<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_01_2352228</id>
	<title>Electric Bicycles Surging In Popularity</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1265042220000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>gollum123 writes <i>"An accidental transportation upheaval began in China, where an estimated 120 million electric bicycles now hum along the roads, up from a few thousand in the 1990s. They are replacing traditional bikes and motorcycles at a rapid clip and, in many cases, allowing people to put off the switch to cars. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/global/01ebike.html?hpw&amp;pagewanted=all">The booming Chinese electric-bike industry is spurring worldwide interest</a> and impressive sales in India, Europe, and the US. China is exporting many bikes, and Western manufacturers are also copying the Chinese trend to produce models of their own. From virtually nothing a decade ago, electric bikes have become an $11 billion global industry. In the Netherlands, a third of the money spent on bicycles last year went to electric-powered models. Industry experts predict similar growth elsewhere in Europe, especially in Germany, France, and Italy, as rising interest in cycling coincides with an aging population. India had virtually no sales until two years ago, but its nascent market is fast expanding and could eclipse Europe's in the next year. In China, electric bicycles have evolved into bigger machines that resemble Vespa scooters. These larger models are causing headaches for global transportation planners. They cannot decide whether to embrace them as a green form of transportation, or ban them as a safety hazard. Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>gollum123 writes " An accidental transportation upheaval began in China , where an estimated 120 million electric bicycles now hum along the roads , up from a few thousand in the 1990s .
They are replacing traditional bikes and motorcycles at a rapid clip and , in many cases , allowing people to put off the switch to cars .
The booming Chinese electric-bike industry is spurring worldwide interest and impressive sales in India , Europe , and the US .
China is exporting many bikes , and Western manufacturers are also copying the Chinese trend to produce models of their own .
From virtually nothing a decade ago , electric bikes have become an $ 11 billion global industry .
In the Netherlands , a third of the money spent on bicycles last year went to electric-powered models .
Industry experts predict similar growth elsewhere in Europe , especially in Germany , France , and Italy , as rising interest in cycling coincides with an aging population .
India had virtually no sales until two years ago , but its nascent market is fast expanding and could eclipse Europe 's in the next year .
In China , electric bicycles have evolved into bigger machines that resemble Vespa scooters .
These larger models are causing headaches for global transportation planners .
They can not decide whether to embrace them as a green form of transportation , or ban them as a safety hazard .
Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>gollum123 writes "An accidental transportation upheaval began in China, where an estimated 120 million electric bicycles now hum along the roads, up from a few thousand in the 1990s.
They are replacing traditional bikes and motorcycles at a rapid clip and, in many cases, allowing people to put off the switch to cars.
The booming Chinese electric-bike industry is spurring worldwide interest and impressive sales in India, Europe, and the US.
China is exporting many bikes, and Western manufacturers are also copying the Chinese trend to produce models of their own.
From virtually nothing a decade ago, electric bikes have become an $11 billion global industry.
In the Netherlands, a third of the money spent on bicycles last year went to electric-powered models.
Industry experts predict similar growth elsewhere in Europe, especially in Germany, France, and Italy, as rising interest in cycling coincides with an aging population.
India had virtually no sales until two years ago, but its nascent market is fast expanding and could eclipse Europe's in the next year.
In China, electric bicycles have evolved into bigger machines that resemble Vespa scooters.
These larger models are causing headaches for global transportation planners.
They cannot decide whether to embrace them as a green form of transportation, or ban them as a safety hazard.
Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991886</id>
	<title>Bucketload of idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265049120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ah it visualizes itself - the whole stadium full of hyperventilating "green" idiots.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah it visualizes itself - the whole stadium full of hyperventilating " green " idiots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah it visualizes itself - the whole stadium full of hyperventilating "green" idiots.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992016</id>
	<title>Maybe not in North America</title>
	<author>spooje</author>
	<datestamp>1265050920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really don't see this catching on in the US.</p><p>Here in Beijing lots of people (me included) ride electric bikes because it's too expensive to have a car and traffic jams are so bad it takes me 15 minutes to ride to the bank whereas it would take me about 1 hour to get there by car during rush hour traffic.  Motorcycles aren't allowed in the center of the city so an electric bike is really convenient for getting around.</p><p>Then there's the question of money.  I bought my bike for 2,100RMB (about $300USD).  This is a little under half a month's salary for the average Beijinger so these things are very affordable especially compared to cars and motorcycles.  I supect this is one of the reasons electric bikes are getting popular in places with a lot of poverty like India.</p><p>Then there's lifestyle.  Here there's no Costco so I'm not hauling bags and bags of groceries at one time.  Also I live in the neighborhood where I work so my commute is only about 10 minutes.  That's the perfect range for one of these bikes.  If you had an hour commute like many people in the US, you'd never be able to take the bike since the average charge seems to get me through about 45ish minutes before I really need to recharge.  That's with peddling to help out the battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do n't see this catching on in the US.Here in Beijing lots of people ( me included ) ride electric bikes because it 's too expensive to have a car and traffic jams are so bad it takes me 15 minutes to ride to the bank whereas it would take me about 1 hour to get there by car during rush hour traffic .
Motorcycles are n't allowed in the center of the city so an electric bike is really convenient for getting around.Then there 's the question of money .
I bought my bike for 2,100RMB ( about $ 300USD ) .
This is a little under half a month 's salary for the average Beijinger so these things are very affordable especially compared to cars and motorcycles .
I supect this is one of the reasons electric bikes are getting popular in places with a lot of poverty like India.Then there 's lifestyle .
Here there 's no Costco so I 'm not hauling bags and bags of groceries at one time .
Also I live in the neighborhood where I work so my commute is only about 10 minutes .
That 's the perfect range for one of these bikes .
If you had an hour commute like many people in the US , you 'd never be able to take the bike since the average charge seems to get me through about 45ish minutes before I really need to recharge .
That 's with peddling to help out the battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really don't see this catching on in the US.Here in Beijing lots of people (me included) ride electric bikes because it's too expensive to have a car and traffic jams are so bad it takes me 15 minutes to ride to the bank whereas it would take me about 1 hour to get there by car during rush hour traffic.
Motorcycles aren't allowed in the center of the city so an electric bike is really convenient for getting around.Then there's the question of money.
I bought my bike for 2,100RMB (about $300USD).
This is a little under half a month's salary for the average Beijinger so these things are very affordable especially compared to cars and motorcycles.
I supect this is one of the reasons electric bikes are getting popular in places with a lot of poverty like India.Then there's lifestyle.
Here there's no Costco so I'm not hauling bags and bags of groceries at one time.
Also I live in the neighborhood where I work so my commute is only about 10 minutes.
That's the perfect range for one of these bikes.
If you had an hour commute like many people in the US, you'd never be able to take the bike since the average charge seems to get me through about 45ish minutes before I really need to recharge.
That's with peddling to help out the battery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30998748</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>Shane A Leslie</author>
	<datestamp>1265138100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Per gallon vs load vs distance traveled; single stroke engines with a fuel/oil mix in the tank ARE worse than modern SUVs - they are essentially chainsaw or lawnmower engines.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Per gallon vs load vs distance traveled ; single stroke engines with a fuel/oil mix in the tank ARE worse than modern SUVs - they are essentially chainsaw or lawnmower engines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Per gallon vs load vs distance traveled; single stroke engines with a fuel/oil mix in the tank ARE worse than modern SUVs - they are essentially chainsaw or lawnmower engines.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30995064</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>tsstahl</author>
	<datestamp>1265125560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are losing all credibility.  There are those of us who cycle who recognize \_our\_ responsibility to protect ourselves.

<br> <br>Do your part to educate drivers. The next time a door opens in front of you aim for the V, not the road side.  Sure, you'll take the hit on their hood, but you have a good chance of breaking the car driver's left leg in the process.
<br> <br>Or you could hang out on slashdot and sling obscenities.  Kind of the net version of hanging out in tree-tops, shouting out rude names.
<br> <br>And no, I am not really advocating injuring people on purpose.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are losing all credibility .
There are those of us who cycle who recognize \ _our \ _ responsibility to protect ourselves .
Do your part to educate drivers .
The next time a door opens in front of you aim for the V , not the road side .
Sure , you 'll take the hit on their hood , but you have a good chance of breaking the car driver 's left leg in the process .
Or you could hang out on slashdot and sling obscenities .
Kind of the net version of hanging out in tree-tops , shouting out rude names .
And no , I am not really advocating injuring people on purpose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are losing all credibility.
There are those of us who cycle who recognize \_our\_ responsibility to protect ourselves.
Do your part to educate drivers.
The next time a door opens in front of you aim for the V, not the road side.
Sure, you'll take the hit on their hood, but you have a good chance of breaking the car driver's left leg in the process.
Or you could hang out on slashdot and sling obscenities.
Kind of the net version of hanging out in tree-tops, shouting out rude names.
And no, I am not really advocating injuring people on purpose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31000656</id>
	<title>Re:Energy</title>
	<author>thistle</author>
	<datestamp>1265102940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't have a reference handy but there was a study of total caloric output (aka exercise) for users of electric bikes vs. traditional bikes. The average energy output per week was higher for the electric bike population. This counter-intuitive result was because the bike was used for more trips. Every rider is going to choose bike vs. car based primarily on a personal time/effort/distance judgement. An electric assist bike ends up getting chosen for a far higher percentage of these trips than a traditional bike. The end result is that electric bike riders burn more calories over a given period of time than traditional bike riders simply because they are going to be riding more often.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have a reference handy but there was a study of total caloric output ( aka exercise ) for users of electric bikes vs. traditional bikes .
The average energy output per week was higher for the electric bike population .
This counter-intuitive result was because the bike was used for more trips .
Every rider is going to choose bike vs. car based primarily on a personal time/effort/distance judgement .
An electric assist bike ends up getting chosen for a far higher percentage of these trips than a traditional bike .
The end result is that electric bike riders burn more calories over a given period of time than traditional bike riders simply because they are going to be riding more often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have a reference handy but there was a study of total caloric output (aka exercise) for users of electric bikes vs. traditional bikes.
The average energy output per week was higher for the electric bike population.
This counter-intuitive result was because the bike was used for more trips.
Every rider is going to choose bike vs. car based primarily on a personal time/effort/distance judgement.
An electric assist bike ends up getting chosen for a far higher percentage of these trips than a traditional bike.
The end result is that electric bike riders burn more calories over a given period of time than traditional bike riders simply because they are going to be riding more often.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992060</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>bflong</author>
	<datestamp>1265051640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not familiar with the sad situation you relate, but I do not believe it has anything to do with the parent comment. Also, I have noticed that at least half of the bicyclists in my area do not obey traffic laws in any form, and the rest obey them sporadically. They don't stay on their side of the road. They don't signal. They don't maintain safe distances. They cut traffic off. The list goes on. Many of the offenders are "professional" riders too. They compete at the local velodrome. They have friken sponsors. Hence, they should know better. When one of these idiots dies, and leaves behind a grieving family and friends, I feel bad for the survivors. However, any anger I have goes right to the idiot who got run over by the 18 wheeler because he did something stupid, not the poor truck driver who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and now has the face of said idiot burned into his mind for the rest of his life. Just because the bicyclist lost the fight with the truck does not mean it's not his fault.</p><p>Really, that's what makes people feel anger toward bicyclists. We all know how we would feel if we were that truck driver. The deceased problems are over. The survivors, including the driver, have to live with it. There is a lot more to weigh down on you then traffic tickets in that situation. I know that if some stupid bicyclist would run a stop sign around a blind corner and I hit and killed him, I would feel absolutely horrible for a long, long time. It doesn't matter who's fault it is. You feel horrible unless you're dead.</p><p>The article you mentioned seems to indicate the parents of that 7 year old were not at fault for the accident, but rather the driver was. That's a sad situation, and I would have fully expected the driver to face charges. Definitely a break down of justice in that case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not familiar with the sad situation you relate , but I do not believe it has anything to do with the parent comment .
Also , I have noticed that at least half of the bicyclists in my area do not obey traffic laws in any form , and the rest obey them sporadically .
They do n't stay on their side of the road .
They do n't signal .
They do n't maintain safe distances .
They cut traffic off .
The list goes on .
Many of the offenders are " professional " riders too .
They compete at the local velodrome .
They have friken sponsors .
Hence , they should know better .
When one of these idiots dies , and leaves behind a grieving family and friends , I feel bad for the survivors .
However , any anger I have goes right to the idiot who got run over by the 18 wheeler because he did something stupid , not the poor truck driver who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and now has the face of said idiot burned into his mind for the rest of his life .
Just because the bicyclist lost the fight with the truck does not mean it 's not his fault.Really , that 's what makes people feel anger toward bicyclists .
We all know how we would feel if we were that truck driver .
The deceased problems are over .
The survivors , including the driver , have to live with it .
There is a lot more to weigh down on you then traffic tickets in that situation .
I know that if some stupid bicyclist would run a stop sign around a blind corner and I hit and killed him , I would feel absolutely horrible for a long , long time .
It does n't matter who 's fault it is .
You feel horrible unless you 're dead.The article you mentioned seems to indicate the parents of that 7 year old were not at fault for the accident , but rather the driver was .
That 's a sad situation , and I would have fully expected the driver to face charges .
Definitely a break down of justice in that case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not familiar with the sad situation you relate, but I do not believe it has anything to do with the parent comment.
Also, I have noticed that at least half of the bicyclists in my area do not obey traffic laws in any form, and the rest obey them sporadically.
They don't stay on their side of the road.
They don't signal.
They don't maintain safe distances.
They cut traffic off.
The list goes on.
Many of the offenders are "professional" riders too.
They compete at the local velodrome.
They have friken sponsors.
Hence, they should know better.
When one of these idiots dies, and leaves behind a grieving family and friends, I feel bad for the survivors.
However, any anger I have goes right to the idiot who got run over by the 18 wheeler because he did something stupid, not the poor truck driver who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and now has the face of said idiot burned into his mind for the rest of his life.
Just because the bicyclist lost the fight with the truck does not mean it's not his fault.Really, that's what makes people feel anger toward bicyclists.
We all know how we would feel if we were that truck driver.
The deceased problems are over.
The survivors, including the driver, have to live with it.
There is a lot more to weigh down on you then traffic tickets in that situation.
I know that if some stupid bicyclist would run a stop sign around a blind corner and I hit and killed him, I would feel absolutely horrible for a long, long time.
It doesn't matter who's fault it is.
You feel horrible unless you're dead.The article you mentioned seems to indicate the parents of that 7 year old were not at fault for the accident, but rather the driver was.
That's a sad situation, and I would have fully expected the driver to face charges.
Definitely a break down of justice in that case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</id>
	<title>pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1265048700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a bicyclist (and driver.  Remember that- most of us who ride our bikes ALSO DRIVE), I find it very difficult to sympathize with your viewpoint.

</p><p>When is the last time you read, "motorist killed by bicyclist"?  Bicyclists always lose in car-vs-bicyclist.

</p><p>Now, look at the face of cyclist road deaths: <a href="http://www.austin360.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/fitcity/entries/2009/10/08/7yearold\_loses\_parents\_in\_cycl.html" title="austin360.com" rel="nofollow">Kylie Bruehler, orphaned when both her parents were struck by a truck</a> [austin360.com].  Go on, <a href="http://www.mysanantonio.com/slideshows/Cyclists\_Ride\_to\_Bruehler\_Memorial\_Service\_.html" title="mysanantonio.com" rel="nofollow">LOOK</a> [mysanantonio.com], Mr. Self Righteous.  Look at the face of a 7 year old girl as she buries her parents.  Look at her grandfather walk down the line of hundreds of cyclists who showed up to honor them.

