<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_09_1435230</id>
	<title>Space Shuttle Spy Gets 15 Years</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1265729040000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>goG writes <i>"A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for <a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20100208/us-engineer-gets-15y-spying-china.htm">hoarding sensitive information about the US space shuttle</a> with the <a href="http://politics.slashdot.org/story/08/02/11/239202/Space-Shuttle-Secrets-Stolen-For-China">intent of giving it to China</a>. US District Judge Cormac Carney called Chung's crimes a matter of national security, saying he had committed a breach against the trust Boeing and the country had placed in him. Attorney Greg Staples said, 'The [People's Republic of China] is bent on stealing sensitive information from the United States and shows no sign of relenting. Only strong sentences offer any hope of dissuading others from helping the PRC get that technology.' Staples also 'noted in sentencing papers that Chung amassed a personal wealth of more than $3 million US while betraying his adopted country.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>goG writes " A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information about the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China .
US District Judge Cormac Carney called Chung 's crimes a matter of national security , saying he had committed a breach against the trust Boeing and the country had placed in him .
Attorney Greg Staples said , 'The [ People 's Republic of China ] is bent on stealing sensitive information from the United States and shows no sign of relenting .
Only strong sentences offer any hope of dissuading others from helping the PRC get that technology .
' Staples also 'noted in sentencing papers that Chung amassed a personal wealth of more than $ 3 million US while betraying his adopted country .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>goG writes "A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information about the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China.
US District Judge Cormac Carney called Chung's crimes a matter of national security, saying he had committed a breach against the trust Boeing and the country had placed in him.
Attorney Greg Staples said, 'The [People's Republic of China] is bent on stealing sensitive information from the United States and shows no sign of relenting.
Only strong sentences offer any hope of dissuading others from helping the PRC get that technology.
' Staples also 'noted in sentencing papers that Chung amassed a personal wealth of more than $3 million US while betraying his adopted country.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073662</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>nospam007</author>
	<datestamp>1265737440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>40 year old tech for computer with 4Kbyte Memory (processors only available on EBay even for NASA) that's not spying, that's Fanboy Archeology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>40 year old tech for computer with 4Kbyte Memory ( processors only available on EBay even for NASA ) that 's not spying , that 's Fanboy Archeology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>40 year old tech for computer with 4Kbyte Memory (processors only available on EBay even for NASA) that's not spying, that's Fanboy Archeology.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074218</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265739420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an Asian living in the USA I'd like to add a few things...</p><p>The thing I remember most about trowing up in a mixed middle class part of S. Florida was the racism from other kids (not all from white, it was about equal from black, white non-Jewish, Jewish and Latin groups).  The Asians were always the smallest group though, so they seemed to get it a lot worse. For one, it was perfectly fine for other groups to use racial slurs against Asians but not against African-American or Jewish groups. Forget it if you were White non-Jewish, because anyone could say anything and it was dismissed.  In my own experience, all groups were equally racist.</p><p>As an honors student, I socialized with many kids in the honors classes. These were primarily Jewish, Asian and White non-Jewish. For all the talk about anti-semitism, the Jewish students were often the most racist against African-American and Semitic non-Jewish people. African-American students seemed equally racist, but they were a lot more vocal about it. White non-Jewish/non-Hispanic were as vocal as African-American students, but not when African-American students were around.  I didn't associate with Latin/Hispanic students much (language barrier), but I remember the Black/Hispanic arguments and a few fights.</p><p>Asians, of course, are extremely xenophobic. They made distinctions amongst themselves ("mainland Chinese" versus Filipino versus Vietnamese, etc.). They completely distrusted most African-Americans. They thought white Americans were dumb (though they emulated them most).  I think, in overall attitude, that Asians in my school were closest to the Jewish students.</p><p>In all, I think that people living in the US start to associate more with somewhat arbitrary racial groups than any other country. I.e., in some other countries your financial status is more important than your "race". In others (Latin countries), the common language defines your social group. In others, it's religion or profession.</p><p>Anyway, these are all just perceptions. High school was twenty years ago for me. I know that stereotypes influenced my perception of other racial and social groups as much as anything, and what we did as teenagers is not necessarily how we act as adults, but it takes a great deal of discipline to not let these stereotypes color our adult actions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an Asian living in the USA I 'd like to add a few things...The thing I remember most about trowing up in a mixed middle class part of S. Florida was the racism from other kids ( not all from white , it was about equal from black , white non-Jewish , Jewish and Latin groups ) .
The Asians were always the smallest group though , so they seemed to get it a lot worse .
For one , it was perfectly fine for other groups to use racial slurs against Asians but not against African-American or Jewish groups .
Forget it if you were White non-Jewish , because anyone could say anything and it was dismissed .
In my own experience , all groups were equally racist.As an honors student , I socialized with many kids in the honors classes .
These were primarily Jewish , Asian and White non-Jewish .
For all the talk about anti-semitism , the Jewish students were often the most racist against African-American and Semitic non-Jewish people .
African-American students seemed equally racist , but they were a lot more vocal about it .
White non-Jewish/non-Hispanic were as vocal as African-American students , but not when African-American students were around .
I did n't associate with Latin/Hispanic students much ( language barrier ) , but I remember the Black/Hispanic arguments and a few fights.Asians , of course , are extremely xenophobic .
They made distinctions amongst themselves ( " mainland Chinese " versus Filipino versus Vietnamese , etc. ) .
They completely distrusted most African-Americans .
They thought white Americans were dumb ( though they emulated them most ) .
I think , in overall attitude , that Asians in my school were closest to the Jewish students.In all , I think that people living in the US start to associate more with somewhat arbitrary racial groups than any other country .
I.e. , in some other countries your financial status is more important than your " race " .
In others ( Latin countries ) , the common language defines your social group .
In others , it 's religion or profession.Anyway , these are all just perceptions .
High school was twenty years ago for me .
I know that stereotypes influenced my perception of other racial and social groups as much as anything , and what we did as teenagers is not necessarily how we act as adults , but it takes a great deal of discipline to not let these stereotypes color our adult actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an Asian living in the USA I'd like to add a few things...The thing I remember most about trowing up in a mixed middle class part of S. Florida was the racism from other kids (not all from white, it was about equal from black, white non-Jewish, Jewish and Latin groups).
The Asians were always the smallest group though, so they seemed to get it a lot worse.
For one, it was perfectly fine for other groups to use racial slurs against Asians but not against African-American or Jewish groups.
Forget it if you were White non-Jewish, because anyone could say anything and it was dismissed.
In my own experience, all groups were equally racist.As an honors student, I socialized with many kids in the honors classes.
These were primarily Jewish, Asian and White non-Jewish.
For all the talk about anti-semitism, the Jewish students were often the most racist against African-American and Semitic non-Jewish people.
African-American students seemed equally racist, but they were a lot more vocal about it.
White non-Jewish/non-Hispanic were as vocal as African-American students, but not when African-American students were around.
I didn't associate with Latin/Hispanic students much (language barrier), but I remember the Black/Hispanic arguments and a few fights.Asians, of course, are extremely xenophobic.
They made distinctions amongst themselves ("mainland Chinese" versus Filipino versus Vietnamese, etc.).
They completely distrusted most African-Americans.
They thought white Americans were dumb (though they emulated them most).
I think, in overall attitude, that Asians in my school were closest to the Jewish students.In all, I think that people living in the US start to associate more with somewhat arbitrary racial groups than any other country.
I.e., in some other countries your financial status is more important than your "race".
In others (Latin countries), the common language defines your social group.
In others, it's religion or profession.Anyway, these are all just perceptions.
High school was twenty years ago for me.
I know that stereotypes influenced my perception of other racial and social groups as much as anything, and what we did as teenagers is not necessarily how we act as adults, but it takes a great deal of discipline to not let these stereotypes color our adult actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076078</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265745960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're being a little naive yes, but not completely.</p><p>The government outsources sensitive projects all the time, because the brightest minds don't work for government salaries / under government rule. They work in the private sector where they make bank as a contractor for doing the same objective: under their own rule.</p><p>Particularly the US places huge trust in the aerospace industry, and the defense industry.</p><p>The reality is that the US government doesn't have the agency it needs to do what you suggest it should do. DARPA is a funding agency, it has independent R&amp;D but its not the skunkworks techno-thrillers make it out to be. Actually - the Navy has a decent R&amp;D agency lately but its still not the private sector.</p><p>But yes - things that ideally should not be outsourced for the sake of national security, are frequently outsourced because otherwise they wouldn't be researched in the first place. Perhaps the most frightening prospect in the whole issue though is that 'smart people have no nationality' - they know how to espouse loyalty and see the value in living under a strong, stable economy - but they are fairweather fans.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're being a little naive yes , but not completely.The government outsources sensitive projects all the time , because the brightest minds do n't work for government salaries / under government rule .
They work in the private sector where they make bank as a contractor for doing the same objective : under their own rule.Particularly the US places huge trust in the aerospace industry , and the defense industry.The reality is that the US government does n't have the agency it needs to do what you suggest it should do .
DARPA is a funding agency , it has independent R&amp;D but its not the skunkworks techno-thrillers make it out to be .
Actually - the Navy has a decent R&amp;D agency lately but its still not the private sector.But yes - things that ideally should not be outsourced for the sake of national security , are frequently outsourced because otherwise they would n't be researched in the first place .
Perhaps the most frightening prospect in the whole issue though is that 'smart people have no nationality ' - they know how to espouse loyalty and see the value in living under a strong , stable economy - but they are fairweather fans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're being a little naive yes, but not completely.The government outsources sensitive projects all the time, because the brightest minds don't work for government salaries / under government rule.
They work in the private sector where they make bank as a contractor for doing the same objective: under their own rule.Particularly the US places huge trust in the aerospace industry, and the defense industry.The reality is that the US government doesn't have the agency it needs to do what you suggest it should do.
DARPA is a funding agency, it has independent R&amp;D but its not the skunkworks techno-thrillers make it out to be.
Actually - the Navy has a decent R&amp;D agency lately but its still not the private sector.But yes - things that ideally should not be outsourced for the sake of national security, are frequently outsourced because otherwise they wouldn't be researched in the first place.
Perhaps the most frightening prospect in the whole issue though is that 'smart people have no nationality' - they know how to espouse loyalty and see the value in living under a strong, stable economy - but they are fairweather fans.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075586</id>
	<title>Re:Promoting their agenda using others' advances.</title>
	<author>sabt-pestnu</author>
	<datestamp>1265744460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.</p></div><p>I'd really rather they didn't.  I only just last week got my living room harmoniously arranged.  Do you know how much those <a href="http://www.fengshuidirectory.com/" title="fengshuidirectory.com">consultants</a> [fengshuidirectory.com] cost?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let the culture which reveres " ancient wisdom " prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.I 'd really rather they did n't .
I only just last week got my living room harmoniously arranged .
Do you know how much those consultants [ fengshuidirectory.com ] cost ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.I'd really rather they didn't.
I only just last week got my living room harmoniously arranged.
Do you know how much those consultants [fengshuidirectory.com] cost?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073206</id>
	<title>funny whole bit- a chronology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265735940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A) google whines it was chinese govt , later we find out theres no proof of that<br>B) we get ironically tha new york times ( think hollywood) go on about a hacker for hire<br>C) then a shut down of a large hacker site( you think hackers were framed? by a paid hollywood shill I DO )<br>D) we get this affair and the guy was nothing more then a pack rat. HE should have known better however thats his crime.<br>they even say he never gave any sensitive data out. SEEMS to me like pick on chinese month.<br>E) we continue to have ACA undemocratically tabled and moving forward IN SECRET.<br>F) ACTA will make all democracies non democracies and make them more like china.<br>is this coincidence?<br>G) seems that BS corporations said about changing china by investing into them was a nice lie wasn't it.</p><p>lets have a list of all companies that do business with the commies.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A ) google whines it was chinese govt , later we find out theres no proof of thatB ) we get ironically tha new york times ( think hollywood ) go on about a hacker for hireC ) then a shut down of a large hacker site ( you think hackers were framed ?
by a paid hollywood shill I DO ) D ) we get this affair and the guy was nothing more then a pack rat .
HE should have known better however thats his crime.they even say he never gave any sensitive data out .
SEEMS to me like pick on chinese month.E ) we continue to have ACA undemocratically tabled and moving forward IN SECRET.F ) ACTA will make all democracies non democracies and make them more like china.is this coincidence ? G ) seems that BS corporations said about changing china by investing into them was a nice lie was n't it.lets have a list of all companies that do business with the commies.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A) google whines it was chinese govt , later we find out theres no proof of thatB) we get ironically tha new york times ( think hollywood) go on about a hacker for hireC) then a shut down of a large hacker site( you think hackers were framed?
by a paid hollywood shill I DO )D) we get this affair and the guy was nothing more then a pack rat.
HE should have known better however thats his crime.they even say he never gave any sensitive data out.
SEEMS to me like pick on chinese month.E) we continue to have ACA undemocratically tabled and moving forward IN SECRET.F) ACTA will make all democracies non democracies and make them more like china.is this coincidence?G) seems that BS corporations said about changing china by investing into them was a nice lie wasn't it.lets have a list of all companies that do business with the commies.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31085266</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265037960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, how they dare to get information of a spaceship you were anyway going to scrap away in a corner? The fucking communist pig probably was thinking about making manned space travel possible, too!!</p><p>That's why we are fucking stuck at this rock, because of attitudes like that one. And because of bankers. And paranoia. But mainly it's a matter of attitude.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , how they dare to get information of a spaceship you were anyway going to scrap away in a corner ?
The fucking communist pig probably was thinking about making manned space travel possible , too !
! That 's why we are fucking stuck at this rock , because of attitudes like that one .
And because of bankers .
And paranoia .
But mainly it 's a matter of attitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, how they dare to get information of a spaceship you were anyway going to scrap away in a corner?
The fucking communist pig probably was thinking about making manned space travel possible, too!
!That's why we are fucking stuck at this rock, because of attitudes like that one.
And because of bankers.
And paranoia.
But mainly it's a matter of attitude.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074114</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>malloc</author>
	<datestamp>1265739060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter. In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population?</p></div><p>I know many Chinese immigrants in Toronto.  A few of them came for idealogical/freedom issues, but by far the vast majority came for simple economic/status gain (status, since immigrating to a foreign country is generally seen back home as a step up).  For the economic immigrants I'm regularly shocked at how much the "history" they were indoctrinated as kids they still believe.  E.g. despite having access to tons of historical reference, or South Koreans themselves, they still believe the the Korean war was an unabashed/unprovoked all-out assault on the poor Korean people (i.e. communists in North) by the evil Western nations.  This is still believed with such vehemency that they would refuse to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day (which in Canada remembers soldiers in all wars, including WW1, WW2, Korean,...) and are surprised that my wife, also a Chinese immigrant, would do so.</p><p>When you think about it, they're saying never mind the sacrifice of all those in WW2 that forced the Japanese to stop raping our country (Oh right, because foreigners didn't, it was glorious Mao that kicked the Japanese out!), the atrocities of the evil Korean invasion are too great, so no Remembrance Day for anyone.</p><p>The mind, it boggles.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter .
In short , in today 's world , what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population ? I know many Chinese immigrants in Toronto .
A few of them came for idealogical/freedom issues , but by far the vast majority came for simple economic/status gain ( status , since immigrating to a foreign country is generally seen back home as a step up ) .
For the economic immigrants I 'm regularly shocked at how much the " history " they were indoctrinated as kids they still believe .
E.g. despite having access to tons of historical reference , or South Koreans themselves , they still believe the the Korean war was an unabashed/unprovoked all-out assault on the poor Korean people ( i.e .
communists in North ) by the evil Western nations .
This is still believed with such vehemency that they would refuse to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day ( which in Canada remembers soldiers in all wars , including WW1 , WW2 , Korean,... ) and are surprised that my wife , also a Chinese immigrant , would do so.When you think about it , they 're saying never mind the sacrifice of all those in WW2 that forced the Japanese to stop raping our country ( Oh right , because foreigners did n't , it was glorious Mao that kicked the Japanese out !
) , the atrocities of the evil Korean invasion are too great , so no Remembrance Day for anyone.The mind , it boggles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter.
In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population?I know many Chinese immigrants in Toronto.
A few of them came for idealogical/freedom issues, but by far the vast majority came for simple economic/status gain (status, since immigrating to a foreign country is generally seen back home as a step up).
For the economic immigrants I'm regularly shocked at how much the "history" they were indoctrinated as kids they still believe.
E.g. despite having access to tons of historical reference, or South Koreans themselves, they still believe the the Korean war was an unabashed/unprovoked all-out assault on the poor Korean people (i.e.
communists in North) by the evil Western nations.
This is still believed with such vehemency that they would refuse to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day (which in Canada remembers soldiers in all wars, including WW1, WW2, Korean,...) and are surprised that my wife, also a Chinese immigrant, would do so.When you think about it, they're saying never mind the sacrifice of all those in WW2 that forced the Japanese to stop raping our country (Oh right, because foreigners didn't, it was glorious Mao that kicked the Japanese out!
), the atrocities of the evil Korean invasion are too great, so no Remembrance Day for anyone.The mind, it boggles.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076582</id>
	<title>Re:This will not stop spying</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1265747880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>He would be given a million dollars and treated as a hero there. THAT is what you want to do?
Yeah, please do not throw me in the briar patch.<br> <br>
But we SHOULD sanction the Chinese gov. These are active spies since this is a cold war with us. We are insane for allowing this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He would be given a million dollars and treated as a hero there .
THAT is what you want to do ?
Yeah , please do not throw me in the briar patch .
But we SHOULD sanction the Chinese gov .
These are active spies since this is a cold war with us .
We are insane for allowing this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He would be given a million dollars and treated as a hero there.
THAT is what you want to do?
Yeah, please do not throw me in the briar patch.
But we SHOULD sanction the Chinese gov.
These are active spies since this is a cold war with us.
We are insane for allowing this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076244</id>
	<title>I (indirectly) work for BOEING.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265746500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To be precise, I work for an outsourced metal fab company, that works with digital part models created by BOEING.</p><p>(It should be obvious why I am posting as an AC)</p><p>I get to see fully articulated models of "Export controlled" military aircraft components, and accurate digital representations of military aircraft skins. (They are NURBS models, in case you were wondering, so they are accurate to the mathematically ideal level, which means you could derive radar profiles from the models if you were truly interested in doing so.)</p><p>All I would need to "Steal" this information is a USB pen drive, and some time.</p><p>Bureaucrats like to pretend that there are checks and balances in place to prevent this kind of data theft, but as far as I can tell, these checks and balances boil down to:</p><p>1) you must be a native born US citizen to review these documents</p><p>2) If you try this, you will probably go to jail.</p><p>3) Your odds of getting such cushy employment again (in the US) is pretty much guaranteed to be zero to 1.</p><p>otherwise, I could have half the damn BOEING MMA's (Multi Mission Aircraft-- essentially a highly versatile light bomber with cargo and troop transport capabilities; A modified 373. That much is public knowledge.) structural details in my personal possession by now.</p><p>Personally, I consider the "Chinese agent gets shuttle plans" to be a "So what, so do hundreds, if not thousands of other supply house workers."</p><p>The real story here, is why was a chinese national permitted in the engineering section? He should have failed the "native born" requirement for candidacy.</p><p>If you ask me, the BEST way to steal this information is to send a plant disguised as a poorly educated janitor.</p><p>Janitors have keys to every room in the building so that they can do their job. (emptying trash bins, sweeping floors, and cleaning toilets.)</p><p>All that would be required would be for them to wait until one of the engineering staff forgot to log off their terminal all the way (I have caught at least 3 repeat offenders in our own engineering department guilty of this crime), then "borrow" their session for a few hours while they replicated the agency's structural model repository onto an external USB hard drive. After that, you just place it into a harddrive archive case, wrap it in protective foam, and ship it off to your contact. Probably in the same night, using overnight air.</p><p>Doing this on second shift would be a cakewalk.</p><p>Finding a janitor that is disgruntled enough, and has sufficient tech savvy to pull this kind of stunt is pretty trivial as well.  I know of at least one candidate right off; he's a friend of mine who is the janitor-man for a city hall in another state. He has MORE than enough technical savvy to pull it off. (He is a fellow technology enthusiast.)</p><p>Any boasting from the industrial giants that there are security protocols in place is not thinking things through the weakest link principle of security vantage point.  As far as I can tell, this information might as well be public on the internet for all the security protection I see.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To be precise , I work for an outsourced metal fab company , that works with digital part models created by BOEING .
( It should be obvious why I am posting as an AC ) I get to see fully articulated models of " Export controlled " military aircraft components , and accurate digital representations of military aircraft skins .
( They are NURBS models , in case you were wondering , so they are accurate to the mathematically ideal level , which means you could derive radar profiles from the models if you were truly interested in doing so .
