<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_13_1638212</id>
	<title>UPS Setup For a Small/Mid-Size Company?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1266084720000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"We're a small company employing ~30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers. Unfortunately, the hosts they are on don't have redundant power supplies because we simply don't have the capacity. We currently have one UPS per rack, which gives us about two minutes. This may have been enough time when they were put in &mdash; they've been there for some time &mdash; but it isn't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure. Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes. So I'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected. Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice. Of course cost is a key factor too. so given all of the above, what does Slashdot recommend?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " We 're a small company employing ~ 30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers .
Unfortunately , the hosts they are on do n't have redundant power supplies because we simply do n't have the capacity .
We currently have one UPS per rack , which gives us about two minutes .
This may have been enough time when they were put in    they 've been there for some time    but it is n't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure .
Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes .
So I 'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected .
Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice .
Of course cost is a key factor too .
so given all of the above , what does Slashdot recommend ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "We're a small company employing ~30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers.
Unfortunately, the hosts they are on don't have redundant power supplies because we simply don't have the capacity.
We currently have one UPS per rack, which gives us about two minutes.
This may have been enough time when they were put in — they've been there for some time — but it isn't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure.
Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes.
So I'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected.
Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice.
Of course cost is a key factor too.
so given all of the above, what does Slashdot recommend?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129128</id>
	<title>Solution--- A backup UPS for a UPS!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266093240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might as well have a cluster of UPS's like a cheap APC where one main ups has 3 backup ups's.... I know its a quick and dirty hack, but it should work I think...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might as well have a cluster of UPS 's like a cheap APC where one main ups has 3 backup ups 's.... I know its a quick and dirty hack , but it should work I think... : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might as well have a cluster of UPS's like a cheap APC where one main ups has 3 backup ups's.... I know its a quick and dirty hack, but it should work I think... :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132168</id>
	<title>Re:APC SmartUPS</title>
	<author>nighty5</author>
	<datestamp>1266079020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A great working example to answer the question and to provide a good sample of ideas.

Thanks for sharing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A great working example to answer the question and to provide a good sample of ideas .
Thanks for sharing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A great working example to answer the question and to provide a good sample of ideas.
Thanks for sharing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130456</id>
	<title>For my money...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266060240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am starting a (very) small business, with one computer to be left on 24/7.  The power requirements are not large, but in my estimation, the biggest worry I have is not a power outage lasting tens of minutes (or hours or days), but rather fully transient.  Primarily, if I can keep the server from going hiccup for 10-20 seconds --either a lightning strike or a brown out-- then I will feel comfortable.  I had a UPS on a small machine that would do that, (good for maybe 3-5 minutes) but my biggest concern was things like transients, spikes, ring waves, etc.  No lightning strike or brown out ever lasted more than 30 seconds, and the UPS and surge protectors might get hammered, but not the server.  If your revenue and needs require 10-20 minutes, then go get more (even a backup generator that will keep things going for days).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am starting a ( very ) small business , with one computer to be left on 24/7 .
The power requirements are not large , but in my estimation , the biggest worry I have is not a power outage lasting tens of minutes ( or hours or days ) , but rather fully transient .
Primarily , if I can keep the server from going hiccup for 10-20 seconds --either a lightning strike or a brown out-- then I will feel comfortable .
I had a UPS on a small machine that would do that , ( good for maybe 3-5 minutes ) but my biggest concern was things like transients , spikes , ring waves , etc .
No lightning strike or brown out ever lasted more than 30 seconds , and the UPS and surge protectors might get hammered , but not the server .
If your revenue and needs require 10-20 minutes , then go get more ( even a backup generator that will keep things going for days ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am starting a (very) small business, with one computer to be left on 24/7.
The power requirements are not large, but in my estimation, the biggest worry I have is not a power outage lasting tens of minutes (or hours or days), but rather fully transient.
Primarily, if I can keep the server from going hiccup for 10-20 seconds --either a lightning strike or a brown out-- then I will feel comfortable.
I had a UPS on a small machine that would do that, (good for maybe 3-5 minutes) but my biggest concern was things like transients, spikes, ring waves, etc.
No lightning strike or brown out ever lasted more than 30 seconds, and the UPS and surge protectors might get hammered, but not the server.
If your revenue and needs require 10-20 minutes, then go get more (even a backup generator that will keep things going for days).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130078</id>
	<title>Re:APC SmartUPS</title>
	<author>tkjtkj</author>
	<datestamp>1266057120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>a very reasonable setup<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..

but:

does nagios also email you when the units come back online??

that's probably the most important thing , in a practical sense, cuz it could save you hours of travel...

Notice of going down is fine, but you cant do a thing about it.. and your UPS capacity can handle it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..

but to you really want to cancel your fam's vacay cuz you didnt know the problem was resolved 20 mins later??

tkjtkj@gmail.com</htmltext>
<tokenext>a very reasonable setup . . but : does nagios also email you when the units come back online ? ?
that 's probably the most important thing , in a practical sense , cuz it could save you hours of travel.. . Notice of going down is fine , but you cant do a thing about it.. and your UPS capacity can handle it . . but to you really want to cancel your fam 's vacay cuz you didnt know the problem was resolved 20 mins later ? ?
tkjtkj @ gmail.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a very reasonable setup ..

but:

does nagios also email you when the units come back online??
that's probably the most important thing , in a practical sense, cuz it could save you hours of travel...

Notice of going down is fine, but you cant do a thing about it.. and your UPS capacity can handle it ..

but to you really want to cancel your fam's vacay cuz you didnt know the problem was resolved 20 mins later??
tkjtkj@gmail.com</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129908</id>
	<title>Colocation</title>
	<author>liam193</author>
	<datestamp>1266055680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With the current availability of fairly inexpensive bandwidth, why are you running servers at your location?  There simply isn't much justification for any business not in the fortune 500 to go the route of "build your own" Catacenter.  If it must be up, look at the option of renting rack space from a Telecom provider that takes care of generator power for you.  Most of these will do a rack for a couple hundred a month that includes the generator backup.  You may need to get a small UPS that handles the "blip" until the generator kicks in (they usually tell you that you need a few seconds of UPS), but it sounds like you already have units to put at the bottom of the rack that will handle that.  You then have servers that will survive as long as the provider has fuel.  Anything else is going to cost you far more.  Most likely you can find one that will provide decent bandwidth from your location to theirs and provide you with an Internet connection at the Colo that is less expensive because it doesn't have the local loop to your facility.  This probably would offset much of the cost for bandwidth that you will need from your office to your servers at the Colo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With the current availability of fairly inexpensive bandwidth , why are you running servers at your location ?
There simply is n't much justification for any business not in the fortune 500 to go the route of " build your own " Catacenter .
If it must be up , look at the option of renting rack space from a Telecom provider that takes care of generator power for you .
Most of these will do a rack for a couple hundred a month that includes the generator backup .
You may need to get a small UPS that handles the " blip " until the generator kicks in ( they usually tell you that you need a few seconds of UPS ) , but it sounds like you already have units to put at the bottom of the rack that will handle that .
You then have servers that will survive as long as the provider has fuel .
Anything else is going to cost you far more .
Most likely you can find one that will provide decent bandwidth from your location to theirs and provide you with an Internet connection at the Colo that is less expensive because it does n't have the local loop to your facility .
This probably would offset much of the cost for bandwidth that you will need from your office to your servers at the Colo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the current availability of fairly inexpensive bandwidth, why are you running servers at your location?
There simply isn't much justification for any business not in the fortune 500 to go the route of "build your own" Catacenter.
If it must be up, look at the option of renting rack space from a Telecom provider that takes care of generator power for you.
Most of these will do a rack for a couple hundred a month that includes the generator backup.
You may need to get a small UPS that handles the "blip" until the generator kicks in (they usually tell you that you need a few seconds of UPS), but it sounds like you already have units to put at the bottom of the rack that will handle that.
You then have servers that will survive as long as the provider has fuel.
Anything else is going to cost you far more.
Most likely you can find one that will provide decent bandwidth from your location to theirs and provide you with an Internet connection at the Colo that is less expensive because it doesn't have the local loop to your facility.
This probably would offset much of the cost for bandwidth that you will need from your office to your servers at the Colo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129684</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1266053940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down."</p><p>I grab those and connect them to car batteries, both as battery tenders in my shop and for UPS use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down .
" I grab those and connect them to car batteries , both as battery tenders in my shop and for UPS use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down.
"I grab those and connect them to car batteries, both as battery tenders in my shop and for UPS use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129044</id>
	<title>Sizing is VERY important</title>
	<author>nuckfuts</author>
	<datestamp>1266092460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One challenge is knowing how many VA your servers draw, which varies depending on how much RAM they have, how many disk drives, and even how busy the servers are. There is no boilerplate information that can help you with this. To spec your UPS's properly, you need to connect a power meter to each group of servers and monitor the power consumption under typical load.</p><p>Once you have an accurate idea of the load, you can look at UPS manufacturer's data to determine how much runtime to expect. For example, if a 2KVA UPS is rated for 10 minutes with a particular battery, you should get 20 minutes if your load is 1KVA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One challenge is knowing how many VA your servers draw , which varies depending on how much RAM they have , how many disk drives , and even how busy the servers are .
There is no boilerplate information that can help you with this .
To spec your UPS 's properly , you need to connect a power meter to each group of servers and monitor the power consumption under typical load.Once you have an accurate idea of the load , you can look at UPS manufacturer 's data to determine how much runtime to expect .
For example , if a 2KVA UPS is rated for 10 minutes with a particular battery , you should get 20 minutes if your load is 1KVA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One challenge is knowing how many VA your servers draw, which varies depending on how much RAM they have, how many disk drives, and even how busy the servers are.
There is no boilerplate information that can help you with this.
To spec your UPS's properly, you need to connect a power meter to each group of servers and monitor the power consumption under typical load.Once you have an accurate idea of the load, you can look at UPS manufacturer's data to determine how much runtime to expect.
For example, if a 2KVA UPS is rated for 10 minutes with a particular battery, you should get 20 minutes if your load is 1KVA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128636</id>
	<title>HP</title>
	<author>Thnurg</author>
	<datestamp>1266089160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have had good experiences with the HP <a href="http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/power-protection/rackups/r5500xr/index.html" title="hp.com">R5500 XR</a> [hp.com]. You may require a smaller and cheaper model like the R3000 or R1500 depending on your servers.<br>These UPS are fully supported by <a href="http://www.networkupstools.org/" title="networkupstools.org">NUT</a> [networkupstools.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have had good experiences with the HP R5500 XR [ hp.com ] .
You may require a smaller and cheaper model like the R3000 or R1500 depending on your servers.These UPS are fully supported by NUT [ networkupstools.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have had good experiences with the HP R5500 XR [hp.com].
You may require a smaller and cheaper model like the R3000 or R1500 depending on your servers.These UPS are fully supported by NUT [networkupstools.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31134872</id>
	<title>size matters</title>
	<author>nanimo</author>
	<datestamp>1266167400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the size of your company is best described by ~30 employees, the fact is that you will never be able to make it financially feasible to run your own infrastructure with a high enough service level. In this case it is best to move the infrastructure out to a service provider.

On the other hand it is possible that you are not accurately describing your operation (multiple domain controllers for 30 people)?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the size of your company is best described by ~ 30 employees , the fact is that you will never be able to make it financially feasible to run your own infrastructure with a high enough service level .
In this case it is best to move the infrastructure out to a service provider .
On the other hand it is possible that you are not accurately describing your operation ( multiple domain controllers for 30 people ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the size of your company is best described by ~30 employees, the fact is that you will never be able to make it financially feasible to run your own infrastructure with a high enough service level.
In this case it is best to move the infrastructure out to a service provider.
On the other hand it is possible that you are not accurately describing your operation (multiple domain controllers for 30 people)?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129020</id>
	<title>Re:Generator</title>
	<author>kullnd</author>
	<datestamp>1266092220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Match that generator with double conversion (online) UPSs and your set --- We have online UPSs with about 1 - 2 minutes of uptime and a gas generator and it works great<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  But I will say that if you have a generator I recommend online UPSs especially if you have your AC units also on that same generator... We found that we get some dirty power on generator, especially when the AC compressors cycle, online UPSs keep all of that away from our servers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Match that generator with double conversion ( online ) UPSs and your set --- We have online UPSs with about 1 - 2 minutes of uptime and a gas generator and it works great ... But I will say that if you have a generator I recommend online UPSs especially if you have your AC units also on that same generator... We found that we get some dirty power on generator , especially when the AC compressors cycle , online UPSs keep all of that away from our servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Match that generator with double conversion (online) UPSs and your set --- We have online UPSs with about 1 - 2 minutes of uptime and a gas generator and it works great ...  But I will say that if you have a generator I recommend online UPSs especially if you have your AC units also on that same generator... We found that we get some dirty power on generator, especially when the AC compressors cycle, online UPSs keep all of that away from our servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128612</id>
	<title>Diesel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No matter how much battery capacity you have, it will eventually run out. If your site truly needs availability, you have to get a diesel generator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No matter how much battery capacity you have , it will eventually run out .
If your site truly needs availability , you have to get a diesel generator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No matter how much battery capacity you have, it will eventually run out.
If your site truly needs availability, you have to get a diesel generator.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129160</id>
	<title>Re:Diesel</title>
	<author>Cassini2</author>
	<datestamp>1266093480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>What type of contingency you are planning for?</b>
<br>- <i>Do you need employees?</i>  At least where I work, you can't make employees work in the dark.  You have to evacuate the building.  As such, your diesel generator must be sized to power the lighting, not just the server room.
<br>- <i>Do your servers need heat? or cooling?  Do your employees need heat?</i>  The diesel generator must be sized to handle heating and cooling.
<br>- <i>Does your ISP have a diesel generator?</i>  The local telco? Are your running an internet site?   If your internet connection goes down when the power dies, keeping your servers running might not help much.
<br>- <i>Do you have old-style phone lines?</i>  Do you need phones?  Old-style phone lines work when the power is out.  Otherwise, you might be out of business when your internet connection dies.
<br>- <i>Are you running an industrial plant?</i>  Either you have your own generating station, or you are unlikely to purchase a big enough diesel generator to keep operating,
<br>- <i>Are you running a shipping department?</i>  Does the entire shipping chain, including labelling, EDI, UPS, FedEx, Truck Carriers, workers (with lighting), all run when the power is out?
<br>- <i>Are you running a hospital?</i>  All hospitals should have backup power, and all medical equipment emergency batteries built-in.
</p><p>The best contingency plans assume: your office/factory is gone.  How do you stay in business?  You should have a contingency to get every critical business function operating again, quickly.  In reality, the failure will be less severe.  For instance, a significant fire/theft requiring all computers to be replaced.  If your contingency plan handles starting over from ground-zero, then just look at the section on what to do when all the computers are missing.
</p><p> <b>Always remember: The worst failures are unexpected.</b>  My hardest emergency contingency, was keeping a factory working and shipping when all data communications were lost.  The saving factor was that the old-style telephone voice lines kept running, and I was able to purchase a significant quantity of old-fashioned modems on an emergency basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What type of contingency you are planning for ?
- Do you need employees ?
At least where I work , you ca n't make employees work in the dark .
You have to evacuate the building .
As such , your diesel generator must be sized to power the lighting , not just the server room .
- Do your servers need heat ?
or cooling ?
Do your employees need heat ?
The diesel generator must be sized to handle heating and cooling .
- Does your ISP have a diesel generator ?
The local telco ?
Are your running an internet site ?
If your internet connection goes down when the power dies , keeping your servers running might not help much .
- Do you have old-style phone lines ?
Do you need phones ?
Old-style phone lines work when the power is out .
Otherwise , you might be out of business when your internet connection dies .
- Are you running an industrial plant ?
Either you have your own generating station , or you are unlikely to purchase a big enough diesel generator to keep operating , - Are you running a shipping department ?
Does the entire shipping chain , including labelling , EDI , UPS , FedEx , Truck Carriers , workers ( with lighting ) , all run when the power is out ?
- Are you running a hospital ?
All hospitals should have backup power , and all medical equipment emergency batteries built-in .
The best contingency plans assume : your office/factory is gone .
How do you stay in business ?
You should have a contingency to get every critical business function operating again , quickly .
In reality , the failure will be less severe .
For instance , a significant fire/theft requiring all computers to be replaced .
If your contingency plan handles starting over from ground-zero , then just look at the section on what to do when all the computers are missing .
Always remember : The worst failures are unexpected .
My hardest emergency contingency , was keeping a factory working and shipping when all data communications were lost .
The saving factor was that the old-style telephone voice lines kept running , and I was able to purchase a significant quantity of old-fashioned modems on an emergency basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What type of contingency you are planning for?
- Do you need employees?
At least where I work, you can't make employees work in the dark.
You have to evacuate the building.
As such, your diesel generator must be sized to power the lighting, not just the server room.
- Do your servers need heat?
or cooling?
Do your employees need heat?
The diesel generator must be sized to handle heating and cooling.
- Does your ISP have a diesel generator?
The local telco?
Are your running an internet site?
If your internet connection goes down when the power dies, keeping your servers running might not help much.
- Do you have old-style phone lines?
Do you need phones?
Old-style phone lines work when the power is out.
Otherwise, you might be out of business when your internet connection dies.
- Are you running an industrial plant?
Either you have your own generating station, or you are unlikely to purchase a big enough diesel generator to keep operating,
- Are you running a shipping department?
Does the entire shipping chain, including labelling, EDI, UPS, FedEx, Truck Carriers, workers (with lighting), all run when the power is out?
- Are you running a hospital?
All hospitals should have backup power, and all medical equipment emergency batteries built-in.
The best contingency plans assume: your office/factory is gone.
How do you stay in business?
You should have a contingency to get every critical business function operating again, quickly.
In reality, the failure will be less severe.
For instance, a significant fire/theft requiring all computers to be replaced.
If your contingency plan handles starting over from ground-zero, then just look at the section on what to do when all the computers are missing.
Always remember: The worst failures are unexpected.
My hardest emergency contingency, was keeping a factory working and shipping when all data communications were lost.
The saving factor was that the old-style telephone voice lines kept running, and I was able to purchase a significant quantity of old-fashioned modems on an emergency basis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31135332</id>
	<title>Re:Have you tested the UPS lately?</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1266171960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bingo.</p><p>UPS's need the batteries REPLACED yearly on critical systems.   If this has not been done the IT department has been slacking off.</p><p>decent UPS's (nothing you can buy at best buy) have ethernet or USB/serial monitoring plus notify the pc they are connected to that power was lost,  Windows server can easily respond to that, initiate a shutdown and with it's last shutdown breath, tell the PUS to go offline.</p><p>Basically if you use 1U space of UPS for every 2U space of servers or powervault drive cages you will get incredibly close to correct UPS backup power ratio.</p><p>also if you have critical operations, not having a generator in place that will automatically run every week and give you a report is simply really bad planning.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bingo.UPS 's need the batteries REPLACED yearly on critical systems .
If this has not been done the IT department has been slacking off.decent UPS 's ( nothing you can buy at best buy ) have ethernet or USB/serial monitoring plus notify the pc they are connected to that power was lost , Windows server can easily respond to that , initiate a shutdown and with it 's last shutdown breath , tell the PUS to go offline.Basically if you use 1U space of UPS for every 2U space of servers or powervault drive cages you will get incredibly close to correct UPS backup power ratio.also if you have critical operations , not having a generator in place that will automatically run every week and give you a report is simply really bad planning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bingo.UPS's need the batteries REPLACED yearly on critical systems.
If this has not been done the IT department has been slacking off.decent UPS's (nothing you can buy at best buy) have ethernet or USB/serial monitoring plus notify the pc they are connected to that power was lost,  Windows server can easily respond to that, initiate a shutdown and with it's last shutdown breath, tell the PUS to go offline.Basically if you use 1U space of UPS for every 2U space of servers or powervault drive cages you will get incredibly close to correct UPS backup power ratio.also if you have critical operations, not having a generator in place that will automatically run every week and give you a report is simply really bad planning.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129124</id>
	<title>Domain controllers are clearly the biggest problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266093180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>15 minutes to shutdown domain controllers?? Get rid of 'em!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>15 minutes to shutdown domain controllers ? ?
Get rid of 'em !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>15 minutes to shutdown domain controllers??
Get rid of 'em!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129722</id>
	<title>Umm... redundant power supplies are for failures</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266054180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You say you don't have redundant power supplies because you don't have the<br>capacity.</p><p>Redundant power supplies don't double your current draw... they allow you<br>to continue to operate if one power supply (or one power feed) fails.</p><p>If you need uptime and you DON'T have redundant power supplies, you're...<br>misguided.</p><p>Ideally you'll have separate circuits that can independently handle<br>the full load, too, but don't be fooled into thinking a UPS will solve<br>everything.</p><p>That said, APC SMART-UPS are quite good, but if you have a big enough<br>operation you might want to look into a bigger datacenter UPS solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You say you do n't have redundant power supplies because you do n't have thecapacity.Redundant power supplies do n't double your current draw... they allow youto continue to operate if one power supply ( or one power feed ) fails.If you need uptime and you DO N'T have redundant power supplies , you 're...misguided.Ideally you 'll have separate circuits that can independently handlethe full load , too , but do n't be fooled into thinking a UPS will solveeverything.That said , APC SMART-UPS are quite good , but if you have a big enoughoperation you might want to look into a bigger datacenter UPS solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say you don't have redundant power supplies because you don't have thecapacity.Redundant power supplies don't double your current draw... they allow youto continue to operate if one power supply (or one power feed) fails.If you need uptime and you DON'T have redundant power supplies, you're...misguided.Ideally you'll have separate circuits that can independently handlethe full load, too, but don't be fooled into thinking a UPS will solveeverything.That said, APC SMART-UPS are quite good, but if you have a big enoughoperation you might want to look into a bigger datacenter UPS solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31134090</id>
	<title>Contact your power company</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1266158280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most have programs designed to help business with power issues; they may have a solution that fits your needs and budget.  It's free to ask; and you may wind up with an affordable maintenance free solution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most have programs designed to help business with power issues ; they may have a solution that fits your needs and budget .
It 's free to ask ; and you may wind up with an affordable maintenance free solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most have programs designed to help business with power issues; they may have a solution that fits your needs and budget.
It's free to ask; and you may wind up with an affordable maintenance free solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130274</id>
	<title>Cheap Used UPSes?</title>
	<author>Doc Ruby</author>
	<datestamp>1266058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't need any fancy new UPSes, but I sure could use a whole lot of cheap ones - maybe 150KWh total capacity. Where's somewhere to buy the lowest $:KWh that can actually be gotten from some old ones, even if they're a little worn out, so long as they'll last another 5 years at that superior $:KWh? Even if they fill a whole room.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't need any fancy new UPSes , but I sure could use a whole lot of cheap ones - maybe 150KWh total capacity .
Where 's somewhere to buy the lowest $ : KWh that can actually be gotten from some old ones , even if they 're a little worn out , so long as they 'll last another 5 years at that superior $ : KWh ?
Even if they fill a whole room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't need any fancy new UPSes, but I sure could use a whole lot of cheap ones - maybe 150KWh total capacity.
Where's somewhere to buy the lowest $:KWh that can actually be gotten from some old ones, even if they're a little worn out, so long as they'll last another 5 years at that superior $:KWh?
Even if they fill a whole room.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130152</id>
	<title>Look at the big picture regarding power</title>
	<author>cfryback</author>
	<datestamp>1266057840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know with only 30 end users getting the funds to do this can be a challenge....It was for use (local council) until literally every time our HVAC systems would draw extra because of heat or cold, the whole phase would trip out...Thus we would have a mad panic to the DC to shutdown servers manually! Finally got a electrician (big hint here, get one familiar with Datacentres!) who looked at all three phases of power coming into our building. The first thing that we did (after a facepalm of the original setup) was to load balance ALL the power coming in, and moved the Datacentre power to a different phase than the HVAC - a no brainer, but no one before me really had thought of this!

