<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_02_1458230</id>
	<title>Woz Cites "Scary" Prius Acceleration Software Problem</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1265124000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"Speaking at Discovery Forum 2010, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak went off topic and spoke about <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924\_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0">a 'very scary' problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius</a>. 'I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right,' said Woz, who went on to explain he'd been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration for three months, but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem. 'I have a new model that didn't get recalled,' Steve said. 'This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again &mdash; safely.' Toyota said it investigates all complaints. 'We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies,' said Toyota's John Hanson. 'After man-years of exhaustive testing we have not found any evidence of an electronic [software] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration.'"</i>
We recently discussed <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/01/31/2017247/Toyota-Pedal-Issue-Highlights-Move-To-Electronics">other problems Toyota has had</a> with electronic acceleration systems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " Speaking at Discovery Forum 2010 , Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak went off topic and spoke about a 'very scary ' problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius .
'I do n't get upset and teed off at things in life , except computers that do n't work right, ' said Woz , who went on to explain he 'd been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration for three months , but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem .
'I have a new model that did n't get recalled, ' Steve said .
'This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control .
And I can repeat it over and over and over again    safely .
' Toyota said it investigates all complaints .
'We 're in the business of investigating complaints , assessing problems and finding remedies, ' said Toyota 's John Hanson .
'After man-years of exhaustive testing we have not found any evidence of an electronic [ software ] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration .
' " We recently discussed other problems Toyota has had with electronic acceleration systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "Speaking at Discovery Forum 2010, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak went off topic and spoke about a 'very scary' problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius.
'I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right,' said Woz, who went on to explain he'd been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration for three months, but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem.
'I have a new model that didn't get recalled,' Steve said.
'This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control.
And I can repeat it over and over and over again — safely.
' Toyota said it investigates all complaints.
'We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies,' said Toyota's John Hanson.
'After man-years of exhaustive testing we have not found any evidence of an electronic [software] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration.
'"
We recently discussed other problems Toyota has had with electronic acceleration systems.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</id>
	<title>This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing. Safety critical systems like steering, brakes and acceleration should never require electronics to controlled properly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing .
Safety critical systems like steering , brakes and acceleration should never require electronics to controlled properly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing.
Safety critical systems like steering, brakes and acceleration should never require electronics to controlled properly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000230</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1265144160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is PR nightmare time for Toyota. It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times.</p></div></blockquote><p>Interestingly enough, the Firestore issue wasn't really a problem.  The tires were rated for a specific speed, and the drivers went long distances well above that speed in harsh conditions.</p><p>The were driven out of spec by idiots in large SUVs who had no business driving in the first place.</p><p>They made changes to the tires used anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that the problem was the driver running the tire well outside its spec'd rating, not just poor quality tires.</p><p>That ordeal is roughly the same as blaming AMD because you overclocked/overvolted your CPU by 50\% on both and it went up in a small puff of smoke.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is PR nightmare time for Toyota .
It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times.Interestingly enough , the Firestore issue was n't really a problem .
The tires were rated for a specific speed , and the drivers went long distances well above that speed in harsh conditions.The were driven out of spec by idiots in large SUVs who had no business driving in the first place.They made changes to the tires used anyway , but it does n't change the fact that the problem was the driver running the tire well outside its spec 'd rating , not just poor quality tires.That ordeal is roughly the same as blaming AMD because you overclocked/overvolted your CPU by 50 \ % on both and it went up in a small puff of smoke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is PR nightmare time for Toyota.
It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times.Interestingly enough, the Firestore issue wasn't really a problem.
The tires were rated for a specific speed, and the drivers went long distances well above that speed in harsh conditions.The were driven out of spec by idiots in large SUVs who had no business driving in the first place.They made changes to the tires used anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that the problem was the driver running the tire well outside its spec'd rating, not just poor quality tires.That ordeal is roughly the same as blaming AMD because you overclocked/overvolted your CPU by 50\% on both and it went up in a small puff of smoke.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997738</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1265134560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A Public Service Announcement to All Toyota Drivers</p></div>
</blockquote><p>That's all good and well if you own a Toyota, but what do I do if my Honda starts accelerating uncontrollably?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A Public Service Announcement to All Toyota Drivers That 's all good and well if you own a Toyota , but what do I do if my Honda starts accelerating uncontrollably ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Public Service Announcement to All Toyota Drivers
That's all good and well if you own a Toyota, but what do I do if my Honda starts accelerating uncontrollably?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001738</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your solution involved perpetuating this fucking datastore mess that they use, I'd like to choke you.  If not, ignore me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your solution involved perpetuating this fucking datastore mess that they use , I 'd like to choke you .
If not , ignore me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your solution involved perpetuating this fucking datastore mess that they use, I'd like to choke you.
If not, ignore me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996494</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265130420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the key is in the ignition, the wheel lock is disengaged - at least it works this way on my car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the key is in the ignition , the wheel lock is disengaged - at least it works this way on my car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the key is in the ignition, the wheel lock is disengaged - at least it works this way on my car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995950</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>putaro</author>
	<datestamp>1265128680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, if testing was perfect there would be no bugs out in the field.  Hmmmm...</p><p>I learned a long time ago that when I say my product "shouldn't" do something that's not the same as it "doesn't" do something.  When I have a user come to me and tell me that's it doing something I don't think it "should" be doing, I start by believing that they are seeing the issue they tell me they're seeing.  Often it turns out that they are not seeing what they think they're seeing, but some times it turns out that what I think the product should do is not reality.</p><p>Here we have someone who claims to have a reproducible test case.  That's gold when you're trying to track down a problem.  It may turn out to be some manufacturing defect peculiar to his car, it could be that what he thinks is a bug is really a feature, but it's definitely worth looking into, especially when your company (Toyota) is losing millions of dollars ever day because of the possibility of this bug being real.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if testing was perfect there would be no bugs out in the field .
Hmmmm...I learned a long time ago that when I say my product " should n't " do something that 's not the same as it " does n't " do something .
When I have a user come to me and tell me that 's it doing something I do n't think it " should " be doing , I start by believing that they are seeing the issue they tell me they 're seeing .
Often it turns out that they are not seeing what they think they 're seeing , but some times it turns out that what I think the product should do is not reality.Here we have someone who claims to have a reproducible test case .
That 's gold when you 're trying to track down a problem .
It may turn out to be some manufacturing defect peculiar to his car , it could be that what he thinks is a bug is really a feature , but it 's definitely worth looking into , especially when your company ( Toyota ) is losing millions of dollars ever day because of the possibility of this bug being real .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if testing was perfect there would be no bugs out in the field.
Hmmmm...I learned a long time ago that when I say my product "shouldn't" do something that's not the same as it "doesn't" do something.
When I have a user come to me and tell me that's it doing something I don't think it "should" be doing, I start by believing that they are seeing the issue they tell me they're seeing.
Often it turns out that they are not seeing what they think they're seeing, but some times it turns out that what I think the product should do is not reality.Here we have someone who claims to have a reproducible test case.
That's gold when you're trying to track down a problem.
It may turn out to be some manufacturing defect peculiar to his car, it could be that what he thinks is a bug is really a feature, but it's definitely worth looking into, especially when your company (Toyota) is losing millions of dollars ever day because of the possibility of this bug being real.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999844</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Cro Magnon</author>
	<datestamp>1265142540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup, I've shifted from Drive to Neutral when going down a steep, icy hill.  It was easier controlling the car on ice with only gravity moving me, and I was moving, though verly slowly, when I shifted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , I 've shifted from Drive to Neutral when going down a steep , icy hill .
It was easier controlling the car on ice with only gravity moving me , and I was moving , though verly slowly , when I shifted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, I've shifted from Drive to Neutral when going down a steep, icy hill.
It was easier controlling the car on ice with only gravity moving me, and I was moving, though verly slowly, when I shifted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</id>
	<title>Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any car will 'accelerate wildly' under cruise control, given the right conditions, i.e. you are going up a hill and it can't maintain speed in the current gear. Here's what you do: manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed. Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any car will 'accelerate wildly ' under cruise control , given the right conditions , i.e .
you are going up a hill and it ca n't maintain speed in the current gear .
Here 's what you do : manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any car will 'accelerate wildly' under cruise control, given the right conditions, i.e.
you are going up a hill and it can't maintain speed in the current gear.
Here's what you do: manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997960</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>jandrese</author>
	<datestamp>1265135220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop.</p></div></blockquote><p>
I'll have to see the report to believe this.  Unless people were grossly negligent in servicing their brakes, this would be pretty much impossible.  Were people really stuck with runaway acceleration over the course of 50 to 100 miles?  Were the breaks really so grossly substandard that they couldn't even stop the engine?  Pretty much all cars have something on the other of 10x more breaking power than accelerating power, although I could maybe see this happening on Priuses with their relatively torquey low end thanks to the electric motors.  But even then, you're talking about "runaway acceleration" in the 5-15 mph range.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Note , in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through , indicating that once these cars took off on people , they COULD NOT stop .
I 'll have to see the report to believe this .
Unless people were grossly negligent in servicing their brakes , this would be pretty much impossible .
Were people really stuck with runaway acceleration over the course of 50 to 100 miles ?
Were the breaks really so grossly substandard that they could n't even stop the engine ?
Pretty much all cars have something on the other of 10x more breaking power than accelerating power , although I could maybe see this happening on Priuses with their relatively torquey low end thanks to the electric motors .
But even then , you 're talking about " runaway acceleration " in the 5-15 mph range .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop.
I'll have to see the report to believe this.
Unless people were grossly negligent in servicing their brakes, this would be pretty much impossible.
Were people really stuck with runaway acceleration over the course of 50 to 100 miles?
Were the breaks really so grossly substandard that they couldn't even stop the engine?
Pretty much all cars have something on the other of 10x more breaking power than accelerating power, although I could maybe see this happening on Priuses with their relatively torquey low end thanks to the electric motors.
But even then, you're talking about "runaway acceleration" in the 5-15 mph range.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000060</id>
	<title>First you have to admit you have a problem.</title>
	<author>Grand Facade</author>
	<datestamp>1265143500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A car company cannot admit they have a problem because 10,000 lawyers immediately spring up on their doorstep with their hands out.</p><p>If a car company tries to subtly fix a problem they are accused of a cover up.</p><p>No win.</p><p>The solution is to ignore the "problem" in hopes that it goes away, and maybe only have to pay x number of lawyers an undisclosed confidential amount</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A car company can not admit they have a problem because 10,000 lawyers immediately spring up on their doorstep with their hands out.If a car company tries to subtly fix a problem they are accused of a cover up.No win.The solution is to ignore the " problem " in hopes that it goes away , and maybe only have to pay x number of lawyers an undisclosed confidential amount</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car company cannot admit they have a problem because 10,000 lawyers immediately spring up on their doorstep with their hands out.If a car company tries to subtly fix a problem they are accused of a cover up.No win.The solution is to ignore the "problem" in hopes that it goes away, and maybe only have to pay x number of lawyers an undisclosed confidential amount</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001978</id>
	<title>Re:BMW and Electronic Throttle</title>
	<author>holmstar</author>
	<datestamp>1265109420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The newer BMWs are starting to do away with the throttle plate completely.  Instead, it varies how much the valves open in order to regulate the air input.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The newer BMWs are starting to do away with the throttle plate completely .
Instead , it varies how much the valves open in order to regulate the air input .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The newer BMWs are starting to do away with the throttle plate completely.
Instead, it varies how much the valves open in order to regulate the air input.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999296</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1265140140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Excuse me, but Woz does not "understand the problem", he simply experienced it. He says he can duplicate the problem at will, but doesn't say how. Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine. Boring, but fine.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Running fine because it has no serious software bugs, or because she hasn't (yet) triggered one?


</p><p>Also, Woz details this in <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">a post a couple of months ago</a> [slashdot.org].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Excuse me , but Woz does not " understand the problem " , he simply experienced it .
He says he can duplicate the problem at will , but does n't say how .
Anyway , my wife 's 2007 Prius runs fine .
Boring , but fine .
Running fine because it has no serious software bugs , or because she has n't ( yet ) triggered one ?
Also , Woz details this in a post a couple of months ago [ slashdot.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excuse me, but Woz does not "understand the problem", he simply experienced it.
He says he can duplicate the problem at will, but doesn't say how.
Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine.
Boring, but fine.
Running fine because it has no serious software bugs, or because she hasn't (yet) triggered one?
Also, Woz details this in a post a couple of months ago [slashdot.org].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997474</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265133720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Steering wheels do not lock until you remove the key from the car altogether.</p><p>I had a stuck accelerator in a '92 Sunbird once, and I did turn the ignition off. The goddamned steering locked, and although I was able to brake without power assistance, I put half the car up a curb and on the sidewalk at 35 mpg because I couldn't steer. Luckily, the road was pretty straight.</p><p>The next time that happened, I wasn't sure if the engine had a rev limiter or not, so I just overpowered it with the brakes and stalled it out from 100 mph. It's a good thing I'd had the first experience under my belt, as this time it happened on a twisty mountain road. I don't know how much power these Toyota engines put out, but front disc brakes in good condition can overpower a little ~110hp four-banger without any problems.  Mind you, they won't necessarily be in good condition *afterwards*.</p><p>There was no third time. The first time I took the car into the shop, the second time I fixed it myself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Steering wheels do not lock until you remove the key from the car altogether.I had a stuck accelerator in a '92 Sunbird once , and I did turn the ignition off .
The goddamned steering locked , and although I was able to brake without power assistance , I put half the car up a curb and on the sidewalk at 35 mpg because I could n't steer .
Luckily , the road was pretty straight.The next time that happened , I was n't sure if the engine had a rev limiter or not , so I just overpowered it with the brakes and stalled it out from 100 mph .
It 's a good thing I 'd had the first experience under my belt , as this time it happened on a twisty mountain road .
I do n't know how much power these Toyota engines put out , but front disc brakes in good condition can overpower a little ~ 110hp four-banger without any problems .
Mind you , they wo n't necessarily be in good condition * afterwards * .There was no third time .
The first time I took the car into the shop , the second time I fixed it myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Steering wheels do not lock until you remove the key from the car altogether.I had a stuck accelerator in a '92 Sunbird once, and I did turn the ignition off.
The goddamned steering locked, and although I was able to brake without power assistance, I put half the car up a curb and on the sidewalk at 35 mpg because I couldn't steer.
Luckily, the road was pretty straight.The next time that happened, I wasn't sure if the engine had a rev limiter or not, so I just overpowered it with the brakes and stalled it out from 100 mph.
It's a good thing I'd had the first experience under my belt, as this time it happened on a twisty mountain road.
I don't know how much power these Toyota engines put out, but front disc brakes in good condition can overpower a little ~110hp four-banger without any problems.
Mind you, they won't necessarily be in good condition *afterwards*.There was no third time.
The first time I took the car into the shop, the second time I fixed it myself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999312</id>
	<title>You are all stooges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265140200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are being played for fools by ad execs and propogandists.  They win, you lose.  the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. echo chamber reinforces the message.  You want to know how it works?  Follow the money.  Dumbass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are being played for fools by ad execs and propogandists .
They win , you lose .
the / .
echo chamber reinforces the message .
You want to know how it works ?
Follow the money .
Dumbass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are being played for fools by ad execs and propogandists.
They win, you lose.
the /.
echo chamber reinforces the message.
You want to know how it works?
Follow the money.
Dumbass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996670</id>
	<title>BMW and Electronic Throttle</title>
	<author>psnail</author>
	<datestamp>1265131020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe this is different from the technology that BMW uses, but they've been using electronic throttle since 2004 (the year I have) and I haven't experienced any problems.  I've always worried about the reliability of it, but I've noticed no issues.  Looks like Toyota just screwed up on their code, but it's kinda par for the course for a company to ignore software issues mainly because the average car person understands the hardware, not software behind these things.  And of course, with code like this, no one but Toyota can actually see that code to see that it's flawed -- you need to reproduce it under stress to prove the problem.  And again, because no one can see the code, they can easily claim it's anything else but a flaw in the code.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe this is different from the technology that BMW uses , but they 've been using electronic throttle since 2004 ( the year I have ) and I have n't experienced any problems .
I 've always worried about the reliability of it , but I 've noticed no issues .
Looks like Toyota just screwed up on their code , but it 's kinda par for the course for a company to ignore software issues mainly because the average car person understands the hardware , not software behind these things .
And of course , with code like this , no one but Toyota can actually see that code to see that it 's flawed -- you need to reproduce it under stress to prove the problem .
And again , because no one can see the code , they can easily claim it 's anything else but a flaw in the code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe this is different from the technology that BMW uses, but they've been using electronic throttle since 2004 (the year I have) and I haven't experienced any problems.
I've always worried about the reliability of it, but I've noticed no issues.
Looks like Toyota just screwed up on their code, but it's kinda par for the course for a company to ignore software issues mainly because the average car person understands the hardware, not software behind these things.
And of course, with code like this, no one but Toyota can actually see that code to see that it's flawed -- you need to reproduce it under stress to prove the problem.
And again, because no one can see the code, they can easily claim it's anything else but a flaw in the code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996072</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm, the dude is question is a world class tinkerer and computer INVENTOR.  Yeah, he might know how to diagnose electronic control logic problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , the dude is question is a world class tinkerer and computer INVENTOR .
Yeah , he might know how to diagnose electronic control logic problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, the dude is question is a world class tinkerer and computer INVENTOR.
Yeah, he might know how to diagnose electronic control logic problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995900</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>s122604</author>
	<datestamp>1265128560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>[quote]Any car will 'accelerate wildly' under cruise control, given the right conditions, i.e. you are going up a hill and it can't maintain speed in the current gear. [/quote]
The condition you describe, in a car with an automatic transmission, will cause the auto to down-shift, not "accelerate wildly"....


I am glad for this thread though, there was a discussion on fark about the vapid Toyota fanboy-appologist crowd, and how they just might be "the Apple of cars".. It looks think that circle is now closed..</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ quote ] Any car will 'accelerate wildly ' under cruise control , given the right conditions , i.e .
you are going up a hill and it ca n't maintain speed in the current gear .
[ /quote ] The condition you describe , in a car with an automatic transmission , will cause the auto to down-shift , not " accelerate wildly " ... . I am glad for this thread though , there was a discussion on fark about the vapid Toyota fanboy-appologist crowd , and how they just might be " the Apple of cars " .. It looks think that circle is now closed. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[quote]Any car will 'accelerate wildly' under cruise control, given the right conditions, i.e.
you are going up a hill and it can't maintain speed in the current gear.
[/quote]
The condition you describe, in a car with an automatic transmission, will cause the auto to down-shift, not "accelerate wildly"....


I am glad for this thread though, there was a discussion on fark about the vapid Toyota fanboy-appologist crowd, and how they just might be "the Apple of cars".. It looks think that circle is now closed..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999460</id>
	<title>re: competent people don't call in</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1265140860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that a lot of really competent folks no longer even bother to call in to "customer service" lines.  But that's not so much because they inherently believe it best to skip that step.  It's conditioned behavior, based on years and years of trying it and having miserable results!</p><p>I have a feeling that if a tech. company would experiment with the idea of having 2 different phone numbers -- one advertised as the "standard" one for customers to use, and the second listed as specifically for "advanced users" -- it might work out really well for them.  Let people calling the "advanced" hotline reach 2nd. (or even 3rd.) level technical staff, while the other (perhaps more prominently published/displayed) number takes them to 1st. level, first.</p><p>Sure, this would result in some relative idiots calling the advanced line, thinking it's going to give them a quicker or better answer to their problems<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... BUT, that hassle would be more than offset by 1st. level techs. not wasting half their day running people through pointless basic troubleshooting steps, only to determine their issue is more complicated than something covered on the card they read off of.  Not only that, but it would help resolve the original problem of "good, knowledgeable users not bothering to call in to report issues they discover".  They'd start doing it, if they knew they were quickly able to convey the info to people who would really DO something with it.</p><p>Also, in this scenario - there's no reason a higher-level tech shouldn't/couldn't be allowed to "de-escalate" a call to 1st. level if it becomes clear it's a user who just needs simple help - and he/she is abusing the ability to call into the "advanced hotline"!  With 1st. level freed up from doing pointless basic troubleshooting for all the people with more advanced questions, the hold times to speak with them should drop too - making this less of a problem to transfer folks back to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that a lot of really competent folks no longer even bother to call in to " customer service " lines .
But that 's not so much because they inherently believe it best to skip that step .
It 's conditioned behavior , based on years and years of trying it and having miserable results ! I have a feeling that if a tech .
company would experiment with the idea of having 2 different phone numbers -- one advertised as the " standard " one for customers to use , and the second listed as specifically for " advanced users " -- it might work out really well for them .
Let people calling the " advanced " hotline reach 2nd .
( or even 3rd .
) level technical staff , while the other ( perhaps more prominently published/displayed ) number takes them to 1st .
level , first.Sure , this would result in some relative idiots calling the advanced line , thinking it 's going to give them a quicker or better answer to their problems ... BUT , that hassle would be more than offset by 1st .
level techs .
not wasting half their day running people through pointless basic troubleshooting steps , only to determine their issue is more complicated than something covered on the card they read off of .
Not only that , but it would help resolve the original problem of " good , knowledgeable users not bothering to call in to report issues they discover " .
They 'd start doing it , if they knew they were quickly able to convey the info to people who would really DO something with it.Also , in this scenario - there 's no reason a higher-level tech should n't/could n't be allowed to " de-escalate " a call to 1st .
level if it becomes clear it 's a user who just needs simple help - and he/she is abusing the ability to call into the " advanced hotline " !
With 1st .
level freed up from doing pointless basic troubleshooting for all the people with more advanced questions , the hold times to speak with them should drop too - making this less of a problem to transfer folks back to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that a lot of really competent folks no longer even bother to call in to "customer service" lines.
But that's not so much because they inherently believe it best to skip that step.
It's conditioned behavior, based on years and years of trying it and having miserable results!I have a feeling that if a tech.
company would experiment with the idea of having 2 different phone numbers -- one advertised as the "standard" one for customers to use, and the second listed as specifically for "advanced users" -- it might work out really well for them.
Let people calling the "advanced" hotline reach 2nd.
(or even 3rd.
) level technical staff, while the other (perhaps more prominently published/displayed) number takes them to 1st.
level, first.Sure, this would result in some relative idiots calling the advanced line, thinking it's going to give them a quicker or better answer to their problems ... BUT, that hassle would be more than offset by 1st.
level techs.
not wasting half their day running people through pointless basic troubleshooting steps, only to determine their issue is more complicated than something covered on the card they read off of.
Not only that, but it would help resolve the original problem of "good, knowledgeable users not bothering to call in to report issues they discover".
They'd start doing it, if they knew they were quickly able to convey the info to people who would really DO something with it.Also, in this scenario - there's no reason a higher-level tech shouldn't/couldn't be allowed to "de-escalate" a call to 1st.
level if it becomes clear it's a user who just needs simple help - and he/she is abusing the ability to call into the "advanced hotline"!
With 1st.
level freed up from doing pointless basic troubleshooting for all the people with more advanced questions, the hold times to speak with them should drop too - making this less of a problem to transfer folks back to them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998610</id>
	<title>Easily remedied</title>
	<author>klui</author>
	<datestamp>1265137500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Steve Wozniak can quickly resolve this issue by going public and asking people to stop buying Toyotas until this is fixed properly. Bad PR will cause companies to change their comfortable MO quickly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Steve Wozniak can quickly resolve this issue by going public and asking people to stop buying Toyotas until this is fixed properly .
Bad PR will cause companies to change their comfortable MO quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steve Wozniak can quickly resolve this issue by going public and asking people to stop buying Toyotas until this is fixed properly.
Bad PR will cause companies to change their comfortable MO quickly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998296</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265136420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My old 98 chevrolet does the same thing redlining a few times until I got a clue and stopped engaging cruise control going up a steep hill with a car full of passengers.</p><p>Its right up there with the priceless accounts of a clueless lady who wanted her car company to pay her speeding ticket as she was cought speeding while cruise control was engaged.  Apparently her car failed to automatically apply breaks for her when going down a steep incline.</p><p>In other news I once had a "mechanic" drive my car and tell me I should always drive in third gear to prevent damage to the transmission because (after trying three times unsucessfully) he was able to intentionally fool the fuzzy logic controlling automatic gear shifting and make it do something stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My old 98 chevrolet does the same thing redlining a few times until I got a clue and stopped engaging cruise control going up a steep hill with a car full of passengers.Its right up there with the priceless accounts of a clueless lady who wanted her car company to pay her speeding ticket as she was cought speeding while cruise control was engaged .
Apparently her car failed to automatically apply breaks for her when going down a steep incline.In other news I once had a " mechanic " drive my car and tell me I should always drive in third gear to prevent damage to the transmission because ( after trying three times unsucessfully ) he was able to intentionally fool the fuzzy logic controlling automatic gear shifting and make it do something stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My old 98 chevrolet does the same thing redlining a few times until I got a clue and stopped engaging cruise control going up a steep hill with a car full of passengers.Its right up there with the priceless accounts of a clueless lady who wanted her car company to pay her speeding ticket as she was cought speeding while cruise control was engaged.
Apparently her car failed to automatically apply breaks for her when going down a steep incline.In other news I once had a "mechanic" drive my car and tell me I should always drive in third gear to prevent damage to the transmission because (after trying three times unsucessfully) he was able to intentionally fool the fuzzy logic controlling automatic gear shifting and make it do something stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998174</id>
	<title>...except computers that don't work right???</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265135940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Man, and this is from Steve Wozniak, who made and sold, for instance, MacOS 7, which kept crashing and freezing and spitting "an error has occurred" at a pace not even matched by BSODs? And all that because of a "design" (for lack of a better word) that was obsolete 20 years before (no memory protection, no preemptive multitasking, etc.)?<br>Steve, how about apologizing to the world for your shoddy designs before blaming others?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Man , and this is from Steve Wozniak , who made and sold , for instance , MacOS 7 , which kept crashing and freezing and spitting " an error has occurred " at a pace not even matched by BSODs ?
And all that because of a " design " ( for lack of a better word ) that was obsolete 20 years before ( no memory protection , no preemptive multitasking , etc .
) ? Steve , how about apologizing to the world for your shoddy designs before blaming others ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Man, and this is from Steve Wozniak, who made and sold, for instance, MacOS 7, which kept crashing and freezing and spitting "an error has occurred" at a pace not even matched by BSODs?
And all that because of a "design" (for lack of a better word) that was obsolete 20 years before (no memory protection, no preemptive multitasking, etc.
)?Steve, how about apologizing to the world for your shoddy designs before blaming others?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996680</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never seen a car that will lock its steering wheel when you turn it off while it is still in gear.  The steering wheel only locks when you have the key all the way over, which you can only do when the transmission is in park (or neutral?).  All you lose is power steering and power brakes and you have to rely on armstrong steering.  Not really that huge of a deal when the vehicle is moving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never seen a car that will lock its steering wheel when you turn it off while it is still in gear .
The steering wheel only locks when you have the key all the way over , which you can only do when the transmission is in park ( or neutral ? ) .
All you lose is power steering and power brakes and you have to rely on armstrong steering .
Not really that huge of a deal when the vehicle is moving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never seen a car that will lock its steering wheel when you turn it off while it is still in gear.
The steering wheel only locks when you have the key all the way over, which you can only do when the transmission is in park (or neutral?).
All you lose is power steering and power brakes and you have to rely on armstrong steering.
Not really that huge of a deal when the vehicle is moving.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002568</id>
	<title>Go Woz Go!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265112840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, if anyone can get Toyota to look at some broken computers, it's you, man.