</p><p>Do you know what usually happens when a motorist kills a cyclist?  <a href="http://www.bicyclelaw.com/news/n.cfm/driver-rebuts-suit-in-cyclists-deaths" title="bicyclelaw.com" rel="nofollow">Absolutely nothing</a> [bicyclelaw.com]- and this case is not the exception but the rule.  Time and time again the cyclist community fumes when another person is struck simply because the driver wasn't paying attention to where they were going, the police call it a "terrible accident", and the driver walks off without so much as a manslaughter charge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a bicyclist ( and driver .
Remember that- most of us who ride our bikes ALSO DRIVE ) , I find it very difficult to sympathize with your viewpoint .
When is the last time you read , " motorist killed by bicyclist " ?
Bicyclists always lose in car-vs-bicyclist .
Now , look at the face of cyclist road deaths : Kylie Bruehler , orphaned when both her parents were struck by a truck [ austin360.com ] .
Go on , LOOK [ mysanantonio.com ] , Mr. Self Righteous .
Look at the face of a 7 year old girl as she buries her parents .
Look at her grandfather walk down the line of hundreds of cyclists who showed up to honor them .
Do you know what usually happens when a motorist kills a cyclist ?
Absolutely nothing [ bicyclelaw.com ] - and this case is not the exception but the rule .
Time and time again the cyclist community fumes when another person is struck simply because the driver was n't paying attention to where they were going , the police call it a " terrible accident " , and the driver walks off without so much as a manslaughter charge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a bicyclist (and driver.
Remember that- most of us who ride our bikes ALSO DRIVE), I find it very difficult to sympathize with your viewpoint.
When is the last time you read, "motorist killed by bicyclist"?
Bicyclists always lose in car-vs-bicyclist.
Now, look at the face of cyclist road deaths: Kylie Bruehler, orphaned when both her parents were struck by a truck [austin360.com].
Go on, LOOK [mysanantonio.com], Mr. Self Righteous.
Look at the face of a 7 year old girl as she buries her parents.
Look at her grandfather walk down the line of hundreds of cyclists who showed up to honor them.
Do you know what usually happens when a motorist kills a cyclist?
Absolutely nothing [bicyclelaw.com]- and this case is not the exception but the rule.
Time and time again the cyclist community fumes when another person is struck simply because the driver wasn't paying attention to where they were going, the police call it a "terrible accident", and the driver walks off without so much as a manslaughter charge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992138</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1265052660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.</p></div></blockquote><p>Good equipment helps. This is one of the reasons I'm not really big on e-bike conversions which take a conventional frame and add a 750W or larger motor with no other modifications -- particularly if it ever might spend time on trails, a powerful ebike should have a frame designed for the forces it's going to be handling; forks, shocks and brakes from the downhill racing market; and a low center of gravity to keep the whole thing maneuverable (some manufacturers put the battery up on the rear rack behind the seatpost; ugh!)</p><blockquote><div><p>The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow, and sometime I need to go very fast. A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.</p></div></blockquote><p>Unless your battery is dead (in which case you're pulling some dead weight along with you -- but nothing horrid), there's nothing making a leg-based sprint any harder on an e-bike than it is on any other pedal-powered vehicle; to the contrary, it's much, much easier to keep up a sprint when there's an extra 650W added to the output from your legs.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>There have been a few idiotic designs in the past that interpreted the laws in such a way as to automatically enable regenerative braking over 20mph. These are no longer made.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.Good equipment helps .
This is one of the reasons I 'm not really big on e-bike conversions which take a conventional frame and add a 750W or larger motor with no other modifications -- particularly if it ever might spend time on trails , a powerful ebike should have a frame designed for the forces it 's going to be handling ; forks , shocks and brakes from the downhill racing market ; and a low center of gravity to keep the whole thing maneuverable ( some manufacturers put the battery up on the rear rack behind the seatpost ; ugh !
) The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow , and sometime I need to go very fast .
A power limited electric motor ca n't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.Unless your battery is dead ( in which case you 're pulling some dead weight along with you -- but nothing horrid ) , there 's nothing making a leg-based sprint any harder on an e-bike than it is on any other pedal-powered vehicle ; to the contrary , it 's much , much easier to keep up a sprint when there 's an extra 650W added to the output from your legs .
: ) There have been a few idiotic designs in the past that interpreted the laws in such a way as to automatically enable regenerative braking over 20mph .
These are no longer made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.Good equipment helps.
This is one of the reasons I'm not really big on e-bike conversions which take a conventional frame and add a 750W or larger motor with no other modifications -- particularly if it ever might spend time on trails, a powerful ebike should have a frame designed for the forces it's going to be handling; forks, shocks and brakes from the downhill racing market; and a low center of gravity to keep the whole thing maneuverable (some manufacturers put the battery up on the rear rack behind the seatpost; ugh!
)The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow, and sometime I need to go very fast.
A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.Unless your battery is dead (in which case you're pulling some dead weight along with you -- but nothing horrid), there's nothing making a leg-based sprint any harder on an e-bike than it is on any other pedal-powered vehicle; to the contrary, it's much, much easier to keep up a sprint when there's an extra 650W added to the output from your legs.
:)There have been a few idiotic designs in the past that interpreted the laws in such a way as to automatically enable regenerative braking over 20mph.
These are no longer made.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993928</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>cptdondo</author>
	<datestamp>1265119080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you said plus....</p><p>Most bicycle commuters are experienced riders; if not, they ride pretty slowly.  I ride 9 miles one way and it takes me about 35 minutes give or take.</p><p>An electric bike can do 12 - 20 MPH and the rider is typically not paying much attention.  This is a deadly combination; you have a fast moving vehicle in a mixed use bike/pedestrian path with an unlicensed (typically) inexperienced driver.</p><p>I've had to swerve around kids, dogs, leashes, grandmas, you name it.  Powered vehicles don't mix.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you said plus....Most bicycle commuters are experienced riders ; if not , they ride pretty slowly .
I ride 9 miles one way and it takes me about 35 minutes give or take.An electric bike can do 12 - 20 MPH and the rider is typically not paying much attention .
This is a deadly combination ; you have a fast moving vehicle in a mixed use bike/pedestrian path with an unlicensed ( typically ) inexperienced driver.I 've had to swerve around kids , dogs , leashes , grandmas , you name it .
Powered vehicles do n't mix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you said plus....Most bicycle commuters are experienced riders; if not, they ride pretty slowly.
I ride 9 miles one way and it takes me about 35 minutes give or take.An electric bike can do 12 - 20 MPH and the rider is typically not paying much attention.
This is a deadly combination; you have a fast moving vehicle in a mixed use bike/pedestrian path with an unlicensed (typically) inexperienced driver.I've had to swerve around kids, dogs, leashes, grandmas, you name it.
Powered vehicles don't mix.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992074</id>
	<title>Re:Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1265051820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not 100\% sure, but I'd bet this is retaliation for the Chinese Steel subsidies/trade practices. I believe American and European manufacturers are not allowed to buy steel in China or in Chinese-controlled markets. In other words, the price Chinese bicycle manufacturers are paying for steel is artificially low and could be considered by some as an unfair manufacturing advantage. </p><p>That being said, this is just speculation on my part. The Steel thing is real. Many industries that rely on steel in the US are certainly complaining about it. But I don't really know about the rest. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not 100 \ % sure , but I 'd bet this is retaliation for the Chinese Steel subsidies/trade practices .
I believe American and European manufacturers are not allowed to buy steel in China or in Chinese-controlled markets .
In other words , the price Chinese bicycle manufacturers are paying for steel is artificially low and could be considered by some as an unfair manufacturing advantage .
That being said , this is just speculation on my part .
The Steel thing is real .
Many industries that rely on steel in the US are certainly complaining about it .
But I do n't really know about the rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not 100\% sure, but I'd bet this is retaliation for the Chinese Steel subsidies/trade practices.
I believe American and European manufacturers are not allowed to buy steel in China or in Chinese-controlled markets.
In other words, the price Chinese bicycle manufacturers are paying for steel is artificially low and could be considered by some as an unfair manufacturing advantage.
That being said, this is just speculation on my part.
The Steel thing is real.
Many industries that rely on steel in the US are certainly complaining about it.
But I don't really know about the rest. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991666</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265046660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm sure electric bikes have a use but I always feel a bit sad when I see a twenty-something dude riding an electric bike whilst I scoot past on my pushbike. O and transportation planners - don't get me started! In my town to satisfy a push for more cycle paths they simply painted a picture of a white cycle at the head of all the sidewalks . . . chaos and injury ensued. No back tracking though - just some back-slapping about implementing a 'green' transportation policy!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure electric bikes have a use but I always feel a bit sad when I see a twenty-something dude riding an electric bike whilst I scoot past on my pushbike .
O and transportation planners - do n't get me started !
In my town to satisfy a push for more cycle paths they simply painted a picture of a white cycle at the head of all the sidewalks .
. .
chaos and injury ensued .
No back tracking though - just some back-slapping about implementing a 'green ' transportation policy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure electric bikes have a use but I always feel a bit sad when I see a twenty-something dude riding an electric bike whilst I scoot past on my pushbike.
O and transportation planners - don't get me started!
In my town to satisfy a push for more cycle paths they simply painted a picture of a white cycle at the head of all the sidewalks .
. .
chaos and injury ensued.
No back tracking though - just some back-slapping about implementing a 'green' transportation policy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991602</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30995316</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>rich\_r</author>
	<datestamp>1265126520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists? Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.</p></div>  </blockquote><p>
Then they're travelling too close. Or, to quote my riding instructor - 'only a cunt hits the car in front'.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to " scare " cyclists ?
Two of them could n't stop in time , and they smashed into his back window .
Then they 're travelling too close .
Or , to quote my riding instructor - 'only a cunt hits the car in front' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists?
Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.
Then they're travelling too close.
Or, to quote my riding instructor - 'only a cunt hits the car in front'.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30995512</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>mdarksbane</author>
	<datestamp>1265127300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honestly, I feel the same way driving a coupe. If an SUV or a tractor trailer decides to pull into my lane without checking their blind spot, I'm toast. I've ended up literally with parts of a semi trailer *over* the front of my car before.</p><p>The best way to view this is that there is always someone else on the road who is going to do something stupid, and even if one of you end up worse for the encounter... it's still a really bad situation to be in knowing that you killed someone's mom through your negligence, or having to pay thousands of dollars in a settlement. One either side of the debate, you can't control the other idiots on the road. You can control yourself. Stay out of people blind spots, watch for doors opening and people pulling out of driveways, pull to the edge of the road as a slow vehicle or bike to let people pass... there are a lot of things people can do to make themselves safer without bitching about everyone driving around them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , I feel the same way driving a coupe .
If an SUV or a tractor trailer decides to pull into my lane without checking their blind spot , I 'm toast .
I 've ended up literally with parts of a semi trailer * over * the front of my car before.The best way to view this is that there is always someone else on the road who is going to do something stupid , and even if one of you end up worse for the encounter... it 's still a really bad situation to be in knowing that you killed someone 's mom through your negligence , or having to pay thousands of dollars in a settlement .
One either side of the debate , you ca n't control the other idiots on the road .
You can control yourself .
Stay out of people blind spots , watch for doors opening and people pulling out of driveways , pull to the edge of the road as a slow vehicle or bike to let people pass... there are a lot of things people can do to make themselves safer without bitching about everyone driving around them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, I feel the same way driving a coupe.
If an SUV or a tractor trailer decides to pull into my lane without checking their blind spot, I'm toast.
I've ended up literally with parts of a semi trailer *over* the front of my car before.The best way to view this is that there is always someone else on the road who is going to do something stupid, and even if one of you end up worse for the encounter... it's still a really bad situation to be in knowing that you killed someone's mom through your negligence, or having to pay thousands of dollars in a settlement.
One either side of the debate, you can't control the other idiots on the road.
You can control yourself.
Stay out of people blind spots, watch for doors opening and people pulling out of driveways, pull to the edge of the road as a slow vehicle or bike to let people pass... there are a lot of things people can do to make themselves safer without bitching about everyone driving around them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991824</id>
	<title>in japan...</title>
	<author>biggknifeparty</author>
	<datestamp>1265048460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Almost every Japanese senior citizen rides one of these... surprisingly fast.   They're expensive too there, like $700 dollars.  Also, they don't lock them up because generally in Japan people don't steal things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Almost every Japanese senior citizen rides one of these... surprisingly fast .
They 're expensive too there , like $ 700 dollars .
Also , they do n't lock them up because generally in Japan people do n't steal things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Almost every Japanese senior citizen rides one of these... surprisingly fast.
They're expensive too there, like $700 dollars.
Also, they don't lock them up because generally in Japan people don't steal things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991642</id>
	<title>Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1265046480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who spends a week each year in Shanghai, this is nothing special. These bikes are nasty rusty things. Often found in shades of silver and brown with broken seats and bent baskets. The owners don't understand the concept of pride in their own possessions. I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American. In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.</p><p>Oh, and for all you living in Shanghai, could you PLEASE for the love of God, change your moped brake pads? That high pitched squealing makes my ears ring<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-p.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who spends a week each year in Shanghai , this is nothing special .
These bikes are nasty rusty things .
Often found in shades of silver and brown with broken seats and bent baskets .
The owners do n't understand the concept of pride in their own possessions .
I find this behavior quite foreign to me , but I suppose that 's because I 'm an American .
In short , leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.Oh , and for all you living in Shanghai , could you PLEASE for the love of God , change your moped brake pads ?
That high pitched squealing makes my ears ring : -p .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who spends a week each year in Shanghai, this is nothing special.
These bikes are nasty rusty things.
Often found in shades of silver and brown with broken seats and bent baskets.
The owners don't understand the concept of pride in their own possessions.
I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American.
In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.Oh, and for all you living in Shanghai, could you PLEASE for the love of God, change your moped brake pads?
That high pitched squealing makes my ears ring :-p.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994180</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1265121000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is why you should support stricter fines and laws against hitting a cyclist with a car.</p><p>mandatory 30 days in jail and  all liability to the medical bills of the cyclist might get idiot drivers looking for and paying attention to bikes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is why you should support stricter fines and laws against hitting a cyclist with a car.mandatory 30 days in jail and all liability to the medical bills of the cyclist might get idiot drivers looking for and paying attention to bikes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is why you should support stricter fines and laws against hitting a cyclist with a car.mandatory 30 days in jail and  all liability to the medical bills of the cyclist might get idiot drivers looking for and paying attention to bikes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992656</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992268</id>
	<title>Re:Energy</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1265140920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise, not less, and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea. It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.</p></div></blockquote><p>Joe Blow is 350 lbs and can barely walk to his car without having a stroke. He's not going to get on a bike to drive a mile to the store. He's going to take the car.</p><p>Now, if Joe Blow can get to the store and back on his electrical assist bike, he might be inclined to take the bike instead of the car.</p><p>A little bit of exercise is a LOT better than no exercise. And as the small amounts of exercise slowly weans him from 350 to 340 lbs, he'll be in better shape and can do even more exercise.</p><p>Personally, in this weather I'd love to have an electrical assist bike. It's 26C below freezing (-15F), and to get back home from the store (2 km total), I need to get up a 40 meter climb over a 500 meter distance (8\% average incline). Now, I'm not in very good shape as it is, and with this kind of cold, I need to wear a balaclava. Even in the lowest gear I have (2.5:1), my heart rate hits 175 bpm. That's not because I'm in horrible shape, but because my breath freezes solid on the balaclava, making it REALLY difficult to breathe. Electrical assist would make it a lot easier.</p><p>But I'm sure you're right. The electrical bike is only interesting for fat ass people who can't sit on a bike without crushing it. They'd never ever be interesting for those of us who actually like riding a bike and would like to get even further about. Possibly allowing us to commute long distances without being soaked with sweat.</p><p>The interesting thing about the electrical assist bikes is that if I'm usually using a 1,100 kcal for an 18 km ride and the electrical assist can provide me with the equivalent of 2,200 kcal, I would now be able to do at least 50 km while using the same amount of fat-energy. It might not get my heart rate up as high, but at least I'll know that if I pretty much die from exhaustion, I'm not stuck in the middle of nowhere until I recuperate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise , not less , and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea .
It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.Joe Blow is 350 lbs and can barely walk to his car without having a stroke .
He 's not going to get on a bike to drive a mile to the store .
He 's going to take the car.Now , if Joe Blow can get to the store and back on his electrical assist bike , he might be inclined to take the bike instead of the car.A little bit of exercise is a LOT better than no exercise .
And as the small amounts of exercise slowly weans him from 350 to 340 lbs , he 'll be in better shape and can do even more exercise.Personally , in this weather I 'd love to have an electrical assist bike .
It 's 26C below freezing ( -15F ) , and to get back home from the store ( 2 km total ) , I need to get up a 40 meter climb over a 500 meter distance ( 8 \ % average incline ) .
Now , I 'm not in very good shape as it is , and with this kind of cold , I need to wear a balaclava .
Even in the lowest gear I have ( 2.5 : 1 ) , my heart rate hits 175 bpm .
That 's not because I 'm in horrible shape , but because my breath freezes solid on the balaclava , making it REALLY difficult to breathe .
Electrical assist would make it a lot easier.But I 'm sure you 're right .
The electrical bike is only interesting for fat ass people who ca n't sit on a bike without crushing it .
They 'd never ever be interesting for those of us who actually like riding a bike and would like to get even further about .
Possibly allowing us to commute long distances without being soaked with sweat.The interesting thing about the electrical assist bikes is that if I 'm usually using a 1,100 kcal for an 18 km ride and the electrical assist can provide me with the equivalent of 2,200 kcal , I would now be able to do at least 50 km while using the same amount of fat-energy .
It might not get my heart rate up as high , but at least I 'll know that if I pretty much die from exhaustion , I 'm not stuck in the middle of nowhere until I recuperate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise, not less, and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea.
It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.Joe Blow is 350 lbs and can barely walk to his car without having a stroke.
He's not going to get on a bike to drive a mile to the store.
He's going to take the car.Now, if Joe Blow can get to the store and back on his electrical assist bike, he might be inclined to take the bike instead of the car.A little bit of exercise is a LOT better than no exercise.
And as the small amounts of exercise slowly weans him from 350 to 340 lbs, he'll be in better shape and can do even more exercise.Personally, in this weather I'd love to have an electrical assist bike.
It's 26C below freezing (-15F), and to get back home from the store (2 km total), I need to get up a 40 meter climb over a 500 meter distance (8\% average incline).
Now, I'm not in very good shape as it is, and with this kind of cold, I need to wear a balaclava.
Even in the lowest gear I have (2.5:1), my heart rate hits 175 bpm.
That's not because I'm in horrible shape, but because my breath freezes solid on the balaclava, making it REALLY difficult to breathe.
Electrical assist would make it a lot easier.But I'm sure you're right.
The electrical bike is only interesting for fat ass people who can't sit on a bike without crushing it.
They'd never ever be interesting for those of us who actually like riding a bike and would like to get even further about.
Possibly allowing us to commute long distances without being soaked with sweat.The interesting thing about the electrical assist bikes is that if I'm usually using a 1,100 kcal for an 18 km ride and the electrical assist can provide me with the equivalent of 2,200 kcal, I would now be able to do at least 50 km while using the same amount of fat-energy.
It might not get my heart rate up as high, but at least I'll know that if I pretty much die from exhaustion, I'm not stuck in the middle of nowhere until I recuperate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31000576</id>
	<title>Re:in japan...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265102520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having a mandatory bike registry and wheel locks helps that a bit.  Some Japanese people are not averse to stealing wallets or a sweet clip-on bike lamp, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having a mandatory bike registry and wheel locks helps that a bit .
Some Japanese people are not averse to stealing wallets or a sweet clip-on bike lamp , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having a mandatory bike registry and wheel locks helps that a bit.
Some Japanese people are not averse to stealing wallets or a sweet clip-on bike lamp, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30997600</id>
	<title>Oxford England</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265134140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of my favourite things about Oxford in the UK is the fact that everyone seems to cycle around.  The fact that everyone does it and it's so costly to park a car in the city made me restore my old bike and I can't get enough of cycling now!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of my favourite things about Oxford in the UK is the fact that everyone seems to cycle around .
The fact that everyone does it and it 's so costly to park a car in the city made me restore my old bike and I ca n't get enough of cycling now !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of my favourite things about Oxford in the UK is the fact that everyone seems to cycle around.
The fact that everyone does it and it's so costly to park a car in the city made me restore my old bike and I can't get enough of cycling now!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992658</id>
	<title>Re:I ride an e-bike in China</title>
	<author>enigmatichmachine</author>
	<datestamp>1265103900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They work in the US too.<br>I live in the suburbs,  I ride my bike up to my house, then into the yard, then in the back door, then stop in the bedroom and plug it in. I have a higher end model(1500w motor) and I commute 5 miles each way to San Francisco daily. the bike is faster than driving, and I've never ran out of juice, and I can tell down to the mile when I'll run out due to the very accurate power meter. I"m sure the bike would be stolen in 5 minutes were I ever to leave it outside, but it spends the day in my office and night in my bedroom.</p><p>I believe the trick with E-bikes is that everyone may or  may not be able to use one, depending on their individual circumstances. You need:<br>1. A place to park it  safely indoors at night<br>2. a place to park at your destination<br>3. no stairs<br>4. less than 10 miles each way of commute<br>5. willingness to deal with weather and assholes and danger.<br>That all said, I'll be donning helmet, rain gear, and gloves tomorrow morning.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They work in the US too.I live in the suburbs , I ride my bike up to my house , then into the yard , then in the back door , then stop in the bedroom and plug it in .
I have a higher end model ( 1500w motor ) and I commute 5 miles each way to San Francisco daily .
the bike is faster than driving , and I 've never ran out of juice , and I can tell down to the mile when I 'll run out due to the very accurate power meter .
I " m sure the bike would be stolen in 5 minutes were I ever to leave it outside , but it spends the day in my office and night in my bedroom.I believe the trick with E-bikes is that everyone may or may not be able to use one , depending on their individual circumstances .
You need : 1 .
A place to park it safely indoors at night2 .
a place to park at your destination3 .
no stairs4 .
less than 10 miles each way of commute5 .
willingness to deal with weather and assholes and danger.That all said , I 'll be donning helmet , rain gear , and gloves tomorrow morning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They work in the US too.I live in the suburbs,  I ride my bike up to my house, then into the yard, then in the back door, then stop in the bedroom and plug it in.
I have a higher end model(1500w motor) and I commute 5 miles each way to San Francisco daily.
the bike is faster than driving, and I've never ran out of juice, and I can tell down to the mile when I'll run out due to the very accurate power meter.
I"m sure the bike would be stolen in 5 minutes were I ever to leave it outside, but it spends the day in my office and night in my bedroom.I believe the trick with E-bikes is that everyone may or  may not be able to use one, depending on their individual circumstances.
You need:1.
A place to park it  safely indoors at night2.
a place to park at your destination3.
no stairs4.
less than 10 miles each way of commute5.
willingness to deal with weather and assholes and danger.That all said, I'll be donning helmet, rain gear, and gloves tomorrow morning.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992244</id>
	<title>Netherlands</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265054160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in the netherlands and i almost never see an electric bicycle i think these numbers aren't completly true</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in the netherlands and i almost never see an electric bicycle i think these numbers are n't completly true</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in the netherlands and i almost never see an electric bicycle i think these numbers aren't completly true</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31045588</id>
	<title>I wanted to switch to bike travel for the longest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265472780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...time, but in my East Coast city, with it's hills and curves, as well as mix of urban one-way grids and wide blvd's, combined with an at the time 10mi one way communte, I didn't want to chacne arriving at work smelling like Thor, then riding home in the driving rain. Only recently did my lcoal PT (one of the largest in the country) install bike racks on its buses, and it still doesn't allow bikes on trains during rush hour (yes they are that dumb -- they encourage car use, really), so mixed mode only recently became an option. The best option I could see was an electric bike. It would allow cheap, Earth friendly travel, without the extreme exertion -- and sweating.</p><p>I looked seriously at electric bikes, but most I saw were either not cheap kits I had to install myself, which I balked at, or prebuilt bikes that were expensive and either looked like circus bikes, or something left by aliens. I refused to look like a goober while riding my bike. Fine for ex-hippies but not if I have to pay for it. So I waited and figured someone would sell something for the rest of us. And I continued to drive my not very Earth friendly European sedan.</p><p>While lounging on the couch watching the FineLiving Channel, I saw a piece on a electric assisted mountain bike and perked up. I watched for the next 10 or so minutes a report about exactly the product I'd been waiting for, the Wave Crest<a href="http://www.nycewheels.com/wavecrest.html" title="nycewheels.com" rel="nofollow"> TIDALFORCE</a> [nycewheels.com] electric bike. I looked like a real bike with the batteries and motor in the wheel hubs, and it was on a regular bike frame. And better yet it was silent ( or nearly so). I couldn't buy one fast enough! When I went to the website the next Monday at work, the price slowed me down. $2500. I decided to wait a few or 6 months to see if the price went down.</p><p>After forgetting and remembering about a year later, I rechecked the website. Apparently I waited too long and the company stopped selling due to poor sales. All products, equipment, and lic. sold to a French company. I'm sure they have no intentino of selling any products in the US. What was worse, the few used and new units still in channels we often selling for higher prices than new -- the cheapest complete bike I found was $2700. Broken and incomplete examples could be had for anywhere from $1500 - $2000 on Ebay. Once again I gave up.</p><p>Walmart began selling cheap electric bikes, some as low as $200. I was prepared to pick on up, even at the cost of having to ride around with a brick of batteries on a bike rack, but after waiting a weekend to buy off the website, they were all gone. As if they never exhisted. What gives?</p><p>Finally, last Spring, while trolling the web for excitment I came across <a href="http://www.epluselectricbike.com/" title="epluselectricbike.com" rel="nofollow">E+ Motion Systems</a> [epluselectricbike.com]. They apparenly have resurrected the Tidal Force name, and engineering, added thier own, and are reselling bikes and add-on kits. I happily picked up a kit ( I am a cheao bastard after all), installed it, and haven't looked back. It was as easy as installing two wheels and the connected wire, and done. Reading the instructions took longer than the install.</p><p>My bike commute in the morning including putting the bike on the front of a bus (<a href="http://www.septa.org/" title="septa.org" rel="nofollow">crappy PT that doesn't allow bike on trains</a> [septa.org]) is only 10 minutes longer than driving. I let the bike do almost all of the work going in, so no sweating, and oddly less stressful. Coming home I could actually use the <a href="http://www.schuylkillbanks.org/home.aspx" title="schuylkillbanks.org" rel="nofollow">bike path</a> [schuylkillbanks.org] recently finshed, and the out-ride, in the same direction as rush hour traffic, took between 15mins, and 30, depending on whether I pedalled, the bike dragged by fat ass, or whe shared the load. I must say the bike tops out at 20MPH on cruise control, and I know I could push 25 easily pedalling. Not a big issue. I'd have been ecstatic to average 20MPH on the Expressway at the say time of day, or even during daylight hours! Saved gas and wear and tear alone for the summer recouped a good portion of the kit cos</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...time , but in my East Coast city , with it 's hills and curves , as well as mix of urban one-way grids and wide blvd 's , combined with an at the time 10mi one way communte , I did n't want to chacne arriving at work smelling like Thor , then riding home in the driving rain .
Only recently did my lcoal PT ( one of the largest in the country ) install bike racks on its buses , and it still does n't allow bikes on trains during rush hour ( yes they are that dumb -- they encourage car use , really ) , so mixed mode only recently became an option .
The best option I could see was an electric bike .
It would allow cheap , Earth friendly travel , without the extreme exertion -- and sweating.I looked seriously at electric bikes , but most I saw were either not cheap kits I had to install myself , which I balked at , or prebuilt bikes that were expensive and either looked like circus bikes , or something left by aliens .
I refused to look like a goober while riding my bike .
Fine for ex-hippies but not if I have to pay for it .
So I waited and figured someone would sell something for the rest of us .
And I continued to drive my not very Earth friendly European sedan.While lounging on the couch watching the FineLiving Channel , I saw a piece on a electric assisted mountain bike and perked up .
I watched for the next 10 or so minutes a report about exactly the product I 'd been waiting for , the Wave Crest TIDALFORCE [ nycewheels.com ] electric bike .
I looked like a real bike with the batteries and motor in the wheel hubs , and it was on a regular bike frame .
And better yet it was silent ( or nearly so ) .
I could n't buy one fast enough !
When I went to the website the next Monday at work , the price slowed me down .
$ 2500. I decided to wait a few or 6 months to see if the price went down.After forgetting and remembering about a year later , I rechecked the website .
Apparently I waited too long and the company stopped selling due to poor sales .
All products , equipment , and lic .
sold to a French company .
I 'm sure they have no intentino of selling any products in the US .
What was worse , the few used and new units still in channels we often selling for higher prices than new -- the cheapest complete bike I found was $ 2700 .
Broken and incomplete examples could be had for anywhere from $ 1500 - $ 2000 on Ebay .
Once again I gave up.Walmart began selling cheap electric bikes , some as low as $ 200 .
I was prepared to pick on up , even at the cost of having to ride around with a brick of batteries on a bike rack , but after waiting a weekend to buy off the website , they were all gone .
As if they never exhisted .
What gives ? Finally , last Spring , while trolling the web for excitment I came across E + Motion Systems [ epluselectricbike.com ] .
They apparenly have resurrected the Tidal Force name , and engineering , added thier own , and are reselling bikes and add-on kits .
I happily picked up a kit ( I am a cheao bastard after all ) , installed it , and have n't looked back .
It was as easy as installing two wheels and the connected wire , and done .
Reading the instructions took longer than the install.My bike commute in the morning including putting the bike on the front of a bus ( crappy PT that does n't allow bike on trains [ septa.org ] ) is only 10 minutes longer than driving .
I let the bike do almost all of the work going in , so no sweating , and oddly less stressful .
Coming home I could actually use the bike path [ schuylkillbanks.org ] recently finshed , and the out-ride , in the same direction as rush hour traffic , took between 15mins , and 30 , depending on whether I pedalled , the bike dragged by fat ass , or whe shared the load .
I must say the bike tops out at 20MPH on cruise control , and I know I could push 25 easily pedalling .
Not a big issue .
I 'd have been ecstatic to average 20MPH on the Expressway at the say time of day , or even during daylight hours !
Saved gas and wear and tear alone for the summer recouped a good portion of the kit cos</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...time, but in my East Coast city, with it's hills and curves, as well as mix of urban one-way grids and wide blvd's, combined with an at the time 10mi one way communte, I didn't want to chacne arriving at work smelling like Thor, then riding home in the driving rain.
Only recently did my lcoal PT (one of the largest in the country) install bike racks on its buses, and it still doesn't allow bikes on trains during rush hour (yes they are that dumb -- they encourage car use, really), so mixed mode only recently became an option.
The best option I could see was an electric bike.
It would allow cheap, Earth friendly travel, without the extreme exertion -- and sweating.I looked seriously at electric bikes, but most I saw were either not cheap kits I had to install myself, which I balked at, or prebuilt bikes that were expensive and either looked like circus bikes, or something left by aliens.
I refused to look like a goober while riding my bike.
Fine for ex-hippies but not if I have to pay for it.
So I waited and figured someone would sell something for the rest of us.
And I continued to drive my not very Earth friendly European sedan.While lounging on the couch watching the FineLiving Channel, I saw a piece on a electric assisted mountain bike and perked up.
I watched for the next 10 or so minutes a report about exactly the product I'd been waiting for, the Wave Crest TIDALFORCE [nycewheels.com] electric bike.
I looked like a real bike with the batteries and motor in the wheel hubs, and it was on a regular bike frame.
And better yet it was silent ( or nearly so).
I couldn't buy one fast enough!
When I went to the website the next Monday at work, the price slowed me down.
$2500. I decided to wait a few or 6 months to see if the price went down.After forgetting and remembering about a year later, I rechecked the website.
Apparently I waited too long and the company stopped selling due to poor sales.
All products, equipment, and lic.
sold to a French company.
I'm sure they have no intentino of selling any products in the US.
What was worse, the few used and new units still in channels we often selling for higher prices than new -- the cheapest complete bike I found was $2700.
Broken and incomplete examples could be had for anywhere from $1500 - $2000 on Ebay.
Once again I gave up.Walmart began selling cheap electric bikes, some as low as $200.
I was prepared to pick on up, even at the cost of having to ride around with a brick of batteries on a bike rack, but after waiting a weekend to buy off the website, they were all gone.
As if they never exhisted.
What gives?Finally, last Spring, while trolling the web for excitment I came across E+ Motion Systems [epluselectricbike.com].
They apparenly have resurrected the Tidal Force name, and engineering, added thier own, and are reselling bikes and add-on kits.
I happily picked up a kit ( I am a cheao bastard after all), installed it, and haven't looked back.
It was as easy as installing two wheels and the connected wire, and done.
Reading the instructions took longer than the install.My bike commute in the morning including putting the bike on the front of a bus (crappy PT that doesn't allow bike on trains [septa.org]) is only 10 minutes longer than driving.
I let the bike do almost all of the work going in, so no sweating, and oddly less stressful.
Coming home I could actually use the bike path [schuylkillbanks.org] recently finshed, and the out-ride, in the same direction as rush hour traffic, took between 15mins, and 30, depending on whether I pedalled, the bike dragged by fat ass, or whe shared the load.
I must say the bike tops out at 20MPH on cruise control, and I know I could push 25 easily pedalling.
Not a big issue.
I'd have been ecstatic to average 20MPH on the Expressway at the say time of day, or even during daylight hours!
Saved gas and wear and tear alone for the summer recouped a good portion of the kit cos</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30999938</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>IronChef</author>
	<datestamp>1265142960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The reason for this is that here in the US, bikes are somewhat a style thing.  If you are doing road, you have to have the $7000 carbon fiber frame... </p></div><p>Wow, it sounds like you know a lot of jerks.</p><p>I work in a high-tech office and several people commute on bikes. From what I have seen of the hardware it's about 2 beaters to one fancy model, and the fancy ones ain't carbon fiber fancy at that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason for this is that here in the US , bikes are somewhat a style thing .
If you are doing road , you have to have the $ 7000 carbon fiber frame... Wow , it sounds like you know a lot of jerks.I work in a high-tech office and several people commute on bikes .
From what I have seen of the hardware it 's about 2 beaters to one fancy model , and the fancy ones ai n't carbon fiber fancy at that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason for this is that here in the US, bikes are somewhat a style thing.
If you are doing road, you have to have the $7000 carbon fiber frame... Wow, it sounds like you know a lot of jerks.I work in a high-tech office and several people commute on bikes.
From what I have seen of the hardware it's about 2 beaters to one fancy model, and the fancy ones ain't carbon fiber fancy at that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30999192</id>
	<title>cyclists are NOT pedestrians</title>
	<author>gwolf</author>
	<datestamp>1265139780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is way unsafer than riding on the street. Why?</p><ul> <li>Hitting pedestrians is not (usually) fatal, but still, you don't want to do it. A pedestrian walks at 5Km/h tops. I usually ride at four times that speed. And you cannot ask pedestrians to expect somebody whooshing by -- You <em>can</em> expect a cyclist to be aware of faster, bigger objects.</li><li>Sidewalks' surface is -at least in my country- way less regular than the street. Hitting a 10cm hole or bump in the pavement can be quite nasty.</li><li>Cars going out of their garages are not expecting you to pass by. They usually back out a couple of meters to have good visibility of the street, and then wait more carefully. You risk being hit (or at least scared) by them.</li><li>Similar argument goes for crossing streets. Moving cars don't expect a fast object which cannot halt abruptly going by the sidewalk.</li></ul><p>There are more arguments, that's only what I could think of right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is way unsafer than riding on the street .
Why ? Hitting pedestrians is not ( usually ) fatal , but still , you do n't want to do it .
A pedestrian walks at 5Km/h tops .
I usually ride at four times that speed .
And you can not ask pedestrians to expect somebody whooshing by -- You can expect a cyclist to be aware of faster , bigger objects.Sidewalks ' surface is -at least in my country- way less regular than the street .
Hitting a 10cm hole or bump in the pavement can be quite nasty.Cars going out of their garages are not expecting you to pass by .
They usually back out a couple of meters to have good visibility of the street , and then wait more carefully .
You risk being hit ( or at least scared ) by them.Similar argument goes for crossing streets .
Moving cars do n't expect a fast object which can not halt abruptly going by the sidewalk.There are more arguments , that 's only what I could think of right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is way unsafer than riding on the street.
Why? Hitting pedestrians is not (usually) fatal, but still, you don't want to do it.
A pedestrian walks at 5Km/h tops.
I usually ride at four times that speed.
And you cannot ask pedestrians to expect somebody whooshing by -- You can expect a cyclist to be aware of faster, bigger objects.Sidewalks' surface is -at least in my country- way less regular than the street.
Hitting a 10cm hole or bump in the pavement can be quite nasty.Cars going out of their garages are not expecting you to pass by.
They usually back out a couple of meters to have good visibility of the street, and then wait more carefully.
You risk being hit (or at least scared) by them.Similar argument goes for crossing streets.
Moving cars don't expect a fast object which cannot halt abruptly going by the sidewalk.There are more arguments, that's only what I could think of right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992656</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992162</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>F34nor</author>
	<datestamp>1265053020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some important words/ides for you.</p><p>Helmet: A thing to keep your brains in your skull while on a bike, a motorcycle, skis, or during rough sex.<br>Throttle: a device to control the speed of a vehicle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some important words/ides for you.Helmet : A thing to keep your brains in your skull while on a bike , a motorcycle , skis , or during rough sex.Throttle : a device to control the speed of a vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some important words/ides for you.Helmet: A thing to keep your brains in your skull while on a bike, a motorcycle, skis, or during rough sex.Throttle: a device to control the speed of a vehicle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992906</id>
	<title>Better than dinosaur oil, but not "green".</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, while using electric bikes is leaps and bounds cleaner than using a 2-stroke engine for power (single-piston engine that burns gas AND oil, the primary technology of old, cheap, slowass mopeds and the current wave of motored bikes) I do have an issue with calling it "green" transportation. The consumption of dinosaur oil is only being displaced by equally non-green batteries. SLA batteries are still the norm. They are the common low-end of many electric bike products which will certainly sell better than NiMH, Lithium or Li-po batteries due to the cheaper upfront cost.</p><p>The granddaddy of green, short-range transportation should aim to implement electric bikes solar charging stations at major destinations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , while using electric bikes is leaps and bounds cleaner than using a 2-stroke engine for power ( single-piston engine that burns gas AND oil , the primary technology of old , cheap , slowass mopeds and the current wave of motored bikes ) I do have an issue with calling it " green " transportation .
The consumption of dinosaur oil is only being displaced by equally non-green batteries .
SLA batteries are still the norm .
They are the common low-end of many electric bike products which will certainly sell better than NiMH , Lithium or Li-po batteries due to the cheaper upfront cost.The granddaddy of green , short-range transportation should aim to implement electric bikes solar charging stations at major destinations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, while using electric bikes is leaps and bounds cleaner than using a 2-stroke engine for power (single-piston engine that burns gas AND oil, the primary technology of old, cheap, slowass mopeds and the current wave of motored bikes) I do have an issue with calling it "green" transportation.
The consumption of dinosaur oil is only being displaced by equally non-green batteries.
SLA batteries are still the norm.
They are the common low-end of many electric bike products which will certainly sell better than NiMH, Lithium or Li-po batteries due to the cheaper upfront cost.The granddaddy of green, short-range transportation should aim to implement electric bikes solar charging stations at major destinations.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992874</id>
	<title>Prosecuting the motorist won't revive the dead</title>
	<author>jayveekay</author>
	<datestamp>1265108340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I commute to work every day by cycling (if the weather is decent) or walking (in snow/rain). In my younger days I would cycle on the side of busy streets and the shoulder of highways. I don't do that any more because I've seen car drivers make mistakes (heck as a car driver I've made a few mistakes myself, thankfully none resulting in collisions are accidents) and don't want to die due to someone else's simple mistake.</p><p>I can recall reading about an accident on the Trans-Canada Highway west of Calgary, Alberta 20+ years ago. A youth group was cycling on the shoulder, with their group van trailing behind them on the shoulder with its hazard lights on, when a car passed the van and swerved onto the shoulder and killed several of the cyclists. A teenage driver with his friends in the car had been trying to light a cigarette, dropped it, and took his eyes off the road...</p><p>More recently a group of cyclists in Ottawa was hit in a similar way with deaths and injuries.</p><p>In my car I've been rear ended twice. In both cases I was stopped at a red light, the car behind me was stopped, and then the driver behind me decided to go while the light was still red. I've seen automobile drivers do any number of stupid things, some of which resulted in serious accidents. I don't want to die or be seriously injured when someone makes a dumb mistake in a car while I'm completely unprotected (other than the helmet) on my bicycle.</p><p>The painted white line to designate a bike lane portion of a road (or a shoulder of a highway) offers no physical protection against a car driver who makes a mistake. The curb up to the sidewalk is something, but you can find many incidences of cars going up onto sidewalks and killing pedestrians.</p><p>I find the best defense to be vigilance, call it "defensive cycling" where you assume that the auto drivers do not see you and/or may turn/accelerate suddenly in any direction. Ride accordingly to protect yourself. Encourage your community to create dedicated bike paths where no motorized vehicles are permitted, those are my preferred places to ride.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I commute to work every day by cycling ( if the weather is decent ) or walking ( in snow/rain ) .
In my younger days I would cycle on the side of busy streets and the shoulder of highways .
I do n't do that any more because I 've seen car drivers make mistakes ( heck as a car driver I 've made a few mistakes myself , thankfully none resulting in collisions are accidents ) and do n't want to die due to someone else 's simple mistake.I can recall reading about an accident on the Trans-Canada Highway west of Calgary , Alberta 20 + years ago .
A youth group was cycling on the shoulder , with their group van trailing behind them on the shoulder with its hazard lights on , when a car passed the van and swerved onto the shoulder and killed several of the cyclists .
A teenage driver with his friends in the car had been trying to light a cigarette , dropped it , and took his eyes off the road...More recently a group of cyclists in Ottawa was hit in a similar way with deaths and injuries.In my car I 've been rear ended twice .
In both cases I was stopped at a red light , the car behind me was stopped , and then the driver behind me decided to go while the light was still red .
I 've seen automobile drivers do any number of stupid things , some of which resulted in serious accidents .
I do n't want to die or be seriously injured when someone makes a dumb mistake in a car while I 'm completely unprotected ( other than the helmet ) on my bicycle.The painted white line to designate a bike lane portion of a road ( or a shoulder of a highway ) offers no physical protection against a car driver who makes a mistake .
The curb up to the sidewalk is something , but you can find many incidences of cars going up onto sidewalks and killing pedestrians.I find the best defense to be vigilance , call it " defensive cycling " where you assume that the auto drivers do not see you and/or may turn/accelerate suddenly in any direction .
Ride accordingly to protect yourself .
Encourage your community to create dedicated bike paths where no motorized vehicles are permitted , those are my preferred places to ride .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I commute to work every day by cycling (if the weather is decent) or walking (in snow/rain).
In my younger days I would cycle on the side of busy streets and the shoulder of highways.
I don't do that any more because I've seen car drivers make mistakes (heck as a car driver I've made a few mistakes myself, thankfully none resulting in collisions are accidents) and don't want to die due to someone else's simple mistake.I can recall reading about an accident on the Trans-Canada Highway west of Calgary, Alberta 20+ years ago.
A youth group was cycling on the shoulder, with their group van trailing behind them on the shoulder with its hazard lights on, when a car passed the van and swerved onto the shoulder and killed several of the cyclists.
A teenage driver with his friends in the car had been trying to light a cigarette, dropped it, and took his eyes off the road...More recently a group of cyclists in Ottawa was hit in a similar way with deaths and injuries.In my car I've been rear ended twice.
In both cases I was stopped at a red light, the car behind me was stopped, and then the driver behind me decided to go while the light was still red.
I've seen automobile drivers do any number of stupid things, some of which resulted in serious accidents.
I don't want to die or be seriously injured when someone makes a dumb mistake in a car while I'm completely unprotected (other than the helmet) on my bicycle.The painted white line to designate a bike lane portion of a road (or a shoulder of a highway) offers no physical protection against a car driver who makes a mistake.
The curb up to the sidewalk is something, but you can find many incidences of cars going up onto sidewalks and killing pedestrians.I find the best defense to be vigilance, call it "defensive cycling" where you assume that the auto drivers do not see you and/or may turn/accelerate suddenly in any direction.
Ride accordingly to protect yourself.
Encourage your community to create dedicated bike paths where no motorized vehicles are permitted, those are my preferred places to ride.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30996766</id>
	<title>Two Sides</title>
	<author>lymond01</author>
	<datestamp>1265131380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At first I get sad thinking of younger folk using electric bikes.  But there is a practical side and that is, as many have mentioned, replacing the car for commuting.  If an electric bike can keep up a 15 MPH run (much faster and I wouldn't want it sharing bike paths with pedestrians and strollers), you could use it for the 5-20 mile commutes to work.  I've been starting to realize just how completely absurd it is that we feel the need for 3000+ lbs of metal to cart us around.  Even motorcycles are kind of ridiculous.  But an electric bike that allows you to both pedal and ride...that's a decent idea.</p><p>I've got a 20 mile commute which is easy by highway, but hilly and 25 miles on a bike.  I'd consider it with an electric bike though.  But I'd consider it on a normal bike if I could get a bike path the whole way instead of sharing/dodging cars on the road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At first I get sad thinking of younger folk using electric bikes .
But there is a practical side and that is , as many have mentioned , replacing the car for commuting .
If an electric bike can keep up a 15 MPH run ( much faster and I would n't want it sharing bike paths with pedestrians and strollers ) , you could use it for the 5-20 mile commutes to work .
I 've been starting to realize just how completely absurd it is that we feel the need for 3000 + lbs of metal to cart us around .
Even motorcycles are kind of ridiculous .
But an electric bike that allows you to both pedal and ride...that 's a decent idea.I 've got a 20 mile commute which is easy by highway , but hilly and 25 miles on a bike .
I 'd consider it with an electric bike though .
But I 'd consider it on a normal bike if I could get a bike path the whole way instead of sharing/dodging cars on the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At first I get sad thinking of younger folk using electric bikes.
But there is a practical side and that is, as many have mentioned, replacing the car for commuting.
If an electric bike can keep up a 15 MPH run (much faster and I wouldn't want it sharing bike paths with pedestrians and strollers), you could use it for the 5-20 mile commutes to work.
I've been starting to realize just how completely absurd it is that we feel the need for 3000+ lbs of metal to cart us around.
Even motorcycles are kind of ridiculous.
But an electric bike that allows you to both pedal and ride...that's a decent idea.I've got a 20 mile commute which is easy by highway, but hilly and 25 miles on a bike.
I'd consider it with an electric bike though.
But I'd consider it on a normal bike if I could get a bike path the whole way instead of sharing/dodging cars on the road.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991660</id>
	<title>Halfway?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265046540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Considering them like a motor vehicle is halfway between what and what?  It's like people try to copy the the most witless bit of prose from the entire article.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets .
Considering them like a motor vehicle is halfway between what and what ?
It 's like people try to copy the the most witless bit of prose from the entire article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets.
Considering them like a motor vehicle is halfway between what and what?
It's like people try to copy the the most witless bit of prose from the entire article.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31005706</id>
	<title>Ebiking for 9 months</title>
	<author>mbaysek</author>
	<datestamp>1265131800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got on the road with my ebike in May of last year.  I've got close to 3000 miles since then.  I live in a city (Pittsburgh) with a lot of hills and my ride is 8.5 miles each way.  I have to say that I get to work about 50\% faster on average than driving my car.  I also save over a thousand dollars a year on parking costs.  My daily gas costs in my car were about $2.00.  On the bike, it's less than $0.12 per day in electricity (including the half that I charge at work).  I estimate the amortized costs of the battery to be about $0.50 per day, though I haven't had to replace my battery pack yet.

