<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_13_0556252</id>
	<title>Yale Switching To Gmail, Not Without Opposition</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1266065400000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>PwnSnake writes <i>"While it makes sense for small (and large) corporations to move to Gmail, something seems amiss when a top private university decides to <a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2010/02/09/google-run-yale-e-mail/">hand everything over to Google</a>. Although most in that community seem to welcome the change, several organizations on campus have joined forces to <a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/opinion/guest-columns/2010/02/11/csar-kamdar-and-slade-lux-et-veritas-et-gmail/">call for a transparent process</a> and get students and faculty thinking about the downsides of the switch. The problem is choice (users can already forward mail to Gmail; it doesn't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server)."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>PwnSnake writes " While it makes sense for small ( and large ) corporations to move to Gmail , something seems amiss when a top private university decides to hand everything over to Google .
Although most in that community seem to welcome the change , several organizations on campus have joined forces to call for a transparent process and get students and faculty thinking about the downsides of the switch .
The problem is choice ( users can already forward mail to Gmail ; it does n't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server ) .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PwnSnake writes "While it makes sense for small (and large) corporations to move to Gmail, something seems amiss when a top private university decides to hand everything over to Google.
Although most in that community seem to welcome the change, several organizations on campus have joined forces to call for a transparent process and get students and faculty thinking about the downsides of the switch.
The problem is choice (users can already forward mail to Gmail; it doesn't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server).
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127314</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Wovel</author>
	<datestamp>1266079680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are just a typical uninformed, ignorant IT guy who actually knows nothing about IT.  People like you are the reason more companies and Universities are having to outforce.   If the decisions you make managing your IT department are as uninformed as your post, your email will be outsourced before you know it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are just a typical uninformed , ignorant IT guy who actually knows nothing about IT .
People like you are the reason more companies and Universities are having to outforce .
If the decisions you make managing your IT department are as uninformed as your post , your email will be outsourced before you know it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are just a typical uninformed, ignorant IT guy who actually knows nothing about IT.
People like you are the reason more companies and Universities are having to outforce.
If the decisions you make managing your IT department are as uninformed as your post, your email will be outsourced before you know it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31142284</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>inKubus</author>
	<datestamp>1266231420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean something like <a href="http://www.zimbra.com/" title="zimbra.com">Zimbra</a> [zimbra.com], care of Yahoo, Inc.?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean something like Zimbra [ zimbra.com ] , care of Yahoo , Inc. ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean something like Zimbra [zimbra.com], care of Yahoo, Inc.?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127644</id>
	<title>Re:Non-unique.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266081900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First of all, we're talking about YALE UNIVERSITY.  They have no cashflow problems.</p><p>&gt; It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously. Reliable e-mail systems<br>&gt; can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone; removing that burden<br>&gt; liberates a huge chip on their shoulders.</p><p>Baloney.  There are plenty of stable, free email systems that have been used by massive institutions for decades.  No licensing is required to run an email system.</p><p>&gt; It reduces power consumption, thus reducing monthly costs and<br>&gt; increasing eco-friendliness.</p><p>Also baloney.  Running a few email servers is not a significant cost, especially when you consider how many people can simultaneously use one system.  Also, Google is a massive power consumer, so the eco-friendliness of moving the draw from one place to another is nonsense.</p><p>&gt; It makes the lives of sysadmins easier.</p><p>Also baloney.  I can make your life easier by removing your responsibilities, if you like.<br>If I do that enough, I can remove the hassle of paying you as well.</p><p>You can run an enterprise email system without significant cost.  Once it's set up, it should just run by itself, except the occasional updates or breakages that can usually be handled without the users ever knowing.  The sysadmins can go work on something else for the other 99\% of the time.</p><p>But if the existing system was garbage, I can see people gravitating towards gmail, especially if that's what half the people had already moved to on their own.   But you still need to consider the privacy/accountability concerns of such a move.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all , we 're talking about YALE UNIVERSITY .
They have no cashflow problems. &gt; It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously .
Reliable e-mail systems &gt; can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone ; removing that burden &gt; liberates a huge chip on their shoulders.Baloney .
There are plenty of stable , free email systems that have been used by massive institutions for decades .
No licensing is required to run an email system. &gt; It reduces power consumption , thus reducing monthly costs and &gt; increasing eco-friendliness.Also baloney .
Running a few email servers is not a significant cost , especially when you consider how many people can simultaneously use one system .
Also , Google is a massive power consumer , so the eco-friendliness of moving the draw from one place to another is nonsense. &gt; It makes the lives of sysadmins easier.Also baloney .
I can make your life easier by removing your responsibilities , if you like.If I do that enough , I can remove the hassle of paying you as well.You can run an enterprise email system without significant cost .
Once it 's set up , it should just run by itself , except the occasional updates or breakages that can usually be handled without the users ever knowing .
The sysadmins can go work on something else for the other 99 \ % of the time.But if the existing system was garbage , I can see people gravitating towards gmail , especially if that 's what half the people had already moved to on their own .
But you still need to consider the privacy/accountability concerns of such a move .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all, we're talking about YALE UNIVERSITY.
They have no cashflow problems.&gt; It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously.
Reliable e-mail systems&gt; can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone; removing that burden&gt; liberates a huge chip on their shoulders.Baloney.
There are plenty of stable, free email systems that have been used by massive institutions for decades.
No licensing is required to run an email system.&gt; It reduces power consumption, thus reducing monthly costs and&gt; increasing eco-friendliness.Also baloney.
Running a few email servers is not a significant cost, especially when you consider how many people can simultaneously use one system.
Also, Google is a massive power consumer, so the eco-friendliness of moving the draw from one place to another is nonsense.&gt; It makes the lives of sysadmins easier.Also baloney.
I can make your life easier by removing your responsibilities, if you like.If I do that enough, I can remove the hassle of paying you as well.You can run an enterprise email system without significant cost.
Once it's set up, it should just run by itself, except the occasional updates or breakages that can usually be handled without the users ever knowing.
The sysadmins can go work on something else for the other 99\% of the time.But if the existing system was garbage, I can see people gravitating towards gmail, especially if that's what half the people had already moved to on their own.
But you still need to consider the privacy/accountability concerns of such a move.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131670</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, so how would you feel if the US government outsourced it's<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.gov and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.mil email to the Chinese, Russian, or Iranian government?  What if that government promised they wouldn't look at it "in a bad way".  Obviously I'm exaggerating the situation, and state secrets are more important / sensitive than students' email, but in a way the same principles apply.  It's less secure because you're giving someone else control of your data.  Period.</p><p>Clearly a large university will have the money, equipment, and expertise to run their own email services, as well as the scale to make it practical.  They've been doing it for decades.  Maybe Gmail is more cost effective.  But, as is being pointed out by the groups on campus that are calling for discourse and a transparent process, it's worth considering whether the potential costs savings are worth the compromises being made, and indeed if Gmail will even be more cost effective in the long run.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , so how would you feel if the US government outsourced it 's .gov and .mil email to the Chinese , Russian , or Iranian government ?
What if that government promised they would n't look at it " in a bad way " .
Obviously I 'm exaggerating the situation , and state secrets are more important / sensitive than students ' email , but in a way the same principles apply .
It 's less secure because you 're giving someone else control of your data .
Period.Clearly a large university will have the money , equipment , and expertise to run their own email services , as well as the scale to make it practical .
They 've been doing it for decades .
Maybe Gmail is more cost effective .
But , as is being pointed out by the groups on campus that are calling for discourse and a transparent process , it 's worth considering whether the potential costs savings are worth the compromises being made , and indeed if Gmail will even be more cost effective in the long run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, so how would you feel if the US government outsourced it's .gov and .mil email to the Chinese, Russian, or Iranian government?
What if that government promised they wouldn't look at it "in a bad way".
Obviously I'm exaggerating the situation, and state secrets are more important / sensitive than students' email, but in a way the same principles apply.
It's less secure because you're giving someone else control of your data.
Period.Clearly a large university will have the money, equipment, and expertise to run their own email services, as well as the scale to make it practical.
They've been doing it for decades.
Maybe Gmail is more cost effective.
But, as is being pointed out by the groups on campus that are calling for discourse and a transparent process, it's worth considering whether the potential costs savings are worth the compromises being made, and indeed if Gmail will even be more cost effective in the long run.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31138512</id>
	<title>You can get in any time but you cannot leave</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266151920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I recently graduated from a university that was using Google Apps. The biggest problem was moving my Google Apps emails (while keeping all the labels intact) to a free gmail account. At least till a few months go there was no easy (and free) way to do it than to manually copy mails using an IMAP client (with all its idiosyncrasies).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I recently graduated from a university that was using Google Apps .
The biggest problem was moving my Google Apps emails ( while keeping all the labels intact ) to a free gmail account .
At least till a few months go there was no easy ( and free ) way to do it than to manually copy mails using an IMAP client ( with all its idiosyncrasies ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recently graduated from a university that was using Google Apps.
The biggest problem was moving my Google Apps emails (while keeping all the labels intact) to a free gmail account.
At least till a few months go there was no easy (and free) way to do it than to manually copy mails using an IMAP client (with all its idiosyncrasies).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126540</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>God, I wish my university would do this. We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.</i> <br>
<br>
You're off by a decade. 40MB account limits were more the norm in 2004. In 1994, you were fairly privileged to get 128kbps access in most places, even on campus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>God , I wish my university would do this .
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments .
You 're off by a decade .
40MB account limits were more the norm in 2004 .
In 1994 , you were fairly privileged to get 128kbps access in most places , even on campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God, I wish my university would do this.
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.
You're off by a decade.
40MB account limits were more the norm in 2004.
In 1994, you were fairly privileged to get 128kbps access in most places, even on campus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130534</id>
	<title>Using gmail may put IT workers in legal hot water.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266060840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 (FERPA  or the Buckley Amendment) should be read and understood by everyone thinking that switching to Google is a good idea.<br>A college student younger than 18 that has sensitive information transmitted by email that gets compromised may well have their parents sue an institution based on this law. One can certainly say that university operated email systems can be hacked, but they at least will have some marginal level of control, which is unavailable with Google datamining. If I were IT at a university, and I was asked to back a gmail rollout, I would want a CYA letter, not an email, from university counsel, indemnifying me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 ( FERPA or the Buckley Amendment ) should be read and understood by everyone thinking that switching to Google is a good idea.A college student younger than 18 that has sensitive information transmitted by email that gets compromised may well have their parents sue an institution based on this law .
One can certainly say that university operated email systems can be hacked , but they at least will have some marginal level of control , which is unavailable with Google datamining .
If I were IT at a university , and I was asked to back a gmail rollout , I would want a CYA letter , not an email , from university counsel , indemnifying me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 (FERPA  or the Buckley Amendment) should be read and understood by everyone thinking that switching to Google is a good idea.A college student younger than 18 that has sensitive information transmitted by email that gets compromised may well have their parents sue an institution based on this law.
One can certainly say that university operated email systems can be hacked, but they at least will have some marginal level of control, which is unavailable with Google datamining.
If I were IT at a university, and I was asked to back a gmail rollout, I would want a CYA letter, not an email, from university counsel, indemnifying me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129064</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1266092640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) Google doesn't read your email, it indexes the keywords in your emails.</p><p>2) I'd much rather have Google have access to it then somebody involved in the campus politics/social scene. At least Google has *no good reason* to read the emails... your local mail admin could (and probably would) look in inboxes to find out whether his girlfriend is cheating on him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Google does n't read your email , it indexes the keywords in your emails.2 ) I 'd much rather have Google have access to it then somebody involved in the campus politics/social scene .
At least Google has * no good reason * to read the emails... your local mail admin could ( and probably would ) look in inboxes to find out whether his girlfriend is cheating on him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Google doesn't read your email, it indexes the keywords in your emails.2) I'd much rather have Google have access to it then somebody involved in the campus politics/social scene.
At least Google has *no good reason* to read the emails... your local mail admin could (and probably would) look in inboxes to find out whether his girlfriend is cheating on him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31132958</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1266090660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly. The (very small) university that I attend went with GMail a couple years ago. I presume they evaluated the following options:</p><p>1) Keep paying an employee or contract a vast amount of money to maintain the custom pain-in-the-ass mail system that everybody hates. What happens when you get an overpaid, half-competent admin and throw in thousands of students and faculty who don't really understand how to use email in the first place but come beating down the door when the service is down? Not to mention the troubles involved with telling users how to configure their email clients.</p><p>2) Hand it all over to Google, who will do it for free. GMail is extremely stable in comparison to most homebrew email systems and does automatic spam and virus filtering. People who want their IMAP access can still have it. Those that don't get one of the best web-based email interfaces on the planet.</p><p>Doesn't seem like a hard decision to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
The ( very small ) university that I attend went with GMail a couple years ago .
I presume they evaluated the following options : 1 ) Keep paying an employee or contract a vast amount of money to maintain the custom pain-in-the-ass mail system that everybody hates .
What happens when you get an overpaid , half-competent admin and throw in thousands of students and faculty who do n't really understand how to use email in the first place but come beating down the door when the service is down ?
Not to mention the troubles involved with telling users how to configure their email clients.2 ) Hand it all over to Google , who will do it for free .
GMail is extremely stable in comparison to most homebrew email systems and does automatic spam and virus filtering .
People who want their IMAP access can still have it .
Those that do n't get one of the best web-based email interfaces on the planet.Does n't seem like a hard decision to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
The (very small) university that I attend went with GMail a couple years ago.
I presume they evaluated the following options:1) Keep paying an employee or contract a vast amount of money to maintain the custom pain-in-the-ass mail system that everybody hates.
What happens when you get an overpaid, half-competent admin and throw in thousands of students and faculty who don't really understand how to use email in the first place but come beating down the door when the service is down?
Not to mention the troubles involved with telling users how to configure their email clients.2) Hand it all over to Google, who will do it for free.
GMail is extremely stable in comparison to most homebrew email systems and does automatic spam and virus filtering.
People who want their IMAP access can still have it.
Those that don't get one of the best web-based email interfaces on the planet.Doesn't seem like a hard decision to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128482</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1266088140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ha! In 1990 I had 1MB of storage space on the University mainframe, and that was for everything.

I used to use my Atari ST for coursework, because it had way more storage space, and was faster at running my Lisp programs.

(Granted, the mainframe was shared with a hundred other people, but still... My share of it was slower than an ST.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha !
In 1990 I had 1MB of storage space on the University mainframe , and that was for everything .
I used to use my Atari ST for coursework , because it had way more storage space , and was faster at running my Lisp programs .
( Granted , the mainframe was shared with a hundred other people , but still... My share of it was slower than an ST. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha!
In 1990 I had 1MB of storage space on the University mainframe, and that was for everything.
I used to use my Atari ST for coursework, because it had way more storage space, and was faster at running my Lisp programs.
(Granted, the mainframe was shared with a hundred other people, but still... My share of it was slower than an ST.)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131790</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>cawpin</author>
	<datestamp>1266073980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use folder extensively on all 3 accounts. I use Thunderbird with IMAP access as my main client at home. I have a Droid with all 3 accounts synced and use the web interface occasionally. I have never had any problems with folders that I didn't, discovered later, cause myself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use folder extensively on all 3 accounts .
I use Thunderbird with IMAP access as my main client at home .
I have a Droid with all 3 accounts synced and use the web interface occasionally .
I have never had any problems with folders that I did n't , discovered later , cause myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use folder extensively on all 3 accounts.
I use Thunderbird with IMAP access as my main client at home.
I have a Droid with all 3 accounts synced and use the web interface occasionally.
I have never had any problems with folders that I didn't, discovered later, cause myself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127502</id>
	<title>Never heard of this other email system</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1266080880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Yale Switching To Gmail, Not Without Opposition</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Hmmm, I've never heard of this other email system called Without Opposition. Is that supposed to imply that it's so good it'll generate no opposition? <b>But</b> I guess Gmail proved them wrong in this case.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yale Switching To Gmail , Not Without Opposition Hmmm , I 've never heard of this other email system called Without Opposition .
Is that supposed to imply that it 's so good it 'll generate no opposition ?
But I guess Gmail proved them wrong in this case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yale Switching To Gmail, Not Without Opposition
Hmmm, I've never heard of this other email system called Without Opposition.
Is that supposed to imply that it's so good it'll generate no opposition?
But I guess Gmail proved them wrong in this case.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131166</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266067080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google.</p></div><p>(Please ignore my run-on sentence structure)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>Trying not to personally attack you but that comes across somewhat like willful ignorance.</p><p>You mean it is more likely that some EMPLOYEE, who can be reprimanded, demoted and even fired (ie: accountability enforced) is a worse choice to handle your email than an automated system which will do whatever it has been programmed to do? And which can do it to ALL user accounts simultaneously? And which we already know WILL be reading through those emails (for keyword/key phrases)..??</p><p>Yes, we can write (shell) scripts and various other options to automate shenanigans, but that would require effort on the part of your admin whereas it is by definition a given for the gmail option.</p><p>Doesn't sound so bad at first, but unless the whole encryption thing is a default.. doesn't sound so good either.</p><p>darn, gotta go find my login..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google .
( Please ignore my run-on sentence structure ) ; ) Trying not to personally attack you but that comes across somewhat like willful ignorance.You mean it is more likely that some EMPLOYEE , who can be reprimanded , demoted and even fired ( ie : accountability enforced ) is a worse choice to handle your email than an automated system which will do whatever it has been programmed to do ?
And which can do it to ALL user accounts simultaneously ?
And which we already know WILL be reading through those emails ( for keyword/key phrases ) .. ?
? Yes , we can write ( shell ) scripts and various other options to automate shenanigans , but that would require effort on the part of your admin whereas it is by definition a given for the gmail option.Does n't sound so bad at first , but unless the whole encryption thing is a default.. does n't sound so good either.darn , got ta go find my login. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google.
(Please ignore my run-on sentence structure) ;)Trying not to personally attack you but that comes across somewhat like willful ignorance.You mean it is more likely that some EMPLOYEE, who can be reprimanded, demoted and even fired (ie: accountability enforced) is a worse choice to handle your email than an automated system which will do whatever it has been programmed to do?
And which can do it to ALL user accounts simultaneously?
And which we already know WILL be reading through those emails (for keyword/key phrases)..?
?Yes, we can write (shell) scripts and various other options to automate shenanigans, but that would require effort on the part of your admin whereas it is by definition a given for the gmail option.Doesn't sound so bad at first, but unless the whole encryption thing is a default.. doesn't sound so good either.darn, gotta go find my login..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126822</id>
	<title>Much to do about nothing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266075540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>University &amp; College servers/email are all hopelessly bad in general and 5 to 10 years behind.<br>Google is a step up!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>University &amp; College servers/email are all hopelessly bad in general and 5 to 10 years behind.Google is a step up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>University &amp; College servers/email are all hopelessly bad in general and 5 to 10 years behind.Google is a step up!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127204</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266078900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kids your days...<br>When I was at school, everyone used vi<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var/spool/mail/$USER</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kids your days...When I was at school , everyone used vi /var/spool/mail/ $ USER</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kids your days...When I was at school, everyone used vi /var/spool/mail/$USER</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126226</id>
	<title>Gmail also occasionally goes down</title>
	<author>PiAndWhippedCream</author>
	<datestamp>1266069540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It only happens sometimes, but it could bring a university to a grinding halt.  And give a LOT of people a very bad 2.5 hours.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It only happens sometimes , but it could bring a university to a grinding halt .
And give a LOT of people a very bad 2.5 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It only happens sometimes, but it could bring a university to a grinding halt.
And give a LOT of people a very bad 2.5 hours.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127616</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266081660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Labs is available to google apps for education. It is an option your admin can turn on or off. I turned it on for my college and my users love it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Labs is available to google apps for education .
It is an option your admin can turn on or off .
I turned it on for my college and my users love it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Labs is available to google apps for education.
It is an option your admin can turn on or off.
I turned it on for my college and my users love it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126270</id>
	<title>They Need To</title>
	<author>DynaSoar</author>
	<datestamp>1266070080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was with their dept of psychiatry at the med school, they had terrible problems with constantly infected and reinfecting machines, both theirs and customers'. They had good admins, but couldn't keep up. With email farmed out, perhaps they can tackle the problem now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was with their dept of psychiatry at the med school , they had terrible problems with constantly infected and reinfecting machines , both theirs and customers' .
They had good admins , but could n't keep up .
With email farmed out , perhaps they can tackle the problem now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was with their dept of psychiatry at the med school, they had terrible problems with constantly infected and reinfecting machines, both theirs and customers'.
They had good admins, but couldn't keep up.
With email farmed out, perhaps they can tackle the problem now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31133136</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Dan541</author>
	<datestamp>1266180720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At my university we can change our contact email address and that's the address that's used for contact from then on. The student email also redirects automatically but it's extremely rare that anything ever gets sent to my student email, in fact I have only ever used my student address to join a network on facebook. The university sends everything to my actual address.</p><p>Your university needs something better than just redirecting email.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At my university we can change our contact email address and that 's the address that 's used for contact from then on .
The student email also redirects automatically but it 's extremely rare that anything ever gets sent to my student email , in fact I have only ever used my student address to join a network on facebook .
The university sends everything to my actual address.Your university needs something better than just redirecting email .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my university we can change our contact email address and that's the address that's used for contact from then on.
The student email also redirects automatically but it's extremely rare that anything ever gets sent to my student email, in fact I have only ever used my student address to join a network on facebook.
The university sends everything to my actual address.Your university needs something better than just redirecting email.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127992</id>
	<title>Amazing really</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1266084720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't they have a CS department? You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.</p><p>A prestigious university like Yale can't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place. Hopefully they didn't pay for such an unjustified publicity boost for Google.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't they have a CS department ?