Note: you cannot throw a car's acceleration computer out a window.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , if anyone can get Toyota to look at some broken computers , it 's you , man .
Note : you can not throw a car 's acceleration computer out a window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, if anyone can get Toyota to look at some broken computers, it's you, man.
Note: you cannot throw a car's acceleration computer out a window.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998382</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Guysmiley777</author>
	<datestamp>1265136720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had that happen with a late '80s Buick when the mass airflow sensor went wonky. You'd basically get either zero power or 100\% throttle. Made getting it to the shop... interesting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had that happen with a late '80s Buick when the mass airflow sensor went wonky .
You 'd basically get either zero power or 100 \ % throttle .
Made getting it to the shop... interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had that happen with a late '80s Buick when the mass airflow sensor went wonky.
You'd basically get either zero power or 100\% throttle.
Made getting it to the shop... interesting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997268</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1265133060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1531634&amp;cid=30974502" title="slashdot.org">http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1531634&amp;cid=30974502</a> [slashdot.org] </p><blockquote><div><p>This article (happened in Australia - linked related articles contain more information):</p><p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/16/2773868.htm" title="abc.net.au">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/16/2773868.htm</a> [abc.net.au] [abc.net.au]</p><p>describes a problem with a Ford Territory getting stuck with the cruise control actively trying to keep the vehicle at 100km/hr.</p><p>A couple of things to answer the 'this guy was idiot, I'm so clever it wouldn't have happened to me' crowd:</p><p>1. He couldn't turn off the ignition as the car won't let you do that if the car is moving.</p><p>2. He couldn't shift to neutral because the car wouldn't let him push the shift release button. (It was an automatic, so no clutch pedal.)</p><p>3. Pushing the brake wasn't helping enough to stop the car. (In the end it worked, but he had to jump on it with both feet all his adrenaline fuelled strength while pulling as hard as he could on the handbrake.)</p><p>4. The accelerator pedal only worked to speed him up, It wasn't a pedal 'sticking to the mat' issue, as the car was holding itself exactly to the speed of the cruise control.</p><p>5. The car was going too fast to just ram into a barrier or tree, etc.</p><p>6. The guy called Ford Australia (on his mobile phone), who couldn't help him and put him on hold. So then he called the police who, to their credit, cleared the road ahead and kept him calm enough to eventually get the car to stop. The total ordeal lasted 50 minutes.</p><p>7. The recording of the police call was released and played on the news and it was pretty obvious that both the guy and the police were doing everything to get the car to stop. This was not a situation where a quick two second phone call to a know-it-all Slashdotter would have solved the problem.</p><p>Anyway, I can't believe this news didn't make Slashdot when it happened a couple of months ago, as it contains considerably more information than the usual fare on this topic.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1531634&amp;cid = 30974502 [ slashdot.org ] This article ( happened in Australia - linked related articles contain more information ) : http : //www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/16/2773868.htm [ abc.net.au ] [ abc.net.au ] describes a problem with a Ford Territory getting stuck with the cruise control actively trying to keep the vehicle at 100km/hr.A couple of things to answer the 'this guy was idiot , I 'm so clever it would n't have happened to me ' crowd : 1 .
He could n't turn off the ignition as the car wo n't let you do that if the car is moving.2 .
He could n't shift to neutral because the car would n't let him push the shift release button .
( It was an automatic , so no clutch pedal. ) 3 .
Pushing the brake was n't helping enough to stop the car .
( In the end it worked , but he had to jump on it with both feet all his adrenaline fuelled strength while pulling as hard as he could on the handbrake. ) 4 .
The accelerator pedal only worked to speed him up , It was n't a pedal 'sticking to the mat ' issue , as the car was holding itself exactly to the speed of the cruise control.5 .
The car was going too fast to just ram into a barrier or tree , etc.6 .
The guy called Ford Australia ( on his mobile phone ) , who could n't help him and put him on hold .
So then he called the police who , to their credit , cleared the road ahead and kept him calm enough to eventually get the car to stop .
The total ordeal lasted 50 minutes.7 .
The recording of the police call was released and played on the news and it was pretty obvious that both the guy and the police were doing everything to get the car to stop .
This was not a situation where a quick two second phone call to a know-it-all Slashdotter would have solved the problem.Anyway , I ca n't believe this news did n't make Slashdot when it happened a couple of months ago , as it contains considerably more information than the usual fare on this topic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1531634&amp;cid=30974502 [slashdot.org] This article (happened in Australia - linked related articles contain more information):http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/16/2773868.htm [abc.net.au] [abc.net.au]describes a problem with a Ford Territory getting stuck with the cruise control actively trying to keep the vehicle at 100km/hr.A couple of things to answer the 'this guy was idiot, I'm so clever it wouldn't have happened to me' crowd:1.
He couldn't turn off the ignition as the car won't let you do that if the car is moving.2.
He couldn't shift to neutral because the car wouldn't let him push the shift release button.
(It was an automatic, so no clutch pedal.)3.
Pushing the brake wasn't helping enough to stop the car.
(In the end it worked, but he had to jump on it with both feet all his adrenaline fuelled strength while pulling as hard as he could on the handbrake.)4.
The accelerator pedal only worked to speed him up, It wasn't a pedal 'sticking to the mat' issue, as the car was holding itself exactly to the speed of the cruise control.5.
The car was going too fast to just ram into a barrier or tree, etc.6.
The guy called Ford Australia (on his mobile phone), who couldn't help him and put him on hold.
So then he called the police who, to their credit, cleared the road ahead and kept him calm enough to eventually get the car to stop.
The total ordeal lasted 50 minutes.7.
The recording of the police call was released and played on the news and it was pretty obvious that both the guy and the police were doing everything to get the car to stop.
This was not a situation where a quick two second phone call to a know-it-all Slashdotter would have solved the problem.Anyway, I can't believe this news didn't make Slashdot when it happened a couple of months ago, as it contains considerably more information than the usual fare on this topic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000386</id>
	<title>Re:OP, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265101680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You only drive standards, right?  Ever standard I've owned cuts the cruise control when the clutch is depressed to change gears -- every slushbox I've owned will run itself up and down through gears as required without messing with the cruise control.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You only drive standards , right ?
Ever standard I 've owned cuts the cruise control when the clutch is depressed to change gears -- every slushbox I 've owned will run itself up and down through gears as required without messing with the cruise control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You only drive standards, right?
Ever standard I've owned cuts the cruise control when the clutch is depressed to change gears -- every slushbox I've owned will run itself up and down through gears as required without messing with the cruise control.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31007610</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>raind</author>
	<datestamp>1264934400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's true, sometimes when  I've been stuck on a problem - I need another pair of eyes for a better perspective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's true , sometimes when I 've been stuck on a problem - I need another pair of eyes for a better perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's true, sometimes when  I've been stuck on a problem - I need another pair of eyes for a better perspective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997032</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000136</id>
	<title>Re:My 1994 Chrysler New Yorker Had Similar Problem</title>
	<author>eh2o</author>
	<datestamp>1265143860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My experience with CC going up hills is that it usually overshoots the requested speed by up to about 5mph after a downshift occurs.  Also, drivers without CC tend to slow down on uphills (as they tend to drive with constant RPM not constant velocity).  The combined effect is that going uphill with CC causes your relative speed to other drivers to change quite dramatically, say 10-15mph.  If one were to simultaneously also request a speed increase, you'd almost certainly perceive the car to be moving much too quickly for safe handling.</p><p>As we know, it is the difference in relative speed that tends to cause accidents, so I will always disable CC on inclines unless the traffic conditions are very light.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My experience with CC going up hills is that it usually overshoots the requested speed by up to about 5mph after a downshift occurs .
Also , drivers without CC tend to slow down on uphills ( as they tend to drive with constant RPM not constant velocity ) .
The combined effect is that going uphill with CC causes your relative speed to other drivers to change quite dramatically , say 10-15mph .
If one were to simultaneously also request a speed increase , you 'd almost certainly perceive the car to be moving much too quickly for safe handling.As we know , it is the difference in relative speed that tends to cause accidents , so I will always disable CC on inclines unless the traffic conditions are very light .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My experience with CC going up hills is that it usually overshoots the requested speed by up to about 5mph after a downshift occurs.
Also, drivers without CC tend to slow down on uphills (as they tend to drive with constant RPM not constant velocity).
The combined effect is that going uphill with CC causes your relative speed to other drivers to change quite dramatically, say 10-15mph.
If one were to simultaneously also request a speed increase, you'd almost certainly perceive the car to be moving much too quickly for safe handling.As we know, it is the difference in relative speed that tends to cause accidents, so I will always disable CC on inclines unless the traffic conditions are very light.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997354</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>stabiesoft</author>
	<datestamp>1265133360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nah, the difference is the IS buyer loves it when the car takes off on its own. Watch the commercials where they are all doing donuts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nah , the difference is the IS buyer loves it when the car takes off on its own .
Watch the commercials where they are all doing donuts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nah, the difference is the IS buyer loves it when the car takes off on its own.
Watch the commercials where they are all doing donuts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997680</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You americans and your automatics =p</p><p>The simple solution here is, hit the clutch. You can steer fine, and worst case you blow the engine, but probably just hit the rev limiter, and look like a dick.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You americans and your automatics = pThe simple solution here is , hit the clutch .
You can steer fine , and worst case you blow the engine , but probably just hit the rev limiter , and look like a dick .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>You americans and your automatics =pThe simple solution here is, hit the clutch.
You can steer fine, and worst case you blow the engine, but probably just hit the rev limiter, and look like a dick.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996030</id>
	<title>Re:OP, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>ragefan</author>
	<datestamp>1265128920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Here's what you do: manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed. Problem solved.</p></div><p>Every car I've ever driven turns off cruise control when gears are changed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's what you do : manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed .
Problem solved.Every car I 've ever driven turns off cruise control when gears are changed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's what you do: manually put the thing into a lower gear before it loses speed.
Problem solved.Every car I've ever driven turns off cruise control when gears are changed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996962</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course you turn off the car.  Dropping it into neutral under full rev could be very bad for your engine (and, as others mentioned might require a lot of muscle).</p><p>The only way a wheel locks is if you have turned it further than you ever would at speeds exceeding 2mph, and the wheel won't lock with the keys in anyway.  Most cars are perfectly driveable with no power steering or brakes too, just takes more oomph.  Heck, some of my early cars I never bothered to fix the power steering when it broke.  I guess if you were one of those 100lb soccer moms in an excursion or something it could be problematic.</p><p>Also, don't forget those handy emergency brakes for, you know, emergencies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course you turn off the car .
Dropping it into neutral under full rev could be very bad for your engine ( and , as others mentioned might require a lot of muscle ) .The only way a wheel locks is if you have turned it further than you ever would at speeds exceeding 2mph , and the wheel wo n't lock with the keys in anyway .
Most cars are perfectly driveable with no power steering or brakes too , just takes more oomph .
Heck , some of my early cars I never bothered to fix the power steering when it broke .
I guess if you were one of those 100lb soccer moms in an excursion or something it could be problematic.Also , do n't forget those handy emergency brakes for , you know , emergencies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course you turn off the car.
Dropping it into neutral under full rev could be very bad for your engine (and, as others mentioned might require a lot of muscle).The only way a wheel locks is if you have turned it further than you ever would at speeds exceeding 2mph, and the wheel won't lock with the keys in anyway.
Most cars are perfectly driveable with no power steering or brakes too, just takes more oomph.
Heck, some of my early cars I never bothered to fix the power steering when it broke.
I guess if you were one of those 100lb soccer moms in an excursion or something it could be problematic.Also, don't forget those handy emergency brakes for, you know, emergencies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996336</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Rival</author>
	<datestamp>1265129940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Somebody mod dtolman up, and Wrath0fb0b down.  Please.</p><p>Putting wrong information out there about how to make a split-second decision in a rare, left-threatening emergency is very irresponsible.</p><p>dtolman is correct.  To reiterate:</p><p>Put the car in NEUTRAL. The engine will disengage.<br>Hit the brake HARD. Do not pump.<br>Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somebody mod dtolman up , and Wrath0fb0b down .
Please.Putting wrong information out there about how to make a split-second decision in a rare , left-threatening emergency is very irresponsible.dtolman is correct .
To reiterate : Put the car in NEUTRAL .
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD .
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road , and once its stopped , you can PARK it and turn off the engine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somebody mod dtolman up, and Wrath0fb0b down.
Please.Putting wrong information out there about how to make a split-second decision in a rare, left-threatening emergency is very irresponsible.dtolman is correct.
To reiterate:Put the car in NEUTRAL.
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD.
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31004090</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265121720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they couldn't.</p></div></blockquote><p>May be true elsewhere, but most definitely <em>isn't</em> at Toyota: admitting mistakes (even more so: allowing others to show you your mistakes) in order to learn from them is in the corporate DNA.</p><p>It's called <a href="http://www.ineak.com/2009/05/hansei-responsibility-self-reflection-and-organizational-learning/" title="ineak.com" rel="nofollow">Hansei</a> [ineak.com], and it's an <em>obligatory</em> opportunity to improve. As they (frequently) observe: <i>No problem is a problem</i>. Because you've not done your Hansei; critically evaluated to find opportunities for improvement.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they could n't.May be true elsewhere , but most definitely is n't at Toyota : admitting mistakes ( even more so : allowing others to show you your mistakes ) in order to learn from them is in the corporate DNA.It 's called Hansei [ ineak.com ] , and it 's an obligatory opportunity to improve .
As they ( frequently ) observe : No problem is a problem .
Because you 've not done your Hansei ; critically evaluated to find opportunities for improvement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they couldn't.May be true elsewhere, but most definitely isn't at Toyota: admitting mistakes (even more so: allowing others to show you your mistakes) in order to learn from them is in the corporate DNA.It's called Hansei [ineak.com], and it's an obligatory opportunity to improve.
As they (frequently) observe: No problem is a problem.
Because you've not done your Hansei; critically evaluated to find opportunities for improvement.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999148</id>
	<title>Tinfoil hat time</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1265139600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a suspicion that every Toyota brought in for a new accelerator pedal* will also have new throttle / cruise control firmware surreptitiously installed without it being mentioned to the owners.  No way this is all due to <i>just</i> extra friction in an accelerator assembly.<br> <br>* - Anyone else pick up that everytime Toyota discusses the suspect accelerators, they just happen to mention the supplier is an American company?  More BS nationalistic face-saving to distract from who <i>designed</i> said part.<br> <br>PS: Tom Merritt from CNET has also mentioned the squirrely acceleration habits of his older Prius as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a suspicion that every Toyota brought in for a new accelerator pedal * will also have new throttle / cruise control firmware surreptitiously installed without it being mentioned to the owners .
No way this is all due to just extra friction in an accelerator assembly .
* - Anyone else pick up that everytime Toyota discusses the suspect accelerators , they just happen to mention the supplier is an American company ?
More BS nationalistic face-saving to distract from who designed said part .
PS : Tom Merritt from CNET has also mentioned the squirrely acceleration habits of his older Prius as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a suspicion that every Toyota brought in for a new accelerator pedal* will also have new throttle / cruise control firmware surreptitiously installed without it being mentioned to the owners.
No way this is all due to just extra friction in an accelerator assembly.
* - Anyone else pick up that everytime Toyota discusses the suspect accelerators, they just happen to mention the supplier is an American company?
More BS nationalistic face-saving to distract from who designed said part.
PS: Tom Merritt from CNET has also mentioned the squirrely acceleration habits of his older Prius as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995798</id>
	<title>iWoz cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, but that's his own fault, he was using the "iWoz cruising" system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but that 's his own fault , he was using the " iWoz cruising " system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but that's his own fault, he was using the "iWoz cruising" system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998536</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1265137200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>1. Take right foot off gas pedal<br>2. Slam right foot on clutch<br>3. Slam left foot on brake (can be performed simultaneously with step 2)</i></p><p>WTF?</p><p>I'm guessing in an emergency you don't want to spend the time to cross your legs completely and still provide pressure on the clutch. Unless you're a professional gymnast or something, this might not even be possible.</p><p>Maybe you should think about putting your *left* foot on the clutch, you know, the pedal you use with your left foot all the time? Then you can use your *right* foot on the brake, and it won't take 3 minutes of squirming around in your seat in an emergency.</p><p>(More seriously, you should also flick on your flashers ASAP, don't wait until you're on the shoulder if you're really having an emergency.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Take right foot off gas pedal2 .
Slam right foot on clutch3 .
Slam left foot on brake ( can be performed simultaneously with step 2 ) WTF ? I 'm guessing in an emergency you do n't want to spend the time to cross your legs completely and still provide pressure on the clutch .
Unless you 're a professional gymnast or something , this might not even be possible.Maybe you should think about putting your * left * foot on the clutch , you know , the pedal you use with your left foot all the time ?
Then you can use your * right * foot on the brake , and it wo n't take 3 minutes of squirming around in your seat in an emergency .
( More seriously , you should also flick on your flashers ASAP , do n't wait until you 're on the shoulder if you 're really having an emergency .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Take right foot off gas pedal2.
Slam right foot on clutch3.
Slam left foot on brake (can be performed simultaneously with step 2)WTF?I'm guessing in an emergency you don't want to spend the time to cross your legs completely and still provide pressure on the clutch.
Unless you're a professional gymnast or something, this might not even be possible.Maybe you should think about putting your *left* foot on the clutch, you know, the pedal you use with your left foot all the time?
Then you can use your *right* foot on the brake, and it won't take 3 minutes of squirming around in your seat in an emergency.
(More seriously, you should also flick on your flashers ASAP, don't wait until you're on the shoulder if you're really having an emergency.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000494</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1265102160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It involves increasing the car's speed using the cruise control."</p><p>Simple fix #1.  Don't use the cruise control as an accelator. That's what the pedal on the floor is for. This is not the first time that using the cruise control to accelerate a car caused something funny to happen.  I have had that happen on American cars.</p><p>In any case, this appears to be a separate issue from the "stuck" accelerator pedals.  If he is so concerned why doesn't he bring the car in for service under the warranty.</p><p>Simple fix #2.  Don't use the cruise control to speed.  I don't have a problem with speeding but realize that the car maker can't have tested everything under all conditions.  And those outside of legal speeds may have been the first to be ignored.</p><p>Finally, is this even a "problem"?  Maybe the car assumes that if you are going 83 mph plus and want to go faster that you WANT wide open throttle (that may be the only realistic acceleration option available based on the small engine)?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It involves increasing the car 's speed using the cruise control .
" Simple fix # 1 .
Do n't use the cruise control as an accelator .
That 's what the pedal on the floor is for .
This is not the first time that using the cruise control to accelerate a car caused something funny to happen .
I have had that happen on American cars.In any case , this appears to be a separate issue from the " stuck " accelerator pedals .
If he is so concerned why does n't he bring the car in for service under the warranty.Simple fix # 2 .
Do n't use the cruise control to speed .
I do n't have a problem with speeding but realize that the car maker ca n't have tested everything under all conditions .
And those outside of legal speeds may have been the first to be ignored.Finally , is this even a " problem " ?
Maybe the car assumes that if you are going 83 mph plus and want to go faster that you WANT wide open throttle ( that may be the only realistic acceleration option available based on the small engine ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It involves increasing the car's speed using the cruise control.
"Simple fix #1.
Don't use the cruise control as an accelator.
That's what the pedal on the floor is for.
This is not the first time that using the cruise control to accelerate a car caused something funny to happen.
I have had that happen on American cars.In any case, this appears to be a separate issue from the "stuck" accelerator pedals.
If he is so concerned why doesn't he bring the car in for service under the warranty.Simple fix #2.
Don't use the cruise control to speed.
I don't have a problem with speeding but realize that the car maker can't have tested everything under all conditions.
And those outside of legal speeds may have been the first to be ignored.Finally, is this even a "problem"?
Maybe the car assumes that if you are going 83 mph plus and want to go faster that you WANT wide open throttle (that may be the only realistic acceleration option available based on the small engine)?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996986</id>
	<title>if life were a screenplay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[Toyota's John Hanson is addressing the public]</p><p>John Hanson:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... And that's why we place customer satisfaction above all other values.  We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies.</p><p>[cut to him addressing boardroom]<br>John Hanson:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... You see, gentleman, we're in the business of moving cars: and that means stonewalling complaints, assessing any threat they pose to sales, and nullifying that threat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ Toyota 's John Hanson is addressing the public ] John Hanson : ... And that 's why we place customer satisfaction above all other values .
We 're in the business of investigating complaints , assessing problems and finding remedies .
[ cut to him addressing boardroom ] John Hanson : ... You see , gentleman , we 're in the business of moving cars : and that means stonewalling complaints , assessing any threat they pose to sales , and nullifying that threat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[Toyota's John Hanson is addressing the public]John Hanson: ... And that's why we place customer satisfaction above all other values.
We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies.
[cut to him addressing boardroom]John Hanson: ... You see, gentleman, we're in the business of moving cars: and that means stonewalling complaints, assessing any threat they pose to sales, and nullifying that threat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996892</id>
	<title>Put his money where is mouth is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I truly hope Woz figured it out. Best way to make the point and get people to listen?:<br>1. Have ABC come with him to any dealership<br>2. Pick out any Prius not on the recall list<br>3. Repeat the problem on camera</p><p>I bet THAT will get the attention of EVERYBODY.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I truly hope Woz figured it out .
Best way to make the point and get people to listen ? : 1 .
Have ABC come with him to any dealership2 .
Pick out any Prius not on the recall list3 .
Repeat the problem on cameraI bet THAT will get the attention of EVERYBODY .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I truly hope Woz figured it out.
Best way to make the point and get people to listen?:1.
Have ABC come with him to any dealership2.
Pick out any Prius not on the recall list3.
Repeat the problem on cameraI bet THAT will get the attention of EVERYBODY.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996006</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>FTWinston</author>
	<datestamp>1265128800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>NASA-level? I'd go for civil aviation level, for a much better safety record. But frankly, no one is going to go to the effort of having multiple redundant computer systems to control an accelerator pedal unless regulated to do so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>NASA-level ?
I 'd go for civil aviation level , for a much better safety record .
But frankly , no one is going to go to the effort of having multiple redundant computer systems to control an accelerator pedal unless regulated to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NASA-level?
I'd go for civil aviation level, for a much better safety record.
But frankly, no one is going to go to the effort of having multiple redundant computer systems to control an accelerator pedal unless regulated to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996438</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1265130300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>it's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problem</p></div></blockquote><p>That's hard for you to deduce? Really? You must not be too bright, then.</p><p>I'll help you out: when you are terrified for your life, you don't think in the same way you do when you're sitting at your desk. Your brain is in an entirely different state.</p><p>I could see you in charge of army training, though:</p><blockquote><div><p>Drills? What drills? We don't need to train our soldiers on how to react while under fire! Just throw them out on the battlefield and they'll reason it out. The answer should be obvious!</p></div></blockquote><p>You say your mind has been boggling about this for a week? Are you mentally retarded? Have you any experience with humans, or any other animals, for that matter?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problemThat 's hard for you to deduce ?
Really ? You must not be too bright , then.I 'll help you out : when you are terrified for your life , you do n't think in the same way you do when you 're sitting at your desk .
Your brain is in an entirely different state.I could see you in charge of army training , though : Drills ?
What drills ?
We do n't need to train our soldiers on how to react while under fire !
Just throw them out on the battlefield and they 'll reason it out .
The answer should be obvious ! You say your mind has been boggling about this for a week ?
Are you mentally retarded ?
Have you any experience with humans , or any other animals , for that matter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problemThat's hard for you to deduce?
Really? You must not be too bright, then.I'll help you out: when you are terrified for your life, you don't think in the same way you do when you're sitting at your desk.
Your brain is in an entirely different state.I could see you in charge of army training, though:Drills?
What drills?
We don't need to train our soldiers on how to react while under fire!
Just throw them out on the battlefield and they'll reason it out.
The answer should be obvious!You say your mind has been boggling about this for a week?
Are you mentally retarded?
Have you any experience with humans, or any other animals, for that matter?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001870</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>mrchaotica</author>
	<datestamp>1265108820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not explaining it precisely enough.</p><p>First of all, there are two separate cases: curves and slopes. Curves, whether horizontal or vertical, do indeed require you to accelerate by definition because you are changing direction. Slopes, on the other hand, are straight both horizontally and vertically (their rate of elevation change is <em>constant</em>), so no acceleration is required to maintain speed.</p><p>Secondly, you're confusing acceleration with power. In order to maintain speed around the curve, you must increase <em>power</em> because some of the energy that had been used maintaining your speed when you were going straight is now expended as cornering friction. In order to maintain speed on a (positive) slope, you must increase power to compensate for the gain in potential energy.</p><p>In other words, despite it being often called the "accelerator pedal," mashing on the throttle to maintain speed up a hill isn't really "acceleration," except at the vertical curves at the bottom and top.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not explaining it precisely enough.First of all , there are two separate cases : curves and slopes .
Curves , whether horizontal or vertical , do indeed require you to accelerate by definition because you are changing direction .
Slopes , on the other hand , are straight both horizontally and vertically ( their rate of elevation change is constant ) , so no acceleration is required to maintain speed.Secondly , you 're confusing acceleration with power .
In order to maintain speed around the curve , you must increase power because some of the energy that had been used maintaining your speed when you were going straight is now expended as cornering friction .
In order to maintain speed on a ( positive ) slope , you must increase power to compensate for the gain in potential energy.In other words , despite it being often called the " accelerator pedal , " mashing on the throttle to maintain speed up a hill is n't really " acceleration , " except at the vertical curves at the bottom and top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not explaining it precisely enough.First of all, there are two separate cases: curves and slopes.
Curves, whether horizontal or vertical, do indeed require you to accelerate by definition because you are changing direction.
Slopes, on the other hand, are straight both horizontally and vertically (their rate of elevation change is constant), so no acceleration is required to maintain speed.Secondly, you're confusing acceleration with power.
In order to maintain speed around the curve, you must increase power because some of the energy that had been used maintaining your speed when you were going straight is now expended as cornering friction.
In order to maintain speed on a (positive) slope, you must increase power to compensate for the gain in potential energy.In other words, despite it being often called the "accelerator pedal," mashing on the throttle to maintain speed up a hill isn't really "acceleration," except at the vertical curves at the bottom and top.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997702</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>cvtan</author>
	<datestamp>1265131920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Excuse me, but Woz does not "understand the problem", he simply experienced it.  He says he can duplicate the problem at will, but doesn't say how.  Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine.  Boring, but fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Excuse me , but Woz does not " understand the problem " , he simply experienced it .
He says he can duplicate the problem at will , but does n't say how .
Anyway , my wife 's 2007 Prius runs fine .
Boring , but fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excuse me, but Woz does not "understand the problem", he simply experienced it.
He says he can duplicate the problem at will, but doesn't say how.
Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine.
Boring, but fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996088</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>NixieBunny</author>
	<datestamp>1265129100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A car with a cruise control will only accelerate (i.e., increase its speed, which is *not* the same as increasing engine RPMs) if it's currently moving slower than the setpoint. When it reaches the setpoint, it stops accelerating. That's the whole point of cruise control. If it accelerates from the setpoint, then it's broken by definition.
</p><p>I would hope that a fellow with the technical competence of The Woz would know the difference between a properly behaving cruise control and one that's broken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A car with a cruise control will only accelerate ( i.e. , increase its speed , which is * not * the same as increasing engine RPMs ) if it 's currently moving slower than the setpoint .
When it reaches the setpoint , it stops accelerating .
That 's the whole point of cruise control .
If it accelerates from the setpoint , then it 's broken by definition .
I would hope that a fellow with the technical competence of The Woz would know the difference between a properly behaving cruise control and one that 's broken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car with a cruise control will only accelerate (i.e., increase its speed, which is *not* the same as increasing engine RPMs) if it's currently moving slower than the setpoint.
When it reaches the setpoint, it stops accelerating.
That's the whole point of cruise control.
If it accelerates from the setpoint, then it's broken by definition.
I would hope that a fellow with the technical competence of The Woz would know the difference between a properly behaving cruise control and one that's broken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997552</id>
	<title>Re:Safely. noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1265133960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the few early Apple people that came off as an actual talented engineer, not just some arrogant hippie wanting to make an assload of money. He's still about the only Machead that doesn't make me want to puke.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the few early Apple people that came off as an actual talented engineer , not just some arrogant hippie wanting to make an assload of money .
He 's still about the only Machead that does n't make me want to puke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the few early Apple people that came off as an actual talented engineer, not just some arrogant hippie wanting to make an assload of money.
He's still about the only Machead that doesn't make me want to puke.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996910</id>
	<title>Re:Safely. noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>smooth wombat</author>
	<datestamp>1265131920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><em>significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so.</em>

<br> <br>

You're being too generous.  Fuel mileage starts to drop off around 60 mph for most vehicles.  See <a href="http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.shtml" title="fueleconomy.gov">this link</a> [fueleconomy.gov] and the accompanying chart as well as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fuel\_economy\_vs\_speed\_1997.png" title="wikipedia.org">this link from Wikipedia</a> [wikipedia.org] which shows a fuel mileage chart from various cars over the years.  Note how all of them have reduced fuel mileage at 60 mph.  For a more simplified version of the graph, see <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/uploads/12/mpg\_vs\_speed.jpg" title="theoildrum.com">this link</a> [theoildrum.com].

<br> <br>

Even using the word 'significant' is a misnomer as you can lose 5 mpg going from 55 to 65 or nearly 10 mpg going from 60 to 70, depending on your vehicle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so .
You 're being too generous .
Fuel mileage starts to drop off around 60 mph for most vehicles .
See this link [ fueleconomy.gov ] and the accompanying chart as well as this link from Wikipedia [ wikipedia.org ] which shows a fuel mileage chart from various cars over the years .
Note how all of them have reduced fuel mileage at 60 mph .
For a more simplified version of the graph , see this link [ theoildrum.com ] .
Even using the word 'significant ' is a misnomer as you can lose 5 mpg going from 55 to 65 or nearly 10 mpg going from 60 to 70 , depending on your vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so.
You're being too generous.
Fuel mileage starts to drop off around 60 mph for most vehicles.
See this link [fueleconomy.gov] and the accompanying chart as well as this link from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] which shows a fuel mileage chart from various cars over the years.
Note how all of them have reduced fuel mileage at 60 mph.
For a more simplified version of the graph, see this link [theoildrum.com].
Even using the word 'significant' is a misnomer as you can lose 5 mpg going from 55 to 65 or nearly 10 mpg going from 60 to 70, depending on your vehicle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</id>
	<title>Safely.   noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>leuk\_he</author>
	<datestamp>1265128560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>woz said he could reproduce safely<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. I bet it is the same isssue as : <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">This poster op </a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>"I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83. Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit. Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more. By then my Prius is doing 97. It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control. I tested this over and over the night I observed it."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>woz said he could reproduce safely .. I bet it is the same isssue as : This poster op [ slashdot.org ] " I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up , say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again , up to 83 .
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off , no speed limit .
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I 've done it about 10 times or more .
By then my Prius is doing 97 .
It 's scary because it 's so wrong and so out of your normal control .
I tested this over and over the night I observed it .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>woz said he could reproduce safely .. I bet it is the same isssue as : This poster op  [slashdot.org]"I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83.
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit.
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more.
By then my Prius is doing 97.
It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control.
I tested this over and over the night I observed it.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997152</id>
	<title>Re:I don't believe it</title>
	<author>lm317t</author>
	<datestamp>1265132760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him.  The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret, and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch, as I was about to take a sip.

I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil.  Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker.</p></div><p>Fuck my Karma, its funny b/c its true. Stereotypes save time.   You know you have seen someone like this at a stoplight downtown, blaring NPR on their way to a Yoga class</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him .
The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret , and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch , as I was about to take a sip .
I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil .
Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker.Fuck my Karma , its funny b/c its true .
Stereotypes save time .
You know you have seen someone like this at a stoplight downtown , blaring NPR on their way to a Yoga class</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him.
The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret, and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch, as I was about to take a sip.
I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil.
Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker.Fuck my Karma, its funny b/c its true.
Stereotypes save time.
You know you have seen someone like this at a stoplight downtown, blaring NPR on their way to a Yoga class
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002988</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265115060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, at least some of those "brakes burned through" problems are because people don't know how to handle the problem.  They'll ride the brakes to keep the speed low, but not stop completely.  Which will cause the brakes to overheat and warp.  The brakes are perfectly capable of stopping the car with the engine running full throttle.  The point is you need to actually completely stop and not let off them.<br>The big story with the cop in the Lexus that got this started was apparently one of these (not the cop, the previous renter; why there's be so little upset at the rental agency is beyond me).</p><p>There's a reason mountain roads have those run away truck ramps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , at least some of those " brakes burned through " problems are because people do n't know how to handle the problem .
They 'll ride the brakes to keep the speed low , but not stop completely .
Which will cause the brakes to overheat and warp .
The brakes are perfectly capable of stopping the car with the engine running full throttle .
The point is you need to actually completely stop and not let off them.The big story with the cop in the Lexus that got this started was apparently one of these ( not the cop , the previous renter ; why there 's be so little upset at the rental agency is beyond me ) .There 's a reason mountain roads have those run away truck ramps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, at least some of those "brakes burned through" problems are because people don't know how to handle the problem.
They'll ride the brakes to keep the speed low, but not stop completely.
Which will cause the brakes to overheat and warp.
The brakes are perfectly capable of stopping the car with the engine running full throttle.
The point is you need to actually completely stop and not let off them.The big story with the cop in the Lexus that got this started was apparently one of these (not the cop, the previous renter; why there's be so little upset at the rental agency is beyond me).There's a reason mountain roads have those run away truck ramps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998956</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>MaWeiTao</author>
	<datestamp>1265138880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks, finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars.</p></div></blockquote><p>If you think they have a tendency to side with the GOP you clearly haven't been ont he site long enough. And I can't recall them over getting into political discourse beyond criticizing Cash-for-Clunkers. In general, however, Gawker Media, which is the company Jalopnik is owned by has a  libertarian bent trending towards liberal. About the only reason I could see for you to hold the opinion you do is that they love cars. Perhaps you'd prefer that they were constantly bashing car for all the evils they've supposedly brought upon this world.</p><p>I haven't heard anything about brake pads being totally burned through. And brake pads don't just burn through. They overheat and when they overheat they stop braking properly, but when they get down to temperature they start braking again. In the latest issue of Car &amp; Driver they do braking tests on three cars running at wide-open throttle. That includes a V6 Camry, an Infiniti G37 and a Roush Mustang. They were able to bring all three cars to a stop from 70mph and 100mph. Brakes will overpower virtually any engine.</p><p>However, you have to brake with conviction. The reason why brakes might overheat is that drivers don't immediately realize the severity of their predicament. So they stab at the brakes but then release them expecting the car will stop accelerating. It doesn't but by the time they start trying to actually stop the car the brakes are already getting hot. So at that point they start overheating and lose their ability to stop the car.</p><p>But of course, there are other options for stopping a car. The first is putting it in neutral. The second is shutting the car off. Although the second option can be problematic if you lose assisted steering and braking. If those assists are electronic then you can keep the electronics running and still easily guide the car.</p><p>The problem here is that this has been a known issue for several years now and Toyota has dismissed it, probably attributing it to user error. Toyota has already been facing problems of rusting frames on a huge number of their pickups. A lot of companies do this sort of thing, but Japanese companies have a particular tendency to not acknowledge issues. They'll address them in future updates but continue denying there's an issue with existing products.</p><p>I have to say, this is one area where the US excels: consumer protection. Problems with vehicles almost always go public and recalls are issues sooner in the US than in the rest of the world. Only in the past couple of weeks has it been acknowledge that this problem extends to Toyotas overseas when this problem has been brewing in the US for much longer. I've noticed the same pattern with recalls from other automakers, including VW/Audi's problematic dual clutch transmissions. The US is the first market to have gotten the extended 10-year warranty. In the UK, however, it almost seems like they're still denying a problem even exists.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks , finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars.If you think they have a tendency to side with the GOP you clearly have n't been ont he site long enough .
And I ca n't recall them over getting into political discourse beyond criticizing Cash-for-Clunkers .
In general , however , Gawker Media , which is the company Jalopnik is owned by has a libertarian bent trending towards liberal .
About the only reason I could see for you to hold the opinion you do is that they love cars .
Perhaps you 'd prefer that they were constantly bashing car for all the evils they 've supposedly brought upon this world.I have n't heard anything about brake pads being totally burned through .
And brake pads do n't just burn through .
They overheat and when they overheat they stop braking properly , but when they get down to temperature they start braking again .
In the latest issue of Car &amp; Driver they do braking tests on three cars running at wide-open throttle .
That includes a V6 Camry , an Infiniti G37 and a Roush Mustang .
They were able to bring all three cars to a stop from 70mph and 100mph .
Brakes will overpower virtually any engine.However , you have to brake with conviction .
The reason why brakes might overheat is that drivers do n't immediately realize the severity of their predicament .
So they stab at the brakes but then release them expecting the car will stop accelerating .
It does n't but by the time they start trying to actually stop the car the brakes are already getting hot .
So at that point they start overheating and lose their ability to stop the car.But of course , there are other options for stopping a car .
The first is putting it in neutral .
The second is shutting the car off .
Although the second option can be problematic if you lose assisted steering and braking .
If those assists are electronic then you can keep the electronics running and still easily guide the car.The problem here is that this has been a known issue for several years now and Toyota has dismissed it , probably attributing it to user error .
Toyota has already been facing problems of rusting frames on a huge number of their pickups .
A lot of companies do this sort of thing , but Japanese companies have a particular tendency to not acknowledge issues .
They 'll address them in future updates but continue denying there 's an issue with existing products.I have to say , this is one area where the US excels : consumer protection .
Problems with vehicles almost always go public and recalls are issues sooner in the US than in the rest of the world .
Only in the past couple of weeks has it been acknowledge that this problem extends to Toyotas overseas when this problem has been brewing in the US for much longer .
I 've noticed the same pattern with recalls from other automakers , including VW/Audi 's problematic dual clutch transmissions .
The US is the first market to have gotten the extended 10-year warranty .
In the UK , however , it almost seems like they 're still denying a problem even exists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks, finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars.If you think they have a tendency to side with the GOP you clearly haven't been ont he site long enough.
And I can't recall them over getting into political discourse beyond criticizing Cash-for-Clunkers.
In general, however, Gawker Media, which is the company Jalopnik is owned by has a  libertarian bent trending towards liberal.
About the only reason I could see for you to hold the opinion you do is that they love cars.
Perhaps you'd prefer that they were constantly bashing car for all the evils they've supposedly brought upon this world.I haven't heard anything about brake pads being totally burned through.
And brake pads don't just burn through.
They overheat and when they overheat they stop braking properly, but when they get down to temperature they start braking again.
In the latest issue of Car &amp; Driver they do braking tests on three cars running at wide-open throttle.
That includes a V6 Camry, an Infiniti G37 and a Roush Mustang.
They were able to bring all three cars to a stop from 70mph and 100mph.
Brakes will overpower virtually any engine.However, you have to brake with conviction.
The reason why brakes might overheat is that drivers don't immediately realize the severity of their predicament.
So they stab at the brakes but then release them expecting the car will stop accelerating.
It doesn't but by the time they start trying to actually stop the car the brakes are already getting hot.
So at that point they start overheating and lose their ability to stop the car.But of course, there are other options for stopping a car.
The first is putting it in neutral.
The second is shutting the car off.
Although the second option can be problematic if you lose assisted steering and braking.
If those assists are electronic then you can keep the electronics running and still easily guide the car.The problem here is that this has been a known issue for several years now and Toyota has dismissed it, probably attributing it to user error.
Toyota has already been facing problems of rusting frames on a huge number of their pickups.
A lot of companies do this sort of thing, but Japanese companies have a particular tendency to not acknowledge issues.
They'll address them in future updates but continue denying there's an issue with existing products.I have to say, this is one area where the US excels: consumer protection.
Problems with vehicles almost always go public and recalls are issues sooner in the US than in the rest of the world.
Only in the past couple of weeks has it been acknowledge that this problem extends to Toyotas overseas when this problem has been brewing in the US for much longer.
I've noticed the same pattern with recalls from other automakers, including VW/Audi's problematic dual clutch transmissions.
The US is the first market to have gotten the extended 10-year warranty.
In the UK, however, it almost seems like they're still denying a problem even exists.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997994</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>31415926535897</author>
	<datestamp>1265135340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have heard the Toyota software will not allow you to shift into neutral if the throttle is too high.  I have not been willing to test it on my Toyota, as I like my functional engine.  Can anyone verify or debunk this information?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have heard the Toyota software will not allow you to shift into neutral if the throttle is too high .
I have not been willing to test it on my Toyota , as I like my functional engine .
Can anyone verify or debunk this information ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have heard the Toyota software will not allow you to shift into neutral if the throttle is too high.
I have not been willing to test it on my Toyota, as I like my functional engine.
Can anyone verify or debunk this information?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997820</id>
	<title>I have been wondering this from the beginning....</title>
	<author>tacokill</author>
	<datestamp>1265134800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>A wiki link to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac" title="wikipedia.org">Therac-25</a> [wikipedia.org] seems appropriate.
<br>
<br>
For those that don't know, the Therac-25 is one of the all-time worst human-machine interfaces ever built.   I can't help but wonder, based on Woz's comments, if we have a similar situation with Toyota.
<br>
<br>
Issues like these can be difficult to track down so it would not surprise me at all if that is what we are dealing with here.  Multi-years of pseudo-random symptoms and no obvious "solutions" have worked thus far.  Not to trivialize it but -- it's a gas pedal.   In other words, it should be a simple mechanism for putting fuel into the engine.   Of course, we all know modern cars are not so simple.   That is precisely why I ask if we have a human-machine interface issue here.    ie:  you are pushing a lever for the gas but that lever is a "software" lever so who knows what is actually going on in the car's computer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A wiki link to Therac-25 [ wikipedia.org ] seems appropriate .
For those that do n't know , the Therac-25 is one of the all-time worst human-machine interfaces ever built .
I ca n't help but wonder , based on Woz 's comments , if we have a similar situation with Toyota .
Issues like these can be difficult to track down so it would not surprise me at all if that is what we are dealing with here .
Multi-years of pseudo-random symptoms and no obvious " solutions " have worked thus far .
Not to trivialize it but -- it 's a gas pedal .
In other words , it should be a simple mechanism for putting fuel into the engine .
Of course , we all know modern cars are not so simple .
That is precisely why I ask if we have a human-machine interface issue here .
ie : you are pushing a lever for the gas but that lever is a " software " lever so who knows what is actually going on in the car 's computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A wiki link to Therac-25 [wikipedia.org] seems appropriate.
For those that don't know, the Therac-25 is one of the all-time worst human-machine interfaces ever built.
I can't help but wonder, based on Woz's comments, if we have a similar situation with Toyota.
Issues like these can be difficult to track down so it would not surprise me at all if that is what we are dealing with here.
Multi-years of pseudo-random symptoms and no obvious "solutions" have worked thus far.
Not to trivialize it but -- it's a gas pedal.
In other words, it should be a simple mechanism for putting fuel into the engine.
Of course, we all know modern cars are not so simple.
That is precisely why I ask if we have a human-machine interface issue here.
ie:  you are pushing a lever for the gas but that lever is a "software" lever so who knows what is actually going on in the car's computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995892</id>
	<title>Toyota Accelerator "Not an Electronics Problem"</title>
	<author>ekimminau</author>
	<datestamp>1265128500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A Toyota PR executive has gone on record, on camera, saying this isn't an Electronics issue. Woz stating uncategorically that not only is it tied to Cruise COntrol (an electronic component) but that it is reproduceable at will on the newest version that isn't covered by the planned recalls, underscores that it most certainly IS an electrical issue.

