<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_05_1727233</id>
	<title>Xbox Live For Original Xbox Games Shutting Down</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1265398980000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>itwbennett writes <i>"Giving no explanation beyond that it 'will provide the greatest benefit to the Xbox LIVE community,' Microsoft's General Manager for Xbox Live, Mark Whitten, announced that as of April 15th, Microsoft will be <a href="http://gamerscoreblog.com/press/archive/2010/02/05/gh789.aspx">shutting down its Xbox Live service for the original Xbox</a> and its games. 'Cold comfort for those of you who still enjoy playing Xbox titles like <em>Halo 2</em> with your friends,' writes blogger Peter Smith. But Smith notes that Whitten's announcement does hint at <a href="http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/95540/microsoft-shutting-down-xbox-live-original-xbox-games">some form of restitution for those affected</a>, encouraging users to check their LIVE messages for more details and opportunities."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>itwbennett writes " Giving no explanation beyond that it 'will provide the greatest benefit to the Xbox LIVE community, ' Microsoft 's General Manager for Xbox Live , Mark Whitten , announced that as of April 15th , Microsoft will be shutting down its Xbox Live service for the original Xbox and its games .
'Cold comfort for those of you who still enjoy playing Xbox titles like Halo 2 with your friends, ' writes blogger Peter Smith .
But Smith notes that Whitten 's announcement does hint at some form of restitution for those affected , encouraging users to check their LIVE messages for more details and opportunities .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>itwbennett writes "Giving no explanation beyond that it 'will provide the greatest benefit to the Xbox LIVE community,' Microsoft's General Manager for Xbox Live, Mark Whitten, announced that as of April 15th, Microsoft will be shutting down its Xbox Live service for the original Xbox and its games.
'Cold comfort for those of you who still enjoy playing Xbox titles like Halo 2 with your friends,' writes blogger Peter Smith.
But Smith notes that Whitten's announcement does hint at some form of restitution for those affected, encouraging users to check their LIVE messages for more details and opportunities.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Jorl17</author>
	<datestamp>1265402760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...<br>
Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why. Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever.. . Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated , no matter when , no matter how , no matter why .
Microsoft can and Microsoft shall , that 's the price for being at their hands .
The reward ?
To get to use their products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...
Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why.
Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands.
The reward?
To get to use their products.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042976</id>
	<title>Nice quote from the company</title>
	<author>Kalewa</author>
	<datestamp>1265388240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm amused by how little companies even try to not make it sound like they're lying.  Shutting down XBL is good for XBL customers.  Oh, of course, why didn't I think of that.  Here I just assumed it was because subscription levels had reached a low enough point that it was no in Microsoft's financial interest to continue to support it.  Too bad I and the gaming public are too dumb to understand things like that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm amused by how little companies even try to not make it sound like they 're lying .
Shutting down XBL is good for XBL customers .
Oh , of course , why did n't I think of that .
Here I just assumed it was because subscription levels had reached a low enough point that it was no in Microsoft 's financial interest to continue to support it .
Too bad I and the gaming public are too dumb to understand things like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm amused by how little companies even try to not make it sound like they're lying.
Shutting down XBL is good for XBL customers.
Oh, of course, why didn't I think of that.
Here I just assumed it was because subscription levels had reached a low enough point that it was no in Microsoft's financial interest to continue to support it.
Too bad I and the gaming public are too dumb to understand things like that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038290</id>
	<title>So I guess you would call it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265402700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Xbox Dead... goodnight everybody, I'll be here all week.  Remember to tip your waitress.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Xbox Dead... goodnight everybody , I 'll be here all week .
Remember to tip your waitress .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xbox Dead... goodnight everybody, I'll be here all week.
Remember to tip your waitress.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039388</id>
	<title>Re:HA HA HA Serves you suckers right!</title>
	<author>Admiralbumblebee</author>
	<datestamp>1265364360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sony has not announced that PSN will be pay-only.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sony has not announced that PSN will be pay-only .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sony has not announced that PSN will be pay-only.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31105760</id>
	<title>End of an Era</title>
	<author>catd77</author>
	<datestamp>1265885940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the end of an era I guess.  The Xbox ushered in the era of online gaming.  Now every major game touts "online capabilities".</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the end of an era I guess .
The Xbox ushered in the era of online gaming .
Now every major game touts " online capabilities " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the end of an era I guess.
The Xbox ushered in the era of online gaming.
Now every major game touts "online capabilities".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038510</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265360460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never had Fender call to tell me that, but the strip club has.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never had Fender call to tell me that , but the strip club has .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never had Fender call to tell me that, but the strip club has.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31067374</id>
	<title>Re:Thisis a GREAT thing..</title>
	<author>bobbomo</author>
	<datestamp>1265634900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>not a full Xbox LIVE server, but works for most games</p><p>www.xbconnect.com/</p><p><a href="http://www.techlore.com/article/14302/XBConnect--A-Free-Alternative-to-XBox-Live/" title="techlore.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.techlore.com/article/14302/XBConnect--A-Free-Alternative-to-XBox-Live/</a> [techlore.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>not a full Xbox LIVE server , but works for most gameswww.xbconnect.com/http : //www.techlore.com/article/14302/XBConnect--A-Free-Alternative-to-XBox-Live/ [ techlore.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not a full Xbox LIVE server, but works for most gameswww.xbconnect.com/http://www.techlore.com/article/14302/XBConnect--A-Free-Alternative-to-XBox-Live/ [techlore.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038852</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>windex82</author>
	<datestamp>1265361960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damn, I was all set to prove you wrong.  It seemed like Doom came out well before 93....</p><p>From wiki:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>In gaming:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Doom (series), a series of first-person shooter video games developed by id Software<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; o Doom (video game), the first installment, released in 1993</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn , I was all set to prove you wrong .
It seemed like Doom came out well before 93....From wiki : In gaming :         * Doom ( series ) , a series of first-person shooter video games developed by id Software                     o Doom ( video game ) , the first installment , released in 1993</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn, I was all set to prove you wrong.
It seemed like Doom came out well before 93....From wiki:In gaming:
        * Doom (series), a series of first-person shooter video games developed by id Software
                    o Doom (video game), the first installment, released in 1993
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040366</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265368860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You misunderstood - he is attributing the success of the XBox 360 Live environment and features such as netflix, etc... to the foundation and learning experience they had with Xbox 180 Live.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You misunderstood - he is attributing the success of the XBox 360 Live environment and features such as netflix , etc... to the foundation and learning experience they had with Xbox 180 Live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You misunderstood - he is attributing the success of the XBox 360 Live environment and features such as netflix, etc... to the foundation and learning experience they had with Xbox 180 Live.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041958</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Pharmboy</author>
	<datestamp>1265379420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Steam on the PC works pretty much like that, and the servers are owned by individuals.  Once you buy, it autoinstalls.  No clicks needed.  There are still TFC servers out there, over 100, and that game came out over 10 years ago.  And with Steam, I can't lose the disk since there is none, and I can play at home, at work, on the laptop, etc. because I can install the software on all those systems, even tho I can only play on one at a time.  If you have to have control, it is the least problematic way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Steam on the PC works pretty much like that , and the servers are owned by individuals .
Once you buy , it autoinstalls .
No clicks needed .
There are still TFC servers out there , over 100 , and that game came out over 10 years ago .
And with Steam , I ca n't lose the disk since there is none , and I can play at home , at work , on the laptop , etc .
because I can install the software on all those systems , even tho I can only play on one at a time .
If you have to have control , it is the least problematic way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steam on the PC works pretty much like that, and the servers are owned by individuals.
Once you buy, it autoinstalls.
No clicks needed.
There are still TFC servers out there, over 100, and that game came out over 10 years ago.
And with Steam, I can't lose the disk since there is none, and I can play at home, at work, on the laptop, etc.
because I can install the software on all those systems, even tho I can only play on one at a time.
If you have to have control, it is the least problematic way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039064</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Xeno man</author>
	<datestamp>1265362980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why does potential enjoyment of a product have to start decreasing from the release date? I certainly wasn't in line the day XBoX was released for sale. I'm sure there are a lot of poorer kids that waited a few years for prices to come down and to save up enough to buy the system, and those that waited for something to appear in the used game bin before they bought that. I'm sure there are plenty of games people haven't had even a year and now they are loosing support? How is that fair?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does potential enjoyment of a product have to start decreasing from the release date ?
I certainly was n't in line the day XBoX was released for sale .
I 'm sure there are a lot of poorer kids that waited a few years for prices to come down and to save up enough to buy the system , and those that waited for something to appear in the used game bin before they bought that .
I 'm sure there are plenty of games people have n't had even a year and now they are loosing support ?
How is that fair ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does potential enjoyment of a product have to start decreasing from the release date?
I certainly wasn't in line the day XBoX was released for sale.
I'm sure there are a lot of poorer kids that waited a few years for prices to come down and to save up enough to buy the system, and those that waited for something to appear in the used game bin before they bought that.
I'm sure there are plenty of games people haven't had even a year and now they are loosing support?
How is that fair?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</id>
	<title>Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>rwade</author>
	<datestamp>1265361180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the <a href="http://gamerscoreblog.com/press/archive/2010/02/05/gh789.aspx" title="gamerscoreblog.com" rel="nofollow">announcement</a> [gamerscoreblog.com], XBox's live director takes hyperbole of one's achievements to a new level:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Seven years ago we laid out our vision for the connected console when we launched Xbox LIVE. We believed then that the power of the Internet to connect people would revolutionize living room entertainment. It started with amazing multiplayer games, and we&rsquo;ve since seen that bet pay off again and again with the launches of Xbox 360, Marketplace, Netflix and powerful social features like Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm. <b>None of this would have been possible without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.</b></p> </div><p>Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live? Really?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the announcement [ gamerscoreblog.com ] , XBox 's live director takes hyperbole of one 's achievements to a new level : Seven years ago we laid out our vision for the connected console when we launched Xbox LIVE .
We believed then that the power of the Internet to connect people would revolutionize living room entertainment .
It started with amazing multiplayer games , and we    ve since seen that bet pay off again and again with the launches of Xbox 360 , Marketplace , Netflix and powerful social features like Facebook , Twitter and Last.fm .
None of this would have been possible without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network .
Netflix , Facebook , and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live ?
Really ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the announcement [gamerscoreblog.com], XBox's live director takes hyperbole of one's achievements to a new level:Seven years ago we laid out our vision for the connected console when we launched Xbox LIVE.
We believed then that the power of the Internet to connect people would revolutionize living room entertainment.
It started with amazing multiplayer games, and we’ve since seen that bet pay off again and again with the launches of Xbox 360, Marketplace, Netflix and powerful social features like Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm.
None of this would have been possible without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.
Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live?
Really?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039478</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265364780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You miss the point entirely. The issue is not support, nor how long the xbox exists.<br>It is about vendor lock-in, DRM and control.</p><p>This is in no way different than DRM'ed music not working anymore because someone pulls the plug on the servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You miss the point entirely .
The issue is not support , nor how long the xbox exists.It is about vendor lock-in , DRM and control.This is in no way different than DRM'ed music not working anymore because someone pulls the plug on the servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You miss the point entirely.
The issue is not support, nor how long the xbox exists.It is about vendor lock-in, DRM and control.This is in no way different than DRM'ed music not working anymore because someone pulls the plug on the servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041116</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>dunezone</author>
	<datestamp>1265373240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."</p><p>You wouldn't have this problem on PC, anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own.</p></div><p>
You would still have problems with PC. DOS games can be played on DOSbox, but working DOSbox with network support is nightmare. And emulation is never 100\% so you can always run into problems. Privateer was nearly impossible to run on a modern system until emulation came around.
<br>
<br>
Running 3D Accelerated games is hit or miss since modern drivers tend to break backward compatibility. So many of those early classics will run with graphic glitches or not at all. My Nvidia driver from six months ago broke my Jedi Knight: Dark Forces and that no longer runs.
<br>
<br>
Some games were made to use M-Player and HEAT.NET and now would require a third-party plugin to work. This requires someone with knowledge and the time to fix. Command and Conquer Gold requires third-party hacked files to run properly on a modern OS. Of course than Westwood Online is no longer available so you need to find an alternative.
<br>
<br>
If you're real lucky the company released the source code to the game like ID Software and its been rewritten or ported but that's very rare.
<br>
<br>
Emulation is an option but that opens a whole can of worms, especially with 3D Acceleration emulation.
<br>
<br>
PC is better but it has a lot of gotchas. The reason its better is because its easier to fix a PC game than a closed-console. The funny thing is, there are ways to get multiplayer to work for Halo and Halo 2 on the xbox without going through LIVE.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever... " You would n't have this problem on PC , anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own .
You would still have problems with PC .
DOS games can be played on DOSbox , but working DOSbox with network support is nightmare .
And emulation is never 100 \ % so you can always run into problems .
Privateer was nearly impossible to run on a modern system until emulation came around .
Running 3D Accelerated games is hit or miss since modern drivers tend to break backward compatibility .
So many of those early classics will run with graphic glitches or not at all .
My Nvidia driver from six months ago broke my Jedi Knight : Dark Forces and that no longer runs .
Some games were made to use M-Player and HEAT.NET and now would require a third-party plugin to work .
This requires someone with knowledge and the time to fix .
Command and Conquer Gold requires third-party hacked files to run properly on a modern OS .
Of course than Westwood Online is no longer available so you need to find an alternative .
If you 're real lucky the company released the source code to the game like ID Software and its been rewritten or ported but that 's very rare .
Emulation is an option but that opens a whole can of worms , especially with 3D Acceleration emulation .
PC is better but it has a lot of gotchas .
The reason its better is because its easier to fix a PC game than a closed-console .
The funny thing is , there are ways to get multiplayer to work for Halo and Halo 2 on the xbox without going through LIVE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."You wouldn't have this problem on PC, anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own.
You would still have problems with PC.
DOS games can be played on DOSbox, but working DOSbox with network support is nightmare.
And emulation is never 100\% so you can always run into problems.
Privateer was nearly impossible to run on a modern system until emulation came around.
Running 3D Accelerated games is hit or miss since modern drivers tend to break backward compatibility.
So many of those early classics will run with graphic glitches or not at all.
My Nvidia driver from six months ago broke my Jedi Knight: Dark Forces and that no longer runs.
Some games were made to use M-Player and HEAT.NET and now would require a third-party plugin to work.
This requires someone with knowledge and the time to fix.
Command and Conquer Gold requires third-party hacked files to run properly on a modern OS.
Of course than Westwood Online is no longer available so you need to find an alternative.
If you're real lucky the company released the source code to the game like ID Software and its been rewritten or ported but that's very rare.
Emulation is an option but that opens a whole can of worms, especially with 3D Acceleration emulation.
PC is better but it has a lot of gotchas.
The reason its better is because its easier to fix a PC game than a closed-console.
The funny thing is, there are ways to get multiplayer to work for Halo and Halo 2 on the xbox without going through LIVE.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038452</id>
	<title>Re:Is anyone surprised?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265403420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah.. prostitution may be the world's oldest profession, but that doesn't mean you didn't have to upgrade to the new brothel once in awhile.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah.. prostitution may be the world 's oldest profession , but that does n't mean you did n't have to upgrade to the new brothel once in awhile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.. prostitution may be the world's oldest profession, but that doesn't mean you didn't have to upgrade to the new brothel once in awhile.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31043996</id>
	<title>Re:To move forward what choice did they have?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265489400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I fail to see how they couldn't simply program around that...  I mean, all the data's in the cloud right?  Wasn't the the whole point of "Live!" such that they could update code online?</p><p>Couldn't they simply separate Xbox Live! and 360 Live! ?   I would imagine it's as easy as cloning a few servers and databases, and then pointing the master server to a different IP.  Sure, you'd have no communication between 1 and 360s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but then look what you're getting now?</p><p>There's a lot of different ways to get around this.  M$ picked NONE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how they could n't simply program around that... I mean , all the data 's in the cloud right ?
Was n't the the whole point of " Live !
" such that they could update code online ? Could n't they simply separate Xbox Live !
and 360 Live !
? I would imagine it 's as easy as cloning a few servers and databases , and then pointing the master server to a different IP .
Sure , you 'd have no communication between 1 and 360s ... but then look what you 're getting now ? There 's a lot of different ways to get around this .
M $ picked NONE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how they couldn't simply program around that...  I mean, all the data's in the cloud right?
Wasn't the the whole point of "Live!
" such that they could update code online?Couldn't they simply separate Xbox Live!
and 360 Live!
?   I would imagine it's as easy as cloning a few servers and databases, and then pointing the master server to a different IP.
Sure, you'd have no communication between 1 and 360s ... but then look what you're getting now?There's a lot of different ways to get around this.
M$ picked NONE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038826</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31044098</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>drkim</author>
	<datestamp>1265448720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's too bad they don't have a system like UT2004 and UT3 have - where users can run their own server off their system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's too bad they do n't have a system like UT2004 and UT3 have - where users can run their own server off their system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's too bad they don't have a system like UT2004 and UT3 have - where users can run their own server off their system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045578</id>
	<title>Finally, we can move forward</title>
	<author>FrozenFOXX</author>
	<datestamp>1265472720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look, I know it's popular to bash MS for this and all but from what we've seen from them in the past the old XBox Live service model was actually the last thing holding back the 360 Live service.  Ever wonder why you can only have 100 friends on your 360 XBL Friends list?  No clans?  No other "modern" features?  Halo 2 was the reason.<br> <br>

From what they said in the past SPECIFICALLY Halo 2 was holding it back because it wouldn't recognize a friends list longer than 100 people or additional features.  Yes, this is poor planning for the original infrastructure but the only way to fix it is to kill support for the XBox Live infrastructure.<br> <br>

I thought we were supposed to welcome trimming cruft (OpenGL anyone?).  Even if it hurts a little in the short term compare how many people were using the original XBox Live infrastructure to the number of people using the new XBox 360 Live infrastructure.<br> <br>

Personally I think they should've had a legacy server infrastructure set up but that would've meant that you'd have two separate friends lists, two separate sets of features, and again you're not really trimming cruft, just making it such that you have to duplicate a lot of your work when you want to upgrade it.  However much as it hurts to drop the original XBox Live I'm looking forward to much higher limits on my friends list, more expansive features of the Live service since the 360 (and its games) was designed with a constantly upgraded infrastructure in mind, and so forth.<br> <br>

Bash 'em all you like but that 100 player limit ALONE in your friends list was a major sticking point for many communities (hello all us Penny-Arcade and Ctrl-Alt-Del fans who want to play with the creators of the strip).  At least now we can get that shit out of the way.<br> <br> <br>


