<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_18_190236</id>
	<title>New Plan Lets Top HS Students Graduate 2 Years Early</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1266521760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes <i>"The NY Times reports that education commissioners in Connecticut, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont have pledged to sign up 10 to 20 schools each for a pilot project that would <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/education/18educ.html">allow 10th graders who pass a battery of tests to get a diploma two years early and immediately enroll in community college</a>. The new system of high school coursework with the accompanying board examinations is modeled largely on systems in high-performing nations including Denmark, England, Finland, France and Singapore. 'We've looked at schools all over the world, and if you walk into a high school in the countries that use these board exams, you'll see kids working hard, whether they want to be a carpenter or a brain surgeon.' says Marc S. Tucker, president of the <a href="http://www.ncee.org/index.jsp?setProtocol=true">National Center on Education and the Economy</a>. Kentucky's commissioner of education, Terry Holliday, says high school graduation requirements have long been based on having students accumulate enough course credits to graduate. 'We've been tied to seat time for 100 years. This would allow an approach based on subject mastery &mdash; <a href="http://www.collegenews.com/index.php?/careers/new\_bill\_lets\_high\_school\_students\_move\_on\_when\_ready\_34825254/">a system based around move-on-when-ready</a>,' says Holliday. However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college. 'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.  ... <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/education/k\_12/articles/2008/12/21/diploma\_program\_debated/">Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that</a>,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes " The NY Times reports that education commissioners in Connecticut , Kentucky , Maine , New Hampshire , New Mexico , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island and Vermont have pledged to sign up 10 to 20 schools each for a pilot project that would allow 10th graders who pass a battery of tests to get a diploma two years early and immediately enroll in community college .
The new system of high school coursework with the accompanying board examinations is modeled largely on systems in high-performing nations including Denmark , England , Finland , France and Singapore .
'We 've looked at schools all over the world , and if you walk into a high school in the countries that use these board exams , you 'll see kids working hard , whether they want to be a carpenter or a brain surgeon .
' says Marc S. Tucker , president of the National Center on Education and the Economy .
Kentucky 's commissioner of education , Terry Holliday , says high school graduation requirements have long been based on having students accumulate enough course credits to graduate .
'We 've been tied to seat time for 100 years .
This would allow an approach based on subject mastery    a system based around move-on-when-ready, ' says Holliday .
However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college .
'That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that, ' says Mary Anderson , headmaster of Pinkerton Academy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that education commissioners in Connecticut, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont have pledged to sign up 10 to 20 schools each for a pilot project that would allow 10th graders who pass a battery of tests to get a diploma two years early and immediately enroll in community college.
The new system of high school coursework with the accompanying board examinations is modeled largely on systems in high-performing nations including Denmark, England, Finland, France and Singapore.
'We've looked at schools all over the world, and if you walk into a high school in the countries that use these board exams, you'll see kids working hard, whether they want to be a carpenter or a brain surgeon.
' says Marc S. Tucker, president of the National Center on Education and the Economy.
Kentucky's commissioner of education, Terry Holliday, says high school graduation requirements have long been based on having students accumulate enough course credits to graduate.
'We've been tied to seat time for 100 years.
This would allow an approach based on subject mastery — a system based around move-on-when-ready,' says Holliday.
However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college.
'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189222</id>
	<title>High School students act like High School students</title>
	<author>bigpat</author>
	<datestamp>1266525960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college. 'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy.</p></div><p>Are you saying Americans are immature?  Kids in other countries seem to handle this okay.</p><p>Maybe if you didn't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they wouldn't act like such high school students.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college .
'That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that, ' says Mary Anderson , headmaster of Pinkerton Academy.Are you saying Americans are immature ?
Kids in other countries seem to handle this okay.Maybe if you did n't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they would n't act like such high school students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college.
'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy.Are you saying Americans are immature?
Kids in other countries seem to handle this okay.Maybe if you didn't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they wouldn't act like such high school students.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190896</id>
	<title>I participated in a similar program</title>
	<author>Gurny</author>
	<datestamp>1266487200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I participated in a similar program to what is being discussed here in the 90's in Washington State</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running\_Start</p><p>In my case I transitioned completely to the community college for my junior and senior years. I completed a two year CS degree before graduating from high school. I then moved up to the University of Washington as a full time student with two years of credit transferred and completed a four year degree.Aside from providing a superior educational environment it was also a 50\% off coupon for in state college tuition.</p><p>While I can understand the point of view of many posters who worry about a 16 year old moving into an adult atmosphere I do not think that it should prevent anyone from considering this option. Giving advanced, or more motivated students the additional freedom to succeed or fail may be one of the most important benefits of this program.While some students will make full use of this opportunity, others will inevitably find ways to fail. Why let the fear of failure remove an opportunity for success?</p><p>I also take issue with some of the comments posted here that characterize community colleges as having an inherently low quality of education. The finest college professor I ever had was at the community college I attended. His passion and mastery of his subject matter exceeded many of the professors I met at the University of Washington. While not every professor was like this I think it is important to not devalue community colleges because of this perception.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I participated in a similar program to what is being discussed here in the 90 's in Washington Statehttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running \ _StartIn my case I transitioned completely to the community college for my junior and senior years .
I completed a two year CS degree before graduating from high school .
I then moved up to the University of Washington as a full time student with two years of credit transferred and completed a four year degree.Aside from providing a superior educational environment it was also a 50 \ % off coupon for in state college tuition.While I can understand the point of view of many posters who worry about a 16 year old moving into an adult atmosphere I do not think that it should prevent anyone from considering this option .
Giving advanced , or more motivated students the additional freedom to succeed or fail may be one of the most important benefits of this program.While some students will make full use of this opportunity , others will inevitably find ways to fail .
Why let the fear of failure remove an opportunity for success ? I also take issue with some of the comments posted here that characterize community colleges as having an inherently low quality of education .
The finest college professor I ever had was at the community college I attended .
His passion and mastery of his subject matter exceeded many of the professors I met at the University of Washington .
While not every professor was like this I think it is important to not devalue community colleges because of this perception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I participated in a similar program to what is being discussed here in the 90's in Washington Statehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running\_StartIn my case I transitioned completely to the community college for my junior and senior years.
I completed a two year CS degree before graduating from high school.
I then moved up to the University of Washington as a full time student with two years of credit transferred and completed a four year degree.Aside from providing a superior educational environment it was also a 50\% off coupon for in state college tuition.While I can understand the point of view of many posters who worry about a 16 year old moving into an adult atmosphere I do not think that it should prevent anyone from considering this option.
Giving advanced, or more motivated students the additional freedom to succeed or fail may be one of the most important benefits of this program.While some students will make full use of this opportunity, others will inevitably find ways to fail.
Why let the fear of failure remove an opportunity for success?I also take issue with some of the comments posted here that characterize community colleges as having an inherently low quality of education.
The finest college professor I ever had was at the community college I attended.
His passion and mastery of his subject matter exceeded many of the professors I met at the University of Washington.
While not every professor was like this I think it is important to not devalue community colleges because of this perception.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189730</id>
	<title>Yeah we know...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This exists already. I did it. It's called Dual Enrollment. You don't have to take a battery of tests. You just need a 3.0+ GPA, a willing parent, a car, and to pass a very minimalistic test to get into the college. Not everyone is cut out for it those, most kids just want to skip school. But the diehard nerds are in Calc III and Diff. Eq. by the time they're 17 and look at me now: Grad school for structural engineering at 20. Good program, just gotta get the lazy ones booted out so it doesn't look bad. I ha</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This exists already .
I did it .
It 's called Dual Enrollment .
You do n't have to take a battery of tests .
You just need a 3.0 + GPA , a willing parent , a car , and to pass a very minimalistic test to get into the college .
Not everyone is cut out for it those , most kids just want to skip school .
But the diehard nerds are in Calc III and Diff .
Eq. by the time they 're 17 and look at me now : Grad school for structural engineering at 20 .
Good program , just got ta get the lazy ones booted out so it does n't look bad .
I ha</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This exists already.
I did it.
It's called Dual Enrollment.
You don't have to take a battery of tests.
You just need a 3.0+ GPA, a willing parent, a car, and to pass a very minimalistic test to get into the college.
Not everyone is cut out for it those, most kids just want to skip school.
But the diehard nerds are in Calc III and Diff.
Eq. by the time they're 17 and look at me now: Grad school for structural engineering at 20.
Good program, just gotta get the lazy ones booted out so it doesn't look bad.
I ha</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190068</id>
	<title>students passing program will be ready for college</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opinion, if your educated enough to pass the tests and graduate early, your ready for college. If you're trying to achieve that level of knowledge early, your going to be preparing outside of the classroom as well, and you're going to be mature enough for college. The fact of the matter is, the high school system is so bad now, that college freshman find themselves not prepared for college coming in because they haven't been challenged enough in high school. This will make some high school students raise to the occasion</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion , if your educated enough to pass the tests and graduate early , your ready for college .
If you 're trying to achieve that level of knowledge early , your going to be preparing outside of the classroom as well , and you 're going to be mature enough for college .
The fact of the matter is , the high school system is so bad now , that college freshman find themselves not prepared for college coming in because they have n't been challenged enough in high school .
This will make some high school students raise to the occasion</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion, if your educated enough to pass the tests and graduate early, your ready for college.
If you're trying to achieve that level of knowledge early, your going to be preparing outside of the classroom as well, and you're going to be mature enough for college.
The fact of the matter is, the high school system is so bad now, that college freshman find themselves not prepared for college coming in because they haven't been challenged enough in high school.
This will make some high school students raise to the occasion</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190364</id>
	<title>Re:It's a cost-cutting measure.</title>
	<author>flaming error</author>
	<datestamp>1266485820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement courses</p><p>Perhaps you intended to be ironic, but the whole point of AP courses is to teach college material to high school-aged students.</p><p>One can imagine a certain efficiency in having students take college courses at a college.</p><p>"Cutting education costs" is not necessarily an evil thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement coursesPerhaps you intended to be ironic , but the whole point of AP courses is to teach college material to high school-aged students.One can imagine a certain efficiency in having students take college courses at a college .
" Cutting education costs " is not necessarily an evil thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement coursesPerhaps you intended to be ironic, but the whole point of AP courses is to teach college material to high school-aged students.One can imagine a certain efficiency in having students take college courses at a college.
"Cutting education costs" is not necessarily an evil thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190558</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1266486240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity. They might have the book learnin' but they won't have the lived experience. The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20, mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality. There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.</p></div><p>It is certainly true that various people mature at different rates...  But those rates aren't directly tied to the number of years they've been alive.</p><p>It isn't like there's some "maturity lobe" that sprouts out of your brain on your 19th birthday.</p><p>I've seen plenty of mature 16-year-olds who are more than capable of handling themselves in a college environment.  I've seen plenty of 30-year-olds who really aren't mature enough to be living independently.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the problem is , the test is not likely to test emotional maturity .
They might have the book learnin ' but they wo n't have the lived experience .
The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that are n't fully developed until 19 or 20 , mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality .
There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.It is certainly true that various people mature at different rates... But those rates are n't directly tied to the number of years they 've been alive.It is n't like there 's some " maturity lobe " that sprouts out of your brain on your 19th birthday.I 've seen plenty of mature 16-year-olds who are more than capable of handling themselves in a college environment .
I 've seen plenty of 30-year-olds who really are n't mature enough to be living independently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity.
They might have the book learnin' but they won't have the lived experience.
The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20, mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality.
There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.It is certainly true that various people mature at different rates...  But those rates aren't directly tied to the number of years they've been alive.It isn't like there's some "maturity lobe" that sprouts out of your brain on your 19th birthday.I've seen plenty of mature 16-year-olds who are more than capable of handling themselves in a college environment.
I've seen plenty of 30-year-olds who really aren't mature enough to be living independently.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189424</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lower-division undergraduate courses are pretty much the same wherever they're taught. There may be lower expectations for community college students, but there's nothing stopping a motivated student from doing work beyond the bare minimum.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lower-division undergraduate courses are pretty much the same wherever they 're taught .
There may be lower expectations for community college students , but there 's nothing stopping a motivated student from doing work beyond the bare minimum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lower-division undergraduate courses are pretty much the same wherever they're taught.
There may be lower expectations for community college students, but there's nothing stopping a motivated student from doing work beyond the bare minimum.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31198508</id>
	<title>Very bad idea</title>
	<author>T.E.D.</author>
	<datestamp>1266591180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anyone elite enough to finish High School two years early we should be steering towards full four-year universities. Preferably the elite ones. This isn't just for our sake, but for society's as well.
<p>This program instead is steering them into <em>Community College</em>. Most of the better four-years require applicants to have taken four years of English in High School too, so its not like these gifted folks will even have that option if they want to take it.
</p><p>This seems like a bad idea all around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone elite enough to finish High School two years early we should be steering towards full four-year universities .
Preferably the elite ones .
This is n't just for our sake , but for society 's as well .
This program instead is steering them into Community College .
Most of the better four-years require applicants to have taken four years of English in High School too , so its not like these gifted folks will even have that option if they want to take it .
This seems like a bad idea all around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone elite enough to finish High School two years early we should be steering towards full four-year universities.
Preferably the elite ones.
This isn't just for our sake, but for society's as well.
This program instead is steering them into Community College.
Most of the better four-years require applicants to have taken four years of English in High School too, so its not like these gifted folks will even have that option if they want to take it.
This seems like a bad idea all around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190388</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>B1oodAnge1</author>
	<datestamp>1266485880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have news for you. Barely any of the college freshmen are ready either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have news for you .
Barely any of the college freshmen are ready either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have news for you.
Barely any of the college freshmen are ready either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193066</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Spykk</author>
	<datestamp>1266496560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.</p></div><p>
People driving for the first time being more likely to get into an accident than people who have been doing it for years doesn't have much to do with maturity...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old .
People driving for the first time being more likely to get into an accident than people who have been doing it for years does n't have much to do with maturity.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.
People driving for the first time being more likely to get into an accident than people who have been doing it for years doesn't have much to do with maturity...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191280</id>
	<title>It works just fine.</title>
	<author>dynamo</author>
	<datestamp>1266488460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even the worst community college I've ever seen has been better than 95\% of the High Schools as far as potential to learn. The whole "you're locked in here against your will" thing never really appealed to me, and I found it distracting to say the least.</p><p>I took a test at 15 to do exactly this, the California High School Proficiency Exam, left HS the day after I turned 16, and have never once regretted it.</p><p>Let's save the whole prison treatment for those that need it to learn (assuming/pretending there is anyactual value in doing so), and let the intelligent kids move on to college where students are treated with respect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even the worst community college I 've ever seen has been better than 95 \ % of the High Schools as far as potential to learn .
The whole " you 're locked in here against your will " thing never really appealed to me , and I found it distracting to say the least.I took a test at 15 to do exactly this , the California High School Proficiency Exam , left HS the day after I turned 16 , and have never once regretted it.Let 's save the whole prison treatment for those that need it to learn ( assuming/pretending there is anyactual value in doing so ) , and let the intelligent kids move on to college where students are treated with respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even the worst community college I've ever seen has been better than 95\% of the High Schools as far as potential to learn.
The whole "you're locked in here against your will" thing never really appealed to me, and I found it distracting to say the least.I took a test at 15 to do exactly this, the California High School Proficiency Exam, left HS the day after I turned 16, and have never once regretted it.Let's save the whole prison treatment for those that need it to learn (assuming/pretending there is anyactual value in doing so), and let the intelligent kids move on to college where students are treated with respect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191728</id>
	<title>Oooo, teachers' unions are not going to like this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266490320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oooo, teachers' unions are not going to like this one.  Teachers being held accountable for what they teach, and students demanding their time be spent on what they actually need to know and not the leftest political dialog that makes up a substantial portion of the classroom time in your average school.  Why, it may even lead to merit pay for teachers who have a record of students that succeed (through some other means than warming a seat), and a means of encouraging good teachers to stay in the system and bad teachers to leave rather than the other way around.  Can't wait to hear the screaming from the NEA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oooo , teachers ' unions are not going to like this one .
Teachers being held accountable for what they teach , and students demanding their time be spent on what they actually need to know and not the leftest political dialog that makes up a substantial portion of the classroom time in your average school .
Why , it may even lead to merit pay for teachers who have a record of students that succeed ( through some other means than warming a seat ) , and a means of encouraging good teachers to stay in the system and bad teachers to leave rather than the other way around .
Ca n't wait to hear the screaming from the NEA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oooo, teachers' unions are not going to like this one.
Teachers being held accountable for what they teach, and students demanding their time be spent on what they actually need to know and not the leftest political dialog that makes up a substantial portion of the classroom time in your average school.
Why, it may even lead to merit pay for teachers who have a record of students that succeed (through some other means than warming a seat), and a means of encouraging good teachers to stay in the system and bad teachers to leave rather than the other way around.
Can't wait to hear the screaming from the NEA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</id>
	<title>Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?  Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.  </p><p>A community college does not have that environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life , why on earth would you be going to community college ?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them , or get them to a college with an academic environment that will .
A community college does not have that environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.
A community college does not have that environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191174</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Unending</author>
	<datestamp>1266488160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did what the article is describing on my own.<br>I took a state exam that allowed me to enter community college instead of continuing with highschool for my last two years.<br>I don't think I was ready for university, but community college was just fine and I was able to get a considerable amount of coursework done before I continued on to university, also it gave me a better understanding of what exactly I wanted to do in university.<br>When I entered university I feel I was better prepared than those that had just come from a highschool and I was able to enter an honors program that allowed me to do undergraduate research.<br>I think that this stairstepped progression is a good idea because the transitions are more gradual than the usual highschool to university transition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did what the article is describing on my own.I took a state exam that allowed me to enter community college instead of continuing with highschool for my last two years.I do n't think I was ready for university , but community college was just fine and I was able to get a considerable amount of coursework done before I continued on to university , also it gave me a better understanding of what exactly I wanted to do in university.When I entered university I feel I was better prepared than those that had just come from a highschool and I was able to enter an honors program that allowed me to do undergraduate research.I think that this stairstepped progression is a good idea because the transitions are more gradual than the usual highschool to university transition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did what the article is describing on my own.I took a state exam that allowed me to enter community college instead of continuing with highschool for my last two years.I don't think I was ready for university, but community college was just fine and I was able to get a considerable amount of coursework done before I continued on to university, also it gave me a better understanding of what exactly I wanted to do in university.When I entered university I feel I was better prepared than those that had just come from a highschool and I was able to enter an honors program that allowed me to do undergraduate research.I think that this stairstepped progression is a good idea because the transitions are more gradual than the usual highschool to university transition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190926</id>
	<title>Re:How about wait 2 years to go to College anyway?</title>
	<author>lucifuge31337</author>
	<datestamp>1266487320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>too socially inept or immature for College?  Let them enter the workforce</p></div><p>Re-read that, and then tell me what you think about your suggestion.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>too socially inept or immature for College ?
Let them enter the workforceRe-read that , and then tell me what you think about your suggestion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>too socially inept or immature for College?
Let them enter the workforceRe-read that, and then tell me what you think about your suggestion.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189252</id>
	<title>Great idea!</title>
	<author>NotBornYesterday</author>
	<datestamp>1266526020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This would allow those kids in PA to avoid the <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/02/18/1846222/PA-School-Spied-On-Students-Via-School-Issued-Laptop-Webcams" title="slashdot.org">voyeurs</a> [slashdot.org] in the school system there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This would allow those kids in PA to avoid the voyeurs [ slashdot.org ] in the school system there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This would allow those kids in PA to avoid the voyeurs [slashdot.org] in the school system there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191472</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266489240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Frankly, if you are relying on an extra two years of high school to achieve this, you are doing it wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Frankly , if you are relying on an extra two years of high school to achieve this , you are doing it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Frankly, if you are relying on an extra two years of high school to achieve this, you are doing it wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189774</id>
	<title>Re:maturity?</title>
	<author>wramsdel</author>
	<datestamp>1266484260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I absolutely agree.  It's probably going to sound curmudgeonly, but there's been a huge shift in the U.S. from guiding behavior to controlling environment.  This is great...until the environment is no longer controlled.  As soon as that happens, a child whose environment has been meticulously managed from birth suddenly finds her/himself completely unable to cope.  Blech.  My kid's only one, but my philosophy even now is to help him understand himself, characterize his environment, and act accordingly.  It means letting him fail sometimes, because he chose wrongly, but it also means that he's much more in control when confronted with a new situation.  I find it far less stressful for both of us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I absolutely agree .
It 's probably going to sound curmudgeonly , but there 's been a huge shift in the U.S. from guiding behavior to controlling environment .
This is great...until the environment is no longer controlled .
As soon as that happens , a child whose environment has been meticulously managed from birth suddenly finds her/himself completely unable to cope .
Blech. My kid 's only one , but my philosophy even now is to help him understand himself , characterize his environment , and act accordingly .
It means letting him fail sometimes , because he chose wrongly , but it also means that he 's much more in control when confronted with a new situation .
I find it far less stressful for both of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I absolutely agree.
It's probably going to sound curmudgeonly, but there's been a huge shift in the U.S. from guiding behavior to controlling environment.
This is great...until the environment is no longer controlled.
As soon as that happens, a child whose environment has been meticulously managed from birth suddenly finds her/himself completely unable to cope.
Blech.  My kid's only one, but my philosophy even now is to help him understand himself, characterize his environment, and act accordingly.
It means letting him fail sometimes, because he chose wrongly, but it also means that he's much more in control when confronted with a new situation.
I find it far less stressful for both of us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190414</id>
	<title>Already happening in OH</title>
	<author>EMB Numbers</author>
	<datestamp>1266485880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Beavercreek High School in Ohio already allows students to attend any of the following colleges/universities instead of senior year, and I suspect it is available for juniors if they are admitted: The Air Force Institute of Technology, Wright State University, the University of Dayton, Antioch  University, Wittenberg University, Central State University, Wilberforce University, Wilmington  College, Cedarville College, Clark State Community College and Sinclair Community College.</p><p>The best part is that the school district pays the student's tuition at least at Sinclair Community College or Wright State University and possibly the others as well.  Why waste time and take a few AP courses when you can complete an entire year or two at college in the same amount of time?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Beavercreek High School in Ohio already allows students to attend any of the following colleges/universities instead of senior year , and I suspect it is available for juniors if they are admitted : The Air Force Institute of Technology , Wright State University , the University of Dayton , Antioch University , Wittenberg University , Central State University , Wilberforce University , Wilmington College , Cedarville College , Clark State Community College and Sinclair Community College.The best part is that the school district pays the student 's tuition at least at Sinclair Community College or Wright State University and possibly the others as well .
Why waste time and take a few AP courses when you can complete an entire year or two at college in the same amount of time ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Beavercreek High School in Ohio already allows students to attend any of the following colleges/universities instead of senior year, and I suspect it is available for juniors if they are admitted: The Air Force Institute of Technology, Wright State University, the University of Dayton, Antioch  University, Wittenberg University, Central State University, Wilberforce University, Wilmington  College, Cedarville College, Clark State Community College and Sinclair Community College.The best part is that the school district pays the student's tuition at least at Sinclair Community College or Wright State University and possibly the others as well.
Why waste time and take a few AP courses when you can complete an entire year or two at college in the same amount of time?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189942</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1266484740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"That's exactly what happened in my school system. When I was a senior in high school (I couldn't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ)"</p><p>I grew up in NJ and had a similar problem.  I was lucky and discovered the Rutgers High School Scholars program, which was specifically designed to allow high schoolers to take a few classes per semester at Rutgers.</p><p>If I had not been in the Rutgers HSS program, I would have HATED my senior year in high school, since in addition to the three classes I was taking (Gym was required, Language and Literature aka English was required for any student attending school, and Wind Ensemble because I actually wanted to take it), I would have had to fill my high school schedule with classes I had no interest in taking.  Instead, thanks to HSS, I was able to get an exemption to my high school's minimum courseload requirements.</p><p>In some ways I'm glad things worked out that way and I didn't graduate early, the "part high school part college" year of transition period helped a lot in terms of developing maturity without feeling like the system was holding me back.  In addition this meant starting college at 18 (It sucked to be the one 17 year old on the bus when we went on a marching band roadtrip to Canada my freshman year), and getting to turn 21 in October of my junior year of college instead of senior year.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>I think it would be a far better approach than what is proposed to continue targeting an age of aproximately 18 for high school graduation, but providing more opportunities for gifted high school students to enrich themselves.  We do have this to some degree with programs such as the Rutgers program I attended and magnet schools, but they're rare and far too much of a pain in the ass to participate in thanks to the "everyone's a winner" mentality that No Child Left Behind put into law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" That 's exactly what happened in my school system .
When I was a senior in high school ( I could n't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ ) " I grew up in NJ and had a similar problem .
I was lucky and discovered the Rutgers High School Scholars program , which was specifically designed to allow high schoolers to take a few classes per semester at Rutgers.If I had not been in the Rutgers HSS program , I would have HATED my senior year in high school , since in addition to the three classes I was taking ( Gym was required , Language and Literature aka English was required for any student attending school , and Wind Ensemble because I actually wanted to take it ) , I would have had to fill my high school schedule with classes I had no interest in taking .
Instead , thanks to HSS , I was able to get an exemption to my high school 's minimum courseload requirements.In some ways I 'm glad things worked out that way and I did n't graduate early , the " part high school part college " year of transition period helped a lot in terms of developing maturity without feeling like the system was holding me back .
In addition this meant starting college at 18 ( It sucked to be the one 17 year old on the bus when we went on a marching band roadtrip to Canada my freshman year ) , and getting to turn 21 in October of my junior year of college instead of senior year .
: ) I think it would be a far better approach than what is proposed to continue targeting an age of aproximately 18 for high school graduation , but providing more opportunities for gifted high school students to enrich themselves .
We do have this to some degree with programs such as the Rutgers program I attended and magnet schools , but they 're rare and far too much of a pain in the ass to participate in thanks to the " everyone 's a winner " mentality that No Child Left Behind put into law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"That's exactly what happened in my school system.
When I was a senior in high school (I couldn't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ)"I grew up in NJ and had a similar problem.
I was lucky and discovered the Rutgers High School Scholars program, which was specifically designed to allow high schoolers to take a few classes per semester at Rutgers.If I had not been in the Rutgers HSS program, I would have HATED my senior year in high school, since in addition to the three classes I was taking (Gym was required, Language and Literature aka English was required for any student attending school, and Wind Ensemble because I actually wanted to take it), I would have had to fill my high school schedule with classes I had no interest in taking.
Instead, thanks to HSS, I was able to get an exemption to my high school's minimum courseload requirements.In some ways I'm glad things worked out that way and I didn't graduate early, the "part high school part college" year of transition period helped a lot in terms of developing maturity without feeling like the system was holding me back.
In addition this meant starting college at 18 (It sucked to be the one 17 year old on the bus when we went on a marching band roadtrip to Canada my freshman year), and getting to turn 21 in October of my junior year of college instead of senior year.
:)I think it would be a far better approach than what is proposed to continue targeting an age of aproximately 18 for high school graduation, but providing more opportunities for gifted high school students to enrich themselves.
We do have this to some degree with programs such as the Rutgers program I attended and magnet schools, but they're rare and far too much of a pain in the ass to participate in thanks to the "everyone's a winner" mentality that No Child Left Behind put into law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191576</id>
	<title>Community College Is For</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266489600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>recently divorced, overweight 40 year old women, disabled/laid off blue collar workers, strippers who are believe the lies they tell their johns, barely above average intelligent poor kids, ex-military with the GI bill to blow, oh, and your anomaly situation which totally shatters my accurate generalization.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>recently divorced , overweight 40 year old women , disabled/laid off blue collar workers , strippers who are believe the lies they tell their johns , barely above average intelligent poor kids , ex-military with the GI bill to blow , oh , and your anomaly situation which totally shatters my accurate generalization .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>recently divorced, overweight 40 year old women, disabled/laid off blue collar workers, strippers who are believe the lies they tell their johns, barely above average intelligent poor kids, ex-military with the GI bill to blow, oh, and your anomaly situation which totally shatters my accurate generalization.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31197120</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>sonicmerlin</author>
	<datestamp>1266576840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You don't understand what you're talking about.  The human brain undergoes massive changes during your teenage years, rendering you incapable of properly assessing risk until your mind has fully developed.  In fact recent studies have shown that physical brain development that leads to changes in personality and increased "maturity" continues into the mid to late 20s.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't understand what you 're talking about .
The human brain undergoes massive changes during your teenage years , rendering you incapable of properly assessing risk until your mind has fully developed .
In fact recent studies have shown that physical brain development that leads to changes in personality and increased " maturity " continues into the mid to late 20s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't understand what you're talking about.
The human brain undergoes massive changes during your teenage years, rendering you incapable of properly assessing risk until your mind has fully developed.
In fact recent studies have shown that physical brain development that leads to changes in personality and increased "maturity" continues into the mid to late 20s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190438</id>
	<title>Similar program in Washington for years now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Benton and Franklin counties in Washington there's a program called Running Start. (it may be statewide I don't know.) Basically, high school juniors are given the option to attend the community college to earn both high school and college credit, and those who successfully complete all the coursework graduate high school with an AA/AS/AAS and a high school diploma. Pretty awesome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Benton and Franklin counties in Washington there 's a program called Running Start .
( it may be statewide I do n't know .
) Basically , high school juniors are given the option to attend the community college to earn both high school and college credit , and those who successfully complete all the coursework graduate high school with an AA/AS/AAS and a high school diploma .
Pretty awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Benton and Franklin counties in Washington there's a program called Running Start.
(it may be statewide I don't know.
) Basically, high school juniors are given the option to attend the community college to earn both high school and college credit, and those who successfully complete all the coursework graduate high school with an AA/AS/AAS and a high school diploma.
Pretty awesome.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189850</id>
	<title>Drop out</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like the idea of this program.<br> <br>

I hated HS and would have done anything to get out early.<br> <br>

In the end, as there was no early out, I simply dropped out of HS entirely. A bit thereafter I took the insanely easy GED exam, got my paper and started at my local community college in what would have been my senior year in HS.<br> <br>

I don't regret that decision. Never have. And once you have your BS/BA no one cares about your HS history.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the idea of this program .
I hated HS and would have done anything to get out early .
In the end , as there was no early out , I simply dropped out of HS entirely .
A bit thereafter I took the insanely easy GED exam , got my paper and started at my local community college in what would have been my senior year in HS .
I do n't regret that decision .
Never have .
And once you have your BS/BA no one cares about your HS history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the idea of this program.
I hated HS and would have done anything to get out early.
In the end, as there was no early out, I simply dropped out of HS entirely.
A bit thereafter I took the insanely easy GED exam, got my paper and started at my local community college in what would have been my senior year in HS.
I don't regret that decision.
Never have.
And once you have your BS/BA no one cares about your HS history.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189362</id>
	<title>Easier Solution</title>
	<author>Nautical Insanity</author>
	<datestamp>1266526320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose this is an easier solution than improving high schools so that they are able to educate rather than detain our brightest students.</p><p>I have nothing against this. If it works, do it. But it highlights what I think is a fundamental problem with the American education system: we try to give everyone the same education in the same place. You can't give the brightest what they need if you're too busy trying to regroup the stragglers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose this is an easier solution than improving high schools so that they are able to educate rather than detain our brightest students.I have nothing against this .
If it works , do it .
But it highlights what I think is a fundamental problem with the American education system : we try to give everyone the same education in the same place .
You ca n't give the brightest what they need if you 're too busy trying to regroup the stragglers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose this is an easier solution than improving high schools so that they are able to educate rather than detain our brightest students.I have nothing against this.
If it works, do it.
But it highlights what I think is a fundamental problem with the American education system: we try to give everyone the same education in the same place.
You can't give the brightest what they need if you're too busy trying to regroup the stragglers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190322</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>svtdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1266485700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To go off on a small tangent:<p><div class="quote"><p>There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.</p></div><p>You are right.  And a big part of that reason is that they have less experience driving.  A 19 year old with a learner's permit can be just as dangerous as a 16 year old with one.  This is why insurance companies will charge you less the longer you've been insured without interruption.  <br> <br>If age was a more significant factor than experience, wouldn't we have raised the driving age?  In reality both play a part, but the difference between a year of experience and two is about <a href="http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/1115/2/88736.0001.001.pdf" title="umich.edu">10\%</a> [umich.edu] as crash likelihood goes, whereas a year of age nets you half that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To go off on a small tangent : There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.You are right .
And a big part of that reason is that they have less experience driving .
A 19 year old with a learner 's permit can be just as dangerous as a 16 year old with one .
This is why insurance companies will charge you less the longer you 've been insured without interruption .
If age was a more significant factor than experience , would n't we have raised the driving age ?
In reality both play a part , but the difference between a year of experience and two is about 10 \ % [ umich.edu ] as crash likelihood goes , whereas a year of age nets you half that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To go off on a small tangent:There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.You are right.
And a big part of that reason is that they have less experience driving.
A 19 year old with a learner's permit can be just as dangerous as a 16 year old with one.
This is why insurance companies will charge you less the longer you've been insured without interruption.
If age was a more significant factor than experience, wouldn't we have raised the driving age?
In reality both play a part, but the difference between a year of experience and two is about 10\% [umich.edu] as crash likelihood goes, whereas a year of age nets you half that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189218</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>cptdondo</author>
	<datestamp>1266525960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends on the community college.  There are some that are academically rigorous and serve as the first 2 years of a 4 year college curriculum at a much lower cost.  And there are 4 year colleges that are diploma mills.</p><p>Don't get caught up in the label.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on the community college .
There are some that are academically rigorous and serve as the first 2 years of a 4 year college curriculum at a much lower cost .
And there are 4 year colleges that are diploma mills.Do n't get caught up in the label .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on the community college.
There are some that are academically rigorous and serve as the first 2 years of a 4 year college curriculum at a much lower cost.
And there are 4 year colleges that are diploma mills.Don't get caught up in the label.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189292</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed, some high school students already end up taking community college (or university) classes already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed , some high school students already end up taking community college ( or university ) classes already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed, some high school students already end up taking community college (or university) classes already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189228</id>
	<title>Thrown?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quoted in the write-up:</p><blockquote><div><p>"That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old."</p></div></blockquote><p>Nobody's talking about "throwing" anybody who isn't ready, just about making it an option for students who are.  Options are good, no?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quoted in the write-up : " That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
" Nobody 's talking about " throwing " anybody who is n't ready , just about making it an option for students who are .
Options are good , no ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quoted in the write-up:"That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
"Nobody's talking about "throwing" anybody who isn't ready, just about making it an option for students who are.
Options are good, no?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190672</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Ohio Calvinist</author>
	<datestamp>1266486540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Disclaimer: I am a community college instructor in California.

The difference is that community colleges already have the infrastructure to teach students who are below-college standard (e.g. have a high school diploma or GED but have serious deficiencies), tend to be more accessible, and are part of the larger K-14 state education system in the eyes of the state than the University system (K-16).

I've taught several students who take regular or remedial community college classes in lieu of normal or advanced high school classes simply to get college credit for the exact same knowledge they would get at high school. These students do this in order to cut costs of their general education curriculum or because their high schools are "gang infested hellholes" (to quote a student). They aren't taking community college classes in hopes of making into Harvard or Yale.

The problem with this system is that coordination has yet to provide a method where the student can meet 100\% of their high school requirements at the community college level. I would propose granting a conditional diploma after passing the High School Exit Exam (which I passed in 8th grade) that would become legit after passing a General Ed curriculum (24 units) that can transfer to a state-school and take less than a year full time, or 2 full time academic years to earn an associates while their peers are still in high school.