You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.A prestigious university like Yale ca n't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place .
Hopefully they did n't pay for such an unjustified publicity boost for Google .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't they have a CS department?
You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.A prestigious university like Yale can't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place.
Hopefully they didn't pay for such an unjustified publicity boost for Google.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129492</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>loserMcloser</author>
	<datestamp>1266052680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL. When you sign up with google, you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.</i> </p><p>Not if you have a legally binding contract with them in which Google agrees that they will NOT read your email. My institution is also considering switching to GMail, and I recently attended an FAQ presentation on the process. One of the points stressed is that the contract with Google will explicitly state that university data is the property of the university and/or its faculty/employees, and that Google can't touch it other than actually providing the contracted services.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL .
When you sign up with google , you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT .
Not if you have a legally binding contract with them in which Google agrees that they will NOT read your email .
My institution is also considering switching to GMail , and I recently attended an FAQ presentation on the process .
One of the points stressed is that the contract with Google will explicitly state that university data is the property of the university and/or its faculty/employees , and that Google ca n't touch it other than actually providing the contracted services .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL.
When you sign up with google, you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.
Not if you have a legally binding contract with them in which Google agrees that they will NOT read your email.
My institution is also considering switching to GMail, and I recently attended an FAQ presentation on the process.
One of the points stressed is that the contract with Google will explicitly state that university data is the property of the university and/or its faculty/employees, and that Google can't touch it other than actually providing the contracted services.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128374</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>cawpin</author>
	<datestamp>1266087300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Google's IMAP implementation is horrible, to the point of only barely being usable.</p></div><p>Um, no? I have 3 Gmail accounts all accessed through IMAP and they all work perfectly and always have. Making a blanket statement about an entire implementation is completely groundless. YOU may have problems, and I know it would suck, but GMail works perfectly fine for 99\% of people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google 's IMAP implementation is horrible , to the point of only barely being usable.Um , no ?
I have 3 Gmail accounts all accessed through IMAP and they all work perfectly and always have .
Making a blanket statement about an entire implementation is completely groundless .
YOU may have problems , and I know it would suck , but GMail works perfectly fine for 99 \ % of people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google's IMAP implementation is horrible, to the point of only barely being usable.Um, no?
I have 3 Gmail accounts all accessed through IMAP and they all work perfectly and always have.
Making a blanket statement about an entire implementation is completely groundless.
YOU may have problems, and I know it would suck, but GMail works perfectly fine for 99\% of people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127146</id>
	<title>Re:Up in arms? Really?</title>
	<author>TiberiusMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1266078480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The students and faculty don't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks.</p></div><p>...you don't think that has anything to do with the payroll not being sold to advertisers do you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The students and faculty do n't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks....you do n't think that has anything to do with the payroll not being sold to advertisers do you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The students and faculty don't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks....you don't think that has anything to do with the payroll not being sold to advertisers do you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126416</id>
	<title>Good on them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at a large University considering the same thing.  I like the idea.  A couple of points.</p><p>* Just forwarding is not the same as having a hosted solution.  Branding is important, and Colleges/Universities don't want to give that up.</p><p>* The answer to people's privacy concerns is the same as it's ever been.  Privacy is the <b>end-user's</b> responsibility.  SMTP has never been, and will never be, a private communication protocol.  Recall the recent survey indicating that some 30\% of sysadmins admit to violating people's privacy.  Encrypt your messages, if that's important to you.</p><p>* Show me a privately hosted email solution that allows you to easily manage multiple gigabytes of storage per user.</p><p>* Email is a commodity.  It's uninteresting, from a competitive practices point of view - but everyone must have it.  The easier and cheaper, the better.</p><p>* You can continue using pretty much any email client you like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at a large University considering the same thing .
I like the idea .
A couple of points .
* Just forwarding is not the same as having a hosted solution .
Branding is important , and Colleges/Universities do n't want to give that up .
* The answer to people 's privacy concerns is the same as it 's ever been .
Privacy is the end-user 's responsibility .
SMTP has never been , and will never be , a private communication protocol .
Recall the recent survey indicating that some 30 \ % of sysadmins admit to violating people 's privacy .
Encrypt your messages , if that 's important to you .
* Show me a privately hosted email solution that allows you to easily manage multiple gigabytes of storage per user .
* Email is a commodity .
It 's uninteresting , from a competitive practices point of view - but everyone must have it .
The easier and cheaper , the better .
* You can continue using pretty much any email client you like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at a large University considering the same thing.
I like the idea.
A couple of points.
* Just forwarding is not the same as having a hosted solution.
Branding is important, and Colleges/Universities don't want to give that up.
* The answer to people's privacy concerns is the same as it's ever been.
Privacy is the end-user's responsibility.
SMTP has never been, and will never be, a private communication protocol.
Recall the recent survey indicating that some 30\% of sysadmins admit to violating people's privacy.
Encrypt your messages, if that's important to you.
* Show me a privately hosted email solution that allows you to easily manage multiple gigabytes of storage per user.
* Email is a commodity.
It's uninteresting, from a competitive practices point of view - but everyone must have it.
The easier and cheaper, the better.
* You can continue using pretty much any email client you like.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126626</id>
	<title>Google single handedly failed a course</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266073500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About a year and a semester ago, Temple University in Philadelphia did the same thing, right in the middle of the middle of the semester.  Needless to say, this took many people by surprise, including me.  The IT staff promised that all our old email would be backed up onto google and that the switchover would be flawless.  It wasn't.  For me, they did not migrate my emails, meaning that over 3 years of emails were lost.  But that wasn't the worst of it.  I would receive emails intermittently and many times not at all.  No one could receive my outgoing ones, which meant that the work that I had done for a group project was not received by them.  Of course I didn't know this at the time, I bought the party line.  It was only after the teacher met with me and said that the group complained to him that I hadn't done any work for the group and failed me from the course right there.  Now I was ignorant and should have contacted the group to make sure that they received my work but I was ignorant and stupid.  It wasn't a problem for me to send emails before, but ever since then, the problems have remained.  I use Google services as I would use a poison and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn how to eradicate it from my life. I have grown to rely on a thing that I despise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About a year and a semester ago , Temple University in Philadelphia did the same thing , right in the middle of the middle of the semester .
Needless to say , this took many people by surprise , including me .
The IT staff promised that all our old email would be backed up onto google and that the switchover would be flawless .
It was n't .
For me , they did not migrate my emails , meaning that over 3 years of emails were lost .
But that was n't the worst of it .
I would receive emails intermittently and many times not at all .
No one could receive my outgoing ones , which meant that the work that I had done for a group project was not received by them .
Of course I did n't know this at the time , I bought the party line .
It was only after the teacher met with me and said that the group complained to him that I had n't done any work for the group and failed me from the course right there .
Now I was ignorant and should have contacted the group to make sure that they received my work but I was ignorant and stupid .
It was n't a problem for me to send emails before , but ever since then , the problems have remained .
I use Google services as I would use a poison and in the hopes of understanding it , I will learn how to eradicate it from my life .
I have grown to rely on a thing that I despise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About a year and a semester ago, Temple University in Philadelphia did the same thing, right in the middle of the middle of the semester.
Needless to say, this took many people by surprise, including me.
The IT staff promised that all our old email would be backed up onto google and that the switchover would be flawless.
It wasn't.
For me, they did not migrate my emails, meaning that over 3 years of emails were lost.
But that wasn't the worst of it.
I would receive emails intermittently and many times not at all.
No one could receive my outgoing ones, which meant that the work that I had done for a group project was not received by them.
Of course I didn't know this at the time, I bought the party line.
It was only after the teacher met with me and said that the group complained to him that I hadn't done any work for the group and failed me from the course right there.
Now I was ignorant and should have contacted the group to make sure that they received my work but I was ignorant and stupid.
It wasn't a problem for me to send emails before, but ever since then, the problems have remained.
I use Google services as I would use a poison and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn how to eradicate it from my life.
I have grown to rely on a thing that I despise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126496</id>
	<title>Why University Mail Anyway?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in the 90's, it made sense for Universities to create a mail service -- many students had no other access to email in those days.  But why today, when there are so many free email options?  There is really no good reason for Colleges to be in this business, and it totally makes sense to turn it over to Google or some other company that will do it for free.   We did a study at our University and found the cost savings to be in the range of $500,000 per year, which actually is money that some people felt they could use elsewhere<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)    (This argument may not apply to University employees, such as faculty -- it may be prudent to provide an in-house or contracted email service for this small group, but at a fraction of the cost required for the entire student body)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in the 90 's , it made sense for Universities to create a mail service -- many students had no other access to email in those days .
But why today , when there are so many free email options ?
There is really no good reason for Colleges to be in this business , and it totally makes sense to turn it over to Google or some other company that will do it for free .
We did a study at our University and found the cost savings to be in the range of $ 500,000 per year , which actually is money that some people felt they could use elsewhere : ) ( This argument may not apply to University employees , such as faculty -- it may be prudent to provide an in-house or contracted email service for this small group , but at a fraction of the cost required for the entire student body )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in the 90's, it made sense for Universities to create a mail service -- many students had no other access to email in those days.
But why today, when there are so many free email options?
There is really no good reason for Colleges to be in this business, and it totally makes sense to turn it over to Google or some other company that will do it for free.
We did a study at our University and found the cost savings to be in the range of $500,000 per year, which actually is money that some people felt they could use elsewhere :)    (This argument may not apply to University employees, such as faculty -- it may be prudent to provide an in-house or contracted email service for this small group, but at a fraction of the cost required for the entire student body)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126482</id>
	<title>No problems involving choice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can go to Yale, or you can NOT go to Yale.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can go to Yale , or you can NOT go to Yale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can go to Yale, or you can NOT go to Yale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129610</id>
	<title>Stupidity or FUD?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266053460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The (certainly partial) folks crying about the transition are missing the main point. Yale is doing it to save money. Companies all over the world understand that they should leave tasks that are not their core competencies to others, and IT is becoming one of them. Those who think IT is strategic and too close to the bottom line should consider that most large corporations partner with financial companies to manage their capital.</p><p>Complaints about the transition of Yale to Gmail usually fall into a few categories:</p><p>- We'll lose our privacy. Those who wave the privacy flag have likely never read the privacy policy of their institution and compared it to Google's. </p><p>- We will have no choice. They seem to ignore that Google allows you to use IMAP and POP3 to get your e-mail wherever you want. And that Yale did not give them any choice before either.</p><p>- Gmail can fail and we can lose access to our e-mail. As opposed to the current Yale e-mail system, which never fails. Plus Gmail, as noted above, allows you to download your messages to any e-mail program you choose. And it has offline access.</p><p>- (if honesty was in their arsenal) Their system will make a lot of the in house IT obsolete, as it should be, and will destroy the income of that legion of undergrads that maintain it. True. Nonetheless, during your college years, you should be focusing on more productive things than a set of skills that are increasingly becoming irrelevant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The ( certainly partial ) folks crying about the transition are missing the main point .
Yale is doing it to save money .
Companies all over the world understand that they should leave tasks that are not their core competencies to others , and IT is becoming one of them .
Those who think IT is strategic and too close to the bottom line should consider that most large corporations partner with financial companies to manage their capital.Complaints about the transition of Yale to Gmail usually fall into a few categories : - We 'll lose our privacy .
Those who wave the privacy flag have likely never read the privacy policy of their institution and compared it to Google 's .
- We will have no choice .
They seem to ignore that Google allows you to use IMAP and POP3 to get your e-mail wherever you want .
And that Yale did not give them any choice before either.- Gmail can fail and we can lose access to our e-mail .
As opposed to the current Yale e-mail system , which never fails .
Plus Gmail , as noted above , allows you to download your messages to any e-mail program you choose .
And it has offline access.- ( if honesty was in their arsenal ) Their system will make a lot of the in house IT obsolete , as it should be , and will destroy the income of that legion of undergrads that maintain it .
True. Nonetheless , during your college years , you should be focusing on more productive things than a set of skills that are increasingly becoming irrelevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The (certainly partial) folks crying about the transition are missing the main point.
Yale is doing it to save money.
Companies all over the world understand that they should leave tasks that are not their core competencies to others, and IT is becoming one of them.
Those who think IT is strategic and too close to the bottom line should consider that most large corporations partner with financial companies to manage their capital.Complaints about the transition of Yale to Gmail usually fall into a few categories:- We'll lose our privacy.
Those who wave the privacy flag have likely never read the privacy policy of their institution and compared it to Google's.
- We will have no choice.
They seem to ignore that Google allows you to use IMAP and POP3 to get your e-mail wherever you want.
And that Yale did not give them any choice before either.- Gmail can fail and we can lose access to our e-mail.
As opposed to the current Yale e-mail system, which never fails.
Plus Gmail, as noted above, allows you to download your messages to any e-mail program you choose.
And it has offline access.- (if honesty was in their arsenal) Their system will make a lot of the in house IT obsolete, as it should be, and will destroy the income of that legion of undergrads that maintain it.
True. Nonetheless, during your college years, you should be focusing on more productive things than a set of skills that are increasingly becoming irrelevant.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127958</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266084360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>F U D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>F U D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>F U D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128130</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266085680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>our current Horde email client is slow, awful, clumsy, memory hoggish, inelegant, has a stupid address book, poor ability to format anything or interpret HTML, and it has trouble handling attachments.  Other than that is OK, I guess, with cute graphics for things.</p><p>We had a simple client before, IMP, then we were forced into stupid HORDE.  Please, unleash the Google.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>our current Horde email client is slow , awful , clumsy , memory hoggish , inelegant , has a stupid address book , poor ability to format anything or interpret HTML , and it has trouble handling attachments .
Other than that is OK , I guess , with cute graphics for things.We had a simple client before , IMP , then we were forced into stupid HORDE .
Please , unleash the Google .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>our current Horde email client is slow, awful, clumsy, memory hoggish, inelegant, has a stupid address book, poor ability to format anything or interpret HTML, and it has trouble handling attachments.
Other than that is OK, I guess, with cute graphics for things.We had a simple client before, IMP, then we were forced into stupid HORDE.
Please, unleash the Google.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126554</id>
	<title>Nothing amiss about it</title>
	<author>chazzf</author>
	<datestamp>1266072840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lots of colleges and universities are switching over to Google. The reasons are pretty straightforward: Google offers more storage space than most higher ed IT departments could reasonably afford and the move relieves them of the need to administer an email server. See <a href="http://www.networkcomputing.com/backup-recovery/google-hopes-to-build-email-empire-on-freebies.php" title="networkcomputing.com">this article</a> [networkcomputing.com] for an overview. Even Hope, in Taco's home town, switched over a couple years back and I know they've been pretty happy with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of colleges and universities are switching over to Google .
The reasons are pretty straightforward : Google offers more storage space than most higher ed IT departments could reasonably afford and the move relieves them of the need to administer an email server .
See this article [ networkcomputing.com ] for an overview .
Even Hope , in Taco 's home town , switched over a couple years back and I know they 've been pretty happy with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of colleges and universities are switching over to Google.
The reasons are pretty straightforward: Google offers more storage space than most higher ed IT departments could reasonably afford and the move relieves them of the need to administer an email server.
See this article [networkcomputing.com] for an overview.
Even Hope, in Taco's home town, switched over a couple years back and I know they've been pretty happy with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126790</id>
	<title>IF they switch to Gmail...</title>
	<author>dcartman</author>
	<datestamp>1266075180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they switch to Gmail for the Horde servers it will ONLY affect their student population and few outlying departments.  The main e-mail and calendaring system at Yale is Exchange.

This switch, if it happens, is probably one to free up resources.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they switch to Gmail for the Horde servers it will ONLY affect their student population and few outlying departments .
The main e-mail and calendaring system at Yale is Exchange .
This switch , if it happens , is probably one to free up resources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they switch to Gmail for the Horde servers it will ONLY affect their student population and few outlying departments.
The main e-mail and calendaring system at Yale is Exchange.
This switch, if it happens, is probably one to free up resources.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129970</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing really</title>
	<author>raju1kabir</author>
	<datestamp>1266056160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A prestigious university like Yale can't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place.</p></div></blockquote><p>Having also attended graduate school there, I was shocked and dismayed by the childish and incompetent atmosphere in Yale's IT services. Prestigious the university may be, but the IT facilities they provide for students are dismal. That Yale ITS are still unable to effectively manage an email system, to the point where it has become easier to cut them out of the loop entirely, comes as no surprise to me. Back in my time, email was accessed via Pine on an overburdened and often-inaccessible Sun machine (minerva.cis.yale.edu anyone?) that was run by some of the most unprofessional people I ever had the displeasure of encountering. Basically, they ran things like they were sysops at some penny-ante BBS.
</p><p>Compared to my undergraduate experience, at a state school which was (and remains) on the cutting edge of technology, and where the IT infrastructure was effectively and professionally managed, it was a real eye-opener.</p><blockquote><div><p>Don't they have a CS department? You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.</p></div></blockquote><p>You're probably thinking of Berkeley. Yale does have a CS department (not a big one), and there are some smart cookies there, but the smarts seem pretty well contained within the academic sphere.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A prestigious university like Yale ca n't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place.Having also attended graduate school there , I was shocked and dismayed by the childish and incompetent atmosphere in Yale 's IT services .
Prestigious the university may be , but the IT facilities they provide for students are dismal .
That Yale ITS are still unable to effectively manage an email system , to the point where it has become easier to cut them out of the loop entirely , comes as no surprise to me .
Back in my time , email was accessed via Pine on an overburdened and often-inaccessible Sun machine ( minerva.cis.yale.edu anyone ?
) that was run by some of the most unprofessional people I ever had the displeasure of encountering .
Basically , they ran things like they were sysops at some penny-ante BBS .
Compared to my undergraduate experience , at a state school which was ( and remains ) on the cutting edge of technology , and where the IT infrastructure was effectively and professionally managed , it was a real eye-opener.Do n't they have a CS department ?
You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.You 're probably thinking of Berkeley .
Yale does have a CS department ( not a big one ) , and there are some smart cookies there , but the smarts seem pretty well contained within the academic sphere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A prestigious university like Yale can't implement their own webmail/imap system and relies on Google handing all the student data at first place.Having also attended graduate school there, I was shocked and dismayed by the childish and incompetent atmosphere in Yale's IT services.
Prestigious the university may be, but the IT facilities they provide for students are dismal.
That Yale ITS are still unable to effectively manage an email system, to the point where it has become easier to cut them out of the loop entirely, comes as no surprise to me.
Back in my time, email was accessed via Pine on an overburdened and often-inaccessible Sun machine (minerva.cis.yale.edu anyone?
) that was run by some of the most unprofessional people I ever had the displeasure of encountering.
Basically, they ran things like they were sysops at some penny-ante BBS.
Compared to my undergraduate experience, at a state school which was (and remains) on the cutting edge of technology, and where the IT infrastructure was effectively and professionally managed, it was a real eye-opener.Don't they have a CS department?
You know most of the UNIX tools which are in use are actually invented/developed by the students studying in that particular university.You're probably thinking of Berkeley.
Yale does have a CS department (not a big one), and there are some smart cookies there, but the smarts seem pretty well contained within the academic sphere.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129402</id>
	<title>They most certainly are not free</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1266052140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>They are providing this service for free</i></p><p>Wrong.  Google hosted mail (which I use for my company) is not free.  You pay Google to have access to an smtp server that accepts your domain, and have user accounts...</p><p>If you don't want Google to be able to see email then encrypt it.  You say you are "insane" to send student records over gmail, but why are you not equally "insane" to send it from any other server when it may travel the whole internet to reach a student, or even if the student address is local they are just forwarding to GMail anyway?</p><p>There's no issue with email that is not just as much a problem if you have local email servers vs. using Google, only managing email servers is one of the suckier aspects of being an SA and definitely a thing worth strong consideration of outsourcing... if not Google, then someone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are providing this service for freeWrong .
Google hosted mail ( which I use for my company ) is not free .
You pay Google to have access to an smtp server that accepts your domain , and have user accounts...If you do n't want Google to be able to see email then encrypt it .
You say you are " insane " to send student records over gmail , but why are you not equally " insane " to send it from any other server when it may travel the whole internet to reach a student , or even if the student address is local they are just forwarding to GMail anyway ? There 's no issue with email that is not just as much a problem if you have local email servers vs. using Google , only managing email servers is one of the suckier aspects of being an SA and definitely a thing worth strong consideration of outsourcing... if not Google , then someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are providing this service for freeWrong.
Google hosted mail (which I use for my company) is not free.
You pay Google to have access to an smtp server that accepts your domain, and have user accounts...If you don't want Google to be able to see email then encrypt it.
You say you are "insane" to send student records over gmail, but why are you not equally "insane" to send it from any other server when it may travel the whole internet to reach a student, or even if the student address is local they are just forwarding to GMail anyway?There's no issue with email that is not just as much a problem if you have local email servers vs. using Google, only managing email servers is one of the suckier aspects of being an SA and definitely a thing worth strong consideration of outsourcing... if not Google, then someone else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128424</id>
	<title>Re:Opt out?</title>
	<author>smd75</author>
	<datestamp>1266087600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except at some universities, like mine, there were lots of things sent to your university account. Some classes required it. Not exactly opt-out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except at some universities , like mine , there were lots of things sent to your university account .
Some classes required it .
Not exactly opt-out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except at some universities, like mine, there were lots of things sent to your university account.
Some classes required it.
Not exactly opt-out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127118</id>
	<title>Join the Real World</title>
	<author>iCharles</author>
	<datestamp>1266078240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My office supplies me an e-mail account for work. I accept the privacy implications there (i.e. there are none). I also have various personal e-mail accounts. I assume my employer won't have access to them (absent a subpoena), and I take into account whatever privacy concerns might be associated with the service I choose to use.
