<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_30_0650250</id>
	<title>Making It Hard For Extraterrestrials To Hear Us</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1264879620000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>quaith writes <i>"US astronomer <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank\_Drake">Frank Drake</a> has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jan/27/aliens-cant-hear-us-astronomer">making it less likely that we will be heard in space</a>. In the past, we used huge ground stations to broadcast radio and television signals which could be picked up relatively easily &mdash; according to astronomers' calculations anyway. Now we use satellites that transmit at 75 watts and point toward Earth instead of into space. In addition, we've switched to digital which makes the transmissions even fainter. Drake has concluded that very soon, in space no one will hear us at all. I guess we'd better keep listening."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>quaith writes " US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space .
In the past , we used huge ground stations to broadcast radio and television signals which could be picked up relatively easily    according to astronomers ' calculations anyway .
Now we use satellites that transmit at 75 watts and point toward Earth instead of into space .
In addition , we 've switched to digital which makes the transmissions even fainter .
Drake has concluded that very soon , in space no one will hear us at all .
I guess we 'd better keep listening .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>quaith writes "US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space.
In the past, we used huge ground stations to broadcast radio and television signals which could be picked up relatively easily — according to astronomers' calculations anyway.
Now we use satellites that transmit at 75 watts and point toward Earth instead of into space.
In addition, we've switched to digital which makes the transmissions even fainter.
Drake has concluded that very soon, in space no one will hear us at all.
I guess we'd better keep listening.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960250</id>
	<title>myopic</title>
	<author>quantumpineal</author>
	<datestamp>1264884060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If any alien civilization were capable of communicating or visiting here, I doubt these issues will be a problem?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If any alien civilization were capable of communicating or visiting here , I doubt these issues will be a problem ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If any alien civilization were capable of communicating or visiting here, I doubt these issues will be a problem?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960556</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264844700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>you haven't thought this out. energy isn't the only resource they might require (too much peak oil bunk you've been reading i suspect). a habitable planet is worth a lot more then just energy. even a huge energy source is useless if you don't have air to breath.</htmltext>
<tokenext>you have n't thought this out .
energy is n't the only resource they might require ( too much peak oil bunk you 've been reading i suspect ) .
a habitable planet is worth a lot more then just energy .
even a huge energy source is useless if you do n't have air to breath .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you haven't thought this out.
energy isn't the only resource they might require (too much peak oil bunk you've been reading i suspect).
a habitable planet is worth a lot more then just energy.
even a huge energy source is useless if you don't have air to breath.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961574</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>JoeMerchant</author>
	<datestamp>1264861200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
What about light pollution?  Not sure about the absolute lower limits of detection, but if anyone swings a probe inside Neptune's orbit with even our lame levels of detection capability, they're going to see funny patterns of optical light emission on the 3rd planet, like a fungal growth or something.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about light pollution ?
Not sure about the absolute lower limits of detection , but if anyone swings a probe inside Neptune 's orbit with even our lame levels of detection capability , they 're going to see funny patterns of optical light emission on the 3rd planet , like a fungal growth or something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
What about light pollution?
Not sure about the absolute lower limits of detection, but if anyone swings a probe inside Neptune's orbit with even our lame levels of detection capability, they're going to see funny patterns of optical light emission on the 3rd planet, like a fungal growth or something.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960724</id>
	<title>SETI is fine.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264848180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SETI is valuable because it detects what might be the only actual way to have any contact at all with an alien race-  distant emission of photons, moving at the speed of light.  If lightspeed is as much of a barrier as everyone thinks, then it's feasible that intelligent beings might try to communicate in this fashion.</p><p>If aliens exist that are more advanced than us and are benevolent, then they'd probably have stopped by and said hello.  We have to come up with a great deal of arguments as to why they wouldn't, all of them predicated on ideas like, well, they wouldn't want to mess with our society.  If they were at all moral, they would, for sure.  They could minimize or end human suffering and any "societal advancement" could be s</p><p>Could be simulated on a machine.  Hrm.  That's more plausible than an "ancestor simulation".</p><p>Anyway, if aliens exist and are more advanced than us and are malevolent, presumably we wouldn't be typing this stuff.</p><p>In the "most realistic" scenario, the one where we assume the least things, SETI could realistically detect emissions sent with the purpose of being detected.  That's our best bet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SETI is valuable because it detects what might be the only actual way to have any contact at all with an alien race- distant emission of photons , moving at the speed of light .
If lightspeed is as much of a barrier as everyone thinks , then it 's feasible that intelligent beings might try to communicate in this fashion.If aliens exist that are more advanced than us and are benevolent , then they 'd probably have stopped by and said hello .
We have to come up with a great deal of arguments as to why they would n't , all of them predicated on ideas like , well , they would n't want to mess with our society .
If they were at all moral , they would , for sure .
They could minimize or end human suffering and any " societal advancement " could be sCould be simulated on a machine .
Hrm. That 's more plausible than an " ancestor simulation " .Anyway , if aliens exist and are more advanced than us and are malevolent , presumably we would n't be typing this stuff.In the " most realistic " scenario , the one where we assume the least things , SETI could realistically detect emissions sent with the purpose of being detected .
That 's our best bet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SETI is valuable because it detects what might be the only actual way to have any contact at all with an alien race-  distant emission of photons, moving at the speed of light.
If lightspeed is as much of a barrier as everyone thinks, then it's feasible that intelligent beings might try to communicate in this fashion.If aliens exist that are more advanced than us and are benevolent, then they'd probably have stopped by and said hello.
We have to come up with a great deal of arguments as to why they wouldn't, all of them predicated on ideas like, well, they wouldn't want to mess with our society.
If they were at all moral, they would, for sure.
They could minimize or end human suffering and any "societal advancement" could be sCould be simulated on a machine.
Hrm.  That's more plausible than an "ancestor simulation".Anyway, if aliens exist and are more advanced than us and are malevolent, presumably we wouldn't be typing this stuff.In the "most realistic" scenario, the one where we assume the least things, SETI could realistically detect emissions sent with the purpose of being detected.
That's our best bet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964008</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>cyberthanasis12</author>
	<datestamp>1264878780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?</p></div></blockquote><p>No, as it turns out, you're the first person <em>ever</em> to consider it.  The first person in the entirety of human history.  Even as I type, the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that's significant enough to even <em>begin</em> to recognise the enormity of your insight.  <em>Do not leave your home</em>: a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your <em>400 foot tall solid gold statue</em>.</p></div><p>The sad news is that, though what the grand parent said is obvious, large masses of people in the "advanced" countries have not considered it. Or they say that a sufficiently technologically advanced civilization, will also be morally sufficiently advanced (against every single fact in history).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ? No , as it turns out , you 're the first person ever to consider it .
The first person in the entirety of human history .
Even as I type , the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that 's significant enough to even begin to recognise the enormity of your insight .
Do not leave your home : a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your 400 foot tall solid gold statue.The sad news is that , though what the grand parent said is obvious , large masses of people in the " advanced " countries have not considered it .
Or they say that a sufficiently technologically advanced civilization , will also be morally sufficiently advanced ( against every single fact in history ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?No, as it turns out, you're the first person ever to consider it.
The first person in the entirety of human history.
Even as I type, the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that's significant enough to even begin to recognise the enormity of your insight.
Do not leave your home: a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your 400 foot tall solid gold statue.The sad news is that, though what the grand parent said is obvious, large masses of people in the "advanced" countries have not considered it.
Or they say that a sufficiently technologically advanced civilization, will also be morally sufficiently advanced (against every single fact in history).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30967290</id>
	<title>For the record, alien invasion is highly unlikely</title>
	<author>Sqityl</author>
	<datestamp>1264861920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There has been a surprising number of comments in this discussion about the threat of invasion by an alien species. Since I can't tell if these people are joking, I have to assume they're serious. So let the record show that it's highly unlikely that earth is going to be invaded by aliens. This is for two reasons:
<br> <br>
1) Interstellar travel is expensive, probably even for an advanced species.<br>
2) We have nothing they want.<br> <br>

I think it's safe to assume that point (1) is correct. We know very little about how interstellar travel will be conducted, but we do know that the energy cost of moving things between stars is extremely high.<br> <br>

As for point (2), Earth is nothing special. If aliens want to take our minerals, they can acquire anything they can find on Earth in much higher quantities at a much lower cost from asteroids. They will have no logical reason to enslave us either. Any civilisation with interstellar capability is not going to have a huge demand for manual labour. It's also not likely that they will come here to colonise Earth, because we can't assume they will be anything like human. They may look like hundred legged spiders the size of buses who will be crushed in our gravity, or maybe sulfur based sea slugs who won't be able to live in our atmosphere. This brings me to my next point:<br> <br>

Aliens, in all likelihood, will be <i>nothing</i> like us. Meaningful communication* with them may be impossible. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't try, but it does mean that we shouldn't use examples from human history to argue against contact. Just because every time a technologically advanced civilisation has come into contact with a less advanced civilisation has resulted in disaster in the past doesn't mean that contact with aliens will.<br> <br>

On the other hand, there are 'illogical' reasons why aliens might invade. One is religion. It's unlikely that any alien philosophy will be anything like religion as we know it, but they may have a code of conduct of a single philosophy that underpins their actions. This is the sort of thing that we can't predict, but considering the cost of interstellar travel, any civilisation that makes a habit of sending ships to other worlds for the sole purpose of killing aliens isn't going to last very long.<br> <br>

But then again, aliens are <i>alien</i>. Try as we might, we may never be able to fully understand their motives. This is all speculation, we will never know for sure if I'm right until we actually meet some aliens, which is yet another good reason to look for them.<br> <br>

--<br>
*by 'meaningful communication', what I mean is an exchange of philosophies or ideas. More fundamental things like exchanging knowledge of chemistry may be more possible. (yet still difficult)</htmltext>
<tokenext>There has been a surprising number of comments in this discussion about the threat of invasion by an alien species .
Since I ca n't tell if these people are joking , I have to assume they 're serious .
So let the record show that it 's highly unlikely that earth is going to be invaded by aliens .
This is for two reasons : 1 ) Interstellar travel is expensive , probably even for an advanced species .
2 ) We have nothing they want .
I think it 's safe to assume that point ( 1 ) is correct .
We know very little about how interstellar travel will be conducted , but we do know that the energy cost of moving things between stars is extremely high .
As for point ( 2 ) , Earth is nothing special .
If aliens want to take our minerals , they can acquire anything they can find on Earth in much higher quantities at a much lower cost from asteroids .
They will have no logical reason to enslave us either .
Any civilisation with interstellar capability is not going to have a huge demand for manual labour .
It 's also not likely that they will come here to colonise Earth , because we ca n't assume they will be anything like human .
They may look like hundred legged spiders the size of buses who will be crushed in our gravity , or maybe sulfur based sea slugs who wo n't be able to live in our atmosphere .
This brings me to my next point : Aliens , in all likelihood , will be nothing like us .
Meaningful communication * with them may be impossible .
This does n't mean that we should n't try , but it does mean that we should n't use examples from human history to argue against contact .
Just because every time a technologically advanced civilisation has come into contact with a less advanced civilisation has resulted in disaster in the past does n't mean that contact with aliens will .
On the other hand , there are 'illogical ' reasons why aliens might invade .
One is religion .
It 's unlikely that any alien philosophy will be anything like religion as we know it , but they may have a code of conduct of a single philosophy that underpins their actions .
This is the sort of thing that we ca n't predict , but considering the cost of interstellar travel , any civilisation that makes a habit of sending ships to other worlds for the sole purpose of killing aliens is n't going to last very long .
But then again , aliens are alien .
Try as we might , we may never be able to fully understand their motives .
This is all speculation , we will never know for sure if I 'm right until we actually meet some aliens , which is yet another good reason to look for them .
-- * by 'meaningful communication ' , what I mean is an exchange of philosophies or ideas .
More fundamental things like exchanging knowledge of chemistry may be more possible .
( yet still difficult )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There has been a surprising number of comments in this discussion about the threat of invasion by an alien species.
Since I can't tell if these people are joking, I have to assume they're serious.
So let the record show that it's highly unlikely that earth is going to be invaded by aliens.
This is for two reasons:
 
1) Interstellar travel is expensive, probably even for an advanced species.
2) We have nothing they want.
I think it's safe to assume that point (1) is correct.
We know very little about how interstellar travel will be conducted, but we do know that the energy cost of moving things between stars is extremely high.
As for point (2), Earth is nothing special.
If aliens want to take our minerals, they can acquire anything they can find on Earth in much higher quantities at a much lower cost from asteroids.
They will have no logical reason to enslave us either.
Any civilisation with interstellar capability is not going to have a huge demand for manual labour.
It's also not likely that they will come here to colonise Earth, because we can't assume they will be anything like human.
They may look like hundred legged spiders the size of buses who will be crushed in our gravity, or maybe sulfur based sea slugs who won't be able to live in our atmosphere.
This brings me to my next point: 

Aliens, in all likelihood, will be nothing like us.
Meaningful communication* with them may be impossible.
This doesn't mean that we shouldn't try, but it does mean that we shouldn't use examples from human history to argue against contact.
Just because every time a technologically advanced civilisation has come into contact with a less advanced civilisation has resulted in disaster in the past doesn't mean that contact with aliens will.
On the other hand, there are 'illogical' reasons why aliens might invade.
One is religion.
It's unlikely that any alien philosophy will be anything like religion as we know it, but they may have a code of conduct of a single philosophy that underpins their actions.
This is the sort of thing that we can't predict, but considering the cost of interstellar travel, any civilisation that makes a habit of sending ships to other worlds for the sole purpose of killing aliens isn't going to last very long.
But then again, aliens are alien.
Try as we might, we may never be able to fully understand their motives.
This is all speculation, we will never know for sure if I'm right until we actually meet some aliens, which is yet another good reason to look for them.
--
*by 'meaningful communication', what I mean is an exchange of philosophies or ideas.
More fundamental things like exchanging knowledge of chemistry may be more possible.
(yet still difficult)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961820</id>
	<title>Good...</title>
	<author>dogsbreath</author>
	<datestamp>1264863660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its about time those oval-eyed, crop-circle forming, et b*st*rds stopped eavesdropping on us.  They should pay for their own cable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its about time those oval-eyed , crop-circle forming , et b * st * rds stopped eavesdropping on us .
They should pay for their own cable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its about time those oval-eyed, crop-circle forming, et b*st*rds stopped eavesdropping on us.
They should pay for their own cable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960364</id>
	<title>Re:Why can't we hear ET?</title>
	<author>starbugs</author>
	<datestamp>1264842060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I keep asking this question: Why can't we detect ET's transmissions?</p><p>Now I know. They do digital as well.</p></div><p>Not just that.</p><p>They've realized what we will also eventually realize.</p><p>They use cat6 cable.<br>Especially after we started sending all those damn microwaves into space and their wifi stopped responding.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep asking this question : Why ca n't we detect ET 's transmissions ? Now I know .
They do digital as well.Not just that.They 've realized what we will also eventually realize.They use cat6 cable.Especially after we started sending all those damn microwaves into space and their wifi stopped responding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep asking this question: Why can't we detect ET's transmissions?Now I know.
They do digital as well.Not just that.They've realized what we will also eventually realize.They use cat6 cable.Especially after we started sending all those damn microwaves into space and their wifi stopped responding.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961598</id>
	<title>Re:This is good...</title>
	<author>Bastian227</author>
	<datestamp>1264861560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if the aliens are just waiting for us to go all digital before they deal with us?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if the aliens are just waiting for us to go all digital before they deal with us ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if the aliens are just waiting for us to go all digital before they deal with us?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960442</id>
	<title>What's a few orders of magitude out of trillions?</title>
	<author>jandrese</author>
	<datestamp>1264843020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The freespace loss from Earth to <i>anywhere</i> outside of the solar system is so incredible that fretting over a couple hundred dB out of literally trillions seems ridiculous, especially with the enormous noise source of the sun practically on top of us (in a galactic sense).
<br> <br>
I've always thought the idea that an ET would detect our Radio/TV signals to be romantic at best.  This is also why SETI is pretty much pointless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The freespace loss from Earth to anywhere outside of the solar system is so incredible that fretting over a couple hundred dB out of literally trillions seems ridiculous , especially with the enormous noise source of the sun practically on top of us ( in a galactic sense ) .
I 've always thought the idea that an ET would detect our Radio/TV signals to be romantic at best .
This is also why SETI is pretty much pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The freespace loss from Earth to anywhere outside of the solar system is so incredible that fretting over a couple hundred dB out of literally trillions seems ridiculous, especially with the enormous noise source of the sun practically on top of us (in a galactic sense).
I've always thought the idea that an ET would detect our Radio/TV signals to be romantic at best.
This is also why SETI is pretty much pointless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961584</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>ascari</author>
	<datestamp>1264861380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So really what you're saying is that Earth is to extraterrestrials what Cancun is to Americans or Florida is to Canadians. In which case we can look forward to a booming tourist industry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So really what you 're saying is that Earth is to extraterrestrials what Cancun is to Americans or Florida is to Canadians .
In which case we can look forward to a booming tourist industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So really what you're saying is that Earth is to extraterrestrials what Cancun is to Americans or Florida is to Canadians.
In which case we can look forward to a booming tourist industry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963112</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1264873800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Arguably, though, any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up. Although carriers are going away, all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information. The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data, but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.</i></p><p>Not necessarily. If VLBI can detect radio noise from Quasars, it can detect radio noise from ETI with the same sensitivity.</p><p>If you use phase interferometry, you can get in principle the same SNR from an unknown incoming signal as from a matched filter decoder, and use <b>all</b> of the received power; the unpredictable signal power, as well as the more predictable synch information and carrier. All you need to optimize SNR is a knowledge of the signal bandwidth (assuming it is less than your record bandwidth). I have thought for a long time that SETI would move to a VLBI mode of operation, with widely separated receivers looking at the same patch of sky and cross-correlating the recorded radio noise. With a software correlator, and lots of CPU, you could do this for a wide variety of nominal bandwidths to look for different amounts of spread spectrum. You would also get an excellent rejection of terrestrial and satellite interference in the bargain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Arguably , though , any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up .
Although carriers are going away , all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information .
The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data , but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.Not necessarily .
If VLBI can detect radio noise from Quasars , it can detect radio noise from ETI with the same sensitivity.If you use phase interferometry , you can get in principle the same SNR from an unknown incoming signal as from a matched filter decoder , and use all of the received power ; the unpredictable signal power , as well as the more predictable synch information and carrier .
All you need to optimize SNR is a knowledge of the signal bandwidth ( assuming it is less than your record bandwidth ) .
I have thought for a long time that SETI would move to a VLBI mode of operation , with widely separated receivers looking at the same patch of sky and cross-correlating the recorded radio noise .
With a software correlator , and lots of CPU , you could do this for a wide variety of nominal bandwidths to look for different amounts of spread spectrum .
You would also get an excellent rejection of terrestrial and satellite interference in the bargain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Arguably, though, any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up.
Although carriers are going away, all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information.
The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data, but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.Not necessarily.
If VLBI can detect radio noise from Quasars, it can detect radio noise from ETI with the same sensitivity.If you use phase interferometry, you can get in principle the same SNR from an unknown incoming signal as from a matched filter decoder, and use all of the received power; the unpredictable signal power, as well as the more predictable synch information and carrier.
All you need to optimize SNR is a knowledge of the signal bandwidth (assuming it is less than your record bandwidth).
I have thought for a long time that SETI would move to a VLBI mode of operation, with widely separated receivers looking at the same patch of sky and cross-correlating the recorded radio noise.
With a software correlator, and lots of CPU, you could do this for a wide variety of nominal bandwidths to look for different amounts of spread spectrum.
You would also get an excellent rejection of terrestrial and satellite interference in the bargain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960656</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>nicc777</author>
	<datestamp>1264846620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That was exactly my first thought as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That was exactly my first thought as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was exactly my first thought as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>0123456</author>
	<datestamp>1264884480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox.  Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.</p></div><p>Except no-one in their right mind would accept that. The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system, and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.</p><p>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox .
Well , after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.Except no-one in their right mind would accept that .
The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system , and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard ( or a hundred million years without trying at all , just by tourists on a random walk ) , the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple : there are n't any... if they existed , they 'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox.
Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.Except no-one in their right mind would accept that.
The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system, and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961538</id>
	<title>Re:could be sexual reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264860720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You got any, uh, you know, uh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..... human horn?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You got any , uh , you know , uh ..... human horn ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You got any, uh, you know, uh ..... human horn?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30965062</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>turgid</author>
	<datestamp>1264842960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You presuppose that an advanced civilisation would not deliberately broadcast radio signals for others to detect?
</p><p>As another poster has mentioned, a very advanced civilisation would realise that radio technology is cheap and simple so new technological civilisations are very likely to discover it early on (as did our own).
</p><p>Not only would they therefore be trying to detect radio broadcasts from space, but I'm sure they might do some deliberate broadcasting of their own towards likely stars, in the hope ob being detected.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You presuppose that an advanced civilisation would not deliberately broadcast radio signals for others to detect ?
As another poster has mentioned , a very advanced civilisation would realise that radio technology is cheap and simple so new technological civilisations are very likely to discover it early on ( as did our own ) .
Not only would they therefore be trying to detect radio broadcasts from space , but I 'm sure they might do some deliberate broadcasting of their own towards likely stars , in the hope ob being detected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You presuppose that an advanced civilisation would not deliberately broadcast radio signals for others to detect?
As another poster has mentioned, a very advanced civilisation would realise that radio technology is cheap and simple so new technological civilisations are very likely to discover it early on (as did our own).
Not only would they therefore be trying to detect radio broadcasts from space, but I'm sure they might do some deliberate broadcasting of their own towards likely stars, in the hope ob being detected.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962120</id>
	<title>Not true for Radar</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1264866420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Basically what Frank Drake is complaining about is the disappearance of the carrier wave (the large spike of energy at the center of most broadcasts). Most broadcasts are indeed moving to a suppressed carrier, as the carrier carries no information.</p><p>That is not, however, true for radar, at least for civilian radar, which typically has a very strong carrier for detection of the returned signal. While planetary radar from Arecibo (1 MegaWatt, 305 meter antenna) is without doubt our strongest signal, in most cases a distant receiver would only be in the beam for order 1000 seconds - a single signal lasting less than an hour is unlikely to be detected light years away.</p><p>I think that our most detectable signal right now is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexrad" title="wikipedia.org">NEXRAD</a> [wikipedia.org] Doppler Weather radar, and similar systems in other countries. These are fairly dense arrays (159 in the US) and scan the horizon continuously with  (for NEXRAD) a <a href="http://www.letxa.com/nexradspecs.php" title="letxa.com">750 KW beam from a 8.5 meter dish</a> [letxa.com]. While the Arecibo radar would appear roughly 1700 times stronger to any distant alien receiver, for roughly 6 hours twice per day any alien receiver <b>anywhere</b> in the Northern sky would be scanned over more or less continuously by one or more NEXRAD beams as it rose or set across the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEXRAD\_NETWORK.jpg" title="wikipedia.org">NEXRAD array</a> [wikipedia.org]. This large duty cycle makes it much more detectable than the planetary radars, which are highly unlikely to illuminate any particular point in the sky, ever. (This beam, being directed, is also a much better signal than TV broadcasts, of comparable power, but uniformly directed to the entire horizon at once.)</p><p>So, I think that Frake Drake is worried a little unnecessarily. We are still pumping out a lot of power for aliens to see, if they are there and care to look.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically what Frank Drake is complaining about is the disappearance of the carrier wave ( the large spike of energy at the center of most broadcasts ) .
Most broadcasts are indeed moving to a suppressed carrier , as the carrier carries no information.That is not , however , true for radar , at least for civilian radar , which typically has a very strong carrier for detection of the returned signal .
While planetary radar from Arecibo ( 1 MegaWatt , 305 meter antenna ) is without doubt our strongest signal , in most cases a distant receiver would only be in the beam for order 1000 seconds - a single signal lasting less than an hour is unlikely to be detected light years away.I think that our most detectable signal right now is the NEXRAD [ wikipedia.org ] Doppler Weather radar , and similar systems in other countries .
These are fairly dense arrays ( 159 in the US ) and scan the horizon continuously with ( for NEXRAD ) a 750 KW beam from a 8.5 meter dish [ letxa.com ] .
While the Arecibo radar would appear roughly 1700 times stronger to any distant alien receiver , for roughly 6 hours twice per day any alien receiver anywhere in the Northern sky would be scanned over more or less continuously by one or more NEXRAD beams as it rose or set across the NEXRAD array [ wikipedia.org ] .
This large duty cycle makes it much more detectable than the planetary radars , which are highly unlikely to illuminate any particular point in the sky , ever .
( This beam , being directed , is also a much better signal than TV broadcasts , of comparable power , but uniformly directed to the entire horizon at once .
) So , I think that Frake Drake is worried a little unnecessarily .
We are still pumping out a lot of power for aliens to see , if they are there and care to look .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically what Frank Drake is complaining about is the disappearance of the carrier wave (the large spike of energy at the center of most broadcasts).
Most broadcasts are indeed moving to a suppressed carrier, as the carrier carries no information.That is not, however, true for radar, at least for civilian radar, which typically has a very strong carrier for detection of the returned signal.
While planetary radar from Arecibo (1 MegaWatt, 305 meter antenna) is without doubt our strongest signal, in most cases a distant receiver would only be in the beam for order 1000 seconds - a single signal lasting less than an hour is unlikely to be detected light years away.I think that our most detectable signal right now is the NEXRAD [wikipedia.org] Doppler Weather radar, and similar systems in other countries.
These are fairly dense arrays (159 in the US) and scan the horizon continuously with  (for NEXRAD) a 750 KW beam from a 8.5 meter dish [letxa.com].
While the Arecibo radar would appear roughly 1700 times stronger to any distant alien receiver, for roughly 6 hours twice per day any alien receiver anywhere in the Northern sky would be scanned over more or less continuously by one or more NEXRAD beams as it rose or set across the NEXRAD array [wikipedia.org].
This large duty cycle makes it much more detectable than the planetary radars, which are highly unlikely to illuminate any particular point in the sky, ever.
(This beam, being directed, is also a much better signal than TV broadcasts, of comparable power, but uniformly directed to the entire horizon at once.
)So, I think that Frake Drake is worried a little unnecessarily.
We are still pumping out a lot of power for aliens to see, if they are there and care to look.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964354</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>h00manist</author>
	<datestamp>1264881180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, yes, we were just planted here a few millenia ago, and the farmers will be back soon, at harvest time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , yes , we were just planted here a few millenia ago , and the farmers will be back soon , at harvest time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, yes, we were just planted here a few millenia ago, and the farmers will be back soon, at harvest time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960236</id>
	<title>perhaps</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering how the meeting between two civilizations, one more avanced than the other has generally gone badly for the majority of human history, it may not be such a bad idea to keep ourselves quiet until their intentions are shown to be peaceful/cooperative.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering how the meeting between two civilizations , one more avanced than the other has generally gone badly for the majority of human history , it may not be such a bad idea to keep ourselves quiet until their intentions are shown to be peaceful/cooperative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering how the meeting between two civilizations, one more avanced than the other has generally gone badly for the majority of human history, it may not be such a bad idea to keep ourselves quiet until their intentions are shown to be peaceful/cooperative.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962338</id>
	<title>Seriously.</title>
	<author>ral8158</author>
	<datestamp>1264868040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good. Maybe people will stop wasting their time on SETI and putting their processors to use for something that's actually an immediate and local issue, like Folding@Home.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good .
Maybe people will stop wasting their time on SETI and putting their processors to use for something that 's actually an immediate and local issue , like Folding @ Home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good.
Maybe people will stop wasting their time on SETI and putting their processors to use for something that's actually an immediate and local issue, like Folding@Home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30967940</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>tftp</author>
	<datestamp>1264870860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us [...] so they must be truculent and violent like we are</i>
</p><p>
It is not unreasonable as a first guess. We are violent because it is our survival mechanism. Top predators have few offspring, they can't afford large losses. Rabbits multiply like rabbits, they depend on that instead of their teeth and claws.
</p><p>
The question is really when (or whether) the society transitions from violent survival mode to relaxed, peaceful mode. That's not easy to answer because our behavior is coded in our genes. Some civilizations, like Klingons, may even cherish this trait. We don't know how likely it is, but the one sample we have - ourselves - tells us that it's not an easy answer. And we can't even say that we are unique in our violent roots - there doesn't seem to be anything unnatural in what we do and how we ended up this way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us [ ... ] so they must be truculent and violent like we are It is not unreasonable as a first guess .
We are violent because it is our survival mechanism .
Top predators have few offspring , they ca n't afford large losses .
Rabbits multiply like rabbits , they depend on that instead of their teeth and claws .
The question is really when ( or whether ) the society transitions from violent survival mode to relaxed , peaceful mode .
That 's not easy to answer because our behavior is coded in our genes .
Some civilizations , like Klingons , may even cherish this trait .
We do n't know how likely it is , but the one sample we have - ourselves - tells us that it 's not an easy answer .
And we ca n't even say that we are unique in our violent roots - there does n't seem to be anything unnatural in what we do and how we ended up this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us [...] so they must be truculent and violent like we are

