<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_20_1653232</id>
	<title>Which Linux For Non-Techie Windows Users?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1266690180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>obarthelemy writes <i>"Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs, I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7. The catch is that these guys don't understand or care much about computers, so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible. Actually, they won't care for new things; even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a bother, which is a great opportunity for Linux. I'm not too concerned about software (most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments). What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface &mdash; system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows. Is it better to shoot for a very targeted distro? Which would you recommend? Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead? I've been looking around the web, and it's hard to gauge which distros are well-done and reasonably active."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>obarthelemy writes " Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs , I 'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7 .
The catch is that these guys do n't understand or care much about computers , so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible .
Actually , they wo n't care for new things ; even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a bother , which is a great opportunity for Linux .
I 'm not too concerned about software ( most of them only need browser , IM , VLC , mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments ) .
What I 'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface    system bar on the bottom with clock , trash , info on the right , menu on the left , menu items similar to those of Windows .
Is it better to shoot for a very targeted distro ?
Which would you recommend ?
Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead ?
I 've been looking around the web , and it 's hard to gauge which distros are well-done and reasonably active .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>obarthelemy writes "Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs, I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7.
The catch is that these guys don't understand or care much about computers, so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible.
Actually, they won't care for new things; even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a bother, which is a great opportunity for Linux.
I'm not too concerned about software (most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments).
What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface — system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.
Is it better to shoot for a very targeted distro?
Which would you recommend?
Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?
I've been looking around the web, and it's hard to gauge which distros are well-done and reasonably active.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211734</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm because WinXP is on it's way to EOL. Unless the writer of the GP wants to be re-building machines ad-infinitum the people he supports will need to transition to \_something\_. As a general rule Linux is typically easier to manage that Windows for someone of reasonable technical ability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm because WinXP is on it 's way to EOL .
Unless the writer of the GP wants to be re-building machines ad-infinitum the people he supports will need to transition to \ _something \ _ .
As a general rule Linux is typically easier to manage that Windows for someone of reasonable technical ability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm because WinXP is on it's way to EOL.
Unless the writer of the GP wants to be re-building machines ad-infinitum the people he supports will need to transition to \_something\_.
As a general rule Linux is typically easier to manage that Windows for someone of reasonable technical ability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215336</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266679080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Start with Linux Mint:<br>It is a no-hassle distro. Most media files play out of the box, the update manager divides updates according to importance(5 levels) . Apps can be easily installed with the 'add or remove application'. Ubuntu is know as an easy to use linux and Mint removes even those little annoyances.</p><p>Mint is great for starting of with linux.</p><p>( After using Linux for years when I returned to windows(7) , I realized how much windows sucked , the windows update would not work smoothly , I'd have to restart after every update, I had to check for updates for other installed apps separately [in linux everything can be updated at once] , if some programs would not work I could do nothing to fix it I couldn't even know what was wrong, couldn't open office files[had to install openoffice] , My printer would not work out of the box. )<br>There is a great thing about Linux that if it gives you an error you can read it in terminal and proceed to solve it . This way i haven't had non working programs in for YEARS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Start with Linux Mint : It is a no-hassle distro .
Most media files play out of the box , the update manager divides updates according to importance ( 5 levels ) .
Apps can be easily installed with the 'add or remove application' .
Ubuntu is know as an easy to use linux and Mint removes even those little annoyances.Mint is great for starting of with linux .
( After using Linux for years when I returned to windows ( 7 ) , I realized how much windows sucked , the windows update would not work smoothly , I 'd have to restart after every update , I had to check for updates for other installed apps separately [ in linux everything can be updated at once ] , if some programs would not work I could do nothing to fix it I could n't even know what was wrong , could n't open office files [ had to install openoffice ] , My printer would not work out of the box .
) There is a great thing about Linux that if it gives you an error you can read it in terminal and proceed to solve it .
This way i have n't had non working programs in for YEARS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start with Linux Mint:It is a no-hassle distro.
Most media files play out of the box, the update manager divides updates according to importance(5 levels) .
Apps can be easily installed with the 'add or remove application'.
Ubuntu is know as an easy to use linux and Mint removes even those little annoyances.Mint is great for starting of with linux.
( After using Linux for years when I returned to windows(7) , I realized how much windows sucked , the windows update would not work smoothly , I'd have to restart after every update, I had to check for updates for other installed apps separately [in linux everything can be updated at once] , if some programs would not work I could do nothing to fix it I couldn't even know what was wrong, couldn't open office files[had to install openoffice] , My printer would not work out of the box.
)There is a great thing about Linux that if it gives you an error you can read it in terminal and proceed to solve it .
This way i haven't had non working programs in for YEARS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213782</id>
	<title>Contrary to popular belief</title>
	<author>cntThnkofAname</author>
	<datestamp>1266665820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In all my experience of converting people from Windows to Linux, the real n00bies (the ones that tell you things like my computer is to slow to run the internet) aren't the problem, it's the people that think they know what they're doing in windows that are the problem. For example, I've tried converting a few of my kinda tech savvy (as in they know the parts of the computer and could probably put together a desktop) friends by having them dual boot... It was a disaster. They were asking all the questions one would expect: Why can't I run exe's, where's the C drive, why should I unmount disks before I pull them out, ect.
<br>
<br>
After giving up for a bit I changed the crowd I was trying to "convert" to people that had never conceptualized that Windows isn't the computer that it's just software to help (some would argue) the computer to run. This went over incredibly well. It usually works the same way every time: Person comes up to me, says something like "My computer is really slow, I think myspace gave my a virus<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... fix it" I respond "How about I install something called Linux which will fix all your problems". After 10 minutes of helping them understand the basics of computers they're sold. I've done this with at least 5 people and I have had maybe 7 questions in the last 2 years. I check in every once in a while and I hear the same thing "My computer is still fast!", "I haven't had a problem with it", "Why doesn't everyone use Linux?" , "I can't believe I was going to spend 1000 on a new computer"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the list goes on.
<br>
<br>
It's my personal hypothesis the less someones knows about computers the better the are to learn to use gnu/Linux because they are already used to being uncomfortable with computers and have no preconceptions of how the interface should look or where the "C" drive should be. So don't worry about the look and feel of the OS, just make sure you explain it's different, and why it's different then you should be fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In all my experience of converting people from Windows to Linux , the real n00bies ( the ones that tell you things like my computer is to slow to run the internet ) are n't the problem , it 's the people that think they know what they 're doing in windows that are the problem .
For example , I 've tried converting a few of my kinda tech savvy ( as in they know the parts of the computer and could probably put together a desktop ) friends by having them dual boot... It was a disaster .
They were asking all the questions one would expect : Why ca n't I run exe 's , where 's the C drive , why should I unmount disks before I pull them out , ect .
After giving up for a bit I changed the crowd I was trying to " convert " to people that had never conceptualized that Windows is n't the computer that it 's just software to help ( some would argue ) the computer to run .
This went over incredibly well .
It usually works the same way every time : Person comes up to me , says something like " My computer is really slow , I think myspace gave my a virus ... fix it " I respond " How about I install something called Linux which will fix all your problems " .
After 10 minutes of helping them understand the basics of computers they 're sold .
I 've done this with at least 5 people and I have had maybe 7 questions in the last 2 years .
I check in every once in a while and I hear the same thing " My computer is still fast !
" , " I have n't had a problem with it " , " Why does n't everyone use Linux ?
" , " I ca n't believe I was going to spend 1000 on a new computer " ... the list goes on .
It 's my personal hypothesis the less someones knows about computers the better the are to learn to use gnu/Linux because they are already used to being uncomfortable with computers and have no preconceptions of how the interface should look or where the " C " drive should be .
So do n't worry about the look and feel of the OS , just make sure you explain it 's different , and why it 's different then you should be fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In all my experience of converting people from Windows to Linux, the real n00bies (the ones that tell you things like my computer is to slow to run the internet) aren't the problem, it's the people that think they know what they're doing in windows that are the problem.
For example, I've tried converting a few of my kinda tech savvy (as in they know the parts of the computer and could probably put together a desktop) friends by having them dual boot... It was a disaster.
They were asking all the questions one would expect: Why can't I run exe's, where's the C drive, why should I unmount disks before I pull them out, ect.
After giving up for a bit I changed the crowd I was trying to "convert" to people that had never conceptualized that Windows isn't the computer that it's just software to help (some would argue) the computer to run.
This went over incredibly well.
It usually works the same way every time: Person comes up to me, says something like "My computer is really slow, I think myspace gave my a virus ... fix it" I respond "How about I install something called Linux which will fix all your problems".
After 10 minutes of helping them understand the basics of computers they're sold.
I've done this with at least 5 people and I have had maybe 7 questions in the last 2 years.
I check in every once in a while and I hear the same thing "My computer is still fast!
", "I haven't had a problem with it", "Why doesn't everyone use Linux?
" , "I can't believe I was going to spend 1000 on a new computer" ... the list goes on.
It's my personal hypothesis the less someones knows about computers the better the are to learn to use gnu/Linux because they are already used to being uncomfortable with computers and have no preconceptions of how the interface should look or where the "C" drive should be.
So don't worry about the look and feel of the OS, just make sure you explain it's different, and why it's different then you should be fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213630</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>Anarchomoh</author>
	<datestamp>1266664500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IMHO Elive is the best at the moment. The latest one even has a nanny mode installer and all the necessary things that you mentioned are there except for a Microsoft Office replacement but that can easily be rectified if you install that latest version of Openoffice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO Elive is the best at the moment .
The latest one even has a nanny mode installer and all the necessary things that you mentioned are there except for a Microsoft Office replacement but that can easily be rectified if you install that latest version of Openoffice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO Elive is the best at the moment.
The latest one even has a nanny mode installer and all the necessary things that you mentioned are there except for a Microsoft Office replacement but that can easily be rectified if you install that latest version of Openoffice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212402</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>randomsearch</author>
	<datestamp>1266699420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know if you've used iTunes, but I have.</p><p>It is such a horrible piece of software that I'd say *not* running iTunes is one of Linux's great strengths<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D.</p><p>RS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know if you 've used iTunes , but I have.It is such a horrible piece of software that I 'd say * not * running iTunes is one of Linux 's great strengths : -D.RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know if you've used iTunes, but I have.It is such a horrible piece of software that I'd say *not* running iTunes is one of Linux's great strengths :-D.RS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211638</id>
	<title>Another often overlooked candidate</title>
	<author>Critical Facilities</author>
	<datestamp>1266695160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>See what you think of <a href="http://pclinuxos.com/?page\_id=2" title="pclinuxos.com">PcLinux</a> [pclinuxos.com].  It's built on Debian,  so it's not too "fringey".  <a href="http://www.linuxdynasty.org/pclinuxos-2009-beta-screenshots-and-review.html" title="linuxdynasty.org">Here</a> [linuxdynasty.org] are some screenshots.  It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface,  but not so closely as to be confused with Windows.  The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand,  and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>See what you think of PcLinux [ pclinuxos.com ] .
It 's built on Debian , so it 's not too " fringey " .
Here [ linuxdynasty.org ] are some screenshots .
It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface , but not so closely as to be confused with Windows .
The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand , and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See what you think of PcLinux [pclinuxos.com].
It's built on Debian,  so it's not too "fringey".
Here [linuxdynasty.org] are some screenshots.
It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface,  but not so closely as to be confused with Windows.
The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand,  and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211662</id>
	<title>YaST, YaST, and YaST</title>
	<author>Enderandrew</author>
	<datestamp>1266695220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Windows users expect a familiar control panel to configure their box.</p><p>openSUSE puts out great, polished desktops. Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distro, but YaST is what will really appeal to non-technical Windows users.</p><p>It should be noted that you may need to install a restricted formats package to get Flash, DVDs, MP3s, codecs, etc, and possibly a proprietary video driver. But there are 1-click installers that make this process very simple. After those two steps, you should be in pretty good shape.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Windows users expect a familiar control panel to configure their box.openSUSE puts out great , polished desktops .
Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distro , but YaST is what will really appeal to non-technical Windows users.It should be noted that you may need to install a restricted formats package to get Flash , DVDs , MP3s , codecs , etc , and possibly a proprietary video driver .
But there are 1-click installers that make this process very simple .
After those two steps , you should be in pretty good shape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Windows users expect a familiar control panel to configure their box.openSUSE puts out great, polished desktops.
Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distro, but YaST is what will really appeal to non-technical Windows users.It should be noted that you may need to install a restricted formats package to get Flash, DVDs, MP3s, codecs, etc, and possibly a proprietary video driver.
But there are 1-click installers that make this process very simple.
After those two steps, you should be in pretty good shape.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213522</id>
	<title>Re:YaST, YaST, and YaST</title>
	<author>Noughmad</author>
	<datestamp>1266663540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most Windows users never configure their box. In most cases it only has to be done no more than once, and then it's usually done by a geek relative.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most Windows users never configure their box .
In most cases it only has to be done no more than once , and then it 's usually done by a geek relative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most Windows users never configure their box.
In most cases it only has to be done no more than once, and then it's usually done by a geek relative.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211726</id>
	<title>Something to keep in mind...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...is that Linux is not Windows.  Make sure they know not to expect exactly what they are familiar with when they used Windows.  I think skins to make it look and/or feel like Windows are dangerous, because other behavior is expected, too.</p><p>On most, you can choose between KDE, Gnome, and a range of other desktop environments where you can pick where the panels, (or kickers?) are, arrange the clock to be in the corner, etc.</p><p>Ubuntu has a strong community behind it if they want to venture out to support for themselves.</p><p>I'm not familiar with other distros and the strength of their communities, but also keep that in mind when deciding which one to give them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...is that Linux is not Windows .
Make sure they know not to expect exactly what they are familiar with when they used Windows .
I think skins to make it look and/or feel like Windows are dangerous , because other behavior is expected , too.On most , you can choose between KDE , Gnome , and a range of other desktop environments where you can pick where the panels , ( or kickers ?
) are , arrange the clock to be in the corner , etc.Ubuntu has a strong community behind it if they want to venture out to support for themselves.I 'm not familiar with other distros and the strength of their communities , but also keep that in mind when deciding which one to give them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...is that Linux is not Windows.
Make sure they know not to expect exactly what they are familiar with when they used Windows.
I think skins to make it look and/or feel like Windows are dangerous, because other behavior is expected, too.On most, you can choose between KDE, Gnome, and a range of other desktop environments where you can pick where the panels, (or kickers?
) are, arrange the clock to be in the corner, etc.Ubuntu has a strong community behind it if they want to venture out to support for themselves.I'm not familiar with other distros and the strength of their communities, but also keep that in mind when deciding which one to give them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219238</id>
	<title>Ubuntu... or maybe Kubuntu... plus...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266775020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>some 3rd party repos.  If it's a lower end/older machine with more limited CPU power/RAM you could also try X-Ubuntu which uses xfce for the GUI plus some GTK2 apps.  xfce wasn't too terribly bad years ago when I used on an older notebook with limited memory switching between xfce and fluxbox although at the time xfce was in early stages and I used some 3rd party apps like the ROX filer and some other things.</p><p>Ubuntu gets updated every 6 months, and the upcoming April release will be a "long term" support release which IIRC means that they update it(security updates) for 2y(?).</p><p>It uses debian packaging system which IMNHO is the most problem free packaging system for linux although I will admit to having not touched an RPM system in some years since running into a horrible circular dependency incident with a Red Hat installation -- think DLL hell, but in this case it was RPM dependency hell  Debian style packaging also has alot of nice tools for easily turning source packages into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb install packages so that your package manager knows about what's installed and can, mostly, easily uninstall it.  RPM has something similar nowadays, but again I'm not too sure how well it works from an automated standpoint, nor how much dependency checking improvements that they've made.  (In most cases you can "fix" dependencies by re-building a package or "faking" it with symlinks and a dummy package but you said simple so I doubt that you'll be doing this or want to even try it.)</p><p>Anyways back to simple:  It just ain't there for linux.  You'll eventually encounter a problem of some sort with ANY distro that's going to require you to get your hands dirtier than you would have to with say OSX or Windows.  Ubuntu has decent forums if you track your help requests closely(personally I find them a mess though), and the IRC channels can be helpful IF you have another way to access IRC WHILE attempting to fix your problems, although you could also do so by saving the instructions to do later, it's generally easier to do them as you go along for n00bs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>some 3rd party repos .
If it 's a lower end/older machine with more limited CPU power/RAM you could also try X-Ubuntu which uses xfce for the GUI plus some GTK2 apps .
xfce was n't too terribly bad years ago when I used on an older notebook with limited memory switching between xfce and fluxbox although at the time xfce was in early stages and I used some 3rd party apps like the ROX filer and some other things.Ubuntu gets updated every 6 months , and the upcoming April release will be a " long term " support release which IIRC means that they update it ( security updates ) for 2y ( ?
) .It uses debian packaging system which IMNHO is the most problem free packaging system for linux although I will admit to having not touched an RPM system in some years since running into a horrible circular dependency incident with a Red Hat installation -- think DLL hell , but in this case it was RPM dependency hell Debian style packaging also has alot of nice tools for easily turning source packages into .deb install packages so that your package manager knows about what 's installed and can , mostly , easily uninstall it .
RPM has something similar nowadays , but again I 'm not too sure how well it works from an automated standpoint , nor how much dependency checking improvements that they 've made .
( In most cases you can " fix " dependencies by re-building a package or " faking " it with symlinks and a dummy package but you said simple so I doubt that you 'll be doing this or want to even try it .
) Anyways back to simple : It just ai n't there for linux .
You 'll eventually encounter a problem of some sort with ANY distro that 's going to require you to get your hands dirtier than you would have to with say OSX or Windows .
Ubuntu has decent forums if you track your help requests closely ( personally I find them a mess though ) , and the IRC channels can be helpful IF you have another way to access IRC WHILE attempting to fix your problems , although you could also do so by saving the instructions to do later , it 's generally easier to do them as you go along for n00bs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>some 3rd party repos.
If it's a lower end/older machine with more limited CPU power/RAM you could also try X-Ubuntu which uses xfce for the GUI plus some GTK2 apps.
xfce wasn't too terribly bad years ago when I used on an older notebook with limited memory switching between xfce and fluxbox although at the time xfce was in early stages and I used some 3rd party apps like the ROX filer and some other things.Ubuntu gets updated every 6 months, and the upcoming April release will be a "long term" support release which IIRC means that they update it(security updates) for 2y(?
).It uses debian packaging system which IMNHO is the most problem free packaging system for linux although I will admit to having not touched an RPM system in some years since running into a horrible circular dependency incident with a Red Hat installation -- think DLL hell, but in this case it was RPM dependency hell  Debian style packaging also has alot of nice tools for easily turning source packages into .deb install packages so that your package manager knows about what's installed and can, mostly, easily uninstall it.
RPM has something similar nowadays, but again I'm not too sure how well it works from an automated standpoint, nor how much dependency checking improvements that they've made.
(In most cases you can "fix" dependencies by re-building a package or "faking" it with symlinks and a dummy package but you said simple so I doubt that you'll be doing this or want to even try it.
)Anyways back to simple:  It just ain't there for linux.
You'll eventually encounter a problem of some sort with ANY distro that's going to require you to get your hands dirtier than you would have to with say OSX or Windows.
Ubuntu has decent forums if you track your help requests closely(personally I find them a mess though), and the IRC channels can be helpful IF you have another way to access IRC WHILE attempting to fix your problems, although you could also do so by saving the instructions to do later, it's generally easier to do them as you go along for n00bs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212256</id>
	<title>Ubuntu Netbook Remix</title>
	<author>End Us3r</author>
	<datestamp>1266698580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr" title="canonical.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr</a> [canonical.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr [ canonical.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr [canonical.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212010</id>
	<title>I had the same issue as you do...</title>
	<author>kannafour</author>
	<datestamp>1266697080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I found that a new hard drive with Ubuntu (with the latest Open Office and Firefox) ideal for people who are used to Windows XP.

New hard drives are usually much faster and also will give the family members to always switch back if they really hate the Linux.

But before I suggested Linux, I first I got them used to Open Office and Firefox (with extensions like AdBlockPlus and Delicious) on Windows XP.

I also think Linux is not really for everyone...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I found that a new hard drive with Ubuntu ( with the latest Open Office and Firefox ) ideal for people who are used to Windows XP .
New hard drives are usually much faster and also will give the family members to always switch back if they really hate the Linux .
But before I suggested Linux , I first I got them used to Open Office and Firefox ( with extensions like AdBlockPlus and Delicious ) on Windows XP .
I also think Linux is not really for everyone.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found that a new hard drive with Ubuntu (with the latest Open Office and Firefox) ideal for people who are used to Windows XP.
New hard drives are usually much faster and also will give the family members to always switch back if they really hate the Linux.
But before I suggested Linux, I first I got them used to Open Office and Firefox (with extensions like AdBlockPlus and Delicious) on Windows XP.
I also think Linux is not really for everyone...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216400</id>
	<title>Simple answer</title>
	<author>Borg Bucolic</author>
	<datestamp>1266690780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's the simplest and best answer, and it worked for me. Not all Linux distro's work equally on different machines. If they did, there would be a need for so many specialty ones. Just download a variety live boots (that install) and try them out. In general, if they work from live boot, they will work when installed. BTW, my autistic daughter really resisted Linux when it was installed on her netbook (a step needed when Windows trashed itself just updating), but after a couple of weeks grumbling she really likes it now. So, expect some complaints anyways. Better yet, why not get these people involved in the selection process?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's the simplest and best answer , and it worked for me .
Not all Linux distro 's work equally on different machines .
If they did , there would be a need for so many specialty ones .
Just download a variety live boots ( that install ) and try them out .
In general , if they work from live boot , they will work when installed .
BTW , my autistic daughter really resisted Linux when it was installed on her netbook ( a step needed when Windows trashed itself just updating ) , but after a couple of weeks grumbling she really likes it now .
So , expect some complaints anyways .
Better yet , why not get these people involved in the selection process ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's the simplest and best answer, and it worked for me.
Not all Linux distro's work equally on different machines.
If they did, there would be a need for so many specialty ones.
Just download a variety live boots (that install) and try them out.
In general, if they work from live boot, they will work when installed.
BTW, my autistic daughter really resisted Linux when it was installed on her netbook (a step needed when Windows trashed itself just updating), but after a couple of weeks grumbling she really likes it now.
So, expect some complaints anyways.
Better yet, why not get these people involved in the selection process?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217818</id>
	<title>Look and feel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266761220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give them: http://ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/WindowsLooks</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give them : http : //ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/WindowsLooks</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give them: http://ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/WindowsLooks</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211512</id>
	<title>Red Flag, Vixta or Ubuntu</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1266694560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, there's a Chinese distribution that I <i>believe</i> is made to look like whatever Windows look and feel you want <a href="http://gudanglinux.net/gmc/images/stories/450/redflag-5.0-green450.jpg" title="gudanglinux.net">right out of the box</a> [gudanglinux.net].  I'm pretty sure it <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Flag\_Linux" title="wikipedia.org">supports English</a> [wikipedia.org] so don't let the Chinese characters scare you away.  <br> <br>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUdzF3TNLJo" title="youtube.com">Vixta</a> [youtube.com] does a good job of looking like Vista.  <br> <br>

Of course, these <b>pale</b> in comparison to the standard <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com/" title="ubuntu.com">Ubuntu</a> [ubuntu.com] as far as support goes.  Screw the Windows look and feel, that'd be my recommendation.  Depending on how much time you want to sink into customizing this for them, there are <a href="http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/how-to-get-the-windows-7-look-in-linux-658209" title="techradar.com">tutorials for making Linux look like Windows 7</a> [techradar.com].  <br> <br>

Hope this helps.  I also hope they don't need this distribution to do more than surf the web, get pictures off their camera and create documents<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hate to see them pick up a game or some funky peripheral/hardware that don't have drivers in Linux and then keep bugging you about why their GenCorp Brand Wal-Mart purchased Mickey Mouse USB LED Display toy doesn't have software to make it light up on their desk.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , there 's a Chinese distribution that I believe is made to look like whatever Windows look and feel you want right out of the box [ gudanglinux.net ] .
I 'm pretty sure it supports English [ wikipedia.org ] so do n't let the Chinese characters scare you away .
Vixta [ youtube.com ] does a good job of looking like Vista .
Of course , these pale in comparison to the standard Ubuntu [ ubuntu.com ] as far as support goes .
Screw the Windows look and feel , that 'd be my recommendation .
Depending on how much time you want to sink into customizing this for them , there are tutorials for making Linux look like Windows 7 [ techradar.com ] .
Hope this helps .
I also hope they do n't need this distribution to do more than surf the web , get pictures off their camera and create documents ... hate to see them pick up a game or some funky peripheral/hardware that do n't have drivers in Linux and then keep bugging you about why their GenCorp Brand Wal-Mart purchased Mickey Mouse USB LED Display toy does n't have software to make it light up on their desk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, there's a Chinese distribution that I believe is made to look like whatever Windows look and feel you want right out of the box [gudanglinux.net].
I'm pretty sure it supports English [wikipedia.org] so don't let the Chinese characters scare you away.
Vixta [youtube.com] does a good job of looking like Vista.
Of course, these pale in comparison to the standard Ubuntu [ubuntu.com] as far as support goes.
Screw the Windows look and feel, that'd be my recommendation.
Depending on how much time you want to sink into customizing this for them, there are tutorials for making Linux look like Windows 7 [techradar.com].
Hope this helps.
I also hope they don't need this distribution to do more than surf the web, get pictures off their camera and create documents ... hate to see them pick up a game or some funky peripheral/hardware that don't have drivers in Linux and then keep bugging you about why their GenCorp Brand Wal-Mart purchased Mickey Mouse USB LED Display toy doesn't have software to make it light up on their desk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211360</id>
	<title>Tyrone the Linux Nigger's choice:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266693780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tyrone the Linux Nigger endorses OO-BOOON-TOOO cuz it fly, yo. I beez buyin' fo'ties 'n' chicken wit' da money I save runnin' OO-BOOOON-TOOO. Kuk Ga-hyuk schlimma-schlamma!<blockquote><div><p>How do you want it?<br>
 How does it feel?<br>
Comin up as a nigga in the NIX game,<br>
livin in yo chick's brain, I'm for real</p></div>
</blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tyrone the Linux Nigger endorses OO-BOOON-TOOO cuz it fly , yo .
I beez buyin ' fo'ties 'n ' chicken wit ' da money I save runnin ' OO-BOOOON-TOOO .
Kuk Ga-hyuk schlimma-schlamma ! How do you want it ?
How does it feel ?
Comin up as a nigga in the NIX game , livin in yo chick 's brain , I 'm for real</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tyrone the Linux Nigger endorses OO-BOOON-TOOO cuz it fly, yo.
I beez buyin' fo'ties 'n' chicken wit' da money I save runnin' OO-BOOOON-TOOO.
Kuk Ga-hyuk schlimma-schlamma!How do you want it?
How does it feel?
Comin up as a nigga in the NIX game,
livin in yo chick's brain, I'm for real

	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214710</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>sarhjinian</author>
	<datestamp>1266673620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Had you tried Songbird?  I went through just about every music player available for Linux/'UNIX and Songbird had the lowest "barrier to entry" if you're like me and like to let your music app manage what goes on your iPod (eg, smart playlists based on frequency, etc) in a manner similar to iTunes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Had you tried Songbird ?
I went through just about every music player available for Linux/'UNIX and Songbird had the lowest " barrier to entry " if you 're like me and like to let your music app manage what goes on your iPod ( eg , smart playlists based on frequency , etc ) in a manner similar to iTunes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Had you tried Songbird?
I went through just about every music player available for Linux/'UNIX and Songbird had the lowest "barrier to entry" if you're like me and like to let your music app manage what goes on your iPod (eg, smart playlists based on frequency, etc) in a manner similar to iTunes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212148</id>
	<title>The classic mistake</title>
	<author>rudy\_wayne</author>
	<datestamp>1266698040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> I'm not too concerned about software (most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments)</p></div></blockquote><p>Been there, done that.  This is the classic mistake.</p><p>Yes, their needs are minmal now.  And as long as they never change for the rest of their life, then things will be fine.  But that rarely happens.  People eventually want to do more.  They will be in a store and see a program they would like to buy.  OOPS, sorry.  No run on Linux.  They will want to buy a scanner so they can put all their old photos on their computer and maybe e-mail them to friends/family.  So they go over to Best Buy.  OOPS, sorry.  No run on Linux.</p><p>
&nbsp; Whether someone uses Windows or Linux is irrelevant.  What matters is s software (apps) and hardware (drivers).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not too concerned about software ( most of them only need browser , IM , VLC , mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments ) Been there , done that .
This is the classic mistake.Yes , their needs are minmal now .
And as long as they never change for the rest of their life , then things will be fine .
But that rarely happens .
People eventually want to do more .
They will be in a store and see a program they would like to buy .
OOPS , sorry .
No run on Linux .
They will want to buy a scanner so they can put all their old photos on their computer and maybe e-mail them to friends/family .
So they go over to Best Buy .
OOPS , sorry .
No run on Linux .
  Whether someone uses Windows or Linux is irrelevant .
What matters is s software ( apps ) and hardware ( drivers ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I'm not too concerned about software (most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments)Been there, done that.
This is the classic mistake.Yes, their needs are minmal now.
And as long as they never change for the rest of their life, then things will be fine.
But that rarely happens.
People eventually want to do more.
They will be in a store and see a program they would like to buy.
OOPS, sorry.
No run on Linux.
They will want to buy a scanner so they can put all their old photos on their computer and maybe e-mail them to friends/family.
So they go over to Best Buy.
OOPS, sorry.
No run on Linux.
  Whether someone uses Windows or Linux is irrelevant.
What matters is s software (apps) and hardware (drivers).
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216656</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>fast turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1266694860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a lot of difference between satisfactory and properly. First off, properly means working right. Satisfactory means working the Way I expect it to instead of your idiotness thought it should.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a lot of difference between satisfactory and properly .
First off , properly means working right .
Satisfactory means working the Way I expect it to instead of your idiotness thought it should .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a lot of difference between satisfactory and properly.
First off, properly means working right.
Satisfactory means working the Way I expect it to instead of your idiotness thought it should.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211868</id>
	<title>Have them use what you use.</title>
	<author>fahrbot-bot</author>
	<datestamp>1266696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Inevitably, they will have question and/or problems.  Using the same distro will allow you research issues on your own system and it will be easier should you want to walk them through things remotely. In addition, it will foster a sense that you're all in this together.  If you use something different, your efforts will be increased and you'll have to constantly answer questions like, "Why do you use something different than what you recommended."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Inevitably , they will have question and/or problems .
Using the same distro will allow you research issues on your own system and it will be easier should you want to walk them through things remotely .
In addition , it will foster a sense that you 're all in this together .
If you use something different , your efforts will be increased and you 'll have to constantly answer questions like , " Why do you use something different than what you recommended .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Inevitably, they will have question and/or problems.
Using the same distro will allow you research issues on your own system and it will be easier should you want to walk them through things remotely.
In addition, it will foster a sense that you're all in this together.
If you use something different, your efforts will be increased and you'll have to constantly answer questions like, "Why do you use something different than what you recommended.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211742</id>
	<title>Sacrilegious suggestion follows</title>
	<author>Progman3K</author>
	<datestamp>1266695640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use Linux ALL the time as my main OS and would never consider using Windows again, nor the Mac, having been burned far too often by both of them.</p><p>That being said, I use the free MS PowerPoint viewer via Wine to be able to properly view PowerPoint attachments.</p><p>OpenOffice has never been able to play those properly, but the free viewer plus Wine combo work absolutely perfectly.</p><p>In essence, I suppose what I'm saying is that for closed formats like PP, MS still does it best.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use Linux ALL the time as my main OS and would never consider using Windows again , nor the Mac , having been burned far too often by both of them.That being said , I use the free MS PowerPoint viewer via Wine to be able to properly view PowerPoint attachments.OpenOffice has never been able to play those properly , but the free viewer plus Wine combo work absolutely perfectly.In essence , I suppose what I 'm saying is that for closed formats like PP , MS still does it best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use Linux ALL the time as my main OS and would never consider using Windows again, nor the Mac, having been burned far too often by both of them.That being said, I use the free MS PowerPoint viewer via Wine to be able to properly view PowerPoint attachments.OpenOffice has never been able to play those properly, but the free viewer plus Wine combo work absolutely perfectly.In essence, I suppose what I'm saying is that for closed formats like PP, MS still does it best.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214542</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Again, this is <em>Ask Slashdot</em>, not <em>Ask the guy who asks Slashdot</em>. If you don't have anything valuable to contribute, <em>don't</em>.</p><p>Also, updates. MS is dropping support already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Again , this is Ask Slashdot , not Ask the guy who asks Slashdot .
If you do n't have anything valuable to contribute , do n't.Also , updates .
MS is dropping support already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Again, this is Ask Slashdot, not Ask the guy who asks Slashdot.
If you don't have anything valuable to contribute, don't.Also, updates.
MS is dropping support already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218416</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266767400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4</p></div><p>maybe you should reconsider the way you're assembling your boxes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>of the 6 PCs I currently have at home , it failed to install on 4maybe you should reconsider the way you 're assembling your boxes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4maybe you should reconsider the way you're assembling your boxes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211554</id>
	<title>OSX</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't bother upgrading the OS. Wait till they buy a new computer and make sure its a Mac. They'll love it because it always works. You'll love it because (a) it always works and (b) you can pull up a unix shell prompt if you ever need to do anything remotely complicated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't bother upgrading the OS .
Wait till they buy a new computer and make sure its a Mac .
They 'll love it because it always works .
You 'll love it because ( a ) it always works and ( b ) you can pull up a unix shell prompt if you ever need to do anything remotely complicated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't bother upgrading the OS.
Wait till they buy a new computer and make sure its a Mac.
They'll love it because it always works.
You'll love it because (a) it always works and (b) you can pull up a unix shell prompt if you ever need to do anything remotely complicated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213460</id>
	<title>Re:I prefer Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266663120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know you don't have a wife.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know you do n't have a wife .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know you don't have a wife.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216256</id>
	<title>hahahahah they are going to HATE YOU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266689340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hohohohohohhehehehehhahahahahaha</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hohohohohohhehehehehhahahahahaha</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hohohohohohhehehehehhahahahahaha</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217646</id>
	<title>Well done? Reasonably active?</title>
	<author>Provocateur</author>
	<datestamp>1266758700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pick two. Oh, wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pick two .
Oh , wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pick two.
Oh, wait...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217176</id>
	<title>ubuntu with xp theme</title>
	<author>linuxease.com</author>
	<datestamp>1266748320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ubuntu with xp theme <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Gl-2wK444" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Gl-2wK444</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu with xp theme http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = N3Gl-2wK444 [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu with xp theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Gl-2wK444 [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211588</id>
	<title>Look and feel</title>
	<author>rugatero</author>
	<datestamp>1266694980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface &mdash; system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>Any distro running GNOME, KDE or XFCE (that is, almost any distro by default) can be easily configured in this manner.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... menu items similar to those of Windows.</p></div><p>For the love of God, no.  This is one of the areas where Linux by and large kills Windows in terms of usability. It won't take long for them to appreciate the (mostly) logical grouping of programs in, for instance, Ubuntu's applications menu. The Windows Start menu is a nightmare by comparison.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?</p></div><p>Sure, but I wouldn't recommend them. Whilst I'm all for easing the transition, there's nothing wrong with at least acknowledging that a transition is taking place, so just give them a "normal" GNOME of KDE desktop.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I 'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface    system bar on the bottom with clock , trash , info on the right , menu on the left ...Any distro running GNOME , KDE or XFCE ( that is , almost any distro by default ) can be easily configured in this manner .
... menu items similar to those of Windows.For the love of God , no .
This is one of the areas where Linux by and large kills Windows in terms of usability .
It wo n't take long for them to appreciate the ( mostly ) logical grouping of programs in , for instance , Ubuntu 's applications menu .
The Windows Start menu is a nightmare by comparison.Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead ? Sure , but I would n't recommend them .
Whilst I 'm all for easing the transition , there 's nothing wrong with at least acknowledging that a transition is taking place , so just give them a " normal " GNOME of KDE desktop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface — system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left ...Any distro running GNOME, KDE or XFCE (that is, almost any distro by default) can be easily configured in this manner.
... menu items similar to those of Windows.For the love of God, no.
This is one of the areas where Linux by and large kills Windows in terms of usability.
It won't take long for them to appreciate the (mostly) logical grouping of programs in, for instance, Ubuntu's applications menu.
The Windows Start menu is a nightmare by comparison.Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?Sure, but I wouldn't recommend them.
Whilst I'm all for easing the transition, there's nothing wrong with at least acknowledging that a transition is taking place, so just give them a "normal" GNOME of KDE desktop.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215936</id>
	<title>Re:the answer to your question, and then some</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266686100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AWM is horribly slow. I like the idea but I don't think a GUI written in python is going to be ready for prime time for a while</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AWM is horribly slow .
I like the idea but I do n't think a GUI written in python is going to be ready for prime time for a while</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AWM is horribly slow.
I like the idea but I don't think a GUI written in python is going to be ready for prime time for a while</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213692</id>
	<title>A few suggestions</title>
	<author>rcolbert</author>
	<datestamp>1266664920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care which OS you select.  There are a number of fine choices. Of course, the topic itself invites a lot of trash-talk, but I would say most of it without proper context.  I'm not hearing a whole lot about why one solution is better given that it will be run by non-technical people, and yet supported by you.</p><p>In an effort to be constructive, here's what I suggest.  Assuming you run Windows now, if you don't already have a copy, download (for trial at least - but I think a purchase would be money well spent) a copy of VMware Workstation.  Then you can install and compare a number of different Linux distros from the comfort of your own PC.  I will also be good to have a reference version of the OS you choose installed and available to you if you'll be supporting folks who run it. I'd stick with mainstream distros purely from a pragmatic standpoint and a belief that popular distros like Ubuntu and OpenSUSE will continue to get a lot of care and attention.  The top 3 or 4 distros are usually on most vendors hardware or software compatibility lists.</p><p>If it's not about cost, then Windows 7 is still an option you should keep on the table.  Look and feel only speak to 'where is the calculator icon' type of questions.  Where I find most non-technical people struggling is lacking in concepts and therefore lacking in context.  The basic ideas behind Windows remain unchanged.</p><p>Anecdotally, in the distant past I helped migrate a small office of about a hundred folks from Mac OS 6.x to Windows as part of a larger corporate initiative.  The Monday morning following the migration, one of the users had created a folder called "System" at the root of C:\, and dragged as much of the Windows folder as possible over to the new System folder.  Thankfully, those were the days when you could still boot to DOS and clean up fairly simply.  Still, we had never anticipated someone doing that, because we were focused on simply teaching them how to use the new systems.  And yes, it was evil to migrate 100 Mac users to Windows, but that is beside the point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off , I do n't have any skin in the game and do n't care which OS you select .
There are a number of fine choices .
Of course , the topic itself invites a lot of trash-talk , but I would say most of it without proper context .
I 'm not hearing a whole lot about why one solution is better given that it will be run by non-technical people , and yet supported by you.In an effort to be constructive , here 's what I suggest .
Assuming you run Windows now , if you do n't already have a copy , download ( for trial at least - but I think a purchase would be money well spent ) a copy of VMware Workstation .
Then you can install and compare a number of different Linux distros from the comfort of your own PC .
I will also be good to have a reference version of the OS you choose installed and available to you if you 'll be supporting folks who run it .
I 'd stick with mainstream distros purely from a pragmatic standpoint and a belief that popular distros like Ubuntu and OpenSUSE will continue to get a lot of care and attention .
The top 3 or 4 distros are usually on most vendors hardware or software compatibility lists.If it 's not about cost , then Windows 7 is still an option you should keep on the table .
Look and feel only speak to 'where is the calculator icon ' type of questions .
Where I find most non-technical people struggling is lacking in concepts and therefore lacking in context .
The basic ideas behind Windows remain unchanged.Anecdotally , in the distant past I helped migrate a small office of about a hundred folks from Mac OS 6.x to Windows as part of a larger corporate initiative .
The Monday morning following the migration , one of the users had created a folder called " System " at the root of C : \ , and dragged as much of the Windows folder as possible over to the new System folder .
Thankfully , those were the days when you could still boot to DOS and clean up fairly simply .
Still , we had never anticipated someone doing that , because we were focused on simply teaching them how to use the new systems .
And yes , it was evil to migrate 100 Mac users to Windows , but that is beside the point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care which OS you select.
There are a number of fine choices.
Of course, the topic itself invites a lot of trash-talk, but I would say most of it without proper context.
I'm not hearing a whole lot about why one solution is better given that it will be run by non-technical people, and yet supported by you.In an effort to be constructive, here's what I suggest.
Assuming you run Windows now, if you don't already have a copy, download (for trial at least - but I think a purchase would be money well spent) a copy of VMware Workstation.
Then you can install and compare a number of different Linux distros from the comfort of your own PC.
I will also be good to have a reference version of the OS you choose installed and available to you if you'll be supporting folks who run it.
I'd stick with mainstream distros purely from a pragmatic standpoint and a belief that popular distros like Ubuntu and OpenSUSE will continue to get a lot of care and attention.
The top 3 or 4 distros are usually on most vendors hardware or software compatibility lists.If it's not about cost, then Windows 7 is still an option you should keep on the table.
Look and feel only speak to 'where is the calculator icon' type of questions.
Where I find most non-technical people struggling is lacking in concepts and therefore lacking in context.
The basic ideas behind Windows remain unchanged.Anecdotally, in the distant past I helped migrate a small office of about a hundred folks from Mac OS 6.x to Windows as part of a larger corporate initiative.
The Monday morning following the migration, one of the users had created a folder called "System" at the root of C:\, and dragged as much of the Windows folder as possible over to the new System folder.
Thankfully, those were the days when you could still boot to DOS and clean up fairly simply.
Still, we had never anticipated someone doing that, because we were focused on simply teaching them how to use the new systems.
And yes, it was evil to migrate 100 Mac users to Windows, but that is beside the point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211458</id>
	<title>Mandriva Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mandriva Linux. Especially if you get the Powerpack. It has all the extras built right into the DVD so you don't have to go out and find it. I would also recommend getting the 32-bit version since it's more stable. I also site this article in Linux magazine:

<a href="http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html" title="linux-mag.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html</a> [linux-mag.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mandriva Linux .
Especially if you get the Powerpack .
It has all the extras built right into the DVD so you do n't have to go out and find it .
I would also recommend getting the 32-bit version since it 's more stable .
I also site this article in Linux magazine : http : //www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html [ linux-mag.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mandriva Linux.
Especially if you get the Powerpack.
It has all the extras built right into the DVD so you don't have to go out and find it.
I would also recommend getting the 32-bit version since it's more stable.
I also site this article in Linux magazine:

http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html [linux-mag.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31306976</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267381200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nah. Kick 'em in at the deep end, sink or swim. Slackware 13, set their wi-fi. PPP or 3g for them so they can google. They'll thank you in a year or two<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nah .
Kick 'em in at the deep end , sink or swim .
Slackware 13 , set their wi-fi .
PPP or 3g for them so they can google .
They 'll thank you in a year or two : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nah.
Kick 'em in at the deep end, sink or swim.
Slackware 13, set their wi-fi.
PPP or 3g for them so they can google.
They'll thank you in a year or two :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219630</id>
	<title>Don't make waves</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1266776880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The first step is training them to use Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, and VLC on their Windows machine. After a month or so of smooth sailing....</i> </p><p>After a month or so of smooth sailing with FOSS apps running under Windows, why do they need Linux?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first step is training them to use Firefox , Thunderbird , OpenOffice , and VLC on their Windows machine .
After a month or so of smooth sailing.... After a month or so of smooth sailing with FOSS apps running under Windows , why do they need Linux ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first step is training them to use Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, and VLC on their Windows machine.
After a month or so of smooth sailing.... After a month or so of smooth sailing with FOSS apps running under Windows, why do they need Linux?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211546</id>
	<title>Mint</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd say Mint is a good choice, though I'm certainly biased from using it for years now. It is easy to install, comes with everything most users need, and is Ubuntu-based, meaning anything you don't find should be easy to add. The included software manager makes it super easy to pick and choose optional software. At least give this one a look, as it has become quite popular, according to distrowatch.com and some other linux reviewers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say Mint is a good choice , though I 'm certainly biased from using it for years now .
It is easy to install , comes with everything most users need , and is Ubuntu-based , meaning anything you do n't find should be easy to add .
The included software manager makes it super easy to pick and choose optional software .
At least give this one a look , as it has become quite popular , according to distrowatch.com and some other linux reviewers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say Mint is a good choice, though I'm certainly biased from using it for years now.
It is easy to install, comes with everything most users need, and is Ubuntu-based, meaning anything you don't find should be easy to add.
The included software manager makes it super easy to pick and choose optional software.
At least give this one a look, as it has become quite popular, according to distrowatch.com and some other linux reviewers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>InsertWittyNameHere</author>
	<datestamp>1266694140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Give them Ubuntu. Out of the box it's similar in look and feel to windows. If you want it to look like OS X then install AWN and Compiz (or if their system is old/slow turn on Metacity instead of Compiz) and the advanced effects thing (I forget what its called but it lets you make those squishy windows and the cube for switching between workspaces and lots of other effects.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give them Ubuntu .
Out of the box it 's similar in look and feel to windows .
If you want it to look like OS X then install AWN and Compiz ( or if their system is old/slow turn on Metacity instead of Compiz ) and the advanced effects thing ( I forget what its called but it lets you make those squishy windows and the cube for switching between workspaces and lots of other effects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give them Ubuntu.
Out of the box it's similar in look and feel to windows.
If you want it to look like OS X then install AWN and Compiz (or if their system is old/slow turn on Metacity instead of Compiz) and the advanced effects thing (I forget what its called but it lets you make those squishy windows and the cube for switching between workspaces and lots of other effects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216918</id>
	<title>Ubuntu with KDE 3.5</title>
	<author>milkonoj</author>
	<datestamp>1266785640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It sure looks like Windows</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sure looks like Windows</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sure looks like Windows</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31229710</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266856560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>[snip]of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4[/snip]</i> </p><p> <i>[snip]Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs[/snip]</i> </p><p>May I ask where those four "old" PCs came from?  Not that I want to deflect blame from Linux.  It could very well be the problem.  But... we're not talking about computers you grabbed off the sidewalk or systems which "weren't working so good anymore" that they let you bring home from work, are we?  Sometimes the software ain't the problem...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ snip ] of the 6 PCs I currently have at home , it failed to install on 4 [ /snip ] [ snip ] Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs [ /snip ] May I ask where those four " old " PCs came from ?
Not that I want to deflect blame from Linux .
It could very well be the problem .
But... we 're not talking about computers you grabbed off the sidewalk or systems which " were n't working so good anymore " that they let you bring home from work , are we ?
Sometimes the software ai n't the problem.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> [snip]of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4[/snip]  [snip]Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs[/snip] May I ask where those four "old" PCs came from?
Not that I want to deflect blame from Linux.
It could very well be the problem.
But... we're not talking about computers you grabbed off the sidewalk or systems which "weren't working so good anymore" that they let you bring home from work, are we?
Sometimes the software ain't the problem...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216032</id>
	<title>Re: Mint</title>
	<author>Giant Electronic Bra</author>
	<datestamp>1266687000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can go you one better even, lol. My boss dropped Mint on his laptop on his own initiative. I won't say he's totally tech illiterate but he's not any kind of genius at that kind of stuff either. Give him Power Basic and he can write some simple ETL scripts and he knows enough to set up stuff thats not too complex. Still, Mint gave him no problems, came up onto his wireless network fine and does everything he normally needs to do. When I fired the machine up the other day to take a look it was pretty nice. There are a few Ubuntuisms that don't excite me that much, but for the average user its a VERY clean looking setup Gnome isn't my favorite but I had no problems and he's happy with it.</p><p>I'm confident that any legacy software issues aside I could set up an office using any of several decent desktop distros like Ubuntu, openSuSe, Fedora, or Mandriva and things would work fine. Drop in a CentOS based LDAP server for centralized auth and file serving. Probably not quite as slick as a Windows small office setup, but a LOT cheaper and less costly to support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can go you one better even , lol .
My boss dropped Mint on his laptop on his own initiative .
I wo n't say he 's totally tech illiterate but he 's not any kind of genius at that kind of stuff either .
Give him Power Basic and he can write some simple ETL scripts and he knows enough to set up stuff thats not too complex .
Still , Mint gave him no problems , came up onto his wireless network fine and does everything he normally needs to do .
When I fired the machine up the other day to take a look it was pretty nice .
There are a few Ubuntuisms that do n't excite me that much , but for the average user its a VERY clean looking setup Gnome is n't my favorite but I had no problems and he 's happy with it.I 'm confident that any legacy software issues aside I could set up an office using any of several decent desktop distros like Ubuntu , openSuSe , Fedora , or Mandriva and things would work fine .
Drop in a CentOS based LDAP server for centralized auth and file serving .
Probably not quite as slick as a Windows small office setup , but a LOT cheaper and less costly to support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can go you one better even, lol.
My boss dropped Mint on his laptop on his own initiative.
I won't say he's totally tech illiterate but he's not any kind of genius at that kind of stuff either.
Give him Power Basic and he can write some simple ETL scripts and he knows enough to set up stuff thats not too complex.
Still, Mint gave him no problems, came up onto his wireless network fine and does everything he normally needs to do.
When I fired the machine up the other day to take a look it was pretty nice.
There are a few Ubuntuisms that don't excite me that much, but for the average user its a VERY clean looking setup Gnome isn't my favorite but I had no problems and he's happy with it.I'm confident that any legacy software issues aside I could set up an office using any of several decent desktop distros like Ubuntu, openSuSe, Fedora, or Mandriva and things would work fine.
Drop in a CentOS based LDAP server for centralized auth and file serving.
Probably not quite as slick as a Windows small office setup, but a LOT cheaper and less costly to support.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218768</id>
	<title>Re:Mandriva Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266771240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stable, easy to upgrade, can be installed on most PCs, old or new.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stable , easy to upgrade , can be installed on most PCs , old or new .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stable, easy to upgrade, can be installed on most PCs, old or new.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211876</id>
	<title>Mint</title>
	<author>Stormwatch</author>
	<datestamp>1266696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.</p></div><p>In this case, a good choice would be <a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" title="linuxmint.com"> <b>Linux Mint</b>.</a> [linuxmint.com] As a whole, it's a rather well-designed system (their motto: "from freedom came elegance."). And it's handy that it comes with the drivers and plugins that Ubuntu leaves to a separate download for (I assume) license or patent reasons.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I 'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock , trash , info on the right , menu on the left , menu items similar to those of Windows.In this case , a good choice would be Linux Mint .
[ linuxmint.com ] As a whole , it 's a rather well-designed system ( their motto : " from freedom came elegance. " ) .
And it 's handy that it comes with the drivers and plugins that Ubuntu leaves to a separate download for ( I assume ) license or patent reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.In this case, a good choice would be  Linux Mint.
[linuxmint.com] As a whole, it's a rather well-designed system (their motto: "from freedom came elegance.").
And it's handy that it comes with the drivers and plugins that Ubuntu leaves to a separate download for (I assume) license or patent reasons.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212874</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Beardo the Bearded</author>
	<datestamp>1266659160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've used Puppy, Ubuntu, and Mint recently, with a laundry list of other distros over the years.</p><p>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice. The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed. That means that facebook, youtube, twitter, and every other flavour-of-the-week website is going to <i>just work</i> as soon as installation is completed. If you're using other distros, you're going to have to enable the universal, guess about which open-source player and version will work, and cross your fingers. (Remember, if it fails ONCE, Linux is too complimicated.) It is based on Ubuntu, so you get a lot of support PLUS all the proprietary functionality that the average user will want.</p><p>Puppy is faster, and by a long shot. Even though it's not as polished, it is usable, so much so that my daughter can use it. (She is six.) I've got another copy running on my ancient P2 366 laptop, and it's actually usable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used Puppy , Ubuntu , and Mint recently , with a laundry list of other distros over the years.Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice .
The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed .
That means that facebook , youtube , twitter , and every other flavour-of-the-week website is going to just work as soon as installation is completed .
If you 're using other distros , you 're going to have to enable the universal , guess about which open-source player and version will work , and cross your fingers .
( Remember , if it fails ONCE , Linux is too complimicated .
) It is based on Ubuntu , so you get a lot of support PLUS all the proprietary functionality that the average user will want.Puppy is faster , and by a long shot .
Even though it 's not as polished , it is usable , so much so that my daughter can use it .
( She is six .
) I 've got another copy running on my ancient P2 366 laptop , and it 's actually usable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used Puppy, Ubuntu, and Mint recently, with a laundry list of other distros over the years.Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice.
The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed.
That means that facebook, youtube, twitter, and every other flavour-of-the-week website is going to just work as soon as installation is completed.
If you're using other distros, you're going to have to enable the universal, guess about which open-source player and version will work, and cross your fingers.
(Remember, if it fails ONCE, Linux is too complimicated.
) It is based on Ubuntu, so you get a lot of support PLUS all the proprietary functionality that the average user will want.Puppy is faster, and by a long shot.
Even though it's not as polished, it is usable, so much so that my daughter can use it.
(She is six.
) I've got another copy running on my ancient P2 366 laptop, and it's actually usable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211474</id>
	<title>1997 called...</title>
	<author>turbotroll</author>
	<datestamp>1266694380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... it wants your comment back.</p><p>Seriously folks, this question is lame on so many levels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... it wants your comment back.Seriously folks , this question is lame on so many levels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... it wants your comment back.Seriously folks, this question is lame on so many levels.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215822</id>
	<title>Don't use Linux if you are die hard windows users</title>
	<author>terryfunk</author>
	<datestamp>1266684780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Die hard windows users SHOULDN't USE Linux in any way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Die hard windows users SHOULD N't USE Linux in any way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Die hard windows users SHOULDN't USE Linux in any way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212650</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>Chaos Incarnate</author>
	<datestamp>1266657780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Give your friend Songbird.  The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes, and it supports iPod syncing out of the box.  It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores (7digital, Amazon MP3, etc) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store, plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.</p></div><p>You mean "the added bonus of lower sound quality", since the iTunes store is <i>also</i> DRM-free for music, but is AAC instead of MP3.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give your friend Songbird .
The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes , and it supports iPod syncing out of the box .
It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores ( 7digital , Amazon MP3 , etc ) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store , plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.You mean " the added bonus of lower sound quality " , since the iTunes store is also DRM-free for music , but is AAC instead of MP3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give your friend Songbird.
The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes, and it supports iPod syncing out of the box.
It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores (7digital, Amazon MP3, etc) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store, plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.You mean "the added bonus of lower sound quality", since the iTunes store is also DRM-free for music, but is AAC instead of MP3.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212160</id>
	<title>I find KDE less frustrating than Gnome</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1266698100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>* It has more of the little tools which people expect and use.<br>* The tools are better integrated with one another. Gnome tools are standalone.<br>* It's faster (lower latency menus, windows etc).<br>* It works more reliably. The taskbar for example works, horizontally or vertically.<br>* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.<br>* It's easier to customize/configure than Gnome.</p><p>Overall, KDE (3.5, haven't upgraded) just works well. The problem is the application namespace. The "K" thing. Seriously. Get rid of it. I don't need to know that I'm using Kontact, Knode, Karm Kaddressbook or or Kmail. Hide all that bollocks at the filesystem level.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* It has more of the little tools which people expect and use .
* The tools are better integrated with one another .
Gnome tools are standalone .
* It 's faster ( lower latency menus , windows etc ) .
* It works more reliably .
The taskbar for example works , horizontally or vertically .
* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome .
* It 's easier to customize/configure than Gnome.Overall , KDE ( 3.5 , have n't upgraded ) just works well .
The problem is the application namespace .
The " K " thing .
Seriously. Get rid of it .
I do n't need to know that I 'm using Kontact , Knode , Karm Kaddressbook or or Kmail .
Hide all that bollocks at the filesystem level .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>* It has more of the little tools which people expect and use.
* The tools are better integrated with one another.
Gnome tools are standalone.
* It's faster (lower latency menus, windows etc).
* It works more reliably.
The taskbar for example works, horizontally or vertically.
* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.
* It's easier to customize/configure than Gnome.Overall, KDE (3.5, haven't upgraded) just works well.
The problem is the application namespace.
The "K" thing.
Seriously. Get rid of it.
I don't need to know that I'm using Kontact, Knode, Karm Kaddressbook or or Kmail.
Hide all that bollocks at the filesystem level.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211508</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217008</id>
	<title>Re:Mint</title>
	<author>boondaburrah</author>
	<datestamp>1266744360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Up until I discovered Linux Mint I would recommend ubuntu for people who hadn't used linux before. Ubuntu has a great community and support system behind it, and it was relatively easy to install packages. However, I always had to either walk through or setup non-free software that refused to follow the package manager (ex. flash, java, dvd playback, etc) and while some people were good at picking up new interfaces as long as they made some vague amount of sense, others may really need that start menu. That's where Linux Mint saves ridiculous amounts of time. Flash, Java, and dvd playback are already there, and while it doesn't try and copy windows, it's layout is much more similar that ubuntu's. It's got a main menu that looks an awful lot like XP's (though I never use "favourites mode") only less bubbly (thank god) and has a default desktop layout that makes sense to former windows users, as well as a control panel window (big plus). I've always been weary about designs similar to windows, as they generally try too hard, but mint seems to keep to it's own design, making it feel more like an OS and less like a clunky imitation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Up until I discovered Linux Mint I would recommend ubuntu for people who had n't used linux before .
Ubuntu has a great community and support system behind it , and it was relatively easy to install packages .
However , I always had to either walk through or setup non-free software that refused to follow the package manager ( ex .
flash , java , dvd playback , etc ) and while some people were good at picking up new interfaces as long as they made some vague amount of sense , others may really need that start menu .
That 's where Linux Mint saves ridiculous amounts of time .
Flash , Java , and dvd playback are already there , and while it does n't try and copy windows , it 's layout is much more similar that ubuntu 's .
It 's got a main menu that looks an awful lot like XP 's ( though I never use " favourites mode " ) only less bubbly ( thank god ) and has a default desktop layout that makes sense to former windows users , as well as a control panel window ( big plus ) .
I 've always been weary about designs similar to windows , as they generally try too hard , but mint seems to keep to it 's own design , making it feel more like an OS and less like a clunky imitation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Up until I discovered Linux Mint I would recommend ubuntu for people who hadn't used linux before.
Ubuntu has a great community and support system behind it, and it was relatively easy to install packages.
However, I always had to either walk through or setup non-free software that refused to follow the package manager (ex.
flash, java, dvd playback, etc) and while some people were good at picking up new interfaces as long as they made some vague amount of sense, others may really need that start menu.
That's where Linux Mint saves ridiculous amounts of time.
Flash, Java, and dvd playback are already there, and while it doesn't try and copy windows, it's layout is much more similar that ubuntu's.
It's got a main menu that looks an awful lot like XP's (though I never use "favourites mode") only less bubbly (thank god) and has a default desktop layout that makes sense to former windows users, as well as a control panel window (big plus).
I've always been weary about designs similar to windows, as they generally try too hard, but mint seems to keep to it's own design, making it feel more like an OS and less like a clunky imitation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216100</id>
	<title>You should not be providing computer support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266687600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously. Forget all about it. The fact that you have to ask which distro is best is a huge clue that you do not know enough about Linux to support other people using it. Don't support their Windows desktops either. Let them figure things themselves out, and they can take their computers to Best Buy to get it fixed when it breaks.</p><p>Your problem is this. You are going to get questions, lots of questions. How do I do this, how do I do that. How does this work? It doesn't matter which OS you're supporting, it's going to be real work answering questions and making tweaks. You have to be able to do things in seconds. If you cannot, then each question will take at least fifteen minutes of your time while you do research and you'll slowly find your life being consumed by the need to provide for other people's convenience. You'll be fielding questions over the phone while you're away from your computer.</p><p>The nominal answer to your question is ANY distro that you know like the back of your hand, you can support. Personally, I support Ubuntu. I use it at home and at work. I install the same OS on servers and on desktops. If I have to do research, then fine, I was eventually going to have to do that research anyway for my personal use. My clients pay me one rate for Ubuntu and a much higher one for Windows. Soon I won't be doing any Windows support. My clients can move to Ubuntu or move to Best Buy.</p><p>Honestly if you're the regular sort of power user who mainly works on computers for your own amusement/work, you do not possess the sorts of skills that lead well into doing support. Trying to do these things, even for your family, is asking for trouble and to be treated like shit and taken advantage of. The best and only way to do support is to basically be their sysadmin. You're the expert, they must listen to you, if you say no, they must accept it. If you can't accept that kind of responsibility gracefully, don't support them. And don't suggest new software as a way to try to help them cut down on their problems. Their problems are not their software, it's that they don't know what they're doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
Forget all about it .
The fact that you have to ask which distro is best is a huge clue that you do not know enough about Linux to support other people using it .
Do n't support their Windows desktops either .
Let them figure things themselves out , and they can take their computers to Best Buy to get it fixed when it breaks.Your problem is this .
You are going to get questions , lots of questions .
How do I do this , how do I do that .
How does this work ?
It does n't matter which OS you 're supporting , it 's going to be real work answering questions and making tweaks .
You have to be able to do things in seconds .
If you can not , then each question will take at least fifteen minutes of your time while you do research and you 'll slowly find your life being consumed by the need to provide for other people 's convenience .
You 'll be fielding questions over the phone while you 're away from your computer.The nominal answer to your question is ANY distro that you know like the back of your hand , you can support .
Personally , I support Ubuntu .
I use it at home and at work .
I install the same OS on servers and on desktops .
If I have to do research , then fine , I was eventually going to have to do that research anyway for my personal use .
My clients pay me one rate for Ubuntu and a much higher one for Windows .
Soon I wo n't be doing any Windows support .
My clients can move to Ubuntu or move to Best Buy.Honestly if you 're the regular sort of power user who mainly works on computers for your own amusement/work , you do not possess the sorts of skills that lead well into doing support .
Trying to do these things , even for your family , is asking for trouble and to be treated like shit and taken advantage of .
The best and only way to do support is to basically be their sysadmin .
You 're the expert , they must listen to you , if you say no , they must accept it .
If you ca n't accept that kind of responsibility gracefully , do n't support them .
And do n't suggest new software as a way to try to help them cut down on their problems .
Their problems are not their software , it 's that they do n't know what they 're doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
Forget all about it.
The fact that you have to ask which distro is best is a huge clue that you do not know enough about Linux to support other people using it.
Don't support their Windows desktops either.
Let them figure things themselves out, and they can take their computers to Best Buy to get it fixed when it breaks.Your problem is this.
You are going to get questions, lots of questions.
How do I do this, how do I do that.
How does this work?
It doesn't matter which OS you're supporting, it's going to be real work answering questions and making tweaks.
You have to be able to do things in seconds.
If you cannot, then each question will take at least fifteen minutes of your time while you do research and you'll slowly find your life being consumed by the need to provide for other people's convenience.
You'll be fielding questions over the phone while you're away from your computer.The nominal answer to your question is ANY distro that you know like the back of your hand, you can support.
Personally, I support Ubuntu.
I use it at home and at work.
I install the same OS on servers and on desktops.
If I have to do research, then fine, I was eventually going to have to do that research anyway for my personal use.
My clients pay me one rate for Ubuntu and a much higher one for Windows.
Soon I won't be doing any Windows support.
My clients can move to Ubuntu or move to Best Buy.Honestly if you're the regular sort of power user who mainly works on computers for your own amusement/work, you do not possess the sorts of skills that lead well into doing support.
Trying to do these things, even for your family, is asking for trouble and to be treated like shit and taken advantage of.
The best and only way to do support is to basically be their sysadmin.
You're the expert, they must listen to you, if you say no, they must accept it.
If you can't accept that kind of responsibility gracefully, don't support them.
And don't suggest new software as a way to try to help them cut down on their problems.
Their problems are not their software, it's that they don't know what they're doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217084</id>
	<title>If your'e willing to give some support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266745920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just do it. if not, then don't.</p><p>After getting fed up with being the familys&amp;friends local IT-support for XP and vista i made a stand. If i would continue help &amp; support them, they would at least try running Ubuntu, open office , firefox, pidgin, vlc etc for some time. I also promised them a bit more support to get them started. After a initial workload (some problems with flash and some audio stuff on one computer), guess what - almost no support and no complaints.</p><p>This doesn't prove that they actually really care about FOSS or operating systems, but they know that there are free Windows-alternatives, and that they work as good as anything else. They also might as well buy a windows alternative for their next computer. Thats good enough for me too. As for me, it's more fun supporting FOSS for them, than the old MS-stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just do it .
if not , then do n't.After getting fed up with being the familys&amp;friends local IT-support for XP and vista i made a stand .
If i would continue help &amp; support them , they would at least try running Ubuntu , open office , firefox , pidgin , vlc etc for some time .
I also promised them a bit more support to get them started .
After a initial workload ( some problems with flash and some audio stuff on one computer ) , guess what - almost no support and no complaints.This does n't prove that they actually really care about FOSS or operating systems , but they know that there are free Windows-alternatives , and that they work as good as anything else .
They also might as well buy a windows alternative for their next computer .
Thats good enough for me too .
As for me , it 's more fun supporting FOSS for them , than the old MS-stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just do it.
if not, then don't.After getting fed up with being the familys&amp;friends local IT-support for XP and vista i made a stand.
If i would continue help &amp; support them, they would at least try running Ubuntu, open office , firefox, pidgin, vlc etc for some time.
I also promised them a bit more support to get them started.
After a initial workload (some problems with flash and some audio stuff on one computer), guess what - almost no support and no complaints.This doesn't prove that they actually really care about FOSS or operating systems, but they know that there are free Windows-alternatives, and that they work as good as anything else.
They also might as well buy a windows alternative for their next computer.
Thats good enough for me too.
As for me, it's more fun supporting FOSS for them, than the old MS-stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212574</id>
	<title>Who are you, some kind of overlord?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266657420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do you think you need to 'transition' people to Linux? Feeling fat and sassy because you've finally figured out how to click on an "Install" icon? Got to feeling that knowing next to nothing about Linux means you know enough that you can tell people what's best for them? Absorbing the Ubuntu political kool-aid via osmosis? Try turning the beast over; the underbelly doesn't look very good at all. And stop deciding for people. If they want your help they'll come to you, unless you've shown your expertise is best ignored.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do you think you need to 'transition ' people to Linux ?
Feeling fat and sassy because you 've finally figured out how to click on an " Install " icon ?
Got to feeling that knowing next to nothing about Linux means you know enough that you can tell people what 's best for them ?
Absorbing the Ubuntu political kool-aid via osmosis ?
Try turning the beast over ; the underbelly does n't look very good at all .
And stop deciding for people .
If they want your help they 'll come to you , unless you 've shown your expertise is best ignored .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do you think you need to 'transition' people to Linux?
Feeling fat and sassy because you've finally figured out how to click on an "Install" icon?
Got to feeling that knowing next to nothing about Linux means you know enough that you can tell people what's best for them?
Absorbing the Ubuntu political kool-aid via osmosis?
Try turning the beast over; the underbelly doesn't look very good at all.
And stop deciding for people.
If they want your help they'll come to you, unless you've shown your expertise is best ignored.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214294</id>
	<title>Re:Tyrone the Linux Nigger's choice:</title>
	<author>cosm</author>
	<datestamp>1266670380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am pretty sure 2pac just trolled here with a "How Do You Want It" spoof. There is internet after death! Yippee!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am pretty sure 2pac just trolled here with a " How Do You Want It " spoof .
There is internet after death !
Yippee !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am pretty sure 2pac just trolled here with a "How Do You Want It" spoof.
There is internet after death!
Yippee!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213640</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1266664560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
First, a little more ribbing (because you DO have it coming), and then we'll get serious
</p><p>
Obvious question:
Did you try it on something reasonably new, or were these old pieces of crap with questionable hard drives, rotting capacitors, etc.?
</p><p>
From your answer - "since it did install on my 2 latest PCs" I'm taking it that the other 4 were in fact more-or-less dumpster-ready.
</p><blockquote><div><p>though the community, as you so effectively prove, is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.</p></div>
</blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... (not finished with the ribbing, btw)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
</p><p>
If you found linux hard to install, you're simply NOT in the position to help anyone else.  They'll see you fumbling, and blame linux instead of your "un-1337 5k1lz".  Same as if you found setting up a network hard, you're not in a position to help others do the same.
</p><p>
Or a car analogy: If you can barely drive a car, you're not in a position to teach others to drive a car.
</p><p>
Or a pizza analogy: If you've only eaten store-bought, you can't say what a good pizza tastes like.
</p><p>
Or a beer analogy: If you've only drunk American beer, be careful when you travel - you'll find out American beer is "like making love in a canoe - f***ing close to water."
</p><p>
Okay, all ribbing aside - you made two mistakes.
</p><p>
1) "make it like windows". Why?  It's only going to confuse them, because they'll come to it with the wrong expectations. They'll have preconceived notions of how something is supposed to work, and get frustrated when it's not the same. That doesn't happen when they go to a mac - they EXPECT it to be different, and they don't get upset when it doesn't work the same way.
</p><p>
2) "help" - you should always be prepared to do a bit of your own research first, and to explain what you already did.  You installed it on 2 pcs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... great.  WHAT did you install is the obvious first question. And why isn't it "good enough?" And why did you have problems (we probably answered part of that above - unreasonable expectations on obsolete hardware).
</p><p>
BTW, as many others have said, linux is not Windows. Please don't try to make it into Windows. You're doing everyone a disservice, including the end user.
</p><blockquote><div><p>As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me. My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...</p></div>
</blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...?
</p><p>
Not to state the obvious, but once the system is up and running, a video driver update shouldn't change his xorg.conf file, so that's a non-issue (and you DID make a copy to WORKING.xorg.conf, right?). And if it does screw it up, he can always change it back.  If he can't learn, then he has to wait for you. Those are his options.
</p><p>
Your options include you logging in as a remote user, and with a few keystrokes, fixing his box when he screws things up. Or just deleting the appropriate desktop config file in his home directory and having him log back in - it will reset everything to sane defaults, so he can mess it up again to his hearts content. Learn to use ssh, vi, man, find, mc, and a few other commands, and you'll be good to help him no matter where you are<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , a little more ribbing ( because you DO have it coming ) , and then we 'll get serious Obvious question : Did you try it on something reasonably new , or were these old pieces of crap with questionable hard drives , rotting capacitors , etc. ?
From your answer - " since it did install on my 2 latest PCs " I 'm taking it that the other 4 were in fact more-or-less dumpster-ready .
though the community , as you so effectively prove , is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever .
... ( not finished with the ribbing , btw ) .. . If you found linux hard to install , you 're simply NOT in the position to help anyone else .
They 'll see you fumbling , and blame linux instead of your " un-1337 5k1lz " .
Same as if you found setting up a network hard , you 're not in a position to help others do the same .
Or a car analogy : If you can barely drive a car , you 're not in a position to teach others to drive a car .
Or a pizza analogy : If you 've only eaten store-bought , you ca n't say what a good pizza tastes like .
Or a beer analogy : If you 've only drunk American beer , be careful when you travel - you 'll find out American beer is " like making love in a canoe - f * * * ing close to water .
" Okay , all ribbing aside - you made two mistakes .
1 ) " make it like windows " .
Why ? It 's only going to confuse them , because they 'll come to it with the wrong expectations .
They 'll have preconceived notions of how something is supposed to work , and get frustrated when it 's not the same .
That does n't happen when they go to a mac - they EXPECT it to be different , and they do n't get upset when it does n't work the same way .
2 ) " help " - you should always be prepared to do a bit of your own research first , and to explain what you already did .
You installed it on 2 pcs ... great. WHAT did you install is the obvious first question .
And why is n't it " good enough ?
" And why did you have problems ( we probably answered part of that above - unreasonable expectations on obsolete hardware ) .
BTW , as many others have said , linux is not Windows .
Please do n't try to make it into Windows .
You 're doing everyone a disservice , including the end user .
As for making it look like Windows , my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me .
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen 's resolution.. . ... and ... ?
Not to state the obvious , but once the system is up and running , a video driver update should n't change his xorg.conf file , so that 's a non-issue ( and you DID make a copy to WORKING.xorg.conf , right ? ) .
And if it does screw it up , he can always change it back .
If he ca n't learn , then he has to wait for you .
Those are his options .
Your options include you logging in as a remote user , and with a few keystrokes , fixing his box when he screws things up .
Or just deleting the appropriate desktop config file in his home directory and having him log back in - it will reset everything to sane defaults , so he can mess it up again to his hearts content .
Learn to use ssh , vi , man , find , mc , and a few other commands , and you 'll be good to help him no matter where you are : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
First, a little more ribbing (because you DO have it coming), and then we'll get serious

