprints all taken on joining.
It's a federal job.
If you dont like it go get another work study, they'll want a piss test probably.
Worried about losing urine?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215824</id>
	<title>MythBusters beat fingerprint security system</title>
	<author>AeiwiMaster</author>
	<datestamp>1266684780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>try to send them this video.<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>try to send them this video.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = LA4Xx5Noxyo [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>try to send them this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215812</id>
	<title>It's nothing</title>
	<author>Hutz</author>
	<datestamp>1266684660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a biometric time clock that is used to prevent "Buddy Punching" or having your friend punch you in or out of a job.  The system stores a mathematical algorithm that it can use to make sure you are who you say you are.  The owner of the clock cannot see your fingerprint, nor can they download it or use it in any way.  If you see anything other than an electronic scanner and they say it is for anything other than the time clock, you need to look into it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a biometric time clock that is used to prevent " Buddy Punching " or having your friend punch you in or out of a job .
The system stores a mathematical algorithm that it can use to make sure you are who you say you are .
The owner of the clock can not see your fingerprint , nor can they download it or use it in any way .
If you see anything other than an electronic scanner and they say it is for anything other than the time clock , you need to look into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a biometric time clock that is used to prevent "Buddy Punching" or having your friend punch you in or out of a job.
The system stores a mathematical algorithm that it can use to make sure you are who you say you are.
The owner of the clock cannot see your fingerprint, nor can they download it or use it in any way.
If you see anything other than an electronic scanner and they say it is for anything other than the time clock, you need to look into it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215732</id>
	<title>explain it as an issue of human dignity</title>
	<author>JimBobJoe</author>
	<datestamp>1266683700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you should definitely make sure to explain to others that this is an issue of human dignity and not necessarily "privacy (because people will try to find what the privacy violation is and will get confused if they can't find one, if their personal values aren't bothered by one thing or another.)</p><p>Your sense of human dignity is higher--you feel that it is inappropriate to fingerprint individuals who are not guilty of a crime, that somehow fingerprinting is disrespectful or inhuman. That you don't want to be a number on file, because it affects your sense of humanity. I'd cite the example of how the US Visit program caused a significant drop in how many visitors were coming to the US--visitors, who, understandably, didn't want to feel like a criminal just to come to the US and visit NYC.</p><p>It's worth following up with this even if you decide not to go with the job.</p><p>If you decide to go with the job, hopefully the employer is reasonable and will let you log in without your fingerprint, which the machines are damn well capable of. If not, and you want to offer up some passive resistance, say you have eczema. I personally actually have a case of eczema, which wipes out the fingerprints on a couple of fingers. You could possibly use an industrial solution of an AHA/BHA hydroxy acid (cosmetology sites may carry things like that, like 25\% glycolic acid) to hyper exfoliate your skin and then use a rough pumice or other type of grimy surface to finish off the prints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you should definitely make sure to explain to others that this is an issue of human dignity and not necessarily " privacy ( because people will try to find what the privacy violation is and will get confused if they ca n't find one , if their personal values are n't bothered by one thing or another .
) Your sense of human dignity is higher--you feel that it is inappropriate to fingerprint individuals who are not guilty of a crime , that somehow fingerprinting is disrespectful or inhuman .
That you do n't want to be a number on file , because it affects your sense of humanity .
I 'd cite the example of how the US Visit program caused a significant drop in how many visitors were coming to the US--visitors , who , understandably , did n't want to feel like a criminal just to come to the US and visit NYC.It 's worth following up with this even if you decide not to go with the job.If you decide to go with the job , hopefully the employer is reasonable and will let you log in without your fingerprint , which the machines are damn well capable of .
If not , and you want to offer up some passive resistance , say you have eczema .
I personally actually have a case of eczema , which wipes out the fingerprints on a couple of fingers .
You could possibly use an industrial solution of an AHA/BHA hydroxy acid ( cosmetology sites may carry things like that , like 25 \ % glycolic acid ) to hyper exfoliate your skin and then use a rough pumice or other type of grimy surface to finish off the prints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you should definitely make sure to explain to others that this is an issue of human dignity and not necessarily "privacy (because people will try to find what the privacy violation is and will get confused if they can't find one, if their personal values aren't bothered by one thing or another.
)Your sense of human dignity is higher--you feel that it is inappropriate to fingerprint individuals who are not guilty of a crime, that somehow fingerprinting is disrespectful or inhuman.
That you don't want to be a number on file, because it affects your sense of humanity.
I'd cite the example of how the US Visit program caused a significant drop in how many visitors were coming to the US--visitors, who, understandably, didn't want to feel like a criminal just to come to the US and visit NYC.It's worth following up with this even if you decide not to go with the job.If you decide to go with the job, hopefully the employer is reasonable and will let you log in without your fingerprint, which the machines are damn well capable of.
If not, and you want to offer up some passive resistance, say you have eczema.
I personally actually have a case of eczema, which wipes out the fingerprints on a couple of fingers.
You could possibly use an industrial solution of an AHA/BHA hydroxy acid (cosmetology sites may carry things like that, like 25\% glycolic acid) to hyper exfoliate your skin and then use a rough pumice or other type of grimy surface to finish off the prints.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Ihmhi</author>
	<datestamp>1266675960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That seems a bit unfair. It's our politicians, not the majority of our people, that make people jump through those hoops.</p><p>How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That seems a bit unfair .
It 's our politicians , not the majority of our people , that make people jump through those hoops.How many average American citizens say , " Oh , I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That seems a bit unfair.
It's our politicians, not the majority of our people, that make people jump through those hoops.How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217676</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>tburkhol</author>
	<datestamp>1266759300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?"</p></div><p>My evening news never has any trouble finding someone to interview who will say that the latest TSA restriction "is inconvenient, but it makes me feel safer flying."  TSA has introduced about 1-2 new "theatrical" restrictions each year since 2002, and I can't recall any of them being rescinded.  Oh, maybe nail clippers.  That speaks of a weak or ineffective public backlash and suggests that average American citizens are perfectly happy with the security and don't consider it theater at all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many average American citizens say , " Oh , I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us ?
" My evening news never has any trouble finding someone to interview who will say that the latest TSA restriction " is inconvenient , but it makes me feel safer flying .
" TSA has introduced about 1-2 new " theatrical " restrictions each year since 2002 , and I ca n't recall any of them being rescinded .
Oh , maybe nail clippers .
That speaks of a weak or ineffective public backlash and suggests that average American citizens are perfectly happy with the security and do n't consider it theater at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many average American citizens say, "Oh, I just love all this security theater that ultimately does nothing to protect us?
"My evening news never has any trouble finding someone to interview who will say that the latest TSA restriction "is inconvenient, but it makes me feel safer flying.
"  TSA has introduced about 1-2 new "theatrical" restrictions each year since 2002, and I can't recall any of them being rescinded.
Oh, maybe nail clippers.
That speaks of a weak or ineffective public backlash and suggests that average American citizens are perfectly happy with the security and don't consider it theater at all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214352</id>
	<title>GENTETIC Testing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait till they start genetically testing everyone with DNA requests for security purposes.</p><p>Thats when the fun will begin.</p><p>Expect to be denied loans based on life span and proclivities to all sorts of diseases they find you will contract.</p><p>Effectively they can prevent your student loans/grants to save money as they certainly do not want to invest in anyone who won't be around long enough to pay back that 100K.</p><p>All sorts of monkey business is planned.  If you have a kid right now, the blood of every baby born in US hospitals MUST be saved by the department of homeland security for a genetic test for identification.</p><p>-Hack</p><p>PS: NO, they DO NOT tell you about that last part.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait till they start genetically testing everyone with DNA requests for security purposes.Thats when the fun will begin.Expect to be denied loans based on life span and proclivities to all sorts of diseases they find you will contract.Effectively they can prevent your student loans/grants to save money as they certainly do not want to invest in anyone who wo n't be around long enough to pay back that 100K.All sorts of monkey business is planned .