<p>Assuming that Yale isn't blocking access for other mail services, I fail to see how this is any different. Use the yale.edu account for school related matters, and get your own account for private messages.
</p><p>
Of course, this also means that Yale's IT organization has taken into account the implications outsourcing has on the school's intellectual property, etc. As part of the RFP and selection process, these items should be taken into account to ensure the outsourcer's offering has sufficient controls.

This is really no different than any large organization choosing to select Exchange, Notes, GroupWise, or outsourcing the service through any number of third party providers.

*I do recognize that Google Buzz does change the thought process for GMail users. Of course, that is also a contract issue with Google-as-outsourcer (i.e. privacy and intellectual property protections should be built into the contract, and the outsourcer is obliged to ensure their offering meets the contract specifications).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My office supplies me an e-mail account for work .
I accept the privacy implications there ( i.e .
there are none ) .
I also have various personal e-mail accounts .
I assume my employer wo n't have access to them ( absent a subpoena ) , and I take into account whatever privacy concerns might be associated with the service I choose to use .
Assuming that Yale is n't blocking access for other mail services , I fail to see how this is any different .
Use the yale.edu account for school related matters , and get your own account for private messages .
Of course , this also means that Yale 's IT organization has taken into account the implications outsourcing has on the school 's intellectual property , etc .
As part of the RFP and selection process , these items should be taken into account to ensure the outsourcer 's offering has sufficient controls .
This is really no different than any large organization choosing to select Exchange , Notes , GroupWise , or outsourcing the service through any number of third party providers .
* I do recognize that Google Buzz does change the thought process for GMail users .
Of course , that is also a contract issue with Google-as-outsourcer ( i.e .
privacy and intellectual property protections should be built into the contract , and the outsourcer is obliged to ensure their offering meets the contract specifications ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My office supplies me an e-mail account for work.
I accept the privacy implications there (i.e.
there are none).
I also have various personal e-mail accounts.
I assume my employer won't have access to them (absent a subpoena), and I take into account whatever privacy concerns might be associated with the service I choose to use.
Assuming that Yale isn't blocking access for other mail services, I fail to see how this is any different.
Use the yale.edu account for school related matters, and get your own account for private messages.
Of course, this also means that Yale's IT organization has taken into account the implications outsourcing has on the school's intellectual property, etc.
As part of the RFP and selection process, these items should be taken into account to ensure the outsourcer's offering has sufficient controls.
This is really no different than any large organization choosing to select Exchange, Notes, GroupWise, or outsourcing the service through any number of third party providers.
*I do recognize that Google Buzz does change the thought process for GMail users.
Of course, that is also a contract issue with Google-as-outsourcer (i.e.
privacy and intellectual property protections should be built into the contract, and the outsourcer is obliged to ensure their offering meets the contract specifications).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31148200</id>
	<title>University at Buffalo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266226680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The University at Buffalo did this months ago. All new incoming students receive a google powered @buffalo.edu account. With over 20k in a student population it saves a ton of work for the University. The savings are not only with regard to storage and server maintenance upkeep, but we've also had a reduction in helpdesk calls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The University at Buffalo did this months ago .
All new incoming students receive a google powered @ buffalo.edu account .
With over 20k in a student population it saves a ton of work for the University .
The savings are not only with regard to storage and server maintenance upkeep , but we 've also had a reduction in helpdesk calls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The University at Buffalo did this months ago.
All new incoming students receive a google powered @buffalo.edu account.
With over 20k in a student population it saves a ton of work for the University.
The savings are not only with regard to storage and server maintenance upkeep, but we've also had a reduction in helpdesk calls.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128626</id>
	<title>Re:Opt out?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266089100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, and don't send email to gmail accounts. Right. That's all you need to do.</p><p>I believe you can still keep your domain and use gmail, so you can't even be sure you're not sending to gmail by the address.</p><p>And your browser is most likely communicating with google even while you read this. Go ahead, check your connections.</p><p>There is no opt out with google, including not using google. That's the problem. If google was 100\% opt in, you'd have the right idea. It's not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , and do n't send email to gmail accounts .
Right. That 's all you need to do.I believe you can still keep your domain and use gmail , so you ca n't even be sure you 're not sending to gmail by the address.And your browser is most likely communicating with google even while you read this .
Go ahead , check your connections.There is no opt out with google , including not using google .
That 's the problem .
If google was 100 \ % opt in , you 'd have the right idea .
It 's not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, and don't send email to gmail accounts.
Right. That's all you need to do.I believe you can still keep your domain and use gmail, so you can't even be sure you're not sending to gmail by the address.And your browser is most likely communicating with google even while you read this.
Go ahead, check your connections.There is no opt out with google, including not using google.
That's the problem.
If google was 100\% opt in, you'd have the right idea.
It's not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129836</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266054900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gmail does not implement IMAP standard correctly. I am aware of two currently existing problems (and there were more iirc): ENVELOPE response is occasionally misformed for more complex messages. Gmail sends EXPUNGE unsolicited responses when it is forbidden by the standard. Gmail sends the responses to some queries out of order - this behaviour is formally correct but is not what some IMAP clients expect.

Still, many  IMAP clients which use IMAP in a POP fashion and never - or rarely - encounter these problems. Try using a more sophisticated IMAP client which makes an effort to optimize the amount of transferred data and keeps long-lived network connections the way IMAP was designed for - and you will understand what the grandparent had in mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gmail does not implement IMAP standard correctly .
I am aware of two currently existing problems ( and there were more iirc ) : ENVELOPE response is occasionally misformed for more complex messages .
Gmail sends EXPUNGE unsolicited responses when it is forbidden by the standard .
Gmail sends the responses to some queries out of order - this behaviour is formally correct but is not what some IMAP clients expect .
Still , many IMAP clients which use IMAP in a POP fashion and never - or rarely - encounter these problems .
Try using a more sophisticated IMAP client which makes an effort to optimize the amount of transferred data and keeps long-lived network connections the way IMAP was designed for - and you will understand what the grandparent had in mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gmail does not implement IMAP standard correctly.
I am aware of two currently existing problems (and there were more iirc): ENVELOPE response is occasionally misformed for more complex messages.
Gmail sends EXPUNGE unsolicited responses when it is forbidden by the standard.
Gmail sends the responses to some queries out of order - this behaviour is formally correct but is not what some IMAP clients expect.
Still, many  IMAP clients which use IMAP in a POP fashion and never - or rarely - encounter these problems.
Try using a more sophisticated IMAP client which makes an effort to optimize the amount of transferred data and keeps long-lived network connections the way IMAP was designed for - and you will understand what the grandparent had in mind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127444</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266080460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your ISP also "reads" your mails. If you want to make sure nobody will read a mail save it's recipient, then use encryption. <a href="http://getfiregpg.org/" title="getfiregpg.org" rel="nofollow">FireGPG</a> [getfiregpg.org] works great on Gmail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your ISP also " reads " your mails .
If you want to make sure nobody will read a mail save it 's recipient , then use encryption .
FireGPG [ getfiregpg.org ] works great on Gmail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your ISP also "reads" your mails.
If you want to make sure nobody will read a mail save it's recipient, then use encryption.
FireGPG [getfiregpg.org] works great on Gmail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126466</id>
	<title>It almost certainly isn't the IT dept</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The IT dept will have a budget. That budget is set by whoever controls the finances. If the person controlling the finances thinks you are only worth 40Mb of storage, then that's all the IT dept will give you.</p><p>If you want more, then bitch to whomever controls the finances. There is almost certainly no point bitching to IT because they can only go to the finance people and say give us more money. The people controlling the money aren't feeling the pain so why should they spend the money?</p><p>BTW, this isn't just for IT. This is any organisation, government or private.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The IT dept will have a budget .
That budget is set by whoever controls the finances .
If the person controlling the finances thinks you are only worth 40Mb of storage , then that 's all the IT dept will give you.If you want more , then bitch to whomever controls the finances .
There is almost certainly no point bitching to IT because they can only go to the finance people and say give us more money .
The people controlling the money are n't feeling the pain so why should they spend the money ? BTW , this is n't just for IT .
This is any organisation , government or private .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The IT dept will have a budget.
That budget is set by whoever controls the finances.
If the person controlling the finances thinks you are only worth 40Mb of storage, then that's all the IT dept will give you.If you want more, then bitch to whomever controls the finances.
There is almost certainly no point bitching to IT because they can only go to the finance people and say give us more money.
The people controlling the money aren't feeling the pain so why should they spend the money?BTW, this isn't just for IT.
This is any organisation, government or private.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128330</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1266086940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Google would provide the service free of charge to be able to say "We host Yale's email". Comes out of the market budget.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google would provide the service free of charge to be able to say " We host Yale 's email " .
Comes out of the market budget .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google would provide the service free of charge to be able to say "We host Yale's email".
Comes out of the market budget.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128354</id>
	<title>of course it makes sense</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266087120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is choice (users can already forward mail to Gmail; it doesn't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server)."</p></div><p>the difference is that they won't have to manage / maintain campus mail servers. they won't have to field support calls related to email problems.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is choice ( users can already forward mail to Gmail ; it does n't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server ) .
" the difference is that they wo n't have to manage / maintain campus mail servers .
they wo n't have to field support calls related to email problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is choice (users can already forward mail to Gmail; it doesn't make sense to force that option and not have a backup or opt-out mail server).
"the difference is that they won't have to manage / maintain campus mail servers.
they won't have to field support calls related to email problems.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</id>
	<title>Having gone there...</title>
	<author>langelgjm</author>
	<datestamp>1266069420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface. I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.</p><p>My current university also outsources most of their student e-mail services to Google... again, I almost always access it through IMAP. The main downside I've run into is that the university version of Gmail doesn't have access to Labs features that you get with regular Gmail. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a grad student there , and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface .
I practically never used it , since I 've always set up IMAP.My current university also outsources most of their student e-mail services to Google... again , I almost always access it through IMAP .
The main downside I 've run into is that the university version of Gmail does n't have access to Labs features that you get with regular Gmail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.
I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.My current university also outsources most of their student e-mail services to Google... again, I almost always access it through IMAP.
The main downside I've run into is that the university version of Gmail doesn't have access to Labs features that you get with regular Gmail. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126996</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266077160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The basic service is free, but Google makes money with the add-on services they offer to the colleges.  We pay a per-user fee for Google Postini (back-ups, security, compliance).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The basic service is free , but Google makes money with the add-on services they offer to the colleges .
We pay a per-user fee for Google Postini ( back-ups , security , compliance ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The basic service is free, but Google makes money with the add-on services they offer to the colleges.
We pay a per-user fee for Google Postini (back-ups, security, compliance).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128204</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1266086040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with most of what you're saying, but this stuck out for me:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data, they'll have a minor public relations black eye and move on. You'll be out a bunch of valuable data. You can't fire anyone,
you can't take tangible measures to make sure it doesn't happen again (or that it doesn't happen in the first place), etc.</p></div><p>First, I'd say that they have more than a "minor" public relations black eye.  If they get caught losing significant amounts of data or invading privacy in a way that seems "evil", it's a nightmare for Google.  Google's business depends on their reputation.
</p><p>Second and more importantly, I've heard people complain about hosting business email on Gmail before on similar grounds, i.e. "if something goes wrong, you can't fire anyone."  I think this kind of misses the point.  Besides the fact that you can fire Google by finding a new host or taking it internally, having someone to fire shouldn't be the highest priority.  CYA measures are good and all, but I don't want someone to blame when my mail goes down; I want my mail service to never go down.  I'd be more likely to fire someone for sacrificing quality to cover his own ass than I would for someone who made an honest mistake.
</p><p>On the other hand, if your email security is important to you, then I feel like you have to host it yourself.  People should understand that whoever is hosting your email can read your email.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally, now THAT's something I could get behind.</p></div><p>Agreed.  I'd love to be able to buy a server that gave me a full Google stack of Gmail, Google Talk, Google Apps, etc.  I like Gmail, but with security concerns, I can't justify putting my business email on an outside host.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with most of what you 're saying , but this stuck out for me : They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data , they 'll have a minor public relations black eye and move on .
You 'll be out a bunch of valuable data .
You ca n't fire anyone , you ca n't take tangible measures to make sure it does n't happen again ( or that it does n't happen in the first place ) , etc.First , I 'd say that they have more than a " minor " public relations black eye .
If they get caught losing significant amounts of data or invading privacy in a way that seems " evil " , it 's a nightmare for Google .
Google 's business depends on their reputation .
Second and more importantly , I 've heard people complain about hosting business email on Gmail before on similar grounds , i.e .
" if something goes wrong , you ca n't fire anyone .
" I think this kind of misses the point .
Besides the fact that you can fire Google by finding a new host or taking it internally , having someone to fire should n't be the highest priority .
CYA measures are good and all , but I do n't want someone to blame when my mail goes down ; I want my mail service to never go down .
I 'd be more likely to fire someone for sacrificing quality to cover his own ass than I would for someone who made an honest mistake .
On the other hand , if your email security is important to you , then I feel like you have to host it yourself .
People should understand that whoever is hosting your email can read your email.If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally , now THAT 's something I could get behind.Agreed .
I 'd love to be able to buy a server that gave me a full Google stack of Gmail , Google Talk , Google Apps , etc .
I like Gmail , but with security concerns , I ca n't justify putting my business email on an outside host .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with most of what you're saying, but this stuck out for me:They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data, they'll have a minor public relations black eye and move on.
You'll be out a bunch of valuable data.
You can't fire anyone,
you can't take tangible measures to make sure it doesn't happen again (or that it doesn't happen in the first place), etc.First, I'd say that they have more than a "minor" public relations black eye.
If they get caught losing significant amounts of data or invading privacy in a way that seems "evil", it's a nightmare for Google.
Google's business depends on their reputation.
Second and more importantly, I've heard people complain about hosting business email on Gmail before on similar grounds, i.e.
"if something goes wrong, you can't fire anyone.
"  I think this kind of misses the point.
Besides the fact that you can fire Google by finding a new host or taking it internally, having someone to fire shouldn't be the highest priority.
CYA measures are good and all, but I don't want someone to blame when my mail goes down; I want my mail service to never go down.
I'd be more likely to fire someone for sacrificing quality to cover his own ass than I would for someone who made an honest mistake.
On the other hand, if your email security is important to you, then I feel like you have to host it yourself.
People should understand that whoever is hosting your email can read your email.If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally, now THAT's something I could get behind.Agreed.
I'd love to be able to buy a server that gave me a full Google stack of Gmail, Google Talk, Google Apps, etc.
I like Gmail, but with security concerns, I can't justify putting my business email on an outside host.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</id>
	<title>University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>gravos</author>
	<datestamp>1266069720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>God, I wish my university would do this. We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments. Sure, you can forward it all to gmail (and who doesn't), but don't forget to delete your mail off the university's shitty server once a week or you'll get everything bounced!</htmltext>
<tokenext>God , I wish my university would do this .
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments .
Sure , you can forward it all to gmail ( and who does n't ) , but do n't forget to delete your mail off the university 's shitty server once a week or you 'll get everything bounced !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God, I wish my university would do this.
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.
Sure, you can forward it all to gmail (and who doesn't), but don't forget to delete your mail off the university's shitty server once a week or you'll get everything bounced!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129448</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266052440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think you can install a (reliable) 12TB storage array for $10k, you probably aren't an IT manager with a background in managed storage.</p><p>An entry level IBM DS4700 or EMC Clariion with 12TB of storage will cost you closer to ten times that much.</p><p>Sure, you could shove a bunch of 2TB SATA drives in a cheap whitebox case and share it out via iSCSI using OpenFiler.   That's great for your home lab or small workgroup that is tolerant of downtime.</p><p>However, the reason that external storage arrays are so expensive is that they contain enterprise features like redundant power supplies, multiple fibre channel connections, dual storage processors, etc.  You can literally perform rolling firmware updates by updating the storage controllers one at a time, so the entire array stays up during updates.  Ditto for replacing fibre adapters, power supplies, etc.  You won't be doing that for $10k.</p><p>Yeah, SAN hardware is expensive, but the RAS (Reliability, Availability, Servicability) just doesn't exist on the whitebox $10k solutions.</p><p>Performance is going to suck flaming hog balls on your cheap whitebox solution that is limited to the speed of your single SATA backplane or single gigabit ethernet adapter.</p><p>Sorry pal, but if you think at $10k 12TB storage array is the right solution for your student body, then I'm glad I don't go to your university.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think you can install a ( reliable ) 12TB storage array for $ 10k , you probably are n't an IT manager with a background in managed storage.An entry level IBM DS4700 or EMC Clariion with 12TB of storage will cost you closer to ten times that much.Sure , you could shove a bunch of 2TB SATA drives in a cheap whitebox case and share it out via iSCSI using OpenFiler .
That 's great for your home lab or small workgroup that is tolerant of downtime.However , the reason that external storage arrays are so expensive is that they contain enterprise features like redundant power supplies , multiple fibre channel connections , dual storage processors , etc .
You can literally perform rolling firmware updates by updating the storage controllers one at a time , so the entire array stays up during updates .
Ditto for replacing fibre adapters , power supplies , etc .
You wo n't be doing that for $ 10k.Yeah , SAN hardware is expensive , but the RAS ( Reliability , Availability , Servicability ) just does n't exist on the whitebox $ 10k solutions.Performance is going to suck flaming hog balls on your cheap whitebox solution that is limited to the speed of your single SATA backplane or single gigabit ethernet adapter.Sorry pal , but if you think at $ 10k 12TB storage array is the right solution for your student body , then I 'm glad I do n't go to your university .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think you can install a (reliable) 12TB storage array for $10k, you probably aren't an IT manager with a background in managed storage.An entry level IBM DS4700 or EMC Clariion with 12TB of storage will cost you closer to ten times that much.Sure, you could shove a bunch of 2TB SATA drives in a cheap whitebox case and share it out via iSCSI using OpenFiler.
That's great for your home lab or small workgroup that is tolerant of downtime.However, the reason that external storage arrays are so expensive is that they contain enterprise features like redundant power supplies, multiple fibre channel connections, dual storage processors, etc.
You can literally perform rolling firmware updates by updating the storage controllers one at a time, so the entire array stays up during updates.
Ditto for replacing fibre adapters, power supplies, etc.
You won't be doing that for $10k.Yeah, SAN hardware is expensive, but the RAS (Reliability, Availability, Servicability) just doesn't exist on the whitebox $10k solutions.Performance is going to suck flaming hog balls on your cheap whitebox solution that is limited to the speed of your single SATA backplane or single gigabit ethernet adapter.Sorry pal, but if you think at $10k 12TB storage array is the right solution for your student body, then I'm glad I don't go to your university.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127238</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1266079140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What client(s) have you been using to access gmail via IMAP?
<br>
I use Mail.app on Snow Leopard and have not seen the problems you're talking about.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What client ( s ) have you been using to access gmail via IMAP ?
I use Mail.app on Snow Leopard and have not seen the problems you 're talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What client(s) have you been using to access gmail via IMAP?
I use Mail.app on Snow Leopard and have not seen the problems you're talking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128274</id>
	<title>A collage is like</title>
	<author>Stan92057</author>
	<datestamp>1266086520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A collage is like any other business,when a company makes a choice based on money there nothing you can do except look for another job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A collage is like any other business,when a company makes a choice based on money there nothing you can do except look for another job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A collage is like any other business,when a company makes a choice based on money there nothing you can do except look for another job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128802</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>kgo</author>
	<datestamp>1266090420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pine works great with IMAP:

<a href="https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~csadmin/wiki/index.php/Setting\_up\_Pine\_(Alpine)\_for\_IMAP\_Gmail" title="virginia.edu" rel="nofollow">https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~csadmin/wiki/index.php/Setting\_up\_Pine\_(Alpine)\_for\_IMAP\_Gmail</a> [virginia.edu]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pine works great with IMAP : https : //www.cs.virginia.edu/ ~ csadmin/wiki/index.php/Setting \ _up \ _Pine \ _ ( Alpine ) \ _for \ _IMAP \ _Gmail [ virginia.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pine works great with IMAP:

https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~csadmin/wiki/index.php/Setting\_up\_Pine\_(Alpine)\_for\_IMAP\_Gmail [virginia.edu]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127728</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266082560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our University recently migrated (almost all) student email to Google. There were a few exceptions with students working on ITAR projects.</p><p>The biggest complaints we get now are from departments saying their mass emailings to their students are being caught by Google's spam filters.  In the past we could look at our own spam filter logs and tell the departments what to do so their mail wouldn't be caught by the filters.  Since Google is a black box, all we can do is open a ticket with Google and hope they'll answer us.  Short of whitelisting outbound mail servers (not going to happen) there's not much we can do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our University recently migrated ( almost all ) student email to Google .
There were a few exceptions with students working on ITAR projects.The biggest complaints we get now are from departments saying their mass emailings to their students are being caught by Google 's spam filters .
In the past we could look at our own spam filter logs and tell the departments what to do so their mail would n't be caught by the filters .
Since Google is a black box , all we can do is open a ticket with Google and hope they 'll answer us .
Short of whitelisting outbound mail servers ( not going to happen ) there 's not much we can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our University recently migrated (almost all) student email to Google.
There were a few exceptions with students working on ITAR projects.The biggest complaints we get now are from departments saying their mass emailings to their students are being caught by Google's spam filters.
In the past we could look at our own spam filter logs and tell the departments what to do so their mail wouldn't be caught by the filters.
Since Google is a black box, all we can do is open a ticket with Google and hope they'll answer us.