) All I would need to " Steal " this information is a USB pen drive , and some time.Bureaucrats like to pretend that there are checks and balances in place to prevent this kind of data theft , but as far as I can tell , these checks and balances boil down to : 1 ) you must be a native born US citizen to review these documents2 ) If you try this , you will probably go to jail.3 ) Your odds of getting such cushy employment again ( in the US ) is pretty much guaranteed to be zero to 1.otherwise , I could have half the damn BOEING MMA 's ( Multi Mission Aircraft-- essentially a highly versatile light bomber with cargo and troop transport capabilities ; A modified 373 .
That much is public knowledge .
) structural details in my personal possession by now.Personally , I consider the " Chinese agent gets shuttle plans " to be a " So what , so do hundreds , if not thousands of other supply house workers .
" The real story here , is why was a chinese national permitted in the engineering section ?
He should have failed the " native born " requirement for candidacy.If you ask me , the BEST way to steal this information is to send a plant disguised as a poorly educated janitor.Janitors have keys to every room in the building so that they can do their job .
( emptying trash bins , sweeping floors , and cleaning toilets .
) All that would be required would be for them to wait until one of the engineering staff forgot to log off their terminal all the way ( I have caught at least 3 repeat offenders in our own engineering department guilty of this crime ) , then " borrow " their session for a few hours while they replicated the agency 's structural model repository onto an external USB hard drive .
After that , you just place it into a harddrive archive case , wrap it in protective foam , and ship it off to your contact .
Probably in the same night , using overnight air.Doing this on second shift would be a cakewalk.Finding a janitor that is disgruntled enough , and has sufficient tech savvy to pull this kind of stunt is pretty trivial as well .
I know of at least one candidate right off ; he 's a friend of mine who is the janitor-man for a city hall in another state .
He has MORE than enough technical savvy to pull it off .
( He is a fellow technology enthusiast .
) Any boasting from the industrial giants that there are security protocols in place is not thinking things through the weakest link principle of security vantage point .
As far as I can tell , this information might as well be public on the internet for all the security protection I see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be precise, I work for an outsourced metal fab company, that works with digital part models created by BOEING.
(It should be obvious why I am posting as an AC)I get to see fully articulated models of "Export controlled" military aircraft components, and accurate digital representations of military aircraft skins.
(They are NURBS models, in case you were wondering, so they are accurate to the mathematically ideal level, which means you could derive radar profiles from the models if you were truly interested in doing so.
)All I would need to "Steal" this information is a USB pen drive, and some time.Bureaucrats like to pretend that there are checks and balances in place to prevent this kind of data theft, but as far as I can tell, these checks and balances boil down to:1) you must be a native born US citizen to review these documents2) If you try this, you will probably go to jail.3) Your odds of getting such cushy employment again (in the US) is pretty much guaranteed to be zero to 1.otherwise, I could have half the damn BOEING MMA's (Multi Mission Aircraft-- essentially a highly versatile light bomber with cargo and troop transport capabilities; A modified 373.
That much is public knowledge.
) structural details in my personal possession by now.Personally, I consider the "Chinese agent gets shuttle plans" to be a "So what, so do hundreds, if not thousands of other supply house workers.
"The real story here, is why was a chinese national permitted in the engineering section?
He should have failed the "native born" requirement for candidacy.If you ask me, the BEST way to steal this information is to send a plant disguised as a poorly educated janitor.Janitors have keys to every room in the building so that they can do their job.
(emptying trash bins, sweeping floors, and cleaning toilets.
)All that would be required would be for them to wait until one of the engineering staff forgot to log off their terminal all the way (I have caught at least 3 repeat offenders in our own engineering department guilty of this crime), then "borrow" their session for a few hours while they replicated the agency's structural model repository onto an external USB hard drive.
After that, you just place it into a harddrive archive case, wrap it in protective foam, and ship it off to your contact.
Probably in the same night, using overnight air.Doing this on second shift would be a cakewalk.Finding a janitor that is disgruntled enough, and has sufficient tech savvy to pull this kind of stunt is pretty trivial as well.
I know of at least one candidate right off; he's a friend of mine who is the janitor-man for a city hall in another state.
He has MORE than enough technical savvy to pull it off.
(He is a fellow technology enthusiast.
)Any boasting from the industrial giants that there are security protocols in place is not thinking things through the weakest link principle of security vantage point.
As far as I can tell, this information might as well be public on the internet for all the security protection I see.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31080386</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265721840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, not so much that the two are conflated, but in many countries (non-N/C/S America) culture, society and country are all closely linked. Many European and Asian countries are/were built on ethno-cultural nationalism (Italy, Korea, France etc.) This is the one place where the US distinguishes itself by saying there is a difference between nationality and culture, and not having an all-encompassing "national culture".</p><p>Bottom line: in many countries, national pride and cultural pride are considered to be the same thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , not so much that the two are conflated , but in many countries ( non-N/C/S America ) culture , society and country are all closely linked .
Many European and Asian countries are/were built on ethno-cultural nationalism ( Italy , Korea , France etc .
) This is the one place where the US distinguishes itself by saying there is a difference between nationality and culture , and not having an all-encompassing " national culture " .Bottom line : in many countries , national pride and cultural pride are considered to be the same thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, not so much that the two are conflated, but in many countries (non-N/C/S America) culture, society and country are all closely linked.
Many European and Asian countries are/were built on ethno-cultural nationalism (Italy, Korea, France etc.
) This is the one place where the US distinguishes itself by saying there is a difference between nationality and culture, and not having an all-encompassing "national culture".Bottom line: in many countries, national pride and cultural pride are considered to be the same thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072652</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>When will people realize that China is keeping its currency value low and attracting manufacturing jobs to its land to slowly accumulate wealth and technology and once it is in strong enough position will call back on its debt and consume what it produces itself to raise its own peoples standard of living and eventually push us to the sideline.  China is spending money on its future, we are spending money from the future. Globalization only benefits all when countries work as equals, protectionism is not the way to go but we need to ensure that American companies and Chinese companies are working on even footing.  Just seriously propose that we stop importing unless fair labor standards are enforced and if not then cut off access to our markets but we would rather have a dozen tube socks for a dollar.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When will people realize that China is keeping its currency value low and attracting manufacturing jobs to its land to slowly accumulate wealth and technology and once it is in strong enough position will call back on its debt and consume what it produces itself to raise its own peoples standard of living and eventually push us to the sideline .
China is spending money on its future , we are spending money from the future .
Globalization only benefits all when countries work as equals , protectionism is not the way to go but we need to ensure that American companies and Chinese companies are working on even footing .
Just seriously propose that we stop importing unless fair labor standards are enforced and if not then cut off access to our markets but we would rather have a dozen tube socks for a dollar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When will people realize that China is keeping its currency value low and attracting manufacturing jobs to its land to slowly accumulate wealth and technology and once it is in strong enough position will call back on its debt and consume what it produces itself to raise its own peoples standard of living and eventually push us to the sideline.
China is spending money on its future, we are spending money from the future.
Globalization only benefits all when countries work as equals, protectionism is not the way to go but we need to ensure that American companies and Chinese companies are working on even footing.
Just seriously propose that we stop importing unless fair labor standards are enforced and if not then cut off access to our markets but we would rather have a dozen tube socks for a dollar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072918</id>
	<title>Web 2.0 why not Cold War 2.0</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1265734860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahh nothing gets a people's mind off their own corruption and failing nation like a good old fashion cold war.</p><p>People are easily united against a common foe.</p><p>Nothing like calling up China and saying, "Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy. Wanna play the bad guy for a generation or two?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahh nothing gets a people 's mind off their own corruption and failing nation like a good old fashion cold war.People are easily united against a common foe.Nothing like calling up China and saying , " Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy .
Wan na play the bad guy for a generation or two ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahh nothing gets a people's mind off their own corruption and failing nation like a good old fashion cold war.People are easily united against a common foe.Nothing like calling up China and saying, "Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy.
Wanna play the bad guy for a generation or two?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31080452</id>
	<title>Re:Promoting their agenda using others' advances.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265722260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean the tech and geniuses that the USA plundered from the Nazis?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean the tech and geniuses that the USA plundered from the Nazis ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean the tech and geniuses that the USA plundered from the Nazis?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31082400</id>
	<title>Re:Jsut make it open</title>
	<author>zemblue</author>
	<datestamp>1265740920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I concur, it is in the best interests for all governments to co-operate in all areas of research.

We have larger problems to worry about than keeping secrets from each other.

They already are, the media just doesn't seem to be able to make it clear to us.

Plus, he was framed and is innocent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I concur , it is in the best interests for all governments to co-operate in all areas of research .
We have larger problems to worry about than keeping secrets from each other .
They already are , the media just does n't seem to be able to make it clear to us .
Plus , he was framed and is innocent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I concur, it is in the best interests for all governments to co-operate in all areas of research.
We have larger problems to worry about than keeping secrets from each other.
They already are, the media just doesn't seem to be able to make it clear to us.
Plus, he was framed and is innocent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073362</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265736600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your impression is somewhat incorrect. Most immigrants are concerned about both their country of origin and their adoptive homeland. You can't expect immigrants to suddenly stop caring about where they come from. Your perception that they seem to side with the origin country has more to do with the fact that they have a more complete perspective on certain situations and therefore might side with a party that you, as someone with a purely western perspective might not expect. </p><p>Part of what I mean by that is that in western thought I find that there is often a convenient mental trick utilized to ease discomfort when dealing with international events. Specifically, I'm talking about the discreet separation of people from government. It allows Americans to dissociate themselves from the actions of their governments, and it allows many western to believe that criticism of China can somehow be specifically directed at the government.</p><p>Take the events you brought up as example:</p><p>In the spy plane case, this should be fairly easy to understand. We have a US spy plane outside Chinese airspace spying on China. Consider that in reverse... could a US citizen really accept that the spy plane is an act against his/her government and not his/her country? I know some of you believe that the reverse case is different because the US citizen is more intimately involved with the US government, but this ignores that ultimately the Chinese government is still made up of Chinese people and though it might not fit in your views, the CCP is made up of citizens as well. The CCP does in fact have "grassroots", and the relatively recent historical significance of the party to the countries history does tie them strongly to its people.</p><p>In the Tibet case, I had access to reports from both perspective, and whether or not the reporting was accurate, I think that many westerners did end up with an incomplete understanding. I believe that partially has to do with the fact that Tibet and Tibetans are romanticized in the west, and consequently it was difficult to believe that they could riot violently. Remember that Ghandi wasn't the only one involved in the Indian independence movement; there were less peaceful men involved as well. Most in the west are satisfied with hollow words of support for the Dhalai Lama and maybe an occasional donation, and largely don't care enough to understand the history or the situation. To Chinese people, that event involved ethnic Han being violently killed or assaulted by Tibetans. Some in China, and probably most Chinese in foreign countries, do understand the historical context somewhat (meaning that they do know of the Tibetan grievances), but that doesn't make them any less sympathetic to the Han that were victims of the violence. So of course they were pissed with coverage that largely focused on the government's reaction rather than the rioters themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your impression is somewhat incorrect .
Most immigrants are concerned about both their country of origin and their adoptive homeland .
You ca n't expect immigrants to suddenly stop caring about where they come from .
Your perception that they seem to side with the origin country has more to do with the fact that they have a more complete perspective on certain situations and therefore might side with a party that you , as someone with a purely western perspective might not expect .
Part of what I mean by that is that in western thought I find that there is often a convenient mental trick utilized to ease discomfort when dealing with international events .
Specifically , I 'm talking about the discreet separation of people from government .
It allows Americans to dissociate themselves from the actions of their governments , and it allows many western to believe that criticism of China can somehow be specifically directed at the government.Take the events you brought up as example : In the spy plane case , this should be fairly easy to understand .
We have a US spy plane outside Chinese airspace spying on China .
Consider that in reverse... could a US citizen really accept that the spy plane is an act against his/her government and not his/her country ?
I know some of you believe that the reverse case is different because the US citizen is more intimately involved with the US government , but this ignores that ultimately the Chinese government is still made up of Chinese people and though it might not fit in your views , the CCP is made up of citizens as well .
The CCP does in fact have " grassroots " , and the relatively recent historical significance of the party to the countries history does tie them strongly to its people.In the Tibet case , I had access to reports from both perspective , and whether or not the reporting was accurate , I think that many westerners did end up with an incomplete understanding .
I believe that partially has to do with the fact that Tibet and Tibetans are romanticized in the west , and consequently it was difficult to believe that they could riot violently .
Remember that Ghandi was n't the only one involved in the Indian independence movement ; there were less peaceful men involved as well .
Most in the west are satisfied with hollow words of support for the Dhalai Lama and maybe an occasional donation , and largely do n't care enough to understand the history or the situation .
To Chinese people , that event involved ethnic Han being violently killed or assaulted by Tibetans .
Some in China , and probably most Chinese in foreign countries , do understand the historical context somewhat ( meaning that they do know of the Tibetan grievances ) , but that does n't make them any less sympathetic to the Han that were victims of the violence .
So of course they were pissed with coverage that largely focused on the government 's reaction rather than the rioters themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your impression is somewhat incorrect.
Most immigrants are concerned about both their country of origin and their adoptive homeland.
You can't expect immigrants to suddenly stop caring about where they come from.
Your perception that they seem to side with the origin country has more to do with the fact that they have a more complete perspective on certain situations and therefore might side with a party that you, as someone with a purely western perspective might not expect.
Part of what I mean by that is that in western thought I find that there is often a convenient mental trick utilized to ease discomfort when dealing with international events.
Specifically, I'm talking about the discreet separation of people from government.
It allows Americans to dissociate themselves from the actions of their governments, and it allows many western to believe that criticism of China can somehow be specifically directed at the government.Take the events you brought up as example:In the spy plane case, this should be fairly easy to understand.
We have a US spy plane outside Chinese airspace spying on China.
Consider that in reverse... could a US citizen really accept that the spy plane is an act against his/her government and not his/her country?
I know some of you believe that the reverse case is different because the US citizen is more intimately involved with the US government, but this ignores that ultimately the Chinese government is still made up of Chinese people and though it might not fit in your views, the CCP is made up of citizens as well.
The CCP does in fact have "grassroots", and the relatively recent historical significance of the party to the countries history does tie them strongly to its people.In the Tibet case, I had access to reports from both perspective, and whether or not the reporting was accurate, I think that many westerners did end up with an incomplete understanding.
I believe that partially has to do with the fact that Tibet and Tibetans are romanticized in the west, and consequently it was difficult to believe that they could riot violently.
Remember that Ghandi wasn't the only one involved in the Indian independence movement; there were less peaceful men involved as well.
Most in the west are satisfied with hollow words of support for the Dhalai Lama and maybe an occasional donation, and largely don't care enough to understand the history or the situation.
To Chinese people, that event involved ethnic Han being violently killed or assaulted by Tibetans.
Some in China, and probably most Chinese in foreign countries, do understand the historical context somewhat (meaning that they do know of the Tibetan grievances), but that doesn't make them any less sympathetic to the Han that were victims of the violence.
So of course they were pissed with coverage that largely focused on the government's reaction rather than the rioters themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074740</id>
	<title>China's Motto</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265741580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your not cheating your not trying<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... apparently that is true of the government too.  Hey, lets stop buying their immoral cheap junk.  Outside of voting your wallet, China doesn't care what we think anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your not cheating your not trying ... apparently that is true of the government too .
Hey , lets stop buying their immoral cheap junk .
Outside of voting your wallet , China does n't care what we think anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your not cheating your not trying ... apparently that is true of the government too.
Hey, lets stop buying their immoral cheap junk.
Outside of voting your wallet, China doesn't care what we think anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073452</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>lxs</author>
	<datestamp>1265736840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never kill a spy. If you kill a spy you can't turn him or trade him for one of your own.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never kill a spy .
If you kill a spy you ca n't turn him or trade him for one of your own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never kill a spy.
If you kill a spy you can't turn him or trade him for one of your own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075466</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>IronChef</author>
	<datestamp>1265743980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm glad you didn't get modded down, it's worth discussing.</p><p>My experience is a little different. I used to know many Taiwanese and on the few occasions when this sort of thing came up, I got the impression that they had some real investment in the USA.</p><p>I knew a Taiwanese shop keeper that was open 365 days a year. He once told me, "On American holidays, I am Chinese. On Chinese holidays, I am American." He seemed to genuinely love his new country and took citizenship seriously.</p><p>It just depends on the specific people and how the culture of the area shaped up, I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm glad you did n't get modded down , it 's worth discussing.My experience is a little different .
I used to know many Taiwanese and on the few occasions when this sort of thing came up , I got the impression that they had some real investment in the USA.I knew a Taiwanese shop keeper that was open 365 days a year .
He once told me , " On American holidays , I am Chinese .
On Chinese holidays , I am American .
" He seemed to genuinely love his new country and took citizenship seriously.It just depends on the specific people and how the culture of the area shaped up , I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm glad you didn't get modded down, it's worth discussing.My experience is a little different.
I used to know many Taiwanese and on the few occasions when this sort of thing came up, I got the impression that they had some real investment in the USA.I knew a Taiwanese shop keeper that was open 365 days a year.
He once told me, "On American holidays, I am Chinese.
On Chinese holidays, I am American.
" He seemed to genuinely love his new country and took citizenship seriously.It just depends on the specific people and how the culture of the area shaped up, I guess.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>ph1ll</author>
	<datestamp>1265734920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The death sentence for "economic espionage" [from TFA]?
<p>
That seems a bit harsh....
</p><p>
As I understand it, the guy was working for Boeing - which is not the same thing as working for the government. Sure, it was on an outsourced government project. But if the information really were that essential to national security, why the f--- would you outsource it?
</p><p>
(Or am I being somewhat naive about the "military industrial complex" bogeyman, where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous...?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The death sentence for " economic espionage " [ from TFA ] ?
That seems a bit harsh... . As I understand it , the guy was working for Boeing - which is not the same thing as working for the government .
Sure , it was on an outsourced government project .
But if the information really were that essential to national security , why the f--- would you outsource it ?
( Or am I being somewhat naive about the " military industrial complex " bogeyman , where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous... ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The death sentence for "economic espionage" [from TFA]?
That seems a bit harsh....

As I understand it, the guy was working for Boeing - which is not the same thing as working for the government.
Sure, it was on an outsourced government project.
But if the information really were that essential to national security, why the f--- would you outsource it?
(Or am I being somewhat naive about the "military industrial complex" bogeyman, where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous...?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073568</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265737140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's <i>seventy-four</i>. Yeah, he's sure got a long and luxurious life ahead of him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's seventy-four .
Yeah , he 's sure got a long and luxurious life ahead of him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's seventy-four.