Disclaimer:  I have all Linux machines in my house, all major consoles, have played games since the Atari 2600 on right about everything from Windows 95 to OpenSolaris, NES to 360.  No gaming is around forever, even my beloved System Shock requires some interesting emulation to get it to work, I view this as no different other than the fact MS told you up front it wouldn't be around forever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I know it 's popular to bash MS for this and all but from what we 've seen from them in the past the old XBox Live service model was actually the last thing holding back the 360 Live service .
Ever wonder why you can only have 100 friends on your 360 XBL Friends list ?
No clans ?
No other " modern " features ?
Halo 2 was the reason .
From what they said in the past SPECIFICALLY Halo 2 was holding it back because it would n't recognize a friends list longer than 100 people or additional features .
Yes , this is poor planning for the original infrastructure but the only way to fix it is to kill support for the XBox Live infrastructure .
I thought we were supposed to welcome trimming cruft ( OpenGL anyone ? ) .
Even if it hurts a little in the short term compare how many people were using the original XBox Live infrastructure to the number of people using the new XBox 360 Live infrastructure .
Personally I think they should 've had a legacy server infrastructure set up but that would 've meant that you 'd have two separate friends lists , two separate sets of features , and again you 're not really trimming cruft , just making it such that you have to duplicate a lot of your work when you want to upgrade it .
However much as it hurts to drop the original XBox Live I 'm looking forward to much higher limits on my friends list , more expansive features of the Live service since the 360 ( and its games ) was designed with a constantly upgraded infrastructure in mind , and so forth .
Bash 'em all you like but that 100 player limit ALONE in your friends list was a major sticking point for many communities ( hello all us Penny-Arcade and Ctrl-Alt-Del fans who want to play with the creators of the strip ) .
At least now we can get that shit out of the way .
Disclaimer : I have all Linux machines in my house , all major consoles , have played games since the Atari 2600 on right about everything from Windows 95 to OpenSolaris , NES to 360 .
No gaming is around forever , even my beloved System Shock requires some interesting emulation to get it to work , I view this as no different other than the fact MS told you up front it would n't be around forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I know it's popular to bash MS for this and all but from what we've seen from them in the past the old XBox Live service model was actually the last thing holding back the 360 Live service.
Ever wonder why you can only have 100 friends on your 360 XBL Friends list?
No clans?
No other "modern" features?
Halo 2 was the reason.
From what they said in the past SPECIFICALLY Halo 2 was holding it back because it wouldn't recognize a friends list longer than 100 people or additional features.
Yes, this is poor planning for the original infrastructure but the only way to fix it is to kill support for the XBox Live infrastructure.
I thought we were supposed to welcome trimming cruft (OpenGL anyone?).
Even if it hurts a little in the short term compare how many people were using the original XBox Live infrastructure to the number of people using the new XBox 360 Live infrastructure.
Personally I think they should've had a legacy server infrastructure set up but that would've meant that you'd have two separate friends lists, two separate sets of features, and again you're not really trimming cruft, just making it such that you have to duplicate a lot of your work when you want to upgrade it.
However much as it hurts to drop the original XBox Live I'm looking forward to much higher limits on my friends list, more expansive features of the Live service since the 360 (and its games) was designed with a constantly upgraded infrastructure in mind, and so forth.
Bash 'em all you like but that 100 player limit ALONE in your friends list was a major sticking point for many communities (hello all us Penny-Arcade and Ctrl-Alt-Del fans who want to play with the creators of the strip).
At least now we can get that shit out of the way.
Disclaimer:  I have all Linux machines in my house, all major consoles, have played games since the Atari 2600 on right about everything from Windows 95 to OpenSolaris, NES to 360.
No gaming is around forever, even my beloved System Shock requires some interesting emulation to get it to work, I view this as no different other than the fact MS told you up front it wouldn't be around forever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038568</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1265360760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Devil's Advocate:</p><p>Let's assuming Microsoft's reason for doing this (friends list limited to 100 friends) is correct. Let's say that instead of cutting off Xbox games, they instead offered this ballot to all Xbox Live members:</p><p>Choose one:<br>1) Raise friend list limit to 1,000 friends<br>2) Continue playing original Xbox games online</p><p>Which do you think the game-playing audience would have chosen?</p><p>This seems to me to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of decision. There's nothing you can do to make every happy all the time. However, I'd guess that most Xbox gamers would choose option 1.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Devil 's Advocate : Let 's assuming Microsoft 's reason for doing this ( friends list limited to 100 friends ) is correct .
Let 's say that instead of cutting off Xbox games , they instead offered this ballot to all Xbox Live members : Choose one : 1 ) Raise friend list limit to 1,000 friends2 ) Continue playing original Xbox games onlineWhich do you think the game-playing audience would have chosen ? This seems to me to be a " damned if you do , damned if you do n't " kind of decision .
There 's nothing you can do to make every happy all the time .
However , I 'd guess that most Xbox gamers would choose option 1 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Devil's Advocate:Let's assuming Microsoft's reason for doing this (friends list limited to 100 friends) is correct.
Let's say that instead of cutting off Xbox games, they instead offered this ballot to all Xbox Live members:Choose one:1) Raise friend list limit to 1,000 friends2) Continue playing original Xbox games onlineWhich do you think the game-playing audience would have chosen?This seems to me to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of decision.
There's nothing you can do to make every happy all the time.
However, I'd guess that most Xbox gamers would choose option 1.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040122</id>
	<title>...Off to the pawn shop</title>
	<author>kent\_eh</author>
	<datestamp>1265367720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It sounds like there will be a lot of X-Boxes coming onto the used market soon, for cheap.<br>
Now, <a href="http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Getting\_Started" title="xbox-linux.org">what to do</a> [xbox-linux.org] <a href="http://www.xboxscene.com/xbox-tutorials.php?p=374\%7C375\%7C#375" title="xboxscene.com">with them</a> [xboxscene.com]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like there will be a lot of X-Boxes coming onto the used market soon , for cheap .
Now , what to do [ xbox-linux.org ] with them [ xboxscene.com ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like there will be a lot of X-Boxes coming onto the used market soon, for cheap.
Now, what to do [xbox-linux.org] with them [xboxscene.com] ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042326</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265382060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now."</p><p>It's much easier today than back in the day. Editing dosbox.conf to make dosbox emulate the game's preferred hardware is much easier than physically moving ISA cards to different slots, toggling jumpers, restarting DOS with different configurations in order to make the game run.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing , good luck getting them to run now .
" It 's much easier today than back in the day .
Editing dosbox.conf to make dosbox emulate the game 's preferred hardware is much easier than physically moving ISA cards to different slots , toggling jumpers , restarting DOS with different configurations in order to make the game run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now.
"It's much easier today than back in the day.
Editing dosbox.conf to make dosbox emulate the game's preferred hardware is much easier than physically moving ISA cards to different slots, toggling jumpers, restarting DOS with different configurations in order to make the game run.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31056736</id>
	<title>Some Alternatives</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know it's not the same but there are some alternatives to be aware of: <a href="http://www.xbconnect.com/" title="xbconnect.com" rel="nofollow">XBConnect</a> [xbconnect.com] and <a href="http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/" title="teamxlink.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Xlink Kai</a> [teamxlink.co.uk].<br>That is at least unless they decide to stop support for the original xbox too.</p><p>I guess this is why I prefer playing multiplayer games on PC rather than my consoles. This is also why I prefer to buy media for a game (e.g CD or DVD) rather than a download (e.g steam). Even though I also use steam.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know it 's not the same but there are some alternatives to be aware of : XBConnect [ xbconnect.com ] and Xlink Kai [ teamxlink.co.uk ] .That is at least unless they decide to stop support for the original xbox too.I guess this is why I prefer playing multiplayer games on PC rather than my consoles .
This is also why I prefer to buy media for a game ( e.g CD or DVD ) rather than a download ( e.g steam ) .
Even though I also use steam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know it's not the same but there are some alternatives to be aware of: XBConnect [xbconnect.com] and Xlink Kai [teamxlink.co.uk].That is at least unless they decide to stop support for the original xbox too.I guess this is why I prefer playing multiplayer games on PC rather than my consoles.
This is also why I prefer to buy media for a game (e.g CD or DVD) rather than a download (e.g steam).
Even though I also use steam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038488</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265360400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it bothers you, your best option is to get the most out of your games in the first EIGHT years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it bothers you , your best option is to get the most out of your games in the first EIGHT years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it bothers you, your best option is to get the most out of your games in the first EIGHT years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</id>
	<title>Life expectancy</title>
	<author>chilvence</author>
	<datestamp>1265403000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the article, Halo 2 has a 5 year run on the internet. Wow, thats a LONG time!</p><p>Doom is still being played online.. that's about 17 years and still going?</p><p>So from this we can see, if you happen to be attached to a particular game, then in future you get to be dispersed by the company for loitering.</p><p>How many people here play chess?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the article , Halo 2 has a 5 year run on the internet .
Wow , thats a LONG time ! Doom is still being played online.. that 's about 17 years and still going ? So from this we can see , if you happen to be attached to a particular game , then in future you get to be dispersed by the company for loitering.How many people here play chess ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the article, Halo 2 has a 5 year run on the internet.
Wow, thats a LONG time!Doom is still being played online.. that's about 17 years and still going?So from this we can see, if you happen to be attached to a particular game, then in future you get to be dispersed by the company for loitering.How many people here play chess?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038432</id>
	<title>Hahahaha</title>
	<author>FunkyELF</author>
	<datestamp>1265403300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shutting down for no good reason at all.  Its like flickr, or Facebook, or GMail just disappearing.</p><p>Don't trust the cloud.</p><p>That stuff should never happen.  I bet you can still find people playing Duke Nukem 3d on the internet.<br>I played some Battlefield 1942 a couple months ago.  Its nice to feel nostalgic.</p><p>Let some non-profit group take it over, or release it to the public so people can run their own servers.</p><p>What a bad design.  Those who make the games should be able to have their own servers and release Linux servers for anyone who wants to run one on their microwave.</p><p>Side note... I remember there were some things you could run on a modded xbox that would make people on the internet appear to be on your own local network so that you could play games online without xbox live.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Shutting down for no good reason at all .
Its like flickr , or Facebook , or GMail just disappearing.Do n't trust the cloud.That stuff should never happen .
I bet you can still find people playing Duke Nukem 3d on the internet.I played some Battlefield 1942 a couple months ago .
Its nice to feel nostalgic.Let some non-profit group take it over , or release it to the public so people can run their own servers.What a bad design .
Those who make the games should be able to have their own servers and release Linux servers for anyone who wants to run one on their microwave.Side note... I remember there were some things you could run on a modded xbox that would make people on the internet appear to be on your own local network so that you could play games online without xbox live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shutting down for no good reason at all.
Its like flickr, or Facebook, or GMail just disappearing.Don't trust the cloud.That stuff should never happen.
I bet you can still find people playing Duke Nukem 3d on the internet.I played some Battlefield 1942 a couple months ago.
Its nice to feel nostalgic.Let some non-profit group take it over, or release it to the public so people can run their own servers.What a bad design.
Those who make the games should be able to have their own servers and release Linux servers for anyone who wants to run one on their microwave.Side note... I remember there were some things you could run on a modded xbox that would make people on the internet appear to be on your own local network so that you could play games online without xbox live.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038340</id>
	<title>battle.net still lives</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265402940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can still play Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and Warcraft 2 battle.net edition on battle.net for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can still play Diablo 2 , Warcraft 3 , and Warcraft 2 battle.net edition on battle.net for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can still play Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and Warcraft 2 battle.net edition on battle.net for free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039160</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265363400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly.</p><p>When I buy a game I understand the risks.  I pay 60 bucks and hopefully I get at least 10-20 hours of enjoyable game time out of it.</p><p>That equates to 3-6 dollars per hour for the entertainment.</p><p>Compare that to the Movies.  10 bucks for a ticket to a 2-3 hour movie.</p><p>I have over 150 Hours played in MW2 on the 360, so far that equates to 40 cents an hour.</p><p>Add in the price of the 360, and that is around 3 bucks per hour.</p><p>Toss in all the extra hours I use the 360 for watching movies, playing other games etc, and it is probably back to the 40-60cent per hour range.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly.When I buy a game I understand the risks .
I pay 60 bucks and hopefully I get at least 10-20 hours of enjoyable game time out of it.That equates to 3-6 dollars per hour for the entertainment.Compare that to the Movies .
10 bucks for a ticket to a 2-3 hour movie.I have over 150 Hours played in MW2 on the 360 , so far that equates to 40 cents an hour.Add in the price of the 360 , and that is around 3 bucks per hour.Toss in all the extra hours I use the 360 for watching movies , playing other games etc , and it is probably back to the 40-60cent per hour range .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.When I buy a game I understand the risks.
I pay 60 bucks and hopefully I get at least 10-20 hours of enjoyable game time out of it.That equates to 3-6 dollars per hour for the entertainment.Compare that to the Movies.
10 bucks for a ticket to a 2-3 hour movie.I have over 150 Hours played in MW2 on the 360, so far that equates to 40 cents an hour.Add in the price of the 360, and that is around 3 bucks per hour.Toss in all the extra hours I use the 360 for watching movies, playing other games etc, and it is probably back to the 40-60cent per hour range.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040232</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265368200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, what is being said is that the 360, Marketplace, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm on the XBox would never have happend without LIVE paving the way.  The success of the various services over LIVE would not have been possible without the LIVE platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , what is being said is that the 360 , Marketplace , Netflix , Facebook , Twitter , and Last.fm on the XBox would never have happend without LIVE paving the way .
The success of the various services over LIVE would not have been possible without the LIVE platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, what is being said is that the 360, Marketplace, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm on the XBox would never have happend without LIVE paving the way.
The success of the various services over LIVE would not have been possible without the LIVE platform.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038848</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265361960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not any more, see MW2 for example. Also, watch what happens when Steam shuts down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not any more , see MW2 for example .
Also , watch what happens when Steam shuts down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not any more, see MW2 for example.
Also, watch what happens when Steam shuts down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039102</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1265363100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...</p></div><p>Well, if the games had been designed differently, it wouldn't be necessary for them to be maintained forever.</p><p>What ever happened to a good ol' dedicated server running on your LAN?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...Well , if the games had been designed differently , it would n't be necessary for them to be maintained forever.What ever happened to a good ol ' dedicated server running on your LAN ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...Well, if the games had been designed differently, it wouldn't be necessary for them to be maintained forever.What ever happened to a good ol' dedicated server running on your LAN?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040512</id>
	<title>Re:To move forward what choice did they have?</title>
	<author>patlabor</author>
	<datestamp>1265369640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure you can. Microsoft could detect the client and serve compatible content (like only the top 100 friend tags) to the Xbox, and serve full content to the 360. Seems like it would be a fairly simple programming change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure you can .
Microsoft could detect the client and serve compatible content ( like only the top 100 friend tags ) to the Xbox , and serve full content to the 360 .
Seems like it would be a fairly simple programming change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure you can.
Microsoft could detect the client and serve compatible content (like only the top 100 friend tags) to the Xbox, and serve full content to the 360.
Seems like it would be a fairly simple programming change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038826</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038664</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>ravyne</author>
	<datestamp>1265361060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh please. Its not like PC games are never shut down -- granted some of them have dedicated servers that individuals run for as long as they like, but how many MMOs have been shut down? You know, those MMOs that cost 50 bucks to start + 10-15 bucks (<i>just for that one game</i>) every month up until it was cancelled? Not all PC games are impervious to this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
That said, I believe that any original XBox game that works on the 360 hardware ought to be supported for as long as the 360 games are. But, it's also not some huge loss either -- its not as if gobs of people are still playing even Halo 2, which was by far the most popular online game for the original XBox -- when my 360 red-ringed, I tried to hop on some halo 2 to get my fix. The number of online players was in the very-low 4 digits, maybe 1200 or so. It took me 20 minutes to get into a 6-man game, and everyone in it, aside from myself, were either glitching or using hacks. It really is sad, because there were some really great multiplayer maps in Halo 2 that weren't made over for 3.<br>
<br>
Also, from what I recall, one of the reasons that your friends list is limited to 100 or so is because all the original xbox games hard-coded this number -- so they either limit the query to 100 results, cutting off your would-be friends, or they try to read all that data and likely crash. On the 360, I don't believe devs were allowed to assume this number and had to query for it. Its very likely that cutting off the old games will allow the live platform to move beyond some of the early mistakes like this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh please .
Its not like PC games are never shut down -- granted some of them have dedicated servers that individuals run for as long as they like , but how many MMOs have been shut down ?
You know , those MMOs that cost 50 bucks to start + 10-15 bucks ( just for that one game ) every month up until it was cancelled ?
Not all PC games are impervious to this sort of thing .
That said , I believe that any original XBox game that works on the 360 hardware ought to be supported for as long as the 360 games are .
But , it 's also not some huge loss either -- its not as if gobs of people are still playing even Halo 2 , which was by far the most popular online game for the original XBox -- when my 360 red-ringed , I tried to hop on some halo 2 to get my fix .
The number of online players was in the very-low 4 digits , maybe 1200 or so .
It took me 20 minutes to get into a 6-man game , and everyone in it , aside from myself , were either glitching or using hacks .
It really is sad , because there were some really great multiplayer maps in Halo 2 that were n't made over for 3 .
Also , from what I recall , one of the reasons that your friends list is limited to 100 or so is because all the original xbox games hard-coded this number -- so they either limit the query to 100 results , cutting off your would-be friends , or they try to read all that data and likely crash .
On the 360 , I do n't believe devs were allowed to assume this number and had to query for it .
Its very likely that cutting off the old games will allow the live platform to move beyond some of the early mistakes like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh please.
Its not like PC games are never shut down -- granted some of them have dedicated servers that individuals run for as long as they like, but how many MMOs have been shut down?
You know, those MMOs that cost 50 bucks to start + 10-15 bucks (just for that one game) every month up until it was cancelled?
Not all PC games are impervious to this sort of thing.
That said, I believe that any original XBox game that works on the 360 hardware ought to be supported for as long as the 360 games are.
But, it's also not some huge loss either -- its not as if gobs of people are still playing even Halo 2, which was by far the most popular online game for the original XBox -- when my 360 red-ringed, I tried to hop on some halo 2 to get my fix.
The number of online players was in the very-low 4 digits, maybe 1200 or so.
It took me 20 minutes to get into a 6-man game, and everyone in it, aside from myself, were either glitching or using hacks.
It really is sad, because there were some really great multiplayer maps in Halo 2 that weren't made over for 3.
Also, from what I recall, one of the reasons that your friends list is limited to 100 or so is because all the original xbox games hard-coded this number -- so they either limit the query to 100 results, cutting off your would-be friends, or they try to read all that data and likely crash.
On the 360, I don't believe devs were allowed to assume this number and had to query for it.
Its very likely that cutting off the old games will allow the live platform to move beyond some of the early mistakes like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038970</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265362500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open</p></div><p>If only that were the case with -ALL- PC Games. Sadly, it is not. If Blizzard were to drop off the grid, not only would WoW become unplayable (obviously) but also their other titles, such as Starcraft and Diablo 2. And it happens to everyone. Sierra got bought out and now half their game hosting servers are shut down. A handful of games from the 90's no longer have any server support. Some Ubisoft titles come to mind as well.</p><p>It's easy to bash a console - especially one operated by Microsoft, but you aren't really looking at the big picture. The thing was launched in 2002, so thats 7 to 8 years of solid support. Thats automatic matchmaking, ranking systems, communications with friends, shopping, etc etc. The only system to have even come close to that is Steam, which in of itself is no more open than XboxLive. If Valve decided to shutdown their steam servers, you are just as tied into their locked in model as Microsofts.</p><p>So yes - if you want to escape from this model, you need to find open standards and open platforms, (though I don't think Linux and opengl particularily effect a games lifelength). Its about finding games that aren't dependant on the publisher's/developer's servers, which is tough now-a-days. And you probably don't know if there is the option to host a server dedicated or not until you buy and play the game, so you're pretty much screwed either way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The answer is the PC games model we already had , where the platform is openIf only that were the case with -ALL- PC Games .
Sadly , it is not .
If Blizzard were to drop off the grid , not only would WoW become unplayable ( obviously ) but also their other titles , such as Starcraft and Diablo 2 .
And it happens to everyone .
Sierra got bought out and now half their game hosting servers are shut down .
A handful of games from the 90 's no longer have any server support .
Some Ubisoft titles come to mind as well.It 's easy to bash a console - especially one operated by Microsoft , but you are n't really looking at the big picture .
The thing was launched in 2002 , so thats 7 to 8 years of solid support .
Thats automatic matchmaking , ranking systems , communications with friends , shopping , etc etc .
The only system to have even come close to that is Steam , which in of itself is no more open than XboxLive .
If Valve decided to shutdown their steam servers , you are just as tied into their locked in model as Microsofts.So yes - if you want to escape from this model , you need to find open standards and open platforms , ( though I do n't think Linux and opengl particularily effect a games lifelength ) .
Its about finding games that are n't dependant on the publisher 's/developer 's servers , which is tough now-a-days .
And you probably do n't know if there is the option to host a server dedicated or not until you buy and play the game , so you 're pretty much screwed either way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is openIf only that were the case with -ALL- PC Games.
Sadly, it is not.
If Blizzard were to drop off the grid, not only would WoW become unplayable (obviously) but also their other titles, such as Starcraft and Diablo 2.
And it happens to everyone.
Sierra got bought out and now half their game hosting servers are shut down.
A handful of games from the 90's no longer have any server support.
Some Ubisoft titles come to mind as well.It's easy to bash a console - especially one operated by Microsoft, but you aren't really looking at the big picture.
The thing was launched in 2002, so thats 7 to 8 years of solid support.
Thats automatic matchmaking, ranking systems, communications with friends, shopping, etc etc.
The only system to have even come close to that is Steam, which in of itself is no more open than XboxLive.
If Valve decided to shutdown their steam servers, you are just as tied into their locked in model as Microsofts.So yes - if you want to escape from this model, you need to find open standards and open platforms, (though I don't think Linux and opengl particularily effect a games lifelength).
Its about finding games that aren't dependant on the publisher's/developer's servers, which is tough now-a-days.
And you probably don't know if there is the option to host a server dedicated or not until you buy and play the game, so you're pretty much screwed either way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040028</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265367300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not when the server list or auth servers go down</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.freelancerserver.de/" title="freelancerserver.de" rel="nofollow">Yes, even when "the server list or auth servers go down"</a> [freelancerserver.de]</p><p>Jesus, the console fanboys are dense.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not when the server list or auth servers go down Yes , even when " the server list or auth servers go down " [ freelancerserver.de ] Jesus , the console fanboys are dense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not when the server list or auth servers go down Yes, even when "the server list or auth servers go down" [freelancerserver.de]Jesus, the console fanboys are dense.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041460</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>theArtificial</author>
	<datestamp>1265375700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps you should look into <a href="http://www.xbconnect.com/" title="xbconnect.com">XBConnect</a> [xbconnect.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps you should look into XBConnect [ xbconnect.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps you should look into XBConnect [xbconnect.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>jonesy16</author>
	<datestamp>1265367600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now.  Got a dos driver for your embedded RealTek audio card?  How about a dos driver for your wireless mouse?  Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me.  That's what technology does to things, we constantly move forward and at some point it doesn't make sense to carry along support for old things.  I have a library of Beta tapes, where can i buy a new Beta player?  Hell, I can't remember the last time i saw a new movie on VHS at the store.  OS X 10.6 doesn't run on PPC macs, Windows 7 doesn't support some XP programs, etc.  It's convenient to blame the manufacturer and claim they're purposefully screwing the consumers but at some point you have to let go.  What about all of those Windows XP users that want to play the latest DirectX 11 games<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... too bad.</p><p>My point is, as a consumer you have to ready yourself for the 6 year life that most software carries nowadays.  And if that frustrates you then you best find another source of entertainment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing , good luck getting them to run now .
Got a dos driver for your embedded RealTek audio card ?
How about a dos driver for your wireless mouse ?
Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me .
That 's what technology does to things , we constantly move forward and at some point it does n't make sense to carry along support for old things .
I have a library of Beta tapes , where can i buy a new Beta player ?
Hell , I ca n't remember the last time i saw a new movie on VHS at the store .
OS X 10.6 does n't run on PPC macs , Windows 7 does n't support some XP programs , etc .
It 's convenient to blame the manufacturer and claim they 're purposefully screwing the consumers but at some point you have to let go .
What about all of those Windows XP users that want to play the latest DirectX 11 games ... too bad.My point is , as a consumer you have to ready yourself for the 6 year life that most software carries nowadays .
And if that frustrates you then you best find another source of entertainment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now.
Got a dos driver for your embedded RealTek audio card?
How about a dos driver for your wireless mouse?
Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me.
That's what technology does to things, we constantly move forward and at some point it doesn't make sense to carry along support for old things.
I have a library of Beta tapes, where can i buy a new Beta player?
Hell, I can't remember the last time i saw a new movie on VHS at the store.
OS X 10.6 doesn't run on PPC macs, Windows 7 doesn't support some XP programs, etc.
It's convenient to blame the manufacturer and claim they're purposefully screwing the consumers but at some point you have to let go.
What about all of those Windows XP users that want to play the latest DirectX 11 games ... too bad.My point is, as a consumer you have to ready yourself for the 6 year life that most software carries nowadays.
And if that frustrates you then you best find another source of entertainment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040104</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Mista2</author>
	<datestamp>1265367660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not a surprise coming form the company that also brough you failr-play - then stopped that support so all the pruchased content was instantly worthless. Thsi is the main reason I have nto even bothered wasting my Money on XB-Live - in a few years it will be gone, and so will my money. But then as MS cant seem to make XB360 console that last more than a few years, maybe this isnt really a problem afterall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a surprise coming form the company that also brough you failr-play - then stopped that support so all the pruchased content was instantly worthless .
Thsi is the main reason I have nto even bothered wasting my Money on XB-Live - in a few years it will be gone , and so will my money .
But then as MS cant seem to make XB360 console that last more than a few years , maybe this isnt really a problem afterall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not a surprise coming form the company that also brough you failr-play - then stopped that support so all the pruchased content was instantly worthless.
Thsi is the main reason I have nto even bothered wasting my Money on XB-Live - in a few years it will be gone, and so will my money.
But then as MS cant seem to make XB360 console that last more than a few years, maybe this isnt really a problem afterall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041438</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>theArtificial</author>
	<datestamp>1265375520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With the success of Modern Warfare 2 and the model it has put foward the solution you're providing is not absolute.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With the success of Modern Warfare 2 and the model it has put foward the solution you 're providing is not absolute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the success of Modern Warfare 2 and the model it has put foward the solution you're providing is not absolute.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039302</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Darinbob</author>
	<datestamp>1265364000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What is this "Live" stuff anyway?  What benefit does it give the user?  Similarly for Windows Live which just seems a waste of space to have it installed.  Do players really care what someone else's achievements are?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is this " Live " stuff anyway ?
What benefit does it give the user ?
Similarly for Windows Live which just seems a waste of space to have it installed .
Do players really care what someone else 's achievements are ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is this "Live" stuff anyway?
What benefit does it give the user?
Similarly for Windows Live which just seems a waste of space to have it installed.
Do players really care what someone else's achievements are?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038396</id>
	<title>Larger friends lists incoming...</title>
	<author>zorkwiz</author>
	<datestamp>1265403180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's about time.   It's been known for quite some time now that the reason Xbox live friend lists are capped at 100 is due to legacy code from the Xbox 1 live days.  This should free us to have more friends at the least.    Now we'll just have to go make some..</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's about time .
It 's been known for quite some time now that the reason Xbox live friend lists are capped at 100 is due to legacy code from the Xbox 1 live days .
This should free us to have more friends at the least .
Now we 'll just have to go make some. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's about time.
It's been known for quite some time now that the reason Xbox live friend lists are capped at 100 is due to legacy code from the Xbox 1 live days.
This should free us to have more friends at the least.
Now we'll just have to go make some..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041070</id>
	<title>XLink Kai</title>
	<author>doronbc</author>
	<datestamp>1265372940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess it's too bad for them I've used XLink Kai for the last 4 years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess it 's too bad for them I 've used XLink Kai for the last 4 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess it's too bad for them I've used XLink Kai for the last 4 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038774</id>
	<title>What did you expect?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265361480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>For them to support the original console for another decade?  The console was released in '01!</htmltext>
<tokenext>For them to support the original console for another decade ?
The console was released in '01 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For them to support the original console for another decade?
The console was released in '01!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039770</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265366160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're clearly referring to the Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter features on Xbox 360. But whatever, any excuse to bash, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're clearly referring to the Netflix , Facebook , and Twitter features on Xbox 360 .
But whatever , any excuse to bash , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're clearly referring to the Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter features on Xbox 360.
But whatever, any excuse to bash, right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041516</id>
	<title>In every discussion where Steam is mentioned...</title>
	<author>YojimboJango</author>
	<datestamp>1265376120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In every discussion where Steam is mentioned there's always that one guy that gets modded up really high talking about how you're just renting your games from Steam.  Then this person goes on a tirade about how you shouldn't use steam and should just buy console games or PC games on discs, because those magically work forever and the disc never gets scratched and this crap can never happen.  Also if Valve goes out of business then we have the legal right to open up their DRM (like they've publicly stated).  So not only do we get to keep playing single player like we already can offline, but I'm betting that all the games that aren't Modern Warfare 2 would just keep right on chugging along.</p><p>I'd just like to say that I'm bookmarking this article to post in reply to that guy.</p><p>Then again Steam has been around since Sept 2003; the xbox has been around since November 2001.  I guess that guy has till December 2011 for Valve to die a sudden and horrible death.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In every discussion where Steam is mentioned there 's always that one guy that gets modded up really high talking about how you 're just renting your games from Steam .
Then this person goes on a tirade about how you should n't use steam and should just buy console games or PC games on discs , because those magically work forever and the disc never gets scratched and this crap can never happen .
Also if Valve goes out of business then we have the legal right to open up their DRM ( like they 've publicly stated ) .
So not only do we get to keep playing single player like we already can offline , but I 'm betting that all the games that are n't Modern Warfare 2 would just keep right on chugging along.I 'd just like to say that I 'm bookmarking this article to post in reply to that guy.Then again Steam has been around since Sept 2003 ; the xbox has been around since November 2001 .
I guess that guy has till December 2011 for Valve to die a sudden and horrible death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In every discussion where Steam is mentioned there's always that one guy that gets modded up really high talking about how you're just renting your games from Steam.
Then this person goes on a tirade about how you shouldn't use steam and should just buy console games or PC games on discs, because those magically work forever and the disc never gets scratched and this crap can never happen.
Also if Valve goes out of business then we have the legal right to open up their DRM (like they've publicly stated).
So not only do we get to keep playing single player like we already can offline, but I'm betting that all the games that aren't Modern Warfare 2 would just keep right on chugging along.I'd just like to say that I'm bookmarking this article to post in reply to that guy.Then again Steam has been around since Sept 2003; the xbox has been around since November 2001.
I guess that guy has till December 2011 for Valve to die a sudden and horrible death.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039158</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>RavenofNi</author>
	<datestamp>1265363340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is modded interesting? Wow.
<br> <br>
The statement when properly read is saying the the Xbox 360, and several of its components such as the Live Marketplace, Netflix streaming content through the Xbox Dashboard, Facebook/Twitter Dashboard apps, and Live.FM streaming audio wouldn't have come to pass.
<br> <br>
All of which is perfectly true, had the XBox 1 not done well, it's like that the 360 would have been canned in R&amp;D, and thus these elements of the 360 experience wouldn't have come into existence either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is modded interesting ?
Wow . The statement when properly read is saying the the Xbox 360 , and several of its components such as the Live Marketplace , Netflix streaming content through the Xbox Dashboard , Facebook/Twitter Dashboard apps , and Live.FM streaming audio would n't have come to pass .
All of which is perfectly true , had the XBox 1 not done well , it 's like that the 360 would have been canned in R&amp;D , and thus these elements of the 360 experience would n't have come into existence either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is modded interesting?
Wow.
 