If you are smart enough to pass the benchmark exam, and disciplined enough to meet the GE requirements at the CC, and don't care about the "high school experience" (or downright dread it), this is a perfect way to utilize the resources efficiently and help these students rather than have them take high school classes to turn around and take the exact same class in college 2 years later.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I am a community college instructor in California .
The difference is that community colleges already have the infrastructure to teach students who are below-college standard ( e.g .
have a high school diploma or GED but have serious deficiencies ) , tend to be more accessible , and are part of the larger K-14 state education system in the eyes of the state than the University system ( K-16 ) .
I 've taught several students who take regular or remedial community college classes in lieu of normal or advanced high school classes simply to get college credit for the exact same knowledge they would get at high school .
These students do this in order to cut costs of their general education curriculum or because their high schools are " gang infested hellholes " ( to quote a student ) .
They are n't taking community college classes in hopes of making into Harvard or Yale .
The problem with this system is that coordination has yet to provide a method where the student can meet 100 \ % of their high school requirements at the community college level .
I would propose granting a conditional diploma after passing the High School Exit Exam ( which I passed in 8th grade ) that would become legit after passing a General Ed curriculum ( 24 units ) that can transfer to a state-school and take less than a year full time , or 2 full time academic years to earn an associates while their peers are still in high school .
If you are smart enough to pass the benchmark exam , and disciplined enough to meet the GE requirements at the CC , and do n't care about the " high school experience " ( or downright dread it ) , this is a perfect way to utilize the resources efficiently and help these students rather than have them take high school classes to turn around and take the exact same class in college 2 years later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer: I am a community college instructor in California.
The difference is that community colleges already have the infrastructure to teach students who are below-college standard (e.g.
have a high school diploma or GED but have serious deficiencies), tend to be more accessible, and are part of the larger K-14 state education system in the eyes of the state than the University system (K-16).
I've taught several students who take regular or remedial community college classes in lieu of normal or advanced high school classes simply to get college credit for the exact same knowledge they would get at high school.
These students do this in order to cut costs of their general education curriculum or because their high schools are "gang infested hellholes" (to quote a student).
They aren't taking community college classes in hopes of making into Harvard or Yale.
The problem with this system is that coordination has yet to provide a method where the student can meet 100\% of their high school requirements at the community college level.
I would propose granting a conditional diploma after passing the High School Exit Exam (which I passed in 8th grade) that would become legit after passing a General Ed curriculum (24 units) that can transfer to a state-school and take less than a year full time, or 2 full time academic years to earn an associates while their peers are still in high school.
If you are smart enough to pass the benchmark exam, and disciplined enough to meet the GE requirements at the CC, and don't care about the "high school experience" (or downright dread it), this is a perfect way to utilize the resources efficiently and help these students rather than have them take high school classes to turn around and take the exact same class in college 2 years later.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191686</id>
	<title>Just go to Community College while at HS</title>
	<author>mruizcamauer</author>
	<datestamp>1266490140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, I took a bunch of community college classes before graduating from HS, after hours, and got the credits. I took a bunch of Advanced Placement (AP) classes in high school and did not need to take those classes in college later. I don't see that you need to move out of high school entirely if you don't want to, yet can still get ahead.

Let people have several paths available:<p>

1) go to high school until the end, like today</p><p>

2) have fewer classes in hs so you can go to community college without having to do it after hours</p><p>

3) go to college early (like some people have always been able to do regardless of their age!) when hs has nothing left for you</p><p>

4) give these outstanding students more opportunities to do exchange semesters abroad. Now THAT will teach them really valuable things: languages, other cultures, and more rigorous high schools than in America (Japan, Germany, etc)</p><p>

Society DOES have to move on from the formula for the past 100 years. More than uniformity and conformity now we need self-starting people that can learn their whole lives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , I took a bunch of community college classes before graduating from HS , after hours , and got the credits .
I took a bunch of Advanced Placement ( AP ) classes in high school and did not need to take those classes in college later .
I do n't see that you need to move out of high school entirely if you do n't want to , yet can still get ahead .
Let people have several paths available : 1 ) go to high school until the end , like today 2 ) have fewer classes in hs so you can go to community college without having to do it after hours 3 ) go to college early ( like some people have always been able to do regardless of their age !
) when hs has nothing left for you 4 ) give these outstanding students more opportunities to do exchange semesters abroad .
Now THAT will teach them really valuable things : languages , other cultures , and more rigorous high schools than in America ( Japan , Germany , etc ) Society DOES have to move on from the formula for the past 100 years .
More than uniformity and conformity now we need self-starting people that can learn their whole lives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, I took a bunch of community college classes before graduating from HS, after hours, and got the credits.
I took a bunch of Advanced Placement (AP) classes in high school and did not need to take those classes in college later.
I don't see that you need to move out of high school entirely if you don't want to, yet can still get ahead.
Let people have several paths available:

1) go to high school until the end, like today

2) have fewer classes in hs so you can go to community college without having to do it after hours

3) go to college early (like some people have always been able to do regardless of their age!
) when hs has nothing left for you

4) give these outstanding students more opportunities to do exchange semesters abroad.
Now THAT will teach them really valuable things: languages, other cultures, and more rigorous high schools than in America (Japan, Germany, etc)

Society DOES have to move on from the formula for the past 100 years.
More than uniformity and conformity now we need self-starting people that can learn their whole lives.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189898</id>
	<title>Legal implications?</title>
	<author>VTSV</author>
	<datestamp>1266484620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm, does anyone else remember how much drinking and sex there was at college?  I'm sure mixing 23 year olds and 16 years olds into that pot is going to go over SO well...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , does anyone else remember how much drinking and sex there was at college ?
I 'm sure mixing 23 year olds and 16 years olds into that pot is going to go over SO well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, does anyone else remember how much drinking and sex there was at college?
I'm sure mixing 23 year olds and 16 years olds into that pot is going to go over SO well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191344</id>
	<title>Our state has a program like this already</title>
	<author>zeet</author>
	<datestamp>1266488700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called Running Start. You can substitute the last two years of high school with two years of community college and still receive a high school diploma. I graduated community college and high school at the same time. Then if you transfer to a state university or college you will already have your first two years of general education completed. It's a great program and basically costs nothing; the college receives the money that the high school would have received from the state anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called Running Start .
You can substitute the last two years of high school with two years of community college and still receive a high school diploma .
I graduated community college and high school at the same time .
Then if you transfer to a state university or college you will already have your first two years of general education completed .
It 's a great program and basically costs nothing ; the college receives the money that the high school would have received from the state anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called Running Start.
You can substitute the last two years of high school with two years of community college and still receive a high school diploma.
I graduated community college and high school at the same time.
Then if you transfer to a state university or college you will already have your first two years of general education completed.
It's a great program and basically costs nothing; the college receives the money that the high school would have received from the state anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189884</id>
	<title>Re:maturity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>' Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that '</p><p>Is absolutly right. I was a bright student who was in university at age 16 (well, very close to 17) here in NZ, and I was not mature enough. There was too much freedom and I didn't know how to handle it.</p><p>It screwed me up, and I WISH that I had been put into a couple of extra science programs, or computer programming courses rather than forced through with people who were clearly not in my age range.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>' Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that 'Is absolutly right .
I was a bright student who was in university at age 16 ( well , very close to 17 ) here in NZ , and I was not mature enough .
There was too much freedom and I did n't know how to handle it.It screwed me up , and I WISH that I had been put into a couple of extra science programs , or computer programming courses rather than forced through with people who were clearly not in my age range .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>' Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that 'Is absolutly right.
I was a bright student who was in university at age 16 (well, very close to 17) here in NZ, and I was not mature enough.
There was too much freedom and I didn't know how to handle it.It screwed me up, and I WISH that I had been put into a couple of extra science programs, or computer programming courses rather than forced through with people who were clearly not in my age range.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191040</id>
	<title>For many reasons!</title>
	<author>elnyka</author>
	<datestamp>1266487740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?  Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.  </p><p> <b>A community college does not have that environment</b>.</p></div><p>Bullshit. Depending on the type of community college you are referring to. I spent my freshman and sophomore years at Miami Dade College, the largest center of higher learning in the US, the top center for learning of English-as-a-Second-Language at an academic level (catering to many university students from around the world), with superb facilities and labs, decent AA and AS degrees.</p><p>

I got far more exposure and training in programming there than at the 4-year college I went after graduating from there. I shit you not. Its calculus, differential equations and physics classes were much better. We got full courses in x86 and mainframe assembler, programming with Mathematica, classes on expert systems, a full-time math/physics lab, theaters and fine arts stuff up to the wazoo. Broward Community College, a smaller community college in adjacent Broward county is not shabby either.</p><p>

There is nothing in these community colleges that lack in academic environments compared to most 4-year schools. There are many other community colleges out there that are the same. In many cases, it is better to take your freshmen and sophomore science science courses at a community college than at a 4-year university because a) they are of a better quality, and b) they are cheaper.</p><p>

Maybe you have never sat foot on a good community college or you went to a shitty one. But you are completely mistaken if you think the best chance to study at an academic environment is only at a 4-year school (sometimes it's just the opposite.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life , why on earth would you be going to community college ?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them , or get them to a college with an academic environment that will .
A community college does not have that environment.Bullshit .
Depending on the type of community college you are referring to .
I spent my freshman and sophomore years at Miami Dade College , the largest center of higher learning in the US , the top center for learning of English-as-a-Second-Language at an academic level ( catering to many university students from around the world ) , with superb facilities and labs , decent AA and AS degrees .
I got far more exposure and training in programming there than at the 4-year college I went after graduating from there .
I shit you not .
Its calculus , differential equations and physics classes were much better .
We got full courses in x86 and mainframe assembler , programming with Mathematica , classes on expert systems , a full-time math/physics lab , theaters and fine arts stuff up to the wazoo .
Broward Community College , a smaller community college in adjacent Broward county is not shabby either .
There is nothing in these community colleges that lack in academic environments compared to most 4-year schools .
There are many other community colleges out there that are the same .
In many cases , it is better to take your freshmen and sophomore science science courses at a community college than at a 4-year university because a ) they are of a better quality , and b ) they are cheaper .
Maybe you have never sat foot on a good community college or you went to a shitty one .
But you are completely mistaken if you think the best chance to study at an academic environment is only at a 4-year school ( sometimes it 's just the opposite .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.
A community college does not have that environment.Bullshit.
Depending on the type of community college you are referring to.
I spent my freshman and sophomore years at Miami Dade College, the largest center of higher learning in the US, the top center for learning of English-as-a-Second-Language at an academic level (catering to many university students from around the world), with superb facilities and labs, decent AA and AS degrees.
I got far more exposure and training in programming there than at the 4-year college I went after graduating from there.
I shit you not.
Its calculus, differential equations and physics classes were much better.
We got full courses in x86 and mainframe assembler, programming with Mathematica, classes on expert systems, a full-time math/physics lab, theaters and fine arts stuff up to the wazoo.
Broward Community College, a smaller community college in adjacent Broward county is not shabby either.
There is nothing in these community colleges that lack in academic environments compared to most 4-year schools.
There are many other community colleges out there that are the same.
In many cases, it is better to take your freshmen and sophomore science science courses at a community college than at a 4-year university because a) they are of a better quality, and b) they are cheaper.
Maybe you have never sat foot on a good community college or you went to a shitty one.
But you are completely mistaken if you think the best chance to study at an academic environment is only at a 4-year school (sometimes it's just the opposite.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189392</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>copponex</author>
	<datestamp>1266526380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there. This is an entirely different environment from American high schools, where attendance is compulsory, backed by the full force of truancy laws.</p><p>Trying to get everyone a good basic education has its merits, but in some other countries you choose at 16 whether you want to go to college or receive vocational training or leave school altogether. This seems to work out well for everyone.</p><p>And as someone who absolutely despised high school, I know I would have done much better mentally and academically, even at the worst community colleges. I doubt any university would have penalized me for attending college courses (even if poor by their standards) before I hit 18.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there .
This is an entirely different environment from American high schools , where attendance is compulsory , backed by the full force of truancy laws.Trying to get everyone a good basic education has its merits , but in some other countries you choose at 16 whether you want to go to college or receive vocational training or leave school altogether .
This seems to work out well for everyone.And as someone who absolutely despised high school , I know I would have done much better mentally and academically , even at the worst community colleges .
I doubt any university would have penalized me for attending college courses ( even if poor by their standards ) before I hit 18 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there.
This is an entirely different environment from American high schools, where attendance is compulsory, backed by the full force of truancy laws.Trying to get everyone a good basic education has its merits, but in some other countries you choose at 16 whether you want to go to college or receive vocational training or leave school altogether.
This seems to work out well for everyone.And as someone who absolutely despised high school, I know I would have done much better mentally and academically, even at the worst community colleges.
I doubt any university would have penalized me for attending college courses (even if poor by their standards) before I hit 18.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194652</id>
	<title>Obsession</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266506220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do stories about high school get the Slashdot collective so riled up?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do stories about high school get the Slashdot collective so riled up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do stories about high school get the Slashdot collective so riled up?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191054</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>stillnotelf</author>
	<datestamp>1266487800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in.  Yes, I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader...</p> </div><p>I had this problem too (although I think it was for scheduling reasons).  I took Algebra II years earlier than I was supposed to at the high school next door to my middle school; the problem is they put me in the remedial Algebra II class, populated by seniors who'd failed it before and/or HAD to pass to graduate.  I was probably the most (tongue-in-cheek) 'popular' kid in the class - the seniors knew I'd happily do the in-class group assignments for them if they'd shut up and get out of my way; I didn't mind doing it since it got done faster that way.  The teacher would warn me ahead of time when I should bring a book and sit in the back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in .
Yes , I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader... I had this problem too ( although I think it was for scheduling reasons ) .
I took Algebra II years earlier than I was supposed to at the high school next door to my middle school ; the problem is they put me in the remedial Algebra II class , populated by seniors who 'd failed it before and/or HAD to pass to graduate .
I was probably the most ( tongue-in-cheek ) 'popular ' kid in the class - the seniors knew I 'd happily do the in-class group assignments for them if they 'd shut up and get out of my way ; I did n't mind doing it since it got done faster that way .
The teacher would warn me ahead of time when I should bring a book and sit in the back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in.
Yes, I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader... I had this problem too (although I think it was for scheduling reasons).
I took Algebra II years earlier than I was supposed to at the high school next door to my middle school; the problem is they put me in the remedial Algebra II class, populated by seniors who'd failed it before and/or HAD to pass to graduate.
I was probably the most (tongue-in-cheek) 'popular' kid in the class - the seniors knew I'd happily do the in-class group assignments for them if they'd shut up and get out of my way; I didn't mind doing it since it got done faster that way.
The teacher would warn me ahead of time when I should bring a book and sit in the back.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195556</id>
	<title>Re:Poppycock!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266513000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I attended community college under the Running Start program as well.  My associate's degree has the same date as my high school diploma, so I think I was mature enough to handle it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I attended community college under the Running Start program as well .
My associate 's degree has the same date as my high school diploma , so I think I was mature enough to handle it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I attended community college under the Running Start program as well.
My associate's degree has the same date as my high school diploma, so I think I was mature enough to handle it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189366</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189516</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>natehoy</author>
	<datestamp>1266526680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Maine, so this has received some extra coverage here.  According to what I'm seeing, this is really targeting the kid who has no interest in going on to a 4-year college, but instead wants to jumpstart their career in a skilled or semi-skilled trade (auto mechanic, plumber, etc).</p><p>There's also an additional benefit - it identifies weaknesses in those kids that fail the boards, and part of the plan is to focus on subject areas that specific kids are weak on.  So if you did well in English on the boards but flunked Math, they might give you more Math classes in 11th grade and back off on the English classes.  The target being a student who is well-rounded enough to pass all segments of the board exam.</p><p>In some ways, it divides the kids between those who want to continue on with education, and those who want to get education over with as quickly as possible (for one of many reasons) and get on with a career.  It almost turns high school into a 2-year or 4-year option, much like college is today.</p><p>Those who want a 4-year+ degree will stay in high school and go on the Advanced Placement track like they do today.</p><p>Those who do not can take the board exams in 10th grade and, if they pass, they can go to community college or start their careers, with a valid high school diploma.  They can continue on to the 11th and 12th grades if they wish, or if they fail the board exam the areas they failed in can be focused on.</p><p>Yes, to a point, this is "teaching to the test", and there are some valid concerns surrounding that.  But I'm not entirely convinced it's any worse than "teaching to a grade", and at least those kids that want out and are willing to work hard can get out with a diploma.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Maine , so this has received some extra coverage here .
According to what I 'm seeing , this is really targeting the kid who has no interest in going on to a 4-year college , but instead wants to jumpstart their career in a skilled or semi-skilled trade ( auto mechanic , plumber , etc ) .There 's also an additional benefit - it identifies weaknesses in those kids that fail the boards , and part of the plan is to focus on subject areas that specific kids are weak on .
So if you did well in English on the boards but flunked Math , they might give you more Math classes in 11th grade and back off on the English classes .
The target being a student who is well-rounded enough to pass all segments of the board exam.In some ways , it divides the kids between those who want to continue on with education , and those who want to get education over with as quickly as possible ( for one of many reasons ) and get on with a career .
It almost turns high school into a 2-year or 4-year option , much like college is today.Those who want a 4-year + degree will stay in high school and go on the Advanced Placement track like they do today.Those who do not can take the board exams in 10th grade and , if they pass , they can go to community college or start their careers , with a valid high school diploma .
They can continue on to the 11th and 12th grades if they wish , or if they fail the board exam the areas they failed in can be focused on.Yes , to a point , this is " teaching to the test " , and there are some valid concerns surrounding that .
But I 'm not entirely convinced it 's any worse than " teaching to a grade " , and at least those kids that want out and are willing to work hard can get out with a diploma .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Maine, so this has received some extra coverage here.
According to what I'm seeing, this is really targeting the kid who has no interest in going on to a 4-year college, but instead wants to jumpstart their career in a skilled or semi-skilled trade (auto mechanic, plumber, etc).There's also an additional benefit - it identifies weaknesses in those kids that fail the boards, and part of the plan is to focus on subject areas that specific kids are weak on.
So if you did well in English on the boards but flunked Math, they might give you more Math classes in 11th grade and back off on the English classes.
The target being a student who is well-rounded enough to pass all segments of the board exam.In some ways, it divides the kids between those who want to continue on with education, and those who want to get education over with as quickly as possible (for one of many reasons) and get on with a career.
It almost turns high school into a 2-year or 4-year option, much like college is today.Those who want a 4-year+ degree will stay in high school and go on the Advanced Placement track like they do today.Those who do not can take the board exams in 10th grade and, if they pass, they can go to community college or start their careers, with a valid high school diploma.
They can continue on to the 11th and 12th grades if they wish, or if they fail the board exam the areas they failed in can be focused on.Yes, to a point, this is "teaching to the test", and there are some valid concerns surrounding that.
But I'm not entirely convinced it's any worse than "teaching to a grade", and at least those kids that want out and are willing to work hard can get out with a diploma.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189572</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>Nos.</author>
	<datestamp>1266483600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, 20 years down the road it won't likely make a huge difference in their lives, as far as what year they graduated, be it from high school or from college.  However, what would the effect be now, and over the next 5 years.</p><p>I like to think of myself as smart.  I took the advanced courses in high school, all the sciences, etc.  I did very well in subjects that interested me, and above average in the rest.  I'd like to think I would have been eligible for this type of program.</p><p>So high school went well, at least on paper.  For me however, it was incredibly boring.  Very few classes challenged me at all.  The best classes were ones like physics where I spent most of my time helping the two girls behind me get through the work (the teacher was more than happy to let me help them out).  All in all though, I did not enjoy school because I was bored.  When I graduated, the last thing I wanted to do was to keep going, but I took my first year because I could do it in my home town.</p><p>After that year, I was done.  I took a year off because I really hated "education".  When I did go back, I didn't put in the effort I should have.  I fell from all As to Bs and Cs.  I didn't even care that much.  After three years, I was offered some temporary work consulting, which turned into a year, then two, and as you could expect, I never went back.  So I didn't get my degree.  It hasn't really hurt my career at all.  I'm in a senior tech position, making a very good salary.</p><p>However, had I been able to skip two years of high school, and jump right into more advanced work where I was being challenged, I likely would have finished my degree and had that paper now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , 20 years down the road it wo n't likely make a huge difference in their lives , as far as what year they graduated , be it from high school or from college .
However , what would the effect be now , and over the next 5 years.I like to think of myself as smart .
I took the advanced courses in high school , all the sciences , etc .
I did very well in subjects that interested me , and above average in the rest .
I 'd like to think I would have been eligible for this type of program.So high school went well , at least on paper .
For me however , it was incredibly boring .
Very few classes challenged me at all .
The best classes were ones like physics where I spent most of my time helping the two girls behind me get through the work ( the teacher was more than happy to let me help them out ) .
All in all though , I did not enjoy school because I was bored .
When I graduated , the last thing I wanted to do was to keep going , but I took my first year because I could do it in my home town.After that year , I was done .
I took a year off because I really hated " education " .
When I did go back , I did n't put in the effort I should have .
I fell from all As to Bs and Cs .
I did n't even care that much .
After three years , I was offered some temporary work consulting , which turned into a year , then two , and as you could expect , I never went back .
So I did n't get my degree .
It has n't really hurt my career at all .
I 'm in a senior tech position , making a very good salary.However , had I been able to skip two years of high school , and jump right into more advanced work where I was being challenged , I likely would have finished my degree and had that paper now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, 20 years down the road it won't likely make a huge difference in their lives, as far as what year they graduated, be it from high school or from college.
However, what would the effect be now, and over the next 5 years.I like to think of myself as smart.
I took the advanced courses in high school, all the sciences, etc.
I did very well in subjects that interested me, and above average in the rest.
I'd like to think I would have been eligible for this type of program.So high school went well, at least on paper.
For me however, it was incredibly boring.
Very few classes challenged me at all.
The best classes were ones like physics where I spent most of my time helping the two girls behind me get through the work (the teacher was more than happy to let me help them out).
All in all though, I did not enjoy school because I was bored.
When I graduated, the last thing I wanted to do was to keep going, but I took my first year because I could do it in my home town.After that year, I was done.
I took a year off because I really hated "education".
When I did go back, I didn't put in the effort I should have.
I fell from all As to Bs and Cs.
I didn't even care that much.
After three years, I was offered some temporary work consulting, which turned into a year, then two, and as you could expect, I never went back.
So I didn't get my degree.
It hasn't really hurt my career at all.
I'm in a senior tech position, making a very good salary.However, had I been able to skip two years of high school, and jump right into more advanced work where I was being challenged, I likely would have finished my degree and had that paper now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194662</id>
	<title>Re:It's all about individual cases</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1266506220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You may be "social", but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be "social". Look at the way you introduced yourself. QED.</p></div></blockquote><p>What's your point?  The most social guy I know (large circle of friends, lots of parties -- if you drew one of those connection diagrams he'd be a hub) is also obnoxious and annoying.  Seems to work for him.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You may be " social " , but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be " social " .
Look at the way you introduced yourself .
QED.What 's your point ?
The most social guy I know ( large circle of friends , lots of parties -- if you drew one of those connection diagrams he 'd be a hub ) is also obnoxious and annoying .
Seems to work for him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may be "social", but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be "social".
Look at the way you introduced yourself.
QED.What's your point?
The most social guy I know (large circle of friends, lots of parties -- if you drew one of those connection diagrams he'd be a hub) is also obnoxious and annoying.
Seems to work for him.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195128</id>
	<title>When i ask when...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266509340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are people gonna accept their kids shortcommings and take the blame for once, if my kid doesnt have good grades or has bad behavior, gues whos to blame? me and only me for not kicking his a** every time hes disrespectful or has a fit cuz he cant watch a generic stupid reality show</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are people gon na accept their kids shortcommings and take the blame for once , if my kid doesnt have good grades or has bad behavior , gues whos to blame ?
me and only me for not kicking his a * * every time hes disrespectful or has a fit cuz he cant watch a generic stupid reality show</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are people gonna accept their kids shortcommings and take the blame for once, if my kid doesnt have good grades or has bad behavior, gues whos to blame?
me and only me for not kicking his a** every time hes disrespectful or has a fit cuz he cant watch a generic stupid reality show</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192142</id>
	<title>Nuts!</title>
	<author>b4upoo</author>
	<datestamp>1266492060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>        Geez, these people are not getting the message at all. The world has changed and yesterdays idea of a high school education is not good enough at all. Frankly the current crops of graduates are no where near what graduates from 1900 up until about 1965 were in knowledge or abilities. And that is no where near what is now needed. Frankly we need college (old school) level classes clear down into the eighth grade level. By the time a high school student reaches anything near diploma time physics, chemistry, calculus, trig and algebra need to be completed as well as far greater mastery of the liberal arts. And that includes the kids who only want to plant pickles or raise hogs or what ever.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We now have no way to coax or baby sit students. Keep the ones that have a burning desire to learn and boot the rest into the salt mines, prisons or ditch digging positions of their choice. If it can't behave kick it out.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Make no mistake. If we do not have academic superiority we will be lunch for China,Japan,Taiwan or any number of not so touchy,feely nations that would like to roast us alive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Geez , these people are not getting the message at all .
The world has changed and yesterdays idea of a high school education is not good enough at all .
Frankly the current crops of graduates are no where near what graduates from 1900 up until about 1965 were in knowledge or abilities .
And that is no where near what is now needed .
Frankly we need college ( old school ) level classes clear down into the eighth grade level .
By the time a high school student reaches anything near diploma time physics , chemistry , calculus , trig and algebra need to be completed as well as far greater mastery of the liberal arts .
And that includes the kids who only want to plant pickles or raise hogs or what ever .
              We now have no way to coax or baby sit students .
Keep the ones that have a burning desire to learn and boot the rest into the salt mines , prisons or ditch digging positions of their choice .
If it ca n't behave kick it out .
              Make no mistake .
If we do not have academic superiority we will be lunch for China,Japan,Taiwan or any number of not so touchy,feely nations that would like to roast us alive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>        Geez, these people are not getting the message at all.
The world has changed and yesterdays idea of a high school education is not good enough at all.
Frankly the current crops of graduates are no where near what graduates from 1900 up until about 1965 were in knowledge or abilities.
And that is no where near what is now needed.
Frankly we need college (old school) level classes clear down into the eighth grade level.
By the time a high school student reaches anything near diploma time physics, chemistry, calculus, trig and algebra need to be completed as well as far greater mastery of the liberal arts.
And that includes the kids who only want to plant pickles or raise hogs or what ever.
              We now have no way to coax or baby sit students.
Keep the ones that have a burning desire to learn and boot the rest into the salt mines, prisons or ditch digging positions of their choice.
If it can't behave kick it out.
              Make no mistake.
If we do not have academic superiority we will be lunch for China,Japan,Taiwan or any number of not so touchy,feely nations that would like to roast us alive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191074</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266487860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the reason 16 year olds are more likely to wreck cars is because the average sixteen year old has been driving for less than a year. The average 19 year old has probably been driving for about 3.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the reason 16 year olds are more likely to wreck cars is because the average sixteen year old has been driving for less than a year .
The average 19 year old has probably been driving for about 3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the reason 16 year olds are more likely to wreck cars is because the average sixteen year old has been driving for less than a year.
The average 19 year old has probably been driving for about 3.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189332</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Maniacal</author>
	<datestamp>1266526260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.  Plus, this is only going to be a problem for the "pioneers" of the program.  Colleges only have an abundance of 18 to 23 year olds because of the way the system is structured.  If they were to change to this new system colleges are going to be full of 16 to 23 year olds in no time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Plus , this is only going to be a problem for the " pioneers " of the program .
Colleges only have an abundance of 18 to 23 year olds because of the way the system is structured .
If they were to change to this new system colleges are going to be full of 16 to 23 year olds in no time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Plus, this is only going to be a problem for the "pioneers" of the program.
Colleges only have an abundance of 18 to 23 year olds because of the way the system is structured.
If they were to change to this new system colleges are going to be full of 16 to 23 year olds in no time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191018</id>
	<title>Re:Thrown?</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1266487620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is too much babying kids instead of expecting more maturity and treating them that way earlier in their lives.  In earlier times you could be married by 13.  There are kids that old today fighting wars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is too much babying kids instead of expecting more maturity and treating them that way earlier in their lives .
In earlier times you could be married by 13 .
There are kids that old today fighting wars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is too much babying kids instead of expecting more maturity and treating them that way earlier in their lives.
In earlier times you could be married by 13.
There are kids that old today fighting wars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195826</id>
	<title>Already in place in Texas</title>
	<author>ImNotAtWork</author>
	<datestamp>1266516180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Similar type program is already in place in Texas

<a href="http://www.tams.unt.edu/" title="unt.edu">http://www.tams.unt.edu/</a> [unt.edu]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Similar type program is already in place in Texas http : //www.tams.unt.edu/ [ unt.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Similar type program is already in place in Texas