Personally, if I owned ANY model of the vehicles currently targeted for recall, I would drive to my nearest dealer, demand in writing that they tell me I will NEVER have the accelerator issue and offer them the chance to take my vehicle and let me drive a vehicle that they will tell me will never have the issue until mine has been repaired. I would record the conversation and tell them in no uncertain terms that should my life be endangered by their product, I will expect the resultant lawsuit to make me a majority owner in whatever remains of their company.

An electronics related issue for Toyota is VERY bad since the majority of their vehicles share common electronics components, one of their trademarked solutions for efficient production and manufacturning cost savings.

Now for the troll: For all you poor schmucks with your regal attitude for buying non-American vehicles because Toyota has "so much higher quality" I would like to thank you in advance for thinning your end of the gene pool. Especially all you Apple Fan Boyz who bought a Prius to be "just like Woz".</htmltext>
<tokenext>A Toyota PR executive has gone on record , on camera , saying this is n't an Electronics issue .
Woz stating uncategorically that not only is it tied to Cruise COntrol ( an electronic component ) but that it is reproduceable at will on the newest version that is n't covered by the planned recalls , underscores that it most certainly IS an electrical issue .
Personally , if I owned ANY model of the vehicles currently targeted for recall , I would drive to my nearest dealer , demand in writing that they tell me I will NEVER have the accelerator issue and offer them the chance to take my vehicle and let me drive a vehicle that they will tell me will never have the issue until mine has been repaired .
I would record the conversation and tell them in no uncertain terms that should my life be endangered by their product , I will expect the resultant lawsuit to make me a majority owner in whatever remains of their company .
An electronics related issue for Toyota is VERY bad since the majority of their vehicles share common electronics components , one of their trademarked solutions for efficient production and manufacturning cost savings .
Now for the troll : For all you poor schmucks with your regal attitude for buying non-American vehicles because Toyota has " so much higher quality " I would like to thank you in advance for thinning your end of the gene pool .
Especially all you Apple Fan Boyz who bought a Prius to be " just like Woz " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Toyota PR executive has gone on record, on camera, saying this isn't an Electronics issue.
Woz stating uncategorically that not only is it tied to Cruise COntrol (an electronic component) but that it is reproduceable at will on the newest version that isn't covered by the planned recalls, underscores that it most certainly IS an electrical issue.
Personally, if I owned ANY model of the vehicles currently targeted for recall, I would drive to my nearest dealer, demand in writing that they tell me I will NEVER have the accelerator issue and offer them the chance to take my vehicle and let me drive a vehicle that they will tell me will never have the issue until mine has been repaired.
I would record the conversation and tell them in no uncertain terms that should my life be endangered by their product, I will expect the resultant lawsuit to make me a majority owner in whatever remains of their company.
An electronics related issue for Toyota is VERY bad since the majority of their vehicles share common electronics components, one of their trademarked solutions for efficient production and manufacturning cost savings.
Now for the troll: For all you poor schmucks with your regal attitude for buying non-American vehicles because Toyota has "so much higher quality" I would like to thank you in advance for thinning your end of the gene pool.
Especially all you Apple Fan Boyz who bought a Prius to be "just like Woz".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998728</id>
	<title>Re:My 1994 Chrysler New Yorker Had Similar Problem</title>
	<author>PeanutButterBreath</author>
	<datestamp>1265138040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it wasn't as acute as was Steve describes.  If I was going up any small  hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once, twice, three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost +10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended, making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.</p></div><p>Sounds more like unrealistic expectations than a fault in the car.  Any time where there are sudden changes in the grade, CC may have trouble figuring out how to respond.</p><p>If you hit the button and it doesn't work the way you want, you should immediately resume full control of the car.  Repeatedly creating a situation of extreme acceleration and remedying it with the "coast" button is madness.</p><p>It sounds like Woz has debugged the same problem -- cruise control is not magic.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it was n't as acute as was Steve describes .
If I was going up any small hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once , twice , three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost + 10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended , making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.Sounds more like unrealistic expectations than a fault in the car .
Any time where there are sudden changes in the grade , CC may have trouble figuring out how to respond.If you hit the button and it does n't work the way you want , you should immediately resume full control of the car .
Repeatedly creating a situation of extreme acceleration and remedying it with the " coast " button is madness.It sounds like Woz has debugged the same problem -- cruise control is not magic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it wasn't as acute as was Steve describes.
If I was going up any small  hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once, twice, three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost +10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended, making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.Sounds more like unrealistic expectations than a fault in the car.
Any time where there are sudden changes in the grade, CC may have trouble figuring out how to respond.If you hit the button and it doesn't work the way you want, you should immediately resume full control of the car.
Repeatedly creating a situation of extreme acceleration and remedying it with the "coast" button is madness.It sounds like Woz has debugged the same problem -- cruise control is not magic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998248</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>c\_sd\_m</author>
	<datestamp>1265136180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Toyota's smarter than that, they'll weigh the cost of the recall against lawsuits plus loss of good will decreasing future sales (relative to the good will that's a sunk cost either way).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyota 's smarter than that , they 'll weigh the cost of the recall against lawsuits plus loss of good will decreasing future sales ( relative to the good will that 's a sunk cost either way ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyota's smarter than that, they'll weigh the cost of the recall against lawsuits plus loss of good will decreasing future sales (relative to the good will that's a sunk cost either way).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996226</id>
	<title>Re:I don't believe it</title>
	<author>lm317t</author>
	<datestamp>1265129580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him.  The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret, and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch, as I was about to take a sip.

I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil.  Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him .
The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret , and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch , as I was about to take a sip .
I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil .
Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have experienced 0-60 in half a sec in a Prius when I was rear ended by a Hummer when i pulled out in front of him.
The airbag deployed and knocked off my beret, and my latte scalded my lips and soul patch, as I was about to take a sip.
I am dead now but that is better for the planet because now my carbon foot print will be nil.
Sadly though it destroyed my Obama/Biden '08 bumper sticker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995856</id>
	<title>Not just a car company</title>
	<author>zerosomething</author>
	<datestamp>1265128380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext> I guess they didn't realize they are not only a car company but also a computer manufacture and application developer? So apparently they never created a bug reporting process, like every other app developer and hardware vendor?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess they did n't realize they are not only a car company but also a computer manufacture and application developer ?
So apparently they never created a bug reporting process , like every other app developer and hardware vendor ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I guess they didn't realize they are not only a car company but also a computer manufacture and application developer?
So apparently they never created a bug reporting process, like every other app developer and hardware vendor?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31021818</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265296620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a customer of Comcast who has reported several security concerns on their customer accounts over the past 2 years, I can tell you that Comcast has not changed.  I think they've gotten worse.</p><p>This is the company that had customer account data sent over regular http, despite clearly having SSL implemented on the servers.  And had it reported to them several times.  With verification by their "web security" division.  They never "fixed" the problem (required adding an 's' to a set links).  Except when they revamped customer accounts yet again a few months ago to some script heavy crap.</p><p>Time problem sat unfixed from time it was reported?  10.5 months.  A multibillion dollar corporation couldn't find a single competent individual to change 'http' to 'https'.</p><p>[Omit numerous stories about downed broadband and crappy tv and sending techs out 4 times before the headend operators authorized calling a truck roll.  "Yes, the picture is horrible.  Yes, I think there is a problem.  Yes, a tech has been out twice.  You have no documentation of it?  You have to send a tech out again?  I have to wait around for 2 hours again?  I can tell you what the other 2 techs said, the cable line signal is now too strong when you changed something on the network 1 1/2 months ago."]</p><p>It's funny--I remember reading an article years ago how Comcast was to Philadelphia as Coke was to Atlanta.  Strangely, I think Comcast gives Pennsylvania even a worse rep than it already had.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a customer of Comcast who has reported several security concerns on their customer accounts over the past 2 years , I can tell you that Comcast has not changed .
I think they 've gotten worse.This is the company that had customer account data sent over regular http , despite clearly having SSL implemented on the servers .
And had it reported to them several times .
With verification by their " web security " division .
They never " fixed " the problem ( required adding an 's ' to a set links ) .
Except when they revamped customer accounts yet again a few months ago to some script heavy crap.Time problem sat unfixed from time it was reported ?
10.5 months .
A multibillion dollar corporation could n't find a single competent individual to change 'http ' to 'https' .
[ Omit numerous stories about downed broadband and crappy tv and sending techs out 4 times before the headend operators authorized calling a truck roll .
" Yes , the picture is horrible .
Yes , I think there is a problem .
Yes , a tech has been out twice .
You have no documentation of it ?
You have to send a tech out again ?
I have to wait around for 2 hours again ?
I can tell you what the other 2 techs said , the cable line signal is now too strong when you changed something on the network 1 1/2 months ago .
" ] It 's funny--I remember reading an article years ago how Comcast was to Philadelphia as Coke was to Atlanta .
Strangely , I think Comcast gives Pennsylvania even a worse rep than it already had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a customer of Comcast who has reported several security concerns on their customer accounts over the past 2 years, I can tell you that Comcast has not changed.
I think they've gotten worse.This is the company that had customer account data sent over regular http, despite clearly having SSL implemented on the servers.
And had it reported to them several times.
With verification by their "web security" division.
They never "fixed" the problem (required adding an 's' to a set links).
Except when they revamped customer accounts yet again a few months ago to some script heavy crap.Time problem sat unfixed from time it was reported?
10.5 months.
A multibillion dollar corporation couldn't find a single competent individual to change 'http' to 'https'.
[Omit numerous stories about downed broadband and crappy tv and sending techs out 4 times before the headend operators authorized calling a truck roll.
"Yes, the picture is horrible.
Yes, I think there is a problem.
Yes, a tech has been out twice.
You have no documentation of it?
You have to send a tech out again?
I have to wait around for 2 hours again?
I can tell you what the other 2 techs said, the cable line signal is now too strong when you changed something on the network 1 1/2 months ago.
"]It's funny--I remember reading an article years ago how Comcast was to Philadelphia as Coke was to Atlanta.
Strangely, I think Comcast gives Pennsylvania even a worse rep than it already had.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997868</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>serbanp</author>
	<datestamp>1265134920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine.  Boring, but fine.</p></div><p>Did you really checked it? I'm pretty sure that your 2007 Prius has the same issue Woz is talking about. It involves increasing the car's speed using the cruise control. When you reach 83-84mph, watch out, 'cos one more button press will cause your car to go into WOT.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyway , my wife 's 2007 Prius runs fine .
Boring , but fine.Did you really checked it ?
I 'm pretty sure that your 2007 Prius has the same issue Woz is talking about .
It involves increasing the car 's speed using the cruise control .
When you reach 83-84mph , watch out , 'cos one more button press will cause your car to go into WOT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyway, my wife's 2007 Prius runs fine.
Boring, but fine.Did you really checked it?
I'm pretty sure that your 2007 Prius has the same issue Woz is talking about.
It involves increasing the car's speed using the cruise control.
When you reach 83-84mph, watch out, 'cos one more button press will cause your car to go into WOT.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998460</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1265136960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What it comes down to is the relative reliability between systems. Your current braking system will fail if one of the hydraulic lines is punctured and you lose pressure. In boosted brakes if the engine stops you lose a significant amount of stopping power. With an electronic system running on redundant wires, you could lose an entire brake and still manage. Also keep in mind that existing hydraulic systems have a cable driven backup (your handbrake), and I imagine an electronic system would have something similar. In the same vein, steering systems have mechanical linkages that can fail-- if a tie rod snaps you lose steering. Essentially, if an electrical system can be more reliable than its mechanical counterparts, it is worth considering. For the most part that hasn't happened for brakes and steering.
<br> <br>
Acceleration on the other hand is not really a "safety critical" system. Just about every modern car uses a drive by wire system for the accelerator rather than a throttle cable to the butterfly. A well-designed electronic system is not inherently less safe than a well designed mechanical system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What it comes down to is the relative reliability between systems .
Your current braking system will fail if one of the hydraulic lines is punctured and you lose pressure .
In boosted brakes if the engine stops you lose a significant amount of stopping power .
With an electronic system running on redundant wires , you could lose an entire brake and still manage .
Also keep in mind that existing hydraulic systems have a cable driven backup ( your handbrake ) , and I imagine an electronic system would have something similar .
In the same vein , steering systems have mechanical linkages that can fail-- if a tie rod snaps you lose steering .
Essentially , if an electrical system can be more reliable than its mechanical counterparts , it is worth considering .
For the most part that has n't happened for brakes and steering .
Acceleration on the other hand is not really a " safety critical " system .
Just about every modern car uses a drive by wire system for the accelerator rather than a throttle cable to the butterfly .
A well-designed electronic system is not inherently less safe than a well designed mechanical system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What it comes down to is the relative reliability between systems.
Your current braking system will fail if one of the hydraulic lines is punctured and you lose pressure.
In boosted brakes if the engine stops you lose a significant amount of stopping power.
With an electronic system running on redundant wires, you could lose an entire brake and still manage.
Also keep in mind that existing hydraulic systems have a cable driven backup (your handbrake), and I imagine an electronic system would have something similar.
In the same vein, steering systems have mechanical linkages that can fail-- if a tie rod snaps you lose steering.
Essentially, if an electrical system can be more reliable than its mechanical counterparts, it is worth considering.
For the most part that hasn't happened for brakes and steering.
Acceleration on the other hand is not really a "safety critical" system.
Just about every modern car uses a drive by wire system for the accelerator rather than a throttle cable to the butterfly.
A well-designed electronic system is not inherently less safe than a well designed mechanical system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997000</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Itninja</author>
	<datestamp>1265132220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...redlining your engine with no resistance</p></div></blockquote><p>
Again, wrong. All modern cars have a governor on the engine to prevent damage when not in gear. When the cars are in park or neutral, the engine will generally not exceed 4k RPMs, even with the accelerator floored. I have tried this in my Dodge Neon and my Scion xB (a Toyota) and confirmed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...redlining your engine with no resistance Again , wrong .
All modern cars have a governor on the engine to prevent damage when not in gear .
When the cars are in park or neutral , the engine will generally not exceed 4k RPMs , even with the accelerator floored .
I have tried this in my Dodge Neon and my Scion xB ( a Toyota ) and confirmed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...redlining your engine with no resistance
Again, wrong.
All modern cars have a governor on the engine to prevent damage when not in gear.
When the cars are in park or neutral, the engine will generally not exceed 4k RPMs, even with the accelerator floored.
I have tried this in my Dodge Neon and my Scion xB (a Toyota) and confirmed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996806</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>chickenrob</author>
	<datestamp>1265131500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>whatever. I had the cruise control stick on my lincoln a few times.  I turned the car off (the first click back on most cars turns the engine off but does not lock the steering wheel).  Contrary to popular belief you can have relatively good control of a car without the power steering and brakes. Use the muscles God gave you to steer the car to the side of the road and pump the brakes to build pressure in the braking system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>whatever .
I had the cruise control stick on my lincoln a few times .
I turned the car off ( the first click back on most cars turns the engine off but does not lock the steering wheel ) .
Contrary to popular belief you can have relatively good control of a car without the power steering and brakes .
Use the muscles God gave you to steer the car to the side of the road and pump the brakes to build pressure in the braking system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>whatever.
I had the cruise control stick on my lincoln a few times.
I turned the car off (the first click back on most cars turns the engine off but does not lock the steering wheel).
Contrary to popular belief you can have relatively good control of a car without the power steering and brakes.
Use the muscles God gave you to steer the car to the side of the road and pump the brakes to build pressure in the braking system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996690</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>lena\_10326</author>
	<datestamp>1265131140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come on.</p><p>What's with the obsession with parsing words around here? Jesus. You guys are getting out of hand. I think it was clear the OP was not saying "at the same time". It was clear he was describing cause and effect over time. Apply a little intelligence the next time you read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on.What 's with the obsession with parsing words around here ?
Jesus. You guys are getting out of hand .
I think it was clear the OP was not saying " at the same time " .
It was clear he was describing cause and effect over time .
Apply a little intelligence the next time you read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on.What's with the obsession with parsing words around here?
Jesus. You guys are getting out of hand.
I think it was clear the OP was not saying "at the same time".
It was clear he was describing cause and effect over time.
Apply a little intelligence the next time you read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31007006</id>
	<title>The scary thing is...</title>
	<author>The Breeze</author>
	<datestamp>1264971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never, ever, not once have I ever heard of Woz making a blanket, absolute statement phrased as fact about any type of electronic or mechanical system that was later found to be inaccurate.  Woz is, first and foremost, a methodical engineer and he never makes sweeping statements without something to back them up.  He may occasionally say things like, "Well, I think that..." but his strong phraseology indicates:</p><p>a.  He's damn sure there's something wrong<br>and<br>b.  Someone has really pissed him off.</p><p>Ultimately, I think Toyota is screwed on this one.  A lot of people don't know who Woz is.  Those who do know he's the guy who single-handedly solved electronic engineering problems that large teams never made progress on.  And, if he says something is really, really wrong, and Toyota is denying it, it just indicates that when it all finally comes out Toyota will almost certainly be proven wrong - and they may actually be sincere!  I could believe that Woz could find and identify a problem that Toyota's own engineers may not be able to come to a consensus on.</p><p>-Steve</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never , ever , not once have I ever heard of Woz making a blanket , absolute statement phrased as fact about any type of electronic or mechanical system that was later found to be inaccurate .
Woz is , first and foremost , a methodical engineer and he never makes sweeping statements without something to back them up .
He may occasionally say things like , " Well , I think that... " but his strong phraseology indicates : a. He 's damn sure there 's something wrongandb .
Someone has really pissed him off.Ultimately , I think Toyota is screwed on this one .
A lot of people do n't know who Woz is .
Those who do know he 's the guy who single-handedly solved electronic engineering problems that large teams never made progress on .
And , if he says something is really , really wrong , and Toyota is denying it , it just indicates that when it all finally comes out Toyota will almost certainly be proven wrong - and they may actually be sincere !
I could believe that Woz could find and identify a problem that Toyota 's own engineers may not be able to come to a consensus on.-Steve</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never, ever, not once have I ever heard of Woz making a blanket, absolute statement phrased as fact about any type of electronic or mechanical system that was later found to be inaccurate.
Woz is, first and foremost, a methodical engineer and he never makes sweeping statements without something to back them up.
He may occasionally say things like, "Well, I think that..." but his strong phraseology indicates:a.  He's damn sure there's something wrongandb.
Someone has really pissed him off.Ultimately, I think Toyota is screwed on this one.
A lot of people don't know who Woz is.
Those who do know he's the guy who single-handedly solved electronic engineering problems that large teams never made progress on.
And, if he says something is really, really wrong, and Toyota is denying it, it just indicates that when it all finally comes out Toyota will almost certainly be proven wrong - and they may actually be sincere!
I could believe that Woz could find and identify a problem that Toyota's own engineers may not be able to come to a consensus on.-Steve</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996968</id>
	<title>Keyless Ignition - no turning it off</title>
	<author>Fencepost</author>
	<datestamp>1265132160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the case mentioned (Mark Saylor, California Highway Patrol, '09 Lexus crash), I've seen reports that it wasn't possible to turn the key to kill the car, because it uses a push-button ignition. It's apparently possible to kill the engine by holding the button in, but since it was a loaner car he wasn't that familiar with it. Apparently the vehicle in question also has push-button shifting, and may not allow a shift into neutral while the vehicle is in motion.<br><br>Heck, what percentage of the general population knows that there's a difference between pressing the power button (signal to OS) on a modern PC and holding the power button (tell the power supply to shut down) on a modern PC?</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the case mentioned ( Mark Saylor , California Highway Patrol , '09 Lexus crash ) , I 've seen reports that it was n't possible to turn the key to kill the car , because it uses a push-button ignition .
It 's apparently possible to kill the engine by holding the button in , but since it was a loaner car he was n't that familiar with it .
Apparently the vehicle in question also has push-button shifting , and may not allow a shift into neutral while the vehicle is in motion.Heck , what percentage of the general population knows that there 's a difference between pressing the power button ( signal to OS ) on a modern PC and holding the power button ( tell the power supply to shut down ) on a modern PC ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the case mentioned (Mark Saylor, California Highway Patrol, '09 Lexus crash), I've seen reports that it wasn't possible to turn the key to kill the car, because it uses a push-button ignition.
It's apparently possible to kill the engine by holding the button in, but since it was a loaner car he wasn't that familiar with it.
Apparently the vehicle in question also has push-button shifting, and may not allow a shift into neutral while the vehicle is in motion.Heck, what percentage of the general population knows that there's a difference between pressing the power button (signal to OS) on a modern PC and holding the power button (tell the power supply to shut down) on a modern PC?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996046</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not sure what century you ar ein but "<a href="http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/drive-by-wire.htm" title="howstuffworks.com">drive by wire</a> [howstuffworks.com]" is pretty much the current wave of technology. I would expect manual linkage to steering, brakes and all drive train components to be a thing of the past in the VERY near future. Some of the drive train designs being unveiled at the autoshow put an electric motor on every wheel and eliminate mechanical drivetrain altogether.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure what century you ar ein but " drive by wire [ howstuffworks.com ] " is pretty much the current wave of technology .
I would expect manual linkage to steering , brakes and all drive train components to be a thing of the past in the VERY near future .
Some of the drive train designs being unveiled at the autoshow put an electric motor on every wheel and eliminate mechanical drivetrain altogether .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure what century you ar ein but "drive by wire [howstuffworks.com]" is pretty much the current wave of technology.
I would expect manual linkage to steering, brakes and all drive train components to be a thing of the past in the VERY near future.
Some of the drive train designs being unveiled at the autoshow put an electric motor on every wheel and eliminate mechanical drivetrain altogether.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996850</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>YesIAmAScript</author>
	<datestamp>1265131740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The car had a push button ignition, you had to hold the button 3.3 seconds to turn off the car while it is in motion. As this was a loaner car, he didn't know this. He should have, but he didn't.</p><p>Still, even without knowing that, he could have put the car into neutral and he failed to do that also.</p><p>Also, this Lexus isn't part of the pedal recall, it is only part of the floormat recall. Toyota doesn't think they have pedal problems with Japanese-built vehicles, and this (like all that I know of) Lexus is Japanese-built.</p><p>There were several ways Toyota could improve the car to overcome what happened in this case. First is, on many throttle-by-wire cars (like the Lexus ES 350 in this case), if you depress the brake, it cancels the gas. So if the gas is stuck, you brake normally and you're done. Audi has had this feature for 10 years. Another is that if you push the ignition button while moving, the car can put a message up saying "press and hold (or whatever) to turn off" instead of doing nothing. Also in a GM car for example, if you press the ignition button while moving twice within 5 seconds, the vehicle turns off. So in a panic case, you likely would press the button more than once and it would turn off.</p><p>So yeah, I believe this man could have saved his own life and failed to do so. He and the 3 others could be alive today. But Toyota has some steps they must take also to make the car more "fail-safe".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The car had a push button ignition , you had to hold the button 3.3 seconds to turn off the car while it is in motion .
As this was a loaner car , he did n't know this .
He should have , but he did n't.Still , even without knowing that , he could have put the car into neutral and he failed to do that also.Also , this Lexus is n't part of the pedal recall , it is only part of the floormat recall .
Toyota does n't think they have pedal problems with Japanese-built vehicles , and this ( like all that I know of ) Lexus is Japanese-built.There were several ways Toyota could improve the car to overcome what happened in this case .
First is , on many throttle-by-wire cars ( like the Lexus ES 350 in this case ) , if you depress the brake , it cancels the gas .
So if the gas is stuck , you brake normally and you 're done .
Audi has had this feature for 10 years .
Another is that if you push the ignition button while moving , the car can put a message up saying " press and hold ( or whatever ) to turn off " instead of doing nothing .
Also in a GM car for example , if you press the ignition button while moving twice within 5 seconds , the vehicle turns off .
So in a panic case , you likely would press the button more than once and it would turn off.So yeah , I believe this man could have saved his own life and failed to do so .
He and the 3 others could be alive today .
But Toyota has some steps they must take also to make the car more " fail-safe " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The car had a push button ignition, you had to hold the button 3.3 seconds to turn off the car while it is in motion.
As this was a loaner car, he didn't know this.
He should have, but he didn't.Still, even without knowing that, he could have put the car into neutral and he failed to do that also.Also, this Lexus isn't part of the pedal recall, it is only part of the floormat recall.
Toyota doesn't think they have pedal problems with Japanese-built vehicles, and this (like all that I know of) Lexus is Japanese-built.There were several ways Toyota could improve the car to overcome what happened in this case.
First is, on many throttle-by-wire cars (like the Lexus ES 350 in this case), if you depress the brake, it cancels the gas.
So if the gas is stuck, you brake normally and you're done.
Audi has had this feature for 10 years.
Another is that if you push the ignition button while moving, the car can put a message up saying "press and hold (or whatever) to turn off" instead of doing nothing.
Also in a GM car for example, if you press the ignition button while moving twice within 5 seconds, the vehicle turns off.
So in a panic case, you likely would press the button more than once and it would turn off.So yeah, I believe this man could have saved his own life and failed to do so.
He and the 3 others could be alive today.
But Toyota has some steps they must take also to make the car more "fail-safe".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999024</id>
	<title>Re:OP, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>afidel</author>
	<datestamp>1265139180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uh, I've never owned a car that did that... I would consider such an action to be a bug instead of a feature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , I 've never owned a car that did that... I would consider such an action to be a bug instead of a feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, I've never owned a car that did that... I would consider such an action to be a bug instead of a feature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999206</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Actually, I do RTFA</author>
	<datestamp>1265139840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Simple logic and noticing details. Woz debugged the problem. I debugged the problem. Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.</p></div></blockquote><p>There's also a level of experience.  I've found I can often tell people what part of their code is breaking, even with no exposure to the source, because I know where a lot of common traps are.  It also helps that I can determine what steps the computer probably has to go through, and what the consequences of a failure in one step would mean as it trickles to the next component.  But it's a skill-set that has to be learned and executed, it's not innate.</p><p>Good QA is a tough, demanding job.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple logic and noticing details .
Woz debugged the problem .
I debugged the problem .
Most people just do n't like to think logically and finely.There 's also a level of experience .
I 've found I can often tell people what part of their code is breaking , even with no exposure to the source , because I know where a lot of common traps are .
It also helps that I can determine what steps the computer probably has to go through , and what the consequences of a failure in one step would mean as it trickles to the next component .
But it 's a skill-set that has to be learned and executed , it 's not innate.Good QA is a tough , demanding job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple logic and noticing details.
Woz debugged the problem.
I debugged the problem.
Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.There's also a level of experience.
I've found I can often tell people what part of their code is breaking, even with no exposure to the source, because I know where a lot of common traps are.
It also helps that I can determine what steps the computer probably has to go through, and what the consequences of a failure in one step would mean as it trickles to the next component.
But it's a skill-set that has to be learned and executed, it's not innate.Good QA is a tough, demanding job.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997702</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On a slope or a curve, you have to accelerate if you want to maintain speed. Speed is a measure of how far you move in a given amount of time. Acceleration is a change in velocity, which is a combination of speed and direction. So, in those cases your acceleration may be changing your direction while maintaining your speed.</p><p>However, maybe your acceleration is not sufficient to maintain your speed while also changing your direction. I used to have an old car that had no problem reaching 55mph on a flat road, but would rapidly drop to barely maintaining 35mph on a not-too-steep hill even with the gas pedal floored. Of course, my car had some engine problems. Also, it is quite common for big RVs to lose 5-10mph on even fairly small hills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On a slope or a curve , you have to accelerate if you want to maintain speed .
Speed is a measure of how far you move in a given amount of time .
Acceleration is a change in velocity , which is a combination of speed and direction .
So , in those cases your acceleration may be changing your direction while maintaining your speed.However , maybe your acceleration is not sufficient to maintain your speed while also changing your direction .
I used to have an old car that had no problem reaching 55mph on a flat road , but would rapidly drop to barely maintaining 35mph on a not-too-steep hill even with the gas pedal floored .
Of course , my car had some engine problems .
Also , it is quite common for big RVs to lose 5-10mph on even fairly small hills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a slope or a curve, you have to accelerate if you want to maintain speed.
Speed is a measure of how far you move in a given amount of time.
Acceleration is a change in velocity, which is a combination of speed and direction.
So, in those cases your acceleration may be changing your direction while maintaining your speed.However, maybe your acceleration is not sufficient to maintain your speed while also changing your direction.
I used to have an old car that had no problem reaching 55mph on a flat road, but would rapidly drop to barely maintaining 35mph on a not-too-steep hill even with the gas pedal floored.
Of course, my car had some engine problems.
Also, it is quite common for big RVs to lose 5-10mph on even fairly small hills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31005328</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have the same problem in a 1994 Camry, so this has been around for awhile.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have the same problem in a 1994 Camry , so this has been around for awhile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have the same problem in a 1994 Camry, so this has been around for awhile.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002172</id>
	<title>Re:OP, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>mrchaotica</author>
	<datestamp>1265110380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everybody else is talking about cars with automatic transmissions. Yours were all apparently manuals. (Good choice, by the way!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everybody else is talking about cars with automatic transmissions .
Yours were all apparently manuals .
( Good choice , by the way !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everybody else is talking about cars with automatic transmissions.
Yours were all apparently manuals.
(Good choice, by the way!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995728</id>
	<title>I'm pretty sure...</title>
	<author>GhigoRenzulli</author>
	<datestamp>1265128080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>... he peed in the iPad when it happened for the first time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... he peed in the iPad when it happened for the first time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... he peed in the iPad when it happened for the first time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997134</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Scuttlebutt is that Toyota never put in an override into the throttle software. In a case like the pedal sticking, pushing on the brakes should tell the system to ignore what the gas pedal is doing and stop trying to gun the engine. I doubt Toyota would ever admit that except under investigation.</p><p>This is from someone who works at a competitor, so take it for what it is, an unsubstantiated rumor. But it does explain how that experienced Highway Patrolman died in that Lexus, calling in and saying he had no more brakes as he collided in the intersection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Scuttlebutt is that Toyota never put in an override into the throttle software .
In a case like the pedal sticking , pushing on the brakes should tell the system to ignore what the gas pedal is doing and stop trying to gun the engine .
I doubt Toyota would ever admit that except under investigation.This is from someone who works at a competitor , so take it for what it is , an unsubstantiated rumor .
But it does explain how that experienced Highway Patrolman died in that Lexus , calling in and saying he had no more brakes as he collided in the intersection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Scuttlebutt is that Toyota never put in an override into the throttle software.
In a case like the pedal sticking, pushing on the brakes should tell the system to ignore what the gas pedal is doing and stop trying to gun the engine.
I doubt Toyota would ever admit that except under investigation.This is from someone who works at a competitor, so take it for what it is, an unsubstantiated rumor.
But it does explain how that experienced Highway Patrolman died in that Lexus, calling in and saying he had no more brakes as he collided in the intersection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996710</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1265131200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did the same thing at  comcast before I left.</p><p>I embarassed an entire divisional Office.  they were still talking about how to approach the problem and I produced a working prototype to the CTO in their meeting.  He berated the other office of 8 that could not even get started on a project that I solved on my own in 1 week.</p><p>They still hate me to this day, and I've been gone for 4 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did the same thing at comcast before I left.I embarassed an entire divisional Office .
they were still talking about how to approach the problem and I produced a working prototype to the CTO in their meeting .
He berated the other office of 8 that could not even get started on a project that I solved on my own in 1 week.They still hate me to this day , and I 've been gone for 4 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did the same thing at  comcast before I left.I embarassed an entire divisional Office.
they were still talking about how to approach the problem and I produced a working prototype to the CTO in their meeting.
He berated the other office of 8 that could not even get started on a project that I solved on my own in 1 week.They still hate me to this day, and I've been gone for 4 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996748</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>spun</author>
	<datestamp>1265131320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, it drops down a gear, then accelerates wildly until at least 5mph over the setpoint, then upshifts, then loses speed, then accelerates... Which is why I downshift when going up a hill. It just maintains the correct speed, with no loss of speed and subsequent 'wild acceleration' to make up for it.</p><p>If Woz can reproduce this easily, like he claims, then this is the exact issue he is talking about, and all modern cars do it. Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission rather than running it off of engine pressure. And that would cost money.</p><p>I thought everyone who used a cruise control knew about and knew how to deal with this issue. Evidently not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , it drops down a gear , then accelerates wildly until at least 5mph over the setpoint , then upshifts , then loses speed , then accelerates... Which is why I downshift when going up a hill .
It just maintains the correct speed , with no loss of speed and subsequent 'wild acceleration ' to make up for it.If Woz can reproduce this easily , like he claims , then this is the exact issue he is talking about , and all modern cars do it .
Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission rather than running it off of engine pressure .
And that would cost money.I thought everyone who used a cruise control knew about and knew how to deal with this issue .
Evidently not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, it drops down a gear, then accelerates wildly until at least 5mph over the setpoint, then upshifts, then loses speed, then accelerates... Which is why I downshift when going up a hill.
It just maintains the correct speed, with no loss of speed and subsequent 'wild acceleration' to make up for it.If Woz can reproduce this easily, like he claims, then this is the exact issue he is talking about, and all modern cars do it.
Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission rather than running it off of engine pressure.
And that would cost money.I thought everyone who used a cruise control knew about and knew how to deal with this issue.
Evidently not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</id>
	<title>But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>captainpanic</author>
	<datestamp>1265128080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The car manufacturers checked and checked again. Found nothing.<br>But the Apple dude says there's something wrong!</p><p>I think I'll believe the computer guy, not the guys who actually designed, tested, certified and built the car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The car manufacturers checked and checked again .
Found nothing.But the Apple dude says there 's something wrong ! I think I 'll believe the computer guy , not the guys who actually designed , tested , certified and built the car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The car manufacturers checked and checked again.
Found nothing.But the Apple dude says there's something wrong!I think I'll believe the computer guy, not the guys who actually designed, tested, certified and built the car.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998142</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265135820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You DO stop the engine but keep the key on its place, that will not lock the steering but you'll lose power brakes and steering. I agree that it is strange that people can't figure this out.</p><p>That remembers me of a lady friend of my mom who couldn't who got stuck inside her car for hours when her battery died, she didn't know she could open the lock manually.</p><p>Maybe what we really need is competent drivers. Altough one would say a highway trooper was a competent driver.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You DO stop the engine but keep the key on its place , that will not lock the steering but you 'll lose power brakes and steering .
I agree that it is strange that people ca n't figure this out.That remembers me of a lady friend of my mom who could n't who got stuck inside her car for hours when her battery died , she did n't know she could open the lock manually.Maybe what we really need is competent drivers .
Altough one would say a highway trooper was a competent driver .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You DO stop the engine but keep the key on its place, that will not lock the steering but you'll lose power brakes and steering.
I agree that it is strange that people can't figure this out.That remembers me of a lady friend of my mom who couldn't who got stuck inside her car for hours when her battery died, she didn't know she could open the lock manually.Maybe what we really need is competent drivers.
Altough one would say a highway trooper was a competent driver.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995962</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To play devil's advocate...</p><p>Woz's problem might be specific to his own car.</p><p>I had an issue with my Cadillac's throttle assembly 3 months after buying the car (new).  It was a bad sensor.</p><p>At the time I didn't know what it was (throttle, fuel line, transmission, etc).  I searched through the big forum where EVERYONE reports their CTS problems and I only found 1 guy with a similar (yet different) issue.  There was no tech bulletin about it, no forum posts, etc.  There were other common issues out there which I managed to avoid, but this one was my particular piece that was the issue.</p><p>In short: until the car's engine temp reached equilibrium, pressing the accelerator more than 1/2 way caused the engine to buck wildly.  It was like I was alternating between flooring the gas pedal and taking my foot off every second.  This made merging and and stop signs quite unsafe, and I was able to replicate it 100\% of the time so long as the car was cooled down first.</p><p>I had to take it to the shop <b>3 flippin' times</b> before they addressed it.  The first few times they said "no problem, drive it until it's worse."  I had to sit in the car with a tester and finally told him "xxxx it, just floor it."  He flipped out and what the car did and called a tech from corporate to look at it.</p><p>So, it's possible he has an issue that's related to the Recall but not part of the same batch of issues.  It's a long shot, but still possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To play devil 's advocate...Woz 's problem might be specific to his own car.I had an issue with my Cadillac 's throttle assembly 3 months after buying the car ( new ) .
It was a bad sensor.At the time I did n't know what it was ( throttle , fuel line , transmission , etc ) .
I searched through the big forum where EVERYONE reports their CTS problems and I only found 1 guy with a similar ( yet different ) issue .
There was no tech bulletin about it , no forum posts , etc .
There were other common issues out there which I managed to avoid , but this one was my particular piece that was the issue.In short : until the car 's engine temp reached equilibrium , pressing the accelerator more than 1/2 way caused the engine to buck wildly .
It was like I was alternating between flooring the gas pedal and taking my foot off every second .
This made merging and and stop signs quite unsafe , and I was able to replicate it 100 \ % of the time so long as the car was cooled down first.I had to take it to the shop 3 flippin ' times before they addressed it .
The first few times they said " no problem , drive it until it 's worse .
" I had to sit in the car with a tester and finally told him " xxxx it , just floor it .
" He flipped out and what the car did and called a tech from corporate to look at it.So , it 's possible he has an issue that 's related to the Recall but not part of the same batch of issues .
It 's a long shot , but still possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To play devil's advocate...Woz's problem might be specific to his own car.I had an issue with my Cadillac's throttle assembly 3 months after buying the car (new).
It was a bad sensor.At the time I didn't know what it was (throttle, fuel line, transmission, etc).
I searched through the big forum where EVERYONE reports their CTS problems and I only found 1 guy with a similar (yet different) issue.
There was no tech bulletin about it, no forum posts, etc.
There were other common issues out there which I managed to avoid, but this one was my particular piece that was the issue.In short: until the car's engine temp reached equilibrium, pressing the accelerator more than 1/2 way caused the engine to buck wildly.
It was like I was alternating between flooring the gas pedal and taking my foot off every second.
This made merging and and stop signs quite unsafe, and I was able to replicate it 100\% of the time so long as the car was cooled down first.I had to take it to the shop 3 flippin' times before they addressed it.
The first few times they said "no problem, drive it until it's worse.
"  I had to sit in the car with a tester and finally told him "xxxx it, just floor it.
"  He flipped out and what the car did and called a tech from corporate to look at it.So, it's possible he has an issue that's related to the Recall but not part of the same batch of issues.
It's a long shot, but still possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997974</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>fmaresca</author>
	<datestamp>1265135280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether. Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly. Instead:</p><p>Put the car in NEUTRAL. The engine will disengage.
Hit the brake HARD. Do not pump.
Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</p></div><p>Brake hard without traction and steering at the same time is dangerous at high speed. This maneuver should not be attempted by a casual or non very skilled driver, the car can easily turn over and end on it's roof.