The statement when properly read is saying the the Xbox 360, and several of its components such as the Live Marketplace, Netflix streaming content through the Xbox Dashboard, Facebook/Twitter Dashboard apps, and Live.FM streaming audio wouldn't have come to pass.
All of which is perfectly true, had the XBox 1 not done well, it's like that the 360 would have been canned in R&amp;D, and thus these elements of the 360 experience wouldn't have come into existence either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045146</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>fyrewulff</author>
	<datestamp>1265467320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers?

I'll give you a clue: it wouldn't.</p></div><p>Actually, I can think of quite a few PC games who's online modes stopped working. C&amp;C95, Tiberian Sun, Renegade, many others. Dedicated servers don't mean the game can stay up if the company pulls the plug on the master server. Seeing as how all these games are peer-to-peer, they're actually less vulnerable to shutdowns, since nobody has to buy and run separate server hardware. It doesn't matter who ultimately hosts a game.<br>
<br>
However, both dedicated and P2P gaming both have the same weakness - if the central master server goes down, you won't be able to find games anymore. There is no difference between me sitting in a lobby waiting for connections in P2P or me sitting in a dedicated server lobby waiting for connections. If people aren't given a way to get to that server, they're both essentially dead. Only games that anyone really cares about get their master servers reverse engineered, or if the developer releases the master server software<br>
<br>
I've also seen bad examples of a 'community' taking over a game after it goes down. If anyone remembers Subspace, a top-down shooter for PC? The original company (Sierra, if I remember correctly) shut it off. People found out how to get it to run on their own servers. A couple of years later, these people used their power and consolidated the master server software into their own little group, essentially taking the game -back away- from the community and pushed out the replacement software (called "Continuum"), in short they hijacked the game. After they then proceeded to do crap like delete six year old active accounts because "they wanted the screenname for a friend", I stopped playing.<br>
<br>
So in short, quit putting dedicated servers on a magical pedestal. They aren't the end all be all. For a game to continue after it's plug is pulled either requires a community with people in it good enough to reverse engineer the master servers, hope to hell the developer releases the master server, and then hope you don't have jerks go for a power play and 'take over' and turn out to be bigger assholes than the company could ever be. Dedicated servers are just a relic of the old days when it would have not been feasible (especially when graphics were CPU-bound) to run both the server daemon and the game off the same machine, so it was just easier to split them up. Now we have multi-core machines and seperate GPUs. There is no real reason for dedicated servers to exist anymore, because you can replicate all their functionality in a P2P game anyway.<br>
<br>
Ultimately though, I suspect the real reason behind the shutdown is that they're probably starting to lose money on supporting original Xboxes. When you call 1-800-4MYXBOX, you still get menu options for OXbox support. Training people to support it is going to cost money and time. If you only have 90 people playing from an OXbox, their subscriptions are not going to support your operations. It really is the last cord they have to cut to completely drop the OXbox. There's also the fact that you cannot actually sign up for new accounts through the original Xbox - you need to use a prepaid code to start your account, you just can't put in a credit card by itself.<br>
<br>
It should also be stated that this is not the end of Halo 2 online! There's still Halo 2 Vista, which runs on both Vista and 7. It has both peer-to-peer and dedicated servers (guess which one is the bigger method of playing (hint: peer to peer, due to the dedicated servers usually only running one gametype)). It runs on GFWL so it will work as long as MS wants it to. And if they kill GFWL live, even though H2V has dedicated servers, it'd still become unplayable.<br>
<br>
Developers should never be forced to support a game into eternity - in the real world, servers cost money for bandwidth and maintenance.<br>
<br>
Bonus content: All of the games affected by this can still be played over the internet with Xbox Connect through their LAN modes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers ?
I 'll give you a clue : it would n't.Actually , I can think of quite a few PC games who 's online modes stopped working .
C&amp;C95 , Tiberian Sun , Renegade , many others .
Dedicated servers do n't mean the game can stay up if the company pulls the plug on the master server .
Seeing as how all these games are peer-to-peer , they 're actually less vulnerable to shutdowns , since nobody has to buy and run separate server hardware .
It does n't matter who ultimately hosts a game .
However , both dedicated and P2P gaming both have the same weakness - if the central master server goes down , you wo n't be able to find games anymore .
There is no difference between me sitting in a lobby waiting for connections in P2P or me sitting in a dedicated server lobby waiting for connections .
If people are n't given a way to get to that server , they 're both essentially dead .
Only games that anyone really cares about get their master servers reverse engineered , or if the developer releases the master server software I 've also seen bad examples of a 'community ' taking over a game after it goes down .
If anyone remembers Subspace , a top-down shooter for PC ?
The original company ( Sierra , if I remember correctly ) shut it off .
People found out how to get it to run on their own servers .
A couple of years later , these people used their power and consolidated the master server software into their own little group , essentially taking the game -back away- from the community and pushed out the replacement software ( called " Continuum " ) , in short they hijacked the game .
After they then proceeded to do crap like delete six year old active accounts because " they wanted the screenname for a friend " , I stopped playing .
So in short , quit putting dedicated servers on a magical pedestal .
They are n't the end all be all .
For a game to continue after it 's plug is pulled either requires a community with people in it good enough to reverse engineer the master servers , hope to hell the developer releases the master server , and then hope you do n't have jerks go for a power play and 'take over ' and turn out to be bigger assholes than the company could ever be .
Dedicated servers are just a relic of the old days when it would have not been feasible ( especially when graphics were CPU-bound ) to run both the server daemon and the game off the same machine , so it was just easier to split them up .
Now we have multi-core machines and seperate GPUs .
There is no real reason for dedicated servers to exist anymore , because you can replicate all their functionality in a P2P game anyway .
Ultimately though , I suspect the real reason behind the shutdown is that they 're probably starting to lose money on supporting original Xboxes .
When you call 1-800-4MYXBOX , you still get menu options for OXbox support .
Training people to support it is going to cost money and time .
If you only have 90 people playing from an OXbox , their subscriptions are not going to support your operations .
It really is the last cord they have to cut to completely drop the OXbox .
There 's also the fact that you can not actually sign up for new accounts through the original Xbox - you need to use a prepaid code to start your account , you just ca n't put in a credit card by itself .
It should also be stated that this is not the end of Halo 2 online !
There 's still Halo 2 Vista , which runs on both Vista and 7 .
It has both peer-to-peer and dedicated servers ( guess which one is the bigger method of playing ( hint : peer to peer , due to the dedicated servers usually only running one gametype ) ) .
It runs on GFWL so it will work as long as MS wants it to .
And if they kill GFWL live , even though H2V has dedicated servers , it 'd still become unplayable .
Developers should never be forced to support a game into eternity - in the real world , servers cost money for bandwidth and maintenance .
Bonus content : All of the games affected by this can still be played over the internet with Xbox Connect through their LAN modes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers?
I'll give you a clue: it wouldn't.Actually, I can think of quite a few PC games who's online modes stopped working.
C&amp;C95, Tiberian Sun, Renegade, many others.
Dedicated servers don't mean the game can stay up if the company pulls the plug on the master server.
Seeing as how all these games are peer-to-peer, they're actually less vulnerable to shutdowns, since nobody has to buy and run separate server hardware.
It doesn't matter who ultimately hosts a game.
However, both dedicated and P2P gaming both have the same weakness - if the central master server goes down, you won't be able to find games anymore.
There is no difference between me sitting in a lobby waiting for connections in P2P or me sitting in a dedicated server lobby waiting for connections.
If people aren't given a way to get to that server, they're both essentially dead.
Only games that anyone really cares about get their master servers reverse engineered, or if the developer releases the master server software

I've also seen bad examples of a 'community' taking over a game after it goes down.
If anyone remembers Subspace, a top-down shooter for PC?
The original company (Sierra, if I remember correctly) shut it off.
People found out how to get it to run on their own servers.
A couple of years later, these people used their power and consolidated the master server software into their own little group, essentially taking the game -back away- from the community and pushed out the replacement software (called "Continuum"), in short they hijacked the game.
After they then proceeded to do crap like delete six year old active accounts because "they wanted the screenname for a friend", I stopped playing.
So in short, quit putting dedicated servers on a magical pedestal.
They aren't the end all be all.
For a game to continue after it's plug is pulled either requires a community with people in it good enough to reverse engineer the master servers, hope to hell the developer releases the master server, and then hope you don't have jerks go for a power play and 'take over' and turn out to be bigger assholes than the company could ever be.
Dedicated servers are just a relic of the old days when it would have not been feasible (especially when graphics were CPU-bound) to run both the server daemon and the game off the same machine, so it was just easier to split them up.
Now we have multi-core machines and seperate GPUs.
There is no real reason for dedicated servers to exist anymore, because you can replicate all their functionality in a P2P game anyway.
Ultimately though, I suspect the real reason behind the shutdown is that they're probably starting to lose money on supporting original Xboxes.
When you call 1-800-4MYXBOX, you still get menu options for OXbox support.
Training people to support it is going to cost money and time.
If you only have 90 people playing from an OXbox, their subscriptions are not going to support your operations.
It really is the last cord they have to cut to completely drop the OXbox.
There's also the fact that you cannot actually sign up for new accounts through the original Xbox - you need to use a prepaid code to start your account, you just can't put in a credit card by itself.
It should also be stated that this is not the end of Halo 2 online!
There's still Halo 2 Vista, which runs on both Vista and 7.
It has both peer-to-peer and dedicated servers (guess which one is the bigger method of playing (hint: peer to peer, due to the dedicated servers usually only running one gametype)).
It runs on GFWL so it will work as long as MS wants it to.
And if they kill GFWL live, even though H2V has dedicated servers, it'd still become unplayable.
Developers should never be forced to support a game into eternity - in the real world, servers cost money for bandwidth and maintenance.
Bonus content: All of the games affected by this can still be played over the internet with Xbox Connect through their LAN modes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039222</id>
	<title>Re:HA HA HA Serves you suckers right!</title>
	<author>MSG</author>
	<datestamp>1265363640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It was just last week that Sony announced that "hey guess what? Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free, well not anymore suckas!".</p></div><p>I must have missed that.  Sony is still advertising the Playstation Network as <a href="http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Features/PSN" title="playstation.com">"100\% Free"</a> [playstation.com].  Where did they announce the change last week?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was just last week that Sony announced that " hey guess what ?
Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free , well not anymore suckas !
" .I must have missed that .
Sony is still advertising the Playstation Network as " 100 \ % Free " [ playstation.com ] .
Where did they announce the change last week ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was just last week that Sony announced that "hey guess what?
Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free, well not anymore suckas!
".I must have missed that.
Sony is still advertising the Playstation Network as "100\% Free" [playstation.com].
Where did they announce the change last week?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040286</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>snowraver1</author>
	<datestamp>1265368440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Xbox LIVE! is the online part of the XBOX.  Speaking specifically for the xbox 360, it provides content of all sorts.  The first thing that you notice when you connect to XBox Live (referred to as XBL here on out) will be the advertisements.  Generally they are for new and upcoming games, peripherals, and new xbox features, but may also include advertisements for cellular carriers, food chains, or anything else.<br> <br>Game demos, downloadable content, game updates, console updates, movie streaming and downloads are all handled by XBL.  XBL tracks your game progress through achievements, but does not store save game data (at this time, hopefully one day...)  XBL has social features such as a friends list and a list of recently played players.  Voice chat is handled by XBL rather than through individual games, which allows for seamless cross game chat.  XBL's matchmaking has something called Trueskill or Truskill that will assess a gamer's skill and match that gamer with others of a similar skill level.  Leaderboards are also hosted by XBL and allow for competetion on offline games.<br> <br>On the back end, I'm sure that there are detailed statistics on their users including number of games played, amount of time playing, skill level, etc.