</p><p>Needless to say, I am extremely satisfied with the experience, and I recommend it to anyone who's not afraid to try it.  A few things I'd like to point out.

</p><ul>
<li>As long I dress correctly, I can easily handle any weather, except snow/ice, including rain or temperatures down to about 20F.  Sure, you get a bit wet in rain, but keep a change of clothes at the office in case you need them.  Get a decent waterproof coat, shoes/boots.</li>
<li>With the proper lighting on your bike, you can make it very hard for people to miss you.  You should have flashing head and tail lights.  Aim your head light so it will be seen by drivers in their rear and side view mirrors.  It will annoy some people, but it will make sure they see you.</li>
<li>If you ride at night, be sure to have enough headlighting to see safely at your target speed.</li>
<li>Always keep spare batteries for your lighting.</li>
<li>Merging with traffic is actually safer when you are moving at speeds closer to traffic.  It gives drivers more time to see you and anticipate your movements.</li>
<li>Get a good horn that people will be able to hear inside their cars with the windows up.</li>
<li>Watch for car doors opening in front of you!  And pot holes.</li>
<li>Sometimes people like to lay on their horn at you, or pretend to run you down or pass you aggressively.  If that's how they get off, then get out of their way, since there's not much you can do about it.</li>
<li>Get puncture proof tires and Slime Super Thick inner tubes and you can run over broken glass and hit pot holes going 20 miles an hour without getting flats.  I have ridden over 2000 miles since I did this, and still have not had a flat.</li>
<li>Carry a complete toolkit with you, including duct tape!  You almost never need it but you won't regret carrying it when you do.</li>
</ul><p>