http://www.tams.unt.edu/ [unt.edu]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189356</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>subsonic</author>
	<datestamp>1266526320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A community college is a strange beast... kind of like vaudeville, its either people moving up and out, or down and out...  If you look at is as "college minor leagues" then maybe there is a good point to be made.  They will be presented with college-level (or near college-level, depending on your aspirations) classes but still live at home.  One of the most valuable aspects in any career is experience, and if you can get more experience than sitting on your butt in high school for two years, that's two years you could be apprenticing or taking core classes that will allow to jump head first into the next step of your studies.</p><p>I can see this having a positive effect, as there may just be those "driven underachievers" who would put in the effort just get out of HS early and on with the next thing in their life (hopefully skilled trades).  It certainly beats letting kids just drop out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A community college is a strange beast... kind of like vaudeville , its either people moving up and out , or down and out... If you look at is as " college minor leagues " then maybe there is a good point to be made .
They will be presented with college-level ( or near college-level , depending on your aspirations ) classes but still live at home .
One of the most valuable aspects in any career is experience , and if you can get more experience than sitting on your butt in high school for two years , that 's two years you could be apprenticing or taking core classes that will allow to jump head first into the next step of your studies.I can see this having a positive effect , as there may just be those " driven underachievers " who would put in the effort just get out of HS early and on with the next thing in their life ( hopefully skilled trades ) .
It certainly beats letting kids just drop out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A community college is a strange beast... kind of like vaudeville, its either people moving up and out, or down and out...  If you look at is as "college minor leagues" then maybe there is a good point to be made.
They will be presented with college-level (or near college-level, depending on your aspirations) classes but still live at home.
One of the most valuable aspects in any career is experience, and if you can get more experience than sitting on your butt in high school for two years, that's two years you could be apprenticing or taking core classes that will allow to jump head first into the next step of your studies.I can see this having a positive effect, as there may just be those "driven underachievers" who would put in the effort just get out of HS early and on with the next thing in their life (hopefully skilled trades).
It certainly beats letting kids just drop out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189740</id>
	<title>Re:maturity?</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1266484140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work at a college.  You would be scared to meet the parents of the kids enrolling there.  you'd think little johnny was 12, not 19.  Hell, most 18 year olds aren't mature enough, but you know what, eventually, they become that way, or they drop out.  Not everybody gets to be an astronaut when they grow up (I say as I look at my demotivational poster)</p><p>I started college at 16 part time, found things like WRI121 incredibly easy, compared to AP English, which would have gotten me the same credits.. In fact, by the time I graduated high school, I had enough credits to get to other schools Transfer requirements, which are often much different than admissions requirements.</p><p>But damn.  At 17, my grandpa and his buddies lied about their ages so they could fight in a war.  And now, we can't have kids in classes with people a few years older then them?  Boy do I feel alot older than I am..  I'm starting to sound like my Grandpa.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work at a college .
You would be scared to meet the parents of the kids enrolling there .
you 'd think little johnny was 12 , not 19 .
Hell , most 18 year olds are n't mature enough , but you know what , eventually , they become that way , or they drop out .
Not everybody gets to be an astronaut when they grow up ( I say as I look at my demotivational poster ) I started college at 16 part time , found things like WRI121 incredibly easy , compared to AP English , which would have gotten me the same credits.. In fact , by the time I graduated high school , I had enough credits to get to other schools Transfer requirements , which are often much different than admissions requirements.But damn .
At 17 , my grandpa and his buddies lied about their ages so they could fight in a war .
And now , we ca n't have kids in classes with people a few years older then them ?
Boy do I feel alot older than I am.. I 'm starting to sound like my Grandpa .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work at a college.
You would be scared to meet the parents of the kids enrolling there.
you'd think little johnny was 12, not 19.
Hell, most 18 year olds aren't mature enough, but you know what, eventually, they become that way, or they drop out.
Not everybody gets to be an astronaut when they grow up (I say as I look at my demotivational poster)I started college at 16 part time, found things like WRI121 incredibly easy, compared to AP English, which would have gotten me the same credits.. In fact, by the time I graduated high school, I had enough credits to get to other schools Transfer requirements, which are often much different than admissions requirements.But damn.
At 17, my grandpa and his buddies lied about their ages so they could fight in a war.
And now, we can't have kids in classes with people a few years older then them?
Boy do I feel alot older than I am..  I'm starting to sound like my Grandpa.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193370</id>
	<title>I did this.  I don't recommend it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266498240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Johns Hopkins University had a program called the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth (SMPY).  The state of Maryland selected the top<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.1\% of 7th grade kids on the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills for further testing, and Johns Hopkins provided the best-scoring 30 or so of us with advanced courses, both at JHU and at local community colleges.  Most of us entered college at 15 or 16 (I was 15.)</p><p>It was, in the end, a mistake.  I think most of the kids in the group weren't ready for college, and a lot of us didn't do as well as we might have with a couple of more years social experience behind us.</p><p>JHU stopped doing this 20 years ago.</p><p>There are some success stories, and some ok stories, and some really bad stories.  I just don't think it's worth it.</p><p>Thad</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Johns Hopkins University had a program called the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth ( SMPY ) .
The state of Maryland selected the top .1 \ % of 7th grade kids on the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills for further testing , and Johns Hopkins provided the best-scoring 30 or so of us with advanced courses , both at JHU and at local community colleges .
Most of us entered college at 15 or 16 ( I was 15 .
) It was , in the end , a mistake .
I think most of the kids in the group were n't ready for college , and a lot of us did n't do as well as we might have with a couple of more years social experience behind us.JHU stopped doing this 20 years ago.There are some success stories , and some ok stories , and some really bad stories .
I just do n't think it 's worth it.Thad</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Johns Hopkins University had a program called the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth (SMPY).
The state of Maryland selected the top .1\% of 7th grade kids on the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills for further testing, and Johns Hopkins provided the best-scoring 30 or so of us with advanced courses, both at JHU and at local community colleges.
Most of us entered college at 15 or 16 (I was 15.
)It was, in the end, a mistake.
I think most of the kids in the group weren't ready for college, and a lot of us didn't do as well as we might have with a couple of more years social experience behind us.JHU stopped doing this 20 years ago.There are some success stories, and some ok stories, and some really bad stories.
I just don't think it's worth it.Thad</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190130</id>
	<title>need to cut middle grades, not end grades</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1266485220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I learned things in the first few grades and in high school.
I remember the grades 5-8 as kind of a mental wasteland.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I learned things in the first few grades and in high school .
I remember the grades 5-8 as kind of a mental wasteland .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I learned things in the first few grades and in high school.
I remember the grades 5-8 as kind of a mental wasteland.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191784</id>
	<title>Great idea, but...</title>
	<author>baby\_robots</author>
	<datestamp>1266490560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are plenty of 16 year olds that can handle college.  But, the problem is there are not many 20 year olds that can handle the real world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of 16 year olds that can handle college .
But , the problem is there are not many 20 year olds that can handle the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of 16 year olds that can handle college.
But, the problem is there are not many 20 year olds that can handle the real world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189750</id>
	<title>I've got another plan that lets you graduate early</title>
	<author>Pojut</author>
	<datestamp>1266484200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called a GED.  Unless you are trying to get into law school or medical school right out of high school, a GED is all that you need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called a GED .
Unless you are trying to get into law school or medical school right out of high school , a GED is all that you need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called a GED.
Unless you are trying to get into law school or medical school right out of high school, a GED is all that you need.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190654</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>MrLogic17</author>
	<datestamp>1266486480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll second that.</p><p>I was home-schooled from 7th grade forward and managed to graduate High School in 3 years.  It turns out I was studying subjects a little too aggressively, and was accidentally able to complete all requirements in 3 years.  Had I actually wanted to be aggressive, a 2 year plan wouldn't have been that hard.</p><p>I had a full-time job with part-time college for a year.  Then went to full-time college.  Long story short, I found that college was costing me too much time &amp; money preparing me for a career I already had.</p><p>There is so much wasted time in "formal education" that could be used productively.  I'm all for ways to speed up &amp; opt out.</p><p>(Yes, I got my degree, but while working full-time.  I consider it almost entirely useless &amp; pointless- except that most employers expect you to have a 4-year degree for any real job.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll second that.I was home-schooled from 7th grade forward and managed to graduate High School in 3 years .
It turns out I was studying subjects a little too aggressively , and was accidentally able to complete all requirements in 3 years .
Had I actually wanted to be aggressive , a 2 year plan would n't have been that hard.I had a full-time job with part-time college for a year .
Then went to full-time college .
Long story short , I found that college was costing me too much time &amp; money preparing me for a career I already had.There is so much wasted time in " formal education " that could be used productively .
I 'm all for ways to speed up &amp; opt out .
( Yes , I got my degree , but while working full-time .
I consider it almost entirely useless &amp; pointless- except that most employers expect you to have a 4-year degree for any real job .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll second that.I was home-schooled from 7th grade forward and managed to graduate High School in 3 years.
It turns out I was studying subjects a little too aggressively, and was accidentally able to complete all requirements in 3 years.
Had I actually wanted to be aggressive, a 2 year plan wouldn't have been that hard.I had a full-time job with part-time college for a year.
Then went to full-time college.
Long story short, I found that college was costing me too much time &amp; money preparing me for a career I already had.There is so much wasted time in "formal education" that could be used productively.
I'm all for ways to speed up &amp; opt out.
(Yes, I got my degree, but while working full-time.
I consider it almost entirely useless &amp; pointless- except that most employers expect you to have a 4-year degree for any real job.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189266</id>
	<title>Good option to have, but...</title>
	<author>phormalitize</author>
	<datestamp>1266526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hope that people don't start pushing kids into this option too hard - there are a lot of benefits to waiting until you are a little older to start college.  I hated high school and couldn't wait to get to college, but in retrospect I'm definitely glad I followed the standard path.  College can be the turning point for a lot of kids who have trouble socially in high school, where they're able to make connections and feel comfortable in lots of settings.  I don't know if that would be nearly as easy if you were set too far apart by your age.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope that people do n't start pushing kids into this option too hard - there are a lot of benefits to waiting until you are a little older to start college .
I hated high school and could n't wait to get to college , but in retrospect I 'm definitely glad I followed the standard path .
College can be the turning point for a lot of kids who have trouble socially in high school , where they 're able to make connections and feel comfortable in lots of settings .
I do n't know if that would be nearly as easy if you were set too far apart by your age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope that people don't start pushing kids into this option too hard - there are a lot of benefits to waiting until you are a little older to start college.
I hated high school and couldn't wait to get to college, but in retrospect I'm definitely glad I followed the standard path.
College can be the turning point for a lot of kids who have trouble socially in high school, where they're able to make connections and feel comfortable in lots of settings.
I don't know if that would be nearly as easy if you were set too far apart by your age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189680</id>
	<title>This should be how all schools work</title>
	<author>aztektum</author>
	<datestamp>1266483900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a student is performing well, give them higher level content. This "everyone is the same because we say so" and keeping a linear structure to learning for all is asinine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a student is performing well , give them higher level content .
This " everyone is the same because we say so " and keeping a linear structure to learning for all is asinine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a student is performing well, give them higher level content.
This "everyone is the same because we say so" and keeping a linear structure to learning for all is asinine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191396</id>
	<title>It's all about money.</title>
	<author>happy\_place</author>
	<datestamp>1266488940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The motive to get rid of two years of highschool is enticing right now--especially to bankrupt state legislatures. This is all about cost-savings. In a way it makes sense. Universities have huge computer labs (compared to High schools) and fascilities for every speciality, yet, with a highschool in order to provide any sort of specific education requires a lot of money. Multiply that by how many highschools there are in a state (which greatly outnumbers the number of universities in the state) and presto! Instant reduction in operating costs for schools. No need to hire better teachers if the level of education remains remedial...</htmltext>
<tokenext>The motive to get rid of two years of highschool is enticing right now--especially to bankrupt state legislatures .
This is all about cost-savings .
In a way it makes sense .
Universities have huge computer labs ( compared to High schools ) and fascilities for every speciality , yet , with a highschool in order to provide any sort of specific education requires a lot of money .
Multiply that by how many highschools there are in a state ( which greatly outnumbers the number of universities in the state ) and presto !
Instant reduction in operating costs for schools .
No need to hire better teachers if the level of education remains remedial.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The motive to get rid of two years of highschool is enticing right now--especially to bankrupt state legislatures.
This is all about cost-savings.
In a way it makes sense.
Universities have huge computer labs (compared to High schools) and fascilities for every speciality, yet, with a highschool in order to provide any sort of specific education requires a lot of money.
Multiply that by how many highschools there are in a state (which greatly outnumbers the number of universities in the state) and presto!
Instant reduction in operating costs for schools.
No need to hire better teachers if the level of education remains remedial...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191392</id>
	<title>What a great idea!</title>
	<author>wonkavader</author>
	<datestamp>1266488940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The kid graduates two years early, and gets a job for a few years so as to claim independence for financial aid.  Colleges are gonna love this.  (HA!)</p><p>But high school's not primarily about learning, anyhow: It's about sitting on kids until their hormones stop making them insane.  This way they don't waste two years doing almost nothing.</p><p>The question is, how do we keep them from going to college right away, lacking the social skills needed to get much beyond academics out of the experience?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The kid graduates two years early , and gets a job for a few years so as to claim independence for financial aid .
Colleges are gon na love this .
( HA ! ) But high school 's not primarily about learning , anyhow : It 's about sitting on kids until their hormones stop making them insane .
This way they do n't waste two years doing almost nothing.The question is , how do we keep them from going to college right away , lacking the social skills needed to get much beyond academics out of the experience ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The kid graduates two years early, and gets a job for a few years so as to claim independence for financial aid.
Colleges are gonna love this.
(HA!)But high school's not primarily about learning, anyhow: It's about sitting on kids until their hormones stop making them insane.
This way they don't waste two years doing almost nothing.The question is, how do we keep them from going to college right away, lacking the social skills needed to get much beyond academics out of the experience?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190470</id>
	<title>About time</title>
	<author>edraven</author>
	<datestamp>1266486060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wish they'd had this when <i>I</i> was in the third grade...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wish they 'd had this when I was in the third grade.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wish they'd had this when I was in the third grade...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191748</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266490380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about.</p><p>If you're claiming math teachers don't care about calculus, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the problem was you, not the teachers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Engineers and math people generally ca n't teach worth a damn , even less so in subjects they do n't care about.If you 're claiming math teachers do n't care about calculus , I 'm going to go out on a limb here and say the problem was you , not the teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about.If you're claiming math teachers don't care about calculus, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the problem was you, not the teachers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189966</id>
	<title>Re:It's all about individual cases</title>
	<author>d474</author>
	<datestamp>1266484800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14.  Graduated at 19, Summa Cum Laude with a B.S. in engineering.  Masters from Purdue at 21. I'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.</p><p>Believe it or not, I am extremely social!</p></div><p>You may be "social", but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be "social".  Look at the way you introduced yourself.  QED.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14 .
Graduated at 19 , Summa Cum Laude with a B.S .
in engineering .
Masters from Purdue at 21 .
I 'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.Believe it or not , I am extremely social ! You may be " social " , but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be " social " .
Look at the way you introduced yourself .
QED .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14.
Graduated at 19, Summa Cum Laude with a B.S.
in engineering.
Masters from Purdue at 21.
I'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.Believe it or not, I am extremely social!You may be "social", but I guarantee most people find you obnoxious and annoying when you are trying to be "social".
Look at the way you introduced yourself.
QED.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193188</id>
	<title>Athletics...?</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1266497160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., so, no, I didn't RTFA, but what about athletic eligibility for high school sports?  Not all AP kids are athletic rejects; some excel in both academics \_and\_ sports.  So, if Johnny skips 11th and 12th grade to go to college, can he still come back and wrestle on the high school team?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is /. , so , no , I did n't RTFA , but what about athletic eligibility for high school sports ?
Not all AP kids are athletic rejects ; some excel in both academics \ _and \ _ sports .
So , if Johnny skips 11th and 12th grade to go to college , can he still come back and wrestle on the high school team ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is /., so, no, I didn't RTFA, but what about athletic eligibility for high school sports?
Not all AP kids are athletic rejects; some excel in both academics \_and\_ sports.
So, if Johnny skips 11th and 12th grade to go to college, can he still come back and wrestle on the high school team?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</id>
	<title>Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>pwnies</author>
	<datestamp>1266525420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,</p></div><p>Exactly. That's why we're only sending the top students. There will always be outliers who will be able to fit in at a collegeriate level when they're 16. That's the whole point of this program. <br>
Our worry shouldn't be whether or not they can fit in at that level (I know plenty of 16 year olds who have a better head on their shoulders than many college freshmen). Rather, our concern should be whether or not we have an accurate way of determining if a particular student is ready to move on. What we have to ensure is that this program doesn't fall prey to overzealous parents - especially in the "everyone is a winner" mentality that we currently possess in America. I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of "my child shouldn't be discriminated against. (S)he should be able to head to college too at this grade!" They're going to have to be ready for that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,Exactly .
That 's why we 're only sending the top students .
There will always be outliers who will be able to fit in at a collegeriate level when they 're 16 .
That 's the whole point of this program .
Our worry should n't be whether or not they can fit in at that level ( I know plenty of 16 year olds who have a better head on their shoulders than many college freshmen ) .
Rather , our concern should be whether or not we have an accurate way of determining if a particular student is ready to move on .
What we have to ensure is that this program does n't fall prey to overzealous parents - especially in the " everyone is a winner " mentality that we currently possess in America .
I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of " my child should n't be discriminated against .
( S ) he should be able to head to college too at this grade !
" They 're going to have to be ready for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,Exactly.
That's why we're only sending the top students.
There will always be outliers who will be able to fit in at a collegeriate level when they're 16.
That's the whole point of this program.
Our worry shouldn't be whether or not they can fit in at that level (I know plenty of 16 year olds who have a better head on their shoulders than many college freshmen).
Rather, our concern should be whether or not we have an accurate way of determining if a particular student is ready to move on.
What we have to ensure is that this program doesn't fall prey to overzealous parents - especially in the "everyone is a winner" mentality that we currently possess in America.
I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of "my child shouldn't be discriminated against.
(S)he should be able to head to college too at this grade!
" They're going to have to be ready for that.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190502</id>
	<title>It's already being done in Washington state</title>
	<author>stalefries</author>
	<datestamp>1266486120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Washington state already has a very successful program called Running Start that is very similar to this proposal. Starting their junior year, high schoolers are allowed to attend a community college instead of (or in addition to) their local high school, all paid for by public school funding. I had the great opportunity to participate in a program at my local CC called <a href="http://www.everettcc.edu/orca" title="everettcc.edu" rel="nofollow">Ocean Research College Academy</a> [everettcc.edu]. ORCA gave me the opportunity to earn my Associates Degree while I finished high school (with college courses standing in as equivalents for high school requirements), all while having actual scientific research experience. Heck, recently they started maintaining <a href="http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Puget-Sound-Gets-New-Alarm-System-82646237.html" title="king5.com" rel="nofollow">an underwater monitoring station</a> [king5.com] for the State Department of Ecology.</p><p>(Commentor medeii gives a better explanation of Running Start <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1555262&amp;cid=31189878" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">above</a> [slashdot.org].)</p><p>Of course, there's the concern that students doing this may be brain-smart, but might lack the emotional and social skills gained in a high school environment. Some of my own family made that concern clear to me when I applied for this program. However, because of the nature of ORCA (where students have to make an effort to apply and be accepted), the students there were predominantly highly-motivated and socially capable. </p><p>Anyway, I got a terrific education, earned an AA degree while I was still in high school, and got 2 years of tuition paid for by the public school system. Also I made some awesome friends. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Washington state already has a very successful program called Running Start that is very similar to this proposal .
Starting their junior year , high schoolers are allowed to attend a community college instead of ( or in addition to ) their local high school , all paid for by public school funding .
I had the great opportunity to participate in a program at my local CC called Ocean Research College Academy [ everettcc.edu ] .
ORCA gave me the opportunity to earn my Associates Degree while I finished high school ( with college courses standing in as equivalents for high school requirements ) , all while having actual scientific research experience .
Heck , recently they started maintaining an underwater monitoring station [ king5.com ] for the State Department of Ecology .
( Commentor medeii gives a better explanation of Running Start above [ slashdot.org ] .
) Of course , there 's the concern that students doing this may be brain-smart , but might lack the emotional and social skills gained in a high school environment .
Some of my own family made that concern clear to me when I applied for this program .
However , because of the nature of ORCA ( where students have to make an effort to apply and be accepted ) , the students there were predominantly highly-motivated and socially capable .
Anyway , I got a terrific education , earned an AA degree while I was still in high school , and got 2 years of tuition paid for by the public school system .
Also I made some awesome friends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Washington state already has a very successful program called Running Start that is very similar to this proposal.
Starting their junior year, high schoolers are allowed to attend a community college instead of (or in addition to) their local high school, all paid for by public school funding.
I had the great opportunity to participate in a program at my local CC called Ocean Research College Academy [everettcc.edu].
ORCA gave me the opportunity to earn my Associates Degree while I finished high school (with college courses standing in as equivalents for high school requirements), all while having actual scientific research experience.
Heck, recently they started maintaining an underwater monitoring station [king5.com] for the State Department of Ecology.
(Commentor medeii gives a better explanation of Running Start above [slashdot.org].
)Of course, there's the concern that students doing this may be brain-smart, but might lack the emotional and social skills gained in a high school environment.
Some of my own family made that concern clear to me when I applied for this program.
However, because of the nature of ORCA (where students have to make an effort to apply and be accepted), the students there were predominantly highly-motivated and socially capable.
Anyway, I got a terrific education, earned an AA degree while I was still in high school, and got 2 years of tuition paid for by the public school system.
Also I made some awesome friends. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191424</id>
	<title>Re:How about wait 2 years to go to College anyway?</title>
	<author>Zamerick</author>
	<datestamp>1266489060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>heh. You mean something like the internship programs most colleges already have in place?</htmltext>
<tokenext>heh .
You mean something like the internship programs most colleges already have in place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>heh.
You mean something like the internship programs most colleges already have in place?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189450</id>
	<title>Bad idea</title>
	<author>sunking2</author>
	<datestamp>1266526500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Are we really doing kids a favor by asking them to grow up that much sooner? Because 35+ years of having to work every day isn't enough lets add another 2 years on top of that. There's more to life than working, and for 99\% of the people school is just preparing you to work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are we really doing kids a favor by asking them to grow up that much sooner ?
Because 35 + years of having to work every day is n't enough lets add another 2 years on top of that .
There 's more to life than working , and for 99 \ % of the people school is just preparing you to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are we really doing kids a favor by asking them to grow up that much sooner?
Because 35+ years of having to work every day isn't enough lets add another 2 years on top of that.
There's more to life than working, and for 99\% of the people school is just preparing you to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190606</id>
	<title>Re:It's a cost-cutting measure.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What makes you think that an AP course is any more expensive than any other course the school offers? The teachers are the same, the textbooks *might* be more expensive since they are covering more advanced topics but not by any significant amount, the labs are a little harder, but don't use any more sophisticated equipment than a regular high school class. Fees for tests are paid by the students, not the school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What makes you think that an AP course is any more expensive than any other course the school offers ?
The teachers are the same , the textbooks * might * be more expensive since they are covering more advanced topics but not by any significant amount , the labs are a little harder , but do n't use any more sophisticated equipment than a regular high school class .
Fees for tests are paid by the students , not the school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What makes you think that an AP course is any more expensive than any other course the school offers?
The teachers are the same, the textbooks *might* be more expensive since they are covering more advanced topics but not by any significant amount, the labs are a little harder, but don't use any more sophisticated equipment than a regular high school class.
Fees for tests are paid by the students, not the school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192960</id>
	<title>Been there, done that, did not do well...</title>
	<author>non-e-moose</author>
	<datestamp>1266496200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I entered college at age 16, coming from a [private] college prep high school.  Turns out I was in \_waaaay\_ over my head on the social aspects.  And the age differential was from "skipping" 3rd grade, and had nothing to do with cruising through high-school.  Moral of the story is for parents to be conscious of social issues when accelerating kids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I entered college at age 16 , coming from a [ private ] college prep high school .
Turns out I was in \ _waaaay \ _ over my head on the social aspects .
And the age differential was from " skipping " 3rd grade , and had nothing to do with cruising through high-school .
Moral of the story is for parents to be conscious of social issues when accelerating kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I entered college at age 16, coming from a [private] college prep high school.
Turns out I was in \_waaaay\_ over my head on the social aspects.
And the age differential was from "skipping" 3rd grade, and had nothing to do with cruising through high-school.
Moral of the story is for parents to be conscious of social issues when accelerating kids.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189794</id>
	<title>"Move on when ready"?</title>
	<author>yankpop</author>
	<datestamp>1266484320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We used to have a move-on-when-ready system, only the other way around. If you weren't ready to move on, you would fail and repeat the course/year/whatever. Strange to see this same concept offered as a revolutionary new approach for top students. Maybe it wouldn't be necessary to do this if the less capable students were forced to master a topic before moving on. How many of these apparently super-bright tenth graders are really just good students surrounded by kids that haven't been forced to perform for fear of damaging their self-esteem?</p><p>yp.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We used to have a move-on-when-ready system , only the other way around .
If you were n't ready to move on , you would fail and repeat the course/year/whatever .
Strange to see this same concept offered as a revolutionary new approach for top students .
Maybe it would n't be necessary to do this if the less capable students were forced to master a topic before moving on .
How many of these apparently super-bright tenth graders are really just good students surrounded by kids that have n't been forced to perform for fear of damaging their self-esteem ? yp .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We used to have a move-on-when-ready system, only the other way around.
If you weren't ready to move on, you would fail and repeat the course/year/whatever.
Strange to see this same concept offered as a revolutionary new approach for top students.
Maybe it wouldn't be necessary to do this if the less capable students were forced to master a topic before moving on.
How many of these apparently super-bright tenth graders are really just good students surrounded by kids that haven't been forced to perform for fear of damaging their self-esteem?yp.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194746</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1266506640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  I probably would have been tracked to end up in college early, and I can't even manage the level of insanity that would have ensued.  I gained a great deal of emotional maturity (not to mention I feel my brain "kicked it up a notch" when I hit 18 as far as academics/problem solving/intelligence goes).  Oddly enough, I think I could have gotten way more out of college if I had DELAYED it until I was 20 instead of going at age 18.  Maybe I was just immature?  Not really.  I assure you that out of the top students, I was the most emotionally mature by a long shot.</p><p>Instead, I got to stay in high school where I had some very good teachers that were willing to put in the time to craft extra special classes for me and some of the other top students.  I had three years of Biology, Three years of Chemistry, and two and a half years of Physics at my school.  Most schools have one year.  Good schools have the AP/IB second year classes.  They went above it.  In these "Third year" science classes, I was given a lot of freedom but some structure was still there for me.</p><p>To me, this entire plan is the High School System finally throwing in the towel and saying "We aren't catering to those who are on on the high end of academics."  Someone like me comes around and instead of taking the time to help nurture my talents, they'll shove me out the door into a world I'm grossly unprepared for....mostly because it is just easier for the school that way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I probably would have been tracked to end up in college early , and I ca n't even manage the level of insanity that would have ensued .
I gained a great deal of emotional maturity ( not to mention I feel my brain " kicked it up a notch " when I hit 18 as far as academics/problem solving/intelligence goes ) .
Oddly enough , I think I could have gotten way more out of college if I had DELAYED it until I was 20 instead of going at age 18 .
Maybe I was just immature ?
Not really .
I assure you that out of the top students , I was the most emotionally mature by a long shot.Instead , I got to stay in high school where I had some very good teachers that were willing to put in the time to craft extra special classes for me and some of the other top students .
I had three years of Biology , Three years of Chemistry , and two and a half years of Physics at my school .
Most schools have one year .
Good schools have the AP/IB second year classes .
They went above it .
In these " Third year " science classes , I was given a lot of freedom but some structure was still there for me.To me , this entire plan is the High School System finally throwing in the towel and saying " We are n't catering to those who are on on the high end of academics .
" Someone like me comes around and instead of taking the time to help nurture my talents , they 'll shove me out the door into a world I 'm grossly unprepared for....mostly because it is just easier for the school that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I probably would have been tracked to end up in college early, and I can't even manage the level of insanity that would have ensued.
I gained a great deal of emotional maturity (not to mention I feel my brain "kicked it up a notch" when I hit 18 as far as academics/problem solving/intelligence goes).
Oddly enough, I think I could have gotten way more out of college if I had DELAYED it until I was 20 instead of going at age 18.
Maybe I was just immature?
Not really.
I assure you that out of the top students, I was the most emotionally mature by a long shot.Instead, I got to stay in high school where I had some very good teachers that were willing to put in the time to craft extra special classes for me and some of the other top students.
I had three years of Biology, Three years of Chemistry, and two and a half years of Physics at my school.
Most schools have one year.
Good schools have the AP/IB second year classes.
They went above it.
In these "Third year" science classes, I was given a lot of freedom but some structure was still there for me.To me, this entire plan is the High School System finally throwing in the towel and saying "We aren't catering to those who are on on the high end of academics.
"  Someone like me comes around and instead of taking the time to help nurture my talents, they'll shove me out the door into a world I'm grossly unprepared for....mostly because it is just easier for the school that way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190126</id>
	<title>Re:Thrown?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old."</i> </p><p>Primarily because the 18-23 year old in college are typically too immature.  The bright 16 year old should do fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
" Primarily because the 18-23 year old in college are typically too immature .
The bright 16 year old should do fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
" Primarily because the 18-23 year old in college are typically too immature.
The bright 16 year old should do fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190444</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Programs exist that <a href="http://www.massacademy.org/" title="massacademy.org">do this today</a> [massacademy.org] but at <a href="http://www.wpi.edu/" title="wpi.edu">private institutions</a> [wpi.edu].  This seems like a good compromise, if you can bring the institutions onboard.  As to Mass Academy, I went there, and it was by far the best thing that ever happened to my educational career.  <br> <br>Nothing sparks a desire to learn like being around others with the same desire.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Programs exist that do this today [ massacademy.org ] but at private institutions [ wpi.edu ] .
This seems like a good compromise , if you can bring the institutions onboard .
As to Mass Academy , I went there , and it was by far the best thing that ever happened to my educational career .
Nothing sparks a desire to learn like being around others with the same desire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Programs exist that do this today [massacademy.org] but at private institutions [wpi.edu].
This seems like a good compromise, if you can bring the institutions onboard.
As to Mass Academy, I went there, and it was by far the best thing that ever happened to my educational career.
Nothing sparks a desire to learn like being around others with the same desire.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31202148</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266608700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally, I found college to be a whiff of fresh fucking air after highschool.</p><p>Due to a lack of such an early graduation option at my school, I elected to take the GED, and give the over-zealous school administrators the bird, then go straight to college.</p><p>I blew through the entrance exam, and was accepted without issue.</p><p>Between you and me, what I found to be the MOST refreshing, was that the college professors, unlike HS teachers and staff, HAD ABSOLUTELY NO VESTED INTEREST IN MY PASSING OR FAILING.</p><p>What does this mean? NO FUCKING MEDDLERS.</p><p>They didn't care if I acted like a lunatic, just as long as my course work was done, and I did all my labs-- just like any other student.  They treated me with the respect and distance that one affords to an adult, and not the microscope up the ass scrutiny that seems so prevalent in the public school system these days.</p><p>And, Most importantly of all, I was responsible for my grade, and ONLY my grade.  In the public school system of the small podunk town I had attended, they made flagrant use of "Group projects", in which I would literally carry 5 or 6 other people all through the year in terms of academic achievement, so that the school could maintain it's high student GPA average.</p><p>I am very curious to know just how much of this "Student's aren't ready for college!" mantra is really code-speak for "Our students have never had to carry their own academic weight before, and would fail miserably if they tried!"</p><p>I lost track of the number of sports jocks and cheerleader bubbleheads that were failing miserably in college general chemistry 101, because they had to do their own lab work which they had never done in highschool since they had always just copied the answers off the smart kid.</p><p>Personally, I'd like to see this test offered at the freshmen level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I found college to be a whiff of fresh fucking air after highschool.Due to a lack of such an early graduation option at my school , I elected to take the GED , and give the over-zealous school administrators the bird , then go straight to college.I blew through the entrance exam , and was accepted without issue.Between you and me , what I found to be the MOST refreshing , was that the college professors , unlike HS teachers and staff , HAD ABSOLUTELY NO VESTED INTEREST IN MY PASSING OR FAILING.What does this mean ?
NO FUCKING MEDDLERS.They did n't care if I acted like a lunatic , just as long as my course work was done , and I did all my labs-- just like any other student .
They treated me with the respect and distance that one affords to an adult , and not the microscope up the ass scrutiny that seems so prevalent in the public school system these days.And , Most importantly of all , I was responsible for my grade , and ONLY my grade .
In the public school system of the small podunk town I had attended , they made flagrant use of " Group projects " , in which I would literally carry 5 or 6 other people all through the year in terms of academic achievement , so that the school could maintain it 's high student GPA average.I am very curious to know just how much of this " Student 's are n't ready for college !
" mantra is really code-speak for " Our students have never had to carry their own academic weight before , and would fail miserably if they tried !
" I lost track of the number of sports jocks and cheerleader bubbleheads that were failing miserably in college general chemistry 101 , because they had to do their own lab work which they had never done in highschool since they had always just copied the answers off the smart kid.Personally , I 'd like to see this test offered at the freshmen level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I found college to be a whiff of fresh fucking air after highschool.Due to a lack of such an early graduation option at my school, I elected to take the GED, and give the over-zealous school administrators the bird, then go straight to college.I blew through the entrance exam, and was accepted without issue.Between you and me, what I found to be the MOST refreshing, was that the college professors, unlike HS teachers and staff, HAD ABSOLUTELY NO VESTED INTEREST IN MY PASSING OR FAILING.What does this mean?
NO FUCKING MEDDLERS.They didn't care if I acted like a lunatic, just as long as my course work was done, and I did all my labs-- just like any other student.
They treated me with the respect and distance that one affords to an adult, and not the microscope up the ass scrutiny that seems so prevalent in the public school system these days.And, Most importantly of all, I was responsible for my grade, and ONLY my grade.
In the public school system of the small podunk town I had attended, they made flagrant use of "Group projects", in which I would literally carry 5 or 6 other people all through the year in terms of academic achievement, so that the school could maintain it's high student GPA average.I am very curious to know just how much of this "Student's aren't ready for college!
" mantra is really code-speak for "Our students have never had to carry their own academic weight before, and would fail miserably if they tried!
"I lost track of the number of sports jocks and cheerleader bubbleheads that were failing miserably in college general chemistry 101, because they had to do their own lab work which they had never done in highschool since they had always just copied the answers off the smart kid.Personally, I'd like to see this test offered at the freshmen level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189402</id>
	<title>In Boston there was a couple of similar program</title>
	<author>www.sorehands.com</author>
	<datestamp>1266526440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There was two similar programs in Boston (in the late 70s, early 80s.)</p><p>I can't recall the name of the programs. The first would allow a high school senior<br>to spend their entire year as a freshman in college, and it would count both as their<br>freshman year in college and senior year in high school.</p><p>Another was the open campus program, it would allow a senior (I did it both senior and junior years) to take college courses as a regular student<br>and receive credit in both high school and college. The student still was required to attend classes in high school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was two similar programs in Boston ( in the late 70s , early 80s .
) I ca n't recall the name of the programs .
The first would allow a high school seniorto spend their entire year as a freshman in college , and it would count both as theirfreshman year in college and senior year in high school.Another was the open campus program , it would allow a senior ( I did it both senior and junior years ) to take college courses as a regular studentand receive credit in both high school and college .
The student still was required to attend classes in high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was two similar programs in Boston (in the late 70s, early 80s.
)I can't recall the name of the programs.
The first would allow a high school seniorto spend their entire year as a freshman in college, and it would count both as theirfreshman year in college and senior year in high school.Another was the open campus program, it would allow a senior (I did it both senior and junior years) to take college courses as a regular studentand receive credit in both high school and college.
The student still was required to attend classes in high school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31199500</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>GargamelSpaceman</author>
	<datestamp>1266596280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there. This is an entirely different environment from American high schools, where attendance is compulsory, backed by the full force of truancy laws.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is true.  This gets to the very heart of what is wrong with education in grades 7 though 12 in the US.
</p><p>I lived in one of the states mentioned in TFA during the 90s, and found a way to do sort of what is being mentioned without taking any tests.  After flunking the first 9 weeks of 9th grade, and continuing to be bullied as I was throughout 7th and 8th grades, my parents legally homeschooled me, but in reality, I took courses at the local community college, they never did any 'homeschooling'.
</p><p>In my state, there happened to be a law that if you pass 10 college courses the school board may grant you a high school diploma.  After doing well in 10 courses, we went to the schoolboard, and I was awarded a diploma, which was important because one isn't allowed to take the GED until one is 17.  Without a high school diploma or a GED, one can not get any financial aid.
</p><p>I then applied ( with my good grades at the community college, and without mentioning my lousy high school grades ) to a rather exclusive school.  I transferred there ( with a large scholarship ) and graduated.
</p><p>I was better prepared than the average freshman at that school, and I earned a Math degree with a 3.6 gpa.
</p><p>I tried with everything I had inside me to get good grades in high school, but it just wasn't possible,  however I did quite well at college.  I trace it to the fact that everyone in college wants to be in college, and so everyone is treated accordingly.
</p><p>Also, having taken classes at community college, and also at 'fancy' competitive admissions college, I can say there is no real difference in what is taught.  Quality wise, they are on par.  However at a 2 year community college, the course catalog will be limited in comparison to the course catalog at a fancier school.  Having seen both ends of the spectrum, I will be recommending something in the middle for my own progeny.
</p><p>So... If you know HS sucks, you can do homeschooling to get mostly out of 'the system's' jurisdiction and then go to an open admission school without any tests.   I wouldn't have been able to pass the tests myself.  I ended up taking remedial ( at the college level ) algebra and composition at the community college, but then I was 13 when I started taking courses at the community college.
</p><p>I didn't take a full course load at first  I think it was just those two classes that first semester.  I had ramped up to a full course load by the time I transferred ( at 15 ) though.  I ended up graduating at 19, ( though I'd had enough credits to graduate and stopped attending classes at 18 ).
</p><p>Showing you can earn good grades at college is very respected by college admissions folks.  Think about it:  What better proof someone is able to handle college could they ask for?  And doing well at college at an early age 'proves' they're relatively smart as well as the other supposed measures of relative smartness such as grades earned in high school or SAT scores.
</p><p>If you can't win at the game you're playing, change the game.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there .
This is an entirely different environment from American high schools , where attendance is compulsory , backed by the full force of truancy laws.This is true .
This gets to the very heart of what is wrong with education in grades 7 though 12 in the US .
I lived in one of the states mentioned in TFA during the 90s , and found a way to do sort of what is being mentioned without taking any tests .
After flunking the first 9 weeks of 9th grade , and continuing to be bullied as I was throughout 7th and 8th grades , my parents legally homeschooled me , but in reality , I took courses at the local community college , they never did any 'homeschooling' .
In my state , there happened to be a law that if you pass 10 college courses the school board may grant you a high school diploma .
After doing well in 10 courses , we went to the schoolboard , and I was awarded a diploma , which was important because one is n't allowed to take the GED until one is 17 .
Without a high school diploma or a GED , one can not get any financial aid .
I then applied ( with my good grades at the community college , and without mentioning my lousy high school grades ) to a rather exclusive school .
I transferred there ( with a large scholarship ) and graduated .
I was better prepared than the average freshman at that school , and I earned a Math degree with a 3.6 gpa .
I tried with everything I had inside me to get good grades in high school , but it just was n't possible , however I did quite well at college .
I trace it to the fact that everyone in college wants to be in college , and so everyone is treated accordingly .
Also , having taken classes at community college , and also at 'fancy ' competitive admissions college , I can say there is no real difference in what is taught .
Quality wise , they are on par .
However at a 2 year community college , the course catalog will be limited in comparison to the course catalog at a fancier school .
Having seen both ends of the spectrum , I will be recommending something in the middle for my own progeny .
So... If you know HS sucks , you can do homeschooling to get mostly out of 'the system 's ' jurisdiction and then go to an open admission school without any tests .
I would n't have been able to pass the tests myself .
I ended up taking remedial ( at the college level ) algebra and composition at the community college , but then I was 13 when I started taking courses at the community college .
I did n't take a full course load at first I think it was just those two classes that first semester .
I had ramped up to a full course load by the time I transferred ( at 15 ) though .
I ended up graduating at 19 , ( though I 'd had enough credits to graduate and stopped attending classes at 18 ) .
Showing you can earn good grades at college is very respected by college admissions folks .
Think about it : What better proof someone is able to handle college could they ask for ?
And doing well at college at an early age 'proves ' they 're relatively smart as well as the other supposed measures of relative smartness such as grades earned in high school or SAT scores .
If you ca n't win at the game you 're playing , change the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Community colleges are filled with people who choose to be there.
This is an entirely different environment from American high schools, where attendance is compulsory, backed by the full force of truancy laws.This is true.
This gets to the very heart of what is wrong with education in grades 7 though 12 in the US.
I lived in one of the states mentioned in TFA during the 90s, and found a way to do sort of what is being mentioned without taking any tests.
After flunking the first 9 weeks of 9th grade, and continuing to be bullied as I was throughout 7th and 8th grades, my parents legally homeschooled me, but in reality, I took courses at the local community college, they never did any 'homeschooling'.
In my state, there happened to be a law that if you pass 10 college courses the school board may grant you a high school diploma.
After doing well in 10 courses, we went to the schoolboard, and I was awarded a diploma, which was important because one isn't allowed to take the GED until one is 17.
Without a high school diploma or a GED, one can not get any financial aid.
I then applied ( with my good grades at the community college, and without mentioning my lousy high school grades ) to a rather exclusive school.
I transferred there ( with a large scholarship ) and graduated.
I was better prepared than the average freshman at that school, and I earned a Math degree with a 3.6 gpa.
I tried with everything I had inside me to get good grades in high school, but it just wasn't possible,  however I did quite well at college.
I trace it to the fact that everyone in college wants to be in college, and so everyone is treated accordingly.
Also, having taken classes at community college, and also at 'fancy' competitive admissions college, I can say there is no real difference in what is taught.
Quality wise, they are on par.
However at a 2 year community college, the course catalog will be limited in comparison to the course catalog at a fancier school.
Having seen both ends of the spectrum, I will be recommending something in the middle for my own progeny.
So... If you know HS sucks, you can do homeschooling to get mostly out of 'the system's' jurisdiction and then go to an open admission school without any tests.
I wouldn't have been able to pass the tests myself.
I ended up taking remedial ( at the college level ) algebra and composition at the community college, but then I was 13 when I started taking courses at the community college.
I didn't take a full course load at first  I think it was just those two classes that first semester.
I had ramped up to a full course load by the time I transferred ( at 15 ) though.
I ended up graduating at 19, ( though I'd had enough credits to graduate and stopped attending classes at 18 ).
Showing you can earn good grades at college is very respected by college admissions folks.
Think about it:  What better proof someone is able to handle college could they ask for?
And doing well at college at an early age 'proves' they're relatively smart as well as the other supposed measures of relative smartness such as grades earned in high school or SAT scores.
If you can't win at the game you're playing, change the game.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192350</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>captjc</author>
	<datestamp>1266493140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I was in several other high school "honors" classes, which consisted primarily of more homework. We could do the work so much faster, they simply gave us more of it. And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster, they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.</p></div><p>Wow, I had the exact opposite experience. In my school, the Honors / AP programs were much closer to a university approach. My first year of High school, I made the mistake of taking all College Prep classes (the level just below Honors) because Honors was trumped up by the teachers and guidance counselors as much harder, lots of work, only for the real smart kids. The sheer amount of easy paperwork and the slow pace of classes drove me to tears with boredom. Simply worksheet after worksheet of the same crap. After that year, I decided to take only honors / AP classes. Here, it was lecture all class period and here is an assignment. The material was a little harder and the class was at a way faster pace, but aside from outside reading, there was actually less work. Math and science went from do five worksheets with the same ten problems to reading ten pages and doing ten distinctly different problems. Social sciences and literature went from read twenty pages and answer these fifteen questions on the worksheet to read forty pages and we will discuss in class.</p><p>Then going from that to college was more of the same only with more reading and less homework.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in several other high school " honors " classes , which consisted primarily of more homework .
We could do the work so much faster , they simply gave us more of it .
And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster , they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.Wow , I had the exact opposite experience .
In my school , the Honors / AP programs were much closer to a university approach .
My first year of High school , I made the mistake of taking all College Prep classes ( the level just below Honors ) because Honors was trumped up by the teachers and guidance counselors as much harder , lots of work , only for the real smart kids .
The sheer amount of easy paperwork and the slow pace of classes drove me to tears with boredom .
Simply worksheet after worksheet of the same crap .
After that year , I decided to take only honors / AP classes .
Here , it was lecture all class period and here is an assignment .
The material was a little harder and the class was at a way faster pace , but aside from outside reading , there was actually less work .
Math and science went from do five worksheets with the same ten problems to reading ten pages and doing ten distinctly different problems .
Social sciences and literature went from read twenty pages and answer these fifteen questions on the worksheet to read forty pages and we will discuss in class.Then going from that to college was more of the same only with more reading and less homework .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in several other high school "honors" classes, which consisted primarily of more homework.
We could do the work so much faster, they simply gave us more of it.
And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster, they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.Wow, I had the exact opposite experience.
In my school, the Honors / AP programs were much closer to a university approach.
My first year of High school, I made the mistake of taking all College Prep classes (the level just below Honors) because Honors was trumped up by the teachers and guidance counselors as much harder, lots of work, only for the real smart kids.
The sheer amount of easy paperwork and the slow pace of classes drove me to tears with boredom.
Simply worksheet after worksheet of the same crap.
After that year, I decided to take only honors / AP classes.
Here, it was lecture all class period and here is an assignment.
The material was a little harder and the class was at a way faster pace, but aside from outside reading, there was actually less work.
Math and science went from do five worksheets with the same ten problems to reading ten pages and doing ten distinctly different problems.
Social sciences and literature went from read twenty pages and answer these fifteen questions on the worksheet to read forty pages and we will discuss in class.Then going from that to college was more of the same only with more reading and less homework.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189608</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Spazmania</author>
	<datestamp>1266483720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because the local community college is run under the same governmental entity that runs the high schools, so they can be tooled so that they're A) able and B) willing to accept kids who've had only two years of high school.</p><p>Presumably if two-year graduation for those who pass the test becomes the norm, mainstream colleges will begin to accept the graduates as well.</p><p>I really wish this had been around when I was in high school. If I'm being charitable, maybe half of my high school classes were something better than a complete waste of my time. Community college is not much better but it is better and much of the coursework transfers to the bachelors' degree program that I'd eventually end up in elsewhere, getting the generic crap out of the way so I could dive straight in to the courses that actually interest me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the local community college is run under the same governmental entity that runs the high schools , so they can be tooled so that they 're A ) able and B ) willing to accept kids who 've had only two years of high school.Presumably if two-year graduation for those who pass the test becomes the norm , mainstream colleges will begin to accept the graduates as well.I really wish this had been around when I was in high school .