It is not unreasonable as a first guess.
We are violent because it is our survival mechanism.
Top predators have few offspring, they can't afford large losses.
Rabbits multiply like rabbits, they depend on that instead of their teeth and claws.
The question is really when (or whether) the society transitions from violent survival mode to relaxed, peaceful mode.
That's not easy to answer because our behavior is coded in our genes.
Some civilizations, like Klingons, may even cherish this trait.
We don't know how likely it is, but the one sample we have - ourselves - tells us that it's not an easy answer.
And we can't even say that we are unique in our violent roots - there doesn't seem to be anything unnatural in what we do and how we ended up this way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960766</id>
	<title>Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264848780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes - however there is a solution. We could get all those people who used to work at NASA on the space flight programmes to look skywards and whine. We'll be heard, but no one will come here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes - however there is a solution .
We could get all those people who used to work at NASA on the space flight programmes to look skywards and whine .
We 'll be heard , but no one will come here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes - however there is a solution.
We could get all those people who used to work at NASA on the space flight programmes to look skywards and whine.
We'll be heard, but no one will come here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961190</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Dr.Syshalt</author>
	<datestamp>1264855440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</p></div><p>Life reproduces itself not for economic reasons either.<br>
Expansion is one of the basic principles of any life form. That's how humans populated the Earth, that's why we are dreaming of populating other planets. Populate as many niches as you can so if a part of you population is being exterminated by some catastrophe, your specie would not extinct.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons.Life reproduces itself not for economic reasons either .
Expansion is one of the basic principles of any life form .
That 's how humans populated the Earth , that 's why we are dreaming of populating other planets .
Populate as many niches as you can so if a part of you population is being exterminated by some catastrophe , your specie would not extinct .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.Life reproduces itself not for economic reasons either.
Expansion is one of the basic principles of any life form.
That's how humans populated the Earth, that's why we are dreaming of populating other planets.
Populate as many niches as you can so if a part of you population is being exterminated by some catastrophe, your specie would not extinct.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961052</id>
	<title>Nerds Are Making It Hard For Girls To Find Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264853280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interestingly, the related girlfriend-calculation (discussed before, http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/01/13/1510229/Man-Uses-Drake-Equation-To-Explain-Girlfriend-Woes) makes the same error with the parameter L by applying the age of the nerd, instead of the sexually useful lifespan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interestingly , the related girlfriend-calculation ( discussed before , http : //science.slashdot.org/story/10/01/13/1510229/Man-Uses-Drake-Equation-To-Explain-Girlfriend-Woes ) makes the same error with the parameter L by applying the age of the nerd , instead of the sexually useful lifespan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interestingly, the related girlfriend-calculation (discussed before, http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/01/13/1510229/Man-Uses-Drake-Equation-To-Explain-Girlfriend-Woes) makes the same error with the parameter L by applying the age of the nerd, instead of the sexually useful lifespan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960830</id>
	<title>What about moonbounce?</title>
	<author>Gordonjcp</author>
	<datestamp>1264849620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People throw massive amounts of RF at the Moon, with high-powered transmitters and highly directional aerials.  Using the same highly-directional aerials you can receive the very faint echo of your signal reflected off the Moon.  The reason it's faint is that most of it misses, and when it reflects off the convex curve of the Moon most of it diverges into space.</p><p>Now, while this used to be used by various government and military comms people, it's mostly done by radio amateurs now, using equipment that wouldn't take over much of the average suburban back garden.  If you threw the resources of a large radio telescope at it (like for example <a href="http://websdr.camras.nl:8901/" title="camras.nl">CAMRAS</a> [camras.nl]) then you could detect very tiny signals indeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People throw massive amounts of RF at the Moon , with high-powered transmitters and highly directional aerials .
Using the same highly-directional aerials you can receive the very faint echo of your signal reflected off the Moon .
The reason it 's faint is that most of it misses , and when it reflects off the convex curve of the Moon most of it diverges into space.Now , while this used to be used by various government and military comms people , it 's mostly done by radio amateurs now , using equipment that would n't take over much of the average suburban back garden .
If you threw the resources of a large radio telescope at it ( like for example CAMRAS [ camras.nl ] ) then you could detect very tiny signals indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People throw massive amounts of RF at the Moon, with high-powered transmitters and highly directional aerials.
Using the same highly-directional aerials you can receive the very faint echo of your signal reflected off the Moon.
The reason it's faint is that most of it misses, and when it reflects off the convex curve of the Moon most of it diverges into space.Now, while this used to be used by various government and military comms people, it's mostly done by radio amateurs now, using equipment that wouldn't take over much of the average suburban back garden.
If you threw the resources of a large radio telescope at it (like for example CAMRAS [camras.nl]) then you could detect very tiny signals indeed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960776</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Nightspirit</author>
	<datestamp>1264848960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Slaves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slaves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slaves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960922</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>localman</author>
	<datestamp>1264850760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a feeling you are vastly underestimating the cost of travel and colonization and vastly overestimating the value of other worlds.</p><p>As an example: what value would we get out of colonizing the moon.  Or Venus or Mars?  I've read a lot of good sci-fi too, but if your'e honest about it the answer is: not much.  We can't even bring ourselves to build reasonable colonies underwater on earth, or at the south pole -- environments that are orders of magnitude easier to reach and tame.</p><p>We are far more adapted to this planet, indeed, very specific parts of this planet, than we like to realize.  The same is likely true of other evolved lifeforms in the universe.  The energy and material costs of getting to and from our nearest neighbor star, and the timescales involved, would outweigh any resource advantage acquired there.  It's not a fair extrapolation from our success in spreading the human race across this planet -- technology is not going to allow us to circumvent the speed of light.</p><p>I find it interesting that anyone would choose to believe that we are unique amongst a billion billion worlds than to believe that we and our limitations are common.  Given that there's no actual evidence either way, of course.</p><p>Cheers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a feeling you are vastly underestimating the cost of travel and colonization and vastly overestimating the value of other worlds.As an example : what value would we get out of colonizing the moon .
Or Venus or Mars ?
I 've read a lot of good sci-fi too , but if your'e honest about it the answer is : not much .
We ca n't even bring ourselves to build reasonable colonies underwater on earth , or at the south pole -- environments that are orders of magnitude easier to reach and tame.We are far more adapted to this planet , indeed , very specific parts of this planet , than we like to realize .
The same is likely true of other evolved lifeforms in the universe .
The energy and material costs of getting to and from our nearest neighbor star , and the timescales involved , would outweigh any resource advantage acquired there .
It 's not a fair extrapolation from our success in spreading the human race across this planet -- technology is not going to allow us to circumvent the speed of light.I find it interesting that anyone would choose to believe that we are unique amongst a billion billion worlds than to believe that we and our limitations are common .
Given that there 's no actual evidence either way , of course.Cheers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a feeling you are vastly underestimating the cost of travel and colonization and vastly overestimating the value of other worlds.As an example: what value would we get out of colonizing the moon.
Or Venus or Mars?
I've read a lot of good sci-fi too, but if your'e honest about it the answer is: not much.
We can't even bring ourselves to build reasonable colonies underwater on earth, or at the south pole -- environments that are orders of magnitude easier to reach and tame.We are far more adapted to this planet, indeed, very specific parts of this planet, than we like to realize.
The same is likely true of other evolved lifeforms in the universe.
The energy and material costs of getting to and from our nearest neighbor star, and the timescales involved, would outweigh any resource advantage acquired there.
It's not a fair extrapolation from our success in spreading the human race across this planet -- technology is not going to allow us to circumvent the speed of light.I find it interesting that anyone would choose to believe that we are unique amongst a billion billion worlds than to believe that we and our limitations are common.
Given that there's no actual evidence either way, of course.Cheers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963566</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264876320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species</p></div><p>So? Is that supposed to be a bad thing? Am I supposed to give a shit about the human species over and above, say, some species of ants? Why? Just because I happen to be a member? That's idiotic. I value myself but fuck everyone else and fuck the species as a whole. Group think sucks.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our speciesSo ?
Is that supposed to be a bad thing ?
Am I supposed to give a shit about the human species over and above , say , some species of ants ?
Why ? Just because I happen to be a member ?
That 's idiotic .
I value myself but fuck everyone else and fuck the species as a whole .
Group think sucks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our speciesSo?
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
Am I supposed to give a shit about the human species over and above, say, some species of ants?
Why? Just because I happen to be a member?
That's idiotic.
I value myself but fuck everyone else and fuck the species as a whole.
Group think sucks.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960346</id>
	<title>Don't forget "Active SETI"</title>
	<author>l2718</author>
	<datestamp>1264885020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There have been <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active\_SETI" title="wikipedia.org">several attempts</a> [wikipedia.org] at sending radio messages into space specifically for communication purposes.  Whether we keep that up or not is independent of our use of radio for intraplanentary communications.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There have been several attempts [ wikipedia.org ] at sending radio messages into space specifically for communication purposes .
Whether we keep that up or not is independent of our use of radio for intraplanentary communications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There have been several attempts [wikipedia.org] at sending radio messages into space specifically for communication purposes.
Whether we keep that up or not is independent of our use of radio for intraplanentary communications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960840</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>bazorg</author>
	<datestamp>1264849740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the only thing they might outweigh the cost of that invasion is staying permanently in the invaded planet. There are plenty of films about that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>the only thing they might outweigh the cost of that invasion is staying permanently in the invaded planet .
There are plenty of films about that : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the only thing they might outweigh the cost of that invasion is staying permanently in the invaded planet.
There are plenty of films about that :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960716</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264847940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they can get here they'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us.</p></div><p>So, you're saying we're either Wikipedia or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/b/?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they can get here they 'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us.So , you 're saying we 're either Wikipedia or /b/ ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they can get here they'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us.So, you're saying we're either Wikipedia or /b/?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960254</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>grouchomarxist</author>
	<datestamp>1264884120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It would be easier for us to inhabit the Moon or Mars or the oceans or underground or where ever than to go to a new solar system. I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology. If they can get here they'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be easier for us to inhabit the Moon or Mars or the oceans or underground or where ever than to go to a new solar system .
I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology .
If they can get here they 'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be easier for us to inhabit the Moon or Mars or the oceans or underground or where ever than to go to a new solar system.
I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology.
If they can get here they'll probably either come for research or just to fuck with us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961552</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>JoeMerchant</author>
	<datestamp>1264860840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
Scary, yes, but if there is no FTL travel, the probability of this being a problem becomes vanishingly small.  You're talking about a 200 year "problem" window out of a 4 billion year development time, there are a lot of stars in the galaxy, but I don't think we've got 20 million habitable planets within 200 light years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Scary , yes , but if there is no FTL travel , the probability of this being a problem becomes vanishingly small .
You 're talking about a 200 year " problem " window out of a 4 billion year development time , there are a lot of stars in the galaxy , but I do n't think we 've got 20 million habitable planets within 200 light years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Scary, yes, but if there is no FTL travel, the probability of this being a problem becomes vanishingly small.
You're talking about a 200 year "problem" window out of a 4 billion year development time, there are a lot of stars in the galaxy, but I don't think we've got 20 million habitable planets within 200 light years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960448</id>
	<title>ping. ping: you'r pwned!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264843140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>loudest noises we make into space are radar-type pings to gauge distances of asteroids, etc.</p><p>who makes those pings?</p><p>astronomers!</p><p>please guys, just cut the noise before the aliens come and make us stop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>loudest noises we make into space are radar-type pings to gauge distances of asteroids , etc.who makes those pings ? astronomers ! please guys , just cut the noise before the aliens come and make us stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>loudest noises we make into space are radar-type pings to gauge distances of asteroids, etc.who makes those pings?astronomers!please guys, just cut the noise before the aliens come and make us stop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960546</id>
	<title>Encryption in space</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264844520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The smart aliens will use full encryption anyways so no way to tell any transmission apart from background radiation noise anyways. Think TrueCrypt plausible deniability<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The smart aliens will use full encryption anyways so no way to tell any transmission apart from background radiation noise anyways .
Think TrueCrypt plausible deniability ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The smart aliens will use full encryption anyways so no way to tell any transmission apart from background radiation noise anyways.
Think TrueCrypt plausible deniability ;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960532</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>bhartman34</author>
	<datestamp>1264844400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Doesn't that assume minimal technological progress? It could be that the cost of transporting an invasion fleet great distances could be much <i>less</i> for a sufficiently advanced civilization.  Technology has a way of becoming cheaper over time.
<br> <br>
I kind of agree with your general conclusion, though:  If we do get invaded, it will probably be for entertainment purposes.  The distance between us and the prospective invaders is almost certainly sufficient that they could acquire whatever they needed from a more local planet (unless there's some unique property to human beings that they need -- but I sincerely doubt that, given the fact that the elements in our bodies seem to be readily available elsewhere in the universe).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device , the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth .
Does n't that assume minimal technological progress ?
It could be that the cost of transporting an invasion fleet great distances could be much less for a sufficiently advanced civilization .
Technology has a way of becoming cheaper over time .
I kind of agree with your general conclusion , though : If we do get invaded , it will probably be for entertainment purposes .
The distance between us and the prospective invaders is almost certainly sufficient that they could acquire whatever they needed from a more local planet ( unless there 's some unique property to human beings that they need -- but I sincerely doubt that , given the fact that the elements in our bodies seem to be readily available elsewhere in the universe ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.
Doesn't that assume minimal technological progress?
It could be that the cost of transporting an invasion fleet great distances could be much less for a sufficiently advanced civilization.
Technology has a way of becoming cheaper over time.
I kind of agree with your general conclusion, though:  If we do get invaded, it will probably be for entertainment purposes.
The distance between us and the prospective invaders is almost certainly sufficient that they could acquire whatever they needed from a more local planet (unless there's some unique property to human beings that they need -- but I sincerely doubt that, given the fact that the elements in our bodies seem to be readily available elsewhere in the universe).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962080</id>
	<title>invasion? Are you sure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264866060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well guys  think about that: an alien and aggressive empire look like probably such all military organizations in the earth. TOO SERIOUS. Mean only one thing: take broadcast comunication only for serious things. Military dont use broadcast coms for send music or for watch futurama. Probably they think that we use broadcast for told to "retard civilians" real stories and they think that hollwood movies are real. GOD WE ARE SAFE.<br>we destroy the aggressive martians neighborhoods in war of the worlds<br>we destroy a invasion with computer virus (???) in indipendence day<br>we defend our mother earth a lot of times and we win against any sort of aliens. Thanks Hollywood lol<br>That's mean that they have fear of us and they monitoring us and when they dont recieve any comunications to sol 3, they open a bottle of alien champagne and do a alien military party<br>"WAHOOO HURRAAHH! somebody defeat this bustards humans! Now we are only the aggressive military alien specie in all galaxy!"<br>ROTFL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well guys think about that : an alien and aggressive empire look like probably such all military organizations in the earth .
TOO SERIOUS .
Mean only one thing : take broadcast comunication only for serious things .
Military dont use broadcast coms for send music or for watch futurama .
Probably they think that we use broadcast for told to " retard civilians " real stories and they think that hollwood movies are real .
GOD WE ARE SAFE.we destroy the aggressive martians neighborhoods in war of the worldswe destroy a invasion with computer virus ( ? ? ?
) in indipendence daywe defend our mother earth a lot of times and we win against any sort of aliens .
Thanks Hollywood lolThat 's mean that they have fear of us and they monitoring us and when they dont recieve any comunications to sol 3 , they open a bottle of alien champagne and do a alien military party " WAHOOO HURRAAHH !
somebody defeat this bustards humans !
Now we are only the aggressive military alien specie in all galaxy !
" ROTFL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well guys  think about that: an alien and aggressive empire look like probably such all military organizations in the earth.
TOO SERIOUS.
Mean only one thing: take broadcast comunication only for serious things.
Military dont use broadcast coms for send music or for watch futurama.
Probably they think that we use broadcast for told to "retard civilians" real stories and they think that hollwood movies are real.
GOD WE ARE SAFE.we destroy the aggressive martians neighborhoods in war of the worldswe destroy a invasion with computer virus (???
) in indipendence daywe defend our mother earth a lot of times and we win against any sort of aliens.
Thanks Hollywood lolThat's mean that they have fear of us and they monitoring us and when they dont recieve any comunications to sol 3, they open a bottle of alien champagne and do a alien military party"WAHOOO HURRAAHH!
somebody defeat this bustards humans!
Now we are only the aggressive military alien specie in all galaxy!
"ROTFL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961244</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>garompeta</author>
	<datestamp>1264856340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think we are all missing the point. If a civilization is capable of making a portal to teleport instantly to any place in the universe and having ships with crazy advanced technology, wouldn't be logical that they are capable and have enough dominion over the physical realm? Then, it wouldn't be that hard for them to transmute matter and make water from any other atomic element, or air, or whatever they want or need.<p>

We are in the XXI century just are beginning to see the Fusion Reactor (literally having a little sun in our cities), an era of limitless and cheap electricity, a very promising limitless future for all our energy needs. And I am certain I will die seeing one working efficiently.<br>
Don't you think it would be plausible that an highly advanced civilization that is capable of "instant" teleportation will be able to create full blown suns, in principle it will be scaling up to what we are going to have in this century. Even our human scientists, with our current XXI century "rudimentary knowledge" would be capable of theorizing such a device TODAY.
I imagine that such an advanced civilization would have mastered principles that we CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE.</p><p>

In such an advanced civilization, economic needs are past of their prehistory.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we are all missing the point .
If a civilization is capable of making a portal to teleport instantly to any place in the universe and having ships with crazy advanced technology , would n't be logical that they are capable and have enough dominion over the physical realm ?
Then , it would n't be that hard for them to transmute matter and make water from any other atomic element , or air , or whatever they want or need .
We are in the XXI century just are beginning to see the Fusion Reactor ( literally having a little sun in our cities ) , an era of limitless and cheap electricity , a very promising limitless future for all our energy needs .
And I am certain I will die seeing one working efficiently .
Do n't you think it would be plausible that an highly advanced civilization that is capable of " instant " teleportation will be able to create full blown suns , in principle it will be scaling up to what we are going to have in this century .
Even our human scientists , with our current XXI century " rudimentary knowledge " would be capable of theorizing such a device TODAY .
I imagine that such an advanced civilization would have mastered principles that we CA N'T EVEN IMAGINE .
In such an advanced civilization , economic needs are past of their prehistory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we are all missing the point.
If a civilization is capable of making a portal to teleport instantly to any place in the universe and having ships with crazy advanced technology, wouldn't be logical that they are capable and have enough dominion over the physical realm?
Then, it wouldn't be that hard for them to transmute matter and make water from any other atomic element, or air, or whatever they want or need.
We are in the XXI century just are beginning to see the Fusion Reactor (literally having a little sun in our cities), an era of limitless and cheap electricity, a very promising limitless future for all our energy needs.
And I am certain I will die seeing one working efficiently.
Don't you think it would be plausible that an highly advanced civilization that is capable of "instant" teleportation will be able to create full blown suns, in principle it will be scaling up to what we are going to have in this century.
Even our human scientists, with our current XXI century "rudimentary knowledge" would be capable of theorizing such a device TODAY.
I imagine that such an advanced civilization would have mastered principles that we CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE.
In such an advanced civilization, economic needs are past of their prehistory.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</id>
	<title>Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>AnotherUsername</author>
	<datestamp>1264884240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was under the impression that historically, our radio and tv signals didn't even make it to Alpha Centauri.  Unless we suddenly discover extra-terrestrial life inside of our solar system, does the switch to digital really change anything?  Correct me if I am wrong, please.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was under the impression that historically , our radio and tv signals did n't even make it to Alpha Centauri .
Unless we suddenly discover extra-terrestrial life inside of our solar system , does the switch to digital really change anything ?
Correct me if I am wrong , please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was under the impression that historically, our radio and tv signals didn't even make it to Alpha Centauri.
Unless we suddenly discover extra-terrestrial life inside of our solar system, does the switch to digital really change anything?
Correct me if I am wrong, please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963742</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>nawitus</author>
	<datestamp>1264877220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The obvious value is to destroy an threat to their existence, or to use the planet's resources for computation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The obvious value is to destroy an threat to their existence , or to use the planet 's resources for computation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The obvious value is to destroy an threat to their existence, or to use the planet's resources for computation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964414</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>olman</author>
	<datestamp>1264881660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"magic infinite energy source" is spelled interstellar hydrogen, no? Bussard Ramjet can conceivably generate "free" energy. Besides which, consider extremely advanced society with wast resources.  Then consider George W. Are you scared yet?</p><p>It doesn't take many people acting irrationally to screw you up sideways if they have a slice of huge resource base. You have to consider aliens might be acting for religious or ideological basis, and just a small minority of their society.</p><p>In any case, "invasion fleet" would need about exactly one ship, one. We have zero defense against a spaceship which has capability to move in stellar space, never mind interstellar.</p><p>Yeah, if they're kind and give us couple of years, we can for sure build orion and go get them. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_Orion\_(nuclear\_propulsion)" title="wikipedia.org">no, no, not the nasa boondoggle killed in crib, the real deal from 50s</a> [wikipedia.org]! Unfortunately "they" would have the absolute high ground and would most likely have the means to take out fairly primitive nuclear propulsion spacecraft without breaking sweat.</p><p>Now that they have de facto taken governor generalship of earth, what are they going to do with it? Occupy earth? Ha. Hardly likely. More like some kind of deal where X amount of industrial and energy output would be devoted to whatever our saviours bloody well want. Or else. Then again, what would they want? If it's more starships, they'd be giving us the technology and industrial base to go get them. Bring us freedom? Convert us? Make us biggest reality TV show ever?</p><p>Who knows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" magic infinite energy source " is spelled interstellar hydrogen , no ?
Bussard Ramjet can conceivably generate " free " energy .
Besides which , consider extremely advanced society with wast resources .
Then consider George W. Are you scared yet ? It does n't take many people acting irrationally to screw you up sideways if they have a slice of huge resource base .
You have to consider aliens might be acting for religious or ideological basis , and just a small minority of their society.In any case , " invasion fleet " would need about exactly one ship , one .
We have zero defense against a spaceship which has capability to move in stellar space , never mind interstellar.Yeah , if they 're kind and give us couple of years , we can for sure build orion and go get them .
no , no , not the nasa boondoggle killed in crib , the real deal from 50s [ wikipedia.org ] !
Unfortunately " they " would have the absolute high ground and would most likely have the means to take out fairly primitive nuclear propulsion spacecraft without breaking sweat.Now that they have de facto taken governor generalship of earth , what are they going to do with it ?
Occupy earth ?
Ha. Hardly likely .
More like some kind of deal where X amount of industrial and energy output would be devoted to whatever our saviours bloody well want .
Or else .
Then again , what would they want ?
If it 's more starships , they 'd be giving us the technology and industrial base to go get them .
Bring us freedom ?
Convert us ?
Make us biggest reality TV show ever ? Who knows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"magic infinite energy source" is spelled interstellar hydrogen, no?
Bussard Ramjet can conceivably generate "free" energy.
Besides which, consider extremely advanced society with wast resources.
Then consider George W. Are you scared yet?It doesn't take many people acting irrationally to screw you up sideways if they have a slice of huge resource base.
You have to consider aliens might be acting for religious or ideological basis, and just a small minority of their society.In any case, "invasion fleet" would need about exactly one ship, one.
We have zero defense against a spaceship which has capability to move in stellar space, never mind interstellar.Yeah, if they're kind and give us couple of years, we can for sure build orion and go get them.
no, no, not the nasa boondoggle killed in crib, the real deal from 50s [wikipedia.org]!
Unfortunately "they" would have the absolute high ground and would most likely have the means to take out fairly primitive nuclear propulsion spacecraft without breaking sweat.Now that they have de facto taken governor generalship of earth, what are they going to do with it?
Occupy earth?
Ha. Hardly likely.
More like some kind of deal where X amount of industrial and energy output would be devoted to whatever our saviours bloody well want.
Or else.
Then again, what would they want?
If it's more starships, they'd be giving us the technology and industrial base to go get them.
Bring us freedom?
Convert us?
Make us biggest reality TV show ever?Who knows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961678</id>
	<title>It's moot.</title>
	<author>jonadab</author>
	<datestamp>1264862340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If there were anybody out there *half* as interested in communicating as we are, they'd have found a way to contact us by now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If there were anybody out there * half * as interested in communicating as we are , they 'd have found a way to contact us by now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If there were anybody out there *half* as interested in communicating as we are, they'd have found a way to contact us by now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30968272</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>Sean Hederman</author>
	<datestamp>1264875840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're wrong. Our transmissions will gradually get weaker and weaker, but there is nothing that stops them. Each photon emitted by our transmissions will travel forever until it hits something. Some of them may hit dust grains close by, some may make it to other galaxies, some may travel on till the end of Time/Big Bang/Insert Apocalypse of your choice here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're wrong .
Our transmissions will gradually get weaker and weaker , but there is nothing that stops them .
Each photon emitted by our transmissions will travel forever until it hits something .
Some of them may hit dust grains close by , some may make it to other galaxies , some may travel on till the end of Time/Big Bang/Insert Apocalypse of your choice here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're wrong.
Our transmissions will gradually get weaker and weaker, but there is nothing that stops them.
Each photon emitted by our transmissions will travel forever until it hits something.
Some of them may hit dust grains close by, some may make it to other galaxies, some may travel on till the end of Time/Big Bang/Insert Apocalypse of your choice here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960298</id>
	<title>Why can't we hear ET?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264884720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I keep asking this question: Why can't we detect ET's transmissions?</p><p>Now I know. They do digital as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep asking this question : Why ca n't we detect ET 's transmissions ? Now I know .
They do digital as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep asking this question: Why can't we detect ET's transmissions?Now I know.
They do digital as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</id>
	<title>This has its perks</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1264883580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located.
</p><p>
We gotta consider the possibility, that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time,  and with the sophistication to pinpoint us....
</p><p>
Might have the technology and desire to  invade earth.
</p><p>
E.g.  Consider earth itself...  fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive  overpopulation,  lack of resources, land,  severe overcrowding.
</p><p>
Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.
</p><p>
And then you detect an alien signal..  a foreign world.
You step foot there, and you're greeted by basically an aboriginal species  (compared to your civilization).
</p><p>
Habitable world,  massive resources,   very primitive 21st-century level technology, nothing compared to your  23rd century tech.
</p><p>
Oh....  so  some colonists start travelling  from earth to 'the new world'  for a better life.
</p><p>
Settlers VS the Natives all over again.
</p><p>
It's happened before, it could happen again.
Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / "Indians" /  etc.
</p><p>
Scary, huh?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located .
We got ta consider the possibility , that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time , and with the sophistication to pinpoint us... . Might have the technology and desire to invade earth .
E.g. Consider earth itself... fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive overpopulation , lack of resources , land , severe overcrowding .
Extreme desire for another habitable place to live .
And then you detect an alien signal.. a foreign world .
You step foot there , and you 're greeted by basically an aboriginal species ( compared to your civilization ) .
Habitable world , massive resources , very primitive 21st-century level technology , nothing compared to your 23rd century tech .
Oh.... so some colonists start travelling from earth to 'the new world ' for a better life .
Settlers VS the Natives all over again .
It 's happened before , it could happen again .
Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / " Indians " / etc .
Scary , huh ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located.
We gotta consider the possibility, that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time,  and with the sophistication to pinpoint us....