Short of whitelisting outbound mail servers (not going to happen) there's not much we can do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130858</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>F.Ultra</author>
	<datestamp>1266063840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Heard of PGP?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Heard of PGP ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heard of PGP?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130224</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I thought I'd point out something that most students are unaware of: <em>When you sign up for your own @gmail.com account, you give up ownership of your email.</em> It's in the use agreement.</p></div><p>O'Rly ?</p><p>From the terms of service, section 9:<br>9.4    Other than the limited license set forth in Section 11, Google acknowledges and agrees that it obtains no right, title or interest from you (or your licensors) under these Terms in or to any Content that you submit, post, transmit or display on, or through, the Services, including any intellectual property rights which subsist in that Content (whether those rights happen to be registered or not, and wherever in the world those rights may exist). Unless you have agreed otherwise in writing with Google, you agree that you are responsible for protecting and enforcing those rights and that Google has no obligation to do so on your behalf.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought I 'd point out something that most students are unaware of : When you sign up for your own @ gmail.com account , you give up ownership of your email .
It 's in the use agreement.O'Rly ? From the terms of service , section 9 : 9.4 Other than the limited license set forth in Section 11 , Google acknowledges and agrees that it obtains no right , title or interest from you ( or your licensors ) under these Terms in or to any Content that you submit , post , transmit or display on , or through , the Services , including any intellectual property rights which subsist in that Content ( whether those rights happen to be registered or not , and wherever in the world those rights may exist ) .
Unless you have agreed otherwise in writing with Google , you agree that you are responsible for protecting and enforcing those rights and that Google has no obligation to do so on your behalf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought I'd point out something that most students are unaware of: When you sign up for your own @gmail.com account, you give up ownership of your email.
It's in the use agreement.O'Rly ?From the terms of service, section 9:9.4    Other than the limited license set forth in Section 11, Google acknowledges and agrees that it obtains no right, title or interest from you (or your licensors) under these Terms in or to any Content that you submit, post, transmit or display on, or through, the Services, including any intellectual property rights which subsist in that Content (whether those rights happen to be registered or not, and wherever in the world those rights may exist).
Unless you have agreed otherwise in writing with Google, you agree that you are responsible for protecting and enforcing those rights and that Google has no obligation to do so on your behalf.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126728</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>allknowingfrog</author>
	<datestamp>1266074400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My college actually switched to Gmail recently. The only real problem I've had is that Google confuses my college Gmail calendar with my regular Gmail account. I still haven't figured out how that's even possible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My college actually switched to Gmail recently .
The only real problem I 've had is that Google confuses my college Gmail calendar with my regular Gmail account .
I still have n't figured out how that 's even possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My college actually switched to Gmail recently.
The only real problem I've had is that Google confuses my college Gmail calendar with my regular Gmail account.
I still haven't figured out how that's even possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127484</id>
	<title>Re:Non-unique.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266080640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason most corporations don't consider it is because it's stupid.  There's just no other word for it.  It's beyond stupid.  And for the sake of saving trivial amounts of money.  Switching to this kind of service is beyond reckless and irresponsible and free doesn't make it any less stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason most corporations do n't consider it is because it 's stupid .
There 's just no other word for it .
It 's beyond stupid .
And for the sake of saving trivial amounts of money .
Switching to this kind of service is beyond reckless and irresponsible and free does n't make it any less stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason most corporations don't consider it is because it's stupid.
There's just no other word for it.
It's beyond stupid.
And for the sake of saving trivial amounts of money.
Switching to this kind of service is beyond reckless and irresponsible and free doesn't make it any less stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</id>
	<title>reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266073440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm an IT manager at a major University.</p><p>okay... so the thing is, everyone loves gmail.  They love it because it's a pretty, intuitive interface, they have good spam filtering, it's free, plenty of storage, hugely distributed servers for good and reliable performance, nifty features, lots of happy fun time.  Why *wouldn't* you switch your whole IT mail system to gmail?</p><p>You wouldn't do it because google's entire business model is based on profiting from the content of your data.  Mining that<br>data for targeted advertising (yes, even if they're not displaying ads in your gmail, they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisers), gleaning useful tidbits about your behavior and buying practices, etc., etc.  They *own*<br>the content of your email.</p><p>If you are working on potentially profitable research, you'd be insane to collaborate on it through google.</p><p>If you are handling privacy-sensitive data (such as student records), you'd be insane to communicate that data<br>through google.</p><p>If you are handling any other sensitive information (like passwords to financial accounts, potentially embarrassing<br>internal memos, career- or relationship- destroying office gossip), you'd be insane to communicate it through google.</p><p>GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL.  When you sign up with google, you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.</p><p>They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data, they'll have<br>a minor public relations black eye and move on.  You'll be out a bunch of valuable data.  You can't fire anyone,<br>you can't take tangible measures to make sure it doesn't happen again (or that it doesn't happen in the first place), etc.</p><p>There are lots of reasons NOT to take your IT mail to google.  It's mostly about data security, privacy, and accountability.<br>You are surrendering all of that when you go to google.  If those things aren't important to you, then by all means, switch to google.</p><p>And I'm not saying this just because I'm not anxious to have my job outsourced.  I'm saying it because after 20 years of<br>being responsible for this sort of data, giving it to google is one of the worst things you could do with it.  It's not all about "Easy interface, low cost", but unfortunately anyone who ISN'T responsible for managing the data only sees those two things.</p><p>Oh, yeah... and universities don't generally prioritize storage/systems/personnel for student email.  TFA talks about saving 12 TB of space, which these days I could install new (and reliably) for well under $10k, if someone was willing to spend the money on it.</p><p>If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally, now THAT's something I could get behind.   THAT is what<br>Universities should be trying to get google to provide.  Let them provide the interface, and let your local guys set it up and manage the data, keep the storage servers local.</p><p>YMMV, especially if your local IT guys just suck.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an IT manager at a major University.okay... so the thing is , everyone loves gmail .
They love it because it 's a pretty , intuitive interface , they have good spam filtering , it 's free , plenty of storage , hugely distributed servers for good and reliable performance , nifty features , lots of happy fun time .
Why * would n't * you switch your whole IT mail system to gmail ? You would n't do it because google 's entire business model is based on profiting from the content of your data .
Mining thatdata for targeted advertising ( yes , even if they 're not displaying ads in your gmail , they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisers ) , gleaning useful tidbits about your behavior and buying practices , etc. , etc .
They * own * the content of your email.If you are working on potentially profitable research , you 'd be insane to collaborate on it through google.If you are handling privacy-sensitive data ( such as student records ) , you 'd be insane to communicate that datathrough google.If you are handling any other sensitive information ( like passwords to financial accounts , potentially embarrassinginternal memos , career- or relationship- destroying office gossip ) , you 'd be insane to communicate it through google.GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL .
When you sign up with google , you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data , they 'll havea minor public relations black eye and move on .
You 'll be out a bunch of valuable data .
You ca n't fire anyone,you ca n't take tangible measures to make sure it does n't happen again ( or that it does n't happen in the first place ) , etc.There are lots of reasons NOT to take your IT mail to google .
It 's mostly about data security , privacy , and accountability.You are surrendering all of that when you go to google .
If those things are n't important to you , then by all means , switch to google.And I 'm not saying this just because I 'm not anxious to have my job outsourced .
I 'm saying it because after 20 years ofbeing responsible for this sort of data , giving it to google is one of the worst things you could do with it .
It 's not all about " Easy interface , low cost " , but unfortunately anyone who IS N'T responsible for managing the data only sees those two things.Oh , yeah... and universities do n't generally prioritize storage/systems/personnel for student email .
TFA talks about saving 12 TB of space , which these days I could install new ( and reliably ) for well under $ 10k , if someone was willing to spend the money on it.If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally , now THAT 's something I could get behind .
THAT is whatUniversities should be trying to get google to provide .
Let them provide the interface , and let your local guys set it up and manage the data , keep the storage servers local.YMMV , especially if your local IT guys just suck .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an IT manager at a major University.okay... so the thing is, everyone loves gmail.
They love it because it's a pretty, intuitive interface, they have good spam filtering, it's free, plenty of storage, hugely distributed servers for good and reliable performance, nifty features, lots of happy fun time.
Why *wouldn't* you switch your whole IT mail system to gmail?You wouldn't do it because google's entire business model is based on profiting from the content of your data.
Mining thatdata for targeted advertising (yes, even if they're not displaying ads in your gmail, they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisers), gleaning useful tidbits about your behavior and buying practices, etc., etc.
They *own*the content of your email.If you are working on potentially profitable research, you'd be insane to collaborate on it through google.If you are handling privacy-sensitive data (such as student records), you'd be insane to communicate that datathrough google.If you are handling any other sensitive information (like passwords to financial accounts, potentially embarrassinginternal memos, career- or relationship- destroying office gossip), you'd be insane to communicate it through google.GOOGLE READS YOUR EMAIL.
When you sign up with google, you AGREE TO LET THEM DO IT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.They are providing this service for free -- if something goes wrong and they lose a bunch of your data, they'll havea minor public relations black eye and move on.
You'll be out a bunch of valuable data.
You can't fire anyone,you can't take tangible measures to make sure it doesn't happen again (or that it doesn't happen in the first place), etc.There are lots of reasons NOT to take your IT mail to google.
It's mostly about data security, privacy, and accountability.You are surrendering all of that when you go to google.
If those things aren't important to you, then by all means, switch to google.And I'm not saying this just because I'm not anxious to have my job outsourced.
I'm saying it because after 20 years ofbeing responsible for this sort of data, giving it to google is one of the worst things you could do with it.
It's not all about "Easy interface, low cost", but unfortunately anyone who ISN'T responsible for managing the data only sees those two things.Oh, yeah... and universities don't generally prioritize storage/systems/personnel for student email.
TFA talks about saving 12 TB of space, which these days I could install new (and reliably) for well under $10k, if someone was willing to spend the money on it.If google provided free software to run a webmail system locally, now THAT's something I could get behind.
THAT is whatUniversities should be trying to get google to provide.
Let them provide the interface, and let your local guys set it up and manage the data, keep the storage servers local.YMMV, especially if your local IT guys just suck.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127412</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>hodet</author>
	<datestamp>1266080340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You make some good observations.  Unfortunately it is laced with anger and sarcasm which does more to hinder your point then make it.  For your average tech that is not a big deal, but as an "IT manager at a major University" you should know that to make your point effectively it is better not to talk to people like they have no clue.  Pro tip:  chill out a little and stick to the facts.  Make a recommendation based on a sensible analysis of the issue.  This will go further then using CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT and telling people that if they don't do it the way you believe to be correct it may be because "your local IT guys just suck."</htmltext>
<tokenext>You make some good observations .
Unfortunately it is laced with anger and sarcasm which does more to hinder your point then make it .
For your average tech that is not a big deal , but as an " IT manager at a major University " you should know that to make your point effectively it is better not to talk to people like they have no clue .
Pro tip : chill out a little and stick to the facts .
Make a recommendation based on a sensible analysis of the issue .
This will go further then using CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT and telling people that if they do n't do it the way you believe to be correct it may be because " your local IT guys just suck .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You make some good observations.
Unfortunately it is laced with anger and sarcasm which does more to hinder your point then make it.
For your average tech that is not a big deal, but as an "IT manager at a major University" you should know that to make your point effectively it is better not to talk to people like they have no clue.
Pro tip:  chill out a little and stick to the facts.
Make a recommendation based on a sensible analysis of the issue.
This will go further then using CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT and telling people that if they don't do it the way you believe to be correct it may be because "your local IT guys just suck.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128460</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266087900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>maybe they should form a committee to discuss the forming of a committee to discuss how to go about deciding whether to use gmail? that seems to be the way these things work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>maybe they should form a committee to discuss the forming of a committee to discuss how to go about deciding whether to use gmail ?
that seems to be the way these things work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maybe they should form a committee to discuss the forming of a committee to discuss how to go about deciding whether to use gmail?
that seems to be the way these things work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126492</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like it's more of a problem with your professors.  PhDs are famous for being very, very intelligent about a very specific topic, but oblivious to common sense practices outside of their field of study.  How hard would it be for them to upload the attachments to the university's servers, and provide links on their class web page?  What kind of sadist sends 10MB attachments?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like it 's more of a problem with your professors .
PhDs are famous for being very , very intelligent about a very specific topic , but oblivious to common sense practices outside of their field of study .
How hard would it be for them to upload the attachments to the university 's servers , and provide links on their class web page ?
What kind of sadist sends 10MB attachments ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like it's more of a problem with your professors.
PhDs are famous for being very, very intelligent about a very specific topic, but oblivious to common sense practices outside of their field of study.
How hard would it be for them to upload the attachments to the university's servers, and provide links on their class web page?
What kind of sadist sends 10MB attachments?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126838</id>
	<title>We did this</title>
	<author>Jim Hall</author>
	<datestamp>1266075660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for a higher-ed institution that's in the Big Ten. We recently provided GMail on campus, to all faculty, students, and staff. It was a remarkably easy transition for us to make. Here's how we did it:</p><p>Opt-in.</p><p>Really, that was it. We said, "Here's the GMail system that we arranged through Google and the University. If you want to move to GMail, please do - here's a link to make that happen. If you prefer to remain on the existing University email system, that's fine, we aren't taking that away and we're still committed in supporting the University system."</p><p>It's worked out well. As of last week, our overall adoption rate is 26\% across faculty and staff (I don't have the student numbers) with several colleges and departments already at 100\%. Overall, students opted in very quickly. Our outliers have been staff and faculty - this is likely because moving to GMail is a change, and change can be scary. (Note you can use the web interface, or access GMail using POP/IMAP.)</p><p>It's not entirely opt-in, though. Incoming students are not given an option - they'll be issued a University GMail account by default. The goal is that over the next 4 years, we'll gradually have all student accounts move to GMail automatically. (But as I said, students tended to opt-in very quickly.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a higher-ed institution that 's in the Big Ten .
We recently provided GMail on campus , to all faculty , students , and staff .
It was a remarkably easy transition for us to make .
Here 's how we did it : Opt-in.Really , that was it .
We said , " Here 's the GMail system that we arranged through Google and the University .
If you want to move to GMail , please do - here 's a link to make that happen .
If you prefer to remain on the existing University email system , that 's fine , we are n't taking that away and we 're still committed in supporting the University system .
" It 's worked out well .
As of last week , our overall adoption rate is 26 \ % across faculty and staff ( I do n't have the student numbers ) with several colleges and departments already at 100 \ % .
Overall , students opted in very quickly .
Our outliers have been staff and faculty - this is likely because moving to GMail is a change , and change can be scary .
( Note you can use the web interface , or access GMail using POP/IMAP .
) It 's not entirely opt-in , though .
Incoming students are not given an option - they 'll be issued a University GMail account by default .
The goal is that over the next 4 years , we 'll gradually have all student accounts move to GMail automatically .
( But as I said , students tended to opt-in very quickly .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a higher-ed institution that's in the Big Ten.
We recently provided GMail on campus, to all faculty, students, and staff.
It was a remarkably easy transition for us to make.
Here's how we did it:Opt-in.Really, that was it.
We said, "Here's the GMail system that we arranged through Google and the University.
If you want to move to GMail, please do - here's a link to make that happen.
If you prefer to remain on the existing University email system, that's fine, we aren't taking that away and we're still committed in supporting the University system.
"It's worked out well.
As of last week, our overall adoption rate is 26\% across faculty and staff (I don't have the student numbers) with several colleges and departments already at 100\%.
Overall, students opted in very quickly.
Our outliers have been staff and faculty - this is likely because moving to GMail is a change, and change can be scary.
(Note you can use the web interface, or access GMail using POP/IMAP.
)It's not entirely opt-in, though.
Incoming students are not given an option - they'll be issued a University GMail account by default.
The goal is that over the next 4 years, we'll gradually have all student accounts move to GMail automatically.
(But as I said, students tended to opt-in very quickly.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127004</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1266077220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, \_that\_ explains a lot. No one trained by using Horde as their primary mail server should be considered trained to run a competent, large scale mail service. It was a poorly integrated mass of difficult to install demoware 5 years ago, and I've seen and heard no evidence to indicate that it has improved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , \ _that \ _ explains a lot .
No one trained by using Horde as their primary mail server should be considered trained to run a competent , large scale mail service .
It was a poorly integrated mass of difficult to install demoware 5 years ago , and I 've seen and heard no evidence to indicate that it has improved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, \_that\_ explains a lot.
No one trained by using Horde as their primary mail server should be considered trained to run a competent, large scale mail service.
It was a poorly integrated mass of difficult to install demoware 5 years ago, and I've seen and heard no evidence to indicate that it has improved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126904</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>tom1974</author>
	<datestamp>1266076080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can export almost everything from <a href="http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/06/export-data-from-googles-services.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Google services</a> [blogspot.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can export almost everything from Google services [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can export almost everything from Google services [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126304</id>
	<title>Re:chillaxinate, broheims</title>
	<author>pizzap</author>
	<datestamp>1266070320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, outsourcing your infrastructure to a private company is always "chillaxing". It keeps the costs down, users don't pick up on service quality and in-house experience and development is unwanted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , outsourcing your infrastructure to a private company is always " chillaxing " .
It keeps the costs down , users do n't pick up on service quality and in-house experience and development is unwanted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, outsourcing your infrastructure to a private company is always "chillaxing".
It keeps the costs down, users don't pick up on service quality and in-house experience and development is unwanted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128092</id>
	<title>We just switched this weekend</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266085320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We looked into switching from in house Exchange to Google for about 3 months and ultimately scrapped it due the huge number of unsupported features we would be left with.  We went with a hosted Exchange solution instead, for about the same overall cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We looked into switching from in house Exchange to Google for about 3 months and ultimately scrapped it due the huge number of unsupported features we would be left with .
We went with a hosted Exchange solution instead , for about the same overall cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We looked into switching from in house Exchange to Google for about 3 months and ultimately scrapped it due the huge number of unsupported features we would be left with.
We went with a hosted Exchange solution instead, for about the same overall cost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127298</id>
	<title>Re:short sighted</title>
	<author>Wovel</author>
	<datestamp>1266079500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because Google and yale will have a binding contract that well essentially eliminates everyone of your points.  Many, many companies who are not using Gmail still outsource their email servers to third party providers..I am not sure anyone who is posting here knows anything at all about how IT works in 2010.  All of your points are controlled by underpinning contracts and SLAs which are far more binding and enforceable than employment contracts with the University IT staff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because Google and yale will have a binding contract that well essentially eliminates everyone of your points .
Many , many companies who are not using Gmail still outsource their email servers to third party providers..I am not sure anyone who is posting here knows anything at all about how IT works in 2010 .
All of your points are controlled by underpinning contracts and SLAs which are far more binding and enforceable than employment contracts with the University IT staff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because Google and yale will have a binding contract that well essentially eliminates everyone of your points.
Many, many companies who are not using Gmail still outsource their email servers to third party providers..I am not sure anyone who is posting here knows anything at all about how IT works in 2010.
All of your points are controlled by underpinning contracts and SLAs which are far more binding and enforceable than employment contracts with the University IT staff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127786</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>theshowmecanuck</author>
	<datestamp>1266082980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For anyone who prefers their email format in text as opposed to html or rich text, it still isn't bad.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) But I think I'll stick with a GUI.</p><p> What I don't understand is how the article poster could possibly make the statement that Google Mail is good for large corporations. If I were a large (or even small) corporation, I wouldn't want any of my email messages, many of which likely containing proprietary information, being stored on another corporations mail servers. That's not only giving you a fair chance to shoot yourself in the foot, it is like asking for a marksman to shoot you in the foot for you.</p><p>RIM's Blackberry is so popular because RIM can't tell what you are emailing. It doesn't store your email. Your company still uses its own mail servers, and anything that goes through RIM's servers is not staged, and is encrypted so only your company knows what your business is. Fat chance data mining Google will encrypt mail so that they can't tell what it says.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For anyone who prefers their email format in text as opposed to html or rich text , it still is n't bad .
: ) But I think I 'll stick with a GUI .
What I do n't understand is how the article poster could possibly make the statement that Google Mail is good for large corporations .
If I were a large ( or even small ) corporation , I would n't want any of my email messages , many of which likely containing proprietary information , being stored on another corporations mail servers .
That 's not only giving you a fair chance to shoot yourself in the foot , it is like asking for a marksman to shoot you in the foot for you.RIM 's Blackberry is so popular because RIM ca n't tell what you are emailing .
It does n't store your email .
Your company still uses its own mail servers , and anything that goes through RIM 's servers is not staged , and is encrypted so only your company knows what your business is .
Fat chance data mining Google will encrypt mail so that they ca n't tell what it says .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For anyone who prefers their email format in text as opposed to html or rich text, it still isn't bad.
:) But I think I'll stick with a GUI.
What I don't understand is how the article poster could possibly make the statement that Google Mail is good for large corporations.
If I were a large (or even small) corporation, I wouldn't want any of my email messages, many of which likely containing proprietary information, being stored on another corporations mail servers.
That's not only giving you a fair chance to shoot yourself in the foot, it is like asking for a marksman to shoot you in the foot for you.RIM's Blackberry is so popular because RIM can't tell what you are emailing.
It doesn't store your email.
Your company still uses its own mail servers, and anything that goes through RIM's servers is not staged, and is encrypted so only your company knows what your business is.