The second phase of what we did, was to run our own 3 phases right from the main switchboard into the Datacentre with the main breakers in the Datacentre, then a couple of sub-panels.We now have our Datacentre with a North/South power distribution feeding two Liebert UPS's that in turn, feed PDU's. So if we loose one phase, things will "scream" and email off alerts - but things will stay up. We still (because of the age of our first UPS) need a physical server connected to the UPS via serial, but the newer one has a web card in it. I have a script that if both UPS end up on battery mode, a graceful suspend of the VM's starts, with our exchange and DC's being the last to suspend.

We happen to be a Windows shop, with a <a href="http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/blades/components/enclosures/c-class/c7000/index.html" title="hp.com" rel="nofollow">HP C7000 blade enclosure</a> [hp.com] that is our VMware farm, connected to <a href="http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Home.jsp?lang=en&amp;cc=us&amp;prodTypeId=12169&amp;prodSeriesId=3659910&amp;lang=en&amp;cc=us" title="hp.com" rel="nofollow">HP EVA 4100 which the two SAN switches have up to 96 hours of write cache. The other thing that I am looking at on its own small UPS is a
</a> [hp.com]<a href="http://www.routerboard.com/pricelist.php?showProduct=46" title="routerboard.com" rel="nofollow">MikroTik 411u</a> [routerboard.com] with a prepaid 3G to give us independent source of SMS's. There is little point of having a SMS server that is going to be shutdown because it is on UPS.

The key thing to remember about UPS (as far as I am concerned) - is that they are not a replacement for mains power. The suggestions for a generator are interesting given the fact that you only have 30 end users, the expense, maintenance of them would make them cost prohibitive tive in your environment.

But 30 minutes to bring up a DC?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know with only 30 end users getting the funds to do this can be a challenge....It was for use ( local council ) until literally every time our HVAC systems would draw extra because of heat or cold , the whole phase would trip out...Thus we would have a mad panic to the DC to shutdown servers manually !
Finally got a electrician ( big hint here , get one familiar with Datacentres !
) who looked at all three phases of power coming into our building .
The first thing that we did ( after a facepalm of the original setup ) was to load balance ALL the power coming in , and moved the Datacentre power to a different phase than the HVAC - a no brainer , but no one before me really had thought of this !
The second phase of what we did , was to run our own 3 phases right from the main switchboard into the Datacentre with the main breakers in the Datacentre , then a couple of sub-panels.We now have our Datacentre with a North/South power distribution feeding two Liebert UPS 's that in turn , feed PDU 's .
So if we loose one phase , things will " scream " and email off alerts - but things will stay up .
We still ( because of the age of our first UPS ) need a physical server connected to the UPS via serial , but the newer one has a web card in it .
I have a script that if both UPS end up on battery mode , a graceful suspend of the VM 's starts , with our exchange and DC 's being the last to suspend .
We happen to be a Windows shop , with a HP C7000 blade enclosure [ hp.com ] that is our VMware farm , connected to HP EVA 4100 which the two SAN switches have up to 96 hours of write cache .
The other thing that I am looking at on its own small UPS is a [ hp.com ] MikroTik 411u [ routerboard.com ] with a prepaid 3G to give us independent source of SMS 's .
There is little point of having a SMS server that is going to be shutdown because it is on UPS .
The key thing to remember about UPS ( as far as I am concerned ) - is that they are not a replacement for mains power .
The suggestions for a generator are interesting given the fact that you only have 30 end users , the expense , maintenance of them would make them cost prohibitive tive in your environment .
But 30 minutes to bring up a DC ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know with only 30 end users getting the funds to do this can be a challenge....It was for use (local council) until literally every time our HVAC systems would draw extra because of heat or cold, the whole phase would trip out...Thus we would have a mad panic to the DC to shutdown servers manually!
Finally got a electrician (big hint here, get one familiar with Datacentres!
) who looked at all three phases of power coming into our building.
The first thing that we did (after a facepalm of the original setup) was to load balance ALL the power coming in, and moved the Datacentre power to a different phase than the HVAC - a no brainer, but no one before me really had thought of this!
The second phase of what we did, was to run our own 3 phases right from the main switchboard into the Datacentre with the main breakers in the Datacentre, then a couple of sub-panels.We now have our Datacentre with a North/South power distribution feeding two Liebert UPS's that in turn, feed PDU's.
So if we loose one phase, things will "scream" and email off alerts - but things will stay up.
We still (because of the age of our first UPS) need a physical server connected to the UPS via serial, but the newer one has a web card in it.
I have a script that if both UPS end up on battery mode, a graceful suspend of the VM's starts, with our exchange and DC's being the last to suspend.
We happen to be a Windows shop, with a HP C7000 blade enclosure [hp.com] that is our VMware farm, connected to HP EVA 4100 which the two SAN switches have up to 96 hours of write cache.
The other thing that I am looking at on its own small UPS is a
 [hp.com]MikroTik 411u [routerboard.com] with a prepaid 3G to give us independent source of SMS's.
There is little point of having a SMS server that is going to be shutdown because it is on UPS.
The key thing to remember about UPS (as far as I am concerned) - is that they are not a replacement for mains power.
The suggestions for a generator are interesting given the fact that you only have 30 end users, the expense, maintenance of them would make them cost prohibitive tive in your environment.
But 30 minutes to bring up a DC?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128664</id>
	<title>Wattages?</title>
	<author>the1337g33k</author>
	<datestamp>1266089400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It would help to know about how many physical hosts and their wattages though.  You say you have one UPS per rack but how many racks are there and whats the average wattage per rack?  Exactly how big are the current UPS'es?<br> <br>

There are numbers missing here and if we had those numbers (they dont have to be exact, just close), it would help immensely in finding the best solution for the money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would help to know about how many physical hosts and their wattages though .
You say you have one UPS per rack but how many racks are there and whats the average wattage per rack ?
Exactly how big are the current UPS'es ?
There are numbers missing here and if we had those numbers ( they dont have to be exact , just close ) , it would help immensely in finding the best solution for the money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would help to know about how many physical hosts and their wattages though.
You say you have one UPS per rack but how many racks are there and whats the average wattage per rack?
Exactly how big are the current UPS'es?
There are numbers missing here and if we had those numbers (they dont have to be exact, just close), it would help immensely in finding the best solution for the money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130810</id>
	<title>Re:Diesel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266063300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No matter how much battery capacity you have, it will eventually run out. If your site truly needs availability, you have to get a diesel generator.</p></div><p>No matter how much diesel you have, it will eventually run out too...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No matter how much battery capacity you have , it will eventually run out .
If your site truly needs availability , you have to get a diesel generator.No matter how much diesel you have , it will eventually run out too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No matter how much battery capacity you have, it will eventually run out.
If your site truly needs availability, you have to get a diesel generator.No matter how much diesel you have, it will eventually run out too...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131332</id>
	<title>Expandable UPS</title>
	<author>penfold69</author>
	<datestamp>1266069000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Condition your incoming power with one of these babies:</p><p><a href="http://www.gamatronic.com/PowerPlusUps.aspx?prod=52" title="gamatronic.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamatronic.com/PowerPlusUps.aspx?prod=52</a> [gamatronic.com]</p><p>Nicely expandable, redundant and just perfect for small to medium sized server rooms.</p><p>P.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Condition your incoming power with one of these babies : http : //www.gamatronic.com/PowerPlusUps.aspx ? prod = 52 [ gamatronic.com ] Nicely expandable , redundant and just perfect for small to medium sized server rooms.P .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Condition your incoming power with one of these babies:http://www.gamatronic.com/PowerPlusUps.aspx?prod=52 [gamatronic.com]Nicely expandable, redundant and just perfect for small to medium sized server rooms.P.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133090</id>
	<title>Re:Diesel</title>
	<author>peas\_n\_carrots</author>
	<datestamp>1266179700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Diesel is so 1890's.  If you truly need availability, <a href="http://techblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/11/neighborhood-nuclear-power-pla.html" title="dallasnews.com" rel="nofollow">nuclear cogeneration</a> [dallasnews.com] is the way to go.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Diesel is so 1890 's .
If you truly need availability , nuclear cogeneration [ dallasnews.com ] is the way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Diesel is so 1890's.
If you truly need availability, nuclear cogeneration [dallasnews.com] is the way to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31160300</id>
	<title>Use the Google Server Method</title>
	<author>pfleming</author>
	<datestamp>1266315120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Google uses <a href="http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/04/the-beast-unveiled-inside-a-google-server.ars" title="arstechnica.com">on Mobo 12v batteries.</a> [arstechnica.com] <br>
Of course that would mean switching out all of the current servers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google uses on Mobo 12v batteries .
[ arstechnica.com ] Of course that would mean switching out all of the current servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google uses on Mobo 12v batteries.
[arstechnica.com] 
Of course that would mean switching out all of the current servers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128654</id>
	<title>Break out the calculator and spreadsheet</title>
	<author>darkjedi521</author>
	<datestamp>1266089340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its time to break out the calculators and do some math.  There are two main factors at work here, UPS load capacity and battery run time.   I run a series of research clusters at a university, so only the core systems (landing pads, schedulers, auth, disk arrays) are on UPS and all the compute nodes just die at a power hit.</p><p>