<br> <br> As for your other question, I frequently look at other players' achievments, especially my friends'.  For some reason, the sound that plays when you unlock an achievement is very addictive, and strangely satisfying.  Looking at other players gives you an idea of which achievments are actually attainable (some are way too hard to get).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Xbox LIVE !
is the online part of the XBOX .
Speaking specifically for the xbox 360 , it provides content of all sorts .
The first thing that you notice when you connect to XBox Live ( referred to as XBL here on out ) will be the advertisements .
Generally they are for new and upcoming games , peripherals , and new xbox features , but may also include advertisements for cellular carriers , food chains , or anything else .
Game demos , downloadable content , game updates , console updates , movie streaming and downloads are all handled by XBL .
XBL tracks your game progress through achievements , but does not store save game data ( at this time , hopefully one day... ) XBL has social features such as a friends list and a list of recently played players .
Voice chat is handled by XBL rather than through individual games , which allows for seamless cross game chat .
XBL 's matchmaking has something called Trueskill or Truskill that will assess a gamer 's skill and match that gamer with others of a similar skill level .
Leaderboards are also hosted by XBL and allow for competetion on offline games .
On the back end , I 'm sure that there are detailed statistics on their users including number of games played , amount of time playing , skill level , etc .
As for your other question , I frequently look at other players ' achievments , especially my friends' .
For some reason , the sound that plays when you unlock an achievement is very addictive , and strangely satisfying .
Looking at other players gives you an idea of which achievments are actually attainable ( some are way too hard to get ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xbox LIVE!
is the online part of the XBOX.
Speaking specifically for the xbox 360, it provides content of all sorts.
The first thing that you notice when you connect to XBox Live (referred to as XBL here on out) will be the advertisements.
Generally they are for new and upcoming games, peripherals, and new xbox features, but may also include advertisements for cellular carriers, food chains, or anything else.
Game demos, downloadable content, game updates, console updates, movie streaming and downloads are all handled by XBL.
XBL tracks your game progress through achievements, but does not store save game data (at this time, hopefully one day...)  XBL has social features such as a friends list and a list of recently played players.
Voice chat is handled by XBL rather than through individual games, which allows for seamless cross game chat.
XBL's matchmaking has something called Trueskill or Truskill that will assess a gamer's skill and match that gamer with others of a similar skill level.
Leaderboards are also hosted by XBL and allow for competetion on offline games.
On the back end, I'm sure that there are detailed statistics on their users including number of games played, amount of time playing, skill level, etc.
As for your other question, I frequently look at other players' achievments, especially my friends'.
For some reason, the sound that plays when you unlock an achievement is very addictive, and strangely satisfying.
Looking at other players gives you an idea of which achievments are actually attainable (some are way too hard to get).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039476</id>
	<title>Re:Better PR</title>
	<author>rwade</author>
	<datestamp>1265364780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How about: We can't afford infinite amounts of computer power.</p></div><p>Well, that would not be true. Microsoft can afford to pay for the original Xbox live to continue working, they're just choosing not to prod people to buy Xbox 360s.</p><p>After all, I find it hard to believe that the cost of keeping the services for the original Xbox live games is a material item in the Xbox division's balance sheet. Do you? Do you really?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about : We ca n't afford infinite amounts of computer power.Well , that would not be true .
Microsoft can afford to pay for the original Xbox live to continue working , they 're just choosing not to prod people to buy Xbox 360s.After all , I find it hard to believe that the cost of keeping the services for the original Xbox live games is a material item in the Xbox division 's balance sheet .
Do you ?
Do you really ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about: We can't afford infinite amounts of computer power.Well, that would not be true.
Microsoft can afford to pay for the original Xbox live to continue working, they're just choosing not to prod people to buy Xbox 360s.After all, I find it hard to believe that the cost of keeping the services for the original Xbox live games is a material item in the Xbox division's balance sheet.
Do you?
Do you really?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039074</id>
	<title>Limitations of the old live service</title>
	<author>jpmorgan</author>
	<datestamp>1265362980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My understanding is there are certain limitations to the old Live service, specifically the number of friends. By deprecating the old service they can remove those limitations and let people have more than 100 people on their live friends lists.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My understanding is there are certain limitations to the old Live service , specifically the number of friends .
By deprecating the old service they can remove those limitations and let people have more than 100 people on their live friends lists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My understanding is there are certain limitations to the old Live service, specifically the number of friends.
By deprecating the old service they can remove those limitations and let people have more than 100 people on their live friends lists.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041048</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1265372820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having a network connection is new territory for consoles.  Traditionally multiplayer meant you would gather a few mates and play together at your house.  That really still is the same in this sense...you can still go back and play the games you enjoyed.  The multiplayer component will be missing, and if that is what you wanted, then it really sucks. <br> <br>I wouldn't be surprised if the community of gamers don't figure out a way around this and make their own private servers.  I would hope MS would be smart enough not to shut this down.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having a network connection is new territory for consoles .
Traditionally multiplayer meant you would gather a few mates and play together at your house .
That really still is the same in this sense...you can still go back and play the games you enjoyed .
The multiplayer component will be missing , and if that is what you wanted , then it really sucks .
I would n't be surprised if the community of gamers do n't figure out a way around this and make their own private servers .
I would hope MS would be smart enough not to shut this down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having a network connection is new territory for consoles.
Traditionally multiplayer meant you would gather a few mates and play together at your house.
That really still is the same in this sense...you can still go back and play the games you enjoyed.
The multiplayer component will be missing, and if that is what you wanted, then it really sucks.
I wouldn't be surprised if the community of gamers don't figure out a way around this and make their own private servers.
I would hope MS would be smart enough not to shut this down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042626</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>WCLPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1265384880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it?</p></div><p>Because Microsoft doesn't want you to play multi-player games on your fully functional eight year old original X-Box.  Instead they want you to go out and buy your fourth X-Box 360 and attempt to play multi-player games, assuming the thing doesn't get so hot it red rings again, or that the DVD drive will actually reads your disks.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it ? Because Microsoft does n't want you to play multi-player games on your fully functional eight year old original X-Box .
Instead they want you to go out and buy your fourth X-Box 360 and attempt to play multi-player games , assuming the thing does n't get so hot it red rings again , or that the DVD drive will actually reads your disks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it?Because Microsoft doesn't want you to play multi-player games on your fully functional eight year old original X-Box.
Instead they want you to go out and buy your fourth X-Box 360 and attempt to play multi-player games, assuming the thing doesn't get so hot it red rings again, or that the DVD drive will actually reads your disks.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040386</id>
	<title>Re:Better PR</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265368920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only Microsoft can more than afford to continue supporting Xbox Live on legacy titles, and remain profitable even.  Or at least release some server tools so that people can host their own games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only Microsoft can more than afford to continue supporting Xbox Live on legacy titles , and remain profitable even .
Or at least release some server tools so that people can host their own games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only Microsoft can more than afford to continue supporting Xbox Live on legacy titles, and remain profitable even.
Or at least release some server tools so that people can host their own games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039892</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265366760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He means that those services could never have been brought to a gaming console in the living room without an established online service model.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He means that those services could never have been brought to a gaming console in the living room without an established online service model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He means that those services could never have been brought to a gaming console in the living room without an established online service model.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039084</id>
	<title>Thisis a GREAT thing..</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1265363040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because the demand for a "fake"  Xboxlive server just became reality.</p><p>Someone will hack one together in short order and post the code out  there.</p><p>I love it when Microsoft creates a need for someone to completely hack a service they were providing and decided to end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the demand for a " fake " Xboxlive server just became reality.Someone will hack one together in short order and post the code out there.I love it when Microsoft creates a need for someone to completely hack a service they were providing and decided to end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the demand for a "fake"  Xboxlive server just became reality.Someone will hack one together in short order and post the code out  there.I love it when Microsoft creates a need for someone to completely hack a service they were providing and decided to end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038748</id>
	<title>Better PR</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1265361420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think they would be better off if they were honest, instead of hiding behind public-relations speak.  How about:</p><p>"We are shutting down XBOX live for old games because the economy sucks, and we either provide service for old games, or service for new games.  We can't afford infinite amounts of computer power.  It would be awesome to provide service for older games forever, sorry.  We hope we have provided service for long enough to warrant continued purchase of future XBOX titles.  Have a nice day."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think they would be better off if they were honest , instead of hiding behind public-relations speak .
How about : " We are shutting down XBOX live for old games because the economy sucks , and we either provide service for old games , or service for new games .
We ca n't afford infinite amounts of computer power .
It would be awesome to provide service for older games forever , sorry .
We hope we have provided service for long enough to warrant continued purchase of future XBOX titles .
Have a nice day .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think they would be better off if they were honest, instead of hiding behind public-relations speak.
How about:"We are shutting down XBOX live for old games because the economy sucks, and we either provide service for old games, or service for new games.
We can't afford infinite amounts of computer power.
It would be awesome to provide service for older games forever, sorry.
We hope we have provided service for long enough to warrant continued purchase of future XBOX titles.
Have a nice day.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042154</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>Bungie</author>
	<datestamp>1265380920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://doomlegacy.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net">DooM Legacy</a> [sourceforge.net] is a build of the Doom engine for Windows which adds updated features like TCP/IP network play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DooM Legacy [ sourceforge.net ] is a build of the Doom engine for Windows which adds updated features like TCP/IP network play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> DooM Legacy [sourceforge.net] is a build of the Doom engine for Windows which adds updated features like TCP/IP network play.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038632</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1265361000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well this is just fine.<br>Microsoft should now open the SDK and open the XBox protocols so somebody else can take over support for their games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well this is just fine.Microsoft should now open the SDK and open the XBox protocols so somebody else can take over support for their games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well this is just fine.Microsoft should now open the SDK and open the XBox protocols so somebody else can take over support for their games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040302</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1265368500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...</p></div><p>The users are paying for a service that is working fine. Or at least, fine enough to keep them paying. Microsoft is doing this solely to force them to stop playing gamest that they enjoy, and spend more money on alternatives. The implication with paying for the service is that it makes a profit, and that it should continue as long as this is so. Therefore, if Microsoft is doing this for any reason other than that they are now losing money on it, they are right bastards. It might not be legally actionable, but it is going to drive some people away.</p><p>For those of us who have never paid for Xbox Live (the trial was underwhelming at best; the best reason for me to have Live Gold was to have Netflix, but it doesn't buffer like paid movie and music downloads do, and my connection isn't fast enough for streaming netflix though I have enough monthly transfer for it, so that's useless to me) and never bought a game based on the Xbox Live functionality, this is ample reason to never do so. In theory, my WISP was going to be upgrading their equipment to the point where I could get low enough latency to play games on Live, and I would have subscribed at that time. Now, I certainly will not, because I know that Microsoft will eventually yank the rug out from under those games. I always suspected it because I am not a moron, but now I am sure. Since I won't have Live Gold, I won't be buying any games with a limp single player, which is most of them, so that translates into lost license fees for Microsoft.</p><p>Hopefully, when PS3 starts charging and Microsoft cuts off Xbox Live users on Xbox (perhaps it should be renamed to <strong>Xbox 360 Live</strong>) this will spark a resurgence in interest in PC gaming. Now that many developers have shifted to making Xbox 360 games and doing a PC port, hopefully more of them will support gamepads properly. Some games demand a joystick, some mouse and keyboard; some games, however, are most playable with a gamepad. Often, support for gamepads has been soft on the PC...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...The users are paying for a service that is working fine .
Or at least , fine enough to keep them paying .
Microsoft is doing this solely to force them to stop playing gamest that they enjoy , and spend more money on alternatives .
The implication with paying for the service is that it makes a profit , and that it should continue as long as this is so .
Therefore , if Microsoft is doing this for any reason other than that they are now losing money on it , they are right bastards .
It might not be legally actionable , but it is going to drive some people away.For those of us who have never paid for Xbox Live ( the trial was underwhelming at best ; the best reason for me to have Live Gold was to have Netflix , but it does n't buffer like paid movie and music downloads do , and my connection is n't fast enough for streaming netflix though I have enough monthly transfer for it , so that 's useless to me ) and never bought a game based on the Xbox Live functionality , this is ample reason to never do so .
In theory , my WISP was going to be upgrading their equipment to the point where I could get low enough latency to play games on Live , and I would have subscribed at that time .
Now , I certainly will not , because I know that Microsoft will eventually yank the rug out from under those games .
I always suspected it because I am not a moron , but now I am sure .
Since I wo n't have Live Gold , I wo n't be buying any games with a limp single player , which is most of them , so that translates into lost license fees for Microsoft.Hopefully , when PS3 starts charging and Microsoft cuts off Xbox Live users on Xbox ( perhaps it should be renamed to Xbox 360 Live ) this will spark a resurgence in interest in PC gaming .
Now that many developers have shifted to making Xbox 360 games and doing a PC port , hopefully more of them will support gamepads properly .
Some games demand a joystick , some mouse and keyboard ; some games , however , are most playable with a gamepad .
Often , support for gamepads has been soft on the PC.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...The users are paying for a service that is working fine.
Or at least, fine enough to keep them paying.
Microsoft is doing this solely to force them to stop playing gamest that they enjoy, and spend more money on alternatives.
The implication with paying for the service is that it makes a profit, and that it should continue as long as this is so.
Therefore, if Microsoft is doing this for any reason other than that they are now losing money on it, they are right bastards.
It might not be legally actionable, but it is going to drive some people away.For those of us who have never paid for Xbox Live (the trial was underwhelming at best; the best reason for me to have Live Gold was to have Netflix, but it doesn't buffer like paid movie and music downloads do, and my connection isn't fast enough for streaming netflix though I have enough monthly transfer for it, so that's useless to me) and never bought a game based on the Xbox Live functionality, this is ample reason to never do so.
In theory, my WISP was going to be upgrading their equipment to the point where I could get low enough latency to play games on Live, and I would have subscribed at that time.
Now, I certainly will not, because I know that Microsoft will eventually yank the rug out from under those games.
I always suspected it because I am not a moron, but now I am sure.
Since I won't have Live Gold, I won't be buying any games with a limp single player, which is most of them, so that translates into lost license fees for Microsoft.Hopefully, when PS3 starts charging and Microsoft cuts off Xbox Live users on Xbox (perhaps it should be renamed to Xbox 360 Live) this will spark a resurgence in interest in PC gaming.
Now that many developers have shifted to making Xbox 360 games and doing a PC port, hopefully more of them will support gamepads properly.
Some games demand a joystick, some mouse and keyboard; some games, however, are most playable with a gamepad.
Often, support for gamepads has been soft on the PC...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31043844</id>
	<title>Re:Is anyone surprised?</title>
	<author>apoc.famine</author>
	<datestamp>1265399580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once per game, it would seem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once per game , it would seem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once per game, it would seem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040574</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265369940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>two words: DOSBox, Bitch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>two words : DOSBox , Bitch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>two words: DOSBox, Bitch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038564</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Dan667</author>
	<datestamp>1265360700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They could have released a server so people could set up their own if they wanted to continue to use it.  This is why vendor lock-in on consoles sucks in the first place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They could have released a server so people could set up their own if they wanted to continue to use it .
This is why vendor lock-in on consoles sucks in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They could have released a server so people could set up their own if they wanted to continue to use it.
This is why vendor lock-in on consoles sucks in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038892</id>
	<title>There's no reason not to mod it now.</title>
	<author>pacbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1265362140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I haven't played a game on mine in over 5 years, but instead just use xbmc and mce to stream movies from a PC to a non-HD TV.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't played a game on mine in over 5 years , but instead just use xbmc and mce to stream movies from a PC to a non-HD TV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't played a game on mine in over 5 years, but instead just use xbmc and mce to stream movies from a PC to a non-HD TV.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31044196</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1265451060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing stops you from just using old hardware, there are tons of old PCs still floating around, so it shouldn't be to hard to find one. If you want to use your modern hardware, use DOSBox. Sure, getting the proper original game play experience back can be a little troublesome at times, but there is a big difference between something requiring a little bit of work and something being flat out impossible thanks to DRM or centralized servers.</p><p>The biggest practical issue I had with getting 15 year old PC stuff to run was that many games of that time no longer used DOS, but Windows with its early incarnations of DirectX, which meant that they won't run in DOSbox and neither on a modern Windows. Getting Windows98 along with the drivers installed was a little troublesome, but still doable, getting the drivers was actually the biggest problem, as many vendors (especially Creative) just don't offer them anymore, so you better have a backup.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me.</p></div><p>We aren't taking about 15 year old games, we are talking about 5 year old games, some of which you might have bought yesterday as Xbox Classic on your Xbox360.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing stops you from just using old hardware , there are tons of old PCs still floating around , so it should n't be to hard to find one .
If you want to use your modern hardware , use DOSBox .
Sure , getting the proper original game play experience back can be a little troublesome at times , but there is a big difference between something requiring a little bit of work and something being flat out impossible thanks to DRM or centralized servers.The biggest practical issue I had with getting 15 year old PC stuff to run was that many games of that time no longer used DOS , but Windows with its early incarnations of DirectX , which meant that they wo n't run in DOSbox and neither on a modern Windows .
Getting Windows98 along with the drivers installed was a little troublesome , but still doable , getting the drivers was actually the biggest problem , as many vendors ( especially Creative ) just do n't offer them anymore , so you better have a backup.Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me.We are n't taking about 15 year old games , we are talking about 5 year old games , some of which you might have bought yesterday as Xbox Classic on your Xbox360 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing stops you from just using old hardware, there are tons of old PCs still floating around, so it shouldn't be to hard to find one.
If you want to use your modern hardware, use DOSBox.
Sure, getting the proper original game play experience back can be a little troublesome at times, but there is a big difference between something requiring a little bit of work and something being flat out impossible thanks to DRM or centralized servers.The biggest practical issue I had with getting 15 year old PC stuff to run was that many games of that time no longer used DOS, but Windows with its early incarnations of DirectX, which meant that they won't run in DOSbox and neither on a modern Windows.
Getting Windows98 along with the drivers installed was a little troublesome, but still doable, getting the drivers was actually the biggest problem, as many vendors (especially Creative) just don't offer them anymore, so you better have a backup.Fretting about not being able to play a 15-year-old game just seems silly to me.We aren't taking about 15 year old games, we are talking about 5 year old games, some of which you might have bought yesterday as Xbox Classic on your Xbox360.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039524</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265364960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Support requirements for a gaming community do not compare to support cycles of an OS. If MS want to stop hosting Xbox v1 game-servers, then offer an alternative so that I can host myown v1 game-servers. I'd rent a hosted server to play older games with my friends. Hell, the games are only 8-5years old, thats nothing!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Support requirements for a gaming community do not compare to support cycles of an OS .
If MS want to stop hosting Xbox v1 game-servers , then offer an alternative so that I can host myown v1 game-servers .
I 'd rent a hosted server to play older games with my friends .
Hell , the games are only 8-5years old , thats nothing !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Support requirements for a gaming community do not compare to support cycles of an OS.
If MS want to stop hosting Xbox v1 game-servers, then offer an alternative so that I can host myown v1 game-servers.
I'd rent a hosted server to play older games with my friends.
Hell, the games are only 8-5years old, thats nothing!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038304</id>
	<title>Date</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265402760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you sure they did't mean April 1st?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you sure they did't mean April 1st ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you sure they did't mean April 1st?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039534</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>MogNuts</author>
	<datestamp>1265365020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good post. It's nice you posted a solution. I just want to spell it out though, because I don't think fellow<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers realize the gravity of this. What happens to PC games using LIVE? When they hit the switch, games like RE5 and Gears of War, that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches, won't even be able to save or access your old saved game! And what happens with the 360? People still play Oblivion. What happens if you need a patch from XBL (which is absolutely necessary)? You're screwed. So basically the precedent has been set. Once a new XBox is out, it's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are *worthless*.</p><p>I can't believe no one realized this when they read the article. I saw it and thought this is the biggest (and SCARIEST) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good post .
It 's nice you posted a solution .
I just want to spell it out though , because I do n't think fellow / .
'ers realize the gravity of this .
What happens to PC games using LIVE ?
When they hit the switch , games like RE5 and Gears of War , that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches , wo n't even be able to save or access your old saved game !
And what happens with the 360 ?
People still play Oblivion .
What happens if you need a patch from XBL ( which is absolutely necessary ) ?
You 're screwed .
So basically the precedent has been set .
Once a new XBox is out , it 's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are * worthless * .I ca n't believe no one realized this when they read the article .
I saw it and thought this is the biggest ( and SCARIEST ) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good post.
It's nice you posted a solution.
I just want to spell it out though, because I don't think fellow /.
'ers realize the gravity of this.
What happens to PC games using LIVE?
When they hit the switch, games like RE5 and Gears of War, that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches, won't even be able to save or access your old saved game!
And what happens with the 360?
People still play Oblivion.
What happens if you need a patch from XBL (which is absolutely necessary)?
You're screwed.
So basically the precedent has been set.
Once a new XBox is out, it's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are *worthless*.I can't believe no one realized this when they read the article.
I saw it and thought this is the biggest (and SCARIEST) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1265403000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."</p><p>You wouldn't have this problem on PC, anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever... " You would n't have this problem on PC , anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."You wouldn't have this problem on PC, anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038936</id>
	<title>Already a trend</title>
	<author>revengebomber</author>
	<datestamp>1265362380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let's talk about some old games. Take, for one, Halo 2. It's now going to be permanently offline, as a result of it being connected to Microsoft's services. Let's go back though. Take a look at Jedi Knight. Can you play that online anymore? Nope. Microsoft service. Dead. Any of those other MSN/"Zone" games? Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online, so the games all still support that.<br> <br>
But - Quake 2? Still kicking. Released the same year as JK, too, IIRC. Microsoft continues to do this; they entice game developers with easy online/multiplayer libraries and then kill the service to force people to upgrade. I fear for all the Games for Windows games; that's why I'll never buy a title that uses Games for Windows Live. 10 years down the road, all those games will be permanently offline too, as will (likely) all this trash like CoD42 which uses an even smaller and even more restricted network. Meanwhile, I'll still be playing Quake 3 (and hopefully RAGE, now that it's not being published by EA).<br> <br>

DirectPlay. Live. When will developers learn?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's talk about some old games .
Take , for one , Halo 2 .
It 's now going to be permanently offline , as a result of it being connected to Microsoft 's services .
Let 's go back though .
Take a look at Jedi Knight .
Can you play that online anymore ?
Nope. Microsoft service .
Dead. Any of those other MSN/ " Zone " games ?
Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online , so the games all still support that .
But - Quake 2 ?
Still kicking .
Released the same year as JK , too , IIRC .
Microsoft continues to do this ; they entice game developers with easy online/multiplayer libraries and then kill the service to force people to upgrade .
I fear for all the Games for Windows games ; that 's why I 'll never buy a title that uses Games for Windows Live .
10 years down the road , all those games will be permanently offline too , as will ( likely ) all this trash like CoD42 which uses an even smaller and even more restricted network .
Meanwhile , I 'll still be playing Quake 3 ( and hopefully RAGE , now that it 's not being published by EA ) .
DirectPlay. Live .
When will developers learn ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's talk about some old games.
Take, for one, Halo 2.
It's now going to be permanently offline, as a result of it being connected to Microsoft's services.
Let's go back though.
Take a look at Jedi Knight.
Can you play that online anymore?
Nope. Microsoft service.
Dead. Any of those other MSN/"Zone" games?
Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online, so the games all still support that.
But - Quake 2?
Still kicking.
Released the same year as JK, too, IIRC.
Microsoft continues to do this; they entice game developers with easy online/multiplayer libraries and then kill the service to force people to upgrade.
I fear for all the Games for Windows games; that's why I'll never buy a title that uses Games for Windows Live.
10 years down the road, all those games will be permanently offline too, as will (likely) all this trash like CoD42 which uses an even smaller and even more restricted network.
Meanwhile, I'll still be playing Quake 3 (and hopefully RAGE, now that it's not being published by EA).
DirectPlay. Live.
When will developers learn?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31046430</id>
	<title>about time!</title>
	<author>Scarumanga</author>
	<datestamp>1265480460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a good thing, that means more bandwidth and lower ping times for people who play 360 games, who wants to play halo 2 instead of halo 3 though? IMO halo 3 kicks the crap out of 2 any day of the week, looks better, plays better, is better. There is no excuse to NOT own a 360 by now, they have been out for 5 years and are dirt cheap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a good thing , that means more bandwidth and lower ping times for people who play 360 games , who wants to play halo 2 instead of halo 3 though ?
IMO halo 3 kicks the crap out of 2 any day of the week , looks better , plays better , is better .
There is no excuse to NOT own a 360 by now , they have been out for 5 years and are dirt cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a good thing, that means more bandwidth and lower ping times for people who play 360 games, who wants to play halo 2 instead of halo 3 though?
IMO halo 3 kicks the crap out of 2 any day of the week, looks better, plays better, is better.
There is no excuse to NOT own a 360 by now, they have been out for 5 years and are dirt cheap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038394</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>santax</author>
	<datestamp>1265403180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are more options.
A mod-chip and xboxconnect will do just fine.
What's the use of buying games when you can't be certain you can play the (full) game a year from now?

I have other things I could use that hard earned cash for. I never had Fender call me to say that I could only use the G-string from that point on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are more options .
A mod-chip and xboxconnect will do just fine .
What 's the use of buying games when you ca n't be certain you can play the ( full ) game a year from now ?
I have other things I could use that hard earned cash for .
I never had Fender call me to say that I could only use the G-string from that point on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are more options.
A mod-chip and xboxconnect will do just fine.
What's the use of buying games when you can't be certain you can play the (full) game a year from now?
I have other things I could use that hard earned cash for.
I never had Fender call me to say that I could only use the G-string from that point on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042906</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265387700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong. You can still use win 95 today with all its features as advertised in 1995. You can not with xbox1 multiplayer games. This is a case of defective by design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
You can still use win 95 today with all its features as advertised in 1995 .
You can not with xbox1 multiplayer games .
This is a case of defective by design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
You can still use win 95 today with all its features as advertised in 1995.
You can not with xbox1 multiplayer games.
This is a case of defective by design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041174</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>GreatDrok</author>
	<datestamp>1265373660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The PS2 came out before the Xbox and is still being made and new games are still being produced albeit in lower numbers.  With the 360 came out, the original Xbox disappeared almost over night and games for it stopped immediately too.  When the 360 replacement comes out I fully expect the same thing to happen so despite the fact that I have a 360 and  enjoy the system (albeit after 2 RROD repairs) I will seriously consider my options when the time comes.</p><p>The PS3 has likely got another 7 years in it at least based on the lifespans of the PS1 and PS2 so even though I don't currently have a PS3 I may buy one in the next year or two knowing that I'll get a good run with it.  I wonder how much life today's 360 purchasers can expect given that the original Xbox only had a 5 year run?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The PS2 came out before the Xbox and is still being made and new games are still being produced albeit in lower numbers .
With the 360 came out , the original Xbox disappeared almost over night and games for it stopped immediately too .
When the 360 replacement comes out I fully expect the same thing to happen so despite the fact that I have a 360 and enjoy the system ( albeit after 2 RROD repairs ) I will seriously consider my options when the time comes.The PS3 has likely got another 7 years in it at least based on the lifespans of the PS1 and PS2 so even though I do n't currently have a PS3 I may buy one in the next year or two knowing that I 'll get a good run with it .
I wonder how much life today 's 360 purchasers can expect given that the original Xbox only had a 5 year run ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The PS2 came out before the Xbox and is still being made and new games are still being produced albeit in lower numbers.
With the 360 came out, the original Xbox disappeared almost over night and games for it stopped immediately too.
When the 360 replacement comes out I fully expect the same thing to happen so despite the fact that I have a 360 and  enjoy the system (albeit after 2 RROD repairs) I will seriously consider my options when the time comes.The PS3 has likely got another 7 years in it at least based on the lifespans of the PS1 and PS2 so even though I don't currently have a PS3 I may buy one in the next year or two knowing that I'll get a good run with it.
I wonder how much life today's 360 purchasers can expect given that the original Xbox only had a 5 year run?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038522</id>
	<title>Dedicated servers</title>
	<author>TyFoN</author>
	<datestamp>1265360520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this is why you want player controlled dedicated servers for your<br>favorite FPS or RTS game. A game studio will eventually shut down the central<br>one because of the lack of $$. Oh and I am still waiting for a game studio to<br>try the monthly fee route for their central server<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this is why you want player controlled dedicated servers for yourfavorite FPS or RTS game .
A game studio will eventually shut down the centralone because of the lack of $ $ .
Oh and I am still waiting for a game studio totry the monthly fee route for their central server : p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this is why you want player controlled dedicated servers for yourfavorite FPS or RTS game.
A game studio will eventually shut down the centralone because of the lack of $$.
Oh and I am still waiting for a game studio totry the monthly fee route for their central server :p</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31043974</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1265488740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>Yes, it would be a herculean task for them to support people setting up their own master servers.<br><br>You're right--MS would probably fuck it up.</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it would be a herculean task for them to support people setting up their own master servers.You 're right--MS would probably fuck it up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it would be a herculean task for them to support people setting up their own master servers.You're right--MS would probably fuck it up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040780</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265371200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hello Professor, Would you like to play a game?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hello Professor , Would you like to play a game ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hello Professor, Would you like to play a game?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31043998</id>
	<title>Re:In order to serve you better...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265489400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>acutally, coming from microsoft that sentence is perfectly rational.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>acutally , coming from microsoft that sentence is perfectly rational .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>acutally, coming from microsoft that sentence is perfectly rational.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040722</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>zero\_out</author>
	<datestamp>1265370840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now.</p></div><p>Try <a href="http://www.dosbox.com/" title="dosbox.com" rel="nofollow">DOSBox</a> [dosbox.com].  It emulates DOS just fine for gaming.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing , good luck getting them to run now.Try DOSBox [ dosbox.com ] .
It emulates DOS just fine for gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of DOS games that I enjoyed playing, good luck getting them to run now.Try DOSBox [dosbox.com].
It emulates DOS just fine for gaming.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042526</id>
	<title>Re:Hahahaha</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1265383860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had an Xbox before they released Live.  It was unmodded.  I remember downloading some software onto my desktop that allowed you to connect to some server that was hosting multi-player Halo.  I only did it once just to see how it worked out so I really don't remember details.  I do know it was possible though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had an Xbox before they released Live .
It was unmodded .
I remember downloading some software onto my desktop that allowed you to connect to some server that was hosting multi-player Halo .
I only did it once just to see how it worked out so I really do n't remember details .
I do know it was possible though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had an Xbox before they released Live.
It was unmodded.
I remember downloading some software onto my desktop that allowed you to connect to some server that was hosting multi-player Halo.
I only did it once just to see how it worked out so I really don't remember details.
I do know it was possible though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038344</id>
	<title>Planned Obsolesence</title>
	<author>Adrian Lopez</author>
	<datestamp>1265402940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll be sure to keep this in mind before purchasing any games through Xbox Live Marketplace.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll be sure to keep this in mind before purchasing any games through Xbox Live Marketplace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll be sure to keep this in mind before purchasing any games through Xbox Live Marketplace.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040296</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>guspasho</author>
	<datestamp>1265368500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He means that without the multiplayer network Microsoft would not have been able to leech money off of these products.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He means that without the multiplayer network Microsoft would not have been able to leech money off of these products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He means that without the multiplayer network Microsoft would not have been able to leech money off of these products.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038466</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1265403480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The issue, of course, is less with exactly when a given product is deprecated, and more with how many products are designed such that deprecation is effectively terminal.<br> <br>