Fat chance data mining Google will encrypt mail so that they can't tell what it says.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127124</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266078300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We looked in to outsourcing mail to gmail. The privacy concerns exist at your mail gateway, ISP's and mail filtering services. The principal, difference is that internal  internal mails are now also in the open.If you subscribe to postini (google mail filtering) then you have already made the jump. Some hight profile English Investment banks are already on postini.</p><p>Interestingly, as many large companies have a complicated email scape there are almost certainly cases where mail pops out from one subcompany to another not over encrypted lines. Again, privacy issues on internal mail. The biggest problems you'll face with gmail are the migration. If you don't go with a big bang approach and you have exchange then it gets messy. Calendar sync issues, meeting room overbookings, gal sync latency, mailbox creation processes, large attachments were all problems experienced.</p><p>Besides this most users prefer Outlook anyway, so you have to run additional services to provide IMAP to them. Overall the cost per mailbox for 25gb could NOT be competed with by rackmounts running exchange (+ admin supports costs, cooling\power, etc).</p><p>I didn't mind much but for 'all day long' email, gmail gui is not ideal (for me).</p><p>Docs was filed with bugs when we investigated (April 2009) and was not a viable alternative to Sharepoint.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We looked in to outsourcing mail to gmail .
The privacy concerns exist at your mail gateway , ISP 's and mail filtering services .
The principal , difference is that internal internal mails are now also in the open.If you subscribe to postini ( google mail filtering ) then you have already made the jump .
Some hight profile English Investment banks are already on postini.Interestingly , as many large companies have a complicated email scape there are almost certainly cases where mail pops out from one subcompany to another not over encrypted lines .
Again , privacy issues on internal mail .
The biggest problems you 'll face with gmail are the migration .
If you do n't go with a big bang approach and you have exchange then it gets messy .
Calendar sync issues , meeting room overbookings , gal sync latency , mailbox creation processes , large attachments were all problems experienced.Besides this most users prefer Outlook anyway , so you have to run additional services to provide IMAP to them .
Overall the cost per mailbox for 25gb could NOT be competed with by rackmounts running exchange ( + admin supports costs , cooling \ power , etc ) .I did n't mind much but for 'all day long ' email , gmail gui is not ideal ( for me ) .Docs was filed with bugs when we investigated ( April 2009 ) and was not a viable alternative to Sharepoint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We looked in to outsourcing mail to gmail.
The privacy concerns exist at your mail gateway, ISP's and mail filtering services.
The principal, difference is that internal  internal mails are now also in the open.If you subscribe to postini (google mail filtering) then you have already made the jump.
Some hight profile English Investment banks are already on postini.Interestingly, as many large companies have a complicated email scape there are almost certainly cases where mail pops out from one subcompany to another not over encrypted lines.
Again, privacy issues on internal mail.
The biggest problems you'll face with gmail are the migration.
If you don't go with a big bang approach and you have exchange then it gets messy.
Calendar sync issues, meeting room overbookings, gal sync latency, mailbox creation processes, large attachments were all problems experienced.Besides this most users prefer Outlook anyway, so you have to run additional services to provide IMAP to them.
Overall the cost per mailbox for 25gb could NOT be competed with by rackmounts running exchange (+ admin supports costs, cooling\power, etc).I didn't mind much but for 'all day long' email, gmail gui is not ideal (for me).Docs was filed with bugs when we investigated (April 2009) and was not a viable alternative to Sharepoint.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128048</id>
	<title>Re:short sighted</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266085080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gmail can take care of the email for your domain, so users can still have @yale.edu addresses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gmail can take care of the email for your domain , so users can still have @ yale.edu addresses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gmail can take care of the email for your domain, so users can still have @yale.edu addresses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31132292</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1266080580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a system analyst for a major community college network.  Most of what you say is not true.  Many of the privacy concerns have been ironed out with other schools, and if they aren't already reflected in Google's policies, schools can choose to negotiate additional things with Google (access to the bulk data, audits of account access, etc..).  And being a leader like this, if it ever did get out that Google was reading sensitive research data (or anything for that matter), it would destroy their reputation.  You'd have schools jumping ship left and right.</p><p>I'm not sure how large your school is, but we now have 600,000 accounts and rising.  Keeping up with spam, people trying to hack accounts to send spam from us, backup and storage space and duration, etc etc, while still manageable, isn't simple.  And lets face it, it is hard to give students cutting edge functionality when it isn't your primary business like it is for Google.</p><p>If we add up support contracts on storage arrays, the software and servers (mostly sun, sun java messaging), few staff for it, backup storage and media, etc.. it isn't a small amount.</p><p>And moving to an external email system like Google does not in any way prevent the more paranoid from either setting up their own email server, or encrypting their email, or any number of other options.  If a school decides to send class information, instructor correspondences, billing information, or other official business, it in no way forces someone to only use that one account for all aspects of their life, it would just be official school emails.</p><p>About the only concern that schools have that have researched this, is down time.  But looking at things objectively, Google's down time is pretty small, certainly not much more than our own internal down time.  We also have other messaging systems (chat, forums, etc..) so its not like the world would grind to a halt:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a system analyst for a major community college network .
Most of what you say is not true .
Many of the privacy concerns have been ironed out with other schools , and if they are n't already reflected in Google 's policies , schools can choose to negotiate additional things with Google ( access to the bulk data , audits of account access , etc.. ) .
And being a leader like this , if it ever did get out that Google was reading sensitive research data ( or anything for that matter ) , it would destroy their reputation .
You 'd have schools jumping ship left and right.I 'm not sure how large your school is , but we now have 600,000 accounts and rising .
Keeping up with spam , people trying to hack accounts to send spam from us , backup and storage space and duration , etc etc , while still manageable , is n't simple .
And lets face it , it is hard to give students cutting edge functionality when it is n't your primary business like it is for Google.If we add up support contracts on storage arrays , the software and servers ( mostly sun , sun java messaging ) , few staff for it , backup storage and media , etc.. it is n't a small amount.And moving to an external email system like Google does not in any way prevent the more paranoid from either setting up their own email server , or encrypting their email , or any number of other options .
If a school decides to send class information , instructor correspondences , billing information , or other official business , it in no way forces someone to only use that one account for all aspects of their life , it would just be official school emails.About the only concern that schools have that have researched this , is down time .
But looking at things objectively , Google 's down time is pretty small , certainly not much more than our own internal down time .
We also have other messaging systems ( chat , forums , etc.. ) so its not like the world would grind to a halt : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a system analyst for a major community college network.
Most of what you say is not true.
Many of the privacy concerns have been ironed out with other schools, and if they aren't already reflected in Google's policies, schools can choose to negotiate additional things with Google (access to the bulk data, audits of account access, etc..).
And being a leader like this, if it ever did get out that Google was reading sensitive research data (or anything for that matter), it would destroy their reputation.
You'd have schools jumping ship left and right.I'm not sure how large your school is, but we now have 600,000 accounts and rising.
Keeping up with spam, people trying to hack accounts to send spam from us, backup and storage space and duration, etc etc, while still manageable, isn't simple.
And lets face it, it is hard to give students cutting edge functionality when it isn't your primary business like it is for Google.If we add up support contracts on storage arrays, the software and servers (mostly sun, sun java messaging), few staff for it, backup storage and media, etc.. it isn't a small amount.And moving to an external email system like Google does not in any way prevent the more paranoid from either setting up their own email server, or encrypting their email, or any number of other options.
If a school decides to send class information, instructor correspondences, billing information, or other official business, it in no way forces someone to only use that one account for all aspects of their life, it would just be official school emails.About the only concern that schools have that have researched this, is down time.
But looking at things objectively, Google's down time is pretty small, certainly not much more than our own internal down time.
We also have other messaging systems (chat, forums, etc..) so its not like the world would grind to a halt:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126314</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>pizzap</author>
	<datestamp>1266070440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Horde is the main reason why no one likes university email systems and institutes switch to ms exchange and google/yahoo. Hordes 'new' ajax frontend looks better, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Horde is the main reason why no one likes university email systems and institutes switch to ms exchange and google/yahoo .
Hordes 'new ' ajax frontend looks better , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Horde is the main reason why no one likes university email systems and institutes switch to ms exchange and google/yahoo.
Hordes 'new' ajax frontend looks better, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31133030</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266178320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nice FUD.   Nice ad hominem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice FUD .
Nice ad hominem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice FUD.
Nice ad hominem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31138884</id>
	<title>Go check Zimbra</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266154440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why no one realized "Zimbra" ? Go check it out. Its already implemented in more than 500 US univs (which includes Stanford) and has an amazing framework for internal integration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why no one realized " Zimbra " ?
Go check it out .
Its already implemented in more than 500 US univs ( which includes Stanford ) and has an amazing framework for internal integration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why no one realized "Zimbra" ?
Go check it out.
Its already implemented in more than 500 US univs (which includes Stanford) and has an amazing framework for internal integration.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126418</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... and on "why offer it for free".</p><p>Google's reasons for offering Google Apps for Education as a free service are their own. But we can guess.</p><p>1: Many university students are going to become high fliers in business. Giving them warm-and-fuzzy feelings about Google Apps is building the long term market for Google Apps.</p><p>2: Education is a "good cause". Maybe someone in Google just likes the idea of helping good causes. Or more cynically, it's good PR.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... and on " why offer it for free " .Google 's reasons for offering Google Apps for Education as a free service are their own .
But we can guess.1 : Many university students are going to become high fliers in business .
Giving them warm-and-fuzzy feelings about Google Apps is building the long term market for Google Apps.2 : Education is a " good cause " .
Maybe someone in Google just likes the idea of helping good causes .
Or more cynically , it 's good PR .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and on "why offer it for free".Google's reasons for offering Google Apps for Education as a free service are their own.
But we can guess.1: Many university students are going to become high fliers in business.
Giving them warm-and-fuzzy feelings about Google Apps is building the long term market for Google Apps.2: Education is a "good cause".
Maybe someone in Google just likes the idea of helping good causes.
Or more cynically, it's good PR.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127224</id>
	<title>Why not?</title>
	<author>CyberMatt</author>
	<datestamp>1266079020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When one of the top public universities already switched?</p><p> <a href="http://www.itc.virginia.edu/email/accounts.html" title="virginia.edu" rel="nofollow">Email at UVa: Account Choices</a> [virginia.edu] </p><p>Account choices:</p><p>- Students: Microsoft Live and/or Gmail</p><p>- Alumni: Gmail</p><p>- Faculty/Staff/Special cases: Exchange and/or CMS (former mail system)</p><p>It's probably cheaper to outsource e-mail providers, but UVA still maintains control of the @virginia.edu domain and forwards e-mail to Live or G-mail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When one of the top public universities already switched ?
Email at UVa : Account Choices [ virginia.edu ] Account choices : - Students : Microsoft Live and/or Gmail- Alumni : Gmail- Faculty/Staff/Special cases : Exchange and/or CMS ( former mail system ) It 's probably cheaper to outsource e-mail providers , but UVA still maintains control of the @ virginia.edu domain and forwards e-mail to Live or G-mail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When one of the top public universities already switched?
Email at UVa: Account Choices [virginia.edu] Account choices:- Students: Microsoft Live and/or Gmail- Alumni: Gmail- Faculty/Staff/Special cases: Exchange and/or CMS (former mail system)It's probably cheaper to outsource e-mail providers, but UVA still maintains control of the @virginia.edu domain and forwards e-mail to Live or G-mail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126512</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to "gov"mail</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1266072540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You think Yale wouldn't give data off their own on-site servers to the NSA, if they came waving court orders?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You think Yale would n't give data off their own on-site servers to the NSA , if they came waving court orders ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think Yale wouldn't give data off their own on-site servers to the NSA, if they came waving court orders?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128046</id>
	<title>They travelled to 1984 from 1994</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1266085080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't really believe a prestigious university like Yale or any other university can't really fix things themselves. Really mysterious to begin with... OK; 40 MB is stupid because e-mail isn't used in its original intent anymore... Why not fix it instead of handing the entire thing to Google?</p><p>Yale is internationally known for their law school... That is the funniest part when you know gmail isn't really that "free" if you actually think about the rights you give to Google and your private mail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't really believe a prestigious university like Yale or any other university ca n't really fix things themselves .
Really mysterious to begin with... OK ; 40 MB is stupid because e-mail is n't used in its original intent anymore... Why not fix it instead of handing the entire thing to Google ? Yale is internationally known for their law school... That is the funniest part when you know gmail is n't really that " free " if you actually think about the rights you give to Google and your private mail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't really believe a prestigious university like Yale or any other university can't really fix things themselves.
Really mysterious to begin with... OK; 40 MB is stupid because e-mail isn't used in its original intent anymore... Why not fix it instead of handing the entire thing to Google?Yale is internationally known for their law school... That is the funniest part when you know gmail isn't really that "free" if you actually think about the rights you give to Google and your private mail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126400</id>
	<title>All your mail are belong to us... and the rest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The technical quality of the email service they provide is one thing, but the storage of so many people's emails by one company, with access to the content, is quite another.</p><p>The more that people use the same email service, the more that service will appear to be a target for the NSA and big business. Those organisations won't have to hack into the data; they will simply have to sign contracts, and Google will be glad of the money.</p><p>Say goodbye to anonymity. From now on everything you do will be logged, correlated and used to predict what you will do next - before you know it yourself.</p><p>Of course, if you are a cud chewing milch cow, you won't see a problem because you will enjoy the sensation you experience in the milking parlour as big business fondles your teets, but for the rest of us, it is a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The technical quality of the email service they provide is one thing , but the storage of so many people 's emails by one company , with access to the content , is quite another.The more that people use the same email service , the more that service will appear to be a target for the NSA and big business .
Those organisations wo n't have to hack into the data ; they will simply have to sign contracts , and Google will be glad of the money.Say goodbye to anonymity .
From now on everything you do will be logged , correlated and used to predict what you will do next - before you know it yourself.Of course , if you are a cud chewing milch cow , you wo n't see a problem because you will enjoy the sensation you experience in the milking parlour as big business fondles your teets , but for the rest of us , it is a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The technical quality of the email service they provide is one thing, but the storage of so many people's emails by one company, with access to the content, is quite another.The more that people use the same email service, the more that service will appear to be a target for the NSA and big business.
Those organisations won't have to hack into the data; they will simply have to sign contracts, and Google will be glad of the money.Say goodbye to anonymity.
From now on everything you do will be logged, correlated and used to predict what you will do next - before you know it yourself.Of course, if you are a cud chewing milch cow, you won't see a problem because you will enjoy the sensation you experience in the milking parlour as big business fondles your teets, but for the rest of us, it is a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126484</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Enforcer-99</author>
	<datestamp>1266072180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are wrong - the University version DOES have Labs - they just need to turn it on.  Google Apps for Education allows for centralized control of labs features.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are wrong - the University version DOES have Labs - they just need to turn it on .
Google Apps for Education allows for centralized control of labs features .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are wrong - the University version DOES have Labs - they just need to turn it on.
Google Apps for Education allows for centralized control of labs features.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127248</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>newdsfornerds</author>
	<datestamp>1266079200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The cool kids used Mutt. I still do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The cool kids used Mutt .
I still do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cool kids used Mutt.
I still do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126428</id>
	<title>A step forward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not the only university to do this. My university in Dublin (Trinity College) also switched to gmail and it was met with overwhelming support from students and staff alike. POP, IMAP or web interface that most were used to and that new users welcomed, reduced spam (95\% of college mail being spam and exchange filters not catching more than 50\% of it), higher level of storage, easier external access, bigger attachments. Overall it was an easy transition and a reduced workload for the syadmins. The only initial problem was different passwords for network access and email, which DOES make a difference for less technical students such as those in arts and letters faculties. Overall it was a step forward with a positive reception from staff, students and sysadmins. Good luck to Yale and let's give it 6 months or so, then poll each of those groups to see if they prefer the gmail way or the old way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not the only university to do this .
My university in Dublin ( Trinity College ) also switched to gmail and it was met with overwhelming support from students and staff alike .
POP , IMAP or web interface that most were used to and that new users welcomed , reduced spam ( 95 \ % of college mail being spam and exchange filters not catching more than 50 \ % of it ) , higher level of storage , easier external access , bigger attachments .
Overall it was an easy transition and a reduced workload for the syadmins .
The only initial problem was different passwords for network access and email , which DOES make a difference for less technical students such as those in arts and letters faculties .
Overall it was a step forward with a positive reception from staff , students and sysadmins .
Good luck to Yale and let 's give it 6 months or so , then poll each of those groups to see if they prefer the gmail way or the old way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not the only university to do this.
My university in Dublin (Trinity College) also switched to gmail and it was met with overwhelming support from students and staff alike.
POP, IMAP or web interface that most were used to and that new users welcomed, reduced spam (95\% of college mail being spam and exchange filters not catching more than 50\% of it), higher level of storage, easier external access, bigger attachments.
Overall it was an easy transition and a reduced workload for the syadmins.
The only initial problem was different passwords for network access and email, which DOES make a difference for less technical students such as those in arts and letters faculties.
Overall it was a step forward with a positive reception from staff, students and sysadmins.
Good luck to Yale and let's give it 6 months or so, then poll each of those groups to see if they prefer the gmail way or the old way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126348</id>
	<title>Up in arms? Really?</title>
	<author>ff1324</author>
	<datestamp>1266070620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a service. Just like the phone company, janitorial services, accounting, and insurance.</p><p>The students and faculty don't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks and work/study payments, and there's something they use every day. Sounds to me like this is a lesson to be learned for a bunch of college brats who can't adjust to change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a service .
Just like the phone company , janitorial services , accounting , and insurance.The students and faculty do n't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks and work/study payments , and there 's something they use every day .
Sounds to me like this is a lesson to be learned for a bunch of college brats who ca n't adjust to change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a service.
Just like the phone company, janitorial services, accounting, and insurance.The students and faculty don't clamor for input and transparency on which payroll company the university uses to issue paychecks and work/study payments, and there's something they use every day.
Sounds to me like this is a lesson to be learned for a bunch of college brats who can't adjust to change.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126256</id>
	<title>News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266069900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whatever they decide to do, some people are going to complain. The gmail-based service lets people use POP and IMAP so they can use a different UI if they want. So you've got real flexibility, and a default UI that (in most people's opinions) doesn't suck.  So... what was the problem again?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever they decide to do , some people are going to complain .
The gmail-based service lets people use POP and IMAP so they can use a different UI if they want .
So you 've got real flexibility , and a default UI that ( in most people 's opinions ) does n't suck .
So... what was the problem again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever they decide to do, some people are going to complain.
The gmail-based service lets people use POP and IMAP so they can use a different UI if they want.
So you've got real flexibility, and a default UI that (in most people's opinions) doesn't suck.
So... what was the problem again?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129558</id>
	<title>Re:We did this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266053100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>UMN? I've been waiting for months. When do us lowly grad students get the option?!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>UMN ?
I 've been waiting for months .
When do us lowly grad students get the option ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UMN?
I've been waiting for months.
When do us lowly grad students get the option?!
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126870</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Sirusjr</author>
	<datestamp>1266075840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I still wonder why anyone in my class would bother to login to the school email.  My first day of any school, i've logged in, set up forwarding and never logged in again.  Yet I still see the majority of my classmates checking their school email as a separate thing and you wonder why nobody gets the "important" faculty mail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I still wonder why anyone in my class would bother to login to the school email .
My first day of any school , i 've logged in , set up forwarding and never logged in again .
Yet I still see the majority of my classmates checking their school email as a separate thing and you wonder why nobody gets the " important " faculty mail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still wonder why anyone in my class would bother to login to the school email.
My first day of any school, i've logged in, set up forwarding and never logged in again.
Yet I still see the majority of my classmates checking their school email as a separate thing and you wonder why nobody gets the "important" faculty mail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31134974</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266168120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You went to yale as a grad student and now you're going to school some where else? Ever think of becoming a productive member of society?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You went to yale as a grad student and now you 're going to school some where else ?
Ever think of becoming a productive member of society ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You went to yale as a grad student and now you're going to school some where else?
Ever think of becoming a productive member of society?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127106</id>
	<title>Opt out?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266078180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Opt-out?  It's a private email service.  You can opt out by not using it.  Forward the mail to some other email account.</p><p>That like saying, I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Opt-out ?
It 's a private email service .
You can opt out by not using it .
Forward the mail to some other email account.That like saying , I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Opt-out?
It's a private email service.
You can opt out by not using it.
Forward the mail to some other email account.That like saying, I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126340</id>
	<title>but you can atleast be transparent</title>
	<author>BhaKi</author>
	<datestamp>1266070620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least, they should openly specify the reasons why they chose Google.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least , they should openly specify the reasons why they chose Google .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least, they should openly specify the reasons why they chose Google.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128924</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266091380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a developer for the last 10 years, I can say one reason to outsource all that to Google is because more than likely your local IT guys are too lazy to manage email properly. I can't tell you how many problems we've had with email going down, constant nagging on storage limits (if you work in a fast paced business you're going to get a lot of attachments, revisions, etc.) Clients will roll their eyes when you ask them to ftp documents or use a file server. Email is just how most businesses are used to sending files.</p><p>These kinds of problems are understandable, because as a developer I know these problems are expected. However, it's not expected to have the same problem over and over again and getting the same responses over and over "We'll look into it.". I've heard IT admins tell account/project managers over and over "It can't be done. It's not technically possible." In fact, I know it is, they're just too lazy to do it.</p><p>If IT admins are worried about losing their jobs, they need to provide  more value. Take a break from WoW at work and try to keep up with everyone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a developer for the last 10 years , I can say one reason to outsource all that to Google is because more than likely your local IT guys are too lazy to manage email properly .
I ca n't tell you how many problems we 've had with email going down , constant nagging on storage limits ( if you work in a fast paced business you 're going to get a lot of attachments , revisions , etc .
) Clients will roll their eyes when you ask them to ftp documents or use a file server .
Email is just how most businesses are used to sending files.These kinds of problems are understandable , because as a developer I know these problems are expected .
However , it 's not expected to have the same problem over and over again and getting the same responses over and over " We 'll look into it. " .
I 've heard IT admins tell account/project managers over and over " It ca n't be done .
It 's not technically possible .
" In fact , I know it is , they 're just too lazy to do it.If IT admins are worried about losing their jobs , they need to provide more value .