Might have the technology and desire to  invade earth.
E.g.  Consider earth itself...  fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive  overpopulation,  lack of resources, land,  severe overcrowding.
Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.
And then you detect an alien signal..  a foreign world.
You step foot there, and you're greeted by basically an aboriginal species  (compared to your civilization).
Habitable world,  massive resources,   very primitive 21st-century level technology, nothing compared to your  23rd century tech.
Oh....  so  some colonists start travelling  from earth to 'the new world'  for a better life.
Settlers VS the Natives all over again.
It's happened before, it could happen again.
Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / "Indians" /  etc.
Scary, huh?
:)
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960748</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1264848480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right, but I am pretty sure the assumption was that this length of time is generally a lot longer than it actually has been for us... for the simple reason that ubiquitous low-power transmission was not foreseen as a partial replacement for centralized, high-power transmission.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , but I am pretty sure the assumption was that this length of time is generally a lot longer than it actually has been for us... for the simple reason that ubiquitous low-power transmission was not foreseen as a partial replacement for centralized , high-power transmission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, but I am pretty sure the assumption was that this length of time is generally a lot longer than it actually has been for us... for the simple reason that ubiquitous low-power transmission was not foreseen as a partial replacement for centralized, high-power transmission.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960388</id>
	<title>1UP Drake's 7</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1264842240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mick Jagger said it best - "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."</p><p>All that funding for so many years just to realize it was all a waste. How about we sell SETI to fund a real space program? Like one to bring back some stupid moon rocks? American moon rocks - or better yet i'll take that money and spend it on a robotic whore. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=091ugdiojEM" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=091ugdiojEM</a> [youtube.com]</p><p>I swear this country gets closer to "Idiocracy" every year...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mick Jagger said it best - " Fuck 'em if they ca n't take a joke .
" All that funding for so many years just to realize it was all a waste .
How about we sell SETI to fund a real space program ?
Like one to bring back some stupid moon rocks ?
American moon rocks - or better yet i 'll take that money and spend it on a robotic whore .
http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 091ugdiojEM [ youtube.com ] I swear this country gets closer to " Idiocracy " every year.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mick Jagger said it best - "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
"All that funding for so many years just to realize it was all a waste.
How about we sell SETI to fund a real space program?
Like one to bring back some stupid moon rocks?
American moon rocks - or better yet i'll take that money and spend it on a robotic whore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=091ugdiojEM [youtube.com]I swear this country gets closer to "Idiocracy" every year...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962572</id>
	<title>Re:In another galaxy... sentients are wondering...</title>
	<author>line-bundle</author>
	<datestamp>1264870020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fantastic!</p><p>Much like the short story "They're made of meat" by Terry Bisson.</p><p><a href="http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html" title="terrybisson.com">http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html</a> [terrybisson.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fantastic ! Much like the short story " They 're made of meat " by Terry Bisson.http : //www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html [ terrybisson.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fantastic!Much like the short story "They're made of meat" by Terry Bisson.http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html [terrybisson.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961408</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960228</id>
	<title>This is good...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264883880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is good news. And overdue.</p><p>We've been a stupidly noisy duck for far too long.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is good news .
And overdue.We 've been a stupidly noisy duck for far too long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is good news.
And overdue.We've been a stupidly noisy duck for far too long.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960452</id>
	<title>Not all signals are communications</title>
	<author>Beryllium Sphere(tm)</author>
	<datestamp>1264843140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Military over-the-horizon radars put out a lot of power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Military over-the-horizon radars put out a lot of power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Military over-the-horizon radars put out a lot of power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960398</id>
	<title>Maybe this is a good thing?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264842420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In nature, young defenceless animals which make too much noise and bring attention to themselves often get invited to dinner by predators. Discuss.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In nature , young defenceless animals which make too much noise and bring attention to themselves often get invited to dinner by predators .
Discuss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In nature, young defenceless animals which make too much noise and bring attention to themselves often get invited to dinner by predators.
Discuss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960836</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1264849680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone considered the possibility that the things mentioned here, and in the parent, have been stated about 50 times already in this same thread?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the possibility that the things mentioned here , and in the parent , have been stated about 50 times already in this same thread ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the possibility that the things mentioned here, and in the parent, have been stated about 50 times already in this same thread?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961364</id>
	<title>Pity the aliens</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264857960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to feel sorry for the aliens. They'll be watching Lost for 5 years, hoping that it gets better. At the point that the questions are finally addressed, the series disappears from their air waves.</p><p>I half expect them to invade just to buy the boxset.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to feel sorry for the aliens .
They 'll be watching Lost for 5 years , hoping that it gets better .
At the point that the questions are finally addressed , the series disappears from their air waves.I half expect them to invade just to buy the boxset .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to feel sorry for the aliens.
They'll be watching Lost for 5 years, hoping that it gets better.
At the point that the questions are finally addressed, the series disappears from their air waves.I half expect them to invade just to buy the boxset.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961978</id>
	<title>Other Colonies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264865220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't Super advanced civilisations have colonies on other planets, other stars?<br>In which case they would want to comunicate with them right...<br>So they would have powerful transmitters....</p><p>Anyway As far as I know you still need very powerful transmitters for radar. Especially a space based asteroid radar system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't Super advanced civilisations have colonies on other planets , other stars ? In which case they would want to comunicate with them right...So they would have powerful transmitters....Anyway As far as I know you still need very powerful transmitters for radar .
Especially a space based asteroid radar system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't Super advanced civilisations have colonies on other planets, other stars?In which case they would want to comunicate with them right...So they would have powerful transmitters....Anyway As far as I know you still need very powerful transmitters for radar.
Especially a space based asteroid radar system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30968404</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1264877880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Melting the crust would probably not be a good idea if they want to live here due to the ideal living environment
</p><p>
Biological attacks against humans, or attacks against human technology are more likely.
</p><p>
If humans are at their current level of development...   I imagine Phase 1  would involve
creating a large number of EMPs  in earth's upper atmosphere, to disable electronics and military intelligence on the ground, radar, etc.
</p><p>
Phase 2  would involve capturing some humans for 'research' purposes...  analyzing them, and eventually developing a  "humanicide",  or rather, a biological agent designed to attack just human DNA, and leave other less-hostile organisms intact,  probably something 1000x as potent and deadly to humans as any bio weapon we currently know about.
</p><p>
Or they could make a more 'humane' version and only cause massive sterilization, disperse it throughout the planet.    Then they return in ~100 years, to take ownership of the planet.
</p><p>
Phase 3  would be colonization.
</p><p>
All colonists would have plenty of the potent lethal version of the weapon, in the form of hand sprays and foggers.
</p><p>
So that one small squirt from a hand spray would kill any humans within about 10 miles of the release.
Or such that a fogger release would obliterate all humans within 200 miles  radius  within 2 hours.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Melting the crust would probably not be a good idea if they want to live here due to the ideal living environment Biological attacks against humans , or attacks against human technology are more likely .
If humans are at their current level of development... I imagine Phase 1 would involve creating a large number of EMPs in earth 's upper atmosphere , to disable electronics and military intelligence on the ground , radar , etc .
Phase 2 would involve capturing some humans for 'research ' purposes... analyzing them , and eventually developing a " humanicide " , or rather , a biological agent designed to attack just human DNA , and leave other less-hostile organisms intact , probably something 1000x as potent and deadly to humans as any bio weapon we currently know about .
Or they could make a more 'humane ' version and only cause massive sterilization , disperse it throughout the planet .
Then they return in ~ 100 years , to take ownership of the planet .
Phase 3 would be colonization .
All colonists would have plenty of the potent lethal version of the weapon , in the form of hand sprays and foggers .
So that one small squirt from a hand spray would kill any humans within about 10 miles of the release .
Or such that a fogger release would obliterate all humans within 200 miles radius within 2 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Melting the crust would probably not be a good idea if they want to live here due to the ideal living environment

Biological attacks against humans, or attacks against human technology are more likely.
If humans are at their current level of development...   I imagine Phase 1  would involve
creating a large number of EMPs  in earth's upper atmosphere, to disable electronics and military intelligence on the ground, radar, etc.
Phase 2  would involve capturing some humans for 'research' purposes...  analyzing them, and eventually developing a  "humanicide",  or rather, a biological agent designed to attack just human DNA, and leave other less-hostile organisms intact,  probably something 1000x as potent and deadly to humans as any bio weapon we currently know about.
Or they could make a more 'humane' version and only cause massive sterilization, disperse it throughout the planet.
Then they return in ~100 years, to take ownership of the planet.
Phase 3  would be colonization.
All colonists would have plenty of the potent lethal version of the weapon, in the form of hand sprays and foggers.
So that one small squirt from a hand spray would kill any humans within about 10 miles of the release.
Or such that a fogger release would obliterate all humans within 200 miles  radius  within 2 hours.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30967472</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264864140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space, so if you can't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.</p></div><p>Do you know about inverse-square laws? Also the assumption of a spherical output is a bit flawed too.</p><p>At astronomical ranges, 99\% of signals from the Earth are going to be indistinguishable from background noise.</p><p>Either that or aliens are trying to crack my WPA.</p><p>Scroogle Edgar Mitchell...an astronaut who says we have already been visited numerous times.....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space , so if you ca n't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.Do you know about inverse-square laws ?
Also the assumption of a spherical output is a bit flawed too.At astronomical ranges , 99 \ % of signals from the Earth are going to be indistinguishable from background noise.Either that or aliens are trying to crack my WPA.Scroogle Edgar Mitchell...an astronaut who says we have already been visited numerous times.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space, so if you can't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.Do you know about inverse-square laws?
Also the assumption of a spherical output is a bit flawed too.At astronomical ranges, 99\% of signals from the Earth are going to be indistinguishable from background noise.Either that or aliens are trying to crack my WPA.Scroogle Edgar Mitchell...an astronaut who says we have already been visited numerous times.....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30970548</id>
	<title>Wrong Question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264955340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> What we need to be worrying is whether the alien civilizations we want to make contact with are emitting clear signals to us. Because from my line of reasoning, any alien species that are going to respond to us will already be emitting signals of their own before they receive our signal, and their probe signal will obviously reach Earth earlier than their reply. So, we ought to factor this into our ET search as well. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What we need to be worrying is whether the alien civilizations we want to make contact with are emitting clear signals to us .
Because from my line of reasoning , any alien species that are going to respond to us will already be emitting signals of their own before they receive our signal , and their probe signal will obviously reach Earth earlier than their reply .
So , we ought to factor this into our ET search as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What we need to be worrying is whether the alien civilizations we want to make contact with are emitting clear signals to us.
Because from my line of reasoning, any alien species that are going to respond to us will already be emitting signals of their own before they receive our signal, and their probe signal will obviously reach Earth earlier than their reply.
So, we ought to factor this into our ET search as well. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963056</id>
	<title>So what you're saying is that...</title>
	<author>lanes</author>
	<datestamp>1264873380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...in space, no one can hear you scream?</htmltext>
<tokenext>...in space , no one can hear you scream ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...in space, no one can hear you scream?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962052</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>mcrbids</author>
	<datestamp>1264865760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Radio waves spread in accordance with the inverse square law. For every doubling in distance traveled, they become 1/4 as strong. It may well be that the *practical* limit for detecting our own tv/radio signals is somewhere near Alpha Centauri, but that's a limit imposed by our own equipment. The signal propogates forever, or at least until it's stopped by another planet/star/comet/dust/whatever. And space is mighty vast and mighty empty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Radio waves spread in accordance with the inverse square law .
For every doubling in distance traveled , they become 1/4 as strong .
It may well be that the * practical * limit for detecting our own tv/radio signals is somewhere near Alpha Centauri , but that 's a limit imposed by our own equipment .
The signal propogates forever , or at least until it 's stopped by another planet/star/comet/dust/whatever .
And space is mighty vast and mighty empty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Radio waves spread in accordance with the inverse square law.
For every doubling in distance traveled, they become 1/4 as strong.
It may well be that the *practical* limit for detecting our own tv/radio signals is somewhere near Alpha Centauri, but that's a limit imposed by our own equipment.
The signal propogates forever, or at least until it's stopped by another planet/star/comet/dust/whatever.
And space is mighty vast and mighty empty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960290</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264884660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, that was a very scary proposition, back in the 19th century when that was an original idea.

Its the fucking 21st century mother fucka! Recognize!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , that was a very scary proposition , back in the 19th century when that was an original idea .
Its the fucking 21st century mother fucka !
Recognize !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, that was a very scary proposition, back in the 19th century when that was an original idea.
Its the fucking 21st century mother fucka!
Recognize!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960462</id>
	<title>could be sexual reasons</title>
	<author>r00t</author>
	<datestamp>1264843320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're an alien dude who wants to score with the alien chicks, you might just impress them by collecting humans. You could embed a human in a chunk of pure carbon-12 diamond, mount that in an iridium ring, and slip it onto her tentacle. She might have thousands of tentacles.</p><p>Maybe you collect humans to sell as an aphrodesiac. You puts the heads on top of a snack, kind of like sea urchin eggs on sushi.</p><p>Maybe you lay eggs in the humans. Ever see that movie with the pods? The aliens take over human bodies. An infected human passionately embraces an uninfected human, and then the alien penis-thing (an ovipositer maybe?) bursts out of the infected person's forehead and stabs right into the uninfected person's forehead.</p><p>Maybe you even mate with the humans. You keep them in your flying saucer and rape them with **all** your tentacles in every oriface. When the alien babies are ready to be born, the humans explode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're an alien dude who wants to score with the alien chicks , you might just impress them by collecting humans .
You could embed a human in a chunk of pure carbon-12 diamond , mount that in an iridium ring , and slip it onto her tentacle .
She might have thousands of tentacles.Maybe you collect humans to sell as an aphrodesiac .
You puts the heads on top of a snack , kind of like sea urchin eggs on sushi.Maybe you lay eggs in the humans .
Ever see that movie with the pods ?
The aliens take over human bodies .
An infected human passionately embraces an uninfected human , and then the alien penis-thing ( an ovipositer maybe ?
) bursts out of the infected person 's forehead and stabs right into the uninfected person 's forehead.Maybe you even mate with the humans .
You keep them in your flying saucer and rape them with * * all * * your tentacles in every oriface .
When the alien babies are ready to be born , the humans explode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're an alien dude who wants to score with the alien chicks, you might just impress them by collecting humans.
You could embed a human in a chunk of pure carbon-12 diamond, mount that in an iridium ring, and slip it onto her tentacle.
She might have thousands of tentacles.Maybe you collect humans to sell as an aphrodesiac.
You puts the heads on top of a snack, kind of like sea urchin eggs on sushi.Maybe you lay eggs in the humans.
Ever see that movie with the pods?
The aliens take over human bodies.
An infected human passionately embraces an uninfected human, and then the alien penis-thing (an ovipositer maybe?
) bursts out of the infected person's forehead and stabs right into the uninfected person's forehead.Maybe you even mate with the humans.
You keep them in your flying saucer and rape them with **all** your tentacles in every oriface.
When the alien babies are ready to be born, the humans explode.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30986686</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>HTH NE1</author>
	<datestamp>1265017980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</p></div><p>"This planet is so noisy. You're getting noticed. More and more. You'd better get used to it." -- The Doctor</p><p>Or rather, this planet <em>has been</em> so noisy, and now that we're switching to shorter-range communications, we're ceasing to be a navigation beacon. And now <em>that's</em> getting us noticed.</p><p>We'll be invaded for bureaucratic reasons.</p><p>"Those who cannot hear an angry shout may strain to hear a whisper." -- Riker Odan</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons .
" This planet is so noisy .
You 're getting noticed .
More and more .
You 'd better get used to it .
" -- The DoctorOr rather , this planet has been so noisy , and now that we 're switching to shorter-range communications , we 're ceasing to be a navigation beacon .
And now that 's getting us noticed.We 'll be invaded for bureaucratic reasons .
" Those who can not hear an angry shout may strain to hear a whisper .
" -- Riker Odan</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.
"This planet is so noisy.
You're getting noticed.
More and more.
You'd better get used to it.
" -- The DoctorOr rather, this planet has been so noisy, and now that we're switching to shorter-range communications, we're ceasing to be a navigation beacon.
And now that's getting us noticed.We'll be invaded for bureaucratic reasons.
"Those who cannot hear an angry shout may strain to hear a whisper.
" -- Riker Odan
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964128</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>cyberthanasis12</author>
	<datestamp>1264879380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Please correct me if I am wrong, but It was my understanding that we look for signals that the aliens purposely transmit to make their existence known. All that is needed, is a slightly more advanced civilization than us (and a richer one too).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Please correct me if I am wrong , but It was my understanding that we look for signals that the aliens purposely transmit to make their existence known .
All that is needed , is a slightly more advanced civilization than us ( and a richer one too ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please correct me if I am wrong, but It was my understanding that we look for signals that the aliens purposely transmit to make their existence known.
All that is needed, is a slightly more advanced civilization than us (and a richer one too).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960338</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>BryanL</author>
	<datestamp>1264885020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but the assumption was that civilizations stopped broadcasting into space because they ceased to exist. Now we can think, maybe there are civilizations out there that are extant, but past the point of radio broadcasts. This is good news if we hope that intelligent life is still out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but the assumption was that civilizations stopped broadcasting into space because they ceased to exist .
Now we can think , maybe there are civilizations out there that are extant , but past the point of radio broadcasts .
This is good news if we hope that intelligent life is still out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but the assumption was that civilizations stopped broadcasting into space because they ceased to exist.
Now we can think, maybe there are civilizations out there that are extant, but past the point of radio broadcasts.
This is good news if we hope that intelligent life is still out there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960486</id>
	<title>Radio, that's so last millenium...</title>
	<author>meerling</author>
	<datestamp>1264843620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To think that aliens will be using radio is like Geronimo thinking the people in Europe used smoke signals.<br><br>Wish I could tell you what they are using, but as we haven't invented or noticed it yet, your guess is as good as mine.<br>(For my guess I'll say they're using Quantum Filament Transmission Sequencers. Whatever that is.)<br><br>I don't begrudge the idea of searching for alien radio signals, we might luck out and find one and actually recognize it for what it is, but I'm not holding my breath.<br>(Besides, foreign art film reruns are bad enough, do you really want to see alien ones?)</htmltext>
<tokenext>To think that aliens will be using radio is like Geronimo thinking the people in Europe used smoke signals.Wish I could tell you what they are using , but as we have n't invented or noticed it yet , your guess is as good as mine .
( For my guess I 'll say they 're using Quantum Filament Transmission Sequencers .
Whatever that is .
) I do n't begrudge the idea of searching for alien radio signals , we might luck out and find one and actually recognize it for what it is , but I 'm not holding my breath .
( Besides , foreign art film reruns are bad enough , do you really want to see alien ones ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To think that aliens will be using radio is like Geronimo thinking the people in Europe used smoke signals.Wish I could tell you what they are using, but as we haven't invented or noticed it yet, your guess is as good as mine.
(For my guess I'll say they're using Quantum Filament Transmission Sequencers.
Whatever that is.
)I don't begrudge the idea of searching for alien radio signals, we might luck out and find one and actually recognize it for what it is, but I'm not holding my breath.
(Besides, foreign art film reruns are bad enough, do you really want to see alien ones?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960392</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Tibia1</author>
	<datestamp>1264842360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why are so worried about finding aliens right now? Its like a child trying to throw a paper plane to the top of a mountain. We need better technology and it will be here soon. Best not worry where we're pointing our signals at the moment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are so worried about finding aliens right now ?
Its like a child trying to throw a paper plane to the top of a mountain .
We need better technology and it will be here soon .
Best not worry where we 're pointing our signals at the moment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are so worried about finding aliens right now?
Its like a child trying to throw a paper plane to the top of a mountain.
We need better technology and it will be here soon.
Best not worry where we're pointing our signals at the moment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30965174</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264843740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Qubits can be passed via entanglement, so you're wrong. Mod this guy down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Qubits can be passed via entanglement , so you 're wrong .
Mod this guy down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Qubits can be passed via entanglement, so you're wrong.
Mod this guy down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961832</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962930</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>AmiMoJo</author>
	<datestamp>1264872540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Economics may not come into it. An attack could be just a form of self defence.</p><p>There was a lot of debate about this in the 80s. People realised that because relativistic weapons were likely to be available to any advanced civilisation (including us in another 50-100 years) there is a great danger that another race could send one at us and there would be no way of stopping it or escaping it.</p><p>So when you detect an alien civilisation's radio waves there is a fair chance they already have the capability to destroy you remotely. You might even be quite frightened of them because the sounds and images you receive show them killing each other by the millions and developing weapons of mass destruction, as well as expanding out into space. You know that they must know the same things about relativistic weapons.</p><p>You have three options. Carry on as normal and hope they grow out of their violent ways, try to hide by limiting EM/neutrino/light radiation from your civilisation or send some relativistic bombs their way and hope they arrive before they get the chance to send some back at you. Actually you might be able to combine the last two.</p><p>Maybe next time some snack company wants to broadcast an advert into space we should think twice about allowing them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Economics may not come into it .
An attack could be just a form of self defence.There was a lot of debate about this in the 80s .
People realised that because relativistic weapons were likely to be available to any advanced civilisation ( including us in another 50-100 years ) there is a great danger that another race could send one at us and there would be no way of stopping it or escaping it.So when you detect an alien civilisation 's radio waves there is a fair chance they already have the capability to destroy you remotely .
You might even be quite frightened of them because the sounds and images you receive show them killing each other by the millions and developing weapons of mass destruction , as well as expanding out into space .
You know that they must know the same things about relativistic weapons.You have three options .
Carry on as normal and hope they grow out of their violent ways , try to hide by limiting EM/neutrino/light radiation from your civilisation or send some relativistic bombs their way and hope they arrive before they get the chance to send some back at you .
Actually you might be able to combine the last two.Maybe next time some snack company wants to broadcast an advert into space we should think twice about allowing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Economics may not come into it.
An attack could be just a form of self defence.There was a lot of debate about this in the 80s.
People realised that because relativistic weapons were likely to be available to any advanced civilisation (including us in another 50-100 years) there is a great danger that another race could send one at us and there would be no way of stopping it or escaping it.So when you detect an alien civilisation's radio waves there is a fair chance they already have the capability to destroy you remotely.
You might even be quite frightened of them because the sounds and images you receive show them killing each other by the millions and developing weapons of mass destruction, as well as expanding out into space.
You know that they must know the same things about relativistic weapons.You have three options.
Carry on as normal and hope they grow out of their violent ways, try to hide by limiting EM/neutrino/light radiation from your civilisation or send some relativistic bombs their way and hope they arrive before they get the chance to send some back at you.
Actually you might be able to combine the last two.Maybe next time some snack company wants to broadcast an advert into space we should think twice about allowing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960232</id>
	<title>so what</title>
	<author>Punto</author>
	<datestamp>1264883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the closest aliens are at least thousands of light years away, they haven't "missed" our radio signals, they still haven't heard them yet. And they'll have like 100 years of signals to figure us out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the closest aliens are at least thousands of light years away , they have n't " missed " our radio signals , they still have n't heard them yet .
And they 'll have like 100 years of signals to figure us out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the closest aliens are at least thousands of light years away, they haven't "missed" our radio signals, they still haven't heard them yet.
And they'll have like 100 years of signals to figure us out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</id>
	<title>That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264843740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason.  Much SETI effort was focused on looking for "carriers", big constant-frequency RF sources.  Broadcast AM, FM, and analog TV (which was AM video, FM audio) have strong carriers, but that was hugely inefficient.  About 80\% of an analog TV station's power output wasn't conveying any information other than "We're here".  As receivers improved, new RF technologies used weaker carriers, then suppressed carriers, and finally, with spread spectrum, dropped the whole concept of carriers.  Many modern RF signals appear to be noise unless you understand the encoding.  (The same thing happened to modems decades ago; at 300 baud, you heard tones; at 9600 baud and up, it sounded like white noise.)
</p><p>
I once pointed out to a speaker at Stanford promoting some SETI scheme that they couldn't detect any emission that the FCC would now license for a new application.  He admitted that was true.  For our civilization, there was less than a century of high-powered carriers.  That's a narrow window to hit for SETI purposes.
</p><p>
Arguably, though, any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up.  Although carriers are going away, all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information.  The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data, but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason .
Much SETI effort was focused on looking for " carriers " , big constant-frequency RF sources .
Broadcast AM , FM , and analog TV ( which was AM video , FM audio ) have strong carriers , but that was hugely inefficient .
About 80 \ % of an analog TV station 's power output was n't conveying any information other than " We 're here " .
As receivers improved , new RF technologies used weaker carriers , then suppressed carriers , and finally , with spread spectrum , dropped the whole concept of carriers .
Many modern RF signals appear to be noise unless you understand the encoding .
( The same thing happened to modems decades ago ; at 300 baud , you heard tones ; at 9600 baud and up , it sounded like white noise .
) I once pointed out to a speaker at Stanford promoting some SETI scheme that they could n't detect any emission that the FCC would now license for a new application .
He admitted that was true .
For our civilization , there was less than a century of high-powered carriers .
That 's a narrow window to hit for SETI purposes .
Arguably , though , any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up .
Although carriers are going away , all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information .
The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data , but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason.
Much SETI effort was focused on looking for "carriers", big constant-frequency RF sources.
Broadcast AM, FM, and analog TV (which was AM video, FM audio) have strong carriers, but that was hugely inefficient.
About 80\% of an analog TV station's power output wasn't conveying any information other than "We're here".
As receivers improved, new RF technologies used weaker carriers, then suppressed carriers, and finally, with spread spectrum, dropped the whole concept of carriers.
Many modern RF signals appear to be noise unless you understand the encoding.
(The same thing happened to modems decades ago; at 300 baud, you heard tones; at 9600 baud and up, it sounded like white noise.
)

I once pointed out to a speaker at Stanford promoting some SETI scheme that they couldn't detect any emission that the FCC would now license for a new application.
He admitted that was true.
For our civilization, there was less than a century of high-powered carriers.
That's a narrow window to hit for SETI purposes.
Arguably, though, any sufficiently advanced civilization will monitor all RF passing through their solar system and will be able to detect anything which has a pattern which can be synched up.
Although carriers are going away, all signals between distant points need some form of synchronization information.
The synch information may be a tiny fraction of the transmitted data, but there has to be something upon which the receiver can lock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</id>
	<title>Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Da Cheez</author>
	<datestamp>1264883460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>So if a sufficiently advanced civilization (like ours) eventually develops radio technology that doesn't get far beyond their own planet, could this severely limit how much we would detect from other planets in the way of radio signals?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if a sufficiently advanced civilization ( like ours ) eventually develops radio technology that does n't get far beyond their own planet , could this severely limit how much we would detect from other planets in the way of radio signals ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if a sufficiently advanced civilization (like ours) eventually develops radio technology that doesn't get far beyond their own planet, could this severely limit how much we would detect from other planets in the way of radio signals?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962710</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>bkeahl</author>
	<datestamp>1264871040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Alpha Cenrauri is about 4-1/2 light years away.  Electromagnetic energy would get there in 4-1/2 years.  As a result, they've long since lost interest in I Love Lucy (if anyone is there and listening). There are about 50 stars within 15 light years.