If you have a kid right now , the blood of every baby born in US hospitals MUST be saved by the department of homeland security for a genetic test for identification.-HackPS : NO , they DO NOT tell you about that last part .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait till they start genetically testing everyone with DNA requests for security purposes.Thats when the fun will begin.Expect to be denied loans based on life span and proclivities to all sorts of diseases they find you will contract.Effectively they can prevent your student loans/grants to save money as they certainly do not want to invest in anyone who won't be around long enough to pay back that 100K.All sorts of monkey business is planned.
If you have a kid right now, the blood of every baby born in US hospitals MUST be saved by the department of homeland security for a genetic test for identification.-HackPS: NO, they DO NOT tell you about that last part.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214544</id>
	<title>Think about the past!</title>
	<author>bmacs27</author>
	<datestamp>1266672060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The horror!  You wouldn't want someone else punching in or out for you!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The horror !
You would n't want someone else punching in or out for you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The horror!
You wouldn't want someone else punching in or out for you!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217160</id>
	<title>Re:biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>lordholm</author>
	<datestamp>1266747960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Put in a rotating gate that only let one person pass at a time, then it will be more or less impossible to swipe two badges at the same time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put in a rotating gate that only let one person pass at a time , then it will be more or less impossible to swipe two badges at the same time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put in a rotating gate that only let one person pass at a time, then it will be more or less impossible to swipe two badges at the same time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215240</id>
	<title>Re:Do yourself a HUGE favor</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1266678300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every think the tea baggers with signs that say "MORAN" might mean this guy:</p><p><a href="http://moran.house.gov/" title="house.gov">http://moran.house.gov/</a> [house.gov]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every think the tea baggers with signs that say " MORAN " might mean this guy : http : //moran.house.gov/ [ house.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every think the tea baggers with signs that say "MORAN" might mean this guy:http://moran.house.gov/ [house.gov]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214328</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215438</id>
	<title>Re:As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>MacroSlopp</author>
	<datestamp>1266680220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Governments illegally read email and tap telephone calls.  So don't worry about being assured that your privacy is protected.... it isn't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Governments illegally read email and tap telephone calls .
So do n't worry about being assured that your privacy is protected.... it is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Governments illegally read email and tap telephone calls.
So don't worry about being assured that your privacy is protected.... it isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214636</id>
	<title>what do you expect?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"What else should I do?"  Well, if you don't want to work there, you might consider applying elsewhere.</p><p>If you do want to work there, you might want to reconsider alarming the news media and anybody else who'll listen.</p><p>There are consequences to your choice.  You'll find it's like that a lot in life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" What else should I do ?
" Well , if you do n't want to work there , you might consider applying elsewhere.If you do want to work there , you might want to reconsider alarming the news media and anybody else who 'll listen.There are consequences to your choice .
You 'll find it 's like that a lot in life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"What else should I do?
"  Well, if you don't want to work there, you might consider applying elsewhere.If you do want to work there, you might want to reconsider alarming the news media and anybody else who'll listen.There are consequences to your choice.
You'll find it's like that a lot in life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214964</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>Nutria</author>
	<datestamp>1266676080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I have yet to be fingerprinted</i></p><p>I guess you aren't going to Canada any time soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have yet to be fingerprintedI guess you are n't going to Canada any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have yet to be fingerprintedI guess you aren't going to Canada any time soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31251668</id>
	<title>We did this at a previous employer</title>
	<author>Vrtigo1</author>
	<datestamp>1266924240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At a previous job, we switched our time tracking software over from physical time clocks to fingerprint timeclock software we developed in house.  We employed a lot of young people in positions that didn't have a lot of supervision so we had problems with people clocking their friends in early and out late.

As someone previously stated, the software doesn't store images of your prints, it just stores a digital equivalent.  As I understand it, the actual data that's stored is akin to an md5 hash of your fingerprint such that when you put your finger on the scanner, the software can tell whether your fingerprint matches the signature on file, but you cannot recreate a copy of your fingerprint from the stored signature.  Once people understood that, they became much more receptive to the idea of us using their fingerprints in this way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At a previous job , we switched our time tracking software over from physical time clocks to fingerprint timeclock software we developed in house .
We employed a lot of young people in positions that did n't have a lot of supervision so we had problems with people clocking their friends in early and out late .
As someone previously stated , the software does n't store images of your prints , it just stores a digital equivalent .
As I understand it , the actual data that 's stored is akin to an md5 hash of your fingerprint such that when you put your finger on the scanner , the software can tell whether your fingerprint matches the signature on file , but you can not recreate a copy of your fingerprint from the stored signature .
Once people understood that , they became much more receptive to the idea of us using their fingerprints in this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At a previous job, we switched our time tracking software over from physical time clocks to fingerprint timeclock software we developed in house.
We employed a lot of young people in positions that didn't have a lot of supervision so we had problems with people clocking their friends in early and out late.
As someone previously stated, the software doesn't store images of your prints, it just stores a digital equivalent.
As I understand it, the actual data that's stored is akin to an md5 hash of your fingerprint such that when you put your finger on the scanner, the software can tell whether your fingerprint matches the signature on file, but you cannot recreate a copy of your fingerprint from the stored signature.
Once people understood that, they became much more receptive to the idea of us using their fingerprints in this way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216904</id>
	<title>Has more to do with hygene than privacy</title>
	<author>GrantRobertson</author>
	<datestamp>1266785280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GEEZ! The Slashdoters sure can pitch a fit about nothing!</p><p>These devices only store a few numbers that were derived from the patterns of your prints. They don't store anything near the actual image. When you re-scan your finger to clock in it creates a new set of numbers and looks for a set that is statistically close to something it has in it's database. Usually you have to enter a PIN as well because these things do such a crappy job that without knowing where to start, it would have a terrible time figuring out which of the stored sets of numbers match up to the one you just scanned in. I'm not saying that some systems can't do a great job. I'm just saying that the kinds of systems they sell for time-clocks are usually pretty lame. Especially after they get beat around for a while. So all these time-clock units really do is determine if the clock-in scan is statistically close enough to the original scan to be more likely to be you than some other employee. The actual data stored is less personally identifiable than your name. Are you gonna complain if they ask you to give your name when you clock in?</p><p>I also seriously doubt that these things produce any form of standardized data that could be transferred to any other system. Heck, sometimes the scans won't match up just because you bought a slightly different model from the same manufacturer to replace a broken unit. Ever try to troubleshoot one of these systems? It is a nightmare.</p><p>So, you have nothing to worry about. "They" are more likely to track you by mere facial recognition via security cameras than by your fingerprints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GEEZ !
The Slashdoters sure can pitch a fit about nothing ! These devices only store a few numbers that were derived from the patterns of your prints .
They do n't store anything near the actual image .
When you re-scan your finger to clock in it creates a new set of numbers and looks for a set that is statistically close to something it has in it 's database .
Usually you have to enter a PIN as well because these things do such a crappy job that without knowing where to start , it would have a terrible time figuring out which of the stored sets of numbers match up to the one you just scanned in .
I 'm not saying that some systems ca n't do a great job .
I 'm just saying that the kinds of systems they sell for time-clocks are usually pretty lame .
Especially after they get beat around for a while .
So all these time-clock units really do is determine if the clock-in scan is statistically close enough to the original scan to be more likely to be you than some other employee .
The actual data stored is less personally identifiable than your name .
Are you gon na complain if they ask you to give your name when you clock in ? I also seriously doubt that these things produce any form of standardized data that could be transferred to any other system .
Heck , sometimes the scans wo n't match up just because you bought a slightly different model from the same manufacturer to replace a broken unit .
Ever try to troubleshoot one of these systems ?
It is a nightmare.So , you have nothing to worry about .
" They " are more likely to track you by mere facial recognition via security cameras than by your fingerprints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GEEZ!
The Slashdoters sure can pitch a fit about nothing!These devices only store a few numbers that were derived from the patterns of your prints.
They don't store anything near the actual image.
When you re-scan your finger to clock in it creates a new set of numbers and looks for a set that is statistically close to something it has in it's database.