Take a break from WoW at work and try to keep up with everyone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a developer for the last 10 years, I can say one reason to outsource all that to Google is because more than likely your local IT guys are too lazy to manage email properly.
I can't tell you how many problems we've had with email going down, constant nagging on storage limits (if you work in a fast paced business you're going to get a lot of attachments, revisions, etc.
) Clients will roll their eyes when you ask them to ftp documents or use a file server.
Email is just how most businesses are used to sending files.These kinds of problems are understandable, because as a developer I know these problems are expected.
However, it's not expected to have the same problem over and over again and getting the same responses over and over "We'll look into it.".
I've heard IT admins tell account/project managers over and over "It can't be done.
It's not technically possible.
" In fact, I know it is, they're just too lazy to do it.If IT admins are worried about losing their jobs, they need to provide  more value.
Take a break from WoW at work and try to keep up with everyone else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126200</id>
	<title>chillaxinate, broheims</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266069180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone still afraid of things like this needs to chillax.</p><p>Ugh, nerds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone still afraid of things like this needs to chillax.Ugh , nerds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone still afraid of things like this needs to chillax.Ugh, nerds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126518</id>
	<title>Same but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266072600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Google's IMAP implementation is horrible, to the point of only barely being usable.  I get frequent IMAP errors regarding folders not being found, even when the folders are being reported by the server -- and I am not the only one.  Google has been aware of these problems for years now and done absolutely nothing about it.<br> <br>

Of course, my main objective to universities switching to Google has nothing to do with functionality.  GMail is proprietary software, and universities should not be locking themselves into solutions provided by specific corporations.  Hey, maybe I am just too much of a free software guy, but if nobody voices the concern...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google 's IMAP implementation is horrible , to the point of only barely being usable .
I get frequent IMAP errors regarding folders not being found , even when the folders are being reported by the server -- and I am not the only one .
Google has been aware of these problems for years now and done absolutely nothing about it .
Of course , my main objective to universities switching to Google has nothing to do with functionality .
GMail is proprietary software , and universities should not be locking themselves into solutions provided by specific corporations .
Hey , maybe I am just too much of a free software guy , but if nobody voices the concern.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google's IMAP implementation is horrible, to the point of only barely being usable.
I get frequent IMAP errors regarding folders not being found, even when the folders are being reported by the server -- and I am not the only one.
Google has been aware of these problems for years now and done absolutely nothing about it.
Of course, my main objective to universities switching to Google has nothing to do with functionality.
GMail is proprietary software, and universities should not be locking themselves into solutions provided by specific corporations.
Hey, maybe I am just too much of a free software guy, but if nobody voices the concern...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130802</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266063240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface. I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.</p></div></blockquote><p>Kids these days. When I was at school, everyone used Pine and we were content.</p></div><p>Back in my day school announcements were read by the homeroom teacher, the principal or secretary over the PA system, and occasionally written in the form of a letter to parents. Pjne... That was a tree in my day. GMail... Never heard of it. Get off my lawn!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// tosses beer bottle<nobr> <wbr></nobr>//</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a grad student there , and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface .
I practically never used it , since I 've always set up IMAP.Kids these days .
When I was at school , everyone used Pine and we were content.Back in my day school announcements were read by the homeroom teacher , the principal or secretary over the PA system , and occasionally written in the form of a letter to parents .
Pjne... That was a tree in my day .
GMail... Never heard of it .
Get off my lawn !
// tosses beer bottle //</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.
I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.Kids these days.
When I was at school, everyone used Pine and we were content.Back in my day school announcements were read by the homeroom teacher, the principal or secretary over the PA system, and occasionally written in the form of a letter to parents.
Pjne... That was a tree in my day.
GMail... Never heard of it.
Get off my lawn!
// tosses beer bottle //
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130462</id>
	<title>Issues involved with migrating over to using Gmail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266060240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are issues that need to be considered, and risks that need to be accepted when contemplating a migration over to using Gmail.</p><p>1/ a large organisation currently using MS Exchange will most likely end up needing to replace their existing server(s) with potentially more servers in order to go with a gmail solution - especially if a single-sign-on solution is wanted.</p><p>2/ internet bandwidth costs will dramatically increase.</p><p>3/ there is presently no easy way to walk away from using gmail if a decision is made at a later date to move away from gmail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are issues that need to be considered , and risks that need to be accepted when contemplating a migration over to using Gmail.1/ a large organisation currently using MS Exchange will most likely end up needing to replace their existing server ( s ) with potentially more servers in order to go with a gmail solution - especially if a single-sign-on solution is wanted.2/ internet bandwidth costs will dramatically increase.3/ there is presently no easy way to walk away from using gmail if a decision is made at a later date to move away from gmail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are issues that need to be considered, and risks that need to be accepted when contemplating a migration over to using Gmail.1/ a large organisation currently using MS Exchange will most likely end up needing to replace their existing server(s) with potentially more servers in order to go with a gmail solution - especially if a single-sign-on solution is wanted.2/ internet bandwidth costs will dramatically increase.3/ there is presently no easy way to walk away from using gmail if a decision is made at a later date to move away from gmail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128102</id>
	<title>Google does this to read your emails.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1266085440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Bear in mind that Google runs Gmail so they can read your emails automatically and profile you. That's why Gmail is offered for free.
</p><p>
Think about that.   Google has profiling data on Ivy League students, many of whom will grow up to be business leaders and political figures.  (Ford, Clinton and both Bushes went to Yale.)  That data will be politically valuable in the future.
</p><p>
Google has the information to figure out a GMail user's social network.  They can tell who responds to whom, and how fast, which allows figuring out the social hierarchy.  Google can easily detect discussions of criminal activity and drugs.  They have real name data, so they can correlate mail accounts with other information, like criminal records. So they're acquiring the data that will tell them where pressure should be applied to coerce people.
</p><p>
For most people, that data is barely worth collecting.  But for Yale students, it's golden.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bear in mind that Google runs Gmail so they can read your emails automatically and profile you .
That 's why Gmail is offered for free .
Think about that .
Google has profiling data on Ivy League students , many of whom will grow up to be business leaders and political figures .
( Ford , Clinton and both Bushes went to Yale .
) That data will be politically valuable in the future .
Google has the information to figure out a GMail user 's social network .
They can tell who responds to whom , and how fast , which allows figuring out the social hierarchy .
Google can easily detect discussions of criminal activity and drugs .
They have real name data , so they can correlate mail accounts with other information , like criminal records .
So they 're acquiring the data that will tell them where pressure should be applied to coerce people .
For most people , that data is barely worth collecting .
But for Yale students , it 's golden .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Bear in mind that Google runs Gmail so they can read your emails automatically and profile you.
That's why Gmail is offered for free.
Think about that.
Google has profiling data on Ivy League students, many of whom will grow up to be business leaders and political figures.
(Ford, Clinton and both Bushes went to Yale.
)  That data will be politically valuable in the future.
Google has the information to figure out a GMail user's social network.
They can tell who responds to whom, and how fast, which allows figuring out the social hierarchy.
Google can easily detect discussions of criminal activity and drugs.
They have real name data, so they can correlate mail accounts with other information, like criminal records.
So they're acquiring the data that will tell them where pressure should be applied to coerce people.
For most people, that data is barely worth collecting.
But for Yale students, it's golden.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126910</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266076080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at a community college (12000 students) that recently switched to Gmail for staff and students.  We were using Oracle Collaboration Suite.  Most people have welcomed the change with open arms.  Oh, and we do have access to all of the Labs features that are in my personal Gmail account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at a community college ( 12000 students ) that recently switched to Gmail for staff and students .
We were using Oracle Collaboration Suite .
Most people have welcomed the change with open arms .
Oh , and we do have access to all of the Labs features that are in my personal Gmail account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at a community college (12000 students) that recently switched to Gmail for staff and students.
We were using Oracle Collaboration Suite.
Most people have welcomed the change with open arms.
Oh, and we do have access to all of the Labs features that are in my personal Gmail account.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128262</id>
	<title>University IT shouldn't be allowed near a computer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266086460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Changing to webmail is really a win-win for everyone involved.  It's pretty much the most important IT service, and it needs to work near 100\% of the time.   Those types of guarantees are only viable with a large corporation like Google or Yahoo.  Also, in my opinion, one less thing that IT manages, is a good idea for me.  All they seem to do here is put up roadblocks to doing what you want to do.  ("Oh you want to install linux?  Too bad, Windows XP service pack 3 is the only thing we allow on computers"  "you want administrator access to your OS?  I don't think so...you might install a virus which would compromise the security of the ENTIRE network).  "You want to buy a computer other than a DELL?  Why would you want to do that?  We get major kickbacks from forcing you to buy DELLs...so no!  Oh you want to buy a DELL Home system?  No, you have to buy a "business" system because that fancy "precision" name and box is worth $1000 more for the same shitty components inside.  Don't worry though, you'll get a 3-year warranty that we force you to buy."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Changing to webmail is really a win-win for everyone involved .
It 's pretty much the most important IT service , and it needs to work near 100 \ % of the time .
Those types of guarantees are only viable with a large corporation like Google or Yahoo .
Also , in my opinion , one less thing that IT manages , is a good idea for me .
All they seem to do here is put up roadblocks to doing what you want to do .
( " Oh you want to install linux ?
Too bad , Windows XP service pack 3 is the only thing we allow on computers " " you want administrator access to your OS ?
I do n't think so...you might install a virus which would compromise the security of the ENTIRE network ) .
" You want to buy a computer other than a DELL ?
Why would you want to do that ?
We get major kickbacks from forcing you to buy DELLs...so no !
Oh you want to buy a DELL Home system ?
No , you have to buy a " business " system because that fancy " precision " name and box is worth $ 1000 more for the same shitty components inside .
Do n't worry though , you 'll get a 3-year warranty that we force you to buy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Changing to webmail is really a win-win for everyone involved.
It's pretty much the most important IT service, and it needs to work near 100\% of the time.
Those types of guarantees are only viable with a large corporation like Google or Yahoo.
Also, in my opinion, one less thing that IT manages, is a good idea for me.
All they seem to do here is put up roadblocks to doing what you want to do.
("Oh you want to install linux?
Too bad, Windows XP service pack 3 is the only thing we allow on computers"  "you want administrator access to your OS?
I don't think so...you might install a virus which would compromise the security of the ENTIRE network).
"You want to buy a computer other than a DELL?
Why would you want to do that?
We get major kickbacks from forcing you to buy DELLs...so no!
Oh you want to buy a DELL Home system?
No, you have to buy a "business" system because that fancy "precision" name and box is worth $1000 more for the same shitty components inside.
Don't worry though, you'll get a 3-year warranty that we force you to buy.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128828</id>
	<title>Re:Why not?</title>
	<author>wjc\_25</author>
	<datestamp>1266090660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm assuming they meant ivy-leagues, but yeah, U.Va has this, and it's very convenient. It's also helpful having the whole student body (or nearly the whole student body; I know a few people who pick the MS option) on Gmail since it gives you access to Gchat with whoever you're working with on homeworks, projects, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm assuming they meant ivy-leagues , but yeah , U.Va has this , and it 's very convenient .
It 's also helpful having the whole student body ( or nearly the whole student body ; I know a few people who pick the MS option ) on Gmail since it gives you access to Gchat with whoever you 're working with on homeworks , projects , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm assuming they meant ivy-leagues, but yeah, U.Va has this, and it's very convenient.
It's also helpful having the whole student body (or nearly the whole student body; I know a few people who pick the MS option) on Gmail since it gives you access to Gchat with whoever you're working with on homeworks, projects, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128978</id>
	<title>Re:Opt out?</title>
	<author>ThrowAwaySociety</author>
	<datestamp>1266091800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...You can opt out by not using it.  Forward the mail to some other email account.</p><p>That like saying, I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee.</p></div><p>That's like saying, "You can opt-out of Starbucks coffee by pouring it into a Dunkin Donuts cup."</p><p>Some people don't want Google's servers to be mining their email. Forwarding it doesn't accomplish that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...You can opt out by not using it .
Forward the mail to some other email account.That like saying , I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee.That 's like saying , " You can opt-out of Starbucks coffee by pouring it into a Dunkin Donuts cup .
" Some people do n't want Google 's servers to be mining their email .
Forwarding it does n't accomplish that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...You can opt out by not using it.
Forward the mail to some other email account.That like saying, I want to opt-out of Starbucks coffee.That's like saying, "You can opt-out of Starbucks coffee by pouring it into a Dunkin Donuts cup.
"Some people don't want Google's servers to be mining their email.
Forwarding it doesn't accomplish that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130974</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266065040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I LOVE pine.  Best email interface I have ever used.  Especially when there are hundres of emails to be "processed".  Too bad it only exists in Unix/Linux world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I LOVE pine .
Best email interface I have ever used .
Especially when there are hundres of emails to be " processed " .
Too bad it only exists in Unix/Linux world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I LOVE pine.
Best email interface I have ever used.
Especially when there are hundres of emails to be "processed".
Too bad it only exists in Unix/Linux world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31136590</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Modern Primate</author>
	<datestamp>1266139260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.</p></div><p>Yet another reason to say...  FOR THE ALLIANCE!!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a grad student there , and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.Yet another reason to say... FOR THE ALLIANCE ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.Yet another reason to say...  FOR THE ALLIANCE!!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126310</id>
	<title>Welcome to "gov"mail</title>
	<author>AHuxley</author>
	<datestamp>1266070380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Government mail, now with 100\% legal links to the NSA.<br>
You would think Yale having all the Skull and Bones types someone would know about not trusting mail servers.<br>
After China are the terms "off-site" and Google "maintain it" of any real use to US academia?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Government mail , now with 100 \ % legal links to the NSA .
You would think Yale having all the Skull and Bones types someone would know about not trusting mail servers .
After China are the terms " off-site " and Google " maintain it " of any real use to US academia ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Government mail, now with 100\% legal links to the NSA.
You would think Yale having all the Skull and Bones types someone would know about not trusting mail servers.
After China are the terms "off-site" and Google "maintain it" of any real use to US academia?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128452</id>
	<title>Re:short sighted</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266087840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please add "There is no option to opt out of Google/Yahoo/Anyone datamining my life".</p><p>Google goes so far beyond search and email when it comes to the web. Your browser is likely communicating with Google while you're reading this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please add " There is no option to opt out of Google/Yahoo/Anyone datamining my life " .Google goes so far beyond search and email when it comes to the web .
Your browser is likely communicating with Google while you 're reading this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please add "There is no option to opt out of Google/Yahoo/Anyone datamining my life".Google goes so far beyond search and email when it comes to the web.
Your browser is likely communicating with Google while you're reading this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131136</id>
	<title>We're going a different route...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266066720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(Disclaimer: I work for a large US University, and I work on the team that provides student email, so I think I can speak with authority on this issue)</p><p>In the early 90's, students couldn't really have been expected to have an email address, so departments like CS and Math departments set up their own email servers for communication with students and with faculty in other universities.  Registrars and student affairs departments wanted other ways to communicate with students, so they created centralized email systems for students.  These days, schools are realizing that instead of providing a service to students that they want to use, the "official" school email system goes largely unused by a large population of the students, and a great number of students forward their email to their personal Gmail, Live, or Yahoo accounts, or they only check it at the beginning and end of the semester.</p><p>2 years ago, we were one of the first large Universities to outsource our email to Google Apps for Education.  We in IT loved it, since it saved us a ton of money that we were going to have to spend to upgrade the student email system from the archaic, home-grown patchwork that was the old system.  A lot of students liked it as well, but again, a lot of them forwarded their email to their personal accounts or just don't check it.  Surveys of our students overwhelmingly show that students would prefer to just us their "regular" email accounts instead of forwarding, and another survey showed that a significant portion of the professors simply pass around a sheet for student to write their personal email addresses on anyway, or use our Blackboard online course management software to send messages to the class.</p><p>In this day and age, it is a pretty safe bet that incoming freshman already have an email account that they use frequently, running an email system is expensive and unpopular with students, and outsourcing has headaches that aren't apparent from the outset (or the outside looking in).  We are starting a project to simply allow students to choose their personal email address as their "official" email account and slowly phase out Google Apps (nothing against Google Apps, it's a great service and we love you guys!).</p><p>Our CIO put it this way: I already have a joe.smith4324@gooyalivemail.com email address, I don't have a joe.smith@mybank.com email or a joe.smith@theelectricco.com or a joe.smith@myinsurancecompany.com, so why do I need a joe.smith23@my.school.edu???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( Disclaimer : I work for a large US University , and I work on the team that provides student email , so I think I can speak with authority on this issue ) In the early 90 's , students could n't really have been expected to have an email address , so departments like CS and Math departments set up their own email servers for communication with students and with faculty in other universities .
Registrars and student affairs departments wanted other ways to communicate with students , so they created centralized email systems for students .
These days , schools are realizing that instead of providing a service to students that they want to use , the " official " school email system goes largely unused by a large population of the students , and a great number of students forward their email to their personal Gmail , Live , or Yahoo accounts , or they only check it at the beginning and end of the semester.2 years ago , we were one of the first large Universities to outsource our email to Google Apps for Education .
We in IT loved it , since it saved us a ton of money that we were going to have to spend to upgrade the student email system from the archaic , home-grown patchwork that was the old system .
A lot of students liked it as well , but again , a lot of them forwarded their email to their personal accounts or just do n't check it .
Surveys of our students overwhelmingly show that students would prefer to just us their " regular " email accounts instead of forwarding , and another survey showed that a significant portion of the professors simply pass around a sheet for student to write their personal email addresses on anyway , or use our Blackboard online course management software to send messages to the class.In this day and age , it is a pretty safe bet that incoming freshman already have an email account that they use frequently , running an email system is expensive and unpopular with students , and outsourcing has headaches that are n't apparent from the outset ( or the outside looking in ) .
We are starting a project to simply allow students to choose their personal email address as their " official " email account and slowly phase out Google Apps ( nothing against Google Apps , it 's a great service and we love you guys !
) .Our CIO put it this way : I already have a joe.smith4324 @ gooyalivemail.com email address , I do n't have a joe.smith @ mybank.com email or a joe.smith @ theelectricco.com or a joe.smith @ myinsurancecompany.com , so why do I need a joe.smith23 @ my.school.edu ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Disclaimer: I work for a large US University, and I work on the team that provides student email, so I think I can speak with authority on this issue)In the early 90's, students couldn't really have been expected to have an email address, so departments like CS and Math departments set up their own email servers for communication with students and with faculty in other universities.
Registrars and student affairs departments wanted other ways to communicate with students, so they created centralized email systems for students.
These days, schools are realizing that instead of providing a service to students that they want to use, the "official" school email system goes largely unused by a large population of the students, and a great number of students forward their email to their personal Gmail, Live, or Yahoo accounts, or they only check it at the beginning and end of the semester.2 years ago, we were one of the first large Universities to outsource our email to Google Apps for Education.
We in IT loved it, since it saved us a ton of money that we were going to have to spend to upgrade the student email system from the archaic, home-grown patchwork that was the old system.
A lot of students liked it as well, but again, a lot of them forwarded their email to their personal accounts or just don't check it.
Surveys of our students overwhelmingly show that students would prefer to just us their "regular" email accounts instead of forwarding, and another survey showed that a significant portion of the professors simply pass around a sheet for student to write their personal email addresses on anyway, or use our Blackboard online course management software to send messages to the class.In this day and age, it is a pretty safe bet that incoming freshman already have an email account that they use frequently, running an email system is expensive and unpopular with students, and outsourcing has headaches that aren't apparent from the outset (or the outside looking in).
We are starting a project to simply allow students to choose their personal email address as their "official" email account and slowly phase out Google Apps (nothing against Google Apps, it's a great service and we love you guys!
).Our CIO put it this way: I already have a joe.smith4324@gooyalivemail.com email address, I don't have a joe.smith@mybank.com email or a joe.smith@theelectricco.com or a joe.smith@myinsurancecompany.com, so why do I need a joe.smith23@my.school.edu??
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128960</id>
	<title>Re:Google does this to read your emails.</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1266091680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1548756&amp;cid=31127348" title="slashdot.org">This slashdotter asserts</a> [slashdot.org] that with Google Apps for Education, they promise not to mine the content at all.</p><p>That Google uses email content as blackmail material is a ridiculous idea. If it ever came to light the whole company would be ruined. They're making quite enough money through legitimate means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This slashdotter asserts [ slashdot.org ] that with Google Apps for Education , they promise not to mine the content at all.That Google uses email content as blackmail material is a ridiculous idea .
If it ever came to light the whole company would be ruined .
They 're making quite enough money through legitimate means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This slashdotter asserts [slashdot.org] that with Google Apps for Education, they promise not to mine the content at all.That Google uses email content as blackmail material is a ridiculous idea.
If it ever came to light the whole company would be ruined.
They're making quite enough money through legitimate means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126796</id>
	<title>Re:Having gone there...</title>
	<author>Albanach</author>
	<datestamp>1266075300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface. I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.</p></div></blockquote><p>Kids these days. When I was at school, everyone used Pine and we were content.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a grad student there , and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface .
I practically never used it , since I 've always set up IMAP.Kids these days .
When I was at school , everyone used Pine and we were content .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a grad student there, and most of the people I knew hated the Horde webmail interface.
I practically never used it, since I've always set up IMAP.Kids these days.
When I was at school, everyone used Pine and we were content.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129636</id>
	<title>My Ivy-League university uses Windows Live</title>
	<author>slimjim8094</author>
	<datestamp>1266053640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...at least for the arts and sciences college. Like a good Slashdotter, I'm in engineering, which hosts their own mail (we even get a proper mailspool on our Unix home-directory). We have Pine or IMAP, or basically whatever we want.</p><p>Meanwhile "they" have Live Hotmail. I feel just terrible for them, and I'm embarrassed we're even doing such a thing.</p><p>In short, Yale - it could be worse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...at least for the arts and sciences college .