We can't uncap that bottle, so we'll have a stream of broadcast television and radio signals continuing on the journey, lasting for decades.  The fact we stop doesn't mean we're suddenly invisible.  We've left some tracks in the sand on a calm beach.

I'm pretty confident we don't have an invasion fleet coming at this point in the game, but if they are, I bet they think we taste like chicken.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Alpha Cenrauri is about 4-1/2 light years away .
Electromagnetic energy would get there in 4-1/2 years .
As a result , they 've long since lost interest in I Love Lucy ( if anyone is there and listening ) .
There are about 50 stars within 15 light years .
We ca n't uncap that bottle , so we 'll have a stream of broadcast television and radio signals continuing on the journey , lasting for decades .
The fact we stop does n't mean we 're suddenly invisible .
We 've left some tracks in the sand on a calm beach .
I 'm pretty confident we do n't have an invasion fleet coming at this point in the game , but if they are , I bet they think we taste like chicken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alpha Cenrauri is about 4-1/2 light years away.
Electromagnetic energy would get there in 4-1/2 years.
As a result, they've long since lost interest in I Love Lucy (if anyone is there and listening).
There are about 50 stars within 15 light years.
We can't uncap that bottle, so we'll have a stream of broadcast television and radio signals continuing on the journey, lasting for decades.
The fact we stop doesn't mean we're suddenly invisible.
We've left some tracks in the sand on a calm beach.
I'm pretty confident we don't have an invasion fleet coming at this point in the game, but if they are, I bet they think we taste like chicken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960850</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>dragisha</author>
	<datestamp>1264849860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they invade it can be preemption. Seeing our broadcasts they will learn nothing flattering about us. They can come just to make sure we will not come first. Or they can send some kind of planet/sun killer. It would be cheaper alternative.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they invade it can be preemption .
Seeing our broadcasts they will learn nothing flattering about us .
They can come just to make sure we will not come first .
Or they can send some kind of planet/sun killer .
It would be cheaper alternative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they invade it can be preemption.
Seeing our broadcasts they will learn nothing flattering about us.
They can come just to make sure we will not come first.
Or they can send some kind of planet/sun killer.
It would be cheaper alternative.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960888</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption in space</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1264850280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And once we determined the contents of the packets, it would probably drive us half crazy trying to figure out the "message".  Haha.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And once we determined the contents of the packets , it would probably drive us half crazy trying to figure out the " message " .
Haha .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And once we determined the contents of the packets, it would probably drive us half crazy trying to figure out the "message".
Haha.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962748</id>
	<title>we need to use sub space like the SGU uses to send</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1264871400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we need to use sub space like the SGU uses to send data over space.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we need to use sub space like the SGU uses to send data over space .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we need to use sub space like the SGU uses to send data over space.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960726</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>pydev</author>
	<datestamp>1264848180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar system</i></p><p>Value to whom?  Investors get no ROI.</p><p><i>and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.</i></p><p>Sufficiently advanced civilizations may not care.  Remember that even at the individual level, many people choose not to procreate and don't fear death.  An advanced civilization may realize that a good few million years on their own planet, maybe even without a lot of technology, is valuable enough in its own right.</p><p><i>the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any...</i></p><p>That's not the answer to the Fermi Paradox.  The Fermi Paradox is the question of why there aren't any.  I think you are implying that they haven't evolved, but that is statistically nearly impossible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar systemValue to whom ?
Investors get no ROI.and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.Sufficiently advanced civilizations may not care .
Remember that even at the individual level , many people choose not to procreate and do n't fear death .
An advanced civilization may realize that a good few million years on their own planet , maybe even without a lot of technology , is valuable enough in its own right.the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple : there are n't any...That 's not the answer to the Fermi Paradox .
The Fermi Paradox is the question of why there are n't any .
I think you are implying that they have n't evolved , but that is statistically nearly impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cost of an interstellar colonisation flight would be small compared to the value of another solar systemValue to whom?
Investors get no ROI.and the cost of not expanding to other solar systems would be the death of our species.Sufficiently advanced civilizations may not care.
Remember that even at the individual level, many people choose not to procreate and don't fear death.
An advanced civilization may realize that a good few million years on their own planet, maybe even without a lot of technology, is valuable enough in its own right.the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any...That's not the answer to the Fermi Paradox.
The Fermi Paradox is the question of why there aren't any.
I think you are implying that they haven't evolved, but that is statistically nearly impossible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960712</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>pydev</author>
	<datestamp>1264847940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</i></p><p>You're thinking "Mars Attacks".  But an invasion might consist of a bit of nanotechnology together with some retroviruses and parasites.  That's possibly only a gram of payload.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons.You 're thinking " Mars Attacks " .
But an invasion might consist of a bit of nanotechnology together with some retroviruses and parasites .
That 's possibly only a gram of payload .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.You're thinking "Mars Attacks".
But an invasion might consist of a bit of nanotechnology together with some retroviruses and parasites.
That's possibly only a gram of payload.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</id>
	<title>Not news</title>
	<author>l2718</author>
	<datestamp>1264883460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This issue was already known to Drake when he formulated his famous equation -- a key parameter is the time window during which a civilisation is broadcasting radio signals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This issue was already known to Drake when he formulated his famous equation -- a key parameter is the time window during which a civilisation is broadcasting radio signals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This issue was already known to Drake when he formulated his famous equation -- a key parameter is the time window during which a civilisation is broadcasting radio signals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960272</id>
	<title>More to the point</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1264884420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do we WANT to be detected? Oh it would be wonderful if we could communicate with intelligent life somewhere other than earth (I am assuming there is intelligence here). But what if the species we contact are not peaceful? What if they're out looking for worlds to enslave? There certainly would be an advantage in staying quiet and being the first to "discover" a new civilization without giving up our own presence. That way we could study these new beings before deciding whether to risk contact or not.</p><p>Likewise, the same logic can be applied to an alien species. Why would they trust us? Why would they carelessly beam their presence out into space, not knowing who was going to listen in? It is certain, given our past history (you know, that part about strong humans usually ending up wiping out weaker ones through conquest), that we ourselves aren't exactly trust-worthy. Maybe they have heard us, and we failed the test, and we will never meet our neighbors. That is one possibility the "Drake Equation" fails to account for. Maybe we will be permanently assigned to the universe's "time out" box, because of our bad behavior - and we'll never know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do we WANT to be detected ?
Oh it would be wonderful if we could communicate with intelligent life somewhere other than earth ( I am assuming there is intelligence here ) .
But what if the species we contact are not peaceful ?
What if they 're out looking for worlds to enslave ?
There certainly would be an advantage in staying quiet and being the first to " discover " a new civilization without giving up our own presence .
That way we could study these new beings before deciding whether to risk contact or not.Likewise , the same logic can be applied to an alien species .
Why would they trust us ?
Why would they carelessly beam their presence out into space , not knowing who was going to listen in ?
It is certain , given our past history ( you know , that part about strong humans usually ending up wiping out weaker ones through conquest ) , that we ourselves are n't exactly trust-worthy .
Maybe they have heard us , and we failed the test , and we will never meet our neighbors .
That is one possibility the " Drake Equation " fails to account for .
Maybe we will be permanently assigned to the universe 's " time out " box , because of our bad behavior - and we 'll never know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do we WANT to be detected?
Oh it would be wonderful if we could communicate with intelligent life somewhere other than earth (I am assuming there is intelligence here).
But what if the species we contact are not peaceful?
What if they're out looking for worlds to enslave?
There certainly would be an advantage in staying quiet and being the first to "discover" a new civilization without giving up our own presence.
That way we could study these new beings before deciding whether to risk contact or not.Likewise, the same logic can be applied to an alien species.
Why would they trust us?
Why would they carelessly beam their presence out into space, not knowing who was going to listen in?
It is certain, given our past history (you know, that part about strong humans usually ending up wiping out weaker ones through conquest), that we ourselves aren't exactly trust-worthy.
Maybe they have heard us, and we failed the test, and we will never meet our neighbors.
That is one possibility the "Drake Equation" fails to account for.
Maybe we will be permanently assigned to the universe's "time out" box, because of our bad behavior - and we'll never know.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961832</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>jibjibjib</author>
	<datestamp>1264863780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why do people keep suggesting entanglement as a future communication technology? It doesn't transmit any information. (And if you say "But what if it does and we don't know yet?" then you're not talking about entanglement, you're talking about some random undiscovered physics and using the wrong word for it.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do people keep suggesting entanglement as a future communication technology ?
It does n't transmit any information .
( And if you say " But what if it does and we do n't know yet ?
" then you 're not talking about entanglement , you 're talking about some random undiscovered physics and using the wrong word for it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do people keep suggesting entanglement as a future communication technology?
It doesn't transmit any information.
(And if you say "But what if it does and we don't know yet?
" then you're not talking about entanglement, you're talking about some random undiscovered physics and using the wrong word for it.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960296</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264884660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any civilization advanced enough to send an invasion force would most likely have the technology to resolve the contents of the earths atmosphere from great distances.  Being scared of invasion does not buy much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any civilization advanced enough to send an invasion force would most likely have the technology to resolve the contents of the earths atmosphere from great distances .
Being scared of invasion does not buy much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any civilization advanced enough to send an invasion force would most likely have the technology to resolve the contents of the earths atmosphere from great distances.
Being scared of invasion does not buy much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963844</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>painandgreed</author>
	<datestamp>1264877820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads. Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth. And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.</i> </p><p> <i>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</i> </p><p>I'm sure the Native Americans could have made a similar arguement about the ridiculousness of and invasion fleet rowing their canoes across the Atlantic to attack them. That's the thing about future technology, you really aren't sure what it is capable of.  We really don't know much about the universe we live in. What we normally think of as the universe in matter and energy is less than 5\% of what's there. The rest we can barely even detect let alone determine what it is and what physics it operates under. For even all our talk about wormholes, hyperspace, Alcubierre drives, we're probably really just a bunch of savages trying to determine how lash our canoes together to make a jumbojet when talking about future tech. The only real thing that our current physics tells us is that they cannot accelerate through the speed of light, and that the minimum energy to reach here is the difference in potential energies between their starting and ending locations. If they're coming from the galactic rim towards the core, it could be a free ride if they do develop some sort of teleportation. </p><p>As to why they might decide to invade us. Who knows? They're alien. Their reasoning and decision making process might not even make sense to us. A planet with an atmosphere in a nice liquid water zone around a star may be enough of a reason. If compatible, it certainly make for a cheap living space. Much cheaper than trying to build enough space ships to house as many people as could live on a planet. There are also cultural, religious, and aesthetic reason they might decide to invade. Hell, they might just want to open up markets and engage us as equal trade partners. That alone would probably cause enough change to be equivilant to invading.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads .
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device , the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth .
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device , then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly , without leaving their home .
So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons .
I 'm sure the Native Americans could have made a similar arguement about the ridiculousness of and invasion fleet rowing their canoes across the Atlantic to attack them .
That 's the thing about future technology , you really are n't sure what it is capable of .
We really do n't know much about the universe we live in .
What we normally think of as the universe in matter and energy is less than 5 \ % of what 's there .
The rest we can barely even detect let alone determine what it is and what physics it operates under .
For even all our talk about wormholes , hyperspace , Alcubierre drives , we 're probably really just a bunch of savages trying to determine how lash our canoes together to make a jumbojet when talking about future tech .
The only real thing that our current physics tells us is that they can not accelerate through the speed of light , and that the minimum energy to reach here is the difference in potential energies between their starting and ending locations .
If they 're coming from the galactic rim towards the core , it could be a free ride if they do develop some sort of teleportation .
As to why they might decide to invade us .
Who knows ?
They 're alien .
Their reasoning and decision making process might not even make sense to us .
A planet with an atmosphere in a nice liquid water zone around a star may be enough of a reason .
If compatible , it certainly make for a cheap living space .
Much cheaper than trying to build enough space ships to house as many people as could live on a planet .
There are also cultural , religious , and aesthetic reason they might decide to invade .
Hell , they might just want to open up markets and engage us as equal trade partners .
That alone would probably cause enough change to be equivilant to invading .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Not if they have any economic sense in their heads.
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.
So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.
I'm sure the Native Americans could have made a similar arguement about the ridiculousness of and invasion fleet rowing their canoes across the Atlantic to attack them.
That's the thing about future technology, you really aren't sure what it is capable of.
We really don't know much about the universe we live in.
What we normally think of as the universe in matter and energy is less than 5\% of what's there.
The rest we can barely even detect let alone determine what it is and what physics it operates under.
For even all our talk about wormholes, hyperspace, Alcubierre drives, we're probably really just a bunch of savages trying to determine how lash our canoes together to make a jumbojet when talking about future tech.
The only real thing that our current physics tells us is that they cannot accelerate through the speed of light, and that the minimum energy to reach here is the difference in potential energies between their starting and ending locations.
If they're coming from the galactic rim towards the core, it could be a free ride if they do develop some sort of teleportation.
As to why they might decide to invade us.
Who knows?
They're alien.
Their reasoning and decision making process might not even make sense to us.
A planet with an atmosphere in a nice liquid water zone around a star may be enough of a reason.
If compatible, it certainly make for a cheap living space.
Much cheaper than trying to build enough space ships to house as many people as could live on a planet.
There are also cultural, religious, and aesthetic reason they might decide to invade.
Hell, they might just want to open up markets and engage us as equal trade partners.
That alone would probably cause enough change to be equivilant to invading.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963170</id>
	<title>I'd rather find them first anyways.</title>
	<author>dreamchaser</author>
	<datestamp>1264874160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd rather we become the ones who find other intelligent life and eat/enslave/probe/hybridize them, rather than the reverse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd rather we become the ones who find other intelligent life and eat/enslave/probe/hybridize them , rather than the reverse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd rather we become the ones who find other intelligent life and eat/enslave/probe/hybridize them, rather than the reverse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960350</id>
	<title>We can only hope it's Vulcans that find us</title>
	<author>mykos</author>
	<datestamp>1264885080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would pretty much suck if it were Vogons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would pretty much suck if it were Vogons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would pretty much suck if it were Vogons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962450</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264868940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But nobody ever considers the possibility we might be the first advanced civilization, or the most advanced one still existing. It could be a long shot, but somebody has to be first.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But nobody ever considers the possibility we might be the first advanced civilization , or the most advanced one still existing .
It could be a long shot , but somebody has to be first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But nobody ever considers the possibility we might be the first advanced civilization, or the most advanced one still existing.
It could be a long shot, but somebody has to be first.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964922</id>
	<title>It's like the saying goes</title>
	<author>SaidinUnleashed</author>
	<datestamp>1264842000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In space, no one can hear your stream!</htmltext>
<tokenext>In space , no one can hear your stream !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In space, no one can hear your stream!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30982090</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1265043600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe you just won the sarcasm award.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe you just won the sarcasm award .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe you just won the sarcasm award.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30967878</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264869780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It takes radio signals about three years to reach Alpha Centauri.</p><p>The signals that have the capability to cross interstellar space have been sent out for decades, so our existence has been clear for many years now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It takes radio signals about three years to reach Alpha Centauri.The signals that have the capability to cross interstellar space have been sent out for decades , so our existence has been clear for many years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It takes radio signals about three years to reach Alpha Centauri.The signals that have the capability to cross interstellar space have been sent out for decades, so our existence has been clear for many years now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962314</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>SirLurksAlot</author>
	<datestamp>1264867860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We gotta consider the possibility, that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time, and with the sophistication to pinpoint us....</p><p>Might have the technology and desire to invade earth.</p><p>E.g. Consider earth itself... fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive overpopulation, lack of resources, land, severe overcrowding. </p><p>Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.</p></div> </blockquote><p>You're making the awfully large assumption that Earth would be considered habitable for another species. It is just as likely that an nitrogen and oxygen rich atmosphere would be poisonous or even acidic to them (more likely?) than breathable.  We also need to consider possible differences in mass and gravity, not to mention that any extraterrestrial that sets foot on Earth would have to contend with a diverse and aggressive ecosystem (I'm thinking bacteria and viruses that have lived here for millions of years).</p><p>As far as the Earth having massive resources, what could we possibly have that couldn't be obtained more easily from one of the (thousands/millions) of other mostly uninhabited other planets in the galaxy?  Further, why go to the possibly enormous effort of coming to a world which is already inhabited in the first place (assuming the reason is not for the sake of anthropology or scientific curiosity), especially considering that if they are that advanced they could find other suitable worlds whose indigenous species is less hostile (and lets face it, we ARE a rather hostile species, even if we aren't that technologically advanced).</p><p>No, I find it far more likely that if another species did contact us it would not out of aggression or need for resources, but for scientific purposes... or worse, a need to spread their particular religious beliefs to all non-believers.</p><p>Then again, the universe is pretty big place, and there could be any number of space-faring species that might be tempted by Earth.  Who knows.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We got ta consider the possibility , that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time , and with the sophistication to pinpoint us....Might have the technology and desire to invade earth.E.g .
Consider earth itself... fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive overpopulation , lack of resources , land , severe overcrowding .
Extreme desire for another habitable place to live .
You 're making the awfully large assumption that Earth would be considered habitable for another species .
It is just as likely that an nitrogen and oxygen rich atmosphere would be poisonous or even acidic to them ( more likely ?
) than breathable .
We also need to consider possible differences in mass and gravity , not to mention that any extraterrestrial that sets foot on Earth would have to contend with a diverse and aggressive ecosystem ( I 'm thinking bacteria and viruses that have lived here for millions of years ) .As far as the Earth having massive resources , what could we possibly have that could n't be obtained more easily from one of the ( thousands/millions ) of other mostly uninhabited other planets in the galaxy ?
Further , why go to the possibly enormous effort of coming to a world which is already inhabited in the first place ( assuming the reason is not for the sake of anthropology or scientific curiosity ) , especially considering that if they are that advanced they could find other suitable worlds whose indigenous species is less hostile ( and lets face it , we ARE a rather hostile species , even if we are n't that technologically advanced ) .No , I find it far more likely that if another species did contact us it would not out of aggression or need for resources , but for scientific purposes... or worse , a need to spread their particular religious beliefs to all non-believers.Then again , the universe is pretty big place , and there could be any number of space-faring species that might be tempted by Earth .
Who knows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We gotta consider the possibility, that any extraterrestrials close enough to hear our signals in any reasonable amount of time, and with the sophistication to pinpoint us....Might have the technology and desire to invade earth.E.g.
Consider earth itself... fast forward a few dozen generations...... massive overpopulation, lack of resources, land, severe overcrowding.
Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.
You're making the awfully large assumption that Earth would be considered habitable for another species.
It is just as likely that an nitrogen and oxygen rich atmosphere would be poisonous or even acidic to them (more likely?
) than breathable.
We also need to consider possible differences in mass and gravity, not to mention that any extraterrestrial that sets foot on Earth would have to contend with a diverse and aggressive ecosystem (I'm thinking bacteria and viruses that have lived here for millions of years).As far as the Earth having massive resources, what could we possibly have that couldn't be obtained more easily from one of the (thousands/millions) of other mostly uninhabited other planets in the galaxy?
Further, why go to the possibly enormous effort of coming to a world which is already inhabited in the first place (assuming the reason is not for the sake of anthropology or scientific curiosity), especially considering that if they are that advanced they could find other suitable worlds whose indigenous species is less hostile (and lets face it, we ARE a rather hostile species, even if we aren't that technologically advanced).No, I find it far more likely that if another species did contact us it would not out of aggression or need for resources, but for scientific purposes... or worse, a need to spread their particular religious beliefs to all non-believers.Then again, the universe is pretty big place, and there could be any number of space-faring species that might be tempted by Earth.
Who knows.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960768</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1264848840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pardon me but I find this all pretty irritation.
<br> <br>
The Fermi "Paradox" is nothing more than a conjecture, and there is nothing paradoxical about it. It doesn't even deserve to be famous. Others have wondered the same thing, before and since.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pardon me but I find this all pretty irritation .
The Fermi " Paradox " is nothing more than a conjecture , and there is nothing paradoxical about it .
It does n't even deserve to be famous .
Others have wondered the same thing , before and since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pardon me but I find this all pretty irritation.
The Fermi "Paradox" is nothing more than a conjecture, and there is nothing paradoxical about it.
It doesn't even deserve to be famous.
Others have wondered the same thing, before and since.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962762</id>
	<title>It's True Then ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264871460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In space, nobody can hear you scream</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In space , nobody can hear you scream</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In space, nobody can hear you scream</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960572</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>wylf</author>
	<datestamp>1264844940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yeah, i watched the terrible remake of "the day the earth stood still" as well.</p><p>

