<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_03_0730236</id>
	<title>Game Industry Vets On DRM</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1265185980000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader points out an article at SavyGamer in which several game industry veterans were <a href="http://savygamer.co.uk/2010/02/01/digital-rights-and-wrongs-the-state-of-drm/">polled for their opinions on DRM</a>. Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact. "Maybe a few of the more honest people now buy the game rather than pirate it, but this sort of thing is impossible to measure. You can see how many people are cracking and uploading your game, but tracking downloads is harder. It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway. People who crack and upload games don't give a damn what you've done to placate gamers, they crack it anyway." Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM. Richard Wilson of TIGA feels that customers should be adequately warned before buying a game that uses DRM, but makes no bones about the opinion that the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader points out an article at SavyGamer in which several game industry veterans were polled for their opinions on DRM .
Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he did n't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games , accepting it as an unavoidable fact .
" Maybe a few of the more honest people now buy the game rather than pirate it , but this sort of thing is impossible to measure .
You can see how many people are cracking and uploading your game , but tracking downloads is harder .
It seems any game , even if it 's $ 0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend , will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway .
People who crack and upload games do n't give a damn what you 've done to placate gamers , they crack it anyway .
" Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company has n't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM .
Richard Wilson of TIGA feels that customers should be adequately warned before buying a game that uses DRM , but makes no bones about the opinion that the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader points out an article at SavyGamer in which several game industry veterans were polled for their opinions on DRM.
Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact.
"Maybe a few of the more honest people now buy the game rather than pirate it, but this sort of thing is impossible to measure.
You can see how many people are cracking and uploading your game, but tracking downloads is harder.
It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway.
People who crack and upload games don't give a damn what you've done to placate gamers, they crack it anyway.
" Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM.
Richard Wilson of TIGA feels that customers should be adequately warned before buying a game that uses DRM, but makes no bones about the opinion that the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008016</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264939380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pigs arse. People like you are exactly who one of the publishers are talking about when it comes to not paying for games. Because lets face it, no game in the world is going to be good enough for you to part with a buck. There is going to be some trivial fault or functionality in the game that makes it non perfect. If it is non-perfect, why should "hairyfeet" have to pay for it. Even if it was perfect, you'd come up with an excuse not to pay for it. Perhaps it isn't open source. Or if it was open source the license wasn't the right license....

Parasite.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pigs arse .
People like you are exactly who one of the publishers are talking about when it comes to not paying for games .
Because lets face it , no game in the world is going to be good enough for you to part with a buck .
There is going to be some trivial fault or functionality in the game that makes it non perfect .
If it is non-perfect , why should " hairyfeet " have to pay for it .
Even if it was perfect , you 'd come up with an excuse not to pay for it .
Perhaps it is n't open source .
Or if it was open source the license was n't the right license... . Parasite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pigs arse.
People like you are exactly who one of the publishers are talking about when it comes to not paying for games.
Because lets face it, no game in the world is going to be good enough for you to part with a buck.
There is going to be some trivial fault or functionality in the game that makes it non perfect.
If it is non-perfect, why should "hairyfeet" have to pay for it.
Even if it was perfect, you'd come up with an excuse not to pay for it.
Perhaps it isn't open source.
Or if it was open source the license wasn't the right license....

Parasite.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31018628</id>
	<title>Piracy has benefits.Not just loss of profit.</title>
	<author>Gel214th</author>
	<datestamp>1264956240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the popular Piracy statistics relating to loss of profit are lies. It is only because Corporations ensure laws in their favor that organisations such as the RIAA and the MPAA can make the sort of claims for damages that they do. When a youth in India downloads Call of Duty and then leaves uTorrent running, that isn't a loss worth 500,000USD. There are many places and many individuals both within and outside the US and the developed world who literally cannot afford these games.</p><p>Becoming involved in electronic entertainment can lead to an interest in computing, a career and innovation for the industry as a whole. If not by Piracy how else would someone living in a third world nation gain the necessary skills to advance and gain employment, if they are never exposed to Windows 7 or Microsoft Office for example? Would they even be interested in computers at all if they are never captivated by Dragon Age? You have developers in Poland, and Russia who create amazing games for us all to enjoy. Anyone ever did a poll to see how many of them purchased every bit of development software that they used through their youth?</p><p>I have quite a few friends who's introduction to Computers, Programming and Development came through an interest in playing games. Has anyone ever done a survey to track someone who claimed to Pirate games in their youth, and whether they become paying customers as they get older and can afford it? Do they buy a Game Console...do they buy two?</p><p>We have a new Digital Divide being perpetuated by the top First World Nations through Copyright law and Trade Treaties. An insidious and growing division which keeps the latest advances in hardware, software and content within the territories of the First World and the United States in particular.For example take The iPhone which is thought to be one of the more innovative gadgets of our time.It almost single handedly brought the media connected touch screen smartphone to the market, and made multitouch the wow feature that it is today. Can you say that you are in the Tech industry if you've never seen one or used one? iPhone Application Development is a new field, and if you can't get access to an iPhone...you really can't be a part of that market. Yet the iPhone was locked to the United States and a few other choice providers for at least a year. The only way to access this hardware was by breaking the law....through Piracy. And yet through that Piracy you had developers worldwide starting to write applications, starting to learn about developing for the new and burgeoning mobile marketplace. In the little island of Trinidad a blog started up that followed the iPhone, linked to the latest applications etc. and it was very well followed. The blog owner even developed his own themes etc. which other iPhone users took advantage of. Should Apple pay him for that service,give him the cost of the iPhone back? Where is the Loss of Profit?</p><p>Does anyone remember Shareware? One of the quickest ways to get your games in the hands of potential customers. Would ID have been as big if it hadn't been for shareware? What went wrong? Now we have a BitTorrent network that can provide the ultimate shareware distribution platform, yet Publishers and Developers do not take advantage of it. Instead they spend Millions adding DRM, then fielding the Tech Support calls;legitimate customers have to fight with horridly slow download speeds through Direct2Drive, Steam and others during big releases. And all so that the money keeps revolving through the hands that, of course, truly deserve it.The customer gets left out in the cold, pulling wads of money from his pockets just for entertainment with more problems and frustrations. Loss of Profit?</p><p>When a Publisher decides to release a game Digitally only in the United States and ignores the Rest of the World...is it a Loss of Profit when someone in New Zealand downloads the game to play it? The Publisher has already made a decision that they don't want that sale, is it a loss of profit in that circumstance? Does that</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the popular Piracy statistics relating to loss of profit are lies .
It is only because Corporations ensure laws in their favor that organisations such as the RIAA and the MPAA can make the sort of claims for damages that they do .
When a youth in India downloads Call of Duty and then leaves uTorrent running , that is n't a loss worth 500,000USD .
There are many places and many individuals both within and outside the US and the developed world who literally can not afford these games.Becoming involved in electronic entertainment can lead to an interest in computing , a career and innovation for the industry as a whole .
If not by Piracy how else would someone living in a third world nation gain the necessary skills to advance and gain employment , if they are never exposed to Windows 7 or Microsoft Office for example ?
Would they even be interested in computers at all if they are never captivated by Dragon Age ?
You have developers in Poland , and Russia who create amazing games for us all to enjoy .
Anyone ever did a poll to see how many of them purchased every bit of development software that they used through their youth ? I have quite a few friends who 's introduction to Computers , Programming and Development came through an interest in playing games .
Has anyone ever done a survey to track someone who claimed to Pirate games in their youth , and whether they become paying customers as they get older and can afford it ?
Do they buy a Game Console...do they buy two ? We have a new Digital Divide being perpetuated by the top First World Nations through Copyright law and Trade Treaties .
An insidious and growing division which keeps the latest advances in hardware , software and content within the territories of the First World and the United States in particular.For example take The iPhone which is thought to be one of the more innovative gadgets of our time.It almost single handedly brought the media connected touch screen smartphone to the market , and made multitouch the wow feature that it is today .
Can you say that you are in the Tech industry if you 've never seen one or used one ?
iPhone Application Development is a new field , and if you ca n't get access to an iPhone...you really ca n't be a part of that market .
Yet the iPhone was locked to the United States and a few other choice providers for at least a year .
The only way to access this hardware was by breaking the law....through Piracy .
And yet through that Piracy you had developers worldwide starting to write applications , starting to learn about developing for the new and burgeoning mobile marketplace .
In the little island of Trinidad a blog started up that followed the iPhone , linked to the latest applications etc .
and it was very well followed .
The blog owner even developed his own themes etc .
which other iPhone users took advantage of .
Should Apple pay him for that service,give him the cost of the iPhone back ?
Where is the Loss of Profit ? Does anyone remember Shareware ?
One of the quickest ways to get your games in the hands of potential customers .
Would ID have been as big if it had n't been for shareware ?
What went wrong ?
Now we have a BitTorrent network that can provide the ultimate shareware distribution platform , yet Publishers and Developers do not take advantage of it .
Instead they spend Millions adding DRM , then fielding the Tech Support calls ; legitimate customers have to fight with horridly slow download speeds through Direct2Drive , Steam and others during big releases .
And all so that the money keeps revolving through the hands that , of course , truly deserve it.The customer gets left out in the cold , pulling wads of money from his pockets just for entertainment with more problems and frustrations .
Loss of Profit ? When a Publisher decides to release a game Digitally only in the United States and ignores the Rest of the World...is it a Loss of Profit when someone in New Zealand downloads the game to play it ?
The Publisher has already made a decision that they do n't want that sale , is it a loss of profit in that circumstance ?
Does that</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the popular Piracy statistics relating to loss of profit are lies.
It is only because Corporations ensure laws in their favor that organisations such as the RIAA and the MPAA can make the sort of claims for damages that they do.
When a youth in India downloads Call of Duty and then leaves uTorrent running, that isn't a loss worth 500,000USD.
There are many places and many individuals both within and outside the US and the developed world who literally cannot afford these games.Becoming involved in electronic entertainment can lead to an interest in computing, a career and innovation for the industry as a whole.
If not by Piracy how else would someone living in a third world nation gain the necessary skills to advance and gain employment, if they are never exposed to Windows 7 or Microsoft Office for example?
Would they even be interested in computers at all if they are never captivated by Dragon Age?
You have developers in Poland, and Russia who create amazing games for us all to enjoy.
Anyone ever did a poll to see how many of them purchased every bit of development software that they used through their youth?I have quite a few friends who's introduction to Computers, Programming and Development came through an interest in playing games.
Has anyone ever done a survey to track someone who claimed to Pirate games in their youth, and whether they become paying customers as they get older and can afford it?
Do they buy a Game Console...do they buy two?We have a new Digital Divide being perpetuated by the top First World Nations through Copyright law and Trade Treaties.
An insidious and growing division which keeps the latest advances in hardware, software and content within the territories of the First World and the United States in particular.For example take The iPhone which is thought to be one of the more innovative gadgets of our time.It almost single handedly brought the media connected touch screen smartphone to the market, and made multitouch the wow feature that it is today.
Can you say that you are in the Tech industry if you've never seen one or used one?
iPhone Application Development is a new field, and if you can't get access to an iPhone...you really can't be a part of that market.
Yet the iPhone was locked to the United States and a few other choice providers for at least a year.
The only way to access this hardware was by breaking the law....through Piracy.
And yet through that Piracy you had developers worldwide starting to write applications, starting to learn about developing for the new and burgeoning mobile marketplace.
In the little island of Trinidad a blog started up that followed the iPhone, linked to the latest applications etc.
and it was very well followed.
The blog owner even developed his own themes etc.
which other iPhone users took advantage of.
Should Apple pay him for that service,give him the cost of the iPhone back?
Where is the Loss of Profit?Does anyone remember Shareware?
One of the quickest ways to get your games in the hands of potential customers.
Would ID have been as big if it hadn't been for shareware?
What went wrong?
Now we have a BitTorrent network that can provide the ultimate shareware distribution platform, yet Publishers and Developers do not take advantage of it.
Instead they spend Millions adding DRM, then fielding the Tech Support calls;legitimate customers have to fight with horridly slow download speeds through Direct2Drive, Steam and others during big releases.
And all so that the money keeps revolving through the hands that, of course, truly deserve it.The customer gets left out in the cold, pulling wads of money from his pockets just for entertainment with more problems and frustrations.
Loss of Profit?When a Publisher decides to release a game Digitally only in the United States and ignores the Rest of the World...is it a Loss of Profit when someone in New Zealand downloads the game to play it?
The Publisher has already made a decision that they don't want that sale, is it a loss of profit in that circumstance?
Does that</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007968</id>
	<title>Living here in Korea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Living in Korea, I see the sort of extreme example of piracy run rampant.  Korean companies scarcely consider the idea of a game that isn't online because it would be universally pirated that very day.  They'd never see a dime from it.</p><p>I teach in a private academy where I see lots of kids with Nintendo DS's; I never see real games in them.  They universally use this R4 chip that has all the games loaded on it.  Because of this, Nintendo barely considers them a market.  Meanwhile OS bootlegging is so prevalent, that people no longer even expect a legitimate OS with a new system.  Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.</p><p>I don't support DRM or prosecuting old ladies, but I also think measures to prevent piracy must be taken in some capacity lest it irreparably warp the industry like it has here in Korea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Living in Korea , I see the sort of extreme example of piracy run rampant .
Korean companies scarcely consider the idea of a game that is n't online because it would be universally pirated that very day .
They 'd never see a dime from it.I teach in a private academy where I see lots of kids with Nintendo DS 's ; I never see real games in them .
They universally use this R4 chip that has all the games loaded on it .
Because of this , Nintendo barely considers them a market .
Meanwhile OS bootlegging is so prevalent , that people no longer even expect a legitimate OS with a new system .
Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.I do n't support DRM or prosecuting old ladies , but I also think measures to prevent piracy must be taken in some capacity lest it irreparably warp the industry like it has here in Korea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Living in Korea, I see the sort of extreme example of piracy run rampant.
Korean companies scarcely consider the idea of a game that isn't online because it would be universally pirated that very day.
They'd never see a dime from it.I teach in a private academy where I see lots of kids with Nintendo DS's; I never see real games in them.
They universally use this R4 chip that has all the games loaded on it.
Because of this, Nintendo barely considers them a market.
Meanwhile OS bootlegging is so prevalent, that people no longer even expect a legitimate OS with a new system.
Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.I don't support DRM or prosecuting old ladies, but I also think measures to prevent piracy must be taken in some capacity lest it irreparably warp the industry like it has here in Korea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008376</id>
	<title>Case in point...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264944000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"People who crack and upload games don't give a damn what you've done to placate gamers, they crack it anyway."</p><p>He's right.  A while ago somebody joked here that no one would ever crack the bad games.  However, there are many games where you <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=barbie+horse+adventures+torrent" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">wonder why someone would bother</a> [google.com], but the pirated versions are still there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" People who crack and upload games do n't give a damn what you 've done to placate gamers , they crack it anyway .
" He 's right .
A while ago somebody joked here that no one would ever crack the bad games .
However , there are many games where you wonder why someone would bother [ google.com ] , but the pirated versions are still there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"People who crack and upload games don't give a damn what you've done to placate gamers, they crack it anyway.
"He's right.
A while ago somebody joked here that no one would ever crack the bad games.
However, there are many games where you wonder why someone would bother [google.com], but the pirated versions are still there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31036774</id>
	<title>Re:DRM, three Evils in One</title>
	<author>hanako</author>
	<datestamp>1265396040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I don't apply DRM to my products because of my personal moral beliefs, that does not appear to have any effect on people's desire to pirate or not pirate, nor does it make anyone think of me as a 'nice' company that they shouldn't steal from - I still get rants about how I'm evil and deserve to die because I put thing X in a game, or didn't put thing X in a game, or didn't sell on Steam, or didn't sell at retail in Malaysia, or didn't accept some payment method I've never heard of and they never asked me about anyway, or didn't use photorealistic 3d that I could never afford anyway, or dared to charge any money at all! People who want to come up with an excuse not to pay are quite good at finding other justifications.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I do n't apply DRM to my products because of my personal moral beliefs , that does not appear to have any effect on people 's desire to pirate or not pirate , nor does it make anyone think of me as a 'nice ' company that they should n't steal from - I still get rants about how I 'm evil and deserve to die because I put thing X in a game , or did n't put thing X in a game , or did n't sell on Steam , or did n't sell at retail in Malaysia , or did n't accept some payment method I 've never heard of and they never asked me about anyway , or did n't use photorealistic 3d that I could never afford anyway , or dared to charge any money at all !
People who want to come up with an excuse not to pay are quite good at finding other justifications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I don't apply DRM to my products because of my personal moral beliefs, that does not appear to have any effect on people's desire to pirate or not pirate, nor does it make anyone think of me as a 'nice' company that they shouldn't steal from - I still get rants about how I'm evil and deserve to die because I put thing X in a game, or didn't put thing X in a game, or didn't sell on Steam, or didn't sell at retail in Malaysia, or didn't accept some payment method I've never heard of and they never asked me about anyway, or didn't use photorealistic 3d that I could never afford anyway, or dared to charge any money at all!
People who want to come up with an excuse not to pay are quite good at finding other justifications.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008308</id>
	<title>better then DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264942980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A better model then DRM could be to show the user how much the developer has lost due to piracy.<br>This number could disappear if the user owns a legitimate copy.<br>Pirates could be prompted how much they believe the game is worth.<br>That's it, no wierdness or making it difficult to copy the game whatsoever. However, there is that text which informs the user how much longer it's going to take to get the funds to develop the next game, or how long the studio is going to last until the funds run dry.<br>All this shouldn't be intrusive, so it won't give any motivation to "crack" the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A better model then DRM could be to show the user how much the developer has lost due to piracy.This number could disappear if the user owns a legitimate copy.Pirates could be prompted how much they believe the game is worth.That 's it , no wierdness or making it difficult to copy the game whatsoever .
However , there is that text which informs the user how much longer it 's going to take to get the funds to develop the next game , or how long the studio is going to last until the funds run dry.All this should n't be intrusive , so it wo n't give any motivation to " crack " the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better model then DRM could be to show the user how much the developer has lost due to piracy.This number could disappear if the user owns a legitimate copy.Pirates could be prompted how much they believe the game is worth.That's it, no wierdness or making it difficult to copy the game whatsoever.
However, there is that text which informs the user how much longer it's going to take to get the funds to develop the next game, or how long the studio is going to last until the funds run dry.All this shouldn't be intrusive, so it won't give any motivation to "crack" the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008152</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Waccoon</author>
	<datestamp>1264941000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Steam has also gotten "less bad" over time, and as a result the nostalgia effect has kicked in.  It's a shame I remember how terrible it was when it came out, and few other people do.  I still boycott it, simply because of the horrible way it was established in the first place.</p><p>I buy (and play) so few modern games these days.  Mandatory online activation of any sort is the day I stop gaming.  The old ones I have are numerous and plenty good enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Steam has also gotten " less bad " over time , and as a result the nostalgia effect has kicked in .
It 's a shame I remember how terrible it was when it came out , and few other people do .
I still boycott it , simply because of the horrible way it was established in the first place.I buy ( and play ) so few modern games these days .
Mandatory online activation of any sort is the day I stop gaming .
The old ones I have are numerous and plenty good enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steam has also gotten "less bad" over time, and as a result the nostalgia effect has kicked in.
It's a shame I remember how terrible it was when it came out, and few other people do.
I still boycott it, simply because of the horrible way it was established in the first place.I buy (and play) so few modern games these days.
Mandatory online activation of any sort is the day I stop gaming.
The old ones I have are numerous and plenty good enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009570</id>
	<title>Re:A dongle-like solution?</title>
	<author>LingNoi</author>
	<datestamp>1264952640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So it's exactly the same as having to have a CD to run the game but more annoying because now I have more problems running the game. Sounds great...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So it 's exactly the same as having to have a CD to run the game but more annoying because now I have more problems running the game .
Sounds great.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it's exactly the same as having to have a CD to run the game but more annoying because now I have more problems running the game.
Sounds great...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008352</id>
	<title>Someone got it right (at least for old games)</title>
	<author>holiggan</author>
	<datestamp>1264943640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, since we are talking about DRM, I should mention <a href="http://www.gog.com/" title="gog.com">Good Old Games</a> [gog.com].</p><p>Basically, they sell "old games", without any DRM whatsoever, and that are 7/Vista/XP compatible.</p><p>And although they have some fairly "recent" titles (Painkiller, for example), I don't recall seeing any of their games on the P2P networks. Or any cracks. Oh, right, they don't have anything to crack to begin with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Oh and the games are dirty cheap as well. And legal.</p><p>I think that the person that mention that this should be about beneficts for the legitimate client is right.</p><p>In the GOG case, I can install the game wherever I want, when I want, no activation or "phone-home" or whatsoever. And they really provide a "value added" service: some games aren't available anywere else (even P2P networks), and they have gone the extra step of making them playable on the modern versions of Windows.</p><p>So the publisher cashes in their older titles, instead of clinging on them and not doing anything with them (like actually selling the games) and/or chasing whoever dares to mess with it, i.e. fan-made remakes, reverse engineering and things like that, GOG cashes in with the nostalgia of the clients, and the quality of the majority of the offerings, and the clients cash in as well, being able to play quality games for low-low prices, and not having to worry about if SecureRom will break their Windows.</p><p>Just a quick mention of Steam. I like the concept, and they are doing some things right. But I hope they don't let the publishers run wild with the platform (the Bioshock 2 "protection" seems insane! DRM on top of Steam and validations?!).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , since we are talking about DRM , I should mention Good Old Games [ gog.com ] .Basically , they sell " old games " , without any DRM whatsoever , and that are 7/Vista/XP compatible.And although they have some fairly " recent " titles ( Painkiller , for example ) , I do n't recall seeing any of their games on the P2P networks .
Or any cracks .
Oh , right , they do n't have anything to crack to begin with : ) Oh and the games are dirty cheap as well .
And legal.I think that the person that mention that this should be about beneficts for the legitimate client is right.In the GOG case , I can install the game wherever I want , when I want , no activation or " phone-home " or whatsoever .
And they really provide a " value added " service : some games are n't available anywere else ( even P2P networks ) , and they have gone the extra step of making them playable on the modern versions of Windows.So the publisher cashes in their older titles , instead of clinging on them and not doing anything with them ( like actually selling the games ) and/or chasing whoever dares to mess with it , i.e .
fan-made remakes , reverse engineering and things like that , GOG cashes in with the nostalgia of the clients , and the quality of the majority of the offerings , and the clients cash in as well , being able to play quality games for low-low prices , and not having to worry about if SecureRom will break their Windows.Just a quick mention of Steam .
I like the concept , and they are doing some things right .
But I hope they do n't let the publishers run wild with the platform ( the Bioshock 2 " protection " seems insane !
DRM on top of Steam and validations ? !
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, since we are talking about DRM, I should mention Good Old Games [gog.com].Basically, they sell "old games", without any DRM whatsoever, and that are 7/Vista/XP compatible.And although they have some fairly "recent" titles (Painkiller, for example), I don't recall seeing any of their games on the P2P networks.
Or any cracks.
Oh, right, they don't have anything to crack to begin with :)Oh and the games are dirty cheap as well.
And legal.I think that the person that mention that this should be about beneficts for the legitimate client is right.In the GOG case, I can install the game wherever I want, when I want, no activation or "phone-home" or whatsoever.
And they really provide a "value added" service: some games aren't available anywere else (even P2P networks), and they have gone the extra step of making them playable on the modern versions of Windows.So the publisher cashes in their older titles, instead of clinging on them and not doing anything with them (like actually selling the games) and/or chasing whoever dares to mess with it, i.e.
fan-made remakes, reverse engineering and things like that, GOG cashes in with the nostalgia of the clients, and the quality of the majority of the offerings, and the clients cash in as well, being able to play quality games for low-low prices, and not having to worry about if SecureRom will break their Windows.Just a quick mention of Steam.
I like the concept, and they are doing some things right.
But I hope they don't let the publishers run wild with the platform (the Bioshock 2 "protection" seems insane!
DRM on top of Steam and validations?!
).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010796</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264957740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh, so dramatic.  I have been PC gaming for years and never had any of the issues you described (or any at all really).  You make it seem like legitimately buying games is going to bring down your computer.  It some tiny minority of cases, things can go wrong.  For the majority of people, it won't.<br> <br>I'll give you credit for one thing.  At least you buy the game.  If you want to get the cracked version because of the DRM boogie man, than I think you should have every right to do so.  So I commend you for actually supporting the developers.<br> <br>But on the other side, you ignore something that should be obvious.  All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend.  They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.  I don't know why Slashdot mods posts up that encourage people to trust installing software from unknown people...but they always do.  While you are at it, why don't you open every single attachment you get from strangers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , so dramatic .
I have been PC gaming for years and never had any of the issues you described ( or any at all really ) .
You make it seem like legitimately buying games is going to bring down your computer .
It some tiny minority of cases , things can go wrong .
For the majority of people , it wo n't .
I 'll give you credit for one thing .
At least you buy the game .
If you want to get the cracked version because of the DRM boogie man , than I think you should have every right to do so .
So I commend you for actually supporting the developers .
But on the other side , you ignore something that should be obvious .
All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend .
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box .
I do n't know why Slashdot mods posts up that encourage people to trust installing software from unknown people...but they always do .
While you are at it , why do n't you open every single attachment you get from strangers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, so dramatic.
I have been PC gaming for years and never had any of the issues you described (or any at all really).
You make it seem like legitimately buying games is going to bring down your computer.
It some tiny minority of cases, things can go wrong.
For the majority of people, it won't.
I'll give you credit for one thing.
At least you buy the game.
If you want to get the cracked version because of the DRM boogie man, than I think you should have every right to do so.
So I commend you for actually supporting the developers.
But on the other side, you ignore something that should be obvious.
All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend.
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.
I don't know why Slashdot mods posts up that encourage people to trust installing software from unknown people...but they always do.
While you are at it, why don't you open every single attachment you get from strangers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009150</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>fulldecent</author>
	<datestamp>1264950300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt; Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses. If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times. I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.</p><p>Have you started any lawsuits for this yet?</p><p>Also, remember... you can return ANYTHING. Whether or not Best Buy's policies agree with you. Leave the CD on the return desk, take a photo and walk away. Then call Visa.</p><p>People who talk about not being able to return things have clearly never called Visa. The phone call is faster than a Slashdot post and 100\% effective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses .
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together , or either of those with any other like SafeDisc , well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly , because you will be getting a taste of those times .
I ca n't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were " dirty evil filthy pirates " for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.Have you started any lawsuits for this yet ? Also , remember... you can return ANYTHING .
Whether or not Best Buy 's policies agree with you .
Leave the CD on the return desk , take a photo and walk away .
Then call Visa.People who talk about not being able to return things have clearly never called Visa .
The phone call is faster than a Slashdot post and 100 \ % effective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses.
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times.
I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.Have you started any lawsuits for this yet?Also, remember... you can return ANYTHING.
Whether or not Best Buy's policies agree with you.
Leave the CD on the return desk, take a photo and walk away.
Then call Visa.People who talk about not being able to return things have clearly never called Visa.
The phone call is faster than a Slashdot post and 100\% effective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009614</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>NickPresta</author>
	<datestamp>1264952700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115638" title="steampowered.com" rel="nofollow">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115638</a> [steampowered.com]

