<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_16_2130243</id>
	<title>Google, Apple Call Workers' Race &amp; Gender Trade Secrets</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1266337440000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"The Mercury News reports that Google, whose stated mission is to make the world's information universally accessible, <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/ci\_14382477?source=most\_emailed">says the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret</a> that cannot be released. So do <a href="http://gawker.com/5472440/steve-jobs-tries-to-cover-up-apples-racial-profile">Apple, Yahoo, Oracle, and Applied Materials</a>. The five companies waged a successful 18-month FOIA battle with the Merc, convincing federal regulators who collect the data that its release would cause 'commercial harm' by potentially revealing the companies' business strategy to competitors. Law professor John Sims called the objections &mdash; the details of which the Dept. of Labor declined to share &mdash; 'absurd.' Many industry peers see the issue differently &mdash; Intel, Cisco, eBay, AMD, Sanmina, and Sun agreed to allow the DOL to provide the requested info. 'There's nothing to hide, in our view,' said a spokesman for Intel. <a href="http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/tech/Google-Dont-Be-Hypocritical-84405122.html">Some observers note</a> it's not the first time Google has declined to put a number on its <a href="http://www.google.com/corporate/diversity/">vaunted diversity</a> &mdash; in earlier Congressional testimony, Google's top HR exec <a href="http://valleywag.gawker.com/372514/white-google-executive-fibs-to-congress-about-black-employee-count">dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " The Mercury News reports that Google , whose stated mission is to make the world 's information universally accessible , says the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that can not be released .
So do Apple , Yahoo , Oracle , and Applied Materials .
The five companies waged a successful 18-month FOIA battle with the Merc , convincing federal regulators who collect the data that its release would cause 'commercial harm ' by potentially revealing the companies ' business strategy to competitors .
Law professor John Sims called the objections    the details of which the Dept .
of Labor declined to share    'absurd .
' Many industry peers see the issue differently    Intel , Cisco , eBay , AMD , Sanmina , and Sun agreed to allow the DOL to provide the requested info .
'There 's nothing to hide , in our view, ' said a spokesman for Intel .
Some observers note it 's not the first time Google has declined to put a number on its vaunted diversity    in earlier Congressional testimony , Google 's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "The Mercury News reports that Google, whose stated mission is to make the world's information universally accessible, says the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that cannot be released.
So do Apple, Yahoo, Oracle, and Applied Materials.
The five companies waged a successful 18-month FOIA battle with the Merc, convincing federal regulators who collect the data that its release would cause 'commercial harm' by potentially revealing the companies' business strategy to competitors.
Law professor John Sims called the objections — the details of which the Dept.
of Labor declined to share — 'absurd.
' Many industry peers see the issue differently — Intel, Cisco, eBay, AMD, Sanmina, and Sun agreed to allow the DOL to provide the requested info.
'There's nothing to hide, in our view,' said a spokesman for Intel.
Some observers note it's not the first time Google has declined to put a number on its vaunted diversity — in earlier Congressional testimony, Google's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165066</id>
	<title>Merc: SV Blacks, Latinos and Women Lose Ground</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci\_14383730" title="mercurynews.com">Mercury News:</a> [mercurynews.com] Blacks, Latinos and women lose ground at Silicon Valley tech companies</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mercury News : [ mercurynews.com ] Blacks , Latinos and women lose ground at Silicon Valley tech companies</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mercury News: [mercurynews.com] Blacks, Latinos and women lose ground at Silicon Valley tech companies</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167326</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265027400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam. He just cares whether you get him out.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Do you have a real life example where a woman has failed a physical exam but still been employed even though she can't actually do the job?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house does n't care that because you 're female , you ca n't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam .
He just cares whether you get him out .
Do you have a real life example where a woman has failed a physical exam but still been employed even though she ca n't actually do the job ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.
He just cares whether you get him out.
Do you have a real life example where a woman has failed a physical exam but still been employed even though she can't actually do the job?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165882</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266349380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same goes for Apple, except I've got it straight through the grapevine. My friend's interview was precisely 0\% about technical things and 100\% about whether he was interesting to hang around.</p><p>They know based on the school he's going to and his GPA that he can learn things. That's all that matters on that front.<br>What his future boss said was that they don't hire Indians and Chinese because they're culturally....socially....different. They just don't fit with the environment at Apple. Difficult to work with, particularly the Indians, he said. What's more, difficult to have a normal conversation with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same goes for Apple , except I 've got it straight through the grapevine .
My friend 's interview was precisely 0 \ % about technical things and 100 \ % about whether he was interesting to hang around.They know based on the school he 's going to and his GPA that he can learn things .
That 's all that matters on that front.What his future boss said was that they do n't hire Indians and Chinese because they 're culturally....socially....different .
They just do n't fit with the environment at Apple .
Difficult to work with , particularly the Indians , he said .
What 's more , difficult to have a normal conversation with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same goes for Apple, except I've got it straight through the grapevine.
My friend's interview was precisely 0\% about technical things and 100\% about whether he was interesting to hang around.They know based on the school he's going to and his GPA that he can learn things.
That's all that matters on that front.What his future boss said was that they don't hire Indians and Chinese because they're culturally....socially....different.
They just don't fit with the environment at Apple.
Difficult to work with, particularly the Indians, he said.
What's more, difficult to have a normal conversation with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165724</id>
	<title>Apparently "Evil" means "Non-White"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kinda screws years of PR and spin when "Don't Be Evil" turns out to mean "Don't Be Non-White."
<br> <br>
<i>"But lots of us here like Will Smith and Beyonc&#233;...Eric even has an Obama bumper sticker!...dawg?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kinda screws years of PR and spin when " Do n't Be Evil " turns out to mean " Do n't Be Non-White .
" " But lots of us here like Will Smith and Beyonc   ...Eric even has an Obama bumper sticker ! ...dawg ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kinda screws years of PR and spin when "Don't Be Evil" turns out to mean "Don't Be Non-White.
"
 
"But lots of us here like Will Smith and Beyoncé...Eric even has an Obama bumper sticker!...dawg?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165632</id>
	<title>here is why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that is because they have no african-americans and  very few caucasians.  there are allot of women so i dont think they are worried about that</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that is because they have no african-americans and very few caucasians .
there are allot of women so i dont think they are worried about that</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that is because they have no african-americans and  very few caucasians.
there are allot of women so i dont think they are worried about that</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165982</id>
	<title>Re:Equal Employment Policy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265054640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm glad that this is the policy being used at the German Sausage company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm glad that this is the policy being used at the German Sausage company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm glad that this is the policy being used at the German Sausage company.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164936</id>
	<title>Database: SV Company Workforce Diversity</title>
	<author>theodp</author>
	<datestamp>1266342420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci\_14391854" title="mercurynews.com">Mercury News:</a> [mercurynews.com] This database includes that Labor Department data for Santa Clara and San Mateo County-based workers at Hewlett-Packard, Sun Microsystems, Advanced Micro Devices, Cisco Systems, SYNNEX Corp., Calpine Corp., Intel, eBay, Sanmina Corp., and Solectron Corp. The database covers the years 1999, 2000, 2003 and 2005.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mercury News : [ mercurynews.com ] This database includes that Labor Department data for Santa Clara and San Mateo County-based workers at Hewlett-Packard , Sun Microsystems , Advanced Micro Devices , Cisco Systems , SYNNEX Corp. , Calpine Corp. , Intel , eBay , Sanmina Corp. , and Solectron Corp. The database covers the years 1999 , 2000 , 2003 and 2005 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mercury News: [mercurynews.com] This database includes that Labor Department data for Santa Clara and San Mateo County-based workers at Hewlett-Packard, Sun Microsystems, Advanced Micro Devices, Cisco Systems, SYNNEX Corp., Calpine Corp., Intel, eBay, Sanmina Corp., and Solectron Corp. The database covers the years 1999, 2000, 2003 and 2005.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166356</id>
	<title>Diversity != Race</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265016420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My father-in-law hires for a large oil company.  The company in question tries to be as diverse as possible, but understands that race doesn't make it diverse.  They believe that different personality types are what make the company diverse instead.</p><p>Specifically, the Myers-Briggs scale has been used to measure diversity with much more accuracy than what color/nationality a person is.  According to my father-in-law, this company has had much greater success in the workplace by having a mixture of people on this scale than by having quotas of blacks/whites/hispanics/etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My father-in-law hires for a large oil company .
The company in question tries to be as diverse as possible , but understands that race does n't make it diverse .
They believe that different personality types are what make the company diverse instead.Specifically , the Myers-Briggs scale has been used to measure diversity with much more accuracy than what color/nationality a person is .
According to my father-in-law , this company has had much greater success in the workplace by having a mixture of people on this scale than by having quotas of blacks/whites/hispanics/etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My father-in-law hires for a large oil company.
The company in question tries to be as diverse as possible, but understands that race doesn't make it diverse.
They believe that different personality types are what make the company diverse instead.Specifically, the Myers-Briggs scale has been used to measure diversity with much more accuracy than what color/nationality a person is.
According to my father-in-law, this company has had much greater success in the workplace by having a mixture of people on this scale than by having quotas of blacks/whites/hispanics/etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166630</id>
	<title>That's why I'm pro socialism</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1265019600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.</p></div><p>Well said.  I think this is true too.</p><p>That's why I'm happy that here in Soviet Denmark, the government (i.e. the taxpayer base) provide an education to everyone who's able*, for free, and even gives the students money to live off of while studying.</p><p>(*) Allocation of students to studies is based on student preferences, their high school grades, and whether they have taken certain subjects at a high enough level in high school (e.g. comp. sci. requires higher level math; medicine might require higher level math and chemistry, etc.)</p><p>I come from a family that's poor in material wealth.  Despite that, I'm able to make the most of my programming talent and provide more value to society (based on my guesstimated future wages) than if hadn't been able to afford an education.</p><p>(Oh yeah, the couple of times I went to the hospital, I got a really great treatment and it didn't bankrupt my family.  How I love the people who gave up a part of their material wealth for the common good.  I hope I can repay that debt to their children and grandchildren.)</p><p>You should try some of that over there in the states.  Think of the higher taxes you'll be paying as an investment in the health and skill of the future labour force; the one who'll be working for your children and your grandchildren.  And feel free to think of yourself as a person who is willing to help his fellow countrymen when they're down on their luck.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas , are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus , even though they may be competitively intelligent , are n't able to make the most of it.Well said .
I think this is true too.That 's why I 'm happy that here in Soviet Denmark , the government ( i.e .
the taxpayer base ) provide an education to everyone who 's able * , for free , and even gives the students money to live off of while studying .
( * ) Allocation of students to studies is based on student preferences , their high school grades , and whether they have taken certain subjects at a high enough level in high school ( e.g .
comp. sci .
requires higher level math ; medicine might require higher level math and chemistry , etc .
) I come from a family that 's poor in material wealth .
Despite that , I 'm able to make the most of my programming talent and provide more value to society ( based on my guesstimated future wages ) than if had n't been able to afford an education .
( Oh yeah , the couple of times I went to the hospital , I got a really great treatment and it did n't bankrupt my family .
How I love the people who gave up a part of their material wealth for the common good .
I hope I can repay that debt to their children and grandchildren .
) You should try some of that over there in the states .
Think of the higher taxes you 'll be paying as an investment in the health and skill of the future labour force ; the one who 'll be working for your children and your grandchildren .
And feel free to think of yourself as a person who is willing to help his fellow countrymen when they 're down on their luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.Well said.
I think this is true too.That's why I'm happy that here in Soviet Denmark, the government (i.e.
the taxpayer base) provide an education to everyone who's able*, for free, and even gives the students money to live off of while studying.
(*) Allocation of students to studies is based on student preferences, their high school grades, and whether they have taken certain subjects at a high enough level in high school (e.g.
comp. sci.
requires higher level math; medicine might require higher level math and chemistry, etc.
)I come from a family that's poor in material wealth.
Despite that, I'm able to make the most of my programming talent and provide more value to society (based on my guesstimated future wages) than if hadn't been able to afford an education.
(Oh yeah, the couple of times I went to the hospital, I got a really great treatment and it didn't bankrupt my family.
How I love the people who gave up a part of their material wealth for the common good.
I hope I can repay that debt to their children and grandchildren.
)You should try some of that over there in the states.
Think of the higher taxes you'll be paying as an investment in the health and skill of the future labour force; the one who'll be working for your children and your grandchildren.
And feel free to think of yourself as a person who is willing to help his fellow countrymen when they're down on their luck.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164980</id>
	<title>Re:Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1266342840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[quote]A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies[/quote]</p><p>I don't think that's true, it looks to me that the lawsuit is against the regulators, not the private companies themselves.  The FOIA doesn't apply against companies directly.</p><p>Besides, because Google claims it is diverse on their own site, the only damage would come is if they're lying about it and the slide shows are just tokenism, all the photos appear to be of the same group of 20 or so people.  Of which I would shed croc tears if it's an exposed lie.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ quote ] A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies [ /quote ] I do n't think that 's true , it looks to me that the lawsuit is against the regulators , not the private companies themselves .
The FOIA does n't apply against companies directly.Besides , because Google claims it is diverse on their own site , the only damage would come is if they 're lying about it and the slide shows are just tokenism , all the photos appear to be of the same group of 20 or so people .
Of which I would shed croc tears if it 's an exposed lie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[quote]A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies[/quote]I don't think that's true, it looks to me that the lawsuit is against the regulators, not the private companies themselves.
The FOIA doesn't apply against companies directly.Besides, because Google claims it is diverse on their own site, the only damage would come is if they're lying about it and the slide shows are just tokenism, all the photos appear to be of the same group of 20 or so people.
Of which I would shed croc tears if it's an exposed lie.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166024</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1265055060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine?</i>
</p><p>Ask's parent, IAC, <a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2008/04/iac-rolls-out-b/" title="wired.com">tried that</a> [wired.com]. It was called <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20080822005954/http://www.rushmoredrive.com/" title="archive.org">"RushmoreDrive.com".</a> [archive.org] The search results returned were Ask results interspersed with marginally relevant black-related results. The home page took at least 7 seconds to load, every time, being heavily loaded with both ads and video.  The business lasted less than a year.
</p><p>
Interesting concept, but like most IAC online businesses, badly executed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine ?
Ask 's parent , IAC , tried that [ wired.com ] .
It was called " RushmoreDrive.com " .
[ archive.org ] The search results returned were Ask results interspersed with marginally relevant black-related results .
The home page took at least 7 seconds to load , every time , being heavily loaded with both ads and video .
The business lasted less than a year .
Interesting concept , but like most IAC online businesses , badly executed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine?
Ask's parent, IAC, tried that [wired.com].
It was called "RushmoreDrive.com".
[archive.org] The search results returned were Ask results interspersed with marginally relevant black-related results.
The home page took at least 7 seconds to load, every time, being heavily loaded with both ads and video.
The business lasted less than a year.
Interesting concept, but like most IAC online businesses, badly executed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164990</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's the H1Bs.</p></div><p>
I don't think that's what's going on, because the government already makes H1B statistics available.  They can't be hiding something that's already out there in plain sight.  If you want to know how many H1B's have been granted to your least favorite employer, you can look it up!  True, the statistics are a couple years behind the current year, but the statistics are THERE.
</p><p>
Take a look at Microsoft's for example, and take a look at the salaries offered (for those of you who know MS salary levels).  And then factor in a good portion of Wipro and other Indian contracting firms requesting H1B's for positions in Redmond, as also likely working at MS.  Given how desperate MS is for staff that they'd be importing that many workers, it doesn't make sense that there'd be more than 1-2\% tech unemployment in this area, but there is.  Still, I don't think that's what Google and Apple don't want others finding out.
</p><p>
Google/Apple/others MIGHT think (for example) that they're carefully crafting their image to every country they serve, and that a country hearing google only has 7 people on staff from that particular country might feel a bit put out and find reason to, maybe, make a search deal with a competitor who offers more employment to its countrymen.  This would be the kind of logic that would lead someone to claim that divulging that information would be too much of a window into strategy.
</p><p>
Gender, I can't explain as easily.  But one look around the annual Microsoft "MVP Conference" occurring in downtown Bellevue, WA this week (near MS) tells me that if they're primarily male, they're not the only ones.  So I'm not sure why it'd be an issue, except that it could be as simple as preventing someone from being successful with the argument that, "If you divulged your gender mix, why won't you divulge your racial mix?".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the H1Bs .
I do n't think that 's what 's going on , because the government already makes H1B statistics available .
They ca n't be hiding something that 's already out there in plain sight .
If you want to know how many H1B 's have been granted to your least favorite employer , you can look it up !
True , the statistics are a couple years behind the current year , but the statistics are THERE .
Take a look at Microsoft 's for example , and take a look at the salaries offered ( for those of you who know MS salary levels ) .
And then factor in a good portion of Wipro and other Indian contracting firms requesting H1B 's for positions in Redmond , as also likely working at MS. Given how desperate MS is for staff that they 'd be importing that many workers , it does n't make sense that there 'd be more than 1-2 \ % tech unemployment in this area , but there is .
Still , I do n't think that 's what Google and Apple do n't want others finding out .
Google/Apple/others MIGHT think ( for example ) that they 're carefully crafting their image to every country they serve , and that a country hearing google only has 7 people on staff from that particular country might feel a bit put out and find reason to , maybe , make a search deal with a competitor who offers more employment to its countrymen .
This would be the kind of logic that would lead someone to claim that divulging that information would be too much of a window into strategy .
Gender , I ca n't explain as easily .
But one look around the annual Microsoft " MVP Conference " occurring in downtown Bellevue , WA this week ( near MS ) tells me that if they 're primarily male , they 're not the only ones .
So I 'm not sure why it 'd be an issue , except that it could be as simple as preventing someone from being successful with the argument that , " If you divulged your gender mix , why wo n't you divulge your racial mix ?
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the H1Bs.
I don't think that's what's going on, because the government already makes H1B statistics available.
They can't be hiding something that's already out there in plain sight.
If you want to know how many H1B's have been granted to your least favorite employer, you can look it up!
True, the statistics are a couple years behind the current year, but the statistics are THERE.
Take a look at Microsoft's for example, and take a look at the salaries offered (for those of you who know MS salary levels).
And then factor in a good portion of Wipro and other Indian contracting firms requesting H1B's for positions in Redmond, as also likely working at MS.  Given how desperate MS is for staff that they'd be importing that many workers, it doesn't make sense that there'd be more than 1-2\% tech unemployment in this area, but there is.
Still, I don't think that's what Google and Apple don't want others finding out.
Google/Apple/others MIGHT think (for example) that they're carefully crafting their image to every country they serve, and that a country hearing google only has 7 people on staff from that particular country might feel a bit put out and find reason to, maybe, make a search deal with a competitor who offers more employment to its countrymen.
This would be the kind of logic that would lead someone to claim that divulging that information would be too much of a window into strategy.
Gender, I can't explain as easily.
But one look around the annual Microsoft "MVP Conference" occurring in downtown Bellevue, WA this week (near MS) tells me that if they're primarily male, they're not the only ones.
So I'm not sure why it'd be an issue, except that it could be as simple as preventing someone from being successful with the argument that, "If you divulged your gender mix, why won't you divulge your racial mix?
".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>LordLucless</author>
	<datestamp>1266348300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas , are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus , even though they may be competitively intelligent , are n't able to make the most of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166508</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>serviscope\_minor</author>
	<datestamp>1265018220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam. He just cares whether you get him out.</i></p><p>And this highlights the precise problem. You use your "common sense" and come to the unjustiied assumption that women will naturally be worse at the job. Read some of the other replies for an education.</p><p>And moving on to academia, affermative action (geneder based) works. In the USA affermative action is a rather powerful force, in Europe, it is not. In the USA, averaged over a large number of scientific jobs, women require on average the same qualifications as men to get the jobs (publication rate, etc). In Europe, there is a statistically sifnificant difference: women have to be more highly qualified on average to get employed in the same level of job.</p><p>So whether or not you like it, or it stands up to your common sense, there is a significant amount of bias in the system against certain groups of people. This is true bias in that is is present even when two otherwise equal candidates apply for the same job. Affermative action stamps out this bias.</p><p>The science shows it, and science beats "common sense" every single time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house does n't care that because you 're female , you ca n't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam .
He just cares whether you get him out.And this highlights the precise problem .
You use your " common sense " and come to the unjustiied assumption that women will naturally be worse at the job .
Read some of the other replies for an education.And moving on to academia , affermative action ( geneder based ) works .
In the USA affermative action is a rather powerful force , in Europe , it is not .
In the USA , averaged over a large number of scientific jobs , women require on average the same qualifications as men to get the jobs ( publication rate , etc ) .
In Europe , there is a statistically sifnificant difference : women have to be more highly qualified on average to get employed in the same level of job.So whether or not you like it , or it stands up to your common sense , there is a significant amount of bias in the system against certain groups of people .
This is true bias in that is is present even when two otherwise equal candidates apply for the same job .
Affermative action stamps out this bias.The science shows it , and science beats " common sense " every single time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.
He just cares whether you get him out.And this highlights the precise problem.
You use your "common sense" and come to the unjustiied assumption that women will naturally be worse at the job.
Read some of the other replies for an education.And moving on to academia, affermative action (geneder based) works.
In the USA affermative action is a rather powerful force, in Europe, it is not.
In the USA, averaged over a large number of scientific jobs, women require on average the same qualifications as men to get the jobs (publication rate, etc).
In Europe, there is a statistically sifnificant difference: women have to be more highly qualified on average to get employed in the same level of job.So whether or not you like it, or it stands up to your common sense, there is a significant amount of bias in the system against certain groups of people.
This is true bias in that is is present even when two otherwise equal candidates apply for the same job.
Affermative action stamps out this bias.The science shows it, and science beats "common sense" every single time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165494</id>
	<title>*** Mercury News Demographics? ***</title>
	<author>tlambert</author>
	<datestamp>1266346080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*** Mercury News Demographics? ***</p><p>Personally, I'd be very interested in knowing the demographics of the employees of the San Jose Mercury news itself.  They are a Silicon Valley company as much as Oracle, Google, or any of their targets in this article.  Apparently, they've been laying off staff lately, and it would be informative to know whether this was being done in an egalitarian way, or if their own initial and final demographics had something of a slant to them.</p><p>-- Terry</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* * * Mercury News Demographics ?
* * * Personally , I 'd be very interested in knowing the demographics of the employees of the San Jose Mercury news itself .
They are a Silicon Valley company as much as Oracle , Google , or any of their targets in this article .
Apparently , they 've been laying off staff lately , and it would be informative to know whether this was being done in an egalitarian way , or if their own initial and final demographics had something of a slant to them.-- Terry</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*** Mercury News Demographics?
***Personally, I'd be very interested in knowing the demographics of the employees of the San Jose Mercury news itself.
They are a Silicon Valley company as much as Oracle, Google, or any of their targets in this article.
Apparently, they've been laying off staff lately, and it would be informative to know whether this was being done in an egalitarian way, or if their own initial and final demographics had something of a slant to them.-- Terry</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</id>
	<title>Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1266341880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, let me get this straight.  A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data.  The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data.  On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?</p><p>