Obvious question:
Did you try it on something reasonably new, or were these old pieces of crap with questionable hard drives, rotting capacitors, etc.?
From your answer - "since it did install on my 2 latest PCs" I'm taking it that the other 4 were in fact more-or-less dumpster-ready.
though the community, as you so effectively prove, is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.
... (not finished with the ribbing, btw) ...

If you found linux hard to install, you're simply NOT in the position to help anyone else.
They'll see you fumbling, and blame linux instead of your "un-1337 5k1lz".
Same as if you found setting up a network hard, you're not in a position to help others do the same.
Or a car analogy: If you can barely drive a car, you're not in a position to teach others to drive a car.
Or a pizza analogy: If you've only eaten store-bought, you can't say what a good pizza tastes like.
Or a beer analogy: If you've only drunk American beer, be careful when you travel - you'll find out American beer is "like making love in a canoe - f***ing close to water.
"

Okay, all ribbing aside - you made two mistakes.
1) "make it like windows".
Why?  It's only going to confuse them, because they'll come to it with the wrong expectations.
They'll have preconceived notions of how something is supposed to work, and get frustrated when it's not the same.
That doesn't happen when they go to a mac - they EXPECT it to be different, and they don't get upset when it doesn't work the same way.
2) "help" - you should always be prepared to do a bit of your own research first, and to explain what you already did.
You installed it on 2 pcs ... great.  WHAT did you install is the obvious first question.
And why isn't it "good enough?
" And why did you have problems (we probably answered part of that above - unreasonable expectations on obsolete hardware).
BTW, as many others have said, linux is not Windows.
Please don't try to make it into Windows.
You're doing everyone a disservice, including the end user.
As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me.
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...
 ... and ...?
Not to state the obvious, but once the system is up and running, a video driver update shouldn't change his xorg.conf file, so that's a non-issue (and you DID make a copy to WORKING.xorg.conf, right?).
And if it does screw it up, he can always change it back.
If he can't learn, then he has to wait for you.
Those are his options.
Your options include you logging in as a remote user, and with a few keystrokes, fixing his box when he screws things up.
Or just deleting the appropriate desktop config file in his home directory and having him log back in - it will reset everything to sane defaults, so he can mess it up again to his hearts content.
Learn to use ssh, vi, man, find, mc, and a few other commands, and you'll be good to help him no matter where you are :-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212298</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>End Us3r</author>
	<datestamp>1266698820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Distros such as Ubuntu Netbook Remix are nice and simple to use.

For me, the main reason is to get away from Windows and Microsoft. Free your mind and your ass will follow.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Distros such as Ubuntu Netbook Remix are nice and simple to use .
For me , the main reason is to get away from Windows and Microsoft .
Free your mind and your ass will follow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Distros such as Ubuntu Netbook Remix are nice and simple to use.
For me, the main reason is to get away from Windows and Microsoft.
Free your mind and your ass will follow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215186</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266677940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Remember, if it fails ONCE, Linux is too complimicated.</i></p><p>Imdeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember , if it fails ONCE , Linux is too complimicated.Imdeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember, if it fails ONCE, Linux is too complimicated.Imdeed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212874</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211972</id>
	<title>Ubuntu.</title>
	<author>lattyware</author>
	<datestamp>1266696900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ubuntu is the newbie distro. It has a huge community, lots of support, packages for virtually everything, and most tutorials written with it in mind.

It is definitely the most user friendly for people who don't want to deal with stuff.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu is the newbie distro .
It has a huge community , lots of support , packages for virtually everything , and most tutorials written with it in mind .
It is definitely the most user friendly for people who do n't want to deal with stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu is the newbie distro.
It has a huge community, lots of support, packages for virtually everything, and most tutorials written with it in mind.
It is definitely the most user friendly for people who don't want to deal with stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213532</id>
	<title>Recap of the answers:</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266663600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you for all the answers, especially the more constructive and helpful ones. They can be categorized as follows:</p><p>1- Don't do anything: not really satisfying.<br>-&gt; XP breaks regularly, even with antivirus, firewall, router, Firefox, non-admin user... must be PDFs or social engineering.<br>-&gt; XP is nearing EOL, so there will be a transition, either to 7 or Linux</p><p>2- Not your choice, let them choose: Mmmm... non-techies ? Someone has to choose for them. Most of 'my' users already use OOo, firefox, thunderbird and VLC, so on the apps side the transition should be OK except for games and very specific apps.</p><p>3- You're an incompetent idiot, crawl back to your cave and don't pretend to be able to support anyone: kinda true, and helpful forewarning about the atmosphere on many Linux forums. I'm trying to get better though, and think Slashdot is a good place to ask that seminal question. I will of course work on it myself before rolling it out. Right now I'm on Ubuntu 9.10, seems OK, Basic software OK, VLC a bit cranky to setup, need to look for IM and Skype, and a backup/dir synch solution that works well with NTFS (RSYNC has issues), and a remote desktop solution that works well (VNC is ugly and slow, the nx-desktop has issues)</p><p>4- PCLinux, PuppyLinux, Vistx, and other minor distros: I myself talked about PuppyLinux in my original 'Ask', but for some reason it was edited out. My concern with those is driver support: I'd like to use the same setup everywhere, and with 'lesser' distros, I'm afraid of drivers problems.</p><p>5- Use KDE 3.5 instead of Gnome: thanks, that sound like a very good idea. KDE 4.4 seems now stable, but may actually bee too much for my needs.</p><p>6- OpenSUSE seems the consensus, with honorable mentions to Ubuntu, MEPIS and Mint. I'll try that out, since my latest attempt at switching Ubuntu to Kubuntu fubared my PC (i'm sure it was fixable, but couldn't find how to, and didn't get helpful help on the forums). SUSE seems natively KDE, so that's better.</p><p>7- XP themes from gnome-look or KDE-look.org: I'll try them out. My concern i similar to the 'minor' distros: long-term evolution, and support. I'd much rather use a distro that works for me out-of the box, with very minimal tweaking nor extensions.</p><p>Again, thanks for all the answers and feedback.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for all the answers , especially the more constructive and helpful ones .
They can be categorized as follows : 1- Do n't do anything : not really satisfying.- &gt; XP breaks regularly , even with antivirus , firewall , router , Firefox , non-admin user... must be PDFs or social engineering.- &gt; XP is nearing EOL , so there will be a transition , either to 7 or Linux2- Not your choice , let them choose : Mmmm... non-techies ?
Someone has to choose for them .
Most of 'my ' users already use OOo , firefox , thunderbird and VLC , so on the apps side the transition should be OK except for games and very specific apps.3- You 're an incompetent idiot , crawl back to your cave and do n't pretend to be able to support anyone : kinda true , and helpful forewarning about the atmosphere on many Linux forums .
I 'm trying to get better though , and think Slashdot is a good place to ask that seminal question .
I will of course work on it myself before rolling it out .
Right now I 'm on Ubuntu 9.10 , seems OK , Basic software OK , VLC a bit cranky to setup , need to look for IM and Skype , and a backup/dir synch solution that works well with NTFS ( RSYNC has issues ) , and a remote desktop solution that works well ( VNC is ugly and slow , the nx-desktop has issues ) 4- PCLinux , PuppyLinux , Vistx , and other minor distros : I myself talked about PuppyLinux in my original 'Ask ' , but for some reason it was edited out .
My concern with those is driver support : I 'd like to use the same setup everywhere , and with 'lesser ' distros , I 'm afraid of drivers problems.5- Use KDE 3.5 instead of Gnome : thanks , that sound like a very good idea .
KDE 4.4 seems now stable , but may actually bee too much for my needs.6- OpenSUSE seems the consensus , with honorable mentions to Ubuntu , MEPIS and Mint .
I 'll try that out , since my latest attempt at switching Ubuntu to Kubuntu fubared my PC ( i 'm sure it was fixable , but could n't find how to , and did n't get helpful help on the forums ) .
SUSE seems natively KDE , so that 's better.7- XP themes from gnome-look or KDE-look.org : I 'll try them out .
My concern i similar to the 'minor ' distros : long-term evolution , and support .
I 'd much rather use a distro that works for me out-of the box , with very minimal tweaking nor extensions.Again , thanks for all the answers and feedback .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for all the answers, especially the more constructive and helpful ones.
They can be categorized as follows:1- Don't do anything: not really satisfying.-&gt; XP breaks regularly, even with antivirus, firewall, router, Firefox, non-admin user... must be PDFs or social engineering.-&gt; XP is nearing EOL, so there will be a transition, either to 7 or Linux2- Not your choice, let them choose: Mmmm... non-techies ?
Someone has to choose for them.
Most of 'my' users already use OOo, firefox, thunderbird and VLC, so on the apps side the transition should be OK except for games and very specific apps.3- You're an incompetent idiot, crawl back to your cave and don't pretend to be able to support anyone: kinda true, and helpful forewarning about the atmosphere on many Linux forums.
I'm trying to get better though, and think Slashdot is a good place to ask that seminal question.
I will of course work on it myself before rolling it out.
Right now I'm on Ubuntu 9.10, seems OK, Basic software OK, VLC a bit cranky to setup, need to look for IM and Skype, and a backup/dir synch solution that works well with NTFS (RSYNC has issues), and a remote desktop solution that works well (VNC is ugly and slow, the nx-desktop has issues)4- PCLinux, PuppyLinux, Vistx, and other minor distros: I myself talked about PuppyLinux in my original 'Ask', but for some reason it was edited out.
My concern with those is driver support: I'd like to use the same setup everywhere, and with 'lesser' distros, I'm afraid of drivers problems.5- Use KDE 3.5 instead of Gnome: thanks, that sound like a very good idea.
KDE 4.4 seems now stable, but may actually bee too much for my needs.6- OpenSUSE seems the consensus, with honorable mentions to Ubuntu, MEPIS and Mint.
I'll try that out, since my latest attempt at switching Ubuntu to Kubuntu fubared my PC (i'm sure it was fixable, but couldn't find how to, and didn't get helpful help on the forums).
SUSE seems natively KDE, so that's better.7- XP themes from gnome-look or KDE-look.org: I'll try them out.
My concern i similar to the 'minor' distros: long-term evolution, and support.
I'd much rather use a distro that works for me out-of the box, with very minimal tweaking nor extensions.Again, thanks for all the answers and feedback.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212382</id>
	<title>Try Linux Mint</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266699360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mint is an all comprehensive version of Ubuntu. It has a start button just like Win, but it's not using KDE.<br>Comes with Flash out of the box.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mint is an all comprehensive version of Ubuntu .
It has a start button just like Win , but it 's not using KDE.Comes with Flash out of the box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mint is an all comprehensive version of Ubuntu.
It has a start button just like Win, but it's not using KDE.Comes with Flash out of the box.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214944</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1266675960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but why bother transitioning them? If Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems.</p></div><p>If he's anything like me, it's because Windows *doesn't* work for them all that well, and he's the "go-to" guy for family and friends (and, most annoyingly, "friends of family"... thanks a load, mom!) when the OS shits itself.  And they all do.</p><p>Very few fixable issues on Linux machines require the 8-10 hours that a bad malware infection on windows can, so I told them all that I won't be doing any support, free or otherwise, for any version of Windows later than XP.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question , but why bother transitioning them ?
If Windows works for them , and they 're happy , you 're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support , questions , and problems.If he 's anything like me , it 's because Windows * does n't * work for them all that well , and he 's the " go-to " guy for family and friends ( and , most annoyingly , " friends of family " ... thanks a load , mom !
) when the OS shits itself .
And they all do.Very few fixable issues on Linux machines require the 8-10 hours that a bad malware infection on windows can , so I told them all that I wo n't be doing any support , free or otherwise , for any version of Windows later than XP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but why bother transitioning them?
If Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems.If he's anything like me, it's because Windows *doesn't* work for them all that well, and he's the "go-to" guy for family and friends (and, most annoyingly, "friends of family"... thanks a load, mom!
) when the OS shits itself.
And they all do.Very few fixable issues on Linux machines require the 8-10 hours that a bad malware infection on windows can, so I told them all that I won't be doing any support, free or otherwise, for any version of Windows later than XP.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213748</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266665460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Title reads "Linux for Non-Techie Windows Users" and you refer to Linus...</p><p>Shame on you!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Title reads " Linux for Non-Techie Windows Users " and you refer to Linus...Shame on you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Title reads "Linux for Non-Techie Windows Users" and you refer to Linus...Shame on you!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31220366</id>
	<title>Mint</title>
	<author>Admiral Yi</author>
	<datestamp>1266780540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try out Linux Mint. It's a more user friendly version of Ubuntu (which is pretty user friendly itself). You can get skins for the GNOME desktop to make it look just like Windows 7 or XP, so your non techie buddies don't have to get used to a new desktop. Check out Gnome-look.org for themes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try out Linux Mint .
It 's a more user friendly version of Ubuntu ( which is pretty user friendly itself ) .
You can get skins for the GNOME desktop to make it look just like Windows 7 or XP , so your non techie buddies do n't have to get used to a new desktop .
Check out Gnome-look.org for themes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try out Linux Mint.
It's a more user friendly version of Ubuntu (which is pretty user friendly itself).
You can get skins for the GNOME desktop to make it look just like Windows 7 or XP, so your non techie buddies don't have to get used to a new desktop.
Check out Gnome-look.org for themes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216942</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266743160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Or a beer analogy: If you've only drunk American beer, be careful when you travel - you'll find out American beer is "like making love in a canoe - f***ing close to water." </i></p><p>I like the cut of your jib mister, but you're wrong with that beer analogy. I've traveled the world far and wide.  The US has some of the best beers in the world.  If you only drink beers that advertise on the Super Bowl and NASCAR, then it's canoe beer.  The amount of microbrews in the US is amazing.  Makes me want to return to the US before your neck of the woods goes under.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or a beer analogy : If you 've only drunk American beer , be careful when you travel - you 'll find out American beer is " like making love in a canoe - f * * * ing close to water .
" I like the cut of your jib mister , but you 're wrong with that beer analogy .
I 've traveled the world far and wide .
The US has some of the best beers in the world .
If you only drink beers that advertise on the Super Bowl and NASCAR , then it 's canoe beer .
The amount of microbrews in the US is amazing .
Makes me want to return to the US before your neck of the woods goes under .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or a beer analogy: If you've only drunk American beer, be careful when you travel - you'll find out American beer is "like making love in a canoe - f***ing close to water.
" I like the cut of your jib mister, but you're wrong with that beer analogy.
I've traveled the world far and wide.
The US has some of the best beers in the world.
If you only drink beers that advertise on the Super Bowl and NASCAR, then it's canoe beer.
The amount of microbrews in the US is amazing.
Makes me want to return to the US before your neck of the woods goes under.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211736</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>geekymachoman</author>
	<datestamp>1266695580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I installed Linux to few of my windows users friends.. in the beginning there where a few questions, but after a month or so, they happily adapted to it. The only problem is if users need some software that isn't available on Linux.. but that's different issue.<br>Since then, I'm happier also. No more virus/malware related calls.</p><p>And yeah, Ubuntu is a way to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed Linux to few of my windows users friends.. in the beginning there where a few questions , but after a month or so , they happily adapted to it .
The only problem is if users need some software that is n't available on Linux.. but that 's different issue.Since then , I 'm happier also .
No more virus/malware related calls.And yeah , Ubuntu is a way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed Linux to few of my windows users friends.. in the beginning there where a few questions, but after a month or so, they happily adapted to it.
The only problem is if users need some software that isn't available on Linux.. but that's different issue.Since then, I'm happier also.
No more virus/malware related calls.And yeah, Ubuntu is a way to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217076</id>
	<title>Re:A pain and a bother?</title>
	<author>MWelchUK</author>
	<datestamp>1266745860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux, other than for ideological reasons?</p></div><p>Um, how about cost?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux , other than for ideological reasons ? Um , how about cost ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux, other than for ideological reasons?Um, how about cost?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213566</id>
	<title>Netbook with linux OS or Ubuntu</title>
	<author>edis</author>
	<datestamp>1266663960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For newcomer I would pass one of my netbooks with default OS, most likely Acer Aspire One variant of  Linpus (actually growing to act so).<br>It has best simplification of interface, I have seen so far. To be warned, on the harder side there are adding your own applications to interface (sadly, Skype was not there) and limited choice of international input methods built in (though main variants are supported out of the box, sure, my specific).</p><p>Also EeePC was not bad, at all, regarding interface of Linux variant - you have even choice of switching between simplified and not.</p><p>If not these, I would recommend Ubuntu today (effectively focused distro), though have preferred SuSE some time before, also to consider.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For newcomer I would pass one of my netbooks with default OS , most likely Acer Aspire One variant of Linpus ( actually growing to act so ) .It has best simplification of interface , I have seen so far .
To be warned , on the harder side there are adding your own applications to interface ( sadly , Skype was not there ) and limited choice of international input methods built in ( though main variants are supported out of the box , sure , my specific ) .Also EeePC was not bad , at all , regarding interface of Linux variant - you have even choice of switching between simplified and not.If not these , I would recommend Ubuntu today ( effectively focused distro ) , though have preferred SuSE some time before , also to consider .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For newcomer I would pass one of my netbooks with default OS, most likely Acer Aspire One variant of  Linpus (actually growing to act so).It has best simplification of interface, I have seen so far.
To be warned, on the harder side there are adding your own applications to interface (sadly, Skype was not there) and limited choice of international input methods built in (though main variants are supported out of the box, sure, my specific).Also EeePC was not bad, at all, regarding interface of Linux variant - you have even choice of switching between simplified and not.If not these, I would recommend Ubuntu today (effectively focused distro), though have preferred SuSE some time before, also to consider.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211800</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>GarryFre</author>
	<datestamp>1266695880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep if they don't care about computers they won't be motivated to put forth any effort towards figuring things out for themselves. Instead they will just call you.

You may be setting yourself up for a lot of hassle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep if they do n't care about computers they wo n't be motivated to put forth any effort towards figuring things out for themselves .
Instead they will just call you .
You may be setting yourself up for a lot of hassle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep if they don't care about computers they won't be motivated to put forth any effort towards figuring things out for themselves.
Instead they will just call you.
You may be setting yourself up for a lot of hassle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214762</id>
	<title>Linux Beginner</title>
	<author>FartKnockerz</author>
	<datestamp>1266674220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you were asking me personally, I would ask you two questions -- and that would determine what I would recommend.</p><p>Before the flames let me explain...</p><p>* If you were looking towards the 'Enterprise' environment, I would recommend CentOS.  There is reasoning for this -- while it's geared towards more Linux central users, it's also the most compatible towards Enterprise applications.</p><p>* If you were looking towards the Enterprise 'Desktop' I would recommend Ubuntu; with the caveat to understand that some packages that people understand as standard (i.e. MySQL) have historically have had problems with the versions that were included in a distribution.  Historically, I could name MySQL and Ubuntu 8.10-&gt;9.</p><p>* If you don't have an infrastructure that already depends on a common distribution -- look at SuSE and Redhat.  The (dis)similarities are somewhat minimal but there.  If you have a Windows (TM) infrastructure already present, give a serious look to SuSE's offerings; good or bad with what they have done to the community.. they are in bed with Microsoft and do have some compelling offerings with integration with the SuSE Enterprise Server/Open Enterprise Server lines.</p><p>* If I was starting from scratch with infrastructure -- look at (and evaluate) FreeIPA/Samba/CUPS.  Think about your client desktop however -- Windows?  SuSE? Ubuntu?  It makes a difference.  If you have disparaging Linux distributions you have to reconcile the naming/user conventions in your LDAP directory.</p><p>Pick one distribution for the server and one for the desktop -- hopefully they are the same derivative.  For example, Debian for the server and Ubuntu for the desktop -- or CentOS/RHEL for the server and Fedora for the desktop.  This way you maintain the user/group LDAP portability between the distributions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you were asking me personally , I would ask you two questions -- and that would determine what I would recommend.Before the flames let me explain... * If you were looking towards the 'Enterprise ' environment , I would recommend CentOS .
There is reasoning for this -- while it 's geared towards more Linux central users , it 's also the most compatible towards Enterprise applications .
* If you were looking towards the Enterprise 'Desktop ' I would recommend Ubuntu ; with the caveat to understand that some packages that people understand as standard ( i.e .
MySQL ) have historically have had problems with the versions that were included in a distribution .
Historically , I could name MySQL and Ubuntu 8.10- &gt; 9 .
* If you do n't have an infrastructure that already depends on a common distribution -- look at SuSE and Redhat .
The ( dis ) similarities are somewhat minimal but there .
If you have a Windows ( TM ) infrastructure already present , give a serious look to SuSE 's offerings ; good or bad with what they have done to the community.. they are in bed with Microsoft and do have some compelling offerings with integration with the SuSE Enterprise Server/Open Enterprise Server lines .
* If I was starting from scratch with infrastructure -- look at ( and evaluate ) FreeIPA/Samba/CUPS .
Think about your client desktop however -- Windows ?
SuSE ? Ubuntu ?
It makes a difference .
If you have disparaging Linux distributions you have to reconcile the naming/user conventions in your LDAP directory.Pick one distribution for the server and one for the desktop -- hopefully they are the same derivative .
For example , Debian for the server and Ubuntu for the desktop -- or CentOS/RHEL for the server and Fedora for the desktop .
This way you maintain the user/group LDAP portability between the distributions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you were asking me personally, I would ask you two questions -- and that would determine what I would recommend.Before the flames let me explain...* If you were looking towards the 'Enterprise' environment, I would recommend CentOS.
There is reasoning for this -- while it's geared towards more Linux central users, it's also the most compatible towards Enterprise applications.
* If you were looking towards the Enterprise 'Desktop' I would recommend Ubuntu; with the caveat to understand that some packages that people understand as standard (i.e.
MySQL) have historically have had problems with the versions that were included in a distribution.
Historically, I could name MySQL and Ubuntu 8.10-&gt;9.
* If you don't have an infrastructure that already depends on a common distribution -- look at SuSE and Redhat.
The (dis)similarities are somewhat minimal but there.
If you have a Windows (TM) infrastructure already present, give a serious look to SuSE's offerings; good or bad with what they have done to the community.. they are in bed with Microsoft and do have some compelling offerings with integration with the SuSE Enterprise Server/Open Enterprise Server lines.
* If I was starting from scratch with infrastructure -- look at (and evaluate) FreeIPA/Samba/CUPS.
Think about your client desktop however -- Windows?
SuSE? Ubuntu?
It makes a difference.
If you have disparaging Linux distributions you have to reconcile the naming/user conventions in your LDAP directory.Pick one distribution for the server and one for the desktop -- hopefully they are the same derivative.
For example, Debian for the server and Ubuntu for the desktop -- or CentOS/RHEL for the server and Fedora for the desktop.
This way you maintain the user/group LDAP portability between the distributions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213632</id>
	<title>mint linux</title>
	<author>RodyMcAmp</author>
	<datestamp>1266664500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have used tons of different distros and the distro i put on m y wifes and kids computer is mintlinux it works good and i get very little complaints. Its based on Ubuntu but they seem to get a bit more right and it doesn't look like they pooped on your screen on boot up.

rody</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have used tons of different distros and the distro i put on m y wifes and kids computer is mintlinux it works good and i get very little complaints .
Its based on Ubuntu but they seem to get a bit more right and it does n't look like they pooped on your screen on boot up .
rody</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have used tons of different distros and the distro i put on m y wifes and kids computer is mintlinux it works good and i get very little complaints.
Its based on Ubuntu but they seem to get a bit more right and it doesn't look like they pooped on your screen on boot up.
rody</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213036</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>TheQuantumShift</author>
	<datestamp>1266660240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another excellent opportunity to wean someone from ITMS to emusic or the like. Otherwise <a href="http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&amp;iId=16848" title="winehq.org">appdb</a> [winehq.org] shows 8.2 as the latest version that works along with the store via wine. Unknown if the store requires a certain version or not though. Also a good opportunity to explain how proprietary lock-in can come back and bite you.
<br> <br>
But I definitely agree with your overall statement, if they rely on win only apps, don't push it. I haven't even attempted to transition my parents off vista as they might actually die if they can't use the msn browser/email suite. Once MS kills it for good, I may setup a dual boot and have them try it out, but until then I'll maintain the pc as is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another excellent opportunity to wean someone from ITMS to emusic or the like .
Otherwise appdb [ winehq.org ] shows 8.2 as the latest version that works along with the store via wine .
Unknown if the store requires a certain version or not though .
Also a good opportunity to explain how proprietary lock-in can come back and bite you .
But I definitely agree with your overall statement , if they rely on win only apps , do n't push it .
I have n't even attempted to transition my parents off vista as they might actually die if they ca n't use the msn browser/email suite .
Once MS kills it for good , I may setup a dual boot and have them try it out , but until then I 'll maintain the pc as is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another excellent opportunity to wean someone from ITMS to emusic or the like.
Otherwise appdb [winehq.org] shows 8.2 as the latest version that works along with the store via wine.
Unknown if the store requires a certain version or not though.
Also a good opportunity to explain how proprietary lock-in can come back and bite you.
But I definitely agree with your overall statement, if they rely on win only apps, don't push it.
I haven't even attempted to transition my parents off vista as they might actually die if they can't use the msn browser/email suite.
Once MS kills it for good, I may setup a dual boot and have them try it out, but until then I'll maintain the pc as is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31228300</id>
	<title>Give them a better education instead?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266847500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why should anything be dumbed down? Just improve the education and things will flow from that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should anything be dumbed down ?
Just improve the education and things will flow from that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why should anything be dumbed down?
Just improve the education and things will flow from that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211664</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree, in general you shouldn't change anything on a computer if it works unless there is a good reason for doing so.  In this case, installing linux on a friends computer because you support it doesn't qualify.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , in general you should n't change anything on a computer if it works unless there is a good reason for doing so .
In this case , installing linux on a friends computer because you support it does n't qualify .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, in general you shouldn't change anything on a computer if it works unless there is a good reason for doing so.
In this case, installing linux on a friends computer because you support it doesn't qualify.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211916</id>
	<title>OpenSuse</title>
	<author>xenoterracide</author>
	<datestamp>1266696540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>My personal opinion used to be OpenSuse w/ kde. I think it's much closer to windows than something running gnome. If I were you I'd test it first... but I thought it was fairly quick to get running. but that was kde3 the road to kde4 was rough and I haven't tried the latest, but I think kde4 is now quite good, I use arch because I prefer bleeding edge but I know that's not for everyone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My personal opinion used to be OpenSuse w/ kde .
I think it 's much closer to windows than something running gnome .
If I were you I 'd test it first... but I thought it was fairly quick to get running .
but that was kde3 the road to kde4 was rough and I have n't tried the latest , but I think kde4 is now quite good , I use arch because I prefer bleeding edge but I know that 's not for everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My personal opinion used to be OpenSuse w/ kde.
I think it's much closer to windows than something running gnome.
If I were you I'd test it first... but I thought it was fairly quick to get running.
but that was kde3 the road to kde4 was rough and I haven't tried the latest, but I think kde4 is now quite good, I use arch because I prefer bleeding edge but I know that's not for everyone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211728</id>
	<title>Excuse me for asking, but:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they don't "understand or care" about computers as you say, then why are you even going to all this trouble? Sounds to me like they don't need anything new or cutting-edge, they're likely just using it for web browsing and email like 99\% of everyone else out there, so long as what they have works and they understand how to use it then why should you even bother? Seriously, why are you appointing yourself this onerous-sounding task in the first place? If they're pressuring you because they want something new, maybe you'd all be better served by convincing them that there isn't going to be any benefit gained by anyone for the effort. If your supporting it is an issue (which, again, I ask you: why are you putting yourself through all this?) then image the damned things once they're stable, and if they manage to blow them up somehow, get infected with virii and trojans, etc, you just pave over the thing with the saved image and be on your way. Or better yet, tell them to stop leeching off of a family member who likely gets paid ALL WEEK LONG to do this kind of work and either go BUY a computer with a newer OS on it, or be bothered to LEARN how things work so they can at least do most of the work themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do n't " understand or care " about computers as you say , then why are you even going to all this trouble ?
Sounds to me like they do n't need anything new or cutting-edge , they 're likely just using it for web browsing and email like 99 \ % of everyone else out there , so long as what they have works and they understand how to use it then why should you even bother ?
Seriously , why are you appointing yourself this onerous-sounding task in the first place ?
If they 're pressuring you because they want something new , maybe you 'd all be better served by convincing them that there is n't going to be any benefit gained by anyone for the effort .
If your supporting it is an issue ( which , again , I ask you : why are you putting yourself through all this ?
) then image the damned things once they 're stable , and if they manage to blow them up somehow , get infected with virii and trojans , etc , you just pave over the thing with the saved image and be on your way .
Or better yet , tell them to stop leeching off of a family member who likely gets paid ALL WEEK LONG to do this kind of work and either go BUY a computer with a newer OS on it , or be bothered to LEARN how things work so they can at least do most of the work themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they don't "understand or care" about computers as you say, then why are you even going to all this trouble?
Sounds to me like they don't need anything new or cutting-edge, they're likely just using it for web browsing and email like 99\% of everyone else out there, so long as what they have works and they understand how to use it then why should you even bother?
Seriously, why are you appointing yourself this onerous-sounding task in the first place?
If they're pressuring you because they want something new, maybe you'd all be better served by convincing them that there isn't going to be any benefit gained by anyone for the effort.
If your supporting it is an issue (which, again, I ask you: why are you putting yourself through all this?
) then image the damned things once they're stable, and if they manage to blow them up somehow, get infected with virii and trojans, etc, you just pave over the thing with the saved image and be on your way.
Or better yet, tell them to stop leeching off of a family member who likely gets paid ALL WEEK LONG to do this kind of work and either go BUY a computer with a newer OS on it, or be bothered to LEARN how things work so they can at least do most of the work themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212708</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC? "</p><p>I haven't been able to get a version of Linux to work properly on my computer properly since Sarge.  First of all the x-window-system stopped working with my computer on the versions after sarge.   Now, the current version have the xserver working properly with my video cards, but now the sound system and the dvd drivers don't work.  The sound puts out a constant loud screeching sound if I try to raise the volume and the dvd driver doesn't recognize when one puts a disk in it.</p><p>None of those problems existed with Sarge and everything seems to have gotten worse since then.   So to answer your question.  Plenty of things are hard to get working on linux right now that weren't problems formerly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Not to be too mean , but what 's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC ?
" I have n't been able to get a version of Linux to work properly on my computer properly since Sarge .
First of all the x-window-system stopped working with my computer on the versions after sarge .
Now , the current version have the xserver working properly with my video cards , but now the sound system and the dvd drivers do n't work .
The sound puts out a constant loud screeching sound if I try to raise the volume and the dvd driver does n't recognize when one puts a disk in it.None of those problems existed with Sarge and everything seems to have gotten worse since then .
So to answer your question .
Plenty of things are hard to get working on linux right now that were n't problems formerly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?
"I haven't been able to get a version of Linux to work properly on my computer properly since Sarge.
First of all the x-window-system stopped working with my computer on the versions after sarge.
Now, the current version have the xserver working properly with my video cards, but now the sound system and the dvd drivers don't work.
The sound puts out a constant loud screeching sound if I try to raise the volume and the dvd driver doesn't recognize when one puts a disk in it.None of those problems existed with Sarge and everything seems to have gotten worse since then.
So to answer your question.
Plenty of things are hard to get working on linux right now that weren't problems formerly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212420</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>bmo</author>
	<datestamp>1266699540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or Mint, if you can't be arsed to install restricted-extras and the medibuntu repository.</p><p>Flagging restricted-extras and adding medibuntu (for decss, among other things) is a one minute task.</p><p>There is a lot of SuSE promotion in here, but if you compare package management, debian based systems are a lot easier for the newbie.  I used to be a fan of SuSE until I switched to Ubuntu after the "peace in our time" Microsoft-Novell non-agression treaty, and I really haven't looked back.</p><p>For 32 bit systems I am also rather fond of Pardus.  It's KDE done right.</p><p>--<br>BMO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or Mint , if you ca n't be arsed to install restricted-extras and the medibuntu repository.Flagging restricted-extras and adding medibuntu ( for decss , among other things ) is a one minute task.There is a lot of SuSE promotion in here , but if you compare package management , debian based systems are a lot easier for the newbie .
I used to be a fan of SuSE until I switched to Ubuntu after the " peace in our time " Microsoft-Novell non-agression treaty , and I really have n't looked back.For 32 bit systems I am also rather fond of Pardus .
It 's KDE done right.--BMO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or Mint, if you can't be arsed to install restricted-extras and the medibuntu repository.Flagging restricted-extras and adding medibuntu (for decss, among other things) is a one minute task.There is a lot of SuSE promotion in here, but if you compare package management, debian based systems are a lot easier for the newbie.
I used to be a fan of SuSE until I switched to Ubuntu after the "peace in our time" Microsoft-Novell non-agression treaty, and I really haven't looked back.For 32 bit systems I am also rather fond of Pardus.
It's KDE done right.--BMO</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211786</id>
	<title>Ubuntu is fine...</title>
	<author>lcrocker</author>
	<datestamp>1266695820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 70-year-old mom is on stock Ubuntu with no problems.  She's happy that her old laptop runs faster now, and she can do everything she needs pretty simply.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 70-year-old mom is on stock Ubuntu with no problems .
She 's happy that her old laptop runs faster now , and she can do everything she needs pretty simply .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 70-year-old mom is on stock Ubuntu with no problems.
She's happy that her old laptop runs faster now, and she can do everything she needs pretty simply.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211608</id>
	<title>Linux terrorist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Leave your poor friends and family alone. Unless they specifically ask for it or there is some tangible benefit to you changing their OS from Microsoft to Linux, you are just being pushy.</p><p>There's no money savings because they've already paid for the license and that's about 99\% of Linux's value proposition. I can't think of many compelling reasons to go out there and harass people you know with a new OS.</p><p>I know it would not work for me because my friends and family rely on the Windows platform for video games and easy access to any software they want. Also, I do not want the trouble that comes with helping to continue to support my friends and family after I ruin their whole PC experience with an operating system that will cause them all kinds of headaches.</p><p>Just leave your family alone, let them use their PC's in peace. You don't need to terrorize them with changing OS's and ruining their whole daily routine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Leave your poor friends and family alone .
Unless they specifically ask for it or there is some tangible benefit to you changing their OS from Microsoft to Linux , you are just being pushy.There 's no money savings because they 've already paid for the license and that 's about 99 \ % of Linux 's value proposition .
I ca n't think of many compelling reasons to go out there and harass people you know with a new OS.I know it would not work for me because my friends and family rely on the Windows platform for video games and easy access to any software they want .
Also , I do not want the trouble that comes with helping to continue to support my friends and family after I ruin their whole PC experience with an operating system that will cause them all kinds of headaches.Just leave your family alone , let them use their PC 's in peace .
You do n't need to terrorize them with changing OS 's and ruining their whole daily routine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Leave your poor friends and family alone.
Unless they specifically ask for it or there is some tangible benefit to you changing their OS from Microsoft to Linux, you are just being pushy.There's no money savings because they've already paid for the license and that's about 99\% of Linux's value proposition.
I can't think of many compelling reasons to go out there and harass people you know with a new OS.I know it would not work for me because my friends and family rely on the Windows platform for video games and easy access to any software they want.
Also, I do not want the trouble that comes with helping to continue to support my friends and family after I ruin their whole PC experience with an operating system that will cause them all kinds of headaches.Just leave your family alone, let them use their PC's in peace.
You don't need to terrorize them with changing OS's and ruining their whole daily routine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211492</id>
	<title>Mepis</title>
	<author>1shooter</author>
	<datestamp>1266694440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Built specially for the transitioning Windows user.  Built on Debian 5 stable core and KDE desktop and has all the basics in the live CD and an active support community.  Most XP users I've exposed to it had no trouble getting getting things done on their own.</p><p><a href="http://www.mepis.org/" title="mepis.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.mepis.org/</a> [mepis.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Built specially for the transitioning Windows user .
Built on Debian 5 stable core and KDE desktop and has all the basics in the live CD and an active support community .
Most XP users I 've exposed to it had no trouble getting getting things done on their own.http : //www.mepis.org/ [ mepis.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Built specially for the transitioning Windows user.
Built on Debian 5 stable core and KDE desktop and has all the basics in the live CD and an active support community.
Most XP users I've exposed to it had no trouble getting getting things done on their own.http://www.mepis.org/ [mepis.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31228826</id>
	<title>XP Gnome</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266851280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>XP Gnome - its a theme that makes ubuntu look and feel like XP. Probably the best way to transition them since they won't have to change their habits much.</p><p>http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>XP Gnome - its a theme that makes ubuntu look and feel like XP .
Probably the best way to transition them since they wo n't have to change their habits much.http : //ubuntu.online02.com/node/14</tokentext>
<sentencetext>XP Gnome - its a theme that makes ubuntu look and feel like XP.
Probably the best way to transition them since they won't have to change their habits much.http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216658</id>
	<title>I recommend a sedative</title>
	<author>jjohn\_h</author>
	<datestamp>1266694920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt; Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distro</p><p>Perhaps? Does it have a cashew nut in the upper right corner?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distroPerhaps ?
Does it have a cashew nut in the upper right corner ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt; Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distroPerhaps?
Does it have a cashew nut in the upper right corner?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216486</id>
	<title>Not Again</title>
	<author>bkissi01</author>
	<datestamp>1266692340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Come on, throw Ubuntu on and put Mac4Lin on it and tell them its a Mac. Ubuntu is definitely easy enough to use. Its what I use and I've switched several family members over to Ubuntu because they were worried about keylogger spyware and internet banking. Songbird is a wonderful Firefox based music player that is very close to iTunes (minus the store) that syncs with many portable devices including iPods. If you already converted them to Firefox and/or OpenOffice on Windows then the experience isn't much different on Ubuntu and makes the transition much easier.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on , throw Ubuntu on and put Mac4Lin on it and tell them its a Mac .
Ubuntu is definitely easy enough to use .
Its what I use and I 've switched several family members over to Ubuntu because they were worried about keylogger spyware and internet banking .
Songbird is a wonderful Firefox based music player that is very close to iTunes ( minus the store ) that syncs with many portable devices including iPods .
If you already converted them to Firefox and/or OpenOffice on Windows then the experience is n't much different on Ubuntu and makes the transition much easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on, throw Ubuntu on and put Mac4Lin on it and tell them its a Mac.
Ubuntu is definitely easy enough to use.
Its what I use and I've switched several family members over to Ubuntu because they were worried about keylogger spyware and internet banking.
Songbird is a wonderful Firefox based music player that is very close to iTunes (minus the store) that syncs with many portable devices including iPods.
If you already converted them to Firefox and/or OpenOffice on Windows then the experience isn't much different on Ubuntu and makes the transition much easier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212724</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>- The only real security problems in "XP" have been with users who do not know how to protect themselves! User installation of malware and viruses is not an OS problem- it's a people problem.</p><p>- On vista, two years ago I would have agreed with you that vista was crap. Let's face it, Microsoft releasesd an OS before they had finished with it, and there were a lot of performance problems to fix. But Today now, after MS's learning experience- how is it crap?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Performance-wise- It is faster, more polished, and as far as I can tell, stable.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Security wise it's reinforced against the Blaster/Sasser RPC worms still out there, and- it even tries to fix the "people problem" I mentioned with UAC.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Don't like it? No sweat! just disable it.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Feature-wise- you think XP had half the stuff that Vista introduced, like the aero theme, real-time search, simplified networking with diagnostics, and a<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; built-in Screenshot utility? Think again.</p><p>- from a PR standpoint... do you really think  the frustration of learning the quirks and differences of a completely new operating system will NOT eventually translate into the user's mind that it is "Crap"? After all, we live in a culture where we will blame an electrical device first, ourselves second.<br>- and what the hell happened to "Windows 7"? Is it too "vista-like" to even start to be considered?</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I would thoroughly encourage people to try different OSes from time to time. use what they are comfortable with, or what they feel they can be comfortable with. But at the same time, The problems mentioned here are not technical in nature- they are people problems. these problems will not lessen any with time- if we keep going the route we are- they will only worsen.</p><p>
&nbsp; Rich Cook once said: "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot- proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." I think that pretty much fits my argument nicely. The only way to fix this is education, and re-education- not babying them and frustrating them by giving them more simplified software, or telling them to upgrade simply because "oh, this doesn't get viruses", or "this is more secure, after all it's not windows".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>- The only real security problems in " XP " have been with users who do not know how to protect themselves !
User installation of malware and viruses is not an OS problem- it 's a people problem.- On vista , two years ago I would have agreed with you that vista was crap .
Let 's face it , Microsoft releasesd an OS before they had finished with it , and there were a lot of performance problems to fix .
But Today now , after MS 's learning experience- how is it crap ?
                                            Performance-wise- It is faster , more polished , and as far as I can tell , stable .
                                            Security wise it 's reinforced against the Blaster/Sasser RPC worms still out there , and- it even tries to fix the " people problem " I mentioned with UAC .
                                            Do n't like it ?
No sweat !
just disable it .
                                            Feature-wise- you think XP had half the stuff that Vista introduced , like the aero theme , real-time search , simplified networking with diagnostics , and a                                             built-in Screenshot utility ?
Think again.- from a PR standpoint... do you really think the frustration of learning the quirks and differences of a completely new operating system will NOT eventually translate into the user 's mind that it is " Crap " ?
After all , we live in a culture where we will blame an electrical device first , ourselves second.- and what the hell happened to " Windows 7 " ?
Is it too " vista-like " to even start to be considered ? Do n't get me wrong , I would thoroughly encourage people to try different OSes from time to time .
use what they are comfortable with , or what they feel they can be comfortable with .
But at the same time , The problems mentioned here are not technical in nature- they are people problems .
these problems will not lessen any with time- if we keep going the route we are- they will only worsen .
  Rich Cook once said : " Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot- proof programs , and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots .
So far , the Universe is winning .
" I think that pretty much fits my argument nicely .
The only way to fix this is education , and re-education- not babying them and frustrating them by giving them more simplified software , or telling them to upgrade simply because " oh , this does n't get viruses " , or " this is more secure , after all it 's not windows " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- The only real security problems in "XP" have been with users who do not know how to protect themselves!
User installation of malware and viruses is not an OS problem- it's a people problem.- On vista, two years ago I would have agreed with you that vista was crap.
Let's face it, Microsoft releasesd an OS before they had finished with it, and there were a lot of performance problems to fix.
But Today now, after MS's learning experience- how is it crap?
                                            Performance-wise- It is faster, more polished, and as far as I can tell, stable.
                                            Security wise it's reinforced against the Blaster/Sasser RPC worms still out there, and- it even tries to fix the "people problem" I mentioned with UAC.
                                            Don't like it?
No sweat!
just disable it.
                                            Feature-wise- you think XP had half the stuff that Vista introduced, like the aero theme, real-time search, simplified networking with diagnostics, and a
                                            built-in Screenshot utility?
Think again.- from a PR standpoint... do you really think  the frustration of learning the quirks and differences of a completely new operating system will NOT eventually translate into the user's mind that it is "Crap"?
After all, we live in a culture where we will blame an electrical device first, ourselves second.- and what the hell happened to "Windows 7"?
Is it too "vista-like" to even start to be considered?Don't get me wrong, I would thoroughly encourage people to try different OSes from time to time.
use what they are comfortable with, or what they feel they can be comfortable with.
But at the same time, The problems mentioned here are not technical in nature- they are people problems.
these problems will not lessen any with time- if we keep going the route we are- they will only worsen.
  Rich Cook once said: "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot- proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots.
So far, the Universe is winning.
" I think that pretty much fits my argument nicely.
The only way to fix this is education, and re-education- not babying them and frustrating them by giving them more simplified software, or telling them to upgrade simply because "oh, this doesn't get viruses", or "this is more secure, after all it's not windows".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211614</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>theshowmecanuck</author>
	<datestamp>1266695040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. SUSE is the way to go. Some points I like: first distro I tried where wifi worked without a big hassle. For those who want to use motherboard raid, it recognizes it and you don't have to endure people telling you it is fakeraid and all the other bullshit. That is, you can set up your drives as YOU want from the installer. No separate 'alternate' installer where raid installation doesn't work anyway, even if using kernel based software raid. The wifi and raid bullshit turned me off of Ubuntu. They keep trying to add bells and whistles and keep ignoring fundamental issues like this. I liked Ubuntu in general (Kubuntu actually). But these issues turned me off of it. I avoided Suse before because of Novels dealings with MS. However someone recently convinced me to try Suse again, and it was good. It is not perfect, but for the average user it is a very good Linux distro. Instructions to install proprietary media drivers are about as difficult to find as with Ubuntu. i.e. a quick Google for Suse 11.2 mp3 drivers or similar and you find a link to the opensuse group that has the driver links. If you pay for the distro (which everyone should now and then... so they stay in business), I believe the drivers are included.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
SUSE is the way to go .
Some points I like : first distro I tried where wifi worked without a big hassle .
For those who want to use motherboard raid , it recognizes it and you do n't have to endure people telling you it is fakeraid and all the other bullshit .
That is , you can set up your drives as YOU want from the installer .
No separate 'alternate ' installer where raid installation does n't work anyway , even if using kernel based software raid .
The wifi and raid bullshit turned me off of Ubuntu .
They keep trying to add bells and whistles and keep ignoring fundamental issues like this .
I liked Ubuntu in general ( Kubuntu actually ) .
But these issues turned me off of it .
I avoided Suse before because of Novels dealings with MS. However someone recently convinced me to try Suse again , and it was good .
It is not perfect , but for the average user it is a very good Linux distro .
Instructions to install proprietary media drivers are about as difficult to find as with Ubuntu .
i.e. a quick Google for Suse 11.2 mp3 drivers or similar and you find a link to the opensuse group that has the driver links .
If you pay for the distro ( which everyone should now and then... so they stay in business ) , I believe the drivers are included .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
SUSE is the way to go.
Some points I like: first distro I tried where wifi worked without a big hassle.
For those who want to use motherboard raid, it recognizes it and you don't have to endure people telling you it is fakeraid and all the other bullshit.
That is, you can set up your drives as YOU want from the installer.
No separate 'alternate' installer where raid installation doesn't work anyway, even if using kernel based software raid.
The wifi and raid bullshit turned me off of Ubuntu.
They keep trying to add bells and whistles and keep ignoring fundamental issues like this.
I liked Ubuntu in general (Kubuntu actually).
But these issues turned me off of it.
I avoided Suse before because of Novels dealings with MS. However someone recently convinced me to try Suse again, and it was good.
It is not perfect, but for the average user it is a very good Linux distro.
Instructions to install proprietary media drivers are about as difficult to find as with Ubuntu.
i.e. a quick Google for Suse 11.2 mp3 drivers or similar and you find a link to the opensuse group that has the driver links.
If you pay for the distro (which everyone should now and then... so they stay in business), I believe the drivers are included.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211598</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm considering something similar because frankly, XP3 catches weird things all the time (and while cleaning windows viruses has a homey retro feel, I don't want to do it all the time) and their hardware isn't really up to running vista or W7. But.. Then they're very used to windows and it'll while the product is free (and good) I'm not signing up to educate/support people for all eternity. Not trying to be obnoxious, but we can't prop up XP forever and not everyone, especially people who consider their computers more of a tool then a beloved friend, can keep their hardware super new.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm considering something similar because frankly , XP3 catches weird things all the time ( and while cleaning windows viruses has a homey retro feel , I do n't want to do it all the time ) and their hardware is n't really up to running vista or W7 .
But.. Then they 're very used to windows and it 'll while the product is free ( and good ) I 'm not signing up to educate/support people for all eternity .
Not trying to be obnoxious , but we ca n't prop up XP forever and not everyone , especially people who consider their computers more of a tool then a beloved friend , can keep their hardware super new .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm considering something similar because frankly, XP3 catches weird things all the time (and while cleaning windows viruses has a homey retro feel, I don't want to do it all the time) and their hardware isn't really up to running vista or W7.
But.. Then they're very used to windows and it'll while the product is free (and good) I'm not signing up to educate/support people for all eternity.
Not trying to be obnoxious, but we can't prop up XP forever and not everyone, especially people who consider their computers more of a tool then a beloved friend, can keep their hardware super new.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212572</id>
	<title>To cut down on support requests</title>
	<author>Vertana</author>
	<datestamp>1266657420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would wait for either Ubuntu 10.04 to come out or wait until the Linux Mint that is built off of 10.04 to come out. I say this because as it will be the LTS, they won't feel like they need to upgrade (you can tell them that they get free support for 3 years). Linux Mint, although I have not used it myself, has gained a lot of traction as an easy-to-use distro because of all the preinstalled software and proprietary drivers and such. You can teach them how to use the Ubuntu Software Center, Evolution, maybe even install Boxee for them as a media center and call it a day. The reasons I say to wait on Ubuntu 10.04 is because the GDM in 9.10 doesn't have the "click on user" to login UI, you must type in username and password (I've received complaints from Windows users about it) and there is no "easy" way to fix that and stability. Generally speaking LTS releases tend to be a bit more stable (at least in theory). If you don't wanna go with Ubuntu, OpenSuse has a very good KDE implementation (for the "Windows feel") and a nice control panel, that would be a better option if the look and feel of Windows is slightly more important than ease-of-use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would wait for either Ubuntu 10.04 to come out or wait until the Linux Mint that is built off of 10.04 to come out .
I say this because as it will be the LTS , they wo n't feel like they need to upgrade ( you can tell them that they get free support for 3 years ) .
Linux Mint , although I have not used it myself , has gained a lot of traction as an easy-to-use distro because of all the preinstalled software and proprietary drivers and such .
You can teach them how to use the Ubuntu Software Center , Evolution , maybe even install Boxee for them as a media center and call it a day .
The reasons I say to wait on Ubuntu 10.04 is because the GDM in 9.10 does n't have the " click on user " to login UI , you must type in username and password ( I 've received complaints from Windows users about it ) and there is no " easy " way to fix that and stability .
Generally speaking LTS releases tend to be a bit more stable ( at least in theory ) .
If you do n't wan na go with Ubuntu , OpenSuse has a very good KDE implementation ( for the " Windows feel " ) and a nice control panel , that would be a better option if the look and feel of Windows is slightly more important than ease-of-use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would wait for either Ubuntu 10.04 to come out or wait until the Linux Mint that is built off of 10.04 to come out.
I say this because as it will be the LTS, they won't feel like they need to upgrade (you can tell them that they get free support for 3 years).
Linux Mint, although I have not used it myself, has gained a lot of traction as an easy-to-use distro because of all the preinstalled software and proprietary drivers and such.
You can teach them how to use the Ubuntu Software Center, Evolution, maybe even install Boxee for them as a media center and call it a day.
The reasons I say to wait on Ubuntu 10.04 is because the GDM in 9.10 doesn't have the "click on user" to login UI, you must type in username and password (I've received complaints from Windows users about it) and there is no "easy" way to fix that and stability.
Generally speaking LTS releases tend to be a bit more stable (at least in theory).
If you don't wanna go with Ubuntu, OpenSuse has a very good KDE implementation (for the "Windows feel") and a nice control panel, that would be a better option if the look and feel of Windows is slightly more important than ease-of-use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213172</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1266661260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>We all know Vista is crap, so if they're using that, switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade.</i> </p><p>There is often a difference between what the geek "knows" and what he "believes."</p><p>Case in point - the crap Win 7 stories that have been making their way to the front page of Slashdot.</p><p><i> <b>they care about what they can do </b>rather than who makes their OS, and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista.</i> </p><p>Pretty much everything of interest in Linux [FOSS] is ported to Windows or begins as a native Windows app.</p><p>That is not true the other way around - and it matters.</p><p>The gold standard for the Windows user is the OEM system bundle of hardware and software. The system works as advertised or it is returned for service or replacement under warranty.</p><p>The platform has strength and visibility as a consumer product. It has the attractive mass market price - and better specs than the bottom feeders.</p><p>The Win 7 PC in store or at WalMart.com comes in essentially two flavors:</p><p> Win SE for the Atom netbook. 64 Bit Windows Home Premium for everything else. 150 or so systems in all, with a bare handful priced over $1000. The laptop will be dual core with 4 GB RAM. The desktop quad core with 6 to 9 GB of RAM.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We all know Vista is crap , so if they 're using that , switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade .
There is often a difference between what the geek " knows " and what he " believes .
" Case in point - the crap Win 7 stories that have been making their way to the front page of Slashdot .
they care about what they can do rather than who makes their OS , and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista .
Pretty much everything of interest in Linux [ FOSS ] is ported to Windows or begins as a native Windows app.That is not true the other way around - and it matters.The gold standard for the Windows user is the OEM system bundle of hardware and software .
The system works as advertised or it is returned for service or replacement under warranty.The platform has strength and visibility as a consumer product .
It has the attractive mass market price - and better specs than the bottom feeders.The Win 7 PC in store or at WalMart.com comes in essentially two flavors : Win SE for the Atom netbook .
64 Bit Windows Home Premium for everything else .
150 or so systems in all , with a bare handful priced over $ 1000 .
The laptop will be dual core with 4 GB RAM .
The desktop quad core with 6 to 9 GB of RAM .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all know Vista is crap, so if they're using that, switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade.
There is often a difference between what the geek "knows" and what he "believes.
"Case in point - the crap Win 7 stories that have been making their way to the front page of Slashdot.
they care about what they can do rather than who makes their OS, and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista.
Pretty much everything of interest in Linux [FOSS] is ported to Windows or begins as a native Windows app.That is not true the other way around - and it matters.The gold standard for the Windows user is the OEM system bundle of hardware and software.
The system works as advertised or it is returned for service or replacement under warranty.The platform has strength and visibility as a consumer product.
It has the attractive mass market price - and better specs than the bottom feeders.The Win 7 PC in store or at WalMart.com comes in essentially two flavors: Win SE for the Atom netbook.
64 Bit Windows Home Premium for everything else.
150 or so systems in all, with a bare handful priced over $1000.
The laptop will be dual core with 4 GB RAM.
The desktop quad core with 6 to 9 GB of RAM.
   </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211560</id>
	<title>PCLinuxOS</title>
	<author>torgosan</author>
	<datestamp>1266694800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quick nod to PCLinuxOS here. Out of the box simple, straight-forward, Windows-ish enough that even those relatives who have made the transition from Win2k/XP had minimal issues/adjustment time to get comfortable - seamless and painless, as the OP requires. Has a great built-in assortment of apps [covers all the bases outlined above] and just plain works and very well at that, even on somewhat older hardware. Gets my vote.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quick nod to PCLinuxOS here .
Out of the box simple , straight-forward , Windows-ish enough that even those relatives who have made the transition from Win2k/XP had minimal issues/adjustment time to get comfortable - seamless and painless , as the OP requires .
Has a great built-in assortment of apps [ covers all the bases outlined above ] and just plain works and very well at that , even on somewhat older hardware .
Gets my vote .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quick nod to PCLinuxOS here.
Out of the box simple, straight-forward, Windows-ish enough that even those relatives who have made the transition from Win2k/XP had minimal issues/adjustment time to get comfortable - seamless and painless, as the OP requires.
Has a great built-in assortment of apps [covers all the bases outlined above] and just plain works and very well at that, even on somewhat older hardware.
Gets my vote.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215764</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266684180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me. My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...</p></div><p>So, you think if you can make linux look like xp, it will have an advantage over win7? OK. Understandable.<br>But clearly, looking different than xp is not a disadvantage compared to win7. So don't obsess on that one thing.</p><p>If that is the only place that linux has an advantage, don't use linux. And if the XP interface is such a huge advantage, why switch away at all?</p><p>Most linux enthusiasts see many more advantages to linux. Some even think that linux has the advantage on desktop functionality with the likes of KDE.</p><p>So you can</p><p>1. Stick with XP<br>2. Move to linux or win7 and try to make them look like XP<br>3. Move to linux or win7 and don't disguise them.</p><p>It sounds like you have ruled out choice 1. Frankly, I think choice 2 is the worst option. Stick with XP in a little time bubble, or move into the future.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As for making it look like Windows , my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me .
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen 's resolution...So , you think if you can make linux look like xp , it will have an advantage over win7 ?
OK. Understandable.But clearly , looking different than xp is not a disadvantage compared to win7 .
So do n't obsess on that one thing.If that is the only place that linux has an advantage , do n't use linux .
And if the XP interface is such a huge advantage , why switch away at all ? Most linux enthusiasts see many more advantages to linux .
Some even think that linux has the advantage on desktop functionality with the likes of KDE.So you can1 .
Stick with XP2 .
Move to linux or win7 and try to make them look like XP3 .
Move to linux or win7 and do n't disguise them.It sounds like you have ruled out choice 1 .
Frankly , I think choice 2 is the worst option .
Stick with XP in a little time bubble , or move into the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me.
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...So, you think if you can make linux look like xp, it will have an advantage over win7?
OK. Understandable.But clearly, looking different than xp is not a disadvantage compared to win7.
So don't obsess on that one thing.If that is the only place that linux has an advantage, don't use linux.
And if the XP interface is such a huge advantage, why switch away at all?Most linux enthusiasts see many more advantages to linux.
Some even think that linux has the advantage on desktop functionality with the likes of KDE.So you can1.
Stick with XP2.
Move to linux or win7 and try to make them look like XP3.
Move to linux or win7 and don't disguise them.It sounds like you have ruled out choice 1.
Frankly, I think choice 2 is the worst option.
Stick with XP in a little time bubble, or move into the future.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211506</id>
	<title>Stick with Windows or Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The very fact that you are asking this question shows that you do not know a huge amount about Linux and the different distributions. If you did then the choices would be obvious.</p><p>Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions. They will be looking at you to fix everything, and since you obviously don't know that much, you aren't going to give them the best answers. Then they will think "this Linux crap sucks" because you can't help them.</p><p>Instead of foisting Linux on these people, they should stick with Windows or Mac. When things go wrong on those platforms there are plenty of places to go for help (including the vendor) rather than you being the sole source of support.</p><p>When you've had more experience with Linux maybe then you can try foisting an OS on other people. By then though you won't be here asking this question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The very fact that you are asking this question shows that you do not know a huge amount about Linux and the different distributions .
If you did then the choices would be obvious.Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions .
They will be looking at you to fix everything , and since you obviously do n't know that much , you are n't going to give them the best answers .
Then they will think " this Linux crap sucks " because you ca n't help them.Instead of foisting Linux on these people , they should stick with Windows or Mac .
When things go wrong on those platforms there are plenty of places to go for help ( including the vendor ) rather than you being the sole source of support.When you 've had more experience with Linux maybe then you can try foisting an OS on other people .
By then though you wo n't be here asking this question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The very fact that you are asking this question shows that you do not know a huge amount about Linux and the different distributions.
If you did then the choices would be obvious.Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions.
They will be looking at you to fix everything, and since you obviously don't know that much, you aren't going to give them the best answers.
Then they will think "this Linux crap sucks" because you can't help them.Instead of foisting Linux on these people, they should stick with Windows or Mac.
When things go wrong on those platforms there are plenty of places to go for help (including the vendor) rather than you being the sole source of support.When you've had more experience with Linux maybe then you can try foisting an OS on other people.
By then though you won't be here asking this question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211556</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>SixArmedJesus</author>
	<datestamp>1266694800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm personally a big fan of Linux Mint.  It builds off of Ubuntu, but it comes already setup with a number of proprietary items that other distros don't want to include, such as flash , mp3 and NVidia support.  It has the familiar Windows-like setup you mentioned and it's easy to maintain with the mint-update tool, which lets the user know when there are updates to install.  (I know other distros have similar utilities, but Mint's never seemed to break anything on an update.)  It also has a number of other mint-* tools that make maintenance very easy and gives it a nice polish even over Ubuntu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm personally a big fan of Linux Mint .
It builds off of Ubuntu , but it comes already setup with a number of proprietary items that other distros do n't want to include , such as flash , mp3 and NVidia support .
It has the familiar Windows-like setup you mentioned and it 's easy to maintain with the mint-update tool , which lets the user know when there are updates to install .
( I know other distros have similar utilities , but Mint 's never seemed to break anything on an update .
) It also has a number of other mint- * tools that make maintenance very easy and gives it a nice polish even over Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm personally a big fan of Linux Mint.
It builds off of Ubuntu, but it comes already setup with a number of proprietary items that other distros don't want to include, such as flash , mp3 and NVidia support.
It has the familiar Windows-like setup you mentioned and it's easy to maintain with the mint-update tool, which lets the user know when there are updates to install.
(I know other distros have similar utilities, but Mint's never seemed to break anything on an update.
)  It also has a number of other mint-* tools that make maintenance very easy and gives it a nice polish even over Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211924</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>fatbuttlarry</author>
	<datestamp>1266696540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, if all they use is internet, IM, email, then the Windows 7 transition may no be as hard as you think.<br> <br>