Like a good Slashdotter , I 'm in engineering , which hosts their own mail ( we even get a proper mailspool on our Unix home-directory ) .
We have Pine or IMAP , or basically whatever we want.Meanwhile " they " have Live Hotmail .
I feel just terrible for them , and I 'm embarrassed we 're even doing such a thing.In short , Yale - it could be worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...at least for the arts and sciences college.
Like a good Slashdotter, I'm in engineering, which hosts their own mail (we even get a proper mailspool on our Unix home-directory).
We have Pine or IMAP, or basically whatever we want.Meanwhile "they" have Live Hotmail.
I feel just terrible for them, and I'm embarrassed we're even doing such a thing.In short, Yale - it could be worse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129798</id>
	<title>Happening at my university</title>
	<author>RzUpAnmsCwrds</author>
	<datestamp>1266054600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is happening at my university (University of Colorado), except that we selected Microsoft. Both Microsoft and Google offer this service free of charge. I'm not entirely sure why Microsoft won the contract, but I know that the person in charge of the selection process is actually a big Linux/FOSS fan, so there must have been some compelling reason.</p><p>Frankly, it can't happen soon enough. The university is not in the business of running email - they're in the business of providing education. If email services that are higher in quality can be offered for a lower cost, it just makes sense. Privacy, ownership, and other details are dealt through during the negotiating process. As with the power company, the phone company, or the cable company, the university has a binding contract that prevents things like Google/Microsoft unilaterally shutting off service. Additionally, the service will be advertisement free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is happening at my university ( University of Colorado ) , except that we selected Microsoft .
Both Microsoft and Google offer this service free of charge .
I 'm not entirely sure why Microsoft won the contract , but I know that the person in charge of the selection process is actually a big Linux/FOSS fan , so there must have been some compelling reason.Frankly , it ca n't happen soon enough .
The university is not in the business of running email - they 're in the business of providing education .
If email services that are higher in quality can be offered for a lower cost , it just makes sense .
Privacy , ownership , and other details are dealt through during the negotiating process .
As with the power company , the phone company , or the cable company , the university has a binding contract that prevents things like Google/Microsoft unilaterally shutting off service .
Additionally , the service will be advertisement free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is happening at my university (University of Colorado), except that we selected Microsoft.
Both Microsoft and Google offer this service free of charge.
I'm not entirely sure why Microsoft won the contract, but I know that the person in charge of the selection process is actually a big Linux/FOSS fan, so there must have been some compelling reason.Frankly, it can't happen soon enough.
The university is not in the business of running email - they're in the business of providing education.
If email services that are higher in quality can be offered for a lower cost, it just makes sense.
Privacy, ownership, and other details are dealt through during the negotiating process.
As with the power company, the phone company, or the cable company, the university has a binding contract that prevents things like Google/Microsoft unilaterally shutting off service.
Additionally, the service will be advertisement free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127550</id>
	<title>no option to opt out?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266081300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There was no option to opt out? I'm a grad student at Nortwestern University; they outsourced most of their e-mail to google about a year ago. However, there is the option to declare that one is dealing with confidential information, in which case one can keep the university e-mail account and does not have to switch to google. As far as I know they also don't allow faculty to switch to the google provided services because of privacy concerns.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was no option to opt out ?
I 'm a grad student at Nortwestern University ; they outsourced most of their e-mail to google about a year ago .
However , there is the option to declare that one is dealing with confidential information , in which case one can keep the university e-mail account and does not have to switch to google .
As far as I know they also do n't allow faculty to switch to the google provided services because of privacy concerns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was no option to opt out?
I'm a grad student at Nortwestern University; they outsourced most of their e-mail to google about a year ago.
However, there is the option to declare that one is dealing with confidential information, in which case one can keep the university e-mail account and does not have to switch to google.
As far as I know they also don't allow faculty to switch to the google provided services because of privacy concerns.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126542</id>
	<title>Horde is garbage</title>
	<author>benjfowler</author>
	<datestamp>1266072780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Horde is pure, utter shite, obviously written by weekend PHP developers with short attention spans, and wouldn't know a decently-designed user interface if it jumped up and bit them in the face.</p><p>The university I went to used (and probably still does) use it.  It's a pain to use, and a pain to administer.</p><p>What's so hard about writing a decent Web email client anyway?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Horde is pure , utter shite , obviously written by weekend PHP developers with short attention spans , and would n't know a decently-designed user interface if it jumped up and bit them in the face.The university I went to used ( and probably still does ) use it .
It 's a pain to use , and a pain to administer.What 's so hard about writing a decent Web email client anyway ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Horde is pure, utter shite, obviously written by weekend PHP developers with short attention spans, and wouldn't know a decently-designed user interface if it jumped up and bit them in the face.The university I went to used (and probably still does) use it.
It's a pain to use, and a pain to administer.What's so hard about writing a decent Web email client anyway?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129700</id>
	<title>Google service is not available at all countries</title>
	<author>menphix</author>
	<datestamp>1266054060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the things to consider is that Google's service is not available in all countries. Some countries block Gmail. This would be a downside for those international students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the things to consider is that Google 's service is not available in all countries .
Some countries block Gmail .
This would be a downside for those international students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the things to consider is that Google's service is not available in all countries.
Some countries block Gmail.
This would be a downside for those international students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31141118</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266173700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's where you earn your living Mr. IT Manager. Regardless of Gmail or not, if the information is sensitive enough, you wouldn't want to send it around in clear text even if its a Uni owned mail server.  Use something like PGP/GPG to encrypt the content... enough hints, go do your job.  Having everything in house is just not scalable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's where you earn your living Mr. IT Manager .
Regardless of Gmail or not , if the information is sensitive enough , you would n't want to send it around in clear text even if its a Uni owned mail server .
Use something like PGP/GPG to encrypt the content... enough hints , go do your job .
Having everything in house is just not scalable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's where you earn your living Mr. IT Manager.
Regardless of Gmail or not, if the information is sensitive enough, you wouldn't want to send it around in clear text even if its a Uni owned mail server.
Use something like PGP/GPG to encrypt the content... enough hints, go do your job.
Having everything in house is just not scalable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31132932</id>
	<title>perhaps its all for good...</title>
	<author>nerdyalien</author>
	<datestamp>1266090180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My university provided me with a typical student mailbox of 50MB (which was increased to 300MB in 2007). It had a clunky web interface, no filters and no support for IMAP or POP for that matter. So the problem is inevitable, you are out of space all the time.</p><p>It wasn't a bigger deal back in undergrad days. But once I joined back as a postgrad, I had to use the official university account frequently to correspond with students, counter-parts, administration and so on (mostly official work). I ended up FWD mail to my gmail, then set up gmail to send on behalf of my university account. Then I managed to access gmail with outllook using IMAP. Things are all good and organized, unless google IMAP runs into some sort of trouble.</p><p>But then again, I am wondering who communicates with e-mails these days.. apart from people working in office environments. I know some junior fellas in here who literally don't check their inboxes. They are happy to settle with FB, twitter, IM or text messages. Then I met someone the other day, she finds e-mail so old fashioned and irritating (and she went on complaining how hard it is to concentrate reading long ones and keep track of details.. sounds ADHD to me).</p><p>I am not lying here, my university implemented a "results over text message" system and was considering delivering news, event details and other important messages via text, as students don't check their inboxes frequent enough. I don't know, I find it ridiculous nevertheless!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My university provided me with a typical student mailbox of 50MB ( which was increased to 300MB in 2007 ) .
It had a clunky web interface , no filters and no support for IMAP or POP for that matter .
So the problem is inevitable , you are out of space all the time.It was n't a bigger deal back in undergrad days .
But once I joined back as a postgrad , I had to use the official university account frequently to correspond with students , counter-parts , administration and so on ( mostly official work ) .
I ended up FWD mail to my gmail , then set up gmail to send on behalf of my university account .
Then I managed to access gmail with outllook using IMAP .
Things are all good and organized , unless google IMAP runs into some sort of trouble.But then again , I am wondering who communicates with e-mails these days.. apart from people working in office environments .
I know some junior fellas in here who literally do n't check their inboxes .
They are happy to settle with FB , twitter , IM or text messages .
Then I met someone the other day , she finds e-mail so old fashioned and irritating ( and she went on complaining how hard it is to concentrate reading long ones and keep track of details.. sounds ADHD to me ) .I am not lying here , my university implemented a " results over text message " system and was considering delivering news , event details and other important messages via text , as students do n't check their inboxes frequent enough .
I do n't know , I find it ridiculous nevertheless !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university provided me with a typical student mailbox of 50MB (which was increased to 300MB in 2007).
It had a clunky web interface, no filters and no support for IMAP or POP for that matter.
So the problem is inevitable, you are out of space all the time.It wasn't a bigger deal back in undergrad days.
But once I joined back as a postgrad, I had to use the official university account frequently to correspond with students, counter-parts, administration and so on (mostly official work).
I ended up FWD mail to my gmail, then set up gmail to send on behalf of my university account.
Then I managed to access gmail with outllook using IMAP.
Things are all good and organized, unless google IMAP runs into some sort of trouble.But then again, I am wondering who communicates with e-mails these days.. apart from people working in office environments.
I know some junior fellas in here who literally don't check their inboxes.
They are happy to settle with FB, twitter, IM or text messages.
Then I met someone the other day, she finds e-mail so old fashioned and irritating (and she went on complaining how hard it is to concentrate reading long ones and keep track of details.. sounds ADHD to me).I am not lying here, my university implemented a "results over text message" system and was considering delivering news, event details and other important messages via text, as students don't check their inboxes frequent enough.
I don't know, I find it ridiculous nevertheless!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130430</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing really</title>
	<author>belmolis</author>
	<datestamp>1266060000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
At many schools there is not much relationship between the CS department and IT, or more accurately, the relationship is often hostile. Years ago when I was at Stanford in spite of the presence of an excellent CS department IT was antedeluvian.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At many schools there is not much relationship between the CS department and IT , or more accurately , the relationship is often hostile .
Years ago when I was at Stanford in spite of the presence of an excellent CS department IT was antedeluvian .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
At many schools there is not much relationship between the CS department and IT, or more accurately, the relationship is often hostile.
Years ago when I was at Stanford in spite of the presence of an excellent CS department IT was antedeluvian.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266070860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you bothered to read the second link (like that'd happen but whatever), it isn't as much a staunch "we never want to use Gmail" as a request for more transparency/information about what the agreements and options being discussed/setup by Yale's IT administration and Google. It includes requests for more information on such things as where the data is going to be stored, why Google is 'generously' providing this service free of charge and without advertisements (i.e., how much privacy/rights <em>do</em> you have with your e-mails), what happens if Google changes their mind down the road and wants to start charging Yale, and a few other similar concerns.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you bothered to read the second link ( like that 'd happen but whatever ) , it is n't as much a staunch " we never want to use Gmail " as a request for more transparency/information about what the agreements and options being discussed/setup by Yale 's IT administration and Google .
It includes requests for more information on such things as where the data is going to be stored , why Google is 'generously ' providing this service free of charge and without advertisements ( i.e. , how much privacy/rights do you have with your e-mails ) , what happens if Google changes their mind down the road and wants to start charging Yale , and a few other similar concerns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you bothered to read the second link (like that'd happen but whatever), it isn't as much a staunch "we never want to use Gmail" as a request for more transparency/information about what the agreements and options being discussed/setup by Yale's IT administration and Google.
It includes requests for more information on such things as where the data is going to be stored, why Google is 'generously' providing this service free of charge and without advertisements (i.e., how much privacy/rights do you have with your e-mails), what happens if Google changes their mind down the road and wants to start charging Yale, and a few other similar concerns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127890</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>tangent3</author>
	<datestamp>1266083820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds to me like one BOFH that has been using his spare time reading student emails for juicy stuff is not happy that he no longer gets to read 'private' emails of his users.</p><p>I get the feeling that there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds to me like one BOFH that has been using his spare time reading student emails for juicy stuff is not happy that he no longer gets to read 'private ' emails of his users.I get the feeling that there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds to me like one BOFH that has been using his spare time reading student emails for juicy stuff is not happy that he no longer gets to read 'private' emails of his users.I get the feeling that there is a greater risk of private emails being read by an administrator than by google.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130874</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266063960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I completely agree. At my former company we handled multiple high-level clients, and a few wanted to start switching over to Gmail. One in particular was a big law firm, so we requested that they have some people read over the google TOS and such things. The conclusion they came to was that no one with sensitive information would touch google with a ten foot pole. Yes, they have phrases that say (sic)"We will not read your email" but there are so so many loopholes that basically you should assume that anything on a google server is public. the chances of that actually happening are slim, but would you really trust your SSN/Company IP etc to it? Doubt it. But on the other hand if you have items that sensitive, you should be encrypting you mail anyway! Actually, you should assume that ALL email not encrypted is now public for everyone to see. Anyway, Google has known affiliations with the NSA as well, and personally I believe them to have access to too much information already. But this could all be changed if they would just provide a customizable local client. Gmail package I can install on a server, that would change things. But THEY WONT, because they wont get their precious data-mining done that way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I completely agree .
At my former company we handled multiple high-level clients , and a few wanted to start switching over to Gmail .
One in particular was a big law firm , so we requested that they have some people read over the google TOS and such things .
The conclusion they came to was that no one with sensitive information would touch google with a ten foot pole .
Yes , they have phrases that say ( sic ) " We will not read your email " but there are so so many loopholes that basically you should assume that anything on a google server is public .
the chances of that actually happening are slim , but would you really trust your SSN/Company IP etc to it ?
Doubt it .
But on the other hand if you have items that sensitive , you should be encrypting you mail anyway !
Actually , you should assume that ALL email not encrypted is now public for everyone to see .
Anyway , Google has known affiliations with the NSA as well , and personally I believe them to have access to too much information already .
But this could all be changed if they would just provide a customizable local client .
Gmail package I can install on a server , that would change things .
But THEY WONT , because they wont get their precious data-mining done that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I completely agree.
At my former company we handled multiple high-level clients, and a few wanted to start switching over to Gmail.
One in particular was a big law firm, so we requested that they have some people read over the google TOS and such things.
The conclusion they came to was that no one with sensitive information would touch google with a ten foot pole.
Yes, they have phrases that say (sic)"We will not read your email" but there are so so many loopholes that basically you should assume that anything on a google server is public.
the chances of that actually happening are slim, but would you really trust your SSN/Company IP etc to it?
Doubt it.
But on the other hand if you have items that sensitive, you should be encrypting you mail anyway!
Actually, you should assume that ALL email not encrypted is now public for everyone to see.
Anyway, Google has known affiliations with the NSA as well, and personally I believe them to have access to too much information already.
But this could all be changed if they would just provide a customizable local client.
Gmail package I can install on a server, that would change things.
But THEY WONT, because they wont get their precious data-mining done that way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128436</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266087660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmmm... Gmail may have IMAP issues that I'm unaware of... but my personal year plus IMAP experience with Gmail been flawless!</p><p>I access Gmail with Apple's 'Mail' client and have tons of labels, folders and filters set up as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm... Gmail may have IMAP issues that I 'm unaware of... but my personal year plus IMAP experience with Gmail been flawless ! I access Gmail with Apple 's 'Mail ' client and have tons of labels , folders and filters set up as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm... Gmail may have IMAP issues that I'm unaware of... but my personal year plus IMAP experience with Gmail been flawless!I access Gmail with Apple's 'Mail' client and have tons of labels, folders and filters set up as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126652</id>
	<title>Non-unique.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266073680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All of the issues they're clamoring over are completely non-unique. The simple fact that Google is giving Yale their Google Mail service <b>for free</b> is an advantage that cannot be glossed over in one sentence (as these authors did) for the following reasons:</p><ul><li> <b>It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously.</b> Reliable e-mail systems can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone; removing that burden liberates a huge chip on their shoulders.</li><li> <b>It reduces power consumption, thus reducing monthly costs and increasing eco-friendliness. </b> Yale will probably have a local server on-site which handles backups, but switching to GMail nonetheless allows administrators to either turn off a few servers or reuse them for some other purpose. </li><li> <b>It makes the lives of sysadmins easier.</b> Working with Exchange, Zimbra or whichever email system they currently have on a full-time basis is not easy pickings. Many awkward things can go awry, and a transition to GMail shifts the onus of responsibility on Google's staff, not theirs.</li></ul><p>This doesn't include the fact that no system, regardless of how well it's put together, is immune to the occassional outage. One can argue that administrators don't have much control over fixing an outage on Google's turf, but they have shown consistently that they can get everything back in working order extremely quickly. Plus, being able to manage millions of accounts (which include calendaring and contact storage for almost every account) while retaining extremely reliable levels of uptime is impressive.</p><p>I think the only reason why large-scale corporations haven't considered doing the same is to retain compliance. (Legal would never allow it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All of the issues they 're clamoring over are completely non-unique .
The simple fact that Google is giving Yale their Google Mail service for free is an advantage that can not be glossed over in one sentence ( as these authors did ) for the following reasons : It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously .
Reliable e-mail systems can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone ; removing that burden liberates a huge chip on their shoulders .
It reduces power consumption , thus reducing monthly costs and increasing eco-friendliness .
Yale will probably have a local server on-site which handles backups , but switching to GMail nonetheless allows administrators to either turn off a few servers or reuse them for some other purpose .
It makes the lives of sysadmins easier .
Working with Exchange , Zimbra or whichever email system they currently have on a full-time basis is not easy pickings .
Many awkward things can go awry , and a transition to GMail shifts the onus of responsibility on Google 's staff , not theirs.This does n't include the fact that no system , regardless of how well it 's put together , is immune to the occassional outage .
One can argue that administrators do n't have much control over fixing an outage on Google 's turf , but they have shown consistently that they can get everything back in working order extremely quickly .
Plus , being able to manage millions of accounts ( which include calendaring and contact storage for almost every account ) while retaining extremely reliable levels of uptime is impressive.I think the only reason why large-scale corporations have n't considered doing the same is to retain compliance .
( Legal would never allow it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All of the issues they're clamoring over are completely non-unique.
The simple fact that Google is giving Yale their Google Mail service for free is an advantage that cannot be glossed over in one sentence (as these authors did) for the following reasons: It reduces their operating costs and overhead tremendously.
Reliable e-mail systems can cost tremendous amounts of money on licensing alone; removing that burden liberates a huge chip on their shoulders.
It reduces power consumption, thus reducing monthly costs and increasing eco-friendliness.
Yale will probably have a local server on-site which handles backups, but switching to GMail nonetheless allows administrators to either turn off a few servers or reuse them for some other purpose.
It makes the lives of sysadmins easier.
Working with Exchange, Zimbra or whichever email system they currently have on a full-time basis is not easy pickings.
Many awkward things can go awry, and a transition to GMail shifts the onus of responsibility on Google's staff, not theirs.This doesn't include the fact that no system, regardless of how well it's put together, is immune to the occassional outage.
One can argue that administrators don't have much control over fixing an outage on Google's turf, but they have shown consistently that they can get everything back in working order extremely quickly.
Plus, being able to manage millions of accounts (which include calendaring and contact storage for almost every account) while retaining extremely reliable levels of uptime is impressive.I think the only reason why large-scale corporations haven't considered doing the same is to retain compliance.
(Legal would never allow it).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31132114</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Spit</author>
	<datestamp>1266078240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should always assume that someone's reading your email and operate accordingly. It only takes one accidental or indiscretionate forward or address typo to cause havoc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should always assume that someone 's reading your email and operate accordingly .
It only takes one accidental or indiscretionate forward or address typo to cause havoc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should always assume that someone's reading your email and operate accordingly.
It only takes one accidental or indiscretionate forward or address typo to cause havoc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31129838</id>
	<title>Re:Same but...</title>
	<author>raju1kabir</author>
	<datestamp>1266054900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How much use do you make of folders? That's where most people see problems with Gmail IMAP. Most likely because their data model is really based on tags rather than folders, and the folders you see via IMAP are only a simulation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much use do you make of folders ?
That 's where most people see problems with Gmail IMAP .
Most likely because their data model is really based on tags rather than folders , and the folders you see via IMAP are only a simulation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much use do you make of folders?
That's where most people see problems with Gmail IMAP.
Most likely because their data model is really based on tags rather than folders, and the folders you see via IMAP are only a simulation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128374</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127218</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Jim Hall</author>
	<datestamp>1266078960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>God, I wish my university would do this. We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments. <b>Sure, you can forward it all to gmail (and who doesn't)</b> [...]</p></div><p>I thought I'd point out something that most students are unaware of: <em>When you sign up for your own @gmail.com account, you give up ownership of your email.</em> It's in the use agreement.</p><p>This is an important point, because when the university makes an agreement with Google, there's a whole legal process behind it. The university retains the ownership over the email; Google is just the provider. That's how we did it at our university.</p><p>Here's the distinction: Did Google (or Yahoo, or Microsoft, or any other webmail provider) mess up and accidentally let someone else view your @gmail.com account? Oops, too bad - but that was really Google's data, not yours. You can get angry at them, but you don't really have any legal recourse. <em>But if Google makes that error for a contractual hosted customer (like University GMail) it's Google's problem, and there's a legal process to go with it.</em> With the legal contractual stuff in there, the university has some protection.</p><p>I work in central IT for a large university. [Disclaimer: I'm not on the GMail team.] We knew that many students (and a bunch of faculty, staff) were forwarding their university email to their own @gmail.com account, because GMail was easier for them to use. But these same people just weren't aware that they were giving up their email. Not usually a problem for students, but it's a bigger deal for the university when staff and faculty do it. So it was very important when the university made arrangements with Google for our University GMail system. It's still GMail, you can still use the GMail web interface (or POP/IMAP), but we've taken care of the legal stuff on the back-end so the university retains ownership and is protected.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>God , I wish my university would do this .