Yeah, he's sure got a long and luxurious life ahead of him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31077606</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>dbcad7</author>
	<datestamp>1265708820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For a little perspective, I try and imagine myself becoming an expat in another country.. If the country I moved to had a beef with my old country, I would take some interest, and I might have a little perspective on how my former country thinks.. I don't see a problem with that, however actively taking sides against my new country would be wrong.. I don't think there is anything wrong with immigrants maintaining an interest in their old country or providing their views on political situations.. I do however have a problem with flag waving.. It chaps my hide to no end to see an American citizen or illegal immigrant waving some other countries flag in a protest in the country they are living in.. It in fact, turns me against whatever cause they are fighting for no matter if it's just or right, because it makes me want to round em up, load em up on a bus, and drop them and their flag in the country the flag represents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For a little perspective , I try and imagine myself becoming an expat in another country.. If the country I moved to had a beef with my old country , I would take some interest , and I might have a little perspective on how my former country thinks.. I do n't see a problem with that , however actively taking sides against my new country would be wrong.. I do n't think there is anything wrong with immigrants maintaining an interest in their old country or providing their views on political situations.. I do however have a problem with flag waving.. It chaps my hide to no end to see an American citizen or illegal immigrant waving some other countries flag in a protest in the country they are living in.. It in fact , turns me against whatever cause they are fighting for no matter if it 's just or right , because it makes me want to round em up , load em up on a bus , and drop them and their flag in the country the flag represents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For a little perspective, I try and imagine myself becoming an expat in another country.. If the country I moved to had a beef with my old country, I would take some interest, and I might have a little perspective on how my former country thinks.. I don't see a problem with that, however actively taking sides against my new country would be wrong.. I don't think there is anything wrong with immigrants maintaining an interest in their old country or providing their views on political situations.. I do however have a problem with flag waving.. It chaps my hide to no end to see an American citizen or illegal immigrant waving some other countries flag in a protest in the country they are living in.. It in fact, turns me against whatever cause they are fighting for no matter if it's just or right, because it makes me want to round em up, load em up on a bus, and drop them and their flag in the country the flag represents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076454</id>
	<title>Bravo!</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1265747460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the best, one sentence global economic over view I have read. "China is spending money on its future, we are spending money from the future."</p><p>
&nbsp; Nailed it. And I don't blame them for doing that, because our own domestic economic traitors handed that opportunity to them on a silver platter, the Chinese would have been 'tards to turn it down. It was completely logical what they did and are still doing, building up their own nation, "protecting" themselves, adding to their real economy, etc. Of course they would take that deal, free stuff. And how it happened is we let those wall street pirates and bribed off politicians cook this whole scheme up, then they hard sold it all over, to great success, they sold that con and got most to "believe" in it, and now they are extorting trillions in bailouts on top of that. *Extorting*.</p><p>The Chinese guy is sort of a spy, I'm not all that concerned about him because I imagine he is merely one of tens of thousands in a similar (barely hidden) tech transfer situation. Because that's been the business of the US since they started this con job, transfer as much manufacturing tech as possible.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The real economic and security damage has been from the short term mega profits crowd who destroyed, in a single generation, sold it off cheap for a fat skim, what it took multiple generations to build up in the US, all that wealth creation manufacturing infrastructure, all of it, from A to Z. All those value added jobs..all mostly poofed now, so multi millionaires could become billionaires and another flock of corrupt politicians could get re-re-re elected, so they could keep accepting more bribe money, all the time spouting off all these economic and social promises to the US people that they <i>knew in advance could never be met</i>. And they are still doing it, and tons of people asre still falling for that noise.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; They sold this global wealth transference con with massive credit expansion, got almost everyone faked out that credit=produced wealth, like it is the same thing. Something to keep the peons amused while their bank accounts, retirement savings, etc all got evaporated away, and will continue to evaporate away.</p><p>On a small scale they call it corporate raiding. A hostile take over, sell off all the assets cheap, gut the workforce, etc. Massive short term profits are the result, wall street loves it, politicians love it, they all get rewarded for their "hard work" of gutting companies, then they bail out with golden parachutes, leaving a company in mostly name only. Everyone has seen this happen and knows exactly what that is.</p><p>
&nbsp; But do <i>the exact same thing</i> on an entire national scale, all of a sudden there's this mass blindfold gets slapped on, people *refuse* to see the situation for what it is, go into complete denial over it, claim it is something other than that.  We are supposed to believe these national scale wall street/ DC politician corporate raiders that what they are doing isn't corporate raiding. They just call it something else and say it is a "good deal".</p><p>
&nbsp; They have been saying that for near 25 years now, and if it WAS such a good deal, why all the recent economic meltdown? Could it be, that manufacturing really is the big kahuna when it comes to creating real wealth, and not phony IOU and credit crap so called "wealth"? I say yes, it is. And we let them crooks sell it off cheap for their fat middleman skims, now we are seriously hosed, and are borrowing against our future generations, which is a pure bogus abomination, we should have never had to do that. It wasn't necessary until we let them sell off/transfer all that good tech and generations of hard work and massive investment in R&amp;D.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the best , one sentence global economic over view I have read .
" China is spending money on its future , we are spending money from the future .
"   Nailed it .
And I do n't blame them for doing that , because our own domestic economic traitors handed that opportunity to them on a silver platter , the Chinese would have been 'tards to turn it down .
It was completely logical what they did and are still doing , building up their own nation , " protecting " themselves , adding to their real economy , etc .
Of course they would take that deal , free stuff .
And how it happened is we let those wall street pirates and bribed off politicians cook this whole scheme up , then they hard sold it all over , to great success , they sold that con and got most to " believe " in it , and now they are extorting trillions in bailouts on top of that .
* Extorting * .The Chinese guy is sort of a spy , I 'm not all that concerned about him because I imagine he is merely one of tens of thousands in a similar ( barely hidden ) tech transfer situation .
Because that 's been the business of the US since they started this con job , transfer as much manufacturing tech as possible .
    The real economic and security damage has been from the short term mega profits crowd who destroyed , in a single generation , sold it off cheap for a fat skim , what it took multiple generations to build up in the US , all that wealth creation manufacturing infrastructure , all of it , from A to Z. All those value added jobs..all mostly poofed now , so multi millionaires could become billionaires and another flock of corrupt politicians could get re-re-re elected , so they could keep accepting more bribe money , all the time spouting off all these economic and social promises to the US people that they knew in advance could never be met .
And they are still doing it , and tons of people asre still falling for that noise .
    They sold this global wealth transference con with massive credit expansion , got almost everyone faked out that credit = produced wealth , like it is the same thing .
Something to keep the peons amused while their bank accounts , retirement savings , etc all got evaporated away , and will continue to evaporate away.On a small scale they call it corporate raiding .
A hostile take over , sell off all the assets cheap , gut the workforce , etc .
Massive short term profits are the result , wall street loves it , politicians love it , they all get rewarded for their " hard work " of gutting companies , then they bail out with golden parachutes , leaving a company in mostly name only .
Everyone has seen this happen and knows exactly what that is .
  But do the exact same thing on an entire national scale , all of a sudden there 's this mass blindfold gets slapped on , people * refuse * to see the situation for what it is , go into complete denial over it , claim it is something other than that .
We are supposed to believe these national scale wall street/ DC politician corporate raiders that what they are doing is n't corporate raiding .
They just call it something else and say it is a " good deal " .
  They have been saying that for near 25 years now , and if it WAS such a good deal , why all the recent economic meltdown ?
Could it be , that manufacturing really is the big kahuna when it comes to creating real wealth , and not phony IOU and credit crap so called " wealth " ?
I say yes , it is .
And we let them crooks sell it off cheap for their fat middleman skims , now we are seriously hosed , and are borrowing against our future generations , which is a pure bogus abomination , we should have never had to do that .
It was n't necessary until we let them sell off/transfer all that good tech and generations of hard work and massive investment in R&amp;D .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the best, one sentence global economic over view I have read.
"China is spending money on its future, we are spending money from the future.
"
  Nailed it.
And I don't blame them for doing that, because our own domestic economic traitors handed that opportunity to them on a silver platter, the Chinese would have been 'tards to turn it down.
It was completely logical what they did and are still doing, building up their own nation, "protecting" themselves, adding to their real economy, etc.
Of course they would take that deal, free stuff.
And how it happened is we let those wall street pirates and bribed off politicians cook this whole scheme up, then they hard sold it all over, to great success, they sold that con and got most to "believe" in it, and now they are extorting trillions in bailouts on top of that.
*Extorting*.The Chinese guy is sort of a spy, I'm not all that concerned about him because I imagine he is merely one of tens of thousands in a similar (barely hidden) tech transfer situation.
Because that's been the business of the US since they started this con job, transfer as much manufacturing tech as possible.
    The real economic and security damage has been from the short term mega profits crowd who destroyed, in a single generation, sold it off cheap for a fat skim, what it took multiple generations to build up in the US, all that wealth creation manufacturing infrastructure, all of it, from A to Z. All those value added jobs..all mostly poofed now, so multi millionaires could become billionaires and another flock of corrupt politicians could get re-re-re elected, so they could keep accepting more bribe money, all the time spouting off all these economic and social promises to the US people that they knew in advance could never be met.
And they are still doing it, and tons of people asre still falling for that noise.
    They sold this global wealth transference con with massive credit expansion, got almost everyone faked out that credit=produced wealth, like it is the same thing.
Something to keep the peons amused while their bank accounts, retirement savings, etc all got evaporated away, and will continue to evaporate away.On a small scale they call it corporate raiding.
A hostile take over, sell off all the assets cheap, gut the workforce, etc.
Massive short term profits are the result, wall street loves it, politicians love it, they all get rewarded for their "hard work" of gutting companies, then they bail out with golden parachutes, leaving a company in mostly name only.
Everyone has seen this happen and knows exactly what that is.
  But do the exact same thing on an entire national scale, all of a sudden there's this mass blindfold gets slapped on, people *refuse* to see the situation for what it is, go into complete denial over it, claim it is something other than that.
We are supposed to believe these national scale wall street/ DC politician corporate raiders that what they are doing isn't corporate raiding.
They just call it something else and say it is a "good deal".
  They have been saying that for near 25 years now, and if it WAS such a good deal, why all the recent economic meltdown?
Could it be, that manufacturing really is the big kahuna when it comes to creating real wealth, and not phony IOU and credit crap so called "wealth"?
I say yes, it is.
And we let them crooks sell it off cheap for their fat middleman skims, now we are seriously hosed, and are borrowing against our future generations, which is a pure bogus abomination, we should have never had to do that.
It wasn't necessary until we let them sell off/transfer all that good tech and generations of hard work and massive investment in R&amp;D.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</id>
	<title>Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1265733000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Letting China waste billions of dollars building one of those money sinks, plus $700 million per launch, would probably be the worst thing we could do to them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Letting China waste billions of dollars building one of those money sinks , plus $ 700 million per launch , would probably be the worst thing we could do to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Letting China waste billions of dollars building one of those money sinks, plus $700 million per launch, would probably be the worst thing we could do to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31085144</id>
	<title>Betrayed his adopted country...</title>
	<author>Demonoid-Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1265037420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>amassed a personal wealth of more than $3 million US while betraying his adopted country.</p></div><p>Sounds like he was living the American dream (get rich)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>amassed a personal wealth of more than $ 3 million US while betraying his adopted country.Sounds like he was living the American dream ( get rich )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>amassed a personal wealth of more than $3 million US while betraying his adopted country.Sounds like he was living the American dream (get rich)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31077264</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265707320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...but I've known quite a few Chinese Americans, both from<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>I'm sure both of these Chinese Americans take offense at being called "quite a few"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...but I 've known quite a few Chinese Americans , both from ...I 'm sure both of these Chinese Americans take offense at being called " quite a few " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...but I've known quite a few Chinese Americans, both from ...I'm sure both of these Chinese Americans take offense at being called "quite a few" ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31081872</id>
	<title>A Big Deal?</title>
	<author>Fnord666</author>
	<datestamp>1265734500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What's the big deal?  It's not like it was rocket science or anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's the big deal ?
It 's not like it was rocket science or anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's the big deal?
It's not like it was rocket science or anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072614</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't you know? We're at war with Eastasia, we've always been at war with Eastasia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't you know ?
We 're at war with Eastasia , we 've always been at war with Eastasia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't you know?
We're at war with Eastasia, we've always been at war with Eastasia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074386</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265740140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously you've never worked on a military contract in the private sector. It's considered treason to betray the project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously you 've never worked on a military contract in the private sector .
It 's considered treason to betray the project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously you've never worked on a military contract in the private sector.
It's considered treason to betray the project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075324</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265743500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The guy should be hanged by the neck until dead. He, like the politicians, are traitors and should not be given any mercy. Leave mercy to God.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The guy should be hanged by the neck until dead .
He , like the politicians , are traitors and should not be given any mercy .
Leave mercy to God .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guy should be hanged by the neck until dead.
He, like the politicians, are traitors and should not be given any mercy.
Leave mercy to God.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073506</id>
	<title>Let them have the secrets</title>
	<author>mdm-adph</author>
	<datestamp>1265736960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it'll help launch a new space race, I'm almost for letting them have it all.</p><p>I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild, like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something, completely blowing away anyone's expectations of what they're able to do, a la <i>2010</i>.</p><p><i>That'll</i> restart the space race.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 'll help launch a new space race , I 'm almost for letting them have it all.I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild , like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something , completely blowing away anyone 's expectations of what they 're able to do , a la 2010.That 'll restart the space race .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it'll help launch a new space race, I'm almost for letting them have it all.I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild, like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something, completely blowing away anyone's expectations of what they're able to do, a la 2010.That'll restart the space race.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074884</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265742120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the reduced sentence is part of a bargain the US government usually makes with a spy who's been caught, in exchange for information from them about who they're spying for and the extent of their spying.  it's not as showy as an execution, but it's often more pragmatic.  Robert Hanssen, the FBI agent who spied for the Soviets for years, was never executed  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_Hanssen</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the reduced sentence is part of a bargain the US government usually makes with a spy who 's been caught , in exchange for information from them about who they 're spying for and the extent of their spying .
it 's not as showy as an execution , but it 's often more pragmatic .
Robert Hanssen , the FBI agent who spied for the Soviets for years , was never executed http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert \ _Hanssen</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the reduced sentence is part of a bargain the US government usually makes with a spy who's been caught, in exchange for information from them about who they're spying for and the extent of their spying.
it's not as showy as an execution, but it's often more pragmatic.
Robert Hanssen, the FBI agent who spied for the Soviets for years, was never executed  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_Hanssen</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31082578</id>
	<title>Re:Concorde vs. Concordski</title>
	<author>zemblue</author>
	<datestamp>1265743920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The concorde program was stopped because it was nearly a spaceship; we were getting places really quickly.

Believe it or not - there are people who dont want humanity to progress.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The concorde program was stopped because it was nearly a spaceship ; we were getting places really quickly .
Believe it or not - there are people who dont want humanity to progress .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The concorde program was stopped because it was nearly a spaceship; we were getting places really quickly.
Believe it or not - there are people who dont want humanity to progress.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073448</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>mdm-adph</author>
	<datestamp>1265736780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because after years in a Chinese prison, I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because after years in a Chinese prison , I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because after years in a Chinese prison, I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072942</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265734980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government. It's like wondering why a Baptist is republican.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it 's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government .
It 's like wondering why a Baptist is republican .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government.
It's like wondering why a Baptist is republican.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072712</id>
	<title>It's only fair</title>
	<author>koan</author>
	<datestamp>1265734080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>George W Bush borrowed quite a bit of money from China to finance his war in Iraq, we are still borrowing money from China, why shouldn't they be able to take what they want from this country?  If you have an issue with what I have said then flip the roles and see what you think, then ask "Why are we borrowing money from China?"</p><p>Tough times are here and staying for a while, I would rather have tough times with little or no debt than tough times with massive debt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>George W Bush borrowed quite a bit of money from China to finance his war in Iraq , we are still borrowing money from China , why should n't they be able to take what they want from this country ?
If you have an issue with what I have said then flip the roles and see what you think , then ask " Why are we borrowing money from China ?
" Tough times are here and staying for a while , I would rather have tough times with little or no debt than tough times with massive debt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>George W Bush borrowed quite a bit of money from China to finance his war in Iraq, we are still borrowing money from China, why shouldn't they be able to take what they want from this country?
If you have an issue with what I have said then flip the roles and see what you think, then ask "Why are we borrowing money from China?
"Tough times are here and staying for a while, I would rather have tough times with little or no debt than tough times with massive debt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072792</id>
	<title>Re: Just make it open</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265734440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA( and the equivalent in every other country) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway.</p></div><p>While I agree with you in principle, where do we draw the line on defense-related technologies?  The technology used in the shuttle program, while dated, still has several potential military applications.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA ( and the equivalent in every other country ) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway.While I agree with you in principle , where do we draw the line on defense-related technologies ?
The technology used in the shuttle program , while dated , still has several potential military applications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA( and the equivalent in every other country) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway.While I agree with you in principle, where do we draw the line on defense-related technologies?
The technology used in the shuttle program, while dated, still has several potential military applications.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074676</id>
	<title>Science</title>
	<author>nawitus</author>
	<datestamp>1265741340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is anything about the Space Shuttle secret in any case? Space projects should be open to the public and there shouldn't be any secrets. If the technology is secret the human species won't get much utility out of that huge spending.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is anything about the Space Shuttle secret in any case ?
Space projects should be open to the public and there should n't be any secrets .
If the technology is secret the human species wo n't get much utility out of that huge spending .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is anything about the Space Shuttle secret in any case?
Space projects should be open to the public and there shouldn't be any secrets.
If the technology is secret the human species won't get much utility out of that huge spending.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076616</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265748060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Assuming the technology was covered under ITAR/EXPORT control, he was absolutely trafficking in government secrets, not just committing "economic espionage".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming the technology was covered under ITAR/EXPORT control , he was absolutely trafficking in government secrets , not just committing " economic espionage " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming the technology was covered under ITAR/EXPORT control, he was absolutely trafficking in government secrets, not just committing "economic espionage".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31080000</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1265719260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize.</p></div><p>Umm... no shit? I'm Canadian mate, but that one is just obvious.</p><p>Their airspace, so their fighter had the right to be there. The US government may not recognize it as theirs, (it was over the sea, right?) but the US government has a history of ignoring the borders of sovereign nations when it pleases them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001 , almost every Chinese person I knew , despite being US citizens , was adamant that the US should apologize.Umm... no shit ?
I 'm Canadian mate , but that one is just obvious.Their airspace , so their fighter had the right to be there .
The US government may not recognize it as theirs , ( it was over the sea , right ?
) but the US government has a history of ignoring the borders of sovereign nations when it pleases them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize.Umm... no shit?
I'm Canadian mate, but that one is just obvious.Their airspace, so their fighter had the right to be there.
The US government may not recognize it as theirs, (it was over the sea, right?
) but the US government has a history of ignoring the borders of sovereign nations when it pleases them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31082814</id>
	<title>Re:Jsut make it open</title>
	<author>r00t</author>
	<datestamp>1265056320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We wouldn't be getting as much info as we'd be giving away, even if we could trust other countries to abide by that sort of deal.</p><p>It's all defense-related anyway, when you consider how the state of the economy affects war. An impoverished USA can't afford the gear to protect allies like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We would n't be getting as much info as we 'd be giving away , even if we could trust other countries to abide by that sort of deal.It 's all defense-related anyway , when you consider how the state of the economy affects war .
An impoverished USA ca n't afford the gear to protect allies like Taiwan , South Korea , and Japan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We wouldn't be getting as much info as we'd be giving away, even if we could trust other countries to abide by that sort of deal.It's all defense-related anyway, when you consider how the state of the economy affects war.
An impoverished USA can't afford the gear to protect allies like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076354</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265746920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are many, many contractors that hold Top Secret clearances that work in a multitude of DoD agencies.</p><p>Just because they are contractors instead of govvies shouldn't make any difference in sentencing.  Suppose that he didn't work for anyone, and just magically obtained the documents and gave them to China.</p><p>It's still spying, it's still treason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many , many contractors that hold Top Secret clearances that work in a multitude of DoD agencies.Just because they are contractors instead of govvies should n't make any difference in sentencing .
Suppose that he did n't work for anyone , and just magically obtained the documents and gave them to China.It 's still spying , it 's still treason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many, many contractors that hold Top Secret clearances that work in a multitude of DoD agencies.Just because they are contractors instead of govvies shouldn't make any difference in sentencing.
Suppose that he didn't work for anyone, and just magically obtained the documents and gave them to China.It's still spying, it's still treason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072574</id>
	<title>the current shuttle?</title>
	<author>arbiter1</author>
	<datestamp>1265733540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If its the current one in use don't see the problem really, all the tech in it is like what 20 years old?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If its the current one in use do n't see the problem really , all the tech in it is like what 20 years old ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If its the current one in use don't see the problem really, all the tech in it is like what 20 years old?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073466</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Issarlk</author>
	<datestamp>1265736840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, let's kill him! That kind of guy could get the PRC in space, where they could do useful things that advance humanity!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , let 's kill him !
That kind of guy could get the PRC in space , where they could do useful things that advance humanity !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, let's kill him!
That kind of guy could get the PRC in space, where they could do useful things that advance humanity!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31077118</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>KermodeBear</author>
	<datestamp>1265706720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Accidently selected 'Overrated' moderation option, posting to remove my mistake. I wish Slashdot would let me change moderation selections. )o:</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Accidently selected 'Overrated ' moderation option , posting to remove my mistake .
I wish Slashdot would let me change moderation selections .
) o :</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Accidently selected 'Overrated' moderation option, posting to remove my mistake.
I wish Slashdot would let me change moderation selections.
)o:</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072750</id>
	<title>Re:Jsut make it open</title>
	<author>SirGarlon</author>
	<datestamp>1265734200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The space shuttle <em>is</em> defense related.  It's been used in about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_space\_shuttle\_missions" title="wikipedia.org">10 classified missions</a> [wikipedia.org], presumably having something to do with spy satellites.</p><p>Moreover I would speculate that the avionics systems, materials, high-pressure pumps, and other technology that went into the space shuttle would be both non-obvious and directly applicable to military aircraft and/or missiles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The space shuttle is defense related .
It 's been used in about 10 classified missions [ wikipedia.org ] , presumably having something to do with spy satellites.Moreover I would speculate that the avionics systems , materials , high-pressure pumps , and other technology that went into the space shuttle would be both non-obvious and directly applicable to military aircraft and/or missiles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The space shuttle is defense related.