You can make most <a href="http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14" title="online02.com" rel="nofollow">Linux distributions look and feel like Windows XP</a> [online02.com], but the differences between XP and 7 will still be there with XP and skinned-Linux.<br> <br>

For example, the differences in the <b>Control Panel</b>, Volume Controls, New Dialogs will all be there.<br> <br>

Give one advanced relative Ubuntu and see how they like it.  If your use-case proves successful, upgrade the rest one-by one.     Just because you are the "technical" resource in the family doesn't mean the other relatives don't talk.  Let them decide what they like.  <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=iphone+ubuntu" title="lmgtfy.com" rel="nofollow">Ubuntu spreads word for itself</a> [lmgtfy.com] with many non-"Power Users".  If you really want to use this opportunity, just plant the seed.<br> <br>

-Tres</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , if all they use is internet , IM , email , then the Windows 7 transition may no be as hard as you think .
You can make most Linux distributions look and feel like Windows XP [ online02.com ] , but the differences between XP and 7 will still be there with XP and skinned-Linux .
For example , the differences in the Control Panel , Volume Controls , New Dialogs will all be there .
Give one advanced relative Ubuntu and see how they like it .
If your use-case proves successful , upgrade the rest one-by one .
Just because you are the " technical " resource in the family does n't mean the other relatives do n't talk .
Let them decide what they like .
Ubuntu spreads word for itself [ lmgtfy.com ] with many non- " Power Users " .
If you really want to use this opportunity , just plant the seed .
-Tres</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, if all they use is internet, IM, email, then the Windows 7 transition may no be as hard as you think.
You can make most Linux distributions look and feel like Windows XP [online02.com], but the differences between XP and 7 will still be there with XP and skinned-Linux.
For example, the differences in the Control Panel, Volume Controls, New Dialogs will all be there.
Give one advanced relative Ubuntu and see how they like it.
If your use-case proves successful, upgrade the rest one-by one.
Just because you are the "technical" resource in the family doesn't mean the other relatives don't talk.
Let them decide what they like.
Ubuntu spreads word for itself [lmgtfy.com] with many non-"Power Users".
If you really want to use this opportunity, just plant the seed.
-Tres</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212116</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It hasn't been "Fedora core" for a few years. It's just plain "Fedora" now.</p><p>If these are people that just want things to work, Fedora isn't really the best distro to use. To get common codecs you need to do something like enable rpmfusion. To play DVDs you also need to enable Livna. Using some of the software at either of these repositories isn't legal in the United States due to application of software patents and the DCMA.</p><p>Updates are very common. You can probably handle this easy enough with automated updates, but there are potential problems here. You might just want to enable security updates if bandwidth is going to be an issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It has n't been " Fedora core " for a few years .
It 's just plain " Fedora " now.If these are people that just want things to work , Fedora is n't really the best distro to use .
To get common codecs you need to do something like enable rpmfusion .
To play DVDs you also need to enable Livna .
Using some of the software at either of these repositories is n't legal in the United States due to application of software patents and the DCMA.Updates are very common .
You can probably handle this easy enough with automated updates , but there are potential problems here .
You might just want to enable security updates if bandwidth is going to be an issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It hasn't been "Fedora core" for a few years.
It's just plain "Fedora" now.If these are people that just want things to work, Fedora isn't really the best distro to use.
To get common codecs you need to do something like enable rpmfusion.
To play DVDs you also need to enable Livna.
Using some of the software at either of these repositories isn't legal in the United States due to application of software patents and the DCMA.Updates are very common.
You can probably handle this easy enough with automated updates, but there are potential problems here.
You might just want to enable security updates if bandwidth is going to be an issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212678</id>
	<title>Re:Another often overlooked candidate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PCLinuxOS Is NOT built on top of debian...been a user for several years and an active member of the community. It was originally built atop Mandrake but that was years ago.</p><p>It uses synaptic which is a front end to aptget but that is the only similarity.</p><p>Next time make sure you actually know what your speaking about..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PCLinuxOS Is NOT built on top of debian...been a user for several years and an active member of the community .
It was originally built atop Mandrake but that was years ago.It uses synaptic which is a front end to aptget but that is the only similarity.Next time make sure you actually know what your speaking about. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PCLinuxOS Is NOT built on top of debian...been a user for several years and an active member of the community.
It was originally built atop Mandrake but that was years ago.It uses synaptic which is a front end to aptget but that is the only similarity.Next time make sure you actually know what your speaking about..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212770</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to disagree vehemently with this. By asking them whether they are ready to use software they have never even heard of, you are putting them in an impossible situation. You are the technical expert. It is YOUR job to determine whether they are ready.</p><p>When I switched my father from Windows XP to Ubuntu, I just told him that there would be some learning involved, but I didn't go into the minutiae of how OpenOffice would be different from Word. I never even mentioned "Linux", because it was completely irrelevant to his level of understanding. All he cares about is that the word processor looks different, and the email program looks different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to disagree vehemently with this .
By asking them whether they are ready to use software they have never even heard of , you are putting them in an impossible situation .
You are the technical expert .
It is YOUR job to determine whether they are ready.When I switched my father from Windows XP to Ubuntu , I just told him that there would be some learning involved , but I did n't go into the minutiae of how OpenOffice would be different from Word .
I never even mentioned " Linux " , because it was completely irrelevant to his level of understanding .
All he cares about is that the word processor looks different , and the email program looks different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to disagree vehemently with this.
By asking them whether they are ready to use software they have never even heard of, you are putting them in an impossible situation.
You are the technical expert.
It is YOUR job to determine whether they are ready.When I switched my father from Windows XP to Ubuntu, I just told him that there would be some learning involved, but I didn't go into the minutiae of how OpenOffice would be different from Word.
I never even mentioned "Linux", because it was completely irrelevant to his level of understanding.
All he cares about is that the word processor looks different, and the email program looks different.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219648</id>
	<title>It's all about how it LOOKS</title>
	<author>SarikX</author>
	<datestamp>1266777000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>More than anything, I believe this is a "look" problem. Non-techie users that are used to WindowsXP would never even KNOW they were using a Linux back end if it "looked" like XP. I remember reading on Slashdot about a Chinese company shipping out Ubuntu with a very good XP theme.
That's all this is about folks. What it "Looks" like.
I've dealt with XP users who move a different machine, also using XP, that might be set up a bit different. They inevitably freak out.
My advice (which might be illegal, and I would never do myself and all that other stuff): find the XP lookalike theme for Ubuntu, and they WILL never know the difference.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More than anything , I believe this is a " look " problem .
Non-techie users that are used to WindowsXP would never even KNOW they were using a Linux back end if it " looked " like XP .
I remember reading on Slashdot about a Chinese company shipping out Ubuntu with a very good XP theme .
That 's all this is about folks .
What it " Looks " like .
I 've dealt with XP users who move a different machine , also using XP , that might be set up a bit different .
They inevitably freak out .
My advice ( which might be illegal , and I would never do myself and all that other stuff ) : find the XP lookalike theme for Ubuntu , and they WILL never know the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More than anything, I believe this is a "look" problem.
Non-techie users that are used to WindowsXP would never even KNOW they were using a Linux back end if it "looked" like XP.
I remember reading on Slashdot about a Chinese company shipping out Ubuntu with a very good XP theme.
That's all this is about folks.
What it "Looks" like.
I've dealt with XP users who move a different machine, also using XP, that might be set up a bit different.
They inevitably freak out.
My advice (which might be illegal, and I would never do myself and all that other stuff): find the XP lookalike theme for Ubuntu, and they WILL never know the difference.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212834</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>sponga</author>
	<datestamp>1266658920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uhhh last I check in 2007 Apple had sold its 100millionth Ipod</p><p>100 million customers is not something you can work around, eventually they might end up buying an Ipod/Iphone and try to connect it to Ubuntu. Uh oh....</p><p>Hopefully Google does something right with the Linux Desktop and takes charge, so hold off on trying to switch Windows users because you are digging your grave.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uhhh last I check in 2007 Apple had sold its 100millionth Ipod100 million customers is not something you can work around , eventually they might end up buying an Ipod/Iphone and try to connect it to Ubuntu .
Uh oh....Hopefully Google does something right with the Linux Desktop and takes charge , so hold off on trying to switch Windows users because you are digging your grave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uhhh last I check in 2007 Apple had sold its 100millionth Ipod100 million customers is not something you can work around, eventually they might end up buying an Ipod/Iphone and try to connect it to Ubuntu.
Uh oh....Hopefully Google does something right with the Linux Desktop and takes charge, so hold off on trying to switch Windows users because you are digging your grave.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217178</id>
	<title>Having good results with Ubuntu and Mandriva.</title>
	<author>idiotein30</author>
	<datestamp>1266748380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hi, I have "transitioned" my own family, in-law, and a few friends to GNU-Linux, including complete Noob. I had the best results with Ubuntu LTS, it's really an important point to stick with LTS, and Mandriva (be careful to stick with official repository, no "testing" or "backport", it would be nonsense for Noob).<br>As for Kubuntu, it used to be borderline crappy, but since 9.10 it's getting in good shape and it's now up to Ubuntu standards, I have good feelings for the coming LTS "Lucid Lynx" if the transition can wait until then.</p><p>Don't try to make it "windows-like", you will lose your time in stupid customisation, it will break on upgrades, and the user will always be looking back with the feeling that "it ain't the same". Linux is NOT Windows, that's why it's so much better, just go with it and don't try to sell it as a Windows placebo.</p><p>Other good choices are OpenSuse (I avoid it for "ethical" reasons, not technical ones), Debian Stable (but will take longer to configure to your needs). Lesser known distro are often to avoid for new users (less assistance, on-line resources, fewer packages...), one exception I used is Mepis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi , I have " transitioned " my own family , in-law , and a few friends to GNU-Linux , including complete Noob .
I had the best results with Ubuntu LTS , it 's really an important point to stick with LTS , and Mandriva ( be careful to stick with official repository , no " testing " or " backport " , it would be nonsense for Noob ) .As for Kubuntu , it used to be borderline crappy , but since 9.10 it 's getting in good shape and it 's now up to Ubuntu standards , I have good feelings for the coming LTS " Lucid Lynx " if the transition can wait until then.Do n't try to make it " windows-like " , you will lose your time in stupid customisation , it will break on upgrades , and the user will always be looking back with the feeling that " it ai n't the same " .
Linux is NOT Windows , that 's why it 's so much better , just go with it and do n't try to sell it as a Windows placebo.Other good choices are OpenSuse ( I avoid it for " ethical " reasons , not technical ones ) , Debian Stable ( but will take longer to configure to your needs ) .
Lesser known distro are often to avoid for new users ( less assistance , on-line resources , fewer packages... ) , one exception I used is Mepis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi, I have "transitioned" my own family, in-law, and a few friends to GNU-Linux, including complete Noob.
I had the best results with Ubuntu LTS, it's really an important point to stick with LTS, and Mandriva (be careful to stick with official repository, no "testing" or "backport", it would be nonsense for Noob).As for Kubuntu, it used to be borderline crappy, but since 9.10 it's getting in good shape and it's now up to Ubuntu standards, I have good feelings for the coming LTS "Lucid Lynx" if the transition can wait until then.Don't try to make it "windows-like", you will lose your time in stupid customisation, it will break on upgrades, and the user will always be looking back with the feeling that "it ain't the same".
Linux is NOT Windows, that's why it's so much better, just go with it and don't try to sell it as a Windows placebo.Other good choices are OpenSuse (I avoid it for "ethical" reasons, not technical ones), Debian Stable (but will take longer to configure to your needs).
Lesser known distro are often to avoid for new users (less assistance, on-line resources, fewer packages...), one exception I used is Mepis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211710</id>
	<title>GnoMenu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its a clone of the windows menu bar, take a look at the gnome-look.org website (in the menu on the left).<br>Its exactly where you are looking after.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a clone of the windows menu bar , take a look at the gnome-look.org website ( in the menu on the left ) .Its exactly where you are looking after .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a clone of the windows menu bar, take a look at the gnome-look.org website (in the menu on the left).Its exactly where you are looking after.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31220088</id>
	<title>83 year old on Ubuntu</title>
	<author>rodneylee</author>
	<datestamp>1266779280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>HI, I recently switched a 83 year old ex-mother superior from, gag-me win vista to Ubuntu 9.10 with out a hitch, she immediately fell in love with the interface, the philosophy behind, menu location everything, only issue we had was getting her ipod to work, took me a day, only cause I know so little about ipod and apples hold on the hardware, anyway gtkpod works like a champ now and I have one very happy Lady using Ubuntu</htmltext>
<tokenext>HI , I recently switched a 83 year old ex-mother superior from , gag-me win vista to Ubuntu 9.10 with out a hitch , she immediately fell in love with the interface , the philosophy behind , menu location everything , only issue we had was getting her ipod to work , took me a day , only cause I know so little about ipod and apples hold on the hardware , anyway gtkpod works like a champ now and I have one very happy Lady using Ubuntu</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HI, I recently switched a 83 year old ex-mother superior from, gag-me win vista to Ubuntu 9.10 with out a hitch, she immediately fell in love with the interface, the philosophy behind, menu location everything, only issue we had was getting her ipod to work, took me a day, only cause I know so little about ipod and apples hold on the hardware, anyway gtkpod works like a champ now and I have one very happy Lady using Ubuntu</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212528</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Sloppy</author>
	<datestamp>1266657120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>but why bother transitioning them?</p></div></blockquote><p>Because Windows XP is no longer maintained, lags in security and other bugfixes, is technologically outdated, and just gets staler and staler.</p><p>A user can be happy with Mac OS 7.5.5 but they're not going to stay happy for very long if they use the internet or want to install new apps.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but why bother transitioning them ? Because Windows XP is no longer maintained , lags in security and other bugfixes , is technologically outdated , and just gets staler and staler.A user can be happy with Mac OS 7.5.5 but they 're not going to stay happy for very long if they use the internet or want to install new apps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but why bother transitioning them?Because Windows XP is no longer maintained, lags in security and other bugfixes, is technologically outdated, and just gets staler and staler.A user can be happy with Mac OS 7.5.5 but they're not going to stay happy for very long if they use the internet or want to install new apps.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212454</id>
	<title>Re:Linux terrorist</title>
	<author>arcade</author>
	<datestamp>1266656520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing though..</p><p>If these friends and family want your help every so often to "fix" stuff that doesn't work with their computer - then they should change to whatever YOU feel most comfortable with.</p><p>I've told my family that I Do Not Do Windows.  At all.  If they've got windows-questions, they'll have to go somewhere else.  (If you think I'm being mean, I'm not.  I haven't used windows on any of my computers since 1999).</p><p>If friends/family/others want my help with computers, they'll have to use Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing though..If these friends and family want your help every so often to " fix " stuff that does n't work with their computer - then they should change to whatever YOU feel most comfortable with.I 've told my family that I Do Not Do Windows .
At all .
If they 've got windows-questions , they 'll have to go somewhere else .
( If you think I 'm being mean , I 'm not .
I have n't used windows on any of my computers since 1999 ) .If friends/family/others want my help with computers , they 'll have to use Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing though..If these friends and family want your help every so often to "fix" stuff that doesn't work with their computer - then they should change to whatever YOU feel most comfortable with.I've told my family that I Do Not Do Windows.
At all.
If they've got windows-questions, they'll have to go somewhere else.
(If you think I'm being mean, I'm not.
I haven't used windows on any of my computers since 1999).If friends/family/others want my help with computers, they'll have to use Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214990</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1266676200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pretty much all the popular distros are relatively easy to use these days. If "look and feel" is simply a matter of where the task bar is place and where the clock is, then rest assured that can be set with pretty much any.<br>If they really only need a handful of apps you could just leave them with a default Installation of anything and be done.</p><p>But there again, anything more than that may take getting used to. Things like mounting drives or even just using the package manager can be trouble, but Ubuntu certainly seems to have got it to the point that it *just works*. You can't go wrong with recommending Ubuntu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty much all the popular distros are relatively easy to use these days .
If " look and feel " is simply a matter of where the task bar is place and where the clock is , then rest assured that can be set with pretty much any.If they really only need a handful of apps you could just leave them with a default Installation of anything and be done.But there again , anything more than that may take getting used to .
Things like mounting drives or even just using the package manager can be trouble , but Ubuntu certainly seems to have got it to the point that it * just works * .
You ca n't go wrong with recommending Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty much all the popular distros are relatively easy to use these days.
If "look and feel" is simply a matter of where the task bar is place and where the clock is, then rest assured that can be set with pretty much any.If they really only need a handful of apps you could just leave them with a default Installation of anything and be done.But there again, anything more than that may take getting used to.
Things like mounting drives or even just using the package manager can be trouble, but Ubuntu certainly seems to have got it to the point that it *just works*.
You can't go wrong with recommending Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212028</id>
	<title>SimplyMepis 8.5 (currently in Beta 5)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd recommend a KDE-based distro, not a GNOME-based distro that slaps a KDE on top (which is how I feel about Kubuntu, and others as well).</p><p>SimplyMepis 8.5 has the wonderful new KDE4-series desktop and its based on the incredibly-stable Debian base, which I recomend higher than the Ubuntu base, hands down.  https://www.mepis.org/  The current release is 8.0, which is good but has the KDE 3.5 desktop, which is at end-of-life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd recommend a KDE-based distro , not a GNOME-based distro that slaps a KDE on top ( which is how I feel about Kubuntu , and others as well ) .SimplyMepis 8.5 has the wonderful new KDE4-series desktop and its based on the incredibly-stable Debian base , which I recomend higher than the Ubuntu base , hands down .
https : //www.mepis.org/ The current release is 8.0 , which is good but has the KDE 3.5 desktop , which is at end-of-life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd recommend a KDE-based distro, not a GNOME-based distro that slaps a KDE on top (which is how I feel about Kubuntu, and others as well).SimplyMepis 8.5 has the wonderful new KDE4-series desktop and its based on the incredibly-stable Debian base, which I recomend higher than the Ubuntu base, hands down.
https://www.mepis.org/  The current release is 8.0, which is good but has the KDE 3.5 desktop, which is at end-of-life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211878</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266696360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>wtf, flamebait????? moderatiopn is somtime relly weird here (i must be new here)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>wtf , flamebait ? ? ? ? ?
moderatiopn is somtime relly weird here ( i must be new here )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wtf, flamebait?????
moderatiopn is somtime relly weird here (i must be new here)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212346</id>
	<title>Re:Linux terrorist</title>
	<author>sammyF70</author>
	<datestamp>1266699060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>From my own experience, past the first hour of explaining where to find stuff, you'll get a LOT less support to do by using a good linux distro than by staying with Windows, as long as they don't want to play the newest games out there.Linux is way less of a hassle for the standard user, who is going to spend 99\% of the time in MSN, Skype or on facebook, and who watches vids on youtube, than windows (and yes, I include even Windows7 in that). Additionally, If someone like that asks you for a certain software ("I need Photoshop, cause my cousin's neighbour's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures"), you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent, thus saving yourself the effort of being physically present and your "non-computer-type" person either a lot of money/the danger of catching a virus (you'll still end up having to explain how to use the software, but that would have happened with windows software nevertheless).</htmltext>
<tokenext>From my own experience , past the first hour of explaining where to find stuff , you 'll get a LOT less support to do by using a good linux distro than by staying with Windows , as long as they do n't want to play the newest games out there.Linux is way less of a hassle for the standard user , who is going to spend 99 \ % of the time in MSN , Skype or on facebook , and who watches vids on youtube , than windows ( and yes , I include even Windows7 in that ) .
Additionally , If someone like that asks you for a certain software ( " I need Photoshop , cause my cousin 's neighbour 's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures " ) , you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent , thus saving yourself the effort of being physically present and your " non-computer-type " person either a lot of money/the danger of catching a virus ( you 'll still end up having to explain how to use the software , but that would have happened with windows software nevertheless ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From my own experience, past the first hour of explaining where to find stuff, you'll get a LOT less support to do by using a good linux distro than by staying with Windows, as long as they don't want to play the newest games out there.Linux is way less of a hassle for the standard user, who is going to spend 99\% of the time in MSN, Skype or on facebook, and who watches vids on youtube, than windows (and yes, I include even Windows7 in that).
Additionally, If someone like that asks you for a certain software ("I need Photoshop, cause my cousin's neighbour's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures"), you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent, thus saving yourself the effort of being physically present and your "non-computer-type" person either a lot of money/the danger of catching a virus (you'll still end up having to explain how to use the software, but that would have happened with windows software nevertheless).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211702</id>
	<title>Starting my wife on Linux this weekend</title>
	<author>tiberiumx</author>
	<datestamp>1266695460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forced with an OS reinstall after my wife's computer died (Windows XP doesn't like the motherboard being swapped out from under it), I started her with Ubuntu this weekend.</p><p>With XP she was already using Firefox and OO.org and she's been using Gimp for awhile, so that wasn't a hurdle.  She migrated to Gmail/Google Calendar a long time ago, so there was no need to learn how to use an Outlook replacement.  It didn't seem to take her much time at all to pick up the file manager, and the "Places" menu allows her to jump around quickly without necessarily knowing how a Unix filesystem is structured.  She seemed appreciative of the games included in Gnome (Mahjonng, Minesweeper, Solitare) , Hearts was easy to install, and we had one small Windows game that worked just fine in Wine.  Using SD cards from her camera is actually easier due to the fact that it shows up under Places with a recognisable name and has an easier to access unmount function.  She was using an older version of AIM for IM, but seems comfortable with Pidgin.</p><p>At some point I'm going to have to tackle a VirtualBox install so we can use iTunes to sync her iPod touch (Fuck you very much for locking the music database, Apple).  I already have an XP image available on my system that I should be able to easily copy over.</p><p>Overall, it seems to be going pretty well.  Except for a problem caused by the maliciousness of one device manufacturer (fuck you again, Apple), all hardware worked painlessly (I was surprised to find that even her printer was automatically installed).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forced with an OS reinstall after my wife 's computer died ( Windows XP does n't like the motherboard being swapped out from under it ) , I started her with Ubuntu this weekend.With XP she was already using Firefox and OO.org and she 's been using Gimp for awhile , so that was n't a hurdle .
She migrated to Gmail/Google Calendar a long time ago , so there was no need to learn how to use an Outlook replacement .
It did n't seem to take her much time at all to pick up the file manager , and the " Places " menu allows her to jump around quickly without necessarily knowing how a Unix filesystem is structured .
She seemed appreciative of the games included in Gnome ( Mahjonng , Minesweeper , Solitare ) , Hearts was easy to install , and we had one small Windows game that worked just fine in Wine .
Using SD cards from her camera is actually easier due to the fact that it shows up under Places with a recognisable name and has an easier to access unmount function .
She was using an older version of AIM for IM , but seems comfortable with Pidgin.At some point I 'm going to have to tackle a VirtualBox install so we can use iTunes to sync her iPod touch ( Fuck you very much for locking the music database , Apple ) .
I already have an XP image available on my system that I should be able to easily copy over.Overall , it seems to be going pretty well .
Except for a problem caused by the maliciousness of one device manufacturer ( fuck you again , Apple ) , all hardware worked painlessly ( I was surprised to find that even her printer was automatically installed ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forced with an OS reinstall after my wife's computer died (Windows XP doesn't like the motherboard being swapped out from under it), I started her with Ubuntu this weekend.With XP she was already using Firefox and OO.org and she's been using Gimp for awhile, so that wasn't a hurdle.
She migrated to Gmail/Google Calendar a long time ago, so there was no need to learn how to use an Outlook replacement.
It didn't seem to take her much time at all to pick up the file manager, and the "Places" menu allows her to jump around quickly without necessarily knowing how a Unix filesystem is structured.
She seemed appreciative of the games included in Gnome (Mahjonng, Minesweeper, Solitare) , Hearts was easy to install, and we had one small Windows game that worked just fine in Wine.
Using SD cards from her camera is actually easier due to the fact that it shows up under Places with a recognisable name and has an easier to access unmount function.
She was using an older version of AIM for IM, but seems comfortable with Pidgin.At some point I'm going to have to tackle a VirtualBox install so we can use iTunes to sync her iPod touch (Fuck you very much for locking the music database, Apple).
I already have an XP image available on my system that I should be able to easily copy over.Overall, it seems to be going pretty well.
Except for a problem caused by the maliciousness of one device manufacturer (fuck you again, Apple), all hardware worked painlessly (I was surprised to find that even her printer was automatically installed).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</id>
	<title>Linus</title>
	<author>MrShaggy</author>
	<datestamp>1266694380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The man himself uses ubuntu.</p><p>I also  enjoyed Fedora Core.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The man himself uses ubuntu.I also enjoyed Fedora Core .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The man himself uses ubuntu.I also  enjoyed Fedora Core.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211672</id>
	<title>Any distro</title>
	<author>Erikderzweite</author>
	<datestamp>1266695280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any distro will do, provided you are familiar with it and it works with the hardware. My now 60-years-old parents were using gentoo once, completely oblivious of the complexity of that system. You may even tell them that this is a new version of Windows (my favorite one, I show and explain newbies all the killer features of a linux distro (packet management, middle-click-paste etc. and tell them in a week or so, that this was linux all the time).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any distro will do , provided you are familiar with it and it works with the hardware .
My now 60-years-old parents were using gentoo once , completely oblivious of the complexity of that system .
You may even tell them that this is a new version of Windows ( my favorite one , I show and explain newbies all the killer features of a linux distro ( packet management , middle-click-paste etc .
and tell them in a week or so , that this was linux all the time ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any distro will do, provided you are familiar with it and it works with the hardware.
My now 60-years-old parents were using gentoo once, completely oblivious of the complexity of that system.
You may even tell them that this is a new version of Windows (my favorite one, I show and explain newbies all the killer features of a linux distro (packet management, middle-click-paste etc.
and tell them in a week or so, that this was linux all the time).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31223490</id>
	<title>KDE</title>
	<author>Exter-C</author>
	<datestamp>1266756420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hi,</p><p>Many users who have come from Windows find KDE not to hard to learn. I have moved my mum and relatives over to KDE based systems and they are very happy with it. So far they are only on 3.5 but they find it nice and easy to use. I need to push one of them to 4.x at some point to see how well they handle it. Since moving them to Linux/KDE (on Kubuntu) they have called me for support only once.. rather than every few weeks with windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi,Many users who have come from Windows find KDE not to hard to learn .
I have moved my mum and relatives over to KDE based systems and they are very happy with it .
So far they are only on 3.5 but they find it nice and easy to use .
I need to push one of them to 4.x at some point to see how well they handle it .
Since moving them to Linux/KDE ( on Kubuntu ) they have called me for support only once.. rather than every few weeks with windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi,Many users who have come from Windows find KDE not to hard to learn.
I have moved my mum and relatives over to KDE based systems and they are very happy with it.
So far they are only on 3.5 but they find it nice and easy to use.
I need to push one of them to 4.x at some point to see how well they handle it.
Since moving them to Linux/KDE (on Kubuntu) they have called me for support only once.. rather than every few weeks with windows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211860</id>
	<title>OpenSUSE ships a good KDE</title>
	<author>MtHuurne</author>
	<datestamp>1266696240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you want to give them KDE, OpenSUSE is a good choice, since it has nice KDE integration of OpenOffice and Firefox. And OpenSUSE in general has good quality packaging and regular releases.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to give them KDE , OpenSUSE is a good choice , since it has nice KDE integration of OpenOffice and Firefox .
And OpenSUSE in general has good quality packaging and regular releases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to give them KDE, OpenSUSE is a good choice, since it has nice KDE integration of OpenOffice and Firefox.
And OpenSUSE in general has good quality packaging and regular releases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212446</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266656460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll tell you why. So my Mom doesn't have to buy a new computer.</p><p>Background:</p><p>My 70 y.o. mother runs Ubuntu. </p><p>Her machine dual boots into Windows 98. Yes 98.</p><p>She only uses that to make video calls to Europe using MSN messenger.</p><p>As soon as I can configure Skype or Ekiga to connect with her relatives, I can dump Windows 98.</p><p>If I had followed the upgrade path, I would have had to buy her a new machine, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, etc etc.</p><p>As Linux is constantly improving, and Windows has a constant forced paid upgrade cycle, I am getting rid of Windows through attrition.</p><p>Microsoft makes it easy for me, as they expire more features; e.g. Hotmail on Windows 98, I moved her over to Evolution on Linux and Gmail.</p><p>Attrition of deprecated paid software, is driving the transition, as well as Linux's constant improvements.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll tell you why .
So my Mom does n't have to buy a new computer.Background : My 70 y.o .
mother runs Ubuntu .
Her machine dual boots into Windows 98 .
Yes 98.She only uses that to make video calls to Europe using MSN messenger.As soon as I can configure Skype or Ekiga to connect with her relatives , I can dump Windows 98.If I had followed the upgrade path , I would have had to buy her a new machine , Windows XP , Windows Vista , Windows 7 , etc etc.As Linux is constantly improving , and Windows has a constant forced paid upgrade cycle , I am getting rid of Windows through attrition.Microsoft makes it easy for me , as they expire more features ; e.g .
Hotmail on Windows 98 , I moved her over to Evolution on Linux and Gmail.Attrition of deprecated paid software , is driving the transition , as well as Linux 's constant improvements .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll tell you why.
So my Mom doesn't have to buy a new computer.Background:My 70 y.o.
mother runs Ubuntu.
Her machine dual boots into Windows 98.
Yes 98.She only uses that to make video calls to Europe using MSN messenger.As soon as I can configure Skype or Ekiga to connect with her relatives, I can dump Windows 98.If I had followed the upgrade path, I would have had to buy her a new machine, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, etc etc.As Linux is constantly improving, and Windows has a constant forced paid upgrade cycle, I am getting rid of Windows through attrition.Microsoft makes it easy for me, as they expire more features; e.g.
Hotmail on Windows 98, I moved her over to Evolution on Linux and Gmail.Attrition of deprecated paid software, is driving the transition, as well as Linux's constant improvements.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213642</id>
	<title>A few good options...</title>
	<author>ddsmooth</author>
	<datestamp>1266664560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that Ubuntu and/or Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu) are both great, strong, popular distributions.

Also, Xandros is an interesting choice for Windows converts in that it has a GUI interface with designed with those kinds of users in mind.

PClinuxos is also a simple distrobution which could work well.

There is also a piece of software called XPDE - <a href="http://www.xpde.com/" title="xpde.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.xpde.com/</a> [xpde.com] - which stands for XP desktop environment. XPDE is a linux desxtop environment which mimics the look and feel of windows XP.

So perhaps if you installed Ubuntu or Linux Mint plus xpde, the xpde could act like training wheels for windows users in the world of linux.

Good luck, and enjoy this FOSS consecration!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that Ubuntu and/or Linux Mint ( which is based on Ubuntu ) are both great , strong , popular distributions .
Also , Xandros is an interesting choice for Windows converts in that it has a GUI interface with designed with those kinds of users in mind .
PClinuxos is also a simple distrobution which could work well .
There is also a piece of software called XPDE - http : //www.xpde.com/ [ xpde.com ] - which stands for XP desktop environment .
XPDE is a linux desxtop environment which mimics the look and feel of windows XP .
So perhaps if you installed Ubuntu or Linux Mint plus xpde , the xpde could act like training wheels for windows users in the world of linux .
Good luck , and enjoy this FOSS consecration !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that Ubuntu and/or Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu) are both great, strong, popular distributions.
Also, Xandros is an interesting choice for Windows converts in that it has a GUI interface with designed with those kinds of users in mind.
PClinuxos is also a simple distrobution which could work well.
There is also a piece of software called XPDE - http://www.xpde.com/ [xpde.com] - which stands for XP desktop environment.
XPDE is a linux desxtop environment which mimics the look and feel of windows XP.
So perhaps if you installed Ubuntu or Linux Mint plus xpde, the xpde could act like training wheels for windows users in the world of linux.
Good luck, and enjoy this FOSS consecration!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212414</id>
	<title>Keep it easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266699480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The easiest options for non-techie users are probably Mandriva and Mint. Mandriva has a great control centre, large community and has a very Windows-user-friendly look. Mint is a lot younger, but has a pretty easy set up. Both have all the codecs and whatnot running out of the box.</p><p>I'd recommend staying away from fast paced distros and more techie ones like Ubuntu or Fedora. Neither is really friendly to novice users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The easiest options for non-techie users are probably Mandriva and Mint .
Mandriva has a great control centre , large community and has a very Windows-user-friendly look .
Mint is a lot younger , but has a pretty easy set up .
Both have all the codecs and whatnot running out of the box.I 'd recommend staying away from fast paced distros and more techie ones like Ubuntu or Fedora .
Neither is really friendly to novice users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The easiest options for non-techie users are probably Mandriva and Mint.
Mandriva has a great control centre, large community and has a very Windows-user-friendly look.
Mint is a lot younger, but has a pretty easy set up.
Both have all the codecs and whatnot running out of the box.I'd recommend staying away from fast paced distros and more techie ones like Ubuntu or Fedora.
Neither is really friendly to novice users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213960</id>
	<title>Re:You have a couple of options.</title>
	<author>Teun</author>
	<datestamp>1266667560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>KDE out of the question, why???<p>
When you have limited RAM KDE is the better choice plus the experience is so much richer.</p><p>
These days the LXDE desktop is the install of choice for low RAM systems, I've got it working well on 128MB.</p><p>
There is hardly any need for the command line in a modern Linux DE, please leave the FUD to MS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>KDE out of the question , why ? ? ?
When you have limited RAM KDE is the better choice plus the experience is so much richer .
These days the LXDE desktop is the install of choice for low RAM systems , I 've got it working well on 128MB .
There is hardly any need for the command line in a modern Linux DE , please leave the FUD to MS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>KDE out of the question, why???
When you have limited RAM KDE is the better choice plus the experience is so much richer.
These days the LXDE desktop is the install of choice for low RAM systems, I've got it working well on 128MB.
There is hardly any need for the command line in a modern Linux DE, please leave the FUD to MS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213470</id>
	<title>Try PC-BSD</title>
	<author>rhyous</author>
	<datestamp>1266663180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that you should give PC-BSD (http://www.pcbsd.org) a try.  It is working really well for me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that you should give PC-BSD ( http : //www.pcbsd.org ) a try .
It is working really well for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that you should give PC-BSD (http://www.pcbsd.org) a try.
It is working really well for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212196</id>
	<title>These guys would get thrown by a Mac?</title>
	<author>Baloo Uriza</author>
	<datestamp>1266698220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If these folks wouldn't get thrown by a Mac look and feel, Ubuntu should get 'er done nicely.  If they will get thrown off by a different GUI, I seriously question whether these folks are smart enough to drive a car in another state than the one they learned to drive in, or when renting a different vehicle than the one they own...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If these folks would n't get thrown by a Mac look and feel , Ubuntu should get 'er done nicely .
If they will get thrown off by a different GUI , I seriously question whether these folks are smart enough to drive a car in another state than the one they learned to drive in , or when renting a different vehicle than the one they own.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If these folks wouldn't get thrown by a Mac look and feel, Ubuntu should get 'er done nicely.
If they will get thrown off by a different GUI, I seriously question whether these folks are smart enough to drive a car in another state than the one they learned to drive in, or when renting a different vehicle than the one they own...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31220012</id>
	<title>Win XP refugee LOOK HERE</title>
	<author>NeoDot</author>
	<datestamp>1266778860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Newbie? Tired of Windows security failings? Crave stability? Want better comprehensive and smoother upgrades? What more choice; for free?

This is my guide:

Prerequisites: 384MB of Ram or better; basically. Else see Puppy Linux to replace old 98 machines.

You will also need to make a CD (or DVD if you have one). Else you can order a free one, and wait. Just be sure to "burn" the ".iso" file, as an image and not as a file.

You might start with your carefully selected version of Mint. Such as the new KDE version. There less to set up and you can install and play with ease. This will show you, what you are missing.

To cut to the chase, I still recommend www.Kubuntu.org with KDE (Yes, over Ubuntu unless you just prefer "Gnome", it's good too.)

With Kubuntu you have to add a few things that Mint does, out of the box; but it's not hard. The trick is, you just go on the internet and find the quick commands and learn the "switches" to check off; that let you add what politics didn't allow Kubuntu to do automatically; out of the box. In the end and after you are familar with the system, Kubuntu will better branch out and do more tasks taht people want to get done.

Now why would you add an extra step, even if easy. Because Kubuntu is better mold able to you exacting tasks and yet still represents taking care of the ground work, with it's progressive upgrades, better than anything else. It's also closer to the Windows UI, than anything else, right out of the box (Yet all that's customizable).

Kubuntu, like all systems, has it's cons. I my opinion it's the less of all evils, including Windows and OS-X. You can go all-out and just run Kubuntu (to maintain just one thing) or you may dual boot with you old Windows. You can do both. Find a good on-line tutorial; on how to pre-partition your Windows system (after backing your stuff up) using something like a "gparted" CD.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Newbie ?
Tired of Windows security failings ?
Crave stability ?
Want better comprehensive and smoother upgrades ?
What more choice ; for free ?
This is my guide : Prerequisites : 384MB of Ram or better ; basically .
Else see Puppy Linux to replace old 98 machines .
You will also need to make a CD ( or DVD if you have one ) .
Else you can order a free one , and wait .
Just be sure to " burn " the " .iso " file , as an image and not as a file .
You might start with your carefully selected version of Mint .
Such as the new KDE version .
There less to set up and you can install and play with ease .
This will show you , what you are missing .
To cut to the chase , I still recommend www.Kubuntu.org with KDE ( Yes , over Ubuntu unless you just prefer " Gnome " , it 's good too .
) With Kubuntu you have to add a few things that Mint does , out of the box ; but it 's not hard .
The trick is , you just go on the internet and find the quick commands and learn the " switches " to check off ; that let you add what politics did n't allow Kubuntu to do automatically ; out of the box .
In the end and after you are familar with the system , Kubuntu will better branch out and do more tasks taht people want to get done .
Now why would you add an extra step , even if easy .
Because Kubuntu is better mold able to you exacting tasks and yet still represents taking care of the ground work , with it 's progressive upgrades , better than anything else .
It 's also closer to the Windows UI , than anything else , right out of the box ( Yet all that 's customizable ) .
Kubuntu , like all systems , has it 's cons .
I my opinion it 's the less of all evils , including Windows and OS-X .
You can go all-out and just run Kubuntu ( to maintain just one thing ) or you may dual boot with you old Windows .
You can do both .
Find a good on-line tutorial ; on how to pre-partition your Windows system ( after backing your stuff up ) using something like a " gparted " CD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Newbie?
Tired of Windows security failings?
Crave stability?
Want better comprehensive and smoother upgrades?
What more choice; for free?
This is my guide:

Prerequisites: 384MB of Ram or better; basically.
Else see Puppy Linux to replace old 98 machines.
You will also need to make a CD (or DVD if you have one).
Else you can order a free one, and wait.
Just be sure to "burn" the ".iso" file, as an image and not as a file.
You might start with your carefully selected version of Mint.
Such as the new KDE version.
There less to set up and you can install and play with ease.
This will show you, what you are missing.
To cut to the chase, I still recommend www.Kubuntu.org with KDE (Yes, over Ubuntu unless you just prefer "Gnome", it's good too.
)

With Kubuntu you have to add a few things that Mint does, out of the box; but it's not hard.
The trick is, you just go on the internet and find the quick commands and learn the "switches" to check off; that let you add what politics didn't allow Kubuntu to do automatically; out of the box.
In the end and after you are familar with the system, Kubuntu will better branch out and do more tasks taht people want to get done.
Now why would you add an extra step, even if easy.
Because Kubuntu is better mold able to you exacting tasks and yet still represents taking care of the ground work, with it's progressive upgrades, better than anything else.
It's also closer to the Windows UI, than anything else, right out of the box (Yet all that's customizable).
Kubuntu, like all systems, has it's cons.
I my opinion it's the less of all evils, including Windows and OS-X.
You can go all-out and just run Kubuntu (to maintain just one thing) or you may dual boot with you old Windows.
You can do both.
Find a good on-line tutorial; on how to pre-partition your Windows system (after backing your stuff up) using something like a "gparted" CD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217514</id>
	<title>Re:Mint</title>
	<author>GPLHost-Thomas</author>
	<datestamp>1266755760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I suppose that you are talking about MiNT Is Not TOS, the Unix for Atari computers?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose that you are talking about MiNT Is Not TOS , the Unix for Atari computers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose that you are talking about MiNT Is Not TOS, the Unix for Atari computers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219042</id>
	<title>Linux for Windows</title>
	<author>Team5050</author>
	<datestamp>1266773520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Linux will never be windows nor should it be. Linux does take a little time to get it working. I've used SuSe since 6.1 and use it just for fun, for work and personal, I use Windows. Windows has it's own support, who do you call for Linux</htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux will never be windows nor should it be .
Linux does take a little time to get it working .
I 've used SuSe since 6.1 and use it just for fun , for work and personal , I use Windows .
Windows has it 's own support , who do you call for Linux</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux will never be windows nor should it be.
Linux does take a little time to get it working.
I've used SuSe since 6.1 and use it just for fun, for work and personal, I use Windows.
Windows has it's own support, who do you call for Linux</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212842</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Like many forums it lacks a sufficient garbage collection mechanism.  For the most part tech advice thats older than a year is useless cruft that should be deleted instead of living on for infinity only to complicate the search for relevant answers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Like many forums it lacks a sufficient garbage collection mechanism .
For the most part tech advice thats older than a year is useless cruft that should be deleted instead of living on for infinity only to complicate the search for relevant answers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like many forums it lacks a sufficient garbage collection mechanism.
For the most part tech advice thats older than a year is useless cruft that should be deleted instead of living on for infinity only to complicate the search for relevant answers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212284</id>
	<title>Communities</title>
	<author>NotBorg</author>
	<datestamp>1266698700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say: so what.  Do tech communities matter to non-techies?  Do former Windows users need or want a community?  Even though they didn't need one when using Windows?  The word from the Linux communities is that it is easy enough for anyone and easier than Windows.  It just works, right?</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I'm not trolling for Windows and it's great that Ubuntu has a community too.  There is value for many in having a friendly community to scrape tech tips from.  I just wonder if it really matters to a non-techie who is just looking to play videos, send e-mail, and visit Facebook.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to go out on a limb here and say : so what .
Do tech communities matter to non-techies ?
Do former Windows users need or want a community ?
Even though they did n't need one when using Windows ?
The word from the Linux communities is that it is easy enough for anyone and easier than Windows .
It just works , right ? Do n't get me wrong , I 'm not trolling for Windows and it 's great that Ubuntu has a community too .
There is value for many in having a friendly community to scrape tech tips from .
I just wonder if it really matters to a non-techie who is just looking to play videos , send e-mail , and visit Facebook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say: so what.
Do tech communities matter to non-techies?
Do former Windows users need or want a community?
Even though they didn't need one when using Windows?
The word from the Linux communities is that it is easy enough for anyone and easier than Windows.
It just works, right?Don't get me wrong, I'm not trolling for Windows and it's great that Ubuntu has a community too.
There is value for many in having a friendly community to scrape tech tips from.
I just wonder if it really matters to a non-techie who is just looking to play videos, send e-mail, and visit Facebook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212002</id>
	<title>Gentoo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whether they cope or not, they'll never bother you again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether they cope or not , they 'll never bother you again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether they cope or not, they'll never bother you again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212070</id>
	<title>Voice Chat apps</title>
	<author>spiffworks</author>
	<datestamp>1266697500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One thing that I had a problem with when converting non-tech interested people to linux was the unavailability of apps like google talk and yahoo messenger. I think empathy can do voice chat on google now, but yahoo is still off the table( which is a problem, because most of the people who you're talking about probably still have yahoo ids). As for the distro, don't choose anything that doesn't have synaptic or some other package manager where it is EASY to enable non-free repositories. This is absolutely critical, and the main reason why fedora failed totally with my friends when I tried to get them to use it. As for look and fell, most people just ignore the interface altogether and distill what they want pretty easily, so don't worry about that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing that I had a problem with when converting non-tech interested people to linux was the unavailability of apps like google talk and yahoo messenger .
I think empathy can do voice chat on google now , but yahoo is still off the table ( which is a problem , because most of the people who you 're talking about probably still have yahoo ids ) .
As for the distro , do n't choose anything that does n't have synaptic or some other package manager where it is EASY to enable non-free repositories .
This is absolutely critical , and the main reason why fedora failed totally with my friends when I tried to get them to use it .
As for look and fell , most people just ignore the interface altogether and distill what they want pretty easily , so do n't worry about that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing that I had a problem with when converting non-tech interested people to linux was the unavailability of apps like google talk and yahoo messenger.
I think empathy can do voice chat on google now, but yahoo is still off the table( which is a problem, because most of the people who you're talking about probably still have yahoo ids).
As for the distro, don't choose anything that doesn't have synaptic or some other package manager where it is EASY to enable non-free repositories.
This is absolutely critical, and the main reason why fedora failed totally with my friends when I tried to get them to use it.
As for look and fell, most people just ignore the interface altogether and distill what they want pretty easily, so don't worry about that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213488</id>
	<title>Linux distro XP interface clone</title>
	<author>Marin3</author>
	<datestamp>1266663300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/02/12/25/1331256/XPde-Cloning-the-XP-Interface" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://tech.slashdot.org/story/02/12/25/1331256/XPde-Cloning-the-XP-Interface</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //tech.slashdot.org/story/02/12/25/1331256/XPde-Cloning-the-XP-Interface [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://tech.slashdot.org/story/02/12/25/1331256/XPde-Cloning-the-XP-Interface [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211796</id>
	<title>Re:Why try to be Windows?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I completely agree. But I would go further. Do NOT "start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux" unless they specifically ask you to. Or at least specifically ask you something for which you feel that Linux would be the right solution.</p><p>You can recommend and install Linux for people who have no previous experience like (small) children. For others, make sure they understand what they gain and what they lose, and they really want it.</p><p>For most normal people I know who are fed up with viruses and Windows complexity, the right answer is usually a Mac.</p><p>And don't forget that many people who are quite computer-illiterate and only seem to use the web and email, actually do want and use much more. Like the Outlook address book and calendar, synced to their mobile phone...</p><p>Now for the people for whom you do install Linux, Ubuntu, Suse and others are all fine. KDE is more like Windows while Gnome is a bit more like Mac. One is more configurable and may seem more complex, while the other is simpler. I installed Ubuntu (which uses Gnome) for someone who seems happy with it, but who was already using Firefox and Thunderbird in Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I completely agree .
But I would go further .
Do NOT " start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux " unless they specifically ask you to .
Or at least specifically ask you something for which you feel that Linux would be the right solution.You can recommend and install Linux for people who have no previous experience like ( small ) children .
For others , make sure they understand what they gain and what they lose , and they really want it.For most normal people I know who are fed up with viruses and Windows complexity , the right answer is usually a Mac.And do n't forget that many people who are quite computer-illiterate and only seem to use the web and email , actually do want and use much more .
Like the Outlook address book and calendar , synced to their mobile phone...Now for the people for whom you do install Linux , Ubuntu , Suse and others are all fine .
KDE is more like Windows while Gnome is a bit more like Mac .
One is more configurable and may seem more complex , while the other is simpler .
I installed Ubuntu ( which uses Gnome ) for someone who seems happy with it , but who was already using Firefox and Thunderbird in Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I completely agree.
But I would go further.
Do NOT "start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux" unless they specifically ask you to.
Or at least specifically ask you something for which you feel that Linux would be the right solution.You can recommend and install Linux for people who have no previous experience like (small) children.
For others, make sure they understand what they gain and what they lose, and they really want it.For most normal people I know who are fed up with viruses and Windows complexity, the right answer is usually a Mac.And don't forget that many people who are quite computer-illiterate and only seem to use the web and email, actually do want and use much more.
Like the Outlook address book and calendar, synced to their mobile phone...Now for the people for whom you do install Linux, Ubuntu, Suse and others are all fine.
KDE is more like Windows while Gnome is a bit more like Mac.
One is more configurable and may seem more complex, while the other is simpler.
I installed Ubuntu (which uses Gnome) for someone who seems happy with it, but who was already using Firefox and Thunderbird in Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218844</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266771840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, keep the non-tech people off Linux entirely.  Just tell them it's a bad dream, and to go back to their regularly scheduled, mass-produced Windows experience.</p><p>This post was made in memory of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal\_September" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">September That Never Ended</a> [wikipedia.org], and was brought to you by the <a href="http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54" title="ubergeek.tv" rel="nofollow">letters S and V</a> [ubergeek.tv].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , keep the non-tech people off Linux entirely .
Just tell them it 's a bad dream , and to go back to their regularly scheduled , mass-produced Windows experience.This post was made in memory of the September That Never Ended [ wikipedia.org ] , and was brought to you by the letters S and V [ ubergeek.tv ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, keep the non-tech people off Linux entirely.
Just tell them it's a bad dream, and to go back to their regularly scheduled, mass-produced Windows experience.This post was made in memory of the September That Never Ended [wikipedia.org], and was brought to you by the letters S and V [ubergeek.tv].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31223492</id>
	<title>Biggest problem transitioning to Linux is..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266756420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in my opinion openoffice. Let me show you a real life example. Recently I've been coopering with some co-students on a subject which we are going to hand in. The other students I do this work with use Microsoft Word, and when I try to open their documents in Openoffice writer, I end up with problems, among other things:<br>1.) openoffice cant read words models/charts<br>2.) openoffice dont understand words commenting function properly<br>3.) openoffice dont understand words styles properly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..and so on</p><p>I always head back to the netbook I got from my employer with Vista &amp; Word to do this work. sad but true.</p><p>Dont misunderstand me, I love openoffice, and it works great when I am going to write a simple document but once I am going to do work with others, or read documents made in word I get problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in my opinion openoffice .
Let me show you a real life example .
Recently I 've been coopering with some co-students on a subject which we are going to hand in .
The other students I do this work with use Microsoft Word , and when I try to open their documents in Openoffice writer , I end up with problems , among other things : 1 .
) openoffice cant read words models/charts2 .
) openoffice dont understand words commenting function properly3 .
) openoffice dont understand words styles properly ..and so onI always head back to the netbook I got from my employer with Vista &amp; Word to do this work .
sad but true.Dont misunderstand me , I love openoffice , and it works great when I am going to write a simple document but once I am going to do work with others , or read documents made in word I get problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in my opinion openoffice.
Let me show you a real life example.
Recently I've been coopering with some co-students on a subject which we are going to hand in.
The other students I do this work with use Microsoft Word, and when I try to open their documents in Openoffice writer, I end up with problems, among other things:1.
) openoffice cant read words models/charts2.
) openoffice dont understand words commenting function properly3.
) openoffice dont understand words styles properly ..and so onI always head back to the netbook I got from my employer with Vista &amp; Word to do this work.
sad but true.Dont misunderstand me, I love openoffice, and it works great when I am going to write a simple document but once I am going to do work with others, or read documents made in word I get problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211836</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>future assassin</author>
	<datestamp>1266696060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Very nice and polished os which new comers will like very much. Not nasty looking like Ubuntu. I know I know its just eye candy but just like ass and titties its sells.
My gf has no problems navigating and using it as shes as computer hater and doesn't use computers much.