Oh, and if anyone says, "Journalists are a sort of magical, pure source of good in our society, white knights protecting the people," that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , let me get this straight .
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies , trying to force them to disclose private data .
The media company is doing this purely out of malice , as there is no good that can come from release of this data .
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable ?
Oh , and if anyone says , " Journalists are a sort of magical , pure source of good in our society , white knights protecting the people , " that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, let me get this straight.
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data.
The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data.
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?
Oh, and if anyone says, "Journalists are a sort of magical, pure source of good in our society, white knights protecting the people," that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164774</id>
	<title>Dr. King would be disgusted...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266341460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...to see so many focused on the color of skin, rather than the content of character.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...to see so many focused on the color of skin , rather than the content of character .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...to see so many focused on the color of skin, rather than the content of character.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165206</id>
	<title>Re:we MUST hide (and protect) our african american</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1266344220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But how would a company know the race of the people working for them? I would certainly refuse to answer a question about my race. It should have nothing to do with my work. What if a light skinned person identified themselves as African American? Should an instrument be used to measure their albedo? Why should anybody care? I don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But how would a company know the race of the people working for them ?
I would certainly refuse to answer a question about my race .
It should have nothing to do with my work .
What if a light skinned person identified themselves as African American ?
Should an instrument be used to measure their albedo ?
Why should anybody care ?
I do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But how would a company know the race of the people working for them?
I would certainly refuse to answer a question about my race.
It should have nothing to do with my work.
What if a light skinned person identified themselves as African American?
Should an instrument be used to measure their albedo?
Why should anybody care?
I don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168120</id>
	<title>trade secret</title>
	<author>Conzar</author>
	<datestamp>1265035260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that cannot be released</p></div><p>Trade Secret = GNOMES</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that can not be releasedTrade Secret = GNOMES</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the race and gender of its work force is a trade secret that cannot be releasedTrade Secret = GNOMES
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165010</id>
	<title>we MUST hide (and protect) our african americans!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why hide how many african americans you have?  In the tech field there aren't that many AA engineers around.  By empirical observation, I've noticed that most AA tend to get into management.

They have the ability, just no interest.  Partially, I believe it is because of the inherent geek culture which I think is very white male.  Movie quotes, media stuff and what not.  For most racial types including the white female, it isn't particularly interesting.  If you're brought up in a mostly black culture, I would think it would be pretty disconcerting.  Most of us being pack animals you generally want to go where the herd is.

It works well with the other racial types since there are ample representation of the other races.  Indians, asians, and africans have good representations and can overcome the geek culture.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why hide how many african americans you have ?
In the tech field there are n't that many AA engineers around .
By empirical observation , I 've noticed that most AA tend to get into management .
They have the ability , just no interest .
Partially , I believe it is because of the inherent geek culture which I think is very white male .
Movie quotes , media stuff and what not .
For most racial types including the white female , it is n't particularly interesting .
If you 're brought up in a mostly black culture , I would think it would be pretty disconcerting .
Most of us being pack animals you generally want to go where the herd is .
It works well with the other racial types since there are ample representation of the other races .
Indians , asians , and africans have good representations and can overcome the geek culture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why hide how many african americans you have?
In the tech field there aren't that many AA engineers around.
By empirical observation, I've noticed that most AA tend to get into management.
They have the ability, just no interest.
Partially, I believe it is because of the inherent geek culture which I think is very white male.
Movie quotes, media stuff and what not.
For most racial types including the white female, it isn't particularly interesting.
If you're brought up in a mostly black culture, I would think it would be pretty disconcerting.
Most of us being pack animals you generally want to go where the herd is.
It works well with the other racial types since there are ample representation of the other races.
Indians, asians, and africans have good representations and can overcome the geek culture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164738</id>
	<title>I'm pretty sure</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266341160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the EEOC and Congress will see it differently.</p><p>Wonder what *else* Congress will ask while they've got them on the stand...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the EEOC and Congress will see it differently.Wonder what * else * Congress will ask while they 've got them on the stand.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the EEOC and Congress will see it differently.Wonder what *else* Congress will ask while they've got them on the stand...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165514</id>
	<title>No matter how thin you slice it....</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1266346320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So, let me get this straight. A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data. The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data. On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?</i> </p><p>"Those damn reporters are trying to hurt us.<br>No good can come from such a disclosure."</p><p>There isn't a black man, a woman or Jew above a certain age who hasn't heard that refrain a thousand times before.</p><p>The geek celebrates the anonymous wikimedia leak - when it is damaging to those he hates.</p><p>When the open and legal pursuit of inside information cuts too close to home - he bleeds for the innocent.</p><p>\_\_\_\_\_</p><p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/about/diversity/programs/dac/wam.mspx" title="microsoft.com">Women at Microsoft</a> [microsoft.com]  is the women's employee affinity group at Microsoft.<br>More than 10,000 women employees worldwide are currently members of WAM. [2010] More than 3,000 of Microsoft's women employees turned out to network and listen to more than 30 speakers at the <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/nov09/11-02WomensConference.mspx" title="microsoft.com"> Microsoft Women's Leadership and Development Conference</a> [microsoft.com] [Oct 26-28 09]</p><p>There are around forty of these Microsoft affinity groups. The Chinese, with 1,500 members, is the largest ethnic group. <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/about/diversity/programs/dac.mspx#arab" title="microsoft.com">Diversity Advisory Councils</a> [microsoft.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , let me get this straight .
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies , trying to force them to disclose private data .
The media company is doing this purely out of malice , as there is no good that can come from release of this data .
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable ?
" Those damn reporters are trying to hurt us.No good can come from such a disclosure .
" There is n't a black man , a woman or Jew above a certain age who has n't heard that refrain a thousand times before.The geek celebrates the anonymous wikimedia leak - when it is damaging to those he hates.When the open and legal pursuit of inside information cuts too close to home - he bleeds for the innocent. \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _Women at Microsoft [ microsoft.com ] is the women 's employee affinity group at Microsoft.More than 10,000 women employees worldwide are currently members of WAM .
[ 2010 ] More than 3,000 of Microsoft 's women employees turned out to network and listen to more than 30 speakers at the Microsoft Women 's Leadership and Development Conference [ microsoft.com ] [ Oct 26-28 09 ] There are around forty of these Microsoft affinity groups .
The Chinese , with 1,500 members , is the largest ethnic group .
Diversity Advisory Councils [ microsoft.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, let me get this straight.
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data.
The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data.
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?
"Those damn reporters are trying to hurt us.No good can come from such a disclosure.
"There isn't a black man, a woman or Jew above a certain age who hasn't heard that refrain a thousand times before.The geek celebrates the anonymous wikimedia leak - when it is damaging to those he hates.When the open and legal pursuit of inside information cuts too close to home - he bleeds for the innocent.\_\_\_\_\_Women at Microsoft [microsoft.com]  is the women's employee affinity group at Microsoft.More than 10,000 women employees worldwide are currently members of WAM.
[2010] More than 3,000 of Microsoft's women employees turned out to network and listen to more than 30 speakers at the  Microsoft Women's Leadership and Development Conference [microsoft.com] [Oct 26-28 09]There are around forty of these Microsoft affinity groups.
The Chinese, with 1,500 members, is the largest ethnic group.
Diversity Advisory Councils [microsoft.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31169234</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>thethibs</author>
	<datestamp>1265040120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to know why, read <i>Outliers</i>. It turns out that success in nerdland is closely tied to what year you were born in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to know why , read Outliers .
It turns out that success in nerdland is closely tied to what year you were born in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to know why, read Outliers.
It turns out that success in nerdland is closely tied to what year you were born in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166832</id>
	<title>Race mechanoid, gender androgynous?</title>
	<author>John Sokol</author>
	<datestamp>1265021640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe they don't want us to know the real reason there are no more jobs in the US,  because space aliens from  Alpha Centauri took all the jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they do n't want us to know the real reason there are no more jobs in the US , because space aliens from Alpha Centauri took all the jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they don't want us to know the real reason there are no more jobs in the US,  because space aliens from  Alpha Centauri took all the jobs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167604</id>
	<title>As Google might say...</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1265030640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...if you've got nothing to hide...</htmltext>
<tokenext>...if you 've got nothing to hide.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if you've got nothing to hide...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165594</id>
	<title>Re:we MUST hide (and protect) our african american</title>
	<author>SydShamino</author>
	<datestamp>1266347040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every. Single. Person. who one of my company's recruiters speaks to, or who speaks to one of the recruiters, is asked to fill out the blue self-identification form.  It's a requirement since we're a government contractor.  If they fill it out, as far as I know they can put whatever they want to on it and we take it.</p><p>It's their choice to fill it out; it's optional.  If they don't, though, the recruiter is required to fill it out, making best guesses.</p><p>Google is also a government contractor and I'm quite certain has the same requirement.</p><p>I assume this is done (and hammered in at my office) so that we can show the racial diversity at the start of the recruiting process and the final diversity of the subsequent workforce, and then the government can look for patterns that indicate we're being biased in some way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every .
Single. Person .
who one of my company 's recruiters speaks to , or who speaks to one of the recruiters , is asked to fill out the blue self-identification form .
It 's a requirement since we 're a government contractor .
If they fill it out , as far as I know they can put whatever they want to on it and we take it.It 's their choice to fill it out ; it 's optional .
If they do n't , though , the recruiter is required to fill it out , making best guesses.Google is also a government contractor and I 'm quite certain has the same requirement.I assume this is done ( and hammered in at my office ) so that we can show the racial diversity at the start of the recruiting process and the final diversity of the subsequent workforce , and then the government can look for patterns that indicate we 're being biased in some way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every.
Single. Person.
who one of my company's recruiters speaks to, or who speaks to one of the recruiters, is asked to fill out the blue self-identification form.
It's a requirement since we're a government contractor.
If they fill it out, as far as I know they can put whatever they want to on it and we take it.It's their choice to fill it out; it's optional.
If they don't, though, the recruiter is required to fill it out, making best guesses.Google is also a government contractor and I'm quite certain has the same requirement.I assume this is done (and hammered in at my office) so that we can show the racial diversity at the start of the recruiting process and the final diversity of the subsequent workforce, and then the government can look for patterns that indicate we're being biased in some way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165510</id>
	<title>Re:Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>Improv</author>
	<datestamp>1266346260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not purely out of malice, it's because it's in the public interest. It's acceptable here.</p><p>Journalists are not magical pure sources of good; they never were. That doesn't meant that we're better off without them and all the prying they can do. To the contrary - I wish they did more prying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not purely out of malice , it 's because it 's in the public interest .
It 's acceptable here.Journalists are not magical pure sources of good ; they never were .
That does n't meant that we 're better off without them and all the prying they can do .
To the contrary - I wish they did more prying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not purely out of malice, it's because it's in the public interest.
It's acceptable here.Journalists are not magical pure sources of good; they never were.
That doesn't meant that we're better off without them and all the prying they can do.
To the contrary - I wish they did more prying.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165718</id>
	<title>HR can't think of an African American employee?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Google's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had."</p><p>In the 13 months I worked as a contractor on the Mountain View campus I remember seeing 5 or maybe 10.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Google 's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had .
" In the 13 months I worked as a contractor on the Mountain View campus I remember seeing 5 or maybe 10 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Google's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had.
"In the 13 months I worked as a contractor on the Mountain View campus I remember seeing 5 or maybe 10.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165908</id>
	<title>Solution</title>
	<author>postmortem</author>
	<datestamp>1266349740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can't they simply count Indians as backs?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't they simply count Indians as backs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't they simply count Indians as backs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167520</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265029860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.</p></div><p>Such people tend to obtain some advantages for their children that they didn't have. Few more generations and it's over.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas , are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus , even though they may be competitively intelligent , are n't able to make the most of it.Such people tend to obtain some advantages for their children that they did n't have .
Few more generations and it 's over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.Such people tend to obtain some advantages for their children that they didn't have.
Few more generations and it's over.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31176772</id>
	<title>TOP SECRET, DO NOT TAKE OUT OF FORUM.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265021760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in all US hightech co.</p><p>white: 50\%<br>oriental: 40\%<br>others: 10\%</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in all US hightech co.white : 50 \ % oriental : 40 \ % others : 10 \ %</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in all US hightech co.white: 50\%oriental: 40\%others: 10\%</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165236</id>
	<title>Why should this even matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's more important? That these companies deliver the highest quality product at the best price or that they hire the most from underrepresented groups? If minorities can't get a job based on their merits, they don't deserve it, plain and simple.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's more important ?
That these companies deliver the highest quality product at the best price or that they hire the most from underrepresented groups ?
If minorities ca n't get a job based on their merits , they do n't deserve it , plain and simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's more important?
That these companies deliver the highest quality product at the best price or that they hire the most from underrepresented groups?
If minorities can't get a job based on their merits, they don't deserve it, plain and simple.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165302</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Huh? Why would they need/want to hide their legal non-citizen employees? Was that an anti-immigration jab?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Huh ?
Why would they need/want to hide their legal non-citizen employees ?
Was that an anti-immigration jab ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Huh?
Why would they need/want to hide their legal non-citizen employees?
Was that an anti-immigration jab?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167398</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265028240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>But you shouldn't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women. It's unfair and discriminatory</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Yes, but that's not fair!  You're denying me my right of free speech to talk utter bollocks!  You equal opportunity Nazis are all just closet commies!
<br> <br>
I'm off to read Ayn Rand and dream about being a self-made billionaire.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But you should n't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women .
It 's unfair and discriminatory Yes , but that 's not fair !
You 're denying me my right of free speech to talk utter bollocks !
You equal opportunity Nazis are all just closet commies !
I 'm off to read Ayn Rand and dream about being a self-made billionaire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But you shouldn't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women.
It's unfair and discriminatory