If I 'm being charitable , maybe half of my high school classes were something better than a complete waste of my time .
Community college is not much better but it is better and much of the coursework transfers to the bachelors ' degree program that I 'd eventually end up in elsewhere , getting the generic crap out of the way so I could dive straight in to the courses that actually interest me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the local community college is run under the same governmental entity that runs the high schools, so they can be tooled so that they're A) able and B) willing to accept kids who've had only two years of high school.Presumably if two-year graduation for those who pass the test becomes the norm, mainstream colleges will begin to accept the graduates as well.I really wish this had been around when I was in high school.
If I'm being charitable, maybe half of my high school classes were something better than a complete waste of my time.
Community college is not much better but it is better and much of the coursework transfers to the bachelors' degree program that I'd eventually end up in elsewhere, getting the generic crap out of the way so I could dive straight in to the courses that actually interest me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31202360</id>
	<title>Re:Age-Based Social Groups: Bring the classes to t</title>
	<author>Black Gold Alchemist</author>
	<datestamp>1266610140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will.</p></div><p>Most is exactly the problem with your arguments. Most will go to highschool. This lets those who are ahead on the maturity curve to move ahead and skip the insanity. I think young people need to interact with people of all ages. The best way I've found to do this was to go to hobby clubs intended for adults and late work.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects.</p></div><p>People always talk about the social aspects - a common complaint about homeschooling. When will someone quantify them and study them?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later.</p></div><p>I don't regret missing out on the drugs, gangs, bullying, sports, and other nonsense.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will.Most is exactly the problem with your arguments .
Most will go to highschool .
This lets those who are ahead on the maturity curve to move ahead and skip the insanity .
I think young people need to interact with people of all ages .
The best way I 've found to do this was to go to hobby clubs intended for adults and late work.The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects.People always talk about the social aspects - a common complaint about homeschooling .
When will someone quantify them and study them ? Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later.I do n't regret missing out on the drugs , gangs , bullying , sports , and other nonsense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will.Most is exactly the problem with your arguments.
Most will go to highschool.
This lets those who are ahead on the maturity curve to move ahead and skip the insanity.
I think young people need to interact with people of all ages.
The best way I've found to do this was to go to hobby clubs intended for adults and late work.The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects.People always talk about the social aspects - a common complaint about homeschooling.
When will someone quantify them and study them?Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later.I don't regret missing out on the drugs, gangs, bullying, sports, and other nonsense.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189894</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Daniel Dvorkin</author>
	<datestamp>1266484560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>A community college does not have that environment.</i></p><p>That's a pretty bold blanket statement you're making there.</p><p>It varies a lot by the CC.  There are some CCs that are essentially two more years of high school, filled with losers who want to be able to say they "went to college" but who have no desire to learn any more than they have to in order to get the minimum passing grade.  There are others that offer intellectual challenge and rigor equal to that found at the best four-year colleges and universities, and if you don't believe that, then you simply haven't learned enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.</p><p>Many, many high school graduates, to say nothing of the HS juniors and seniors who will be taking advantage of the program discussed in this story, would do much better at a good CC than they would at Enormous State University.  Campuses are smaller and have more of neighborhood feeling.  Classes are smaller and taught by professors who see teaching as their primary mission, rather than a distraction from research.  Classmates are an interesting mix of people from various age groups, many having significant life experience, rather than a bunch of other 18-year-olds who haven't figured out that they can't coast in college the way they did in high school.  Life after class isn't dominated by the toxic "Greek" life and athletic obsession that eats up so much resources at ESU.</p><p>It isn't for everyone.  There are students who can graduate from high school and be ready for the challenges at ESU, or even Harvard or Stanford, from day one.  Good for them.  But like a lot of 18-year-olds, I screwed up my first try, and years later CC offered me a way back into the academic world.  Given that I'm now within a year of my PhD, you can probably guess that I don't feel academically deprived by having an associate's degree to my name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A community college does not have that environment.That 's a pretty bold blanket statement you 're making there.It varies a lot by the CC .
There are some CCs that are essentially two more years of high school , filled with losers who want to be able to say they " went to college " but who have no desire to learn any more than they have to in order to get the minimum passing grade .
There are others that offer intellectual challenge and rigor equal to that found at the best four-year colleges and universities , and if you do n't believe that , then you simply have n't learned enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.Many , many high school graduates , to say nothing of the HS juniors and seniors who will be taking advantage of the program discussed in this story , would do much better at a good CC than they would at Enormous State University .
Campuses are smaller and have more of neighborhood feeling .
Classes are smaller and taught by professors who see teaching as their primary mission , rather than a distraction from research .
Classmates are an interesting mix of people from various age groups , many having significant life experience , rather than a bunch of other 18-year-olds who have n't figured out that they ca n't coast in college the way they did in high school .
Life after class is n't dominated by the toxic " Greek " life and athletic obsession that eats up so much resources at ESU.It is n't for everyone .
There are students who can graduate from high school and be ready for the challenges at ESU , or even Harvard or Stanford , from day one .
Good for them .
But like a lot of 18-year-olds , I screwed up my first try , and years later CC offered me a way back into the academic world .
Given that I 'm now within a year of my PhD , you can probably guess that I do n't feel academically deprived by having an associate 's degree to my name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A community college does not have that environment.That's a pretty bold blanket statement you're making there.It varies a lot by the CC.
There are some CCs that are essentially two more years of high school, filled with losers who want to be able to say they "went to college" but who have no desire to learn any more than they have to in order to get the minimum passing grade.
There are others that offer intellectual challenge and rigor equal to that found at the best four-year colleges and universities, and if you don't believe that, then you simply haven't learned enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.Many, many high school graduates, to say nothing of the HS juniors and seniors who will be taking advantage of the program discussed in this story, would do much better at a good CC than they would at Enormous State University.
Campuses are smaller and have more of neighborhood feeling.
Classes are smaller and taught by professors who see teaching as their primary mission, rather than a distraction from research.
Classmates are an interesting mix of people from various age groups, many having significant life experience, rather than a bunch of other 18-year-olds who haven't figured out that they can't coast in college the way they did in high school.
Life after class isn't dominated by the toxic "Greek" life and athletic obsession that eats up so much resources at ESU.It isn't for everyone.
There are students who can graduate from high school and be ready for the challenges at ESU, or even Harvard or Stanford, from day one.
Good for them.
But like a lot of 18-year-olds, I screwed up my first try, and years later CC offered me a way back into the academic world.
Given that I'm now within a year of my PhD, you can probably guess that I don't feel academically deprived by having an associate's degree to my name.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192754</id>
	<title>Maturity? Don't make me laugh</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1266495300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The 16 year olds who want to go to college early are not the problem. There are plenty of 18 year olds who are not mature enough for college, but just go because they can go for free because their family has no money. Then college becomes day care for overgrown children. When I went to Yuba college just a few years ago (in my late 20s that is) I was forever picking up trash behind these little peckers. There were, however, a couple of precocious 16 and 17 year olds in some of my classes getting exceptional grades.</p><p>Those last couple of years of high school are not lending anyone any maturity. High school, like the other grades of public school before it, are about indoctrination, not education. Learning to fit in to a scheme of bullying (wherever you might fit into it; perhaps as a silent enabler, as most of the student body is) that won't fly in the Real World(tm) won't help anyone. Once you're out of school, the system of jocks vs. nerds with the masses standing by and providing support in the form of an audience falls down hard. Most of the people who do very well in that system will peak there, and their life will be all downhill from there, with the exception of a few jocks that will have another moment of glory in college. However, if they perpetrate violence against other students <em>there</em>, they'll be old enough to be thrown in jail, and that's exactly what will happen to them. A very few of them will be successful enough to go pro, where they will still be punished for their misbehavior, as has famously happened to a large number of them.</p><p>If these students are to build maturity, it would be best to put them in an environment where maturity will be expected of them... like college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The 16 year olds who want to go to college early are not the problem .
There are plenty of 18 year olds who are not mature enough for college , but just go because they can go for free because their family has no money .
Then college becomes day care for overgrown children .
When I went to Yuba college just a few years ago ( in my late 20s that is ) I was forever picking up trash behind these little peckers .
There were , however , a couple of precocious 16 and 17 year olds in some of my classes getting exceptional grades.Those last couple of years of high school are not lending anyone any maturity .
High school , like the other grades of public school before it , are about indoctrination , not education .
Learning to fit in to a scheme of bullying ( wherever you might fit into it ; perhaps as a silent enabler , as most of the student body is ) that wo n't fly in the Real World ( tm ) wo n't help anyone .
Once you 're out of school , the system of jocks vs. nerds with the masses standing by and providing support in the form of an audience falls down hard .
Most of the people who do very well in that system will peak there , and their life will be all downhill from there , with the exception of a few jocks that will have another moment of glory in college .
However , if they perpetrate violence against other students there , they 'll be old enough to be thrown in jail , and that 's exactly what will happen to them .
A very few of them will be successful enough to go pro , where they will still be punished for their misbehavior , as has famously happened to a large number of them.If these students are to build maturity , it would be best to put them in an environment where maturity will be expected of them... like college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 16 year olds who want to go to college early are not the problem.
There are plenty of 18 year olds who are not mature enough for college, but just go because they can go for free because their family has no money.
Then college becomes day care for overgrown children.
When I went to Yuba college just a few years ago (in my late 20s that is) I was forever picking up trash behind these little peckers.
There were, however, a couple of precocious 16 and 17 year olds in some of my classes getting exceptional grades.Those last couple of years of high school are not lending anyone any maturity.
High school, like the other grades of public school before it, are about indoctrination, not education.
Learning to fit in to a scheme of bullying (wherever you might fit into it; perhaps as a silent enabler, as most of the student body is) that won't fly in the Real World(tm) won't help anyone.
Once you're out of school, the system of jocks vs. nerds with the masses standing by and providing support in the form of an audience falls down hard.
Most of the people who do very well in that system will peak there, and their life will be all downhill from there, with the exception of a few jocks that will have another moment of glory in college.
However, if they perpetrate violence against other students there, they'll be old enough to be thrown in jail, and that's exactly what will happen to them.
A very few of them will be successful enough to go pro, where they will still be punished for their misbehavior, as has famously happened to a large number of them.If these students are to build maturity, it would be best to put them in an environment where maturity will be expected of them... like college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189248</id>
	<title>This isn't new</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can opt for "dual-enrollment" at most high schools which allows students to earn credit at the local community college.</p><p>The real problem is with long summer breaks.  School needs to be year round (not just space out the two months for summer) with small week long breaks.  You can easily have everyone graduate 2 years earlier and the smart kids graduating 4 years earlier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can opt for " dual-enrollment " at most high schools which allows students to earn credit at the local community college.The real problem is with long summer breaks .
School needs to be year round ( not just space out the two months for summer ) with small week long breaks .
You can easily have everyone graduate 2 years earlier and the smart kids graduating 4 years earlier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can opt for "dual-enrollment" at most high schools which allows students to earn credit at the local community college.The real problem is with long summer breaks.
School needs to be year round (not just space out the two months for summer) with small week long breaks.
You can easily have everyone graduate 2 years earlier and the smart kids graduating 4 years earlier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31196656</id>
	<title>All work and no beer make Homer something somethin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266571440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to college at 17 and let me tell you, it really sucks when the school has events like a "Beer fest" and you can't participate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to college at 17 and let me tell you , it really sucks when the school has events like a " Beer fest " and you ca n't participate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to college at 17 and let me tell you, it really sucks when the school has events like a "Beer fest" and you can't participate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191272</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1266488460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just have to chime-in and agree.  For my crowd, we treated the local community college as 13th grade.  The kids who went there rarely even finished their AA degrees, were into drugs, and goofed-off.  They played games all day long.  This is absolutely NOT where we should be sending intelligent but immature students.</p><p>The worst part is that if we do this, then it fails, it will make it look like the entire idea of acceleration is a bad idea, instead of pointing out how stupidly it was implemented.</p><p>Also -- why is this program even needed?  I thought that if a student took their SATs, took the college entrance exams, that a college could choose to accept them.  I thought that the law required anyone under 15? 16? to be enrolled in school - I didn't think it specifically said it has to be a high school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just have to chime-in and agree .
For my crowd , we treated the local community college as 13th grade .
The kids who went there rarely even finished their AA degrees , were into drugs , and goofed-off .
They played games all day long .
This is absolutely NOT where we should be sending intelligent but immature students.The worst part is that if we do this , then it fails , it will make it look like the entire idea of acceleration is a bad idea , instead of pointing out how stupidly it was implemented.Also -- why is this program even needed ?
I thought that if a student took their SATs , took the college entrance exams , that a college could choose to accept them .
I thought that the law required anyone under 15 ?
16 ? to be enrolled in school - I did n't think it specifically said it has to be a high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just have to chime-in and agree.
For my crowd, we treated the local community college as 13th grade.
The kids who went there rarely even finished their AA degrees, were into drugs, and goofed-off.
They played games all day long.
This is absolutely NOT where we should be sending intelligent but immature students.The worst part is that if we do this, then it fails, it will make it look like the entire idea of acceleration is a bad idea, instead of pointing out how stupidly it was implemented.Also -- why is this program even needed?
I thought that if a student took their SATs, took the college entrance exams, that a college could choose to accept them.
I thought that the law required anyone under 15?
16? to be enrolled in school - I didn't think it specifically said it has to be a high school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190236</id>
	<title>In some scenarios, it is very harmful</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did a similar college in high school program. I think it can be a great thing, but as long as colleges in the US are still highly valuing GPA, it is also going to hurt a lot of people. I was one of those "bright" kids, or at least people thought so in high school. So at 15 I was guided into one of these programs and basically left to fend for myself. In general I managed to do ok, but I flunked two online classes that dropped my high school GPA nearly a full point, and because I graduated soon after (at sixteen) I was not able to rectify it in any way, and this previously "bright" student has been shunned by all the colleges I've applied to. I'm 18 now, I've been a painter for the last two years, and taken some community college courses. My top school for transfer? Arizona State. That is who is likely to take me. Fuck people trying to push children ahead so that they, not the kids, get a pat on the back. No one is proud of you when you push that kid too fast and he's looked at as a burnout now. Hell, you likely don't even support that same kid anymore, or attempt to guide them. This goes for parents and teachers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did a similar college in high school program .
I think it can be a great thing , but as long as colleges in the US are still highly valuing GPA , it is also going to hurt a lot of people .
I was one of those " bright " kids , or at least people thought so in high school .
So at 15 I was guided into one of these programs and basically left to fend for myself .
In general I managed to do ok , but I flunked two online classes that dropped my high school GPA nearly a full point , and because I graduated soon after ( at sixteen ) I was not able to rectify it in any way , and this previously " bright " student has been shunned by all the colleges I 've applied to .
I 'm 18 now , I 've been a painter for the last two years , and taken some community college courses .
My top school for transfer ?
Arizona State .
That is who is likely to take me .
Fuck people trying to push children ahead so that they , not the kids , get a pat on the back .
No one is proud of you when you push that kid too fast and he 's looked at as a burnout now .
Hell , you likely do n't even support that same kid anymore , or attempt to guide them .
This goes for parents and teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did a similar college in high school program.
I think it can be a great thing, but as long as colleges in the US are still highly valuing GPA, it is also going to hurt a lot of people.
I was one of those "bright" kids, or at least people thought so in high school.
So at 15 I was guided into one of these programs and basically left to fend for myself.
In general I managed to do ok, but I flunked two online classes that dropped my high school GPA nearly a full point, and because I graduated soon after (at sixteen) I was not able to rectify it in any way, and this previously "bright" student has been shunned by all the colleges I've applied to.
I'm 18 now, I've been a painter for the last two years, and taken some community college courses.
My top school for transfer?
Arizona State.
That is who is likely to take me.
Fuck people trying to push children ahead so that they, not the kids, get a pat on the back.
No one is proud of you when you push that kid too fast and he's looked at as a burnout now.
Hell, you likely don't even support that same kid anymore, or attempt to guide them.
This goes for parents and teachers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189526</id>
	<title>the older the dumber</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>really this needs to go all the way down to elementary and they need to suck down info as fast as they can absorb it. educated students are to held back by the current system where they may already know basic math and how to read and so spend the first 6 or 7 years of their school lives learning absolutely nothing. also our ability to learn deteriorates rapidly as we age so one relies more on acquired wisdom as opposed to reasoning skills, so the more wisdom acquired the earlier the better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>really this needs to go all the way down to elementary and they need to suck down info as fast as they can absorb it .
educated students are to held back by the current system where they may already know basic math and how to read and so spend the first 6 or 7 years of their school lives learning absolutely nothing .
also our ability to learn deteriorates rapidly as we age so one relies more on acquired wisdom as opposed to reasoning skills , so the more wisdom acquired the earlier the better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>really this needs to go all the way down to elementary and they need to suck down info as fast as they can absorb it.
educated students are to held back by the current system where they may already know basic math and how to read and so spend the first 6 or 7 years of their school lives learning absolutely nothing.
also our ability to learn deteriorates rapidly as we age so one relies more on acquired wisdom as opposed to reasoning skills, so the more wisdom acquired the earlier the better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195290</id>
	<title>So, wait...</title>
	<author>uvajed\_ekil</author>
	<datestamp>1266510660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The plan is to take the best and brightest students and send them to community colleges? Great plan you've come up with there, National Association of Community Colleges.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The plan is to take the best and brightest students and send them to community colleges ?
Great plan you 've come up with there , National Association of Community Colleges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The plan is to take the best and brightest students and send them to community colleges?
Great plan you've come up with there, National Association of Community Colleges.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189230</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>zeldor</author>
	<datestamp>1266526020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It actually can.<br>I did this very thing some 25+ years ago now.<br>though my highschool was paying for my community college<br>at the time. The was pre-AP classes and this was their version.</p><p>It was a very useful thing to do community college before<br>I went on to a real university. not for everyone but<br>it was like a halfway program for higher education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It actually can.I did this very thing some 25 + years ago now.though my highschool was paying for my community collegeat the time .
The was pre-AP classes and this was their version.It was a very useful thing to do community college beforeI went on to a real university .
not for everyone butit was like a halfway program for higher education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It actually can.I did this very thing some 25+ years ago now.though my highschool was paying for my community collegeat the time.
The was pre-AP classes and this was their version.It was a very useful thing to do community college beforeI went on to a real university.
not for everyone butit was like a halfway program for higher education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189660</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college? - Simon's Rock</title>
	<author>students</author>
	<datestamp>1266483900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some rigorous, 4-year colleges will take 16 year olds as freshmen.  The best one is <a href="http://www.simons-rock.edu/" title="simons-rock.edu">Simon's Rock College</a> [simons-rock.edu] which exists solely for that purpose.  One can get a good <a href="http://earlyentrance.org/Home" title="earlyentrance.org">overview</a> [earlyentrance.org] of other institutions that have related programs.
<br> <br>
I went to Simon's Rock for two years and afterwards attended a top-10 ranked university for two years.  I think most students who care strongly about academics could benefit from starting college early, and if they went to Simon's Rock they would get better teaching and better peers than at said highly ranked university.  (The university is much better in the area of research.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some rigorous , 4-year colleges will take 16 year olds as freshmen .
The best one is Simon 's Rock College [ simons-rock.edu ] which exists solely for that purpose .
One can get a good overview [ earlyentrance.org ] of other institutions that have related programs .
I went to Simon 's Rock for two years and afterwards attended a top-10 ranked university for two years .
I think most students who care strongly about academics could benefit from starting college early , and if they went to Simon 's Rock they would get better teaching and better peers than at said highly ranked university .
( The university is much better in the area of research .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some rigorous, 4-year colleges will take 16 year olds as freshmen.
The best one is Simon's Rock College [simons-rock.edu] which exists solely for that purpose.
One can get a good overview [earlyentrance.org] of other institutions that have related programs.
I went to Simon's Rock for two years and afterwards attended a top-10 ranked university for two years.
I think most students who care strongly about academics could benefit from starting college early, and if they went to Simon's Rock they would get better teaching and better peers than at said highly ranked university.
(The university is much better in the area of research.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189536</id>
	<title>16 year olds not mature enough?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>16-year-olds will become mature when they have more responsibilities. It's time we stop dumbing ourselves down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>16-year-olds will become mature when they have more responsibilities .
It 's time we stop dumbing ourselves down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>16-year-olds will become mature when they have more responsibilities.
It's time we stop dumbing ourselves down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191406</id>
	<title>Alright! ....Giggity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266488940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now there will be even younger girls for seniors to prey on.... Good times...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now there will be even younger girls for seniors to prey on.... Good times.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now there will be even younger girls for seniors to prey on.... Good times...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191886</id>
	<title>Washington essentially has this today</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266490860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Washington State has the "Running Start" program. After your 10th grade year, you start taking classes at the local community college. I know several local kids that have received their Associates Degree the day before they get their High School Diploma.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Washington State has the " Running Start " program .
After your 10th grade year , you start taking classes at the local community college .
I know several local kids that have received their Associates Degree the day before they get their High School Diploma .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Washington State has the "Running Start" program.
After your 10th grade year, you start taking classes at the local community college.
I know several local kids that have received their Associates Degree the day before they get their High School Diploma.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191014</id>
	<title>Its the money, not the education!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266487560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can people not see this for what it is.  A way for those states to graduate kids early and save them the 2 years of public school expenses.  Then kids who want out of high school can run out and get crappy jobs because they 'hate school'.  This is only there to save the state costs.  The concerns about 'social adjustment' is just a red herring to distract everyone from the actual reason for the change and it certainly seems to have worked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can people not see this for what it is .
A way for those states to graduate kids early and save them the 2 years of public school expenses .
Then kids who want out of high school can run out and get crappy jobs because they 'hate school' .
This is only there to save the state costs .
The concerns about 'social adjustment ' is just a red herring to distract everyone from the actual reason for the change and it certainly seems to have worked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can people not see this for what it is.
A way for those states to graduate kids early and save them the 2 years of public school expenses.
Then kids who want out of high school can run out and get crappy jobs because they 'hate school'.
This is only there to save the state costs.
The concerns about 'social adjustment' is just a red herring to distract everyone from the actual reason for the change and it certainly seems to have worked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189366</id>
	<title>Poppycock!</title>
	<author>Ian Alexander</author>
	<datestamp>1266526320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy."</p></div><p>Speaking as a 19-year old who is attending a community college with a high enrolment of under-18's (via the <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/runningstart/default.aspx" title="k12.wa.us">Running Start</a> [k12.wa.us] program) I can say with full confidence that a lot of them are quite capable of handling it. They tend to place into the same classes as most freshmen anyways, they do about as well, and most of them adjust quite easily to the community college culture.<br> <br>CC is easy stuff, not much harder than high school in the first place. I think this is a great move - it's at least worth a try.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that, ' says Mary Anderson , headmaster of Pinkerton Academy .
" Speaking as a 19-year old who is attending a community college with a high enrolment of under-18 's ( via the Running Start [ k12.wa.us ] program ) I can say with full confidence that a lot of them are quite capable of handling it .
They tend to place into the same classes as most freshmen anyways , they do about as well , and most of them adjust quite easily to the community college culture .
CC is easy stuff , not much harder than high school in the first place .
I think this is a great move - it 's at least worth a try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' says Mary Anderson, headmaster of Pinkerton Academy.
"Speaking as a 19-year old who is attending a community college with a high enrolment of under-18's (via the Running Start [k12.wa.us] program) I can say with full confidence that a lot of them are quite capable of handling it.
They tend to place into the same classes as most freshmen anyways, they do about as well, and most of them adjust quite easily to the community college culture.
CC is easy stuff, not much harder than high school in the first place.
I think this is a great move - it's at least worth a try.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189930</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was in a similar situation a long time ago (late 80s).  I graduated High School as a sixteen year old with both my freshman and sophomore years of college completed through a combination of 5s on multiple AP exams (without the benefit of a HS course) and night/summer college classes.  I have several older siblings and felt very mature for my age.  Luckily, my transition to full time college did not require me to move and I stayed under my parent's roof for two more years.  I felt that college was a much better learning environment for me compared to High School.  Education is what you make of it (or your parent's force you to make of it...) and I had no problem handling the change to college.  If you go to college expecting to party and you will likely party.  If you go to college wanting to learn and you will likely learn.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in a similar situation a long time ago ( late 80s ) .
I graduated High School as a sixteen year old with both my freshman and sophomore years of college completed through a combination of 5s on multiple AP exams ( without the benefit of a HS course ) and night/summer college classes .
I have several older siblings and felt very mature for my age .
Luckily , my transition to full time college did not require me to move and I stayed under my parent 's roof for two more years .
I felt that college was a much better learning environment for me compared to High School .
Education is what you make of it ( or your parent 's force you to make of it... ) and I had no problem handling the change to college .
If you go to college expecting to party and you will likely party .
If you go to college wanting to learn and you will likely learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in a similar situation a long time ago (late 80s).
I graduated High School as a sixteen year old with both my freshman and sophomore years of college completed through a combination of 5s on multiple AP exams (without the benefit of a HS course) and night/summer college classes.
I have several older siblings and felt very mature for my age.
Luckily, my transition to full time college did not require me to move and I stayed under my parent's roof for two more years.
I felt that college was a much better learning environment for me compared to High School.
Education is what you make of it (or your parent's force you to make of it...) and I had no problem handling the change to college.
If you go to college expecting to party and you will likely party.
If you go to college wanting to learn and you will likely learn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192186</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266492300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>16 year olds are many times more likely to wreck a car than 19 year olds, because those 19 year olds have 3 years of driving experience the 16 year olds don't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>16 year olds are many times more likely to wreck a car than 19 year olds , because those 19 year olds have 3 years of driving experience the 16 year olds do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>16 year olds are many times more likely to wreck a car than 19 year olds, because those 19 year olds have 3 years of driving experience the 16 year olds don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190152</id>
	<title>MN PSEO 13 years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A long time ago in MN I tested in to Post Secondary Program and started full time at the University instead of going to local HS, got credit for HS and college and the state paid for tuition (and books).  Sounds like these states want to give the top students a raw deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A long time ago in MN I tested in to Post Secondary Program and started full time at the University instead of going to local HS , got credit for HS and college and the state paid for tuition ( and books ) .
Sounds like these states want to give the top students a raw deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A long time ago in MN I tested in to Post Secondary Program and started full time at the University instead of going to local HS, got credit for HS and college and the state paid for tuition (and books).
Sounds like these states want to give the top students a raw deal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189528</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189274</id>
	<title>This is an alternative to fixing high school</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the main problems we have in our k-12 system compared to others is we try to put everyone into a "1 size fits all" school. What we should do is have schools that specialize. Allow the schools to put into place entrance exams -- like our college system. This is just a lame attempt to evade the problem by getting kids out of school sooner. Better to focus on the problem itself, as that will help far more people and won't require the colleges to lower their standards even further. (College today is comparable to high school 50 years ago.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the main problems we have in our k-12 system compared to others is we try to put everyone into a " 1 size fits all " school .
What we should do is have schools that specialize .
Allow the schools to put into place entrance exams -- like our college system .
This is just a lame attempt to evade the problem by getting kids out of school sooner .
Better to focus on the problem itself , as that will help far more people and wo n't require the colleges to lower their standards even further .
( College today is comparable to high school 50 years ago .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the main problems we have in our k-12 system compared to others is we try to put everyone into a "1 size fits all" school.
What we should do is have schools that specialize.
Allow the schools to put into place entrance exams -- like our college system.
This is just a lame attempt to evade the problem by getting kids out of school sooner.
Better to focus on the problem itself, as that will help far more people and won't require the colleges to lower their standards even further.
(College today is comparable to high school 50 years ago.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195264</id>
	<title>I went to SUNY SB at 16 in the 1980s</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1266510240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went there for a combination of reasons including boredom, but the biggest single one was one bully who was difficult to deal with. I dealt reasonably successfully with bullies closer to my size, but this one was tougher, captain of the wrestling team, outweighed me by fifty pounds and was two years older, socially connected, showing off to a girlfriend, and so on. It's hard to remember how much in fear for my life I was then (not sure how justified that fear was.) Sometimes walking away towards something better is the best thing you can do when those around you don't or can't help.<br>
  <a href="http://homeschooling.families.com/blog/bullying-may-be-a-good-reason-to-homeschool" title="families.com">http://homeschooling.families.com/blog/bullying-may-be-a-good-reason-to-homeschool</a> [families.com] <br>
  <a href="http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/kids/" title="hrsa.gov">http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/kids/</a> [hrsa.gov] <br>My Taekwondo instructor showed me how to kill the bully if he ever assaulted me again, but that did not seem like a good idea for multiple reasons, even assuming what the instructor taught was accurate. And I have since studied Aikido which has better ways to handle violence, including redirecting negative energy in more positive ways. Had the bully been the only thing about high school that was a problem, I might have tried harder to get the school to do something else to deal with the situation rather than my leaving, but in general the coursework was not that challenging. I guess that was also before the time of thinking about filing police reports for assaults in schools. Still, looking back from my forties, I can see many ways that I was more of an ass then (e.g. more of a praise-addicted show off and socially oblivious, if generally well meaning) -- not enough to justify bullying and violence if anything does, but certainly enough not to have enough great social connections to prevent bullying on that scale (others were probably afraid of this guy too, and the usual sad story, his father beat him, etc.). Had the teachers in the two classes we shared -- physics and gym -- not been, respectively, burned-out (taking many breaks outside the classroom) and the head of a wrestling team maybe with a chance at some regional competition that year, things might have been different. And while I was smart enough not to try to kill the bully (what a weight to carry), I was not smart enough to make him into a friend.<br>
  <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Enemies-Into-Friends" title="wikihow.com">http://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Enemies-Into-Friends</a> [wikihow.com] </p><p>Still, I had always wanted to go to MIT, and that then did not work out as I had not taken my SATs; Caltech accepted me probably based on my robotics work (including winning a Navy Science Award) and PSATs, but it seemed so far away and expensive and smoggy and earthquakey, so I did not go. So, leaving early essentially cost me a chance to go to MIT, where I had always wanted to go and do robotics. I had never really associated Caltech with robotics (even though I know now they are a great place for that through JPL work).</p><p>All the admissions person wanted then at SUNY Stony Brook (leaving in the middle of 11th grade) was proof that you had a B or better GPA. I was disappointed they did not want to see my science fair awards and so on. So, if kids can get into major state universities still, why shunt kids off to community college if they are academically minded? If anything, I think that I would have had an easier time of college starting it even earlier, when I would have been more focused on academics and less on social things and hormones. Maybe academically interested kids should skip high school altogether? Then, by the time hormones kick in, they're off to grad school for their PhD and can date undergrads their age?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p><p>With that said, I had a sister who was a residence hall director at SUNY SB, which made it more acceptable (thanks, sis). I also had friends from the chess club and AD&amp;D role playing who had started there the year before. I can see t</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went there for a combination of reasons including boredom , but the biggest single one was one bully who was difficult to deal with .
I dealt reasonably successfully with bullies closer to my size , but this one was tougher , captain of the wrestling team , outweighed me by fifty pounds and was two years older , socially connected , showing off to a girlfriend , and so on .
It 's hard to remember how much in fear for my life I was then ( not sure how justified that fear was .
) Sometimes walking away towards something better is the best thing you can do when those around you do n't or ca n't help .
http : //homeschooling.families.com/blog/bullying-may-be-a-good-reason-to-homeschool [ families.com ] http : //www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/kids/ [ hrsa.gov ] My Taekwondo instructor showed me how to kill the bully if he ever assaulted me again , but that did not seem like a good idea for multiple reasons , even assuming what the instructor taught was accurate .
And I have since studied Aikido which has better ways to handle violence , including redirecting negative energy in more positive ways .
Had the bully been the only thing about high school that was a problem , I might have tried harder to get the school to do something else to deal with the situation rather than my leaving , but in general the coursework was not that challenging .
I guess that was also before the time of thinking about filing police reports for assaults in schools .
Still , looking back from my forties , I can see many ways that I was more of an ass then ( e.g .
more of a praise-addicted show off and socially oblivious , if generally well meaning ) -- not enough to justify bullying and violence if anything does , but certainly enough not to have enough great social connections to prevent bullying on that scale ( others were probably afraid of this guy too , and the usual sad story , his father beat him , etc. ) .
Had the teachers in the two classes we shared -- physics and gym -- not been , respectively , burned-out ( taking many breaks outside the classroom ) and the head of a wrestling team maybe with a chance at some regional competition that year , things might have been different .
And while I was smart enough not to try to kill the bully ( what a weight to carry ) , I was not smart enough to make him into a friend .
http : //www.wikihow.com/Turn-Enemies-Into-Friends [ wikihow.com ] Still , I had always wanted to go to MIT , and that then did not work out as I had not taken my SATs ; Caltech accepted me probably based on my robotics work ( including winning a Navy Science Award ) and PSATs , but it seemed so far away and expensive and smoggy and earthquakey , so I did not go .
So , leaving early essentially cost me a chance to go to MIT , where I had always wanted to go and do robotics .
I had never really associated Caltech with robotics ( even though I know now they are a great place for that through JPL work ) .All the admissions person wanted then at SUNY Stony Brook ( leaving in the middle of 11th grade ) was proof that you had a B or better GPA .
I was disappointed they did not want to see my science fair awards and so on .
So , if kids can get into major state universities still , why shunt kids off to community college if they are academically minded ?
If anything , I think that I would have had an easier time of college starting it even earlier , when I would have been more focused on academics and less on social things and hormones .
Maybe academically interested kids should skip high school altogether ?
Then , by the time hormones kick in , they 're off to grad school for their PhD and can date undergrads their age ?
: - ) With that said , I had a sister who was a residence hall director at SUNY SB , which made it more acceptable ( thanks , sis ) .
I also had friends from the chess club and AD&amp;D role playing who had started there the year before .
I can see t</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went there for a combination of reasons including boredom, but the biggest single one was one bully who was difficult to deal with.
I dealt reasonably successfully with bullies closer to my size, but this one was tougher, captain of the wrestling team, outweighed me by fifty pounds and was two years older, socially connected, showing off to a girlfriend, and so on.
It's hard to remember how much in fear for my life I was then (not sure how justified that fear was.
) Sometimes walking away towards something better is the best thing you can do when those around you don't or can't help.
http://homeschooling.families.com/blog/bullying-may-be-a-good-reason-to-homeschool [families.com] 
  http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/kids/ [hrsa.gov] My Taekwondo instructor showed me how to kill the bully if he ever assaulted me again, but that did not seem like a good idea for multiple reasons, even assuming what the instructor taught was accurate.
And I have since studied Aikido which has better ways to handle violence, including redirecting negative energy in more positive ways.
Had the bully been the only thing about high school that was a problem, I might have tried harder to get the school to do something else to deal with the situation rather than my leaving, but in general the coursework was not that challenging.
I guess that was also before the time of thinking about filing police reports for assaults in schools.
Still, looking back from my forties, I can see many ways that I was more of an ass then (e.g.
more of a praise-addicted show off and socially oblivious, if generally well meaning) -- not enough to justify bullying and violence if anything does, but certainly enough not to have enough great social connections to prevent bullying on that scale (others were probably afraid of this guy too, and the usual sad story, his father beat him, etc.).
Had the teachers in the two classes we shared -- physics and gym -- not been, respectively, burned-out (taking many breaks outside the classroom) and the head of a wrestling team maybe with a chance at some regional competition that year, things might have been different.
And while I was smart enough not to try to kill the bully (what a weight to carry), I was not smart enough to make him into a friend.
http://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Enemies-Into-Friends [wikihow.com] Still, I had always wanted to go to MIT, and that then did not work out as I had not taken my SATs; Caltech accepted me probably based on my robotics work (including winning a Navy Science Award) and PSATs, but it seemed so far away and expensive and smoggy and earthquakey, so I did not go.
So, leaving early essentially cost me a chance to go to MIT, where I had always wanted to go and do robotics.
I had never really associated Caltech with robotics (even though I know now they are a great place for that through JPL work).All the admissions person wanted then at SUNY Stony Brook (leaving in the middle of 11th grade) was proof that you had a B or better GPA.
I was disappointed they did not want to see my science fair awards and so on.
So, if kids can get into major state universities still, why shunt kids off to community college if they are academically minded?
If anything, I think that I would have had an easier time of college starting it even earlier, when I would have been more focused on academics and less on social things and hormones.
Maybe academically interested kids should skip high school altogether?
Then, by the time hormones kick in, they're off to grad school for their PhD and can date undergrads their age?
:-)With that said, I had a sister who was a residence hall director at SUNY SB, which made it more acceptable (thanks, sis).
I also had friends from the chess club and AD&amp;D role playing who had started there the year before.
I can see t</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191780</id>
	<title>Good</title>
	<author>yoshi\_mon</author>
	<datestamp>1266490560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instituting a university level system such that students get a chance to understand it only makes a lot of sense.  Yeah some kids won't be as adept at figuring out how best to work a university level credit system.  And some will game it to some silly end.  But I'm fully of the opinion that letting them have that chance on the public level will only make those who do go on to the higher levels better.</p><p>The only big thing I see is that collages/universities need to be aware that discriminating against those who decided to spend 4 years in high school would be illegal.  If Sally want's to spend 4 years and graduates with a 3.5 GPA and 1500 SAT she is the same as Jane who does the same in 3 years.  Not counting extra-curricular stuff and all that.  I'm sure you all see my point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instituting a university level system such that students get a chance to understand it only makes a lot of sense .
Yeah some kids wo n't be as adept at figuring out how best to work a university level credit system .
And some will game it to some silly end .
But I 'm fully of the opinion that letting them have that chance on the public level will only make those who do go on to the higher levels better.The only big thing I see is that collages/universities need to be aware that discriminating against those who decided to spend 4 years in high school would be illegal .
If Sally want 's to spend 4 years and graduates with a 3.5 GPA and 1500 SAT she is the same as Jane who does the same in 3 years .
Not counting extra-curricular stuff and all that .
I 'm sure you all see my point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instituting a university level system such that students get a chance to understand it only makes a lot of sense.
Yeah some kids won't be as adept at figuring out how best to work a university level credit system.
And some will game it to some silly end.
But I'm fully of the opinion that letting them have that chance on the public level will only make those who do go on to the higher levels better.The only big thing I see is that collages/universities need to be aware that discriminating against those who decided to spend 4 years in high school would be illegal.
If Sally want's to spend 4 years and graduates with a 3.5 GPA and 1500 SAT she is the same as Jane who does the same in 3 years.
Not counting extra-curricular stuff and all that.
I'm sure you all see my point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189760</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>profplump</author>
	<datestamp>1266484200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Replace "school" with "work-release imprisonment" and you'll understand why it's absurd to lock up high-achieving students for 2 more years. You sure wouldn't say "They've already been in prison for 10 years -- what difference does it make if we let them out now or tack on a couple more years to their sentence?".</p><p>It's not like they're doing something useful those last 2 years of school, they're just required by law to attend and to put up with whatever crap gets thrown at them, while forgoing opportunities to make money or continue their education.</p><p>And how would moving on to higher eduction, or into the work force, not also allow them to develop social skills and mature? Does socialization stop once you leave high school? Is high school some magical environment that allows "proper" maturation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Replace " school " with " work-release imprisonment " and you 'll understand why it 's absurd to lock up high-achieving students for 2 more years .
You sure would n't say " They 've already been in prison for 10 years -- what difference does it make if we let them out now or tack on a couple more years to their sentence ?
" .It 's not like they 're doing something useful those last 2 years of school , they 're just required by law to attend and to put up with whatever crap gets thrown at them , while forgoing opportunities to make money or continue their education.And how would moving on to higher eduction , or into the work force , not also allow them to develop social skills and mature ?
Does socialization stop once you leave high school ?
Is high school some magical environment that allows " proper " maturation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Replace "school" with "work-release imprisonment" and you'll understand why it's absurd to lock up high-achieving students for 2 more years.
You sure wouldn't say "They've already been in prison for 10 years -- what difference does it make if we let them out now or tack on a couple more years to their sentence?
".It's not like they're doing something useful those last 2 years of school, they're just required by law to attend and to put up with whatever crap gets thrown at them, while forgoing opportunities to make money or continue their education.And how would moving on to higher eduction, or into the work force, not also allow them to develop social skills and mature?
Does socialization stop once you leave high school?
Is high school some magical environment that allows "proper" maturation?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192828</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1266495540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>community college != low-end education</p><p>I live in a city with a major university on one side of town. On the other side is a community college. Almost all of their associates degrees are specifically tailored to be transferable to the University's bachelor programs. This way, people who don't qualify for full-ride scholarships or don't have daddy paying their way can get the first two years of their education under their belt for between 1/3 and 1/2 of what it would cost for four full years at a University.</p><p>I went to this community college and more than half of my instructors for those two years were also professors at the University. So I don't think the argument could be made that there might have been a significant quality delta between the two. (And for what its worth, the community college had a far superior library.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>community college ! = low-end educationI live in a city with a major university on one side of town .
On the other side is a community college .
Almost all of their associates degrees are specifically tailored to be transferable to the University 's bachelor programs .
This way , people who do n't qualify for full-ride scholarships or do n't have daddy paying their way can get the first two years of their education under their belt for between 1/3 and 1/2 of what it would cost for four full years at a University.I went to this community college and more than half of my instructors for those two years were also professors at the University .
So I do n't think the argument could be made that there might have been a significant quality delta between the two .
( And for what its worth , the community college had a far superior library .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>community college != low-end educationI live in a city with a major university on one side of town.
On the other side is a community college.
Almost all of their associates degrees are specifically tailored to be transferable to the University's bachelor programs.
This way, people who don't qualify for full-ride scholarships or don't have daddy paying their way can get the first two years of their education under their belt for between 1/3 and 1/2 of what it would cost for four full years at a University.I went to this community college and more than half of my instructors for those two years were also professors at the University.
So I don't think the argument could be made that there might have been a significant quality delta between the two.
(And for what its worth, the community college had a far superior library.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190002</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>medeii</author>
	<datestamp>1266484860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Community colleges offer virtually the same learning experience as a full university, especially for basic education credits -- and what do most students take in their first two years, anyway? So unless you live within walking distance of a top-ten university, chances are you'll be just as challenged by the content, and you get all the benefits of geographic accessibility at a fraction of the cost. Plus, most community colleges have a maximum class size of 30 rather than 300.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Community colleges offer virtually the same learning experience as a full university , especially for basic education credits -- and what do most students take in their first two years , anyway ?
So unless you live within walking distance of a top-ten university , chances are you 'll be just as challenged by the content , and you get all the benefits of geographic accessibility at a fraction of the cost .
Plus , most community colleges have a maximum class size of 30 rather than 300 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Community colleges offer virtually the same learning experience as a full university, especially for basic education credits -- and what do most students take in their first two years, anyway?
So unless you live within walking distance of a top-ten university, chances are you'll be just as challenged by the content, and you get all the benefits of geographic accessibility at a fraction of the cost.
Plus, most community colleges have a maximum class size of 30 rather than 300.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189350</id>
	<title>It's a cost-cutting measure.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The real purpose of this is to cut education costs by only providing 10 years of free public education, instead of 12.  Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement courses. This also helps keep poor kids from moving up in society, by diverting them off to some low-end community college, instead of bringing them to the point where they can compete for entrance to a good school.
Rich kids in private schools will have an even bigger edge than they have now.
</p><p>
The next step will be to divert the kids who don't make the cut into "work experience" programs, i.e. McDonalds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real purpose of this is to cut education costs by only providing 10 years of free public education , instead of 12 .
Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement courses .
This also helps keep poor kids from moving up in society , by diverting them off to some low-end community college , instead of bringing them to the point where they can compete for entrance to a good school .
Rich kids in private schools will have an even bigger edge than they have now .
The next step will be to divert the kids who do n't make the cut into " work experience " programs , i.e .
McDonalds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The real purpose of this is to cut education costs by only providing 10 years of free public education, instead of 12.
Schools can dump all the expensive advanced placement courses.
This also helps keep poor kids from moving up in society, by diverting them off to some low-end community college, instead of bringing them to the point where they can compete for entrance to a good school.
Rich kids in private schools will have an even bigger edge than they have now.
The next step will be to divert the kids who don't make the cut into "work experience" programs, i.e.
McDonalds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189284</id>
	<title>Let's See...</title>
	<author>Cornwallis</author>
	<datestamp>1266526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In our small rural school the population of kids declined by 10\% this year (but the school taxes went up 5\%) and is projected to decline another 5\% next year. And the taxes are going up another 3\%.</p><p>So with *this* plan - kicking the kids out of high school two years early - I guess I can plan on my taxes going up another 20-30\%?!?!?!</p><p>And then in another eight or so years there will be *no* students due to our aging population, and the fact that fucking school taxes are so high nobody younger that 50 could *afford* to live here.</p><p>I'm sure the School Board Bloodsuckers will increase our taxes 100\% to pay for a school system with no students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In our small rural school the population of kids declined by 10 \ % this year ( but the school taxes went up 5 \ % ) and is projected to decline another 5 \ % next year .
And the taxes are going up another 3 \ % .So with * this * plan - kicking the kids out of high school two years early - I guess I can plan on my taxes going up another 20-30 \ % ? ! ? ! ?
! And then in another eight or so years there will be * no * students due to our aging population , and the fact that fucking school taxes are so high nobody younger that 50 could * afford * to live here.I 'm sure the School Board Bloodsuckers will increase our taxes 100 \ % to pay for a school system with no students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In our small rural school the population of kids declined by 10\% this year (but the school taxes went up 5\%) and is projected to decline another 5\% next year.
And the taxes are going up another 3\%.So with *this* plan - kicking the kids out of high school two years early - I guess I can plan on my taxes going up another 20-30\%?!?!?
!And then in another eight or so years there will be *no* students due to our aging population, and the fact that fucking school taxes are so high nobody younger that 50 could *afford* to live here.I'm sure the School Board Bloodsuckers will increase our taxes 100\% to pay for a school system with no students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31196324</id>
	<title>Highschool = Prison, Community College an Escape</title>
	<author>Black Gold Alchemist</author>
	<datestamp>1266609900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that.</p></div><p>