(c.f <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/quotes#qt0524739" title="imdb.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/quotes#qt0524739</a> [imdb.com])</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yeah , i watched the terrible remake of " the day the earth stood still " as well .
( c.f http : //www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/quotes # qt0524739 [ imdb.com ] )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yeah, i watched the terrible remake of "the day the earth stood still" as well.
(c.f http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/quotes#qt0524739 [imdb.com])</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30965768</id>
	<title>Predator</title>
	<author>Pseudonymus Bosch</author>
	<datestamp>1264848420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Predators come to Earth to hunt humans. Just like rich Westerners go to Africa to hunt game. They don't really need it but enjoy it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Predators come to Earth to hunt humans .
Just like rich Westerners go to Africa to hunt game .
They do n't really need it but enjoy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Predators come to Earth to hunt humans.
Just like rich Westerners go to Africa to hunt game.
They don't really need it but enjoy it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960560</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>dtml-try MyNick</author>
	<datestamp>1264844700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?<br>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when human civilizations who feel superior encounter ones they consider lesser?<br>The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds.<br>We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us (which led to the above in the first place) so they must be truculent and violent like we are, and they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy because that is what we would do. Let's just hope aliens don't find, or if they do, avoid us.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ? Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when human civilizations who feel superior encounter ones they consider lesser ? The Native Americans , the Mayans , the Incas , the Australian Aborigines , the tribes of South America , the natives of Pacific Islands , to name a few , all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first , second , and third kinds.We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us ( which led to the above in the first place ) so they must be truculent and violent like we are , and they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy because that is what we would do .
Let 's just hope aliens do n't find , or if they do , avoid us .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when human civilizations who feel superior encounter ones they consider lesser?The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds.We are so ignorant and arrogant that we expect other civilizations to think and act exactly like us (which led to the above in the first place) so they must be truculent and violent like we are, and they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy because that is what we would do.
Let's just hope aliens don't find, or if they do, avoid us.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963382</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>GreenTom</author>
	<datestamp>1264875420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>True enough, but a hostile species is not going to pull into orbit, send down a bunch of landing craft, and run around setting fires.  All they have to do is not slow down--a ship 10x the size of the space shuttle, moving at 0.99c, has about the same energy as the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs.  Over interstellar distances, it's a lot easier to sterilize a planet than it is to invade it. Hell, it might even be easier to melt the crust than it is to invade.</htmltext>
<tokenext>True enough , but a hostile species is not going to pull into orbit , send down a bunch of landing craft , and run around setting fires .
All they have to do is not slow down--a ship 10x the size of the space shuttle , moving at 0.99c , has about the same energy as the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs .
Over interstellar distances , it 's a lot easier to sterilize a planet than it is to invade it .
Hell , it might even be easier to melt the crust than it is to invade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True enough, but a hostile species is not going to pull into orbit, send down a bunch of landing craft, and run around setting fires.
All they have to do is not slow down--a ship 10x the size of the space shuttle, moving at 0.99c, has about the same energy as the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs.
Over interstellar distances, it's a lot easier to sterilize a planet than it is to invade it.
Hell, it might even be easier to melt the crust than it is to invade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960348</id>
	<title>WRONG!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264885080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just love those who specialize, they have no concept of things out of their field, like say, broadcast Television, AM and Shortwave Radio which emit thousands of watts of rf into the universe 24/7/365.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just love those who specialize , they have no concept of things out of their field , like say , broadcast Television , AM and Shortwave Radio which emit thousands of watts of rf into the universe 24/7/365 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just love those who specialize, they have no concept of things out of their field, like say, broadcast Television, AM and Shortwave Radio which emit thousands of watts of rf into the universe 24/7/365.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963932</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>cyberthanasis12</author>
	<datestamp>1264878240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.</p></div><p>What if the speed of light IS the limit? And what if the huge energy required to send a ship to interstellar distances REMAINS huge cause there are no other means of thrust than Newton's. What if the habitable planters ARE rare (for example 100).<br>
In all these I assume that you send sperm and eggs to travel to another star, along with robots to incubate and raise new human beings (otherwise you assume S.F. is fact - just think, what if all SF says, simply can not be done). What if the eggs/sperm or the robots don't last the thousands of years of the journey? What if the planets there do not have the raw materials needed? What if due to little biological diversity the colony dies out? What if the new human civilization takes thousand of years to reach technological advancement? What if in the mean time Earth civilization is self destructed? If we assumed that a new colony, after thousands of years would send 10 successful missions, and in the mean time 10 human civilizations are self destructed, where is the exponential growth?<br>
It is a fact that in advanced countries people have few children. What if this is true, and in a colony the population is stabilized, and they don't want to leave their comfortable lives? <br>
What if my speculations are correct and yours aren't?<br>
Remember that many technology predictions (moon base, human in mars, flying cars for common people, cure of cancer, supersonic passenger planes, population control,  etc) turned out to be false or failed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard ( or a hundred million years without trying at all , just by tourists on a random walk ) , the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple : there are n't any... if they existed , they 'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.What if the speed of light IS the limit ?
And what if the huge energy required to send a ship to interstellar distances REMAINS huge cause there are no other means of thrust than Newton 's .
What if the habitable planters ARE rare ( for example 100 ) .
In all these I assume that you send sperm and eggs to travel to another star , along with robots to incubate and raise new human beings ( otherwise you assume S.F .
is fact - just think , what if all SF says , simply can not be done ) .
What if the eggs/sperm or the robots do n't last the thousands of years of the journey ?
What if the planets there do not have the raw materials needed ?
What if due to little biological diversity the colony dies out ?
What if the new human civilization takes thousand of years to reach technological advancement ?
What if in the mean time Earth civilization is self destructed ?
If we assumed that a new colony , after thousands of years would send 10 successful missions , and in the mean time 10 human civilizations are self destructed , where is the exponential growth ?
It is a fact that in advanced countries people have few children .
What if this is true , and in a colony the population is stabilized , and they do n't want to leave their comfortable lives ?
What if my speculations are correct and yours are n't ?
Remember that many technology predictions ( moon base , human in mars , flying cars for common people , cure of cancer , supersonic passenger planes , population control , etc ) turned out to be false or failed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.What if the speed of light IS the limit?
And what if the huge energy required to send a ship to interstellar distances REMAINS huge cause there are no other means of thrust than Newton's.
What if the habitable planters ARE rare (for example 100).
In all these I assume that you send sperm and eggs to travel to another star, along with robots to incubate and raise new human beings (otherwise you assume S.F.
is fact - just think, what if all SF says, simply can not be done).
What if the eggs/sperm or the robots don't last the thousands of years of the journey?
What if the planets there do not have the raw materials needed?
What if due to little biological diversity the colony dies out?
What if the new human civilization takes thousand of years to reach technological advancement?
What if in the mean time Earth civilization is self destructed?
If we assumed that a new colony, after thousands of years would send 10 successful missions, and in the mean time 10 human civilizations are self destructed, where is the exponential growth?
It is a fact that in advanced countries people have few children.
What if this is true, and in a colony the population is stabilized, and they don't want to leave their comfortable lives?
What if my speculations are correct and yours aren't?
Remember that many technology predictions (moon base, human in mars, flying cars for common people, cure of cancer, supersonic passenger planes, population control,  etc) turned out to be false or failed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960334</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>precariousgray</author>
	<datestamp>1264884960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And there's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.</p></div><p>I think it's a pretty ignorant statement to presuppose that any other civilization in the universe will necessarily irreparably rape and exploit their planet for resources as badly as we humans have.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And there 's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.I think it 's a pretty ignorant statement to presuppose that any other civilization in the universe will necessarily irreparably rape and exploit their planet for resources as badly as we humans have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And there's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.I think it's a pretty ignorant statement to presuppose that any other civilization in the universe will necessarily irreparably rape and exploit their planet for resources as badly as we humans have.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961914</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Yaotzin</author>
	<datestamp>1264864560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree completely. Name one movie when aliens come in peace and really mean it? Well, apart from District 9, but that doesn't seem like a good scenario either.

I say we go dark until our battle cruisers are operational.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree completely .
Name one movie when aliens come in peace and really mean it ?
Well , apart from District 9 , but that does n't seem like a good scenario either .
I say we go dark until our battle cruisers are operational .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree completely.
Name one movie when aliens come in peace and really mean it?
Well, apart from District 9, but that doesn't seem like a good scenario either.
I say we go dark until our battle cruisers are operational.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960718</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>j\_sp\_r</author>
	<datestamp>1264848000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe they need "Lebensraum", because there are not many planets that sustain life?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they need " Lebensraum " , because there are not many planets that sustain life ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they need "Lebensraum", because there are not many planets that sustain life?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960256</id>
	<title>Only if you were over optimistic</title>
	<author>Asadullah Ahmad</author>
	<datestamp>1264884180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This might have been true if were being really optimistic and assuming that there was Intelligent life within 100 LY of our solar system.</p><p>I really hope and speculate that whatever Extraterrestrials might be trying to listen to us, or someone else for that matter, they will be using something a bit more advanced that our latest technology and form of communication.  </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This might have been true if were being really optimistic and assuming that there was Intelligent life within 100 LY of our solar system.I really hope and speculate that whatever Extraterrestrials might be trying to listen to us , or someone else for that matter , they will be using something a bit more advanced that our latest technology and form of communication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This might have been true if were being really optimistic and assuming that there was Intelligent life within 100 LY of our solar system.I really hope and speculate that whatever Extraterrestrials might be trying to listen to us, or someone else for that matter, they will be using something a bit more advanced that our latest technology and form of communication.  </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961646</id>
	<title>who cares</title>
	<author>Murdoch5</author>
	<datestamp>1264862040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>who cares if someone on planet X hears what your mom made for dinner.  Oh no they got her stuffed chicken recipe<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-O</htmltext>
<tokenext>who cares if someone on planet X hears what your mom made for dinner .
Oh no they got her stuffed chicken recipe : -O</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who cares if someone on planet X hears what your mom made for dinner.
Oh no they got her stuffed chicken recipe :-O</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960242</id>
	<title>Light pollution</title>
	<author>ickleberry</author>
	<datestamp>1264884060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals?<br> <br>

Even if they detect a digital signal they still have to demodulate it to this obscure 'base-2' encoding we use over here because it works well with our equipment they have either grown out of or never discovered, after that they might decide to visit <a href="http://www.asciitable.com/" title="asciitable.com">asciitable dot com</a> [asciitable.com] to find out what it actually means. <br> <br>

Maybe we can buy out Arecibo and continuously waste a few megawatts at broadcasting a "Hello?! Can you hear me now?" analogue recording</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals ?
Even if they detect a digital signal they still have to demodulate it to this obscure 'base-2 ' encoding we use over here because it works well with our equipment they have either grown out of or never discovered , after that they might decide to visit asciitable dot com [ asciitable.com ] to find out what it actually means .
Maybe we can buy out Arecibo and continuously waste a few megawatts at broadcasting a " Hello ? !
Can you hear me now ?
" analogue recording</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals?
Even if they detect a digital signal they still have to demodulate it to this obscure 'base-2' encoding we use over here because it works well with our equipment they have either grown out of or never discovered, after that they might decide to visit asciitable dot com [asciitable.com] to find out what it actually means.
Maybe we can buy out Arecibo and continuously waste a few megawatts at broadcasting a "Hello?!
Can you hear me now?
" analogue recording</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960548</id>
	<title>Re:Not all signals are communications</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1264844580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just enough to make someone elsewhere say <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!\_signal" title="wikipedia.org">Wow!</a> [wikipedia.org], but no more than that because they won't hear it again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just enough to make someone elsewhere say Wow !
[ wikipedia.org ] , but no more than that because they wo n't hear it again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just enough to make someone elsewhere say Wow!
[wikipedia.org], but no more than that because they won't hear it again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960266</id>
	<title>OMG! Haven't anyone watched the X-Files!</title>
	<author>creimer</author>
	<datestamp>1264884360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Considering that most aliens are hellbent to destroy Earth (according to a reliable media source in Hollywood), maybe going silent would be a good idea?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering that most aliens are hellbent to destroy Earth ( according to a reliable media source in Hollywood ) , maybe going silent would be a good idea ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering that most aliens are hellbent to destroy Earth (according to a reliable media source in Hollywood), maybe going silent would be a good idea?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964158</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264879560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those who have received the signals to date haven't bothered to respond, as they found the reality shows on TV too stupid, thinking us absolute bumbling idiots.</p><p>And this assumes there is intelligent life out there that is capable of communicating with humans.</p><p>Of course, wouldn't it be ironic if the RF we send out hoping to contact other worlds was detected as a type of DDOS, jamming frequencies they use for movement or some such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those who have received the signals to date have n't bothered to respond , as they found the reality shows on TV too stupid , thinking us absolute bumbling idiots.And this assumes there is intelligent life out there that is capable of communicating with humans.Of course , would n't it be ironic if the RF we send out hoping to contact other worlds was detected as a type of DDOS , jamming frequencies they use for movement or some such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those who have received the signals to date haven't bothered to respond, as they found the reality shows on TV too stupid, thinking us absolute bumbling idiots.And this assumes there is intelligent life out there that is capable of communicating with humans.Of course, wouldn't it be ironic if the RF we send out hoping to contact other worlds was detected as a type of DDOS, jamming frequencies they use for movement or some such.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30970286</id>
	<title>Loud Planet</title>
	<author>Bill\_s16</author>
	<datestamp>1264952820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The assumption here is that we'd want to be heard. Can we assume the ETs would as well? And it seems based on a further assumption that any unEarthly culture will be of uniform benign disposition. Could they say the same about us? What is the point of such an assertion in any case? Are we expected to intentionally stunt improvment and energy efficiency of communications just so's we'll be easier to find? Look at the Drake equasion. Fascinating to think about it but purely assumption based, every segment of it. Plug in whatever you want, depending on your own predisposition.

Better, for now, to keep a low galactic profile.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The assumption here is that we 'd want to be heard .
Can we assume the ETs would as well ?
And it seems based on a further assumption that any unEarthly culture will be of uniform benign disposition .
Could they say the same about us ?
What is the point of such an assertion in any case ?
Are we expected to intentionally stunt improvment and energy efficiency of communications just so 's we 'll be easier to find ?
Look at the Drake equasion .
Fascinating to think about it but purely assumption based , every segment of it .
Plug in whatever you want , depending on your own predisposition .
Better , for now , to keep a low galactic profile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The assumption here is that we'd want to be heard.
Can we assume the ETs would as well?
And it seems based on a further assumption that any unEarthly culture will be of uniform benign disposition.
Could they say the same about us?
What is the point of such an assertion in any case?
Are we expected to intentionally stunt improvment and energy efficiency of communications just so's we'll be easier to find?
Look at the Drake equasion.
Fascinating to think about it but purely assumption based, every segment of it.
Plug in whatever you want, depending on your own predisposition.
Better, for now, to keep a low galactic profile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961150</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>Nathrael</author>
	<datestamp>1264854960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.</p></div><p>

That is assuming that a sufficiently advanced alien race has the *desire* to colonize other systems. Consider how "close" (on a grander scale) humanity already is to developments such as universal constructors and advanced AIs - and if you could turn anything you have into anything you desire, if you are quasi-immortal with no need to reproduce: why colonize the universe when you have all you need already at home?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard ( or a hundred million years without trying at all , just by tourists on a random walk ) , the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple : there are n't any... if they existed , they 'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan .
That is assuming that a sufficiently advanced alien race has the * desire * to colonize other systems .
Consider how " close " ( on a grander scale ) humanity already is to developments such as universal constructors and advanced AIs - and if you could turn anything you have into anything you desire , if you are quasi-immortal with no need to reproduce : why colonize the universe when you have all you need already at home ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that any alien race who chose to expand could colonise the entire galaxy in under ten million years without even trying hard (or a hundred million years without trying at all, just by tourists on a random walk), the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: there aren't any... if they existed, they'd be about as hard to spot as technological life in Manhattan.
That is assuming that a sufficiently advanced alien race has the *desire* to colonize other systems.
Consider how "close" (on a grander scale) humanity already is to developments such as universal constructors and advanced AIs - and if you could turn anything you have into anything you desire, if you are quasi-immortal with no need to reproduce: why colonize the universe when you have all you need already at home?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960782</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>MrKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1264849020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
Good, ever heard of Lamb civilisations and Wolf civilisations. We're a lamb civilisation chained to a gravity well bleating in the dark 'come and eat us wolves'. I'm glad we're learning how to be quiet.</p><blockquote><div><p>Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
Or a Wolf civilisation doesn't want competition for resources from another (potentially) star faring race that may itself become a Wolf. Hasn't anyone read Greg Bear's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Forge\_of\_God" title="wikipedia.org">The Forge of God</a> [wikipedia.org]. There is no need for any contact, any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve complete destruction of a target race without even knowing they have done it.</p><blockquote><div><p>It's happened before, it could happen again. Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / "Indians" / etc.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
Yeah well one things for certain, I doubt you would need to use a shuttle full of explosives to do it, just push a big rock from somewhere in orbit and calculate where you want it to land. Then say to the natives - "how terrible - how can we help you? BTW - stay away from \_BIG\_HOLE\_ as it is very dangerous - We will send machines in there to 'clean it up'". Still I suppose they needed a plot line that Joe Public could understand.</p><p>
Mass drivers from orbit people, once you have the high ground you hold *all* the aces.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located .
Good , ever heard of Lamb civilisations and Wolf civilisations .
We 're a lamb civilisation chained to a gravity well bleating in the dark 'come and eat us wolves' .
I 'm glad we 're learning how to be quiet.Extreme desire for another habitable place to live .
Or a Wolf civilisation does n't want competition for resources from another ( potentially ) star faring race that may itself become a Wolf .
Has n't anyone read Greg Bear 's The Forge of God [ wikipedia.org ] .
There is no need for any contact , any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve complete destruction of a target race without even knowing they have done it.It 's happened before , it could happen again .
Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / " Indians " / etc .
Yeah well one things for certain , I doubt you would need to use a shuttle full of explosives to do it , just push a big rock from somewhere in orbit and calculate where you want it to land .
Then say to the natives - " how terrible - how can we help you ?
BTW - stay away from \ _BIG \ _HOLE \ _ as it is very dangerous - We will send machines in there to 'clean it up ' " .
Still I suppose they needed a plot line that Joe Public could understand .
Mass drivers from orbit people , once you have the high ground you hold * all * the aces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It reduces the probability that earth could be quickly located.
Good, ever heard of Lamb civilisations and Wolf civilisations.
We're a lamb civilisation chained to a gravity well bleating in the dark 'come and eat us wolves'.
I'm glad we're learning how to be quiet.Extreme desire for another habitable place to live.
Or a Wolf civilisation doesn't want competition for resources from another (potentially) star faring race that may itself become a Wolf.
Hasn't anyone read Greg Bear's The Forge of God [wikipedia.org].
There is no need for any contact, any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve complete destruction of a target race without even knowing they have done it.It's happened before, it could happen again.
Except us earth inhabitants could be the primitive natives / "Indians" / etc.
Yeah well one things for certain, I doubt you would need to use a shuttle full of explosives to do it, just push a big rock from somewhere in orbit and calculate where you want it to land.
Then say to the natives - "how terrible - how can we help you?
BTW - stay away from \_BIG\_HOLE\_ as it is very dangerous - We will send machines in there to 'clean it up'".
Still I suppose they needed a plot line that Joe Public could understand.
Mass drivers from orbit people, once you have the high ground you hold *all* the aces.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961256</id>
	<title>Any sufficiently advanced intelligence ...</title>
	<author>Fractal Dice</author>
	<datestamp>1264856460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I believe there is a general principle here that goes beyond the technology at hand: any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from white noise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe there is a general principle here that goes beyond the technology at hand : any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from white noise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe there is a general principle here that goes beyond the technology at hand: any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from white noise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30966706</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Pseudonym</author>
	<datestamp>1264856700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet he didn't factor DRM into the equation.  Even if we find a radio signal, it's not guaranteed that the key server will still be up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet he did n't factor DRM into the equation .
Even if we find a radio signal , it 's not guaranteed that the key server will still be up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet he didn't factor DRM into the equation.
Even if we find a radio signal, it's not guaranteed that the key server will still be up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962048</id>
	<title>just as well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264865700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i hate to think what another culture would think of the drivel we call media today</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i hate to think what another culture would think of the drivel we call media today</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i hate to think what another culture would think of the drivel we call media today</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264884660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me.</p><p>Given the rapid advancement of telecommunications technology we've observed, to me it seems entirely possible that a civilization a few hundred or thousand years beyond ours might not even be using a technology analogous to RF transmission.  Entanglement, gravitation manipulation, something entirely different?</p><p>We can only imagine, because who can say what discoveries the future will hold, but you can be damn sure that a thousand years from now we'll be using something different than we are now.  The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore, or smoke signals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me.Given the rapid advancement of telecommunications technology we 've observed , to me it seems entirely possible that a civilization a few hundred or thousand years beyond ours might not even be using a technology analogous to RF transmission .
Entanglement , gravitation manipulation , something entirely different ? We can only imagine , because who can say what discoveries the future will hold , but you can be damn sure that a thousand years from now we 'll be using something different than we are now .
The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore , or smoke signals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me.Given the rapid advancement of telecommunications technology we've observed, to me it seems entirely possible that a civilization a few hundred or thousand years beyond ours might not even be using a technology analogous to RF transmission.
Entanglement, gravitation manipulation, something entirely different?We can only imagine, because who can say what discoveries the future will hold, but you can be damn sure that a thousand years from now we'll be using something different than we are now.
The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore, or smoke signals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961082</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264853640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The value of Earth is in its information content, not its materials. I imagine you could sell the details on an entire alien ecosystem for a high price in an information society.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The value of Earth is in its information content , not its materials .
I imagine you could sell the details on an entire alien ecosystem for a high price in an information society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The value of Earth is in its information content, not its materials.
I imagine you could sell the details on an entire alien ecosystem for a high price in an information society.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960818</id>
	<title>WRONG</title>
	<author>symes</author>
	<datestamp>1264849440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Economically, it might be more expensive keeping the invasion fleet at home - better to have them wander the galaxy picking fights under the aegis of securing inter-galactic democracy - nothing worse than having trained killers hanging out in the 'burbs. Or they might even be space nomads looking for suitable planets to stop off at to eat, get sexy and reproduce before carrying on through space. Or, Earth might be home to a resource that is exceptionally valuable, such as haemoglobin(?!) or raw brains, to their sprawling empire making the journey potentially profitable for inter-galactic venture capitalists. So there are plenty of reasons why we can expect aliens to come calling - in fact is is surprising it hasn't happened already.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Economically , it might be more expensive keeping the invasion fleet at home - better to have them wander the galaxy picking fights under the aegis of securing inter-galactic democracy - nothing worse than having trained killers hanging out in the 'burbs .
Or they might even be space nomads looking for suitable planets to stop off at to eat , get sexy and reproduce before carrying on through space .
Or , Earth might be home to a resource that is exceptionally valuable , such as haemoglobin ( ? !
) or raw brains , to their sprawling empire making the journey potentially profitable for inter-galactic venture capitalists .
So there are plenty of reasons why we can expect aliens to come calling - in fact is is surprising it has n't happened already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Economically, it might be more expensive keeping the invasion fleet at home - better to have them wander the galaxy picking fights under the aegis of securing inter-galactic democracy - nothing worse than having trained killers hanging out in the 'burbs.
Or they might even be space nomads looking for suitable planets to stop off at to eat, get sexy and reproduce before carrying on through space.
Or, Earth might be home to a resource that is exceptionally valuable, such as haemoglobin(?!
) or raw brains, to their sprawling empire making the journey potentially profitable for inter-galactic venture capitalists.
So there are plenty of reasons why we can expect aliens to come calling - in fact is is surprising it hasn't happened already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960568</id>
	<title>Re:Light pollution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264844820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals?</p></div></blockquote><p>
<b>Zcjribaz</b>: Hey, 'rup, I got a solar system with a planet whose absorption spectrum, relative to its sun, shows tons of free diatomic oxygen in its atmosphere.  Gotta be life there.  Otherwise the oxygen would react with all the other crap on the surface and precipitate out as rust, right? <br>
<b>Freljrup</b>: Zude, look at the emission lines.  I don't know what kind of chemistry's going on up there to produce the free oxygen, but faint as it is, it's proof that it's also vaporizing sodium.  Anything based on carbon would have been incinerated.</p><p>
If they're watching for the planet's transit of the star,  they can only see the night side of the planet.  The ring of atmosphere absorbs some of the Sun's light, and they see that we have oxygen, but they're <em>always</em> looking at the night side of Earth, so the streetlights are <em>always</em> on.
</p><p>
If they're watching us from above (or below) the plane of the ecliptic, they get a mix of absorption (sunlight filtered through the atmosphere, reflected from the planet's surface, and bounced through the atmosphere again before it hits their telescopes) and emission (sodium vapor streetlamps on the night side of the planet) spectra.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals ?
Zcjribaz : Hey , 'rup , I got a solar system with a planet whose absorption spectrum , relative to its sun , shows tons of free diatomic oxygen in its atmosphere .
Got ta be life there .
Otherwise the oxygen would react with all the other crap on the surface and precipitate out as rust , right ?
Freljrup : Zude , look at the emission lines .
I do n't know what kind of chemistry 's going on up there to produce the free oxygen , but faint as it is , it 's proof that it 's also vaporizing sodium .
Anything based on carbon would have been incinerated .
If they 're watching for the planet 's transit of the star , they can only see the night side of the planet .
The ring of atmosphere absorbs some of the Sun 's light , and they see that we have oxygen , but they 're always looking at the night side of Earth , so the streetlights are always on .
If they 're watching us from above ( or below ) the plane of the ecliptic , they get a mix of absorption ( sunlight filtered through the atmosphere , reflected from the planet 's surface , and bounced through the atmosphere again before it hits their telescopes ) and emission ( sodium vapor streetlamps on the night side of the planet ) spectra .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since we still pump large amounts of light into space from street-lighting around the world would that not be easier to detect than a few encoded radio signals?
Zcjribaz: Hey, 'rup, I got a solar system with a planet whose absorption spectrum, relative to its sun, shows tons of free diatomic oxygen in its atmosphere.
Gotta be life there.
Otherwise the oxygen would react with all the other crap on the surface and precipitate out as rust, right?
Freljrup: Zude, look at the emission lines.
I don't know what kind of chemistry's going on up there to produce the free oxygen, but faint as it is, it's proof that it's also vaporizing sodium.
Anything based on carbon would have been incinerated.
If they're watching for the planet's transit of the star,  they can only see the night side of the planet.
The ring of atmosphere absorbs some of the Sun's light, and they see that we have oxygen, but they're always looking at the night side of Earth, so the streetlights are always on.
If they're watching us from above (or below) the plane of the ecliptic, they get a mix of absorption (sunlight filtered through the atmosphere, reflected from the planet's surface, and bounced through the atmosphere again before it hits their telescopes) and emission (sodium vapor streetlamps on the night side of the planet) spectra.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960722</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264848120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?</p></div> </blockquote><p>No, as it turns out, you're the first person <em>ever</em> to consider it.  The first person in the entirety of human history.  Even as I type, the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that's significant enough to even <em>begin</em> to recognise the enormity of your insight.  <em>Do not leave your home</em>: a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your <em>400 foot tall solid gold statue</em>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ?
No , as it turns out , you 're the first person ever to consider it .
The first person in the entirety of human history .
Even as I type , the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that 's significant enough to even begin to recognise the enormity of your insight .
Do not leave your home : a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your 400 foot tall solid gold statue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?
No, as it turns out, you're the first person ever to consider it.
The first person in the entirety of human history.
Even as I type, the Nobel Committee are holding an emergency session to create a new honour that's significant enough to even begin to recognise the enormity of your insight.
Do not leave your home: a team of crack sculptors are en route to measure you up for your 400 foot tall solid gold statue.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30968316</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>toddestan</author>
	<datestamp>1264876560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, there is also the assumption that other civilizations will advance at approximately the same rate as ours.  Is there any reason why the "radio age" of other civilizations couldn't last thousands or even millions of years, therefore greatly increasing the changes we'd detect them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , there is also the assumption that other civilizations will advance at approximately the same rate as ours .
Is there any reason why the " radio age " of other civilizations could n't last thousands or even millions of years , therefore greatly increasing the changes we 'd detect them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, there is also the assumption that other civilizations will advance at approximately the same rate as ours.
Is there any reason why the "radio age" of other civilizations couldn't last thousands or even millions of years, therefore greatly increasing the changes we'd detect them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30965902</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>similar\_name</author>
	<datestamp>1264849680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me.</p></div><p>