Anyway, I thought I'd share my experience.  Ebiking is absolutely a viable and economic means of transportation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got on the road with my ebike in May of last year .
I 've got close to 3000 miles since then .
I live in a city ( Pittsburgh ) with a lot of hills and my ride is 8.5 miles each way .
I have to say that I get to work about 50 \ % faster on average than driving my car .
I also save over a thousand dollars a year on parking costs .
My daily gas costs in my car were about $ 2.00 .
On the bike , it 's less than $ 0.12 per day in electricity ( including the half that I charge at work ) .
I estimate the amortized costs of the battery to be about $ 0.50 per day , though I have n't had to replace my battery pack yet .
Needless to say , I am extremely satisfied with the experience , and I recommend it to anyone who 's not afraid to try it .
A few things I 'd like to point out .
As long I dress correctly , I can easily handle any weather , except snow/ice , including rain or temperatures down to about 20F .
Sure , you get a bit wet in rain , but keep a change of clothes at the office in case you need them .
Get a decent waterproof coat , shoes/boots .
With the proper lighting on your bike , you can make it very hard for people to miss you .
You should have flashing head and tail lights .
Aim your head light so it will be seen by drivers in their rear and side view mirrors .
It will annoy some people , but it will make sure they see you .
If you ride at night , be sure to have enough headlighting to see safely at your target speed .
Always keep spare batteries for your lighting .
Merging with traffic is actually safer when you are moving at speeds closer to traffic .
It gives drivers more time to see you and anticipate your movements .
Get a good horn that people will be able to hear inside their cars with the windows up .
Watch for car doors opening in front of you !
And pot holes .
Sometimes people like to lay on their horn at you , or pretend to run you down or pass you aggressively .
If that 's how they get off , then get out of their way , since there 's not much you can do about it .
Get puncture proof tires and Slime Super Thick inner tubes and you can run over broken glass and hit pot holes going 20 miles an hour without getting flats .
I have ridden over 2000 miles since I did this , and still have not had a flat .
Carry a complete toolkit with you , including duct tape !
You almost never need it but you wo n't regret carrying it when you do .
Anyway , I thought I 'd share my experience .
Ebiking is absolutely a viable and economic means of transportation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got on the road with my ebike in May of last year.
I've got close to 3000 miles since then.
I live in a city (Pittsburgh) with a lot of hills and my ride is 8.5 miles each way.
I have to say that I get to work about 50\% faster on average than driving my car.
I also save over a thousand dollars a year on parking costs.
My daily gas costs in my car were about $2.00.
On the bike, it's less than $0.12 per day in electricity (including the half that I charge at work).
I estimate the amortized costs of the battery to be about $0.50 per day, though I haven't had to replace my battery pack yet.
Needless to say, I am extremely satisfied with the experience, and I recommend it to anyone who's not afraid to try it.
A few things I'd like to point out.
As long I dress correctly, I can easily handle any weather, except snow/ice, including rain or temperatures down to about 20F.
Sure, you get a bit wet in rain, but keep a change of clothes at the office in case you need them.
Get a decent waterproof coat, shoes/boots.
With the proper lighting on your bike, you can make it very hard for people to miss you.
You should have flashing head and tail lights.
Aim your head light so it will be seen by drivers in their rear and side view mirrors.
It will annoy some people, but it will make sure they see you.
If you ride at night, be sure to have enough headlighting to see safely at your target speed.
Always keep spare batteries for your lighting.
Merging with traffic is actually safer when you are moving at speeds closer to traffic.
It gives drivers more time to see you and anticipate your movements.
Get a good horn that people will be able to hear inside their cars with the windows up.
Watch for car doors opening in front of you!
And pot holes.
Sometimes people like to lay on their horn at you, or pretend to run you down or pass you aggressively.
If that's how they get off, then get out of their way, since there's not much you can do about it.
Get puncture proof tires and Slime Super Thick inner tubes and you can run over broken glass and hit pot holes going 20 miles an hour without getting flats.
I have ridden over 2000 miles since I did this, and still have not had a flat.
Carry a complete toolkit with you, including duct tape!
You almost never need it but you won't regret carrying it when you do.
Anyway, I thought I'd share my experience.
Ebiking is absolutely a viable and economic means of transportation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991832</id>
	<title>Why it cost more in Portland</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265048520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Three R's of Portland<br>or<br>Why Portland Sucks</p><p>"Latte Town" was coined a few years back and is the most appropriate term for the City of Portland that I have ever heard. A Latte town consists of mostly white, educated baby boomers and young single people. The inhabitants of the town are usually newcomers who have priced out all the original inhabitants. These towns are usually expensive, pretentious, abound in natural fibers and are laid back on the surface. Latte towns like Portland pride themselves on their most cherished concepts of diversity and inclusiveness. Most Portlanders accept this myth as Gospel but upon close examination Portland's dirty little secret is revealed. Portland is an overwhelmingly white, non-ethnic city. It is as vanilla as it gets so it makes one wonder what all the celebrating of diversity is all about. Drive through any neighborhood surrounding the downtown area and the impression that you get is that Portland is nothing more than a series of elitist ghettos compromised of rich white homosexuals, rich white yuppies, rich white hippies, rich white trust funders, and rich white kids from the suburbs pretending to be street people. Where's the diversity? Well it doesn't exist but the average Portlander likes the concept and in their eyes the different shades of rich whites all constituent diversity. In a series of articles I will attempt to breakdown and explain these subtle distinctions between the various factions of lily white, latte people that make Portland what it is.</p><p>The Artist-Intellectual<br>The visitor or newcomer to Portland is bound to be struck by the sheer numbers that belong to this group. They seem to be everywhere and are in fact everywhere. They are the reason that all the coffee shops have tables and chairs. The artist-intellectual fancies himself as a poet, a writer, a musician, a filmmaker, etc. You get the drift. They spend most of their days idling around the coffee establishments that one finds every 10 feet. They are usually equipped with a notebook that they use for their poems, journals or their artwork. No one ever gets to see the contents of these notebooks. More often than not they have a beaten and weathered paper back copy of some book authored by Kafka or William S. Boroughs. They love to discuss their favorite subject, themselves. Given the opportunity they will prattle on for hours about their poems, art work or the film they are making. You never get to actually see any of their work but you do get to hear about it. Their lives are like one never ending semester in grad school. Initially I believed these losers but then got to thinking. What would an aspiring actor, artist, musician, filmmaker being doing in Portland Oregon, a latte town? Why wouldn't they be in NYC or LA? Because they're phonies, that's why. Here's how it works with these clowns. They flunk out of college in New Jersey so their parents send them to Reed College in Portland in hopes that they will get their act together. They drop out of Reed but stay in Portland while still on Daddy's tab or some trust find. One Saturday Josh or Seth drifts down to one of the hundreds of hippie craft markets downtown. Some hippie is selling didgeridoos that he made I between bong reps. Josh buy one and takes it home where he proceeds to get baked after which he blows a few sour notes into the didgeridoo. The next day he's a musician. Not really but that's what he's telling everyone at the coffee house and pretending is good enough for a Portland artist-intellectual, in fact it's everything. In three months he will switch his designation from musician to filmmaker and then onto to something else 3 months later. As long as it sounds cool he will keep this charade up and no one in his circles will call him on it because they are doing the same thing.</p><p>The Activist<br>This group is usually comprised of people that used to be part of the artist-intellectual group in Portland. They have gotten a little older and may have finally, after 12 years, obtained a liberal arts degree from Portlan</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Three R 's of PortlandorWhy Portland Sucks " Latte Town " was coined a few years back and is the most appropriate term for the City of Portland that I have ever heard .
A Latte town consists of mostly white , educated baby boomers and young single people .
The inhabitants of the town are usually newcomers who have priced out all the original inhabitants .
These towns are usually expensive , pretentious , abound in natural fibers and are laid back on the surface .
Latte towns like Portland pride themselves on their most cherished concepts of diversity and inclusiveness .
Most Portlanders accept this myth as Gospel but upon close examination Portland 's dirty little secret is revealed .
Portland is an overwhelmingly white , non-ethnic city .
It is as vanilla as it gets so it makes one wonder what all the celebrating of diversity is all about .
Drive through any neighborhood surrounding the downtown area and the impression that you get is that Portland is nothing more than a series of elitist ghettos compromised of rich white homosexuals , rich white yuppies , rich white hippies , rich white trust funders , and rich white kids from the suburbs pretending to be street people .
Where 's the diversity ?
Well it does n't exist but the average Portlander likes the concept and in their eyes the different shades of rich whites all constituent diversity .
In a series of articles I will attempt to breakdown and explain these subtle distinctions between the various factions of lily white , latte people that make Portland what it is.The Artist-IntellectualThe visitor or newcomer to Portland is bound to be struck by the sheer numbers that belong to this group .
They seem to be everywhere and are in fact everywhere .
They are the reason that all the coffee shops have tables and chairs .
The artist-intellectual fancies himself as a poet , a writer , a musician , a filmmaker , etc .
You get the drift .
They spend most of their days idling around the coffee establishments that one finds every 10 feet .
They are usually equipped with a notebook that they use for their poems , journals or their artwork .
No one ever gets to see the contents of these notebooks .
More often than not they have a beaten and weathered paper back copy of some book authored by Kafka or William S. Boroughs. They love to discuss their favorite subject , themselves .
Given the opportunity they will prattle on for hours about their poems , art work or the film they are making .
You never get to actually see any of their work but you do get to hear about it .
Their lives are like one never ending semester in grad school .
Initially I believed these losers but then got to thinking .
What would an aspiring actor , artist , musician , filmmaker being doing in Portland Oregon , a latte town ?
Why would n't they be in NYC or LA ?
Because they 're phonies , that 's why .
Here 's how it works with these clowns .
They flunk out of college in New Jersey so their parents send them to Reed College in Portland in hopes that they will get their act together .
They drop out of Reed but stay in Portland while still on Daddy 's tab or some trust find .
One Saturday Josh or Seth drifts down to one of the hundreds of hippie craft markets downtown .
Some hippie is selling didgeridoos that he made I between bong reps. Josh buy one and takes it home where he proceeds to get baked after which he blows a few sour notes into the didgeridoo .
The next day he 's a musician .
Not really but that 's what he 's telling everyone at the coffee house and pretending is good enough for a Portland artist-intellectual , in fact it 's everything .
In three months he will switch his designation from musician to filmmaker and then onto to something else 3 months later .
As long as it sounds cool he will keep this charade up and no one in his circles will call him on it because they are doing the same thing.The ActivistThis group is usually comprised of people that used to be part of the artist-intellectual group in Portland .
They have gotten a little older and may have finally , after 12 years , obtained a liberal arts degree from Portlan</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Three R's of PortlandorWhy Portland Sucks"Latte Town" was coined a few years back and is the most appropriate term for the City of Portland that I have ever heard.
A Latte town consists of mostly white, educated baby boomers and young single people.
The inhabitants of the town are usually newcomers who have priced out all the original inhabitants.
These towns are usually expensive, pretentious, abound in natural fibers and are laid back on the surface.
Latte towns like Portland pride themselves on their most cherished concepts of diversity and inclusiveness.
Most Portlanders accept this myth as Gospel but upon close examination Portland's dirty little secret is revealed.
Portland is an overwhelmingly white, non-ethnic city.
It is as vanilla as it gets so it makes one wonder what all the celebrating of diversity is all about.
Drive through any neighborhood surrounding the downtown area and the impression that you get is that Portland is nothing more than a series of elitist ghettos compromised of rich white homosexuals, rich white yuppies, rich white hippies, rich white trust funders, and rich white kids from the suburbs pretending to be street people.
Where's the diversity?
Well it doesn't exist but the average Portlander likes the concept and in their eyes the different shades of rich whites all constituent diversity.
In a series of articles I will attempt to breakdown and explain these subtle distinctions between the various factions of lily white, latte people that make Portland what it is.The Artist-IntellectualThe visitor or newcomer to Portland is bound to be struck by the sheer numbers that belong to this group.
They seem to be everywhere and are in fact everywhere.
They are the reason that all the coffee shops have tables and chairs.
The artist-intellectual fancies himself as a poet, a writer, a musician, a filmmaker, etc.
You get the drift.
They spend most of their days idling around the coffee establishments that one finds every 10 feet.
They are usually equipped with a notebook that they use for their poems, journals or their artwork.
No one ever gets to see the contents of these notebooks.
More often than not they have a beaten and weathered paper back copy of some book authored by Kafka or William S. Boroughs. They love to discuss their favorite subject, themselves.
Given the opportunity they will prattle on for hours about their poems, art work or the film they are making.
You never get to actually see any of their work but you do get to hear about it.
Their lives are like one never ending semester in grad school.
Initially I believed these losers but then got to thinking.
What would an aspiring actor, artist, musician, filmmaker being doing in Portland Oregon, a latte town?
Why wouldn't they be in NYC or LA?
Because they're phonies, that's why.
Here's how it works with these clowns.
They flunk out of college in New Jersey so their parents send them to Reed College in Portland in hopes that they will get their act together.
They drop out of Reed but stay in Portland while still on Daddy's tab or some trust find.
One Saturday Josh or Seth drifts down to one of the hundreds of hippie craft markets downtown.
Some hippie is selling didgeridoos that he made I between bong reps. Josh buy one and takes it home where he proceeds to get baked after which he blows a few sour notes into the didgeridoo.
The next day he's a musician.
Not really but that's what he's telling everyone at the coffee house and pretending is good enough for a Portland artist-intellectual, in fact it's everything.
In three months he will switch his designation from musician to filmmaker and then onto to something else 3 months later.
As long as it sounds cool he will keep this charade up and no one in his circles will call him on it because they are doing the same thing.The ActivistThis group is usually comprised of people that used to be part of the artist-intellectual group in Portland.
They have gotten a little older and may have finally, after 12 years, obtained a liberal arts degree from Portlan</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993018</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1265110320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nobody is putting the blame for those incidents onto the victim. That's your own faulty logic at work.<br> <br>You're a squishy mass of blood and muscle, with <i>maybe</i> a pudding basin of packing foam on your head. If you're not looking out for your own safety, why do you expect a tit in a BMW with a map splayed against his steering wheel and a mobile phone pressed against his head in a 2 tonne cage of safety to do the same? He's <b>isolated</b> from you.<br> <br>Nobody thinks this is the way things should be, it's just the way things <b>are</b>. Deal / Live with it, or find a new pastime.<br> <br>Oh by the way, do you:<br>- Wear a crash helmet<br>- Wear high visibility clothing<br>- Have bright, continuous beam lights affixed to the front and rear of your bike<br>- Have reflectors fixed appropriately, front, rear, and to both sides of both wheels<br>- Obey all laws of the road, including not weaving around traffic, not ignoring stop signs / traffic lights / pedestrian crossings etc<br>- Ride courteously, stopping to allow fast-moving traffic to pass when appropriate (much like agricultural machinery must do)<br> <br>If not, you should probably look up the definition of "self preservation."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody is putting the blame for those incidents onto the victim .
That 's your own faulty logic at work .
You 're a squishy mass of blood and muscle , with maybe a pudding basin of packing foam on your head .
If you 're not looking out for your own safety , why do you expect a tit in a BMW with a map splayed against his steering wheel and a mobile phone pressed against his head in a 2 tonne cage of safety to do the same ?
He 's isolated from you .
Nobody thinks this is the way things should be , it 's just the way things are .
Deal / Live with it , or find a new pastime .
Oh by the way , do you : - Wear a crash helmet- Wear high visibility clothing- Have bright , continuous beam lights affixed to the front and rear of your bike- Have reflectors fixed appropriately , front , rear , and to both sides of both wheels- Obey all laws of the road , including not weaving around traffic , not ignoring stop signs / traffic lights / pedestrian crossings etc- Ride courteously , stopping to allow fast-moving traffic to pass when appropriate ( much like agricultural machinery must do ) If not , you should probably look up the definition of " self preservation .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody is putting the blame for those incidents onto the victim.
That's your own faulty logic at work.
You're a squishy mass of blood and muscle, with maybe a pudding basin of packing foam on your head.
If you're not looking out for your own safety, why do you expect a tit in a BMW with a map splayed against his steering wheel and a mobile phone pressed against his head in a 2 tonne cage of safety to do the same?
He's isolated from you.
Nobody thinks this is the way things should be, it's just the way things are.
Deal / Live with it, or find a new pastime.
Oh by the way, do you:- Wear a crash helmet- Wear high visibility clothing- Have bright, continuous beam lights affixed to the front and rear of your bike- Have reflectors fixed appropriately, front, rear, and to both sides of both wheels- Obey all laws of the road, including not weaving around traffic, not ignoring stop signs / traffic lights / pedestrian crossings etc- Ride courteously, stopping to allow fast-moving traffic to pass when appropriate (much like agricultural machinery must do) If not, you should probably look up the definition of "self preservation.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992582</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>jeti</author>
	<datestamp>1265102520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Using a bike lane is less safe than using a regular lane. Bike lanes exist to spare car owners the annoyance to deal with slower vehicles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Using a bike lane is less safe than using a regular lane .
Bike lanes exist to spare car owners the annoyance to deal with slower vehicles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using a bike lane is less safe than using a regular lane.
Bike lanes exist to spare car owners the annoyance to deal with slower vehicles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992136</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265052540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about: stop being a pussy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about : stop being a pussy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about: stop being a pussy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991846</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Shadow of Eternity</author>
	<datestamp>1265048640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And here in central florida they put it on the road which resulted in an even greater amount of chaos and injury.</p><p>I've got a lot of foreign friends, the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And here in central florida they put it on the road which resulted in an even greater amount of chaos and injury.I 've got a lot of foreign friends , the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And here in central florida they put it on the road which resulted in an even greater amount of chaos and injury.I've got a lot of foreign friends, the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993216</id>
	<title>"halfway measure"</title>
	<author>SlashDread</author>
	<datestamp>1265112600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In The Netherlands there are basically two kinds of scooters/mopeds. The 25km/h and the 45km/h variant.<br>The 25km/h can ride the bike lanes, but the 45km/h can only ride the bike lanes when explicitly allowed, otherwise he has to ride the car lanes. This has more to do with speed limit then vehicle size. Also, the 45km/h requires a drivers license.<br>We have a great bike lane infrastructure, but it can be very busy, and the speed difference would not work. The size of Vespas is akward sometimes (I drive one, 45km/h 2-stroke) but not a really big issue.<br>E-bikes I have seen are primarely the "helper" kinds on regular bikes, although electric Vespa like models are present. They also come in 25 and 45km/h variants.<br>I kill for a real Piaggio/Vespa electric scooter, and I seriously hope theyll make one soon, as the 2-stroke and even the 4-stroke fuel engines are just so 20 century<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)<br>Has to be a proper full metal body Vespa, with an extremely reliably engine thou, like I'm used to.</p><p>So no, I dont think its a halfway measure, but smart traffic really.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In The Netherlands there are basically two kinds of scooters/mopeds .
The 25km/h and the 45km/h variant.The 25km/h can ride the bike lanes , but the 45km/h can only ride the bike lanes when explicitly allowed , otherwise he has to ride the car lanes .
This has more to do with speed limit then vehicle size .
Also , the 45km/h requires a drivers license.We have a great bike lane infrastructure , but it can be very busy , and the speed difference would not work .
The size of Vespas is akward sometimes ( I drive one , 45km/h 2-stroke ) but not a really big issue.E-bikes I have seen are primarely the " helper " kinds on regular bikes , although electric Vespa like models are present .
They also come in 25 and 45km/h variants.I kill for a real Piaggio/Vespa electric scooter , and I seriously hope theyll make one soon , as the 2-stroke and even the 4-stroke fuel engines are just so 20 century ; - ) Has to be a proper full metal body Vespa , with an extremely reliably engine thou , like I 'm used to.So no , I dont think its a halfway measure , but smart traffic really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In The Netherlands there are basically two kinds of scooters/mopeds.
The 25km/h and the 45km/h variant.The 25km/h can ride the bike lanes, but the 45km/h can only ride the bike lanes when explicitly allowed, otherwise he has to ride the car lanes.
This has more to do with speed limit then vehicle size.
Also, the 45km/h requires a drivers license.We have a great bike lane infrastructure, but it can be very busy, and the speed difference would not work.
The size of Vespas is akward sometimes (I drive one, 45km/h 2-stroke) but not a really big issue.E-bikes I have seen are primarely the "helper" kinds on regular bikes, although electric Vespa like models are present.
They also come in 25 and 45km/h variants.I kill for a real Piaggio/Vespa electric scooter, and I seriously hope theyll make one soon, as the 2-stroke and even the 4-stroke fuel engines are just so 20 century ;-)Has to be a proper full metal body Vespa, with an extremely reliably engine thou, like I'm used to.So no, I dont think its a halfway measure, but smart traffic really.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992608</id>
	<title>I don't get...</title>
	<author>ksemlerK</author>
	<datestamp>1265103060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...the Motorist/Bicyclist animosity to each other.  Personally, if I'm on my bicycle, I keep to the right as much as possible, and use hand signals to indicate direction/lane changes.  I leave plenty of room for faster motorized vehicles to pass me if they want, (unless I'm changing lanes or direction, but I signal plenty in advance to let them know my intentions).  On a bicycle, I am 100\% sure that I'm obeying ALL traffic regulations, as I don't really want to die.  I've never had anybody ride my ass, or yell at me for doing something stupid.  When available, I'll use sidewalks, and go at a relatively slow pace to allow for plenty of time to stop/ maneuver for pedestrian traffic.
<br> <br>
When I'm in my motorized vehicle, I give the cyclist plenty of space to stop if needed, (and myself to stop if all the sudden he bites it for some reason in front of me).  If traffic is clear on a 3 lane, I'll drive in the center turn lane to get around the cyclist at 75\% normal speed to give him room.  If it's a 4 lane, and he's riding on the shoulder, I'll just change lanes, and go around him while not breaching proper directional lane travel.  If it's a 2 lane, (highway), I'll straddle the center line, and get around him as fast as possible.  I wouldn't want a car passing within inches of me on a bicycle, so I don't do it to other people.  I consciously try and give bicyclists plenty of room to maneuver if it is at all feasible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...the Motorist/Bicyclist animosity to each other .
Personally , if I 'm on my bicycle , I keep to the right as much as possible , and use hand signals to indicate direction/lane changes .
I leave plenty of room for faster motorized vehicles to pass me if they want , ( unless I 'm changing lanes or direction , but I signal plenty in advance to let them know my intentions ) .
On a bicycle , I am 100 \ % sure that I 'm obeying ALL traffic regulations , as I do n't really want to die .
I 've never had anybody ride my ass , or yell at me for doing something stupid .
When available , I 'll use sidewalks , and go at a relatively slow pace to allow for plenty of time to stop/ maneuver for pedestrian traffic .
When I 'm in my motorized vehicle , I give the cyclist plenty of space to stop if needed , ( and myself to stop if all the sudden he bites it for some reason in front of me ) .
If traffic is clear on a 3 lane , I 'll drive in the center turn lane to get around the cyclist at 75 \ % normal speed to give him room .
If it 's a 4 lane , and he 's riding on the shoulder , I 'll just change lanes , and go around him while not breaching proper directional lane travel .
If it 's a 2 lane , ( highway ) , I 'll straddle the center line , and get around him as fast as possible .
I would n't want a car passing within inches of me on a bicycle , so I do n't do it to other people .
I consciously try and give bicyclists plenty of room to maneuver if it is at all feasible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...the Motorist/Bicyclist animosity to each other.
Personally, if I'm on my bicycle, I keep to the right as much as possible, and use hand signals to indicate direction/lane changes.
I leave plenty of room for faster motorized vehicles to pass me if they want, (unless I'm changing lanes or direction, but I signal plenty in advance to let them know my intentions).
On a bicycle, I am 100\% sure that I'm obeying ALL traffic regulations, as I don't really want to die.
I've never had anybody ride my ass, or yell at me for doing something stupid.
When available, I'll use sidewalks, and go at a relatively slow pace to allow for plenty of time to stop/ maneuver for pedestrian traffic.
When I'm in my motorized vehicle, I give the cyclist plenty of space to stop if needed, (and myself to stop if all the sudden he bites it for some reason in front of me).
If traffic is clear on a 3 lane, I'll drive in the center turn lane to get around the cyclist at 75\% normal speed to give him room.
If it's a 4 lane, and he's riding on the shoulder, I'll just change lanes, and go around him while not breaching proper directional lane travel.
If it's a 2 lane, (highway), I'll straddle the center line, and get around him as fast as possible.
I wouldn't want a car passing within inches of me on a bicycle, so I don't do it to other people.
I consciously try and give bicyclists plenty of room to maneuver if it is at all feasible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993008</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>naeone</author>
	<datestamp>1265110260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly, assume everyone is trying to kill you. you maybe in the right but you may also in the hospital if you dont. just reading these posts is a good demonstration of other trying to blame any<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/every one else for something that you have a fair amount of control over. it is after all your life and NOBODY really cares about it even 1/2 as much as you , please look after yourself</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , assume everyone is trying to kill you .
you maybe in the right but you may also in the hospital if you dont .
just reading these posts is a good demonstration of other trying to blame any /every one else for something that you have a fair amount of control over .
it is after all your life and NOBODY really cares about it even 1/2 as much as you , please look after yourself</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, assume everyone is trying to kill you.
you maybe in the right but you may also in the hospital if you dont.
just reading these posts is a good demonstration of other trying to blame any /every one else for something that you have a fair amount of control over.
it is after all your life and NOBODY really cares about it even 1/2 as much as you , please look after yourself</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992312</id>
	<title>why does it say www.google-analytics.com when I</title>
	<author>JoshDD</author>
	<datestamp>1265141760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>refresh slashdot...it does the same thing when I refresh sites that stream illegal copyrighted content now why is that slashdot is associated with sites that contain illegal material? This site is just a datamine for the dod isn't it? Cmdrtaco is a commy. Just like our current president.</htmltext>
<tokenext>refresh slashdot...it does the same thing when I refresh sites that stream illegal copyrighted content now why is that slashdot is associated with sites that contain illegal material ?
This site is just a datamine for the dod is n't it ?
Cmdrtaco is a commy .
Just like our current president .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>refresh slashdot...it does the same thing when I refresh sites that stream illegal copyrighted content now why is that slashdot is associated with sites that contain illegal material?
This site is just a datamine for the dod isn't it?
Cmdrtaco is a commy.
Just like our current president.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991980</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265050500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American. In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.</p></div><p>a lot of people in china are still getting a 300USD monthly paycheck, they have to pay rent, they have to live lives, they have to support their families. they probably don't want to ride on these "nasty rusty things" if they could spare the cash to change brake pads. i don't see how "leave-it-out-to-rust" is a Chinese motto from your observation</p><p>u don't have to be ignorant and arrogant just because you're an American.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find this behavior quite foreign to me , but I suppose that 's because I 'm an American .
In short , leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.a lot of people in china are still getting a 300USD monthly paycheck , they have to pay rent , they have to live lives , they have to support their families .
they probably do n't want to ride on these " nasty rusty things " if they could spare the cash to change brake pads .
i do n't see how " leave-it-out-to-rust " is a Chinese motto from your observationu do n't have to be ignorant and arrogant just because you 're an American .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American.
In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.a lot of people in china are still getting a 300USD monthly paycheck, they have to pay rent, they have to live lives, they have to support their families.
they probably don't want to ride on these "nasty rusty things" if they could spare the cash to change brake pads.
i don't see how "leave-it-out-to-rust" is a Chinese motto from your observationu don't have to be ignorant and arrogant just because you're an American.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991762</id>
	<title>moped owner here</title>
	<author>eobanb</author>
	<datestamp>1265047800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, bicycle, electric bike, and moped owner here.  And I don't mean scooters like your Honda Spree and Vespa PX.  I mean moped.  Your Puch Maxi, your Vespa Ciao, your Tomos LX.

It's so interesting watching the moped revolution of the late 1970s in the US come alive again in even fuller force in China and other Asian countries today.  We Americans could save a mighty lot of gas if a lot of us switched to two-wheeled transport; and I get the feeling that at some point it might have to happen yet again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , bicycle , electric bike , and moped owner here .
And I do n't mean scooters like your Honda Spree and Vespa PX .
I mean moped .
Your Puch Maxi , your Vespa Ciao , your Tomos LX .
It 's so interesting watching the moped revolution of the late 1970s in the US come alive again in even fuller force in China and other Asian countries today .
We Americans could save a mighty lot of gas if a lot of us switched to two-wheeled transport ; and I get the feeling that at some point it might have to happen yet again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, bicycle, electric bike, and moped owner here.
And I don't mean scooters like your Honda Spree and Vespa PX.
I mean moped.
Your Puch Maxi, your Vespa Ciao, your Tomos LX.
It's so interesting watching the moped revolution of the late 1970s in the US come alive again in even fuller force in China and other Asian countries today.
We Americans could save a mighty lot of gas if a lot of us switched to two-wheeled transport; and I get the feeling that at some point it might have to happen yet again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</id>
	<title>bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets</i>

</p><p>It's simple, really.  Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic.  If you're assisted by an electric motor, there is less of a speed differential with traffic, but now you'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself, since you'll be traveling much faster than them.

</p><p>I can't wait for the first dooring of a moped rider in a bike lane- maybe drivers will start to take "look in your mirror before you fling open your door" seriously because it'll be in their best interests, both in terms of personal safety and damage to their car; a couple hundred pounds of metal and rider will at the very least bend that door pretty far forward, I'm guessing.

</p><p>As someone who has been doored, it REALLY sucks getting doored because some stupid asshole can't take 2 seconds to look in their mirror before they open their door.  The worst part isn't flying over your handlebars, or getting your hand permanently fucked up from getting pinched between the handlebar and edge of the car door at +10MPH with 150lb of momentum.  <b>The worst part is hitting the door and having that throw you right into the traffic lane and get hit/run over by a car, truck, or bus.</b>  It's not the door itself that kills bicyclists- it's getting hit/run over by the traffic that was just behind them.  Yet another reason why bicycle lanes in the US, which are sandwiched between parked cars and traffic, are almost worse than nothing at all.  In Europe and elsewhere, bike lanes are completely separated and often run nowhere near the road- they're a separate network.

</p><p>Also, there is a special place in hell for all the hipster retards riding their 70's-era mopeds (Puchs seem to be the most popular.)  In our part of town, there's at least a couple of them zipping around in their tight black jeans and flannel shirts, leaving a contrail of blue smoke which is so bad to ride behind and breathe, one has to pull over and wait a minute or two for it to dissipate.  They're putting out 50 times the pollution of the SUV next to them, just to save money on gas and look cool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets It 's simple , really .
Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic .
If you 're assisted by an electric motor , there is less of a speed differential with traffic , but now you 'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself , since you 'll be traveling much faster than them .
I ca n't wait for the first dooring of a moped rider in a bike lane- maybe drivers will start to take " look in your mirror before you fling open your door " seriously because it 'll be in their best interests , both in terms of personal safety and damage to their car ; a couple hundred pounds of metal and rider will at the very least bend that door pretty far forward , I 'm guessing .
As someone who has been doored , it REALLY sucks getting doored because some stupid asshole ca n't take 2 seconds to look in their mirror before they open their door .
The worst part is n't flying over your handlebars , or getting your hand permanently fucked up from getting pinched between the handlebar and edge of the car door at + 10MPH with 150lb of momentum .
The worst part is hitting the door and having that throw you right into the traffic lane and get hit/run over by a car , truck , or bus .
It 's not the door itself that kills bicyclists- it 's getting hit/run over by the traffic that was just behind them .
Yet another reason why bicycle lanes in the US , which are sandwiched between parked cars and traffic , are almost worse than nothing at all .
In Europe and elsewhere , bike lanes are completely separated and often run nowhere near the road- they 're a separate network .
Also , there is a special place in hell for all the hipster retards riding their 70 's-era mopeds ( Puchs seem to be the most popular .
) In our part of town , there 's at least a couple of them zipping around in their tight black jeans and flannel shirts , leaving a contrail of blue smoke which is so bad to ride behind and breathe , one has to pull over and wait a minute or two for it to dissipate .
They 're putting out 50 times the pollution of the SUV next to them , just to save money on gas and look cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Some cities are studying the halfway measure of banning them from bicycle lanes while permitting them on streets