It is hard to make a case for forcing a company to continue to offer a particular good or service(unless they contractually obligated themselves and are violating that contract); but the fact that product design is moving in the direction of deprecation = death is extremely disturbing.<br> <br>

Historically, with PC games, the creator may or may not have offered a matchmaking service or servers at all, but there was nothing stopping 3rd parties from doing so. Increasingly, through a combination of DRM activation and closer tying of matchmaking services and multiplayer servers to the core game, it is becoming difficult for 3rd parties to step up(and, if they do, they often place themselves in the line of fire with respect to some DMCA or equivalent legal hassle). On the hardware side, it is a matter of driver specs and parts. If driver specs aren't available, deprecation is death more or less as soon as the next major OS comes out. If service guides/tools/parts are tightly restricted, deprecation is death as soon as the parts dry up.<br> <br>

The fact that products get deprecated is fine. The fact that the severity of deprecation is markedly increasing, and promises only to increase further, is very, very troubling.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue , of course , is less with exactly when a given product is deprecated , and more with how many products are designed such that deprecation is effectively terminal .
It is hard to make a case for forcing a company to continue to offer a particular good or service ( unless they contractually obligated themselves and are violating that contract ) ; but the fact that product design is moving in the direction of deprecation = death is extremely disturbing .
Historically , with PC games , the creator may or may not have offered a matchmaking service or servers at all , but there was nothing stopping 3rd parties from doing so .
Increasingly , through a combination of DRM activation and closer tying of matchmaking services and multiplayer servers to the core game , it is becoming difficult for 3rd parties to step up ( and , if they do , they often place themselves in the line of fire with respect to some DMCA or equivalent legal hassle ) .
On the hardware side , it is a matter of driver specs and parts .
If driver specs are n't available , deprecation is death more or less as soon as the next major OS comes out .
If service guides/tools/parts are tightly restricted , deprecation is death as soon as the parts dry up .
The fact that products get deprecated is fine .
The fact that the severity of deprecation is markedly increasing , and promises only to increase further , is very , very troubling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue, of course, is less with exactly when a given product is deprecated, and more with how many products are designed such that deprecation is effectively terminal.
It is hard to make a case for forcing a company to continue to offer a particular good or service(unless they contractually obligated themselves and are violating that contract); but the fact that product design is moving in the direction of deprecation = death is extremely disturbing.
Historically, with PC games, the creator may or may not have offered a matchmaking service or servers at all, but there was nothing stopping 3rd parties from doing so.
Increasingly, through a combination of DRM activation and closer tying of matchmaking services and multiplayer servers to the core game, it is becoming difficult for 3rd parties to step up(and, if they do, they often place themselves in the line of fire with respect to some DMCA or equivalent legal hassle).
On the hardware side, it is a matter of driver specs and parts.
If driver specs aren't available, deprecation is death more or less as soon as the next major OS comes out.
If service guides/tools/parts are tightly restricted, deprecation is death as soon as the parts dry up.
The fact that products get deprecated is fine.
The fact that the severity of deprecation is markedly increasing, and promises only to increase further, is very, very troubling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038424</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265403300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I, for one, will gladly accept those consequences since for me they are more than outweighed by the benefits of having things as easy as possible while the game is supported. No drivers, no installation woes, no licensing issues - it all just works out of the box. If that means that after a couple of years the product is no longer supported, so be it. Disposable income I have, but free time to do things I enjoy I don't have enough of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I , for one , will gladly accept those consequences since for me they are more than outweighed by the benefits of having things as easy as possible while the game is supported .
No drivers , no installation woes , no licensing issues - it all just works out of the box .
If that means that after a couple of years the product is no longer supported , so be it .
Disposable income I have , but free time to do things I enjoy I do n't have enough of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, for one, will gladly accept those consequences since for me they are more than outweighed by the benefits of having things as easy as possible while the game is supported.
No drivers, no installation woes, no licensing issues - it all just works out of the box.
If that means that after a couple of years the product is no longer supported, so be it.
Disposable income I have, but free time to do things I enjoy I don't have enough of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038410</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265403240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not when the server list or auth servers go down. You <i>might</i> be able to still connect to ip address directly, but that means you need to find lots of friends to come play with you (especially in team based games where you need something like 16+ players for it to be fun).</p><p>It's time to fun to newer better games. Or just stay on single player games. Everyone playing multiplayer games has to know that at some point the player base will die because people move to new games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not when the server list or auth servers go down .
You might be able to still connect to ip address directly , but that means you need to find lots of friends to come play with you ( especially in team based games where you need something like 16 + players for it to be fun ) .It 's time to fun to newer better games .
Or just stay on single player games .
Everyone playing multiplayer games has to know that at some point the player base will die because people move to new games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not when the server list or auth servers go down.
You might be able to still connect to ip address directly, but that means you need to find lots of friends to come play with you (especially in team based games where you need something like 16+ players for it to be fun).It's time to fun to newer better games.
Or just stay on single player games.
Everyone playing multiplayer games has to know that at some point the player base will die because people move to new games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041298</id>
	<title>I would make</title>
	<author>Mehall</author>
	<datestamp>1265374500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would make some kind of reference to Steam, or the pspGO and the 360 Live service, but if I say anything about Sony discontinuing the GO, then I'd need to admit something:</p><p>If Sony were to discontinue the pspGO service, it would probably be a week before it was well known.</p><p>But on topic:</p><p>This is something that was predictable, and part of the reason why I was avoiding getting a 360, and why I only got an XBox when it was down to &pound;10</p><p>Then again, both the Microsoft consoles now sit next to every other console I own, and fit in rather well with the crowd, but I don't use them online.</p><p>Remind me what the point of this was?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would make some kind of reference to Steam , or the pspGO and the 360 Live service , but if I say anything about Sony discontinuing the GO , then I 'd need to admit something : If Sony were to discontinue the pspGO service , it would probably be a week before it was well known.But on topic : This is something that was predictable , and part of the reason why I was avoiding getting a 360 , and why I only got an XBox when it was down to   10Then again , both the Microsoft consoles now sit next to every other console I own , and fit in rather well with the crowd , but I do n't use them online.Remind me what the point of this was ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would make some kind of reference to Steam, or the pspGO and the 360 Live service, but if I say anything about Sony discontinuing the GO, then I'd need to admit something:If Sony were to discontinue the pspGO service, it would probably be a week before it was well known.But on topic:This is something that was predictable, and part of the reason why I was avoiding getting a 360, and why I only got an XBox when it was down to £10Then again, both the Microsoft consoles now sit next to every other console I own, and fit in rather well with the crowd, but I don't use them online.Remind me what the point of this was?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041860</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265378400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...
Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why. Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.</p></div><p>Yeah, I'd be more sympathetic to that argument if we weren't <i>paying them money to use their service</i>.  If I pay for an XBox Live account, I damn well expect my Xbox Live games to continue working with it!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever.. . Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated , no matter when , no matter how , no matter why .
Microsoft can and Microsoft shall , that 's the price for being at their hands .
The reward ?
To get to use their products.Yeah , I 'd be more sympathetic to that argument if we were n't paying them money to use their service .
If I pay for an XBox Live account , I damn well expect my Xbox Live games to continue working with it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...
Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why.
Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands.
The reward?
To get to use their products.Yeah, I'd be more sympathetic to that argument if we weren't paying them money to use their service.
If I pay for an XBox Live account, I damn well expect my Xbox Live games to continue working with it!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038802</id>
	<title>Re:In order to serve you better...</title>
	<author>zero\_out</author>
	<datestamp>1265361660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The statement was that it is better for the community, not for an individual member of the community.  This could mean a lot of things.  It could mean that the servers that were running these older games will get replaced, and their racks used for new games.  This might hurt 1,000 players, but benefit 10,000 at the same time.  The community as a whole would benefit from this.  It could also mean that MS believes these people who continue to play older games will spend more time playing newer games, and thus strengthen a weaker community, much like MMO's sometimes merge servers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The statement was that it is better for the community , not for an individual member of the community .
This could mean a lot of things .
It could mean that the servers that were running these older games will get replaced , and their racks used for new games .
This might hurt 1,000 players , but benefit 10,000 at the same time .
The community as a whole would benefit from this .
It could also mean that MS believes these people who continue to play older games will spend more time playing newer games , and thus strengthen a weaker community , much like MMO 's sometimes merge servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The statement was that it is better for the community, not for an individual member of the community.
This could mean a lot of things.
It could mean that the servers that were running these older games will get replaced, and their racks used for new games.
This might hurt 1,000 players, but benefit 10,000 at the same time.
The community as a whole would benefit from this.
It could also mean that MS believes these people who continue to play older games will spend more time playing newer games, and thus strengthen a weaker community, much like MMO's sometimes merge servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041190</id>
	<title>What does "stopping support" mean?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1265373720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does "stopping support" mean that your Windows 98, 2000, or XP box stops working? That any functionality stops working? All it means is... you have to go to someone like WindizUpdate for your driver updates and patches instead of Microsoft.</p><p>That's the problem with software that depends on a service. When they pull the plug, it stops working right then and there. Poof. It's gone.</p><p>At least you can still use your XBox offline.</p><p>Now... keep THAT in mind when you get ready to plonk down thirty bucks on one of the new games that are coming along that require you to connect to the server just to play locally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does " stopping support " mean that your Windows 98 , 2000 , or XP box stops working ?
That any functionality stops working ?
All it means is... you have to go to someone like WindizUpdate for your driver updates and patches instead of Microsoft.That 's the problem with software that depends on a service .
When they pull the plug , it stops working right then and there .
Poof. It 's gone.At least you can still use your XBox offline.Now... keep THAT in mind when you get ready to plonk down thirty bucks on one of the new games that are coming along that require you to connect to the server just to play locally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does "stopping support" mean that your Windows 98, 2000, or XP box stops working?
That any functionality stops working?
All it means is... you have to go to someone like WindizUpdate for your driver updates and patches instead of Microsoft.That's the problem with software that depends on a service.
When they pull the plug, it stops working right then and there.
Poof. It's gone.At least you can still use your XBox offline.Now... keep THAT in mind when you get ready to plonk down thirty bucks on one of the new games that are coming along that require you to connect to the server just to play locally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038826</id>
	<title>To move forward what choice did they have?</title>
	<author>grapeape</author>
	<datestamp>1265361780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People have complained for years about the 100 tag limit on friends list and other seemingly stupid limitations put into place.  The reasoning offered by MS then was that in order to maintain compatabilty with original xbox games the limitations in the original live service had to follow over to the 360.</p><p>MS has decided after 5 years of the 360 to remove the legacy caps by removing support for a platform that hasnt been sold in 5 years.  You cant really have it both ways...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People have complained for years about the 100 tag limit on friends list and other seemingly stupid limitations put into place .
The reasoning offered by MS then was that in order to maintain compatabilty with original xbox games the limitations in the original live service had to follow over to the 360.MS has decided after 5 years of the 360 to remove the legacy caps by removing support for a platform that hasnt been sold in 5 years .
You cant really have it both ways.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People have complained for years about the 100 tag limit on friends list and other seemingly stupid limitations put into place.
The reasoning offered by MS then was that in order to maintain compatabilty with original xbox games the limitations in the original live service had to follow over to the 360.MS has decided after 5 years of the 360 to remove the legacy caps by removing support for a platform that hasnt been sold in 5 years.
You cant really have it both ways...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040220</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>RyuuzakiTetsuya</author>
	<datestamp>1265368140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).</p></div><p>The problem is, the games on PC *suck*.</p><p>Online support shouldn't be provisional, but it's de-facto provisional.  Armored Core 4: For Answer still has online servers running but...  No one's playing.  They might as well shut the servers down.  For many games that has online support, LAN still works, and LAN VPN is always an option.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The answer is the PC games model we already had , where the platform is open and the infrastructure is n't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life ( xbox live ) .The problem is , the games on PC * suck * .Online support should n't be provisional , but it 's de-facto provisional .
Armored Core 4 : For Answer still has online servers running but... No one 's playing .
They might as well shut the servers down .
For many games that has online support , LAN still works , and LAN VPN is always an option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).The problem is, the games on PC *suck*.Online support shouldn't be provisional, but it's de-facto provisional.
Armored Core 4: For Answer still has online servers running but...  No one's playing.
They might as well shut the servers down.
For many games that has online support, LAN still works, and LAN VPN is always an option.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040560</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>iamhassi</author>
	<datestamp>1265369880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."</i>
<br> <br>
Forever?  <b>Is four years "forever"?</b>  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox\_360" title="wikipedia.org">The Xbox360 was released late 2005</a> [wikipedia.org], and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox" title="wikipedia.org">the original Xbox was discontinued late 2006 and the last game was released August 2008,</a> [wikipedia.org] so that means there's easily people with 4 year old Xbox consoles and 2 year old games looking at Microsoft saying <b> <i>"WTF?!  I just bought this thing!"</i> </b>.  If you bought your computer brand new in 2006 and Microsoft said "hey you can't have internet anymore after April, go buy a new system!" I'd imagine you'd be pretty upset.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever... " Forever ?
Is four years " forever " ?
The Xbox360 was released late 2005 [ wikipedia.org ] , and the original Xbox was discontinued late 2006 and the last game was released August 2008 , [ wikipedia.org ] so that means there 's easily people with 4 year old Xbox consoles and 2 year old games looking at Microsoft saying " WTF ? !
I just bought this thing !
" .
If you bought your computer brand new in 2006 and Microsoft said " hey you ca n't have internet anymore after April , go buy a new system !
" I 'd imagine you 'd be pretty upset .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."
 