This attitude is really a problem among school officials. I'm a homeschooler, now in highschool, which for me is a good community college. When I was in homeschool middle school and elementary school, the local independent study program was inside the local highschool (you go there every two weeks or so to report progress). The highschool was basically a prison - no one could leave - and there were lots of gangs and like. What happened was that the teens got rebellious, the admins cracked down, and then the kids got more rebellious. This loop continued and eventually reached it reached maximum - 1984-like conditions with drugs and gangs everywhere. One friend actually left this highschool for another highschool - because she's Hispanic and real, honest, neo-nazis where causing problems and threatening violence in the school. The problem is that people treated the teens like children, and they reacted to such treatment as any sane person would expect. I'm so glad and lucky I avoided this whole mess by being a homeschooler.<br> <br>

I'm in community college now, and started at the same time I would have entered highschool. I was a little immature at first, but it did not show through socially - I could literally feel myself warping forward in maturity. It has been wonderful. I learned lots of things, and discovered a passion I never knew I had: chemistry and alternative energy (I was just a computer guy before). I got along with people, have college-aged friends, and in general had fun. Being a nerd here is like being a jock in highschool.<br> <br>

I then got a job at a Silicon Valley start-up (we've had our products here on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.), which has been fun. I've learned lots there, and it's been a lot better than working as a fast-food server. It also caused me to really consider business.<br> <br>

I think the US education system needs way less sports, less english, less arts, more science, more business, and most importantly more labs and experimental studies. We also need to lose the "everyone's a winner attitude", because it does not work in the real world. We need to lose the pro-team attitude, and all the positive thinking self-help style stuff. Universities meet with business leaders, determine their needs, and then plan accordingly. Highschool, middle school, and elementary school teachers and admins should meet with the business leaders and the college folks, determine their needs, and plan accordingly. In addition, we need to be aware of the fact that we will need more universities, and more funding. China is building at least a hundred new universities to crank out skilled workers. We're going to need to do the same.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old .
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that .
This attitude is really a problem among school officials .
I 'm a homeschooler , now in highschool , which for me is a good community college .
When I was in homeschool middle school and elementary school , the local independent study program was inside the local highschool ( you go there every two weeks or so to report progress ) .
The highschool was basically a prison - no one could leave - and there were lots of gangs and like .
What happened was that the teens got rebellious , the admins cracked down , and then the kids got more rebellious .
This loop continued and eventually reached it reached maximum - 1984-like conditions with drugs and gangs everywhere .
One friend actually left this highschool for another highschool - because she 's Hispanic and real , honest , neo-nazis where causing problems and threatening violence in the school .
The problem is that people treated the teens like children , and they reacted to such treatment as any sane person would expect .
I 'm so glad and lucky I avoided this whole mess by being a homeschooler .
I 'm in community college now , and started at the same time I would have entered highschool .
I was a little immature at first , but it did not show through socially - I could literally feel myself warping forward in maturity .
It has been wonderful .
I learned lots of things , and discovered a passion I never knew I had : chemistry and alternative energy ( I was just a computer guy before ) .
I got along with people , have college-aged friends , and in general had fun .
Being a nerd here is like being a jock in highschool .
I then got a job at a Silicon Valley start-up ( we 've had our products here on / .
) , which has been fun .
I 've learned lots there , and it 's been a lot better than working as a fast-food server .
It also caused me to really consider business .
I think the US education system needs way less sports , less english , less arts , more science , more business , and most importantly more labs and experimental studies .
We also need to lose the " everyone 's a winner attitude " , because it does not work in the real world .
We need to lose the pro-team attitude , and all the positive thinking self-help style stuff .
Universities meet with business leaders , determine their needs , and then plan accordingly .
Highschool , middle school , and elementary school teachers and admins should meet with the business leaders and the college folks , determine their needs , and plan accordingly .
In addition , we need to be aware of the fact that we will need more universities , and more funding .
China is building at least a hundred new universities to crank out skilled workers .
We 're going to need to do the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.
... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that.
This attitude is really a problem among school officials.
I'm a homeschooler, now in highschool, which for me is a good community college.
When I was in homeschool middle school and elementary school, the local independent study program was inside the local highschool (you go there every two weeks or so to report progress).
The highschool was basically a prison - no one could leave - and there were lots of gangs and like.
What happened was that the teens got rebellious, the admins cracked down, and then the kids got more rebellious.
This loop continued and eventually reached it reached maximum - 1984-like conditions with drugs and gangs everywhere.
One friend actually left this highschool for another highschool - because she's Hispanic and real, honest, neo-nazis where causing problems and threatening violence in the school.
The problem is that people treated the teens like children, and they reacted to such treatment as any sane person would expect.
I'm so glad and lucky I avoided this whole mess by being a homeschooler.
I'm in community college now, and started at the same time I would have entered highschool.
I was a little immature at first, but it did not show through socially - I could literally feel myself warping forward in maturity.
It has been wonderful.
I learned lots of things, and discovered a passion I never knew I had: chemistry and alternative energy (I was just a computer guy before).
I got along with people, have college-aged friends, and in general had fun.
Being a nerd here is like being a jock in highschool.
I then got a job at a Silicon Valley start-up (we've had our products here on /.
), which has been fun.
I've learned lots there, and it's been a lot better than working as a fast-food server.
It also caused me to really consider business.
I think the US education system needs way less sports, less english, less arts, more science, more business, and most importantly more labs and experimental studies.
We also need to lose the "everyone's a winner attitude", because it does not work in the real world.
We need to lose the pro-team attitude, and all the positive thinking self-help style stuff.
Universities meet with business leaders, determine their needs, and then plan accordingly.
Highschool, middle school, and elementary school teachers and admins should meet with the business leaders and the college folks, determine their needs, and plan accordingly.
In addition, we need to be aware of the fact that we will need more universities, and more funding.
China is building at least a hundred new universities to crank out skilled workers.
We're going to need to do the same.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189876</id>
	<title>Huzzah!</title>
	<author>Jawn98685</author>
	<datestamp>1266484560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"...we have been tied to seat time for 100 years..."<br>
Amen.<br>
My niece lives in Washington and was able to take advantage of this program. She graduated from Washington State University last year, at the age of 20. That she is a hard worker goes almost without saying, but I see nothing but good about rewarding that hard work with the huge head start she got in the pursuit of her baccalaureate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...we have been tied to seat time for 100 years... " Amen .
My niece lives in Washington and was able to take advantage of this program .
She graduated from Washington State University last year , at the age of 20 .
That she is a hard worker goes almost without saying , but I see nothing but good about rewarding that hard work with the huge head start she got in the pursuit of her baccalaureate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...we have been tied to seat time for 100 years..."
Amen.
My niece lives in Washington and was able to take advantage of this program.
She graduated from Washington State University last year, at the age of 20.
That she is a hard worker goes almost without saying, but I see nothing but good about rewarding that hard work with the huge head start she got in the pursuit of her baccalaureate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190118</id>
	<title>Sixteen</title>
	<author>HikingStick</author>
	<datestamp>1266485160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We seem to forget that, in much of the world and during earlier periods of American history, young people transitioned to adulthood much earlier than they do today.  Thus, in many cultures, children take on adult responsibilities at age sixteen or even earlier.  Besides, the only students who might seem out of place as a result of this plan are those who move on during the first few years of the program.  Once it is well established, seeing 16-year old "kids" in college will be the norm.<br> <br>To me, moving to board exams is a great idea.  It lets those who are able to move ahead do so, and it takes pressure off some of those who might need a little extra time to master a subject before moving on.  I'm all for it (even if my own kids despise the idea)!</htmltext>
<tokenext>We seem to forget that , in much of the world and during earlier periods of American history , young people transitioned to adulthood much earlier than they do today .
Thus , in many cultures , children take on adult responsibilities at age sixteen or even earlier .
Besides , the only students who might seem out of place as a result of this plan are those who move on during the first few years of the program .
Once it is well established , seeing 16-year old " kids " in college will be the norm .
To me , moving to board exams is a great idea .
It lets those who are able to move ahead do so , and it takes pressure off some of those who might need a little extra time to master a subject before moving on .
I 'm all for it ( even if my own kids despise the idea ) !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We seem to forget that, in much of the world and during earlier periods of American history, young people transitioned to adulthood much earlier than they do today.
Thus, in many cultures, children take on adult responsibilities at age sixteen or even earlier.
Besides, the only students who might seem out of place as a result of this plan are those who move on during the first few years of the program.
Once it is well established, seeing 16-year old "kids" in college will be the norm.
To me, moving to board exams is a great idea.
It lets those who are able to move ahead do so, and it takes pressure off some of those who might need a little extra time to master a subject before moving on.
I'm all for it (even if my own kids despise the idea)!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194388</id>
	<title>GRE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266504600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has existed for years.  It is called the GRE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has existed for years .
It is called the GRE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has existed for years.
It is called the GRE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193890</id>
	<title>Some much for education</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266501360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this from the same people that are pushing mathematics and science in school? Good idea except mathematics is only useful sometimes and the science being taught must have come from another dimension.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this from the same people that are pushing mathematics and science in school ?
Good idea except mathematics is only useful sometimes and the science being taught must have come from another dimension .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this from the same people that are pushing mathematics and science in school?
Good idea except mathematics is only useful sometimes and the science being taught must have come from another dimension.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192792</id>
	<title>Re:maturity?</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1266495480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,'<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults.</p></div><p>Yeah. How dare you treat a 12 year old like a child?</p><p>Here's a thought. Allow them to learn advanced material, at their own pace, and don't force them into an adolescent environment prematurely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that, ' ...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults.Yeah .
How dare you treat a 12 year old like a child ? Here 's a thought .
Allow them to learn advanced material , at their own pace , and do n't force them into an adolescent environment prematurely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' ...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults.Yeah.
How dare you treat a 12 year old like a child?Here's a thought.
Allow them to learn advanced material, at their own pace, and don't force them into an adolescent environment prematurely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191758</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1266490440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing, but what's the rush?  Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old?</p></div><p>It might, in the face of NCLB, those last two years could kill any motivation they might have. Going to college 2 years early is not just an advancement, it's recognition of excellence, the same sort of recognition that's quashed in high school because of "A winnar is everyone!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing , but what 's the rush ?
Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old ? It might , in the face of NCLB , those last two years could kill any motivation they might have .
Going to college 2 years early is not just an advancement , it 's recognition of excellence , the same sort of recognition that 's quashed in high school because of " A winnar is everyone !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing, but what's the rush?
Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old?It might, in the face of NCLB, those last two years could kill any motivation they might have.
Going to college 2 years early is not just an advancement, it's recognition of excellence, the same sort of recognition that's quashed in high school because of "A winnar is everyone!
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189540</id>
	<title>For vocational schools</title>
	<author>blastum</author>
	<datestamp>1266526740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wrote to ask the author what this would do to, say, having four years of english, four years of science, four years of math, etc. The impression I get is that this is designed for people wanting to go on to vocational schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wrote to ask the author what this would do to , say , having four years of english , four years of science , four years of math , etc .
The impression I get is that this is designed for people wanting to go on to vocational schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wrote to ask the author what this would do to, say, having four years of english, four years of science, four years of math, etc.
The impression I get is that this is designed for people wanting to go on to vocational schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189816</id>
	<title>agreed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed with the headmaster. I went to university at 16 and stuck out like a sore thumb. Social effects? the one guy in rez who cant go to the bar until 3rd year, so very few friends for 3 years, and none in the "popular" crowd.  Not even fucking worth it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed with the headmaster .
I went to university at 16 and stuck out like a sore thumb .
Social effects ?
the one guy in rez who cant go to the bar until 3rd year , so very few friends for 3 years , and none in the " popular " crowd .
Not even fucking worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed with the headmaster.
I went to university at 16 and stuck out like a sore thumb.
Social effects?
the one guy in rez who cant go to the bar until 3rd year, so very few friends for 3 years, and none in the "popular" crowd.
Not even fucking worth it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190204</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually in Florida they have a program where at the end of High School you graduate with an AA degree. Seems like a better plan to me. Offer college level classes in high school so when you graduate you have the first two years done.<br>Then go off to college at 18, or if you so want the military for two years, or work a year or what ever you want at 18 and still be on target to graduate by 22.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually in Florida they have a program where at the end of High School you graduate with an AA degree .
Seems like a better plan to me .
Offer college level classes in high school so when you graduate you have the first two years done.Then go off to college at 18 , or if you so want the military for two years , or work a year or what ever you want at 18 and still be on target to graduate by 22 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually in Florida they have a program where at the end of High School you graduate with an AA degree.
Seems like a better plan to me.
Offer college level classes in high school so when you graduate you have the first two years done.Then go off to college at 18, or if you so want the military for two years, or work a year or what ever you want at 18 and still be on target to graduate by 22.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193980</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266502020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was involved in a program similar to the one in the story.  In my case, I was allowed to take community college classes my junior and senior years, while still technically being in high school, and I was able to take my full schedule to the community college.</p><p>Why community college?  Because I could actually do it.  It was a fairly small town, and it was a good couple hours drive away from the nearest four year college.  Not to mention the price.  Community college credit hours are generally much cheaper than four year colleges, even before you get in to fees.</p><p>The way I look at it, going to community college for two years allowed to me almost get an actual high school level education.  Make sure their high school can challenge them?  I've lived in two states, and have to say I see no indication that this is possible in either of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was involved in a program similar to the one in the story .
In my case , I was allowed to take community college classes my junior and senior years , while still technically being in high school , and I was able to take my full schedule to the community college.Why community college ?
Because I could actually do it .
It was a fairly small town , and it was a good couple hours drive away from the nearest four year college .
Not to mention the price .
Community college credit hours are generally much cheaper than four year colleges , even before you get in to fees.The way I look at it , going to community college for two years allowed to me almost get an actual high school level education .
Make sure their high school can challenge them ?
I 've lived in two states , and have to say I see no indication that this is possible in either of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was involved in a program similar to the one in the story.
In my case, I was allowed to take community college classes my junior and senior years, while still technically being in high school, and I was able to take my full schedule to the community college.Why community college?
Because I could actually do it.
It was a fairly small town, and it was a good couple hours drive away from the nearest four year college.
Not to mention the price.
Community college credit hours are generally much cheaper than four year colleges, even before you get in to fees.The way I look at it, going to community college for two years allowed to me almost get an actual high school level education.
Make sure their high school can challenge them?
I've lived in two states, and have to say I see no indication that this is possible in either of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31205992</id>
	<title>States like TX have been doing this for awhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266583020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surprised there haven't been<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.ers that mentioned the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science (<a href="http://www.tams.unt.edu/" title="unt.edu" rel="nofollow">www.tams.unt.edu</a> [unt.edu]) at The University of North Texas. This program has been around for 20+years as a 2yr early admissions college program for the best students in TX interested in STEM careers. Initially it was the only game in the state for the best of the best students until the mid-90's when a separate liberal arts based program (<a href="http://www.texasacademy.org/" title="texasacademy.org" rel="nofollow">TALH</a> [texasacademy.org]) was created at Lamar University.</p><p>As to the quality of student productivity for 16/17/18 yr olds... not only are they mature enough to succeed at a research intensive university, they compete with the brightest students in the country based on not only being named Intel and Siemens science competition semifinalists/finalists but also <a href="http://www.act.org/goldwater/" title="act.org" rel="nofollow">Barry Goldwater Scholars</a> [act.org]. Over the last 10-15yrs that UNT has nominated students, the vast majority have been TAMS students, and the resulting named scholars from TAMS/UNT equal or outweigh in number those from the 'other' larger TX research universities.</p><p>In other words, the brightest 16yr olds (however you measure them) can succeed - excel even - at the college level, way beyond what most give them credit for. I'm an old-school TAMS graduate myself and many of my former classmates are like myself, PhDs, MDs, DOs, JDs, etc. providing needed economic growth not only to TX but across the country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surprised there have n't been /.ers that mentioned the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science ( www.tams.unt.edu [ unt.edu ] ) at The University of North Texas .
This program has been around for 20 + years as a 2yr early admissions college program for the best students in TX interested in STEM careers .
Initially it was the only game in the state for the best of the best students until the mid-90 's when a separate liberal arts based program ( TALH [ texasacademy.org ] ) was created at Lamar University.As to the quality of student productivity for 16/17/18 yr olds... not only are they mature enough to succeed at a research intensive university , they compete with the brightest students in the country based on not only being named Intel and Siemens science competition semifinalists/finalists but also Barry Goldwater Scholars [ act.org ] .
Over the last 10-15yrs that UNT has nominated students , the vast majority have been TAMS students , and the resulting named scholars from TAMS/UNT equal or outweigh in number those from the 'other ' larger TX research universities.In other words , the brightest 16yr olds ( however you measure them ) can succeed - excel even - at the college level , way beyond what most give them credit for .
I 'm an old-school TAMS graduate myself and many of my former classmates are like myself , PhDs , MDs , DOs , JDs , etc .
providing needed economic growth not only to TX but across the country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surprised there haven't been /.ers that mentioned the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science (www.tams.unt.edu [unt.edu]) at The University of North Texas.
This program has been around for 20+years as a 2yr early admissions college program for the best students in TX interested in STEM careers.
Initially it was the only game in the state for the best of the best students until the mid-90's when a separate liberal arts based program (TALH [texasacademy.org]) was created at Lamar University.As to the quality of student productivity for 16/17/18 yr olds... not only are they mature enough to succeed at a research intensive university, they compete with the brightest students in the country based on not only being named Intel and Siemens science competition semifinalists/finalists but also Barry Goldwater Scholars [act.org].
Over the last 10-15yrs that UNT has nominated students, the vast majority have been TAMS students, and the resulting named scholars from TAMS/UNT equal or outweigh in number those from the 'other' larger TX research universities.In other words, the brightest 16yr olds (however you measure them) can succeed - excel even - at the college level, way beyond what most give them credit for.
I'm an old-school TAMS graduate myself and many of my former classmates are like myself, PhDs, MDs, DOs, JDs, etc.
providing needed economic growth not only to TX but across the country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31196700</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1266571860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Here, anything over an 80 is in the A range. Fuck. When I was a kid, you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range.</p></div><p>Doesn't that mean the university courses are harder now?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here , anything over an 80 is in the A range .
Fuck. When I was a kid , you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range.Does n't that mean the university courses are harder now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here, anything over an 80 is in the A range.
Fuck. When I was a kid, you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range.Doesn't that mean the university courses are harder now?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity. They might have the book learnin' but they won't have the lived experience. The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20, mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality. There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.
<p>
Also, I teach some classes in media theory, I recently had a girl in the class who was "super bright" and graduated HS early. She was 17, and she pretty well flunked out.
</p><p>
I completely agree with your fear re: the "Everyone Is A Winner!!!" idiocy so prevalent in the USA. Given the power of money in the USA I am quite certain that rich assholes would buy their kids through the process by dumbing down the test. We can already see that in the stupendously stupid grade values given to students in University.Here, anything over an 80 is in the A range. Fuck. When I was a kid, you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range. And today, less than a 50 is a fail, in my youth, less than 65 was a fail. Why the softening? Parents who give money to schools want their babies to come out with A's all around...
</p><p>
I think that if this "testing out" of high school is implemented, your worst fears will come true: rich little idiots will end up in university at a young age, and here in university, we'll be passing them along because of the grade inflation.
</p><p>
Argh.
</p><p>
RS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the problem is , the test is not likely to test emotional maturity .
They might have the book learnin ' but they wo n't have the lived experience .
The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that are n't fully developed until 19 or 20 , mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality .
There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old .
Also , I teach some classes in media theory , I recently had a girl in the class who was " super bright " and graduated HS early .
She was 17 , and she pretty well flunked out .
I completely agree with your fear re : the " Everyone Is A Winner ! ! !
" idiocy so prevalent in the USA .
Given the power of money in the USA I am quite certain that rich assholes would buy their kids through the process by dumbing down the test .
We can already see that in the stupendously stupid grade values given to students in University.Here , anything over an 80 is in the A range .
Fuck. When I was a kid , you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range .
And today , less than a 50 is a fail , in my youth , less than 65 was a fail .
Why the softening ?
Parents who give money to schools want their babies to come out with A 's all around.. . I think that if this " testing out " of high school is implemented , your worst fears will come true : rich little idiots will end up in university at a young age , and here in university , we 'll be passing them along because of the grade inflation .
Argh . RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity.
They might have the book learnin' but they won't have the lived experience.
The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20, mostly having to do with risk assessment and sociality.
There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.
Also, I teach some classes in media theory, I recently had a girl in the class who was "super bright" and graduated HS early.
She was 17, and she pretty well flunked out.
I completely agree with your fear re: the "Everyone Is A Winner!!!
" idiocy so prevalent in the USA.
Given the power of money in the USA I am quite certain that rich assholes would buy their kids through the process by dumbing down the test.
We can already see that in the stupendously stupid grade values given to students in University.Here, anything over an 80 is in the A range.
Fuck. When I was a kid, you had to get better than a 92 to get in the A range.
And today, less than a 50 is a fail, in my youth, less than 65 was a fail.
Why the softening?
Parents who give money to schools want their babies to come out with A's all around...

I think that if this "testing out" of high school is implemented, your worst fears will come true: rich little idiots will end up in university at a young age, and here in university, we'll be passing them along because of the grade inflation.
Argh.