I've also ran OpenSUSE 11 before the last two versions of Mint and this was also a very nice and polished os.

Now having sung the praises of Mint I have to say that in the Mint 8 version compared to 7 there are some weird notebook related bugs that pop up once in a while and the Broadcom wireless drivers don't always work that well with my Dell 1720</htmltext>
<tokenext>Very nice and polished os which new comers will like very much .
Not nasty looking like Ubuntu .
I know I know its just eye candy but just like ass and titties its sells .
My gf has no problems navigating and using it as shes as computer hater and does n't use computers much .
I 've also ran OpenSUSE 11 before the last two versions of Mint and this was also a very nice and polished os .
Now having sung the praises of Mint I have to say that in the Mint 8 version compared to 7 there are some weird notebook related bugs that pop up once in a while and the Broadcom wireless drivers do n't always work that well with my Dell 1720</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very nice and polished os which new comers will like very much.
Not nasty looking like Ubuntu.
I know I know its just eye candy but just like ass and titties its sells.
My gf has no problems navigating and using it as shes as computer hater and doesn't use computers much.
I've also ran OpenSUSE 11 before the last two versions of Mint and this was also a very nice and polished os.
Now having sung the praises of Mint I have to say that in the Mint 8 version compared to 7 there are some weird notebook related bugs that pop up once in a while and the Broadcom wireless drivers don't always work that well with my Dell 1720</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214994</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266676260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice[...]it comes with a Flash player</i></p><p>Others in the ready-out-of-the-box category are: SuperOS (Ubuntu-based); Sabayon (Gentoo-based); Fedora Omega; Pardus (an independent bloodline--which has no boot-to-a-desktop CD yet).</p><p><i>Puppy[...]my daughter can use it</i></p><p>So, have you taught her how to be an admin yet? She *is* always running as root (as are all Puppy users).</p><p>gewg\_</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice [ ... ] it comes with a Flash playerOthers in the ready-out-of-the-box category are : SuperOS ( Ubuntu-based ) ; Sabayon ( Gentoo-based ) ; Fedora Omega ; Pardus ( an independent bloodline--which has no boot-to-a-desktop CD yet ) .Puppy [ ... ] my daughter can use itSo , have you taught her how to be an admin yet ?
She * is * always running as root ( as are all Puppy users ) .gewg \ _</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice[...]it comes with a Flash playerOthers in the ready-out-of-the-box category are: SuperOS (Ubuntu-based); Sabayon (Gentoo-based); Fedora Omega; Pardus (an independent bloodline--which has no boot-to-a-desktop CD yet).Puppy[...]my daughter can use itSo, have you taught her how to be an admin yet?
She *is* always running as root (as are all Puppy users).gewg\_</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212874</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212354</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266699120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>+1</p><p>I have to support ~12 private Computers for friends and family. ~7 years ago i was quite frustrated with windows. No antivirus software was really reliable. Several of them detecting viri and not being abled to delete them. Windows needed regular manual patching. Stupid users infecting their pcs with the same virus again and again and again. Oh yeah and those were still the times when pirated software rotated on burned cds in school-classes, were handed out by professors at universities or tutors on private photoshop-courses (I know the last is still true *shudder*).<br>I never considered linux an alternative until I came to know that guy who seriously used only linux for years already. He gave me a good introduction and helped me set-up linux on my own pc. Had to force myself to use it for a while until I really understood how easy it is to use and keep running. I switched the first person, the one who constantly infected his computer with all sorts of crap and he was amazed by his first system running really stable. A while after that, I had installed dual-boot systems on all systems I supported. Gave all of them a while to decide and all of them wanted the full switch after a while, but one. Since then, my workload to support those systems is really minimal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1I have to support ~ 12 private Computers for friends and family .
~ 7 years ago i was quite frustrated with windows .
No antivirus software was really reliable .
Several of them detecting viri and not being abled to delete them .
Windows needed regular manual patching .
Stupid users infecting their pcs with the same virus again and again and again .
Oh yeah and those were still the times when pirated software rotated on burned cds in school-classes , were handed out by professors at universities or tutors on private photoshop-courses ( I know the last is still true * shudder * ) .I never considered linux an alternative until I came to know that guy who seriously used only linux for years already .
He gave me a good introduction and helped me set-up linux on my own pc .
Had to force myself to use it for a while until I really understood how easy it is to use and keep running .
I switched the first person , the one who constantly infected his computer with all sorts of crap and he was amazed by his first system running really stable .
A while after that , I had installed dual-boot systems on all systems I supported .
Gave all of them a while to decide and all of them wanted the full switch after a while , but one .
Since then , my workload to support those systems is really minimal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1I have to support ~12 private Computers for friends and family.
~7 years ago i was quite frustrated with windows.
No antivirus software was really reliable.
Several of them detecting viri and not being abled to delete them.
Windows needed regular manual patching.
Stupid users infecting their pcs with the same virus again and again and again.
Oh yeah and those were still the times when pirated software rotated on burned cds in school-classes, were handed out by professors at universities or tutors on private photoshop-courses (I know the last is still true *shudder*).I never considered linux an alternative until I came to know that guy who seriously used only linux for years already.
He gave me a good introduction and helped me set-up linux on my own pc.
Had to force myself to use it for a while until I really understood how easy it is to use and keep running.
I switched the first person, the one who constantly infected his computer with all sorts of crap and he was amazed by his first system running really stable.
A while after that, I had installed dual-boot systems on all systems I supported.
Gave all of them a while to decide and all of them wanted the full switch after a while, but one.
Since then, my workload to support those systems is really minimal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218280</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1266766260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That will work for people who do not play particular games, who do not use an iPod, who do not use streaming netflix and who do not use ABC's proprietary streaming viewer.</p><p>It is an extremely smart strategy.  I'm serious.</p><p>Starting back in college I made it a point to only use multiplatform apps as much as possible.</p><p>I have avoided so much trouble environment hoping.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That will work for people who do not play particular games , who do not use an iPod , who do not use streaming netflix and who do not use ABC 's proprietary streaming viewer.It is an extremely smart strategy .
I 'm serious.Starting back in college I made it a point to only use multiplatform apps as much as possible.I have avoided so much trouble environment hoping .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That will work for people who do not play particular games, who do not use an iPod, who do not use streaming netflix and who do not use ABC's proprietary streaming viewer.It is an extremely smart strategy.
I'm serious.Starting back in college I made it a point to only use multiplatform apps as much as possible.I have avoided so much trouble environment hoping.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212252</id>
	<title>Distro not important</title>
	<author>Putr</author>
	<datestamp>1266698520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For such basic use, the distro is not that important.

I moved my parents from XP to debian with 1 ten minute tutorial. They are both over 55 and with minimal computer experiance.
Then i moved them again to Ubuntu with even less problems.

Since everything works the same it dosent really matter if it's at the top or at the bottom, the left or the right corner. Besides you can move the toolbars around.

PS: Both my parents agree that Ubuntu is easyer to use than XP, they say it's easyer to lurn because it functions are more logicaly placed.

My 2 cents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For such basic use , the distro is not that important .
I moved my parents from XP to debian with 1 ten minute tutorial .
They are both over 55 and with minimal computer experiance .
Then i moved them again to Ubuntu with even less problems .
Since everything works the same it dosent really matter if it 's at the top or at the bottom , the left or the right corner .
Besides you can move the toolbars around .
PS : Both my parents agree that Ubuntu is easyer to use than XP , they say it 's easyer to lurn because it functions are more logicaly placed .
My 2 cents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For such basic use, the distro is not that important.
I moved my parents from XP to debian with 1 ten minute tutorial.
They are both over 55 and with minimal computer experiance.
Then i moved them again to Ubuntu with even less problems.
Since everything works the same it dosent really matter if it's at the top or at the bottom, the left or the right corner.
Besides you can move the toolbars around.
PS: Both my parents agree that Ubuntu is easyer to use than XP, they say it's easyer to lurn because it functions are more logicaly placed.
My 2 cents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215988</id>
	<title>www.thinkpenguin.com</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266686640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ThinkPenguin.com need I say more? Go there. They got it all figured out. Contact them and ask for the packages they install on new systems. Install Ubuntu. It doesn't look like winblows but don't worry. It isn't relative. Looking like winblows isn't really that impotent. Just point out how easy it is to use Linux. Most people just double click on the icons on the desktop and don't know that they even have a start bar or how to really use the task bar anyway. The most novice of users can figure out how to shut down the computer too in the top right hand corner once you show them ONE TIME. If they know more you probably aren't going to be converting them. They are too much of a 'power user'. You'll kill two birds with one stone with the ThinkPenguin site.  They also have a phone number you can call for commercial support &amp; I think they sell in-home pc repair services too. Although they don't advertise the later. I'm not quite sure why. I thought that was pretty cool when I heard about it. I still want to know how they manage that one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ThinkPenguin.com need I say more ?
Go there .
They got it all figured out .
Contact them and ask for the packages they install on new systems .
Install Ubuntu .
It does n't look like winblows but do n't worry .
It is n't relative .
Looking like winblows is n't really that impotent .
Just point out how easy it is to use Linux .
Most people just double click on the icons on the desktop and do n't know that they even have a start bar or how to really use the task bar anyway .
The most novice of users can figure out how to shut down the computer too in the top right hand corner once you show them ONE TIME .
If they know more you probably are n't going to be converting them .
They are too much of a 'power user' .
You 'll kill two birds with one stone with the ThinkPenguin site .
They also have a phone number you can call for commercial support &amp; I think they sell in-home pc repair services too .
Although they do n't advertise the later .
I 'm not quite sure why .
I thought that was pretty cool when I heard about it .
I still want to know how they manage that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ThinkPenguin.com need I say more?
Go there.
They got it all figured out.
Contact them and ask for the packages they install on new systems.
Install Ubuntu.
It doesn't look like winblows but don't worry.
It isn't relative.
Looking like winblows isn't really that impotent.
Just point out how easy it is to use Linux.
Most people just double click on the icons on the desktop and don't know that they even have a start bar or how to really use the task bar anyway.
The most novice of users can figure out how to shut down the computer too in the top right hand corner once you show them ONE TIME.
If they know more you probably aren't going to be converting them.
They are too much of a 'power user'.
You'll kill two birds with one stone with the ThinkPenguin site.
They also have a phone number you can call for commercial support &amp; I think they sell in-home pc repair services too.
Although they don't advertise the later.
I'm not quite sure why.
I thought that was pretty cool when I heard about it.
I still want to know how they manage that one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1266695700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think Ubuntu may have the best community. And I think the community may be a big deal to a new user.</p><p>Also, I think Mint may be based on Ubuntu. As I understand it, Mint looks a bit more like Windows, and Mint offers more "out of the box."</p><p>I use debian lenny and xfce4 myself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think Ubuntu may have the best community .
And I think the community may be a big deal to a new user.Also , I think Mint may be based on Ubuntu .
As I understand it , Mint looks a bit more like Windows , and Mint offers more " out of the box .
" I use debian lenny and xfce4 myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think Ubuntu may have the best community.
And I think the community may be a big deal to a new user.Also, I think Mint may be based on Ubuntu.
As I understand it, Mint looks a bit more like Windows, and Mint offers more "out of the box.
"I use debian lenny and xfce4 myself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217516</id>
	<title>Xandros</title>
	<author>Demonoid-Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1266755820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I could post a bunch of reasons why Ubuntu is not the answer (try looking on the Ubuntu forums, read complaints on Slashdot, constant updates etc) - but the easiest way to answer the original question is to say:
Xandros.<p>
Same layout as Windows, imports Windows settings, includes the non-free software that Windows users usually want - installs similar to Windows (except the user can play Solitaire while installing).</p><p>
Point and click installs, solid single source support etc.</p><p>
Forums are not useful to basic Windows users, and tend to create more problems than they solve.</p><p>
I've tried Ubuntu (and Kubuntu), Mephis, Mint, PCLinux and others, as an OS for basic Windows users - and, unless I totally locked-down the machines... they broke them just as quick as they broke Windows.</p><p>
Caveats: any *nix is ideal for Windows users - if you:- lock it down; and, are there by your phone 24x7 to help them before they, um, start learning (by their mistakes).</p><p>You get what you pay for. Generally, the more it costs the more value you get. With GNU you pay by learning (and contributing). So the paid version of Xandros will give Windows users a similar level of support to Windows. Paid support from SUSE and Red Hat is more business oriented than Xandros.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could post a bunch of reasons why Ubuntu is not the answer ( try looking on the Ubuntu forums , read complaints on Slashdot , constant updates etc ) - but the easiest way to answer the original question is to say : Xandros .
Same layout as Windows , imports Windows settings , includes the non-free software that Windows users usually want - installs similar to Windows ( except the user can play Solitaire while installing ) .
Point and click installs , solid single source support etc .
Forums are not useful to basic Windows users , and tend to create more problems than they solve .
I 've tried Ubuntu ( and Kubuntu ) , Mephis , Mint , PCLinux and others , as an OS for basic Windows users - and , unless I totally locked-down the machines... they broke them just as quick as they broke Windows .
Caveats : any * nix is ideal for Windows users - if you : - lock it down ; and , are there by your phone 24x7 to help them before they , um , start learning ( by their mistakes ) .You get what you pay for .
Generally , the more it costs the more value you get .
With GNU you pay by learning ( and contributing ) .
So the paid version of Xandros will give Windows users a similar level of support to Windows .
Paid support from SUSE and Red Hat is more business oriented than Xandros .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could post a bunch of reasons why Ubuntu is not the answer (try looking on the Ubuntu forums, read complaints on Slashdot, constant updates etc) - but the easiest way to answer the original question is to say:
Xandros.
Same layout as Windows, imports Windows settings, includes the non-free software that Windows users usually want - installs similar to Windows (except the user can play Solitaire while installing).
Point and click installs, solid single source support etc.
Forums are not useful to basic Windows users, and tend to create more problems than they solve.
I've tried Ubuntu (and Kubuntu), Mephis, Mint, PCLinux and others, as an OS for basic Windows users - and, unless I totally locked-down the machines... they broke them just as quick as they broke Windows.
Caveats: any *nix is ideal for Windows users - if you:- lock it down; and, are there by your phone 24x7 to help them before they, um, start learning (by their mistakes).You get what you pay for.
Generally, the more it costs the more value you get.
With GNU you pay by learning (and contributing).
So the paid version of Xandros will give Windows users a similar level of support to Windows.
Paid support from SUSE and Red Hat is more business oriented than Xandros.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212234</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Dunge</author>
	<datestamp>1266698460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Linux is no use for these people, let them stick with what is easier, Windows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux is no use for these people , let them stick with what is easier , Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux is no use for these people, let them stick with what is easier, Windows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212062</id>
	<title>Leave them on XP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, save yourself and them all the hassle and leave them on XP.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , save yourself and them all the hassle and leave them on XP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, save yourself and them all the hassle and leave them on XP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215158</id>
	<title>linux alternative</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266677700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well there is PC-BSD. pcbsd.org</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well there is PC-BSD .
pcbsd.org</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well there is PC-BSD.
pcbsd.org</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211516</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Threni</author>
	<datestamp>1266694560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier, but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers, and didn't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros.  Also, Ubuntu seems to be by fair the most popular, which makes it easier to check if this or that game/gfx card/piece of hardware works.   And it's less nerdy to get obvious `this shouldn't be hard` stuff done, like installing software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier , but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers , and did n't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros .
Also , Ubuntu seems to be by fair the most popular , which makes it easier to check if this or that game/gfx card/piece of hardware works .
And it 's less nerdy to get obvious ` this should n't be hard ` stuff done , like installing software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier, but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers, and didn't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros.
Also, Ubuntu seems to be by fair the most popular, which makes it easier to check if this or that game/gfx card/piece of hardware works.
And it's less nerdy to get obvious `this shouldn't be hard` stuff done, like installing software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212780</id>
	<title>skimmed through comments</title>
	<author>marblesbot</author>
	<datestamp>1266658620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, you can make any distro look any way you want.  Next, PCLinuxOS IS a good distro but it is based on Mandriva, not Debian.  Mandriva was originally based on Red Hat.  Second, it's been my experience that "regular" Windows users don't know what an operating system is and don't even know the difference when you spring on them a different OS.  The only real concern you should have is security fixes.  So then you have to go with an OS that will tell them something needs to be updated, and then guides them through the update.  Ubuntu does have an automatic update feature now, but that seems like it could cause problems.  This all being said, I just did a minimal install of Ubuntu and then installed LXDE and a few other useful "normal user" apps on a box for family members who don't really know how to run a computer.  They aren't having any problems and haven't said anything about the difference between that and Windows XP.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , you can make any distro look any way you want .
Next , PCLinuxOS IS a good distro but it is based on Mandriva , not Debian .
Mandriva was originally based on Red Hat .
Second , it 's been my experience that " regular " Windows users do n't know what an operating system is and do n't even know the difference when you spring on them a different OS .
The only real concern you should have is security fixes .
So then you have to go with an OS that will tell them something needs to be updated , and then guides them through the update .
Ubuntu does have an automatic update feature now , but that seems like it could cause problems .
This all being said , I just did a minimal install of Ubuntu and then installed LXDE and a few other useful " normal user " apps on a box for family members who do n't really know how to run a computer .
They are n't having any problems and have n't said anything about the difference between that and Windows XP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, you can make any distro look any way you want.
Next, PCLinuxOS IS a good distro but it is based on Mandriva, not Debian.
Mandriva was originally based on Red Hat.
Second, it's been my experience that "regular" Windows users don't know what an operating system is and don't even know the difference when you spring on them a different OS.
The only real concern you should have is security fixes.
So then you have to go with an OS that will tell them something needs to be updated, and then guides them through the update.
Ubuntu does have an automatic update feature now, but that seems like it could cause problems.
This all being said, I just did a minimal install of Ubuntu and then installed LXDE and a few other useful "normal user" apps on a box for family members who don't really know how to run a computer.
They aren't having any problems and haven't said anything about the difference between that and Windows XP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214458</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>aaron552</author>
	<datestamp>1266671580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It works great out of the box, but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software, you will run into headaches.  "I can't install X without Y and Z dependencies?"  And then it's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro...</p></div><p>Seriously. Have you even used a linux distribution in the last 4 years?</p><p>For the most part, as long as you don't go outside your distribution's software repositories, you will run into very few (if any) problems. It's only when you try to install software you donwloaded from some random site that you will have problems</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It works great out of the box , but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software , you will run into headaches .
" I ca n't install X without Y and Z dependencies ?
" And then it 's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro...Seriously .
Have you even used a linux distribution in the last 4 years ? For the most part , as long as you do n't go outside your distribution 's software repositories , you will run into very few ( if any ) problems .
It 's only when you try to install software you donwloaded from some random site that you will have problems</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It works great out of the box, but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software, you will run into headaches.
"I can't install X without Y and Z dependencies?
"  And then it's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro...Seriously.
Have you even used a linux distribution in the last 4 years?For the most part, as long as you don't go outside your distribution's software repositories, you will run into very few (if any) problems.
It's only when you try to install software you donwloaded from some random site that you will have problems
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215012</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266676380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you are telling me that you are using a linux distro for 16 years and still has no idea about how to fiddle with X config? I don't get that</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you are telling me that you are using a linux distro for 16 years and still has no idea about how to fiddle with X config ?
I do n't get that</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you are telling me that you are using a linux distro for 16 years and still has no idea about how to fiddle with X config?
I don't get that</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211770</id>
	<title>Don't tell them it's Linux...</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...or they will scream "Oh noes! OMG!! The COMMAND LINE will eat my brain!!!" and freeze up.  Just install Ubuntu and let them think you've upgraded them to Windows 7.  Then they'll gripe a bit about the changes and settle down to use it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...or they will scream " Oh noes !
OMG ! ! The COMMAND LINE will eat my brain ! ! !
" and freeze up .
Just install Ubuntu and let them think you 've upgraded them to Windows 7 .
Then they 'll gripe a bit about the changes and settle down to use it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...or they will scream "Oh noes!
OMG!! The COMMAND LINE will eat my brain!!!
" and freeze up.
Just install Ubuntu and let them think you've upgraded them to Windows 7.
Then they'll gripe a bit about the changes and settle down to use it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211640</id>
	<title>Re:Debian</title>
	<author>cupantae</author>
	<datestamp>1266695160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've used Etch, but not Lenny:</p><p>I think Debian doesn't have as much "automagic" type stuff as Ubuntu. Sure, I don't like that kind of crap, but most people want to have codecs installed for them if they're needed, or to have a dialogue ask what to do about an iPod they just put in...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please correct me if I 'm wrong , because I 've used Etch , but not Lenny : I think Debian does n't have as much " automagic " type stuff as Ubuntu .
Sure , I do n't like that kind of crap , but most people want to have codecs installed for them if they 're needed , or to have a dialogue ask what to do about an iPod they just put in.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've used Etch, but not Lenny:I think Debian doesn't have as much "automagic" type stuff as Ubuntu.
Sure, I don't like that kind of crap, but most people want to have codecs installed for them if they're needed, or to have a dialogue ask what to do about an iPod they just put in...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211940</id>
	<title>Any distro will do</title>
	<author>cynicist</author>
	<datestamp>1266696660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really any of the most popular distros on distrowatch.org should work as long as they come with a GUI. KDE by default is oriented in a way similar to windows, and other DE's like Xfce or Gnome can be configured that way with very minimal effort. Any of the *buntu's, mandriva, opensuse, fedora, linux mint, debian, centos, and simply mepis should be suitable for your purpose. I would recommend that you start them off with something that you are familiar with in case there are issues. (similar package manager/desktop environment/configuration files among other things).
<br> <br>
If you are looking for themes they are all over the place.
<br> <br>
<a href="http://art.gnome.org/themes" title="gnome.org" rel="nofollow">http://art.gnome.org/themes</a> [gnome.org] <br>
<a href="http://gnome-look.org/" title="gnome-look.org" rel="nofollow">http://gnome-look.org/</a> [gnome-look.org] <br>
<a href="http://kde-look.org/" title="kde-look.org" rel="nofollow">http://kde-look.org/</a> [kde-look.org] <br>
<br> <br>
I introduced my mom to Ubuntu 2 years ago and she has been using it since without any problems. I do upgrades for her (she doesn't seem to notice otherwise) and I helped her get Google Earth installed. And with SSH access I can help her if something goes wrong from miles away. My favorite part of setting it up was telling her it was all free. She couldn't believe me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really any of the most popular distros on distrowatch.org should work as long as they come with a GUI .
KDE by default is oriented in a way similar to windows , and other DE 's like Xfce or Gnome can be configured that way with very minimal effort .
Any of the * buntu 's , mandriva , opensuse , fedora , linux mint , debian , centos , and simply mepis should be suitable for your purpose .
I would recommend that you start them off with something that you are familiar with in case there are issues .
( similar package manager/desktop environment/configuration files among other things ) .
If you are looking for themes they are all over the place .
http : //art.gnome.org/themes [ gnome.org ] http : //gnome-look.org/ [ gnome-look.org ] http : //kde-look.org/ [ kde-look.org ] I introduced my mom to Ubuntu 2 years ago and she has been using it since without any problems .
I do upgrades for her ( she does n't seem to notice otherwise ) and I helped her get Google Earth installed .
And with SSH access I can help her if something goes wrong from miles away .
My favorite part of setting it up was telling her it was all free .
She could n't believe me : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really any of the most popular distros on distrowatch.org should work as long as they come with a GUI.
KDE by default is oriented in a way similar to windows, and other DE's like Xfce or Gnome can be configured that way with very minimal effort.
Any of the *buntu's, mandriva, opensuse, fedora, linux mint, debian, centos, and simply mepis should be suitable for your purpose.
I would recommend that you start them off with something that you are familiar with in case there are issues.
(similar package manager/desktop environment/configuration files among other things).
If you are looking for themes they are all over the place.
http://art.gnome.org/themes [gnome.org] 
http://gnome-look.org/ [gnome-look.org] 
http://kde-look.org/ [kde-look.org] 
 
I introduced my mom to Ubuntu 2 years ago and she has been using it since without any problems.
I do upgrades for her (she doesn't seem to notice otherwise) and I helped her get Google Earth installed.
And with SSH access I can help her if something goes wrong from miles away.
My favorite part of setting it up was telling her it was all free.
She couldn't believe me :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31226714</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266869880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice. The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed.</p> </div><p>So, by this definition, any other distribution that ships flash player would also be "hands-down best out-of-the-box"?</p><p>However, I wonder, does Mint have a license for redistribution of Flash Player? According the the <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/pdfs/Reader\_Player\_AIR\_WWEULA-Combined-20080204\_1313.pdf" title="adobe.com">Adobe Flash Player EULA</a> [adobe.com], you may not re-distribute without a license. Nowhere on the Mint site can I find any details about whether Mint has such a license.</p><p>As far as I know, Mandriva does have a license, which is why they include Flash on One and Powerpack distributions (but not "Free", which is composed only of free software, and not in the non-free online repo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... apparently this is not allowed by the license terms they got from Adobe), so I guess that would make Mandriva "hands-down best out-of-the-box", but then again, I already knew that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>(BTW, apparently Adobe isn't allowing redistribution of the the Flash 10 alpha - which is desirable for x86\_64 systems)</p><p>Now, according to the Mint site, Mint doesn't include proprietary drivers, and I wonder how it can then be the best out-of-the-box distro.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice .
The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed .
So , by this definition , any other distribution that ships flash player would also be " hands-down best out-of-the-box " ? However , I wonder , does Mint have a license for redistribution of Flash Player ?
According the the Adobe Flash Player EULA [ adobe.com ] , you may not re-distribute without a license .
Nowhere on the Mint site can I find any details about whether Mint has such a license.As far as I know , Mandriva does have a license , which is why they include Flash on One and Powerpack distributions ( but not " Free " , which is composed only of free software , and not in the non-free online repo ... apparently this is not allowed by the license terms they got from Adobe ) , so I guess that would make Mandriva " hands-down best out-of-the-box " , but then again , I already knew that ... ( BTW , apparently Adobe is n't allowing redistribution of the the Flash 10 alpha - which is desirable for x86 \ _64 systems ) Now , according to the Mint site , Mint does n't include proprietary drivers , and I wonder how it can then be the best out-of-the-box distro .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice.
The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed.
So, by this definition, any other distribution that ships flash player would also be "hands-down best out-of-the-box"?However, I wonder, does Mint have a license for redistribution of Flash Player?
According the the Adobe Flash Player EULA [adobe.com], you may not re-distribute without a license.
Nowhere on the Mint site can I find any details about whether Mint has such a license.As far as I know, Mandriva does have a license, which is why they include Flash on One and Powerpack distributions (but not "Free", which is composed only of free software, and not in the non-free online repo ... apparently this is not allowed by the license terms they got from Adobe), so I guess that would make Mandriva "hands-down best out-of-the-box", but then again, I already knew that ...(BTW, apparently Adobe isn't allowing redistribution of the the Flash 10 alpha - which is desirable for x86\_64 systems)Now, according to the Mint site, Mint doesn't include proprietary drivers, and I wonder how it can then be the best out-of-the-box distro.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212874</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211692</id>
	<title>Definitely Linux Mint</title>
	<author>Dilligent</author>
	<datestamp>1266695400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Go for Linux Mint, it's based on Ubuntu (*not* Kubuntu, which is usually much less stable and less supported out there). LinuxMint tries to be the prettiest out there and even as a power-user, I love to see and use all the bling. Unlike your usual GNOME environment, the system bar is at the bottom, and doesn't look much different than the windows one.

I've never had a problem with LinuxMint stable-wise and the distrowatch.com index seems to agree that it's a very good platform.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Go for Linux Mint , it 's based on Ubuntu ( * not * Kubuntu , which is usually much less stable and less supported out there ) .
LinuxMint tries to be the prettiest out there and even as a power-user , I love to see and use all the bling .
Unlike your usual GNOME environment , the system bar is at the bottom , and does n't look much different than the windows one .
I 've never had a problem with LinuxMint stable-wise and the distrowatch.com index seems to agree that it 's a very good platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go for Linux Mint, it's based on Ubuntu (*not* Kubuntu, which is usually much less stable and less supported out there).
LinuxMint tries to be the prettiest out there and even as a power-user, I love to see and use all the bling.
Unlike your usual GNOME environment, the system bar is at the bottom, and doesn't look much different than the windows one.
I've never had a problem with LinuxMint stable-wise and the distrowatch.com index seems to agree that it's a very good platform.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211810</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>indrora</author>
	<datestamp>1266695940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I have to place a nice "Windows 7 did its job amazingly" note here.</p><p>I ran windows 7 on a machine with the following specs:<br>384MB of RAM<br>1Ghz Pentium 3/4 (cant remember which)<br>4MB graphics card<br>(see <a href="http://sonof.bandit.name/files/tehlaptop/wtf.png" title="bandit.name" rel="nofollow">http://sonof.bandit.name/files/tehlaptop/wtf.png</a> [bandit.name] )<br>It got a 1.0 on the scale, and I had to hack together some win2k drivers for it to work, but by god it worked and it had better boot times than Linux does on the same machine(a heavily stripped down Xubuntu), down to playing a few mildly graphics intensive games (but it wasnt going to play Quake any time soon. All I used it for was net browsing and IRC) and ran more stably than the 2k os that it came with.</p><p>Microsoft has actually done something right.</p><p>ON THE FLIPSIDE<br>I got my grandmother up to speed using Ubuntu in a few days, with a few problems here and there with things like scanners and odd bits and pieces. Granted she still wanted her windows machine back because its what worked (and did QuickBooks)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I have to place a nice " Windows 7 did its job amazingly " note here.I ran windows 7 on a machine with the following specs : 384MB of RAM1Ghz Pentium 3/4 ( cant remember which ) 4MB graphics card ( see http : //sonof.bandit.name/files/tehlaptop/wtf.png [ bandit.name ] ) It got a 1.0 on the scale , and I had to hack together some win2k drivers for it to work , but by god it worked and it had better boot times than Linux does on the same machine ( a heavily stripped down Xubuntu ) , down to playing a few mildly graphics intensive games ( but it wasnt going to play Quake any time soon .
All I used it for was net browsing and IRC ) and ran more stably than the 2k os that it came with.Microsoft has actually done something right.ON THE FLIPSIDEI got my grandmother up to speed using Ubuntu in a few days , with a few problems here and there with things like scanners and odd bits and pieces .
Granted she still wanted her windows machine back because its what worked ( and did QuickBooks )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I have to place a nice "Windows 7 did its job amazingly" note here.I ran windows 7 on a machine with the following specs:384MB of RAM1Ghz Pentium 3/4 (cant remember which)4MB graphics card(see http://sonof.bandit.name/files/tehlaptop/wtf.png [bandit.name] )It got a 1.0 on the scale, and I had to hack together some win2k drivers for it to work, but by god it worked and it had better boot times than Linux does on the same machine(a heavily stripped down Xubuntu), down to playing a few mildly graphics intensive games (but it wasnt going to play Quake any time soon.
All I used it for was net browsing and IRC) and ran more stably than the 2k os that it came with.Microsoft has actually done something right.ON THE FLIPSIDEI got my grandmother up to speed using Ubuntu in a few days, with a few problems here and there with things like scanners and odd bits and pieces.
Granted she still wanted her windows machine back because its what worked (and did QuickBooks)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213500</id>
	<title>iPad?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266663420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments"</p><p>Isn't this the sort of user that would actually be completely satisfied by the upcoming iPad? Sure, sure, it's not Linux, but I have to wonder if your motivation is to spread Linux or actually give the end user the best experience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" most of them only need browser , IM , VLC , mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments " Is n't this the sort of user that would actually be completely satisfied by the upcoming iPad ?
Sure , sure , it 's not Linux , but I have to wonder if your motivation is to spread Linux or actually give the end user the best experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments"Isn't this the sort of user that would actually be completely satisfied by the upcoming iPad?
Sure, sure, it's not Linux, but I have to wonder if your motivation is to spread Linux or actually give the end user the best experience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214024</id>
	<title>Re:Mint</title>
	<author>Mahalalel</author>
	<datestamp>1266668280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree, if you're going for a nice, clean, but snazzy sort of easy-to-get used to Windows feel, try Mint. It updates as regularly as Ubuntu does.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , if you 're going for a nice , clean , but snazzy sort of easy-to-get used to Windows feel , try Mint .
It updates as regularly as Ubuntu does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, if you're going for a nice, clean, but snazzy sort of easy-to-get used to Windows feel, try Mint.
It updates as regularly as Ubuntu does.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211508</id>
	<title>Choose a distro that has good KDE implementation</title>
	<author>bogaboga</author>
	<datestamp>1266694560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's why:</p><p><a href="http://kde.org/announcements/4.4/" title="kde.org">The latest incarnation of KDE</a> [kde.org] looks great. You must be warned though that the system your folks must be using has to be "powerful" enough. Here "powerful" is subjective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's why : The latest incarnation of KDE [ kde.org ] looks great .
You must be warned though that the system your folks must be using has to be " powerful " enough .
Here " powerful " is subjective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's why:The latest incarnation of KDE [kde.org] looks great.
You must be warned though that the system your folks must be using has to be "powerful" enough.
Here "powerful" is subjective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211532</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ubuntu or Kubuntu nuff' said</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu or Kubuntu nuff ' said</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu or Kubuntu nuff' said</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211402</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Drag all the gnome junk around until it looks sort of like windows, and set the background to #004E98<br>My parents just started using it, didn't really say anything and I haven't had any support calls in a year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Drag all the gnome junk around until it looks sort of like windows , and set the background to # 004E98My parents just started using it , did n't really say anything and I have n't had any support calls in a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drag all the gnome junk around until it looks sort of like windows, and set the background to #004E98My parents just started using it, didn't really say anything and I haven't had any support calls in a year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211558</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I too wlil chime in for 11.2 as a desktop system, even if you install KDE 3.5 instead of KDE 4.</p><p>Definitely, install from DVD, and copy the distribution RPM archive to the drive after and adjust the repo pointer.</p><p>Don't forget to do a 'zypper dup' after you install.  And set up a real user account (SuSE's installer will effectively force you to do this anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I too wlil chime in for 11.2 as a desktop system , even if you install KDE 3.5 instead of KDE 4.Definitely , install from DVD , and copy the distribution RPM archive to the drive after and adjust the repo pointer.Do n't forget to do a 'zypper dup ' after you install .
And set up a real user account ( SuSE 's installer will effectively force you to do this anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I too wlil chime in for 11.2 as a desktop system, even if you install KDE 3.5 instead of KDE 4.Definitely, install from DVD, and copy the distribution RPM archive to the drive after and adjust the repo pointer.Don't forget to do a 'zypper dup' after you install.
And set up a real user account (SuSE's installer will effectively force you to do this anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211762</id>
	<title>Don't bother.</title>
	<author>h0dg3s</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You obviously don't know that much about Linux yourself, and your friends and family are going to get pissed off when they try to use discs with Windows games/applications in the drive and they don't work.  Or when they download programs that don't work.  Yes, you can use Wine for some things, but it's still not going to work the same way as running a native Windows box.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You obviously do n't know that much about Linux yourself , and your friends and family are going to get pissed off when they try to use discs with Windows games/applications in the drive and they do n't work .
Or when they download programs that do n't work .
Yes , you can use Wine for some things , but it 's still not going to work the same way as running a native Windows box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You obviously don't know that much about Linux yourself, and your friends and family are going to get pissed off when they try to use discs with Windows games/applications in the drive and they don't work.
Or when they download programs that don't work.
Yes, you can use Wine for some things, but it's still not going to work the same way as running a native Windows box.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266693900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you really need to ask?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really need to ask ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really need to ask?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213882</id>
	<title>Re:I find KDE less frustrating than Gnome</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1266666720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.</p></div><p>Personally I dislike it for the same reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.Personally I dislike it for the same reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.Personally I dislike it for the same reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211486</id>
	<title>Anything KDE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have helped many friends make the transition and they all seem to warm up to pretty much any distro with KDE as long as you give them some a short tutorial on the package loader for that distro.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have helped many friends make the transition and they all seem to warm up to pretty much any distro with KDE as long as you give them some a short tutorial on the package loader for that distro .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have helped many friends make the transition and they all seem to warm up to pretty much any distro with KDE as long as you give them some a short tutorial on the package loader for that distro.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212638</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>zdzichu</author>
	<datestamp>1266657720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are mistaken. Linux Torvalds uses Fedora Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are mistaken .
Linux Torvalds uses Fedora Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are mistaken.
Linux Torvalds uses Fedora Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212498</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>digitig</author>
	<datestamp>1266656760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm afraid I'd have to say "None of them". Ubuntu just <em>mostly</em> works -- I've never got sound working properly, and the community hasn't been able to help me (and I'm at least moderately techie). I agree that the community is excellent, but I think the non-techie will still be left bewildered. They will get directed to the technical paper addressing their problem, but the community doesn't usually have the patience to <em>completely</em> hand-hold somebody all of the way. At very least the non-techie will need a techie to fully set up the system for them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm afraid I 'd have to say " None of them " .
Ubuntu just mostly works -- I 've never got sound working properly , and the community has n't been able to help me ( and I 'm at least moderately techie ) .
I agree that the community is excellent , but I think the non-techie will still be left bewildered .
They will get directed to the technical paper addressing their problem , but the community does n't usually have the patience to completely hand-hold somebody all of the way .
At very least the non-techie will need a techie to fully set up the system for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm afraid I'd have to say "None of them".
Ubuntu just mostly works -- I've never got sound working properly, and the community hasn't been able to help me (and I'm at least moderately techie).
I agree that the community is excellent, but I think the non-techie will still be left bewildered.
They will get directed to the technical paper addressing their problem, but the community doesn't usually have the patience to completely hand-hold somebody all of the way.
At very least the non-techie will need a techie to fully set up the system for them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213296</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266662100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you try gtkpod? I found that to work well with my ipod/iphone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you try gtkpod ?
I found that to work well with my ipod/iphone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you try gtkpod?
I found that to work well with my ipod/iphone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212100</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1266697680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems.</em> </p><p>
And if you install or support  Windows for them,  you're also bound for a lot of <b>headaches</b> with tech support,  viruses, spyware, questions, problems, etc
</p><p>
That you as a primarily Linux user will be less-equipped to answer or deal with,
if you use Linux as your primary OS,  unless you have good solid extensive IT experience administering Windows desktops, choosing software, etc,  in uncontrolled environments.
</p><p>
In most well-run IT environments, even in desktop support, you should have few issues that actually assist you in learning the right things.
</p><p>
Corporate AV and group policy settings  (strong policy/security controls) help keep an unruly OS  slightly more behaved than otherwise.
</p><p>
If you're in for a headache either way,  perhaps the Linux option is less of a headache long-term
</p><p>
Once the initial hurdles of  "get your daily stuff done" are crossed...   the  Linux system should be downright stable,  with little risk of  being exploited  (if you did the setup properly).
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Windows works for them , and they 're happy , you 're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support , questions , and problems .
And if you install or support Windows for them , you 're also bound for a lot of headaches with tech support , viruses , spyware , questions , problems , etc That you as a primarily Linux user will be less-equipped to answer or deal with , if you use Linux as your primary OS , unless you have good solid extensive IT experience administering Windows desktops , choosing software , etc , in uncontrolled environments .
In most well-run IT environments , even in desktop support , you should have few issues that actually assist you in learning the right things .
Corporate AV and group policy settings ( strong policy/security controls ) help keep an unruly OS slightly more behaved than otherwise .
If you 're in for a headache either way , perhaps the Linux option is less of a headache long-term Once the initial hurdles of " get your daily stuff done " are crossed... the Linux system should be downright stable , with little risk of being exploited ( if you did the setup properly ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems.
And if you install or support  Windows for them,  you're also bound for a lot of headaches with tech support,  viruses, spyware, questions, problems, etc

That you as a primarily Linux user will be less-equipped to answer or deal with,
if you use Linux as your primary OS,  unless you have good solid extensive IT experience administering Windows desktops, choosing software, etc,  in uncontrolled environments.
In most well-run IT environments, even in desktop support, you should have few issues that actually assist you in learning the right things.
Corporate AV and group policy settings  (strong policy/security controls) help keep an unruly OS  slightly more behaved than otherwise.
If you're in for a headache either way,  perhaps the Linux option is less of a headache long-term

Once the initial hurdles of  "get your daily stuff done" are crossed...   the  Linux system should be downright stable,  with little risk of  being exploited  (if you did the setup properly).
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213166</id>
	<title>Re:Linux terrorist</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266661200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They (and I) are tired of viruses, and face at least an upgrade to Vista in the near furtue. Don't use non-web games (except Scrabble).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They ( and I ) are tired of viruses , and face at least an upgrade to Vista in the near furtue .
Do n't use non-web games ( except Scrabble ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They (and I) are tired of viruses, and face at least an upgrade to Vista in the near furtue.
Don't use non-web games (except Scrabble).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212590</id>
	<title>Applications and remote-access matter, not distro</title>
	<author>Digicrat</author>
	<datestamp>1266657420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would start them off using Firefox and OpenOffice under Windows, if they aren't already.  If that's about all their using on the computer, then you can transition them to virtually any KDE or Gnome based distribution later with minimal hassle -- assuming you (the tech expert) are on hand for those inevitable questions.  Remote access helps.  For example, configuring the printer, installing some browser plug-ins that you forgot to setup, telling them that a pop-up ad really is just an ad and not a virus notification (yes, I know someone that was tricked by those), etc.</p><p>I've done this for two family members (who are at the computer=browser level of experience) already and haven't looked back.  I used Ubuntu in both cases, but realistically if your there to help any distribution you are comfortable with maintaining will work.  The non-tech user isn't likely to use any linux applications or functions you don't tell them about or maintain for them, and is inevitably going to turn to you for the usual tech questions no matter what. Ubuntu is nice though because as you train them in the ways of Linux, there's enough user-friendly GUIs for them to navigate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would start them off using Firefox and OpenOffice under Windows , if they are n't already .
If that 's about all their using on the computer , then you can transition them to virtually any KDE or Gnome based distribution later with minimal hassle -- assuming you ( the tech expert ) are on hand for those inevitable questions .
Remote access helps .
For example , configuring the printer , installing some browser plug-ins that you forgot to setup , telling them that a pop-up ad really is just an ad and not a virus notification ( yes , I know someone that was tricked by those ) , etc.I 've done this for two family members ( who are at the computer = browser level of experience ) already and have n't looked back .
I used Ubuntu in both cases , but realistically if your there to help any distribution you are comfortable with maintaining will work .
The non-tech user is n't likely to use any linux applications or functions you do n't tell them about or maintain for them , and is inevitably going to turn to you for the usual tech questions no matter what .
Ubuntu is nice though because as you train them in the ways of Linux , there 's enough user-friendly GUIs for them to navigate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would start them off using Firefox and OpenOffice under Windows, if they aren't already.
If that's about all their using on the computer, then you can transition them to virtually any KDE or Gnome based distribution later with minimal hassle -- assuming you (the tech expert) are on hand for those inevitable questions.
Remote access helps.
For example, configuring the printer, installing some browser plug-ins that you forgot to setup, telling them that a pop-up ad really is just an ad and not a virus notification (yes, I know someone that was tricked by those), etc.I've done this for two family members (who are at the computer=browser level of experience) already and haven't looked back.
I used Ubuntu in both cases, but realistically if your there to help any distribution you are comfortable with maintaining will work.
The non-tech user isn't likely to use any linux applications or functions you don't tell them about or maintain for them, and is inevitably going to turn to you for the usual tech questions no matter what.
Ubuntu is nice though because as you train them in the ways of Linux, there's enough user-friendly GUIs for them to navigate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31242656</id>
	<title>This is what I did</title>
	<author>thomasdn</author>
	<datestamp>1266926640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Both my mum, dad, sister, girlfriend, mother in law, girlfriends granddad(!) are using Ubuntu now. This is what I did.
</p><p>
First let them use Firefox and Thunderbird (if they use POP/IMAP mail) and maybe OpenOffice.org for some time. This will give them a hands on experience with alternatives to MS software.
For most of the users the introduction to Firefox was a blast. They quickly noticed a much better web experience compared to Internet Explorer.
</p><p>
Then I offered them to try Ubuntu LTS. Installed it on a small partition on the disk, so they had dual boot. Then I told them to use Ubuntu for all their web surfing needs, etc. and only start up Windows, if they had to do something that would not work in Ubuntu. I also made them write down what didn't work, and we would look at it next time I visited.
</p><p>
Some of the users soon just stopped ever booting in to Windows.
</p><p>
So here is the status:
<br>
 * mum: using Ubuntu LTS, but still has dual boot to Windows Vista because of a special application she needs at work.
<br>
 * dad: only using Ubuntu LTS. I have had one support question about how to find imported pictures from a digital camera.
<br>
 * sister: only using Ubuntu 9.10, but recently she needed a Windows application for school, so I installed Windows XP in VirtualBox. Apart from installing Win XP in Virtual Box, i have not had any support questions for over a year.
<br>
 * girlfriend: only uses Ubuntu 9.10. I never have any support questions.
<br>
 * mother in law: using Ubuntu LTS, I do not have any support questions. She primarily uses Firefox and OpenOffice. It Just Works for her.
<br>
 * girlfriends granddad(!): Using Xubuntu LTS. Font size has been increased a bit from the default. I had one question about how to install a very old printer. Turns out the printer did not work on the computer (did not have parallel port), so he got a new printer.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Both my mum , dad , sister , girlfriend , mother in law , girlfriends granddad ( !
) are using Ubuntu now .
This is what I did .
First let them use Firefox and Thunderbird ( if they use POP/IMAP mail ) and maybe OpenOffice.org for some time .
This will give them a hands on experience with alternatives to MS software .
For most of the users the introduction to Firefox was a blast .
They quickly noticed a much better web experience compared to Internet Explorer .
Then I offered them to try Ubuntu LTS .
Installed it on a small partition on the disk , so they had dual boot .
Then I told them to use Ubuntu for all their web surfing needs , etc .
and only start up Windows , if they had to do something that would not work in Ubuntu .
I also made them write down what did n't work , and we would look at it next time I visited .
Some of the users soon just stopped ever booting in to Windows .
So here is the status : * mum : using Ubuntu LTS , but still has dual boot to Windows Vista because of a special application she needs at work .
* dad : only using Ubuntu LTS .
I have had one support question about how to find imported pictures from a digital camera .
* sister : only using Ubuntu 9.10 , but recently she needed a Windows application for school , so I installed Windows XP in VirtualBox .
Apart from installing Win XP in Virtual Box , i have not had any support questions for over a year .
* girlfriend : only uses Ubuntu 9.10 .
I never have any support questions .
* mother in law : using Ubuntu LTS , I do not have any support questions .
She primarily uses Firefox and OpenOffice .
It Just Works for her .
* girlfriends granddad ( !
) : Using Xubuntu LTS .
Font size has been increased a bit from the default .
I had one question about how to install a very old printer .
Turns out the printer did not work on the computer ( did not have parallel port ) , so he got a new printer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Both my mum, dad, sister, girlfriend, mother in law, girlfriends granddad(!
) are using Ubuntu now.
This is what I did.
First let them use Firefox and Thunderbird (if they use POP/IMAP mail) and maybe OpenOffice.org for some time.
This will give them a hands on experience with alternatives to MS software.
For most of the users the introduction to Firefox was a blast.
They quickly noticed a much better web experience compared to Internet Explorer.
Then I offered them to try Ubuntu LTS.
Installed it on a small partition on the disk, so they had dual boot.
Then I told them to use Ubuntu for all their web surfing needs, etc.
and only start up Windows, if they had to do something that would not work in Ubuntu.
I also made them write down what didn't work, and we would look at it next time I visited.
Some of the users soon just stopped ever booting in to Windows.
So here is the status:

 * mum: using Ubuntu LTS, but still has dual boot to Windows Vista because of a special application she needs at work.
* dad: only using Ubuntu LTS.
I have had one support question about how to find imported pictures from a digital camera.
* sister: only using Ubuntu 9.10, but recently she needed a Windows application for school, so I installed Windows XP in VirtualBox.
Apart from installing Win XP in Virtual Box, i have not had any support questions for over a year.
* girlfriend: only uses Ubuntu 9.10.
I never have any support questions.
* mother in law: using Ubuntu LTS, I do not have any support questions.
She primarily uses Firefox and OpenOffice.
It Just Works for her.
* girlfriends granddad(!
): Using Xubuntu LTS.
Font size has been increased a bit from the default.
I had one question about how to install a very old printer.
Turns out the printer did not work on the computer (did not have parallel port), so he got a new printer.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213190</id>
	<title>Xubuntu</title>
	<author>Terminus32</author>
	<datestamp>1266661380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd recommend Xubuntu - it already comes with pretty much everything you need, and from there you can <i>apt-get</i> OpenOffice and the codecs you need.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd recommend Xubuntu - it already comes with pretty much everything you need , and from there you can apt-get OpenOffice and the codecs you need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd recommend Xubuntu - it already comes with pretty much everything you need, and from there you can apt-get OpenOffice and the codecs you need.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212268</id>
	<title>Kubuntu</title>
	<author>undecim</author>
	<datestamp>1266698640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The KDE interface that comes with Ubuntu will be very familiar to Windows users. The only major difference is in the click/double-click setup, but that can be changed in the "System Settings" dialog  (in KDE by default, a single click will open a file, which can be annoying if you are used to Windows)</p><p>However, you need a fairly powerful machine to run it comfortably. Anything that is "Vista Ready" or "Designed for Vista" will run it just fine. If you have more of an XP machine, Ubuntu can be tweaked to be more "Windows-like"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The KDE interface that comes with Ubuntu will be very familiar to Windows users .
The only major difference is in the click/double-click setup , but that can be changed in the " System Settings " dialog ( in KDE by default , a single click will open a file , which can be annoying if you are used to Windows ) However , you need a fairly powerful machine to run it comfortably .
Anything that is " Vista Ready " or " Designed for Vista " will run it just fine .
If you have more of an XP machine , Ubuntu can be tweaked to be more " Windows-like "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The KDE interface that comes with Ubuntu will be very familiar to Windows users.
The only major difference is in the click/double-click setup, but that can be changed in the "System Settings" dialog  (in KDE by default, a single click will open a file, which can be annoying if you are used to Windows)However, you need a fairly powerful machine to run it comfortably.
Anything that is "Vista Ready" or "Designed for Vista" will run it just fine.
If you have more of an XP machine, Ubuntu can be tweaked to be more "Windows-like"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213346</id>
	<title>good reasons for linux for old users</title>
	<author>gameres</author>
	<datestamp>1266662400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally I like OpenSuse, but don't want to argue distros here.

One think I would suggest is to try out the Live CD's first and settle yourself on one and then distribute that one across the board.  It's a lot easier to diagnose things if you have the same distro and version.

I do have to disagree with the gamer comments above.  I think that the poster has "clients" like mine that just want to surf, email and write the occasional word and excel documents.  Open office is fine for this.  most people i do this fine are fine with the games that come with linux like solitaire and frozen bubble.

One thing to really look at is the desktop.  even though people argue about distros the real difference is the desktop.  Personally I prefer KDE to gnome but that's my preference.

In my case the main reason to do this is updating an older pc that windows is getting slower and slower on.  The reason I love linux is the fact that it doesn't suffer from windows registry rot.  The linux machines i've installed are all still running.  The windows machines all seem to get slower after the first shareware and games get installed.  (Not to mention installing anti-virus software which is really necessary but an overhead on some already ancient machines.