The correct way for control a car in this situation is stop the engine, let the car slow down using transmission-motor brake, and slowly turn to the right, and then get it on neutral and stop.

For the FA, I don't know if the engine will speed-down on putting neutral, or it will run wild. If the later, a engine explosion could happen as it goes over RPM, which would cause more confusion to the car driver and the adjacent vehicles.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel , preventing you from steering altogether .
Whats more , you 'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly .
Instead : Put the car in NEUTRAL .
The engine will disengage .
Hit the brake HARD .
Do not pump .
Steer the car off the road , and once its stopped , you can PARK it and turn off the engine.Brake hard without traction and steering at the same time is dangerous at high speed .
This maneuver should not be attempted by a casual or non very skilled driver , the car can easily turn over and end on it 's roof .
The correct way for control a car in this situation is stop the engine , let the car slow down using transmission-motor brake , and slowly turn to the right , and then get it on neutral and stop .
For the FA , I do n't know if the engine will speed-down on putting neutral , or it will run wild .
If the later , a engine explosion could happen as it goes over RPM , which would cause more confusion to the car driver and the adjacent vehicles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether.
Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly.
Instead:Put the car in NEUTRAL.
The engine will disengage.
Hit the brake HARD.
Do not pump.
Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.Brake hard without traction and steering at the same time is dangerous at high speed.
This maneuver should not be attempted by a casual or non very skilled driver, the car can easily turn over and end on it's roof.
The correct way for control a car in this situation is stop the engine, let the car slow down using transmission-motor brake, and slowly turn to the right, and then get it on neutral and stop.
For the FA, I don't know if the engine will speed-down on putting neutral, or it will run wild.
If the later, a engine explosion could happen as it goes over RPM, which would cause more confusion to the car driver and the adjacent vehicles.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997008</id>
	<title>Wrong Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Turning off the car WILL NEVER lock your steering wheel. Pulling the key out of the ignition may lock the wheel, but many cars don't lock if they are moving above a certain speed</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Turning off the car WILL NEVER lock your steering wheel .
Pulling the key out of the ignition may lock the wheel , but many cars do n't lock if they are moving above a certain speed</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turning off the car WILL NEVER lock your steering wheel.
Pulling the key out of the ignition may lock the wheel, but many cars don't lock if they are moving above a certain speed</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31003912</id>
	<title>Re:My 1994 Chrysler New Yorker Had Similar Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265120580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually one VERY nice thing about my 91 Mitsubishi 3000GT. The cruise control setup on it only works between I believe 45 mph and 85 mph, maybe 90. Regardless the point being that the car WILL NOT go outside this range, except perhaps on a steep downhill grade. Furthermore rather than each click of the accelerate button moving it up 1 mph in speed, it only holds the last speed it was at when you let go of the accel button. So if it goes to WOT due to you holding the button down, but you let it off at say 65 mph, even though it might hit 70 due to still being under the influence of acceleration, it will drop back to 65 as soon as the throttle body closes enough to reduce airflow, same as if you stomped the gas pedal to the floor then let off.</p><p>I'd actually been annoyed by it in the past since it always seemed to end up beng a few MPH below what I wanted speed-wise because of how it worked. But having read up about Woz's problem with the cruise control and the throttle pedal in the other toyota cars, I have to say I'm glad for how the system works on it, and probably other older cars. Throttle by Wire, Brake by Wire, Non-mechanical ignition setups, etc. All this new technology scares the shit out of me for reliability purposes, and I just don't see it improving in the future with ever more computer controlled automobiles. I've pretty much set my cutoff date for any 'new' vehicles I get at 2000 or so, and any Throttle-by-wire cars are strictly off the menu. ABS had plenty of problems of it's own, but at least on most cars you could pull a fuse and go back to comfortable old manual braking style. With these new cars and their fully electronic non-mechanically connected systems, it's becoming MUCH scarier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually one VERY nice thing about my 91 Mitsubishi 3000GT .
The cruise control setup on it only works between I believe 45 mph and 85 mph , maybe 90 .
Regardless the point being that the car WILL NOT go outside this range , except perhaps on a steep downhill grade .
Furthermore rather than each click of the accelerate button moving it up 1 mph in speed , it only holds the last speed it was at when you let go of the accel button .
So if it goes to WOT due to you holding the button down , but you let it off at say 65 mph , even though it might hit 70 due to still being under the influence of acceleration , it will drop back to 65 as soon as the throttle body closes enough to reduce airflow , same as if you stomped the gas pedal to the floor then let off.I 'd actually been annoyed by it in the past since it always seemed to end up beng a few MPH below what I wanted speed-wise because of how it worked .
But having read up about Woz 's problem with the cruise control and the throttle pedal in the other toyota cars , I have to say I 'm glad for how the system works on it , and probably other older cars .
Throttle by Wire , Brake by Wire , Non-mechanical ignition setups , etc .
All this new technology scares the shit out of me for reliability purposes , and I just do n't see it improving in the future with ever more computer controlled automobiles .
I 've pretty much set my cutoff date for any 'new ' vehicles I get at 2000 or so , and any Throttle-by-wire cars are strictly off the menu .
ABS had plenty of problems of it 's own , but at least on most cars you could pull a fuse and go back to comfortable old manual braking style .
With these new cars and their fully electronic non-mechanically connected systems , it 's becoming MUCH scarier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually one VERY nice thing about my 91 Mitsubishi 3000GT.
The cruise control setup on it only works between I believe 45 mph and 85 mph, maybe 90.
Regardless the point being that the car WILL NOT go outside this range, except perhaps on a steep downhill grade.
Furthermore rather than each click of the accelerate button moving it up 1 mph in speed, it only holds the last speed it was at when you let go of the accel button.
So if it goes to WOT due to you holding the button down, but you let it off at say 65 mph, even though it might hit 70 due to still being under the influence of acceleration, it will drop back to 65 as soon as the throttle body closes enough to reduce airflow, same as if you stomped the gas pedal to the floor then let off.I'd actually been annoyed by it in the past since it always seemed to end up beng a few MPH below what I wanted speed-wise because of how it worked.
But having read up about Woz's problem with the cruise control and the throttle pedal in the other toyota cars, I have to say I'm glad for how the system works on it, and probably other older cars.
Throttle by Wire, Brake by Wire, Non-mechanical ignition setups, etc.
All this new technology scares the shit out of me for reliability purposes, and I just don't see it improving in the future with ever more computer controlled automobiles.
I've pretty much set my cutoff date for any 'new' vehicles I get at 2000 or so, and any Throttle-by-wire cars are strictly off the menu.
ABS had plenty of problems of it's own, but at least on most cars you could pull a fuse and go back to comfortable old manual braking style.
With these new cars and their fully electronic non-mechanically connected systems, it's becoming MUCH scarier.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996618</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1265130840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This applies when doing 90 on a freeway, yeah? Better advice is "Put it in neutral, put your hazard lights on, steer to the hard shoulder / side of the road, break safely.<br> <br>Any aggressive change in speed or direction should be avoided <b>AT ALL COSTS</b> no matter where you are. What you need to to is maintain composure and keep control of your vehicle. As soon as your wheels lock, you've lost it, and on a high speed road a lot of people could die.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This applies when doing 90 on a freeway , yeah ?
Better advice is " Put it in neutral , put your hazard lights on , steer to the hard shoulder / side of the road , break safely .
Any aggressive change in speed or direction should be avoided AT ALL COSTS no matter where you are .
What you need to to is maintain composure and keep control of your vehicle .
As soon as your wheels lock , you 've lost it , and on a high speed road a lot of people could die .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This applies when doing 90 on a freeway, yeah?
Better advice is "Put it in neutral, put your hazard lights on, steer to the hard shoulder / side of the road, break safely.
Any aggressive change in speed or direction should be avoided AT ALL COSTS no matter where you are.
What you need to to is maintain composure and keep control of your vehicle.
As soon as your wheels lock, you've lost it, and on a high speed road a lot of people could die.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997384</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Rob the Bold</author>
	<datestamp>1265133420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This whole "sudden acceleration" issue is a non-issue (or at least it should be a bug, but not a horrible death trap) if people just had functioning brains; as the parent said: "PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS (sic)" and all should come to a stop.  I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people's brains...</p></div><p>Isn't it bad enough that other cars on the roads can do unpredictable things on the road?  Now you gotta be prepared for <em>your</em> car to go nuts too?  Most of the time what you describe is what happens -- driver gets the car back in control.  You don't hear much in the news about accidents that don't happen, though.  Accidents do happen when a sufficient number of problems arise at once and exceed the driver's ability to cope with all of them in time.  Some of those things are the your fault, some are the other guy's fault, some are your passengers', some are environmental, some just happenstance.  Exceed the driver's ability to cope and you will occasionally get crashes.  Put enough cars on the road and "occasionally" adds up.  This has nothing to do with diet, excepting actually eating while driving of course.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This whole " sudden acceleration " issue is a non-issue ( or at least it should be a bug , but not a horrible death trap ) if people just had functioning brains ; as the parent said : " PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS ( sic ) " and all should come to a stop .
I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people 's brains...Is n't it bad enough that other cars on the roads can do unpredictable things on the road ?
Now you got ta be prepared for your car to go nuts too ?
Most of the time what you describe is what happens -- driver gets the car back in control .
You do n't hear much in the news about accidents that do n't happen , though .
Accidents do happen when a sufficient number of problems arise at once and exceed the driver 's ability to cope with all of them in time .
Some of those things are the your fault , some are the other guy 's fault , some are your passengers ' , some are environmental , some just happenstance .
Exceed the driver 's ability to cope and you will occasionally get crashes .
Put enough cars on the road and " occasionally " adds up .
This has nothing to do with diet , excepting actually eating while driving of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This whole "sudden acceleration" issue is a non-issue (or at least it should be a bug, but not a horrible death trap) if people just had functioning brains; as the parent said: "PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS (sic)" and all should come to a stop.
I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people's brains...Isn't it bad enough that other cars on the roads can do unpredictable things on the road?
Now you gotta be prepared for your car to go nuts too?
Most of the time what you describe is what happens -- driver gets the car back in control.
You don't hear much in the news about accidents that don't happen, though.
Accidents do happen when a sufficient number of problems arise at once and exceed the driver's ability to cope with all of them in time.
Some of those things are the your fault, some are the other guy's fault, some are your passengers', some are environmental, some just happenstance.
Exceed the driver's ability to cope and you will occasionally get crashes.
Put enough cars on the road and "occasionally" adds up.
This has nothing to do with diet, excepting actually eating while driving of course.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000176</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1265143980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a really hard time believing this story.  97 in a Prius?  Was he being pushed by another car?  Falling off a cliff?  Have a 200mph tail wind in a hurricane?</p><p>He'd run out of gas before he got to 97 in a Prius under normal means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a really hard time believing this story .
97 in a Prius ?
Was he being pushed by another car ?
Falling off a cliff ?
Have a 200mph tail wind in a hurricane ? He 'd run out of gas before he got to 97 in a Prius under normal means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a really hard time believing this story.
97 in a Prius?
Was he being pushed by another car?
Falling off a cliff?
Have a 200mph tail wind in a hurricane?He'd run out of gas before he got to 97 in a Prius under normal means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996356</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>nolife</author>
	<datestamp>1265130000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do not just "turn off" the engine, make it clear to turn the ignition switch back ONE single position, commonly the accessory position.  If you completely turn the key the whole way, your steering wheel will lock and you will be just as phucked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do not just " turn off " the engine , make it clear to turn the ignition switch back ONE single position , commonly the accessory position .
If you completely turn the key the whole way , your steering wheel will lock and you will be just as phucked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do not just "turn off" the engine, make it clear to turn the ignition switch back ONE single position, commonly the accessory position.
If you completely turn the key the whole way, your steering wheel will lock and you will be just as phucked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002386</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>mrchaotica</author>
	<datestamp>1265111700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Of course if it's a manual you can just drop the clutch.</p></div></blockquote><p>You mean pressing or depressing the clutch, pushing it in. "Dropping" the clutch means letting it out (and quickly, as when drag racing). If you think it sounds backwards, consider it as dropping the clutch plates into each other so that they engage.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course if it 's a manual you can just drop the clutch.You mean pressing or depressing the clutch , pushing it in .
" Dropping " the clutch means letting it out ( and quickly , as when drag racing ) .
If you think it sounds backwards , consider it as dropping the clutch plates into each other so that they engage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course if it's a manual you can just drop the clutch.You mean pressing or depressing the clutch, pushing it in.
"Dropping" the clutch means letting it out (and quickly, as when drag racing).
If you think it sounds backwards, consider it as dropping the clutch plates into each other so that they engage.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999314</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>wiredlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1265140200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Whats more, you'll lose power brakes</p></div><p>Actually, the brake booster will still function normally on the first actuation of the brake pedal after the engine is turned off. This is assuming that the check valve on the vacuum line is working correctly and there are no other leaks such that there is still full vacuum in the booster. After the first time the pedal is released the vacuum will begin to diminish as the booster fills with air at normal pressure.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whats more , you 'll lose power brakesActually , the brake booster will still function normally on the first actuation of the brake pedal after the engine is turned off .
This is assuming that the check valve on the vacuum line is working correctly and there are no other leaks such that there is still full vacuum in the booster .
After the first time the pedal is released the vacuum will begin to diminish as the booster fills with air at normal pressure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whats more, you'll lose power brakesActually, the brake booster will still function normally on the first actuation of the brake pedal after the engine is turned off.
This is assuming that the check valve on the vacuum line is working correctly and there are no other leaks such that there is still full vacuum in the booster.
After the first time the pedal is released the vacuum will begin to diminish as the booster fills with air at normal pressure.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997462</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265133660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yuo have to both turn the engine off AND remove the key before the steering will lock.  Sure, you still lose the power steering and power brakes, but if you are having trouble getting itinto neutral while the transmission is under load and there is no corner coming up I see no problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yuo have to both turn the engine off AND remove the key before the steering will lock .
Sure , you still lose the power steering and power brakes , but if you are having trouble getting itinto neutral while the transmission is under load and there is no corner coming up I see no problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yuo have to both turn the engine off AND remove the key before the steering will lock.
Sure, you still lose the power steering and power brakes, but if you are having trouble getting itinto neutral while the transmission is under load and there is no corner coming up I see no problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This happened internally at my company.</p><p>We had a problem and, unexpectedly, I figured out what it was instead of the appropriate department.  They not only ignored the solution but tried every other possible solution before implementing the solution.  And they are still (2 years later) pissy about it.  The tools I used to solve the problem were disabled.</p><p>I'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they couldn't.</p><p>But the same thing was true in both cases.  Simple logic and noticing details.  Woz debugged the problem.  I debugged the problem.  Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.</p><p>I hope Toyota gets their head out of their posterior exit and listens to him.  People have died over this issue (including a cop trained in emergency driving along with his wife and 2 kids).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This happened internally at my company.We had a problem and , unexpectedly , I figured out what it was instead of the appropriate department .
They not only ignored the solution but tried every other possible solution before implementing the solution .
And they are still ( 2 years later ) pissy about it .
The tools I used to solve the problem were disabled.I 'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they could n't.But the same thing was true in both cases .
Simple logic and noticing details .
Woz debugged the problem .
I debugged the problem .
Most people just do n't like to think logically and finely.I hope Toyota gets their head out of their posterior exit and listens to him .
People have died over this issue ( including a cop trained in emergency driving along with his wife and 2 kids ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This happened internally at my company.We had a problem and, unexpectedly, I figured out what it was instead of the appropriate department.
They not only ignored the solution but tried every other possible solution before implementing the solution.
And they are still (2 years later) pissy about it.
The tools I used to solve the problem were disabled.I'm sure there is an entire department of Toyota people who would be very embarrassed that a person outside their department AND outside their company AND outside their business figured out the problem when they couldn't.But the same thing was true in both cases.
Simple logic and noticing details.
Woz debugged the problem.
I debugged the problem.
Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.I hope Toyota gets their head out of their posterior exit and listens to him.
People have died over this issue (including a cop trained in emergency driving along with his wife and 2 kids).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996512</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1265130540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?  They have all sorts of interlocks on them.</p><p>Of course if it's a manual you can just drop the clutch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it 's moving ?
They have all sorts of interlocks on them.Of course if it 's a manual you can just drop the clutch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?
They have all sorts of interlocks on them.Of course if it's a manual you can just drop the clutch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997900</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265135040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>grab the key and <b>TURN OFF THE ENGINE</b> </p></div><p>What key?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE What key ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE What key?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000262</id>
	<title>Re:My 1994 Chrysler New Yorker Had Similar Problem</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1265144280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you were experiencing was the engine down shifting to try and accelerate to the speed you had told it to go to.  When in the higher gear it couldn't accelerate fast enough so you kept hitting the button, so it was set to a much higher speed than you actually wanted.  Then it changed gears and had the additional power and accelerated quickly towards its target speed.</p><p>Your problem was a user issue.  The same problem still exists in cars today.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you were experiencing was the engine down shifting to try and accelerate to the speed you had told it to go to .
When in the higher gear it could n't accelerate fast enough so you kept hitting the button , so it was set to a much higher speed than you actually wanted .
Then it changed gears and had the additional power and accelerated quickly towards its target speed.Your problem was a user issue .
The same problem still exists in cars today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you were experiencing was the engine down shifting to try and accelerate to the speed you had told it to go to.
When in the higher gear it couldn't accelerate fast enough so you kept hitting the button, so it was set to a much higher speed than you actually wanted.
Then it changed gears and had the additional power and accelerated quickly towards its target speed.Your problem was a user issue.
The same problem still exists in cars today.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996466</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Fnkmaster</author>
	<datestamp>1265130360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org">Doesn't sound like he's an idiot to me.</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't sound like he 's an idiot to me .
[ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't sound like he's an idiot to me.
[slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997232</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Sepultura</author>
	<datestamp>1265132940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong, at least for Toyotas - See <a href="http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html" title="toyota.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html</a> [toyota.com]<br>Note:<br>"If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.<br>If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong , at least for Toyotas - See http : //www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html [ toyota.com ] Note : " If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral , turn the engine OFF .
This will not cause loss of steering or braking control , but the power assist to these systems will be lost.If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button , firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine .
Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong, at least for Toyotas - See http://www.toyota.com/recall/pedal.html [toyota.com]Note:"If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF.
This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine.
Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001300</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>stewbacca</author>
	<datestamp>1265105760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um, the brake pedal is on the left. It usually shuts the cruise control off. If that fails, brakes generally tend to slow a car down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , the brake pedal is on the left .
It usually shuts the cruise control off .
If that fails , brakes generally tend to slow a car down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, the brake pedal is on the left.
It usually shuts the cruise control off.
If that fails, brakes generally tend to slow a car down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996454</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>mother\_reincarnated</author>
	<datestamp>1265130300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod parent up and GP DOWN!</p><p>NEUTRAL people, not key off...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up and GP DOWN ! NEUTRAL people , not key off.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up and GP DOWN!NEUTRAL people, not key off...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001428</id>
	<title>Why no safeguards?</title>
	<author>drussell</author>
	<datestamp>1265106360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No matter how well tested and bug-free these types of systems are SUPPOSED to be, a basic design principle of any system should always be to have built in safety checks for things like conflicting input values that make no sense.  Even though it SHOULD never happen, the computer should watch for invalid information (like not opening the throttle past a certain point if the brakes are applied) just in case something fails.  If the input values make no sense, always default to the safest case.  While a throttle cable breaking could potentially cause an accident if the car returns to idle or doesn't move from a stop, drivers shouldn't be ending up in a situation where that is a problem.  If is designed so that if the cable breaks the throttle spring defaults to wide open throttle, this would be an obvious design error.  Why they have not managed to build this system correctly eludes me.  It can't possibly be designed correctly for this application if these types of faults can even be possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No matter how well tested and bug-free these types of systems are SUPPOSED to be , a basic design principle of any system should always be to have built in safety checks for things like conflicting input values that make no sense .
Even though it SHOULD never happen , the computer should watch for invalid information ( like not opening the throttle past a certain point if the brakes are applied ) just in case something fails .
If the input values make no sense , always default to the safest case .
While a throttle cable breaking could potentially cause an accident if the car returns to idle or does n't move from a stop , drivers should n't be ending up in a situation where that is a problem .
If is designed so that if the cable breaks the throttle spring defaults to wide open throttle , this would be an obvious design error .
Why they have not managed to build this system correctly eludes me .
It ca n't possibly be designed correctly for this application if these types of faults can even be possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No matter how well tested and bug-free these types of systems are SUPPOSED to be, a basic design principle of any system should always be to have built in safety checks for things like conflicting input values that make no sense.
Even though it SHOULD never happen, the computer should watch for invalid information (like not opening the throttle past a certain point if the brakes are applied) just in case something fails.
If the input values make no sense, always default to the safest case.
While a throttle cable breaking could potentially cause an accident if the car returns to idle or doesn't move from a stop, drivers shouldn't be ending up in a situation where that is a problem.
If is designed so that if the cable breaks the throttle spring defaults to wide open throttle, this would be an obvious design error.
Why they have not managed to build this system correctly eludes me.
It can't possibly be designed correctly for this application if these types of faults can even be possible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996362</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1265130000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>woz said he could reproduce safely<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. I bet it is the same isssue as : <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org">This poster op </a> [slashdot.org] </p></div><p>I'll bet it is too. I'm willing to bet a whole lot of money it is.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>woz said he could reproduce safely .. I bet it is the same isssue as : This poster op [ slashdot.org ] I 'll bet it is too .
I 'm willing to bet a whole lot of money it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>woz said he could reproduce safely .. I bet it is the same isssue as : This poster op  [slashdot.org] I'll bet it is too.
I'm willing to bet a whole lot of money it is.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998416</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1265136840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?</i></p><p>Yes. That's a safety feature, this thread demonstrates its necessity.</p><p><i>They have all sorts of interlocks on them.</i></p><p>If by "all sorts of interlocks" you mean "one, on reverse, same as a manual transmission", then yes.</p><p>That said, someone posted to Slashdot the other day saying their automatic transmission had an interlock preventing it from going into Neutral from Drive while at speed. I've never witnessed this, and they didn't post the make/model of their car, so until I see more evidence I'm not taking that report seriously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it 's moving ? Yes .
That 's a safety feature , this thread demonstrates its necessity.They have all sorts of interlocks on them.If by " all sorts of interlocks " you mean " one , on reverse , same as a manual transmission " , then yes.That said , someone posted to Slashdot the other day saying their automatic transmission had an interlock preventing it from going into Neutral from Drive while at speed .
I 've never witnessed this , and they did n't post the make/model of their car , so until I see more evidence I 'm not taking that report seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?Yes.
That's a safety feature, this thread demonstrates its necessity.They have all sorts of interlocks on them.If by "all sorts of interlocks" you mean "one, on reverse, same as a manual transmission", then yes.That said, someone posted to Slashdot the other day saying their automatic transmission had an interlock preventing it from going into Neutral from Drive while at speed.
I've never witnessed this, and they didn't post the make/model of their car, so until I see more evidence I'm not taking that report seriously.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995622</id>
	<title>Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265127720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems true in nearly all industries: The people they hire to staff customer service are so unqualified that they cannot recognize when the caller actually IS qualified.  They have no procedures in place to rapidly escalate calls from customers who actually know more than they do.
<p>
Businesses lose the opportunity to obtain knowledgeable input, because their call centers are staffed by low labor-cost morons.  The need to identify technically savvy callers and hand-off those calls to comparably competent staff members.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems true in nearly all industries : The people they hire to staff customer service are so unqualified that they can not recognize when the caller actually IS qualified .
They have no procedures in place to rapidly escalate calls from customers who actually know more than they do .
Businesses lose the opportunity to obtain knowledgeable input , because their call centers are staffed by low labor-cost morons .
The need to identify technically savvy callers and hand-off those calls to comparably competent staff members .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems true in nearly all industries: The people they hire to staff customer service are so unqualified that they cannot recognize when the caller actually IS qualified.
They have no procedures in place to rapidly escalate calls from customers who actually know more than they do.
Businesses lose the opportunity to obtain knowledgeable input, because their call centers are staffed by low labor-cost morons.
The need to identify technically savvy callers and hand-off those calls to comparably competent staff members.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31004348</id>
	<title>Boy, am I glad I don't own a Toymota</title>
	<author>phlegmboy</author>
	<datestamp>1265123700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I will stick with my 17 year old Holden (local GM owned car maker) with it's mechanical accelerator. That way I don't have to peel my face of the back of a truck due to a shitty piece of Jap crap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I will stick with my 17 year old Holden ( local GM owned car maker ) with it 's mechanical accelerator .
That way I do n't have to peel my face of the back of a truck due to a shitty piece of Jap crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will stick with my 17 year old Holden (local GM owned car maker) with it's mechanical accelerator.
That way I don't have to peel my face of the back of a truck due to a shitty piece of Jap crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998184</id>
	<title>Re:Safely. noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1265136000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that was sort of his point: "Yes, it is a bug. Yes, Toyota needs to fix it." From TFS, he said he could reproduce it safely and consistently, but *wasn't getting a response* from Toyota about the issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that was sort of his point : " Yes , it is a bug .
Yes , Toyota needs to fix it .
" From TFS , he said he could reproduce it safely and consistently , but * was n't getting a response * from Toyota about the issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that was sort of his point: "Yes, it is a bug.
Yes, Toyota needs to fix it.
" From TFS, he said he could reproduce it safely and consistently, but *wasn't getting a response* from Toyota about the issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</id>
	<title>A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Drivers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, of course get your car serviced if it's part of the official recall. That's a gimme.</p><p>More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and <b>TURN OFF THE ENGINE</b>. Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas. This didn't seem too difficult to me, but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> The 911 call came at 6:35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego. The caller, a male voice, was panic-stricken: "We're in a Lexus<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we're going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we're in trouble<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... there's no brakes<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we're approaching the intersection<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hold on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hold on and pray<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... pray<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..." The call ended with the sound of a crash.</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/01toyota.html?hp=&amp;pagewanted=all" title="nytimes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/01toyota.html?hp=&amp;pagewanted=all</a> [nytimes.com]</p><p>I know it's not kind to speak ill of the dead, and I understand that it wasn't their fault that their car was fatally defective (and Toyota is completely at fault) but it's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problem -- car is going too fast =&gt; stop the engine. This has really been boggling my mind for the past week as these incidents pile up -- if someone can explain this to me, I'll be eternally grateful.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , of course get your car serviced if it 's part of the official recall .
That 's a gim me.More importantly , if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open , for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE .
Yes , you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas .
This did n't seem too difficult to me , but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step .
The 911 call came at 6 : 35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego .
The caller , a male voice , was panic-stricken : " We 're in a Lexus ... we 're going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck ... we 're in trouble ... there 's no brakes ... we 're approaching the intersection ... hold on ... hold on and pray ... pray ... " The call ended with the sound of a crash .
http : //www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/01toyota.html ? hp = &amp;pagewanted = all [ nytimes.com ] I know it 's not kind to speak ill of the dead , and I understand that it was n't their fault that their car was fatally defective ( and Toyota is completely at fault ) but it 's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problem -- car is going too fast = &gt; stop the engine .
This has really been boggling my mind for the past week as these incidents pile up -- if someone can explain this to me , I 'll be eternally grateful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, of course get your car serviced if it's part of the official recall.
That's a gimme.More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE.
Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas.
This didn't seem too difficult to me, but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step.
The 911 call came at 6:35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego.
The caller, a male voice, was panic-stricken: "We're in a Lexus ... we're going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck ... we're in trouble ... there's no brakes ... we're approaching the intersection ... hold on ... hold on and pray ... pray ..." The call ended with the sound of a crash.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/01toyota.html?hp=&amp;pagewanted=all [nytimes.com]I know it's not kind to speak ill of the dead, and I understand that it wasn't their fault that their car was fatally defective (and Toyota is completely at fault) but it's hard for me to comprehend how someone could fail to deduce the rather straightforward solution to their problem -- car is going too fast =&gt; stop the engine.
This has really been boggling my mind for the past week as these incidents pile up -- if someone can explain this to me, I'll be eternally grateful.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995920</id>
	<title>Obligatory Blame</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>North Korea and Iran.</p><p>This should keep Secretary of State Hillary Clinton busy for<br>the next couple of years before the Republicans are returned to control the world's richest oligarchy for the next<br>one hundred years.</p><p>Yours In Ashgabat,<br>K. Trout</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>North Korea and Iran.This should keep Secretary of State Hillary Clinton busy forthe next couple of years before the Republicans are returned to control the world 's richest oligarchy for the nextone hundred years.Yours In Ashgabat,K .
Trout</tokentext>
<sentencetext>North Korea and Iran.This should keep Secretary of State Hillary Clinton busy forthe next couple of years before the Republicans are returned to control the world's richest oligarchy for the nextone hundred years.Yours In Ashgabat,K.
Trout</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997356</id>
	<title>Problem and explanation discussed here before</title>
	<author>laing</author>
	<datestamp>1265133360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>See Woz's original post <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org">here</a> [slashdot.org].  And the explanation <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29975440" title="slashdot.org">here</a> [slashdot.org].  It could be argued that Toyota should change their cruise control interface so it doesn't keep increasing the "set" speed beyond a few mph above the actual speed.  As long as you are aware of how it works, it does not pose a danger.</htmltext>
<tokenext>See Woz 's original post here [ slashdot.org ] .
And the explanation here [ slashdot.org ] .
It could be argued that Toyota should change their cruise control interface so it does n't keep increasing the " set " speed beyond a few mph above the actual speed .
As long as you are aware of how it works , it does not pose a danger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See Woz's original post here [slashdot.org].
And the explanation here [slashdot.org].
It could be argued that Toyota should change their cruise control interface so it doesn't keep increasing the "set" speed beyond a few mph above the actual speed.
As long as you are aware of how it works, it does not pose a danger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996236</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop. In the fatality cases, if the driver had forced the car into neutral (the linkage would have resisted, you would have needed to really muscle it) they could have saved themselves. Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle.</i></p><p>I have not seen the reports but "burned the brake shoes"?  Really?  I have been in very few cars that the brakes were not a lot more powerful than the engine.  The ones that weren't were rear drive 400+ HP cars with loads of torque and stock brakes.  Far from what the typical Toyota has.  I am not disputing the test results, I am more amazed that the brakes on these cars are that crappy.</p><p>There are video floating around on you tube with people holding the brakes on cars and flooring it, I beleive they were in response to either a volv0 or a jeep incident where the owner plowed into their garage when the "accelerator stuck".  I beleive in that one, the person was pushing the wrong pedal.  Granted different thing all together than this issue with Toyota but still shows how even with the car floored, the brakes had no problem stopping the car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note , in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through , indicating that once these cars took off on people , they COULD NOT stop .
In the fatality cases , if the driver had forced the car into neutral ( the linkage would have resisted , you would have needed to really muscle it ) they could have saved themselves .
Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle.I have not seen the reports but " burned the brake shoes " ?
Really ? I have been in very few cars that the brakes were not a lot more powerful than the engine .
The ones that were n't were rear drive 400 + HP cars with loads of torque and stock brakes .
Far from what the typical Toyota has .
I am not disputing the test results , I am more amazed that the brakes on these cars are that crappy.There are video floating around on you tube with people holding the brakes on cars and flooring it , I beleive they were in response to either a volv0 or a jeep incident where the owner plowed into their garage when the " accelerator stuck " .
I beleive in that one , the person was pushing the wrong pedal .
Granted different thing all together than this issue with Toyota but still shows how even with the car floored , the brakes had no problem stopping the car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop.
In the fatality cases, if the driver had forced the car into neutral (the linkage would have resisted, you would have needed to really muscle it) they could have saved themselves.
Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle.I have not seen the reports but "burned the brake shoes"?
Really?  I have been in very few cars that the brakes were not a lot more powerful than the engine.
The ones that weren't were rear drive 400+ HP cars with loads of torque and stock brakes.
Far from what the typical Toyota has.
I am not disputing the test results, I am more amazed that the brakes on these cars are that crappy.There are video floating around on you tube with people holding the brakes on cars and flooring it, I beleive they were in response to either a volv0 or a jeep incident where the owner plowed into their garage when the "accelerator stuck".
I beleive in that one, the person was pushing the wrong pedal.
Granted different thing all together than this issue with Toyota but still shows how even with the car floored, the brakes had no problem stopping the car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999582</id>
	<title>Re: Not always possible</title>
	<author>colinnwn</author>
	<datestamp>1265141340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some new cars with electronically controlled transmissions may either try to lock you out of shifting from drive when it thinks you shouldn't. This can generally be overridden by really slamming the gear shift to neutral, breaking the locking mechanism. Or some cars now have no mechanical linkage between the shifter and transmission. In this case you flat can't do anything.
<br> <br>
If your preferred method doesn't work, you need to be ready and willing to turn the car off rather than die in a flaming wreck. Most cars with this level of computer control probably won't lock the wheel unless the car is at a stop. Of course they shouldn't have failed in such a dangerous way either, so YMMV.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some new cars with electronically controlled transmissions may either try to lock you out of shifting from drive when it thinks you should n't .
This can generally be overridden by really slamming the gear shift to neutral , breaking the locking mechanism .
Or some cars now have no mechanical linkage between the shifter and transmission .
In this case you flat ca n't do anything .
If your preferred method does n't work , you need to be ready and willing to turn the car off rather than die in a flaming wreck .
Most cars with this level of computer control probably wo n't lock the wheel unless the car is at a stop .
Of course they should n't have failed in such a dangerous way either , so YMMV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some new cars with electronically controlled transmissions may either try to lock you out of shifting from drive when it thinks you shouldn't.
This can generally be overridden by really slamming the gear shift to neutral, breaking the locking mechanism.
Or some cars now have no mechanical linkage between the shifter and transmission.
In this case you flat can't do anything.
If your preferred method doesn't work, you need to be ready and willing to turn the car off rather than die in a flaming wreck.
Most cars with this level of computer control probably won't lock the wheel unless the car is at a stop.
Of course they shouldn't have failed in such a dangerous way either, so YMMV.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002746</id>
	<title>PID controller problem?</title>
	<author>bjs555</author>
	<datestamp>1265113860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just a guess -<br>A PID algorithm is used for cruise control and reset windup isn't handled properly. That is, the integral term (which zeros out the small error that must exist using proportional control alone) can grow large when the system hasn't reached the setpoint after a long time. That condition can occur when driving up a hill or when the car isn't in a suitable gear. A large uncorrected integral term can cause the control system output to saturate (equivalent to flooring the gas pedal) resulting in loss of control. Reset windup is generally handled by logic to halt integration when the controller output reaches a predetermined output.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just a guess -A PID algorithm is used for cruise control and reset windup is n't handled properly .
That is , the integral term ( which zeros out the small error that must exist using proportional control alone ) can grow large when the system has n't reached the setpoint after a long time .
That condition can occur when driving up a hill or when the car is n't in a suitable gear .
A large uncorrected integral term can cause the control system output to saturate ( equivalent to flooring the gas pedal ) resulting in loss of control .
Reset windup is generally handled by logic to halt integration when the controller output reaches a predetermined output .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just a guess -A PID algorithm is used for cruise control and reset windup isn't handled properly.
That is, the integral term (which zeros out the small error that must exist using proportional control alone) can grow large when the system hasn't reached the setpoint after a long time.
That condition can occur when driving up a hill or when the car isn't in a suitable gear.
A large uncorrected integral term can cause the control system output to saturate (equivalent to flooring the gas pedal) resulting in loss of control.
Reset windup is generally handled by logic to halt integration when the controller output reaches a predetermined output.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001808</id>
	<title>Sounds like a busted switch</title>
	<author>RzUpAnmsCwrds</author>
	<datestamp>1265108520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Let's say that I'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal. I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83. Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit. Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more. By then my Prius is doing 97. It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control. I tested this over and over the night I observed it.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is EXACTLY the kind of behavior that would occur if the switch were to fail in the "speed up - closed" position. You can replicate this by holding up on the speed control switch.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's say that I 'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal .
I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up , say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again , up to 83 .
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off , no speed limit .
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I 've done it about 10 times or more .
By then my Prius is doing 97 .
It 's scary because it 's so wrong and so out of your normal control .
I tested this over and over the night I observed it.This is EXACTLY the kind of behavior that would occur if the switch were to fail in the " speed up - closed " position .
You can replicate this by holding up on the speed control switch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's say that I'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal.
I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83.
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit.
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more.
By then my Prius is doing 97.
It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control.
I tested this over and over the night I observed it.This is EXACTLY the kind of behavior that would occur if the switch were to fail in the "speed up - closed" position.
You can replicate this by holding up on the speed control switch.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997956</id>
	<title>I can't believe, nobody mentioned Fight Club:</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1265135220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><strong>Narrator:</strong> A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.<br><strong>Woman on plane:</strong> Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?<br><strong>Narrator:</strong> You wouldn't believe.<br><strong>Woman on plane:</strong> Which car company do you work for?<br><strong>Narrator:</strong> A major one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Narrator : A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph .
The rear differential locks up .
The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside .
Now , should we initiate a recall ?
Take the number of vehicles in the field , A , multiply by the probable rate of failure , B , multiply by the average out-of-court settlement , C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall , we do n't do one.Woman on plane : Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents ? Narrator : You would n't believe.Woman on plane : Which car company do you work for ? Narrator : A major one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph.
The rear differential locks up.
The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside.
Now, should we initiate a recall?
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?Narrator: You wouldn't believe.Woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?Narrator: A major one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999196</id>
	<title>Sour Grapes?</title>
	<author>osmifo</author>
	<datestamp>1265139780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not that he doesn't have a problem with his car, but Steve Wozniak apparently has been stopped going 100+MPH more than once by the CHP.