RS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191830</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266490680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I attended CC before moving on to a full university, and I had to retake a physics lab at university because they didn't accept the CC credits. The 3-hour lab period at the CC consisted of collecting data experimentally.  After that, we were expected to analyze the data, generate graphs, and write up our data and conclusions in a lab report that was 5 - 10 pages long.  The same lab at the university consisted of 1.5 hours of sitting through heavily guided experiments.  During lab, we filled in the blanks on the "lab reports" that were issued by the TA at the beginning of the class.  Don't judge quality of education by the label on the institution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I attended CC before moving on to a full university , and I had to retake a physics lab at university because they did n't accept the CC credits .
The 3-hour lab period at the CC consisted of collecting data experimentally .
After that , we were expected to analyze the data , generate graphs , and write up our data and conclusions in a lab report that was 5 - 10 pages long .
The same lab at the university consisted of 1.5 hours of sitting through heavily guided experiments .
During lab , we filled in the blanks on the " lab reports " that were issued by the TA at the beginning of the class .
Do n't judge quality of education by the label on the institution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I attended CC before moving on to a full university, and I had to retake a physics lab at university because they didn't accept the CC credits.
The 3-hour lab period at the CC consisted of collecting data experimentally.
After that, we were expected to analyze the data, generate graphs, and write up our data and conclusions in a lab report that was 5 - 10 pages long.
The same lab at the university consisted of 1.5 hours of sitting through heavily guided experiments.
During lab, we filled in the blanks on the "lab reports" that were issued by the TA at the beginning of the class.
Don't judge quality of education by the label on the institution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190770</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1266486780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first two years of college are filled with meaningless pre-reqs.  It only makes sense to get them out of the way at a low cost, local, part-time institution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first two years of college are filled with meaningless pre-reqs .
It only makes sense to get them out of the way at a low cost , local , part-time institution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first two years of college are filled with meaningless pre-reqs.
It only makes sense to get them out of the way at a low cost, local, part-time institution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190522</id>
	<title>My Bro's Wife</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1266486180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Graduated HS and CC on the same day.  They let her attend CC classes while in HS (the college credits applied to her HS requirements). Tis a good system for those who can handle it.</p><p>Individual treatment in general will improve education.</p><p>My cool story is that i was bright (but not brilliant) but hated doing repetitive nonsense (homework).  i would have been a great student if graded on tests alone.  Our current systems grade obedience more than intelligence or learning.  In HS i had all the credits i needed to graduate my junior year (aside from senior english).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Graduated HS and CC on the same day .
They let her attend CC classes while in HS ( the college credits applied to her HS requirements ) .
T is a good system for those who can handle it.Individual treatment in general will improve education.My cool story is that i was bright ( but not brilliant ) but hated doing repetitive nonsense ( homework ) .
i would have been a great student if graded on tests alone .
Our current systems grade obedience more than intelligence or learning .
In HS i had all the credits i needed to graduate my junior year ( aside from senior english ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Graduated HS and CC on the same day.
They let her attend CC classes while in HS (the college credits applied to her HS requirements).
Tis a good system for those who can handle it.Individual treatment in general will improve education.My cool story is that i was bright (but not brilliant) but hated doing repetitive nonsense (homework).
i would have been a great student if graded on tests alone.
Our current systems grade obedience more than intelligence or learning.
In HS i had all the credits i needed to graduate my junior year (aside from senior english).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189348</id>
	<title>It's all about individual cases</title>
	<author>ghack</author>
	<datestamp>1266526260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14.  Graduated at 19, Summa Cum Laude with a B.S. in engineering.  Masters from Purdue at 21. I'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.</p><p>Believe it or not, I am extremely social!</p><p>My girlfriend, who is a foreign national, started her University studies at 16.</p><p>It is all about individual cases.  Great to see more flexibility in the educational system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14 .
Graduated at 19 , Summa Cum Laude with a B.S .
in engineering .
Masters from Purdue at 21 .
I 'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.Believe it or not , I am extremely social ! My girlfriend , who is a foreign national , started her University studies at 16.It is all about individual cases .
Great to see more flexibility in the educational system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to the University of New Mexico at 14.
Graduated at 19, Summa Cum Laude with a B.S.
in engineering.
Masters from Purdue at 21.
I'm now 23 and a semester away from my Ph.D.Believe it or not, I am extremely social!My girlfriend, who is a foreign national, started her University studies at 16.It is all about individual cases.
Great to see more flexibility in the educational system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190468</id>
	<title>Going to college young was a great experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college. 'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.</p></div><p>I went to college full-time at 15 and it was great; much better than high school. The "social and emotional implications" were overwhelmingly positive; I grew a lot more from being in college than high school. People mature when you stop treating them like kids, and start acting responsibly when you make them responsible for themselves. Once during freshman year I had to go to back my high school to get a transcript or something, and it was very jarring when some teachers I encountered treated me like a high school student--someone whom they don't trust to act maturely and who has to be herded around to classes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college .
'That 's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.I went to college full-time at 15 and it was great ; much better than high school .
The " social and emotional implications " were overwhelmingly positive ; I grew a lot more from being in college than high school .
People mature when you stop treating them like kids , and start acting responsibly when you make them responsible for themselves .
Once during freshman year I had to go to back my high school to get a transcript or something , and it was very jarring when some teachers I encountered treated me like a high school student--someone whom they do n't trust to act maturely and who has to be herded around to classes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college.
'That's far too young to be thrown into an environment with college students who are about 18 to 23 years old.I went to college full-time at 15 and it was great; much better than high school.
The "social and emotional implications" were overwhelmingly positive; I grew a lot more from being in college than high school.
People mature when you stop treating them like kids, and start acting responsibly when you make them responsible for themselves.
Once during freshman year I had to go to back my high school to get a transcript or something, and it was very jarring when some teachers I encountered treated me like a high school student--someone whom they don't trust to act maturely and who has to be herded around to classes.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189502</id>
	<title>We've been able to do that in Maryland for awhile</title>
	<author>alispguru</author>
	<datestamp>1266526620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're a homeschooler, and you're 16 or older, and you can pass the placement exam (math and english) at the community college at the college level, you can become a "concurrent enrollment" student and take classes for transferrable college credit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're a homeschooler , and you 're 16 or older , and you can pass the placement exam ( math and english ) at the community college at the college level , you can become a " concurrent enrollment " student and take classes for transferrable college credit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're a homeschooler, and you're 16 or older, and you can pass the placement exam (math and english) at the community college at the college level, you can become a "concurrent enrollment" student and take classes for transferrable college credit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191592</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>White Flame</author>
	<datestamp>1266489720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a crucially important developmental time in their life.  At this stage in school, you get incredibly bright kids who are increasingly bored and get out of the habit of actually exercising their intellect and interests, and get a lot of smart kids turning to self-destructive behavior out of this sheer boredom and a sense of pointlessness about their activities.</p><p>If your concern is well-roundedness, then *exposure to new experiences* is what you should be actively seeking for them, not locking them in the same stale environment for unnecessary *years* for no more reason than "gotta jump through these hoops".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a crucially important developmental time in their life .
At this stage in school , you get incredibly bright kids who are increasingly bored and get out of the habit of actually exercising their intellect and interests , and get a lot of smart kids turning to self-destructive behavior out of this sheer boredom and a sense of pointlessness about their activities.If your concern is well-roundedness , then * exposure to new experiences * is what you should be actively seeking for them , not locking them in the same stale environment for unnecessary * years * for no more reason than " got ta jump through these hoops " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a crucially important developmental time in their life.
At this stage in school, you get incredibly bright kids who are increasingly bored and get out of the habit of actually exercising their intellect and interests, and get a lot of smart kids turning to self-destructive behavior out of this sheer boredom and a sense of pointlessness about their activities.If your concern is well-roundedness, then *exposure to new experiences* is what you should be actively seeking for them, not locking them in the same stale environment for unnecessary *years* for no more reason than "gotta jump through these hoops".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31200348</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>neurovish</author>
	<datestamp>1266600120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?  Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.  </p><p>A community college does not have that environment.</p></div><p>Really?  I took several of my pre-engineering courses at the local community college (as did 1/2 the engineering students at my university) because the classes/professors there had a reputation of being better than those teaching the courses at the university.  I would agree.  Community colleges aren't 2nd class universities where the kids who aren't smart enough to go to a real school end up.  I found most of the students in the community college courses were more motivated than my university "peers".  I eventually concluded that the community college students were mostly there to actually learn and had a goal in mind, whereas a good portion of the students at the university were only there because they're parents said they had to go, or "that's what you do after high school", or they heard that computer engineers make a lot of money.  I also found that my professors at the community college were there to teach and pass on what they knew.  Their counterparts at the university were really interested in their grants and research, but the university forced them to teach.  Unless you had them for a course that was relevant to their research, they were just playing the part and really didn't care.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life , why on earth would you be going to community college ?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them , or get them to a college with an academic environment that will .
A community college does not have that environment.Really ?
I took several of my pre-engineering courses at the local community college ( as did 1/2 the engineering students at my university ) because the classes/professors there had a reputation of being better than those teaching the courses at the university .
I would agree .
Community colleges are n't 2nd class universities where the kids who are n't smart enough to go to a real school end up .
I found most of the students in the community college courses were more motivated than my university " peers " .
I eventually concluded that the community college students were mostly there to actually learn and had a goal in mind , whereas a good portion of the students at the university were only there because they 're parents said they had to go , or " that 's what you do after high school " , or they heard that computer engineers make a lot of money .
I also found that my professors at the community college were there to teach and pass on what they knew .
Their counterparts at the university were really interested in their grants and research , but the university forced them to teach .
Unless you had them for a course that was relevant to their research , they were just playing the part and really did n't care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are achieving that much at that time in your life, why on earth would you be going to community college?
Either make sure that their high schools can challenge them, or get them to a college with an academic environment that will.
A community college does not have that environment.Really?
I took several of my pre-engineering courses at the local community college (as did 1/2 the engineering students at my university) because the classes/professors there had a reputation of being better than those teaching the courses at the university.
I would agree.
Community colleges aren't 2nd class universities where the kids who aren't smart enough to go to a real school end up.
I found most of the students in the community college courses were more motivated than my university "peers".
I eventually concluded that the community college students were mostly there to actually learn and had a goal in mind, whereas a good portion of the students at the university were only there because they're parents said they had to go, or "that's what you do after high school", or they heard that computer engineers make a lot of money.
I also found that my professors at the community college were there to teach and pass on what they knew.
Their counterparts at the university were really interested in their grants and research, but the university forced them to teach.
Unless you had them for a course that was relevant to their research, they were just playing the part and really didn't care.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192304</id>
	<title>16 year olds too young for college?</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1266492960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to college (a 4-year state school) at age 16, after 3 years of high school.  I fit in there a damned sight better than I ever fit into high school.  Methinks the principal objecting is probably more worried about losing per-student funding than he is about the maturity level of the students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to college ( a 4-year state school ) at age 16 , after 3 years of high school .
I fit in there a damned sight better than I ever fit into high school .
Methinks the principal objecting is probably more worried about losing per-student funding than he is about the maturity level of the students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to college (a 4-year state school) at age 16, after 3 years of high school.
I fit in there a damned sight better than I ever fit into high school.
Methinks the principal objecting is probably more worried about losing per-student funding than he is about the maturity level of the students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190532</id>
	<title>maybe...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...if their parents raised them like the parents of those kids in those high-performing foreign schools do, they would be mature enough for college.. like not letting them watch 15 hours of tv a day, or letting them experience the effects of alcohol in a safe environment so they don't feel like they have to sneak out and binge with their contemporaries, or setting rules and consequences for breaking them - and sticking to those rules, or actually talking to them about sex, drugs, and similar subjects most american parent avoid like the plague.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...if their parents raised them like the parents of those kids in those high-performing foreign schools do , they would be mature enough for college.. like not letting them watch 15 hours of tv a day , or letting them experience the effects of alcohol in a safe environment so they do n't feel like they have to sneak out and binge with their contemporaries , or setting rules and consequences for breaking them - and sticking to those rules , or actually talking to them about sex , drugs , and similar subjects most american parent avoid like the plague .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if their parents raised them like the parents of those kids in those high-performing foreign schools do, they would be mature enough for college.. like not letting them watch 15 hours of tv a day, or letting them experience the effects of alcohol in a safe environment so they don't feel like they have to sneak out and binge with their contemporaries, or setting rules and consequences for breaking them - and sticking to those rules, or actually talking to them about sex, drugs, and similar subjects most american parent avoid like the plague.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192370</id>
	<title>I'll take the Florida approach</title>
	<author>bieber</author>
	<datestamp>1266493260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I left High School, I'd built up almost exactly two years worth of college credit from AP and dual enrollment classes (would have been over 2 years worth, if they hadn't lost one of my AP tests).  Now I'm in my second year at University, and with only four classes a semester I'll still be set up to graduate before the end of my senior year, with a couple of graduate credits to boot.  Sure, I could have accomplished the same thing by graduating two years early and going to a CC, but I would have had to pay for (or find scholarships for) that, while my high school paid for my AP tests and dual enrollment tuition.  Not to mention the fact that going straight to a 4-year university got me a nice little bunch of scholarships...</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I left High School , I 'd built up almost exactly two years worth of college credit from AP and dual enrollment classes ( would have been over 2 years worth , if they had n't lost one of my AP tests ) .
Now I 'm in my second year at University , and with only four classes a semester I 'll still be set up to graduate before the end of my senior year , with a couple of graduate credits to boot .
Sure , I could have accomplished the same thing by graduating two years early and going to a CC , but I would have had to pay for ( or find scholarships for ) that , while my high school paid for my AP tests and dual enrollment tuition .
Not to mention the fact that going straight to a 4-year university got me a nice little bunch of scholarships.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I left High School, I'd built up almost exactly two years worth of college credit from AP and dual enrollment classes (would have been over 2 years worth, if they hadn't lost one of my AP tests).
Now I'm in my second year at University, and with only four classes a semester I'll still be set up to graduate before the end of my senior year, with a couple of graduate credits to boot.
Sure, I could have accomplished the same thing by graduating two years early and going to a CC, but I would have had to pay for (or find scholarships for) that, while my high school paid for my AP tests and dual enrollment tuition.
Not to mention the fact that going straight to a 4-year university got me a nice little bunch of scholarships...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192934</id>
	<title>Re:Society can't make up it's mind</title>
	<author>digsbo</author>
	<datestamp>1266496020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with most of what you posted, but I am curious why is there a want/need to define a norm.  Can't each family choose for itself how it promotes its offspring toward adulthood?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with most of what you posted , but I am curious why is there a want/need to define a norm .
Ca n't each family choose for itself how it promotes its offspring toward adulthood ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with most of what you posted, but I am curious why is there a want/need to define a norm.
Can't each family choose for itself how it promotes its offspring toward adulthood?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190722</id>
	<title>College fits better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266486660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I started college classes 2 years early.  For me, I felt I fit in with the college freshmen MUCH better than I did with the high school kids.  Advanced skills kids typically yearn to be with their own kind (or, if you prefer, geeks and nerds).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I started college classes 2 years early .
For me , I felt I fit in with the college freshmen MUCH better than I did with the high school kids .
Advanced skills kids typically yearn to be with their own kind ( or , if you prefer , geeks and nerds ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started college classes 2 years early.
For me, I felt I fit in with the college freshmen MUCH better than I did with the high school kids.
Advanced skills kids typically yearn to be with their own kind (or, if you prefer, geeks and nerds).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</id>
	<title>What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>Radtastic</author>
	<datestamp>1266525960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing, but what's the rush?  Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old?
<br> <br>
Part of life (and particularly school) is learning social skills and maturing.
<br> <br>
Frankly, I want my children to grow into rounded, self confident individuals in addition to learning how to apply themselves and succeed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing , but what 's the rush ?
Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old ?
Part of life ( and particularly school ) is learning social skills and maturing .
Frankly , I want my children to grow into rounded , self confident individuals in addition to learning how to apply themselves and succeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not saying advancing more gifted students is a bad thing, but what's the rush?
Will it really matter in 20 years if they graduated at 16 or 18 years old?
Part of life (and particularly school) is learning social skills and maturing.
Frankly, I want my children to grow into rounded, self confident individuals in addition to learning how to apply themselves and succeed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189604</id>
	<title>Pennsylvania should know</title>
	<author>RemoWilliams84</author>
	<datestamp>1266483720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pennsylvania should know if they are ready to move on to college based on the live webcam feeds they have of the students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pennsylvania should know if they are ready to move on to college based on the live webcam feeds they have of the students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pennsylvania should know if they are ready to move on to college based on the live webcam feeds they have of the students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189436</id>
	<title>Re:maturity?</title>
	<author>subsonic</author>
	<datestamp>1266526500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This.  There is nothing that says kids can't handle bigger concepts or complex situations.  I'm not saying we need to scar kids for life, but presenting them with a situation that is daunting but do-able.  Even smart kids need to know that they can work hard and survive a little on their own.</p><p>Plus, its stupid to think that once one is out of high school that they are thrust out into the wild.  This isn't a vision quest, its freaking community college!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This .
There is nothing that says kids ca n't handle bigger concepts or complex situations .
I 'm not saying we need to scar kids for life , but presenting them with a situation that is daunting but do-able .
Even smart kids need to know that they can work hard and survive a little on their own.Plus , its stupid to think that once one is out of high school that they are thrust out into the wild .
This is n't a vision quest , its freaking community college !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This.
There is nothing that says kids can't handle bigger concepts or complex situations.
I'm not saying we need to scar kids for life, but presenting them with a situation that is daunting but do-able.
Even smart kids need to know that they can work hard and survive a little on their own.Plus, its stupid to think that once one is out of high school that they are thrust out into the wild.
This isn't a vision quest, its freaking community college!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190158</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>elfprince13</author>
	<datestamp>1266485280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My thoughts exactly. Community college isn't any different from high school except that it wastes less of your time. I could have graduated a year and a half early *without* the special plan, if I'd been so inclined, and if I had, I would have wanted to go straight to a real college (as it was I got to take classes for free at Middlebury College my junior and senior years of high school, which was my incentive not to graduate early)</htmltext>
<tokenext>My thoughts exactly .
Community college is n't any different from high school except that it wastes less of your time .
I could have graduated a year and a half early * without * the special plan , if I 'd been so inclined , and if I had , I would have wanted to go straight to a real college ( as it was I got to take classes for free at Middlebury College my junior and senior years of high school , which was my incentive not to graduate early )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My thoughts exactly.
Community college isn't any different from high school except that it wastes less of your time.
I could have graduated a year and a half early *without* the special plan, if I'd been so inclined, and if I had, I would have wanted to go straight to a real college (as it was I got to take classes for free at Middlebury College my junior and senior years of high school, which was my incentive not to graduate early)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190632</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries for the wrong group</title>
	<author>DavidDK</author>
	<datestamp>1266486420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity</i> <br> <br>

If it did, many of the 18-19 year olds would fail getting into college while many of the 16 ahead-of-time year olds would be a home-run.<br> <br>

It is (many of) the 18-19 year olds that are not mature enough to be decent when bright 16 year olds surpass them in class.  Sadly, those 18-19 year olds don't get more mature with age in that aspect.  There is so many adults that can't take 16 year old software developers seriously.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the problem is , the test is not likely to test emotional maturity If it did , many of the 18-19 year olds would fail getting into college while many of the 16 ahead-of-time year olds would be a home-run .
It is ( many of ) the 18-19 year olds that are not mature enough to be decent when bright 16 year olds surpass them in class .
Sadly , those 18-19 year olds do n't get more mature with age in that aspect .
There is so many adults that ca n't take 16 year old software developers seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the problem is, the test is not likely to test emotional maturity  

If it did, many of the 18-19 year olds would fail getting into college while many of the 16 ahead-of-time year olds would be a home-run.
It is (many of) the 18-19 year olds that are not mature enough to be decent when bright 16 year olds surpass them in class.
Sadly, those 18-19 year olds don't get more mature with age in that aspect.
There is so many adults that can't take 16 year old software developers seriously.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195338</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>LihTox</author>
	<datestamp>1266510900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think one benefit is that community college is non-residential, so that 16-year-olds can transition to more challenging/more relevant classes without having to make the jump to living on their own.  I wouldn't be concerned about these students taking classes at Harvard, but I'd wonder how they'd handle the social scene, two years younger than their peers.</p><p>If this program becomes widespread, though, are academically ambitious kids going to feel pressured to graduate early (maybe earlier than they feel comfortable with) just to keep up with their peers?  That sounds a little dangerous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think one benefit is that community college is non-residential , so that 16-year-olds can transition to more challenging/more relevant classes without having to make the jump to living on their own .
I would n't be concerned about these students taking classes at Harvard , but I 'd wonder how they 'd handle the social scene , two years younger than their peers.If this program becomes widespread , though , are academically ambitious kids going to feel pressured to graduate early ( maybe earlier than they feel comfortable with ) just to keep up with their peers ?
That sounds a little dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think one benefit is that community college is non-residential, so that 16-year-olds can transition to more challenging/more relevant classes without having to make the jump to living on their own.
I wouldn't be concerned about these students taking classes at Harvard, but I'd wonder how they'd handle the social scene, two years younger than their peers.If this program becomes widespread, though, are academically ambitious kids going to feel pressured to graduate early (maybe earlier than they feel comfortable with) just to keep up with their peers?
That sounds a little dangerous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191940</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266491040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>uhh i disagree,</p><p>I went to college with people who didn't want to be there. Probably wasted a lot of money doing it too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>uhh i disagree,I went to college with people who did n't want to be there .
Probably wasted a lot of money doing it too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>uhh i disagree,I went to college with people who didn't want to be there.
Probably wasted a lot of money doing it too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189268</id>
	<title>What's new here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about students who make terrible grades, drop out in tenth grade and obtain their GEDs?  Last time I checked the GED gets you into community college just as easily as a real diploma.  What have they actually accomplished here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about students who make terrible grades , drop out in tenth grade and obtain their GEDs ?
Last time I checked the GED gets you into community college just as easily as a real diploma .
What have they actually accomplished here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about students who make terrible grades, drop out in tenth grade and obtain their GEDs?
Last time I checked the GED gets you into community college just as easily as a real diploma.
What have they actually accomplished here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189522</id>
	<title>Has Already Been In Place in Washington</title>
	<author>michaelmanus</author>
	<datestamp>1266526680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In washington, there is a state wide 'running start' program which allows junior and senior high school students enroll and complete coursework in a community college and only at the community college and cast those credits back down to be accepted for high school. Running start students don't have to spend any time in the high school at all.
<br> <br>
I went through this program both my junior and senior year and was able to get an Associate (2 year) degree as i graduated with a high school diploma in 2004. <br> It's a wonderful program... The last two years of high school is just ridiculous anyway. I didn't fit in, and i don't think a lot of kids do. <br> <br> I was much happier at the community college where learning was the goal than at the high school where it really didn't seem that way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In washington , there is a state wide 'running start ' program which allows junior and senior high school students enroll and complete coursework in a community college and only at the community college and cast those credits back down to be accepted for high school .
Running start students do n't have to spend any time in the high school at all .
I went through this program both my junior and senior year and was able to get an Associate ( 2 year ) degree as i graduated with a high school diploma in 2004 .
It 's a wonderful program... The last two years of high school is just ridiculous anyway .
I did n't fit in , and i do n't think a lot of kids do .
I was much happier at the community college where learning was the goal than at the high school where it really did n't seem that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In washington, there is a state wide 'running start' program which allows junior and senior high school students enroll and complete coursework in a community college and only at the community college and cast those credits back down to be accepted for high school.
Running start students don't have to spend any time in the high school at all.
I went through this program both my junior and senior year and was able to get an Associate (2 year) degree as i graduated with a high school diploma in 2004.
It's a wonderful program... The last two years of high school is just ridiculous anyway.
I didn't fit in, and i don't think a lot of kids do.
I was much happier at the community college where learning was the goal than at the high school where it really didn't seem that way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192562</id>
	<title>Not the best solution...</title>
	<author>spiffmastercow</author>
	<datestamp>1266494220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I almost dropped out of high school because I had college entrance scores in the 95th percentile by the end of 7th grade.  I ended up graduated a year early, and I treated college the same way I treated high school -- as a joke.   I became disillusioned with school early on, and thus failed to really get all I could out of my university education.  Graduating even earlier probably would have benefited me. <br> <br>

On the flip side, I dated a girl who graduated high school at 15.  She was bright, but she couldn't take the pressure of university, and she turned into a fuckup.   She flunked out of college, and last I heard she couldn't even hold down a job.  So it's probably not something that can be considered wholely good or bad to allow kids to graduate early.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I almost dropped out of high school because I had college entrance scores in the 95th percentile by the end of 7th grade .
I ended up graduated a year early , and I treated college the same way I treated high school -- as a joke .
I became disillusioned with school early on , and thus failed to really get all I could out of my university education .
Graduating even earlier probably would have benefited me .
On the flip side , I dated a girl who graduated high school at 15 .
She was bright , but she could n't take the pressure of university , and she turned into a fuckup .
She flunked out of college , and last I heard she could n't even hold down a job .
So it 's probably not something that can be considered wholely good or bad to allow kids to graduate early .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I almost dropped out of high school because I had college entrance scores in the 95th percentile by the end of 7th grade.
I ended up graduated a year early, and I treated college the same way I treated high school -- as a joke.
I became disillusioned with school early on, and thus failed to really get all I could out of my university education.
Graduating even earlier probably would have benefited me.
On the flip side, I dated a girl who graduated high school at 15.
She was bright, but she couldn't take the pressure of university, and she turned into a fuckup.
She flunked out of college, and last I heard she couldn't even hold down a job.
So it's probably not something that can be considered wholely good or bad to allow kids to graduate early.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191398</id>
	<title>They're missing the point</title>
	<author>ygbsm</author>
	<datestamp>1266488940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to a medium sized University in the mid-west, and I had a couple of freinds who had graduated early from high school.  One was 16 and didn't have a drivers license yet. He did fine academically (actually outstanding), but faced some social challenges. He would have likely had a better college experience if he'd come to college a couple of years later - why not have a more robust series of high-school options so that you can keep all students gainfully learning throughout the process?  Strong magnet school programs can mitigate this - when I lived in Louisiana I attended an awesome magnet school in 9th grade, but then we moved back to Ohio and my school was good, but not necessarily challenging.</p><p>I think we would be better served by having our best and brightest attend primary and secondary school through the full 12 years, followed by a 4 year college program - get them better educated in the same amount of time vs the same education faster . . .</p><p>Their is much of your education at college that is more that learning the details being instructed - time, maturity and socialization are important.</p><p>Before you go off, yes, I know some people are different, and yes, I know several people made it big after dropping out of college - I'm sharing with you observations based on being 41, working in the military and the civilian sector with many of the best and the brightest / the cream of the crop.</p><p>Feel free to flame, but come talk to me again when you've got some more years in the real world and you may agree more with me than you do today . . .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to a medium sized University in the mid-west , and I had a couple of freinds who had graduated early from high school .
One was 16 and did n't have a drivers license yet .
He did fine academically ( actually outstanding ) , but faced some social challenges .
He would have likely had a better college experience if he 'd come to college a couple of years later - why not have a more robust series of high-school options so that you can keep all students gainfully learning throughout the process ?
Strong magnet school programs can mitigate this - when I lived in Louisiana I attended an awesome magnet school in 9th grade , but then we moved back to Ohio and my school was good , but not necessarily challenging.I think we would be better served by having our best and brightest attend primary and secondary school through the full 12 years , followed by a 4 year college program - get them better educated in the same amount of time vs the same education faster .
. .Their is much of your education at college that is more that learning the details being instructed - time , maturity and socialization are important.Before you go off , yes , I know some people are different , and yes , I know several people made it big after dropping out of college - I 'm sharing with you observations based on being 41 , working in the military and the civilian sector with many of the best and the brightest / the cream of the crop.Feel free to flame , but come talk to me again when you 've got some more years in the real world and you may agree more with me than you do today .
. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to a medium sized University in the mid-west, and I had a couple of freinds who had graduated early from high school.
One was 16 and didn't have a drivers license yet.
He did fine academically (actually outstanding), but faced some social challenges.
He would have likely had a better college experience if he'd come to college a couple of years later - why not have a more robust series of high-school options so that you can keep all students gainfully learning throughout the process?
Strong magnet school programs can mitigate this - when I lived in Louisiana I attended an awesome magnet school in 9th grade, but then we moved back to Ohio and my school was good, but not necessarily challenging.I think we would be better served by having our best and brightest attend primary and secondary school through the full 12 years, followed by a 4 year college program - get them better educated in the same amount of time vs the same education faster .
. .Their is much of your education at college that is more that learning the details being instructed - time, maturity and socialization are important.Before you go off, yes, I know some people are different, and yes, I know several people made it big after dropping out of college - I'm sharing with you observations based on being 41, working in the military and the civilian sector with many of the best and the brightest / the cream of the crop.Feel free to flame, but come talk to me again when you've got some more years in the real world and you may agree more with me than you do today .
. .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189172</id>
	<title>Hard working != Mature</title>
	<author>coniferous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's really great seeing incentives for students to work hard. when I was in high school I knew the rewards were not nearly worth the effort to acheive them... So apathy took over.

HOWEVER. Hard working does not alyways equate to maturity. Its the same as intelligence, smart guys can still be assholes at times.

I'm interested to see how this turns out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really great seeing incentives for students to work hard .
when I was in high school I knew the rewards were not nearly worth the effort to acheive them... So apathy took over .
HOWEVER. Hard working does not alyways equate to maturity .
Its the same as intelligence , smart guys can still be assholes at times .
I 'm interested to see how this turns out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really great seeing incentives for students to work hard.
when I was in high school I knew the rewards were not nearly worth the effort to acheive them... So apathy took over.
HOWEVER. Hard working does not alyways equate to maturity.
Its the same as intelligence, smart guys can still be assholes at times.
I'm interested to see how this turns out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31196120</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Strange Ranger</author>
	<datestamp>1266520680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Simple answer:  Because community college means they are still living at home.<br> <br>That's the whole reason, right there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple answer : Because community college means they are still living at home .
That 's the whole reason , right there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple answer:  Because community college means they are still living at home.
That's the whole reason, right there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189546</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>afidel</author>
	<datestamp>1266526740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only way I mastered calculus was through a CC, I flunked it a couple times at two different engineering schools before taking it with someone who could actually teach at the local CC. Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about. I really don't see where having smaller class sizes and teachers who actually give a damn is a negative.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only way I mastered calculus was through a CC , I flunked it a couple times at two different engineering schools before taking it with someone who could actually teach at the local CC .
Engineers and math people generally ca n't teach worth a damn , even less so in subjects they do n't care about .
I really do n't see where having smaller class sizes and teachers who actually give a damn is a negative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only way I mastered calculus was through a CC, I flunked it a couple times at two different engineering schools before taking it with someone who could actually teach at the local CC.
Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about.
I really don't see where having smaller class sizes and teachers who actually give a damn is a negative.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191380</id>
	<title>Limited plan</title>
	<author>Timenerd</author>
	<datestamp>1266488880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why limit it to a few states and a few schools.  Looks like a plan meant to fail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why limit it to a few states and a few schools .
Looks like a plan meant to fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why limit it to a few states and a few schools.
Looks like a plan meant to fail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190842</id>
	<title>I graduated from high school early.</title>
	<author>landzin</author>
	<datestamp>1266487080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am currently attending the university of Kentucky after graduating from a local high school before I was supposed to, recently after turning 17.  I wish I could have taken a bunch of tests to determine how prepared I was for college instead of taking a couple classes over the summer.


From personal experience I can say that I feel much better in college than high school, my gpa in high school was well lets just say low, while in college I am maintaining( and hopefully improving) on a 3.4, which is higher than the average.  I am majoring in computer engineering and enjoy the classes I am in as opposed to high school where I just bothered to do well enough.  Many of the lower level courses seem to review high school courses heavily, I wish I had been able to graduate earlier so I would only have had to learn it once.  I also very much enjoy living on campus where I have many friends and many people are surprised when I tell them I am only 18 and a sophomore.


My younger brother inspired by what I did graduated from high school at 16 and is also doing similarly, but on the other hand I have actually met other people who graduated early and are not doing nearly as well, being swept up in the social aspects of college, parties, and other such things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am currently attending the university of Kentucky after graduating from a local high school before I was supposed to , recently after turning 17 .
I wish I could have taken a bunch of tests to determine how prepared I was for college instead of taking a couple classes over the summer .
From personal experience I can say that I feel much better in college than high school , my gpa in high school was well lets just say low , while in college I am maintaining ( and hopefully improving ) on a 3.4 , which is higher than the average .
I am majoring in computer engineering and enjoy the classes I am in as opposed to high school where I just bothered to do well enough .
Many of the lower level courses seem to review high school courses heavily , I wish I had been able to graduate earlier so I would only have had to learn it once .
I also very much enjoy living on campus where I have many friends and many people are surprised when I tell them I am only 18 and a sophomore .
My younger brother inspired by what I did graduated from high school at 16 and is also doing similarly , but on the other hand I have actually met other people who graduated early and are not doing nearly as well , being swept up in the social aspects of college , parties , and other such things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am currently attending the university of Kentucky after graduating from a local high school before I was supposed to, recently after turning 17.
I wish I could have taken a bunch of tests to determine how prepared I was for college instead of taking a couple classes over the summer.
From personal experience I can say that I feel much better in college than high school, my gpa in high school was well lets just say low, while in college I am maintaining( and hopefully improving) on a 3.4, which is higher than the average.
I am majoring in computer engineering and enjoy the classes I am in as opposed to high school where I just bothered to do well enough.
Many of the lower level courses seem to review high school courses heavily, I wish I had been able to graduate earlier so I would only have had to learn it once.
I also very much enjoy living on campus where I have many friends and many people are surprised when I tell them I am only 18 and a sophomore.
My younger brother inspired by what I did graduated from high school at 16 and is also doing similarly, but on the other hand I have actually met other people who graduated early and are not doing nearly as well, being swept up in the social aspects of college, parties, and other such things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189196</id>
	<title>Another trial balloon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is more likely just a more sophisticated "trial balloon" which will allow goverments to cut thier education budgets.</p><p>http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/16/should-we-get-rid-of-senior-year/</p><p>The idea DOES have some merit and it worth exploring, but remember to "follow the money..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is more likely just a more sophisticated " trial balloon " which will allow goverments to cut thier education budgets.http : //newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/16/should-we-get-rid-of-senior-year/The idea DOES have some merit and it worth exploring , but remember to " follow the money... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is more likely just a more sophisticated "trial balloon" which will allow goverments to cut thier education budgets.http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/16/should-we-get-rid-of-senior-year/The idea DOES have some merit and it worth exploring, but remember to "follow the money..."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191182</id>
	<title>Already in WA for years</title>
	<author>Chess Piece Face</author>
	<datestamp>1266488220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sort of.  The Running Start program allows high school juniors and seniors to take some or all of their courses at local community colleges and the credits apply towards both.  So technically they don't graduate until 18, but it is possible to start college full time at 16.  This program started in 1992.</p><p>I was a participant in the first year of the program, and it was great for me as I was able to get a mostly free year of college out of it (per student allotments cover the tuition but not books).  The biggest issues were that almost anybody could get in, even without passing the placement exam to a college level (I got in at math 095, others much lower) and that the Running Start students were allowed to sign up before the regular enrollees.</p><p>The program is still in place and going strong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sort of .
The Running Start program allows high school juniors and seniors to take some or all of their courses at local community colleges and the credits apply towards both .
So technically they do n't graduate until 18 , but it is possible to start college full time at 16 .
This program started in 1992.I was a participant in the first year of the program , and it was great for me as I was able to get a mostly free year of college out of it ( per student allotments cover the tuition but not books ) .
The biggest issues were that almost anybody could get in , even without passing the placement exam to a college level ( I got in at math 095 , others much lower ) and that the Running Start students were allowed to sign up before the regular enrollees.The program is still in place and going strong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sort of.
The Running Start program allows high school juniors and seniors to take some or all of their courses at local community colleges and the credits apply towards both.
So technically they don't graduate until 18, but it is possible to start college full time at 16.
This program started in 1992.I was a participant in the first year of the program, and it was great for me as I was able to get a mostly free year of college out of it (per student allotments cover the tuition but not books).
The biggest issues were that almost anybody could get in, even without passing the placement exam to a college level (I got in at math 095, others much lower) and that the Running Start students were allowed to sign up before the regular enrollees.The program is still in place and going strong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194056</id>
	<title>16 year olds already work with older people!</title>
	<author>SexyKellyOsbourne</author>
	<datestamp>1266502440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The maturity element is utter silliness. This is like saying "16 year olds shouldn't hold a job."</p><p>If you are 15 or 16 years old, you can go into the workforce, and many do so. The workforce has plenty of 18-23 year olds, not to mention people well into their 50s and beyond. This is similar to the people at community colleges.</p><p>And like workforces, community colleges don't take any shit. If you even try to pull the stuff you could do in high school in class, you're kicked out. The people who pass the test likely wouldn't, though, and would probably mature faster in an adult environment than they would being stuck in rooms full of 14-15 year old juvenile delinquents.</p><p>The notion of being able to test out of compulsory education at a certain age would the best thing to ever happen to America's outdated Prussianist education system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The maturity element is utter silliness .
This is like saying " 16 year olds should n't hold a job .
" If you are 15 or 16 years old , you can go into the workforce , and many do so .
The workforce has plenty of 18-23 year olds , not to mention people well into their 50s and beyond .
This is similar to the people at community colleges.And like workforces , community colleges do n't take any shit .
If you even try to pull the stuff you could do in high school in class , you 're kicked out .
The people who pass the test likely would n't , though , and would probably mature faster in an adult environment than they would being stuck in rooms full of 14-15 year old juvenile delinquents.The notion of being able to test out of compulsory education at a certain age would the best thing to ever happen to America 's outdated Prussianist education system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The maturity element is utter silliness.
This is like saying "16 year olds shouldn't hold a job.
"If you are 15 or 16 years old, you can go into the workforce, and many do so.
The workforce has plenty of 18-23 year olds, not to mention people well into their 50s and beyond.
This is similar to the people at community colleges.And like workforces, community colleges don't take any shit.
If you even try to pull the stuff you could do in high school in class, you're kicked out.
The people who pass the test likely wouldn't, though, and would probably mature faster in an adult environment than they would being stuck in rooms full of 14-15 year old juvenile delinquents.The notion of being able to test out of compulsory education at a certain age would the best thing to ever happen to America's outdated Prussianist education system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192884</id>
	<title>huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266495840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This makes no sense - if you are a top student you dont want to go to community college you want to go to Harvard or MIT.  And, community college had more 45 year old moms with grown kids going back to school than 18-23 year olds anyway</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This makes no sense - if you are a top student you dont want to go to community college you want to go to Harvard or MIT .
And , community college had more 45 year old moms with grown kids going back to school than 18-23 year olds anyway</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This makes no sense - if you are a top student you dont want to go to community college you want to go to Harvard or MIT.
And, community college had more 45 year old moms with grown kids going back to school than 18-23 year olds anyway</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189100</id>
	<title>maturity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,'<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that, ' ...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'... Most of them are just not mature enough to handle that,' ...and they never will be as long as we continue to treat them like little children instead of young adults.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192182</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266492300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about.</i></p><p>Calculus is straightforward enough for the student to learn using a textbook, without teacher supervision. If this were a rigorous course in real analysis, I'd be willing to cut you some slack, but a CC isn't even going to offer that course.</p><p>It looks to me like you didn't invest enough time into studying, and expected the teacher to feed you all the details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Engineers and math people generally ca n't teach worth a damn , even less so in subjects they do n't care about.Calculus is straightforward enough for the student to learn using a textbook , without teacher supervision .
If this were a rigorous course in real analysis , I 'd be willing to cut you some slack , but a CC is n't even going to offer that course.It looks to me like you did n't invest enough time into studying , and expected the teacher to feed you all the details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Engineers and math people generally can't teach worth a damn, even less so in subjects they don't care about.Calculus is straightforward enough for the student to learn using a textbook, without teacher supervision.
If this were a rigorous course in real analysis, I'd be willing to cut you some slack, but a CC isn't even going to offer that course.It looks to me like you didn't invest enough time into studying, and expected the teacher to feed you all the details.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191126</id>
	<title>This is not new</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266488040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Plenty of states already offer "Running Start" programs, whereby students spend their junior and senior years of high school taking courses at community college.<br>Generally the students who take part on this are not the "best and brightest" but rather the generally smart kids who for whatever reason don't fit in to the culture at their high school, or in some cases students whose interests are far beyond what struggling public schools can offer (such as Vo-Tec, Theater, etc). In my experience, the program was not a brain drain, leaving senior classes filled only with the least motivated.</p><p>In my opinion, the only way to fix public schools is to fix the structural poverty that most poor-performing students are born and raised in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Plenty of states already offer " Running Start " programs , whereby students spend their junior and senior years of high school taking courses at community college.Generally the students who take part on this are not the " best and brightest " but rather the generally smart kids who for whatever reason do n't fit in to the culture at their high school , or in some cases students whose interests are far beyond what struggling public schools can offer ( such as Vo-Tec , Theater , etc ) .
In my experience , the program was not a brain drain , leaving senior classes filled only with the least motivated.In my opinion , the only way to fix public schools is to fix the structural poverty that most poor-performing students are born and raised in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plenty of states already offer "Running Start" programs, whereby students spend their junior and senior years of high school taking courses at community college.Generally the students who take part on this are not the "best and brightest" but rather the generally smart kids who for whatever reason don't fit in to the culture at their high school, or in some cases students whose interests are far beyond what struggling public schools can offer (such as Vo-Tec, Theater, etc).
In my experience, the program was not a brain drain, leaving senior classes filled only with the least motivated.In my opinion, the only way to fix public schools is to fix the structural poverty that most poor-performing students are born and raised in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190528</id>
	<title>Re:It's a cost-cutting measure.</title>
	<author>natehoy</author>
	<datestamp>1266486180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cost cutting is a factor, but AP classes will still be there.  As it was explained on the local radio news here (in Maine), there will be three tracks.</p><p>
&nbsp; - "Advanced Placement" - 4-year track for kids going on to 4+ year degrees.  Pretty much the same as it is today.<br>
&nbsp; - "Fast Graduation" - 2-year track for kids going on to community college or directly to a job.<br>
&nbsp; - "Regular" - 4-year track for average kids.  Again, pretty much the same as it is today, except class sizes get smaller after 10th grade since the "Fast Graduation" kids who would have been bored completely out of their skulls anyway have graduated and aren't disrupting the class.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cost cutting is a factor , but AP classes will still be there .
As it was explained on the local radio news here ( in Maine ) , there will be three tracks .
  - " Advanced Placement " - 4-year track for kids going on to 4 + year degrees .
Pretty much the same as it is today .
  - " Fast Graduation " - 2-year track for kids going on to community college or directly to a job .
  - " Regular " - 4-year track for average kids .
Again , pretty much the same as it is today , except class sizes get smaller after 10th grade since the " Fast Graduation " kids who would have been bored completely out of their skulls anyway have graduated and are n't disrupting the class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cost cutting is a factor, but AP classes will still be there.
As it was explained on the local radio news here (in Maine), there will be three tracks.
  - "Advanced Placement" - 4-year track for kids going on to 4+ year degrees.
Pretty much the same as it is today.
  - "Fast Graduation" - 2-year track for kids going on to community college or directly to a job.
  - "Regular" - 4-year track for average kids.
Again, pretty much the same as it is today, except class sizes get smaller after 10th grade since the "Fast Graduation" kids who would have been bored completely out of their skulls anyway have graduated and aren't disrupting the class.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189302</id>
	<title>Society can't make up it's mind</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1266526140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do we want to extend childhood into a person's 30s and have them live at home as we're seeing a lot of people do? Do we want teenagers with little more maturity than 10 year olds? Let's increase the drinking, driving and voting age, because they can't handle it.</p><p>Or do we want to cut short a kid's childhood so that they start working at 15? Send them to the salt mines young so they can learn their trade early! Never mind the ones that can't handle it and end up depressed or suicidal. Never mind that you've robbed them of the chance to just be kids while they can be. From what I understand you've got enough trouble keeping your kids from coming to school armed.</p><p>Society is messed up, doesn't know what it expects from children, or even where childhood ends. Then people wonder why kids play up and go wild. They've got no clue what's expected of them.</p><p>What's wrong with the middle ground of letting a child have their childhood but not letting it extend into their 20s and 30s? If a child has special needs because they're particularly mature or particularly developed give them that option, but don't make it the norm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do we want to extend childhood into a person 's 30s and have them live at home as we 're seeing a lot of people do ?
Do we want teenagers with little more maturity than 10 year olds ?
Let 's increase the drinking , driving and voting age , because they ca n't handle it.Or do we want to cut short a kid 's childhood so that they start working at 15 ?
Send them to the salt mines young so they can learn their trade early !
Never mind the ones that ca n't handle it and end up depressed or suicidal .
Never mind that you 've robbed them of the chance to just be kids while they can be .
From what I understand you 've got enough trouble keeping your kids from coming to school armed.Society is messed up , does n't know what it expects from children , or even where childhood ends .
Then people wonder why kids play up and go wild .
They 've got no clue what 's expected of them.What 's wrong with the middle ground of letting a child have their childhood but not letting it extend into their 20s and 30s ?
If a child has special needs because they 're particularly mature or particularly developed give them that option , but do n't make it the norm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do we want to extend childhood into a person's 30s and have them live at home as we're seeing a lot of people do?
Do we want teenagers with little more maturity than 10 year olds?
Let's increase the drinking, driving and voting age, because they can't handle it.Or do we want to cut short a kid's childhood so that they start working at 15?
Send them to the salt mines young so they can learn their trade early!
Never mind the ones that can't handle it and end up depressed or suicidal.
Never mind that you've robbed them of the chance to just be kids while they can be.
From what I understand you've got enough trouble keeping your kids from coming to school armed.Society is messed up, doesn't know what it expects from children, or even where childhood ends.
Then people wonder why kids play up and go wild.
They've got no clue what's expected of them.What's wrong with the middle ground of letting a child have their childhood but not letting it extend into their 20s and 30s?
If a child has special needs because they're particularly mature or particularly developed give them that option, but don't make it the norm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192824</id>
	<title>Re:High School students act like High School stude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266495540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Maybe if you didn't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they wouldn't act like such high school students.</i></p><p>Are you saying the sophomores are sophomoric? Surely you jest!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe if you did n't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they would n't act like such high school students.Are you saying the sophomores are sophomoric ?
Surely you jest !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe if you didn't keep 16 year olds stuck in high school when they are ready for college level or trade study then they wouldn't act like such high school students.Are you saying the sophomores are sophomoric?
Surely you jest!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191528</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266489480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20"<br>That's completely a crock of shit.</p><p>"There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old."<br>Because that 19 year old has been driving for 3 more years than the 16 year old.</p><p>That has nothing to do with the physical development of the brain.  You're being entirely disingenuous.</p><p>Last I checked, being a good driver isn't required for collegiate success.  We'll just have to see how it goes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that are n't fully developed until 19 or 20 " That 's completely a crock of shit .
" There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old .
" Because that 19 year old has been driving for 3 more years than the 16 year old.That has nothing to do with the physical development of the brain .
You 're being entirely disingenuous.Last I checked , being a good driver is n't required for collegiate success .
We 'll just have to see how it goes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The teenaged brain is literally missing important parts that aren't fully developed until 19 or 20"That's completely a crock of shit.
"There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.
"Because that 19 year old has been driving for 3 more years than the 16 year old.That has nothing to do with the physical development of the brain.
You're being entirely disingenuous.Last I checked, being a good driver isn't required for collegiate success.
We'll just have to see how it goes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189110</id>
	<title>13th grade</title>
	<author>UndyingShadow</author>
	<datestamp>1266525660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college."