Retrofitting a datacenter for whole center UPS is a very daunting and expensive task, so odds are good you'll be replacing the current rack mounts with beefier units, either pedestal sized units next to their racks or rack mounted units.
</p><p>
 When buying UPS gear for work, I aim to hit either 67\% capacity with the planned load, or the smallest VA rating that takes 208V single phase, as long as its at least 1/3 under utilized for future expansion. That covers the VA rating.  As for battery run time, most of the larger units accept external battery packs to increase the run time.  I've never used them, since a 5KVA unit with my load gives me 20 minutes of run time, and if the power isn't back on by then, odds are good its not coming back any time soon.
</p><p>
Another option for extending UPS run time is to prioritize services/VMs.  With the appropriate monitoring software on each host, you can configure each host to shutdown when the UPS estimates X minutes of battery time remaining or there have been Y minutes on battery, or both.   Less load, more run time for the really important stuff.  Almost every UPS I've used (APC, Tripp-lite, Powerware) comes with off the shelf software or there are opensource solutions (apcupsd, nut) for monitoring the UPS over serial, USB, or SNMP (Options vary with mfg and model).
My shutdown schedule is:  after 5 minutes on battery, power down the compute cluster landing pads.  With 10 minutes remaining, power down the file servers with the archival data on them.  With 6 minutes remaining, power down the primary file servers.  With 2 minutes remaining, power down the auth box/network monitor/iLom control host (This is the only one that can't get powered on/monitored remotely).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its time to break out the calculators and do some math .
There are two main factors at work here , UPS load capacity and battery run time .
I run a series of research clusters at a university , so only the core systems ( landing pads , schedulers , auth , disk arrays ) are on UPS and all the compute nodes just die at a power hit .
Retrofitting a datacenter for whole center UPS is a very daunting and expensive task , so odds are good you 'll be replacing the current rack mounts with beefier units , either pedestal sized units next to their racks or rack mounted units .
When buying UPS gear for work , I aim to hit either 67 \ % capacity with the planned load , or the smallest VA rating that takes 208V single phase , as long as its at least 1/3 under utilized for future expansion .
That covers the VA rating .
As for battery run time , most of the larger units accept external battery packs to increase the run time .
I 've never used them , since a 5KVA unit with my load gives me 20 minutes of run time , and if the power is n't back on by then , odds are good its not coming back any time soon .
Another option for extending UPS run time is to prioritize services/VMs .
With the appropriate monitoring software on each host , you can configure each host to shutdown when the UPS estimates X minutes of battery time remaining or there have been Y minutes on battery , or both .
Less load , more run time for the really important stuff .
Almost every UPS I 've used ( APC , Tripp-lite , Powerware ) comes with off the shelf software or there are opensource solutions ( apcupsd , nut ) for monitoring the UPS over serial , USB , or SNMP ( Options vary with mfg and model ) .
My shutdown schedule is : after 5 minutes on battery , power down the compute cluster landing pads .
With 10 minutes remaining , power down the file servers with the archival data on them .
With 6 minutes remaining , power down the primary file servers .
With 2 minutes remaining , power down the auth box/network monitor/iLom control host ( This is the only one that ca n't get powered on/monitored remotely ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its time to break out the calculators and do some math.
There are two main factors at work here, UPS load capacity and battery run time.
I run a series of research clusters at a university, so only the core systems (landing pads, schedulers, auth, disk arrays) are on UPS and all the compute nodes just die at a power hit.
Retrofitting a datacenter for whole center UPS is a very daunting and expensive task, so odds are good you'll be replacing the current rack mounts with beefier units, either pedestal sized units next to their racks or rack mounted units.
When buying UPS gear for work, I aim to hit either 67\% capacity with the planned load, or the smallest VA rating that takes 208V single phase, as long as its at least 1/3 under utilized for future expansion.
That covers the VA rating.
As for battery run time, most of the larger units accept external battery packs to increase the run time.
I've never used them, since a 5KVA unit with my load gives me 20 minutes of run time, and if the power isn't back on by then, odds are good its not coming back any time soon.
Another option for extending UPS run time is to prioritize services/VMs.
With the appropriate monitoring software on each host, you can configure each host to shutdown when the UPS estimates X minutes of battery time remaining or there have been Y minutes on battery, or both.
Less load, more run time for the really important stuff.
Almost every UPS I've used (APC, Tripp-lite, Powerware) comes with off the shelf software or there are opensource solutions (apcupsd, nut) for monitoring the UPS over serial, USB, or SNMP (Options vary with mfg and model).
My shutdown schedule is:  after 5 minutes on battery, power down the compute cluster landing pads.
With 10 minutes remaining, power down the file servers with the archival data on them.
With 6 minutes remaining, power down the primary file servers.
With 2 minutes remaining, power down the auth box/network monitor/iLom control host (This is the only one that can't get powered on/monitored remotely).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128680</id>
	<title>Re:stationary bikes with alternator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>New UPS batteries and redundant backup generators sounds like the way to go. Even if your UPS only gives you 2 minutes, that should be enough time to fire up a generator.</htmltext>
<tokenext>New UPS batteries and redundant backup generators sounds like the way to go .
Even if your UPS only gives you 2 minutes , that should be enough time to fire up a generator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>New UPS batteries and redundant backup generators sounds like the way to go.
Even if your UPS only gives you 2 minutes, that should be enough time to fire up a generator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128608</id>
	<title>Re:Generator</title>
	<author>linuxpyro</author>
	<datestamp>1266088980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, a generator plus flywheel storage might be the way to go.  Get some flywheel units that can run everything for maybe thirty seconds, and have plenty of time for the generator to kick in.  Now downtime at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , a generator plus flywheel storage might be the way to go .
Get some flywheel units that can run everything for maybe thirty seconds , and have plenty of time for the generator to kick in .
Now downtime at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, a generator plus flywheel storage might be the way to go.
Get some flywheel units that can run everything for maybe thirty seconds, and have plenty of time for the generator to kick in.
Now downtime at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133234</id>
	<title>look how google does it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266140400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not for everyone but google as a really clever solution <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html" title="cnet.com" rel="nofollow">http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html</a> [cnet.com]</p><p>I don't like those big UPSs, they are expensive, a lot of unneeded HW and they barely work when you need them most (expensive, small discharge time, batteries losing charge capacity<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. )</p><p>So for our own datacenter we keep the currently bought UPSs and added some laptops for really critical services, we virtualice a lot too (OpenVZ) and both technologies enables us to degrade services gracefully and still keep high uptimes, laptops are great, cheap, and batteries can last up to 2 hours. It's not a solution for everyone, but works if your platform can be adapted to the architecture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not for everyone but google as a really clever solution http : //news.cnet.com/8301-1001 \ _3-10209580-92.html [ cnet.com ] I do n't like those big UPSs , they are expensive , a lot of unneeded HW and they barely work when you need them most ( expensive , small discharge time , batteries losing charge capacity .. ) So for our own datacenter we keep the currently bought UPSs and added some laptops for really critical services , we virtualice a lot too ( OpenVZ ) and both technologies enables us to degrade services gracefully and still keep high uptimes , laptops are great , cheap , and batteries can last up to 2 hours .
It 's not a solution for everyone , but works if your platform can be adapted to the architecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not for everyone but google as a really clever solution http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html [cnet.com]I don't like those big UPSs, they are expensive, a lot of unneeded HW and they barely work when you need them most (expensive, small discharge time, batteries losing charge capacity .. )So for our own datacenter we keep the currently bought UPSs and added some laptops for really critical services, we virtualice a lot too (OpenVZ) and both technologies enables us to degrade services gracefully and still keep high uptimes, laptops are great, cheap, and batteries can last up to 2 hours.
It's not a solution for everyone, but works if your platform can be adapted to the architecture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129648</id>
	<title>Re:Shill detected</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1266053700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I can smell the curry from here."</p><p>Shmuck detected.</p><p>Large lead-acid batteries (or Optima batteries if servicing is a concern) are cheap compared to most UPS batteries, inverters are old, proven technology, and systems using them are easy to set up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I can smell the curry from here .
" Shmuck detected.Large lead-acid batteries ( or Optima batteries if servicing is a concern ) are cheap compared to most UPS batteries , inverters are old , proven technology , and systems using them are easy to set up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I can smell the curry from here.
"Shmuck detected.Large lead-acid batteries (or Optima batteries if servicing is a concern) are cheap compared to most UPS batteries, inverters are old, proven technology, and systems using them are easy to set up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</id>
	<title>APC SmartUPS</title>
	<author>ircmaxell</author>
	<datestamp>1266089220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have 2 3000 watt APC SmartUPSes per rack.  They have both Serial and USB notification.  Since each rack has about 25 servers, I get around 25 to 40 minutes of runtime for each server.  So I have a small PC for each rack that monitors those 2 devices.  It connects by serial to the upses, and runs CentOS.  Then I have APCUPSD installed and configured in multi-ups mode.  On each server, I simply install APCUPSD (There is a windows version), and tell it which UPS it is on.  I also configure the appropriate shutdown parameters (20 minutes of battery left for non-critical servers, 15 for DC, and 5 for other critical servers.  I also hooked each UPS monitor into Nagios and Munin, so I can track each one's power output and time remaining.  So far, it's worked great over 2 "brownouts", and 1 total power failure (a test where I simply tripped the appropriate breakers).  <br> <br>The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors, is that I don't really care if the loose power while running, so I have them set to never shut down from UPS activity.  Then, I simply implemented a script that on power restore issues a netboot command to each server under its control (configured with puppet for Linux, AD for Windows).  That way, the whole system (all servers) automatically shut down, and turn themselves back on even if they never really lost power...  So far, it's worked flawlessly (and with nagios, I get a text message on my cellphone within a minute or two of a UPS switching to battery (we have 2 dedicated internet connections that are on different power sources and different UPSs.<br> <br>I hope this helps!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have 2 3000 watt APC SmartUPSes per rack .
They have both Serial and USB notification .
Since each rack has about 25 servers , I get around 25 to 40 minutes of runtime for each server .
So I have a small PC for each rack that monitors those 2 devices .
It connects by serial to the upses , and runs CentOS .
Then I have APCUPSD installed and configured in multi-ups mode .
On each server , I simply install APCUPSD ( There is a windows version ) , and tell it which UPS it is on .
I also configure the appropriate shutdown parameters ( 20 minutes of battery left for non-critical servers , 15 for DC , and 5 for other critical servers .
I also hooked each UPS monitor into Nagios and Munin , so I can track each one 's power output and time remaining .
So far , it 's worked great over 2 " brownouts " , and 1 total power failure ( a test where I simply tripped the appropriate breakers ) .
The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors , is that I do n't really care if the loose power while running , so I have them set to never shut down from UPS activity .
Then , I simply implemented a script that on power restore issues a netboot command to each server under its control ( configured with puppet for Linux , AD for Windows ) .
That way , the whole system ( all servers ) automatically shut down , and turn themselves back on even if they never really lost power... So far , it 's worked flawlessly ( and with nagios , I get a text message on my cellphone within a minute or two of a UPS switching to battery ( we have 2 dedicated internet connections that are on different power sources and different UPSs .
I hope this helps !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have 2 3000 watt APC SmartUPSes per rack.
They have both Serial and USB notification.
Since each rack has about 25 servers, I get around 25 to 40 minutes of runtime for each server.
So I have a small PC for each rack that monitors those 2 devices.
It connects by serial to the upses, and runs CentOS.
Then I have APCUPSD installed and configured in multi-ups mode.
On each server, I simply install APCUPSD (There is a windows version), and tell it which UPS it is on.
I also configure the appropriate shutdown parameters (20 minutes of battery left for non-critical servers, 15 for DC, and 5 for other critical servers.
I also hooked each UPS monitor into Nagios and Munin, so I can track each one's power output and time remaining.
So far, it's worked great over 2 "brownouts", and 1 total power failure (a test where I simply tripped the appropriate breakers).
The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors, is that I don't really care if the loose power while running, so I have them set to never shut down from UPS activity.
Then, I simply implemented a script that on power restore issues a netboot command to each server under its control (configured with puppet for Linux, AD for Windows).
That way, the whole system (all servers) automatically shut down, and turn themselves back on even if they never really lost power...  So far, it's worked flawlessly (and with nagios, I get a text message on my cellphone within a minute or two of a UPS switching to battery (we have 2 dedicated internet connections that are on different power sources and different UPSs.
I hope this helps!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129624</id>
	<title>if (Hyper-V)</title>
	<author>deejay1</author>
	<datestamp>1266053580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you use Hyper-V VM-s then don't go into APC SmartUPS if you're not willing to spend additional money for their "dedicated" network shutdown software...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you use Hyper-V VM-s then do n't go into APC SmartUPS if you 're not willing to spend additional money for their " dedicated " network shutdown software.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you use Hyper-V VM-s then don't go into APC SmartUPS if you're not willing to spend additional money for their "dedicated" network shutdown software...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128620</id>
	<title>More Infromation Needed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You haven't provided enough information.  To answer your questions we'd need to know how many racks, how many watts or Vamps per rack, or even the type of servers you're running.  On top of that you mention that cost is an issue, but you don't mention a budget.</p><p>Without having that info imagine the following scenarios:<br>1. You have 1-2 racks with 4-5 piece's of equipment each<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Get a Large APC (or comparible unit for each rack)</p><p>2. You have 1-2 racks halfway populated<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Get an expandable hardwired rackmounted APC</p><p>3. You have 1-2 (or more) racks fully populated<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Get a large hardwired dedicated UPS</p><p>Of course none of this considers anything beyond just bringing the systems down gracefully.  If you want something more than that you might want to consider an outsourced datacenter or a generator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have n't provided enough information .
To answer your questions we 'd need to know how many racks , how many watts or Vamps per rack , or even the type of servers you 're running .
On top of that you mention that cost is an issue , but you do n't mention a budget.Without having that info imagine the following scenarios : 1 .
You have 1-2 racks with 4-5 piece 's of equipment each     Get a Large APC ( or comparible unit for each rack ) 2 .
You have 1-2 racks halfway populated     Get an expandable hardwired rackmounted APC3 .
You have 1-2 ( or more ) racks fully populated     Get a large hardwired dedicated UPSOf course none of this considers anything beyond just bringing the systems down gracefully .
If you want something more than that you might want to consider an outsourced datacenter or a generator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You haven't provided enough information.
To answer your questions we'd need to know how many racks, how many watts or Vamps per rack, or even the type of servers you're running.
On top of that you mention that cost is an issue, but you don't mention a budget.Without having that info imagine the following scenarios:1.
You have 1-2 racks with 4-5 piece's of equipment each
    Get a Large APC (or comparible unit for each rack)2.
You have 1-2 racks halfway populated
    Get an expandable hardwired rackmounted APC3.
You have 1-2 (or more) racks fully populated
    Get a large hardwired dedicated UPSOf course none of this considers anything beyond just bringing the systems down gracefully.
If you want something more than that you might want to consider an outsourced datacenter or a generator.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130580</id>
	<title>Propane stand by generator</title>
	<author>2ndRateSoul</author>
	<datestamp>1266061260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run the infrastructure for a couple of small companies. I use PowerWare 9120 fully online UPS's that can power the rack of 5 servers and misc routers, firewalls, whatnot for about an hour. For around $6K I had a Generac emergency auto-failover generator installed which has worked flawlessly. Power goes about for about 45 seconds and I'm back online with full power.</p><p>When running on a smallish generator there are some things you need to know. You'll need fully online UPS's. The cheap consumer grade ones you buy at Best Buy probably won't cut it. Here's some more info: <a href="http://yml.com/fv-b-1-71/Generac-Guardian-Emergency-Standby-Generator.html" title="yml.com" rel="nofollow">http://yml.com/fv-b-1-71/Generac-Guardian-Emergency-Standby-Generator.html</a> [yml.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run the infrastructure for a couple of small companies .
I use PowerWare 9120 fully online UPS 's that can power the rack of 5 servers and misc routers , firewalls , whatnot for about an hour .
For around $ 6K I had a Generac emergency auto-failover generator installed which has worked flawlessly .
Power goes about for about 45 seconds and I 'm back online with full power.When running on a smallish generator there are some things you need to know .
You 'll need fully online UPS 's .
The cheap consumer grade ones you buy at Best Buy probably wo n't cut it .
Here 's some more info : http : //yml.com/fv-b-1-71/Generac-Guardian-Emergency-Standby-Generator.html [ yml.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run the infrastructure for a couple of small companies.
I use PowerWare 9120 fully online UPS's that can power the rack of 5 servers and misc routers, firewalls, whatnot for about an hour.
For around $6K I had a Generac emergency auto-failover generator installed which has worked flawlessly.
Power goes about for about 45 seconds and I'm back online with full power.When running on a smallish generator there are some things you need to know.
You'll need fully online UPS's.
The cheap consumer grade ones you buy at Best Buy probably won't cut it.
Here's some more info: http://yml.com/fv-b-1-71/Generac-Guardian-Emergency-Standby-Generator.html [yml.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129682</id>
	<title>Liebert</title>
	<author>gollito</author>
	<datestamp>1266053940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Liebert makes some really nice middle class UPS.  Plus they have external chassis that can exptend uptime.  Add the web card and you got email alerts whenever it does anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Liebert makes some really nice middle class UPS .
Plus they have external chassis that can exptend uptime .
Add the web card and you got email alerts whenever it does anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Liebert makes some really nice middle class UPS.
Plus they have external chassis that can exptend uptime.
Add the web card and you got email alerts whenever it does anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129928</id>
	<title>Redundant PSU vs. UPS</title>
	<author>Hymer</author>
	<datestamp>1266055860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>An UPS is not an alternative to redundant PSUs, it just seems that way until your PSU fails. <br>I've got a server room with about 150 servers (physical and virtual) every physical server got redundant PSU and the whole room runs on a PowerWare 9305 30 kVA UPS. <br>...and yes I should have redundant UPSes too, I just dont have the room for another one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An UPS is not an alternative to redundant PSUs , it just seems that way until your PSU fails .
I 've got a server room with about 150 servers ( physical and virtual ) every physical server got redundant PSU and the whole room runs on a PowerWare 9305 30 kVA UPS .
...and yes I should have redundant UPSes too , I just dont have the room for another one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An UPS is not an alternative to redundant PSUs, it just seems that way until your PSU fails.
I've got a server room with about 150 servers (physical and virtual) every physical server got redundant PSU and the whole room runs on a PowerWare 9305 30 kVA UPS.
...and yes I should have redundant UPSes too, I just dont have the room for another one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129424</id>
	<title>Another possibility...</title>
	<author>andreMA</author>
	<datestamp>1266052260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you considered trying a <a href="http://tinyurl.com/54ux75" title="tinyurl.com">bunch of these</a> [tinyurl.com]?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you considered trying a bunch of these [ tinyurl.com ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you considered trying a bunch of these [tinyurl.com]?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128532</id>
	<title>stationary bikes with alternator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>should serve 2 purpose - give you temp power and keeps your IT guys fit</htmltext>
<tokenext>should serve 2 purpose - give you temp power and keeps your IT guys fit</tokentext>
<sentencetext>should serve 2 purpose - give you temp power and keeps your IT guys fit</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31141220</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266175200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for the tip.</p><p>By the way, those aren't car batteries. Those look like  specialised UPS batteries or truck batteries - pricey, but it can give you power for a lot longer than car batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for the tip.By the way , those are n't car batteries .
Those look like specialised UPS batteries or truck batteries - pricey , but it can give you power for a lot longer than car batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for the tip.By the way, those aren't car batteries.
Those look like  specialised UPS batteries or truck batteries - pricey, but it can give you power for a lot longer than car batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130692</id>
	<title>What can brown-out do for you?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266062340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>har har har har har I'z so phuny!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>har har har har har I'z so phuny !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>har har har har har I'z so phuny!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133176</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266139020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your computer doesn't care about sine-wave output or approximations from your power source. It is going through a rectifier before it even touches your digital hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your computer does n't care about sine-wave output or approximations from your power source .
It is going through a rectifier before it even touches your digital hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your computer doesn't care about sine-wave output or approximations from your power source.
It is going through a rectifier before it even touches your digital hardware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132580</id>
	<title>Modify the UPS</title>
	<author>dogzdik</author>
	<datestamp>1266084720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Change the inverter circuitry to a continuous running configuration - of heat sinking the power transistors etc., and fan cooling them and other components.

Then add in a bigger battery bank.