Usually you have to enter a PIN as well because these things do such a crappy job that without knowing where to start, it would have a terrible time figuring out which of the stored sets of numbers match up to the one you just scanned in.
I'm not saying that some systems can't do a great job.
I'm just saying that the kinds of systems they sell for time-clocks are usually pretty lame.
Especially after they get beat around for a while.
So all these time-clock units really do is determine if the clock-in scan is statistically close enough to the original scan to be more likely to be you than some other employee.
The actual data stored is less personally identifiable than your name.
Are you gonna complain if they ask you to give your name when you clock in?I also seriously doubt that these things produce any form of standardized data that could be transferred to any other system.
Heck, sometimes the scans won't match up just because you bought a slightly different model from the same manufacturer to replace a broken unit.
Ever try to troubleshoot one of these systems?
It is a nightmare.So, you have nothing to worry about.
"They" are more likely to track you by mere facial recognition via security cameras than by your fingerprints.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214350</id>
	<title>Re:Not working there is not a solution.</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1266670740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.  This is not a solution.  If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.  If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.</p></div><p>I hope you understand that 'not giving them' a fingerprint for privacy concerns is a relatively moot point.</p><p>If someone that employs you or works with you (or even not working with you, but knows of you) wants your fingerprint they can simply grab up any of the many things you touch on a daily basis.</p><p>Most people don't wear gloves when they leave the house.</p><p>Your fingerprints are all over the place.  If I wanted them, I could get them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer .
This is not a solution .
If we do n't fight it and win , it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight .
If we think this is a bad idea , it needs to be fought now while it 's still in its infancy.I hope you understand that 'not giving them ' a fingerprint for privacy concerns is a relatively moot point.If someone that employs you or works with you ( or even not working with you , but knows of you ) wants your fingerprint they can simply grab up any of the many things you touch on a daily basis.Most people do n't wear gloves when they leave the house.Your fingerprints are all over the place .
If I wanted them , I could get them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not many posts yet but I already see a LOT of posts pushing the idea of not working for this employer.
This is not a solution.
If we don't fight it and win, it will be adopted by more and more employers until it snowballs into something too big to fight.
If we think this is a bad idea, it needs to be fought now while it's still in its infancy.I hope you understand that 'not giving them' a fingerprint for privacy concerns is a relatively moot point.If someone that employs you or works with you (or even not working with you, but knows of you) wants your fingerprint they can simply grab up any of the many things you touch on a daily basis.Most people don't wear gloves when they leave the house.Your fingerprints are all over the place.
If I wanted them, I could get them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31242038</id>
	<title>Not to worry.</title>
	<author>tekgoblin</author>
	<datestamp>1266917700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dont think that you need to worry about fingerprinting, they are probably just being used for verification purposes and thats all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dont think that you need to worry about fingerprinting , they are probably just being used for verification purposes and thats all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dont think that you need to worry about fingerprinting, they are probably just being used for verification purposes and thats all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214204</id>
	<title>Modern Fingerprint Scanners dont keep prints</title>
	<author>Tepshen</author>
	<datestamp>1266669720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The way that most modern fingerprint scanners work is by using matching algorithms. They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that. Not a copy of your fingerprint itself. This numeric value cannot be used to recreate your fingerprint but it can however be used to match the output that only your fingerprint will produce when scanned. To be perfectly candid its far easier to steal your fingerprints by stealing something you own than it is to take them from a fingerprint security/tracking system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The way that most modern fingerprint scanners work is by using matching algorithms .
They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that .
Not a copy of your fingerprint itself .
This numeric value can not be used to recreate your fingerprint but it can however be used to match the output that only your fingerprint will produce when scanned .
To be perfectly candid its far easier to steal your fingerprints by stealing something you own than it is to take them from a fingerprint security/tracking system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way that most modern fingerprint scanners work is by using matching algorithms.
They scan your fingerprint and translate that into a numeric value and then store that.
Not a copy of your fingerprint itself.
This numeric value cannot be used to recreate your fingerprint but it can however be used to match the output that only your fingerprint will produce when scanned.
To be perfectly candid its far easier to steal your fingerprints by stealing something you own than it is to take them from a fingerprint security/tracking system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217786</id>
	<title>Never Arrested? Boring.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266760680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've never been arrested and you're 20-something?  What a boring life you must lead.<br>I've worked in places where finger printing was mandatory so they could perform background checks, talk with my neighbors in every place I'd lived in the recent 10 years, and get a general idea what kind of person I was from financial records, credit reports, drug tests, etc.</p><p>I don't ever intend to do that again, but I'm not starting out. If you want the job, let them have it. If you don't need the job, you might explain why you aren't submitting it and thank them for their consideration. If they have a government contract, there is little they can do to override this method.</p><p>When you work sucking from the teat of government, you lose many of your "rights." Get over it. BTW, I'd vote for a law that says everything a government employee says, writes, does anywhere should be recorded and made available to any citizens in their area of coverage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've never been arrested and you 're 20-something ?
What a boring life you must lead.I 've worked in places where finger printing was mandatory so they could perform background checks , talk with my neighbors in every place I 'd lived in the recent 10 years , and get a general idea what kind of person I was from financial records , credit reports , drug tests , etc.I do n't ever intend to do that again , but I 'm not starting out .
If you want the job , let them have it .
If you do n't need the job , you might explain why you are n't submitting it and thank them for their consideration .
If they have a government contract , there is little they can do to override this method.When you work sucking from the teat of government , you lose many of your " rights .
" Get over it .
BTW , I 'd vote for a law that says everything a government employee says , writes , does anywhere should be recorded and made available to any citizens in their area of coverage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've never been arrested and you're 20-something?
What a boring life you must lead.I've worked in places where finger printing was mandatory so they could perform background checks, talk with my neighbors in every place I'd lived in the recent 10 years, and get a general idea what kind of person I was from financial records, credit reports, drug tests, etc.I don't ever intend to do that again, but I'm not starting out.
If you want the job, let them have it.
If you don't need the job, you might explain why you aren't submitting it and thank them for their consideration.
If they have a government contract, there is little they can do to override this method.When you work sucking from the teat of government, you lose many of your "rights.
" Get over it.
BTW, I'd vote for a law that says everything a government employee says, writes, does anywhere should be recorded and made available to any citizens in their area of coverage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214200</id>
	<title>Acid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use acid on your finger tips to remove the prints and use that for ID.  The only problem is that you are now linked to hundreds of crimes where no traces of fingerprints were found.  But at least they wont be able to identify YOU when they find your actual fingerprints somewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use acid on your finger tips to remove the prints and use that for ID .
The only problem is that you are now linked to hundreds of crimes where no traces of fingerprints were found .
But at least they wont be able to identify YOU when they find your actual fingerprints somewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use acid on your finger tips to remove the prints and use that for ID.
The only problem is that you are now linked to hundreds of crimes where no traces of fingerprints were found.
But at least they wont be able to identify YOU when they find your actual fingerprints somewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214296</id>
	<title>Easy Fix For You</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1266670380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reynolds Wrap fashioned into a stylish chapeau. Works every time, guaranteed (unless you hear that from a government employee, then all bets are off).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reynolds Wrap fashioned into a stylish chapeau .
Works every time , guaranteed ( unless you hear that from a government employee , then all bets are off ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reynolds Wrap fashioned into a stylish chapeau.
Works every time, guaranteed (unless you hear that from a government employee, then all bets are off).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215618</id>
	<title>Hash?</title>
	<author>michael1221988</author>
	<datestamp>1266682380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it is just a description of the fingerprint, wouldn't it be like a hash.  You can verify that the person is indeed who they claim to be (you are clocking in), but they won't be able to frame you for murder, because they can't produce a fingerprint from the description.  This seems just like a hash to me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is just a description of the fingerprint , would n't it be like a hash .
You can verify that the person is indeed who they claim to be ( you are clocking in ) , but they wo n't be able to frame you for murder , because they ca n't produce a fingerprint from the description .