The equation or one of it's variables?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore, or smoke signals.</p></div><p>To me it just seemed to take into account some kind of communications window.  Are you just disagreeing with the size of that window?  As our own technology increases do you think SETI will stop looking for 'old tech' signals?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me .
The equation or one of it 's variables ? The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore , or smoke signals.To me it just seemed to take into account some kind of communications window .
Are you just disagreeing with the size of that window ?
As our own technology increases do you think SETI will stop looking for 'old tech ' signals ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why the Drake equation never did seem to make much sense to me.
The equation or one of it's variables?The Drake equation always seem to me to require the presupposition that a far advanced extraterrestrial civilization would be using the equivalent of.. cosmic flag semaphore, or smoke signals.To me it just seemed to take into account some kind of communications window.
Are you just disagreeing with the size of that window?
As our own technology increases do you think SETI will stop looking for 'old tech' signals?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960454</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1264843200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads. Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, </i> <br> <br>
Well, magic isn't totally out of the question - any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic, and any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads .
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device , Well , magic is n't totally out of the question - any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic , and any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads.
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device,   
Well, magic isn't totally out of the question - any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic, and any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961038</id>
	<title>QRP The Frequency!</title>
	<author>mbstone</author>
	<datestamp>1264852980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Extraterrestrials are advanced beings who lead by example.  In particular, they obey FCC Part 97, which states that one must use "the minimum power necessary to carry out the desired communications."  We should follow their lead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Extraterrestrials are advanced beings who lead by example .
In particular , they obey FCC Part 97 , which states that one must use " the minimum power necessary to carry out the desired communications .
" We should follow their lead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Extraterrestrials are advanced beings who lead by example.
In particular, they obey FCC Part 97, which states that one must use "the minimum power necessary to carry out the desired communications.
"  We should follow their lead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963182</id>
	<title>Radio Is Just a Fad Anyway</title>
	<author>Wingsy</author>
	<datestamp>1264874220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a cosmic nanosecond or two (couple hundred years or less), kids will be learning in history class how the ancients (us) used radio to communicate. We'll be moving on to gravity wave communications pretty soon, and radio will be history, forever. That's why we're not hearing anything. No one in the cosmos is using radio any more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a cosmic nanosecond or two ( couple hundred years or less ) , kids will be learning in history class how the ancients ( us ) used radio to communicate .
We 'll be moving on to gravity wave communications pretty soon , and radio will be history , forever .
That 's why we 're not hearing anything .
No one in the cosmos is using radio any more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a cosmic nanosecond or two (couple hundred years or less), kids will be learning in history class how the ancients (us) used radio to communicate.
We'll be moving on to gravity wave communications pretty soon, and radio will be history, forever.
That's why we're not hearing anything.
No one in the cosmos is using radio any more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963296</id>
	<title>Life sterilization would be self-protection</title>
	<author>Dr. Spork</author>
	<datestamp>1264874880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that it's stupid to imagine aliens coming here to take our resources. However, it might still be perfectly rational for them to come and destroy us. If we survive long enough, we might start an era of galactic colonization, where we jump from star system to star system, grinding up whatever material we find into gigantic orbiting space stations.</p><p>Any radio-trasmitting civilization has the potential to become a galactic colonizer. So suppose that you belong to a society who also intends to colonize the galaxy and is perhaps a little bit more advanced. Then you notice a potential rival 100 light years away, who just entered their broadcast TV era. You realize that in the far future there might well be a great, catastrophic confrontation, as your wave of colonization bumps into theirs. But there is a cheap way to prevent this calamity: You send a giant sterilization machine or some such thing. Maybe it would drop a small black hole into the sun's gravity well, or maybe it would be a factory to assemble a robotic army from the material in the asteroid belt. In any case, if they could wipe us out before we settle other solar systems, they would save themselves a lot of future grief.</p><p>If they're nice, they'll want to study us a bit before they kill us, and they might even keep several thousand of us in some kind of a zoo.  However, that would add significantly to the expense of the extermination. At its cheapest, they could just calculate how long we will remain stuck in the solar system - suppose that in our case it will be another thousand years - and then send their mechanical destructive commando to us at a languid 10\% the speed of light. That would be the smart thing to do... so expect it to arrive in about 900 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that it 's stupid to imagine aliens coming here to take our resources .
However , it might still be perfectly rational for them to come and destroy us .
If we survive long enough , we might start an era of galactic colonization , where we jump from star system to star system , grinding up whatever material we find into gigantic orbiting space stations.Any radio-trasmitting civilization has the potential to become a galactic colonizer .
So suppose that you belong to a society who also intends to colonize the galaxy and is perhaps a little bit more advanced .
Then you notice a potential rival 100 light years away , who just entered their broadcast TV era .
You realize that in the far future there might well be a great , catastrophic confrontation , as your wave of colonization bumps into theirs .
But there is a cheap way to prevent this calamity : You send a giant sterilization machine or some such thing .
Maybe it would drop a small black hole into the sun 's gravity well , or maybe it would be a factory to assemble a robotic army from the material in the asteroid belt .
In any case , if they could wipe us out before we settle other solar systems , they would save themselves a lot of future grief.If they 're nice , they 'll want to study us a bit before they kill us , and they might even keep several thousand of us in some kind of a zoo .
However , that would add significantly to the expense of the extermination .
At its cheapest , they could just calculate how long we will remain stuck in the solar system - suppose that in our case it will be another thousand years - and then send their mechanical destructive commando to us at a languid 10 \ % the speed of light .
That would be the smart thing to do... so expect it to arrive in about 900 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that it's stupid to imagine aliens coming here to take our resources.
However, it might still be perfectly rational for them to come and destroy us.
If we survive long enough, we might start an era of galactic colonization, where we jump from star system to star system, grinding up whatever material we find into gigantic orbiting space stations.Any radio-trasmitting civilization has the potential to become a galactic colonizer.
So suppose that you belong to a society who also intends to colonize the galaxy and is perhaps a little bit more advanced.
Then you notice a potential rival 100 light years away, who just entered their broadcast TV era.
You realize that in the far future there might well be a great, catastrophic confrontation, as your wave of colonization bumps into theirs.
But there is a cheap way to prevent this calamity: You send a giant sterilization machine or some such thing.
Maybe it would drop a small black hole into the sun's gravity well, or maybe it would be a factory to assemble a robotic army from the material in the asteroid belt.
In any case, if they could wipe us out before we settle other solar systems, they would save themselves a lot of future grief.If they're nice, they'll want to study us a bit before they kill us, and they might even keep several thousand of us in some kind of a zoo.
However, that would add significantly to the expense of the extermination.
At its cheapest, they could just calculate how long we will remain stuck in the solar system - suppose that in our case it will be another thousand years - and then send their mechanical destructive commando to us at a languid 10\% the speed of light.
That would be the smart thing to do... so expect it to arrive in about 900 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960478</id>
	<title>This is not the pun you're looking for.</title>
	<author>fenix849</author>
	<datestamp>1264843560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't beleive i'm the first person to think of/post this, but:
<br>
In space, nobody can hear you stream.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't beleive i 'm the first person to think of/post this , but : In space , nobody can hear you stream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't beleive i'm the first person to think of/post this, but:

In space, nobody can hear you stream.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963110</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264873740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the exact way I feel about it too. Instead of looking for one strong carrier frequency from a source, they really do need to look at a spread. And if they get timescale resolution right, the granularity of an artificial signal should pop out. (All the peaks and troughs visible in the carrier frequencies should start to sync up. This pattern should even be visible with through a layer of light to moderate noise.)</p><p>In fact, spread spectrum would actually be a better way to <i>intentionally</i> send signals for detection by other possible intelligence. Instead of pumping all your energy just to support a continous single carrier signal with a tone or waveform, you're only worried about the peak output of your spread's frequencies which is just a nice and fast simple pop or click. A sufficiently large capacitor bank should allow for quite a bit of signal reach while having a fairly economic average power draw. In fact power demand would be more related to how fast you want to send the information rather than how far you want it to go.</p><p>The funny thing is that the technology needed to do this could have been used by the early radio pioneer Marconi himself. (And it's likely Tesla did have a few R/C experiments that <i>were</i> based on this approach.) Just make a set of tuned spark gap transmitters. Then trigger the "pop" on each frequency with an electromechanical mechanism, which could be programmed with a music box wheel or a piano roll. If you have a bunch of frequency specific recievers, it's very easy to send a code by where those peaks line up. (Maybe Spielburg was making a point about this years ago in his E.T. movie. The beacon apparatus made from a Speak n' Spell and other junk couldn't have been that complex.)</p><p>As for what code to send for MITI/active-SETI? Just start repeat counting using binary math. Why? It makes a nice fractal pattern that is distinctive and not likely to be natural. (Although feel free to correct me if there are known naturally occuring binary counters.) Anybody who knows something about math and computers (electronic or electromechanical) should be able to spot it right away. If you want to say "Hello everybody! Here I am!", making some form of spread spectrum binary count repeater is likely the best way (other than a much less efficient single band carrier). Save the coded messages and other info for when you find a reply. (Which the KISS approach would mean finding another binary counter or reversed binary counter.)</p><p>As where to look? I'd say review known radio pulsar sources. And that list is likely to be narrowed down by looking for ones that seem more unusual (like origin can't quite be placed to a star itself, given other factors.) This is because the lowest value(s) of a binary counter are going to be repeating the fastest, and are likely to be thrown into the bin with natural pulsar sources.</p><p>The other thing that's wrong with the current mainstream SETI is that it's way too passive. If every intelligent lifeform in a galactic neighborhood takes the listen only approach, then none of their SETI programs will be fruitful. It requires two way communication to work. Somebody has to step up and say "Hello!" And the fear of bad actors is a lame excuse for not broadcasting; if they <i>can</i> get here, whether or not we broadcast doesn't matter. If I were part of an aggressive space empire, I know I'd give Earth a visit just because of the interesting and peculiar spectrographic properties in its reflected light. Precedent seems to bear this out too. It's not like the Europeans were looking for smoke signals from the natives before they overran and colonized the Americas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the exact way I feel about it too .
Instead of looking for one strong carrier frequency from a source , they really do need to look at a spread .
And if they get timescale resolution right , the granularity of an artificial signal should pop out .
( All the peaks and troughs visible in the carrier frequencies should start to sync up .
This pattern should even be visible with through a layer of light to moderate noise .
) In fact , spread spectrum would actually be a better way to intentionally send signals for detection by other possible intelligence .
Instead of pumping all your energy just to support a continous single carrier signal with a tone or waveform , you 're only worried about the peak output of your spread 's frequencies which is just a nice and fast simple pop or click .
A sufficiently large capacitor bank should allow for quite a bit of signal reach while having a fairly economic average power draw .
In fact power demand would be more related to how fast you want to send the information rather than how far you want it to go.The funny thing is that the technology needed to do this could have been used by the early radio pioneer Marconi himself .
( And it 's likely Tesla did have a few R/C experiments that were based on this approach .
) Just make a set of tuned spark gap transmitters .
Then trigger the " pop " on each frequency with an electromechanical mechanism , which could be programmed with a music box wheel or a piano roll .
If you have a bunch of frequency specific recievers , it 's very easy to send a code by where those peaks line up .
( Maybe Spielburg was making a point about this years ago in his E.T .
movie. The beacon apparatus made from a Speak n ' Spell and other junk could n't have been that complex .
) As for what code to send for MITI/active-SETI ?
Just start repeat counting using binary math .
Why ? It makes a nice fractal pattern that is distinctive and not likely to be natural .
( Although feel free to correct me if there are known naturally occuring binary counters .
) Anybody who knows something about math and computers ( electronic or electromechanical ) should be able to spot it right away .
If you want to say " Hello everybody !
Here I am !
" , making some form of spread spectrum binary count repeater is likely the best way ( other than a much less efficient single band carrier ) .
Save the coded messages and other info for when you find a reply .
( Which the KISS approach would mean finding another binary counter or reversed binary counter .
) As where to look ?
I 'd say review known radio pulsar sources .
And that list is likely to be narrowed down by looking for ones that seem more unusual ( like origin ca n't quite be placed to a star itself , given other factors .
) This is because the lowest value ( s ) of a binary counter are going to be repeating the fastest , and are likely to be thrown into the bin with natural pulsar sources.The other thing that 's wrong with the current mainstream SETI is that it 's way too passive .
If every intelligent lifeform in a galactic neighborhood takes the listen only approach , then none of their SETI programs will be fruitful .
It requires two way communication to work .
Somebody has to step up and say " Hello !
" And the fear of bad actors is a lame excuse for not broadcasting ; if they can get here , whether or not we broadcast does n't matter .
If I were part of an aggressive space empire , I know I 'd give Earth a visit just because of the interesting and peculiar spectrographic properties in its reflected light .
Precedent seems to bear this out too .
It 's not like the Europeans were looking for smoke signals from the natives before they overran and colonized the Americas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the exact way I feel about it too.
Instead of looking for one strong carrier frequency from a source, they really do need to look at a spread.
And if they get timescale resolution right, the granularity of an artificial signal should pop out.
(All the peaks and troughs visible in the carrier frequencies should start to sync up.
This pattern should even be visible with through a layer of light to moderate noise.
)In fact, spread spectrum would actually be a better way to intentionally send signals for detection by other possible intelligence.
Instead of pumping all your energy just to support a continous single carrier signal with a tone or waveform, you're only worried about the peak output of your spread's frequencies which is just a nice and fast simple pop or click.
A sufficiently large capacitor bank should allow for quite a bit of signal reach while having a fairly economic average power draw.
In fact power demand would be more related to how fast you want to send the information rather than how far you want it to go.The funny thing is that the technology needed to do this could have been used by the early radio pioneer Marconi himself.
(And it's likely Tesla did have a few R/C experiments that were based on this approach.
) Just make a set of tuned spark gap transmitters.
Then trigger the "pop" on each frequency with an electromechanical mechanism, which could be programmed with a music box wheel or a piano roll.
If you have a bunch of frequency specific recievers, it's very easy to send a code by where those peaks line up.
(Maybe Spielburg was making a point about this years ago in his E.T.
movie. The beacon apparatus made from a Speak n' Spell and other junk couldn't have been that complex.
)As for what code to send for MITI/active-SETI?
Just start repeat counting using binary math.
Why? It makes a nice fractal pattern that is distinctive and not likely to be natural.
(Although feel free to correct me if there are known naturally occuring binary counters.
) Anybody who knows something about math and computers (electronic or electromechanical) should be able to spot it right away.
If you want to say "Hello everybody!
Here I am!
", making some form of spread spectrum binary count repeater is likely the best way (other than a much less efficient single band carrier).
Save the coded messages and other info for when you find a reply.
(Which the KISS approach would mean finding another binary counter or reversed binary counter.
)As where to look?
I'd say review known radio pulsar sources.
And that list is likely to be narrowed down by looking for ones that seem more unusual (like origin can't quite be placed to a star itself, given other factors.
) This is because the lowest value(s) of a binary counter are going to be repeating the fastest, and are likely to be thrown into the bin with natural pulsar sources.The other thing that's wrong with the current mainstream SETI is that it's way too passive.
If every intelligent lifeform in a galactic neighborhood takes the listen only approach, then none of their SETI programs will be fruitful.
It requires two way communication to work.
Somebody has to step up and say "Hello!
" And the fear of bad actors is a lame excuse for not broadcasting; if they can get here, whether or not we broadcast doesn't matter.
If I were part of an aggressive space empire, I know I'd give Earth a visit just because of the interesting and peculiar spectrographic properties in its reflected light.
Precedent seems to bear this out too.
It's not like the Europeans were looking for smoke signals from the natives before they overran and colonized the Americas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964536</id>
	<title>Alien Vs Predator like too watch MTV?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264882560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does Alf really care to watch old Episodes of Alf?<br>I'm sure the only broadcast signal we could send that would even make sense to aliens would be footage of Lady Gaga</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Alf really care to watch old Episodes of Alf ? I 'm sure the only broadcast signal we could send that would even make sense to aliens would be footage of Lady Gaga</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does Alf really care to watch old Episodes of Alf?I'm sure the only broadcast signal we could send that would even make sense to aliens would be footage of Lady Gaga</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961350</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>BlackHawk-666</author>
	<datestamp>1264857720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, if they looked like the Kilrathi from Wing Commander, or those hot blue chicks from Avatar - I saw it would be worth it.</p><p>I for one welcome our super sized Smurfette overlords.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , if they looked like the Kilrathi from Wing Commander , or those hot blue chicks from Avatar - I saw it would be worth it.I for one welcome our super sized Smurfette overlords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, if they looked like the Kilrathi from Wing Commander, or those hot blue chicks from Avatar - I saw it would be worth it.I for one welcome our super sized Smurfette overlords.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962994</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1264873200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are ignoring radar. Radar tends to have very simple spectra, to make it easy to detect a weak reflected signal. There are excellent reasons why weather radars in the GHz range will be around for a long time to come (what other wavelength is small enough to reflect from raindrops but able to penetrate through clouds ?), and no apparent technical reason for such radars to use spread spectrum.</p><p>And, by the way, the FCC had no problem approving NEXRAD, with 750 KW narrow band transmitters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are ignoring radar .
Radar tends to have very simple spectra , to make it easy to detect a weak reflected signal .
There are excellent reasons why weather radars in the GHz range will be around for a long time to come ( what other wavelength is small enough to reflect from raindrops but able to penetrate through clouds ?
) , and no apparent technical reason for such radars to use spread spectrum.And , by the way , the FCC had no problem approving NEXRAD , with 750 KW narrow band transmitters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are ignoring radar.
Radar tends to have very simple spectra, to make it easy to detect a weak reflected signal.
There are excellent reasons why weather radars in the GHz range will be around for a long time to come (what other wavelength is small enough to reflect from raindrops but able to penetrate through clouds ?
), and no apparent technical reason for such radars to use spread spectrum.And, by the way, the FCC had no problem approving NEXRAD, with 750 KW narrow band transmitters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960654</id>
	<title>oblig.</title>
	<author>SeaFox</author>
	<datestamp>1264846560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space.</p></div></blockquote><p>Curses! Yet another victim of the new AT&amp;T's wireless service!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space.Curses !
Yet another victim of the new AT&amp;T 's wireless service !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space.Curses!
Yet another victim of the new AT&amp;T's wireless service!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963238</id>
	<title>Re:What's a few orders of magitude out of trillion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264874460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think you understand how dB work.</p><p>Here is an example - we communicate easily with spacecraft at a distance of 1 Astronomical Unit (AU). The nearest stars are a little less than 300,000 AU away, and so the signal from the same DSN transmitter would be about 10^-11 as weak there as it is a 1 AU. That amounts to 110 dB.</p><p>Even at the Andromeda galaxy, this same signal would "only" be down by 224 dB as compared to 1 AU.</p><p>So, yes, 100 dB is a big deal. It is comparable to the difference between the planets and the nearest stars, or the nearest stars and other galaxies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think you understand how dB work.Here is an example - we communicate easily with spacecraft at a distance of 1 Astronomical Unit ( AU ) .
The nearest stars are a little less than 300,000 AU away , and so the signal from the same DSN transmitter would be about 10 ^ -11 as weak there as it is a 1 AU .
That amounts to 110 dB.Even at the Andromeda galaxy , this same signal would " only " be down by 224 dB as compared to 1 AU.So , yes , 100 dB is a big deal .
It is comparable to the difference between the planets and the nearest stars , or the nearest stars and other galaxies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think you understand how dB work.Here is an example - we communicate easily with spacecraft at a distance of 1 Astronomical Unit (AU).
The nearest stars are a little less than 300,000 AU away, and so the signal from the same DSN transmitter would be about 10^-11 as weak there as it is a 1 AU.
That amounts to 110 dB.Even at the Andromeda galaxy, this same signal would "only" be down by 224 dB as compared to 1 AU.So, yes, 100 dB is a big deal.
It is comparable to the difference between the planets and the nearest stars, or the nearest stars and other galaxies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961684</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264862400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you can't be damn sure.  It's possible that there are more efficient means of communication, but at present state of knowledge all available evidence indicates that entanglement cannot be used to transmit any information, that gravitation manipulation is extremely difficult and that there are no long-distance forces beyond the ones we know, leaving electromagnetic radiation as the most likely choice.  Of course we have to keep working to uncover more evidence and finding out new means of communication would be wonderful, but we cannot count on them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you ca n't be damn sure .
It 's possible that there are more efficient means of communication , but at present state of knowledge all available evidence indicates that entanglement can not be used to transmit any information , that gravitation manipulation is extremely difficult and that there are no long-distance forces beyond the ones we know , leaving electromagnetic radiation as the most likely choice .
Of course we have to keep working to uncover more evidence and finding out new means of communication would be wonderful , but we can not count on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you can't be damn sure.
It's possible that there are more efficient means of communication, but at present state of knowledge all available evidence indicates that entanglement cannot be used to transmit any information, that gravitation manipulation is extremely difficult and that there are no long-distance forces beyond the ones we know, leaving electromagnetic radiation as the most likely choice.
Of course we have to keep working to uncover more evidence and finding out new means of communication would be wonderful, but we cannot count on them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961294</id>
	<title>Didn't we learn anything from Douglas Adams?</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1264856940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it's safe enough to beam out messages that advertise ourselves to any potential ETs that might at best ruin our civilization with contact, at worst invade and steal our resources.
<br> <br>If a advanced civilization develops the ability to colonize space and cross interstellar distances... why exactly would they need anything from a biosphere at the bottom of a gravity well? Presumably they would be well adapted to space, have all they might need in terms of energy and resources, and no doubt would be more than capable of staying hidden from us if they so chose. <br> <br>
Of course they may just come here out of scientific curiosity, which would necessarily mean a non-interference approach to data gathering.
<br> <br>
Simple economics, getting into and out of a gravity well is expensive.
<br> <br>
I'd sooner believe a Dyson sphere suddenly popping up around our star, or our gas giants being strip mined for useful elements (and the earth being taken out as colateral damage) than I would alien hordes showing up just to say "hi you're not alone" or to steal all our biomass and our beer recipes.
<br> <br>
So this brings me to one of Douglas Adams astute observations hidden in his sci-fi comedy. In Hitchiker's we have the parable of the Vogons destroying earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass. Which was really pointing out that advanced spacefaring species might have absolutely no economic interest in our biosphere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's safe enough to beam out messages that advertise ourselves to any potential ETs that might at best ruin our civilization with contact , at worst invade and steal our resources .
If a advanced civilization develops the ability to colonize space and cross interstellar distances... why exactly would they need anything from a biosphere at the bottom of a gravity well ?
Presumably they would be well adapted to space , have all they might need in terms of energy and resources , and no doubt would be more than capable of staying hidden from us if they so chose .
Of course they may just come here out of scientific curiosity , which would necessarily mean a non-interference approach to data gathering .
Simple economics , getting into and out of a gravity well is expensive .
I 'd sooner believe a Dyson sphere suddenly popping up around our star , or our gas giants being strip mined for useful elements ( and the earth being taken out as colateral damage ) than I would alien hordes showing up just to say " hi you 're not alone " or to steal all our biomass and our beer recipes .
So this brings me to one of Douglas Adams astute observations hidden in his sci-fi comedy .
In Hitchiker 's we have the parable of the Vogons destroying earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass .
Which was really pointing out that advanced spacefaring species might have absolutely no economic interest in our biosphere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's safe enough to beam out messages that advertise ourselves to any potential ETs that might at best ruin our civilization with contact, at worst invade and steal our resources.
If a advanced civilization develops the ability to colonize space and cross interstellar distances... why exactly would they need anything from a biosphere at the bottom of a gravity well?
Presumably they would be well adapted to space, have all they might need in terms of energy and resources, and no doubt would be more than capable of staying hidden from us if they so chose.
Of course they may just come here out of scientific curiosity, which would necessarily mean a non-interference approach to data gathering.
Simple economics, getting into and out of a gravity well is expensive.
I'd sooner believe a Dyson sphere suddenly popping up around our star, or our gas giants being strip mined for useful elements (and the earth being taken out as colateral damage) than I would alien hordes showing up just to say "hi you're not alone" or to steal all our biomass and our beer recipes.
So this brings me to one of Douglas Adams astute observations hidden in his sci-fi comedy.
In Hitchiker's we have the parable of the Vogons destroying earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass.
Which was really pointing out that advanced spacefaring species might have absolutely no economic interest in our biosphere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30965730</id>
	<title>Maybe a good thing?...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264848180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know because we don't need no stinking Reapers spying on us! Not to mention the Geth!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know because we do n't need no stinking Reapers spying on us !
Not to mention the Geth !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know because we don't need no stinking Reapers spying on us!
Not to mention the Geth!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960678</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1264847160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones? The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds. We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races- either they are truculent and violent like we are, or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy. We do not wants aliens to find us!</p></div><p>Not a problem, unless they're very long lived or really have found a faster than light travel mechanism. Civilizations that were conquered on earth were all reachable well inside a human lifetime. What's more the civilizations all had things of value to the invaders - land, resources, natives to indoctrinate in their religion. Any civilization sufficiently advanced to invade would likely be able to obtain their resources more locally, and colonise more local uninhabited worlds. I would hope they're past superstition, but who knows.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ?
The Native Americans , the Mayans , the Incas , the Australian Aborigines , the tribes of South America , the natives of Pacific Islands , to name a few , all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first , second , and third kinds .
We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races- either they are truculent and violent like we are , or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy .
We do not wants aliens to find us ! Not a problem , unless they 're very long lived or really have found a faster than light travel mechanism .
Civilizations that were conquered on earth were all reachable well inside a human lifetime .
What 's more the civilizations all had things of value to the invaders - land , resources , natives to indoctrinate in their religion .
Any civilization sufficiently advanced to invade would likely be able to obtain their resources more locally , and colonise more local uninhabited worlds .
I would hope they 're past superstition , but who knows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?
The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds.
We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races- either they are truculent and violent like we are, or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy.
We do not wants aliens to find us!Not a problem, unless they're very long lived or really have found a faster than light travel mechanism.
Civilizations that were conquered on earth were all reachable well inside a human lifetime.
What's more the civilizations all had things of value to the invaders - land, resources, natives to indoctrinate in their religion.
Any civilization sufficiently advanced to invade would likely be able to obtain their resources more locally, and colonise more local uninhabited worlds.
I would hope they're past superstition, but who knows.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960248</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Supurcell</author>
	<datestamp>1264884060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>So even if we do happen to pick up radio signals from the 100 or so year window, during which aliens would be broadcasting radio waves, by the time we hear them, they could have been long extinct due to some catastrophe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So even if we do happen to pick up radio signals from the 100 or so year window , during which aliens would be broadcasting radio waves , by the time we hear them , they could have been long extinct due to some catastrophe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So even if we do happen to pick up radio signals from the 100 or so year window, during which aliens would be broadcasting radio waves, by the time we hear them, they could have been long extinct due to some catastrophe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962402</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>dissy</author>
	<datestamp>1264868580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason. Much SETI effort was focused on looking for "carriers", big constant-frequency RF sources.</p></div><p>So 50 years ago when SETI started, and humanity only had the ability to detect radio waves modulated in such a way as to be not naturally created, yet no space telescopes or other technology...  What exactly would you have them do?</p><p>It's like handing you a pair of binoculars, and telling you that you suck for only being able to see whats near you, and why the hell aren't you looking hundreds of miles away?</p><p>The fact of the matter is, with the technology we had 50 years ago, looking for radio carriers was our only option. We had no methods to look for the signs we suspected an advanced technological civilization would use.  All we had was radio.</p><p>Your complaint is basically that magic doesn't exist.  Hardly the fault of SETI, no matter how annoying to us that fact is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason .
Much SETI effort was focused on looking for " carriers " , big constant-frequency RF sources.So 50 years ago when SETI started , and humanity only had the ability to detect radio waves modulated in such a way as to be not naturally created , yet no space telescopes or other technology... What exactly would you have them do ? It 's like handing you a pair of binoculars , and telling you that you suck for only being able to see whats near you , and why the hell are n't you looking hundreds of miles away ? The fact of the matter is , with the technology we had 50 years ago , looking for radio carriers was our only option .
We had no methods to look for the signs we suspected an advanced technological civilization would use .
All we had was radio.Your complaint is basically that magic does n't exist .
Hardly the fault of SETI , no matter how annoying to us that fact is : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been critical of SETI efforts for this reason.
Much SETI effort was focused on looking for "carriers", big constant-frequency RF sources.So 50 years ago when SETI started, and humanity only had the ability to detect radio waves modulated in such a way as to be not naturally created, yet no space telescopes or other technology...  What exactly would you have them do?It's like handing you a pair of binoculars, and telling you that you suck for only being able to see whats near you, and why the hell aren't you looking hundreds of miles away?The fact of the matter is, with the technology we had 50 years ago, looking for radio carriers was our only option.
We had no methods to look for the signs we suspected an advanced technological civilization would use.
All we had was radio.Your complaint is basically that magic doesn't exist.
Hardly the fault of SETI, no matter how annoying to us that fact is :P
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961168</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264855140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</p></div><p>[insert tentacle rape mental image]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons .
[ insert tentacle rape mental image ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.
[insert tentacle rape mental image]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961886</id>
	<title>Re:This is good...</title>
	<author>Xinvoker</author>
	<datestamp>1264864320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But with your radio waves shut down, noone can hear you scream!</htmltext>
<tokenext>But with your radio waves shut down , noone can hear you scream !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But with your radio waves shut down, noone can hear you scream!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963244</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1264874520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's see here.  We've been using radio for a little over a century for communication.  Now we're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we "leak" into space is going to be radically reduced.</p><p>So let's assume that any technologically advanced civilization follows the same route.  There's this narrow window to pick up broadcasts, and then it's over.  A century is nothing in those terms.</p><p>Yes, I realize that part of the expectation is they're going to do some powerful transmissions to be heard, but it's my understanding that we haven't even done that many of those.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's see here .
We 've been using radio for a little over a century for communication .
Now we 're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we " leak " into space is going to be radically reduced.So let 's assume that any technologically advanced civilization follows the same route .
There 's this narrow window to pick up broadcasts , and then it 's over .
A century is nothing in those terms.Yes , I realize that part of the expectation is they 're going to do some powerful transmissions to be heard , but it 's my understanding that we have n't even done that many of those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's see here.
We've been using radio for a little over a century for communication.
Now we're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we "leak" into space is going to be radically reduced.So let's assume that any technologically advanced civilization follows the same route.
There's this narrow window to pick up broadcasts, and then it's over.
A century is nothing in those terms.Yes, I realize that part of the expectation is they're going to do some powerful transmissions to be heard, but it's my understanding that we haven't even done that many of those.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960708</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Exception Duck</author>
	<datestamp>1264847880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>maybe they wouldn't need a big fleet.</p><p>just one virus</p><p>or nanobots - grey goo us all...</p><p>to stop the pink goo*</p><p>*: Pink Goo is mankind. It replicates relatively slowly, but some people think it will nevertheless fill any amount of space given enough time. In the pink goo worldview the spread of humanity is a catastrophe and space exploration opens up the possibility of the entire galaxy or the universe getting filled up with Pink Goo - the ultimate crime, something to be stopped at any cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>maybe they would n't need a big fleet.just one virusor nanobots - grey goo us all...to stop the pink goo * * : Pink Goo is mankind .
It replicates relatively slowly , but some people think it will nevertheless fill any amount of space given enough time .
In the pink goo worldview the spread of humanity is a catastrophe and space exploration opens up the possibility of the entire galaxy or the universe getting filled up with Pink Goo - the ultimate crime , something to be stopped at any cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maybe they wouldn't need a big fleet.just one virusor nanobots - grey goo us all...to stop the pink goo**: Pink Goo is mankind.
It replicates relatively slowly, but some people think it will nevertheless fill any amount of space given enough time.
In the pink goo worldview the spread of humanity is a catastrophe and space exploration opens up the possibility of the entire galaxy or the universe getting filled up with Pink Goo - the ultimate crime, something to be stopped at any cost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30966216</id>
	<title>Re:Correct me if I'm wrong...</title>
	<author>Green Salad</author>
	<datestamp>1264852140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, if we just stopped being silly and would just build an intergalactic Pringles canantenna...</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pringles\_cantenna" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pringles\_cantenna</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if we just stopped being silly and would just build an intergalactic Pringles canantenna...http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pringles \ _cantenna [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if we just stopped being silly and would just build an intergalactic Pringles canantenna...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pringles\_cantenna [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961130</id>
	<title>So what's wrong about that?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264854600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why does people complain when we finally reduced our electromagnetic pollution of the Universe?</p><p>Would someone please think of the ALIENS!?!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does people complain when we finally reduced our electromagnetic pollution of the Universe ? Would someone please think of the ALIENS ! ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does people complain when we finally reduced our electromagnetic pollution of the Universe?Would someone please think of the ALIENS!?!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962016</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264865460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No. That is all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
That is all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
That is all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964306</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>h00manist</author>
	<datestamp>1264880760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology. </p></div><p>Well we do have technology advanced enough to overcome most of our issues, but mostly misused, we are stopped from going anywhere mostly by our own political and economic interests, or rather, lack of human civilization advancement.   Technology will apparently eventually produce a more advanced civilization, but it's a hell of a tortuous route.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology .
Well we do have technology advanced enough to overcome most of our issues , but mostly misused , we are stopped from going anywhere mostly by our own political and economic interests , or rather , lack of human civilization advancement .
Technology will apparently eventually produce a more advanced civilization , but it 's a hell of a tortuous route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology.
Well we do have technology advanced enough to overcome most of our issues, but mostly misused, we are stopped from going anywhere mostly by our own political and economic interests, or rather, lack of human civilization advancement.
Technology will apparently eventually produce a more advanced civilization, but it's a hell of a tortuous route.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960704</id>
	<title>I dont think SETI will work either way</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264847820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Two problems with SETI, one realistic, one hypothetical.</p><p>One, it's based one earth, Earth is noisy as hell, almost 90\% of the signals that SETI picks up are terrestrial. The rest are cosmic objects, or our own satellites in orbit.</p><p>Two, space is noisy, trillions upon trillions of stars, all are producing massive amounts of energy and radio waves, most of those come in relatively faint, now consider the average radio signal created on earth, even the most powerful one. Do you think amongst all that noise, once the radio signals leave the electromagnetic bubble created by the sun, that they're even significant amongst the onslaught of random radio waves? We will find out what happens when an earth based object leaves the bubble here in a few short years as the first few probes (Voyager, Pioneer, etc) venture beyond the bow shock. If we lose contact, we'll come to the sobering reality that no one can probably hear us, and vice versa. Only the most powerful signals, which come from stars, get through. Of course I'm not an astrophysicist, so I cant say this is the fact, but just knowing that a powerful radio source will trump a lower powered radio source here on earth, I'm pretty sure the same applies to the vacuum of space, even moreso due to a lack of air and water in the vast majority of space that would inhibit most signals, creating a mishmash of radio noise, on top of celestial objects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two problems with SETI , one realistic , one hypothetical.One , it 's based one earth , Earth is noisy as hell , almost 90 \ % of the signals that SETI picks up are terrestrial .
The rest are cosmic objects , or our own satellites in orbit.Two , space is noisy , trillions upon trillions of stars , all are producing massive amounts of energy and radio waves , most of those come in relatively faint , now consider the average radio signal created on earth , even the most powerful one .
Do you think amongst all that noise , once the radio signals leave the electromagnetic bubble created by the sun , that they 're even significant amongst the onslaught of random radio waves ?
We will find out what happens when an earth based object leaves the bubble here in a few short years as the first few probes ( Voyager , Pioneer , etc ) venture beyond the bow shock .
If we lose contact , we 'll come to the sobering reality that no one can probably hear us , and vice versa .
Only the most powerful signals , which come from stars , get through .
Of course I 'm not an astrophysicist , so I cant say this is the fact , but just knowing that a powerful radio source will trump a lower powered radio source here on earth , I 'm pretty sure the same applies to the vacuum of space , even moreso due to a lack of air and water in the vast majority of space that would inhibit most signals , creating a mishmash of radio noise , on top of celestial objects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two problems with SETI, one realistic, one hypothetical.One, it's based one earth, Earth is noisy as hell, almost 90\% of the signals that SETI picks up are terrestrial.
The rest are cosmic objects, or our own satellites in orbit.Two, space is noisy, trillions upon trillions of stars, all are producing massive amounts of energy and radio waves, most of those come in relatively faint, now consider the average radio signal created on earth, even the most powerful one.
Do you think amongst all that noise, once the radio signals leave the electromagnetic bubble created by the sun, that they're even significant amongst the onslaught of random radio waves?
We will find out what happens when an earth based object leaves the bubble here in a few short years as the first few probes (Voyager, Pioneer, etc) venture beyond the bow shock.
If we lose contact, we'll come to the sobering reality that no one can probably hear us, and vice versa.
Only the most powerful signals, which come from stars, get through.
Of course I'm not an astrophysicist, so I cant say this is the fact, but just knowing that a powerful radio source will trump a lower powered radio source here on earth, I'm pretty sure the same applies to the vacuum of space, even moreso due to a lack of air and water in the vast majority of space that would inhibit most signals, creating a mishmash of radio noise, on top of celestial objects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961324</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264857300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, it's not. A huge energy source is quite fine as long as you have the raw elements needed to make breathable air, tyvm.
<br> <br>- fractoid (who has mod points)</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's not .
A huge energy source is quite fine as long as you have the raw elements needed to make breathable air , tyvm .
- fractoid ( who has mod points )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's not.
A huge energy source is quite fine as long as you have the raw elements needed to make breathable air, tyvm.
- fractoid (who has mod points)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30977142</id>
	<title>I have a theory...</title>
	<author>cavebison</author>
	<datestamp>1264957260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apart from the one about dinosaurs.</p><p>Call this the Over 40's Relationship Theory of First Contact. In this theory, the term "advanced civilisation" refers to one which is over the self-important, self-destructive, self-unaware phase, having achieved relative peace, equity and opportunity for all its citizens.</p><p>Would such a civilisation bother responding to radio waves from a world such as ours? I imagine their response would be: sure, you can go all night, but the conversation sucks. No, I imagine they'd bookmark us for later, and keep on looking.</p><p>For one thing is certain - if there's more than one intelligent species out there, there will be many more. So what's so special about us, in this point in our history, if any species out there is advanced enough to directly contact us?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apart from the one about dinosaurs.Call this the Over 40 's Relationship Theory of First Contact .
In this theory , the term " advanced civilisation " refers to one which is over the self-important , self-destructive , self-unaware phase , having achieved relative peace , equity and opportunity for all its citizens.Would such a civilisation bother responding to radio waves from a world such as ours ?
I imagine their response would be : sure , you can go all night , but the conversation sucks .
No , I imagine they 'd bookmark us for later , and keep on looking.For one thing is certain - if there 's more than one intelligent species out there , there will be many more .
So what 's so special about us , in this point in our history , if any species out there is advanced enough to directly contact us ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apart from the one about dinosaurs.Call this the Over 40's Relationship Theory of First Contact.
In this theory, the term "advanced civilisation" refers to one which is over the self-important, self-destructive, self-unaware phase, having achieved relative peace, equity and opportunity for all its citizens.Would such a civilisation bother responding to radio waves from a world such as ours?
I imagine their response would be: sure, you can go all night, but the conversation sucks.
No, I imagine they'd bookmark us for later, and keep on looking.For one thing is certain - if there's more than one intelligent species out there, there will be many more.
So what's so special about us, in this point in our history, if any species out there is advanced enough to directly contact us?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963348</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>Dr. Spork</author>
	<datestamp>1264875240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just how cheap is it though, really? I once tried to run SETI@home on my computers, and my power bill (and thus also CO2 emissions) went up noticeably. When I though about all the thousands of people who are making this sacrifice, it didn't really seem so small anymore. It seems much better to donate that money to poverty relief.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just how cheap is it though , really ?
I once tried to run SETI @ home on my computers , and my power bill ( and thus also CO2 emissions ) went up noticeably .
When I though about all the thousands of people who are making this sacrifice , it did n't really seem so small anymore .
It seems much better to donate that money to poverty relief .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just how cheap is it though, really?
I once tried to run SETI@home on my computers, and my power bill (and thus also CO2 emissions) went up noticeably.
When I though about all the thousands of people who are making this sacrifice, it didn't really seem so small anymore.
It seems much better to donate that money to poverty relief.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960580</id>
	<title>Don't you worry...</title>
	<author>UnFaNa</author>
	<datestamp>1264845180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't you worry! With technologies advancing and our "social skills" improving, we'll have figured out how to turn our planet into a giant cloud of rapidly expanding burning gas - or something like that - in no time. Everybody in the galaxy will be able to see us<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you worry !
With technologies advancing and our " social skills " improving , we 'll have figured out how to turn our planet into a giant cloud of rapidly expanding burning gas - or something like that - in no time .
Everybody in the galaxy will be able to see us ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you worry!
With technologies advancing and our "social skills" improving, we'll have figured out how to turn our planet into a giant cloud of rapidly expanding burning gas - or something like that - in no time.
Everybody in the galaxy will be able to see us ;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960368</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264842120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology.</p></div><p>I'm sure the Native Americans that occupied North America would have thought that about the Europeans, too.</p><p>It is really hard to make any assumptions about why aliens might show up on our doorstep.  There are logical explanations for why a peaceful, curious society would make the journey, but there are equally logical explanations for a hostile society.  Certainly, the ability to develop long distance space travel means that a society has a high level of organization and cooperation.  But we have seen that here on earth with both the United States and Nazi Germany.  We also know that military conflict can be a great motivator to developing some kinds of technology, so visitors to earth might arrive in warships.</p><p>The bottom line is we just don't know and no explanation seems any more plausible than any others.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology.I 'm sure the Native Americans that occupied North America would have thought that about the Europeans , too.It is really hard to make any assumptions about why aliens might show up on our doorstep .
There are logical explanations for why a peaceful , curious society would make the journey , but there are equally logical explanations for a hostile society .
Certainly , the ability to develop long distance space travel means that a society has a high level of organization and cooperation .
But we have seen that here on earth with both the United States and Nazi Germany .
We also know that military conflict can be a great motivator to developing some kinds of technology , so visitors to earth might arrive in warships.The bottom line is we just do n't know and no explanation seems any more plausible than any others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine that by the time a civilization has the power to go to another solar system for colonization issues of overcrowding would be overcome by technology.I'm sure the Native Americans that occupied North America would have thought that about the Europeans, too.It is really hard to make any assumptions about why aliens might show up on our doorstep.
There are logical explanations for why a peaceful, curious society would make the journey, but there are equally logical explanations for a hostile society.
Certainly, the ability to develop long distance space travel means that a society has a high level of organization and cooperation.
But we have seen that here on earth with both the United States and Nazi Germany.
We also know that military conflict can be a great motivator to developing some kinds of technology, so visitors to earth might arrive in warships.The bottom line is we just don't know and no explanation seems any more plausible than any others.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962566</id>
	<title>i heard BEEEEEEP...</title>
	<author>InsertWittyNameHere</author>
	<datestamp>1264869960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> (The same thing happened to modems decades ago; at 300 baud, you heard tones; at 9600 baud and up, it sounded like white noise.)
</p></div><p>BEEEEEEP, CHIRP, CHIRP, KTWANG, shhhhhh, SHHHHHHH!!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( The same thing happened to modems decades ago ; at 300 baud , you heard tones ; at 9600 baud and up , it sounded like white noise .
) BEEEEEEP , CHIRP , CHIRP , KTWANG , shhhhhh , SHHHHHHH ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext> (The same thing happened to modems decades ago; at 300 baud, you heard tones; at 9600 baud and up, it sounded like white noise.
)
BEEEEEEP, CHIRP, CHIRP, KTWANG, shhhhhh, SHHHHHHH!!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</id>
	<title>Find US?</title>
	<author>Rammed Earth</author>
	<datestamp>1264884480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?