<p>Steam has no SecuROM activation limits. GFWL has a 15-activation limit, but you don't need GFWL to play (you can play offline).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php ? t = 1115638 [ steampowered.com ] Steam has no SecuROM activation limits .
GFWL has a 15-activation limit , but you do n't need GFWL to play ( you can play offline ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115638 [steampowered.com]

Steam has no SecuROM activation limits.
GFWL has a 15-activation limit, but you don't need GFWL to play (you can play offline).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008754</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1264947780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>From summary:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact.</p></div><p>That was an argument <i>FOR</i> using DRM?</p><p>"I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters, it only cost me $ton\_of\_money annually, and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something. Now, the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock, so I see no reason to stop using it."</p></div><p>I parsed that as the guy decided NOT to use DRM anymore and didn't think it made a big difference in the piracy rate of his game (which, of course, it won't).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From summary : Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he did n't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games , accepting it as an unavoidable fact.That was an argument FOR using DRM ?
" I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters , it only cost me $ ton \ _of \ _money annually , and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something .
Now , the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock , so I see no reason to stop using it .
" I parsed that as the guy decided NOT to use DRM anymore and did n't think it made a big difference in the piracy rate of his game ( which , of course , it wo n't ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From summary:Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact.That was an argument FOR using DRM?
"I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters, it only cost me $ton\_of\_money annually, and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something.
Now, the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock, so I see no reason to stop using it.
"I parsed that as the guy decided NOT to use DRM anymore and didn't think it made a big difference in the piracy rate of his game (which, of course, it won't).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007616</id>
	<title>Not the brightest answers.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264934460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...and is DRM-free<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... will be cracked and distributed on day one<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."<br>Why?  If it isn't DRM'd, there's nothing to crack.</p><p>For my games, the ones I bought, I always download the no-cd cracks since I hate having to find the bloody disks whenever I want to play.<br>(Especially if I'm using my laptop, I really don't want to drag around a load of extra junk.)</p><p>Also, I've had some DRM schemes make the games slow and laggy or even mess up my cd/dvd burners ability to make disks.<br>(For the trolls that want to go off on that, I back up and archive to disks, really.)<br>As to the average user, they have no idea that DRM is even there, much less possibly the root of their problem. They tend to assume it's a virus or something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...and is DRM-free ... will be cracked and distributed on day one ... " Why ?
If it is n't DRM 'd , there 's nothing to crack.For my games , the ones I bought , I always download the no-cd cracks since I hate having to find the bloody disks whenever I want to play .
( Especially if I 'm using my laptop , I really do n't want to drag around a load of extra junk .
) Also , I 've had some DRM schemes make the games slow and laggy or even mess up my cd/dvd burners ability to make disks .
( For the trolls that want to go off on that , I back up and archive to disks , really .
) As to the average user , they have no idea that DRM is even there , much less possibly the root of their problem .
They tend to assume it 's a virus or something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...and is DRM-free ... will be cracked and distributed on day one ..."Why?
If it isn't DRM'd, there's nothing to crack.For my games, the ones I bought, I always download the no-cd cracks since I hate having to find the bloody disks whenever I want to play.
(Especially if I'm using my laptop, I really don't want to drag around a load of extra junk.
)Also, I've had some DRM schemes make the games slow and laggy or even mess up my cd/dvd burners ability to make disks.
(For the trolls that want to go off on that, I back up and archive to disks, really.
)As to the average user, they have no idea that DRM is even there, much less possibly the root of their problem.
They tend to assume it's a virus or something.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009768</id>
	<title>Re:It's about used games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264953360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no market for used PC games. Nobody in their right mind will buy a used PC game. Walmart... well, they're a little bit "special".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no market for used PC games .
Nobody in their right mind will buy a used PC game .
Walmart... well , they 're a little bit " special " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no market for used PC games.
Nobody in their right mind will buy a used PC game.
Walmart... well, they're a little bit "special".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008586</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>harl</author>
	<datestamp>1264946280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a better pirate source.  Most games are cracked and available before release day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a better pirate source .
Most games are cracked and available before release day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a better pirate source.
Most games are cracked and available before release day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007482</id>
	<title>It's about used games</title>
	<author>LogicalError</author>
	<datestamp>1264932720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>DRM, nowadays at least, isn't so much about piracy but more about killing the used games market.
Of course they'll tell you it's about piracy, but it really isn't</htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM , nowadays at least , is n't so much about piracy but more about killing the used games market .
Of course they 'll tell you it 's about piracy , but it really is n't</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM, nowadays at least, isn't so much about piracy but more about killing the used games market.
Of course they'll tell you it's about piracy, but it really isn't</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008698</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264947420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RTFA summary that you are quoting.  Mr. Harris and his firm imply very clearly that they have dropped DRM.  He presents the arguments that convinced him DRM is not a Good Thing(tm).</p><p>If the implication in TFA is not obvious please visit the Positech Games site and read Cliffski's blog on the matter at <a href="http://positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html" title="positech.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html</a> [positech.co.uk].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RTFA summary that you are quoting .
Mr. Harris and his firm imply very clearly that they have dropped DRM .
He presents the arguments that convinced him DRM is not a Good Thing ( tm ) .If the implication in TFA is not obvious please visit the Positech Games site and read Cliffski 's blog on the matter at http : //positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html [ positech.co.uk ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RTFA summary that you are quoting.
Mr. Harris and his firm imply very clearly that they have dropped DRM.
He presents the arguments that convinced him DRM is not a Good Thing(tm).If the implication in TFA is not obvious please visit the Positech Games site and read Cliffski's blog on the matter at http://positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html [positech.co.uk].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010438</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Golddess</author>
	<datestamp>1264956420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Or they could just, you know, be like me and <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how\_anti\_piracy\_screws\_over\_people\_who\_buy\_pc\_games/" title="metacafe.com">this guy</a> [metacafe.com] (warning: language NSFW but can you blame him?) and downloading cracked versions <i> <b>of games we already bought</b> </i> because the shitty DRM doesn't work!</p></div><p>Didn't even read the post before responding, did you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or they could just , you know , be like me and this guy [ metacafe.com ] ( warning : language NSFW but can you blame him ?
) and downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM does n't work ! Did n't even read the post before responding , did you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or they could just, you know, be like me and this guy [metacafe.com] (warning: language NSFW but can you blame him?
) and downloading cracked versions  of games we already bought  because the shitty DRM doesn't work!Didn't even read the post before responding, did you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010952</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1264958220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i recall a big name pc gaming mag suggesting people get a crack for elder scrolls: oblivion, as it would improve the performance of the game by as much as 30\%.</p><p>i think that was something of a watershed moment for DRM in games...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i recall a big name pc gaming mag suggesting people get a crack for elder scrolls : oblivion , as it would improve the performance of the game by as much as 30 \ % .i think that was something of a watershed moment for DRM in games.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i recall a big name pc gaming mag suggesting people get a crack for elder scrolls: oblivion, as it would improve the performance of the game by as much as 30\%.i think that was something of a watershed moment for DRM in games...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008370</id>
	<title>Lack Of Information About LAN Play</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1264943940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually stopped buying many games because of the very poor quality information on the back of game boxes - specifically to do with what's required for local LAN gaming.</p><p>If you go back to the days of Red Alert 2, for example, it was possible to buy one copy of a game but install it on multiple PCs on a local LAN so that you could invite a friend over and enjoy a LAN gaming session. However, whereas whether you could do this or not used to be on the back of the game box, these days there is no mention of it - I suspect because now no games really support it, the games company preferred option being to connect to their games servers (e.g. Steam).</p><p>I don't necessarily want to be able to buy one copy of a game and install it for simultaneous play on multiple machines, but I also think that it's a bit extreme to be expected to buy a copy of the full game for each machine in order to do it - the classic recent example of this I came across was "World In Conflict Complete Edition" which, no matter how much I tried, wouldn't let me do local LAN play with it.</p><p>Many years ago I used to download cracked games from Usenet and hand them freely out to friends. But for the sake of paying out a few pounds (by the time the games get to the budget labels) compared to the problems with spreading viruses and having to explain to a lot of those friends how to install the games and get them working, I just stopped doing it.</p><p>As Cliff Harris says in the article, people will always copy stuff that costs any amount of money, sometimes only because of the "prestige" of being the first one to do it. So it's about time games companies realise this and stop with the alienating the honest customers - i.e. give us the play features we want (like LAN play facility) and stop with the restrictive DRM mechanisms.</p><p>It's truly ridiculous, in these days of optical drive-less netbooks, that a game that can be fully installed onto a hard disk still requires you to carry around the game disk with you, especially as if that disk gets damaged in transit, you have to pay for a replacement copy.</p><p>Nowadays, I still game a lot but I either play Open Source/free games or buy them on <a href="htp:wwwgogcom" title="htp">Good Old Games</a> [htp] where optical disks and DRM are not a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually stopped buying many games because of the very poor quality information on the back of game boxes - specifically to do with what 's required for local LAN gaming.If you go back to the days of Red Alert 2 , for example , it was possible to buy one copy of a game but install it on multiple PCs on a local LAN so that you could invite a friend over and enjoy a LAN gaming session .
However , whereas whether you could do this or not used to be on the back of the game box , these days there is no mention of it - I suspect because now no games really support it , the games company preferred option being to connect to their games servers ( e.g .
Steam ) .I do n't necessarily want to be able to buy one copy of a game and install it for simultaneous play on multiple machines , but I also think that it 's a bit extreme to be expected to buy a copy of the full game for each machine in order to do it - the classic recent example of this I came across was " World In Conflict Complete Edition " which , no matter how much I tried , would n't let me do local LAN play with it.Many years ago I used to download cracked games from Usenet and hand them freely out to friends .
But for the sake of paying out a few pounds ( by the time the games get to the budget labels ) compared to the problems with spreading viruses and having to explain to a lot of those friends how to install the games and get them working , I just stopped doing it.As Cliff Harris says in the article , people will always copy stuff that costs any amount of money , sometimes only because of the " prestige " of being the first one to do it .
So it 's about time games companies realise this and stop with the alienating the honest customers - i.e .
give us the play features we want ( like LAN play facility ) and stop with the restrictive DRM mechanisms.It 's truly ridiculous , in these days of optical drive-less netbooks , that a game that can be fully installed onto a hard disk still requires you to carry around the game disk with you , especially as if that disk gets damaged in transit , you have to pay for a replacement copy.Nowadays , I still game a lot but I either play Open Source/free games or buy them on Good Old Games [ htp ] where optical disks and DRM are not a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually stopped buying many games because of the very poor quality information on the back of game boxes - specifically to do with what's required for local LAN gaming.If you go back to the days of Red Alert 2, for example, it was possible to buy one copy of a game but install it on multiple PCs on a local LAN so that you could invite a friend over and enjoy a LAN gaming session.
However, whereas whether you could do this or not used to be on the back of the game box, these days there is no mention of it - I suspect because now no games really support it, the games company preferred option being to connect to their games servers (e.g.
Steam).I don't necessarily want to be able to buy one copy of a game and install it for simultaneous play on multiple machines, but I also think that it's a bit extreme to be expected to buy a copy of the full game for each machine in order to do it - the classic recent example of this I came across was "World In Conflict Complete Edition" which, no matter how much I tried, wouldn't let me do local LAN play with it.Many years ago I used to download cracked games from Usenet and hand them freely out to friends.
But for the sake of paying out a few pounds (by the time the games get to the budget labels) compared to the problems with spreading viruses and having to explain to a lot of those friends how to install the games and get them working, I just stopped doing it.As Cliff Harris says in the article, people will always copy stuff that costs any amount of money, sometimes only because of the "prestige" of being the first one to do it.
So it's about time games companies realise this and stop with the alienating the honest customers - i.e.
give us the play features we want (like LAN play facility) and stop with the restrictive DRM mechanisms.It's truly ridiculous, in these days of optical drive-less netbooks, that a game that can be fully installed onto a hard disk still requires you to carry around the game disk with you, especially as if that disk gets damaged in transit, you have to pay for a replacement copy.Nowadays, I still game a lot but I either play Open Source/free games or buy them on Good Old Games [htp] where optical disks and DRM are not a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008646</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264947000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looking at the Bioshock 2 page on steampowered mentions no securom (they will usually state any drm).  I do believe that it will have "Games for Windows" but it's there as a matchmaking service. I prefer steam but I understand it's so that people buying a digital copy and the box will be on the same platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking at the Bioshock 2 page on steampowered mentions no securom ( they will usually state any drm ) .
I do believe that it will have " Games for Windows " but it 's there as a matchmaking service .
I prefer steam but I understand it 's so that people buying a digital copy and the box will be on the same platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking at the Bioshock 2 page on steampowered mentions no securom (they will usually state any drm).
I do believe that it will have "Games for Windows" but it's there as a matchmaking service.
I prefer steam but I understand it's so that people buying a digital copy and the box will be on the same platform.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31033266</id>
	<title>The difference between indie and large-scale</title>
	<author>jamyskis</author>
	<datestamp>1265375040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I notice that indie developers tend to have a much more down-to-earth and grounded opinion on matter in the world of gaming, including on the subject of DRM. This is because these developers are often truly passionate gamers themselves and can see from the gamer's perspective how DRM looks and will be approached. They recognise that DRM can only be damaging to a game in the long term (just look at Spore's absolutely appalling secondary sales) and that it does very little to combat piracy.</p><p>Major publishers such as Activision, EA and Ubi Soft, however, take a more financial look at the pros and cons of DRM. For them, DRM is not a moral issue. If they decide not to include DRM, it is to achieve better sales or, most recently, better PR. Has anyone noticed recently how much good coverage a game gets if a game is reported to be without DRM? For example, the fuss that EA made when they announced that Sims 3 would be coming without any kind of DRM beyond a standard disc check? Sins of a Solar Empire? Good Old Games? Prince of Persia? It's like the bio food craze that came about as a result of the media frenzy over genetically modified foods.</p><p>Unfortunately a number of less than honest companies have been jumping on this knowledge - 2KGames (shame on them!) recently announced that BioShock 2 would not be using SecuROM to activate the game. Deceit by omission as it turned out, as it was actually requiring activation by GFWL. Worse still, it turned out later to be an absolute lie as SecuROM still requires the game to be connected to the internet to check the date.</p><p>My view is that DRM does not have a future in gaming, except perhaps in rentals. It's already died its slow death in the music industry, which was the first industry to make heavy use of DRM. There are two types of gamer - those who collect and those who do not. DRM contaminated games are worthless to both, as any gamer will eventually want to sell their game or keep it. DRM makes both impossible. There's a whole craze about Steam at the moment because people have bought into the bullshit that it's the "future" of gaming, but just wait - the problems with blocked and stolen accounts, censorship, violation of free trade agreements and the excessive traffic that Valve has to put up with will eventually kill it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I notice that indie developers tend to have a much more down-to-earth and grounded opinion on matter in the world of gaming , including on the subject of DRM .
This is because these developers are often truly passionate gamers themselves and can see from the gamer 's perspective how DRM looks and will be approached .
They recognise that DRM can only be damaging to a game in the long term ( just look at Spore 's absolutely appalling secondary sales ) and that it does very little to combat piracy.Major publishers such as Activision , EA and Ubi Soft , however , take a more financial look at the pros and cons of DRM .
For them , DRM is not a moral issue .
If they decide not to include DRM , it is to achieve better sales or , most recently , better PR .
Has anyone noticed recently how much good coverage a game gets if a game is reported to be without DRM ?
For example , the fuss that EA made when they announced that Sims 3 would be coming without any kind of DRM beyond a standard disc check ?
Sins of a Solar Empire ?
Good Old Games ?
Prince of Persia ?
It 's like the bio food craze that came about as a result of the media frenzy over genetically modified foods.Unfortunately a number of less than honest companies have been jumping on this knowledge - 2KGames ( shame on them !
) recently announced that BioShock 2 would not be using SecuROM to activate the game .
Deceit by omission as it turned out , as it was actually requiring activation by GFWL .
Worse still , it turned out later to be an absolute lie as SecuROM still requires the game to be connected to the internet to check the date.My view is that DRM does not have a future in gaming , except perhaps in rentals .
It 's already died its slow death in the music industry , which was the first industry to make heavy use of DRM .
There are two types of gamer - those who collect and those who do not .
DRM contaminated games are worthless to both , as any gamer will eventually want to sell their game or keep it .
DRM makes both impossible .
There 's a whole craze about Steam at the moment because people have bought into the bullshit that it 's the " future " of gaming , but just wait - the problems with blocked and stolen accounts , censorship , violation of free trade agreements and the excessive traffic that Valve has to put up with will eventually kill it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I notice that indie developers tend to have a much more down-to-earth and grounded opinion on matter in the world of gaming, including on the subject of DRM.
This is because these developers are often truly passionate gamers themselves and can see from the gamer's perspective how DRM looks and will be approached.
They recognise that DRM can only be damaging to a game in the long term (just look at Spore's absolutely appalling secondary sales) and that it does very little to combat piracy.Major publishers such as Activision, EA and Ubi Soft, however, take a more financial look at the pros and cons of DRM.
For them, DRM is not a moral issue.
If they decide not to include DRM, it is to achieve better sales or, most recently, better PR.
Has anyone noticed recently how much good coverage a game gets if a game is reported to be without DRM?
For example, the fuss that EA made when they announced that Sims 3 would be coming without any kind of DRM beyond a standard disc check?
Sins of a Solar Empire?
Good Old Games?
Prince of Persia?
It's like the bio food craze that came about as a result of the media frenzy over genetically modified foods.Unfortunately a number of less than honest companies have been jumping on this knowledge - 2KGames (shame on them!
) recently announced that BioShock 2 would not be using SecuROM to activate the game.
Deceit by omission as it turned out, as it was actually requiring activation by GFWL.
Worse still, it turned out later to be an absolute lie as SecuROM still requires the game to be connected to the internet to check the date.My view is that DRM does not have a future in gaming, except perhaps in rentals.
It's already died its slow death in the music industry, which was the first industry to make heavy use of DRM.
There are two types of gamer - those who collect and those who do not.
DRM contaminated games are worthless to both, as any gamer will eventually want to sell their game or keep it.
DRM makes both impossible.
There's a whole craze about Steam at the moment because people have bought into the bullshit that it's the "future" of gaming, but just wait - the problems with blocked and stolen accounts, censorship, violation of free trade agreements and the excessive traffic that Valve has to put up with will eventually kill it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31016134</id>
	<title>Re:Someone got it right (at least for old games)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why yes, you do.</p><p>Just a plain old installer. Nothing crazy about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why yes , you do.Just a plain old installer .
Nothing crazy about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why yes, you do.Just a plain old installer.
Nothing crazy about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</id>
	<title>Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Manip</author>
	<datestamp>1264932420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What they should discuss is the negative impact on legitimate customers rather than on piracy...</p><p>For one example, I legally own *two* copies of Red Alert 2 yet I have them both no-CD cracked. Why? Because I don't want to have to go find the CD each time I want to play and worse still the game even supports playing back Audio CD while you play but yet that requires you to juggle the RA2 and Audio CD constantly just to get the damn thing to work!</p><p>The best thing to happen to DRM has been Steam. They have a fairly healthy level of DRM or at least the Valve games do... I hear Bioshock 2 has Steam + "Games for Windows" + SecureRom? What the heck? And an activation limit on Steam?!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Well Steam *used* to be good for consumers before they started letting publishers do whatever the hell they want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What they should discuss is the negative impact on legitimate customers rather than on piracy...For one example , I legally own * two * copies of Red Alert 2 yet I have them both no-CD cracked .
Why ? Because I do n't want to have to go find the CD each time I want to play and worse still the game even supports playing back Audio CD while you play but yet that requires you to juggle the RA2 and Audio CD constantly just to get the damn thing to work ! The best thing to happen to DRM has been Steam .
They have a fairly healthy level of DRM or at least the Valve games do... I hear Bioshock 2 has Steam + " Games for Windows " + SecureRom ?
What the heck ?
And an activation limit on Steam ? !
... Well Steam * used * to be good for consumers before they started letting publishers do whatever the hell they want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What they should discuss is the negative impact on legitimate customers rather than on piracy...For one example, I legally own *two* copies of Red Alert 2 yet I have them both no-CD cracked.
Why? Because I don't want to have to go find the CD each time I want to play and worse still the game even supports playing back Audio CD while you play but yet that requires you to juggle the RA2 and Audio CD constantly just to get the damn thing to work!The best thing to happen to DRM has been Steam.
They have a fairly healthy level of DRM or at least the Valve games do... I hear Bioshock 2 has Steam + "Games for Windows" + SecureRom?
What the heck?
And an activation limit on Steam?!
... Well Steam *used* to be good for consumers before they started letting publishers do whatever the hell they want.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008500</id>
	<title>Re:A dongle-like solution?</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1264945560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hardware usually costs more than software - you're only going to have limited processing power on such a dongle so the likelihood of having to drop out of the nice productive API to program it is pretty high.  Even higher if each dongle has to be essentially re-programmed from scratch for every game (rather than just putting a public key on it).</p><p>The only benefit is that it improves resale value.</p><p>How does that benefit the publisher?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hardware usually costs more than software - you 're only going to have limited processing power on such a dongle so the likelihood of having to drop out of the nice productive API to program it is pretty high .