Forever?
Is four years "forever"?
The Xbox360 was released late 2005 [wikipedia.org], and the original Xbox was discontinued late 2006 and the last game was released August 2008, [wikipedia.org] so that means there's easily people with 4 year old Xbox consoles and 2 year old games looking at Microsoft saying  "WTF?!
I just bought this thing!
" .
If you bought your computer brand new in 2006 and Microsoft said "hey you can't have internet anymore after April, go buy a new system!
" I'd imagine you'd be pretty upset.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039186</id>
	<title>Re:HA HA HA Serves you suckers right!</title>
	<author>xthor</author>
	<datestamp>1265363460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!) and generally being asshats.</p></div><p>I agreed with you, right up until that last comment.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you ( notice I only said less , you can only do so much !
) and generally being asshats.I agreed with you , right up until that last comment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!
) and generally being asshats.I agreed with you, right up until that last comment.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039080</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265363040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, how long do you honestly expect them to support it?  20 years?  The Xbox was released 8.5 years ago; in terms of consoles that's a long time.  As for PC games, sadly those are on the decline; more and more PC games are direct ports of console titles, including the locked-down server systems (MW2, anyone?).  I used to be a die-hard PC gamer, but the constant bullshit was just too much for me; I have since switched over to the dark side and have accepted the shortcomings of consoles in favor of their simplicity.  While I do miss the mouse and keyboard, I no longer have to deal with video drivers, SecuROM/SafeDisc, general stability problems, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , how long do you honestly expect them to support it ?
20 years ?
The Xbox was released 8.5 years ago ; in terms of consoles that 's a long time .
As for PC games , sadly those are on the decline ; more and more PC games are direct ports of console titles , including the locked-down server systems ( MW2 , anyone ? ) .
I used to be a die-hard PC gamer , but the constant bullshit was just too much for me ; I have since switched over to the dark side and have accepted the shortcomings of consoles in favor of their simplicity .
While I do miss the mouse and keyboard , I no longer have to deal with video drivers , SecuROM/SafeDisc , general stability problems , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, how long do you honestly expect them to support it?
20 years?
The Xbox was released 8.5 years ago; in terms of consoles that's a long time.
As for PC games, sadly those are on the decline; more and more PC games are direct ports of console titles, including the locked-down server systems (MW2, anyone?).
I used to be a die-hard PC gamer, but the constant bullshit was just too much for me; I have since switched over to the dark side and have accepted the shortcomings of consoles in favor of their simplicity.
While I do miss the mouse and keyboard, I no longer have to deal with video drivers, SecuROM/SafeDisc, general stability problems, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039286</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265363880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live? Really?</p></div></blockquote><p>It's pretty obvious that what he's referring to is the integration of those things into Live.  So obvious, in fact, that you're either an idiot for not seeing that or a liar for pretending that he said something else.  No other possibilities exist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Netflix , Facebook , and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live ?
Really ? It 's pretty obvious that what he 's referring to is the integration of those things into Live .
So obvious , in fact , that you 're either an idiot for not seeing that or a liar for pretending that he said something else .
No other possibilities exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live?
Really?It's pretty obvious that what he's referring to is the integration of those things into Live.
So obvious, in fact, that you're either an idiot for not seeing that or a liar for pretending that he said something else.
No other possibilities exist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038504</id>
	<title>In order to serve you better...</title>
	<author>Inf0phreak</author>
	<datestamp>1265360400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... we have decided not to serve you at all.
</p><p>
What do you say? That doesn't make any sense? Look! Shiny! New stuff for you to buy, Mr. Consumer!
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... we have decided not to serve you at all .
What do you say ?
That does n't make any sense ?
Look ! Shiny !
New stuff for you to buy , Mr. Consumer !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... we have decided not to serve you at all.
What do you say?
That doesn't make any sense?
Look! Shiny!
New stuff for you to buy, Mr. Consumer!
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038586</id>
	<title>PC Gaming is coming back in style</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265360820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>largely as a result of continued incidents like this.  People use to say they could just set up a console and use it are now having to deal with real quality issues and vendor lock-in problems are realizing it is not actually such a great deal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>largely as a result of continued incidents like this .
People use to say they could just set up a console and use it are now having to deal with real quality issues and vendor lock-in problems are realizing it is not actually such a great deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>largely as a result of continued incidents like this.
People use to say they could just set up a console and use it are now having to deal with real quality issues and vendor lock-in problems are realizing it is not actually such a great deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039196</id>
	<title>XBOXGW FTW!</title>
	<author>Dark\_Gravity</author>
	<datestamp>1265363520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://xboxgw.com/index.html" title="xboxgw.com" rel="nofollow">http://xboxgw.com/index.html</a> [xboxgw.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //xboxgw.com/index.html [ xboxgw.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://xboxgw.com/index.html [xboxgw.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040072</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265367540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On the Xbox? No, probably not.</p><p>It's in the context of the statement that implies that no, netflix on the 360 probably wouldn't have been reasonably possible without Xbox live blazing a trail.</p><p>And they're probably right. It probably wouldn't have been worth it to netflix to create their own xbox application to use an internet connection if Xbox live hadn't happened first.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On the Xbox ?
No , probably not.It 's in the context of the statement that implies that no , netflix on the 360 probably would n't have been reasonably possible without Xbox live blazing a trail.And they 're probably right .
It probably would n't have been worth it to netflix to create their own xbox application to use an internet connection if Xbox live had n't happened first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the Xbox?
No, probably not.It's in the context of the statement that implies that no, netflix on the 360 probably wouldn't have been reasonably possible without Xbox live blazing a trail.And they're probably right.
It probably wouldn't have been worth it to netflix to create their own xbox application to use an internet connection if Xbox live hadn't happened first.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040446</id>
	<title>Re:Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265369160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DOSbox is pretty cool.</p><p>Games aren't just technology, they are art.  Technology becomes obsolete, art does not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DOSbox is pretty cool.Games are n't just technology , they are art .
Technology becomes obsolete , art does not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DOSbox is pretty cool.Games aren't just technology, they are art.
Technology becomes obsolete, art does not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040178</id>
	<title>My own personal crusade :)</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1265367960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker.</p></div><p>This applies to all games on the Steam platform. You can't even play a steam "backup" without illegally (due to the DMCA) bypassing the system which prevents you from playing a game without Steam doing its initial call-home-and-update dance.</p><p>This only applies to multiplayer-only games with only Xbox Live support and no LAN play, are there any? And of course, the online functionality of any Xbox Live-only (no LAN support) games. Now THAT category is very large. If what you cared about was playing those games into infinity, though, you should never have bought them on the Xbox.</p><p>Perhaps this will lead to some new Xbox Live replacement hacks, although without the server code, it won't do much good except in the case of games where the player machine is the server, and Xbox Live only provides matching. If you love your games, you need to <em>sniff and log some sample traffic now</em> so that you can provide the data to someone who is interested in taking on this challenge.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker.This applies to all games on the Steam platform .
You ca n't even play a steam " backup " without illegally ( due to the DMCA ) bypassing the system which prevents you from playing a game without Steam doing its initial call-home-and-update dance.This only applies to multiplayer-only games with only Xbox Live support and no LAN play , are there any ?
And of course , the online functionality of any Xbox Live-only ( no LAN support ) games .
Now THAT category is very large .
If what you cared about was playing those games into infinity , though , you should never have bought them on the Xbox.Perhaps this will lead to some new Xbox Live replacement hacks , although without the server code , it wo n't do much good except in the case of games where the player machine is the server , and Xbox Live only provides matching .
If you love your games , you need to sniff and log some sample traffic now so that you can provide the data to someone who is interested in taking on this challenge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker.This applies to all games on the Steam platform.
You can't even play a steam "backup" without illegally (due to the DMCA) bypassing the system which prevents you from playing a game without Steam doing its initial call-home-and-update dance.This only applies to multiplayer-only games with only Xbox Live support and no LAN play, are there any?
And of course, the online functionality of any Xbox Live-only (no LAN support) games.
Now THAT category is very large.
If what you cared about was playing those games into infinity, though, you should never have bought them on the Xbox.Perhaps this will lead to some new Xbox Live replacement hacks, although without the server code, it won't do much good except in the case of games where the player machine is the server, and Xbox Live only provides matching.
If you love your games, you need to sniff and log some sample traffic now so that you can provide the data to someone who is interested in taking on this challenge.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038676</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>rrohbeck</author>
	<datestamp>1265361120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.</p></div><p>High tech masochism?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft can and Microsoft shall , that 's the price for being at their hands .
The reward ?
To get to use their products.High tech masochism ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands.
The reward?
To get to use their products.High tech masochism?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038606</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265360880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If hardly anyone's using it, how much does it cost them to keep the system on?<br>If a substantial number of people <i>are</i> using it.... why should they discontinue support for it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If hardly anyone 's using it , how much does it cost them to keep the system on ? If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If hardly anyone's using it, how much does it cost them to keep the system on?If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038584</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265360820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I loved the original Day of Defeat mod, I had many great moments with it and fun favorite servers. Then at some point the patches balanced things I didn't like and new features that I didn't like were added. Then came DoD:Source and players moved. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new games. I had my fun times already.</p><p>I loved my old girlfriend, I had many great moments with her and good favorite restaurants. Then at some point things changed and new features that I didn't like were added. Then came new persons and we moved on. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new girls. I had my fun times already.</p><p>I loved the pizza I ate on Wednesday, I had many delicious moments with it and great tastes. Then at some point the pizza was eaten and new features (stomach being damn full) that I didn't like were added. Then came even better pizza and it replaced the old one. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new tastes. I had my fun times already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I loved the original Day of Defeat mod , I had many great moments with it and fun favorite servers .
Then at some point the patches balanced things I did n't like and new features that I did n't like were added .
Then came DoD : Source and players moved .
Does it really bother me that much ?
No , I just moved to new games .
I had my fun times already.I loved my old girlfriend , I had many great moments with her and good favorite restaurants .
Then at some point things changed and new features that I did n't like were added .
Then came new persons and we moved on .
Does it really bother me that much ?
No , I just moved to new girls .
I had my fun times already.I loved the pizza I ate on Wednesday , I had many delicious moments with it and great tastes .
Then at some point the pizza was eaten and new features ( stomach being damn full ) that I did n't like were added .
Then came even better pizza and it replaced the old one .
Does it really bother me that much ?
No , I just moved to new tastes .
I had my fun times already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I loved the original Day of Defeat mod, I had many great moments with it and fun favorite servers.
Then at some point the patches balanced things I didn't like and new features that I didn't like were added.
Then came DoD:Source and players moved.
Does it really bother me that much?
No, I just moved to new games.
I had my fun times already.I loved my old girlfriend, I had many great moments with her and good favorite restaurants.
Then at some point things changed and new features that I didn't like were added.
Then came new persons and we moved on.
Does it really bother me that much?
No, I just moved to new girls.
I had my fun times already.I loved the pizza I ate on Wednesday, I had many delicious moments with it and great tastes.
Then at some point the pizza was eaten and new features (stomach being damn full) that I didn't like were added.
Then came even better pizza and it replaced the old one.
Does it really bother me that much?
No, I just moved to new tastes.
I had my fun times already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039716</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>dissy</author>
	<datestamp>1265365860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...</p> </div><p>Sure we can.  And do.  And at least for PC games, one is far more likely to get their wish.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why.</p> </div><p>Totally not true.<br>It never HAS to do deprecated.  A 10 year old server for a 10 year old game will run just fine as long as you aren't stingy and try to do everything yourself poorly.</p><p>As long as I can have my own computer on the internet, I have all the abilities I need to run a game server, except for the game server software itself.<br>With PC games, you almost always can get this too.  Only with console games do you not.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.</p></div><p>The article disagrees.  Clearly the reward is NOT being able to use their products (or at least not after April 15th)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever... Sure we can .
And do .
And at least for PC games , one is far more likely to get their wish.Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated , no matter when , no matter how , no matter why .
Totally not true.It never HAS to do deprecated .
A 10 year old server for a 10 year old game will run just fine as long as you are n't stingy and try to do everything yourself poorly.As long as I can have my own computer on the internet , I have all the abilities I need to run a game server , except for the game server software itself.With PC games , you almost always can get this too .
Only with console games do you not.Microsoft can and Microsoft shall , that 's the price for being at their hands .
The reward ?
To get to use their products.The article disagrees .
Clearly the reward is NOT being able to use their products ( or at least not after April 15th )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever... Sure we can.
And do.
And at least for PC games, one is far more likely to get their wish.Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why.
Totally not true.It never HAS to do deprecated.
A 10 year old server for a 10 year old game will run just fine as long as you aren't stingy and try to do everything yourself poorly.As long as I can have my own computer on the internet, I have all the abilities I need to run a game server, except for the game server software itself.With PC games, you almost always can get this too.
Only with console games do you not.Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands.
The reward?
To get to use their products.The article disagrees.
Clearly the reward is NOT being able to use their products (or at least not after April 15th)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038762</id>
	<title>XLink Kai</title>
	<author>Aphex Junkie</author>
	<datestamp>1265361420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get XLink Kai, problem solved!<br>
Supports original Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, PSP, and Gamecube.<br>
<br>
It's free to use, and the source code is freely available:
<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLink\_Kai" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLink\_Kai</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get XLink Kai , problem solved !
Supports original Xbox , Xbox 360 , PS2 , PS3 , PSP , and Gamecube .
It 's free to use , and the source code is freely available : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLink \ _Kai [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get XLink Kai, problem solved!
Supports original Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, PSP, and Gamecube.
It's free to use, and the source code is freely available:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLink\_Kai [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038750</id>
	<title>Replayability and licensing</title>
	<author>zero\_out</author>
	<datestamp>1265361420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an avid gamer, I hate the way modern games are moving away from the old model of pay once, play forever, and moving toward licensing.  It may not be called licensing by the producers, but that's exactly what it is.  How many of us still enjoy a nostalgic game of Donkey Kong, or Super Mario Bros.?  I'm sure there is still a group of gamers out there who enjoy a multiplayer game of Quake or Command and Conquer.</p><p>Ten years from now, a few friends would like to play a game of Halo 2, but they won't be able to.  Just last year, I sank a good 30 hours into the original Sid Mier's(sp?) Colonization, like I have been doing since 1996.  I don't know the details about Xbox Live, or Halo 2, but if the game requires a centralized Live server for multiplayer functionality, then it simply won't work.  In effect, you are only licensing a portion of the game for a certain period of time.  Sure, you can code your own server from scratch, like the Star Wars Galaxies fans have done, but that still eliminates 90\% of the fans who will one day want to replay the game that they loved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an avid gamer , I hate the way modern games are moving away from the old model of pay once , play forever , and moving toward licensing .
It may not be called licensing by the producers , but that 's exactly what it is .
How many of us still enjoy a nostalgic game of Donkey Kong , or Super Mario Bros. ?
I 'm sure there is still a group of gamers out there who enjoy a multiplayer game of Quake or Command and Conquer.Ten years from now , a few friends would like to play a game of Halo 2 , but they wo n't be able to .
Just last year , I sank a good 30 hours into the original Sid Mier 's ( sp ?
) Colonization , like I have been doing since 1996 .
I do n't know the details about Xbox Live , or Halo 2 , but if the game requires a centralized Live server for multiplayer functionality , then it simply wo n't work .
In effect , you are only licensing a portion of the game for a certain period of time .
Sure , you can code your own server from scratch , like the Star Wars Galaxies fans have done , but that still eliminates 90 \ % of the fans who will one day want to replay the game that they loved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an avid gamer, I hate the way modern games are moving away from the old model of pay once, play forever, and moving toward licensing.
It may not be called licensing by the producers, but that's exactly what it is.
How many of us still enjoy a nostalgic game of Donkey Kong, or Super Mario Bros.?
I'm sure there is still a group of gamers out there who enjoy a multiplayer game of Quake or Command and Conquer.Ten years from now, a few friends would like to play a game of Halo 2, but they won't be able to.
Just last year, I sank a good 30 hours into the original Sid Mier's(sp?
) Colonization, like I have been doing since 1996.
I don't know the details about Xbox Live, or Halo 2, but if the game requires a centralized Live server for multiplayer functionality, then it simply won't work.
In effect, you are only licensing a portion of the game for a certain period of time.
Sure, you can code your own server from scratch, like the Star Wars Galaxies fans have done, but that still eliminates 90\% of the fans who will one day want to replay the game that they loved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042228</id>
	<title>Why? There are still servers for PS2 games up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265381520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the oldest PS2 online games, the original 2002 vintage SOCOM, still has it's servers up.  As do the other PS2 SOCOM games.  Everquest Online Adventures, the PS2 MMORPG released in 2003, is also still up.  As of last year, the Champions of Norrath (both games) servers were still up.  Final Fantasy XI is still going.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the oldest PS2 online games , the original 2002 vintage SOCOM , still has it 's servers up .
As do the other PS2 SOCOM games .
Everquest Online Adventures , the PS2 MMORPG released in 2003 , is also still up .
As of last year , the Champions of Norrath ( both games ) servers were still up .
Final Fantasy XI is still going .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the oldest PS2 online games, the original 2002 vintage SOCOM, still has it's servers up.
As do the other PS2 SOCOM games.
Everquest Online Adventures, the PS2 MMORPG released in 2003, is also still up.
As of last year, the Champions of Norrath (both games) servers were still up.
Final Fantasy XI is still going.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038786</id>
	<title>HA HA HA Serves you suckers right!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265361540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just another reason to buy a computer.</p><p>I will admit I too had an Xbox. I long ago let the subscription expire. At one point I had to make the decision: Buy a new console (likely the 360) or spend more and get a new computer. I am 100\% glad I sent it on a new computer.</p><p>It was just last week that Sony announced that "hey guess what? Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free, well not anymore suckas!".</p><p>Now MS is saying they are shutting down service for old hardware, making many games pretty useless (as they were sold as online games with limited single player options).</p><p>That's the problem with consoles, they (MS and Sony, and Nintendo) own everything. They can do whatever they please. Don't like it? Too bad. Your option is to buy the other guys console, who is going to screw you just as much.</p><p>So buy or upgrade your computer where you can actually own your own stuff, and join in the big boy games.</p><p>Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!) and generally being asshats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just another reason to buy a computer.I will admit I too had an Xbox .
I long ago let the subscription expire .
At one point I had to make the decision : Buy a new console ( likely the 360 ) or spend more and get a new computer .
I am 100 \ % glad I sent it on a new computer.It was just last week that Sony announced that " hey guess what ?
Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free , well not anymore suckas !
" .Now MS is saying they are shutting down service for old hardware , making many games pretty useless ( as they were sold as online games with limited single player options ) .That 's the problem with consoles , they ( MS and Sony , and Nintendo ) own everything .
They can do whatever they please .
Do n't like it ?
Too bad .
Your option is to buy the other guys console , who is going to screw you just as much.So buy or upgrade your computer where you can actually own your own stuff , and join in the big boy games.Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you ( notice I only said less , you can only do so much !
) and generally being asshats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just another reason to buy a computer.I will admit I too had an Xbox.
I long ago let the subscription expire.
At one point I had to make the decision: Buy a new console (likely the 360) or spend more and get a new computer.
I am 100\% glad I sent it on a new computer.It was just last week that Sony announced that "hey guess what?
Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free, well not anymore suckas!
".Now MS is saying they are shutting down service for old hardware, making many games pretty useless (as they were sold as online games with limited single player options).That's the problem with consoles, they (MS and Sony, and Nintendo) own everything.
They can do whatever they please.
Don't like it?
Too bad.
Your option is to buy the other guys console, who is going to screw you just as much.So buy or upgrade your computer where you can actually own your own stuff, and join in the big boy games.Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!
) and generally being asshats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041674</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265377200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever [...] Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.</p></div><p>This is just a reaction test to gauge the audience for a much larger community. I'm talking about Windows XP users who must ACTIVATE their install legally when going through yearly spring cleaning or disaster recovery reinstalls. We all complained when Vista came out, and still cling to it, but unlike with those Windows NT, Windows 98 and Windows 2000 boxes that we still see out there in countless small businesses and homes, MS can finally refuse activation and force the client to purchase a new version. My problem is not the fact that old OS's become insecure and a liability to their owners and businesses, but the fact that you'll leave lots of computers in reduced / unusable mode even if they were meant to sit around as a dedicated internal file server or whatever</p><p>Those users *purchased* XP at $200+ dollars --didn't hacked it. That allone will give them a feeling of entitlement to perpetual service, because the home user or small business user does not understand licensing and activation / deactivation, especially when a "no reactivation" date was never published so they could account for it. OEM laptops and PC's, and legal business use volume keys and their PC's don't actually need a web connection or phonecall to reactivate based solely on their serial number. Their IT departments will take care of reinstalls and upgrades to Vista / Windows 7 / Windows 8 for them.</p><p>I can imagine the XP users phoning the MS # as usual to get the reactivation key, only to be told that they need to go out and pay for a new version. I can see angry forum posts and blogs saying how their online activation brings them to an upgrade page, and that even if they wanted to pay for a new windows version, the upgrade advisor finds their hardware too old, since it was designed without even Vista specs in mind. MS just wants to see how 25 million users react to having the plug pulled, and do some math to see how they adjust their plans for a the silent Windows XP death and beginning of a control model they've been craving for a whole decade.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We ca n't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever [ ... ] Microsoft can and Microsoft shall , that 's the price for being at their hands .
The reward ?
To get to use their products.This is just a reaction test to gauge the audience for a much larger community .
I 'm talking about Windows XP users who must ACTIVATE their install legally when going through yearly spring cleaning or disaster recovery reinstalls .
We all complained when Vista came out , and still cling to it , but unlike with those Windows NT , Windows 98 and Windows 2000 boxes that we still see out there in countless small businesses and homes , MS can finally refuse activation and force the client to purchase a new version .
My problem is not the fact that old OS 's become insecure and a liability to their owners and businesses , but the fact that you 'll leave lots of computers in reduced / unusable mode even if they were meant to sit around as a dedicated internal file server or whateverThose users * purchased * XP at $ 200 + dollars --did n't hacked it .
That allone will give them a feeling of entitlement to perpetual service , because the home user or small business user does not understand licensing and activation / deactivation , especially when a " no reactivation " date was never published so they could account for it .
OEM laptops and PC 's , and legal business use volume keys and their PC 's do n't actually need a web connection or phonecall to reactivate based solely on their serial number .
Their IT departments will take care of reinstalls and upgrades to Vista / Windows 7 / Windows 8 for them.I can imagine the XP users phoning the MS # as usual to get the reactivation key , only to be told that they need to go out and pay for a new version .
I can see angry forum posts and blogs saying how their online activation brings them to an upgrade page , and that even if they wanted to pay for a new windows version , the upgrade advisor finds their hardware too old , since it was designed without even Vista specs in mind .
MS just wants to see how 25 million users react to having the plug pulled , and do some math to see how they adjust their plans for a the silent Windows XP death and beginning of a control model they 've been craving for a whole decade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever [...] Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands.
The reward?
To get to use their products.This is just a reaction test to gauge the audience for a much larger community.
I'm talking about Windows XP users who must ACTIVATE their install legally when going through yearly spring cleaning or disaster recovery reinstalls.
We all complained when Vista came out, and still cling to it, but unlike with those Windows NT, Windows 98 and Windows 2000 boxes that we still see out there in countless small businesses and homes, MS can finally refuse activation and force the client to purchase a new version.
My problem is not the fact that old OS's become insecure and a liability to their owners and businesses, but the fact that you'll leave lots of computers in reduced / unusable mode even if they were meant to sit around as a dedicated internal file server or whateverThose users *purchased* XP at $200+ dollars --didn't hacked it.
That allone will give them a feeling of entitlement to perpetual service, because the home user or small business user does not understand licensing and activation / deactivation, especially when a "no reactivation" date was never published so they could account for it.
OEM laptops and PC's, and legal business use volume keys and their PC's don't actually need a web connection or phonecall to reactivate based solely on their serial number.
Their IT departments will take care of reinstalls and upgrades to Vista / Windows 7 / Windows 8 for them.I can imagine the XP users phoning the MS # as usual to get the reactivation key, only to be told that they need to go out and pay for a new version.
I can see angry forum posts and blogs saying how their online activation brings them to an upgrade page, and that even if they wanted to pay for a new windows version, the upgrade advisor finds their hardware too old, since it was designed without even Vista specs in mind.
MS just wants to see how 25 million users react to having the plug pulled, and do some math to see how they adjust their plans for a the silent Windows XP death and beginning of a control model they've been craving for a whole decade.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039450</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1265364660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly.  And this also why I look at people who hate Blizzard a little funny.  How long have they been running their servers for their customers?  I guess a counter point to myself, though, is if they did shut down, it would sure be nice to have private servers so people could still play.  But as long as they still support it, I will stay impressed.  If/when they finally do shut down, I am sure someone won't have too much trouble writing bnetd 2.0.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
And this also why I look at people who hate Blizzard a little funny .
How long have they been running their servers for their customers ?
I guess a counter point to myself , though , is if they did shut down , it would sure be nice to have private servers so people could still play .
But as long as they still support it , I will stay impressed .
If/when they finally do shut down , I am sure someone wo n't have too much trouble writing bnetd 2.0 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
And this also why I look at people who hate Blizzard a little funny.
How long have they been running their servers for their customers?
I guess a counter point to myself, though, is if they did shut down, it would sure be nice to have private servers so people could still play.
But as long as they still support it, I will stay impressed.
If/when they finally do shut down, I am sure someone won't have too much trouble writing bnetd 2.0.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042066</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Ihmhi</author>
	<datestamp>1265380260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I <em>still</em> play TRIBES, and the official master server has been shut down for years now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I still play TRIBES , and the official master server has been shut down for years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still play TRIBES, and the official master server has been shut down for years now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041956</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>chilvence</author>
	<datestamp>1265379420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are just being unreasonably pedantic. What I was illustrating was the difference between something decentralised and largely independant, and another thing that is completely in thrall of a large corporate entity and its whims.</p><p>And to answer your second point, google odamex, skulltag, zdaemon - all client server upgrades to the venerable Doom. I'm sure there are more since it is open source, but those are the ones I know. I grant you these open source upgrades were not available in 1993, but the internet didn't even exist in most peoples heads back then either, and in fact their very existance proves how allowing independant modification can preserve something indefinitely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are just being unreasonably pedantic .
What I was illustrating was the difference between something decentralised and largely independant , and another thing that is completely in thrall of a large corporate entity and its whims.And to answer your second point , google odamex , skulltag , zdaemon - all client server upgrades to the venerable Doom .
I 'm sure there are more since it is open source , but those are the ones I know .
I grant you these open source upgrades were not available in 1993 , but the internet did n't even exist in most peoples heads back then either , and in fact their very existance proves how allowing independant modification can preserve something indefinitely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are just being unreasonably pedantic.
What I was illustrating was the difference between something decentralised and largely independant, and another thing that is completely in thrall of a large corporate entity and its whims.And to answer your second point, google odamex, skulltag, zdaemon - all client server upgrades to the venerable Doom.
I'm sure there are more since it is open source, but those are the ones I know.
I grant you these open source upgrades were not available in 1993, but the internet didn't even exist in most peoples heads back then either, and in fact their very existance proves how allowing independant modification can preserve something indefinitely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038692</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265361180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Subspace still peaks near 1000 players. It's been going 13 years, and was long ago completely abandoned by the company that created it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Subspace still peaks near 1000 players .
It 's been going 13 years , and was long ago completely abandoned by the company that created it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Subspace still peaks near 1000 players.
It's been going 13 years, and was long ago completely abandoned by the company that created it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038440</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>grapeape</author>
	<datestamp>1265403360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well your options are kind of limited, Sony threw out backwards compatabilty completely with the slim, none of the current models of PS3 sold have backwards compatability or even the "other OS" option.</p><p>Nintendo dropped online support for the few gamecube games that supported online back in 07.</p><p>That leaves...PC gaming I guess? Well unless you have certain EA titles or Capcom tiles or certain MMO's, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well your options are kind of limited , Sony threw out backwards compatabilty completely with the slim , none of the current models of PS3 sold have backwards compatability or even the " other OS " option.Nintendo dropped online support for the few gamecube games that supported online back in 07.That leaves...PC gaming I guess ?
Well unless you have certain EA titles or Capcom tiles or certain MMO 's , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well your options are kind of limited, Sony threw out backwards compatabilty completely with the slim, none of the current models of PS3 sold have backwards compatability or even the "other OS" option.Nintendo dropped online support for the few gamecube games that supported online back in 07.That leaves...PC gaming I guess?
Well unless you have certain EA titles or Capcom tiles or certain MMO's, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045140</id>
	<title>It's worse than that</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1265467200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And, in fact, it wouldn't even be so depressing if that was all they were proposing.  But the 360 supports original Xbox games and that influenced people who had a back catalogue of existing games.  Now those people will have a load of games they can't play online, accompanied by a console that is harder to mod to use alternate services.</p><p>I wouldn't be at all surprised if we start seeing ports of original XBox games, updated to use the new Live multiplayer systems, being sold as DLC so you can't resell it.  That way they can sell you your old games again so you can buy back functionality.  Maybe I'm being over cynical<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... nah.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And , in fact , it would n't even be so depressing if that was all they were proposing .
But the 360 supports original Xbox games and that influenced people who had a back catalogue of existing games .
Now those people will have a load of games they ca n't play online , accompanied by a console that is harder to mod to use alternate services.I would n't be at all surprised if we start seeing ports of original XBox games , updated to use the new Live multiplayer systems , being sold as DLC so you ca n't resell it .