Test with a dummy load of 120\% for 30 minutes and then put it into service.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Change the inverter circuitry to a continuous running configuration - of heat sinking the power transistors etc. , and fan cooling them and other components .
Then add in a bigger battery bank .
Test with a dummy load of 120 \ % for 30 minutes and then put it into service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Change the inverter circuitry to a continuous running configuration - of heat sinking the power transistors etc., and fan cooling them and other components.
Then add in a bigger battery bank.
Test with a dummy load of 120\% for 30 minutes and then put it into service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128590</id>
	<title>Re:stationary bikes with alternator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://apis.videosurf.com/webui/inc/go.php?redirect=http\%3A\%2F\%2Frevision3.com\%2Fsystm\%2Fhackedups&amp;client\_id=revision3" title="videosurf.com">This</a> [videosurf.com] is a much better solution. Plus, it can melt your face!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This [ videosurf.com ] is a much better solution .
Plus , it can melt your face !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This [videosurf.com] is a much better solution.
Plus, it can melt your face!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128668</id>
	<title>Larger UPS</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1266089400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; It sounds like you may have outgrown the traditional "UPS".  They're fine and dandy as long as you're only powering so much equipment.  There are some huge options (large in physical size, and more so in price).</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; A decent alternative may be a DC power room, with generator backup.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Basically, you have banks of batteries, with true sine wave power inverters on them.  The power coming in goes to charge controllers.  Depending on how you set up, these can get pricey too.  There are some nice (and expensive) units that handle both the charge controlling and inverting, and will automatically switch between the incoming power and batteries.  Look at the higher end Xantrex units, made for on/off grid purposes.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The less expensive way would be to break up your battery banks by power circuit.  Say a 15A power circuit per set.  Put a dependable inverter on the rack side of the batteries, and a good charge controller on the line side.  Separate inverters for each circuit may not seem like the best idea, and the overall efficiency will hurt because of it, but an inverter failure will only mean one circuit goes down, not the whole place.  It's affordable to keep a few spare $300 inverters on hand, where it's harder to ask for a few spare $3,000 inverters.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; You'll also want an automatic crossover, if your line power should fail, you can bring up a generator.  The batteries shouldn't be intended to last for hours.  They should only last as long as it takes to bring up the generator (say 1 minute).  Expect that there may be generator problems though.  In a prolonged outage, you may need to shut down the generator to refuel, so the batteries may need to last for hours.   At very least, if your generator fails, and line power doesn't come back up, you have that hour to gracefully shut down your equipment.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Such a setup can be made to make your company more "green" too.  Are you in a situation where you could put a large array of solar panels on the roof, and have enough battery power to last you through the night and then some?  You could bring your power bill down to almost nil, or possibly feed back to the power grid (with the appropriate permission and power meter), and make a little money in the process.  The long term savings may warrant a raise for you.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; There are plenty of consultants that can evaluate your needs, and provide the appropriate solutions.  As you talk to various consultants, several will say the others are giving you bad advice.  Look at all of them, and research them for yourself before making a decision.  Remember too, it's in *their* best interest to sell you the most expensive units possible, while you probably want the most reliable and cost effective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    It sounds like you may have outgrown the traditional " UPS " .
They 're fine and dandy as long as you 're only powering so much equipment .
There are some huge options ( large in physical size , and more so in price ) .
    A decent alternative may be a DC power room , with generator backup .
    Basically , you have banks of batteries , with true sine wave power inverters on them .
The power coming in goes to charge controllers .
Depending on how you set up , these can get pricey too .
There are some nice ( and expensive ) units that handle both the charge controlling and inverting , and will automatically switch between the incoming power and batteries .
Look at the higher end Xantrex units , made for on/off grid purposes .
    The less expensive way would be to break up your battery banks by power circuit .
Say a 15A power circuit per set .
Put a dependable inverter on the rack side of the batteries , and a good charge controller on the line side .
Separate inverters for each circuit may not seem like the best idea , and the overall efficiency will hurt because of it , but an inverter failure will only mean one circuit goes down , not the whole place .
It 's affordable to keep a few spare $ 300 inverters on hand , where it 's harder to ask for a few spare $ 3,000 inverters .
    You 'll also want an automatic crossover , if your line power should fail , you can bring up a generator .
The batteries should n't be intended to last for hours .
They should only last as long as it takes to bring up the generator ( say 1 minute ) .
Expect that there may be generator problems though .
In a prolonged outage , you may need to shut down the generator to refuel , so the batteries may need to last for hours .
At very least , if your generator fails , and line power does n't come back up , you have that hour to gracefully shut down your equipment .
    Such a setup can be made to make your company more " green " too .
Are you in a situation where you could put a large array of solar panels on the roof , and have enough battery power to last you through the night and then some ?
You could bring your power bill down to almost nil , or possibly feed back to the power grid ( with the appropriate permission and power meter ) , and make a little money in the process .
The long term savings may warrant a raise for you .
: )     There are plenty of consultants that can evaluate your needs , and provide the appropriate solutions .
As you talk to various consultants , several will say the others are giving you bad advice .
Look at all of them , and research them for yourself before making a decision .
Remember too , it 's in * their * best interest to sell you the most expensive units possible , while you probably want the most reliable and cost effective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    It sounds like you may have outgrown the traditional "UPS".
They're fine and dandy as long as you're only powering so much equipment.
There are some huge options (large in physical size, and more so in price).
    A decent alternative may be a DC power room, with generator backup.
    Basically, you have banks of batteries, with true sine wave power inverters on them.
The power coming in goes to charge controllers.
Depending on how you set up, these can get pricey too.
There are some nice (and expensive) units that handle both the charge controlling and inverting, and will automatically switch between the incoming power and batteries.
Look at the higher end Xantrex units, made for on/off grid purposes.
    The less expensive way would be to break up your battery banks by power circuit.
Say a 15A power circuit per set.
Put a dependable inverter on the rack side of the batteries, and a good charge controller on the line side.
Separate inverters for each circuit may not seem like the best idea, and the overall efficiency will hurt because of it, but an inverter failure will only mean one circuit goes down, not the whole place.
It's affordable to keep a few spare $300 inverters on hand, where it's harder to ask for a few spare $3,000 inverters.
    You'll also want an automatic crossover, if your line power should fail, you can bring up a generator.
The batteries shouldn't be intended to last for hours.
They should only last as long as it takes to bring up the generator (say 1 minute).
Expect that there may be generator problems though.
In a prolonged outage, you may need to shut down the generator to refuel, so the batteries may need to last for hours.
At very least, if your generator fails, and line power doesn't come back up, you have that hour to gracefully shut down your equipment.
    Such a setup can be made to make your company more "green" too.
Are you in a situation where you could put a large array of solar panels on the roof, and have enough battery power to last you through the night and then some?
You could bring your power bill down to almost nil, or possibly feed back to the power grid (with the appropriate permission and power meter), and make a little money in the process.
The long term savings may warrant a raise for you.
:)
    There are plenty of consultants that can evaluate your needs, and provide the appropriate solutions.
As you talk to various consultants, several will say the others are giving you bad advice.
Look at all of them, and research them for yourself before making a decision.
Remember too, it's in *their* best interest to sell you the most expensive units possible, while you probably want the most reliable and cost effective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130286</id>
	<title>APC has this covered</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266058920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>APC sells a Symmetra 3-phase UPS from 20kA to 80kA.  The small ones only take up a whole cabinet.  Run two power distribution units to each rack and plug the redundant server power supplies into different PDUs.</p><p>Batteries are hot-swap able.<br>power can be switched to bypass if the unit itself needs to be serviced.<br>Modules are available that connect to the network to provide monitoring and alerting capabilities.<br>software is provided that monitors the UPS and will shutdown servers if battery runtime gets too low.<br>APC can be contracted to perform annual or bi-annual maintenance.<br>The unit is very expandable should your needs grow, and is usually as simple as adding an additional power unit or just more batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>APC sells a Symmetra 3-phase UPS from 20kA to 80kA .
The small ones only take up a whole cabinet .
Run two power distribution units to each rack and plug the redundant server power supplies into different PDUs.Batteries are hot-swap able.power can be switched to bypass if the unit itself needs to be serviced.Modules are available that connect to the network to provide monitoring and alerting capabilities.software is provided that monitors the UPS and will shutdown servers if battery runtime gets too low.APC can be contracted to perform annual or bi-annual maintenance.The unit is very expandable should your needs grow , and is usually as simple as adding an additional power unit or just more batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>APC sells a Symmetra 3-phase UPS from 20kA to 80kA.
The small ones only take up a whole cabinet.
Run two power distribution units to each rack and plug the redundant server power supplies into different PDUs.Batteries are hot-swap able.power can be switched to bypass if the unit itself needs to be serviced.Modules are available that connect to the network to provide monitoring and alerting capabilities.software is provided that monitors the UPS and will shutdown servers if battery runtime gets too low.APC can be contracted to perform annual or bi-annual maintenance.The unit is very expandable should your needs grow, and is usually as simple as adding an additional power unit or just more batteries.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128798</id>
	<title>Re:Have you tested the UPS lately?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266090360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a $3000 UPS to keep a big Sun alive. After a couple of years they're $99 on ebay with dead batteries. But they have some of the cleanest pure sine wave power you ever saw. Best. Inverters. Ever. Capish?</p><p>The batteries last 5 years then you replace them, period. They're "Sealed lead acid" or "SLA", in plastic cases with two tabs. They come in various sizes. Get the same ones. Be careful where you get them. $8 batteries off ebay tend to be $40 in the wrong store, for example, one is the same as a chair lift, and the medical devices store that have them in stock want $40 ea. Of course shipping LEAD acid batteries ain't cheap.</p><p>The batteries for the UPC2200, just as an example, are $150 new for the pair plus shipping. $99 for the chassis (plus shipping and they're ungodly heavy without the batteries) and you have a $3000 UPS.</p><p>That'll keep a small server running for a while if you give them one each. But you'd have to be a bit of a dick to have a dozen of these running a dozen servers, what you want is a one ton 12V battery, the kind your phone CO might use, a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down. That's the proper way to do it. Once a year they come out and recharge your battery for a small fee. These batteries cost a grand or two but last a long time. Refurbs are fine.</p><p>The other nice thing about big batteries is if you get wind or solar stuff added on the to the<br>building you can just wire that power in to the battery with no charge controller. Cause, uh, there's no fear your solar panels are gonna overcharge a ONE TON battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a $ 3000 UPS to keep a big Sun alive .
After a couple of years they 're $ 99 on ebay with dead batteries .
But they have some of the cleanest pure sine wave power you ever saw .
Best. Inverters .
Ever. Capish ? The batteries last 5 years then you replace them , period .
They 're " Sealed lead acid " or " SLA " , in plastic cases with two tabs .
They come in various sizes .
Get the same ones .
Be careful where you get them .
$ 8 batteries off ebay tend to be $ 40 in the wrong store , for example , one is the same as a chair lift , and the medical devices store that have them in stock want $ 40 ea .
Of course shipping LEAD acid batteries ai n't cheap.The batteries for the UPC2200 , just as an example , are $ 150 new for the pair plus shipping .
$ 99 for the chassis ( plus shipping and they 're ungodly heavy without the batteries ) and you have a $ 3000 UPS.That 'll keep a small server running for a while if you give them one each .
But you 'd have to be a bit of a dick to have a dozen of these running a dozen servers , what you want is a one ton 12V battery , the kind your phone CO might use , a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down .
That 's the proper way to do it .
Once a year they come out and recharge your battery for a small fee .
These batteries cost a grand or two but last a long time .
Refurbs are fine.The other nice thing about big batteries is if you get wind or solar stuff added on the to thebuilding you can just wire that power in to the battery with no charge controller .
Cause , uh , there 's no fear your solar panels are gon na overcharge a ONE TON battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a $3000 UPS to keep a big Sun alive.
After a couple of years they're $99 on ebay with dead batteries.
But they have some of the cleanest pure sine wave power you ever saw.
Best. Inverters.
Ever. Capish?The batteries last 5 years then you replace them, period.
They're "Sealed lead acid" or "SLA", in plastic cases with two tabs.
They come in various sizes.
Get the same ones.
Be careful where you get them.
$8 batteries off ebay tend to be $40 in the wrong store, for example, one is the same as a chair lift, and the medical devices store that have them in stock want $40 ea.
Of course shipping LEAD acid batteries ain't cheap.The batteries for the UPC2200, just as an example, are $150 new for the pair plus shipping.
$99 for the chassis (plus shipping and they're ungodly heavy without the batteries) and you have a $3000 UPS.That'll keep a small server running for a while if you give them one each.
But you'd have to be a bit of a dick to have a dozen of these running a dozen servers, what you want is a one ton 12V battery, the kind your phone CO might use, a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down.
That's the proper way to do it.
Once a year they come out and recharge your battery for a small fee.
These batteries cost a grand or two but last a long time.
Refurbs are fine.The other nice thing about big batteries is if you get wind or solar stuff added on the to thebuilding you can just wire that power in to the battery with no charge controller.
Cause, uh, there's no fear your solar panels are gonna overcharge a ONE TON battery.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128580</id>
	<title>A second site</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1266088800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With redundant connection.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With redundant connection .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>With redundant connection.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128556</id>
	<title>Generator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a generator that can power things from natural gas (or other available resource).</p><p>So when the power goes out, it will be seconds before the generator kicks on and the UPS are just there to keep power available until the generator is ready.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a generator that can power things from natural gas ( or other available resource ) .So when the power goes out , it will be seconds before the generator kicks on and the UPS are just there to keep power available until the generator is ready .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a generator that can power things from natural gas (or other available resource).So when the power goes out, it will be seconds before the generator kicks on and the UPS are just there to keep power available until the generator is ready.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131774</id>
	<title>Use laptops</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266073860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've started using laptops for internal servers. You should too. They're small, energy efficient, and have huge upss</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've started using laptops for internal servers .
You should too .
They 're small , energy efficient , and have huge upss</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've started using laptops for internal servers.
You should too.
They're small, energy efficient, and have huge upss</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129828</id>
	<title>Lease a generator set</title>
	<author>slincolne</author>
	<datestamp>1266054840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lease a genset.  Don't buy - lease.<p>
Lease companies take care of the messy bits like maintenance, and you don't need to worry about the ability of the technicians - it's the companies problem.</p><p>
Of course as part of this you will probably need to review the state of your existing UPS's - if they are no longer covered by the manufacturers warranty then the batteries probably need replacing by now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lease a genset .
Do n't buy - lease .
Lease companies take care of the messy bits like maintenance , and you do n't need to worry about the ability of the technicians - it 's the companies problem .
Of course as part of this you will probably need to review the state of your existing UPS 's - if they are no longer covered by the manufacturers warranty then the batteries probably need replacing by now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lease a genset.
Don't buy - lease.
Lease companies take care of the messy bits like maintenance, and you don't need to worry about the ability of the technicians - it's the companies problem.
Of course as part of this you will probably need to review the state of your existing UPS's - if they are no longer covered by the manufacturers warranty then the batteries probably need replacing by now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133932</id>
	<title>deeya energy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266154860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>check out deeyaenergy,com, they build long kWh batteries which are cheaper to run than lead acid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>check out deeyaenergy,com , they build long kWh batteries which are cheaper to run than lead acid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>check out deeyaenergy,com, they build long kWh batteries which are cheaper to run than lead acid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132538</id>
	<title>Going cheep</title>
	<author>mcrbids</author>
	<datestamp>1266084300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Going cheap? I've had to. Here are a couple options that are surprisingly cheap:</p><p>1) If your UPS can actually handle the whole amperage of the servers, but the batteries only give you a few minutes, consider going to Wal-Mart or the nearest auto parts store and buying a few deep-cycle marine batteries. They aren't cheap, but they aren't exactly bank-busters, either. Find out how many volts your UPS is (typical voltages range from 12 to 48 volts and are basically always in 12-volt increments, EG: 12/24/48. If you are frightened by wiring work, finding an electrician buddy isn't too hard typically, but it's barely more complicated than jumper cables.</p><p>Years ago, I got ahold of 4 deep-cycle marine batteries that were about a year old for a song from an upgrade. I took apart my craptastic APC UPS and wired in the deep-cycle marine batteries. It worked fabulously for about 3-4 years, and gave me some 8 hours of battery life for my two small servers. With the bigger batteries, the UPS wouldn't even start a low-voltage warning beep for nearly an hour when the power went out!</p><p>2) The other option is probably one you hadn't considered, because you thought it would be "expensive" - and that's a dedicated colo. Surprisingly, you can get a half-rack and a burstable 100 Mbit Internet connection at a colo starting at about $200 or so per month. And as the amount of bandwidth being consumed climbs, the deal gets even sweeter.</p><p>I have 10 servers in a half rack serving hundreds of high-paying clients, our company's primary revenue is in a complex, hosted application, and our hosting bill is less than either our office power or our phone bill. Despite this, we make sure to brag everywhere we can about the high quality of our hosting! If your needs exceed a certain minimum, dedicated hosting is the way to go, and we have redundant power, redundant network feeds, all the bandwidth we could ever use, and 24x7 monitoring to boot! It's a really, really good deal if your needs are compatible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Going cheap ?
I 've had to .
Here are a couple options that are surprisingly cheap : 1 ) If your UPS can actually handle the whole amperage of the servers , but the batteries only give you a few minutes , consider going to Wal-Mart or the nearest auto parts store and buying a few deep-cycle marine batteries .
They are n't cheap , but they are n't exactly bank-busters , either .
Find out how many volts your UPS is ( typical voltages range from 12 to 48 volts and are basically always in 12-volt increments , EG : 12/24/48 .
If you are frightened by wiring work , finding an electrician buddy is n't too hard typically , but it 's barely more complicated than jumper cables.Years ago , I got ahold of 4 deep-cycle marine batteries that were about a year old for a song from an upgrade .
I took apart my craptastic APC UPS and wired in the deep-cycle marine batteries .
It worked fabulously for about 3-4 years , and gave me some 8 hours of battery life for my two small servers .
With the bigger batteries , the UPS would n't even start a low-voltage warning beep for nearly an hour when the power went out ! 2 ) The other option is probably one you had n't considered , because you thought it would be " expensive " - and that 's a dedicated colo. Surprisingly , you can get a half-rack and a burstable 100 Mbit Internet connection at a colo starting at about $ 200 or so per month .
And as the amount of bandwidth being consumed climbs , the deal gets even sweeter.I have 10 servers in a half rack serving hundreds of high-paying clients , our company 's primary revenue is in a complex , hosted application , and our hosting bill is less than either our office power or our phone bill .
Despite this , we make sure to brag everywhere we can about the high quality of our hosting !
If your needs exceed a certain minimum , dedicated hosting is the way to go , and we have redundant power , redundant network feeds , all the bandwidth we could ever use , and 24x7 monitoring to boot !
It 's a really , really good deal if your needs are compatible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Going cheap?
I've had to.
Here are a couple options that are surprisingly cheap:1) If your UPS can actually handle the whole amperage of the servers, but the batteries only give you a few minutes, consider going to Wal-Mart or the nearest auto parts store and buying a few deep-cycle marine batteries.
They aren't cheap, but they aren't exactly bank-busters, either.
Find out how many volts your UPS is (typical voltages range from 12 to 48 volts and are basically always in 12-volt increments, EG: 12/24/48.
If you are frightened by wiring work, finding an electrician buddy isn't too hard typically, but it's barely more complicated than jumper cables.Years ago, I got ahold of 4 deep-cycle marine batteries that were about a year old for a song from an upgrade.
I took apart my craptastic APC UPS and wired in the deep-cycle marine batteries.
It worked fabulously for about 3-4 years, and gave me some 8 hours of battery life for my two small servers.
With the bigger batteries, the UPS wouldn't even start a low-voltage warning beep for nearly an hour when the power went out!2) The other option is probably one you hadn't considered, because you thought it would be "expensive" - and that's a dedicated colo. Surprisingly, you can get a half-rack and a burstable 100 Mbit Internet connection at a colo starting at about $200 or so per month.
And as the amount of bandwidth being consumed climbs, the deal gets even sweeter.I have 10 servers in a half rack serving hundreds of high-paying clients, our company's primary revenue is in a complex, hosted application, and our hosting bill is less than either our office power or our phone bill.
Despite this, we make sure to brag everywhere we can about the high quality of our hosting!
If your needs exceed a certain minimum, dedicated hosting is the way to go, and we have redundant power, redundant network feeds, all the bandwidth we could ever use, and 24x7 monitoring to boot!
It's a really, really good deal if your needs are compatible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128778</id>
	<title>Re:Have you tested the UPS lately?</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1266090240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The trouble with most UPS battery tests is they involve putting the stuff on battery...<br><br>If you have a server with redundant power supplies- then you can have each power supply attached to a different UPS, then you can test each UPS one by one, hopefully without the server going down due to one UPS failing the battery test.<br><br>You don't necessarily want to shutdown immediately. I have my machine shutdown once the software thinks there's only X seconds of battery life left. Set X to something high enough so that there's enough time to shutdown AND cold boot AND shutdown again... Otherwise in event of a shutdown you will have to wait some hours till the UPS is charged enough before it is safe to power up - in case the power company or whoever cuts power on you half way during your boot up<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The trouble with most UPS battery tests is they involve putting the stuff on battery...If you have a server with redundant power supplies- then you can have each power supply attached to a different UPS , then you can test each UPS one by one , hopefully without the server going down due to one UPS failing the battery test.You do n't necessarily want to shutdown immediately .
I have my machine shutdown once the software thinks there 's only X seconds of battery life left .
Set X to something high enough so that there 's enough time to shutdown AND cold boot AND shutdown again... Otherwise in event of a shutdown you will have to wait some hours till the UPS is charged enough before it is safe to power up - in case the power company or whoever cuts power on you half way during your boot up : ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The trouble with most UPS battery tests is they involve putting the stuff on battery...If you have a server with redundant power supplies- then you can have each power supply attached to a different UPS, then you can test each UPS one by one, hopefully without the server going down due to one UPS failing the battery test.You don't necessarily want to shutdown immediately.
I have my machine shutdown once the software thinks there's only X seconds of battery life left.
Set X to something high enough so that there's enough time to shutdown AND cold boot AND shutdown again... Otherwise in event of a shutdown you will have to wait some hours till the UPS is charged enough before it is safe to power up - in case the power company or whoever cuts power on you half way during your boot up :).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131124</id>
	<title>Re:Generator</title>
	<author>tigerbody1</author>
	<datestamp>1266066660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, get a generator with some kind of auto-start feature.

At an ISP I started, we put the generator on the roof.
We still had some UPS's, because a generator is not "instant on."

And get some of the UPS's that you add External batteries to, as you can manage those batteries.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , get a generator with some kind of auto-start feature .
At an ISP I started , we put the generator on the roof .
We still had some UPS 's , because a generator is not " instant on .
" And get some of the UPS 's that you add External batteries to , as you can manage those batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, get a generator with some kind of auto-start feature.
At an ISP I started, we put the generator on the roof.
We still had some UPS's, because a generator is not "instant on.
"

And get some of the UPS's that you add External batteries to, as you can manage those batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128640</id>
	<title>30 people</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And one UPS per <i>rack</i>. Is that like 2 servers each?</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And one UPS per rack .
Is that like 2 servers each ?
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>And one UPS per rack.
Is that like 2 servers each?
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130734</id>
	<title>Are you electrical code compliant?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266062700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sound like you're big enough to have a "computer room" (even if it's just a closet).. Once you get to that point, you need to start involving professionals in the design.  Have you looked at Emergency Power Off switching for the DC bus (so the firefighters don't get electrocuted)? What about fusing of that battery bank? (DC rated fuses and switches?)  What about venting requirements?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sound like you 're big enough to have a " computer room " ( even if it 's just a closet ) .. Once you get to that point , you need to start involving professionals in the design .
Have you looked at Emergency Power Off switching for the DC bus ( so the firefighters do n't get electrocuted ) ?
What about fusing of that battery bank ?
( DC rated fuses and switches ?
) What about venting requirements ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sound like you're big enough to have a "computer room" (even if it's just a closet).. Once you get to that point, you need to start involving professionals in the design.
Have you looked at Emergency Power Off switching for the DC bus (so the firefighters don't get electrocuted)?
What about fusing of that battery bank?
(DC rated fuses and switches?
)  What about venting requirements?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132102</id>
	<title>Don't forget server cooling</title>
	<author>dan\_barrett</author>
	<datestamp>1266078120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our site runs 24/7.</p><p>We have two Eaton Powerware UPS'es running our server room in tandem. They are linked so they stay in phase with each other and incoming mains power. both UPS'es run at about 40\% capacity, so if we lose one, or need to shut one down for maintenance, the other can handle the whole server room. We've had problems in the past with UPS'es suddenly failing; so our critical gear runs on the assumption we'll have a UPS fail again at some point, or we can at least keep running whie we change out a UPS and/or it's batteries.</p><p>Our setup is designed to keep everything running until our diesel genset kicks in, usually within 2 minutes or so - I think the UPS'es have about 15 minutes capacity at full load.  If that fails to start then the UPS monitoring software gracefully shuts everything down. We test everything every three months by simulating a power loss (ie, we put the relevant apps in maintenance mode, throw the mains power switch and watch what happens.)</p><p>The genset also powers the airconditioning in the server room. There's no point keeping your servers running for hours if they're not kept cool; they're just going to cook once your server room gets over 50 degrees anyway.<br>If you're expecting to run on backup power for more than an hour or so, make sure your backup power solution can handle your cooling requirements too!  Also make sure your cooling comes back on when power is restored!</p><p>By the way, some people are saying "secondary site instead" - in my opinion you need both; ie a disaster recovery site and backup power for both sites.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our site runs 24/7.We have two Eaton Powerware UPS'es running our server room in tandem .
They are linked so they stay in phase with each other and incoming mains power .
both UPS'es run at about 40 \ % capacity , so if we lose one , or need to shut one down for maintenance , the other can handle the whole server room .
We 've had problems in the past with UPS'es suddenly failing ; so our critical gear runs on the assumption we 'll have a UPS fail again at some point , or we can at least keep running whie we change out a UPS and/or it 's batteries.Our setup is designed to keep everything running until our diesel genset kicks in , usually within 2 minutes or so - I think the UPS'es have about 15 minutes capacity at full load .
If that fails to start then the UPS monitoring software gracefully shuts everything down .
We test everything every three months by simulating a power loss ( ie , we put the relevant apps in maintenance mode , throw the mains power switch and watch what happens .
) The genset also powers the airconditioning in the server room .
There 's no point keeping your servers running for hours if they 're not kept cool ; they 're just going to cook once your server room gets over 50 degrees anyway.If you 're expecting to run on backup power for more than an hour or so , make sure your backup power solution can handle your cooling requirements too !
Also make sure your cooling comes back on when power is restored ! By the way , some people are saying " secondary site instead " - in my opinion you need both ; ie a disaster recovery site and backup power for both sites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our site runs 24/7.We have two Eaton Powerware UPS'es running our server room in tandem.
They are linked so they stay in phase with each other and incoming mains power.
both UPS'es run at about 40\% capacity, so if we lose one, or need to shut one down for maintenance, the other can handle the whole server room.
We've had problems in the past with UPS'es suddenly failing; so our critical gear runs on the assumption we'll have a UPS fail again at some point, or we can at least keep running whie we change out a UPS and/or it's batteries.Our setup is designed to keep everything running until our diesel genset kicks in, usually within 2 minutes or so - I think the UPS'es have about 15 minutes capacity at full load.
If that fails to start then the UPS monitoring software gracefully shuts everything down.
We test everything every three months by simulating a power loss (ie, we put the relevant apps in maintenance mode, throw the mains power switch and watch what happens.
)The genset also powers the airconditioning in the server room.
There's no point keeping your servers running for hours if they're not kept cool; they're just going to cook once your server room gets over 50 degrees anyway.If you're expecting to run on backup power for more than an hour or so, make sure your backup power solution can handle your cooling requirements too!
Also make sure your cooling comes back on when power is restored!By the way, some people are saying "secondary site instead" - in my opinion you need both; ie a disaster recovery site and backup power for both sites.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128686</id>
	<title>Cost of UPS vs Colo?</title>
	<author>Hadlock</author>
	<datestamp>1266089580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's the cost of a good set of UPSes vs simply migrating to a Colo &amp; fatter pipes? Datacenters (most of them anyways) promise at least a few hours of generator uptime, and it sounds like you're already using a colo somewhere (dns relocation, etc).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's the cost of a good set of UPSes vs simply migrating to a Colo &amp; fatter pipes ?
Datacenters ( most of them anyways ) promise at least a few hours of generator uptime , and it sounds like you 're already using a colo somewhere ( dns relocation , etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's the cost of a good set of UPSes vs simply migrating to a Colo &amp; fatter pipes?
Datacenters (most of them anyways) promise at least a few hours of generator uptime, and it sounds like you're already using a colo somewhere (dns relocation, etc).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128632</id>
	<title>Network UPS Tools</title>
	<author>Yonatanz</author>
	<datestamp>1266089100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The open source world has <a href="http://www.networkupstools.org/" title="networkupstools.org" rel="nofollow">NUT</a> [networkupstools.org] to offer (Network UPS Tools).</p><p>We've been using it at work for all our critical servers. It works with pretty much all UPSes, and on pretty much any production OS, so you can use your existing servers and just buy whatever hardware the budget affords.</p><p>The linux/unix servers and clients are excellent, and there is a reasonable Windows port for the client (which we've modified a little to suit our needs).</p><p>The cost is just your sysadmin's time, as with all F/OSS solutions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The open source world has NUT [ networkupstools.org ] to offer ( Network UPS Tools ) .We 've been using it at work for all our critical servers .
It works with pretty much all UPSes , and on pretty much any production OS , so you can use your existing servers and just buy whatever hardware the budget affords.The linux/unix servers and clients are excellent , and there is a reasonable Windows port for the client ( which we 've modified a little to suit our needs ) .The cost is just your sysadmin 's time , as with all F/OSS solutions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The open source world has NUT [networkupstools.org] to offer (Network UPS Tools).We've been using it at work for all our critical servers.
It works with pretty much all UPSes, and on pretty much any production OS, so you can use your existing servers and just buy whatever hardware the budget affords.The linux/unix servers and clients are excellent, and there is a reasonable Windows port for the client (which we've modified a little to suit our needs).The cost is just your sysadmin's time, as with all F/OSS solutions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128730</id>
	<title>Shill detected</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can smell the curry from here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can smell the curry from here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can smell the curry from here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128794</id>
	<title>Leave it to the professionals</title>
	<author>chill</author>
	<datestamp>1266090360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Co-locate your equipment at a carrier-grade data center in the nearest major city to your location and get a leased line to your premises.  A decent data center will have proper battery backup and generators and know how to handle it.  They'll also have the time and manpower to do proper tests, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Co-locate your equipment at a carrier-grade data center in the nearest major city to your location and get a leased line to your premises .
A decent data center will have proper battery backup and generators and know how to handle it .
They 'll also have the time and manpower to do proper tests , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Co-locate your equipment at a carrier-grade data center in the nearest major city to your location and get a leased line to your premises.
A decent data center will have proper battery backup and generators and know how to handle it.
They'll also have the time and manpower to do proper tests, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131426</id>
	<title>Very simple recommendation...</title>
	<author>RobertM1968</author>
	<datestamp>1266069960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>- Determine your power usage per UPS
</p><p>- Look at the runtime specs (at that load) for a new UPS
</p><p>- Purchase the new UPS.

</p><p>It's really almost that simple. Really.

</p><p>The only other considerations are
</p><p>(a) Realizing getting an "el-cheapo" UPS is often a great way of ensuring failure
</p><p>(b) Properly determining any other needs the UPS should handle (active line filtering, etc)

</p><p>That's pretty much it. Yes, it may cost you more money than you want to spend, but sometimes spending the money is the only option.

</p><p>Now, there are other alternatives that may save some money.
</p><p>- Find a <b>used</b> UPS that has inexpensive batteries. Before purchase, make sure all the electronics/charging circuit(s) are functional. Then purchase it and replace the batteries. I've scored 3 decent APC UPS that way and then replaced the batteries in them, leaving me with three "virtually new" UPS units for far cheaper than buying the exact same units new.