Yes, but that's not fair!
You're denying me my right of free speech to talk utter bollocks!
You equal opportunity Nazis are all just closet commies!
I'm off to read Ayn Rand and dream about being a self-made billionaire.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31172448</id>
	<title>Equal opportunity</title>
	<author>orient</author>
	<datestamp>1265050320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does the federal government have the proper percentage of races among its employees? Or the IRS, DOD, NSA?
<br> <br>
There's a word for that: <strong>hypocrisy.</strong></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the federal government have the proper percentage of races among its employees ?
Or the IRS , DOD , NSA ?
There 's a word for that : hypocrisy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the federal government have the proper percentage of races among its employees?
Or the IRS, DOD, NSA?
There's a word for that: hypocrisy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165326</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Ethanol-fueled</author>
	<datestamp>1266345000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor?</p></div></blockquote><p>

Yes. Hypothetical example: lots of women work ar Oracle, lots of competitors' men flock to Oracle. It's not rocket science - and when you're a socially-inept nerd "on the floor" even a light whiff of perfume or floral hair conditioner every now and then makes all the difference.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor ?
Yes. Hypothetical example : lots of women work ar Oracle , lots of competitors ' men flock to Oracle .
It 's not rocket science - and when you 're a socially-inept nerd " on the floor " even a light whiff of perfume or floral hair conditioner every now and then makes all the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor?
Yes. Hypothetical example: lots of women work ar Oracle, lots of competitors' men flock to Oracle.
It's not rocket science - and when you're a socially-inept nerd "on the floor" even a light whiff of perfume or floral hair conditioner every now and then makes all the difference.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166016</id>
	<title>Question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265055000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What i wonder: Is it legal in the US to store the race of an employee in his records? If you would do something like this here in germany, you would be in very deep trouble.... Due to the history with the Nazi regime the term "race" has been heavily discredited.</p><p>How do you assign a "race" to an employee? Can he dispute that assignment?</p><p>How do you determine a "race" scientifically? The Nazis had a complete bureaucracy with scientific staff to do this and the results were still completely at haphazard. Mostly they went for the religion of the grandparents.</p><p>Completely baffled, Martin</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What i wonder : Is it legal in the US to store the race of an employee in his records ?
If you would do something like this here in germany , you would be in very deep trouble.... Due to the history with the Nazi regime the term " race " has been heavily discredited.How do you assign a " race " to an employee ?
Can he dispute that assignment ? How do you determine a " race " scientifically ?
The Nazis had a complete bureaucracy with scientific staff to do this and the results were still completely at haphazard .
Mostly they went for the religion of the grandparents.Completely baffled , Martin</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What i wonder: Is it legal in the US to store the race of an employee in his records?
If you would do something like this here in germany, you would be in very deep trouble.... Due to the history with the Nazi regime the term "race" has been heavily discredited.How do you assign a "race" to an employee?
Can he dispute that assignment?How do you determine a "race" scientifically?
The Nazis had a complete bureaucracy with scientific staff to do this and the results were still completely at haphazard.
Mostly they went for the religion of the grandparents.Completely baffled, Martin</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167568</id>
	<title>Re:Hire based on qualifications</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265030340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Black people have a different temperament than white people, women are sensitive and men are practical<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
You really are an utter twat aren't you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Black people have a different temperament than white people , women are sensitive and men are practical ... I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers You really are an utter twat are n't you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Black people have a different temperament than white people, women are sensitive and men are practical ... I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers

You really are an utter twat aren't you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165062</id>
	<title>Re:Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>micheas</author>
	<datestamp>1266343260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No you got it wrong.</p><p>What the merc is suing for is the Government data about the ethnic makeup of Googles employees.</p><p>Google is demanding that that Government data not be released to the Merc.</p><p>Even if Google is correct, it is still sort of hard to see how Google fighting this will result in anything good for google.</p><p>The very high importance that Google puts on college GPA probably skews the hiring process away from more entrepreneurial cultures and towards the more academically oriented ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No you got it wrong.What the merc is suing for is the Government data about the ethnic makeup of Googles employees.Google is demanding that that Government data not be released to the Merc.Even if Google is correct , it is still sort of hard to see how Google fighting this will result in anything good for google.The very high importance that Google puts on college GPA probably skews the hiring process away from more entrepreneurial cultures and towards the more academically oriented ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No you got it wrong.What the merc is suing for is the Government data about the ethnic makeup of Googles employees.Google is demanding that that Government data not be released to the Merc.Even if Google is correct, it is still sort of hard to see how Google fighting this will result in anything good for google.The very high importance that Google puts on college GPA probably skews the hiring process away from more entrepreneurial cultures and towards the more academically oriented ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165412</id>
	<title>As for Apple...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266345540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We all knew given the naming of iPad, that they had no women in their marketing/strategic decision making (all that synergy stuff) dept.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We all knew given the naming of iPad , that they had no women in their marketing/strategic decision making ( all that synergy stuff ) dept .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all knew given the naming of iPad, that they had no women in their marketing/strategic decision making (all that synergy stuff) dept.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31171980</id>
	<title>Re:Big Deal</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1265048880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course, if you want to expand your definition of "black" to include Indians or Arabs, you'll find plenty of influential mathematicians.</p></div><p>Oh in the name of Heaven, can we Middle-Easterners just have our own damn category already!?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , if you want to expand your definition of " black " to include Indians or Arabs , you 'll find plenty of influential mathematicians.Oh in the name of Heaven , can we Middle-Easterners just have our own damn category already !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, if you want to expand your definition of "black" to include Indians or Arabs, you'll find plenty of influential mathematicians.Oh in the name of Heaven, can we Middle-Easterners just have our own damn category already!
?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165016</id>
	<title>They'll be furious</title>
	<author>dushkin</author>
	<datestamp>1266343080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Consumers will be furious when they find out there are GIRLS working there!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consumers will be furious when they find out there are GIRLS working there !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consumers will be furious when they find out there are GIRLS working there!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170824</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>alexo</author>
	<datestamp>1265045580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's the H1Bs.</p></div></blockquote><p>No no no, it's the H2Os and the H1N1s.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the H1Bs.No no no , it 's the H2Os and the H1N1s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the H1Bs.No no no, it's the H2Os and the H1N1s.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165676</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it very well may be skewed in the favor of the minorities. The best are often not the average white males, who have a crap work ethic, but those who really had to give it their all to succeed, either because they went through far more rigorous schooling programs like many found outside the US, or as a result of being a minority in the United States.</p><p>Also be warned that the brightest and the best are rarely the same. I would know. While I may not be the absolute brightest, I'm invariably in the 99th precentile on standardized tests, and by scores very far into said percentile, likely equivalent to 997-999 per mille. But am I the best? Hell no. I have a terrible work ethic, and have never performed to my potential. I see the same in many others too so I'm not an odd exception.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it very well may be skewed in the favor of the minorities .
The best are often not the average white males , who have a crap work ethic , but those who really had to give it their all to succeed , either because they went through far more rigorous schooling programs like many found outside the US , or as a result of being a minority in the United States.Also be warned that the brightest and the best are rarely the same .
I would know .
While I may not be the absolute brightest , I 'm invariably in the 99th precentile on standardized tests , and by scores very far into said percentile , likely equivalent to 997-999 per mille .
But am I the best ?
Hell no .
I have a terrible work ethic , and have never performed to my potential .
I see the same in many others too so I 'm not an odd exception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it very well may be skewed in the favor of the minorities.
The best are often not the average white males, who have a crap work ethic, but those who really had to give it their all to succeed, either because they went through far more rigorous schooling programs like many found outside the US, or as a result of being a minority in the United States.Also be warned that the brightest and the best are rarely the same.
I would know.
While I may not be the absolute brightest, I'm invariably in the 99th precentile on standardized tests, and by scores very far into said percentile, likely equivalent to 997-999 per mille.
But am I the best?
Hell no.
I have a terrible work ethic, and have never performed to my potential.
I see the same in many others too so I'm not an odd exception.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165118</id>
	<title>Mitch Hedberg</title>
	<author>Yvan256</author>
	<datestamp>1266343680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You know when people are talking about race and colour, and they say &lsquo;I don&rsquo;t care if he&rsquo;s black, white, green or purple&rsquo;? Wait a second... purple or green? I say we need to draw the line somewhere. Screw purple people! Unless they&rsquo;re choking, in which case, help them.&rdquo;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You know when people are talking about race and colour , and they say    I don    t care if he    s black , white , green or purple    ?
Wait a second... purple or green ?
I say we need to draw the line somewhere .
Screw purple people !
Unless they    re choking , in which case , help them.   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You know when people are talking about race and colour, and they say ‘I don’t care if he’s black, white, green or purple’?
Wait a second... purple or green?
I say we need to draw the line somewhere.
Screw purple people!
Unless they’re choking, in which case, help them.”</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165446</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266345720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly, they want to hide how few Americans they actually employ.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , they want to hide how few Americans they actually employ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, they want to hide how few Americans they actually employ.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164770</id>
	<title>Business Strategy?</title>
	<author>mlawrence</author>
	<datestamp>1266341400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ?   In this context, how is that not racist?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ ?
In this context , how is that not racist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ?
In this context, how is that not racist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166068</id>
	<title>Re:Google's CEO said it best</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265055660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who's the idiot who marked this comment a troll? It may be snarky, but it's certainly not a troll. The question is entirely valid.
<p>
What is Google hiding by misrepresenting their employee demographics as trade secrets? It's obviously not a trade secret, or all other companies would try to hide this information too. Moreover, there are rules governing what qualifies as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade\_secret" title="wikipedia.org">bona fide trade secret</a> [wikipedia.org]. That means some information is being hidden, rather clumsily. It might be something silly, it might be just a gaffe by the PR types, or it might not be. But either way, the
question "what is Google hiding" is valid in view of this misrepresentation.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who 's the idiot who marked this comment a troll ?
It may be snarky , but it 's certainly not a troll .
The question is entirely valid .
What is Google hiding by misrepresenting their employee demographics as trade secrets ?
It 's obviously not a trade secret , or all other companies would try to hide this information too .
Moreover , there are rules governing what qualifies as a bona fide trade secret [ wikipedia.org ] .
That means some information is being hidden , rather clumsily .
It might be something silly , it might be just a gaffe by the PR types , or it might not be .
But either way , the question " what is Google hiding " is valid in view of this misrepresentation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who's the idiot who marked this comment a troll?
It may be snarky, but it's certainly not a troll.
The question is entirely valid.
What is Google hiding by misrepresenting their employee demographics as trade secrets?
It's obviously not a trade secret, or all other companies would try to hide this information too.
Moreover, there are rules governing what qualifies as a bona fide trade secret [wikipedia.org].
That means some information is being hidden, rather clumsily.
It might be something silly, it might be just a gaffe by the PR types, or it might not be.
But either way, the
question "what is Google hiding" is valid in view of this misrepresentation.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165788</id>
	<title>leave it to the /. dopes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266348600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To completely miss the point.<br>Again.<br>Not for the last time.</p><p>Here is a hint: these companies fought tooth and nail for 18 months to block the release of government data. It was already out the door. You and me and the four other tax-paying<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. commenters paid for that data. But these companies who are oh so helpless when it comes to violating our rights and privacy have no problem fighting like caged badgers to protect their own stuff.</p><p>Google are big fat hypocrites. Sergey and Larry put photos of everyone's homes online. Except their own. Sergey and Larry feed their vast fortunes by collecting and trading unimaginable quantities of data on hundreds of millions of people. Except themselves. Google is very big on privacy-- for themselves. People love them for the free shiny toys. Think about what those toys really cost you.</p><p>Apple are paranoid obsessive compulsives, so it's not unusual for them. Remember when they sicced an attack lawyer on a little girl who dared to write in with a product suggestion?<br>http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/14/apple-legal-sends-little-girl-running-crying-to-room/</p><p>etc....these are not private companies. They are publicly-held, which means there are laws and rules regarding disclosure they must follow.  Once again, money talks loudest. You should not be happy at this outcome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To completely miss the point.Again.Not for the last time.Here is a hint : these companies fought tooth and nail for 18 months to block the release of government data .
It was already out the door .
You and me and the four other tax-paying / .
commenters paid for that data .
But these companies who are oh so helpless when it comes to violating our rights and privacy have no problem fighting like caged badgers to protect their own stuff.Google are big fat hypocrites .
Sergey and Larry put photos of everyone 's homes online .
Except their own .
Sergey and Larry feed their vast fortunes by collecting and trading unimaginable quantities of data on hundreds of millions of people .
Except themselves .
Google is very big on privacy-- for themselves .
People love them for the free shiny toys .
Think about what those toys really cost you.Apple are paranoid obsessive compulsives , so it 's not unusual for them .
Remember when they sicced an attack lawyer on a little girl who dared to write in with a product suggestion ? http : //www.engadget.com/2006/04/14/apple-legal-sends-little-girl-running-crying-to-room/etc....these are not private companies .
They are publicly-held , which means there are laws and rules regarding disclosure they must follow .
Once again , money talks loudest .
You should not be happy at this outcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To completely miss the point.Again.Not for the last time.Here is a hint: these companies fought tooth and nail for 18 months to block the release of government data.
It was already out the door.
You and me and the four other tax-paying /.
commenters paid for that data.
But these companies who are oh so helpless when it comes to violating our rights and privacy have no problem fighting like caged badgers to protect their own stuff.Google are big fat hypocrites.
Sergey and Larry put photos of everyone's homes online.
Except their own.
Sergey and Larry feed their vast fortunes by collecting and trading unimaginable quantities of data on hundreds of millions of people.
Except themselves.
Google is very big on privacy-- for themselves.
People love them for the free shiny toys.
Think about what those toys really cost you.Apple are paranoid obsessive compulsives, so it's not unusual for them.
Remember when they sicced an attack lawyer on a little girl who dared to write in with a product suggestion?http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/14/apple-legal-sends-little-girl-running-crying-to-room/etc....these are not private companies.
They are publicly-held, which means there are laws and rules regarding disclosure they must follow.
Once again, money talks loudest.
You should not be happy at this outcome.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164870</id>
	<title>There is no such thing as race</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't stand answering this questions on various government forms. Variance within racial groups is larger than variance between racial groups.</p><p>Why don't they just ask you what shade your skin is and what your hair looks like? That's really what they want to know; and that's when you realize how absurd the question of "what race are you?" is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't stand answering this questions on various government forms .
Variance within racial groups is larger than variance between racial groups.Why do n't they just ask you what shade your skin is and what your hair looks like ?
That 's really what they want to know ; and that 's when you realize how absurd the question of " what race are you ?
" is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't stand answering this questions on various government forms.
Variance within racial groups is larger than variance between racial groups.Why don't they just ask you what shade your skin is and what your hair looks like?
That's really what they want to know; and that's when you realize how absurd the question of "what race are you?
" is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165284</id>
	<title>Hired By Merit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google cannot afford to hire by anything but merit.  If they excluded all the brilliant black applicants as one of those links suggests, they would quickly be overtaken by their competitors because they hadn't hired the best.  This is comparable to Jewish German physicists building the bomb for America.</p><p>It isn't happening.</p><p>This isn't racism.  It's realism.  If you believe otherwise, you're simply indulging in ignorance for the sake of politics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google can not afford to hire by anything but merit .
If they excluded all the brilliant black applicants as one of those links suggests , they would quickly be overtaken by their competitors because they had n't hired the best .
This is comparable to Jewish German physicists building the bomb for America.It is n't happening.This is n't racism .
It 's realism .
If you believe otherwise , you 're simply indulging in ignorance for the sake of politics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google cannot afford to hire by anything but merit.
If they excluded all the brilliant black applicants as one of those links suggests, they would quickly be overtaken by their competitors because they hadn't hired the best.
This is comparable to Jewish German physicists building the bomb for America.It isn't happening.This isn't racism.
It's realism.
If you believe otherwise, you're simply indulging in ignorance for the sake of politics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31172212</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1265049540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I understand your feelings. Most people who complain about H1-B visas do not object to the people who receive the visas. They are upset with companies that game the H1-B visa system to avoid paying the local going rate for the specialtists they need. Unfortunately, there are a vocal minority of those who have problems with the H1-B system who are anti-immigrant.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I understand your feelings .
Most people who complain about H1-B visas do not object to the people who receive the visas .
They are upset with companies that game the H1-B visa system to avoid paying the local going rate for the specialtists they need .
Unfortunately , there are a vocal minority of those who have problems with the H1-B system who are anti-immigrant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I understand your feelings.
Most people who complain about H1-B visas do not object to the people who receive the visas.
They are upset with companies that game the H1-B visa system to avoid paying the local going rate for the specialtists they need.
Unfortunately, there are a vocal minority of those who have problems with the H1-B system who are anti-immigrant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164880</id>
	<title>process of elimination game:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>probably not 90\% blacks.<br>Next guess:\_</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>probably not 90 \ % blacks.Next guess : \ _</tokentext>
<sentencetext>probably not 90\% blacks.Next guess:\_</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165864</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266349260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer: I used to be on H1-B and am a permanent resident now.</p><p>Do not forget that it is 65,000 "new" H1Bs, they are valid for 3 years, renewable once for a theoretical total of 6 years. It is also extendable from year to year pending a change of status, usually while the green card application is being processed. Some people can be on H1-B for 12 years with this. Add to that the fact that H1-B are usually concentrated in a few areas and you get more than 1\% of the local "workforce" (not the same as population).</p><p>That said I would estimate that the average H1B last 5 years. Personally I think the green card process is broken, if the queue is taking many years to process either the US should put more resources into it (it cost lost of money so it got to be profitable) or be more picky about application and reject them sooner.</p><p>I'm a bit annoyed at all the bad press H1-B visas get. Sure there is a lot of abuse, but I like to believe that in my case there was a genuine need for a foreigner. While being on a H1-B I've quit twice and each time for a significantly larger salary. On my last H1-B year my total compensation was double the required H1-B salary. I have a few friends that have been on H1-B and most of them were much more qualified than the average software developer here in Silicon Valley.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I used to be on H1-B and am a permanent resident now.Do not forget that it is 65,000 " new " H1Bs , they are valid for 3 years , renewable once for a theoretical total of 6 years .
It is also extendable from year to year pending a change of status , usually while the green card application is being processed .
Some people can be on H1-B for 12 years with this .
Add to that the fact that H1-B are usually concentrated in a few areas and you get more than 1 \ % of the local " workforce " ( not the same as population ) .That said I would estimate that the average H1B last 5 years .
Personally I think the green card process is broken , if the queue is taking many years to process either the US should put more resources into it ( it cost lost of money so it got to be profitable ) or be more picky about application and reject them sooner.I 'm a bit annoyed at all the bad press H1-B visas get .
Sure there is a lot of abuse , but I like to believe that in my case there was a genuine need for a foreigner .
While being on a H1-B I 've quit twice and each time for a significantly larger salary .
On my last H1-B year my total compensation was double the required H1-B salary .
I have a few friends that have been on H1-B and most of them were much more qualified than the average software developer here in Silicon Valley .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer: I used to be on H1-B and am a permanent resident now.Do not forget that it is 65,000 "new" H1Bs, they are valid for 3 years, renewable once for a theoretical total of 6 years.
It is also extendable from year to year pending a change of status, usually while the green card application is being processed.
Some people can be on H1-B for 12 years with this.
Add to that the fact that H1-B are usually concentrated in a few areas and you get more than 1\% of the local "workforce" (not the same as population).That said I would estimate that the average H1B last 5 years.
Personally I think the green card process is broken, if the queue is taking many years to process either the US should put more resources into it (it cost lost of money so it got to be profitable) or be more picky about application and reject them sooner.I'm a bit annoyed at all the bad press H1-B visas get.
Sure there is a lot of abuse, but I like to believe that in my case there was a genuine need for a foreigner.
While being on a H1-B I've quit twice and each time for a significantly larger salary.
On my last H1-B year my total compensation was double the required H1-B salary.
I have a few friends that have been on H1-B and most of them were much more qualified than the average software developer here in Silicon Valley.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31171686</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Darth\_brooks</author>
	<datestamp>1265048040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The quickest flaw in your logic: You're talking about 65,000 / Number of employable American citizens. That's far less than 300 million. Practically, you're talking probably into the 120 million range tops. That still only bumps your number up to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.04-.05 percent, but its a start</p><p>Next flaw: assuming visas are issued to 'workers' regardless of industry. H1b visas aren't issues to Cambodian rice farming peasants who want to work the drive-though at a Steubenville, OH McDonalds. There are plenty of people with the skills to work drive through jobs, so we don't 'need' to import people for these jobs.</p><p>and, as mentioned in other posts, it's only a hard cap per year. The actual number of people working on an H1b visa would appear to be significantly higher than just 65,000. If you we assume that the IT world has a disproportionate number of H1b visa holders, then the numbers start to get to a point where it becomes worth asking the question "Is the H1b visa program really filling a need, or is it being exploited as a way of paying far below market value for employees?"</p><p>My own experience involves hearing management say that people 'just aren't available', when the reality is there are plenty of people available. Just not quality, experienced people who are will to work for less-than-helpdesk wages with no benefits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The quickest flaw in your logic : You 're talking about 65,000 / Number of employable American citizens .
That 's far less than 300 million .
Practically , you 're talking probably into the 120 million range tops .
That still only bumps your number up to .04-.05 percent , but its a startNext flaw : assuming visas are issued to 'workers ' regardless of industry .
H1b visas are n't issues to Cambodian rice farming peasants who want to work the drive-though at a Steubenville , OH McDonalds .
There are plenty of people with the skills to work drive through jobs , so we do n't 'need ' to import people for these jobs.and , as mentioned in other posts , it 's only a hard cap per year .
The actual number of people working on an H1b visa would appear to be significantly higher than just 65,000 .
If you we assume that the IT world has a disproportionate number of H1b visa holders , then the numbers start to get to a point where it becomes worth asking the question " Is the H1b visa program really filling a need , or is it being exploited as a way of paying far below market value for employees ?
" My own experience involves hearing management say that people 'just are n't available ' , when the reality is there are plenty of people available .
Just not quality , experienced people who are will to work for less-than-helpdesk wages with no benefits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The quickest flaw in your logic: You're talking about 65,000 / Number of employable American citizens.
That's far less than 300 million.
Practically, you're talking probably into the 120 million range tops.
That still only bumps your number up to .04-.05 percent, but its a startNext flaw: assuming visas are issued to 'workers' regardless of industry.
H1b visas aren't issues to Cambodian rice farming peasants who want to work the drive-though at a Steubenville, OH McDonalds.
There are plenty of people with the skills to work drive through jobs, so we don't 'need' to import people for these jobs.and, as mentioned in other posts, it's only a hard cap per year.
The actual number of people working on an H1b visa would appear to be significantly higher than just 65,000.
If you we assume that the IT world has a disproportionate number of H1b visa holders, then the numbers start to get to a point where it becomes worth asking the question "Is the H1b visa program really filling a need, or is it being exploited as a way of paying far below market value for employees?
"My own experience involves hearing management say that people 'just aren't available', when the reality is there are plenty of people available.
Just not quality, experienced people who are will to work for less-than-helpdesk wages with no benefits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167328</id>
	<title>Oh no... this again</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1265027460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Employers are not sexists and are not racists.  They are impatient and cheap.  They will pay the lowest wage that anyone will accept.  They will hire the first qualified people to fit their needs.</p><p>Business doesn't care and the race or gender of its employees so long as they get the job done.</p><p>Instead of looking where women and black people AREN'T, I think it would be better to look where women and black people ARE and to see why they are happy (?) where they are.  If the people who see injustice in the workplace want to make changes, it would be easier to interest these groups of people to move into other professions by making them less comfortable in the jobs they populate today.</p><p>Where I work today, there are five black people.  Five out of around 150 employees.  Two of those black people are women and they are literally in the paper-pushing department.  Two of the black men are exceptionally intelligent people and are employed into some highly technical roles and the other is in administration.  The three black men have failed to fit within their stereotype moulds and no one seems at all uncomfortable with that... in fact, I doubt anyone gives it any thought at all except to wonder why they are so different from other black people they may known to see.</p><p>I seriously doubt the black people we have working with us today were hired because of some quota-guilt system.  They seem to have been hired because they are qualified for their jobs and seem to do their jobs quite well.  In contrast, where we see most black people employed are in roles that are close to the government -- federal, state and local.  Why is this?  Could it be all the effort that goes into "fairness and equality" has managed to unbalance distribution in another unfair way?</p><p>I guess what I am saying is that perhaps we need to re-examine our current system and philosophy where it comes to "diversity."  We have been forcing and enforcing policy for so long, we don't have any idea if the problem has been solved already or not -- or if the solution is actually perpetuating the problem.  (By that, I mean to say, are current policies and practices in government actually "guaranteeing" jobs to 'minorities' and therefore making the idea of competing in the marketplace a less attractive option?  I think so.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Employers are not sexists and are not racists .
They are impatient and cheap .
They will pay the lowest wage that anyone will accept .
They will hire the first qualified people to fit their needs.Business does n't care and the race or gender of its employees so long as they get the job done.Instead of looking where women and black people ARE N'T , I think it would be better to look where women and black people ARE and to see why they are happy ( ?
) where they are .
If the people who see injustice in the workplace want to make changes , it would be easier to interest these groups of people to move into other professions by making them less comfortable in the jobs they populate today.Where I work today , there are five black people .
Five out of around 150 employees .
Two of those black people are women and they are literally in the paper-pushing department .
Two of the black men are exceptionally intelligent people and are employed into some highly technical roles and the other is in administration .
The three black men have failed to fit within their stereotype moulds and no one seems at all uncomfortable with that... in fact , I doubt anyone gives it any thought at all except to wonder why they are so different from other black people they may known to see.I seriously doubt the black people we have working with us today were hired because of some quota-guilt system .
They seem to have been hired because they are qualified for their jobs and seem to do their jobs quite well .
In contrast , where we see most black people employed are in roles that are close to the government -- federal , state and local .
Why is this ?
Could it be all the effort that goes into " fairness and equality " has managed to unbalance distribution in another unfair way ? I guess what I am saying is that perhaps we need to re-examine our current system and philosophy where it comes to " diversity .
" We have been forcing and enforcing policy for so long , we do n't have any idea if the problem has been solved already or not -- or if the solution is actually perpetuating the problem .
( By that , I mean to say , are current policies and practices in government actually " guaranteeing " jobs to 'minorities ' and therefore making the idea of competing in the marketplace a less attractive option ?
I think so .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Employers are not sexists and are not racists.
They are impatient and cheap.
They will pay the lowest wage that anyone will accept.
They will hire the first qualified people to fit their needs.Business doesn't care and the race or gender of its employees so long as they get the job done.Instead of looking where women and black people AREN'T, I think it would be better to look where women and black people ARE and to see why they are happy (?
) where they are.
If the people who see injustice in the workplace want to make changes, it would be easier to interest these groups of people to move into other professions by making them less comfortable in the jobs they populate today.Where I work today, there are five black people.
Five out of around 150 employees.
Two of those black people are women and they are literally in the paper-pushing department.
Two of the black men are exceptionally intelligent people and are employed into some highly technical roles and the other is in administration.
The three black men have failed to fit within their stereotype moulds and no one seems at all uncomfortable with that... in fact, I doubt anyone gives it any thought at all except to wonder why they are so different from other black people they may known to see.I seriously doubt the black people we have working with us today were hired because of some quota-guilt system.
They seem to have been hired because they are qualified for their jobs and seem to do their jobs quite well.
In contrast, where we see most black people employed are in roles that are close to the government -- federal, state and local.
Why is this?
Could it be all the effort that goes into "fairness and equality" has managed to unbalance distribution in another unfair way?I guess what I am saying is that perhaps we need to re-examine our current system and philosophy where it comes to "diversity.
"  We have been forcing and enforcing policy for so long, we don't have any idea if the problem has been solved already or not -- or if the solution is actually perpetuating the problem.
(By that, I mean to say, are current policies and practices in government actually "guaranteeing" jobs to 'minorities' and therefore making the idea of competing in the marketplace a less attractive option?
I think so.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167222</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265026140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Yeah, the government really cramped the style of all those cunts on Wall Street.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest Yeah , the government really cramped the style of all those cunts on Wall Street .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest

Yeah, the government really cramped the style of all those cunts on Wall Street.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167620</id>
	<title>Re:Question</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265030820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How do you assign a "race" to an employee? Can he dispute that assignment?</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Here in the UK we call it "ethnic background" and the person decides themselves by ticking a box.  These sorts of questions are collected anonymously, they're separate from your actual employee records.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you assign a " race " to an employee ?
Can he dispute that assignment ?
Here in the UK we call it " ethnic background " and the person decides themselves by ticking a box .
These sorts of questions are collected anonymously , they 're separate from your actual employee records .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you assign a "race" to an employee?
Can he dispute that assignment?
Here in the UK we call it "ethnic background" and the person decides themselves by ticking a box.
These sorts of questions are collected anonymously, they're separate from your actual employee records.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166622</id>
	<title>*ism goes both ways.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1265019600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Enforcing having a certain number of people of a certain group in a company, is just as much *ism, as enforcing not having them. Because it&rsquo;s making the decision based on *ism, not on fitness for the job.</p><p>What counts is the rules on which people get hired. Not the number of people of a group in a company.</p><p>So I accuse &ldquo;The Merc&rdquo; of using *ism to make money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Enforcing having a certain number of people of a certain group in a company , is just as much * ism , as enforcing not having them .
Because it    s making the decision based on * ism , not on fitness for the job.What counts is the rules on which people get hired .
Not the number of people of a group in a company.So I accuse    The Merc    of using * ism to make money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Enforcing having a certain number of people of a certain group in a company, is just as much *ism, as enforcing not having them.
Because it’s making the decision based on *ism, not on fitness for the job.What counts is the rules on which people get hired.
Not the number of people of a group in a company.So I accuse “The Merc” of using *ism to make money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165634</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1266347280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If Google is trying to hide their H1B statistics then their search engine isn't doing a very good job of it. It took me all of 2 seconds to find this with a search for "google h1b".

<a href="http://www.myvisajobs.com/Company.aspx?ID=225093" title="myvisajobs.com">http://www.myvisajobs.com/Company.aspx?ID=225093</a> [myvisajobs.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Google is trying to hide their H1B statistics then their search engine is n't doing a very good job of it .
It took me all of 2 seconds to find this with a search for " google h1b " .
http : //www.myvisajobs.com/Company.aspx ? ID = 225093 [ myvisajobs.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Google is trying to hide their H1B statistics then their search engine isn't doing a very good job of it.
It took me all of 2 seconds to find this with a search for "google h1b".
http://www.myvisajobs.com/Company.aspx?ID=225093 [myvisajobs.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168726</id>
	<title>Guys you are missing the point!</title>
	<author>Requiem18th</author>
	<datestamp>1265038260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could we stop arguing whether Google is doing this because they have too few or too much minority workers or the merits of Affirmative action and start talking about how hypocrite and wrong is that corporations can have private secrets as if they were people but those same corporations routinely down play or right out ridicule the idea that privacy is a natural right and need of actual people?</p><p>Yes that's one sentence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could we stop arguing whether Google is doing this because they have too few or too much minority workers or the merits of Affirmative action and start talking about how hypocrite and wrong is that corporations can have private secrets as if they were people but those same corporations routinely down play or right out ridicule the idea that privacy is a natural right and need of actual people ? Yes that 's one sentence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could we stop arguing whether Google is doing this because they have too few or too much minority workers or the merits of Affirmative action and start talking about how hypocrite and wrong is that corporations can have private secrets as if they were people but those same corporations routinely down play or right out ridicule the idea that privacy is a natural right and need of actual people?Yes that's one sentence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164996</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Kitkoan</author>
	<datestamp>1266342900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ignoring the potentially messy, and unbounded, arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data, what sort of "trade secret" could they possibly be?</p></div><p>Signs of racial or sexist hiring practices. The information wouldn't be as much of value to corporate secrets as much as hiring practices and public backlash. </p><p>Have a lot of people from a certain ethnic background could be viewed as hiring many people with H1B visa which would reflect very poorly on the company during this recession. Would been seen as giving even more jobs away when they are wanted the most. Or also could be a sign of racial profiling to only want to hire those of a 'preferred' racial background/gender of the hiring staff's preferences. Public image is a very dangerous thing to toy with.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ignoring the potentially messy , and unbounded , arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data , what sort of " trade secret " could they possibly be ? Signs of racial or sexist hiring practices .
The information would n't be as much of value to corporate secrets as much as hiring practices and public backlash .
Have a lot of people from a certain ethnic background could be viewed as hiring many people with H1B visa which would reflect very poorly on the company during this recession .
Would been seen as giving even more jobs away when they are wanted the most .
Or also could be a sign of racial profiling to only want to hire those of a 'preferred ' racial background/gender of the hiring staff 's preferences .
Public image is a very dangerous thing to toy with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ignoring the potentially messy, and unbounded, arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data, what sort of "trade secret" could they possibly be?Signs of racial or sexist hiring practices.
The information wouldn't be as much of value to corporate secrets as much as hiring practices and public backlash.
Have a lot of people from a certain ethnic background could be viewed as hiring many people with H1B visa which would reflect very poorly on the company during this recession.
Would been seen as giving even more jobs away when they are wanted the most.
Or also could be a sign of racial profiling to only want to hire those of a 'preferred' racial background/gender of the hiring staff's preferences.
Public image is a very dangerous thing to toy with.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168888</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1265038920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It wouldn't apply on the job if we'd fixed it in elementary school, so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good (but urban educations were not).</p><p>For that to be the case, though, their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs (so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids), or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school, which means it would have needed to be fixed when their parents had jobs, or when their parents were in elemenary school. And it certainly wouldn't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then.</p></div><p>Or you could've paid for better public education, therefore eliminating the requirement of having money to get a decent education, therefore eliminating the need to actively discriminate in the workforce, therefore leaving everybody happy.</p><p>Yeah, yeah, the evils of public education and all that. Forcing companies to hire sub-standard workers is worse by far.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would n't apply on the job if we 'd fixed it in elementary school , so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good ( but urban educations were not ) .For that to be the case , though , their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs ( so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids ) , or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school , which means it would have needed to be fixed when their parents had jobs , or when their parents were in elemenary school .
And it certainly would n't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then.Or you could 've paid for better public education , therefore eliminating the requirement of having money to get a decent education , therefore eliminating the need to actively discriminate in the workforce , therefore leaving everybody happy.Yeah , yeah , the evils of public education and all that .
Forcing companies to hire sub-standard workers is worse by far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wouldn't apply on the job if we'd fixed it in elementary school, so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good (but urban educations were not).For that to be the case, though, their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs (so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids), or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school, which means it would have needed to be fixed when their parents had jobs, or when their parents were in elemenary school.
And it certainly wouldn't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then.Or you could've paid for better public education, therefore eliminating the requirement of having money to get a decent education, therefore eliminating the need to actively discriminate in the workforce, therefore leaving everybody happy.Yeah, yeah, the evils of public education and all that.
Forcing companies to hire sub-standard workers is worse by far.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164924</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1266342360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Theoretically yes, if a company has sufficient competition to deal with, it doesn't make any sense what so ever to hire based on prejudice.  However, I would imagine that predjudices would become significant factors in the social contacts one often needs to build in order to climb the corporate ladder.  That could very well skew the hiring demographic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Theoretically yes , if a company has sufficient competition to deal with , it does n't make any sense what so ever to hire based on prejudice .
However , I would imagine that predjudices would become significant factors in the social contacts one often needs to build in order to climb the corporate ladder .
That could very well skew the hiring demographic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Theoretically yes, if a company has sufficient competition to deal with, it doesn't make any sense what so ever to hire based on prejudice.
However, I would imagine that predjudices would become significant factors in the social contacts one often needs to build in order to climb the corporate ladder.
That could very well skew the hiring demographic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165644</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>SydShamino</author>
	<datestamp>1266347400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It wouldn't apply on the job if we'd fixed it in elementary school, so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good (but urban educations were not).</p><p>For that to be the case, though, their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs (so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids), or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school, which means it would have needed to be fixed when <i>their</i> parents had jobs, or when their parents were in elemenary school.  And it certainly wouldn't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would n't apply on the job if we 'd fixed it in elementary school , so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good ( but urban educations were not ) .For that to be the case , though , their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs ( so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids ) , or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school , which means it would have needed to be fixed when their parents had jobs , or when their parents were in elemenary school .
And it certainly would n't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wouldn't apply on the job if we'd fixed it in elementary school, so they had all the same chances for a suburban-quality education back when suburban-quality educations were still good (but urban educations were not).For that to be the case, though, their parents would have needed to have it applied on their jobs (so they could pay for a home in the suburbs and college for their kids), or would have needed it to be fixed when those parents were in elementary school, which means it would have needed to be fixed when their parents had jobs, or when their parents were in elemenary school.
And it certainly wouldn't have been fixed then because segregation was the law back then.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167402</id>
	<title>Why is it...</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1265028300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...we never see similar questions being asked of our national sports teams? It's always struck me that their composition is far, far off what it should be if it properly represented our nation's ethnic diversity. Or perhaps it's that, sensibly, our sports teams are selected by ability and not colour or creed?</htmltext>
<tokenext>...we never see similar questions being asked of our national sports teams ?
It 's always struck me that their composition is far , far off what it should be if it properly represented our nation 's ethnic diversity .
Or perhaps it 's that , sensibly , our sports teams are selected by ability and not colour or creed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...we never see similar questions being asked of our national sports teams?
It's always struck me that their composition is far, far off what it should be if it properly represented our nation's ethnic diversity.
Or perhaps it's that, sensibly, our sports teams are selected by ability and not colour or creed?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</id>
	<title>Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1266341880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ignoring the potentially messy, and unbounded, arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data, what sort of "trade secret" could they possibly be?<br> <br>

Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine? Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor?<br> <br>

Even if the data were valuable, they are nothing that you couldn't easily enough gather with a statistics grad and a pair of binoculars and a few days casing the relevant corporate campuses(not to mention the more exotic methods: With modern analytical chemistry, the threshold for what you can detect is pretty impressive. You could probably get an approximate gender ratio for a given building just by sampling the sewer outflow for excreted hormones. You could probably also gauge morale: If you know roughly how many people are working there, you can watch the concentrations metabolites for various drugs and get a rough aggregate sense of what, and how much, the building is on. More SSRIs and anxiolytics? Bad times. More cocaine? Ambiguous, or 80's flashback...) You can sample people for sex or color pretty quickly, and accurately enough, from a fair distance. If the data were worth more than peanuts, it'd already be available.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ignoring the potentially messy , and unbounded , arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data , what sort of " trade secret " could they possibly be ?
Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine ?
Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor ?
Even if the data were valuable , they are nothing that you could n't easily enough gather with a statistics grad and a pair of binoculars and a few days casing the relevant corporate campuses ( not to mention the more exotic methods : With modern analytical chemistry , the threshold for what you can detect is pretty impressive .
You could probably get an approximate gender ratio for a given building just by sampling the sewer outflow for excreted hormones .
You could probably also gauge morale : If you know roughly how many people are working there , you can watch the concentrations metabolites for various drugs and get a rough aggregate sense of what , and how much , the building is on .
More SSRIs and anxiolytics ?
Bad times .
More cocaine ?
Ambiguous , or 80 's flashback... ) You can sample people for sex or color pretty quickly , and accurately enough , from a fair distance .
If the data were worth more than peanuts , it 'd already be available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ignoring the potentially messy, and unbounded, arguments over whether or not anybody should be bothering to collect these data, what sort of "trade secret" could they possibly be?
Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine?
Would knowing how many women work at Oracle be of the slightest use to a competitor?
Even if the data were valuable, they are nothing that you couldn't easily enough gather with a statistics grad and a pair of binoculars and a few days casing the relevant corporate campuses(not to mention the more exotic methods: With modern analytical chemistry, the threshold for what you can detect is pretty impressive.
You could probably get an approximate gender ratio for a given building just by sampling the sewer outflow for excreted hormones.
You could probably also gauge morale: If you know roughly how many people are working there, you can watch the concentrations metabolites for various drugs and get a rough aggregate sense of what, and how much, the building is on.
More SSRIs and anxiolytics?
Bad times.
More cocaine?
Ambiguous, or 80's flashback...) You can sample people for sex or color pretty quickly, and accurately enough, from a fair distance.
If the data were worth more than peanuts, it'd already be available.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31181130</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266525180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nancy Heinen was general council at NeXT and then Apple until 2006.</p><p>Andrea Jung is on Apple's Board of Directors.</p><p>Sina Tamaddon, an Iranian, is Senior VP of Applications at Apple. He's another who came with Steve from NeXT.</p><p>Another transplant to Apple from NeXT, Avie Tevanian, ethnically Armenian (I think), was CTO until about 2006.</p><p>Since you brought them up: for Asians, I've known several who came to study in the States and returned to their home country after graduation to make a living.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nancy Heinen was general council at NeXT and then Apple until 2006.Andrea Jung is on Apple 's Board of Directors.Sina Tamaddon , an Iranian , is Senior VP of Applications at Apple .
He 's another who came with Steve from NeXT.Another transplant to Apple from NeXT , Avie Tevanian , ethnically Armenian ( I think ) , was CTO until about 2006.Since you brought them up : for Asians , I 've known several who came to study in the States and returned to their home country after graduation to make a living .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nancy Heinen was general council at NeXT and then Apple until 2006.Andrea Jung is on Apple's Board of Directors.Sina Tamaddon, an Iranian, is Senior VP of Applications at Apple.
He's another who came with Steve from NeXT.Another transplant to Apple from NeXT, Avie Tevanian, ethnically Armenian (I think), was CTO until about 2006.Since you brought them up: for Asians, I've known several who came to study in the States and returned to their home country after graduation to make a living.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31176748</id>
	<title>The same company that rejects OUR right to privacy</title>
	<author>donberryman</author>
	<datestamp>1265021700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." says Google CEO Eric Schmidt.

By his own logic, Google must be doing something wrong if they want to withhold information about whom they are hiring.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If you have something that you do n't want anyone to know , maybe you should n't be doing it in the first place .
" says Google CEO Eric Schmidt .
By his own logic , Google must be doing something wrong if they want to withhold information about whom they are hiring .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
" says Google CEO Eric Schmidt.
By his own logic, Google must be doing something wrong if they want to withhold information about whom they are hiring.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165266</id>
	<title>Hire based on qualifications</title>
	<author>iPhr0stByt3</author>
	<datestamp>1266344580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Black people have a different temperament than white people, women are sensitive and men are practical, and yes, younger people do learn faster, while older people have more wisdom.   I'm sure there are some out there, but I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers... it's too nerdy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).  Though we all have strengths to contribute, we are NOT all equal, so why should a commercial business be forced to hire equally?  Hire based on qualifications and maximize peoples' strengths.  Sorry if it doesn't look good on paper, but it benefits everyone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Black people have a different temperament than white people , women are sensitive and men are practical , and yes , younger people do learn faster , while older people have more wisdom .
I 'm sure there are some out there , but I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers... it 's too nerdy ; - ) .
Though we all have strengths to contribute , we are NOT all equal , so why should a commercial business be forced to hire equally ?
Hire based on qualifications and maximize peoples ' strengths .
Sorry if it does n't look good on paper , but it benefits everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Black people have a different temperament than white people, women are sensitive and men are practical, and yes, younger people do learn faster, while older people have more wisdom.
I'm sure there are some out there, but I have never met a black woman who likes working on computers... it's too nerdy ;-).
Though we all have strengths to contribute, we are NOT all equal, so why should a commercial business be forced to hire equally?
Hire based on qualifications and maximize peoples' strengths.
Sorry if it doesn't look good on paper, but it benefits everyone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165346</id>
	<title>Equal Employment Policy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266345120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Our equal employment policy is: hire smart people who work hard. Somehow, by paying no attention at all to diversity we now have a workforce of every sex, color, race, sexual orientation, and national origin imaginable. We plan to continue this policy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Our equal employment policy is : hire smart people who work hard .
Somehow , by paying no attention at all to diversity we now have a workforce of every sex , color , race , sexual orientation , and national origin imaginable .
We plan to continue this policy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our equal employment policy is: hire smart people who work hard.
Somehow, by paying no attention at all to diversity we now have a workforce of every sex, color, race, sexual orientation, and national origin imaginable.
We plan to continue this policy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31169976</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265042580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally I can't wait for the announcement of the iPad on Sprint's network.</p><p>"Introducting...the WiMax iPad."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I ca n't wait for the announcement of the iPad on Sprint 's network .
" Introducting...the WiMax iPad .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I can't wait for the announcement of the iPad on Sprint's network.
"Introducting...the WiMax iPad.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166824</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265021580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's theorised that Polynesians are descended from Taiwainese migrants, so it does make a little bit of sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's theorised that Polynesians are descended from Taiwainese migrants , so it does make a little bit of sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's theorised that Polynesians are descended from Taiwainese migrants, so it does make a little bit of sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164876</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, the customary argument in favor of Affirmative Action -- which is what you're talking about there -- is "we need to help them along because their minority screwed them, going through primary school".  Whether it applies in secondary education, it *certainly* doesn't apply in post-secondary, and I don't see that it applies on the job either.</p><p>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.  He just cares whether you get him out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , the customary argument in favor of Affirmative Action -- which is what you 're talking about there -- is " we need to help them along because their minority screwed them , going through primary school " .
Whether it applies in secondary education , it * certainly * does n't apply in post-secondary , and I do n't see that it applies on the job either.That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house does n't care that because you 're female , you ca n't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam .
He just cares whether you get him out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, the customary argument in favor of Affirmative Action -- which is what you're talking about there -- is "we need to help them along because their minority screwed them, going through primary school".
Whether it applies in secondary education, it *certainly* doesn't apply in post-secondary, and I don't see that it applies on the job either.That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.
He just cares whether you get him out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170410</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>cynyr</author>
	<datestamp>1265044140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>could be for upcoming products, see the speculation that they are going to be doing realtime voice translations. knowing they they started hiring 2 people from a large number of major language groups might lead you to assume they were going to release a translation app.</htmltext>
<tokenext>could be for upcoming products , see the speculation that they are going to be doing realtime voice translations .
knowing they they started hiring 2 people from a large number of major language groups might lead you to assume they were going to release a translation app .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>could be for upcoming products, see the speculation that they are going to be doing realtime voice translations.
knowing they they started hiring 2 people from a large number of major language groups might lead you to assume they were going to release a translation app.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</id>
	<title>Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266341520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field, doesn't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest? Shouldn't they be able to do so, even if it results in skewed racial statistics?</p><p>It's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest, even when those actions do nothing to harm others.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field , does n't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest ?
Should n't they be able to do so , even if it results in skewed racial statistics ? It 's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest , even when those actions do nothing to harm others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field, doesn't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest?
Shouldn't they be able to do so, even if it results in skewed racial statistics?It's pretty bad that the government has created an atmosphere where people are ashamed of acting in their own self-interest, even when those actions do nothing to harm others.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</id>
	<title>It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266341520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the H1Bs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the H1Bs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the H1Bs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165596</id>
	<title>umm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>a trade secret that cannot be released. So do Apple, Yahoo, Oracle, and <b>Applied Materials.</b></p> </div><p>...who?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a trade secret that can not be released .
So do Apple , Yahoo , Oracle , and Applied Materials .
...who ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a trade secret that cannot be released.
So do Apple, Yahoo, Oracle, and Applied Materials.
...who?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165036</id>
	<title>Oompa-Loompas!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I knew it! They have Oompa-Loompas! That explains a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew it !
They have Oompa-Loompas !
That explains a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I knew it!
They have Oompa-Loompas!
That explains a lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31216028</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>ErikZ</author>
	<datestamp>1266687000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been thinking about the subject a lot lately, and I have a theory.</p><p>You rarely get jobs by putting in your resume at some job board site. You have to do it through your contacts. People you know or socialize with.</p><p>If you're not socializing with people of other races, and a job opens up, the people you end up telling will be the same race as you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been thinking about the subject a lot lately , and I have a theory.You rarely get jobs by putting in your resume at some job board site .
You have to do it through your contacts .
People you know or socialize with.If you 're not socializing with people of other races , and a job opens up , the people you end up telling will be the same race as you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been thinking about the subject a lot lately, and I have a theory.You rarely get jobs by putting in your resume at some job board site.
You have to do it through your contacts.
People you know or socialize with.If you're not socializing with people of other races, and a job opens up, the people you end up telling will be the same race as you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170142</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>stdarg</author>
	<datestamp>1265043180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've always been under the impression that top-tier schools are very friendly to low-income students and particularly to certain minorities (blacks and more recently latinos). For instance, Harvard provides free education to students with a family income below $60k/year. Their <a href="http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news-and-notices/news/press-releases/admissions-03302009.shtml" title="harvard.edu">2009 admissions</a> [harvard.edu] had "A record 10.9 percent<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... from Latino backgrounds, 10.8 percent are African Americans". I'm sure I don't need to show you statistics that those percentages are way over-representative compared to black performance metrics on standardized tests, GPA, likelihood of being #1 in the high school graduating class, etc.</p><p>Maybe not all the top schools are as friendly as Harvard, but I know there are similar stats and programs for many of them regarding financial aid and the admissions process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always been under the impression that top-tier schools are very friendly to low-income students and particularly to certain minorities ( blacks and more recently latinos ) .
For instance , Harvard provides free education to students with a family income below $ 60k/year .
Their 2009 admissions [ harvard.edu ] had " A record 10.9 percent ... from Latino backgrounds , 10.8 percent are African Americans " .
I 'm sure I do n't need to show you statistics that those percentages are way over-representative compared to black performance metrics on standardized tests , GPA , likelihood of being # 1 in the high school graduating class , etc.Maybe not all the top schools are as friendly as Harvard , but I know there are similar stats and programs for many of them regarding financial aid and the admissions process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always been under the impression that top-tier schools are very friendly to low-income students and particularly to certain minorities (blacks and more recently latinos).
For instance, Harvard provides free education to students with a family income below $60k/year.
Their 2009 admissions [harvard.edu] had "A record 10.9 percent ... from Latino backgrounds, 10.8 percent are African Americans".
I'm sure I don't need to show you statistics that those percentages are way over-representative compared to black performance metrics on standardized tests, GPA, likelihood of being #1 in the high school graduating class, etc.Maybe not all the top schools are as friendly as Harvard, but I know there are similar stats and programs for many of them regarding financial aid and the admissions process.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165046</id>
	<title>Re:Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So, let me get this straight.  A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data.  The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data.  On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?</p><p>Oh, and if anyone says, "Journalists are a sort of magical, pure source of good in our society, white knights protecting the people," that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era.</p></div><p>No good can come of this? I wonder how successful Google would be if more people decided that no good could come of openness and the dissemination of information. I can think of some good that would come of this: An analysis of why there are so few female engineers at these firms? Why a leading american companies are hiring very large amounts of foreign nationals?</p><p>In fact the only thing this could damage is Google's false "Don't be evil." image crap.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , let me get this straight .
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies , trying to force them to disclose private data .
The media company is doing this purely out of malice , as there is no good that can come from release of this data .
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable ? Oh , and if anyone says , " Journalists are a sort of magical , pure source of good in our society , white knights protecting the people , " that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era.No good can come of this ?
I wonder how successful Google would be if more people decided that no good could come of openness and the dissemination of information .
I can think of some good that would come of this : An analysis of why there are so few female engineers at these firms ?
Why a leading american companies are hiring very large amounts of foreign nationals ? In fact the only thing this could damage is Google 's false " Do n't be evil .
" image crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, let me get this straight.
A media company wages an 18-month lawsuit against private companies, trying to force them to disclose private data.
The media company is doing this purely out of malice, as there is no good that can come from release of this data.
On what planet is this sort of thing acceptable?Oh, and if anyone says, "Journalists are a sort of magical, pure source of good in our society, white knights protecting the people," that attitude belongs back in the Cronkite era.No good can come of this?
I wonder how successful Google would be if more people decided that no good could come of openness and the dissemination of information.
I can think of some good that would come of this: An analysis of why there are so few female engineers at these firms?
Why a leading american companies are hiring very large amounts of foreign nationals?In fact the only thing this could damage is Google's false "Don't be evil.
" image crap.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31173434</id>
	<title>Re:Hire based on qualifications</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265053320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry?</p><p>Black woman that LOVES computers here!</p><p>I've had computers since the mid-80's (of the "XT, no hard disk, dual 360k floppy, monochrome monitor, Hercules graphics" type). My "online" experiences started with a 300 baud modem to access BBSs, my first "forums" were freenets and IRC chats, I had to know UNIX commands to get around at FTP and telnet sites.  Everything was text-based. A knowledge of DOS was mandatory, etc. You get the picture...</p><p>I now spend most of my free time trying fooling with hardware, trying to learn programming languages, etc. In college, I majored in CIS. I'm a big Linux fan, and even had Yggdrasil Linux in the mid-90's, which I think may have been the first live Linux distribution.</p><p>Oh, and I did hardware/software support (then programming) for most of the 90's for a major corporation. Bottom line is, what started as a hobby for me in the mid-80's became a vocation and an educational path for me. I guess it's even an obsession. Don't think that people like me aren't out there.</p><p>Also, I take issue with your "temperament" comment, but you're allowed to have your own opinion, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry ? Black woman that LOVES computers here ! I 've had computers since the mid-80 's ( of the " XT , no hard disk , dual 360k floppy , monochrome monitor , Hercules graphics " type ) .
My " online " experiences started with a 300 baud modem to access BBSs , my first " forums " were freenets and IRC chats , I had to know UNIX commands to get around at FTP and telnet sites .
Everything was text-based .
A knowledge of DOS was mandatory , etc .
You get the picture...I now spend most of my free time trying fooling with hardware , trying to learn programming languages , etc .
In college , I majored in CIS .
I 'm a big Linux fan , and even had Yggdrasil Linux in the mid-90 's , which I think may have been the first live Linux distribution.Oh , and I did hardware/software support ( then programming ) for most of the 90 's for a major corporation .
Bottom line is , what started as a hobby for me in the mid-80 's became a vocation and an educational path for me .
I guess it 's even an obsession .
Do n't think that people like me are n't out there.Also , I take issue with your " temperament " comment , but you 're allowed to have your own opinion , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry?Black woman that LOVES computers here!I've had computers since the mid-80's (of the "XT, no hard disk, dual 360k floppy, monochrome monitor, Hercules graphics" type).
My "online" experiences started with a 300 baud modem to access BBSs, my first "forums" were freenets and IRC chats, I had to know UNIX commands to get around at FTP and telnet sites.
Everything was text-based.
A knowledge of DOS was mandatory, etc.
You get the picture...I now spend most of my free time trying fooling with hardware, trying to learn programming languages, etc.
In college, I majored in CIS.
I'm a big Linux fan, and even had Yggdrasil Linux in the mid-90's, which I think may have been the first live Linux distribution.Oh, and I did hardware/software support (then programming) for most of the 90's for a major corporation.
Bottom line is, what started as a hobby for me in the mid-80's became a vocation and an educational path for me.
I guess it's even an obsession.
Don't think that people like me aren't out there.Also, I take issue with your "temperament" comment, but you're allowed to have your own opinion, of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165682</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266347640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The government has imposed specific equal opportunity laws (which I think are moronic and fucked in the head), but either everyone follows them rigidly or no one does. You can't have just one company ignoring the rules to gain a benefit over its competitors who are obeying the laws.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The government has imposed specific equal opportunity laws ( which I think are moronic and fucked in the head ) , but either everyone follows them rigidly or no one does .
You ca n't have just one company ignoring the rules to gain a benefit over its competitors who are obeying the laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government has imposed specific equal opportunity laws (which I think are moronic and fucked in the head), but either everyone follows them rigidly or no one does.
You can't have just one company ignoring the rules to gain a benefit over its competitors who are obeying the laws.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166938</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265022840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are most probably wrong.</p><p>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.html<br>From the above link;<br>One of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group. You want to cry hearing that figure. I mean, it's so terrible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are most probably wrong.http : //www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.htmlFrom the above link ; One of the most disturbing , I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS , on average--it 's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group .
You want to cry hearing that figure .
I mean , it 's so terrible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are most probably wrong.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.htmlFrom the above link;One of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group.
You want to cry hearing that figure.
I mean, it's so terrible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164978</id>
	<title>Re:Business Strategy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ?   In this context, how is that not racist?</p></div><p>No,</p><p>What they are saying is that by looking at the racial makeup of Google employees you can figure out what they are going to be doing next, or what markets they are moving into next, or at least they use that information to figure that out about their competitors.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ ?
In this context , how is that not racist ? No,What they are saying is that by looking at the racial makeup of Google employees you can figure out what they are going to be doing next , or what markets they are moving into next , or at least they use that information to figure that out about their competitors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is Google saying their business strategy actually differs based on the people they employ?
In this context, how is that not racist?No,What they are saying is that by looking at the racial makeup of Google employees you can figure out what they are going to be doing next, or what markets they are moving into next, or at least they use that information to figure that out about their competitors.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165270</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field, doesn't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest? Shouldn't they be able to do so, even if it results in skewed racial statistics?</p></div><p>Why do you think that racial statistics would be skewed if the best and brightest were selected?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field , does n't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest ?
Should n't they be able to do so , even if it results in skewed racial statistics ? Why do you think that racial statistics would be skewed if the best and brightest were selected ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Google and Apple want to succeed in their field, doesn't it behoove them to hire the best and brightest?
Shouldn't they be able to do so, even if it results in skewed racial statistics?Why do you think that racial statistics would be skewed if the best and brightest were selected?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165940</id>
	<title>Re:Big Deal</title>
	<author>LordLucless</author>
	<datestamp>1266350040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're at a "very good" university, then probably the reason is because black people are more likely to be unable to afford the truly ludicrous fees the more prestigious institutions tend to charge.<br>
<br>
Asking for famous black mathematicians is a bit disingenuous: given that they've only really been allowed into tertiary institutions in the last ~50 years, they've had less chance to produce recognisable genuis than other racial groups, in addition to the economic disadvantages.<br>
<br>
Of course, if you want to expand your definition of "black" to include Indians or Arabs, you'll find plenty of influential mathematicians.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're at a " very good " university , then probably the reason is because black people are more likely to be unable to afford the truly ludicrous fees the more prestigious institutions tend to charge .
Asking for famous black mathematicians is a bit disingenuous : given that they 've only really been allowed into tertiary institutions in the last ~ 50 years , they 've had less chance to produce recognisable genuis than other racial groups , in addition to the economic disadvantages .
Of course , if you want to expand your definition of " black " to include Indians or Arabs , you 'll find plenty of influential mathematicians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're at a "very good" university, then probably the reason is because black people are more likely to be unable to afford the truly ludicrous fees the more prestigious institutions tend to charge.
Asking for famous black mathematicians is a bit disingenuous: given that they've only really been allowed into tertiary institutions in the last ~50 years, they've had less chance to produce recognisable genuis than other racial groups, in addition to the economic disadvantages.
Of course, if you want to expand your definition of "black" to include Indians or Arabs, you'll find plenty of influential mathematicians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170782</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>PPalmgren</author>
	<datestamp>1265045460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is common among all companies I've worked for, from Banks to Transportation to Retail.  Executives between 40 and 65 went to school between 1965 and 1985, during and right after resolving major descrimination issues.  It will take much more time to balance out than this.  The system is being corrected from the bottom up, and as such, it will take many more generations for these numbers to change significantly, as long as people are hired on merit rather than equality (and I'm glad they are).</p><p>I'd also like to point out that Exec diversity can not be taken from that industries' diversity.  Execs are more likely to be PHB MBAs than industry experts who got their hands dirty at the entry level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is common among all companies I 've worked for , from Banks to Transportation to Retail .
Executives between 40 and 65 went to school between 1965 and 1985 , during and right after resolving major descrimination issues .
It will take much more time to balance out than this .
The system is being corrected from the bottom up , and as such , it will take many more generations for these numbers to change significantly , as long as people are hired on merit rather than equality ( and I 'm glad they are ) .I 'd also like to point out that Exec diversity can not be taken from that industries ' diversity .
Execs are more likely to be PHB MBAs than industry experts who got their hands dirty at the entry level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is common among all companies I've worked for, from Banks to Transportation to Retail.
Executives between 40 and 65 went to school between 1965 and 1985, during and right after resolving major descrimination issues.
It will take much more time to balance out than this.
The system is being corrected from the bottom up, and as such, it will take many more generations for these numbers to change significantly, as long as people are hired on merit rather than equality (and I'm glad they are).I'd also like to point out that Exec diversity can not be taken from that industries' diversity.
Execs are more likely to be PHB MBAs than industry experts who got their hands dirty at the entry level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165386</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>electrons\_are\_brave</author>
	<datestamp>1266345360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.  He just cares whether you get him out.</p></div><p>Relax, the guy passed out on the floor of the burning building will be saved!  All firefighters have to pass fitness and strength testing. <a href="http://www.topendsports.com/testing/forces-fire-fighters.htm" title="topendsports.com">http://www.topendsports.com/testing/forces-fire-fighters.htm</a> [topendsports.com] </p><p>