It's been used in about 10 classified missions [wikipedia.org], presumably having something to do with spy satellites.Moreover I would speculate that the avionics systems, materials, high-pressure pumps, and other technology that went into the space shuttle would be both non-obvious and directly applicable to military aircraft and/or missiles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072580</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>guruevi</author>
	<datestamp>1265733600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really, the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy (later years) and initial research (earlier years). If the PRC doesn't have to do the research, that takes a big chunk away and then if the bureaucracy is replaced with a set of people that hardly get paid for the work, you save another few billions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really , the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy ( later years ) and initial research ( earlier years ) .
If the PRC does n't have to do the research , that takes a big chunk away and then if the bureaucracy is replaced with a set of people that hardly get paid for the work , you save another few billions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really, the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy (later years) and initial research (earlier years).
If the PRC doesn't have to do the research, that takes a big chunk away and then if the bureaucracy is replaced with a set of people that hardly get paid for the work, you save another few billions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075630</id>
	<title>Re:Let them have the plans</title>
	<author>rwv</author>
	<datestamp>1265744580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They don't have much of a budget anymore.</p></div><p>They don't have an Apollo/Cold War budget, but Obama's executive plan published last Monday calls for increasing the NASA budget to build-up a Commercially-viable space-worthy fleet that can cheaply take humans safely into LEO.  This is (IMO) better than setting a short-term Moon goal.

</p><p>The current Moon-plan is moth-balled... but NASA has been helping to fund multiple competing companies with their own test rocket launches since last year.  This is a good alternative to the dream of getting back to the Moon by 2020.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't have much of a budget anymore.They do n't have an Apollo/Cold War budget , but Obama 's executive plan published last Monday calls for increasing the NASA budget to build-up a Commercially-viable space-worthy fleet that can cheaply take humans safely into LEO .
This is ( IMO ) better than setting a short-term Moon goal .
The current Moon-plan is moth-balled... but NASA has been helping to fund multiple competing companies with their own test rocket launches since last year .
This is a good alternative to the dream of getting back to the Moon by 2020 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't have much of a budget anymore.They don't have an Apollo/Cold War budget, but Obama's executive plan published last Monday calls for increasing the NASA budget to build-up a Commercially-viable space-worthy fleet that can cheaply take humans safely into LEO.
This is (IMO) better than setting a short-term Moon goal.
The current Moon-plan is moth-balled... but NASA has been helping to fund multiple competing companies with their own test rocket launches since last year.
This is a good alternative to the dream of getting back to the Moon by 2020.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31112768</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1265989140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your at "war" and they are spying on your, why are they such a big trading partner? Why continue trade relations? I think you need to solve that elephant before moving on to mice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your at " war " and they are spying on your , why are they such a big trading partner ?
Why continue trade relations ?
I think you need to solve that elephant before moving on to mice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your at "war" and they are spying on your, why are they such a big trading partner?
Why continue trade relations?
I think you need to solve that elephant before moving on to mice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072708</id>
	<title>Promoting their agenda using others' advances.</title>
	<author>rdmiller3</author>
	<datestamp>1265734080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda.  Let them do so using their own advances, not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.</p><p>Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda .
Let them do so using their own advances , not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.Let the culture which reveres " ancient wisdom " prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda.
Let them do so using their own advances, not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072696</id>
	<title>What could possibly be new about the shuttle?</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1265734080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's interesting that as much as we Americans deride the terrible space shuttle, only the Russians were able to build anything like it, but only the Americans were ever able to operate one.</p><p>Kinda makes you wonder, that, if we are not going back to the moon, can we at least keep these shuttles flying, or gasp, build a more modern one. I mean, the whole point of the new NASA way is to perfect in orbit assembly, and it seems we're kinda doing that now with the space shuttle and...</p><p>maybe we just need to make a new space shuttle that can be boosted farther into deep space, if we need to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's interesting that as much as we Americans deride the terrible space shuttle , only the Russians were able to build anything like it , but only the Americans were ever able to operate one.Kinda makes you wonder , that , if we are not going back to the moon , can we at least keep these shuttles flying , or gasp , build a more modern one .
I mean , the whole point of the new NASA way is to perfect in orbit assembly , and it seems we 're kinda doing that now with the space shuttle and...maybe we just need to make a new space shuttle that can be boosted farther into deep space , if we need to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's interesting that as much as we Americans deride the terrible space shuttle, only the Russians were able to build anything like it, but only the Americans were ever able to operate one.Kinda makes you wonder, that, if we are not going back to the moon, can we at least keep these shuttles flying, or gasp, build a more modern one.
I mean, the whole point of the new NASA way is to perfect in orbit assembly, and it seems we're kinda doing that now with the space shuttle and...maybe we just need to make a new space shuttle that can be boosted farther into deep space, if we need to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076552</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1265747760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good, maybe they can improve on it. Nationalism has already kept our countries from cooperating on space ventures for far too long.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good , maybe they can improve on it .
Nationalism has already kept our countries from cooperating on space ventures for far too long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good, maybe they can improve on it.
Nationalism has already kept our countries from cooperating on space ventures for far too long.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31082376</id>
	<title>Re:Promoting their agenda using others' advances.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265740680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda.  Let them do so using their own advances, not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.</p><p>Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.</p></div><p>You're being retarded.  What has Chinese culture got to do with the Chinese Government.  There are many Chinese ethnic groups outside of China in many countries that still practices Chinese culture and has nothing to do with the Chinese Government.  As an example, the country of Singapore is predominantly Chinese whose forefathers came from China before the modern Chinese government you see today.  The generations of Chinese ethnic groups in this country have nothing to so with the Chinese government.  The country was formed by descendant of pre-world war 2 chinese migrants.</p><p>If you want to insult Chinese and the Chinese government, know the difference between the country, its citizens and the culture.  By Mocking the culture you're mocking all Chinese culture based countries that has no affiliation to China.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda .
Let them do so using their own advances , not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.Let the culture which reveres " ancient wisdom " prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.You 're being retarded .
What has Chinese culture got to do with the Chinese Government .
There are many Chinese ethnic groups outside of China in many countries that still practices Chinese culture and has nothing to do with the Chinese Government .
As an example , the country of Singapore is predominantly Chinese whose forefathers came from China before the modern Chinese government you see today .
The generations of Chinese ethnic groups in this country have nothing to so with the Chinese government .
The country was formed by descendant of pre-world war 2 chinese migrants.If you want to insult Chinese and the Chinese government , know the difference between the country , its citizens and the culture .
By Mocking the culture you 're mocking all Chinese culture based countries that has no affiliation to China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Chinese government wants to promote their own agenda.
Let them do so using their own advances, not by stealing the advances built by cultures which actually encourage advance.Let the culture which reveres "ancient wisdom" prove its value by using feng shui to launch their space vehicles.You're being retarded.
What has Chinese culture got to do with the Chinese Government.
There are many Chinese ethnic groups outside of China in many countries that still practices Chinese culture and has nothing to do with the Chinese Government.
As an example, the country of Singapore is predominantly Chinese whose forefathers came from China before the modern Chinese government you see today.
The generations of Chinese ethnic groups in this country have nothing to so with the Chinese government.
The country was formed by descendant of pre-world war 2 chinese migrants.If you want to insult Chinese and the Chinese government, know the difference between the country, its citizens and the culture.
By Mocking the culture you're mocking all Chinese culture based countries that has no affiliation to China.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</id>
	<title>Jsut make it open</title>
	<author>JustNiz</author>
	<datestamp>1265733660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA( and the equivalent in every other country) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA ( and the equivalent in every other country ) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion it would be a better for everyone if public-funded research bodies like NASA( and the equivalent in every other country) made their non defense-related information freely available to all anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31078480</id>
	<title>Re:Let them have the secrets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265712120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild, like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something, completely blowing away anyone's expectations of what they're able to do, a la 2010.</p></div><p>(Possible spoiler) Though given how things ultimately worked out for the Chinese in <i>2010</i>, let's hope for their sake they don't take that analogy *too* far.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild , like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something , completely blowing away anyone 's expectations of what they 're able to do , a la 2010 .
( Possible spoiler ) Though given how things ultimately worked out for the Chinese in 2010 , let 's hope for their sake they do n't take that analogy * too * far .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I want to see the Chinese do something completely wild, like launch an 180-day orbit mission to Mars or something, completely blowing away anyone's expectations of what they're able to do, a la 2010.
(Possible spoiler) Though given how things ultimately worked out for the Chinese in 2010, let's hope for their sake they don't take that analogy *too* far.
:-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073830</id>
	<title>Was there proof?</title>
	<author>bostei2008</author>
	<datestamp>1265737980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a real question:</p><p>Was there any proof for the allegations?</p><p>All I could take from the article was that he took lots of material home. I do not read anything about a proof for giving the information to China, or receiving money for it for that matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a real question : Was there any proof for the allegations ? All I could take from the article was that he took lots of material home .
I do not read anything about a proof for giving the information to China , or receiving money for it for that matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a real question:Was there any proof for the allegations?All I could take from the article was that he took lots of material home.
I do not read anything about a proof for giving the information to China, or receiving money for it for that matter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076578</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265747880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have it backwards. Seriously.</p><p>China gets USD for trinkets and stuff it sells to US. These USD, in the end, can only be used to buy stuff in the US. So, China buys T-Bills are these only thing they could buy. China cannot really buy stuff with these USD. If they start to do so, it would kill treasuries resulting in high interest rates.</p><p>Chinese currency is tied to USD. China cannot just use their USD holdings (except buying T-bills) without killing their own currency and their own economy.</p><p>US doesn't borrow money from China. China bought US debt as that is the only thing they can do without shooting themselves in the foot. US doesn't go to China and say "buy our debt". China comes to US and say "can we buy your debt". See the difference?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have it backwards .
Seriously.China gets USD for trinkets and stuff it sells to US .
These USD , in the end , can only be used to buy stuff in the US .
So , China buys T-Bills are these only thing they could buy .
China can not really buy stuff with these USD .
If they start to do so , it would kill treasuries resulting in high interest rates.Chinese currency is tied to USD .
China can not just use their USD holdings ( except buying T-bills ) without killing their own currency and their own economy.US does n't borrow money from China .
China bought US debt as that is the only thing they can do without shooting themselves in the foot .
US does n't go to China and say " buy our debt " .
China comes to US and say " can we buy your debt " .
See the difference ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have it backwards.
Seriously.China gets USD for trinkets and stuff it sells to US.
These USD, in the end, can only be used to buy stuff in the US.
So, China buys T-Bills are these only thing they could buy.
China cannot really buy stuff with these USD.
If they start to do so, it would kill treasuries resulting in high interest rates.Chinese currency is tied to USD.
China cannot just use their USD holdings (except buying T-bills) without killing their own currency and their own economy.US doesn't borrow money from China.
China bought US debt as that is the only thing they can do without shooting themselves in the foot.
US doesn't go to China and say "buy our debt".
China comes to US and say "can we buy your debt".
See the difference?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073588</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265737200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Careful, taking notice of reality is a thoughtcrime, didn't you know?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Careful , taking notice of reality is a thoughtcrime , did n't you know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Careful, taking notice of reality is a thoughtcrime, didn't you know?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073664</id>
	<title>Re:He got away with it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265737440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is exactly why we should go after his kids. They should be sitting it jail next to him, whether they did anything or not.</p><p>Sound unfair? This is EXACTLY how the United States treats drug dealers and other petty criminals. If someone skips bail, their family members are arrested. If they can't get the son, they go after the mother, etc. If they didn't do anything, they make things up (it's near-impossible to sue to police for false arrest).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is exactly why we should go after his kids .
They should be sitting it jail next to him , whether they did anything or not.Sound unfair ?
This is EXACTLY how the United States treats drug dealers and other petty criminals .
If someone skips bail , their family members are arrested .
If they ca n't get the son , they go after the mother , etc .
If they did n't do anything , they make things up ( it 's near-impossible to sue to police for false arrest ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is exactly why we should go after his kids.
They should be sitting it jail next to him, whether they did anything or not.Sound unfair?
This is EXACTLY how the United States treats drug dealers and other petty criminals.
If someone skips bail, their family members are arrested.
If they can't get the son, they go after the mother, etc.
If they didn't do anything, they make things up (it's near-impossible to sue to police for false arrest).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072866</id>
	<title>Concorde vs. Concordski</title>
	<author>rarel</author>
	<datestamp>1265734680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>A funny thing happened in the 60's during the development of Concorde, the USSR was of course spying on the Europeans as they were also workin gon their supersonic Tupolev. One of the (numerous) big issues was that of the rubber with which to make the tyres, as it had to be solid enough to resist the speed and whatnot.
In a documentary from 99, one of the European engineers said they had noticed spies collecting material on runways after tests, so they created a sort of unusable goo and pasted it on the runways for them to collect. He said he'd have given anything to see the Russians' faces while trying to make sense of the stuff to create tyres with it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>A funny thing happened in the 60 's during the development of Concorde , the USSR was of course spying on the Europeans as they were also workin gon their supersonic Tupolev .
One of the ( numerous ) big issues was that of the rubber with which to make the tyres , as it had to be solid enough to resist the speed and whatnot .
In a documentary from 99 , one of the European engineers said they had noticed spies collecting material on runways after tests , so they created a sort of unusable goo and pasted it on the runways for them to collect .
He said he 'd have given anything to see the Russians ' faces while trying to make sense of the stuff to create tyres with it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A funny thing happened in the 60's during the development of Concorde, the USSR was of course spying on the Europeans as they were also workin gon their supersonic Tupolev.
One of the (numerous) big issues was that of the rubber with which to make the tyres, as it had to be solid enough to resist the speed and whatnot.
In a documentary from 99, one of the European engineers said they had noticed spies collecting material on runways after tests, so they created a sort of unusable goo and pasted it on the runways for them to collect.
He said he'd have given anything to see the Russians' faces while trying to make sense of the stuff to create tyres with it...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073674</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Skuld-Chan</author>
	<datestamp>1265737500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its probably cheaper this way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its probably cheaper this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its probably cheaper this way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073878</id>
	<title>Re:It's only fair</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265738160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We don't borrow money from China.</p><p>We offer bonds with very low interest rates on an open market... one of the largest buyers of these bonds is the PRC.</p><p>Owning a bond, or several billion of them, does not entitle you to anything but the agreed upon terms set when you purchased the bond.</p><p>If you buy stock in a company and those shares don't come with voting rights, you can conceivably own a majority of the company's wealth and still have ZERO power over the company.  For example, Google has shares that are given 10 votes per share, owned mostly by the founders of the company.  If any single entity owned every share other than those 10 vote shares, they still are not entitled to control the company.</p><p>Finally, national debt isn't a debt in a traditional sense.  Bonds are issued against wealth that is not liquid in order to use that wealth to promote further growth.  People pull out equity on their homes to make improvements all of the time... their net worth can actually increase even though they actually owe the bank more money.  The fact that the US is considered to have so much value that we can issue bonds to the tune of Trillions at 0 interest goes to show that our nation is doing VERY well financially, we haven't even begun to over extend ourselves.  True, at some point we will have to repay the bonds, but the hope is that when we do, our nation will be worth more than before due to the investments made with the cash we received from their sale.  To repay, we just sell more bonds.</p><p>Any 2nd year business major can tell you that a corporation that doesn't leverage its assets in order to gain capital for further investments is a corporation that is poorly run.  Corporations cannot operate on revenue alone, they need to sell stock or take out loans against the value of the company in order to capitalize their growth.  Thats what the US does, and should be doing.  Part of me would love to see just how much cash we could rake in if we tried... can you imagine how it would effect the value of our nation if we instantly doubled our investment in education, research, and infrastructure.  Those are investments that we should be making and the way to do it is to leverage our worth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do n't borrow money from China.We offer bonds with very low interest rates on an open market... one of the largest buyers of these bonds is the PRC.Owning a bond , or several billion of them , does not entitle you to anything but the agreed upon terms set when you purchased the bond.If you buy stock in a company and those shares do n't come with voting rights , you can conceivably own a majority of the company 's wealth and still have ZERO power over the company .
For example , Google has shares that are given 10 votes per share , owned mostly by the founders of the company .
If any single entity owned every share other than those 10 vote shares , they still are not entitled to control the company.Finally , national debt is n't a debt in a traditional sense .
Bonds are issued against wealth that is not liquid in order to use that wealth to promote further growth .
People pull out equity on their homes to make improvements all of the time... their net worth can actually increase even though they actually owe the bank more money .
The fact that the US is considered to have so much value that we can issue bonds to the tune of Trillions at 0 interest goes to show that our nation is doing VERY well financially , we have n't even begun to over extend ourselves .
True , at some point we will have to repay the bonds , but the hope is that when we do , our nation will be worth more than before due to the investments made with the cash we received from their sale .
To repay , we just sell more bonds.Any 2nd year business major can tell you that a corporation that does n't leverage its assets in order to gain capital for further investments is a corporation that is poorly run .
Corporations can not operate on revenue alone , they need to sell stock or take out loans against the value of the company in order to capitalize their growth .
Thats what the US does , and should be doing .
Part of me would love to see just how much cash we could rake in if we tried... can you imagine how it would effect the value of our nation if we instantly doubled our investment in education , research , and infrastructure .
Those are investments that we should be making and the way to do it is to leverage our worth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We don't borrow money from China.We offer bonds with very low interest rates on an open market... one of the largest buyers of these bonds is the PRC.Owning a bond, or several billion of them, does not entitle you to anything but the agreed upon terms set when you purchased the bond.If you buy stock in a company and those shares don't come with voting rights, you can conceivably own a majority of the company's wealth and still have ZERO power over the company.
For example, Google has shares that are given 10 votes per share, owned mostly by the founders of the company.
If any single entity owned every share other than those 10 vote shares, they still are not entitled to control the company.Finally, national debt isn't a debt in a traditional sense.
Bonds are issued against wealth that is not liquid in order to use that wealth to promote further growth.
People pull out equity on their homes to make improvements all of the time... their net worth can actually increase even though they actually owe the bank more money.
The fact that the US is considered to have so much value that we can issue bonds to the tune of Trillions at 0 interest goes to show that our nation is doing VERY well financially, we haven't even begun to over extend ourselves.
True, at some point we will have to repay the bonds, but the hope is that when we do, our nation will be worth more than before due to the investments made with the cash we received from their sale.
To repay, we just sell more bonds.Any 2nd year business major can tell you that a corporation that doesn't leverage its assets in order to gain capital for further investments is a corporation that is poorly run.
Corporations cannot operate on revenue alone, they need to sell stock or take out loans against the value of the company in order to capitalize their growth.
Thats what the US does, and should be doing.
Part of me would love to see just how much cash we could rake in if we tried... can you imagine how it would effect the value of our nation if we instantly doubled our investment in education, research, and infrastructure.
Those are investments that we should be making and the way to do it is to leverage our worth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31084926</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>sydneyfong</author>
	<datestamp>1265036340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others have already mentioned, did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, that it's not because those people were somehow still considered themselves to owe allegiance to their former countries, but just that what they said was closer to the objective truth?</p><p>Maybe the US shouldn't act all righteous after being caught poking its nose into a foreign country?<br>Maybe the US media really is biased in reporting the incidents about Tibet?</p><p>And why should they care how China was portrayed? Is it not enough that they desire at least some level of objectivity? Does demonizing China help anybody at all (except those who profit from fear)?</p><p>Instead of accusing them of sympathizing with the country that they should have severed ties with, why not use them as a glimpse into the window the truth of a country so often subject to distortion or outright lies by the US govt and media?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others have already mentioned , did it occur to you that maybe , just maybe , that it 's not because those people were somehow still considered themselves to owe allegiance to their former countries , but just that what they said was closer to the objective truth ? Maybe the US should n't act all righteous after being caught poking its nose into a foreign country ? Maybe the US media really is biased in reporting the incidents about Tibet ? And why should they care how China was portrayed ?
Is it not enough that they desire at least some level of objectivity ?
Does demonizing China help anybody at all ( except those who profit from fear ) ? Instead of accusing them of sympathizing with the country that they should have severed ties with , why not use them as a glimpse into the window the truth of a country so often subject to distortion or outright lies by the US govt and media ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others have already mentioned, did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, that it's not because those people were somehow still considered themselves to owe allegiance to their former countries, but just that what they said was closer to the objective truth?Maybe the US shouldn't act all righteous after being caught poking its nose into a foreign country?Maybe the US media really is biased in reporting the incidents about Tibet?And why should they care how China was portrayed?
Is it not enough that they desire at least some level of objectivity?
Does demonizing China help anybody at all (except those who profit from fear)?Instead of accusing them of sympathizing with the country that they should have severed ties with, why not use them as a glimpse into the window the truth of a country so often subject to distortion or outright lies by the US govt and media?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076926</id>
	<title>Re:It's only fair</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1265706060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, we are borrowing in no small part because they have their GD money fixed to ours AND have increased trade barriers to our products, dump their products on the west. Per the deal to get Perm. Most Favored Nation AND WTO, they are suppose to do NONE of these things. We need to revoke MFN and then work towards getting WTO revoked as well (that will be difficult, most likely impossible).  But if either China obeys their treaties, OR we did the above, we could get our economy back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , we are borrowing in no small part because they have their GD money fixed to ours AND have increased trade barriers to our products , dump their products on the west .