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=wozniak+speeding+ticket" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=wozniak+speeding+ticket</a> [google.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that he does n't have a problem with his car , but Steve Wozniak apparently has been stopped going 100 + MPH more than once by the CHP .
http : //www.google.com/search ? sourceid = chrome&amp;ie = UTF-8&amp;q = wozniak + speeding + ticket [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that he doesn't have a problem with his car, but Steve Wozniak apparently has been stopped going 100+MPH more than once by the CHP.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=wozniak+speeding+ticket [google.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001250</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265105580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know better. 99.9\% of the "experts" that call customer service are people who think they know a whole lot,</i></p><p>Stop right there. Even experts will call in when it affects their wallet.</p><p>The difference between these two conversations, is the truth:<br>a) "Hello, I can't get my {device} to work. I'm a {analogy to device} expert and this should be working."<br>and<br>b) "Can you get me the **** to someone who knows what they are doing, I'm an expert with {device} and you ******* morons are not letting me use it like I want it to. Send me to a supervisor, right now"</p><p>People who are A, may actually know what they are doing, and will be sent up the chain when "for quality purposes" the customer service agent has at least pretended to be following the policy, but really just wants to get you to someone who can help.</p><p>People who are B, normally don't know anything, and just want to be sent to someone who isn't "a goddamn moron" because they assume that the entire call center is staffed by monkeys flinging poo. These people are a joke, and customer service staff are required to follow the policy to the letter so such arrogant morons don't waste time with the people who can actually fix the problem.</p><p>There is a chain of escalation in every call center it usually works like this</p><p>1. Call into customer support<br>a) if customer is polite and you can no longer help, send up the chain<br>b) if customer is rude, send to escalation/help desk (not technicians or supervisors)<br>2. (Tier II, usually technicians, managers or people designated to ) If the customer still can not get help from your department, find out where they can go.<br>a) If the customer continues to be polite, send them to the next department<br>b) If the customer becomes rude, or drops the L bomb (lawsuit), advise them that the call must be terminated.<br>3. (Tier III, senior techs, upper management and occasionally office of the president) If the customer can not get help at this point, they have been barking up the wrong tree.</p><p>It's important to point out that, the front line people have all the policies in front of them, and if they can't help you, usually someone above them can not either, as the people above are not supposed to handle calls except from their own staff. If you get passed up the chain, it's because you know what you're talking about, not because you demanded it. This way, at least from a technical sense, you aren't going to waste anyones time.</p><p>When it involves billing, never ask to be sent to someone above without letting the rep try to fix it first. Usually doing so results in this conversation between the person you are speaking to and their supervisor/helpdesk:<br>"This customer will not accept that they have been billed for X, what should I do"<br>Manager - "Tell them we will rerate them for Y, if they don't accept and insist on talking to me, I'm taking that offer off the table."</p><p>Also each time you are escalated, discretionary credit is reduced, so don't ask to be escalated if you're only looking for credits. It has to be outside the representatives allowed discretionary credit limit before someone above them is involved.</p><p>In the Woz's case, he wasn't going to get anywhere calling Toyota. His best chance at getting that information to Toyota would have been to take the vehicle in for service and have it explained to the technician on-site, and if it's not fixed, write a letter to the office of the president and/or take it to the media.</p><p>The trouble with large companies, is that there are so many layers to go through, that the message is often lost if it's not initially given to someone who has the ability to fix it. So the call center/email support is generally the wrong place to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service , because they know better .
99.9 \ % of the " experts " that call customer service are people who think they know a whole lot,Stop right there .
Even experts will call in when it affects their wallet.The difference between these two conversations , is the truth : a ) " Hello , I ca n't get my { device } to work .
I 'm a { analogy to device } expert and this should be working .
" andb ) " Can you get me the * * * * to someone who knows what they are doing , I 'm an expert with { device } and you * * * * * * * morons are not letting me use it like I want it to .
Send me to a supervisor , right now " People who are A , may actually know what they are doing , and will be sent up the chain when " for quality purposes " the customer service agent has at least pretended to be following the policy , but really just wants to get you to someone who can help.People who are B , normally do n't know anything , and just want to be sent to someone who is n't " a goddamn moron " because they assume that the entire call center is staffed by monkeys flinging poo .
These people are a joke , and customer service staff are required to follow the policy to the letter so such arrogant morons do n't waste time with the people who can actually fix the problem.There is a chain of escalation in every call center it usually works like this1 .
Call into customer supporta ) if customer is polite and you can no longer help , send up the chainb ) if customer is rude , send to escalation/help desk ( not technicians or supervisors ) 2 .
( Tier II , usually technicians , managers or people designated to ) If the customer still can not get help from your department , find out where they can go.a ) If the customer continues to be polite , send them to the next departmentb ) If the customer becomes rude , or drops the L bomb ( lawsuit ) , advise them that the call must be terminated.3 .
( Tier III , senior techs , upper management and occasionally office of the president ) If the customer can not get help at this point , they have been barking up the wrong tree.It 's important to point out that , the front line people have all the policies in front of them , and if they ca n't help you , usually someone above them can not either , as the people above are not supposed to handle calls except from their own staff .
If you get passed up the chain , it 's because you know what you 're talking about , not because you demanded it .
This way , at least from a technical sense , you are n't going to waste anyones time.When it involves billing , never ask to be sent to someone above without letting the rep try to fix it first .
Usually doing so results in this conversation between the person you are speaking to and their supervisor/helpdesk : " This customer will not accept that they have been billed for X , what should I do " Manager - " Tell them we will rerate them for Y , if they do n't accept and insist on talking to me , I 'm taking that offer off the table .
" Also each time you are escalated , discretionary credit is reduced , so do n't ask to be escalated if you 're only looking for credits .
It has to be outside the representatives allowed discretionary credit limit before someone above them is involved.In the Woz 's case , he was n't going to get anywhere calling Toyota .
His best chance at getting that information to Toyota would have been to take the vehicle in for service and have it explained to the technician on-site , and if it 's not fixed , write a letter to the office of the president and/or take it to the media.The trouble with large companies , is that there are so many layers to go through , that the message is often lost if it 's not initially given to someone who has the ability to fix it .
So the call center/email support is generally the wrong place to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know better.
99.9\% of the "experts" that call customer service are people who think they know a whole lot,Stop right there.
Even experts will call in when it affects their wallet.The difference between these two conversations, is the truth:a) "Hello, I can't get my {device} to work.
I'm a {analogy to device} expert and this should be working.
"andb) "Can you get me the **** to someone who knows what they are doing, I'm an expert with {device} and you ******* morons are not letting me use it like I want it to.
Send me to a supervisor, right now"People who are A, may actually know what they are doing, and will be sent up the chain when "for quality purposes" the customer service agent has at least pretended to be following the policy, but really just wants to get you to someone who can help.People who are B, normally don't know anything, and just want to be sent to someone who isn't "a goddamn moron" because they assume that the entire call center is staffed by monkeys flinging poo.
These people are a joke, and customer service staff are required to follow the policy to the letter so such arrogant morons don't waste time with the people who can actually fix the problem.There is a chain of escalation in every call center it usually works like this1.
Call into customer supporta) if customer is polite and you can no longer help, send up the chainb) if customer is rude, send to escalation/help desk (not technicians or supervisors)2.
(Tier II, usually technicians, managers or people designated to ) If the customer still can not get help from your department, find out where they can go.a) If the customer continues to be polite, send them to the next departmentb) If the customer becomes rude, or drops the L bomb (lawsuit), advise them that the call must be terminated.3.
(Tier III, senior techs, upper management and occasionally office of the president) If the customer can not get help at this point, they have been barking up the wrong tree.It's important to point out that, the front line people have all the policies in front of them, and if they can't help you, usually someone above them can not either, as the people above are not supposed to handle calls except from their own staff.
If you get passed up the chain, it's because you know what you're talking about, not because you demanded it.
This way, at least from a technical sense, you aren't going to waste anyones time.When it involves billing, never ask to be sent to someone above without letting the rep try to fix it first.
Usually doing so results in this conversation between the person you are speaking to and their supervisor/helpdesk:"This customer will not accept that they have been billed for X, what should I do"Manager - "Tell them we will rerate them for Y, if they don't accept and insist on talking to me, I'm taking that offer off the table.
"Also each time you are escalated, discretionary credit is reduced, so don't ask to be escalated if you're only looking for credits.
It has to be outside the representatives allowed discretionary credit limit before someone above them is involved.In the Woz's case, he wasn't going to get anywhere calling Toyota.
His best chance at getting that information to Toyota would have been to take the vehicle in for service and have it explained to the technician on-site, and if it's not fixed, write a letter to the office of the president and/or take it to the media.The trouble with large companies, is that there are so many layers to go through, that the message is often lost if it's not initially given to someone who has the ability to fix it.
So the call center/email support is generally the wrong place to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995862</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm willing to give Woz the benefit of the doubt on this until his complaint is actually heard, tested and responded to by Toyota.   He's generally a smart guy (if a little wacky sometimes.)  And he's got a lot of time on his hands, and no obvious motive for smearing Toyota.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm willing to give Woz the benefit of the doubt on this until his complaint is actually heard , tested and responded to by Toyota .
He 's generally a smart guy ( if a little wacky sometimes .
) And he 's got a lot of time on his hands , and no obvious motive for smearing Toyota .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm willing to give Woz the benefit of the doubt on this until his complaint is actually heard, tested and responded to by Toyota.
He's generally a smart guy (if a little wacky sometimes.
)  And he's got a lot of time on his hands, and no obvious motive for smearing Toyota.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997804</id>
	<title>Ignorant. Ever heard of push button start / stop?</title>
	<author>1800maxim</author>
	<datestamp>1265134740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is no key to turn.<br> <br>

It was a loaner car. His car was serviced, so the dealer gave him this Lexus to drive.<br> <br>

The Lexus had push button start/stop. If parked, you press the button and the engine starts. If parked, and the engine is running, you press the button, and the engine stops. HOWEVER, if you are moving, you need to press and hold the button for 3 seconds before the engine is shut off. Nobody explained it to him.<br> <br>

The call was made by someone in the car, not the driver. Either the wife or one of the kids.
<br> <br>
The more you know...</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no key to turn .
It was a loaner car .
His car was serviced , so the dealer gave him this Lexus to drive .
The Lexus had push button start/stop .
If parked , you press the button and the engine starts .
If parked , and the engine is running , you press the button , and the engine stops .
HOWEVER , if you are moving , you need to press and hold the button for 3 seconds before the engine is shut off .
Nobody explained it to him .
The call was made by someone in the car , not the driver .
Either the wife or one of the kids .
The more you know.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no key to turn.
It was a loaner car.
His car was serviced, so the dealer gave him this Lexus to drive.
The Lexus had push button start/stop.
If parked, you press the button and the engine starts.
If parked, and the engine is running, you press the button, and the engine stops.
HOWEVER, if you are moving, you need to press and hold the button for 3 seconds before the engine is shut off.
Nobody explained it to him.
The call was made by someone in the car, not the driver.
Either the wife or one of the kids.
The more you know...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997192</id>
	<title>For the Record...</title>
	<author>mkiwi</author>
	<datestamp>1265132820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...I have the exact same problem as Woz with my 2007 Camry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...I have the exact same problem as Woz with my 2007 Camry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I have the exact same problem as Woz with my 2007 Camry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998056</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>jandrese</author>
	<datestamp>1265135520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I personally would not want to drive a car that did not have manual linkage to the steering.  Anybody who has ever had a power steering pump fail on them will know what I'm talking about.  Heavy steering is much better than no steering at all.  I also would not want a car that had purely electronic brakes for the same reason.<br>
<br>
Stuff breaks, and you want the failure condition to be as safe as possible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I personally would not want to drive a car that did not have manual linkage to the steering .
Anybody who has ever had a power steering pump fail on them will know what I 'm talking about .
Heavy steering is much better than no steering at all .
I also would not want a car that had purely electronic brakes for the same reason .
Stuff breaks , and you want the failure condition to be as safe as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I personally would not want to drive a car that did not have manual linkage to the steering.
Anybody who has ever had a power steering pump fail on them will know what I'm talking about.
Heavy steering is much better than no steering at all.
I also would not want a car that had purely electronic brakes for the same reason.
Stuff breaks, and you want the failure condition to be as safe as possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997792</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Cprossu</author>
	<datestamp>1265134680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm with you on this one. Especially considering how alike automotive computers and old computers were. (It wasn't that long ago that most automotive computers still used some form of 6800 chip at it's core).<br>Back when "Fly by wire" for automobiles was a new thing, quite a few people and engineers alike wanted some sort of fallback or mechanical interlock to avoid this kind of issue (for an example the brake having an extra mechanism for closing the throttle mechanically), but this of course defeated the whole industries purpose of drive by wire, which was to get rid of the bulky mechanisms and make it so they could place the throttle body wherever they wanted despite weird positioning, which would make it cheaper in the long run... The prius has a different reason for needing drive by wire, and that stems from it's planetary gearset power "split" system, in which torque management is very important so you don't break anything and so you get the right movement to the right pieces.... When I saw the first reports of what happened back a while ago, my first thought was not the floor mats, but the potentiometer in the accelerator pedal, and if that checked out, then a possible "race" condition that existed because of either defective software or some deficiency of the hardware they failed to recognize and program around....</p><p>This sounds very like the same types of problems the famed old "Therac 25" experienced: A hardware safety/interlock replaced by a software one, the software failing because of some reason (it might not be coded wrong, but the hardware might interpret it wrong under certain conditions), and death resulting because an important piece of the device malfunctioned. It gets to be scarier when you think that it's not a long stretch to make cars transmissions without any fallback, ignition systems that are only state indicators to the computer, unable to do anything should that input be ignored, leaving you with an out of control drivetrain and powertrain without any way to safely power it down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm with you on this one .
Especially considering how alike automotive computers and old computers were .
( It was n't that long ago that most automotive computers still used some form of 6800 chip at it 's core ) .Back when " Fly by wire " for automobiles was a new thing , quite a few people and engineers alike wanted some sort of fallback or mechanical interlock to avoid this kind of issue ( for an example the brake having an extra mechanism for closing the throttle mechanically ) , but this of course defeated the whole industries purpose of drive by wire , which was to get rid of the bulky mechanisms and make it so they could place the throttle body wherever they wanted despite weird positioning , which would make it cheaper in the long run... The prius has a different reason for needing drive by wire , and that stems from it 's planetary gearset power " split " system , in which torque management is very important so you do n't break anything and so you get the right movement to the right pieces.... When I saw the first reports of what happened back a while ago , my first thought was not the floor mats , but the potentiometer in the accelerator pedal , and if that checked out , then a possible " race " condition that existed because of either defective software or some deficiency of the hardware they failed to recognize and program around....This sounds very like the same types of problems the famed old " Therac 25 " experienced : A hardware safety/interlock replaced by a software one , the software failing because of some reason ( it might not be coded wrong , but the hardware might interpret it wrong under certain conditions ) , and death resulting because an important piece of the device malfunctioned .
It gets to be scarier when you think that it 's not a long stretch to make cars transmissions without any fallback , ignition systems that are only state indicators to the computer , unable to do anything should that input be ignored , leaving you with an out of control drivetrain and powertrain without any way to safely power it down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm with you on this one.
Especially considering how alike automotive computers and old computers were.
(It wasn't that long ago that most automotive computers still used some form of 6800 chip at it's core).Back when "Fly by wire" for automobiles was a new thing, quite a few people and engineers alike wanted some sort of fallback or mechanical interlock to avoid this kind of issue (for an example the brake having an extra mechanism for closing the throttle mechanically), but this of course defeated the whole industries purpose of drive by wire, which was to get rid of the bulky mechanisms and make it so they could place the throttle body wherever they wanted despite weird positioning, which would make it cheaper in the long run... The prius has a different reason for needing drive by wire, and that stems from it's planetary gearset power "split" system, in which torque management is very important so you don't break anything and so you get the right movement to the right pieces.... When I saw the first reports of what happened back a while ago, my first thought was not the floor mats, but the potentiometer in the accelerator pedal, and if that checked out, then a possible "race" condition that existed because of either defective software or some deficiency of the hardware they failed to recognize and program around....This sounds very like the same types of problems the famed old "Therac 25" experienced: A hardware safety/interlock replaced by a software one, the software failing because of some reason (it might not be coded wrong, but the hardware might interpret it wrong under certain conditions), and death resulting because an important piece of the device malfunctioned.
It gets to be scarier when you think that it's not a long stretch to make cars transmissions without any fallback, ignition systems that are only state indicators to the computer, unable to do anything should that input be ignored, leaving you with an out of control drivetrain and powertrain without any way to safely power it down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997148</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1265132700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving doesn't do anything. Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that.</p></div><p>I've always wondered how many engine starter motors have burned out because people crank away for two minutes when the engine simply is not going to start (empty gas tank, etc).</p><p>Not being an idiot, its hard to predict what they do, but killing starter motors is some evidence they'll just keep on doing what doesn't work.  Also see locking up brakes (pre ABS era), various poor driving judgment decisions especially relating to alcohol consumption, prayer, voting for either of the two major parties, most long term financial / educational / vocational decisions, etc.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving does n't do anything .
Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that.I 've always wondered how many engine starter motors have burned out because people crank away for two minutes when the engine simply is not going to start ( empty gas tank , etc ) .Not being an idiot , its hard to predict what they do , but killing starter motors is some evidence they 'll just keep on doing what does n't work .
Also see locking up brakes ( pre ABS era ) , various poor driving judgment decisions especially relating to alcohol consumption , prayer , voting for either of the two major parties , most long term financial / educational / vocational decisions , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving doesn't do anything.
Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that.I've always wondered how many engine starter motors have burned out because people crank away for two minutes when the engine simply is not going to start (empty gas tank, etc).Not being an idiot, its hard to predict what they do, but killing starter motors is some evidence they'll just keep on doing what doesn't work.
Also see locking up brakes (pre ABS era), various poor driving judgment decisions especially relating to alcohol consumption, prayer, voting for either of the two major parties, most long term financial / educational / vocational decisions, etc.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997612</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>ei4anb</author>
	<datestamp>1265134140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>BS. First the off button must be pressed for three seconds before it will switch off. In a rental the driver may not know that. When you do turn it off you lose power brakes and power steering. Neutral is the recommended mode for dealing with a runaway and press on the brakes without pumping (which depletes the vacuum resevoir). Selecting neutral is easier in the Prius as the selector has fewer positions than the other models.<p>
Note that the servo assisted brakes take their power from the <b>pressure difference in the inlet manifold</b>. At high engine RPM that pressure difference is LESS. When the engine revs wildly the <b>brakes are less effective</b>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>BS .
First the off button must be pressed for three seconds before it will switch off .
In a rental the driver may not know that .
When you do turn it off you lose power brakes and power steering .
Neutral is the recommended mode for dealing with a runaway and press on the brakes without pumping ( which depletes the vacuum resevoir ) .
Selecting neutral is easier in the Prius as the selector has fewer positions than the other models .
Note that the servo assisted brakes take their power from the pressure difference in the inlet manifold .
At high engine RPM that pressure difference is LESS .
When the engine revs wildly the brakes are less effective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BS.
First the off button must be pressed for three seconds before it will switch off.
In a rental the driver may not know that.
When you do turn it off you lose power brakes and power steering.
Neutral is the recommended mode for dealing with a runaway and press on the brakes without pumping (which depletes the vacuum resevoir).
Selecting neutral is easier in the Prius as the selector has fewer positions than the other models.
Note that the servo assisted brakes take their power from the pressure difference in the inlet manifold.
At high engine RPM that pressure difference is LESS.
When the engine revs wildly the brakes are less effective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996572</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265130720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That really amazes me, but I've never worked in a big corporate environment.
<br> <br>
I've gone back and forth with a small software library vendor several times about bugs. I know what I'm talking about, I can usually provide useful, sometimes very specific information, and so I talk to the main programmer and we get the bug fixed. That's how things should work.
<br> <br>
It's sad that when things scale up, it rapidly becomes a Faceless Corporate Entity, rather than a collection of human beings. Dunno how to fix that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That really amazes me , but I 've never worked in a big corporate environment .
I 've gone back and forth with a small software library vendor several times about bugs .
I know what I 'm talking about , I can usually provide useful , sometimes very specific information , and so I talk to the main programmer and we get the bug fixed .
That 's how things should work .
It 's sad that when things scale up , it rapidly becomes a Faceless Corporate Entity , rather than a collection of human beings .
Dunno how to fix that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That really amazes me, but I've never worked in a big corporate environment.
I've gone back and forth with a small software library vendor several times about bugs.
I know what I'm talking about, I can usually provide useful, sometimes very specific information, and so I talk to the main programmer and we get the bug fixed.
That's how things should work.
It's sad that when things scale up, it rapidly becomes a Faceless Corporate Entity, rather than a collection of human beings.
Dunno how to fix that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997304</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>bell.colin</author>
	<datestamp>1265133240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except that the people that are always arguing that driving is a right rather than a privilege forget that drivers license is an operating license, as in you are are trained to operate that class of vehicle and are trained in it's safety operations and now they forget what they are supposed to do. (after all we have states that seem to hand them out like candy)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that the people that are always arguing that driving is a right rather than a privilege forget that drivers license is an operating license , as in you are are trained to operate that class of vehicle and are trained in it 's safety operations and now they forget what they are supposed to do .
( after all we have states that seem to hand them out like candy )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that the people that are always arguing that driving is a right rather than a privilege forget that drivers license is an operating license, as in you are are trained to operate that class of vehicle and are trained in it's safety operations and now they forget what they are supposed to do.
(after all we have states that seem to hand them out like candy)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996330</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1265129940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're going 80, accelerating, and not controlling your car well enough that a sudden acceleration like that kills you, you would have died anyway. Even when legal, I don't think 85 is something you should leave on cruise control. The difference between cruising at 85 and cruising at 100 isn't really that significant from a safety standpoint. Both are not great ideas.</p><p>Just go 80. If you're the sort of person that cares enough about fuel efficiency to buy a Prius, you ought to care about the significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're going 80 , accelerating , and not controlling your car well enough that a sudden acceleration like that kills you , you would have died anyway .
Even when legal , I do n't think 85 is something you should leave on cruise control .
The difference between cruising at 85 and cruising at 100 is n't really that significant from a safety standpoint .
Both are not great ideas.Just go 80 .
If you 're the sort of person that cares enough about fuel efficiency to buy a Prius , you ought to care about the significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're going 80, accelerating, and not controlling your car well enough that a sudden acceleration like that kills you, you would have died anyway.
Even when legal, I don't think 85 is something you should leave on cruise control.
The difference between cruising at 85 and cruising at 100 isn't really that significant from a safety standpoint.
Both are not great ideas.Just go 80.
If you're the sort of person that cares enough about fuel efficiency to buy a Prius, you ought to care about the significant drops in fuel efficiency that appear when you start moving up past 75 or so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997200</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The ignition and transmission in a Prius are both controlled 100\% electronically. Changing to neutral or turning off the car won't happen unless the car's software agrees with your intentions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The ignition and transmission in a Prius are both controlled 100 \ % electronically .
Changing to neutral or turning off the car wo n't happen unless the car 's software agrees with your intentions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ignition and transmission in a Prius are both controlled 100\% electronically.
Changing to neutral or turning off the car won't happen unless the car's software agrees with your intentions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999068</id>
	<title>You tube it</title>
	<author>rgviza</author>
	<datestamp>1265139360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why doesn't Woz get his damn iPhone out and video the car exhibiting the behavior. If he describes what he's doing in the video to reproduce the bug and posts it to YouTube, Toyota will have a hard time denying it.</p><p>I'm just sayin...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does n't Woz get his damn iPhone out and video the car exhibiting the behavior .
If he describes what he 's doing in the video to reproduce the bug and posts it to YouTube , Toyota will have a hard time denying it.I 'm just sayin.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why doesn't Woz get his damn iPhone out and video the car exhibiting the behavior.
If he describes what he's doing in the video to reproduce the bug and posts it to YouTube, Toyota will have a hard time denying it.I'm just sayin...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002966</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>labnet</author>
	<datestamp>1265114820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to.</p></div><p>OK, I'll bite because you are talking bullshit.<br>Every corporate executive I have met cares about risk. They have families, friends, and are part of community; in otherwords they are people like you and I.<br>They are also much more paranoid than you may think about risk &amp; safety.</p><p>Risk = Likelyhood of occuring x Severity of Incident.<br>Risk is impossible to eliminate and becomes exponentially expensive to reduce past what I call the practical point.</p><p>Society demands an 'acceptable' level of risk for an 'acceptable' monetary cost.<br>This is what engineers design for and ultimatley what courts reinforce.</p><p>That bar rises higher every year as technology improves and legislation/standards are created to enforce/reinforce our understanding of risk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to.OK , I 'll bite because you are talking bullshit.Every corporate executive I have met cares about risk .
They have families , friends , and are part of community ; in otherwords they are people like you and I.They are also much more paranoid than you may think about risk &amp; safety.Risk = Likelyhood of occuring x Severity of Incident.Risk is impossible to eliminate and becomes exponentially expensive to reduce past what I call the practical point.Society demands an 'acceptable ' level of risk for an 'acceptable ' monetary cost.This is what engineers design for and ultimatley what courts reinforce.That bar rises higher every year as technology improves and legislation/standards are created to enforce/reinforce our understanding of risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to.OK, I'll bite because you are talking bullshit.Every corporate executive I have met cares about risk.
They have families, friends, and are part of community; in otherwords they are people like you and I.They are also much more paranoid than you may think about risk &amp; safety.Risk = Likelyhood of occuring x Severity of Incident.Risk is impossible to eliminate and becomes exponentially expensive to reduce past what I call the practical point.Society demands an 'acceptable' level of risk for an 'acceptable' monetary cost.This is what engineers design for and ultimatley what courts reinforce.That bar rises higher every year as technology improves and legislation/standards are created to enforce/reinforce our understanding of risk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999924</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265142840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is still an unacceptable software problem. Sensors go bad. It should be an anticipated and tested for problem, if you are getting impossible input from a sensor then you need to have a sane failure mode instead of something dangerous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is still an unacceptable software problem .
Sensors go bad .
It should be an anticipated and tested for problem , if you are getting impossible input from a sensor then you need to have a sane failure mode instead of something dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is still an unacceptable software problem.
Sensors go bad.
It should be an anticipated and tested for problem, if you are getting impossible input from a sensor then you need to have a sane failure mode instead of something dangerous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997408</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>thebian</author>
	<datestamp>1265133540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sad thing about office politics is that the people who are best at it often rise to the highest levels.</p><p>The trouble is inherent in the bureaucracy of big organizations. The company, government agency or whatever, is too big to be managed by one person, so the big boss has to rely on little bosses, and the little bosses who sound the best at meetings <em>always</em> win. </p><p>You, the little guy who hasn't risen to your level of incompetence cannot be caught making your little boss, or some other little boss on her way up, bad. They'll get even with you, and you'll never know how.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sad thing about office politics is that the people who are best at it often rise to the highest levels.The trouble is inherent in the bureaucracy of big organizations .
The company , government agency or whatever , is too big to be managed by one person , so the big boss has to rely on little bosses , and the little bosses who sound the best at meetings always win .
You , the little guy who has n't risen to your level of incompetence can not be caught making your little boss , or some other little boss on her way up , bad .
They 'll get even with you , and you 'll never know how .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sad thing about office politics is that the people who are best at it often rise to the highest levels.The trouble is inherent in the bureaucracy of big organizations.
The company, government agency or whatever, is too big to be managed by one person, so the big boss has to rely on little bosses, and the little bosses who sound the best at meetings always win.
You, the little guy who hasn't risen to your level of incompetence cannot be caught making your little boss, or some other little boss on her way up, bad.
They'll get even with you, and you'll never know how.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001472</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could you explain exactly ~how~ the transmission linkage would resist being put into neutral?  I call shenanagans on this.  There is no feedback from an automatic transmission to the shift linkage.  If you're going to make a point please try to do so without including made up "facts".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could you explain exactly ~ how ~ the transmission linkage would resist being put into neutral ?
I call shenanagans on this .
There is no feedback from an automatic transmission to the shift linkage .
If you 're going to make a point please try to do so without including made up " facts " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could you explain exactly ~how~ the transmission linkage would resist being put into neutral?
I call shenanagans on this.
There is no feedback from an automatic transmission to the shift linkage.
If you're going to make a point please try to do so without including made up "facts".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000410</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Belial6</author>
	<datestamp>1265101740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>What I want to know is why the article doesn't say what the problem is.  If it is reproducible, what conditions will reproduce it.  We are supposidly talking about a life and death situation here, and either Woz is letting his ego get in the way so that he can be the 'expert', the reporter as well as their editor is incompetent because they left out perhaps the single most important information of the story, or both.<br> <br>