This seems just like a hash to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is just a description of the fingerprint, wouldn't it be like a hash.
You can verify that the person is indeed who they claim to be (you are clocking in), but they won't be able to frame you for murder, because they can't produce a fingerprint from the description.
This seems just like a hash to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215138</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1266677580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fiasco? Really?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fiasco ?
Really ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fiasco?
Really?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218262</id>
	<title>Re:biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1266766140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>and you cant defraud your employeer.</p></div></blockquote><p>Wow! Where you in their sales department? Say I have a holiday I want to go to. I get in at 13:00 after my Lunch. I leave. I explain later IF they actually look at it that I forgot to log out, because I was in such a hurry getting the kids from school, packing stuff and what not.</p><p>Obviously my cow orker who previously logged in and out for me will testify now that I was there indeed (so he can come in late and 'forget' to log in after a party).</p><p>And every time between 13:00 and 17:00 I can do whatever I like and the same in the morning. If I am really smart, I will be 'forget' to log in and/or out when I KNOW the person who will check on me can testify I was there. "Oh, that houghi, always forgetting to log in and out. Typicial.". Hey that is how I know people are doing it now.</p><p>So what will the employer do? Will he realize that dishonest staff is a social problem that you can not solve with a technical solution or that there needs to be MORE surveillance? At this moment we have a RFID key that opens the door, but is not used for measurement of any kind.</p><p>And using cards is not an issue where I live. Everybody has a walled where I live. They put the card in their wallet or any other easy to reach place. (I know of people who put it in their phone) and hold that to wherever you enter. So no need to 'remember' the card. Now we have something you put on your key chain. So have your keys and you shall pass.</p><p>So I would say it is a slippery slope towards more control of honest people making them feel as if their boss does not trust them, while the dishonest ones will figure ways around it or do disthoest things in another way. They will be there, but do nothing or just steal stuff or whatever.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>and you cant defraud your employeer.Wow !
Where you in their sales department ?
Say I have a holiday I want to go to .
I get in at 13 : 00 after my Lunch .
I leave .
I explain later IF they actually look at it that I forgot to log out , because I was in such a hurry getting the kids from school , packing stuff and what not.Obviously my cow orker who previously logged in and out for me will testify now that I was there indeed ( so he can come in late and 'forget ' to log in after a party ) .And every time between 13 : 00 and 17 : 00 I can do whatever I like and the same in the morning .
If I am really smart , I will be 'forget ' to log in and/or out when I KNOW the person who will check on me can testify I was there .
" Oh , that houghi , always forgetting to log in and out .
Typicial. " . Hey that is how I know people are doing it now.So what will the employer do ?
Will he realize that dishonest staff is a social problem that you can not solve with a technical solution or that there needs to be MORE surveillance ?
At this moment we have a RFID key that opens the door , but is not used for measurement of any kind.And using cards is not an issue where I live .
Everybody has a walled where I live .
They put the card in their wallet or any other easy to reach place .
( I know of people who put it in their phone ) and hold that to wherever you enter .
So no need to 'remember ' the card .
Now we have something you put on your key chain .
So have your keys and you shall pass.So I would say it is a slippery slope towards more control of honest people making them feel as if their boss does not trust them , while the dishonest ones will figure ways around it or do disthoest things in another way .
They will be there , but do nothing or just steal stuff or whatever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and you cant defraud your employeer.Wow!
Where you in their sales department?
Say I have a holiday I want to go to.
I get in at 13:00 after my Lunch.
I leave.
I explain later IF they actually look at it that I forgot to log out, because I was in such a hurry getting the kids from school, packing stuff and what not.Obviously my cow orker who previously logged in and out for me will testify now that I was there indeed (so he can come in late and 'forget' to log in after a party).And every time between 13:00 and 17:00 I can do whatever I like and the same in the morning.
If I am really smart, I will be 'forget' to log in and/or out when I KNOW the person who will check on me can testify I was there.
"Oh, that houghi, always forgetting to log in and out.
Typicial.". Hey that is how I know people are doing it now.So what will the employer do?
Will he realize that dishonest staff is a social problem that you can not solve with a technical solution or that there needs to be MORE surveillance?
At this moment we have a RFID key that opens the door, but is not used for measurement of any kind.And using cards is not an issue where I live.
Everybody has a walled where I live.
They put the card in their wallet or any other easy to reach place.
(I know of people who put it in their phone) and hold that to wherever you enter.
So no need to 'remember' the card.
Now we have something you put on your key chain.
So have your keys and you shall pass.So I would say it is a slippery slope towards more control of honest people making them feel as if their boss does not trust them, while the dishonest ones will figure ways around it or do disthoest things in another way.
They will be there, but do nothing or just steal stuff or whatever.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215932</id>
	<title>Chill out, chicken little</title>
	<author>justinlee37</author>
	<datestamp>1266686040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work part-time as a pizza delivery guy when I was in high school. We signed into the computers at work to clock deliveries in and out using a thumbprint scanner. I didn't mind 'cause we had to sign in and out often and it was faster and more reliable than using a username/password.</p><p>Of course, that was just a little pizza place, not the university that I attended, and they only had a crude electronic copy of my right thumbprint, not the whole set. I'd be a little suspicious if the university brought you in to take EVERY fingerprint.</p><p>For the most part though, I don't think you've got much to worry about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work part-time as a pizza delivery guy when I was in high school .
We signed into the computers at work to clock deliveries in and out using a thumbprint scanner .
I did n't mind 'cause we had to sign in and out often and it was faster and more reliable than using a username/password.Of course , that was just a little pizza place , not the university that I attended , and they only had a crude electronic copy of my right thumbprint , not the whole set .
I 'd be a little suspicious if the university brought you in to take EVERY fingerprint.For the most part though , I do n't think you 've got much to worry about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work part-time as a pizza delivery guy when I was in high school.
We signed into the computers at work to clock deliveries in and out using a thumbprint scanner.
I didn't mind 'cause we had to sign in and out often and it was faster and more reliable than using a username/password.Of course, that was just a little pizza place, not the university that I attended, and they only had a crude electronic copy of my right thumbprint, not the whole set.
I'd be a little suspicious if the university brought you in to take EVERY fingerprint.For the most part though, I don't think you've got much to worry about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217398</id>
	<title>Ummm....</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1266752880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's lots of reasons to worry about fingerprint scanners[*] but "privacy" isn't really one of them.</p><p>You leave copies of your fingerprints wherever you go, on everything you touch.</p><p>* Main reason: They're not very secure - people leave copies of their 'key' wherever they go...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's lots of reasons to worry about fingerprint scanners [ * ] but " privacy " is n't really one of them.You leave copies of your fingerprints wherever you go , on everything you touch .
* Main reason : They 're not very secure - people leave copies of their 'key ' wherever they go.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's lots of reasons to worry about fingerprint scanners[*] but "privacy" isn't really one of them.You leave copies of your fingerprints wherever you go, on everything you touch.
* Main reason: They're not very secure - people leave copies of their 'key' wherever they go...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218308</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266766440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought it was more of a show of discontempt, but as a law student I find your explanation much more interesting (not to mention amusing). I guess I should read more comparative constitutional law!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought it was more of a show of discontempt , but as a law student I find your explanation much more interesting ( not to mention amusing ) .
I guess I should read more comparative constitutional law !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought it was more of a show of discontempt, but as a law student I find your explanation much more interesting (not to mention amusing).
I guess I should read more comparative constitutional law!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215952</id>
	<title>Whatever...</title>
	<author>Ritchie70</author>
	<datestamp>1266686280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this is like the systems I've investigated for work (I work for a large retailer, and "buddy punches" are a major problem) they aren't taking your fingerprint, they're teaching the system what your fingerprint looks like. A subtle difference, but a difference.</p><p>Some time clocks don't ever send the fingerprint outside that box; it's just used to make sure you are you.</p><p>The ones I've seen that I thought were better use hand geometry instead of fingerprints. Nobody feels touchy about the electronic version of tracing a pencil around your fingers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is like the systems I 've investigated for work ( I work for a large retailer , and " buddy punches " are a major problem ) they are n't taking your fingerprint , they 're teaching the system what your fingerprint looks like .