Even higher if each dongle has to be essentially re-programmed from scratch for every game ( rather than just putting a public key on it ) .The only benefit is that it improves resale value.How does that benefit the publisher ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hardware usually costs more than software - you're only going to have limited processing power on such a dongle so the likelihood of having to drop out of the nice productive API to program it is pretty high.
Even higher if each dongle has to be essentially re-programmed from scratch for every game (rather than just putting a public key on it).The only benefit is that it improves resale value.How does that benefit the publisher?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008996</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264949400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and has already been cracked so you could easily unlock all the content you purchased on your own.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and has already been cracked so you could easily unlock all the content you purchased on your own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and has already been cracked so you could easily unlock all the content you purchased on your own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009126</id>
	<title>Story ranked down?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264950180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because obviously, a story where several people who make games for a living give in-depth views about DRM, is less important than a story where a random blogger writes his thoughts on the subject.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because obviously , a story where several people who make games for a living give in-depth views about DRM , is less important than a story where a random blogger writes his thoughts on the subject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because obviously, a story where several people who make games for a living give in-depth views about DRM, is less important than a story where a random blogger writes his thoughts on the subject.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007548</id>
	<title>In soviet Russia...</title>
	<author>Agent\_\_Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1264933560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The games pirate you...</p><p>Sorry.  Had to be done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The games pirate you...Sorry .
Had to be done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The games pirate you...Sorry.
Had to be done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009470</id>
	<title>Vets?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264952160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Vets?  Seriously?  Someone thought that word is the proper word in this context?  Perhaps "bets", but wow...  I want to say I can't believe someone let that pass, but I can believe it.  Monkeys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vets ?
Seriously ? Someone thought that word is the proper word in this context ?
Perhaps " bets " , but wow... I want to say I ca n't believe someone let that pass , but I can believe it .
Monkeys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vets?
Seriously?  Someone thought that word is the proper word in this context?
Perhaps "bets", but wow...  I want to say I can't believe someone let that pass, but I can believe it.
Monkeys.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31013400</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264968120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's when you look on YouTube for a "Let's Play" video of the game.</p></div><p> <em>Let's Play</em> are mostly annoying, the end.<br>There's usually some pasty-skinned crotch spawn whining over something about the game, drowning out the important audio -- that of the game itself.<br>I especially don't want to watch if you've replaced the game audio with some shitty RIAA-laced muzak.<br>Show me a <em>Let's Play</em> that makes use of subtitles/annotations instead of voiceovers, and I'll be interested.</p><p>I think I've seen one LP that was enjoyable and informative, and that was for <em>Iji</em>. No voiceovers. Proper use of the annotations boxes to explain why a given action was taken.</p><p>Beyond that, I'd rather play than watch someone else try to play.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's when you look on YouTube for a " Let 's Play " video of the game .
Let 's Play are mostly annoying , the end.There 's usually some pasty-skinned crotch spawn whining over something about the game , drowning out the important audio -- that of the game itself.I especially do n't want to watch if you 've replaced the game audio with some shitty RIAA-laced muzak.Show me a Let 's Play that makes use of subtitles/annotations instead of voiceovers , and I 'll be interested.I think I 've seen one LP that was enjoyable and informative , and that was for Iji .
No voiceovers .
Proper use of the annotations boxes to explain why a given action was taken.Beyond that , I 'd rather play than watch someone else try to play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's when you look on YouTube for a "Let's Play" video of the game.
Let's Play are mostly annoying, the end.There's usually some pasty-skinned crotch spawn whining over something about the game, drowning out the important audio -- that of the game itself.I especially don't want to watch if you've replaced the game audio with some shitty RIAA-laced muzak.Show me a Let's Play that makes use of subtitles/annotations instead of voiceovers, and I'll be interested.I think I've seen one LP that was enjoyable and informative, and that was for Iji.
No voiceovers.
Proper use of the annotations boxes to explain why a given action was taken.Beyond that, I'd rather play than watch someone else try to play.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008262</id>
	<title>A dongle-like solution?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264942380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could a dongle-like thing which handles an integral part of the game (e.g. rules or AI characters etc) be used as a way of allowing full functionality only for physical owners? Of course this will cut people out who don't have a serial/parallel/USB port but on the other hand doesn't come with the problems associated with resale.</p><p>Of course, the dongle will be cracked as soon as the game comes out. But make it sufficiently complex (perhaps it could handle some processing?) and cracking could be put off, maybe for long enough for publishers to take notice.</p><p>(Nitpickers: I know that the dongle could have an accumulator, dongles are not in fashion, not all ports are equal, such a solution could be prohibitively expensive in cost or labour and so on. Consider the <i>principle...</i>)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could a dongle-like thing which handles an integral part of the game ( e.g .
rules or AI characters etc ) be used as a way of allowing full functionality only for physical owners ?
Of course this will cut people out who do n't have a serial/parallel/USB port but on the other hand does n't come with the problems associated with resale.Of course , the dongle will be cracked as soon as the game comes out .
But make it sufficiently complex ( perhaps it could handle some processing ?
) and cracking could be put off , maybe for long enough for publishers to take notice .
( Nitpickers : I know that the dongle could have an accumulator , dongles are not in fashion , not all ports are equal , such a solution could be prohibitively expensive in cost or labour and so on .
Consider the principle... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could a dongle-like thing which handles an integral part of the game (e.g.
rules or AI characters etc) be used as a way of allowing full functionality only for physical owners?
Of course this will cut people out who don't have a serial/parallel/USB port but on the other hand doesn't come with the problems associated with resale.Of course, the dongle will be cracked as soon as the game comes out.
But make it sufficiently complex (perhaps it could handle some processing?
) and cracking could be put off, maybe for long enough for publishers to take notice.
(Nitpickers: I know that the dongle could have an accumulator, dongles are not in fashion, not all ports are equal, such a solution could be prohibitively expensive in cost or labour and so on.
Consider the principle...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008780</id>
	<title>Re:Someone got it right (at least for old games)</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1264948020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard GOG mentioned a few times over the past few months.</p><p>So tell me: If I buy a game from GOG, do I get a downloaded installer that I can burn/squirrel away on an external HD/whatever in case I have to reinstall?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard GOG mentioned a few times over the past few months.So tell me : If I buy a game from GOG , do I get a downloaded installer that I can burn/squirrel away on an external HD/whatever in case I have to reinstall ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard GOG mentioned a few times over the past few months.So tell me: If I buy a game from GOG, do I get a downloaded installer that I can burn/squirrel away on an external HD/whatever in case I have to reinstall?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011466</id>
	<title>DRM makes no effect on piracy</title>
	<author>Vexorian</author>
	<datestamp>1264960080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, according to these -biased sources - DRM or the lack thereof does not change piracy rates. It is strange that the conclussion from such find is to continue doing it. If DRM does no effect whatsoever there is no point in adding it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , according to these -biased sources - DRM or the lack thereof does not change piracy rates .
It is strange that the conclussion from such find is to continue doing it .
If DRM does no effect whatsoever there is no point in adding it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, according to these -biased sources - DRM or the lack thereof does not change piracy rates.
It is strange that the conclussion from such find is to continue doing it.
If DRM does no effect whatsoever there is no point in adding it...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31013176</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers - Avoid THQ, Steam, Live</title>
	<author>nevermore94</author>
	<datestamp>1264967280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have never really minded game copy protection too much, until recently.  I got a new game for Christmas (Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War II by THQ) and finally decided to install and play it a couple of weeks ago.  It took over and hour and half and 5 GBs on my hard drive before I was finally able to play and by then I had about lost interest.<br> <br>
First it had to install Steam on my computer and I had to go out and create an account for that.<br>
Then it had to install 4+ GBs of game on my computer which took about 20 mins, why don't games give the option of using content from the DVD anymore?<br>
Then Steam had to download a bunch of updates before it would let me play, about 40 more minutes.<br>
Then once I finally got the game started Games for Windows/Windows Live made me create a login which failed repeatedly from inside the game so I had to exit and do it from a web browser.  More time wasted.<br>
Then, after I got back in to the game and logged in to Windows Live and then told me I needed an update for that. But then, it failed to download the update, and refused to let me play the game without it.  After searching around in forums and FAQs I found that I had to download a Windows Hotfix for XP to provide some download ability that Vista comes with by default.  Finally, after manually installing a Hotfix and rebooting and installing the Windows Live update, after another half hour or so, it let me play.<br> <br>
After all of that, I barely wanted to play, I tried one quick level and called it a day.  This is not even to mention all of the new processes like Steam that I had running even after a reboot (which I proceeded to clean up).  All in all, I think I will be avoiding anything that uses Steam or Windows Live in the future.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never really minded game copy protection too much , until recently .
I got a new game for Christmas ( Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War II by THQ ) and finally decided to install and play it a couple of weeks ago .
It took over and hour and half and 5 GBs on my hard drive before I was finally able to play and by then I had about lost interest .
First it had to install Steam on my computer and I had to go out and create an account for that .
Then it had to install 4 + GBs of game on my computer which took about 20 mins , why do n't games give the option of using content from the DVD anymore ?
Then Steam had to download a bunch of updates before it would let me play , about 40 more minutes .
Then once I finally got the game started Games for Windows/Windows Live made me create a login which failed repeatedly from inside the game so I had to exit and do it from a web browser .
More time wasted .
Then , after I got back in to the game and logged in to Windows Live and then told me I needed an update for that .
But then , it failed to download the update , and refused to let me play the game without it .
After searching around in forums and FAQs I found that I had to download a Windows Hotfix for XP to provide some download ability that Vista comes with by default .
Finally , after manually installing a Hotfix and rebooting and installing the Windows Live update , after another half hour or so , it let me play .
After all of that , I barely wanted to play , I tried one quick level and called it a day .
This is not even to mention all of the new processes like Steam that I had running even after a reboot ( which I proceeded to clean up ) .
All in all , I think I will be avoiding anything that uses Steam or Windows Live in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never really minded game copy protection too much, until recently.
I got a new game for Christmas (Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War II by THQ) and finally decided to install and play it a couple of weeks ago.
It took over and hour and half and 5 GBs on my hard drive before I was finally able to play and by then I had about lost interest.
First it had to install Steam on my computer and I had to go out and create an account for that.
Then it had to install 4+ GBs of game on my computer which took about 20 mins, why don't games give the option of using content from the DVD anymore?
Then Steam had to download a bunch of updates before it would let me play, about 40 more minutes.
Then once I finally got the game started Games for Windows/Windows Live made me create a login which failed repeatedly from inside the game so I had to exit and do it from a web browser.
More time wasted.
Then, after I got back in to the game and logged in to Windows Live and then told me I needed an update for that.
But then, it failed to download the update, and refused to let me play the game without it.
After searching around in forums and FAQs I found that I had to download a Windows Hotfix for XP to provide some download ability that Vista comes with by default.
Finally, after manually installing a Hotfix and rebooting and installing the Windows Live update, after another half hour or so, it let me play.
After all of that, I barely wanted to play, I tried one quick level and called it a day.
This is not even to mention all of the new processes like Steam that I had running even after a reboot (which I proceeded to clean up).
All in all, I think I will be avoiding anything that uses Steam or Windows Live in the future.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009960</id>
	<title>I, personally, ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264954080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... thank the pirates for the no-CD/DVD cracks as I'm damned well not going to carry around a pile of CD/DVDs just so I can play a damned game that I bought while travelling.</p><p>Internet access required is even worse as I regularly visit locations where there is NO internet access, so I guess that Ubisoft lost a customer although I can't really think of any MUST-REALLY-GOTTA-HAVE-IT Ubisoft games coming up anyways.  Always REQUIRING internet access and cloud saving is a VERY VERY bad idea.  The ability to play w/o internet access would be MUCH less onerous, and I don't see the value in cloud saving UNLESS they ALSO have plans to eventually remove the internet access AND cloud saving requirement ow you're just temporarily renting the game until they decided to end support for it.  i.e. How many of you still play old games, say Planescape Torment?  Now Interplay is long gone, so how would you feel about not being able to play that game because it wanted to talk to some server about starting up and then again when you wanted to save.  Not to mention games that have game save bugs that 3rd party tools fix if the dev is unwilling or slow to release a fix plus would Ubisoft really go fix your saved games for you or would they just pile more cruft on the "client", which is what this really is.  It's an MMO, but not really.  It has all the baggage of one, yet not the dubious value of one plus I can see their next move, charge for save slots, etc. on a monthly basis.</p><p>And then there are the companies, e.g. Egosoft that historically have removed copy-protection from their games(X2, X3: Reunion, X3: Terran Conflict) amongst other, in which case I, generally, wait to install and play the game until they have released their CP removal patch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... thank the pirates for the no-CD/DVD cracks as I 'm damned well not going to carry around a pile of CD/DVDs just so I can play a damned game that I bought while travelling.Internet access required is even worse as I regularly visit locations where there is NO internet access , so I guess that Ubisoft lost a customer although I ca n't really think of any MUST-REALLY-GOT TA-HAVE-IT Ubisoft games coming up anyways .
Always REQUIRING internet access and cloud saving is a VERY VERY bad idea .
The ability to play w/o internet access would be MUCH less onerous , and I do n't see the value in cloud saving UNLESS they ALSO have plans to eventually remove the internet access AND cloud saving requirement ow you 're just temporarily renting the game until they decided to end support for it .
i.e. How many of you still play old games , say Planescape Torment ?
Now Interplay is long gone , so how would you feel about not being able to play that game because it wanted to talk to some server about starting up and then again when you wanted to save .
Not to mention games that have game save bugs that 3rd party tools fix if the dev is unwilling or slow to release a fix plus would Ubisoft really go fix your saved games for you or would they just pile more cruft on the " client " , which is what this really is .
It 's an MMO , but not really .
It has all the baggage of one , yet not the dubious value of one plus I can see their next move , charge for save slots , etc .
on a monthly basis.And then there are the companies , e.g .
Egosoft that historically have removed copy-protection from their games ( X2 , X3 : Reunion , X3 : Terran Conflict ) amongst other , in which case I , generally , wait to install and play the game until they have released their CP removal patch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... thank the pirates for the no-CD/DVD cracks as I'm damned well not going to carry around a pile of CD/DVDs just so I can play a damned game that I bought while travelling.Internet access required is even worse as I regularly visit locations where there is NO internet access, so I guess that Ubisoft lost a customer although I can't really think of any MUST-REALLY-GOTTA-HAVE-IT Ubisoft games coming up anyways.
Always REQUIRING internet access and cloud saving is a VERY VERY bad idea.
The ability to play w/o internet access would be MUCH less onerous, and I don't see the value in cloud saving UNLESS they ALSO have plans to eventually remove the internet access AND cloud saving requirement ow you're just temporarily renting the game until they decided to end support for it.
i.e. How many of you still play old games, say Planescape Torment?
Now Interplay is long gone, so how would you feel about not being able to play that game because it wanted to talk to some server about starting up and then again when you wanted to save.
Not to mention games that have game save bugs that 3rd party tools fix if the dev is unwilling or slow to release a fix plus would Ubisoft really go fix your saved games for you or would they just pile more cruft on the "client", which is what this really is.
It's an MMO, but not really.
It has all the baggage of one, yet not the dubious value of one plus I can see their next move, charge for save slots, etc.
on a monthly basis.And then there are the companies, e.g.
Egosoft that historically have removed copy-protection from their games(X2, X3: Reunion, X3: Terran Conflict) amongst other, in which case I, generally, wait to install and play the game until they have released their CP removal patch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009938</id>
	<title>Re:Someone got it right (at least for old games)</title>
	<author>quadrox</author>
	<datestamp>1264954020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for pointing this out, finally a place where I can get those games still missing from my collection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for pointing this out , finally a place where I can get those games still missing from my collection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for pointing this out, finally a place where I can get those games still missing from my collection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007928</id>
	<title>Re:Ubisoft</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1264938240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Give it a week, and some enterprising fellow more intelligent than me will have a local emulator for the authentication server and an entry to add to your HOSTS file.<br> <br>Or, just strip the offending code out of the executable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give it a week , and some enterprising fellow more intelligent than me will have a local emulator for the authentication server and an entry to add to your HOSTS file .
Or , just strip the offending code out of the executable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give it a week, and some enterprising fellow more intelligent than me will have a local emulator for the authentication server and an entry to add to your HOSTS file.
Or, just strip the offending code out of the executable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007468</id>
	<title>Games should come with a DRM warning on the box</title>
	<author>initialE</author>
	<datestamp>1264932600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality, and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine"</p><p>It's true enough, and worse is that they are not going to be responsible for restoring your system if it does in fact get hosed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality , and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine " It 's true enough , and worse is that they are not going to be responsible for restoring your system if it does in fact get hosed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality, and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine"It's true enough, and worse is that they are not going to be responsible for restoring your system if it does in fact get hosed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31021558</id>
	<title>most games are crap or not novel, same as music</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265295120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the problem with games is that they are often shit or same-ol', same-ol' , so people don't want to shell out for them until they've tried it. It's the same with music.<br>I download music for free, and listen to it. more than 95\% of it is shit. the good stuff, I end up buying eventually.<br>As for the second-hand games issue, well people dont want to buy something that they see as being worthless after the purchase. So if you DRM your shit so that it has no value when customer tries to sell it, you've just gone and reduced it's value when you try to sell it (although you will refute that of course, and there are some stupid customers who are still willing to pay for it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the problem with games is that they are often shit or same-ol ' , same-ol ' , so people do n't want to shell out for them until they 've tried it .
It 's the same with music.I download music for free , and listen to it .
more than 95 \ % of it is shit .
the good stuff , I end up buying eventually.As for the second-hand games issue , well people dont want to buy something that they see as being worthless after the purchase .
So if you DRM your shit so that it has no value when customer tries to sell it , you 've just gone and reduced it 's value when you try to sell it ( although you will refute that of course , and there are some stupid customers who are still willing to pay for it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the problem with games is that they are often shit or same-ol', same-ol' , so people don't want to shell out for them until they've tried it.
It's the same with music.I download music for free, and listen to it.
more than 95\% of it is shit.
the good stuff, I end up buying eventually.As for the second-hand games issue, well people dont want to buy something that they see as being worthless after the purchase.
So if you DRM your shit so that it has no value when customer tries to sell it, you've just gone and reduced it's value when you try to sell it (although you will refute that of course, and there are some stupid customers who are still willing to pay for it).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>El\_Muerte\_TDS</author>
	<datestamp>1264934640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Steam was never good for customers. It was just less bad than various other solutions. Steam just makes up for some of it's customer limitations. But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Steam was never good for customers .
It was just less bad than various other solutions .
Steam just makes up for some of it 's customer limitations .
But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steam was never good for customers.
It was just less bad than various other solutions.
Steam just makes up for some of it's customer limitations.
But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009684</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Thoreauly Nuts</author>
	<datestamp>1264953060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x, and never before have we gamers been treated so badly, charged so much for substandard fare, and generally spit upon for daring to pay good money</p></div><p>I've been gaming since the Apple II came out and you missed an age when it was just as bad. The pre Win3.1 era was loaded with even more annoying and intrusive DRM. Not only were the floppies copy protected, but you had all sorts of in-box DRM such as code-wheels, having to type words in from the manual and other game-stopping, annoying BS.</p><p>The games were also more expensive when you adjust for inflation and often had horrible game design flaws like dead-ends in them. Get stuck? Sorry, no Internet. You can call an outrageously priced hint-line though...</p><p>The CD-Rom is what made the PC platform playable again. Developers got rid of all the annoying DRM until about late 1999 and then the 00s became the new 80s, with shitty value and annoying DRM coming back into the scene.</p><p>Strangely enough, I didn't pirate in the 90s, but pirated like crazy in the 80s and 00s. Perhaps there is a correlation?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x , and never before have we gamers been treated so badly , charged so much for substandard fare , and generally spit upon for daring to pay good moneyI 've been gaming since the Apple II came out and you missed an age when it was just as bad .
The pre Win3.1 era was loaded with even more annoying and intrusive DRM .
Not only were the floppies copy protected , but you had all sorts of in-box DRM such as code-wheels , having to type words in from the manual and other game-stopping , annoying BS.The games were also more expensive when you adjust for inflation and often had horrible game design flaws like dead-ends in them .
Get stuck ?
Sorry , no Internet .
You can call an outrageously priced hint-line though...The CD-Rom is what made the PC platform playable again .
Developers got rid of all the annoying DRM until about late 1999 and then the 00s became the new 80s , with shitty value and annoying DRM coming back into the scene.Strangely enough , I did n't pirate in the 90s , but pirated like crazy in the 80s and 00s .
Perhaps there is a correlation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x, and never before have we gamers been treated so badly, charged so much for substandard fare, and generally spit upon for daring to pay good moneyI've been gaming since the Apple II came out and you missed an age when it was just as bad.
The pre Win3.1 era was loaded with even more annoying and intrusive DRM.
Not only were the floppies copy protected, but you had all sorts of in-box DRM such as code-wheels, having to type words in from the manual and other game-stopping, annoying BS.The games were also more expensive when you adjust for inflation and often had horrible game design flaws like dead-ends in them.
Get stuck?
Sorry, no Internet.
You can call an outrageously priced hint-line though...The CD-Rom is what made the PC platform playable again.