Per the deal to get Perm .
Most Favored Nation AND WTO , they are suppose to do NONE of these things .
We need to revoke MFN and then work towards getting WTO revoked as well ( that will be difficult , most likely impossible ) .
But if either China obeys their treaties , OR we did the above , we could get our economy back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, we are borrowing in no small part because they have their GD money fixed to ours AND have increased trade barriers to our products, dump their products on the west.
Per the deal to get Perm.
Most Favored Nation AND WTO, they are suppose to do NONE of these things.
We need to revoke MFN and then work towards getting WTO revoked as well (that will be difficult, most likely impossible).
But if either China obeys their treaties, OR we did the above, we could get our economy back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075570</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>brufleth</author>
	<datestamp>1265744400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Working on a government project at Boeing IS working for the government.  It isn't outsourcing.  It is hiring a vendor to do a job for you.  Yes, there is a difference.  The government does not have the facilities and expertise to support the program.  Short of the government socializing all industry that's how things work.

The military industrial complex label is applicable but depending on your views of the space shuttle program this is a positive result.  A private company without the aid of the government was nowhere near creating a space shuttle.  The government had to collude with big industry players to make the shuttle happen.  Did this make a lot of money for some companies like Boeing?  Almost certainly.  Is it bad?  Well that's another matter and people could easily argue either way.  It certainly has served to put the US in a more dominate role globally.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Working on a government project at Boeing IS working for the government .
It is n't outsourcing .
It is hiring a vendor to do a job for you .
Yes , there is a difference .
The government does not have the facilities and expertise to support the program .
Short of the government socializing all industry that 's how things work .
The military industrial complex label is applicable but depending on your views of the space shuttle program this is a positive result .
A private company without the aid of the government was nowhere near creating a space shuttle .
The government had to collude with big industry players to make the shuttle happen .
Did this make a lot of money for some companies like Boeing ?
Almost certainly .
Is it bad ?
Well that 's another matter and people could easily argue either way .
It certainly has served to put the US in a more dominate role globally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Working on a government project at Boeing IS working for the government.
It isn't outsourcing.
It is hiring a vendor to do a job for you.
Yes, there is a difference.
The government does not have the facilities and expertise to support the program.
Short of the government socializing all industry that's how things work.
The military industrial complex label is applicable but depending on your views of the space shuttle program this is a positive result.
A private company without the aid of the government was nowhere near creating a space shuttle.
The government had to collude with big industry players to make the shuttle happen.
Did this make a lot of money for some companies like Boeing?
Almost certainly.
Is it bad?
Well that's another matter and people could easily argue either way.
It certainly has served to put the US in a more dominate role globally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073698</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265737680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize...begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they're now Americans</p></div><p>I don't know if you're a troll or just an idiot, but it's one or the other.  Being a citizen of a country does not mean you should support all of its policies.  That goes double for being an American citizen.  If you're a patriot, you will fucking disagree with the government, very loudly, every time you dislike the actions.  Then you're going to try to vote the people you dislike out and convince others to do the same.  This country has a tradition of government for the people, not people for the government.</p><p>As for the US spying incident.  We all know nations spy on each other as a matter of course.  When you're <b>caught</b> you should be embarrassed.  Do you think the Chinese government should apologize for its spying activity which is getting such publicity these days?  Do you feel you deserve it?  Then why don't you feel we need to apologize when we're the ones doing it?  Spying is a strange game.  You can't afford to stay out of it, but everyone seems to agree it's a bad thing.  What that means is...don't get caught, or risk the diplomatic consequences of being caught.  Sometimes that involves publicly apologizing for your actions, sometimes it might involve economic sanctions, sometimes it might involve a break of diplomatic ties or even war.  Depends on the action that was being performed and on who the players are.</p><p>Finally, when someone becomes a citizen of the United States, they don't instantly lose all cultural ties, nor as they expected to.  You don't become American and stop supporting your previous nation.  Becoming an American citizen means a promise to defend the US Constitution, to defend the United States against its enemies, and to sever ties of <b>allegiance</b> to the countries you were previously a citizen of.  That means that you don't spy on the US for your country of origin, it means that you promise to take arms to defend the US if it comes under attack, it <b>does not mean you now need to change all your beliefs to line up with those of the people who were born in this country.</b>  You still get to be you, nobody can take that away.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001 , almost every Chinese person I knew , despite being US citizens , was adamant that the US should apologize...begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they 're now AmericansI do n't know if you 're a troll or just an idiot , but it 's one or the other .
Being a citizen of a country does not mean you should support all of its policies .
That goes double for being an American citizen .
If you 're a patriot , you will fucking disagree with the government , very loudly , every time you dislike the actions .
Then you 're going to try to vote the people you dislike out and convince others to do the same .
This country has a tradition of government for the people , not people for the government.As for the US spying incident .
We all know nations spy on each other as a matter of course .
When you 're caught you should be embarrassed .
Do you think the Chinese government should apologize for its spying activity which is getting such publicity these days ?
Do you feel you deserve it ?
Then why do n't you feel we need to apologize when we 're the ones doing it ?
Spying is a strange game .
You ca n't afford to stay out of it , but everyone seems to agree it 's a bad thing .
What that means is...do n't get caught , or risk the diplomatic consequences of being caught .
Sometimes that involves publicly apologizing for your actions , sometimes it might involve economic sanctions , sometimes it might involve a break of diplomatic ties or even war .
Depends on the action that was being performed and on who the players are.Finally , when someone becomes a citizen of the United States , they do n't instantly lose all cultural ties , nor as they expected to .
You do n't become American and stop supporting your previous nation .
Becoming an American citizen means a promise to defend the US Constitution , to defend the United States against its enemies , and to sever ties of allegiance to the countries you were previously a citizen of .
That means that you do n't spy on the US for your country of origin , it means that you promise to take arms to defend the US if it comes under attack , it does not mean you now need to change all your beliefs to line up with those of the people who were born in this country .
You still get to be you , nobody can take that away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize...begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they're now AmericansI don't know if you're a troll or just an idiot, but it's one or the other.
Being a citizen of a country does not mean you should support all of its policies.
That goes double for being an American citizen.
If you're a patriot, you will fucking disagree with the government, very loudly, every time you dislike the actions.
Then you're going to try to vote the people you dislike out and convince others to do the same.
This country has a tradition of government for the people, not people for the government.As for the US spying incident.
We all know nations spy on each other as a matter of course.
When you're caught you should be embarrassed.
Do you think the Chinese government should apologize for its spying activity which is getting such publicity these days?
Do you feel you deserve it?
Then why don't you feel we need to apologize when we're the ones doing it?
Spying is a strange game.
You can't afford to stay out of it, but everyone seems to agree it's a bad thing.
What that means is...don't get caught, or risk the diplomatic consequences of being caught.
Sometimes that involves publicly apologizing for your actions, sometimes it might involve economic sanctions, sometimes it might involve a break of diplomatic ties or even war.
Depends on the action that was being performed and on who the players are.Finally, when someone becomes a citizen of the United States, they don't instantly lose all cultural ties, nor as they expected to.
You don't become American and stop supporting your previous nation.
Becoming an American citizen means a promise to defend the US Constitution, to defend the United States against its enemies, and to sever ties of allegiance to the countries you were previously a citizen of.
That means that you don't spy on the US for your country of origin, it means that you promise to take arms to defend the US if it comes under attack, it does not mean you now need to change all your beliefs to line up with those of the people who were born in this country.
You still get to be you, nobody can take that away.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073036</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265735400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think you're a troll, but I do think that conflating national affiliation with cultural identity doesn't work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think you 're a troll , but I do think that conflating national affiliation with cultural identity does n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think you're a troll, but I do think that conflating national affiliation with cultural identity doesn't work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074392</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265740140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ya, right. Let me guess, you are an American, living in your mothers basement, with a pinhole view of the world, and zero understanding of trade balances, foreign debt holders, or fiat currencies?</p><p>Here is what would happen.</p><p>You: Fuck you chinks, we ain't payin our bill... HAHAHAHAHAHAH try that one on for size you fishhead eating slant eyed sons a bitches!!!!<br>China: Really?<br>You: USA USA USA USA USA USA<br>China: Hello world, fire sale on US T-Bills. All US debt must go, we don't want it anymore.<br>You: Screw this, I am going to WalMart to shop.... Hey, why are those socks 95 dollars for a three pack, last week they were 2 dollars for 10 pairs?? WTF<br>China: Hey round eye, how do you like your greenback peso now, biaaaatchh!!!!<br>You: Why did it cost 115 Euros to fill my gas tank this morning, WTF is a Euro, and why do they cost 130 USD a piece?<br>China: Hey Americunt, you feel like payin your bills yet, or are you going to let your dollar become the Deutchmark of the 1920's, Oh, look at that, it is now 165 USD for a Euro, and Gas cost 2 Euros a gallon. Fillin that SUV is gonna HURT.<br>You: Wow, mom lost the house, internet costs 1500 USPesos a month, and there is nothing to buy in any stores, I guess I can join the army and be cannon fodder.<br>USARMY/NAVY/AF/MARINES: Sorry biatch, we ain't hirin since China cut up our credit card. We can't pay for guns, bombs, or gas, and socks now cost 2500 USPesos a pair! We have declared world peace, cuz we can't afford to fight.<br>You: Wow, that sure sucked, starving to death with no job, no money, no credit, and no friends.<br>World: Have no fear, the IMF and World Bank will be happy to completely enslave your country, and saddle you with debt that can never be paid back, while stealing anything of commercial value left in your country. Welcome to the third world!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ya , right .
Let me guess , you are an American , living in your mothers basement , with a pinhole view of the world , and zero understanding of trade balances , foreign debt holders , or fiat currencies ? Here is what would happen.You : Fuck you chinks , we ai n't payin our bill... HAHAHAHAHAHAH try that one on for size you fishhead eating slant eyed sons a bitches ! ! !
! China : Really ? You : USA USA USA USA USA USAChina : Hello world , fire sale on US T-Bills .
All US debt must go , we do n't want it anymore.You : Screw this , I am going to WalMart to shop.... Hey , why are those socks 95 dollars for a three pack , last week they were 2 dollars for 10 pairs ? ?
WTFChina : Hey round eye , how do you like your greenback peso now , biaaaatchh ! ! !
! You : Why did it cost 115 Euros to fill my gas tank this morning , WTF is a Euro , and why do they cost 130 USD a piece ? China : Hey Americunt , you feel like payin your bills yet , or are you going to let your dollar become the Deutchmark of the 1920 's , Oh , look at that , it is now 165 USD for a Euro , and Gas cost 2 Euros a gallon .
Fillin that SUV is gon na HURT.You : Wow , mom lost the house , internet costs 1500 USPesos a month , and there is nothing to buy in any stores , I guess I can join the army and be cannon fodder.USARMY/NAVY/AF/MARINES : Sorry biatch , we ai n't hirin since China cut up our credit card .
We ca n't pay for guns , bombs , or gas , and socks now cost 2500 USPesos a pair !
We have declared world peace , cuz we ca n't afford to fight.You : Wow , that sure sucked , starving to death with no job , no money , no credit , and no friends.World : Have no fear , the IMF and World Bank will be happy to completely enslave your country , and saddle you with debt that can never be paid back , while stealing anything of commercial value left in your country .
Welcome to the third world !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ya, right.
Let me guess, you are an American, living in your mothers basement, with a pinhole view of the world, and zero understanding of trade balances, foreign debt holders, or fiat currencies?Here is what would happen.You: Fuck you chinks, we ain't payin our bill... HAHAHAHAHAHAH try that one on for size you fishhead eating slant eyed sons a bitches!!!
!China: Really?You: USA USA USA USA USA USAChina: Hello world, fire sale on US T-Bills.
All US debt must go, we don't want it anymore.You: Screw this, I am going to WalMart to shop.... Hey, why are those socks 95 dollars for a three pack, last week they were 2 dollars for 10 pairs??
WTFChina: Hey round eye, how do you like your greenback peso now, biaaaatchh!!!
!You: Why did it cost 115 Euros to fill my gas tank this morning, WTF is a Euro, and why do they cost 130 USD a piece?China: Hey Americunt, you feel like payin your bills yet, or are you going to let your dollar become the Deutchmark of the 1920's, Oh, look at that, it is now 165 USD for a Euro, and Gas cost 2 Euros a gallon.
Fillin that SUV is gonna HURT.You: Wow, mom lost the house, internet costs 1500 USPesos a month, and there is nothing to buy in any stores, I guess I can join the army and be cannon fodder.USARMY/NAVY/AF/MARINES: Sorry biatch, we ain't hirin since China cut up our credit card.
We can't pay for guns, bombs, or gas, and socks now cost 2500 USPesos a pair!
We have declared world peace, cuz we can't afford to fight.You: Wow, that sure sucked, starving to death with no job, no money, no credit, and no friends.World: Have no fear, the IMF and World Bank will be happy to completely enslave your country, and saddle you with debt that can never be paid back, while stealing anything of commercial value left in your country.
Welcome to the third world!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</id>
	<title>i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>nycguy</author>
	<datestamp>1265733780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>...but I've known quite a few Chinese Americans, both from the mainland and from Taiwan, who despite having become citizens here seem to be more concerned about their former homeland than their new one. I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize. During the Tibet unrest, many Chinese Americans I know accused the US media of bias--begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they're now Americans. Maybe this is no different than past waves of immigrants, and maybe it's no different than some Jewish Americans (even born here) who show more support for Israel than they do for the US. It's also no different than Muslim immigrants to Europe who show more allegiance to their religion and the ummah than their adopted nations. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter. In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population? This story obviously shows one--money--but the question is whether there's anything beyond that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...but I 've known quite a few Chinese Americans , both from the mainland and from Taiwan , who despite having become citizens here seem to be more concerned about their former homeland than their new one .
I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001 , almost every Chinese person I knew , despite being US citizens , was adamant that the US should apologize .
During the Tibet unrest , many Chinese Americans I know accused the US media of bias--begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they 're now Americans .
Maybe this is no different than past waves of immigrants , and maybe it 's no different than some Jewish Americans ( even born here ) who show more support for Israel than they do for the US .
It 's also no different than Muslim immigrants to Europe who show more allegiance to their religion and the ummah than their adopted nations .
Nevertheless , it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter .
In short , in today 's world , what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population ?
This story obviously shows one--money--but the question is whether there 's anything beyond that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but I've known quite a few Chinese Americans, both from the mainland and from Taiwan, who despite having become citizens here seem to be more concerned about their former homeland than their new one.
I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize.
During the Tibet unrest, many Chinese Americans I know accused the US media of bias--begging the question why they care so much about how China is portrayed if they're now Americans.
Maybe this is no different than past waves of immigrants, and maybe it's no different than some Jewish Americans (even born here) who show more support for Israel than they do for the US.
It's also no different than Muslim immigrants to Europe who show more allegiance to their religion and the ummah than their adopted nations.
Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences in this matter.
In short, in today's world, what are the real loyalties of an immigrant population?
This story obviously shows one--money--but the question is whether there's anything beyond that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31077440</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Waffle Iron</author>
	<datestamp>1265708100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not really, the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy (later years) and initial research (earlier years).</p></div><p>The Shuttle's fundamental design is so inherently flawed and unsafe that a massive bureaucracy, meticulous procedures and hand rebuilding are needed to keep the shuttle from being destroyed on each launch. The Chinese will have no magic cure for that fact.</p><p>In fact, if I were in charge I'd donate all the existing NASA Shuttle hardware to the Chinese so that they too can waste 30 years on a technological dead end. (This would also help to keep NASA from being tempted to recycle old shuttle parts into yet another launch system boondoggle.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really , the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy ( later years ) and initial research ( earlier years ) .The Shuttle 's fundamental design is so inherently flawed and unsafe that a massive bureaucracy , meticulous procedures and hand rebuilding are needed to keep the shuttle from being destroyed on each launch .
The Chinese will have no magic cure for that fact.In fact , if I were in charge I 'd donate all the existing NASA Shuttle hardware to the Chinese so that they too can waste 30 years on a technological dead end .
( This would also help to keep NASA from being tempted to recycle old shuttle parts into yet another launch system boondoggle .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really, the only reason the US wasted billions of dollars is because of bureaucracy (later years) and initial research (earlier years).The Shuttle's fundamental design is so inherently flawed and unsafe that a massive bureaucracy, meticulous procedures and hand rebuilding are needed to keep the shuttle from being destroyed on each launch.
The Chinese will have no magic cure for that fact.In fact, if I were in charge I'd donate all the existing NASA Shuttle hardware to the Chinese so that they too can waste 30 years on a technological dead end.
(This would also help to keep NASA from being tempted to recycle old shuttle parts into yet another launch system boondoggle.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073420</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>BZ</author>
	<datestamp>1265736720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; why the f--- would you outsource it</p><p>The US government "outsources" \_all\_ its military procurement, in the sense that they don't operate their own manufacturing facilities, don't necessarily do all the military R&amp;D, etc.</p><p>So if, say, you're working for Northrop Grumman (the only manufacturer of US nuclear aircraft carriers and one of the two manufacturers of US nuclear submarines) and you're on a classified project and you leak the details of that project to some other country... then that's espionage, period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; why the f--- would you outsource itThe US government " outsources " \ _all \ _ its military procurement , in the sense that they do n't operate their own manufacturing facilities , do n't necessarily do all the military R&amp;D , etc.So if , say , you 're working for Northrop Grumman ( the only manufacturer of US nuclear aircraft carriers and one of the two manufacturers of US nuclear submarines ) and you 're on a classified project and you leak the details of that project to some other country... then that 's espionage , period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; why the f--- would you outsource itThe US government "outsources" \_all\_ its military procurement, in the sense that they don't operate their own manufacturing facilities, don't necessarily do all the military R&amp;D, etc.So if, say, you're working for Northrop Grumman (the only manufacturer of US nuclear aircraft carriers and one of the two manufacturers of US nuclear submarines) and you're on a classified project and you leak the details of that project to some other country... then that's espionage, period.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31080260</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1265720880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A nation is a territory or country as political entity or a grouping of people who share real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin, often possessing or seeking its own government"  --wiki article</p><p>I would care to bet that those immigrants who still strongly feel affiliated with their former country are also still strongly entrenched in their original cultural identify (religion, food, language, friends, most likely unchanged from former country).  It isn't that way 100\% of the time, but I'd bet it is 75\%+.</p><p>Nationhood and culture are independent by definition, but in practice, often very intertwined.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A nation is a territory or country as political entity or a grouping of people who share real or imagined common history , culture , language or ethnic origin , often possessing or seeking its own government " --wiki articleI would care to bet that those immigrants who still strongly feel affiliated with their former country are also still strongly entrenched in their original cultural identify ( religion , food , language , friends , most likely unchanged from former country ) .
It is n't that way 100 \ % of the time , but I 'd bet it is 75 \ % + .Nationhood and culture are independent by definition , but in practice , often very intertwined .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A nation is a territory or country as political entity or a grouping of people who share real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin, often possessing or seeking its own government"  --wiki articleI would care to bet that those immigrants who still strongly feel affiliated with their former country are also still strongly entrenched in their original cultural identify (religion, food, language, friends, most likely unchanged from former country).
It isn't that way 100\% of the time, but I'd bet it is 75\%+.Nationhood and culture are independent by definition, but in practice, often very intertwined.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072654</id>
	<title>Let them have the plans</title>
	<author>Midnight Thunder</author>
	<datestamp>1265733840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I say let him go and let China do something with the plans if they so wish. Its not as if the shuttle program is continuing after this last flight or that NASA is going to do anything useful with the plans, other than let them gather dust or get lost. They don't have much of a budget anymore to even create a suitable replacement at this point. As a fan of the shuttle (despite the cost issues), it would be nice to see someone wasting their money on keeping the dream alive.</p><p>I know this is probably not a popular viewpoint in the USA, but I just want someone to get us to the moon again, somehow in my lifetime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I say let him go and let China do something with the plans if they so wish .
Its not as if the shuttle program is continuing after this last flight or that NASA is going to do anything useful with the plans , other than let them gather dust or get lost .
They do n't have much of a budget anymore to even create a suitable replacement at this point .
As a fan of the shuttle ( despite the cost issues ) , it would be nice to see someone wasting their money on keeping the dream alive.I know this is probably not a popular viewpoint in the USA , but I just want someone to get us to the moon again , somehow in my lifetime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say let him go and let China do something with the plans if they so wish.
Its not as if the shuttle program is continuing after this last flight or that NASA is going to do anything useful with the plans, other than let them gather dust or get lost.