What you seem to be saying is that ALL women should be excluded from firefighting just because MOST women couldn't pass the entry exams. Most men couldn't pass the exams either.</p><p>

Sure, given the natural differences between the average man and woman, men will always outnumber women in jobs needing strength. </p><p>

But you shouldn't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women. It's unfair and discriminatory</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house does n't care that because you 're female , you ca n't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam .
He just cares whether you get him out.Relax , the guy passed out on the floor of the burning building will be saved !
All firefighters have to pass fitness and strength testing .
http : //www.topendsports.com/testing/forces-fire-fighters.htm [ topendsports.com ] What you seem to be saying is that ALL women should be excluded from firefighting just because MOST women could n't pass the entry exams .
Most men could n't pass the exams either .
Sure , given the natural differences between the average man and woman , men will always outnumber women in jobs needing strength .
But you should n't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women .
It 's unfair and discriminatory</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That guy passed out on the floor of the burning house doesn't care that because you're female, you can't meet the weight-lifting requirements of the firefighter exam.
He just cares whether you get him out.Relax, the guy passed out on the floor of the burning building will be saved!
All firefighters have to pass fitness and strength testing.
http://www.topendsports.com/testing/forces-fire-fighters.htm [topendsports.com] 

What you seem to be saying is that ALL women should be excluded from firefighting just because MOST women couldn't pass the entry exams.
Most men couldn't pass the exams either.
Sure, given the natural differences between the average man and woman, men will always outnumber women in jobs needing strength.
But you shouldn't apply infomation about the average man or women to every man or women.
It's unfair and discriminatory
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168164</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>bsDaemon</author>
	<datestamp>1265035560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who decides what the "reasonable" level of "international mobility in the labor market" is?  How come capital can and does (in fact, MUST, for capitalism to sustain itself -- there is no such thing as "Capitalism in One Country," after all...) move across national borders all the time, but for some reason we assume that workers have to stay put?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who decides what the " reasonable " level of " international mobility in the labor market " is ?
How come capital can and does ( in fact , MUST , for capitalism to sustain itself -- there is no such thing as " Capitalism in One Country , " after all... ) move across national borders all the time , but for some reason we assume that workers have to stay put ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who decides what the "reasonable" level of "international mobility in the labor market" is?
How come capital can and does (in fact, MUST, for capitalism to sustain itself -- there is no such thing as "Capitalism in One Country," after all...) move across national borders all the time, but for some reason we assume that workers have to stay put?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165318</id>
	<title>Wow Google.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>|In earlier Congressional testimony, Google's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had."</p><p>
&nbsp; It had a lots of Indians also, Do we not attempt to make  Noise??<br>
&nbsp; and They work far better..<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We see some of them in presenting WAVE, Chrome, earth, and every Open source contri by Google etc etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>| In earlier Congressional testimony , Google 's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had .
"   It had a lots of Indians also , Do we not attempt to make Noise ? ?
  and They work far better. .                 We see some of them in presenting WAVE , Chrome , earth , and every Open source contri by Google etc etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>|In earlier Congressional testimony, Google's top HR exec dodged the question of how many African-American employees the company had.
"
  It had a lots of Indians also, Do we not attempt to make  Noise??
  and They work far better..
                We see some of them in presenting WAVE, Chrome, earth, and every Open source contri by Google etc etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165898</id>
	<title>Re:leave it to the /. dopes</title>
	<author>PaulMeigh</author>
	<datestamp>1266349620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AC post of the week. Mod up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AC post of the week .
Mod up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AC post of the week.
Mod up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165788</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165338</id>
	<title>Three hypotheses for imbalance in ethnicity</title>
	<author>Animal Farm Pig</author>
	<datestamp>1266345060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that, if Google were to release statistics, those statistic would show some kind of imbalance in workforce based around ethnicity. I can see a few different possibilities for this.
</p><p>Perhaps Google is racist in hiring. I doubt it.
</p><p>Perhaps certain ethnic groups are inherently more capable of the kind of things needed to get a job with Google. I doubt this also.
</p><p>Perhaps our society is structured in such a way that people born into certain ethnic groups are less likely to get the credentials and skills needed to get a job at Google. If this were the case, you'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment, poverty, and incarceration based on ethnicity. Of course, that couldn't be the case. This is America, after all. We're a color-blind, post-racial society. Everyone is equal here.
</p><p>So, that's what I can see. Since it can't be any of the three hypotheses I've suggested, it must be something else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's pretend , for the sake of argument , that , if Google were to release statistics , those statistic would show some kind of imbalance in workforce based around ethnicity .
I can see a few different possibilities for this .
Perhaps Google is racist in hiring .
I doubt it .
Perhaps certain ethnic groups are inherently more capable of the kind of things needed to get a job with Google .
I doubt this also .
Perhaps our society is structured in such a way that people born into certain ethnic groups are less likely to get the credentials and skills needed to get a job at Google .
If this were the case , you 'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment , poverty , and incarceration based on ethnicity .
Of course , that could n't be the case .
This is America , after all .
We 're a color-blind , post-racial society .
Everyone is equal here .
So , that 's what I can see .
Since it ca n't be any of the three hypotheses I 've suggested , it must be something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that, if Google were to release statistics, those statistic would show some kind of imbalance in workforce based around ethnicity.
I can see a few different possibilities for this.
Perhaps Google is racist in hiring.
I doubt it.
Perhaps certain ethnic groups are inherently more capable of the kind of things needed to get a job with Google.
I doubt this also.
Perhaps our society is structured in such a way that people born into certain ethnic groups are less likely to get the credentials and skills needed to get a job at Google.
If this were the case, you'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment, poverty, and incarceration based on ethnicity.
Of course, that couldn't be the case.
This is America, after all.
We're a color-blind, post-racial society.
Everyone is equal here.
So, that's what I can see.
Since it can't be any of the three hypotheses I've suggested, it must be something else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167780</id>
	<title>The Chocolate Factory</title>
	<author>SavvyPlayer</author>
	<datestamp>1265032860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bottom line: race and gender *do* matter. What would become of our beloved Chocolate Factory if it became known that Willy Wonka exclusively used male Oompa Loompas in his production lines?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bottom line : race and gender * do * matter .
What would become of our beloved Chocolate Factory if it became known that Willy Wonka exclusively used male Oompa Loompas in his production lines ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bottom line: race and gender *do* matter.
What would become of our beloved Chocolate Factory if it became known that Willy Wonka exclusively used male Oompa Loompas in his production lines?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165894</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>LordLucless</author>
	<datestamp>1266349560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps if their competitors know that Google's recently increased it's hiring of Indian developers, they might be trying to expand their market in India?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps if their competitors know that Google 's recently increased it 's hiring of Indian developers , they might be trying to expand their market in India ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps if their competitors know that Google's recently increased it's hiring of Indian developers, they might be trying to expand their market in India?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166252</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>haruharaharu</author>
	<datestamp>1265014800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How much of this is cultural vs. genetic? I would argue that when we talk about race, we're really talking about cultural groups that happen to have visual identifiers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much of this is cultural vs. genetic ? I would argue that when we talk about race , we 're really talking about cultural groups that happen to have visual identifiers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much of this is cultural vs. genetic? I would argue that when we talk about race, we're really talking about cultural groups that happen to have visual identifiers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165166</id>
	<title>breakdown</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they just don't want us to know that it's about 40\%borg and 15\%greys</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they just do n't want us to know that it 's about 40 \ % borg and 15 \ % greys</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they just don't want us to know that it's about 40\%borg and 15\%greys</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166738</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Rennt</author>
	<datestamp>1265020800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"breed" is a poor choice of word in this context. It taints your post with the air of eugenics (and notions of superiority).</p><p>I don't think was your intention but it is going to alienate readers from the outset.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" breed " is a poor choice of word in this context .
It taints your post with the air of eugenics ( and notions of superiority ) .I do n't think was your intention but it is going to alienate readers from the outset .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"breed" is a poor choice of word in this context.
It taints your post with the air of eugenics (and notions of superiority).I don't think was your intention but it is going to alienate readers from the outset.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165678</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1266347640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The differences in human breeds can show up at the extremes, even if they don't show up significantly for the averages. And for many purposes it's the extremes that count and not the averages.<br><br>For example:<br><br>Even though the average "white" guy is not very much slower than the average "black" guy, in the 100 metre sprint world records, it's the fastest members that count, not the average or the slowest. There are very few sprinters not of West African lineage (and nonmale) that have run 100 metre races in less than 10 seconds.<br><br>Similarly nobody remembers the 100th person who proved E=MC^2. The Ashkenazi Jews have disproportionately more top scientists. Even if they have higher incidences of genetic disorders it doesn't matter for the "top scientists" criteria.<br><br>Why do I use the term breed instead of race? There are certainly breeds of humans even though they may not be as distinct as those for dogs. Race on the other hand would typically group diverse African breeds together (e.g. the Mbuti with the Zulus). Which is like grouping a chihuahua with a greyhound if they have the same colour fur, or came from the same country. It's actually correct for some cases but ridiculous in other cases.<br><br>Race tends to be more ambiguous, political, cultural and contextual. You have situations like the UK people using "Asian" to mean the South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis etc), whereas the US people would tend to use "Asian" to mean the East Asians. The US at some point even had some strange category called "Asian or Pacific Islander"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The differences in human breeds can show up at the extremes , even if they do n't show up significantly for the averages .
And for many purposes it 's the extremes that count and not the averages.For example : Even though the average " white " guy is not very much slower than the average " black " guy , in the 100 metre sprint world records , it 's the fastest members that count , not the average or the slowest .
There are very few sprinters not of West African lineage ( and nonmale ) that have run 100 metre races in less than 10 seconds.Similarly nobody remembers the 100th person who proved E = MC ^ 2 .
The Ashkenazi Jews have disproportionately more top scientists .
Even if they have higher incidences of genetic disorders it does n't matter for the " top scientists " criteria.Why do I use the term breed instead of race ?
There are certainly breeds of humans even though they may not be as distinct as those for dogs .
Race on the other hand would typically group diverse African breeds together ( e.g .
the Mbuti with the Zulus ) .
Which is like grouping a chihuahua with a greyhound if they have the same colour fur , or came from the same country .
It 's actually correct for some cases but ridiculous in other cases.Race tends to be more ambiguous , political , cultural and contextual .
You have situations like the UK people using " Asian " to mean the South Asians ( Indians , Pakistanis , Bangladeshis etc ) , whereas the US people would tend to use " Asian " to mean the East Asians .
The US at some point even had some strange category called " Asian or Pacific Islander " ; ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The differences in human breeds can show up at the extremes, even if they don't show up significantly for the averages.
And for many purposes it's the extremes that count and not the averages.For example:Even though the average "white" guy is not very much slower than the average "black" guy, in the 100 metre sprint world records, it's the fastest members that count, not the average or the slowest.
There are very few sprinters not of West African lineage (and nonmale) that have run 100 metre races in less than 10 seconds.Similarly nobody remembers the 100th person who proved E=MC^2.
The Ashkenazi Jews have disproportionately more top scientists.
Even if they have higher incidences of genetic disorders it doesn't matter for the "top scientists" criteria.Why do I use the term breed instead of race?
There are certainly breeds of humans even though they may not be as distinct as those for dogs.
Race on the other hand would typically group diverse African breeds together (e.g.
the Mbuti with the Zulus).
Which is like grouping a chihuahua with a greyhound if they have the same colour fur, or came from the same country.
It's actually correct for some cases but ridiculous in other cases.Race tends to be more ambiguous, political, cultural and contextual.
You have situations like the UK people using "Asian" to mean the South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis etc), whereas the US people would tend to use "Asian" to mean the East Asians.
The US at some point even had some strange category called "Asian or Pacific Islander" ;).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164992</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266342900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Damn. That should read "you can watch the concentrations <b>of</b> metabolites".<br> <br>