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments .
Sure , you can forward it all to gmail ( and who does n't ) [ ... ] I thought I 'd point out something that most students are unaware of : When you sign up for your own @ gmail.com account , you give up ownership of your email .
It 's in the use agreement.This is an important point , because when the university makes an agreement with Google , there 's a whole legal process behind it .
The university retains the ownership over the email ; Google is just the provider .
That 's how we did it at our university.Here 's the distinction : Did Google ( or Yahoo , or Microsoft , or any other webmail provider ) mess up and accidentally let someone else view your @ gmail.com account ?
Oops , too bad - but that was really Google 's data , not yours .
You can get angry at them , but you do n't really have any legal recourse .
But if Google makes that error for a contractual hosted customer ( like University GMail ) it 's Google 's problem , and there 's a legal process to go with it .
With the legal contractual stuff in there , the university has some protection.I work in central IT for a large university .
[ Disclaimer : I 'm not on the GMail team .
] We knew that many students ( and a bunch of faculty , staff ) were forwarding their university email to their own @ gmail.com account , because GMail was easier for them to use .
But these same people just were n't aware that they were giving up their email .
Not usually a problem for students , but it 's a bigger deal for the university when staff and faculty do it .
So it was very important when the university made arrangements with Google for our University GMail system .
It 's still GMail , you can still use the GMail web interface ( or POP/IMAP ) , but we 've taken care of the legal stuff on the back-end so the university retains ownership and is protected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God, I wish my university would do this.
We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.
Sure, you can forward it all to gmail (and who doesn't) [...]I thought I'd point out something that most students are unaware of: When you sign up for your own @gmail.com account, you give up ownership of your email.
It's in the use agreement.This is an important point, because when the university makes an agreement with Google, there's a whole legal process behind it.
The university retains the ownership over the email; Google is just the provider.
That's how we did it at our university.Here's the distinction: Did Google (or Yahoo, or Microsoft, or any other webmail provider) mess up and accidentally let someone else view your @gmail.com account?
Oops, too bad - but that was really Google's data, not yours.
You can get angry at them, but you don't really have any legal recourse.
But if Google makes that error for a contractual hosted customer (like University GMail) it's Google's problem, and there's a legal process to go with it.
With the legal contractual stuff in there, the university has some protection.I work in central IT for a large university.
[Disclaimer: I'm not on the GMail team.
] We knew that many students (and a bunch of faculty, staff) were forwarding their university email to their own @gmail.com account, because GMail was easier for them to use.
But these same people just weren't aware that they were giving up their email.
Not usually a problem for students, but it's a bigger deal for the university when staff and faculty do it.
So it was very important when the university made arrangements with Google for our University GMail system.
It's still GMail, you can still use the GMail web interface (or POP/IMAP), but we've taken care of the legal stuff on the back-end so the university retains ownership and is protected.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31128098</id>
	<title>It could be worse.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266085440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My university is switching to Live@edu.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My university is switching to Live @ edu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university is switching to Live@edu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126676</id>
	<title>Re:University IT thinks it's 1994</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266074100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.</i> <br> <br>Maybe the problem is with those sending the attachments. Especially if they are sending the same thing to multiple people at once...</htmltext>
<tokenext>We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments .
Maybe the problem is with those sending the attachments .
Especially if they are sending the same thing to multiple people at once.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have 40MB account limits and professors routinely send out 10MB worth of attachments.
Maybe the problem is with those sending the attachments.
Especially if they are sending the same thing to multiple people at once...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31132138</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1266078600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Kids your days...When I was at school, everyone used vi<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var/spool/mail/$USER</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kids your days...When I was at school , everyone used vi /var/spool/mail/ $ USER</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kids your days...When I was at school, everyone used vi /var/spool/mail/$USER</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130966</id>
	<title>They should ask SUNY Buffalo for tips</title>
	<author>sexybomber</author>
	<datestamp>1266064980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>SUNY Buffalo did the same thing starting this past August.  Oh Gods, it broke EVERYTHING.  The Law School in particular sends out torrents of daily emails, all of which go to different people, different classes, &amp;c.  When we switched to Gmail, every single one of the recipient lists had to be recreated by hand.  It took <i>two months</i>.  I, for one, wish Yale the best of luck in dealing with the shitstorm they're about to unleash.</htmltext>
<tokenext>SUNY Buffalo did the same thing starting this past August .
Oh Gods , it broke EVERYTHING .
The Law School in particular sends out torrents of daily emails , all of which go to different people , different classes , &amp;c. When we switched to Gmail , every single one of the recipient lists had to be recreated by hand .
It took two months .
I , for one , wish Yale the best of luck in dealing with the shitstorm they 're about to unleash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SUNY Buffalo did the same thing starting this past August.
Oh Gods, it broke EVERYTHING.
The Law School in particular sends out torrents of daily emails, all of which go to different people, different classes, &amp;c.  When we switched to Gmail, every single one of the recipient lists had to be recreated by hand.
It took two months.
I, for one, wish Yale the best of luck in dealing with the shitstorm they're about to unleash.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127868</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>dcollins</author>
	<datestamp>1266083640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"We have questions! We have questions! We have unanswered questions!"</p><p>This side always loses in any political fight against the side with <i>plans</i> and <i>actions</i>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" We have questions !
We have questions !
We have unanswered questions !
" This side always loses in any political fight against the side with plans and actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We have questions!
We have questions!
We have unanswered questions!
"This side always loses in any political fight against the side with plans and actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31142132</id>
	<title>Privacy Policies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266229620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The issue isn't that email is being outsourced, it is that people are forced to accept gmail's controversial terms of service. The reason they chose gmail over real providers, with real privacy policies, is that gmail is free. Yale is simply too cheap to pay for an email provider that protects the information Yale itself is responsible for. For instance email sent by faculty to students from a gmail account.<br>Can they even legally do this? Yale must have a privacy policy, and I surely hope it is incompatible with gmail's privacy policy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue is n't that email is being outsourced , it is that people are forced to accept gmail 's controversial terms of service .
The reason they chose gmail over real providers , with real privacy policies , is that gmail is free .
Yale is simply too cheap to pay for an email provider that protects the information Yale itself is responsible for .
For instance email sent by faculty to students from a gmail account.Can they even legally do this ?
Yale must have a privacy policy , and I surely hope it is incompatible with gmail 's privacy policy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue isn't that email is being outsourced, it is that people are forced to accept gmail's controversial terms of service.
The reason they chose gmail over real providers, with real privacy policies, is that gmail is free.
Yale is simply too cheap to pay for an email provider that protects the information Yale itself is responsible for.
For instance email sent by faculty to students from a gmail account.Can they even legally do this?
Yale must have a privacy policy, and I surely hope it is incompatible with gmail's privacy policy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126606</id>
	<title>short sighted</title>
	<author>e**(i pi)-1</author>
	<datestamp>1266073320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is a bad idea to hand over email responsibilities to an external
company:

<ul>
<li>A university email is often used as a verification that a person is
  affiliated with the place. This is useful for example for site licences.</li>
<li> Google could change privacy settings in the future. Imagine that
  external parties could buy lists of "names" or "grades".</li>
<li> Once hooked, it is difficult to switch back. Once, the IT
  culture has been outsourced, also the IT talent has disappeared
  and higher education becomes dependent on external companies.</li>
<li> There is a lot of research and confidential information going over email.
  If I were a researcher working in a cutting edge field, I would be
  worried to have information about the projects safe.</li>
<li> Google delivers now. Will it in 10 years? What happens if
  Sergey and Larry have moved on completely and  accountants eying primarily the stock market have taken
  over? It might become more expensive for a university in the future.  Or, due to lack
  of other possibilities, one is forced to accept a partner which is less
  careful about privacy settings.</li>
<li> A lot of students and faculty already use gmail now. But they do not
  have to. If somebody wants, it is possible to have all benefits from
  external email providers. Why force it?</li>
<li> Some redundancy is nice. Its can be beneficial to have different email addresses
  and use them for different things. If one provider does not deliver, one can use an other one.
 Being forced to use an external email provider  leave less options and adds more dependencies.</li>
</ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a bad idea to hand over email responsibilities to an external company : A university email is often used as a verification that a person is affiliated with the place .
This is useful for example for site licences .
Google could change privacy settings in the future .
Imagine that external parties could buy lists of " names " or " grades " .
Once hooked , it is difficult to switch back .
Once , the IT culture has been outsourced , also the IT talent has disappeared and higher education becomes dependent on external companies .
There is a lot of research and confidential information going over email .
If I were a researcher working in a cutting edge field , I would be worried to have information about the projects safe .
Google delivers now .
Will it in 10 years ?
What happens if Sergey and Larry have moved on completely and accountants eying primarily the stock market have taken over ?
It might become more expensive for a university in the future .
Or , due to lack of other possibilities , one is forced to accept a partner which is less careful about privacy settings .
A lot of students and faculty already use gmail now .
But they do not have to .
If somebody wants , it is possible to have all benefits from external email providers .
Why force it ?
Some redundancy is nice .
Its can be beneficial to have different email addresses and use them for different things .
If one provider does not deliver , one can use an other one .
Being forced to use an external email provider leave less options and adds more dependencies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a bad idea to hand over email responsibilities to an external
company:


A university email is often used as a verification that a person is
  affiliated with the place.
This is useful for example for site licences.
Google could change privacy settings in the future.
Imagine that
  external parties could buy lists of "names" or "grades".
Once hooked, it is difficult to switch back.
Once, the IT
  culture has been outsourced, also the IT talent has disappeared
  and higher education becomes dependent on external companies.
There is a lot of research and confidential information going over email.
If I were a researcher working in a cutting edge field, I would be
  worried to have information about the projects safe.
Google delivers now.
Will it in 10 years?
What happens if
  Sergey and Larry have moved on completely and  accountants eying primarily the stock market have taken
  over?
It might become more expensive for a university in the future.
Or, due to lack
  of other possibilities, one is forced to accept a partner which is less
  careful about privacy settings.
A lot of students and faculty already use gmail now.
But they do not
  have to.
If somebody wants, it is possible to have all benefits from
  external email providers.
Why force it?
Some redundancy is nice.
Its can be beneficial to have different email addresses
  and use them for different things.
If one provider does not deliver, one can use an other one.
Being forced to use an external email provider  leave less options and adds more dependencies.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31127510</id>
	<title>easy solution</title>
	<author>buddyglass</author>
	<datestamp>1266080940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Figure out the "real cost" of maintaining a separate, local mail system in addition to Gmail.  Hardware, software, maintenance, and the salaries and benefits of any staff needed just to maintain the local system.  Then give people the option of using the local one instead of gmail, and charge them their share of the total cost minus whatever Google is charging per Gmail account.   Since most people will go with Gmail, the local accounts will likely end up being absurdly expensive.  But if you REALLY want one, its there for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Figure out the " real cost " of maintaining a separate , local mail system in addition to Gmail .
Hardware , software , maintenance , and the salaries and benefits of any staff needed just to maintain the local system .
Then give people the option of using the local one instead of gmail , and charge them their share of the total cost minus whatever Google is charging per Gmail account .
Since most people will go with Gmail , the local accounts will likely end up being absurdly expensive .
But if you REALLY want one , its there for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Figure out the "real cost" of maintaining a separate, local mail system in addition to Gmail.
Hardware, software, maintenance, and the salaries and benefits of any staff needed just to maintain the local system.
Then give people the option of using the local one instead of gmail, and charge them their share of the total cost minus whatever Google is charging per Gmail account.
Since most people will go with Gmail, the local accounts will likely end up being absurdly expensive.
But if you REALLY want one, its there for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131766</id>
	<title>University of Minnesota switching, too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266073680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The University of Minnesota is moving all their e-mail over to Google as well.  The push from the top doesn't seem to take into account that some faculty, staff, and students DO NOT WANT their e-mail going to Google.  The plans are a joke; you can see them at <a href="http://www.oit.umn.edu/google-initiative/" title="umn.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.oit.umn.edu/google-initiative/</a> [umn.edu].  The way it's being handled is like it's somebody's MBA project or something, not like something that's really being done for the benefit of the U.  If you know staff there talk to them about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The University of Minnesota is moving all their e-mail over to Google as well .
The push from the top does n't seem to take into account that some faculty , staff , and students DO NOT WANT their e-mail going to Google .
The plans are a joke ; you can see them at http : //www.oit.umn.edu/google-initiative/ [ umn.edu ] .
The way it 's being handled is like it 's somebody 's MBA project or something , not like something that 's really being done for the benefit of the U. If you know staff there talk to them about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The University of Minnesota is moving all their e-mail over to Google as well.
The push from the top doesn't seem to take into account that some faculty, staff, and students DO NOT WANT their e-mail going to Google.
The plans are a joke; you can see them at http://www.oit.umn.edu/google-initiative/ [umn.edu].
The way it's being handled is like it's somebody's MBA project or something, not like something that's really being done for the benefit of the U.  If you know staff there talk to them about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126462</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to "gov"mail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266071880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As to the Skull and Bones thing, I know its not very "geek" to be into the whole fraternity scene, but Skull and Bones is probably just a much less Democratic version of any Greek fraternity, including the one I was in.  In those types of organizations, they exist mainly on the basis that you don't keep secrets from your brothers, and I can assume that with a fraternity that boasts Senators, Presidents and CIA directors, not only are they well aware of what goes on with this type of deal, but that there is at least a gentlemen's agreement among them as to who can get at their little brother's data.<br><br>I don't think the Skull and Bones people need to be worried, and if half the paranoid hype about them is true, then they probably don't give a rats ass about the privacy of anyone not in their clique.  Just sayin'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As to the Skull and Bones thing , I know its not very " geek " to be into the whole fraternity scene , but Skull and Bones is probably just a much less Democratic version of any Greek fraternity , including the one I was in .
In those types of organizations , they exist mainly on the basis that you do n't keep secrets from your brothers , and I can assume that with a fraternity that boasts Senators , Presidents and CIA directors , not only are they well aware of what goes on with this type of deal , but that there is at least a gentlemen 's agreement among them as to who can get at their little brother 's data.I do n't think the Skull and Bones people need to be worried , and if half the paranoid hype about them is true , then they probably do n't give a rats ass about the privacy of anyone not in their clique .
Just sayin' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As to the Skull and Bones thing, I know its not very "geek" to be into the whole fraternity scene, but Skull and Bones is probably just a much less Democratic version of any Greek fraternity, including the one I was in.
In those types of organizations, they exist mainly on the basis that you don't keep secrets from your brothers, and I can assume that with a fraternity that boasts Senators, Presidents and CIA directors, not only are they well aware of what goes on with this type of deal, but that there is at least a gentlemen's agreement among them as to who can get at their little brother's data.I don't think the Skull and Bones people need to be worried, and if half the paranoid hype about them is true, then they probably don't give a rats ass about the privacy of anyone not in their clique.
Just sayin'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126234</id>
	<title>Oh Yale, not Yale.</title>
	<author>Bottles</author>
	<datestamp>1266069660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A first I thought this was about the lock manufacturer.</p><p>Now a whole slew of lock-picking jokes are consigned to oblivion.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p><p>Even puns about keys.</p><p>Damn you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A first I thought this was about the lock manufacturer.Now a whole slew of lock-picking jokes are consigned to oblivion .
: ( Even puns about keys.Damn you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A first I thought this was about the lock manufacturer.Now a whole slew of lock-picking jokes are consigned to oblivion.
:(Even puns about keys.Damn you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31131276</id>
	<title>Re:reasons why gmail isn't the best idea</title>
	<author>Asdanf</author>
	<datestamp>1266068340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Citation needed.<p><div class="quote"><p> they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisers</p></div><p>Find me any example of a time Google sold information to advertisers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Citation needed .
they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisersFind me any example of a time Google sold information to advertisers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Citation needed.
they are mining your data for useful stuff to sell to advertisersFind me any example of a time Google sold information to advertisers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126920</id>
	<title>Re:News flash: you'll never make everyone happy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266076320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3: It's a tax write off.  They are donating services/products.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3 : It 's a tax write off .
They are donating services/products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3: It's a tax write off.
They are donating services/products.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31126418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_13_0556252.31130304</id>
	<title>They swich due to trash like Groupwise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266058980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at NC State and we have Groupshit. It is the worst piece of email software on the face of the planet. Everything from it's user interface, management interface, inability to allow outside users to email groups, and so on and so on and so on. Add to the fact that most administrators won't even let you setup an IMAP connection and if THEY DO... it's laggy, and a piece of shit.</p><p>This is said from working with 7 seperate instances of groupwise email server, the latest being our campus wide MANDATORY switch. The ncsu helpdesk had to ADD three new help reps to help with the influx of trouble calls.</p><p>However, NCSU recently put all Students on Gmail. Out of 14,753 trouble calls (that I can see) in NCSU's helpdesk system in the past 6 months 99\% are groupwise, with over 1400 unresolved issues.</p><p>The benefits to organizations that want to use Gmail are INCREDIBLY tempting.</p><p>1) No managed Hardware<br>2) No staff<br>3) Redunancy out the wazzu<br>4) Connect how YOU WANT. Not using some mail client (groupwise) that won't work if you have thunderbird or outlook EVEN INSTALLED LET ALONE OPEN.<br>5) Integration with a calendar<br>6) Tons of groups and the business interface allows groups people can email to.<br>7) Web interface is simple and easy to use.<br>8) Built in spam protection</p><p>The point is... Google offers business solutions that not only meet data retention requirements of government agencies, but have 99\% uptime, and allow people to use their email how they want to FROM WHEREVER they want to.</p><p>As a side note... so far in the past 6 months I've had these problems with groupwise<br>1) Forwarding error resulting in over 300,000 emails in my inbox which took the admins almost 3 weeks to clean up.<br>2) 34 missed calendar events and 100+ emails that never got there until 2 months later where I was slammed with all of these at the same time. No clue where they've been.<br>3) Client crashing on a standard XP install (nothing special) almost 10 times a day.</p><p>This is why Gmail is a godsend. It removes the retards from control.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at NC State and we have Groupshit .
It is the worst piece of email software on the face of the planet .
Everything from it 's user interface , management interface , inability to allow outside users to email groups , and so on and so on and so on .
Add to the fact that most administrators wo n't even let you setup an IMAP connection and if THEY DO... it 's laggy , and a piece of shit.This is said from working with 7 seperate instances of groupwise email server , the latest being our campus wide MANDATORY switch .
The ncsu helpdesk had to ADD three new help reps to help with the influx of trouble calls.However , NCSU recently put all Students on Gmail .
Out of 14,753 trouble calls ( that I can see ) in NCSU 's helpdesk system in the past 6 months 99 \ % are groupwise , with over 1400 unresolved issues.The benefits to organizations that want to use Gmail are INCREDIBLY tempting.1 ) No managed Hardware2 ) No staff3 ) Redunancy out the wazzu4 ) Connect how YOU WANT .
Not using some mail client ( groupwise ) that wo n't work if you have thunderbird or outlook EVEN INSTALLED LET ALONE OPEN.5 ) Integration with a calendar6 ) Tons of groups and the business interface allows groups people can email to.7 ) Web interface is simple and easy to use.8 ) Built in spam protectionThe point is... Google offers business solutions that not only meet data retention requirements of government agencies , but have 99 \ % uptime , and allow people to use their email how they want to FROM WHEREVER they want to.As a side note... so far in the past 6 months I 've had these problems with groupwise1 ) Forwarding error resulting in over 300,000 emails in my inbox which took the admins almost 3 weeks to clean up.2 ) 34 missed calendar events and 100 + emails that never got there until 2 months later where I was slammed with all of these at the same time .
No clue where they 've been.3 ) Client crashing on a standard XP install ( nothing special ) almost 10 times a day.This is why Gmail is a godsend .
It removes the retards from control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at NC State and we have Groupshit.
It is the worst piece of email software on the face of the planet.
Everything from it's user interface, management interface, inability to allow outside users to email groups, and so on and so on and so on.
Add to the fact that most administrators won't even let you setup an IMAP connection and if THEY DO... it's laggy, and a piece of shit.This is said from working with 7 seperate instances of groupwise email server, the latest being our campus wide MANDATORY switch.
The ncsu helpdesk had to ADD three new help reps to help with the influx of trouble calls.However, NCSU recently put all Students on Gmail.
Out of 14,753 trouble calls (that I can see) in NCSU's helpdesk system in the past 6 months 99\% are groupwise, with over 1400 unresolved issues.The benefits to organizations that want to use Gmail are INCREDIBLY tempting.1) No managed Hardware2) No staff3) Redunancy out the wazzu4) Connect how YOU WANT.
Not using some mail client (groupwise) that won't work if you have thunderbird or outlook EVEN INSTALLED LET ALONE OPEN.5) Integration with a calendar6) Tons of groups and the business interface allows groups people can email to.7) Web interface is simple and easy to use.8) Built in spam protectionThe point is... Google offers business solutions that not only meet data retention requirements of government agencies, but have 99\% uptime, and allow people to use their email how they want to FROM WHEREVER they want to.As a side note... so far in the past 6 months I've had these problems with groupwise1) Forwarding error resulting in over 300,000 emails in my inbox which took the admins almost 3 weeks to clean up.2) 34 missed calendar events and 100+ emails that never got there until 2 months later where I was slammed with all of these at the same time.
No clue where they've been.3) Client crashing on a standard XP install (nothing special) almost 10 times a day.This is why Gmail is a godsend.
It removes the retards from control.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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