Community college is like 13th grade. If they're mature enough to work to graduate 2 years early, they'll be fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college .
" Community college is like 13th grade .
If they 're mature enough to work to graduate 2 years early , they 'll be fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"However some school officials are concerned about the social and emotional implications of 16-year-olds going off to college.
"

Community college is like 13th grade.
If they're mature enough to work to graduate 2 years early, they'll be fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31195944</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>laddiebuck</author>
	<datestamp>1266517800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college. Yes, I could do all the work. Yes, I could force myself to study when I'd rather be playing.</i> <br> <br>
BS. If you had the requisite self-discipline to study when you wanted to have fun, you had more than most college students do in all their 4 years at college.<br> <br>

You don't go to college to make friends with other idiots. You go there to study, end of story. You are under no obligation to socialise. If you meet people worth knowing, great, but that will be perhaps half a percent of the people you'll get to know. Actually, probably significantly less than that, I'm thinking in workplace terms.<br> <br>

Transition program? What the fuck! Just grow up already. It's enough to be placed in an environment with responsible people, but barring that, having your own sense of responsibility and proportion is enough. If you can't even get that (and I admit your average college dorm is not exactly the ideal place for that), just sit down with some good literature or film and try to get the right ideas from it (though I know only a few people who have done their "maturing" that way).<br> <br>

Now I will concede to you that academic performance isn't a good indicator of maturity. I just took your specific situation. There are various types that are good academically but immature: the upper-middle-class type with a pampered home life, the type without enough imagination to see beyond academics (invariably corrupted when thrown outside that bubble), the parental-ambition-proxy type, the overzealous type... However, by a fortunate twist, many of these have such spotless and boring records that they make it to good schools, and they sort of mature slowly into shape. Even these hopeless types will usually come out fine from an Ivy League university, although they will probably always remain in a slightly rarefied circle. As for those that really are ready, the other schools won't harm them either, they're capable enough to deal with the disadvantages and distractions you get at those schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college .
Yes , I could do all the work .
Yes , I could force myself to study when I 'd rather be playing .
BS. If you had the requisite self-discipline to study when you wanted to have fun , you had more than most college students do in all their 4 years at college .
You do n't go to college to make friends with other idiots .
You go there to study , end of story .
You are under no obligation to socialise .
If you meet people worth knowing , great , but that will be perhaps half a percent of the people you 'll get to know .
Actually , probably significantly less than that , I 'm thinking in workplace terms .
Transition program ?
What the fuck !
Just grow up already .
It 's enough to be placed in an environment with responsible people , but barring that , having your own sense of responsibility and proportion is enough .
If you ca n't even get that ( and I admit your average college dorm is not exactly the ideal place for that ) , just sit down with some good literature or film and try to get the right ideas from it ( though I know only a few people who have done their " maturing " that way ) .
Now I will concede to you that academic performance is n't a good indicator of maturity .
I just took your specific situation .
There are various types that are good academically but immature : the upper-middle-class type with a pampered home life , the type without enough imagination to see beyond academics ( invariably corrupted when thrown outside that bubble ) , the parental-ambition-proxy type , the overzealous type... However , by a fortunate twist , many of these have such spotless and boring records that they make it to good schools , and they sort of mature slowly into shape .
Even these hopeless types will usually come out fine from an Ivy League university , although they will probably always remain in a slightly rarefied circle .
As for those that really are ready , the other schools wo n't harm them either , they 're capable enough to deal with the disadvantages and distractions you get at those schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college.
Yes, I could do all the work.
Yes, I could force myself to study when I'd rather be playing.
BS. If you had the requisite self-discipline to study when you wanted to have fun, you had more than most college students do in all their 4 years at college.
You don't go to college to make friends with other idiots.
You go there to study, end of story.
You are under no obligation to socialise.
If you meet people worth knowing, great, but that will be perhaps half a percent of the people you'll get to know.
Actually, probably significantly less than that, I'm thinking in workplace terms.
Transition program?
What the fuck!
Just grow up already.
It's enough to be placed in an environment with responsible people, but barring that, having your own sense of responsibility and proportion is enough.
If you can't even get that (and I admit your average college dorm is not exactly the ideal place for that), just sit down with some good literature or film and try to get the right ideas from it (though I know only a few people who have done their "maturing" that way).
Now I will concede to you that academic performance isn't a good indicator of maturity.
I just took your specific situation.
There are various types that are good academically but immature: the upper-middle-class type with a pampered home life, the type without enough imagination to see beyond academics (invariably corrupted when thrown outside that bubble), the parental-ambition-proxy type, the overzealous type... However, by a fortunate twist, many of these have such spotless and boring records that they make it to good schools, and they sort of mature slowly into shape.
Even these hopeless types will usually come out fine from an Ivy League university, although they will probably always remain in a slightly rarefied circle.
As for those that really are ready, the other schools won't harm them either, they're capable enough to deal with the disadvantages and distractions you get at those schools.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189280</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Renraku</author>
	<datestamp>1266526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This will last until some parent decides that their kid is smarter than 'the system' and sues for 'discrimination' against '(social class)'.  Where (social class) can be race, disorder, sex, location, criminal record, etc.  It'll quickly be axed by the legal department of whatever schools are taking part in it.  Even without this, there are still a LOT of parents who call up the teachers and demand better grades for their snowflakes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This will last until some parent decides that their kid is smarter than 'the system ' and sues for 'discrimination ' against ' ( social class ) ' .
Where ( social class ) can be race , disorder , sex , location , criminal record , etc .
It 'll quickly be axed by the legal department of whatever schools are taking part in it .
Even without this , there are still a LOT of parents who call up the teachers and demand better grades for their snowflakes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This will last until some parent decides that their kid is smarter than 'the system' and sues for 'discrimination' against '(social class)'.
Where (social class) can be race, disorder, sex, location, criminal record, etc.
It'll quickly be axed by the legal department of whatever schools are taking part in it.
Even without this, there are still a LOT of parents who call up the teachers and demand better grades for their snowflakes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191500</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>Zamerick</author>
	<datestamp>1266489360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the point is that the school systems are dangling a carrot in the students face. "if you study hard enough, you can graduate 2 years early and get out of this hell hole."  I know that if I had had that option I would have worked my ass off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the point is that the school systems are dangling a carrot in the students face .
" if you study hard enough , you can graduate 2 years early and get out of this hell hole .
" I know that if I had had that option I would have worked my ass off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the point is that the school systems are dangling a carrot in the students face.
"if you study hard enough, you can graduate 2 years early and get out of this hell hole.
"  I know that if I had had that option I would have worked my ass off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190330</id>
	<title>Age-Based Social Groups: Bring the classes to them</title>
	<author>Maladius</author>
	<datestamp>1266485700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will.  They'll have all the same problems as those who skip multiple grades.  I would think a better alternative would be to bring those college-level courses to the high school, but to keep all the similarly aged students in the same high school social setting.  Just allow them to get the college level credits sooner.  The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects.  Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will .
They 'll have all the same problems as those who skip multiple grades .
I would think a better alternative would be to bring those college-level courses to the high school , but to keep all the similarly aged students in the same high school social setting .
Just allow them to get the college level credits sooner .
The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects .
Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that most 16-year olds will have different interests and levels of emotional maturity than their 18-year old classmates will.
They'll have all the same problems as those who skip multiple grades.
I would think a better alternative would be to bring those college-level courses to the high school, but to keep all the similarly aged students in the same high school social setting.
Just allow them to get the college level credits sooner.
The social aspects of both high school and college are just as important as the educational aspects.
Those who miss out on the social experiences often regret it later.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189826</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>poetmatt</author>
	<datestamp>1266484380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>beyond your concept of maturity I can't help but ask: what does this type of maturity have to do with scholastic ability?</p><p>I digress but I don't see a link between the two concepts.</p><p>Yes, the everyone is a winner thing is bullshit. It's not all over the US, it's specifically prevalent with helicopter parents and seriously religious ones.</p><p>Really, the system is good, and it's something that's already possible in the us - this is just kinda like bringing it as a potential to all schools - this is a good thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>beyond your concept of maturity I ca n't help but ask : what does this type of maturity have to do with scholastic ability ? I digress but I do n't see a link between the two concepts.Yes , the everyone is a winner thing is bullshit .
It 's not all over the US , it 's specifically prevalent with helicopter parents and seriously religious ones.Really , the system is good , and it 's something that 's already possible in the us - this is just kinda like bringing it as a potential to all schools - this is a good thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>beyond your concept of maturity I can't help but ask: what does this type of maturity have to do with scholastic ability?I digress but I don't see a link between the two concepts.Yes, the everyone is a winner thing is bullshit.
It's not all over the US, it's specifically prevalent with helicopter parents and seriously religious ones.Really, the system is good, and it's something that's already possible in the us - this is just kinda like bringing it as a potential to all schools - this is a good thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191754</id>
	<title>16 not too young</title>
	<author>JeffTL</author>
	<datestamp>1266490440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know someone who started college at 16, first at the community college and then on to a 4-year institution. She now holds a Ph. D. and is dean for graduate studies at a public university in a major Midwestern city.</p><p>And two people who started at 14.  One is the director of the allergy clinic at a research hospital, and a damn good doctor to boot, and the other is me.  I'm 21 now and had a perfectly normal college experience -- graduated summa cum laude in 5 years, and am now just about done with my master's degree.  None of the above seem any worse for the wear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know someone who started college at 16 , first at the community college and then on to a 4-year institution .
She now holds a Ph .
D. and is dean for graduate studies at a public university in a major Midwestern city.And two people who started at 14 .
One is the director of the allergy clinic at a research hospital , and a damn good doctor to boot , and the other is me .
I 'm 21 now and had a perfectly normal college experience -- graduated summa cum laude in 5 years , and am now just about done with my master 's degree .
None of the above seem any worse for the wear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know someone who started college at 16, first at the community college and then on to a 4-year institution.
She now holds a Ph.
D. and is dean for graduate studies at a public university in a major Midwestern city.And two people who started at 14.
One is the director of the allergy clinic at a research hospital, and a damn good doctor to boot, and the other is me.
I'm 21 now and had a perfectly normal college experience -- graduated summa cum laude in 5 years, and am now just about done with my master's degree.
None of the above seem any worse for the wear.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190138</id>
	<title>I'm all for not wasting time in high school, but</title>
	<author>Vahokif</author>
	<datestamp>1266485220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems to me that the most precocious people are frequently the least developed socially. What they need isn't to be alienated even further in an environment consisting of older people, but a way high school can continue to challenge them academically while providing a healthy environment for social development.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me that the most precocious people are frequently the least developed socially .
What they need is n't to be alienated even further in an environment consisting of older people , but a way high school can continue to challenge them academically while providing a healthy environment for social development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me that the most precocious people are frequently the least developed socially.
What they need isn't to be alienated even further in an environment consisting of older people, but a way high school can continue to challenge them academically while providing a healthy environment for social development.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190200</id>
	<title>My experience...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266485400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My grandfather was jumped across two grades in elementary school due to test scores, graduated as the class valedictorian in 1938 at the age of 15, and to this day, his handwriting sucks, since he was jumped across the grades where handwriting was learned!</p><p>I only attended kindergarten for the spring semester. In September 1985, I was at the correct age for kindergarten, but the school district wanted me to start straight into first grade due to my high test scores. My parents fought this, I spent a semester at home in "school limbo", and eventually, in January 1986, I was welcomed into kindergarten. My parents' argument: I might have tested at a first-grade level, but first grade would have chewed up an unprepared 4-year-old who had never been anywhere except preschool before.</p><p>Thanks to my half-baked kindergarten education, I was a less-than-perfect student through K-12; my grades and "standardized test scores" coming nowhere close to each other. My high school GPA? 3.065. SAT? M720/V530. Heck, my SAT was the saving grace that got me into a flagship state university. I wasn't in Gifted, since I didn't meet that threshold, so it was general classes for me. In 11th grade, I had to take the HSCT [High School Competency Test]--I aced the math half and missed something like five questions on the verbal half--I could have passed it in my sleep.</p><p>Even at the time, I was aware that I "kicked ass" on standardized tests, and I realized that there are people out there who were opposite of me: they had 3.5+ GPAs, yet had to struggle through standardized tests.</p><p>Flash back to 1996. Walk up to me, a 130 lb, braces-wearing, 15-year-old, 3.0 GPA high school student who tests solidly at the 11th- or 12th-grade level in every academic subject.</p><p>"If you can pass this battery of tests, we'll give you your high-school diploma, and you can start across town at the community college. If you can get your Associate's degree, you can transfer to a state university and get your Bachelor's degree."</p><p>"If I can pass this battery of tests, I get to go to college. Community college perhaps, but college. I'll bear full responsibility for attending class, taking exams, and studying. Among my fellow students, I'll be judged by my personality, worth ethic, and merit. Nobody will care that I wear braces and don't have a car. No more being heckled by [insert stereotypically ignorant group here]s for actually wanting an education. If I want to grab a part-time job to beef up my savings, I can do it. If I play my cards right, I'll have a BS at 19; maybe 20."</p><p>That would be the hardest you'd have ever seen me study.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My grandfather was jumped across two grades in elementary school due to test scores , graduated as the class valedictorian in 1938 at the age of 15 , and to this day , his handwriting sucks , since he was jumped across the grades where handwriting was learned ! I only attended kindergarten for the spring semester .
In September 1985 , I was at the correct age for kindergarten , but the school district wanted me to start straight into first grade due to my high test scores .
My parents fought this , I spent a semester at home in " school limbo " , and eventually , in January 1986 , I was welcomed into kindergarten .
My parents ' argument : I might have tested at a first-grade level , but first grade would have chewed up an unprepared 4-year-old who had never been anywhere except preschool before.Thanks to my half-baked kindergarten education , I was a less-than-perfect student through K-12 ; my grades and " standardized test scores " coming nowhere close to each other .
My high school GPA ?
3.065. SAT ?
M720/V530. Heck , my SAT was the saving grace that got me into a flagship state university .
I was n't in Gifted , since I did n't meet that threshold , so it was general classes for me .
In 11th grade , I had to take the HSCT [ High School Competency Test ] --I aced the math half and missed something like five questions on the verbal half--I could have passed it in my sleep.Even at the time , I was aware that I " kicked ass " on standardized tests , and I realized that there are people out there who were opposite of me : they had 3.5 + GPAs , yet had to struggle through standardized tests.Flash back to 1996 .
Walk up to me , a 130 lb , braces-wearing , 15-year-old , 3.0 GPA high school student who tests solidly at the 11th- or 12th-grade level in every academic subject .
" If you can pass this battery of tests , we 'll give you your high-school diploma , and you can start across town at the community college .
If you can get your Associate 's degree , you can transfer to a state university and get your Bachelor 's degree .
" " If I can pass this battery of tests , I get to go to college .
Community college perhaps , but college .
I 'll bear full responsibility for attending class , taking exams , and studying .
Among my fellow students , I 'll be judged by my personality , worth ethic , and merit .
Nobody will care that I wear braces and do n't have a car .
No more being heckled by [ insert stereotypically ignorant group here ] s for actually wanting an education .
If I want to grab a part-time job to beef up my savings , I can do it .
If I play my cards right , I 'll have a BS at 19 ; maybe 20 .
" That would be the hardest you 'd have ever seen me study .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My grandfather was jumped across two grades in elementary school due to test scores, graduated as the class valedictorian in 1938 at the age of 15, and to this day, his handwriting sucks, since he was jumped across the grades where handwriting was learned!I only attended kindergarten for the spring semester.
In September 1985, I was at the correct age for kindergarten, but the school district wanted me to start straight into first grade due to my high test scores.
My parents fought this, I spent a semester at home in "school limbo", and eventually, in January 1986, I was welcomed into kindergarten.
My parents' argument: I might have tested at a first-grade level, but first grade would have chewed up an unprepared 4-year-old who had never been anywhere except preschool before.Thanks to my half-baked kindergarten education, I was a less-than-perfect student through K-12; my grades and "standardized test scores" coming nowhere close to each other.
My high school GPA?
3.065. SAT?
M720/V530. Heck, my SAT was the saving grace that got me into a flagship state university.
I wasn't in Gifted, since I didn't meet that threshold, so it was general classes for me.
In 11th grade, I had to take the HSCT [High School Competency Test]--I aced the math half and missed something like five questions on the verbal half--I could have passed it in my sleep.Even at the time, I was aware that I "kicked ass" on standardized tests, and I realized that there are people out there who were opposite of me: they had 3.5+ GPAs, yet had to struggle through standardized tests.Flash back to 1996.
Walk up to me, a 130 lb, braces-wearing, 15-year-old, 3.0 GPA high school student who tests solidly at the 11th- or 12th-grade level in every academic subject.
"If you can pass this battery of tests, we'll give you your high-school diploma, and you can start across town at the community college.
If you can get your Associate's degree, you can transfer to a state university and get your Bachelor's degree.
""If I can pass this battery of tests, I get to go to college.
Community college perhaps, but college.
I'll bear full responsibility for attending class, taking exams, and studying.
Among my fellow students, I'll be judged by my personality, worth ethic, and merit.
Nobody will care that I wear braces and don't have a car.
No more being heckled by [insert stereotypically ignorant group here]s for actually wanting an education.
If I want to grab a part-time job to beef up my savings, I can do it.
If I play my cards right, I'll have a BS at 19; maybe 20.
"That would be the hardest you'd have ever seen me study.
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190378</id>
	<title>No.</title>
	<author>shevsky</author>
	<datestamp>1266485820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Speaking as a recent high school graduate, this isn't the solution.

The solution is to not subject high school students to four years of bullshit, and let them move ahead at the rate they deserve instead of the rate that the worst of them can barely handle.

For people who want more advanced options, getting 2 years of community college before being mature enough for university is definitely one solution, and for those who want/need to work, it's fair to not subject them to 11th and 12th grade. But I feel this way because any individual year of schooling is almost totally worthless, so why not just cut them out if there's a chance to let a person get what they OUGHT to be getting. All realistic knowledge and development of talent at a young age is either outside of the classroom, or so restricted by the classroom it's years behind where it could be.

And people wonder why Americans are falling behind foreign students...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Speaking as a recent high school graduate , this is n't the solution .
The solution is to not subject high school students to four years of bullshit , and let them move ahead at the rate they deserve instead of the rate that the worst of them can barely handle .
For people who want more advanced options , getting 2 years of community college before being mature enough for university is definitely one solution , and for those who want/need to work , it 's fair to not subject them to 11th and 12th grade .
But I feel this way because any individual year of schooling is almost totally worthless , so why not just cut them out if there 's a chance to let a person get what they OUGHT to be getting .
All realistic knowledge and development of talent at a young age is either outside of the classroom , or so restricted by the classroom it 's years behind where it could be .
And people wonder why Americans are falling behind foreign students.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speaking as a recent high school graduate, this isn't the solution.
The solution is to not subject high school students to four years of bullshit, and let them move ahead at the rate they deserve instead of the rate that the worst of them can barely handle.
For people who want more advanced options, getting 2 years of community college before being mature enough for university is definitely one solution, and for those who want/need to work, it's fair to not subject them to 11th and 12th grade.
But I feel this way because any individual year of schooling is almost totally worthless, so why not just cut them out if there's a chance to let a person get what they OUGHT to be getting.
All realistic knowledge and development of talent at a young age is either outside of the classroom, or so restricted by the classroom it's years behind where it could be.
And people wonder why Americans are falling behind foreign students...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189528</id>
	<title>Been doing that in WA for a long time</title>
	<author>Kral\_Blbec</author>
	<datestamp>1266526740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The entire state has a program called Running Start where you can take a test your junior year and if you pass the school district pays your tuition for the local community college. I went to the college full time, never took another class from the HS, and had my college graduation for my AA the day before the HS graduation. Only thing public schools ever did for me besides waste my time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire state has a program called Running Start where you can take a test your junior year and if you pass the school district pays your tuition for the local community college .
I went to the college full time , never took another class from the HS , and had my college graduation for my AA the day before the HS graduation .
Only thing public schools ever did for me besides waste my time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire state has a program called Running Start where you can take a test your junior year and if you pass the school district pays your tuition for the local community college.
I went to the college full time, never took another class from the HS, and had my college graduation for my AA the day before the HS graduation.
Only thing public schools ever did for me besides waste my time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189584</id>
	<title>Similar program in Washington</title>
	<author>gontech</author>
	<datestamp>1266483660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/programs/academy/" title="washington.edu" rel="nofollow">UW Academy</a> [washington.edu]. They didn't give us high school diplomas, but once you have a bachelors, who cares if you graduated from high school? (Also, the continued success of the program is proof that at least some 16 year olds can handle themselves in a university setting)</htmltext>
<tokenext>UW Academy [ washington.edu ] .
They did n't give us high school diplomas , but once you have a bachelors , who cares if you graduated from high school ?
( Also , the continued success of the program is proof that at least some 16 year olds can handle themselves in a university setting )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UW Academy [washington.edu].
They didn't give us high school diplomas, but once you have a bachelors, who cares if you graduated from high school?
(Also, the continued success of the program is proof that at least some 16 year olds can handle themselves in a university setting)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190880</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Mashdar</author>
	<datestamp>1266487140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.</p></div><p>Because they have only been driving a year? Also, NEEDS CITATION.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.Because they have only been driving a year ?
Also , NEEDS CITATION .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a reason why a 16 yr old is many times more likely to wreck a car than a 19 year old.Because they have only been driving a year?
Also, NEEDS CITATION.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189992</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266484860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some community colleges are more rigorous than others.  Practically ALL of them are more rigorous than anything a high school can dish out in 11th and 12th grade.</p><p>Case in point:  I was in the "advanced math" program, which started in 7th grade.  At that time, they simply skipped a grade.  We had the 8th grade program, complete with 8th grade math book.  Following the program to it's logical conclusion, 12th grade consisted of college freshman calculus.  But wait, there is a problem.  How fast did those advanced classed move along?  They jump-started +1 year, and 6 years later, they are still +1 year!</p><p>I was in several other high school "honors" classes, which consisted primarily of more homework.  We could do the work so much faster, they simply gave us more of it.   And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster, they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.</p><p>I think sending 11th and 12th grade kids to community college would be far better than anything we have tried so far.  It might even motivate the older students to focus a little more on studying vs. partying.  I can see high school administrators complaining that they will lose all of the "best" kids, both in academic standing and behavior.  They won't like that, not one little bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some community colleges are more rigorous than others .
Practically ALL of them are more rigorous than anything a high school can dish out in 11th and 12th grade.Case in point : I was in the " advanced math " program , which started in 7th grade .
At that time , they simply skipped a grade .
We had the 8th grade program , complete with 8th grade math book .
Following the program to it 's logical conclusion , 12th grade consisted of college freshman calculus .
But wait , there is a problem .
How fast did those advanced classed move along ?
They jump-started + 1 year , and 6 years later , they are still + 1 year ! I was in several other high school " honors " classes , which consisted primarily of more homework .
We could do the work so much faster , they simply gave us more of it .
And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster , they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.I think sending 11th and 12th grade kids to community college would be far better than anything we have tried so far .
It might even motivate the older students to focus a little more on studying vs. partying. I can see high school administrators complaining that they will lose all of the " best " kids , both in academic standing and behavior .
They wo n't like that , not one little bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some community colleges are more rigorous than others.
Practically ALL of them are more rigorous than anything a high school can dish out in 11th and 12th grade.Case in point:  I was in the "advanced math" program, which started in 7th grade.
At that time, they simply skipped a grade.
We had the 8th grade program, complete with 8th grade math book.
Following the program to it's logical conclusion, 12th grade consisted of college freshman calculus.
But wait, there is a problem.
How fast did those advanced classed move along?
They jump-started +1 year, and 6 years later, they are still +1 year!I was in several other high school "honors" classes, which consisted primarily of more homework.
We could do the work so much faster, they simply gave us more of it.
And since the brightest students could learn the concepts so much faster, they put us all on the fast track to boredom and despair.I think sending 11th and 12th grade kids to community college would be far better than anything we have tried so far.
It might even motivate the older students to focus a little more on studying vs. partying.  I can see high school administrators complaining that they will lose all of the "best" kids, both in academic standing and behavior.
They won't like that, not one little bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189922</id>
	<title>I wish I had had this opportunity</title>
	<author>Yaddoshi</author>
	<datestamp>1266484680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was bored in 11th-12th grade, and I grew tired of watching my peers and their cliques and other silly antics.  College was much better by far, although it wasn't perfect by any stretch.  But yeah - why not reward students for their hard work with something that will actually benefit them in the long run, as opposed to just putting them in the honor roll.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was bored in 11th-12th grade , and I grew tired of watching my peers and their cliques and other silly antics .
College was much better by far , although it was n't perfect by any stretch .
But yeah - why not reward students for their hard work with something that will actually benefit them in the long run , as opposed to just putting them in the honor roll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was bored in 11th-12th grade, and I grew tired of watching my peers and their cliques and other silly antics.
College was much better by far, although it wasn't perfect by any stretch.
But yeah - why not reward students for their hard work with something that will actually benefit them in the long run, as opposed to just putting them in the honor roll.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191108</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266487980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for that extra info.</p><p>When &amp; where I did high school there was another two-stream system. Basic diploma was a four year program, and you could enter college or get a job with that. 'Advanced' was a five year program, and was required to enter university.</p><p>Trouble there, is the advanced program had tougher classes all through, so you had to start with 5 year courses in grade 9 if you wanted to eventually do uni. In grade 8, my teachers recommended I be put in the basic program. Fortunately my parents were not fools and said hell no, put him in advanced and see if he fails first. Instead I did better, because I was finally in classes without violent assholes.</p><p>Other baggage that came with streams is the school had to put the better teachers on the basic courses with the worse students. Means 'advanced' got the tenure headcases that nobody would fire. Which meant I bombed some math, and got myself the heck out of there, did college, and then did uni. Which in hindsight didn't make much sense -- here was a kid who figured out slide rules for himself, liked the then-new calculators and computers, but somehow wasn't good in math. I was in my 30s before I realized I liked math, and actually had a head for it. Total waste.</p><p>Steams are a tricky problem. In this new system I'd be one of those kids who'd jump ship early to get out of school and get working. Should I? Think I'd rather we just stock high school with good teachers and good courses, and consider 'streams' a sideshow that distracts from that base problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for that extra info.When &amp; where I did high school there was another two-stream system .
Basic diploma was a four year program , and you could enter college or get a job with that .
'Advanced ' was a five year program , and was required to enter university.Trouble there , is the advanced program had tougher classes all through , so you had to start with 5 year courses in grade 9 if you wanted to eventually do uni .
In grade 8 , my teachers recommended I be put in the basic program .
Fortunately my parents were not fools and said hell no , put him in advanced and see if he fails first .
Instead I did better , because I was finally in classes without violent assholes.Other baggage that came with streams is the school had to put the better teachers on the basic courses with the worse students .
Means 'advanced ' got the tenure headcases that nobody would fire .
Which meant I bombed some math , and got myself the heck out of there , did college , and then did uni .
Which in hindsight did n't make much sense -- here was a kid who figured out slide rules for himself , liked the then-new calculators and computers , but somehow was n't good in math .
I was in my 30s before I realized I liked math , and actually had a head for it .
Total waste.Steams are a tricky problem .
In this new system I 'd be one of those kids who 'd jump ship early to get out of school and get working .
Should I ?
Think I 'd rather we just stock high school with good teachers and good courses , and consider 'streams ' a sideshow that distracts from that base problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for that extra info.When &amp; where I did high school there was another two-stream system.
Basic diploma was a four year program, and you could enter college or get a job with that.
'Advanced' was a five year program, and was required to enter university.Trouble there, is the advanced program had tougher classes all through, so you had to start with 5 year courses in grade 9 if you wanted to eventually do uni.
In grade 8, my teachers recommended I be put in the basic program.
Fortunately my parents were not fools and said hell no, put him in advanced and see if he fails first.
Instead I did better, because I was finally in classes without violent assholes.Other baggage that came with streams is the school had to put the better teachers on the basic courses with the worse students.
Means 'advanced' got the tenure headcases that nobody would fire.
Which meant I bombed some math, and got myself the heck out of there, did college, and then did uni.
Which in hindsight didn't make much sense -- here was a kid who figured out slide rules for himself, liked the then-new calculators and computers, but somehow wasn't good in math.
I was in my 30s before I realized I liked math, and actually had a head for it.
Total waste.Steams are a tricky problem.
In this new system I'd be one of those kids who'd jump ship early to get out of school and get working.
Should I?
Think I'd rather we just stock high school with good teachers and good courses, and consider 'streams' a sideshow that distracts from that base problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192246</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>guywcole</author>
	<datestamp>1266492660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second the parent.  I <i>did</i> go to community college at 15 when high school didn't offer the opportunities I wanted, and there were basically 3 groups of people there:<br>-Underachievers, who couldn't get into a 4 year school, and their parents didn't know what to do with them.<br>-Underprivileged, who are working hard to be there and take it seriously, and might be anywhere from 18-50 years old.<br>-Underaged, who are bright but not ready to move away.</p><p>Honestly, I preferred my CC days to my undergrad days.  At undergrad, the underprivileged aren't there (by definition), but the underachievers still are; they just have more resources to waste from the same parents that put them in SAT prep classes.  This results in a much lower signal-to-noise ratio, and a much worse environment (at least for the first year or two of undergrad).</p><p>And on that note, I think that the overachievers at 15-17 <i>should</i> be sent to CC, where they will move faster (and more flexibly) than in high school, without the responsibility and risks of undergrad.</p><p>Other commenters below are saying that these students should be sent immediately to a "real" school for the proper "environment".  Let me ask you: unless you went to a place with a culture like MIT (not my alum), were your first 2 years of undergrad really a good academic environment?  I had many more negative environmental influences on my studies at my undergrad institution than my CC, and I've yet to have a friend report differently (including at Ivy League and tech schools).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second the parent .
I did go to community college at 15 when high school did n't offer the opportunities I wanted , and there were basically 3 groups of people there : -Underachievers , who could n't get into a 4 year school , and their parents did n't know what to do with them.-Underprivileged , who are working hard to be there and take it seriously , and might be anywhere from 18-50 years old.-Underaged , who are bright but not ready to move away.Honestly , I preferred my CC days to my undergrad days .
At undergrad , the underprivileged are n't there ( by definition ) , but the underachievers still are ; they just have more resources to waste from the same parents that put them in SAT prep classes .
This results in a much lower signal-to-noise ratio , and a much worse environment ( at least for the first year or two of undergrad ) .And on that note , I think that the overachievers at 15-17 should be sent to CC , where they will move faster ( and more flexibly ) than in high school , without the responsibility and risks of undergrad.Other commenters below are saying that these students should be sent immediately to a " real " school for the proper " environment " .
Let me ask you : unless you went to a place with a culture like MIT ( not my alum ) , were your first 2 years of undergrad really a good academic environment ?
I had many more negative environmental influences on my studies at my undergrad institution than my CC , and I 've yet to have a friend report differently ( including at Ivy League and tech schools ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second the parent.
I did go to community college at 15 when high school didn't offer the opportunities I wanted, and there were basically 3 groups of people there:-Underachievers, who couldn't get into a 4 year school, and their parents didn't know what to do with them.-Underprivileged, who are working hard to be there and take it seriously, and might be anywhere from 18-50 years old.-Underaged, who are bright but not ready to move away.Honestly, I preferred my CC days to my undergrad days.
At undergrad, the underprivileged aren't there (by definition), but the underachievers still are; they just have more resources to waste from the same parents that put them in SAT prep classes.
This results in a much lower signal-to-noise ratio, and a much worse environment (at least for the first year or two of undergrad).And on that note, I think that the overachievers at 15-17 should be sent to CC, where they will move faster (and more flexibly) than in high school, without the responsibility and risks of undergrad.Other commenters below are saying that these students should be sent immediately to a "real" school for the proper "environment".
Let me ask you: unless you went to a place with a culture like MIT (not my alum), were your first 2 years of undergrad really a good academic environment?
I had many more negative environmental influences on my studies at my undergrad institution than my CC, and I've yet to have a friend report differently (including at Ivy League and tech schools).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191418</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>JoeBrockhaus</author>
	<datestamp>1266489000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>on the flip side -- there are many students who are simply not challenged by their schools and teachers, and for 2 years until they graduate high school, they lose their potential, drive, maturity. Then when they get to college, they are in a culture shock just the same.<br> <br>