They don't have much of a budget anymore to even create a suitable replacement at this point.
As a fan of the shuttle (despite the cost issues), it would be nice to see someone wasting their money on keeping the dream alive.I know this is probably not a popular viewpoint in the USA, but I just want someone to get us to the moon again, somehow in my lifetime.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074448</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1265740380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Because after years in a Chinese prison, I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore.</p></div> </blockquote><p>I'm sure they'll be thrilled to know that they'll be left to rot once they've outlived their usefulness.</p><p>This is the cancer that's killing our society.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because after years in a Chinese prison , I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore .
I 'm sure they 'll be thrilled to know that they 'll be left to rot once they 've outlived their usefulness.This is the cancer that 's killing our society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because after years in a Chinese prison, I doubt if any of our spies could even tie their shoes or make coherent thoughts anymore.
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to know that they'll be left to rot once they've outlived their usefulness.This is the cancer that's killing our society.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073702</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>jgtg32a</author>
	<datestamp>1265737680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's not a spy though, I think the word is asset. An actual spy cannot get that info, but the spy can recruit an asset who can. This guy doesn't have any use, he was paid to provide info he provided</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's not a spy though , I think the word is asset .
An actual spy can not get that info , but the spy can recruit an asset who can .
This guy does n't have any use , he was paid to provide info he provided</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's not a spy though, I think the word is asset.
An actual spy cannot get that info, but the spy can recruit an asset who can.
This guy doesn't have any use, he was paid to provide info he provided</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074752</id>
	<title>What's with this hate?</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1265741580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The guy broke some serious laws, and should be punished, and is being punished. But calls for his death? Where does this vindictiveness come from? He obtained information on space flight, not neutron weapons.</p><p>You know, the reason we have laws and a justice system is so we don't need to waste our time with hatred, anger, and death urges. Grow the fuck up, folks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The guy broke some serious laws , and should be punished , and is being punished .
But calls for his death ?
Where does this vindictiveness come from ?
He obtained information on space flight , not neutron weapons.You know , the reason we have laws and a justice system is so we do n't need to waste our time with hatred , anger , and death urges .
Grow the fuck up , folks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guy broke some serious laws, and should be punished, and is being punished.
But calls for his death?
Where does this vindictiveness come from?
He obtained information on space flight, not neutron weapons.You know, the reason we have laws and a justice system is so we don't need to waste our time with hatred, anger, and death urges.
Grow the fuck up, folks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074670</id>
	<title>Why not give it to em?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265741280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If China wants Shuttle technology, we should just sell it to em.  We're not interested in using it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If China wants Shuttle technology , we should just sell it to em .
We 're not interested in using it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If China wants Shuttle technology, we should just sell it to em.
We're not interested in using it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073918</id>
	<title>Sell it</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1265738340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We should just sell the entire shuttle program to the highest bidder (the Chinese), including all the equipment and documents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We should just sell the entire shuttle program to the highest bidder ( the Chinese ) , including all the equipment and documents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We should just sell the entire shuttle program to the highest bidder (the Chinese), including all the equipment and documents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072512</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>TheDarkMinstrel</author>
	<datestamp>1265733300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except that we've saved them billions by letting them learn from OUR mistakes...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that we 've saved them billions by letting them learn from OUR mistakes.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that we've saved them billions by letting them learn from OUR mistakes...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31084964</id>
	<title>Re:I've been saying it for years...</title>
	<author>sydneyfong</author>
	<datestamp>1265036520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is going to be the new racism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is going to be the new racism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is going to be the new racism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31079988</id>
	<title>Re:Promoting their agenda using others' advances.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265719140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... says the country that imported its technology, social structures, philosophy, laws, religion - heck, even its <em>language</em> - from Europe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... says the country that imported its technology , social structures , philosophy , laws , religion - heck , even its language - from Europe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... says the country that imported its technology, social structures, philosophy, laws, religion - heck, even its language - from Europe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076724</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265748540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We are spying other countries all the time and we believe we have right for it. We has spy airplane, CIA,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..etc. We have people trespassing to other countries, i.e. Iran, N. Korea by accident all the time. Spy vs Spy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are spying other countries all the time and we believe we have right for it .
We has spy airplane , CIA , ..etc .
We have people trespassing to other countries , i.e .
Iran , N. Korea by accident all the time .
Spy vs Spy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are spying other countries all the time and we believe we have right for it.
We has spy airplane, CIA, ..etc.
We have people trespassing to other countries, i.e.
Iran, N. Korea by accident all the time.
Spy vs Spy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073426</id>
	<title>Re:Concorde vs. Concordski</title>
	<author>Jeremy Erwin</author>
	<datestamp>1265736780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ironically, Concorde's tires proved to be fatal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically , Concorde 's tires proved to be fatal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically, Concorde's tires proved to be fatal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075850</id>
	<title>We are not in a cyber war</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265745240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>We are in a cold war. China has their money fixed to America's in spite of their treaty with us and their belonging to WTO. Likewise, they have higher trade barriers now, then when we first made the treaty with them. They are dumping products on the west, as well as subsidizing much of the production.<br> <br>
Add in that they are building up their military, but not in a defensive manner, but in Offensive. That will only work if you intend to attack. They are adding several different space stations. One is ran by their space agency. That agency is funded and controlled by their military. Though, it does have part of their information given out.  BUT, they have another space station going up that will be MILITARY ONLY. Little info is given out about. The interesting part is that there is ZERO advantage to a military to have a person on space station UNLESS YOU HAVE WEAPONS that you want to use. Because it is so trivial to take out those stations, they are only of use in a first strike scenario.<br> <br>
China is in a cold war with the west. We are trying hard to avoid it, though to Obama's credit, he is slowly stepping up repercussions for CHina to continue this course. He is now taking actions against the dumping and the subsidiaries. A few cases have been denied but we have called China on more in the first year, than W did his entire 8 years. We are also a long ways away from what EU does, even though CHina does more dumping here than there.<br> <br>
Hopefully, China stops this reckless actions, but I doubt it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We are in a cold war .
China has their money fixed to America 's in spite of their treaty with us and their belonging to WTO .
Likewise , they have higher trade barriers now , then when we first made the treaty with them .
They are dumping products on the west , as well as subsidizing much of the production .
Add in that they are building up their military , but not in a defensive manner , but in Offensive .
That will only work if you intend to attack .
They are adding several different space stations .
One is ran by their space agency .
That agency is funded and controlled by their military .
Though , it does have part of their information given out .
BUT , they have another space station going up that will be MILITARY ONLY .
Little info is given out about .
The interesting part is that there is ZERO advantage to a military to have a person on space station UNLESS YOU HAVE WEAPONS that you want to use .
Because it is so trivial to take out those stations , they are only of use in a first strike scenario .
China is in a cold war with the west .
We are trying hard to avoid it , though to Obama 's credit , he is slowly stepping up repercussions for CHina to continue this course .
He is now taking actions against the dumping and the subsidiaries .
A few cases have been denied but we have called China on more in the first year , than W did his entire 8 years .
We are also a long ways away from what EU does , even though CHina does more dumping here than there .
Hopefully , China stops this reckless actions , but I doubt it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are in a cold war.
China has their money fixed to America's in spite of their treaty with us and their belonging to WTO.
Likewise, they have higher trade barriers now, then when we first made the treaty with them.
They are dumping products on the west, as well as subsidizing much of the production.
Add in that they are building up their military, but not in a defensive manner, but in Offensive.
That will only work if you intend to attack.
They are adding several different space stations.
One is ran by their space agency.
That agency is funded and controlled by their military.
Though, it does have part of their information given out.
BUT, they have another space station going up that will be MILITARY ONLY.
Little info is given out about.
The interesting part is that there is ZERO advantage to a military to have a person on space station UNLESS YOU HAVE WEAPONS that you want to use.
Because it is so trivial to take out those stations, they are only of use in a first strike scenario.
China is in a cold war with the west.
We are trying hard to avoid it, though to Obama's credit, he is slowly stepping up repercussions for CHina to continue this course.
He is now taking actions against the dumping and the subsidiaries.
A few cases have been denied but we have called China on more in the first year, than W did his entire 8 years.
We are also a long ways away from what EU does, even though CHina does more dumping here than there.
Hopefully, China stops this reckless actions, but I doubt it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073082</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>afidel</author>
	<datestamp>1265735520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That was my thought too, the best thing we could do to slow down China's space program and sap some money out of their economy would be to let them steal the full plans for the Shuttle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That was my thought too , the best thing we could do to slow down China 's space program and sap some money out of their economy would be to let them steal the full plans for the Shuttle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was my thought too, the best thing we could do to slow down China's space program and sap some money out of their economy would be to let them steal the full plans for the Shuttle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076052</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1265745900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. I think that we SHOULD bring it back. This was not about economic spying. This is to develop new rockets, NEW MISSILES. This is about WEAPONRY. The man should be hung AND it should be televised. This is somebody that openly betrays all Americans, in fact, Westerners.  I have little need for this kind of trash.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I think that we SHOULD bring it back .
This was not about economic spying .
This is to develop new rockets , NEW MISSILES .
This is about WEAPONRY .
The man should be hung AND it should be televised .
This is somebody that openly betrays all Americans , in fact , Westerners .
I have little need for this kind of trash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I think that we SHOULD bring it back.
This was not about economic spying.
This is to develop new rockets, NEW MISSILES.
This is about WEAPONRY.
The man should be hung AND it should be televised.
This is somebody that openly betrays all Americans, in fact, Westerners.
I have little need for this kind of trash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072852</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265734620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why do we imprison them instead of killing them right away? Spy exchange. You may not hear it on TV, but it's pretty likely that they capture one of ours every now and then just as well, and what'd be a better resource to trade in for our spies than their spies?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we imprison them instead of killing them right away ?
Spy exchange .
You may not hear it on TV , but it 's pretty likely that they capture one of ours every now and then just as well , and what 'd be a better resource to trade in for our spies than their spies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we imprison them instead of killing them right away?
Spy exchange.
You may not hear it on TV, but it's pretty likely that they capture one of ours every now and then just as well, and what'd be a better resource to trade in for our spies than their spies?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072690</id>
	<title>This will not stop spying</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1265734020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Judge Carney is being very short sighted if he expects that this "strong sentence" will dissuade people from stealing technology and giving it to China.  I would be less likely to want to steal secrets from the Chinese Government because, if caught, I could be tortured and subject to unthinkable brutality.  Note that this is not a suggestion that we implement torture. But another slashdotter noted that Chung's retirement in Federal Prison will give him better healthcare options than many Americans that have been good, law-abiding citizens will have access to.  And, these Americans have worked hard for all of their lives.  Honestly, a better punishment would be to strip Chung of his citizenship and deport him to China and finally to sanction the Chinese Government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Judge Carney is being very short sighted if he expects that this " strong sentence " will dissuade people from stealing technology and giving it to China .
I would be less likely to want to steal secrets from the Chinese Government because , if caught , I could be tortured and subject to unthinkable brutality .
Note that this is not a suggestion that we implement torture .
But another slashdotter noted that Chung 's retirement in Federal Prison will give him better healthcare options than many Americans that have been good , law-abiding citizens will have access to .
And , these Americans have worked hard for all of their lives .
Honestly , a better punishment would be to strip Chung of his citizenship and deport him to China and finally to sanction the Chinese Government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Judge Carney is being very short sighted if he expects that this "strong sentence" will dissuade people from stealing technology and giving it to China.
I would be less likely to want to steal secrets from the Chinese Government because, if caught, I could be tortured and subject to unthinkable brutality.
Note that this is not a suggestion that we implement torture.
But another slashdotter noted that Chung's retirement in Federal Prison will give him better healthcare options than many Americans that have been good, law-abiding citizens will have access to.
And, these Americans have worked hard for all of their lives.
Honestly, a better punishment would be to strip Chung of his citizenship and deport him to China and finally to sanction the Chinese Government.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073850</id>
	<title>Faggot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265738100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>They should have given him the death penalty.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They should have given him the death penalty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should have given him the death penalty.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073092</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265735580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not so easy to carry the death penalty for treasonous crimes here in the U.S. because treason has to be witnessed and confirmed by no less than 2 people. Treason was one of crimes that the US founders decided to go heavy with detail. They understood the treason argument was an effective tool for tyrants, so they wanted to be very clear on the subject.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not so easy to carry the death penalty for treasonous crimes here in the U.S. because treason has to be witnessed and confirmed by no less than 2 people .
Treason was one of crimes that the US founders decided to go heavy with detail .
They understood the treason argument was an effective tool for tyrants , so they wanted to be very clear on the subject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not so easy to carry the death penalty for treasonous crimes here in the U.S. because treason has to be witnessed and confirmed by no less than 2 people.
Treason was one of crimes that the US founders decided to go heavy with detail.
They understood the treason argument was an effective tool for tyrants, so they wanted to be very clear on the subject.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072540</id>
	<title>C'mon, let 'em build their own...</title>
	<author>garyisabusyguy</author>
	<datestamp>1265733360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>fleet of Burans, that should keep them busy for the next decade.</p><p>It might even give us a chance to roll out a new heavy launcher before the rest of the planet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>fleet of Burans , that should keep them busy for the next decade.It might even give us a chance to roll out a new heavy launcher before the rest of the planet : (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fleet of Burans, that should keep them busy for the next decade.It might even give us a chance to roll out a new heavy launcher before the rest of the planet :(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074608</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>Solandri</author>
	<datestamp>1265741100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Mostly agreed on what you have to say about integration into the U.S..  But the part I've quoted above is a cultural thing.  In Asian cultures, apologies are a big deal.  In this type of case, the one who created the situation should apologize, regardless of fault or the specifics of the incident.  The U.S., being the one doing the spying, was the one who initially created the situation which caused both planes to be there.  So in the minds of the Chinese, the U.S. is the party expected to apologize, open and shut case.  It's why you hear all the time about Japanese managers and government officials apologizing and stepping down from their posts because something bad happened on their watch, even when you could not reasonably have expected them to have prevented the incident.  It's just something that's expected of people in charge.
<br> <br>
(The reverse does not apply here.  Industrial espionage is the norm in Asia.  The Chinese won't consider this something worthy of apologizing to the U.S. for because it was pure espionage, and there was no loss of life.  Byzantine unwritten rules like this are part of what makes business and politics in Asia challenging.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001 , almost every Chinese person I knew , despite being US citizens , was adamant that the US should apologize .
Mostly agreed on what you have to say about integration into the U.S.. But the part I 've quoted above is a cultural thing .
In Asian cultures , apologies are a big deal .
In this type of case , the one who created the situation should apologize , regardless of fault or the specifics of the incident .
The U.S. , being the one doing the spying , was the one who initially created the situation which caused both planes to be there .
So in the minds of the Chinese , the U.S. is the party expected to apologize , open and shut case .
It 's why you hear all the time about Japanese managers and government officials apologizing and stepping down from their posts because something bad happened on their watch , even when you could not reasonably have expected them to have prevented the incident .
It 's just something that 's expected of people in charge .
( The reverse does not apply here .
Industrial espionage is the norm in Asia .
The Chinese wo n't consider this something worthy of apologizing to the U.S. for because it was pure espionage , and there was no loss of life .
Byzantine unwritten rules like this are part of what makes business and politics in Asia challenging .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember when the American spy plane had the collision with the Chinese fighter jet in 2001, almost every Chinese person I knew, despite being US citizens, was adamant that the US should apologize.
Mostly agreed on what you have to say about integration into the U.S..  But the part I've quoted above is a cultural thing.
In Asian cultures, apologies are a big deal.
In this type of case, the one who created the situation should apologize, regardless of fault or the specifics of the incident.
The U.S., being the one doing the spying, was the one who initially created the situation which caused both planes to be there.
So in the minds of the Chinese, the U.S. is the party expected to apologize, open and shut case.
It's why you hear all the time about Japanese managers and government officials apologizing and stepping down from their posts because something bad happened on their watch, even when you could not reasonably have expected them to have prevented the incident.
It's just something that's expected of people in charge.
(The reverse does not apply here.
Industrial espionage is the norm in Asia.
The Chinese won't consider this something worthy of apologizing to the U.S. for because it was pure espionage, and there was no loss of life.
Byzantine unwritten rules like this are part of what makes business and politics in Asia challenging.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074904</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265742180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Were the space shuttles not going up for auction anyway?  Why don't the chinese just buy one and save themselves the trouble?</p><p>Or is it like decomissioned military ships where all the "cool stuff" is offloaded before hand and what you actually get if you win is an aluminum shell with no flashing lights, displays or working electronics of any kind?  Would certainly explain the lack of interest...</p><p>Don't loose hope as the "cool stuff" has a way of showing up on ebay eventually anyway<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Were the space shuttles not going up for auction anyway ?
Why do n't the chinese just buy one and save themselves the trouble ? Or is it like decomissioned military ships where all the " cool stuff " is offloaded before hand and what you actually get if you win is an aluminum shell with no flashing lights , displays or working electronics of any kind ?
Would certainly explain the lack of interest...Do n't loose hope as the " cool stuff " has a way of showing up on ebay eventually anyway : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Were the space shuttles not going up for auction anyway?
Why don't the chinese just buy one and save themselves the trouble?Or is it like decomissioned military ships where all the "cool stuff" is offloaded before hand and what you actually get if you win is an aluminum shell with no flashing lights, displays or working electronics of any kind?
Would certainly explain the lack of interest...Don't loose hope as the "cool stuff" has a way of showing up on ebay eventually anyway :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073368</id>
	<title>Just let them steal it.</title>
	<author>drolli</author>
	<datestamp>1265736600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AFAIU US is not going to build more of them. Let it replicate by the chinese, they can test i a few times and when it find you buy it back for 1/4 of the price it cost you to build it in the US. Works for iphones, thinkpads, should also work for shuttles. Even better: Develop the next generation together with china.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AFAIU US is not going to build more of them .
Let it replicate by the chinese , they can test i a few times and when it find you buy it back for 1/4 of the price it cost you to build it in the US .
Works for iphones , thinkpads , should also work for shuttles .
Even better : Develop the next generation together with china .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AFAIU US is not going to build more of them.
Let it replicate by the chinese, they can test i a few times and when it find you buy it back for 1/4 of the price it cost you to build it in the US.
Works for iphones, thinkpads, should also work for shuttles.
Even better: Develop the next generation together with china.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074136</id>
	<title>Chinese knockoffs?  HOW NOVEL!</title>
	<author>t33jster</author>
	<datestamp>1265739120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the Chinese knockoff space shuttle is anything like the Rolex I bought in Tian Jin, then there's really nothing to see here.  It will stop working as soon as it gets a little rain on it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the Chinese knockoff space shuttle is anything like the Rolex I bought in Tian Jin , then there 's really nothing to see here .
It will stop working as soon as it gets a little rain on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the Chinese knockoff space shuttle is anything like the Rolex I bought in Tian Jin, then there's really nothing to see here.
It will stop working as soon as it gets a little rain on it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072402</id>
	<title>I've been saying it for years...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265732760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can't trust the Chinese.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't trust the Chinese .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't trust the Chinese.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075522</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>rwv</author>
	<datestamp>1265744160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Boeing competes with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman for government work.  They're separate and independent companies who bid on the same multi-billion dollar contracts based on the theory that competition drives quality up and costs down.  For intents and purposes, these companies are required to follow strict government rules to win contracts... so they can be labeled as quasi-government companies.

</p><p>As far I know, the Chinese have one national defense company and the implication of this article is that spies infiltrate American (and likely Russian) offices and keep costs down by stealing the original research.

</p><p>One academic criticism of the Chinese culture that I've heard from an American professor is that they value getting the final result more than the path used to arrive at the final result.  Original research is just as good as copying from a neighbor.  Follow the path of least resistance.  It's a completely logical way of thinking unless you consider cheating to be unethical.  The professor who shared this with me said that his research had found it very difficult to educate native Chinese students because there is this natural inclination to "cheat" more-so than from other cultures which value individual achievement.

</p><p>Which way is right?  It's hard to say.  Powerful arguments can be made for both the "competition" model and the "collaboration" model.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Boeing competes with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman for government work .
They 're separate and independent companies who bid on the same multi-billion dollar contracts based on the theory that competition drives quality up and costs down .
For intents and purposes , these companies are required to follow strict government rules to win contracts... so they can be labeled as quasi-government companies .
As far I know , the Chinese have one national defense company and the implication of this article is that spies infiltrate American ( and likely Russian ) offices and keep costs down by stealing the original research .
One academic criticism of the Chinese culture that I 've heard from an American professor is that they value getting the final result more than the path used to arrive at the final result .
Original research is just as good as copying from a neighbor .
Follow the path of least resistance .
It 's a completely logical way of thinking unless you consider cheating to be unethical .