Developers got rid of all the annoying DRM until about late 1999 and then the 00s became the new 80s, with shitty value and annoying DRM coming back into the scene.Strangely enough, I didn't pirate in the 90s, but pirated like crazy in the 80s and 00s.
Perhaps there is a correlation?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009756</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1264953300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The thing that worries me about Steam and many of these other schemes is what I prefer to call the "Circuit City factor." That is to say, I am very reluctant to purchase a game that will disappear from my library the second the publisher either goes out of business or shuts down their servers. That's why I've gotten more into console games in recent years. At least most of those are still "Pop in and play," whereas it seems more and more PC games have moved to the "Verify that it's okay with some distant server, THEN you can play" model. I want a library that I actually own, not one that I'm just renting until the company decides it doesn't feel like running their authentication server anymore.
</p><p>
And BTW, my Circuit City analogy actually predates them going out of business as a company. It goes back to their ill-fated (thank god) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX\_(Digital\_Video\_Express)" title="wikipedia.org">Divx scheme</a> [wikipedia.org]. All these people bought those Divx discs thinking they would be able to watch them anytime (some even made their discs "silver," so they "owned" them)--only to find out later than Circuit City had shut the service down and turned every single Divx disc into a coaster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing that worries me about Steam and many of these other schemes is what I prefer to call the " Circuit City factor .
" That is to say , I am very reluctant to purchase a game that will disappear from my library the second the publisher either goes out of business or shuts down their servers .
That 's why I 've gotten more into console games in recent years .
At least most of those are still " Pop in and play , " whereas it seems more and more PC games have moved to the " Verify that it 's okay with some distant server , THEN you can play " model .
I want a library that I actually own , not one that I 'm just renting until the company decides it does n't feel like running their authentication server anymore .
And BTW , my Circuit City analogy actually predates them going out of business as a company .
It goes back to their ill-fated ( thank god ) Divx scheme [ wikipedia.org ] .
All these people bought those Divx discs thinking they would be able to watch them anytime ( some even made their discs " silver , " so they " owned " them ) --only to find out later than Circuit City had shut the service down and turned every single Divx disc into a coaster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing that worries me about Steam and many of these other schemes is what I prefer to call the "Circuit City factor.
" That is to say, I am very reluctant to purchase a game that will disappear from my library the second the publisher either goes out of business or shuts down their servers.
That's why I've gotten more into console games in recent years.
At least most of those are still "Pop in and play," whereas it seems more and more PC games have moved to the "Verify that it's okay with some distant server, THEN you can play" model.
I want a library that I actually own, not one that I'm just renting until the company decides it doesn't feel like running their authentication server anymore.
And BTW, my Circuit City analogy actually predates them going out of business as a company.
It goes back to their ill-fated (thank god) Divx scheme [wikipedia.org].
All these people bought those Divx discs thinking they would be able to watch them anytime (some even made their discs "silver," so they "owned" them)--only to find out later than Circuit City had shut the service down and turned every single Divx disc into a coaster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31063642</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265660760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once you're in offline mode, Steam itself doesn't care, and will let you run any game you've downloaded forever. Or for at least 2 years, which is how long one of my laptops has been in offline mode.</p><p>That said, some newer games (mostly made by THQ or EA) require you to have an active Internet connection to run them, or in the case of UT3, if you want to save your game you need an active Internet connection and an account on the UT3 servers. If the company behind Steam had some balls, they'd make these shitty game companies use the Steam drm and Steam cloud services, and none of this would be an issue. Steam works incredibly well however, and I'd highly recommend it. I find it easier to buy something off of Steam than to pirate it, as I just click and it auto-installs games. Plus, I trust that the games I download via Steam won't have additional malware in them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once you 're in offline mode , Steam itself does n't care , and will let you run any game you 've downloaded forever .
Or for at least 2 years , which is how long one of my laptops has been in offline mode.That said , some newer games ( mostly made by THQ or EA ) require you to have an active Internet connection to run them , or in the case of UT3 , if you want to save your game you need an active Internet connection and an account on the UT3 servers .
If the company behind Steam had some balls , they 'd make these shitty game companies use the Steam drm and Steam cloud services , and none of this would be an issue .
Steam works incredibly well however , and I 'd highly recommend it .
I find it easier to buy something off of Steam than to pirate it , as I just click and it auto-installs games .
Plus , I trust that the games I download via Steam wo n't have additional malware in them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once you're in offline mode, Steam itself doesn't care, and will let you run any game you've downloaded forever.
Or for at least 2 years, which is how long one of my laptops has been in offline mode.That said, some newer games (mostly made by THQ or EA) require you to have an active Internet connection to run them, or in the case of UT3, if you want to save your game you need an active Internet connection and an account on the UT3 servers.
If the company behind Steam had some balls, they'd make these shitty game companies use the Steam drm and Steam cloud services, and none of this would be an issue.
Steam works incredibly well however, and I'd highly recommend it.
I find it easier to buy something off of Steam than to pirate it, as I just click and it auto-installs games.
Plus, I trust that the games I download via Steam won't have additional malware in them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007948</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>wonder what they will do to counter "ad-block software for their in-game advertising"..</p><p>or will 'hackers' (lol) remove/replace the in-game advertisements then we will be right back here with people saying that is wrong and the other side saying well "i paid for the damn game why cant i remove stuff in my own game"... ah its possible. Bots that hi-jack the games way of updating their ads and replace them with new ads....</p><p>The first time I used something to defeat copy protection it was not for piracy, it was so I didnt have to turn to page 21 and type in the 4th word on the bla bla every time I started the game (think 286 floppy era games).. I saw what the cracks could do (for the very first time) and never looked back much. A couple times I went to go buy something to find out it was either pirate it or wait X days/weeks/months till I could buy it... I pirated it. I will next time too... Im not saying im in the right im just saying how it is..</p><p>I bought countless terrible games (pre internet) to find out I wasted my money.. I see I can pirate it typically a week or two earlier than I can buy it. I don't have to get off my ass to go buy it. I tried to make a point to pay for the smaller company programs I used.. I now have at least 2 programs that I have installed too many times so I can either call them or use a keygen/crack..</p><p>I think the problem is I see almost no benefit in paying for virtually any software, music, movie, etc. The pirated product is superior... If the publishers want to post how much they actually loose and have a paypal for me to reimburse them I might do that.. whats funny is I would.. lol..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>wonder what they will do to counter " ad-block software for their in-game advertising " ..or will 'hackers ' ( lol ) remove/replace the in-game advertisements then we will be right back here with people saying that is wrong and the other side saying well " i paid for the damn game why cant i remove stuff in my own game " ... ah its possible .
Bots that hi-jack the games way of updating their ads and replace them with new ads....The first time I used something to defeat copy protection it was not for piracy , it was so I didnt have to turn to page 21 and type in the 4th word on the bla bla every time I started the game ( think 286 floppy era games ) .. I saw what the cracks could do ( for the very first time ) and never looked back much .
A couple times I went to go buy something to find out it was either pirate it or wait X days/weeks/months till I could buy it... I pirated it .
I will next time too... Im not saying im in the right im just saying how it is..I bought countless terrible games ( pre internet ) to find out I wasted my money.. I see I can pirate it typically a week or two earlier than I can buy it .
I do n't have to get off my ass to go buy it .
I tried to make a point to pay for the smaller company programs I used.. I now have at least 2 programs that I have installed too many times so I can either call them or use a keygen/crack..I think the problem is I see almost no benefit in paying for virtually any software , music , movie , etc .
The pirated product is superior... If the publishers want to post how much they actually loose and have a paypal for me to reimburse them I might do that.. whats funny is I would.. lol. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wonder what they will do to counter "ad-block software for their in-game advertising"..or will 'hackers' (lol) remove/replace the in-game advertisements then we will be right back here with people saying that is wrong and the other side saying well "i paid for the damn game why cant i remove stuff in my own game"... ah its possible.
Bots that hi-jack the games way of updating their ads and replace them with new ads....The first time I used something to defeat copy protection it was not for piracy, it was so I didnt have to turn to page 21 and type in the 4th word on the bla bla every time I started the game (think 286 floppy era games).. I saw what the cracks could do (for the very first time) and never looked back much.
A couple times I went to go buy something to find out it was either pirate it or wait X days/weeks/months till I could buy it... I pirated it.
I will next time too... Im not saying im in the right im just saying how it is..I bought countless terrible games (pre internet) to find out I wasted my money.. I see I can pirate it typically a week or two earlier than I can buy it.
I don't have to get off my ass to go buy it.
I tried to make a point to pay for the smaller company programs I used.. I now have at least 2 programs that I have installed too many times so I can either call them or use a keygen/crack..I think the problem is I see almost no benefit in paying for virtually any software, music, movie, etc.
The pirated product is superior... If the publishers want to post how much they actually loose and have a paypal for me to reimburse them I might do that.. whats funny is I would.. lol..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009040</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264949640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you are confused. <br> <br>
There was a nice article someplace about how when DRM was removed from e-books sales went up. We're tired of being locked down and inconvenienced when we take the legal option. We're even more tired of DRM scheme breaking the functionality of our systems. The guy you are calling a leech buys games. He's more prone to buying them when the price is right and they are void of DRM.<br> <br>
And it is those people who are willing to pay whom you must please. Price, quality, and it's potential to hurt your machine are all logical things to look at when making a purchase. <br> <br>
There are some DRM scheme that offer the end user some advantages. Steam is a good example. No need to have a physical copy cluttering up your space. Great deliver mechanism. Game stats saved on the server. The draw backs (having to be connected to the webz, no server side saves, 3rd party DRM can ruin the experience, etc..) are acceptable to many. Even die hard "I never pay for anything" pirates purchase games on steam. The WII store is another example of DRM done well. The ability to browse titles conveniently and buy them right then is what the consume wants.<br> <br>
The industry has to embrace the idea that they need to make it as convenient as possible for consumers to pay for their products, treat them with respect, and not cripple their systems. Music and movies are readily available illegally on the internet, yet Itunes, Rhapsody, Netflicks, and the like are making a tone of dough by making it easier to buy it than to pirate it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you are confused .
There was a nice article someplace about how when DRM was removed from e-books sales went up .
We 're tired of being locked down and inconvenienced when we take the legal option .
We 're even more tired of DRM scheme breaking the functionality of our systems .
The guy you are calling a leech buys games .
He 's more prone to buying them when the price is right and they are void of DRM .
And it is those people who are willing to pay whom you must please .
Price , quality , and it 's potential to hurt your machine are all logical things to look at when making a purchase .
There are some DRM scheme that offer the end user some advantages .
Steam is a good example .
No need to have a physical copy cluttering up your space .
Great deliver mechanism .
Game stats saved on the server .
The draw backs ( having to be connected to the webz , no server side saves , 3rd party DRM can ruin the experience , etc.. ) are acceptable to many .
Even die hard " I never pay for anything " pirates purchase games on steam .
The WII store is another example of DRM done well .
The ability to browse titles conveniently and buy them right then is what the consume wants .
The industry has to embrace the idea that they need to make it as convenient as possible for consumers to pay for their products , treat them with respect , and not cripple their systems .
Music and movies are readily available illegally on the internet , yet Itunes , Rhapsody , Netflicks , and the like are making a tone of dough by making it easier to buy it than to pirate it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you are confused.
There was a nice article someplace about how when DRM was removed from e-books sales went up.
We're tired of being locked down and inconvenienced when we take the legal option.
We're even more tired of DRM scheme breaking the functionality of our systems.
The guy you are calling a leech buys games.
He's more prone to buying them when the price is right and they are void of DRM.
And it is those people who are willing to pay whom you must please.
Price, quality, and it's potential to hurt your machine are all logical things to look at when making a purchase.
There are some DRM scheme that offer the end user some advantages.
Steam is a good example.
No need to have a physical copy cluttering up your space.
Great deliver mechanism.
Game stats saved on the server.
The draw backs (having to be connected to the webz, no server side saves, 3rd party DRM can ruin the experience, etc..) are acceptable to many.
Even die hard "I never pay for anything" pirates purchase games on steam.
The WII store is another example of DRM done well.
The ability to browse titles conveniently and buy them right then is what the consume wants.
The industry has to embrace the idea that they need to make it as convenient as possible for consumers to pay for their products, treat them with respect, and not cripple their systems.
Music and movies are readily available illegally on the internet, yet Itunes, Rhapsody, Netflicks, and the like are making a tone of dough by making it easier to buy it than to pirate it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31013856</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>kalirion</author>
	<datestamp>1264970460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses. If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times. I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.</i></p><p>Considering how many games use SecuROM, and that SafeDisc <i>is actually part of the Windows XP installation</i>, how do gamers have any optical drives left?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses .
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together , or either of those with any other like SafeDisc , well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly , because you will be getting a taste of those times .
I ca n't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were " dirty evil filthy pirates " for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.Considering how many games use SecuROM , and that SafeDisc is actually part of the Windows XP installation , how do gamers have any optical drives left ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses.
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times.
I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.Considering how many games use SecuROM, and that SafeDisc is actually part of the Windows XP installation, how do gamers have any optical drives left?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008314</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1264943100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Steam was never good for customers"</p><p>I'd have to disagree, steam has been driving the price of games steadily downward.  They have frequent sales, many digitial distribution sites and gaming news sites have had special deals on games.  I got demigod for $8 and bought SF4 for roughly the same amount on sale off of steam.</p><p>The free market at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Steam was never good for customers " I 'd have to disagree , steam has been driving the price of games steadily downward .
They have frequent sales , many digitial distribution sites and gaming news sites have had special deals on games .
I got demigod for $ 8 and bought SF4 for roughly the same amount on sale off of steam.The free market at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Steam was never good for customers"I'd have to disagree, steam has been driving the price of games steadily downward.
They have frequent sales, many digitial distribution sites and gaming news sites have had special deals on games.
I got demigod for $8 and bought SF4 for roughly the same amount on sale off of steam.The free market at work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009868</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1264953720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gonna treat me like I'm using an x360?</p></div><p>They treat you <em>worse</em> than an Xbox 360 owner. At least Xbox 360 games are likely to give you the option of hooking the console up to a big screen TV and using one gamepad per player. But apart from <i>Left 4 Dead</i> and EA Sports games, most PC games don't anticipate use with a TV.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gon na treat me like I 'm using an x360 ? They treat you worse than an Xbox 360 owner .
At least Xbox 360 games are likely to give you the option of hooking the console up to a big screen TV and using one gamepad per player .
But apart from Left 4 Dead and EA Sports games , most PC games do n't anticipate use with a TV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gonna treat me like I'm using an x360?They treat you worse than an Xbox 360 owner.
At least Xbox 360 games are likely to give you the option of hooking the console up to a big screen TV and using one gamepad per player.
But apart from Left 4 Dead and EA Sports games, most PC games don't anticipate use with a TV.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007988</id>
	<title>No evidence of drm affecting sales?</title>
	<author>agentc0re</author>
	<datestamp>1264939020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well no shit.  Last time i check the population is growing, not at a standstill or decline.  So us older folks who grew up in a non DRM gaming environment to what we have now are the ones that avoid that shit with a plague unlike our younger counter parts who most of which probably have no clue what DRM is.  If they do, they don't give a shit, they're having fun playing their game one way or another.  It wasn't their money if they bought it and they become a "rebel" once they hack it and have bragging rights to their friends to sound uber cool!</p><p>However, this doesn't justify DRM's methods of preventing piracy.  I think this guy has it right:  <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how\_anti\_piracy\_screws\_over\_people\_who\_buy\_pc\_games/" title="metacafe.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how\_anti\_piracy\_screws\_over\_people\_who\_buy\_pc\_games/</a> [metacafe.com]<br>Enjoy!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well no shit .
Last time i check the population is growing , not at a standstill or decline .
So us older folks who grew up in a non DRM gaming environment to what we have now are the ones that avoid that shit with a plague unlike our younger counter parts who most of which probably have no clue what DRM is .
If they do , they do n't give a shit , they 're having fun playing their game one way or another .
It was n't their money if they bought it and they become a " rebel " once they hack it and have bragging rights to their friends to sound uber cool ! However , this does n't justify DRM 's methods of preventing piracy .
I think this guy has it right : http : //www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how \ _anti \ _piracy \ _screws \ _over \ _people \ _who \ _buy \ _pc \ _games/ [ metacafe.com ] Enjoy !
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well no shit.
Last time i check the population is growing, not at a standstill or decline.
So us older folks who grew up in a non DRM gaming environment to what we have now are the ones that avoid that shit with a plague unlike our younger counter parts who most of which probably have no clue what DRM is.
If they do, they don't give a shit, they're having fun playing their game one way or another.
It wasn't their money if they bought it and they become a "rebel" once they hack it and have bragging rights to their friends to sound uber cool!However, this doesn't justify DRM's methods of preventing piracy.
I think this guy has it right:  http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how\_anti\_piracy\_screws\_over\_people\_who\_buy\_pc\_games/ [metacafe.com]Enjoy!
:D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007938</id>
	<title>If more DRM = More Sales, lock the game down hard</title>
	<author>mykos</author>
	<datestamp>1264938300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code.  Don't let the user even play the full game.  Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.</p><p>Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.</p><p>It will sell trillions of copies!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code .
Do n't let the user even play the full game .
Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.It will sell trillions of copies !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code.
Don't let the user even play the full game.
Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.It will sell trillions of copies!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007598</id>
	<title>whoever plays games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264934280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>is a stupid tard and deserves every form of DRM the 'industry' is throwing at him and his shit-eating monkey friends.</p><p>stop playing stupid games - become productive and do some coding!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is a stupid tard and deserves every form of DRM the 'industry ' is throwing at him and his shit-eating monkey friends.stop playing stupid games - become productive and do some coding !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is a stupid tard and deserves every form of DRM the 'industry' is throwing at him and his shit-eating monkey friends.stop playing stupid games - become productive and do some coding!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008328</id>
	<title>you have to wait?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264943220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell I beat mass effect 2  before it hit the store shelves.  Sad that  we've gone from worrying about virii in the pirated 0 day releases  to worrying about the legal copys DRM screwing things up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell I beat mass effect 2 before it hit the store shelves .
Sad that we 've gone from worrying about virii in the pirated 0 day releases to worrying about the legal copys DRM screwing things up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell I beat mass effect 2  before it hit the store shelves.
Sad that  we've gone from worrying about virii in the pirated 0 day releases  to worrying about the legal copys DRM screwing things up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008912</id>
	<title>"DRM-free" and "cracked"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264948860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is all great, and I'm glad some developers are coming to these realizations. However, I have one irk about the wording in the article:</p><p>"It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway."</p><p>He mentions "DRM-free", and then says it will be "cracked". If it's DRM-free there is no cracking involved. It's just distribution at that point. Otherwise it's not DRM-free.</p><p>Just a little pet-peeve of mine thats all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is all great , and I 'm glad some developers are coming to these realizations .
However , I have one irk about the wording in the article : " It seems any game , even if it 's $ 0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend , will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway .
" He mentions " DRM-free " , and then says it will be " cracked " .
If it 's DRM-free there is no cracking involved .
It 's just distribution at that point .
Otherwise it 's not DRM-free.Just a little pet-peeve of mine thats all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is all great, and I'm glad some developers are coming to these realizations.
However, I have one irk about the wording in the article:"It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway.
"He mentions "DRM-free", and then says it will be "cracked".
If it's DRM-free there is no cracking involved.
It's just distribution at that point.
Otherwise it's not DRM-free.Just a little pet-peeve of mine thats all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</id>
	<title>Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From summary:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact.</p></div><p>That was an argument <i>FOR</i> using DRM?</p><p>"I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters, it only cost me $ton\_of\_money annually, and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something. Now, the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock, so I see no reason to stop using it."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From summary : Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he did n't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games , accepting it as an unavoidable fact.That was an argument FOR using DRM ?
" I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters , it only cost me $ ton \ _of \ _money annually , and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something .
Now , the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock , so I see no reason to stop using it .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From summary:Cliff Harris of Positech Games said he didn't think his decision to stop using DRM significantly affected piracy of his games, accepting it as an unavoidable fact.That was an argument FOR using DRM?
"I have a rock that keeps away shoplifters, it only cost me $ton\_of\_money annually, and I use it to knock customers on their head every time they buy something.
Now, the rate of shoplifting is the same both with and without the rock, so I see no reason to stop using it.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009220</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>schon</author>
	<datestamp>1264950720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM doesn't work!</p></div><p>Umm - if you need to download cracked versions, then it would seem that the DRM is working perfectly fine.</p><p>The <i>entire point</i> of DRM is to prevent people from playing the game.  Since it's preventing you from playing, then it's obviously working.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM does n't work ! Umm - if you need to download cracked versions , then it would seem that the DRM is working perfectly fine.The entire point of DRM is to prevent people from playing the game .
Since it 's preventing you from playing , then it 's obviously working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM doesn't work!Umm - if you need to download cracked versions, then it would seem that the DRM is working perfectly fine.The entire point of DRM is to prevent people from playing the game.