bottom line is: what's the harm in being stuck in a situation that could be too much to handle? you have 2 years' advantage on every other one of your new peers. you have the advantage</htmltext>
<tokenext>on the flip side -- there are many students who are simply not challenged by their schools and teachers , and for 2 years until they graduate high school , they lose their potential , drive , maturity .
Then when they get to college , they are in a culture shock just the same .
bottom line is : what 's the harm in being stuck in a situation that could be too much to handle ?
you have 2 years ' advantage on every other one of your new peers .
you have the advantage</tokentext>
<sentencetext>on the flip side -- there are many students who are simply not challenged by their schools and teachers, and for 2 years until they graduate high school, they lose their potential, drive, maturity.
Then when they get to college, they are in a culture shock just the same.
bottom line is: what's the harm in being stuck in a situation that could be too much to handle?
you have 2 years' advantage on every other one of your new peers.
you have the advantage</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189254</id>
	<title>Not too bad</title>
	<author>MBGMorden</author>
	<datestamp>1266526020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the fears about the kids at college are a bit unfounded.  Due to being at the tail end of the cutoff date for starting my grade (which at the time was Nov 1 - I was born October 11), I ended up graduating high school normally, as well as starting college at 17.  I know several other students who opted to take summer school classes to skip the 11th grade and graduate a year early.  Me nor any of them that went to college had any issues.</p><p>The reality is most 16 year olds who are mature enough to handle this, are mature enough to handle the social situations of college.  Yes, like most college students they'll probably hit up some parties and such, but the reality is most high school students are already doing that anyways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the fears about the kids at college are a bit unfounded .
Due to being at the tail end of the cutoff date for starting my grade ( which at the time was Nov 1 - I was born October 11 ) , I ended up graduating high school normally , as well as starting college at 17 .
I know several other students who opted to take summer school classes to skip the 11th grade and graduate a year early .
Me nor any of them that went to college had any issues.The reality is most 16 year olds who are mature enough to handle this , are mature enough to handle the social situations of college .
Yes , like most college students they 'll probably hit up some parties and such , but the reality is most high school students are already doing that anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the fears about the kids at college are a bit unfounded.
Due to being at the tail end of the cutoff date for starting my grade (which at the time was Nov 1 - I was born October 11), I ended up graduating high school normally, as well as starting college at 17.
I know several other students who opted to take summer school classes to skip the 11th grade and graduate a year early.
Me nor any of them that went to college had any issues.The reality is most 16 year olds who are mature enough to handle this, are mature enough to handle the social situations of college.
Yes, like most college students they'll probably hit up some parties and such, but the reality is most high school students are already doing that anyways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189378</id>
	<title>A community college does not have that environment</title>
	<author>wiredog</author>
	<datestamp>1266526320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends on the college and the course of study.  NVCC is well regarded as a prep school of sorts for GMU, GWU, and UMD.  Do your first year or two at a much lower cost than a "real" university.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on the college and the course of study .
NVCC is well regarded as a prep school of sorts for GMU , GWU , and UMD .
Do your first year or two at a much lower cost than a " real " university .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on the college and the course of study.
NVCC is well regarded as a prep school of sorts for GMU, GWU, and UMD.
Do your first year or two at a much lower cost than a "real" university.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189296</id>
	<title>California had that 30 years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called a GED.</p><p>I could have tested out and gone to community college. I knew a few people that did exactly that.</p><p>Thing was (and maybe still is) that a GED carried a certain stigma. My perception at the time was that it was better to stick it out in high school and get my diploma.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called a GED.I could have tested out and gone to community college .
I knew a few people that did exactly that.Thing was ( and maybe still is ) that a GED carried a certain stigma .
My perception at the time was that it was better to stick it out in high school and get my diploma .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called a GED.I could have tested out and gone to community college.
I knew a few people that did exactly that.Thing was (and maybe still is) that a GED carried a certain stigma.
My perception at the time was that it was better to stick it out in high school and get my diploma.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189840</id>
	<title>Maturity</title>
	<author>Krittick</author>
	<datestamp>1266484440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I skipped my senior year of high school to attend <a href="http://www.clarkson.edu/tcs/" title="clarkson.edu" rel="nofollow">The Clarkson School</a> [clarkson.edu], a program that basically combines year 12 with freshman year in college, and the maturity issue was extremely apparent, in hindsight. Although, interacting with those of an older age was extremely beneficial in providing a "quick start" to collegiate learning and young adult development.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I skipped my senior year of high school to attend The Clarkson School [ clarkson.edu ] , a program that basically combines year 12 with freshman year in college , and the maturity issue was extremely apparent , in hindsight .
Although , interacting with those of an older age was extremely beneficial in providing a " quick start " to collegiate learning and young adult development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I skipped my senior year of high school to attend The Clarkson School [clarkson.edu], a program that basically combines year 12 with freshman year in college, and the maturity issue was extremely apparent, in hindsight.
Although, interacting with those of an older age was extremely beneficial in providing a "quick start" to collegiate learning and young adult development.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189208</id>
	<title>How about wait 2 years to go to College anyway?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not set up some sort of apprentice system for the student who excels, yet is too socially inept or immature for College?  Let them enter the workforce for a couple of years before they move on in school.   I know it sounds crazy, but maybe offer a tax incentive for small businesses to take on these students, or maybe subsidize their wages.  I'm sure there are many ways to encourage the idea.</p><p>IMO the real benefit would be from having the students experience the drudgery of the low level, "real" job and hopefully encourage them to take College that much more seriously once they get there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not set up some sort of apprentice system for the student who excels , yet is too socially inept or immature for College ?
Let them enter the workforce for a couple of years before they move on in school .
I know it sounds crazy , but maybe offer a tax incentive for small businesses to take on these students , or maybe subsidize their wages .
I 'm sure there are many ways to encourage the idea.IMO the real benefit would be from having the students experience the drudgery of the low level , " real " job and hopefully encourage them to take College that much more seriously once they get there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not set up some sort of apprentice system for the student who excels, yet is too socially inept or immature for College?
Let them enter the workforce for a couple of years before they move on in school.
I know it sounds crazy, but maybe offer a tax incentive for small businesses to take on these students, or maybe subsidize their wages.
I'm sure there are many ways to encourage the idea.IMO the real benefit would be from having the students experience the drudgery of the low level, "real" job and hopefully encourage them to take College that much more seriously once they get there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190382</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>ubercam</author>
	<datestamp>1266485880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer: I was a Foreign Language Assistant in a vocational school in Germany.</p><p>This sounds exactly like Germany with their vocational schools and apprenticeship system.</p><p>Want to do a skilled trade? Go to school and learn all about it until age 16, then you're off on an apprenticeship for a year or two. Then you can come back for more school afterwards, or continue working (I think).</p><p>Want to go to university? You have two options AFAIK: be smart enough in the initial weeding out process to go the Gymnasium route (that's their word for what we would generally consider as AP classes in high school, except the school is entirely devoted to AP students), or you can do your apprenticeship and come back to school and do I think 2 years of Fachoberschule (vocational/technical secondary school). With an FOS diploma, you're allowed to go to university, at least in Hessen. I can't comment on other federal states.</p><p>My info might not be 100\% accurate... I only observed it in action and participated from a teacher's perspective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I was a Foreign Language Assistant in a vocational school in Germany.This sounds exactly like Germany with their vocational schools and apprenticeship system.Want to do a skilled trade ?
Go to school and learn all about it until age 16 , then you 're off on an apprenticeship for a year or two .
Then you can come back for more school afterwards , or continue working ( I think ) .Want to go to university ?
You have two options AFAIK : be smart enough in the initial weeding out process to go the Gymnasium route ( that 's their word for what we would generally consider as AP classes in high school , except the school is entirely devoted to AP students ) , or you can do your apprenticeship and come back to school and do I think 2 years of Fachoberschule ( vocational/technical secondary school ) .
With an FOS diploma , you 're allowed to go to university , at least in Hessen .
I ca n't comment on other federal states.My info might not be 100 \ % accurate... I only observed it in action and participated from a teacher 's perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer: I was a Foreign Language Assistant in a vocational school in Germany.This sounds exactly like Germany with their vocational schools and apprenticeship system.Want to do a skilled trade?
Go to school and learn all about it until age 16, then you're off on an apprenticeship for a year or two.
Then you can come back for more school afterwards, or continue working (I think).Want to go to university?
You have two options AFAIK: be smart enough in the initial weeding out process to go the Gymnasium route (that's their word for what we would generally consider as AP classes in high school, except the school is entirely devoted to AP students), or you can do your apprenticeship and come back to school and do I think 2 years of Fachoberschule (vocational/technical secondary school).
With an FOS diploma, you're allowed to go to university, at least in Hessen.
I can't comment on other federal states.My info might not be 100\% accurate... I only observed it in action and participated from a teacher's perspective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189878</id>
	<title>Been there, done that</title>
	<author>medeii</author>
	<datestamp>1266484560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/runningstart/default.aspx" title="k12.wa.us">Running Start</a> [k12.wa.us] </p><p>Similar program in Washington state, has been around for 20 years now. Students can enroll full-time in college and fully skip the last two years of high school if they meet the admissions criteria (though you don't get your diploma until the end of your 12th year.) This gets them an Associates in Arts and Sciences, which is immediately transferable to any Washington 4-year public university, and is guaranteed by law to fulfill their basic education (e.g. non-major) classes at that university. Alternatively, they can go part-time and simply transfer the credits, though not all are guaranteed to correspond to basic ed requirements.</p><p>Incidentally, I did the former, starting at 14. The administrator in TFA who thinks maturity is a problem for anyone who wants to do this program, though, needs to get a clue. While I'm well aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, it was an amazing program that beat the pants off the "high school experience." People at community colleges generally want to be there, and the elevated age levels mean that you're surrounded by people with experience that you can learn from.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Running Start [ k12.wa.us ] Similar program in Washington state , has been around for 20 years now .
Students can enroll full-time in college and fully skip the last two years of high school if they meet the admissions criteria ( though you do n't get your diploma until the end of your 12th year .
) This gets them an Associates in Arts and Sciences , which is immediately transferable to any Washington 4-year public university , and is guaranteed by law to fulfill their basic education ( e.g .
non-major ) classes at that university .
Alternatively , they can go part-time and simply transfer the credits , though not all are guaranteed to correspond to basic ed requirements.Incidentally , I did the former , starting at 14 .
The administrator in TFA who thinks maturity is a problem for anyone who wants to do this program , though , needs to get a clue .
While I 'm well aware that the plural of anecdote is not data , it was an amazing program that beat the pants off the " high school experience .
" People at community colleges generally want to be there , and the elevated age levels mean that you 're surrounded by people with experience that you can learn from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Running Start [k12.wa.us] Similar program in Washington state, has been around for 20 years now.
Students can enroll full-time in college and fully skip the last two years of high school if they meet the admissions criteria (though you don't get your diploma until the end of your 12th year.
) This gets them an Associates in Arts and Sciences, which is immediately transferable to any Washington 4-year public university, and is guaranteed by law to fulfill their basic education (e.g.
non-major) classes at that university.
Alternatively, they can go part-time and simply transfer the credits, though not all are guaranteed to correspond to basic ed requirements.Incidentally, I did the former, starting at 14.
The administrator in TFA who thinks maturity is a problem for anyone who wants to do this program, though, needs to get a clue.
While I'm well aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, it was an amazing program that beat the pants off the "high school experience.
" People at community colleges generally want to be there, and the elevated age levels mean that you're surrounded by people with experience that you can learn from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189542</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266526740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dunno about that...<br> <br>I had 33 college credits under my belt (from AP classes &amp; night classes at the local community college) when I finished my sophomore year of high school.  But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college.  Yes, I could do all the work.  Yes, I could force myself to study when I'd rather be playing.  Because I'd been in classes with older kids for several years, because I had four older siblings, I think I was pretty mature for my age.  But I still wasn't ready.<br> <br>What there should be are more programs like Simon's Rock of Bard College.  A transition program for kids academically ready for college, but not quite there emotionally, psychologically, etc. <br> <br>One note on this proposal that I find abhorrent -- community college is not the place for these kids to take coursework if they leave high school early.  Not that there's anything wrong with community college for a lot of people (I did my time there for money &amp; scheduling reasons)... but the best and brightest should be surrounded by the best and brightest.  Let them be challenged by their peers, not held back.<br> <br>This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in.  Yes, I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader... but I took those classes with the regular college prep kids, not with the honors college prep kids.  This held me back; I learned some bad habits, and I wasn't challenged by the pace of the coursework nor by my peers in the class.  Nor did I get the benefit of the best teachers, who taught HCP classes only.<br> <br>As for your final issue:<blockquote><div><p>I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of "my child shouldn't be discriminated against. (S)he should be able to head to college too at this grade!" They're going to have to be ready for that.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's exactly what happened in my school system.  When I was a senior in high school (I couldn't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ), my AP classes were filled with sophomores who weren't ready for them.  The success of those of us in the trial run led the system to offer early AP classes to all students... they actually made AP classes a requirement for graduation for college prep kids.  This killed the quality of those classes... AP Bio, AP English, AP European History were killed by the fact that 90\% of the kids in the class didn't have the foundation to learn collegiate level material.<br> <br>Anyway, I'm rambling.  But you're absolutely right that the no-child-allowed-to-excel-if-my-child-doesn't-qualify people are going to cause big problems for these states and districts.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dunno about that... I had 33 college credits under my belt ( from AP classes &amp; night classes at the local community college ) when I finished my sophomore year of high school .
But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college .
Yes , I could do all the work .
Yes , I could force myself to study when I 'd rather be playing .
Because I 'd been in classes with older kids for several years , because I had four older siblings , I think I was pretty mature for my age .
But I still was n't ready .
What there should be are more programs like Simon 's Rock of Bard College .
A transition program for kids academically ready for college , but not quite there emotionally , psychologically , etc .
One note on this proposal that I find abhorrent -- community college is not the place for these kids to take coursework if they leave high school early .
Not that there 's anything wrong with community college for a lot of people ( I did my time there for money &amp; scheduling reasons ) ... but the best and brightest should be surrounded by the best and brightest .
Let them be challenged by their peers , not held back .
This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in .
Yes , I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader... but I took those classes with the regular college prep kids , not with the honors college prep kids .
This held me back ; I learned some bad habits , and I was n't challenged by the pace of the coursework nor by my peers in the class .
Nor did I get the benefit of the best teachers , who taught HCP classes only .
As for your final issue : I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of " my child should n't be discriminated against .
( S ) he should be able to head to college too at this grade !
" They 're going to have to be ready for that.That 's exactly what happened in my school system .
When I was a senior in high school ( I could n't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ ) , my AP classes were filled with sophomores who were n't ready for them .
The success of those of us in the trial run led the system to offer early AP classes to all students... they actually made AP classes a requirement for graduation for college prep kids .
This killed the quality of those classes... AP Bio , AP English , AP European History were killed by the fact that 90 \ % of the kids in the class did n't have the foundation to learn collegiate level material .
Anyway , I 'm rambling .
But you 're absolutely right that the no-child-allowed-to-excel-if-my-child-does n't-qualify people are going to cause big problems for these states and districts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dunno about that... I had 33 college credits under my belt (from AP classes &amp; night classes at the local community college) when I finished my sophomore year of high school.
But there was no way I was emotionally ready for college.
Yes, I could do all the work.
Yes, I could force myself to study when I'd rather be playing.
Because I'd been in classes with older kids for several years, because I had four older siblings, I think I was pretty mature for my age.
But I still wasn't ready.
What there should be are more programs like Simon's Rock of Bard College.
A transition program for kids academically ready for college, but not quite there emotionally, psychologically, etc.
One note on this proposal that I find abhorrent -- community college is not the place for these kids to take coursework if they leave high school early.
Not that there's anything wrong with community college for a lot of people (I did my time there for money &amp; scheduling reasons)... but the best and brightest should be surrounded by the best and brightest.
Let them be challenged by their peers, not held back.
This was a fundamental problem with the trial acceleration program I took part in.
Yes, I went to high school for math &amp; science classes as a seventh-grader... but I took those classes with the regular college prep kids, not with the honors college prep kids.
This held me back; I learned some bad habits, and I wasn't challenged by the pace of the coursework nor by my peers in the class.
Nor did I get the benefit of the best teachers, who taught HCP classes only.
As for your final issue:I guarantee that if this gets passed there will be an outcry of "my child shouldn't be discriminated against.
(S)he should be able to head to college too at this grade!
" They're going to have to be ready for that.That's exactly what happened in my school system.
When I was a senior in high school (I couldn't graduate early because of the required 16 quarters of gym class per state law in NJ), my AP classes were filled with sophomores who weren't ready for them.
The success of those of us in the trial run led the system to offer early AP classes to all students... they actually made AP classes a requirement for graduation for college prep kids.
This killed the quality of those classes... AP Bio, AP English, AP European History were killed by the fact that 90\% of the kids in the class didn't have the foundation to learn collegiate level material.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
But you're absolutely right that the no-child-allowed-to-excel-if-my-child-doesn't-qualify people are going to cause big problems for these states and districts.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190934</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266487380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do agree that 16 is too early to go to a University. The maturity level is just not there. In some states in India, high school graduation happens in the 10th Grade. The next two years are spent in a Junior College. These two years form the basis for what you want to specialize in your university. If you are engineering/physics oriented, you would take two years worth of credits in only Math, Physics and Chemistry. If you are interested in becoming a doctor, you would take Biology, Physics and Chemistry. There are other credits that you would take for becoming a lawyer, english major etc.</p><p>The upside is that you are not taking courses that you are not interested in. The downside is that once you make this choice, turning back would mean spending another two years in a Junior College.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do agree that 16 is too early to go to a University .
The maturity level is just not there .
In some states in India , high school graduation happens in the 10th Grade .
The next two years are spent in a Junior College .
These two years form the basis for what you want to specialize in your university .
If you are engineering/physics oriented , you would take two years worth of credits in only Math , Physics and Chemistry .
If you are interested in becoming a doctor , you would take Biology , Physics and Chemistry .
There are other credits that you would take for becoming a lawyer , english major etc.The upside is that you are not taking courses that you are not interested in .
The downside is that once you make this choice , turning back would mean spending another two years in a Junior College .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do agree that 16 is too early to go to a University.
The maturity level is just not there.
In some states in India, high school graduation happens in the 10th Grade.
The next two years are spent in a Junior College.
These two years form the basis for what you want to specialize in your university.
If you are engineering/physics oriented, you would take two years worth of credits in only Math, Physics and Chemistry.
If you are interested in becoming a doctor, you would take Biology, Physics and Chemistry.
There are other credits that you would take for becoming a lawyer, english major etc.The upside is that you are not taking courses that you are not interested in.
The downside is that once you make this choice, turning back would mean spending another two years in a Junior College.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189566</id>
	<title>Re:Why go to community college?</title>
	<author>i.r.id10t</author>
	<datestamp>1266483600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they are still minors, and going "away" to college (or any other place really) isn't something easy to do - leases for an apartment, phone service, etc.</p><p>Community colleges will let them get the basic courses out of the way, like the English, Art, etc. requirements.  They'll end up with an AA degree and can transfer to what you probably consider a "real" school.  As a bonus, they won't be minors when that happens, so moving out of the area of their parents will be much easier at that point.</p><p>In truth, this is really no different than a dual enrollment program, loading up on AP classes, or the IB program.  In fact, here at the CC I work at dual enrollment students graduate with an AA or AS 2 or 3 weeks before they "graduate high school" and get their high school diploma.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they are still minors , and going " away " to college ( or any other place really ) is n't something easy to do - leases for an apartment , phone service , etc.Community colleges will let them get the basic courses out of the way , like the English , Art , etc .
requirements. They 'll end up with an AA degree and can transfer to what you probably consider a " real " school .
As a bonus , they wo n't be minors when that happens , so moving out of the area of their parents will be much easier at that point.In truth , this is really no different than a dual enrollment program , loading up on AP classes , or the IB program .
In fact , here at the CC I work at dual enrollment students graduate with an AA or AS 2 or 3 weeks before they " graduate high school " and get their high school diploma .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they are still minors, and going "away" to college (or any other place really) isn't something easy to do - leases for an apartment, phone service, etc.Community colleges will let them get the basic courses out of the way, like the English, Art, etc.
requirements.  They'll end up with an AA degree and can transfer to what you probably consider a "real" school.
As a bonus, they won't be minors when that happens, so moving out of the area of their parents will be much easier at that point.In truth, this is really no different than a dual enrollment program, loading up on AP classes, or the IB program.
In fact, here at the CC I work at dual enrollment students graduate with an AA or AS 2 or 3 weeks before they "graduate high school" and get their high school diploma.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190618</id>
	<title>So it's better to hold back the brightest?</title>
	<author>Croakus</author>
	<datestamp>1266486420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea and that everyone should be forced to stay until they turn 18 simply because of some imagined "emotional trauma" they might suffer has NO BUSINESS TEACHING CHILDREN!  Some kids are simply smarter than others and some develop much faster.  It would be a crime to hold them back and effectively punish them for being smarter and achieving more.</p><p>The only thing you get by holding back intelligent people is a bunch of extremely intelligent anti-social people who are frustrated and don't give a shit.  I know first hand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea and that everyone should be forced to stay until they turn 18 simply because of some imagined " emotional trauma " they might suffer has NO BUSINESS TEACHING CHILDREN !
Some kids are simply smarter than others and some develop much faster .
It would be a crime to hold them back and effectively punish them for being smarter and achieving more.The only thing you get by holding back intelligent people is a bunch of extremely intelligent anti-social people who are frustrated and do n't give a shit .
I know first hand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea and that everyone should be forced to stay until they turn 18 simply because of some imagined "emotional trauma" they might suffer has NO BUSINESS TEACHING CHILDREN!
Some kids are simply smarter than others and some develop much faster.
It would be a crime to hold them back and effectively punish them for being smarter and achieving more.The only thing you get by holding back intelligent people is a bunch of extremely intelligent anti-social people who are frustrated and don't give a shit.
I know first hand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31194916</id>
	<title>My School</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266507780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a secondary school teacher, and we already do this.  Students in their junior and senior year are eligible to take classes at our local community colleges.</p><p>Here's something that hasn't really been brought up, though.  The quality of these classes varies WILDLY.  I've had students retake electives with me, just to get a handle on it before they move on to more advanced classes at a four year university.</p><p>I think that the key thing here is introducing some flexibility into what was previously an extremely rigid system.  If you're ready as a student, why the hell should anyone hold you back?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a secondary school teacher , and we already do this .
Students in their junior and senior year are eligible to take classes at our local community colleges.Here 's something that has n't really been brought up , though .
The quality of these classes varies WILDLY .
I 've had students retake electives with me , just to get a handle on it before they move on to more advanced classes at a four year university.I think that the key thing here is introducing some flexibility into what was previously an extremely rigid system .
If you 're ready as a student , why the hell should anyone hold you back ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a secondary school teacher, and we already do this.
Students in their junior and senior year are eligible to take classes at our local community colleges.Here's something that hasn't really been brought up, though.
The quality of these classes varies WILDLY.
I've had students retake electives with me, just to get a handle on it before they move on to more advanced classes at a four year university.I think that the key thing here is introducing some flexibility into what was previously an extremely rigid system.
If you're ready as a student, why the hell should anyone hold you back?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190500</id>
	<title>freshman year in lieu of senior year</title>
	<author>Pretzalzz</author>
	<datestamp>1266486120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure why people think this is so novel.  Even 15-20 years ago it was well known that you could go to college after 11th grade and would recieve your high school diploma upon completing Freshman year of college.  And this was Pennsylvania.  I mean what's the state going to do if a college accepts you?  Say your parents can home school you, but you can't go to college?  Yeh, that makes sense.  For a number of states compulsory schooling stops at age 16 or 17, ie roughly after 10th or 11th.  Pennsylvania is 17.</p><p>And yet most people don't take advantage of this for a number of reasons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure why people think this is so novel .
Even 15-20 years ago it was well known that you could go to college after 11th grade and would recieve your high school diploma upon completing Freshman year of college .
And this was Pennsylvania .
I mean what 's the state going to do if a college accepts you ?
Say your parents can home school you , but you ca n't go to college ?
Yeh , that makes sense .
For a number of states compulsory schooling stops at age 16 or 17 , ie roughly after 10th or 11th .
Pennsylvania is 17.And yet most people do n't take advantage of this for a number of reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure why people think this is so novel.
Even 15-20 years ago it was well known that you could go to college after 11th grade and would recieve your high school diploma upon completing Freshman year of college.
And this was Pennsylvania.
I mean what's the state going to do if a college accepts you?
Say your parents can home school you, but you can't go to college?
Yeh, that makes sense.
For a number of states compulsory schooling stops at age 16 or 17, ie roughly after 10th or 11th.
Pennsylvania is 17.And yet most people don't take advantage of this for a number of reasons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191832</id>
	<title>Re:What's the hurry?</title>
	<author>Arthur Grumbine</author>
	<datestamp>1266490680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Frankly, I want my children to grow into rounded, self confident individuals...</p></div><p>And it's a well-known fact that the junior and senior years of high school are particularly well-suited for this... right? And community college is particularly unsuited for this, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Frankly , I want my children to grow into rounded , self confident individuals...And it 's a well-known fact that the junior and senior years of high school are particularly well-suited for this... right ? And community college is particularly unsuited for this , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Frankly, I want my children to grow into rounded, self confident individuals...And it's a well-known fact that the junior and senior years of high school are particularly well-suited for this... right? And community college is particularly unsuited for this, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31190786</id>
	<title>Why Can't You Be Both?</title>
	<author>zawarski</author>
	<datestamp>1266486840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why do so many people consider academically advanced and socially advanced to be mutually exclusive? You can be smarter that your peers in spelling but not more mature also? I've met kids who act alot more like adults that some adults do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do so many people consider academically advanced and socially advanced to be mutually exclusive ?
You can be smarter that your peers in spelling but not more mature also ?
I 've met kids who act alot more like adults that some adults do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do so many people consider academically advanced and socially advanced to be mutually exclusive?
You can be smarter that your peers in spelling but not more mature also?
I've met kids who act alot more like adults that some adults do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31192040</id>
	<title>MN calls it Post Secondary Enrollment Options</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1266491520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was starting my junior year of high school I was taking the last science (and math) classes that were available at my school.  I did that partially by doubling up on some classwork that year, but nonetheless I had nothing left for my senior year.  Then I heard about the Post Secondary Enrollment Option (PSEO) progam.  It allowed me to start at the University full-time during my senior year, and the state picked up the tab.  I was only required to pay my own transportation and supplies costs; they even bought my books.<br> <br>
From my point of view the MN program was actually better than what is proposed in this article, because the tuition was paid by the state.  The credits I earned that year counted both towards my high school diploma and my BS.  Graduating early would have been an option for me as well, although had I done that instead I would have had to pay for those credits I took under PSEO.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was starting my junior year of high school I was taking the last science ( and math ) classes that were available at my school .
I did that partially by doubling up on some classwork that year , but nonetheless I had nothing left for my senior year .
Then I heard about the Post Secondary Enrollment Option ( PSEO ) progam .
It allowed me to start at the University full-time during my senior year , and the state picked up the tab .
I was only required to pay my own transportation and supplies costs ; they even bought my books .
From my point of view the MN program was actually better than what is proposed in this article , because the tuition was paid by the state .
The credits I earned that year counted both towards my high school diploma and my BS .
Graduating early would have been an option for me as well , although had I done that instead I would have had to pay for those credits I took under PSEO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was starting my junior year of high school I was taking the last science (and math) classes that were available at my school.
I did that partially by doubling up on some classwork that year, but nonetheless I had nothing left for my senior year.
Then I heard about the Post Secondary Enrollment Option (PSEO) progam.
It allowed me to start at the University full-time during my senior year, and the state picked up the tab.
I was only required to pay my own transportation and supplies costs; they even bought my books.
From my point of view the MN program was actually better than what is proposed in this article, because the tuition was paid by the state.
The credits I earned that year counted both towards my high school diploma and my BS.
Graduating early would have been an option for me as well, although had I done that instead I would have had to pay for those credits I took under PSEO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31193818</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266500760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>where the fuck are you at school.<br>I am in Mississippi and every school here is on ten point scale with grade= 90</p><p>the high schools are even harsher. they had grade =95.</p><p>please don't tell me northerner or Cali students are getting lower grades then those in the deep south!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>where the fuck are you at school.I am in Mississippi and every school here is on ten point scale with grade = 90the high schools are even harsher .
they had grade = 95.please do n't tell me northerner or Cali students are getting lower grades then those in the deep south !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>where the fuck are you at school.I am in Mississippi and every school here is on ten point scale with grade= 90the high schools are even harsher.
they had grade =95.please don't tell me northerner or Cali students are getting lower grades then those in the deep south!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31191580</id>
	<title>Re:Ill placed worries</title>
	<author>31415926535897</author>
	<datestamp>1266489660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many high schools already have policies that will let students graduate in 3 years.  If there was such a push to get students graduated and in college early, why don't more parents and students take advantage of this?</p><p>When I was in high school, you needed 21 credits to graduate.  You could earn up to 7 credits per year (one for each class) by not taking any study halls.  It didn't take a genius to recognize that you could be out of there in 3 years if you wanted. I know of one person who took advantage of that because she had such a miserable time (socially) in school.  But most of us enjoyed our full 4 years because pretty much everyone realizes that high school isn't all about (or even very much about?) the academics.</p><p>Oh, and I lived in an area that was full of "rich assholes" -- Wheaton, IL (check out the average wealth of families in this town and in the surrounding DuPage County).  But again, no push to get the kids graduated early.</p><p>One more thing...the car wrecks have very little to do with age. It all has to do with driving experience.  In areas where the driving age was moved to 18 (politicians did this because of exactly what you mentioned), the 18 and 19 year old drivers were just as bad as 16-17 year olds in other places.  I think that teenagers today are socially immature because we keep them that way and don't give them an opportunity to live and grow.  2,000 years ago you were on your own when you turned 12, and those people found a way to survive, and I'll bet the maturity of an 18 year old back then would far surpass the average maturity of today's 30 year old--because they had to learn how to live and survive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many high schools already have policies that will let students graduate in 3 years .
If there was such a push to get students graduated and in college early , why do n't more parents and students take advantage of this ? When I was in high school , you needed 21 credits to graduate .
You could earn up to 7 credits per year ( one for each class ) by not taking any study halls .
It did n't take a genius to recognize that you could be out of there in 3 years if you wanted .
I know of one person who took advantage of that because she had such a miserable time ( socially ) in school .
But most of us enjoyed our full 4 years because pretty much everyone realizes that high school is n't all about ( or even very much about ?
) the academics.Oh , and I lived in an area that was full of " rich assholes " -- Wheaton , IL ( check out the average wealth of families in this town and in the surrounding DuPage County ) .
But again , no push to get the kids graduated early.One more thing...the car wrecks have very little to do with age .
It all has to do with driving experience .
In areas where the driving age was moved to 18 ( politicians did this because of exactly what you mentioned ) , the 18 and 19 year old drivers were just as bad as 16-17 year olds in other places .
I think that teenagers today are socially immature because we keep them that way and do n't give them an opportunity to live and grow .
2,000 years ago you were on your own when you turned 12 , and those people found a way to survive , and I 'll bet the maturity of an 18 year old back then would far surpass the average maturity of today 's 30 year old--because they had to learn how to live and survive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many high schools already have policies that will let students graduate in 3 years.
If there was such a push to get students graduated and in college early, why don't more parents and students take advantage of this?When I was in high school, you needed 21 credits to graduate.
You could earn up to 7 credits per year (one for each class) by not taking any study halls.
It didn't take a genius to recognize that you could be out of there in 3 years if you wanted.
I know of one person who took advantage of that because she had such a miserable time (socially) in school.
But most of us enjoyed our full 4 years because pretty much everyone realizes that high school isn't all about (or even very much about?
) the academics.Oh, and I lived in an area that was full of "rich assholes" -- Wheaton, IL (check out the average wealth of families in this town and in the surrounding DuPage County).
But again, no push to get the kids graduated early.One more thing...the car wrecks have very little to do with age.
It all has to do with driving experience.
In areas where the driving age was moved to 18 (politicians did this because of exactly what you mentioned), the 18 and 19 year old drivers were just as bad as 16-17 year olds in other places.
I think that teenagers today are socially immature because we keep them that way and don't give them an opportunity to live and grow.
2,000 years ago you were on your own when you turned 12, and those people found a way to survive, and I'll bet the maturity of an 18 year old back then would far surpass the average maturity of today's 30 year old--because they had to learn how to live and survive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_18_190236.31189414</id>
	<title>I did this in California</title>
	<author>Dice</author>
	<datestamp>1266526440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In California we have the <a href="http://www.chspe.net/" title="chspe.net">CHSPE</a> [chspe.net], which is a High School proficiency exam you can take once you're 16.  I took it and left HS two years early, went on to a community college then a 4 year and got my degree.  For me it was a great option since I was essentially just twiddling my thumbs in HS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In California we have the CHSPE [ chspe.net ] , which is a High School proficiency exam you can take once you 're 16 .
I took it and left HS two years early , went on to a community college then a 4 year and got my degree .
For me it was a great option since I was essentially just twiddling my thumbs in HS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In California we have the CHSPE [chspe.net], which is a High School proficiency exam you can take once you're 16.
I took it and left HS two years early, went on to a community college then a 4 year and got my degree.
For me it was a great option since I was essentially just twiddling my thumbs in HS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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