It's simple, really.
Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic.
If you're assisted by an electric motor, there is less of a speed differential with traffic, but now you'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself, since you'll be traveling much faster than them.
I can't wait for the first dooring of a moped rider in a bike lane- maybe drivers will start to take "look in your mirror before you fling open your door" seriously because it'll be in their best interests, both in terms of personal safety and damage to their car; a couple hundred pounds of metal and rider will at the very least bend that door pretty far forward, I'm guessing.
As someone who has been doored, it REALLY sucks getting doored because some stupid asshole can't take 2 seconds to look in their mirror before they open their door.
The worst part isn't flying over your handlebars, or getting your hand permanently fucked up from getting pinched between the handlebar and edge of the car door at +10MPH with 150lb of momentum.
The worst part is hitting the door and having that throw you right into the traffic lane and get hit/run over by a car, truck, or bus.
It's not the door itself that kills bicyclists- it's getting hit/run over by the traffic that was just behind them.
Yet another reason why bicycle lanes in the US, which are sandwiched between parked cars and traffic, are almost worse than nothing at all.
In Europe and elsewhere, bike lanes are completely separated and often run nowhere near the road- they're a separate network.
Also, there is a special place in hell for all the hipster retards riding their 70's-era mopeds (Puchs seem to be the most popular.
)  In our part of town, there's at least a couple of them zipping around in their tight black jeans and flannel shirts, leaving a contrail of blue smoke which is so bad to ride behind and breathe, one has to pull over and wait a minute or two for it to dissipate.
They're putting out 50 times the pollution of the SUV next to them, just to save money on gas and look cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993616</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1265116260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits, and around here do.<br>Should they be banned from the bike lanes? what exactly is the bike lane speed limit?</p></div><p>No, they should be ticketed for exceeding the speed limit. Bicycles are vehicles.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past? they are VERY hard to spot, especially when going fast</p></div><p>No, they aren't. If your eyesight is that bad, you shouldn't be driving. There is one exception: rider without a light, at dusk or later. But that's illegal anyway, and will probably constitute fault.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUV</p></div><p>You are completely incorrect. The average motorcycle makes <strong>ten times</strong> more pollution <em>per mile</em> than the average car. The average SUV makes about twice as much pollution per mile as the average car. Most mopeds are two-strokes and are inherently polluting. In fact, <a href="http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=260" title="evworld.com">motorcycles are more polluting than the worst SUV</a> [evworld.com]. Now we've got motorcycle emissions standards, but just as California smog-exemption has resulted in enthusiasts restoring old vehicles without emissions restrictions, the motorcycle emissions laws have resulted in a renaissance of motorcycle restoration specifically to avoid taking responsibility for emissions. While rare motorcycles offer very high mileage per gallon of fuel burned, these are represented by the most expensive and/or most gutless examples in their respective classes, and they are not appealing to the average rider. Motorcycles are designed and tuned for maximum output in most cases, not for maximum efficiency.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits , and around here do.Should they be banned from the bike lanes ?
what exactly is the bike lane speed limit ? No , they should be ticketed for exceeding the speed limit .
Bicycles are vehicles.Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past ?
they are VERY hard to spot , especially when going fastNo , they are n't .
If your eyesight is that bad , you should n't be driving .
There is one exception : rider without a light , at dusk or later .
But that 's illegal anyway , and will probably constitute fault.And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUVYou are completely incorrect .
The average motorcycle makes ten times more pollution per mile than the average car .
The average SUV makes about twice as much pollution per mile as the average car .
Most mopeds are two-strokes and are inherently polluting .
In fact , motorcycles are more polluting than the worst SUV [ evworld.com ] .
Now we 've got motorcycle emissions standards , but just as California smog-exemption has resulted in enthusiasts restoring old vehicles without emissions restrictions , the motorcycle emissions laws have resulted in a renaissance of motorcycle restoration specifically to avoid taking responsibility for emissions .
While rare motorcycles offer very high mileage per gallon of fuel burned , these are represented by the most expensive and/or most gutless examples in their respective classes , and they are not appealing to the average rider .
Motorcycles are designed and tuned for maximum output in most cases , not for maximum efficiency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits, and around here do.Should they be banned from the bike lanes?
what exactly is the bike lane speed limit?No, they should be ticketed for exceeding the speed limit.
Bicycles are vehicles.Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past?
they are VERY hard to spot, especially when going fastNo, they aren't.
If your eyesight is that bad, you shouldn't be driving.
There is one exception: rider without a light, at dusk or later.
But that's illegal anyway, and will probably constitute fault.And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUVYou are completely incorrect.
The average motorcycle makes ten times more pollution per mile than the average car.
The average SUV makes about twice as much pollution per mile as the average car.
Most mopeds are two-strokes and are inherently polluting.
In fact, motorcycles are more polluting than the worst SUV [evworld.com].
Now we've got motorcycle emissions standards, but just as California smog-exemption has resulted in enthusiasts restoring old vehicles without emissions restrictions, the motorcycle emissions laws have resulted in a renaissance of motorcycle restoration specifically to avoid taking responsibility for emissions.
While rare motorcycles offer very high mileage per gallon of fuel burned, these are represented by the most expensive and/or most gutless examples in their respective classes, and they are not appealing to the average rider.
Motorcycles are designed and tuned for maximum output in most cases, not for maximum efficiency.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991776</id>
	<title>Re:Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably the lead batteries.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably the lead batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably the lead batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31003804</id>
	<title>Re:reasons this may not catch on in the US</title>
	<author>IICV</author>
	<datestamp>1265119680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You jest, but that's why you see very few bicyclists (or even pedestrians) on the streets here in Irvine. All of the surface streets are at least 45 MPH, which makes for a terrible bicycling and walking environment. The city tries to ameliorate it by making really wide sidewalks, but that doesn't help the fact that there's still cars whipping by you at fifty+ miles per hour.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You jest , but that 's why you see very few bicyclists ( or even pedestrians ) on the streets here in Irvine .
All of the surface streets are at least 45 MPH , which makes for a terrible bicycling and walking environment .
The city tries to ameliorate it by making really wide sidewalks , but that does n't help the fact that there 's still cars whipping by you at fifty + miles per hour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You jest, but that's why you see very few bicyclists (or even pedestrians) on the streets here in Irvine.
All of the surface streets are at least 45 MPH, which makes for a terrible bicycling and walking environment.
The city tries to ameliorate it by making really wide sidewalks, but that doesn't help the fact that there's still cars whipping by you at fifty+ miles per hour.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991686</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991724</id>
	<title>Re:reasons this may not catch on in the US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a careful driver but many cyclists I come across make it hard not to run over them, what with driving through every gap between cars they can fit into regardless of the lanes, going through a car or a pedestrian green light, whichever comes first, and acting like jerks every time a car fails to signal or otherwise violates some traffic rule while they themselves almost completely ignore every single one of them. <br> <br>Oh, I'm sure you are not one of those, but since you are generalizing I thought I'd join in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a careful driver but many cyclists I come across make it hard not to run over them , what with driving through every gap between cars they can fit into regardless of the lanes , going through a car or a pedestrian green light , whichever comes first , and acting like jerks every time a car fails to signal or otherwise violates some traffic rule while they themselves almost completely ignore every single one of them .
Oh , I 'm sure you are not one of those , but since you are generalizing I thought I 'd join in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a careful driver but many cyclists I come across make it hard not to run over them, what with driving through every gap between cars they can fit into regardless of the lanes, going through a car or a pedestrian green light, whichever comes first, and acting like jerks every time a car fails to signal or otherwise violates some traffic rule while they themselves almost completely ignore every single one of them.
Oh, I'm sure you are not one of those, but since you are generalizing I thought I'd join in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991602</id>
	<title>Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265045940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ah, yes, the transportation planner, one of the modern evils, who uses dubious logic to impose brain-dead transportation priorities that do wonders to destroy the planet...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , yes , the transportation planner , one of the modern evils , who uses dubious logic to impose brain-dead transportation priorities that do wonders to destroy the planet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, yes, the transportation planner, one of the modern evils, who uses dubious logic to impose brain-dead transportation priorities that do wonders to destroy the planet...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991714</id>
	<title>pollution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Green transportation?</p><p>I live in Shanghai. Yes, there are a lot of electric bikes here. Now guess what will happen to the toxic batteries here.</p><p>This is not a solution (yet?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Green transportation ? I live in Shanghai .
Yes , there are a lot of electric bikes here .
Now guess what will happen to the toxic batteries here.This is not a solution ( yet ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Green transportation?I live in Shanghai.
Yes, there are a lot of electric bikes here.
Now guess what will happen to the toxic batteries here.This is not a solution (yet?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992354</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1265142360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your foreign friends bedamned; bicycles are not pedestrians, and never have been in the U.S.  Whenever you start treating them as such (i.e., putting bicycles on pedestrian paths) you end up with a lot more injured pedestrians than injured bicyclists on the street.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your foreign friends bedamned ; bicycles are not pedestrians , and never have been in the U.S. Whenever you start treating them as such ( i.e. , putting bicycles on pedestrian paths ) you end up with a lot more injured pedestrians than injured bicyclists on the street .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your foreign friends bedamned; bicycles are not pedestrians, and never have been in the U.S.  Whenever you start treating them as such (i.e., putting bicycles on pedestrian paths) you end up with a lot more injured pedestrians than injured bicyclists on the street.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31002130</id>
	<title>Downtown vs residential areas</title>
	<author>Beerdood</author>
	<datestamp>1265110260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places, which makes absolutely no sense...</p></div><p>
Ever try riding a bike downtown on a sidewalk during business hours?  Constantly weaving through dozens of people each minute won't allow you to reach a very high speed, and you run a much higher risk of crashing into someone, as pedestrian movements can be a lot more random and sporadic (i.e. riding behind someone that just stops and turns around, people suddenly exiting parked cars or buildings) than cars, which generally travel in their lanes. <br> <br>
I'd prefer to ride on a sidewalk as much as possible, as getting run over by a pedestrian is a lot less worse for me than getting run over by a vehicle (paying extra attention to right turns and left turning vehicles when crossing intersections).  Riding on the road when the sidewalk is empty seems like a needless risk too.  Sidewalk-only riding simply doesn't work everywhere, and I'll need to ride on the road sometimes to get to my destination in the fastest possible time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places , which makes absolutely no sense.. . Ever try riding a bike downtown on a sidewalk during business hours ?
Constantly weaving through dozens of people each minute wo n't allow you to reach a very high speed , and you run a much higher risk of crashing into someone , as pedestrian movements can be a lot more random and sporadic ( i.e .
riding behind someone that just stops and turns around , people suddenly exiting parked cars or buildings ) than cars , which generally travel in their lanes .
I 'd prefer to ride on a sidewalk as much as possible , as getting run over by a pedestrian is a lot less worse for me than getting run over by a vehicle ( paying extra attention to right turns and left turning vehicles when crossing intersections ) .
Riding on the road when the sidewalk is empty seems like a needless risk too .
Sidewalk-only riding simply does n't work everywhere , and I 'll need to ride on the road sometimes to get to my destination in the fastest possible time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places, which makes absolutely no sense...
Ever try riding a bike downtown on a sidewalk during business hours?
Constantly weaving through dozens of people each minute won't allow you to reach a very high speed, and you run a much higher risk of crashing into someone, as pedestrian movements can be a lot more random and sporadic (i.e.
riding behind someone that just stops and turns around, people suddenly exiting parked cars or buildings) than cars, which generally travel in their lanes.
I'd prefer to ride on a sidewalk as much as possible, as getting run over by a pedestrian is a lot less worse for me than getting run over by a vehicle (paying extra attention to right turns and left turning vehicles when crossing intersections).
Riding on the road when the sidewalk is empty seems like a needless risk too.
Sidewalk-only riding simply doesn't work everywhere, and I'll need to ride on the road sometimes to get to my destination in the fastest possible time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993054</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265110860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your goal is to convince people that bicyclists don't act like a bunch of self-centered pricks then you are your own worst enemy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your goal is to convince people that bicyclists do n't act like a bunch of self-centered pricks then you are your own worst enemy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your goal is to convince people that bicyclists don't act like a bunch of self-centered pricks then you are your own worst enemy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994108</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>bkr1\_2k</author>
	<datestamp>1265120520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes you can buy a gasoline engine, but then you have to deal with the extra noise it creates.  Electrics are significantly quieter and hearing loss is definitely a cost to consider when in such close proximity to engine noise for prolonged periods of time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes you can buy a gasoline engine , but then you have to deal with the extra noise it creates .
Electrics are significantly quieter and hearing loss is definitely a cost to consider when in such close proximity to engine noise for prolonged periods of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes you can buy a gasoline engine, but then you have to deal with the extra noise it creates.
Electrics are significantly quieter and hearing loss is definitely a cost to consider when in such close proximity to engine noise for prolonged periods of time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994098</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1265120520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Power assist works great.   I have it on my recumbent and it helps to maintain a average speed and even out the hills.  BUT I'm dragging around an extra 8 kilos and downhill I regenerate power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Power assist works great .
I have it on my recumbent and it helps to maintain a average speed and even out the hills .
BUT I 'm dragging around an extra 8 kilos and downhill I regenerate power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Power assist works great.
I have it on my recumbent and it helps to maintain a average speed and even out the hills.
BUT I'm dragging around an extra 8 kilos and downhill I regenerate power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31000078</id>
	<title>Increasing -- yes, but for different reasons.</title>
	<author>cjmapman</author>
	<datestamp>1265143560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Indeed, although the conditions that have spurred popularity of ebikes in China are not the same as those poised to do so in the US.  In China, the trend reflects rising incomes and the switch from regular bicyles to electric-assist bicycles (typically with heavy but inexpensive lead-acid batteries.)  In the U.S., growth is likely to come (1) because lots of aging baby boomer knees could use a little help, and the number of aging baby boomers is exploding, (2) because the highest cost component is a good Lithium-chemistry battery, and investments in the electric car industry are pushing those costs down fast, (3) because of the Growth of Green, and (4) because they are just SO much fun.

Interested?  Please join us at <a href="http://electriccyclist.com/" title="electriccyclist.com" rel="nofollow">http://electriccyclist.com/</a> [electriccyclist.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed , although the conditions that have spurred popularity of ebikes in China are not the same as those poised to do so in the US .
In China , the trend reflects rising incomes and the switch from regular bicyles to electric-assist bicycles ( typically with heavy but inexpensive lead-acid batteries .
) In the U.S. , growth is likely to come ( 1 ) because lots of aging baby boomer knees could use a little help , and the number of aging baby boomers is exploding , ( 2 ) because the highest cost component is a good Lithium-chemistry battery , and investments in the electric car industry are pushing those costs down fast , ( 3 ) because of the Growth of Green , and ( 4 ) because they are just SO much fun .
Interested ? Please join us at http : //electriccyclist.com/ [ electriccyclist.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed, although the conditions that have spurred popularity of ebikes in China are not the same as those poised to do so in the US.
In China, the trend reflects rising incomes and the switch from regular bicyles to electric-assist bicycles (typically with heavy but inexpensive lead-acid batteries.
)  In the U.S., growth is likely to come (1) because lots of aging baby boomer knees could use a little help, and the number of aging baby boomers is exploding, (2) because the highest cost component is a good Lithium-chemistry battery, and investments in the electric car industry are pushing those costs down fast, (3) because of the Growth of Green, and (4) because they are just SO much fun.
Interested?  Please join us at http://electriccyclist.com/ [electriccyclist.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994088</id>
	<title>*cycle</title>
	<author>mqduck</author>
	<datestamp>1265120460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but is there a particular reason these aren't being called "electric motorcycles"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forgive me if this is an ignorant question , but is there a particular reason these are n't being called " electric motorcycles " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but is there a particular reason these aren't being called "electric motorcycles"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991830</id>
	<title>Whatever reduces our oil dependency!</title>
	<author>mykos</author>
	<datestamp>1265048460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like this news very much.</p><p>Although I'm not a huge fan of bicycle riding myself, it's good to see people able to find inexpensive and efficient transportation.  It won't work where I live (not urbanized enough), but it's an excellent solution for big cities, which is where most of the fossil fuels get burned anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like this news very much.Although I 'm not a huge fan of bicycle riding myself , it 's good to see people able to find inexpensive and efficient transportation .
It wo n't work where I live ( not urbanized enough ) , but it 's an excellent solution for big cities , which is where most of the fossil fuels get burned anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like this news very much.Although I'm not a huge fan of bicycle riding myself, it's good to see people able to find inexpensive and efficient transportation.
It won't work where I live (not urbanized enough), but it's an excellent solution for big cities, which is where most of the fossil fuels get burned anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991794</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265048160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>"but I suppose that's because I'm an American. In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto."</i>
</p><p>My<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what an arrogant American you are,in fact, you qualify as an <i> <b>Ugly American</b> </i> at that.
</p><p>Apparently you've never been far enough from your insulated <i>cocoon</i> to actually see that there are <b>Plenty</b> of <i>Merkins</i> who chant the <b>same</b> motto.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" but I suppose that 's because I 'm an American .
In short , leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto .
" My ... what an arrogant American you are,in fact , you qualify as an Ugly American at that .
Apparently you 've never been far enough from your insulated cocoon to actually see that there are Plenty of Merkins who chant the same motto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "but I suppose that's because I'm an American.
In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.
"
My ... what an arrogant American you are,in fact, you qualify as an  Ugly American  at that.
Apparently you've never been far enough from your insulated cocoon to actually see that there are Plenty of Merkins who chant the same motto.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991920</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265049660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your friends must be motorists. In countries with high percentages of bicyclists, people would certainly disagree with the pedestrian classification. Studies have shown that bicycles belong on the road: Bicycle paths remove the cyclists from the view of motorists, which means that instead of preventing accidents, they cause them, especially at intersections. Bicycles certainly don't belong on the sidewalk, because actual pedestrians behave very differently from vehicles. Mixing pedestrians and cyclists is a recipe for disaster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your friends must be motorists .
In countries with high percentages of bicyclists , people would certainly disagree with the pedestrian classification .
Studies have shown that bicycles belong on the road : Bicycle paths remove the cyclists from the view of motorists , which means that instead of preventing accidents , they cause them , especially at intersections .
Bicycles certainly do n't belong on the sidewalk , because actual pedestrians behave very differently from vehicles .
Mixing pedestrians and cyclists is a recipe for disaster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your friends must be motorists.
In countries with high percentages of bicyclists, people would certainly disagree with the pedestrian classification.
Studies have shown that bicycles belong on the road: Bicycle paths remove the cyclists from the view of motorists, which means that instead of preventing accidents, they cause them, especially at intersections.
Bicycles certainly don't belong on the sidewalk, because actual pedestrians behave very differently from vehicles.
Mixing pedestrians and cyclists is a recipe for disaster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992698</id>
	<title>What? Nobody's done it yet?</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1265104320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Electrical Bicycles Surging"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... come on, it's so easy... you've let me down, slashdot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Electrical Bicycles Surging " ... come on , it 's so easy... you 've let me down , slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Electrical Bicycles Surging" ... come on, it's so easy... you've let me down, slashdot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993924</id>
	<title>ORLY?</title>
	<author>superdan2k</author>
	<datestamp>1265119080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"and impressive sales in India, Europe, and the US."</i> <br> <br>Funny, I work at one of the highest-volume bike stores in my state.  Do you know how many electric bikes we sold last year?  I'll give you a minute.<br> <br>That's right.  Zero.<br> <br>You know how many electric bikes we sold in the last five years?<br> <br>One.<br> <br>So yeah, sales are "impressive."</htmltext>
<tokenext>" and impressive sales in India , Europe , and the US .
" Funny , I work at one of the highest-volume bike stores in my state .
Do you know how many electric bikes we sold last year ?
I 'll give you a minute .
That 's right .
Zero. You know how many electric bikes we sold in the last five years ?
One. So yeah , sales are " impressive .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"and impressive sales in India, Europe, and the US.
"  Funny, I work at one of the highest-volume bike stores in my state.
Do you know how many electric bikes we sold last year?
I'll give you a minute.
That's right.
Zero. You know how many electric bikes we sold in the last five years?
One. So yeah, sales are "impressive.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991942</id>
	<title>Struggling to classify low-speed vehicles.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265049900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Trying to fit these things into traffic in a crowded area is tough.
New York State classifies such vehicles as follows:
</p><ul>
<li>
<b>Motorized Scooters, Mini-Bikes, Dirt Bikes, Go-Karts, Motor Assisted Bicycles</b> - not allowed on streets or highways.</li>
<li>
<b>Limited Use Motorcycle, class C (20 MPH or less)</b> - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only.  Insurance not required, inspection not required,  motorcycle driver license not required, helmet not required.</li>
<li>
<b>Limited Use Motorcycle, class B. (20MPH to 30 MPH)</b> - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only.  Insurance required, inspection not required, motorcycle driver license not required. helmet required.</li>
<li>
<b>Limited Use Motorcycle, class A. (30MPH to 40 MPH)</b> - allowed in any traffic lane.  Insurance required, inspection required, motorcycle driver license required, helmet required.</li>
<li>
<b>Motorcycle.</b> - allowed in any traffic lane and on freeways. Insurance required, inspection required, motorcycle driver license required, helmet required. Motorcycle Safety Foundation training recommended.</li>
</ul><p>
So New York State makes a clear distinction between a bicycle and anything with power.  (Segways are handled somewhat differently, but are limited to 12.5 MPH.  New York City prohibits them on sidewalks.)
</p><p>
Realistically, once you pass 20MPH, you have most of the risks of a motorcycle, and may as well get one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Trying to fit these things into traffic in a crowded area is tough .
New York State classifies such vehicles as follows : Motorized Scooters , Mini-Bikes , Dirt Bikes , Go-Karts , Motor Assisted Bicycles - not allowed on streets or highways .
Limited Use Motorcycle , class C ( 20 MPH or less ) - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only .
Insurance not required , inspection not required , motorcycle driver license not required , helmet not required .
Limited Use Motorcycle , class B .
( 20MPH to 30 MPH ) - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only .
Insurance required , inspection not required , motorcycle driver license not required .
helmet required .
Limited Use Motorcycle , class A .
( 30MPH to 40 MPH ) - allowed in any traffic lane .
Insurance required , inspection required , motorcycle driver license required , helmet required .
Motorcycle. - allowed in any traffic lane and on freeways .
Insurance required , inspection required , motorcycle driver license required , helmet required .
Motorcycle Safety Foundation training recommended .
So New York State makes a clear distinction between a bicycle and anything with power .
( Segways are handled somewhat differently , but are limited to 12.5 MPH .
New York City prohibits them on sidewalks .
) Realistically , once you pass 20MPH , you have most of the risks of a motorcycle , and may as well get one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Trying to fit these things into traffic in a crowded area is tough.
New York State classifies such vehicles as follows:


Motorized Scooters, Mini-Bikes, Dirt Bikes, Go-Karts, Motor Assisted Bicycles - not allowed on streets or highways.
Limited Use Motorcycle, class C (20 MPH or less) - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only.
Insurance not required, inspection not required,  motorcycle driver license not required, helmet not required.
Limited Use Motorcycle, class B.
(20MPH to 30 MPH) - allowed in right hand lane or shoulder only.
Insurance required, inspection not required, motorcycle driver license not required.
helmet required.
Limited Use Motorcycle, class A.
(30MPH to 40 MPH) - allowed in any traffic lane.
Insurance required, inspection required, motorcycle driver license required, helmet required.
Motorcycle. - allowed in any traffic lane and on freeways.
Insurance required, inspection required, motorcycle driver license required, helmet required.
Motorcycle Safety Foundation training recommended.
So New York State makes a clear distinction between a bicycle and anything with power.
(Segways are handled somewhat differently, but are limited to 12.5 MPH.
New York City prohibits them on sidewalks.
)