</p><p>- Find a <b>new</b> or <b>used</b> UPS that does <b>NOT</b> meet your needs <b>but</b> allows adding battery expansion modules. But first, research it for "aftermarket" expansion methods. As an example, the APC UPS units I have allow such. I can "simply" find the correct AGM batteries, wire them correctly and hook them up directly to the battery harness for my unit... apparently, some crafty people out there have used the same model UPS in such manner and gotten DAYS worth of runtime. Of course, it also means DAYS worth of charging time.

</p><p>- Look for an alternative method of power backup, such as an "instant" on generator that is "electronics <b>AND</b> computer rated" (and then <b>still</b> run the UPSs on the inside end of it and ensure they do line filtering, sine wave correction and power out-of-range (brownouts, over-voltage) protection.

</p><p>- Create your own UPS units using high quality true-sine inverters and decent deep-cycle batteries. You can find the inverters for such at any decent "off-the-grid"/solar supplier. Get one that will recharge the batteries when main power is restored. Also ensure it can charge as many batteries as you need for the required runtime. The advantage of this method is, with the correct inverter, you can add a ton (possibly literally) of batteries to have massive amounts of runtime - and you can buy higher Ah batteries cheaper. Ensure the batteries are properly cabled, stored and (sealed or otherwise) vented.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>- Determine your power usage per UPS - Look at the runtime specs ( at that load ) for a new UPS - Purchase the new UPS .
It 's really almost that simple .
Really . The only other considerations are ( a ) Realizing getting an " el-cheapo " UPS is often a great way of ensuring failure ( b ) Properly determining any other needs the UPS should handle ( active line filtering , etc ) That 's pretty much it .
Yes , it may cost you more money than you want to spend , but sometimes spending the money is the only option .
Now , there are other alternatives that may save some money .
- Find a used UPS that has inexpensive batteries .
Before purchase , make sure all the electronics/charging circuit ( s ) are functional .
Then purchase it and replace the batteries .
I 've scored 3 decent APC UPS that way and then replaced the batteries in them , leaving me with three " virtually new " UPS units for far cheaper than buying the exact same units new .
- Find a new or used UPS that does NOT meet your needs but allows adding battery expansion modules .
But first , research it for " aftermarket " expansion methods .
As an example , the APC UPS units I have allow such .
I can " simply " find the correct AGM batteries , wire them correctly and hook them up directly to the battery harness for my unit... apparently , some crafty people out there have used the same model UPS in such manner and gotten DAYS worth of runtime .
Of course , it also means DAYS worth of charging time .
- Look for an alternative method of power backup , such as an " instant " on generator that is " electronics AND computer rated " ( and then still run the UPSs on the inside end of it and ensure they do line filtering , sine wave correction and power out-of-range ( brownouts , over-voltage ) protection .
- Create your own UPS units using high quality true-sine inverters and decent deep-cycle batteries .
You can find the inverters for such at any decent " off-the-grid " /solar supplier .
Get one that will recharge the batteries when main power is restored .
Also ensure it can charge as many batteries as you need for the required runtime .
The advantage of this method is , with the correct inverter , you can add a ton ( possibly literally ) of batteries to have massive amounts of runtime - and you can buy higher Ah batteries cheaper .
Ensure the batteries are properly cabled , stored and ( sealed or otherwise ) vented .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- Determine your power usage per UPS
- Look at the runtime specs (at that load) for a new UPS
- Purchase the new UPS.
It's really almost that simple.
Really.

The only other considerations are
(a) Realizing getting an "el-cheapo" UPS is often a great way of ensuring failure
(b) Properly determining any other needs the UPS should handle (active line filtering, etc)

That's pretty much it.
Yes, it may cost you more money than you want to spend, but sometimes spending the money is the only option.
Now, there are other alternatives that may save some money.
- Find a used UPS that has inexpensive batteries.
Before purchase, make sure all the electronics/charging circuit(s) are functional.
Then purchase it and replace the batteries.
I've scored 3 decent APC UPS that way and then replaced the batteries in them, leaving me with three "virtually new" UPS units for far cheaper than buying the exact same units new.
- Find a new or used UPS that does NOT meet your needs but allows adding battery expansion modules.
But first, research it for "aftermarket" expansion methods.
As an example, the APC UPS units I have allow such.
I can "simply" find the correct AGM batteries, wire them correctly and hook them up directly to the battery harness for my unit... apparently, some crafty people out there have used the same model UPS in such manner and gotten DAYS worth of runtime.
Of course, it also means DAYS worth of charging time.
- Look for an alternative method of power backup, such as an "instant" on generator that is "electronics AND computer rated" (and then still run the UPSs on the inside end of it and ensure they do line filtering, sine wave correction and power out-of-range (brownouts, over-voltage) protection.
- Create your own UPS units using high quality true-sine inverters and decent deep-cycle batteries.
You can find the inverters for such at any decent "off-the-grid"/solar supplier.
Get one that will recharge the batteries when main power is restored.
Also ensure it can charge as many batteries as you need for the required runtime.
The advantage of this method is, with the correct inverter, you can add a ton (possibly literally) of batteries to have massive amounts of runtime - and you can buy higher Ah batteries cheaper.
Ensure the batteries are properly cabled, stored and (sealed or otherwise) vented.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133814</id>
	<title>No Matter What UPS Specs Say...</title>
	<author>CAOgdin</author>
	<datestamp>1266152580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...Don't Believe Them.

Most UPS' are woefully under-powered, with the intent to offer only a few minutes of uptime.  I'm looking for a solution that uses external automobile batteries, instead of those "convenient" internal, sealed batteries.