Just my 2 cents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I like OpenSuse , but do n't want to argue distros here .
One think I would suggest is to try out the Live CD 's first and settle yourself on one and then distribute that one across the board .
It 's a lot easier to diagnose things if you have the same distro and version .
I do have to disagree with the gamer comments above .
I think that the poster has " clients " like mine that just want to surf , email and write the occasional word and excel documents .
Open office is fine for this .
most people i do this fine are fine with the games that come with linux like solitaire and frozen bubble .
One thing to really look at is the desktop .
even though people argue about distros the real difference is the desktop .
Personally I prefer KDE to gnome but that 's my preference .
In my case the main reason to do this is updating an older pc that windows is getting slower and slower on .
The reason I love linux is the fact that it does n't suffer from windows registry rot .
The linux machines i 've installed are all still running .
The windows machines all seem to get slower after the first shareware and games get installed .
( Not to mention installing anti-virus software which is really necessary but an overhead on some already ancient machines .
Just my 2 cents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I like OpenSuse, but don't want to argue distros here.
One think I would suggest is to try out the Live CD's first and settle yourself on one and then distribute that one across the board.
It's a lot easier to diagnose things if you have the same distro and version.
I do have to disagree with the gamer comments above.
I think that the poster has "clients" like mine that just want to surf, email and write the occasional word and excel documents.
Open office is fine for this.
most people i do this fine are fine with the games that come with linux like solitaire and frozen bubble.
One thing to really look at is the desktop.
even though people argue about distros the real difference is the desktop.
Personally I prefer KDE to gnome but that's my preference.
In my case the main reason to do this is updating an older pc that windows is getting slower and slower on.
The reason I love linux is the fact that it doesn't suffer from windows registry rot.
The linux machines i've installed are all still running.
The windows machines all seem to get slower after the first shareware and games get installed.
(Not to mention installing anti-virus software which is really necessary but an overhead on some already ancient machines.
Just my 2 cents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213392</id>
	<title>Kubuntu</title>
	<author>Redlazer</author>
	<datestamp>1266662700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been evaluating Kubuntu for use with illiterates for a while now. The extreme ease of use initially really helps things move smoothly, and I haven't had any other problems with stability or anything like that.
<p>
I've never taken Suse seriously - it bothers me. We used it in school and it was like the Mac version of KDE. Freaked me out : )
</p><p>
Really though, you're better off giving them Windows. There's always something.  I decided against installing Linux on a newbies computer because what little they had actually managed to learn was seared into their brain from years of suffering from misunderstandings, and they will most likely refuse to unlearn them. They WON'T go looking for the control panel, as I'm pretty sure only people who know what theyre doing go in there anyways.
</p><p>
The problem is that illiterates are ruled by fear, intimidation, and live by routine and predictability.
</p><p>
Just give them 7. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OS, and yes, it is way better than XP.
</p><p>
If you want to give it a shot for the sake of the experiment, let us know your results! Give one Kubuntu, one Suse, and one 7 : )
</p><p>
-Red</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been evaluating Kubuntu for use with illiterates for a while now .
The extreme ease of use initially really helps things move smoothly , and I have n't had any other problems with stability or anything like that .
I 've never taken Suse seriously - it bothers me .
We used it in school and it was like the Mac version of KDE .
Freaked me out : ) Really though , you 're better off giving them Windows .
There 's always something .
I decided against installing Linux on a newbies computer because what little they had actually managed to learn was seared into their brain from years of suffering from misunderstandings , and they will most likely refuse to unlearn them .
They WO N'T go looking for the control panel , as I 'm pretty sure only people who know what theyre doing go in there anyways .
The problem is that illiterates are ruled by fear , intimidation , and live by routine and predictability .
Just give them 7 .
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OS , and yes , it is way better than XP .
If you want to give it a shot for the sake of the experiment , let us know your results !
Give one Kubuntu , one Suse , and one 7 : ) -Red</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been evaluating Kubuntu for use with illiterates for a while now.
The extreme ease of use initially really helps things move smoothly, and I haven't had any other problems with stability or anything like that.
I've never taken Suse seriously - it bothers me.
We used it in school and it was like the Mac version of KDE.
Freaked me out : )

Really though, you're better off giving them Windows.
There's always something.
I decided against installing Linux on a newbies computer because what little they had actually managed to learn was seared into their brain from years of suffering from misunderstandings, and they will most likely refuse to unlearn them.
They WON'T go looking for the control panel, as I'm pretty sure only people who know what theyre doing go in there anyways.
The problem is that illiterates are ruled by fear, intimidation, and live by routine and predictability.
Just give them 7.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OS, and yes, it is way better than XP.
If you want to give it a shot for the sake of the experiment, let us know your results!
Give one Kubuntu, one Suse, and one 7 : )

-Red</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217468</id>
	<title>Mint</title>
	<author>adam.skinner</author>
	<datestamp>1266754500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linux Mint is the way to go.  It's like Ubuntu, but with all the stuff non-free stuff everyone ends up installing already bundled in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux Mint is the way to go .
It 's like Ubuntu , but with all the stuff non-free stuff everyone ends up installing already bundled in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux Mint is the way to go.
It's like Ubuntu, but with all the stuff non-free stuff everyone ends up installing already bundled in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217494</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266755400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd select one of the Ubuntu long term support packages, stay away from the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.10 version the standard<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.04 versions with the exception of 8.04 are very stable &amp; seem to work well also it supports almost any printer, scanner, cell phone or music player, this is an import item for some users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd select one of the Ubuntu long term support packages , stay away from the .10 version the standard .04 versions with the exception of 8.04 are very stable &amp; seem to work well also it supports almost any printer , scanner , cell phone or music player , this is an import item for some users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd select one of the Ubuntu long term support packages, stay away from the .10 version the standard .04 versions with the exception of 8.04 are very stable &amp; seem to work well also it supports almost any printer, scanner, cell phone or music player, this is an import item for some users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218462</id>
	<title>Ubuntu for me</title>
	<author>lduvall</author>
	<datestamp>1266767880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I continue to use Ubuntu, which for me has the best, most reliable installation and setup. I have several machines so I have tried other distros but stick with Ubuntu for my main machine. Suse 11.1 installed flawlessly. I tried 11.2 and it would not find my wireless - and I gave up. Mint now resides on the desktop - for the time being, but I still prefer Ubuntu.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I continue to use Ubuntu , which for me has the best , most reliable installation and setup .
I have several machines so I have tried other distros but stick with Ubuntu for my main machine .
Suse 11.1 installed flawlessly .
I tried 11.2 and it would not find my wireless - and I gave up .
Mint now resides on the desktop - for the time being , but I still prefer Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I continue to use Ubuntu, which for me has the best, most reliable installation and setup.
I have several machines so I have tried other distros but stick with Ubuntu for my main machine.
Suse 11.1 installed flawlessly.
I tried 11.2 and it would not find my wireless - and I gave up.
Mint now resides on the desktop - for the time being, but I still prefer Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211574</id>
	<title>the answer to your question, and then some</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1266694860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.</p></div><p>All you have to do to get this with Ubuntu is to move the task list from the bottom panel to the top, delete the bottom panel, and move the top panel to the bottom. With a little research you could probably do this from the console (or by extension, a script) with the gconftool-2 command. The menu items are already sufficiently similar to Windows.</p><p>Making it act like OSX is slightly harder, but not really difficult. Add the AWN testing team PPA (some of the mac features like pinning an app to the dock as a launcher require the new AWN) and install avant-window-navigator-trunk and all the plugins ending in -trunk, remove the gnome-panel from the list of required applications (again, via gconf) and configure Compiz to include the functionality of Expose and Spaces, which is quite simple.</p><p>For both Windows and OSX-looks, there are numerous available GTK+2 themes which will provide the appearance of your choice. OSX has three or four different widget sets; you get to pick one that looks like any of them (or variations thereof) and all the GTK+2 apps will look the same, something Apple hasn't been able to manage. Windows-look is much the same; you can find Windows 95/NT4, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, or various other appearances. Making the gnome-panel look like the Windows taskbar is a simple matter of using the right background image, which you ought to be able to download easily enough.</p><p>I use an OSX-look; The visual effects of Compiz are slower than the effects on OSX ever since Xgl was killed off. But the rest of the OS is generally more responsive, so the final effect is fairly positive. With that said, you might consider just getting them used to Ubuntu's look. The only big drawback to it is that having two taskbars wastes screen real estate. That's why I'm using AWN with auto-hide; it's very smart in the current release. Also, this is the first version of AWN which doesn't simply disappear when compiz dies, which makes it a valid tool for the average user, who probably doesn't want to have to hit Alt+F2 and run Compiz. Instead, you can give them a menu option. This is still better than what happens on Windows or the Mac when an element of the GUI system dies.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I 'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock , trash , info on the right , menu on the left , menu items similar to those of Windows.All you have to do to get this with Ubuntu is to move the task list from the bottom panel to the top , delete the bottom panel , and move the top panel to the bottom .
With a little research you could probably do this from the console ( or by extension , a script ) with the gconftool-2 command .
The menu items are already sufficiently similar to Windows.Making it act like OSX is slightly harder , but not really difficult .
Add the AWN testing team PPA ( some of the mac features like pinning an app to the dock as a launcher require the new AWN ) and install avant-window-navigator-trunk and all the plugins ending in -trunk , remove the gnome-panel from the list of required applications ( again , via gconf ) and configure Compiz to include the functionality of Expose and Spaces , which is quite simple.For both Windows and OSX-looks , there are numerous available GTK + 2 themes which will provide the appearance of your choice .
OSX has three or four different widget sets ; you get to pick one that looks like any of them ( or variations thereof ) and all the GTK + 2 apps will look the same , something Apple has n't been able to manage .
Windows-look is much the same ; you can find Windows 95/NT4 , Windows 98 , Windows XP , Windows Vista , Windows 7 , or various other appearances .
Making the gnome-panel look like the Windows taskbar is a simple matter of using the right background image , which you ought to be able to download easily enough.I use an OSX-look ; The visual effects of Compiz are slower than the effects on OSX ever since Xgl was killed off .
But the rest of the OS is generally more responsive , so the final effect is fairly positive .
With that said , you might consider just getting them used to Ubuntu 's look .
The only big drawback to it is that having two taskbars wastes screen real estate .
That 's why I 'm using AWN with auto-hide ; it 's very smart in the current release .
Also , this is the first version of AWN which does n't simply disappear when compiz dies , which makes it a valid tool for the average user , who probably does n't want to have to hit Alt + F2 and run Compiz .
Instead , you can give them a menu option .
This is still better than what happens on Windows or the Mac when an element of the GUI system dies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.All you have to do to get this with Ubuntu is to move the task list from the bottom panel to the top, delete the bottom panel, and move the top panel to the bottom.
With a little research you could probably do this from the console (or by extension, a script) with the gconftool-2 command.
The menu items are already sufficiently similar to Windows.Making it act like OSX is slightly harder, but not really difficult.
Add the AWN testing team PPA (some of the mac features like pinning an app to the dock as a launcher require the new AWN) and install avant-window-navigator-trunk and all the plugins ending in -trunk, remove the gnome-panel from the list of required applications (again, via gconf) and configure Compiz to include the functionality of Expose and Spaces, which is quite simple.For both Windows and OSX-looks, there are numerous available GTK+2 themes which will provide the appearance of your choice.
OSX has three or four different widget sets; you get to pick one that looks like any of them (or variations thereof) and all the GTK+2 apps will look the same, something Apple hasn't been able to manage.
Windows-look is much the same; you can find Windows 95/NT4, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, or various other appearances.
Making the gnome-panel look like the Windows taskbar is a simple matter of using the right background image, which you ought to be able to download easily enough.I use an OSX-look; The visual effects of Compiz are slower than the effects on OSX ever since Xgl was killed off.
But the rest of the OS is generally more responsive, so the final effect is fairly positive.
With that said, you might consider just getting them used to Ubuntu's look.
The only big drawback to it is that having two taskbars wastes screen real estate.
That's why I'm using AWN with auto-hide; it's very smart in the current release.
Also, this is the first version of AWN which doesn't simply disappear when compiz dies, which makes it a valid tool for the average user, who probably doesn't want to have to hit Alt+F2 and run Compiz.
Instead, you can give them a menu option.
This is still better than what happens on Windows or the Mac when an element of the GUI system dies.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213082</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>broeman</author>
	<datestamp>1266660540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I installed Linux Mint on my father's laptop last summer, after years of resentment "Linux? what's that, I need to use programs others use as well!". There was Vista preinstalled, but it seemed alienated to him and bloated (couldn't even connect to my wireless network), that he agreed to change it to "whatever". He uses it only for web, email and some office work (Firefox, Thunderbird and OO did the trick).<br>
<br>
I had to leave early after the installation, so I didn't get much feedback, but I didn't hear any cry for help. In the holidays, he expressed gratitude, and "how can unorganized people make so good a system?", hehe. He looked skeptical, when I started to upgrade the machine, as he is used to Microsoft's shenanigans (New flashy GUIs he doesn't really need!). But after the update from 5 to 7 (was pretty hard though, should probably have done a 5-6-7 and ATI closed source driver isn't supported any longer), I changed the theme back, and he went on using it, as nothing has happened<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>
<br>
Apparently he isn't a total non-techie, since he managed to installed some programs, since I have been away. And this was without showing him. But he didn't do any updates (I don't know why Mint uses a Lock as a update-symbol, it doesn't do the trick in my book (as a M.Sc. Interaction Designer and a study of visual design especially).<br>
<br>
On a side note, I am pretty annoyed about Ubuntu's screwups of the audio system though! On my laptop (Mint), I need PCM at 90, so it would sound ok, but Pulseaudio puts it at 100 at every use (so I use alsamixer instead). On my mediacenter (Ubuntu minimal), the AUX is making a hissing noise, so I have to turn it off at every boot, since it doesn't save alsa settings (and since it is minimal installation, it is not even pulseaudio that screws up this time). Both issues has happen recently at an update, but I have read on google, that many more have had this for years<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed Linux Mint on my father 's laptop last summer , after years of resentment " Linux ?
what 's that , I need to use programs others use as well ! " .
There was Vista preinstalled , but it seemed alienated to him and bloated ( could n't even connect to my wireless network ) , that he agreed to change it to " whatever " .
He uses it only for web , email and some office work ( Firefox , Thunderbird and OO did the trick ) .
I had to leave early after the installation , so I did n't get much feedback , but I did n't hear any cry for help .
In the holidays , he expressed gratitude , and " how can unorganized people make so good a system ?
" , hehe .
He looked skeptical , when I started to upgrade the machine , as he is used to Microsoft 's shenanigans ( New flashy GUIs he does n't really need ! ) .
But after the update from 5 to 7 ( was pretty hard though , should probably have done a 5-6-7 and ATI closed source driver is n't supported any longer ) , I changed the theme back , and he went on using it , as nothing has happened : ) Apparently he is n't a total non-techie , since he managed to installed some programs , since I have been away .
And this was without showing him .
But he did n't do any updates ( I do n't know why Mint uses a Lock as a update-symbol , it does n't do the trick in my book ( as a M.Sc .
Interaction Designer and a study of visual design especially ) .
On a side note , I am pretty annoyed about Ubuntu 's screwups of the audio system though !
On my laptop ( Mint ) , I need PCM at 90 , so it would sound ok , but Pulseaudio puts it at 100 at every use ( so I use alsamixer instead ) .
On my mediacenter ( Ubuntu minimal ) , the AUX is making a hissing noise , so I have to turn it off at every boot , since it does n't save alsa settings ( and since it is minimal installation , it is not even pulseaudio that screws up this time ) .
Both issues has happen recently at an update , but I have read on google , that many more have had this for years .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed Linux Mint on my father's laptop last summer, after years of resentment "Linux?
what's that, I need to use programs others use as well!".
There was Vista preinstalled, but it seemed alienated to him and bloated (couldn't even connect to my wireless network), that he agreed to change it to "whatever".
He uses it only for web, email and some office work (Firefox, Thunderbird and OO did the trick).
I had to leave early after the installation, so I didn't get much feedback, but I didn't hear any cry for help.
In the holidays, he expressed gratitude, and "how can unorganized people make so good a system?
", hehe.
He looked skeptical, when I started to upgrade the machine, as he is used to Microsoft's shenanigans (New flashy GUIs he doesn't really need!).
But after the update from 5 to 7 (was pretty hard though, should probably have done a 5-6-7 and ATI closed source driver isn't supported any longer), I changed the theme back, and he went on using it, as nothing has happened :)

Apparently he isn't a total non-techie, since he managed to installed some programs, since I have been away.
And this was without showing him.
But he didn't do any updates (I don't know why Mint uses a Lock as a update-symbol, it doesn't do the trick in my book (as a M.Sc.
Interaction Designer and a study of visual design especially).
On a side note, I am pretty annoyed about Ubuntu's screwups of the audio system though!
On my laptop (Mint), I need PCM at 90, so it would sound ok, but Pulseaudio puts it at 100 at every use (so I use alsamixer instead).
On my mediacenter (Ubuntu minimal), the AUX is making a hissing noise, so I have to turn it off at every boot, since it doesn't save alsa settings (and since it is minimal installation, it is not even pulseaudio that screws up this time).
Both issues has happen recently at an update, but I have read on google, that many more have had this for years ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213480</id>
	<title>Slackware</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266663240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know most people will disagree, but the fact is: once Slackware is up and running with all apps you want, there is virtually no maintenance required, apart from some firefox upgrades and such stuff, which can be done remotely anyway. And because it seems that you will be installing their distros anyway, you just have to prepare the needed packages (flash, vlc, etc.) once and then installs are a breeze.</p><p>Slackware is IMHO excessively feared of. Try it out and you will have an answer to your question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know most people will disagree , but the fact is : once Slackware is up and running with all apps you want , there is virtually no maintenance required , apart from some firefox upgrades and such stuff , which can be done remotely anyway .
And because it seems that you will be installing their distros anyway , you just have to prepare the needed packages ( flash , vlc , etc .
) once and then installs are a breeze.Slackware is IMHO excessively feared of .
Try it out and you will have an answer to your question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know most people will disagree, but the fact is: once Slackware is up and running with all apps you want, there is virtually no maintenance required, apart from some firefox upgrades and such stuff, which can be done remotely anyway.
And because it seems that you will be installing their distros anyway, you just have to prepare the needed packages (flash, vlc, etc.
) once and then installs are a breeze.Slackware is IMHO excessively feared of.
Try it out and you will have an answer to your question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215892</id>
	<title>Mint Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266685440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hands down mint linux for a windows looking taskbar and best out of box distro. (altough technically you shouldn't use it in the states has dvd playback as well as flash built into it.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hands down mint linux for a windows looking taskbar and best out of box distro .
( altough technically you should n't use it in the states has dvd playback as well as flash built into it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hands down mint linux for a windows looking taskbar and best out of box distro.
(altough technically you shouldn't use it in the states has dvd playback as well as flash built into it.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217256</id>
	<title>Re:Contrary to popular belief</title>
	<author>MikeFM</author>
	<datestamp>1266749640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. I've had exactly the same experience. It's the people who manage to delete all their system dll's trying to do something they don't understand that fight the hardest. They know just enough to be dangerous and don't want to learn a new system for the same reason they haven't mastered Windows. They usually know just enough to get World of Warcraft working on their grandma's 386 but once having achieved that they never went further because they would rather play games than write a custom driver.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I 've had exactly the same experience .
It 's the people who manage to delete all their system dll 's trying to do something they do n't understand that fight the hardest .
They know just enough to be dangerous and do n't want to learn a new system for the same reason they have n't mastered Windows .
They usually know just enough to get World of Warcraft working on their grandma 's 386 but once having achieved that they never went further because they would rather play games than write a custom driver .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I've had exactly the same experience.
It's the people who manage to delete all their system dll's trying to do something they don't understand that fight the hardest.
They know just enough to be dangerous and don't want to learn a new system for the same reason they haven't mastered Windows.
They usually know just enough to get World of Warcraft working on their grandma's 386 but once having achieved that they never went further because they would rather play games than write a custom driver.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218274</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1266766200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>See what you think of PcLinux  .  It's built on Debian,  so it's not too "fringey".  Here   are some screenshots.  It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface,  but not so closely as to be confused with Windows.  The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand,  and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to.</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>See what you think of PcLinux .
It 's built on Debian , so it 's not too " fringey " .
Here are some screenshots .
It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface , but not so closely as to be confused with Windows .
The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand , and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See what you think of PcLinux  .
It's built on Debian,  so it's not too "fringey".
Here   are some screenshots.
It compares nicely to the Windows XP User Interface,  but not so closely as to be confused with Windows.
The descriptions of programs are fairly easy for newbies to understand,  and even the front end for synaptic should make it pretty simple for them to add on programs if they want to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214858</id>
	<title>Anon Delivers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266675180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, I've heard cultists sound less devious and less determined to convert the world. You sure this FOSS sh1t is normal?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , I 've heard cultists sound less devious and less determined to convert the world .
You sure this FOSS sh1t is normal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, I've heard cultists sound less devious and less determined to convert the world.
You sure this FOSS sh1t is normal?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211674</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>uvajed\_ekil</author>
	<datestamp>1266695280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><br> <br>
Well, just because they are used to windows doesn't mean it is working well for them or that they do not need constant help with it. XP is beginning to look dated and has always been a security problem. We all know Vista is crap, so if they're using that, switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade. And if they are good enough with Windows that they don't need help with it, switching to Ubuntu (or Mint, even better) should not be difficult and will provide some peace of mind in terms of security. It didn't sound to me like the OP was just going in and fixing things that weren't broken just to piss people off - he maintains their computers, they care about what they can do rather than who makes their OS, and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , just because they are used to windows does n't mean it is working well for them or that they do not need constant help with it .
XP is beginning to look dated and has always been a security problem .
We all know Vista is crap , so if they 're using that , switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade .
And if they are good enough with Windows that they do n't need help with it , switching to Ubuntu ( or Mint , even better ) should not be difficult and will provide some peace of mind in terms of security .
It did n't sound to me like the OP was just going in and fixing things that were n't broken just to piss people off - he maintains their computers , they care about what they can do rather than who makes their OS , and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 
Well, just because they are used to windows doesn't mean it is working well for them or that they do not need constant help with it.
XP is beginning to look dated and has always been a security problem.
We all know Vista is crap, so if they're using that, switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade.
And if they are good enough with Windows that they don't need help with it, switching to Ubuntu (or Mint, even better) should not be difficult and will provide some peace of mind in terms of security.
It didn't sound to me like the OP was just going in and fixing things that weren't broken just to piss people off - he maintains their computers, they care about what they can do rather than who makes their OS, and their are reasonable alternatives to XP and Vista.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212294</id>
	<title>Re:If you think it has to look like XP, you're wro</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1266698820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, but your arguments, if one can call them that, are hair raising.<br>First of all: KDE 3.5?? That&rsquo;s phased out since what? A year? Why would you even bring that up, instead of KDE 4.4, which in street tests was shown to be so intuitive that people thought it was a good Windows 7.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>Then you start the full scale Gnome fanboi evangelism. No arguments why you think it&rsquo;s god&rsquo;s gift from the heavens, but just a &ldquo;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad\_populum" title="wikipedia.org">everyone does it</a> [wikipedia.org], and it is TEH BEST <em>per se</em>&rdquo;. How again am I to take you seriously that way?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/</p><p>The KDE or Gnome (OR XFCE, or a ton of other options for that matter!!!) question is one of if it fits your needs. Every option has its strengths and weaknesses.</p><p>Gnome&rsquo;s philosophy is that of making things simple, no matter what. It&rsquo;s their biggest priority. So big in fact, that they often sacrifice freedom of choice for it, by just leaving no setting to change things. But for users who don&rsquo;t know it better anyway, this is a great concept. Since they can trust someone with bigger competence on good choices. For a power user however, it&rsquo;s just unbearable.</p><p>KDE, on the other hand, when forced to choose between freedom and simplicity, goes the other way. Freedom to configure seems to be their biggest priority. So big in fact, that sometimes, you get lost in the settings and options, and feel like it&rsquo;s bloated. But for users who want their system to fit like a glove, this is a great concept. Since they can have <em>exactly</em> what they want. For a Jane Workerbee however, it&rsquo;s just unbearable.</p><p>Of course it&rsquo;s not that extreme in reality, and there are many gray areas. But that&rsquo;s the major difference IMHO.</p><p>So in conclusion: Only a fool speaks in absolutes.* There simply is no absolute good or bad. Weigh the pros and cons, look at how they fit <em>your</em> needs, and make an educated choice.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>\_\_\_<br>* Did you get the self-reference?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but your arguments , if one can call them that , are hair raising.First of all : KDE 3.5 ? ?
That    s phased out since what ?
A year ?
Why would you even bring that up , instead of KDE 4.4 , which in street tests was shown to be so intuitive that people thought it was a good Windows 7. ; ) Then you start the full scale Gnome fanboi evangelism .
No arguments why you think it    s god    s gift from the heavens , but just a    everyone does it [ wikipedia.org ] , and it is TEH BEST per se    .
How again am I to take you seriously that way ?
: /The KDE or Gnome ( OR XFCE , or a ton of other options for that matter ! ! !
) question is one of if it fits your needs .
Every option has its strengths and weaknesses.Gnome    s philosophy is that of making things simple , no matter what .
It    s their biggest priority .
So big in fact , that they often sacrifice freedom of choice for it , by just leaving no setting to change things .
But for users who don    t know it better anyway , this is a great concept .
Since they can trust someone with bigger competence on good choices .
For a power user however , it    s just unbearable.KDE , on the other hand , when forced to choose between freedom and simplicity , goes the other way .
Freedom to configure seems to be their biggest priority .
So big in fact , that sometimes , you get lost in the settings and options , and feel like it    s bloated .
But for users who want their system to fit like a glove , this is a great concept .
Since they can have exactly what they want .
For a Jane Workerbee however , it    s just unbearable.Of course it    s not that extreme in reality , and there are many gray areas .
But that    s the major difference IMHO.So in conclusion : Only a fool speaks in absolutes .
* There simply is no absolute good or bad .
Weigh the pros and cons , look at how they fit your needs , and make an educated choice .
: ) \ _ \ _ \ _ * Did you get the self-reference ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but your arguments, if one can call them that, are hair raising.First of all: KDE 3.5??
That’s phased out since what?
A year?
Why would you even bring that up, instead of KDE 4.4, which in street tests was shown to be so intuitive that people thought it was a good Windows 7. ;)Then you start the full scale Gnome fanboi evangelism.
No arguments why you think it’s god’s gift from the heavens, but just a “everyone does it [wikipedia.org], and it is TEH BEST per se”.
How again am I to take you seriously that way?
:/The KDE or Gnome (OR XFCE, or a ton of other options for that matter!!!
) question is one of if it fits your needs.
Every option has its strengths and weaknesses.Gnome’s philosophy is that of making things simple, no matter what.
It’s their biggest priority.
So big in fact, that they often sacrifice freedom of choice for it, by just leaving no setting to change things.
But for users who don’t know it better anyway, this is a great concept.
Since they can trust someone with bigger competence on good choices.
For a power user however, it’s just unbearable.KDE, on the other hand, when forced to choose between freedom and simplicity, goes the other way.
Freedom to configure seems to be their biggest priority.
So big in fact, that sometimes, you get lost in the settings and options, and feel like it’s bloated.
But for users who want their system to fit like a glove, this is a great concept.
Since they can have exactly what they want.
For a Jane Workerbee however, it’s just unbearable.Of course it’s not that extreme in reality, and there are many gray areas.
But that’s the major difference IMHO.So in conclusion: Only a fool speaks in absolutes.
* There simply is no absolute good or bad.
Weigh the pros and cons, look at how they fit your needs, and make an educated choice.
:)\_\_\_* Did you get the self-reference?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211472</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217154</id>
	<title>Recent experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266747960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had recent direct experiance with that versy problem.</p><p>In two recent isolated cases I was asked to fix a friends computer.<br>in both cases they were running pirated copies of Windows XP, and since I don't own any copies of windows at all (and don't have any pirated versions) i installed Linux Mint (ubuntu based). Of course I warned them what I was doing and was given the go-ahead. Mint installed on both machines without a hitch.</p><p>I checked in with both later, and both were not only happy, but satisfied and able to do whatever they were doing before.</p><p>What makes this even more unusual is that both people were very much non-tech sorts who would only have ever used windows.</p><p>So, Linux Mint looked good enough, and was enough like windows that the users could easily pick it up and understand how it worked.<br>Mint's site is at: http://www.linuxmint.com/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had recent direct experiance with that versy problem.In two recent isolated cases I was asked to fix a friends computer.in both cases they were running pirated copies of Windows XP , and since I do n't own any copies of windows at all ( and do n't have any pirated versions ) i installed Linux Mint ( ubuntu based ) .
Of course I warned them what I was doing and was given the go-ahead .
Mint installed on both machines without a hitch.I checked in with both later , and both were not only happy , but satisfied and able to do whatever they were doing before.What makes this even more unusual is that both people were very much non-tech sorts who would only have ever used windows.So , Linux Mint looked good enough , and was enough like windows that the users could easily pick it up and understand how it worked.Mint 's site is at : http : //www.linuxmint.com/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had recent direct experiance with that versy problem.In two recent isolated cases I was asked to fix a friends computer.in both cases they were running pirated copies of Windows XP, and since I don't own any copies of windows at all (and don't have any pirated versions) i installed Linux Mint (ubuntu based).
Of course I warned them what I was doing and was given the go-ahead.
Mint installed on both machines without a hitch.I checked in with both later, and both were not only happy, but satisfied and able to do whatever they were doing before.What makes this even more unusual is that both people were very much non-tech sorts who would only have ever used windows.So, Linux Mint looked good enough, and was enough like windows that the users could easily pick it up and understand how it worked.Mint's site is at: http://www.linuxmint.com/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212810</id>
	<title>OpenSuSE</title>
	<author>Hymer</author>
	<datestamp>1266658800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've migrated several people to OpenSuSE with success over the past years. Everything works, all nedded software is in the repository.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've migrated several people to OpenSuSE with success over the past years .
Everything works , all nedded software is in the repository .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've migrated several people to OpenSuSE with success over the past years.
Everything works, all nedded software is in the repository.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212742</id>
	<title>A pain and a bother?</title>
	<author>brad-x</author>
	<datestamp>1266658320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Windows 7 preserves almost all the metaphors and usage traits people are used to from XP, and introduces new convenience features. I think a transition to Windows 7 from XP would be a much smoother process than an introduction to a new platform.</p><p>

Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux, other than for ideological reasons?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Windows 7 preserves almost all the metaphors and usage traits people are used to from XP , and introduces new convenience features .
I think a transition to Windows 7 from XP would be a much smoother process than an introduction to a new platform .
Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux , other than for ideological reasons ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Windows 7 preserves almost all the metaphors and usage traits people are used to from XP, and introduces new convenience features.
I think a transition to Windows 7 from XP would be a much smoother process than an introduction to a new platform.
Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux, other than for ideological reasons?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213074</id>
	<title>Put this in your pipe and smoke it!</title>
	<author>voodoo cheesecake</author>
	<datestamp>1266660480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I say let's come up with a video for new linux users that is similar to the scene in the matrix when Morpheus first loaded the construct for Neo. Let it be a guided interactive tour where the user can learn more about the tasks they're interested in as it compares to the"other" OS.Let it show what other distributions can do. After a short time the users will drift towards a particular distribution they want to try. I believe something like this could leave a new linux user walking away from the experience with a sense of confidence instead of being overwhelmed and confused.
At the start of the video, guide them through all versions of windows and show the progress of microsoft. After that, point out the barriers and then break through them by letting them do the breaking through.
Show a 10 minute video with a visual representation of what goes on behind the scenes as linux installs - from moving the kernel into memory to first boot. The show how linux is all around them in various devices and on various servers across the internet.
Sow how microsoft puts up the barriers users don't see. Show how exploits have become integrated into Os's - focus stealing etc... Let's show how microsoft has had to bow down to open source - what open source does to free the strangle hold.

Many people learn visually, let's not neglect those folks. Many people have had so much hell with microsoft that they're afraid or unwilling to try anything new.

Let's get off our asses and put the final nail in the microsoft coffin!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say let 's come up with a video for new linux users that is similar to the scene in the matrix when Morpheus first loaded the construct for Neo .
Let it be a guided interactive tour where the user can learn more about the tasks they 're interested in as it compares to the " other " OS.Let it show what other distributions can do .
After a short time the users will drift towards a particular distribution they want to try .
I believe something like this could leave a new linux user walking away from the experience with a sense of confidence instead of being overwhelmed and confused .
At the start of the video , guide them through all versions of windows and show the progress of microsoft .
After that , point out the barriers and then break through them by letting them do the breaking through .
Show a 10 minute video with a visual representation of what goes on behind the scenes as linux installs - from moving the kernel into memory to first boot .
The show how linux is all around them in various devices and on various servers across the internet .
Sow how microsoft puts up the barriers users do n't see .
Show how exploits have become integrated into Os 's - focus stealing etc... Let 's show how microsoft has had to bow down to open source - what open source does to free the strangle hold .
Many people learn visually , let 's not neglect those folks .
Many people have had so much hell with microsoft that they 're afraid or unwilling to try anything new .
Let 's get off our asses and put the final nail in the microsoft coffin !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say let's come up with a video for new linux users that is similar to the scene in the matrix when Morpheus first loaded the construct for Neo.
Let it be a guided interactive tour where the user can learn more about the tasks they're interested in as it compares to the"other" OS.Let it show what other distributions can do.
After a short time the users will drift towards a particular distribution they want to try.
I believe something like this could leave a new linux user walking away from the experience with a sense of confidence instead of being overwhelmed and confused.
At the start of the video, guide them through all versions of windows and show the progress of microsoft.
After that, point out the barriers and then break through them by letting them do the breaking through.
Show a 10 minute video with a visual representation of what goes on behind the scenes as linux installs - from moving the kernel into memory to first boot.
The show how linux is all around them in various devices and on various servers across the internet.
Sow how microsoft puts up the barriers users don't see.
Show how exploits have become integrated into Os's - focus stealing etc... Let's show how microsoft has had to bow down to open source - what open source does to free the strangle hold.
Many people learn visually, let's not neglect those folks.
Many people have had so much hell with microsoft that they're afraid or unwilling to try anything new.
Let's get off our asses and put the final nail in the microsoft coffin!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215512</id>
	<title>Ubuntu, change the colors, panel on the bottom</title>
	<author>quixote9</author>
	<datestamp>1266681240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's all there is to it.  Ubuntu is easy.  You have to put all the proprietary multimedia stuff on yourself, but that's pretty much a matter of installing one package from synaptic: ubuntu-restricted-extras.  <br> <br>

Brown is ugly, so change the wallpaper.  Honestly.  Why people act like this is a showstopper beats me. <br> <br>

Last and far from least, put the panel where they're used to it, with the trash over there and the Start over here.  And you're all set.  <br> <br>

I set up laptops recently for my brother-in-law and his niece, both of them Windows users of the type who don't know a browser from a desktop.  I figured I'd have no end of support, but that would still be better than the even bigger infinity of sorting their machines out after their daily virus infections.<br> <br>

In over six months, they've had no problems. None.  There was one question: how to make the panel transparent because they were using different wallpaper.  <br> <br>

They're not the type to use forums for questions, but if they were, the ubuntu forums are the most informative and friendliest to noobs of the lot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all there is to it .
Ubuntu is easy .
You have to put all the proprietary multimedia stuff on yourself , but that 's pretty much a matter of installing one package from synaptic : ubuntu-restricted-extras .
Brown is ugly , so change the wallpaper .
Honestly. Why people act like this is a showstopper beats me .
Last and far from least , put the panel where they 're used to it , with the trash over there and the Start over here .
And you 're all set .
I set up laptops recently for my brother-in-law and his niece , both of them Windows users of the type who do n't know a browser from a desktop .
I figured I 'd have no end of support , but that would still be better than the even bigger infinity of sorting their machines out after their daily virus infections .
In over six months , they 've had no problems .
None. There was one question : how to make the panel transparent because they were using different wallpaper .
They 're not the type to use forums for questions , but if they were , the ubuntu forums are the most informative and friendliest to noobs of the lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all there is to it.
Ubuntu is easy.
You have to put all the proprietary multimedia stuff on yourself, but that's pretty much a matter of installing one package from synaptic: ubuntu-restricted-extras.
Brown is ugly, so change the wallpaper.
Honestly.  Why people act like this is a showstopper beats me.
Last and far from least, put the panel where they're used to it, with the trash over there and the Start over here.
And you're all set.
I set up laptops recently for my brother-in-law and his niece, both of them Windows users of the type who don't know a browser from a desktop.
I figured I'd have no end of support, but that would still be better than the even bigger infinity of sorting their machines out after their daily virus infections.
In over six months, they've had no problems.
None.  There was one question: how to make the panel transparent because they were using different wallpaper.
They're not the type to use forums for questions, but if they were, the ubuntu forums are the most informative and friendliest to noobs of the lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212134</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>jo\_ham</author>
	<datestamp>1266697920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Slashdot, where "-1 Flamebait" means "I prefer Ubuntu to SUSE and any argument to the contrary is just needless flaming of the one true distro!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot , where " -1 Flamebait " means " I prefer Ubuntu to SUSE and any argument to the contrary is just needless flaming of the one true distro !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot, where "-1 Flamebait" means "I prefer Ubuntu to SUSE and any argument to the contrary is just needless flaming of the one true distro!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213352</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1266662460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to beat you over the head with the WORKS4ME sign, but you must have some seriously bad luck. I've installed Linux now on 5 desktops and 3 laptops dating from about 2002 to present, and while I've struggled wtih wifi and suspend and sound and external firewire disks, I've always managed to get the basic desktop running. Or well the one laptop used to be impossible once some years ago, but a later kernel fixed that. I would recommend using a Live CD to boot with, if that works then the install should almost certainly work. If not, perhaps it's just not meant to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to beat you over the head with the WORKS4ME sign , but you must have some seriously bad luck .
I 've installed Linux now on 5 desktops and 3 laptops dating from about 2002 to present , and while I 've struggled wtih wifi and suspend and sound and external firewire disks , I 've always managed to get the basic desktop running .
Or well the one laptop used to be impossible once some years ago , but a later kernel fixed that .
I would recommend using a Live CD to boot with , if that works then the install should almost certainly work .
If not , perhaps it 's just not meant to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to beat you over the head with the WORKS4ME sign, but you must have some seriously bad luck.
I've installed Linux now on 5 desktops and 3 laptops dating from about 2002 to present, and while I've struggled wtih wifi and suspend and sound and external firewire disks, I've always managed to get the basic desktop running.
Or well the one laptop used to be impossible once some years ago, but a later kernel fixed that.
I would recommend using a Live CD to boot with, if that works then the install should almost certainly work.
If not, perhaps it's just not meant to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212004</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My first experience with Linux was with SuSE Linux and other distributions in 1994. I've used Linux as a server OS continuously since at least 1997.</p><p>Yesterday I tried to install Ubuntu 9.10 on a desktop system. In the end I gave up: Ubuntu just wouldn't let me use any resolution beyond 1024x768. Apparently it had failed to autodetect the monitor, a situation in which all FAQs, HowTos and forum help point to the X11 configuration file ("copy the config file over from an older installation" was frequent advice...). Let's ignore for a second that having to suid-edit a complicated text file to tell the OS about the monitor is an absolutely ridiculous UI failure: None of the manual configuration attempts even worked. Then I tried installing the proprietary ATI driver: Couldn't detect something and just quit. Googled advice: None really, but someone explained something about having to install kernel headers and other X11 devel-packets. Let me remind you that I was trying to set the display resolution. That was the end of the line for Ubuntu 9.10.</p><p>Then I installed OpenSuse 11.2. Same thing: Wouldn't let me use higher resolutions. No apparent way to specify the monitor. WTF? At least OpenSuse had the decency to put SaX, SuSE's X configuration tool, somewhere deep into the GUI menu, which then allowed me to choose a monitor and finally use its native resolution.</p><p>Is Linux being sabotaged? Are you guys out of your freaking minds? It's 2010! How can configuring the display resolution still be  a problem? Which Linux distribution for non-techies? MacOS or Windows. I'm serious. Any hope I had left for Linux on the desktop vanished yesterday.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My first experience with Linux was with SuSE Linux and other distributions in 1994 .
I 've used Linux as a server OS continuously since at least 1997.Yesterday I tried to install Ubuntu 9.10 on a desktop system .
In the end I gave up : Ubuntu just would n't let me use any resolution beyond 1024x768 .
Apparently it had failed to autodetect the monitor , a situation in which all FAQs , HowTos and forum help point to the X11 configuration file ( " copy the config file over from an older installation " was frequent advice... ) .
Let 's ignore for a second that having to suid-edit a complicated text file to tell the OS about the monitor is an absolutely ridiculous UI failure : None of the manual configuration attempts even worked .
Then I tried installing the proprietary ATI driver : Could n't detect something and just quit .
Googled advice : None really , but someone explained something about having to install kernel headers and other X11 devel-packets .
Let me remind you that I was trying to set the display resolution .
That was the end of the line for Ubuntu 9.10.Then I installed OpenSuse 11.2 .
Same thing : Would n't let me use higher resolutions .
No apparent way to specify the monitor .
WTF ? At least OpenSuse had the decency to put SaX , SuSE 's X configuration tool , somewhere deep into the GUI menu , which then allowed me to choose a monitor and finally use its native resolution.Is Linux being sabotaged ?
Are you guys out of your freaking minds ?
It 's 2010 !
How can configuring the display resolution still be a problem ?
Which Linux distribution for non-techies ?
MacOS or Windows .
I 'm serious .
Any hope I had left for Linux on the desktop vanished yesterday .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first experience with Linux was with SuSE Linux and other distributions in 1994.
I've used Linux as a server OS continuously since at least 1997.Yesterday I tried to install Ubuntu 9.10 on a desktop system.
In the end I gave up: Ubuntu just wouldn't let me use any resolution beyond 1024x768.
Apparently it had failed to autodetect the monitor, a situation in which all FAQs, HowTos and forum help point to the X11 configuration file ("copy the config file over from an older installation" was frequent advice...).
Let's ignore for a second that having to suid-edit a complicated text file to tell the OS about the monitor is an absolutely ridiculous UI failure: None of the manual configuration attempts even worked.
Then I tried installing the proprietary ATI driver: Couldn't detect something and just quit.
Googled advice: None really, but someone explained something about having to install kernel headers and other X11 devel-packets.
Let me remind you that I was trying to set the display resolution.
That was the end of the line for Ubuntu 9.10.Then I installed OpenSuse 11.2.
Same thing: Wouldn't let me use higher resolutions.
No apparent way to specify the monitor.
WTF? At least OpenSuse had the decency to put SaX, SuSE's X configuration tool, somewhere deep into the GUI menu, which then allowed me to choose a monitor and finally use its native resolution.Is Linux being sabotaged?
Are you guys out of your freaking minds?
It's 2010!
How can configuring the display resolution still be  a problem?
Which Linux distribution for non-techies?
MacOS or Windows.
I'm serious.
Any hope I had left for Linux on the desktop vanished yesterday.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211934</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Smivs</author>
	<datestamp>1266696600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can only agree. I switched from XP to Ubuntu about a year ago, and have never looked back. It's intuitive and easy to use and whilst not a Windows clone the (Gnome) desktop is clear and logical. It really does "Work out of the box". OK, I struggled a bit early on with some aspects (I wasn't used to the Command Line), but providing you set-up the computers with everything your family and friends need, and are prepared to visit them from time to time to install new stuff, you won't go far wrong.
<br>
They'll soon get used to the "New Look". Also they will immediately see the benefits (of Linux) such as the quick boot time, and in the long term, other benefits such as the lack of viruses etc will become clear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can only agree .
I switched from XP to Ubuntu about a year ago , and have never looked back .
It 's intuitive and easy to use and whilst not a Windows clone the ( Gnome ) desktop is clear and logical .
It really does " Work out of the box " .
OK , I struggled a bit early on with some aspects ( I was n't used to the Command Line ) , but providing you set-up the computers with everything your family and friends need , and are prepared to visit them from time to time to install new stuff , you wo n't go far wrong .
They 'll soon get used to the " New Look " .
Also they will immediately see the benefits ( of Linux ) such as the quick boot time , and in the long term , other benefits such as the lack of viruses etc will become clear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can only agree.
I switched from XP to Ubuntu about a year ago, and have never looked back.
It's intuitive and easy to use and whilst not a Windows clone the (Gnome) desktop is clear and logical.
It really does "Work out of the box".
OK, I struggled a bit early on with some aspects (I wasn't used to the Command Line), but providing you set-up the computers with everything your family and friends need, and are prepared to visit them from time to time to install new stuff, you won't go far wrong.
They'll soon get used to the "New Look".
Also they will immediately see the benefits (of Linux) such as the quick boot time, and in the long term, other benefits such as the lack of viruses etc will become clear.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211854</id>
	<title>Seconded</title>
	<author>copponex</author>
	<datestamp>1266696240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Point them to the best places to get good deals on Windows, Office, and decent anti-virus and backup. The $300-400 they would spend, or extra $200-300 on a new computer with all four items, will be far less than the time they lose transitioning to Linux.</p><p>If they don't have any money to spend, at least have them invest $50 in a hard drive so they can switch back if they need to.</p><p>Until Microsoft totally loses their mind and locks the entire user experience with DRM, there will not be enough momentum in the user application space to make it worthwhile. Either that, or the takeover of the internet applications will make the concept of an OS obsolete. This seems to be the wager of Google's Chrome OS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Point them to the best places to get good deals on Windows , Office , and decent anti-virus and backup .
The $ 300-400 they would spend , or extra $ 200-300 on a new computer with all four items , will be far less than the time they lose transitioning to Linux.If they do n't have any money to spend , at least have them invest $ 50 in a hard drive so they can switch back if they need to.Until Microsoft totally loses their mind and locks the entire user experience with DRM , there will not be enough momentum in the user application space to make it worthwhile .
Either that , or the takeover of the internet applications will make the concept of an OS obsolete .
This seems to be the wager of Google 's Chrome OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Point them to the best places to get good deals on Windows, Office, and decent anti-virus and backup.
The $300-400 they would spend, or extra $200-300 on a new computer with all four items, will be far less than the time they lose transitioning to Linux.If they don't have any money to spend, at least have them invest $50 in a hard drive so they can switch back if they need to.Until Microsoft totally loses their mind and locks the entire user experience with DRM, there will not be enough momentum in the user application space to make it worthwhile.
Either that, or the takeover of the internet applications will make the concept of an OS obsolete.
This seems to be the wager of Google's Chrome OS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31236860</id>
	<title>User friendly and simular to Windows XP Zorin OS</title>
	<author>barroomhero</author>
	<datestamp>1266836460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ubuntu is normally the go to distro.  However recently Linux mint (very much ubuntu/debian based) has surfaced as a good user friendly OS.  That being said, there is a little known flavor called Zorin OS, which is targeted for the big OS move from Windows to Linux.  Happy hunting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu is normally the go to distro .
However recently Linux mint ( very much ubuntu/debian based ) has surfaced as a good user friendly OS .
That being said , there is a little known flavor called Zorin OS , which is targeted for the big OS move from Windows to Linux .
Happy hunting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu is normally the go to distro.
However recently Linux mint (very much ubuntu/debian based) has surfaced as a good user friendly OS.
That being said, there is a little known flavor called Zorin OS, which is targeted for the big OS move from Windows to Linux.
Happy hunting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217170</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>MikeFM</author>
	<datestamp>1266748080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do a fresh install. Install DeepFreeze. Install a network attached automatic backup drive. Many problems will go away.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do a fresh install .
Install DeepFreeze .
Install a network attached automatic backup drive .
Many problems will go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do a fresh install.
Install DeepFreeze.
Install a network attached automatic backup drive.
Many problems will go away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</id>
	<title>ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but why bother transitioning them? If Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems. Let them continue to use Windows in peace, unless there's some kind of real pressing issue that leads you to recommend them switching.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question , but why bother transitioning them ?
If Windows works for them , and they 're happy , you 're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support , questions , and problems .
Let them continue to use Windows in peace , unless there 's some kind of real pressing issue that leads you to recommend them switching .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but why bother transitioning them?
If Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems.
Let them continue to use Windows in peace, unless there's some kind of real pressing issue that leads you to recommend them switching.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31227402</id>
	<title>Hardware</title>
	<author>dugeen</author>
	<datestamp>1266836940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What Linux distributions need is a reliable way of pre-checking which hardware items are and aren't supported. It's a waste of time going through the installation process and then finding that you can't print, scan, use a USB device unless it was connected at boot, or even middle-click to close a tab in Firefox, ffs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What Linux distributions need is a reliable way of pre-checking which hardware items are and are n't supported .
It 's a waste of time going through the installation process and then finding that you ca n't print , scan , use a USB device unless it was connected at boot , or even middle-click to close a tab in Firefox , ffs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What Linux distributions need is a reliable way of pre-checking which hardware items are and aren't supported.
It's a waste of time going through the installation process and then finding that you can't print, scan, use a USB device unless it was connected at boot, or even middle-click to close a tab in Firefox, ffs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211798</id>
	<title>If you're a "techie", why are you asking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't have the skill set to tailor a system specifically for their needs, how do you expect to help them when things go wrong?</p><p>It's one thing to promote open-source, but if you're going to be the go-to person for tech support, you'd better do your homework first.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't have the skill set to tailor a system specifically for their needs , how do you expect to help them when things go wrong ? It 's one thing to promote open-source , but if you 're going to be the go-to person for tech support , you 'd better do your homework first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't have the skill set to tailor a system specifically for their needs, how do you expect to help them when things go wrong?It's one thing to promote open-source, but if you're going to be the go-to person for tech support, you'd better do your homework first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31224932</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266767040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of the long time Linux users can be quite surly but most are helpful. I ran into a lot of it five years ago at the Houston Users Group.<br>I have no experience with Open Suse but believe it to be a good system from the reports I have read. I use Ubuntu and have installed it for my wife. We are very satisfied with it. I do all the configuring as she does not have any desire to do more than use the computer. I have installed Linux Mint 7 and 8 on two other laptops and the users are very happy with the interface. It is a little more like a Windows layout.<br>Good luck and thanks for considering Linux!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the long time Linux users can be quite surly but most are helpful .
I ran into a lot of it five years ago at the Houston Users Group.I have no experience with Open Suse but believe it to be a good system from the reports I have read .
I use Ubuntu and have installed it for my wife .
We are very satisfied with it .
I do all the configuring as she does not have any desire to do more than use the computer .
I have installed Linux Mint 7 and 8 on two other laptops and the users are very happy with the interface .
It is a little more like a Windows layout.Good luck and thanks for considering Linux !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the long time Linux users can be quite surly but most are helpful.
I ran into a lot of it five years ago at the Houston Users Group.I have no experience with Open Suse but believe it to be a good system from the reports I have read.
I use Ubuntu and have installed it for my wife.
We are very satisfied with it.
I do all the configuring as she does not have any desire to do more than use the computer.
I have installed Linux Mint 7 and 8 on two other laptops and the users are very happy with the interface.
It is a little more like a Windows layout.Good luck and thanks for considering Linux!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212918</id>
	<title>In your own words!</title>
	<author>prolene</author>
	<datestamp>1266659460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You wrote:

"Having at last"

Means a lot of work before you got it working, only satisfactorily, for your own self. It would be same for each person you deploy for. Unfortunately the lesson is only learned after you have tried for yourself.

In the end it gets clear that Linux is not ready for non-techies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You wrote : " Having at last " Means a lot of work before you got it working , only satisfactorily , for your own self .
It would be same for each person you deploy for .
Unfortunately the lesson is only learned after you have tried for yourself .
In the end it gets clear that Linux is not ready for non-techies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You wrote:

"Having at last"

Means a lot of work before you got it working, only satisfactorily, for your own self.
It would be same for each person you deploy for.
Unfortunately the lesson is only learned after you have tried for yourself.
In the end it gets clear that Linux is not ready for non-techies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211410</id>
	<title>Opensuse!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the most user friendly distribution that could be used in both server and desktop.</p><p>Use with Kde 4 and you've got something close to perfection.</p><p>It is one of the longest running distro as wel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the most user friendly distribution that could be used in both server and desktop.Use with Kde 4 and you 've got something close to perfection.It is one of the longest running distro as wel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the most user friendly distribution that could be used in both server and desktop.Use with Kde 4 and you've got something close to perfection.It is one of the longest running distro as wel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212030</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As of 2008, he was using Fedora:</p><p>http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/linus-torvalds,-geek-of-the-week/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As of 2008 , he was using Fedora : http : //www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/linus-torvalds,-geek-of-the-week/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As of 2008, he was using Fedora:http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/linus-torvalds,-geek-of-the-week/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211756</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>TheQuantumShift</author>
	<datestamp>1266695700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Out of the box it has all the features you describe. Flash, Java, A/V codecs all pre-installed along with the usual plethora of software. The only manual steps would be to install drivers (nvidia, some wifi; you'll be prompted by a notification balloon) and if you're in the US, edit<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/apt/sources.list and change the ubuntu repos to a local mirror. They're set by default to the main servers which apparently are connected to the net via the AT&amp;T EDGE network... The <a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/img/screenshots/gloria/22.png" title="linuxmint.com">MintMenu</a> [linuxmint.com] is a very good replacement for the start menu found in XP/Vista/7.
<br> <br>
But definitely hit up distrowatch and check out the screenshots and reviews. If the target machines are able to boot off USB stick, then grab <a href="http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net">unetbootin</a> [sourceforge.net] which will automate the process of downloading the iso and putting it on the stick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Out of the box it has all the features you describe .
Flash , Java , A/V codecs all pre-installed along with the usual plethora of software .
The only manual steps would be to install drivers ( nvidia , some wifi ; you 'll be prompted by a notification balloon ) and if you 're in the US , edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change the ubuntu repos to a local mirror .
They 're set by default to the main servers which apparently are connected to the net via the AT&amp;T EDGE network... The MintMenu [ linuxmint.com ] is a very good replacement for the start menu found in XP/Vista/7 .
But definitely hit up distrowatch and check out the screenshots and reviews .
If the target machines are able to boot off USB stick , then grab unetbootin [ sourceforge.net ] which will automate the process of downloading the iso and putting it on the stick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Out of the box it has all the features you describe.
Flash, Java, A/V codecs all pre-installed along with the usual plethora of software.
The only manual steps would be to install drivers (nvidia, some wifi; you'll be prompted by a notification balloon) and if you're in the US, edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change the ubuntu repos to a local mirror.
They're set by default to the main servers which apparently are connected to the net via the AT&amp;T EDGE network... The MintMenu [linuxmint.com] is a very good replacement for the start menu found in XP/Vista/7.
But definitely hit up distrowatch and check out the screenshots and reviews.
If the target machines are able to boot off USB stick, then grab unetbootin [sourceforge.net] which will automate the process of downloading the iso and putting it on the stick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213726</id>
	<title>Switch</title>
	<author>GDgonzo</author>
	<datestamp>1266665280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to get calls all the time from my father about his windows machine, I got fed up and switched him to ubuntu. The problems disappeared , now he just asks me once in a while how to do something. I honestly think that running the gnome desktop is all you really need for ease of use. Not that any other desktop manager or linux distro is worse. But those two seem to be the easiest IMHO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to get calls all the time from my father about his windows machine , I got fed up and switched him to ubuntu .
The problems disappeared , now he just asks me once in a while how to do something .
I honestly think that running the gnome desktop is all you really need for ease of use .
Not that any other desktop manager or linux distro is worse .
But those two seem to be the easiest IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to get calls all the time from my father about his windows machine, I got fed up and switched him to ubuntu.
The problems disappeared , now he just asks me once in a while how to do something.
I honestly think that running the gnome desktop is all you really need for ease of use.
Not that any other desktop manager or linux distro is worse.
But those two seem to be the easiest IMHO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212554</id>
	<title>Not ready for prime time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266657300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honestly, my advice is to not try it.</p><p>Linux is not a beginner operating system for two simple reasons:  Command lines and config files.</p><p>Sure, you can install Ubuntu and have a slick interface that&rsquo;s easy to use, but if something goes wrong or you want to customize something you almost always have to go to the terminal and/or edit config files.</p><p>To me I interprete this is as a sign of lazy design.  After all, it&rsquo;s easy to make a OS look nice and to make it easy to use, assuming nothing goes wrong.</p><p>Even something as easy as changing a display setting in Ubuntu requires the user to issue a gksudo command.  Want to install a Windows Media 9 codec?  That&rsquo;s command line work.</p><p>I think the FOSS community does not understand that the major hurtle is not making Linux easier to use, it&rsquo;s that it is still a GUI interface on top of a command line driven foundation and only hard core users want to have that sort of losely integrated approach (ask most mac users if they ever had to mess around with BSD).  To most people the ideal OS is one where you never need to go to the command line or modify a config file for any reason&mdash;including to adjust settings or fix problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , my advice is to not try it.Linux is not a beginner operating system for two simple reasons : Command lines and config files.Sure , you can install Ubuntu and have a slick interface that    s easy to use , but if something goes wrong or you want to customize something you almost always have to go to the terminal and/or edit config files.To me I interprete this is as a sign of lazy design .
After all , it    s easy to make a OS look nice and to make it easy to use , assuming nothing goes wrong.Even something as easy as changing a display setting in Ubuntu requires the user to issue a gksudo command .
Want to install a Windows Media 9 codec ?
That    s command line work.I think the FOSS community does not understand that the major hurtle is not making Linux easier to use , it    s that it is still a GUI interface on top of a command line driven foundation and only hard core users want to have that sort of losely integrated approach ( ask most mac users if they ever had to mess around with BSD ) .
To most people the ideal OS is one where you never need to go to the command line or modify a config file for any reason    including to adjust settings or fix problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, my advice is to not try it.Linux is not a beginner operating system for two simple reasons:  Command lines and config files.Sure, you can install Ubuntu and have a slick interface that’s easy to use, but if something goes wrong or you want to customize something you almost always have to go to the terminal and/or edit config files.To me I interprete this is as a sign of lazy design.
After all, it’s easy to make a OS look nice and to make it easy to use, assuming nothing goes wrong.Even something as easy as changing a display setting in Ubuntu requires the user to issue a gksudo command.
Want to install a Windows Media 9 codec?
That’s command line work.I think the FOSS community does not understand that the major hurtle is not making Linux easier to use, it’s that it is still a GUI interface on top of a command line driven foundation and only hard core users want to have that sort of losely integrated approach (ask most mac users if they ever had to mess around with BSD).
To most people the ideal OS is one where you never need to go to the command line or modify a config file for any reason—including to adjust settings or fix problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212064</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>beadwindow</author>
	<datestamp>1266697500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its got to be Mint an out of the box clean<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,good looking solution with codecs
a better Ubuntu</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its got to be Mint an out of the box clean ,good looking solution with codecs a better Ubuntu</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its got to be Mint an out of the box clean ,good looking solution with codecs
a better Ubuntu</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212260</id>
	<title>Easy choice</title>
	<author>IRWolfie-</author>
	<datestamp>1266698580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gentoo of course!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gentoo of course !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gentoo of course!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213544</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>icebrain</author>
	<datestamp>1266663720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?</p></div><p>Getting it installed and running was fairly easy.  Trying to do anything else besides browse the internet or use pre-installed programs was (and still is) a bitch.  On the fileserver I set up at home, it took me two full weekends just to get the samba shares working right and with what I hope are the proper permissions and group settings, and I spent a full day last weekend trying to get apcupsd to talk to my UPS (I get "on battery" and "power restored" messages, but I can't view status and I haven't yet gotten around to testing auto shutdown).  I spend probably almost half an hour researching and trying <i>each step</i> because a lot of the tutorials or guides are outdated or just don't work.  I want to put ubuntu on my new laptop, but given the above trouble and the PITA it's been trying to set Win 7 up the way I want it, I might just pass.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to be too mean , but what 's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC ? Getting it installed and running was fairly easy .
Trying to do anything else besides browse the internet or use pre-installed programs was ( and still is ) a bitch .
On the fileserver I set up at home , it took me two full weekends just to get the samba shares working right and with what I hope are the proper permissions and group settings , and I spent a full day last weekend trying to get apcupsd to talk to my UPS ( I get " on battery " and " power restored " messages , but I ca n't view status and I have n't yet gotten around to testing auto shutdown ) .
I spend probably almost half an hour researching and trying each step because a lot of the tutorials or guides are outdated or just do n't work .
I want to put ubuntu on my new laptop , but given the above trouble and the PITA it 's been trying to set Win 7 up the way I want it , I might just pass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?Getting it installed and running was fairly easy.
Trying to do anything else besides browse the internet or use pre-installed programs was (and still is) a bitch.
On the fileserver I set up at home, it took me two full weekends just to get the samba shares working right and with what I hope are the proper permissions and group settings, and I spent a full day last weekend trying to get apcupsd to talk to my UPS (I get "on battery" and "power restored" messages, but I can't view status and I haven't yet gotten around to testing auto shutdown).
I spend probably almost half an hour researching and trying each step because a lot of the tutorials or guides are outdated or just don't work.
I want to put ubuntu on my new laptop, but given the above trouble and the PITA it's been trying to set Win 7 up the way I want it, I might just pass.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214606</id>
	<title>the only option</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266672660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>is debian</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is debian</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is debian</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211772</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>BarryNorton</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs" - so you struggled and you want to foist it on others?

Leave them using Windows. Hell, be nice and buy them Windows 7!

Either that or get them a pretty looking distro (Ubuntu) and some unsupported hardware and have them build a driver from source, or better still recompile a kernel, then offer 'stick with this or go back to Windows'.

Tl:dr: Ubuntu... for two weeks until they get pissed off and hate you for it</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs " - so you struggled and you want to foist it on others ?
Leave them using Windows .
Hell , be nice and buy them Windows 7 !
Either that or get them a pretty looking distro ( Ubuntu ) and some unsupported hardware and have them build a driver from source , or better still recompile a kernel , then offer 'stick with this or go back to Windows' .
Tl : dr : Ubuntu... for two weeks until they get pissed off and hate you for it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs" - so you struggled and you want to foist it on others?
Leave them using Windows.
Hell, be nice and buy them Windows 7!
Either that or get them a pretty looking distro (Ubuntu) and some unsupported hardware and have them build a driver from source, or better still recompile a kernel, then offer 'stick with this or go back to Windows'.
Tl:dr: Ubuntu... for two weeks until they get pissed off and hate you for it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218580</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>perchslayer</author>
	<datestamp>1266769260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I may, please let me weigh in with another kind of reaction. First, I had the same question you posed, only it was for me and not somebody else. My wife and I share a PC so I couldn't touch that, but I was ready to wipe Bill of my Dell D620 and get into a new hobby and learning curve, right. But I wanted to start out with something for folks like me, rather than say, Slackware, right?

First, let me speak to the idea of "Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?" As a n00b with some recent experience, I am compelled to speak frankly to this:
1) Getting Linux installed on a PC is definitely easier than a laptop to be sure.
2) Many folks take it as a given (perhaps even Mr. Hudson, I don't know) that one is installing Linux on a PC or laptop that has a reasonable connection to the web (e.g. something other than dial-up). Meanwhile, the fact is that any sort of fast(er) connection than dial-up is simply not available to some of us. Let me put that in perspective. I live in the city limits of Auburn, CA at 112 Porter Lane and commute to the capitol of California, Sacramento, every day. 30 miles. Where I live there is nothing available, period. And I am not alone. This is true even though the Obama administration and the Schwarzeniggar administration go on and on about broadband and so forth. Now, I have found that most Linux types assume that the first thing you do when you install and get logged in is connect and update your packages, right? Well, guess what? Not gonna happen. Not with dial-up, my friend!
3) Though the "in-crowd" may understand that you need to create a distro from a torrent, because the official download is likely to get corrupted and won't load properly when you create the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.iso on the DVD from the download, this isn't obviously publicized. This, regardless, of PC or laptop installation.
4) There are some "notorious" WiFi devices that "have issues" and even continue to stump the "experts"; my Broadcom 4311 comes to mind.....

That being said, my laptop is now amongst you guys. And it even happened with the native Broadcom 4311, despite what a kajillion blogs and "support" sites contend. The big trick was getting a cat5 cable connected to it that had some fresh informational juice to pump into it. That was the hardest part to be sure. I mean, there is no place to "plug in" at Starbucks, right?

Anyway, back to the original question. After doing some research on the web, I found that Ubuntu/Gnome and Mandriva/KDE appeared to be two strong candidates. This, with all the talk and strong community "support". I had decided to go with Mandriva because I thought the graphics looked cooler, there was not so much "cult hype" as with Ubuntu, they were based in Paris/Rio, which seems cool, and I was still pissed at some misleading advice offered by "experts" on their site.