Realistically, once you pass 20MPH, you have most of the risks of a motorcycle, and may as well get one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991820</id>
	<title>Energy</title>
	<author>BlackHawk-666</author>
	<datestamp>1265048400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise, not less, and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea. It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.</p><p>I've been to Amsterdam, spent a few weeks there, and you'd be amazed at how few people are fat in that city - a lot of which can be contributed to the fact the ride everywhere. Compare that to the US, Britain, and even Australia - and it's quite the difference. America of course wins the prize - so if anything you guys need more incentive to ride pushbikes, not less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise , not less , and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea .
It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.I 've been to Amsterdam , spent a few weeks there , and you 'd be amazed at how few people are fat in that city - a lot of which can be contributed to the fact the ride everywhere .
Compare that to the US , Britain , and even Australia - and it 's quite the difference .
America of course wins the prize - so if anything you guys need more incentive to ride pushbikes , not less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In an age when most of us could do with more exercise, not less, and could reduce energy usage not increase it - these seem like a bad idea.
It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people who are obese in either of these countries increase in parallel with the switch to electric bikes.I've been to Amsterdam, spent a few weeks there, and you'd be amazed at how few people are fat in that city - a lot of which can be contributed to the fact the ride everywhere.
Compare that to the US, Britain, and even Australia - and it's quite the difference.
America of course wins the prize - so if anything you guys need more incentive to ride pushbikes, not less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993782</id>
	<title>Re:Ban bikes...</title>
	<author>PeterBrett</author>
	<datestamp>1265117820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...</p></div><p>Unfortunately, this isn't true -- there's actually a high chance of serious injuries to or death of both rider and pedestrian.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...Unfortunately , this is n't true -- there 's actually a high chance of serious injuries to or death of both rider and pedestrian .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...Unfortunately, this isn't true -- there's actually a high chance of serious injuries to or death of both rider and pedestrian.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991956</id>
	<title>Re:Energy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265050200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, the little I remember from Amsterdam is that I don't think most of their physical exercise comes from on a bike - more like between sheets</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , the little I remember from Amsterdam is that I do n't think most of their physical exercise comes from on a bike - more like between sheets</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, the little I remember from Amsterdam is that I don't think most of their physical exercise comes from on a bike - more like between sheets</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991746</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've seen that in other countries.  Amsterdam has a lot of bicycles which look like they are about to disintegrate into component atoms due to the rust damage any minute.</p><p>The reason for this is that here in the US, bikes are somewhat a style thing.  If you are doing road, you have to have the $7000 carbon fiber frame [1] with Dura-Ace or Super Record, or you will be viewed as an amateur.  Similar with a mountain biker coming up to a Cat 1 with anything but XTR or X.0 will be viewed as a hack and told to replace their Huffy with something racable.  If you are touring, you must have the latest custom made Vanilla bike, or you will be viewed as someone who got a DWI.  Even the hipsters "require" a fairly high-zoot frame for their fixies.  A lot of Americans view something like the stereotypical Flying Pigeon from China as a joke.</p><p>[1]:  Of course, we all know how fragile CF is... if you don't have a torque wrench and crank a tad too much adjusting your seatpost, expect the thing to break and have a jagged spear pointed right at your bum.  However, since CF is light and cool looking, it is the style now... even though a CF bike frame has to be thrown in the trash if it gets even the slightest gouge or crack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen that in other countries .
Amsterdam has a lot of bicycles which look like they are about to disintegrate into component atoms due to the rust damage any minute.The reason for this is that here in the US , bikes are somewhat a style thing .
If you are doing road , you have to have the $ 7000 carbon fiber frame [ 1 ] with Dura-Ace or Super Record , or you will be viewed as an amateur .
Similar with a mountain biker coming up to a Cat 1 with anything but XTR or X.0 will be viewed as a hack and told to replace their Huffy with something racable .
If you are touring , you must have the latest custom made Vanilla bike , or you will be viewed as someone who got a DWI .
Even the hipsters " require " a fairly high-zoot frame for their fixies .
A lot of Americans view something like the stereotypical Flying Pigeon from China as a joke .
[ 1 ] : Of course , we all know how fragile CF is... if you do n't have a torque wrench and crank a tad too much adjusting your seatpost , expect the thing to break and have a jagged spear pointed right at your bum .
However , since CF is light and cool looking , it is the style now... even though a CF bike frame has to be thrown in the trash if it gets even the slightest gouge or crack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen that in other countries.
Amsterdam has a lot of bicycles which look like they are about to disintegrate into component atoms due to the rust damage any minute.The reason for this is that here in the US, bikes are somewhat a style thing.
If you are doing road, you have to have the $7000 carbon fiber frame [1] with Dura-Ace or Super Record, or you will be viewed as an amateur.
Similar with a mountain biker coming up to a Cat 1 with anything but XTR or X.0 will be viewed as a hack and told to replace their Huffy with something racable.
If you are touring, you must have the latest custom made Vanilla bike, or you will be viewed as someone who got a DWI.
Even the hipsters "require" a fairly high-zoot frame for their fixies.
A lot of Americans view something like the stereotypical Flying Pigeon from China as a joke.
[1]:  Of course, we all know how fragile CF is... if you don't have a torque wrench and crank a tad too much adjusting your seatpost, expect the thing to break and have a jagged spear pointed right at your bum.
However, since CF is light and cool looking, it is the style now... even though a CF bike frame has to be thrown in the trash if it gets even the slightest gouge or crack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994408</id>
	<title>Bicycle usage correlates with hills</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1265122380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In a reverse manner.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a reverse manner .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a reverse manner.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992264</id>
	<title>Typical demographic</title>
	<author>acey72</author>
	<datestamp>1265140800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You see plenty of them here in Cambridge, UK, but they generally tend to be ridden by the sort of people who would really benefit from having to pedal their bikes...</htmltext>
<tokenext>You see plenty of them here in Cambridge , UK , but they generally tend to be ridden by the sort of people who would really benefit from having to pedal their bikes.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You see plenty of them here in Cambridge, UK, but they generally tend to be ridden by the sort of people who would really benefit from having to pedal their bikes...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992008</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1265050740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do you want to happen? Apparently, the civil lawsuit isn't finished yet. The driver wasn't drunk (he was tested right away). He stopped. And he didn't know the victims. Do you want to put the driver in prison for the next ten years? What else are you suggesting?</p><p>He should definitely pay for what he did, but in the form of financial restitution. Personally, I'm sorry this happened, but as long as this isn't a pattern -- I'd rather not have my tax dollars be used in locking this guy up for years. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you want to happen ?
Apparently , the civil lawsuit is n't finished yet .
The driver was n't drunk ( he was tested right away ) .
He stopped .
And he did n't know the victims .
Do you want to put the driver in prison for the next ten years ?
What else are you suggesting ? He should definitely pay for what he did , but in the form of financial restitution .
Personally , I 'm sorry this happened , but as long as this is n't a pattern -- I 'd rather not have my tax dollars be used in locking this guy up for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you want to happen?
Apparently, the civil lawsuit isn't finished yet.
The driver wasn't drunk (he was tested right away).
He stopped.
And he didn't know the victims.
Do you want to put the driver in prison for the next ten years?
What else are you suggesting?He should definitely pay for what he did, but in the form of financial restitution.
Personally, I'm sorry this happened, but as long as this isn't a pattern -- I'd rather not have my tax dollars be used in locking this guy up for years. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992880</id>
	<title>Re:Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>AVee</author>
	<datestamp>1265108400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>More likely good old fashioned protectionism.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More likely good old fashioned protectionism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More likely good old fashioned protectionism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992240</id>
	<title>I ride an e-bike in China</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1265054100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've ridden an e-bike in China for years.  Let me tell you what I've learned, in a disordered jumble of statements.</p><p>E-bikes are fine IFF (if and only if) you live in a compact city.  My city is five miles across.  If it were larger, (say, Austin-sized) an e-bike would not really be an option.  My rule of thumb for battery life is "thirty minutes out, thirty minutes back" which limits your radius of action.  An e-bike is a hell of a lot heavier than a regular bike due to the dense batteries.  The batteries are in a removable container, so you can take them out and charge them.  Let me tell you, it sucks carrying the equivalent of a car battery upstairs to charge every day.  When thieves can't be bothered to steal your whole bike, they'll just rip out the batteries.  You can charge up directly in the bike, but then you need a safe, secure area to park your bike on the 1st floor, AND it must be supplied with electricity.  This is a real deal-killer for most apartments in America.  My apartment in China has a special closet on the 1st floor where I can lock my bike up, and the electricity comes from my meter.  Let's see...oh yeah you'll be subject to all the nasty weather of bikes, and in winter you really get blasted by the wind in your face (because you can go so much faster than a bike).  I've had it before where it was so cold, I could barely see from all the tears streaming out of my eyes.  With special bike raincoats, you can get through the rain pretty well, although your feet will get wet, and you need a ballcap to keep the rain out of your eyes.  The e-bikes constantly have stuff break on them.  I spend $5-10 per month on repairs of various things that break...the last breakage was the rear taillight and the rear brake cable.  E-bike drum brakes make an unholy shriek when using them to stop.  China has a whole network of dedicated bike lanes that really make using e-bikes a breeze.  I wouldn't fancy riding out on the street with cars and bicycles.  What else...hmm...E-bikes are a lot of fun to ride around.  They zip through traffic with ease.  It's nice not having to pay any attention to red lights other than "is traffic coming?"  Shopping can be a pain, some of the scooter-like e-bikes have almost no cargo space.  The e-bikes that look like bikes with batteries attached usually have bike baskets and other storage paraphernalia.  Don't keep anything in the storage for more than one trip, because thieves will just break in and steal whatever you have.  Forget using the pedals if you run out of batteries, it's very tiring to pedal the bike, better just to get off and walk the thing.  Running out of batteries sucks.  You either walk your happy ass all the way home, or get a truck taxi to take you.  You do have truck taxis cruising the streets in your city in America, right?  </p><p>To sum up, e-bikes are fun and great but you have to have a whole supporting infrastructure to make them worthwhile.  I love mine in China but I'd never be stupid enough to ride one in America, unless I was one of those young single people who never leaves the inner city.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've ridden an e-bike in China for years .
Let me tell you what I 've learned , in a disordered jumble of statements.E-bikes are fine IFF ( if and only if ) you live in a compact city .
My city is five miles across .
If it were larger , ( say , Austin-sized ) an e-bike would not really be an option .
My rule of thumb for battery life is " thirty minutes out , thirty minutes back " which limits your radius of action .
An e-bike is a hell of a lot heavier than a regular bike due to the dense batteries .
The batteries are in a removable container , so you can take them out and charge them .
Let me tell you , it sucks carrying the equivalent of a car battery upstairs to charge every day .
When thieves ca n't be bothered to steal your whole bike , they 'll just rip out the batteries .
You can charge up directly in the bike , but then you need a safe , secure area to park your bike on the 1st floor , AND it must be supplied with electricity .
This is a real deal-killer for most apartments in America .
My apartment in China has a special closet on the 1st floor where I can lock my bike up , and the electricity comes from my meter .
Let 's see...oh yeah you 'll be subject to all the nasty weather of bikes , and in winter you really get blasted by the wind in your face ( because you can go so much faster than a bike ) .
I 've had it before where it was so cold , I could barely see from all the tears streaming out of my eyes .
With special bike raincoats , you can get through the rain pretty well , although your feet will get wet , and you need a ballcap to keep the rain out of your eyes .
The e-bikes constantly have stuff break on them .
I spend $ 5-10 per month on repairs of various things that break...the last breakage was the rear taillight and the rear brake cable .
E-bike drum brakes make an unholy shriek when using them to stop .
China has a whole network of dedicated bike lanes that really make using e-bikes a breeze .
I would n't fancy riding out on the street with cars and bicycles .
What else...hmm...E-bikes are a lot of fun to ride around .
They zip through traffic with ease .
It 's nice not having to pay any attention to red lights other than " is traffic coming ?
" Shopping can be a pain , some of the scooter-like e-bikes have almost no cargo space .
The e-bikes that look like bikes with batteries attached usually have bike baskets and other storage paraphernalia .
Do n't keep anything in the storage for more than one trip , because thieves will just break in and steal whatever you have .
Forget using the pedals if you run out of batteries , it 's very tiring to pedal the bike , better just to get off and walk the thing .
Running out of batteries sucks .
You either walk your happy ass all the way home , or get a truck taxi to take you .
You do have truck taxis cruising the streets in your city in America , right ?
To sum up , e-bikes are fun and great but you have to have a whole supporting infrastructure to make them worthwhile .
I love mine in China but I 'd never be stupid enough to ride one in America , unless I was one of those young single people who never leaves the inner city .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've ridden an e-bike in China for years.
Let me tell you what I've learned, in a disordered jumble of statements.E-bikes are fine IFF (if and only if) you live in a compact city.
My city is five miles across.
If it were larger, (say, Austin-sized) an e-bike would not really be an option.
My rule of thumb for battery life is "thirty minutes out, thirty minutes back" which limits your radius of action.
An e-bike is a hell of a lot heavier than a regular bike due to the dense batteries.
The batteries are in a removable container, so you can take them out and charge them.
Let me tell you, it sucks carrying the equivalent of a car battery upstairs to charge every day.
When thieves can't be bothered to steal your whole bike, they'll just rip out the batteries.
You can charge up directly in the bike, but then you need a safe, secure area to park your bike on the 1st floor, AND it must be supplied with electricity.
This is a real deal-killer for most apartments in America.
My apartment in China has a special closet on the 1st floor where I can lock my bike up, and the electricity comes from my meter.
Let's see...oh yeah you'll be subject to all the nasty weather of bikes, and in winter you really get blasted by the wind in your face (because you can go so much faster than a bike).
I've had it before where it was so cold, I could barely see from all the tears streaming out of my eyes.
With special bike raincoats, you can get through the rain pretty well, although your feet will get wet, and you need a ballcap to keep the rain out of your eyes.
The e-bikes constantly have stuff break on them.
I spend $5-10 per month on repairs of various things that break...the last breakage was the rear taillight and the rear brake cable.
E-bike drum brakes make an unholy shriek when using them to stop.
China has a whole network of dedicated bike lanes that really make using e-bikes a breeze.
I wouldn't fancy riding out on the street with cars and bicycles.
What else...hmm...E-bikes are a lot of fun to ride around.
They zip through traffic with ease.
It's nice not having to pay any attention to red lights other than "is traffic coming?
"  Shopping can be a pain, some of the scooter-like e-bikes have almost no cargo space.
The e-bikes that look like bikes with batteries attached usually have bike baskets and other storage paraphernalia.
Don't keep anything in the storage for more than one trip, because thieves will just break in and steal whatever you have.
Forget using the pedals if you run out of batteries, it's very tiring to pedal the bike, better just to get off and walk the thing.
Running out of batteries sucks.
You either walk your happy ass all the way home, or get a truck taxi to take you.
You do have truck taxis cruising the streets in your city in America, right?
To sum up, e-bikes are fun and great but you have to have a whole supporting infrastructure to make them worthwhile.
I love mine in China but I'd never be stupid enough to ride one in America, unless I was one of those young single people who never leaves the inner city.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</id>
	<title>Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265046960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know a guy who, after a trip to China a couple years ago, decided to start up an electric bike business in Portland, Oregon which is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the US.  He originally wanted to import the bikes from China, but due to trade restrictions, he couldn't bring in bikes which he could sell here for $US400-600 and instead had to fill his new shop with US and European models that cost 3 to 5 times more.<br>
He did his research, so it wasn't like the Chinese bikes were painted with lead and made by slave labor or anything.  Anyone have any idea why electric bikes would be on the import no-no list?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know a guy who , after a trip to China a couple years ago , decided to start up an electric bike business in Portland , Oregon which is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the US .
He originally wanted to import the bikes from China , but due to trade restrictions , he could n't bring in bikes which he could sell here for $ US400-600 and instead had to fill his new shop with US and European models that cost 3 to 5 times more .
He did his research , so it was n't like the Chinese bikes were painted with lead and made by slave labor or anything .
Anyone have any idea why electric bikes would be on the import no-no list ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know a guy who, after a trip to China a couple years ago, decided to start up an electric bike business in Portland, Oregon which is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the US.
He originally wanted to import the bikes from China, but due to trade restrictions, he couldn't bring in bikes which he could sell here for $US400-600 and instead had to fill his new shop with US and European models that cost 3 to 5 times more.
He did his research, so it wasn't like the Chinese bikes were painted with lead and made by slave labor or anything.
Anyone have any idea why electric bikes would be on the import no-no list?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992430</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Phoobarnvaz</author>
	<datestamp>1265143380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Had seriously considered the electric bike route about a year ago. With the chemicals of the batteries...the weight &amp; the cost of replacement...decided to head the "standard" route of going with a 4 stroke gas engine. It's not zero emissions...but I can replace a gas engine for a cheaper cost than batteries. You have to remember that you usually replace all the batteries...not just one. <br> <br>

I can get around 150-200 miles per gallon of gas...compared to 50-80 miles on a charge for an electric. Plus...I don't suffer the problems with heat or degradation of the chemical in the battery. No one talks about these items...but you better consider them...especially as I can keep on going when you've run out of juice. When these drawbacks get worked out...if ever...battery powered bikes will be a great option...just not yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Had seriously considered the electric bike route about a year ago .
With the chemicals of the batteries...the weight &amp; the cost of replacement...decided to head the " standard " route of going with a 4 stroke gas engine .
It 's not zero emissions...but I can replace a gas engine for a cheaper cost than batteries .
You have to remember that you usually replace all the batteries...not just one .
I can get around 150-200 miles per gallon of gas...compared to 50-80 miles on a charge for an electric .
Plus...I do n't suffer the problems with heat or degradation of the chemical in the battery .
No one talks about these items...but you better consider them...especially as I can keep on going when you 've run out of juice .
When these drawbacks get worked out...if ever...battery powered bikes will be a great option...just not yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Had seriously considered the electric bike route about a year ago.
With the chemicals of the batteries...the weight &amp; the cost of replacement...decided to head the "standard" route of going with a 4 stroke gas engine.
It's not zero emissions...but I can replace a gas engine for a cheaper cost than batteries.
You have to remember that you usually replace all the batteries...not just one.
I can get around 150-200 miles per gallon of gas...compared to 50-80 miles on a charge for an electric.
Plus...I don't suffer the problems with heat or degradation of the chemical in the battery.
No one talks about these items...but you better consider them...especially as I can keep on going when you've run out of juice.
When these drawbacks get worked out...if ever...battery powered bikes will be a great option...just not yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993656</id>
	<title>superbanana used to be</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1265116680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a cheerful environmentalist superhero</p><p>but after the accident, he turned to bitter rants</p><p>nowadays superbanana can be found under the highway overpass, yelling at tourists on segways, blustering about the threat of hipster retards, drunk on 100\% organic free trade prison hooch</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a cheerful environmentalist superherobut after the accident , he turned to bitter rantsnowadays superbanana can be found under the highway overpass , yelling at tourists on segways , blustering about the threat of hipster retards , drunk on 100 \ % organic free trade prison hooch</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a cheerful environmentalist superherobut after the accident, he turned to bitter rantsnowadays superbanana can be found under the highway overpass, yelling at tourists on segways, blustering about the threat of hipster retards, drunk on 100\% organic free trade prison hooch</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992010</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265050800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits, and around here do.<br>Should they be banned from the bike lanes? what exactly is the bike lane speed limit?</p><p>I would love to see what would happen if someone did try and enforce a nice and slow and safe limit on them, i bet a rather vocal group of riders would go nuts.</p><p>Also, to address your other BS.</p><p>Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past? they are VERY hard to spot, especially when going fast (as they often are), that is why riders must take care - I ride motorcycles, and we get the same problem, except hitting something much faster, attached to something much heavier, kills us more often... you know what we do? take care!</p><p>And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUV, you are just showing everyone your own personal bias and one eyed view of transportation. Stop thinking you are so perfect and deal with the real world, as the rest of us do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits , and around here do.Should they be banned from the bike lanes ?
what exactly is the bike lane speed limit ? I would love to see what would happen if someone did try and enforce a nice and slow and safe limit on them , i bet a rather vocal group of riders would go nuts.Also , to address your other BS.Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past ?
they are VERY hard to spot , especially when going fast ( as they often are ) , that is why riders must take care - I ride motorcycles , and we get the same problem , except hitting something much faster , attached to something much heavier , kills us more often... you know what we do ?
take care ! And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUV , you are just showing everyone your own personal bias and one eyed view of transportation .
Stop thinking you are so perfect and deal with the real world , as the rest of us do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many cyclists who are capable of traveling at or above the urban speed limits, and around here do.Should they be banned from the bike lanes?
what exactly is the bike lane speed limit?I would love to see what would happen if someone did try and enforce a nice and slow and safe limit on them, i bet a rather vocal group of riders would go nuts.Also, to address your other BS.Have you looked in the rear vision mirror of a parked car when bikes are coming past?
they are VERY hard to spot, especially when going fast (as they often are), that is why riders must take care - I ride motorcycles, and we get the same problem, except hitting something much faster, attached to something much heavier, kills us more often... you know what we do?
take care!And there is NO moped in the world that makes more pollution than an SUV, you are just showing everyone your own personal bias and one eyed view of transportation.
Stop thinking you are so perfect and deal with the real world, as the rest of us do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1265048280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder about how safe they are. My heart rate scales with the speed I travel and my reflexes tend to scale the same way. Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.</p><p>The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow, and sometime I need to go very fast. A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder about how safe they are .
My heart rate scales with the speed I travel and my reflexes tend to scale the same way .
Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow , and sometime I need to go very fast .
A power limited electric motor ca n't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder about how safe they are.
My heart rate scales with the speed I travel and my reflexes tend to scale the same way.
Sometimes I get scared riding with a strong tail wind because I feel that I am going faster than my body is setup to do.The other thing is that sometimes I need to go slow, and sometime I need to go very fast.
A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991666</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992332</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>wiredlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1265142120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I know all of the electric bikes are designed to top out their power assist at 20mph. This is how they avoid classification as a moped (with requisite MV registration) in those states that don't ban e-bikes outright. There is still going to be some disparity in speed between them and a larger motor vehicle on most roads. While you can pedal them to faster speeds, nobody is going to do that because they weigh a ton and are a chore to accelerate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I know all of the electric bikes are designed to top out their power assist at 20mph .
This is how they avoid classification as a moped ( with requisite MV registration ) in those states that do n't ban e-bikes outright .
There is still going to be some disparity in speed between them and a larger motor vehicle on most roads .
While you can pedal them to faster speeds , nobody is going to do that because they weigh a ton and are a chore to accelerate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I know all of the electric bikes are designed to top out their power assist at 20mph.
This is how they avoid classification as a moped (with requisite MV registration) in those states that don't ban e-bikes outright.
There is still going to be some disparity in speed between them and a larger motor vehicle on most roads.
While you can pedal them to faster speeds, nobody is going to do that because they weigh a ton and are a chore to accelerate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993028</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>j\_sp\_r</author>
	<datestamp>1265110560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Amsterdam (and most Dutch cities) there is absolutely no place to park your bike inside. So they are left outside all year long (in the rain) for about 20 years and stolen 5 times between that. Most students have one or more bikes (for parts or in different towns) that lay around in the city and should be as cheap as possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Amsterdam ( and most Dutch cities ) there is absolutely no place to park your bike inside .
So they are left outside all year long ( in the rain ) for about 20 years and stolen 5 times between that .
Most students have one or more bikes ( for parts or in different towns ) that lay around in the city and should be as cheap as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Amsterdam (and most Dutch cities) there is absolutely no place to park your bike inside.
So they are left outside all year long (in the rain) for about 20 years and stolen 5 times between that.
Most students have one or more bikes (for parts or in different towns) that lay around in the city and should be as cheap as possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992496</id>
	<title>Americans are lazy and built around outdated infra</title>
	<author>canadian\_in\_beijing</author>
	<datestamp>1265101320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>First of all, bikes in China are not produced to western standards either technically (safety standards: saw one blow up in flames while parked), fashionably (clunky, heavy, etc) or socially acceptable.  Majority of consumers in the US ride bikes for leisure purposes.  Some take the stand of being environmentally friendly or dissing long commute times, but basically it's for an image.  Biking around with 20+kg of weight is neither comfortable or convenient.  Exercise = pedaling and consumers pay for light weight bikes, not heavy electric bikes.  When you turn on an electric motor the majority would rather hop in a car with air con/heater/stereo/etc.  Then you start to get into infrastructure... originally Beijing was built around 90\% bikes and 10\% cars, people grew up accepting bikes as the main mode of transportation and this gradually progressed into todays ring road system (huge nightmare with the on/off ramps... other story)... the US grew up the other way with cars being the main method of transportation.  On top of that you have the US desire for instant gratification... time = money.  In terms of cars vs bikes... cars will always win with consumers focused on faster commute times with less energy.  Those that don't see this are in the minority.  When gas triples in price this might be another story... but by then cars will likely be electric anyway.  I can see some Europeans buying into electric bikes due to the city infrastructure but Americans are built around highways and cars... good luck changing this except in very select high density areas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all , bikes in China are not produced to western standards either technically ( safety standards : saw one blow up in flames while parked ) , fashionably ( clunky , heavy , etc ) or socially acceptable .
Majority of consumers in the US ride bikes for leisure purposes .
Some take the stand of being environmentally friendly or dissing long commute times , but basically it 's for an image .
Biking around with 20 + kg of weight is neither comfortable or convenient .
Exercise = pedaling and consumers pay for light weight bikes , not heavy electric bikes .
When you turn on an electric motor the majority would rather hop in a car with air con/heater/stereo/etc .
Then you start to get into infrastructure... originally Beijing was built around 90 \ % bikes and 10 \ % cars , people grew up accepting bikes as the main mode of transportation and this gradually progressed into todays ring road system ( huge nightmare with the on/off ramps... other story ) ... the US grew up the other way with cars being the main method of transportation .
On top of that you have the US desire for instant gratification... time = money .
In terms of cars vs bikes... cars will always win with consumers focused on faster commute times with less energy .
Those that do n't see this are in the minority .
When gas triples in price this might be another story... but by then cars will likely be electric anyway .
I can see some Europeans buying into electric bikes due to the city infrastructure but Americans are built around highways and cars... good luck changing this except in very select high density areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all, bikes in China are not produced to western standards either technically (safety standards: saw one blow up in flames while parked), fashionably (clunky, heavy, etc) or socially acceptable.
Majority of consumers in the US ride bikes for leisure purposes.
Some take the stand of being environmentally friendly or dissing long commute times, but basically it's for an image.
Biking around with 20+kg of weight is neither comfortable or convenient.
Exercise = pedaling and consumers pay for light weight bikes, not heavy electric bikes.
When you turn on an electric motor the majority would rather hop in a car with air con/heater/stereo/etc.
Then you start to get into infrastructure... originally Beijing was built around 90\% bikes and 10\% cars, people grew up accepting bikes as the main mode of transportation and this gradually progressed into todays ring road system (huge nightmare with the on/off ramps... other story)... the US grew up the other way with cars being the main method of transportation.
On top of that you have the US desire for instant gratification... time = money.
In terms of cars vs bikes... cars will always win with consumers focused on faster commute times with less energy.
Those that don't see this are in the minority.
When gas triples in price this might be another story... but by then cars will likely be electric anyway.
I can see some Europeans buying into electric bikes due to the city infrastructure but Americans are built around highways and cars... good luck changing this except in very select high density areas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994152</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265120880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in &#214;rebro, Sweden, most of our bike paths are separate networks. We just have to watch out for stupid moped drivers. However, if you go downtown, you'll have to bike on the main roads (which may or may not have a bike lane). Luckily these main downtown roads are supposed to be "car-free" (not bus and taxi free, and there are a lot of cars "delivering good" it seems). I bike to work no matter what the weather. Quick, easy and safe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in   rebro , Sweden , most of our bike paths are separate networks .
We just have to watch out for stupid moped drivers .
However , if you go downtown , you 'll have to bike on the main roads ( which may or may not have a bike lane ) .
Luckily these main downtown roads are supposed to be " car-free " ( not bus and taxi free , and there are a lot of cars " delivering good " it seems ) .
I bike to work no matter what the weather .
Quick , easy and safe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Örebro, Sweden, most of our bike paths are separate networks.
We just have to watch out for stupid moped drivers.
However, if you go downtown, you'll have to bike on the main roads (which may or may not have a bike lane).
Luckily these main downtown roads are supposed to be "car-free" (not bus and taxi free, and there are a lot of cars "delivering good" it seems).
I bike to work no matter what the weather.
Quick, easy and safe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</id>
	<title>yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1265053080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, you condescending fuckhead, I know "the road is not a playground".

</p><p>In one case I was hit from behind while making a legal left turn from a left-turn only lane, by a guy who went straight, illegally.  In the second case, I was doored.  The driver flung open her door while I was going about 10-12 MPH, right in front of me.  I had just enough time to notice the door opening before I found myself flying through the air upside-down, looking at the cars behind me, and thinking "oh please, may I not get run over."

</p><p>I had a cabbie make an oncoming left turn straight at me at an intersection, and then scream at me to get the fuck out of his way.

</p><p>I had a valet parking attendant cut me off coming out of a parking lot- in the process of avoiding him, I went over the handlebars and landed in the road.  He laughed.

</p><p>I know people on a student cycling team who have been out on group training rides and had drivers on side-streets (or making oncoming left turns) drive right into the middle of the pack (with the cyclist hitting the side of the car, usually at +15 mph.) This happens about twice a year, and usually puts the cyclist in the hospital and completely destroys their bike.

</p><p>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists?  Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.  It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.