No doubt if 50,000 people were calling and saying that they could reproduce the problem, including the CEO's teenage kid/nephew/neighbor, there would be a faster response than that given to 1.  Even if that is the great and powerful Woz.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I want to know is why the article does n't say what the problem is .
If it is reproducible , what conditions will reproduce it .
We are supposidly talking about a life and death situation here , and either Woz is letting his ego get in the way so that he can be the 'expert ' , the reporter as well as their editor is incompetent because they left out perhaps the single most important information of the story , or both .
No doubt if 50,000 people were calling and saying that they could reproduce the problem , including the CEO 's teenage kid/nephew/neighbor , there would be a faster response than that given to 1 .
Even if that is the great and powerful Woz .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I want to know is why the article doesn't say what the problem is.
If it is reproducible, what conditions will reproduce it.
We are supposidly talking about a life and death situation here, and either Woz is letting his ego get in the way so that he can be the 'expert', the reporter as well as their editor is incompetent because they left out perhaps the single most important information of the story, or both.
No doubt if 50,000 people were calling and saying that they could reproduce the problem, including the CEO's teenage kid/nephew/neighbor, there would be a faster response than that given to 1.
Even if that is the great and powerful Woz.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995870</id>
	<title>wild but only under certain conditions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like Woz's stint on "Dancing with the Stars."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like Woz 's stint on " Dancing with the Stars .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like Woz's stint on "Dancing with the Stars.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</id>
	<title>Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>GPLDAN</author>
	<datestamp>1265128320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks, finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars. <br> <br>
However, they have been frontrunning this story and trying to lead the charge to push it up to the MSM.<br> <br>
Woz is Woz, he needs no introduction on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. If he calls bullshit on software design, it will get attention. Worse off, as Jalopnik shows on the bit on the Today show appearance by the Toyota CEO - they seem willing and ready to lie through their teeth about what was known, when it was known, and what their responses to the NTSB have been. Matt Lauer is sitting there with a copy of the NTSB report on his lap, saying they knew humidity was causing pedals to stick in 2007, and there is the Toyota CEO lying his ass off, saying only in October of 2009 was it brought to their attention. Toyota is recalling a shitload of Camrys and Corollas, and now Woz drops this bomb about Prius software design on them. It's time for the Hedge fund managers to make more money and short the hell out of Toyota.<br> <br>
Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop. In the fatality cases, if the driver had forced the car into neutral (the linkage would have resisted, you would have needed to really muscle it) they could have saved themselves. Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle.<br> <br>
This is PR nightmare time for Toyota. It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks , finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars .
However , they have been frontrunning this story and trying to lead the charge to push it up to the MSM .
Woz is Woz , he needs no introduction on / .
If he calls bullshit on software design , it will get attention .
Worse off , as Jalopnik shows on the bit on the Today show appearance by the Toyota CEO - they seem willing and ready to lie through their teeth about what was known , when it was known , and what their responses to the NTSB have been .
Matt Lauer is sitting there with a copy of the NTSB report on his lap , saying they knew humidity was causing pedals to stick in 2007 , and there is the Toyota CEO lying his ass off , saying only in October of 2009 was it brought to their attention .
Toyota is recalling a shitload of Camrys and Corollas , and now Woz drops this bomb about Prius software design on them .
It 's time for the Hedge fund managers to make more money and short the hell out of Toyota .
Note , in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through , indicating that once these cars took off on people , they COULD NOT stop .
In the fatality cases , if the driver had forced the car into neutral ( the linkage would have resisted , you would have needed to really muscle it ) they could have saved themselves .
Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle .
This is PR nightmare time for Toyota .
It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no great love for Wert and the Jalopniks, finding them to consistently side with the GOP on social issues and sidestep into political discourse way too much for a blog on cars.
However, they have been frontrunning this story and trying to lead the charge to push it up to the MSM.
Woz is Woz, he needs no introduction on /.
If he calls bullshit on software design, it will get attention.
Worse off, as Jalopnik shows on the bit on the Today show appearance by the Toyota CEO - they seem willing and ready to lie through their teeth about what was known, when it was known, and what their responses to the NTSB have been.
Matt Lauer is sitting there with a copy of the NTSB report on his lap, saying they knew humidity was causing pedals to stick in 2007, and there is the Toyota CEO lying his ass off, saying only in October of 2009 was it brought to their attention.
Toyota is recalling a shitload of Camrys and Corollas, and now Woz drops this bomb about Prius software design on them.
It's time for the Hedge fund managers to make more money and short the hell out of Toyota.
Note, in NTSB reports - many of these cars have had the brake pads TOTALLY burned through, indicating that once these cars took off on people, they COULD NOT stop.
In the fatality cases, if the driver had forced the car into neutral (the linkage would have resisted, you would have needed to really muscle it) they could have saved themselves.
Instead they rode the brake into an obstacle.
This is PR nightmare time for Toyota.
It will make the Ford-Firestone debacle look like simple times.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997564</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1265134020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing, only to have somebody who doesn't know jack about programming find a bug, I have to disagree; Woz is probably right.</p></div><p>It's actually quite common. When you test your own code, your test cases will have the same constraints you were considering when writing it, so you won't likely find the corner case. It takes someone who knows nothing about the code to stumble upon that corner case input.</p><p>Similar problem for proofreading. Proofread your own writing and the same thing that caused you to make the mistake causes you to overlook it later.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing , only to have somebody who does n't know jack about programming find a bug , I have to disagree ; Woz is probably right.It 's actually quite common .
When you test your own code , your test cases will have the same constraints you were considering when writing it , so you wo n't likely find the corner case .
It takes someone who knows nothing about the code to stumble upon that corner case input.Similar problem for proofreading .
Proofread your own writing and the same thing that caused you to make the mistake causes you to overlook it later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing, only to have somebody who doesn't know jack about programming find a bug, I have to disagree; Woz is probably right.It's actually quite common.
When you test your own code, your test cases will have the same constraints you were considering when writing it, so you won't likely find the corner case.
It takes someone who knows nothing about the code to stumble upon that corner case input.Similar problem for proofreading.
Proofread your own writing and the same thing that caused you to make the mistake causes you to overlook it later.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996980</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In most cases it will be difficult to put the vehicle into neutral for the reason that it is locked out to prevent the average dunderhead from blowing up the motor or worse yet, drifting downhill on idle to conserve fuel<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P. Turning off the motor used to be the best method when the steering lock was an extra bit of a turn with a little key push to engage it but now with the steering locked on everything but start and run the best thing to do is to put the car in low and jump on the brakes while yanking on the e-brake and pointing towards something soft like a grassy hill or parked car.<br>Don't worry about hurting your car or empty ones, lawyers are cheap compared to funerals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In most cases it will be difficult to put the vehicle into neutral for the reason that it is locked out to prevent the average dunderhead from blowing up the motor or worse yet , drifting downhill on idle to conserve fuel : P. Turning off the motor used to be the best method when the steering lock was an extra bit of a turn with a little key push to engage it but now with the steering locked on everything but start and run the best thing to do is to put the car in low and jump on the brakes while yanking on the e-brake and pointing towards something soft like a grassy hill or parked car.Do n't worry about hurting your car or empty ones , lawyers are cheap compared to funerals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most cases it will be difficult to put the vehicle into neutral for the reason that it is locked out to prevent the average dunderhead from blowing up the motor or worse yet, drifting downhill on idle to conserve fuel :P. Turning off the motor used to be the best method when the steering lock was an extra bit of a turn with a little key push to engage it but now with the steering locked on everything but start and run the best thing to do is to put the car in low and jump on the brakes while yanking on the e-brake and pointing towards something soft like a grassy hill or parked car.Don't worry about hurting your car or empty ones, lawyers are cheap compared to funerals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999616</id>
	<title>Not exactly a voluntary recall</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1265141460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The New York Times reported that Toyota stopped selling their defective cars only after the NTSB "asked" them to do it.
</p><p>
That's not exactly "voluntary".  The way DOT and CPSC recalls work is that first they ask the manufacturer to do a "voluntary" recall.  If the manufacturer says no, they issue a mandatory recall notice.
</p><p>About once a decade, some manufacturer is dumb enough to let things go that far.  It means national TV coverage ("The National Transportation Safety Board today ordered the recall of all NNN model XXX cars.")  It means that, instead of a obliquely worded letter from the manufacturer, every owner gets an official letter from the Government with words like "dangerous and defective product" in big black type.  The manufacturer involved usually experiences a large, permanent drop in sales.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The New York Times reported that Toyota stopped selling their defective cars only after the NTSB " asked " them to do it .
That 's not exactly " voluntary " .
The way DOT and CPSC recalls work is that first they ask the manufacturer to do a " voluntary " recall .
If the manufacturer says no , they issue a mandatory recall notice .
About once a decade , some manufacturer is dumb enough to let things go that far .
It means national TV coverage ( " The National Transportation Safety Board today ordered the recall of all NNN model XXX cars .
" ) It means that , instead of a obliquely worded letter from the manufacturer , every owner gets an official letter from the Government with words like " dangerous and defective product " in big black type .
The manufacturer involved usually experiences a large , permanent drop in sales .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The New York Times reported that Toyota stopped selling their defective cars only after the NTSB "asked" them to do it.
That's not exactly "voluntary".
The way DOT and CPSC recalls work is that first they ask the manufacturer to do a "voluntary" recall.
If the manufacturer says no, they issue a mandatory recall notice.
About once a decade, some manufacturer is dumb enough to let things go that far.
It means national TV coverage ("The National Transportation Safety Board today ordered the recall of all NNN model XXX cars.
")  It means that, instead of a obliquely worded letter from the manufacturer, every owner gets an official letter from the Government with words like "dangerous and defective product" in big black type.
The manufacturer involved usually experiences a large, permanent drop in sales.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997664</id>
	<title>Cruise and manual transmission</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had manual-transmission cars from two different companies that had cruise-related problems.</p><p>In both cases 5th gear could occasionally slip into neutral and the cruise would not disengage, revving the engine to max.  Cruise <b>should</b> have a safety to disengage automatically when the gears change whether or not the clutch is used.</p><p>Fortunately it was only harmed the engine not the driver.</p><p>It was easy enough to press the clutch which turned off the cruise then shift back into gear and keep driving.</p><p>As to why the gear slipped, that's a separate issue</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had manual-transmission cars from two different companies that had cruise-related problems.In both cases 5th gear could occasionally slip into neutral and the cruise would not disengage , revving the engine to max .
Cruise should have a safety to disengage automatically when the gears change whether or not the clutch is used.Fortunately it was only harmed the engine not the driver.It was easy enough to press the clutch which turned off the cruise then shift back into gear and keep driving.As to why the gear slipped , that 's a separate issue</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had manual-transmission cars from two different companies that had cruise-related problems.In both cases 5th gear could occasionally slip into neutral and the cruise would not disengage, revving the engine to max.
Cruise should have a safety to disengage automatically when the gears change whether or not the clutch is used.Fortunately it was only harmed the engine not the driver.It was easy enough to press the clutch which turned off the cruise then shift back into gear and keep driving.As to why the gear slipped, that's a separate issue</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997380</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265133420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a similar problem with my Mazda pickup. It has old school accelerator pump controlled fuel system with no fuel (fool) injection. It raced on and stuck on the hills going up to Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon. I had to take it out of gear and let the engine almost explode, find a pull out and get out my can of WD40 and tools. </p><p> The point being that old school driving sense is lacking with todays gizmo oriented drivers and if something fundamental goes wrong they are at a total loss and do not fall back on "what to do if" common sense. They look for a more complicated and usually ineffective solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a similar problem with my Mazda pickup .
It has old school accelerator pump controlled fuel system with no fuel ( fool ) injection .
It raced on and stuck on the hills going up to Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon .
I had to take it out of gear and let the engine almost explode , find a pull out and get out my can of WD40 and tools .
The point being that old school driving sense is lacking with todays gizmo oriented drivers and if something fundamental goes wrong they are at a total loss and do not fall back on " what to do if " common sense .
They look for a more complicated and usually ineffective solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a similar problem with my Mazda pickup.
It has old school accelerator pump controlled fuel system with no fuel (fool) injection.
It raced on and stuck on the hills going up to Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon.
I had to take it out of gear and let the engine almost explode, find a pull out and get out my can of WD40 and tools.
The point being that old school driving sense is lacking with todays gizmo oriented drivers and if something fundamental goes wrong they are at a total loss and do not fall back on "what to do if" common sense.
They look for a more complicated and usually ineffective solution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996830</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>tixxit</author>
	<datestamp>1265131620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Car companies sell cars to people who buy them. Of course they do cost analysis. If they fixed all problems that had the slightest chance of hurting people, then their cars would cost a lot more. When you buy a Corolla over a Lexus IS, you yourself are making a choice of Money vs. Safety. The Lexus IS is certainly safer, but it also costs significantly more. You are trading off safety for cost savings. Why do you suddenly get bent out of shape when a corporation makes the exact same calculation? It's the world we live in. Toyota tries to make a car as safe as possible within a certain cost. If they were to fix all problems, the car would cost more and you would not buy it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Car companies sell cars to people who buy them .
Of course they do cost analysis .
If they fixed all problems that had the slightest chance of hurting people , then their cars would cost a lot more .
When you buy a Corolla over a Lexus IS , you yourself are making a choice of Money vs. Safety. The Lexus IS is certainly safer , but it also costs significantly more .
You are trading off safety for cost savings .
Why do you suddenly get bent out of shape when a corporation makes the exact same calculation ?
It 's the world we live in .
Toyota tries to make a car as safe as possible within a certain cost .
If they were to fix all problems , the car would cost more and you would not buy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Car companies sell cars to people who buy them.
Of course they do cost analysis.
If they fixed all problems that had the slightest chance of hurting people, then their cars would cost a lot more.
When you buy a Corolla over a Lexus IS, you yourself are making a choice of Money vs. Safety. The Lexus IS is certainly safer, but it also costs significantly more.
You are trading off safety for cost savings.
Why do you suddenly get bent out of shape when a corporation makes the exact same calculation?
It's the world we live in.
Toyota tries to make a car as safe as possible within a certain cost.
If they were to fix all problems, the car would cost more and you would not buy it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997074</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1265132460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE. Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas.</p></div> </blockquote><p>But what if both your gear shift and iginition push button are software controlled, and the software is the problem?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE .
Yes , you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas .
But what if both your gear shift and iginition push button are software controlled , and the software is the problem ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE.
Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas.
But what if both your gear shift and iginition push button are software controlled, and the software is the problem?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997174</id>
	<title>Re:OP, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>meatplow</author>
	<datestamp>1265132760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is not the case with 'some' of the current cars.  I have done this plenty in an 08 Audi A6 - Auto Trans.  <br>The only effect of dropping down 1 gear, is dropping down 1 gear. <br> Cruise Control is unchanged.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not the case with 'some ' of the current cars .
I have done this plenty in an 08 Audi A6 - Auto Trans .
The only effect of dropping down 1 gear , is dropping down 1 gear .
Cruise Control is unchanged .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not the case with 'some' of the current cars.
I have done this plenty in an 08 Audi A6 - Auto Trans.
The only effect of dropping down 1 gear, is dropping down 1 gear.
Cruise Control is unchanged.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31002064</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Jakkor</author>
	<datestamp>1265109840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I drove an early 90's BMW 3 series back in the day which had a speed control system that used a lever on the bottom right side of steering wheel.  Once cruise was activated a click forward on the lever accelerated 1mph and a click down the opposite.  One day when messing with this feature I noticed that if I held the lever forward my car would just accelerate (at a pretty high rate I might add), as well as making the petal hit the floor without touching it, just like when using regular cruise control and your car is going up a hill etc you can feel the petal move. Yet I was easily able to disengage this sudden acceleration by either letting go of the lever or hitting the break. I eventually starting using this as a lazy driving technique.


My thought is maybe the WOZ is mistaking this "Scary" acceleration as just a feature ( I have not researched this), like the coast function which slows you down.  Also the system could be queuing his successive "Nudges" as 10 or so MPH and applying them at once.  It does take some time for a car to go from 80 to 81 depending on the car, but having a Prius I do not see it getting from 80 to 81 in an instant...


I understand this could be a scary situation if you have never experienced it but if he is easily able to hit the brake, which would stop acceleration effectively cutting off cruise, maybe he is mistaking this "bug" for a "feature".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I drove an early 90 's BMW 3 series back in the day which had a speed control system that used a lever on the bottom right side of steering wheel .
Once cruise was activated a click forward on the lever accelerated 1mph and a click down the opposite .
One day when messing with this feature I noticed that if I held the lever forward my car would just accelerate ( at a pretty high rate I might add ) , as well as making the petal hit the floor without touching it , just like when using regular cruise control and your car is going up a hill etc you can feel the petal move .
Yet I was easily able to disengage this sudden acceleration by either letting go of the lever or hitting the break .
I eventually starting using this as a lazy driving technique .
My thought is maybe the WOZ is mistaking this " Scary " acceleration as just a feature ( I have not researched this ) , like the coast function which slows you down .
Also the system could be queuing his successive " Nudges " as 10 or so MPH and applying them at once .
It does take some time for a car to go from 80 to 81 depending on the car , but having a Prius I do not see it getting from 80 to 81 in an instant.. . I understand this could be a scary situation if you have never experienced it but if he is easily able to hit the brake , which would stop acceleration effectively cutting off cruise , maybe he is mistaking this " bug " for a " feature " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I drove an early 90's BMW 3 series back in the day which had a speed control system that used a lever on the bottom right side of steering wheel.
Once cruise was activated a click forward on the lever accelerated 1mph and a click down the opposite.
One day when messing with this feature I noticed that if I held the lever forward my car would just accelerate (at a pretty high rate I might add), as well as making the petal hit the floor without touching it, just like when using regular cruise control and your car is going up a hill etc you can feel the petal move.
Yet I was easily able to disengage this sudden acceleration by either letting go of the lever or hitting the break.
I eventually starting using this as a lazy driving technique.
My thought is maybe the WOZ is mistaking this "Scary" acceleration as just a feature ( I have not researched this), like the coast function which slows you down.
Also the system could be queuing his successive "Nudges" as 10 or so MPH and applying them at once.
It does take some time for a car to go from 80 to 81 depending on the car, but having a Prius I do not see it getting from 80 to 81 in an instant...


I understand this could be a scary situation if you have never experienced it but if he is easily able to hit the brake, which would stop acceleration effectively cutting off cruise, maybe he is mistaking this "bug" for a "feature".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996114</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving doesn't do anything. Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that. In the case of the push button start Lexus you have to hold the button down for like 3-5 seconds to force a shutdown while driving.</p><p>Also, the automatic is a weird looking gated one similiar to this http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200605/2006-lexus-is350-27\_460x0w.jpg</p><p>There are two nutrals, one is clearly labeled and one is not. The problem is that the clearly labeled one is locked out while driving and the other one isn't clearly labeled... Combine that with a driver unfamiliar with his vehicle (this was a rental) and you have a recipe for disaster in a panic situation.</p><p>This topic has been thoroughly covered on the Internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving does n't do anything .
Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that .
In the case of the push button start Lexus you have to hold the button down for like 3-5 seconds to force a shutdown while driving.Also , the automatic is a weird looking gated one similiar to this http : //pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200605/2006-lexus-is350-27 \ _460x0w.jpgThere are two nutrals , one is clearly labeled and one is not .
The problem is that the clearly labeled one is locked out while driving and the other one is n't clearly labeled... Combine that with a driver unfamiliar with his vehicle ( this was a rental ) and you have a recipe for disaster in a panic situation.This topic has been thoroughly covered on the Internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vehicle was push button and pushing the button while driving doesn't do anything.
Computer users may be inclined to hold the power button down for a few seconds but a computer illiterate person may not think of that.
In the case of the push button start Lexus you have to hold the button down for like 3-5 seconds to force a shutdown while driving.Also, the automatic is a weird looking gated one similiar to this http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200605/2006-lexus-is350-27\_460x0w.jpgThere are two nutrals, one is clearly labeled and one is not.
The problem is that the clearly labeled one is locked out while driving and the other one isn't clearly labeled... Combine that with a driver unfamiliar with his vehicle (this was a rental) and you have a recipe for disaster in a panic situation.This topic has been thoroughly covered on the Internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996080</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and <b>TURN OFF THE ENGINE</b>.</i></p></div><p> 
Many of the cars affected have push-button ignitions, and thus have no keys to turn. You have to press and hold the button for three seconds.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>More importantly , if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open , for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE .
Many of the cars affected have push-button ignitions , and thus have no keys to turn .
You have to press and hold the button for three seconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE.
Many of the cars affected have push-button ignitions, and thus have no keys to turn.
You have to press and hold the button for three seconds.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996546</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Xoltri</author>
	<datestamp>1265130600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTA:<p><div class="quote"><p>Some owners of recalled Toyotas are now saying they are afraid to drive them. &ldquo;I live only a half mile from the office and I drive there,&rdquo; said Elaine Byrnes, a Camry owner in Los Angeles. &ldquo;If I had to go farther, I wouldn&rsquo;t consider it.&rdquo;</p></div><p>
If she doesn't have mobility issues, driving a half mile is ridiculous.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTA : Some owners of recalled Toyotas are now saying they are afraid to drive them .
   I live only a half mile from the office and I drive there ,    said Elaine Byrnes , a Camry owner in Los Angeles .
   If I had to go farther , I wouldn    t consider it.    If she does n't have mobility issues , driving a half mile is ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTA:Some owners of recalled Toyotas are now saying they are afraid to drive them.
“I live only a half mile from the office and I drive there,” said Elaine Byrnes, a Camry owner in Los Angeles.
“If I had to go farther, I wouldn’t consider it.”
If she doesn't have mobility issues, driving a half mile is ridiculous.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996770</id>
	<title>Pro American propaganda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love my Toyota, and am sick of all the Toyota bashing.  I didn't know that Slashdot was a tool of the propaganda industry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love my Toyota , and am sick of all the Toyota bashing .
I did n't know that Slashdot was a tool of the propaganda industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love my Toyota, and am sick of all the Toyota bashing.
I didn't know that Slashdot was a tool of the propaganda industry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997184</id>
	<title>Braking tests on non-hung cars may be irrelevant</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the tests that say brakes do stop a car with full throttle are in cases where the fly by wire electronics causes loss of control. Some reports (e.g., the police officer) were by folks who could not stop the car, and would certainly have hit brakes.<br>In an electronic control system, a bug could make brakes fail to work. If some other models have mechanical brake controls this would not apply.Sounds like some have electronics doing this. (One might add sudden uncommanded acceleration can be a startling event and cause problems by itself. If the driver is using cruise control, too, his foot might not be totally handy to the brake.)</p><p>What has been reported does not sound like a sticking pedal problem. That someone can't reproduce an electronic glitch in a lab does not mean none occurs, though. Anyone recall the stories about the F-111 in Vietnam where the controller would sometimes halt, leaving the pilot with no controls? Most times that happened 50 feet over trees the pilot did not survive. They tried to find that in labs too....took a very long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the tests that say brakes do stop a car with full throttle are in cases where the fly by wire electronics causes loss of control .
Some reports ( e.g. , the police officer ) were by folks who could not stop the car , and would certainly have hit brakes.In an electronic control system , a bug could make brakes fail to work .
If some other models have mechanical brake controls this would not apply.Sounds like some have electronics doing this .
( One might add sudden uncommanded acceleration can be a startling event and cause problems by itself .
If the driver is using cruise control , too , his foot might not be totally handy to the brake .
) What has been reported does not sound like a sticking pedal problem .
That someone ca n't reproduce an electronic glitch in a lab does not mean none occurs , though .
Anyone recall the stories about the F-111 in Vietnam where the controller would sometimes halt , leaving the pilot with no controls ?
Most times that happened 50 feet over trees the pilot did not survive .
They tried to find that in labs too....took a very long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the tests that say brakes do stop a car with full throttle are in cases where the fly by wire electronics causes loss of control.
Some reports (e.g., the police officer) were by folks who could not stop the car, and would certainly have hit brakes.In an electronic control system, a bug could make brakes fail to work.
If some other models have mechanical brake controls this would not apply.Sounds like some have electronics doing this.
(One might add sudden uncommanded acceleration can be a startling event and cause problems by itself.
If the driver is using cruise control, too, his foot might not be totally handy to the brake.
)What has been reported does not sound like a sticking pedal problem.
That someone can't reproduce an electronic glitch in a lab does not mean none occurs, though.
Anyone recall the stories about the F-111 in Vietnam where the controller would sometimes halt, leaving the pilot with no controls?
Most times that happened 50 feet over trees the pilot did not survive.
They tried to find that in labs too....took a very long time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998906</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265138700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The cop accident was a result of a stuck floormat, per the police and NHTSA. Had absolutely nothing to do with cruise control.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The cop accident was a result of a stuck floormat , per the police and NHTSA .
Had absolutely nothing to do with cruise control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cop accident was a result of a stuck floormat, per the police and NHTSA.
Had absolutely nothing to do with cruise control.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995706</id>
	<title>I don't believe it</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1265127960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again &mdash; safely.'</p></div> </blockquote><p>Um, fact check.  134hp, that's engine + synergy drive. 0-60 is about eight weeks (well, 9.8 seconds but what's the difference?)). Under no circumstance whatsoever short of driving off a cliff will a stock Prius accelerate wildly.  Sorry Woz!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>(Uh, I'm kidding. Obviously.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control .
And I can repeat it over and over and over again    safely .
' Um , fact check .
134hp , that 's engine + synergy drive .
0-60 is about eight weeks ( well , 9.8 seconds but what 's the difference ? ) ) .
Under no circumstance whatsoever short of driving off a cliff will a stock Prius accelerate wildly .
Sorry Woz !
; ) ( Uh , I 'm kidding .
Obviously. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control.
And I can repeat it over and over and over again — safely.
' Um, fact check.
134hp, that's engine + synergy drive.
0-60 is about eight weeks (well, 9.8 seconds but what's the difference?)).
Under no circumstance whatsoever short of driving off a cliff will a stock Prius accelerate wildly.
Sorry Woz!
;)(Uh, I'm kidding.
Obviously.)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999266</id>
	<title>Unwanted acceleration?</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1265140080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its a Prius. Toyota still hasn't solved the "wanted acceleration" problem yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a Prius .
Toyota still has n't solved the " wanted acceleration " problem yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a Prius.
Toyota still hasn't solved the "wanted acceleration" problem yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999538</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>adolf</author>
	<datestamp>1265141160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reading Woz's post makes something obvious to me:  This problem would be amplified in the event of a bad brake light switch.  One must wonder, then, if that is part of the severity of the issue out in the wild.</p><p>(And, yes, they do fail sometimes.  I had to replace the switch on my old BMW a few years ago.  That car is clever enough to tell you that the switch has failed, but most cars aren't.  So, folks will generally drive around with intermittent or no brake lights until someone else tells them about it.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reading Woz 's post makes something obvious to me : This problem would be amplified in the event of a bad brake light switch .
One must wonder , then , if that is part of the severity of the issue out in the wild .
( And , yes , they do fail sometimes .
I had to replace the switch on my old BMW a few years ago .
That car is clever enough to tell you that the switch has failed , but most cars are n't .
So , folks will generally drive around with intermittent or no brake lights until someone else tells them about it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reading Woz's post makes something obvious to me:  This problem would be amplified in the event of a bad brake light switch.
One must wonder, then, if that is part of the severity of the issue out in the wild.
(And, yes, they do fail sometimes.
I had to replace the switch on my old BMW a few years ago.
That car is clever enough to tell you that the switch has failed, but most cars aren't.
So, folks will generally drive around with intermittent or no brake lights until someone else tells them about it.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999368</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265140440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that makes it OK?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that makes it OK ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that makes it OK?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001276</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Skuld-Chan</author>
	<datestamp>1265105640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>90\% of solving any bug is having a reproducible test case - especially one you can use in your own companies lab on your own time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>90 \ % of solving any bug is having a reproducible test case - especially one you can use in your own companies lab on your own time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>90\% of solving any bug is having a reproducible test case - especially one you can use in your own companies lab on your own time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996190</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1265129400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With an automatic Transmission and Cruise Control - and today's computers - that should not be an issue.</p><p>This is a 2010 Toyota Prius - as in, made VERY recently. How is it their auto transmission and cruise control <b>can't</b> keep a steady speed despite hills? I'd want some money back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With an automatic Transmission and Cruise Control - and today 's computers - that should not be an issue.This is a 2010 Toyota Prius - as in , made VERY recently .
How is it their auto transmission and cruise control ca n't keep a steady speed despite hills ?
I 'd want some money back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With an automatic Transmission and Cruise Control - and today's computers - that should not be an issue.This is a 2010 Toyota Prius - as in, made VERY recently.
How is it their auto transmission and cruise control can't keep a steady speed despite hills?
I'd want some money back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996120</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't honestly expect a CEO to know anything about anything. They should be the last people in front of the camera, because they've been the worst prepped and barely know what's actually going on in their own company.</p><p>(Maybe if they had been more aware of issues like this at lower levels, problems wouldn't have gotten this bad.)</p><p>The only people who should be talking are the engineers who discovered and are correcting the problem, or some sort of press secretary who knows what's going on well enough to brief the populace.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't honestly expect a CEO to know anything about anything .
They should be the last people in front of the camera , because they 've been the worst prepped and barely know what 's actually going on in their own company .
( Maybe if they had been more aware of issues like this at lower levels , problems would n't have gotten this bad .
) The only people who should be talking are the engineers who discovered and are correcting the problem , or some sort of press secretary who knows what 's going on well enough to brief the populace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't honestly expect a CEO to know anything about anything.
They should be the last people in front of the camera, because they've been the worst prepped and barely know what's actually going on in their own company.
(Maybe if they had been more aware of issues like this at lower levels, problems wouldn't have gotten this bad.
)The only people who should be talking are the engineers who discovered and are correcting the problem, or some sort of press secretary who knows what's going on well enough to brief the populace.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996302</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>digitalPhant0m</author>
	<datestamp>1265129820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's funny, cuase I always wondered why people bought the UGLIEST hybrid they could find.</p><p>I mean, c'mon I know you're a Hippster trying to be different by being the same, but the car is ugly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's funny , cuase I always wondered why people bought the UGLIEST hybrid they could find.I mean , c'mon I know you 're a Hippster trying to be different by being the same , but the car is ugly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's funny, cuase I always wondered why people bought the UGLIEST hybrid they could find.I mean, c'mon I know you're a Hippster trying to be different by being the same, but the car is ugly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997728</id>
	<title>Certification?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not familiar with car software, but I know that the certification process for avionics is pretty severe.  I about shot myself in the face doing Level A certification of some avoinics due to how thorough it is...  I quit that job after a few months because I realized I was filing TPS reports and was coveting my neighbor's red swingline.</p><p>My questions are 2 fold.  First, does the auto industry have this kind of software certification process and second, for others who have endured the certification, does it produce the safety gains it is supposed to?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not familiar with car software , but I know that the certification process for avionics is pretty severe .
I about shot myself in the face doing Level A certification of some avoinics due to how thorough it is... I quit that job after a few months because I realized I was filing TPS reports and was coveting my neighbor 's red swingline.My questions are 2 fold .
First , does the auto industry have this kind of software certification process and second , for others who have endured the certification , does it produce the safety gains it is supposed to ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not familiar with car software, but I know that the certification process for avionics is pretty severe.
I about shot myself in the face doing Level A certification of some avoinics due to how thorough it is...  I quit that job after a few months because I realized I was filing TPS reports and was coveting my neighbor's red swingline.My questions are 2 fold.
First, does the auto industry have this kind of software certification process and second, for others who have endured the certification, does it produce the safety gains it is supposed to?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996712</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>SpyderVR4</author>
	<datestamp>1265131200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess it is too much to ask to just tap on the brake pedal to turn off the cruise control if the cruise control does something unexpected.  Yes, it is a bug.  Yes, Toyota needs to fix it.