Well, it turns out I wound up going with Ubuntu anyway because there is a guy I found nearby me who is a real Linux guru and a nice guy and uses Ubuntu [ www.computer-shoppe.net ] so I figured I would just get what he has to make my configuration questions all that much easier.

Bottom Line from where I sit/stand:
1) Biggest factor for which I chose was about where I could get the best *real* support.
2) You are kidding yourself if you think that any flavor of Linux is ready for the Windows consuming public. It is still either a hobby or a hands-on *supported* tool.
3) Before you count it out, go take a look at the new KDE Mandriva ----cool!
4) Isn't OpenSUSE Novell? Isn't that sort of anti the whole point of being a hobby rebel?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I may , please let me weigh in with another kind of reaction .
First , I had the same question you posed , only it was for me and not somebody else .
My wife and I share a PC so I could n't touch that , but I was ready to wipe Bill of my Dell D620 and get into a new hobby and learning curve , right .
But I wanted to start out with something for folks like me , rather than say , Slackware , right ?
First , let me speak to the idea of " Not to be too mean , but what 's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC ?
" As a n00b with some recent experience , I am compelled to speak frankly to this : 1 ) Getting Linux installed on a PC is definitely easier than a laptop to be sure .
2 ) Many folks take it as a given ( perhaps even Mr. Hudson , I do n't know ) that one is installing Linux on a PC or laptop that has a reasonable connection to the web ( e.g .
something other than dial-up ) .
Meanwhile , the fact is that any sort of fast ( er ) connection than dial-up is simply not available to some of us .
Let me put that in perspective .
I live in the city limits of Auburn , CA at 112 Porter Lane and commute to the capitol of California , Sacramento , every day .
30 miles .
Where I live there is nothing available , period .
And I am not alone .
This is true even though the Obama administration and the Schwarzeniggar administration go on and on about broadband and so forth .
Now , I have found that most Linux types assume that the first thing you do when you install and get logged in is connect and update your packages , right ?
Well , guess what ?
Not gon na happen .
Not with dial-up , my friend !
3 ) Though the " in-crowd " may understand that you need to create a distro from a torrent , because the official download is likely to get corrupted and wo n't load properly when you create the .iso on the DVD from the download , this is n't obviously publicized .
This , regardless , of PC or laptop installation .
4 ) There are some " notorious " WiFi devices that " have issues " and even continue to stump the " experts " ; my Broadcom 4311 comes to mind.... . That being said , my laptop is now amongst you guys .
And it even happened with the native Broadcom 4311 , despite what a kajillion blogs and " support " sites contend .
The big trick was getting a cat5 cable connected to it that had some fresh informational juice to pump into it .
That was the hardest part to be sure .
I mean , there is no place to " plug in " at Starbucks , right ?
Anyway , back to the original question .
After doing some research on the web , I found that Ubuntu/Gnome and Mandriva/KDE appeared to be two strong candidates .
This , with all the talk and strong community " support " .
I had decided to go with Mandriva because I thought the graphics looked cooler , there was not so much " cult hype " as with Ubuntu , they were based in Paris/Rio , which seems cool , and I was still pissed at some misleading advice offered by " experts " on their site .
Well , it turns out I wound up going with Ubuntu anyway because there is a guy I found nearby me who is a real Linux guru and a nice guy and uses Ubuntu [ www.computer-shoppe.net ] so I figured I would just get what he has to make my configuration questions all that much easier .
Bottom Line from where I sit/stand : 1 ) Biggest factor for which I chose was about where I could get the best * real * support .
2 ) You are kidding yourself if you think that any flavor of Linux is ready for the Windows consuming public .
It is still either a hobby or a hands-on * supported * tool .
3 ) Before you count it out , go take a look at the new KDE Mandriva ----cool !
4 ) Is n't OpenSUSE Novell ?
Is n't that sort of anti the whole point of being a hobby rebel ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I may, please let me weigh in with another kind of reaction.
First, I had the same question you posed, only it was for me and not somebody else.
My wife and I share a PC so I couldn't touch that, but I was ready to wipe Bill of my Dell D620 and get into a new hobby and learning curve, right.
But I wanted to start out with something for folks like me, rather than say, Slackware, right?
First, let me speak to the idea of "Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?
" As a n00b with some recent experience, I am compelled to speak frankly to this:
1) Getting Linux installed on a PC is definitely easier than a laptop to be sure.
2) Many folks take it as a given (perhaps even Mr. Hudson, I don't know) that one is installing Linux on a PC or laptop that has a reasonable connection to the web (e.g.
something other than dial-up).
Meanwhile, the fact is that any sort of fast(er) connection than dial-up is simply not available to some of us.
Let me put that in perspective.
I live in the city limits of Auburn, CA at 112 Porter Lane and commute to the capitol of California, Sacramento, every day.
30 miles.
Where I live there is nothing available, period.
And I am not alone.
This is true even though the Obama administration and the Schwarzeniggar administration go on and on about broadband and so forth.
Now, I have found that most Linux types assume that the first thing you do when you install and get logged in is connect and update your packages, right?
Well, guess what?
Not gonna happen.
Not with dial-up, my friend!
3) Though the "in-crowd" may understand that you need to create a distro from a torrent, because the official download is likely to get corrupted and won't load properly when you create the .iso on the DVD from the download, this isn't obviously publicized.
This, regardless, of PC or laptop installation.
4) There are some "notorious" WiFi devices that "have issues" and even continue to stump the "experts"; my Broadcom 4311 comes to mind.....

That being said, my laptop is now amongst you guys.
And it even happened with the native Broadcom 4311, despite what a kajillion blogs and "support" sites contend.
The big trick was getting a cat5 cable connected to it that had some fresh informational juice to pump into it.
That was the hardest part to be sure.
I mean, there is no place to "plug in" at Starbucks, right?
Anyway, back to the original question.
After doing some research on the web, I found that Ubuntu/Gnome and Mandriva/KDE appeared to be two strong candidates.
This, with all the talk and strong community "support".
I had decided to go with Mandriva because I thought the graphics looked cooler, there was not so much "cult hype" as with Ubuntu, they were based in Paris/Rio, which seems cool, and I was still pissed at some misleading advice offered by "experts" on their site.
Well, it turns out I wound up going with Ubuntu anyway because there is a guy I found nearby me who is a real Linux guru and a nice guy and uses Ubuntu [ www.computer-shoppe.net ] so I figured I would just get what he has to make my configuration questions all that much easier.
Bottom Line from where I sit/stand:
1) Biggest factor for which I chose was about where I could get the best *real* support.
2) You are kidding yourself if you think that any flavor of Linux is ready for the Windows consuming public.
It is still either a hobby or a hands-on *supported* tool.
3) Before you count it out, go take a look at the new KDE Mandriva ----cool!
4) Isn't OpenSUSE Novell?
Isn't that sort of anti the whole point of being a hobby rebel?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</id>
	<title>My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>CBung</author>
	<datestamp>1266695160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I transitioned a friend to ubuntu recently, he was sick and tired of getting viruses and the like. He is extremely satisfied so far.

He recently asked me if iTunes works for linux, because his girlfriend has an ipod. She likes to use the itunes store, so the usual amarok/rhythmbox solution doesnt work.

Unfortunately if you look at the wine application page for iTunes the rating is trash. Setting him up with virtualbox is just too extreme, he does not have a windows cd around.

The biggest thing is check what software they use regularly, and make sure it works first in wine or has a decent alternative. Otherwise they will just be disappointed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I transitioned a friend to ubuntu recently , he was sick and tired of getting viruses and the like .
He is extremely satisfied so far .
He recently asked me if iTunes works for linux , because his girlfriend has an ipod .
She likes to use the itunes store , so the usual amarok/rhythmbox solution doesnt work .
Unfortunately if you look at the wine application page for iTunes the rating is trash .
Setting him up with virtualbox is just too extreme , he does not have a windows cd around .
The biggest thing is check what software they use regularly , and make sure it works first in wine or has a decent alternative .
Otherwise they will just be disappointed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I transitioned a friend to ubuntu recently, he was sick and tired of getting viruses and the like.
He is extremely satisfied so far.
He recently asked me if iTunes works for linux, because his girlfriend has an ipod.
She likes to use the itunes store, so the usual amarok/rhythmbox solution doesnt work.
Unfortunately if you look at the wine application page for iTunes the rating is trash.
Setting him up with virtualbox is just too extreme, he does not have a windows cd around.
The biggest thing is check what software they use regularly, and make sure it works first in wine or has a decent alternative.
Otherwise they will just be disappointed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211942</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266696660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. I never recommend anyone switch operating system any more. I have found that if I recommend some piece of software, the first time it breaks, I get the blame. And we all know, ALL software breaks at some point. So now I just let them figure it out for themselves. I have actually had a few people recommend various Linux distros to me. They look really disappointed when I tell them I've been using it for 15 years, and the only time I use Windows is when I'm fixing it for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
I never recommend anyone switch operating system any more .
I have found that if I recommend some piece of software , the first time it breaks , I get the blame .
And we all know , ALL software breaks at some point .
So now I just let them figure it out for themselves .
I have actually had a few people recommend various Linux distros to me .
They look really disappointed when I tell them I 've been using it for 15 years , and the only time I use Windows is when I 'm fixing it for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
I never recommend anyone switch operating system any more.
I have found that if I recommend some piece of software, the first time it breaks, I get the blame.
And we all know, ALL software breaks at some point.
So now I just let them figure it out for themselves.
I have actually had a few people recommend various Linux distros to me.
They look really disappointed when I tell them I've been using it for 15 years, and the only time I use Windows is when I'm fixing it for them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219816</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>pnutjam</author>
	<datestamp>1266777720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've used both and pretty much settled on OpenSUSE, especially for desktop.  It works with dual screens and you can undock your laptop and reconnect a projector or external screen.  Try to get that working with Ubuntu or Mint.
<br> <br>
The 1-click install on the OpenSUSE website is the icing on the YAST cake.  It's really a great distribution and supports more hardware out of the box then any of the other distributions.  Especially wireless.
<br> <br>The only time I use Ubuntu is for servers where I need to install something that is not packaged for OpenSUSE and I can't get to install manually.  Almost everything is packaged for Debian, but OpenSUSE is catching up and working on this problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used both and pretty much settled on OpenSUSE , especially for desktop .
It works with dual screens and you can undock your laptop and reconnect a projector or external screen .
Try to get that working with Ubuntu or Mint .
The 1-click install on the OpenSUSE website is the icing on the YAST cake .
It 's really a great distribution and supports more hardware out of the box then any of the other distributions .
Especially wireless .
The only time I use Ubuntu is for servers where I need to install something that is not packaged for OpenSUSE and I ca n't get to install manually .
Almost everything is packaged for Debian , but OpenSUSE is catching up and working on this problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used both and pretty much settled on OpenSUSE, especially for desktop.
It works with dual screens and you can undock your laptop and reconnect a projector or external screen.
Try to get that working with Ubuntu or Mint.
The 1-click install on the OpenSUSE website is the icing on the YAST cake.
It's really a great distribution and supports more hardware out of the box then any of the other distributions.
Especially wireless.
The only time I use Ubuntu is for servers where I need to install something that is not packaged for OpenSUSE and I can't get to install manually.
Almost everything is packaged for Debian, but OpenSUSE is catching up and working on this problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211812</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>kainino</author>
	<datestamp>1266695940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I were helping a clueless computer user, Linux is the first thing I would think of. Why? Safety. Security.<br><br>These are the people that are most likely to fall for Trojans, etc. Sure, things like phishing is just as much of a threat on any OS, but why leave more gaping holes than necessary?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I were helping a clueless computer user , Linux is the first thing I would think of .
Why ? Safety .
Security.These are the people that are most likely to fall for Trojans , etc .
Sure , things like phishing is just as much of a threat on any OS , but why leave more gaping holes than necessary ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I were helping a clueless computer user, Linux is the first thing I would think of.
Why? Safety.
Security.These are the people that are most likely to fall for Trojans, etc.
Sure, things like phishing is just as much of a threat on any OS, but why leave more gaping holes than necessary?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212228</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>motang</author>
	<datestamp>1266698460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I say go with Ubuntu 9.10, it has been very good and stable for me (the best release yet 9.04 was the worst for me).  You can set it up the way you want it with only one bar at the bottom, and have the trash icon and stuff like the way you want. Here is one of my setup (http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/695/notebookjuly09.png).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say go with Ubuntu 9.10 , it has been very good and stable for me ( the best release yet 9.04 was the worst for me ) .
You can set it up the way you want it with only one bar at the bottom , and have the trash icon and stuff like the way you want .
Here is one of my setup ( http : //img706.imageshack.us/img706/695/notebookjuly09.png ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say go with Ubuntu 9.10, it has been very good and stable for me (the best release yet 9.04 was the worst for me).
You can set it up the way you want it with only one bar at the bottom, and have the trash icon and stuff like the way you want.
Here is one of my setup (http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/695/notebookjuly09.png).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211600</id>
	<title>Ubuntu or Xubuntu</title>
	<author>emanem</author>
	<datestamp>1266694980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As per subject.<br>
Cheers,</htmltext>
<tokenext>As per subject .
Cheers,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As per subject.
Cheers,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216342</id>
	<title>GTkpod rocks for ipod</title>
	<author>viyyer</author>
	<datestamp>1266690000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>interesting you say that. I I remembered using gtkpod for copy audio file to play on my laptop . the process was so simple that the owner of the ipod wanted ubuntu and gtkpod on his computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>interesting you say that .
I I remembered using gtkpod for copy audio file to play on my laptop .
the process was so simple that the owner of the ipod wanted ubuntu and gtkpod on his computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>interesting you say that.
I I remembered using gtkpod for copy audio file to play on my laptop .
the process was so simple that the owner of the ipod wanted ubuntu and gtkpod on his computer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211404</id>
	<title>Why try to be Windows?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it looks 95\% like Windows, that last 5\% is going to drive them crazy. It'd be like having a car that looks just like an ordinary car, but turning on the heater puts it into reverse. Why not just help them through the culture shock, so they aren't calling you complaining that they can't run $LATEST\_WINDOWS\_GAME, even though they "have Windows".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it looks 95 \ % like Windows , that last 5 \ % is going to drive them crazy .
It 'd be like having a car that looks just like an ordinary car , but turning on the heater puts it into reverse .
Why not just help them through the culture shock , so they are n't calling you complaining that they ca n't run $ LATEST \ _WINDOWS \ _GAME , even though they " have Windows " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it looks 95\% like Windows, that last 5\% is going to drive them crazy.
It'd be like having a car that looks just like an ordinary car, but turning on the heater puts it into reverse.
Why not just help them through the culture shock, so they aren't calling you complaining that they can't run $LATEST\_WINDOWS\_GAME, even though they "have Windows".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31228092</id>
	<title>VLC??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266845280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Need VLC? No... Just no...</p><p>Give them mplayer instead, with SMPlayer for the gui.</p><p>As for the distro, if you want it to be similar to windows in layout, then a KDE based disto is probably the best choice.  Also look at what sort of repository it has as that will make things a lot easier for them to install software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Need VLC ?
No... Just no...Give them mplayer instead , with SMPlayer for the gui.As for the distro , if you want it to be similar to windows in layout , then a KDE based disto is probably the best choice .
Also look at what sort of repository it has as that will make things a lot easier for them to install software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Need VLC?
No... Just no...Give them mplayer instead, with SMPlayer for the gui.As for the distro, if you want it to be similar to windows in layout, then a KDE based disto is probably the best choice.
Also look at what sort of repository it has as that will make things a lot easier for them to install software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</id>
	<title>Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anarke\_Incarnate</author>
	<datestamp>1266693900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>11.2 is very polished and nice and YaST makes it easy to get things done if you are unfamiliar with how Linux configuration files work or are located.  It can install software almost as easily as Ubuntu, but in my opinion, does more things "right" than Ubuntu does.  It has almost everything you would need and good overall integration.

If you install it, I recommend you do it via the install DVD rather than the live CD.</htmltext>
<tokenext>11.2 is very polished and nice and YaST makes it easy to get things done if you are unfamiliar with how Linux configuration files work or are located .
It can install software almost as easily as Ubuntu , but in my opinion , does more things " right " than Ubuntu does .
It has almost everything you would need and good overall integration .
If you install it , I recommend you do it via the install DVD rather than the live CD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>11.2 is very polished and nice and YaST makes it easy to get things done if you are unfamiliar with how Linux configuration files work or are located.
It can install software almost as easily as Ubuntu, but in my opinion, does more things "right" than Ubuntu does.
It has almost everything you would need and good overall integration.
If you install it, I recommend you do it via the install DVD rather than the live CD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211764</id>
	<title>Doesn't matter</title>
	<author>sensei moreh</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Mint, and probably a whole host of others (that I haven't used recently, if at all) with either a GNOME or KDE desktop can easily be configured to look enough like Windows to make the look-and-feel part of the transition relatively painless. Come to think of it, I'd probably opt for a distro with long-term support, say CentOS or an Ubuntu LTS release; something that didn't need constant updating (other than security fixes).

As has been pointed out previously, just be sure they're not going to run into any serious gotchas. For example, I do some printing of web coupons, and there are a number of sites that use a coupon printer that's Windows only.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fedora , Ubuntu , Mandriva , Mint , and probably a whole host of others ( that I have n't used recently , if at all ) with either a GNOME or KDE desktop can easily be configured to look enough like Windows to make the look-and-feel part of the transition relatively painless .
Come to think of it , I 'd probably opt for a distro with long-term support , say CentOS or an Ubuntu LTS release ; something that did n't need constant updating ( other than security fixes ) .
As has been pointed out previously , just be sure they 're not going to run into any serious gotchas .
For example , I do some printing of web coupons , and there are a number of sites that use a coupon printer that 's Windows only .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Mint, and probably a whole host of others (that I haven't used recently, if at all) with either a GNOME or KDE desktop can easily be configured to look enough like Windows to make the look-and-feel part of the transition relatively painless.
Come to think of it, I'd probably opt for a distro with long-term support, say CentOS or an Ubuntu LTS release; something that didn't need constant updating (other than security fixes).
As has been pointed out previously, just be sure they're not going to run into any serious gotchas.
For example, I do some printing of web coupons, and there are a number of sites that use a coupon printer that's Windows only.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216572</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266693780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linux Mint. I successfully converted some friends with it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;o)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux Mint .
I successfully converted some friends with it ; o )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux Mint.
I successfully converted some friends with it ;o)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216376</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266690300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Puppy is awesome with old hardware.  My parents have used it successfully as well... the most difficult part is wireless connections, but the wizard has gotten better lately.  It's still a little confusing if you don'mt know what you're doing (e.g., what's DHCP, etc).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Puppy is awesome with old hardware .
My parents have used it successfully as well... the most difficult part is wireless connections , but the wizard has gotten better lately .
It 's still a little confusing if you don'mt know what you 're doing ( e.g. , what 's DHCP , etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Puppy is awesome with old hardware.
My parents have used it successfully as well... the most difficult part is wireless connections, but the wizard has gotten better lately.
It's still a little confusing if you don'mt know what you're doing (e.g., what's DHCP, etc).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212874</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212128</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266697920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give your friend Songbird.  The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes, and it supports iPod syncing out of the box.  It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores (7digital, Amazon MP3, etc) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store, plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give your friend Songbird .
The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes , and it supports iPod syncing out of the box .
It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores ( 7digital , Amazon MP3 , etc ) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store , plus the added bonus of DRM-free music .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give your friend Songbird.
The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes, and it supports iPod syncing out of the box.
It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores (7digital, Amazon MP3, etc) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store, plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31224118</id>
	<title>Re:Mandriva Linux</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1266760980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I also site this article in Linux magazine: <a href="http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html" title="linux-mag.com">http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html</a> [linux-mag.com]</p></div> </blockquote><p>"Site" is a noun.  It means a physical location.  When verbed it refers to the act of placing something in a site.
</p><p>The word which refers to quoting a source or mentioning something in support of your statement is to "cite".  See also the word "citation", which you may have heard once or twice.
</p><p>If you're not familiar with the difference, please look them up as a favour to the Ghost of the English Language.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I also site this article in Linux magazine : http : //www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html [ linux-mag.com ] " Site " is a noun .
It means a physical location .
When verbed it refers to the act of placing something in a site .
The word which refers to quoting a source or mentioning something in support of your statement is to " cite " .
See also the word " citation " , which you may have heard once or twice .
If you 're not familiar with the difference , please look them up as a favour to the Ghost of the English Language .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also site this article in Linux magazine: http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7643/1.html [linux-mag.com] "Site" is a noun.
It means a physical location.
When verbed it refers to the act of placing something in a site.
The word which refers to quoting a source or mentioning something in support of your statement is to "cite".
See also the word "citation", which you may have heard once or twice.
If you're not familiar with the difference, please look them up as a favour to the Ghost of the English Language.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215198</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1266678000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been using Linux at home for 10 years, Ubuntu since it came out.  My current computer is pushing 8 years old.  I'm thinking of getting a Mac this summer to get Unixy goodness and avoid just this kind of problem.  I'm tired of being shut out of support for things or getting cool new stuff last.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been using Linux at home for 10 years , Ubuntu since it came out .
My current computer is pushing 8 years old .
I 'm thinking of getting a Mac this summer to get Unixy goodness and avoid just this kind of problem .
I 'm tired of being shut out of support for things or getting cool new stuff last .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been using Linux at home for 10 years, Ubuntu since it came out.
My current computer is pushing 8 years old.
I'm thinking of getting a Mac this summer to get Unixy goodness and avoid just this kind of problem.
I'm tired of being shut out of support for things or getting cool new stuff last.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217856</id>
	<title>NetBSD</title>
	<author>Danzigism</author>
	<datestamp>1266761760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>give them FreeBSD and the handbook and tell them to actually do something instead of giving in to the needs of all these picky and pretentious computer users nowadays.</htmltext>
<tokenext>give them FreeBSD and the handbook and tell them to actually do something instead of giving in to the needs of all these picky and pretentious computer users nowadays .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>give them FreeBSD and the handbook and tell them to actually do something instead of giving in to the needs of all these picky and pretentious computer users nowadays.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216732</id>
	<title>Re:Linux terrorist</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1266782700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If someone like that asks you for a certain software ("I need Photoshop, cause my cousin's neighbour's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures"), you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent</i> </p><p>If there is a FOSS equivalent.</p><p>You have to understand your users very well if you plan on making choices for them and installing apps by remote control.</p><p>The clueless user who "spends 99\% of the time in MSN, Skype or on facebook, and who watches vids on youtube" is a geek stereotype. The user can surprise you.</p><p>Your family doctor doesn't take family members as patients. It is stressful and corrupting.</p><p>You motives are suspect. It is hard to be objective. It is even more difficult for the family member to speak up, to fight back - to resist being taken in a direction he does not want to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone like that asks you for a certain software ( " I need Photoshop , cause my cousin 's neighbour 's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures " ) , you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent If there is a FOSS equivalent.You have to understand your users very well if you plan on making choices for them and installing apps by remote control.The clueless user who " spends 99 \ % of the time in MSN , Skype or on facebook , and who watches vids on youtube " is a geek stereotype .
The user can surprise you.Your family doctor does n't take family members as patients .
It is stressful and corrupting.You motives are suspect .
It is hard to be objective .
It is even more difficult for the family member to speak up , to fight back - to resist being taken in a direction he does not want to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone like that asks you for a certain software ("I need Photoshop, cause my cousin's neighbour's Aunt said it was great to resize pictures"), you can easily log in via ssh and install the foss equivalent If there is a FOSS equivalent.You have to understand your users very well if you plan on making choices for them and installing apps by remote control.The clueless user who "spends 99\% of the time in MSN, Skype or on facebook, and who watches vids on youtube" is a geek stereotype.
The user can surprise you.Your family doctor doesn't take family members as patients.
It is stressful and corrupting.You motives are suspect.
It is hard to be objective.
It is even more difficult for the family member to speak up, to fight back - to resist being taken in a direction he does not want to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212484</id>
	<title>Re:If you think it has to look like XP, you're wro</title>
	<author>bmo</author>
	<datestamp>1266656640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Don't go with KDE3.5</i></p><p>3.5 isn't even available for current versions of Ubuntu.  You have to go all the way to 8.04 to find it (not that there's anything wrong with 8.04)</p><p>Indeed.  Go with KDE 4.4.  4.4 is nearly god-tier.  It's available from the kubuntu ppa.</p><p>--<br>BMO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't go with KDE3.53.5 is n't even available for current versions of Ubuntu .
You have to go all the way to 8.04 to find it ( not that there 's anything wrong with 8.04 ) Indeed .
Go with KDE 4.4 .
4.4 is nearly god-tier .
It 's available from the kubuntu ppa.--BMO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't go with KDE3.53.5 isn't even available for current versions of Ubuntu.
You have to go all the way to 8.04 to find it (not that there's anything wrong with 8.04)Indeed.
Go with KDE 4.4.
4.4 is nearly god-tier.
It's available from the kubuntu ppa.--BMO</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211472</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211472</id>
	<title>If you think it has to look like XP, you're wrong.</title>
	<author>cupantae</author>
	<datestamp>1266694380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't go with KDE3.5 just for that reason or anything stupid like that. Go for Gnome no matter what. Not because it's better per se, but because the distros you want to use will most likely have it as the default, and that is <b>huge</b>.</p><p>Which one do you go for? Ubuntu. Why? It's the biggest, easiest to find support for, and it works really well. As long as you do some setup for them, they will have no problems at all with it. Install the necessary software, run the first updates, change the panels to the way windows has it, if you want. That will take about 5 minutes as opposed to about a week for them to get used to the double bars. It really doesn't matter as much as you might think.</p><p>My dad suggested I try "my system" on the computer in my parents' room after XP got yet another virus. So I installed Ubuntu with Gnome (instead of my set up of Arch Linux with Xfce). They have had no problems, and they certainly don't know the first thing about computers. They are impressed by the speed, and like the idea of not fearing viruses. (That's not to say that security can ever be ignored on any system, btw.)</p><p>Just install software and maybe make some cosmetic changes, but don't try any fancy stuff. It works without fiddling as long as you don't fiddle with it in the first place. Good luck with it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't go with KDE3.5 just for that reason or anything stupid like that .
Go for Gnome no matter what .
Not because it 's better per se , but because the distros you want to use will most likely have it as the default , and that is huge.Which one do you go for ?
Ubuntu. Why ?
It 's the biggest , easiest to find support for , and it works really well .
As long as you do some setup for them , they will have no problems at all with it .
Install the necessary software , run the first updates , change the panels to the way windows has it , if you want .
That will take about 5 minutes as opposed to about a week for them to get used to the double bars .
It really does n't matter as much as you might think.My dad suggested I try " my system " on the computer in my parents ' room after XP got yet another virus .
So I installed Ubuntu with Gnome ( instead of my set up of Arch Linux with Xfce ) .
They have had no problems , and they certainly do n't know the first thing about computers .
They are impressed by the speed , and like the idea of not fearing viruses .
( That 's not to say that security can ever be ignored on any system , btw .
) Just install software and maybe make some cosmetic changes , but do n't try any fancy stuff .
It works without fiddling as long as you do n't fiddle with it in the first place .
Good luck with it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't go with KDE3.5 just for that reason or anything stupid like that.
Go for Gnome no matter what.
Not because it's better per se, but because the distros you want to use will most likely have it as the default, and that is huge.Which one do you go for?
Ubuntu. Why?
It's the biggest, easiest to find support for, and it works really well.
As long as you do some setup for them, they will have no problems at all with it.
Install the necessary software, run the first updates, change the panels to the way windows has it, if you want.
That will take about 5 minutes as opposed to about a week for them to get used to the double bars.
It really doesn't matter as much as you might think.My dad suggested I try "my system" on the computer in my parents' room after XP got yet another virus.
So I installed Ubuntu with Gnome (instead of my set up of Arch Linux with Xfce).
They have had no problems, and they certainly don't know the first thing about computers.
They are impressed by the speed, and like the idea of not fearing viruses.
(That's not to say that security can ever be ignored on any system, btw.
)Just install software and maybe make some cosmetic changes, but don't try any fancy stuff.
It works without fiddling as long as you don't fiddle with it in the first place.
Good luck with it!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212202</id>
	<title>If It Works Don't Fix It</title>
	<author>oakwine</author>
	<datestamp>1266698220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Their applications are very limited. Leave them with XP since it is working for them.

You should only suggest Linux as an alternative if they are considering a netbook. But just suggest it, let them decide.

Nothing and nobody is served by becoming an evangelist for Linux. It is just another operating system, nothing more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Their applications are very limited .
Leave them with XP since it is working for them .
You should only suggest Linux as an alternative if they are considering a netbook .
But just suggest it , let them decide .
Nothing and nobody is served by becoming an evangelist for Linux .
It is just another operating system , nothing more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their applications are very limited.
Leave them with XP since it is working for them.
You should only suggest Linux as an alternative if they are considering a netbook.
But just suggest it, let them decide.
Nothing and nobody is served by becoming an evangelist for Linux.
It is just another operating system, nothing more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212790</id>
	<title>Any one of them</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1266658680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It will not matter to them. Any distribution will be OK. Perhaps better focus on GNOME or KDE. Next see what you are comfortable with. Is that RPM or DEB based?</p><p>As you will be the maintainer, see that auto-update is configured.</p><p>Now if you are going to do a lot of installs and you want to configure them in a specific way with some software installed and other software removed, take a look at <a href="http://susestudio.com./" title="susestudio.com.">http://susestudio.com./</a> [susestudio.com.] You can easily make your own distribution and even already add things like MPlayer and codecs so that they will have a fully operational system. If you have the rights to use and/or distribute e.g. codecs is another question. No idea about YOUR legal situation.</p><p>SUSE studio lets you test it and also build live CD, HD images and the like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It will not matter to them .
Any distribution will be OK. Perhaps better focus on GNOME or KDE .
Next see what you are comfortable with .
Is that RPM or DEB based ? As you will be the maintainer , see that auto-update is configured.Now if you are going to do a lot of installs and you want to configure them in a specific way with some software installed and other software removed , take a look at http : //susestudio.com./ [ susestudio.com .
] You can easily make your own distribution and even already add things like MPlayer and codecs so that they will have a fully operational system .
If you have the rights to use and/or distribute e.g .
codecs is another question .
No idea about YOUR legal situation.SUSE studio lets you test it and also build live CD , HD images and the like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It will not matter to them.
Any distribution will be OK. Perhaps better focus on GNOME or KDE.
Next see what you are comfortable with.
Is that RPM or DEB based?As you will be the maintainer, see that auto-update is configured.Now if you are going to do a lot of installs and you want to configure them in a specific way with some software installed and other software removed, take a look at http://susestudio.com./ [susestudio.com.
] You can easily make your own distribution and even already add things like MPlayer and codecs so that they will have a fully operational system.
If you have the rights to use and/or distribute e.g.
codecs is another question.
No idea about YOUR legal situation.SUSE studio lets you test it and also build live CD, HD images and the like.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211676</id>
	<title>You have a couple of options.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since your needs are pretty simple, there are a few options that you can take:</p><ol><li> <b>Ubuntu.</b> This is the rightfully obligatory distribution for home and small business users. Despite the politics going on around the GNOME community, it is a very simple window manager that gives most users a great balance between usability and productivity. However, KDE gives you many more options, especially if you are going to be doing the installation for them, but at the extra cost of potentially being a bit behind. (Kubuntu usually falls behind standard Ubuntu, since it's not officially supported by Canonical.) The great thing about Ubuntu is that it keeps the versatility of Debian mostly intact (though it's not as free, philosophically speaking). You can download the standard ISO and get all of the good features and setup that Ubuntu is known for (well...maybe if you don't count 9.10), or you can download the mini distribution which is practically clean slate and lets you install what you want.<p>It's really your easiest option.</p></li><li> <b>Debian.</b> If your friend's computers are older or limited on memory, you may want to consider just installing Debian straight and customizing as you need to. Debian comes clean state by default and is quite friendly on resources. For this scenario, KDE is out of the question and you will need to be careful with GNOME; it can take up quite a lot of resources.</li></ol><p>Though I'm sure you're aware, I'll close this by warning you of what you might be getting yourself into in doing this. As you know, Linux for the desktop has improved significantly over the years, but it is still not as polished as Windows or OS X. This is important, as a lot of maintenance <b>must</b> be done through command line and your users will probably not put up with that for anything even remotely non-trivial. You will probably also have to be responsible for finding alternative software your friends might want in the long run since we live in a Windows/Mac world; be prepared to improvise when software they want is not available. You will also want to consider installing WINE on whichever distribution you choose, as OpenOffice will probably not be friendly with many PPT presentations. (On a similar note, be prepared to either install Office outright and deal with brokenness that might ensue, or be prepared to ensure that all of your friend's needs are met through OpenOffice.)</p><p>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since your needs are pretty simple , there are a few options that you can take : Ubuntu .
This is the rightfully obligatory distribution for home and small business users .
Despite the politics going on around the GNOME community , it is a very simple window manager that gives most users a great balance between usability and productivity .
However , KDE gives you many more options , especially if you are going to be doing the installation for them , but at the extra cost of potentially being a bit behind .
( Kubuntu usually falls behind standard Ubuntu , since it 's not officially supported by Canonical .
) The great thing about Ubuntu is that it keeps the versatility of Debian mostly intact ( though it 's not as free , philosophically speaking ) .
You can download the standard ISO and get all of the good features and setup that Ubuntu is known for ( well...maybe if you do n't count 9.10 ) , or you can download the mini distribution which is practically clean slate and lets you install what you want.It 's really your easiest option .
Debian. If your friend 's computers are older or limited on memory , you may want to consider just installing Debian straight and customizing as you need to .
Debian comes clean state by default and is quite friendly on resources .
For this scenario , KDE is out of the question and you will need to be careful with GNOME ; it can take up quite a lot of resources.Though I 'm sure you 're aware , I 'll close this by warning you of what you might be getting yourself into in doing this .
As you know , Linux for the desktop has improved significantly over the years , but it is still not as polished as Windows or OS X. This is important , as a lot of maintenance must be done through command line and your users will probably not put up with that for anything even remotely non-trivial .
You will probably also have to be responsible for finding alternative software your friends might want in the long run since we live in a Windows/Mac world ; be prepared to improvise when software they want is not available .
You will also want to consider installing WINE on whichever distribution you choose , as OpenOffice will probably not be friendly with many PPT presentations .
( On a similar note , be prepared to either install Office outright and deal with brokenness that might ensue , or be prepared to ensure that all of your friend 's needs are met through OpenOffice .
) Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since your needs are pretty simple, there are a few options that you can take: Ubuntu.
This is the rightfully obligatory distribution for home and small business users.
Despite the politics going on around the GNOME community, it is a very simple window manager that gives most users a great balance between usability and productivity.
However, KDE gives you many more options, especially if you are going to be doing the installation for them, but at the extra cost of potentially being a bit behind.
(Kubuntu usually falls behind standard Ubuntu, since it's not officially supported by Canonical.
) The great thing about Ubuntu is that it keeps the versatility of Debian mostly intact (though it's not as free, philosophically speaking).
You can download the standard ISO and get all of the good features and setup that Ubuntu is known for (well...maybe if you don't count 9.10), or you can download the mini distribution which is practically clean slate and lets you install what you want.It's really your easiest option.
Debian. If your friend's computers are older or limited on memory, you may want to consider just installing Debian straight and customizing as you need to.
Debian comes clean state by default and is quite friendly on resources.
For this scenario, KDE is out of the question and you will need to be careful with GNOME; it can take up quite a lot of resources.Though I'm sure you're aware, I'll close this by warning you of what you might be getting yourself into in doing this.
As you know, Linux for the desktop has improved significantly over the years, but it is still not as polished as Windows or OS X. This is important, as a lot of maintenance must be done through command line and your users will probably not put up with that for anything even remotely non-trivial.
You will probably also have to be responsible for finding alternative software your friends might want in the long run since we live in a Windows/Mac world; be prepared to improvise when software they want is not available.
You will also want to consider installing WINE on whichever distribution you choose, as OpenOffice will probably not be friendly with many PPT presentations.
(On a similar note, be prepared to either install Office outright and deal with brokenness that might ensue, or be prepared to ensure that all of your friend's needs are met through OpenOffice.
)Good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216162</id>
	<title>Mandriva</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266688260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my option, Mandriva is the easies for any Windows user. True older versions has some issues but any newer version work better that any other distro I've tried "out of the box".<br>Installing and managing software is also easy that on any other distro.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my option , Mandriva is the easies for any Windows user .
True older versions has some issues but any newer version work better that any other distro I 've tried " out of the box " .Installing and managing software is also easy that on any other distro .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my option, Mandriva is the easies for any Windows user.
True older versions has some issues but any newer version work better that any other distro I've tried "out of the box".Installing and managing software is also easy that on any other distro.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211864</id>
	<title>PcLinuxOS</title>
	<author>Stumbles</author>
	<datestamp>1266696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.pclinuxonline.com/?PHPSESSID=ea0f3bea1301c2c17d046d3a4d4ffac0" title="pclinuxonline.com">http://www.pclinuxonline.com/?PHPSESSID=ea0f3bea1301c2c17d046d3a4d4ffac0</a> [pclinuxonline.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.pclinuxonline.com/ ? PHPSESSID = ea0f3bea1301c2c17d046d3a4d4ffac0 [ pclinuxonline.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.pclinuxonline.com/?PHPSESSID=ea0f3bea1301c2c17d046d3a4d4ffac0 [pclinuxonline.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31225908</id>
	<title>SuSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266774180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>openSuSE is what they should try.</p><p>Back in the day, Lindows is what got me into Linux hence the name.  (Linspire now thanks to Micr$oft.)  But still openSuSE should do the job because they wouldn't (if any) have to use CLI.  Everything you need to run it is all GUI.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>openSuSE is what they should try.Back in the day , Lindows is what got me into Linux hence the name .
( Linspire now thanks to Micr $ oft .
) But still openSuSE should do the job because they would n't ( if any ) have to use CLI .
Everything you need to run it is all GUI .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>openSuSE is what they should try.Back in the day, Lindows is what got me into Linux hence the name.
(Linspire now thanks to Micr$oft.
)  But still openSuSE should do the job because they wouldn't (if any) have to use CLI.
Everything you need to run it is all GUI.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216350</id>
	<title>Windows, Linux, OSX, bah.</title>
	<author>Derpnooner</author>
	<datestamp>1266690000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You want to move the family to a new Linux Distro - Mint and Ubuntu are very nice, easy to install, and have a nice array of included/installed software.  You can use dual boot with an old XP partition and show them how to load their old files.
<br> <br>
If they want to just surf, watch videos, type papers, etc. then Ubuntu/Mint is a great choice.
<br> <br>
If they want to play games on the PC, then Windows 7 is the best choice.
<br> <br>
If they want a terrible headache-PITA, then OSX86 may be the ideal choice (it's not, lol).
<br> <br>
If they want to add/subtract/multiply/divide, then a TI-36 Calculator is probably for them.
<br> <br>
Give them the choice, and show them the +/- of each.  Although, if you show them Compiz effects they'll be hooked like I was some 5 years ago.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You want to move the family to a new Linux Distro - Mint and Ubuntu are very nice , easy to install , and have a nice array of included/installed software .
You can use dual boot with an old XP partition and show them how to load their old files .
If they want to just surf , watch videos , type papers , etc .
then Ubuntu/Mint is a great choice .
If they want to play games on the PC , then Windows 7 is the best choice .
If they want a terrible headache-PITA , then OSX86 may be the ideal choice ( it 's not , lol ) .
If they want to add/subtract/multiply/divide , then a TI-36 Calculator is probably for them .
Give them the choice , and show them the + /- of each .
Although , if you show them Compiz effects they 'll be hooked like I was some 5 years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want to move the family to a new Linux Distro - Mint and Ubuntu are very nice, easy to install, and have a nice array of included/installed software.
You can use dual boot with an old XP partition and show them how to load their old files.
If they want to just surf, watch videos, type papers, etc.
then Ubuntu/Mint is a great choice.
If they want to play games on the PC, then Windows 7 is the best choice.
If they want a terrible headache-PITA, then OSX86 may be the ideal choice (it's not, lol).
If they want to add/subtract/multiply/divide, then a TI-36 Calculator is probably for them.
Give them the choice, and show them the +/- of each.
Although, if you show them Compiz effects they'll be hooked like I was some 5 years ago.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211568</id>
	<title>Desktop manager you mean...</title>
	<author>jjoelc</author>
	<datestamp>1266694860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to jump to avoid the frying pan, and land squarely in the fire, I'm afraid, but...</p><p>Forget the distribution question... there are lots of them out there, most of them more than suitable.</p><p>The question for non-techie people is really more about whether to use KDE or Gnome... KDE is generally more Windows-like ("start" button, task bar, system tray, widget placement) and Gnome (esp. in Ubuntu) is more mac-like (minus the dock, but there are solutions to that also)</p><p>from there, I'd just say make sure to make/point out the easiest place to find the apps your converts will be interested in. Load up their bookmarks with links to repositories of good, easy to install, easy to use software, etc.</p><p>And if you are really looking to convince them to convert, be ready to answer a lot of questions. Make one of the biggest selling points the community, and be the primary representative of the community. (in other words, be a good example. be patient, answer questions, and show them how and where to discover the answers on their own. Don't just say "RTFM" or "Google? HELLO?" )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to jump to avoid the frying pan , and land squarely in the fire , I 'm afraid , but...Forget the distribution question... there are lots of them out there , most of them more than suitable.The question for non-techie people is really more about whether to use KDE or Gnome... KDE is generally more Windows-like ( " start " button , task bar , system tray , widget placement ) and Gnome ( esp .
in Ubuntu ) is more mac-like ( minus the dock , but there are solutions to that also ) from there , I 'd just say make sure to make/point out the easiest place to find the apps your converts will be interested in .
Load up their bookmarks with links to repositories of good , easy to install , easy to use software , etc.And if you are really looking to convince them to convert , be ready to answer a lot of questions .
Make one of the biggest selling points the community , and be the primary representative of the community .
( in other words , be a good example .
be patient , answer questions , and show them how and where to discover the answers on their own .
Do n't just say " RTFM " or " Google ?
HELLO ? " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to jump to avoid the frying pan, and land squarely in the fire, I'm afraid, but...Forget the distribution question... there are lots of them out there, most of them more than suitable.The question for non-techie people is really more about whether to use KDE or Gnome... KDE is generally more Windows-like ("start" button, task bar, system tray, widget placement) and Gnome (esp.
in Ubuntu) is more mac-like (minus the dock, but there are solutions to that also)from there, I'd just say make sure to make/point out the easiest place to find the apps your converts will be interested in.
Load up their bookmarks with links to repositories of good, easy to install, easy to use software, etc.And if you are really looking to convince them to convert, be ready to answer a lot of questions.
Make one of the biggest selling points the community, and be the primary representative of the community.
(in other words, be a good example.
be patient, answer questions, and show them how and where to discover the answers on their own.
Don't just say "RTFM" or "Google?
HELLO?" )</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211462</id>
	<title>Linux XP/Ubuntu/Mint</title>
	<author>Kev92486</author>
	<datestamp>1266694320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've never used it before, but I've heard good things about <a href="http://www.linux-xp.com/" title="linux-xp.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.linux-xp.com/</a> [linux-xp.com] which claims to be "The most user-friendly interface ever made for Linux".

I don't think you would have too many problems switching somebody to a distro like Ubuntu or Mint.  Since you mentioned that most of your friends and family only need some basic programs, it shouldn't be too difficult to install the software for them through apt-get and slap the icons into the top panel.  The Ubuntu Software Center is decent enough as well that they can probably find other things that they may need as well, hopefully without having to call you.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never used it before , but I 've heard good things about http : //www.linux-xp.com/ [ linux-xp.com ] which claims to be " The most user-friendly interface ever made for Linux " .
I do n't think you would have too many problems switching somebody to a distro like Ubuntu or Mint .
Since you mentioned that most of your friends and family only need some basic programs , it should n't be too difficult to install the software for them through apt-get and slap the icons into the top panel .
The Ubuntu Software Center is decent enough as well that they can probably find other things that they may need as well , hopefully without having to call you .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never used it before, but I've heard good things about http://www.linux-xp.com/ [linux-xp.com] which claims to be "The most user-friendly interface ever made for Linux".
I don't think you would have too many problems switching somebody to a distro like Ubuntu or Mint.
Since you mentioned that most of your friends and family only need some basic programs, it shouldn't be too difficult to install the software for them through apt-get and slap the icons into the top panel.
The Ubuntu Software Center is decent enough as well that they can probably find other things that they may need as well, hopefully without having to call you.
:P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213834</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Gaffod</author>
	<datestamp>1266666180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. Please be aware that unless you con them with a really convincing windows lookalike (Ylmf OS?) they will realize you've done some fancy stuff on their computers, and may blame Linux for every problem they have. Once they are somewhat advanced, googling windows problems will get them numerous idiot-proof step by step instructions, whereas googling Linux problems may lead to CLI-induced nervous breakdowns. Remember that their friends likely use Windows and when they recommend such and such app or so and so trick and it turns out not to work on Linux, their first thought will not be "Gosh, I should find a Linux equivalent or something!". It will be "Man, this works for everyone except me, my computer must be broken."</p><p>It is also somewhat rude to force your opinions on other, unsuspecting people who may not necessarily share them. It's acceptable if you are actually responsible for maintenance of their system, but if they are asking you to install a nice utility or two busting out the LiveCD may not be the best approach.</p><p>If you insist on transitioning, explain to them in simple enough terms what an OS is, what the differences between the Linux distro and windows are (especially practical ones!) and why their problem can be solved and many future problems can be prevented by using a different OS. The idea is that they have an informed opinion. If you cannot achieve that, sticking them on Linux is a bad idea.</p><p>From personal experience, Kubuntu 9.04 was very similar to windows and extremely easy to navigate. I found the new KDE to be a bit confusing so you might want to go with Ubuntu if you want 9.10.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Please be aware that unless you con them with a really convincing windows lookalike ( Ylmf OS ?
) they will realize you 've done some fancy stuff on their computers , and may blame Linux for every problem they have .
Once they are somewhat advanced , googling windows problems will get them numerous idiot-proof step by step instructions , whereas googling Linux problems may lead to CLI-induced nervous breakdowns .
Remember that their friends likely use Windows and when they recommend such and such app or so and so trick and it turns out not to work on Linux , their first thought will not be " Gosh , I should find a Linux equivalent or something ! " .
It will be " Man , this works for everyone except me , my computer must be broken .
" It is also somewhat rude to force your opinions on other , unsuspecting people who may not necessarily share them .
It 's acceptable if you are actually responsible for maintenance of their system , but if they are asking you to install a nice utility or two busting out the LiveCD may not be the best approach.If you insist on transitioning , explain to them in simple enough terms what an OS is , what the differences between the Linux distro and windows are ( especially practical ones !
) and why their problem can be solved and many future problems can be prevented by using a different OS .
The idea is that they have an informed opinion .
If you can not achieve that , sticking them on Linux is a bad idea.From personal experience , Kubuntu 9.04 was very similar to windows and extremely easy to navigate .
I found the new KDE to be a bit confusing so you might want to go with Ubuntu if you want 9.10 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Please be aware that unless you con them with a really convincing windows lookalike (Ylmf OS?
) they will realize you've done some fancy stuff on their computers, and may blame Linux for every problem they have.
Once they are somewhat advanced, googling windows problems will get them numerous idiot-proof step by step instructions, whereas googling Linux problems may lead to CLI-induced nervous breakdowns.
Remember that their friends likely use Windows and when they recommend such and such app or so and so trick and it turns out not to work on Linux, their first thought will not be "Gosh, I should find a Linux equivalent or something!".
It will be "Man, this works for everyone except me, my computer must be broken.
"It is also somewhat rude to force your opinions on other, unsuspecting people who may not necessarily share them.
It's acceptable if you are actually responsible for maintenance of their system, but if they are asking you to install a nice utility or two busting out the LiveCD may not be the best approach.If you insist on transitioning, explain to them in simple enough terms what an OS is, what the differences between the Linux distro and windows are (especially practical ones!
) and why their problem can be solved and many future problems can be prevented by using a different OS.
The idea is that they have an informed opinion.
If you cannot achieve that, sticking them on Linux is a bad idea.From personal experience, Kubuntu 9.04 was very similar to windows and extremely easy to navigate.
I found the new KDE to be a bit confusing so you might want to go with Ubuntu if you want 9.10.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31232056</id>
	<title>Not as bad as you think</title>
	<author>apexwm</author>
	<datestamp>1266864600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The thing to remember is no matter what path you take sometimes, there is a learning curve.  For instance, using Windows XP and needing to migrate to Windows 7.  Or using Office 2003 and upgrading to Office 2007.  In both of those cases, there's a learning curve.  So, migrating from Windows to Linux, there will be a learning curve.  The size of the curve depends on the amount of software they need.  But, for operating system only, learning Linux is fairly straightforward.  I've deployed Fedora to users that were on Windows XP, and they were instantly at home because they were familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird.  They navigated the Gnome menu easily, everything is laid out logically.  Next thing I knew they were totally comforable with Linux.  Other programs like OpenOffice they had to learn where things are, but it's straightforward.  In the end, it should make things easier because you can practically eliminate viruses, spyware, and the everyday nuisances of Windows.

<a href="http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux" title="apex-internet.com" rel="nofollow">http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux</a> [apex-internet.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing to remember is no matter what path you take sometimes , there is a learning curve .
For instance , using Windows XP and needing to migrate to Windows 7 .
Or using Office 2003 and upgrading to Office 2007 .
In both of those cases , there 's a learning curve .
So , migrating from Windows to Linux , there will be a learning curve .
The size of the curve depends on the amount of software they need .
But , for operating system only , learning Linux is fairly straightforward .
I 've deployed Fedora to users that were on Windows XP , and they were instantly at home because they were familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird .
They navigated the Gnome menu easily , everything is laid out logically .
Next thing I knew they were totally comforable with Linux .
Other programs like OpenOffice they had to learn where things are , but it 's straightforward .
In the end , it should make things easier because you can practically eliminate viruses , spyware , and the everyday nuisances of Windows .
http : //members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux [ apex-internet.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing to remember is no matter what path you take sometimes, there is a learning curve.
For instance, using Windows XP and needing to migrate to Windows 7.
Or using Office 2003 and upgrading to Office 2007.
In both of those cases, there's a learning curve.
So, migrating from Windows to Linux, there will be a learning curve.
The size of the curve depends on the amount of software they need.
But, for operating system only, learning Linux is fairly straightforward.
I've deployed Fedora to users that were on Windows XP, and they were instantly at home because they were familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird.
They navigated the Gnome menu easily, everything is laid out logically.
Next thing I knew they were totally comforable with Linux.
Other programs like OpenOffice they had to learn where things are, but it's straightforward.
In the end, it should make things easier because you can practically eliminate viruses, spyware, and the everyday nuisances of Windows.
http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux [apex-internet.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211500</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>OzPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1266694500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What is the reason for you doing this?  Is it a benefit to your friends and family or is it simply stroking your own ego?  Because if it is the latter, no matter what our good intentions are then it will be doomed because no matter how alike the Linux distro looks to Windows, it will be different and that will cause issues.</p><p>If you can demonstrate a definite benefit to switching then it won't matter what the system you choose looks like</p><p>Otherwise if you want a system that looks, feels and behaves like windows, then you might as well stick with windows</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What is the reason for you doing this ?
Is it a benefit to your friends and family or is it simply stroking your own ego ?
Because if it is the latter , no matter what our good intentions are then it will be doomed because no matter how alike the Linux distro looks to Windows , it will be different and that will cause issues.If you can demonstrate a definite benefit to switching then it wo n't matter what the system you choose looks likeOtherwise if you want a system that looks , feels and behaves like windows , then you might as well stick with windows</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is the reason for you doing this?
Is it a benefit to your friends and family or is it simply stroking your own ego?
Because if it is the latter, no matter what our good intentions are then it will be doomed because no matter how alike the Linux distro looks to Windows, it will be different and that will cause issues.If you can demonstrate a definite benefit to switching then it won't matter what the system you choose looks likeOtherwise if you want a system that looks, feels and behaves like windows, then you might as well stick with windows</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212562</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266657360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier, but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers, and didn't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros.</p></div><p>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier , but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers , and did n't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros.The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now , since there are * way * too many people asking questions , and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier, but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers, and didn't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros.The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218268</id>
	<title>Pardus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266766140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might also want to give <a href="http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/" title="pardus.org.tr" rel="nofollow">Pardus</a> [pardus.org.tr] a shot. Because it's used by the Turkish government, it has been optimized for user-friendliness by the Turkish National Research Institute of Electronics and Cryptology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might also want to give Pardus [ pardus.org.tr ] a shot .
Because it 's used by the Turkish government , it has been optimized for user-friendliness by the Turkish National Research Institute of Electronics and Cryptology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might also want to give Pardus [pardus.org.tr] a shot.
Because it's used by the Turkish government, it has been optimized for user-friendliness by the Turkish National Research Institute of Electronics and Cryptology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211550</id>
	<title>Linux MInt</title>
	<author>Questor Thews</author>
	<datestamp>1266694680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd go for Linux MInt with KDE. It won't quite look like windows, but I've moved three people to Linux Mint this way with no problems.  It's based on Ubuntu, but I've found it easier to use.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd go for Linux MInt with KDE .
It wo n't quite look like windows , but I 've moved three people to Linux Mint this way with no problems .
It 's based on Ubuntu , but I 've found it easier to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd go for Linux MInt with KDE.
It won't quite look like windows, but I've moved three people to Linux Mint this way with no problems.
It's based on Ubuntu, but I've found it easier to use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214248</id>
	<title>Re:Linux Mint</title>
	<author>rwa2</author>
	<datestamp>1266670080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll throw in my lot with <a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" title="linuxmint.com">Linux Mint</a> [linuxmint.com].  I'm a technical Debian user myself, so I may be a bit biased.  But it looks like the easiest to install and get running.  There's a pretty good LiveCD of it, so you can try it out before installing.</p><p>It's based on Ubuntu, but they're not too shy to include more of the non-free stuff pre-installed and configured, such as Flash and proprietary nVidia drivers.  So you won't have to go look up howtos to get those "mainstream essentials" stuff working.</p><p>Also St. Patrick's day is coming up, so it would be a nice opportunity to drink and run an appropriately Irish Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll throw in my lot with Linux Mint [ linuxmint.com ] .
I 'm a technical Debian user myself , so I may be a bit biased .
But it looks like the easiest to install and get running .
There 's a pretty good LiveCD of it , so you can try it out before installing.It 's based on Ubuntu , but they 're not too shy to include more of the non-free stuff pre-installed and configured , such as Flash and proprietary nVidia drivers .
So you wo n't have to go look up howtos to get those " mainstream essentials " stuff working.Also St. Patrick 's day is coming up , so it would be a nice opportunity to drink and run an appropriately Irish Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll throw in my lot with Linux Mint [linuxmint.com].
I'm a technical Debian user myself, so I may be a bit biased.
But it looks like the easiest to install and get running.
There's a pretty good LiveCD of it, so you can try it out before installing.It's based on Ubuntu, but they're not too shy to include more of the non-free stuff pre-installed and configured, such as Flash and proprietary nVidia drivers.
So you won't have to go look up howtos to get those "mainstream essentials" stuff working.Also St. Patrick's day is coming up, so it would be a nice opportunity to drink and run an appropriately Irish Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211986</id>
	<title>XPGome</title>
	<author>PineHall</author>
	<datestamp>1266696960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14" title="online02.com">XPGnome</a> [online02.com] is a XP look alike script that  converts a Ubuntu Gnome distribution to look like Windows XP.  Personally I don't think making it look like Windows XP is the best way to go, because it is not Windows XP.</htmltext>
<tokenext>XPGnome [ online02.com ] is a XP look alike script that converts a Ubuntu Gnome distribution to look like Windows XP .
Personally I do n't think making it look like Windows XP is the best way to go , because it is not Windows XP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>XPGnome [online02.com] is a XP look alike script that  converts a Ubuntu Gnome distribution to look like Windows XP.
Personally I don't think making it look like Windows XP is the best way to go, because it is not Windows XP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218840</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>mikechant</author>
	<datestamp>1266771840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.</i></p><p>I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple' questions on the Ubuntu Forums, and seem to get positive feedback from my answers.  I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system, and get satisfaction from this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now , since there are * way * too many people asking questions , and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple ' questions on the Ubuntu Forums , and seem to get positive feedback from my answers .
I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system , and get satisfaction from this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple' questions on the Ubuntu Forums, and seem to get positive feedback from my answers.
I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system, and get satisfaction from this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212760</id>
	<title>Mint Linux</title>
	<author>chucklebutte</author>
	<datestamp>1266658500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try Mint 6-8. Get older version for older hardware. Mint is pure beauty, very stable, very fast, and very much full of eye candy. I have not run across a single thing I did in windows that I can not do in Linux, if not better in Linux than windows!</p><p>I made the switch about a year ago, been fiddling with Linux for over a decade, (turbo linux, mandrake, potato) but never made the switch till recently. Glad I did and I will never go back. I have got friends and family switched over as well. They too love it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try Mint 6-8 .
Get older version for older hardware .
Mint is pure beauty , very stable , very fast , and very much full of eye candy .
I have not run across a single thing I did in windows that I can not do in Linux , if not better in Linux than windows ! I made the switch about a year ago , been fiddling with Linux for over a decade , ( turbo linux , mandrake , potato ) but never made the switch till recently .
Glad I did and I will never go back .
I have got friends and family switched over as well .
They too love it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try Mint 6-8.
Get older version for older hardware.
Mint is pure beauty, very stable, very fast, and very much full of eye candy.
I have not run across a single thing I did in windows that I can not do in Linux, if not better in Linux than windows!I made the switch about a year ago, been fiddling with Linux for over a decade, (turbo linux, mandrake, potato) but never made the switch till recently.
Glad I did and I will never go back.
I have got friends and family switched over as well.
They too love it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212270</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>supremebob</author>
	<datestamp>1266698640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another thing to keep in mind is that some people still aren't willing to try Linux even if they're frustrated with Windows, simply because they're not willing to learn a new operating system. It's not worth the effort to try to "force" stubborn people like that onto Linux, because they'll eventually end up going back to Windows at some point.</p><p>Personally, I like to recommend Mac OS X as a simpler alternative to Windows, but even a Mac can take awhile for some people to get used to after using Windows for over a decade.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another thing to keep in mind is that some people still are n't willing to try Linux even if they 're frustrated with Windows , simply because they 're not willing to learn a new operating system .
It 's not worth the effort to try to " force " stubborn people like that onto Linux , because they 'll eventually end up going back to Windows at some point.Personally , I like to recommend Mac OS X as a simpler alternative to Windows , but even a Mac can take awhile for some people to get used to after using Windows for over a decade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another thing to keep in mind is that some people still aren't willing to try Linux even if they're frustrated with Windows, simply because they're not willing to learn a new operating system.
It's not worth the effort to try to "force" stubborn people like that onto Linux, because they'll eventually end up going back to Windows at some point.Personally, I like to recommend Mac OS X as a simpler alternative to Windows, but even a Mac can take awhile for some people to get used to after using Windows for over a decade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212630</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>Kamokazi</author>
	<datestamp>1266657660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.  Ask first, and ESPECIALLY keep in mind the 'LOT of questions' part.  I've figured out the hard way that this is a bad idea.  Unless you enjoy being unpaid tech support.  I find it easier to go with Vista/7 and switch it to classic appearance mode.  Far fewer headaches from end users.</p><p>I know, it's great to promote OSS...but desktop Linux is still a ways off from being ready to replace Windows or OSX (psst..this is where you start flaming me).  It works great out of the box, but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software, you will run into headaches.  "I can't install X without Y and Z dependencies?"  And then it's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Ask first , and ESPECIALLY keep in mind the 'LOT of questions ' part .
I 've figured out the hard way that this is a bad idea .
Unless you enjoy being unpaid tech support .
I find it easier to go with Vista/7 and switch it to classic appearance mode .
Far fewer headaches from end users.I know , it 's great to promote OSS...but desktop Linux is still a ways off from being ready to replace Windows or OSX ( psst..this is where you start flaming me ) .
It works great out of the box , but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software , you will run into headaches .
" I ca n't install X without Y and Z dependencies ?
" And then it 's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Ask first, and ESPECIALLY keep in mind the 'LOT of questions' part.
I've figured out the hard way that this is a bad idea.
Unless you enjoy being unpaid tech support.
I find it easier to go with Vista/7 and switch it to classic appearance mode.
Far fewer headaches from end users.I know, it's great to promote OSS...but desktop Linux is still a ways off from being ready to replace Windows or OSX (psst..this is where you start flaming me).
It works great out of the box, but as soon as you want to do much tweaking aside from desktop backgrounds and install some additional software, you will run into headaches.
"I can't install X without Y and Z dependencies?
"  And then it's off to google to find out how to get them...in a way that works with the current version of said dependency on your distro...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215212</id>
	<title>Here is my 2 cents.</title>
	<author>Analog-X64</author>
	<datestamp>1266678060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ok here my take on this subject.  The average person who is not a tech-geek-know-it-all  Trusts the opinion of the tech-geek-know-it-all which is why they ask us what is the best way to go.