Since it's preventing you from playing, then it's obviously working.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009544</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264952460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The more obvious conclusion is that DRM was never really intended to stop piracy at all, except in some cases where it is actually effective in stopping pre-release piracy.</p><p>It's there to stop lending, casual copying, backups and resale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The more obvious conclusion is that DRM was never really intended to stop piracy at all , except in some cases where it is actually effective in stopping pre-release piracy.It 's there to stop lending , casual copying , backups and resale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The more obvious conclusion is that DRM was never really intended to stop piracy at all, except in some cases where it is actually effective in stopping pre-release piracy.It's there to stop lending, casual copying, backups and resale.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011238</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1264959300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He also talks about "cracking" games that have no DRM.  I don't think we're dealing with a rocket surgeon here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He also talks about " cracking " games that have no DRM .
I do n't think we 're dealing with a rocket surgeon here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He also talks about "cracking" games that have no DRM.
I don't think we're dealing with a rocket surgeon here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008304</id>
	<title>Re:Ubisoft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264942920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Steam isn't my favorite, but at least it doesn't force a constant connection to the publisher's servers to play a game!"</p><p>That's true.  But I've still had it crap out with errors, fail to connect to servers, and otherwise unjustifiably complain when I'm trying to play a game.   The inconvenience is fairly uncommon (it usually works properly), but it does slow down the game load every time and it is more annoying when problems occur.  I don't like it.  The only reason I finally took the plunge was when I could buy Orange Box used for $20, years after the original release.  I'll certainly never play full price for that kind of inconvenience.</p><p>Oh, and another thing.  I bought a second copy of Orange Box so that I could have two installs on my local home network.  No go.  Apparently I <a href="https://support.steampowered.com/kb\_cat.php?id=75&amp;t=qanda#4217-WERS-3558" title="steampowered.com" rel="nofollow">can't have two different steam accounts tied to the same e-mail address</a> [steampowered.com].  Why the heck not?  I've paid for two copies.  I only have one e-mail address.  You're telling me I have to get another e-mail address just to register a fricking game?  Either that or there's something I'm not understanding from the on-line documentation, but even if that is the case, this is all a hassle I shouldn't have to go through.</p><p>I buy all my games, but the first thing I do is look for no-cd or other patches to get around the stupid DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Steam is n't my favorite , but at least it does n't force a constant connection to the publisher 's servers to play a game !
" That 's true .
But I 've still had it crap out with errors , fail to connect to servers , and otherwise unjustifiably complain when I 'm trying to play a game .
The inconvenience is fairly uncommon ( it usually works properly ) , but it does slow down the game load every time and it is more annoying when problems occur .
I do n't like it .
The only reason I finally took the plunge was when I could buy Orange Box used for $ 20 , years after the original release .
I 'll certainly never play full price for that kind of inconvenience.Oh , and another thing .
I bought a second copy of Orange Box so that I could have two installs on my local home network .
No go .
Apparently I ca n't have two different steam accounts tied to the same e-mail address [ steampowered.com ] .
Why the heck not ?
I 've paid for two copies .
I only have one e-mail address .
You 're telling me I have to get another e-mail address just to register a fricking game ?
Either that or there 's something I 'm not understanding from the on-line documentation , but even if that is the case , this is all a hassle I should n't have to go through.I buy all my games , but the first thing I do is look for no-cd or other patches to get around the stupid DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Steam isn't my favorite, but at least it doesn't force a constant connection to the publisher's servers to play a game!
"That's true.
But I've still had it crap out with errors, fail to connect to servers, and otherwise unjustifiably complain when I'm trying to play a game.
The inconvenience is fairly uncommon (it usually works properly), but it does slow down the game load every time and it is more annoying when problems occur.
I don't like it.
The only reason I finally took the plunge was when I could buy Orange Box used for $20, years after the original release.
I'll certainly never play full price for that kind of inconvenience.Oh, and another thing.
I bought a second copy of Orange Box so that I could have two installs on my local home network.
No go.
Apparently I can't have two different steam accounts tied to the same e-mail address [steampowered.com].
Why the heck not?
I've paid for two copies.
I only have one e-mail address.
You're telling me I have to get another e-mail address just to register a fricking game?
Either that or there's something I'm not understanding from the on-line documentation, but even if that is the case, this is all a hassle I shouldn't have to go through.I buy all my games, but the first thing I do is look for no-cd or other patches to get around the stupid DRM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007910</id>
	<title>Re:It's about used games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may be the case on the consoles but I don't think the used PC game market is very large. This is mainly because the lower initial price and faster price reductions available on PC games would makes it uneconomical.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may be the case on the consoles but I do n't think the used PC game market is very large .
This is mainly because the lower initial price and faster price reductions available on PC games would makes it uneconomical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may be the case on the consoles but I don't think the used PC game market is very large.
This is mainly because the lower initial price and faster price reductions available on PC games would makes it uneconomical.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011000</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1264958340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just bought my first Steam game, ME2, and I'm rather pleased with it. I might be annoyed if I needed to run it when I wasn't online, although I did see some mention of an 'offline' option...I assume I can run offline for a bit if my net connection is down, but it has to check in eventually?</p><p>
Steam is really the sane way to do DRM: Simply check every once in a while that the product key is correct over the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just bought my first Steam game , ME2 , and I 'm rather pleased with it .
I might be annoyed if I needed to run it when I was n't online , although I did see some mention of an 'offline ' option...I assume I can run offline for a bit if my net connection is down , but it has to check in eventually ?
Steam is really the sane way to do DRM : Simply check every once in a while that the product key is correct over the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just bought my first Steam game, ME2, and I'm rather pleased with it.
I might be annoyed if I needed to run it when I wasn't online, although I did see some mention of an 'offline' option...I assume I can run offline for a bit if my net connection is down, but it has to check in eventually?
Steam is really the sane way to do DRM: Simply check every once in a while that the product key is correct over the internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</id>
	<title>Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264931040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think piracy is unavoidable in a non-subscription based model like most standalone games. The target audience (teenagers) sees themselves as poor, or actually is poor, and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free. Others undoubtedly resent the fact they are being asked to actually pay for a game, and so are willing to crack them.<br>I would like to see the demographics on who *does* pay for games and see if I am write, or if people of all ages are cheap bastards<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>Now the MMO world has it much better off, since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all. Of course that undoubtedly leads to a lot of problems with stolen CC numbers and the like, so perhaps you are no further ahead. By requiring a CC number to even register, they of course limit their potential sales massively as well.</p><p>Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play, but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road. I don't want to see how badly that warps the game designs we see as a result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think piracy is unavoidable in a non-subscription based model like most standalone games .
The target audience ( teenagers ) sees themselves as poor , or actually is poor , and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free .
Others undoubtedly resent the fact they are being asked to actually pay for a game , and so are willing to crack them.I would like to see the demographics on who * does * pay for games and see if I am write , or if people of all ages are cheap bastards : PNow the MMO world has it much better off , since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all .
Of course that undoubtedly leads to a lot of problems with stolen CC numbers and the like , so perhaps you are no further ahead .
By requiring a CC number to even register , they of course limit their potential sales massively as well.Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play , but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road .
I do n't want to see how badly that warps the game designs we see as a result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think piracy is unavoidable in a non-subscription based model like most standalone games.
The target audience (teenagers) sees themselves as poor, or actually is poor, and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free.
Others undoubtedly resent the fact they are being asked to actually pay for a game, and so are willing to crack them.I would like to see the demographics on who *does* pay for games and see if I am write, or if people of all ages are cheap bastards :PNow the MMO world has it much better off, since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all.
Of course that undoubtedly leads to a lot of problems with stolen CC numbers and the like, so perhaps you are no further ahead.
By requiring a CC number to even register, they of course limit their potential sales massively as well.Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play, but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road.
I don't want to see how badly that warps the game designs we see as a result.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011936</id>
	<title>It's pricing, stupid</title>
	<author>soupforare</author>
	<datestamp>1264961940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The proverbial "99c game" will be cracked because crackers crack.  If it's 99c, it'll sell like mad, even if the game is horrible.<br>When the game prices are good, whether on gogamer or a steam sale, I buy the game.  No game is worth $60 to me.  Torchlight is the perfect example, great game, right price.  I bought it when the price was higher and wasn't even mad when it went down to $5 on sale.  On the contrary, I told friends to go pick it up!<br>Even games I've already purchased, I'll buy again if they're on steam and cheap.  UT, Q4, CoH, etc.  Just for the ease of installation factor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The proverbial " 99c game " will be cracked because crackers crack .
If it 's 99c , it 'll sell like mad , even if the game is horrible.When the game prices are good , whether on gogamer or a steam sale , I buy the game .
No game is worth $ 60 to me .
Torchlight is the perfect example , great game , right price .
I bought it when the price was higher and was n't even mad when it went down to $ 5 on sale .
On the contrary , I told friends to go pick it up ! Even games I 've already purchased , I 'll buy again if they 're on steam and cheap .
UT , Q4 , CoH , etc .
Just for the ease of installation factor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proverbial "99c game" will be cracked because crackers crack.
If it's 99c, it'll sell like mad, even if the game is horrible.When the game prices are good, whether on gogamer or a steam sale, I buy the game.
No game is worth $60 to me.
Torchlight is the perfect example, great game, right price.
I bought it when the price was higher and wasn't even mad when it went down to $5 on sale.
On the contrary, I told friends to go pick it up!Even games I've already purchased, I'll buy again if they're on steam and cheap.
UT, Q4, CoH, etc.
Just for the ease of installation factor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009300</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>quadrox</author>
	<datestamp>1264951080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with your sentiment, but I will not even buy the damn game if it has DRM on it. If I really really want to play it I will get a pirate version, but usually I just completely ignore games with DRM on them.</p><p>But no matter what, if the publisher wishes to screw me with their DRM they are not going to get one cent from me. I wish gamers would get over it and actually follow through with boycots of DRM games instead of just talking about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with your sentiment , but I will not even buy the damn game if it has DRM on it .
If I really really want to play it I will get a pirate version , but usually I just completely ignore games with DRM on them.But no matter what , if the publisher wishes to screw me with their DRM they are not going to get one cent from me .
I wish gamers would get over it and actually follow through with boycots of DRM games instead of just talking about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with your sentiment, but I will not even buy the damn game if it has DRM on it.
If I really really want to play it I will get a pirate version, but usually I just completely ignore games with DRM on them.But no matter what, if the publisher wishes to screw me with their DRM they are not going to get one cent from me.
I wish gamers would get over it and actually follow through with boycots of DRM games instead of just talking about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008060</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1264939860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The target audience (teenagers) sees themselves as poor, or actually is poor, and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free"</p><p>Since the article mentions cliffski, the problem is cliff's games are competing against all AAA games of yesteryear, why should an indie developer expect large sales when the competition is so fierce?</p><p>Why would I want to play space battles instead of darksiders which I can rent for $5 or less and finish then send back?  Game developers forget that when we were kids we rented games and bought our favorites, if you want gamers to buy your games they have to be GOOD.   I still have an old collection of SNES cartridges and all the games I bought were games worth buying, and we as kids would rent the rest... are most of todays games worth buying?   Many kids who grew up to be game developers did the same thing, it would be wise if they would pay attention how they themselves acted when young (pirating/renting the crap and buying the best games)</p><p>The great irony is many developers have the least sense of the business they are in and forget their own childhood.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The target audience ( teenagers ) sees themselves as poor , or actually is poor , and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free " Since the article mentions cliffski , the problem is cliff 's games are competing against all AAA games of yesteryear , why should an indie developer expect large sales when the competition is so fierce ? Why would I want to play space battles instead of darksiders which I can rent for $ 5 or less and finish then send back ?
Game developers forget that when we were kids we rented games and bought our favorites , if you want gamers to buy your games they have to be GOOD .
I still have an old collection of SNES cartridges and all the games I bought were games worth buying , and we as kids would rent the rest... are most of todays games worth buying ?
Many kids who grew up to be game developers did the same thing , it would be wise if they would pay attention how they themselves acted when young ( pirating/renting the crap and buying the best games ) The great irony is many developers have the least sense of the business they are in and forget their own childhood .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The target audience (teenagers) sees themselves as poor, or actually is poor, and is thus unwilling to pay for something they can get for free"Since the article mentions cliffski, the problem is cliff's games are competing against all AAA games of yesteryear, why should an indie developer expect large sales when the competition is so fierce?Why would I want to play space battles instead of darksiders which I can rent for $5 or less and finish then send back?
Game developers forget that when we were kids we rented games and bought our favorites, if you want gamers to buy your games they have to be GOOD.
I still have an old collection of SNES cartridges and all the games I bought were games worth buying, and we as kids would rent the rest... are most of todays games worth buying?
Many kids who grew up to be game developers did the same thing, it would be wise if they would pay attention how they themselves acted when young (pirating/renting the crap and buying the best games)The great irony is many developers have the least sense of the business they are in and forget their own childhood.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008498</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Pharmboy</author>
	<datestamp>1264945560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, but I'm still playing the copy of Half-Life that I bought in 1998 on Steam (yes, I really play it from time to time) and haven't had any issues playing games I have bought.  Yet.  One of the actual *advantages* of Steam is the install.  Most of the stuff is one click and self installing, and most games allow you to install on multiple computers such as work/home/laptop, although you can only play on one at a time.  I never have to find a CD, I never have to go to a crappy commercial "gamers" website to get updates (and wait in cue.....).  For me, it just "works", and has over a dozen different computers.</p><p>At least Steam gives a little sugar with the medicine and makes the DRM (on most) completely seemless and CD free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , but I 'm still playing the copy of Half-Life that I bought in 1998 on Steam ( yes , I really play it from time to time ) and have n't had any issues playing games I have bought .
Yet. One of the actual * advantages * of Steam is the install .
Most of the stuff is one click and self installing , and most games allow you to install on multiple computers such as work/home/laptop , although you can only play on one at a time .
I never have to find a CD , I never have to go to a crappy commercial " gamers " website to get updates ( and wait in cue..... ) .
For me , it just " works " , and has over a dozen different computers.At least Steam gives a little sugar with the medicine and makes the DRM ( on most ) completely seemless and CD free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, but I'm still playing the copy of Half-Life that I bought in 1998 on Steam (yes, I really play it from time to time) and haven't had any issues playing games I have bought.
Yet.  One of the actual *advantages* of Steam is the install.
Most of the stuff is one click and self installing, and most games allow you to install on multiple computers such as work/home/laptop, although you can only play on one at a time.
I never have to find a CD, I never have to go to a crappy commercial "gamers" website to get updates (and wait in cue.....).
For me, it just "works", and has over a dozen different computers.At least Steam gives a little sugar with the medicine and makes the DRM (on most) completely seemless and CD free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31016014</id>
	<title>Some of us have more sense than that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264937640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; But on the other side, you ignore something that should be obvious. All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend. They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.</p><p>You have to have some sense about what sort of cracks you use.  After a while, you recognize the more trustworthy release groups.  I've never been owned and I've cracked plenty of games I bought, though I wrote one keygen myself (I never distributed it, and I told the author how to harden it).</p><p>That said, it's enough of a hassle that I prefer to buy DRM-free games, like those made by PopCap.  Even Dragon Age: Origins ended up with nothing more than a CD-check, so someone must be getting the message.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; But on the other side , you ignore something that should be obvious .
All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend .
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.You have to have some sense about what sort of cracks you use .
After a while , you recognize the more trustworthy release groups .
I 've never been owned and I 've cracked plenty of games I bought , though I wrote one keygen myself ( I never distributed it , and I told the author how to harden it ) .That said , it 's enough of a hassle that I prefer to buy DRM-free games , like those made by PopCap .
Even Dragon Age : Origins ended up with nothing more than a CD-check , so someone must be getting the message .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; But on the other side, you ignore something that should be obvious.
All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend.
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.You have to have some sense about what sort of cracks you use.
After a while, you recognize the more trustworthy release groups.
I've never been owned and I've cracked plenty of games I bought, though I wrote one keygen myself (I never distributed it, and I told the author how to harden it).That said, it's enough of a hassle that I prefer to buy DRM-free games, like those made by PopCap.
Even Dragon Age: Origins ended up with nothing more than a CD-check, so someone must be getting the message.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007466</id>
	<title>Ubisoft</title>
	<author>khellendros1984</author>
	<datestamp>1264932600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've bought a number of Ubisoft games over the years. That won't be true if their new releases start "featuring" a constant tether to the internet. Frankly, I'll stick with the CD checks (or Steam). Steam isn't my favorite, but at least it doesn't force a constant connection to the publisher's servers to play a game!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've bought a number of Ubisoft games over the years .
That wo n't be true if their new releases start " featuring " a constant tether to the internet .
Frankly , I 'll stick with the CD checks ( or Steam ) .
Steam is n't my favorite , but at least it does n't force a constant connection to the publisher 's servers to play a game !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've bought a number of Ubisoft games over the years.
That won't be true if their new releases start "featuring" a constant tether to the internet.
Frankly, I'll stick with the CD checks (or Steam).
Steam isn't my favorite, but at least it doesn't force a constant connection to the publisher's servers to play a game!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007634</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264934580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope English wasn't your first language.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Now the MMO world has it much better off, since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all.</p></div><p>Why do they charge for the game itself AND the subscriptions?  It feels like double dipping.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play, but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road.</p></div><p>Have you seen what advertising has done to print media?  And that's for the stuff you PAY FOR.  You can be sure than they won't be placated by product placement.  They'll charge too, just as the newspapers and magazines do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope English was n't your first language.Now the MMO world has it much better off , since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all.Why do they charge for the game itself AND the subscriptions ?
It feels like double dipping.Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play , but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road.Have you seen what advertising has done to print media ?
And that 's for the stuff you PAY FOR .
You can be sure than they wo n't be placated by product placement .
They 'll charge too , just as the newspapers and magazines do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope English wasn't your first language.Now the MMO world has it much better off, since you need a subscription to actually play the game at all.Why do they charge for the game itself AND the subscriptions?
It feels like double dipping.Sadly I think this is going to lead to games which are free to play, but contain targeted in-game advertising down the road.Have you seen what advertising has done to print media?
And that's for the stuff you PAY FOR.
You can be sure than they won't be placated by product placement.
They'll charge too, just as the newspapers and magazines do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007826</id>
	<title>authentication</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264937040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is all well and good till they turn the god damn server off- I loved ravenshield but can't now play the iron wrath expansion over lan because the server has been turned off. Ubisoft thereofre will never receive another dime off me as i cannot trust them to keep my access to games on, if i pay i want to be able to play when and how i want not some snotty jumped up non game playing executive who is probably sleeping with his PA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is all well and good till they turn the god damn server off- I loved ravenshield but ca n't now play the iron wrath expansion over lan because the server has been turned off .
Ubisoft thereofre will never receive another dime off me as i can not trust them to keep my access to games on , if i pay i want to be able to play when and how i want not some snotty jumped up non game playing executive who is probably sleeping with his PA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is all well and good till they turn the god damn server off- I loved ravenshield but can't now play the iron wrath expansion over lan because the server has been turned off.
Ubisoft thereofre will never receive another dime off me as i cannot trust them to keep my access to games on, if i pay i want to be able to play when and how i want not some snotty jumped up non game playing executive who is probably sleeping with his PA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008050</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264939800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore, simply because I don't have the cracked version yet."</p><p>So basically you're saying that DRM is doing what publishers want it to, which is to prevent zero day piracy. Not only that, but you're still buying the game, which means that the publishers lose nothing by putting the DRM in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore , simply because I do n't have the cracked version yet .
" So basically you 're saying that DRM is doing what publishers want it to , which is to prevent zero day piracy .
Not only that , but you 're still buying the game , which means that the publishers lose nothing by putting the DRM in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore, simply because I don't have the cracked version yet.
"So basically you're saying that DRM is doing what publishers want it to, which is to prevent zero day piracy.
Not only that, but you're still buying the game, which means that the publishers lose nothing by putting the DRM in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007648</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>moderatorrater</author>
	<datestamp>1264934880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's an overly simplistic analysis of why someone might pirate a game. I have several reasons that I pirate games:

1. Extended demo - some games don't release a demo or they release a demo where it's impossible to tell if the game's worth buying or not. Rather than risk my money, I'll pirate it and buy it if it's worth playing. If it's not worth buying than I stop playing it. I have yet to play a pirated game all the way through without buying it first. I've bought A LOT of games because of this and this is the single biggest reason that I buy more games on the computer than the console. <br> <br>

2. I own the game, but I can't find the cd/dvd/whatever or it doesn't work for some reason. This tends to be only for older games.<br> <br>

3. LAN parties.<br> <br>

It's probably not strictly right to pirate the games for any reason, but I feel that those three reasons strike a balance between my need and the needs of the publishers. I'm not going to pay $100 to be able to LAN starcraft for a few hours and I believe it's unreasonable for the publisher to expect this of me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an overly simplistic analysis of why someone might pirate a game .
I have several reasons that I pirate games : 1 .
Extended demo - some games do n't release a demo or they release a demo where it 's impossible to tell if the game 's worth buying or not .
Rather than risk my money , I 'll pirate it and buy it if it 's worth playing .
If it 's not worth buying than I stop playing it .
I have yet to play a pirated game all the way through without buying it first .
I 've bought A LOT of games because of this and this is the single biggest reason that I buy more games on the computer than the console .
2. I own the game , but I ca n't find the cd/dvd/whatever or it does n't work for some reason .
This tends to be only for older games .
3. LAN parties .
It 's probably not strictly right to pirate the games for any reason , but I feel that those three reasons strike a balance between my need and the needs of the publishers .
I 'm not going to pay $ 100 to be able to LAN starcraft for a few hours and I believe it 's unreasonable for the publisher to expect this of me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an overly simplistic analysis of why someone might pirate a game.
I have several reasons that I pirate games:

1.
Extended demo - some games don't release a demo or they release a demo where it's impossible to tell if the game's worth buying or not.
Rather than risk my money, I'll pirate it and buy it if it's worth playing.
If it's not worth buying than I stop playing it.
I have yet to play a pirated game all the way through without buying it first.
I've bought A LOT of games because of this and this is the single biggest reason that I buy more games on the computer than the console.
2. I own the game, but I can't find the cd/dvd/whatever or it doesn't work for some reason.
This tends to be only for older games.
3. LAN parties.
It's probably not strictly right to pirate the games for any reason, but I feel that those three reasons strike a balance between my need and the needs of the publishers.
I'm not going to pay $100 to be able to LAN starcraft for a few hours and I believe it's unreasonable for the publisher to expect this of me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008230</id>
	<title>That is why I went console only.</title>
	<author>gullevek</author>
	<datestamp>1264942020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is why I do not own a gaming PC anymore, just a normal console. For the view times a month when I have time to play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is why I do not own a gaming PC anymore , just a normal console .
For the view times a month when I have time to play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is why I do not own a gaming PC anymore, just a normal console.
For the view times a month when I have time to play.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009982</id>
	<title>DRM doesn't stop ALL piracy</title>
	<author>wjousts</author>
	<datestamp>1264954140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DRM doesn't stop ALL piracy (obviously), but that doesn't mean it doesn't stop ANY piracy. Using the argument that DRM is useless because people will still pirate seems as flawed as the argument that laws against murder are useless because people will still murder each other (no, I'm not comparing pirates to murderers, it's a <i>reductio ad absurdum</i>).</p><p>I'm as much against DRM as the next guy (gog.com FTW!), but I think the argument that publishers should drop it because it doesn't stop ALL piracy is fallacious. Better arguments are about the impact it has on paying customers and the potential things like internet activation have to stop people being able to play their games altogether when (not if) the servers go dark; that is my #1 reason why I avoid Steam.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM does n't stop ALL piracy ( obviously ) , but that does n't mean it does n't stop ANY piracy .
Using the argument that DRM is useless because people will still pirate seems as flawed as the argument that laws against murder are useless because people will still murder each other ( no , I 'm not comparing pirates to murderers , it 's a reductio ad absurdum ) .I 'm as much against DRM as the next guy ( gog.com FTW !
) , but I think the argument that publishers should drop it because it does n't stop ALL piracy is fallacious .
Better arguments are about the impact it has on paying customers and the potential things like internet activation have to stop people being able to play their games altogether when ( not if ) the servers go dark ; that is my # 1 reason why I avoid Steam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM doesn't stop ALL piracy (obviously), but that doesn't mean it doesn't stop ANY piracy.
Using the argument that DRM is useless because people will still pirate seems as flawed as the argument that laws against murder are useless because people will still murder each other (no, I'm not comparing pirates to murderers, it's a reductio ad absurdum).I'm as much against DRM as the next guy (gog.com FTW!
), but I think the argument that publishers should drop it because it doesn't stop ALL piracy is fallacious.
Better arguments are about the impact it has on paying customers and the potential things like internet activation have to stop people being able to play their games altogether when (not if) the servers go dark; that is my #1 reason why I avoid Steam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009944</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264954020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Read it again. He decided to stop using DRM. The piracy/sales ratio remained about the same. He accepts piracy as an unavoidable fact. The article is about various opinions on DRM, not about reinforcing DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read it again .
He decided to stop using DRM .
The piracy/sales ratio remained about the same .
He accepts piracy as an unavoidable fact .
The article is about various opinions on DRM , not about reinforcing DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read it again.
He decided to stop using DRM.
The piracy/sales ratio remained about the same.
He accepts piracy as an unavoidable fact.
The article is about various opinions on DRM, not about reinforcing DRM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009958</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1264954080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Extended demo - some games don't release a demo</p></div><p>That's when you look on YouTube for a "Let's Play" video of the game.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>3. LAN parties.</p></div><p>LAN parties are ideal for college dorm situations, but the situation changes once you graduate and possibly start a family. Even if your favorite game supports spawn installations like Starcraft, you may still have to buy extra PCs and extra copies of Windows for this because friends who happen to be visiting your house probably don't carry a gaming PC with them 24/7.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Extended demo - some games do n't release a demoThat 's when you look on YouTube for a " Let 's Play " video of the game.3 .
LAN parties.LAN parties are ideal for college dorm situations , but the situation changes once you graduate and possibly start a family .
Even if your favorite game supports spawn installations like Starcraft , you may still have to buy extra PCs and extra copies of Windows for this because friends who happen to be visiting your house probably do n't carry a gaming PC with them 24/7 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Extended demo - some games don't release a demoThat's when you look on YouTube for a "Let's Play" video of the game.3.
LAN parties.LAN parties are ideal for college dorm situations, but the situation changes once you graduate and possibly start a family.
Even if your favorite game supports spawn installations like Starcraft, you may still have to buy extra PCs and extra copies of Windows for this because friends who happen to be visiting your house probably don't carry a gaming PC with them 24/7.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31015140</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>spire3661</author>
	<datestamp>1264933920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read up on some 2k forum devs saying that the GFW activation limit is 15+, and you can get it reset easily. Securom only does a disc check. I'm not playing devil's advocate, jsut saying they seemed to have relaxed the DRM a bit this time around.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read up on some 2k forum devs saying that the GFW activation limit is 15 + , and you can get it reset easily .
Securom only does a disc check .
I 'm not playing devil 's advocate , jsut saying they seemed to have relaxed the DRM a bit this time around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read up on some 2k forum devs saying that the GFW activation limit is 15+, and you can get it reset easily.
Securom only does a disc check.
I'm not playing devil's advocate, jsut saying they seemed to have relaxed the DRM a bit this time around.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008762</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Machtyn</author>
	<datestamp>1264947840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&lt;feed the troll&gt;
Actually, it is people like him that the publishers want.  They are passionate about games and willing to spend the money.  How many times does a customer need to get burned by DRM measures that hose a computer, break hardware, or fail to work properly.  Why must those who know how have to image their disc to the hard drive, use a myriad of software to bypass/mimic the DRM handshake so that we won't have to play the disc swap and scratch game.  Why must we deal with 50 different types of DRM, many of which cause OS instability or fall over each other with background processes.
&lt;/feed the troll&gt;</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it is people like him that the publishers want .
They are passionate about games and willing to spend the money .
How many times does a customer need to get burned by DRM measures that hose a computer , break hardware , or fail to work properly .
Why must those who know how have to image their disc to the hard drive , use a myriad of software to bypass/mimic the DRM handshake so that we wo n't have to play the disc swap and scratch game .
Why must we deal with 50 different types of DRM , many of which cause OS instability or fall over each other with background processes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Actually, it is people like him that the publishers want.
They are passionate about games and willing to spend the money.
How many times does a customer need to get burned by DRM measures that hose a computer, break hardware, or fail to work properly.
Why must those who know how have to image their disc to the hard drive, use a myriad of software to bypass/mimic the DRM handshake so that we won't have to play the disc swap and scratch game.
Why must we deal with 50 different types of DRM, many of which cause OS instability or fall over each other with background processes.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31016072</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264937880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend.  They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.</p> </div><p>Because we trust them more than greedy game <b>distributors</b>. Besides, they give you the stuff for free.</p><p>Honestly. If you are careful about the stuff you download, then you have absolutely no reason to worry. I positively hate it when people like spread misinformation, nay <b>lies</b> about pirated software. I have been using pirated software for the almost a decade now. And I have maybe gotten a virus once. I can't recall when/if it happened, but I'll say it happened anyways just to err on the safe side. I'm ashamed to admit some of this was from P2P networks, which are relatively safe to use if you are reasonably smart about things.</p><p>This doesn't, however, apply to the noobs. You know, the kind that go "OMG, i don't know how to open all these files. Can some1 post the install exe plz? Thankzing you in regards advance, Shairdihij Marjoobah - A Salami Rektoom. " The illegal downloading 'scene' is full of fakes and virus infested software. But please don't go insinuating that the legit release groups are posting trojans in their releases and what not. That's just utter bullshit.</p><p>-CvroyovXO</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend .
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box .
Because we trust them more than greedy game distributors .
Besides , they give you the stuff for free.Honestly .
If you are careful about the stuff you download , then you have absolutely no reason to worry .
I positively hate it when people like spread misinformation , nay lies about pirated software .
I have been using pirated software for the almost a decade now .
And I have maybe gotten a virus once .
I ca n't recall when/if it happened , but I 'll say it happened anyways just to err on the safe side .
I 'm ashamed to admit some of this was from P2P networks , which are relatively safe to use if you are reasonably smart about things.This does n't , however , apply to the noobs .
You know , the kind that go " OMG , i do n't know how to open all these files .
Can some1 post the install exe plz ?
Thankzing you in regards advance , Shairdihij Marjoobah - A Salami Rektoom .
" The illegal downloading 'scene ' is full of fakes and virus infested software .
But please do n't go insinuating that the legit release groups are posting trojans in their releases and what not .
That 's just utter bullshit.-CvroyovXO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the hackers/crackers out there are not your friend.
They laugh their asses off as you install the cracked game and they take control of your box.
Because we trust them more than greedy game distributors.
Besides, they give you the stuff for free.Honestly.
If you are careful about the stuff you download, then you have absolutely no reason to worry.
I positively hate it when people like spread misinformation, nay lies about pirated software.
I have been using pirated software for the almost a decade now.
And I have maybe gotten a virus once.
I can't recall when/if it happened, but I'll say it happened anyways just to err on the safe side.
I'm ashamed to admit some of this was from P2P networks, which are relatively safe to use if you are reasonably smart about things.This doesn't, however, apply to the noobs.
You know, the kind that go "OMG, i don't know how to open all these files.
Can some1 post the install exe plz?
Thankzing you in regards advance, Shairdihij Marjoobah - A Salami Rektoom.
" The illegal downloading 'scene' is full of fakes and virus infested software.
But please don't go insinuating that the legit release groups are posting trojans in their releases and what not.
That's just utter bullshit.-CvroyovXO
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009038</id>
	<title>The Lesson is: DRM doesn't work.</title>
	<author>Corporate Drone</author>
	<datestamp>1264949640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Harris bemoans the fact that, regardless what effort he puts into a game, someone will crack it.  But, he's attempting to learn the wrong lesson.  </p><p>It isn't that people (/ consumers) are intrinsically fair.</p><p>It isn't that crackers are acting out of some noble desire to rid the world of DRM.</p><p>The lesson here is simple: DRM doesn't work.  There's no real ROI on it, so don't put in on games and make it difficult or unplayable for your paying customers.  Period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Harris bemoans the fact that , regardless what effort he puts into a game , someone will crack it .
But , he 's attempting to learn the wrong lesson .
It is n't that people ( / consumers ) are intrinsically fair.It is n't that crackers are acting out of some noble desire to rid the world of DRM.The lesson here is simple : DRM does n't work .
There 's no real ROI on it , so do n't put in on games and make it difficult or unplayable for your paying customers .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Harris bemoans the fact that, regardless what effort he puts into a game, someone will crack it.
But, he's attempting to learn the wrong lesson.
It isn't that people (/ consumers) are intrinsically fair.It isn't that crackers are acting out of some noble desire to rid the world of DRM.The lesson here is simple: DRM doesn't work.
There's no real ROI on it, so don't put in on games and make it difficult or unplayable for your paying customers.
Period.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008276</id>
	<title>DRM, three Evils in One</title>
	<author>CharonX</author>
	<datestamp>1264942560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DRM, that is Digital Right Management, is actually three evils in one.<br>
First of all, many publishers view DRM as a way to manage (read increase) their rights while reducing the rights of the consumers, i.e. restrict the resale, activation limits, remote killswitches etc.<br>
Secondly, many legitimate consumers find DRM annoying - they purchased a product but cannot use it as they see fit - be it that cannot transfer their music CD to their MP3 player, or play that game without contacting the publisher's master server.<br>
And thirdly DRM is an excellent excuse NOT purchase something, but rather obtain it illegally. After all, stealing from a "nice company" does feel wrong. Screwing some corporate morloch that does its best to screw you feels much less wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM , that is Digital Right Management , is actually three evils in one .
First of all , many publishers view DRM as a way to manage ( read increase ) their rights while reducing the rights of the consumers , i.e .
restrict the resale , activation limits , remote killswitches etc .
Secondly , many legitimate consumers find DRM annoying - they purchased a product but can not use it as they see fit - be it that can not transfer their music CD to their MP3 player , or play that game without contacting the publisher 's master server .
And thirdly DRM is an excellent excuse NOT purchase something , but rather obtain it illegally .
After all , stealing from a " nice company " does feel wrong .
Screwing some corporate morloch that does its best to screw you feels much less wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM, that is Digital Right Management, is actually three evils in one.
First of all, many publishers view DRM as a way to manage (read increase) their rights while reducing the rights of the consumers, i.e.
restrict the resale, activation limits, remote killswitches etc.
Secondly, many legitimate consumers find DRM annoying - they purchased a product but cannot use it as they see fit - be it that cannot transfer their music CD to their MP3 player, or play that game without contacting the publisher's master server.
And thirdly DRM is an excellent excuse NOT purchase something, but rather obtain it illegally.
After all, stealing from a "nice company" does feel wrong.
Screwing some corporate morloch that does its best to screw you feels much less wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009506</id>
	<title>Piracy is a sport</title>
	<author>HalAtWork</author>
	<datestamp>1264952280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To many, piracy is a sport.  To others, hoarding pirated wares is a sport.  Don't even play them, it's just a bigger e-penis.  The rest of us just buy/play games normally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To many , piracy is a sport .
To others , hoarding pirated wares is a sport .
Do n't even play them , it 's just a bigger e-penis .
The rest of us just buy/play games normally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To many, piracy is a sport.
To others, hoarding pirated wares is a sport.
Don't even play them, it's just a bigger e-penis.
The rest of us just buy/play games normally.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010938</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>ravenshrike</author>
	<datestamp>1264958160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It only prevents 0-day piracy if the game isn't that good. All the big games are cracked before/on the release day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It only prevents 0-day piracy if the game is n't that good .
All the big games are cracked before/on the release day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It only prevents 0-day piracy if the game isn't that good.
All the big games are cracked before/on the release day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31015050</id>
	<title>TFA</title>
	<author>Brian Gordon</author>
	<datestamp>1264933620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one</p></div></blockquote><p>If it's being cracked then it wasn't DRM-free now was it?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems any game , even if it 's $ 0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend , will be cracked and distributed on day oneIf it 's being cracked then it was n't DRM-free now was it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day oneIf it's being cracked then it wasn't DRM-free now was it?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007566</id>
	<title>Piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264933800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I generally download my games, and if they are good I buy them. So I never have problems with DRM, and I do still support the companies. Net result: a huge pile of unopened dvds (even in the original wrap), and no problems with any game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I generally download my games , and if they are good I buy them .
So I never have problems with DRM , and I do still support the companies .
Net result : a huge pile of unopened dvds ( even in the original wrap ) , and no problems with any game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I generally download my games, and if they are good I buy them.
So I never have problems with DRM, and I do still support the companies.
Net result: a huge pile of unopened dvds (even in the original wrap), and no problems with any game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31026156</id>
	<title>Larger Pattern</title>
	<author>Lodragandraoidh</author>
	<datestamp>1265274600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it is obvious there is a larger pattern here.</p><p>'Content providers' - music companies, movie companies, game companies, TV/entertainment companies, book publishers (really any business involving creating and delivering bits) - were hit hard when the internet allowed people to share the content between themselves.  Napster, BitTorrent, et al have given people a taste for free/cheap content, and as a result the genie is out of the bottle.</p><p>We are shifting from a centralized market to a decentralized market.   The established 'producers' do not want the consumers to also become producers themselves - yet due to their actions (trying to put the genie back into the bottle as it were) - they are making it more and more desirable for  the consumers to take matters into their own hands.  Be it indie record labels, shoestring DIY movie makers, youtubers, and others, they are all on the leading edge of this wave.</p><p>This has caused overall profits in most of these industries to drop, as 'consumers' are now not willing to pay premium prices (e.g. to buy a whole album of songs - of which one or two are worth listening to, buy a hard cover book, when they would rather have an eBook - so they can take their whole library with them) - instead desiring smaller units at a more reasonable prices.  As a result many so-called 'industries' are trying to figure out how to monetize the new medium...'software as a service' and subscription services seem like a plausible solution - but these companies have to realize that the quality of the experience has to be worth the cost to the consumer or they will go elsewhere.  With technology changing and the capabilities of various software and hardware tools improving to the point where anyone can afford to produce 'professional' quality movies, games, music and other applications, the companies that specialize in those fields will have to either find compelling reasons to have consumers pay for something that can be found for free or very cheap.</p><p>We are in the middle of a sea-change.  When it is over, the business landscape will not look the same as it did in the last century.  For starters there will be more cottage industry since the infrastructure needed to do high quality work - particularly in areas that primarily create/manipulate bits - will be minimal and available to almost anyone.  The entertainment industry, publishing, gaming, and software industries will be drastically altered.  What does survive will have compelling content/technologies that make people want to pony up the cash to gain access.  All the rest will be decentralized, cheap and highly available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is obvious there is a larger pattern here .
'Content providers ' - music companies , movie companies , game companies , TV/entertainment companies , book publishers ( really any business involving creating and delivering bits ) - were hit hard when the internet allowed people to share the content between themselves .
Napster , BitTorrent , et al have given people a taste for free/cheap content , and as a result the genie is out of the bottle.We are shifting from a centralized market to a decentralized market .
The established 'producers ' do not want the consumers to also become producers themselves - yet due to their actions ( trying to put the genie back into the bottle as it were ) - they are making it more and more desirable for the consumers to take matters into their own hands .
Be it indie record labels , shoestring DIY movie makers , youtubers , and others , they are all on the leading edge of this wave.This has caused overall profits in most of these industries to drop , as 'consumers ' are now not willing to pay premium prices ( e.g .
to buy a whole album of songs - of which one or two are worth listening to , buy a hard cover book , when they would rather have an eBook - so they can take their whole library with them ) - instead desiring smaller units at a more reasonable prices .
As a result many so-called 'industries ' are trying to figure out how to monetize the new medium...'software as a service ' and subscription services seem like a plausible solution - but these companies have to realize that the quality of the experience has to be worth the cost to the consumer or they will go elsewhere .
With technology changing and the capabilities of various software and hardware tools improving to the point where anyone can afford to produce 'professional ' quality movies , games , music and other applications , the companies that specialize in those fields will have to either find compelling reasons to have consumers pay for something that can be found for free or very cheap.We are in the middle of a sea-change .
When it is over , the business landscape will not look the same as it did in the last century .
For starters there will be more cottage industry since the infrastructure needed to do high quality work - particularly in areas that primarily create/manipulate bits - will be minimal and available to almost anyone .
The entertainment industry , publishing , gaming , and software industries will be drastically altered .
What does survive will have compelling content/technologies that make people want to pony up the cash to gain access .
All the rest will be decentralized , cheap and highly available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is obvious there is a larger pattern here.
'Content providers' - music companies, movie companies, game companies, TV/entertainment companies, book publishers (really any business involving creating and delivering bits) - were hit hard when the internet allowed people to share the content between themselves.
Napster, BitTorrent, et al have given people a taste for free/cheap content, and as a result the genie is out of the bottle.We are shifting from a centralized market to a decentralized market.
The established 'producers' do not want the consumers to also become producers themselves - yet due to their actions (trying to put the genie back into the bottle as it were) - they are making it more and more desirable for  the consumers to take matters into their own hands.
Be it indie record labels, shoestring DIY movie makers, youtubers, and others, they are all on the leading edge of this wave.This has caused overall profits in most of these industries to drop, as 'consumers' are now not willing to pay premium prices (e.g.
to buy a whole album of songs - of which one or two are worth listening to, buy a hard cover book, when they would rather have an eBook - so they can take their whole library with them) - instead desiring smaller units at a more reasonable prices.
As a result many so-called 'industries' are trying to figure out how to monetize the new medium...'software as a service' and subscription services seem like a plausible solution - but these companies have to realize that the quality of the experience has to be worth the cost to the consumer or they will go elsewhere.
With technology changing and the capabilities of various software and hardware tools improving to the point where anyone can afford to produce 'professional' quality movies, games, music and other applications, the companies that specialize in those fields will have to either find compelling reasons to have consumers pay for something that can be found for free or very cheap.We are in the middle of a sea-change.
When it is over, the business landscape will not look the same as it did in the last century.
For starters there will be more cottage industry since the infrastructure needed to do high quality work - particularly in areas that primarily create/manipulate bits - will be minimal and available to almost anyone.
The entertainment industry, publishing, gaming, and software industries will be drastically altered.
What does survive will have compelling content/technologies that make people want to pony up the cash to gain access.
All the rest will be decentralized, cheap and highly available.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008552</id>
	<title>Clarification</title>
	<author>dusanv</author>
	<datestamp>1264945920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM.</i> </p><p>That should read:<br>Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK, whose business model is resale of DRM-laden games, said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM, because the opposite would promptly put Direct2Drive out of business.</p><p>I buy games (wish I had more time to actually play all of them). I will not buy a DRM-ed game though because DRM is annoying and it isn't really a purchase but a rental.</p><p>DRM isn't about piracy in any industry, gaming included. Pirates will pirate, DRM or not. Publishers are trying to kill the second hand game market with internet checks and they're succeeding. They have no issues with annoying their paying customers by loading viruses on their computers and performing internet checks in the process of making an extra buck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company has n't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM .
That should read : Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK , whose business model is resale of DRM-laden games , said his company has n't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM , because the opposite would promptly put Direct2Drive out of business.I buy games ( wish I had more time to actually play all of them ) .
I will not buy a DRM-ed game though because DRM is annoying and it is n't really a purchase but a rental.DRM is n't about piracy in any industry , gaming included .
Pirates will pirate , DRM or not .
Publishers are trying to kill the second hand game market with internet checks and they 're succeeding .
They have no issues with annoying their paying customers by loading viruses on their computers and performing internet checks in the process of making an extra buck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM.
That should read:Nihal de Silva of Direct2Drive UK, whose business model is resale of DRM-laden games, said his company hasn't noticed any sales patterns indicating customers are avoiding games with DRM, because the opposite would promptly put Direct2Drive out of business.I buy games (wish I had more time to actually play all of them).
I will not buy a DRM-ed game though because DRM is annoying and it isn't really a purchase but a rental.DRM isn't about piracy in any industry, gaming included.
Pirates will pirate, DRM or not.
Publishers are trying to kill the second hand game market with internet checks and they're succeeding.
They have no issues with annoying their paying customers by loading viruses on their computers and performing internet checks in the process of making an extra buck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011314</id>
	<title>Resale?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264959660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about."</p><p>The resale of used games is our INALIENABLE RIGHT. If you worry about it, you've got more serious problems...in your head. See 17 U.S.C.  109(a) &amp; (c).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about .
" The resale of used games is our INALIENABLE RIGHT .
If you worry about it , you 've got more serious problems...in your head .
See 17 U.S.C .
109 ( a ) &amp; ( c ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...the resale of used games is not something publishers should worry about.
"The resale of used games is our INALIENABLE RIGHT.
If you worry about it, you've got more serious problems...in your head.
See 17 U.S.C.
109(a) &amp; (c).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007532</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264933320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is only one "healthy level of DRM".  Hint: Steam exceeds it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is only one " healthy level of DRM " .
Hint : Steam exceeds it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is only one "healthy level of DRM".
Hint: Steam exceeds it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008028</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1264939560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch.</p></div><p>That's nonsense. If the servers go down, I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer. Reinstalling stuff will be a tad difficult, but that's the nature of any medium. DVD damaged -&gt; no reinstall. Steam servers down -&gt; no reinstall. There's a higher likelyhood that your DVDs will get damaged than the Steam servers going down - probably by 50x or more. But if they do go down, it hits ALL your games, so it is a gamble.</p><p>I use steam because it's the only store where I can get awesome prices on games. Most game developers seemed to want to milk online distribution for money in the past, but Steam seems to be a fan of 75-90\% off sales. Psychonauts for $2, Titan Quest + expansion for $4.99... this week has been good to me.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>I also like GOG. GOG is the best - though usually steam has even cheaper sale prices. DRM that results in lower prices - am I imagining that?</p><p>I like Steam.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch.That 's nonsense .
If the servers go down , I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer .
Reinstalling stuff will be a tad difficult , but that 's the nature of any medium .
DVD damaged - &gt; no reinstall .
Steam servers down - &gt; no reinstall .
There 's a higher likelyhood that your DVDs will get damaged than the Steam servers going down - probably by 50x or more .
But if they do go down , it hits ALL your games , so it is a gamble.I use steam because it 's the only store where I can get awesome prices on games .
Most game developers seemed to want to milk online distribution for money in the past , but Steam seems to be a fan of 75-90 \ % off sales .
Psychonauts for $ 2 , Titan Quest + expansion for $ 4.99... this week has been good to me .
: PI also like GOG .
GOG is the best - though usually steam has even cheaper sale prices .
DRM that results in lower prices - am I imagining that ? I like Steam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But in the end you are still renting games that come with a remote kill switch.That's nonsense.
If the servers go down, I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer.
Reinstalling stuff will be a tad difficult, but that's the nature of any medium.
DVD damaged -&gt; no reinstall.
Steam servers down -&gt; no reinstall.
There's a higher likelyhood that your DVDs will get damaged than the Steam servers going down - probably by 50x or more.
But if they do go down, it hits ALL your games, so it is a gamble.I use steam because it's the only store where I can get awesome prices on games.
Most game developers seemed to want to milk online distribution for money in the past, but Steam seems to be a fan of 75-90\% off sales.
Psychonauts for $2, Titan Quest + expansion for $4.99... this week has been good to me.
:PI also like GOG.
GOG is the best - though usually steam has even cheaper sale prices.
DRM that results in lower prices - am I imagining that?I like Steam.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009090</id>
	<title>eightb</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264949940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DRM, CD/DVD-checks, password tests etc only affect the paying customer and as seen in past games it even can do harm to the game itself. The guy who uses the cracked version will never be annoyed by DRM, will never have to search for the CD/DVD and will never need to look up a password.</p><p>Also: Illegal downloads don't equal missed sales. Those downloads are for free, and the kid who downloaded it probably never would have had the money to buy those 100 pirated games on his HD anyway. He maybe would have been able to buy one or two, and perhaps he even did!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM , CD/DVD-checks , password tests etc only affect the paying customer and as seen in past games it even can do harm to the game itself .
The guy who uses the cracked version will never be annoyed by DRM , will never have to search for the CD/DVD and will never need to look up a password.Also : Illegal downloads do n't equal missed sales .
Those downloads are for free , and the kid who downloaded it probably never would have had the money to buy those 100 pirated games on his HD anyway .
He maybe would have been able to buy one or two , and perhaps he even did !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM, CD/DVD-checks, password tests etc only affect the paying customer and as seen in past games it even can do harm to the game itself.
The guy who uses the cracked version will never be annoyed by DRM, will never have to search for the CD/DVD and will never need to look up a password.Also: Illegal downloads don't equal missed sales.
Those downloads are for free, and the kid who downloaded it probably never would have had the money to buy those 100 pirated games on his HD anyway.
He maybe would have been able to buy one or two, and perhaps he even did!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011450</id>
	<title>Extra DRM = no sales to me at least.</title>
	<author>RMingin</author>
	<datestamp>1264960020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know I'm not the only example that matters, but I buy almost all my games on Steam these days. When buying on Steam, I check the listing for third party DRM.</p><p>If your product has third-party DRM on Steam, I DO NOT BUY IT. Period. No exceptions.</p><p>You can check this as well. There are a few where I was misinformed or the terms changed after purchase (Damn you Far Cry 2!!!), but I'd like to point out Borderlands, which I paid full price for and enjoy thoroughly, and the LACK of either of the DLCs, since they use third-party DRM over Steam's. I've heard that I'm missing nothing with Moxxi, but Zombie Island was very very fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know I 'm not the only example that matters , but I buy almost all my games on Steam these days .
When buying on Steam , I check the listing for third party DRM.If your product has third-party DRM on Steam , I DO NOT BUY IT .
Period. No exceptions.You can check this as well .
There are a few where I was misinformed or the terms changed after purchase ( Damn you Far Cry 2 ! ! !
) , but I 'd like to point out Borderlands , which I paid full price for and enjoy thoroughly , and the LACK of either of the DLCs , since they use third-party DRM over Steam 's .
I 've heard that I 'm missing nothing with Moxxi , but Zombie Island was very very fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know I'm not the only example that matters, but I buy almost all my games on Steam these days.
When buying on Steam, I check the listing for third party DRM.If your product has third-party DRM on Steam, I DO NOT BUY IT.
Period. No exceptions.You can check this as well.
There are a few where I was misinformed or the terms changed after purchase (Damn you Far Cry 2!!!
), but I'd like to point out Borderlands, which I paid full price for and enjoy thoroughly, and the LACK of either of the DLCs, since they use third-party DRM over Steam's.
I've heard that I'm missing nothing with Moxxi, but Zombie Island was very very fun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008188</id>
	<title>If it has no effect</title>
	<author>xant</author>
	<datestamp>1264941540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then stop doing it.  DRM has a development and/or licensing cost associated with it.  If using is the same as not using it, then don't use it, and you'll save that money.  It's very simple to do a value proposition when the value is zero.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then stop doing it .
DRM has a development and/or licensing cost associated with it .
If using is the same as not using it , then do n't use it , and you 'll save that money .
It 's very simple to do a value proposition when the value is zero .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then stop doing it.
DRM has a development and/or licensing cost associated with it.
If using is the same as not using it, then don't use it, and you'll save that money.
It's very simple to do a value proposition when the value is zero.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007644</id>
	<title>Why hasn't Blu-Ray been cracked?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264934700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That, and SACD. Still locked down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That , and SACD .
Still locked down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That, and SACD.
Still locked down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31015222</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>CorporateSuit</author>
	<datestamp>1264934400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to feel the same way.  I was very buggered about the idea that the Half Life 2 I purchased had to install some crappy network "service program" and all.  Worse, when my HL2 game glitched out (I found myself caught in an endless hallway, IIRC), it seemed my modding options to fix it were closed off.  So long Steam for about 5 years.<br> <br>
Then, the sirens' cry called me back by offering me games that I love for oh, so cheap.  "King's Bounty and Armored Princess for $11?  I just can't stay mad at you can I?"<br> <br>
I guess that means I'm a no-good whore now, but I stood by my convictions for a half-decade!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to feel the same way .
I was very buggered about the idea that the Half Life 2 I purchased had to install some crappy network " service program " and all .
Worse , when my HL2 game glitched out ( I found myself caught in an endless hallway , IIRC ) , it seemed my modding options to fix it were closed off .
So long Steam for about 5 years .
Then , the sirens ' cry called me back by offering me games that I love for oh , so cheap .
" King 's Bounty and Armored Princess for $ 11 ?
I just ca n't stay mad at you can I ?
" I guess that means I 'm a no-good whore now , but I stood by my convictions for a half-decade !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to feel the same way.
I was very buggered about the idea that the Half Life 2 I purchased had to install some crappy network "service program" and all.
Worse, when my HL2 game glitched out (I found myself caught in an endless hallway, IIRC), it seemed my modding options to fix it were closed off.
So long Steam for about 5 years.
Then, the sirens' cry called me back by offering me games that I love for oh, so cheap.
"King's Bounty and Armored Princess for $11?
I just can't stay mad at you can I?
" 
I guess that means I'm a no-good whore now, but I stood by my convictions for a half-decade!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008468</id>
	<title>Re:Games should come with a DRM warning on the box</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1264945260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality, and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine"</p></div><p>In many countries, such a disclaimer would not absolve them of responsibility if they did hose your box.  With the added bonus that the disclaimer would basically amount to written confirmation that this could happen.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality , and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine " In many countries , such a disclaimer would not absolve them of responsibility if they did hose your box .
With the added bonus that the disclaimer would basically amount to written confirmation that this could happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The security measures used to restrict the unauthorized use of this software may cause your computer to experience partial or total loss of functionality, and may conflict with other software or hardware you may have installed on this machine"In many countries, such a disclaimer would not absolve them of responsibility if they did hose your box.
With the added bonus that the disclaimer would basically amount to written confirmation that this could happen.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31011616</id>
	<title>Re:If more DRM = More Sales, lock the game down ha</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264960680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Don't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code.  Don't let the user even play the full game.  Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.</p><p>Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.</p></div><p>Well, it's not quite a certified letter, but if you accept the <a href="http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en\_US&amp;articleId=24660" title="blizzard.com" rel="nofollow">Battle.net Authenticator</a> [blizzard.com] as the secret code you need to enter, Blizzard pretty much already does that. Sure, you only need to enter the secret code once per gaming session and not once per level, but that's close enough, I think.</p><p>And you forgot the part where you <em>charge</em> your players $15/month for the <em>privilege</em> of downloading the other half of the game.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It will sell trillions of copies!</p></div><p>Well, maybe not trillions, but World of Warcraft is up in the tens of millions.</p><p>And you thought you were joking, didn't you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code .
Do n't let the user even play the full game .
Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.Well , it 's not quite a certified letter , but if you accept the Battle.net Authenticator [ blizzard.com ] as the secret code you need to enter , Blizzard pretty much already does that .
Sure , you only need to enter the secret code once per gaming session and not once per level , but that 's close enough , I think.And you forgot the part where you charge your players $ 15/month for the privilege of downloading the other half of the game.It will sell trillions of copies ! Well , maybe not trillions , but World of Warcraft is up in the tens of millions.And you thought you were joking , did n't you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't allow users to even see the screen without making receiving a certified letter from the publisher with a secret code.
Don't let the user even play the full game.
Force them to download large chunks of it from your server after releasing only half of it on disc.Store integral parts of every level on a master server that can only be accessed by pausing the game and entering the secret code.Well, it's not quite a certified letter, but if you accept the Battle.net Authenticator [blizzard.com] as the secret code you need to enter, Blizzard pretty much already does that.
Sure, you only need to enter the secret code once per gaming session and not once per level, but that's close enough, I think.And you forgot the part where you charge your players $15/month for the privilege of downloading the other half of the game.It will sell trillions of copies!Well, maybe not trillions, but World of Warcraft is up in the tens of millions.And you thought you were joking, didn't you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007938</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007760</id>
	<title>Errr...</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1264936260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway.</p></div><p>A DRM-free game doesn't need a crack.<br> <br>Just pointing that out...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems any game , even if it 's $ 0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend , will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway.A DRM-free game does n't need a crack .
Just pointing that out.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems any game, even if it's $0.99 has a five hour demo and is DRM-free and done by a nobel-peace prize winning game design legend, will be cracked and distributed on day one by some self righteous teenager anyway.A DRM-free game doesn't need a crack.
Just pointing that out...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008066</id>
	<title>Re:It's about used games</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1264939920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right. Activation limits and all that crap do work against used games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right .
Activation limits and all that crap do work against used games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right.
Activation limits and all that crap do work against used games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31014120</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>kalirion</author>
	<datestamp>1264928580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>That's nonsense. If the servers go down, I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer.</i></p><p>May I direct your attention <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117212" title="steampowered.com">here</a> [steampowered.com] and <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115676" title="steampowered.com">here</a> [steampowered.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's nonsense .
If the servers go down , I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer.May I direct your attention here [ steampowered.com ] and here [ steampowered.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's nonsense.
If the servers go down, I can still play whatever is currently installed that is non-multiplayer.May I direct your attention here [steampowered.com] and here [steampowered.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007578</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1264933860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or they could just, you know, be like me and <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-mt4BpnfAN-o/how\_anti\_piracy\_screws\_over\_people\_who\_buy\_pc\_games/" title="metacafe.com">this guy</a> [metacafe.com] (warning: language NSFW but can you blame him?) and downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM doesn't work!</p><p>Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses. If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times. I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.</p><p>And be sure to place close attention to the background in that video. Notice the huge mounds of game boxes? Here he is a major customer and what does he get for doing the right thing and buying? Well he gets spit upon, that's what? Does the DRM do jack shit to stop piracy? Hell no! In fact the nastier DRM like Spore gets cracked even quicker than the others! It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore, simply because I don't have the cracked version yet. Once I have a working crack then and ONLY then will I buy, because I am frankly tired of shelling out $50+ for a paperweight I can even return when it is defective by design! </p><p>Meanwhile the pirates are laughing their asses off, because <em> their version</em> just works straight out of the box, no hassles and no bullshit, meanwhile the ones that DO work expect me to hop up and change discs every. single. time. I want to play a game. WTF? Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gonna treat me like I'm using an x360?</p><p>You want to cut down on piracy, game publishers? Instead of ass raping us with ever higher prices, "multiplatform" games that are nothing but really shitty x360 games, less and less game thanks to the lack of dedicated servers and the scourge that is DLC, how about giving us real value for our money, hmmm? How about that? EA got me to shell out for MOH:10th anniversary even though I heard Airborne wasn't great by offering me MORE value for my money! For $25 I got Airborne, Allied Assault with the two expansions, Pacific Assault the Director's Cut, and a making of, a WW2 Pacific War interactive timeline, and a music of MOH CD. All of the big game houses have older games, why not throw us a couple of older titles in? Why not a music CD or making of?</p><p>