I recently acquired a 3,000 VA Rackmount UPS and with the load of a single 5W clock (to measure runtime), it was dead in 8 hours!  About 2/3 of power in the batteries is used just to power the DC-to-AC converters, so count on a lot less power usable than specified.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Do n't Believe Them .
Most UPS ' are woefully under-powered , with the intent to offer only a few minutes of uptime .
I 'm looking for a solution that uses external automobile batteries , instead of those " convenient " internal , sealed batteries .
I recently acquired a 3,000 VA Rackmount UPS and with the load of a single 5W clock ( to measure runtime ) , it was dead in 8 hours !
About 2/3 of power in the batteries is used just to power the DC-to-AC converters , so count on a lot less power usable than specified .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Don't Believe Them.
Most UPS' are woefully under-powered, with the intent to offer only a few minutes of uptime.
I'm looking for a solution that uses external automobile batteries, instead of those "convenient" internal, sealed batteries.
I recently acquired a 3,000 VA Rackmount UPS and with the load of a single 5W clock (to measure runtime), it was dead in 8 hours!
About 2/3 of power in the batteries is used just to power the DC-to-AC converters, so count on a lot less power usable than specified.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128942</id>
	<title>Re:APC SmartUPS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266091500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors, is that I don't really care if the loose power while running</i> </p><p>I don't want to be anywhere in you server room when your UPS sets power on the loose all over the server room. Don't Taze me Bro!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors , is that I do n't really care if the loose power while running I do n't want to be anywhere in you server room when your UPS sets power on the loose all over the server room .
Do n't Taze me Bro !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The rational behind having dedicated UPS monitors, is that I don't really care if the loose power while running I don't want to be anywhere in you server room when your UPS sets power on the loose all over the server room.
Don't Taze me Bro!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131024</id>
	<title>Re:APC SmartUPS, hibernate</title>
	<author>dfries</author>
	<datestamp>1266065520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have apcupsd setup so when the battery is a 50\% the system hibernates to disk.  That way when the power comes back on they pick up where they left off and an extended power outage turns into a break instead of trying to remember what was gone on.  I justify hibernating at 50\% battery left to avoid deep discharging the battery and there's a few minutes of reserve capacity if I really need something before the power comes back on.  The wake on lan feature is one thing I haven't implemented yet, and is needed for one of my systems that doesn't have a BIOS mode always turn on when it gets power.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have apcupsd setup so when the battery is a 50 \ % the system hibernates to disk .
That way when the power comes back on they pick up where they left off and an extended power outage turns into a break instead of trying to remember what was gone on .
I justify hibernating at 50 \ % battery left to avoid deep discharging the battery and there 's a few minutes of reserve capacity if I really need something before the power comes back on .
The wake on lan feature is one thing I have n't implemented yet , and is needed for one of my systems that does n't have a BIOS mode always turn on when it gets power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have apcupsd setup so when the battery is a 50\% the system hibernates to disk.
That way when the power comes back on they pick up where they left off and an extended power outage turns into a break instead of trying to remember what was gone on.
I justify hibernating at 50\% battery left to avoid deep discharging the battery and there's a few minutes of reserve capacity if I really need something before the power comes back on.
The wake on lan feature is one thing I haven't implemented yet, and is needed for one of my systems that doesn't have a BIOS mode always turn on when it gets power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128796</id>
	<title>virtual servers?</title>
	<author>oneiros27</author>
	<datestamp>1266090360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As you mention virtual servers, I'm going to guess that part of the problem is that you have large-ish servers.</p><p>My suggestion would be that if you have different uptime requirements for different services, to segregate them to different machines with a dedicated UPS.</p><p>Our office has between two to four 3000VA MGE Pulsars  per rack, depending on how much power they draw and how long we need to keep things up.  (Although APC now owns them, the MGEs are more power-dense than the APC Smart-UPS line, as they're only 2U each)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As you mention virtual servers , I 'm going to guess that part of the problem is that you have large-ish servers.My suggestion would be that if you have different uptime requirements for different services , to segregate them to different machines with a dedicated UPS.Our office has between two to four 3000VA MGE Pulsars per rack , depending on how much power they draw and how long we need to keep things up .
( Although APC now owns them , the MGEs are more power-dense than the APC Smart-UPS line , as they 're only 2U each )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As you mention virtual servers, I'm going to guess that part of the problem is that you have large-ish servers.My suggestion would be that if you have different uptime requirements for different services, to segregate them to different machines with a dedicated UPS.Our office has between two to four 3000VA MGE Pulsars  per rack, depending on how much power they draw and how long we need to keep things up.
(Although APC now owns them, the MGEs are more power-dense than the APC Smart-UPS line, as they're only 2U each)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129100</id>
	<title>Eaton is excellent</title>
	<author>wysiwig3</author>
	<datestamp>1266093000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I moved away from monster APC &amp; Leibert units a bit over a year ago, and I'm so glad.  I encourage you to look at the Powerware BladeUPS units.  Each provides 12kW capacity, with internal batteries and the ability to string two additional external battery modules (EBMs) for increased time.  In addition, the unit is stackable up to 6 high in a cabinet yielding 60kW (in an N+1) configuration.  You can grow it as you need it.  Nice Web/SNMP card that can be added for all the info you could want.  With the N+1 config, you can shut down any single unit for removal, repair, or battery swaps.  These things are so much less hassle than my old equipment that I won't be looking elsewhere for a while.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I moved away from monster APC &amp; Leibert units a bit over a year ago , and I 'm so glad .
I encourage you to look at the Powerware BladeUPS units .
Each provides 12kW capacity , with internal batteries and the ability to string two additional external battery modules ( EBMs ) for increased time .
In addition , the unit is stackable up to 6 high in a cabinet yielding 60kW ( in an N + 1 ) configuration .
You can grow it as you need it .
Nice Web/SNMP card that can be added for all the info you could want .
With the N + 1 config , you can shut down any single unit for removal , repair , or battery swaps .
These things are so much less hassle than my old equipment that I wo n't be looking elsewhere for a while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I moved away from monster APC &amp; Leibert units a bit over a year ago, and I'm so glad.
I encourage you to look at the Powerware BladeUPS units.
Each provides 12kW capacity, with internal batteries and the ability to string two additional external battery modules (EBMs) for increased time.
In addition, the unit is stackable up to 6 high in a cabinet yielding 60kW (in an N+1) configuration.
You can grow it as you need it.
Nice Web/SNMP card that can be added for all the info you could want.
With the N+1 config, you can shut down any single unit for removal, repair, or battery swaps.
These things are so much less hassle than my old equipment that I won't be looking elsewhere for a while.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128542</id>
	<title>Have you tested the UPS lately?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is sort of off topic, but when was the last time you tested the UPS units that were installed "some time ago". The batteries can eventually go flat. You better check what you have ASAP. You may need to replace them sooner than you think.</p><p>I can't remember the brand, but some of the higher end UPS units I have used came with monitoring software. They software polled the UPS unit, and started the shutdown as soon as a power failure caused the switch over to battery.</p><p>HTH.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is sort of off topic , but when was the last time you tested the UPS units that were installed " some time ago " .
The batteries can eventually go flat .
You better check what you have ASAP .
You may need to replace them sooner than you think.I ca n't remember the brand , but some of the higher end UPS units I have used came with monitoring software .
They software polled the UPS unit , and started the shutdown as soon as a power failure caused the switch over to battery.HTH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is sort of off topic, but when was the last time you tested the UPS units that were installed "some time ago".
The batteries can eventually go flat.
You better check what you have ASAP.
You may need to replace them sooner than you think.I can't remember the brand, but some of the higher end UPS units I have used came with monitoring software.
They software polled the UPS unit, and started the shutdown as soon as a power failure caused the switch over to battery.HTH.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128690</id>
	<title>Re:Generator</title>
	<author>mjwalshe</author>
	<datestamp>1266089580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except for the major incident at 365 Main where it didnt - a real UPS system is where the plant is always running off battery and the standby generator is tested every day!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except for the major incident at 365 Main where it didnt - a real UPS system is where the plant is always running off battery and the standby generator is tested every day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except for the major incident at 365 Main where it didnt - a real UPS system is where the plant is always running off battery and the standby generator is tested every day!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128938</id>
	<title>Re:Diesel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266091500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Natural gas is better in that you don't have to store fuel on site. The natural gas infrastructure is very good and the times it goes down, you have bigger problems (Earth quake).</p><p>Our local Menards has a small Caterpillar generator outside with gas run to it. The new ones are fully automated in that they'll start up once a week to make sure they work, automatic fail-over of power, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Natural gas is better in that you do n't have to store fuel on site .
The natural gas infrastructure is very good and the times it goes down , you have bigger problems ( Earth quake ) .Our local Menards has a small Caterpillar generator outside with gas run to it .
The new ones are fully automated in that they 'll start up once a week to make sure they work , automatic fail-over of power , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Natural gas is better in that you don't have to store fuel on site.
The natural gas infrastructure is very good and the times it goes down, you have bigger problems (Earth quake).Our local Menards has a small Caterpillar generator outside with gas run to it.
The new ones are fully automated in that they'll start up once a week to make sure they work, automatic fail-over of power, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132260</id>
	<title>Do my job for me, please?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266080160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We're a small company employing ~30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers. Unfortunately, the hosts they are on don't have redundant power supplies because we simply don't have the capacity. We currently have one UPS per rack, which gives us about two minutes. This may have been enough time when they were put in -- they've been there for some time -- but it isn't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure. Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes. So I'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected. Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice. Of course cost is a key factor too. so given all of the above, what does Slashdot recommend?</p></div></blockquote><p>Let me translate this for you: "I have no clue, don't have the slightest idea about how to gauge power requirements, despite the fact that I have access to all of the hardware, and, if I HAD a clue, could do this myself. So, please, do my job for me?"<br> <br>I am of the opinion that "Ask Slashdot" should be renamed to "Do my job for me" or "think for me" or "Google for me" - all in favor - respond by saying AYE.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're a small company employing ~ 30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers .
Unfortunately , the hosts they are on do n't have redundant power supplies because we simply do n't have the capacity .
We currently have one UPS per rack , which gives us about two minutes .
This may have been enough time when they were put in -- they 've been there for some time -- but it is n't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure .
Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes .
So I 'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected .
Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice .
Of course cost is a key factor too .
so given all of the above , what does Slashdot recommend ? Let me translate this for you : " I have no clue , do n't have the slightest idea about how to gauge power requirements , despite the fact that I have access to all of the hardware , and , if I HAD a clue , could do this myself .
So , please , do my job for me ?
" I am of the opinion that " Ask Slashdot " should be renamed to " Do my job for me " or " think for me " or " Google for me " - all in favor - respond by saying AYE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're a small company employing ~30 people and we are becoming increasingly reliant on virtual servers.
Unfortunately, the hosts they are on don't have redundant power supplies because we simply don't have the capacity.
We currently have one UPS per rack, which gives us about two minutes.
This may have been enough time when they were put in -- they've been there for some time -- but it isn't really enough time to shut everything down in the event of a failure.
Domain Controllers alone may take up to 15 minutes.
So I'm looking at upgrading the UPSs to ones that would preferably give us around 15 minutes of breathing space and send an email or text alert when a failure is detected.
Something that could trigger shutdowns automatically would also be nice.
Of course cost is a key factor too.
so given all of the above, what does Slashdot recommend?Let me translate this for you: "I have no clue, don't have the slightest idea about how to gauge power requirements, despite the fact that I have access to all of the hardware, and, if I HAD a clue, could do this myself.
So, please, do my job for me?
" I am of the opinion that "Ask Slashdot" should be renamed to "Do my job for me" or "think for me" or "Google for me" - all in favor - respond by saying AYE.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128950</id>
	<title>Re:APC SmartUPS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266091560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You said: "They have both Serial and USB notification." and "So I have a small PC for each rack..."</p><p>You use Smart UPSs from APC.  Spring for the ethernet monitoring and control card.  It's worth it.  Then you won't need a PC for each rack.  One single process on one server can handle ALL UPSs (or for redundancy, set up monitoring on 2 separate devices).  You can get automatic email alerts from the UPSs directly, or use NAGIOS or Cacti to monitor/graph power, battery levels, etc.  And you'll get notifications if the UPSs fail regularly scheduled self checks (so you know if you need to replace something).</p><p>We too use 2 UPSs per rack, and also use network-controlled PDUs (power distribution units) so we can individually remotely power cycle servers.  Also we get servers with dual power supplies, and plug each supply into a different UPS so we can do maintenance on one without powering down servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You said : " They have both Serial and USB notification .
" and " So I have a small PC for each rack... " You use Smart UPSs from APC .
Spring for the ethernet monitoring and control card .
It 's worth it .
Then you wo n't need a PC for each rack .
One single process on one server can handle ALL UPSs ( or for redundancy , set up monitoring on 2 separate devices ) .
You can get automatic email alerts from the UPSs directly , or use NAGIOS or Cacti to monitor/graph power , battery levels , etc .
And you 'll get notifications if the UPSs fail regularly scheduled self checks ( so you know if you need to replace something ) .We too use 2 UPSs per rack , and also use network-controlled PDUs ( power distribution units ) so we can individually remotely power cycle servers .
Also we get servers with dual power supplies , and plug each supply into a different UPS so we can do maintenance on one without powering down servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You said: "They have both Serial and USB notification.
" and "So I have a small PC for each rack..."You use Smart UPSs from APC.
Spring for the ethernet monitoring and control card.
It's worth it.
Then you won't need a PC for each rack.
One single process on one server can handle ALL UPSs (or for redundancy, set up monitoring on 2 separate devices).
You can get automatic email alerts from the UPSs directly, or use NAGIOS or Cacti to monitor/graph power, battery levels, etc.
And you'll get notifications if the UPSs fail regularly scheduled self checks (so you know if you need to replace something).We too use 2 UPSs per rack, and also use network-controlled PDUs (power distribution units) so we can individually remotely power cycle servers.
Also we get servers with dual power supplies, and plug each supply into a different UPS so we can do maintenance on one without powering down servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132824</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I built a similar system using 6 agm batteries for low maintinence and a 2k watt pure sine inverter. We also have a generator which kicks in after 30 seconds. The batteries should give us a couple hours of power in the event the genset does not start. The only problem I had was when the genset shut off after power came back on. the difference in 110v phase between the genset and the inverter caused our surge protecters to trip. We got around this by delaying the transfer from genset to powerline long enough for the inverter to come back on</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I built a similar system using 6 agm batteries for low maintinence and a 2k watt pure sine inverter .
We also have a generator which kicks in after 30 seconds .
The batteries should give us a couple hours of power in the event the genset does not start .
The only problem I had was when the genset shut off after power came back on .
the difference in 110v phase between the genset and the inverter caused our surge protecters to trip .
We got around this by delaying the transfer from genset to powerline long enough for the inverter to come back on</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I built a similar system using 6 agm batteries for low maintinence and a 2k watt pure sine inverter.
We also have a generator which kicks in after 30 seconds.
The batteries should give us a couple hours of power in the event the genset does not start.
The only problem I had was when the genset shut off after power came back on.
the difference in 110v phase between the genset and the inverter caused our surge protecters to trip.
We got around this by delaying the transfer from genset to powerline long enough for the inverter to come back on</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133786</id>
	<title>I hate every USP I've ever used.</title>
	<author>thogard</author>
	<datestamp>1266152100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been using UPSs for close to 3 decades and I'm not sure they have saved more more grief than they caused.</p><p>My latest attempt to get things working correctly involves a telco grade N+1  type system using 4 1KW (maybe they are 750w?) inverter modules form Eltek Valere that run off a -48V battery bank made up of 8 truck sized deep cycle floating cell batteries in two banks.  Its a pain to check the fluid levels but it can cope with far worse situations than the sealed lead acid batteries. The battery bank is charged by a a pair of rectifiers also from Eltek Valere.  The next goal for that is to hook up a KW or two of solar panels to the battery bank.  The idea is to power some things directly off the -48V system as well.</p><p>The second system I run was intended to use a Selectronics PS1 and a charger/inverter but it had a habit of trying to feed the grid for a few milliseconds before it decided it couldn't and then shut down both sides of the load.  Its now uses as a batter bank charger and a UPS for things that need protection but won't be a problem if they fail due to power outages.  The PS1 is the cleanest battery charger I have ever seen but its a bit expensive for that role.  I wouldn't have a problem using one of their units in cases where the power was very bad and I had a proper generator.</p><p>I also run small UPSs in the racks for things that should have ATS but don't.  I stand by the statement that they have caused more harm than what they have helped.  My old sun power supplies can take worse spikes than the 2RU UPS.  I had an idiot electritian who kept tying phase 1 to phase 2 when my gear was on phase 3.   Gee... every time I do this, it goes pop!  I wonder why it doesn't work and try again just about the time the machines had rebooted.  240V 3 phase pumps 415V or more into odd phase out when you connect the other two.  outch!</p><p>A word about Automatic transfer swtiches and dual power supplies.   When they have smarts built into them they can get into the game where "opps, phase A is down, switch to phase B" followed by "Opps phase B is dropping fast but Phase A looks ok now".  The power flapping ends up doing nasty things to the grid power factor and modern power meters will take that into consideration and may charge far more for the power.  Around here normal power can be had from $.08/kwh but bad power factor power can cost $.50 a kwh.</p><p>I monitor my power with a Sentron PAC3200 which is a 3 phase, 4 inch digital volt meter with an ethernet jack.  I get data every 30 seconds on volts, power, power factor, THD and other things it knows about and I plug that into rrdtool so I can look at the nice pictures after things break.  If your only doing 10A, you can connect the thing directly and it will give you enough precision to tell which server power off even if they are nearly identical but if you take more than 10A you need current transformers which introduce more slop on the data.   I put my PAC on the back end of my 3 UPS systems but I would like to get one for the front of the charges, the building as a whole and the computer room A/C systems.</p><p>Did I mention I hate UPSs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been using UPSs for close to 3 decades and I 'm not sure they have saved more more grief than they caused.My latest attempt to get things working correctly involves a telco grade N + 1 type system using 4 1KW ( maybe they are 750w ?
) inverter modules form Eltek Valere that run off a -48V battery bank made up of 8 truck sized deep cycle floating cell batteries in two banks .
Its a pain to check the fluid levels but it can cope with far worse situations than the sealed lead acid batteries .
The battery bank is charged by a a pair of rectifiers also from Eltek Valere .
The next goal for that is to hook up a KW or two of solar panels to the battery bank .
The idea is to power some things directly off the -48V system as well.The second system I run was intended to use a Selectronics PS1 and a charger/inverter but it had a habit of trying to feed the grid for a few milliseconds before it decided it could n't and then shut down both sides of the load .
Its now uses as a batter bank charger and a UPS for things that need protection but wo n't be a problem if they fail due to power outages .
The PS1 is the cleanest battery charger I have ever seen but its a bit expensive for that role .
I would n't have a problem using one of their units in cases where the power was very bad and I had a proper generator.I also run small UPSs in the racks for things that should have ATS but do n't .
I stand by the statement that they have caused more harm than what they have helped .
My old sun power supplies can take worse spikes than the 2RU UPS .
I had an idiot electritian who kept tying phase 1 to phase 2 when my gear was on phase 3 .
Gee... every time I do this , it goes pop !
I wonder why it does n't work and try again just about the time the machines had rebooted .
240V 3 phase pumps 415V or more into odd phase out when you connect the other two .
outch ! A word about Automatic transfer swtiches and dual power supplies .
When they have smarts built into them they can get into the game where " opps , phase A is down , switch to phase B " followed by " Opps phase B is dropping fast but Phase A looks ok now " .
The power flapping ends up doing nasty things to the grid power factor and modern power meters will take that into consideration and may charge far more for the power .
Around here normal power can be had from $ .08/kwh but bad power factor power can cost $ .50 a kwh.I monitor my power with a Sentron PAC3200 which is a 3 phase , 4 inch digital volt meter with an ethernet jack .
I get data every 30 seconds on volts , power , power factor , THD and other things it knows about and I plug that into rrdtool so I can look at the nice pictures after things break .
If your only doing 10A , you can connect the thing directly and it will give you enough precision to tell which server power off even if they are nearly identical but if you take more than 10A you need current transformers which introduce more slop on the data .
I put my PAC on the back end of my 3 UPS systems but I would like to get one for the front of the charges , the building as a whole and the computer room A/C systems.Did I mention I hate UPSs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been using UPSs for close to 3 decades and I'm not sure they have saved more more grief than they caused.My latest attempt to get things working correctly involves a telco grade N+1  type system using 4 1KW (maybe they are 750w?
) inverter modules form Eltek Valere that run off a -48V battery bank made up of 8 truck sized deep cycle floating cell batteries in two banks.
Its a pain to check the fluid levels but it can cope with far worse situations than the sealed lead acid batteries.
The battery bank is charged by a a pair of rectifiers also from Eltek Valere.
The next goal for that is to hook up a KW or two of solar panels to the battery bank.
The idea is to power some things directly off the -48V system as well.The second system I run was intended to use a Selectronics PS1 and a charger/inverter but it had a habit of trying to feed the grid for a few milliseconds before it decided it couldn't and then shut down both sides of the load.
Its now uses as a batter bank charger and a UPS for things that need protection but won't be a problem if they fail due to power outages.
The PS1 is the cleanest battery charger I have ever seen but its a bit expensive for that role.
I wouldn't have a problem using one of their units in cases where the power was very bad and I had a proper generator.I also run small UPSs in the racks for things that should have ATS but don't.
I stand by the statement that they have caused more harm than what they have helped.
My old sun power supplies can take worse spikes than the 2RU UPS.
I had an idiot electritian who kept tying phase 1 to phase 2 when my gear was on phase 3.
Gee... every time I do this, it goes pop!
I wonder why it doesn't work and try again just about the time the machines had rebooted.
240V 3 phase pumps 415V or more into odd phase out when you connect the other two.
outch!A word about Automatic transfer swtiches and dual power supplies.
When they have smarts built into them they can get into the game where "opps, phase A is down, switch to phase B" followed by "Opps phase B is dropping fast but Phase A looks ok now".
The power flapping ends up doing nasty things to the grid power factor and modern power meters will take that into consideration and may charge far more for the power.
Around here normal power can be had from $.08/kwh but bad power factor power can cost $.50 a kwh.I monitor my power with a Sentron PAC3200 which is a 3 phase, 4 inch digital volt meter with an ethernet jack.
I get data every 30 seconds on volts, power, power factor, THD and other things it knows about and I plug that into rrdtool so I can look at the nice pictures after things break.
If your only doing 10A, you can connect the thing directly and it will give you enough precision to tell which server power off even if they are nearly identical but if you take more than 10A you need current transformers which introduce more slop on the data.
I put my PAC on the back end of my 3 UPS systems but I would like to get one for the front of the charges, the building as a whole and the computer room A/C systems.Did I mention I hate UPSs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131992</id>
	<title>A UPS won't fix non-redundant power supplies</title>
	<author>funnyguy</author>
	<datestamp>1266076620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Redundant power supplies are to provide high availability in the case one fails.  You can look at a couple things though.</p><p>Most UPS vendors have a network-based communication between server and UPS.  It may be a premium feature, but it should shutdown a server when the power goes out.</p><p>As for power in general, if you need longer times, I would look into some form of generation.  APC even makes fuel cell in-datacenter generators.  You need a Hydrogen supply and a water drain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Redundant power supplies are to provide high availability in the case one fails .
You can look at a couple things though.Most UPS vendors have a network-based communication between server and UPS .
It may be a premium feature , but it should shutdown a server when the power goes out.As for power in general , if you need longer times , I would look into some form of generation .
APC even makes fuel cell in-datacenter generators .
You need a Hydrogen supply and a water drain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Redundant power supplies are to provide high availability in the case one fails.
You can look at a couple things though.Most UPS vendors have a network-based communication between server and UPS.
It may be a premium feature, but it should shutdown a server when the power goes out.As for power in general, if you need longer times, I would look into some form of generation.
APC even makes fuel cell in-datacenter generators.
You need a Hydrogen supply and a water drain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128742</id>
	<title>Liebert</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Liebert UPS's have an application called MultiLink, which will automatically shutdown the servers it communicates with based on certain conditions, like battery life remaining, among others. It communicates between the UPS and the servers on it via SNMP, and then triggers the shutdown based on parameters you set. Nice little automated way to accomplish what you are after. Of course, it requires a Liebert UPS, but I am sure there are similar solutions out there for almost all large UPS manufacturers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Liebert UPS 's have an application called MultiLink , which will automatically shutdown the servers it communicates with based on certain conditions , like battery life remaining , among others .
It communicates between the UPS and the servers on it via SNMP , and then triggers the shutdown based on parameters you set .
Nice little automated way to accomplish what you are after .
Of course , it requires a Liebert UPS , but I am sure there are similar solutions out there for almost all large UPS manufacturers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Liebert UPS's have an application called MultiLink, which will automatically shutdown the servers it communicates with based on certain conditions, like battery life remaining, among others.
It communicates between the UPS and the servers on it via SNMP, and then triggers the shutdown based on parameters you set.
Nice little automated way to accomplish what you are after.
Of course, it requires a Liebert UPS, but I am sure there are similar solutions out there for almost all large UPS manufacturers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132068</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266077760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The solution you describe is intriguing.  Could you post the specific model of Su-Kam inverter you're using, and the specs on the batteries?  I'd love to see photos, too, but appreciate any details you are up for providing.  Thank you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution you describe is intriguing .
Could you post the specific model of Su-Kam inverter you 're using , and the specs on the batteries ?
I 'd love to see photos , too , but appreciate any details you are up for providing .
Thank you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution you describe is intriguing.
Could you post the specific model of Su-Kam inverter you're using, and the specs on the batteries?
I'd love to see photos, too, but appreciate any details you are up for providing.
Thank you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131478</id>
	<title>More Battery Capacity</title>
	<author>rMortyH</author>
	<datestamp>1266070740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hello-<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Most larger APC units have an external battery connector on the back. It uses an Anderson connector to connect an external battery pack. Also, you can chain battery packs, to have more than one. The external battery packs are expensive but they can be worth it for this very problem.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; There's also the DIY method for VERY long uptime!</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; At my shop, in the locked cabinet, we have an ancient APC 1400 unit, with the batteries REMOVED, and two wal-mart deep-cycle marine batteries connected to the external connector. The batteries are 24-DC 12Volt, 75 amp hour batteries in series, for 24 volts. (grey connector) We disabled the beeper in the unit (with pliers... YANK) This keeps a rack with 7 computers up for several HOURS.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; This worked so well we decided to go one better! In the main closet, with extension cords running to the machines in the rest of the shop, we have a 3000VA APC unit. It has a 48 volt input (blue connector), not 24. On this sucker we put FOUR 27-DC 115 amp hour deep-cycle batteries, again from Wal-mart (best price, sorry) in series, connected to the back of the unit with the external connector. For these I got lucky and found a really nice set of cables.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; This sucker powers all the machines outside the rack, as well as some flat panels, and a desk lamp. (So we don't break our necks!)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I was worried that the current would be too much for the charger, but I've run them down and back up again and they're fine. I guess the UPS units are made to handle two or so external battery packs, so they handle the lead-acid jumbos just fine.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; We've had these for a few years, and even had the same power outage here in SF that took out 365 Main a few years ago and had no problems. I need to do another plug-pull test, but our loads are not that high and we can get up to eight hours! Again, pull out the beepers or you'll pull out your hair.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Some tips- You need nice, big cables to do this. Also, there are some code issues for large lead-acid batteries, so if you want to be completely legal buy the APC external battery units. If you buy at Wal-mart find some old dead lead batteries before you go or they'll charge you $9 core per unit. They really don't care if it's the same kind of battery,  I traded in the old APC Sealed units for the marine batteries ten times as big! Unlike the sealed ones, the deep-cycles are spillable so be careful. I have never had them spill but if you tip them over they will probably spill some acid.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Have fun!</p><p>=Rich</p><p>P.S. If you want more info on this or pictures, you can email me (public account) at rich underscore humphrey at yahoo</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hello-       Most larger APC units have an external battery connector on the back .
It uses an Anderson connector to connect an external battery pack .
Also , you can chain battery packs , to have more than one .
The external battery packs are expensive but they can be worth it for this very problem .
      There 's also the DIY method for VERY long uptime !
      At my shop , in the locked cabinet , we have an ancient APC 1400 unit , with the batteries REMOVED , and two wal-mart deep-cycle marine batteries connected to the external connector .
The batteries are 24-DC 12Volt , 75 amp hour batteries in series , for 24 volts .
( grey connector ) We disabled the beeper in the unit ( with pliers... YANK ) This keeps a rack with 7 computers up for several HOURS .
    This worked so well we decided to go one better !
In the main closet , with extension cords running to the machines in the rest of the shop , we have a 3000VA APC unit .
It has a 48 volt input ( blue connector ) , not 24 .
On this sucker we put FOUR 27-DC 115 amp hour deep-cycle batteries , again from Wal-mart ( best price , sorry ) in series , connected to the back of the unit with the external connector .
For these I got lucky and found a really nice set of cables .
    This sucker powers all the machines outside the rack , as well as some flat panels , and a desk lamp .
( So we do n't break our necks !
)     I was worried that the current would be too much for the charger , but I 've run them down and back up again and they 're fine .
I guess the UPS units are made to handle two or so external battery packs , so they handle the lead-acid jumbos just fine .
    We 've had these for a few years , and even had the same power outage here in SF that took out 365 Main a few years ago and had no problems .
I need to do another plug-pull test , but our loads are not that high and we can get up to eight hours !
Again , pull out the beepers or you 'll pull out your hair .
    Some tips- You need nice , big cables to do this .
Also , there are some code issues for large lead-acid batteries , so if you want to be completely legal buy the APC external battery units .
If you buy at Wal-mart find some old dead lead batteries before you go or they 'll charge you $ 9 core per unit .
They really do n't care if it 's the same kind of battery , I traded in the old APC Sealed units for the marine batteries ten times as big !
Unlike the sealed ones , the deep-cycles are spillable so be careful .
I have never had them spill but if you tip them over they will probably spill some acid .
    Have fun ! = RichP.S .
If you want more info on this or pictures , you can email me ( public account ) at rich underscore humphrey at yahoo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hello-
      Most larger APC units have an external battery connector on the back.
It uses an Anderson connector to connect an external battery pack.
Also, you can chain battery packs, to have more than one.
The external battery packs are expensive but they can be worth it for this very problem.
      There's also the DIY method for VERY long uptime!
      At my shop, in the locked cabinet, we have an ancient APC 1400 unit, with the batteries REMOVED, and two wal-mart deep-cycle marine batteries connected to the external connector.
The batteries are 24-DC 12Volt, 75 amp hour batteries in series, for 24 volts.
(grey connector) We disabled the beeper in the unit (with pliers... YANK) This keeps a rack with 7 computers up for several HOURS.
    This worked so well we decided to go one better!
In the main closet, with extension cords running to the machines in the rest of the shop, we have a 3000VA APC unit.
It has a 48 volt input (blue connector), not 24.
On this sucker we put FOUR 27-DC 115 amp hour deep-cycle batteries, again from Wal-mart (best price, sorry) in series, connected to the back of the unit with the external connector.
For these I got lucky and found a really nice set of cables.
    This sucker powers all the machines outside the rack, as well as some flat panels, and a desk lamp.
(So we don't break our necks!
)
    I was worried that the current would be too much for the charger, but I've run them down and back up again and they're fine.
I guess the UPS units are made to handle two or so external battery packs, so they handle the lead-acid jumbos just fine.
    We've had these for a few years, and even had the same power outage here in SF that took out 365 Main a few years ago and had no problems.
I need to do another plug-pull test, but our loads are not that high and we can get up to eight hours!
Again, pull out the beepers or you'll pull out your hair.
    Some tips- You need nice, big cables to do this.
Also, there are some code issues for large lead-acid batteries, so if you want to be completely legal buy the APC external battery units.
If you buy at Wal-mart find some old dead lead batteries before you go or they'll charge you $9 core per unit.
They really don't care if it's the same kind of battery,  I traded in the old APC Sealed units for the marine batteries ten times as big!
Unlike the sealed ones, the deep-cycles are spillable so be careful.
I have never had them spill but if you tip them over they will probably spill some acid.
    Have fun!=RichP.S.
If you want more info on this or pictures, you can email me (public account) at rich underscore humphrey at yahoo</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31210572</id>
	<title>Re:Have you tested the UPS lately?</title>
	<author>asvravi</author>
	<datestamp>1266687120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>what you want is a one ton 12V battery, the kind your phone CO might use, a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down. That's the proper way to do it.</p></div><p>

[Citation needed...]
</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Cause, uh, there's no fear your solar panels are gonna overcharge a ONE TON battery.</p></div><p>