A subtle difference , but a difference.Some time clocks do n't ever send the fingerprint outside that box ; it 's just used to make sure you are you.The ones I 've seen that I thought were better use hand geometry instead of fingerprints .
Nobody feels touchy about the electronic version of tracing a pencil around your fingers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is like the systems I've investigated for work (I work for a large retailer, and "buddy punches" are a major problem) they aren't taking your fingerprint, they're teaching the system what your fingerprint looks like.
A subtle difference, but a difference.Some time clocks don't ever send the fingerprint outside that box; it's just used to make sure you are you.The ones I've seen that I thought were better use hand geometry instead of fingerprints.
Nobody feels touchy about the electronic version of tracing a pencil around your fingers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218204</id>
	<title>Bring a camera and gelatin</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1266765360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whoever wrote that letter is obviously a fool. But show up, and bring a camera, preferably a camera crew, and some gelatin. Then replicate this experiment described by Bruce Schneier.</p><p><a href="http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0205.html#5" title="schneier.com">http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0205.html#5</a> [schneier.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whoever wrote that letter is obviously a fool .
But show up , and bring a camera , preferably a camera crew , and some gelatin .
Then replicate this experiment described by Bruce Schneier.http : //www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0205.html # 5 [ schneier.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whoever wrote that letter is obviously a fool.
But show up, and bring a camera, preferably a camera crew, and some gelatin.
Then replicate this experiment described by Bruce Schneier.http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0205.html#5 [schneier.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214314</id>
	<title>Those things don't work</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1266670500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
We had one, after the first couple of weeks people started punching it instead of "punching in". They're supposed to also have a keypad so you can manually enter an access code, since the reader is known to be undependable.
</p><p>
If you want to mess it up, each time you stick your finger on it while it's "registering you" (it needs more than 1 scan), put your finger in a different position, different angle, or even use a different finger (people generally don't notice).  After 5 failed attempts, they'll give up. Or, if they "insist" o "helping you" place your finger, tell them that as far as you're concerned, their broken machine is their problem, and that touching you is common assault and you'll file charges.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We had one , after the first couple of weeks people started punching it instead of " punching in " .
They 're supposed to also have a keypad so you can manually enter an access code , since the reader is known to be undependable .
If you want to mess it up , each time you stick your finger on it while it 's " registering you " ( it needs more than 1 scan ) , put your finger in a different position , different angle , or even use a different finger ( people generally do n't notice ) .
After 5 failed attempts , they 'll give up .
Or , if they " insist " o " helping you " place your finger , tell them that as far as you 're concerned , their broken machine is their problem , and that touching you is common assault and you 'll file charges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
We had one, after the first couple of weeks people started punching it instead of "punching in".
They're supposed to also have a keypad so you can manually enter an access code, since the reader is known to be undependable.
If you want to mess it up, each time you stick your finger on it while it's "registering you" (it needs more than 1 scan), put your finger in a different position, different angle, or even use a different finger (people generally don't notice).
After 5 failed attempts, they'll give up.
Or, if they "insist" o "helping you" place your finger, tell them that as far as you're concerned, their broken machine is their problem, and that touching you is common assault and you'll file charges.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214234</id>
	<title>Quit</title>
	<author>tix6174</author>
	<datestamp>1266670020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you don't like the terms of work then don't work there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't like the terms of work then do n't work there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't like the terms of work then don't work there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214470</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1266671640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You still touch door handles with your hand? I see you don't have your towel with you.</p><p>I bet you also still push the elevator buttons with your finger instead of your knuckles...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You still touch door handles with your hand ?
I see you do n't have your towel with you.I bet you also still push the elevator buttons with your finger instead of your knuckles.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You still touch door handles with your hand?
I see you don't have your towel with you.I bet you also still push the elevator buttons with your finger instead of your knuckles...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217078</id>
	<title>professional school</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266745860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I finished my undergraduate degree and applied for Doctor of Pharmacy program.  We are required to also apply for a state pharmacy intern license.  This required sending in fingerprints to FBI and BCI.  I called the place where they give out driver's licenses and they did it for a fee (it was under $50 but I don't remember exact amount).</p><p>I don't know why U Mass is taking work study jobs so important. I remember they limit you on how much money you can make via work study.  I am limited to $2,000/year.  I know someone else who is limited to $1,000 and someone else limited to $5,000.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I finished my undergraduate degree and applied for Doctor of Pharmacy program .
We are required to also apply for a state pharmacy intern license .
This required sending in fingerprints to FBI and BCI .
I called the place where they give out driver 's licenses and they did it for a fee ( it was under $ 50 but I do n't remember exact amount ) .I do n't know why U Mass is taking work study jobs so important .
I remember they limit you on how much money you can make via work study .
I am limited to $ 2,000/year .
I know someone else who is limited to $ 1,000 and someone else limited to $ 5,000 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I finished my undergraduate degree and applied for Doctor of Pharmacy program.
We are required to also apply for a state pharmacy intern license.
This required sending in fingerprints to FBI and BCI.
I called the place where they give out driver's licenses and they did it for a fee (it was under $50 but I don't remember exact amount).I don't know why U Mass is taking work study jobs so important.
I remember they limit you on how much money you can make via work study.
I am limited to $2,000/year.
I know someone else who is limited to $1,000 and someone else limited to $5,000.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215714</id>
	<title>Re:biometric time clocks</title>
	<author>seifried</author>
	<datestamp>1266683580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The solution to social/management problems is rarely technical in nature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution to social/management problems is rarely technical in nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution to social/management problems is rarely technical in nature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215794</id>
	<title>Why is hashing OK?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266684480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, these things may just store a digest of your fingerprint. It still means that fingerprints otherwise collected can be connected to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , these things may just store a digest of your fingerprint .
It still means that fingerprints otherwise collected can be connected to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, these things may just store a digest of your fingerprint.
It still means that fingerprints otherwise collected can be connected to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215690</id>
	<title>Why even ask about privacy?</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1266683340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Privacy doesn't seem to be the real issue here, unless they're selling your prints to the Feds. What I would like to know is: given the fact that these things don't work worth a damn, why would they be using a system like this in the first place?
<br> <br>
I mean, if I had to use a fingerprint scanner for identification, I'm the kind of person who would fool with it just for fun. The only way they have been able to make them "reliable" -- that is, reliably accept your fingerprint and not lock you out -- was to loosen up the match criteria enough that they are much too prone to false positives, which in turn makes them easy to fool.
<br> <br>
I would do things like clock in Susan for four hours when she is really on vacation in Hawaii, for example, just to see what happens. Or clock in Sam at 3 a.m. so that when he comes around at noon and scans, he's really clocking out. And so on. Consider it like friendly hacking... you are showing the owners that their system just doesn't work. It's a useful technique when they simply won't listen to reason.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Privacy does n't seem to be the real issue here , unless they 're selling your prints to the Feds .
What I would like to know is : given the fact that these things do n't work worth a damn , why would they be using a system like this in the first place ?
I mean , if I had to use a fingerprint scanner for identification , I 'm the kind of person who would fool with it just for fun .
The only way they have been able to make them " reliable " -- that is , reliably accept your fingerprint and not lock you out -- was to loosen up the match criteria enough that they are much too prone to false positives , which in turn makes them easy to fool .
I would do things like clock in Susan for four hours when she is really on vacation in Hawaii , for example , just to see what happens .
Or clock in Sam at 3 a.m. so that when he comes around at noon and scans , he 's really clocking out .
And so on .
Consider it like friendly hacking... you are showing the owners that their system just does n't work .
It 's a useful technique when they simply wo n't listen to reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Privacy doesn't seem to be the real issue here, unless they're selling your prints to the Feds.
What I would like to know is: given the fact that these things don't work worth a damn, why would they be using a system like this in the first place?
I mean, if I had to use a fingerprint scanner for identification, I'm the kind of person who would fool with it just for fun.