The professor who shared this with me said that his research had found it very difficult to educate native Chinese students because there is this natural inclination to " cheat " more-so than from other cultures which value individual achievement .
Which way is right ?
It 's hard to say .
Powerful arguments can be made for both the " competition " model and the " collaboration " model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Boeing competes with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman for government work.
They're separate and independent companies who bid on the same multi-billion dollar contracts based on the theory that competition drives quality up and costs down.
For intents and purposes, these companies are required to follow strict government rules to win contracts... so they can be labeled as quasi-government companies.
As far I know, the Chinese have one national defense company and the implication of this article is that spies infiltrate American (and likely Russian) offices and keep costs down by stealing the original research.
One academic criticism of the Chinese culture that I've heard from an American professor is that they value getting the final result more than the path used to arrive at the final result.
Original research is just as good as copying from a neighbor.
Follow the path of least resistance.
It's a completely logical way of thinking unless you consider cheating to be unethical.
The professor who shared this with me said that his research had found it very difficult to educate native Chinese students because there is this natural inclination to "cheat" more-so than from other cultures which value individual achievement.
Which way is right?
It's hard to say.
Powerful arguments can be made for both the "competition" model and the "collaboration" model.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073760</id>
	<title>If he were an American using torrents ...</title>
	<author>Wokan</author>
	<datestamp>1265737860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he were an American using torrents to distribute those plans he'd have gotten 20 years instead, but only because the MPAA would have sued him instead claiming the shuttles were used in several movie scenes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he were an American using torrents to distribute those plans he 'd have gotten 20 years instead , but only because the MPAA would have sued him instead claiming the shuttles were used in several movie scenes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he were an American using torrents to distribute those plans he'd have gotten 20 years instead, but only because the MPAA would have sued him instead claiming the shuttles were used in several movie scenes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076368</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265747040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(Or am I being somewhat naive about the "military industrial complex" bogeyman, where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous...?)</p></div><p>Yes you are.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( Or am I being somewhat naive about the " military industrial complex " bogeyman , where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous... ?
) Yes you are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Or am I being somewhat naive about the "military industrial complex" bogeyman, where Boeing and the US Government become synonymous...?
)Yes you are.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074594</id>
	<title>Re:This will not stop spying</title>
	<author>dosilegecko</author>
	<datestamp>1265741040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>OR, send him to the sun in a retired shuttle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>OR , send him to the sun in a retired shuttle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OR, send him to the sun in a retired shuttle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072766</id>
	<title>Aboard</title>
	<author>pgn674</author>
	<datestamp>1265734320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was definitely more excited when I read that as<p><div class="quote"><p>A Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information <b>aboard</b> the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was definitely more excited when I read that asA Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information aboard the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was definitely more excited when I read that asA Chinese-born engineer was sentenced Monday to more than 15 years in prison for hoarding sensitive information aboard the US space shuttle with the intent of giving it to China.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073556</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1265737080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bleeding heart conservatives...</p><p>When I die, it will almost assuredly be horrible. Cancer, stroke, heart disease, old age consumed with arthritis in a nursing home after outliving all my friends and family, gunshot, car accident, etc. We're all under a death penalty, and for almost everyone death will be horrible.</p><p>When someone on death row dies, they're euthanized painlessly like a beloved household pet.</p><p>Everyone has to die, but not everyone has to spend years in captivity. I'd rather let traitors and murderors rot in prison than putting them painlessly out of their misery. The cost of incarceration is, imo, tax money well spent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bleeding heart conservatives...When I die , it will almost assuredly be horrible .
Cancer , stroke , heart disease , old age consumed with arthritis in a nursing home after outliving all my friends and family , gunshot , car accident , etc .
We 're all under a death penalty , and for almost everyone death will be horrible.When someone on death row dies , they 're euthanized painlessly like a beloved household pet.Everyone has to die , but not everyone has to spend years in captivity .
I 'd rather let traitors and murderors rot in prison than putting them painlessly out of their misery .
The cost of incarceration is , imo , tax money well spent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bleeding heart conservatives...When I die, it will almost assuredly be horrible.
Cancer, stroke, heart disease, old age consumed with arthritis in a nursing home after outliving all my friends and family, gunshot, car accident, etc.
We're all under a death penalty, and for almost everyone death will be horrible.When someone on death row dies, they're euthanized painlessly like a beloved household pet.Everyone has to die, but not everyone has to spend years in captivity.
I'd rather let traitors and murderors rot in prison than putting them painlessly out of their misery.
The cost of incarceration is, imo, tax money well spent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072674</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1265733900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually the SSME are still some of the most advanced liquid fueled engines flying today. The ET uses ALLI alloy and also very advanced and the SRB are the most powerful solid fuel boosters ever flown.<br>Throw in the fact that the Shuttle probably has the most hypersonic flight time of any vehicle and you have a really treasure trove of useful information.<br>Yes the Shuttle was too expensive per flight but really is a technological marvel an one that has produced a lot very useful knowledge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually the SSME are still some of the most advanced liquid fueled engines flying today .
The ET uses ALLI alloy and also very advanced and the SRB are the most powerful solid fuel boosters ever flown.Throw in the fact that the Shuttle probably has the most hypersonic flight time of any vehicle and you have a really treasure trove of useful information.Yes the Shuttle was too expensive per flight but really is a technological marvel an one that has produced a lot very useful knowledge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually the SSME are still some of the most advanced liquid fueled engines flying today.
The ET uses ALLI alloy and also very advanced and the SRB are the most powerful solid fuel boosters ever flown.Throw in the fact that the Shuttle probably has the most hypersonic flight time of any vehicle and you have a really treasure trove of useful information.Yes the Shuttle was too expensive per flight but really is a technological marvel an one that has produced a lot very useful knowledge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072502</id>
	<title>He got away with it.</title>
	<author>Majik Sheff</author>
	<datestamp>1265733180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's 74 years old, he'll never see the end of this sentence.  He lived what appears to be a good life living in the country he was betraying (about 3M worth of good life from TFA).  His nursing home arrangements are less than desirable but he'll still have better care than many seniors in this country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's 74 years old , he 'll never see the end of this sentence .
He lived what appears to be a good life living in the country he was betraying ( about 3M worth of good life from TFA ) .
His nursing home arrangements are less than desirable but he 'll still have better care than many seniors in this country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's 74 years old, he'll never see the end of this sentence.
He lived what appears to be a good life living in the country he was betraying (about 3M worth of good life from TFA).
His nursing home arrangements are less than desirable but he'll still have better care than many seniors in this country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072604</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Sollord</author>
	<datestamp>1265733660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>yeah but it's china they will run it like we originally designed it with out the 6month maintenance delay before the same shuttle can launch again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>yeah but it 's china they will run it like we originally designed it with out the 6month maintenance delay before the same shuttle can launch again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yeah but it's china they will run it like we originally designed it with out the 6month maintenance delay before the same shuttle can launch again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075656</id>
	<title>spying not all ordered by government</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1265744700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would call just an another kind of money-making business. Much of it is self-directed with the intent to sell it to an agency or business, to sell it directly, or to start a business with it. I suspect this holds true for internet-hacking: lots of it is self-directed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would call just an another kind of money-making business .
Much of it is self-directed with the intent to sell it to an agency or business , to sell it directly , or to start a business with it .
I suspect this holds true for internet-hacking : lots of it is self-directed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would call just an another kind of money-making business.
Much of it is self-directed with the intent to sell it to an agency or business, to sell it directly, or to start a business with it.
I suspect this holds true for internet-hacking: lots of it is self-directed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072592</id>
	<title>That's not strong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>China won't consider 15 years a strong sentence when they're happy to execute people left right and centre.</htmltext>
<tokenext>China wo n't consider 15 years a strong sentence when they 're happy to execute people left right and centre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China won't consider 15 years a strong sentence when they're happy to execute people left right and centre.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072844</id>
	<title>He was just a bit too early...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1265734560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I heard on the radio that after the final shuttle mission NASA will be selling off the shuttles.  Why try to smuggle out the information when you can just buy the shuttle outright and reverse engineer the entire thing in your own country?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I heard on the radio that after the final shuttle mission NASA will be selling off the shuttles .
Why try to smuggle out the information when you can just buy the shuttle outright and reverse engineer the entire thing in your own country ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heard on the radio that after the final shuttle mission NASA will be selling off the shuttles.
Why try to smuggle out the information when you can just buy the shuttle outright and reverse engineer the entire thing in your own country?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</id>
	<title>15 years?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265732940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty. No New York trials. He's a spy, stealing information that can be used against us. When are we going to acknowledge that we are at (cyber) war with China, have been for years, and start acting accordingly?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Send him to Gitmo , then death penalty .
No New York trials .
He 's a spy , stealing information that can be used against us .
When are we going to acknowledge that we are at ( cyber ) war with China , have been for years , and start acting accordingly ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty.
No New York trials.
He's a spy, stealing information that can be used against us.
When are we going to acknowledge that we are at (cyber) war with China, have been for years, and start acting accordingly?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072522</id>
	<title>China</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me Chinese<br>Me play joke<br>Me go pee-pee in your coke</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me ChineseMe play jokeMe go pee-pee in your coke</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me ChineseMe play jokeMe go pee-pee in your coke</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076200</id>
	<title>Re:Web 2.0 why not Cold War 2.0</title>
	<author>rsborg</author>
	<datestamp>1265746380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Nothing like calling up China and saying, "Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy. Wanna play the bad guy for a generation or two?"</p></div></blockquote><p>Amusing, but you forget, unlike the USSR, the P.R. of China owns several trillions of dollars of our collective asses... and you can thank the past four administrations for that situation (especially "W").</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing like calling up China and saying , " Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy .
Wan na play the bad guy for a generation or two ?
" Amusing , but you forget , unlike the USSR , the P.R .
of China owns several trillions of dollars of our collective asses... and you can thank the past four administrations for that situation ( especially " W " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing like calling up China and saying, "Hey that Cold War thing with Russia was real good for the economy.
Wanna play the bad guy for a generation or two?
"Amusing, but you forget, unlike the USSR, the P.R.
of China owns several trillions of dollars of our collective asses... and you can thank the past four administrations for that situation (especially "W").
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073924</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>BlueBoxSW.com</author>
	<datestamp>1265738340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are never getting that money back. Let's be serious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are never getting that money back .
Let 's be serious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are never getting that money back.
Let's be serious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073756</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1265737860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty. No New York trials. He's a spy, stealing information that can be used against us.</p></div> </blockquote><p>If you allowed people to be executed without trial when accused of being spies, I'm sure you'd be <em>amazed</em> at how many spies suddenly turn up. And by an even more amazing coincidence, all of them would be people someone in power didn't like. A bit like every other time when someone's word has been enough to send people to gallows.</p><p>Learn to use your brains even when offended, please.</p><blockquote><div><p>When are we going to acknowledge that we are at (cyber) war with China, have been for years, and start acting accordingly?</p></div> </blockquote><p>Does it make sense to execute spies? It's never stopped people from spying, so it's not an effective deterrent, and it's not like they deserve it any more or less than any other enemy troops do. Keep them imprisoned and exchange for your own spies.</p><p>Besides, I'm not sure that US can really afford any new wars, especially with China. They manufacture all your stuff nowadays, you know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Send him to Gitmo , then death penalty .
No New York trials .
He 's a spy , stealing information that can be used against us .
If you allowed people to be executed without trial when accused of being spies , I 'm sure you 'd be amazed at how many spies suddenly turn up .
And by an even more amazing coincidence , all of them would be people someone in power did n't like .
A bit like every other time when someone 's word has been enough to send people to gallows.Learn to use your brains even when offended , please.When are we going to acknowledge that we are at ( cyber ) war with China , have been for years , and start acting accordingly ?
Does it make sense to execute spies ?
It 's never stopped people from spying , so it 's not an effective deterrent , and it 's not like they deserve it any more or less than any other enemy troops do .
Keep them imprisoned and exchange for your own spies.Besides , I 'm not sure that US can really afford any new wars , especially with China .
They manufacture all your stuff nowadays , you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty.
No New York trials.
He's a spy, stealing information that can be used against us.
If you allowed people to be executed without trial when accused of being spies, I'm sure you'd be amazed at how many spies suddenly turn up.
And by an even more amazing coincidence, all of them would be people someone in power didn't like.
A bit like every other time when someone's word has been enough to send people to gallows.Learn to use your brains even when offended, please.When are we going to acknowledge that we are at (cyber) war with China, have been for years, and start acting accordingly?
Does it make sense to execute spies?
It's never stopped people from spying, so it's not an effective deterrent, and it's not like they deserve it any more or less than any other enemy troops do.
Keep them imprisoned and exchange for your own spies.Besides, I'm not sure that US can really afford any new wars, especially with China.
They manufacture all your stuff nowadays, you know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075322</id>
	<title>Bad guy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265743500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He said he wanted to write a book and that is the reason he borrowed the papers. Probably some jealous douches reported him as a spy.<br>Moreover, they take cases against individuals and term them into "examples" and provide so called justice and as such. If it was a company doing this they would probably would have gone scratch free and would be sent home with some bonuses, a couple of bailouts and a kiss on the bum.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He said he wanted to write a book and that is the reason he borrowed the papers .
Probably some jealous douches reported him as a spy.Moreover , they take cases against individuals and term them into " examples " and provide so called justice and as such .
If it was a company doing this they would probably would have gone scratch free and would be sent home with some bonuses , a couple of bailouts and a kiss on the bum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He said he wanted to write a book and that is the reason he borrowed the papers.
Probably some jealous douches reported him as a spy.Moreover, they take cases against individuals and term them into "examples" and provide so called justice and as such.
If it was a company doing this they would probably would have gone scratch free and would be sent home with some bonuses, a couple of bailouts and a kiss on the bum.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</id>
	<title>Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In many countries spying results in the death penalty, why not in this case? Spying is a grevious crime against one's country and has been handled by the death penalty across countless cultures since before recorded history. For that matter, if your in a position of trust (vs just sneaking around) than it isn't spying, but treason. With a sentence of 15 years we appear to be weak, not strong from the eyes of someone who could consider the crime.</p><p>Certainly a spy that was caught by China would receive the death penalty, so nothing new there. Nothing against the Chinese (vs another nationality), but this business of pandering to foreign governments that spy against us has got to end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In many countries spying results in the death penalty , why not in this case ?
Spying is a grevious crime against one 's country and has been handled by the death penalty across countless cultures since before recorded history .
For that matter , if your in a position of trust ( vs just sneaking around ) than it is n't spying , but treason .
With a sentence of 15 years we appear to be weak , not strong from the eyes of someone who could consider the crime.Certainly a spy that was caught by China would receive the death penalty , so nothing new there .
Nothing against the Chinese ( vs another nationality ) , but this business of pandering to foreign governments that spy against us has got to end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In many countries spying results in the death penalty, why not in this case?
Spying is a grevious crime against one's country and has been handled by the death penalty across countless cultures since before recorded history.
For that matter, if your in a position of trust (vs just sneaking around) than it isn't spying, but treason.
With a sentence of 15 years we appear to be weak, not strong from the eyes of someone who could consider the crime.Certainly a spy that was caught by China would receive the death penalty, so nothing new there.
Nothing against the Chinese (vs another nationality), but this business of pandering to foreign governments that spy against us has got to end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31078430</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>dwye</author>
	<datestamp>1265711940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty. No New York trials. He's a spy</p><p>But this is not a declared war.  Soviet spies were not executed during the Cold War (except sometimes by the ordinary cons), they were given sentences of several decades, and sometimes traded for our agents that the Other Side had captured.</p><p>Anyway, if he is a spy, we should have turned him and fed disinformation to the Chinese, or chicken feed to set them up for a big whopper.  The only reason to publicly arrest and imprison him is to prove the bona fides of some disinformation that he sent.</p><p>Oh, wait.  Never mind. Ignore what I just said.  We would never use a spy to send back the information that we wanted an adversary to believe.  Everything that he stole and sent along is of the highest importance, and we will be reduced to slaves if the Chinese ever use it.  Yeah, that's the ticket.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Send him to Gitmo , then death penalty .
No New York trials .
He 's a spyBut this is not a declared war .
Soviet spies were not executed during the Cold War ( except sometimes by the ordinary cons ) , they were given sentences of several decades , and sometimes traded for our agents that the Other Side had captured.Anyway , if he is a spy , we should have turned him and fed disinformation to the Chinese , or chicken feed to set them up for a big whopper .
The only reason to publicly arrest and imprison him is to prove the bona fides of some disinformation that he sent.Oh , wait .
Never mind .
Ignore what I just said .
We would never use a spy to send back the information that we wanted an adversary to believe .
Everything that he stole and sent along is of the highest importance , and we will be reduced to slaves if the Chinese ever use it .
Yeah , that 's the ticket .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Send him to Gitmo, then death penalty.
No New York trials.
He's a spyBut this is not a declared war.
Soviet spies were not executed during the Cold War (except sometimes by the ordinary cons), they were given sentences of several decades, and sometimes traded for our agents that the Other Side had captured.Anyway, if he is a spy, we should have turned him and fed disinformation to the Chinese, or chicken feed to set them up for a big whopper.
The only reason to publicly arrest and imprison him is to prove the bona fides of some disinformation that he sent.Oh, wait.
Never mind.
Ignore what I just said.
We would never use a spy to send back the information that we wanted an adversary to believe.
Everything that he stole and sent along is of the highest importance, and we will be reduced to slaves if the Chinese ever use it.
Yeah, that's the ticket.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072646</id>
	<title>Re:Jsut make it open</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ditto.  Even most of the defense-related stuff should be made freely available.  I think that the progress that society would see moving forward would outstrip the damage that any wars could cause due to acquiring this tech.  Defense tech doesn't have that much of an edge anymore, anyway.  Capitalism works.  Industrial stuff is better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ditto .
Even most of the defense-related stuff should be made freely available .
I think that the progress that society would see moving forward would outstrip the damage that any wars could cause due to acquiring this tech .
Defense tech does n't have that much of an edge anymore , anyway .
Capitalism works .
Industrial stuff is better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ditto.
Even most of the defense-related stuff should be made freely available.
I think that the progress that society would see moving forward would outstrip the damage that any wars could cause due to acquiring this tech.
Defense tech doesn't have that much of an edge anymore, anyway.
Capitalism works.
Industrial stuff is better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074504</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>mrxak</author>
	<datestamp>1265740680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're not going to build their own space shuttle if they get their hands on our space shuttle plans. They'll learn from our designs and build something else like a missile, or use the material science for some new fighter jet. It's better they start from scratch than get a leg-up from our designs. The shuttle may be obsolete, but what do you think we use to learn from and improve on?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're not going to build their own space shuttle if they get their hands on our space shuttle plans .
They 'll learn from our designs and build something else like a missile , or use the material science for some new fighter jet .
It 's better they start from scratch than get a leg-up from our designs .
The shuttle may be obsolete , but what do you think we use to learn from and improve on ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're not going to build their own space shuttle if they get their hands on our space shuttle plans.
They'll learn from our designs and build something else like a missile, or use the material science for some new fighter jet.
It's better they start from scratch than get a leg-up from our designs.