</p><p> <i> It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves!</i>

</p><p>And then, by extension, the victims (let's not beat around the bush here- "the at-risk", my ass) if they don't protect themselves, deserve what they get?  I suppose you tell rape victims that they shouldn't have dressed slutty? Or how about telling domestic violence victims that they shouldn't have made their partner angry? Society does not work by lecturing the victims- we punishing the criminals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , you condescending fuckhead , I know " the road is not a playground " .
In one case I was hit from behind while making a legal left turn from a left-turn only lane , by a guy who went straight , illegally .
In the second case , I was doored .
The driver flung open her door while I was going about 10-12 MPH , right in front of me .
I had just enough time to notice the door opening before I found myself flying through the air upside-down , looking at the cars behind me , and thinking " oh please , may I not get run over .
" I had a cabbie make an oncoming left turn straight at me at an intersection , and then scream at me to get the fuck out of his way .
I had a valet parking attendant cut me off coming out of a parking lot- in the process of avoiding him , I went over the handlebars and landed in the road .
He laughed .
I know people on a student cycling team who have been out on group training rides and had drivers on side-streets ( or making oncoming left turns ) drive right into the middle of the pack ( with the cyclist hitting the side of the car , usually at + 15 mph .
) This happens about twice a year , and usually puts the cyclist in the hospital and completely destroys their bike .
Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to " scare " cyclists ?
Two of them could n't stop in time , and they smashed into his back window .
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists .
It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves !
And then , by extension , the victims ( let 's not beat around the bush here- " the at-risk " , my ass ) if they do n't protect themselves , deserve what they get ?
I suppose you tell rape victims that they should n't have dressed slutty ?
Or how about telling domestic violence victims that they should n't have made their partner angry ?
Society does not work by lecturing the victims- we punishing the criminals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, you condescending fuckhead, I know "the road is not a playground".
In one case I was hit from behind while making a legal left turn from a left-turn only lane, by a guy who went straight, illegally.
In the second case, I was doored.
The driver flung open her door while I was going about 10-12 MPH, right in front of me.
I had just enough time to notice the door opening before I found myself flying through the air upside-down, looking at the cars behind me, and thinking "oh please, may I not get run over.
"

I had a cabbie make an oncoming left turn straight at me at an intersection, and then scream at me to get the fuck out of his way.
I had a valet parking attendant cut me off coming out of a parking lot- in the process of avoiding him, I went over the handlebars and landed in the road.
He laughed.
I know people on a student cycling team who have been out on group training rides and had drivers on side-streets (or making oncoming left turns) drive right into the middle of the pack (with the cyclist hitting the side of the car, usually at +15 mph.
) This happens about twice a year, and usually puts the cyclist in the hospital and completely destroys their bike.
Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists?
Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.
It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves!
And then, by extension, the victims (let's not beat around the bush here- "the at-risk", my ass) if they don't protect themselves, deserve what they get?
I suppose you tell rape victims that they shouldn't have dressed slutty?
Or how about telling domestic violence victims that they shouldn't have made their partner angry?
Society does not work by lecturing the victims- we punishing the criminals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992472</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265144160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't a powered electric bike allow you to go even faster? As for reflexes, I don't see why you can't train yourself to do better if that's a problem for you. People manage to cope with driving cars, flying RC helis, and playing FPSs without needing an active heart rate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't a powered electric bike allow you to go even faster ?
As for reflexes , I do n't see why you ca n't train yourself to do better if that 's a problem for you .
People manage to cope with driving cars , flying RC helis , and playing FPSs without needing an active heart rate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't a powered electric bike allow you to go even faster?
As for reflexes, I don't see why you can't train yourself to do better if that's a problem for you.
People manage to cope with driving cars, flying RC helis, and playing FPSs without needing an active heart rate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992948</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>shermozle</author>
	<datestamp>1265109480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WTF are you doing riding in the door zone?  If some idiot road designer has painted some bike logos within a metre of car doors, that doesn't mean you should ride  on it!</p><p>I've never been doored because I don't ride anywhere near doors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF are you doing riding in the door zone ?
If some idiot road designer has painted some bike logos within a metre of car doors , that does n't mean you should ride on it ! I 've never been doored because I do n't ride anywhere near doors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF are you doing riding in the door zone?
If some idiot road designer has painted some bike logos within a metre of car doors, that doesn't mean you should ride  on it!I've never been doored because I don't ride anywhere near doors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31010856</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>drsquare</author>
	<datestamp>1264957920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American. In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.</p></div></blockquote><p>And throw-it-away-and-buy-another-one-from-China is the American motto.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find this behavior quite foreign to me , but I suppose that 's because I 'm an American .
In short , leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.And throw-it-away-and-buy-another-one-from-China is the American motto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find this behavior quite foreign to me, but I suppose that's because I'm an American.
In short, leave-it-out-to-rust is the Chinese motto.And throw-it-away-and-buy-another-one-from-China is the American motto.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992180</id>
	<title>fule cost are why</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1265053200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>lets face it fuel cost are a joke these days. i even have looked into a electric moped the model i am looking at goes 60 and has a 85 mile range all battery powered. a street legile model in other words. most of your driving is to work or around town and that little moped would fufill my needs for almost all my driving.and i live in a state that mostly warm year round. my fule burning car would only be driving on long trips or on the freeway being i woudlent dare take anything that small and noiseless on a freeway even thow its legile to do so. i also see alot more gas powerd ones running around hear more and more every year they get crazy mpg abought the same as the eltric model i am looking at but with fuel of course. why pay crazy fule price whatever amount they dedcide to gourge on this year when for a cuple grand you can get a small ultra efficient means to get around..fuled or otherwise. nut any kind of bike has its risk on the road drivers just dont respect bikes at all in the usa why thers so many accidents on them.. .</htmltext>
<tokenext>lets face it fuel cost are a joke these days .
i even have looked into a electric moped the model i am looking at goes 60 and has a 85 mile range all battery powered .
a street legile model in other words .
most of your driving is to work or around town and that little moped would fufill my needs for almost all my driving.and i live in a state that mostly warm year round .
my fule burning car would only be driving on long trips or on the freeway being i woudlent dare take anything that small and noiseless on a freeway even thow its legile to do so .
i also see alot more gas powerd ones running around hear more and more every year they get crazy mpg abought the same as the eltric model i am looking at but with fuel of course .
why pay crazy fule price whatever amount they dedcide to gourge on this year when for a cuple grand you can get a small ultra efficient means to get around..fuled or otherwise .
nut any kind of bike has its risk on the road drivers just dont respect bikes at all in the usa why thers so many accidents on them.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lets face it fuel cost are a joke these days.
i even have looked into a electric moped the model i am looking at goes 60 and has a 85 mile range all battery powered.
a street legile model in other words.
most of your driving is to work or around town and that little moped would fufill my needs for almost all my driving.and i live in a state that mostly warm year round.
my fule burning car would only be driving on long trips or on the freeway being i woudlent dare take anything that small and noiseless on a freeway even thow its legile to do so.
i also see alot more gas powerd ones running around hear more and more every year they get crazy mpg abought the same as the eltric model i am looking at but with fuel of course.
why pay crazy fule price whatever amount they dedcide to gourge on this year when for a cuple grand you can get a small ultra efficient means to get around..fuled or otherwise.
nut any kind of bike has its risk on the road drivers just dont respect bikes at all in the usa why thers so many accidents on them.. .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994142</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>bkr1\_2k</author>
	<datestamp>1265120820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is then you have contention between cyclists and actual pedestrians, which happens far more frequently than when cyclists use the roads.  It also nearly always injures both the cyclist and however many pedestrians get in the way of the now out of control bicycle.</p><p>If you pay attention to cyclists on the road, there is no problem because we don't generally want to get hit either.  It's not hard to slow down a little and give a little more space as you go by a cyclist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is then you have contention between cyclists and actual pedestrians , which happens far more frequently than when cyclists use the roads .
It also nearly always injures both the cyclist and however many pedestrians get in the way of the now out of control bicycle.If you pay attention to cyclists on the road , there is no problem because we do n't generally want to get hit either .
It 's not hard to slow down a little and give a little more space as you go by a cyclist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is then you have contention between cyclists and actual pedestrians, which happens far more frequently than when cyclists use the roads.
It also nearly always injures both the cyclist and however many pedestrians get in the way of the now out of control bicycle.If you pay attention to cyclists on the road, there is no problem because we don't generally want to get hit either.
It's not hard to slow down a little and give a little more space as you go by a cyclist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992656</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994516</id>
	<title>Better planning</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265122980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like to ride my bike to work.  It is about 40 minutes each way.  Nice an calm except that 15 minutes of terror while I have to cross the freeway (zero way around) and then safely navigate through 20 square block where the cops fear to even go.  No matter how I cut it I must cross at least one freeway (takes about 5 minutes) and if I want to avoid the nasty neighborhood then I must cross two freeways (and travel down the second one for about 5 minutes).  The safer route actually adds about 40 extra minutes to my 40 minute route.</p><p>This could be solved if the city built a bike path or even a traversalable path along the stream that snakes from near my home to near my work (down town).  The city council does not really encourage alternative solutions &ndash; the current &lsquo;bike&rsquo; paths are rough are composed of a lose gravel/sand mix.  Part of the city council&rsquo;s reasoning:  it keeps those darn roller blading kids off their &lsquo;walking&rsquo; paths.</p><p>The last city I lived in I could roller blade or bike to pretty much every corner of the city.  I hardly ever need to use my car.  It was great.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like to ride my bike to work .
It is about 40 minutes each way .
Nice an calm except that 15 minutes of terror while I have to cross the freeway ( zero way around ) and then safely navigate through 20 square block where the cops fear to even go .
No matter how I cut it I must cross at least one freeway ( takes about 5 minutes ) and if I want to avoid the nasty neighborhood then I must cross two freeways ( and travel down the second one for about 5 minutes ) .
The safer route actually adds about 40 extra minutes to my 40 minute route.This could be solved if the city built a bike path or even a traversalable path along the stream that snakes from near my home to near my work ( down town ) .
The city council does not really encourage alternative solutions    the current    bike    paths are rough are composed of a lose gravel/sand mix .
Part of the city council    s reasoning : it keeps those darn roller blading kids off their    walking    paths.The last city I lived in I could roller blade or bike to pretty much every corner of the city .
I hardly ever need to use my car .
It was great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like to ride my bike to work.
It is about 40 minutes each way.
Nice an calm except that 15 minutes of terror while I have to cross the freeway (zero way around) and then safely navigate through 20 square block where the cops fear to even go.
No matter how I cut it I must cross at least one freeway (takes about 5 minutes) and if I want to avoid the nasty neighborhood then I must cross two freeways (and travel down the second one for about 5 minutes).
The safer route actually adds about 40 extra minutes to my 40 minute route.This could be solved if the city built a bike path or even a traversalable path along the stream that snakes from near my home to near my work (down town).
The city council does not really encourage alternative solutions – the current ‘bike’ paths are rough are composed of a lose gravel/sand mix.
Part of the city council’s reasoning:  it keeps those darn roller blading kids off their ‘walking’ paths.The last city I lived in I could roller blade or bike to pretty much every corner of the city.
I hardly ever need to use my car.
It was great.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992452</id>
	<title>Motorcycles vs electric in cities</title>
	<author>good water</author>
	<datestamp>1265143740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>

In many cities in China, including the major cities, motorcycles are not allowed within the city limits, this is one of the main reasons people opt for elec. bicycles though not the only one of course.  As the article mentions these bikes are more and more like actual motorcycles while at the same time the driver is not required to have a license.  Imagine thousands of "motorcycles" swarming around at high speed without a sound, other than sound of the breaks...</htmltext>
<tokenext>In many cities in China , including the major cities , motorcycles are not allowed within the city limits , this is one of the main reasons people opt for elec .
bicycles though not the only one of course .
As the article mentions these bikes are more and more like actual motorcycles while at the same time the driver is not required to have a license .
Imagine thousands of " motorcycles " swarming around at high speed without a sound , other than sound of the breaks.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

In many cities in China, including the major cities, motorcycles are not allowed within the city limits, this is one of the main reasons people opt for elec.
bicycles though not the only one of course.
As the article mentions these bikes are more and more like actual motorcycles while at the same time the driver is not required to have a license.
Imagine thousands of "motorcycles" swarming around at high speed without a sound, other than sound of the breaks...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30995880</id>
	<title>In Other News...</title>
	<author>Necron69</author>
	<datestamp>1265128500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Scientists report that the average weight of the Chinese has begun to spike rapidly as they begin using electric bikes, and eat at McDonald's, Starbucks, and KFC. </p><p>Seriously, I spent two weeks in China in 2007 and I realized why most of the world views most Americans as fat and lazy - we are! I was positively huge compared to 99\% of the people in Beijing.</p><p>Now I've dropped 30lbs and ride my (pedal-powered) bike to work, and for fun, on a regular basis. I can conceed the benefits of electric bikes vs cars, but from a health standpoint, I suspect the Chinese are going backwards.</p><p>Necron69</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Scientists report that the average weight of the Chinese has begun to spike rapidly as they begin using electric bikes , and eat at McDonald 's , Starbucks , and KFC .
Seriously , I spent two weeks in China in 2007 and I realized why most of the world views most Americans as fat and lazy - we are !
I was positively huge compared to 99 \ % of the people in Beijing.Now I 've dropped 30lbs and ride my ( pedal-powered ) bike to work , and for fun , on a regular basis .
I can conceed the benefits of electric bikes vs cars , but from a health standpoint , I suspect the Chinese are going backwards.Necron69</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Scientists report that the average weight of the Chinese has begun to spike rapidly as they begin using electric bikes, and eat at McDonald's, Starbucks, and KFC.
Seriously, I spent two weeks in China in 2007 and I realized why most of the world views most Americans as fat and lazy - we are!
I was positively huge compared to 99\% of the people in Beijing.Now I've dropped 30lbs and ride my (pedal-powered) bike to work, and for fun, on a regular basis.
I can conceed the benefits of electric bikes vs cars, but from a health standpoint, I suspect the Chinese are going backwards.Necron69</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991632</id>
	<title>reasons this may not catch on in the US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265046360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Two of the many reasons this may not catch on in the US:
</p><p>
One is drivers. I ride a (nonmotorized) bike to work twice a week. It would sure be nice if drivers here in the US showed that they had some clue that cyclists exist. This morning I got to deal with a woman who decided to pull her car over into the bike lane so that she could talk on her cell phone. On the way home, I got a teenage girl eating a banana while wanting to turn left in front of me without signaling. Other fun experiences include people swerving around me and cutting me off because they're too impatient to let me get across an intersection, and people yelling at me because I'm not in the bike lane (hey, sometimes cyclists do need to turn left, and in any case the law says that cyclists can ride in regular lanes).
</p><p>
Another reason is weather. US weather has more extremes than Europe. There's a reason that all the early colonists from England died of tropical diseases.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two of the many reasons this may not catch on in the US : One is drivers .
I ride a ( nonmotorized ) bike to work twice a week .
It would sure be nice if drivers here in the US showed that they had some clue that cyclists exist .
This morning I got to deal with a woman who decided to pull her car over into the bike lane so that she could talk on her cell phone .
On the way home , I got a teenage girl eating a banana while wanting to turn left in front of me without signaling .
Other fun experiences include people swerving around me and cutting me off because they 're too impatient to let me get across an intersection , and people yelling at me because I 'm not in the bike lane ( hey , sometimes cyclists do need to turn left , and in any case the law says that cyclists can ride in regular lanes ) .
Another reason is weather .
US weather has more extremes than Europe .
There 's a reason that all the early colonists from England died of tropical diseases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Two of the many reasons this may not catch on in the US:

One is drivers.
I ride a (nonmotorized) bike to work twice a week.
It would sure be nice if drivers here in the US showed that they had some clue that cyclists exist.
This morning I got to deal with a woman who decided to pull her car over into the bike lane so that she could talk on her cell phone.
On the way home, I got a teenage girl eating a banana while wanting to turn left in front of me without signaling.
Other fun experiences include people swerving around me and cutting me off because they're too impatient to let me get across an intersection, and people yelling at me because I'm not in the bike lane (hey, sometimes cyclists do need to turn left, and in any case the law says that cyclists can ride in regular lanes).
Another reason is weather.
US weather has more extremes than Europe.
There's a reason that all the early colonists from England died of tropical diseases.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31004166</id>
	<title>Democracy in China</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1265122260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>In December, conflict over electric bike safety and design erupted when a government agency introduced a rule effectively banning large electric bikes from bike lanes. But the response from manufacturers and bike owners -- nearly 10 percent of the population -- was forceful. Less than two weeks later, the rule was suspended.</i></p><p>Waddya know. Enough people speak up, and voila! The big, mean government responds.. in a totally unexpected fashion by some peoples' preconceptions. Okay okay, I'll grant it was probably the manufactures with the clout that had the greatest influence.. but hey, the squeaky wheel..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In December , conflict over electric bike safety and design erupted when a government agency introduced a rule effectively banning large electric bikes from bike lanes .
But the response from manufacturers and bike owners -- nearly 10 percent of the population -- was forceful .
Less than two weeks later , the rule was suspended.Waddya know .
Enough people speak up , and voila !
The big , mean government responds.. in a totally unexpected fashion by some peoples ' preconceptions .
Okay okay , I 'll grant it was probably the manufactures with the clout that had the greatest influence.. but hey , the squeaky wheel. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In December, conflict over electric bike safety and design erupted when a government agency introduced a rule effectively banning large electric bikes from bike lanes.
But the response from manufacturers and bike owners -- nearly 10 percent of the population -- was forceful.
Less than two weeks later, the rule was suspended.Waddya know.
Enough people speak up, and voila!
The big, mean government responds.. in a totally unexpected fashion by some peoples' preconceptions.
Okay okay, I'll grant it was probably the manufactures with the clout that had the greatest influence.. but hey, the squeaky wheel..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991986</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1265050560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You seem to be a rather bitter when it comes to this subject so I'll help you out a bit:  namecalling and trying to guilt-trip someone who very likely never did anything wrong is not going to win you over any minds.  Try keeping a cool head and making reasoned arguments next time.</p><p>As a pedestrain (I neither drive, nor bike to work), I could start ranting about how many people bikers run over and hurt/kill while they were minding their own business crossing the streets at crosswalks or walking down the sidewalk every year.  I could link you up with articles from local newspapers about a biker striking an older man, then picking up his bike and riding off as the man lay dying on the curb and suggest furiously that somehow <b>you</b> are partially responsible.  But then I would look like a jackass, just as you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You seem to be a rather bitter when it comes to this subject so I 'll help you out a bit : namecalling and trying to guilt-trip someone who very likely never did anything wrong is not going to win you over any minds .
Try keeping a cool head and making reasoned arguments next time.As a pedestrain ( I neither drive , nor bike to work ) , I could start ranting about how many people bikers run over and hurt/kill while they were minding their own business crossing the streets at crosswalks or walking down the sidewalk every year .
I could link you up with articles from local newspapers about a biker striking an older man , then picking up his bike and riding off as the man lay dying on the curb and suggest furiously that somehow you are partially responsible .
But then I would look like a jackass , just as you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You seem to be a rather bitter when it comes to this subject so I'll help you out a bit:  namecalling and trying to guilt-trip someone who very likely never did anything wrong is not going to win you over any minds.
Try keeping a cool head and making reasoned arguments next time.As a pedestrain (I neither drive, nor bike to work), I could start ranting about how many people bikers run over and hurt/kill while they were minding their own business crossing the streets at crosswalks or walking down the sidewalk every year.
I could link you up with articles from local newspapers about a biker striking an older man, then picking up his bike and riding off as the man lay dying on the curb and suggest furiously that somehow you are partially responsible.
But then I would look like a jackass, just as you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992154</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265052840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's simple, really.  Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic.  If you're assisted by an electric motor, there is less of a speed differential with traffic, but now you'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself, since you'll be traveling much faster than them.</p></div><p>At least in Europe, electric bicycles are regulated so that the assisting motor can only assist up to a certain speed, which is below the average speed of any fast cyclists. Otherwise they're considered electric mopeds instead. In the reviews of electric bicycles I've read, the usual conclusion is that the motor is a convenience when going uphill and also useful, if you have a lot of weight on your bike, like urban mailmen that use electric bicycles. One magazine actually asked the postal service for operating experience of bikes they were reviewing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's simple , really .
Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic .
If you 're assisted by an electric motor , there is less of a speed differential with traffic , but now you 'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself , since you 'll be traveling much faster than them.At least in Europe , electric bicycles are regulated so that the assisting motor can only assist up to a certain speed , which is below the average speed of any fast cyclists .
Otherwise they 're considered electric mopeds instead .
In the reviews of electric bicycles I 've read , the usual conclusion is that the motor is a convenience when going uphill and also useful , if you have a lot of weight on your bike , like urban mailmen that use electric bicycles .
One magazine actually asked the postal service for operating experience of bikes they were reviewing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's simple, really.
Bicycle lanes exist to protect bicycles which travel slower than the rest of traffic.
If you're assisted by an electric motor, there is less of a speed differential with traffic, but now you'll be a hazard to all the bicyclists yourself, since you'll be traveling much faster than them.At least in Europe, electric bicycles are regulated so that the assisting motor can only assist up to a certain speed, which is below the average speed of any fast cyclists.
Otherwise they're considered electric mopeds instead.
In the reviews of electric bicycles I've read, the usual conclusion is that the motor is a convenience when going uphill and also useful, if you have a lot of weight on your bike, like urban mailmen that use electric bicycles.
One magazine actually asked the postal service for operating experience of bikes they were reviewing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991976</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265050440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I ride a motorbike (and at times a pushbike) on the road, and have learned one thing very well.</p><p>It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves!</p><p>Anything else is just a stupid unrealistic dream.</p><p>Reality is that I must avoid cars pulling in front of me, cutting me off, and at times trying to drive through me when I am stationary. This is life.<br>Every day (I commute through an area of main road loved by cyclists) I see them 'downhilling' down a lethal bit of road - not to commut but for fun, and high speed (often above the speed limit), taking wide corners, and without the ability to quickly stop. I have seen several very serious accidents there, however I have never seen a car-on-car accident there as it is a safe bit of road, the usual accident is a bike into the back of a car, or once into the front when taking a corner WAY too wide.</p><p>The road is not a playground, it is there for transportation, and it is dangerous. Many drivers are borderline incompetent, so you must weight up the risks, and make some serious decisions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ride a motorbike ( and at times a pushbike ) on the road , and have learned one thing very well.It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves ! Anything else is just a stupid unrealistic dream.Reality is that I must avoid cars pulling in front of me , cutting me off , and at times trying to drive through me when I am stationary .
This is life.Every day ( I commute through an area of main road loved by cyclists ) I see them 'downhilling ' down a lethal bit of road - not to commut but for fun , and high speed ( often above the speed limit ) , taking wide corners , and without the ability to quickly stop .
I have seen several very serious accidents there , however I have never seen a car-on-car accident there as it is a safe bit of road , the usual accident is a bike into the back of a car , or once into the front when taking a corner WAY too wide.The road is not a playground , it is there for transportation , and it is dangerous .
Many drivers are borderline incompetent , so you must weight up the risks , and make some serious decisions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I ride a motorbike (and at times a pushbike) on the road, and have learned one thing very well.It is the job of the more at-risk to protect themselves!Anything else is just a stupid unrealistic dream.Reality is that I must avoid cars pulling in front of me, cutting me off, and at times trying to drive through me when I am stationary.
This is life.Every day (I commute through an area of main road loved by cyclists) I see them 'downhilling' down a lethal bit of road - not to commut but for fun, and high speed (often above the speed limit), taking wide corners, and without the ability to quickly stop.
I have seen several very serious accidents there, however I have never seen a car-on-car accident there as it is a safe bit of road, the usual accident is a bike into the back of a car, or once into the front when taking a corner WAY too wide.The road is not a playground, it is there for transportation, and it is dangerous.
Many drivers are borderline incompetent, so you must weight up the risks, and make some serious decisions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993292</id>
	<title>Ban bikes...</title>
	<author>Bert64</author>
	<datestamp>1265113320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places, which makes absolutely no sense...</p><p>Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...<br>Car hits bike - high chance of serious injuries or death of the rider...<br>Larger vehicle hits bike - rider very likely to be killed.</p><p>A cyclist risks injuring himself if he hits a pedestrian, a car driver only risks scratching his car if he hits a bike.</p><p>A pedestrian can also react much quicker than a car, when the bikes invariably wobble around... And up hill, bikes are frequently no quicker than pedestrians... (conversely, i have encountered bikes breaking the speed limit going downhill).</p><p>Couple that with the fact that sidewalks are often far less crowded than the roads, and that cyclists usually ignore things like traffic signals and speed limits... They really don't belong on the roads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places , which makes absolutely no sense...Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...Car hits bike - high chance of serious injuries or death of the rider...Larger vehicle hits bike - rider very likely to be killed.A cyclist risks injuring himself if he hits a pedestrian , a car driver only risks scratching his car if he hits a bike.A pedestrian can also react much quicker than a car , when the bikes invariably wobble around... And up hill , bikes are frequently no quicker than pedestrians... ( conversely , i have encountered bikes breaking the speed limit going downhill ) .Couple that with the fact that sidewalks are often far less crowded than the roads , and that cyclists usually ignore things like traffic signals and speed limits... They really do n't belong on the roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bikes are already banned from the sidewalks in many places, which makes absolutely no sense...Bike hits pedestrian - mostly minor injuries or annoyance for both parties...Car hits bike - high chance of serious injuries or death of the rider...Larger vehicle hits bike - rider very likely to be killed.A cyclist risks injuring himself if he hits a pedestrian, a car driver only risks scratching his car if he hits a bike.A pedestrian can also react much quicker than a car, when the bikes invariably wobble around... And up hill, bikes are frequently no quicker than pedestrians... (conversely, i have encountered bikes breaking the speed limit going downhill).Couple that with the fact that sidewalks are often far less crowded than the roads, and that cyclists usually ignore things like traffic signals and speed limits... They really don't belong on the roads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993522</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265115540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Motorists get killed by cyclists too. http://bicycleuniverse.info/justice/motorists-killed.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Motorists get killed by cyclists too .
http : //bicycleuniverse.info/justice/motorists-killed.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Motorists get killed by cyclists too.
http://bicycleuniverse.info/justice/motorists-killed.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30998198</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>goose-incarnated</author>
	<datestamp>1265136000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists? Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window. It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.</p></div><p>
It should have also come out in court that it was the cyclists fault for *not maintaining a safe following distance*!!!<br> <br>
You see, for all your sermonising, you just pointed out an incident where the cyclist was at fault but you failed to see that they were at fault due to your emotionally irrational arguments. It's hard to take anything you say seriously, and yes I both ride a bicycle and ride a motorbike, and never had any problems.<br> <br>I keep away from parked cars in case the doors are suddenly opened, I never weave in traffic, etc. As a part-time cyclist I have to say that the majority of the accidents I've seen were preventable <i>by the cyclist</i>, not only the motorist. So share the blame - I've seen more cyclists pose a hazard to the free flow of traffic than motorists do, even though there are more motorists on the road.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to " scare " cyclists ?
Two of them could n't stop in time , and they smashed into his back window .
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists .
It should have also come out in court that it was the cyclists fault for * not maintaining a safe following distance * ! ! !
You see , for all your sermonising , you just pointed out an incident where the cyclist was at fault but you failed to see that they were at fault due to your emotionally irrational arguments .
It 's hard to take anything you say seriously , and yes I both ride a bicycle and ride a motorbike , and never had any problems .
I keep away from parked cars in case the doors are suddenly opened , I never weave in traffic , etc .
As a part-time cyclist I have to say that the majority of the accidents I 've seen were preventable by the cyclist , not only the motorist .
So share the blame - I 've seen more cyclists pose a hazard to the free flow of traffic than motorists do , even though there are more motorists on the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists?
Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.
It should have also come out in court that it was the cyclists fault for *not maintaining a safe following distance*!!!
You see, for all your sermonising, you just pointed out an incident where the cyclist was at fault but you failed to see that they were at fault due to your emotionally irrational arguments.
It's hard to take anything you say seriously, and yes I both ride a bicycle and ride a motorbike, and never had any problems.
I keep away from parked cars in case the doors are suddenly opened, I never weave in traffic, etc.
As a part-time cyclist I have to say that the majority of the accidents I've seen were preventable by the cyclist, not only the motorist.
So share the blame - I've seen more cyclists pose a hazard to the free flow of traffic than motorists do, even though there are more motorists on the road.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992166</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1265053020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Moped" driver? "Hundreds" of pounds?</p><p>Electric bicycles are not mopeds... at least not here in the US, where the silly useless-pedals-to-satisfy-legality designs are occasionally available for sale but have basically zero market traction. People who want a self-propelled vehicle that weighs hundreds of pounds can buy a motorcycle, even an electric one; the lightweight parts to make a good e-bike (as opposed to an electric moped, which isn't expected to be light enough to pedal and so can use lead-acid batteries, suspension components built for the motorcycle market, etc) are <b>vastly</b> more expensive. No sane person spends the extra money to get an e-bike when what they really want is a moped.</p><p>Moreover -- here in my state (Texas), anything over 100lb can't be legally considered an electric bicycle regardless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Moped " driver ?
" Hundreds " of pounds ? Electric bicycles are not mopeds... at least not here in the US , where the silly useless-pedals-to-satisfy-legality designs are occasionally available for sale but have basically zero market traction .
People who want a self-propelled vehicle that weighs hundreds of pounds can buy a motorcycle , even an electric one ; the lightweight parts to make a good e-bike ( as opposed to an electric moped , which is n't expected to be light enough to pedal and so can use lead-acid batteries , suspension components built for the motorcycle market , etc ) are vastly more expensive .
No sane person spends the extra money to get an e-bike when what they really want is a moped.Moreover -- here in my state ( Texas ) , anything over 100lb ca n't be legally considered an electric bicycle regardless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Moped" driver?
"Hundreds" of pounds?Electric bicycles are not mopeds... at least not here in the US, where the silly useless-pedals-to-satisfy-legality designs are occasionally available for sale but have basically zero market traction.
People who want a self-propelled vehicle that weighs hundreds of pounds can buy a motorcycle, even an electric one; the lightweight parts to make a good e-bike (as opposed to an electric moped, which isn't expected to be light enough to pedal and so can use lead-acid batteries, suspension components built for the motorcycle market, etc) are vastly more expensive.
No sane person spends the extra money to get an e-bike when what they really want is a moped.Moreover -- here in my state (Texas), anything over 100lb can't be legally considered an electric bicycle regardless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991688</id>
	<title>Re:reasons this may not catch on in the US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>American weather isn't that bad. Note that two of the biggest bike cities in the world are Copenhagen and Amsterdam, neither noted for its pleasant conditions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>American weather is n't that bad .
Note that two of the biggest bike cities in the world are Copenhagen and Amsterdam , neither noted for its pleasant conditions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>American weather isn't that bad.
Note that two of the biggest bike cities in the world are Copenhagen and Amsterdam, neither noted for its pleasant conditions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992004</id>
	<title>What most of you have missed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265050740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These things are a really really good idea.</p><p>1) Power to weight works in favour of an electric bike. 500W on a bike is a BIG gain, on a 4 Ton SUV it's noise.<br>2) The battery range V distance just works.<br>Electric cars/motorbikes won't work except as a second or third vehicle simply because most people do drive their car 300km or so now and then. For an electric car that's a beyond there "get me there and back range". For a bicycle 30km return is about all most people would do - beyond that it takes too much time out of a working day.<br>3) If you do get stuck (run out of charge) an electric bicycle is small enough to pick up later with a car. An electric car/motorcycle would require a recovery vehicle (big $$)<br>4) Cheap enough that most (western) people could afford one as a second or third vehicle. Massively more efficient than taking the car to work where it's a short commute (10-20km) and not a lot slower.</p><p>I'd have to say though - to make these work needs either dedicated bike lanes or banning cars from some of the main roads in commute time</p><p>I used to ride a bicycle to work - gave it up it was simply too dangerous. (I ride a motorcycle and it's FAR safer than a bicycle).</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These things are a really really good idea.1 ) Power to weight works in favour of an electric bike .
500W on a bike is a BIG gain , on a 4 Ton SUV it 's noise.2 ) The battery range V distance just works.Electric cars/motorbikes wo n't work except as a second or third vehicle simply because most people do drive their car 300km or so now and then .
For an electric car that 's a beyond there " get me there and back range " .
For a bicycle 30km return is about all most people would do - beyond that it takes too much time out of a working day.3 ) If you do get stuck ( run out of charge ) an electric bicycle is small enough to pick up later with a car .
An electric car/motorcycle would require a recovery vehicle ( big $ $ ) 4 ) Cheap enough that most ( western ) people could afford one as a second or third vehicle .
Massively more efficient than taking the car to work where it 's a short commute ( 10-20km ) and not a lot slower.I 'd have to say though - to make these work needs either dedicated bike lanes or banning cars from some of the main roads in commute timeI used to ride a bicycle to work - gave it up it was simply too dangerous .
( I ride a motorcycle and it 's FAR safer than a bicycle ) .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>These things are a really really good idea.1) Power to weight works in favour of an electric bike.
500W on a bike is a BIG gain, on a 4 Ton SUV it's noise.2) The battery range V distance just works.Electric cars/motorbikes won't work except as a second or third vehicle simply because most people do drive their car 300km or so now and then.
For an electric car that's a beyond there "get me there and back range".
For a bicycle 30km return is about all most people would do - beyond that it takes too much time out of a working day.3) If you do get stuck (run out of charge) an electric bicycle is small enough to pick up later with a car.
An electric car/motorcycle would require a recovery vehicle (big $$)4) Cheap enough that most (western) people could afford one as a second or third vehicle.
Massively more efficient than taking the car to work where it's a short commute (10-20km) and not a lot slower.I'd have to say though - to make these work needs either dedicated bike lanes or banning cars from some of the main roads in commute timeI used to ride a bicycle to work - gave it up it was simply too dangerous.
(I ride a motorcycle and it's FAR safer than a bicycle).
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992922</id>
	<title>Re:bicycle lanes are for BICYCLISTS</title>
	<author>minorproblem</author>
	<datestamp>1265108940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A mate of mine got doored on his GSXR750 on an 80 road!  The lady opened the door completely open and he plowed into it all 200kgs of steel and 80kgs of bloke.  He was very lucky he was wearing full gear and only had some minor bruises.  The lady had a huge cut up her arm where his clutch leaver snapped off and tore the skin open.  Imagine what could of happened to her if it was a truck....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A mate of mine got doored on his GSXR750 on an 80 road !
The lady opened the door completely open and he plowed into it all 200kgs of steel and 80kgs of bloke .
He was very lucky he was wearing full gear and only had some minor bruises .
The lady had a huge cut up her arm where his clutch leaver snapped off and tore the skin open .
Imagine what could of happened to her if it was a truck... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A mate of mine got doored on his GSXR750 on an 80 road!
The lady opened the door completely open and he plowed into it all 200kgs of steel and 80kgs of bloke.
He was very lucky he was wearing full gear and only had some minor bruises.
The lady had a huge cut up her arm where his clutch leaver snapped off and tore the skin open.
Imagine what could of happened to her if it was a truck....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31004210</id>
	<title>Re:Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1265122560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to do a fair amount of important stuff from other countries, China being one of them, to either use or resell on eBay (I was unemployed and broke at the time.  It paid the bills and was actually a lot of fun, until Paypal destroyed me but that is another story.)  I would talk to people on forums to see if there was experience with a certain company or if you could import certain goods from China....</p><p>What I got out of it is that a lot of things that are manufactured and branded in the United States would get scooped up by customs.  I heard of all manner of things getting confiscated (Boots, Jackets, Staplers among those I remember) by customs because it was "Illegal" to import them.  Some of these people may have been making crap up, as I never had any problems getting anything into the country, but they seemed very sincere.  Perhaps this type of thing is similar to the problem your friend had with importing bikes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to do a fair amount of important stuff from other countries , China being one of them , to either use or resell on eBay ( I was unemployed and broke at the time .
It paid the bills and was actually a lot of fun , until Paypal destroyed me but that is another story .
) I would talk to people on forums to see if there was experience with a certain company or if you could import certain goods from China....What I got out of it is that a lot of things that are manufactured and branded in the United States would get scooped up by customs .
I heard of all manner of things getting confiscated ( Boots , Jackets , Staplers among those I remember ) by customs because it was " Illegal " to import them .
Some of these people may have been making crap up , as I never had any problems getting anything into the country , but they seemed very sincere .
Perhaps this type of thing is similar to the problem your friend had with importing bikes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to do a fair amount of important stuff from other countries, China being one of them, to either use or resell on eBay (I was unemployed and broke at the time.
It paid the bills and was actually a lot of fun, until Paypal destroyed me but that is another story.
)  I would talk to people on forums to see if there was experience with a certain company or if you could import certain goods from China....What I got out of it is that a lot of things that are manufactured and branded in the United States would get scooped up by customs.
I heard of all manner of things getting confiscated (Boots, Jackets, Staplers among those I remember) by customs because it was "Illegal" to import them.
Some of these people may have been making crap up, as I never had any problems getting anything into the country, but they seemed very sincere.
Perhaps this type of thing is similar to the problem your friend had with importing bikes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992428</id>
	<title>This will change.....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265143380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>the way cities are built!</htmltext>
<tokenext>the way cities are built !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the way cities are built!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992404</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265143080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hm, "the survivors / community have to live with it", that nicely sums up blaming the rape victims too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hm , " the survivors / community have to live with it " , that nicely sums up blaming the rape victims too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hm, "the survivors / community have to live with it", that nicely sums up blaming the rape victims too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30996124</id>
	<title>bicyclist higher profile is safer</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1265129220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are times I cannot see scooters when block by other vehicles.  They and their driver are only four feet tall.  Bicycles are more like 5 to 6 feet.  Both should have flags for even more visibility.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are times I can not see scooters when block by other vehicles .
They and their driver are only four feet tall .
Bicycles are more like 5 to 6 feet .
Both should have flags for even more visibility .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are times I cannot see scooters when block by other vehicles.
They and their driver are only four feet tall.
Bicycles are more like 5 to 6 feet.
Both should have flags for even more visibility.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991654</id>
	<title>Unlike Toyotas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265046540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which are just surging in acceleration!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which are just surging in acceleration !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which are just surging in acceleration!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30995496</id>
	<title>Re:pollution</title>
	<author>jameskojiro</author>
	<datestamp>1265127180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More worried from all of the toxic coal being burned in china for electricity for their electric bikes....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More worried from all of the toxic coal being burned in china for electricity for their electric bikes... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More worried from all of the toxic coal being burned in china for electricity for their electric bikes....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991714</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993652</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1265116680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>sometime I need to go very fast. A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
I don't see how a bicycle can ever be safe when mixed up with fast moving heavy traffic; and I doubt that the ability to go "very fast" is what prevents most bicycle accidents.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>sometime I need to go very fast .
A power limited electric motor ca n't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic .
I do n't see how a bicycle can ever be safe when mixed up with fast moving heavy traffic ; and I doubt that the ability to go " very fast " is what prevents most bicycle accidents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sometime I need to go very fast.
A power limited electric motor can't do the latter and would make me feel vulnerable in traffic.
I don't see how a bicycle can ever be safe when mixed up with fast moving heavy traffic; and I doubt that the ability to go "very fast" is what prevents most bicycle accidents.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31004304</id>
	<title>Re:Americans Pay More</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1265123340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The trade restrictions are in place to protect the interests of other industries that have more influence over the politicians. There's nothing ideological about them. It's strictly business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The trade restrictions are in place to protect the interests of other industries that have more influence over the politicians .
There 's nothing ideological about them .
It 's strictly business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The trade restrictions are in place to protect the interests of other industries that have more influence over the politicians.
There's nothing ideological about them.
It's strictly business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30994242</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe not in North America</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265121360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just flew out of china last week and I van assure you all that the article is pretty spot on for china. One thing it fails to mention however is that regular traffic in china is nothing short of semi-orgNised chaos, and that almost no one wears a helmet (hence the high number of cyclist fatalities). Another point it fails to mention is the prevalence of the electric scooter. These are perfect for most people as they take two people easily, or one and a small load on the back. Given the amazingly low cost, many of these could easily be modified to meet county specific road regulations and, as mentioned, dramatically reduce oil dependence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just flew out of china last week and I van assure you all that the article is pretty spot on for china .
One thing it fails to mention however is that regular traffic in china is nothing short of semi-orgNised chaos , and that almost no one wears a helmet ( hence the high number of cyclist fatalities ) .
Another point it fails to mention is the prevalence of the electric scooter .
These are perfect for most people as they take two people easily , or one and a small load on the back .
Given the amazingly low cost , many of these could easily be modified to meet county specific road regulations and , as mentioned , dramatically reduce oil dependence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just flew out of china last week and I van assure you all that the article is pretty spot on for china.
One thing it fails to mention however is that regular traffic in china is nothing short of semi-orgNised chaos, and that almost no one wears a helmet (hence the high number of cyclist fatalities).
Another point it fails to mention is the prevalence of the electric scooter.
These are perfect for most people as they take two people easily, or one and a small load on the back.
Given the amazingly low cost, many of these could easily be modified to meet county specific road regulations and, as mentioned, dramatically reduce oil dependence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992052</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing glamorous to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265051400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see nothing wrong with their comment.  What, is it racist or something?  Why does it upset you so much?  He (or she) could have just said 'I am not from China...', would that have upset you as much?  Is your life reduced to reading comments, just waiting to be outraged about something/anything?  Crap, I live in China and hear much more vicious things coming from the mouths of the locals, but never said 'ugly Chinese' (though other words have come to mind).</p><p>As for the electic bikes, SBD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see nothing wrong with their comment .
What , is it racist or something ?
Why does it upset you so much ?
He ( or she ) could have just said 'I am not from China... ' , would that have upset you as much ?
Is your life reduced to reading comments , just waiting to be outraged about something/anything ?
Crap , I live in China and hear much more vicious things coming from the mouths of the locals , but never said 'ugly Chinese ' ( though other words have come to mind ) .As for the electic bikes , SBD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see nothing wrong with their comment.
What, is it racist or something?
Why does it upset you so much?
He (or she) could have just said 'I am not from China...', would that have upset you as much?
Is your life reduced to reading comments, just waiting to be outraged about something/anything?
Crap, I live in China and hear much more vicious things coming from the mouths of the locals, but never said 'ugly Chinese' (though other words have come to mind).As for the electic bikes, SBD.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991802</id>
	<title>fastest ebike</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265048280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6o-g7YeC4Q  -  Something about 120km/hour (75mph) seems pretty cool to me.  Imagine what you'd think if you were in a car on the interstate and you got passed by someone on a mountain bike.  Even though I believe the US states have legal limits at 20mph most everywhere and 30mph in California.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = Y6o-g7YeC4Q - Something about 120km/hour ( 75mph ) seems pretty cool to me .
Imagine what you 'd think if you were in a car on the interstate and you got passed by someone on a mountain bike .
Even though I believe the US states have legal limits at 20mph most everywhere and 30mph in California .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6o-g7YeC4Q  -  Something about 120km/hour (75mph) seems pretty cool to me.
Imagine what you'd think if you were in a car on the interstate and you got passed by someone on a mountain bike.
Even though I believe the US states have legal limits at 20mph most everywhere and 30mph in California.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992656</id>
	<title>Re:Ah, yes, one of the modern evils...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265103840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've got a lot of foreign friends, the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians.</p></div><p>I'm not sure why this was modded flamebait.  There's a point to be made here.  I've lived in Downtown Portland and traveled a lot as both a pedestrian and a driver.   I have to say this:  I would MUCH rather dodge bicycles on the sidewalk than hit one with my car.  It's not that cyclists are stupid, it's that they are so overwhelmingly out-classed that any collision is frightening.  I'd rather have the fear of colliding with a cyclist while crossing a street than living with the guilt of accidentally paralyzing somebody who wobbled into my path.  That's one of the key reasons why bicycles on the road are so frustrating.  It's like being a waitress while she's carrying four drinks on a tray and a bunch of kids are running around wild playing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got a lot of foreign friends , the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians.I 'm not sure why this was modded flamebait .
There 's a point to be made here .
I 've lived in Downtown Portland and traveled a lot as both a pedestrian and a driver .
I have to say this : I would MUCH rather dodge bicycles on the sidewalk than hit one with my car .
It 's not that cyclists are stupid , it 's that they are so overwhelmingly out-classed that any collision is frightening .
I 'd rather have the fear of colliding with a cyclist while crossing a street than living with the guilt of accidentally paralyzing somebody who wobbled into my path .
That 's one of the key reasons why bicycles on the road are so frustrating .
It 's like being a waitress while she 's carrying four drinks on a tray and a bunch of kids are running around wild playing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got a lot of foreign friends, the one thing they have in common is that they consider us delusional for believing that bicycles are not pedestrians.I'm not sure why this was modded flamebait.
There's a point to be made here.
I've lived in Downtown Portland and traveled a lot as both a pedestrian and a driver.
I have to say this:  I would MUCH rather dodge bicycles on the sidewalk than hit one with my car.
It's not that cyclists are stupid, it's that they are so overwhelmingly out-classed that any collision is frightening.
I'd rather have the fear of colliding with a cyclist while crossing a street than living with the guilt of accidentally paralyzing somebody who wobbled into my path.
That's one of the key reasons why bicycles on the road are so frustrating.
It's like being a waitress while she's carrying four drinks on a tray and a bunch of kids are running around wild playing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993764</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1265117700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists? Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window. It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.</p></div> </blockquote><p>If you are tailgating someone so extremely <b>with a bike</b> that you cannot avoid a collision if they suddenly come to a stop, then you probably damn well deserve it.  What is the average stopping distance of a bicycle, 10 to 15 feet?  It couldn't have been at a terribly high rate of speed, seeing as this is cyclists tailgating a car.</p><p>Tailgaters get what they deserve, regardless of what they are riding.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to " scare " cyclists ?
Two of them could n't stop in time , and they smashed into his back window .
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists .
If you are tailgating someone so extremely with a bike that you can not avoid a collision if they suddenly come to a stop , then you probably damn well deserve it .
What is the average stopping distance of a bicycle , 10 to 15 feet ?
It could n't have been at a terribly high rate of speed , seeing as this is cyclists tailgating a car.Tailgaters get what they deserve , regardless of what they are riding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or how about that doctor who was convicted of slamming on his brakes to "scare" cyclists?
Two of them couldn't stop in time, and they smashed into his back window.
It came out in court that he had a long history of such road rage against cyclists.
If you are tailgating someone so extremely with a bike that you cannot avoid a collision if they suddenly come to a stop, then you probably damn well deserve it.
What is the average stopping distance of a bicycle, 10 to 15 feet?
It couldn't have been at a terribly high rate of speed, seeing as this is cyclists tailgating a car.Tailgaters get what they deserve, regardless of what they are riding.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.31003678</id>
	<title>Re:pardon me if I don't have much sympathy.</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1265118780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Absolutely agreed, HOWEVER:
<br> <br>
If we simply give up the fact that car drivers are all incompetent, we lose the backlash against them doing things *wrong*. We can't say "It's OK, the cyclist should have seen it coming." While it may be true in many cases, it isn't always. An incompetent driver can still ruin the day of a cyclist doing every imaginable thing right. What we need to acknowledge is that roads are a shared resource an push for more competence from both parties. Yes, ultimately you are responsible for keeping your squishy ass safe on your bike, but that doesn't matter one lick when cars on the road don't acknowledge their own responsibility.
<br> <br>
This is why we have these stories and discussions- so cyclists know how to be safe around cars, and so cars know how to be safe around cyclists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely agreed , HOWEVER : If we simply give up the fact that car drivers are all incompetent , we lose the backlash against them doing things * wrong * .
We ca n't say " It 's OK , the cyclist should have seen it coming .
" While it may be true in many cases , it is n't always .
An incompetent driver can still ruin the day of a cyclist doing every imaginable thing right .
What we need to acknowledge is that roads are a shared resource an push for more competence from both parties .
Yes , ultimately you are responsible for keeping your squishy ass safe on your bike , but that does n't matter one lick when cars on the road do n't acknowledge their own responsibility .
This is why we have these stories and discussions- so cyclists know how to be safe around cars , and so cars know how to be safe around cyclists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely agreed, HOWEVER:
 
If we simply give up the fact that car drivers are all incompetent, we lose the backlash against them doing things *wrong*.
We can't say "It's OK, the cyclist should have seen it coming.
" While it may be true in many cases, it isn't always.
An incompetent driver can still ruin the day of a cyclist doing every imaginable thing right.
What we need to acknowledge is that roads are a shared resource an push for more competence from both parties.
Yes, ultimately you are responsible for keeping your squishy ass safe on your bike, but that doesn't matter one lick when cars on the road don't acknowledge their own responsibility.
This is why we have these stories and discussions- so cyclists know how to be safe around cars, and so cars know how to be safe around cyclists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30993642</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, let's blame the victims!</title>
	<author>chrb</author>
	<datestamp>1265116560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What really gets to me is deliberately running over cyclists. As far as I can see, this should be treated as attempted murder (what do you expect will happen when you run over somebody with a heavy, motorised vehicle?).</p><p><a href="http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/driver-jailed-after-covering-up-near-fatal-crash-23930" title="bikeradar.com">A motorist who deliberately drove into a cyclist, left him lying in the road critically injured and then tried to cover his tracks has been jailed</a> [bikeradar.com]</p><p><a href="http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/Disabled-driver-guilty-road-rage/article-374366-detail/article.html" title="thisisnottingham.co.uk">A 63-YEAR-OLD disabled woman has been found guilty of dangerous driving after she deliberately rammed a cyclist off his bike as he rode home from work.</a> [thisisnottingham.co.uk]</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What really gets to me is deliberately running over cyclists .
As far as I can see , this should be treated as attempted murder ( what do you expect will happen when you run over somebody with a heavy , motorised vehicle ?
) .A motorist who deliberately drove into a cyclist , left him lying in the road critically injured and then tried to cover his tracks has been jailed [ bikeradar.com ] A 63-YEAR-OLD disabled woman has been found guilty of dangerous driving after she deliberately rammed a cyclist off his bike as he rode home from work .
[ thisisnottingham.co.uk ]  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>What really gets to me is deliberately running over cyclists.
As far as I can see, this should be treated as attempted murder (what do you expect will happen when you run over somebody with a heavy, motorised vehicle?
).A motorist who deliberately drove into a cyclist, left him lying in the road critically injured and then tried to cover his tracks has been jailed [bikeradar.com]A 63-YEAR-OLD disabled woman has been found guilty of dangerous driving after she deliberately rammed a cyclist off his bike as he rode home from work.
[thisisnottingham.co.uk]
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30992808</id>
	<title>Ultimate Max Burn</title>
	<author>noisehil</author>
	<datestamp>1265106900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think people are buying more scooter and mopeds then they are bikes. I'd say it probably wouldn't pay to sell bikes on the internet.
<a href="http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/ultimate-max-burn-review-free-trial-now-1809994.html" title="articlesbase.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/ultimate-max-burn-review-free-trial-now-1809994.html</a> [articlesbase.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think people are buying more scooter and mopeds then they are bikes .
I 'd say it probably would n't pay to sell bikes on the internet .
http : //www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/ultimate-max-burn-review-free-trial-now-1809994.html [ articlesbase.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think people are buying more scooter and mopeds then they are bikes.
I'd say it probably wouldn't pay to sell bikes on the internet.
http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/ultimate-max-burn-review-free-trial-now-1809994.html [articlesbase.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991686</id>
	<title>Re:reasons this may not catch on in the US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265047020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe if you cyclists would quit dragging ass in a 45 zone with no shoulder. I know you top out a lot higher than 25.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe if you cyclists would quit dragging ass in a 45 zone with no shoulder .
I know you top out a lot higher than 25 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe if you cyclists would quit dragging ass in a 45 zone with no shoulder.
I know you top out a lot higher than 25.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_2352228.30991632</parent>
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