Also, the other possibility for high cocaine numbers is that you are currently spying on <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/16/broadcom\_ceo\_charges/" title="theregister.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Broadcom</a> [theregister.co.uk]...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn .
That should read " you can watch the concentrations of metabolites " .
Also , the other possibility for high cocaine numbers is that you are currently spying on Broadcom [ theregister.co.uk ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn.
That should read "you can watch the concentrations of metabolites".
Also, the other possibility for high cocaine numbers is that you are currently spying on Broadcom [theregister.co.uk]...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1266348120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not usually one to demand any particular degree of "diversity" of companies, but it <i>is</i> rather immediately noticeable how <a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/" title="apple.com">Apple's executives</a> [apple.com] all come from the same demographics: white males between 40 and 65. You'd think there'd be at least <i>one</i> person from some other demographic--- it's not like this is the uniformity you see if you walk into a CS or engineering department at a university (ever seen one without a single asian?).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not usually one to demand any particular degree of " diversity " of companies , but it is rather immediately noticeable how Apple 's executives [ apple.com ] all come from the same demographics : white males between 40 and 65 .
You 'd think there 'd be at least one person from some other demographic--- it 's not like this is the uniformity you see if you walk into a CS or engineering department at a university ( ever seen one without a single asian ?
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not usually one to demand any particular degree of "diversity" of companies, but it is rather immediately noticeable how Apple's executives [apple.com] all come from the same demographics: white males between 40 and 65.
You'd think there'd be at least one person from some other demographic--- it's not like this is the uniformity you see if you walk into a CS or engineering department at a university (ever seen one without a single asian?
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31171142</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1265046480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>They can't be hiding something that's already out there in plain sight.</i></p><p>Did you ever read Edgar Allen Poe's <i>The Scarlet Letter?</i></p><p><i>True, the statistics are a couple years behind the current year</i></p><p>How do we know they didn't just quadruple the number of H1Bs from a couple of years ago?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They ca n't be hiding something that 's already out there in plain sight.Did you ever read Edgar Allen Poe 's The Scarlet Letter ? True , the statistics are a couple years behind the current yearHow do we know they did n't just quadruple the number of H1Bs from a couple of years ago ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can't be hiding something that's already out there in plain sight.Did you ever read Edgar Allen Poe's The Scarlet Letter?True, the statistics are a couple years behind the current yearHow do we know they didn't just quadruple the number of H1Bs from a couple of years ago?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165922</id>
	<title>Oh this is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266349860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Firstly, Google never records the race of their employees unless they fill out an OPTIONAL box on the forms at hiring time. They don't actually HAVE this data to share.</p><p>Secondly, walking around the Google campus, it's definitely not just a ton of white men. There are lots of women (and darn hot ones...), and a huge amount of East and South Asians and South Americans.</p><p>Thirdly, Google is one of the most merit-based companies in existence. Any conclusions based on the race profiles would be completely misguided. Google doesn't care if you're black or white, straight or gay, male or female... there's only one thing that matters - competence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Firstly , Google never records the race of their employees unless they fill out an OPTIONAL box on the forms at hiring time .
They do n't actually HAVE this data to share.Secondly , walking around the Google campus , it 's definitely not just a ton of white men .
There are lots of women ( and darn hot ones... ) , and a huge amount of East and South Asians and South Americans.Thirdly , Google is one of the most merit-based companies in existence .
Any conclusions based on the race profiles would be completely misguided .
Google does n't care if you 're black or white , straight or gay , male or female... there 's only one thing that matters - competence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firstly, Google never records the race of their employees unless they fill out an OPTIONAL box on the forms at hiring time.
They don't actually HAVE this data to share.Secondly, walking around the Google campus, it's definitely not just a ton of white men.
There are lots of women (and darn hot ones...), and a huge amount of East and South Asians and South Americans.Thirdly, Google is one of the most merit-based companies in existence.
Any conclusions based on the race profiles would be completely misguided.
Google doesn't care if you're black or white, straight or gay, male or female... there's only one thing that matters - competence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170618</id>
	<title>Re:Three hypotheses for imbalance in ethnicity</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1265044860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fourth hypothesis: Google hires lots and lots of foreigners from countries where most people belong to a race that is uncommon in America.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fourth hypothesis : Google hires lots and lots of foreigners from countries where most people belong to a race that is uncommon in America .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fourth hypothesis: Google hires lots and lots of foreigners from countries where most people belong to a race that is uncommon in America.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165660</id>
	<title>Re:we MUST hide (and protect) our african american</title>
	<author>Virtual\_Raider</author>
	<datestamp>1266347580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some people need to fit everything in tight boundaries either because that's what they learned from their environment, or because that's just the way they think. There isn't absolutely any reason for a company to keep track of your skin and hair colour like the AC above mentioned. A black man, a red man and a white man for instance should all pretty much know the same basic stuff if the three of them come forward with a diploma that reads "physician", or "nuts and bolts engineer", or any other label. Ideally one would differentiate them by the breadth of their experience.</p><p>Asking colours is just an attempt at profiling, at trying to tie assumptions to them. Even if statistics showed that there are more blacks or browns than other shades in jail, the one applying before isn't one of them since he's there and the bloke doesn't share those traits assuming he clears the background checks that everybody is supposed to be subjected to (there <strong>are</strong> white crooks, thieves and convicted murderers).</p><p>Maybe I live in a different world...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people need to fit everything in tight boundaries either because that 's what they learned from their environment , or because that 's just the way they think .
There is n't absolutely any reason for a company to keep track of your skin and hair colour like the AC above mentioned .
A black man , a red man and a white man for instance should all pretty much know the same basic stuff if the three of them come forward with a diploma that reads " physician " , or " nuts and bolts engineer " , or any other label .
Ideally one would differentiate them by the breadth of their experience.Asking colours is just an attempt at profiling , at trying to tie assumptions to them .
Even if statistics showed that there are more blacks or browns than other shades in jail , the one applying before is n't one of them since he 's there and the bloke does n't share those traits assuming he clears the background checks that everybody is supposed to be subjected to ( there are white crooks , thieves and convicted murderers ) .Maybe I live in a different world.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people need to fit everything in tight boundaries either because that's what they learned from their environment, or because that's just the way they think.
There isn't absolutely any reason for a company to keep track of your skin and hair colour like the AC above mentioned.
A black man, a red man and a white man for instance should all pretty much know the same basic stuff if the three of them come forward with a diploma that reads "physician", or "nuts and bolts engineer", or any other label.
Ideally one would differentiate them by the breadth of their experience.Asking colours is just an attempt at profiling, at trying to tie assumptions to them.
Even if statistics showed that there are more blacks or browns than other shades in jail, the one applying before isn't one of them since he's there and the bloke doesn't share those traits assuming he clears the background checks that everybody is supposed to be subjected to (there are white crooks, thieves and convicted murderers).Maybe I live in a different world...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165286</id>
	<title>Re:we MUST hide (and protect) our african american</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a black nerd, I agree that geek culture can be a turn off. I was always into science and math when I was growing up, but in junior high and high school I just didn't want to be around the other kids with the same interests in science. They were just so.. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">white and nerdy</a> [youtube.com]. But not in a funny way. We just didn't have the same social interests. It wasn't until I got to a mostly black university, that had black nerds with the same academic <i>and</i> social interests, that I could embrace my nerdery.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a black nerd , I agree that geek culture can be a turn off .
I was always into science and math when I was growing up , but in junior high and high school I just did n't want to be around the other kids with the same interests in science .
They were just so.. white and nerdy [ youtube.com ] .
But not in a funny way .
We just did n't have the same social interests .
It was n't until I got to a mostly black university , that had black nerds with the same academic and social interests , that I could embrace my nerdery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a black nerd, I agree that geek culture can be a turn off.
I was always into science and math when I was growing up, but in junior high and high school I just didn't want to be around the other kids with the same interests in science.
They were just so.. white and nerdy [youtube.com].
But not in a funny way.
We just didn't have the same social interests.
It wasn't until I got to a mostly black university, that had black nerds with the same academic and social interests, that I could embrace my nerdery.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165228</id>
	<title>Good for them.</title>
	<author>i-like-burritos</author>
	<datestamp>1266344400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why should it matter anyway?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should it matter anyway ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why should it matter anyway?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168602</id>
	<title>Sun?</title>
	<author>guruevi</author>
	<datestamp>1265037660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sun has recently been purchased by Oracle. Oracle doesn't and Sun did (past tense) give up data.</p><p>Either way, these numbers need not necessarily be public does it? All it does is give fodder to the racists and the anti-fanboys. The regulators should be able to review the data and make sure everyone is in compliance. I don't see the need for these numbers to be publicized, there is already too much "reverse" racism and feminism going around in this country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sun has recently been purchased by Oracle .
Oracle does n't and Sun did ( past tense ) give up data.Either way , these numbers need not necessarily be public does it ?
All it does is give fodder to the racists and the anti-fanboys .
The regulators should be able to review the data and make sure everyone is in compliance .
I do n't see the need for these numbers to be publicized , there is already too much " reverse " racism and feminism going around in this country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sun has recently been purchased by Oracle.
Oracle doesn't and Sun did (past tense) give up data.Either way, these numbers need not necessarily be public does it?
All it does is give fodder to the racists and the anti-fanboys.
The regulators should be able to review the data and make sure everyone is in compliance.
I don't see the need for these numbers to be publicized, there is already too much "reverse" racism and feminism going around in this country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31169152</id>
	<title>Problems without solutions</title>
	<author>hessian</author>
	<datestamp>1265039820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Race warfare and class warfare: they never go away. Maybe it's time to stop trying to make everyone get along, because we are radically different.</p><p>Diversity doesn't work. Not of religion, not of basic philosophy, not of intelligence, and not of race and ethnicity. Our modern deconstructive society can't see that, but observers of history can. Human beings have not fundamentally changed since the dawn of time.</p><p>And the same problems remain, without us learning. Maybe we're looking in the wrong place for solutions. Maybe diversity is one of these failures. Well, things to ponder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Race warfare and class warfare : they never go away .
Maybe it 's time to stop trying to make everyone get along , because we are radically different.Diversity does n't work .
Not of religion , not of basic philosophy , not of intelligence , and not of race and ethnicity .
Our modern deconstructive society ca n't see that , but observers of history can .
Human beings have not fundamentally changed since the dawn of time.And the same problems remain , without us learning .
Maybe we 're looking in the wrong place for solutions .
Maybe diversity is one of these failures .
Well , things to ponder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Race warfare and class warfare: they never go away.
Maybe it's time to stop trying to make everyone get along, because we are radically different.Diversity doesn't work.
Not of religion, not of basic philosophy, not of intelligence, and not of race and ethnicity.
Our modern deconstructive society can't see that, but observers of history can.
Human beings have not fundamentally changed since the dawn of time.And the same problems remain, without us learning.
Maybe we're looking in the wrong place for solutions.
Maybe diversity is one of these failures.
Well, things to ponder.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167786</id>
	<title>The statistics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265033040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 60\% Earthling (including 42\% Human, 10\% Monkey, 8\% Pigeon)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25\% Martian<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5\% Alpha Centaurian<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2\% African Alpha Centaurian<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8\% other</p><p>Investigations are ongoing whether African Alpha Centaurians have been discriminated against due to their skin color (greenish-yellowish) or their tentacles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>        60 \ % Earthling ( including 42 \ % Human , 10 \ % Monkey , 8 \ % Pigeon )         25 \ % Martian           5 \ % Alpha Centaurian           2 \ % African Alpha Centaurian           8 \ % otherInvestigations are ongoing whether African Alpha Centaurians have been discriminated against due to their skin color ( greenish-yellowish ) or their tentacles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
        60\% Earthling (including 42\% Human, 10\% Monkey, 8\% Pigeon)
        25\% Martian
          5\% Alpha Centaurian
          2\% African Alpha Centaurian
          8\% otherInvestigations are ongoing whether African Alpha Centaurians have been discriminated against due to their skin color (greenish-yellowish) or their tentacles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166628</id>
	<title>Re:Three hypotheses for imbalance in ethnicity</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1265019600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If this were the case, you'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment, poverty, and incarceration based on ethnicity.</p></div><p>Well, guess what...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this were the case , you 'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment , poverty , and incarceration based on ethnicity.Well , guess what.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this were the case, you'd likely also see disproportionate rates of unemployment, poverty, and incarceration based on ethnicity.Well, guess what...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165976</id>
	<title>Buzz Profile</title>
	<author>DavidD\_CA</author>
	<datestamp>1265054640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Duh.  Just peek at these company's Buzz profiles.</p><p>That'll give you all the private information you ever wanted!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Duh .
Just peek at these company 's Buzz profiles.That 'll give you all the private information you ever wanted !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Duh.
Just peek at these company's Buzz profiles.That'll give you all the private information you ever wanted!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165234</id>
	<title>Why only tho focus only on black and hispanics???</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266344400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of focusing on the overall diversity of the companies?</p><p>I live in Palo Alto and know several people who work for Apple, a handful at Google; and even interviewed at the latter a while back.  And I can guarantee that for every black or hispanic that these companies "lost", they gained two asians, an indian, and a gay or lesbian.</p><p>The merc is a ridiculous provincial little rag.  Everyone here knows it.  And that's why they knock up sensationalist nonsence like this story.</p><p>Trust me; the klan and aryan brotherhood are NOT going to be successful recruiting in Santa Clara Valley.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of focusing on the overall diversity of the companies ? I live in Palo Alto and know several people who work for Apple , a handful at Google ; and even interviewed at the latter a while back .
And I can guarantee that for every black or hispanic that these companies " lost " , they gained two asians , an indian , and a gay or lesbian.The merc is a ridiculous provincial little rag .
Everyone here knows it .
And that 's why they knock up sensationalist nonsence like this story.Trust me ; the klan and aryan brotherhood are NOT going to be successful recruiting in Santa Clara Valley .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of focusing on the overall diversity of the companies?I live in Palo Alto and know several people who work for Apple, a handful at Google; and even interviewed at the latter a while back.
And I can guarantee that for every black or hispanic that these companies "lost", they gained two asians, an indian, and a gay or lesbian.The merc is a ridiculous provincial little rag.
Everyone here knows it.
And that's why they knock up sensationalist nonsence like this story.Trust me; the klan and aryan brotherhood are NOT going to be successful recruiting in Santa Clara Valley.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165826</id>
	<title>Re:we MUST hide (and protect) our african american</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1266348900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder how many "white" Afrikaner South Africans in the USA have registered themselves as African American<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;). Some of them might be able to trace their line in Africa back to the 1600s.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how many " white " Afrikaner South Africans in the USA have registered themselves as African American ; ) .
Some of them might be able to trace their line in Africa back to the 1600s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how many "white" Afrikaner South Africans in the USA have registered themselves as African American ;).
Some of them might be able to trace their line in Africa back to the 1600s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165498</id>
	<title>Re:There is no such thing as race</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266346140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>My kingdom for mod points! Best comment on the subject I've seen in a long time. When its an open question I always write "human" on the race dotted line. Otherwise select white. Nobody has ever called me out on it (I am non-caucasic), and I really, really doubt they will. But I hope they do, I could use the suit money =D</htmltext>
<tokenext>My kingdom for mod points !
Best comment on the subject I 've seen in a long time .
When its an open question I always write " human " on the race dotted line .
Otherwise select white .
Nobody has ever called me out on it ( I am non-caucasic ) , and I really , really doubt they will .
But I hope they do , I could use the suit money = D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My kingdom for mod points!
Best comment on the subject I've seen in a long time.
When its an open question I always write "human" on the race dotted line.
Otherwise select white.
Nobody has ever called me out on it (I am non-caucasic), and I really, really doubt they will.
But I hope they do, I could use the suit money =D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164870</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165414</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>Virtual\_Raider</author>
	<datestamp>1266345600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think yours is the best post of the lot so far. Also, its a very well documented fact that the technology industries are primarily male (for whatever reason, don't get distracted). But a news outfit digging for dirt would be able to point at their stats and go "AHA! Females/Blacks/Whites/Browns/Yellows/Reds/Greens/Blues make up less than X percentage, foul play!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think yours is the best post of the lot so far .
Also , its a very well documented fact that the technology industries are primarily male ( for whatever reason , do n't get distracted ) .
But a news outfit digging for dirt would be able to point at their stats and go " AHA !
Females/Blacks/Whites/Browns/Yellows/Reds/Greens/Blues make up less than X percentage , foul play !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think yours is the best post of the lot so far.
Also, its a very well documented fact that the technology industries are primarily male (for whatever reason, don't get distracted).
But a news outfit digging for dirt would be able to point at their stats and go "AHA!
Females/Blacks/Whites/Browns/Yellows/Reds/Greens/Blues make up less than X percentage, foul play!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164854</id>
	<title>Google's CEO said it best</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266341940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>  If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't
  be doing it in the first place.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
What is Google hiding?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have something that you do n't want anyone to know , maybe you should n't be doing it in the first place .
What is Google hiding ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't
  be doing it in the first place.
What is Google hiding?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31183326</id>
	<title>Would show hiring trends</title>
	<author>hittjw</author>
	<datestamp>1266503460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Public release of race composition of Google, Apple, or other company employees would show market interests.  It would also show where outsourcing activity is happening (while the government has data on work location with employment tax, they don't have a picture of contract workers.)  Overall this is useful data for the government who is interested in local economic development, very useful for a competitor who is wondering how they keep labor rates so low.  Gender is not that useful in terms of competition.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Public release of race composition of Google , Apple , or other company employees would show market interests .
It would also show where outsourcing activity is happening ( while the government has data on work location with employment tax , they do n't have a picture of contract workers .
) Overall this is useful data for the government who is interested in local economic development , very useful for a competitor who is wondering how they keep labor rates so low .
Gender is not that useful in terms of competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Public release of race composition of Google, Apple, or other company employees would show market interests.
It would also show where outsourcing activity is happening (while the government has data on work location with employment tax, they don't have a picture of contract workers.
)  Overall this is useful data for the government who is interested in local economic development, very useful for a competitor who is wondering how they keep labor rates so low.
Gender is not that useful in terms of competition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166826</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265021580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.html<br>One of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group. You want to cry hearing that figure. I mean, it's so terrible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.htmlOne of the most disturbing , I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS , on average--it 's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group .
You want to cry hearing that figure .
I mean , it 's so terrible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/thernstrom.htmlOne of the most disturbing, I think perhaps the most disturbing fact in our whole book is that black students coming from families earning over 70,000 are doing worse on their SATS, on average--it's always on average--than white students from families in the lowest income group.
You want to cry hearing that figure.
I mean, it's so terrible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165098</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>PeanutButterBreath</author>