Now lets look at whats happened since Windows XP..  Microsoft has decided to come up with last time I counted 7 different versions of Windows 7, and although there are so many versions, in the end are the different versions really that different? The Menus/Options bars etc is pretty much the same.  So you can pick a version of Windows 7 depending on the budget and hardware and off you go.

Now lets look at Linux, I've read through almost half of the comments posted here and I'm more confused from when I read this topic and I thought I knew a bit, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Computers and Operating systems.

The problem with Linux is, there may be 7 different versions (distros) or more, but they all look different and install different.. compared to all the versions of Windows 7 which in the end look very similar, and work similar.

What the Linux Community needs to do is come up with a Unified Distro a sort of Linux Windows.

A distro that when someone asks which Distro of Linux to use, you simply say USE THIS VERSION and be done with it.

Everyone in here has named at least 4 different distros and thats according their tastes.

Well a Non Linux User, doesnt know what flavour they will like... they expect an expert to tell them which flavour is the best.

If Linux enthusiast want to convert people to Linux they need to come up with a Single Distro that you can simply recommend and
would be the defacto standard.

Sometimes too much choice is not a good thing, its like how people go into a sandwich shop and they see all these options on the menu
but in the end they order the same thing they always do.

I've installed Ubuntu, Red Had, KDE and even played around with Knoppix and in the end I didnt know which one to stick with, because
I dont want to invest the time one one Distro to later find another Distro is better and I'd have to re-install etc..

Look at MAC OSX  (I dont own any apple products), thats a good example of having not too many versions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok here my take on this subject .
The average person who is not a tech-geek-know-it-all Trusts the opinion of the tech-geek-know-it-all which is why they ask us what is the best way to go .
Now lets look at whats happened since Windows XP.. Microsoft has decided to come up with last time I counted 7 different versions of Windows 7 , and although there are so many versions , in the end are the different versions really that different ?
The Menus/Options bars etc is pretty much the same .
So you can pick a version of Windows 7 depending on the budget and hardware and off you go .
Now lets look at Linux , I 've read through almost half of the comments posted here and I 'm more confused from when I read this topic and I thought I knew a bit , and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Computers and Operating systems .
The problem with Linux is , there may be 7 different versions ( distros ) or more , but they all look different and install different.. compared to all the versions of Windows 7 which in the end look very similar , and work similar .
What the Linux Community needs to do is come up with a Unified Distro a sort of Linux Windows .
A distro that when someone asks which Distro of Linux to use , you simply say USE THIS VERSION and be done with it .
Everyone in here has named at least 4 different distros and thats according their tastes .
Well a Non Linux User , doesnt know what flavour they will like... they expect an expert to tell them which flavour is the best .
If Linux enthusiast want to convert people to Linux they need to come up with a Single Distro that you can simply recommend and would be the defacto standard .
Sometimes too much choice is not a good thing , its like how people go into a sandwich shop and they see all these options on the menu but in the end they order the same thing they always do .
I 've installed Ubuntu , Red Had , KDE and even played around with Knoppix and in the end I didnt know which one to stick with , because I dont want to invest the time one one Distro to later find another Distro is better and I 'd have to re-install etc. . Look at MAC OSX ( I dont own any apple products ) , thats a good example of having not too many versions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok here my take on this subject.
The average person who is not a tech-geek-know-it-all  Trusts the opinion of the tech-geek-know-it-all which is why they ask us what is the best way to go.
Now lets look at whats happened since Windows XP..  Microsoft has decided to come up with last time I counted 7 different versions of Windows 7, and although there are so many versions, in the end are the different versions really that different?
The Menus/Options bars etc is pretty much the same.
So you can pick a version of Windows 7 depending on the budget and hardware and off you go.
Now lets look at Linux, I've read through almost half of the comments posted here and I'm more confused from when I read this topic and I thought I knew a bit, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Computers and Operating systems.
The problem with Linux is, there may be 7 different versions (distros) or more, but they all look different and install different.. compared to all the versions of Windows 7 which in the end look very similar, and work similar.
What the Linux Community needs to do is come up with a Unified Distro a sort of Linux Windows.
A distro that when someone asks which Distro of Linux to use, you simply say USE THIS VERSION and be done with it.
Everyone in here has named at least 4 different distros and thats according their tastes.
Well a Non Linux User, doesnt know what flavour they will like... they expect an expert to tell them which flavour is the best.
If Linux enthusiast want to convert people to Linux they need to come up with a Single Distro that you can simply recommend and
would be the defacto standard.
Sometimes too much choice is not a good thing, its like how people go into a sandwich shop and they see all these options on the menu
but in the end they order the same thing they always do.
I've installed Ubuntu, Red Had, KDE and even played around with Knoppix and in the end I didnt know which one to stick with, because
I dont want to invest the time one one Distro to later find another Distro is better and I'd have to re-install etc..

Look at MAC OSX  (I dont own any apple products), thats a good example of having not too many versions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214334</id>
	<title>Linux Mint 8</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266670560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The kde version of Linux Mont 8 has the easiest to use desktop, but the Fluxbox version is good as well. Linus Mint works out of the box so new users don't have to install the "restricted extras" They are based on ubuntu</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The kde version of Linux Mont 8 has the easiest to use desktop , but the Fluxbox version is good as well .
Linus Mint works out of the box so new users do n't have to install the " restricted extras " They are based on ubuntu</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The kde version of Linux Mont 8 has the easiest to use desktop, but the Fluxbox version is good as well.
Linus Mint works out of the box so new users don't have to install the "restricted extras" They are based on ubuntu</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215132</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>BountyX</author>
	<datestamp>1266677520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Linus uses a PowerPC G5 with Fedora. He has stated this several times.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Linus uses a PowerPC G5 with Fedora .
He has stated this several times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linus uses a PowerPC G5 with Fedora.
He has stated this several times.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215400</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266679680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>xorg.conf file?</p><p><tt>$ls<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/X11/xorg.conf<br>ls: cannot access<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directory</tt></p><p>I don't seem to have one. I guess it's been deprecated already, so how do I make a copy of a non-existent file?</p><p>And even if there is one, a video driver update can change the way the file is interpreted even if it doesn't change the file itself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>xorg.conf file ? $ ls /etc/X11/xorg.confls : can not access /etc/X11/xorg.conf : No such file or directoryI do n't seem to have one .
I guess it 's been deprecated already , so how do I make a copy of a non-existent file ? And even if there is one , a video driver update can change the way the file is interpreted even if it does n't change the file itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>xorg.conf file?$ls /etc/X11/xorg.confls: cannot access /etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directoryI don't seem to have one.
I guess it's been deprecated already, so how do I make a copy of a non-existent file?And even if there is one, a video driver update can change the way the file is interpreted even if it doesn't change the file itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218208</id>
	<title>Stick to Windows.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266765420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, if you want to slip them Linux, get ready for trouble. You'll have to do everything about their systems. They certainly won't bother to actually learn to handle the system, let alone a way that includes using the console. Until they decide to choose it for themselves, they'll probably keep thinking command-lines should've died out years ago (who cares if they make things so much easier for the experienced). They'll probably ask about those little Windows programs they're so fond of that barely have any function, but don't exist in the Linux world. (No, they probably won't use WINE either.) They might not understand why there are no "ICQ Xtraz" or whatever, or why there's no push-to-talk in their IM. They'll probably get confused whenever they're learning of some new software online and "it's really easy to do, they just need to download and run Setup.exe." And in the end, it'll all be your fault.<br>The year of the Linux desktop already is now, and it has been since 2005 or so. Sadly, the year of the educated user won't be coming until 2020. (By then, all software will be dumbed-down so anyone with no experience can use them, and success standards will have been greatly lowered.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , if you want to slip them Linux , get ready for trouble .
You 'll have to do everything about their systems .
They certainly wo n't bother to actually learn to handle the system , let alone a way that includes using the console .
Until they decide to choose it for themselves , they 'll probably keep thinking command-lines should 've died out years ago ( who cares if they make things so much easier for the experienced ) .
They 'll probably ask about those little Windows programs they 're so fond of that barely have any function , but do n't exist in the Linux world .
( No , they probably wo n't use WINE either .
) They might not understand why there are no " ICQ Xtraz " or whatever , or why there 's no push-to-talk in their IM .
They 'll probably get confused whenever they 're learning of some new software online and " it 's really easy to do , they just need to download and run Setup.exe .
" And in the end , it 'll all be your fault.The year of the Linux desktop already is now , and it has been since 2005 or so .
Sadly , the year of the educated user wo n't be coming until 2020 .
( By then , all software will be dumbed-down so anyone with no experience can use them , and success standards will have been greatly lowered .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, if you want to slip them Linux, get ready for trouble.
You'll have to do everything about their systems.
They certainly won't bother to actually learn to handle the system, let alone a way that includes using the console.
Until they decide to choose it for themselves, they'll probably keep thinking command-lines should've died out years ago (who cares if they make things so much easier for the experienced).
They'll probably ask about those little Windows programs they're so fond of that barely have any function, but don't exist in the Linux world.
(No, they probably won't use WINE either.
) They might not understand why there are no "ICQ Xtraz" or whatever, or why there's no push-to-talk in their IM.
They'll probably get confused whenever they're learning of some new software online and "it's really easy to do, they just need to download and run Setup.exe.
" And in the end, it'll all be your fault.The year of the Linux desktop already is now, and it has been since 2005 or so.
Sadly, the year of the educated user won't be coming until 2020.
(By then, all software will be dumbed-down so anyone with no experience can use them, and success standards will have been greatly lowered.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212522</id>
	<title>Re:Why try to be Windows?</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266657120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I'm the one who's tired with them getting viruses and bringing back their PCs every 3 to 6 months<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-p Macs would force them to buy a new, and expensive, computer, that would be too different from what little they already know, so that's pretty much out. XP is becoming a real pain, and since 7 changes things enough to throw off very incompetent users, I'll take advantage of that to transition them to Linux instead, hopefully bringing an end to the quarterly/semesterly de-crappings.</p><p>I my self am pretty satisfied with Ubuntu, but it definitely does not look like XP at all. I'm downloading openSuse right now, and will try out the KDE version in a VirtualBox on my PC, since it seems to be what most recommend. My original post included that I quite like PuppyLinux too, but for some reason that was edited out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I 'm the one who 's tired with them getting viruses and bringing back their PCs every 3 to 6 months : -p Macs would force them to buy a new , and expensive , computer , that would be too different from what little they already know , so that 's pretty much out .
XP is becoming a real pain , and since 7 changes things enough to throw off very incompetent users , I 'll take advantage of that to transition them to Linux instead , hopefully bringing an end to the quarterly/semesterly de-crappings.I my self am pretty satisfied with Ubuntu , but it definitely does not look like XP at all .
I 'm downloading openSuse right now , and will try out the KDE version in a VirtualBox on my PC , since it seems to be what most recommend .
My original post included that I quite like PuppyLinux too , but for some reason that was edited out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I'm the one who's tired with them getting viruses and bringing back their PCs every 3 to 6 months :-p Macs would force them to buy a new, and expensive, computer, that would be too different from what little they already know, so that's pretty much out.
XP is becoming a real pain, and since 7 changes things enough to throw off very incompetent users, I'll take advantage of that to transition them to Linux instead, hopefully bringing an end to the quarterly/semesterly de-crappings.I my self am pretty satisfied with Ubuntu, but it definitely does not look like XP at all.
I'm downloading openSuse right now, and will try out the KDE version in a VirtualBox on my PC, since it seems to be what most recommend.
My original post included that I quite like PuppyLinux too, but for some reason that was edited out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211412</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not that tech-savy and I have XP and Linux Ubuntu partitioned on my PC. I'm happy with Ubuntu, but I would recommend keeping both OS and use a dual-boot, just in case; but Ubuntu has been great to me so far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not that tech-savy and I have XP and Linux Ubuntu partitioned on my PC .
I 'm happy with Ubuntu , but I would recommend keeping both OS and use a dual-boot , just in case ; but Ubuntu has been great to me so far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not that tech-savy and I have XP and Linux Ubuntu partitioned on my PC.
I'm happy with Ubuntu, but I would recommend keeping both OS and use a dual-boot, just in case; but Ubuntu has been great to me so far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216914</id>
	<title>Linux Mint</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1266785400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll skip the "why do you even think it's a good idea?" routine, and get straight to the point.</p><p>In my opinion, a newbie Linux distro <em>must</em> have these things:</p><p>1. It MUST have decent graphics out of the box. This means proprietary ATI/NVidia drivers.</p><p>2. It MUST play MP3 out of the box.</p><p>3. It MUST play Flash out of the box.</p><p>None of points 1-3 should require any mucking with packages (much less third-party repositories).</p><p>With all that in mind, the only distro that provides it out of the box is Mint. Its "start menu" and overall layout is also more Windows-like, so it might look more familiar.</p><p>Also, when showing plain Ubuntu to people, the reaction to the default brown theme is almost overwhelmingly negative. Sure, you can show them how to change it, but first impressions count. Mint's green/black isn't perfect, IMO, but it's much better looking at the first glance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll skip the " why do you even think it 's a good idea ?
" routine , and get straight to the point.In my opinion , a newbie Linux distro must have these things : 1 .
It MUST have decent graphics out of the box .
This means proprietary ATI/NVidia drivers.2 .
It MUST play MP3 out of the box.3 .
It MUST play Flash out of the box.None of points 1-3 should require any mucking with packages ( much less third-party repositories ) .With all that in mind , the only distro that provides it out of the box is Mint .
Its " start menu " and overall layout is also more Windows-like , so it might look more familiar.Also , when showing plain Ubuntu to people , the reaction to the default brown theme is almost overwhelmingly negative .
Sure , you can show them how to change it , but first impressions count .
Mint 's green/black is n't perfect , IMO , but it 's much better looking at the first glance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll skip the "why do you even think it's a good idea?
" routine, and get straight to the point.In my opinion, a newbie Linux distro must have these things:1.
It MUST have decent graphics out of the box.
This means proprietary ATI/NVidia drivers.2.
It MUST play MP3 out of the box.3.
It MUST play Flash out of the box.None of points 1-3 should require any mucking with packages (much less third-party repositories).With all that in mind, the only distro that provides it out of the box is Mint.
Its "start menu" and overall layout is also more Windows-like, so it might look more familiar.Also, when showing plain Ubuntu to people, the reaction to the default brown theme is almost overwhelmingly negative.
Sure, you can show them how to change it, but first impressions count.
Mint's green/black isn't perfect, IMO, but it's much better looking at the first glance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216670</id>
	<title>Re:Why try to be Windows?</title>
	<author>micheas</author>
	<datestamp>1266695040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always use a linux mint live cd for a week, telling them that it is a little slow because they are running off of a cd rom, but this way they can reboot and still get to windows if it doesn't work out.</p><p>
After a week they should know if they can use Linux or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always use a linux mint live cd for a week , telling them that it is a little slow because they are running off of a cd rom , but this way they can reboot and still get to windows if it does n't work out .
After a week they should know if they can use Linux or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always use a linux mint live cd for a week, telling them that it is a little slow because they are running off of a cd rom, but this way they can reboot and still get to windows if it doesn't work out.
After a week they should know if they can use Linux or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216540</id>
	<title>Use Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266693120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having done the switch from Windows to Linux for my family I can say that once the this is new why doesn't it work like Windows wears off Ubuntu Linux will fill the bill. Of the 7 working computers in the house 3 are Ubuntu 3 are Gentoo and 1 is a Apple No more Windows. The new version of Ubuntu installed on all of my computers from my old HP laptop to My Daughters brand new gaming machine with no hassles. Over the years the house has migrated from KDE to Gnome mainly out of laziness what the desktop looks like just matter that much. There are some hassles using any version of Linux but I will take them over the hassles of using Windows any day. By the way I in no way am recommending Gentoo Linux to a new user it is definitely for the Linux Geek. The Apple is my wifes computer she is a graphic designer and needs Photo Shop yes the GIMP works very well but it is not Photo Shop. All of the ipods iphones and other i junk is handled on the Apple. I would recommend Apples except this person doesn't sound like they want to replace all of their computers with expensive new computers. I wish him good luck with the switch, hang in there the rewards are worth the hassles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having done the switch from Windows to Linux for my family I can say that once the this is new why does n't it work like Windows wears off Ubuntu Linux will fill the bill .
Of the 7 working computers in the house 3 are Ubuntu 3 are Gentoo and 1 is a Apple No more Windows .
The new version of Ubuntu installed on all of my computers from my old HP laptop to My Daughters brand new gaming machine with no hassles .
Over the years the house has migrated from KDE to Gnome mainly out of laziness what the desktop looks like just matter that much .
There are some hassles using any version of Linux but I will take them over the hassles of using Windows any day .
By the way I in no way am recommending Gentoo Linux to a new user it is definitely for the Linux Geek .
The Apple is my wifes computer she is a graphic designer and needs Photo Shop yes the GIMP works very well but it is not Photo Shop .
All of the ipods iphones and other i junk is handled on the Apple .
I would recommend Apples except this person does n't sound like they want to replace all of their computers with expensive new computers .
I wish him good luck with the switch , hang in there the rewards are worth the hassles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having done the switch from Windows to Linux for my family I can say that once the this is new why doesn't it work like Windows wears off Ubuntu Linux will fill the bill.
Of the 7 working computers in the house 3 are Ubuntu 3 are Gentoo and 1 is a Apple No more Windows.
The new version of Ubuntu installed on all of my computers from my old HP laptop to My Daughters brand new gaming machine with no hassles.
Over the years the house has migrated from KDE to Gnome mainly out of laziness what the desktop looks like just matter that much.
There are some hassles using any version of Linux but I will take them over the hassles of using Windows any day.
By the way I in no way am recommending Gentoo Linux to a new user it is definitely for the Linux Geek.
The Apple is my wifes computer she is a graphic designer and needs Photo Shop yes the GIMP works very well but it is not Photo Shop.
All of the ipods iphones and other i junk is handled on the Apple.
I would recommend Apples except this person doesn't sound like they want to replace all of their computers with expensive new computers.
I wish him good luck with the switch, hang in there the rewards are worth the hassles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211872</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>physburn</author>
	<datestamp>1266696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>  Haven't found anything friendlier than Ubuntu, which seems
easier than even MS windows to install. It does have a few problems
though, i don't like grub having half a million kernal versions on startup,
and its can be a pain getting the best resolution out of usually screens.
The X configutor changed completely between 9.04 and 9.10, and i'm
still trying to get it to work at few resolution on my laptop. But it seems
generally stabler and more user friendly than Windows to me.
<p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/Linux/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">Linux</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have n't found anything friendlier than Ubuntu , which seems easier than even MS windows to install .
It does have a few problems though , i do n't like grub having half a million kernal versions on startup , and its can be a pain getting the best resolution out of usually screens .
The X configutor changed completely between 9.04 and 9.10 , and i 'm still trying to get it to work at few resolution on my laptop .
But it seems generally stabler and more user friendly than Windows to me .
--- Linux [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  Haven't found anything friendlier than Ubuntu, which seems
easier than even MS windows to install.
It does have a few problems
though, i don't like grub having half a million kernal versions on startup,
and its can be a pain getting the best resolution out of usually screens.
The X configutor changed completely between 9.04 and 9.10, and i'm
still trying to get it to work at few resolution on my laptop.
But it seems
generally stabler and more user friendly than Windows to me.
---

Linux [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211952</id>
	<title>KMint - Elyssa</title>
	<author>rec9140</author>
	<datestamp>1266696720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get KMint Elyssa - aka Linux Minut KDE CE - Elyssa</p><p>You will do well to SKIP KDE 4.x till KDE rights the ship back to the stability and features of 3.5.10</p><p>KMint includes EVERYTHING YOU NEED:</p><p>Java, Sun Java, not the useless openjava<br>flash<br>codec<br>OpenOffice</p><p>Everything you need to get up and going ready for you.</p><p><a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=28" title="linuxmint.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=28</a> [linuxmint.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get KMint Elyssa - aka Linux Minut KDE CE - ElyssaYou will do well to SKIP KDE 4.x till KDE rights the ship back to the stability and features of 3.5.10KMint includes EVERYTHING YOU NEED : Java , Sun Java , not the useless openjavaflashcodecOpenOfficeEverything you need to get up and going ready for you.http : //www.linuxmint.com/edition.php ? id = 28 [ linuxmint.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get KMint Elyssa - aka Linux Minut KDE CE - ElyssaYou will do well to SKIP KDE 4.x till KDE rights the ship back to the stability and features of 3.5.10KMint includes EVERYTHING YOU NEED:Java, Sun Java, not the useless openjavaflashcodecOpenOfficeEverything you need to get up and going ready for you.http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=28 [linuxmint.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212492</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266656700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lol... Linux is for geeks only lets face it... plus there is too much Windows only software out there to even bother with it. The only alternative for non-geeks is Macintosh but you still miss out on all the cool Windows software if you are used to it... unless of course you feel like going through the hassle of rigging windows to work on your Mac... I wouldn't want to bother though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lol... Linux is for geeks only lets face it... plus there is too much Windows only software out there to even bother with it .
The only alternative for non-geeks is Macintosh but you still miss out on all the cool Windows software if you are used to it... unless of course you feel like going through the hassle of rigging windows to work on your Mac... I would n't want to bother though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lol... Linux is for geeks only lets face it... plus there is too much Windows only software out there to even bother with it.
The only alternative for non-geeks is Macintosh but you still miss out on all the cool Windows software if you are used to it... unless of course you feel like going through the hassle of rigging windows to work on your Mac... I wouldn't want to bother though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213728</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1266665340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1890: Carriages and horses work just fine, why do we need cars?</p><p>Satisfaction isn't a binary thing. If you're willing to make the jump and spend some time relearning things, for a one-time price your life will improve forever (or at least until the next thing comes along).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1890 : Carriages and horses work just fine , why do we need cars ? Satisfaction is n't a binary thing .
If you 're willing to make the jump and spend some time relearning things , for a one-time price your life will improve forever ( or at least until the next thing comes along ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1890: Carriages and horses work just fine, why do we need cars?Satisfaction isn't a binary thing.
If you're willing to make the jump and spend some time relearning things, for a one-time price your life will improve forever (or at least until the next thing comes along).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214924</id>
	<title>Ultimate Edition</title>
	<author>b4upoo</author>
	<datestamp>1266675780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>      The title names it. Ultimate Edition is the cream of Linux distros and it has a very familiar GUI. Based upon Ubuntu it obviously carries with it the ability to use programs in the Debian repositories. I have run every major version of Linux as well as many less known distros and to date Ultimate Edition rules the roost. In second place Mint is nice but the latest Mint releases don't seem quit as nice as some earlier ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The title names it .
Ultimate Edition is the cream of Linux distros and it has a very familiar GUI .
Based upon Ubuntu it obviously carries with it the ability to use programs in the Debian repositories .
I have run every major version of Linux as well as many less known distros and to date Ultimate Edition rules the roost .
In second place Mint is nice but the latest Mint releases do n't seem quit as nice as some earlier ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>      The title names it.
Ultimate Edition is the cream of Linux distros and it has a very familiar GUI.
Based upon Ubuntu it obviously carries with it the ability to use programs in the Debian repositories.
I have run every major version of Linux as well as many less known distros and to date Ultimate Edition rules the roost.
In second place Mint is nice but the latest Mint releases don't seem quit as nice as some earlier ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212556</id>
	<title>Linux os for windows user</title>
	<author>normlkid</author>
	<datestamp>1266657300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have been attempting to convert anyone and everyone that will listen since the release of Vista.<br> <br>

In my experience the best distro that provides an easy transition is<br> <br>

<strong>Simply Mepis</strong> <br> <br>

Through trial and error I have learned that the non-techie is not concerned with updating their hardware often and that may cause an issue with ubuntu and other flash versions of Linux.<br> <br>

In which case Simply Mepis as a neat little cousin called AnTix designed to give a better experience on older hardware.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been attempting to convert anyone and everyone that will listen since the release of Vista .
In my experience the best distro that provides an easy transition is Simply Mepis Through trial and error I have learned that the non-techie is not concerned with updating their hardware often and that may cause an issue with ubuntu and other flash versions of Linux .
In which case Simply Mepis as a neat little cousin called AnTix designed to give a better experience on older hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been attempting to convert anyone and everyone that will listen since the release of Vista.
In my experience the best distro that provides an easy transition is 

Simply Mepis  

Through trial and error I have learned that the non-techie is not concerned with updating their hardware often and that may cause an issue with ubuntu and other flash versions of Linux.
In which case Simply Mepis as a neat little cousin called AnTix designed to give a better experience on older hardware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217986</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>xOneca</author>
	<datestamp>1266763260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love the <a href="http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/" title="zegeniestudios.net" rel="nofollow">Linux Distribution Chooser</a> [zegeniestudios.net]. I've recommended it to all my friends. It's great!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love the Linux Distribution Chooser [ zegeniestudios.net ] .
I 've recommended it to all my friends .
It 's great !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love the Linux Distribution Chooser [zegeniestudios.net].
I've recommended it to all my friends.
It's great!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218756</id>
	<title>OpenSUSE is the best finished</title>
	<author>cflange</author>
	<datestamp>1266771120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My vote goes to openSUSE. It is well integrated and has the best finish, because they make sure all packages work well together. And administration could not be simpler than with YaST. Soon there will be a secure web interface for YaST and you will be able to service these converted machines remotely, if you need to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My vote goes to openSUSE .
It is well integrated and has the best finish , because they make sure all packages work well together .
And administration could not be simpler than with YaST .
Soon there will be a secure web interface for YaST and you will be able to service these converted machines remotely , if you need to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My vote goes to openSUSE.
It is well integrated and has the best finish, because they make sure all packages work well together.
And administration could not be simpler than with YaST.
Soon there will be a secure web interface for YaST and you will be able to service these converted machines remotely, if you need to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31222168</id>
	<title>To:  Apple Computer, Inc.</title>
	<author>Snowbat</author>
	<datestamp>1266748860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Currently, the iTunes Music Store is only accessible from Windows/MacOS-based Systems. As Apple seems to be open-source-friendly, we would really like to see a native Linux port of the iTunes application.

I really think there are people who use Linux and who would like to buy songs or listen to DAAP-streams via iTunes, but right now there are no (or only insufficient) solutions for that.

So, please port iTunes to Linux!

Sincerely,</p> </div><p> <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/itmslin/petition.html" title="petitiononline.com" rel="nofollow">The Undersigned</a> [petitiononline.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Currently , the iTunes Music Store is only accessible from Windows/MacOS-based Systems .
As Apple seems to be open-source-friendly , we would really like to see a native Linux port of the iTunes application .
I really think there are people who use Linux and who would like to buy songs or listen to DAAP-streams via iTunes , but right now there are no ( or only insufficient ) solutions for that .
So , please port iTunes to Linux !
Sincerely , The Undersigned [ petitiononline.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Currently, the iTunes Music Store is only accessible from Windows/MacOS-based Systems.
As Apple seems to be open-source-friendly, we would really like to see a native Linux port of the iTunes application.
I really think there are people who use Linux and who would like to buy songs or listen to DAAP-streams via iTunes, but right now there are no (or only insufficient) solutions for that.
So, please port iTunes to Linux!
Sincerely,  The Undersigned [petitiononline.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31226198</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>merockstar</author>
	<datestamp>1266776760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>odd. they must have done something to iTunes that broke it because sometime in the year 2005 I distinctly remember running iTunes like a champ under wine on my laptop running ubuntu at the time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>odd .
they must have done something to iTunes that broke it because sometime in the year 2005 I distinctly remember running iTunes like a champ under wine on my laptop running ubuntu at the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>odd.
they must have done something to iTunes that broke it because sometime in the year 2005 I distinctly remember running iTunes like a champ under wine on my laptop running ubuntu at the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214078</id>
	<title>Re:Linux Mint?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266668640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes this is the choice. It includes all the mp3, flash playback yada yada out of the box. The 'start' menu looks like vista/7. It even has a sort of control panel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes this is the choice .
It includes all the mp3 , flash playback yada yada out of the box .
The 'start ' menu looks like vista/7 .
It even has a sort of control panel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes this is the choice.
It includes all the mp3, flash playback yada yada out of the box.
The 'start' menu looks like vista/7.
It even has a sort of control panel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217636</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266758460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last time I used iTunes it was via Jon Lech Johansen's myTunes. Nowadays, I'm mostly just using download.mediamarkt.de or amazon mp3 for buying music, so no idea whether myTunes still works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I used iTunes it was via Jon Lech Johansen 's myTunes .
Nowadays , I 'm mostly just using download.mediamarkt.de or amazon mp3 for buying music , so no idea whether myTunes still works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I used iTunes it was via Jon Lech Johansen's myTunes.
Nowadays, I'm mostly just using download.mediamarkt.de or amazon mp3 for buying music, so no idea whether myTunes still works.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212494</id>
	<title>SUSE and MANDRIVA with KDE desktop are great...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266656700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mandriva is perhaps the best looking distribution available and it is easy to use. Same with SUSE but not quite as stylish. (I have used both for about a decade.) The newest Mandriva, 2010, looks like a cross between Mac and MS visual style and is very nice looking with large and easy to understand heading in the control areas for updates or set up.</p><p>Try a LIVE disk of either SUSE or MANDRIVA since you can run it on their computer to let them look at it before you install it.</p><p>Updates are perhaps easier with Mandriva but either is excellent. Ubuntu is also a good choice with KDE desktop which is called KUBUNTU for download. It is also offering a live disk to try. Updates are easy with Ubuntu as well.</p><p>All are stable, virus free and easy to use.</p><p>Enjoy. I was a beta tester for Windows 7 and it is the best Windows release ever, possibly. Just an opinion. I use Mandriva 2010.1 alpha at home for testing and XP Pro plus Mandriva 2010 Power Pack version in my T23 IBM ThinkPad and my X31 ThinkPad.</p><p>cheers,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mandriva is perhaps the best looking distribution available and it is easy to use .
Same with SUSE but not quite as stylish .
( I have used both for about a decade .
) The newest Mandriva , 2010 , looks like a cross between Mac and MS visual style and is very nice looking with large and easy to understand heading in the control areas for updates or set up.Try a LIVE disk of either SUSE or MANDRIVA since you can run it on their computer to let them look at it before you install it.Updates are perhaps easier with Mandriva but either is excellent .
Ubuntu is also a good choice with KDE desktop which is called KUBUNTU for download .
It is also offering a live disk to try .
Updates are easy with Ubuntu as well.All are stable , virus free and easy to use.Enjoy .
I was a beta tester for Windows 7 and it is the best Windows release ever , possibly .
Just an opinion .
I use Mandriva 2010.1 alpha at home for testing and XP Pro plus Mandriva 2010 Power Pack version in my T23 IBM ThinkPad and my X31 ThinkPad.cheers,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mandriva is perhaps the best looking distribution available and it is easy to use.
Same with SUSE but not quite as stylish.
(I have used both for about a decade.
) The newest Mandriva, 2010, looks like a cross between Mac and MS visual style and is very nice looking with large and easy to understand heading in the control areas for updates or set up.Try a LIVE disk of either SUSE or MANDRIVA since you can run it on their computer to let them look at it before you install it.Updates are perhaps easier with Mandriva but either is excellent.
Ubuntu is also a good choice with KDE desktop which is called KUBUNTU for download.
It is also offering a live disk to try.
Updates are easy with Ubuntu as well.All are stable, virus free and easy to use.Enjoy.
I was a beta tester for Windows 7 and it is the best Windows release ever, possibly.
Just an opinion.
I use Mandriva 2010.1 alpha at home for testing and XP Pro plus Mandriva 2010 Power Pack version in my T23 IBM ThinkPad and my X31 ThinkPad.cheers,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213588</id>
	<title>Re:Stick with Windows or Mac</title>
	<author>Teun</author>
	<datestamp>1266664140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions. They will be looking at you to fix everything,</p></div><p>You said it.</p><p>
And because OP is the one doing the work he wants something low-maintenance and we all know Windows isn't that something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions .
They will be looking at you to fix everything,You said it .
And because OP is the one doing the work he wants something low-maintenance and we all know Windows is n't that something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your family and friends know NOTHING about Linux and the different distributions.
They will be looking at you to fix everything,You said it.
And because OP is the one doing the work he wants something low-maintenance and we all know Windows isn't that something.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217464</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266754380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think <a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" title="linuxmint.com" rel="nofollow">Linux Mint</a> [linuxmint.com] is better than Ubuntu. It just feels more polished.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think Linux Mint [ linuxmint.com ] is better than Ubuntu .
It just feels more polished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think Linux Mint [linuxmint.com] is better than Ubuntu.
It just feels more polished.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217334</id>
	<title>Ubuntu is least like Windows</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1266751380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Menu at the top AND the bottom...?? Guaranteed to freak Windows users out.</p><p>Last time I did a "Linux for Windows users" installation I used SUSE. It was in a cybercafe (the most casual of users) and nobody seemed to have any problems.</p><p>Sorry, Ubuntu, but there it is...</p><p>Browser: FIrefox<br>Messenger: <a href="http://www.amsn-project.net/" title="amsn-project.net">http://www.amsn-project.net/</a> [amsn-project.net]<br>Email: They're not using web-based email??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Menu at the top AND the bottom... ? ?
Guaranteed to freak Windows users out.Last time I did a " Linux for Windows users " installation I used SUSE .
It was in a cybercafe ( the most casual of users ) and nobody seemed to have any problems.Sorry , Ubuntu , but there it is...Browser : FIrefoxMessenger : http : //www.amsn-project.net/ [ amsn-project.net ] Email : They 're not using web-based email ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Menu at the top AND the bottom...??
Guaranteed to freak Windows users out.Last time I did a "Linux for Windows users" installation I used SUSE.
It was in a cybercafe (the most casual of users) and nobody seemed to have any problems.Sorry, Ubuntu, but there it is...Browser: FIrefoxMessenger: http://www.amsn-project.net/ [amsn-project.net]Email: They're not using web-based email?
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216700</id>
	<title>$8 USB memory stick with one of several Linux</title>
	<author>beachdog</author>
	<datestamp>1266695460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can have some fun with your project with bootable Linux distributions installed on USB memory sticks.</p><p>The thing Windows simply cannot do is not be the #1 Internet hacking target of all time. A Linux distro moderately tweaked for security is potentially quite robust.</p><p>The memory sticks cost $8.25 each for 2 gigabyte size and loading a Linux distribution is dead simple. The only problem is which distribution out of so many good ones?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The USB memory stick advantage is: Much less futzing with the hardware. Just plug it in, maybe twiddle the BIOS boot settings and go.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The disadvantage, so far for me is some USB Linux distros are intended as intermediates for a hard disk install, other distros are intended for troubleshooting the guest hardware. I am not clear yet on which one is best for long term use from the USB drive.</p><p>What I have been looking for is a Linux desktop distribution optimized like this:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Designed for the operating system to stay on the USB drive.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Has a browser, user capabilities, and file system already tuned for security.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Has a tripwire system to spot any operating system modifications.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Secure enough to connect directly to the internet without a home-router type front end, i.e. not hackable even by a determined intruder and not compromised by the legions of browser exploits.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Has ability to set up proprietary wireless driver devices without a temporary physical ethernet cable.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Runs flash and the problem video codecs, or allows you to add them as needed.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Will not let a Windows program erase files from the USB memory stick.</p><p>There is a utility program on sourceforge called unetbootin-linux that makes burning memory sticks a 3-click process.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; So far here are my favorite bootable Linuxes:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Knoppix<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... offers to set up a user file on the hard disk at boot time. Really neat graphical desktop.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mint...         as mentioned by others it  is pretty neat.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Slax             a bootable desktop version of the venerable and famous Slackware.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CentOS        needed a live version downloaded manually by me. Comfortable, conservative and solid.</p><p>See? Your simple Ask Slashdot question really means you can become your own distribution architect/connoisseur in your spare time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can have some fun with your project with bootable Linux distributions installed on USB memory sticks.The thing Windows simply can not do is not be the # 1 Internet hacking target of all time .
A Linux distro moderately tweaked for security is potentially quite robust.The memory sticks cost $ 8.25 each for 2 gigabyte size and loading a Linux distribution is dead simple .
The only problem is which distribution out of so many good ones ?
        The USB memory stick advantage is : Much less futzing with the hardware .
Just plug it in , maybe twiddle the BIOS boot settings and go .
        The disadvantage , so far for me is some USB Linux distros are intended as intermediates for a hard disk install , other distros are intended for troubleshooting the guest hardware .
I am not clear yet on which one is best for long term use from the USB drive.What I have been looking for is a Linux desktop distribution optimized like this :                   Designed for the operating system to stay on the USB drive .
                  Has a browser , user capabilities , and file system already tuned for security .
                  Has a tripwire system to spot any operating system modifications .
                  Secure enough to connect directly to the internet without a home-router type front end , i.e .
not hackable even by a determined intruder and not compromised by the legions of browser exploits .
                  Has ability to set up proprietary wireless driver devices without a temporary physical ethernet cable .
                  Runs flash and the problem video codecs , or allows you to add them as needed .
                  Will not let a Windows program erase files from the USB memory stick.There is a utility program on sourceforge called unetbootin-linux that makes burning memory sticks a 3-click process .
                So far here are my favorite bootable Linuxes :                           Knoppix ... offers to set up a user file on the hard disk at boot time .
Really neat graphical desktop .
                          Mint... as mentioned by others it is pretty neat .
                          Slax a bootable desktop version of the venerable and famous Slackware .
                          CentOS needed a live version downloaded manually by me .
Comfortable , conservative and solid.See ?
Your simple Ask Slashdot question really means you can become your own distribution architect/connoisseur in your spare time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can have some fun with your project with bootable Linux distributions installed on USB memory sticks.The thing Windows simply cannot do is not be the #1 Internet hacking target of all time.
A Linux distro moderately tweaked for security is potentially quite robust.The memory sticks cost $8.25 each for 2 gigabyte size and loading a Linux distribution is dead simple.
The only problem is which distribution out of so many good ones?
        The USB memory stick advantage is: Much less futzing with the hardware.
Just plug it in, maybe twiddle the BIOS boot settings and go.
        The disadvantage, so far for me is some USB Linux distros are intended as intermediates for a hard disk install, other distros are intended for troubleshooting the guest hardware.
I am not clear yet on which one is best for long term use from the USB drive.What I have been looking for is a Linux desktop distribution optimized like this:
                  Designed for the operating system to stay on the USB drive.
                  Has a browser, user capabilities, and file system already tuned for security.
                  Has a tripwire system to spot any operating system modifications.
                  Secure enough to connect directly to the internet without a home-router type front end, i.e.
not hackable even by a determined intruder and not compromised by the legions of browser exploits.
                  Has ability to set up proprietary wireless driver devices without a temporary physical ethernet cable.
                  Runs flash and the problem video codecs, or allows you to add them as needed.
                  Will not let a Windows program erase files from the USB memory stick.There is a utility program on sourceforge called unetbootin-linux that makes burning memory sticks a 3-click process.
                So far here are my favorite bootable Linuxes:
                          Knoppix ... offers to set up a user file on the hard disk at boot time.
Really neat graphical desktop.
                          Mint...         as mentioned by others it  is pretty neat.
                          Slax             a bootable desktop version of the venerable and famous Slackware.
                          CentOS        needed a live version downloaded manually by me.
Comfortable, conservative and solid.See?
Your simple Ask Slashdot question really means you can become your own distribution architect/connoisseur in your spare time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211766</id>
	<title>Mint/Ubuntu, CentOS</title>
	<author>digitalhermit</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 8yr old daughter uses Ubuntu without issue. I use mainly CentOS, but am impressed by Linux Mint. All have Windows-ish interfaces with start bar and icons. She bounces between XP on her laptop and Ubuntu on her desktop, and doesn't have any issues; she even tells me what dfferences there are between them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 8yr old daughter uses Ubuntu without issue .
I use mainly CentOS , but am impressed by Linux Mint .
All have Windows-ish interfaces with start bar and icons .
She bounces between XP on her laptop and Ubuntu on her desktop , and does n't have any issues ; she even tells me what dfferences there are between them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 8yr old daughter uses Ubuntu without issue.
I use mainly CentOS, but am impressed by Linux Mint.
All have Windows-ish interfaces with start bar and icons.
She bounces between XP on her laptop and Ubuntu on her desktop, and doesn't have any issues; she even tells me what dfferences there are between them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216574</id>
	<title>charan gp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266693780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i think its better to opt for puppy linux.<br>review-<br>http://infogiz.com/2010/02/linux-for-the-faint-hearted/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i think its better to opt for puppy linux.review-http : //infogiz.com/2010/02/linux-for-the-faint-hearted/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i think its better to opt for puppy linux.review-http://infogiz.com/2010/02/linux-for-the-faint-hearted/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217574</id>
	<title>if it ain't broke don't fix it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266757080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>see subject</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>see subject</tokentext>
<sentencetext>see subject</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31222454</id>
	<title>PCLinuxOS or Simply MEPIS</title>
	<author>fschmeisser</author>
	<datestamp>1266750180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...are my choices for usability from a Windows perspective. Everything just works. Caveat: Both use KDE 3.5 and the kopete instant messenger won't connect to yahoo, but Mepis has a very promising beta out with KDE 4 which does connect. Alternately, install pidgin from the PCLOS repositories. Linux Mint is another fine choice, but I'm partial to KDE.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...are my choices for usability from a Windows perspective .
Everything just works .
Caveat : Both use KDE 3.5 and the kopete instant messenger wo n't connect to yahoo , but Mepis has a very promising beta out with KDE 4 which does connect .
Alternately , install pidgin from the PCLOS repositories .
Linux Mint is another fine choice , but I 'm partial to KDE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...are my choices for usability from a Windows perspective.
Everything just works.
Caveat: Both use KDE 3.5 and the kopete instant messenger won't connect to yahoo, but Mepis has a very promising beta out with KDE 4 which does connect.
Alternately, install pidgin from the PCLOS repositories.
Linux Mint is another fine choice, but I'm partial to KDE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212178</id>
	<title>The Distro Lotto</title>
	<author>unixguy43</author>
	<datestamp>1266698160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask 10 different people which distro to use, and you're likely to get 10 different answers.</p><p>Personally, I've been using RedHat/Fedora since it was pre-1.0, and it works for me.  Is it the right choice?  Maybe- maybe not- but it's my choice.   I've also used Slackware, SuSE, Mandriva, Ubuntu, and Debian, but keep coming back to Fedora.</p><p>From the standpoint of the look and feel, you're most likely going to be using either Gnome or KDE as a window manager, and with enough playing around, you can make either one of them look pretty much like Windows if that's your goal.</p><p>There's a lot of good distros out there, and personal preference plays a major role in which one gets recommended.  I'd recommend trying a few out, and seeing which one gives you the best functionality and ease of use based on your specific needs.  There's a lot of good options suggested throughout the comments here, so I'd say try out the ones that have the most mentions, and see which of them works best for you.</p><p>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask 10 different people which distro to use , and you 're likely to get 10 different answers.Personally , I 've been using RedHat/Fedora since it was pre-1.0 , and it works for me .
Is it the right choice ?
Maybe- maybe not- but it 's my choice .
I 've also used Slackware , SuSE , Mandriva , Ubuntu , and Debian , but keep coming back to Fedora.From the standpoint of the look and feel , you 're most likely going to be using either Gnome or KDE as a window manager , and with enough playing around , you can make either one of them look pretty much like Windows if that 's your goal.There 's a lot of good distros out there , and personal preference plays a major role in which one gets recommended .
I 'd recommend trying a few out , and seeing which one gives you the best functionality and ease of use based on your specific needs .
There 's a lot of good options suggested throughout the comments here , so I 'd say try out the ones that have the most mentions , and see which of them works best for you.Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask 10 different people which distro to use, and you're likely to get 10 different answers.Personally, I've been using RedHat/Fedora since it was pre-1.0, and it works for me.
Is it the right choice?
Maybe- maybe not- but it's my choice.
I've also used Slackware, SuSE, Mandriva, Ubuntu, and Debian, but keep coming back to Fedora.From the standpoint of the look and feel, you're most likely going to be using either Gnome or KDE as a window manager, and with enough playing around, you can make either one of them look pretty much like Windows if that's your goal.There's a lot of good distros out there, and personal preference plays a major role in which one gets recommended.
I'd recommend trying a few out, and seeing which one gives you the best functionality and ease of use based on your specific needs.
There's a lot of good options suggested throughout the comments here, so I'd say try out the ones that have the most mentions, and see which of them works best for you.Good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213018</id>
	<title>Re:Stick with Windows or Mac</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266660120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or maybe I'm asking now to get a headstart ?</p><p>I've already got Ubuntu up on a couple of PCs, managed to get the susual stuff, and even VLC after a bit of tweaking, running... I'm just missing a good IM client and Skype, and I'll be up to speed with what 'my' users need. I'm still having issues with NTFS-to-NTFS disk/directory synchronization (timestamps seem borked ? I miss xxcopy and SyncToy badly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p ), backups/restores (linux seems to spread its config files even wider than windows ?), and RDP remote desktop (VNC is very slow).</p><p>they don' know much about XP either, and less about Vista. The only place they go for help is me... It would be a good laugh to send them over to technet...</p><p>Mac is expensive, different from XP, requires a new PC...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or maybe I 'm asking now to get a headstart ? I 've already got Ubuntu up on a couple of PCs , managed to get the susual stuff , and even VLC after a bit of tweaking , running... I 'm just missing a good IM client and Skype , and I 'll be up to speed with what 'my ' users need .
I 'm still having issues with NTFS-to-NTFS disk/directory synchronization ( timestamps seem borked ?
I miss xxcopy and SyncToy badly : p ) , backups/restores ( linux seems to spread its config files even wider than windows ?
) , and RDP remote desktop ( VNC is very slow ) .they don ' know much about XP either , and less about Vista .
The only place they go for help is me... It would be a good laugh to send them over to technet...Mac is expensive , different from XP , requires a new PC.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or maybe I'm asking now to get a headstart ?I've already got Ubuntu up on a couple of PCs, managed to get the susual stuff, and even VLC after a bit of tweaking, running... I'm just missing a good IM client and Skype, and I'll be up to speed with what 'my' users need.
I'm still having issues with NTFS-to-NTFS disk/directory synchronization (timestamps seem borked ?
I miss xxcopy and SyncToy badly :p ), backups/restores (linux seems to spread its config files even wider than windows ?
), and RDP remote desktop (VNC is very slow).they don' know much about XP either, and less about Vista.
The only place they go for help is me... It would be a good laugh to send them over to technet...Mac is expensive, different from XP, requires a new PC...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212704</id>
	<title>Mint. Especially Min8 KDE Community Edition.</title>
	<author>joedoc</author>
	<datestamp>1266658140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mint is based on the Ubuntus, so it has access to the same software repositories.
<br> <br>
The installer is pretty much the same as Ubuntu's, which means it's easy.
<br> <br>
The one thing that Mint has over regular Ubuntus is that the Mint builders have included all the non-free, somewhat-proprietary stuff about which most FOSS purists get their panties in a twist. Having been a Linux user since the beginning, I agree with and fully support the idea of FOSS, GPLs and the like. In theory, it's wonderful, and it's brought a great set of computing tools to the world. But the Richard Stallman-influenced world of "only fully free is acceptable" makes no sense in the real world (well, maybe in <a href="http://stallman.org/" title="stallman.org">Stallman's world)</a> [stallman.org], especially among the people the poster is attempting to assist.
<br> <br>
Most Windows users/converts want stuff to just work. Leaving out multimedia codecs because someone has a copyright on it or because you're offended by the license restrictions doesn't help the user who doesn't understand those lofty concepts. Yes, people can learn about and and decide for themselves, and yes, hopefully, someone will come along and develop fully-free, GPL'ed versions of all the offending tools. But, in the meantime, people want their shit to work.
<br> <br>
Mint comes as close to this environment as you're going to get. You do a basic install, and everything works out of the box, including just about any multimedia content you can throw at it. And the standard install has all the things you need: a messenger tool, Thnderbird for mail, multiple browsers (including Firefox), and office suites for all the Powerpoint stuff (OpenOffice is there by default).
<br> <br>
I can recommend the KDE Community Edition for a number of reasons, the most important of which is that the KDE 4.3 setup in Mint 8 will provide a very comfortable interface for someone transitioning from Windows. Yes, people will have to learn a few things, like which app does which thing, but even the menu design will make that simple. The familiar toolbar is there, pretty much the way you described it, and adding desktop and toolbar widgets is a snap. This is a feature that will be a kick to a lot of new users.
<br> <br>
There's no question that you might run into some issues with really exotic hardware, but those instances are becoming rarer by the day. As for customization, well, there's a lot built in for changing the look-and-feel around, and there's a lot of skins and themes available with a simple download.
<br> <br>
With a very active on-line community, there are few issues that can't be solved.
<br> <br>
Have a look at the LiveCD and see if you agree. I believe most of these users will be very pleased.
<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/download\_ce.php" title="linuxmint.com">http://www.linuxmint.com/download\_ce.php</a> [linuxmint.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mint is based on the Ubuntus , so it has access to the same software repositories .
The installer is pretty much the same as Ubuntu 's , which means it 's easy .
The one thing that Mint has over regular Ubuntus is that the Mint builders have included all the non-free , somewhat-proprietary stuff about which most FOSS purists get their panties in a twist .
Having been a Linux user since the beginning , I agree with and fully support the idea of FOSS , GPLs and the like .
In theory , it 's wonderful , and it 's brought a great set of computing tools to the world .
But the Richard Stallman-influenced world of " only fully free is acceptable " makes no sense in the real world ( well , maybe in Stallman 's world ) [ stallman.org ] , especially among the people the poster is attempting to assist .
Most Windows users/converts want stuff to just work .
Leaving out multimedia codecs because someone has a copyright on it or because you 're offended by the license restrictions does n't help the user who does n't understand those lofty concepts .
Yes , people can learn about and and decide for themselves , and yes , hopefully , someone will come along and develop fully-free , GPL'ed versions of all the offending tools .
But , in the meantime , people want their shit to work .
Mint comes as close to this environment as you 're going to get .
You do a basic install , and everything works out of the box , including just about any multimedia content you can throw at it .
And the standard install has all the things you need : a messenger tool , Thnderbird for mail , multiple browsers ( including Firefox ) , and office suites for all the Powerpoint stuff ( OpenOffice is there by default ) .
I can recommend the KDE Community Edition for a number of reasons , the most important of which is that the KDE 4.3 setup in Mint 8 will provide a very comfortable interface for someone transitioning from Windows .
Yes , people will have to learn a few things , like which app does which thing , but even the menu design will make that simple .
The familiar toolbar is there , pretty much the way you described it , and adding desktop and toolbar widgets is a snap .
This is a feature that will be a kick to a lot of new users .
There 's no question that you might run into some issues with really exotic hardware , but those instances are becoming rarer by the day .
As for customization , well , there 's a lot built in for changing the look-and-feel around , and there 's a lot of skins and themes available with a simple download .
With a very active on-line community , there are few issues that ca n't be solved .
Have a look at the LiveCD and see if you agree .
I believe most of these users will be very pleased .
http : //www.linuxmint.com/download \ _ce.php [ linuxmint.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mint is based on the Ubuntus, so it has access to the same software repositories.
The installer is pretty much the same as Ubuntu's, which means it's easy.
The one thing that Mint has over regular Ubuntus is that the Mint builders have included all the non-free, somewhat-proprietary stuff about which most FOSS purists get their panties in a twist.
Having been a Linux user since the beginning, I agree with and fully support the idea of FOSS, GPLs and the like.
In theory, it's wonderful, and it's brought a great set of computing tools to the world.
But the Richard Stallman-influenced world of "only fully free is acceptable" makes no sense in the real world (well, maybe in Stallman's world) [stallman.org], especially among the people the poster is attempting to assist.
Most Windows users/converts want stuff to just work.
Leaving out multimedia codecs because someone has a copyright on it or because you're offended by the license restrictions doesn't help the user who doesn't understand those lofty concepts.
Yes, people can learn about and and decide for themselves, and yes, hopefully, someone will come along and develop fully-free, GPL'ed versions of all the offending tools.
But, in the meantime, people want their shit to work.
Mint comes as close to this environment as you're going to get.
You do a basic install, and everything works out of the box, including just about any multimedia content you can throw at it.
And the standard install has all the things you need: a messenger tool, Thnderbird for mail, multiple browsers (including Firefox), and office suites for all the Powerpoint stuff (OpenOffice is there by default).
I can recommend the KDE Community Edition for a number of reasons, the most important of which is that the KDE 4.3 setup in Mint 8 will provide a very comfortable interface for someone transitioning from Windows.
Yes, people will have to learn a few things, like which app does which thing, but even the menu design will make that simple.
The familiar toolbar is there, pretty much the way you described it, and adding desktop and toolbar widgets is a snap.
This is a feature that will be a kick to a lot of new users.
There's no question that you might run into some issues with really exotic hardware, but those instances are becoming rarer by the day.
As for customization, well, there's a lot built in for changing the look-and-feel around, and there's a lot of skins and themes available with a simple download.
With a very active on-line community, there are few issues that can't be solved.
Have a look at the LiveCD and see if you agree.
I believe most of these users will be very pleased.
http://www.linuxmint.com/download\_ce.php [linuxmint.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31225626</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>xiong.chiamiov</author>
	<datestamp>1266771720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.</i> </p><p>I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple' questions on the Ubuntu Forums, and seem to get positive feedback from my answers.  I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system, and get satisfaction from this.</p></div><p>Yes, there most certainly are.  But gone are the days where no thread went unsolved.  It's a bit of a gamble that anyone will ever see your thread, much less anyone who can help you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now , since there are * way * too many people asking questions , and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago .
I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple ' questions on the Ubuntu Forums , and seem to get positive feedback from my answers .
I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system , and get satisfaction from this.Yes , there most certainly are .
But gone are the days where no thread went unsolved .
It 's a bit of a gamble that anyone will ever see your thread , much less anyone who can help you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The Ubuntu forums are pretty well trashed now, since there are *way* too many people asking questions, and all the people who could answer them got tired out a few years ago.
I have a reasonable amount of basic Linux competence and enjoy answering 'simple' questions on the Ubuntu Forums, and seem to get positive feedback from my answers.
I get the impression there are still quite a number of people like myself on these forums who just want to help new Linux users make the most of their system, and get satisfaction from this.Yes, there most certainly are.
But gone are the days where no thread went unsolved.
It's a bit of a gamble that anyone will ever see your thread, much less anyone who can help you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218840</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211578</id>
	<title>Ubuntu!</title>
	<author>Tsu Dho Nimh</author>
	<datestamp>1266694920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'ts really very pointy-clicky.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I'ts really very pointy-clicky .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'ts really very pointy-clicky.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31227598</id>
	<title>Re:Making it look like Windows</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1266839820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Making it look like windows without behaving like windows is giving conflicting information;  is the worst thing you can do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Making it look like windows without behaving like windows is giving conflicting information ; is the worst thing you can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making it look like windows without behaving like windows is giving conflicting information;  is the worst thing you can do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217992</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266763320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or Windows 7 which is better than both</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or Windows 7 which is better than both</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or Windows 7 which is better than both</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214194</id>
	<title>For now....its easy</title>
	<author>mooneypilot</author>
	<datestamp>1266669660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ubuntu is a safe bet for now. (though quality of the product is slowly moving in the wrong direction IMHO)

Debian "testing" is a close 2nd.

Suggest adding VirtualBox and re-installing any XP License that they may own..just in case they have a small need.

Also, since you will be supporting them I suspect bit..set up a reverse SSH command, so they can hit your system for when you need to access their system. (you do have a static IP right? )<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
regards
js</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu is a safe bet for now .
( though quality of the product is slowly moving in the wrong direction IMHO ) Debian " testing " is a close 2nd .
Suggest adding VirtualBox and re-installing any XP License that they may own..just in case they have a small need .
Also , since you will be supporting them I suspect bit..set up a reverse SSH command , so they can hit your system for when you need to access their system .
( you do have a static IP right ?
) : - ) regards js</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu is a safe bet for now.
(though quality of the product is slowly moving in the wrong direction IMHO)

Debian "testing" is a close 2nd.
Suggest adding VirtualBox and re-installing any XP License that they may own..just in case they have a small need.
Also, since you will be supporting them I suspect bit..set up a reverse SSH command, so they can hit your system for when you need to access their system.
(you do have a static IP right?
) :-)
regards
js</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217696</id>
	<title>Slashdot users hate people</title>
	<author>amcdiarmid</author>
	<datestamp>1266759540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I saw it on a website yesterday.  Therefore the correct answer is a difficult to use, obtuse unix variant: Therefor, try a BSD variant.  Tell em it runs VMWare (an OpenBSD if I'm interpreting some of the config files correctly.) How about PC BSD.</p><p>Seriously: go to Distrowatch.com Scroll down the right-hand side &amp; look at the current page-hit ranking.  Try the top ten &amp; see how they work for you &amp; offer to install one for your users.  You will be the ONLY tech support for converted users &amp; will have to train people who no nothing about computers how to google for themselves.  Be aware of what you are getting into.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I saw it on a website yesterday .
Therefore the correct answer is a difficult to use , obtuse unix variant : Therefor , try a BSD variant .
Tell em it runs VMWare ( an OpenBSD if I 'm interpreting some of the config files correctly .
) How about PC BSD.Seriously : go to Distrowatch.com Scroll down the right-hand side &amp; look at the current page-hit ranking .
Try the top ten &amp; see how they work for you &amp; offer to install one for your users .
You will be the ONLY tech support for converted users &amp; will have to train people who no nothing about computers how to google for themselves .
Be aware of what you are getting into .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I saw it on a website yesterday.
Therefore the correct answer is a difficult to use, obtuse unix variant: Therefor, try a BSD variant.
Tell em it runs VMWare (an OpenBSD if I'm interpreting some of the config files correctly.
) How about PC BSD.Seriously: go to Distrowatch.com Scroll down the right-hand side &amp; look at the current page-hit ranking.
Try the top ten &amp; see how they work for you &amp; offer to install one for your users.
You will be the ONLY tech support for converted users &amp; will have to train people who no nothing about computers how to google for themselves.
Be aware of what you are getting into.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211396</id>
	<title>Debian</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Debian. Its</p><p>-simple<br>-easy to set up<br>-stable, even testing<br>-uses apt<br>-ubuntu tutorials will work with it 99\% of the time<br>-you wont get laughed off of help forums as you would with ubuntu<br>-includes a large amount of DE/WM choices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Debian .
Its-simple-easy to set up-stable , even testing-uses apt-ubuntu tutorials will work with it 99 \ % of the time-you wont get laughed off of help forums as you would with ubuntu-includes a large amount of DE/WM choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Debian.
Its-simple-easy to set up-stable, even testing-uses apt-ubuntu tutorials will work with it 99\% of the time-you wont get laughed off of help forums as you would with ubuntu-includes a large amount of DE/WM choices.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213044</id>
	<title>Gentoo</title>
	<author>corychristison</author>
	<datestamp>1266660300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously.</p><p>Yes you will have to learn something and won't have something you claim as "usable" right away but I feel everyone should learn the basics from the UNIX world when delving into the Linux world.</p><p>I started on SuSE (8.0 at the time when it was still spelled SuSE - little 'u') and didn't really learn anything until I started compiling software not in the repo's... then I moved into compiling my own kernel for better driver support then I eventually made the switch to Gentoo.</p><p>As I was learning to use and configure it I realized I was completely blinded by the click-et-y-click-ness of SuSE. GUI config tools ruin the mood when it comes to learning and loving Linux.</p><p>If you don't learn how to fix issues manually you will have a bad time. GUI tools can fudge the config if you somehow install the wrong version for the version of the software. In that case the GUI tool will break and you will be stuck with an unusable mess and may have to resort to CLI to fix it.</p><p>Learn the basics first or you will regret it.</p><p>(footnote: if you remember the old SuSE config tools - YaST I think - in version 8.0 and the way they operated in the day, they had a lot of serious issues and frustrated me on a regular basis.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously.Yes you will have to learn something and wo n't have something you claim as " usable " right away but I feel everyone should learn the basics from the UNIX world when delving into the Linux world.I started on SuSE ( 8.0 at the time when it was still spelled SuSE - little 'u ' ) and did n't really learn anything until I started compiling software not in the repo 's... then I moved into compiling my own kernel for better driver support then I eventually made the switch to Gentoo.As I was learning to use and configure it I realized I was completely blinded by the click-et-y-click-ness of SuSE .
GUI config tools ruin the mood when it comes to learning and loving Linux.If you do n't learn how to fix issues manually you will have a bad time .
GUI tools can fudge the config if you somehow install the wrong version for the version of the software .
In that case the GUI tool will break and you will be stuck with an unusable mess and may have to resort to CLI to fix it.Learn the basics first or you will regret it .
( footnote : if you remember the old SuSE config tools - YaST I think - in version 8.0 and the way they operated in the day , they had a lot of serious issues and frustrated me on a regular basis .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.Yes you will have to learn something and won't have something you claim as "usable" right away but I feel everyone should learn the basics from the UNIX world when delving into the Linux world.I started on SuSE (8.0 at the time when it was still spelled SuSE - little 'u') and didn't really learn anything until I started compiling software not in the repo's... then I moved into compiling my own kernel for better driver support then I eventually made the switch to Gentoo.As I was learning to use and configure it I realized I was completely blinded by the click-et-y-click-ness of SuSE.
GUI config tools ruin the mood when it comes to learning and loving Linux.If you don't learn how to fix issues manually you will have a bad time.
GUI tools can fudge the config if you somehow install the wrong version for the version of the software.
In that case the GUI tool will break and you will be stuck with an unusable mess and may have to resort to CLI to fix it.Learn the basics first or you will regret it.
(footnote: if you remember the old SuSE config tools - YaST I think - in version 8.0 and the way they operated in the day, they had a lot of serious issues and frustrated me on a regular basis.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212016</id>
	<title>Lubuntu</title>
	<author>carbuck</author>
	<datestamp>1266697140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lubuntu is very easy to figure out if you're a Windows user, same layout, etc. Plus you get all the benefits of Ubuntu. Super-fast boot as well, even on old hardware.