That way they can sell you your old games again so you can buy back functionality .
Maybe I 'm being over cynical ... nah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And, in fact, it wouldn't even be so depressing if that was all they were proposing.
But the 360 supports original Xbox games and that influenced people who had a back catalogue of existing games.
Now those people will have a load of games they can't play online, accompanied by a console that is harder to mod to use alternate services.I wouldn't be at all surprised if we start seeing ports of original XBox games, updated to use the new Live multiplayer systems, being sold as DLC so you can't resell it.
That way they can sell you your old games again so you can buy back functionality.
Maybe I'm being over cynical ... nah.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040552</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>Whatsmynickname</author>
	<datestamp>1265369880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is not the issue of if a game has reached some "end of a run" or not.  The issue is if someone else comes along and says "this network game is over for you".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is not the issue of if a game has reached some " end of a run " or not .
The issue is if someone else comes along and says " this network game is over for you " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is not the issue of if a game has reached some "end of a run" or not.
The issue is if someone else comes along and says "this network game is over for you".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040880</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>floatednerd</author>
	<datestamp>1265371740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I usually play Doom online via <a href="http://www.zdaemon.org/" title="zdaemon.org" rel="nofollow">ZDaemon</a> [zdaemon.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>I usually play Doom online via ZDaemon [ zdaemon.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I usually play Doom online via ZDaemon [zdaemon.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039822</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>DaFallus</author>
	<datestamp>1265366340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not trying to disagree with you, but usually any Xbox game that has a LAN multiplayer option can be fooled using XBconnect or some other tunneling software. This is how we were able to play the original Halo online before Halo 2 was released. So, perhaps not all hope is completely lost.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not trying to disagree with you , but usually any Xbox game that has a LAN multiplayer option can be fooled using XBconnect or some other tunneling software .
This is how we were able to play the original Halo online before Halo 2 was released .
So , perhaps not all hope is completely lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not trying to disagree with you, but usually any Xbox game that has a LAN multiplayer option can be fooled using XBconnect or some other tunneling software.
This is how we were able to play the original Halo online before Halo 2 was released.
So, perhaps not all hope is completely lost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039768</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265366160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But with XBox Live they are getting paid to keep the servers running.  it's subscription driven it doesn't make sense to kill it, unless there the subscription numbers are so low that it really is a non issue anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But with XBox Live they are getting paid to keep the servers running .
it 's subscription driven it does n't make sense to kill it , unless there the subscription numbers are so low that it really is a non issue anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But with XBox Live they are getting paid to keep the servers running.
it's subscription driven it doesn't make sense to kill it, unless there the subscription numbers are so low that it really is a non issue anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31044284</id>
	<title>Re:Thisis a GREAT thing..</title>
	<author>Drewcool</author>
	<datestamp>1265452980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least for games that support LAN play, there is <a href="http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/" title="teamxlink.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/</a> [teamxlink.co.uk] .</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least for games that support LAN play , there is http : //www.teamxlink.co.uk/ [ teamxlink.co.uk ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least for games that support LAN play, there is http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/ [teamxlink.co.uk] .</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040322</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1265368620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Which would be fine if games included the option to play online outside of XBL too as they should.
<br> <br>
It's not like Xbox live is being shut down or that people don't pay to use it. It's because as far as publishers are concerned playing old games is just as bad as buying used games because it means you're not buying new games and MS is not going to encourage that.
<br> <br>
Just like EA killing off online play for sports games more or less as soon as the next version is out, it's pure greed and nothing else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which would be fine if games included the option to play online outside of XBL too as they should .
It 's not like Xbox live is being shut down or that people do n't pay to use it .
It 's because as far as publishers are concerned playing old games is just as bad as buying used games because it means you 're not buying new games and MS is not going to encourage that .
Just like EA killing off online play for sports games more or less as soon as the next version is out , it 's pure greed and nothing else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which would be fine if games included the option to play online outside of XBL too as they should.
It's not like Xbox live is being shut down or that people don't pay to use it.
It's because as far as publishers are concerned playing old games is just as bad as buying used games because it means you're not buying new games and MS is not going to encourage that.
Just like EA killing off online play for sports games more or less as soon as the next version is out, it's pure greed and nothing else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042450</id>
	<title>Re:Take it a step further</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1265383140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess I am not clear on their motive here.  I can't see allowing users to play older games on Live being much of a cost at all.  They aren't constantly releasing updates or anything for older games.  I'm guessing that there aren't THAT many people playing the older games so it shouldn't be a capacity problem.  Perhaps they are counting on selling more new games by cutting off the old ones? </p><p> I'm thinking the only people that it is really a big deal are those who like Halo 1 or Halo 2 and hate Halo 3 and other shooters.  Those people are probably few in number but if you take away the reason they have a Live Account, they would probably cancel it.</p><p>Overall, I simply don't understand how this could matter enough to be a money saver for them.  Then again, I don't really know what the gaming landscape on Live looks like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess I am not clear on their motive here .
I ca n't see allowing users to play older games on Live being much of a cost at all .
They are n't constantly releasing updates or anything for older games .
I 'm guessing that there are n't THAT many people playing the older games so it should n't be a capacity problem .
Perhaps they are counting on selling more new games by cutting off the old ones ?
I 'm thinking the only people that it is really a big deal are those who like Halo 1 or Halo 2 and hate Halo 3 and other shooters .
Those people are probably few in number but if you take away the reason they have a Live Account , they would probably cancel it.Overall , I simply do n't understand how this could matter enough to be a money saver for them .
Then again , I do n't really know what the gaming landscape on Live looks like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess I am not clear on their motive here.
I can't see allowing users to play older games on Live being much of a cost at all.
They aren't constantly releasing updates or anything for older games.
I'm guessing that there aren't THAT many people playing the older games so it shouldn't be a capacity problem.
Perhaps they are counting on selling more new games by cutting off the old ones?
I'm thinking the only people that it is really a big deal are those who like Halo 1 or Halo 2 and hate Halo 3 and other shooters.
Those people are probably few in number but if you take away the reason they have a Live Account, they would probably cancel it.Overall, I simply don't understand how this could matter enough to be a money saver for them.
Then again, I don't really know what the gaming landscape on Live looks like.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31050090</id>
	<title>Tunneling programs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265473920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who cares if xbox live for the orginal xbox will be over? Never needed it before to play with people online. Just grab Xlink Kai or XBConnect and install it on your computer. They basically tunnel the system link multiplayer option over the internet. Any game with system link like halo or farcry will work just fine playing online.<br>Xbox Live won't be missed, it will be replaced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares if xbox live for the orginal xbox will be over ?
Never needed it before to play with people online .
Just grab Xlink Kai or XBConnect and install it on your computer .
They basically tunnel the system link multiplayer option over the internet .
Any game with system link like halo or farcry will work just fine playing online.Xbox Live wo n't be missed , it will be replaced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares if xbox live for the orginal xbox will be over?
Never needed it before to play with people online.
Just grab Xlink Kai or XBConnect and install it on your computer.
They basically tunnel the system link multiplayer option over the internet.
Any game with system link like halo or farcry will work just fine playing online.Xbox Live won't be missed, it will be replaced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038500</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1265360400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>You wouldn't have this problem on PC,</i></p><p>Sure you would. Try playing Tabula Rasa online right now, that's a PC game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You would n't have this problem on PC,Sure you would .
Try playing Tabula Rasa online right now , that 's a PC game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You wouldn't have this problem on PC,Sure you would.
Try playing Tabula Rasa online right now, that's a PC game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038386</id>
	<title>Is anyone surprised?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265403120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No service lasts forever, and this is why buying a product with a required on-line component is a bad idea.</p><p>How many times do people need to be taught this lesson before it sticks?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No service lasts forever , and this is why buying a product with a required on-line component is a bad idea.How many times do people need to be taught this lesson before it sticks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No service lasts forever, and this is why buying a product with a required on-line component is a bad idea.How many times do people need to be taught this lesson before it sticks?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039136</id>
	<title>Ha ha.</title>
	<author>Stumbles</author>
	<datestamp>1265363220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Microsoft needs you morons to buy new hardware and games... dey nedz da muny.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft needs you morons to buy new hardware and games... dey nedz da muny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft needs you morons to buy new hardware and games... dey nedz da muny.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038948</id>
	<title>Re:PC Gaming is coming back in style</title>
	<author>decipher\_saint</author>
	<datestamp>1265362440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...until Steam goes down or your EA key doesn't validate (etc, etc, etc). This is becoming endemic to electronic gaming as a whole not just console gaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...until Steam goes down or your EA key does n't validate ( etc , etc , etc ) .
This is becoming endemic to electronic gaming as a whole not just console gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...until Steam goes down or your EA key doesn't validate (etc, etc, etc).
This is becoming endemic to electronic gaming as a whole not just console gaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038992</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265362560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you for telling me about xboxconnect.  The last time I looked into this type of system, the only thing available was xlink kai (which I couldn't get to work for whatever reason).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for telling me about xboxconnect .
The last time I looked into this type of system , the only thing available was xlink kai ( which I could n't get to work for whatever reason ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for telling me about xboxconnect.
The last time I looked into this type of system, the only thing available was xlink kai (which I couldn't get to work for whatever reason).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31043976</id>
	<title>Be sure to drink your Ovaltine</title>
	<author>ndege</author>
	<datestamp>1265488800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, maybe they just decided that it is time for you to drink more Ovaltine.  (ie:  MS closes the old service out, planning that you will buy a new xbox)</p><p>For those of you that might not get the reference, here is a video clip that just came to mind: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdA\_\_2tKoIU" title="youtube.com">Secret circle - decoder ring scene from "A Christmas Story"</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , maybe they just decided that it is time for you to drink more Ovaltine .
( ie : MS closes the old service out , planning that you will buy a new xbox ) For those of you that might not get the reference , here is a video clip that just came to mind : Secret circle - decoder ring scene from " A Christmas Story " [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, maybe they just decided that it is time for you to drink more Ovaltine.
(ie:  MS closes the old service out, planning that you will buy a new xbox)For those of you that might not get the reference, here is a video clip that just came to mind: Secret circle - decoder ring scene from "A Christmas Story" [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040886</id>
	<title>My thoughts,,,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265371800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>5 years ago a v1 xbox cost about $125 out the door. A game such as Halo 2 cost $30. The next 4 years of xbox live cost me $200. Total investment is $355. I will guesstimate 5000 hours of entertainment from said investment. Investment per hour is $0.071 an hour. Pretty sure I got my money outta that. Not counting the other games I have. If most pc gamers keep a rig for 4 years, realisticly they aren't expected to play every game they can buy or have bought in the past. Honestly I am more surprised more of you are not commenting on the fact that a dead console was supported for so long.</htmltext>
<tokenext>5 years ago a v1 xbox cost about $ 125 out the door .
A game such as Halo 2 cost $ 30 .
The next 4 years of xbox live cost me $ 200 .
Total investment is $ 355 .
I will guesstimate 5000 hours of entertainment from said investment .
Investment per hour is $ 0.071 an hour .
Pretty sure I got my money outta that .
Not counting the other games I have .
If most pc gamers keep a rig for 4 years , realisticly they are n't expected to play every game they can buy or have bought in the past .
Honestly I am more surprised more of you are not commenting on the fact that a dead console was supported for so long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5 years ago a v1 xbox cost about $125 out the door.
A game such as Halo 2 cost $30.
The next 4 years of xbox live cost me $200.
Total investment is $355.
I will guesstimate 5000 hours of entertainment from said investment.
Investment per hour is $0.071 an hour.
Pretty sure I got my money outta that.
Not counting the other games I have.
If most pc gamers keep a rig for 4 years, realisticly they aren't expected to play every game they can buy or have bought in the past.
Honestly I am more surprised more of you are not commenting on the fact that a dead console was supported for so long.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038548</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Chyeld</author>
	<datestamp>1265360640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>However as the long and varied life of Half-Life (the original game) proved, it's not impossible to update an old game with new matching software as time goes on.</p><p>Additionally, and ironically in some respects, as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiance\_(video\_game)" title="wikipedia.org">Allegiance</a> [wikipedia.org], a game initially developed by Microsoft, shows it's possible for a PC game to survive well beyond when the company that supported it turns everything off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>However as the long and varied life of Half-Life ( the original game ) proved , it 's not impossible to update an old game with new matching software as time goes on.Additionally , and ironically in some respects , as Allegiance [ wikipedia.org ] , a game initially developed by Microsoft , shows it 's possible for a PC game to survive well beyond when the company that supported it turns everything off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However as the long and varied life of Half-Life (the original game) proved, it's not impossible to update an old game with new matching software as time goes on.Additionally, and ironically in some respects, as Allegiance [wikipedia.org], a game initially developed by Microsoft, shows it's possible for a PC game to survive well beyond when the company that supported it turns everything off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039690</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>MogNuts</author>
	<datestamp>1265365800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree. A couple months ago I busted out Final Fantasy IX for the Playstation 1. When I first bought it, I just didn't have the time. Now I do, and got around to it. Fired it up, had a blast. It's an incredible game. But it was released 10 years ago. So I'm not allowed to play it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
A couple months ago I busted out Final Fantasy IX for the Playstation 1 .
When I first bought it , I just did n't have the time .
Now I do , and got around to it .
Fired it up , had a blast .
It 's an incredible game .
But it was released 10 years ago .
So I 'm not allowed to play it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
A couple months ago I busted out Final Fantasy IX for the Playstation 1.
When I first bought it, I just didn't have the time.
Now I do, and got around to it.
Fired it up, had a blast.
It's an incredible game.
But it was released 10 years ago.
So I'm not allowed to play it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038444</id>
	<title>Take it a step further</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1265403360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker. That affects far more than just XBox Live. There's games that have mandatory online registration that wave the same sword of damocles above your head. They turn off the server, your game DVD becomes little more than a costy coaster. Same applies to games that only allow connections to the game servers of the makers (and I'm not talking MMOs here exclusively). And of course it affects all console gaming platforms IIRC.</p><p>If you support the system until they switch off support, you're not hurting them. Do you think they switch it off because they think "Hey, it's Friday, let's piss off our users"? They do it because it already is unprofitable to run the system. So whether you cancel or not doesn't mean jack. They have an expense of X to keep your platform supported, they have income of Y from users running these platforms, X is already bigger than Y, so they cut the cord. Yes, they will lose Y, but they gain X in turn. Does it take a MBA to figure it out that they win by turning it off?</p><p>If so, hand me my diploma<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>If you want to change that system, do not accept games and platforms that tie you for good or ill to the maker. Anything else won't send any message at all. That you'll cancel when your system is no longer supported is no message. That's a given.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker .
That affects far more than just XBox Live .
There 's games that have mandatory online registration that wave the same sword of damocles above your head .
They turn off the server , your game DVD becomes little more than a costy coaster .
Same applies to games that only allow connections to the game servers of the makers ( and I 'm not talking MMOs here exclusively ) .
And of course it affects all console gaming platforms IIRC.If you support the system until they switch off support , you 're not hurting them .
Do you think they switch it off because they think " Hey , it 's Friday , let 's piss off our users " ?
They do it because it already is unprofitable to run the system .
So whether you cancel or not does n't mean jack .
They have an expense of X to keep your platform supported , they have income of Y from users running these platforms , X is already bigger than Y , so they cut the cord .
Yes , they will lose Y , but they gain X in turn .
Does it take a MBA to figure it out that they win by turning it off ? If so , hand me my diploma : ) If you want to change that system , do not accept games and platforms that tie you for good or ill to the maker .
Anything else wo n't send any message at all .
That you 'll cancel when your system is no longer supported is no message .
That 's a given .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker.
That affects far more than just XBox Live.
There's games that have mandatory online registration that wave the same sword of damocles above your head.
They turn off the server, your game DVD becomes little more than a costy coaster.
Same applies to games that only allow connections to the game servers of the makers (and I'm not talking MMOs here exclusively).
And of course it affects all console gaming platforms IIRC.If you support the system until they switch off support, you're not hurting them.
Do you think they switch it off because they think "Hey, it's Friday, let's piss off our users"?
They do it because it already is unprofitable to run the system.
So whether you cancel or not doesn't mean jack.
They have an expense of X to keep your platform supported, they have income of Y from users running these platforms, X is already bigger than Y, so they cut the cord.
Yes, they will lose Y, but they gain X in turn.
Does it take a MBA to figure it out that they win by turning it off?If so, hand me my diploma :)If you want to change that system, do not accept games and platforms that tie you for good or ill to the maker.
Anything else won't send any message at all.
That you'll cancel when your system is no longer supported is no message.
That's a given.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039338</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>VGPowerlord</author>
	<datestamp>1265364120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet there are still servers for the 10+-year old Counter-Strike.</p><p>In fact, Counter-Strike (classic, not Source) is still one of the top played games on Steam.  In the top two, no less.  The other game in the top two?  Conter-Strike: Source.  And Team Fortress 2 places a distant third.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet there are still servers for the 10 + -year old Counter-Strike.In fact , Counter-Strike ( classic , not Source ) is still one of the top played games on Steam .
In the top two , no less .
The other game in the top two ?
Conter-Strike : Source .
And Team Fortress 2 places a distant third .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet there are still servers for the 10+-year old Counter-Strike.In fact, Counter-Strike (classic, not Source) is still one of the top played games on Steam.
In the top two, no less.
The other game in the top two?
Conter-Strike: Source.
And Team Fortress 2 places a distant third.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045800</id>
	<title>Re:In order to serve you better...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265474640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is actually a good reason to do this.  Many features of XBox Live, which is a shared service between the XBox and XBox 360, are held back by legacy support for the XBox.  The 100 friend limit is the most well known example of this, but there are others.  Removing the legacy support will allow Microsoft to make positive changes to the Live service.</p><p>And lets be clear, not many people use XBox Live for XBox games any more.  As a quick estimate, compare the number of players between Halo 2 (by far the most popular XBox Live XBox game) and Halo 3 (not even currently the most popular XBbox 360 game) in the last 24 hours.  Halo 2: 4,505 unique players.  Halo 3: 629,211 unique players.</p><p>They are choosing to stop servicing less than 1\% of the Live subscriber base in order to serve the other 99\% better.  I'll take that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is actually a good reason to do this .
Many features of XBox Live , which is a shared service between the XBox and XBox 360 , are held back by legacy support for the XBox .
The 100 friend limit is the most well known example of this , but there are others .
Removing the legacy support will allow Microsoft to make positive changes to the Live service.And lets be clear , not many people use XBox Live for XBox games any more .
As a quick estimate , compare the number of players between Halo 2 ( by far the most popular XBox Live XBox game ) and Halo 3 ( not even currently the most popular XBbox 360 game ) in the last 24 hours .
Halo 2 : 4,505 unique players .
Halo 3 : 629,211 unique players.They are choosing to stop servicing less than 1 \ % of the Live subscriber base in order to serve the other 99 \ % better .
I 'll take that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is actually a good reason to do this.
Many features of XBox Live, which is a shared service between the XBox and XBox 360, are held back by legacy support for the XBox.
The 100 friend limit is the most well known example of this, but there are others.
Removing the legacy support will allow Microsoft to make positive changes to the Live service.And lets be clear, not many people use XBox Live for XBox games any more.
As a quick estimate, compare the number of players between Halo 2 (by far the most popular XBox Live XBox game) and Halo 3 (not even currently the most popular XBbox 360 game) in the last 24 hours.
Halo 2: 4,505 unique players.
Halo 3: 629,211 unique players.They are choosing to stop servicing less than 1\% of the Live subscriber base in order to serve the other 99\% better.
I'll take that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31044018</id>
	<title>Re:Already a trend</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265489880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Developers don't need to learn.  People buy their games, they get paid.</p><p>You argument is actually contrary to what the developers want:  You're playing old games = You're not buying new ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Developers do n't need to learn .
People buy their games , they get paid.You argument is actually contrary to what the developers want : You 're playing old games = You 're not buying new ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Developers don't need to learn.
People buy their games, they get paid.You argument is actually contrary to what the developers want:  You're playing old games = You're not buying new ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045738</id>
	<title>Goodbye Live - Welcome Modz</title>
	<author>bjoeg</author>
	<datestamp>1265474100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Goodbye to Xbox live.
<br>And for those still loyal to Microsoft's services, we welcome you to the world of modding a Xbox and joining players on Xlink KAI.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Goodbye to Xbox live .
And for those still loyal to Microsoft 's services , we welcome you to the world of modding a Xbox and joining players on Xlink KAI .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Goodbye to Xbox live.
And for those still loyal to Microsoft's services, we welcome you to the world of modding a Xbox and joining players on Xlink KAI.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040964</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265372340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to pay for the online service. I wonder if there will be another player who will take over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to pay for the online service .
I wonder if there will be another player who will take over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to pay for the online service.
I wonder if there will be another player who will take over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040668</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>flyneye</author>
	<datestamp>1265370420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, you can still use the old Xbox to run Dynebolic www.dyne.org  .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , you can still use the old Xbox to run Dynebolic www.dyne.org .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, you can still use the old Xbox to run Dynebolic www.dyne.org  .</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</id>
	<title>Punish Them</title>
	<author>Concern</author>
	<datestamp>1265402880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to know what the cost is for buying games from companies that control their platform this tightly, now you get to see it.</p><p>If it bothers you, you have one option. Cancel your xbox live subs. Ebay your xbox. Buy your games on a different platform.</p><p>They didn't even set out to screw you over and make the games you (thought you) paid for (largely) worthless. You just gave them so much power that they <i>practically did it by accident.</i></p><p>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).</p><p>Yeah, I know - what is one slashdot post going to do to stop the console juggernaut? Answer: nothing. But don't say I didn't warn you. Give a thought at least to patronizing developers who make and sell their games the old-fashioned way. Especially the ones who support open standards and open platforms like opengl and linux - there are a few.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to know what the cost is for buying games from companies that control their platform this tightly , now you get to see it.If it bothers you , you have one option .
Cancel your xbox live subs .
Ebay your xbox .
Buy your games on a different platform.They did n't even set out to screw you over and make the games you ( thought you ) paid for ( largely ) worthless .
You just gave them so much power that they practically did it by accident.The answer is the PC games model we already had , where the platform is open and the infrastructure is n't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life ( xbox live ) .Yeah , I know - what is one slashdot post going to do to stop the console juggernaut ?
Answer : nothing .
But do n't say I did n't warn you .
Give a thought at least to patronizing developers who make and sell their games the old-fashioned way .
Especially the ones who support open standards and open platforms like opengl and linux - there are a few .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to know what the cost is for buying games from companies that control their platform this tightly, now you get to see it.If it bothers you, you have one option.
Cancel your xbox live subs.
Ebay your xbox.
Buy your games on a different platform.They didn't even set out to screw you over and make the games you (thought you) paid for (largely) worthless.
You just gave them so much power that they practically did it by accident.The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).Yeah, I know - what is one slashdot post going to do to stop the console juggernaut?
Answer: nothing.
But don't say I didn't warn you.
Give a thought at least to patronizing developers who make and sell their games the old-fashioned way.
Especially the ones who support open standards and open platforms like opengl and linux - there are a few.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039470</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>BenoitRen</author>
	<datestamp>1265364780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).</p></div> </blockquote><p>Wrong. The hardware configuration is open, but that's it. The specs of most hardware isn't open. Windows is not open. Most PC games aren't open either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The answer is the PC games model we already had , where the platform is open and the infrastructure is n't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life ( xbox live ) .
Wrong. The hardware configuration is open , but that 's it .
The specs of most hardware is n't open .
Windows is not open .
Most PC games are n't open either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).
Wrong. The hardware configuration is open, but that's it.
The specs of most hardware isn't open.
Windows is not open.
Most PC games aren't open either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038818</id>
	<title>Makes sense to me.</title>
	<author>ironicsky</author>
	<datestamp>1265361720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Listen... xBox v1 has been around for almost 10 years. They stopped selling the thing 4 years ago. Look at any Microsoft support life cycle.</p><p>Windows 98<br>- Released June 1998<br>- Discontinued 2002<br>- Extended support ended 2006<br>---Total shelf life - 8 years</p><p>Windows ME<br>- Released December 2000<br>- Discontinued December 2003<br>- Extended support ended 2006<br>---Total shelf life - 6 years</p><p>Windows 2000<br>- Released March 2000<br>- Discontinued June 2005<br>- Extended support ends this summer<br>---Total shelf life - 10 years</p><p>Microsoft is right in line with their typical support life cycle for the xBox. Even though its a different product line, Microsoft is still Microsoft. They cannot support an aging product forever (even if by support I mean maintain a server for it)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Listen... xBox v1 has been around for almost 10 years .
They stopped selling the thing 4 years ago .
Look at any Microsoft support life cycle.Windows 98- Released June 1998- Discontinued 2002- Extended support ended 2006---Total shelf life - 8 yearsWindows ME- Released December 2000- Discontinued December 2003- Extended support ended 2006---Total shelf life - 6 yearsWindows 2000- Released March 2000- Discontinued June 2005- Extended support ends this summer---Total shelf life - 10 yearsMicrosoft is right in line with their typical support life cycle for the xBox .
Even though its a different product line , Microsoft is still Microsoft .
They can not support an aging product forever ( even if by support I mean maintain a server for it )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Listen... xBox v1 has been around for almost 10 years.
They stopped selling the thing 4 years ago.
Look at any Microsoft support life cycle.Windows 98- Released June 1998- Discontinued 2002- Extended support ended 2006---Total shelf life - 8 yearsWindows ME- Released December 2000- Discontinued December 2003- Extended support ended 2006---Total shelf life - 6 yearsWindows 2000- Released March 2000- Discontinued June 2005- Extended support ends this summer---Total shelf life - 10 yearsMicrosoft is right in line with their typical support life cycle for the xBox.
Even though its a different product line, Microsoft is still Microsoft.
They cannot support an aging product forever (even if by support I mean maintain a server for it)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039108</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265363160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you read that wrong...</p><p>XBox features, including the feature of using Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm would not exist without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.</p><p>If LIVE wasn't successful, they never would've added Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm integration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you read that wrong...XBox features , including the feature of using Netflix , Facebook , Twitter , and Last.fm would not exist without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.If LIVE was n't successful , they never would 've added Netflix , Facebook , Twitter , and Last.fm integration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you read that wrong...XBox features, including the feature of using Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm would not exist without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.If LIVE wasn't successful, they never would've added Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, and Last.fm integration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039518</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1265364960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Horrible analogy.  Fender couldn't do that even if they wanted to.  Consoles are a closed platform.  It makes PC gamers smile to see this so they can say "I told you so."  (I am both, so personally not saying it, just not surprised)  It's great that there are other options.  But not everyone is technically savvy enough to know how to do it...or even that they exist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Horrible analogy .
Fender could n't do that even if they wanted to .
Consoles are a closed platform .
It makes PC gamers smile to see this so they can say " I told you so .
" ( I am both , so personally not saying it , just not surprised ) It 's great that there are other options .
But not everyone is technically savvy enough to know how to do it...or even that they exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Horrible analogy.
Fender couldn't do that even if they wanted to.
Consoles are a closed platform.
It makes PC gamers smile to see this so they can say "I told you so.
"  (I am both, so personally not saying it, just not surprised)  It's great that there are other options.
But not everyone is technically savvy enough to know how to do it...or even that they exist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31040758</id>
	<title>Nothing to do with game age</title>
	<author>DesScorp</author>
	<datestamp>1265371080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Enemy Territory is over 7 years old now, and still has a strong following. On forums I constantly see comments about people coming back to ET because "newer games just aren't as fun". New maps are still being created, and older favorites are still being modded. ID seems to be on the ball with this idea. Look at what they did putting Quake 3 online. If a game has a following, don't kill it.</p><p>After EA's decision to terminate servers for a whole bunch of games... some of them fairly recent... and now Live pulling this stunt... I'm really wary about getting my son that Xbox 360 he's been wanting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Enemy Territory is over 7 years old now , and still has a strong following .
On forums I constantly see comments about people coming back to ET because " newer games just are n't as fun " .
New maps are still being created , and older favorites are still being modded .
ID seems to be on the ball with this idea .
Look at what they did putting Quake 3 online .
If a game has a following , do n't kill it.After EA 's decision to terminate servers for a whole bunch of games... some of them fairly recent... and now Live pulling this stunt... I 'm really wary about getting my son that Xbox 360 he 's been wanting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Enemy Territory is over 7 years old now, and still has a strong following.
On forums I constantly see comments about people coming back to ET because "newer games just aren't as fun".
New maps are still being created, and older favorites are still being modded.
ID seems to be on the ball with this idea.
Look at what they did putting Quake 3 online.
If a game has a following, don't kill it.After EA's decision to terminate servers for a whole bunch of games... some of them fairly recent... and now Live pulling this stunt... I'm really wary about getting my son that Xbox 360 he's been wanting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31141228</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266175320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet Battle.net, a free service from Blizzard is still running after 10+ years...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet Battle.net , a free service from Blizzard is still running after 10 + years.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet Battle.net, a free service from Blizzard is still running after 10+ years...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041716</id>
	<title>This doesn't make any sense</title>
	<author>LeRaldo</author>
	<datestamp>1265377440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't understand why they would do this. It's not like Xbox LIVE was free for those original Xbox games; you still have to pay for it. Not only that, but they've been selling downloadable original Xbox games on the XBL Market Place... and now you wont be able to play them online? How is this logical in any way?