Not so sure cruise control is such a great idea at 80+ mph anyways if a driver is concerned about safety.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess it is too much to ask to just tap on the brake pedal to turn off the cruise control if the cruise control does something unexpected .
Yes , it is a bug .
Yes , Toyota needs to fix it .
Not so sure cruise control is such a great idea at 80 + mph anyways if a driver is concerned about safety .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess it is too much to ask to just tap on the brake pedal to turn off the cruise control if the cruise control does something unexpected.
Yes, it is a bug.
Yes, Toyota needs to fix it.
Not so sure cruise control is such a great idea at 80+ mph anyways if a driver is concerned about safety.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996576</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Herschel Cohen</author>
	<datestamp>1265130720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if there is not key or readily accessible ignition switch?  The article I read in the NYT cited a CA state trooper with a Toyota rental that only had a push button starter.  Thus, your suggestion is not a fully valid solution to a problem with an unpredictable onset with perhaps too limited a time to attempt solutions.  By the way all in the car were killed when they had a collision at a intersection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if there is not key or readily accessible ignition switch ?
The article I read in the NYT cited a CA state trooper with a Toyota rental that only had a push button starter .
Thus , your suggestion is not a fully valid solution to a problem with an unpredictable onset with perhaps too limited a time to attempt solutions .
By the way all in the car were killed when they had a collision at a intersection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if there is not key or readily accessible ignition switch?
The article I read in the NYT cited a CA state trooper with a Toyota rental that only had a push button starter.
Thus, your suggestion is not a fully valid solution to a problem with an unpredictable onset with perhaps too limited a time to attempt solutions.
By the way all in the car were killed when they had a collision at a intersection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996392</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>TheKidWho</author>
	<datestamp>1265130120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's ok, they'll just issue a critical safety patch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's ok , they 'll just issue a critical safety patch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's ok, they'll just issue a critical safety patch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997032</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.</p></div><p>Most often the troubleshooter is simply too close to the problem.  You are describing logical troubleshooting of how the system actually works, they are working from the perspective of how it is supposed to work.  The great engineers know how to think like idiots.  Great engineers also recognize competence no matter the source.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people just do n't like to think logically and finely.Most often the troubleshooter is simply too close to the problem .
You are describing logical troubleshooting of how the system actually works , they are working from the perspective of how it is supposed to work .
The great engineers know how to think like idiots .
Great engineers also recognize competence no matter the source .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Most people just don't like to think logically and finely.Most often the troubleshooter is simply too close to the problem.
You are describing logical troubleshooting of how the system actually works, they are working from the perspective of how it is supposed to work.
The great engineers know how to think like idiots.
Great engineers also recognize competence no matter the source.
:)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998446</id>
	<title>Re:\_Your\_ TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>chainsaw1</author>
	<datestamp>1265136900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call bullshit.  Other than some GM vehicles that use hydraulic assist and an old centripetal design from Bently, most power brakes are  vacuum assist.  This is SPECIFICALLY FOR cases where the brake needs boost and the power failed for some reason.  You can usually get ~2 pushes on the brake with full (then partial) assist before you lose power.  The brake still work, just need to push harder.</p><p>Also, turning the key to "off" does not lock the wheel.  Turning it to "Remove" locks the wheel.  There are 3 positions for the key (plus starter).</p><p>Last (and less probable), depending on the car the acceleration of the engine may prevent the transmission from shifting if it if it has a manual connect or is electronically connected and the servo motor doesn't have the umph to shift in emergency situations.  Also, if your ATF is overheating and boiling out the dipstick you may not have enough pressure to shift the tranny anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call bullshit .
Other than some GM vehicles that use hydraulic assist and an old centripetal design from Bently , most power brakes are vacuum assist .
This is SPECIFICALLY FOR cases where the brake needs boost and the power failed for some reason .
You can usually get ~ 2 pushes on the brake with full ( then partial ) assist before you lose power .
The brake still work , just need to push harder.Also , turning the key to " off " does not lock the wheel .
Turning it to " Remove " locks the wheel .
There are 3 positions for the key ( plus starter ) .Last ( and less probable ) , depending on the car the acceleration of the engine may prevent the transmission from shifting if it if it has a manual connect or is electronically connected and the servo motor does n't have the umph to shift in emergency situations .
Also , if your ATF is overheating and boiling out the dipstick you may not have enough pressure to shift the tranny anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call bullshit.
Other than some GM vehicles that use hydraulic assist and an old centripetal design from Bently, most power brakes are  vacuum assist.
This is SPECIFICALLY FOR cases where the brake needs boost and the power failed for some reason.
You can usually get ~2 pushes on the brake with full (then partial) assist before you lose power.
The brake still work, just need to push harder.Also, turning the key to "off" does not lock the wheel.
Turning it to "Remove" locks the wheel.
There are 3 positions for the key (plus starter).Last (and less probable), depending on the car the acceleration of the engine may prevent the transmission from shifting if it if it has a manual connect or is electronically connected and the servo motor doesn't have the umph to shift in emergency situations.
Also, if your ATF is overheating and boiling out the dipstick you may not have enough pressure to shift the tranny anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998528</id>
	<title>Re:Safely. noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>blair1q</author>
	<datestamp>1265137140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I drive a Prius.  It's a confusing enough vehicle when it's operating correctly.  Throw in an unanticipated control response with a frightening haptic profile, and at least a few people are going to have trouble thinking beyond manipulating the last thing they frobbed.</p><p>The vehicle needs two things here, at least:</p><p>1.  A fix to the cruise system that ensures there's no possibility of unexpected behavior (yes, with proper software design it's possible; I do that for a living).</p><p>2.  A kill switch, such as that found on every(?) motorcycle made in the past N decades.  Separate from the ignition switch (which used to be a kick-start lever) and the key switch, it's got a consistent and obvious location, color, and purpose.  And you think it's an idiot-knob, until you need it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I drive a Prius .
It 's a confusing enough vehicle when it 's operating correctly .
Throw in an unanticipated control response with a frightening haptic profile , and at least a few people are going to have trouble thinking beyond manipulating the last thing they frobbed.The vehicle needs two things here , at least : 1 .
A fix to the cruise system that ensures there 's no possibility of unexpected behavior ( yes , with proper software design it 's possible ; I do that for a living ) .2 .
A kill switch , such as that found on every ( ?
) motorcycle made in the past N decades .
Separate from the ignition switch ( which used to be a kick-start lever ) and the key switch , it 's got a consistent and obvious location , color , and purpose .
And you think it 's an idiot-knob , until you need it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I drive a Prius.
It's a confusing enough vehicle when it's operating correctly.
Throw in an unanticipated control response with a frightening haptic profile, and at least a few people are going to have trouble thinking beyond manipulating the last thing they frobbed.The vehicle needs two things here, at least:1.
A fix to the cruise system that ensures there's no possibility of unexpected behavior (yes, with proper software design it's possible; I do that for a living).2.
A kill switch, such as that found on every(?
) motorcycle made in the past N decades.
Separate from the ignition switch (which used to be a kick-start lever) and the key switch, it's got a consistent and obvious location, color, and purpose.
And you think it's an idiot-knob, until you need it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996666</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether. Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly. Instead:</p><p>Put the car in NEUTRAL. The engine will disengage.<br>Hit the brake HARD. Do not pump.<br>Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</p></div><p>I disagree.  Most cars have a safety device which will prevent you from turning the key off to the point it will lock the steering wheel as long as it is in gear.  I would know, that safety device broke in my car and I couldn't turn the key all the way off without finding a special release switch.  Turning off the engine but keeping the key on the accessory position is a viable option if you can't shift into Neutral.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel , preventing you from steering altogether .
Whats more , you 'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly .
Instead : Put the car in NEUTRAL .
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD .
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road , and once its stopped , you can PARK it and turn off the engine.I disagree .
Most cars have a safety device which will prevent you from turning the key off to the point it will lock the steering wheel as long as it is in gear .
I would know , that safety device broke in my car and I could n't turn the key all the way off without finding a special release switch .
Turning off the engine but keeping the key on the accessory position is a viable option if you ca n't shift into Neutral .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether.
Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly.
Instead:Put the car in NEUTRAL.
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD.
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.I disagree.
Most cars have a safety device which will prevent you from turning the key off to the point it will lock the steering wheel as long as it is in gear.
I would know, that safety device broke in my car and I couldn't turn the key all the way off without finding a special release switch.
Turning off the engine but keeping the key on the accessory position is a viable option if you can't shift into Neutral.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998434</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265136900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He mentioned in his post that he does not believe you can turn off the car with the keyless option.  Supposedly, holding the button for 3 seconds turns it off.</p><p>Everything else is a bit disturbing, especially as I am looking at buying one. Guess I better wait a few months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He mentioned in his post that he does not believe you can turn off the car with the keyless option .
Supposedly , holding the button for 3 seconds turns it off.Everything else is a bit disturbing , especially as I am looking at buying one .
Guess I better wait a few months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He mentioned in his post that he does not believe you can turn off the car with the keyless option.
Supposedly, holding the button for 3 seconds turns it off.Everything else is a bit disturbing, especially as I am looking at buying one.
Guess I better wait a few months.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31009622</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1264952760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know better</p></div><p>Sometimes it goes beyond words. I just spent 6 weeks without ADSL internet after moving. I called twice a week to inquire about the status. At one point after escalation I talked to a guy who was actually helpful, told me he'd get a different process started and asked me to call his service next time, just to ask the drone to pass me his service.
</p><p>
On the next call the drone REFUSED to pass me the right service without going through his entire script first. Note that I was calling from a cell phone, so $$$. Then he passed me the wrong service. Then again. And again. 6 FUCKING TIMES. Those assholes do that on purpose if you even hint at knowing more than them. 45 minutes on the phone instead of 10 seconds.
</p><p>
Another time my internet connection just stopped. I call and all the guy wants to know is how many plugs I have in the house. Wrong asnwer: "I'm a network engineer and it doesn't matter how many plugs there are as it's been working fine for the last 2 years". The guy would laugh each time I gave him some diagnostics and always come back asking for how many plugs there were. After 40 minutes like this, the call gets disconnected while I'm talking. As I redial the number in rage, the connection comes back. He'd been fucking with me all this time and just had to press a button to bring the connection back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service , because they know betterSometimes it goes beyond words .
I just spent 6 weeks without ADSL internet after moving .
I called twice a week to inquire about the status .
At one point after escalation I talked to a guy who was actually helpful , told me he 'd get a different process started and asked me to call his service next time , just to ask the drone to pass me his service .
On the next call the drone REFUSED to pass me the right service without going through his entire script first .
Note that I was calling from a cell phone , so $ $ $ .
Then he passed me the wrong service .
Then again .
And again .
6 FUCKING TIMES .
Those assholes do that on purpose if you even hint at knowing more than them .
45 minutes on the phone instead of 10 seconds .
Another time my internet connection just stopped .
I call and all the guy wants to know is how many plugs I have in the house .
Wrong asnwer : " I 'm a network engineer and it does n't matter how many plugs there are as it 's been working fine for the last 2 years " .
The guy would laugh each time I gave him some diagnostics and always come back asking for how many plugs there were .
After 40 minutes like this , the call gets disconnected while I 'm talking .
As I redial the number in rage , the connection comes back .
He 'd been fucking with me all this time and just had to press a button to bring the connection back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know betterSometimes it goes beyond words.
I just spent 6 weeks without ADSL internet after moving.
I called twice a week to inquire about the status.
At one point after escalation I talked to a guy who was actually helpful, told me he'd get a different process started and asked me to call his service next time, just to ask the drone to pass me his service.
On the next call the drone REFUSED to pass me the right service without going through his entire script first.
Note that I was calling from a cell phone, so $$$.
Then he passed me the wrong service.
Then again.
And again.
6 FUCKING TIMES.
Those assholes do that on purpose if you even hint at knowing more than them.
45 minutes on the phone instead of 10 seconds.
Another time my internet connection just stopped.
I call and all the guy wants to know is how many plugs I have in the house.
Wrong asnwer: "I'm a network engineer and it doesn't matter how many plugs there are as it's been working fine for the last 2 years".
The guy would laugh each time I gave him some diagnostics and always come back asking for how many plugs there were.
After 40 minutes like this, the call gets disconnected while I'm talking.
As I redial the number in rage, the connection comes back.
He'd been fucking with me all this time and just had to press a button to bring the connection back.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31003480</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265117640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What was the part?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What was the part ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What was the part?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998352</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265136600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether. Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly. </p></div><p>You are flat out wrong. Loss of power assist (the proper term) braking or steering just makes the wheel harder to turn at slow speeds and you will need to push much harder (relatively) on the brake pedal to make them work.</p><p>The wheel will NOT lock unless the car is in park and if you can put it in park well then the problem is moot. If the car is turned off in any gear other than park the key will also not come out of the ignition, but you can turn it off and on in neutral. Turning it off in drive is probably a bad idea you will most likely destroy the transmission. It is a common misconception that you can not turn the car off in anything other than park and that therefore if the car is off the wheel is locked.</p><p>The brakes will always* work, car running or not (*=depends on there actually being a brake pad left and that the system is still capable of holding pressure i.e. the cylinder is not broken and the brake lines intact). The idea of both power steering and power brakes are to assist you with the use of those functions not completely take over them. Depending on your age, do you remember when car still came without those items? I do and I still drive a car with manual brakes and steering.</p><p>Now I'm not one to start a battle here but have you ever had to push a stalled car off the side of the road? Same concept, wheel still turns and the brakes still work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel , preventing you from steering altogether .
Whats more , you 'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly .
You are flat out wrong .
Loss of power assist ( the proper term ) braking or steering just makes the wheel harder to turn at slow speeds and you will need to push much harder ( relatively ) on the brake pedal to make them work.The wheel will NOT lock unless the car is in park and if you can put it in park well then the problem is moot .
If the car is turned off in any gear other than park the key will also not come out of the ignition , but you can turn it off and on in neutral .
Turning it off in drive is probably a bad idea you will most likely destroy the transmission .
It is a common misconception that you can not turn the car off in anything other than park and that therefore if the car is off the wheel is locked.The brakes will always * work , car running or not ( * = depends on there actually being a brake pad left and that the system is still capable of holding pressure i.e .
the cylinder is not broken and the brake lines intact ) .
The idea of both power steering and power brakes are to assist you with the use of those functions not completely take over them .
Depending on your age , do you remember when car still came without those items ?
I do and I still drive a car with manual brakes and steering.Now I 'm not one to start a battle here but have you ever had to push a stalled car off the side of the road ?
Same concept , wheel still turns and the brakes still work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether.
Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly.
You are flat out wrong.
Loss of power assist (the proper term) braking or steering just makes the wheel harder to turn at slow speeds and you will need to push much harder (relatively) on the brake pedal to make them work.The wheel will NOT lock unless the car is in park and if you can put it in park well then the problem is moot.
If the car is turned off in any gear other than park the key will also not come out of the ignition, but you can turn it off and on in neutral.
Turning it off in drive is probably a bad idea you will most likely destroy the transmission.
It is a common misconception that you can not turn the car off in anything other than park and that therefore if the car is off the wheel is locked.The brakes will always* work, car running or not (*=depends on there actually being a brake pad left and that the system is still capable of holding pressure i.e.
the cylinder is not broken and the brake lines intact).
The idea of both power steering and power brakes are to assist you with the use of those functions not completely take over them.
Depending on your age, do you remember when car still came without those items?
I do and I still drive a car with manual brakes and steering.Now I'm not one to start a battle here but have you ever had to push a stalled car off the side of the road?
Same concept, wheel still turns and the brakes still work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001388</id>
	<title>A whole new meaning...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to the term "blue screen of death"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to the term " blue screen of death " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to the term "blue screen of death"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31003914</id>
	<title>Judas Prius ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265120580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No wonder it sings:</p><p>Faster than a bullet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>terrifying scream<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No wonder it sings : Faster than a bullet ...terrifying scream ... : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No wonder it sings:Faster than a bullet ...terrifying scream ... :D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000244</id>
	<title>Sorry, got bored so hacked his system</title>
	<author>WillAffleckUW</author>
	<datestamp>1265144220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Information just wants to be free, and from my viewpoint, his electronic ignition system is a functioning computer with a lot more power than my old Timex-Sinclair or the S-100 bus computers I used to code on.</p><p>He should have locked down the protocols.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Information just wants to be free , and from my viewpoint , his electronic ignition system is a functioning computer with a lot more power than my old Timex-Sinclair or the S-100 bus computers I used to code on.He should have locked down the protocols .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Information just wants to be free, and from my viewpoint, his electronic ignition system is a functioning computer with a lot more power than my old Timex-Sinclair or the S-100 bus computers I used to code on.He should have locked down the protocols.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997622</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Rob the Bold</author>
	<datestamp>1265134200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For sake of completeness, the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars (slightly extended):</p></div><p>That does complete the instructions, but somehow I don't think unintended acceleration crashes are nearly as common in manual transmission cars, what with the clutch being right there.  Or that manual drivers need the emergency checklist nearly as much as automatics -- when going faster than desired, letting up on the gas, then clutching, then braking are pretty standard vehicle control techniques in both emergency and non-emergency situations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For sake of completeness , the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars ( slightly extended ) : That does complete the instructions , but somehow I do n't think unintended acceleration crashes are nearly as common in manual transmission cars , what with the clutch being right there .
Or that manual drivers need the emergency checklist nearly as much as automatics -- when going faster than desired , letting up on the gas , then clutching , then braking are pretty standard vehicle control techniques in both emergency and non-emergency situations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For sake of completeness, the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars (slightly extended):That does complete the instructions, but somehow I don't think unintended acceleration crashes are nearly as common in manual transmission cars, what with the clutch being right there.
Or that manual drivers need the emergency checklist nearly as much as automatics -- when going faster than desired, letting up on the gas, then clutching, then braking are pretty standard vehicle control techniques in both emergency and non-emergency situations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996504</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265130480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>First, of course get your car serviced if it's part of the official recall. That's a gimme.</p><p>More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and <b>TURN OFF THE ENGINE</b>. Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas. This didn't seem too difficult to me, but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step.</p></div><p>Hi.</p><p>The Lexus which the driver had *rented*, and was therefore unfamiliar with, has a start-stop button.  To stop the engine, you have to hold the button down for three seconds consistantly.  I'll let you do the math on how far a WOT Lexus travels in 3 seconds; not to mention the particular mindset required to calmly count to three while your entire family hurtles down the freeway.</p><p>Further, the driver, who was a certified active-duty California Highway Patrol officer and presumably knows how to drive a car, said that he had tried to put the car in neutral, to no effect.  There is rumored to be a software interrupt that stops the driver from being able to damage the engine that may or may not have affected the transmission.</p><p>Toyota is lying to everybody that there's no software problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , of course get your car serviced if it 's part of the official recall .
That 's a gim me.More importantly , if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open , for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE .
Yes , you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas .
This did n't seem too difficult to me , but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step.Hi.The Lexus which the driver had * rented * , and was therefore unfamiliar with , has a start-stop button .
To stop the engine , you have to hold the button down for three seconds consistantly .
I 'll let you do the math on how far a WOT Lexus travels in 3 seconds ; not to mention the particular mindset required to calmly count to three while your entire family hurtles down the freeway.Further , the driver , who was a certified active-duty California Highway Patrol officer and presumably knows how to drive a car , said that he had tried to put the car in neutral , to no effect .
There is rumored to be a software interrupt that stops the driver from being able to damage the engine that may or may not have affected the transmission.Toyota is lying to everybody that there 's no software problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, of course get your car serviced if it's part of the official recall.
That's a gimme.More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE.
Yes, you will lose power steering and brakes -- this is still preferable to attempting to drive the car at 100MPH until it runs out of gas.
This didn't seem too difficult to me, but apparently a State Trooper in CA decided to call 911 before taking this rather obvious step.Hi.The Lexus which the driver had *rented*, and was therefore unfamiliar with, has a start-stop button.
To stop the engine, you have to hold the button down for three seconds consistantly.
I'll let you do the math on how far a WOT Lexus travels in 3 seconds; not to mention the particular mindset required to calmly count to three while your entire family hurtles down the freeway.Further, the driver, who was a certified active-duty California Highway Patrol officer and presumably knows how to drive a car, said that he had tried to put the car in neutral, to no effect.
There is rumored to be a software interrupt that stops the driver from being able to damage the engine that may or may not have affected the transmission.Toyota is lying to everybody that there's no software problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996412</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Telecommando</author>
	<datestamp>1265130180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised Woz hasn't pulled the chips, disassembled the code, written a patch (with comments) and uploaded it to the Internet already using nothing more than a bent pocket screwdriver and a wire-tie.</p><p>I mean, let's face it, the man's a God...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised Woz has n't pulled the chips , disassembled the code , written a patch ( with comments ) and uploaded it to the Internet already using nothing more than a bent pocket screwdriver and a wire-tie.I mean , let 's face it , the man 's a God.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised Woz hasn't pulled the chips, disassembled the code, written a patch (with comments) and uploaded it to the Internet already using nothing more than a bent pocket screwdriver and a wire-tie.I mean, let's face it, the man's a God...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996822</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>mevets</author>
	<datestamp>1265131560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry to be picky, but emergency lights before brakes is a better idea.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry to be picky , but emergency lights before brakes is a better idea.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry to be picky, but emergency lights before brakes is a better idea.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995988</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Roberticus</author>
	<datestamp>1265128740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can one accelerate and not be able to maintain speed at the same time? I think you may be confused on the definition of "accelerate". </p><p>Wouldn't normally be this pedantic, but when you start a thread out by calling someone else an idiot...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can one accelerate and not be able to maintain speed at the same time ?
I think you may be confused on the definition of " accelerate " .
Would n't normally be this pedantic , but when you start a thread out by calling someone else an idiot.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can one accelerate and not be able to maintain speed at the same time?
I think you may be confused on the definition of "accelerate".
Wouldn't normally be this pedantic, but when you start a thread out by calling someone else an idiot...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997838</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>nmos</author>
	<datestamp>1265134800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINE</p></div></blockquote><p>You do realize that the car in question didn't have a key right?   It had a push button start/stop, and worse, it behaves differently when the car is parked than when it is moving.  Furthermore it was a rental so the driver probably hadn't read through the manual either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>More importantly , if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open , for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINEYou do realize that the car in question did n't have a key right ?
It had a push button start/stop , and worse , it behaves differently when the car is parked than when it is moving .
Furthermore it was a rental so the driver probably had n't read through the manual either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More importantly, if your car starts accelerating uncontrollably as if the throttle is stuck all the way open, for the love of god grab the key and TURN OFF THE ENGINEYou do realize that the car in question didn't have a key right?
It had a push button start/stop, and worse, it behaves differently when the car is parked than when it is moving.
Furthermore it was a rental so the driver probably hadn't read through the manual either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</id>
	<title>TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>dtolman</author>
	<datestamp>1265129040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether. Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly. Instead:</p><p>Put the car in NEUTRAL. The engine will disengage.<br>Hit the brake HARD. Do not pump.<br>Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel , preventing you from steering altogether .
Whats more , you 'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly .
Instead : Put the car in NEUTRAL .
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD .
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road , and once its stopped , you can PARK it and turn off the engine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether.
Whats more, you'll lose power brakes - you know - the things that will stop your car quickly.
Instead:Put the car in NEUTRAL.
The engine will disengage.Hit the brake HARD.
Do not pump.Steer the car off the road, and once its stopped, you can PARK it and turn off the engine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996062</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1265128980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing, only to have somebody who doesn't know jack about programming find a bug, I have to disagree; Woz is probably right.</p><p>Especially remembering about the Pinto gas tank; ten bucks to fix a deadly problem they kept secret. How do you know the manufacturer found nothing? I trust a corporation about as far as I can throw their headquarters building. I would not be surprised if it came out that there is a problem, the manufacturer knows about it, but it will cost ten bucks per car for a recall. They'll weigh cost of the possible lawsuits against the surety of the cost of the recall, and if the suits are cheaper, they're not going to care about people dying.</p><p>Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing , only to have somebody who does n't know jack about programming find a bug , I have to disagree ; Woz is probably right.Especially remembering about the Pinto gas tank ; ten bucks to fix a deadly problem they kept secret .
How do you know the manufacturer found nothing ?
I trust a corporation about as far as I can throw their headquarters building .
I would not be surprised if it came out that there is a problem , the manufacturer knows about it , but it will cost ten bucks per car for a recall .
They 'll weigh cost of the possible lawsuits against the surety of the cost of the recall , and if the suits are cheaper , they 're not going to care about people dying.Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has written a program I was sure was bug-free after repeated testing, only to have somebody who doesn't know jack about programming find a bug, I have to disagree; Woz is probably right.Especially remembering about the Pinto gas tank; ten bucks to fix a deadly problem they kept secret.
How do you know the manufacturer found nothing?
I trust a corporation about as far as I can throw their headquarters building.
I would not be surprised if it came out that there is a problem, the manufacturer knows about it, but it will cost ten bucks per car for a recall.
They'll weigh cost of the possible lawsuits against the surety of the cost of the recall, and if the suits are cheaper, they're not going to care about people dying.Corporations do NOT care about your safety unless it is monetarily profitable to them or a government forces them to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30999910</id>
	<title>YouTube Video</title>
	<author>qued</author>
	<datestamp>1265142840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So Woz just needs to get some good video of him showing how the defect happens along with a nice script ala the racist HP camera and post it to YouTube then let it go viral.