[Citation needed...]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>what you want is a one ton 12V battery , the kind your phone CO might use , a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down .
That 's the proper way to do it .
[ Citation needed... ] Cause , uh , there 's no fear your solar panels are gon na overcharge a ONE TON battery .
[ Citation needed... ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what you want is a one ton 12V battery, the kind your phone CO might use, a huge ass inverter and some panic circuit to cut power over to battery when the line goes down.
That's the proper way to do it.
[Citation needed...]
Cause, uh, there's no fear your solar panels are gonna overcharge a ONE TON battery.
[Citation needed...]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31135866</id>
	<title>Diesel generator</title>
	<author>EmagGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1266176760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your 2 minute holdup time is more than sufficient to start a Diesel generator and for an automatic transfer switch to fire.</p><p>Put a 20kW (or whatever size you need) diesel generator outside and wire it into an ATS. It usually takes just a few seconds for the generator to start and switch the mains.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your 2 minute holdup time is more than sufficient to start a Diesel generator and for an automatic transfer switch to fire.Put a 20kW ( or whatever size you need ) diesel generator outside and wire it into an ATS .
It usually takes just a few seconds for the generator to start and switch the mains .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your 2 minute holdup time is more than sufficient to start a Diesel generator and for an automatic transfer switch to fire.Put a 20kW (or whatever size you need) diesel generator outside and wire it into an ATS.
It usually takes just a few seconds for the generator to start and switch the mains.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128814</id>
	<title>Re:Generator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266090540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or, he can move to DHL or FedEx, since UPS is not satisfying him.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , he can move to DHL or FedEx , since UPS is not satisfying him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or, he can move to DHL or FedEx, since UPS is not satisfying him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129416</id>
	<title>There are a few things to think about....</title>
	<author>mlwmohawk</author>
	<datestamp>1266052200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With most UPS systems on the market, the battery is sized for an estimated 5~10 minutes of run time for the power capacity of the UPS. There are actually two things to consider: The storage capacity of the batteries and the power capacity of the UPS. So, if you have a 1400VA UPS, you'll probably only have  a couple 12V 17AH batteries. To get a longer "runtime" commercially, you would have to get a higher capacity UPS. This would cause you to buy a heavier duty UPS than you really need and spend a lot more for it, when all you really need is higher storage capacity in the batteries.</p><p>If your company is really small and cheap, and has a hands-on mentality, which in this economy seems to be making a come-back, you could take a properly sized UPS and extend its run-time capacity merely by buying a couple batteries.  For instance, I have an APC 1400 UPS for my office servers, I got two 12 V 35VA batteries in addition to the standard 17A ones that came with it. I tripled the run-time storage while leaving the load capacity the same.</p><p>UPS companies don't like this, because they like to sell bigger products, but its your money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With most UPS systems on the market , the battery is sized for an estimated 5 ~ 10 minutes of run time for the power capacity of the UPS .
There are actually two things to consider : The storage capacity of the batteries and the power capacity of the UPS .
So , if you have a 1400VA UPS , you 'll probably only have a couple 12V 17AH batteries .
To get a longer " runtime " commercially , you would have to get a higher capacity UPS .
This would cause you to buy a heavier duty UPS than you really need and spend a lot more for it , when all you really need is higher storage capacity in the batteries.If your company is really small and cheap , and has a hands-on mentality , which in this economy seems to be making a come-back , you could take a properly sized UPS and extend its run-time capacity merely by buying a couple batteries .
For instance , I have an APC 1400 UPS for my office servers , I got two 12 V 35VA batteries in addition to the standard 17A ones that came with it .
I tripled the run-time storage while leaving the load capacity the same.UPS companies do n't like this , because they like to sell bigger products , but its your money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With most UPS systems on the market, the battery is sized for an estimated 5~10 minutes of run time for the power capacity of the UPS.
There are actually two things to consider: The storage capacity of the batteries and the power capacity of the UPS.
So, if you have a 1400VA UPS, you'll probably only have  a couple 12V 17AH batteries.
To get a longer "runtime" commercially, you would have to get a higher capacity UPS.
This would cause you to buy a heavier duty UPS than you really need and spend a lot more for it, when all you really need is higher storage capacity in the batteries.If your company is really small and cheap, and has a hands-on mentality, which in this economy seems to be making a come-back, you could take a properly sized UPS and extend its run-time capacity merely by buying a couple batteries.
For instance, I have an APC 1400 UPS for my office servers, I got two 12 V 35VA batteries in addition to the standard 17A ones that came with it.
I tripled the run-time storage while leaving the load capacity the same.UPS companies don't like this, because they like to sell bigger products, but its your money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129112</id>
	<title>Requirement Business and Physical</title>
	<author>tengu1sd</author>
	<datestamp>1266093120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Not enough information to make a decision here.  30 end users with some virtual servers. . .  What's the impact (co$t) of downtime?  What sort of traffic do these systems support?  <i>Some virtual servers</i> How many physical servers and what are the network, power and cooling requirements.  You probably don't want your UPS to run these systems when cooling has been out for hours.
</p><p>
So, work out what financial impact downtime will have.  Then you can start looking at options.  At one end of the scale, move everything into a hosted data center and bring up a point to point VPN.  Let someone else deal with power, cooling and redundant networking.  Your midpoint will be rack sized (half rack maybe) UPS that can feed your equipment.  Include cooling and or temperature monitors as well.  At the low end, buy a couple of rack sized UPS for 15 minutes or so and hope things work out. Don't forget to scale this option to allow for that new storage expansion or the server uplift which will add more CPUs and have larger power budget.
</p><p>
Work out the numbers cost versus business requirements.  I worked with one company when we had a prolonged power outage, (greater than 15 minutes) we shut down our development and staging servers, left customer facing equipment and networking running and located ginormous fans on UPS power to purge hot air and bring in outside air.  It's always cooler outside than behind the racks.
</p><p>
Bottom line is the cost of downtime against the cost of preparation.  Run the numbers, make a recommendation and remember <i>I told you so</i> although satisfying may or may not be good long term career option.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not enough information to make a decision here .
30 end users with some virtual servers .
. .
What 's the impact ( co $ t ) of downtime ?
What sort of traffic do these systems support ?
Some virtual servers How many physical servers and what are the network , power and cooling requirements .
You probably do n't want your UPS to run these systems when cooling has been out for hours .
So , work out what financial impact downtime will have .
Then you can start looking at options .
At one end of the scale , move everything into a hosted data center and bring up a point to point VPN .
Let someone else deal with power , cooling and redundant networking .
Your midpoint will be rack sized ( half rack maybe ) UPS that can feed your equipment .
Include cooling and or temperature monitors as well .
At the low end , buy a couple of rack sized UPS for 15 minutes or so and hope things work out .
Do n't forget to scale this option to allow for that new storage expansion or the server uplift which will add more CPUs and have larger power budget .
Work out the numbers cost versus business requirements .
I worked with one company when we had a prolonged power outage , ( greater than 15 minutes ) we shut down our development and staging servers , left customer facing equipment and networking running and located ginormous fans on UPS power to purge hot air and bring in outside air .
It 's always cooler outside than behind the racks .
Bottom line is the cost of downtime against the cost of preparation .
Run the numbers , make a recommendation and remember I told you so although satisfying may or may not be good long term career option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Not enough information to make a decision here.
30 end users with some virtual servers.
. .
What's the impact (co$t) of downtime?
What sort of traffic do these systems support?
Some virtual servers How many physical servers and what are the network, power and cooling requirements.
You probably don't want your UPS to run these systems when cooling has been out for hours.
So, work out what financial impact downtime will have.
Then you can start looking at options.
At one end of the scale, move everything into a hosted data center and bring up a point to point VPN.
Let someone else deal with power, cooling and redundant networking.
Your midpoint will be rack sized (half rack maybe) UPS that can feed your equipment.
Include cooling and or temperature monitors as well.
At the low end, buy a couple of rack sized UPS for 15 minutes or so and hope things work out.
Don't forget to scale this option to allow for that new storage expansion or the server uplift which will add more CPUs and have larger power budget.
Work out the numbers cost versus business requirements.
I worked with one company when we had a prolonged power outage, (greater than 15 minutes) we shut down our development and staging servers, left customer facing equipment and networking running and located ginormous fans on UPS power to purge hot air and bring in outside air.
It's always cooler outside than behind the racks.
Bottom line is the cost of downtime against the cost of preparation.
Run the numbers, make a recommendation and remember I told you so although satisfying may or may not be good long term career option.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129060</id>
	<title>cheap way</title>
	<author>yalap</author>
	<datestamp>1266092640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>WeirdStuff is selling UPS cases without batteries IIRC $60 for a 3000VA unit. Add new batteries and you'll save a ton of money. With any used UPS you will want to put new batteries in anyway. We have 6 UPS, all from craigslist.  We replaced the batteries and have had no problems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>WeirdStuff is selling UPS cases without batteries IIRC $ 60 for a 3000VA unit .
Add new batteries and you 'll save a ton of money .
With any used UPS you will want to put new batteries in anyway .
We have 6 UPS , all from craigslist .
We replaced the batteries and have had no problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WeirdStuff is selling UPS cases without batteries IIRC $60 for a 3000VA unit.
Add new batteries and you'll save a ton of money.
With any used UPS you will want to put new batteries in anyway.
We have 6 UPS, all from craigslist.
We replaced the batteries and have had no problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31134058</id>
	<title>Green UPS</title>
	<author>flyneye</author>
	<datestamp>1266157680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In order to be environmentally friendly so we don't have global warming and end up in another ice age there is something you can do. We all must do our part or you will get blamed next time we see a bald polar bear shed of its fur drinking an umbrella drink and munching deep fried penguin.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Put up a wind charger system and backup array of solar panels on the roof. Set aside a spare office and fill it w/ 12v car batteries and the appropriate inverter boxes for your countries power needs. That way you can save a poor little penguin from the deep fryer and Al Gore can finally shave his male poser beard.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O.K., that was a LOT tongue in cheek and I apologize to any penguins who may have been offended by my mention of Gore. I'm still burning from reading another article on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. about Minitrues subdivision of Miniclim.<br>Seriously though I'm not even a greenie and I firmly believe wind and solar power not only make your properties look techie cool, but will also offset that horrible electric bill.<br>There is a DIY site that can show you how to accomplish all this. <a href="http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower\_wind.shtml" title="otherpower.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower\_wind.shtml</a> [otherpower.com]  I've spent many fun hours planning my own system to get off the grid and rid myself of a paycheck sucking bill.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You may think I'm joking, but consider this, do you want to entrust your servers to the wiles of your local stupid greedy unionized electric company and some stupid UPS that needs replaced every couple years or take matters into your own hands?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Food for thought,pass the penguin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In order to be environmentally friendly so we do n't have global warming and end up in another ice age there is something you can do .
We all must do our part or you will get blamed next time we see a bald polar bear shed of its fur drinking an umbrella drink and munching deep fried penguin .
        Put up a wind charger system and backup array of solar panels on the roof .
Set aside a spare office and fill it w/ 12v car batteries and the appropriate inverter boxes for your countries power needs .
That way you can save a poor little penguin from the deep fryer and Al Gore can finally shave his male poser beard .
      O.K. , that was a LOT tongue in cheek and I apologize to any penguins who may have been offended by my mention of Gore .
I 'm still burning from reading another article on / .
about Minitrues subdivision of Miniclim.Seriously though I 'm not even a greenie and I firmly believe wind and solar power not only make your properties look techie cool , but will also offset that horrible electric bill.There is a DIY site that can show you how to accomplish all this .
http : //www.otherpower.com/otherpower \ _wind.shtml [ otherpower.com ] I 've spent many fun hours planning my own system to get off the grid and rid myself of a paycheck sucking bill .
          You may think I 'm joking , but consider this , do you want to entrust your servers to the wiles of your local stupid greedy unionized electric company and some stupid UPS that needs replaced every couple years or take matters into your own hands ?
        Food for thought,pass the penguin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In order to be environmentally friendly so we don't have global warming and end up in another ice age there is something you can do.
We all must do our part or you will get blamed next time we see a bald polar bear shed of its fur drinking an umbrella drink and munching deep fried penguin.
        Put up a wind charger system and backup array of solar panels on the roof.
Set aside a spare office and fill it w/ 12v car batteries and the appropriate inverter boxes for your countries power needs.
That way you can save a poor little penguin from the deep fryer and Al Gore can finally shave his male poser beard.
      O.K., that was a LOT tongue in cheek and I apologize to any penguins who may have been offended by my mention of Gore.
I'm still burning from reading another article on /.
about Minitrues subdivision of Miniclim.Seriously though I'm not even a greenie and I firmly believe wind and solar power not only make your properties look techie cool, but will also offset that horrible electric bill.There is a DIY site that can show you how to accomplish all this.
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower\_wind.shtml [otherpower.com]  I've spent many fun hours planning my own system to get off the grid and rid myself of a paycheck sucking bill.
          You may think I'm joking, but consider this, do you want to entrust your servers to the wiles of your local stupid greedy unionized electric company and some stupid UPS that needs replaced every couple years or take matters into your own hands?
        Food for thought,pass the penguin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31132286</id>
	<title>Re:Leave it to the professionals</title>
	<author>kamaaina</author>
	<datestamp>1266080400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Like Fisher Plaza in Seattle</htmltext>
<tokenext>Like Fisher Plaza in Seattle</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like Fisher Plaza in Seattle</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129364</id>
	<title>Do the math, and then buy APC</title>
	<author>Tolaris</author>
	<datestamp>1266051660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, do the math.  Calculate the run-time power consumption of your servers.  The easiest way is to use real numbers from the existing UPS units, or by using a <a href="http://www.google.com/products?q=kill-a-watt&amp;aq=f" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">kill-a-watt</a> [google.com].</p><p>Second, buy APC UPS units to meet your need.  UPSes are rated for the number of actual watt-hours they support.  If your servers consume 1500 watts, and you need them to operate for 30 minutes on battery, you'll need at least 750 watt-hours.  Considering adding 50\% for battery deterioration, and future expansion.</p><p>No, I don't work for APC, but they have worked exceedingly well for me and they are supported on practically any operating system you run.</p><p>In my network, we have a Linux machine monitor the UPS via USB serial cable using <a href="http://www.apcupsd.com/" title="apcupsd.com" rel="nofollow">apcupsd</a> [apcupsd.com], which you can find in your distro's repository.  Then all the other machines are linked to that machine also using apcupsd but with an ethernet target instead of USB.  When the UPS fails, the others find out within 20 seconds (or whatever your poll time is), and take action.  Any data the USB host has, the others have from the network.  It is easy to fetch the data via SNMP, graph it in Cacti, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , do the math .
Calculate the run-time power consumption of your servers .
The easiest way is to use real numbers from the existing UPS units , or by using a kill-a-watt [ google.com ] .Second , buy APC UPS units to meet your need .
UPSes are rated for the number of actual watt-hours they support .
If your servers consume 1500 watts , and you need them to operate for 30 minutes on battery , you 'll need at least 750 watt-hours .
Considering adding 50 \ % for battery deterioration , and future expansion.No , I do n't work for APC , but they have worked exceedingly well for me and they are supported on practically any operating system you run.In my network , we have a Linux machine monitor the UPS via USB serial cable using apcupsd [ apcupsd.com ] , which you can find in your distro 's repository .
Then all the other machines are linked to that machine also using apcupsd but with an ethernet target instead of USB .
When the UPS fails , the others find out within 20 seconds ( or whatever your poll time is ) , and take action .
Any data the USB host has , the others have from the network .
It is easy to fetch the data via SNMP , graph it in Cacti , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, do the math.
Calculate the run-time power consumption of your servers.
The easiest way is to use real numbers from the existing UPS units, or by using a kill-a-watt [google.com].Second, buy APC UPS units to meet your need.
UPSes are rated for the number of actual watt-hours they support.
If your servers consume 1500 watts, and you need them to operate for 30 minutes on battery, you'll need at least 750 watt-hours.
Considering adding 50\% for battery deterioration, and future expansion.No, I don't work for APC, but they have worked exceedingly well for me and they are supported on practically any operating system you run.In my network, we have a Linux machine monitor the UPS via USB serial cable using apcupsd [apcupsd.com], which you can find in your distro's repository.
Then all the other machines are linked to that machine also using apcupsd but with an ethernet target instead of USB.
When the UPS fails, the others find out within 20 seconds (or whatever your poll time is), and take action.
Any data the USB host has, the others have from the network.
It is easy to fetch the data via SNMP, graph it in Cacti, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130716</id>
	<title>What is wrong with your domain controllers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266062580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your domain controllers take 15 minutes to shut down, then:</p><p>- your domain controllers are running on very dilapidated old hardware<br>- your domain controllers are sluggish because they are infested with spyware &amp; rootkits<br>- you have the biggest active directory installation anyone has ever seen</p><p>Domain controllers should take less than a minute to shut down, and typically much less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your domain controllers take 15 minutes to shut down , then : - your domain controllers are running on very dilapidated old hardware- your domain controllers are sluggish because they are infested with spyware &amp; rootkits- you have the biggest active directory installation anyone has ever seenDomain controllers should take less than a minute to shut down , and typically much less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your domain controllers take 15 minutes to shut down, then:- your domain controllers are running on very dilapidated old hardware- your domain controllers are sluggish because they are infested with spyware &amp; rootkits- you have the biggest active directory installation anyone has ever seenDomain controllers should take less than a minute to shut down, and typically much less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129140</id>
	<title>I'll get modded down but...</title>
	<author>schklerg</author>
	<datestamp>1266093300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about FedEx or DHL?  Are you just a big fan of the color brown?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about FedEx or DHL ?
Are you just a big fan of the color brown ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about FedEx or DHL?
Are you just a big fan of the color brown?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131518</id>
	<title>Broken DC</title>
	<author>JSG</author>
	<datestamp>1266071100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An AD DC for 30 odd people takes 15 mins to shut down? I'd fix that first if I was you.</p><p>Next, decide what can stand being killed off immediately as soon as you switch to battery - eg one out of two DCs, backup servers, !database servers.  It's your decision here.</p><p>Next look at your requirements ie kVA to run systems, decide how long to keep them alive in the event, do the maths and then look at the price list.  Oh and buy a small diesel generator and get people educated in what to do with it.  If your nearest petrol (gas) station is 20 mins away then you'll need at least 45 mins on battery unless you can store fuel on site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An AD DC for 30 odd people takes 15 mins to shut down ?
I 'd fix that first if I was you.Next , decide what can stand being killed off immediately as soon as you switch to battery - eg one out of two DCs , backup servers , ! database servers .
It 's your decision here.Next look at your requirements ie kVA to run systems , decide how long to keep them alive in the event , do the maths and then look at the price list .
Oh and buy a small diesel generator and get people educated in what to do with it .
If your nearest petrol ( gas ) station is 20 mins away then you 'll need at least 45 mins on battery unless you can store fuel on site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An AD DC for 30 odd people takes 15 mins to shut down?
I'd fix that first if I was you.Next, decide what can stand being killed off immediately as soon as you switch to battery - eg one out of two DCs, backup servers, !database servers.
It's your decision here.Next look at your requirements ie kVA to run systems, decide how long to keep them alive in the event, do the maths and then look at the price list.
Oh and buy a small diesel generator and get people educated in what to do with it.
If your nearest petrol (gas) station is 20 mins away then you'll need at least 45 mins on battery unless you can store fuel on site.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128572</id>
	<title>Big Power Inverter/Batteries</title>
	<author>linuxpyro</author>
	<datestamp>1266088740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure how it compares to some of the purpose built UPSes around, but you could go find a big power inverter like those used in renewable energy systems and get a bunch of deep cycle batteries, maybe a 48 volt bank.  A lot of those big inverters have built in chargers and transfer switches, allowing you to basically use them like a UPS.  You'd have to roll your own auto shutdown solution, though.  And I guess it wouldn't be a true UPS, as there would be some transfer time (20 ms maybe?) as the relay switched over.  Though I doubt this would have much of an impact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure how it compares to some of the purpose built UPSes around , but you could go find a big power inverter like those used in renewable energy systems and get a bunch of deep cycle batteries , maybe a 48 volt bank .
A lot of those big inverters have built in chargers and transfer switches , allowing you to basically use them like a UPS .
You 'd have to roll your own auto shutdown solution , though .
And I guess it would n't be a true UPS , as there would be some transfer time ( 20 ms maybe ?
) as the relay switched over .
Though I doubt this would have much of an impact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure how it compares to some of the purpose built UPSes around, but you could go find a big power inverter like those used in renewable energy systems and get a bunch of deep cycle batteries, maybe a 48 volt bank.
A lot of those big inverters have built in chargers and transfer switches, allowing you to basically use them like a UPS.
You'd have to roll your own auto shutdown solution, though.
And I guess it wouldn't be a true UPS, as there would be some transfer time (20 ms maybe?
) as the relay switched over.
Though I doubt this would have much of an impact.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129154</id>
	<title>APC Symmetra LX</title>
	<author>zerofoo</author>
	<datestamp>1266093420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have around 20 servers, and the usual routing/firewall/switch/remote access stuff.</p><p>Our 16kVA Symmetra LX is 70\% loaded and gives us about 30 minutes of runtime.</p><p>Total cost for the UPS and outboard step-down transformers was around $10k</p><p>-ted</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have around 20 servers , and the usual routing/firewall/switch/remote access stuff.Our 16kVA Symmetra LX is 70 \ % loaded and gives us about 30 minutes of runtime.Total cost for the UPS and outboard step-down transformers was around $ 10k-ted</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have around 20 servers, and the usual routing/firewall/switch/remote access stuff.Our 16kVA Symmetra LX is 70\% loaded and gives us about 30 minutes of runtime.Total cost for the UPS and outboard step-down transformers was around $10k-ted</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131900</id>
	<title>dammit, folks, he wants brand names</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266075480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quit talking about generators and shit.</p><p>Here's my anti-recommendation: IBM.  Forget IBM when it comes to cheap consumer-level UPSes.  Didn't work worth a shit.  APC worked much better, though can't say they're good enough that I'd recommend.</p><p>The sad truth, though, as a few others have mentioned, you really have to replace 'em every few years.  Even if you hardly ever have outages, they only last 3-4 years.  No fire and forget; your servers will long outlast your UPS.  Budget accordingly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quit talking about generators and shit.Here 's my anti-recommendation : IBM .
Forget IBM when it comes to cheap consumer-level UPSes .
Did n't work worth a shit .
APC worked much better , though ca n't say they 're good enough that I 'd recommend.The sad truth , though , as a few others have mentioned , you really have to replace 'em every few years .
Even if you hardly ever have outages , they only last 3-4 years .
No fire and forget ; your servers will long outlast your UPS .
Budget accordingly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quit talking about generators and shit.Here's my anti-recommendation: IBM.
Forget IBM when it comes to cheap consumer-level UPSes.
Didn't work worth a shit.
APC worked much better, though can't say they're good enough that I'd recommend.The sad truth, though, as a few others have mentioned, you really have to replace 'em every few years.
Even if you hardly ever have outages, they only last 3-4 years.
No fire and forget; your servers will long outlast your UPS.
Budget accordingly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128836</id>
	<title>Re:1st. Identify Requirements</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266090720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You also need to keep in mind local regulations - in our area, once the UPS gets above a certain size you need a hydrogen gas extraction vent for the batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You also need to keep in mind local regulations - in our area , once the UPS gets above a certain size you need a hydrogen gas extraction vent for the batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You also need to keep in mind local regulations - in our area, once the UPS gets above a certain size you need a hydrogen gas extraction vent for the batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129008</id>
	<title>Re:First, know the load!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266092160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  This guy doesn't provide the server count or the watts per server.  VMware doesn't have anything to do with squat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
This guy does n't provide the server count or the watts per server .
VMware does n't have anything to do with squat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
This guy doesn't provide the server count or the watts per server.
VMware doesn't have anything to do with squat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128598</id>
	<title>1st.  Identify Requirements</title>
	<author>narziss</author>
	<datestamp>1266088920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not about the amount of people, servers, or a fixed time limit to preserve power.

First and foremost, you need to identify what the critical systems are that need to be protected.

These may include the VM farms, NAS storage, obviously the underlying network infrastructure, and at the very least, some management terminals that can be used in the event of a failure.

Once you identify these systems you need to reference the electrical in/output specifications.  If possible, you would want to measure the real requirements in production with inline monitors or passive taps.

After you have built your requirement set (mind you, you may decide it's better to have a few small UPS vs one very very large one) you need to explore what needs to be up, and for how long, and build yourself a model.

There are dozens of UPS manufacturers, and tens of thousands of combinations for any sized company.

Once you have an outline of the systems and their individual power requirements, coupled with your own requirements for their availability/protected power, it will be relatively easy to build yourself a good level of protection on a small budget.