The shuttle may be obsolete, but what do you think we use to learn from and improve on?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074720</id>
	<title>Re:Web 2.0 why not Cold War 2.0</title>
	<author>braindrainbahrain</author>
	<datestamp>1265741460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See the following quotes from Chinee officials, as published in the London Sunday Times:</p><p>"<br>China's Hawks Demand Cold War On The US:  MORE than half of Chinese people questioned in a poll believe China and America are heading for a new &ldquo;cold war&rdquo;. The finding came after battles over Taiwan, Tibet, trade, climate change, internet freedom and human rights which have poisoned relations in the three months since President Barack Obama made a fruitless visit to Beijing. According to diplomatic sources, a rancorous postmortem examination is under way inside the US government, led by officials who think the president was badly advised and was made to appear weak. In China&rsquo;s eyes, the American response &mdash; which includes a pledge by Obama to get tougher on trade &mdash; is a reaction against its rising power. Now almost 55\% of those questioned for Global Times, a state-run newspaper, agree that &ldquo;a cold war will break out between the US and China&rdquo;. An independent survey of Chinese-language media for The Sunday Times has found army and navy officers predicting a military showdown and political leaders calling for China to sell more arms to America&rsquo;s foes. The trigger for their fury was Obama&rsquo;s decision to sell $6.4 billion (&pound;4 billion) worth of weapons to Taiwan, the thriving democratic island that has ruled itself since 1949. &ldquo;We should retaliate with an eye for an eye and sell arms to Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela,&rdquo; declared Liu Menxiong, a member of the Chinese people&rsquo;s political consultative conference. He added: &ldquo;We have nothing to be afraid of. The North Koreans have stood up to America and has anything happened to them? No. Iran stands up to America and does disaster befall it? No.&rdquo; Officially, China has reacted by threatening sanctions against American companies selling arms to Taiwan and cancelling military visits.</p><p>But Chinese analysts think the leadership, riding a wave of patriotism as the year of the tiger dawns, may go further. &ldquo;This time China must punish the US,&rdquo; said Major-General Yang Yi, a naval officer. &ldquo;We must make them hurt.&rdquo; A major-general in the People&rsquo;s Liberation Army (PLA), Luo Yuan, told a television audience that more missiles would be deployed against Taiwan. And a PLA strategist, Colonel Meng Xianging, said China would &ldquo;qualitatively upgrade&rdquo; its military over the next 10 years to force a showdown &ldquo;when we&rsquo;re strong enough for a hand-to-hand fight with the US&rdquo;. Chinese indignation was compounded when the White House said Obama would meet the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, in the next few weeks. In reality, Chinese officials argued over every item of protocol, rigged a town hall meeting with a pre-selected audience, censored the only interview Obama gave to a Chinese newspaper and forbade the Americans to use their own helicopters to fly him to the Great Wall. President Hu Jintao refused to give an inch on Obama&rsquo;s plea to raise the value of the Chinese currency, while his vague promises of co-operation on climate change led the Americans to blunder into a fiasco at the Copenhagen summit three weeks later. Diplomats say they have been told that there was &ldquo;frigid&rdquo; personal chemistry between Obama and the Chinese president, with none of the superficial friendship struck up by previous leaders of the two nations. Yet after their meeting Obama&rsquo;s China adviser, Jeff Bader, said: &ldquo;It&rsquo;s been highly successful in setting out and accomplishing the objectives we set ourselves.&rdquo; (London Sunday Times, 2/07)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See the following quotes from Chinee officials , as published in the London Sunday Times : " China 's Hawks Demand Cold War On The US : MORE than half of Chinese people questioned in a poll believe China and America are heading for a new    cold war    .
The finding came after battles over Taiwan , Tibet , trade , climate change , internet freedom and human rights which have poisoned relations in the three months since President Barack Obama made a fruitless visit to Beijing .
According to diplomatic sources , a rancorous postmortem examination is under way inside the US government , led by officials who think the president was badly advised and was made to appear weak .
In China    s eyes , the American response    which includes a pledge by Obama to get tougher on trade    is a reaction against its rising power .
Now almost 55 \ % of those questioned for Global Times , a state-run newspaper , agree that    a cold war will break out between the US and China    .
An independent survey of Chinese-language media for The Sunday Times has found army and navy officers predicting a military showdown and political leaders calling for China to sell more arms to America    s foes .
The trigger for their fury was Obama    s decision to sell $ 6.4 billion (   4 billion ) worth of weapons to Taiwan , the thriving democratic island that has ruled itself since 1949 .
   We should retaliate with an eye for an eye and sell arms to Iran , North Korea , Syria , Cuba and Venezuela ,    declared Liu Menxiong , a member of the Chinese people    s political consultative conference .
He added :    We have nothing to be afraid of .
The North Koreans have stood up to America and has anything happened to them ?
No. Iran stands up to America and does disaster befall it ?
No.    Officially , China has reacted by threatening sanctions against American companies selling arms to Taiwan and cancelling military visits.But Chinese analysts think the leadership , riding a wave of patriotism as the year of the tiger dawns , may go further .
   This time China must punish the US ,    said Major-General Yang Yi , a naval officer .
   We must make them hurt.    A major-general in the People    s Liberation Army ( PLA ) , Luo Yuan , told a television audience that more missiles would be deployed against Taiwan .
And a PLA strategist , Colonel Meng Xianging , said China would    qualitatively upgrade    its military over the next 10 years to force a showdown    when we    re strong enough for a hand-to-hand fight with the US    .
Chinese indignation was compounded when the White House said Obama would meet the Dalai Lama , the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet , in the next few weeks .
In reality , Chinese officials argued over every item of protocol , rigged a town hall meeting with a pre-selected audience , censored the only interview Obama gave to a Chinese newspaper and forbade the Americans to use their own helicopters to fly him to the Great Wall .
President Hu Jintao refused to give an inch on Obama    s plea to raise the value of the Chinese currency , while his vague promises of co-operation on climate change led the Americans to blunder into a fiasco at the Copenhagen summit three weeks later .
Diplomats say they have been told that there was    frigid    personal chemistry between Obama and the Chinese president , with none of the superficial friendship struck up by previous leaders of the two nations .
Yet after their meeting Obama    s China adviser , Jeff Bader , said :    It    s been highly successful in setting out and accomplishing the objectives we set ourselves.    ( London Sunday Times , 2/07 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See the following quotes from Chinee officials, as published in the London Sunday Times:"China's Hawks Demand Cold War On The US:  MORE than half of Chinese people questioned in a poll believe China and America are heading for a new “cold war”.
The finding came after battles over Taiwan, Tibet, trade, climate change, internet freedom and human rights which have poisoned relations in the three months since President Barack Obama made a fruitless visit to Beijing.
According to diplomatic sources, a rancorous postmortem examination is under way inside the US government, led by officials who think the president was badly advised and was made to appear weak.
In China’s eyes, the American response — which includes a pledge by Obama to get tougher on trade — is a reaction against its rising power.
Now almost 55\% of those questioned for Global Times, a state-run newspaper, agree that “a cold war will break out between the US and China”.
An independent survey of Chinese-language media for The Sunday Times has found army and navy officers predicting a military showdown and political leaders calling for China to sell more arms to America’s foes.
The trigger for their fury was Obama’s decision to sell $6.4 billion (£4 billion) worth of weapons to Taiwan, the thriving democratic island that has ruled itself since 1949.
“We should retaliate with an eye for an eye and sell arms to Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela,” declared Liu Menxiong, a member of the Chinese people’s political consultative conference.
He added: “We have nothing to be afraid of.
The North Koreans have stood up to America and has anything happened to them?
No. Iran stands up to America and does disaster befall it?
No.” Officially, China has reacted by threatening sanctions against American companies selling arms to Taiwan and cancelling military visits.But Chinese analysts think the leadership, riding a wave of patriotism as the year of the tiger dawns, may go further.
“This time China must punish the US,” said Major-General Yang Yi, a naval officer.
“We must make them hurt.” A major-general in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), Luo Yuan, told a television audience that more missiles would be deployed against Taiwan.
And a PLA strategist, Colonel Meng Xianging, said China would “qualitatively upgrade” its military over the next 10 years to force a showdown “when we’re strong enough for a hand-to-hand fight with the US”.
Chinese indignation was compounded when the White House said Obama would meet the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, in the next few weeks.
In reality, Chinese officials argued over every item of protocol, rigged a town hall meeting with a pre-selected audience, censored the only interview Obama gave to a Chinese newspaper and forbade the Americans to use their own helicopters to fly him to the Great Wall.
President Hu Jintao refused to give an inch on Obama’s plea to raise the value of the Chinese currency, while his vague promises of co-operation on climate change led the Americans to blunder into a fiasco at the Copenhagen summit three weeks later.
Diplomats say they have been told that there was “frigid” personal chemistry between Obama and the Chinese president, with none of the superficial friendship struck up by previous leaders of the two nations.
Yet after their meeting Obama’s China adviser, Jeff Bader, said: “It’s been highly successful in setting out and accomplishing the objectives we set ourselves.” (London Sunday Times, 2/07)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072724</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>sadness203</author>
	<datestamp>1265734140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh please... he was doing the US a service... When the Chinese will mass product cheap part for the shuttle, it'll be easy to launch massive payload each week in the sky. Ok<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Half of the launches will finish in a huge fireball because of the cheap part... But still. This guy should be decorated!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh please... he was doing the US a service... When the Chinese will mass product cheap part for the shuttle , it 'll be easy to launch massive payload each week in the sky .
Ok ... Half of the launches will finish in a huge fireball because of the cheap part... But still .
This guy should be decorated !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh please... he was doing the US a service... When the Chinese will mass product cheap part for the shuttle, it'll be easy to launch massive payload each week in the sky.
Ok ... Half of the launches will finish in a huge fireball because of the cheap part... But still.
This guy should be decorated!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31090258</id>
	<title>Re:i'm going to get modded troll...</title>
	<author>smithmc</author>
	<datestamp>1265016660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government. It's like wondering why a Baptist is republican.</p></div><p>OK, but then pardon the naive question - if they love China so damn much, then why do they come here?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it 's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government .
It 's like wondering why a Baptist is republican.OK , but then pardon the naive question - if they love China so damn much , then why do they come here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Recall that China officially and overtly indoctrinates it's citizens to be pro-Chinese-government.
It's like wondering why a Baptist is republican.OK, but then pardon the naive question - if they love China so damn much, then why do they come here?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072942</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075114</id>
	<title>intent? seems a bit nebulous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265742900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone here gets 15 years for hoarding porn with intent to rape.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone here gets 15 years for hoarding porn with intent to rape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone here gets 15 years for hoarding porn with intent to rape.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076524</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>CrimsonAvenger</author>
	<datestamp>1265747640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them.</p></div></blockquote><p>No, that would be the best thing we could do to them.  They get interest every year, after all.  <br>Plus the ability to screw with us by either dumping the T-bills or threatening same gives them clout that they wouldn't otherwise have.
</p><p>The worst thing we could do to them is rearrange our budget so we have a surplus every year, and pay off our loans from China and everyone else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them.No , that would be the best thing we could do to them .
They get interest every year , after all .
Plus the ability to screw with us by either dumping the T-bills or threatening same gives them clout that they would n't otherwise have .
The worst thing we could do to them is rearrange our budget so we have a surplus every year , and pay off our loans from China and everyone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them.No, that would be the best thing we could do to them.
They get interest every year, after all.
Plus the ability to screw with us by either dumping the T-bills or threatening same gives them clout that they wouldn't otherwise have.
The worst thing we could do to them is rearrange our budget so we have a surplus every year, and pay off our loans from China and everyone else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31076548</id>
	<title>Re:Let them have the plans</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1265747760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wish that I had not posted, and instead had chosen to moderate. I would have hit you as a troll or overrated (stupid if I could). America is going back to the moon. This time, we are going back with private space as well as our partners from the ISS, maybe more. I suspect that India and maybe Brazil will be invited. I have little doubt that we will be back on the moon by 2020. And as to these engines, they will be used again for Direct.<br> <br>
If we build Ares V NOW, we will kill NASA and our ability to go the moon. TO jump from 30 MT to leo  to sending 188 MT to leo is expensive and foolish. Instead of launching 1-2 PER month, we will end up launching 2-3 times a year. BIG WASTE. What we really want is to build up our space infrastructure so that we are launching 2-5x EACH MONTH. From there, when we are ready to go to the moon, we need to have a LV that can do 70MT/leo. That is what Direct Jupiter (which uses the SSME) would have. Once we have more than just boots on the moon (as in setting down a base), THEN we need to have constellation caliber. BUT, if we build Ares V today, it KILLS the moon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish that I had not posted , and instead had chosen to moderate .
I would have hit you as a troll or overrated ( stupid if I could ) .
America is going back to the moon .
This time , we are going back with private space as well as our partners from the ISS , maybe more .
I suspect that India and maybe Brazil will be invited .
I have little doubt that we will be back on the moon by 2020 .
And as to these engines , they will be used again for Direct .
If we build Ares V NOW , we will kill NASA and our ability to go the moon .
TO jump from 30 MT to leo to sending 188 MT to leo is expensive and foolish .
Instead of launching 1-2 PER month , we will end up launching 2-3 times a year .
BIG WASTE .
What we really want is to build up our space infrastructure so that we are launching 2-5x EACH MONTH .
From there , when we are ready to go to the moon , we need to have a LV that can do 70MT/leo .
That is what Direct Jupiter ( which uses the SSME ) would have .
Once we have more than just boots on the moon ( as in setting down a base ) , THEN we need to have constellation caliber .
BUT , if we build Ares V today , it KILLS the moon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish that I had not posted, and instead had chosen to moderate.
I would have hit you as a troll or overrated (stupid if I could).
America is going back to the moon.
This time, we are going back with private space as well as our partners from the ISS, maybe more.
I suspect that India and maybe Brazil will be invited.
I have little doubt that we will be back on the moon by 2020.
And as to these engines, they will be used again for Direct.
If we build Ares V NOW, we will kill NASA and our ability to go the moon.
TO jump from 30 MT to leo  to sending 188 MT to leo is expensive and foolish.
Instead of launching 1-2 PER month, we will end up launching 2-3 times a year.
BIG WASTE.
What we really want is to build up our space infrastructure so that we are launching 2-5x EACH MONTH.
From there, when we are ready to go to the moon, we need to have a LV that can do 70MT/leo.
That is what Direct Jupiter (which uses the SSME) would have.
Once we have more than just boots on the moon (as in setting down a base), THEN we need to have constellation caliber.
BUT, if we build Ares V today, it KILLS the moon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072390</id>
	<title>If only...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265732760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If only the shuttle was run by Google, they'd have a better chance of gaining access...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If only the shuttle was run by Google , they 'd have a better chance of gaining access.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only the shuttle was run by Google, they'd have a better chance of gaining access...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072998</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Hadlock</author>
	<datestamp>1265735220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He really should have gotten the death penalty. I'm not a right wing defense nut, but treason, particularly millitary treason (take a look at the early history of the space program(s) in the USA on wikipedia) needs to be dealt with in a swift manner. 15 years is not going to cut it, and eventually he's going to make it back to China and live a very comfortable life. 15 years (how many of that will be probation???) is a small price to pay to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of your life, especially coming from China.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He really should have gotten the death penalty .
I 'm not a right wing defense nut , but treason , particularly millitary treason ( take a look at the early history of the space program ( s ) in the USA on wikipedia ) needs to be dealt with in a swift manner .
15 years is not going to cut it , and eventually he 's going to make it back to China and live a very comfortable life .
15 years ( how many of that will be probation ? ? ?
) is a small price to pay to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of your life , especially coming from China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He really should have gotten the death penalty.
I'm not a right wing defense nut, but treason, particularly millitary treason (take a look at the early history of the space program(s) in the USA on wikipedia) needs to be dealt with in a swift manner.
15 years is not going to cut it, and eventually he's going to make it back to China and live a very comfortable life.
15 years (how many of that will be probation???
) is a small price to pay to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of your life, especially coming from China.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073234</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>DriedClexler</author>
	<datestamp>1265736060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not true -- I have some old newspapers talking about how Eastasia is our ally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not true -- I have some old newspapers talking about how Eastasia is our ally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not true -- I have some old newspapers talking about how Eastasia is our ally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075304</id>
	<title>Re:Why not the death penalty?</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1265743440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In many countries spying results in the death penalty, why not in this case?</p></div><p>Because the US is still trying to maintain the illusion that they hold a greater respect for human rights than those other countries.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In many countries spying results in the death penalty , why not in this case ? Because the US is still trying to maintain the illusion that they hold a greater respect for human rights than those other countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In many countries spying results in the death penalty, why not in this case?Because the US is still trying to maintain the illusion that they hold a greater respect for human rights than those other countries.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074454</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>dosilegecko</author>
	<datestamp>1265740440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My friend, the spy trading business is a dirty, dangerous, and convoluted wash that no one wants to acknowledge.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My friend , the spy trading business is a dirty , dangerous , and convoluted wash that no one wants to acknowledge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My friend, the spy trading business is a dirty, dangerous, and convoluted wash that no one wants to acknowledge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074546</id>
	<title>love your country always</title>
	<author>vxice</author>
	<datestamp>1265740800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>love your country always, your government when it deserves it.  simply as that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>love your country always , your government when it deserves it .
simply as that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>love your country always, your government when it deserves it.
simply as that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072630</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074086</id>
	<title>Re:Concorde vs. Concordski</title>
	<author>chrysrobyn</author>
	<datestamp>1265738940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Ironically, Concorde's tires proved to be fatal.</p></div></blockquote><p>While a stray piece of titanium from a previous jetliner <i>may</i> have shredded the tire and caused the fuel tank to puncture, I think I could more readily argue that the fuel tank having insufficient protection is the real problem.  I would prefer to have any kind of tire event keep all passengers, structural elements and fuel tanks intact.  Judging from the amount of abuse subsonic jetliners have sustained over the last 40 years, and the fact that Concordes were retrofitted with better tank protection before the economy tanked and they were all grounded, I really have a hard time blaming the tires.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically , Concorde 's tires proved to be fatal.While a stray piece of titanium from a previous jetliner may have shredded the tire and caused the fuel tank to puncture , I think I could more readily argue that the fuel tank having insufficient protection is the real problem .
I would prefer to have any kind of tire event keep all passengers , structural elements and fuel tanks intact .
Judging from the amount of abuse subsonic jetliners have sustained over the last 40 years , and the fact that Concordes were retrofitted with better tank protection before the economy tanked and they were all grounded , I really have a hard time blaming the tires .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically, Concorde's tires proved to be fatal.While a stray piece of titanium from a previous jetliner may have shredded the tire and caused the fuel tank to puncture, I think I could more readily argue that the fuel tank having insufficient protection is the real problem.
I would prefer to have any kind of tire event keep all passengers, structural elements and fuel tanks intact.
Judging from the amount of abuse subsonic jetliners have sustained over the last 40 years, and the fact that Concordes were retrofitted with better tank protection before the economy tanked and they were all grounded, I really have a hard time blaming the tires.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073426</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31073370</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>mforbes</author>
	<datestamp>1265736600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, the parts will be cheap, but the lead paint will make the Chinese version too heavy to fly!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , the parts will be cheap , but the lead paint will make the Chinese version too heavy to fly !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, the parts will be cheap, but the lead paint will make the Chinese version too heavy to fly!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072628</id>
	<title>Sensitive?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265733720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How sensitive can that technology be when we're retiring the space shuttle soon and have no replacements past the drawing board stage?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How sensitive can that technology be when we 're retiring the space shuttle soon and have no replacements past the drawing board stage ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How sensitive can that technology be when we're retiring the space shuttle soon and have no replacements past the drawing board stage?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072706</id>
	<title>Red herring</title>
	<author>jockeys</author>
	<datestamp>1265734080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Am I the only one who thinks the $3M remark is a red herring?
<br> <br>
Treason is treason regardless of how much money you make doing it.  He should swing for this, treason still has the death penalty.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one who thinks the $ 3M remark is a red herring ?
Treason is treason regardless of how much money you make doing it .
He should swing for this , treason still has the death penalty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one who thinks the $3M remark is a red herring?
Treason is treason regardless of how much money you make doing it.
He should swing for this, treason still has the death penalty.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072786</id>
	<title>Re:Ha, he should get a medal</title>
	<author>Antony-Kyre</author>
	<datestamp>1265734380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't America in debt to China for billions or trillions of dollars? I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't America in debt to China for billions or trillions of dollars ?
I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't America in debt to China for billions or trillions of dollars?
I say not repaying the loan to China would be the worst thing we could do to them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31075774</id>
	<title>Re:It's only fair</title>
	<author>jriding</author>
	<datestamp>1265745000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you really agree with this then we should pay $0.10 per gallon of gas.<br>I mean we went in and helped out Iraq so lets "take" some of that oil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you really agree with this then we should pay $ 0.10 per gallon of gas.I mean we went in and helped out Iraq so lets " take " some of that oil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you really agree with this then we should pay $0.10 per gallon of gas.I mean we went in and helped out Iraq so lets "take" some of that oil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072772</id>
	<title>say pee pee and poo poo fun words!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265734320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>pee pee poo poo</p><p>say it now and giggle</p><p>you will enjoy it</p><p>love,</p><p>pee pee</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>pee pee poo poosay it now and giggleyou will enjoy itlove,pee pee</tokentext>
<sentencetext>pee pee poo poosay it now and giggleyou will enjoy itlove,pee pee</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31074726</id>
	<title>I haven't seen a single MOSSAD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265741520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>get the death penalty for planning 9/11.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>get the death penalty for planning 9/11 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>get the death penalty for planning 9/11.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31089986</id>
	<title>Re:15 years?</title>
	<author>Asic Eng</author>
	<datestamp>1265014920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He's not a spy until he has been convicted. There is a reason why we follow proper procedures in any other kind of trial: it's the only system that works and protects our freedom. US courts work, the US constitution works. Military dictatorships with monkey justice don't work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's not a spy until he has been convicted .
There is a reason why we follow proper procedures in any other kind of trial : it 's the only system that works and protects our freedom .
US courts work , the US constitution works .
Military dictatorships with monkey justice do n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's not a spy until he has been convicted.
There is a reason why we follow proper procedures in any other kind of trial: it's the only system that works and protects our freedom.
US courts work, the US constitution works.
Military dictatorships with monkey justice don't work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_09_1435230.31072442</parent>
</comment>
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