The only way they have been able to make them "reliable" -- that is, reliably accept your fingerprint and not lock you out -- was to loosen up the match criteria enough that they are much too prone to false positives, which in turn makes them easy to fool.
I would do things like clock in Susan for four hours when she is really on vacation in Hawaii, for example, just to see what happens.
Or clock in Sam at 3 a.m. so that when he comes around at noon and scans, he's really clocking out.
And so on.
Consider it like friendly hacking... you are showing the owners that their system just doesn't work.
It's a useful technique when they simply won't listen to reason.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215396</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>tophermeyer</author>
	<datestamp>1266679680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We use a lot of students where I work.  I can speak from experience that students, especially part-timers who like to squeeze in hours whenever they can, are without their badges and ID cards a lot.  Either lost or left in the dorm room when they left for the day.  As someone who is responsible for getting a temporary day-badge for my co-op whenever he forgets his, my first reaction was something like "cool!  How can I get me one of those?". </p><p> I suppose I don't know exactly how this system works, and thus what kind of privacy implications might exist.  But I can imagine the privacy implications here are no different than all the other personal information employers routinely collect about their new hires.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We use a lot of students where I work .
I can speak from experience that students , especially part-timers who like to squeeze in hours whenever they can , are without their badges and ID cards a lot .
Either lost or left in the dorm room when they left for the day .
As someone who is responsible for getting a temporary day-badge for my co-op whenever he forgets his , my first reaction was something like " cool !
How can I get me one of those ? " .
I suppose I do n't know exactly how this system works , and thus what kind of privacy implications might exist .
But I can imagine the privacy implications here are no different than all the other personal information employers routinely collect about their new hires .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We use a lot of students where I work.
I can speak from experience that students, especially part-timers who like to squeeze in hours whenever they can, are without their badges and ID cards a lot.
Either lost or left in the dorm room when they left for the day.
As someone who is responsible for getting a temporary day-badge for my co-op whenever he forgets his, my first reaction was something like "cool!
How can I get me one of those?".
I suppose I don't know exactly how this system works, and thus what kind of privacy implications might exist.
But I can imagine the privacy implications here are no different than all the other personal information employers routinely collect about their new hires.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218960</id>
	<title>Re:Non-issue?</title>
	<author>fwr</author>
	<datestamp>1266772860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the students are that irresponsible (synonyms: reckless, careless, negligent, foolish, rash, immature), then they probably should not get paid when they can't comply with the requirements of the job.  If that means they need to waste a hour to get back to the dorm room to retrieve their badge, or pay a fee to reprocess them for a lost badge, then I would think the problem would take care of itself after a few occasions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the students are that irresponsible ( synonyms : reckless , careless , negligent , foolish , rash , immature ) , then they probably should not get paid when they ca n't comply with the requirements of the job .
If that means they need to waste a hour to get back to the dorm room to retrieve their badge , or pay a fee to reprocess them for a lost badge , then I would think the problem would take care of itself after a few occasions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the students are that irresponsible (synonyms: reckless, careless, negligent, foolish, rash, immature), then they probably should not get paid when they can't comply with the requirements of the job.
If that means they need to waste a hour to get back to the dorm room to retrieve their badge, or pay a fee to reprocess them for a lost badge, then I would think the problem would take care of itself after a few occasions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31220122</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266779400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait, why would a time clock have social security numbers? That seems completely unnecessary and unwise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , why would a time clock have social security numbers ?
That seems completely unnecessary and unwise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, why would a time clock have social security numbers?
That seems completely unnecessary and unwise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217748</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the new world</title>
	<author>tburkhol</author>
	<datestamp>1266760260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not saying that they couldn't do that, but you do realize (being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter) that 'they' can get your fingerprints, DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days.</p></div><p>That's fine.  If, for example, they've done some good police work and identified me as a suspect, then they should be able to get biometric information in order to prove/disprove that suspicion.  The unpleasant part is for there to be a large database they can search without having done any police work first.  That makes everyone in the DB a de facto suspect of every crime, and if your fingerprint code happens to match a criminal, then you may be falsely accused with "strong" evidence of guilt.</p><p>The timeclock DB may not communicate with AFIS, but Government can obtain the DB with only the consent of the employer.  If a crime is committed on the employer's property, do you think employer will be reluctant to providing that consent?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not saying that they could n't do that , but you do realize ( being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter ) that 'they ' can get your fingerprints , DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days.That 's fine .
If , for example , they 've done some good police work and identified me as a suspect , then they should be able to get biometric information in order to prove/disprove that suspicion .
The unpleasant part is for there to be a large database they can search without having done any police work first .
That makes everyone in the DB a de facto suspect of every crime , and if your fingerprint code happens to match a criminal , then you may be falsely accused with " strong " evidence of guilt.The timeclock DB may not communicate with AFIS , but Government can obtain the DB with only the consent of the employer .
If a crime is committed on the employer 's property , do you think employer will be reluctant to providing that consent ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not saying that they couldn't do that, but you do realize (being an aluminum foil shielded card carrying Slasdotter) that 'they' can get your fingerprints, DNA and bog knows what else without much of a problem these days.That's fine.
If, for example, they've done some good police work and identified me as a suspect, then they should be able to get biometric information in order to prove/disprove that suspicion.
The unpleasant part is for there to be a large database they can search without having done any police work first.
That makes everyone in the DB a de facto suspect of every crime, and if your fingerprint code happens to match a criminal, then you may be falsely accused with "strong" evidence of guilt.The timeclock DB may not communicate with AFIS, but Government can obtain the DB with only the consent of the employer.
If a crime is committed on the employer's property, do you think employer will be reluctant to providing that consent?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214580</id>
	<title>Re:For the fossils</title>
	<author>catherder\_finleyd</author>
	<datestamp>1266672420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And now for the rest of the story:</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5\_7C0QGkiVo" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5\_7C0QGkiVo</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And now for the rest of the story : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 5 \ _7C0QGkiVo [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And now for the rest of the story:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5\_7C0QGkiVo [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214684</id>
	<title>Re:Pick your battles. Settle for knowing...</title>
	<author>Billly Gates</author>
	<datestamp>1266673320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well my guess is if he is applying for a job then he needs money.</p><p>You can't fight the system when you have student loans, rent, food, and things you need to consume to survive. I used to hate the system too and being unrehirable or hirable is going to scare any HR department from ever hiring you.</p><p>We live in a conservative capitalist society for all but the super wealthy (they live under socialism) in the US.</p><p>I am sorry you hate employers doing these things but you have to "pick your battles". This is not one of them unless your parents are well off. Reading your title of the post I came to the exact opposite conclusion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well my guess is if he is applying for a job then he needs money.You ca n't fight the system when you have student loans , rent , food , and things you need to consume to survive .
I used to hate the system too and being unrehirable or hirable is going to scare any HR department from ever hiring you.We live in a conservative capitalist society for all but the super wealthy ( they live under socialism ) in the US.I am sorry you hate employers doing these things but you have to " pick your battles " .
This is not one of them unless your parents are well off .
Reading your title of the post I came to the exact opposite conclusion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well my guess is if he is applying for a job then he needs money.You can't fight the system when you have student loans, rent, food, and things you need to consume to survive.
I used to hate the system too and being unrehirable or hirable is going to scare any HR department from ever hiring you.We live in a conservative capitalist society for all but the super wealthy (they live under socialism) in the US.I am sorry you hate employers doing these things but you have to "pick your battles".
This is not one of them unless your parents are well off.