 But there isn't any surprise as to why there is so much piracy now. I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x, and never before have we gamers been treated so badly, charged so much for substandard fare, and generally spit upon for daring to pay good money. Is it any wonder so many say fuck it and get the actually working pirate version? And sorry about the length, but I am so damned sick of how shitty we gamers are being treated by these gaming corps. If we buy they spit in our faces and screw us over every chance they get, if we boycott they just scream "piracy!" and bribe our politicians to get nastier laws and put even worse DRM in. either way we are royally screwed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or they could just , you know , be like me and this guy [ metacafe.com ] ( warning : language NSFW but can you blame him ?
) and downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM does n't work ! Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses .
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together , or either of those with any other like SafeDisc , well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly , because you will be getting a taste of those times .
I ca n't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were " dirty evil filthy pirates " for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.And be sure to place close attention to the background in that video .
Notice the huge mounds of game boxes ?
Here he is a major customer and what does he get for doing the right thing and buying ?
Well he gets spit upon , that 's what ?
Does the DRM do jack shit to stop piracy ?
Hell no !
In fact the nastier DRM like Spore gets cracked even quicker than the others !
It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore , simply because I do n't have the cracked version yet .
Once I have a working crack then and ONLY then will I buy , because I am frankly tired of shelling out $ 50 + for a paperweight I can even return when it is defective by design !
Meanwhile the pirates are laughing their asses off , because their version just works straight out of the box , no hassles and no bullshit , meanwhile the ones that DO work expect me to hop up and change discs every .
single. time .
I want to play a game .
WTF ? Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gon na treat me like I 'm using an x360 ? You want to cut down on piracy , game publishers ?
Instead of ass raping us with ever higher prices , " multiplatform " games that are nothing but really shitty x360 games , less and less game thanks to the lack of dedicated servers and the scourge that is DLC , how about giving us real value for our money , hmmm ?
How about that ?
EA got me to shell out for MOH : 10th anniversary even though I heard Airborne was n't great by offering me MORE value for my money !
For $ 25 I got Airborne , Allied Assault with the two expansions , Pacific Assault the Director 's Cut , and a making of , a WW2 Pacific War interactive timeline , and a music of MOH CD .
All of the big game houses have older games , why not throw us a couple of older titles in ?
Why not a music CD or making of ?
But there is n't any surprise as to why there is so much piracy now .
I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x , and never before have we gamers been treated so badly , charged so much for substandard fare , and generally spit upon for daring to pay good money .
Is it any wonder so many say fuck it and get the actually working pirate version ?
And sorry about the length , but I am so damned sick of how shitty we gamers are being treated by these gaming corps .
If we buy they spit in our faces and screw us over every chance they get , if we boycott they just scream " piracy !
" and bribe our politicians to get nastier laws and put even worse DRM in .
either way we are royally screwed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or they could just, you know, be like me and this guy [metacafe.com] (warning: language NSFW but can you blame him?
) and downloading cracked versions of games we already bought because the shitty DRM doesn't work!Being in PC repair I can attest that the latest DRM can be worse than most viruses.
If you get Starforce or SecuROM mixed together, or either of those with any other like SafeDisc, well lets just say I hope you look back on the days of unstable Win9x fondly, because you will be getting a taste of those times.
I can't even count the number of DVD drives of customers I had to throw away because Starforce or SecuROM decided they were "dirty evil filthy pirates" for actually having a burner and threw it into PIO mode and burned their drive smooth up.And be sure to place close attention to the background in that video.
Notice the huge mounds of game boxes?
Here he is a major customer and what does he get for doing the right thing and buying?
Well he gets spit upon, that's what?
Does the DRM do jack shit to stop piracy?
Hell no!
In fact the nastier DRM like Spore gets cracked even quicker than the others!
It has gotten so bad with shitty DRM that I refuse to buy at release day anymore, simply because I don't have the cracked version yet.
Once I have a working crack then and ONLY then will I buy, because I am frankly tired of shelling out $50+ for a paperweight I can even return when it is defective by design!
Meanwhile the pirates are laughing their asses off, because  their version just works straight out of the box, no hassles and no bullshit, meanwhile the ones that DO work expect me to hop up and change discs every.
single. time.
I want to play a game.
WTF? Why did I spend all this money on fat hard drives when you ass clowns are gonna treat me like I'm using an x360?You want to cut down on piracy, game publishers?
Instead of ass raping us with ever higher prices, "multiplatform" games that are nothing but really shitty x360 games, less and less game thanks to the lack of dedicated servers and the scourge that is DLC, how about giving us real value for our money, hmmm?
How about that?
EA got me to shell out for MOH:10th anniversary even though I heard Airborne wasn't great by offering me MORE value for my money!
For $25 I got Airborne, Allied Assault with the two expansions, Pacific Assault the Director's Cut, and a making of, a WW2 Pacific War interactive timeline, and a music of MOH CD.
All of the big game houses have older games, why not throw us a couple of older titles in?
Why not a music CD or making of?
But there isn't any surprise as to why there is so much piracy now.
I have been gaming since the days of Win3.x, and never before have we gamers been treated so badly, charged so much for substandard fare, and generally spit upon for daring to pay good money.
Is it any wonder so many say fuck it and get the actually working pirate version?
And sorry about the length, but I am so damned sick of how shitty we gamers are being treated by these gaming corps.
If we buy they spit in our faces and screw us over every chance they get, if we boycott they just scream "piracy!
" and bribe our politicians to get nastier laws and put even worse DRM in.
either way we are royally screwed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31017492</id>
	<title>Re:Great argument for DRM</title>
	<author>PaganRitual</author>
	<datestamp>1264946100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure how you got to +5 Insightful but you might want to re-read what he said a few times, because you've clearly completely mis-interpreted it.</p><p>He has, I thought quite clearly, said that the piracy rates of his game seem unaffected since he stopped using DRM. It's not an argument for it, it's an argument to not bother, because with or without DRM the piracy rates appear similar. It's the piracy itself that is the "unavoidable fact" that he makes reference to.</p><p>Maybe thats where you and at least 4 other people got confused. I honestly can't see how you could have possibly read it in the way that your analogy reads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure how you got to + 5 Insightful but you might want to re-read what he said a few times , because you 've clearly completely mis-interpreted it.He has , I thought quite clearly , said that the piracy rates of his game seem unaffected since he stopped using DRM .
It 's not an argument for it , it 's an argument to not bother , because with or without DRM the piracy rates appear similar .
It 's the piracy itself that is the " unavoidable fact " that he makes reference to.Maybe thats where you and at least 4 other people got confused .
I honestly ca n't see how you could have possibly read it in the way that your analogy reads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure how you got to +5 Insightful but you might want to re-read what he said a few times, because you've clearly completely mis-interpreted it.He has, I thought quite clearly, said that the piracy rates of his game seem unaffected since he stopped using DRM.
It's not an argument for it, it's an argument to not bother, because with or without DRM the piracy rates appear similar.
It's the piracy itself that is the "unavoidable fact" that he makes reference to.Maybe thats where you and at least 4 other people got confused.
I honestly can't see how you could have possibly read it in the way that your analogy reads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010964</id>
	<title>Re:Unavoidable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264958220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>errr...  you lose quite a bit of credibility with your last point...  the game is fun to play (and for the sake of argument, has no onerous DRM to get in the way), but you feel it's unreasonable to have to pay for it because you're only using it for a few hours a week/month/whatever?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>errr... you lose quite a bit of credibility with your last point... the game is fun to play ( and for the sake of argument , has no onerous DRM to get in the way ) , but you feel it 's unreasonable to have to pay for it because you 're only using it for a few hours a week/month/whatever ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>errr...  you lose quite a bit of credibility with your last point...  the game is fun to play (and for the sake of argument, has no onerous DRM to get in the way), but you feel it's unreasonable to have to pay for it because you're only using it for a few hours a week/month/whatever?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31009800</id>
	<title>DRM only affects paying customers</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1264953540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anybody who wants to pirate the game, can.  There'll be a cracked copy available for download within days.  DRM is not going to force anybody to pay for a game if they would rather have it free.</p><p>So the pirates are all playing their games without DRM.  They don't have to make sure there's a disc in the drive...  They don't have to wait while it phones home...  They don't have to worry about how many times they've re-installed the software...  They don't have to install extra security software to protect the publisher's revenue stream...  They don't have to worry about the DRM servers shutting down, or their account getting banned, or somebody else stealing their key and being unable to play their game...</p><p>And the paying customers, who shelled out $50+ of their hard-earned cash, have to deal with all the DRM crap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody who wants to pirate the game , can .
There 'll be a cracked copy available for download within days .
DRM is not going to force anybody to pay for a game if they would rather have it free.So the pirates are all playing their games without DRM .
They do n't have to make sure there 's a disc in the drive... They do n't have to wait while it phones home... They do n't have to worry about how many times they 've re-installed the software... They do n't have to install extra security software to protect the publisher 's revenue stream... They do n't have to worry about the DRM servers shutting down , or their account getting banned , or somebody else stealing their key and being unable to play their game...And the paying customers , who shelled out $ 50 + of their hard-earned cash , have to deal with all the DRM crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody who wants to pirate the game, can.
There'll be a cracked copy available for download within days.
DRM is not going to force anybody to pay for a game if they would rather have it free.So the pirates are all playing their games without DRM.
They don't have to make sure there's a disc in the drive...  They don't have to wait while it phones home...  They don't have to worry about how many times they've re-installed the software...  They don't have to install extra security software to protect the publisher's revenue stream...  They don't have to worry about the DRM servers shutting down, or their account getting banned, or somebody else stealing their key and being unable to play their game...And the paying customers, who shelled out $50+ of their hard-earned cash, have to deal with all the DRM crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008292</id>
	<title>Re:Living here in Korea</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1264942740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.</p></div><p>If this is true then it's very telling - even in a society where piracy is the <i>de facto</i> norm and DRM is no use whatsoever, it's the legitimate customers who still get screwed, instead of trying to encourage people to do the right thing by offering benefit to those customers. If companies want DRM to protect their products that's their choice, but if it impedes my enjoyment of said product in any way, or increases the amount of hassle I have to go through to use that product, or significantly increases the cost, or means I can't use the product in the event of the company going under, then I'll keep my money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.If this is true then it 's very telling - even in a society where piracy is the de facto norm and DRM is no use whatsoever , it 's the legitimate customers who still get screwed , instead of trying to encourage people to do the right thing by offering benefit to those customers .
If companies want DRM to protect their products that 's their choice , but if it impedes my enjoyment of said product in any way , or increases the amount of hassle I have to go through to use that product , or significantly increases the cost , or means I ca n't use the product in the event of the company going under , then I 'll keep my money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft even jacked the price up on Vista when they released it here to try to bleed some of the losses out of the few remaining customers.If this is true then it's very telling - even in a society where piracy is the de facto norm and DRM is no use whatsoever, it's the legitimate customers who still get screwed, instead of trying to encourage people to do the right thing by offering benefit to those customers.
If companies want DRM to protect their products that's their choice, but if it impedes my enjoyment of said product in any way, or increases the amount of hassle I have to go through to use that product, or significantly increases the cost, or means I can't use the product in the event of the company going under, then I'll keep my money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008124</id>
	<title>Direct purchase Vs MicroTransactions</title>
	<author>foolserrend1975</author>
	<datestamp>1264940640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally I do not like MicroTransactions. I feel like I am being Nickle and Dimed the entire way.

However I do recognise that this is a way of getting people to "buy" the game rather than pirate. I would suggest that both "buying the game" and MicroTransactions can co-exist. ie I would LOVE a gamemodel where you could do the following

1 - Free Download - MicroTransations automatically turned on
2 - At any point in time the user can chose to "Buy the game" at the normal sticker price and will get access to all "MicroTransaction" content.

Of course, when significant additional content (ie expansions) are added, this is not a microtransaction, this is another standalone product that has its own cost and microtransactions.

This would NOT eliminate piracy, but it would take a significant step towards more user friendly business model and should enouch more people to play and buy (and no more f'ing DRM)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I do not like MicroTransactions .
I feel like I am being Nickle and Dimed the entire way .
However I do recognise that this is a way of getting people to " buy " the game rather than pirate .
I would suggest that both " buying the game " and MicroTransactions can co-exist .
ie I would LOVE a gamemodel where you could do the following 1 - Free Download - MicroTransations automatically turned on 2 - At any point in time the user can chose to " Buy the game " at the normal sticker price and will get access to all " MicroTransaction " content .
Of course , when significant additional content ( ie expansions ) are added , this is not a microtransaction , this is another standalone product that has its own cost and microtransactions .
This would NOT eliminate piracy , but it would take a significant step towards more user friendly business model and should enouch more people to play and buy ( and no more f'ing DRM )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I do not like MicroTransactions.
I feel like I am being Nickle and Dimed the entire way.
However I do recognise that this is a way of getting people to "buy" the game rather than pirate.
I would suggest that both "buying the game" and MicroTransactions can co-exist.
ie I would LOVE a gamemodel where you could do the following

1 - Free Download - MicroTransations automatically turned on
2 - At any point in time the user can chose to "Buy the game" at the normal sticker price and will get access to all "MicroTransaction" content.
Of course, when significant additional content (ie expansions) are added, this is not a microtransaction, this is another standalone product that has its own cost and microtransactions.
This would NOT eliminate piracy, but it would take a significant step towards more user friendly business model and should enouch more people to play and buy (and no more f'ing DRM)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010264</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>slimjim8094</author>
	<datestamp>1264955520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree. I find that the DRM in Steam is value-added, actually. When I move to a new computer (even a friend's computer) I can download my games and be up and running in a few hours.</p><p>If you think Steam's DRM is bad, should every user have access to every game, but reminded to "only install games from this list that you've bought"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
I find that the DRM in Steam is value-added , actually .
When I move to a new computer ( even a friend 's computer ) I can download my games and be up and running in a few hours.If you think Steam 's DRM is bad , should every user have access to every game , but reminded to " only install games from this list that you 've bought " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
I find that the DRM in Steam is value-added, actually.
When I move to a new computer (even a friend's computer) I can download my games and be up and running in a few hours.If you think Steam's DRM is bad, should every user have access to every game, but reminded to "only install games from this list that you've bought"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31019058</id>
	<title>Can't Steam dissipate over time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264960920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I stopped buying games when Half Life 2 required the DRM known as "Steam."  I loved Half Life 1, but I play games on PCs never connected to the Internet.  I would have loved to buy Half Life 2 but Valve didn't want me to.</p><p>Obviously they didn't miss my sale, or the thousands or millions of potential sales like mine that were never consummated.  According to various websites (e.g. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life\_2" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life\_2</a> [wikipedia.org] ) the game has sold more than 6.5 million copies at retail and more than that directly through Steam.  So obviously the DRM has been a profitable move for Valve.</p><p>But<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the game was first released more than five years ago, on November 16, 2004.  After all this time, and all this profit, I don't understand why Valve doesn't let the Steam dissipate and finally allow OTC sales that work without Internet authentication.</p><p>Valve, this potential buyer is still waiting for you to do the right thing.  After five years, why not loosen your grip a little?</p><p>I'm sure I could easily pirate the game but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... why bother?  One factor I never hear people talk about when they discuss DRM is how DRM sours the whole game experience.  The game itself becomes unattractive if tainted with DRM.  Imagine if you were eager to see the movie Avatar in the movie theater but you learned that at every theater where it is showing you first had to swim through a foul cesspool before you could reach the line where you buy tickets and enter the theater.  All of a sudden, you're not as eager to see the movie after all.  It's a natural reaction of the human mind to compensate and tell itself, "You know what?  That movie probably sucks anyway.  I'm a lot less eager to see it now, even if they removed the cesspool."</p><p>Do you get it, content publishers?  DRM doesn't just suck in and of itself.  It actually taints the content.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped buying games when Half Life 2 required the DRM known as " Steam .
" I loved Half Life 1 , but I play games on PCs never connected to the Internet .
I would have loved to buy Half Life 2 but Valve did n't want me to.Obviously they did n't miss my sale , or the thousands or millions of potential sales like mine that were never consummated .
According to various websites ( e.g .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life \ _2 [ wikipedia.org ] ) the game has sold more than 6.5 million copies at retail and more than that directly through Steam .
So obviously the DRM has been a profitable move for Valve.But ... the game was first released more than five years ago , on November 16 , 2004 .
After all this time , and all this profit , I do n't understand why Valve does n't let the Steam dissipate and finally allow OTC sales that work without Internet authentication.Valve , this potential buyer is still waiting for you to do the right thing .
After five years , why not loosen your grip a little ? I 'm sure I could easily pirate the game but ... why bother ?
One factor I never hear people talk about when they discuss DRM is how DRM sours the whole game experience .
The game itself becomes unattractive if tainted with DRM .
Imagine if you were eager to see the movie Avatar in the movie theater but you learned that at every theater where it is showing you first had to swim through a foul cesspool before you could reach the line where you buy tickets and enter the theater .
All of a sudden , you 're not as eager to see the movie after all .
It 's a natural reaction of the human mind to compensate and tell itself , " You know what ?
That movie probably sucks anyway .
I 'm a lot less eager to see it now , even if they removed the cesspool .
" Do you get it , content publishers ?
DRM does n't just suck in and of itself .
It actually taints the content .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped buying games when Half Life 2 required the DRM known as "Steam.
"  I loved Half Life 1, but I play games on PCs never connected to the Internet.
I would have loved to buy Half Life 2 but Valve didn't want me to.Obviously they didn't miss my sale, or the thousands or millions of potential sales like mine that were never consummated.
According to various websites (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life\_2 [wikipedia.org] ) the game has sold more than 6.5 million copies at retail and more than that directly through Steam.
So obviously the DRM has been a profitable move for Valve.But ... the game was first released more than five years ago, on November 16, 2004.
After all this time, and all this profit, I don't understand why Valve doesn't let the Steam dissipate and finally allow OTC sales that work without Internet authentication.Valve, this potential buyer is still waiting for you to do the right thing.
After five years, why not loosen your grip a little?I'm sure I could easily pirate the game but ... why bother?
One factor I never hear people talk about when they discuss DRM is how DRM sours the whole game experience.
The game itself becomes unattractive if tainted with DRM.
Imagine if you were eager to see the movie Avatar in the movie theater but you learned that at every theater where it is showing you first had to swim through a foul cesspool before you could reach the line where you buy tickets and enter the theater.
All of a sudden, you're not as eager to see the movie after all.
It's a natural reaction of the human mind to compensate and tell itself, "You know what?
That movie probably sucks anyway.
I'm a lot less eager to see it now, even if they removed the cesspool.
"Do you get it, content publishers?
DRM doesn't just suck in and of itself.
It actually taints the content.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008540</id>
	<title>Re:Legitimate Customers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264945860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Steam is the worst possible DRM.</p><p>You have to ask permission to play.<br>You have to agree to a legally binding contract that gives Steam the right to revoke your "purchase" at any time.</p><p>Would you buy a car if the dealer had an option to come into your garage and take it back at their whim.  Even if you'd paid for it in cash up front?</p><p>Fairplay, Impulse, disc in drive, CSS are all examples of good DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Steam is the worst possible DRM.You have to ask permission to play.You have to agree to a legally binding contract that gives Steam the right to revoke your " purchase " at any time.Would you buy a car if the dealer had an option to come into your garage and take it back at their whim .
Even if you 'd paid for it in cash up front ? Fairplay , Impulse , disc in drive , CSS are all examples of good DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steam is the worst possible DRM.You have to ask permission to play.You have to agree to a legally binding contract that gives Steam the right to revoke your "purchase" at any time.Would you buy a car if the dealer had an option to come into your garage and take it back at their whim.
Even if you'd paid for it in cash up front?Fairplay, Impulse, disc in drive, CSS are all examples of good DRM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31007444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31180406</id>
	<title>Re:Someone got it right (at least for old games)</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1265046480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, thanks, I never knew that Prince of Persia Sands of Time came out on the PC at all.  Damn cheap too, I think I'll go buy that instead of shelling out for the DRM-raped Asassin's Creed 2.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , thanks , I never knew that Prince of Persia Sands of Time came out on the PC at all .
Damn cheap too , I think I 'll go buy that instead of shelling out for the DRM-raped Asassin 's Creed 2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, thanks, I never knew that Prince of Persia Sands of Time came out on the PC at all.
Damn cheap too, I think I'll go buy that instead of shelling out for the DRM-raped Asassin's Creed 2.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31008352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_03_0730236.31010416</id>
	<title>I don't buy games with DRM</title>
	<author>Dan667</author>
	<datestamp>1264956300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And am seeing more and more people change their decisions as they are impacted by DRM on software they actually purchased, but can no longer use.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And am seeing more and more people change their decisions as they are impacted by DRM on software they actually purchased , but can no longer use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And am seeing more and more people change their decisions as they are impacted by DRM on software they actually purchased, but can no longer use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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