Mind you these devices (UPS) can often be found on the second hand market due to company refresh, datacenter closures, etc.  Many can be easily re-certified by the manufacturer directly or a variety of 3rd party vendors who specialize in this type of infrastructure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not about the amount of people , servers , or a fixed time limit to preserve power .
First and foremost , you need to identify what the critical systems are that need to be protected .
These may include the VM farms , NAS storage , obviously the underlying network infrastructure , and at the very least , some management terminals that can be used in the event of a failure .
Once you identify these systems you need to reference the electrical in/output specifications .
If possible , you would want to measure the real requirements in production with inline monitors or passive taps .
After you have built your requirement set ( mind you , you may decide it 's better to have a few small UPS vs one very very large one ) you need to explore what needs to be up , and for how long , and build yourself a model .
There are dozens of UPS manufacturers , and tens of thousands of combinations for any sized company .
Once you have an outline of the systems and their individual power requirements , coupled with your own requirements for their availability/protected power , it will be relatively easy to build yourself a good level of protection on a small budget .
Mind you these devices ( UPS ) can often be found on the second hand market due to company refresh , datacenter closures , etc .
Many can be easily re-certified by the manufacturer directly or a variety of 3rd party vendors who specialize in this type of infrastructure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not about the amount of people, servers, or a fixed time limit to preserve power.
First and foremost, you need to identify what the critical systems are that need to be protected.
These may include the VM farms, NAS storage, obviously the underlying network infrastructure, and at the very least, some management terminals that can be used in the event of a failure.
Once you identify these systems you need to reference the electrical in/output specifications.
If possible, you would want to measure the real requirements in production with inline monitors or passive taps.
After you have built your requirement set (mind you, you may decide it's better to have a few small UPS vs one very very large one) you need to explore what needs to be up, and for how long, and build yourself a model.
There are dozens of UPS manufacturers, and tens of thousands of combinations for any sized company.
Once you have an outline of the systems and their individual power requirements, coupled with your own requirements for their availability/protected power, it will be relatively easy to build yourself a good level of protection on a small budget.
Mind you these devices (UPS) can often be found on the second hand market due to company refresh, datacenter closures, etc.
Many can be easily re-certified by the manufacturer directly or a variety of 3rd party vendors who specialize in this type of infrastructure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128648</id>
	<title>Not enough info...</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1266089220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Key points that are missing:</p><p>
How many servers and network devices.
Total amps each unit is pulling.
</p><p>
Total peak watts <b>power</b> usage of each server power supply.
</p><p>
If you need 10000vA and 20000 watts, you're in a totally different ballgame than if you need 500vA and 1000 watts.

</p><p>
Total peak vA of <b>apparent power</b> usage of each server power supply.
</p><p>
For redundant power supply configurations, peak should be double the average.
</p><p>
Pick a UPS that is rated for an amount at least 20\%  above the peak load, and has the rated run-time  for each set of server PSUs it will be powering.
</p><p>
For redundant power configs,  two UPS should be used.
</p><p>
You need to get sizing right before being concerned about fancy features like auto-shutdown.
</p><p>
Which most enterprise-grade UPS should provide in some form  (may require extra add-in module).
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Key points that are missing : How many servers and network devices .
Total amps each unit is pulling .
Total peak watts power usage of each server power supply .
If you need 10000vA and 20000 watts , you 're in a totally different ballgame than if you need 500vA and 1000 watts .
Total peak vA of apparent power usage of each server power supply .
For redundant power supply configurations , peak should be double the average .
Pick a UPS that is rated for an amount at least 20 \ % above the peak load , and has the rated run-time for each set of server PSUs it will be powering .
For redundant power configs , two UPS should be used .
You need to get sizing right before being concerned about fancy features like auto-shutdown .
Which most enterprise-grade UPS should provide in some form ( may require extra add-in module ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Key points that are missing:
How many servers and network devices.
Total amps each unit is pulling.
Total peak watts power usage of each server power supply.
If you need 10000vA and 20000 watts, you're in a totally different ballgame than if you need 500vA and 1000 watts.
Total peak vA of apparent power usage of each server power supply.
For redundant power supply configurations, peak should be double the average.
Pick a UPS that is rated for an amount at least 20\%  above the peak load, and has the rated run-time  for each set of server PSUs it will be powering.
For redundant power configs,  two UPS should be used.
You need to get sizing right before being concerned about fancy features like auto-shutdown.
Which most enterprise-grade UPS should provide in some form  (may require extra add-in module).
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128624</id>
	<title>Cost Analysis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would it be more efficient to put a new, top of the line server on with multiple UPS?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it be more efficient to put a new , top of the line server on with multiple UPS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would it be more efficient to put a new, top of the line server on with multiple UPS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31135472</id>
	<title>Reconsider your environment</title>
	<author>jon3k</author>
	<datestamp>1266173100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>UPS should only last long enough for your generator to fire up and your automatic transfer switch to cut over to generator power.  Trying to power an ever increasing datacenter on batteries is an exercise in futility.  You think it's a problem now wait until you have a few HUNDRED servers.  Half of your square footage will be batteries, not very cost effective when you consider the cost per square foot to power and cool your datacenter.
<br> <br>
But if your entire environment is virtualized, why not let someone else host it?  Have you really considered whether or not you want to be in the business of running a datacenter?  It can be far cheaper when you consider the total cost even including the transport you'd need to provision to access these systems.  You even have the option of keeping a few systems on-site which you could power with your current UPS (DHCP, local domain controller for faster authentication, etc).</htmltext>
<tokenext>UPS should only last long enough for your generator to fire up and your automatic transfer switch to cut over to generator power .
Trying to power an ever increasing datacenter on batteries is an exercise in futility .
You think it 's a problem now wait until you have a few HUNDRED servers .
Half of your square footage will be batteries , not very cost effective when you consider the cost per square foot to power and cool your datacenter .
But if your entire environment is virtualized , why not let someone else host it ?
Have you really considered whether or not you want to be in the business of running a datacenter ?
It can be far cheaper when you consider the total cost even including the transport you 'd need to provision to access these systems .
You even have the option of keeping a few systems on-site which you could power with your current UPS ( DHCP , local domain controller for faster authentication , etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UPS should only last long enough for your generator to fire up and your automatic transfer switch to cut over to generator power.
Trying to power an ever increasing datacenter on batteries is an exercise in futility.
You think it's a problem now wait until you have a few HUNDRED servers.
Half of your square footage will be batteries, not very cost effective when you consider the cost per square foot to power and cool your datacenter.
But if your entire environment is virtualized, why not let someone else host it?
Have you really considered whether or not you want to be in the business of running a datacenter?
It can be far cheaper when you consider the total cost even including the transport you'd need to provision to access these systems.
You even have the option of keeping a few systems on-site which you could power with your current UPS (DHCP, local domain controller for faster authentication, etc).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129046</id>
	<title>Suspend to disk instead of shutdown?</title>
	<author>kju</author>
	<datestamp>1266092460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might be lot faster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might be lot faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might be lot faster.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31131582</id>
	<title>Natural gas generator</title>
	<author>gatkinso</author>
	<datestamp>1266071700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Screw diesil.  A natural gas generator will serve you far better and reliably.</p><p>If gas is available at your location that is.  If the gas goes out there are likely far larger problems to contend with.</p><p>However I would probably fix your domain controller first.  30 people... 15 minute shutdown?  What's up with that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Screw diesil .
A natural gas generator will serve you far better and reliably.If gas is available at your location that is .
If the gas goes out there are likely far larger problems to contend with.However I would probably fix your domain controller first .
30 people... 15 minute shutdown ?
What 's up with that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screw diesil.
A natural gas generator will serve you far better and reliably.If gas is available at your location that is.
If the gas goes out there are likely far larger problems to contend with.However I would probably fix your domain controller first.
30 people... 15 minute shutdown?
What's up with that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128614</id>
	<title>UNPLUG THE MONITOR</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266088980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>from the UPS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>from the UPS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>from the UPS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31130178</id>
	<title>Batteries.. Damaged UPS's.. and Exchange. Oh My.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266057960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>- Check your batteries by opening up your UPS unit maintenance doors. At a guess you are probably using APC 700/1000 class units that have bulged batteries or blown batteries. An APC 700 should have a 5 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load if it is working. An APC3000 class unit has about a 15-20 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load.<br>- Server Rack wiring: If your servers have redundant power supplies, and you have the money for a duplicate UPS unit, put each power supply 'side' into a different UPS.<br>- Run the ups monitoring software.</p><p>I personally like the following configuration:<br>1 APC3K class UPS for the entire rack.<br>1 ACP700 class UPS for every server.<br>- "Split" redundant power connections (see above)<br>- All servers monitor their APC700 class UPS.<br>- Script shut down sequence in proper order.</p><p>Your shutdown/reboot times are a little scary. Delete any "dead" user profiles in your C:\Documents and Settings\ directory. Defrag your sys and data drives, disable all unneeded services. On your exchange server, go into the network configuration and change the DNS server names to the IP#'s of the DNS server(s). Unbind NetBios from TCP/IP on the servers that don't supply printer/file sharing services. Go into your exchange server managment utility, look at your mailboxes and delete any dead email boxes. Clean up your mailbox stores by defragging them.</p><p>It's not perfect, but most of that should help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>- Check your batteries by opening up your UPS unit maintenance doors .
At a guess you are probably using APC 700/1000 class units that have bulged batteries or blown batteries .
An APC 700 should have a 5 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load if it is working .
An APC3000 class unit has about a 15-20 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load.- Server Rack wiring : If your servers have redundant power supplies , and you have the money for a duplicate UPS unit , put each power supply 'side ' into a different UPS.- Run the ups monitoring software.I personally like the following configuration : 1 APC3K class UPS for the entire rack.1 ACP700 class UPS for every server.- " Split " redundant power connections ( see above ) - All servers monitor their APC700 class UPS.- Script shut down sequence in proper order.Your shutdown/reboot times are a little scary .
Delete any " dead " user profiles in your C : \ Documents and Settings \ directory .
Defrag your sys and data drives , disable all unneeded services .
On your exchange server , go into the network configuration and change the DNS server names to the IP # 's of the DNS server ( s ) .
Unbind NetBios from TCP/IP on the servers that do n't supply printer/file sharing services .
Go into your exchange server managment utility , look at your mailboxes and delete any dead email boxes .
Clean up your mailbox stores by defragging them.It 's not perfect , but most of that should help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- Check your batteries by opening up your UPS unit maintenance doors.
At a guess you are probably using APC 700/1000 class units that have bulged batteries or blown batteries.
An APC 700 should have a 5 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load if it is working.
An APC3000 class unit has about a 15-20 minute burn time on a 1Kwatt load.- Server Rack wiring: If your servers have redundant power supplies, and you have the money for a duplicate UPS unit, put each power supply 'side' into a different UPS.- Run the ups monitoring software.I personally like the following configuration:1 APC3K class UPS for the entire rack.1 ACP700 class UPS for every server.- "Split" redundant power connections (see above)- All servers monitor their APC700 class UPS.- Script shut down sequence in proper order.Your shutdown/reboot times are a little scary.
Delete any "dead" user profiles in your C:\Documents and Settings\ directory.
Defrag your sys and data drives, disable all unneeded services.
On your exchange server, go into the network configuration and change the DNS server names to the IP#'s of the DNS server(s).
Unbind NetBios from TCP/IP on the servers that don't supply printer/file sharing services.
Go into your exchange server managment utility, look at your mailboxes and delete any dead email boxes.
Clean up your mailbox stores by defragging them.It's not perfect, but most of that should help.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31129724</id>
	<title>Single large UPS - such as PowerWare</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266054240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might consider a larger UPS from Eaton like the PowerWare units.  These units can be sized to power the entire data center and your desktop computers.  They can handle printer and photocopiers and easily become worth it when you start looking at purchasing a pile of individual UPS units.</p><p>We have two PowerWare units because our servers have redundant power supplies and this gives us full redundancy in the data center.  We can also run the couple of laser printers we have in the data center.  Then we wired half of the building to one UPS and the rest to the other UPS.  The orange outlets at the desktop are for the computer equipment and are wired to the UPS units.  We get a lot of thunderstorms and power fluctuations and now our operation continues faithfully.  Note that all of our networking gear and telecomm are also on the Eaton units.  We saved thousands of dollars in our situation.  We have 48 servers in 14 racks and about 350 desktops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might consider a larger UPS from Eaton like the PowerWare units .
These units can be sized to power the entire data center and your desktop computers .
They can handle printer and photocopiers and easily become worth it when you start looking at purchasing a pile of individual UPS units.We have two PowerWare units because our servers have redundant power supplies and this gives us full redundancy in the data center .
We can also run the couple of laser printers we have in the data center .
Then we wired half of the building to one UPS and the rest to the other UPS .
The orange outlets at the desktop are for the computer equipment and are wired to the UPS units .
We get a lot of thunderstorms and power fluctuations and now our operation continues faithfully .
Note that all of our networking gear and telecomm are also on the Eaton units .
We saved thousands of dollars in our situation .
We have 48 servers in 14 racks and about 350 desktops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might consider a larger UPS from Eaton like the PowerWare units.
These units can be sized to power the entire data center and your desktop computers.
They can handle printer and photocopiers and easily become worth it when you start looking at purchasing a pile of individual UPS units.We have two PowerWare units because our servers have redundant power supplies and this gives us full redundancy in the data center.
We can also run the couple of laser printers we have in the data center.
Then we wired half of the building to one UPS and the rest to the other UPS.
The orange outlets at the desktop are for the computer equipment and are wired to the UPS units.
We get a lot of thunderstorms and power fluctuations and now our operation continues faithfully.
Note that all of our networking gear and telecomm are also on the Eaton units.
We saved thousands of dollars in our situation.
We have 48 servers in 14 racks and about 350 desktops.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128594</id>
	<title>First, know the load!</title>
	<author>Nuitari The Wiz</author>
	<datestamp>1266088920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not knowing the load required on the UPS makes it very hard to tell what kind of UPS you need. You need to know how many watts are used in the rack to be able to plan some proper UPS capacity.</p><p>apcupsd can be networked between machines and can trigger auto shutdowns of all of them, including VM guests.</p><p>Some virtual machine system can also suspend all VMs on shutdown which could be a better alternative then shutting them down. Again, without knowing which VM system you use it's hard to get into details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not knowing the load required on the UPS makes it very hard to tell what kind of UPS you need .
You need to know how many watts are used in the rack to be able to plan some proper UPS capacity.apcupsd can be networked between machines and can trigger auto shutdowns of all of them , including VM guests.Some virtual machine system can also suspend all VMs on shutdown which could be a better alternative then shutting them down .
Again , without knowing which VM system you use it 's hard to get into details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not knowing the load required on the UPS makes it very hard to tell what kind of UPS you need.
You need to know how many watts are used in the rack to be able to plan some proper UPS capacity.apcupsd can be networked between machines and can trigger auto shutdowns of all of them, including VM guests.Some virtual machine system can also suspend all VMs on shutdown which could be a better alternative then shutting them down.
Again, without knowing which VM system you use it's hard to get into details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31134982</id>
	<title>Re:Inverters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266168180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason your lead-acid battery solution runs so long is that you have A-h (amp-hours) to back it up.  If you look in an APC UPS, you will find one or more sealed-lead-acid (SLA) batteries.  The ones I've seen are 7 A-h batteries.  Say your load is 1000 VA, how long are those 2 little 12V, 7 A-h batteries going to hold up?  Do some math, convert the 12V, 7A-h to VA-h: 2 * 12V * 7A-h = 168 VA-h.  Divide this number by your load:  168 VA-h / 1000 VA = 0.168 h, or about 10 minutes, optimistically.</p><p>Slap a couple of [honking] A-h car batteries behind an inverter, and you easily have lots of run-time.  APC and other UPS manufacturers do not seem to want to tell you VA-h capacity of their units, but you can figure it yourself by knowing the capacity of the batteries.</p><p>One disadvantage of car batteries is the hydrogen and acidic gases given off by the batteries.  They have to be in a separate room from the servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason your lead-acid battery solution runs so long is that you have A-h ( amp-hours ) to back it up .
If you look in an APC UPS , you will find one or more sealed-lead-acid ( SLA ) batteries .
The ones I 've seen are 7 A-h batteries .
Say your load is 1000 VA , how long are those 2 little 12V , 7 A-h batteries going to hold up ?
Do some math , convert the 12V , 7A-h to VA-h : 2 * 12V * 7A-h = 168 VA-h. Divide this number by your load : 168 VA-h / 1000 VA = 0.168 h , or about 10 minutes , optimistically.Slap a couple of [ honking ] A-h car batteries behind an inverter , and you easily have lots of run-time .
APC and other UPS manufacturers do not seem to want to tell you VA-h capacity of their units , but you can figure it yourself by knowing the capacity of the batteries.One disadvantage of car batteries is the hydrogen and acidic gases given off by the batteries .
They have to be in a separate room from the servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason your lead-acid battery solution runs so long is that you have A-h (amp-hours) to back it up.
If you look in an APC UPS, you will find one or more sealed-lead-acid (SLA) batteries.
The ones I've seen are 7 A-h batteries.
Say your load is 1000 VA, how long are those 2 little 12V, 7 A-h batteries going to hold up?
Do some math, convert the 12V, 7A-h to VA-h: 2 * 12V * 7A-h = 168 VA-h.  Divide this number by your load:  168 VA-h / 1000 VA = 0.168 h, or about 10 minutes, optimistically.Slap a couple of [honking] A-h car batteries behind an inverter, and you easily have lots of run-time.
APC and other UPS manufacturers do not seem to want to tell you VA-h capacity of their units, but you can figure it yourself by knowing the capacity of the batteries.One disadvantage of car batteries is the hydrogen and acidic gases given off by the batteries.
They have to be in a separate room from the servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31128666</id>
	<title>Inverters</title>
	<author>mukund</author>
	<datestamp>1266089400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use a <a href="http://www.su-kam.com/index.html" title="su-kam.com">Su-Kam</a> [su-kam.com] inverter at home. It powers a whole room, has a clean sine-wave output (unlike traditional UPSes), and its switchover delay is small enough that the SMPS in computers handle the switchover to battery power properly.</p><p>It uses two large <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid\_battery" title="wikipedia.org">lead-acid multi-cell batteries</a> [wikipedia.org] (~car batteries) for storing charge. The last time there was a major power cut, it powered my computer systems for 10 hours (yes you read that right... 10 hours.)</p><p>I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down.</p><p>This is India btw.. power cuts are common.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use a Su-Kam [ su-kam.com ] inverter at home .
It powers a whole room , has a clean sine-wave output ( unlike traditional UPSes ) , and its switchover delay is small enough that the SMPS in computers handle the switchover to battery power properly.It uses two large lead-acid multi-cell batteries [ wikipedia.org ] ( ~ car batteries ) for storing charge .
The last time there was a major power cut , it powered my computer systems for 10 hours ( yes you read that right... 10 hours .
) I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down.This is India btw.. power cuts are common .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use a Su-Kam [su-kam.com] inverter at home.
It powers a whole room, has a clean sine-wave output (unlike traditional UPSes), and its switchover delay is small enough that the SMPS in computers handle the switchover to battery power properly.It uses two large lead-acid multi-cell batteries [wikipedia.org] (~car batteries) for storing charge.
The last time there was a major power cut, it powered my computer systems for 10 hours (yes you read that right... 10 hours.
)I was laughing at the old APC UPS which did 10 minutes before I had to power down.This is India btw.. power cuts are common.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_1638212.31133092</id>
	<title>Wow, its amature hour on ask slashdot</title>
	<author>lusid1</author>
	<datestamp>1266179700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off, no redundant PSU because they "don't have the capacity"?  You not only need a UPS, you need an electrician.</p><p>Second, no sizing data?  What is the peak load at startup per rack?  What is the average running load per rack?</p><p>What would be your ideal runtime?</p><p>How many racks?</p><p>Peak Load will tell you how large a UPS you need (in KVA), Average load and run time will tell you how many expansion batteries you need to buy.</p><p>Buy the management card for your UPS and configure it to send you email alerts.  While you're at it load the client software on your VMs so they know when to gracefully shutdown.</p><p>Ask your electrician if you need 3phase or 2phase (my money's on 2 for you)</p><p>Then get the electrician to install enough dedicate power circuits to drive your new UPS(s).  While you're at it, ground the racks.</p><p>Then call your AC guy, because once you've done enough math to buy a UPS you'll have enough data to correctly size the AC in your server room.</p><p>When you find out management doesn't care about extended recovery time and data loss, and they shoot down the CAPEX for your UPS project, you can focus on things that really matter: good backups and your resume.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off , no redundant PSU because they " do n't have the capacity " ?
You not only need a UPS , you need an electrician.Second , no sizing data ?
What is the peak load at startup per rack ?
What is the average running load per rack ? What would be your ideal runtime ? How many racks ? Peak Load will tell you how large a UPS you need ( in KVA ) , Average load and run time will tell you how many expansion batteries you need to buy.Buy the management card for your UPS and configure it to send you email alerts .
While you 're at it load the client software on your VMs so they know when to gracefully shutdown.Ask your electrician if you need 3phase or 2phase ( my money 's on 2 for you ) Then get the electrician to install enough dedicate power circuits to drive your new UPS ( s ) .
While you 're at it , ground the racks.Then call your AC guy , because once you 've done enough math to buy a UPS you 'll have enough data to correctly size the AC in your server room.When you find out management does n't care about extended recovery time and data loss , and they shoot down the CAPEX for your UPS project , you can focus on things that really matter : good backups and your resume .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off, no redundant PSU because they "don't have the capacity"?
You not only need a UPS, you need an electrician.Second, no sizing data?
What is the peak load at startup per rack?
What is the average running load per rack?What would be your ideal runtime?How many racks?Peak Load will tell you how large a UPS you need (in KVA), Average load and run time will tell you how many expansion batteries you need to buy.Buy the management card for your UPS and configure it to send you email alerts.
While you're at it load the client software on your VMs so they know when to gracefully shutdown.Ask your electrician if you need 3phase or 2phase (my money's on 2 for you)Then get the electrician to install enough dedicate power circuits to drive your new UPS(s).
While you're at it, ground the racks.Then call your AC guy, because once you've done enough math to buy a UPS you'll have enough data to correctly size the AC in your server room.When you find out management doesn't care about extended recovery time and data loss, and they shoot down the CAPEX for your UPS project, you can focus on things that really matter: good backups and your resume.</sentencetext>
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