Reading your title of the post I came to the exact opposite conclusion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214412</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Angstroem</author>
	<datestamp>1266671220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With all due respect, you are a dumbass.</p><p>Here's one guy who still uses his brain for thinking, and he just doesn't see what this fingerprinting (which you may have forgotten was used as a special treatment for criminals in former times) is all about.</p><p>If they want to check his presence, logging him in and out, there are other methods to do that. They don't need his fingerprints. It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.</p><p>And, yes, his fingerprints are all over the doorprint. Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints. And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.</p><p>Before all this "we need your fingerprints for this and that" nonsense, of course, as his fingerprints weren't not registered.</p><p>Now they are.</p><p>It's easy to ridicule people as paranoid. Instead, however, you should be thinking "why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With all due respect , you are a dumbass.Here 's one guy who still uses his brain for thinking , and he just does n't see what this fingerprinting ( which you may have forgotten was used as a special treatment for criminals in former times ) is all about.If they want to check his presence , logging him in and out , there are other methods to do that .
They do n't need his fingerprints .
It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.And , yes , his fingerprints are all over the doorprint .
Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints .
And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.Before all this " we need your fingerprints for this and that " nonsense , of course , as his fingerprints were n't not registered.Now they are.It 's easy to ridicule people as paranoid .
Instead , however , you should be thinking " why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With all due respect, you are a dumbass.Here's one guy who still uses his brain for thinking, and he just doesn't see what this fingerprinting (which you may have forgotten was used as a special treatment for criminals in former times) is all about.If they want to check his presence, logging him in and out, there are other methods to do that.
They don't need his fingerprints.
It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.And, yes, his fingerprints are all over the doorprint.
Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints.
And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.Before all this "we need your fingerprints for this and that" nonsense, of course, as his fingerprints weren't not registered.Now they are.It's easy to ridicule people as paranoid.
Instead, however, you should be thinking "why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214150</id>
	<title>What else should I do?</title>
	<author>NfoCipher</author>
	<datestamp>1266669420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Start looking for another job..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Start looking for another job. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start looking for another job..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214368</id>
	<title>For other professions too</title>
	<author>smoothnorman</author>
	<datestamp>1266670920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's jarring - to be sure.  But consider that most public schools demand fingerprints from their teachers now.   It would be nice if there was indication that this sort of privacy challenge was peaking - but i think it's only accelerating.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's jarring - to be sure .
But consider that most public schools demand fingerprints from their teachers now .
It would be nice if there was indication that this sort of privacy challenge was peaking - but i think it 's only accelerating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's jarring - to be sure.
But consider that most public schools demand fingerprints from their teachers now.
It would be nice if there was indication that this sort of privacy challenge was peaking - but i think it's only accelerating.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218348</id>
	<title>Re:Contradictory</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1266766740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about the manager just showing up once in a while? I know of a place where the big chief went on a holiday. The other managers said to come in one hour later when he was on a holiday. However what they did not know was that when he arrived, he took a plane back and showed up the next morning. Not sure if heads rolled, but you can be sure nobody did something like that ever again for the next 20 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about the manager just showing up once in a while ?
I know of a place where the big chief went on a holiday .
The other managers said to come in one hour later when he was on a holiday .
However what they did not know was that when he arrived , he took a plane back and showed up the next morning .
Not sure if heads rolled , but you can be sure nobody did something like that ever again for the next 20 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about the manager just showing up once in a while?
I know of a place where the big chief went on a holiday.
The other managers said to come in one hour later when he was on a holiday.
However what they did not know was that when he arrived, he took a plane back and showed up the next morning.
Not sure if heads rolled, but you can be sure nobody did something like that ever again for the next 20 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214160</id>
	<title>As long as you are assured that your privacy</title>
	<author>ragethehotey</author>
	<datestamp>1266669480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue. Fingerprint scanners are the best (In terms of ease of implementation) way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other, even though they are obviously easily defeated by anyone sufficiently motivated.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue .
Fingerprint scanners are the best ( In terms of ease of implementation ) way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other , even though they are obviously easily defeated by anyone sufficiently motivated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as you are assured that your privacy is protected...this is a huge non-issue.
Fingerprint scanners are the best (In terms of ease of implementation) way to prevent people from clocking in and out for each other, even though they are obviously easily defeated by anyone sufficiently motivated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218414</id>
	<title>They already fingerprint</title>
	<author>FrankHS</author>
	<datestamp>1266767340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Several years ago I had to give a fingerprint to renew my drivers license.  I seems clear that even without a National ID the government has plenty of identifying information on all of us. If the FBI (or other agency) asked the DMV for my info, surely the sate would give it to them.</p><p>Also if someone from the government went to this company and demanded the fingerprint information ( and the software / hardware to process it) how many companies would refuse them? Especially if they used the secret magic word (terrorism).</p><p>Now on one hand I don't trust the government any farther than I can spit a rat. On the other hand I don't know of anyone being dragged off and falsely accused by the government. That doesn't prove it doesn't happen; just that I haven't seen it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Several years ago I had to give a fingerprint to renew my drivers license .
I seems clear that even without a National ID the government has plenty of identifying information on all of us .
If the FBI ( or other agency ) asked the DMV for my info , surely the sate would give it to them.Also if someone from the government went to this company and demanded the fingerprint information ( and the software / hardware to process it ) how many companies would refuse them ?
Especially if they used the secret magic word ( terrorism ) .Now on one hand I do n't trust the government any farther than I can spit a rat .
On the other hand I do n't know of anyone being dragged off and falsely accused by the government .
That does n't prove it does n't happen ; just that I have n't seen it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Several years ago I had to give a fingerprint to renew my drivers license.
I seems clear that even without a National ID the government has plenty of identifying information on all of us.
If the FBI (or other agency) asked the DMV for my info, surely the sate would give it to them.Also if someone from the government went to this company and demanded the fingerprint information ( and the software / hardware to process it) how many companies would refuse them?
Especially if they used the secret magic word (terrorism).Now on one hand I don't trust the government any farther than I can spit a rat.
On the other hand I don't know of anyone being dragged off and falsely accused by the government.
That doesn't prove it doesn't happen; just that I haven't seen it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218310</id>
	<title>Re:Get Back To Us</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266766500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless she's *really* cute!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless she 's * really * cute !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless she's *really* cute!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214850</id>
	<title>Re:What else should I do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266675180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've worked in the public sector, including state government, for over 12 years.  Getting fingerprinted is a part of background checks--including one run by the FBI--required by the state every 2-5 years.</p><p>If I were you, I'd be way more concerned about the spyware-laden computer you're using to browse the interweb.  It's probably stealing your soul, or at least your Amazon account, right now... quick, run away!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've worked in the public sector , including state government , for over 12 years .
Getting fingerprinted is a part of background checks--including one run by the FBI--required by the state every 2-5 years.If I were you , I 'd be way more concerned about the spyware-laden computer you 're using to browse the interweb .
It 's probably stealing your soul , or at least your Amazon account , right now... quick , run away !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've worked in the public sector, including state government, for over 12 years.
Getting fingerprinted is a part of background checks--including one run by the FBI--required by the state every 2-5 years.If I were you, I'd be way more concerned about the spyware-laden computer you're using to browse the interweb.
It's probably stealing your soul, or at least your Amazon account, right now... quick, run away!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214530</id>
	<title>Keep up the fight</title>
	<author>Billly Gates</author>
	<datestamp>1266672000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meanwhile how much do they pay? What are the benefits? etc?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile how much do they pay ?
What are the benefits ?
etc ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile how much do they pay?
What are the benefits?
etc?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214622</id>
	<title>Almost everywhere now</title>
	<author>smd75</author>
	<datestamp>1266672780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ive been seeing those things almost everywhere now. You type in a pin number and put your hand in the machine. Most of the time its right hand down, one company I worked for said someone asked what if you dont have a right hand. It works just the same left hand up.<br>This was in a hotel. I just saw one at the library the other day. Im pretty sure it isnt about your finger prints, but the shape and contours of your hand in combination with your pin.</p><p>Its not like you can hide much from the government, its a Federal Work Study job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ive been seeing those things almost everywhere now .
You type in a pin number and put your hand in the machine .
Most of the time its right hand down , one company I worked for said someone asked what if you dont have a right hand .
It works just the same left hand up.This was in a hotel .
I just saw one at the library the other day .
Im pretty sure it isnt about your finger prints , but the shape and contours of your hand in combination with your pin.Its not like you can hide much from the government , its a Federal Work Study job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ive been seeing those things almost everywhere now.