	<datestamp>1266343560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google is basically stipulating that race and gender are influential in its hiring process.  Seems like they've backed themselves in to a corner here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google is basically stipulating that race and gender are influential in its hiring process .
Seems like they 've backed themselves in to a corner here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google is basically stipulating that race and gender are influential in its hiring process.
Seems like they've backed themselves in to a corner here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166286</id>
	<title>Race?</title>
	<author>Kidbro</author>
	<datestamp>1265015520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where I live people would be baffled if a corporation even kept track of the "race" of its workforce, whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.<br>Is this something you folks actually keep on record? For what purposes, and what "races" are there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where I live people would be baffled if a corporation even kept track of the " race " of its workforce , whatever the fuck that 's supposed to mean.Is this something you folks actually keep on record ?
For what purposes , and what " races " are there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where I live people would be baffled if a corporation even kept track of the "race" of its workforce, whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.Is this something you folks actually keep on record?
For what purposes, and what "races" are there?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165024</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine?</p></div></blockquote><p>Too late.  If you search for "Shaft" in Google, the top result is the IMDB page for the 2000 remake, which no one wants to see.  Bing brings up the wikipedia page for the 1971 original.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine ? Too late .
If you search for " Shaft " in Google , the top result is the IMDB page for the 2000 remake , which no one wants to see .
Bing brings up the wikipedia page for the 1971 original .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does Google not want Microsoft to scoop them on their new blacksploitation search engine?Too late.
If you search for "Shaft" in Google, the top result is the IMDB page for the 2000 remake, which no one wants to see.
Bing brings up the wikipedia page for the 1971 original.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165444</id>
	<title>No Joke?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266345720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>More likely it'll prove <a href="http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html" title="google.com">this</a> [google.com] <b>wasn't</b> a joke.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More likely it 'll prove this [ google.com ] was n't a joke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More likely it'll prove this [google.com] wasn't a joke.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31168742</id>
	<title>They don't want to release the info because...</title>
	<author>rclandrum</author>
	<datestamp>1265038260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...any numbers they supply will be the wrong ones.  Regardless of what the numbers indicate, the companies will inevitably get beat up about it from some sector - either by the government, some minority rep with an agenda, or anyone that thinks they can gain some publicity by hammering on a large company.  There simply is no benefit whatsoever to releasing information about the racial or gender mix of your employees. None.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...any numbers they supply will be the wrong ones .
Regardless of what the numbers indicate , the companies will inevitably get beat up about it from some sector - either by the government , some minority rep with an agenda , or anyone that thinks they can gain some publicity by hammering on a large company .
There simply is no benefit whatsoever to releasing information about the racial or gender mix of your employees .
None .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...any numbers they supply will be the wrong ones.
Regardless of what the numbers indicate, the companies will inevitably get beat up about it from some sector - either by the government, some minority rep with an agenda, or anyone that thinks they can gain some publicity by hammering on a large company.
There simply is no benefit whatsoever to releasing information about the racial or gender mix of your employees.
None.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31179948</id>
	<title>Alien races</title>
	<author>Psaakyrn</author>
	<datestamp>1265041800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> They're just trying to hide the existence of aliens or Oompa-Loompas working in their lairs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're just trying to hide the existence of aliens or Oompa-Loompas working in their lairs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> They're just trying to hide the existence of aliens or Oompa-Loompas working in their lairs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170784</id>
	<title>Re:Trade Secret?</title>
	<author>tjb</author>
	<datestamp>1265045460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The same goes for Apple, except I've got it straight through the grapevine. My friend's interview was precisely 0\% about technical things and 100\% about whether he was interesting to hang around.</i></p><p>What?  I interviewed at Apple (input device group) and that was one of the hardest, longest, most technical interviews I have ever been through.</p><p>What was your friend interviewing for?  I could definitely see, say, SWQA caring more about attitude than anything else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same goes for Apple , except I 've got it straight through the grapevine .
My friend 's interview was precisely 0 \ % about technical things and 100 \ % about whether he was interesting to hang around.What ?
I interviewed at Apple ( input device group ) and that was one of the hardest , longest , most technical interviews I have ever been through.What was your friend interviewing for ?
I could definitely see , say , SWQA caring more about attitude than anything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same goes for Apple, except I've got it straight through the grapevine.
My friend's interview was precisely 0\% about technical things and 100\% about whether he was interesting to hang around.What?
I interviewed at Apple (input device group) and that was one of the hardest, longest, most technical interviews I have ever been through.What was your friend interviewing for?
I could definitely see, say, SWQA caring more about attitude than anything else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166686</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>The\_mad\_linguist</author>
	<datestamp>1265020320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, there are *some* averages where it shows up.</p><p>Typically in the form of things like lactose tolerance, alcohol tolerance, vitamin D absorption rates, that sort of thing.  You know, shit that doesn't actually matter that much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , there are * some * averages where it shows up.Typically in the form of things like lactose tolerance , alcohol tolerance , vitamin D absorption rates , that sort of thing .
You know , shit that does n't actually matter that much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, there are *some* averages where it shows up.Typically in the form of things like lactose tolerance, alcohol tolerance, vitamin D absorption rates, that sort of thing.
You know, shit that doesn't actually matter that much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170532</id>
	<title>I commend Google and Apple</title>
	<author>AthleteMusicianNerd</author>
	<datestamp>1265044560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's none of the Department of Labor's business who they decide to employ.  Google and Apple are a success.  The US government is a failure.  If the government weren't able to leech off of successful companies, they wouldn't even exist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's none of the Department of Labor 's business who they decide to employ .
Google and Apple are a success .
The US government is a failure .
If the government were n't able to leech off of successful companies , they would n't even exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's none of the Department of Labor's business who they decide to employ.
Google and Apple are a success.
The US government is a failure.
If the government weren't able to leech off of successful companies, they wouldn't even exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31166788</id>
	<title>Re:Why does race or gender matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265021280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.</p></div><p>Oh, come on. There is plenty of opportunities for intelligent minorities to finance their education in college.
</p><ul>
<li>You don't need to go to an Ivy League school to get a decent job. Computer Science department in the state university I'm attending (rank 50-80) regularly publishes the average salary of graduating seniors majoring in CS who secured a job (almost everyone who doesn't go to grad school). Last year it was around $50k - and this is for an entry-level position straight out of college.</li><li>If they're short on cash, a very good strategy is to get a 2-year degree from a community college first, and then transfer credits to the university. It is also easier to get into a CC, and prove your worth by getting good grades.</li><li>Being US citizens, they qualify for dirt cheap in-state tuition, and various federal aid (e.g. FAFSA, work-study programs, etc).</li><li>Being a minority, they qualify for a huge number of scholarships that are not available to white males (especially in CS and Engineering).</li><li>There is a large number of other funding opportunities. Our CS department gives a nice lump sum (approx. 1/3 of in-state tuition) every year to top X students in the department. I don't see any reason for an intelligent person to not being able to get good grades and become the top performer.</li><li>It is not a secret that colleges still prefer to admit minorities over equally qualified white males, even though racial quotas are supposed to be illegal.</li><li>To some of you who might say that these people often live in bad neighborhoods that foster "gang culture", so even smart kids are sucked into it: Often freshmen have to live on campus, so they get immersed into a learning community and have to break connections to places they were raised at. A rather interesting article <a href="http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/fryer/files/aw\_ednext.pdf" title="harvard.edu">(pdf)</a> [harvard.edu] on the "acting white" phenomenon that I recently read might be relevant to this discussion.</li></ul><p>
Yes, I'm bitter - perhaps that's because most of the benefits listed above didn't apply to me, and I still somehow managed to accomplish my goal of doing a good enough job as an undergrad to be accepted in a top 5 grad school. Upward mobility *does exist* if you're persistent (or desperate) enough.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas , are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus , even though they may be competitively intelligent , are n't able to make the most of it.Oh , come on .
There is plenty of opportunities for intelligent minorities to finance their education in college .
You do n't need to go to an Ivy League school to get a decent job .
Computer Science department in the state university I 'm attending ( rank 50-80 ) regularly publishes the average salary of graduating seniors majoring in CS who secured a job ( almost everyone who does n't go to grad school ) .
Last year it was around $ 50k - and this is for an entry-level position straight out of college.If they 're short on cash , a very good strategy is to get a 2-year degree from a community college first , and then transfer credits to the university .
It is also easier to get into a CC , and prove your worth by getting good grades.Being US citizens , they qualify for dirt cheap in-state tuition , and various federal aid ( e.g .
FAFSA , work-study programs , etc ) .Being a minority , they qualify for a huge number of scholarships that are not available to white males ( especially in CS and Engineering ) .There is a large number of other funding opportunities .
Our CS department gives a nice lump sum ( approx .
1/3 of in-state tuition ) every year to top X students in the department .
I do n't see any reason for an intelligent person to not being able to get good grades and become the top performer.It is not a secret that colleges still prefer to admit minorities over equally qualified white males , even though racial quotas are supposed to be illegal.To some of you who might say that these people often live in bad neighborhoods that foster " gang culture " , so even smart kids are sucked into it : Often freshmen have to live on campus , so they get immersed into a learning community and have to break connections to places they were raised at .
A rather interesting article ( pdf ) [ harvard.edu ] on the " acting white " phenomenon that I recently read might be relevant to this discussion .
Yes , I 'm bitter - perhaps that 's because most of the benefits listed above did n't apply to me , and I still somehow managed to accomplish my goal of doing a good enough job as an undergrad to be accepted in a top 5 grad school .
Upward mobility * does exist * if you 're persistent ( or desperate ) enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Possibly because some races are over-represented in the lower economic stratas, are unable to afford tertiary educations at top-tier institutions and thus, even though they may be competitively intelligent, aren't able to make the most of it.Oh, come on.
There is plenty of opportunities for intelligent minorities to finance their education in college.
You don't need to go to an Ivy League school to get a decent job.
Computer Science department in the state university I'm attending (rank 50-80) regularly publishes the average salary of graduating seniors majoring in CS who secured a job (almost everyone who doesn't go to grad school).
Last year it was around $50k - and this is for an entry-level position straight out of college.If they're short on cash, a very good strategy is to get a 2-year degree from a community college first, and then transfer credits to the university.
It is also easier to get into a CC, and prove your worth by getting good grades.Being US citizens, they qualify for dirt cheap in-state tuition, and various federal aid (e.g.
FAFSA, work-study programs, etc).Being a minority, they qualify for a huge number of scholarships that are not available to white males (especially in CS and Engineering).There is a large number of other funding opportunities.
Our CS department gives a nice lump sum (approx.
1/3 of in-state tuition) every year to top X students in the department.
I don't see any reason for an intelligent person to not being able to get good grades and become the top performer.It is not a secret that colleges still prefer to admit minorities over equally qualified white males, even though racial quotas are supposed to be illegal.To some of you who might say that these people often live in bad neighborhoods that foster "gang culture", so even smart kids are sucked into it: Often freshmen have to live on campus, so they get immersed into a learning community and have to break connections to places they were raised at.
A rather interesting article (pdf) [harvard.edu] on the "acting white" phenomenon that I recently read might be relevant to this discussion.
Yes, I'm bitter - perhaps that's because most of the benefits listed above didn't apply to me, and I still somehow managed to accomplish my goal of doing a good enough job as an undergrad to be accepted in a top 5 grad school.
Upward mobility *does exist* if you're persistent (or desperate) enough.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165056</id>
	<title>Big Deal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266343260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know I will be modded down into oblivion for this but in my recent 4th year upper year/graduate math classes at a very good math/cs university there is not a single black person amongst everyone (out of i would imagine 150 students spread over 4 400-level courses, two cross listed as graduate). and over the previous 3 years it was about the same. ditto for the CS courses I have taken. this is just plain fact. and can anyone tell me a famous black mathematician or computer scientist?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know I will be modded down into oblivion for this but in my recent 4th year upper year/graduate math classes at a very good math/cs university there is not a single black person amongst everyone ( out of i would imagine 150 students spread over 4 400-level courses , two cross listed as graduate ) .
and over the previous 3 years it was about the same .
ditto for the CS courses I have taken .
this is just plain fact .
and can anyone tell me a famous black mathematician or computer scientist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know I will be modded down into oblivion for this but in my recent 4th year upper year/graduate math classes at a very good math/cs university there is not a single black person amongst everyone (out of i would imagine 150 students spread over 4 400-level courses, two cross listed as graduate).
and over the previous 3 years it was about the same.
ditto for the CS courses I have taken.
this is just plain fact.
and can anyone tell me a famous black mathematician or computer scientist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167704</id>
	<title>I'm not jewish but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265031840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure at such big companies ashkenazi Jews are overly represented. They're overly represented as winners of the Nobel prizes and in scientific/medical jobs as a whole. Be it because of genetic or education they're pretty smart people for a fact. It's interesting to see that it's not "politically correct" to have one group much smarter on average than another (one again, be it because solely of genetics or education or both).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure at such big companies ashkenazi Jews are overly represented .
They 're overly represented as winners of the Nobel prizes and in scientific/medical jobs as a whole .
Be it because of genetic or education they 're pretty smart people for a fact .
It 's interesting to see that it 's not " politically correct " to have one group much smarter on average than another ( one again , be it because solely of genetics or education or both ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure at such big companies ashkenazi Jews are overly represented.
They're overly represented as winners of the Nobel prizes and in scientific/medical jobs as a whole.
Be it because of genetic or education they're pretty smart people for a fact.
It's interesting to see that it's not "politically correct" to have one group much smarter on average than another (one again, be it because solely of genetics or education or both).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31170658</id>
	<title>Re:As for Apple...</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1265045040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny, because the man in charge at Apple is a Syrian Arab.</p><p>Wait, I'm sorry.  This is America.  There's no difference between European and Middle-Eastern here, so you can pretty much openly decide that you want to hire the Indian or Mexican or black guy over the Arab or Jew because you just don't like Arabs and Jews, and the racial-discrimination laws will have nothing to say about that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny , because the man in charge at Apple is a Syrian Arab.Wait , I 'm sorry .
This is America .
There 's no difference between European and Middle-Eastern here , so you can pretty much openly decide that you want to hire the Indian or Mexican or black guy over the Arab or Jew because you just do n't like Arabs and Jews , and the racial-discrimination laws will have nothing to say about that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny, because the man in charge at Apple is a Syrian Arab.Wait, I'm sorry.
This is America.
There's no difference between European and Middle-Eastern here, so you can pretty much openly decide that you want to hire the Indian or Mexican or black guy over the Arab or Jew because you just don't like Arabs and Jews, and the racial-discrimination laws will have nothing to say about that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165398</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1266345480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm too lazy to do it again, but if you pull the numbers and do the math, the number of H1Bs that Microsoft employs is a rather small percentage of their total workforce.</p><p>In other words, Microsoft employs a ton of H1B visa holders because it has an absolutely massive overall number of employees.  It's not particularly surprising that a company that engages in product development and basic research would require some foreign expertise.  (Supporting this theory is that Microsoft's H1B applications have reportedly dropped at a rate that's roughly inversely proportional to the unemployment rate)</p><p>That all said, the H1B "problem" seems to be wildly blown out of proportion.  The current law allows for 65,000 visas to be issued each year.  In a country of 300 million people, 65,000 is really just a drop in the bucket (0.02\% of the population, 0.04\% of the labor force).  Accounting for the total number of H1B holders is a bit more difficult, but even at 1 million (a <i>wildly</i> generous estimate), would still be less than 1\% of the total workforce.</p><p>Also don't forget that there are plenty of Americans who work overseas.  A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing, as long as it's kept under reasonable control.</p><p>Find something else to complain about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm too lazy to do it again , but if you pull the numbers and do the math , the number of H1Bs that Microsoft employs is a rather small percentage of their total workforce.In other words , Microsoft employs a ton of H1B visa holders because it has an absolutely massive overall number of employees .
It 's not particularly surprising that a company that engages in product development and basic research would require some foreign expertise .
( Supporting this theory is that Microsoft 's H1B applications have reportedly dropped at a rate that 's roughly inversely proportional to the unemployment rate ) That all said , the H1B " problem " seems to be wildly blown out of proportion .
The current law allows for 65,000 visas to be issued each year .
In a country of 300 million people , 65,000 is really just a drop in the bucket ( 0.02 \ % of the population , 0.04 \ % of the labor force ) .
Accounting for the total number of H1B holders is a bit more difficult , but even at 1 million ( a wildly generous estimate ) , would still be less than 1 \ % of the total workforce.Also do n't forget that there are plenty of Americans who work overseas .
A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing , as long as it 's kept under reasonable control.Find something else to complain about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm too lazy to do it again, but if you pull the numbers and do the math, the number of H1Bs that Microsoft employs is a rather small percentage of their total workforce.In other words, Microsoft employs a ton of H1B visa holders because it has an absolutely massive overall number of employees.
It's not particularly surprising that a company that engages in product development and basic research would require some foreign expertise.
(Supporting this theory is that Microsoft's H1B applications have reportedly dropped at a rate that's roughly inversely proportional to the unemployment rate)That all said, the H1B "problem" seems to be wildly blown out of proportion.
The current law allows for 65,000 visas to be issued each year.
In a country of 300 million people, 65,000 is really just a drop in the bucket (0.02\% of the population, 0.04\% of the labor force).
Accounting for the total number of H1B holders is a bit more difficult, but even at 1 million (a wildly generous estimate), would still be less than 1\% of the total workforce.Also don't forget that there are plenty of Americans who work overseas.
A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing, as long as it's kept under reasonable control.Find something else to complain about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165862</id>
	<title>Re:Despicable journalists</title>
	<author>LordLucless</author>
	<datestamp>1266349260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or because they just want people to go on feeling warm fuzzies when they hear the word "diverse", instead of actually engaging their brains and understanding what the word means.<br>
<br>
They can say they're diverse, and people will think that Google is a nice company. They can even be telling the truth. But if the stats come out, and it shows that their diversity is a product of hiring many different types of East Europeans, Asians and Indians, people will realise that "diverse" doesn't necessarily mean equal hiring practices - it just means diverse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or because they just want people to go on feeling warm fuzzies when they hear the word " diverse " , instead of actually engaging their brains and understanding what the word means .
They can say they 're diverse , and people will think that Google is a nice company .
They can even be telling the truth .
But if the stats come out , and it shows that their diversity is a product of hiring many different types of East Europeans , Asians and Indians , people will realise that " diverse " does n't necessarily mean equal hiring practices - it just means diverse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or because they just want people to go on feeling warm fuzzies when they hear the word "diverse", instead of actually engaging their brains and understanding what the word means.
They can say they're diverse, and people will think that Google is a nice company.
They can even be telling the truth.
But if the stats come out, and it shows that their diversity is a product of hiring many different types of East Europeans, Asians and Indians, people will realise that "diverse" doesn't necessarily mean equal hiring practices - it just means diverse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31164980</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31167210</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the white males they're hiding.</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265026020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
There is usually an unspoken addendum to this phrase  - "as long as it benefits my company/country".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing There is usually an unspoken addendum to this phrase - " as long as it benefits my company/country " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A degree of international mobility in the labor market is generally a good thing

There is usually an unspoken addendum to this phrase  - "as long as it benefits my company/country".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_16_2130243.31165398</parent>
</comment>
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