I have an Xbox 360 and still play a few original Xbox titles on it, but only multiplayer on LIVE. I guess that will no longer be possible, and that secures me never buying an original Xbox title on their LIVE marketplace.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why they would do this .
It 's not like Xbox LIVE was free for those original Xbox games ; you still have to pay for it .
Not only that , but they 've been selling downloadable original Xbox games on the XBL Market Place... and now you wont be able to play them online ?
How is this logical in any way ?
I have an Xbox 360 and still play a few original Xbox titles on it , but only multiplayer on LIVE .
I guess that will no longer be possible , and that secures me never buying an original Xbox title on their LIVE marketplace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why they would do this.
It's not like Xbox LIVE was free for those original Xbox games; you still have to pay for it.
Not only that, but they've been selling downloadable original Xbox games on the XBL Market Place... and now you wont be able to play them online?
How is this logical in any way?
I have an Xbox 360 and still play a few original Xbox titles on it, but only multiplayer on LIVE.
I guess that will no longer be possible, and that secures me never buying an original Xbox title on their LIVE marketplace.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042854</id>
	<title>Re:Already a trend</title>
	<author>Scott Kevill</author>
	<datestamp>1265387100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Let's talk about some old games. Take, for one, Halo 2. It's now going to be permanently offline, as a result of it being connected to Microsoft's services. Let's go back though. Take a look at Jedi Knight. Can you play that online anymore? Nope. Microsoft service. Dead. Any of those other MSN/"Zone" games? Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online, so the games all still support that.</p></div><p>You raise a valid point, though Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II and nearly all of the MSN Zone games can still be played online through GameRanger (see the <a href="http://www.gameranger.com/games/" title="gameranger.com">list</a> [gameranger.com]). You'd be amazed at how many games of Age of Empires II are being played each day -- it puts many recent games to shame.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's talk about some old games .
Take , for one , Halo 2 .
It 's now going to be permanently offline , as a result of it being connected to Microsoft 's services .
Let 's go back though .
Take a look at Jedi Knight .
Can you play that online anymore ?
Nope. Microsoft service .
Dead. Any of those other MSN/ " Zone " games ?
Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online , so the games all still support that.You raise a valid point , though Jedi Knight : Dark Forces II and nearly all of the MSN Zone games can still be played online through GameRanger ( see the list [ gameranger.com ] ) .
You 'd be amazed at how many games of Age of Empires II are being played each day -- it puts many recent games to shame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's talk about some old games.
Take, for one, Halo 2.
It's now going to be permanently offline, as a result of it being connected to Microsoft's services.
Let's go back though.
Take a look at Jedi Knight.
Can you play that online anymore?
Nope. Microsoft service.
Dead. Any of those other MSN/"Zone" games?
Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online, so the games all still support that.You raise a valid point, though Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II and nearly all of the MSN Zone games can still be played online through GameRanger (see the list [gameranger.com]).
You'd be amazed at how many games of Age of Empires II are being played each day -- it puts many recent games to shame.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041388</id>
	<title>Sound of a Million Classic Gamers cry out at once</title>
	<author>Jackie\_Chan\_Fan</author>
	<datestamp>1265375160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this is why classic gaming will die.</p><p>Hopefully someone will write their own xbox live open source server system for gamers to keep going.</p><p>Thats it if anyone is actually interested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this is why classic gaming will die.Hopefully someone will write their own xbox live open source server system for gamers to keep going.Thats it if anyone is actually interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this is why classic gaming will die.Hopefully someone will write their own xbox live open source server system for gamers to keep going.Thats it if anyone is actually interested.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31047320</id>
	<title>Talk about killing nostalgia..</title>
	<author>Rexdude</author>
	<datestamp>1265488320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was 15 when Doom was launched. In fact, I fondly remember the times all the classic FPSes (Quake 1/2, Duke 3D, Halflife, Heretic, Hexen) were released, and playing the demos bundled with magazine CDs. The first time I tried multiplayer was in college, around 1998. Friend of mine had 2 PCs at home, and we would play Halflife 1 and Quake 2/3 multiplayer. On weekends, 3 other guys would converge at his place for LAN parties. I ran into him recently, turns out he STILL plays Halflife 1, finding all the new games with activation etc too complicated.<br>We had another game together for old times' sake and it was just as much fun as before.<br>When it comes to single player, I use <a href="http://www.dosbox.com/" title="dosbox.com">DosBOX</a> [dosbox.com] to play . Currently I'm playing Fallout 1. There are still tons of perfectly playable and fun games from a generation ago, if you're not picky about graphics.</p><p>Imagine the kids playing today..with all the bullshit activation and servers going down, do you think they'll be able to revisit the games of today 10 or 20 years hence?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was 15 when Doom was launched .
In fact , I fondly remember the times all the classic FPSes ( Quake 1/2 , Duke 3D , Halflife , Heretic , Hexen ) were released , and playing the demos bundled with magazine CDs .
The first time I tried multiplayer was in college , around 1998 .
Friend of mine had 2 PCs at home , and we would play Halflife 1 and Quake 2/3 multiplayer .
On weekends , 3 other guys would converge at his place for LAN parties .
I ran into him recently , turns out he STILL plays Halflife 1 , finding all the new games with activation etc too complicated.We had another game together for old times ' sake and it was just as much fun as before.When it comes to single player , I use DosBOX [ dosbox.com ] to play .
Currently I 'm playing Fallout 1 .
There are still tons of perfectly playable and fun games from a generation ago , if you 're not picky about graphics.Imagine the kids playing today..with all the bullshit activation and servers going down , do you think they 'll be able to revisit the games of today 10 or 20 years hence ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was 15 when Doom was launched.
In fact, I fondly remember the times all the classic FPSes (Quake 1/2, Duke 3D, Halflife, Heretic, Hexen) were released, and playing the demos bundled with magazine CDs.
The first time I tried multiplayer was in college, around 1998.
Friend of mine had 2 PCs at home, and we would play Halflife 1 and Quake 2/3 multiplayer.
On weekends, 3 other guys would converge at his place for LAN parties.
I ran into him recently, turns out he STILL plays Halflife 1, finding all the new games with activation etc too complicated.We had another game together for old times' sake and it was just as much fun as before.When it comes to single player, I use DosBOX [dosbox.com] to play .
Currently I'm playing Fallout 1.
There are still tons of perfectly playable and fun games from a generation ago, if you're not picky about graphics.Imagine the kids playing today..with all the bullshit activation and servers going down, do you think they'll be able to revisit the games of today 10 or 20 years hence?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038746</id>
	<title>Translation</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1265361360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Quit playing your Xbox and buy a Xbox 360 already dammit.
<br> <br>
- Love Steve Ballmer</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quit playing your Xbox and buy a Xbox 360 already dammit .
- Love Steve Ballmer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quit playing your Xbox and buy a Xbox 360 already dammit.
- Love Steve Ballmer</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039608</id>
	<title>Re:Better PR</title>
	<author>MogNuts</author>
	<datestamp>1265365440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your argument is sound. However, there is a problem nowadays, but my earlier post sums it up perfectly, so I'll place it here:</p><p>"I just want to spell it out though, because I don't think fellow<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers realize the gravity of this. What happens to PC games using LIVE? When they hit the switch, games like RE5 and Gears of War, that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches, won't even be able to save or access your old saved game! And what happens with the 360? People still play Oblivion. What happens if you need a patch from XBL (which is absolutely necessary)? You're screwed. So basically the precedent has been set. Once a new XBox is out, it's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are *worthless*.</p><p>I can't believe no one realized this when they read the article. I saw it and thought this is the biggest (and SCARIEST) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your argument is sound .
However , there is a problem nowadays , but my earlier post sums it up perfectly , so I 'll place it here : " I just want to spell it out though , because I do n't think fellow / .
'ers realize the gravity of this .
What happens to PC games using LIVE ?
When they hit the switch , games like RE5 and Gears of War , that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches , wo n't even be able to save or access your old saved game !
And what happens with the 360 ?
People still play Oblivion .
What happens if you need a patch from XBL ( which is absolutely necessary ) ?
You 're screwed .
So basically the precedent has been set .
Once a new XBox is out , it 's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are * worthless * .I ca n't believe no one realized this when they read the article .
I saw it and thought this is the biggest ( and SCARIEST ) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your argument is sound.
However, there is a problem nowadays, but my earlier post sums it up perfectly, so I'll place it here:"I just want to spell it out though, because I don't think fellow /.
'ers realize the gravity of this.
What happens to PC games using LIVE?
When they hit the switch, games like RE5 and Gears of War, that utilize LIVE for saving/accessing games and patches, won't even be able to save or access your old saved game!
And what happens with the 360?
People still play Oblivion.
What happens if you need a patch from XBL (which is absolutely necessary)?
You're screwed.
So basically the precedent has been set.
Once a new XBox is out, it's 5 years until all the games you bought for your 360 and/or PC are *worthless*.I can't believe no one realized this when they read the article.
I saw it and thought this is the biggest (and SCARIEST) thing to happen to the video game industry since Pong!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038630</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>poetmatt</author>
	<datestamp>1265361000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're right for most games, but not for all. Some games actually think long term such as Eve online.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're right for most games , but not for all .
Some games actually think long term such as Eve online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're right for most games, but not for all.
Some games actually think long term such as Eve online.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042878</id>
	<title>Re:Thisis a GREAT thing..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265387400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google "XBC" or "XBoxConnect". You're several years behind the curve. It's not "Live" and instead tunnels the System Link over the Internet, but you can certainly play Halo online. As well as many other games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google " XBC " or " XBoxConnect " .
You 're several years behind the curve .
It 's not " Live " and instead tunnels the System Link over the Internet , but you can certainly play Halo online .
As well as many other games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google "XBC" or "XBoxConnect".
You're several years behind the curve.
It's not "Live" and instead tunnels the System Link over the Internet, but you can certainly play Halo online.
As well as many other games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31045160</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Bert64</author>
	<datestamp>1265467440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But by having a console which depends on a single service, you effectively have an expiry date on the usefulness of the console.<br>Lots of people like to play old games, and many poorer people will buy old consoles very cheaply with a stack of games for their kids.</p><p>I still play quake online sometimes, it runs very fast on almost any modern system and is still great fun to play against other people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But by having a console which depends on a single service , you effectively have an expiry date on the usefulness of the console.Lots of people like to play old games , and many poorer people will buy old consoles very cheaply with a stack of games for their kids.I still play quake online sometimes , it runs very fast on almost any modern system and is still great fun to play against other people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But by having a console which depends on a single service, you effectively have an expiry date on the usefulness of the console.Lots of people like to play old games, and many poorer people will buy old consoles very cheaply with a stack of games for their kids.I still play quake online sometimes, it runs very fast on almost any modern system and is still great fun to play against other people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039764</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>pisces22</author>
	<datestamp>1265366100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How many people here play chess?</p></div><p>Is that you, Joshua?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many people here play chess ? Is that you , Joshua ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many people here play chess?Is that you, Joshua?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31044942</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265464260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>... The reward? To get to use their products.</i></p><p>That's not a reward. That is punishment!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... The reward ?
To get to use their products.That 's not a reward .
That is punishment !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... The reward?
To get to use their products.That's not a reward.
That is punishment!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039422</id>
	<title>Re:Life expectancy</title>
	<author>VGPowerlord</author>
	<datestamp>1265364540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Doom is still being played online.. that's about 17 years and still going?</p></div></blockquote><p>No, because Doom couldn't be played online when it first came out.  By modem yes, on a IPX/SPX LAN yes, on the Internet no.</p><p>Actually, I'm not really sure how you'd play it online now, seeing as how it doesn't use a client/server protocol.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Doom is still being played online.. that 's about 17 years and still going ? No , because Doom could n't be played online when it first came out .
By modem yes , on a IPX/SPX LAN yes , on the Internet no.Actually , I 'm not really sure how you 'd play it online now , seeing as how it does n't use a client/server protocol .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doom is still being played online.. that's about 17 years and still going?No, because Doom couldn't be played online when it first came out.
By modem yes, on a IPX/SPX LAN yes, on the Internet no.Actually, I'm not really sure how you'd play it online now, seeing as how it doesn't use a client/server protocol.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31039672</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking?</title>
	<author>DesertFly</author>
	<datestamp>1265365680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On the XBox maybe?</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the XBox maybe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the XBox maybe?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31041418</id>
	<title>who the sucker!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265375400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>by "a computer" we assume you mean a computer running MS-Windows of some flavor or another?</p><p>If so, then you just signed a worse agreement to forgo another. The EULA for Windows is one of the worst in the industry. That's why Microsoft won't even give you the one you agree to when you purchase a name brand computer. I bet most Dell users don't even realize that the Windows Agreement they signed in order to use their PC was between them and Dell... not Microsoft! Why? It's a legal mess full of limiting your rights as a consumer down to the level of probably being illegal and class-actionable (think anti-trust law). ie: too much legal liability exposure for MS.</p><p>FTR: I have an XBOX. I have read both XBOX live and Windows EULA agreement. The Windows agreement puts all of my computing data and services in jeopardy. Whereas, the XBOX agreement only endangers the gaming portion of my life (smaller subset).</p><p>Anyhow... I don't like the idea of signing outrageous agreements that applies to the same computer I use for email, porn, taxes and other personal stuff.</p><p>Conclusion  : better to sign an EULA on a dedicated device if you have to. ie: buy a game console.<br>Conclusion2 : don't be a sucker. Run linux or other O/S not requiring a ridiculous EULA to do your private computing.<br>Conclusion3 : "and never the Twain shall meet"</p><p>Also of note: a console is cheaper than having a dedicated PC for gaming. I know most don't do this. But it is the only other "safe" option.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>by " a computer " we assume you mean a computer running MS-Windows of some flavor or another ? If so , then you just signed a worse agreement to forgo another .
The EULA for Windows is one of the worst in the industry .
That 's why Microsoft wo n't even give you the one you agree to when you purchase a name brand computer .
I bet most Dell users do n't even realize that the Windows Agreement they signed in order to use their PC was between them and Dell... not Microsoft !
Why ? It 's a legal mess full of limiting your rights as a consumer down to the level of probably being illegal and class-actionable ( think anti-trust law ) .
ie : too much legal liability exposure for MS.FTR : I have an XBOX .
I have read both XBOX live and Windows EULA agreement .
The Windows agreement puts all of my computing data and services in jeopardy .
Whereas , the XBOX agreement only endangers the gaming portion of my life ( smaller subset ) .Anyhow... I do n't like the idea of signing outrageous agreements that applies to the same computer I use for email , porn , taxes and other personal stuff.Conclusion : better to sign an EULA on a dedicated device if you have to .
ie : buy a game console.Conclusion2 : do n't be a sucker .
Run linux or other O/S not requiring a ridiculous EULA to do your private computing.Conclusion3 : " and never the Twain shall meet " Also of note : a console is cheaper than having a dedicated PC for gaming .
I know most do n't do this .
But it is the only other " safe " option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>by "a computer" we assume you mean a computer running MS-Windows of some flavor or another?If so, then you just signed a worse agreement to forgo another.
The EULA for Windows is one of the worst in the industry.
That's why Microsoft won't even give you the one you agree to when you purchase a name brand computer.
I bet most Dell users don't even realize that the Windows Agreement they signed in order to use their PC was between them and Dell... not Microsoft!
Why? It's a legal mess full of limiting your rights as a consumer down to the level of probably being illegal and class-actionable (think anti-trust law).
ie: too much legal liability exposure for MS.FTR: I have an XBOX.
I have read both XBOX live and Windows EULA agreement.
The Windows agreement puts all of my computing data and services in jeopardy.
Whereas, the XBOX agreement only endangers the gaming portion of my life (smaller subset).Anyhow... I don't like the idea of signing outrageous agreements that applies to the same computer I use for email, porn, taxes and other personal stuff.Conclusion  : better to sign an EULA on a dedicated device if you have to.
ie: buy a game console.Conclusion2 : don't be a sucker.
Run linux or other O/S not requiring a ridiculous EULA to do your private computing.Conclusion3 : "and never the Twain shall meet"Also of note: a console is cheaper than having a dedicated PC for gaming.
I know most don't do this.
But it is the only other "safe" option.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038608</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>poetmatt</author>
	<datestamp>1265360880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>really?<br>You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers?</p><p>I'll give you a clue: it wouldn't.</p><p>Welcome to what happens when non-technical console users get shoved into the world of pc gaming/become more techie as a result of MS's poor business choices. I hope people realize this applies to apple and any company/services that uses DRM (such as windows live gaming or whatever it's called) as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>really ? You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers ? I 'll give you a clue : it would n't.Welcome to what happens when non-technical console users get shoved into the world of pc gaming/become more techie as a result of MS 's poor business choices .
I hope people realize this applies to apple and any company/services that uses DRM ( such as windows live gaming or whatever it 's called ) as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>really?You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers?I'll give you a clue: it wouldn't.Welcome to what happens when non-technical console users get shoved into the world of pc gaming/become more techie as a result of MS's poor business choices.
I hope people realize this applies to apple and any company/services that uses DRM (such as windows live gaming or whatever it's called) as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038754</id>
	<title>Not again!</title>
	<author>tgd</author>
	<datestamp>1265361420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its like when GEnie shut down the Air Warrior servers!</p><p>(did I just date myself?)</p><p>Seriously, though. Halo2 is fun, but its 2010. Play Halo3. All of the rest of us know its identical to Halo2 only with better graphics. You'll barely even notice the change if you're on an equally old TV.</p><p>And it sure sounded to me like they aren't happy they're making the move and, unlike most companies that do it, are planning on interacting with the affected people *somehow*.</p><p>I know people on Slashdot hate Microsoft for just about everything, but once you pull your head out of that hole, I don't see how this is worth grabbing the pitchforks for. If you aren't one of the people impacted, why do you care so much, and if you are *they said they're going to work with you about it*. So why are you bent out of shape *before they have*?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its like when GEnie shut down the Air Warrior servers !
( did I just date myself ?
) Seriously , though .
Halo2 is fun , but its 2010 .
Play Halo3 .
All of the rest of us know its identical to Halo2 only with better graphics .
You 'll barely even notice the change if you 're on an equally old TV.And it sure sounded to me like they are n't happy they 're making the move and , unlike most companies that do it , are planning on interacting with the affected people * somehow * .I know people on Slashdot hate Microsoft for just about everything , but once you pull your head out of that hole , I do n't see how this is worth grabbing the pitchforks for .
If you are n't one of the people impacted , why do you care so much , and if you are * they said they 're going to work with you about it * .
So why are you bent out of shape * before they have * ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its like when GEnie shut down the Air Warrior servers!
(did I just date myself?
)Seriously, though.
Halo2 is fun, but its 2010.
Play Halo3.
All of the rest of us know its identical to Halo2 only with better graphics.
You'll barely even notice the change if you're on an equally old TV.And it sure sounded to me like they aren't happy they're making the move and, unlike most companies that do it, are planning on interacting with the affected people *somehow*.I know people on Slashdot hate Microsoft for just about everything, but once you pull your head out of that hole, I don't see how this is worth grabbing the pitchforks for.
If you aren't one of the people impacted, why do you care so much, and if you are *they said they're going to work with you about it*.
So why are you bent out of shape *before they have*?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042262</id>
	<title>Re:Punish Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265381700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your Fender doesn't rely on continued support from it's maker either. Once you buy it, it becomes yours in a completely self sustained way. If you needed to send it into Fender every week to have work done on it so that you may keep using it, and each different model creates additional support costs for Fender, then I'm sure your old guitar would lose support too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your Fender does n't rely on continued support from it 's maker either .
Once you buy it , it becomes yours in a completely self sustained way .
If you needed to send it into Fender every week to have work done on it so that you may keep using it , and each different model creates additional support costs for Fender , then I 'm sure your old guitar would lose support too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your Fender doesn't rely on continued support from it's maker either.
Once you buy it, it becomes yours in a completely self sustained way.
If you needed to send it into Fender every week to have work done on it so that you may keep using it, and each different model creates additional support costs for Fender, then I'm sure your old guitar would lose support too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31042404</id>
	<title>Re:Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265382720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Modern Warfare 2 will not be missed much by the PC community. It was one of the most overhyped, unbalanced and glitchiest AAA games released.</p><p>Valve have repeatedly said that they'll patch Steam if it ever gets shut down, and even if they don't the DRM on Steam has been broken for ages already. Whenever the Valve License Check servers go down, anybody can play Source games multiplayer (hence the DDoS attacks on them by pirates a while ago).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern Warfare 2 will not be missed much by the PC community .
It was one of the most overhyped , unbalanced and glitchiest AAA games released.Valve have repeatedly said that they 'll patch Steam if it ever gets shut down , and even if they do n't the DRM on Steam has been broken for ages already .
Whenever the Valve License Check servers go down , anybody can play Source games multiplayer ( hence the DDoS attacks on them by pirates a while ago ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern Warfare 2 will not be missed much by the PC community.
It was one of the most overhyped, unbalanced and glitchiest AAA games released.Valve have repeatedly said that they'll patch Steam if it ever gets shut down, and even if they don't the DRM on Steam has been broken for ages already.
Whenever the Valve License Check servers go down, anybody can play Source games multiplayer (hence the DDoS attacks on them by pirates a while ago).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_05_1727233.31038848</parent>
</comment>
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