You type in a pin number and put your hand in the machine.
Most of the time its right hand down, one company I worked for said someone asked what if you dont have a right hand.
It works just the same left hand up.This was in a hotel.
I just saw one at the library the other day.
Im pretty sure it isnt about your finger prints, but the shape and contours of your hand in combination with your pin.Its not like you can hide much from the government, its a Federal Work Study job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217524</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266755940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well that's true of many countries.  There is a "working holiday" visa in Canada, New Zealand, Japan, etc.  Americans can't work in Canada so easily, because the US won't let anyone do working holidays in their country.  Also, Japan now required fingerprints of foreigners coming in the country, but they copied this idea from the US after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well that 's true of many countries .
There is a " working holiday " visa in Canada , New Zealand , Japan , etc .
Americans ca n't work in Canada so easily , because the US wo n't let anyone do working holidays in their country .
Also , Japan now required fingerprints of foreigners coming in the country , but they copied this idea from the US after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well that's true of many countries.
There is a "working holiday" visa in Canada, New Zealand, Japan, etc.
Americans can't work in Canada so easily, because the US won't let anyone do working holidays in their country.
Also, Japan now required fingerprints of foreigners coming in the country, but they copied this idea from the US after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216138</id>
	<title>Re:You're dumb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266688080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're dumber. Just because you bend over and take it in the ass for the man makes it more the miserable for everyone else.<br>You passive lazy fucks are the reason interviews are like gang rapes, and  companies do credit checks, criminal checks, and these badges allow companies to have so much power and control.</p><p>You sound like an arrogant fuck who popped out some flipper babies, and wants all the entitlements,  and makes some sort of excuses involving your spawn to get other people to do your work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're dumber .
Just because you bend over and take it in the ass for the man makes it more the miserable for everyone else.You passive lazy fucks are the reason interviews are like gang rapes , and companies do credit checks , criminal checks , and these badges allow companies to have so much power and control.You sound like an arrogant fuck who popped out some flipper babies , and wants all the entitlements , and makes some sort of excuses involving your spawn to get other people to do your work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're dumber.
Just because you bend over and take it in the ass for the man makes it more the miserable for everyone else.You passive lazy fucks are the reason interviews are like gang rapes, and  companies do credit checks, criminal checks, and these badges allow companies to have so much power and control.You sound like an arrogant fuck who popped out some flipper babies, and wants all the entitlements,  and makes some sort of excuses involving your spawn to get other people to do your work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214646</id>
	<title>not that strange</title>
	<author>GarretSidzaka</author>
	<datestamp>1266672900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You act like this is an unusual thing.  I know that my brother attended work study and im sure he had to get his fingerprint card.  Also anyone remotely working for the state has to get fingerprint clearance.  what that means if you are clean record is the state has your fingerprints on file.  And if you have a previous felony, you won't be approved for the job at all, because you won't get state clearance.</p><p>Dystopian, yes.  Unusual for us in Arizona, no.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You act like this is an unusual thing .
I know that my brother attended work study and im sure he had to get his fingerprint card .
Also anyone remotely working for the state has to get fingerprint clearance .
what that means if you are clean record is the state has your fingerprints on file .
And if you have a previous felony , you wo n't be approved for the job at all , because you wo n't get state clearance.Dystopian , yes .
Unusual for us in Arizona , no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You act like this is an unusual thing.
I know that my brother attended work study and im sure he had to get his fingerprint card.
Also anyone remotely working for the state has to get fingerprint clearance.
what that means if you are clean record is the state has your fingerprints on file.
And if you have a previous felony, you won't be approved for the job at all, because you won't get state clearance.Dystopian, yes.
Unusual for us in Arizona, no.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214270</id>
	<title>Wait until you get a job</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have been at places where it required a badge, hand geometry and finger print<br>to gain access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been at places where it required a badge , hand geometry and finger printto gain access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been at places where it required a badge, hand geometry and finger printto gain access.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215274</id>
	<title>Re:It's all stupid, and for stupid reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266678600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forgot Australians, Africans, Asians, South Americans, Canadians, Central Americans - basically everyone except US Americans. It's a reciprocity thing. Brazil only requires visas for Americans because the USA requires visas for Brazilians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgot Australians , Africans , Asians , South Americans , Canadians , Central Americans - basically everyone except US Americans .
It 's a reciprocity thing .
Brazil only requires visas for Americans because the USA requires visas for Brazilians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forgot Australians, Africans, Asians, South Americans, Canadians, Central Americans - basically everyone except US Americans.
It's a reciprocity thing.
Brazil only requires visas for Americans because the USA requires visas for Brazilians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214588</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>physicsphairy</author>
	<datestamp>1266672420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they want to check his presence, logging him in and out, there are other methods to do that. They don't need his fingerprints. It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.</p></div><p>How exactly does an ID card verify his presence, rather than simply that someone possessing the card happened to run it through the machine?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And, yes, his fingerprints are all over the doorprint. Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints. And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.</p></div><p>As long as no one goes to the <em>extraordinary</em> effort of pre-emptively wiping the handle clean.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's easy to ridicule people as paranoid. Instead, however, you should be thinking "why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints".</p></div><p>What I am comparing this to is, for example, using a social security number for identification, which seems to generate a large current of opposition here on slashdot precisely because it such a non-physical, easily reproducible security feature.  I want anonymity as much as the next guy, but the one place I don't want it is in verifying my identity.  (I would think most people could see the inherent contradiction in wanting both at the same time.)  Ideally only one person will be able to gain access to things under my identity, that being me.

</p><p>Fyi, pretty much any job working for the government or with children is much more invasive--you will actually have your prints submitted to a database for a background check, rather than simply having checksummed on the given machine.  The latter doesn't seem that controversial to me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they want to check his presence , logging him in and out , there are other methods to do that .
They do n't need his fingerprints .
It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.How exactly does an ID card verify his presence , rather than simply that someone possessing the card happened to run it through the machine ? And , yes , his fingerprints are all over the doorprint .
Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints .
And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.As long as no one goes to the extraordinary effort of pre-emptively wiping the handle clean.It 's easy to ridicule people as paranoid .
Instead , however , you should be thinking " why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints " .What I am comparing this to is , for example , using a social security number for identification , which seems to generate a large current of opposition here on slashdot precisely because it such a non-physical , easily reproducible security feature .
I want anonymity as much as the next guy , but the one place I do n't want it is in verifying my identity .
( I would think most people could see the inherent contradiction in wanting both at the same time .
) Ideally only one person will be able to gain access to things under my identity , that being me .
Fyi , pretty much any job working for the government or with children is much more invasive--you will actually have your prints submitted to a database for a background check , rather than simply having checksummed on the given machine .
The latter does n't seem that controversial to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they want to check his presence, logging him in and out, there are other methods to do that.
They don't need his fingerprints.
It worked perfectly well with badges and/or company ID cards.How exactly does an ID card verify his presence, rather than simply that someone possessing the card happened to run it through the machine?And, yes, his fingerprints are all over the doorprint.
Together with a gazillion of other fingerprints.
And withoug registration that makes him one of the anonymous crowd.As long as no one goes to the extraordinary effort of pre-emptively wiping the handle clean.It's easy to ridicule people as paranoid.
Instead, however, you should be thinking "why the heck are they requiring my fingerprints".What I am comparing this to is, for example, using a social security number for identification, which seems to generate a large current of opposition here on slashdot precisely because it such a non-physical, easily reproducible security feature.
I want anonymity as much as the next guy, but the one place I don't want it is in verifying my identity.
(I would think most people could see the inherent contradiction in wanting both at the same time.
)  Ideally only one person will be able to gain access to things under my identity, that being me.
Fyi, pretty much any job working for the government or with children is much more invasive--you will actually have your prints submitted to a database for a background check, rather than simply having checksummed on the given machine.
The latter doesn't seem that controversial to me.
	</sentencetext>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31215456
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31217108
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31218348
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31216270
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_233200.31214594
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