<a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu" title="ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu</a> [ubuntu.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lubuntu is very easy to figure out if you 're a Windows user , same layout , etc .
Plus you get all the benefits of Ubuntu .
Super-fast boot as well , even on old hardware .
https : //wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu [ ubuntu.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lubuntu is very easy to figure out if you're a Windows user, same layout, etc.
Plus you get all the benefits of Ubuntu.
Super-fast boot as well, even on old hardware.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu [ubuntu.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211740</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>zmooc</author>
	<datestamp>1266695640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Definately Ubuntu. I use Debian myself, but I have recommended Ubuntu to several n00bs after bad experiences with other distros. Generally Ubuntu Just Works and they don't have to bother you for help; n00bs can install it themselves, keep it up-to-date themselves, they can install the software they want and plug in all their peripherals without fiddling with drivers and settings. Other distro's generally just don't have the critical n00b-userbase mass it takes to deliver user-friendly quality all-over on a broad range of hardware.</p><p>Having said that, I'll stick to Debian. But I find it much easier to ask my Ubuntu-using girlfriend to print something for me than to fiddle with cups:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Definately Ubuntu .
I use Debian myself , but I have recommended Ubuntu to several n00bs after bad experiences with other distros .
Generally Ubuntu Just Works and they do n't have to bother you for help ; n00bs can install it themselves , keep it up-to-date themselves , they can install the software they want and plug in all their peripherals without fiddling with drivers and settings .
Other distro 's generally just do n't have the critical n00b-userbase mass it takes to deliver user-friendly quality all-over on a broad range of hardware.Having said that , I 'll stick to Debian .
But I find it much easier to ask my Ubuntu-using girlfriend to print something for me than to fiddle with cups : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Definately Ubuntu.
I use Debian myself, but I have recommended Ubuntu to several n00bs after bad experiences with other distros.
Generally Ubuntu Just Works and they don't have to bother you for help; n00bs can install it themselves, keep it up-to-date themselves, they can install the software they want and plug in all their peripherals without fiddling with drivers and settings.
Other distro's generally just don't have the critical n00b-userbase mass it takes to deliver user-friendly quality all-over on a broad range of hardware.Having said that, I'll stick to Debian.
But I find it much easier to ask my Ubuntu-using girlfriend to print something for me than to fiddle with cups:P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211496</id>
	<title>Arrogant twit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs, I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7</p></div></blockquote><p>OK, this is going to be modded down as flamebait, although I don't intend it to be: Have you even bothered to ask them what <b>they</b> want to do with the computers they own?<br> <br>No offense, and I'm sure you have the best of intentions, but it seems presumptuous for someone who appears to have only recently learned Linux to take it upon themselves to decide what's best for others.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs , I 'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7OK , this is going to be modded down as flamebait , although I do n't intend it to be : Have you even bothered to ask them what they want to do with the computers they own ?
No offense , and I 'm sure you have the best of intentions , but it seems presumptuous for someone who appears to have only recently learned Linux to take it upon themselves to decide what 's best for others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs, I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7OK, this is going to be modded down as flamebait, although I don't intend it to be: Have you even bothered to ask them what they want to do with the computers they own?
No offense, and I'm sure you have the best of intentions, but it seems presumptuous for someone who appears to have only recently learned Linux to take it upon themselves to decide what's best for others.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212476</id>
	<title>Ubuntu - or Linux Mint</title>
	<author>pyite69</author>
	<datestamp>1266656640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ubuntu does the best job of a simple consistent desktop, and their installer "just works".</p><p>Linux Mint is my favorite - it is 99.9\% Ubuntu, but out of the box they install DVD support, media codecs, Flash, Java, and have a more Windows-like start menu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu does the best job of a simple consistent desktop , and their installer " just works " .Linux Mint is my favorite - it is 99.9 \ % Ubuntu , but out of the box they install DVD support , media codecs , Flash , Java , and have a more Windows-like start menu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu does the best job of a simple consistent desktop, and their installer "just works".Linux Mint is my favorite - it is 99.9\% Ubuntu, but out of the box they install DVD support, media codecs, Flash, Java, and have a more Windows-like start menu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211464</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Uzbek</author>
	<datestamp>1266694320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because it works out of box for most hardware out there. Also, many things are very intuitive, such as app installation, system configuration and location of files and folders.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because it works out of box for most hardware out there .
Also , many things are very intuitive , such as app installation , system configuration and location of files and folders .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because it works out of box for most hardware out there.
Also, many things are very intuitive, such as app installation, system configuration and location of files and folders.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217276</id>
	<title>To be realistic...</title>
	<author>beauman</author>
	<datestamp>1266750060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hi! I wanted to discuss this for a long time, so thank you for asking this question! I have been thinking a lot
about the question, if Linux is ready for non-techy people. I came to the conclusion, that it is not.

I lately started writing two wikis about installing Ubuntu:
<a href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Aspire1810TZ/Karmic" title="ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Aspire1810TZ/Karmic</a> [ubuntu.com] and <a href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook4-1/Karmic" title="ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook4-1/Karmic</a> [ubuntu.com]

Both the MB and the Aspire Netbook are very popular laptops. The size of the wikis tells you, how much tweaking you have to do,
to get it half-descent to work (The mic of the netbook won't work anyway).

After discussing the subject "documenting Linux installations" in the Ubuntu forums, I had the impression, that most people (or kids?) really think that
a discussion thread in a forum serves as a installation documentation.

What makes Linux not recommendable for non tech-interested people is for example, that when you have to compile drivers manually into the kernel (like for the Intel GMA 450 on the EeePC), your system will be broken after a kernel update.

Also, the quality of Linux software is often not that good. This is true for both free and closed source software (Flash is lame, skype has a lot of problems with audio and video devices, the login screen after hibernating the system is buggy,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)

In conclusion, I am not recommending Linux at all to the real world people.

Friendly regards, beauman</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi !
I wanted to discuss this for a long time , so thank you for asking this question !
I have been thinking a lot about the question , if Linux is ready for non-techy people .
I came to the conclusion , that it is not .
I lately started writing two wikis about installing Ubuntu : https : //help.ubuntu.com/community/Aspire1810TZ/Karmic [ ubuntu.com ] and https : //help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook4-1/Karmic [ ubuntu.com ] Both the MB and the Aspire Netbook are very popular laptops .
The size of the wikis tells you , how much tweaking you have to do , to get it half-descent to work ( The mic of the netbook wo n't work anyway ) .
After discussing the subject " documenting Linux installations " in the Ubuntu forums , I had the impression , that most people ( or kids ?
) really think that a discussion thread in a forum serves as a installation documentation .
What makes Linux not recommendable for non tech-interested people is for example , that when you have to compile drivers manually into the kernel ( like for the Intel GMA 450 on the EeePC ) , your system will be broken after a kernel update .
Also , the quality of Linux software is often not that good .
This is true for both free and closed source software ( Flash is lame , skype has a lot of problems with audio and video devices , the login screen after hibernating the system is buggy , ... ) In conclusion , I am not recommending Linux at all to the real world people .
Friendly regards , beauman</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi!
I wanted to discuss this for a long time, so thank you for asking this question!
I have been thinking a lot
about the question, if Linux is ready for non-techy people.
I came to the conclusion, that it is not.
I lately started writing two wikis about installing Ubuntu:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Aspire1810TZ/Karmic [ubuntu.com] and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook4-1/Karmic [ubuntu.com]

Both the MB and the Aspire Netbook are very popular laptops.
The size of the wikis tells you, how much tweaking you have to do,
to get it half-descent to work (The mic of the netbook won't work anyway).
After discussing the subject "documenting Linux installations" in the Ubuntu forums, I had the impression, that most people (or kids?
) really think that
a discussion thread in a forum serves as a installation documentation.
What makes Linux not recommendable for non tech-interested people is for example, that when you have to compile drivers manually into the kernel (like for the Intel GMA 450 on the EeePC), your system will be broken after a kernel update.
Also, the quality of Linux software is often not that good.
This is true for both free and closed source software (Flash is lame, skype has a lot of problems with audio and video devices, the login screen after hibernating the system is buggy, ...)

In conclusion, I am not recommending Linux at all to the real world people.
Friendly regards, beauman</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212460</id>
	<title>Re:Another often overlooked candidate</title>
	<author>Perp Atuitie</author>
	<datestamp>1266656580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the best choices, and definitely worth a close look. Great control center, small but helpful community, "just works" approach to software. I've installed it for 3 total computerphobes and have been almost disappointed by the lack of "support" calls once the initial settling in was over. PCLOS is maybe a couple weeks away from its new release with KDE4.4, which will require a rare reinstall, so if you can wait for that, all the better. There are also community versions with LXDE and other lightweight desktop alternatives if you want it even simpler.

It's not built on Debian, though. It uses RPMs with an apt/synaptic interface. The one possible disadvantage is that the repos have "only" around 12,000 apps available. Since the distro is designed as an integrated whole, installing outside packages is discouraged, which could be an advantage for the folks the OP describes -- everything they're remotely likely to want is there and they don't have to worry about incompatibilities, dependencies, and all the rest.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the best choices , and definitely worth a close look .
Great control center , small but helpful community , " just works " approach to software .
I 've installed it for 3 total computerphobes and have been almost disappointed by the lack of " support " calls once the initial settling in was over .
PCLOS is maybe a couple weeks away from its new release with KDE4.4 , which will require a rare reinstall , so if you can wait for that , all the better .
There are also community versions with LXDE and other lightweight desktop alternatives if you want it even simpler .
It 's not built on Debian , though .
It uses RPMs with an apt/synaptic interface .
The one possible disadvantage is that the repos have " only " around 12,000 apps available .
Since the distro is designed as an integrated whole , installing outside packages is discouraged , which could be an advantage for the folks the OP describes -- everything they 're remotely likely to want is there and they do n't have to worry about incompatibilities , dependencies , and all the rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the best choices, and definitely worth a close look.
Great control center, small but helpful community, "just works" approach to software.
I've installed it for 3 total computerphobes and have been almost disappointed by the lack of "support" calls once the initial settling in was over.
PCLOS is maybe a couple weeks away from its new release with KDE4.4, which will require a rare reinstall, so if you can wait for that, all the better.
There are also community versions with LXDE and other lightweight desktop alternatives if you want it even simpler.
It's not built on Debian, though.
It uses RPMs with an apt/synaptic interface.
The one possible disadvantage is that the repos have "only" around 12,000 apps available.
Since the distro is designed as an integrated whole, installing outside packages is discouraged, which could be an advantage for the folks the OP describes -- everything they're remotely likely to want is there and they don't have to worry about incompatibilities, dependencies, and all the rest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Definitely, since this person is hardly in a position to really do much in the way of support:</p><blockquote><div><p>Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?
</p><p>
And what's with their preoccupation with making it look like Windows?
</p><p>
Suggestion: either give them opensuse or give them a mac.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Definitely , since this person is hardly in a position to really do much in the way of support : Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs Not to be too mean , but what 's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC ?
And what 's with their preoccupation with making it look like Windows ?
Suggestion : either give them opensuse or give them a mac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Definitely, since this person is hardly in a position to really do much in the way of support:Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs

Not to be too mean, but what's so hard about getting linux to run properly on a PC?
And what's with their preoccupation with making it look like Windows?
Suggestion: either give them opensuse or give them a mac.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215846</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266685020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Us linux users are notorious defensive of our operating systems.I appologize if we seem harsh. My suggestion would be linux mint. Same packages as ubuntu, a bit more polish, and drivers/codecs to do most proprietary stuff out of the box, you can change the appearance fairly easily, and you can create nice bit shortcuts on the desktop for everything they need. Try it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Us linux users are notorious defensive of our operating systems.I appologize if we seem harsh .
My suggestion would be linux mint .
Same packages as ubuntu , a bit more polish , and drivers/codecs to do most proprietary stuff out of the box , you can change the appearance fairly easily , and you can create nice bit shortcuts on the desktop for everything they need .
Try it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Us linux users are notorious defensive of our operating systems.I appologize if we seem harsh.
My suggestion would be linux mint.
Same packages as ubuntu, a bit more polish, and drivers/codecs to do most proprietary stuff out of the box, you can change the appearance fairly easily, and you can create nice bit shortcuts on the desktop for everything they need.
Try it out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217338</id>
	<title>Making it look like Windows</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1266751560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He wants to make it look like Windows because the users want a consistent computing experience no matter where they go. This is a good thing for non-slashdot types.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He wants to make it look like Windows because the users want a consistent computing experience no matter where they go .
This is a good thing for non-slashdot types .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He wants to make it look like Windows because the users want a consistent computing experience no matter where they go.
This is a good thing for non-slashdot types.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212184</id>
	<title>FreeBSD-style Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266698160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give me a Linux distro that offers the hardware support that Linux has but has the polished userland that FreeBSD has, the ease of use of the ports system, the clean src tree that builds without trauma, and a simple installation with minimal fluff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give me a Linux distro that offers the hardware support that Linux has but has the polished userland that FreeBSD has , the ease of use of the ports system , the clean src tree that builds without trauma , and a simple installation with minimal fluff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give me a Linux distro that offers the hardware support that Linux has but has the polished userland that FreeBSD has, the ease of use of the ports system, the clean src tree that builds without trauma, and a simple installation with minimal fluff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213106</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>Teun</author>
	<datestamp>1266660720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The average consumer wouldn't know the difference between Firefox and IE or Thunderbird and OE.<p>
A media file is just that, you double click it and it plays, nobody cares for the name of the application playing it.<br>
Even for a word processor or tool to display a PDF or PPS the name&amp;make are not important, it should just open the document, nothing else.</p><p>
But after a few weeks or months they will realise their support calls are much less frequent than with Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The average consumer would n't know the difference between Firefox and IE or Thunderbird and OE .
A media file is just that , you double click it and it plays , nobody cares for the name of the application playing it .
Even for a word processor or tool to display a PDF or PPS the name&amp;make are not important , it should just open the document , nothing else .
But after a few weeks or months they will realise their support calls are much less frequent than with Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The average consumer wouldn't know the difference between Firefox and IE or Thunderbird and OE.
A media file is just that, you double click it and it plays, nobody cares for the name of the application playing it.
Even for a word processor or tool to display a PDF or PPS the name&amp;make are not important, it should just open the document, nothing else.
But after a few weeks or months they will realise their support calls are much less frequent than with Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31216646</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266694680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded.  My 77 year old dad uses Ubuntu just fine.  Granted, he checks his email and plays Yahoo games, and chats with his internet friends around the world.  He actually likes the different timezone profiles too, so if he wants to see what time it is in New Zealand he just checks on the panel instead of calculating it from the paper he has posted on his desk.</p><p>I also installed Ubuntu on a friend's malware infested XP box, and she <i>loved</i> the desktop effects.  Amazingly the 3d cube desktop and wobbly windows ran without a hitch on her 256 MB of crappy ram, onboard default graphics card.  After she was done playing with the effects I showed her where OpenOffice was and she got right back to her school work, still giggling when the windows quiver while dragging them.</p><p>Ubuntu isn't for everyone, as I've also had some folks who are too ingrained into the MS way of doing things (like literally equating internet with the dreaded Blue E), and I wouldn't expect them to be savvy enough to switch their user agent to access an IE only site even if I install the add-on for Firefox and put a big shiny E button on the toolbar to do it with.  But as long as I convert one person at a time, I feel satisfied.  The best is when I get called to fix someone's computer who HATES Windows, because I love giving them an alternative.  And they always love the price.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded .
My 77 year old dad uses Ubuntu just fine .
Granted , he checks his email and plays Yahoo games , and chats with his internet friends around the world .
He actually likes the different timezone profiles too , so if he wants to see what time it is in New Zealand he just checks on the panel instead of calculating it from the paper he has posted on his desk.I also installed Ubuntu on a friend 's malware infested XP box , and she loved the desktop effects .
Amazingly the 3d cube desktop and wobbly windows ran without a hitch on her 256 MB of crappy ram , onboard default graphics card .
After she was done playing with the effects I showed her where OpenOffice was and she got right back to her school work , still giggling when the windows quiver while dragging them.Ubuntu is n't for everyone , as I 've also had some folks who are too ingrained into the MS way of doing things ( like literally equating internet with the dreaded Blue E ) , and I would n't expect them to be savvy enough to switch their user agent to access an IE only site even if I install the add-on for Firefox and put a big shiny E button on the toolbar to do it with .
But as long as I convert one person at a time , I feel satisfied .
The best is when I get called to fix someone 's computer who HATES Windows , because I love giving them an alternative .
And they always love the price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded.
My 77 year old dad uses Ubuntu just fine.
Granted, he checks his email and plays Yahoo games, and chats with his internet friends around the world.
He actually likes the different timezone profiles too, so if he wants to see what time it is in New Zealand he just checks on the panel instead of calculating it from the paper he has posted on his desk.I also installed Ubuntu on a friend's malware infested XP box, and she loved the desktop effects.
Amazingly the 3d cube desktop and wobbly windows ran without a hitch on her 256 MB of crappy ram, onboard default graphics card.
After she was done playing with the effects I showed her where OpenOffice was and she got right back to her school work, still giggling when the windows quiver while dragging them.Ubuntu isn't for everyone, as I've also had some folks who are too ingrained into the MS way of doing things (like literally equating internet with the dreaded Blue E), and I wouldn't expect them to be savvy enough to switch their user agent to access an IE only site even if I install the add-on for Firefox and put a big shiny E button on the toolbar to do it with.
But as long as I convert one person at a time, I feel satisfied.
The best is when I get called to fix someone's computer who HATES Windows, because I love giving them an alternative.
And they always love the price.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219696</id>
	<title>The best "Linux For Non-Techies" is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266777300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...Windows 7.  Immeasurably so in the situation you're describing.  Seriously dude/dudette, let's deconstruct your post:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs</p></div><p>Ok, so you're a "noob" yourself.  As others have noted, you'd be setting yourself up for an endless littany of cries for help from these soon-to-be-ex-friends and family, and the most help you'll be able to give them when they can't get, say, their wireless networking working is a shrug.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7.</p></div><p>I'd think they'd have more to say about that than you, but I'll bite: Why?  What possible reason do these "non-techies" have to be running the most "non-techie"-unfriendly OS in existence?</p><p>Or is this rather an attempt by you to show off your new-found geek cred?  Dude, if so, you're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment when your friends and family tell you to put Windows back.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The catch is that these guys don't understand or care much about computers</p></div><p>And hence they should not be running Linux.  Fanbois will of course tell you different, but the sad truth is that Linux is still not ready for Joe Schmoe's desktop.  Period.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible.</p></div><p>I'm just going to take an hour-long laugh break here...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...ok I'm back.  Let us continue:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a bother</p></div><p>No it wouldn't, I just did it.  Sure as heck not as much of a pain and bother that WinXP-&gt;Linux is.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>which is a great opportunity for Linux</p></div><p>Ok, so your concern is "opportunities for Linux", as opposed to "what's best for my friends and family".  Way to order those priorities.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> I'm not too concerned about software</p> </div><p>Great, so Windows 7 should do them just fine.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface</p> </div><p>...?  Um, at that level all modern OSes are pretty much the same.  Well, except when you need to do something non-basic in Linux, when your friends will have to open up a bash shell.  Hehehe, yeah, good luck being phone support when that happens!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?</p></div><p>=8-0</p><p>Dude, seriously, save yourself a lifetime of hurt and DO NOT DO THIS.  You're thinking "Hmm, I hope they like the curtains" when you need to be thinking "Gee, I hope they don't notice that the house is on fire."  What you're considering here will benefit neither you, Linux, nor your friends and family.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Windows 7 .
Immeasurably so in the situation you 're describing .
Seriously dude/dudette , let 's deconstruct your post : Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCsOk , so you 're a " noob " yourself .
As others have noted , you 'd be setting yourself up for an endless littany of cries for help from these soon-to-be-ex-friends and family , and the most help you 'll be able to give them when they ca n't get , say , their wireless networking working is a shrug.I 'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7.I 'd think they 'd have more to say about that than you , but I 'll bite : Why ?
What possible reason do these " non-techies " have to be running the most " non-techie " -unfriendly OS in existence ? Or is this rather an attempt by you to show off your new-found geek cred ?
Dude , if so , you 're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment when your friends and family tell you to put Windows back.The catch is that these guys do n't understand or care much about computersAnd hence they should not be running Linux .
Fanbois will of course tell you different , but the sad truth is that Linux is still not ready for Joe Schmoe 's desktop .
Period.so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible.I 'm just going to take an hour-long laugh break here... ...ok I 'm back .
Let us continue : even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a botherNo it would n't , I just did it .
Sure as heck not as much of a pain and bother that WinXP- &gt; Linux is.which is a great opportunity for LinuxOk , so your concern is " opportunities for Linux " , as opposed to " what 's best for my friends and family " .
Way to order those priorities .
I 'm not too concerned about software Great , so Windows 7 should do them just fine.What I 'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface ... ?
Um , at that level all modern OSes are pretty much the same .
Well , except when you need to do something non-basic in Linux , when your friends will have to open up a bash shell .
Hehehe , yeah , good luck being phone support when that happens ! Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead ? = 8-0Dude , seriously , save yourself a lifetime of hurt and DO NOT DO THIS .
You 're thinking " Hmm , I hope they like the curtains " when you need to be thinking " Gee , I hope they do n't notice that the house is on fire .
" What you 're considering here will benefit neither you , Linux , nor your friends and family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Windows 7.
Immeasurably so in the situation you're describing.
Seriously dude/dudette, let's deconstruct your post:Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCsOk, so you're a "noob" yourself.
As others have noted, you'd be setting yourself up for an endless littany of cries for help from these soon-to-be-ex-friends and family, and the most help you'll be able to give them when they can't get, say, their wireless networking working is a shrug.I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7.I'd think they'd have more to say about that than you, but I'll bite: Why?
What possible reason do these "non-techies" have to be running the most "non-techie"-unfriendly OS in existence?Or is this rather an attempt by you to show off your new-found geek cred?
Dude, if so, you're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment when your friends and family tell you to put Windows back.The catch is that these guys don't understand or care much about computersAnd hence they should not be running Linux.
Fanbois will of course tell you different, but the sad truth is that Linux is still not ready for Joe Schmoe's desktop.
Period.so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible.I'm just going to take an hour-long laugh break here... ...ok I'm back.
Let us continue:even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a botherNo it wouldn't, I just did it.
Sure as heck not as much of a pain and bother that WinXP-&gt;Linux is.which is a great opportunity for LinuxOk, so your concern is "opportunities for Linux", as opposed to "what's best for my friends and family".
Way to order those priorities.
I'm not too concerned about software Great, so Windows 7 should do them just fine.What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface ...?
Um, at that level all modern OSes are pretty much the same.
Well, except when you need to do something non-basic in Linux, when your friends will have to open up a bash shell.
Hehehe, yeah, good luck being phone support when that happens!Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?=8-0Dude, seriously, save yourself a lifetime of hurt and DO NOT DO THIS.
You're thinking "Hmm, I hope they like the curtains" when you need to be thinking "Gee, I hope they don't notice that the house is on fire.
"  What you're considering here will benefit neither you, Linux, nor your friends and family.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212598</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1266657480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really. I've switched pretty much all of them over to VLC, Firefox and Thunderbird by now. Most of them don't use Office at all, or for the little they do, OOo should be OK. I'm more concerned about games actually, it's hard to find even classics (Scrabble...) for Linux. And IM+Skype, but I'm fairly confident I'll find something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really .
I 've switched pretty much all of them over to VLC , Firefox and Thunderbird by now .
Most of them do n't use Office at all , or for the little they do , OOo should be OK. I 'm more concerned about games actually , it 's hard to find even classics ( Scrabble... ) for Linux .
And IM + Skype , but I 'm fairly confident I 'll find something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really.
I've switched pretty much all of them over to VLC, Firefox and Thunderbird by now.
Most of them don't use Office at all, or for the little they do, OOo should be OK. I'm more concerned about games actually, it's hard to find even classics (Scrabble...) for Linux.
And IM+Skype, but I'm fairly confident I'll find something.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211586</id>
	<title>Linux Mint?</title>
	<author>Mystery00</author>
	<datestamp>1266694920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I can ever be bothered installing and fighting (it literally is) Linux again I would probably give this distro a shot. http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php<br><br>Maybe others can lend their experience with it since I can't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I can ever be bothered installing and fighting ( it literally is ) Linux again I would probably give this distro a shot .
http : //www.linuxmint.com/index.phpMaybe others can lend their experience with it since I ca n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I can ever be bothered installing and fighting (it literally is) Linux again I would probably give this distro a shot.
http://www.linuxmint.com/index.phpMaybe others can lend their experience with it since I can't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213290</id>
	<title>Re:My biggest problem was</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266662040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's exactly it, the people that move to linux should only be those that are willing to go the extra mile because they are sick and tired of windows. Without the windows apps that can't be ported or replaced, a user will use the same amount of effort to learn to use a simple linux distro like ubuntu or windows. There are those that complain that they'll have to answer questions for newbie linux users, well have you ever tried for a newbie windows user? That is true hell<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... For those that don't want to make the move, don't force them, if they don't consider malware and viruses a nuisance they sure as hell won't bother to learn something different.<br>Oh yeah, for the obarthelemy, ubuntu has shown the best results so far, and has a very large community, the best enviroment for a linux newbie to start in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's exactly it , the people that move to linux should only be those that are willing to go the extra mile because they are sick and tired of windows .
Without the windows apps that ca n't be ported or replaced , a user will use the same amount of effort to learn to use a simple linux distro like ubuntu or windows .
There are those that complain that they 'll have to answer questions for newbie linux users , well have you ever tried for a newbie windows user ?
That is true hell ... For those that do n't want to make the move , do n't force them , if they do n't consider malware and viruses a nuisance they sure as hell wo n't bother to learn something different.Oh yeah , for the obarthelemy , ubuntu has shown the best results so far , and has a very large community , the best enviroment for a linux newbie to start in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's exactly it, the people that move to linux should only be those that are willing to go the extra mile because they are sick and tired of windows.
Without the windows apps that can't be ported or replaced, a user will use the same amount of effort to learn to use a simple linux distro like ubuntu or windows.
There are those that complain that they'll have to answer questions for newbie linux users, well have you ever tried for a newbie windows user?
That is true hell ... For those that don't want to make the move, don't force them, if they don't consider malware and viruses a nuisance they sure as hell won't bother to learn something different.Oh yeah, for the obarthelemy, ubuntu has shown the best results so far, and has a very large community, the best enviroment for a linux newbie to start in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31226408</id>
	<title>Is Linux really that much easier?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266779220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As other posters have mentioned, all of these Linux distros have great support communities? Why? Because  they are not as simplified for the "non-techie," and we need a way to figure them out. People bash Windows all the time, but whenever there is a problem with it, THERE IS SOMEONE TO CALL!!</p><p>There is nothing worse than a Linux diehard who explains that the solution to a problem involves recompiling the kernel, and then wonders why people call Linux non-intuitive.</p><p>As I am posting as anonymous, I will clear up any confusion now. I have only actually seen the above event once (here on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. actually), but see that sort of thing all the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As other posters have mentioned , all of these Linux distros have great support communities ?
Why ? Because they are not as simplified for the " non-techie , " and we need a way to figure them out .
People bash Windows all the time , but whenever there is a problem with it , THERE IS SOMEONE TO CALL !
! There is nothing worse than a Linux diehard who explains that the solution to a problem involves recompiling the kernel , and then wonders why people call Linux non-intuitive.As I am posting as anonymous , I will clear up any confusion now .
I have only actually seen the above event once ( here on / .
actually ) , but see that sort of thing all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As other posters have mentioned, all of these Linux distros have great support communities?
Why? Because  they are not as simplified for the "non-techie," and we need a way to figure them out.
People bash Windows all the time, but whenever there is a problem with it, THERE IS SOMEONE TO CALL!
!There is nothing worse than a Linux diehard who explains that the solution to a problem involves recompiling the kernel, and then wonders why people call Linux non-intuitive.As I am posting as anonymous, I will clear up any confusion now.
I have only actually seen the above event once (here on /.
actually), but see that sort of thing all the time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31215804</id>
	<title>Linux N00b here...</title>
	<author>pleasenopuffin</author>
	<datestamp>1266684540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I consider myself a Linux noob, as I have only had a year experience with a distribution I have found satisfactory. I have had experience with it since 1998, but as an average non-enthusiastic user I did not use it regularly until this past year.
I bought a Dell9 with Ubuntu, and I have had the most minimal amount of problems with it of all distributions (having used Suse, Mandriva/Mandrake, Fedora, Redhat, and Ubuntu). It does have its occasional issue, but nothing that requires much terminal use.

So how does the "average user" feel about linux? Not too good. As far as ease of use for someone with little experience, I have yet to find a distribution that compare even closely to OS X or Windows. It's getting there, but it still has a long way to go.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I consider myself a Linux noob , as I have only had a year experience with a distribution I have found satisfactory .
I have had experience with it since 1998 , but as an average non-enthusiastic user I did not use it regularly until this past year .
I bought a Dell9 with Ubuntu , and I have had the most minimal amount of problems with it of all distributions ( having used Suse , Mandriva/Mandrake , Fedora , Redhat , and Ubuntu ) .
It does have its occasional issue , but nothing that requires much terminal use .
So how does the " average user " feel about linux ?
Not too good .
As far as ease of use for someone with little experience , I have yet to find a distribution that compare even closely to OS X or Windows .
It 's getting there , but it still has a long way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I consider myself a Linux noob, as I have only had a year experience with a distribution I have found satisfactory.
I have had experience with it since 1998, but as an average non-enthusiastic user I did not use it regularly until this past year.
I bought a Dell9 with Ubuntu, and I have had the most minimal amount of problems with it of all distributions (having used Suse, Mandriva/Mandrake, Fedora, Redhat, and Ubuntu).
It does have its occasional issue, but nothing that requires much terminal use.
So how does the "average user" feel about linux?
Not too good.
As far as ease of use for someone with little experience, I have yet to find a distribution that compare even closely to OS X or Windows.
It's getting there, but it still has a long way to go.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213852</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>HiThere</author>
	<datestamp>1266666420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As I understand it, Mint was based on Debian, switched over to being based on Ubuntu, and then switched back to being based on Debian.  So what it's based on depends on which version you get.</p><p>N.B.:  As I understand it, Mint is a shallow alteration of either Debian or Ubuntu.  A bit of eye-candy change, a few codecs, etc.  When it's based on Debian it's based on either unstable or testing (forget which) and then hand tuned.</p><p>I used one release for a week, but I didn't notice any major improvement over Debian (I think that was what I'd been using) and switched back.  Perhaps if I'd been into audio or video I'd have noticed more difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As I understand it , Mint was based on Debian , switched over to being based on Ubuntu , and then switched back to being based on Debian .
So what it 's based on depends on which version you get.N.B .
: As I understand it , Mint is a shallow alteration of either Debian or Ubuntu .
A bit of eye-candy change , a few codecs , etc .
When it 's based on Debian it 's based on either unstable or testing ( forget which ) and then hand tuned.I used one release for a week , but I did n't notice any major improvement over Debian ( I think that was what I 'd been using ) and switched back .
Perhaps if I 'd been into audio or video I 'd have noticed more difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I understand it, Mint was based on Debian, switched over to being based on Ubuntu, and then switched back to being based on Debian.
So what it's based on depends on which version you get.N.B.
:  As I understand it, Mint is a shallow alteration of either Debian or Ubuntu.
A bit of eye-candy change, a few codecs, etc.
When it's based on Debian it's based on either unstable or testing (forget which) and then hand tuned.I used one release for a week, but I didn't notice any major improvement over Debian (I think that was what I'd been using) and switched back.
Perhaps if I'd been into audio or video I'd have noticed more difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212864</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>timothyfcampbell</author>
	<datestamp>1266659100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Install Ubuntu, then head over to Phrank's Ubuntu Blog article "XpGnome - Make Linux Look like Windows XP" (http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14): download and run the script, and voila! Ubuntu XP. Note: Karmic Koala (Ubuntu 9.10) made changes to gdm, so the script doesn't change the login wallpaper, but if you're setting up single users then set up the machine to auto login and your user wont mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Install Ubuntu , then head over to Phrank 's Ubuntu Blog article " XpGnome - Make Linux Look like Windows XP " ( http : //ubuntu.online02.com/node/14 ) : download and run the script , and voila !
Ubuntu XP .
Note : Karmic Koala ( Ubuntu 9.10 ) made changes to gdm , so the script does n't change the login wallpaper , but if you 're setting up single users then set up the machine to auto login and your user wont mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Install Ubuntu, then head over to Phrank's Ubuntu Blog article "XpGnome - Make Linux Look like Windows XP" (http://ubuntu.online02.com/node/14): download and run the script, and voila!
Ubuntu XP.
Note: Karmic Koala (Ubuntu 9.10) made changes to gdm, so the script doesn't change the login wallpaper, but if you're setting up single users then set up the machine to auto login and your user wont mind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31219306</id>
	<title>openSUSE is a great stable OS choice</title>
	<author>zridling</author>
	<datestamp>1266775440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The great thing about openSUSE is that with KDE it is super stable, great for programming, plays well with Windows (if that's what you want), and is easily upgradeable in place. I use it on a 1999 and 2001 machine on top of my current i7. Highly recommended. Check thegsblog.com for helpful links.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The great thing about openSUSE is that with KDE it is super stable , great for programming , plays well with Windows ( if that 's what you want ) , and is easily upgradeable in place .
I use it on a 1999 and 2001 machine on top of my current i7 .
Highly recommended .
Check thegsblog.com for helpful links .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The great thing about openSUSE is that with KDE it is super stable, great for programming, plays well with Windows (if that's what you want), and is easily upgradeable in place.
I use it on a 1999 and 2001 machine on top of my current i7.
Highly recommended.
Check thegsblog.com for helpful links.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211544</id>
	<title>I prefer Fedora</title>
	<author>Jim Hall</author>
	<datestamp>1266694680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speaking for myself, I prefer <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/" title="fedoraproject.org">Fedora Linux.</a> [fedoraproject.org] I find the look and feel is set up to be pretty close to Windows, enough so that sometimes people who look over my shoulder and see me using it assume I'm running Windows. If your family is moving from Windows, this might be a good choice.</p><p>Actually, my wife really likes Fedora, and she's a definite non-geek. It's easy enough for her to use, which (for her) is mostly email, web, text processor, and a few other minor apps.</p><p>I used to run Linux at work for several years, and ran Fedora. It's got the tools that replicate the functionality of Windows. (Unfortunately, I've been asked to move to Windows, <a href="http://linuxinexile.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com">at least for work.</a> [blogspot.com] Ironically, I find Windows very confusing to use - Linux just seems so much easier to use.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speaking for myself , I prefer Fedora Linux .
[ fedoraproject.org ] I find the look and feel is set up to be pretty close to Windows , enough so that sometimes people who look over my shoulder and see me using it assume I 'm running Windows .
If your family is moving from Windows , this might be a good choice.Actually , my wife really likes Fedora , and she 's a definite non-geek .
It 's easy enough for her to use , which ( for her ) is mostly email , web , text processor , and a few other minor apps.I used to run Linux at work for several years , and ran Fedora .
It 's got the tools that replicate the functionality of Windows .
( Unfortunately , I 've been asked to move to Windows , at least for work .
[ blogspot.com ] Ironically , I find Windows very confusing to use - Linux just seems so much easier to use .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speaking for myself, I prefer Fedora Linux.
[fedoraproject.org] I find the look and feel is set up to be pretty close to Windows, enough so that sometimes people who look over my shoulder and see me using it assume I'm running Windows.
If your family is moving from Windows, this might be a good choice.Actually, my wife really likes Fedora, and she's a definite non-geek.
It's easy enough for her to use, which (for her) is mostly email, web, text processor, and a few other minor apps.I used to run Linux at work for several years, and ran Fedora.
It's got the tools that replicate the functionality of Windows.
(Unfortunately, I've been asked to move to Windows, at least for work.
[blogspot.com] Ironically, I find Windows very confusing to use - Linux just seems so much easier to use.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212084</id>
	<title>Get away from the defensive standpoint!</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1266697620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is perhaps the core problem: You seem to place yourself in a position where Linux is bad, and one would have to defend it.
The problem is, that people, especially your non-techie friends, will pick this view up and make it their own. That this isn&rsquo;t good, should be clear.</p><p>Why not be honest: Linux really is pretty cool, isn&rsquo; it? Runs on pretty much every computer without trouble. Especially on old systems it runs way better than Windows. And look at all the cool things it offers that Windows will never have:</p><ul>
<li>You can support them remotely, trough SSH. Write little scripts that makes their everyday problems go away.</li><li>Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin/Kopete, Amarok, a filemanager, Open Office maybe, and they are are happy. Those are mainly Linux programs anyway.</li><li>Complete updates never were easier. One click system updates of everything. And if you get in trouble, you have the biggest community possible. Hell, you can even write a mail to the guy who wrote that specific piece of the program, and tell him your opinion. Try that on Windows! ^^</li></ul><p>There is no need to be defensive with Linux. None. Different does not mean bad.<br>
There without exception always is a part in every change, that feels bad. That&rsquo;s how we humans are wired. Like when you start doing something for the first time, and it feels bad without any logical reason. But after a time you wouldn&rsquo;t want to miss it.
That phase would be there too, if one transitioned from Linux to Windows.</p><p>Now the important point For people to get over that hill, they have to <em>know</em> and have a safe feeling, that this is a good choice, why that is so, and there is just a transition phase to overcome. So your job is, to be secure in yourself, so that they can pick that up too.</p><p>An example:</p><p> <strong>Wrong:</strong> <br>
You: Sorry, I will convert your PC to Linux. Don&rsquo;t worry about the problems, they are not that bad.<br>
Friend: No! I don&rsquo;t want to have problems!<br>
You: But it is better because of X. I&rsquo;ll install it anyway.<br>
(later)<br>
Friend: Hey, that shit you installed me is bad and caused problems! You suck!</p><p> <strong>Right:</strong> <br>
You: Hey, I got a great solution for your virus and usage problems! Look here (*show compiz video*), doen&rsquo;t that look really cool?<br>
And viruses can&rsquo;t even attack you with it! It doesn&rsquo;t have all those stupid problems that annoy you on Windows. But I don&rsquo;t know if you can live without that.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>
Friend: Hey, sounds great. Can I try it?<br>
Yu: Maybe. If you don&rsquo;t expect it to be Windows. You know: Just as crappy.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>
Friend: Please!<br>
You: Allright. I&rsquo;ll install it, so you can try it out.<br>
(later)<br>
Friend: Hey, I got this problem, but I&rsquo;m used to it, and don&rsquo;t want to give up and go back to Windows! Can you help me?<br>
You: Sure. Can you double click on the icon on the desktop that says &ldquo;Let me look at your computer&rdquo;, and read the number it shows to me?<br>
Friend: Yes it&rsquo;s $ipAddress.<br>
You: Ok, I&rsquo;m quickly checking what&rsquo;s wrong. A OK, found it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>
Friend: Thank you. And hey: Your new Windows Linux is pretty cool.</p><p>You get the drift.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is perhaps the core problem : You seem to place yourself in a position where Linux is bad , and one would have to defend it .
The problem is , that people , especially your non-techie friends , will pick this view up and make it their own .
That this isn    t good , should be clear.Why not be honest : Linux really is pretty cool , isn    it ?
Runs on pretty much every computer without trouble .
Especially on old systems it runs way better than Windows .
And look at all the cool things it offers that Windows will never have : You can support them remotely , trough SSH .
Write little scripts that makes their everyday problems go away.Firefox , Thunderbird , Pidgin/Kopete , Amarok , a filemanager , Open Office maybe , and they are are happy .
Those are mainly Linux programs anyway.Complete updates never were easier .
One click system updates of everything .
And if you get in trouble , you have the biggest community possible .
Hell , you can even write a mail to the guy who wrote that specific piece of the program , and tell him your opinion .
Try that on Windows !
^ ^ There is no need to be defensive with Linux .
None. Different does not mean bad .
There without exception always is a part in every change , that feels bad .
That    s how we humans are wired .
Like when you start doing something for the first time , and it feels bad without any logical reason .
But after a time you wouldn    t want to miss it .
That phase would be there too , if one transitioned from Linux to Windows.Now the important point For people to get over that hill , they have to know and have a safe feeling , that this is a good choice , why that is so , and there is just a transition phase to overcome .
So your job is , to be secure in yourself , so that they can pick that up too.An example : Wrong : You : Sorry , I will convert your PC to Linux .
Don    t worry about the problems , they are not that bad .
Friend : No !
I don    t want to have problems !
You : But it is better because of X. I    ll install it anyway .
( later ) Friend : Hey , that shit you installed me is bad and caused problems !
You suck !
Right : You : Hey , I got a great solution for your virus and usage problems !
Look here ( * show compiz video * ) , doen    t that look really cool ?
And viruses can    t even attack you with it !
It doesn    t have all those stupid problems that annoy you on Windows .
But I don    t know if you can live without that .
; ) Friend : Hey , sounds great .
Can I try it ?
Yu : Maybe .
If you don    t expect it to be Windows .
You know : Just as crappy .
; ) Friend : Please !
You : Allright .
I    ll install it , so you can try it out .
( later ) Friend : Hey , I got this problem , but I    m used to it , and don    t want to give up and go back to Windows !
Can you help me ?
You : Sure .
Can you double click on the icon on the desktop that says    Let me look at your computer    , and read the number it shows to me ?
Friend : Yes it    s $ ipAddress .
You : Ok , I    m quickly checking what    s wrong .
A OK , found it .
: ) Friend : Thank you .
And hey : Your new Windows Linux is pretty cool.You get the drift .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is perhaps the core problem: You seem to place yourself in a position where Linux is bad, and one would have to defend it.
The problem is, that people, especially your non-techie friends, will pick this view up and make it their own.
That this isn’t good, should be clear.Why not be honest: Linux really is pretty cool, isn’ it?
Runs on pretty much every computer without trouble.
Especially on old systems it runs way better than Windows.
And look at all the cool things it offers that Windows will never have:
You can support them remotely, trough SSH.
Write little scripts that makes their everyday problems go away.Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin/Kopete, Amarok, a filemanager, Open Office maybe, and they are are happy.
Those are mainly Linux programs anyway.Complete updates never were easier.
One click system updates of everything.
And if you get in trouble, you have the biggest community possible.
Hell, you can even write a mail to the guy who wrote that specific piece of the program, and tell him your opinion.
Try that on Windows!
^^There is no need to be defensive with Linux.
None. Different does not mean bad.
There without exception always is a part in every change, that feels bad.
That’s how we humans are wired.
Like when you start doing something for the first time, and it feels bad without any logical reason.
But after a time you wouldn’t want to miss it.
That phase would be there too, if one transitioned from Linux to Windows.Now the important point For people to get over that hill, they have to know and have a safe feeling, that this is a good choice, why that is so, and there is just a transition phase to overcome.
So your job is, to be secure in yourself, so that they can pick that up too.An example: Wrong: 
You: Sorry, I will convert your PC to Linux.
Don’t worry about the problems, they are not that bad.
Friend: No!
I don’t want to have problems!
You: But it is better because of X. I’ll install it anyway.
(later)
Friend: Hey, that shit you installed me is bad and caused problems!
You suck!
Right: 
You: Hey, I got a great solution for your virus and usage problems!
Look here (*show compiz video*), doen’t that look really cool?
And viruses can’t even attack you with it!
It doesn’t have all those stupid problems that annoy you on Windows.
But I don’t know if you can live without that.
;)
Friend: Hey, sounds great.
Can I try it?
Yu: Maybe.
If you don’t expect it to be Windows.
You know: Just as crappy.
;)
Friend: Please!
You: Allright.
I’ll install it, so you can try it out.
(later)
Friend: Hey, I got this problem, but I’m used to it, and don’t want to give up and go back to Windows!
Can you help me?
You: Sure.
Can you double click on the icon on the desktop that says “Let me look at your computer”, and read the number it shows to me?
Friend: Yes it’s $ipAddress.
You: Ok, I’m quickly checking what’s wrong.
A OK, found it.
:)
Friend: Thank you.
And hey: Your new Windows Linux is pretty cool.You get the drift.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</id>
	<title>Prepare for all</title>
	<author>tsa</author>
	<datestamp>1266694140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before you begin, ask the people you want to help if they are willing to try something else than MS software. They are probably quite familiar with Windows, Office, Outlook, and Media Player, and will have a hard time learning something new. That also means you will be asked a LOT of questions, mostly things that you can not even come up with because they are so logical to you. So: know what you get into before you begin!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before you begin , ask the people you want to help if they are willing to try something else than MS software .
They are probably quite familiar with Windows , Office , Outlook , and Media Player , and will have a hard time learning something new .
That also means you will be asked a LOT of questions , mostly things that you can not even come up with because they are so logical to you .
So : know what you get into before you begin !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before you begin, ask the people you want to help if they are willing to try something else than MS software.
They are probably quite familiar with Windows, Office, Outlook, and Media Player, and will have a hard time learning something new.
That also means you will be asked a LOT of questions, mostly things that you can not even come up with because they are so logical to you.
So: know what you get into before you begin!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212176</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Urza9814</author>
	<datestamp>1266698160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would have to say that, while Ubuntu is a good choice, I wouldn't do straight Ubuntu - I'd pick Kubuntu. Out of the box, Gnome doesn't look anything like Windows - it looks closer to OS X than anything. KDE is going to be a lot more like Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would have to say that , while Ubuntu is a good choice , I would n't do straight Ubuntu - I 'd pick Kubuntu .
Out of the box , Gnome does n't look anything like Windows - it looks closer to OS X than anything .
KDE is going to be a lot more like Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would have to say that, while Ubuntu is a good choice, I wouldn't do straight Ubuntu - I'd pick Kubuntu.
Out of the box, Gnome doesn't look anything like Windows - it looks closer to OS X than anything.
KDE is going to be a lot more like Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213656</id>
	<title>Kubuntu</title>
	<author>janwedekind</author>
	<datestamp>1266664680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would rather recommend <a href="http://kubuntu.org/" title="kubuntu.org">Kubuntu (KDE4 desktop)</a> [kubuntu.org] instead of Ubuntu (GNOME desktop). As far as I know KDE4 is mature now. Regardless whether you choose GNOME or KDE4, I would definitely recommend to get the desktop effects (Compiz) working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would rather recommend Kubuntu ( KDE4 desktop ) [ kubuntu.org ] instead of Ubuntu ( GNOME desktop ) .
As far as I know KDE4 is mature now .
Regardless whether you choose GNOME or KDE4 , I would definitely recommend to get the desktop effects ( Compiz ) working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would rather recommend Kubuntu (KDE4 desktop) [kubuntu.org] instead of Ubuntu (GNOME desktop).
As far as I know KDE4 is mature now.
Regardless whether you choose GNOME or KDE4, I would definitely recommend to get the desktop effects (Compiz) working.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31217058</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266745500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>UBUNTU IS NOT OUT OF THE BOX SIMILAR LOOK AND FEEL TO WINDOWS.<br><br>For starters you have 2 bars in the desktop. Everytime someone uses a machine where I have Ubuntu they ask me WHY??<br><br>And there are a *lot* of other small details.<br><br>No, adding useless Compiz effects won't make it better (so far the *only* useful Compiz effect I have seen is the Negative-screen).<br><br>There is however a gnome theme which can make the desktop similar to windows (with "my documents", "show desktop" and other icons). That might help your poor family when you shove Ubuntu into their throats.</htmltext>
<tokenext>UBUNTU IS NOT OUT OF THE BOX SIMILAR LOOK AND FEEL TO WINDOWS.For starters you have 2 bars in the desktop .
Everytime someone uses a machine where I have Ubuntu they ask me WHY ?
? And there are a * lot * of other small details.No , adding useless Compiz effects wo n't make it better ( so far the * only * useful Compiz effect I have seen is the Negative-screen ) .There is however a gnome theme which can make the desktop similar to windows ( with " my documents " , " show desktop " and other icons ) .
That might help your poor family when you shove Ubuntu into their throats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UBUNTU IS NOT OUT OF THE BOX SIMILAR LOOK AND FEEL TO WINDOWS.For starters you have 2 bars in the desktop.
Everytime someone uses a machine where I have Ubuntu they ask me WHY?
?And there are a *lot* of other small details.No, adding useless Compiz effects won't make it better (so far the *only* useful Compiz effect I have seen is the Negative-screen).There is however a gnome theme which can make the desktop similar to windows (with "my documents", "show desktop" and other icons).
That might help your poor family when you shove Ubuntu into their throats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31218174</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1266764940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Asking people is not enough.</p><p>Many people will say "yes" without knowing what they are getting into, thinking it will be just like windows.</p><p>You will forever be answering questions and giving help long after it has stopped being fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Asking people is not enough.Many people will say " yes " without knowing what they are getting into , thinking it will be just like windows.You will forever be answering questions and giving help long after it has stopped being fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Asking people is not enough.Many people will say "yes" without knowing what they are getting into, thinking it will be just like windows.You will forever be answering questions and giving help long after it has stopped being fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211780</id>
	<title>Lots of Options</title>
	<author>Captain Jack Taylor</author>
	<datestamp>1266695820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My mother uses Ubuntu and likes it. I've also found Puppy and Sabayon to be great distros to give to grandparents, kids, and other people with no computer knowledge. Heck, I use Ubuntu MYSELF, because I like the fact that it's easy to use on the surface, but lets me hack away at things deep down. Mint is a good alternative to Ubuntu, but I find the Ubuntu guys are starting to outpace them. Good distro though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My mother uses Ubuntu and likes it .
I 've also found Puppy and Sabayon to be great distros to give to grandparents , kids , and other people with no computer knowledge .
Heck , I use Ubuntu MYSELF , because I like the fact that it 's easy to use on the surface , but lets me hack away at things deep down .
Mint is a good alternative to Ubuntu , but I find the Ubuntu guys are starting to outpace them .
Good distro though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mother uses Ubuntu and likes it.
I've also found Puppy and Sabayon to be great distros to give to grandparents, kids, and other people with no computer knowledge.
Heck, I use Ubuntu MYSELF, because I like the fact that it's easy to use on the surface, but lets me hack away at things deep down.
Mint is a good alternative to Ubuntu, but I find the Ubuntu guys are starting to outpace them.
Good distro though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212808</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have on and off been trying Linux distros for the past 10 years.  In the work environment of course RedHat soon stood out as the standard, but is not suitable for a Windows escapee.</p><p>Last year, after much research, I tried Ubuntu. What I found was a swamp of missing drivers and broken functionality. The forums are great and the folks don't bite your head off as with some tech-nerd sites/products (the "RTFM n00b!!" thing).</p><p>And then, epiphany: I discovered LinuxMint (http://www.linuxmint.com) which is based on Ubuntu. The big difference is everything works right off the bat, first time.</p><p>Its amazing what IS out there today. You can skin XP to look like Ubuntu:<br>http://en.softonic.com/s/windows-xp-skin-linux</p><p>Or, skin Ubuntu to look like XP:<br>http://linuxologist.com/linuxhowto/howto-make-ubuntu-look-like-windows-xp/</p><p>Today you can pick the OS and then the GUI almost separately.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have on and off been trying Linux distros for the past 10 years .
In the work environment of course RedHat soon stood out as the standard , but is not suitable for a Windows escapee.Last year , after much research , I tried Ubuntu .
What I found was a swamp of missing drivers and broken functionality .
The forums are great and the folks do n't bite your head off as with some tech-nerd sites/products ( the " RTFM n00b ! !
" thing ) .And then , epiphany : I discovered LinuxMint ( http : //www.linuxmint.com ) which is based on Ubuntu .
The big difference is everything works right off the bat , first time.Its amazing what IS out there today .
You can skin XP to look like Ubuntu : http : //en.softonic.com/s/windows-xp-skin-linuxOr , skin Ubuntu to look like XP : http : //linuxologist.com/linuxhowto/howto-make-ubuntu-look-like-windows-xp/Today you can pick the OS and then the GUI almost separately .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have on and off been trying Linux distros for the past 10 years.
In the work environment of course RedHat soon stood out as the standard, but is not suitable for a Windows escapee.Last year, after much research, I tried Ubuntu.
What I found was a swamp of missing drivers and broken functionality.
The forums are great and the folks don't bite your head off as with some tech-nerd sites/products (the "RTFM n00b!!
" thing).And then, epiphany: I discovered LinuxMint (http://www.linuxmint.com) which is based on Ubuntu.
The big difference is everything works right off the bat, first time.Its amazing what IS out there today.
You can skin XP to look like Ubuntu:http://en.softonic.com/s/windows-xp-skin-linuxOr, skin Ubuntu to look like XP:http://linuxologist.com/linuxhowto/howto-make-ubuntu-look-like-windows-xp/Today you can pick the OS and then the GUI almost separately.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212442</id>
	<title>Re:Try OpenSUSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266656460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I knew I would get that kind of reaction wording my question that way. My aim is not to bash Linux, but of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4, from a HALT error to a grey screen after loading x to a weird system screen with no login or launch options to a great big freeze at the desktop. I tried looking around for docs on these 4 issues, and either didn't find any relevant info, or it didn't work, or the info was incomplete or outdated. But then again, I'm dumb.</p><p>Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs, I'm taking it as a sign it will work well enough for simple desktop tasks, though the community, as you so effectively prove, is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.</p><p>As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me. My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew I would get that kind of reaction wording my question that way .
My aim is not to bash Linux , but of the 6 PCs I currently have at home , it failed to install on 4 , from a HALT error to a grey screen after loading x to a weird system screen with no login or launch options to a great big freeze at the desktop .
I tried looking around for docs on these 4 issues , and either did n't find any relevant info , or it did n't work , or the info was incomplete or outdated .
But then again , I 'm dumb.Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs , I 'm taking it as a sign it will work well enough for simple desktop tasks , though the community , as you so effectively prove , is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.As for making it look like Windows , my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me .
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen 's resolution.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew I would get that kind of reaction wording my question that way.
My aim is not to bash Linux, but of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4, from a HALT error to a grey screen after loading x to a weird system screen with no login or launch options to a great big freeze at the desktop.
I tried looking around for docs on these 4 issues, and either didn't find any relevant info, or it didn't work, or the info was incomplete or outdated.
But then again, I'm dumb.Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs, I'm taking it as a sign it will work well enough for simple desktop tasks, though the community, as you so effectively prove, is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me.
My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211776</id>
	<title>Cygwin for the win!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cygwin is the premiere GNU distribution that will run on a Windows kernel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cygwin is the premiere GNU distribution that will run on a Windows kernel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cygwin is the premiere GNU distribution that will run on a Windows kernel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211970</id>
	<title>Re:Prepare for all</title>
	<author>elfprince13</author>
	<datestamp>1266696840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>My *mother* switched painlessly to Ubuntu. The first step is training them to use Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, and VLC on their Windows machine. After a month or so of smooth sailing, install Ubuntu and show them where the new menu locations are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My * mother * switched painlessly to Ubuntu .
The first step is training them to use Firefox , Thunderbird , OpenOffice , and VLC on their Windows machine .
After a month or so of smooth sailing , install Ubuntu and show them where the new menu locations are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My *mother* switched painlessly to Ubuntu.
The first step is training them to use Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, and VLC on their Windows machine.
After a month or so of smooth sailing, install Ubuntu and show them where the new menu locations are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31212380</id>
	<title>Re:ER... Why?</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1266699360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously,....I'm an Ubuntu zealot, but I have learned my lesson "nation building" with tech stuff.   You are never really done,  people call for help and questions years later.</p><p>If they don't like windows they just need to pony up a little more cash, get a Mac and get rid of the hassles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously,....I 'm an Ubuntu zealot , but I have learned my lesson " nation building " with tech stuff .
You are never really done , people call for help and questions years later.If they do n't like windows they just need to pony up a little more cash , get a Mac and get rid of the hassles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously,....I'm an Ubuntu zealot, but I have learned my lesson "nation building" with tech stuff.
You are never really done,  people call for help and questions years later.If they don't like windows they just need to pony up a little more cash, get a Mac and get rid of the hassles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31213746</id>
	<title>Re:Linus</title>
	<author>MSG</author>
	<datestamp>1266665460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others have already pointed out, in the most recent interview I've seen, Linus uses Fedora.  To it's credit, he noted that he <em>likes</em> Ubuntu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others have already pointed out , in the most recent interview I 've seen , Linus uses Fedora .
To it 's credit , he noted that he likes Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others have already pointed out, in the most recent interview I've seen, Linus uses Fedora.
To it's credit, he noted that he likes Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31211476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_1653232.31214120</id>
	<title>Suggestion for your needs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266669180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would suggest OpenSUSE. Use the KDE desktop, it has a pannel on the bottom, has program launch menu on the left and clock, calendar, etc on the right.  Highly configurable. Works with or without 3D acceleration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suggest OpenSUSE .
Use the KDE desktop , it has a pannel on the bottom , has program launch menu on the left and clock , calendar , etc on the right .
Highly configurable .
Works with or without 3D acceleration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suggest OpenSUSE.
Use the KDE desktop, it has a pannel on the bottom, has program launch menu on the left and clock, calendar, etc on the right.
Highly configurable.
Works with or without 3D acceleration.</sentencetext>
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