The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds.

We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races-
either they are truculent and violent like we are, or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy.

We do not wants aliens to find us!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ?
The Native Americans , the Mayans , the Incas , the Australian Aborigines , the tribes of South America , the natives of Pacific Islands , to name a few , all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first , second , and third kinds .
We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races- either they are truculent and violent like we are , or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy .
We do not wants aliens to find us !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?
The Native Americans, the Mayans, the Incas, the Australian Aborigines, the tribes of South America, the natives of Pacific Islands, to name a few, all cry out to humanity to avoid at all costs encounters of the first, second, and third kinds.
We have no reason to expect anything but annihilation from advanced alien races-
either they are truculent and violent like we are, or they will destroy us as a service to the rest of the galaxy.
We do not wants aliens to find us!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30962100</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1264866180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads. Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth. And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.</p></div><p>Just how many aliens do you need in an invasion fleet? Suppose it's a couple of desperate entrepreneurs (perhaps with some genetic material for making more aliens and appropriate machinery) looking to score. It might be two entrepreneurs today and a billion lab-grown alien conquerors a couple of decades from now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads .
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device , the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth .
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device , then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly , without leaving their home.Just how many aliens do you need in an invasion fleet ?
Suppose it 's a couple of desperate entrepreneurs ( perhaps with some genetic material for making more aliens and appropriate machinery ) looking to score .
It might be two entrepreneurs today and a billion lab-grown alien conquerors a couple of decades from now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads.
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.Just how many aliens do you need in an invasion fleet?
Suppose it's a couple of desperate entrepreneurs (perhaps with some genetic material for making more aliens and appropriate machinery) looking to score.
It might be two entrepreneurs today and a billion lab-grown alien conquerors a couple of decades from now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964436</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264881780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The spin orientation isn't information?  When the spin of one entangled particle changes, the spin of it partner instantly changes to match it.  That's enough to "transmit" binary "info".</p><p>cheers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The spin orientation is n't information ?
When the spin of one entangled particle changes , the spin of it partner instantly changes to match it .
That 's enough to " transmit " binary " info " .cheers : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The spin orientation isn't information?
When the spin of one entangled particle changes, the spin of it partner instantly changes to match it.
That's enough to "transmit" binary "info".cheers :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961832</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961022</id>
	<title>Re:That's what's wrong with SETI</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264852560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the real problem with SETI is that by the time we get any signals from alien civilizations, they'll probably already be here.</p><p>All they need is FTL travel! Or some alternative which does the same thing. *cough*tessarects*cough*</p><p>But to bend space we'd at least need to understand exactly how the hell gravity works. Understand gravity --&gt; understand space --&gt; control space --&gt; quasi-FTL travel.</p><p>Speaking of space and gravity, I wonder exactly what the hell is in a black hole. Yes, yes, heavy gravity, singularity, etc, but I'm more interested as to exactly what type of element is formed when you crush countless atoms to infinite density. Elemental weight of infinity?</p><p>Also, I would love a brick of light. I'm sure if you hypercompress light <i>something</i> interesting would occur.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the real problem with SETI is that by the time we get any signals from alien civilizations , they 'll probably already be here.All they need is FTL travel !
Or some alternative which does the same thing .
* cough * tessarects * cough * But to bend space we 'd at least need to understand exactly how the hell gravity works .
Understand gravity -- &gt; understand space -- &gt; control space -- &gt; quasi-FTL travel.Speaking of space and gravity , I wonder exactly what the hell is in a black hole .
Yes , yes , heavy gravity , singularity , etc , but I 'm more interested as to exactly what type of element is formed when you crush countless atoms to infinite density .
Elemental weight of infinity ? Also , I would love a brick of light .
I 'm sure if you hypercompress light something interesting would occur .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the real problem with SETI is that by the time we get any signals from alien civilizations, they'll probably already be here.All they need is FTL travel!
Or some alternative which does the same thing.
*cough*tessarects*cough*But to bend space we'd at least need to understand exactly how the hell gravity works.
Understand gravity --&gt; understand space --&gt; control space --&gt; quasi-FTL travel.Speaking of space and gravity, I wonder exactly what the hell is in a black hole.
Yes, yes, heavy gravity, singularity, etc, but I'm more interested as to exactly what type of element is formed when you crush countless atoms to infinite density.
Elemental weight of infinity?Also, I would love a brick of light.
I'm sure if you hypercompress light something interesting would occur.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964924</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>istartedi</author>
	<datestamp>1264842000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL.  No, really.  Not just saying that.  Made my day.  Keep typing.
Slashdot wants more characters...  like you!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
No , really .
Not just saying that .
Made my day .
Keep typing .
Slashdot wants more characters... like you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
No, really.
Not just saying that.
Made my day.
Keep typing.
Slashdot wants more characters...  like you!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30971200</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264960560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering the fact that we already have some capability of analyzing the composition of the atmospheres of planets that are lightyears away, I'd say that any alien civilization with the capability to visit us, can detect us no matter what we do to hide. I'd even say that a civilization with that capability can probably prepare a suitable habitat for specimens in their labs or zoos...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the fact that we already have some capability of analyzing the composition of the atmospheres of planets that are lightyears away , I 'd say that any alien civilization with the capability to visit us , can detect us no matter what we do to hide .
I 'd even say that a civilization with that capability can probably prepare a suitable habitat for specimens in their labs or zoos.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the fact that we already have some capability of analyzing the composition of the atmospheres of planets that are lightyears away, I'd say that any alien civilization with the capability to visit us, can detect us no matter what we do to hide.
I'd even say that a civilization with that capability can probably prepare a suitable habitat for specimens in their labs or zoos...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</id>
	<title>Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>localman</author>
	<datestamp>1264883880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox.  Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.</p><p>Broadcast is not a great communication strategy.  On-demand point-to-point communication takes over most things.  Advanced civilizations go silent from the outside within a blink of them transmitting their first broadcast signals.  There's no reason to think that we'll ever put serious effort into sending signals into the black given all the other things on our plate.  And there's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.</p><p>Cheers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox .
Well , after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.Broadcast is not a great communication strategy .
On-demand point-to-point communication takes over most things .
Advanced civilizations go silent from the outside within a blink of them transmitting their first broadcast signals .
There 's no reason to think that we 'll ever put serious effort into sending signals into the black given all the other things on our plate .
And there 's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.Cheers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this is a possible answer to the Fermi paradox.
Well, after you accept that interstellar travel is not economically feasible.Broadcast is not a great communication strategy.
On-demand point-to-point communication takes over most things.
Advanced civilizations go silent from the outside within a blink of them transmitting their first broadcast signals.
There's no reason to think that we'll ever put serious effort into sending signals into the black given all the other things on our plate.
And there's no reason to think that any other civilization would have such extra resources either.Cheers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960574</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264845000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Those where technologically inferior civilizations in other aspects we may have been and quite possibly still are inferior.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Those where technologically inferior civilizations in other aspects we may have been and quite possibly still are inferior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those where technologically inferior civilizations in other aspects we may have been and quite possibly still are inferior.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30966116</id>
	<title>I for one, welcome our new peaceful Overlords</title>
	<author>Green Salad</author>
	<datestamp>1264851180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>Considering how the meeting between two civilizations, one more advanced than the other, has generally gone badly for the majority of human history.</i></p> </div><p>I for one, am confident the space alien's relief agency will take a junket to Earth on a fact-finding mission and decide we Earthlings are living in poverty, our old are dying needlessly and we have wars with each other.</p><p>The 1st wave of emergency relief, will arrive in the form of advanced medicines, large quantities of food and clean water, thus destroying the local market for our bio-tech firms, farmers, grocery chains, food manufactures and clean-water engineers.  Student will lose incentive to study things like thermodynamics and would rather jack into the Alien mp7 porno players.</p><p>The 2nd wave of relief will be to beam power, point to point to each building. thus wiping out the local market for power generation and transmission. (No more nasty CO2!  Look at how much help you're being provided!)</p><p>The 3rd wave of relief will arrive in the form of galactic peace-keeping security forces with funny, bright-purple helmets of a highly reflective surface ideal for protecting their heads from advanced beam weapons, which, over a pint of Romulan Ale, the aliens will privately share with us makes it feel like they wearing targets for protection.  They'll ask us "why don't your mal-contents use proper beam weapons instead of the lead-throwing tubes? Our reflective helmets were designed for beam defence and <i>your kind</i> just ruins these advanced systems."</p><p>A 4th wave of relief will come in the form of briefcase carrying, champaign-sipping representatives of the Galactic Bank.  They'll tisk-tisk at how dependent we've become on foreign galactic aid, roll their eyes and moan "When will these poor earthlings <i>ever</i> become self-sustaining?"</p><p>Earthlings will want to buy the advanced alien mp7 porno players and gizmos upgrades, but will have only paper-backed currency and not the gold-pressed latinum the rest of the civilized universe uses.</p><p>As a solution, the Ferengi delegation to the Galactic Poverty Relief Bank will lobby to offer our politicians access to EZ credit...secured by the planet.</p><p>Perhaps, if we just held the Planetary Deed...we could generously increase your government's credit line.</p><p>Sure, it may sound scary, but it will be okay, because our confident-sounding politicians will promise us "change."</p><p>They'll tell us that "they have a plan" and will work tirelessly to "restructure the global economy to be competitive in the galactic economy" and will borrow the money to get it done quickly.  There is no time for debate.  They'll publicly promise that the borrowed gold-pressed latinum will absolutely be spent wisely.  Unlike every other time we've promised that...this time, we really-really mean it!</p><p>They'll promise "complete transparency" when making legislative sausage.   They'll promise the economy won't be re-structured behind closed door sessions with the Ferengi lobby.   All elected officials thinking of funding their next campaign, they just <i>loath lobbyists</i>and will work tirelessly with them to reduce their influence.  Also, if you still like your paper-backed earth currency...in a way, it could be said that you'll be allowed to keep it.  After all, the leaders say they can always borrow more gold-pressed latinum to print more paper currency.  They'll just quietly hold more frequent bond auctions to raise the cash needed to meet the required down payment to borrow the gold-pressed latinum to spend on the influential and growing slashdot group known as "I for one, welcome our new peaceful and generous Overlords."</p><p>I'm not cranky...I'm just drawn out that way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering how the meeting between two civilizations , one more advanced than the other , has generally gone badly for the majority of human history .
I for one , am confident the space alien 's relief agency will take a junket to Earth on a fact-finding mission and decide we Earthlings are living in poverty , our old are dying needlessly and we have wars with each other.The 1st wave of emergency relief , will arrive in the form of advanced medicines , large quantities of food and clean water , thus destroying the local market for our bio-tech firms , farmers , grocery chains , food manufactures and clean-water engineers .
Student will lose incentive to study things like thermodynamics and would rather jack into the Alien mp7 porno players.The 2nd wave of relief will be to beam power , point to point to each building .
thus wiping out the local market for power generation and transmission .
( No more nasty CO2 !
Look at how much help you 're being provided !
) The 3rd wave of relief will arrive in the form of galactic peace-keeping security forces with funny , bright-purple helmets of a highly reflective surface ideal for protecting their heads from advanced beam weapons , which , over a pint of Romulan Ale , the aliens will privately share with us makes it feel like they wearing targets for protection .
They 'll ask us " why do n't your mal-contents use proper beam weapons instead of the lead-throwing tubes ?
Our reflective helmets were designed for beam defence and your kind just ruins these advanced systems .
" A 4th wave of relief will come in the form of briefcase carrying , champaign-sipping representatives of the Galactic Bank .
They 'll tisk-tisk at how dependent we 've become on foreign galactic aid , roll their eyes and moan " When will these poor earthlings ever become self-sustaining ?
" Earthlings will want to buy the advanced alien mp7 porno players and gizmos upgrades , but will have only paper-backed currency and not the gold-pressed latinum the rest of the civilized universe uses.As a solution , the Ferengi delegation to the Galactic Poverty Relief Bank will lobby to offer our politicians access to EZ credit...secured by the planet.Perhaps , if we just held the Planetary Deed...we could generously increase your government 's credit line.Sure , it may sound scary , but it will be okay , because our confident-sounding politicians will promise us " change .
" They 'll tell us that " they have a plan " and will work tirelessly to " restructure the global economy to be competitive in the galactic economy " and will borrow the money to get it done quickly .
There is no time for debate .
They 'll publicly promise that the borrowed gold-pressed latinum will absolutely be spent wisely .
Unlike every other time we 've promised that...this time , we really-really mean it ! They 'll promise " complete transparency " when making legislative sausage .
They 'll promise the economy wo n't be re-structured behind closed door sessions with the Ferengi lobby .
All elected officials thinking of funding their next campaign , they just loath lobbyistsand will work tirelessly with them to reduce their influence .
Also , if you still like your paper-backed earth currency...in a way , it could be said that you 'll be allowed to keep it .
After all , the leaders say they can always borrow more gold-pressed latinum to print more paper currency .
They 'll just quietly hold more frequent bond auctions to raise the cash needed to meet the required down payment to borrow the gold-pressed latinum to spend on the influential and growing slashdot group known as " I for one , welcome our new peaceful and generous Overlords .
" I 'm not cranky...I 'm just drawn out that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Considering how the meeting between two civilizations, one more advanced than the other, has generally gone badly for the majority of human history.
I for one, am confident the space alien's relief agency will take a junket to Earth on a fact-finding mission and decide we Earthlings are living in poverty, our old are dying needlessly and we have wars with each other.The 1st wave of emergency relief, will arrive in the form of advanced medicines, large quantities of food and clean water, thus destroying the local market for our bio-tech firms, farmers, grocery chains, food manufactures and clean-water engineers.
Student will lose incentive to study things like thermodynamics and would rather jack into the Alien mp7 porno players.The 2nd wave of relief will be to beam power, point to point to each building.
thus wiping out the local market for power generation and transmission.
(No more nasty CO2!
Look at how much help you're being provided!
)The 3rd wave of relief will arrive in the form of galactic peace-keeping security forces with funny, bright-purple helmets of a highly reflective surface ideal for protecting their heads from advanced beam weapons, which, over a pint of Romulan Ale, the aliens will privately share with us makes it feel like they wearing targets for protection.
They'll ask us "why don't your mal-contents use proper beam weapons instead of the lead-throwing tubes?
Our reflective helmets were designed for beam defence and your kind just ruins these advanced systems.
"A 4th wave of relief will come in the form of briefcase carrying, champaign-sipping representatives of the Galactic Bank.
They'll tisk-tisk at how dependent we've become on foreign galactic aid, roll their eyes and moan "When will these poor earthlings ever become self-sustaining?
"Earthlings will want to buy the advanced alien mp7 porno players and gizmos upgrades, but will have only paper-backed currency and not the gold-pressed latinum the rest of the civilized universe uses.As a solution, the Ferengi delegation to the Galactic Poverty Relief Bank will lobby to offer our politicians access to EZ credit...secured by the planet.Perhaps, if we just held the Planetary Deed...we could generously increase your government's credit line.Sure, it may sound scary, but it will be okay, because our confident-sounding politicians will promise us "change.
"They'll tell us that "they have a plan" and will work tirelessly to "restructure the global economy to be competitive in the galactic economy" and will borrow the money to get it done quickly.
There is no time for debate.
They'll publicly promise that the borrowed gold-pressed latinum will absolutely be spent wisely.
Unlike every other time we've promised that...this time, we really-really mean it!They'll promise "complete transparency" when making legislative sausage.
They'll promise the economy won't be re-structured behind closed door sessions with the Ferengi lobby.
All elected officials thinking of funding their next campaign, they just loath lobbyistsand will work tirelessly with them to reduce their influence.
Also, if you still like your paper-backed earth currency...in a way, it could be said that you'll be allowed to keep it.
After all, the leaders say they can always borrow more gold-pressed latinum to print more paper currency.
They'll just quietly hold more frequent bond auctions to raise the cash needed to meet the required down payment to borrow the gold-pressed latinum to spend on the influential and growing slashdot group known as "I for one, welcome our new peaceful and generous Overlords.
"I'm not cranky...I'm just drawn out that way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960312</id>
	<title>Re:This has its perks</title>
	<author>Jeremi</author>
	<datestamp>1264884840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>[Aliens] might have the technology and desire to invade earth.</i></p><p>Not if they have any economic sense in their heads.  Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.  And if they <i>do</i> have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.</p><p>So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ Aliens ] might have the technology and desire to invade earth.Not if they have any economic sense in their heads .
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device , the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth .
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device , then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly , without leaving their home.So if aliens invade , it will be for solely their own entertainment , not for economic reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[Aliens] might have the technology and desire to invade earth.Not if they have any economic sense in their heads.
Unless the aliens have some sort of magic infinite energy source or teleportation device, the cost of transporting an invasion fleet to another solar system would be orders of magnitude higher than the value of anything they could possibly gain from Earth.
And if they do have an infinite energy source or teleportation device, then they could use those inventions to provide for their needs directly, without leaving their home.So if aliens invade, it will be for solely their own entertainment, not for economic reasons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960380</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>AmigaMMC</author>
	<datestamp>1264842180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good! Less Covenant ships to worry about</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good !
Less Covenant ships to worry about</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good!
Less Covenant ships to worry about</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960982</id>
	<title>Re:Fermi Paradox</title>
	<author>cyber-vandal</author>
	<datestamp>1264852080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do we know aliens will be using radio waves to communicate?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do we know aliens will be using radio waves to communicate ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do we know aliens will be using radio waves to communicate?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961408</id>
	<title>In another galaxy... sentients are wondering...</title>
	<author>garompeta</author>
	<datestamp>1264858800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>In another galaxy, a frustrated physics professor is in charge in a project equivalent to SETI</b>:

<p>"Stultz, I wonder if there is actually life out there. We've been centuries monitoring the neno-kurflichsk time-fabric disturbance detector that any technologically advanced civilization should be sending out if...if... they sentients do exist. I mean, it is third grade stuff, anybody knows that time-fabric can be disturbed instantly, we keep doing it simultaneously to all the atoms of the universe, and still nothing for CENTURIES. Can you believe it?"<br>
"Professor, I wonder... I have this crazy idea... maybe other other advanced civilizations use... radiowaves?"<br>
"Stultz, you are an idiot or what?"<br>
"I...I am just saying, maybe some less advanced civilizations..."<br>
"Pluuhlease, that is enough! Are you serious? You should go back to elementary school. Have you forgot that radiowaves travel at the speed of light??, it is more than obvious that it is not the most convenient way to communicate with other civilizations... unless you want to wait another lifetime to send your response, and to where should we point the antennas, huh?. Have you forgot that we are talking about ASTRONOMICAL DISTANCES??
It would take centuries! Or even worse, those electromagnetic waves would be absorbed by black holes, bounced, even hit by the breshanistok matter! We would get nothing or everything scrambled, indistinguishable from white noise! Your question is simply retarded. We are trying to contact sentients, not idiots!"

</p><p>And professor Breshanistok stood up upset and the graduate student Stultz watched the glowing monitoring holoscreen scratching his head.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In another galaxy , a frustrated physics professor is in charge in a project equivalent to SETI : " Stultz , I wonder if there is actually life out there .
We 've been centuries monitoring the neno-kurflichsk time-fabric disturbance detector that any technologically advanced civilization should be sending out if...if... they sentients do exist .
I mean , it is third grade stuff , anybody knows that time-fabric can be disturbed instantly , we keep doing it simultaneously to all the atoms of the universe , and still nothing for CENTURIES .
Can you believe it ?
" " Professor , I wonder... I have this crazy idea... maybe other other advanced civilizations use.. .
radiowaves ? " " Stultz , you are an idiot or what ?
" " I...I am just saying , maybe some less advanced civilizations... " " Pluuhlease , that is enough !
Are you serious ?
You should go back to elementary school .
Have you forgot that radiowaves travel at the speed of light ?
? , it is more than obvious that it is not the most convenient way to communicate with other civilizations... unless you want to wait another lifetime to send your response , and to where should we point the antennas , huh ? .
Have you forgot that we are talking about ASTRONOMICAL DISTANCES ? ?
It would take centuries !
Or even worse , those electromagnetic waves would be absorbed by black holes , bounced , even hit by the breshanistok matter !
We would get nothing or everything scrambled , indistinguishable from white noise !
Your question is simply retarded .
We are trying to contact sentients , not idiots !
" And professor Breshanistok stood up upset and the graduate student Stultz watched the glowing monitoring holoscreen scratching his head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In another galaxy, a frustrated physics professor is in charge in a project equivalent to SETI:

"Stultz, I wonder if there is actually life out there.
We've been centuries monitoring the neno-kurflichsk time-fabric disturbance detector that any technologically advanced civilization should be sending out if...if... they sentients do exist.
I mean, it is third grade stuff, anybody knows that time-fabric can be disturbed instantly, we keep doing it simultaneously to all the atoms of the universe, and still nothing for CENTURIES.
Can you believe it?
"
"Professor, I wonder... I have this crazy idea... maybe other other advanced civilizations use...
radiowaves?"
"Stultz, you are an idiot or what?
"
"I...I am just saying, maybe some less advanced civilizations..."
"Pluuhlease, that is enough!
Are you serious?
You should go back to elementary school.
Have you forgot that radiowaves travel at the speed of light?
?, it is more than obvious that it is not the most convenient way to communicate with other civilizations... unless you want to wait another lifetime to send your response, and to where should we point the antennas, huh?.
Have you forgot that we are talking about ASTRONOMICAL DISTANCES??
It would take centuries!
Or even worse, those electromagnetic waves would be absorbed by black holes, bounced, even hit by the breshanistok matter!
We would get nothing or everything scrambled, indistinguishable from white noise!
Your question is simply retarded.
We are trying to contact sentients, not idiots!
"

And professor Breshanistok stood up upset and the graduate student Stultz watched the glowing monitoring holoscreen scratching his head.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960650</id>
	<title>Silly humans...</title>
	<author>Tolvor</author>
	<datestamp>1264846440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Silly humans... You shouldn't worry about whether other civilizations in distant star systems will detect your weak radio-spectrum emissions. That's isn't what we are scanning for in our extra-solar search.</p><p>In the beginning you humans signaled with visual signals - for example hand gestures, light houses, national flags, and road-side billboards. These are great but have very limited range.</p><p>Later you developed audio signaling for example speech, alarms, and air-raid horns. It has much further range and carries far more information, but degrades far more quickly over time.</p><p>Still later you developed electrical signaling devices, like the telegraph and early 1900's era telephone wire. You could finally transmit information over a long distance.</p><p>Later still your planet turned to the EM-band of communications. This included radio, television, radar, and a vast number of wireless devices. Your airwaves were crammed full of radio emissions leaking from your planet. Understand, these emission would barely be a carrier signal at 40 light years, and at 4000 light years would be a statistical anomaly on the EM band.</p><p>Later still you went digital and worried that people distant space civilization wouldn't hear you. Distant civilizations listen for EM band traffic. As stated, it's too hard.</p><p>If you continue to progress you will discover Distant Quantum Stimulation (the first step to efficient energy transmission). This *will* emit very strong EM-band emissions to space and is usually the sign of an emerging intelligence.</p><p>Later still will come high-energy Quantum Split-pair Sympathetic Signaling Systems (QS^4). This will come about to overcome the vast light-speed time delay in signaling between distant planetary bodies. However in using this there is sympathetic movement by unrelated quantum-bits in other solar systems. Some of those have intelligent life that will take notice.</p><p>Much much later, when you really start needing energy you will turn to Solar Photosphere Mining. This can either be "light" mining with light lenses and hot-cold energy channels (mega-batteries), or "heavy" mining like what you Earthlings call Dyson Spheres. Needless to say this significantly alters your star's appearance and can easily be seen at a distance.</p><p>In the far distant future you may discover the uses of dark matter - after all it *does* make up the vast majority of the universe. You really should know that there are ways that it can be used. It has vast potential. However any alternation and modification of the great web that is dark matter can be detected far far away. Civilization far and wide will be able to detect such an occurrence and celebrate with the graduating stellar system it's true achievement.</p><p>From here vast vistas await. There is no point in detailing them because there will be no point in searching for intelligence beyond your planet. This is because in improving your technology you also improve your capabilities. As you use those techniques more and better means of seeing further and understanding more become available.</p><p>There is no use at the lamating of an obsolete technology. To do so is to lament the passing of coastal semaphore stations and bonfire posts to warn of impending raids by Viking longboats. Your planet does not spend much energy in trying to detect such now-questionable methods of communication. Similarly other galactic civilizations do not spend much time or energy scanning for EM-band radiation.</p><p>Silly humans with their Very Large Arrays...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Silly humans... You should n't worry about whether other civilizations in distant star systems will detect your weak radio-spectrum emissions .
That 's is n't what we are scanning for in our extra-solar search.In the beginning you humans signaled with visual signals - for example hand gestures , light houses , national flags , and road-side billboards .
These are great but have very limited range.Later you developed audio signaling for example speech , alarms , and air-raid horns .
It has much further range and carries far more information , but degrades far more quickly over time.Still later you developed electrical signaling devices , like the telegraph and early 1900 's era telephone wire .
You could finally transmit information over a long distance.Later still your planet turned to the EM-band of communications .
This included radio , television , radar , and a vast number of wireless devices .
Your airwaves were crammed full of radio emissions leaking from your planet .
Understand , these emission would barely be a carrier signal at 40 light years , and at 4000 light years would be a statistical anomaly on the EM band.Later still you went digital and worried that people distant space civilization would n't hear you .
Distant civilizations listen for EM band traffic .
As stated , it 's too hard.If you continue to progress you will discover Distant Quantum Stimulation ( the first step to efficient energy transmission ) .
This * will * emit very strong EM-band emissions to space and is usually the sign of an emerging intelligence.Later still will come high-energy Quantum Split-pair Sympathetic Signaling Systems ( QS ^ 4 ) .
This will come about to overcome the vast light-speed time delay in signaling between distant planetary bodies .
However in using this there is sympathetic movement by unrelated quantum-bits in other solar systems .
Some of those have intelligent life that will take notice.Much much later , when you really start needing energy you will turn to Solar Photosphere Mining .
This can either be " light " mining with light lenses and hot-cold energy channels ( mega-batteries ) , or " heavy " mining like what you Earthlings call Dyson Spheres .
Needless to say this significantly alters your star 's appearance and can easily be seen at a distance.In the far distant future you may discover the uses of dark matter - after all it * does * make up the vast majority of the universe .
You really should know that there are ways that it can be used .
It has vast potential .
However any alternation and modification of the great web that is dark matter can be detected far far away .
Civilization far and wide will be able to detect such an occurrence and celebrate with the graduating stellar system it 's true achievement.From here vast vistas await .
There is no point in detailing them because there will be no point in searching for intelligence beyond your planet .
This is because in improving your technology you also improve your capabilities .
As you use those techniques more and better means of seeing further and understanding more become available.There is no use at the lamating of an obsolete technology .
To do so is to lament the passing of coastal semaphore stations and bonfire posts to warn of impending raids by Viking longboats .
Your planet does not spend much energy in trying to detect such now-questionable methods of communication .
Similarly other galactic civilizations do not spend much time or energy scanning for EM-band radiation.Silly humans with their Very Large Arrays.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Silly humans... You shouldn't worry about whether other civilizations in distant star systems will detect your weak radio-spectrum emissions.
That's isn't what we are scanning for in our extra-solar search.In the beginning you humans signaled with visual signals - for example hand gestures, light houses, national flags, and road-side billboards.
These are great but have very limited range.Later you developed audio signaling for example speech, alarms, and air-raid horns.
It has much further range and carries far more information, but degrades far more quickly over time.Still later you developed electrical signaling devices, like the telegraph and early 1900's era telephone wire.
You could finally transmit information over a long distance.Later still your planet turned to the EM-band of communications.
This included radio, television, radar, and a vast number of wireless devices.
Your airwaves were crammed full of radio emissions leaking from your planet.
Understand, these emission would barely be a carrier signal at 40 light years, and at 4000 light years would be a statistical anomaly on the EM band.Later still you went digital and worried that people distant space civilization wouldn't hear you.
Distant civilizations listen for EM band traffic.
As stated, it's too hard.If you continue to progress you will discover Distant Quantum Stimulation (the first step to efficient energy transmission).
This *will* emit very strong EM-band emissions to space and is usually the sign of an emerging intelligence.Later still will come high-energy Quantum Split-pair Sympathetic Signaling Systems (QS^4).
This will come about to overcome the vast light-speed time delay in signaling between distant planetary bodies.
However in using this there is sympathetic movement by unrelated quantum-bits in other solar systems.
Some of those have intelligent life that will take notice.Much much later, when you really start needing energy you will turn to Solar Photosphere Mining.
This can either be "light" mining with light lenses and hot-cold energy channels (mega-batteries), or "heavy" mining like what you Earthlings call Dyson Spheres.
Needless to say this significantly alters your star's appearance and can easily be seen at a distance.In the far distant future you may discover the uses of dark matter - after all it *does* make up the vast majority of the universe.
You really should know that there are ways that it can be used.
It has vast potential.
However any alternation and modification of the great web that is dark matter can be detected far far away.
Civilization far and wide will be able to detect such an occurrence and celebrate with the graduating stellar system it's true achievement.From here vast vistas await.
There is no point in detailing them because there will be no point in searching for intelligence beyond your planet.
This is because in improving your technology you also improve your capabilities.
As you use those techniques more and better means of seeing further and understanding more become available.There is no use at the lamating of an obsolete technology.
To do so is to lament the passing of coastal semaphore stations and bonfire posts to warn of impending raids by Viking longboats.
Your planet does not spend much energy in trying to detect such now-questionable methods of communication.
Similarly other galactic civilizations do not spend much time or energy scanning for EM-band radiation.Silly humans with their Very Large Arrays...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960484</id>
	<title>Ignores other sources</title>
	<author>bertok</author>
	<datestamp>1264843620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't believe this came from educated scientists.</p><p>Our communications signals are getting weaker, sure, but we still have other sources of clearly artificial radiation that are just as powerful as before. For example, military and weather radar. We regularly send out radar pusles powerful enough to compute the range to other <i>planets</i> in the solar system. Similarly, the Deep Space Network sends out powerful signals on various frequencies using highly directional beams when communicating with space probes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe this came from educated scientists.Our communications signals are getting weaker , sure , but we still have other sources of clearly artificial radiation that are just as powerful as before .
For example , military and weather radar .
We regularly send out radar pusles powerful enough to compute the range to other planets in the solar system .
Similarly , the Deep Space Network sends out powerful signals on various frequencies using highly directional beams when communicating with space probes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe this came from educated scientists.Our communications signals are getting weaker, sure, but we still have other sources of clearly artificial radiation that are just as powerful as before.
For example, military and weather radar.
We regularly send out radar pusles powerful enough to compute the range to other planets in the solar system.
Similarly, the Deep Space Network sends out powerful signals on various frequencies using highly directional beams when communicating with space probes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30966970</id>
	<title>Re:Not news</title>
	<author>tftp</author>
	<datestamp>1264859280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>We've been using radio for a little over a century for communication. Now we're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we "leak" into space is going to be radically reduced.</i>
</p><p>
Leakage into space is waste. As the civilization matures it finds ways to minimize waste. That's why we use antennas that have carefully shaped diagrams, frequencies and modulations that carry maximum information, and just enough power to ensure reliable communication. This is partly driven by the fact that our cell phones don't have much power. And majority of our long-haul communications are done in wire (or glass.) What wireless channels we still have, they are mostly microwave links to and from satellites, very wideband, using high gain / narrow beam antennas, and again using just enough power for reliable communication. If we want we can have radios (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-sequence\_spread\_spectrum" title="wikipedia.org">DSSS</a> [wikipedia.org]) with signals that are completely buried in the noise, and that can be only received by another radio of the same type and using the same code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 've been using radio for a little over a century for communication .
Now we 're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we " leak " into space is going to be radically reduced .
Leakage into space is waste .
As the civilization matures it finds ways to minimize waste .
That 's why we use antennas that have carefully shaped diagrams , frequencies and modulations that carry maximum information , and just enough power to ensure reliable communication .
This is partly driven by the fact that our cell phones do n't have much power .
And majority of our long-haul communications are done in wire ( or glass .
) What wireless channels we still have , they are mostly microwave links to and from satellites , very wideband , using high gain / narrow beam antennas , and again using just enough power for reliable communication .
If we want we can have radios ( DSSS [ wikipedia.org ] ) with signals that are completely buried in the noise , and that can be only received by another radio of the same type and using the same code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> We've been using radio for a little over a century for communication.
Now we're quickly reaching the point where the use of low-power devices means what we "leak" into space is going to be radically reduced.
Leakage into space is waste.
As the civilization matures it finds ways to minimize waste.
That's why we use antennas that have carefully shaped diagrams, frequencies and modulations that carry maximum information, and just enough power to ensure reliable communication.
This is partly driven by the fact that our cell phones don't have much power.
And majority of our long-haul communications are done in wire (or glass.
) What wireless channels we still have, they are mostly microwave links to and from satellites, very wideband, using high gain / narrow beam antennas, and again using just enough power for reliable communication.
If we want we can have radios (DSSS [wikipedia.org]) with signals that are completely buried in the noise, and that can be only received by another radio of the same type and using the same code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30963244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961234</id>
	<title>The Drake Equation</title>
	<author>Exitar</author>
	<datestamp>1264856220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Currently gives the number of civilization with which is possible a contact equal to 2.31.<br>This assume the parameter L (the expected lifetime of such a civilization for the period that it can communicate across interstellar space) equal to 10000.<br>If now L has a value of 100 instead, the the number of civilization with which is possible a contact would be 0.0231.</p><p>Time to move the funds from SETI to something that has a greater chance of producing results maybe?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Currently gives the number of civilization with which is possible a contact equal to 2.31.This assume the parameter L ( the expected lifetime of such a civilization for the period that it can communicate across interstellar space ) equal to 10000.If now L has a value of 100 instead , the the number of civilization with which is possible a contact would be 0.0231.Time to move the funds from SETI to something that has a greater chance of producing results maybe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Currently gives the number of civilization with which is possible a contact equal to 2.31.This assume the parameter L (the expected lifetime of such a civilization for the period that it can communicate across interstellar space) equal to 10000.If now L has a value of 100 instead, the the number of civilization with which is possible a contact would be 0.0231.Time to move the funds from SETI to something that has a greater chance of producing results maybe?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960760</id>
	<title>Re:Find US?</title>
	<author>pydev</author>
	<datestamp>1264848720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?</i></p><p>That analogy doesn't work.  Among other things, aliens can't mate with us and they're probably not going to carry pathogens that can infect us, and those two factors strongly influenced the outcome of European colonization.</p><p>(Like Europeans, aliens may be religious nuts bent on destroying our religion and replacing it with their own, but that seems somewhat unlikely.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones ? That analogy does n't work .
Among other things , aliens ca n't mate with us and they 're probably not going to carry pathogens that can infect us , and those two factors strongly influenced the outcome of European colonization .
( Like Europeans , aliens may be religious nuts bent on destroying our religion and replacing it with their own , but that seems somewhat unlikely .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the historical evidence of what happens when superior civilizations encounter lesser ones?That analogy doesn't work.
Among other things, aliens can't mate with us and they're probably not going to carry pathogens that can infect us, and those two factors strongly influenced the outcome of European colonization.
(Like Europeans, aliens may be religious nuts bent on destroying our religion and replacing it with their own, but that seems somewhat unlikely.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961152</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Dr.Syshalt</author>
	<datestamp>1264854960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably from the POV of even more advanced civilization radio is too archaic (like smoke signals for us) and for interstellar communications they use something we just didn't discover yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably from the POV of even more advanced civilization radio is too archaic ( like smoke signals for us ) and for interstellar communications they use something we just did n't discover yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably from the POV of even more advanced civilization radio is too archaic (like smoke signals for us) and for interstellar communications they use something we just didn't discover yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30964404</id>
	<title>Better to listen rather than be heard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264881540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would prefer that we get the choice on who/what to pursue contact with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would prefer that we get the choice on who/what to pursue contact with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would prefer that we get the choice on who/what to pursue contact with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30961188</id>
	<title>Re:Sufficiently Advanced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264855380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space, so if you can't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.

</p><p>Now imagine that civilizations typically switch to non-broadcast and/or digital signals (the latter, if efficiently compressed, will "sound" like random noise) within a century of inventing radio. Instead of spheres, space will be full of 100 light year thick "shells" of easily detectable signals. So its far more likely that we find ourselves in one of the gaps between shells.

</p><p>Of course, the Drake equation/Fermi paradox ideas are only plausibility arguments, make all sorts of assumptions about how civilizations develop based on extrapolation from one data point (us).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space , so if you ca n't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd .
Now imagine that civilizations typically switch to non-broadcast and/or digital signals ( the latter , if efficiently compressed , will " sound " like random noise ) within a century of inventing radio .
Instead of spheres , space will be full of 100 light year thick " shells " of easily detectable signals .
So its far more likely that we find ourselves in one of the gaps between shells .
Of course , the Drake equation/Fermi paradox ideas are only plausibility arguments , make all sorts of assumptions about how civilizations develop based on extrapolation from one data point ( us ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine a sphere of radio transmissions expanding at the speed of light from every civilized planet - sooner or later these are going to permeate space, so if you can't detect anything it starts to look a bit odd.
Now imagine that civilizations typically switch to non-broadcast and/or digital signals (the latter, if efficiently compressed, will "sound" like random noise) within a century of inventing radio.
Instead of spheres, space will be full of 100 light year thick "shells" of easily detectable signals.
So its far more likely that we find ourselves in one of the gaps between shells.
Of course, the Drake equation/Fermi paradox ideas are only plausibility arguments, make all sorts of assumptions about how civilizations develop based on extrapolation from one data point (us).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960198</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_30_0650250_20</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960768
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_30_0650250_75</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_30_0650250.30960276
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_30_0650250_77</id>
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