Seems simple doesn't it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So Woz just needs to get some good video of him showing how the defect happens along with a nice script ala the racist HP camera and post it to YouTube then let it go viral .
Seems simple does n't it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Woz just needs to get some good video of him showing how the defect happens along with a nice script ala the racist HP camera and post it to YouTube then let it go viral.
Seems simple doesn't it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997632</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thats what I thought, but we're both dicks overlooking a major point: It was a push button ignition.</p><p>I've never used push button ignitions before. Until this story, I didn't know that you had to hold the button for 3 seconds to turn the car off.</p><p>If I had to find that out while my car was doing &gt;100mph, I might be dead too.  Pretty easy to assume that all the electrical systems are unrespnsive once the accelerator is stuck and hitting the power button isnt doing anything.</p><p>Putting it in neutral still seems like an option, but I think that might be what toyota is trying to distract us from -- The shifter is all electronic too, and some are saying it was not responding.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thats what I thought , but we 're both dicks overlooking a major point : It was a push button ignition.I 've never used push button ignitions before .
Until this story , I did n't know that you had to hold the button for 3 seconds to turn the car off.If I had to find that out while my car was doing &gt; 100mph , I might be dead too .
Pretty easy to assume that all the electrical systems are unrespnsive once the accelerator is stuck and hitting the power button isnt doing anything.Putting it in neutral still seems like an option , but I think that might be what toyota is trying to distract us from -- The shifter is all electronic too , and some are saying it was not responding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thats what I thought, but we're both dicks overlooking a major point: It was a push button ignition.I've never used push button ignitions before.
Until this story, I didn't know that you had to hold the button for 3 seconds to turn the car off.If I had to find that out while my car was doing &gt;100mph, I might be dead too.
Pretty easy to assume that all the electrical systems are unrespnsive once the accelerator is stuck and hitting the power button isnt doing anything.Putting it in neutral still seems like an option, but I think that might be what toyota is trying to distract us from -- The shifter is all electronic too, and some are saying it was not responding.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996410</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Wrath0fb0b</author>
	<datestamp>1265130180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel</p></div><p>Steering wheels do not lock until you <i>remove</i> the key from the car altogether. Try it when you get into your car next. Pull the key out, turn the wheel until it locks and then put the key back and turn to the ACC position (not the ON position where it would be during normal operation) and see that it unlocks the wheel. Maybe Toyotas are different, but I doubt it.</p><p>The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it. I'd rather not damage or destroy my engine if not absolutely necessary (although I suppose Toyota would kick in for a new one). Plus, if the engine blows a seal or seizes, you aren't going to have power steering or brakes anyway.</p><p>Finally, a person of moderate strength is still capable of braking from highway speeds without power assist. It's not an easy as with assist but neither does it require superhuman strength.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheelSteering wheels do not lock until you remove the key from the car altogether .
Try it when you get into your car next .
Pull the key out , turn the wheel until it locks and then put the key back and turn to the ACC position ( not the ON position where it would be during normal operation ) and see that it unlocks the wheel .
Maybe Toyotas are different , but I doubt it.The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance , which is less than good for it .
I 'd rather not damage or destroy my engine if not absolutely necessary ( although I suppose Toyota would kick in for a new one ) .
Plus , if the engine blows a seal or seizes , you are n't going to have power steering or brakes anyway.Finally , a person of moderate strength is still capable of braking from highway speeds without power assist .
It 's not an easy as with assist but neither does it require superhuman strength .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheelSteering wheels do not lock until you remove the key from the car altogether.
Try it when you get into your car next.
Pull the key out, turn the wheel until it locks and then put the key back and turn to the ACC position (not the ON position where it would be during normal operation) and see that it unlocks the wheel.
Maybe Toyotas are different, but I doubt it.The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it.
I'd rather not damage or destroy my engine if not absolutely necessary (although I suppose Toyota would kick in for a new one).
Plus, if the engine blows a seal or seizes, you aren't going to have power steering or brakes anyway.Finally, a person of moderate strength is still capable of braking from highway speeds without power assist.
It's not an easy as with assist but neither does it require superhuman strength.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996538</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota Accelerator "Not an Electronics Problem"</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1265130600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cor, and all for the retail price of the vehicle.  Aren't they lucky.</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cor , and all for the retail price of the vehicle .
Are n't they lucky.RgdsDamon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cor, and all for the retail price of the vehicle.
Aren't they lucky.RgdsDamon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998944</id>
	<title>This is the problemwith crusie control</title>
	<author>cadience</author>
	<datestamp>1265138880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's no feedback of requested speed; the feedback is the current speed of the car. You can request an increase of speed, but there is a finite time in which the car can respond to the requested increase. Given the variance in terrain it is quite possible that you are, after some time, requesting a speed that is significantly higher than the current speed resulting in sudden increase in acceleration toward an unknown target speed. This will seem as an unexpected reaction, as you are looking at the current speed as the target speed which isn't the case. Essentially, the feedback loop isn't closed correctly, and people cant do calculus that quickly in there head. I've complained about this for years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no feedback of requested speed ; the feedback is the current speed of the car .
You can request an increase of speed , but there is a finite time in which the car can respond to the requested increase .
Given the variance in terrain it is quite possible that you are , after some time , requesting a speed that is significantly higher than the current speed resulting in sudden increase in acceleration toward an unknown target speed .
This will seem as an unexpected reaction , as you are looking at the current speed as the target speed which is n't the case .
Essentially , the feedback loop is n't closed correctly , and people cant do calculus that quickly in there head .
I 've complained about this for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no feedback of requested speed; the feedback is the current speed of the car.
You can request an increase of speed, but there is a finite time in which the car can respond to the requested increase.
Given the variance in terrain it is quite possible that you are, after some time, requesting a speed that is significantly higher than the current speed resulting in sudden increase in acceleration toward an unknown target speed.
This will seem as an unexpected reaction, as you are looking at the current speed as the target speed which isn't the case.
Essentially, the feedback loop isn't closed correctly, and people cant do calculus that quickly in there head.
I've complained about this for years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997338</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265133300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?</p></div><p>Yes</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it 's moving ? Yes</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it possible to put an automatic in neutral while it's moving?Yes
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996922</id>
	<title>Mostly an american problem!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When an accelerator goes wild in an european car, the driver hits the coupling-pedal and the situation is solved.<br>The engine is still running, all your systems have full power and the Wheel does not lock.</p><p>But when an accelerator fails in the american pussy-automatics-car, you have a more serious problem...</p><p>Thats life, learn to handle a gearstick or get fucked in the next intersection!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When an accelerator goes wild in an european car , the driver hits the coupling-pedal and the situation is solved.The engine is still running , all your systems have full power and the Wheel does not lock.But when an accelerator fails in the american pussy-automatics-car , you have a more serious problem...Thats life , learn to handle a gearstick or get fucked in the next intersection !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When an accelerator goes wild in an european car, the driver hits the coupling-pedal and the situation is solved.The engine is still running, all your systems have full power and the Wheel does not lock.But when an accelerator fails in the american pussy-automatics-car, you have a more serious problem...Thats life, learn to handle a gearstick or get fucked in the next intersection!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997324</id>
	<title>Re:This always made me wonder</title>
	<author>Gordonjcp</author>
	<datestamp>1265133240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing.</i> </p><p>I like the throttle-by-wire system on my '88 Citro&#235;n CX.  The throttle pedal consists of a flat metal plate pivoted on a steel bar, and a steel wire bolted to the other end of the bar goes through the bulkhead into the engine bay and pulls a little lever on the side of the carburettor.  The only time it gets affected by bugs is during the summer when the air filter gets a bit clogged.  I have had a catastrophic throttle failures, when the wee spring came off the throttle lever and got lost (if you see a tension spring about 3/4" diameter and 2" long somewhere on the road between Dundee and Perth, it's mine).  All that happened was it shut slowly and idled at 1300rpm.</p><p>Low tech machinery is awesome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing .
I like the throttle-by-wire system on my '88 Citro   n CX .
The throttle pedal consists of a flat metal plate pivoted on a steel bar , and a steel wire bolted to the other end of the bar goes through the bulkhead into the engine bay and pulls a little lever on the side of the carburettor .
The only time it gets affected by bugs is during the summer when the air filter gets a bit clogged .
I have had a catastrophic throttle failures , when the wee spring came off the throttle lever and got lost ( if you see a tension spring about 3/4 " diameter and 2 " long somewhere on the road between Dundee and Perth , it 's mine ) .
All that happened was it shut slowly and idled at 1300rpm.Low tech machinery is awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why certain critical vehicle systems would ever be allowed to be electronic without NASA level testing.
I like the throttle-by-wire system on my '88 Citroën CX.
The throttle pedal consists of a flat metal plate pivoted on a steel bar, and a steel wire bolted to the other end of the bar goes through the bulkhead into the engine bay and pulls a little lever on the side of the carburettor.
The only time it gets affected by bugs is during the summer when the air filter gets a bit clogged.
I have had a catastrophic throttle failures, when the wee spring came off the throttle lever and got lost (if you see a tension spring about 3/4" diameter and 2" long somewhere on the road between Dundee and Perth, it's mine).
All that happened was it shut slowly and idled at 1300rpm.Low tech machinery is awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996430</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>pfigura</author>
	<datestamp>1265130240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod parent up! Woz (apparently) posted how to reproduce this issue on Slashdot in the past.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up !
Woz ( apparently ) posted how to reproduce this issue on Slashdot in the past .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up!
Woz (apparently) posted how to reproduce this issue on Slashdot in the past.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997640</id>
	<title>Re:I don't believe it</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1265134200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it's any consolation, the guy in the Hummer may be alive--but he still has a tiny dick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's any consolation , the guy in the Hummer may be alive--but he still has a tiny dick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it's any consolation, the guy in the Hummer may be alive--but he still has a tiny dick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31000364</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1265101620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Off and Lock are generally two different positions, even if you aren't aware of it, you can turn the car off without reaching the lock position, which is where you can remove the key and engage the steering wheel lock.  Some cars even have measures in place to prevent the lock from engaging until the car is placed in park so even if you turn the key to lock, it won't lock while in drive/reverse/neutral, only park.</p><p>You won't loose brakes as long as the engine is turning over, which it will as long as its in gear even with an automatic transmission above about 20mph, and even then you'll still have some built up braking boost, generally more than enough to stop from even a high speed.</p><p>Yyou turn the engine off, and use the lowest gear possible.  You'll still have every other powered system in your car working because they all derive power from the engine turning over or from the battery power itself.  Power brakes are vacuum assisted from crank case pressure differential that exists as long as the crackshaft is turning and you have intact pistons.  Power steering is directly powered by belt/gear/chain connected to the drive shaft.  Battery is still there to power all electrical options.</p><p>Please don't give advice about things you aren't actually all that knowledgeable about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Off and Lock are generally two different positions , even if you are n't aware of it , you can turn the car off without reaching the lock position , which is where you can remove the key and engage the steering wheel lock .
Some cars even have measures in place to prevent the lock from engaging until the car is placed in park so even if you turn the key to lock , it wo n't lock while in drive/reverse/neutral , only park.You wo n't loose brakes as long as the engine is turning over , which it will as long as its in gear even with an automatic transmission above about 20mph , and even then you 'll still have some built up braking boost , generally more than enough to stop from even a high speed.Yyou turn the engine off , and use the lowest gear possible .
You 'll still have every other powered system in your car working because they all derive power from the engine turning over or from the battery power itself .
Power brakes are vacuum assisted from crank case pressure differential that exists as long as the crackshaft is turning and you have intact pistons .
Power steering is directly powered by belt/gear/chain connected to the drive shaft .
Battery is still there to power all electrical options.Please do n't give advice about things you are n't actually all that knowledgeable about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Off and Lock are generally two different positions, even if you aren't aware of it, you can turn the car off without reaching the lock position, which is where you can remove the key and engage the steering wheel lock.
Some cars even have measures in place to prevent the lock from engaging until the car is placed in park so even if you turn the key to lock, it won't lock while in drive/reverse/neutral, only park.You won't loose brakes as long as the engine is turning over, which it will as long as its in gear even with an automatic transmission above about 20mph, and even then you'll still have some built up braking boost, generally more than enough to stop from even a high speed.Yyou turn the engine off, and use the lowest gear possible.
You'll still have every other powered system in your car working because they all derive power from the engine turning over or from the battery power itself.
Power brakes are vacuum assisted from crank case pressure differential that exists as long as the crackshaft is turning and you have intact pistons.
Power steering is directly powered by belt/gear/chain connected to the drive shaft.
Battery is still there to power all electrical options.Please don't give advice about things you aren't actually all that knowledgeable about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31004018</id>
	<title>Re:Safely.  noted this one on /. before:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265121300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>woz said he could reproduce safely</em> </p><p>
Good to know he's getting laid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>woz said he could reproduce safely Good to know he 's getting laid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> woz said he could reproduce safely 
Good to know he's getting laid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995914</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995844</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know better.  99.9\% of the "experts" that call customer service are people who <i>think</i> they know a whole lot, and can talk a good game, but don't actually know what they're talking about.  Also, first level techs are basically script-reading drones who get paid garbage wages for an essentially unskilled job.  You can't expect people like that to accurately determine if someone is an expert or not.
<br> <br>The end result is you would end up with a lot of people who sound like they know what they're talking about being escalated and wasting the time of your skilled (and highly paid) engineers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service , because they know better .
99.9 \ % of the " experts " that call customer service are people who think they know a whole lot , and can talk a good game , but do n't actually know what they 're talking about .
Also , first level techs are basically script-reading drones who get paid garbage wages for an essentially unskilled job .
You ca n't expect people like that to accurately determine if someone is an expert or not .
The end result is you would end up with a lot of people who sound like they know what they 're talking about being escalated and wasting the time of your skilled ( and highly paid ) engineers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is the really competent people almost never actually call customer service, because they know better.
99.9\% of the "experts" that call customer service are people who think they know a whole lot, and can talk a good game, but don't actually know what they're talking about.
Also, first level techs are basically script-reading drones who get paid garbage wages for an essentially unskilled job.
You can't expect people like that to accurately determine if someone is an expert or not.
The end result is you would end up with a lot of people who sound like they know what they're talking about being escalated and wasting the time of your skilled (and highly paid) engineers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31001996</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Skuld-Chan</author>
	<datestamp>1265109480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogether</p></div></blockquote><p>My 1984 Gran Fury - with its hydraulic steering - yes this would be rather dangerous (not impossible to steer, but extremely difficult - speaking from experience). However on my 2004 Civic - no problem - its steering is power assisted rack and pinion and quite easy to steer with no power.</p><p>Good thing hydraulic steering is illegal in most states - whoever thought that was a good idea...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel , preventing you from steering altogetherMy 1984 Gran Fury - with its hydraulic steering - yes this would be rather dangerous ( not impossible to steer , but extremely difficult - speaking from experience ) .
However on my 2004 Civic - no problem - its steering is power assisted rack and pinion and quite easy to steer with no power.Good thing hydraulic steering is illegal in most states - whoever thought that was a good idea.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do NOT turn off the car - this could lock your wheel, preventing you from steering altogetherMy 1984 Gran Fury - with its hydraulic steering - yes this would be rather dangerous (not impossible to steer, but extremely difficult - speaking from experience).
However on my 2004 Civic - no problem - its steering is power assisted rack and pinion and quite easy to steer with no power.Good thing hydraulic steering is illegal in most states - whoever thought that was a good idea...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996112</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>parliboy</author>
	<datestamp>1265129160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about this.  My PT Cruiser, if it drops enough speed when going up a hill or overpass on cruise control, will rev up quite a bit to make up speed.  I actually base my speed decisions on the inclines of the road.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about this .
My PT Cruiser , if it drops enough speed when going up a hill or overpass on cruise control , will rev up quite a bit to make up speed .
I actually base my speed decisions on the inclines of the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about this.
My PT Cruiser, if it drops enough speed when going up a hill or overpass on cruise control, will rev up quite a bit to make up speed.
I actually base my speed decisions on the inclines of the road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995946</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1265128680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think i'll believe THE computer guy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think i 'll believe THE computer guy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think i'll believe THE computer guy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997958</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>FrigBot</author>
	<datestamp>1265135220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Citation please.</p><p>No automatic transmission car I've ever driven has given me any resistance when trying to drop the car into neutral, at any speed and rpm, with the engine on or off. You don't even have to push the release button to do it. It's a traditional design feature. And I see no reason why a new Toyota would be any different.</p><p>But then again, most people have no idea what neutral or the low gears are for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Citation please.No automatic transmission car I 've ever driven has given me any resistance when trying to drop the car into neutral , at any speed and rpm , with the engine on or off .
You do n't even have to push the release button to do it .
It 's a traditional design feature .
And I see no reason why a new Toyota would be any different.But then again , most people have no idea what neutral or the low gears are for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Citation please.No automatic transmission car I've ever driven has given me any resistance when trying to drop the car into neutral, at any speed and rpm, with the engine on or off.
You don't even have to push the release button to do it.
It's a traditional design feature.
And I see no reason why a new Toyota would be any different.But then again, most people have no idea what neutral or the low gears are for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997422</id>
	<title>My 1994 Chrysler New Yorker Had Similar Problem</title>
	<author>JakFrost</author>
	<datestamp>1265133600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1430048&amp;cid=29973870" title="slashdot.org">Re:Floor mat, really? (Score:5, Interesting)</a> [slashdot.org]<br>by SteveWoz (152247) writes: Alter Relationship on 2009-11-04 0:12 (#29973870) </p><blockquote><div><p>I have owned many Prius's. I currently drive a 2010 one. Let's say that I'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal. I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83. Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit. Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more. By then my Prius is doing 97. It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control. I tested this over and over the night I observed it.</p><p>It's scary because you don't think of things like putting the car in neutral when this happens. I am sure you can't turn the car off with the keyless power button, the only option on this model.</p><p>Braking does disable this scary cruise control effect. It is a natural response, so the problem is mitigated a great deal.</p><p>I have not seen this happen before so I think it's new to the 2010. I have the package which includes parallel parking assist and cruise control distance limiter.</p></div></blockquote><p>My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it wasn't as acute as was Steve describes.  If I was going up any small  hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once, twice, three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost +10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended, making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.</p><p><i>Oh and I'm not trying to play down the problem with Toyota's accelerator pedal recall or now this cruise control issue, there is a real issue there that needs to be addressed and it appears like there is some cover-up and a lack of accountability and openness about these problems from Toyota's reactions.</i></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Re : Floor mat , really ?
( Score : 5 , Interesting ) [ slashdot.org ] by SteveWoz ( 152247 ) writes : Alter Relationship on 2009-11-04 0 : 12 ( # 29973870 ) I have owned many Prius 's .
I currently drive a 2010 one .
Let 's say that I 'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal .
I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up , say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again , up to 83 .
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off , no speed limit .
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I 've done it about 10 times or more .
By then my Prius is doing 97 .
It 's scary because it 's so wrong and so out of your normal control .
I tested this over and over the night I observed it.It 's scary because you do n't think of things like putting the car in neutral when this happens .
I am sure you ca n't turn the car off with the keyless power button , the only option on this model.Braking does disable this scary cruise control effect .
It is a natural response , so the problem is mitigated a great deal.I have not seen this happen before so I think it 's new to the 2010 .
I have the package which includes parallel parking assist and cruise control distance limiter.My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it was n't as acute as was Steve describes .
If I was going up any small hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once , twice , three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost + 10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended , making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.Oh and I 'm not trying to play down the problem with Toyota 's accelerator pedal recall or now this cruise control issue , there is a real issue there that needs to be addressed and it appears like there is some cover-up and a lack of accountability and openness about these problems from Toyota 's reactions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Re:Floor mat, really?
(Score:5, Interesting) [slashdot.org]by SteveWoz (152247) writes: Alter Relationship on 2009-11-04 0:12 (#29973870) I have owned many Prius's.
I currently drive a 2010 one.
Let's say that I'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal.
I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83.
Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit.
Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more.
By then my Prius is doing 97.
It's scary because it's so wrong and so out of your normal control.
I tested this over and over the night I observed it.It's scary because you don't think of things like putting the car in neutral when this happens.
I am sure you can't turn the car off with the keyless power button, the only option on this model.Braking does disable this scary cruise control effect.
It is a natural response, so the problem is mitigated a great deal.I have not seen this happen before so I think it's new to the 2010.
I have the package which includes parallel parking assist and cruise control distance limiter.My old 1994 Chrysler New Yorker had a similar problem with cruise control but it wasn't as acute as was Steve describes.
If I was going up any small  hill on a highway and I hit the cruise control speed up button once, twice, three times the car would try to accelerate a little and then rev up like mad and try to speed up by almost +10 miles per hour until it was going much faster than I intended, making me hold the coast button for a while unit it slows down or by turning off cruise control all together with the Off button or by a light tap on the breaks.Oh and I'm not trying to play down the problem with Toyota's accelerator pedal recall or now this cruise control issue, there is a real issue there that needs to be addressed and it appears like there is some cover-up and a lack of accountability and openness about these problems from Toyota's reactions.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.31005656</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>Old Man Kensey</author>
	<datestamp>1265131380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are a couple of managers I let make themselves look very, very bad in a conference call with a customer not long ago.
<p>
Basically we had two teams that worked closely together to serve a certain class of user requests.  Team A was the team generally so tasked, and Team B (my team) was the admin team that backed them up in case of problems.  Note that our duties as sysadmins were NOT to serve user requests, but to fix broken things and set up new things.  Basically if it didn't involve server hardware or OS issues, it wasn't our job.
</p><p>
One of our guys, way, way back in the days before Team A existed and this stuff <i>was</i> our job, wrote himself a set of scripts to automate these tasks.  When Team A was created, he handed them over, strictly out of a desire to be helpful and with absolutely no commitment to maintain them or guarantee that they even worked, with the understanding that Team A was responsible for doing things manually if needed.  But over time and with high turnover, the stipulations were forgotten and Team A came to believe that if the scripts didn't work or they didn't have the appropriate script for the task, they were to refer the user request to us.
</p><p>
As it happened, this was becoming an issue right as a lot of our team were moving on to a new contract.  So I stood up and said "hey guys, we don't have the bodies any more to do your jobs too".  Team A's management got passive-aggressive -- they'd wait till the ticket clock was about to expire, then refer the tickets to us so we <i>had</i> to fill the request or provide a reason why we weren't able to in time.  Ultimately I demanded and got a conference call in which Team A's management admitted (after it being made clear that the scripts were <i>not</i> an officially-sanctioned tool and did <i>not</i> absolve them of manual effort if needed) that they actually had no idea what was involved in serving these requests, so they <i>couldn't</i> do them manually.
</p><p>
Oh, by the way, Manager A, the customer's CISO is on this call.  Oops.
</p><p>
Honestly, though, there was no good solution.  We could just keep referring tickets forever, and both teams would look bad; I could do what I did, and piss off Team A; or I could have let them dump their work on our team, which then would have major impact on us and the customer.  Ultimately option 2 had the advantage of both protecting my team and conforming to the documented procedures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a couple of managers I let make themselves look very , very bad in a conference call with a customer not long ago .
Basically we had two teams that worked closely together to serve a certain class of user requests .
Team A was the team generally so tasked , and Team B ( my team ) was the admin team that backed them up in case of problems .
Note that our duties as sysadmins were NOT to serve user requests , but to fix broken things and set up new things .
Basically if it did n't involve server hardware or OS issues , it was n't our job .
One of our guys , way , way back in the days before Team A existed and this stuff was our job , wrote himself a set of scripts to automate these tasks .
When Team A was created , he handed them over , strictly out of a desire to be helpful and with absolutely no commitment to maintain them or guarantee that they even worked , with the understanding that Team A was responsible for doing things manually if needed .
But over time and with high turnover , the stipulations were forgotten and Team A came to believe that if the scripts did n't work or they did n't have the appropriate script for the task , they were to refer the user request to us .
As it happened , this was becoming an issue right as a lot of our team were moving on to a new contract .
So I stood up and said " hey guys , we do n't have the bodies any more to do your jobs too " .
Team A 's management got passive-aggressive -- they 'd wait till the ticket clock was about to expire , then refer the tickets to us so we had to fill the request or provide a reason why we were n't able to in time .
Ultimately I demanded and got a conference call in which Team A 's management admitted ( after it being made clear that the scripts were not an officially-sanctioned tool and did not absolve them of manual effort if needed ) that they actually had no idea what was involved in serving these requests , so they could n't do them manually .
Oh , by the way , Manager A , the customer 's CISO is on this call .
Oops . Honestly , though , there was no good solution .
We could just keep referring tickets forever , and both teams would look bad ; I could do what I did , and piss off Team A ; or I could have let them dump their work on our team , which then would have major impact on us and the customer .
Ultimately option 2 had the advantage of both protecting my team and conforming to the documented procedures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a couple of managers I let make themselves look very, very bad in a conference call with a customer not long ago.
Basically we had two teams that worked closely together to serve a certain class of user requests.
Team A was the team generally so tasked, and Team B (my team) was the admin team that backed them up in case of problems.
Note that our duties as sysadmins were NOT to serve user requests, but to fix broken things and set up new things.
Basically if it didn't involve server hardware or OS issues, it wasn't our job.
One of our guys, way, way back in the days before Team A existed and this stuff was our job, wrote himself a set of scripts to automate these tasks.
When Team A was created, he handed them over, strictly out of a desire to be helpful and with absolutely no commitment to maintain them or guarantee that they even worked, with the understanding that Team A was responsible for doing things manually if needed.
But over time and with high turnover, the stipulations were forgotten and Team A came to believe that if the scripts didn't work or they didn't have the appropriate script for the task, they were to refer the user request to us.
As it happened, this was becoming an issue right as a lot of our team were moving on to a new contract.
So I stood up and said "hey guys, we don't have the bodies any more to do your jobs too".
Team A's management got passive-aggressive -- they'd wait till the ticket clock was about to expire, then refer the tickets to us so we had to fill the request or provide a reason why we weren't able to in time.
Ultimately I demanded and got a conference call in which Team A's management admitted (after it being made clear that the scripts were not an officially-sanctioned tool and did not absolve them of manual effort if needed) that they actually had no idea what was involved in serving these requests, so they couldn't do them manually.
Oh, by the way, Manager A, the customer's CISO is on this call.
Oops.

Honestly, though, there was no good solution.
We could just keep referring tickets forever, and both teams would look bad; I could do what I did, and piss off Team A; or I could have let them dump their work on our team, which then would have major impact on us and the customer.
Ultimately option 2 had the advantage of both protecting my team and conforming to the documented procedures.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996804</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>spun</author>
	<datestamp>1265131500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it is 'easily reproducible' as Woz claims, it isn't the same issue Toyota has been talking about. Woz is just trying to get his face out there, he must be missing the spotlight (snicker) after he and Kathy Griffin broke up.</p><p>No, I'm convinced this is the decades old bog-standard problem with cruise control, automatic transmissions, and hills. Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission which is more expensive than running it off of hydraulics powered by engine vacuum.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is 'easily reproducible ' as Woz claims , it is n't the same issue Toyota has been talking about .
Woz is just trying to get his face out there , he must be missing the spotlight ( snicker ) after he and Kathy Griffin broke up.No , I 'm convinced this is the decades old bog-standard problem with cruise control , automatic transmissions , and hills .
Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission which is more expensive than running it off of hydraulics powered by engine vacuum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is 'easily reproducible' as Woz claims, it isn't the same issue Toyota has been talking about.
Woz is just trying to get his face out there, he must be missing the spotlight (snicker) after he and Kathy Griffin broke up.No, I'm convinced this is the decades old bog-standard problem with cruise control, automatic transmissions, and hills.
Fixing it would require computerizing the automatic transmission which is more expensive than running it off of hydraulics powered by engine vacuum.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996966</id>
	<title>Re:Woz, you're an idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265132160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You don't have to change speed to accelerate. A change in direction is also acceleration. If you drive around a curve, you are accelerating, even if you don't change speed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't have to change speed to accelerate .
A change in direction is also acceleration .
If you drive around a curve , you are accelerating , even if you do n't change speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't have to change speed to accelerate.
A change in direction is also acceleration.
If you drive around a curve, you are accelerating, even if you don't change speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996564</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1265130660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For sake of completeness, the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars (slightly extended):<br>
<br>
1. Take right foot off gas pedal<br>
2. Slam right foot on clutch<br>
3. Slam left foot on brake (can be performed simultaneously with step 2)<br>
4. Steer off the road once it's reasonably safe to do so<br>
5. Turn off engine<br>
6. Engage hand brake<br>
7. Engage emegency lights and follow standard car breakdown procedures</htmltext>
<tokenext>For sake of completeness , the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars ( slightly extended ) : 1 .
Take right foot off gas pedal 2 .
Slam right foot on clutch 3 .
Slam left foot on brake ( can be performed simultaneously with step 2 ) 4 .
Steer off the road once it 's reasonably safe to do so 5 .
Turn off engine 6 .
Engage hand brake 7 .
Engage emegency lights and follow standard car breakdown procedures</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For sake of completeness, the appropriate equivalent for manual-transmission cars (slightly extended):

1.
Take right foot off gas pedal
2.
Slam right foot on clutch
3.
Slam left foot on brake (can be performed simultaneously with step 2)
4.
Steer off the road once it's reasonably safe to do so
5.
Turn off engine
6.
Engage hand brake
7.
Engage emegency lights and follow standard car breakdown procedures</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996780</id>
	<title>Re:Jalopnik has been covering this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265131440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They apply the formula.  You know the one they openly mocked in Fight Club?</p><p><a href="http://jeremiahgrossman.blogspot.com/2006/12/applying-formula.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://jeremiahgrossman.blogspot.com/2006/12/applying-formula.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p><p>It really comes down to what do they think you dieing will cost them.  Their moral compass is off if they apply this formula.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They apply the formula .
You know the one they openly mocked in Fight Club ? http : //jeremiahgrossman.blogspot.com/2006/12/applying-formula.html [ blogspot.com ] It really comes down to what do they think you dieing will cost them .
Their moral compass is off if they apply this formula .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They apply the formula.
You know the one they openly mocked in Fight Club?http://jeremiahgrossman.blogspot.com/2006/12/applying-formula.html [blogspot.com]It really comes down to what do they think you dieing will cost them.
Their moral compass is off if they apply this formula.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997806</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>musclemerc</author>
	<datestamp>1265134740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in San Diego where the CA State Trooper incident happened.<br> <br>
In this case, the car was a loaner Lexus with push button ignition he had just picked up from the dealership.
He had never driven a car with this feature before, and was not aware that to turn the car off, the ignition had to be held down for 5 seconds - much like a computer power switch. It is completely understandable that he was not able to figure this out from the owners manual or by talking to the 911 operator while in a panic situation.
<br> <br>
I'm not sure why he didn't put the car in neutral as other comments have suggested - the transmission may have had some type of interlock feature preventing this. The area where the incident happened is also a fairly steep downgrade, so with the brakes already shot, he may have done this but it didn't change the outcome.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in San Diego where the CA State Trooper incident happened .
In this case , the car was a loaner Lexus with push button ignition he had just picked up from the dealership .
He had never driven a car with this feature before , and was not aware that to turn the car off , the ignition had to be held down for 5 seconds - much like a computer power switch .
It is completely understandable that he was not able to figure this out from the owners manual or by talking to the 911 operator while in a panic situation .
I 'm not sure why he did n't put the car in neutral as other comments have suggested - the transmission may have had some type of interlock feature preventing this .
The area where the incident happened is also a fairly steep downgrade , so with the brakes already shot , he may have done this but it did n't change the outcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in San Diego where the CA State Trooper incident happened.
In this case, the car was a loaner Lexus with push button ignition he had just picked up from the dealership.
He had never driven a car with this feature before, and was not aware that to turn the car off, the ignition had to be held down for 5 seconds - much like a computer power switch.
It is completely understandable that he was not able to figure this out from the owners manual or by talking to the 911 operator while in a panic situation.
I'm not sure why he didn't put the car in neutral as other comments have suggested - the transmission may have had some type of interlock feature preventing this.
The area where the incident happened is also a fairly steep downgrade, so with the brakes already shot, he may have done this but it didn't change the outcome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997794</id>
	<title>Re:But it's the Apple dude who says so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, let's blindly trust the corporation.  You're a smart one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , let 's blindly trust the corporation .
You 're a smart one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, let's blindly trust the corporation.
You're a smart one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995738</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997204</id>
	<title>Re:A Public Service Announcement to AllToyota Driv</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1265132880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What key? There is just a button. While the normal human reaction to a panic situation (or even when you're in a hurry) is to press a button repeatedly and rapid fire, the button will only actually turn the car off at speed if you press and hold it, just like a modern PC.</p><p>Apparently the auto designers have never been in an elevator. Here we have an action that will only be taken in a panic situation when all sense of time is distorted to make a second seem like an eternity and the car is already not behaving normally and the designers are urging the driver to press the button and be patient!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What key ?
There is just a button .
While the normal human reaction to a panic situation ( or even when you 're in a hurry ) is to press a button repeatedly and rapid fire , the button will only actually turn the car off at speed if you press and hold it , just like a modern PC.Apparently the auto designers have never been in an elevator .
Here we have an action that will only be taken in a panic situation when all sense of time is distorted to make a second seem like an eternity and the car is already not behaving normally and the designers are urging the driver to press the button and be patient !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What key?
There is just a button.
While the normal human reaction to a panic situation (or even when you're in a hurry) is to press a button repeatedly and rapid fire, the button will only actually turn the car off at speed if you press and hold it, just like a modern PC.Apparently the auto designers have never been in an elevator.
Here we have an action that will only be taken in a panic situation when all sense of time is distorted to make a second seem like an eternity and the car is already not behaving normally and the designers are urging the driver to press the button and be patient!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30995934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996300</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This whole "sudden acceleration" issue is a non-issue (or at least it should be a bug, but not a horrible death trap) if people just had functioning brains; as the parent said: "PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS" and all should come to a stop.  I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people's brains...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This whole " sudden acceleration " issue is a non-issue ( or at least it should be a bug , but not a horrible death trap ) if people just had functioning brains ; as the parent said : " PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS " and all should come to a stop .
I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people 's brains.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This whole "sudden acceleration" issue is a non-issue (or at least it should be a bug, but not a horrible death trap) if people just had functioning brains; as the parent said: "PUT THE DAMN CAR IN N and PRESS THE BREAKS" and all should come to a stop.
I guess that too many cheeseburgers with super-sized fries have finally shown their effects in people's brains...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997780</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Customer Service Department attitude</title>
	<author>blair1q</author>
	<datestamp>1265134680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But now that Woz says there's a bug you know there's a bug, so how boring is your next ride in your wife's Prius going to be?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But now that Woz says there 's a bug you know there 's a bug , so how boring is your next ride in your wife 's Prius going to be ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But now that Woz says there's a bug you know there's a bug, so how boring is your next ride in your wife's Prius going to be?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30998208</id>
	<title>I'm tradmarking...</title>
	<author>Virtucon</author>
	<datestamp>1265136060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I realize Woz really isn't heavily involved with Apple, but I think I need to trademark:  iCrash and iFail</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize Woz really is n't heavily involved with Apple , but I think I need to trademark : iCrash and iFail</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize Woz really isn't heavily involved with Apple, but I think I need to trademark:  iCrash and iFail</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30997714</id>
	<title>Re:TERRIBLE ADVICE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it.</p></div><p>A car is out of control. The engine is racing. Brakes ineffective. And your advice is to not put it in neutral because "you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it." <br> <br>

I have read some dumb shit here before, but your advice is just killer. Good luck in the call centre.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance , which is less than good for it.A car is out of control .
The engine is racing .
Brakes ineffective .
And your advice is to not put it in neutral because " you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance , which is less than good for it .
" I have read some dumb shit here before , but your advice is just killer .
Good luck in the call centre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with putting the car in neutral with the throttle stuck is that you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it.A car is out of control.
The engine is racing.
Brakes ineffective.
And your advice is to not put it in neutral because "you are going to be redlining your engine with no resistance, which is less than good for it.
"  

I have read some dumb shit here before, but your advice is just killer.
Good luck in the call centre.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_02_1458230.30996410</parent>
</comment>
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